suggestion-discussion

[inland bobcat]

the issue was people with the throwing axe with and aditional +15 damage and 5 damage per step

[lone crescent]

Achilles nerf? Fine.
Axe specialization nerf? Sure.
The other nerfs are dumb for me

And we need all the power removed from Achilles to be redistributed on other skills

[gentle rapids]

Uh… we don’t need all that power anywhere, it was a nuke

[lone crescent]

I mean most of Barb skills are just meme

They nerfed everything that was meta before without giving anything back

[inland bobcat]

yeah i seen a video joking about some of the skills

[pine osprey]

Suggestion for how to balance rogue in a way that isnt so shitty to play against as one shot meta. Upboat if you agree 🙂 https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494867/balancing-rogue

[barren plinth]

Barb and maybe cleric are the only classes where I've found use for any kind of build. Even barbs health drain ability that no one uses is nice in the caves when I'm out of heals.

[inland bobcat]

like the idea of 5 being a disengage tool simular to their back tumble thing they got

[pine osprey]

I havent run the tumble skill too much honestly, it feels kind of too slow to me to effectively disengage with. I think being able to more effectively disengage without such a bad MS penalty would be super cool tho

[inland bobcat]

and then hoping you dont bump into objects jumping back

[pine osprey]

yeah exactly

[barren plinth]

Tumble is best for redirecting a jump. Like to throw off a rangers aim or something. Or you can negate the double jump slow by turning around and tumble right after

[inland bobcat]

how about for barb adding some movement speed to more of their skills so they dont feel so slow all the time. do got to say they do have a perk for not having a chest slot equipt that technicaly does make them a little faster

interesting idea.. barb perk that gives them a small boost to movement speed when taking damage

[lone crescent]

What I'd like to have is a perk to remove some of weapon's slowdown

[inland bobcat]

funny interaction with a warlocks power of sacrifice

[lone crescent]

It could be used to compensate for the tunic -15, like giving a +15 movement speed when using two hander

[inland bobcat]

sounds like a good swap for the 2 hander perk

[rotund violet]

**Are you tired of EMPTY coin purses in your stash? **
💸 After buying potions, bandages, trading etc there are so many empty coin purses left in the stash 💸

👇 The solution, make them sellable to the Treasurer again for 1-3 gold coins! Vote 👇

📢 https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494870/make-empty-coin-purses-sellable 📢

[inland bobcat]

will add to that with the option for bigger coin purses

[real trellis]

I posted a very similar suggestion a bit ago: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494710/my-take-on-a-rangerbow-nerf-that-wont-leave-them-feeling-dumpstered

[inland bobcat]

good points in there as well!

[rotund violet]

Afaik they've been talking about eventually getting some kind of containers for the stash like a chest or whatever to hold more items, effectively taking up less space. You can also convert your money into golden keys if you have too much, unless it's close to wipe and they become worthless again. I too would like bigger coin purses or the introduction of "candies" again.

However, it would not solve my issue of having to drop 10+ empty coin purses in-game every other game because I can't fill them up faster than I spend gold. This is especially true if you most often leave with GEAR that you sell, and very little treasures. This way I get EVEN MORE gold purses that gets emptied by consumables and taking up half of my damn stash.

[small furnace]

Looks good, unfortunately you put "nerf multishot" in there. I don't think we should be nerfing skills that are going entirely unused at the moment.

Would be like saying: We wanna nerf cleric so let's nerf locust swarm.

[inland bobcat]

maybe the addition of things like coin boxes that take up 2 slots but can hold up to 150 gold, and a gold chest that takes up 4 slots but can hold 400.

for trading i think there should be a spot to just input gold like the fill from stash at the merchants

[real trellis]

The only reason multishot goes unused is because the average brainless ranger main doesn't know the critical information so they keep the breadsticks

[small furnace]

I tried it, it's a decent panic option if someone is running you down but it's inferior to quickshot in almost every way. The damage on it is not the damage of 5 arrows btw.

[rotund violet]

People are sleeping on multishot, it's extremely useful. I can get 3+ arrows into a single enemy at close range, even more sometimes or hit multiple enemies in a fight. I can also use it to get 5 arrows back instantly on my longbow if I cancel the actual skill. It's extremely valuable.

[real trellis]

The damage on it amounts to 350% of the damage of an arrow and considering ranger can easily 2-3shot most classes with a decent longbow, that's enough

[real trellis]

Well I did include an end to the magic arrow refill in my suggestion but yeah as it is now it's handy af

[small furnace]

The damage distribution is 50 75 100 75 50.

Those '50s' even if you are shooting at close range will often be hitting limbs, which will result in it doing less damage than quickshot, on top of the fact if you aim for the head the most you can get into them is 2 (because the hide is not wide enough to get 3 inside of it even at close range) quickshot is better because you have the potential to land 3 headshots, which is MUCH more damage than 5 bodyshots, even though as I said it will usually be 3 bodyshots and 2 limb shots if the person is close enough to get hit by all.

[real trellis]

If you get even one arrow into someone who is charging at you and then you pull out the multishot as they try to chesthug you, you win 10 times out of 12

[inland bobcat]

thats if all arrows hit and its out of 5 arrows. i do agree that is alot of up front burst damage

[real trellis]

all you need is the middle arrow and the two closest arrows, that's 250% by itself

[rotund violet]

Yes, this is why you use BOTH quickshot and multishot. This is the way

[scarlet temple]

Add vitamins and drugs and shit I want a comprehensive physical body experience to improve my lil guy

[real trellis]

Yeah, exactly. If you quickshot someone as they approach you WILL get a hit, and then you multishot them while they're at like 2/3 or 3/4ths health and you just win

[small furnace]

I agree, if you can afford to bring in a pharmacy with you every run yeah. The rations are just kinda... REALLY good for healing mid fight.

[rotund violet]

If you fire multishot at point blank, you get all 5 arrows in your target. Instakilling enemies, I do this sometimes instead of swapping to spear if I am being chased. Saved me many many times.

[real trellis]

It's great for chunking mummies and zombies

[rotund violet]

Ofc I bring meds. Like any other class, then again I often play with a cleric.

[inland bobcat]

multishot is sounding like blow of corruption but there is more of a suprise behind it

[small furnace]

Guys, you're missing the point. Something having a decent use case doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. If it's underused targeting it with a nerf is just plain stupid. For that reason I can't upvote the suggestion.

[real trellis]

I already told you why it's underused, and that's because field rations SEEM too good to pass up even though multishot is very strong. I also suggested nerfing those. If field rations are nerfed then multishot will see more use... You do NOT want a meta where current multishot + current quickshot becomes the go-to skill setup for rangers, trust me

[small furnace]

I don't believe in pre-emptively nerfing something before it becomes powerful. If it turns out to be too strong after they nerf others then sure, but this is just a plain stupid way of doing it.

[real trellis]

It ALREADY IS POWERFUL YOU NUTTER

[small furnace]

I don't think that every ranger is just playing the game wrong, including the top leaderboard HR rangers. They aren't using it for a reason.

[real trellis]

You just don't know it because you haven't been chunked from 80% health by it yet

[inland bobcat]

might just be the bow that is too strong

[small furnace]

I literally have a clip I posted in ranger chat of me one shotting someone with it, yes I know it has a use case. Yes I know it's strong, I'm still saying don't nerf before it becomes the meta to 'pre emptively nerf' I am a ranger main you chud.

[real trellis]

oh that explains it you don't want it nerfed BECAUSE you know it's good typical ranger

[rotund violet]

I honestly believe Multishot + Quickshot is stronger than any other combo, even if you don't have a cleric in your team. If you need field rations, you've already effed up somehow, let's say you get into several big teamfights, eventually you will run out of your field rations and have an entire ability completely useless, where Multishot will continue to be useful the entire game. Field rations suck tbh

[small furnace]

I agreed with everything else in your suggestion. I just don't agree with nerfing an underused ability and that every pro player is 'stupid' for not using it.

[lone crescent]

Multishot reloads the bow and that's why it's strong

[real trellis]

Pro players don't use it because if the ranger is ever in melee range in high-tier gear fights then something is already terribly wrong

Fighters with huge pdr or barbs with decent pdr and huge health do counter multishot pretty well so of course it doesn't see use there

[small furnace]

If that's your belief then sure, but I don't believe in nerfing an underused ability. We shouldn't pre-emptively nerf things on the belief that something is going to become the meta. That's just a stupid way of doing things.

[lone crescent]

Are good rangers supposed to be immortal?

[real trellis]

Alright well I sure hope field ration doesn't get touched because if rangers lose any ration utility and figure out that multishot is basically a pocket nuke at point blank it's going to get 900% more annoying to kill rangers

[rotund violet]

You just keep saying the same thing all over again, ofc it needs a nerf. It's strong af.

[lone crescent]

Quickshot and Multishot should not reload your bow ez

[small furnace]

Not everything 'strong' has to be nerfed. You guys are being weird, strong stuff is allowed to be in the game, just not overpowered stuff.

I agree with Khanohn, that's a fine nerf.

[lone crescent]

And Field Ration should slow you down while eating

[real trellis]

it does

[lone crescent]

No

[inland bobcat]

i say start with the bow damage, see how that is and adjust further after that

[small furnace]

I have never noticed a slowdown and it's not mentioned on the wiki page where they tell you all info about skills.

[inland bobcat]

i think it is simular to the speed you move when drinking a potion or using a bandage

[small furnace]

There is no slowdown for drinking pots, but holding them does have a movespeed decrease.

If there were a slowdown for rations I think it would be mentioned somewhere on the wiki. Wiki shows unlisted information for skills.

[lone crescent]

Everyone who ever played Ranger or ever tried to chase one knows that there is no slowdown

[real trellis]

I could have sworn it was a minor slowdown

[inland bobcat]

might need to yell at the ranger class discussion for that

[lone crescent]

I'm 100% sure on this one, there is no slowdown

[real trellis]

wack

[small furnace]

Definitely doesn't feel like it, the amount of times I've been getting chased, ate a ration to refill my HP bar so I could tank a hit and quickshot someone chasing me is quite high.

[real trellis]

well you can tell how long it's been since I used field rations on ranger then LOL

[rotund violet]

Unfortunately not, there should be one however. It also shouldn't heal as much.

IMO the heal should be significantly lower, like a LOT, however you should be able to consume all bread without CD, perhaps to a total of what 1 bread does now. And you should be able to get them back at a campfire.

[inland bobcat]

might just be the feeling of being locked in the animation

[lone crescent]

-30 slowdown at least

[real trellis]

I don't really get why ranger needs to have an instant heal at all

Fighter's the only other class with a good self heal and that's over time

[lone crescent]

Even if the Ranger will keep his heal it shouldn't be usable when you are getting chased

[small furnace]

Fits with the other part of the class, survivalist. Hence why they have high resourcefulness as their main stat.

[rotund violet]

I guess you forgot clerics and warlocks exist

[real trellis]

the devs keep talking about 'slowing down healing' but they have never touched the beef jerky lmfao

[lone crescent]

Warlock heal will be nerfed for sure

[small furnace]

To be fair as someone mentioned if they wanted to slow down healing they'd have to nerf warlock and cleric before anything else. Those heals are immense and for warlock they're literally infinite.

[real trellis]

I meant a good self heal as a skill rather than something to do with spells because spells are a whole different deal

[inland bobcat]

maybe adjust the field ration to fit more in flavor of the description of it saying that you "forage food" and maybe tie it into resting

[real trellis]

Do not even mention barb's "self heal" skill because it is literal dogshit

[small furnace]

Nobody was going to, it's unusable.

[dark zodiac]

This game have serious probleme with ranged classes / move speed. (Ranger way too overpower since 1 its ranger and do as much dmg as melee - 2 has better run speed (even same run speed feel bad imo) - 3 can slow in legs...). In fact armor is total useless since you can never catch up (im talking about solo play). Same with mage and other its not feeling fighting its just a running simulator.

[real trellis]

I'd like to get my hands on whoever thought that crap was acceptable

[dark zodiac]

In other games any melee have catch up mechanics. And when they dont have one they run faster, not slower.

[inland bobcat]

still early access bby

[real trellis]

Let's put an extremely short timer on a buff that heals you on hit, on the class that swings the slowest!!!! I'm so smart!!!!!

[small furnace]

There are dozens of skills in the game that are completely unusable trash. I honestly believe we should start buffing a ton of underused skills just to see where the meta ends up. Would be cool to have a variety of skills we can choose from instead of just 2-3 skills for each class.

[real trellis]

If it wasn't 1/raid it would have a niche use at least but God Damn

alright it's beddybye time. If I remember when I wake up I will spitball some improvements for barb's self heal

[inland bobcat]

i think the some of the perks should eventually appear in the skill tree they have later on

[small furnace]

Yeah that's true, I do wonder how the skill tree will affect balance.

[inland bobcat]

oh its gona be hell

[rotund violet]

**Are you tired of EMPTY coin purses in your stash? **
💸 After buying potions, bandages, trading etc there are so many empty coin purses left in the stash 💸

👇 The solution, make them sellable to the Treasurer again for 1-3 gold coins! Vote 👇

📢 https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494870/make-empty-coin-purses-sellable 📢

[inland bobcat]

does sound interesting. maybe have it be random so each match has a different feel.

[cursive kayak]

true ranger is the last class that should have self healing they should get punished the most for taking damage

[inland bobcat]

what if some of the mobs killed also started to emit dark swarm over time

[mystic yoke]

Rangers having heals is probably to mimic the Dungeons and Dragons class counterpart, where they get a small selection of weak support spells tied to nature. Like a paladin but for druid.

[inland bobcat]

when the druid comes out it would be interesting if the ranger could get access to a few of their spells or similar spells

[mystic yoke]

Agreed! I would love to see a spell memory pick for rangers, give them like a small self heal instead of snacks and maybe an animal charm spell.

[inland bobcat]

instead of the snacks let them have good berry, creating a small bush that would have a few glowing berries that can be picked for some healing

[mystic yoke]

I also feel like their snacks should heal less, maybe 15 like the cleric minor heal, and they should be able to use it on friends

oh yeah that's a great idea, spawn 5 berries that heal for 5 each but you have to spend time eating them all

[celest pagoda]

GIVE CLERIC PAVISE

[inland bobcat]

yep takes an action to consume and would not be against them giving some sort of buff as well or the ability to use them when resting for a better benefit

[mystic yoke]

A lot of people complain about ranger but honestly they feel fine, I've only ever been killed by really smart ones that played their traps and positioning well. Which I can't be mad about

[inland bobcat]

my take on cleric and armor is that the heavy armor and maybe shields should be locked behind a perk similar to the rangers spear and fighters weapon mastery perks. Naming it Holy Knight sounds fitting enough

[inland bobcat]

i know my friend that still gets stomped ocasionaly on their ranger but that is just due to unfortunate positions or people kitted out

[fleet storm]

Hey, im from germany and wanted to buy the game, i do not have a credit card and when i try to do it via online-banking, it asks me to put the login credentials to my online banking, which is weird, does anybody know or have an idea how else i could buy it ?

[mystic yoke]

does your bank have a debit card you can use instead?

[fleet storm]

it has a banking card basically, which is different and not a credit card. but the xsolla payment panel doesnt give me the option to pay via the available card that i have

[mystic yoke]

No idea then, asking for bank login info is super sus and I would not do that if I were you. Maybe you could buy a gift credit card at a store and use that?

[inland bobcat]

i also suggest going to another chat for assistance like maybe the support #discord-help, #q-and-a for help

[ripe turtle]

Alright since the Bard got nerfs once again (especially for recovery), I have made this new Bard song suggestion. Please leave a vote!

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490509/hippocratic-salvation-bards-new-song-suggestion

[jaunty pivot]

Please add a way to transfer items between characters. it would be really nice to not have to rely on friends being on to get kits from one character to the other 🙂

[compact epoch]

i think ironmace should sue the creators of "Greed is Good"

[inland bobcat]

especialy due to them capitalizing on them not being able to be on steam

[compact epoch]

im actually watching some game play right now and ... wow its like a wish dot com version lmao..... honestly how is it so similar

[inland bobcat]

surprised steam let it on the platform

[mystic yoke]

Steam doesn't give a fuck, it's not surprising at all

[midnight timber]

So I think that there is a lot of balance missing between classes but they will be worked on. What I think is bad for the game at the core is the Trading Post. Make the opt into being a trade its on group of players, and let those of us that just want to play with what we loot never have to deal with the traders that spend a bunch of time shopping for specific stat builds.

[red urchin]

remove the circle, otherwise you're 🤏

[jolly reef]

lmfao i just looked it up that is just PATHETIC

[somber yew]

atleast Greed is good has tabs to put more loot so you don't just play tetris for a few hours a night! take some notes from them PLZ... and the market place is AMAZING instead of just sitting in trade chat for hours a night

[slim vessel]

nah bro. That would be way too broken Barb is already really healthy and tanky there's no way that would help balance that.

