suggestion-discussion

[frosty juniper]

Instead of purple tax, how about a naked mode with poor loot and few extract portals? Can only join in with starter gear?

Plays more like a BR but can slowly build stash to go into geared games

[bright ore]

The game needs to have systems in place to encourage players to move on from regs.

[tiny wigeon]

i agree, they have some already, u cant get legendaries or uniques except going to high roller, i justthink people dont care, they would rather go stomp on some timmies

[frosty juniper]

An idea I got is tie all quests etc to HR, have quests like ”extract from HR x amount of times”, maybe ”Kill Nightmare Skeleton spearman y times” etc

[patent mauve]

Agreed, but alot of timmies wind up following the chads lead when it comes to balance changes like the rogue nerfs, the best rogue main streams more league than DaD at this point, and that was in the timmies/streamers best interest. There's not much of a difference between a good rolled green and a great purple now, the problem is the users of said items. We just need more incentives to do HR. I think free HR weekends would be a nice start and let's timmies have their go at harder dungeons without the cost burden.

[neat cloud]

All I'm saying here is - There needs to be a gear separation in matchmaking

[patent mauve]

I've suggested a few ideas for this I'll post it in a second

[frosty juniper]

But people proved that blue capped lobbies only mqde purples lose value and ppl just bought bis blues to go there and stomp timmies anyway..

[tiny wigeon]

this guy doesnt listen, he just says his vague ass opinion, give no actual ideas to make it happen and thats it

[frosty juniper]

Surely the gap was closed a bit but the experience+full gear isnt really beatable for a timmy

[patent mauve]

"I suggested a low drop rate map with a community centered boss battle, like a giant dragon on a gold hoard.
With a gear lock on white/grey only.
The only rooms that connects to other teams spawns is through the boss room, and the only way to open the door is from the spawn side. Similar to a few rooms in crypts that have one way open lever doorways. The good loot only spawns in the boss room. So players can have the choice for mostly if not all PVE, and then can decide to make the leap into the boss room. So few new players even attempt bossing.."

[frosty juniper]

Ive suggested triumph level lobbies a cpl times, tie fresh lobbies to fresh accounts.

[patent mauve]

Triumph level lobbies sounds like an okay idea, just make it within 2-3 levels for queues. Disabled for HR.

[frosty juniper]

Needs some way to hinder ppl dropping gear for freshies etc tho

[patent mauve]

Resets each major wipe as well so the separation happens slowly each wipe. So the matchmaking doesn't suffer for the first week or two

[neat cloud]

That's not a bad idea really.

[patent mauve]

Honestly this idea slaps

[neat cloud]

Someone tell the Dev's because we know darn well they don't read all this chat lol

[patent mauve]

And there's no way for good players to circumvent it without buying a new game

[patent mauve]

post the suggestion so I can upvote

[frosty juniper]

Yup, it will be a good starting ground for new players to learn map etc

Maybe 50 something extracts before you can unlock trade and get locked to join freshy lobbies

Good players will get out of fresh lobbies in a day or two

[patent mauve]

Doesn't punish good players for being good, doesn't hurt timmie by restricting gear. This idea hits.

[neat cloud]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506106/triumph-level-based-matchmaking

[patent mauve]

Maybe not restrict trading since freshies will reach triumph levels quickly, but either way a good idea all around.

[echo dome]

starter kit only lobbies.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506108/starter-kit-only-lobbies

[patent mauve]

I suggested a map for this.
With a community boss that guards the good chests/loot

[wet mortar]

my big confusion with this patch was buffing ranged weapons

[worthy iron]

Tell that to the bis rubysilver fighter I killed with a green spellbook

[neat cloud]

That's a skill issue right there lmfao

[frosty juniper]

I was talking about blue gear cap

My point was that gear gap isnt the only issue for timmys, its also experience.

[patent mauve]

I beat a legendary geared wizard with a white falchion and a survival bow.

[echo dome]

starter kit only lobbies.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506108/starter-kit-only-lobbies

timmys need help

" I haven't made it out of a single dungeon in over 30 runs because of BIS geared folk looking to grief the entire lobby, it's infuriating!"

[neat cloud]

See idk if starter kit only lobbies are the answer. But maybe a level based. As suggested above - I made a suggestion here for a fix we collectively think would work. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506106/triumph-level-based-matchmaking go vote :P

[worthy iron]

Which I got by playing the game against better geared players. Same way I learned tarkov

[patent mauve]

Should make the queue check disabled if your wearing blue/ purple items, as a solution to the freshies getting gear drops.

[neat cloud]

Tarkov... -shudder- I have about 6 wipes under my belt in that disaster

[frosty juniper]

You should also be able to opt out of starter lobby, to play with experienced friends. In turn it makes ur acc non fresh

[neat cloud]

Exactly, that was the problem with the whole 1-14, 15-20 separation

[frosty juniper]

You dont want ppl to have to grind thru something to be able to play with mates

Which also comes as a handy solution to prevent gear dropping

[short heath]

No amount of incentivizing HR will result in keeping people from rolling no-ante lobbies in the best possible gear they can possibly get. You have to either seriously disincentivize running no-ante lobbies in disgustingly overtiered gear or literally force them out of no-ante runs. People saying HR isn't worth running haven't run HR consistently enough to form an opinion on it. HR has almost always been worth the ante because of the potential gains you can get from it if you're successful. There's always going to be luck and rng involved in drops - sometimes you hit, sometimes you won't... just the same as surviving both in HR and no-ante runs... but at the very least you'll make 4x your investment in collectibles if you're efficient at looting and clearing, and don't end up dying. If people played HR more, they'd get more confident in doing it and likely wouldn't be so scared of running it (gear fear). Additionally, HR pregame lobbies would fill up faster and make queue sniping for gold farming harder to do. The community is literally screwing themselves and the game economy by not running HR more often... and then they blame these problems on other things that they think are the problem, but realistically aren't a problem at all, they just don't know any better because they haven't invested in actually doing HR consistently so that they would know better. More people running HR would also make new/casual player lives better because that's also equating to less overgearing happening in no-ante lobbies. 3 problems are solved, or would be at least combatted well by the community actually running HR instead of being scared to do so. You won't get better at fighting well geared and skilled players unless you're actually challenging yourself to do so. Get the gear, go to HR, fight them and learn. Stop being afraid to lose your pixels.

[echo dome]

starter gear only lobbies, loot maxed at greens, can only wear it in raid have to start fresh new raid.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506108/starter-kit-only-lobbies

[patent mauve]

Of course not, but im not against incentivizing players to go into HR.
My stashes are always full to the point where I have to bring a full kit into a lobby.

[small furnace]

How is IM slacking so hard that Chinese people feel comfortable putting rl currency prices on things in the trading post? Surely it can't be THAT hard to have someone occasionally take a peek at the trading post and instaban those people?

[patent mauve]

True

[echo dome]

someone DDOS the gold buying websites they fired first. I say someone because IDK how 😦 I hear DDOSing a website is way easier

[small furnace]

Like if you go look at almost any trade chat you'll see legendaries with "RMB" pricetags, which is a chinese currency lmao.

[turbid sundial]

I really hope we get a pve only server 😦

[echo dome]

careful the BIS players gonna troll, prediciting "get gud" comments near future.

[turbid sundial]

i dont care, i play rogue and play solo most of the time. Trash bis players out there, LOLWAT I AM A MELEE FRONTLINER RANGER

[patent mauve]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506120/named-unique-old-shoes

[short heath]

Spear on Ranger highly underrated, though, for real. Idk how many times dudes thought they were safe to walk at me just to get slapped in the face twice and flop.

[small furnace]

I do like subverting expectations, but the way I do that is by running multishot and quickshot together. So they think they're safe to run up to me with my longbow out and then they get shot in the face by 5 arrows and fall over.

[short heath]

If multishot spread wasn't so ass I would take it more for the burst damage. I think it's fine where it is at because shotgunning shouldn't really be a super reliable strat, otherwise Ranger would be even more strong than they currently are, but it's nuts when you make it work.

[small furnace]

The only thing that makes it good is people thinking you don't have it. If everybody treated ranger as if he had it, it would be a useless skill since it's extremely easy to kite it when you know someone has it.

As it stands though people like to get RIGHT UP in ranger's faces when they don't know you have this, which works just fine for me because once they get close enough you can 5-headshot them and it'll work just fine.

[echo wharf]

no warlock nerf, why

[short heath]

Melee Ranger, but you have a Windlass and a Longbow so someone pushes you and they take over 200 damage in a matter of 2s.

[small furnace]

Warlock did in fact get nerfed. What makes you say they didn't?

[safe copper]

well if pvp is all they want for this game and they don't figure out how to stop the op players from consuming all the fun then i give this game a few more months then off to graveyard for failed games....

[echo wharf]

how so

[small furnace]

Warlock's Torture Mastery now doubles the cost of the spell.```

Every warlock runs torture mastery.

[echo wharf]

oh man dont take away some health they can instantly get back\

[small furnace]

You don't have to get snarky just cause you can't read.

It's a nerf, might not be the best of nerfs but you literally said no warlock nerf, why which is just blatantly incorrect.

[echo wharf]

its not really a nerf if nothing changes is it

[small furnace]

A nerf is any change aimed at balancing a class that involves making something weaker or less effective by any metric.

You said 'no nerfs' this is a nerf, whether it is good nerf is still up for debate.

[patent mauve]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506120/named-unique-old-shoes

[rapid sorrel]

play warlock rn and tell me its in a good spot

[patent mauve]

I'd say it was more of a rebalance. A positive change and a negative change together. Debatable on whether or not it's a net positive/negative

[rapid sorrel]

i woud love to watch you play it

[patent mauve]

I play with life drain and hydra, so I got a pretty big buff for my playstyle.

[small furnace]

It's a nerf, there is no warlock that plays without torture mastery. The cost of every spell went up.

[rapid sorrel]

if you play with gear its still fine, base kit is by far the worst class rn

[echo wharf]

warlock is easy. can heal off of its own spells, has massive damage potential, and has range attacks.

[rapid sorrel]

You dont play warlock do you

[echo wharf]

warlocks level 20, nah i dont play him

[patent mauve]

It raised the cost of all spells? To what levels?

[short heath]

Warlock is pretty solid right now

[small furnace]

Warlock is quite a strong class and certainly a swiss army knife in terms of what they can do.

I would not call them an 'easy' class though, at least not in terms of being successful.

[rapid sorrel]

Wizard can do what warlock can but better, unless you have a bunch of Mheal there is no point comparing the 2

[patent mauve]

How much did they reduce the cost of spells by?

[short heath]

Holy misinformation Batman

[echo wharf]

you must not play the game

[rapid sorrel]

how long does CoP take to kill a goblin base? a wizard does it in 1 MM at lvl 1

[small furnace]

Unsure, but it's clearly in the patch notes for you to read there. I don't play warlock I just know they increased the cost of every spell used when torture mastery is equipped, and there is no warlock that players without torture mastery.

@rapid sorrel No? Wizard is a straight up burst DPS class. They do THAT better than warlock does. Warlock has so many more uses than wizard does.

[short heath]

Lul. Pve is not the entire game, certainly not base kit pve. Open your mind.

[rapid sorrel]

ok what does warlock do better then other classes?

[patent mauve]

Warlock got a buff with the hat that gives 3MH as well to compensate.

[rapid sorrel]

if you get the hat, i specially said base kit didnt i?

[patent mauve]

They should be in a great position, this was just a nerf to curse of pain spam with torture mastery for free. Overall good for the class

[small furnace]

Ahem
Area denial,
Attrition,
Harassment,
Rogue checking,
Body blocking,
Room clearing,
Boss fighting.

[short heath]

Zone, self-sustain, ranged damage over time and kiting (literally better than Rangers currently, especially if there are ways to break line of sight), bossing is free, stealth/invisible not a threat due to Hydra...

[patent mauve]

💯

Everyone thinks it's weak until the warlock spams hydra+life drain on the only door in inferno that leads to safety outside the boss room

[rapid sorrel]

and those all require gear... if i say base kit and your argument is things that require gear then your kinda dumb NGL

[patent mauve]

So a nerf to Timmy locks and a buff to Chad locks?

[small furnace]

They require very little gear, what do you mean? Just a bit of spell memory and you're good to go.

If you can only see things in 'what is the base kit capable of' then you gotta re evaluate my man.

[short heath]

You can do all of that without gear. Warlocks are literally the most reliable base kit boss killing class in the game. What?

[patent mauve]

Warlock was always considered heavily gear dependant by the community, just go watch any lock steamer/ U tuber

[short heath]

Bro is actually delusional lol

[patent mauve]

They solo bosses in base kit still, that's just nasty.

[rapid sorrel]

yall cant read

[small furnace]

This is one of those cases of: "If the class doesn't work for me then surely something is wrong >:(" bet.

[short heath]

He's legit just bad and cannot accept it.

[patent mauve]

He's coming from the perspective of, "I don't have gear". You can't escape one round and stock up on grey hats?

[rapid sorrel]

ive played every test and every class (minus bard), my exact words were "if you play with gear its still fine, base kit is by far the worst class rn" when do i say geared is BAD???? your all unable to read and should open a book tbh

[short heath]

Can't afford a single gray hat from the tailor with mheal on it

[small furnace]

You really don't need much gear to turn warlock into the all-performing swiss army knife he is meant to be. Just a bit of spell memory to push yourself far enough to get hydra and still have other useful spells.

[patent mauve]

F to pay respects

[short heath]

What part about base kit Warlock is the most reliable boss killing class in the game do you not understand? Compared to all other base kit classes, Warlock literally stomps at boss killing among other things.

[patent mauve]

Legit hydra+ life drain now and I can live in the swarm looting the edges of the map if I have to

[small furnace]

If you had said something like "Wizard is better at killing people than warlock is" I doubt anyone here would've contested you.

You just had to say: "Wizard does everything warlock does better" though, which isn't true.

[short heath]

I'd love to see a base kit Wizard try to boss 🤣 or sustain through ring while zoning people to death via swarm.

[small furnace]

Better watch out, he'll zap, fireball CL magic missile the lich to death before you know it!

[patent mauve]

Wizard in the swarm, objective : survive

[rapid sorrel]

Clear is faster
PVP is better solo and in a team
Your spells are free with no real cost
You don't need Melee because your spells a goated
The only thing wizard cant do is solo bosses unless they have a bunch of clarity pots to watse

[short heath]

Clarity pots don't exist anymore, bud. Play the game.

[rapid sorrel]

he can just kill the warlock after he solos the boss

[small furnace]

See you'd sound reasonable if you didn't try to slip unreasonable things into your arguments for no reason.

Your spells are free with no real cost Like what are you saying here? If anything warlock's spells are more free cause he just heals it back up.
You don't need Melee because your spells a goated Ignoring the fact that every GOOD wizard runs crystal sword are we?
The only thing wizard cant do is solo bosses unless they have a bunch of clarity pots to watse As Onyx explained, clarity pots literally do not exist anymore.

Like yeah, you are right on two of those points. Wizard has the better pvp, and a faster clear if you don't take rest time into account. Good job! Now stop injecting blatantly incorrect things into the rest of your argument.

[short heath]

I know why terrible is in your name now @rapid sorrel

I'm toxic to stupid people and I don't care, sue me.

[patent mauve]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506120/named-unique-old-shoes
double jump boots!

[rapid sorrel]

I said didnt NEED melee, i didn't say they had trash melee.
BASE warlock which is what ive been talking about this entire time has no real healing now with the torture mastery nerf.
Also i have a life and dont play this game every single day, your right clarity pots are gone (been less then 24 hours with that change) but your going to try and invalidate my entire argument with that.

[woven jolt]

Let lizardmen equip an additional necklace/talisman in the helmet slot. Too much is lost by not being able to wear any headgear

[small furnace]

Yes, it may be hard to believe but when you make an argument based on clarity pots that it turns out are not in the game we are indeed going to invalidate your argument based on that fact.

[rapid sorrel]

i mentioned them, didnt base my argument off them at all

[small furnace]

They're supposed to have a reduced head hitbox to compensate for this, but reality is often disappointing: #dnd-memes-only message

[woven jolt]

but it's not really reduced, though? It's abou thte same size, it's just shifted slightly down and forward. There's an argumant to be made for it being harder to hit headshots when attacking with horizontal swings

[small furnace]

You're misunderstanding. Look at the image I linked there, the head hitbox is basically exactly the same, it's broken. IM needs to fix it.

[patent mauve]

The tail has no hitbox and that makes me sad

[small furnace]

Yeah they basically used cape physics for it, I would like the tail to have a hitbox.

