suggestion-discussion

[stuck perch]

Make it so you can start the off hand blow before the animation for the first one finishes unless your attack is blocked or hits the enviroment.

[short heath]

They just need to give dual wielding an attack speed boost if the player is switching between primary and off-hand weapons between each attack.

And reduce the movespeed penalty of the off-hand weapon by half when dual wielding.

[rigid prawn]

That or combined animations by holding down both mouse buttons at once.

[arctic lagoon]

dark souls 2 power stance moves, left click one weapon swing right click swing both

[stuck perch]

While that would be great it can't work like that in the current system. Dual wielding requires your to r-click to use the off-hand and l-click for the main hand and everything that can block or parry requires you to r-click to get into defensive stance. They would have to retool one or the other.

[short heath]

That would be horrible and extremely hard to balance.

[stuck perch]

It kinda already works like that for dual wield fighter.

[short heath]

You don't ever swing both weapons at the same time though, unless I'm understanding his suggestion wrong.

[stuck perch]

With the perks it's a flurry of blows at the same time. What ever that is, it works. Specifically the arming sword+shortsword combo

[rigid prawn]

Maybe, I have faith in the devs that they could make it not so, but we’re talking about ways to make it better and that’s an obvious one. Weapons would still work the same way (only hit if the weapon actually connects with the player model) so if your for example doing a double slash with the weapon from two different directions, the point the weapons hit at the same time would be very specific, otherwise your missing with one.

Dragging become an issue as it always been but that’s a game wide issue

[arctic lagoon]

idea for ranger and rouge weapon type: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489776/weapon-for-rouge-and-ranger-scimitar

[short heath]

I mean, dual wielding would literally immediately become the only way to play if you had double swing animations. Being able to hit a headshot and a body shot at the exact same time against any squishy is instadeath.

[ivory quartz]

With the stats of the offhand weapon applying as well, there is already an advantage to dual wielding.

[short heath]

The movespeed penalty makes it not worth running in 90% of cases.

[rigid prawn]

theres still downsides that exist currently, liek both weapons adding to your total weight, but adjusting damage values and such nis an ongoing process that would apply to dual weilding as well.

[stuck perch]

It's better than single 1 hand with no shield being the meta. It would of course have to be balanced between that 1hand and board, and 2hander.

[short heath]

Not at all. Less oneshots. Not more.

[stuck perch]

Just make parrying it stop and open a window for punishing.

[ivory quartz]

If you have loaded stats on both weapons its worth doing, if you are either a slayer warrior or rogue, which are the two classes that benefit from dualwield play style. I agree not much reason to dual wield on barb ever.

[short heath]

Every weapon needs to be able to parry if you even want to consider this an option.

[rigid prawn]

Could make it harsh weapon recovery on miss like the barbs have as well, lots of ways to balance it since a high dps is the reason you would use dual wielding

[short heath]

The problem is avoiding onetap potential while maintaining high dps. Double swing animations would not work, imo.

[stuck perch]

I'm not saying double swing, just let us start the off-hand swing 0.5s before the other one ends.

[rigid prawn]

at certain gear thresholds vs certain classes, i dont think your ever getting rid of 1 shots as long as barb exists in the game. I think its a decent idea that worth exploring before shunting it out the door with out consideration

[short heath]

That's fine. Increased attack speed when switching between primary and off-handed swings is fine.

[short heath]

"Endgame gear lets the classes that you'd expect would be able to oneshot people to oneshot people, so why not let classes that don't normally oneshot people just oneshot people kekw"

Wut

[rigid prawn]

only issue with that is now we have the dark souls problem of the player looking like an unexperienced sword figther trying to compensate. only thing that works for currently is rondel castialln since im pretty sure they are the only 2 weapons theyve thought of when it comes to weapon flow

[short heath]

Bro, if anything we need to get the hell away from oneshot mechanics in general. A fully kitted Barb with a unique/legendary two handed axe is a no-brainer to oneshot a squishy if they're allowed to touch them.