If you've played real D&D then you know it's kinda like the rage mechanic that barbarians have to give them an advantage on the first couple seconds of combat

[covert lake]

can we please make it so if you try to trade and dont have enough gold, the game just says "not enough gold to make trade".....would save everyone so much time

[untold badge]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494935/druid-shapeshift-idea

Think this would be great for the druid, please take a look I put alot of time into it. I'm sure numbers can be tweaked just consider it from the perspective of will it be fun to play.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494935/druid-shapeshift-idea

Druid Shapeshift Idea https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494935/druid-shapeshift-idea

[muted nova]

thats dumb, now we cant access that one spot, and going around it may take forever or impossible

[cobalt valley]

this person has never played a druid before

look at the comments on it

[untold badge]

I mean it's a suggestion to try and help the developers have some ideas. No i havent played dnd but i have played druid in other games. But you cant have a 4 legged animal as a form unfortunately it would be unbalanced due to hitbox alone given the current state of combat

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494944/druid-shapeshift-idea

here i did some tweaking given your suggestions and maybe this will be better, give it a look thanks

[cobalt valley]

these are unironically 10x better

[untold badge]

So would u mind upvoting it haha

[distant gate]

barbarian def needs a buff

[old chasm]

If a button is hit to swap a weapon, that action should stack against other actions that are happening so that the weapon swaps once other actions are completed. Instead, the current system requires pressing the weapon swap button once other actions are completed which is both tedious and unnecessarily difficult to time

[cobalt valley]

ill think about it and get back to you

[glass grail]

Phantomize should get you out of traps, it doesn't make sense.

[mystic yoke]

I guess they're phantom bear traps

[glass grail]

Fr it feels like that

And you should be able to change weapons in Phantomize, feels a little bit busted compared to Hide and Invisibility

[mystic yoke]

Not changing weapons kind of makes sense, you can't do anything physical. But I agree it should absolutely get you out of a bear trap, which is... physical

[untold badge]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494944/druid-shapeshift-idea

[versed quiver]

There should be possible to report people who tries to cheat on trades,

[vocal cradle]

players under level 15 should have an option to queue for level 15+ mmr
im just leveling my warlock and i get absolutely no pvp because everyone is dying to mobs

[viral parcel]

remove ranger slow please

[void remnant]

stop making random changes game is dying and stop super nerfing classes when warlock and ranger has the been the most complained about classes. if only i was a fan of DnD i would know quests are not a thing

most least active saturday ive ever seen ever

[elfin ingot]

Lots of people are taking a break before wipe

[proven vortex]

Where I don't agree with all the changes, I appreciate that the changes are frequent. So if I'm not entirely pleased with something, I know it won't last.

The game has never been perfect, changes need to happen.

[solemn needle]

why play if there is a wipe in 3 days? also the lobbies are filled with giga CHADS

[abstract swallow]

it would also be a lot less 'dead' if people weren't split across 8 different queues in dozen regions
the game used to be active at all hours back when it was just Crypts+HR
hell, even Crypts+HR and GC still have fairly healthy queue times

[untold badge]

Hey guys take a look at this idea for druidhttps://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494944/druid-shapeshift-idea#comment555488

[young sluice]

PLEASE FIX ROUGE HIDE WHEN SOMEONE BUMPS YOU THEY SHOULD NOT GO OUT OF HIDE

[cerulean kestrel]

I usually defend Ranger but you kinda right about that doesn’t make too much sense

[celest pagoda]

Add Pot As Helmet

[ivory quartz]

It is now working as intended, it was a bug before.

[real trellis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495008/blood-exchange-needs-a-change

Whoever decided to add a 6-second on-hit effect with 1 charge to the class with the slowest swinging weapons is a real funny guy but let's stop the buffoonery and make Blood Exchange viable shall we

also going to re-shill my ranger/bow nerf suggestion https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494710/my-take-on-a-rangerbow-nerf-that-wont-leave-them-feeling-dumpstered

[abstract swallow]

nah, it makes plenty of sense since the beef jerky isn't letting them take damage without punishment, if that were the case it would just be a renewable heal-over-time instead of a hardlocked animation with limited charges
snacks reward the player for establishing map control, and let the very fragile Ranger trade attrition hits at range

[ivory quartz]

Are you on the dev team? becauseI am confident these are the exact heavyhanded over the top nerfs Ironmace are legitimately going to put out to kill the class. Honestly well done, I was talking to a bunch of rogues and barbs prior to their upcoming nerfs, and no one was ever able to put out a prediction this good.

[real trellis]

What ARE you talking about lmfao

[ivory quartz]

No point in upvoting your post because you fucking predicted the future. Every change you posted is coming tuesday guaranteed.

[real trellis]

Which post are you talking about

[ivory quartz]

your "my ranger/bow nerf suggestion" They are on point, this is exactly what Ironmace will do to "bring the class in line" on tuesday. I have never seen someone with such perdictive powers.

[abstract swallow]

nah, 90% of the nerfs are going to happen to longbow and default kit Ranger, because that's where most of the complaints are coming from
it's all little timmies running goblin caves seething that they're being shot to death when completely naked in a gimmick 1v1 gamemode

[real trellis]

Ok I kinda thought so but next time do you think you could reply to the right post lol? Also the nerfs I am suggesting in that post are a much lighter touch than most of the nerfs I've seen lately.

[ivory quartz]

You should expect much more than that my friend, Ironmace doesn't know the concept of subtlety.

[real trellis]

The bow damage nerfs only amount to a couple points of damage without lowering the lowest tier so as not to make base kit worse. Hitslow being stronger for a longbow than a literal ice magic spell is absurd and needed to be brought down. Magic arrow refilling is cheesy and dumb. Quickshot being full damage and applying hitslow makes it way too easy for rangers to 100%-0% classes in one go. Field Ration only loses 5 total healing. Spear prof was way too strong and no other class with a "unlock weapon" perk got a boost when using that weapon. And being able to hold a lane indefinitely with a perma-drawn bow is pure cancer and promotes behavior like puppyguarding more portals than you actually need just to keep other people from extracting, just because you can.

[abstract swallow]

nah, they know how to do things subtly, that's why they ninja nerfed longbow in the rarity update and carefully gutted traps over 4 seperate nerfs-and-reworks
but the Wizard backlash showed that they shouldn't bother with subtlety or open communication, they should just go absolutely overboard and then roll back the changes to what they wanted in the first place because the community will absolutely shit the bed otherwise

[real trellis]

Traps are still extremely deadly if the ranger is there to take advantage of them

[abstract swallow]

traps are a pale shadow of what they used to be, and at this point if you die in one it's your own fault
but people will always complain about them because it's THE most humiliating way to die short of being mob trained

[real trellis]

It was always your own fault if you died to a trap

[next pebble]

this entire game is balanced around giving ranger the easiest fucking time

[abstract swallow]

[real trellis]

Except in the case of traps being hidden under corpses of course

[abstract swallow]

facts
if a trap is intersecting an object or no longer grounded, it should revert to being an item

[next pebble]

im on my fighter complaining rn anyway. fuck that class

[abstract swallow]

bro just shoot him twice
he has like 90 HP

[next pebble]

❓ ❓

[real trellis]

84 isn't it?

[ivory quartz]

You know what class counters ranger?

[real trellis]

Ah no 78, that's like one good headshot with a decent longbow + perks

[next pebble]

if a ranger hits a round shield theyre not good, you should know not to start arguments with me we both know how the last one turned out rogue boy

[mystic yoke]

Why do people find rangers so threatening. Just put on some heavy armor and bring a crossbow

[ivory quartz]

Just wanted to remind you that you asked for this.

[next pebble]

20% dr does nothing when they have a quiver full of ice bolts and hit for two hander damage with a longbow

[mystic yoke]

20% Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those numbers

[next pebble]

ur not getting higher than that under level 15

[mystic yoke]

I pick up kits with up to 40% on naked drops pretty regularly

buy some cheap plate at the armorer, makes it even easier

[real trellis]

🎣

[abstract swallow]

"under level 15"
bro did not just self report like this

[inland bobcat]

seems like bad luck on rolls

[next pebble]

i have a lvl 15 fighter and i have one i reset every time i hit 15 you obsessed nerd

[teal fern]

region lock china - they keep buying the good items and turning around and trying to sell them for RMB

[short heath]

This is exactly why level based matchmaking doesn't work 🤣

[proven ember]

How would I put in an actual suggestion?

[short heath]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/

[granite plinth]

would like the option to shake my team mate like a new born baby

[short heath]

ALT+F4 followed by anger management.

[granite plinth]

anger management is for people who get caught

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490668/longbow-is-not-balanced#comment555506

[ripe turtle]

Alright since the Bard got nerfs once again (especially for recovery), I have made this new Bard song suggestion. Please leave a vote!

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490509/hippocratic-salvation-bards-new-song-suggestion

sigh Why can't we have d-and-d suggestions channel back...? I really don't understand.

[echo dome]

they arent even suggestions just people complaining

[obtuse lichen]

add downvote button please

[jagged flicker]

you're here

[ripe turtle]

not the same. with the channel, everything was easy and simple. now with the site I barely get anyone's attention compared to the d-and-d suggestion channel. now why would i bother myself posting to the suggestion site and spamming the link here, that is just stupid.

[echo dome]

maybe they can add some type of sub-ticket system into the specific channel when making a suggestion that prompts an upvote/downvote feature. I know of other discords like dayz modded servers using this for making suggestions.

[ripe turtle]

Yeah but I would like to know why Ironmace would decide to "remove" the d-and-d suggestion channel and replace with the suggestion site when that channel was the best way to send suggestions and allow users to either upvote or downvote with ease. Nothing complicated, people knew where to look, couple clicks away, done. I really don't understand this decision at all.

[echo dome]

i kinda get what your saying like rn just 2 people, one making a one point and one responding once all the suggesstions are off the screen and feel meaningless. would be nice to like click upvote/downvote and see the list rather than have this and then the website seperate. maybe turn this into a forum thread type thing for the suggestions?

[ripe turtle]

That's my point! Why make things complicated when there is a perfect system already there! 😦

[echo dome]

probably rogue mains doing it idk, gotta do something when youve been nerfed below the ground lmao

[untold badge]

Hey guys check this trending idea out! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494944/druid-shapeshift-idea#comment555488

[strong grotto]

That will kill ranger. It is, basically, the only option for him to keep people at bay, since the chances of ranger surviving the melee is close to zero, even with spear, giving how low his armor is.

[jagged flicker]

I don't upvote multi-choice suggestions, just pick a topic.

[echo dome]

most people only respond to get noticed anyway let it burn

[ripe turtle]

I really don't like the "World of Warcraft" approach here. I want this game to be Dungeons and Dragons themed game in its own way.

[strong grotto]

Mate, if devs would kill every class someone doesn't like losing to, then they ought to kill the game itself. I know the frustration of getting shot at from across the room, trust me on that, but it doesn't mean I want to kill rangers, lol. Like there are problems that needs to be fixed, like rogues being a prevalent class with their land mine playstyle are, which was fixed over night with a giant nerfhammer. But the traps are not on the list.

[ripe turtle]

About legacy items, are the "skill check" hunting traps still out there and not deleted during the first wipe?

[untold badge]

I see what you mean but I felt it hard to not suggest a core idea as a whole, I will keep that in mind for the future. @ripe turtle unfortunately I have little experience playing dnd although I did Some research on the Druid. Totally get what you mean tho just trying to see if other people enjoy that play style 🙂

[ripe turtle]

I'm confident there are many players in the community who have played and still playing WoW. For them, it's a nice system. I don't like this approach, because it makes the game less unique and more towards pleasing the majority, sacrificing the uniqueness DaD has to offer. Sometimes pleasing the crowd is not the way to go, but risking for a more dangerous approach.

[strong grotto]

What do you mean? You still need to pass skill check if you want to disarm them. But you don't need one if you stepped into it.

[ripe turtle]

Ooh! So only the skill check occurs when I try to disarm them without triggering them first! Gotcha!

[strong grotto]

Here's the little lesson to you about population. Quantity matters. Yes, it is not the best way to just follow the crowd and their demands, sure, sometimes you need to create a specific decision aimed at specific group of people. When you do so - you need to be sure that specific group of people is large enough to FUND that choice. Thus we will get to the concept of exclusivity. What I mean is - every group, in order to preserve its identity NEEDS TO BE EXCLUSIVE. If you have a band of drum musicians you can't call yourself a drum musicians if you add two violas in it, can't you? You will become a different group. Same here. Yes, you can't include EVERY possibility and every person's idea for the game, some people WILL LEAVE, if the game isn't made for them. But it doesn't mean you need to shrink the game for the smallest amount of players in it, you need to INCLUDE as many as you can while preserving the core idea, but EXCLUDE anyone that will change it to something else. So it is not about simply "pleasing the crowd". It is about pleasing YOUR crowd. Do you authoritative enough to speak as the voice of community? Maybe that will be exactly what game is needed. In fact, game being BASED at DnD rules doesn't mean it should be one.

[jagged flicker]

More detailed and direct suggestions are easier to get behind, and the ultimate goal of a suggestion should be change for the better.

[strong grotto]

Though, I'd say we still need to wait for the druid to go live before making any suggestions about the class, lol.

[strong grotto]

Consider upvoting this then, please.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493924/melee-and-ranged-battle-system-improvement

[jagged flicker]

It's still two separate suggestions, but I do agree with them both. A hold on melee is a fun concept. Decaying damaging for bow use is a different beast entirely.

[strong grotto]

If you agree with them both - upvote, please! I want to push this change for IMace to see...

[jagged flicker]

I wanna see weapon on weapon collision

[strong grotto]

Hmmmm... I guess it can be done with my system being implemented. It can be made into something like chamber locking in Mount & Blade. Like if you know the move pattern of your enemy's weapon and you know the timing of your weapon's wind up - you could, basically, parry the strike with your swing and make a counter.

[jagged flicker]

I mean like in general.

[strong grotto]

Current system can be described as "hold your attack button and W key to win". Even if you add the weapon collision in the equation it will be just a hurdle without any real improvement. Will only add some luck in it - which is bad in a game, that supposed to be a match of skill. So, without changing the core of the fighting in this game you can't add anything. That is why I've made my suggestion. For starters they could've at least add some collision to shields when you use the Shield Slam skill on fighter. Currently people can just hit you through it, lol. Which is real dumb, considering you smash your shield, supposedly solid object, in their face.

[toxic sierra]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490387/removetradingpost

[limber matrix]

What a non-sensical suggestion...

[strong grotto]

Ok. You ask for removal and say something about real cash being used. Which is a problem, sure. But how removal of trading should solve that and how the removal of it supposed to improve the game? Elaborate, please.

[limber matrix]

Speaking of trading post, I wrote this yesterday if anyone agrees: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494779/remove-useless-stats-low-tier-gear-feels-unsatisfying

[toxic sierra]

everytime i type i get it block for no reason so if u really wanna know my stand points and reasoning and wanna debate it ill be in vc shortly

[rigid musk]

I suggest to nerf clerics damage and buff rogue. rogue now is super weak he has no dmg and no utility and cleric has self buffs point click dmg abilities and armor pen on his weapons and buffed dmg makes no sense for a semi support class to have so much damage

[strong grotto]

Again. How it will help? Like good loot is SUPPOSED to be rare, that is what gives you the joy of finding or obtaining it. And also it supposed to provide with thrill of getting out of the run with it or to use it yourself. If you make all stats be the same - it will bring zero improvements. And if you see someone geared when you aren't - you can always take that gear yourself, if you can't do that alone, then voice chat is there for reason. You can simply talk to people in the dungeon and team against that pink and blue piñata, lol.

[toxic sierra]

In tavern table 3 gonna debate #removetradingpost

[strong grotto]

There are reasons. Probably because you mention R to M to T issue. Somehow that word is forbidden, lol. Just pick your words and it will be fine.

[toxic sierra]

Ahh ty however what i was getting at is the game doesnt have longevity between wipe it shouldnt take 10mins in trade channel to have a god set

[limber matrix]

Again? This is the first time you are replying to me.
Did you read my post? It feels like you didn't by the way you are writing.
I'm not even talking about geared people. I'm just talking about regular greens (and some blues), aka low tier gear. Most of it is trash, even if it has good stats. It's literally only beneficial for casual players, which nobody on the auction house is willing to offer at a frequent enough rate. I shouldn't need to wait forever for decent gear when I'm low level. That is only for people who are going for purples and up.

[toxic sierra]

It would make r to m to t had to be drop trading adding more risk to it witch means price goes up with makes ppl not wanna do it

[strong grotto]

In order to do so you need to obtain pretty sum of gold. Which is fine by me if you did it legally and should be punished by ban if you bought the gold. But that is the different problem. Trading post is a good feature and should stay. IMace should just do a better job at monitoring where the gold comes from.

[strong grotto]

I've read your suggestion and found it lacking in substance. It will change zero.

[toxic sierra]

It makes the game too eazy and takes away longevity of the wipe every item in the game can be farmed and pretty easily at that. I shouldnt spend 1 week on the game save up 10k then be able to buy a kit i should have to find god items in the dungeon

[limber matrix]

I don't disagree that it lacks substance, but I do think my suggested change would change quiet a lot for the majority of people who play this game. I'm welcome to hear better suggestions to tackle the low tier gear problem.

[strong grotto]

If you are able to quickly make a bank and buy yourself a place on top - that is the skill of a player. It should be celebrated. It is not that easy to do it in game, you know? Most people can't even get past a few hundreds in their stash, not even to mention sum worth enough to buy yourself a whole top set. So your suggestion not only aimed at a skillful players, which is bad in itself since you need to care about your core audience, but is also removing the ways for casual player base to earn anything of value, since they can't sell anything they happen to find in their run and at least get their "top set" a ride once or twice, before they lose it to others or to wipe.

