game-discussion

[muted verge]

Yeah I will be the first to say they don't make the best balance choices at all. however we think as players they think as devs. So from their perspective it could just be a test.

[graceful swallow]

Whats with people calling an OPINION an attack on something or someone grow TF up lmao

[formal moon]

We had a healthy 40-60k pop for a long time. Then GC ruined everything

[formal moon]

Lmfao

[graceful swallow]

They keep testing us and we'll leave, over %50 player base has, thats the problem.

[muted verge]

Yeah bro they straight have admited to doing that. Nothing is set in stone. Idk why players see a change throw their hands up and say its over. That's is one of the many reasons they desperately needed a test server so it's not such a shock to the players. Now that they have that done hopefully things get better with balacning.

[signal osprey]

Possibly but a solo mode was inevitable. My personal experience my friends wouldn't play as much as I do and I'd rather not group with randoms.

[warped raft]

i did not see the pop decline steadily until they started messing with the rotations over and over again, back and forth is why so many left. we had a core group of 6 that played pretty much every day, we never saw all these empty lobbies that kept coming up in some of these decisions and once they started messing with the rotations my group went from 6 to me. they all left as everyone else was cause they were sick of not being able to play the maps they wanted. which was the general consensus at the time. THAT is when we started to see all the empty lobbies. not before that

[graceful swallow]

I've wanted them to have a stable branch of the game where they could test ideas out for a week or 2 before adding it to main game, yet they waited till now and it might not be enough is sad.

[graceful swallow]

the problem is people are seeking out dead lobbies, I'll admit I was one of them, Its just an aspect of the game.

[muted verge]

Yea maybe it's to late for dark and darker or it's just dark times. End of wipe is always like this for these types of games. We won't know for sure until the first week wipe is over.

[hardy harbor]

can someone confirm if we have a talent tree yet?

[warped raft]

perhaps during the ranking rewards fiasco but, before that it was moving along nicely, only time we ever saw a lobby that was low was during off morning hours and usually in a region way outside our time zone, which would be expected.

[graceful swallow]

One thing I think might improve the game is a locked boss door on a timer, I hated PvP in hell trying to boss it's what made my mates leave.

[brisk mason]

Idk its the thing that makes hell pvp very fun imo. Using boss to your advantage, playing smart,

[graceful swallow]

Talking about other server of course NA servers will have some players, but I played on dead servers and they were ridddled with gold farmers

[graceful swallow]

But how is it playing smart when the boss has 1 shot mechanics, to focus your attention on a player while trying to dodge a boss is aids, If it wasn't for those id have no problem with PvP.

[warped raft]

on that note, they need to stop blanketing all of the decisions as a whole for all the regions, some are just not going to have as big of populations as others and if you put them all together like that the weaker pop choices are going to make the stronger pop areas suffer. they should have this data by now and lumping us all together is not going to work.

[muted verge]

@warped raft I agree I think the rotation and late wipe, no major balance patch, and no marketplace killed the population. Players went to other games because this one just became a waiting game. Now pretty much everything Listed will be changing at wipe. I'm thinking 25k returns pop grows over time. How long it lasts is any one's guess. Now if we fail to increase population or it falls off fast. It's still got a chance with steam release. They just need to make a good game.

[brisk mason]

I mean being able to avoid those is playing smart.

However the one shot mechanics are pretty stupid and overall the bosses aren’t designed great imo

[graceful swallow]

They made warlord absolute aids, can 1 shot with any attack if your weak.

[warped raft]

im sure there will be a surge for the 1st week maybe but, the same problem will be staring everyone in the face when that novelty wears off. no one wants to be forced into playing maps they dont want to play cause they dont want to roll randoms or have the luxury of always having a group to play with. solo players are by far the largest demographic due to this reason alone. taking away the freedom of choice "hence fucking with the rotations yet again" is going to cause another exodus. the group ive played with has already stated they dont plan to come back cause the map rotations lol

[muted verge]

I doubt there will be any map rotations after the wipe. Simply no need for it because they will have the numbers.

[brisk mason]

Yeah, very fun boss, but you just get 1 shot or slowed for 30 seconds then one shot if you make a mistake.

The bosses should be harder but less punishing for mistakes making you have to bring heals to heal up the damage. Right now there is just insta kill or un avoidable dmg mechanics

[graceful swallow]

I think they said that, they hope start of wipe their will be enough player base for it, but thats TBD.

[warped raft]

dude just stated last night in the q&a the maps will be queue locked. so solo is gc, duo will be ice map and trio will be crypts/inferno. granted its not an actual rotation but if you are solo you are now forced to either roll a random or go in at a huge disadvantage being 1v2 or 1v3, which was the whole reason they even started a solo queue in the 1st place cause more than half the player base needed it. same for duo, if you want to play crypts you will have to roll a rando or take the 2v3 hit, which sure some may like that but, i highly doubt it will be enough to fund this game when the rest leave

[graceful swallow]

Exactly

[ebon stag]

They'll be lucky to hit 15k

[muted verge]

Yeah but at least it's not rotation. It's not perfect but it never will be. I played 1v3 all the time you or 1v2. I despise GC hate that map delete it. It's the hardest map and they make it solo. Anyway being out numbered does feel bad and I know it sucks to find randoms. That's why you should always add the cool randoms and eventually make a squad.

[warped raft]

when the maps were any queue at any time we had a solid 20k players 10k in 10k lobby and IM even stated at one point they were happy they had a strong 10k core and they could work with that, then someone decides to play with the rotations and map queues and that 20k just started to decline and is pretty much were it is now i believe thanks to mucking with it in the 1st place. they made a bad choice and instead of fixing how they knew they could they kept changing the fundamentals in the wrong direction which in return left this core group we have now of about 2500. these are the hardcore players that will most likely stick around until the sunset is announced. 2500 will not be enough to fund this game.

[warped raft]

if only everyone felt this way but they dont and most likely never will, they will just go play something else

[graceful swallow]

Like I always thought boss mechanics should be based off a class comp, like you would need x amount of healing and x amount of magi/phy dmg, maybe CLEANSE a debuff, but nah we get one shot phase's.

[brisk mason]

I feel like they should all be doable with any comp.

[warped raft]

and yes 1v3 or 2v3 can be fun but it needs to be a choice not forced. this will drive people away as we can all see over this last month of them taking away peoples choice.

[formal moon]

Constant bad changes

[ebon stag]

They don't even have the population to support multiple queues let alone a test server with multiple queues to get usable data. Live server IS the test server.

[formal moon]

People will be like. Ya they have a record of constantly failing. They can't fail again

[formal moon]

Been saying this

[warped raft]

they did until they stuck their foot in their mouth, they made a bad choice taking away that freedom and this is the outcome

[formal moon]

By the time rank came out. We started to have to many lobbies

[graceful swallow]

Thats what I liked about early DnD, PvP didn't happen immediately and you didn't die in one shot so if you made a mistake you could survive to make another play at PvP, now its you send it or run.

[ebon stag]

Yea, it's never going back up. There will be a slight bump and it'll be dead again within 1-2 weeks most likely.

[formal moon]

This is wildy untrue

[muted verge]

Yeah it's probably a money issue as well. I could see it costing more if solos had the freedom to pick any map.

[graceful swallow]

When did you start playing?

[formal moon]

This game has potential, devs are inexperienced

[formal moon]

Pt 1

[graceful swallow]

Then you experienced being able to 1v3 if you played smart right?

[formal moon]

Yes

[warped raft]

yea sadly they did not anticipate this soon enough. i guess they were not expecting to lose 80% of their core player base that fast. im sure the scrambling is going on big time in their offices then with a bunch of them being sick on top of it, i would not want to be working there right now lol

[wicked nest]

What's with the skill issue whining

[formal moon]

It's bad leadership tbh

[warped raft]

and for the love of god, get a better PR guy. someone who can speak plainly and actually knows what the fuck is going on and can answer questions. its like they stuck beaker from the muppets into the spotlight and said ok adlib

[graceful swallow]

They left their company for this game they had so much confidence, now they struggling to keep afloat, like I know nexons not great BUT, they have the resource's, or mabye this is what nexon planned?

[formal moon]

This statement doesn't have any thing to do with my statement.

They left nexon and nexon ruined their day. However, nexon didn't make them make bad choices

[wicked nest]

Where do you people get this idea that the game is dead 😆

[muted verge]

Worst cast this is just dark times for dark and darker. So long as they cross the finish line with a great game no matter the player base. Steam release is going to be wild. Imagine all the noobs and how fun it will be to watch them figure the game out all over again.

[graceful swallow]

I know right I tried to watch Q&A but GOD I couldn't understand what he was going on about, literally was squinting to see OnePegs notes.

[quaint mesa]

the game doesn’t need a rating, you need gear speed, because in every duo game you come across two people dressed completely in gold and just run around the dungeon and kill everyone, don’t loot anyone and enjoy the meaningless gameplay.

[formal moon]

I like to dream as well. It's unfortunate we don't live in a dream

[olive mural]

Will I be losing all blue shards once the season timer ends or can I save them up?

[graceful swallow]

Or they chase you down and lot your entire green kit lmao

[muted verge]

such a glass half full kinda guy. Don't let your dreams become memes. lol

[warped raft]

no matter the player base? cmon man, the player base is what will fund this game. the player base is what matters more than anything lol

[wicked nest]

I guess we just got bots talking amongst themselves these dudes are barely even replying to each other let alone answering real questions

[formal moon]

I haven't, I just don't go to the strip club expecting love

[graceful swallow]

Damn flys in chat

[tulip ridge]

The game is in early access. Its where drastic changes and limit testing need to happen. Once the devs figure it out and get the game polished, itll be the next big thing. Last epoch that is popping right now was in early access since 2019, it can take time to find the right balance and changes to polish a game. Especially a small team like ironmace that had most of their resources alocated to a lawsuit. Patience 💪🏻

[graceful swallow]

How long can they keep the game runnig is the question thow, they said they are paying more than they want on servers ATM

[formal moon]

This is cope unfortunately. A year ago, ya I agree with you. However, this many bad choices this long into it. Just tells you they're stuck pandering

[tulip ridge]

Last epoch had less than 4k players for 4 years before it got up to 300k. It can take time

[formal moon]

Last epoch made progressive choices that made the game better. IM has literally done the opposite

[tulip ridge]

Yes cause they had 4 years

[graceful swallow]

HOW MANY SERVER WERE THEY RUNNING? each game has a differnt cost, you can't lump a co-op game with a multiplayer PVP game.

[muted verge]

Nor do I. There's 120 plus million steam users. Just do the math on crazy steam release could be.

[warped raft]

they still need money to do all of this and without players the money will not last, so these decisions still matter as to how they impact the player base. there is nowhere near enough communication going back and forth with the community outside of a few streamers that we have to rely on for the table scraps and vicariously get our info. there is now a test server that is still not being utilized like it should be, for example all the stuff they are releasing coming up should have been tested perhaps, i mean that is what we are paying for right?

[formal moon]

Lmfao, bro she asked for my number. It's real, I swear

[tulip ridge]

Lets see how the state is after the wipe

[formal moon]

You're literally the picture of the guy on cope support @muted verge

[wicked nest]

This current discussion is an empty calorie meal 😆 tf are these dudes going on about

[warped raft]

like we have a choice, which is kind of the problems in the 1st place lol

[graceful swallow]

Fly goes BZZZZZZZ

[wicked nest]

Sorry just that flies are attracted to shit like this discussion 😆

[muted verge]

You do realize blacksmith is like a strip club in BFE and we already bought tickets along with 50k others. Where steam is like vegas. All they gota do it cross the finish line lol.

[formal moon]

Yes, but in BFE you can get away with being sketchy. On the strip there is way more competition with more money. So the product and how it's delievered actually matters

[muted verge]

They have no direct competiont. I played the others and they're lighyears away for dark and darker.

[ebon stag]

It is pretty clear that everything started to fall apart for them when they released ice cave and went to 3 layer system on ruins. It was all down hill from there.

[formal moon]

With the exception that darker and darker is getting worse and worse. So even if the competition isn't that close. They just don't need to be bad

Well the 3 layers implmentation has been laughably bad at it's best attempt

Not to mention, the game is getting more and more new player unfriendly. Which will definitely reek havoc on steam

[ebon stag]

2 layer is max it can support. 3 layer is just not feasible.

[formal moon]

Definitely is, you just need a large first floor with many points of interest and static ups and downs

[ebon stag]

Nobody wants to spend 45 minutes to then die in less than 10 seconds

[wicked nest]

I'm losing brain cells reading this lol

[muted verge]

Dips and growth are just part of EA if you ask me. The real quesiton is do you think they have what it takes to compelte the game. After the whole nexon deal I think they're in it for the long whole. Most would have thrown in the towel. All we can do is let them cook, taste it and spit out what we we don't like. Trash is going to be full by the end of this wipe for sure.

[formal moon]

Just there is a lot of hope in this. You're talking about a drug fiend saying they're going to get sober while high and praising them for the attempt. All just to let them go back and continue the cycle.

