suggestion-discussion

[vernal hedge]

lol cry me a river xD

[civic zodiac]

since trading is allowed giving gears to low player is 100% fine with the game. theres nothing to do cuz the game itself is built around it

and quality gear is easy to get. 5$ to a gold seller and you have 2x full purple stuff. ( maybe i am exagerating but usually its super cheap )

thats why i hate trading in competitive pvp game cuz is these rats. i love SSF i always played this mode on poe for this reason

[vernal hedge]

respect to you sir, could never be me

[civic zodiac]

i do must admit they made an excellent job to restraining gold sellers with limited gold stack limited inventory high fees and gear being so easy to lose. no sane mind would keep paying for gear if the guy just bad at the game

[vernal hedge]

I forgot the name of the ssf player but dude would make the most autstic trade league build in sff(not even standard ssf) like dude would basically always have mageblood end of league, mirror worthy items, mfer was literally doing min maxed aura stackers with double corrupted jewels in ssf xD

[civic zodiac]

some peoples just know better than everyone else. i lose interest near the lvl 90 and take a 2-3 season break XD too pve to keep me entertained

[lethal laurel]

using it as a farming tool to only gear your other classes to purposely undermine the entire point of the lobby change? Thats not an exploit? You must have different dictionary than i do.

[civic zodiac]

the exploit is related to trading itself. if they make giving item bannable then it mean remove trading. its the core basic of this game even if it suck real bad. the lvl15 thing should never been a thing. if they want a real beginner protection they should add a separate level like prestige level for the whole account and put a matchmaking related to this level so people would need to purchase the game again to stomp beginners

[lethal laurel]

account labeling would be very useful agreed

[vernal hedge]

limit it to accounts with less than 100 hours if you want it for new players only lol dont make it the only way to matchmake for everyone then, imagine calling it a exploit to play the game
This game has what? 7 classes? low level lobbies are great for trolling, learning new characters and having a early wipe experience to improve for future wipes, playing with new friends or you think i should bring a guy with 10 hours to play against purple lobbies?

and yes they are great to get some money going, but guess what, its an even playing field, the exploiting is going on a lvl 1 character with 2000 gold of gear with your sole purpose being destroying low level lobbies

[civic zodiac]

giving item to lvl 1 is not an exploit. is just proove you have a small pen and no honor

[vernal hedge]

better even, connect it to the blue token bullshit, someone can get rolled and and be dogshit not extracting for 100 hours, but if they have extracted 200 times id wager they know a thing or 2 by now

[civic zodiac]

SSF mode would solve most of the problem XD

[lethal laurel]

You seem to miss the premise of it going in new level, and farming up 4k in SUPER easy lobbies, then trading once hitting the level cap to other classes, then re wiping and rinse and repeat. Thats the exploit. Not playing the game, not your snyde comments, not playing with friends, not teaching new players.

what is SSF mode?

[civic zodiac]

solo self found. no trade no drop item pickable only what u get

[lethal laurel]

oh thats neat

[civic zodiac]

if they release this game mode i know i got lots of my friend who will return to the game.

[vernal hedge]

but it isn't the decision they should take for now imo, dividing their efforts in two game modes wouldn't be effective for the games development, or they do it like in poe where they don't balance around hc and ssf but even in this case i think the focus for a year or 2 should be the deelopment and fleshing out of the core game before adding new stuff

[civic zodiac]

right now i am the last survivor or my group and still undecided if i wait the game to get better

[lethal laurel]

i mean it is early access XD

[civic zodiac]

yeah but. the game would grow more if they have mode that appeal to every1 instead of only 1 kind of player

[vernal hedge]

that not correct

[civic zodiac]

what i know is theres 12 player of my group that would still be playing of they was not pissed about purple fat chads and rogue only lobby.

[vernal hedge]

look at pubg for example, all the different variations between first person, third person, maps, solo, duo , trio, they divided their community so small regardless of being a massive game that they had to implement bots to the game to fill lobbies

this game doesnt have enoguh playerbase to start dividing itself a retain an healthy population through the wipe, even with the pre 15 lobby release ive had EUW lobbies that dont fill up in prime time which is kinda insane, not only this but it's becoming easier and easier to lobby snipe

[civic zodiac]

SSF players would be players that would not keep playing if trade is a thing. appeal different playerbase not like pubg that just dividing it

[vernal hedge]

I like to chill in discord with some guys while doing some money runs and im noticing that more a more often im getting queued in their games and need to make it an effort to now wait until everyone is in games or not queueing to avoid this

[dense sand]

def needs randomization, people def gaming the queues

[civic zodiac]

the actual purple char/ fullrogue lobby is actually the reason why playerbase is decreasing a lot also

[vernal hedge]

not necessarly, id play ssd, not all the time because I enjoy the market and inherit value of gear but would do a few runs on it daily and a lot of other people would to, that's the issue

[vernal hedge]

so you think adding ssf and lowering the ammount of people in regular normals is gonna help with less pruples in normals? quite the opposite they would be the same number but now against a smaller normal playerbase which would just escalate the problem to another level.
before differnt game modes the devs need to address the core issue of the games has and add core features which are missing like progression which is unixistent

[civic zodiac]

well. as long theres trading there will always be full purple in normal game thats peoples goal and its very fine and healthy, when you have a choice like SSF to avoid it. like someone complain you can say* just go play SSF and if the player just like trading he would instead think to himself well purple chads are annoying but i love trading more. but peoples who cant stand the unbalance will have a home. but yeah* well since the game is dying so fast cuz of this dividing the playerbase might not be a good thing. just hope they find a balance in all this before peoples lose hope and quit

[dense sand]

some of the biggest complainers are still putting in tons of time in my anecdotal experience, also lobby numbers aren't down big numbers at all

ebb and flow of population during Early Access is normal

[vernal hedge]

can you shown me something about the game dying? the number of lobby and trade seem very consistent

[civic zodiac]

just everyone around me quitting and i get very frequent 6-9 players lobby when even 1-2 week ago everything was filled in 30sec

theres no numbers like steam chart to refer so... i use what i got as info.

[vernal hedge]

which is just about when pre 15 lobbies released like i was saying.... diving the community isnt good if you don't have enough numbers

[vernal hedge]

and you can see the number of players in trade as well as active lobbies to there are some numbers

[dense sand]

you can see the numbers live based on the player search, theres barely any drop at peak times in my timezone at all

[vernal hedge]

and like PEZ said we are also kinda late into the wipe(considering the content that the game has) so it's normal that there would be a player drop specially in a season full of great game, been playing a lot of payday 3 myself, but there's starfield and plenty of ther big names

[civic zodiac]

yeah well its true. ( but fuck it i am still in the SSF side) would be a dream come true for me #changemymindgif

[vernal hedge]

no im with you on that, I want ssf too, it would be really fun and rewarding(and ill never be smart enough to play poe ssf)
i just don't want it to come at a time that it can harm the game instead of helping it grow

[civic zodiac]

i am pretty sure they already planned something like that i can believe i am not the only one who would like it. on the game release or alongside a huge update or new season that would be just perfect

and btw i mostly played hardcore SSF on poe. i like to spice things up XD

taking my time to not screw up instead of mindlessly run on everything.

[vernal hedge]

oh yah im sure it's something they have had plenty of discussions on, it's a pretty natural progression for th game specially being a more hardcore game, we have seen that either the game adds it or people will run their own mockup ssf or challenge leagues(tarkov is a good example of this)

moving topic slightly, in the onepeg video the devs mentioned about in the future how we could get enchanting of items or some other systems like this.
Do you think what a system like POE benchcrafting could work well for the game? maybe insttead of simple currencies they could require the trade-ables that monsters drop, or maybe something like harvest enchants?
edit: hc ssf , you're a masochyst but i respect you.

[granite moon]

Whats ssf ?

[civic zodiac]

i think being able to broke gear to get mats to upgrade in a non opgamebreaking way ur gear would be a sick addon to the game. especially if its stats respec wich gonna endup peoples to gear themself correctly

[elfin vigil]

Yup

[civic zodiac]

this game is designed to look like it on final let be honest

thing is i would rather have the upgradable mats and upgradable gear to become non tradable otherwise it will snowball into extreme p2w via gold seller in no time

unless its only stats respec or shit like dat

[storm blade]

For everyone that is saying game is dying you know this game would be top 50 on steam right?

[vernal hedge]

ssf(solo self found) is a path of exile "gamemode", it's like the name says, you stand alone.
there's no trade, ideally there would be no partying up but not sure how well that work for this game, basically the only trading you'd to is with the merchants

[vernal hedge]

my idea would be a bit of poe benchcraft with wow enchants if that make sense, so not everything would be untradeable because I'd like to raise the value of item like the centaur pelt which you can only get from centaurs in hell, maybe that could be used for the best flat armor rating enchat/craft

and I think following the logic of poe in ths would be good, so a benchcraft/enchat won't ever be has strong has if you got the natural roll on the item

and to this I think it would be a good gold sink if we had a way to exalt items that don't have full mods, bit of a shame when you get a blue items with 0 mods on it, or purple with 2 okay mods

[civic zodiac]

that would be sick

its kinda needed. peoples need to have a control on their gear progression and not being trade channel centered.

[gentle rapids]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493370/make-trade-actual-trading

[civic zodiac]

dafuk

[gentle rapids]

Trade is trade

[granite moon]

Ah gotcha, basically ironman mode

[vernal hedge]

yep literally ironman

[storm blade]

Well we now know who play POE and who play RS3

[civic zodiac]

i play both XD

[open marlin]

osrs*

[vernal hedge]

OSRS3, the only runescape that matters

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491649/give-warlock-kris-as-an-option-because-its-spooky

[hard meadow]

I don't even think this needs a discussion; I've seen this take a lot

[jagged flicker]

upvote pls

[gentle rapids]

Warlock only has big melee though

[granite moon]

Warlock need warhammer

[buoyant knoll]

any thoughts? https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493711/balance-changes-to-tripleshot-and-ambush

[granite moon]

Want big bonk

[bronze merlin]

since when it is rare?

[jagged flicker]

rarely if ever shows up in shops (besides goblin)

[polar remnant]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493240/distinguishable-rarity-of-items

[teal shale]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/16nmtxk/medieval_armour_vs_full_weight_medieval_arrows/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
(this is a video showing how plate actually works in accordance to arrows)

[scarlet temple]

BUFF TUMBLE OMG I LOVE THIS SKILL SO MUCH

[weary elm]

Idea for a Magic Sword skill on Wizard. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493590/give-wizard-a-magic-sword-skill

[clever tangle]

Pleeaaase add a marketplace. Dont want to spend half my day with trading

[weary elm]

I think there are auction house suggestions on the site. I recommend upvoting them my friend. We might get lucky.

[pale dust]

Tumble should have a couple iframes honestly. It’s pointless otherwise.

[scarlet temple]

nah i mean it def need i.f. but it isnt useless, rangers/wizards + throwables dont hit me since i can spam it and use it out of double jump

[pale dust]

Ahh well that’s a smart way to use it for sure. But yea it could use some tight iframes. Because at the moment anytime I’ve seen a rogue use it you can just press w on them for the most part lol. But it has so much potential to be dope af.

[polar vale]

why cant we store arrows/bolts in our stash? could this change? make it like potions, the ones we get by default cant.

[scarlet temple]

yeh i spend more time running away and rupture throwing knives not meta or super reliable but the flex is real

[twilit crater]

this is a cool idea tbh and i bet they are working on something pretty similar, or at least have ideas for something like this

[weary elm]

I'm glad you like it. Appreciate it.

[void scarab]

I personally still would like to see some type of training/practice grounds. This would allow players to try move sets, skills, gear combos, and the chance to get to know their class prior to jumping into a dungeon. This would also allow players to connect directly with GMs on any issues when working out power balances and etc. @keen onyx

[ivory axle]

I saw someone suggest something about purple and higher gear only being able to be used and found in high roller. Does anyone have a similar opinion on that?

[mellow glen]

My only problem in this game is atm armour dont scale so well Mobility vs PDR is too big / u could get scale armour easly u should get 50% PDR easly in just white full plate mail ..... for now its only slow u down ... maybe add somethng like sets ? like full cloth set give additiona 10% PDR while leather is 20% and full plate mail is 30% even if u uses all white gray items . you can make it separate roll so there wont be hell with 75%-100% PDR . like if u have already 20% PDR from armour rating and u get 20% from Leather set its separate roll like ( 100 dmg is deal then u do 20% PDR reduction from armour rating so its 80 dmg then after this u count 20% for leather set so its 20% from 80 so its - 16 so 64 dmg

[ivory quartz]

Damn @jagged flicker another fucking top tier suggestion.

[void scarab]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493754/training-grounds-practice-area

[cloud iris]

This game needs a permadeath option that is selected at character creation (with benefits for opting in, e.g. permanent +5 All Attributes)

[golden coral]

Would it be possible to buff altars of sacrifice by automatically equipping the resurrected player with whatever gear their corpse still has on it? I've always felt like once a player dies, there is realistically no hope for them unless there is a cleric with revive prepared.

3v3s often feel like a lose-lose because even if you wipe the enemy team, one or two of your party is dead and you lost gear anyways.

Also, it would be nice if the altars of sacrifice created an icon on the corner of the mini map telling the surviving party members where they can go to revive their friend, a mechanic present in a lot of games with battle royal mechanics. Apex does it very well.

[ivory axle]

If they want to slow the game down I honestly think to remove weapon damage on armor

[gentle rapids]

The meta is stinky af so good on you

[gentle rapids]

Would be nice, but this game isn’t apex

[golden coral]

This game is not apex. I'm not suggesting it to be apex. I'm describing a well implemented mechanic in another game that would improve my experience playing this game. It was a suggestion posted to a suggestion discussion

[gentle rapids]

Yeah the discussion is that I don’t think it would fit in this game, but I admitted it would be nice to have

[golden coral]

Sorry it's hard to detect tone in these discussions. I was sassy because I felt sassed-out. I have autism.

[gentle rapids]

Thats ayt, i expect that kind of response on the internet anyway

[muted nova]

would anyone disagree with IM making their anticheat ring 0?

[red urchin]

Anybody got the suggestion for making the game ssf and removing trade?

[tranquil plaza]

That is a good way to kill a game

[vernal hedge]

most common anticheats are ring 0 afaik so i doubt it'd make much a difference

[earnest remnant]

Ye stupid suggestion

[red urchin]

Other opinions are OK. I don't mind

[earnest remnant]

This game for having anti cheat a bit working : server side logic checks of what is happening in a lobby

[vernal hedge]

excuse me sir, should I call an ambulance because that message reads as if you're having a stroke xD

[muted nova]

yeah but they get to spy on your pc

[vernal hedge]

already installed their game so if they wanted to be malicious they could, as long as they don't make it like Vanguard or wtv the name of valorant's one is im mostly fine

[muted nova]

yeah vanguards is kernel level, so it runs as soon as you press the power button

[vernal hedge]

yep

[muted nova]

I mean its good to detect cheats but requires that level of trust of the company

[dense sand]

its kernel level and has already been circumvented lol

[south topaz]

Not as you press the button, but as windows loading its drivers, which is right after when windows boot manager loaded and loads the windows boot image.
Which you can already see where the attack can came from.
Still better than StarForce where it plays with your DVD drive frimware, which at this point you might as well as call it CHI because it is the same as tampering your computer bios

[muted nova]

bruh

[earnest remnant]

Oh shit you stumbled upon someone whos first language isnt english. I think call the police as well

[tepid zenith]

Add an API so i can make a player stats website

[fresh wyvern]

What do people generally think about adding durability in to gear and weapons?

[vernal hedge]

neither is it mine but you don-t have to feel offended that was a joke, im actually interested in knowing what you meant there

[earnest remnant]

Strange way to ask. It looked like someone is making fun of someone else.

[south topaz]

Well, just got destroyed by someone with 2 +3 all att gears.
Fun, why did they not make those gear slowly drops back to +1?
One bard managed to slaughter 8 people in normal crypt.

[hasty agate]

What do yall think of invis having some sort of shimmer or wavey appearance. Like halo style

[glossy totem]

add hell portals on ruins map!

[fast lily]

imo boring. I'd rather see new item sinks be added. Like being able to destroy an item to get a random stat as a 'rune' and being able to apply it to a white weapon to essentially add crafting while also removing items from the economy generally.

[worldly ridge]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493871/give-rogue-shroud-of-concealment-from-wow

[muted nova]

that's what I asked too, something to sink gold into. Like maybe pay x gold to boost the lobby or something

[modern ibex]

Only works if it's very subtle. When was the last time an invisible elite ran at in in halo and you didn't immediately pick him out of a crowd? Especially in Dark and Darker where people are constantly keeping there eyes and ears peeled for players I don't think this would work at all

[muted nova]

I mean I don't like that, if you are invisible you should be invisible for those 30 seconds

[fast lily]

Shimmer is lame, reason is that unlike invisibility it's far easier to implement cheats for it.