I would also like the head hitbox to be smaller since it's supposed to be part of the compensation for... y'know literally missing an equip slot.

Besides that it's just goofy to not have a hitbox match what the actual model looks like.

[short heath]

Brother, I work rotating 12 hr shifts. I work more than 80% of society does both physical amount of days and actual hours worked. I am married with two young kids that require a LOT of attention, and even more so now that they are getting into sports. I get it.

But you cannot make an argument where you literally say that the people you're arguing against are unable to read/should open a book (I've read and written more than 3x what you've read, I'm sure), that you've played every PT, and make the claim that Warlock is unplayable in base kit when you either a) clearly have not even played it yet yourself based on the fact that you didn't know that clarity pots were gone, or b) are ridiculously overstating the class nerfs you see in the patch notes (but conveniently didn't read anything about clarity pots being gone, so uhh... maybe YOU need to work on your reading capabilities?).

You literally just self-owned the entire argument. I just pointed out how dumb you made yourself look.

[rapid sorrel]

naw dude your just plain stupid, idk what's up yours rn but you should take a break from the internet. you kept bring up non base warlock for each and every point your small brain tried to make.

Its also very bold of you to assume how much someone reads because i can assure you i have read more books then you ever will. As far as the torture mastery nerf goes you can ask any warlock in the warlock chat if they thinks its a massive nerf to anyone running the BASE kit. (ill bold it so your blind ass can see it).

You claim your option is correct which is fine in a discussion channel after all but then go into insulting others when they disagree, your also completely ignored what i said and projected a imaginary argument that I said geared warlocks were bad. (which i never did).

You don't have the warlock tag so you have no way of knowing what any of the players in there have been saying about the changes, the large majority think doubling the health cost is quite large and this especially shows when talking about the **BASE **warlock kit.

if you want to we can continue this in DM's as we shouldn't flood this channel if its going to be insults

[static cypress]

Is there any where to report teaming anymore??

[short heath]

I'm not gunna argue the point of reading/writing beyond letting you know that I'm a nuclear engineer and read/write on a daily basis more than most people tend to do in months, if not years. That's besides the point though, so let's get down to what you claimed about me and what I've said here so that I can yet again call you out for being dumb and unable to read after you've claimed that I need to read.

I said a SINGLE comment about geared Warlocks - you being too poor to buy a gray hat from the tailor that has mheal on it as a base stat. I didn't even compare that single piece of gray, +1mheal gear to Wizard's capability to fight. So, kindly and respectfully, go practice punching yourself in the face more.

Secondly, as a person who has a 20 Warlock and has actually played after the hotfix landed, and has killed both the Troll and Lich solo with it (yes, in base kit), I will confidently tell you and the rest of the Warlocks that they're overreacting and need to adjust their playstyle. Less spamming = better.

Again, I never said anything about geared Warlocks. I made a list of things base kit Warlocks did more efficiently than Wizards could do, because of your asinine and absurd claim that Wizards are just better Warlocks in base kit comparison - which is not only wrong, but also next to pointless to make, because the game doesn't revolve around base kit anything. It's a part of balancing, sure. But that means next to nothing about anything else the game has to offer in terms of balance. For example, base kit Barbarian is a literal stat check to Rogues, Fighters, and Wizards right now. They can hit 180 health in base kit and just run at you. That doesn't prevent any players from running Fighters, Clerics, Rogues, etc... does it? No. Why? Because base kit is ran almost never by the majority of players, so who cares what base kit flaws each class has, when other classes also have base kit flaws to deal with? Your argument is ridiculous. Now go play the game.

[midnight wigeon]

CLERIC SHOULD HAVE 5 LESSER HEALS & ONLY 2 BIG HEALS. 3 & 3 is ridiculous

[graceful frost]

The class is good enough already in solos

[midnight wigeon]

game wasnt made for solos. evolved into it

[modern junco]

Normal lobbies need more escape portals earlier on into the games and hr can stay the same, casuals are fleeing this game and there's gonna be no playerbase soon. they need escaping normals significantly easier, GC need 1 more portal and crypts portals need to spawn more. Ruins is a whole other ball game with the lowest survivability of the maps I'm sure, need data but I'm willing to bet that the most people die in ruins, the map layout + amount of players + the current escape system makes that map a mess.

[lost delta]

Please revert back double health copst for touture mastery

[patent mauve]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506120/named-unique-old-shoes

Double jump boots!

[north edge]

give basekit wizard a spellbook

[patent mauve]

Spellbook+ Crystal sword

[hallow cargo]

@dawn grotto please revert haste and make it self cast only

[short heath]

I'll be honest, the concept isn't bad, and for the health of the game, I think avoiding the name "Rogue", or "Assassin" and the oneshot mentality that those class names are typically surrounded by would be good. Change the name of the class to something like Smuggler, or Thief, and give their talent tree the option for a Duelist subclass that has something like this.

[languid swift]

I don't really think of "Rogue" as a one-shotter. It's a sneaky boy.

[lone crown]

woohoo I love how a barb can heal back up to full hp with one hit which one of you guys thought that this was a good idea lmao

[short heath]

I'm thoroughly convinced they don't have a QA or balance team.

[lone crown]

yeah, every big update there is something super broken that happens and ruins the whole game

[neat cloud]

Hear me out. no gear changes, no limitations. just a fair matchmaking process that seems easy enough to do. go vote : https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506106/triumph-level-based-matchmaking

[frosty juniper]

Thats a bug with achilles strike and the lifesteal ability. It should not procc off achilles ticks, its fair to say the ability was completely useless tho prechange. Theyll probably fix the achilles interaction soon

[sinful flare]

Soon you mean in 2 weeks after everyone has suffered?

They need to address these things immediately or the game will just keep dying every patch people are complaining and not playing it’s because they are addressing the wrong things and they need to start listening to the top players of every class and not just bozo streamers who can’t dodge a fireball

[frosty juniper]

Chill, unintentional skill interaction. Write a bug report instead of typing here if u want them to know about it.

Its probably been broken this way for a while but nobody was using it prebuff cause with the tooltip alone you could calculate it was a net loss of hp to use.

[patent mauve]

The price of famine must be 4x higher than any other named item rn

[grizzled zenith]

Give us class voice chat channels. It’s time we bring these arguments to the stage

[sinful flare]

Yea true, but I think this is not the only thing that breaks the game, the class itself is super op regardless this exchange blood thing.

[astral fog]

hello

for some reason when the game updated i lost my stash is that supposed to happen?

[neat cloud]

There was a rollback by half a day

[astral fog]

oh okay thanks for the info

[tiny wigeon]

No , multiple ppl in this channel have told you why it’s bad to have matchmaking system with a player pool this small

[tiny wigeon]

You just come here, every few hours to post your senseless ideas. That have been show multiple times why it’s a bad idea, yet u keep pushing for it, without ever counter arguing

[ornate ferry]

I really want to break boxes as rogu.. The loot in the boxes is nuts normally, and its so annoying not being able to just because im a rogue???? Could we get this changed somehow???

[neat cloud]

And you sit in here to argue with people. go pound salt

[tiny wigeon]

Do u realize this channel is called suggestion-DISCUSSION ?
Oh , why do I even bother , I keep trying to argue with a room temperature IQ individual, and I don’t mean Fahrenheit

[wintry egret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z43yiD1-1YM&t=8s fix this now

[wintry egret]

lol cus, YoU'RE WrONg AnD ThEy'Re RIgHT

[tiny wigeon]

Listen , this dude comes here every few hours, begging ppl to go vote for his idea.
Me and many other ppl here have argued why it’s a bad idea , he has yet to rebuttal ONCE, he doesn’t give any argument why he doesn’t agree with us. He just ignores , comes back few hours later does the same.
This is a discussion channel, it’s not that I’m right and he is wrong , it’s that he has yet to counter mine and other ppls argument here, so yes, his idea is trash cause not even he can defend it

[neat cloud]

You literally are the only person that has argued with me at all. And you're nasty about it. Why do I need to back up my idea? it's an idea - if someone likes it great. If not - great.

[wintry egret]

i dont disagree im making fun of him for being a tool like most people on this channel, they let their ego control their opinion so they usually have a bias.

[tiny wigeon]

Alright alright , this chat sometimes blinds me dude, earlier today some dude actually suggested to “remove the dark swarm” …
It’s like ppl don’t understand the type of game they playing

[echo dome]

god help us, once your hit once your just dead GG

[lone crescent]

They need to remove the healing off achilles' damage

[hollow surge]

ability to choose your human appearance with the already installed models. seemed like a good idea so im sharing it here. upvote if youre interested:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506189/make-each-human-model-a-race

[smoky girder]

Cant embed gifs, what a world. Why live if you cant gifpost.

[smoky girder]

To play off of this, it seems to me that the expansion of this mechanic is being considered. There have been many additions for the player character and customizing it. I imagine the consideration now is the balance around the classes first

[ancient ferry]

I like lizard and i understand the helmet deal but i dont think 20 armor is enough u lose out on good helmet stats playing lizardmen its like the race is only good for roleplay and naked runs

[glacial hollow]

WARLOCK IS DEAD. THX @keen onyx THE CLASS IS UNPLAYABLE IN PVP OR PVE YOU KILLED THE CLASS WITH THE NERV

[sonic nova]

why do bards still do insane damage from throwing drums? why has that not been nerfed?

[undone finch]

please make a ratman character race thank you

[obtuse hedge]

a POLL system like osrs to see if the community would like the change or not, or to compare suggested content

[lone crescent]

Slayer nerf when?

[serene knoll]

might be op but maybe cleric has an ability like meditate on the wizard like you sit and do like a prayer or something to get a few spells back faster

[neat cloud]

I have to agree, lock feels like shit now.

We need a matchmaking system that separates top geared players and starter gear or whatever

[sinful flare]

Guys wizard is the most geriatric fat bozo class in the game warlock also got fked but wizard is just doomed

[neat cloud]

Yeah there's a lot of agrbage happening right now

[sinful flare]

Run nuclear build warlock with no spells it works

Additional dmg + crystal sword one taps

[neat cloud]

What perks do you run with no spell?

[sinful flare]

Shield, will

You just boc someone and use phantomize and after phantomize is over you use boc again and gg

[neat cloud]

Interesting. I'll try for the hell of it

[sinful flare]

Crystal sword needs to be blue at least to do some good dmg imo

It is a meme build but it is now better for warlock than any other build

[neat cloud]

That's so lame man. the double health lost is running Immortal lament is such a uneeded nerf...

[sinful flare]

If they want to do that they need to add occultist gloves that gives magical healing and then it might be ok

[neat cloud]

True, they did the helmet but it's not enough IMO

[sinful flare]

True* the helmet is nowhere near worth.
But I do agree the dmg on curse of pain should be reduced or at least have some penalty over additional and magic power dmg

Because if you are geared warlock it is kinda op the fact you kill people with 3-4 curses and you can spam it.
But I still think they are doing this class wrong, they need to make the spells do less dmg but keep the cost like before

[woeful elm]

with lizards not being able to wear helmets, there are some hats and hoods that could fit on like the bard hats, chaperon and wizard hat as they can be placed on the head without much issue with clipping. there will have to be reworks with the armour rating change but i think its something to consider.

and the fact that bards, rogues, wizards and rangers. who don't wear helmets, can wear hoods and hats if they were lizards and could just get the extra armour rating if they could.

[dim jetty]

Bring back item caps

[zealous rose]

The lizard missing a helmet for only for extra armor rating isn't a good enough trade off IMO. Perhaps they could be given an extra pendant or ring slot in addition to the armor bonus

[fair oasis]

I have suggested things here before. shoudl be repeatedly doing so for anyoen to actually see / hear it?

[dim jetty]

Wow, crazy how you wipe yet again yet the same problem arises 2 days and theres mobs of geared tf out players farming people just trying to progress, great patch work

[graceful falcon]

I have a suggestion regarding the recent haste and invis nerfs for wizard (namely the haste changes). As a wizard player I find both those spells quite essential for surviving classes that can easily rush you down and kill you (barbarian, rogue, fighter). While I think it's a great idea to try and nerf buffball, I feel a better way to go about it would be to revert the haste and invis buffs and instead make it to where wizard can only cast those spells on themselves. This would completely nerf buffball while leaving wizard with good counterplay to fast melee classes that can kill them in one to two hits. Love this game Ironmace, thank you

[dim jetty]

it's almost like you should bring back item caps, which clearly was the solution the problem in the first place

[hasty sail]

Did you guys even play test warlock? The class wasn't even close to overpowered and now it just feels awful.

[bleak dagger]

yeah its not like a wizard cant kill anyone with 2 zaps

[grave torrent]

give us a testing range we can go in with friends to test kits and make sure we are building correctly

[obtuse lichen]

oh no wizard can be killed now how to play we should buff wizards!!

Also 20 armor from a lizard skin is a joke when we have a leather cap in the game that gives 20 armor and 8% headshot damage reduction

Skin should give at least 40 armor to compensate no helmet penalty

Also fighter is a lot stronger after recent buffball nerfs because he is more self confident class and barb is mostly one trick
The only way to kill fighter on the barbarian is to run reckless attack
And i know what im talking about since im playing on the both characters
It seems funny to me how i have 150 hp and 70% pdr fighter and like 180 hp and like 30% pdr barb
Because on the barb i have to go for a mobility otherwise i have to fill half of my inventory with throwables to kill agile classes and not get kited
+Purple falchion has 43 dmg +2 weapon damage roll
seems really balanced
My fighter deals 100 dmg+ in the head rn with a falchion and i dont really see a point of playing on the barbarian at least in teams
Because barb rn is more position dependent and really bad at staying alive unless you use onetrick achilles and blood exchange
Also why the heck they keep nerfing barbarian chestpiece
It was already bad and regal gambeson is just the way better than northern full tunic

also not running throwables on the barb is basically throwing but if you do run throwables you loose a lot of a money

[small furnace]

i dont really see a point of playing on the barbarian

The barbarian in question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z43yiD1-1YM

[obtuse lichen]

Read it properly

[small furnace]

I did, I still think it's funny.

[obtuse lichen]

using broken skill combo doesn't reflect the state that barbarian at rn
Because it's probably gonna get fixed

[small furnace]

I just think it's funny you're tryin to convince people barb is bad right now.

[obtuse lichen]

I think it's funny the class that is supposted to tank magical damage doesn't tanks it anymore also has no movement speed
And can kill fighters only if running reckless

WdYm BRo JuST use BLood exchangE barB is OP rn

[small furnace]

I think barb is pretty strong even without it as it stands, and I think you're weird for trying to convince people otherwise.

[obtuse lichen]

The barb is good with a starter kit or low budget kits and that's it

[small furnace]

I appreciate the delineation you're making but that isn't what I meant. That's all.

[old sluice]

Why do people complain so much? If you don't like how a class plays then don't play it... I feel like the player whining tries to make the developers deviate from their original vision of the game

[short heath]

This has happened for every online game known to man.

[real trellis]

Constructive criticism and feedback with suggestions are good for the game. Crying in here, general chat, or wherever else is not.

[obtuse lichen]

nah bro im just complaining

[plucky hamlet]

then why not make the entire dungeon pitch black and have everyone one-shot each other with one attack? and let's just run around blindly waving our pps; it's br@indead whenever you getting hit by 1 thing = death; imagine getting hit by wizard fireball meant death; imagine if getting headshot by most of weapons equaled death; i mean each of those things require more skill than a ranger putting down a trap under a corpse

[real trellis]

Why are you in here yapping about something from general chat

[ripe turtle]

Can we please get a cooldown for Summon Hydra spell? This one epic geared Warlock in Goblin Caves spammed that spell on doorways which was just stupid.

[tiny wigeon]

Hydra costs a lot of hp to cast, he is casting it then he puts curses on it to heal himself back up, I recommend attacking the hydra, if u kill the hydra , he won’t get hp back, and can’t spam it

[oblique lava]

i feel like warlock should start with a junk crystal sword. I feel like that just makes much more sense to me since hes giving off the whole spell blade vibe

[ripe turtle]

Still, Warlocks can somehow cast the same spell over and over again without repercussions, especially the geared ones which, in my opinion is not ideal way to go. I'd say the summoning spells should have some sort of cooldown so geared Warlocks cannot abuse it against players without gear or just greens equipped.

[ripe turtle]

Hmmmm....Lizardmen having a chameleon racial trait? A bit OP?

