suggestion-discussion

[small furnace]

Don't know about you guys but I know which one I'd rather put into my kit.

[limber narwhal]

Some thought would have to go into how gearscore is calculated but I'd think some greens can have a higher score than some blues

[stuck perch]

How do you rate a dagger with + magic damage? It's kinda ok on a rogue but fantastic on a wizard, is the rogue to be punished for using a dagger with a decent damage when it could be much better if he was a wizard?

[dense sand]

the guys that are steamrolling lobbies arent wearing bad roll purples lol

[limber narwhal]

no they have all +all attribute gear and +dmg gear

[small furnace]

I'm aware of that, but my point is that 'gear score' would have to be so incredibly complex and take into account the nuances of the current meta and which rolls are valuable that it would always have to be tweaked. It isn't feasible long term.

[dense sand]

just seems like a lot of intentional blindspotting in regards to any suggestion about GBMM from a vocal minority

[small furnace]

You guys say we're the vocal minority we say that you're the vocal minority.

[dense sand]

naw after gear is more tuned and balanced it would be easy implementation

[stuck perch]

You also get punished for using something outside the meta because it has sorta good stats for you but really good stats for someone else. It's like a boxer doing all he can to lose weight so he can drop down a bracket.

[dense sand]

we're in this together, us vocal minorities

[limber narwhal]

Every system has pros and cons, the current one isn't working at all imo

[dense sand]

people gonna lose their minds on Tuesday when they nerf the drop rates of purples and legendaries, as well as nerf the max damage weapons can roll

[stuck perch]

The current one has cons that have been made worse by decisions made awhile back.

[limber narwhal]

Shouldn't the idea be to do normals to level and raise gold and find some nice things along the way, then you take those rewards to the next bracket to test your competition?

[small furnace]

This is the problem with GBMM people.

You guys say that 'this game could be good' whereas the people who don't want GBMM say 'this game is already good'.

Sure it needs a bit of tweaking, but it's not as if it's a bad system in itself.

I'm not going to end up quitting because some geared guy rolled me, if you are then that's gotta be on you. It's just part of the game.

[dense sand]

I think the game is already good, but the system is broken and exploited lol

the level bracket system is a joke, we had twinks/smurfs hour one of it and it was hiliariously bad

[limber narwhal]

the idea is to stop the game from becoming getting rolled every game until you get frustrated and quit

[stuck perch]

No, if you wanted something like that it would have to be something where you'd voluntarily cross a threshold with a high cost, and more rewards on the other side. A threshold you could come back over at a high cost.

[dense sand]

the thing is one viewpoint is trying to experiment with solutions while the counter argument is "NO THIS WILL RUIN THE GAME"

[small furnace]

Here's the thing, I fear that these experiments will be put in place and then left alone for far too long. The devs have already shown they are willing to put unpopular decisions into place and not undo them even when there is outrage (a'la the meds change), I want to show my disapproval BEFORE it happens because the way these devs have rolled have shown me that once the change is made it can often be too late.

[limber narwhal]

It will 'ruin the game' for players that use their endgame gear to steamroll noobs

[dense sand]

player retention is going to be a major issue when it comes to playing normals in this current build of the game, its a fact, the devs have even acknowledged it, once they tune down burst damage and increase the TTK you'll see how many sweats are gonna be crying because the easy kills aren't going to be as easy anymore

[limber narwhal]

use your endgame gear in the endgame ya?

[dense sand]

doesn't sound like Early Access is for you, this is the time the devs need to be trying different rulesets without fear, this is how you make progress

[stuck perch]

Some of those solutions would require intensive time and labour to setup and get working "well" which would then bring in the sunk cost fallacy and discourage the devs from going back on their decisions. This would be further compounded with additional systems using that decision as a foundation.

You're better off trying those systems in a different game and looking at how it affects that game over time before committing to it here.

[limber narwhal]

I don't think it's all that difficult to assign gearscore to attributes

[stuck perch]

You're only looking at it on paper. It's one of those things that would be complicated to program into the game.
Even on paper it's more complicated than you make it seem.

[small furnace]

The devs have said they want this game to be 'hardcore'... these types of hand-holding matchmaking systems are the opposite of hardcore with the intent to make everyone happy and an equal, average level of challenge distributed across all players.

I like this game as hardcore, I like that I can die a brutal, unavoidable death to a geared player that came across me before I could react and that SOMETIMES, maybe just SOMETIMES I can have the insight gained from having those experiences and use it to occasional eek out a victory against one of these unavoidable geared killers.

[limber narwhal]

Again, not matchmaking and not handholding, just limiting exploits

[small furnace]

You advocating for GBMM, that is a type of handholding through matchmaking, trying to force everyone onto an even playing field.

[stuck perch]

Yes, take all the softcore stuff, and stuff it into a different competitor. Casual players can go get bored playing that game while we can enjoy our hardcore game being what it was meant to be, that is properly hardcore.

[limber narwhal]

not gear based matchmaking, flat gearscore cap on NORMAL lobbies, you are not being put into a pool of people with the same gearscore as you

[stuck perch]

Same thing.

[small furnace]

That's the same thing through a different method, it gives people a 'baby mode' essentially and splits the playerbase in a way I do not want.

[limber narwhal]

so full blues is baby mode?

[small furnace]

If you are doing forced segregation based on someone's gear, I do believe it is handholding to an extent and trying to level the playing field for people. That is not something I want by method of matchmaking or separate queues.

[stuck perch]

If it forces players into different queues then yes. It's like keeping middle schoolers from playing against high schoolers. Because we need to "hold their hand".

[dense sand]

I got bad news for you, they are definitely going to test GBMM and its not as complicated as you make it sound, the level bracket was a mistake and an obvious one. Once they do a couple big gear and class balance patches, you'll see GBMM get tested.

[limber narwhal]

it's no separate from existing normal lobby vs. high roller. If it forces players that have the disposable wealth in full all attribute gear to actually fight other players of the same kind instead of preying on naked lobbies then i'm ok with it

[stuck perch]

That said this is my suggestion towards this, it addresses the problem, motivates players to do content of appropriate difficulty and doesn't force players outside of content they want to do. It also reduces the frequency of encounters with over geared players and gives players more room to play around them if desired.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment544273

[limber narwhal]

I think you're missing the point. Some of the teams that come in are incapable of dying in the gear they bring.

[stuck perch]

That's the problem, "it forces players"

[small furnace]

I kinda don't like this suggestion much either but only because it would limit who plays on what map, I mean, let's be real... who wouldn't want to play on the map that has the most loot?

[stuck perch]

How does it limit who plays on a map?

[small furnace]

Are you taking goblin caves into account with that?

[dense sand]

"No, this suggestion does not prevent highly geared players from joining crypts." You are missing the issue rn, its not just about reward, a lot of these players doing the stomping in Normals aren't fueled by wanting to get loot they got their loot now they want to flex it in Normals on lesser geared players.

[stuck perch]

Explain.
My suggestion discourages players from playing where they shouldn't be and motivates them without forcing them to move on.

[hot hemlock]

16 for ruins yes, Crypts needs to stay at 18 so it can be even amt of teams. Also loot locking lower floors just ADDS to the problem. People who farm 150 gold first and get to HR to cheese everything for free loot then run it back is just who wins the first week

[dense sand]

because like many of my friends, once they get their BiS kit they'll run around stomping normals for lulz, they'll do it till they run out of BiS kits and then go back to farming

[hot hemlock]

The problem isnt the loot you find its the loot players bring in thats worth stomping for

[dense sand]

you are assuming all players want healthy competition which is largely not true

[stuck perch]

And this is addressed with the lower player density, giving the players who don't have as much gear as their lobster opponents more room to breath and play around those well geared hostile players.

[hot hemlock]

Players want to feel like theyre unstoppable, in which this case they are

[limber narwhal]

correct

[hot hemlock]

Hopefully loot gets turned UP in hr and DOWN in crypts so HR would actually be worth the fee

[dense sand]

this is the blindspot that many people in this debate neglect, its not just about them getting loot thats not the focus the goal is to CLEAR THE LOBBY OF PLAYERS rinse and repeat

[hot hemlock]

If you ran HR currently the odds of you getting a terrible spawn with very low loot pathing for 3 players to split is reasonably high. You end up losing money when you couldve saved the gold and just pubstomped norms

[limber narwhal]

For the streams, at the expense of the players. Fun to watch, not fun to be on the receiving end, every game

[dense sand]

yep, and also theres a very small chance that you'll die in normals once geared out

[hot hemlock]

Exactly

[stuck perch]

No, bringing the Crypts back to 16 as it was originally intended is important as it heavily diversifies the parties players encounter. You either want a multiple of 3 +1 or +2, you don't want an exact multiple of 3 as it makes duo and trio teams very unlikely in those matches compared to having something like 16 players in crypts.

[hot hemlock]

Its meant to be trios. You shouldnt take fights solely based off of OH THEY HAVE 2 PEOPLE LETS RUSH

[limber narwhal]

The steamroll geared comps doing this are sitting on an inventory full of golden keys and endless funds, they should have a higher risk to lose their gear in high rollers against similar players, otherwise they're just abusing the regular player base

[hot hemlock]

Im also hopin gold gets removed from stash and is just treated as a currency you keep invis once you extract with it

[limber narwhal]

OR they can come into normals with a kit full of blues and MAYBE get killed by a lucky squad

Instead of popping a mario star and barreling through everything they see

[stuck perch]

No, it's meant to be a combination of trios, duos and solos. If you see another player you shouldn't immediately assume he has 2 other friends nearby. This lets players play mind games with rogues and other baiting games.

[hot hemlock]

This is EXACTLY what you should assume what?

[dense sand]

I still solo queue crypts, it's fun

[hot hemlock]

Im not saying solo q should be punished but the lobby should fit an even amount of teams. GUARANTEEING that theres either 2 solos or 1 duo in a lobby just puts a target on them for queueing the game

[dense sand]

when I solo it, it's easier to be stealthy and avoid the ubergeared team and if I die I just spectate the insanely geared team and watch them clear the lobby then go again

[stuck perch]

Besides with more trios you get a lower player density and a higher one with more solos and duo. How come I don't have a target on my back when I solo or duo queue the crypts right now? Besides the game has to be balanced around this because even if a party queues as a trio there's a number of things that can split them up, like one of them dying, or extracting before the others.

[limber narwhal]

I'm still here typing because i'm passionate about the game, and I see the existing system as an issue that's leading to my disinterest and many others' i'm sure. This is coming from someone who got to the point of maxing their inventory in golden keys because I didn't have room for loot, and used to clear lobbies as a rogue decked out in purples. The balance is a problem

[hot hemlock]

Thats not impacted by the lobby size though lmfao. If you ever played a game of HR and saw the solos you could rush for free leaderboard kills youd understand

[stuck perch]

Some of those solo games I've played are in HR. Still no difference there.

[hot hemlock]

I still disagree with guaranteeing at least 1 team at a man disadvantage lmfao

[stuck perch]

A problem that will be made worse by any matchmaking system INCLUDING a cap on gear brought into a match, which by their nature are exploitable or overly complicated which then becomes cumbersome.

[tall mist]

Just remove the storm it’s so simple

[hot hemlock]

The storm is there to keep players from perma edge of map farming

[stuck perch]

I don't like the storm, but several core mechanics are built on it being there so a suitable replacement would be needed

[dense sand]

once gear is balanced and tuned, they just set a max rarity you can bring in and thats it, not rocket science

[limber narwhal]

How is the exploitation not limited by a cap?

[tall mist]

Who cares? Let them farm and get better gear to feel good about and then they push for high tier loot rooms. The fights shouldn’t be happening because you just run into each other with empty bags you should be fighting over loot like every other loot/extraction game

[stuck perch]

No the storm is there to herd the players towards a given area to encourage pvp.

[hot hemlock]

Its less of an exploitation and more of a punishment to new players who get lucky lmao

[hot hemlock]

Idk what other Loot/Extraction games youve played but Tarkov, Cycle, Marauders, even Hunt have always been a fight to fight game not a fight for loot

[tall mist]

Really? Where do you often find people in those games? What are they doing. My point being is it’s not a battle royale, and the gear disparity that the majority of the player base is complaining about is only so AIDS because of the storm pushing you into a fight the odds are against a lesser geared player winning

[stuck perch]

Because if the gear you bring in decides which bracket you play in you'll get smurfs with much better skills min-maxing what they can bring in and all but guarenteeing that they won't face anyone that could come close to being their equal and the noob stomping will be much much worse.

[hot hemlock]

Doing quests? Or completing the game given objective in the case of Hunt

[limber narwhal]

You don’t think the people in all legendaries aren’t already Min maxing their skills and comp but are empowered by better gear that others can’t get?

[tall mist]

So looting? My main point is that it’s not a battle royale and the storm pushing players together only makes the gear disparity feel much much worse

[limber narwhal]

The min maxing is already very much a factor but the cap at least makes them somewhat vulnerable if they choose to come in a normal lobby and prey on everyone

[hot hemlock]

Since when was doing a quest considered looting?

[limber narwhal]

There is 0 factor that a cap would make this phenomenon worse

[hot hemlock]

And if the fear of gear disparity is discouraging someone from playing I suggest not greeding as much and looking for the early extract portals

[tall mist]

I was thinking of the dead drop stuff but you’re right there’s other quests as well

[tall mist]

Easier said than done. Just think about it for a second. If there’s no storm and a timer with another extraction system or same with tweaks, everyone is escaping when they don’t want to fight more often, more players with money means more gear means more hell runs more high roller. Why play high roller as a casual player when you’re already getting steamrolled in norms with no loot?

[stuck perch]

They're min maxing gear not skills. But it takes skill to get there and not lose your set to something dumb the next run in. At least with truly random matches they have a better chance at meeting their equals. If they play carelessly they can lose that advantage they thought they had. Also don't discount lucky third parties.
I was doing solo crypt yesterday on my fighter, met a wizard, he shot a fireball at me and I ran away. I doubled back around and found him being chill we talked a bit and he pointed out 2 well geared groups going at it. He buffed me and I charged in and took out their backline while the other group they were fighting backed off. Then a third group came in before I was able to loot my lucky kill. Even if I died, it was awesome, because I was a basekit fighter with maybe a pair of grey boots.

[hot hemlock]

The thing is they want to LIMIT the amount of people getting out of dungeons otherwise thered be 18 blue portals and 18 red portals for whoever wants to do whatever

[stuck perch]

Yeah, but gear isn't the only factor as to whether someone extracts or not. I've extracted many times as a rat when playing surrounded by lobsters. If I can get to a portal before they can get to me, their gear doesn't matter.

[scarlet creek]

Open world dungeon when?

[tall mist]

I don’t think that idea should be applied as hard to normal crypts. I think normal should be normal difficulty, something an average player can likely extract from

[hot hemlock]

The average player can extract, its the above average player that is the problem

[scarlet creek]

What do u guys think will happen when the wipe hits? This is what I think:
Either they change something about every class and improve on warlock and do some balancing changes for everyone; OR, they do a complete overhaul of EVERY system which wouldn't surprise me with how heavy-handed they are in changes which is good for something in Early Access. I think we might see some more changes to starting attributes and skill/perk changes on all classes as well as a weapon nerf across the board so people do less damage. That's just what i think though. Warlock will definitely be getting an update and be more fleshed out. I doubt we will see Druid yet, but u never know

[stuck perch]

Even at max PDR cap, you still take enough damage that you can get taken out. Even more so by players who build against lobsters.

[polar garden]

Gold Chests for storing gold instead of coin purses still in stash just store a lot more gold so we can stockpile more and not constantly have to get more purses but can easily fill purses from it for purchases from trading and such just an errant and random thought

[hot hemlock]

Its already been mined in the files that they exist

[polar garden]

Nice

[scarlet creek]

Depends. Magic damage is their weakness so u have Wizard, Cleric, and Warlock mostly to counter them. War maul is a 30% armor pen, but against 85% that's only reducing their armor to 59.5% which is still around 2.5X effective hp, but definitely better than the 7.5X from 85%. Reckless Strike on Barbarian can also be good as it is 75% armor ignored for 1 strike, which would be 21.25% armor rating for that 1 hit instead of 85%. Knocking them down to only about 1.4X effective HP

[stuck perch]

No, that should apply to the first level in a map stack, which should be the ruins in the ruins/crypt/inferno stack. Extracting about 40% ish of the time for an average player is good enough here.

[tall mist]

Yeah assuming the maps become stacked eventually I’d agree

[stuck perch]

Keep in mind that the game is balanced around teams of 3s, so when forming a team you should take into account your likely opponents and try to have an answer to them in your party. This is part of counter play. Don't take 3 fighters than complain about the enemy's PDR.

[stuck perch]

You want to be limited in how much gold you can stockpile. What we currently have is decent. If you want more then you could extrapolate the system into additional coin types. Like silver coins for example, if the stuff you find at the lower levels was only worth silver then you'd have silver purses and gold purses. It would create the same feeling of accumulating more without actually raising the cap for bankable gold which is better if it remains quite low. Although they could raise it if they want to test additional gold sinks. It's althogether a bad thing that players stack their gold to max capacity.

[inland bobcat]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495345/durability-repair-system#comment555762

Here is my idea for some sort of durability and repairs system. Give it a read and would love some feedback on it

[ivory quartz]

I don't think a durability system is necessary in this game, it honestly appears to be feature creep. I can understand the purpose to supposedly curb the use of powerful kits. In my opinion it is already easy enough to die and lose kits in this game. I have never survived more than a 7 extract steak even with my best gear.

[ivory quartz]

The game is balanced around solos now; or is atleast a partial consideration, with the recent barb and rogue nerfs there can be no denying it.