[toxic sierra]

As the game is advertised as a hardcore experience i dont really think that matters u say u cant sell thing but u can then roll the dice with the goblin merch personally i think things like loot should be rng and left to the roll of the dice always

If u want purples and golds u fight boss if u wanna farm something there are specific moster to kill to farm said gear

Also in p2 we had no trading witch wasnt an issue at all

[harsh elk]

I sugest for the not midle storm change to be reverted spawning and having to run all game and nt having access to the midle part of the map is so un fun I never had any positive experience with this change

[strong grotto]

That's easy, actually. And I've said that many times before. The problem is not in the bad rolls on the gear, the problem lies in the gap between tiers of the gear. The gap itself should be either lowered or removed entirely. Like, here's the example: Arming sword. The lowest tier of it has damage 23~24. With the highest tier of it having 37~39. It is almost a double from the 23 to 39 value. All the while lowest tier having no enchantments, of course, but highest tier also boasting up to 5 enchantments. Which means - the higher you go, the less important enchantment is in general, but the base stat will still matter. Of course, the enchantment IS important when you aim towards specific build, but most of the time you just ditch your lower tier equipment for higher just because of that base value alone. The answer to that is to make tiers of weapon not to increase that base value, but just to add enchantments. So, back to our sword example, let it have like 25-30 damage at ALL TIERS, but add the number of enchantments when it goes up. With gray tier always having the 25 damage and the unique weapons to always have 30. That is much more manageable to balance and to play around, than your removal of enchantments.

[limber matrix]

I mean, yeah, your suggestion doesn't sound bad and might solve other issue in this game, probably only for weapons, but it doesn't really address what I brought up.

I'm talking about low tier gear here, so the target audience for this are people who don't care about purples at all. But this problem doesn't only affect casuals, hardcore players, especially if they go solo, have barely any incentives to waste time opening chests and corpses. And those people are supposed to be the main supplier of gear for lower people, which is not happening here. That is the issue I'm talking about, and not damage balancing on weapons for higher tier gear.

And in these cases enchantment on non weapon gear matters quiet a bit.

[vernal lotus]

I have a feeling that issue will be solved when quests eventually come out it’s EA right now they’re working on it all

[strong grotto]

Sword was just as example. In fact - armor is even worse than that. The gap between low tier in sheer armor value and high tier is double as well, now add to that increase of value of armor the more you stack it with only high numbers being useful for achieving that dreaded lobster fighter with 80% damage reduction... If short - removing that gap will also remove the possibility of people wearing armor of low tier wearing paper, while those in high tiers shrugging everything like it is a breeze.

[celest pagoda]

GIVE CLERIC MORE WEAPONS

[strong grotto]

THIS☝️

[limber matrix]

Haven't really noticed since I play the faster classes with less armor I guess. But whether armor gap is huge or not is besides the point anyway.

[spice hinge]

I see more swords, axes and daggers than any weapon cleric can use, maybe they should add a mace skeleton that exclusively drops mace type weapons

[real trellis]

I heard something about a 1h hammer type weapon in the works

[spice hinge]

Really? Thats wonderful, i wonder what attack patterns it would have and what its nightmare version can do

[strong grotto]

Ugh... Another one-handed mace... I'd wish we got something two-handed, like Lucerne hammer, for example. Or some great club. Like the problem is not even in the amount of weapons, but in fact that they are boring and generally suck. I doubt there is any possible way to effectively use two-handed hammer we have now, staff is a meme, and mace and morning star are just lame with same attack pattern. Give us some options! Some cool moves!

[civic oriole]

could set up a point system assigning gear points and if points total reaches a certain point they should be only allowed to high roller. I see tons of over geared squads wiping lobbies of basics.

[spice hinge]

A blacksmits hammer was discovered amongst upcoming weapons

[grizzled gull]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494727/class-representatives

[strong grotto]

Those people should just team up when they see one with such set. The problem of such cases isn't in the one's who have that gear, but in the stupidity of those who don't. If people would just be like: "Hey, that arsehole came in here to hunt us, so why can't we set aside our own PvP and smash that lobster piñata first, eh?". Instead - they avoid him as a plague, knock and weaken each other out with W-keying and swinging at the first sight, and letting them wipe them one by one. Stupidity... Sheer stupidity... I generally think, that people must be more cooperative in the runs. Like there should be only three reasons to fight someone: there is no more portals left, they've attacked you first and they've taken the boss you came in here to take yourself.

[strong grotto]

Bad idea. Such players usually go for min-max and meta strategies instead of just being at something. To balance the classes and game around those people, who, basically, exploit the game is stupid. Not even to mention, that those kind of players will be silent about most issues in order to keep their chosen class on top and to preserve the exploit and meta they use.

[real trellis]

Yeah I don't want a bunch of TTV-named gigasweats determining the balance of the game

[strong grotto]

Don't say... Those twitchers already have their ego stroked so high... Not even to mention, that their names already on the most of the leaderboards, the named weapons and stuff... I don't want them also deciding if my class should receive buff or nerf.

Besides, they already influence the game in many ways by sheer ability to play the game for hours daily to earn their living, and setting some trends and behavior standards. And I can't say I like the behavior they promote...

[muted nova]

I agree

[spice hinge]

Twitchers primarily get their stuff from handouts and abusing mechanics, id be surprised if these people would be any good if they didnt have all that stuff, they are the last people who the devs should be taking advice from

[muted nova]

well they were nobodies until recently with the influx of players

[spice hinge]

I strongly dislike them, they generally consider themselves better than anyone else while not acknowledging that their success depends on others, and if they do lose its because of "cheaters" and not being outskilled

[muted nova]

well yeah, they have little to no social interaction outside of their chat room. The only social interaction is between other bad company streamers

[spice hinge]

If anything, IM doesnt need player opinion, they themselves see where the issues lie and have so far made mostly good decisions.

[strong grotto]

Well, credit is where credit is due. They are better than most of players just because they are able to LIVE INSIDE that game without need to go for a shift in your office or plant to earn your living. More experience - better understanding of the game and better skill, just by sheer volume of them playing.

[muted nova]

idk the skill cap isn't that high

for the longest time it was, " me fighter be get buff me take no damage" Or " fire ball ignite dagger"

[strong grotto]

Every opinion matters. In fact, it is much easier for IMace and community at large to notice a problem when it is streamed online for thousands of people or made into video on YouTube. Like there was literally a video about rogues one-shotting streamer in FULL PLATE ARMOR with simple touch from the hide. And that was a literal one-shot, a one tap from the dagger. Few days later - rogues are not as strong anymore.

[spice hinge]

Yeah and average rogue player opinion now is somewhere around "revert everything now and give us a buff to boot"

[dense sand]

Yeah, why even do testing or Early Access at all, IM doesn't need any feedback. lol

[strong grotto]

It is high, actually. It is not only about core mechanics, it is about map knowledge, about your muscle memory, about simply knowing how exactly to block this or that from that or this, or if it even possible to block it. The core mechanics are easy to grasp, but the cap is in KNOWLEDGE. And when you play the game whole day every day - you get that knowledge engrained in you.

[spice hinge]

I meant player opinion from those considered the most popular, they should look at opinions from the average

[strong grotto]

A quote: "...and average rogue player opinion now is somewhere around "revert everything now and give us a buff to boot"".

Sometimes you need to ignore the average, lol.

[rotund violet]

**Are you tired of EMPTY coin purses in your stash? **
💸 After buying potions, bandages, trading etc there are so many empty coin purses left in the stash 💸

👇 The solution, make them sellable to the Treasurer again for 1-3 gold coins! Vote 👇

📢 https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494870/make-empty-coin-purses-sellable 📢

[broken vessel]

Just a random thoughts for a new class
BLACKSMITH
No leveling needed to get started and it would let new players get geared. It's for ppl who like trading and prepping their party. In dungeons, they carry an anvil and hammer so You can tweak one gear rolls, but it costs gold, silver, or new ores. Cost depends on gear rarity, Trashy stuff like greens needs copper, legendary stuff, silver, copper, and gems ect.
(new ores and the gems u sell and find u can mine ore or find pieces of it)
Reasons to play blacksmiths. Blacksmiths can upgrade junk gear. Dark grays would be the ones u could upgrade cus there are useless and no one uses them and they can Upgrade to white or green ect, but it'll cost more a lot of resources to attempt so Blacksmiths would make or break. Like the goblin merchants but u have a small minigame and the better u do the better the odds and it gets harder and harder for small chances at better till you fail and whatever is the outcome is the outcome.
About the class - they're not big damage dealers. They're tough and use maces and hammers. Fast moveing, tanky, okay damage.
Their perks are customizable. Need defense? No problem. Boost damage? Done. Resistance are hard capped at a lower number then a fighter so they can over gear but not become busted and unbalanced
And they would gear up parties. If they find gear that doesn't fit, like healing when you need damage, they sell it. Might sound off, but with tweaks, it could be a game-changer.

And if they goes with the idea of layered dungeons loot lost with be super high cus of deaths to pve and pvp cus of being in the dungeon for a long time so being able to have someone that could regear ur party after losing 10 runs in a row would be nice and later into wipes ppl can barely start if there new cus of ppl in full kits and ur bace kit would be hard to get a start

if u got any imput or just think its bad just say so wanna know what ppl think

and my thought isnt for the near future of the game but when the game gets into the stage of long runs and alot of balanceing stuff

[strong grotto]

Nice fantasy. Unreasonable though.

[broken vessel]

true was just thinking of an idea cus of the blacksmiths hammer so i thought of a class

thinking cus of like opeing a chest and seeing grey items and just getting no loot sometimes cus ur unlucky would give the reason to pick them up isnted of just wasteing them and seeing where it goes u know more of a gambleing class for the rush of hiting something good at the end of your night and see if hit good smt like that

i see alot of problems with the idea but just thinking of it and it could have changes but the idea is kind of there

[strong grotto]

There is a reason. You can sell it. Every little bit counts. You see, am not that good player, so I can't leave the run with backpack full of grandma's heirlooms. Besides, there are cases when you have a bad PvP from start and to continue will be only to get yourself killed and I extract early. Those useless junk items will buy me a potion or two, which is much better than nothing at all.

[broken vessel]

no i mean for ppl that play the class it self like ir playing with a party cus it wouldnt be the best solo i can see that but if u were playing with a team and ur looting and gearing ect grabing the small items like gems yea u can sell them for gold but u can also use the gems and relics u find and like small grey items like a dagger or a long sword u can gamble and if it dosent hit just get rid of it it would be a 10x diffrent playstyle from diffrent classes like ur team grabs relics while u grab gems items ect and would give a reason to shair loot batween your party so they can make gear for your party with the items and relics u ind in the dungeon

and as irom mace has sed there plan was for the main dungeons to have 3 layers so everyones invs would be full already be full and chances to die would be super high so alot more loot lost but with the class alot more loot into the pool for players

[strong grotto]

Then instead of creating a whole new class it is far better to just give some existing class, I'd say wizard, a skill that allows them once per run to upgrade one piece of equipment in their inventory up one tier. Simply call the skill "enchantment".

[broken vessel]

and i am no meaning forthe blacksmith to perfectly mind max every piece of gear cus 1 roll 1 chance type thing for the gambles

true but i was thinking cus of play divercity cus ya a wizard would be cool but but it would also be fun cus of the 3 classes they want to make already to have a pleathra of divercity so u dont see the same type of party 4 times in a row like bard claric fighter but u could have blacksmith wizard bard or something and it would give the roll for a tank class cus fighter is a figher but a tank is a tank and in fanticy stuff a balanced partys is a tank carry and a damage dealer for most party of 3 or a support damage dealer or tank
it would set the roll of a good front line and make the fighter a deacent tank but not a full tank

it gives divercity to more of the game
like druid is gonna me a support into tanky or a caster
monk is a squishy dmg dealer with heals or stuff like that
and there was 1 other classthey sed they were thinking about

[strong grotto]

They base their game around Dungeons and Dragons. It will be a paladin.

[broken vessel]

and ofc im not thinking in the next year i am thinking for into the long future into the game
and yea i get dungeons and dragons but artificer is in dnd so it would make sence for a crafting type class

[broken vessel]

also warlock or blood hunter

[strong grotto]

Even if they add and artificer it will be more of an enhancer of his equipment with perks with some limited number of spells based around enchantment of surrounding objects. It is not what you propose to be. And a blood hunter isn't an official class even, lol.

[broken vessel]

yea i get artificer is a class that is sometimes played and like i sed not in the near future after the game is more balanced ect ect just puting out the idea of a class that would be fun in party play after they more data on avrage deaths items gained items lost and balanceing stuff like that

[dense sand]

they said druid, paladin, sorcerer will be coming

[broken vessel]

yea i mean u would carry a anvil and hammer and ur spell bar isnt casting spells it would take a long tme to cast to enchant a item ect or in the tavern u can get acess to gambleing and all that stuff

ur spell bar would be like claric spell that dose dmg to mosnters or dose its own thing to ppls gear

[strong grotto]

So paladin is confirmed? NOICE!

[broken vessel]

ayeee paladin will be so fun

[strong grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/deus-vult-deus-vult-intensifies-sword-triggered-gif-15356993

[lean citrus]

Omg just remove the trap in front of the stairs in GC if there is no way around it, ffs

[real trellis]

You can jump it from the side or you can throw a torch on it then jump onto it just as the spikes retract

[lean citrus]

Thank you!

[broken vessel]

also another thought for the skill trees

for fighters like for longswords how there pattern is a poke ect ect insted would be a slash from above into a diffrent attack so weapons arent gonna get boaring and would give some divercity for figher attack style

for wizzy it would be modify spells like magic missle would be faster less dmg or less tota speed for more damage

claric would have lesser heal chain 2 party members but wont heal you anymore
(ur passive would still heal u)

and for warlock cus they sed u would be able to summon something u could change your skeleton type or change the weapon it carrys when u summon it

bard would have the option for combine songs into a less effect but have diffrent combo effect like all stats and phis power would be less all and less power but u get a effect new effect like encant ur teams weapon with more dmg but u get a debuff dependant

(everything would have a good upside but a bad downside to balance stuff)

i get how every fight would be unpredictable and would need ALOT ALOT of balanceing but something where u can modify the bace abiltitys of classes would add build divericty with a mix of diffrent stats and alot more thought into your builds and make some classes more on the support side or more on the offenceive side of the scale and stat scaleing like item equip speed would effect a super long song to make them pull ur hands out but u need to mee requiremnets of that stat to even cast the song to make useless stats sort of usefull in a way

also be a giant pain im the devs ass to make but still just a random idea

and for bard u would need to use 3 diffrent songs back to back to cast the special skill

[untold badge]

Hey give this idea a look! If it sounds like a fun play style give it an upvote!https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494944/druid-shapeshift-idea#comment555488

[broken vessel]

makes good sence for a druid but the hideing aspect seems like hell to play agenst cus u could stelth then exit form then kill them would think like a 5-10 sec invis and it would be your q or e and eatch form could be used 1 time per run or u put them on your q or e and u get 2 forms and can cast them like figher but would also have spell memory cus of druids are known as the primal magic casters and eatch form has 2 abiltys but u can hot swap batween them fast like if u fighing and ur cooldowns are up u can just inta swap to the other form like u stick with 1 for the start and u swap to another another for later on and the forms should be phisical then magic for the magic part of druid so u cant just stack 1 stat and shap shift to the close range form right after u cast all your spell

and you would probs need a casting time to go into a form
i like the idea tho just some imput 👍 also gave it a upvote cus it seems like what would happen

[untold badge]

Thanks appreciate the feedback I can see your point.

[broken vessel]

yea kinda thinking a wolf form that bleeds a bit and leeches but is super close range cus u need to punch them at super close range

and a bear type form that get a damage reduction and is like barb

and i like ur healing idea but i think it would heal the whole party like a claric but its like 1 hp er sec in a aura thats always on when u press the button and u have a damage aura that takes 1 hp per sec if u ever played league kina like sunfire or jak'sho

or u can fully customise the forms in your menue so u arent locked into 1 playstyle

like a magic tab and a beast tab for customiseation

[candid forge]

https://reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/Z3p0KNhimp

7 months ago, this Reddit man spoke the truth about this game's massive gear disparity problem. Here's hoping that it gets diminished on Tuesday.

[rotund violet]

**Are you tired of EMPTY coin purses in your stash? **
💸 After buying potions, bandages, trading etc there are so many empty coin purses left in the stash 💸

👇 The solution, make them sellable to the Treasurer again for 1-3 gold coins! Vote 👇

📢 https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494870/make-empty-coin-purses-sellable 📢

[lucid charm]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494480/make-rogue-the-only-class-that-can-flank-back-lines
Make Rogue the only class that can flank back lines.

[granite plinth]

fix your matchmaking already, greed literally better rn

[dense sand]

greeds a POS lol

[granite plinth]

just fix the gaem ty

[gentle rapids]

Wow, gigabrain suggestion 👍

[civic oriole]

because they spawn together

[strong grotto]

Even if you didn't see that one geared player and wasn't able to cooperate, there is still this part: " I generally think, that people must be more cooperative in the runs. Like there should be only three reasons to fight someone: there is no more portals left, they've attacked you first and they've taken the boss you came in here to take yourself. ". See the problem? Most people just straight go for violence even if there is zero reason for it. Half of the lobby will be dead anyway, mobs, bad boss attempt, traps etc. Why waste your energy on fights that aren't absolutely necessary is beyond me. And if you are about to tell me something about "It is PvP part of the game!" - true. And you will have more than enough of PvP for you whether you wish for it or not since most people are that stupid and will W-key at you for no reason, but your existence, which they took personal.