[wicked nest]

I should've known
They're redditors

[formal moon]

In both circumstances there is no answer, but just too keep chalking up to EA is kinda ridiculous at this point

[muted verge]

I mean they're goal is to make money at the end of the day. They have no reason to not listen to their player base aka ppl holding money. I think there's a valid argument that they listen to much to streamers. At the end of the day it would be dumb to ignore us. I don't think they're dumb.

[covert pilot]

idk but this game is unplayable after week 1 the only player base left is try hards no in between or noobs. ill give it another chance this wipe but until steam release i dont think its going very far

[undone belfry]

i played this last entire wipe and had fun, minus the last 3 weeks were a waste of time. it has taken far too long to wipe IMO

[formal moon]

It looks like they're holding multi classing back so everyone has a chance to level. This wipe a lot of ppl will probably rush maxing a few classes, just incase multi classing drops the same time

[muted verge]

yea it would make no sense if just said screw it lets "do it live" after just making a test server. I expect to play with is there first.

[undone belfry]

the time capped quests will be good to steady the market and keep golds from being too early.... I do wonder what % of the player base has actually killed bosses? some PvE might be too hard? idk Edit PvE

[formal moon]

probably the most ever, but traditionally you could get top 100 leader boards with a single kill. in many of the pts

[undone belfry]

ive never killed a hell boss. you are saying they are worth thousands of AP? that seems unrealistic

[ebon stag]

Bosses are easy. The issue for bosses is the time investment getting to them to practice them. I've never done hell bosses for this reason alone.

I can't be asked to play all that time to get to an inferno boss to die basically immediately the first few attempts at least

[undone belfry]

yeah i havent been able to convince my friends to play for 30 min to make it to boss to get 1 shot to practice lol

[mental mauve]

this was the worst news, worst decisions made, full of delays and absolutely disappointing dark and darker dev QA so far. i get it, people are sick and things got delayed but, my god the entire game goes in absolute shit direction.

[ebon stag]

It was miserable enough learning GC bosses running across the map over and over

[formal moon]

that's just the nature of the game

the funny thing is. they could have just wiped did some minor changes and said working on updates

[undone belfry]

1000% agree

[formal moon]

they could have been doing that since like pt4 and we'd have a better game if they just didn't update and actually worked on the game

[ebon stag]

Streamers needed control though bro

[undone belfry]

maybe ill go practice troll, oh wait yeah..... fuck solos right?

[ebon stag]

They had to do something

[formal moon]

streamers have nothing to do with, it's all the whiny babies in here and on the new forums

[mental mauve]

browhat is the point of this new things? now introducing 100 lvl talent system. for testing purpose its gonna be already busted everybody can tell, but now they attach it to lvl 100? how exactlty are they gonna do mass test for this

[ebon stag]

It's 100% lead by streamers and their brain rotted followers

They wanted content. Content content content. They got it.

[formal moon]

nah, people were QQing in this chat long before anyone knew about thos streamers

[digital dock]

I QQ about their needing to be more outlets for trash talking in the game, but the opposite happens. Maybe i should become a golden streamer like a realy boy.

[formal moon]

it's about the ratio

people would be in here in droves crying, back when the game had people

[brisk mason]

i don't think a single streamer wanted training.

also if you think streamers are what "control" the devs teams decisions your so lost

[ebon stag]

Touch grass bro

[formal moon]

The dev's created the game discussion and suggestion channels and it's been down hill from there

[ebon stag]

It'd just be reddit and elsewhere as it is already

[formal moon]

every indie game that succeeds. Does not listen to player feedback until the game has been made

[ebon stag]

They need to hire Nexon to consult

It's the only way. Nexon made this game. These guys just stole it 😂

[formal moon]

putting more effort in to a discord than the bots, mods, announcement, and patch notes. Is fruitless

[rugged trellis]

when is the wipe?

[digital dock]

immediately following evacuation, followed shortly by another wipe to just be sure

[wooden thunder]

March 15th by end of day GMT

[rugged trellis]

@wooden thunderty:)

[wicked nest]

I thought it was tomorrow ? Where are you guys seeing these updates ?

[wooden thunder]

There was a Q&A last night and they mentioned it got pushed 1 day and is March 15th "by end of day GMT"

There's a transcript of the whole Q&A here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zU6bkVFXCY1z6qn39ZOL5_DEEInfhf_k77ssgu8ebjE/preview

[wicked nest]

Most of it seems fairly reasonable I don't see why there's so many complaints

[wooden thunder]

Definitely some W's coming out of it, but the players were hoping for "better" changes after waiting 4 months for wipe.

The Multiclass system they will experiment with has high risk of being too polarizing and others are concerned they could harm the game with it in place.

I'm one of those too, but need to remember it's early access and they are trying things. The game is and will still be fun, just different.

[elder vault]

Multiclassing is my only complaint. I guess it remains to be seen how it's implemented, but the way it's explained makes it sound like we're going to eliminate class identity and inevitably reduce the game down to 3 or 4 meta builds.

[wooden thunder]

^ that's my concern as well

[elder vault]

Which at that point why even introduce new "classes". Just introduce new perks and skills to unlock.

[wooden thunder]

When I want to be beefy and bonk, I play Barbarian. When I want to be weak, sneaky, terrible, and backstabby I play Rogue.

I don't want to have to think further than that with a mixture of a Barbrogue lol

[elder vault]

Not to mention this practically throws months of class balancing and tuning into the blender.

[sleek holly]

i have, we usually get 3 attempts in a 2.5hr session. those attempts last 3 mins at most.

that sorta gameplay loop is what's keeping the casuals from catching up to the streamers imo

[wicked nest]

I get that but I'd rather them take their time and push solid updates rather than sloppily push out garbage too many players are content with being the beta testers in broken games that have full releases so they cry in EA games when they don't release a ton of content

[wooden thunder]

For sure. They did mention they want to focus more on quality and slow down a bit.

Hoping $$ isn't becoming an issue for them... and if so, hopefully they add some enticing items to the shop so I can support the company more.

[wooden thunder]

This one is tough. It was brutal practicing Cave Troll because most of my time was waiting for the next match and getting to him.

I will say though, felt AMAZING when I finally beat him though

[sleek holly]

yeah, now put a couple dungeons worth of PvE and PvP in your way before getting to him.

not to mention random bosses, so maybe you've watched videos and are learning one in particular, only to never get to practice that one.

[wet plinth]

I also feel that multiclassing is a big step in the wrong direction and will make the balancing of the game next to impossible to manage.

Noone literally noone asked for a Rougelite RNG grind mechanic to possibly get broken perks from other classes?

We are constantly asking for stronger class identities and less rock paper scissor balancing.

I really worry this will be the change that makes people permanently give up on the game.

[wooden thunder]

Yeah, that's why it's tough. Making it simpler to practice and get to adds convenience for all, but does lower the satisfaction in beating them.

[wicked nest]

Easily they can add a cosmetic system like hell divers 2 did no gameplay benefit just cool outfits you can pay to get or get over time just playing normally

[plush stratus]

If multiclassing happens this game is dying 100%

[wooden thunder]

One thing I'd echo here is it's an "experimental feature" in this new wipe, so it's by no means permanent. Worse case scenario, they learn and heavily change how it's structured or go in a different direction altogether.

[wooden thunder]

I'd buy into that to support them

[sleek holly]

"Rougelite RNG grind mechanic" couldn't have said it better myself.

RNG is a great way to bring replayability to any game, especially solo or co-op games.

In a game like this, PvP is what makes it unique and replayable. Nobody was sitting here thinking "ah if only I had more to grind for so I could be at a bigger advantage compared to players with less time to grind"

[wicked nest]

I don't get why add an experimental feature isn't that what the test server is for

[wicked nest]

We're talking about cosmetic if you don't want to grind don't worry about it

[wet plinth]

A experiment or not I already see how it's gonna damage the game, they've just made to many bad moves in to short of a timeframe, casual players are losing faith

[wooden thunder]

I hear ya. Would have made sense to go to the test server first, but those environments are usually for ironing out bugs, not gameplay. So the real experiment is in PROD/LIVE and observe how the playerbase as a whole react/interact with the feature

[sleek holly]

multiclassing is not cosmetic. Check the msg I replied to, we're talking about multiclassing and the RNG of which perks you'll have access to on other classes.

[wicked nest]

In the message you sent there was no reply my bad

Nvm I'm blind double my bad

[sleek holly]

np i thought i was trippin too lol

[wicked nest]

I think what the player base needs to do is help try and get it back on steam to increase the player base

[sleek holly]

Yeah, it's actually hilarious how easily foreseeable the results of this will be, as they've presently described.

Sure, this may not be how multiclassing actually ends up being implemented, but we've gotta admit that the idea they've presently floated shouldn't have ever made it out of closed-doors discussions. It's just not something that should've ever been presented to us as a possibility, let alone actually implementing the dumpster fire.

[wet plinth]

All perks will either be reworked to do barely anything to balance this. Or the game will turn into balanced mess where the luckiest one with the best perks and gear steamroll.

[formal moon]

based

[formal moon]

by reading it there will be no RNG in getting the perk only the reward.

[sleek holly]

Even if they rework perks, that doesn't solve the RNG problem. RNG elements will always provide the most benefit to those who can roll the dice (play) the most.

I just want to be on a somewhat even playing field, gear-wise, without having to dedicate my life to the game. However, I'm relegated to normals in order to do so, and they've stated they want people going to HR.

[wet plinth]

So how's it's explained it you will get 3 random perks from the class to select from. Therefore it's random

[warm moss]

Have to have 2 mastered classes

[sleek holly]

You get a class to lvl 100, you get a single token. That token let you choose 1 of 3 randomly selected perks of that class to teach to another class.

Wanted potion chugger for your fighter but didn't get it? Get back to leveling. How many more tokens will it take? Anybody's guess.

Those with the most time will be able to farm up the meta perks for their other characters.

[warm moss]

So I doubt having a mastered cleric and ranger is gonna roll you with the meditate skill

[wet plinth]

I feel you, they have tried to balance gear for so long and now they shoot themselves in the foot adding another variable.
It's really insane to me

[formal moon]

Pretty sure it's not, it thought that as well. But i rewatched and i don't think that's the case anymore. In either case, it's bad

[sleek holly]

Static attributes was one of the best things they ever did, imo.

However, as we've all known for a while, the game is called "MoveSpeed and MoveSpeedier."

Loose Trousers, Lightfoot boots, any agility helm/chest, are all BiS.

[wet plinth]

It's confirmed.

[formal moon]

I was saying that in the chat when they first mentioned it tbh

[formal moon]

where

[wet plinth]

Multiple times in the interview.
He even mentions vampire survivors level up system.

[formal moon]

Read the text of the ingame gui they put in there. It sounds like that's how the rewards will work. Not the perks

[wet plinth]

3 random perks per token.

You can also gamble to get a 'generic random' perk if you have no other master classes.

[sleek holly]

that in-game class master dude has been there, unchanged, for over a year now. i wouldn't put much stock in the text in-game.

[formal moon]

That's not what i'm talking about

[sleek holly]

ah right from the interview footage they had, mb

[wet plinth]

He walked through how you'll get to choose the perks pretty throughly so I don't understand why you think it wouldn't be the case?

[formal moon]

Because he said you could choose and the in gui that they took time writing explained it better than him fumbling and saying i'm not the details guy

If you're right the implmentation is really bad, if you're wrong it's just bad. There are no stakes here

[sleek holly]

and you only get to choose 1 of those 3, to teach to another class, right?
like maybe you had iron will and potion chugger in your 3 when you got a barb to lvl 100. maybe you want to teach your lvl 100 fighter both of those barb perks, but you would need 2 tokens to do so, so you'll have to pick one of those, and then level up the barb again, and hope that you get the other perk in those new randomly generated 3 perks.

and maybe you don't, maybe you don't see that other perk for 5 more tokens on the barb...

that's gonna be hurtful

[wet plinth]

Yeah,
Like have a barb luck out and get warlocks magic resist perk and run around with 200 free magic resist 😂

I know they said they're gonna balance the perks for this, but just that thought itself proves how crazy strong it can be

[sleek holly]

Yeah, the only way they balance it is to admit some perks are OP and exclude them from the system. Or nerf all perks into the ground, and then classes dissolve, and our rock-paper-scissors balancing goes out the window.

[wet plinth]

There's also not a single perk in the game right now I can see being useful on wizard.
So this is gonna really shine a light on how insanely impossible it will be to balance

[boreal island]

problem is usually things are not generally OP, they are OP within a certain context. And now that everyone can get every perk you might have one that is OP for wizard but doesnt belong to wizard. Do you now nerf the perk because wizard can use it and thereby gimp the original class?

[wet plinth]

I really wish they threw away This idea and just focused on building a skill tree instead, at least that allows for proper balancing and don't include RNG mechanic's

[sleek holly]

Yeah, only other dmg dealing caster in the game is Warlock, and half their stuff is "dark magic" so it wouldn't do anything for Wizard.
Maybe when they add Sorcerer, there will be more magic dmg spell perks from other classe for Wiz.