[stuck perch]

I'm not a fan of durability systems. I lose enough gear through dying that I don't need something like this to cause me to lose gear when I successfully extract too. On there other hand I also read this as "please add this additional gold sink" with the repair costs. The game needs gold sinks, but I think there are more innovative ways to do so than a durability system.

[abstract swallow]

durability would go a long way towards solving some really basic problems like the endless lootbloat in the economy, it being insanely profitable to punch down into content when geared, etc

[inland bobcat]

It would also apply to all the gear that others are looting off of other players as well

[stuck perch]

They can test it, but if durability can be repaired through the merchants then it's just another gold sink, and an unimaginative one at that.

[inland bobcat]

as some of the high geared players just go in to take down other players to take their loot to put on in the trade

[ivory quartz]

I don't think durability will really solve the problem though. I don't think we have people going into raids fully geared just slaughtering noobies and extracting 10 times in a row. The issue is that gear is abundant and cheap, so the people going in are dying pretty often they just make enough to buy another set right after.

[abstract swallow]

we do have those people
I do exactly that on a regular basis just to prove a point

[ivory quartz]

This would only really matter for the super high value gear, Ei the legendaries and god roll items that sell for several keys. Other items will be lost to the dungeon within 6 raids

[lucid charm]

I think gears below blue tier should lose very little durability or even none of it. And also going HR will lose less durability than going NG, so that people with better gears will go HR instead of NG.

[stuck perch]

The game is balanced around 3s. I don't see how the nerfs to rogues and barbarians? Give solos partial considerations. Rogues were able to 1v3 pretty easily even against things they shouldn't be able to because it should have otherwise been their class counter. This is a crypt issue, that this makes things better for GC is just a coincidence. Not that I think rogues are all that great solo after the nerfs.

[ivory quartz]

Sry if my post was confusing, What I meant to say is that. The issue isnt that gear is being recycled and reused. It is that gear is so plentiful that it is cheap to put together a chad set and go murder nakeds in GC. The issue is an ecconomic one.

[abstract swallow]

fair enough, that's also an issue
the first dungeon floors are WAY too loot heavy right now, especially with treasure
you can hit 0 large chests and kill 0 PvE still walk out with 150+ gp in just treasure pickups and meds

[inland bobcat]

agreed that the treasure needs adjusted in the normal maps so high roller feels more rewarding

[ivory quartz]

Rogues struggled very hard in 3s and so did barbs, outside of the haste invis accelerando ball which was stupid no matter who you used it on, Barb was just the cheapest option. Rogues 1v3 were extreme outlier examples usually where the rogue had a large gear disparity in their favor. I mean ambush and weakpoint that make up rogue damage have like a 30 and 60 second cooldown respectively, after that your damage drops dramatically and even with the best possible gear a rogue is still made of paper. The nerfs to rogue were most certainly targeted for solo play. And perhaps the barbs were nerfed for their performance in 3s I assure you the demand for nerfs to achilles was purely coming from the GC community, I remember arguing with them.

[inland bobcat]

for the repair part on my idea was also that it would take some time for the gear to be repaired so you either wait or put on another set of gear. Could even try to sell it in the trade at a lower price if you dont want to have to wait

[stuck perch]

Just make HR drop double the amount of loot that normal drops. And let Antes be refundable on a successful extract.

[ivory quartz]

I don't think we should be adding Mobile game mechanics, that increase time between matches.

[inland bobcat]

people already wait for the alchemist and surgeon to restock their potions

[ivory quartz]

I think a good solution would be to just make gear really rare like it was when EA started. Make it impossible to find a blue in Normals outside a lich or golden chest. That should encourage highroller play, and hopefully assist with gear disparity issues a little.

[lucid charm]

They need to remake Rogue's playstyle, it's too passive right now. You either go solo, or find another 2 rogues hiding in corners whole game with you.

[ivory quartz]

I mean that was resolved by lowering the duration of hide, which was a good change, Hide honestly should have a low duration so as to encourage the rogue to make up their mind quick. but the damage nerfs were unnecessary for a class made out of paper mache

[stuck perch]

I can't say about the barb nerfs, I've only ever saw people complain about barbs in buff balls. But I remember rogues 2 shotting my armored fighter then either retreating and coming back for another member of my team later or fighting them normally. He didn't have crazy gear either.

[dense sand]

the dagger nerf was too far

[ivory quartz]

The weakpoint and ambush nerfs were too far, weakpoint didnt need its armor shred nerfed along with the extra damage, and even then one or the other would have been sufficient in cutting down the kill potential. The dagger and AGI nerfs were just a kick in the teeth.

[lucid charm]

It still didn't solve the problem that Rogue is not strong at pushing or playing aggressively. Most of the time your other 2 teammate have to bait the enemies into you.

[inland bobcat]

sounds like rogue tactics to me

[lucid charm]

Yes, but it makes rogues not welcome in most of the teams, people just don't want to play that slowly and passively.

[ivory quartz]

I don't know how to make a stealth class that is more proactive than reactive? The point of lowering the duration of hide is just to make the experience better for the person the rogue is fighting.

[stuck perch]

Rogue currently doesn't bring enough potential to a team, sure prior to the nerf it did some things well, but I had friends tell me they didn't want rogues in the party because all they typically did was hide in the shadows waiting for the enemy team to push when my friend wanted to push them instead. Rogue currently brings Lockpicking, trap detection / disarming and jokester (assuming you take the perks), the rest he just does what rogues do solo, but that doesn't always mesh well with the rest of the party.

[lucid charm]

This is my suggestion.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494480/make-rogue-the-only-class-that-can-flank-back-lines
I think the old ingnite-dagger wizard build is what Rogue should be like.

[stuck perch]

Lockpicking is great, but the bard brings that and alot more to a team. It's also a smaller investment for the bard to take the lock picking song than for a rogue to take the lockpicking perk. And traps aren't so common that the trap detection perk is all that useful (I play with it regardless) and it's often a stretch to justify bringing it.

[ivory quartz]

The issue is that PVP isn't brutal enough. If good loot was reserved for locked chests and if traps were more deadly or areas had unavoidable traps it might be worthwhile. It is also problematic that rogues entire kit is locked behind perks so they have to chose between the ability to help in PVP or vs the enviornment. If lockpick and trap where just free and built into the kit, you might have seen more people consider taking rogues.

[inland bobcat]

it would be interesting if the rouge hade something similar to phantomize that allows them to move through an opponent like a disengage or tumble through, letting them get into those flank positions or being able to charge at the backlines

[ivory quartz]

Well if Tumble was a forward or directional roll, it would probably be used all the time. But then again that might be too powerful, This game is very slow in terms of combat honestly so anything that increases mobility is super strong.

[dense sand]

People often forget that gear drops are increased heavily right now, if I had to guess Tuesday we will most likely see them reduce drop rates and bring the max damage weapons of high rarity down while raising the minimum damage of low rarity up

[inland bobcat]

very true

[dense sand]

also Caltrops should be thrown behind you so you can actually be chased and bait someone into hitting them

[ivory quartz]

I think they are thrown behind you,

[dense sand]

no its in front unless they changed it recently, its very dumb

[stuck perch]

What about adding more utility to those perks, like giving them a buff that increases their value? Like the ability to not only unlock but also lock some doors (countered by the ability to destroy said door if given enough time). Traps detection/disarming, could let rogues use ranger traps. These are quick ideas that add value to those perks. But I'd love to have good loot in locked chests or see more prevalent traps. The maze really was the only location were traps felt prevalent and I recently figured out who to do it without the trap disarming perk.

[ivory quartz]

From the wiki "Places caltrops on the ground behind the user. If stepped on, the caltrops deal 10 Physical Damage and will decrease the victim's Move Speed Bonus by -50% for 3 seconds. (4 uses, non-replenishable.)" I think it would be better if you could throw them infront honestly

[dense sand]

equip it and use it, you place them infront of you

[stuck perch]

Caltrops have always been behind you.

[dense sand]

naw it hasnt ❤️

[ivory quartz]

The ability to use ranger trap is a really good one, I think the locked door could be intersting but I imagine it would be too difficult for them to code. You are right though buffing those perks could make them much more useful.

[stuck perch]

Why would throwing them in front of you be more useful.
@dense sand I used them for the first time when they first came out and it was behind you. I also tried them out recently and that didn't change.

[ivory quartz]

So you could use them offensively, they are effected by damage buffs if I recall.

[lucid charm]

With the stealth changes I mentioned earlier, Caltrops and Smoke Pot will become more viable too. You can just go in, throw caltrops or a smoke and then get out.

[stuck perch]

Set some doors to be lockable by adding a bool property to the class, go throw the map and make doors that aren't going to be abused lockable. Also make said door destructable if you beat on it long enough (with the barb perk providing an instant kill on the door).

[stuck perch]

I think caltrops and smoke bomb should be utility items. Also make smoke bomb something you can throw.

[inland bobcat]

just like rangers and hunting traps

[stuck perch]

exactly.

[ivory quartz]

They could just make caltrops and smokebombs usable items, that are restricted to rogue class. I don't think anyone would complain about those abilitied, but who knows.

[inland bobcat]

would also add more items to the loot pool

[stuck perch]

I also wish caltrops created a larger area. It's pitifully small (it counts as a trap so you can see it be highlighted with the perk)

[ivory quartz]

I don't think that would necessarily be good unless we are purposefully trying to clutter the loot pool, but given gear drop rate that might be a good thing actually.

[lucid charm]

That'd be cool too, but the problem is that they'll be able to spam it. Imagine throwing 10 smokes in a room and everyone just go completely blind.

[ivory quartz]

I think that might be fun, it should make it equally hard on the rogue aswell. Imagine entire fights in smoke filled rooms, might be interesting.

[inland bobcat]

fair point

[stuck perch]

No less a problem than a ranger setting up 10 traps in a room. You mitigate that by making them relatively expensive, hunter traps are how much?

[ivory quartz]

10g for lowest rarity a piece, you can also limit how many are sold by the trader similar to healing pots and that would help stop serious abuses. Would anyone really be mad if once every 100 games you run into the guy with a full inventory of smokebombs

[vernal hedge]

nah, IMO the way they should go about it it having rogue have an utility pouch in which he has like 2 caltrops 1 smoke and his 2 starting throwing daggers, making it a separate item still has you needing to go out and findit/buy it+clutters loot for evryone else so wouldn't be used much

[lucid charm]

Just had an idea. How about making projectiles able to trigger hunting traps? So that you can throw a knife or axe to clear traps.

[stuck perch]

The rogue doesn't see any better in his smoke pots, so making everyone blind isn't that much of an advantage. Also like real smoke bombs the size of the cloud should ramp up.

[ivory quartz]

It does ramp up in game, It starts small and pretty thin and becomes thick

[inland bobcat]

or making sure they take up enough space in the inventory. they would have to also keep going into their inventory to re-equip them to be able to throw 10 smokes and at that point... seems like a wast of gold on their part

[stuck perch]

Could work, but if that's the case I think you should be able to rearm or pick up traps. Maybe make it so that the ones that are disarmed manually by players (not with thrown objects) can't be recovered or rearmed.

[ivory quartz]

I think if they were ingame items they would be used more than they are now. Caltrops and smoke bomb are seen as a joke by most rogue players. I understand your concern about loot cluttering, but as I stated above it might be a good thing to help tone down the ammount of loot that is dropped.

[stuck perch]

Almost as much as the backflip skill.

[vernal hedge]

tone down the amount of loot dropped? you mean half of it being bard loot kek.
that would lead to very much the same situation of them not being used, they arent good by any means so why clutter you invetory with it, instead what im recomending is just give it to them, add it has a class flavour, maybe instead of the throwing knifes in they utility pouch you could place lockpicks instead actually to help make rogue more viable vs a bard utility wise

[stuck perch]

Add a spell that clears the area of clouds, both smoke bombs and those annoying zombie farts.

[inland bobcat]

gust of wind that could have some push back when it hits a player

[stuck perch]

Yeah something like that. Sounds like a neat Druid spell

[ivory quartz]

Well the issue with bard loot need to be addressed. They should let fighters wear bard loot, it would give extra support for slayer build and would let me do a Landsknecht cosplay. Oh and let rangers use featherd hats, that is traditionally a ranger thing

[stuck perch]

That's a solid take on the bard loot issue.

Nah this isn't a crypt, it's an abandoned fashion warehouse for minstrels!

[vernal hedge]

bard just shouldnt have so much proprietary gear, no other class has more gear that solely him can wear, and of course it has to be a feminine male to bring that into the game kekw

[ivory quartz]

I honestly think it is some issue with them trying to make the meshes work with the other characters, and they have just been to lazy to do it. Look at what they did the Female Elf; to solve the mesh issues.

[inland bobcat]

make a bard utility item that is a perfume bottle that sprays a cloud that gives the drunk status lol

[ivory quartz]

Sry I mean Body type B elf.

[stuck perch]

If they changed how loot is currently handled from x number of drops from a large list to smaller encapsulated themed list. Example roll a d100, on 85+ roll on the list of classes, then roll on the class specific loot list.

[inland bobcat]

having options for starting kits would be interesting to have

[stuck perch]

Which is basically how random loot was handled in table top games. Imagine having to pick a random number out of thousands of possbile results all in the same list as opposed to rolling on a table that would point you to another series of tables.

[stuck perch]

Yeah something like 2-4 possible starting kits showcasing different playstyles for each class. Longsword and arming/short sword base kits for the fighter for example.

[inland bobcat]

with how there are some perks that just dont seem like they work with the starting kit as well

[stuck perch]

wtf is body type B?

[inland bobcat]

i believe that is the female presenting default

[stuck perch]

Isn't that easier to say?

Hey your character can be what ever you feel like you want it to be. You don't need make up new terms for it though.

[inland bobcat]

its just what it is called in game

[stuck perch]

I didn't get that impression. They're just both called "Elf"

You're also not obliged to have the female (or male) skin align with your original choice for character.

[dense sand]

Gary Gygax be spinnin in his grave

[vernal hedge]

I wonder what new meta will come along with tomorrow wipe 🤔

[stuck perch]

That's it, I'm now playing a tumbling rogue...

[dense sand]

tumblesmokebomblyfe

[ripe turtle]

Alright since the Bard got nerfs once again (especially for recovery), I have made this new Bard song suggestion. Please leave a vote!

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490509/hippocratic-salvation-bards-new-song-suggestion

[ivory quartz]

Impossible to tell, Ironmace is signalling the update will be very large. So I assume some changes to item rarity compression, and changes to certain enchantment rolls at a minimum, and possibly some new content; hopefully for warlock. Those things alone would lead to a meta shift. But many in the discord and reddit seem to believe we will get a rework of several classes and changes to almost every other class as well.

[dense sand]

they did say both class and gear balance was incoming

[stuck perch]

Nah they should make the new bard thing a skill called seppuku

[lucid charm]

Really hope they'll release the skill tree system. It's a system that's gonna impact the whole game balance, so it's better to release it asap instead of balancing the current meta.

[inland bobcat]

my guess is then next week there would be some adjustments from the changes

[vernal hedge]

After they murder my sneaky boi I best see every class go down in flames and agony

[inland bobcat]

that would be alot of factors to have to look at and adjust

[stuck perch]

Nah they'll just murder the same class over and over again.

[lucid charm]

Yes, but it's gonna happen sooner or later

[vernal hedge]

Can’t wait for the ranger buffs

[ivory quartz]

I have serious doubts about Ironmace and their development, following the recent balance changes. So I will wait and see if they deliver, but honestly If this patch flops I will be trying Greed is Good.

[stuck perch]

Curving arrows on ranger?

[lucid charm]

Keep adjusting the current classes while knowing you're gonna release something that'll break the whole balance seems quite pointless to me.

[vernal hedge]

Greed is good is awful imo, just doesn’t feel good to play altought they have some stuff I wish DaD had

[dense sand]

lol good riddence, some people aren't built for Alpha/Early Access

[ivory quartz]

I have heard, have not tried it myself and I do have my suspicions, but it is starting to look like this ship is sinking, and the patch is their opportunity to patch the holes

[stuck perch]

But competition will be good for both games. And I hope each game decides to go in a seperate direction. I don't want the clones too be too alike.

[dense sand]

"ship is sinking" lol games been in EA for less than 2 months, get a grip

[ivory quartz]

My prime example, EA is a meme and it is people like you justifying every horrible decision made that is and ultimately will kill the game.

[vernal hedge]

The devs don’t know how to balance but calling it a sinking ship is over reacting

[dense sand]

the game has had 5 pre alpha playtests, jesus christ man if someones abusing the EA tag it isn't IM

[stuck perch]

This game exploded in popularity based on a core concept, they would be wise to not deviate from their roots.

[lucid charm]

The only factor that will kill this game is that it's not on STEAM yet

[vernal hedge]

Not being on steam is fine, it’ll go back eventually, it honestly is probably a good thing had the game would likely end up being review bombed due to being early in development

[ivory quartz]

I have seen playercounts drop drastically, their is no future for steam release in sight, I have had 5 of my friends who play played with me leave in the 2 months since it came out. Most state the same reason, the class and playstyle they liked got nerfed and the game isn't fun anymore. I myself can't make sense of the balance changes which I believe to be heavyhanded, unnecessary and far to frequent. I don't know what else to think

[stuck perch]

And not a co-ordinated review bomb campaign by Nexxon?

[dense sand]

not worth your time, that dude is a chicken little type guy the sky is constantly falling

[lucid charm]

The only thing that gets on my nerves right now is the trading system. I'm just tired of sitting in trading channel for hours to look for gears.