[robust bison]

not everytime and mostly almost never

[limpid niche]

fix bard damage skills going thru the floor/walls such bullshit

[granite plinth]

that’s makes bard even worse then he already is lmfao

[robust bison]

yes 💀

[limpid niche]

i take it you havent been killed by a bard above you

[granite plinth]

he’s already so bad they don’t need to nerf him more, instead of complaining about a mechanic in the game learn to play around the mechanic, walk two steps back and he won’t do anything

[robust bison]

i did

[granite plinth]

i have over 1000 hours in the game, and yea i have and it sucks but have you even been in a 3v3 with a bard on the other team? they’re useless. just play around it instead of complaining

[limpid niche]

lol youre crazy

[granite plinth]

how?

[limpid niche]

bard is not useless in team figh

[granite plinth]

umm yes he is, i’ve never been wiped by a bard team, and i’ve killed hundreds (post nerf)

[limpid niche]

you cant tell me getting fluted through a floor is not bullshit

[granite plinth]

it’s not, the range through the door isn’t that far, and it doesn’t do enough damage to turn the fight

[gentle rapids]

If you can hear it you can feel it

[granite plinth]

only thing it does is keep u away from opening the door and allowing the other team to heal

[limpid niche]

guess its only a goblin caves issue but its still bullshit

im fighting 1v1 against a fighter in gc and a bard is above us just spamming his flute

[granite plinth]

ngl goblin caves isn’t on IM priority cuz most of the player base is on crypts

[limpid niche]

amazing high skill mechanic truly

[lucid charm]

Then they'll have to make all the sounds blocked by floor/walls

You can't hear Wizard/Cleric casting their spells through walls anymore

[limpid niche]

sounds good to me

[lucid charm]

That's also good for rangers, they will be able to set traps without being heard by the enemies behind doors.

[narrow snow]

Constitution: Scales HP
STR: Raw damage scalar.

As it stands now str builds are the way to go even on rogue and ranger. The movement speed Cap ruined any chance of dex builds being decent. Look at all top rank martial characters and STR is the Stat they are stacking.

[limpid niche]

ever notice how cleric's aoe damage spell aggros mobs below you? you think thats intended?

the good ol Z axis damage

[granite plinth]

not necessarily true, they stack to about 15 STR cuz that’s the soft cap then they go for weapon dmg cuz there’s no cap on that, only pure strength builds are on front lines like Fighter/Barb

[lucid charm]

Yes? What makes you think it's not?

Its visual is literally a sphere

[limpid niche]

just seems goofy and poorly coded. it shouldnt go through walls

[granite plinth]

it’s a circle so it hits everything

[lucid charm]

The only thing that shouldn't go through walls is chain lightning

[limpid niche]

and yet it does if you stand by a door. but thats just a "Mechanic" of the game I guess

[granite plinth]

do we have a time for wipe on tuesday?

[dense sand]

no

[late osprey]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495173/actual-dungeon-crawler-maps

[next wagon]

remove 3rd person

[olive oasis]

Remove rangers slow on arrows and remove bards spamming piercing shrill while just running around these things remove so much skill expression from the game and also why hasn't bard hitting through walls been fixed?

[gentle rapids]

If you can hear it you can feel it

[olive oasis]

Through walls doesn't work when you can't counter it

[gentle rapids]

Walk back

[untold badge]

Hee guys take a look at this idea! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494944/druid-shapeshift-idea

[olive oasis]

So a class should be able to hold a whole room and you shouldn't be able to push in with out taking ~20-30 DMG minimum? You find that healthy?

[gentle rapids]

Yep 👍 just kill ‘em

[olive oasis]

Gonna assume youre a Barb main

[gentle rapids]

Correct, good job

[lucid charm]

Wizard and Ranger can do way more damage when you try to push a doorway

[olive oasis]

They have to be guarding the doorway though bard can just tuck in corner and hit you through infinite walls as long as you're in range

[lucid charm]

Yes, so the damage is less

[gentle rapids]

The range is also not that massive to go through two walls

[daring trail]

rogues got nerfed hard... so now, we must complain about...... bard!

[lucid charm]

plus it takes a long time to finish the song

[gentle rapids]

Well din does exist but few people carry it (I do 😈 )

[olive oasis]

Too many people in disc think no counterplay is healthy when it's not facepalm

[daring trail]

bards just kinda die if you get into melee... or if youre a ranger.. they just die

[lucid charm]

You have to play the class to figure out its weakness. I never bring piercing because it's just useless in trio map

[olive oasis]

What bards you fighting the ones I fight can eat at least 3 hits from blue falchions from all the buffs ?

[daring trail]

well i would recommend aiming for the head if it takes you MORE than 3 hits bud

[lucid charm]

I assume you play goblin cave?

[solar falcon]

are you canadian?

[olive oasis]

I hit more head in this game than your mum irl bud and no Trios game isn't balanced around gobbo babies

[daring trail]

i doubt that, she makes a killing off the street corner... especially if its taking you more than 3 shots for a bard...

[olive oasis]

No we play Trios

[olive oasis]

Homie you either aren't a good bard or don't play with good bards nuff said

[daring trail]

Youre just a sad man that thinks bard is OP when rangers and wizards exist lol. feeelsbad for this guy

[olive oasis]

Read ranger chat I'm talking about how rangers and wiz need tuned too I'm not biased

[lucid charm]

The only thing on Bard that kinda needs a nerf right now is the drum. The hitbox and damage is quite OP

[daring trail]

so do you think there is currently a class that doesnt need a nerf?

[granite plinth]

Get a rogue with "silence" ability to hit bard then push

But 3 secs of silence is really bad

[olive oasis]

Fighter seems more healthy rouge is pretty rough rn warlock isn't bad just needs full kit cleric isn't terrible just a touch strong with it being able to use ruby silver curias

[lucid charm]

Cleric shouldn't be able to wear Ruby Cuirass and Hounskull. Right now cleric's just a better tank than fighter.

[granite plinth]

Cooldown is also 1 min

[untold badge]

Lol that’s so inaccurate…

[olive oasis]

Then elaborate and don't just say wrong... such constructive opinion

[lucid charm]

I don't know how Ranger's Triple Shot can have a 18 seconds cooldown. It the most op skill in this game yet it has one of the shortest cooldown.

[granite plinth]

Idk which one needs more rework

[granite plinth]

They are both equally terrible in their own way

[olive oasis]

I think everyone would be more okay with rangers if the arrows didn't slow and I think rangers would be happier if they had different melee options

[strong grotto]

Bows are in need of nerf, the tripshot skill for sure... But I think it is not so about the bows themselves, but an overall change to how archery works in general. Bard needs to be FIXED, I think. Also blow of corruption needs to be nerfed. Then there is fighter, whose skills are all useless but two of them, which either requires for second wind to be nerfed or for his other skills being fixed (like shield slam) and buffed in order for class to not being locked on second wind and sprint only. Clerics need to lose some of their armor options, the heaviest of plates should be reserved for fighter exclusively... Wizards in need to be buffed a bit, actually... Barbarian s solid, IMO... Rogues are... Good. Probably need some slight buff or overhaul in general.

[daring trail]

wizards need to be buffed a bit? yikes

[lucid charm]

Rogues are not good in Trio team. I really hope they make rogues more useful in trio instead of just a solo class.

[strong grotto]

Yup. Like maybe that ice shield perk instead of giving them 30 armor to just consume that 30 damage and go for the recharge. They can die from things just looking in their general direction, lol.

[daring trail]

yea but if you nerf bows, they no longer die like you say they do. Plus wizards do disgusting damage.. they are essentially glass cannons. If you are making them tankier they need a heavy damage nerf

[strong grotto]

How so? They provide lots of team utility, no? If you judge class only by his solo potential - that is wrong, you know?

[olive oasis]

Wizard doesn't need buff they are the strongest class their scaling and versatility is unmatched

[daring trail]

i'm convined you dont even play dog... wtf are these takes you have

[strong grotto]

I have a suggestion that can fix bows, actually. Here:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493924/melee-and-ranged-battle-system-improvement

[strong grotto]

I've played a bit rogue, but you are right. They aren't my main class. Though I am beyond happy about fact that landmine rogue crap is no longer a thing. That's why I've asked you to elaborate how exactly they aren't good?

[lucid charm]

I don't know, lots of people just don't want Rogues in their team in my area. Rogues are not very good at pushing.

[daring trail]

That isnt the correct question right now, the question is "how are they good" lol

[strong grotto]

Again - they have a LOTS of utility. Did you know you can silence people from using any of their skills or spells? And they still have lots of damage to boot. Not as huge, as before, sure, but it is more than enough to kill fighter who suddenly can't use his second wind to heal or his sprint to escape. Yes, rogues are not as braindead as they were before, now they actually require a functioning cerebral functions like any other class. Well, except barbarians... Barbarians are head empty style...

[next pebble]

give buckler shield bash 50% armor pen and shake the meta up

[lucid charm]

3 seconds of silence isn't that long, and rogues can't really kill plate fighters anymore.

They nerfed Rogue's armor pen too hard so nobody brings weakpoint anymore.

[daring trail]

Outisde of running a +3 all purple weapondamage/strength build, rogues arent killing fighters with plate on.

Just watched a bradquackson vid after the nerf, and a wizard took 4 stilleto headshots in a gray kit before dying.

Their damage is lack luster, Im not sure where you are getting LOTS of utility from, bards silence is 10x better, and they basically have nothing else utility wise? I mean if you really wanna include trap disarming, but thats irrelevant in 99% of cases.

stealth was also super nerfed

[strong grotto]

Before you give anything to shield slam skill you should fix the skill in the first place. The hitbox is stupid, half of the times you miss even on the target literally in front of you, and the shield doesn't have any solid object properties when you use the skill, so people can strike THROUGH YOUR SHIELD if you use it. Fix that first and then you can try to add something above it.

[lucid charm]

the action speed of shield bash is ridiculously slow, that's the main issue

[stuck perch]

The silence doesn't last long enough for the cool down it has, to be all that great.

[strong grotto]

They can. And not only fighters. Besides, we were discussing rogues in three man group, no? I saw a video where group of rogues attacked another group of players, they were hitting and retreating them one after the other so the silent was almost permanent on one of them. Last they've killed was a barbarian who was to slow to get them and wasn't even able to use rage or any other thing. You just need to be smarter on rogues than before. The class is not as dead as some claim to be. Besides - there are the matchups any class should avoid. Like if I am playing fighter I will run at the first sight of mage, because he will roast me inside my armor with like 1-2 spells. But the rogue can kill him EZPZ. Rogues still can shank rangers.

[stuck perch]

Make shield bash something that procs on the next successful block dealing damage, push back and a slow/stun/incapacity to attack.

[strong grotto]

A counter? That's actually good idea.

[stuck perch]

So what I'm getting from this is that Cut throat is only useful if you stack 3 rogues. That's kinda sad that an ability requires you to stack 3 of the same class to be useful.

[daring trail]

funny how you cherry pick that one video where they faced an entire gray melee comp haha.

1 ranger and all the rogues died, 1 wiz and gg.

Rogues cant just run at any class, and with the stealth nerf they cant just sit in a corner and wait either.

[strong grotto]

No, it is useful in general. What I am trying to say is that rogue became harder to play, for sure, but they are NOT useles as you claim them to be.

[stuck perch]

The idea here is to give the fighter something to create a window for punishment vs high attack speed weapons.

[lucid charm]

A group of 3 Rogues fighting a team that has Fighter and Barbarian? They're just playing for fun.

[stuck perch]

Rogue may be harder to play, that doesn't make cut throat any more viable especially outside of 3 stacking it.

[civic oriole]

could set up a point system assigning gear points and if points total reaches a certain point they should be only allowed to high roller. I see tons of over geared squads wiping lobbies of basics

[stuck perch]

We all knew this was going to happen no matter what. Besides people creating smurf characters aren't doing so because they want to do HR and can't. Besides something like a gearscore system will just break the game. The devs said so too, it just doesn't work for a extraction looter style game.

[lucid charm]

A barb shouldn't be unable to catch up rogue, any good Barb knows how to use francisca axe.

[strong grotto]

You may not believe me - but I saw what I saw.

[civic oriole]

ye but fighting against a skill gap and fighting against a skill gap with them all stacked with Jacked gear just makes it so much worse. atleast if the gear was limited it would feel a bit more like you have a chance

[lucid charm]

I believe you. I'm just saying that it won't happen in high skill matches.

[stuck perch]

There are multiple ways of gaining an advantage over your opponents, gear is just one of them. That it's the easiest and most reliable one to attain doesn't make it that much better than the others.

[civic oriole]

i have fun fighting win or lose against people better than me, but when i get destroyed and see them wearing all blue/purple, and gold I just feel like wtf go to HR

[lucid charm]

Add repair system. You need to repair your gears after a game, the better they're, the higher the cost

NG will have too little money for them to maintain their gears

[stuck perch]

Just create another stack of maps that are harder and provide more rewards. Charge a high price for access to the map, one that lasts until you go back into the easier maps.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment544273

[civic oriole]

I just feel like they should do something to help prevent really good people from gearing up insanely well and wiping lobbies of basics. rather than nerfing everything every other patch. why not just gear cap stuff and leave it up to the people to fight on a more even field.

[stuck perch]

Cap the gear found in each dungeon, better geared players aren't going to want to risk their good gear for a chance at finding pennies.

[civic oriole]

nobody would do it. look at hr now. squads equip the best gear and steam roll lobbies of basics to feel good about themselves. if they were that good they would go in semi or bare basic geared.

[stuck perch]

That's because the rewards for the lower dungeons are better for the risk that you take for going there.

[strong grotto]

I found the video I saw that in, check it if yo want:
https://youtu.be/2hxFSeIDwmQ

[civic oriole]

the gear cap solves alot of problems. something like hey your squads total gear points is over the current limit please remove/replace gear to enter this lobby or go to a high roller lobby

[lucid charm]

Can you give me the time? The video is kinda long.

[civic oriole]

rewards? your lucky to find a blue or 2 in each match. these people are rocking purp/gold steam rolling the maps

[strong grotto]

It is like 1 minute in.

[tribal knot]

Fighters being the CAN DO ALL that basicly if you want to be a ranger BE A FIGHTER as you will basicly only loose the quickshot perk as the fighter is just a BETTER RANGER with the armour and other perks/buffs

[lucid charm]

They don't have any gears, neither do the enemies, I don't think this prove anything

[tribal knot]

?

[lucid charm]

I'm not talking to you

[tight flicker]

can we have a gear rating system? so ur matched with people who hav around the same rating as you?

[daring trail]

yea, like i said earlier, the video he references is very cherry picked. The greatest part about it, is repoze actually got in melee of the ranger and it took 7 hits lmfaooo. If the ranger didnt panic, and just melee'd repoze, repoze wouldve died and lost that fight

[ivory quartz]

You can't seriously be tring to use the fight in that video as an example to claim rogue is still a "good" class? That is horribly cherry picked. It is obvious just from watching it for a minute that the team they fight is in starter gear and is new. The Ranger and Barb do not fight intelligently, Hell the Ranger misses two shots and near point blank. Please, for your own sake don't try and use Spudhunter videos as an argument, the guy is badfaith.

[strong grotto]

Why warlocks are so damn bad? just how can you design a class THIS bad, lol?!

[kind vale]

Looking to buy a Cinder, hit me up

[tight flicker]

warlock good wym

[lucid charm]

because it's not finished? delete half of wizard's spell and wizard will be bad as well

[tight flicker]

warlock is godly

[strong grotto]

Where is he good? Like literally WHERE? He has like ONE GOOD ability - the blow of corruption. All else is trash.

[tight flicker]

curse of pain and sacrifice

weaken is good, and hellfire is amazing for pressuring, phantomize allows u to push rangers too

curse of pain is a more annoying version of zap, so if u have magical damage, bam dmg central

[gray belfry]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this. but maybe have lobby where you can not use traded gear. Say once you take gear in to the market and trade it once it gets a "traded" stamp on it. once has that it can not go into the "trade free" lobbies?

[grave nebula]

I would suggest the devs put more enemies in the multi-tiered stairs & bridge sections of the Goblin Caves. It's way too easy for Rangers to find a quiet spot to snipe from there and more enemies would force them to clear mobs like the rest of us!

[empty valve]

Please god no more enemies in goblin caves. Take out some enemies if youre gonna put some in

[grave nebula]

take some from the other sections and put them in the ones i mentioned

[empty valve]

Ye thatd be good then. Itd be nice if the goblin caves had a slower circle move. If the main focus is on the PVE aspect for the caves, we need more time

[grave nebula]

literally most of the goblins are on the bottom level, rangers get free access to sniping locations with maybe 1 bat or death skull to kill in the multi-tier sections of the map

[empty valve]

Ranger himself is one of the best classes to clear the mobs, in all maps IMO, its kinda crappy, almost like you NEED one on your team rn lol

[grave nebula]

yeah i just dont want anyone with projectiles to have such an easy time setting up a quick spot to snipe all game

[empty valve]

Ye I 100% agree, like I mostly play ranger and think he's pretty OP right now and needs some nerfs

[grave nebula]

totally i respect rangers as a barb (even though they hit me hard), i dont think they need too hard a nerf, but the portions of the goblin cave that are friendly to them are too easy to clear in under a min

[empty valve]

Yee they dont need the rogue treatment, but some smaller buffs and changes would really balance him out. Itd be cool if some of the mobs had higher projectile armor too
Respect to the barb tho, gotta love the barb players

[grave nebula]

thanks hehe

[tranquil plaza]

remove slow ez fix

[glass harbor]

plz friend list

[granite plinth]

Plz friend list!!!

[obtuse socket]

unpopular opinion: High ranged damaged is unhealthy to this game. Health economy is already a big thing in a hardcore game like this.

[arctic lagoon]

i can hard agree, think draw speeds on bows need to be longer. higher damager = longer draw speed, crossbows are great examples of this

should also apply to the ranger abilities so it isnt just, a 3 hit kill instantly.