[sharp raven]

Physical power buff should be removed entirely. I genuinely believe it would balance better. Right now im seeing people sacrifice higer tier gear for lower tier gear if they have phys power.

[real trellis]

Torture mastery makes all spells cost double so the warlock is spending 20+10 minimum just to start regenerating off of the hydra - this is not viable except at high gear levels with a ton of mheal stacking. At lower gear it's better to eschew torture mastery and use Life Drain on a Hydra instead.

[tiny wigeon]

True , so what ur saying is , just hit the hydra asap

[real trellis]

Attacking a hydra in melee is not recommended as you will eat their fireballs unless you're a rogue with a shortsword

Hell I don't know if even that is fast enough to dodge 'em at such short range

Better to try to throw something at the warlock as they can't move while using life drain

[pulsar marsh]

was a day one player but i will now be moving on from this game due to constant teaming in dungeons mainly goblin caves but others still aswell good day gents.

[pulsar marsh]

this game just keeps getting darker and darker :/

[tiny wigeon]

ive done it many times on cleric, the fireballs are really easy to dodge

[rugged summit]

So I made a list of 10 Spells that I think should be added for the Wizard class. I think right now the reason some of these wizard nerfs feel bad, is because of the lack of variety available to the Wizard. Increasing the amount of spells to choose from will open up many new playstyles. and make the Wizard feel less stale.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/17nicq5/wizard_a_list_of_additional_spells_to_improve/

[covert shore]

Please consider faster sitting health regeneration

minutes out of combat with a limited time in dungeon destroys productivity, competitiveness, and survival

[earnest night]

Make it possible to combine 5-7 green jewelry (ex courage) and transform it into random modifier blue courage same thing with blue to purple

[white cliff]

They wanted to slow the pace it’s why they nerfed a ton of things effecting the speed of buff ball. Also you can stack pots and bandages infinitely you shouldn’t ever be sitting for health lol.

[covert shore]

well then get rid of the mechanic?? AFAIK Regen ahsnt changed at all. and you only really need to regen to save pots/bandages or your out. Do not disregard the mechanic in favor of a meta arrangement of getting by it

[terse pier]

remove all ranger's abilities and they might be balanced

[sly bough]

how can i report a cheater?¿

[mild kelp]

let us see our playtime

[idle kindle]

I get not being able to wear helmets, but Lizards should get hood type headgears

[proud zephyr]

Longsword mastery for fighter

[jolly ledge]

Arrows and bolts should really be able to be put into inventory until higher quality arrows are added to game, this could be done by making current arrows and bolts common instead of junk.

[wet mortar]

zweihander should have either a block or right click transforms into a half blading stance to give you a short range option that does less damage with lower range but faster attacks

[terse pier]

and hats

[vivid finch]

yo

[jolly ledge]

hoods 100%

[vivid finch]

can anybody here suggest me how to counter rangers?

[terse pier]

play ranger

tbh I'm shocked ranger got buffed, wild

[obtuse skiff]

junk crystal sword as default for warlock?

[coral glen]

I was thinking.... Now Wizard is slow af in team fights... An idea to fix this and still prevent buffball meta is to turn the Haste and Slow spells into just one spell... If the wizard cast on himself = movespeed... if he cast on others = slow... what do you guys think?

[terse pier]

don't hate it, haste seems a bit useless now

[long blade]

ranger is in the best place it's been in in a long time lol. As in not broken and not terrible.

[vivid finch]

ewww but why is this the only counter? see this is why this game is unplayable they seriously need to fix this ranger problem, I ask for a suggestive way to counter rangers and I get a response to play as them bruh.. that's just wild i'm seriously disgusted by this class

[long blade]

Ranger really is just not that broken lmao. You want ranger gone? Enjoy getting destroyed by barbs or wizards.

[terse pier]

agreed, ranger is a problem

[vivid finch]

what makes you say that

[terse pier]

rangers having access to disgusting, consistent damage at any range in a melee focussed game is problematic

[long blade]

If you cant just come to these conclusions yourself I dont think you are attempting to think critically and are just reacting emotionally because you died to a ranger. No where have they ever said this game is melee focused, stop saying that.

[terse pier]

No I've had consistently awful gameplay experiences against rangers, they're the most anti-fun class in the game
Bro 90% of the game focusses around melee, even the spellcasters have heavy restrictions on how much they can spam spells whereas rangers are out here spawning with 40 arrows

[vivid finch]

Probably who knows after the end of the day I stopped playing DnD for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Rangers.. how is this still going after all these time its been months now I don't think this is no longer emotion reaction this is an actual issue, I don't play with friends and get sht on by a team with a ranger that sabotages everything

today I played with my brother who I'd say its even better than me at this game and yet no luck cause of some random ranger who was shooting my feet while his fighter slowly kept poking me from a distance

[terse pier]

Rangers could be gutted in terms of perks and abilities, and they'd still be a viable class because having access to consistent ranged poke damage combined with being faster than most characters when they holster weapons, that cheap playstyle of "kiting", is insanely strong

Also the tower section in Ruins really is just there for rangers to abuse, they turned it from a rogue map to a ranger map

[tiny wigeon]

Biggest thing in dark and darker is knowing what fights to go for
Maybe u have to go around a couple rooms to get near the ranger, just don’t try push him in a hallway, be smart
If you can see them , they can see you; but if u can’t see them , they can’t see u , be smart

[vivid finch]

Sadly and I was a rogue main til these ranger buffs I had to play tanky so I now start playing as barb and yet still same results from these rangers if I don't get one shot as rogue then I get 50 arrows with slowdown stuck in my legs while his teammates finishes me off

[tiny wigeon]

Why are y trying to rush a ranger? That’s what they want u to do , if u can’t make the distance, don’t try, just cause u see a player doesn’t mean u gotta go fight him right away

[terse pier]

I do have a good amount of success on my Fighter dealing with rangers, having a shield, projectile resistance, and also a crossbow can be a good way to put catch them

[vivid finch]

I know I've always ran away to tight places to make the ranger uncomfortable but guess what? he was right in front of my face sticking arrows at my feet while I get stabbed in the back by his teammate lol

[terse pier]

Avoidance isn't always a viable option, especially when you consider how persistant some players can be for kills and the fact the game forces players together with the zone mechanic

[vivid finch]

nobody here should ever tell me to play smart you guys have no idea how much time I spent of finding ways to counter these rangers.. its not my first time

[vivid finch]

It isn't if they stick you with an arrow from a mile away 🤣 I know when it comes to these fights its almost impossible to run off, what I do is go to places where rangers aren't really comfortable with I play barb with my brother who plays wizard we plan things through and end up failing anyways cause they have a ranger in their team, and him as wizard he can't just freaking kill him with zap or magic missiles before the ranger killing him first.

[tiny wigeon]

I’m sorry man , but ur complaints are just kind of low level skill issues, rangers stopped being op after they changed weapon damage roll on every piece of gear, now they are fine, ofc they are good at long range, that’s what the class is about, if it was easy for a barbarian or a fighter to get next to a ranger, the class would be complete trash
Take dmg from the zone, it’s better then opening the door to a ranger that’s in your face ready to shoot

[vivid finch]

Besides I've played for so long now since playtest #2 yet never had this ranger problem til' now, me and my bro noticed how we suck at fighting rangers than a whole team without a ranger we just wipe them out easily no complaints

[long blade]

Rangers just arent OP anymore, either learn to play against them or just go afk and let them kill you. In this case it's absolutely a skill issue.

[vivid finch]

well how did you think I started this conversation? do you think I just came here to complain?

[long blade]

Your opinions havent really been that good, I dont feel that inspired to read up.

[vivid finch]

waste of my time.

[visual violet]

can you guys just remake the bottom 3 tiles in GC HR they arne't fun, are trash to loot and have nothing worth looting ( if you arent gemming) the spawns are trash there. its giant mob density with shit rooms thathave just open pits for no reason

[hot hemlock]

So then dont loot them and spend your time traveling to somewhere with loot or fights

[terse pier]

So how do you counterplay ranger?

[granite plinth]

be a fighter with a crossbow, easy

[fathom bolt]

Play ranger

[terse pier]

I already suggested that homie 😉

[short heath]

Very situational. Use terrain/map layout to force them into an unfavorable encounter is realistically the only true answer right now, assuming the Ranger isn't in an anti-ball comp and you aren't running a buffball comp. It's going to be more on your team comp vs their team comp than anything. If you're talking about GC or in a 1v1 situation, the answer to this is the former AND that the game isn't balanced around 1v1 combat. It likely never will be. So, if that's your specific question/complaint, it's a moot point. There are plenty of answers to Ranger that depend on team comps, ring location and your location relative to their team and where ring is... too situational to try to give a good answer as asked.

[terse pier]

Thanks for an actual response man, and yheah I agree with your points.

[fathom bolt]

Honestly I just hope the ranger can’t aim and I’ll try to get some ranged attacks in while they’re reloading

[terse pier]

So do you also think rangers are overpowered atm?

[fathom bolt]

Depending on the scenario you can’t always just push them

[short heath]

Strong, yes. Overpowered, no.

[terse pier]

Agreed or the good ol' crouch spam n head bob

[short heath]

Until they add more significant damage drop off, Rangers will always be either strong or in the gutter. There's not really any middle ground, because they always will have the advantage of ranged combat prowess, because spellcasters are slower to dps and melee combat is the majority of the game by design. So if you even give them comparable dps on paper, that's going to be understated in actual gameplay since they'll be able to dps while you close the gap, assuming they see you before you're literally on their face, in a theoretical world. But the moment you put their damage into the dirt, they're going to feel terrible against AI and won't feel like they're doing significant damage to players as a literal DPS class, so it's a fine line to balance.

[terse pier]

Yep, it is a fine line, but generally having access to a bow (and consistent ranged damage) is a huge boon in this game. Solutions like drop off would be interesting. Alternatively I've seen lots of suggestions of something like a charging of the shot, e.g. you can fire a weak, quick shot or a powerful long ranged draw.

[north edge]

PLEASE buff wizard. at least have some of the dev team or whoever is in charge of testing the game to see how frustating it is to play wizard currently.

[fathom bolt]

Just revert haste change, make haste less powerful when cast on other targets

[short heath]

I haven't played Wizard yet since the patch hit, I'll have to play it tonight.

[north edge]

thank you

[terse pier]

haste does seem a bit pointless, maybe just nerfing the move speed would have been good enough. The invis change I am a big fan of personally though

[long girder]

Add a kicking mechanic for breakings barrels, moving boxes/barrels with said kick etc

[tiny wigeon]

fucking well said

[small furnace]

Ranger is in a fine place rn. They're strong, but so are many other classes. They aren't ridiculously overpowered in comparison to those. They just get an unnecessarily large amount of hate because many timmies can't fathom playing against a ranger and doing anything but holding W+M1 at them. They get hit and killed before they ever get to the ranger and then they complain they're OP because they have no idea how to counterplay.

Also the point about the ruins map is fair, but the ruins map is just not balanced at all lol, I avoid ruins like the plague even when I'm playing with 2 people I always go crypts.

Also post damage nerfs, ranger is currently one of the most underplayed classes if you go by trading post numbers. So it's really doubtful we should be nerfing a class that very few people are playing.

[short heath]

I think the only changes I'd make is just making damage drop off slightly worse and starting at a shorter distance. Otherwise, yeah. They're strong still, but not nerf-worthy.

[small furnace]

I think any nerf to them right now is going to have a pretty negative effect. I've been playing slayer fighter a lot since the new patch dropped and whenever I get a good bow I just CANNOT sell it because of how few ranger players are actually playing the game and in the post. I'd like to see them incentivize more people to play the class before they start nerfing if at all.

Problem is though they do ANYTHING like that and every single timmy is going to cry because every single timmy has rated ranger as S+ tier even when they were at their lowest point last patch.

[elfin vale]

im owning with it, u just have to actually play like a ranged dps and not a rogue, im 2 - 3 shotting with zaps in good gear. class is fine

[north edge]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506323/buff-wizard

[north edge]

I highly disagree. i play with him as a main, tried most strats. most classes can just outright hold W and 2 shot or 3 shot you and damage is low

[short heath]

That's just what happens to classes that are actually skill-dependent. If you can hit your shots, you'll dumpster people before they can close the distance. If not, you will die to them pressing W and lmb at you. I think damage drop off needs to be more harsh because Rangers have significantly more range than Wizards and Warlocks specifically, and they can abuse open layouts (like Ruins) way more easily. Making drop off more harsh would solve those problems without making Ranger invalidated.

[small furnace]

The difference is though, wizard as a skill based class gets people begging for buffs (as we can see rn) but when ranger is a more skill based class everyone is STILL asking for it to be nerfed on repeat even when they're at their absolute lowest.

Just rough cause I don't really find myself wanting to play a class that at the roll of a dice might get overnerfed because of whiners that can't dodge.

[terse pier]

Imo ranger isn't that skill based outside of aiming, you get showered in ammo and PvE is trivial when you have range

[short heath]

People are crying for Wizard buffs right now because they lost what made the class able to kite, not because they aren't dealing damage anymore. Different scenario.

[short heath]

There's a massive difference between a good Ranger and a bad Ranger. MASSIVE. It is probably the most skill dependent class in the game. You have to worry about positioning relative to the ring, opposing teams, within your current room, take into account arrow velocity and projectile drop depending on what type of weapon you're using.

Wizard, by comparison, has to worry about positioning and resource management. There is no projectile drop, and Fireball for example is a HUGE hitbox compared to an arrow or a bolt, that also has splash damage. So while you still have to aim, you do not have to be anywhere near as precise for a similar effect. Wizard is another skill based class, imo, but Ranger certainly takes the cake.

Pve should be trivial for anyone who has played the game longer than 2 weeks, so that's a moot point.

[north edge]

yeah and it was the only thing saving wizards... Movespeed goes underground when you cast spells, wizard staff makes super slow casting and slows down a lot. haste was nerfed half correctly i think. for example, maybe either half the MS bonus? or just make it so self casting gave speed but not to others, nerfing the buffball meta

and i disagree about the damage. the wizard damage is lower and doesnt feel strong, at all.

[terse pier]

So what, you're saying wizard is harder to play than ranger? I definitely agree. I just don't think ranger is as hard. There's less to manage, you have much easier projectiles to land

[north edge]

if they are going to have lower health, low defenses and low movement speed, at least give them damage

[short heath]

No, I'm saying the opposite. Wizard is much easier to play than Ranger.

[inland imp]

warlock now feels like the only thing they can build is magical healing, which makes them super gear dependent now, and wrecks whaat little damage potential they had. why did they do this?

[terse pier]

I'm sorry but we're gonna have to disagree there, Ranger is this games baby class imo

[north edge]

i disagree, survivability for ranger is far better. a 3 times use perk with heal, traps, long range damage. wizard gets stomped

[short heath]

Wizards can deal 70% of a whole team's health in a single Chain Lightning that they chain onto them from a corpse, around a corner or through a closed door. You guys are high.

[tiny wigeon]

I agree with onyx, you guys are high

[terse pier]

Wizard is far less forgiving than Ranger. You can half health your team in trios, you have no easy access to healing, your projectiles are much slower and harder to hit

[north edge]

then nerf chain lightning. or high end wizard gear. something like that. but damage for low and mid gear is trash. especially for solo gaming

[tiny wigeon]

this

[terse pier]

Meanwhile ranger can ping you for full headshot damage from anywhere he has LOS

[north edge]

Actually try to play wizard, from grey gear to up. in solo. lets see how much fun it is and how much damage you actually do

[short heath]

You're probably just playing the class poorly, honestly. Especially considering your egregious claim that every Ranger will just aimbot you from 80m away.

[terse pier]

Where did I claim that? 😂

[short heath]

Hello?

[terse pier]

Did I say aimbot?? Hello?

[north edge]

Play wizard and see how your MS is trash, you can cast 2 spells before anyone is right on top of you stabbing and slashing, killing you in 2 hits

[short heath]

The game isn't ever going to be balanced around solos.

[north edge]

and high end damage spells (fireball, chain lightning, lightning strike) cant be used up close because you damage yourself and help the enemy. no wonder you rarely see wizards in lobbys anymore

[short heath]

Not literally, but claiming "anywhere he has LOS" and "headshot" is effectively the same thing. That's just a disingenuous claim to make and your argument is worth nothing now because of it. Not to mention that damage drop off does exist, so the further they hit you from the less they'll damage they will deal.

[terse pier]

No, you're just putting words in my mouth. Who's disingenuous?