[stuck perch]

Those don't seem to flow very well when used together. it's better to use one or the other depending on attack patter. On the other hand, Arming sword and short sword with slayer perks does work quite well.

[arctic lagoon]

maybe different classes towards stats should have more curved stats? like plateu certain things on certain classes

[rigid prawn]

Thats not exactly what i said, the problem were fixing here is rangers lack of melee presence or introducing new game play opportunity into the game. the oneshot issues is unrelated although it could contribute to it yes.

@stuck perch Yeah i dont know short sword animation in generals pretty trash imo. the overhead looks paniced lol

[arctic lagoon]

like 25 agility on bard is different than 25 on rouge

[stuck perch]

Maybe, but I'd wary of such things because it would make everything hell to balance. Like you'd have to balance the falchion differently for fighters, bards, and warlocks for example.

[short heath]

Rangers should have a lack of melee presence. They are proficient in ranged combat and mediocre at melee combat.

[rigid prawn]

In your eyes maybe, but thats not a rule that many rangers in previous forms of media portray. Ranger doenst mean "ranged weapon user" it means warden of the woods, like a park ranger.

[short heath]

You're legit asking for a Fighter. Just play Fighter.

[arctic lagoon]

ranger and fighter do share overlap in design tho

[short heath]

Yes, and the changes he is asking for make that worse.

[stuck perch]

Melee is listed as one of the ranger class' downsides, you can't just increase their melee presence while disregarding that. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't have some melee options. The try the arming sword+short sword on a slayer fighter with Slayer+dual wield+combo attack and the adrenalin skill. See how it feels as you blender npcs and players. Although you're almost as squishy as a rogue with less movement speed.

[cold thicket]

Gold Bars that act as better storage and a gold sink. IE craft a gold bar for 400 gold but only get 300 back when selling to merchant as an example

[short heath]

I don't think I've ever played a game where Ranger wasn't the specified ranged weapon user, and I've been playing video games for over 30 years.

[arctic lagoon]

ranger does ahve melee options tho, i do think the side arm sword should be more of an option than just using bows

[short heath]

Dawg, they already have melee options. They can use traditional smaller swords and the spear.

[stuck perch]

Even if he got more melee options, he shouldn't get skills that he can use in melee.

[arctic lagoon]

one takes a perk

[rigid prawn]

No im asking for multiple gameplay options for the existing classes that arent an option currently. fighter has different perk setups and rangers bring different things to the table with traps etc.

@stuck perch I have tried many slayer builds and found the best way to play it is with a castillion offhand with a falchion or something to gain the effects of the dual wield perk without having to actually right click ever and minimalize the ms debuff that wield 2 weapons give you. ive used the short sword a ton and dont even bother picking up BIS ones since i find the moveset so trash compared to other off hands. its a personal preference. Rangers could benifit from the devs relooking at dualweilding mechanics as well, but their melee weakness stems from how fragile they are. The classes are tier 1 implementation at best, everything is subject to change.

[short heath]

Yeah, because a Spear isn't a naturally utilized weapon by the class in any game ever.

[short heath]

Bro you can already suck at melee with a Ranger in multiple ways. If you wanna dual wield but also be able to use a bow, play Fighter. There's way too much overlap between the two already, lets not make it worse.

[rigid prawn]

Its hard to talk to if you result to attacking character instead of addressing my points and its flaws. The latins calls this mental gymnastic ad hominum. Your lack of ability to see that an EA game can drastically change things and the inveitable expansions of these characters designs is holding you back. The overlap could get much much worse if they decide to add things like multiclassing or even subclasses. Im asking for recognized media representation of rangers to be included in the game, considering their inspirations for the game its not that ridiculous to consider.

[short heath]

Imagine typing for 3 minutes to only be misinterpreting what I said.

I was saying that Rangers suck at melee.

Talk about mental gymnastics and insecurity though, lul.