[vernal hedge]

And on the other side of the coin I had several friends pick up the game, player count drops are normal as we are before a wipe and it’s early access, there’s not enough content to keep everyone playing the game non stop.
If people stop playing the game because their favorite class got nerfed… L bozo not much more to say, if that’s all it took for you to quit the game they either don’t know the game or care for it enough

[dense sand]

agreed, and thinking the EA tag is IM taking advantage of a buzzword is straight braindamaged

[ivory quartz]

If you say so, I hope the playercount recovers or stabilizes, I am saying that the upcoming Patch is their best chance to stop current trends.

[stuck perch]

My time on Dark and Darker has been reduced drastically since they started doing that. It's not like there weren't options to elegantly address the balance issues. Besides these nerfs goes against a key thing I've heard Terrence (the IM CEO) say in an interview, that balance was secondary to a class being fun.

[short heath]

Terrence also acknowledged in a much more recent video that the entire dev team wasn't aware at how negatively the game would look without proper balance to the majority of the community. They changed their entire stance towards balancing because the community was so off-put by how terrible the balance was (is), and that's why they're now focusing on balancing.

[ivory quartz]

Well That is my true fear, I think that Ironmace has given into the community pressure. That their is no longer a vision for the game, and thus no longer a future. I think this because of the addition of GC, and HR GC, and the reactionary timing and nature of these recent patches.

[ivory quartz]

If that is the case I think we really are doomed then, because it is new content that will keep this game alive and not the never ending pursuit of the white whale that is game balance

[proven vortex]

Those playstyles that were nerfed, while fun for those players using it, was not fun for others not using it. Not sure how that's so hard to understand.

[ivory quartz]

When everything is OP nothing is OP, Some broken playstyles keep other broken play styles in check. Once you start playing whack a mole you never stop.

[stuck perch]

Yay so they're going to become monotonous like most games with being afraid to let classes feel fun to play because someone might get offended that they encounter a spell casting class that doesn't work EXACTLY like theirs.

[vernal hedge]

Balancing doesn’t mean you are producing content or do you think that they have level designers and animators doing balancing patches?

[stuck perch]

Just about every MMO and many multiple player games died out because of this approach. Players will play a fun class that's underpowered for a long time, but they won't play a boring class that happens to be OP for very long.

[short heath]

90% of games that die well before they should end up dying because of unnecessary balance changes.

[ivory quartz]

I think they are a relatively small team, and that yes time they take to balance is time they take out of development. But more realistically, they are actually spending very little time on balance, that is why every change has been so drastic and never anything more than raising or lowering numbers. Because they are unwilling to take time to try and introduce more elegant solutions to issues.

[short heath]

I'm agreeing with you, just letting you know that they actually listen to their community and that's why they're balancing now.

[proven vortex]

If everything is "OP" (which is you acknowledging those nerfed playstyles were OP) then no encounters end in a way in which you feel in control, just that things happened to turn out in your favor.

[stuck perch]

Can you give me a link to that more recent video? They're not exactly easy to track down, also if you can have it at the point where he says that so I don't need to go hunting for it, it would be great.

[vernal hedge]

@ivory quartz in you opinion, how would the ideal development of dad look?

[stuck perch]

Only the most egregious balance problems needed addressing this early. Originally they wanted to have all the base classes released before Christmas of this year. Yeah they had setbacks, but even accounting the delays they are no where near being even close to that time frame.

[vernal hedge]

does base classes include druid?

[stuck perch]

Balance isn't unimportant, but it needs to stand aside and let fun be the main guide to content.

[ivory quartz]

That is a tough question, my ideals and tastes are different from the norm and I acknowledge that. Ideally I wouldn't want them to have any balance changes, merely allow the meta to develop and the playerbase to adapt. And then when they have made new content. they should release it and allow the new meta to form around that. As I said this is unappealing to many 'modern' gamers so I would settle for at least waiting two weeks between each balance update so as the community can have time to fully embrace and adapt to the new meta.

[stuck perch]

All the current ones +Druid, Paladin, Sorcerer and Monk

[vernal hedge]

oh that's quite a lot

[stuck perch]

Warlock was a surprise because it's not part of the classic base classes but that's not a reason not to have them.

[short heath]

This is a breakdown of the recent Q&A. 13:20 is the balance-specific question that has an answer from sdf that is what I was referring to.

https://youtu.be/X_nfwPZlwJ8

[stuck perch]

Here's the link with the right start for anyone else that wants to look it up:
https://youtu.be/X_nfwPZlwJ8?si=a4OCNfxw6SyJFB7s&t=800
But that question seemed to be specific to gear balancing and not class balance as a whole.

[proven vortex]

So you're basically saying you don't want weekly adjustments, you want monthly+ adjustments. So when something is noticeably bad, we'll just have to sit with it for the whole month.

[vernal hedge]

so you would prefer them to have kept buffball meta, hasted invisibard meta and such alive for the sake of no balance, on a same note have kept rogues like they were(rogues were overtunned and needed a nerf but what we got was a nailed shut coffin)?´

[ivory quartz]

Metas are not as sett in stone as you believe, starcraft 1 is a game which hasn't been updated in near 20 years and still sees meta shifts. I think bi-weekly updates are too often and think that monthly plus as you suggested would be better, but I think 2 weeks as Leauge of legends does it is atleast enought time to let the community get comfortable with it. The 5 days between the community bandwagoning on the new thing that needs to be nerfed is far too soon. A day after the rogue nerfs every started jumping on the nerf ranger wagon. It is never ending, and it is the responsibility of the dev team to force some patience on the community

[short heath]

It gives the players an idea of what to expect as far as their idea on how balancing should/will happen in their eyes at the very least. There's a separate question where the answer is sdf admitting that they were effectively reacting to how the community felt because it was a good majority of the community speaking out that they weren't happy with how unbalanced everything was. I'm looking for that now, but I'm at work so it's gunna take some time.

[stuck perch]

If it meant getting content sooner, then yes. Along with content can come more elegant balancing solutions like more counter play options. Although people don't use the available options to counter buff balls, they either don't know them or they would rather take other stuff than the thing that would let them counter the thing they're complaining about.

[proven vortex]

Starcraft is a completely different gametype and really doesn't compare

[strong grotto]

Rogues don't need to keep anyone at bay, they need to go in. Rangers need to keep people at bay, thus traps are made consumables. In other words - the second you will make traps a limited charges skill or perk, considering they already need to have tripshot and spear mastery to be able to fight anyone, you will weaken class to the point of no return.

[vernal hedge]

have you taken a look at rogue perks lol? ranger having traps be a perk or ability wouldn't be that big a deal(ability would be more of a handicap but still workable)

[stuck perch]

I still remember them saying bard was getting a "slight" nerf which ended up nerfing the numbers on that ability by 75%, how in the world is that anything "slight" regardless of whether it was deserved or not.

[ivory quartz]

I truly, don't believe they understand the concept of subtlety

[stuck perch]

That's like saying you make $100 a day and you boss says he has to give you a slight pay cut because he can't afford to pay you. Then you're new pay is $25 a day.

[short heath]

They've stated that they WANT nerfs/buffs to be slight in the future. Not that they are going to be right now. The game is in EA and they are treating this as a testing phase, and as such are going to be changing things a lot and very often. Their goal is to find a suitable middle ground and make slight adjustments from there.

[ivory quartz]

I fear that should they go this route the middle ground they find will be very different from the game we all fell inlove with during the playtests.

[short heath]

Earlier playtests were better solely because loot was made more readily available and gear fear was less common.

[ivory quartz]

Than I may suggest they address those issues rather than balance, if that is the difference between now and the playtests.

[junior owl]

I think that all of you people are worrying too much and should just play if you're having fun and stop playing if you're not .

[stuck perch]

Sure, but balance out nerfs with buffs. Nerf Bard's Tranquility? give Lament a buff. Might not be a 1 for 1 exchange, but at least I get to play with an ability that used to suck over one that sucks now to keep the class manageable.

[vernal hedge]

because they were a limited play time, the community was a big reason those tests were different not even the game persay imo

[ivory quartz]

Well if everyone else stops playing I will be forced to stop, so it is concern for me if changes made cuase people to leave.

[stuck perch]

Especially the people I enjoy playing with.

[junior owl]

Let me guess, you're a Goblin Cave enjoyer?

[vernal hedge]

this is the issue, it they nerf for the sake of nerf but for example in the case of the recent rogue nerfs, rogue issue was teh burst damage, so they nerfect the damage speed and survivality of the class while giving no buff to entice alternative way of play

[ivory quartz]

No, I think GC should have never been added in the first place. It brought in an entire community to this game that is responsible for the issues we have now.

[vernal hedge]

remove solo and duos maps 👏

[stuck perch]

I don't disagree.

[short heath]

The biggest problem they're addressing right now is the tempo of the game. That refers to TTK being too quick across the board, and movement speed/action speed being too high. Everything will be adjusted in a few days with the wipe on Tuesday and we will see how that feels. I have a feeling that reducing damage numbers all around will make the game significantly more healthy.

[junior owl]

The right take

[stuck perch]

16 player 3s map brought all the solos and duos opportunities we needed.

[vernal hedge]

But the scary rogue man dominate goblin caves L Bozo, game is balanced around trios

[dense sand]

cant wait till trios has 3 map progression again

[vernal hedge]

hopefully that were the map coming within next 2 months will fit in

[stuck perch]

If they keep going the way they've been going, this is not going to make the game any more fun. I'm hoping their big patch comes with elegant solutions to the problems, but the way they've been hammering nerfs at the classes I'm quite fearful of what the patch will bring.

[ivory quartz]

Yes, If they wanted to appease solo players they should have made more portal spawns, and make them spawn in outlier areas of the circle or something. Plenty of changes they could do to help people who prefer solo play rather than splitting the community. Now we have an impossible to solve balance nightmare. Class matchups will always be rockpaper scissors in solos but we are now balancing for that. It is leading to the removal of class power and identity.

[vernal hedge]

or give ruins back to the ruins-crypts-hell gamecycle and maybe they are making a new duo map

[short heath]

A good Rogue will dominate in Crypt as well, it was just way easier for them to do so in GC. Like most said, it did nothing but foster a rat environment that was a godsend for Rogues. And now here we are with Rogues being effectively unplayable as actual Rogues anymore. Rupture/Poisoned Weapon is the only good build atm.

[ivory quartz]

Agreed, is all they needed to do was add down portals to ruins. The reason people didnt like it was because of that dumb extract system they tried to implement. That doesnt work with a closing storm, because then you have to run through it to get to the extract half the time.

[dense sand]

hopefully the speculation/mining is correct and we get the triple map progression back soon

[stuck perch]

Ruins back into the Forgotten castle map stack, and add another 3s map. If this game is going to be focused around 3s they should show it with content oriented towards that. If they're going to add another map for a different size of party I'd rather they do 5s as you can't play 5s or even 4s in the crypt but you can play duos fairly well in crypts.

[short heath]

I think the only truly unhealthy adjustment they made was the heavy nerf to Rogues. Everything else has been fine. Rogues are still playable, but you can't rat with them anymore, and that's healthy in the sense of gamestate, but not healthy in the sense of you cannot perform the function of a Rogue anymore in team play.

[stuck perch]

WTF is the rogue supposed to do in a team now? Is the rogue only allowed to team with other rogues?

[ivory quartz]

Barb has been nerfed into unviability, the only way you can play the class is to bully noobs who just stand in your axe range, or with buff comps, but any buff comp would be better having a geared fighter over a barb.

[stuck perch]

I'm not saying rogues should burst down heavy armor. But they're also not supposed to be fighting with pool noodles.

[short heath]

Exactly my point. A Rogue cannot do Rogue things anymore in team play. Hide/sneak into back line and nuke Wizard or Bard, return to fight 2v3 should be the goal of a Rogue.

[vernal hedge]

id rather not see 5's until after the game is released or mostly complete, would completly change the way we are used to play and bring about some dummy op stuff
I'f prefer as well another 3s map has it gets tiring to play only crypts with trios but as the game is we are gonna see stuff for solo duos even tough that not the original view

[short heath]

They need to have high flat damage and low armor pen so they're lethal to squishies but not lethal to heavy armor users.

[stuck perch]

Bard's ability to support is also in the gutter. The selfish buffs are kinda ok, but the rest don't feel as if I'm contributing as much as any other class would to a team outside of very specific buff stacking situations.

[short heath]

Bard is in a significantly more healthy state than they were previously. No class should literally be an absolute must take, and Bard arguably still is in its current, heavily nerfed state.

[vernal hedge]

Remove. Bards. Lockpicking. Song.

[ivory quartz]

Bard is a difficult case, the class as a whole is a balance nightmare. It needed to be reworked more so than have numbers tweaked. Perhaps a cooldown between songs, or even a cast limit similar to wizards or bards, or maybe just increase the time it takes to play songs. Maybe just removing charismatic performance would solve the issue given that was the biggest problem for abuse.

[stuck perch]

The perfect answer to that is increase the health value from strength on every class. All squishy classes have low strength.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/483802/increase-the-health-provided-by-strength-this-will-help-balance-damage-in-turn
Bard was only a must take because the game still lacks a lot of options for support oriented characters. If support oriented players didn't feel like they HAD to play bards or clerics then you'd see less of us.

[vernal hedge]

or make str the damage one and add constitution has an hp focused mod?resolves the issue of having ungodly ammount and hp and damage all through same source

[stuck perch]

Most of those things would remove the class identity of bards. You want balancing options on bards? Make songs harder to play, this means removing charismatic performance, or make the songs require more than a single cast and instant power rotation, both allegro and accelerando are supposed to ramp up as songs but their ramp up time is ridiculously low.

[ivory quartz]

These could solve the problem maybe instead of making the songs scale on how good you perform make them scale on how many times they are played within a time period.

[short heath]

No, Bard is an absolute must take because of their specific type of buffs that they're able to quickly apply and that stack, combined with their general utility and overall combat capability being universal. Bards should not have ranged weaponry available to them if they're going to allow buff stacking the way they do. Movespeed and action speed permanently being capped out and being able to unlock and open all chests in an aoe surrounding the Bard is absurdly strong in itself, because that is such a massive boon to your "clear speed" that it allows you to position significantly quicker and easier than any other class combination, which leads to a strategic positional advantage at all times. Not to mention if the other team doesn't have a Bard you literally will be able to catch that team no matter what they do if you truly wanted to due to the aforementioned buffs being permanently applied to your whole team.

[stuck perch]

Make bards choose their instruments more wisely as opposed to giving them access to all 4 from the base start. Each of those instruments has a musical identity that should be respected and reinforced.

[ivory quartz]

Shouldn't have falchion either.

[vernal hedge]

onto this songs should scale more in a way that without investment they are weaker but with a lot of investment can actually be stronger than currently, bard gear feels like a slog because they do not care about it

[short heath]

STR giving health and damage is a bad idea. That allows double dipping, and is exactly why base kit Barbarians are as strong as they are (when compared to other classes in their base kits).

[ivory quartz]

Yeah I agree, strength is king among stats right now, because it gives both offensive and defensive power.

[stuck perch]

If bard is short term buffing with accelerando and allegro, they shouldn't have a whole lot of time to run around and smack things. So that they have access to crossbows or falchion is a different issue. As a bard if I'm going to spend my time casting to help my allies clear I need to provide at least as much as I or another class would if also focused on clearing, on top of being good enough to warrant the giant musical flares I'm sending to the rest of the dungeon which both scares away prey and attracts predators.

[short heath]

I think Bards should only be able to use Quarterstaff, Rapier, Short Sword, and daggers. No ranged weapons, no heavy 1-h melee weapons, no heavy 2-h melee weapons, and is fitting to what Bards usually are seen using.

[ivory quartz]

I agree, but as @stuck perch said what weapons they can use truly is a different matter from what actually makes them OP and is causing the balance issues. Whether they need to be effective in combat outside of buffs should be asked after that issue is addressed.

[stuck perch]

A class that still gets bursted by multiple other classes despite their class description having "extreme health" as a pro. Without alot of PDR that health doesn't make that all that much tanky. Agility does better for most characters considering that movement speed is king of all stats at the moment until you hit the cap.

[short heath]

Bard provides MORE than most classes do right now even after being nerfed into the ground, dude. Do you not know how much more damage you allow your teammates to deal over a specific amount of time due to increasing their movespeed and action speed alone?

[strong grotto]

Tell me a moment where ranger was able to one-shot someone in full plate even using long bow? You can't. Because even with the tripshot using longbow it is a THREE DIFFERENT INSTANCES of damage. The instances you can miss, enemy can dodge etc. While all ROGUES needed to do is press to buttons and BOOM. You stepped on the mine. No counter play. So it isn't surprising to me that rogues got shafted that hard. Besides, rangers already have a perk influencing the traps and they need to BUY those. Which way harder to do for average player, since you required to spend your gold on arrows AND traps. Thus, if your suggestion goes through - it will not "nerf" rangers. They will be buffed since they will no longer need to spend their resources to have traps in every game.

[ivory quartz]

I agree that agi is worth more on barb, but on fighter and cleric and rogue you always want strength. Most melee classes seem to prefer that stat, only barb and ranger prefer agi among the physical damage classes.

[stuck perch]

That's because they like all good support characters provide a force multiplier. A bard buffing a kitted fighter will provide a bigger increase than the same bard buffing a base fighter.

[short heath]

So literally none of what you said above makes any sense and you acknowledge that and yet you still stand by it.

[ivory quartz]

I don't defend rangers anymore, They deserve to have their slow, and rations and longbow damage taken away.

[stuck perch]

All the str in the world doesn't help you if you can't hit your targets. It doesn't help rogues who don't have the PDR to multiply that effective HP to where they can take a hit or two. Granted with diminishing returns rogues can use more strength but with the recent nerf to their agi, they'll want to stack agi as well.
@short heath what are you talking about not making sense?