Here is my suggestion for more invisibility counterplay: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493528/make-torcheslanturns-reveal-hidden-players

[worldly ridge]

the counterplay to invisibility is having a headset because crouch walking is still loud and gamesense/awareness because more often than not a Rogue room will have chests looted and enemies dead.

[muted nova]

like it shows their shadow or straight up ghost busts them?

[worldly ridge]

if you get snuck up on in invisibility it's literally because you weren't paying attention. it's very easy to know a Rogue is stealthed somewhere near you.

[fast lily]

I like the idea of shadow, I didn't think about that. That'd be really cool.

[bitter mist]

or he can just run straight to you pop invis to proc perks and kill you anyway

[worldly ridge]

if he does that he's literally just a free kill 1 or 2 headshots to the head he's dead lol

most of the time it's 1 cause with gear its just 1 shot meta

[bitter mist]

well if you will live long enough to 2 shot him then fine

[worldly ridge]

rogue cannot facetank if he's not sneaking up behind you he should just die instantly

unless ur just bad and whiff ur hits or you're playing a caster like wizard

[earnest osprey]

Ironmace. Do you guys have any idea which direction you are going with this game? Because it seems like you guys are just winging it. Without any idea of where the game is going. You nerf everything and anything. Trying to Make fights last longer. But keep the timers the same in dungeon. You change the circle locations just to have portals spawining in walls. You go from 0 gold entry to 50 gold entry to now 150 gold entry to the high roller lobbies. Bard has gone from a meme to broken to unusable to decent back to a meme. Like what are we even doing here? You release leaderboards while people still cant connect to your game. You make extreme changes to metas in the game. multiple times during leaderboards. Are you trying to kill your game before you even give a full release? Smh.. get it together.

[bitter mist]

he can still 1-2 tap green fighter with base dagger

playing rogue is like using a tank in medieval battles

[tranquil plaza]

just nerf weakpoint+ambush combo and rogue is fine

[hallow acorn]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492021/dwarfgoblinhalfling-race-lowered-headshot-increased-limb-damage-multiplier-trade

[rigid prawn]

Leaderboard players are frustrated and I agree to an extent that it’s justified since massive meta changes can flip the board on its head as things get patched out of viability, that being said you could look at the current leaderboards as placeholder test bed, meaning it’s actual importance is low for the devs. They have stated in the past that leaderboards were a temporary thing as well, but as far as balance swings that’s just part of the process to getting this game in a good spot.

Try to avoid getting attached to current systems since absolutely everything is subject to change, nothing is safe from that. If they decide to take things away or give things to classes, it’s with some intention and assuming otherwise is just bad faith.

[stark wave]

all they have to do is when you get to level 15 you automatically get put into high roller and only play in high roller

[bitter mist]

please add fucking dwarfs i will just mine and never fight again

i will sit in goblin caves i will never ever come here again i will just mine add dwarfs

[earnest osprey]

I can understand what youre saying. But the general public isnt going to look at it the way you see it. And we are losing numbers as a player base. In this day in age. People have very short attention spans. You cant just keep making major changes to the game every week. If you do that.. people who put forth efforts into working a character up. Just for it to get nerfed into the ground. They will lose motivation to play the game. The numbers are showing that. I'm also not speaking for myself. Since I have everything leveled up all the way except warlock. You cant put out leaderboards and then say... "well they are only temperary and do not take them seriously." And expect people who want to leaderboard farm. To not take it seriously. The game has just come out. as a company and a business.. you have to make the numbers go up. Not bleed them until you have only a small community left

[hallow acorn]

i support the energy of this man... 🦾

[bitter mist]

also when adding them make it so you can hide in big chests because you are small

[hallow acorn]

Here is another suggestion of mine, i leave it up to you, people of the internet, to decide if it is any good...
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492066/dynamic-npc-vendor-prices-affected-by-market-value

[hallow acorn]

maybe it will be a Race Perk in a future...

[bitter mist]

Imagine that you walk into a room and there is an untouched golden chest, you looted some lockpicks earlier so why not just open it. and after finally opening it, instead of loot you see a dwarf that is starting to smash you with war maul bigger than him

[meager cloak]

Something should really be done about how much flaming and spamming is happening in general chat. It doesn't go 5 seconds without spam or toxicity.

[bitter mist]

that's what general is for, all apes go there and normal people discuss here

[meager cloak]

even if I spam or flame, mute my ass for an hour. i deserve it

[rigid prawn]

That’s why I said I understand the frustration, but at the same time people should be more aware of what they are spending their money on. The EA came from massive community demand, people wanted access to the game for more than 1 week a month, but that doesn’t change the fact that this game is in active development. Bringing the mentality that the game should be playable/ balanced and the devs shouldn’t actively hotfix is short sighted since the whole purpose of opening up the game is for testing purposes.

Regardless of whether you bought the game to strictly play it or not, your still generating data that they can analyze and use, your a tester first. Curbing expectations to understand that this is the case will help put a lot of the people in the right mindset, and losing numbers at this point is not only expected but a good thing. The devs have already stated that the EA numbers are massive compared to what they were expecting and once a lot of the riff raft moves on, what’s left is people that genuinely want to help with the game’s development.

The game won’t die because of dropping players, it’s actually going to help its development

[earnest osprey]

yes. it will help the developmen to game. But at the possible cost of killing the games pop. A game can have a good community at a 20k concurrent player base. With all the hits to the pop from the legal battle. And not being on steam anymore. We went from over 100k players online. To about 18k on average. With the population in that state. You have to be very careful with what you do. They shouldnt have released the game to the public and kept it in play tests. Then the public would be more understanding to the radical changes. Then you can get the data you need.. without killing your player base. But to drop in over 75% of the playerbase before the release of the game. With the remanding numbers. You should be walking on egg shells. Making more thought out moves with the game. especially if you release the game. Yea you can say early access... but every game now in days is in early access. For years at that. So thats not going to be a good thing to lean on when it comes to the general public. Imo I think they should slow down with the changed to the game. Like every other week instead of every week. Orrr come up with a staging branch server. So people can test changes to games. And the devs can get an a answser to if the changes are worth it or not. Before actually changing the game istelf. The thing is... majority of gamers do not look at patch notes. Do not keep up with the direction of the game. They just play the game. You have to attend to those type of peoples needs. Because even though i personally dont like the casual gamer. But they are a big part of what makes a game successful or not. You have to attend to those peoples needs while not kiling the game for your core gamers as well. Its a delicate balance. But the direction we have been going since release. It have been counterintuitive to keeping the numbers on an incline

[cerulean kestrel]

When 70% of the playerbase is playing a single class out of 8 there needs to be a hot fix

[earnest osprey]

lol 70% of the pop playing one class? where are you getting those numbers bro? lmao!!!!!!

[small furnace]

Welp, I'm not touching rogue anymore. hahahaha

[summer crystal]

i agree that they botched the launch. A single player/PVE-only mode should've been absolutely in the game before deciding to ask customers for money. They may have become overzealous from the incredible turnout for the playtests and their hubris led them to launching the game too early (despite it's early access status).

[earnest osprey]

if they needed the money to keep the game going. I could understand the early access. Its just.. they have to be a little more careful moving froward

[bleak dagger]

finally rogues got what they deserve

[small furnace]

This is way too much of an overnerf, but it's whatever. I'm just not going to play rogue anymore.

[feral jay]

No way Ironmace just deleted rogue from the game LUL

[next pebble]

when i said remove rogue i didnt know theyd take it seriously

[valid atlas]

LOVE TO SEE IT

[scarlet temple]

tumble didnt get buffed ya hate to see it

[rigid prawn]

Concerns of the image of EA from past experiences is valid, but let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. EA is exactly what this environment is for, constant public testing. Other AAA games getting unfinished releases and other companies abusing the EA tag is one thing but we have to look at the objective truths here. The casual gamer that bought this game with the intention of playing a finished/polished product are the ones I. The wrong here, the devs aren’t responsible for people spending their money without understanding what they were buying. The game has never been advertised as a finished product so shouldn’t be viewed under that lens. Just because people are leaving doesn’t mean they won’t come back at a later date. In fact, wipes and content release will inevitably increase the player count for a while as people will want to see what’s changed.

My main message is that doom posting that the games going to die at this point is just silly, these are natural growing pains of an actual EA game and we will see the light at the end of the tunnel eventually. These devs seem competent based on the game we’ve gotten so far and although some people may disagree with their adjustments as of late it matters little in the grand scheme. Feedback is important and they seem take it seriously but they also have an idea of what they want the game to be and they need time to realize it.

It’s a game of patience, and some people severely lack in that front

[daring trail]

How long after patch is it until we hear about rogues being busted still?

[rigid prawn]

If anything the patch notes they just posted support my claim that they listen! Rogues changes are pretty fierce!

[granite moon]

but but but rangers make me cry :(

[small furnace]

I think rogues being killed this hard is going to affect the balance of the game pretty terribly. Rangers, Wizards and Bards are going to get a lot stronger since Rogue was the squishy-annihilator class and has essentially been killed.

I do hope they don't go around nerfing everything in the game to compensate, that's going to be really boring if so.

[earnest osprey]

yes what should be is not what is though. It doesnt matter who is in the right or wrong. All that matters is if the game grows or dies.

[daring trail]

With them wanting to slow the game down, i can see more nerfs before buffs honestly

[small furnace]

Everything getting nerfed is just going to be so boring though. It's gonna get old real fast.

[rigid prawn]

And the game will grow, pop will fluctuate over that time period as well, this is par for the course man, don’t sweat it

[daring trail]

It still feels like they are way too heavy handed with any balance changes.

Its so hard to find out what actually is the 'problem' when you just slap a class out of existence

[dense sand]

lol all I read is "rogue main is emotionally devastated"

[daring trail]

I'm sorry you dont know how to read

[dense sand]

what are those hieroglyphics you replied with?

[small furnace]

I'm not a rogue main, I'm a ranger main so this change benefits me extremely heavily since rogues were one of the only counters to ranger.

That being said I really, really think they went too hard on this nerf. They could've chosen a couple aspects of rogue to nerf but they basically killed every good thing about the class. I'm sure they will revert some or half of it, but it's just genuinely awful.

[fresh wyvern]

Rogue is no where near useless even after the patch. Still gonna be a lot of them, they just have to play a slightly bit better now. That’s all.

[dense sand]

[small furnace]

"Slightly better" They are lowering dagger damage, removing the extra damage from one of their skills and causing it to do less than the use case that it did. They are forcing you to take another perk slot if you want to hide, making you move slower with less agility...

This is a lot more than 'slightly better' if a rogue jumps me now I'm just going to pull out my arming sword and kill him for free every time, because he has no way to do more damage to me than I do to him at close range, even with my bow out.

[earnest osprey]

its not part of the course. youre talking to me like havent playing games since ultima online. I had someone say some of the same things youre saying about new world. and i was right on the money with the direction they went. with the way the game is going. its not going to grow numbers

[fresh wyvern]

Not with backstab. They actually have to play right instead of just hitting you anywhere for a free kill

[small furnace]

You mean the perk where my counterplay is to just look at my target? They get one hit with 30% extra damage if they're lucky, wow, what a great perk.

[shrewd ledge]

nerfed it too hard rouge was too high dmg low hp now its low damage and low hp, you can play better if your attacking slower doing less damage and take less hits now. and you cant even just the jump on people as often now. play it see how it feels.

[sand hound]

if you get jumped by the rogue, unless you are wearing heavy plate, you will still die, it will take just 1-2 more hits lol

[small furnace]

In my experience those 1-2 more hits are usually the difference between the rogue surviving. They only get a hit or two off in the first place before I start fighting back.

[sand hound]

I think you will still die, sure maybe you can get a hit on him, but your allies will now have a chance to kill the rogue (before they killed you so fast no one even saw him)

[small furnace]

If that's what you want to believe then sure, but the only reason they could kill me before was because of their elevated damage numbers, and those are gone entirely now.

[valid gazelle]

Rogue hide should be for a long time, but with caveats. Let's say the hide lasts for 5 seconds, but everystep of the 10 you have gives you another 5seconds in the hide. That would be a good way to keep the rogues kit and make them vulnerable for players to be aware that there are invisible steps in the room

[shrewd ledge]

nerf would be good if they just removed ambush entirely and got rid of 50% damage on the weakness attack, i think they way over did it. unless your running purple daggers it feels like your hiting with a wet noodle

it prob will get buffed overtime, but for now rouge is a very unenjoyable experience.

[small furnace]

They also just reinforced that rogues need to use rapiers now too.

[shrewd ledge]

ehh i dont agree with that i think daggers are still better pvp vs rapipers for pve

[lone crescent]

Rogue was OP lol

A grey Castillon takes half hp from a full purple Barbarian/Fighter

Green Castillon was enough to take down a orange player

[inland geyser]

3 biggest changes they could make to slow down the game but increase outplay & class diversity

• Lower recurve and longbow damage to bring triple shot burst down and increase viability of survival and recurve
• Give rouges wizard invis so its a short cooldown but they can make bigger flank plays in team fights
• Take all barb francisca away so they only have explosives and laterns to zone people towards them

[earnest osprey]

cap af

[shrewd ledge]

khan with ambush it was dum but it wasnt that strong, you needed a blue dagger to 3 shot any class and even with a blue it still took like 3-4 on barbs with full headshots

[small furnace]

Isn't it good that we had ways to deal with high geared players that didn't involve getting that gear yourself? People talk about how gear disparity is so terrible but you're acting like a rogue getting the full jump on someone who has much higher gear than them they shouldn't have any chance.

[daring trail]

before this change, Epic stilletos were at 24 damage lol.

Add in the ambush nerf, weakpoint nerf. I dont think rogues can kill a fighter with plate anymore, not without 10 stacks of throwing knives and pretending to be a ranger

[shrewd ledge]

that is very class dependent but thats how classes are built

[lone crescent]

I never said that, it's just that ambush from a green dagger had more dps than a geared player

[stuck perch]

I get nerfing the weakpoint+ ambush combos, but why nerf the base dagger damage, or the stealth duration to 15s or less?

[pliant dagger]

Finally rogue are where they belond just use rupture instead of weakpoint attack the broke build is finally patched thank you @keen onyx

[shrewd ledge]

raipers do simular damage and attack slightly slower also the 5 aglity nerf hits hard

[small furnace]

It sure did, and that was Rogue's identity, they were a burst class. Now they're pretty much nothing.

[stuck perch]

They're a joke, so they can now thematically take the jokester perk.

[lone crescent]

That's not true, now you need similar gear to get the same power

[pliant dagger]

Rogue is still very strong just use a rapier with a rupture stil will rekt

[abstract swallow]

The nerf to dagger base damage is because IM is starting to clock onto faster weapons scaling better with flat damage stacking.
A Rogue in just all +1 True/Weapon could skyrocket DPS and HTK.

[lone crescent]

From when Franciscas are an issue?

[small furnace]

You need similar gear to play as a fighter that has lower phys resist and an invis pot skill that requires you to take 2 perks to be viable? Like... okay I guess?

[pliant dagger]

Exactly they had too much of x2 damage then ambush then back attack then weakpoint took no skill to play rogue now its gonna take skill to play the class

[stuck perch]

Why don't they scale flat damage off of weapon speed then instead of making bases kit hell to play with?

[shrewd ledge]

base kits are ment to be hell

[lone crescent]

Try stacking weapon damage and true damage and see it for yourself

[pliant dagger]

Because people stack weapon damage Item of + to all attributes would kill someone in 2 dagger hit.. really not fair

[stuck perch]

Alright, that's a scaling issue, don't nerf the base stats but rather the scaling.

[abstract swallow]

That is a valid alternative to flat damage, but still leads to similar exploitable scenarios if you can stack it on different gear, just with a different type of weapon.
The issue is damage stacking, not the weapons themselves, though it's a decent band-aid fix in the interim until we have a real gear-generation like Diablo's item affixes.

[small furnace]

The patch just came out... I already did that before I knew what it was like. I'm sure you can still be halfway viable as a nerfed rogue but why would I do that when I can just play fighter and use an invis pot? I'd have more damage with the option to get more PDR and I'm not a squishy that dies in 2 hits.

[lone crescent]

Rogues had more dps than a Barbarian without ambush if geared

[pliant dagger]

Nope because dagger do 3 attack per second make the dps calcul purple dagger were too strong

[lone crescent]

Cause you have double dps compared to a Fighter

[daring trail]

Way to cherry pick lol, a geared barb is literally one shotting everyone to the face - his dps is irrelevant when its just a 1 shot kill

[shrewd ledge]

thats not true

[formal forum]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493921/clerics-should-not-use-plate-armor
Whatu guys think about this?