[rigid prawn]

Fair enough it was worded weirdly, doesn't change my point that rangers getting dual wielding or a longsword wouldn't break the game beyond repair. This is the point in development where you change things drastically and experiment, and based on your history of conversation with others i dont think it was a jump to think thats where you were coming from

[short heath]

Dual wielding on Ranger in itself is fine. Making an animation or skill where you swing both weapons at the same time while dual wielding is not.

[lapis anvil]

QOL REQUEST: Please let us rotate items in inventory!

[rigid prawn]

Your only reasoning is that it would oneshot. This is an assumption since even if you hit with both dual wielded weapons currently its doesnt kill someone unless your running purps+ and your fighting defaults. Your making excuses of balance against something that hasn;t even been tested in game yet. Give an actual reason why they shouldnt expand dual wielding to be more than holding another weapon that you can choose to use in your offhand like it is currently.

[scarlet creek]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489734/another-ranged-throwing-weapon-the-javelin

[stuck perch]

They're not that fragile, at least no less so than rogues and bards.

[rigid prawn]

They are a squishy though. could be a balance point worth looking at but ive never played a ranger at higher gear thresholds that took more than 3 swings from a blue

[short heath]

Yeah, oneshot mechanics are not healthy for any game, let alone giving that ability to a class that doesn't typically have the capability to do so/isn't known/designed around being able to do so. That goes so far beyond class design considerations it isn't even funny, but beyond oneshots being mechanically bad for games in a general sense and Rangers not being Rogues or Barbarians (classes you'd imagine COULD oneshot, given a near-ideal or actually ideal scenario), now you have to reconsider and individually address dual wield weapon damage and headshot multipliers if you're not making this animation a skill. If you're making it into a skill they can use, now you need to balance how often they can use it and what the downside to using the skill might be if you want it to be as powerful as that would be. If you want there to be no downside, you have to make the skill reduce your damage by a certain amount, which devs will then have to decide that to be either per each individual weapon or total damage dealt through a form of an average, and what if only one weapon hits? Do you just flat deal half damage? There's a LOT to go into what you're asking for. I've provided a lot more than you're claiming I have, and there are MANY previously stated "actual reasons" that it shouldn't exist... the main one being that oneshot mechanics are bad.

[stuck perch]

One shot mechanics are kinda bad, but the really bad ones are the ones that have no counter play or risked involved in using them.

[short heath]

Also, it is hilarious that you think that gray squishies wouldn't die to a gray double swing animation like this. A headshot and a body shot absolutely kills gray squishies (at any tier, given weapon appropriate) with even junk weapons.

[winged mortar]

Keep ruins duo. Add ruins high roller trio

[rigid prawn]

Dude, now your doing what you claimed i just did, reading comprehension lol. Im not arguing for the ranger getting the ability to oneshot, im saying your jumping to conclusion thinking that adding unqiue dual wielding animations to the game will do so. Ive also offered many way to balance it as well, like increased recovery on a missed swing etc, but if you would kindly link or repost your other points beyond 1 shot being the issues ide gladly respond to them.

Reality is that adding dualwielding animations to the game would make dual wielding way more fun to use than in its current state.

Also add longsword to ranger

[stuck perch]

Then increase the health of players across the board so they have more to work with without nerfing damage ridiculously. Or without players needing stack PDR to ridiculous levels to be able to take a few blows.

[short heath]

Brother, take a gray weapon up to a Wizard in gray and hit him once in the head and then once in the body.

[rigid prawn]

ive done so with many weapons, but horrible example considering wizard is by far the SQUISHIEST class in the game besides unbuffed bard. If your complaining about TTK than thats fine but its the devs prerogative at that point. It seems they want weapons to feel lethal but we will see what happens down the road

[short heath]

Willful ignorance, got it. Not worth my time.

[rigid prawn]

Lol you really need to work on your communication skills. So far youve stated that oneshot meta is bad, i agreed and said that dualwielding wouldn't contribute to this since the damage theresholds are so low compared to other glaring issues, and theres ways to balance with specific matchups. You have just stated "no cause oneshot" multiple times without bring much else to the convo. Call me what you want but the text is re readable. Reflect.