[inner hollow]

WE NEED A QUIVER FOR ARCHERS...

[arctic lagoon]

exactly, but should NOT have buffs because thats uh, gonna end up being a massive problem. make it more like the lanterns

[royal orchid]

Tbh id start by removing the slow on ranged attack(exept icebolt), rangers are already fast they dont need a 35% slow on every ranged attacks making follow up hits almost guaranteed (100% certain in case of longbow triple shot)

[wraith galleon]

Something needs to change with the new 15+ lobby's. when i run into multiple people that get to 15 and delete character/ restart because they don't want to be in the lobby with all 15+ chads who probably duped gold or bought gold, it tells me its not good.

[unreal elk]

do you think a level cap on certain items like capes, blue rings, would push down the amount of people that bring high quality gear to under 15+ lobbies?

[midnight field]

Thoughts? https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495223/prewipe-events

[obtuse socket]

Yes, agreed, I'd even go as far as to say to remove the class altogether along with crossbows. There is no match up when it comes to peeking damage around a corner or long distance unless you have another ranger/ or crossbow holder. Yes wizard exists, but he's not exactly fast for peek damage/ nor long distance at least vs a ranger class. Throwables should be the form of ranged damage for all classes. It will make fights more interesting, with wasting less health economy.

[spring spade]

Rename Smite to Holy Weapon. Smite is aPaladin spell

[arctic lagoon]

another thing, NERF THE HIT SLOW. WHY

if they want to slow, make it so they HAVE to aim for the legs not just the general body.

[royal orchid]

Ye, its legit just a better icebolt effect slapped on top of basic attacks that travel faster, are harder to see and therefore harder to dodge, with no drawbacks or limits. Its just silly when you hit them and they turn into a snail

[arctic lagoon]

slow being a thing you get on a range weapon makes it infuriating to play against especially since its free hits

[arctic lagoon]

i do believe that normal hits without abilities should have way less effects than active abilities or spells. because at that point, make it a spell??? example: creep, poisoned weapon, ice shield, protection from evil.

but again, thinking itll be better when training trees come out >:/

how it should be for projectiles arrows < aoe spells < direct projectile spells

right now its aoe spells < direct projectile spells < arrows

[jagged flicker]

too many ideas, condense it moar

[abstract swallow]

the hitslow on ranged weapons is balanced by how absurdly slow they are
longbow is one of the highest weight weapons in the game and has more slowdown for actually shooting the bow than being hit by it

[arctic lagoon]

i like

[storm blade]

Keep living under a rock

[arctic lagoon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495232/give-shield-bash-active-blockbox give shieldbash blockframes

basically it does not block any attacks, even though its a shield bash

[dense sand]

Longbow should only get a double shot, make Recurve and Survival the only Triple shotters, tripleshot longbow is insane

[royal orchid]

So to make it balanced with your logic, all ranged spells should slow their targets because casting makes you slower and holding casting items also slows you?

[restive gazelle]

triple shotis insanejuste make it a double shot

[royal orchid]

Cant imagine the seething if zap and fireball slowed on hit lmao

[vocal kayak]

If they did that then the slow spell would be pointless

[patent pawn]

Hey I was told to come here to share 🙂 I thought it would be cool to eventually add something like 3v3 ranking system, kinda like apex has with their arenas where you have the CoD style gearing, but you also get tokens from winning that can be used to buy gear at a special vendor. Also, maybe add where you can try multiple matches in a row and you get more ranking for winning multiple times. Or maybe cosmetics for base gear instead of items at the special vendor.

[royal orchid]

It is already made pointless by the fact rangers get a similar effect for free on all their ranged attack

[arctic lagoon]

it really should be if oyu hit the legs or below than anything

[royal orchid]

If rangers want ranged slow they should take the perk, have it their only way to slow from afar and buff it a bit to compensate needing to hit legs and trading damage for CC

[restive gazelle]

rangers attack shouldnt slow perk or not

[broken vessel]

The game isn't supposed to be a one-shot fest. Sure, the Barbarian can pull off one-shot moves, which will be more balanced in the upcoming patch. The game is meant to be a brawl, with fights that require more than just a single hit. Taking four shots to bring down a Wizard isn't too bad.

Yes, the game is pretty unbalanced right now, but you're saying the damage is lackluster. You have invisibility, silence, and numerous build options, like stealth. True stealth was nerfed, but look at the perks. You still get a speed boost and a 30% damage increase. Catching someone off guard, backstabbing, etc., can still deal a ton of damage from the Rogue.

And if you want a free stat boost in fights, you have white pots for free move speed and damage. Admittedly, the damage might be lower now, but every class is going to be balanced. The old Rogue was so detrimental to the game; it made people quit, and it made the game less enjoyable. At least now, you can react in a way that doesn't lead to going from 100% HP to 0% in half a second. Also, Rogues can't just hide in a corner for the whole game, waiting for the third party to clean up as easily as before.

[daring trail]

sorry dog half that isnt even spelt right i am not reading

[arctic lagoon]

my issue is the cost reward situation with certain classes. like some classes have way more reward than risk with certain things

also its important to give feedback to devs ESPECIALLY since its in early access and is constantly being changed

[broken vessel]

XD

[broken vessel]

my bad can ur eyes see it now that its corrected

the class jusr requires actual skill now to play 🤷

[daring trail]

I agree, rogue was overpowered. It needed a nerf. But it was kinda gutted, i dont agree with 8 separate nerfs. Its impossible to get real data when you change 8 variables at a time.

The damage IS lackluster if you dont have purple+ on, yeah man lets get 30% more damage on a 15 DAMAGE dagger. Do the math on that LOL.

I wouldn't even say it requires more skill, it requires the patience of just being the worse class in the game right now.

And for wizard? the class that can one shot multiple other classes? they should be able to eat 4 melees in gray kit? maybe

[royal orchid]

Im i the only one who think perk like ambush(or any similar effect/attack modifier) should be flat damage instead of %, would alleviate the scaling issues and make it easier to balance for both late game geared people and early game no gear runs

[arctic lagoon]

yes, or maybe have it be flat + half of the percentage now.

[royal orchid]

Rupture is a good example i think

[daring trail]

im excited to see patch notes for tuesday, as i assume we will see many changes across the board 🙂

[untold badge]

Hey guys take a look at this idea! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494944/druid-shapeshift-idea

[slender marten]

Don't allow 2 of the same classes on a team.

[small furnace]

You know just thinking, maybe they should have like an 'elite' queue for the people in the elite discord. Or something of the like, idk I just don't think I'd ever want to play against any of those people that make this game their career. Their montages are cool and all but to be on the receiving end of someone that has 14+ hours every day to play and has an equally sweaty squad with them just doesn't look all that fun.

[daring trail]

yeah but when ya start talking about that, all of the SBMM come out of their rat holes

[tawdry whale]

thoughts on nerfing bow damage and adding arrow raritys with varying damage and adding the flame arrows from the skeleton archers

[daring trail]

Purple arrows -- +3 weapon damage +3 strength +3 true physical damage

[cursive roost]

i hope they finally change duo map for more competetive, with Highroller and hell N'shit

[arctic lagoon]

hell no

[broken vessel]

Yeah, it's underpowered to some extent. As I said, I'm hoping the balance changes in the wipe patch will address the one-shots. Take the Wizard, for example. They're supposed to deal a ton of damage. They've got like 20 different spells to cast, and you want them to waste those on you. If they've used them up on PvE, they're more useless than a bare-knuckle Rogue.

Now, combine that with backstabbing a mobile class that's got agility and extra move speed from other perks. You pop backstab and ambush, sure, the dagger only does 15 damage, but it should be around 34 damage, give or take. That's just from the basic dagger. On an attack/move speed class, hitting as hard as a horsemans axe is pretty good.

Most people run when they're low on health, so you burn them down, back up. If you have a white pot, drink it when you see an opening, and you should come out on top. Or, you can just outrun 99% of the other classes.

Yeah, Rogues aren't meant to do giant amounts of consistent damage. They're all about the burst, hiding, popping out, running, and basically stalking to find that perfect moment to execute. In most games, Rogues have never been known for dealing the most damage, but they excel at outplaying and require a lot more skill.

Think of the Rogue as a class meant to outplay their target and avoid skill issues. I'm not saying Rogue isnt underpowered, but it's not gutted. Sure, it's been gutted from the brainless 1v3 bace kit of what it used to be, but it requires more skill to master. You need to memorize attack patterns of weapons, maps, and use the Rogue's perks to outmaneuver your opponents.

Rogue isn't a bad class; it's just that if the mind games style isn't for you, then Rogue might not be your thing. If you're all about one-shotting, go with Barb. If you want to deal a lot of damage and survive, Fighter's your go-to. If you want to snipe from a distance, Wizard's the pick. And if you prefer a class thats wizzy without aoe, Ranger's your choice.

[small furnace]

Yeah I don't want some of that, but I feel if the elite people could opt in to a gamemode where they get top-end pvp they probably would.

I'm good missing out on playing against those guys, doesn't feel like I have any chance against them, SBMM and GBMM are dumb because it's equalizing every chance I have. I can occasionally kill someone much better than me with better gear if they make a mistake, but people who just have their career as this game aren't going to make mistakes.

[daring trail]

yea arrow rarity sounds miserable

[broken vessel]

truee

[tribal knot]

Holy strike cant wait for that to be looked at

[broken vessel]

i am hopeing cus the game is 1 shot or get 1shot most of the time or just get out healed or out stated cus of someone has 2 more damage then you

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495248/arrowweapon-collision -vote up if you want to hit arrows out of the air with anything.

[daring trail]

I mostly agree with what you are saying.

Wizards dont use all of their spells on pve, stop that non sense. plus they have ways of getting spells back, you will never see a "bare-knuckle rogue" wizard lmfaoooo.

I agree, the one shot or be one shot at purple+ stage is not the greatest gameplay

[jagged flicker]

Bare knuckle rogue can still bleed. Used to be able to weakpoint+bleed punch. :/

[small furnace]

Wizard pve is miserable, but they definitely still have spells available to fight in pvp, they are one of if not THE strongest pvp class in the game. Though probably second to bard.

[broken vessel]

no i mean if u catsh a wizzard that isnt uber geard that trying to clear a mumy room but all there magicmissles and like 1 fireball are gone they loose 6 total spell and if they get skill diffed by a rogue goint invis and mmoveing away to catch them from a angle they arent looking u get an advantage type thing not like u use 20 spells in 1 room jsut saying if u outplay them and they didnt get the chance to get them back they be become virtualy the worst class over all cus no utility if they get movement diffed or just didnt have the right spells like if they used all there zaps on a diffrent fight then they become useless cus if u play super close and they fireball they die with you type thing

[tawdry whale]

I dont see how arrow rarity would be miserable lmao like I said nerf the base damage of the bow and each arrow has its own damage that is added to the bow damage. For example Grey longbow 30 damage grey arrow 6 dmage then so on

[daring trail]

i gave you an example above that.
unless they change how stats and random rolls work, i gave you a perfect example of some purple quality arrows. and no that sounds miserable

[broken vessel]

like worst class without any tiems like no sword and no armor i would say is fighter cus they got 1 amage skill whitch isnt badd but isnt to good either

[arctic lagoon]

ah yes lemme buy +20 damage arrows, with a 30+ bow with 20% damage armor. thatll be balanced

[small furnace]

Last thing we need is more rarities of consumables to pollute the high-rarity drop pool anyway.

Nothing feels worse than rolling a purple drop only to find out it's a health potion lol

[arctic lagoon]

personally i like more magic items for characters

[broken vessel]

yea in pvp ur not wrong but if u catch a wizzard in a rock and a hard place they become the most useless class wwithout spells like if dodge there fireballs they are low on zaps cus of pvp bifore and never got the chance to rest you know without spells they become pvp useless and that woul be the rogues out play is there movement speed to out play and like i sed to basicly dont go right in watch them count spells and know waht they got in there book of tricks and if u know there at there weakist rogue shines the brightist out of any class for the stalking and entering when u see the right chance

[tawdry whale]

thankgod ur not on a balancing team then

[broken vessel]

rogue i think is a outplay mind games character at this point in time cus it was the most brainless class to the class that i would say takes the most skill to master and thirve at rogue is in my oppinion stalk and be smart about every move kinda like playing chess and geting into the mind of the person u think u would get the most loot from

[arctic lagoon]

thanks person i dont know or respect

[tribal knot]

As it should be

[daring trail]

Right, but is it good gameplay for the only counter to wizard to be, "i hope he runs out of spells"

[tawdry whale]

I would definitly like to see more items and weapons added to the game it gets repetetive seeing the same stuff everygame

[small furnace]

No idea what you mean. There is a very large pool of useless items that are polluting the pool and making looting feeling hollow as hell sometimes.

Oh hell yeah a purple feather cap with +5 magic res and +3 spell capacity. Just what I needed. We don't need 'more items' making this pool anymore diluted.

[arctic lagoon]

i think certain enemies and breakables should have more types of what they actually have, swords skeleton dropping swords or fighter orientated stuff. mage skeleton dropping mage items

also have more items be common in containers

[broken vessel]

or u hear him sit down to get more spells u know there low or if u see a fighter get hit by a pve mob while stalking them u know u have somesort of advantage then take it or for warlock wait till there casting there giant fireball on someone u see it happening jump in and kill them bard is playing a long song for dmg then backstab and ambush them ect u just need to be smart about every play u make cus of how rogues play in most games squishy burst that goes in then dips out of fights till they see an opeing with a long swing charge up then ho in backstab then run away ur more moble then any class u hit faster then any class and u can hide the easyist of any class use thos advantages to your worth on the class if u blindlessly run in saying i will 1 shot this barb then u get 1 shot that is verymutch your fault rogue is counter attack and burst so u hit run hit run and if ur both kitted and they got alot of heals let them drink pots or let them waste spells chaceing you you have the uperhand in every stat to be the class u were ment to be

[small furnace]

I would rather they just prevent useless rolls. By 'useless rolls' I don't mean rolls that are generally not good, like item equip speed +3% or something, I mean a roll that will LITERALLY never be able to do anything. Like a felling axe with +spell casting speed, spell capacity etc... this LITERALLY cannot benefit anyone in any way and only exists to dilute loot rolls.

[daring trail]

Ima be real, we mostly agree on how rogue should work lol.

Right now rogues feels too low while other classes are too high, which is why im excited for tuesday.. probably gonna play fighter or cleric anyway, but hey ill still stick up for the rogue here and there

[tawdry whale]

I agree with the useless rolls and the loot pool but i want new gear and new weapons not the same stuff weve had

[broken vessel]

they need pools for class spesfic items like on bard items the pool leans more to buff then spell capacity . . . i dont do anything or how on a bard spesfic items u get magical healing ur never gonna use that so null it from the pools of thos spefic items u know

[tawdry whale]

Along with not reskinning items like the rogue and ranger head gear add new stuff not reskin

[broken vessel]

not wrong i guess but the point is it isnt underpowerd it just more skill sealed then the brainless hold a corner for the whole game then 1 shot the full lobster kit guy with bace kit stuff u know there is many ways rogue is still good just need to use 10x more brain power to get it to feel good as a class

but as a solo class and a party class there played 10x diffrently

[small furnace]

But why do you want new weapons when certain items currently exist that do nothing?

Like for instance, what's the difference between adventurer boots, laced turnshoes, old shoes, or heavy boots? They're all just the exact same item that have the slightest variation of stats, not even meaningful ones. The only meaningfully different one is Lightfoot boots which have more movement speed. Gloves are good, we have gloves that give different stats for each type of character.

But pants for instance, what is the point of bardic pants? They have the exact same stats as cloth pants and no difference between them with a bard class restriction. Why do they exist? They don't have some kind of propensity to roll bard rolls more often they're literally just there to dilute the loot tables.

[broken vessel]

like its weak for the 1 shoting standard but its strong as a class consept u just need to get used to the difficult play style u need to now adapt to

[tawdry whale]

Why do u complain sm?

[small furnace]

Ok, thank you for the meaningful reply to what I said.

[daring trail]

you made a bad suggestions, multiple people called you out.. now this is your response XD

[broken vessel]

basicly play spaceing play for map knolage from past runs and find any advantage u can take to get the uperhand in a fight like silance or lower there armor or caltrops to out play and slow to kite them around and find that 1-2 hits u get then do it again or play spaceing with backroll

[tawdry whale]

I stopped talking about the arrows then switched over to new weapons and gear then kira over here jumped down my throat about diluted loot table

[daring trail]

Kira has spoke only facts tbh, i dont see complaints at all

[small furnace]

Because a diluted loot table is something that removes from my, and I believe many people's satisfaction in the game. You suggested it get diluted even further with 'new items'.

[tawdry whale]

Yo i love playing this game and every raid i pull 5 rapiers

[daring trail]

honestly youd be fine with it if they actually rolled decent stats and you could sell them for 100+g each

but instead they roll spell capacity 🙂 and spell casting speed 🙂

[jagged flicker]

are y'all even discussing a vote rn 🤓

[tawdry whale]

Oh for sure i love the rapier but change up pvp with different weapons that do different things most classes have a designated meta weapon so u dont see anything different

[small furnace]

I like to imagine in the canon of the world there's a disgruntled dark wizard intentionally enchanting items with bullshit stats that will never do anything and cackling to himself in his evil tower.