On that note, Staff Mastery for a BoC Staff Warlock... lol

[wet plinth]

Yikes

[boreal island]

Wizard can benefit greatly from jokester (rogue), bards story teller or w/e that grants will/knowledge and they can use weapon mastery to get bows or something from fighter. Clerics protection from evil is also strong, as is perseverance

[wet plinth]

I don't want to sound rude but every single perk wiz have is ten times better than jokester

[boreal island]

thats wrong

[wet plinth]

Mention one you'd swap out?

[boreal island]

jokester is better than sage by far, and most wizards run sage

[winter pawn]

sword mastery barbarian is going to get yah, you can't hide

[boreal island]

jokester is probably better than quick chant as well, and mana surge

its extremely overpowered tbh, but rogues have even better perks I guess so it might seem bad

jokester shits on warlocks malice also

[wet plinth]

1. Stat over 10% knowledge? I don't know man.

[boreal island]

10% knowledge = 4 knowledge in good gear. Jokester is +2 to all

thats infinitely better

and its for the entire team on top

[wet plinth]

I can see your argument, I'm not entirely sure how the scaling on sage is but if it scale with gear I'd keep sage over it

[sleek holly]

Ignite Wiz with Crossbow Mastery and a legendary xbow might sting a bit

he's just running around, invis/haste/igniting himself, bunch of strength/phys power gear...

[hybrid mist]

if you have 36 know you get 4 cause it rounds right?

[wet plinth]

Cast speed is just to important I'd sacrifice everything else for it personally

[boreal island]

i mean even with 60 knowledge, which would give you +6 knowledge I think +2 to all is better by a large margin

[wet plinth]

I see your point, mostly the agi and vitality makes a great difference.
I guess for solo wiz you might be right

[boreal island]

in group setting you would grant your entire group +2 as well with jokester, I think it just always wins out

[sleek holly]

the fact that jokester stacks. there's really no point in not having jokester on all 3 in a trio.

[formal moon]

it's a tie for rushing rogue or fighter. Fighter is like the king of dippable perks. Where as rogue has a few that would be really nice on another class

[wet plinth]

Silly territory

[formal moon]

since when?

[sleek holly]

we can't act like +3 all attributes is is OP but then give all classes a +2 all attributes to grind for

[wet plinth]

10 Magic healing from cleric on warlock tho

[sleek holly]

since when did it stack? since always? i've seen rogue duos with it, and two jokester icons on each of their buff bars, so i mean, looks like it stacks to me.

[formal moon]

lmfao, it doesn't stack fool. They do that because the range is short

[wet plinth]

I've seen double icons too

[sleek holly]

wanna test it with me? i'm certain i've seen multiples of the icon

[boreal island]

i think jokester has stacked always, i remember it was bugged before and would even stack infinitely when moving in and out of range

[formal moon]

i don't need to, it doesn't stack and never has

[sleek holly]

so quick to call me a fool though

[boreal island]

for sure thats not correct, on release it was bugged and could be repeatedly stacked

[formal moon]

*bugged

[boreal island]

dnno about now I guess, but at some point it did. Well the bug was that movingin and out of range added more and more stacks, but just staying IN range it also stacked with itself

[dull minnow]

anybody tryna bless a cleric w some biss im tryna match my homies gold and i aint got it like that name Grompled

[sleek holly]

i mean it was this past wipe that i saw rogues stacking jokester so, definitely not bugged that was causing that

[formal moon]

because once i heard the theory you were basing your opinion on AND how you concluded your results. I knew

[wet plinth]

So even if it shows double icon only one is in effect?

[formal moon]

yes

[true plume]

shadow runner would be very strong on wizard. so would jokester, story teller, jolly time, robust (+15% hp). but really wizard perks are already insanely strong

[sleek holly]

wrong

it would only show 1 icon if it's not stacking

[formal moon]

shadow runner wouldn't be good on wiz really. Just lose too many otehr good perks

[wet plinth]

Apart from sage as mentioned I don't see myself swapping any out though, they're already so good.

[sleek holly]

who wants to add me in game and prove redacted wrong?

[formal moon]

just take your L.

[true plume]

that's not a balancing issue then -- just means that wizard perks are top notch

[sleek holly]

nah, you called me a fool, a personal insult to my character. not only have you violated the decorum of this discord, but now you have made an enemy for life.

[formal moon]

ok, then go get your proof and give yourself your second L

[wet plinth]

I consider it a class balance thing if certain classes have more options to be played effectively.

Most wizard perks are kinda mandatory right now I feel

[sleek holly]

had to fix those typos that your rage-response caused, huh?

[formal moon]

Yep

[subtle heart]

Been taking a break, has wipe happened yet?? :3

[formal moon]

nope

[wet plinth]

Friday.

[subtle heart]

otayy thank you! Can’t wait to see y’all in the dungeon Friday!🤞

[wet plinth]

Lol the timing

[formal moon]

where is a mod when you need one

[sleek holly]

yikes

[wet plinth]

Anyway mostly wanted to voice my concern about vampire dungeons level up system, night

[formal moon]

the multiclassing system no matter how you slice it. Is a bad idea

[quiet lance]

Dealt with :)

[quasi moss]

when i do the migration over it tells me to log in do i make a new account and then in put that code it gave me

[wicked nest]

Anybody using steam to confirm if that just had a network crash?

[steady cloak]

Good side : Fun to discover | Bad side : everything else ... balance, unability to use your game knowledge to know what the enemy is playing and apply a gameplan to beat him ... Random aspect is just a GIGA grind getting useless stuff until you get the perfect combo, end of the line you'll see the exact same OP stuff everywhere , some class WILL be better by essence without anyway to balance it because they just have better starting skill/stats ... ect ..

[formal moon]

The thing is, it's not gonna be really fun to discover. Some sweat is going to have a lot of them before you and you're going to have grind through getting dunked on by imba classes

[steady cloak]

fun to discover for the first few hour *

[vocal bramble]

if the warlock flamewalks and phantomizeses with the rangers crippling shot perk I think that it will proc the -35% move speed for 2 secs as the flames are hitting the legs. Can chat confirm this?

[random echo]

overall the sentiment about what we know about next wipe feels very grim/sad/bad. people think the future of dark and darker isnt looking very good 😦

[worn jetty]

why is there no auto fill in gold option for traders

[serene mesa]

does the legs thing only applies to ranged weapons??

[vocal bramble]

i dont think so, but i hope so lol

[serene mesa]

I think sprint + smite survival bow ranger will be the new meta... that's the best I could think of

[vocal bramble]

ive got some juicy ideas

[random echo]

sprint poisen weapon surv bow slayer fighter with bard songs

[fluid hornet]

warmaul rouge

[steady cloak]

I've always defended the dev. decision until recently, I actually thought they were on the right track.
But multiclassing and arena feels like big miss :/

Arena feels like them trying to move the "PvP" population out of the Dungeon so they can focus more on the pve aspect which is a very very missunderstanding of what the PvP population "likes". They liked the PvP in the dungeon setting not the PvP system itself !

Multiclassing feels like a weird attempt to a better balanced game. It's true ! Skills are easier to balance in themselve than entire class with specifics skills. But the HUGE downside is that the game will loose their "class identity" ! Having a clerc demon or a warlock archer feels out of place .. It will also hurt the PvP side of the game as you won't be able display your game knowledge in fight knowing what to do vs each classes

it's the very first time I'm not confident in the dev. vision of the game :/

[serene mesa]

I have confidence that they are going to rework perks and skills in a way that will make multi classing not stupid but I wouldn't be too surprised if they just went in raw

[steady cloak]

That's what i'm saying, balancing WILL actually be easier (weirdly enought) but it will hurt the game way way more in the process

[limber badge]

I hope it doesn't destroy class identity to the point that you see a fighter and wonder what 80 combinations he may have

[fluid hornet]

have any of you heard what was said about it in the qna?

[steady cloak]

well in the interview he used the exemple of a perk allowing you to use a longbow ... so I guess class identity will be no more

[serene mesa]

classes will still be identified with their armours but other than that it's open season

[fluid hornet]

its been said roughly that its going to have a system that makes it so you will get a single token which lets you unlock 1 additonal skill/perk

[steady cloak]

at random between the other class perks yes

[limber badge]

I mean even that is getting muddy
I saw a tricky warlock the other day pretending to be a barb. No shirt, viking helm, the works.

[steady cloak]

also .. a class is only 4 perks. 25% of your identity will be a perks from another class

[fluid hornet]

it can either be done by using the generic skills the trainers provides or by leveling up the charaters to (100) a level to unlock those class specific skills and perks. and it was mentioned they want/are implenting a system which is kinda like a softcap so you cant just grind 100s of tokens by spending 20 hours grinding each day

[vocal bramble]

DaD class tier list multi-class
Main Class - Skills

S Tier - Fighter, Bard

A Tier - Cleric, Wizard, Warlock, Ranger

B Tier - Barbarian

C Tier - Rogue

D Tier -

DaD class tier list multi-class
Sub Class - Perks

S Tier - Fighter

A Tier - Barbarian,

B Tier - Warlock, Ranger, Rogue

C Tier - Cleric, Wizard

D Tier - Bard
Discuss.

[serene mesa]

why tf are bard skills S tier

[fluid hornet]

also keep in mind they dont want 4 month wipes it will be a fair bit shorter so its very unlikely you will get all of them, so it opens up a path to like infinite repeatability if done right

[serene mesa]

nothing in the game beats sprint + second wind but I think some classes have better things than bard songs

[vocal bramble]

imo i think bards music buffs make him an ideal base kit to then branch off of for off set perks from other classes

[steady cloak]

I'm so hype forcing myself to play a class I hate again and again and again just to have a random chance to get the right perks on my main class ..

[ebon stag]

We need to know FOR SURE if we get the 4 standard perks + as many as we can grind.

[fluid hornet]

its still 4 perk slots and 2 skill slots but you can unlock other perks and skills

[serene mesa]

fighter also has like 100 shit skills and you have a random chance of getting one of those by accident

[fluid hornet]

1 of 3

[serene mesa]

so it will be risky multiclassing fighter

[vocal bramble]

yeah not a fan of the gacha system

[serene mesa]

imagine getting shield slam taunt and adrenaline rush on your wizard xD

[vocal bramble]

[serene mesa]

just let us pick sprint damnit

[fluid hornet]

thats the thing as much as people are like its going to be crap most are not going to get all perks and skills, its a ridiculus amount of grind depending on how its implemented.

[steady cloak]

Randomness is a lazy way to make the game artificially "longer"

[fluid hornet]

@serene mesa just play fighter then

[grand shadow]

Is this game good yet?

[serene mesa]

NO! I'm going to main sprint + smite ranger and there's nothing you can do

[ebon stag]

Restricting maps is a lazy way to save money on server costs. They do be doing it though

[fluid hornet]

servers costs right thats the reason

[vale shell]

Perks not abilities lol

[grand shadow]

No, increasing hp is the laziest way

[fluid hornet]

def not the large amount of people who complained about empty lobbys, and about every change they have tried in an early access game

[grand shadow]

Wait a minute, where are all the pve players that wanted empty lobbies? I thought this is what the timmies wanted

[steady cloak]

In the interview he said "SKILL/perks" multiple times + sdf used the demon (which is a skill) barbar. So I would not be surprise you could also get skills

[azure moat]

Okay, what I dont completely get, is why we cant get the map rotation stuff fleshed out to an agreeable point. I get that everyone goes ruins and it kills most other maps when its in rotation but is there another way to solve that?

[fluid hornet]

oh yeah then they changed it to have more people in lobbies, and what happened more complaints

[azure moat]

True

[grand shadow]

Is that really all they did though?

[fluid hornet]

they tested things too see what works and what doesnt in a game which clearly states its undergoing testing, so when something doesnt work perfectly or such and people just complain due to a factor they dislike rather than looking at the reasons said thing is happening. Its not like they are going to do nothing and hope it gets better if they cant find the issue they cant fix the issue

[steady cloak]

they explaind the reasoning :

• Cost them money to have too many Q with non-full lobby
• They don't have the man power to flesh out all the map variation depending on team size. So they prefer to limite it for now so they can focus their workload on less stuff

[grand shadow]

Yea we’re all good with them switching things up and testing especially between seasons but why isn’t this game getting a surge of casual players that wanted pve? I’m starting to think they shouldn’t be catering to the casual crowd…

[azure moat]

Appreciate you 🙂 I watched through bits and pieces.