[stuck perch]

They can either let weapons feel lethal or let the fights last a bit longer so people have time to make impactful decisions rather than only split second reactions.

[pale dust]

Should we do something about spider surfing? https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488494/get-rid-of-spider-surfing

[rigid prawn]

ALLOW US TO GOOMBA STOMP

[short heath]

You're willfully ignoring that I said dual wielding in itself is fine, but double swinging is not because it would result in a oneshot in many cases against squishy characters, and a Ranger (and Fighter) is not a class you'd expect be able to do that. Until you decide to read wtf I am actually writing, I'll leave you and your ad hominem to yourself.

[pale dust]

yes please 100%

[violet sonnet]

fix the ruins spawns?

[supple wagon]

CHANGE RUIN SPAWNS

[stuck perch]

Wouldn't the starting the off hand strike start 0.5s before the end of the other animation be a good compromise? it's a bit more dps than swinging a single weapon but not as much as full double swings.

[short heath]

I've already said this twice - yes, increased attack speed is fine.

[stuck perch]

You did but you guys are still arguing with your initial positions.

[muted nova]

press f to Goomba stomp

[short heath]

Talk to @rigid prawn he is the one stuck here.

[stuck perch]

What about you @rigid prawn?

[rigid prawn]

And im saying that logic is flawed since current weapon damage thresholds dont support what your saying since even shortsword and arming sword, the largest damaging dualwielding combo thats currently available to ranger, cant 2 shot anybody in equal gear (wizard aside, since he dies to everything) Im saying we should try it out ingame and make our decisions then. Your trying stop it at the door. Give me 1 more example of why combined animations are a bad idea beyond your oneshot argument since we seem to be at a impasse.

@stuck perch Anything to help the current jank system. More flow makes dual wielding easier to look at. right now it looks like somebody trying it out for the firstime and they are afraid to hit their own hands lol

[short heath]

Dawg you LITERALLY JUST SAID YOURSELF that gray Wizards die to two swings from junk weapons. It exists. Stop being willfully ignorant.

[stuck perch]

Stop getting angry, it doesn't help get your point across.

[short heath]

I can't tolerate stupidity man.

[gentle rapids]

Then you might wanna stop coming on this discord

[short heath]

Hard not to when I actually give a damn about the game.

[rigid prawn]

And i LITERALLY JUST SAID that i acknowledge that, but they are the exception. The reality of the situation is that currently whoever hits first wins, you can mordehau dodge / space and such to increase the skill difference and put yourself in the advantageous situation, but currently most fights at equal gear come down to whos landing the first hit. If you want to argue that wizard should be more tanky, i would argue that its one of the major ways to balance wizards complete and utter domination at higher gear thresholds.

[scarlet creek]

Man, that's 3 games in a row my friends and I have been destroyed by geared out people in crypts

I 4 hit a rubysilver fighter in the head, but sadly did not do enough damage even with rage and achilles

[short heath]

There is no exception to whether a oneshot exists or not, lul. And it wouldn't just be Wizards, you could onetap Rogues and Bards with it as well. Damage scaling is too high for something like this. Get over it. Unless they tune back damage scaling or tune armor up, this will never be okay.

[rigid prawn]

Hey now your getting it, tuning things to make it work is what this point of development is about. You can get hardstuck in your opinion and cross you arms if you want, but the current dual wielding systyem in underutilised cause it dooty. Chances are, things are going the change dramatically, including the chance of them revisiting dual wielding in the future. Hope your prepared to "get over it" when that time comes!