[small furnace]

Post nerf? How so?

[pliant dagger]

Nope since when in any game cleric wont wear plate armor ?? bad suggestion

[shrewd ledge]

in case you havent noticed your supposed to have more dps then a fighter and they build armor instead of damage yet we still compete in damage post nerf almost even

[formal forum]

Clerics and Paladins are different classes

[lone crescent]

@small furnace take a 30 damage castillon, stack 15 weapon damage it becomes 45 and you deal like 3 attack in a second

[graceful ivy]

They didn't need to nerf rogue, they need to remove weapon damage add because it scales the best on rogue.

[lone crescent]

You still have way more dps as a Rogue, even after this nerf

[shrewd ledge]

your talking full legenednary and purple if you go aginst another full leg and purple you aint doing shit to them with 75% armor plus weak nerf

[daring trail]

This, this, and more this.
The gear need to be balanced, the rolls are too high. Anyone with a +weapon/true builds are doing wayyy to much damage. This is not exclusive to rogue

[rich cypress]

We won chat rouges no longer 3 shot full plate fighters

[graceful ivy]

not exclusive, but rogue does scale the best off from it.

[graceful ivy]

Yes your white full plate

[daring trail]

Id argue wizard scales the best off +damage tbh

[graceful ivy]

Rogues attack way faster than any class in game

[daring trail]

Give wizard +7 True magic in his build and hes one shotting anyone with FB. 2-3 zaps

[shrewd ledge]

now we are complaing about gear diff every class dose this, just in diffrent ways thats a problem thats unsolvable unless your deleting colored gear from the game.

[grim pivot]

Delete rogue since its not getting played anymore anyway

[small furnace]

I have agreed with rogue nerfs in the past but this is too far. If the message Ironmace wants to send is: "Don't play rogue" then well done, message received because I aint gonna touch it again after this.

[flint goblet]

Good

[rich cypress]

Magic missiles in high gear lobbies melt anything

[lone crescent]

You build a Rogue in STR, reach the same hp as a Barb and get double the dps + invis/ambush and weakpoint

My double the dps argument is true if you don't consider ambush and weakpoint, if you consider them it's even more

[daring trail]

There is many things you could do with gear.
Instead of having 3-4 stat rolls, you could keep white armor the way it is, have green armor give you a guaranteed base stat instead of a random roll. Give blues another base stat and 1 stat roll, but LOWER all +damage across the board.

I think you also have rogue on your mind too much, this is a problem across the board, not just rogue or whatever class you think is busted

[rare sparrow]

they should have just removed weakpoint from the game and not even replaced it instead of doing what they did to it

[lone crescent]

Take number, a starting Barb will do ~87 on dummy in hs while a Rogue deals 66 with 3 hits, no Ambush, no Rupture, no Poison and no Weakpoint

[rich cypress]

Weak point was a straight 40% damage buff pre nerd

[rich cypress]

But late game rouge destroys barb

[lone crescent]

If you start adding other dps sources and better gear the power creep becomes insane

[stuck perch]

Then nerf it, not a thousand and one things at the same time.

[feral jay]

They just need to remove the HP scaling off strength and make a constitution stat that gives defenses so you don't have 130+ HP rogues / rangers that are also doing 80+ damage per hit

[empty valve]

Yo guys we heard that everyone was tired of ranger / cleric meta... so we nerfed rogue

[stuck perch]

No they need to increase the scaling on strength. 130HP rogues is still squishy with their low PDR and MDR.

[shrewd ledge]

ahh i said its a problem with every class, i dont think that colored gear needs to be changed, there are good purples and garbage purples. balancing gear isnt really a realistc souloution as its will always be a problem no matter what they do. i think rn the gear is fine.

[lone crescent]

That's my point, a base Rogue has more dps than a basic Barbarian and the gap will become higher with gear, yes Barb builds for oneshot, But Rogues needs 4, this means that in a direct fight if the Barb fails to oneshot the Rogue (or if the Rogue dodges) then he is dead

[feral jay]

They need to gut ranger its the least interactive class to go against and always feels bad to play into no matter who you are

[rich cypress]

Unfortunately barbs are just a bit bad overall right now without the major buff ball meta if you miss once you die

[daring trail]

In no world is a purple with +3 str, +3 weapon damage, and +3 true physical damage "balanced"

It makes certain classes completely busted, now every piece of gear you have has those stats.
That would make any melee char very tanky, and also do a disgusting amount of damage.

[shrewd ledge]

thats fair though, one shot for one shot. plus horseman axes exist.

[lone crescent]

This is true if you don't consider ambush and weakpoint and back attack, cause if you start adding those skills and perks the power creep is insane

[rich cypress]

Rouges have some of the best perks/skills in the game

[lone crescent]

The same statement is true even for Fighters

[empty valve]

Rogue was really strong, and needed some nerfs. But why on god did they buff cleric while hitting rogue hard -- and not touching other classes

[feral jay]

Ranger is generally a miserable class to fight, I've seen people and lost myself full blue sets with decent rolls to a ranger with a white / green longbow potting me across a room or 100 - 0ing me out with a triple shot before i can even get within 10 feet of him

[stuck perch]

But the Is that meta still going? Accelerando isn't worth taking on Bard like most of their other buffs. It's self buff only and go swing that falchion rather than anything else outside of niche situation.

[rich cypress]

Two handed fighter is dead right now

[shrewd ledge]

idk, about that no matter how many times i hit some fighters they dont die

[rich cypress]

Buffball meta is still a thing but it was wayyyyy worse before

[lone crescent]

Barbs need like 5 felling axe headshot to kill a Fighter lol

[stuck perch]

Funny enough I keep holding on to that spell to remove buffs but I never see any buff balls to use it against.

[rich cypress]

Now you're kinda trolling

[lone crescent]

If they have 70%+ PDR

[shrewd ledge]

thats real if its a 75% and you have no armor pen

[agile gulch]

SO, recap on rogues:
cant really take a hit, so cant fight straight up
if in crypts with a team cant hide for very long so cant really ambush/flank without being oneshot
now nerfing their damage so they can even further now not do sh**
nerfing their agility so its more dificult to run away from a bad decision
"hey guys, rogues are super op, lets nerf them some more"

[daring trail]

Why when you speak of your main class, do you not mention any of its armor pen or extra damage lol

[lone crescent]

But people seem to think it's a Rogue's thing to deal low damage to a Fighter

[agile gulch]

They are now, a walking lockpick. congrats.

[stuck perch]

Let's also nerf their damage on all sides instead of just on a select few abilities.

[rich cypress]

With a good kit you are going to be doing over a shit ton of damage to head and should be able to 2 shot them

[agile gulch]

already mentioned them nerfing the dps too

[agile hedge]

🇳 🇪 🇷 🇫 🇧 🇦 🇷 🇩

[daring trail]

Reckless Attack
Next hit ignores 70% enemy defense. Self -75 armor rating. You one shot fighters

[shrewd ledge]

you need armor pen on your stuff to do that, simple as

[feral jay]

Bard is already getting a full rework lmao

[rigid prawn]

@earnest osprey Apples to oranges dude, new world was a full release with EA problems. Duping ruined the economy overnight and because it wasn’t an EA game people were rightfully pissed off when they started to resets and merges. Just saying it’s totally fine to be angry at large companies abusing the definition of a release ready game but another to hold a company that’s made it clear that the game is a WIP and is not representative of the final product in the slightest. If people want to blindly spend money on a game expecting to play something polished it’s on them, and if they decide to leave then at the very least they gave money to the devs. These devs are building this game while under attack from Nexon I don’t think that a drop in player count down to a more reasonable and expected amount is the silver bullet your making it out to be. I’m not diminishing your experience with this kind of thing but I can’t agree that your point is valid.

[lone crescent]

Reckless with -55 AR is bad, a Falchion headshot in that condition takes 3/4 of your hp

[shrewd ledge]

you need armor pen on your stuff to do that simple as, and a decent chunk of it too. play high level barb vs fighter and see.

[rich cypress]

People saying rouge wasn't broken like if a rogue was somewhat in your vicinity when they are hiding it's an instant kill is wild

[daring trail]

But you have the option to one shot fighters, you just dont take it? then you complain about fighters?
Thats like a rogue NOT running ambush and complaining they dont do damage
lmfaooo

[ripe turtle]

Alright since the Bard is getting nerfs once again (especially for recovery), I have made this new bard song suggestion. Please leave a vote!

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490509/hippocratic-salvation-bards-new-song-suggestion

[agile gulch]

"oh boy, let me grab my blue gear with armor pen and damage/stat buffs I grabbed from my last run. Oh wait, I died because I got cornered and hide ran out. hahahahahahah"

[rich cypress]

So what you are saying you need a good kit to be able to counter a high armor class that sounds normal

[shrewd ledge]

i dont see anyone aruging that, but what they doing now is overkill.

[lone crescent]

Bro I'm not complaining about Fighters, I'm complaining about Rogues complaining about Fighter's like it's a Rogue thing to have trouble killing a PDR fighter

[tender ether]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493921/clerics-should-not-use-plate-armor vote plis nerf clerico used plates

[rich cypress]

Rouges absolutely destroyed fighters pre nerf

[shrewd ledge]

no you need perfect gear vs decent gear, good fighter is great counter for barb, such as they way they intended for the game to be balance.

[mild lion]

Feel like Rogue needed different nerfs than just numbers, although numbers are a good place to start. Make more of their burst damage conditional to being behind a target, make hide's effectiveness greatly depend on how bright a room is, etc. Rogue gameplay should be difficult/patient to get into position and reward flanking from that position, and it should be clearer when there might be a danger of a rogue nearby by the presence of darkness. A rogue vanishing in front of you to get a damage boost seems silly.

[rich cypress]

Then what is the problem

[agile gulch]

Barbs can 1 hit most classes with the right gear. without ever getting below half health.
yet rogues are shat on.
my barbarion character has chronic "full stash" syndrom. and with the recent updates, im afraid its terminal

[lone crescent]

If you want the same power just take daggers mastery

[rich cypress]

Rouges shouldnt just be dodge one hit and hug enemy until they die

[daring trail]

Well i mean with these changes rogues will have issues with fighters. I imagine rogues just have to avoid fighters in plate at this point, since they will get 2 shot, but need to get off 6-8

[shrewd ledge]

there isnt one, i was just repleying to your statment that you didnt beleive that it takes 5 headshots to kill a fightert

[agile gulch]

There is no class, other than rogues, that rogues can kill now.

[rich cypress]

I still really don't from what I've seen in game

[daring trail]

Well, im sure a rogue will still kill an unsuspecting wizard or ranger

[shrewd ledge]

true but most classes almost one shot rouge aswell hes a class cannon.

[ivory quartz]

They just did buddy

[mild lion]

agreed 100%. But once sound is fixed and other changes are in rogues should have a major advantage if they get behind you, but getting behind you shouldn't be so easy.

[small furnace]

Wizard maybe, but rangers have access to decent melee weapons and rations.

[mild lion]

I've been playing warlock and a brown staff BoC puts them in one-hit range of nearly anything else if the blow doesn't straight up kill them.

[agile gulch]

ah yes, let me use my 20 second hide ability and ambush the wiz-oh he casted light. let me see if I can out dps this rang- oop Im dead because he shot me once with a longbow and has an arming sword

[rich cypress]

With how bad sound is in this game and how far they can creep if I see a rouge invis I just walk away completely

[ivory quartz]

Can you please explain this sound thing, I keep hearing this complaint but I have never had a single issue with sound in this game.

[short heath]

They pretty much gutted Rogue. They needed to keep dagger damage where it was while reducing armor pen. They can definitely still kill squishy enemies, but it won't be one or two taps anymore.

[rich cypress]

Hide mastery you dunce

[mild lion]

Just always doesn't sound accurate. Might be hardware might be game I don't really know. I usually don't have any issue with directional sound but I'm rocking maxwells and loud volume

[ripe turtle]

Now that Rogues are getting a HUGE nerf hammer, now your skills are put to the test.

[south tendon]

game had 300k players like 200 days ago

then 170k

then 60k

then like a month ago even less

Now theres 20k ???

Wow....

[ivory quartz]

your next on the chopping block buddy. Me and the barbarians will be waiting for you down here at the bottom of the tier list.

[shrewd ledge]

yes but, now you do little to no damage cause your getting rid of your skill which are the only reason you do damage.

[small furnace]

I believe that my skills will be put to the test yes, when I go to character select I must pass the test of not clicking on a rogue character.

[rich cypress]

For some reason I hear players to the left even though they are right behind me sometimes

[raw summit]

@civic zodiac you were saying?

[short heath]

Rogue will need a slight base damage buff from where they are at, and Hide duration maybe go up ~10s and I'd say they're well balanced.

[stuck perch]

No I don't expect a polished game in early access but I do except some compromise when nerfing or buffing a class. Not just lets turn everything a class has off and see what that does.

[ripe turtle]

Choose Fighter! Problem solved!

[mild lion]

That might be hardware? What headphones you using and are you using any 3d sound enhancers like dolby?

[rich cypress]

Little to no damage is an overstatement good kits can still 5 shot

[small furnace]

May as well, they will be better than rogues in pretty much every way now.

[agile gulch]

They're screwing over many of the classes and fucking over the playerbase and only listening to the whining babys. what'd you think would happen?

[vestal trench]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493955/ranger-triple-shot-rework please upvote my ranger triple-shot rework. Change triple shot to "multi-shot", longbows shoot 2 arrows, recurves shoot 3, survival's do 4. projectile arc is dramatically decreased, and projectiles suffer -20% damage modifer because you're not fully drawing the arrows back.

[ivory quartz]

This game is unironically finished

[stuck perch]

2 weapon fighter or wizard are the new rogues.

[rich cypress]

I think I have Dolby but I'll check to make sure

[ripe turtle]

I'd say Barbarians are the worst class against Fighter now. Wizards too, if you go full plate without MDR.

[rich cypress]

Keep crying please

[daring trail]

There isnt enough MDR in the game to counter-act the damage a wizard will do to a fighter.

[mild lion]

Yeah test it on and off. I had everything set up from counterstrike so its been a minute since I've messed with it

[shrewd ledge]

untill patch comes out no one really knows, this is all speculation but 5 i doubt it.

[ripe turtle]

Stay away from HR. Then you wont have to worry about that.

[rich cypress]

They said they were adding more magic resistant gear such as rings and pendants but that remains to be seen at least they have the models ready

[rich cypress]

Pub stompers are rampant right now

[shrewd ledge]

TRUE FACTS

[daring trail]

I mean HR w/ the 150g buy in is not only dead, but rogue infested lol.

Maybe now it will just be dead, without rogues

[proper shuttle]

@dawn grotto Refund option when?

[rich cypress]

They need to make more people want to play high roller by deceasing the reward from regulars and decreasing the risk from hr

[rigid prawn]

You can disagree with the devs balance practises sure, that’s a fair take. I just like to think that they do it for a reason / it’s based off data analysis. I don’t think they are just throwing shit at a wall to see if sticks personally I just think they are making sweeping changes to target specific things that they consider problematic.

[ripe turtle]

Oh there will be Rogues no doubt, but...they are stealing your treasures rather than fight a full blue plate Fighter.

[shrewd ledge]

OHH btw why is no one mention the -5 res and -5 agility we getting?

[daring trail]

right, more pve and less pvp.. inside of the game mode they want more geared people to go to lol

[rich cypress]

Ruins needs a total rework to where it isn't a rouge and ranger playground

[ivory quartz]

You can't honestly defend the extent of these nerfs. and it is obvious that the change was not made due to data they gathered but rather the 400 replies Spud Hunters video got.

[south tendon]

you are right

[echo comet]

@full grove I let bards buff up and w key at me, then they just die

[shrewd ledge]

-5 aglity so we attack slower now too ontop of doing way less damage which is fine, but overdone. then the -5 res thats just not necessary

[short heath]

Rogue is still viable, just can't 100-0 plate classes before they can react anymore. Squishies still are damn near 100-0 without reaction.

[ripe turtle]

Perhaps Rogues should form a thieves's guild now that the gods decided to turn their fate upside down. 😄 Highly dangerous assassins turned into thieves and beggars. (Kidding)

[full grove]

Lol F the mega bards

[glacial sphinx]

They'll walk back rogue nerfs a tiny bit soon, or maybe everyone else is nerfed a bit on tuesday as well. Just chill

[proper shuttle]

That never was a thing unless u were wearing full grey plate lmao

[short heath]

It absolutely was.