[grand shadow]

That’s how I felt the last 3 seasons ever since they ruined bard

[fluid hornet]

well thats the thing, said casuals are a major way for a game to survive and thrive. bcuz there are so many more casuals than their is giga chad top players

[grand shadow]

It sucks not having a class you really enjoy

[steady cloak]

your mixing 2 things here. i'm saying it's awfull to be force to play a class you hate while having one you LOVE just because you need it to make yours better ...
You're lamenting yourself on the past strenght (OP-ness) of the class you like

[zenith fractal]

thats kinda where im at, i feel like rogue is in a bad spot, tm warlock is rough, bard feels bad. I'm saying this cause mid gear, and get gud or w/e

[steady cloak]

which is fine btw. Just not what I was saying

[grand shadow]

Not the OP-ness, they literally made it less fun. I would prefer they nerf the class to the ground and make it fun again and I’ve listed all the ways they could easily do that

[woeful plume]

Who believes that the test server is more difficult than the live servers?

[velvet shard]

No one knows how much you’ll actually have to play the class you dislike

[sage flower]

Stair Exit was fuckin bugged when i tried to leave and it wouldn't let me leave the dungeon in crypts. Lost a metric ass load of loot cause a barb corner fucked me as I tried to leave the bugged exit

[steady cloak]

level 100 (which you are right we don't know how long it will takes)

[raven sundial]

who can sell me a kumas on marketplace

[limber badge]

Are you sure it wasn't taken already lol

[rare oracle]

Bard having one instrument would be a welcomed improvement imo. Current gets so tedious to me switching between all of them, can have skins etc to use diff instruments you like/ earn to the same effect.

[vale shell]

Did these idiots really push wipe back further

[signal lagoon]

I am not very happy with the updates, lack of playable zones, and lack of new features. Am I the only one?

[swift trail]

when is the podcast?

[grizzled carbon]

when WIPE

[static pike]

When is the next whipe ?

[outer scaffold]

THE 15th

[swift trail]

friday evening gmt

[vale shell]

Dogshit devs

[outer scaffold]

thats crazy

[grizzled carbon]

thanks!

[ebon stag]

More delays to come. Tune in at 9pm

[odd moth]

does anyone know if debuffs count as removables for the spell predation, spell? it says buffs so ive assumed that so far but was curious if anyone knew about debuffs

[sage flower]

Considering I walked up the stairs to a very open door, I don't believe so no

[odd moth]

also is that true about more delays?

[limber badge]

You can walk up stairs still, there's no gates in crypts. Were the torches lit?

[jolly hollow]

PLZ BRING BACK ALL MAP FOR LAST DAY

[sage flower]

They must not have been then if that's the indicator for wether they're open or not. Sorry, I'm still new and just so use to goblin cave where rubble blocks it off after someone goes in

[tiny chasm]

Multiclass stuff is gunna be epiccccc

[gilded minnow]

Isn’t wipe like supposed to be tomorrow

[elfin holly]

15th

[limber badge]

All good, I asked because I just wanted to be sure and it's good to know. If the torches aren't lit, and the gate is up, someone else has claimed it.
I do like the rubble indicator more.

[jolly thistle]

why is the wipe pushed back again?

[hard thicket]

Whine and Whiner

[dire cedar]

i just hope it doesn't completely ostracize the casual community anybody who can grind til they are master rank of their class

[tiny chasm]

Thats gunna be the ez part i think

Getting enuf tokens is gunna be the hard part

[dire cedar]

exactly what i mean

sound like the rolls on perks are rng so you can be rolling hella tokens trying to get the skills you want

and balancing is going to be fked for the entire season bc the class system has essentially become redundant other than base stats from what was described

[swift trail]

well you will still have to play all the chars to 100 but yeah eventually it'll come to this

[cursive shuttle]

Wipe is tomorrow right?

[drifting nexus]

delayed.

[cursive shuttle]

When did we see that it was delayed?

[drifting nexus]

QnA yesterday

[cursive shuttle]

Gotcha. Do we know how they delayed it for?

I will have to watch the QNA tonight.

[drifting nexus]

It's basically on the 15th now

[cursive shuttle]

Gotcha.

Thanks for letting me know! I appreciate it.

[gleaming token]

Anyone think they will ever allow gear other than garbage back in the normal dungeons again?

[noble bane]

any info on talent tree? because after changes with perks and multiclassing it is going to be difficult to design and balance

[noble bane]

hope they dont unless they find out a way for keeping 20k gear sweats out of there

[lusty rover]

If multiclassing were introduced, the uniqueness of each character would be lost and the balance would be ruined. I'll give up the game when multiclassing comes out.

[noble bane]

it comes out in two days mate

get ready for rupture rangers with poison 🤮

[dusk dove]

What is the actual point of matchmaking penaltys for "leavers"?

Like I already lose my shit

[limber badge]

Quests confirmed to not accommodate for solos. RIP solo players.

[boreal island]

for nakeds fishing for a game

[dusk dove]

ah okay, never knew this. I just went in barebones and chose wrong spells, so I wanted to leave and rechoose.

[sudden aspen]

It’s norms for a reason. If you want to bring in gear there’s this other option called high roller

[peak crypt]

I suicided a lot of my crypts quests early on in this wipe.

Random matchmaking still a pipe dream, lol. :(
Legit looking forward to that to play more trios.

[limber badge]

Yeah I mean I guess it will just be a extra adventure of...extra danger

Guess it would feel less bad if I could solo queue the crypts like before

[peak crypt]

They gotta bring back rotation at the very least.. locked to GC is such a drag.

[limber badge]

Agreed. Perhaps we'll have to quest and die together sometime

[peak crypt]

Ign is Oil

[limber badge]

Ayo wtf that's pretty dope lol

[peak crypt]

Haha i logged on early

[limber badge]

Mine is SunnyRustles, because I'm uninspired

[tropic ivy]

so when's the wipe

[sweet grove]

Is the wipe at the end of the season? (21hours)

[limber badge]

No, was pushed to the 15th

[slender flare]

why was it pushed back

[formal moon]

bag fumbling

[lunar carbon]

ghost king jump doesnt go through phantomize does it?

[sudden aspen]

I think it does

[wary pine]

Do you guys worry this game is going to get more grindy like other Korean games?

[muted verge]

What's going to be OP with multiclassing? Lets theory craft under the assumption it's just skills/spells. Since that's what onepeg and devs talked about. I think wiz/ranger is going to be insane. Build a mix of physical damage and magic damage. From the wizard you take ignite, haste, invis. Those fire arrows will be slapping ppl back to blacksmith for the uninstall button!! What build are you cooking? lol

[ocean furnace]

trash multiclassing

[trail dock]

When is the wipe?

[wary fossil]

Gotta love the trash talk when system has not been implemented. Wipe is in 40 hours? but probably delay

[keen jungle]

I’m excited for dark and darker mobile, looks better than pc version already

[lucid perch]

40 hours is a Delay, it's supposed to be 19 hours

[zealous nova]

Supposed to be 14th based off recent talks it's the 15th. Knowingly it's coming Q4 2025

[keen jungle]

Cross play with mobile players when

Can’t wait to play mobile and cross play with pc

[zealous nova]

Alot of people here talking that the game is dead. It's end of wipe, ALL Extraction games lose players at the end of wipe hard. We will be back

[long storm]

TM warlock with cleric perseverance and advanced healer

[zealous nova]

This is what causes them to nerf cleric

[muted verge]

Warlock and cleric fould def be wicked but those are perks and it might be skills/spells. There's mix info on that target so who knows.

[zealous nova]

I'm just scared of the barb, coming out of invis, raging, and shooting fireballs at me

[wary fossil]

you should watch the recent stream. They address a few of these

[muted verge]

lol

[zealous nova]

Oh lord it's coming

[long storm]

you got the link

[wary fossil]

It was on jay and sobad stream

[zealous nova]

I'm a barb, with a lute, slap clarity on my wiz, also spec wiz so it benefits me too, we come out of invis and toss deuce fireball at you while we buff eachother with haste and chase you down with our ignite staff mastery build

[wraith girder]

same. multiclass sounds absolutely stupid. the idea is dumb. the game has so many other compents that could be improved

[gray remnant]

basically all the time balancing was wasted and now they plan to rework and freshly balance over 100 skills and perks at once, love it

[muted verge]

I think the classes need more flavor. I mean most classes are running the same stuff since the old playtests. Now i'm not saying this is the way but they needed more of something.

At first thought it was perks but then I came across this. https://youtu.be/-VyqNXV841A?si=VsZOzd0gy8BQ2s_3&t=622

[zenith hollow]

I would much prefer the idea of subclass, much more than multi class. Just copy from the Player's Handbook of Dungeons and dragons. Let me have a tempest cleric or a college of lore bard or an Eldritch knight fighter

Because let's be real here, everyone is just gonna learn sprint and second wind and become fighter lol just like the actual state of the game rn

[muted verge]

when I heard of multiclassing my brain automatically was thinking sub classes. This multiclass is ambitious wild and who knows maybe they pull it off. I'm doubtful but if it's fun it's fun.

[zenith hollow]

Yeah I'm just worried it's just gonna turn into level fighter for sprint and weapon mastery and second wind

[muted verge]

That would be so funny. Honest as someone who played a lot of wiz. Having sprint would be so much fun. Losing 10 spell would suck though. I'm curouis what they have done with new perks and updated skill/spells.

[zenith hollow]

I have high hopes for the future of this game. But I am unsure about this especially since balance is already a huge issue. I feel like at least with subclasses akin to DND 5e you get added flavor and skills/abilities, but it's still the same class base ya know? I don't want every class to just end up sprinting everywhere

Ya as a bard main I'd have to give up 10 songs also

[muted verge]

Then as a wiz I pull out my long bow when I run out of spells. Use ignite and slay ...never sitting down.

[zenith hollow]

Yeah it's just gonna be wild if it works how it seems it will. I will let Ironmace cook. Here is to hoping they do well

[steel radish]

Just watched the new content update. All the things the player base was hyped for won’t be in game even after getting almost an extra month to work on it all? Hopefully the other content is good but man is iron mace slipping. Here’s to hoping the game doesn’t die completely 🫡

[gray remnant]

just wait till we start balancing for multiclasses. gonna have hundreds of skills and perks to balance simultaneously

[muted verge]

I fthey have fixed stutter and other backend issues that ppl take for granted I' couldn't care less about lack of content. That stuff is a nightmare to fix.

[zealous nova]

I'm a barb, with a lute, slap clarity on my wiz, also spec wiz so it benefits me too, we come out of invis and toss deuce fireball at you while we buff eachother with haste and chase you down with our ignite staff mastery build

[zenith hollow]

Solo buff ball barb is stuff of nightmares

[wraith girder]

agreed. I love the game but after seeing the direction, and the fact that they are stearinga way from the initial ethos has me worried. I would have just like to see balance on classes, improved classes, extra weapons, better circles, better lobbys, more balanced pvp for non gold chads.

[zealous nova]

Have that copy pasta'd, best of this nonesense I can make

[muted verge]

I best most of you like me are prob not a huge fan of the range meta we have been in for awhile. The fact that long bow mastery will be a thing that all classes can grab makes me sad. Side note rogues will be able to have full size long bow and crossbows. Hence prob why they're having to fix ruins again. lol

[zealous nova]

I'm a barb, with a lute, slap clarity on my wiz, also spec wiz so it benefits me too, we come out of invis and toss deuce fireball at you while we buff eachother with haste and chase you down with our ignite staff mastery build

[velvet shard]

Could you at least use good copy pasta if you’re gonna do it

[wraith girder]

i agree with this

[azure shell]

Is there already any document/video with the Q&A from today? (Not yesterday)

[zealous nova]

k

[west junco]

They haven't turned away from any ethos. Everything they have planned, and everything they are doing, was already planned over a year ago. That's why Training was been a "coming soon" placeholder since the earliest play tests.

[keen jungle]

https://youtu.be/kG5Dx5OUfx8?si=2wH2Pc04j-3r_W1k&t=42
Gameplay looks awesome, anybody hyped?

[muted verge]

I forget do bards still have clarity song and does it apply for standing and siting.

[fast sand]

Does anyone have an idea as to when DaD will wipe?

[modest nexus]

I have gameplay recordings, where can I report a player for cheating

[limber cairn]

any key notes from todays dev qna?

[fast sand]

go to one pegs vod on twitch

[glad orbit]

bruh mobile? would they foucs on the pc one first

[gray remnant]

different companies entirely

[proven solstice]

i keep hearing wipe is friday is there any source for this?

[main garden]

wipe is friday

[cobalt cairn]

wym its in like 15 hours

[tardy depot]

Fix for multiclassing problems: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/538970/preserving-class-identities-within-the-multiclass-system

[worn arrow]

Made by Krafton, shouldnt interfere with actual pc game or ironmace at all

[vocal vine]

get ready for double jump rangers with poison rage and sprint is what you meant to say.

[worn arrow]

Smite ranger

[vocal vine]

clerics with smite poison and hand xbow or some shit

[subtle goblet]

BoC+poison ranger, can't wait to dominate!

[pure beacon]

And in the meantime im just thinking about hand crossbow poison ignite wizard

[plain bobcat]

how do I unlock the other dungeons??

man that's so cool.

[vocal vine]

surv bow..

[woeful iris]

Will Multiclass be introduced on wipe or no?