[warm matrix]

hello 🙂 how can i make a suggestion in this channel ? (pdf)

[muted nova]

you dont

[warm matrix]

ok ty^^

[rigid prawn]

there's a part of their website that you can make actual suggestions that people can vote on, this channel is only for discussion (the devs dont read what we say in here often if at all). https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/

[spark sonnet]

Wizard

[warm matrix]

ty i tried it on that side, but 1000 letters is way less than my suggestion has^^'

[nimble solstice]

remove bard, remove added armor and phys reduction. thanks

[rigid prawn]

I would recommend trying to break up your idea into smaller seperate ideas if its cant be explained in 1000 words. Short and concise suggestions will naturally do better since people might agree with parts of what you say but not others, and also since a large part of any community falls into the TL/DR crew and wont even read what youve posted

[warm matrix]

its my brainstorm about a monk class 🙂 i think breaking it appart wont work that well. But ty for your time to answer ^^

[rigid prawn]

Hey no problem! Feel free to post it in here so we can discuss it though!

[warm matrix]

xD i guess they removed the post cos they thought its spam xD haha sad

so i cant post it in here 🙂 but maybe i can get them to respond or give it to a streamer^^ so they can discuss it with the community 🙂

[rigid prawn]

Dang! you could try breaking the post up into specifics like what weapons would he use? What would his perks be? etc, otherwise it might be a lot for us all to parse at once lol

[warm matrix]

i broke it appart already^^' just tried to post the characteristics and scaling 🙂 but maybe only one of them would do

[muted nova]

make sure you don't accidentally post a suggestion that's already made if you can, I see alot of that

[warm matrix]

ah i cant, i literally have less words than people posted above and it still is "spam"..

Weaponless: Left Click: Fist Combo (4-5 Hit Combo)
Right Click: Kick Combo (4-5 Hit Combo)
Monks can alternate their left and right click attacks to create a combination of those (Left1 Left2 Right3 Left 4) (Fist1 Fist2 Kick3 Fist4)

Ducking/Jumping + Attack changes it slightly: Jump+Right= Jump Kick
Duck+Right= Sweep Kick (CC?)
Jump+Left= short dash attack
Duck+Left=?

Fighting „weaponless” will result in having free space in the weapon slots. Therefore, the monk needs something else to find to get the boni normal players would get with weapons: there could be a few options implemented but the easiest would be to find hand ties that give boni (left and right hand). The glove slot will stay empty (for balance) or can be used otherwise (maybe still gloves possible because weapon swapping exists). (Another possibility: People can find scrolls with fighting moves on it. Those scrolls are equipped in the „Weapon slot “and change the move set on the monk)

Perks for the monk could let him choose from different fighting styles (snake, tiger, crane, etc.) which could be combined with the training thing that you want to implement. I think mobility and utility would be one way to play him. Maybe with a perk he trades those for a more dmg focused build.

Perk idea: maybe a perk which gives boni if unarmored or weaponless
Staff Master: e.g. You are able to block arrows with your swing attack.
Drunken Master: (Gives you Armor or more strength) harder to hit`? or being able to dodge an attack while in the drink animation (faster drink animation)
Double Jump would be nice to have a second class with that Perk

[rigid prawn]

lol i think its cause your copy pasting, try pasting it and wait 30 seconds then post, on a glance not bad!

Could take some inspiration from TTD&D and give them skills like Flurry of blows or patient defence! Catching arrows and sending them back like genji could make a viable counter to ranger meta too

[warm matrix]

i post the skills, gear and stats later 🙂 i think the core is the alternating combos so that a master of fists can really shine

master of weaponless fighting*

[rigid prawn]

like fighting game combos where they add up to an end result action, you could look at a first person example being kingdom comes weapon combos

[warm matrix]

i think making combos like in street fighter will be difficult to implement and also hard in an fps game. but combos like in for honor 🙂 would be possible: staff left clicks are different pokes and staff right click are different swings. beeing able to combo each of them mixed up would be quite possible i think

[visual hazel]

i feel like using the steps perk on rogue while in hide should cut down the remaining duration based on steps taken. Getting really tired of a rogue crouching in a corner for half a minute and appearing behind me

[rigid prawn]

yeah maybe not street fighter levels of difficulty considering we are working with 2 buttons here lol, could include movement direction at most to matter, an example of a first person game doing this would be skyrim. For honor is similar to my Kingdom Come example since they both use directional fighting but handle it in very different ways. I don't know if it could get even get that complicated since first person would be nausea inducing lol but the idea of stringing combos is unique in this game and would make the monk class stand out more than "the guy who punches thing" as it would be with the current unarmed system. I like your perk ideas!