[north edge]

I really dont understand the bias against wizard. i play all classes and its extremely clear which ones are okay/strong and which ones arent. i play barb and feel quite strong. I play fighter and i feel strong, i play ranger and even though i have bad aim mst of the time, i feel decent in damage. warlock has great survivability and decent damage, wizard however, its a CHORE to play

[terse pier]

Regardless, Ranger is the only class in the game with access to consistent ranged damage. It is literally playing on easy mode. I don't play ranger because they're too boring

[short heath]

There is no situation in which "anywhere he has LOS" a Ranger will just be able to immediately headshot you from no matter what the scenario is, and to be frank, if he is able to hit a headshot on you from a distance that is so far that you actually can't do anything about it from, he would probably have dumpstered you anyway because he's actually good at the game.

[north edge]

you go to class discussion and almost everyone in wizards says the same and that it sucks to play it

[short heath]

It's not a bias, it's reality. They don't need a buff. They're literally one of the strongest dps classes in the game at top tier. Losing movement speed on Haste does not make them deserving of a buff.

[terse pier]

The point specifically we were talking about was comparing ranger to wizard, and in that comparison yes the ranger is much more able to ping you from LOS whereas the wizard actually needs to close the gap or hit a telegraphed AF fire ball that's easy to dodge

[visual violet]

for the love of ZUES please nerf fucking TRAPS

[inland imp]

they have lol. many times

[short heath]

They already did 3 times, lul.

[north edge]

thats my point, buff low and mid (and if you see fit, nerf top tier) but until you get there, it sucks to play

[visual violet]

im in a fucking trap with a 3k Kit and im dying to no gear rangers hdiding in the dark while drinking 2 green prot pots its so fucking lame

[short heath]

Look down next time, baddie.

[inland imp]

it is the strongest mechanic in the game

[terse pier]

I think cast time floor could be argued is a bit low, but still it emphasizes good planning so I don't think they're so weak thery're in need of a buff urgently

[inland imp]

even if the trap did literally 1 damage every 3 seconds, it would still be strong

[north edge]

numbers speak for themselves, most people dont play wizard for a reason

[terse pier]

Aren't actual numbers quite hard to judge?

[visual violet]

its literally in a body it doesnt matter if i look down. and yeah thats fun. spawn me into a lobby where i cant walk around and see the other classes bc im last in the lobby soi have 0 clue there is a ranger and let me look face down the whole game

[short heath]

You're only talking about an ideal scenario for the Ranger when you make these comparisons, though. That's the problem with your argument. Like I said, Wizard is ridiculously strong and capable in the appropriate scenarios as well, even in low-mid tier play. They don't need a buff.

[visual violet]

for a free and literal 24 g item thats always alive never runs out, can have infinite placements, you can walk half way across the map from it makes sense

[terse pier]

No I'm not, in a vacuum a wizard and a ranger walk into a room, the ranger has the inherent advantage in terms of range and maneuverability especially with the haste nerfs

[north edge]

whatever, you try actually playing it. i give up trying to talk sense into someone who doesnt play it

[short heath]

Dawg, what you just described is an ideal scenario for a Ranger as opposed to a Wizard, lol.

[terse pier]

I'm not arguing wizard is weak, I'm literally just saying ranger is not as skillful a class as you seem to think. It's the easiest class in the game

[terse pier]

Naw ideal scenario would be on top of the tower, trapped tf up, set up already

[short heath]

If it is the easiest class in the game to play then why are Ranger player counts the lowest they've ever been right now?

[terse pier]

How do you know they're low? Trades?

[short heath]

That's one indicator, yes.

[terse pier]

They certainly don't feel low to me, I see plenty in every single game. You have no idea how many rangers are actually online based on the trade population.

Chances are the majority of players in those chats are just other classes selling their ranger gear

[short heath]

I do play Wizard, lol. And I'm telling you that even when I'm not geared, Haste movement speed is almost never the factor that wins a fight for me.

[somber wind]

Unnerf Shriek; doesn't have to be completely but 300 range is low enough to not use it at all as it's asking to die if you use it. Yeah I'mma just debuff you in striking range, nah dude; I'd rather have to hit 2 more times.

Shriek is literally just dead as of this patch.

[tiny wigeon]

@short heath i respect ur tenacity at trying to argue gecko and sergregg, holy shit, just reading this makes me tired

[short heath]

Someone has to talk sense in here.

[terse pier]

same

[tiny wigeon]

what this man said here, is exactly it, this is why timmies complain about rangers, they legit just running at them, most likely not even trying to crouch and look down or up to dodge shots, and then die, and complain about state of the game

[terse pier]

so many disingenuous gamers out here "talking sense"

[tiny wigeon]

it is actually so easy to not die to a ranger, its insane
and u sergregg saying "Meanwhile ranger can ping you for full headshot damage from anywhere he has LOS" dude..... ur so disconnected from this game its insane

[short heath]

Don't make a stupid claim and I won't call you stupid.

[terse pier]

you're so disconnected from the conversation it's insane

[tiny wigeon]

good one

[terse pier]

it was because we were talking ranger vs wizard, the wizard has to play cover for his life, meanwhile the ranger projectile and damage base to base is frankly absurd

[short heath]

Wizard can take 3 people, a whole ass team, to 30% each with a single spell.

[terse pier]

yeah when they're gotten the gear to do that kinda damage

[short heath]

The. Game. Is. Not. Balanced. Around. Having. No. Gear. Or. 1v1s.

[terse pier]

That. Is. Your. Opinion.

[short heath]

LOL YOU ACTUALLY JUST SAID THAT.

[tiny wigeon]

there are 8 classes, 3 maps, solos, duos and trios, there are open rooms, and smaller rooms, the game will never be balanced in all of these different situations, but u still think ranger is the easiest class in dark and darker, which is insane

[short heath]

Holy moly, get me out.

[terse pier]

LOL I ACTUALLY DID!!11!! If the 1v1 mode was so frivalous why did they bother putting a high roller mode? Are you trying to say any semblance of class balance is pointless because support classes exist?

[short heath]

Have you read a single thing the devs have written?

[tiny wigeon]

onyx, im surprised he knows how to read

[short heath]

Go educate yourself before speaking about balance, please. Learn what the devs have said.

[terse pier]

LOL And what you know about balance? Meanwhile it's questionable if the devs have any idea how to balance this game??

[short heath]

I have 32 years of experience balancing games, bud.

[terse pier]

Ohh okay sorry Mr Game Developer man, like that means you're the authority on all design decisions?
You still didnt account for the fact that you were disingenous by claiming I said rangers have aimbot?

[short heath]

You're the person who thinks that just because a Ranger has LOS on you that they're immediately going to just hit your face, not me.

[terse pier]

I didn't say that either, for someone with 32 years behind them you're awfully presumptious

[short heath]

You literally did.

#suggestion-discussion message

[terse pier]

🧢 I literally didn't? Ping meaning hitting a headshot?

[short heath]

PING YOU FOR FULL HEADSHOT DAMAGE. Read your own message, you absolute Neanderthal.

[terse pier]

Idk why you think I meant immediately, bows aren't hitscan fyi

[short heath]

Oh, so now you will cave and say that Rangers have to actually aim and understand lead times and projectile drop? Nice 180.

So, in conclusion, they DO take skill.

[terse pier]

Bro you're really misquoting me, I literally said aiming was the only part of ranger that did take skill

[short heath]

Alright so just unbind your movement keys then go play Ranger, see how well you do. Hell, I'll let you have your movement keys even, just cover up your map.

[terse pier]

That's a really overblown statement, you're clearly a bit emotional so I'll leave you be now mr mature game developer man

[short heath]

It's not overblown at all, I'm taking your words literally and challenging you to check your own claim.

[terse pier]

Naw 💀 🧢

[short heath]

Yeah, exactly. You know you're being egregious and that you're wrong. Not confident in your own ability or statements that have no foundation, so you won't go do it. Weak ass.

[terse pier]

You're the one literally talking about unbinding movement keys 😂 child

[short heath]

All you gotta do is aim bro. Go do it.

[deep heart]

Make ranger traps be set off by throwables

[tiny wigeon]

LOOOOOOL

[wintry thunder]

Lizards need some built-in headshot damage reduction for sure.

[abstract vortex]

great suggestion, being forced to go a different way or eat 2 arrows while disarming it is lame

@short heath do you do anything but fight with people in this discord? i come by and read it from time to time cuz theres genuinely some good suggestions and all i see is you crying and arguing 24/7 and its getting old. kindly shut ya mouth and let others have opinions pls 🙂
edit:dont bother responding, i dont care and wont read it

[short heath]

I call out stupid when I see stupid. Sorry, I guess. And I've explained this many times to people who ask similar questions - my line of work allows me to sit on Discord frequently.

If you didn't want a response, then don't bother saying shit and especially not @ing me in whatever you're saying. Good talk.

[abstract vortex]

nobody cares about your line of work. it is not a reason to let your massively inflated ego surpress other peoples opinions.
so as i said, shut ya mouth and let others have opinions. nobody gives a singular f.k about you or your toxicity in this chat

[short heath]

It's not toxic to tell people that what they're complaining about or suggesting is a non-issue or would be bad for x/y/z reasons, bud. Or that the game isn't balanced around 1v1s or having no gear.

[abstract vortex]

this is where youre too simpleminded to comprehend. its not toxic to say why you dont agree with an opinion. whats toxic is calling people stupid for having them, and disregarding any valid reason as irrelevant solely because you are incapable of seeing perspectives other than your own.

[signal burrow]

I think the ranger vs wizard is a very hard battle, but it is not unbalanced. Realistically its a contest of skill, the wizard has longer cast times, but hits like a truck, where as ranger has fast dps, but hurts less. The ranger wants to be further away where as the wizard wants to be mid range. Dodging arrows vs dodging spells. Literally a contest of skill in regards to your aim, and dodging capabilities.

[short heath]

Calling an opinion stupid is not calling a person stupid. I call people stupid after they've shown that they cannot see the perspective that isn't theirs after I've given them objective evidence to support why their opinion on a matter is flawed in whatever manner.

[signal burrow]

Anywho, this blood exchange/achilles strike is a bit ridiculous, but I wouldnt mind it if Blood exchange took a full white campfire to recharge. What do you guys think?

[short heath]

Thank you for having a brain.

In a fair fight that doesn't favor either person, it would still very much be a skill check for both players. My point was that as a Ranger you have more things that require mechanical skill to account for in addition to the mental capacity associated with consistently being cognizant of the ring as it closes, your position relative to enemy teams and the ring as it pertains to overall map pathing, and if in combat, you must also be extremely aware of your position within a room, whereas the Wizard has invis still that they can use as a sort of "oh shit I'm getting pushed" button, so to speak, if we're talking about team fighting. Regardless, in a 3v3, as either class if you are in melee range, you're probably wrong.

[short heath]

I'm honestly surprised they didn't immediately hotfix it to not trigger on every tick of Achilles dot or off of hitting breakable objects. Seems like a massive oversight to me, and certainly shouldn't operate the way it currently does.

[tiny wigeon]

onyx ignore this lil @abstract vortex, he just jealous that u have an actual brain and make good points, i think its nice that some ppl are on the channel and try educate ppl why their opinion is bad, its fine to have an opinion, but some opinions are bad for the game

[short heath]

Hard to take a man seriously when he idolizes kush so much that he puts it in his moniker on all platforms. Sad, really, that he couldn't come up with anything meaningful.

[tiny wigeon]

its prob sergreggs alt account hahah

[languid swift]

That's a problem. It should be balanced around all gear phases. (Player count matchups are a different story. That can't reasonably be helped)

[short heath]

I'll explain why it isn't when I get home. Give me a moment.

[languid swift]

Read: should be, not is.

[short heath]

I also believe it shouldn't be, though. I'll explain.

[languid swift]

To elaborate a bit, I don't necessarily think it should be balanced around all gear phases. But I do think it should at least be balanced around both the low end and the high end. If you're not balancing around the low end, I think you're basically forfeiting an audience of non-meta players.

Some people might say "Good, get those filthy casuals out of here," but would that really be good for the health of the game?

[terse pier]

I love living rent free in your head my man

[terse pier]

You are really drinking your own koolaid bro

[short heath]

Alright, I'll address things in a somewhat logical order, but first we gotta make a distinction here - non-meta can be a slew of different things, and base kit is really the only standing point to go by when referring to "low end", considering the fact that anyone who just goes out and buys greens or blues with no applicable/beneficial stats beyond the base values (armor, mr, damage, magical damage) is either too new at the game for their case to matter, or they're just a weirdo.

So, in terms of base kits, the game is fairly well balanced. Each class has things they can excel at and each class has downfalls that make them undesired in a multitude of scenarios. Not very often are players literally in base kits. If you try to balance off of base kits, you'll end up in a loop that comes back to any form of range is OP, which is what we already see from certain individuals who are still hating on Rangers even though they just got buffed this hotfix because they were in the dirt last hotfix. You'll either nerf Ranger too much, or buff other classes too much, and the cycle will continue. When you focus on endgame and have done well with your balancing, most of the actual balancing starts to be determined by how well optimized gearing is (meaning it is player-driven). Gear efficiency should matter more at the top and less at the bottom innately for a game that is well-balanced, meaning that min-maxers will still win the stat battle, but maybe not always the actual physical battle, assuming skill levels are equal and comps are not hard countered when in 3v3 situations. Does that make sense?

Tl;dr - balancing at low end always causes balance loops that will specifically end with (specific to this game in its current state) Ranger either being too OP or weak even to AI, which is highly undesirable. Balancing at high end can reach an actual end point that will only change based on the dev's vision of the meta, if they have one, and how they want comps to come together.

[languid swift]

I think I can agree with most of what you've said. But I do think grey vs grey matchups can be reasonably balanced, Not perfectly, no, but "good enough". I don't think they're quite at that point yet.

Obviously I'm biased here, but I do think a base Warlock is extraordinarily weak compared to any other base class that I've played, such as the Fighter, Cleric, and Wizard. I get the impression high-gear Warlock is pretty effective, and I can only imagine it's an issue with scaling.

[short heath]

Warlock is definitely weak in base kit currently, I agree.

[small furnace]

Honestly, why would we balance this game around not having any gear?

The whole point of this game is it's a dungeon crawler, you're supposed to be aspiring to get gear... for many of us that gear will cap out at certain levels. Some people will only ever see greens and blues, for some they'll be walking around in full purples in their ideal scenarios. Some people aspire to get legendary kits and those are the very top of the game get to play with uniques....

But those things should all be worth aspiring toward, so they SHOULD be more powerful and game SHOULD be balanced around gear progression as a result. This game would be absolutely mindless and boring if everyone could do everything at grey/base kit level. Give us something to work toward, something to grind for, and something to be proud of when we come out against the odds.

TL;DR if you don't balance this game around gear progression it's going to be boring and it will die. This game's combat alone is not enough to carry it perpetually.

[languid swift]

We're not arguing "Low Gear vs High Gear", it's "Low Gear vs Low Gear" that should be balanced.

[small furnace]

I am explicitly replying to the huge post that Onyx made in reply to the not so smart person that said this game should not be balanced around gear progression.

[short heath]

He wasn't here for that, might not have read it.

[languid swift]

Fair enough, I don't have that context. Just assumed based on chronology.

[short heath]

To conclude our conversation, there should be balance to low gear, but the game as a whole should not revolve around low gear balancing.

[languid swift]

I agree with this.

[livid mason]

nerf sprint and rage if you want the game slower

[short heath]

@merry kestrel where's your Fighter rework suggestion?

I personally don't think that Rage or Sprint contribute to the speed of the game being too high... individual skirmishes are fine being fast paced, especially considering there are many ways to counteract/avoid/literally murder W+LMB spammers that don't really think they just go.

[livid mason]

+10 movement speed, same as the speed shrine, percentage based buff is too strong

w+m1'er with speed only enable brain dead fighting

[lone crescent]

+10ms is useless

Rage being % based is worse than flat cause you get more ms with fist and less with your weapon out

When people say Rage is ooverpowered it's overreacting, sprint is way more strong

[small furnace]

Killing the movespeed shrine wasn't enough, this man goin after every movespeed buff higher than 10

[covert shore]

Combat log

[merry kestrel]

These?

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/496879/fighter-skillperk-revisions

[short heath]

Ye. Give em a read, guy who wants to change Sprint.

[merry kestrel]

Sprint and rage both need their MS bonus nerfed if the Double Jump nerf and Haste MS nerf stays

All speed needs to be nerfed at the same time in games like this.

[short heath]

Disagree. Not for effectively melee-only classes that don't have other significant options vs the slew of ranged dominance.