[ivory quartz]

What, the fact that traps are a useable item is such a buff for that class. It means that you don't have to waste a perk or skill slot to have them and can take as many as your willing to buy. It is literally only a problem for the bottom 10% of the playerbase that can't extract.

[stuck perch]

What do you have against support characters? There's nothing wrong with them being force multipliers, they wouldn't be worth playing if they're not. It wouldn't be OP if proper counter play were available. From dispelling mechanics to proper CC.

[ivory quartz]

having 110 health is a big difference from 87 health. Is it as worthwile as having the increased effective health from PDR No. But having extra health as a rogue really does matter it is the differnce from getting 1 shot to two shot or turning a body shot from a two shot to a three.

[short heath]

Bards provide more than most classes do in all cases with their buffs. Your statement above implies they don't in some cases warrant the noise they make, but there isn't a single class that even comes close in utility as it is converted to combat applicability. There isn't a single case in which I'd prefer to have any other class if my team doesn't already have a Bard. That's not okay.

[short heath]

I don't have a problem with support characters. I have a problem with them making it impossible to engage against or run from, and especially both in one, unless you also have said class. No class. None. No class should be must take.

[stuck perch]

I'm not saying it's useless, just that not being hit is a higher priority.
@short heath Then add support and utility to other classes as you nerf bard down a bit. Instead of dunking on bard so much he's unlikely to see the light of day.

[short heath]

Bard has already been nerfed into the ground and is still must take for the reasons I already stated. Adding new supports isn't going to change that.

[ivory quartz]

True enough. We will see after tuesday if Rogues start preferring Agi after Str. I will admit that is one good outcome of the rogue nerf is that now they actually want AGi on their gear. Although I don't think that extra hit was warranted at all.

[stuck perch]

Bard isn't the only character acting as a force multiplier. Wizard provides more movement speed and attack speed than bards with a single spell. On top of the myriad of uses for invisibility and the much higher potential for burst damage through spells. Clerics also act as force multiplier with heals and shields. You may be stuck on bard being the best class, but I've been asked by people to play a cleric over a bard.

[short heath]

So long as movespeed and action speed remain the two most valuable stats in the game both in combat and outside of combat, Bard will remain must take unless you remove song stacking or place a diminishing return on song stacking.

[strong grotto]

I agree. I believe there should be a limit at music bards can play. They provide WAAAAAY too many buffs at the same time. I'd say, there needs to be as system like this: they should be able to play only one song at a given time, the song's effect can persist for a few seconds after you stop playing it (can be increased with perk). That way we will no longer see a team with 10 kinds of buffs at the same time and if bards are willing to provide a buff for their team in combat they would need to be locked in playing that song OR to drop it and join combat.
There. Bard is fixed.

[stuck perch]

It's what a support oriented playstyle should be. Not a "oh I can give you a flaming weapon for +5 damage" and call yourself a support focused class.

[vernal hedge]

Rogue doesn’t one shot either, they needed several hits to take down a full plated guy and guess what, rogue did that from melee where it can easily get 1 or 2 shot.
Ranger in the meanwhile does it from the safety of range lol and with the massive slow that longbow applies it’s not hard to hit all 3 hits from a triple shot.
Range has a perk for traps that nobody takes because there is 0 reason.
You don’t buy traps lmao, you simply queue into a game naked and back out, having rangers need to spend an actual perk or skill for traps would be a nerf because they are losing either triple shot/rations or they lose one of their damage perks, because basically every perk a ranger takes are damage increases

[short heath]

Wizard also has to actually be able to hit their target with their crosshair in order to apply said buffs, and they last a shorter amount of time. If your trio is running anything but Bard/Cleric or Wizard/dps class, you might as well be trolling. The problem is Bard being must take, again, for the many reasons I said above. If you're a support player and don't want to acknowledge that, then enjoy your privilege I guess. You just don't want your class to become balanced.

Not to mention that Bard songs hit all 3 members of your team and not just one per cast.

[stuck perch]

Because asking your team mate to stand still for half a second is asking too much? Bards also need to play that guitar hero mechanic well or their song effect will suck, songs aren't hard enough? Then remove charismatic performance. I'm all for the duration of haste being increased especially if the stats of the caster could influence the duration of the buff (they don't at the moment), make bard songs longer to cast, maybe removing charismatic performance would help there too. Your party has to be in range to be affected by those songs, which if your barb runs off at mach 3 being hasted at speed cap then good luck catching up to him all the time, often with the other party member running off in a different direction. All the buffs in the world are wasted if your mach 3 barb gets CC'd and he stands there like an idiot and so far most CC options in the game suck, and don't scale in a positive direction with any stat. Ranger's Trap may be the only decent CC out there yet people want it removed because too hardcore.

If you make EVERY class required in a comp, then none of them are truly required and it's just up to personal tastes.

[short heath]

You can't tell someone to stand still in the middle of a fight unless you want them to just sit and take free damage. You're being ignorant in assuming the only application of buffing is prior to the engagement.

[stuck perch]

I know buffing also applies in the middle of fights, but if my team mates can take cues from me to back up a bit and stand still for a heal or a buff, then other players could do the same.

[fading crater]

no meme next wipe should test zero trading

[stuck perch]

I don't mind the bard being tuned but sacrificing the fun of the class isn't worth it. Every class should be fun to play regardless of what they do. The bard nerfs took that away and not just the movement and attack speed buffs but also the recovery aspect of bards, and most of their other utility as well.

[strong grotto]

https://youtu.be/2hxFSeIDwmQ?t=13
It is link with time stamp. It was ONE. TAP. Now tell me it was fun to play against, please.

Further more, in order to SAFELY hit someone from the range you need to be: 1 - on absolutely open space, 2 - there should be not a single cover for your target, 3 - your target must be absolutely empty in their head, because any reasonable person after getting hit once will search for cover or simply leave the area. And yes, it is "easy" to land a hit with longbow after slow. But you need to be either pin point accurate with your arrows from the SAFE distance, as you say. Did you know, that even in DaD there is still a skill required to do so? It is called having a good aim?
There is a reason to take that perk. You don't play him, apparently. That perk is there precisely to nerf the traps usage, because without it - it takes you an eternity to place one, which can often decide the outcome of if you are going to your stash to place gold in it or to take your spare set out of it.
You do buy traps. You have 2 traps in your default set. If you used them - they are gone. Give 10 gold for each, please. You don't have it? You are out of traps then. What a shame.

It took me like 10 attempts to post this, because stupid moderation that doesn't even tells you what exactly is WRONG with you text and what you need to redact, FFS!!!

[stuck perch]

Yet bards are as loud as ever, but people complain that they can't run away from the bard when they knew he was there for the last 2 minutes which they spent breaking pots and making noise until they were surprised by a buffed barbarian destroying a door and chopping them up with a horseman's.

[ivory quartz]

I agree with Ghost he convinced me, Giving bards a limited number of casts to each song, or making songs go on cooldown will hurt the class identity of bard. Other changes should be looked at like repeated song playing for more effect, or higher difficulty songs. But ideally we actually want bards to be playing songs all the time, that is the class identity and what makes them fun to play as. They just need to not be as oppressive. I think the biggest issue with Bard and all buffing classes in this game is just how buffs stack with each other with no priorty or diminishing returns, but that is a different conversation.

[ivory quartz]

That example was cherry picked. That rogue was super geared, and I mean super gigachad geared rogue. And the guys he was fighting prob had minimal gear. You can tell because a similarly geared cleric wouldnt been oneshot the pdr simply would have been too high. A ranger with similar gear would have killed in the same time frame with tripleshot longbow if not one shot them to the head.

[ivory quartz]

Also I hate the automod aswell, can't even use a word like OrthoD O X because it has D O X in it

[stuck perch]

It is a different conversation, but the problem is limited counters and limited ways to mitigate or manage the result if you don't have a counter readily available. Dispelling mechanics could remove the oppressive buff stacks, some hard CC could also mitigate the problem by turning the fear of the incoming doom ball. For example what happens when a barbarian with all the buffs in the word steps in a ranger trap? The danger he poses becomes very localized. More CC options would provide different ways of handling these comps without needing remove the toys from the classes that make these comps strong.

[ivory quartz]

I think warlock should get a spell or ability like BOC that just purges buffs

[stuck perch]

Yeah that works, I'd think his ability would "corrupt" the buffs turning them into dots and having them deal damage, meaning the more buffs your target had the harder this ability hits.

If a poke from a warlock is enough to turn your raging buff ball into a weeping baby, the meta would shift, sure buff balls would still happen but players that are afraid of them would pack a warlock or other character with something to counter that meta.

[tribal knot]

Fighters RANGING EVERYONE before getting into melee when they are already TANKY as hell is a bit much.... i hope it gets look at as im sick to death the FIGHTER being a FIGHTER and a RANGER and just being a better choice for anyone who wants to be a RANGER, its best just going a fighter to have the extra defense its stupid

[hot hemlock]

Ranger has mobility and damage over fighter.

[tribal knot]

fighter has a SPRINT and Can weather ALOT of DMG before using Second wind ..... the ranger is usels vs them or pretty much anyone who isnt just as squishy as them.

[strong grotto]

We discussed this already. Fighter is nowhere near to be better than ranger. Not even to mention how much he needs to spend on his equipment to actually be tanky.

[vernal hedge]

bruh I love myself fighter fights has a ranger, they are the easiest shit to kite lol

[tribal knot]

The fighter ranges anyone now before getting into combat .. the RANGER ONLY HAS RANGE beofre his last resort is mele

the fighters last resort isnt his mele as thats his CLASS

[vernal hedge]

yah, but you have way better ranged damage, you are also faster, and you have triple shot to punish him pushing you, has a ranger if you are getting pushed by a full plate you should be able to kite and win.
plus if you use spear, spear on ranger is insane lmao

[tribal knot]

wow 10% of lets say a 42DMG Longbow is only 2.1 DMG...WOOP DEE DO AGAINST A FIGHTER

[vernal hedge]

10%+15% hs damage+5% physical power with long range

[tribal knot]

ITS STILL NOTHING

[vernal hedge]

idk what to say to you, I can show you clips of me kitting full plate and even lobsters with longbow, remenber to shoot feet

[tribal knot]

kiting kiting kiting were talkiig about Learned movment ... the point im making is the DMG rangers get vs what a fighter can do is miniscule when they soak it up with theri armour.... there is pretty much no point in going a ranger when all u loose will be a the main tripple shot that seems to be the only usefull perk.

[vernal hedge]

You want to disregard one of them strong points ranger has in a matchup where that’s key?
Stay bad l bozo

[strong grotto]

Someone got shot in the butt by fighter it seems... Jokes aside, did you know that your best option to fight range weapon is not to be in their sight? If you aren't preapared as that fighter was to fight at range - LEAVE. You aren't supposed to fight everyone and everything. Seek a better position, a better opportunity and take his boots home with you.

[vernal hedge]

And the fact you say triple shot is the only viable skill just proves you are playing it wrong

[tribal knot]

Im sick fed up of ppl crying skill issue or u not playing the game right, you can tell the redditors by a mile

[vernal hedge]

The irony in that is beautiful

[thorn pewter]

Alright, WHEN IS IM gonna change this PATHETIC full geared full team vs low geared solo player bash gonna FIX? Just pathetic and ruining game experience for many Players who dont want to compete in this bs nolife gear grind. Do you notice?

[hoary dirge]

I honestly think the TTK for rogue coming out of stealth is incredibly high given the additional damage that came with the perks. However, I also think that people aren't taking the combos into consideration either. 3rd hit on stilleto does 140% damage, mixed in with what was 50% damage increase and 50% weapon damage from weakpoint adds up to a really high first hit. So I definitely think the ambush and weakpoint nerfs are justified, albeit I feel like weakpoint should have a slight modifier for the next hit rather than just stripping armor rating.

[strong grotto]

Yet it is:

• Multishot is nowhere near as helpful.
• Rations are solid, but can be skipped.
• Penetrating shot is highly situational.
• Forceful Shot is just a meme.
• Quick fire is situational and easily forgotten.
• True shot is stupid.

[vernal hedge]

Have you used any of those skills? Or you saying it from reading the tooltip?

[strong grotto]

It is frustrating, sure. But there is a catch. When you are naked and they aren't - cooperate better, maybe even with the other skill and take their boots home. They risk far more, than you are.

I need to add, though, that it is not even about geared vs ungeared situation that is the problem. It is the gap between tiers of equipment that actually makes this situation bad. Remove that gap or reduce it and the game will be much better.

[strong grotto]

I did use them. I find them absolutely useless if you compare them with tripshot. I can combine tripshot with some of them, but there is now World in witch I will replace the tripshot itself. It is the same situation with fighters, actually. The second wind and sprint are so heads above of what other skills provide, taht there is zero reason to take anything besides those.

[bleak dagger]

Does anyone know when they will hold the live Q&A they were talking about?

[vernal hedge]

Multishot is nowhere near as helpful. - Amazing skill to shotgun with, my favourite ruins comp is lightly armoured cleric so he can quite more easily with me going spear ranger with triple shot and multishot
Rations are solid, but can be skipped. - the beginner safety
Penetrating shot is highly situational. - great dps potential mixed with triple shot
Forceful Shot is just a meme. - yep this is a meme
Quick fire is situational and easily forgotten. - situational but can be used in place of penetrating shot for ridiculous burst damage
True shot is stupid. - true shot + penetrating shot + crossbows, not everything is a bow perk and this on a good windlass is more akin to a sniper

[strong grotto]

So, you basically confirmed all I've said. Especially your last part about "sniper" setup, which is, again, SITUATIONAL for only ONE type of weapon. Wow.

[thorn pewter]

ye its just when you crouch as naked bard with zero loot to a fully juiced team of 3 they still rush at you like you are santa clause and just 1tap you. I wonder what for? Id never do that. I would never go full geared team into low gear single player. Its just pathetic. And yes imo this need to be changed or players like me will just leave game alone. And what happens is that this will be the dream game for like the 5% Hardcore players. And yes, the nolife hardcore gear grinders and noob bashers. Cant articulate it different as it is so. GG

[vernal hedge]

if thats how you read it sure, you make it seems there only 2 options for ranger when there actually a lot you can do, just maybe you don't wanna drop rations

[brittle summit]

Add a crystal dagger, similar in stat spread to crystal sword. Would make poison rogue a viable decision to play.

[tribal knot]

disagree, giving Rouges more DMG vs MAgic resist would negate the reduction in dmg already

[short heath]

It's damage over time versus an actual oneshot that you cannot react to, which is much more healthy for overall gamestate.

[tribal knot]

so magic dmg is just their dot.. k i can see a posion ticking longer just like the goblins being appropriate as long as it didnt give them TTK any quicker

[strong grotto]

It is pathetic. It is also pathetic from the other side. Look at this from their perspective: they go inside fully prepared and in full confidence that those "peasants" are about to fight each other while they will simply go in and wipe the floor of dregs. If those naked people were more inclined to COOPERATE instead of killing each other at first sight - the situation would never be a problem. So it is not them walking in wearing gucci in a room of bums that are in the wrong. They've earned that drip and want to give it a ride. It is those bums, who instead of cooperation will kill each other for scraps instead of fighting off those walking piñatas.

The situation can only be fixed if community will simply accept THREE BASIC RULES OF CONDUCT:
1 - Do not attack first. If you are fully aware of threat or attacked - you are free for any kind of response. People will die even without you personally engaging them.
2 - If the fight is avoidable - do not fight. Reasons to fight in this game aren't making a long list. It is either if your are surrounded by hostiles or if there is only one portal left and you are 2+ people in the room left.
3 - Engage other team only if you have a conflicting interests. That is if you came down to fight the boss and they are here to fight the boss. Deck it out then. Winner takes all.

But, as I've said, instead we have bunch of idiots who will always chose violence no matter what and are willing to kill each other for those with more gold (and thus better chances, since potions and equipment are sold) to simply become even more richer.

[tribal knot]

but thats not how its being played GEARD Teams or geard solos are just stomping Fresh spawns....its unfair when they have +2 rings cape pendands and armoured to the hilt....Going into something like goblins should be a FRESH GEAR ONLY and to build up whatever greens or blues u can to then go into CRYPTS with others

[real trellis]

"People should play the game how I want them to play the game and only PvP against people who are way more geared than them"
lol

[strong grotto]

Again. How many those geared are in the lobby usually? 1? 3? Why those naked just don't go straight to one place in the dungeon and not engage those fully geared? Them not doing anything that isn't prohibited. They simply want to test their gear in the safest environment possible. Well, then MAKE THAT ENVIRONMENT NOT SAFE.

[thorn pewter]

Iagree with you but you cant rely on any "gentlemen agreement" this has purely to be fixe by IM otherwise im gone. And so will be the big swarm of/casual players. And i already play way too many h/day. Also game has a very toxic atmosphere witch i never experienced and this is so sad. IMO game is totally driven by greed and bad manners. Now you can argue well its an loot game but idk man this greed and BM and toxicity is not my world. You can even wathc big streamers running in fully juiced team bashing noobs and calling them bit ches. Ye very gg. Game is totally broken and im only arranging with it atm. And i have a big patience nerve but idk how long i will take this shit. Unfortunately i play solo alot due to my friends hve better things to do then wasting their lifetime on toxic/bm game 😦 wich i fully understnad 😦

[tribal knot]

When someone is as geared as a TERMINATOR they shouldnt need to be in a lower skill or LOWER loot dungeon, they should be fighting for higher gear in other dungeons .. against other GEARED SWEATS for better loot.... a fresh spawn isnt giving them anything other than a hard on for killing someone in game

[strong grotto]

No. They should play the way it makes sense to them. I only told you how I play.
Yes. There is no reason to fight anyone, if all you will get are trinkets to sell the collector to. Tell me, what costs more? A purple cape or cracked pot? Blue cuirass +2 all or green ring? One of those you are able to get from the people, that are naked. Other is what you can take from those who aren't. Which would you chose to obtain, smartass?