[daring trail]

I am truly curious how quickly we will see rogue complaints again. I still think they will be an issue for squishies, but rogues just cannot fight fighter/barb anymore

[shrewd ledge]

My take on rouges is that IT seems really bad but may be ok, and if it isnt they will buff him

[small furnace]

You read it wrong, they gave +5 resourcefulness probably to compensate for the agility lost.

[short heath]

Honestly that's how it should be. People will be complaining later today about Rogue again, don't worry.

[shrewd ledge]

Ohh wait word? my rouges about to becoem a stealth miner

[cloud iris]

Where do you get this information? As far as I know the player base is as high as it's ever been

[glacial sphinx]

steam times was higher but that only makes sense

[proper shuttle]

Nope

[cloud iris]

Nope how? Based off of what? Where do you see the current playerbase count?

[daring trail]

I dont necessarily mind it, i mean as a fighter you just gotta run from wizards, make them run through a door way into your falchion. Wizards need to not peak rangers.. I dont mind there being counters in the game, but 8 nerfs in 1 "balance change' is ridiculous. Im not sure how you can even pull legitimate data from these changes to see what the problem was

[ivory quartz]

The game tells you how many active dungeons their are and how many people are online. You can simply track the numbers by remembering where they were and were they are now.

[cloud iris]

The game tells you this where? How do I see this information (really, I'm not familiar)

[daring trail]

press the + to add someone to your group, right at the top is all the pop info

[cloud iris]

Got it, thank you!

[rigid prawn]

@ivory quartz I mean I saw his video and although I though some of his arguments were weak you gotta admit that the community was majority playing rogue, seeing full rogue lobbies wasn’t uncommon. I personally think that what they adjusted makes sense to a degree but I’ll have to reserve judgment until I see how it plays. Making stealth shorter duration with a optional perk to bring it back to the long duration is a great idea for example since now it’s a choice whether you get luxury of time in stealth or damage etc

[daring trail]

Rogue was the safest class to play. It also did decent damage and could hold itself against classes.. Thats why everyone would play it.

It no longer does 'decent' damage, and the stealth was so heavily nerfed, that you have to take a perk now just to have stealth thats better than a grey invis potion. ( so a damage, and surviveability nerf )

Now it cannot hold itself against classes, and less survivability due to the stealth change, and agi change

I think its safe to say it wont be lobbies full of rogues anymore

[ivory quartz]

There are plenty of reasons why rogue was being played so much, it could be the fact that three other classes had been nerfed hard in just the prior patch so they rotated to anew class not surprising wizards and bards would move over to rogue next. And with Barb rogues biggest counter gutted that didnt help. I dont want to defend any element of these nerfs I disagree with them on principle. But surely you cant believe that rogue needed a nerf to Resourcefullness. You must agree that at least that was unnecessary.

[slender marten]

Just do the EA patch today since you having downtime anyways

[dusky kernel]

Does ‘decent damage’ mean 1-3 shoting with fast attacking weapons? 🤔

[proper shuttle]

Refund when

[slender marten]

Weekend grind would of been nice

[daring trail]

thats another person ive seen that said resourcefulness was nerffed for rogues... it was buffed dawg

[ivory quartz]

Yes Rogue was played purely because it was safe, and with the introduction of the post lvl 15 lobbies most players who were not confident in their pvp combat skills would just pick the class that had the best chance of escape.

[slender marten]

"Please note that the update will also introduce sweeping balance changes that will affect almost every class, weapon, and item in the game". Everyone getting touched on Tuesday

[ivory quartz]

my mistake they sandwitched a buff inbetween nerfs. @rigid prawn I ammend my statement, but I would ask if you support the agi nerfs in light of the others?

[proper shuttle]

Refund when

[tidal sequoia]

when maintenance done

[rigid prawn]

I think we need to test it before we jump to conclusions. Agi was 5 off soft cap at 35 it could have been a little high yeah. As a current barb main I disagree that hes gutted, Achilles was a crutch, and the ms cap was an indirect buff since 350 ms with just haste and some ms kit isn’t that hard to hit as barb

[tidal sequoia]

@rigid prawn when is exact realese of druid

[rigid prawn]

Sometime between now and a few years from now

[long isle]

wipes are 2 long rn untill they add quests and training 1-2 weak wipes are plenty

[short heath]

Three of the nerfs are legitimately unnoticeable to the player if you ask me... Hide duration is adaptable, but I'm 90% sure there are a significant amount of people who regularly used Hide's full duration. Most good Rogues use Hide mid fight for Ambush procs, or let their front line engage and then use it to sneak to back lines. The nerf was aimed at solo Rogues - which their goal as they admitted is to balance for trios and minimize solo v trio ratting. Initial hit not having 50% on Weakpoint is noticeable, but for most situations is healthy for the game. The aim is to avoid oneshots as a whole, because they're generally unhealthy. Agi/Resourcefulness nerf/buff will largely go unnoticed to most players.

[vocal lodge]

they decrase the will so they cant blind you and holy light instakill you on goblins with make more sense!

[short steppe]

How do you guys feel about gear score based matchmaking? Think that would be a good idea? Like make it a range say, 400-600 would be a bracket. So gear disparity still exists but not to extremes. They could base it off color, or if they want to put in the work, base gear score off stats.

[long isle]

now that mag dmg is going to be the meta for rouge he sounds more fun to play and play against could not be in reality but on paper it sounds fun

[ivory quartz]

Yeah lets just do gearscore, and remove trading too while we are at it.

[spring hamlet]

Im not sure if this will be a hated suggestion or not. But i feel like clerics should have a slight buff to their spell recovery. Waiting for 1 lesser heal is a pain. Or even waiting for a sanctuary. Im not saying give them a flat buff. But maybe like a perk so they have to give up a perk slot for more recovery for their spells. I mean heck even wizards get meditation so they can gather their spells faster. Which i understand 1 is fighting base vs support base. So a wizard relies more on their spells to stay in the fight. Maybe im just playing cleric wrong lmfao

[long isle]

gear score matchmakeing is the worst thing they could do

[rigid prawn]

Chad take, something needed to be done on how effective solo rogue ratting was and this patch helps dramatically. You can still solo thief rogue (avoiding fights) no problem too it just requires you build around it instead of damage. Will have to see how much it effects pricing hide kid combat though since besides the damage nerfs not much has been done to combat that

[proper shuttle]

Refund when?

[ivory quartz]

None of these nerfs were necessary, and a single one would have been sufficient in resolving the communities concerns

[long isle]

never why do you even want one this is the best game to come out in a long time

[short steppe]

How so? Maybe they don't have the playerbase to support it right now, but if they did. Why would it be bad? Gear disparity will still exist, but not to extremes. So people who invest into good gear still feel it's worthwhile, and can still have somewhat of an advantage. But not an impossible advantage, people in gray gear cannot beat full kitted squads 99% of the time. You need a great bit of skill, luck, and maybe hiding skills to even survive an encounter.

[rigid prawn]

I respectfully disagree, something needed to be done, but it remains to be seen if this was too much at once or not, we need to test it first

[proper shuttle]

I sure hope so, didn’t buy founders pack for this nonsense balancing. Project crawl new game lol

[ivory quartz]

The issue is that every balance change is so extreme that the meta is drastically shifting. I wouldnt be surprised if we see lobbies filled with 2/3 rangers now. Rogue wasnt an issue before they gutted bard and barbarian.

[lunar peak]

rogue just deleted from game as class, even the mage is now better to hit daggers from invisibility better than the rogue

[short steppe]

I have an inkling they have no idea how to balance games like this, considering the only other game they likely worked on was maplestory lol. But i still have high hopes for the game and its direction.

[civic zodiac]

Well they should have fixed the matchmaking before to kill the rogue. Now solo player that hate the disgusting goblin cave ahave no way to compete against team of purple geared... Game became p2w as hell now that theres barely no counter to overgeared players its sad. Time to take a break untill a nontrading gamemode is released or game balance make sense

[ivory quartz]

yes, yes they are

[long isle]

the only people who want gear score are the people who blame the enemys gear when they die, knowing that a team might/ do have better gear than you forces you to imrove and then when you are good enough to kill someone with better gear its the most satisfying thing also with gear score haveing better gear will force you to only fight people that are also higher gear meaning that the high geared players will gain gold faster coz every fight will be insanely profitable

[rigid prawn]

Daggers got needed across the board, this latch needed wiz as well. Try not to jump to conclusions wait till we have the patch in our hands

[small furnace]

Thank god the devs listened btw, the next wipe coming up will only wipe gear and not progression. Though it is annoying they don't wipe on Friday to let us have fun and grind on the weekend.

[short steppe]

There is a difference between simply blaming it on gear, and it obviously being a gear diff scenario. You my friend will not win against lobsters in gray gear. Lol. Skill has nothing to do with it at a certain point, that's why gear score matchmaking needs a RANGE.

[proper shuttle]

They alr had enough counter play on how to detect a rogue, even perks/spells on most classes, a damage nerf would’ve been enough. They deleted the rogue class and leave the most broken class since pt1 untouched. I’m moving games fs

[rigid prawn]

Meta shifting is exactly why they do these types of things. If rangers are overrunning lobbies now then they will be addressed next. Just the growing pains, stick through it!

[daring trail]

Even if you consider -5 agi unnoticable, 5 'noticable' nerfs in one patch is significantly too much, for any class mind you, not just rogue.

I dont mind a weakpoint nerf, but it getting nerfed in 2 different ways is where its just too much.

TTK is too high across the board. It does not feel good as ANY CLASS, to die inside of 3 seconds before you can react.

[gentle rapids]

I hope this is the case, rangers need the nerf hammer

[ivory quartz]

No gearscore is necessary to equalize matchmaking, this isnt an RPG anymore its a midevil dueling simultor with spells. Having gear with radically different stat bonuses in the same match is unfair.

[civic zodiac]

They just like to kill their own game...

[long isle]

aslong as you have green/blue gear you can kill high gear teams you just need to get better and learn from when you die and not blame gear and more on

[rigid prawn]

I feel like your contradicting yourself here. The weak point needs help solve the problem you stated in the last half of your comment lol

[ivory quartz]

Yep its time we bring peoples attention to the ranger problem. Like why do their arrows even slow when they hit you, don't they have a perk for that? And why do they start with hunting traps when you can buy them.

[slender void]

No, they like to kill Rogues, like any sane individual does.

[slender marten]

https://darkanddarker.com/news/5

Just do this today plz and ty

[gentle rapids]

GBMM would actually be a game ending change

[short steppe]

Agreed, i think having a range is important considering people still want to feel like high investment into a set is worth it. I'm thinking lobbies with legendaries, uniques, and purples, should probably only allow people with down to blue gear sets in. It makes it possible for the lowbies. Something like 2-3 brackets of lobbies for gearscore matchmaking would definitely be better than what we have now. Gearscore probably would be too hard to calculate based on stats, so gear color would suffice.

[finite harness]

add a spell for the cleric like a light orb that sticks to players and heal for 1 or 2 health per second for 15 seconds similar lo the light orb from the mages but green color

[long isle]

they havent killed rouges the have just changed the playstyle you are nolonger playing for the insane 1 shot burst dmg you now have to actualy use your movement speed to dodge attacks and wittle down the enmey with makeing it more fun to play as and against a rouge

[daring trail]

You are allowed to 'feel' anyway you like

You are reading my last message, and thinking rogue is the only class im taking about. Plus completely gutting anyones spell/ability is bad.

Weakpoint without the extra 50% weapon damage, is something youd only take if you have a team to follow you up with. Nerfing both sides of weakpoint just makes it to where you will run rupture and forget weakpoint exsists.

[finite harness]

it would float slowly towards the target

[ivory quartz]

No gear disparity is the biggest problem with this game. it makes matches extremely unfair, and grants an advantage to the person who has the most time to spend on the game.

[gentle rapids]

Next Tuesday is going to be a gear nerf, and in most cases just play better

[lusty fractal]

I almost feel like they want a bunch of rangers to get more data on them. probably cope though

[spring hamlet]

So no agreement or disagreement to this? No “hey youre a scrub you no nothing” xD

[cloud ermine]

That's literally any video game in this format omegalul

[gentle rapids]

This has to be it

[spiral acorn]

this developers can not balance this game , soon everyone will cry about rangers and they will delte rangers same like this patch , first they need to remove this all attr3 items from game since they stop drop it from monsters , there was a lot of options to nerf rogue but they just did terrible nerf thing ^^ if even they would remove rogue class atleast people would not lose their hope about this developers coz they just fucking it up , they did this before mage too.

[gentle rapids]

Idk how they keep avoiding nerfs

[long isle]

i think they should add a slight turn cap on ranger makeing it take longer to line up shots makeing it ezer to close distance against them

[tight fox]

Im thinking consolidating pick pocket and quiet steps into one passive and maybe increasing the limit to creeping would be interesting

[wide lagoon]

Can someome make a suggestion to allow buying all weapons 24/7 in shops? Makes no sense to have to wait for spellbooks for example

[gentle rapids]

Rogues are gonna keep getting perks

[long isle]

rogues need more perks and alot of the perks they have allready should merge together or with new ones, and trap detection should be ranger not rouge

[daring trail]

honestly we should just start taking out core pieces of the classes kits and just start making them perks instead

[gentle rapids]

I wanted hide to get removed so making it a perk is fine

[finite harness]

Add a sword/flute, it could be a hollow sword with holes wich you can cast flute songs and deal sword damage

[daring trail]

i agree, wizards should also need to use a perk to cast spells

[spring hamlet]

Can we take a minute and understand that atleast they are trying to balance the game. It is still early. And we should appreciate the effort thats remotely being put forth. They could just leave the game in broken pieces and just release more broken classes
(Also someone please talk to me about my suggestion and if its a good idea or im dumb)

[stuck perch]

How is trap detection/disarming not a rogue thing? It's the one thing they do aside from sneaking

[gentle rapids]

100% would give them a must take perk cus rn they’re all pretty shit

[long isle]

they should merge obv tone down the effectevness / ambush and backstab / creep and stealth / shadowrunner and pickpocket / thrust and dagger expert / and rouge needs more perks to improve there evasion

[gentle rapids]

Cleric doesn’t need a buff, and wiz meditation is only rly good for solos

[rigid prawn]

I hope a major change will be when monk gets added to the game. A skill like patient defends would go a long way to bringing down ranger a peg

[gentle rapids]

I thought of it as a skill “deflect missiles” for a certain amount of time

[compact epoch]

REmove ROGUE and RANGER tell me why they shouldnt.

[gentle rapids]

And could use a ki point to chuck one back

[stuck perch]

The amount you recover by resting is based off of your spell capacity. You can increase it by getting more or more knowledge.

[ivory quartz]

They should, they should remove every class but fighter so that the game can finally be balanced.

[spring hamlet]

Yea thats such great feed back. I never said a buff i said a perk that would allow them to regain their spells slightly faster. And wiz med isnt just good in solos its also very good when youre chucking spells with your team in pushing in and you need that 1-2 fire balls or magic missle etc to

[long isle]

wizard and ranger need a nurf bard and warlock need slight reworks

[stuck perch]

and also remove every fighting style for fighter except fists because it's not fair to fight against a falchion if you have a weaker sword.

[ivory quartz]

yep ranger and wizard need nerfs I say cut the attribute scaling on fireball to 50%

[gentle rapids]

I rather have 10 spell in trios, and cleric doesn’t need to get their heals any faster, just buy clarity

[compact epoch]

this is the most sensible thing i've herd

[rigid prawn]

Potentially, and when they take notice of the drop off they may roll back some changes. You gotta let the devs play with the numbers it’s the only way we will see and real balance down the road. Short term suffering for long term gain

[stuck perch]

I'd wait for Wizard until the sorceror comes out.

[long isle]

they need to nurf cast time scaleing and increase the move speed penelty while casting

[gentle rapids]

Just lower magic dmg rly, 50 scaling was too much try 90

[ivory quartz]

Wonderful lets do those two things, But I still think fireball needs to be looked at. Im sure when they institute these changes the data will have shown we are correct.

[long isle]

they dont need to nurf the dmg they need to add more ways to counter it

[stuck perch]

Base wizard is fine where it is, it's the geared super wizards that need to get looked at.

[spring hamlet]

Bruh a white clarity doesnt even get you 1 lesser heal youre insane mate xD

[gentle rapids]

Well staff wizard is bad book wizard op

[mossy burrow]

Check this out!! Thrown torches applying achilles still for barbs but not rupture for rogues!! Upvote to get this changed!!

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487417/bring-back-rupture-to-torches-or-remove-the-ability-for-other-classes-to-use-the

Still a thing.

[tight fox]

Give rouge an active skill that extinguishes torches in his vicinity

[daring trail]

Its just a problem across the board. Its every balance patch where classes are GUTTED, not NERFED.

You cannot accurately see the difference when you nerf 8 things at the same time.