[warm matrix]

yeah the combo stringing could be something unique to the monk^^ and would be very cool!

[rigid prawn]

Wouldn't mind that as an additional way to look at dual wielding improvements @stuck perch! The idea of having the order you attack with the weapons create different weapon animations would make the advantage of dual wielding be the unpredictability of whats coming next

[tall mist]

I think they should just make that song a protection pot instead it would make it so so much better

[hardy valley]

ranger lfg

[atomic whale]

spiders are the essence how bad mobs are

[somber wind]

[Weapons]
* Whip (Ranger, Druid)
* Flail (Cleric, Fighter)
* Flamberge (Fighter, Paladin)
* Shotel (Fighter, Paladin)
* Scimitar (Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin)
* Estoc (Rogue, Fighter, Paladin)
* Blackjack (Rogue)
* Club (Barbarian, Cleric, Druid)
* Greatclub (Babarian)
* Executioner's Sword (Fighter, Paladin)
* Claymore (Fighter, Paladin)
* Horseman's Pick (Fighter, Cleric, Paladin)
* Broadsword (Fighter, Cleric, Paladin)
* Longmace (Cleric, Paladin)
* Glaive (Fighter, Monk)
* Lance (Fighter, Paladin)
* Pike (Fighter)
* War Pick (All Class)
* Bolas (Rogue, Ranger, Druid)
* Siangham (Monk)
* Scythe (All Class)
* Katar (Rogue, Monk)
* Claws (Rogue, Monk)
* Sickle (Rogue, Monk, Paladin)
* Kusarigama (Rogue, Monk)
* Odachi (Barbarian, Fighter)
* Guisarme (Fighter)
* Blowgun (Ranger, Druid)

[Utility Slot]
* Javelin (Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger)
* Sling (All Class); Can roll modifiers.

Thoughts on if any of these should exist? Gave some ideas of what classes could use them. I included Druid, Paladin and Monk into consideration (I didn't include Sorcerer or Artificier since I don't have a good idea of what fits them well enough).

[sick crag]

would love to see item slot filters in trade channel, for example being able to sort by Boots, Pants, Etc.

[warm matrix]

looks nice 🙂 currious to see how a whip would work in this game

for monk weapon i would like tonfas and nunchakus as well ^^

[ivory quartz]

I would like to see more weapons added in the future, maybe an expansion that adds a bunch of weeb shit. But there are much more worthy additions at the moment like finishing warlock adding druid and the talent tree, and possibly even more maps or more variations on the ones we have.

[warm matrix]

thats true as well^^ talent tree, quests and new classes are also priority for me 🙂

[ivory quartz]

As a rogue main, I kinda agree. The class right now only has one strat and that is ambush kill. Maybe making hide have a lower cooldown, but not last as long would be interesting. Like a 20 second cooldown, but it only lasts 10 seconds. Problem with that change is it would let rogues abuse ambush, but nerf ambush and they cant kill anything and just die in one hit. It is a tough balancing act with that class and it might need a rework away from damage and toward survivability and stealth+mobility.

[ivory quartz]

I think we need quests bad something, as simple as kill 10 skeletons get 100 gold as a daily would be really helpful for the low gear underclasss of this game to get on their feet.

[somber wind]

Oh for sure, it's why I included other classes that aren't out yet; this is just over time. The "weeb" weapons I picked mostly because they fit Monk and outside of that I avoided things like Katana or other things that are just outright weeby with the exception of the Odachi (You could say Kusarigama and Siangham are weeb but they fit monk REALLY well so I decided it was fine). The Odachi I went with because it was considered a Barbarian weapon so I thought it'd be nice to give Barbarian an Ultra Longrange weapon.