[thorn pewter]

wtf you think i do? you think i go look for them? Dumb commen, really. I play rat like 90% of the game but still they chase you down. This is just coward and BM play(not talking about the toxicty). In other games we used to call it noob bash and the good no-noob player comunity didnt like those noob bashers. We only played or invited good players. THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED. Also those juiced players dont test their equipment. I saw streamers like brad quackson telling like 7 lowroller lobby runs in god gear he was testing. What a BS really. Just pathetic comunity imo. Unfortunately. Game is only made for thos who dedicate their life to the grind and also have more frineds who do the same. Now prove me wrong!

I remember when i played path of exile back in the day i enjoyed playing thos runs were everybody started at the same starting position naked and then the competition started. I think game need s such a mode urgently. THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT SKILL. Anything else is just. WHO SPENDS/WATSES MORE LIFETIME GRINDING AND HAS BIGGER COMMUNITY WHO ALSO WASTE MROE LIFETIME GRINDING.... thats zero skill sorry.

[strong grotto]

What you tell is "turn the game into a police state". Sure. It will work, with hard boundaries placed and rules enforced by banhammer. For a while. Then it will collapse. What I propose is "introduce a bit of morality into game about greed and it will last forever". Ever heard about Lord feeding the crowd with only few fishes and bread? It is a story about need to SHARE and COOPERATE.
And yes, the game is toxic and competitive. Which is why it fun to watch. TO WATCH, not to play, especially not as the one playing the role of "no-name barb #4 killed" in a match for some TTV scum lord. That is why it is important for community to have some morals and cooperate in games more.

[thorn pewter]

WTf you talking about police state? rofl. At this point i almost stopped reading your comment. Ofc i will read it but i dont get this sorry

You cannot count on those morals. Unless its set from a higher institution. Or the devs or like in my other games "where us the no-noob comunity" planned/hosted games with only no noobs. We had zero fun in bashing noobs as we wanted a gg and if you win its way more rewarding. Also you congratulate the other players. here its PURE TOXICITY

Game needs MMR system/gear cap. There is no argument for me ( ihavent heard any good wich deletes the argument of a fair balanced environment). Anything else is just pure noob bash to make nolifes feel superior(dont take nolife as an insult but as description of the game loop or players who tryhard) . It may hurt your feelings but it is so

We can talk about skill if for example a lobby has max green items allowed. Then we cn talk about skill. And if you rush to skel champ or centipede and you farm your op item then its good thats part of being skilled(mapknowledge/understanding)

Anything else is just nolifes/tryhards showboating/noobbashing their gear

[vernal hedge]

problem is both mmr systems and gear based matchmaking are not something that fit this genre, game is supposed to be hardcore, unpredicatable, punishing
adding any sort of matchmaking will remove the unpredicatable, all matchs will end up being the same and this will push more people to brainlessly follow the meta

What they need to do is create incentive for the gear to be used elsewhere as well as there being some closing the gap between geared and ungeared.

[thorn pewter]

well imo it does fit perfectly. Nah how is this unpredictable? You can still have big encounters by juiced vs juiced. You think youre alone in hell but you neeed to fight for your endgamegear heavily at boss even with other teams. Thats real gg

[strong grotto]

You said it yourself, that you want IM to heavily regulate that problem. It isn't regulatable from top. It should be regulated by players.

[thorn pewter]

MMR and gearcap fit absolutely perfectly. You go in full green and you need to show skill and rush centipede for betetr gear for example to get the edge over others. same for purple lobbies and so on

It is regulatable and so it should be. And thats not a police state idk what made you bring up this word. totally misplaced/misused sorry

NAd ofc it will regulate itself. But in the way that in any amopunt of time there will be only the tryhards left to play this game. IMO

[strong grotto]

Gearcap - perhaps. But then you will never be able to have a lucky kill on some lobster and loot him.
MMR - no. It will only create more toxicity and breed smurfs.

[thorn pewter]

Why not you can go naked into a purple lobby. Feel free to do it if your confident enough to take out 3 juiced players or at least 1

[vernal hedge]

adding a matchingmaking makes everything predicatable because I know that evryone is as gear or more than me up to a certain cap where theyd go into another lobby, people will optimize sets to go to specific queues, for me it would remove the magic from the game and delete the feeling of snowballing

[thorn pewter]

Bro my magic is gone. Sorry. Also i dont want to ruin your game expereinece but mine is totally ruined already. Im just trying to safe the game from being a nieche game for tryhards. And this is what it is going to be soon. Its ok if its your dreamgame then but by then most players left the game. If thats your goal i will fight against this "imo stupidity" and if i lose im gone for sure. Ive already played another hardcore grind game where it was basically a bunch of players ruling the whole environment. For those few players/nolifes/tryhards(call them whatever you want but you know exactly what i mean and that im right even if it hurts your feelings) ofc its the dream game. GG and RIP game then

You cannot define a game by letting the hardcore players be the only ones having fun/benefiting from it or? I know already many players who already left game. I mean its good for IM and if they didnt steal anything they deserve every single dollar and im proud to even having supported them even if i stop the game. But i dont want to let this game go into this direction

Also i think it would ruin the game and even IM would sell less copies. Just wait for the steam comments... 😦

On top, i dont even get it how it can be fun to bash noobs? Whenever i played agame in the past and i got a noob as enemy I insta left cause i dont wanted to lose lifetime to just play vs low skill. I mean WTF lol

[haughty bison]

this is a wild take. I've level 3 fighters while I was sick the past few days. Got each to 15 in 4 or 5 hours of playing with a full stash and over 1k gold each. It's insane to me how quickly people give up or "lose their magic" after having some misfortunate. It's literally described as a hardcore dungeon crawl experience then people get upset when they run into the hardcore aspects of the game and lose their loot to someone more geared. Learn to fight geared people. Learn the maps so you can escape from them. Learn to use invis potions to drop aggro of mobs onto those geared people. A single trap from a ranger can ruin a geared persons run. So many ways to counter it but people don't want to learn, they just want to win and thats what's toxic. learn to fail and learn to learn from it lol

[thorn pewter]

Make gearcap where you cant join with higher gear but you can join with lower. LEts try this out and then we can argue again or not? Why not try...

[vernal hedge]

This is good discussion because it is a big divide in the game atm, I might prefer how it is currently but I can recognize many don’t.
It also comes down to appealing to different playerbases, on my side of the coin I’ve had plenty of friends of mine start up and enjoy the game because it filled a hard to fill niche and also the fact that the game is still very recent and we are still to see loads of system that would keep this more in check.
I’ve played tarkov for 6 or 7 years and at the start of the game there was also a lot of request for gear based matchmaking and mmr and how not having it would kill the game yet the game kept on growing because people vibed with the vision of the game

[thorn pewter]

Giving up fast? you just point sth into the dark wich you dont knwo. I play since playtest 2 rofl. I have always had several character with gold, items and keys. So you just assume things you dont now 😦

[haughty bison]

was a gerenal observation. I know you took it personal maybe because you did get up fast but I wasn't saying it directly at you lol

[thorn pewter]

I still have legacy items. Whats the whole point now....

Ye but tka emy comments from someone with experience/who spent alot of time/ and who "has stuff/stash" and i think im still richer and/or better then most players. Wich I only state to tell you im not just talking bs and promoting bs ideas or at least that i have a valid point or background or reason

[thorn pewter]

I dint take it personal id ont even if you insult me its just that it was unlogic to me because you dont know my standing or howeer you want to call it 😉 sorry im not native english^^

WHatever i again wasted too much of my lifetime wich i should evaluate way more precious 😉

At least Ive trained my english writing skills a little bit lol

[real trellis]

You literally laid out rules for how the community should play lmao so don't give me that "I only told you how I play" crap. Also what do you think happens after the two lowbie teams gang up and kill a 3man with gear? Are they just going to nicely divide up the loot between them? Or are they going to kill eachother because each team wants all of it?

[haughty bison]

that's why it was a general observation but the way you responded def said you took it personal. Anyway, stop spreading doomer stuff please. Game is in early access of course the population is going to come and go. It spikes every update which they are putting out a bunch. Other games and expansions are coming out that people are going to go visit then maybe come back after some things have been addressed. Every single game goes through this in one way or another. The best remedy to your frustration is to take a break then go back in. I lose all morning, take a break and come back to be unstoppable. You have to develop proper habits and consistence will come. So many people have bad habits, like not healing or reloading before looting and another dude comes up after you just fought and you get 1 shot because of those bad habits

[thorn pewter]

You guys wanted the unpredictable experience lol. Also you come up with a nieche situation. Cant take this serious. Sorry. But noobbashing in this game is not a nieche situation

[real trellis]

I wasn't talking to you muchacho

[thorn pewter]

salty? Sorry my fault

[strong grotto]

Depends on how they able to communicate. All I want is for people to TALK MORE before resorting to violent option.

[strong grotto]

If I go naked in a geared lobby I may not be able to take someone down, sure. But you can be sure I will try if I have to. I have zero to lose - they have lots.

[real trellis]

Why don't you keep your witty comments for someone who is actually arguing with you instead of trying to pick fights with everyone

[thorn pewter]

I know its EA and thats why i give (constructive) feedback. Thats all. Also i relaod i heal before looting i always jump when switching weapon or doing things. Stuff like this. Buta thats not the point or the issue here

[thorn pewter]

Whats your point? Besides of describing a situation. With either zero context or wrong context?

[vernal hedge]

I’m guessing you are in European servers?

[strong grotto]

You asked - I've answered. What do you mean?

[bleak dagger]

it appears like you are playing the wrong game. It basically is a gear grind. Maybe play fortnite instead.
crying for mmr or gearcap is so utterly stupid. You didn't even think this one step further. What you are basically asking for is removing gear entirely from the game; nothing else.

[thorn pewter]

Im not picking fights. Doesnt picking fights look different? WTF is wrong omg. I even edited the comment and excused for my false context. And asked if his "muchahcho" is salty. bro pls

[strong grotto]

EU Central. People here are stupid aggressive. They take a fight even if they die the second after to zone or mobs instead of simply sharing the portals.

[thorn pewter]

ok troll spotted

[bleak dagger]

haha anyone disregarding your oppinion is a troll. Whatever lad.

[vernal hedge]

That’s not a game problem, it’s a Europe problem, it’s whats happened when you have over 20 languages in one continent even in competitive games like csgo you have issues getting people to communicate.
For this you have to go to American servers sadly

[thorn pewter]

You are for sure

we have a discussion here. And you for sure are not part of it youre just a troll. Ppl can judge it

[strong grotto]

True, but I think people can manage communicating even without understanding each other. Once again - do not attack if you aren't attacked first or if your interests are not directly conflicting. Even wild beasts will not attack each other if they can help it.

[bleak dagger]

i can judge your IQ based on this statement alone.

[thorn pewter]

rofl i didnt want to write taht but that exactly was my thinking. Your just a troll and you keep trolling. Ppl can judge it

[narrow snow]

Give us the patch notes. Wipe is tomorrow. Would like atleast 24 hours of prep.

[real trellis]

24 hours for whatever class that's getting nerfed to complain about it you mean

[narrow snow]

24 hours to level whatever classes aren't absolutely dogshit to level 20

[real trellis]

If you don't have all your classes at 15 or more by now I don't know what to tell you

[narrow snow]

I consistently delete and remake toons. Also 15 dosent = 20

[real trellis]

20 doesn't mean anything

[narrow snow]

Wrong

[vernal hedge]

?

[real trellis]

Ok so what exactly does 20 do for you mechanically that 15 doesn't, at this point in game development where we don't have the skill training feature yet?

[narrow snow]

Well if we had the patch notes. We would know if we'll get our skill trees or not.

[vernal hedge]

We 99% aren’t getting them

[narrow snow]

I mean you don't know that so

[real trellis]

So you're arguing with me about whether 20 means anything based on a possibility that we MIGHT get skill trees with the upcoming patch?

[vernal hedge]

This wipe is happening earlier than expected because of the dupe glitch so I don’t expect anything from this other than balancing, some qol and warlock expansion

[real trellis]

Ok lol. I'll stay here in the real world and you have fun in la-la land.

[narrow snow]

No it's not. They hotfixed that. Wipe is actually pushed back to Tommorow. It was literally postponed. Wipe is not happening earlier bc of dupe.

It's crazy you're shitting on me for wanting patch notes 24 hrs beforehand when games give it sometimes over a week in advance

[crystal quail]

plenty of games only drop notes on patch release tho

[vernal hedge]

You are clueless.
These are the devs words from the post on the official website”Due to the side effects from the duping bug, we have decided to execute the next Early Access wipe much earlier than expected. We plan to wipe the game in tandem with the Early Access Patch #1 next Tuesday”

[narrow snow]

Name me one single decent game that does that. Destiny 2 LOL Apex legends Valorant CS Tarkov all have timely patch notes

[real trellis]

I'm not shitting on you for that I'm shitting on you for basing your 20>15 argument on nothing

[vernal hedge]

https://www.darkanddarker.com/news/5
postponed lmao

[narrow snow]

It's sort of industry standard to have timely patch notes

Also saying it's unlikely we get skill tress. Why would they let us keep our levels if we weren't???

[vernal hedge]

Because skill trees are a new progression system, so it makes sense they wipe our level and get data on how we react to these changes through early, mid and late game

[wooden meadow]

maybe skill trees are not bound to levels? or start at lvl 20?

[crystal quail]

ope Fr0sty hit him with the "basic reading skills"

@narrow snow "name me one single decent game" Every supergiant game (hades was a big one for example), darkest dungeon, FF14, Cyberpunk just dropped theirs with 2.0,

[stable prism]

If they were adding trees they would reset the level to properly test it

[real trellis]

Why would they impliment skill trees while leaving levels alone so that people with higher level chars have a noted and instant advantage over lower level?

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495248/arrowweapon-collision

Arrows should collide w. weapons.

[narrow snow]

Names only single player games ff14 puts patch notes out before the patch idk what ur on about

[real trellis]

Someone with a level 14 character would not only have 2 more perks than a level 1 character but also way more skill training "points" or whatever

[narrow snow]

Skill tress only start at 20 pretty sure that part was leaked atleast according to mr strimmers

[crystal quail]

you didnt say multiplayer big boy, games are more than one genre. I was jsut checking dates, ff put out 6.4 notes like an hour prior lol

[jagged flicker]

Why would they? The game is incomplete, lmao.

[real trellis]

huh, really

[vernal hedge]

And you named mostly full released game with a competitive scene in comparison to an indie, early access niche game…

[jagged flicker]

Oh hey again Fr0sty. 👋

[crystal quail]

@narrow snow more importantly tho, even if you dont get timely patchnotes, it doesnt matter. You dont need them

[real trellis]

Maybe once the game is in full release we will get patch notes before patch day

[jagged flicker]

fair critisism is fair.

[vernal hedge]

Mister lovely,
Have to say you suggestion are getting better and better, this would be dope since you can parry arrows already

[narrow snow]

Hop off my meat lmao if you think riding my meat this hard is warranted cause I asked for patch notes ur sad

It's not an unreasonable suggestion or request. Simple as that.

[crystal quail]

@narrow snow im sure you think this is what getting rode feels like but i promise you at best im stroking your thigh rn. The whole "name a single good game that doesnt do X" just makes ya look like a goof so i went for the low hanging fruit.

[vernal hedge]

You asked for patch notes while making out assumptions to be a fact when you were dead wrong as per what devs have already said

[narrow snow]

Yes I'm dead wrong. U happy man? You care that much about being right on the internet?

[crystal quail]

lol hes upset

[vernal hedge]

No, just don’t make yourself to speak the truth when you don’t know, good tip for real life too

[narrow snow]

I'm not? Yall are the ones being hyper aggressive. Kinda weird broo

[crystal quail]

lol totally not

[strong grotto]

Just make all weapons and shields as solid objects with texture, that always have some "meat" behind them and program what exactly beats what if two are meeting each other.

[narrow snow]

Keep popping off tho I'll see you in game tmr and take all your goodies frendo, my loot now

[bleak dagger]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487729/see-equipment-of-teammates-in-the-lobby

[crystal quail]

collision tracking on fast objects is rough, adding more room for interaction leaves more room for irritation for the one shooting the bullet

[vernal hedge]

I’ll be glad to meet you and duel to the death sir

[jagged flicker]

More Solo maps have been confirmed for awhile. :3 We just gotta wait for the food to be done.

[crystal quail]

id be down to see a gobbo portal that takes you to high roller. But i think if you split caves into two levels it'll just end up with one or two folks into the hell map for free

[thorn pewter]

Suggestion: give lonesome wolves/solo players the possibilty to access a solo inferno/hellruns after goblin caves TY!

[vernal hedge]

Wait really?
#IDontFeelSoGoodMrStark

[strong grotto]

It is nothing that is impossible in 2023, I believe.

[jagged flicker]

Some dev QnA confirmed this, this was before the ruins was converted to duo. So it's been a bit.

[crystal quail]

(which is basically what happens on the normal 3 man maps, but usually you can get like 2/3 teams later iun a patch). Id like to see more auto down routs via stairs that are open early. Like if you get there first you go down.

@strong grotto impossible absolutely not, not worth the results/stress? likely. Colision is hard! (and expensive! the faster something is the more you have to check for it)

[jagged flicker]

Earlier down portals seems fine in theory but you'd be in that square waiting room for ages.