Fighter I can understand because Longbow and Crossbow kekw, but Barbarian should definitely not see a nerf in terms of movespeed, since they will just have absolutely no chance at high end.

Not to mention that not every Rogue took DJ, and most definitely don't take it now.

Barbs are like, the exact opposite of Wizards right now in terms of low end vs high end balancing. Barbs are insane stat checkers early, but almost garbage tier late... whereas Wizard has a slow start, but will Zap you once for 75% of your health late.

[small furnace]

Most highly minmaxed rogues did not take DJ because it took away from other essential damage dealing perks. At least... 2 patches ago that was the case. I am not fully up to date with the poverty that rogues dealt with last patch, and what they're up to this patch.

[merry kestrel]

imo Barbarian is poorly designed because it's just a wall of HP and damage, which is one of the hardest things to balance. Designers constantly make 'hard mode' just "more HP and damage" and it becomes a chore to deal with.

[merry kestrel]

Rogues suffer from perk bloat and will be in a bad spot gameplay-wise until that is dealt with.

[merry kestrel]

The problem with Barbs is that, because of the way stats scale, they scale really well with buffs across all tiers, low or high end.

We can discuss it in either a solo or trio format but Barbarians are going to be hard to balance until HP and damage scaling are dealt with in entirety.

[short heath]

They're linear as hell in their combat, though. It's fine to be a stat bomb if all you can do is W+LMB. You don't see many successful Barbs outside of buffball... you do see successful other classes outside of buffball. Being linear is fine, but they needed to work on tuning buffball down regardless of who was getting buffed - case in point there were dual Cleric + Wizard or Cleric/Fighter/Wizard buffballs doing the same thing as Barb.

[merry kestrel]

The reason it's not fine is that when your only win condition against a class is "do your best to stop him before he gets within melee range", and that class' win condition is "get into melee range", it becomes a one sided skill check. The class that is only a statblock does not need to outplay, they just need to capitalize on one mistake.

[dim jetty]

Bring back item caps, lower total player count per match

[merry kestrel]

Item caps were demonstrably bad for the game

[short heath]

When the skillcap of a stat block is 100 but the skillcap of a non-stat block is 10,000, its not hard to outplay. You're talking as if Barbs can literally just w through other similarly geared and skilled players all throwing everything they have at them, and that's not the case at all.

[merry kestrel]

Franciscas are just as strong of a ranged option as any other class has. A base stat barbarian with Axe Mastery deals 27.6 damage per franc, and they have significant range and speed (you can hold it to extend its range and speed).

In addition, making it so barbarians only have the one ranged option (Francs) means that it becomes a money problem, not a skill problem, to counter other classes. It's all around subpar.

[short heath]

Slow yourself down more while people are dpsing you and wasting time off your buff timers while they eat two axes that won't ever kill... not really an argument.

[merry kestrel]

The fact you don't think Francs kill tells me you've never gone against a barbarian with 20 of them in their inventory.

[short heath]

In the time it would take a Barb to kill someone with Franciscas, they'd be dead twice over.

[merry kestrel]

See this video in barbarian chat, it showcases franc usage well (you'll need to role select for barb)
#barbarian message

[dim jetty]

nah

[abstract vortex]

bring back VoIP pls

[deep citrus]

I think that 18 person Crypts is just too many. It tips the balance from being a good mix between PvE and PvP into too much PvP. If you want to PVP, you can go looking for it anyway, but 18 player dungeons force it.

[timid rose]

add duo HR pls

[sharp roost]

Please do major hotfixes with room to do a follow-up hotfix the next day. This means do not do a major hotfix on your FRIDAY if you are not going to work Saturday/Sunday. You're welcome for this common sense approach to game development.

[sinful bobcat]

Bro why are my friends who just started the game getting matched with people with full purple and legendary loadouts? Do gearscore lobby matchmaking.

[quartz jetty]

chill out lol

[sharp roost]

Or how about they use some common sense and do it right? Game is unplayable right now with barbarians so broken.

[quartz jetty]

stop complaining and get better at the game

[sharp roost]

Right...you're an idiot.

[quartz jetty]

[small furnace]

Idk if you're aware of this but barbarians literally have a bug in the game where they become near invincible. There's no 'getting better' and playing around that.

This bug should have never made it to the live game.

[fathom bolt]

the fact there hasnt been a hotfix is wild

[quartz jetty]

people complain and blame the game too much
rather than overcoming and getting good

[fathom bolt]

dawg fighting a barb 1v1 is literally useless, they heal to full within a second

[small furnace]

Right, sure, but telling someone to 'get better' as if they can play around this one is just unintelligent. They literally have so much health regen unless you are ACTUALLY one tapping them (not figuratively) you are not winning.

[quartz jetty]

thats just false lol

[fathom bolt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z43yiD1-1YM @quartz jetty

[small furnace]

I was going to find that, yeah. It's not false my man. The health regen literally regens their entire health bar within a second, for up to 8 seconds.

[quartz jetty]

I havent had an issue with it. Havent died to a barbarian in a long time

[fathom bolt]

anecdotal evidence >

[neat bison]

Make the bard playable again.

[small furnace]

Good for you, but the guy who was complaining was complaining that they let a bug that turns barbarian invincible for about 8 seconds into the game.

If that doesn't bother you then cool, if you haven't run into it, extra cool! People can't 'play around this' though, so stop acting so smug.

[quartz jetty]

I think people often just die bc they arent that good or see a youtube video and start whining rather than even having one second of thinking of how to outplay it

[fathom bolt]

the only outplay is to not get hit

[small furnace]

What you think is irrelevant, this tech exists in the game. It is currently live, go test it if you want.

[fathom bolt]

if you dont think this is broken please dont contribute to any more balance discussions lmfao

[sharp roost]

t_phish is an idiot, just block him at this point

[quartz jetty]

people be whining too much

[small furnace]

Then go attack the people begging for ranger and rogue to be nerfed on repeat every patch for like 10 patches straight.

Not the person who is complaining a literal super mario invincible star powerup exists in the game currently.

[quartz jetty]

Im not attacking anyone unlike @sharp roost. Im just stating that people complain too much rather than getting better

[small furnace]

This is an attack. It's not a 'literal' attack if you want to mince words but you're clearly going after someone by insulting their skill here.

[quartz jetty]

nah its stating a fact

[sharp roost]

Just block him. He's hopeless. Probably a conservative even.

[fathom bolt]

lmfao

[small furnace]

The fact is that because this guy does not want a barb invincibility bug to exist in the game that he needs to 'get better'? You have a strange idea of what facts are.

[quartz jetty]

you legit only get one blood exchange per game. how much of a problem actually is this? have you played the game recently?

[fathom bolt]

have you played? campfire resets it

[small furnace]

Can I introduce you to my friend in the woodsman named 'grey campfire'?

[fathom bolt]

no shot this guy isnt just trolling lmao

[quartz jetty]

less complaining, more improving and having fun playing the game 😃

[neat bison]

MAKE THE BARD PLAYABLE AGAIN

MAKE THE BARD PLAYABLE AGAIN

[next cave]

hard to have fun when you get on a losing streak and cant get gold to get heals or gear. seems like a depressing waste of time at the end of the night

[quartz jetty]

It takes time to get really good and consistently get out. Helps to have good teammates but its great once youre able to stack up!

[tepid pawn]

they should add +10 poison resistance, +10 fire resistance, +10 ice resistance to the lizardmen

[tepid pawn]

remove the bard!!

[ruby chasm]

have you ever played an extraction game (that hasn't been sunset the season after) that has a gear score?

[granite plinth]

my suggestion is to stop listening to the community and make your own game

[ruby chasm]

Who do you think pays for the game?

[rustic radish]

add scav mode so i can play a goblin

Also, Starter Gear Lobbies, let's just try it out see what happens

[granite plinth]

absolutely mangled the only fun class in the game ffs

[glacial veldt]

Do not wipe characteres level, only itens. PLEASE!

[merry kestrel]

Did you forget that you paid to help them test systems, including wipes and NPE?

[small furnace]

I mean it's fair to ask for this. The grind to get a character to a playable state just isn't fun, esp if you're the kind of person to level many characters. Dude also said "Please".

[fathom bolt]

Pretty sure the class system changes are coming next patch so it makes sense to wipe

[ruby chasm]

Also o think (don’t quote me on this) they are trying to get missions and quests in

So to get accurate data on how long it would take they’d want characters to be base, not fully maxed

[merry kestrel]

☝️

[small furnace]

Yeah I just don't know why the "You are a test dummy guinea pig" speech is being given to a dude that asked for something and said "please"

Like, we really out here saying people can't suggest things now because they testing the game?

[chrome epoch]

Seriously need a block on weapons or atleast some little deflect

[white kettle]

lower double jump penalty. change in some way. no benefits of having 200+hp but can be slower than barb

[dapper gull]

MAKE FIGHTERS SPEC INTO CROSSBOW

[cunning schooner]

If Ironmace wants to keep Haste as is, what If they greatly increase duration to make it sorta viable?

[cunning schooner]

How so?

[dapper gull]

Like how rogues have to spec into hand crossbow

[chrome epoch]

the warlock does nothing 3 rays of darkness on a ranger while he was being bashed by a goblin are you kidding me

[drowsy grotto]

Put more effort into the servers instead of updates, I just got hit from like 5 feet away for absolutely zero reason.

[fathom bolt]

ray of darkness is a joke

[idle kindle]

Lizard should get like 50% resistance to poison

like goblins/bugs/rogues/zombie coulds

[cerulean kestrel]

What else is new

[split mica]

remove the new goblin caves map, is the worst map i ever seen. is just a big arena to people fight, the map dont have any good spot to loot

[faint merlin]

Really need the gear limit back on base dungeons. Just not fun to play against teams of full purple when you have starter gear and no money.

[zealous marsh]

Seller must sell all common grade items.
For example, as a warlock, it would be really frustrating if you went to a weapon store and all they had was the rare falchion.
All you need is a regular falchion or longsword.
It makes no sense to spend a large amount of gold to buy rare weapons with useless abilities.
All you need is a variety of common weapons.
It's not a good thing to have limited options.

[obtuse lichen]

how to you get more than 240hp on the barb without using war cry

[obtuse lichen]

nerf fighter buff barb nerf broken achilles and blood exchange combo

[small furnace]

buff barb Pls cease.

[short heath]

Nah man let's keep on this train 🤣

[barren edge]

nerf barb achilles strike, nerf base barb hp, nerf barb rage speed bonus, add poison arrows, add more races

[modern junco]

Forcing pvp in normals will kill the game by making potential new players quit before finding enjoyment from the game. Increase portals and make them spawn quicker in matches. Not in hr and hell though.

[languid swift]

Where would you even buff them? More knowledge/wisdom? Do we really want smarter Barbs in our dungeons?

[merry kestrel]

Because it's specifically asking them not to do something that's integral to testing

[bleak dagger]

Game is currently unplayable. Last patch introduced plenty ways of brake and cheese the game into oblivion.

[lucid folio]

1. nerf barbarian, not classes buffing him. Fighter buffball isn't as strong as barb for a reason. 2. reduce either barb's hp, or his damage, no character should be exceeding in both. 3. bring back haste to the wizard, class is unplayable without decent means for disengage, just make it so that you can't haste others. 4. revert warlock nerfs, including the BoC one. Warlock wasn't really strong before those nerfs, they weren't needed at all. 5. Rever ranger buffs, they weren't needed as ranger was strong the way it was, it's just that barb buffball was (and still is) way too strong to play anything else

[bleak dagger]

there cries the warlock main

[lucid folio]

nah, I'm a cleric main

[bleak dagger]

cleric is unplayable as well right now

[lucid folio]

cleric is fine

resting restoration changes made the nerf feel less bad, cleric nerfs overall were reasonable. Bard and warlock nerfs weren't

[bleak dagger]

yeah sitting all game to recover spells is reasonable fun to play. and it takes ages winding up a heal

[lucid folio]

balance is more important than fun imo and from the balance standpoint it's fine

[bleak dagger]

I dont see where its balanced, decreasing spell amount and increasing casting speed and removing clarities is a bit too much of a "balance change".

[merry kestrel]

Bad players: my class is bad please buff or revert

Good players: the changes didn't do what they were intended to and should be looked at but thank you for attempting

[lucid folio]

the only change I would want is for holy light to have the same projectile speed as lesser heal, having to yell at your teammates so that they don't dodge the heal isn't skillful, it's just annoying

[merry kestrel]

Constructive feedback is better than sweeping statements about "omg this sucks" lol

[bleak dagger]

kannst du mal deine scheiss fresse halten du affe?

[lucid folio]

well, I didn't say "it sucks", I kinda explained why they weren't reasonable (or were, in case of cleric)

I would disagree with "thank you for attempting" part at this point, they missed too many times to just be patient about it

[merry kestrel]

Bard needs a top down redesign

Warlock TM should only double COP, not all spells. Dont forget there's magic healing base stat on occultist mask now.

[lucid folio]

and yet even bis gear warlock doesn't heal of curse or life drain at all

[merry kestrel]

If you can't be patient with the devs then you should probably stop getting on the internet for a bit.

[lucid folio]

I would disagree. There is a point where patience doesn't help anything anymore since the game is losing both player count and twitch viewership/streamers playing it due to bad changes one after another. They can and should just listen to better players instead of chasing their delusional vision of the game at this point

and yes, better players who can explain why they need said changes, not reddit and not the casual majority

[echo dome]

starter gear only lobbies, for the timmys, not for the rest of you.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506108/starter-kit-only-lobbies

[lucid folio]

so that people abuse them the same way they did with lvl <15 lobbies

[echo dome]

abuse gray vs gray its still fair, read what i propose.

[lucid folio]

warlock BoC and cleric smite intensifies

people will just use those two to farm timmies and gold at the same time

[echo dome]

loot is minimized to prevent that, if you go to farm gold your not gonna progress far, majority of loot will be white gear, some green gear, maybe some collectables but not enough that you will gain from the time spent, its just to give people with nothing a chance, it can even promote a "PVE leveling only" atmosphere.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506108/starter-kit-only-lobbies

[merry kestrel]

Or maybe most people know how early access titles work and are waiting for content updates instead of treating the game like a finished product

[wintry egret]

add a flail to the game would make cleric so much cooler

[echo dome]

and wizard wands for ranged attacks

[lucid folio]

nope, they are leaving the game due to it being in a bad state due to developers not listening to them, chasing their fantasy image of how the game should be

[merry kestrel]

The average player has lower than average skill, and developers should almost never listen to any player ever, whether they're casual or professional.

[lucid folio]

developers should almost always listen to better players simply because they are actually experiencing the game played almost perfectly with all the game's flaws being very noticeable

buffball was a broken comp for almost a year and their solution to it made it even worse with blood exchange

not only they had no clue of what was happening in their own game, but they made it worse while finally trying to fix it due to people refusing to play the game because of it

but instead they nerf bard and warlock due to like 10 players in the whole game killing idiots who can't dodge drums and kite boc

[fleet coral]

What do you guys think? https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506432/wizard-is-hot-garbage-nerf-buff-stacking-not-classes

[merry kestrel]

Good players play a different game than bad players, and neither are likely playing the game the way it waa intended by the developers.

[lucid folio]

there was one more option suggested: if there are multiple buffs giving the same thing, be it attributes, movement speed, attack speed etc, only count the biggest buff and ignore the rest

[lucid folio]

it doesn't matter what the developers intend the moment the gameplay is pretty much established, balancing according to better players feedback should be the main goal, along with new content

[merry kestrel]

Any content that could affect balance should be finished before they give any meaningful time to balance.

[lucid folio]

in such game, any content they add will do that, leaving the game in an unbalanced state will make everyone leave so adding new content to balance afterwards will make no sense

[merry kestrel]

Yes except the game isnt finished anyway and they're wasting valuable dev time rebalancing during Alpha when the core game isnt even polished and complete

[short heath]

Says the dude who thought Warlocks were "fine" last hotfix, kekw

[short heath]

This is a prime example of why alphas, betas, and EA phases actually need to be separated.

[merry kestrel]

I think EA can happen any time the game is "playable", but Alpha and Beta phases definitely need stronger separation.

This game is "playable" but "incomplete", so Early Access capable but 100% Alpha.

[short heath]

EA is not meant to be a phase where you're consistently making changes. IM sped up the process because of the court case.