[mortal lance]

i hope never lmao

[tardy depot]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/538970/preserving-class-identities-within-the-multiclass-system

[mortal lance]

eheh

[muted verge]

Sounds like later in wipe when ppl start to get level 100s

[subtle heart]

It’s been months since rogue hasn’t been trash. Let’s change stealth!

[muted verge]

could be for the best time will tell

[subtle heart]

IronMace must have Albert Einstein working for them full time to pull off so many genius decisions in rapid succession.

[muted verge]

Bet...they have the worlds best Tekken player in the world on the combat team.

[subtle heart]

Im okay with them removing stealth but if they don’t buff the rogue in other ways im just gonna genuinely be done with this game

[gray remnant]

Its really disappointing to see Troubadours in here advocating for and defending artificially manipulating the matchmaking que in their favor.

You'd think the dev team would want these people advocating for fair play of their game.

No way we had announcements like this: #📢announcements message
so long ago and yet there are content creators openly advocating for the exact same thing, that was clearly stated is not okay, many many months ago.

[subtle heart]

Im tired of this shit. IronMace has let the toxic streamer community completely trash this game. Why do they have ZERO URGENCY

Listening to .001% of the population so they can bone us more.

Just incredible

[gray remnant]

just wait untill you hear about toddfather and the matchfixing discord. thats a whole rabbit hole of streamer privilege

[subtle heart]

I’m well aware. Of course IronMace doesn’t have the balls to directly address the issue. They have taken a fun, goofy game with a high skill cap and made it a toxic cesspool. Congrats 1k players play the game now

[muted verge]

Gee idk maybe thats why they already came out and said Lobbies are gone. We will direclty be queing for matches. Prob solved or at less easy for sure.

[subtle heart]

“Its end of wipe” is not a good excuse. Tarkov and other games at the end of wipe is POPPING. All the playtests and every other pre-wipe period in this game, was POPPING. Now there are 1k players

[gray remnant]

i wasnt a doomer until i learned that if i had been a streamer then pre-teaming wouldn't be against the rules for me. now i dont have much hope

[muted verge]

Here's the diffrence tarkov is a huge game. We're on blacksmith bro not even steam. So yeah end of wipe is a great excuse. That and the devs realized the 90 day wipe sucks so now we will have 60days wipes plus 2 weeks for changes.

[civic maple]

Man I love this game but I hope they do something about this streamer privilege bullshit.

[subtle heart]

So they had to torture us for an extra 60 days to make sure we are thoroughly miserable instead of buckling down and making changes when they needed to?

It’s not even a 90 day wipe. They had to give us this piece of garbage 2 week pre season that no one care about

Plus an extra day

[muted verge]

Look at it however you want man. I choose to see it as the first season they didn't really know what would be best. Now they do know that was to long. You can't get things right the first time every single time. I'm just glad they realized yeah lets shorten this shit.

[subtle heart]

Yes and when something is CLEARLY wrong and a serious issue maybe address the issue immediately and not 30 days later?

How long were they okay with barbarian meta? An entire season ?

An entire season for the barbs

[vocal vine]

WHen? barbs still get shit on by ranged and pdr fighters andthe same has been true since i started august of last year. Only time a class has run rampant is when i started was landmine rogue fucking everywhwere.

[subtle heart]

They gut classes completely for months at a time with zero sympathy for the people who main that class

Okay cool all fighters and barbs and warlocks. That’s it.

[noble bane]

if you want a good balanced game in the long term you need all this trial and error, let em cook. haters gonna hate

[subtle heart]

Okay and when something is clearly unbalanced what’s the point of letting it stay that way for so long? Just to piss us off?

[noble bane]

data gathering.

[subtle heart]

How much data do they need? Lol. Bullshit excuse

[noble bane]

aight

[subtle heart]

Okay well they can sit around and worry about collecting 500000 hours of data while the game dies. Smart decision!

[muted verge]

idk if you been reading patch notes but balancing took a backseat because there was a way bigger issue plaguing the game. They decided to focus on the back end and fix netcode because the servers and stutter was so bad. That shit takes time and resources. They're a small team, had evil corp cutting their legs off, Worked out of a gym. Just moved to an actual office. Just hired more ppl. Idk brother if it was easy all of us gamers would be producing banger games making millions.

[subtle heart]

Nah it’s been out for a year now they’ve made plenty of sales. Nexon excuse is dried out. Its just excuses, excuses and more excuses

[muted verge]

Sure to you. Shit is real to them.

[subtle heart]

They have had 20+ devs for how long now?

[muted verge]

lawsuit is not even over by the way its just stalled.

[reef dragon]

They're just using a true EA time period as true EA experimenting, game mechanics are going to be developed during this time period. road to 1.0 really

[subtle heart]

It’s been stalled this entire time. They have made a ton of money in the meantime

[subtle heart]

And is that a smart decision when their GAME IS DYING?

[reef dragon]

I personally am excited to see more build options as long as there are trade offs. I trust them to iterate and listen to feedback

[noble bane]

it sound like you have no idea about what u talking about, waste of time and energy

[reef dragon]

Ah i don't think a consistent 8k players is dieing, its not surviving quite well given the last year of struggles

[subtle heart]

I do, all you people in this discord do is bootlick the devs. Time to wake up and smell the coffee

[reef dragon]

it'll take off again when it hits steam, which maybe they're slow rolling cause of massive changes

[muted verge]

Uninstall the game then...You won't because you know the game about to be popping. Everyone like to jump in and doom. Least have the dencey to test their BS in EA before dooming.

[reef dragon]

its just a game and gamers enjoying somnething new on the block, no need for such negativity

[subtle heart]

That’s hilarious if you think this game is ready for a steam release 😂

[reef dragon]

if its not your cup o tea, there are more on steam to download

[mellow charm]

It’s hilarious you been whining like a baby

[noble bane]

LMAO, how long since last time you checked steam?

[subtle heart]

Very insightful addition to the game discussion.

[mellow charm]

@subtle heart like yours are you just shit posting and whining nobody cares

[subtle heart]

Most socially adapted DaD player

[mellow charm]

@subtle heart still crying

[subtle heart]

Can’t think of anything to add to the conversation besides @ me and try to make it personal. You have no brain 😂

[subtle heart]

Get a brain scan dude

[muted verge]

When this game hits steam a platform with 120 million with a completed game that's balanced and smooth. Sky is the limit on sales.

[mellow charm]

@subtle heart I didn’t call you out your name or insult I just said what it was you whining and complaining

[subtle heart]

I hope it does

[worn quiver]

where do i go to make a suggestion?

[muted verge]

There website they won't look at anything here

[worn quiver]

Okay, thank you!

[subtle heart]

I hope it does but I wouldn’t be surprised to see it get destroyed by reviews on release.

[subtle heart]

And you still haven’t added anything to the conversation besides your weird obsession with me. Go touch some grass buddy

[mellow charm]

@subtle heart what have you added to the conversation but just saying the devs make excuses

[muted verge]

it could happen nobdoy knows. I don't think they plan to steam realease until the servers are smooth and they have mutli questing plus maps sorted.

[subtle heart]

I’m assuming you’re either a child or a low IQ zoomer, either add something to the conversation or GTFO

[subtle heart]

The game NEEDS to be in a balanced state before the steam release

[muted verge]

Yea bro I'm sure they're completely aware. Do you know how EA works? Have you played any EA games?

[mellow charm]

@muted verge he just whine and complain

[noble bane]

man you havent said anything yet. you have no idea the ammount of monney they wasted on legal deffense or the time it takes to make changes for a small company. i do not either but i feel like you are the 'i want it now' kind of person

[subtle heart]

I do think you’re making good points though. I’m just worried bro. I’ve played many extraction games and EA games that have died or died immediately on full release. It unfortunately seems like that is the way DaD is trending. Clearly as you can see, I care a lot for the game and from my experience with other games I can see this game is in a very unhealthy spot and it worries me

[subtle heart]

They have 20 devs brother. Are they all in court fighting nexon ?

[subtle heart]

Make sure you wipe the drool off your shirt and keyboard before your parents get home

[noble bane]

they had a single guy working of ALL the mobs till like a month...

[muted verge]

We got a long road ahead of us. I would be worried if we were planning to steam release next month. That's simply not the case though.

[mellow charm]

@subtle heart I’m grown and have my own place, all that projecting are for betas and boys

[subtle heart]

Poor management on their end

[noble bane]

you dont know

[reef dragon]

Yea i think this year is going to be huge and awesome strides for DnD. They had to put massive effort to overcome the legal stuff, but that all seems behind now. They can focus more on systems, and not only content. Gonna be dope

[subtle heart]

And you still can’t add anything intelligent to the conversation. Definitely get your brain checked

[subtle heart]

People complain sometimes a game discussion forum. Get over it snowflake

[mellow charm]

@subtle heart whinning and crying again I see

[subtle heart]

You can’t even spell whining correctly are you sure you have a normal healthy brain?

[noble bane]

dont let em dragg you otherwise ure not better xD

[subtle heart]

Whinning 😮‍💨

[muted verge]

Yeah complain all you want man. I just rather you wait 1 more week to see where we actually are. lol

[subtle heart]

Ill wait, just for you bc you’re able to have an actual discussion without your brain melting

It’s okay to be passionate about a game lol that’s what the game discussion is for. I’m talking shit but I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t care about this game a ton

[neon wind]

I'm excited for multiclassing but I definitely think there also needs to be an incentive to not multiclassing. Someone who sticks to just fighter should have perks or skills that somebody multiclassing fighter cannot have.

[muted verge]

I could tell you like this game and dare I say love. If this game is going down I already decided to go down with the ship. I will test their game for free because I want to this type of extration game. It's wild what we actually have here.

[subtle heart]

I say I’m uninstalling every week and still end up playing a ton so I’ll probably be the last player online one day

[muted verge]

I havent' played since before ice caves patch. I couldn't take the trad chat anymore and achieved what I wanted. So glad they already got the marketplace going and ready for wipe.

[noble bane]

lovely. just be patient guys and if they fail (Spoiler: they wont) life goes on.

[subtle heart]

Mwah 😘

[frank sage]

why cant i play goblins? i just installed it again after beta tests last year

[muted verge]

They disabled it prob wipe is in a few days

[dire cedar]

so what was the point of balancing changes for the last year if we are adding multiclassing... at this point just give us all the same base stats and give us a perk tree bc that's essentially what this is gonna end up being

[muted verge]

Well there's going to a huge balance patch for wipe. once Multiclassing is turned on during the season we will still be picking from those same skill,perks.spells.

[dire cedar]

irrelevant to the point i just made but thank you for your input

[subtle heart]

Goblins has been removed for like 2 weeks now

So has ruins and ice caves been

[muted verge]

ok so the fact that we will be still using the same skills, perks, and spells with the multiclassing system is irrelevant. Go figure

[dire cedar]

correct, if you read what I said again, my point is clearly that i don't understand why classes even exist if we are just going to add multiclassing. Not about what skills/perks were added to the game during its EA so far

[noble bluff]

For the last week or so, they decided to bring back crypts for a classic experience, you choose a confusing time to play again friend~

[mental matrix]

multi classing is not going to be use any perks on any class

[dire cedar]

ok so if you type it correctly next time in a sentence that makes sense i should be able to understand

[mental matrix]

its going to have an RNG element and be locked behind high levels on the class your borrowing from

[noble bluff]

Quite rude Pom xD not everyone is a native English speaker.

[mental matrix]

or have a basic understanding of english and understand the point of the statement without it being a full sentance

[dire cedar]

true but if you are going to type in english

[dire cedar]

you should type correctly

[noble bluff]

Nah dun have to, especially if it pisses you off

[dire cedar]

def not pissing me off, simply stated that what he typed didn't make sense

[mental matrix]

what about it did you not understand

[muted verge]

No way so you're issue is you don't like the class names because after multiclassing you think it changes the class type. WHo the f u c k cares about that ...Jesus.

[dire cedar]

okay guys i'll explain this one last time, the new system is now set up to where you must reach lvl 100 to become a master of a class and pull perks from that class onto other classes that you have mastered

[muted verge]

yes I went over this with you my guy. We're pulling the same exact shit we have been playing with the whole time.

[mental matrix]

Multi-classing will not give you the ability to use whatever perk you desire on whatever class you desire. There will be an RNG element as to what perks you unlock regardless of the original characters level.

[noble bluff]

He's still typing, he's clearly not finished yet, give em some time

[mental matrix]

Therefore there is still a point to the class system as it guarantees the original perks and skills that you have unlocked.

[dire cedar]

okay my point is, why lock it behind rng. if we are adding multiclassing. just get rid of classes in general and just let people put whatever they want on whatever character without having RNG play a massive role in your late game build depending if you roll sht or good skills

[muted verge]

like you understand what I said at first right....idk what else to do

[noble bluff]

Yee I did ^^

[dire cedar]

thank you captain obvious

[mental matrix]

The devs don't want everyone running the same exact meta build that they saw online. They want to encourage new styles of gameplay.