[crystal quail]

^fair

[strong grotto]

We already have our weapon, arrows and spells bounce of the goblin shields when they aren't even raised, same with skeletons. Just take that as a base.

[jagged flicker]

Weapon on weapon collision would mean chamber blocking, which is peak sword fighting.

The sparks flying, the drama of a staggered hit as my tiny ass shortsword meets a 2h axe and I cri.

[crystal quail]

see that points out the problem, that bounce off hte gobbo shield is prob cause they're using a big simple shape for a box to keep it as simple as possible, the more accurate you aim for the heavier it gets

[vernal hedge]

Id personally hope not, I don’t wanna see this game become pubg in which you have 10 different ways to queue because of group size, competitive or not(hr or normal), first or third person view, maps etc

This segments the community too much and if high roller match don’t start full and even normal sometimes don’t have prelevel 15 lobbies were a thing we shouldn’t add more queues

Edit: what can work is adding a second layer to goblin/ruins and do it like they have mentioned where it’ll grab people from other lobbies instead of just the one you were in

[crystal quail]

like say you want to use a rounded shape instead of a square for a hitbox. Okay well not you're tracking about 30 or so more triangles on every gobblin in the caves interacting with or without a player

[jagged flicker]

Yeah the skeleton, and goblin shields work all the time, but my shields have to be blocking to block, it's not fair. I think I used SHIELD BASH and an arrow sailed through it while I thrusted it out.

[narrow snow]

I love free loot

[strong grotto]

Yet longsword parry exists.

[crystal quail]

now thats a fair point. I dont mind a sheild existing as a reduced damage zone like limbs or w/e when lowered

[jagged flicker]

There are plans to release multiple maps a year once their groundwork is finished.

[crystal quail]

therte are way less longsowrds in the map and you dont have to check for that colision until parry is enabled, and its likely a box! Of course you have to do good colision where you can, but they also want to spare themselves the load when you can too

[vernal hedge]

Id hope not unless they are rotating them or that layer 2/3 could have different maps, this game doesn’t have population to divide through so many maps and game modes

[crystal quail]

Id be down for a rotation

[jagged flicker]

Lower the Q cap of maps by 3 across the 3player maps is a nice fix.

[strong grotto]

Then enable that same collision only on the weapon of players and only.

[crystal quail]

we'd have to get BIG numbers for a whole slew of them.

[vernal hedge]

So if instead of 3 hr crypts layouts there was crypts hr, delve hr and dragon caves hr(random names for hr maps)

[jagged flicker]

Most people are of the shared opinion that there should be less content as far as maps go, because the community is niche.

I don't agree but I see where their fear arises.

Maybe HR should be abolished, and there should just be many maps of differing dangers.

[crystal quail]

could work, but operate under the idea of they're currently hitting their load max and now its all about resource sharing. If you aim for improvements in one area, something else has to be adjusted to make up for the load (probably, we dont actually know how hard the game is being pushed, but usually Unreal defaultish games like this are always pushing their caps since half the game is still unoptimized)

[crystal quail]

id like to see a token into HR you get after so many extractions (or you find like candy), that would make it more popular from the jump

[vernal hedge]

Not for less content as far as maps, I’m down for loads of different biomes and places to explore, but there would have to be some sort of rotation or level 2/3 map pool for it to not divide us too much, specially if taking into account high roller

[jagged flicker]

That I would upvote. A HR voucher, or an ingame loot item like a map that lets you in and waives the fee.

[crystal quail]

they really gotta get back on steam.

[jagged flicker]

I could see this as the game gets older. But for now, I just want more things to play with.

[vernal hedge]

Steam too soon can be bad, this game as is currently would get review bombed which can hurt the game getting to the hands of people that would like it because of normie reviews

[strong grotto]

Well, I am not telling it should be implement with a snap of a fingers. I realize it is a work load and the game itself isn't even ready 100% yet. It is just something developers should aim for in the future. Besides, if they will be able to manage the game smart - I have no doubt there will be more than enough of cash to be thrown at the problem.

[jagged flicker]

If you wanna throw up a suggestion I'd upvote it and share on my home discord.

[vernal hedge]

Can also make I drop pretty often, or even guaranteed from normal hell bosses has a way to incentivize people to go hell, do bosses and try high roller

[crystal quail]

theres no way someone else hasnt made that suggestion yet!
@strong grotto fair stuff man! you're right, none of thse additions/suggestions need to be looked at like its a "NEXT PATCH" thing

[narrow snow]

Mendo had a cool suggestion on stream for HR. Rather than making us pay 150g make us bring in 300g as a team as a cost. That way the gold isn't lost to time and it still creates risk for entering, however also rewards for killing players with the gold they were carrying.

[crystal quail]

tbh i wish teh game just went through a massive art optimization pass, you can see ssoooo many areas where you could save load

[strong grotto]

That's... Good. Not perfect, but good.

[vernal hedge]

It’s aight but I think it goes against them having the entry has a gold sink since essentially every he player is burning 200g+ minimum per run

[narrow snow]

Other ways for gold sinks, stash space, merchant rep or quests, Trading hall, it would still create a bit of a gold sink as not all that gold would make it out either

[vernal hedge]

I forgot which game did it but the way I’d like it seen is if you are able to extract HR you don’t need to pay the fee again until you die

[narrow snow]

Yeah not every HR run can you make back the 150g sometimes you wanna take some kits home to your stash. Etc. Now Yeah I can sell that stuff but might not always want to

[crystal quail]

the trade system is so sad here. I really wish it did the whole exchange listing system instead. Greed is Good has one and its very nice. Imo they could even keep both just to maintain some interaction.

[narrow snow]

I want a WOW type auction house personally. But that's just what I'm used to

[crystal quail]

whats wow got? is it similar to like grand exchange in Runescape

[vernal hedge]

Similar but a bit more complex has there items with mods like in dark and darker

[narrow snow]

Action house with buyouts and a decent filter

[strong grotto]

There is still a gold sink with all the consumables they usually carry and it is much more than just 200g. Additionally not every sack of gold they will take with them are going to make it out - PvE deaths, loot that is more valuable, than the gold sacks. That way at least some lucky naked player can not only get out with loot, but some coins too.

[narrow snow]

Current trade is just a Chat wich I doubt is a permanent solution

[narrow snow]

This exactly this

[fresh wyvern]

Anybody know what the update changes gonna be?

[narrow snow]

Could also add a mechanic in the dungeon where you deposit coins or something to open a door. OR you gotta switch your gold bag with a statue Indiana Jones style or a Boulder crushes you

[strong grotto]

Rogues will receive a buff, warlock will become necromancer, barbarians will wear glasses and wizards will become ripped with muscles. Also rangers are getting penta shot instead of tripshot.

[narrow snow]

Indiana Jones type mechanic unlikely but would be really cool and incentive to bring gold

[fresh wyvern]

I knew about the penta shot and the muscles with glasses update. Didn’t know about the others. Thanks 🤙

[narrow snow]

Careful man. They might attack you for wanting patch notes before tmr ;>

[real trellis]

Interesting prospect... That way if one of your team dies and you have to dip without getting much loot you can still grab their part of the gold ante and some of their gear and not really lose much

[vernal hedge]

I know this, that’s why I like the current system, 200 g are instantly deleted(150 entry and 50 for luck por, if you don’t use it you’re inting)+plus all the consumables has currently there isn’t really any alternatives for a good gold sink outside of goblin merchant

[narrow snow]

Meds and gold pouches too

[strong grotto]

Oh, yeah? Did you know that female rogues will receive cat ears and tails too? Though, I am not that sure with clerics now having a grenade as a consumable...

[narrow snow]

Clerics have specifically the holy hand grenade trait now passively

[vernal hedge]

clerics better get an holy grenade to purge the game of the heretical furries

[fresh wyvern]

No bard will have the nades. Clerics get the .50 cal derringers

[wooden meadow]

I sounds more like Worms than DaD, but honestly a holy grenade would be awesome.

[narrow snow]

Rogue has lost both its legs to balance it. Ranger can now put traps anywhere on the map from safety with his new phantasmal trapper form

[strong grotto]

Exterminatus is to go full speed ahead, the second the update launches.

[vernal hedge]

For the Empire!

[narrow snow]

Spanish inquisition emote when?

[vernal hedge]

when you don't expect it.... I'll see myself out

[narrow snow]

Merely a flesh wound emote would be cool too. This game could low-key have some fire cosmetics

[strong grotto]

Bards are, actually, to receive some latex suites for some reason... Also I've heard the lute will be changed into a giant gold member, if you know what I mean...

[narrow snow]

I'm not big for microtransactions but if you let's us skin our oil lanterns as holy hand grenades you can take my money

[vernal hedge]

yah, in path of exile im a portal collector, here i can see mself become a campfire collector

[narrow snow]

My Bard has a stash full of green or higher lanterns LMAO

Not completely but like 60%

[strong grotto]

Only green lanterns are needed, any other is heresy.

[vernal hedge]

ah another man of culture I see, rapier+high rarity lantern meta
fuck torches

[wooden meadow]

that should be worth a dozen keys in a few hours

[vernal hedge]

still angy about my friend grabbibg my gear yesterday and vendoring my purple lantern, shits hard to come by

[narrow snow]

Wym

[wooden meadow]

just joking about lanterns getting more popular and keys losing in value by the hour

[narrow snow]

Brooo I took one to hell with me and died with it ;-; my poor buddy is probably all cold and alone now

[strong grotto]

One wise man once said: "If you tricked someone, than it isn't you who is smart and clever, it is just you were trusted more than you ever deserved".

[narrow snow]

I hope to see puzzle rooms and more traps tbh.

[vernal hedge]

yes this. give us magical door, puzzles, cooler traps.
fuck give us a room that as randomized wave based challenge and you defeat 5 waves in order to move past

[narrow snow]

Game is a bit fast atm this kind of stuff could help slow it down maybe? That and map size. In norms you run into someone after 90 seconds at most

[vernal hedge]

motherfckrs tought I insisted he took it because it was a 35g sellable, has if i'd tell you to take that over all attribute boots 💀
he sure got me good

[narrow snow]

Waves would be fun forsure though

[strong grotto]

LOL

[vernal hedge]

at least i still have blue lanter but that's a difference of ONE move speed... that's a lot 🙂

[narrow snow]

Double jump& Rupture+ a bunch of lanterns = a fun time

Slowly kill people with lanterns is always fun. But I might go give them out like candies on Halloween tonight

[crystal quail]

bro ima say it now the Greed is Good trading is drastically superior

[gentle rapids]

Then join their discord

[crystal quail]

Idk what it would mean for the whole "trade makes the game too tryhardy" issue to have a faster system, but it would really improve the interaction to have some sorta tradehouse/buy/sell system

[narrow snow]

I can only hope the rest of the game will catch up and create competition. A little fire under IM's butt is what it needs tbh.

[crystal quail]

@gentle rapids no, this is the suggestion-discussion. If you dont wanna discuss this suggestion you dont have to tho, kiddo.

[gentle rapids]

What? How is a straight rip off “good competition” ironmace has all the right to get them taken down if they weren’t already fighting a massive lawsuit with a soulless corporation

[crystal quail]

like yeah it sucks to have to compete with shovelware but its all competition, PuBG was nothing more than a copy done faster. I bet ironmace would have a significant struggle, theres more than enough variance in the game to play into the "nah same genre diff idea" argument.

[gentle rapids]

That’s actually wild when they have ripped assets

[crystal quail]

brother, its called Unreal Marketplace. They bought the same assets. Infact i think they had to prove all of that in a big file comparison list made public during this nexon stuff cause they tried to make up the same lie

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/profile/Sychov+Brothers?count=20&sortBy=effectiveDate&sortDir=DESC&start=0 for example. (and there is nothing wrong with building games like this btw, its why we were able to get Dark and Darker in the first place!)

I v much hope this game gets back on steam and gets the attention it deserves, but I also hope it catches up with trading and socialization mechanics other extract games have gotten to.

[lunar escarp]

Just play whatever you think is better, so tired of seeing people talk about GiG, it's a Chinese soulless game it'll be gone in a month

[narrow snow]

Pretty sure IM is using store assets in wich they don't have exclusive rights. No? Is that the exact argument they used on Nexon? Was that they dont own the assets the vendor does?

[gentle rapids]

They do but not all is purchased

[royal cipher]

LoL GiG looks like one of those fake mobile game ADs 😄

[narrow snow]

Dosent mean they have exclusive rights bud. Do you know anything about copyright

[gentle rapids]

Wut

[narrow snow]

There are different kinds of deals on assets and stock images etc. Depending on the content it could be. Rights managed. Rights free. Or Rights limited I believe. Each has a different application to what's considered copyright infringement and what isn't.

[vernal hedge]

you mean.... the guy that basically created the battle royale genre has we know made a copy faster?

[lunar escarp]

Fr crazy to hear people are enjoying that slop

[crystal quail]

lmao nah, minecraft was doing it years before then bud. Dont diss hunger games like that

[narrow snow]

I'm well read in copyright rules as I'm a graphic designer so I'm not trying to shit on you or anything. But IM dosent own any of the Rights to the assets used in both games I'm pretty sure

[gentle rapids]

Than maybe they don’t

[narrow snow]

Otherwise Itd be a slam dunk cease and desist

[vernal hedge]

did you ever play arma 2? cuz its sounds like you didnt xD

[gentle rapids]

They couldn’t do that anyway with nexon riding their ass

[narrow snow]

Not really, it's pretty easy to cease and desist BLATENT copyright infringement. But it has to be exactly that, blatant.

[crystal quail]

Ive seen zero proof or evidence they stole something proprietary. Everything there is storebought too. DaD has some custom weapon models and player outfits, but the Greed is using different stuff. Stop guessing about how this stuff works. They aboslutley could make a statement with nexon riding their ass (you dont have to chase a case to say something). Its okay to dislike the game, but theres no reason to cope. Fr0sty i played plenty of arma 2, fun times same with dayz and h1z1.

Also none of this has anything to do with the suggestion of improving the trade system or game at all, lets stay on track. Trade and player quality of life is hella lacking and its more evident the moment any other dev takes a swing at it

[gentle rapids]

Well I haven’t played greed is shitty, but ironmace would have nothing to stand on if it’s just purchased assets

[narrow snow]

Kind of the point. IM dosent have very much ground to stop these guys because they aren't stealing any IM property

[gentle rapids]

Yeah then in that case it sucks but nothing to be done

[narrow snow]

Someone should try to make the format a bit more action combat though would be cooler than having 3 Jank games. I like DaDs jank but a bit more polished dodge and block system in thsi type of setting might be really fun

[vernal hedge]

then minecraft wasn't doing it years before, minecraft hunger games and arma battle royale came both shortly after the Hunger Games movies, not years before
and from the arma mod came then PUBG and h1z1, then followed by, unfortunately, fortnite

[royal cipher]

Isn`t DaD just more polished Alpha at this point ? I think Block, Parry, Dodge rework will come at some point.

[narrow snow]

Say what you will about fortnite but we do have to give it credit as much as I dislike it

[crystal quail]

all timing aside, the genre has many clones and in the end who ever does it best gets it in the end. If this genre as a whole has any staying power, greed wont jsut disappear if DaD doesn't keep up (And get back on steam lmao)

[narrow snow]

Dodge won't be a proper mechanic I'm pretty sure the jankier slower combat is what they are going for kind of like that other game that's failing me rn but it's also a first person medieval game usually has 2 teams and big scale battles

[royal cipher]

I mean dodge as we have dodge atm, but with better hitbox, same as blocking. Blocking is the worst atm.

[strong grotto]

This whole conversation is somewhat useless... In the end of the day, even if they copy 100% of the base game, it will be all decided by how development teams will handle both games in future, how and what problems they will solve and what features add. Thus, no matter how you like or dislike one company or the other, the better game will win eventually.

[narrow snow]

We don't have dodge. Rogues have backflip. But the same thing can be achieved by turning your character around and running away. It gives no I frames

Backflip is just a terrible not very useful skill. It's fun and can be done in the air. But it's not good or useful tbh.

[vernal hedge]

oh I wasn't involved in the rest of the discussion just was commenting on the br side.
but the genre im pretty sure it's here to stay, first tarkov then we have decent-ish Marauders, and now moving into the fantasy extraction game Dad GiG and there one more that going into testing tomorrow too, cant recall the name
And in general ive been seeing hardcore game having a new bull run after people where tired of all the low skill instant gratification games of recent years, which is one of the reasons I think Elden Ring did so well

[crystal quail]

yeah backflip needs to be faster, idk if i want I-frames persay (kinda strong right?) but it should be a far more effective dodge tool than turning around

[royal cipher]

Again, you clearly dont understand what i mean, by dodge i mean dodging attacks by moving in the right position so enemy attack wont hit you, by dodge i don`t mean skill dodge lol.

[narrow snow]

Then your the one who dosent get what I MEAN that's not a dodge that's the ACTION of a player "dodging" but definitely not a dodge in the traditional gaming sense at all. And you literally said "dodge rework will come at some point" implying a dodge function. Don't try to change what you were saying pal.

[crystal quail]

i mean thats not really a dodge in the mechanic sense, there should be abilities to allow for it, esp on classes like rogues or ifghers (fighter with a combat roll would be so fun lol)

[narrow snow]

Anyone who has played any kind of action combat game knows what a dodge is. The elevator dosent go to the top floor with you though ig.

[keen scaffold]

Make curse of pain like zap and let warlocks compete with wizards as spell casters. It's stupid that a wizard can use zap from across the room and warlocks have to be 10 feet from the target for it to land. Also magic protection needs to scale with gear quality!!! Why do you think wizards on the high end are the number 1 class? Because your rubysilver leggings have just as much magic protection as gray ones.