[gentle rapids]

Then buy better clarity, or more

[rigid prawn]

That’s an assumption your making. The devs have access to the data, we do not. Let them cook!

[spring hamlet]

See exactly why this wouldnt be the worst idea when youre only feedback is to spend more gold to reduce your time so you choke down 4 potions mid fight just to possibly get 1 heal to alter a fight.

[ivory quartz]

He is correct if you make this many sweeping changes to the variables it is actually impossible to gather accurate data, you have no control to compare too. That is how I know they are not making changes based on any data.

[granite plinth]

Nerf barbarian plz 😄

[daring trail]

No, this is how every test in the world works. You change one variable at a time.

[gentle rapids]

Respawn did the same thing with apex, overnerf and then roll back. It’s very likely to happen the same here, well shit they rolled back the wizard nerfs

[long isle]

i feal like the rouge nurf is rly good if they incrase the atrabute scaleing of poison and rupture to 80 rouge will be in a rly good place

[gentle rapids]

Your suggestion wouldn’t help in a fight anyway, cleric needs to have their downtime for free heals

[scarlet creek]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1154484790985228420/1154508240437133452/image.png This hopefully will happen next. It's in #dnd-memes-only

[spiral acorn]

that why they insta buffed mage back when they fuked mage up. their game balancer team just shhhit...

[rigid prawn]

That’s 1 way to do it. Theirs is another. Overtuning and rolling back is a viable balance tactic as well

[daring trail]

Rolling back shows how incompetent the changes were in the first place

[spring hamlet]

But it would if you were just mid pve. And behind a door is more players. And itd totally be feasible if you had to use a perk slot for it so its not like theyre getting a flat buff they have to offer up a perk slot.

[rigid prawn]

Or it’s just fine tuning? Sometimes you need to make small adjustments especially when you process them with large ones

[daring trail]

'fine tuning' and 'small adjustments' are the complete opposite of what ironmace has been doing

[gentle rapids]

Sure, but I don’t think cleric should have that. Sounds like something sorc would have

[novel crag]

give warlock kris dagger

[spring hamlet]

So why should magic dmg users have the ability to regain spells faster vs the support?

[rigid prawn]

Let’s just agree to disagree, feel like we’re looking at different patch notes lol. There’s been a lot of back and forth, wizard being a perfect example.

[frosty creek]

suggestion: nobody is playing bard anymore ... so sad becos its most fun class ...
here is my suggst
give bard new song : ascension : it will teleport the party out of dungeon
what do you think?

[ivory quartz]

He has you on that one, there is no fine tuning with nerfing a class 6 times and hitting its base stats.

[gentle rapids]

Takes 10 minutes to play and you can’t fuck up once

[daring trail]

The only adjustments to wizard, have been changes that are not needed.
The problem with wizard is the damage is way too high. Nothing regarding damage has been nerfed. Only correctly fixxed.

[long isle]

have you played bard

[rigid prawn]

This wouldn’t be the fine tuning patch lol that happens after

[frosty creek]

bard is worst class it need new spell: ascension
new spell will teleport bard and party out of dungeon

[gentle rapids]

Idk how that has anything to do with anything but I have

[long isle]

bard is one of the most esential classes for any team

[gentle rapids]

It is… and?

[spring hamlet]

Because to have an opinion on a suggestion you should have some reasonable sense on what its like to play the class

[gentle rapids]

Y’all can’t be serious right?

[frosty creek]

suggestion : add body type C for genderfluid indivisuals

[stuck perch]

Not anymore it isn't. Cleric far out paces them as a support class and you're also better off with a cleric/ranger/fighter or barbarian than taking a bard.

[gentle rapids]

Cleric out heals for sure but bard buffs are still dummy strong

[ivory quartz]

But how are you supposed to know what element of the class needs to be fine tuned. What data do you honestly expect them to have. Do you seriously believe they have data on how long rogues stay in stealth for on average or how many hits on average a player of a particular class takes before they die. They dont even have average TTK numbers. You can go look in the development chat they posted all the data they gathered from palytest 5, and there is nothing in that you could use to determine why any of these nerfs were necessary.

[stark sonnet]

dont bring that into such a good game

[rigid prawn]

Once again I must be reading different patch notes, they’ve adjusted damage on specific spells and overall multiple times since EA release

[long isle]

the buffs are so good and bard can have some of the highest dps of any class and it only takes a 30ish seconds base to buff

[daring trail]

Ah perfect, give me your examples. Because the only "damage nerf' they got, was a mistake IM didnt correctly adjust when they reverted back to 100% scaling.

There has been 0 wizard damage nerfs since EA release

[stuck perch]

If you want a fluid character type then just switch back and forth between body types A and B, apply a male or female skin to a character of the type or take the ultimate neutral skin that is the skeleton.

[stuck perch]

The buffs haven't been good or even worth taking up a character slot for several patches now.

[daring trail]

Actually, since EA release, wizard damage waas actually buffed

[rigid prawn]

It was yeah, it was played with a. Decent amount with splash damage on fireball etc. there were nerds but they got reverted since they thought it was too much at once, i think we are agreeing on this though. You can’t say they haven’t been playing with it though

[ivory quartz]

What about all the other nerfs, were those your suggestion too?

[stuck perch]

Yeah it just announces your position to the dungeon and lets people either rush you before you get those weak buffs out or has people running away before you can finish. All for minor bonuses. It's junk, support bard isn't worth it.

[daring trail]

The 'nerfs' werent nerfs to wizard though, it was scaling across the board for all spellcasters.

and when it was reverted back to 100%, some wizard spells that were previously nerffed to 50% in PT4, were also reverted to 100% ( IM said it was supposed to be 50% and they didnt fix it correctly )

You questioned weather we were reading the same patch notes, are you reading the Dark and Darker patch notes? im not sure where you thought wizard was a perfect example here lol

[stuck perch]

Rogue stealth had a ton of counters, now I don't know if people will bother taking them.

[rugged ridge]

need to make other classes have some way to compete with rat gold per game efficiency or everyone is still gonna just play solo rogue to consistently make money. barbs smashing chests bards and rangers are the only other semi efficient default geared map farmers. every class needs some kind of niche that makes them viable gold getters imo. or you are still gonna have full lobbies of rogues.

[rigid prawn]

I stated there’s a lot of back and forth using wizard as an example and this post proves that I’m right in that. My point is that just because they’ve made a bunch of changes doesn’t mean they are done tuning the class

[languid spoke]

Easy change that will improve the game: unequipping items should have a move speed penalty just like equipping items.

[daring trail]

I mean if you think a small change to haste/invis is proof that they 'fine tune' all of their classes, then i guess that is that LOL

[glass harbor]

Maybe have the new hide mastery reduce cooldown instead of increasing duration, that can combo well with ambush and allowing for use in pve as well, and also avoid having people be sitters with hide.
Maybe make cleric have a perk that makes their Undead aoe hit any monsters for reduced damage on Undead and even more reduced on non-undead, making for some possible solo hell with less gear

[rigid prawn]

I mean if we’re gonna talk about invis, that spell has been the most adjusted one by far lol. They aren’t even done flushing out spells yet, wizard is far from being tuned

[stuck perch]

Just make the perk make Demons count as Undead. There's no reason it should hit goblins and dragonflies for anything.

[glass harbor]

Also, would be nice to have invis be a camouflage instead, like cloaking works in the starcraft franchise, maybe not mage and pot invis, since its magical?

[stuck perch]

So you want to give players the ability to tweak their graphics so that they can see through invisibility easily?

[daring trail]

I usually dont care about the invis/haste changes, because a wizards support spells arent the issue. Its the damage they put out. This shows me how little they actually look at data

even by IMs own definition between a Wizard and Sorc, wizards are the support buffers while sorcs are the glass cannons.

Im not sure how that translates to wizards being good support and amazing damage

[glass harbor]

That would force rogues to turn off light sources or stand still to have less chance to being seen

[glass harbor]

That can be tweaked though by the devs, also, i'm a rogue main and have 5 rogues, and still am suggesting that

[rigid prawn]

Probably because the sorc doesn’t exist yet. They’ve already stated that wiz plays closer to sorc then To the intended wiz game loop. Just undercooked is all

[glass harbor]

That would make rogues have to turn off light sources to make It harder to see the faint outline and avoid moving when people are looking at them as It also makes It easier to see them

[glass harbor]

That Works as well

[rugged ridge]

stealth should have no cooldown last like 10 seconds and have charges that refresh with campfires jobs done for hide skill. this will lead to a lot more fun gameplay then 1 minute door camping or 1 minute cooldown 14 second hope this works out but probably wont.

[glossy rain]

Rogues should light up like a torch when going in and out of stealth. That would suit the latest patch notes

[shy tangle]

if They wanted to nerf ambush they shouldve kept the damage increase with weakpoint because with the decrease to only 25% of armor now its almost not worth taking
Only reason I'd keep running it is because all other rogue active abilities other than hide, weakpoint, and rupture are trash. Probably gonna just become a speedy fighter and do almost the same things as a rogue but better at this point

[cunning scarab]

Honestly to slow the pace of pvp, you just need to increase all classes HP

[glass harbor]

Smoke curtain is strong for pickpocket builds

[stuck perch]

I think the smoke bomb and caltrops should be utility items, and you should be able to throw the bomb not just drop it.

[rugged ridge]

3 charges on hide 10 second duration campfires give some charges back popping in and out of a short term invis with tempered ambush damage seems like a lot more fun for rogues and is much easier to play against for other classes who complained about running through doors that have a rogue camping for a minute to then one shot them

[shy tangle]

pickpocketing is not worth it imo, better to try to build for pvp to get actual loot. I've tried pickpocketing and either get found out and die or get a grey which is next to worthless/an item i cant use

[glass harbor]

Only If we start out with some as default, because i already dont like having to spend money on dozens of invis pots or have a pet wizard If i want to use ambush correctly, also, having the New hide mastery perk reducing CD instead of increasing duration as i suggested would help with that

[stuck perch]

Yeah that's fine. Start with 1 or 2 of each, with a perk that makes them more efficient like the ranger's trap mastery perk.

[somber wind]

I feel like bringing it from 60 to 20 is abit harsh. I feel like 30 would be better, it was 30 before and people were able to make due with it somewhat. If we want the duration to hinge more on buff duration bonus I think 25 seconds would be a reasonable middle ground.

[glass harbor]

We have to remember that due to low Will 20s becomes about 17s

[somber wind]

Yeah

[stuck perch]

I think it was fine at 60 45 because several classes had stealth counters, if they didn't want to take them it's their problem.

[glass harbor]

30s base would be a decent middle ground

[delicate narwhal]

40 seconds with perk is chillin

[glass harbor]

I'd still prefer having the perk reduce CD

[fallen sequoia]

good job, you have sucessfully completely gutted a class. Rogue is no longer viable and you gave no trade off to the absolute nerf

[shrewd ledge]

how is rouge feeling i havent played it yet

[somber wind]

I really don't think it's gutted, but the stealth nerf is abit much; pretty much everything else was warranted

[short heath]

Not true. They can still nuke squishies just fine.

[fallen sequoia]

have you read the patch notes?

[somber wind]

Have you played rogue?

[flint goblet]

you and the other 50% of the playerbase can learn something new

[fallen sequoia]

weakpoint nerf, stealth nerf, ambush nerf, ALL daggers got nerfed. For a +5 resourcefullness trade off

[stuck perch]

If they are going to reduce the duration to 20 15 without the perk and 40 with the perk, then the stealth perk where you can move while stealth should be baseline.

[somber wind]

Yes and it's still exceptionally fast, you can still circle stab which was something people were doing awhile back. It's a different playstyle.

[shrewd ledge]

Anyone Who HAS played rouge how dose it feel.

[fallen sequoia]

That doesn't work though becasue MS is CAPPED

[short heath]

Feels fine. Can't nuke plate. Can nuke squish.

[somber wind]

At 350 yes, which you do not hit without buffs. Circling is possible with even 30 agility.

[fallen sequoia]

But NO BUFFS at all or ANY trade offs in any sections is crazy. You want rogue to be more versitile but you just shit on him.

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree

[hardy vector]

omg guys lets gut rogue instead of nerfing fighter and ranger. fucking useless

[mellow snow]

I have a suggestion for improvement i guess: Me and my buddies are a bit confused about Magic Damage and Magic Weapon Damage. When I use Ignite, I boost my opponent's weapon with Magical Damage. However, the Crystal Sword has Magic Weapon Damage... It doesn't quite make sense to me. It could just be Magic Damage on Weapons and Gear and. Best Regards

[glass harbor]

Magic weapon damage is another damage the sword does but its affected by your Magic Power and enemy's MR instead of armor as base weapon damage does

[hardy vector]

also

[somber wind]

Rogue got to 80% saturation. Ranger is for sure a problem, Patch 1 is coming which is a major rebalance this was just a hotfix due to the gold dupe. That said I wouldn't say Rogue is gutted, the stealth change was harsh though; right now only Playtest agro rogue is viable though so we're likely to see more changes.

[icy panther]

Remove rogue pending a rework

[fallen sequoia]

rogue has been gutted bruv, give an explication on how they are good now. They get 1 shot by all ,their dmg got nerfed to oblivion, and they got no trade off

[storm blade]

Game saved rogue is gone

[shy tangle]

100% agree. Played rogue since 1st play test. This is another heavy handed nerf that they've become extremely comfortable doing. Not just to rogue but almost everytime they implement a nerf to anyone

[fallen sequoia]

They might as well just take rogue off as a class because just about any other class is better than him now

[shrewd ledge]

nah i think the prev nerf exp wizzard where all good

[shy tangle]

Some balancing was warranted but they just took the class out back and put it down.

Hence why I said "almost everytime" they do have sensible nerfs occasionally but most of the time its trash

[frosty agate]

Nerf WARLOCK BLOW OF CORRUPTION

[ivory quartz]

Yep BOC too strong, can one shot people with little to no gear investment, just free damage with no skill

[shy tangle]

Definitly agree there. It's warlocks equivalent of Achilles strike

[short heath]

Yall are overreacting to Rogue nerfs

[shy tangle]

It's been nerfed by roughly 66% of damage from what it used to do. It's literally worse now than any prior playtest

[short heath]

Which is a good thing. Oneshotting 90% of characters and two-four tapping the other 10% wasn't healthy.

[frosty agate]

Rogue got the GIGA nerf. Their Armor pen nerf was masive and needed.

[shy tangle]

But rogues getting one shot by people with barely any gear investment is? The point to rogue is a sneaky glass cannon. They deal crazy damage but in a head to head fight they can go down super fast

[valid atlas]

the devs just need to delete this discord lmao

[short heath]

I haven't been one tapped as a Rogue more than maybe 3 times, and every time it has been against a very well geared player, usually a Barb.

[frosty agate]

They needed the armor pen debuff nerf.

[azure sky]

I dont think the people here get that rogue gets 1-tapped by so many classes and its meant to be high risk/reward

[short heath]

Rogues are a high risk high reward class, yes. But they definitely don't get onetapped often, especially not if they're built well.

[shy tangle]

I've been one tapped by a ranger, bard, barb, wizard, and warlock all of which had around the same level of gear as me if not lower. (This is when I was rocking blues and purples on every piece and the opponents had only a few items at blue or purple)

[boreal holly]

Need a perk for fighter or some shit where I can swing on a fireball and reflect it back like some Legend of Zelda shit

[azure sky]

Blow of corruption, the entire barb class, fighter usually has a high damage weapon or an high damage crossbow, spread shot from ranger. And the ones that dont have a built in counter against rogue's hiding like bard aoe or wizards light

[frosty agate]

It doesnt take much for two rogues or any rogue even default gear before to slap down a armored up fighter/bard/cleric and just shred them off just base kit.
You look at Warlock, Their Blow of Corruption on a two handed hit can hit through shield sometimes and even then their BoC will rip through any class but BARBARIAN with ease because of the magic/phys mix damage. There is a magic/debuff meta going on. Hard for people to grasp that there is NO magical protection practially.

[median owl]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472063/auction-house
we really need this it's getting old to trade for an hour or more

[narrow snow]

Suggestion: We move to greed is good or project crawl. Or idk don't push back a big patch just to hotfix rogue for 3 days due to crybabies who will still say rogue is op.

[ivory quartz]

no we need to remove trading entirely

[hearty agate]

I just really hope the big patch nerfs everyone else down to otherwise I’m kinda struggling to understand the state of balancing

[median owl]

gold would have no usage then, not very good

[median owl]

i think only archer avoided nerfs everything else got some kind of nerf

[lucid acorn]

another day of playing this DOGPISS game bc ironmace is unaware of how broken ranger/bows are!!! would love to refund if i knew developers werent gonna listen.