[broken vessel]

personaly i think the loot table for actual items should be weighed to pve a bit not like 70% increase but like light weapon mobs drop more light weapons on avrage hevy weapon for hevy weapon and mage for mage stuff for early gearing for ppl that either starte the wipe super lait or for semi target farming cus getting weapons that u cant use 20 times in a row sucks so u have some sort of chance to semi target farm a type of weapon atleast iff that kinda makes sence

[versed cave]

I think giving each class both Magic and physical damage of some kind could reduce the uselessness of magic stats on some classes. Like how we see some crystal sword fighters running victory strike

[broken vessel]

and if ur lvl like 7 and cant make it out atleast u can get some sort of gearing to try and pvp to an extent

[broken vessel]

true but why item equip speed it seems pritty useless unless ur a rogue thats spaming throwing knives every 2 sec then running then back to throwing ect

[unborn tusk]

Let rangers use hatchets

[tawdry whale]

I mean doesnt one of the magic characters put a spell on u that ignites ur weapon?

[broken vessel]

true that

[elfin vale]

rangers using hatchets is good idea why not

[tawdry whale]

rangers should get a new hunting knife type of weapon thats like a dagger

[broken vessel]

not like there gonna do more dmg then bows so really no harm

[small furnace]

Yeah possibly, but I think it would just be cool to make sure the stats can do SOMETHING, like even if the stat is NEAR useless that's acceptable. Like +1 will on a ranger longbow TECHNICALLY still increase magic res and buff duration for your trueshot. It will almost never come up? Yeah, true, but it is SOMETHING. I'm just advocating for the removal of stats that do ABSOLUTELY nothing on characters, like a stat that is a 100% dead stat on an item. No spell slots/spell capacity on longbows for instance since it will never come up ever.

[versed cave]

I agree, that stat makes no sense to me

[unborn tusk]

Just fits witht he whole ranger / forest theme imo

[normal lava]

How would you lot feel about reducing stat stick items to +1 and +2, then making higher quality items utility. As in, amulet of poison resist, ring of jump etc. Reducing the number juggling for the devs and focusing more on base stats overall for class balancing?

[versed cave]

Completely agree

[broken vessel]

ikr only thing i would think of is for monk idk how it will work but if u need to liek bandage your hands for your weapon smt

ngl was thinking of how monk would work and insted of spell u get combos u make like u get 3 basic attacks and if u do the combo right u can use a abilty like a small shock wave attack move speed or smt like that if monk worlks like black desert combo system it seems uber fun also its weapon would be wrapings or smt insted of swords and great staffs

[grizzled whale]

bring greed and greeder qol mechanics to DaD

[normal lava]

Admittedly greeds wizard looks more fun.

Mechanics are janky as hell tho.

[broken vessel]

the game jsut needs to be balanced insted of more content to an extent. then get charts on how changes effect to make every class that perfect balance batween bad and good but really good or not really bad just like then more content would be faster to be the balance batween good and bad and wouldnt need to be rogue 2.0

[tawdry whale]

Saw some people talking about adding i think it was dwarves with mining based perks and skills and that sounds pretty cool to me

[normal lava]

Admittedly more customation in the form of race perks and skills would be interesting. Balancing issues aside from adding more player choice, it'd definitely be good from a player point of view, but harder for the devs. Since you'd have stuff like elves with speed perks + rogue equaling worse annoying balance juggling again.

[broken vessel]

also something a way to transfer loot to a lvl 10+ character so if u get trade hub u can trade items to ur characters aslong as they have gold fee so if u play 3 difrent classes u can transfer loot or mule items for more space cus space is a giant issue ngl

[normal lava]

I do think a bank system wouldn't be the worst 🤔

[tawdry whale]

we should be able to farm gold and spend it on storage upgrades

[normal lava]

I think adding backpacks would make storage easier. Letting you take them into the dungeon via the cape slot, but also using them for additional storage.

[small furnace]

Shared stash for characters level 15+ pls. If you have to make it cost 15 gold to transfer the same amount items you could in trade then sure, but right now having to use a friend is just annoying.

[broken vessel]

true sorta like POE if u have played that and guilds cus in alot DND games there are guilds

[tawdry whale]

yeah just pick up like sacks as the backpack but it hurts agility a little bit

[broken vessel]

and also naw should be like 1k gold per character so u cant just perma mule cus 1k gold is hard to get but isnt imposable to a extra storage batween all your characters

or like 500

and gives a good reason play more then 1 class cus u could play 1 class and get alot of full sets for every class but the one ur playing so if just unllock it u can make sets and not need to sell "useless" gear to your class

[small furnace]

I am fine with a one-time fee as well. Just give us an easier way to transfer cause doing so through friends is zzzz. Don't wanna have to hit up my friend every time I find a purple falchion while playing on my ranger.

[broken vessel]

true 1 time would be nice

or u get it for free but its half of the normal space but u can get like 3 tabs for 500 1k and 1.5k increaeing the amount per extra stash space u want

free at lvl 10 or 15 tho

so its semi balanced but u can choose what character u want to spend the gold on to get more space

[normal lava]

-10 Movement to equip a backpack, flat. 0 stat buffs but increased carry capacity for the loot hoarders.

Can buy cheap from the leather worker for like 15 gold, feels good.

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495264/ranger-equip-hatchet

[final aurora]

has there ever been a discussion or suggestion based around end of wipe stuff like tarkov does? IE: higher drop rates for all gear in ANY dungeon type stuff. There could be a lot of cool end of wipe events/things DnD could do to appease the community at the end of wipe! Just a suggestion I think is worth looking into doing!

[unborn tusk]

@jagged flicker awesome

[spring hound]

I think a new perk for rogue would be cool, like a bola or some shit, kind of like caltrops with a limited uses. could slow the target and do a bit of damage kind of like the goblin bolaslinger. My first idea was a boomerang because they are cool, i said it in a twitch chat and someone was like "bola rogue" which i thought was a cool idea so why not bring it here to talk about

[white cliff]

Do you not think the changes they’re making are based on data and general community complaints? I think nine of out ten patches they’ve made have been good for the game, say for the last one.

[pastel tinsel]

There needs to be a way to load into a game with the default kit without having to die first. Especially as a Ranger, why do I need to pay for new arrows every run when it's cheaper just to load in and let the game kill me so I can get 30 free

[white cliff]

Buy arrows.

[normal lava]

That would be a consumable at best and i'd consider that more of a ranger item 🤔.

[jagged flicker]

Ranger should get a discount on arrows tbqh. They gotta pay gold for a successful run if they wanna use their core mechanic.

[steep tartan]

its useless in most areas, but if youre playing a sprinter fighter with a bow or halberd/Sword-shield you can use it to change weapons for a decent advatage, you just have to hoard so much of it for it to be worth it, but once you do, it can be very op

[steep tartan]

no rangers shut

[jagged flicker]

classist

[steep tartan]

rangers deserve the rogue treatment

[solemn needle]

I do love the wallhack rogues using purple gear. I was behing a door and magically this dude knew opened and stabbed me

[past oyster]

u are so bad LMFAOOO

[formal granite]

bro actually is a freak lmfao

[past oyster]

bro called me a schizo to back up his point just to lose another arguement sad

also i disagree!!! people should be able to play the game when they paid 35$!!

[formal granite]

you are man you made up a whole story about goblin caves etc and are typing everywhere in this discord you can while @ me LMAO

[formal granite]

oh did I add you were larping as a dev and saying you have access to ranger statistics and are on leaderboards when you arent? yikes

[past oyster]

not u going back on past arguements when i still won them 😭 u cant come up with anything new

[formal granite]

are u ok?

ahh a dose of reality for the freak whos spam typing to me

[past oyster]

No they shouldn't do a gear-based matchmaking because its just going to make the game more dead. high roller right now is empty, lobbies fill up slowly, game is 10k players while it used to be 60k. If you have different queues for gear ur just gonna have dead lobbies. and its also unfair, since greens can be better than legendaries based on their stats. No one buys gear for the "color" they buy it for the +3 weapon damage etc. they need to remove damage stats on all armors

[haughty bison]

bruh, a 33 wep dmg green with +3 wep dmg is only 36 wep dmg. People buy purples and oranges to get increased wep damage in the 45ish range. 45 > 36

[past oyster]

ah yes, a 33 wep dmg green with +3 wep dmg is only 36 wep damage. then since we can wear 6 different clothes, its like what 21+ weapon damage? and then ur on a rogue with % damage scaling abilities and perks? do u not understand what I said? im clearly talking about armors

[haughty bison]

the first part of what you said is cool, second part is false

[past oyster]

how so

no gearscore type system, just get rid of trading or have trade queue

[calm prairie]

what if we remove solo q and gc is the duos map since people are so intent on teaming in there anyway

[haughty bison]

"greens can be better than legendaries based on their stats. No one buys gear for the "color" they buy it for the +3 weapon damage etc." is wrong, that's how. Greens are not better than legendaries due to their base armor, magic resist, weap dmg, movespeed bonus on the base gear is very high. Many people buy them cheap becuase the extra stats arn't as good but having an extra 30-60 armor on you is like having a couple more pieces of gear on. I don't think you understand that gear isn't just the rng stats that get added on it.

However, i did say the first part of what you were saying is true. I agree we shouldn't do a gear-based matchmaking

[abstract swallow]

they're just fun little casual gamemodes, put them in a seperate rotating queue so people know they're just for-fun

[calm prairie]

the point is also to reintegrate ruins into 3man maps

whole setup of the maps/gamemodes is just lame compared to the original vision imo

[abstract swallow]

I mean it does kinda need to be relegated to being some type of limited gamemode
over half the population just sits in GC farming gold/gear and then stomps in full kit

[haughty bison]

yea, i farm in GC until my buddies are ready to play then take my earnings into those matches. So much fun but I can understand were you're coming from

[somber wind]

I think that Duos is fun but I don't think Ruins should be Duos personally. I think Duos like Solos should have their own maps that were designed for it. I assume Ruins being Duos was just a test but I don't think we should be complacent and assume it'll go back to trios and get a duos map; we should make it known that's the outcome we want.

[short heath]

Now do all of that with well rolled purple+ gear, where instead of just having + weapon damage rolls, you ALSO have a mix of + all attributes, armor pen, true damage, etc... on top. That's the difference, and if you can't see that, you're willingly being ignorant, are actually blind, are really bad at math, or all 3. It would be objectively limiting the potential stat differential, and that means that a full BIS green set person or team has way less of a chance to roll a lobby when compared to a full BIS purple+ person or team.

[drowsy grotto]

This game is really taking the tarkov approach to sound with it being extremely buggy
Maybe put a bit of energy towards that

also implement gearscore during the last week of wipe, it'll just make everything more enjoyable. (Like during the start to the last week of wipe it's how it is now but when wipe is announced aka week before wipe gearscore is activated)

[haughty bison]

nah, if you don't have gear this far into the phase then it's ya own fault lol

[drowsy grotto]

I mean if you don't have gear at all it's your own fault, this'll just make the game more accessible to newer players at a time where everything/everyone is overly op.
Plus it benefits people who don't hard main one character

[past oyster]

It is EXTERMELY rare for someone to get that gear, do you understand? its very easy to do a goblin cave run and come out with 200g to buy a +3 weapon damage set than spent 1k each on armor. what are you even saying?

AND THAT MEANS people who have puruples with bad stats get to get matched with people with op stats? you clearly didnt read the entire convo. which is why gearscore will kill the game

[short heath]

You can get a full set of +3 weapon damage and 1 other useful stat purple gear in less than an hour for maybe 1.5k total. Are you spending a little more gold? Yeah. But you're also ensuring that you won't be killed by anyone else in the lobby except for another ridiculously geared person or trio. The whole point of a GBMM system is to prevent people who intentionally punch down from punching down. If you're even running a purple item that has no useful stats to your class, that's a game knowledge issue. There are blues and purples not even worth picking up.

[past oyster]

So if im a player and pick up a purple hat which has bad stats but a direct upgrade to the default one, why am I being punished with people who have op items?

THEY NEED TO ADD A NO TRADE QUEUE AND TRADE QUEUE its as simple as that and if you think that having a gearscore to separate queues into 5 different matchmakings based on color then ur wrong and the games going to be empty lobbies every single time which is currently is

[short heath]

First of all, one piece will not bring you into a massively higher bracket of play if the GBMM system is implemented with any amount of thought.

[past oyster]

Doesn't matter, why should I be punished for upgrading my item i found

[short heath]

You're not being punished, my guy. How is fighting other people with similar gear to you punishing?

[past oyster]

Why do I get to wear gear with bad stats to go against someone with the same gear with better stats? is that balanced to u?

why are we splitting up the queues into 5 different matchmakings based on rarity when the crypts barely fill up to 18 players currently?

[feral prism]

How would yall feel about having inferno be added to the map list, Like you can just skip crypts and go to inferno?

[short heath]

My brother in christ, do you not know that there are ways to put weightings on stats to make the system actually work better than your puny brain can comprehend?

[past oyster]

so now we are putting GBMM on different stats? one queue for rarity, then it adds another queue for different stats?

so now we have 21 different queues, one for each rarity, and one for each stat, I cant wait to get into a full lobby full of people wearing +item equip speed!!! i bet the queues gonna take seconds!!!

[tawdry sail]

what in the everloving straw man is this

[past oyster]

there are currently 10k players if we add gearbased matchmaking everything above green will be empty lobbies

[tawdry sail]

imo toxic community is a bigger problem than item queues

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree

[past oyster]

@short heath can you type any faster didnt mean to reply to u @unique locust

[short heath]

sigh no. Each different stat can have a different weight based on how good/bad it is.

You have two useless stats (physical healing and magical interaction speed, for instance), they will only be worth 0.2 each as opposed to two useful stats (+ all attributes and + weapon damage), they will be worth 1.8 each, when put towards a total GS.

[unique locust]

all good 🙂

[silver umbra]

Make gear level based, so you can't bring capes into under 15 - or any high tier gier to mess with people

[past oyster]

Dude, no 💀 you're just making queue times longer

theres simply not enough players to be adding gear based matchmaking, we would need at least 200k like the playtests

[short heath]

If a 2 min queue is long to you, then you have problems. Not to mention that there is legitimately no reason not to add GBMM aside from slightly longer queue times.

[feral prism]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494844/combine-rouge-perks

[past oyster]

A yes, a 2 min queue that we have to wait because the lobby is 7/18 every game 🙂 and even then its still not filled up!!!

[short heath]

Ever wonder why so many people left in the first place? Maybe this is one of the problems that needs addressing.

[past oyster]

If we add GBMM, the game will die. why not just make it simple? a queue for traders guild and no traders guild? why are we making up unrealistic scenarios ironmace will never make

[past oyster]

yea, people left because the games bland, no new content and every update is just numbers adjusting

[short heath]

"The game will die"

How? How will it cause the game to die? Give me an actual logical progression of how you believe it would happen in real time.

[past oyster]

empty lobbies. people play this game to interact with players. we add GBMM to 10k players who currently play this and now its a pve game!!! how fun!!

[short heath]

My brother in Christ, you already complained about dead lobbies and there isn't even GBMM in the game yet. How could it possibly get worse?

[past oyster]

because its going to make the game EVEN MORE EMPTY?????

right now we are getting less than 10 players a lobby, imagine what GBMM will do. go play high roller right now, its empty. thats how it will end up

[feral prism]

Both of yall, Gear based MM is bad, Not only does it ruin the experience for new players (you could just stomp on them because they dont know how to pvp) But one of the appeals of the game is bringing in gear to kill under geared players, if there is someone JUICED in your lobby, you have 2 options, Kill them or Hide.
It would ruin this dynamic. And at the same time it would lead to longer que times for Highly geared players, Believe it or not but most people dont go running around in purples or blues (And the ones that do are rewarded for there risk by being more likely to win fights with under geared players) but they might run greys or greens, maybe a few blues/purples in there.

[short heath]

Or, maybe the gamestate will become more healthy overall as the players who are willingly BIS stacking into no-ante lobbies realize that they don't get free lobby wipes anymore and they end up playing against each other instead, and the players (specifically new ones) who actually have lives and can't play 14 hours a day don't get pushed away by getting stomped every match they play? If anything GBMM would make HR lobbies more populated and no-ante lobbies more healthy, which would result in better player retention across the board.

[past oyster]

its literally what im saying to him but he doesn't understand

[feral prism]

TL;DR adding GBMM Would ruin not only the risk aspect of the game, but also encourage new player stomping

[past oyster]

like literally

[feral prism]

Onyx, What is your point on why GBMM should be in the game

Make it clear and consise please

[silver umbra]

9/10 Times the geared peeps run people down no matter the cost. Not really fun for newer peeps

[hot hemlock]

No shot this dude is talkin about gbmm still 2 weeks after 7 people proved him wrong

[past oyster]

why are you even complaining about people getting pushed away by people more geared, if gear is the problem, REMOVE damage stats on ALL ARMORS and keep it to weapon and rings

[past oyster]

fr, and hes calling me insults like its proving his point right when hes just downright wrong in all situations. its really sad to see people who only agree with themselves and dont open up to anything or learn from losses

[feral prism]

I will agree, the people running over undergeared players are hella annoying, but for the moment i cant think of a valid option to fix this persides Lvl based match making
(which is what i wanted, and we got)

[silver umbra]

Leveled gear - will fix it i swear

[feral prism]

Leveled Gear? Elaborate

[hot hemlock]

Ah yes, me a new player has just found a purple out of sheer luck and survived.... maybe I should wear it? Why is everyone in insane gear all the sudden

[past oyster]

THIS

[hot hemlock]

What a way to "help the new playerbase"

[celest basalt]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/495292/pre-wipe-event Go vote thx.