[somber wind]

I'd love it if it had increased damage if you hit with the tip.

[amber rivet]

We already have a genji, it’s called rogue. Double jump, throwing knives, speed, annoying, aka genji

[somber wind]

We had incentive but hackers were using the treasure hoard through the wall so it's temporarily not available.

[ivory quartz]

Oh no I like weeb shit, and hope they add katans and tantos and naginatas and all that stuff, I think they are fun, but I think adding new weapons shouldnt be a priority. A lot of tarkov development went from actually adding stuff the playerbase cares about or new maps to just adding new weapons So I hope we expand on the more needed features first.

[somber wind]

Oh no 100% I agree with you, I didn't think it should be a focus either. If anything we should have a system of what items can spawn where so we don't have an overload of items in the item pool. For example; What items can spawn in chests should be based on what dungeon you're in I think. If we're going to have any eastern weapons they should come from an eastern dungeon, if we're going to have lances I kinda want Horseback Skeletons, etc.

[ivory quartz]

Yeah that would be intersting and a great idea if we ever have different themed dungeons.

[rigid prawn]

Was referencing his reflect ability specifically since patient defence on monk would play similarly as it allows you to catch arrows and throw them back. mechanically they would be similar.

[ivory quartz]

I think something like Genji while cool, and intersting from a gameplay standpoint, may be a little too fast or honestly cartoony for the game they are making. I also somewhat doubt if it would be possible to implement.

[blazing gyro]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489853/rework-bard-mindfully

Only a 1k character limit on suggestions LMAO... no downvote option. gg wp

[rigid prawn]

Im not recommending adding genji to the game in the slightest lol, hes referencing a post i made about potential monk mechanics where i referenced genjis reflect ability as a mechanic that could be used in monks patient defence ability from TTD&D

[somber wind]

Yeah the limit of 1k is really bad. I've noticed people use the comments and write the suggestions in parts. Downvoting also not existing makes things super skewed.

[blazing gyro]

Yeah, well I wrote what I could.. I might elaborate later in the comments. I am curious to see how people take that block of text alone, though..

[ivory quartz]

Oh my appologies, I didnt see the above posts. I was just imagining the ability you described to be like the one we see genji use and was criticising that. But I think your right about a sort of defense stance ability that reflects things similar to what we already have with Aegis would be good idea.

[rigid prawn]

No problem! Specifically i think it would help address the "ranger advantage" by adding a direct counter to arrows. Having a class that can turn incoming projectiles into weapons makes rangers think twice about triple shotting a longbow down a hallway lol

Also give us a chance to give the crossbow skelly a taste of its own medicine lol

[uneven geyser]

Add the ability to sit down/rest after drinking an invisibility potion

[somber wind]

Nah I wasn't saying I wanted to downvote I was just commenting on what you said. That said It does sound biased enough that I didn't want to upvote it. I enjoy bard being jubilant and funny; I don't think it takes away from the gritty atmosphere. Bards are ment to cut that atmosphere eitherway. It's too strong with specific classes though as you said. It's the last part that makes me not upvote though as I don't want the funny of the class to be removed. If there was downvoting though I wouldn't I don't think it's a bad suggestion, just not exactly what I'd want for changes to bard.

[blazing gyro]

Oh, well I mean... I have nothing against the goofy or funny aspect of the bard... That is a large part of what bard is known for in D&D lore.. the silver-tongued charismatic funny and mindful devil, right? But when you have the songs that are silly/frilly/funny etc.. be 3 bars of music.. with no cooldown.. that is spammable.. This is bad, bad design. We are talking about music, where you would expect a master musician to be playing a song. Not a quick random flurry of seemingly out of place notes, especially when you are considering that they just roll through the buffs and it doesn't sound like it is being played by a musician trying to entertain anyone when doing this.. It's like listening to a schoolkid beat on their random drumset and then hear them play some ear-grating few bars of flute music.