[median owl]

im sure its coming the next patch

[lucid acorn]

ahh yeah just a month or two after release?? crazy

[median owl]

well its better than never, right?

[somber wind]

We're getting a mass rebalance patch, it was ment to be friday but they did this hotfix because of a gold dupe so they threw in some stuff and pushed it a few days out.

[lucid acorn]

ehh if people are still playing past the shittyness of running into constant 3 rangers

[weary spear]

Ranger class isnt broken. its a skill diff

[lucid acorn]

im running full blue gear barb, and you gonna tell me a gray recurve hits half my hp is balanced?? what drugs you on, i want em

[weary spear]

was it a headshot?

[gentle rapids]

Yikes

[lucid acorn]

upper chest. runnin proj red and all. dont matter, game prolly be dead if they dont touch ranger/bow in a week

[somber wind]

Likely to within the next 4/5 days

[gentle rapids]

Yeah ranger needs the nerf hammer bad, they keep evading nerfs but I think this hotfix was just an appetizer for things to come

[fossil vigil]

Ight so rogue's are nerfed into the ground so can we get pocket sand now?

[weary spear]

lol bs, thats not how much damage a grey recuve does to a barb. i have tested this many of times. also it takes 3 headshots to kill a grey barb with a long bow. try again

[gentle rapids]

Maybe not like that but ranger isn’t balanced rn, ranged weapon slow just gives them a win if they hit one shot

[lucid acorn]

@weary spear only thing youve tested is hallucinogens bud

[weary spear]

lol says the dude who cant dodge an arrow.

[lucid acorn]

@weary spear unfortunately, ironmace discord profanity filter matches their balance team, shit😉 go ahead and thank them for not allowing me to say what i was gonna say bud

[weary spear]

thats what DM's are for bud

[gentle rapids]

<.< ooh stinky

[lucid acorn]

even better, msg on the way

[gentle rapids]

Don’t be toxic to the ranger main they feed off it

[hearty agate]

Patiently waiting for Tuesday to understand what state this game will be in

[gentle rapids]

Yeah rn its “Legacy items weekend” so I might wait for Tuesday too

[hearty agate]

Honestly might skip playing depending on how bad regular roller will be

[ivory quartz]

it won't even let me say words like ortho d o x

[gentle rapids]

High chance of too many rangers

[hearty agate]

Idk if I want to enjoy +3all everywhere weekend

[timid palm]

wrong chat

[gentle rapids]

“Enjoy”

[lucid acorn]

with in rease in price of hr, im sure regulars will be shit

[hearty agate]

Time to go back to pubg then - least then I’m playing a dead game with skill instead of gear checks lol

[timid palm]

guys different chat

[gentle rapids]

More power to ya, see you on Tuesday!

[lucid acorn]

wtfff🤣🤣 point proven

[timid palm]

suggestions discussion

[hearty agate]

I have a suggestion - let’s rework rogue into a different class because currently it’s just useless

[timid palm]

35 agility is bad because seeing half the lobby is rogues is sad

[hearty agate]

The only non nerf to rogue today was a 5 point increase in resourcefulness

[timid palm]

look at the move speed they had

[blissful crane]

All characters get some form of biscuits, so tired of not getting biscuits like the Rangers!
Get Creative!
Rogues get Elven Bread.
Fighters and Bars get Meat Stew!
Wizards get Frog Kabobs!
Clerics get Crackers
Warlocks get a pair of fangs.

[timid palm]

104.3% is wild

[hearty agate]

But we didn’t nerf just move speed

[lucid acorn]

half?? lemme in your lobbies, 90% of mine are cringe ass rangers

[hearty agate]

Based on this - the huge balancing requires every class to be slower and do less damage as well

[timid palm]

Rogue now has Hide Mastery Perk that increases their hide duration.

[hearty agate]

Otherwise you just can rogue as a class and accept the idea behind it didn’t work out

[timid palm]

well when half the lobby is rogues thats a problem

[hearty agate]

That is not a buff by any means or a meaningful change

[lucid acorn]

ive always thought rogue hp/defenses were extremely low. like you will get one shot if barb or fighter hits you with anything about whites

[timid palm]

see I can get behind that

[hearty agate]

I mean personally I like the idea of reworking a class to involve adding meaningful changes - not just bombing it into the void

[timid palm]

increase like hp or something

[lucid acorn]

what would be a meaningful changw???

[hearty agate]

I mean the rogue class is a glass canon - take away hide and up dmg output

[lucid acorn]

i mean they got so many perks for him you can do any play style tbh, you will just get one tapped if breathed on

[hearty agate]

There are ways to do give and take not just take and take and take

[blissful crane]

Seriously, the only thing the Rogue had going for it, they stripped out.
It's all Rangers now.
Time for a change of venue.

[echo dome]

I DEMAND THE WIZARD GETS A WAND.

[timid palm]

well thats why their testing things

[hearty agate]

I mean if you’re a rogue now you just get a pick axe and avoid PvP like the actual plague because it will be the end of you

[lucid acorn]

i mean i dont think they needed to fully gut him like they did, i aint disagreeing with you on that. its just the class in itself, not really including stats, theres hella def things rogues can do. flip , invis rat, poison build, infinite

[hearty agate]

Yeah but that’s all cool but none of it matters in PvP if you die in 1 hit

They gave us a perk just to use a hand crossbow - no buff to dmg for it or anything - just the ability to use it

And now rogues will be rats and will continue to hide and do ambushes or just avoid PvP because there is no other reasonably viable way left

[lucid acorn]

that why i said they need to give him more hp, oops didnt mean to reply to that 1

[blissful crane]

Rogues should have traps that do massive damge from poison or throat cuts if a player walks into them.

[somber wind]

OK confirmed; Tuesday is the major patch + a wipe

[hearty agate]

Get rid of this damn +3 all legacy gear finally

[lucid acorn]

they need to add in like ability to do certain animations, like physically jump on someones back and stab them twice and get off, dmg is only like 50% dmg an auto. or some shit for rogue*

[faint onyx]

wizard is the ugly duckling of DaD

[languid pebble]

Here's a suggestion, stop nerfing everything but goddamn fucking ranger.

[somber wind]

Tuesday

[granite plinth]

actually fuck these nerfs

agree with some of it but you dont have to totally decimate an entire class

[somber wind]

I think stealth's duration decrease was too much, still think nerfing it to the old number might be ok

[hearty agate]

Lol no ranger always dodges nerfs because he is clearly so balanced

[somber wind]

We are sorry to announce that the Early Access Patch #1 that was planned for this week will be delayed until Tuesday September 26, 2023. Instead, we will deploy an emergency Hotfix #13 to stop a serious gold duping bug. We will start a comprehensive investigation into suspicious accounts, and accounts found to have exploited the bug will soon be banned. We have also decided to include a few of the smaller but more pressing class balancing changes that were intended for Patch #1 with emergency Hotfix #13.

Due to the side effects from the duping bug, we have decided to execute the next Early Access wipe much earlier than expected. We plan to wipe the game in tandem with the Early Access Patch #1 next Tuesday. Wipe #2 will only wipe players inventories including all items and gold. This time users will keep all their characters and their level progression. Please note that the update will also introduce sweeping balance changes that will affect almost every class, weapon, and item in the game.

We apologize for the delay in the scheduled update and the sudden announcement for the next wipe. We look forward to a new start with the next patch and appreciate all your support.

From the website

[atomic whale]

you got perk to 40s

[void scarab]

I personally still would like to see some type of training/practice grounds. This would allow players to try move sets, skills, gear combos, and the chance to get to know their class prior to jumping into a dungeon. This would also allow players to connect directly with GMs on any issues when working out power balances and etc. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493754/training-grounds-practice-area

[tulip sundial]

damn rogue players on self forever nap watch rn

[short heath]

☠️☠️☠️

Self dirt nap initiated

Legitimately, though, Rogues are just gunna shift to doing poison builds unless they have BIS for Hide/Ambush. I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as most are making it out to be, and I am a Rogue player.

[tulip sundial]

sucks you have to take perks to do the one thing a rogue is good at, being stealthy

[short heath]

I mean, is any class really good at what they're suppose to be good at without perks?

Not with Poisoned Weapon and Rupture.

[tulip sundial]

would be nice to not need a full build to be able to use the specialty of the class

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree

[short heath]

Rogues don't need 4 perks to be useful by any means. If you actually think this, you're not a good Rogue.

[opaque garden]

honestly the trading is busted economy is donezo rn way to much legacy gear. also 15 gold trade fee is getting ridiclous needs to be lowered to 10g

[short heath]

This is a flat out lie.

[tulip sundial]

its not necessary sure, but if someone is playing a low level rogue, they should be able to use his specialty even if they dont have all the perk slots. Perks like double jump, Door breaking, etc. would feel a lot better as class passives than regualr perks

[small furnace]

The base kit rogue dagger apparently only does 13 damage now? Man it's gonna be rough for rogues starting out, anyone new to the game probably won't touch the class.

[short heath]

First of all, double jump shouldn't even be in the game. It doesn't thematically fit at all, and it is legitimately one of the most busted perks in the game even following nerfs. It's not healthy at all for one class to be able to access certain areas that literally no other class can access. Secondly, Rogues have many specialties. Stealth is just one of the typically associated traits with the class.

[tulip sundial]

lmao why shouldnt it be in the game? theres literal magic and walking skeletons and wizards, I think we can suspend our disbelief for a double jump

[short heath]

This is what happens when people complain and suck on copium for a living.

[small furnace]

I get called a rogue shill or rogue main every time I try to say these nerfs were way too much.

Truth is I'm a ranger main and a rogue was one of the only classes that countered me, I'm sitting on easy street with these nerfs now, a rogue jumps me and I just pull out my arming sword and put an end to them while they tickle me.

I did play rogue on the side every now and then, but that's been put to an end with this message has been received from ironmace loud and clear: Do not play rogue.

[short heath]

I don't care about the fact that it isn't realistic... I care about the fact that it gives the class the capability to get to places on the map that no other class can get to, and that's not healthy.

[tulip sundial]

but thats literally rogues thing, hes a sneaky weaseley coniving golbin, makes sense hed be in the rafters. Im a barb, the fuck is he gonna do to me in the rafters

[short heath]

Their goal seems like it was to nerf solo ratting Rogues, which is certainly accomplished with these changes. I don't think that the damage nerfs are anywhere near as bad as people are making them out to be, especially considering poison Rogues weren't even touched.

[ivory quartz]

Yes Double jump never should have been added, neither should hand cross bow. They were added as reactionary buffs to the class people on reddit suggested it. And they were added with no thought or care for what it would do to game balance. Obviously doubling the jump height and giving a class that had no access to one prior a ranged weapon would cause issues.

[small furnace]

Oh yeah geared rogues for sure, but a majority of rogues I see just go in with a green dagger and nothing else, I'm thinkin that won't work to kill me anymore. They're def gonna need some +magic damage or +weapon damage etc.

• They can't even rat anymore unless they trade off all their damaging perks for the hiding ones. So I really have nothing to fear.

[short heath]

They seem to be making the majority of their balancing changes off of HR numbers

[small furnace]

Nobody is playing HR though, it's so weird that we're balancing the entire game off a gamemode that only gets 50% filled lobbies that go to max timer if that is really the case.

They should fix HR so the lobbies are actually getting filled before balancing off of it.

[short heath]

Saying nobody is playing HR tells me that you never really play HR.

[gentle rapids]

I mean… It’s def a smaller population of the game

[small furnace]

What region do you play in? I usually get lobbies filled halfway and then have to wait out the timer.

[short heath]

I play in US East... the only times I don't get full HR lobbies is like 3 or 4 am EST.

[small furnace]

TO BE CLEAR though, I have not played since they upped the ante. I'm talking pre-player-slot-nerf 50%.

[small furnace]

Maybe East is the exception then, I play on West and I can tell you even in the middle of the day I was getting 50% lobbies, and most of those players I never saw (probably rogues)

EDIT: Devs have admitted they want more people to play Highroller as well, so it's not like I'm making this up when I say not many people are playing it. (I was exaggerating when I said nobody ofc)

[daring trail]

Maybe it is possible during East coast Peak hours 7pm-midnight, but i can tell you personally from experience, if you play at like 1 or 2pm, your HR lobbys get 5 people other than you, and that is the MOST ive seen so far

[short heath]

I admittedly don't play during non-peak hours, usually.

Every now and again I'll be playing between midnight and about 7am due to my rotating shifts, but every day from like 3-10pm I always get full HR lobbies.

[small furnace]

Idk, I tried playing at 4PM West and only ended up getting like 10/18 max in HR lobbies back when it was 18.

[daring trail]

Lets be honest here though, the lobby may fill but thats after waiting 4 minutes for it to fill up

[small furnace]

4 PM should be primetime no? People come home from school, work etc... I feel like that's pretty fair of me to presume. So getting only 50% lobbies in those times does feel a bit not so good in terms of HR population health.

[daring trail]

na 4pm is like when people are getting home/ a little before they get home

[small furnace]

That's about when I get off work, and I WFH. I would play HR more if the ante wasn't like this, and also if there were faster queues. The last thing I wanna do is queue up and wait 5 minutes.

[short heath]

If you're under the impression that ~3 mins is long for a queue time, you're a pretty impatient person.

[glacial moon]

You go into normal goblin cave which will have
(0 blue escape portals) -> (There will only be red portals)
Which will force players into a little longer dungeon since they now have to go from normal dungeon and then take a red portal into the high roller dungeon and from here try to escape. Players might die in the normal cave and thus not get into the high roller dungeon which will make it more rewarding for those players which actually survives the normal dungeons and get's into the high roller dungeon.
Lastly ofc remove high roller dungeons from the map section since all players now will automatically be forced into "high roller dungeons"

[daring trail]

One of the biggest turn offs for me in Tarkov is the fact that you are at a minimum waiting 5 mins inbetween games with the loading times.

The waiting times in Dark and Darker is actually one of the most appealing things. You die? cool, you are back in game within 30 seconds

[short heath]

League of Legends queue timers are literally 5-7x longer than this at Masters+

[daring trail]

stop acting like your normal gamers are masters at league LOLOLOL

[small furnace]

Let's be real, it is long for a queue time when the other gamemode only has a 30 second wait time. You can talk about being patient all you want but the downtime between those games is really important to minimize, it's a trend we see in game development that minimizing downtime is the best way to hold onto players.

Also what you said about league timers being longer for masters is fair, but let's be real most people even above-average gamers aren't gonna be masters. If you wanna be generous you can say they're diamond or emerald and those queue times are just fine.

[short heath]

I mean, HR is designed to be where your competitive leaderboard players are at, is it not? That's why there are no leaderboards for no-ante.

[small furnace]

I am pretty sure the devs said there would be normal leaderboards at some point in the future, but only for the purposes of people's self-gratification, they wouldn't give anything.

[daring trail]

My league queues are like 10 seconds- 1 minute, im trash btw

[short heath]

That's not the point. The point is that HR should be comparable to high tier queues in other games.

[short heath]

Bro I'm Masters rn and I'm trash let's be real we all are.

[gentle rapids]

Lol

[small furnace]

If you're waiting 3-5 minutes for a game that lasts 10-13 minutes each time then I would say that's a problem, even when you compare it to other games.

Sure, Masters queue has you waiting like 5 minutes because of the entire lack of players at that level, but that's waiting 5 minutes for a game that will last 20-30 minutes.

The downtime between games being at a higher percent DOES affect player retention, and it's why most people will just default to the normal game even if they have actual reasons to go to HR. (One of the many reasons we see geared deathballs roll through regular lobbies)

Like you can tell people to be patient, but a majority of people just will not want to be patient, which is why it's good the devs recognize that and are trying to increase HR engagement rates.

[scarlet creek]

Yeah, High Roller Goblin caves usually doesn't even get full and everyone could just extract together.

[fleet wolf]

Need a friends list... tired of retyping my buddys obnoxious name every time!!

[small furnace]

In-fact you mentioned league and that's a great example on how we can see the negative affects of bad queue times. Master players typically make smurfs so they can go beat up new players and not have to deal with queue times. Sure, that's not the ONLY reason they do it, but queue times definitely affects it. The same thing we can see happening here instead it's not a matchmaking-based-system. It's just an opt in, and one of the many reasons people are choosing not to opt in is because of the queue times. (I also think the ante is too high)

[glacial moon]

Remove High roller dungeons from the map section and force all players into high roller dungeons by having only red portals at the end of the normal dungeons/caves. This will also give a feeling of longer dungeons since u had to escape from the high rollers.

[short heath]

You and I have very different views on why HR doesn't fill.

[small furnace]

Mine is just very multi-faceted. There's no one reason for why HR is often dead, but I think it would be good for everybody (including casual players that won't ever touch HR) if HR did fill more often.