[past oyster]

he about to type up yet another storm full of worthless information while being proven wrong by like 5 other people

[hot hemlock]

Oh, wow these purple gloves are terribly rolled, why am I being forced to play against avg blue kits because Gear Based Matchmaking!!!

[feral prism]

Currently the only problem i see with Lvl based MM, is the fact that you can get into a cycle of dying over and over again especially when your not doing so well
HOLD ON! WAIT
I HAVE AN IDEA!

[silver umbra]

we need ideas lets hear it

[past oyster]

"just add a weight to the different stats to prevent that" ah yes a fighter in full purple armor but all +item equip speed is going to be placed in a lower bracket with 85% damage reduction full of against new players who are also +item equip speed!!!

[feral prism]

Ok hear me out, Gold affected MM

[past oyster]

Lol he keeps typing and stopped typing he needs chatgpt to get out of this one

[hot hemlock]

Let me introduce: MULE CHARACTERS

[feral prism]

If your Lvl 15+ and you are under a gold threshold, You get placed into -15 lobbys

[past oyster]

hopefully on tuesday the game changes and we no longer have to rely on gear to beat people and implement more skill

[hot hemlock]

Trading exists so I can just keep all my gold on a diff char and still abuse matchmaking

[short heath]

I have a lot of reasons why it would be beneficial in my mind, especially compared to the current state of the game. New player retention is actually dogwater for the game currently, which plays into the longevity of the game with the current financial model that Ironmace is running with. It is actually unsustainable in its current state. If you want to read the entirety of my forum post, go for it. I'll post the link and you can read. I'm at work and posting from my phone so it's a bit tough to get out lengthy messages. Right now you have about an 80% chance in no-ante matches to run into a fully geared trio that a player or team who isn't also fully geared will have next to no chance of surviving a fight with or running away from. Buffballing, specifically the movement speed and action speed buffs, completely denies the ability for anyone who isn't also running a buffball trio to get away from a team who wants to engage onto you. As soon as you're heard, you are actually dead if that geared team wants you to be. For new players, they're going to learn nothing from that experience besides for avoid pvp at all costs, which realistically is going to do them no good, and they're eventually just going to leave (as we've already seen). If you want to prevent that from happening, you need to reduce the maximum stat differential between the lowest and highest geared players in a lobby. There are a few ways to do it, but I posted a rough outline of how it could be done below, and have elaborated and expanded on it throughout the replies on the post.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

[feral prism]

I said clear and consise, not a barly understandable wall of text.

[fast lily]

They don't need to do gear based matchmaking. They just need to make it so a geared character is still threatened by a ungeared character and skill > gear.

[hot hemlock]

New player retention is at an all time low because its the end of wipe gear running season

[past oyster]

you just yapped a paragraph and if new player retention is low, they need to make the game cheaper or free so we can get the 200k player playtest playercount again instead of this 10k everyday

[feral prism]

Once dark and darker goes on steam, there will be an influx of players, keep in mind the game isnt even out and its making good numbers

[past oyster]

this. they need to get rid of damage stats on gear so a rogue cant just run up and one shot u with +3 weapon damage on all armors and rings

[hot hemlock]

I think % dmg rolls are fine but this raw +3 phys +3 true +3 phys power shit needs to go

[fast lily]

% damage can be quite good.

[hot hemlock]

Building up 15-20% dmg is gonna be alot harder than building +30 weapon damage

[past oyster]

true

[white junco]

game is so unbalanced. I cant even stand to play anymore. either you play for 8-10 hours a day or you get shit on every round. These game types are cool but they are not made for the working class people. catered to streamers and men who live in their parents basements.....

[hot hemlock]

Its almost like its early access

Who wouldve guessed the game wouldnt be AAA quality when the longest sample size they had before EA was a week long playtest

[feral prism]

anyways, This entire thing is a non issue for the moment, Thoes geared players your talking about, the buff ball teams, you dont see thoes in -15 lobbys, In -15 lobbys you see Grey geared teams and people memeing alot. New player retention is also good for the moment as -15 Goblin caves is full of newbies atm. so no need for consern on that end.
So whats the main point that im trying to make.

These issues have already been fixed by the current match making system, the only problem that it has is the fact that you can get caught in a cycle of dying to better geared players, unable to buy better gear yourself. which if im being honest is kinda a skill issue as hiding is a very good option.

Lvl based matchmaking my beloved ❤️

[hot hemlock]

As someone who was using sub 15 lobbies to make money just via skill diff. I think it was a great addition especially with the trading being at 15 now too. This wipe it will be even better because there wont be any grandfathered in traders between 10-15 who get to buy gear to pubstomp with

[feral prism]

^

[white junco]

i hope so, but i hope they figure out a way for the casual players to keep up as well 😦

[hot hemlock]

Simply put, give the devs time. Its been a month of EA and we have had VERY CONSISTENT updates that have more or less reflected the communitys opinions on balance

[feral prism]

Maybe some type of No trade MM would work tbh. No trade lisece = +15 No Trade Lobbys

Ive seen that suggestion thrown around but it seems to confusing for new players

[wide orbit]

I have this exact same issue, I can hardly tell where the storm is on the map

[hot hemlock]

Ehhhh I dont think we should divide the matchmaking even more

As much as I enjoy ironman modes it wouldnt be healthy for a game like this.

[feral prism]

Good point

[hot hemlock]

Especially bc u can once again mule character and just drop gear to a friend who then drops the gear to you

[fast lily]

I personally think mule characters break the spirit of the game and should be against the rules/the game shouldn't be balanced around it.

[hollow ivy]

I'm happy that you are trying to make skill-based matches like before 15 lev and from 15 lev. It is fact that it is almost impossible to make it. But a lot of ppl make new account then move their item. So, match making should be like avg blue or above match (e.g. no item = 0, blue item = 5) vs under avg blue match. After 2 or 3 weeks, it should be like avg purple + vs under match. Also a lot of ranger and rouge prefer green weapon dmg bonus rather than the expansive blue+ items. So you must nurf or delete it. To keep the purpose of this new system if you want to take my suggestion. Also, you must encourage ppl to play high-roller so only the newbies can play normal games. The most common way to do that is rank and tier system. Tier wouldn't be wiped by each wipe but every 6 or 12 months. How to increase and decrease players mmr: the total value of item they got when they escape except the items they bring to the game + each kills (the player who has higher mmr will give bonus). Just in case they just hit the last hit, make sure the dmg when they actually killed. Also the party will get the same mmr increase by total mmr they got from that game/the number of party members. If someone die then decrease their mmr by fixed amount - killing mmr * 0.6~0.8 - item values * 0.5~0.1. What about this system? Also newbies don't want 18 ppl matches. They don't actually care. Some of them even prefer less ppl match game. Thank you.

[hot hemlock]

Maybe if they did somethin like Tarkov with Found in Raid gear only being tradable, it would HEAVILY impact how much "juice" gear just gets recycled over and over through trade

[hot hemlock]

Code it all and then suggest it, see how easy it is do all this

[hollow ivy]

Even a high school student can do it tbh.

[hot hemlock]

Then do it

[hollow ivy]

Are you gonna pay for it if i do that?

[hot hemlock]

Why would I pay you to code your own idea

HS can do it and they do it for free, you can too im sure 🙂

[hollow ivy]

You better get a job. You can say that cuz your parent paying everything for you. Go get a job and live your "real" life rather than making useless trouble with random ppl.

[hot hemlock]

Im actively at work currently but sure man

[spice pumice]

they have already implemented balancing of gear disparities, why not suggest something that isn't player base splitting that adds to the continuity of balancing instead of taking a player base and dividing them

[fiery lance]

So after playing fighter this wipe I have come to the conclusion that fighters are really op they just have a major gear finding advantage. WIth weapon mastery perk and the ability to wear most armor/weapons you can always equip good gear where other classes are limited by weapon/armor type. Fighter is easier to play because you have way more options, I was at times jsut wearign what ever blue+ peice that dropped in slot the basic armor/stats you get was enough to keep me going

[small furnace]

Being real, the reason you run into 80% geared teams right now is because wipe is coming up and everybody is wasting their gear, that's what I did.

[gloomy crag]

What if we remove levels?
Their only current use is perks and it is kind of annoying grinding all the characters up just to have um wiped again your only chance of getting characters to level 20 before wipe is if you no life this game.

[stiff stone]

pls make normals and goblincaves a gear rating its so not fun i just wanted to play casually goblin caves and i run in just full geared rogues and rangers who farm all ppl in lobby. there is 0 skill involved... they are the ones missing all shots but yes 1 shot is enaugh or 1 stab its so stupid and i feel like quitting the game. make it stop iron mace

[atomic yacht]

class master

[small furnace]

Really hoping gear based matchmaking doesn't become a thing. Though now I don't think it would be AS much of a tragedy as it looks like Dark and Darker has competitors that I could move to if it went into place.

[gloomy crag]

Whats that mean?

[atomic yacht]

the skill tree will use levels

[stiff stone]

maybe because ur one of the ppl who are to afraid to go highroller with good gear and rather farm no geared ppl with good gear ;D sad world

[small furnace]

It's nice of you to make assumptions but no, I'm one of the grey/white-kitted people that ends up killing geared people who misplay and walks out with a fountain of loot with zero risk to myself.

Not having those dopamine hits would be a huge hit to my enjoyment of the game, and I'd go elsewhere to find it.

[stiff stone]

hahaha yes sure dream on. u go withes and greys and clap full geared ppl hahaha

[small furnace]

Yeah? Is it so beyond your realm of enjoyment that you can't possibly fathom it? Lol, might be a skill issue on your part.

[stiff stone]

yea sure its a skill issue 😉 when u need to hit ur enemy 10 times and he hits u once 😛 just stop beeing cringe pls

[small furnace]

I'm not saying it's a fair fight, but I enjoy winning them. I'm sorry you don't ever get that same enjoyment, but I do. I'd go elsewhere to find it if I lost that enjoyment.

[stuck perch]

If you really want gear or skill based match making, hell even level based match making, go check out other DaD competitors that aren't advertising as "hardcore" you might even find some where you don't lose your equipment or where you can play solo to avoid all other players that could have a different level of gear than what you have.

[stiff stone]

i just wanted a skill based game in this environement and it just gets destroyed cause there is only fair fights in highroller right now when every 1 is geared

[small furnace]

Might be hard for you to realize but some people enjoy playing against the odds on the rare occasion that they come out on top. Sure, I don't win MOST of the time, but when I do win it feels REALLY, REALLY good. GBMM is a suggestion that basically entirely kills those experiences for me so of course I don't support it.

[stuck perch]

Skill is part of the equation, but you'll never get a 100% skill based game where you start the match with better than base loot.

[stiff stone]

but i get that some ppl have boners from going overgeared in no geared lobbys to compensate their skill like kira

[small furnace]

You're being extremely rude for no reason. I just said why I like it and you're ignoring me and strawmanning me.

[stuck perch]

So? As long as the game lets you play around them then it's fine.

[stiff stone]

you where going on me and saying that i have a skill issue cause full geared ppl clap me when i go naked...

[small furnace]

I'm saying you have a skill issue because you can't fathom the idea that someone likes winning against the odds. You call me impossible and doubt that the experiences I have even happen because you literally can't conceive of it.

[stuck perch]

That you're complaining about that does make it seem like a skill issue.

[small furnace]

You are so disconnected from the idea that it's possible to triumph against a geared team that you laugh at me and call me incredulous when I tell you I enjoy doing that.

[stiff stone]

well what is the problem to say normals max greens and higher u need highroller?

[small furnace]

Because then when I go into normals I'm not ever going to kill those blue/purple teams with capes, they won't exist. If I'm killing a dude with greens that are better than me sure it's good but it's NOT the same as killing someone who is absolutely JUICED and walking out a hero with a full set after coming in with near nothing.

[stiff stone]

its still a item different but its not like a full purple guy one hits you 😉

yes so go high roller and take all?=# you can also go grey there if u sooo good

[small furnace]

Go to highroller and pay the ante entrance fee to compete with a very low chance of survival with a grey/white kit? That's just not sustainable for me. I don't want to go in geared, I like the ungeared experiences more, sure I'll go in geared occasionally but I have 90% more fun when I'm playing with like all greys/whites and a singular green weapon or something than when I'm juiced as hell.

[stiff stone]

blablablubb

you say you wanna kill the high equipped ppl and go out as the hero to not use it then?

[stuck perch]

Several, some of which are mechanical others are more thematic. What Kira is describing is thematic, because it affects the theme that dark and darker provides, of not knowing just how geared that team in the next room over is, and how you should approach them or not. Match making would ruin a big part of that, everyone you'd meet would be on the same level as you and that makes things boring.
Mechanical issues would have to do with the infinite seperation of queues for each tier x each server x each map. If you're not geared enough or too well geared it would take ages to find a match on your chosen map.

[small furnace]

Most of the time I just sell it for gold, yeah. I mean I will go in geared occasionally but playing ungeared and winning against the odds is way more thrilling for me than just putting people down as a geared person.

[stiff stone]

and the gold u give to the poor unskilled players and not use it that makes sence my dude hahaha

[stuck perch]

This is not a fair game, and it can't be and still work. You want a "fair game" then go play fortnite,

[small furnace]

No I keep it for myself ofc and occasionally buy myself a godkit to go in with, I literally just said I go in geared occasionally. I just don't do so very often.

[stiff stone]

u just seem like exactly the guys i was complaining about who just wanna go fully stacked in normal lobbys cause to afraid to loose gear sry my dude 😉

[small furnace]

Nothing feels better than vibe-checking a dude in purples/blues that went into normals expecting to stomp people and got in over his head when you caught him off guard with an unlikely victory.

[stiff stone]

yep that is how it works especially in goblin caves

[small furnace]

I'm sorry to hear you've never had an experience like this but if that is the case I do think it might be a skill issue, and I say that with no disrespect, because it is possible even if unlikely and stacked against you.

[stuck perch]

I'm the guy who typically goes in with whites or whatever I find from the merchants, I occasionally have greens or blues but I never keep my stuff very long because I suck at the game. I rarely if ever win engagements even against poorly equiped noobs.

[stiff stone]

i got 250 hours in this game im completly juiced to the top

[stuck perch]

Then why are you advocating to add match making when we're the guys without the juice advocating to keep match making out of the game?

[small furnace]

Would you mind showing a screenshot of your stash in #dnd-content I don't mind showing a screenshot of a godkit I purchased pre-wipe to prove I am as good as I say I am but I really doubt you after all this talk of not wanting to play against geared people.

[stiff stone]

i was doing the suggestion to make it more fair if u wanna lvl a new character or just paly for fun with no risk cause its unplayable if there is a rogue or ranger in goblincaves who are stacked and i never take those gears to normals cause i like fair skilled games

[stuck perch]

But this isn't supposed to be a "fair game" and making something like that would ruin the game. I don't want to play against people that suck like I do. I want to play against random people, with random gear and random skill levels.

[stiff stone]

well every 1 got his oppinion thats why this is the suggestion and discussion channel right?

[celest pagoda]

GIVE CLERIC MORE WEAPONS

[tacit burrow]

suggestion, better anti cheat. It is rampant with rangers

[stuck perch]

Give cleric a "Holy symbol" off-hand casting focus so he can cast and smack with a 1-hand main weapon.

[proven vortex]

Exactly this

[small furnace]

Yup, the 'grab bag', exactly how I feel. Gives me the kinds of experiences that make me love this game the most.

[eager cedar]

i wish so much that the fighters SPRINT was actually affective, make it so im FAST for a couple seconds and can actually overtake rangers, wizards, rogues not still be out ran... its so infuriating

[stuck perch]

Also, gear and skill aren't the only deciding factors that dictate who will win a fight, positioning and the environment also play a roll. Despite sucking, I've been able to beat better geared opponents because I baited them into a wall spike or floor trap.

[small furnace]

Can't forget third-partying. The number one way to take down a geared team is by third partying them while they're already occupied.

[stuck perch]

Yeah, and that works in both positions, how is the other team supposed to know that the people chasing you aren't your party charging them?

Hey Kira, what would you think if they removed the triple red portals and you'd have to find individual reds instead? It would increase the chances of encountering groups smaller than 3s in the 3s maps as part of their group might have extracted leaving their allies to find those other portals,.

[small furnace]

I think that's fine as long as it's the same amount of portals. I don't think it would change all that much though, as most teams will wait till they've secured portals for the entire team before leaving. (Blues too)

[stuck perch]

Yeah that's likely to happen, but doing so also risks someone stealing one of the ones you thought you had secured.

[small furnace]

I just don't feel it would change that much. I'm not really 'against it' persay though.

It's a decent experiment for them to try if they decided to do so.

[stuck perch]

Although the same number of red portals spawning as individuals would greatly increase your chances of finding one.

I'd like to see that combined with returning the crypt map to 16 players

[small furnace]

We will have to see what they do with the whole 'combined maps' thing in the future. They said they wanna go back to maps being connected to one another.

[stuck perch]

Yeah, I've been hoping for that for awhile. I see multiple directions they could take with it, I hope they choose wisely. A lot of their choices since I've started have be discouraging.

[normal rose]

Pls fix teaming on goblin caves, it’s literally happening every game

[stuck perch]

If you're talking about in match teaming, consider teaming up with the first person you meet to counter this effect. if you mean people queuing at the same time then they're already looking at that.

[normal rose]

Wouldn’t know but that’s nots the point of playing solos tho

[stuck perch]

I would disagree, the devs also think that in match teaming is neat and shouldn't be discouraged.