[noble bluff]

Because it gives those who don't wanna multi class a fighting chance.

[noble bluff]

That too, that's a gud point

[muted verge]

Honestly it's going to be kinda fun trying to break the game with builds

[dire cedar]

ah yes, so now only the select few that can reroll and grind characters until they get the new meta build they want. that's a super healthy way to keep a game interesting and pull players in

[dire cedar]

those who don't want to multiclass do not have a fighting chance regardless of what you think

[noble bluff]

Agreed, also if ya looking for any people to play with, I'm almost always free xD

[noble bluff]

Says you. People say clerics can't stand against barbs and shit, and look at me, I'll bonk every multi classer just to spite you and win XD

[muted verge]

i hate to break it to you but most game have meta builds. It's almost unavoidable these days and why constant nerfs/buffs continue through all games..

[mental matrix]

As it is not actually out yet we can only assume there will be a system in place to discourage this. although from experience that may just not happen.

[dire cedar]

i can guarantee you the first time you hit a barbarian with a wizard frost shield you will be off the game for a monthy

[noble bluff]

Nah, I'll keep trying to get better.

You have no clue how stubborn I am.

[noble bluff]

Facts, just look at ANY mmo.

[mental matrix]

I ran a full melee full plate cleric for about a week without dying, dont be a meta slave just play better

[noble bluff]

^^^^^^ war cleric HYPE!

[dire cedar]

regardless, don't understand why classes exist if this was the eventual outcome. people will come to hate the rng system when they roll dosht useless perks for their character and then get stomped by someone who's gotten solid rolls for their own character

[noble bluff]

Can say the same for crafting rng, yet I dun see anyone bitchin about that xD

[mental matrix]

Yeah, there will be some luck involved but most of the high-level PvP in this game is game knowledge and positioning.

[noble bluff]

Facts

[dire cedar]

half the players in this game don't know how to use their keys so you can get away with running any build, however, if you want to play in any decent lobbies with people that have gear that you want. you need to either be in solos or play meta

[mental matrix]

Most of my named v named fights last night ended in only 1 death at most. high level gameplay is really safe and stale right now

[dire cedar]

"there will be some luck involved" is a massive understatement when the MC system is literally only an rng system

[mental matrix]

It wont make any classed worse it will just make some better. at the end of the day im confident to take anyone with base perk fighter, regardless of what perks they have

[muted verge]

Yeah and maybe the rng sucks maybe they delete that part. You're talking like EA game is set in stone and it's all over

[dire cedar]

no I am not, not once have I said it's all over, I'm simply stating adding an rng system that favors people with no jobs is not as fun as just letting everyone have access to everything so they can all build exactly how they want regardless

[noble bluff]

The devs are testing something new out, there will be changes, there will be maybe an entire overhaul of the system, we dun know yet. You're doom posting to doom post. Yes I can see where it could become bad, but honestly this is gonna make end game way less stale and unique

[ebon palm]

so by that logic does gambling favor people with no jobs since they can gamble more often therefore win more often?

or do you need a fucking income source to gamble

[mental matrix]

i mean if you only have to win once then yeah

[dire cedar]

incorrect because you can't gamble with time you have to have money to gamble

[ebon palm]

we're betting it all on black baby

[mental matrix]

11 hands of blackjack away bb

[noble bluff]

500 on Gray!.... fuck xD

[muted verge]

They already talked about a solution for time as well. They just don't want to start with it without data.

[ebon palm]

mind blowing that that one lady won like 150 something craps hands in a row

[dire cedar]

not sure what you define as a doom post, im simply stating that it doesn't make sense to try and add multiclassing if you are going to make it so you can't choose what you want and you have to "roll well" on rng to have a build you want. that sounds like a time sink trap/not fun

[neon wind]

Never played a roguelike have you?

[dire cedar]

i have no problem with meta builds, I have a problem with barring off potential meta builds due to an rng system, that just doesn't sound like a good idea no matter which way you spin it

[dire cedar]

i have played most rogue like games out there, good thing this isn't a roguelike and its a multiplayer PVP game bud

[neon wind]

Sucks for you that it's turning into a roguelike then

[velvet shard]

The multiclassing system won’t even be available for a few weeks but you will be able to level up and prepare for it to complain without even trying something is a tremendous waste of time

[muted verge]

My class design. NO COPY CATS. Requires Wiz master. Ranger learns spell memory. Ranger learns ignite,haste,slow, invis. Build has magic damage add and physical add. Haste, ignite survival bow quick shot you're dead. Getting to close slow or invis.... reposition. GG get on discord or reddit and qq. What's your build?

[dire cedar]

completely irrelevant dialogue to add to this conversation... thanks Jake

[ebon palm]

yeah thanks Jake from State Farm

[velvet shard]

Complaining is irrelevant dialog when it’s not even out yet

[ebon palm]

what are you wearing JAKE FROM STATE FARM

[dire cedar]

read the channel you're in jake, i think you might be lost (someone go get the old man his walker)

[velvet shard]

Khakis

[ebon palm]

thank you

[velvet shard]

Can send proof if necessary

[sudden crow]

i have never seen a more self destructive dev in my life. what compelled them to do multi classing that awards no lives with crazy perk builds?

[muted verge]

I mean it could be fun. prob won't take but a week or two to get a level 100.

[sudden crow]

if you play a shit ton lol. it’s just crazy how strong this game was during playtests and the future it was set up to have, but then IM consistently makes weird ass decisions that almost the entire player base hates. I’m not one of those ppl that complains on reddit like a chump, but damn….

[gray remnant]

if you think thats bad just wait until you hear about the matchfixing discord XD

[muted verge]

What other choices have the made that's bad. Plz don't sam marketpalce because that's a huge W.

[sudden crow]

educate me 😂

[sudden crow]

marketplace is the only good thing they have done. but their balancing fixes are trash asf lol. why was a wiz with a stick the best melee class in the game?

[gray remnant]

private discord server that streamers such as toddfather were in that was being used to create private lobbies full of people of their choosing.. gear was returned to losing teams in some cases

[ebon palm]

a bunch of streamers and other players ingame with lots of gold/gold gear would queue up at the same time to make streamer/gold team lobbies, sometimes giving gear back etc etc. They were told to shut the discord down and did so

[sudden crow]

yikes

that’s not IMs fault tho. just streamers exploiting games like usual

[gray remnant]

its their fault that they didnt ban the people who participated 🤷🏼‍♂️

[sudden crow]

yeah true tbh

but they won’t ban the big streamers tho lol

[ebon palm]

take me back to the days before twitch literally ruined everything it touched

[gray remnant]

but we all know if a small discord with no streamers or known people in it had evidence sent about them they would have all been banned

[sudden crow]

i remember at the end of the second playtest Ken Kenobi literally 1 tapped my entire team with chain lightning on high roller. we were all juiced too hahaha

[muted verge]

Wiz bonk build is just a meme. They have a bunch of balance changing this patch so pull up a chair we have to see what the new new is.

[ebon palm]

it wasn't a meme, it was 1-2 shotting every single class in the entire game

[sudden crow]

generally the new new is more game breaking shit

[static field]

so wipe isnt tonight??

[muted verge]

I know lol but it's prob just due to gear issue. There's a reason they removed legos from crafting..

[dire cedar]

unironically there's been multiple points throughout this games development that saw wizard as the strongest melee class

[ebon palm]

ignite dagger wizard was/is a force to be reckoned with

[sudden crow]

i think wiz will always intrinsically be one of the better classes but the melee OPness is too much lol

[ebon palm]

if you hit your spells and space correctly on wiz youre god tier

whiff a lot of shit? worst class in the game.

[dire cedar]

agreed, i posed the question on why we just don't forgo classes altogether if we are going to end up with multiclassing anyways at that point open up the attributes tree and let players modify their stats/perks all they want through a talent tree rather than having to grind possibly countless hours trying to rng a build you want but i was apparently "doomposting" and "complaining" but i guess posing a question being seen as "complaining" tracks given the state of humans recent track records of being able to have a civil discussion without name-calling or belittling someone else to make your own point stronger.

[ebon palm]

I feel like that type of game design will be incredibly off putting to most new players who don't already have lots of in-game knowledge of meta/map design/etc on how to build their character and will be forced into likely permanent character choices. Probably making people restart characters just because they made a mistake with stat allocation(unless of course they implement a way to reset it all, perhaps a gold cost)

[mental matrix]

That's also the opposite of the direction that the devs want to take the game. They want classes to feel unique and have many different builds be viable.

[valid storm]

So is multi classing give you 4 (3 random 1 chosen) additional perks to what you have or do they replace your 4 perks

[dire cedar]

i believe the exact opposite would happen, it would incentivise players to play to their own playstyle which is what multiclassing is supposed to be. the problem i see is actually one that you brought up, restarting characters. With the way the current system has been described there is an rng based rolling system on how you get your crossover perks, that sounds like experienced and new players alike having to restart characters bc their rng rolls weren't good

[dire cedar]

if they truly wanted every class to feel unique with it's own playstyle then why the fk would you add multiclassing

[mental matrix]

exact details are unknown

[ebon palm]

I'm on the fence about multi-class, in theory it sounds like fun, but it also sounds like a balancing nightmare and with the devs previous track record, I highly doubt they'll be able to hold the reigns steady on that big of a horse.

[valid storm]

Why is everyone crying about balancing then? If it just replaces your perks and 3 are random there shouldn’t be any issue

[mental matrix]

to add a new degree of freedom to builds. this drastically increases the number of possible builds without requiring them to design new perks for each class.

[mental matrix]

because arguing on the internet is fun

[last iris]

BoC hiding barb

[dire cedar]

completely agree, when it comes to balancing we all know the track records, now expand what they will have to balance effectively by a couple magnitudes in terms of variations and the literal countless fking bugs that will spring up due to all of these mixing of perks, they already have a hard time keeping all the perks working as intended on their intended class, lord knows wtf will happen when every class has access to every perk

[valid storm]

I can see this if it’s an additional 4 perks

[mental matrix]

One of the big issues with balance is hide and they already said they are going to rework it which should fix a lot of balance issues with multiclassing

[dire cedar]

dude you can't have both, do you want uniqueness or do you want freedom to build your character however you want, you literally can't have both

[valid storm]

I just want rogue abilities on barb please. Thanks

[mental matrix]

??? you can tho

[subtle heart]

Let each class be its own class. Fuck multiclassing

[ebon palm]

brother that's quite literally the definition of unique, if every class is the same, it's not unique.

[dire cedar]

its not on me to provide the burden of proof here, if you can describe to me how any class having access to any perk is "unique" then im all ears

[mental matrix]

10 perks vs 14 perks, 14 perks gives you more freedom for your build. Those extra 4 perks are random giving you more uniqueness.

By definition you now have more freedom and more uniqueness

[dire cedar]

remzak you aren't realizing that if every single class has access to effectively every single perk

[ebon palm]

I can't wait for everyone to use rogues Hidden Pockets perk because of just how good it is

[dire cedar]

then everyone has the option to run every perk, therefore nobody is unique

[subtle heart]

Wow that’s awesome so unique you don’t even have the choice to choose multiclass perks that are forced on to you.

[mental matrix]

except they wont. the devs have stated that there will be an RNG aspect to what perks you can get

[ebon palm]

they want to add RNG to the perk system? GG dark and darker, it was nice knowing you

[dire cedar]

and here we go back to the rng aspect, dude, you do effectively have access to every perk if you have enough time to do so which leads me back to another point i made at the beginning, if we are going to add this, why not just unbar all the skills from all the classes instead of locking it behind a time sink

[subtle heart]

So what’s the benefit of just playing a normal class vs multiclass? None ? You should be a stronger if you choose to only keep rogue perks on a rogue class, etc. Forcing players to multiclass is redacted

[mental matrix]

"you do effectively have access to every perk if you have enough time to do so" you simply dont know this

[sudden crow]

i like the class system but the skill tree should just be for boosts for that class. like wouldn’t a better level 100 reward be something lowkey busted for each class? (+ vigor for barb, faster action speed for ranger, +PDR for fighter)

[mental matrix]

your assuming that it will be repeatable and not one time unlock per account

[vague shell]

The top 1% no-lifers will grind out hundreds of levels on multiple characters until they "randomly" get meta perks on the right class and then run around and kill everyone like always. But, I imagine that multiclassing will be pretty interesting for everyone else.

[dire cedar]

you are building yourself a bigger hole here dude, okay ill give you a bone here, lets say i can't make another fighter... okay so i play fighter to level 100 and my rng skill rolls fking suck, now the other fighters that have the new meta crossover perks are stomping me, do I a.) force myself to play another class because im now at an inherent disadvantage with others who got LUCKY no skill just LUCK, or should I b.) uninstall and go play a game that doesn't involve rng to a critical element of a pvp multiplayer game

[mental matrix]

Or hear me out, you just play around it and be better.