[narrow snow]

Well be getting more lock stuff Tuesday forsure dw

[crystal quail]

nah warlock shouldnt get more range, them having to play at mid level makes sense for the whole lifesteal and BOC stuff

[royal cipher]

Ah, you are on of those must be right rtards 😄 i meant dodge as in mount and blades, Dodge, Dodging the attack does not matter how you put it, if you want to be smart, you should go out sometimes and get sense of life my boy, i said Dodge as to dodge trajectory of the attack, not Dodge chance or Dodge as to roll or do a Flip, don`t put words in my mouth and then act like some rtarded smartass 😄 also i can see you on these forums everytime i am online, you either get online exactly when i do or you are some fat fktard without any life, just saying 😄

[narrow snow]

Have fun with the ban sir

[crystal quail]

yeah but thats silly, from here on out use Dodge correctly. Also theres no need to call folks mean names just because you misunderstood a word.

[royal cipher]

Could not care less mate, just get a grip :]

[narrow snow]

@smoky yoke @blazing vapor @cosmic girder

[narrow snow]

You're the one who needs to get a grip you just threw a tantrum bc you don't know what people mean in gaming when they say they think a dodge MECHANIC would be cool

[keen scaffold]

Then why make them spellcasters at all if you need to be in melee range to be effective? So Wizard get to have infinite range with fireballs and zap with no drop and hitscan but the one other caster class can't?

[narrow snow]

Keep typing tantrum baby

[royal cipher]

And i told you how i mean it, i said better hit box, if u are rtarded and don`t understand what i mean by that, not my problem salty boy 😄

[narrow snow]

You're proving me right by continuing to engage ♡ go off king...

[crystal quail]

it just neerds to be mid range, so say like throwing knife range.

[royal cipher]

U just wrote 5 messages before i could even write one 😄 chill out salty one

[balmy coyote]

Can we get a friends list 😦

[narrow snow]

You're just using the wrong term man. I'm the one who said I think a dodge mechanic would be cool and you were all like "hurr durr we have one hurr durr" but no we do NOT have a dodge MECHANIC at all

[royal cipher]

Boo ho ho, admin protect this little boy is getting hurt 😄

[narrow snow]

Salty one but you're the one using insults about my intelligence. Ur malding so hard Lil bro

[royal cipher]

You clearly played bit too much WoW or other MMO so you comparing dodge as to dodge chance or Evade. I clearly stated that by dodge i mean dodging as in games like Mount and Blade, but i understand you are clearly too stupid to get it :]

[narrow snow]

You clearly never played a souls like

[summer bolt]

Clearly, this is neither, what are ya both smoking

[narrow snow]

Nothing I just said if one of the competitors had a proper dodge mechanic and went more into a souls like type dodge it'd be cool and this guy decided to meat ride me saying we already have a dodge

[royal cipher]

Comparing dark and darker to sould like... damn how stupid are you

[summer bolt]

A dodge mechanic would be cool tho, like we have parry

[narrow snow]

IKR THATS WHAT IM SAYING LOL this guy is meat riding me so hard for no reason.

[summer bolt]

I could even imagine it being a rogue ability, like evasion or sth

[narrow snow]

Never compared them. Talking about the dodge mechanic bro. Wich you have never used a dodge in an arpg in your life. You named like one game but everyone who has ACTUALLY PLAYED an arpg other than that one game knows what a dodge is and knows what I was getting at

Keep typing though I'm in your head rent free now bye baby boy stay mad

[vernal hedge]

ive played a bunch of mount and blade yet can't understand what dodging he means

[royal cipher]

Little guy looking for appreciation from the others, that so cute :] while i never said Dodge Mechanic, i clearly stated that by Dodge i mean dodging the trajectory of the attack by simply moving as it is now, but with better hitbox, but you keep your point kiddo

[narrow snow]

Ily man

[summer bolt]

he means outranging and strafing

[narrow snow]

No man clearly he means dodging and isn't using the incorrect term at all. LUL everyone disagrees with you batariel

[summer bolt]

I really like how passionate people are about this game

[vernal hedge]

yah was reading his explanation now, would never call that in mount and blade dodging, its just good movement

[blazing trout]

“Suggestion discussion”, so how bout you phonies fight elsewhere?

[summer bolt]

Well we dont have a flame eachother channel yet

[narrow snow]

It wasn't a fight till this guy hopped on my meat for suggesting a dodge

[blazing trout]

Get a tavern you 2

[narrow snow]

I just thought it would be cool to have a dodge lol idc about this randy.

[blazing trout]

https://tenor.com/view/street-strikers-hop-on-street-strikers-street-strikers-striker-gif-19912699

[narrow snow]

And nobody agrees with them either so it's like they are the town idiot who just won't stop arguing at this point

[blazing trout]

Dodge in what way? Dark souls? The rogue has a “dodge” already

[vernal hedge]

yah but if you have used it you'll know its actually a handicap, you don't use it has its animation locking you in place

[narrow snow]

Right but it's functionally the same as turning around and running.

[blazing trout]

Correct, just walk side way or even backwards is better

[narrow snow]

Yeep whereas I'm talking about something closer to souls

[royal cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-disco-cool-moves-dance-floor-gif-15633436

[blazing trout]

I think dodges like dark souls belong to 3rd person games

[royal cipher]

you could dive under the swing in mount and blades the same way as you can do it in dark and darker, by either looking up or down, if you call it good moves then ok lol

[narrow snow]

But Mr wanted to try and correct me and say we have a dodge already when we don't. Then when we call him out he starts talking about mount and blade trying to hold his position firm instead of admitting he was wrong and mispoke

[vernal hedge]

I think if they reworked tumbling and instead of it's fancy animation just made it a quick backstep it could actually get used for kitting, specially with rapier

[blazing trout]

Calroar, every message you type, is throwing oil on the fire, let it go

[narrow snow]

That's not a DODGE mechanic bro that's just manipulating your model silly

[blazing trout]

Great idea!

[calm dove]

Can lock picks just fail/break? It was a late pop up hit the red zone perfectly by pressing spacebar. Heard a bad sound and no loot.

[narrow snow]

Nope. I'm too stubborn. But you sir are absolutely correct

[vernal hedge]

lmfao

[blazing trout]

In dark souls, you can also manipulate your character to dodge, dodging is dodging, hell its even better in dark souls

[narrow snow]

Manipulating character model to make hit box smaller dosent = DODGE they are distinct things

[blazing trout]

Nah, dodging is dodging, not really discussable

If the attack dont hit me because of my actions, i surely dodged it

[vernal hedge]

Man I love when the #suggestion-discussion just devolves into a sematincs argument

[royal cipher]

Lol i did not try and correct you, not my problem you stupid enough not to understand you dumbo :] you can call it anything, evading/dodging and i clearly stated dodge as to dodge attack trajectory, are you that dumb or yes ? you clearly should go out more often you fkin nerdo lol, irl it is called to dodge something, not fucking good moves lol, i did not say anything about dodge mechanic, as i said before, you put your words in my mouth and then tried to be some fkin smartass 😄 pathetic little nerd, you must be one of those guys who`s playing this game 18h a day lol

[narrow snow]

I said dodge MECHANIC I even implied it in the context. But ypu jump into a conversation you weren't even apart of to meat ride me

[real trellis]

If I said half the shit this guy is saying my ass would be grass by now lol

[blazing trout]

Get a tavern, both of you. French kiss each other but gtfo man 😂

[narrow snow]

Like I wasn't even talking to you initially but you really wanted my meat baby boi

[royal cipher]

And i did not lol, as i said, putting words in someone`s mouth then acting all smartass, you must be loved by everyone irl 😄

[blazing trout]

Nah, ur asking for attention at this point there are like 100 voice channels in this discord, go have some male to male intercourse with each other over there instead

[narrow snow]

Humiliation kink much? Keep meat riding me babe.

[blazing trout]

https://tenor.com/view/brokeback-mountain-ennis-and-jack-cowboys-jake-gyllenhaal-heath-ledger-gif-7583567

[royal cipher]

V1rgin against Chad Baby Boy, ill take that. i think your life Humiliated you enough, you know the best.

[real trellis]

You're both embarassing please take this somewhere else

[royal cipher]

You put your words in my mouth as yo daddy put his d1k in yours ? 😄

[blazing trout]

Thought about multishot ISO quickshot? Its like a shotgun up close, managed to kill a couple rogues and fighters up close

[narrow snow]

Imagine jumping into a conversation about dodge mechanics that I started casually trying to correct me by saying we do have one even though we don't have a dodge mechanic I point out what you're saying and what im saying aren't the same and you try to argue with me that they are. When all I said was I think a dodge MECHANIC would b cool

[blazing trout]

Thought about multishot ISO quickshot? Its like a shotgun up close, managed to kill a couple rogues and fighters up close

[narrow snow]

You weren't even involved in the conversation and had a failed attempt to correct t what i said. Go back and read babe.

[royal cipher]

Imagine that i started talking about dodge first and then this v1rgin started correcting me about dodge mechanic lol 😄

[blazing trout]

Thought about multishot ISO quickshot? Its like a shotgun up close, managed to kill a couple rogues and fighters up close

[narrow snow]

?????? HUH bro you jumped into my convo with someone else not the other way round

[vernal hedge]

where are wardens when we need them... all they seem to be able to do is put rogue chat on slow mode lul

[blazing trout]

Thought about multishot ISO quickshot? Its like a shotgun up close, managed to kill a couple rogues and fighters up close

Thought about multishot ISO quickshot? Its like a shotgun up close, managed to kill a couple rogues and fighters up close

[narrow snow]

We were literally talking about greed is good etc and then I said it would be cool if one of the other versions of dungeon crawler extractions had a dodge mechanic and then you went " We already do hurr durr"

[vernal hedge]

multishot is pretty under rated since all the rangers are addicted to whatever is in those rations

[narrow snow]

Tru

[inland bobcat]

wtf is even happening...

[blazing trout]

I think so as well, its fairly strong, also vs pve when needed

[narrow snow]

No clue. Bratiel won't hop off though

[blazing trout]

But i must say i replaced quickshot ISO field ration

[royal cipher]

Bruh, we were clearly told a few times to sht the fk up, but your buthurt as just keeps coming lol, salty little boy.

[vernal hedge]

yah but even earlier was arguing with a ranger has I was trying to see what would be some cool ranger nerfs leaving them with more viable options, dude goes of on how all the ranger skills and perks are useless... like are you even playing the same ranger? trueshot penetrating shot was 2 skills he called useless but probably never even touched a crossbow

[blazing trout]

Ranger longbow and headshot are wayyyy to strong > ranger main speaking

[stable prism]

pair those with a windlass and you go around 1 shotting ppl

[narrow snow]

Hop off bro it's that simple just hop off my meat and enjoy your day

[blazing trout]

Can you please just leave calroar? For the second time: you are throwing oil on a fire that was about to stop burning

[royal cipher]

You got no meat buddy, what are u even talking about fkin v1rgin. childhood issues with your daddy`s meat ?

[narrow snow]

Crossies are so underrated imo

[narrow snow]

Hop off the meat bro go enjoy your day boomer clearly have nothing better to do or what. Get some breakfast bro

[blazing trout]

I believe as a ranger, they could slightly buff his sword dmg, and nerf his bow dmg

[vernal hedge]

exactly @stable prism
and speaking perks they have great choice, headshot, long range 5% dmg, draw speed, move speed while drawn, spear, seeing footsteps, and im probably forgetting 1 or other decent ones

[inland bobcat]

Just some more toxic people in the S/D channel

[royal cipher]

Little attention seeker lol, chill out man, we got it, you the always right guy and i repeat, we`ve been told to sht the fk up a few times already, salty boy

[narrow snow]

Hop off boomer

[stable prism]

yeah they have plenty good perks for sure, gives you like 3 build options

[royal cipher]

Oh clearly the Gen Z attitude, nothing better to say ? pathetic.

[blazing trout]

I think rogue and ranger have the best perk related to their class

[narrow snow]

Hop off boomer

[stable prism]

guys cmon just stop answering each other what is this

[vernal hedge]

attention seeking about what, we had been have discussions today since before you showed up brother

[royal cipher]

Ahh, repeating yourself 5th time already, keep going bot.

[narrow snow]

Hop off my meat boomer.

[royal cipher]

Just proving my point that this guy need to go out sometimes haha. lost connection with reality.

[narrow snow]

It's all good he didn't take his dementia meds today, he gets like this sometimes

[royal cipher]

Nah, still waiting for that ban you promised me, little V1rgin :] and waiting for when you go offline and talk to your parents about your nerd problems.

[dense sand]

just take it to DMs or block eachother FFS

[inland bobcat]

How about this idea for gear balance and a bit of money sink
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495464/gear-rebalance-refinement-degradation

[narrow snow]

Hop. Off. Boomer. I live alone. OF actually pays for my apartment but go off boomer.

[blazing trout]

Nice both those babies blocked and reported, so ranger nerfs guys, i agree but do think his shortsword dmg may be buffed > 6 -7 headshots for a skelly to die

[vernal hedge]

Mom, can we get a suggestion-discussion?
Son, we arlready have suggestion-discussion at home
Suggestion discussion at home:

[royal cipher]

Get life kiddo 😄 you ain`t hurting anyone by repeating yourself lol, but you seem pretty salty and butthurt already

[narrow snow]

Hop off boomer

[inland bobcat]

best suggestion in the past few hours god dam!

[bleak dagger]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487729/see-equipment-of-teammates-in-the-lobby

[narrow snow]

Valid. But I'm too stubborn to stop trolling this boomer. Was fine before he showed up

[royal cipher]

Keep coming kiddo, atleast you won`t be writing your sh1tty suggestions in here 😄

[vernal hedge]

nor anyone for that matter 💀

[narrow snow]

Hop off bro. Why are you still typing back to me? Just hop off 45 yo

[royal cipher]

Gen Z calling trollin by repeating yourself 😄 you know it is sign of autism 😄 sorry man, i didnt know you have it :[ i wont be making fun of you anymore

[blazing trout]

Frosty you joining them or we talking ranger here 😁?

[narrow snow]

It's weird that you're still riding me this hard man just hop off fr

[royal cipher]

Your vocabulary is quite limited kiddo 😄

[narrow snow]

Hop off boomer. Stop typing. Mid life crisis dad gamer.

[royal cipher]

I think i will start bullying you my boy, same way kids were bullying you in school 😄

[narrow snow]

You're so mad.

[vernal hedge]

I was being led astray, back to ranger
I think one nerf we are seeing for sure is regarding the slow effect that bows have since theres a perk thats meant to do it when shooting at the legs already, and that nerf on itself would already add choice to rangers

[royal cipher]

Will come here everyday just to make you this salty 😄 we will have so much fun

[narrow snow]

You're so mad dude.

[strong grotto]

I feel personally attacked...

[red urchin]

@hidden sierra Pls help this chat

[vernal hedge]

LOOOOL

[granite plinth]

i swear you were in here the other day picking arguments and displaying your vast knowledge of the english language ?

[narrow snow]

Don't atleast you don't type back to me for a eternity over nothing

[blazing trout]

100% agree that should be a perk

[inland bobcat]

i think for the slow on arrows need droped some and just make it so their perk does not require them to hit their legs

[blazing trout]

Also this yes, cause legshots are stupid

[narrow snow]

You wanna hop on my meat too now? Just go get some breakfast bro better use of your time. lessthanthree

[royal cipher]

You are good representation of Internet warrior nowadays my salty little friend 😄

[granite plinth]

im flattered but no, imma have to decline your micro offer

[narrow snow]

Malding. lessthanthree

[royal cipher]

Can you come up with anything new ? you are too boring, you must be quite stoopid irl lol

[blazing trout]

Yo cloip, any possible way you could ignore those 2?

[vernal hedge]

"Crippling shot: Hitting a target's leg decreases their Move Speed Bonus by -15% for 2 seconds, in addition to the usual on-hit slowdown effect.
@inland bobcat that would probably be a good one has there being no slow at all I don't think would be fare has rangers would now just get rushed by a rage barb

[narrow snow]

All I wanted was a fucking dodge mechanic in an extraction dungeon crawler lol instead I got a sperg boomer raging at me

[dense sand]

make a tumble rogue sweet bb boi

[granite plinth]

@blazing trout yeah dude, i like winding cal up sometimes. hes a frequent bully.

i do enjoy poking him with a stick.

but yeah ill unclutter the chat

[royal cipher]

You are stupid if you think that this game needs Dodge Mechanic lol but yeh you are stupid i forgot 😄

[narrow snow]

Tumble isn't good that's the whole point but batariel decided to start something out of nothing all bc I wanted a proper dodge

[muted nova]

add a traitor role for playing other DAD copies

[strong grotto]

Rangers rock. I'd prefer we have more options for melee though...

[blazing trout]

I would say make a ranger more strategic rather then oneshotting, like the nerf they did on rogue. Rogue is jokester, a jester and stabber. Ranger should be trapping more and kiting with low dmg slowed shots, and a fast “fighter” with a short swort

[dense sand]

smol bb boi just make a tumble smokebomb rogue and enjoy yourself, no reason to be ashamed

[inland bobcat]

That is funny and i agree

[blazing trout]

Thanks brother man💪🏼🔥

[royal cipher]

He is not a bully, he is just a piss irl, internet warrior, i see this guy in here everytime i check the chat lol, he doesn`t sleep, on PC 20h daily probably.