[magic jackal]

what do you guys think about combining hide and stealth and making hide duration around the same as wizard invisibility but we give rogue some of his damage back

[celest pagoda]

GIVE CLERIC PAVISE

[short heath]

HR is dead because people have gear fear and know that running against other like-geared players lowers their chance of survival significantly (because they aren't actually good, they're just geared).

[junior spade]

Give an option for a refund

[weary spear]

THIS

[small furnace]

That is one of the many reasons yes. As I said my view on it is very multi-faceted and I know we can't eliminate every possible reason for why someone wouldn't run HR, otherwise everyone would. I just think we should remove as much resistance as we CAN without ruining the spirit of the mode in order to actually convince more people to join in.

[grizzled lotus]

Was curious on a thought; What if they had High Roller specific gear? Gear you cant equipt unless in High roller? basically forcing the best gear into the hardest of dungeons?

[short heath]

People don't want this because it prevents them from steamrolling noobs.

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath Maybe not ALL the best gear, but some uniques that are just way more OP or something? So you can steam roll non noobs too!

[fast lily]

I think this is the best solution I've heard for normal vs HR gear disparity.

[small furnace]

I do not think gear restrictions for HR only is the way to go. I appreciate the freedom this game offers and I think the better way to handle it is more incentives.

Probably controversial but I think having a feed in HR would certainly help eliminate some people's fears. Being able to leverage information to better your odds is a part of the game that isn't as present in HR.

Though I might be biased, I've never much liked the idea of: "We removed more of the HUD so the game is hardcore >:)"

[grizzled lotus]

Instance specific items? make it the choice for HR boss clearing?

[short heath]

No amount of incentives will prevent people from rolling their best gear in no-ante lobbies.

[daring trail]

I agree with this to a point, but if you're new to this game, and you are good enough to get 1.5k gold, and go buy a somewhat decent kit.

Your first thought isnt going to be " oh let me go into this mode where people have even better gear than me and literally hunt people down ". I think the hunting is mainly leaderboards, because i dont really remember it ever being that bad.

But seriously, most people can understand where this way of thinking comes from

[small furnace]

Well it's not going to happen completely ofc, but we could lower the frequency in which it happens if more people had reasons to take their kits to HR. I just presented what I think is a pretty good idea on lowering the 'risk' of highroller without actually changing all that much and making people feel more safe bringing their good gear in.

[grizzled lotus]

What about quest incentives?

[short heath]

Leaderboards exist, yes, and people will chase them. If you don't want the competition, don't play a pvp game I guess.

[daring trail]

Yes, this is why no one plays HR. This is why HR is dead

Unfortunately for the health of the game long term, "dont play a pvp game" isnt the answer though.

[short heath]

Because people are afraid of pvp and losing their gear, yes. The fact that AVOIDING pvp at all costs is how people are taught to learn this game from the community is making the problem worse.

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath it's not avoid PVP, it's "avoid difficult PVP"

[daring trail]

afraid of losing their gear, i can get on board with. Avoiding pvp? im sure some people do, but id say most dont actually avoid it. Most play this game for the pvpve aspects.

and when people build up a set they dont want to lose it to jaygriffyuh, the equivalent of a masters league player, but the person who built up a set is gold/plat on a good day

[short heath]

You cannot tell whether pvp will be easy or difficult.

[short heath]

Look at the suggestions people have when I bring up GBMM as a solution to the gear disparity problem. You're entirely wrong.

[grizzled lotus]

If you have solid gear and are solo, you probably go goblin caves for "easy fights"
There are "ways to make it easier" for yourself. It's not garunteed and people still get hard fights, but that's where people hide/run/avoid those fights if they wanted.
People dont want to stress in most cases so yes, you will look for the least stressful easiest choice and hope you dont have to worry

[daring trail]

What am i entirely wrong about, exactly? I didnt even mention anything about gear based match making lol

[small furnace]

@short heath Here's the problem, right?

You have HR, which is a mode intended to have higher risk, and higher reward. Ignoring the fact the reward isn't that much higher unless you're actually killing geared players, we'll pretend that they've magically gotten the reward factor of HR to where it needs to be.

So, in that case... IF you have a system where most geared people don't want to participate because of gear fear, the only people left that are playing it are the ULTRA sweats, career streamers or people playing the game 10 hrs a day, incredibly optimized squads with perfect comms. CURRENTLY, that's kind of what HR looks like for the most part.

Now, the fact that HR looks like that just kind of reinforces the 'gear fear' that people experience, because let's say you're a decent player, average, maybe a little above average. You do a few runs and get lucky and come out with a wealth of items and gold that you can spend on yourself to get a god kit. You get that god kit, but do you really want to go to a mode where every single person is better than you? No, so obviously the logical conclusion is to just bring it into norms and roll normal players which still lowers your risk.

NOW if we can incentivize more of those 'average' players with good gear to participate, that will lower the gear fear immensely, because if you are on a decently leveled playing field in terms of skill then you won't feel as much risk entering into HR. Those are the kinds of people we want to encourage to go into HR, decent/average players that get a god kit. We would rather bring them into HR than have them roll normal games.

Now is it going to be perfect? No, of course not. We're never going to have a system where EVERYBODY who has gear goes to HR, but that isn't to say we shouldn't at least try to get more people with gear participating in HR.

[short heath]

You're wrong about the community not avoiding pvp at all costs/telling people that's the solution to gear disparity.

[fast lily]

The only major problem with HR vs normal queues is that normal queues aren't risky enough and HR doesn't have enough incentive.

HR's incentive is the leaderboard, but a purely vanity, rather hidden cosmetic bonus thing in the form of their name being on a list in a little hidden area isn't enough for most players. Players want tangible rewards. Cosmetics like an exclusive skin or special banner or name color or something to show off their achievement. That doesn't exist. There needs to be a reason to risk that gear that encourages the player to not care about losing it sometimes.

Normal queue is not risky enough because it's easy enough to outgear most players right now once you get going in terms of personal economy.

Locking out certain gear tiers to HR only would limit the personal player strength in normal queue, and encourage players to use their higher gear in HR once they're geared. They still need to make better rewards for HR, but yeah. They could also make it so using gear that's too high tier in now rank nerfs it down to the best possible gear in normal queue.

[ivory quartz]

Yes lets add GBMM next, it is the only way to balance GC

[daring trail]

Im confused how avoiding pvp = GBMM

I've seen one person actually say they want to avoid pvp, it was like 2 days ago in here.

[short heath]

@small furnace I'll respond when I get a moment - I have to put my sons to bed.

[tall axle]

People will trade anyways... they will load into lobbies with people, and do the trading there

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath Remember, most people play the game after work to relax. No one wants to have a stressful day at work just to have to go into a lobby and have stressful fights with everyone. Some people want to spend a few hours walking around like they own the place. Difference is, those people arnt better than the people who are looking for those fights, so when they get steam rolled they get mad(generalizing) So.. HR is a case of "I dont want to do that because id rather not worry about xxx"

Most games, like WoW, would have a reward system for a stressful raid. That way you get your skinner box treat at the end of a "job" and you feel more reward than stress. HR needs something that has that draw. It's a "raid" less than a "dungeon"

[short heath]

This is exactly why I suggest that GBMM be added to no-ante lobbies only.

[small furnace]

I'm pretty sure Onyx knows and meant that when he said "Gear Fear"

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath GBMM removes the casual worker from playing. If i get really good gear 1 day, cant play for 3 days and get back on rusted back up.. im losing that gear immediately when fighting similarly geared active players. Id rather fight noobs for an hour and get off in that case.

Or i dont use it to unrust, and end up never using it because i dont have the time to commit.

[short heath]

It's doesn't. You can accumulate multiple sets of gear and there's nothing preventing you from buying a fully white set for <50g from vendors to take the rust off.

[grizzled lotus]

That's time being used just to be able to use it.

[short heath]

You'd have to use that time anyway in some form within the game.

[small furnace]

I'd probably play HR way more often (once they undo this ante crap) if there was a second storage box honestly. Cause I feel less anxious about losing my gear set if I have backups, but the box only lets me have a couple backups esp with how much slots gold takes up.

[short heath]

Would you rather delay using it for two matches and get good use out of it, or just lose it? That's on the player at that point and not the system.

[celest pagoda]

GIVE CLERIC PAVISE

[short heath]

I think most people don't have the patience or presence of mind to get a full set of good gear and leave it stashed away for running later. @grizzled lotus is a prime example based on what he just said.

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath If you onl have time for 5 matches, than you can use it 3 times or use it once lose it and run naked again.

You can do it, but it's not incentive to run HR. Adding GBMM will make me more likely to run less gear, not run HR.

[small furnace]

Well here's the thing, I've had like streaks where I go like 4 or 5 games farming other people's god sets and capes, but what I always find is that I have nowhere to put the gear I'm either forced to sell it or just give it away because my stash is entirely full. I get to the point where I'm actually internally thinking: "Gee it sure would be unfortunate if I were to die" all sarcastically to myself because dying would free up stash space.

I kind of want to be able to profit off of those fun little streaks I have and then I wouldn't really ever get gear fear cause I know I can reap more than I lose.

[glacial moon]

Remove High roller dungeons from the map section and force all players into high roller dungeons by having only red portals at the end of the normal dungeons/caves. This will also make high roller fills up with more "players" or even make it more rewarding for those players which actually gets though the normal dungeons/caves without dying. I mean, some players might die in the normal cave and thus make it more rewarding for those which survive all the way though because the blue "escape" portals only would be to find in the high roller dungeons/caves.

[short heath]

GBMM is pointed towards the people who constantly run purple+ kits in no-antes making new player/casual player experiences dogwater. It isn't designed as an incentive for casual players to go into HR.

[grizzled lotus]

@small furnace I think something was mentioned of them experimenting with containers... We might get a armor rack or something in the future.

[small furnace]

I do hope so, I understand limiting storage space but currently it's the only thing that prevents me from consistently doing HR. Well, that among the other problems it has. In the time that I've spent in HR I've had a HELL of a lot of fun, and I'd like to be able to continue to participate more.

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath

[short heath]

Yes, people don't want any form of GBMM because it prevents them from punching down.

[small furnace]

I don't think specific gear or GBMM is the way to handle this, but I've been through this conversation with Onyx before so there's no point in us rehashing it we both know where we stand.

[grizzled lotus]

Which you shouldnt remove @short heath People want to be able to feel powerful, and new players should learn that they need to get better gear to not get stomped. It's a healthy balance. You dont go in with a PP7 into a tarkov raid expecting to kill a geared chad. You want to, but it's not something that's expected.

Atleast making the "best gear" unavailable to the locations with those "new players" makes it so the punch down isnt a suplex from the top rope.

@fallen oracle That sounds confusing and awesome at the same time.

[small furnace]

I might not be the target audience for HR either as I usually just don't touch ranked in games, too much stress for no reward and I usually find people in competitive modes are more toxic and unfun to be around.

That isn't to say I'm 'casual' or 'bad' or anything like that, I usually play at a somewhat high level, I just try to avoid stress inducing modes with more toxic people.

Ironmace gonna have to figure out what they want HR to be, if it's strictly the ranked factor then I understand it probably won't be for me, but in the times I DID get to play HR I had a hell of a lot of fun, so I think it would be pretty cool if they tried to incentivize more people to hop in.

[short heath]

If you want the players who constantly run godly kits in no-ante matches to play in HR, you have to force them into it. No amount of incentives will make them do that on their own accord because they already have god kits and serve to gain nothing but racking up player kills when they play, so if they can run a less experienced, less geared lobby choice so they can increase their chance of survival, they will.

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath Aslong as the punchdown isn't** a TKO

[small furnace]

It's kinda weird, I mean I had a few runs in casual lobbies where we went around killing people but in the end me and my squad found that got pretty boring really quickly. We usually ended up helping and escorting 'naked' teams around and only attacking if they fought us first. Cause idk killing nakeds and 'racking up kills' so to speak feels very hollow when it's that easy.

[golden coral]

You're not wrong. Another option would be to add chests to the treasurer to allow players to horde more gold and valuables.

[short heath]

That's the problem. These people are pathetic and arguably sociopathic. They don't care about anything but winning and making your gaming experience worse.

[grizzled lotus]

@small furnace I do that in goblin caves except the first person i see who's friendly i commit the team to, everyone else is now a target. 😛 It's very circumstancial but it's a video game. Depends on the mood you know?

[silent tide]

people think cleric got buffed when really they got nerfed -5 will with smite and judgement is a massive loss

[daring trail]

Good point, is HR suppose to just be better loot/harder experience, or is it their version of ranked?

It seems like HR is just suppose to be harder pve/better loot.

If its suppose to be 'ranked' im not sure why better loot would exist there.. I mean, in league you dont get an in game item in ranked, that you can use in normal mode, thats better than normal mode items.

[grizzled lotus]

@daring trail Almost like they need a "pvp mode" that doesnt have loot, or something that accomodates the current scoreboards.

[opaque garden]

damn this game is fkd now lmfao way to much legacy gear in the game and 15g fee is dumb plus the trading is medieveal takes 4 hours to get sht ur looking for

[grizzled lotus]

Wipe on tuesday. Good bye legacy gear n gold 😄

[small furnace]

For real they really need to setup a system that just auto nerfs gear when it's balanced.

[opaque garden]

for real

[grizzled lotus]

I can imagine that's very difficult to do @small furnace especially given their resources.

[small furnace]

If a gear has +3 and you nerf maximum all attributes to +1 then automatically adjust every existing piece of gear to +1.

@grizzled lotus It would be hard once, all they need to do is setup a system that allows them to do that, something that would sweep the databases and apply said changes.

[grizzled lotus]

from what i got reading the announcement i believe they are working on that system atm.

So it's coming, but still i imagine it's difficult and could take a bit/imagine the bugs(my +3 goes to -1 somehow)

[opaque garden]

should of wiped like a few weeks ago tbh but i guess im glad its finally coming

[grizzled lotus]

They arnt wiping to be able to crack down harder on bug exploiters it looks like, which must be leaving people sweating. 😛 if they wiped earlier they'd have no traces of anything.

[opaque garden]

yeah im just gonna take a break until wipe i love this game but this wipe has been kinda all over the place with meta and gear + changes not even getting applied technically because of legacy items

[grizzled lotus]

Treat it as an excuse to do things you were scared of before.

You're losing everything so spend your gold and go farm a boss and learn it. There is 0 reason to not do it.
Boss will be the same after wipe, but your gear wont 😉 learn to do it with whites and you can get that stuff back pretty quickly.

[weary wing]

Hi everyone, I was wondering if it wouldn't be interesting to create a link between the gameplay around light (torch, the orb of light spell, light in the map, lanterns ) and the way people can hide (invisibility of the rogue, wizard, bard, potions ). To give more flavor to this mechanic, which is the core of the game (it's literally in the name).

[opaque garden]

thats true

[grizzled lotus]

@weary wing Do you mean like a shimmer or something when light hits a invisible player? that'd be cool, promote going invis in darker areas or something.

[fair oasis]

What are some things we could give rogues to make them more helpful for a team? Since they do not want to go full assassin with them? Any ideas? I know I'd want the ability to retrieve my throwing knives for sure, and maybe a group inv, with someone else, or possibly a disguise of some kind!

[zenith vector]

I dont know how to express how disappointed I am at these rogue changes. I've played the game since playtest 2 and mained wizard primarily and rogue as a secondary. After playtest 5, wizard is almost impossible to play early on, especially if you're not in a 3 man. With these changes rogue is unplayable. Daggers do 13 damage? Hide lasts for 14 seconds or less? You need a perk just to use your abilities now. You need a perk to use hand crossbows, a perk to move with hide, a perk for hide to last more than 14 seconds. Plus your move speed and weapon attack speed is reduced on top of doing less damage overall. Ridiculous. I'm disappointed in the game because every balance change is made based off of the top 5% of players just because they're streamers and publicly visible. I'm on the border of asking for a refund because this game is basically turning into a bard and fighter pit.

[grizzled lotus]

@fair oasis Rogue team play is "flanking" or 'baiting'.

In this case, you're more likely oging to run around the other side while your team holds to get back stabs, or hide somewhere and have your team bait the enemies past the rogue so they can be behind. Rogue is about "surprise and stealth" not about "I will run at you and stab you to death" that's the fighters job

[fair oasis]

Okay that's true but what can we give them to help with that ?
Since they can't exactly do that easily (especially since they majority die in a single or two hits)

[grizzled lotus]

@zenith vector Did some math earlier, but pre "nerf" a 15 damage dagger could deal 60+ damage +5hp/s - 35%armor (MAX) in their burst/fast follow up hits.
It was possible to use a dagger to kill someone with max armor as a naked rogue, that isnt right. I do think they need to get that armor pen back from somewhere though, since now they cant get through that 85% armor cap.