[dire cedar]

missing the point redundant statement

[mental matrix]

this game is balanced around the 3v3 mode, yes in 1v1s multiclassing will lead to unfair matchups

[dire cedar]

if your excuse for a bad game design decision is "play around the bad rng game design and be better" then you don't deserve to have opinions on the topic

[mental matrix]

but there is already a rock-paper-scissors aspect to solos. in 3s the multiclassing will level out a lot more

im not saying play around bad game design, im saying play around the other persons perks

you just equate the other persons perks to bad game design

[ebon palm]

bad game design perk = Hidden Pockets

[dire cedar]

trios has always had a meta just like solos, once again a redundant statement, the meta builds in trios will most likely be multiclass based builds and therefore rng based builds and therefore a (potential) time sink to obtain

[mental matrix]

nah man i need hidden pockets for my rat cleric build

[barren ingot]

Does anyone know if it’s also possible to take skills from another class? Eg rogue can use BOC? I’m pretty sure it’s only perks but not 100%

[hard thistle]

They already said this is about testing as well, they know it won’t be perfect .

[dire cedar]

redundant statment that still has nothing to do with what i said

[mental matrix]

or hear me out, the meta will be a lot more fluid and have more options because of multiclassing

[mental matrix]

it do but ok

[barren ingot]

I think the good player who have infinite time to grind are going to much more superior over someone with less time because they are going to have all the best perks in the game giving a massive advantage

[hard thistle]

This is assuming they have the patience for this, it may take >20 iterations of a character to get what you want.

[mental matrix]

Yeah they will have some level of advantage but in 3s you can allways just run counter meta

I did the best in this game during the buff ball meta because my squad ran earthquake peacemaking and just killed buff ball teams

[barren ingot]

The best players will put as much time in as needed to acquire the best perks. Mid maxing is gonna be huge this season

[mental matrix]

we also still dont know if it will even be possible to grind for more perks or if it will me a one time thing per account

[hard thistle]

If someone wants to grind out 200 plus hours for a perk than by all means they deserve it. I don’t see the issue, they probably would have won a heads up fight without perks with that kind of dedication anyways

[dire cedar]

idk you've backtracked on so many things already i don't even know what you want from this anymore, first you say classes need to exist bc of uniqueness, then you say multiclass for freedom of build which would be anti uniqueness, and then you go on to say that rng rolling to build your character to compete in a competitive pvp game is something to "play around" rather than simply calling out the devs for adding a potentially time predatory addition to the grind.

[barren ingot]

Devs also need to keep in mind that they need to respect players time. If you need to put 100 hours into a character just to get the perks you need because of “rng” then the players are not going to like that

[dire cedar]

all im sayi8ng is all players would be happy casual and tryhard if we just give every character every perk

[hard thistle]

To be fair it’s their game, you don’t have to play it, I don’t like WoW and I’m not in their discord complaining about it. Perhaps others will like it, perhaps they will revert the changes quickly, either way they will get invaluable data and figure out bugs with skill/perk interactions that will further help the game

[hard thistle]

I would not like that

[mental matrix]

I have back tracked at all lol, yes classes need to exist because of uniqueness (and cause the devs want them), yes multiclassing will give you more freedom, i don't know why you think both those things cant be true. You already need to play around the other teams' perks, all this will do is make it so you have more variables to play around giving another level of complexity to PVP in this game, something that is desperately needed.

[dire cedar]

you don't know what you like

[mental matrix]

lmao i know i dont want that

[dire cedar]

bad take, competetive games should have equal playing fields not just who's spent more time on the game to get what... but i digress

[mental matrix]

this game will allways reward more play time

[dire cedar]

that's what multiclassing is but just a few extra steps, and until you realize that then we won't get anywhere

[mental matrix]

more time = more gear = advantage

[mental matrix]

its not at all though, multiclassing ads a few new options while keeping class individuality

[mortal lance]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/538970/preserving-class-identities-within-the-multiclass-system

[boreal island]

sdf already mentioned doing something like this with the perk levels, think its a good idea. Imo specialization should be generally the best, with like 80% of the people using it. And then maybe 20% using multiclass for fun and weird combinations

[mental matrix]

anyway ive gtg. heres the summary of what we've discussed. My opinion = good. ur opinion = bad

[dire cedar]

essentially you talk in circles and contridict yourself a lot, you have a good one

[hard thistle]

Clearly your the smartest man here, go make your own game and make millions why don’t you! I’ll even try it, to say a grown person doesn’t know what they like is classless and debasing. Your clearly unhappy with some decisions ironmace made, but not every comment not in alignment with yours is invalid.

[dire cedar]

never claimed to be the smartest one here, stay mad

[hard thistle]

Ok boy genius have fun crying about a decision you have no impact on , stay made child.

[ebon palm]

insulting someones intelligence but fucking up the spelling of "you're" is peak irony

[dire cedar]

you're in a game discussion tab, i don't think you've understood that yet, but i digress, I am in a game discussion tab talking about how a game i really like to play is trying to add something that monopolizes my time and is a predatory business practice that a lot of gaming studios use in order to boost play time. if you can't see the shortsightedness of your arguement, then you are lost here.

[dire cedar]

i think so too

[subtle heart]

So Excited for this wipe!! Also Sitting here with 🍿 trying to keep up on the drama

[gray remnant]

matchfixing drama is never ending, just wait until the 2nd discord username list goes public

[dire cedar]

there's.... another one...?

[gray remnant]

according to a troubadour who was talking in here last night yeah. there was also a post that was taken down on reddit yesterday that had a list of names that may be related to it idk

[subtle heart]

What Is that? Sorry I couldnt find anything on it

[gray remnant]

private discord sever that were all quing at the same time to create private lobbies for themselves. several known streamers involved. 0 bans

[dire cedar]

streamers/high tier players queing up at the same time to match in the same lobbies so they can scrim each other

[hard thistle]

Using “you’re” is not proper English. It’s possessive in this case, perhaps do some light reading before unironically calling yourself out eh?

[subtle heart]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-eating-popcorn-enjoy-i-like-nom-nom-gif-11040065238845078056

[dire cedar]

no, it was not possessive in the case you used it, move along now

[ebon palm]

in this case the very first case is supposed to be "you're", thanks for coming to my TED talk, troglodyte.

[dire cedar]

"Clearly your the smartest man here" this is the exact quote btw so before you have any ideas

[ebon palm]

he even messed it up in the second sentence

[dire cedar]

listen man you ever hear of no child left behind... well he may be a child left behind

[subtle heart]

Oh shit just got my Taxes I know it's Irrelevant But, Damn boy be ballin now

[ebon palm]

Then on top of that, double downing in saying it was correct while saying I used it wrong 💀, my god brother, turn discord off

[unreal obsidian]

Is wipe today?

[subtle heart]

Yes sir or Ma'am

[dire cedar]

no the best part for me is that he keeps typing and then not typing, he's been thinking for a bit now

[hard thistle]

Waste of time with you people, first the discussion was about you being unable to bend from your opinion. Than you get your buddy to start attacking internet grammar, like I said, smartest men alive, stop wasting yer time on the internet and make yor millions with those smart brains of yours

[dire cedar]

that was never what the discussion was about, scroll up bozo

[hard thistle]

You had a big old argument about multi-classing for which you only said the other people were wrong, that’s exactly what it is about

[dire cedar]

my unbending opinion on multiclassing may be a product of the discussion but the discussion was on multiclassing not my unbending opinion...

[subtle heart]

<- Me Reading that

[dire cedar]

no I said things pertaining to what the others were pointing out thst were simply bad faith arguments given the context of the situation, you would understand that if you read them

[faint canopy]

are we expecting the wipe in 9 hours, or should i just ignore that timer?

[outer scaffold]

ignore it

[barren ingot]

15th

[subtle heart]

Wait Fr?

[dire cedar]

yes

[subtle heart]

Damn Welp this game was great while it was great 😭 Somehow I knew they would F that up...

[mental matrix]

yeah the extra 2 weeks was already annoying, cant believe they pushed it back again

[wicked linden]

I'm bored as fuck, just wanna play some dnd wipe

[subtle heart]

Where did they post that at?

[wicked linden]

literally no point in playing since its wiping

[mental matrix]

i dont think they even posted it, just said it in interviews

[mental matrix]

nah gotta run your bis down, best time to gain experience using and fighting against named items

[wicked linden]

that's boring imo

[mental matrix]

really? high level PvP is my favorite part of the game

[wicked linden]

most people's playstyle is boring to me, I've had friends rolling in named items because they sit and trade in collectors, it's not even a flex at that point

they have it becuase they don't use it, they just trade 24/7

[mental matrix]

yeah thats why end of wipe is fun, you finally get to fight people using their uniques

[wicked linden]

peak for me is legendary vs legendary gear, like demons glee. Named items are just too much lmao

[mental matrix]

nothing like taking viola from a guy who traded for 100 hours for it but forgot how to PvP

[mental matrix]

yeah that level is a lot of fun, one or two uniques thrown in every now and then do spice it up though

[void lantern]

If you play this game as a Battle Royale, then wipe means nothing. Just as much fun playing Normals the day before wipe as the day after. I'm just looking forward to hopefully some rebalancing.

[wicked linden]

I've never seen someone using a unique in any match I've played

[mental matrix]

really? was playing last night probably say about 15 in total over like 10ish games

[wicked linden]

I haven't played since I hit demigod, which was months ago

[mental matrix]

i mean

[wicked linden]

the game for got super stale

[mental matrix]

tha'll do it lol

[wicked linden]

I just logged in, my rank is gone

[mental matrix]

yeah they reset ranks for a normals pre-season

[wicked linden]

yeah, that shows how long I've been gone everything looks weird too. Like the rings and shit are changed

[mental matrix]

you will still get your ranked rewards, yeah some small visual updates

[wicked linden]

so 9 hrs wipe?

[mental matrix]

nope, not till friday

[surreal marlin]

I thought they had said Thursday?

[mental matrix]

i heard Friday, have to re-watch the interview to know for sure

[wicked linden]

doesn't matter I've been off work and school for one week, starting again friday and none of the games I play aligned. feelsbadddd

[mental matrix]

might start updating thursday finish friday knowing them,

[torn dragon]

When is the wipe?

[subtle heart]

After the poop.

[frank sage]

why do i need to have just common stuff to get into a game?

[molten otter]

ur playing normals, u can only take common and below into normals, play HR if you want to bring better gear

[frank sage]

ooh oki thanks man

[small raft]

dont play HR its just max geared gold teams rushing spawns

[molten otter]

Its 2 days from wipe, who cares

[sudden aspen]

Noob

[subtle heart]

#NoWipeTillWipeDay16 it’s starting to get really itchy back there but I’m holding the line

[valid storm]

Anyone else think dungeonborne play test brought good changes to D&D?

Happy to see competition

[formal moon]

No

[valid storm]

Dang lol. You don’t like the state of the game?

[brazen ginkgo]

anyone know why they pushed it back again? 😦

been waiting on this wipe for weeks

[formal moon]

I would argue no one does. 2 weeks into wipe we barely had 10k ppl

[valid storm]

Good point. But at least we have marketplace now

[formal moon]

Devs fumbled the bag aga

[brazen ginkgo]

sad day 😦

[valid storm]

Did you play DB? What were your thoughts on it?

[kindred gull]

@dytch finally gone weird admin

[tulip ridge]

Dev team was sick with covid

Anyone know how the multi class system will work? If i want to rock slayer rogue, do i have to lvl up fighter first to 100 as my master class and then make my rogue?

[wind venture]

My god.. starting a 3v3 and the entire lobby is rat naked rogues...

[formal moon]

Daytime hours = farmers only

[thorn plank]

Pretty sure you just need both classes lvl100 then you can use the “tokens” to see 3 random fighter perks/skills to choose from and hope one of them is slayer

[tulip ridge]

Really hope i get it first try 🤞

[velvet shard]

Solid dating app

[thorn plank]

Yea it’s gonna be easy to get screwed over if you’re unlucky

[wind venture]

Who do you need to contact for support?

[velvet shard]

Help tab in this discord

[wind venture]

@velvet shardI'll try

@velvet shardthats only for discord related stuff :/

[velvet shard]

Sorry I thought it was discord related https://darkanddarker.com/ and on the top right you can pull down a menu and support is on there

[wind venture]

@velvet shard I just heard from someone that a Xbox controller can be seen as suspicious activity…

[velvet shard]

That’s interesting I wonder if it flags for aim or or something from having a too consistent curser speed or something

[muted crow]

@glad thunder REMOVE ALL THE CRINGE IN THIS NEXT WIPE. INCREASE TTK, YOUR CRINGE DESIRE FOR LOW TTK IS ASPHIXIATING THIS GAME. LISTEN TO TERRENCE AND INCREASE TTK. REMOVE TRAPS, REMOVE THE ABILITY TO MOVE FASTER BY REMOVING ARMOR. REMOVE THE CRINGE.

[chrome fog]

anyways… rename rogue to victim

[muted crow]

REMOVE ROGUE

[daring junco]

WHENS WIPE

[boreal island]

I don't agree. TTK has to stay somewhat low to keep the fights quick and engaging and allow 1v2s and 1v3s. Also there are classes with limited spells you can't have people surviving 3-4 fireballs. Not to say there should be oneshots but the current TTK is not that far off from where it should be imo.