[short heath]

The changes they made to attempt to combat buffball were everything related to Cleric, Haste losing ms, and clarity pots going away. Barbarian rework wasn't intended to aid in making buffball worse. Regardless of that, the changes they made to Barbarian have good intentions but were executed extremely poorly. Each tick of Achilles proccing a heal, and being able to hit breakable objects to trigger the heal on BE were MASSIVE oversights, and the fact that it wasn't IMMEDIATELY hotfixed or reverted speaks volumes to the actual experience level and forward thinking the dev team has. They clearly don't have internal QA testing going on, and their lack of experience in balancing has been biting them in the ass since PT4. They NEED to invest in a person who can fulfill those roles.

[lucid folio]

check leaderboards and the amount of warlocks in there compared to other classes

[real trellis]

They reduced the armor on several barb-exclusive pieces of equipment so you could consider that a nerf to buffball. Too bad they accidentally made blood exchange go crazy with Achilles.

[short heath]

Leaderboards are a terrible indicator towards the power a specific class has, especially when the two meta compositions are extremely well-defined and will make up the vast majority of leaderboard contenders. If your class isn't on that list of meta comp classes, you're going to be at an inherent disadvantage for that indicator. Warlocks were extremely capable, but were just outshined by buffballs. That's an extremely invalid proof.

[lucid folio]

rogues and fighters weren't buffballed, but there's still more of them than warlocks on the leaderboards. Same for goblin caves with no buffers present

[short heath]

Rogues can rat for easy kills and extracts, and Fighters absolutely were buffballing. You're high.

[lucid folio]

until they met their destined war maul, walocks couldn't do that regardless, telling that they didn't need a nerf at all

if they are not being played in meta comps at all, resulting in them not being on leaderboards, that tells that other classes are preferred and this class isn't overpowered at least and is underpowered at most

[short heath]

You're only looking at HR statistics by looking at leaderboards. You do know this, right?

Like there are other game modes lol

[lucid folio]

they don't matter much as they are mainly being played by timmies

[short heath]

Holy fuck you're actually dumb.

[lucid folio]

give arguments instead of insulting like a barbarian

[short heath]

Listen to what you just said, realize how stupid you sound by saying that, and maybe rethink a bit how game balance occurs.

[lucid folio]

to put it simply: if normals show warlock being very effective because he is farming idiots who can't kite boc, it doesn't need that boc needs a nerf

it means that they don't know how to play the game as in hr such effectiveness drops

[short heath]

Crystal Sword BOC double dipped into magic damage. It needed a nerf.

[lucid folio]

it didn't as you can simply run from the warlock for 15 (now 12) seconds and just kill him after

[short heath]

Another example of a person placing an ideal scenario for their argument, meaning you actually have no clue wtf you're talking about.

[lucid folio]

which btw doesn't work with the barb as he has great amount of hp and damage even without buffs

[lucid folio]

pressing w key in the opposite direction is not an ideal scenario, it's something you can always do

[short heath]

You don't balance off of ideal scenarios.

[short heath]

What are you gunna do when the Warlock is actually decent at the game and doesn't press their BOC button until you walked through a door and they put a Hydra behind you to block your escape?

[lucid folio]

you jump over hydra

[short heath]

You can't jump over a Hydra in a door

[lucid folio]

you can jump over hydra in a doorway, you ctrl+space, hope this helps

[jade tartan]

If you cant team they need to add a gear cap to normal lobbies there is no risk with all the guaranteed exits now. I shouldnt have to fight a person in full purp in normal goblin caves

[lucid folio]

btw, if warlock is using spells and boc, that means they don't have phantomise. No way they will catch up to you enough to put a hydra in a doorway

but that's irrelevant since you can just crouch jump over it

[short heath]

The only way you can jump over Hydra is with DJ on Rogue to fully clear it in one jump. Otherwise you're going to have to jump twice and if the Hydra is placed well, you literally cannot jump over it through a doorway. Regardless, you're still making assumptions that only benefit your side of the argument. If we want to talk about ideal scenarios, we can, but balancing doesn't happen around that. Balancing happens around "if BOC hits, how much damage can it potentially deal?", not "only bad players get hit by BOC so no need to nerf".

[lucid folio]

you can always jump over it and it only takes one jump

even clerics, as heavy as they are, can do it

[short heath]

You're still not understanding that your view on the situation is not how games should be balanced. BOC was overtuned, period.

[lucid folio]

also, it's not assumptions, it's literally what happens when boc warlock meets a person with a brain, they just run for 12 seconds, then run warlock down

[short heath]

Your argument literally applies to everything. You hear an enemy team? Well, nothing is OP if you never engage against it. Just turn around and press W, kekw.

[lucid folio]

it is, balance shouldn't fix skill issue

[short heath]

Read what I just wrote and reevaluate your life.

[lucid folio]

because the game has quite a lot of classes with short-term buffs. Yes, running away from them until said buffs run out is a good strategy and it negates any power of said buffs

[short heath]

Why even have skills in the game when you have a W key, lul. God you're moronic.

[lucid folio]

keep personally attacking to show how uncivilized you are

[short heath]

I don't tolerate excessive and repeated stupidity.

[lucid folio]

should be hard to exist with the way you are then

[short heath]

Your view on balancing a game is literally just never pvp.

[wet mortar]

If you dodge arrows you won't die to ranger, so let's triple bow damage, don't punish rangers for skill diff.

[short heath]

XD

[lucid folio]

nope, it's "if you can easily avoid it, it is not overpowered"

[short heath]

@lucid folio read what @wet mortar just said. Reevaluate your life.

[lucid folio]

arrows don't require you to walk into melee range and hit

[short heath]

But you have A and D keys bro.

[wet mortar]

no but they require you to walk into ranged range and have a line of sight with ranger, therefore just don't be in line of sight of ranger or in range of ranger easy

[lucid folio]

and fast projectiles with no telling where exactly the arrow is gonna go. With BoC you know for sure they have to land a melee hit

[wet mortar]

not true you can see arrows they have travel time just be faster'

[lucid folio]

not walking into line of sight of ranger and melee range of warlock is not nearly the same tho

[short heath]

It literally is, though. Lul

[lucid folio]

it literally isn't tho, range goes from few meters to few dozen meters

[short heath]

But you can always see Ranger and gtfo before they can see you and shoot at you.

You REALLY don't understand how dumb you sound, do you?

[wet mortar]

Was never my point, just that some things are not feasible to just avoid in a fight... you CAN'T kill a ranger without being in range of a ranger, 25% of classes CAN'T outrun warlock, especially when warlock can doorblock you or just spam CoP

[lucid folio]

you can't, but yes, you can dodge them at longer distances. I don't think their damage is unfair, the slow is excessive as the ranged class needs a weakness in terms of being punished for not hitting shots by the person running you down

they have traps anyway, as well as a melee option being a spear, exactly why wizards need their haste to be at the same spot

[wet mortar]

Traps need nerfing, slow on hit needs nerfing, damage needs nerfing

[lucid folio]

nope, you two do

[short heath]

The slow only applies if the Ranger hits their shots, so how exactly is it punishing them for not hitting their shots by reducing their slow on hit when they're hitting their shots? That makes zero sense.

[wet mortar]

Why are you coming after me as if I'm a group with this guy? I was just stating my interpretation of what you said and never insulted you... so uncivilized.

[short heath]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[lucid folio]

if warlock spams curse of pain, they will not BoC you, if they hydra the doorway, you jump over it, only cleric can't outrun him, he can holy strike him in phantomise tho, if he lands those, warlock isn't winning in melee with boc

[lucid folio]

I didn't call you names, I called what you said dumb

[echo dome]

barb base MS should be lowered since he gets a 4 second ability that prevents you from moving without taking damage.

[lucid folio]

because one hit will slow enough to not be punished for a few misses

[wet mortar]

Look dawg I agree with some of what you said disagree with some. Not gonna argue because clearly we just have different view points and that's fine. BoC was way too strong, you don't always have 8-12 seconds in a fight to just wait out an abiltity and personally I don't think the game would be as fun if it was just a waiting sim during fights... "well I can wait out the BoC, Sprint, Achilles, Hunting Trap....... therefore balanced and fun!"

also you definitely were insulting me don't be pedantic about it just because I used your words against you lol, just stop being cringe and agree to disagree rather than call everyone else stupid.

[short heath]

That still doesn't make any sense. They hit a shot on you. Melee hits also slow enough to not be punished for multiple misses following a successful hit, but in both scenarios the person hitting you gets rewarded for hitting you.

[lucid folio]

melee range is very limited, ranged not so much

[short heath]

You also have significantly more freedom to move at range vs in melee.

[lucid folio]

I did not insult you, I evaluated what you said. Saying dumb things isn't equal being dumb in general. I never said you can outkite other things you mentioned. Sprint is created to give some mobility to an immobile class so that it can cath up to ranged classes or kite said buffs like boc or rage. It doesn't really apply to achilles because he can keep throwing axes at you, therefore it's not an easily kiteable ability, but wouldn't be that strong if barb wasn't overtuned in general

[lucid folio]

you can just run from the melee range tho and it's much easier than running from the ranged range

also, you only need to run from boc for 12 seconds, while ranger does consistent damage, not just one impowered shot you have to dodge

[wet mortar]

if your first throw misses achilles goes on cd so yea it is avoidable lol

[short heath]

Ranged attacks are telegraphed and easy to dodge. And no, they will have to reload their arrows at some point, which gives you a massive opening to close distance.

[lucid folio]

depends, if it's rage+achilles and he throws an exe at point blank range aiming at you legs, not that easy to do, but still not too strong of an ability if barb isn't overtuned in general. Like, give it to fighter and it won't be even picked

[lucid folio]

after which spear goes into action

while warlock without boc has close to no means of survival in melee range

[wet mortar]

just parry obvious skill issue

[lucid folio]

there are easy ways to make hits unparriable

[wet mortar]

just dodge then, all hits are avoidable so. The logic you argue with literally negates your own arguments...

[lucid folio]

not really, warlock is not fast enough to just run for the same reason he can be kited

[short heath]

I can't with his circular logic

[lucid folio]

nope, you just try to strawman it, but your attempts have no logic

[merry kestrel]

Did we forget phantomize exists wtf

[lucid folio]

if it wasn't already used to try catching up to you, they still won't have their boc when they exit it so you just run them down

[ruby pendant]

How do I react to other roles

[short heath]

Don't bother man. Dude is just out of his mind.

[wet mortar]

BoC=Melee attack
BoC=Dodgeable
therefore, Melee Attack is Dodgeable
Therefore, Warlock in melee can simply dodge melee attacks

This is not fleshed out at all but I'm not writing a 39 page essay on why you're wrong.

[lucid folio]

or you are just angry due to being wrong on the internet, insulting while not having viable arguments

[lucid folio]

kiteable=/= dodgeable, you can't "dodge" it in melee range, you can block it tho

[wet mortar]

You absolutely can dodge it in melee range are you joking? Just duck and look down obviously you fool and let the weapon hit a wall, dodged.

Also just kite the enemies melee attacks, I mean you never lose a fight if you're never in range to get hit... and then we're back at the stalemate of a boring ass game where noone fights except rangers

[short heath]

Honestly just stop. You're not gunna get through to this dude.

[lucid folio]

trying to do that to a falchion warlock instead of kiting might be the reason why you think it's broken

[lucid folio]

warlock isn't fast tho, you can run from him and then run him down, you still fight, just with your advantage

[wet mortar]

You are a fascinating creature seriously. You can't dodge melee attacks is the most absurd thing I've heard in a while, then I give an example that yes you can dodge and you go "well um akshually you can't dodge this ummmm"

[wet mortar]

hydra

[lucid folio]

space button

[lucid folio]

you can dodge an attack, but unless they hit the wall, boc will not deactivate, you can dodge the attack, but not boc itself

[wet mortar]

So? Just dodge every attack, problem solved. Then you can wait out BoC in melee range real easily. Also jumping hydra is buggy as sin.

[lucid folio]

you can do that, that's quite the same as just running away tho, exactly the reason why boc isn't and wasn't broken

warlock can't do the same tho due to his movespeed, other classes will just run him down

[wet mortar]

My point is that it's POSSIBLE, but not FEASIBLE.... Yea you can dodge every single swing, but will you? Yea you could potentially just run away for 10-16 seconds, but do you have the time to? Is noone else around? Do you have any ability to close the gap once warlock runs away when BoC runs out and just starts spamming you with CoP? Is zone closing and you'll die unless you charge the warlock who has BoC up?

[short heath]

"This one thing will onetap the entire lobby if you touch it, just dodge it and it isn't OP" listen to yourself, please. Your logic is "if can kite or dodge, thing isn't OP, therefore no nerf needed". That's not how balancing works, man.

[lucid folio]

you don't need to, you can just w key the opposite direction

[wet mortar]

Yes w key away while final circle is closing and you're dying, giving the only remaining portal to warlock... Valid counterplay, I see my errors.

[short heath]

Like I said, he's playing out ideal scenarios against the Warlock in his brain as if that is the only scenario that exists. Stupid to even entertain him still. Don't.

[lucid folio]

that's already a hypothetical situation created in favor of your position and it's unlikely to happen, even in this case he needs to open the portal to use it, you can just not let him do it, if it's already opened, does he have boc or not, he will just walk into it regardless of what you do

[lucid folio]

nope, I'm playing out what I do every time, not dying to boc once

[short heath]

Yeah so ideal scenarios exist for you but never against you, lul

[wet mortar]

If it's closed it's both parties die or parties figh... 9/10 both parties will fight, in that case is it fair for warlock to have a nuclear one shot ability while also still having the versatility of spell casting

[lucid folio]

warlocks, bards and rogues are by far the easiest to kill

[lucid folio]

I never used an ideal scenario, you can always run if you didn't put yourself in a bad spot yourself, in which case you deserve to die

[wet mortar]

The last circle portal isn't an ideal scenario it's very common

[short heath]

Every single scenario you've put into play highly favors the player who isn't the Warlock

[lucid folio]

it won't help warlock live tho, you will both die, same if you are left with barb or fighter who still has second wind

[wet mortar]

I don't think you are reading the same words I'm reading anymore, goodbye.

[lucid folio]

in every single scenario you can just run unless you cornered yourself, in which case you basically offed yourself

[short heath]

Prime example of the Dunning-Kruger effect right here, ladies and gentlemen.

[lucid folio]

from your side since it's you who kept insulting me while being unable to prove your point

[short heath]

I've proven my point 3 times over. You just can't comprehend it.

[lucid folio]

no, you didn't

[short heath]

In fact, another person literally came in and did the same, and you're still unable to see it when being presented by another person.

[lucid folio]

neither did they

[short heath]

@small furnace wanna be the third person to tell this guy how dumb he is? I'm out.

[lucid folio]

two people being wrong doesn't make them right, don't even try using numbers as an argument, it's worthless

[short heath]

At some point you might benefit from introspection if literally everyone else is saying that you are wrong.

[lucid folio]

majority doesn't decide what is right or wrong, truth exists regardless of humans and their opinions

[short heath]

Let's not get into the objective truth conversation here, because that's well above your level of intelligence based on what I've seen. Regardless, this is a suggestion channel for a video game, not a theoretical disposition forum.

Regardless, as I've said multiple times, balance is not solely determined by how easy a skill is to hit or dodge. The ability will inevitably hit SOMEONE. If that ability hitting any person is a literal instant win for the person who hit said ability, especially when you can manipulate hitboxes on swings and force people to play into you with ring pathing manipulation, then it isn't balanced.

[lucid folio]

if an ability can be countered by running for 12 seconds and the class wielding it isn't fast enough to catch you (which he isn't), it kinda deserves to be a oneshot since the person dies to own stupidity. It would be different if warlocks had ranged weapons, but that's not the case

also, if you can't be civilized enough to stop insults, I will have to contact people who will give you time to think about your behavior

[short heath]

Okay since you want to continue with ideal scenarios, what do you do when a Warlock pops a purple invis pot right next to a blue portal that isn't opened? You're gunna walk in and start opening the portal, and since they're close enough to you that your reaction time won't matter, they can pop BOC and swing to hit you before you can press W.

[short heath]

Go for it. I'd absolutely love to see you pull these imaginary strings you believe you have.

Fucking ban me for all I care, I'm not backing down to stupidity of the highest degree.

[lucid folio]

running away is not an ideal scenario, you can do it all the time unless you walked into a corner yourself, which is your fault

[short heath]

You're hopeless, man. Good luck. Enjoy the nerf, seethe and cope.

[vivid summit]

If you think the mods care about someone insulting your level of intelligence you're wrong.