[dense sand]

theres no reason to be embarassed that you like tumbling around naked as a rogue

[vernal hedge]

what other melee options could they have? the only thing I could think off would be giving them spear normally but giving the spear expert perk for the 10 attack power

[narrow snow]

Never said THIS GAME we were talking about other dungeon crawler extractions and I said it'd be cool if they didn't just copy the Janky combat of this game and went for a more action combat dodge like souls. If you read the context of then conversation you wpuldve known that

Literally was talking with frosty just before that about greed is good etc

[royal cipher]

Sht up Karen, you are not impressing anyone, stop being even more embarassing please :]

[dense sand]

they should add bullet time too, so I can dodge arrows like Neo

[narrow snow]

How you're this lost is beyond me. You just have to be right ig. You care so much about this why? It's kind of sad you're a middle aged man being trolled this hard

[granite plinth]

sips tea

[narrow snow]

I meaann you already can by crouching and looking up bullet time would just make it cooler

[royal cipher]

I am just making fun of you, you 1diot lol, i like bullying salty little nerds

[red urchin]

[inland bobcat]

Suggestion- move on from the back and forth arguing, im getting tired of seeing the red flag

[granite plinth]

good suggestion

[narrow snow]

Lol why are you so pressed big dawg

[vernal hedge]

<@&988703997378584596> sorry for the tag but please help us retake #suggestion-discussion

[dense sand]

suggestion allow you to tumble while spray caltrops 180 degrees

[royal cipher]

But you keep crying my boy. I like it when kids like you cry for no reason

[granite plinth]

anyway, did you gents see this greed is good bullshit ?

[narrow snow]

You just replied to a message that wasn't even directed at you. You mad mad

[dense sand]

project crawl also a cloney grossness, all you play either are heretics and should be purged

[royal cipher]

Looks like fake mobile game AD to me.

[granite plinth]

legit @royal cipher , and havent heard of that one yet pez. lemme go google

[vernal hedge]

yah pretty bad(or early developed), it's have some cool features and qol id like to see in DAD and maybe we can see them now sooner than later has a competitor has it

[royal cipher]

I just replied to you, kiddo, that`s all what matters 😄

[strong grotto]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493924/melee-and-ranged-battle-system-improvement
In this suggestion there is a way to improve archery and make it actually a skill in the game. If they implement that - it will solve the problem of the tripshot burst.

[dense sand]

theres even more knock offs coming out, those are just the closest 2

[narrow snow]

We were talking about greed is good before batariel decided to sperg out

[granite plinth]

yes, two things i enjoyed was the slightly faster combat and the actual zone timer thats clear @vernal hedge
the rest of it was pretty bad

[royal cipher]

Boo hoo, little boy looking for some appreciation again 😄 stop explaining yourself, be a man for god`s sake.

[dense sand]

I swear Greed is Good is a NEXON game, the dev team making it "The Fool's Studio" has no website no info anywhere on them and they have no socials

[red urchin]

[dense sand]

feel like the dev team name is a jab at IM

[narrow snow]

Hop off boomerif you keep this up you'll have a heart attack and I can't say I'd feel bad for you

[merry jewel]

Please keep discussions civil and friendly everyone 🙂
If toxic discourse is continued, it will result in prolonged mutes.

Thanks 🙂

[inland bobcat]

Adding a My Suggestion tab to the feature upvote page so you can check on the posts you have made and are easier to find to reshare here

[narrow snow]

Batariel literally using slurs in here btw

[crystal quail]

rogues should have trap options too, I wanna oil slick + flame someone

[dense sand]

lol zoomer snitchin

[strong grotto]

Why we can't equip axes? At least the hand axe. Axe is the definition of the forester weapon. Why we can't use falchions? How is it possible for us not to use throwing axes? Why can't have a shield? Besides, if we look at the Dungeons and Dragons system, that was a base for DaD's class system, rangers are able to use all simple and martial weapons just like fighters are, but unable to wield heavy armor.

[olive oasis]

Tbh all biases aside Greed is Good is good for a free game and some mechanics in it are nice

[red urchin]

[narrow snow]

Damn straight brother. If you can't act right you don't deserve to act

[granite plinth]

the audio is horrendous @olive oasis

[dense sand]

you both be actin dumb

[olive oasis]

Mana is fun and every class is strong in its own way but yes bad audio and buggy zone

[crystal quail]

the trade system is great, I really hope they take notes. Everything else I could do without, altho I can understand the enjoyment of energy/mana, and I don't dislike it in tandem with cool downs

[dense sand]

Heresy, Greed is dogpoop

[narrow snow]

Difference is I'm being self aware about it and have admitted I'm doing it purely out of stubborness this guys thinks he is objectively in the right

[cerulean phoenix]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/473408/inventory-drag-overreplaceswap#comment556130
Just wanted to bring some awareness to this idea. Please upvote!

[olive oasis]

I like the concept of prioritizing spam or damage but not both ex: ice mage can dish lots of cc or they can do burst dot

[dense sand]

you both think you're funny and right, it's delusional ❤️

[narrow snow]

I don't think I'm funny. But I think if I'm making him mad then that's what's funny to me.

[dense sand]

tumblers better than pumpers?

[vernal hedge]

thank you

[dense sand]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDehKUMh7es

rogue tumblers dont be ashamed

[narrow snow]

Puzzle rooms would be sick! This game has lots of room for it too could have puzzle rooms with traps and could have one where you need to walk a certain path on the floor or the floor opens up or sumn

Could have wall puzzles or torch based puzzles where turning off and on the right combo of torches opens a door or sumn or triggers waves of mobs to come from somewhere

[inland bobcat]

i think the base stats of the gear should or could be the same or more varied between the common non enchanted items and the green, blue ect.

[dense sand]

thats gonna be in the patch tomorrow

[merry jewel]

FBI, We gottem 🙂

[narrow snow]

We do indeed gottem

[narrow snow]

Wbu sir what do you think about puzzle rooms?

[dense sand]

if not tomorrow than the next upcoming patch, devs said theyw ant to raise minimum damage roll on low rarity weapons and bring down max damage roll numbers on higher rarity weaps

[narrow snow]

Could be cool right?

[inland bobcat]

i mean like the only difference between them is the extra stats you get from the "enchanted" ones
let there be a chance for a common white item to have better base stats than the green and blue ones

[strong grotto]

That is good. The gap needs to be shorter. But not only on weapons, armor too... Have they said anything about armor?

[dense sand]

no their max damage increases

[inland bobcat]

that does sound like a cool idea, maybe also having in the team based lobbies having to hit some of the testing targets at once to open a room

[narrow snow]

Oooh didn't even think of target dummies but you're so right

[merry jewel]

Umm, Im a Runescape player and know my fair share of puzzle rooms, I dont think it would be a bad idea 🙂 Im no game developer though 😅

[inland bobcat]

thats nice if that is what they plan to do for the next part of the testing

[dense sand]

[granite plinth]

@merry jewel its all ones and zeros, cant be that hard...

[strong grotto]

LMAO

[dense sand]

pretty sure binary isnt how games are coded

[narrow snow]

It's a joke

[granite plinth]

:>

[dense sand]

[merry jewel]

I just dont know how it would fit in the game >.>

[strong grotto]

TFW you need to tell someone obvious joke was a joke...

[dense sand]

i feel like tumble and smoke bomb should be combined

[inland bobcat]

oo another idea for a puzzel would be some sort of scale where you would need to input some treasure items like gems on a offering table or scale to open a door

[narrow snow]

Don't want to be locked into an animation for smoke bomb. Please don't make rogue any worse that it is

[granite plinth]

@inland bobcat would need a found in raid status on the items though, otherwise people would farm that shit. i really like that idea though

[dense sand]

they should make stealth allow you to tumble while invis, tumble is the new meta, tumble def best ability

[narrow snow]

Tumble rn is just terrible and forcing a tumble during smoke bomb would be really really bad imo. Would need to tumble omnidirectionally with no movement stop in between

[granite plinth]

should be able to offer souls of the dead aswell @inland bobcat

[strong grotto]

And to make a dinner and tug your bed, lol?

[narrow snow]

Omnidirectionally tumble with no half second of stoppage before using it would make it atleast bearable to use

[dense sand]

this guy gets it

[narrow snow]

Tumble has potential but rn it's just so.... meh

[dense sand]

you should be able to throw all your throwing knives while tumbling, and at the end the smokebomb goes off but instead of smoke you fire off rainbow colored confetti

[crystal quail]

i really tried to make tumble work, if you time it with rapier animation it somethimes saves your skin cause it can cancle but usually im still getting hit on the feet lol

[dense sand]

wizards should be able to turn chests into Mimics

[crystal quail]

it should just go twice as fast

[inland bobcat]

it would be something that could be farmed and stored but maybe balanced by the quantity or needs a specific gem that is randomly rolled, hard to keep looting when your inventory is already filled with gems and would make you a loot piñata. Just like how people already try to go after players that take out the troll in GC

[inland bobcat]

make a mimic by placing a mimic tongue in a empty chest and closing the chest

[narrow snow]

Yee, maybe like limbs should maybe get I frames during it but only limbs?

[crystal quail]

i could be down for that, still lets rangers get hits in if they can shoot a money shot

[dense sand]

add small chance for there to be a treasure goblin in the dungeons

[inland bobcat]

jingle jingle jingle

[granite plinth]

all i really want is more map variety, there should be solo, duo and trio versions of each existing map imo.

that and un fuck rouges.. and ill be happy

[vernal hedge]

At that point I think it falls a bit onto class balance and their rock paper scissor approach to balance.
1 handers I think would mostly be fine for ranger but when you get to falchion I disagreed has I see it has the strongest one hander and ranger identity lies with keeping distance(why spear is the best ranger weapon imo) but giving them falchion would be a lot of melee power.
In the aspect of shield it’s the same thing, it would give them so much power, it would basically get to the point that if you aren’t wearing plate in your fighter, just play a leather ranger.
And I think we will still see changes regarding this when we get the skill tree, which I hope give you option to specialize your class in interesting ways

[rotund violet]

**Are you tired of EMPTY coin purses in your stash? **
💸 After buying potions, bandages, trading etc there are so many empty coin purses left in the stash 💸

👇 The solution, make them sellable to the Treasurer again for 1-3 gold coins! Vote 👇

📢 https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494870/make-empty-coin-purses-sellable 📢

[inland bobcat]

THE GOBLIN KING!

[dense sand]

give rogues a disarm ability, when they use it on a target their weapon goes to their inventory lol

[narrow snow]

Thing about ranger is crossie longbow combo is so good that melee isn't worth it if you got a decent crossie and lb imo

[dense sand]

man I'm on fire with these suggestions this morning IF I DO SAY SO MYSELF

[narrow snow]

Would be cool a wandering boss with a pack of body guards and he wanders in that middle room instead of a bunch of skeletons

[inland bobcat]

or just drops to the floor and they can pick it up

[dense sand]

naw u pickpocket after disarming

then you tumble away

[inland bobcat]

would love to see a disarm and then the person just punches the rogue and they fall over

[narrow snow]

Honestly would b a bit strong should just be like a silence but for attacks ( it has a proper name for that type of cc but I'm just blanking atm)

[dense sand]

tumble meta incoming, you heard it here first

also can we have a tag to name and shame any content creators playing Greed is Good or any other DaD clones

@signal lake you should be ashamed of yourself

[inland bobcat]

being able to aim the tumble would be nice like you hold the key and a direction wheel pops or something, allowing them to move through a player as well

[narrow snow]

Disarmed is the name of the cc go figure.. If you guys ever played smite Belonna whip has a disarm that stops people from attacking for a short period of time

[narrow snow]

Yeah just something to make it a bit less jank

[crystal quail]

silence is nice but its just not worth one of two slots cause you need a damage option and a stealth/mobility option.

[narrow snow]

Right but imagine disarm. Silence but for attacks.
Might be op might be decent but not too op.

[crystal quail]

that would def be op lol idk how youd beat getting in free trades like that

[dense sand]

the thing I miss most about the long hide timer, is talking smack to people while invisible

[narrow snow]

Make it last for like .5s

[crystal quail]

just cancles a single swing

[narrow snow]

Yee 1 swing is all a rogue needs tbh would be difference between life and death as a rogue

[inland bobcat]

and silence is something you usualy start with, i could see it working as first hit then its on cooldown like the warlocks dark reflection with a bit of a longer cooldown

[crystal valley]

what about an active parry skill that bounces a swing like a block does

[inland bobcat]

was about to say that

[narrow snow]

While I'd like to see that I remember someone saying on stream IM isn't trying to put too much parry into the game when asked about it

[crystal valley]

i mean as an alternative to canceling a swing, would not feel like as much bs as just canceling one, and the animations are already there

[narrow snow]

Could still happen but I think it's unlikely we will see parry as an ability and not a weapon function

[strong grotto]

Disagree on that, I can't accept that rock paper scissor approach either, to be honest. Every class should have his weakness and strong points, sure, but to artificially create them - that's stupid. Even if rangers were able to use shields and falchions, they will never be as strong in melee as that same fighter or barbarian, since all their perks are about range power and scouting. It will only give some fighting chance against those melee oriented classes. A CHANCE only, because of low armor, but still. Especially, considering how butthurt many people are about traps and, I fear, their imminent nerf or turning them into charge based skill, rangers will not be able to hold people at bay, thus they will NEED a stronger melee options.

[dense sand]

yeah footwork is a key element to this game, so dodge or parry abilities will kind of take away from the skill of fighting

[narrow snow]

Yeah it seems IM care a lot about spacing and pacing

[crystal valley]

as a rogue only skill of course

[narrow snow]

Rogue should only get one active skill. Surrender, and rogue should have their legs removed tbh

[crystal valley]

true, their active skills should all become emotes so they can have them all at once

[narrow snow]

Yep rogue skills are just getting to try the emotes out for free before you decide wich one to buy on your other toons

[glass saffron]

2 games in a row. a fighter with a cleric following him around in goblin caves. same 2. fun times. not to mention the fighter had all +3 items. lulz

[crystal valley]

but rogue can pickpocket emotes from players and use them in that run. the rogue loses them on death but the other player loses them permanently and has to by then again

[glass saffron]

wipe cannot come fast enough...

[narrow snow]

Yooooo hear me out a dunce hat unique item for rogue -5 to all +5 to damage received

[blazing trout]

I would personally not like it, BUT i do agree with a change. How about a adding a slight random recoil to the arrow the further it travels ( like bullets in fps) so there is always a slight change to miss when shooting across the room, ISO extra dmg on the longbow, the longbow would have a better recoil on distance, and survival bow could have an arrow drop like crossbow does, this will create 3 actuall different bows for playstyles

[inland bobcat]

whitelist/blacklist utility item auto equipping
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495510/whitelistblacklist-utility-slot-items

[inland bobcat]

but increases luck and can not be unequipped in the dungeon, add a little bell as well

[glacial sphinx]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495512/ice-bolt-should-remain-stuck-in-the-target-briefly

[narrow snow]

Lol just hearing a little bell as the rogues naked grippers run around the dungeon

[vivid coral]

-Gambling statistics: Possibility to change a chosen statistic of an object for a random statistic at gold cost, each roll costs more gold. It would give more role to the merchants, more utility to the gold and the possibility to trade with more valuable items. Motive: to give an example..and I am a cleric xD...As there is a possibility that you get ''spell capacity'' in a barbarian axe, and this is useless for him...give him the possibility to try to change the statistic for gold and let luck have the last word (like in diablo, for example).

You will only be able to change a chosen statistic by a random one and it will cost more and more expensive.

Vote if u like ---> ''Change of items stats'' is the title of the post on the official page
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487234/change-of-items-stats

[weary wing]

Or in the floor

[ripe turtle]

Goblin Berserkers, holding shortswords and hand axes in both hands. You hit them to low health, they let loose flurry of attacks that potentially kills a player if get caught by the goblin attacks. Thoughts?

[earnest remnant]

Ye absolutely good idea to make most annoying mob type in gc to another lvl

Some are really on copiumn

[crystal quail]

thats not what copium means goofy ah

[strong grotto]

Not sure about what kind of recoil you talking about, since bows don't have any, lol. Like the most important thing is to able to draw a bowstring for a needed distance (usually it is to your ear) and lose it when the draw is at its most. That is why you shouldn't able to have arrows be loaded and prepared for the unlimited time like we all sick of seeing on TV and in games, lol.

[strong grotto]

Maybe to the HR caves? Though, the game will surely add something to the variety of enemies eventually.

[hasty bridge]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495554/only-allow-hr-lobby-extracted-gear-to-be-tradeable-tag-all-normal-queue-found-ge

What if only gear found and extracted from HR was able to be sold in Trade and all other gear found in normals INCLUDING off of players, crafted, or bought from vendors was tagged as Untradeable, forcing that gear to be used by the player themselves or brought into lobby to give to a teammate?

[strong grotto]

I guess you are trying to prevent geared "chads of the dungeon" to stomp on noobs, since they won't be able to trade anything found in normals, but you simultaneously created a problem, where those normal, under geared players can't now trade their finds to earn to themselves some gold. It can only work if you raise the item price from selling unwanted gear to vendors. Then again, if you do that - "chads" will still raid normals for quick and easy cash from those sales.

[dense sand]

this is going to hurt lesser geared, casual players even more

[hasty bridge]

I see this improving the experience for lesser geared casual players especially when hitting 15+ normal lobbies

[blazing trout]

so 3 barbarians walk in to the bar..
1 barb tell the other; AAAA
Barb 2: aaa?
barb 3: AAAAAH

[grave nebula]

followed by a “we chill, we chill?” voip

[blazing trout]

ahahhahaha yess my man XD

[grave nebula]

scream first ask questions later

[blazing trout]

knock knock
who's there?
Barbarian
Barba.. AAAAAH slams door