[abstract swallow]

that's literally half the point of the gamemode, you're massively rewarded for doing it
if you wanted honest solo play you'd be in Crypts anyways

[limber narwhal]

Not sure if mentioned already, but maybe have a gearscore system where greens/blues/purples/legendaries have assigned gear scores, and you have a gearscore cap for normals so you're not coming across groups in full ruby/purples/legendaries that farm you with ease.

[abstract swallow]

🚫

[waxen flame]

Not sure if mentioned already :clueless:

[stuck perch]

No, gearscore systems would immediately hurt the game and also have wide ranging negative effects.

[limber narwhal]

no cap on high roller. You could still come into normals with the equivalent of all blues

[stuck perch]

Any kind of match making would hurt the game. Reduce player density so you're not tripping over players and incentivize players to move on to more appropriate content. But don't block them from sticking around.

[limber narwhal]

it's not matchmaking, it's a way to discourage 1-2 teams owning the lobby without competition

[stuck perch]

Would you enjoy waiting 30mins to 45mins for each match because the system couldn't find a match for you in your bracket?

[limber narwhal]

Like I said, not brackets, a blanket cap on normals to prevent full purple kits

[stuck perch]

Then you're punished for finding a purple item.

[abstract swallow]

all a gearcap/gbmm does is encourage people to come in with the least investment possible because they're rewarded the same but for less risk than everyone else

[inland bobcat]

if you are unsure if something has been mentioned, try going to the pinned link and using the search

[mystic yoke]

I find myself wondering what the point of building a stash and geting good gear would even be if there was no gear mismatch. It's SUPPOSED to give you an advantage, no? If everyone is always on equal footing, why look for good gear at all?

[abstract swallow]

on top of all the terrible things it would do for balance like slant martials hard into the capless/high-gear brackets (enjoy not just overpaying as a class dependent on armor, but being put up against exclusively geared counters!) and massively skew lobbies towards classes that are strongest in base kit/with burst options just like it does in that hot mess called Goblin Caves

[dense sand]

this happens already lol

[abstract swallow]

yeah, goblin caves were a mistake
the number of people I see complaining about shop rangers when they're stomped to death in geared play makes me laugh

[dense sand]

normals even before wipe was announced is filled with teams gear crutching hard when they should be moving on to harder content, aka HR, buffballl zooming around in purple+ stat stacking running down players in normals for lulz

[stuck perch]

If you want to reduce the over geared teams smashing ungeared lobbies, this is the best solution:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment544273
Note that it doesn't force people of a certain gear tier to play anywhere they don't want to, it merely motivates them to move on and discourages them from coming back, not that it's impossible to go back.

[abstract swallow]

I mean there's no reason to bother with HR or even Inferno when Crypts gives such consistent loot
just run your best gear in normals, get out in 1/4th the time, and still leave with a full inventory of people's best loot

[dense sand]

you don't see the problem there? Usually the geared teams leave with sellables and the occasional blue they lifted off a way less geared team

[abstract swallow]

it is a problem, there's just 0 incentive for them to do otherwise
at least back in PT3/4 you always had to risk it for the biscuit in true mixed queues

[inland bobcat]

what if they reduced the rarity of loot in crypts so the high roller became more worth it

[dense sand]

I think the issue in this debate that gets ignored is that people love stomping under geared enemies

[stuck perch]

Am I the only player who doesn't have much trouble avoiding buff balls or or giga-chads?

[abstract swallow]

people fixate on stand-out negative experiences more than actual trends

[dense sand]

you probably play Sao paolo at off hours hoover loot and scoot

[mystic yoke]

no, but don't bother trying to explain it to anyone. They'll just call you a sweat

[abstract swallow]

it's why rogue and ranger traps are such a constant hot topic
it's a singular point of anger they can blame, and traps especially are humiliating

[dense sand]

if you are playing US West or East and play at prime time, queue with friends in whites-blues, its impossible for you to not run into one of these uber geared lobby clearing teams

[proud trail]

can we have a report teaming option? it just seems like people drop good gear to their under 15 characters then team in free lobbies for kicks

[dense sand]

half the time if theres 2 geared teams, they team up wipe the lobby and ignore eachother

[stuck perch]

Players also love punching up and taking out better geared enemies. It's a much bigger achievement than what you'd find elsewhere.
No, I play US east/west during most time slots. Those players are in the game, I can see them as much in the lobby, I just know how to avoid them and no I don't need to play rogue to do so.

[abstract swallow]

with the new circle system it's especially easy to stomp tbh

since it's untethered from the highest traction areas if you just sweep the edge of the first circle on closing, you can hit almost every single team in the lobby

[small furnace]

Curious how you and others feel about the new circle system?

I thought it was good in theory, but in practice it has led to a wider array of spawn rng that can cause you to lose your run due to having to run across the map in a very short amount of time and being pushed into other teams. Before when it was usually center you usually had plenty of time to position yourself on the map to avoid this, eliminating a good amount of the rng.

[dense sand]

yep and if you have any kind of game knowledge you can rotate around the spawns in the first 1:30 and hear/see where the next cannon fodder team is

[stuck perch]

That comes back to people who complained about spawn rushing, back then. It's avoidable if you keep it in mind.

[abstract swallow]

the maps weren't designed for the first/second/third system, so this one just takes all of its existing flaws and amplifies them while bringing very little to the table other than freshness for its own sake

[dense sand]

I think you are intentionally blindspotting how much faster and easier a geared team moves through the map

[abstract swallow]

honestly this was one of the best parts of pre-interior spawns DaD
having to actually focus on map control and clearing was what made the game so fun and tense
I wish we could have blue crypts back and get rid of these dogwater interior spawns, it would be so much better

[stuck perch]

I'm not saying they don't. But you don't have to kill every monster and loot every chest on your way either.

[stuck perch]

Just put more obstacles to slow down lateral movement and you'd be fine.

[dense sand]

you cant outrun and out maneuver a team in the Crypts if they are in great gear and have any kind of game knowledge past 30hours of play time

[small furnace]

Well, there are some rooms where it's very likely you will take hits if you don't clear them, which causes you to have to use time clearing them. Especially in 3s where after the first person aggros the mobs it makes it harder for the 2nd and 3rd person to get through.

[granite plinth]

They need auction trade

[limber narwhal]

under the existing structure, you don't stand a chance in a normal lobby unless your whole team comes in all high stat greens or blues and a pharmacy, because eventually you're running into the cannonball team

[small furnace]

Like the big circle room with the health shrine in it, if you try to run through that you're probably getting hit by a crossbowman or an archer that isn't avoidable.

[abstract swallow]

you can clear from one side of the map to the other on any first or second layer of Crypts in under a minute, basic PvE does not hold up whatsoever to gear scaling
and it's part of the reason Crypts needs to go back to being B1

[mystic yoke]

I don't really know whats being discussed here but I do this exact thing with extreme frequency

[abstract swallow]

Crypts works a lot better when enemies take twice as long to kill and cut off routes that let you safely skip rooms

[limber narwhal]

The cap i'm suggesting is the equivalent of all blues, you can take some of them off for greens and equip a purple weapon. It just encourages people to be on somewhat of a level playing field, and the sweats can gear in all purples and brawl eachother in high roller. Right now there's no incentive to play high roller over normals for them

[dense sand]

the sweats dont want to fight eachother they want ez wins, so they should up the loot in HR and make normals have a flat cap of entering with blues but if you find any loot higehr rarity you can pop it on in there

[stuck perch]

Yeah you can. Maybe not in a straight line, but dodging mobs and closing doors behind you can make you a pain to catch. You can even run them into another geared group and have them kill each other.
@small furnace Yeah that's part of what makes route planning so interesting. How long do you spend clearing? Do you hear something nearby that causes you concern? Sometimes running away is more important than not taking a hit.

[limber narwhal]

exactly

[dense sand]

Solo in Crypts, yes this is easy to do, with a group not so much

[limber narwhal]

encourage competition not player farming

[dense sand]

meanwhile the team geared out has flown across the map 2 shotting all mobs and moving faster than most teams while doing it, allowing them to skirt the circle hit all spawns and wipe the map

[mystic yoke]

I do this with my whole squad multiple times daily... there are so many ways to slow people down, commanding the skeleton army is my favorite

[stuck perch]

If need be, your party can split into smaller groups to find each other later on.

[small furnace]

Sort of, but I really don't like the idea that from the moment of spawning, some players get an advantage and others don't. I know that's inevitable due to gear and I accept that in some respects... spawns are also never going to be 'equal' but they were hell of a lot more 'equal' back when the circle went toward mid. Now it feels like there are some spawns that are the equivalent of a death sentence if the circle goes on the far side of the map away from you.

[abstract swallow]

I'm not sure how much 'competition' you're gonna really drum up with 8 queues split across a dozen regions
part of why stomp squads are so prevalent in EU-W/US is because of how thinned out the populations are
nobody wants to play anything except their squad-size locked gamemode, and half the community is hiding/stomping in baby queues

[dense sand]

the level split queue was a bad idea, it was a bandaid for the true problem of gear crutching in normals

[small furnace]

As an example, if there are two teams in inferno and one of them gets put in the dreaded 'bat room' with the circle being on the other side of the map, that team is going to be basically forced to push into the other team... and being forced to push in inferno is a gigantic disadvantage.

[abstract swallow]

I'd be more worried if they didn't basically confirm it wasn't staying once they were more happy with gear tbh

[stuck perch]

I don't disagree, but it's a lesser concern to me compared to removing middle spawns and returning the player cap on the map to 16.

[dense sand]

the problem is the "round table" of streamers and sweats didn't want any gearscore because lobby clearing in normals while geared out optimally is good content

[limber narwhal]

Yes this-

[small furnace]

I don't disagree with that as well, at the very least it's worth a try to see if it brings the health of the game back up.

[small furnace]

There are also people like me that don't want gear score because we like the rare moments when we overcome someone with better gear and every advantage.

[abstract swallow]

at the very least it would help with every single lobby even in US-East on a weekend having a 1+ minute lobby wait

[dense sand]

queue up in HR then, easy solution with the change I proposed

[small furnace]

Was your solution 'remove the ante'?

[limber narwhal]

Taking down a team in full blues with merchant gear is still a big win

[proud trail]

I liked kenkenobis idea, butt naked que the moment you put on a green sword you are in geared que, gives people a chance to build up and practice

[dense sand]

keep the ante, up the loot drops in HR to make it worth doing

[abstract swallow]

a default kit gamemode is bot heaven, the split level queue is bad enough

[stuck perch]

honestly I'd just significantly increase the amount of time before the circle closes. The circle really isn't my favourite mechanic and the slower it is the better.

[small furnace]

Then no, I don't want to spend an ante to be at a huge disadvantage. I am okay with being at a disadvantage and occasionally I will come out on top, but I'm not okay spending 50g minimum just to have the base experience I do now.

[dense sand]

you are an outlier if you look at what the feedback has been from casual players

[abstract swallow]

feedback from casual players is largely worthless

[stuck perch]

Keep your ante if you extract, instead of losing it regardless.

[dense sand]

its how the game will continue to sell and have bodies for you to smash

[limber narwhal]

I don't think removing the ante is a bad idea if you implemented gearscore cap on normals, the risk is high enough going into high roller against teams that are decked out and the loot table is better

[small furnace]

I am not an outlier, if there were a downvote option that one with 700 upvotes on the page would have a hell of a lot more downvotes. People in this game WANT those kinds of varied experiences.

[dense sand]

so upgrading froma starter kit to all blues off an enemy player isnt enough for you

[small furnace]

That's a good suggestion but it wouldn't change my opinion about what this guy is talking about.

[small furnace]

I won't be able to do that in a lobby full of geared people. I can only do that when geared people are a bit more rare, but still present. I'm good enough to occasionally outplay someone with more gear than me, but not constantly.

[stuck perch]

No, give those casual new players time to learn the game before we listen to any nonsense that job pops into their heads because they died to a skele the third time in a row.

[inland bobcat]

idea that people may not like... durability on gear that decreases when you leave a dungeon. Also adding a way to spend gold to repair it (could put it on a timer but that might be too harsh)

doing this would eventually make the geared players have to swap out their gear, repair, ect

[dense sand]

I'm not talking about people complaining about dying to PVE, I'm talking about people dying to teams that have not only purple+ gear but stacking affixes to make their builds synergize really well and clear the lobby, I don't know how people who have tons of game time haven't seen this since the earlier playtests, I like getting good gear off of enemies too but for the health of the game the current system isn't working for most players

[stuck perch]

That and hearing players in an adjacent room shouldn't always be we're in X bracket so they're geared with Y. It could be that stomp squad or that basic gear noob trio, is it worth popping your head in and possibly alerting them to your presence?

[small furnace]

Tried to reply but the national socialist bot flagged me. I think this is a terrible idea, I do not want a durability system in this game.

[limber narwhal]

Keep the game the way it is and there won't be players for the streamers to kill anymore, agreed lol

[stuck perch]

Because players feel the effect of gear and skill factors much earlier than they learn positioning and enviroment factors and how to use them against your enemies.

[dense sand]

I think a lot of people fight the gearscore suggestion because they too also love smashing noobs who have shite gear, instead of healthy competition

[stuck perch]

Add in match making and other concessions to casuals and we won't have a recognizable game and likely not a non-p2w game either.

[inland bobcat]

yeah saw that bot flash. I'm saying make it like a small set number when exiting a dungeon, not per hit or taking hits. What if the durability just goes to a point where you can't wear it meaning that it does not break.

[dense sand]

instead they use the "I love the chance for getting purples off an enemy after I pwn them while in starter gear" arguement, which I guarantee is not what most are doing

[limber narwhal]

I have probably said 5 times now that I'm not suggesting matchmaking

[proud trail]

im not losing to people in purples its people offing gear to low lvl characters and teaming

[small furnace]

I just really, really don't like durability system. It will make people have even more gear fear than they already do, and nobody will want to bring in their best gear because it might break.... on top of that if you kill someone with a great kit you might end up with nothing because their gear is broken and you have to either spend money repairing it or just sit there with the broken blue longbow you just looted.

[stuck perch]

Any sort of dividing the player bases on anything other than player choice is a bad idea. Even then, dividing the player base on stuff that amounts to player choice isn't necessarily good either.

[dense sand]

players can choose normals or high rollers, lol make high rollers worth it and make normals not a stomping ground for bored sweats

[limber narwhal]

Agree to disagree then. I feel like based on this conversation you are one of the players that cannonballs through normals

[small furnace]

Why can't any of the GBMM people have a normal conversation without making callouts to their opponents as if they're the person who has been killing them in every lobby? Come on guys, you can be civil for a few minutes I believe in you.

[stuck perch]

Making HR worth it, amounts to player choice, preventing players from joining a queue of their choice unless they adhere to a strict gear standard isn't based on player choice.
@limber narwhal I barely have any gear and even when I do, I died to just about any player that shows up, regardless of their gear. The only thing I stomp are skeles.

[limber narwhal]

I don't feel that having a cap of all blues including a cape in normals is in any way hindering the experience for people, but 2 geared teams in purples teaming to wipe the lobby is, that's all

[dense sand]

it is exactly offering player choice but I digress

[small furnace]

Player choice until you run out of money to pay the ante that is, then you're forced into the strict system of your creation.

[stuck perch]

"Oh you have a purple cape? You can't join this lobby" isn't a player choice.

[dense sand]

if you cant afford the ante, you probably need to play normals to farm gold

[limber narwhal]

@stuck perch you can have a purple cape, but you need to make concessions on your other gear

[small furnace]

I want to play and farm normally with the chance of running into a geared person though, you suggested I go to highroller if I want that chance, and that I have the freedom to make that choice. So I responded freedom to make that choice until I run out of money to pay the ante.

[limber narwhal]

plenty of freedom to be had in arranging a kit that amounts to the equivalent of all blues, and in fact encourages thoughtful choices in the gear that you equip

[stuck perch]

Oh so players will just grab an Uber weapon, and nothing else then wipe lobbies of undergeared noobs anyways. This only makes it easier for people like that to target the lower geared players as they know exactly what they can bring to get sent to the lobby they want.

[dense sand]

like I said, upgrading from greys or whites to blues is still a great upgrade in rarity but if you want to keep pretending that you are winning starter kit fights against geared sweats, you do you

[small furnace]

Here's a funny thing that kind of throws a wrench into all this gear based matchmaking talk. An entire kit with weapon damage/additional phys rolls of greens is WAY better than an entire purple kit that doesn't have such rolls on most classes. How do you balance around that? Are we going to start having certain rolls give more gear score based on what the item property is?

[limber narwhal]

Anyone can grab an "uber weapon" from trade and make the same concessions to their other gear. At least it stops entire teams of purple geared players with uber weapons from entering

[dense sand]

we are proposing this AFTER the gear balancing patch, which is Tuesday

[small furnace]

You must have higher hopes than I do then, cause I don't feel it's going to make that problem go away entirely.

[dense sand]

who knows maybe after Tuesday we wont need GBMM, but Im doubtful

[stuck perch]

The color of an item doesn't always equate it's worth. You could have a purple item with shit stats be worth less than a green item with god stats, yet a GBMM would slot them according to color or how powerful that item could be on a totally different class.

[limber narwhal]

each point of a specific attribute can have an assigned gearscore, doesn't have to be color specific

[dense sand]

the base number value is always worth unless you are stacking affixes in your blue set and have it tuned

but like I said, GBMM only makes sense once gear is looked at and balanced more

[small furnace]

Exactly, what's better? Purple Gambeson with +2 will, +2.9% spellcasting speed, +4% item equip speed? Or a Green Gambeson with +3 weapon damage?