[lucid folio]

check the rules and try again

[vivid summit]

Fun trick btw the mods will never take action against anything said in dms so if you want to really say horrible shit just do what others do and dm it lol. I had people tell me to straight kms but the mods didn't care

[vivid summit]

You don't seem to understand the concept of how rules work. A written rule that is never enforced is the same as not having that rule

[lucid folio]

rule exists regardless

[vivid summit]

Yeah he was definitely on to something earlier huh

[lucid folio]

as for whether it works, it worked before so it should this time too

[vivid summit]

Good luck fam.

[short heath]

🤣🤣🤣

My bad for being right, I guess. Oh wait, I'm supposed to be banned or something, aren't I?

[vivid summit]

I just don't understand but maybe it's just because I've been here long enough to interact with the mods

[wet mortar]

Yea they typically don't take action against people unless someone says something negative about the TaiwanAnnihilationForce

[vivid summit]

Holy fuck the message failed to send because I referenced large scale human "removal" perpetrated by a government

[wet mortar]

Yep...

[vivid summit]

Can I say homicide? Fratricide? Regicide?

[wet mortar]

I don't understand why more games don't region lock certain regions that are high % of cheater population... Russia, China, and South America account for probably a good 50-70% of all cheating in video games

[vivid summit]

... Money?

Capitalism deigns that we make money not good products. By creating a situation where a region who is cheating and then buying new accounts is region locked they're less likely to do that

[wet mortar]

You'd still make money by region locking they'd still have their server to play on just wouldn't be on the EU & America servers

[vivid summit]

See edit: basically it's a consistent cash flow for those players to have access to the game at large especially when considering that the cheaters often do shit like sell currency which creates more cash flow

[woven marsh]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506455/make-second-wind-more-useable

[wet mortar]

I understand but that's an incorrect way to look at cash flow generation. Realistically sure hackers buy new accounts every now and again generating occasional revenue streams, but long-run the prevalence of hackers will increase refunds, decrease new player entrance, decrease in-game cosmetic purchases and overall shorten the lifespan of a game,

For a year or so letting hackers have a fun time is beneficial but in the long run it will harm the game.

[vivid summit]

Sent you a pm because one of the words I used got insta moderated and idk which one

It might have been lighting with gas because idk what else was there that could have been bad?

[merry kestrel]

most accounts that perform gold purchase issues are going to be using stolen information to purchase the accounts, so ironmace doesn't actually make any money because a lot of them are refunded or charged back at the merchant

[vivid summit]

That's only true in the case where those are actually refunded or charged back. The primary target for fraud are people who know very little about the Internet and their banking. If even 30% of the accounts payments go through that's still a substantial revenue stream

A good way to look at this is: why did the incredibly popular pressure cooker brand "instapot" file for bankruptcy despite being so popular? The product was too good. Once everyone has a single instapot they rarely if ever need a second. By making a base of customers who have to repurchase the game due to being banned yadda yadda you are securing an income stream even if your overall quality or the nature of your product prevents normal repurchases. Planned obsolescence is usually what it's called but it doesn't make much sense to call it that for this case.

[grizzled karma]

Idk if its just me, but the circle is way too fast. i want to take it slow and enjoy the loot goblin.

[woeful sandal]

just you

[jovial torrent]

i suggest rangers commit suicide

in real life*

[fast lily]

I have a suggestion idea

Cleric Perk idea:
Cleric of the Cloth - You can't wear plate or medium armor, but you gain X magic damage.

I really would like to play cleric as a full spellcaster at some point and I think this would be a good way to strike a balance between a utility cleric (who would really want the extra defense because it's so helpful) and a spellcaster damage cleric. This would need more cleric damage spells to be implemented, but yeah.

A cool low level spell would be a spell that did a little damage like Zap but forced the target to glow like they were holding a torch for a few seconds.

[wintry egret]

A flail would be cool as shit

[arctic lagoon]

might want to give lizardmen headshot resistance the more ithink about it

[small furnace]

Just woke up but if I'm understanding this was yet another case of a player saying ranger OP and they also managed to slip in there that BoC is perfectly fine?

[fathom bolt]

BoC shouldn’t have a headshot multiplier

[graceful frost]

They just need to fix the hitbox and it will be fine imo

@fathom bolt it doesnt, it just has scaling and with default warlock will it does like 23

[fathom bolt]

Ah I was misinformed then, I use phantomize most of the time anyway

Could reduce the scaling of it then, I feel like it should give a more fair damage boost and it should primarily be a heal debuff tool

[small furnace]

It does scale with headshot modifier tho, why do you think it almost one taps smh.

[graceful frost]

I mean im p sure it doesn’t. Would be doing like 35-40 dmg with base warlock and a falchion.

Just has 100 percent scaling

[small furnace]

It has 100% scaling and also has a headshot modifier on it's damage. It's both.

[hazy rune]

Please Add A TWO'S MAP FFS

[small furnace]

@graceful frost Just tested to confirm. BoC does 26 magic damage on base kit warlock to body hit, 39 to head. It's both.

[flint viper]

Think they should have a gear rating system and have a cap on it for low roller, super geared guys go there and destroy everyone and it makes the game less enjoyable, im fine with running decent/good gear in low roller but add some level of gear cap so people with like demons glee and has the craziest gear set every cant just go down into low roller

[graceful frost]

Damm wtf, my b. Some warlocks lied to me

[jagged flicker]

Make a Suggesion on the site.

[ripe turtle]

Here's my suggestion for Dwarf racial traits. Leave a vote if you like it! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506506/dwarf-racial-trait-suggestion

[hazy rune]

My suggestion is Add GearScore with Gear Brackets to the Queue so that starter gear doesn't queue against full epics unless they choose to

[soft apex]

or just make all the damage scaling on rare gear PvE only, mostly the same effect but geared up people won't end up with empty lobbies.

[buoyant wren]

remove poison from goblins

i also don't think a goblin should hit for 44 damage after poison, i know the idea is to make taking damage punishing but with the current health, pool 44 damage after poison 3 shots every single class

[soft apex]

they only hit some classes that hard (rogue, bard), equipping any Will gear significantly reduces the damage and is kind of a key way to learn how to harden your character up against similar player debuffs

[buoyant wren]

i got mad and legit tested it myself, iron will, +robust on barbarians still get 3 shot by goblins, if the highest health pool class, with will and health perks still gets one shot, it might be a little busted but thats my opinion, i don't think gear should be the only way to survive, whats the purpose of health and magic resistance perks if gear works better

[hazy rune]

As it is right now, starting out not far into the wipe, lobbies are nearly unplayable, they're filled with fully epic teams. There absolutely needs to be some way to mitigate this with either a gearscore bracket or something.

[wintry egret]

no pdr you goofy goober

[buoyant wren]

im talking about base kit stats with perks no extra gear or pdr or will besides what perks give you lmao

[wintry egret]

thats what you get for choosing a glass cannon, dont get hit if you dont want to take damage, to be honest the goblins other than the nightmares are the easiest to dodge in the game

[buoyant wren]

im saying i got mad and tested every class in the game and every one gets 3 shot, your missing my point entirely the point is the poison does too much damage or the goblin does to much damage to base kit with perks built to be tanky to poison, it is absolute player deterrent to hop in a game and get 3 shot by the smallest enemy in the game regardless of the perks you run

[short heath]

Yeah basically. It got nerfed, dude was malding over it, I told him why it was a justifiable nerf and he just kept going.

[small furnace]

It's still too strong imho. I almost lost a blue/purple kit the other day to a warlock cause he headtapped me and did 80% of my health. He was pretty close to base kit.

[short heath]

BOC w/ Crystal Sword still double dips from +magic damage. Very strong still.

[soft apex]

just for your stats, test cleric base kit with these two perks: Perserverance, Protection from Evil

[fast lily]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506511/cleric-of-the-cloth-perk-idea

[tiny wigeon]

Resilience is key, keep spamming, eventually those goblins won’t ever hit u again, pve isn’t really a factor after u discover how to effectively beat it.
Most melee goblins just bait their attack, and hit them after they swing and miss.
Axe goblin can swing twice in a row, so just bait and be patient
Ranged goblins might look scary, but u can kite them near a wall and bait their shot then u go for a hit, or just strafe right just after they shoot and it should miss u.
Goodluck!

[fast lily]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506511/cleric-of-the-cloth-perk-idea

[torpid trout]

Luck potion suggestion: Small potion price is fine, luck options between 50 to 100 increments of 10. Large potion price is fine, luck options between 100 to 250 increments of 50's.... fix it already.

[obtuse skiff]

warlock should get a junk quality crystal sword as default

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506521/give-warlock-a-junk-quality-crystal-sword-as-default

[hardy vector]

id rather not even have it atp

its gonna be like 15 dmg

[hazy rune]

Game just feels like play the first day of the wipe or don't bother playing at all lol

[slow sundial]

Make ruins brighter i cant see fucking shit, i keep getting stuck on rocks and rubble i cant even see. All people do is place traps and sit in dark corners, 10/10 game init

[bitter beacon]

Im having problems logging into the ironmace website does anyone have a solution?

[dim jetty]

bring back item caps, streamers literally just farming beginners

[barren edge]

warlock was op before wdym? revert all ranger changes and go back to pt 4 when rangers didnt need to bring arrows and sh

[dim jetty]

make a naked mode, bring back item caps

[worn lava]

Please be sure to make the Dwarves actually small and not the same size as the rest of the characters we players would rather play gimli

[hidden lava]

There needs to be gear caps when entering normal dungeons, leave the purple and named gear in high roller

[radiant grotto]

make 15 bolts cost like 15 gold insted of 20

otherwise you can just buy 3 stacks of 5 for 15

[hazy rune]

Can we get some Duo queue's as well

[hazy rune]

Yes! These lobbies with epic'd out ppl that have been no-lifing since the first minute of the wipe are LAME

[obtuse skiff]

yes but it scales with mag dmg as well

[trim olive]

Stats suggestion : add skill cooltime affect for the Resourcefulness stat.
The first reason why we try this is for make this game more tactical.
Current games are only focused on dmg and hp and speed stats, like Strength and agility were the most valueable for melees, and knowledge for castingspeed, will for magic dmg for casters.
This means that most people cares about killing with one strike ASAP.
But if the cooltime fastering effect is apply on Resorcefullness, I hope that people try to consider with split the battle resorces(like spells, skills, items, etc.)for later for the possibility of the cooltime reset of the opposite pplayer's skill cooltime, like hide, triple shot, victory strike(i hope that peolpe can use this skill if the cooltime can be faster), corroption strike, etc.
I kolnow that this will break the balance of current system, but believe that this has to be done before the game is more developed.

[dim jetty]

bring back item and level caps

[soft nebula]

pls revert some of the warlock spell costs, i just wanna heal and i dont wanna have to die for missing 2 pains

[coral wharf]

Nerf rouge, make the shit rat class unplayable

[wicked spindle]

agree make it non curse spells cost more but keep the curses on the low end

[soft nebula]

its too much of a skill check character, a newer player isnt gonna be able to do jack with it

[shut jolt]

Put the gear cap back you StUpId "game devs"

[green magnet]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506570/miner-merchant-buyable-pickaxes opinions?

[urban jasper]

Can we try to give invi and haste back to wizard, the same as before, but only as a selftcast ?

[green magnet]

invis is kinda rogues thing but i dont see why not for haste

[wintry egret]

i would say that wizards are still strong with current haste and invis, with movement speed the way it is now, you can definetly get away from current barb/fighter meta

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506576/craftable-kingqueen-crownjewelry

Gold bars + Perfect Gems for Craftable crowns.

[wicked spindle]

implement a new way to stop people from purpling up in regular dungeons. 6 out of around 15 deaths today were to them and its crazy

[small furnace]

There really needs to be something done to deal with the chinese people trading for real world currency in trade chat.

They are actually so bold as to put out trade advertisements with their own currency in them. Like add a "Report" button or something at minimum. It's crazy how rampant this is.

[trim olive]

Looks good idea, agree with that. Hope this work in soon.

[spice hinge]

Its amazing how one nation is causing so much problems for everyone else, maybe its just better if they are segregated from everyone else.

[real trellis]

Careful, this objectively true statement presented without malice could be mistaken for a nasty racist smear job

[small furnace]

Ay yo I just don't wanna be being asked to pay for the spear of rot I've been eyeing up with Xi bucks, that's all.

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506576/craftable-kingqueen-crownjewelry

[dapper gull]

Nerf barbs and fighters

[granite plinth]

dont know if that exists already, but i made it anyway: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506591/startergearonly-lobbies

[tiny wigeon]

Man .. u guys still don’t get it, it’s like you actively try not to understand..
The game already has very long queues for high roller.
Yet u want item cap lobbies, and you want starter gear lobbies..
The game has 10k ppl playing, spread over 5 regions, there are 3s map 2s map and solos map, the solo and 3s map also has high roller.
And now u want to add MORE ways to split the community.
No matter how bad the game is balanced, the worse thing possible is insanely long queue times or empty games.
You guys complain about being farmed by kited players (fair, it’s lame AF) but if ur lobby was empty or u had to wait 10mins to play a round that lasts 10mins, u would be even more unhappy.

The solution to kited players farming timmies, is NOT gear matchmaking lobbies..
@granite plinth

Not to mention , it’s anti fun.
Personally I like the fact that there is a chance I go into a lobby with average gear and could get out bis.
Gear matchmaking just ruins that part of the game, u maybe get small upgrades from other players but ur mostly getting better gear from chests.
It will stagnate the game by a lot

So let’s imagine a scenario , you queue for gear matchmaking, you wait 6mins for game to start , it starts with 8/16 players, you go in play the round for 10mins, come out with 3 slight upgrades.
That’s fun!

[granite plinth]

ive been on both sides of this argument, but tbh, whats the reason the playercount is so low? people quitting the game because they get stomped on a regular basis. but as you say, stomping timmies is not fun, i agree with that so what do we get? 2 sides of the spectrum where timmies dont have fun bec. they getting stomped, and the stompers which dont have fun because there are so many timmies. if you get a better solution for new players, im all ear, but the way this is developing right now will lead to massive exodus of new players which you need. only the veterans are against this idea most of the time and i get that. ive played since playtest 2, i went in ultra geared, low geared, mediocre geared, have been there. but this is not playtest anymore, as a company you will have to find a way to aquire new players and more importantly KEEP THEM. and since this game is not on steam it is already hard enough to achieve that. maybe that all will change if it ultimately comes on steam but till then they gotta find a solution. if it's not the 1-14 lobbies then AT LEAST give them the trade channel back, new players are at such a HUGE disadvantage right now

[wintry egret]

i think people treat this game like a battle royale way too much so much so to the point of exit camping for no reason other than to be a griefer, i think if people saw this more of who has what i need for my character instead of kill on sight it would change the game

[tiny wigeon]

I agree that it’s an issue, I just don’t thing gear matchmaking is the fix, it would feel boring to me, and I’m mostly a Timmy.
They need to incentivize geared ppl to go to high roller, they can’t force it, if they try force it, players will just find a way to go around it.
When they added blue/epic different queues, the blues were more expensive then epics on the market.
When they had 1-14 and 15-20 lobbies , the lamers were making a new character, joining one game with their friends that would drop them bis gear. Then next match they would queue alone and go in with insane gear.
Ppl will find a way around it to be lame, we have to find another way

[wintry egret]

i agree i think limiting portal spawns too is a very bad idea, causes more fear of "this guy might steal my portal" so its easier to thin out the herd than it is too be friendly and move on, i think if they removed limited escapes and improved loot drops a bit more for normals it'd be alot more casual friendly example is the patch not too long ago, enough portals for everyone to get out, enough loot for people to have, only reason to fight was cus someone had something you wanted in the lobby

[tiny wigeon]

Game would be very different without limits on portals, imo boring.
I also think the kited players that are stomping timmies don’t care, they can handle red portals easily, they are legit just trying to get a dopamine hit from seeing their name kill a Timmy on the kill feed.

I also think, ppl don’t consider running away a solution.
Going into the swarm is safer then going into a 3 man team.
Just yesterday I was playing with my friends, we had green gear mostly. We got stomped by a kited player team, my mates died, I managed to run away from them being a cleric, which is the slowest character in the game and sucks at opening doors, I managed to run open a door and pop an invis pot and that was enough for me to survive, then I had to take red portal because they were camping the last blue portals, but I managed to survive in hell aswell.
Running away is a viable tactic and more often then not, kited players are slower then timmies

[honest owl]

Solo Bard is still unplayable :c wish his spells were stronger if he was only buffing himself

[gray mesa]

is this game dead now

??????