[noble kraken]

The 15th

[unique socket]

Why did they extend it two more days? What did I miss?

[noble kraken]

It was meant to happen tomorrow but they announced that the wipe will happen the 15th today look in announcements

[unique socket]

I thought it was meant to happen today, when the wipe timer reached 0.

It used to say "wipe countdown" or smth like that.

[noble kraken]

Weird maybe it was meant to go into downtime today but then they extended it

[undone belfry]

did i just neve notice that you dont use a lock pick it you dont fail? or is that new?

[noble kraken]

I’ve failed and it used a lock pick

[undone belfry]

yeah but it you pass it doesnt use?

i thought it used regardless

[noble kraken]

Ya I tried it it uses it no matter what

[undone belfry]

wow maybe it was a glitch on that game cuz i opened 3 lock pick chests and it didnt use any lol

[trail depot]

no they should add one hit kill utility items, remove melee combat, and add sliding and wallrunning

[fringe ibex]

keep goby caves 5x5 dont change back to the 3x3

[formal moon]

Just delete gc and make the game hard again

[polar agate]

bruh i took off work to play wipe and its pushed back come on

[velvet shard]

What did they do you make it easier?

[zealous nova]

I'm a barb, with a lute, slap clarity on my wiz, also spec wiz so it benefits me too, we come out of invis and toss deuce fireball at you while we buff eachother with haste and chase you down with our ignite staff mastery build

[tardy depot]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/538970/preserving-class-identities-within-the-multiclass-system

[tranquil steppe]

Is this wipe means all of our characters will be gone with inventories or just leaderboard ?

[dry nebula]

everything is reset but character names and cosmetics

[noble lark]

Sounds idiotic

[zealous nova]

sdf — Today at 8:02 AM
Wipe #3 is scheduled for release on March 15th UTC. Unfortunately, we cannot give you the exact time due to fixes made during final QA, but we will do our best to deliver as quickly as possible. Thank you for waiting so long.

[shy rampart]

What do you guys think is the best duo comp for high roller? (AP Farming)

[dense grove]

Full wipe

[random echo]

double phantomize ranger with cut throat duh. or if you dont like cut throat use tumble 🙂

[hoary flax]

Does Kuma's fang give +15 magic damage on everything while you hold it? Spell casts, melee attacks, etc?

[red cipher]

GUYS does it wipe in 2 hours 40 min or is that a joke?

[ebon stag]

A joke

[red cipher]

when is wipe then

[ebon stag]

Announced in announcements

[formal moon]

GC, was implied i thought

[fair geode]

Guys is slayer figther rreally better than bard with good gear both ?

[wicked linden]

they're similar, bard hits like a truck tho

[dire cedar]

petition to remove classes entirely when the dev says "the multiclass system will allow you to have access to every single classes perks/SPELLS/ SKILLS BUT it is locked behind an RNG element bc they want ROGUELIKE unique type builds for each player. TLDR ; Basically they are monopolizing your time forcing you to farm tokens to get the shit you want

[wicked linden]

I love gotcha games

[dire cedar]

I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL I GET DOUBLE JUMP RANGER RAHHHHHHH

[red cipher]

Barbarian hide

[twin magnet]

YEEAAAAH POKEMON

[ebon jolt]

Still gonna play base rogue or slayer fighter

[wicked linden]

hershey popcorn, yes?

[velvet shard]

Saying goblin caves is an interesting take I think you’ll find when they release the data it has a much worse survival rate

[formal moon]

I won't disagree that newbs die easily, Trio's has definitely fallen off. But if you've been playing the game GC is faceroll easy and always has been

[plain peak]

hofully the whipes today only been waiting all sever fora whipe l0l

[brave lava]

I think Weapons need to have more balancing patches

[formal moon]

15th

[wicked linden]

gadies and lentlement, no wipe

[vale shell]

That’s an ability not a perk

[velvet shard]

Double jump is a perk lmao and they’ve said both perks and abilities

[red cipher]

Me when I go naked rouge but have +10% phys bc of barbarians ability

[plain peak]

awwww sheeet l0l

[dusk dove]

very happy this game is getting an arena. Wonder how its gonna work, maybe give all gear for picks as whites for free as long as the class can use it.

[muted crow]

the issue isnt things like fireball. if they globally increase ttk they can increase the damage of fireball keeping the ttk for that ability the same. but when 2 left clicks kills anyone that is incredibly unengaging combat.

@glad thunder MY ARGUMENT FOR GLOBAL TTK INCREASE IS SO THAT ABILITIES THAT ARE MEANT TO FEEL POWERFUL STILL CAN BE BUT WE'RE NOT GETTING 2 AND 3 TAPPED BY UNEXCITED IMPLEMENTS OF EASE LIKE THROWABLES. TTK THIS LOW MEANS ANY LITTLE THING BREAKS THE GAME. IT IS A DESIGN FLAW, PERIOD, FULL STOP.

@glad thunder FURTHERMORE WE'RE NOT BOWING OUT OF PVP ALTOGETHER BECAUSE WE GOT NICKED BY ONE OF THE TRASH MOBS. IT'S SO BORING TO HAVE TO COMPLETELY DISENGAGE UNTIL YOU'RE FULL HP SO YOU CAN HAVE A 50% CHANCE OF NOT IMMEDIATELY DYING.
YOU SMIPLY NEED MORE NUMBERS TO WORK WITH AND SLIDE AROUND FOR POWER SCALING. IF AN ABILITY IS VERY RISKY AND DIFFICULT TO PULL OFF IT SHOULD HIT HARD. IF IT'S AN EASY LITTLE SHITTY ABILITY THOUGH, THEN IT SHOULD DO SHITTY DAMAGE.

@glad thunder AT CURRENT NEARLY EVERY ABILITY IN THE GAME DOES WELL OVER 50% OF ANY COMBATANT'S HP. AT THIS POINT YOU MIGHT AS WELL GIVE US GUNS.

[loud creek]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-gif-21355539

[muted crow]

EXACTLY

[loud creek]

you deadass think SDF is gonna be like that when he reads your middle school tantrum

[muted crow]

IF HE HAS A BRAIN CELL YES.

[loud creek]

good luck buddy

[muted crow]

THANK YOU, MOST KIND SIR.

[loud creek]

take off your caps lock from your keyboard completely, btw

[muted crow]

I TOOK IT OFF, IM HOLDING SHIFT

[red cipher]

ban this guy

[muted crow]

DON'T ATTACK MIMOSAA LIKE THAT.

[red cipher]

nah you

[muted crow]

WHY WOULD I ATTACK MIMOSAA, THEY DID NOTHING BUT EXPRESS THEIR OPINION.

[red cipher]

my only concern is that they hire more people that know what they're doing so they can actually get these udates out so people play the game

[muted crow]

NEW CONTENT IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN MAKING THE CURRENT CONTENT MORE ENGAGING.

[red cipher]

but it is tho

[muted crow]

@glad thunder INSUFFICIENTLY ADJUSTABLE TTK IS GOING TO DRAG DOWN ANY IMPROVEMENTS YOU MAKE TO THIS GAME.

[red cipher]

they can do both, they have the budget to hire more people and people that know what they are doing

[delicate maple]

hr lobbies are full of naked rogues lol

[muted crow]

NO THEY CAN'T LOL
IF YOU ARE HUNGRY FOR CONTENT IDK WHAT TO TELL YOU. THESE DEVS DO MORE UPDATES THAN EVEN 90% OF EARLY ACCESS DEVS. IT'S ACTUALLY A PROBLEM, TOO MUCH CONTENT, NOT ENOUGH REFINEMENT.
QUALITY OVER QUANTITY ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

[red cipher]

now imagine next season when they have barbs perk +10% phys without a shirt

[muted crow]

@glad thunder IF YOU GUYS SIMPLY REFINE THE CONTENT YOU ALREADY HAVE, THIS GAME IS ALREADY BETTER THAN 99.99% OF THE SLOP TROPH THAT IS LIVE SERVICE CONTENT.

[signal osprey]

I disagree. Considering the amount of content they have planned I believe it's a complete waste of time to worry about/work on balancing issues. Maybe when the game is actually completed and has all the planned content we should worry about balance

[muted crow]

THIS IS AN EXTREMELY NAIVE AND FLAWED VIEW.

[red cipher]

I just want them to meet there own deadlines or hire new devs that can

[muted crow]

LETS MAKE THE GAME WORK PROPERLY WHEN EVERYONE HAS ALREADY BEEN GIVEN A BAD IMPRESSION.

[signal osprey]

Care to explain why? The game was pitched for a 10k concurrent player base so I'm not worried about a decline in playerbase in favor of a completed game

[muted crow]

AND EVERMORE ADD MORE AND MORE THINGS THAT WILL NEED TO BE ADJUSTED.

[red cipher]

exactly

[signal osprey]

Why waste all the time and resources for balance when ever content update will shake up/brake the balance

[muted crow]

THIS IS A WASTE OF TIME AND RESOURCES.

[formal moon]

the original game was pitched for a small player base. This iteration was not

[muted crow]

BECAUSE NEW CONTENT SHOULD BE DONE IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T OR BARELY DOES AFFECT BALANCE. IF YOU LEAVE THE GAME IN A STATE WHERE THE MOST MINOR POWER SPIKE BREAKS THE GAME YOU ARE GENERATING INFINITE WORK FOR YOUR SELF.

[signal osprey]

Imo the games not even 25% completed and is rather see the full game before we worry about ranked matches/balancing

[slender panther]

today update without wipe?

[signal osprey]

I think ranked hr and normals mode was a complete waste of time/resources

[formal moon]

Problem is they've changed the game in too many ways to capture a bigger audieance and can't finish all the little systems and things they added

[signal osprey]

We don't even have all the planned classes how could you possibly complain about balance

[muted crow]

I AGREE WITH YOU ON ALL BUT "BALANCE". BUT LOW TTK ISNT JUST A BALANCE ISSUE. IT'S A "BORE THE PLAYERBASE TO TEARS" ISSUE.

[formal moon]

a side from adding more classes. should just revert the game back to pt4 and work on the content from there

[signal osprey]

When everyone. Creates glass cannon builds/gearsets that's what u get. Player issue

I've players with high phys resistance and high magic resistance and ttk for me was a lot slower

[formal moon]

Also what a lot of people whom say wait for the dev's to finish cooking. Most of their Idea's they're coming up with are really bad and just functionally time wasty

[frank venture]

we’re all passionate bro stop typing in caps 😭

[signal osprey]

I personally would be in complete favor of this or something along the lines

If they could shut the game down for a couple of months without losing all funding that would be the golden route imo

[muted crow]

lol ok. mdb and pbd yourself around a 200 damage dealing falchion with 20% armor penn

[signal osprey]

I'd still win

[frank venture]

nah id win.

[muted crow]

NO LOL

[formal moon]

They don't need to shut the game down. They should just do trios or solos only until the game is a lot closer and actually create content instead of chores

[muted crow]

OK, YOU'RE CLEARLY TOO ARROGANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY IN ANY CAPACITY. NOT GONNA WASTE MY TIME WITH YOU.

[signal osprey]

Fr they have many classes as well as many maps planned out I couldn't even think about balancing/ttk until the games actually ready

[tardy sandal]

Nah I can take them

[frank venture]

Ttk hard to balance, when weapons like falchion do 2x more than other options

[limber badge]

Bar brawl mode so I can beat the shit out of my fellow adventurers and drink ale

[signal osprey]

I'm being serious Ive played high magic/phys resist builds before it's a lot of fun and I usually only die to the opposite damage I'm stacking

[tardy sandal]

I’m going to cleanse everyone who tries to get drunk

[formal moon]

Trying to raise the TTK is just a waste of time. They need to figure out what they want the classes to be first

[limber badge]

laughs in true damage

[muted crow]

I AM AWARE OF HOW DAMAGE MITIGATION WORKS IN THIS GAME. ONE GEARSET DOES NOT A SYSTEMIC GAME DESIGN ISSUE FIX.

[frank venture]

10 true damage into 200 health:

[signal osprey]

Fr tho but I'd rarely run into a rogue/fighter stacking that

[limber badge]

I mean, you aren't ONLY hitting 10 lol

[tardy sandal]

I see the issue here, people want 100% pdr back, that would reduce ttk by a ton

[signal osprey]

I'd did for me

[formal moon]

once multi classing comes out, class identity is gone and everyone is a fighter base for the stats and dips into what class they want to play

or the grind will take too long and the ppl with the time will just have crazy imba classes and everyone else will quit

[frank venture]

Well yeah but if you hitting for 20 without the true its still gonna take 7 hits to kill

[signal osprey]

I'd imagine the multiclass will come with "-stat" but I could be wrong

[limber badge]

Thelorr had a great recent vid with armor pen and I ran armor pen, it was glorious