[opaque garden]

rogue needed to be tonned down but alot of other classes need changes to and there not doing it ther ejust hard focus tunneling rogue because of some top streamers its nuts.

[grizzled lotus]

@fair oasis Nothing you can give them, that's skill issue more than gear issue. Positioning is what to keep in mind, so as their team mate just try and get the enemies in a good spot for the rogue to do their job. Dont engage a fight and push them way from the rogue or force the rogue into site.

[weary wing]

yes exactly, it could give less power to the invisibility mechanic (I'm thinking in particular of the power of thieves before the nerf without lowering their strength).

In a way, give more ways to fight invisibility and make light more useful.

but I don't know if it's easy to implement in the current game? With brightness values maybe?

[fast sapphire]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494098/pls-fix-pickpocket-rogue pls upvote

[short heath]

Armor pen is fine as it is - they do need a slight buff to flat damage numbers across the board and I think Rogues will be in a very healthy state. Nuking squishies is basically their calling in most games, but they shouldn't be able to nuke plate wearing classes.

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath I forget if it was here or a different discord section but i said somewhere "give 1 dagger armor pen but reduce it's damage" So they have the option.
One dagger deals increased flat damage, but that isnt as nuke like now so it's not "aweful" and if you have armor you can negate it. The other dagger is for "High armor low damage" so if you fight someone without armor it deals basically nothing compared to a normal dagger, but if you use the AP dagger you still deal "not a lot" but a lot more than the traditional dagger would VS higher armor %

It's an idea atleast/

[short heath]

That's not good, though. That gives them an option to be realistically good at murdering everything. They shouldn't be able to murder everyone.

[grizzled lotus]

If you're a skilled player and understand the mechanics of a class you should be able to murder everyone.
BUT if you're a skilled player and understand the mechanics of a class you should be able to avoid being murdered by everyone.

[short heath]

That's inherently bad game design.

[short heath]

Having no true counter to your class doesn't make you skilled, that makes the game design bad.

If the other player literally does nothing wrong vs you and is doing everything optimally and you can still win vs every other class, that's terrible game design.

[grizzled lotus]

just because water puts out fire doesnt mean it puts out all fires.
You can have a counter, but if you're a good player you should be able to play around that counter.

Than it comes down to who can outplay who in the fight.

[short heath]

You aren't playing around it with your actual skill, though. That's the problem. Outplaying a hard class counter should be raw skill, not itemization.

[grizzled lotus]

Itemization is part of counter play in games. Look at league.

[abstract swallow]

hard disagree, itemization and preparation are a key part of dealing with your counters
See: Rangers using Bottles to kill PDR Fighters since PT3

[grizzled lotus]

Running hatchet as a fighter to be able to slow down wizards. 😛

[short heath]

I mean, you're negating any of the nerfs to Rogue by allowing them to nuke plate wearers again. Pick your poison.

[grizzled lotus]

Not nuke. I think it's agreed the damage reduces is to much. a rogue has 0 fair chance if they're fighting a barb or fighter both wearing purple gear.

[short heath]

Not to mention you get zero downsides because you have multiple weapon slots.

If you could only put one weapon on at a time and it took a decent amount of time to swap them, I'd say sure. But that's not the case.

[short heath]

Putting on a specific item to make a hard class counter no longer a class counter is stupid at best.

[grizzled lotus]

It doesnt have to be insane, it can be a low% but just something to bring it up. A rogue should still be able to nuke a fully plated purple in equal gearing if they get a good jump on them. Currently, high HP/armor characters can simply turn around and 2 tap the rogue before in serious danger. So... That can be fixed a bit.
Maybe increase backstab damage?

[cerulean badge]

I am sure this has been suggested before, but is there a reason why the merchants dont always have a standard stock of basic greys of all types they carry? Its such a pain waiting for the padded leggings and rawhide gloves to rotate into the shop for my wizard. It would be nice if just the white/green+ were the only items that rotated in the merchant shops.

[civic zodiac]

Idk what the devs doing with there class killing nerf. Now with rogue nerf solo players who hate goblin cave have just no chance and no interest to play anymore since any average player have 0 chance to fight teams of purples... Theres no reason to play the game anymore for us intill they make a gear related matchmaking or a ssf mode... Rip the game welcone to p2w doninance with gold sellers and whales

[short heath]

Preparation, I agree with. Literally just putting on a different piece of equipment to win against a hard counter is bad design. Also, Rangers using bottles isn't a good example, because EVERYONE can do that.

[short heath]

This is exactly what they wanted, though. Devs wanted less ratting and solos.

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath Maybe make it a perk instead of a flat item stat than? like a perk that increases armor pen while dual weilding the same dagger or something?

[civic zodiac]

Game will die fast if they keep focusing on making it the most p2w possible. I am mostly certain they are the main one selling gold

[grizzled lotus]

@civic zodiac How is it P2W...? Im curious on this one 😄

[short heath]

The game has a gold selling problem just like any newly released game does, sure. It's by no means p2w, though.

[civic zodiac]

Theres no way for solo player to fight purple geared player anymore. Make it valuable to buy gold to gear urself while before u could rogue ur way to success

[abstract swallow]

I don't think you understand the kit-building aspects of the game if you genuinely believe this.
Investing resources and equipslots/inventory to deal with specific classes and compositions has always been a key part of it. People pack maces and crossbows explicitly for this reason on certain classes.
Ranger was a specific example because Plate Fighters were a hard counter that could be itemized for with utilities. If they were in appropriate plate you dealt somewhere in the ballpark of 11% damage without building around bottles and traps.

@grizzled lotus Rogue already has Thrust, so giving Daggers innate armor pen seems reasonable.

[grizzled lotus]

Oh man people are selling their accounts on league of legends! Total P2W! XD

[civic zodiac]

They are making the gear gap bigger wich yeah it become p2w if theres gold sellers on the sector

[grizzled lotus]

@civic zodiac Next you'll say minecraft is P2W cuz there's servers that charge for subsciptions XD

[gentle rapids]

Very much the opposite

[short heath]

Again, bottles is a terrible example. Everyone can use them. We are talking about hard class counters, not utility items being magic damage vs physical damage and using that to counter heavy PDR. Rogues are a class that is basically universally accepted as squishy murderers, and are countered by tanks. The trinity has existed for decades for a reason in these types of games. Taking away that counter makes running anything but a Rogue pointless.

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath What about a like 3s Armor rating drop on throwing knives*? I dont believe throwing knives are class specific.

[civic zodiac]

Stop being delusional. Now theres no way for solo to fight duo and trio of purple gear. Rogue could do it if played smart. Do now having purple gear is more important and safer than ever wich lead to p2w. While with rogue u could fight ur way to success

[short heath]

TKs are class specific to the Rogue.

[civic zodiac]

Anyway i am not playing this game anymore untill they find a way to make gear balanced matchmaking

[grizzled lotus]

@short heath Well... Bard/warlock/wizard/rogue/ranger should all have use of them than, and get a AR % decrease effect for a small burst(2 - 3 seconds for rogues to use that) scaling with "teir"
Might make a better counter play for "all" squishier classes

Throwing axes are fighter/barb only right? Im assuming i mixed up the axes with the knives for class use.

[short heath]

I don't think that's a great idea for a few reasons, mainly being if you are using a TK at anything but effectively point blank range, you very likely will not be able to make use of any form of armor shred it might provide in such a short amount of time due to the amount of time it would take for you to close the gap.

[grizzled lotus]

In my mind, it's a aid more for rogues specifically, but it's allowing use to all other classes. A rogue could use it after someone passes them than go to town with a stab or two for max damage, while a ranger/warlock/wizard might be able to use it in ways, they're less likely to benefit as well from it as the rogue would
The throwing axe already applies a very short slow when it hits people, i assume the knives do aswell but do you really need to slow down a cleric/barb/fighter as a rogue/ranger/wizard? XD

Ranger lands a sick throwing knife followed with a triple shot for max damage. That's a trick shot IMO and deserves a boost in damage. xD

[weary wing]

i try to write something , we will see where it's going https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494105/light-dark-mecanics-rework-stealthinvibility

[grizzled lotus]

It got quiet so.. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494108/armor-rating-on-throwing-knives-green-teir-and-up-aswell-as-more-class-use Feel free to vote.

[silver pike]

Suggestion - how bout not gutting the rogue and make minor adjustments until it feels better rather than as mentioned gut the class. Figured that would have realized when the same was just recently done to Wizards. That is all

[grizzled lotus]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/494113/high-roller-specific-items <--- Also posted this i think we discussed it somewhere in here earlier.

@silver pike Rogues TTK(time to kill) is bad against geared players yes. Rogue TTK before this fix was way to high compared to every other class. It needed to be pulled back, not as far, but pulled back.

[boreal cedar]

From the bottom of my heart. fu! Rouge needed an buff not to be killed cuz few twitchers say they dont like it. Im leaving the game untill its playable again!

[tidal umbra]

bro is here to remind us there are straight basement dwellers in this discord

[silver pike]

@grizzled lotus I agree there is adjustments to many classes and their aspects but the outrageous knee jerk reaction and nerfing them into the fking ground is absolute bs.

[grizzled karma]

Suggestion -

wizard: Arcane Lock spell - create a magic lock on a door

Warlock: shadow manipulation- create shadows or put out torches.
See unseen- spell that reveals an invisible enemy for 5 seconds when popped:

Ranger: arcane arrow- acts like spell casting, but can enchant arrows with different effects (fire, poison, water for torches, lightning stun, ice slows, etc

[grizzled lotus]

@silver pike They're in the right direction in a way. The rogue isnt unplayable, it's just not good in a fair high geared 1 v 1 fight which is hard to guage. If they were able to gauge that gameplay they wouldnt be doing tests for data to see how balance changes were going.

[dreamy rune]

nerf ranger

[patent mauve]

Add luck shrines

[grizzled lotus]

The rogue prefix with a 15damage dagger could do 60+ damage +5hp/s - 35%(max) on first hit out of stealth + the addition hits. 2 - 3 hits against max AR shouldnt be a thing with a 15 damage dagger. You dont kill someone with a tooth pick. It was needed.

[short heath]

I think Rogues are well balanced as it stands, and now there's comparable damage numbers from Poisoned Weapon/Rupture Rogues vs Hide/Ambush. Maybe a little more flat damage to make endgame more in line with other endgame dps classes, but keep armor pen where it is at.

[weary wing]

i like lock idea

what kind of spell level u think ?

[gentle rapids]

Soon 🙏

[twin dagger]

REDUCED THE DAMAGE OF ALL DAGGERS
oh boy can't wait to have to stab a goblin 12 times for them to die

[formal musk]

The best suggestion I have seen that would be very reasonable to implement was from someone in general chat: #the-tavern message

[gentle rapids]

I hope he means HR

[formal musk]

yeah, HR. tldr: split the 150 entry cost between how many in party. 50each for 3man, 75each for 2man, 150g for solo in HR

[gentle rapids]

I like it but you could make the fee a little higher then

(At least how it is now it’s 150 each)

[formal musk]

thats the beauty of it, could be any cost, splitting the cost is beneficial for a good amount of 3man with team fights in HR and punishes rat rogues hiding/looting/not engaging.

[gentle rapids]

Make it 300 to force 3 man’s basically 🫠

[grizzled karma]

i think 2 for shadow manip and 3 for unseen

Also, ranger needs a hawk pet that you can take control of and scout areas with

[gentle rapids]

<.< ranger needs a nerf first dam

[latent tusk]

nerf triple shot asap

[weary wing]

we need to see how they will implement summon and pet control first

[grizzled karma]

i feel you on nerf. nerf them and give them an arcane arrow spell to increase damage

[gentle rapids]

<.< wut

[grizzled karma]

nerf triple shotm, make arcane arrow the new meta

[gentle rapids]

No, just make ranger bad. That is all

[grizzled karma]

lol

what about fighters running around with long bows?

[gentle rapids]

They have a dmg nerf to them

Ranged weapon slow needs to get removed entirely (crossbows can keep a little)

[grizzled karma]

agreed on that

id like more crossbow perks as well

[gentle rapids]

Eh, the one that exists is fine but a skill would be nice

[grizzled karma]

shoot through wall skill? XD

[dreamy rune]

I'm so excited for wipe and the ranger nerfs, also I think the devs need to have a look at high-roller, can almost never break even even with potion of luck

[gentle rapids]

Uh… kill people?

[dreamy rune]

no one to kill most of the time in oceania and then its just rogues that run away

[gentle rapids]

That’s understandable actually, but that’s where the money is rly

[granite plinth]

@dawn grotto here's a suggestion. fix your goblin mage that doesn't show any effects on the ground that does 70% of the health and some how has the most arbitrary aoe in the game.

Literally had a mage behind a pillar cast whatever that nuke is, not have ANY idea where it lands, I press W for 3 whole seconds and fall over dead. Great NPC ya got there

Punishing PVE shouldn't mean having a jank ass game.

Ban me i dont care. It's jank and it's existed since the NPC was implemented and it's absolutely ridiculous it still persists.

[gentle rapids]

You’re not gonna get banned for being bad at pve

[shut sage]

how do i create a chan ? :X

[granite plinth]

Homie, tell me where the spell lands in the game, and why if it persists on the ground for more than 1 second why there isn't some affect that shows it

[rigid prawn]

Bring back drum meta

[warm helm]

Remove Trade chat and change the gathering hall to an actual place you load into with like 100 other players. (no pvp or pve in the gathering hall). You can link your items in global chat but if you want to trade someone you actually have to walk to where they are in the gathering hall.

[grave veldt]

Don't ping the Devs for stuff like this please, use the polls, link is in the pinned post

[granite plinth]

@grave veldt understood.

[grave veldt]

Thanks dude 👍

[gentle rapids]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493370/make-trade-actual-trading

[warm helm]

@gentle rapids i dont think gold should be removed for trading. I think trading is fine as it is but should be more intimate and require you to actually walk to the person. I also wish there was just a place to hang out chat in Voip and show off gear

[gentle rapids]

That could happen down the line, I just think removing gold from trading would alleviate some problems right now and people would have less stash space devoted to only coins

[languid spoke]

seems relatively straight forward to make coins stack higher...?

[stark sonnet]

Buy a key

[warm helm]

@gentle rapids i think they should just make it so gold does not take up space in your stash. Only takes up inventory space when you withdraw. Set a cap tho so people arnt storing millions

[stark sonnet]

Buy a key 1250 for 2 slots

[gentle rapids]

Keys aren’t necessary as “currency” and they won’t crash like they did

[warm helm]

@stark sonnet buying and selling keys is annoying and not intuitive. imo

[stark sonnet]

It's the best option at the moment but yeah not the best solution possible of course

[gentle rapids]

Gold would be only for merchants and fees, items would be for trading

[warm helm]

@stark sonnet using keys as currency totally destroys there intended use. No one is opening the gold room

[gentle rapids]

But we’d need more stash space for my suggestion anyway, but they said that’s planned so…

[stark sonnet]

It's just EA, they're going to add a ton of stuff that's not currently in the game they're working on it I don't think gold for trading is bad tho

[warm helm]

@stark sonnet neither do i

[gentle rapids]

My main selling point is that the focus of the game goes back to getting items from the crypts instead of farming gold to grind trade. It’s not perfect but it could help idk

[dreamy rune]

i totally and wholeheartedely agree

[gentle rapids]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493370/make-trade-actual-trading

[grizzled karma]

I saw a post on that suggestion website that talked a bout a physical place to trade. thats what we need

[gentle rapids]

Sure, I feel like that’ll happen anyway but way down the line

[abstract swallow]

the game will always be about 'safely' grinding gear or gold from GC until it's dead in the ground or removed tbh
having a faster paced, lower risk, lower 'level' area basically damns the game to that lowest common denominator

[dreamy rune]

i voted <3

[waxen flame]

Really like this suggestion, would make mindlessly farming gc (with or without gear) a lot less viable and would encourage people to spend their gold on stuff like HR

[gentle rapids]

👍

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree

[drowsy grotto]

Remove song of chorale, it's the shittiest designed song in the game hard-countering wizard in literally every way.

[hot hemlock]

Terrible idea, lets punish people who drop good things for other classes who dont have something of fair value to offer!!!

[gentle rapids]

wdym

[hot hemlock]

Your suggestion is just punishing people who find gear not usable by their class

[gentle rapids]

That’s exactly what you would use to trade

[hot hemlock]

So when they dont have fair value to offer you just have to waste stash space

[gentle rapids]

I did mention my suggestion would only work with more stash space… which they are planning on adding. You could also just trade two items for one of both parties agree

[hot hemlock]

So whats the point of the suggestion