[jagged flicker]

ur mooma

[worn lava]

?

[thorn light]

Barb is broken af 😉

[neat cloud]

We need a matchmaking system so I can stop getting stomped by super geared griefers

[short heath]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

[neat cloud]

Voted

[ripe turtle]

Here's my suggestion for Dwarf racial traits. Leave a vote if you like it! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/506506/dwarf-racial-trait-suggestion

[vernal hedge]

I don't think dwarves are ever mentioned has being light.
they are short but also a lot more chonky built than us

[limber elbow]

What the heck and who came up with the idea in the game making team to remove the limit on equipment from purple or higher in normal dungeons, enter the game with basic gear and encounter a bunch of unskilled people who only use high quality gear to fight? people who have nothing

[ripe turtle]

You're right. The Lightweight trait was bit of a joke.

[winged mortar]

This game has lost so many people because of the lack of faith in balancing. IMO. Every single player who checks the game out and ends up one tapped is no longer a player.

[tiny wigeon]

but gear matchmaking is swapping a problem for another.
People would also quit if their games are mostly empty and queue times are 5 mins+ for a 10min round

[winged mortar]

Gear should only provide like a 10-20 % advantage. No gear matchmaking needed. Nerf the f out of the gear. Focus on core mechanics. Gameplay. Balance. Teamwork. Positioning ect.

[river flint]

I have to agree

[tiny wigeon]

this is strongly agree with, gear shouldnt make u 10x stronger, a dude with naked swinging an axe, should have a chance of killing anyone imo

but everytime they nerf the gear drop, the community whine is INSAAAAAANE, i cant imagine being the devs, its impossible to make anything right according to community

[vernal hedge]

but at the same time, i'd pay to watch a tiny dwarf get homerunned by a 2-hander

[winged mortar]

They are listening to the wrong advice. They should tune out every streamer.

[river flint]

i bet it will me more likeley that that dwarf is jumping around in a speed of light and nobody can hit him, because its already hard to hit fast rogues

[vernal hedge]

but then what is the incentive to get gear, farm gold etc, game will become basically a BR

[winged mortar]

Exactly. A dude in full legendaries should equal out to about 20% advantage. And that should be enough incentive.

[ripe turtle]

I know right! 🤣

[river flint]

make some unique gear/weapons that is not OP at the same time

[river flint]

missclicked last reply was for u

[vernal hedge]

so a guy decked in gear that you are only able to get through the hardest content in the game is now only 20% stronger than a naked.
How does that sound good? to me that sounds awfully boring because any given item you drop is gonna be essentially meaningless

[winged mortar]

You must not believe in the core mechanics the game has to offer, gear has proven too hard to balance. It has killed 90% of the player base.

[winged mortar]

Also you can get through the hardest content naked. The problem is pvp.

[vernal hedge]

yah i don't because we have none or know about what will come, at least I can't remember any of the top of my head. or what core mechanics are you talking about for exmaple?

"Also you can get through the hardest content naked" yes it's called skill and knowledge, is this an issue?

I just don't understand what people that don't want gear to have power would be playing the game for, there would be nothing more than the same level of pvp and same level of pve has you cannot get stronger. you'd have nothing to work for either, the only progression and drive in the game is getting more gear and more money, but if there no gear, why do you need money?

[ruby pendant]

I understand that a 30 strength 40 agility rogue is the strongest individual in the game with a rapier, so I get items having too much power is a worry

How do I find my old suggestions? I made a suggestion to the devs to add a warlock shield that drained health, but blocked arrows and thrown projectiles rather than magic. I’d like to find it

[worn lava]

you should just try and experiment without player trade for a wipe and expand the crafting and maybe dabble in the normal market see how the players take it and do with it lets test out the gameplay see how that feels and if people would prefer it after a test

[tiny delta]

Change the name of normals into low roller or something and restrict gear to whites. Change the name of high roller into normals.

[graceful beacon]

why??

[cerulean phoenix]

because there are players who join regular lobbies fully kitted in blues/purples and steamroll those in gray/white gear

[tiny wigeon]

@cerulean phoenix Man .. u guys still don’t get it, it’s like you actively try not to understand..
The game already has very long queues for high roller.
Yet u want item cap lobbies, and you want starter gear lobbies..
The game has 10k ppl playing, spread over 5 regions, there are 3s map 2s map and solos map, the solo and 3s map also has high roller.
And now u want to add MORE ways to split the community.
No matter how bad the game is balanced, the worse thing possible is insanely long queue times or empty games.
You guys complain about being farmed by kited players (fair, it’s lame AF) but if ur lobby was empty or u had to wait 10mins to play a round that lasts 10mins, u would be even more unhappy.

The solution to kited players farming timmies, is NOT gear matchmaking lobbies..

Not to mention , it’s anti fun.
Personally I like the fact that there is a chance I go into a lobby with average gear and could get out bis.
Gear matchmaking just ruins that part of the game, u maybe get small upgrades from other players but ur mostly getting better gear from chests.
It will stagnate the game by a lot
So let’s imagine a scenario , you queue for gear matchmaking, you wait 6mins for game to start , it starts with 8/16 players, you go in play the round for 10mins, come out with 3 slight upgrades.
That’s fun!

im just gonna post this everytime someone suggest gear matchmaking , or making even more splits into the player count

[neat cloud]

Matchmaking - will fix - the game - Sauk

[cerulean phoenix]

I was answering Chicken's question. Where do you see me advocating for gear matchmaking?

[tiny wigeon]

thats some big copium meltedcrayon

[winged mortar]

Core mechanics = combat

[neat cloud]

Thanks I get my gene's from my dads side of the family ;)

[tiny wigeon]

fair enough xyphier, sorry for my low patience, i read this a lot and i guess got lil blinded by it

[neat cloud]

Don't worry guys, Sauk is the be all end all, just ask him.

[cerulean phoenix]

No worries. I agree that the more queues/filtering options that are given will just split the community further and ruin queues.

[vernal hedge]

so you want to turn the game into essentially a battle royale/TDM, gotcha

[winged mortar]

No. Just make the gear give incrementally small advantages. It doesn’t matter how little the advantage is people will still want that advantage. Even if it’s 10%

[tiny wigeon]

My opinion is based on facts, there are plenty of examples of a low player number games where they did something similar and they ended up making their game even worse numbers and eventually dead game that gets discontinued.

Your opinion is based in hope, cool dude , go pray for it to change , maybe that works!

[neat cloud]

My opinion is based on facts, There are plenty of people to back my opinion up. You are so humble!

[winged mortar]

My opinion is based on my only 3 friends trying the game. And immediately getting 1 tapped and they won’t play with me anymore.

[tiny wigeon]

Because ppl back ur opinion doesn’t mean it’s based on facts
Show me games that had around 10k players, made gear matchmaking queues and their numbers went up.
You won’t, cause u can’t

[neat cloud]

Sauk, that horse keeps getting taller huh?

[tiny wigeon]

???? Not every game is for everyone man, can’t believe u think this is an argument dude

[tiny wigeon]

So since u can’t show a flaw in my argument, u can’t show any evidence to back up yours, you result to trying to offend me, maaaan you just keep losing and losing xD

[winged mortar]

Yeah but they’re your average gamers. We have a struggling population. We needed them.

[neat cloud]

Do I? go check the suggestions page and tell me no one else shares my thoughts. you're a fool

[tiny wigeon]

I am your average gamer aswell, and I like the game. Not every game is to everyone’s liking.
And to be clear, I think it’s an issue, kited players shouldn’t be stomping timmies , it’s bad for the game, however what you are proposing isn’t a solution

[vernal hedge]

idk what games you play but i do not know of a single pvp game where between starter gear and best is slot you have only a 10-20% power increase.

this completely removes any feeling of progression"oh great I dropped a legendary weapon... oh it does 2 more damage than my starter weapon" idk how you'd feel rewarded because any upgrade shy of a full set of bis gear would be noticeable

right now you go from starter weapon and equip a blue or purple and you feel the change, that feels good, your character gets stronger and it's palpable

if you want to remove the feeling of achivment and progression that's gonna kill the game because while ungeared fights are fun, if its all you are gonna get it'll get stale

[tiny wigeon]

oh my...
You know at some point , most humans believe sacrificing someone to the gods increased chance of rain.
Most humans believe the planet was flat.
Just becuase a good chunk of ppl believe matchmaking queue to be the solution, it doesnt mean it is

[neat cloud]

You do understand that your firm belief in your opinion isn't the answer either right

[tiny wigeon]

My opinion isnt a fact, but it is BASED in facts.~
There are MANY examples of games in this exact scenario.
Your opinion is just based on other ppl seem to think is the solution

[vernal hedge]

like seriously, try to picture a scenario where you went from starter gear and found a legendary weapon... that weapon is a 1%-2% upgrade to your starter gear. and you want to tell me this is good?

[neat cloud]

And you're saying my opinion isn't based on fact? you want more players? make the game more player friendly. and leave the chads to another lobby so they can stroke eachothers hotdogs

[winged mortar]

Legendaries should give like 20% advantage at best.

[tiny wigeon]

YES I AGREE! make the game more player friendly!!
But dont destroy the game in the process, matchmaking queues will obliterate the game dude......
come on now...

My opinion is based on the fact that many companies have tried and FAILED. Your opinion is based on the fact that u and many other ppl BELIEVE matchmaking queue to be the solution.

[neat cloud]

K, so make normal lobby drops bad again, make HR drops higher. play normal a ton until you get to the top of the ladder then go to HR and use it, rinse repeat when/if you lose it all in HR

[vernal hedge]

but you words were "Exactly. A dude in full legendaries should equal out to about 20% advantage. And that should be enough incentive." implying that a single legendary item upgrade would be around a 2% increase in power per slot from starter to legendary.
So like i asked,do you think this will feel good/rewarding?
that between starter lvl 1 gear and the best gear in the game it would be a 2% upgrade per slot?

[tiny wigeon]

yes! any idea is better then splitting the 10k player pool into further and further mess.
As bad as any of these problems are, none of these problems come close to :
very long queues
empty lobbies

those 2 are arguably the worse thing that can happen to your game

they did attempt to make lobbies drop worse loot, and the community incessantly whined until they reverse the policy

imo, pve needs to be harder, pve isnt an issue at all for anyone with 1 month playtime.
we cant FORCE players to go to high roller, but we need to incentivize them.
I think opening doors slower could help, so u dont have teams just spawning and running around the maps, ignoring ALL pve cause they can open and close a door making the pve completely irrelevant

[vernal hedge]

how would you even do this balancing wise? your 30 base damage grey weapon has a legendary would do 30.6 damage?
Once gain I ask, does this feel logical to you?

[neat cloud]

Ok I'll hop on your side for this one. Idc how it's done I just would like to see LESS (not all) geared people steamrolling normal lobbies. SO however it is achieved is cool by me and many others I'm sure.

PVE difficulty, I totally agree... even when you get surrounded by mobs in grey gear you can drop them all without dying... Hell needs to be harder too..

Maybe opening door speed is ok? but closing them is too quick.

[tiny wigeon]

Yes @neat cloud look at us bonding now!!!
I also want to see some gear, i think the possibility of outplaying someone with better gear then you and going from 0-100 in terms of gear is very cool idea.
But its so lame that ppl just want that dopamine hit off seeing their name on the killfeed stomping a timmy

opening door being same and closing taking longer is a good idea aswell, i like it. It should be harder to go through the dungeon, doors shouldnt automatically be insta win against pve

[neat cloud]

Agreed :) I would love to be able to stand a fighting chance against someone but how it is now - there's very little chance

[tiny wigeon]

have the leash to you longer? and perhaps more mobs can break doors instead of just a few

[tiny wigeon]

yes, i do think the gear value is still a bit too high, i dont want it to be useless, people should feel good when they loot something, but looting a pair of boots shouldnt increase ur damage 1.5x

[rain ice]

Your math is super wrong lol

[winged mortar]

Break it down individually. Like. The damage on a legendary weapon is 20% greater then gray. Armor. Same story.

[winged mortar]

You don’t add together every piece to consider advantage. You only hit one piece of armor per attack. These stats and stat stacking are garbage.

[vernal hedge]

@rain ice how so?

Yes you only hit one piece at the time, but localized armor doesn’t exist so be it head or feet it gets reduced by all your armor, do you even understand how the damage calculation in this game work?

If a piece of gear increases my power by around 2% all your gear combined we’ll increase your power by around 20% compared to a naked, if you mean each legendary item it around the 20% stronger than a starter item, then a full legendary character will be 200% more powerful than a starter

[tiny wigeon]

apologies for being an ass, u didnt deserve that.
I enjoy this game, and dont want it to fail like other games that ive enjoyed aswell. It really hurts to see the same mistake being made again and again and losing a game that u enjoy playing with the boys.
Not that me feeling this way is an excuse, i just got very salty very quick XD

[rain ice]

that is not how percentages work lol. please somebody correct this guy

[vernal hedge]

Why can’t you?

[rain ice]

i am not your grade school teacher. but a 20% increase of each part of a whole, makes the whole 120%.

[neat cloud]

Likewise homie. The emotions only show how tied to this game we are. It has so much potential. We just want to see it done well and fairly to it’s playerbase.

[winged mortar]

Oof. That maths.

[rain ice]

this dude has been arguing that a 20% increase of each part to a whole is somehow like, 200% or something lol. you cant have a game design discussion with that going on

[short heath]

You guys are misunderstanding one another, for a few reasons. You're taking a literal mathematical approach to the conversation whereas he is taking a practical approach.

[rain ice]

no lol

im out, but good luck with your elementary school game balance discussion

[vernal hedge]

someone gets it

@rain ice not like you added much to the discussion anywaysº

[short heath]

You are correct in that a 20% increase on each piece of gear will add to a whole of 120% increase from the base. You are wrong in the fact that a 20% increase in base damage and/or armor when applied to the calculations that are associated with determining how much damage an attack might deal would only go up or down by 20%.

Specifically for armor, there is a curve that the static values apply to in order to reach a percentage, which is why you are wrong @rain ice

[short heath]

A literal nuclear engineer and former developer has entered the chat to prove you wrong. Might want to go back to elementary yourself in order to learn that there's more to a number than simply that number. Apply the number to the equations and next time you might not make a fool of yourself.

[short heath]

Sorry you had to deal with that. I've been helping my wife do a deep clean of our home and while I was gone it seems more uneducated cannon fodder started to spew trash.

[rain ice]

holy shit you guys think you are super smart

actual insane discussion "sorry you had to deal with that". LMAO.

lil bro is actually making up random numbers and you are defending him

🤓 im a nuclear engineer and completely random numbers that arent calculated are actually real guys

[vernal hedge]

I kinda gave up at "You don’t add together every piece to consider advantage. You only hit one piece of armor per attack"

[rain ice]

just for the record, the discussion is literally about a 20% increase in power. not 200% based on exponential calculations lmao. you balance around making it lead to 20%. go pick up you peanut butter and jelly sandwich with the crust cut off

[tiny wigeon]

♥

[calm dove]

Seems like he forgot to calculate crit damage. But idk I'm not an engineer just a guy who can read.

[short heath]

Low key I'm intentionally just being a narcissistic asshat at this point so I might actually catch a ban which would prevent me from having to read half of the crap I see from people here

Like my give a fuck is gone at this point, lmao

[vernal hedge]

win-win situation if you ask me

[short heath]

I like the game enough to keep coming here, but man do I HATE reading some of the stuff I see.

[buoyant pike]

Please buff the bard , it is unplayable , i cant even take a fight and win it even if im 100% outplaying my opponent( i litterally got into a fight with 9 hits difference with my opponent(crossbow + survival bow + throwing drums and 2 lutes hits ) and still loses even if my opponent had no stuff and i was full purple and blue) , its like annoying to be the fucking worst character in the game and not beeing able to play a single fight . I tried a lot of variations of the bard like playing tanky or full range but it is just impossible .

[polar vale]

why not make the wizard only beable to buff himself? and remove the ability to buff others? as a solo wizard its rly hard, barley anyone plays the class anymore in goblins. personaly the casting haste isnt worth it. the inv flash 1.5s doesnt feel right either. the only thing your combating atm is the buffball stuff by the looks of it. but if you plan to use the wizard as a support class i can see this wont work. just thinkin outloud 🙂

[short heath]

Have you considered acknowledging that the Bard is a support class and playing with other people to possibly capitalize on that?

[lone crescent]

I suggest making HR goblin caves fun

[short heath]

What's wrong with it now? Same stuff?