Absolutely I have bias against bard. The game was exponentially better before it was introduced imo, both balance and atmosphere-wise. However, I appreciate your take.

[drowsy grotto]

I think the only class with an issue in this game is barb

Only issue being the fundamental idea of a high damage and slow speed character having opportunities for keeping other players immobile and being able to go extremely quick with rage.

[blazing gyro]

But in 1v1 you can just bait the barb's swings, space it, then take the free no damage taken trade.. and as long as you aren't weighed down too much by your armor.. you can just outmaneuver them, as long as they don't land an achilles fran axe, no? The only time a barb has killed me in 1v1 is when I outright misplayed. Their swing speed is so slow and it's not hard to bait most players into swinging first.

Give the barb bard/wiz buffs.. and now I want to play a new game if I am alone.

[drowsy grotto]

If you have the speed and if you aren't achillies struck that'd be true.

[blazing gyro]

Ye, it really comes down to not being hit by achilles. Whether that skill is balanced or whether barb is in a good spot individually vs a skilled player, Idk.

What I do know is a good wiz can 1vX any lobby they want.

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree

[rigid prawn]

honestly clashing would add a lot to the games combat diffculy curve ill upvote

[abstract swallow]

Achilles will never be balanced in 1v1, because it's a skill designed around teamplay. The entire game is designed for 3v3, anything smaller is meant to be very matchup dependent and unbalanced.

[unique locust]

[rigid prawn]

This is exactly what more people need to understand. Goblin caves before the influx of EA might have been bad for expectations of 1v1 fairness with the EA crowd although i still think it a good addition to the game overall. Just need to curb people expectations a bit to understand that there are advantageous matchups and poor matchups

Also i really like the duo modes addition of these mini 2 man synergies, really creates a good learning environment for class matchups

[atomic whale]

francisca damage is joke

[drowsy grotto]

I think they should simply nerf achillies strike then buff his agility or smthi
(notably: REMOVE THE DAMAGE FROM MOVING)

The slowness +10 phys damage extra is enough for it to be balanced.

[spare plaza]

fix hit boxes/ projectile pathing. You can be on the side of the mob and itll hit you aiming fronward. This isnt the movie Wanted where you can curve projectiles wtf lol

[arctic lagoon]

its def a goal, if they could also add bumping when your hand hits them if you swing too close

[warm roost]

I suggest... That in goblin caves... If you are the last person left in the game... And it's the final circle, the blue portal always spawns next to you. There is no reason for you to die because you had to scan 2 levels and open a portal with 30 mobs trailing you because the last portal spawned in a complicated area to get to on another floor

[stuck perch]

No, that just incites players to stick around after they've found a portal but would rather be greedy and search for players to kill. You ignore portals you find at your own risk.

[warm roost]

I mean that's only the case if you're the last person. There is still the incentive to get out because if there are 2 people in last circle you aren't guaranteed to get out

[scarlet creek]

A lot of that is great, I'd love javelins as the only throwing weapons a barbarian can use is axes.

[unreal crystal]

Ban all of the annoying gold sellers in gathering hall and trade chat

[stuck perch]

Yeah but are you the last person because someone else found the portal or because they died?

[somber wind]

They do at the end of the day; you can see it's different gold sellers each day (aka they're paying $35 everyday to keep selling gold). We need to not just ban gold sellers but ban gold buyers so they cant afford to buy the game again after getting banned.

[warm roost]

Either way is the same effect. You can go the whole game only even hearing the last 2 portals if you're unlucky. Either way. If you are the last person in the game and it's final circle, it shouldn't be a dice roll whether you get out or not. If that's the case just don't have a portal at all in the final circle right? The point of that last portal is so if there is someone remaining that they can get out. Being that you have the smallest amount of time to search for the last portal... You shouldn't have to search that hard... Because if you have to... You die.

[rose ledge]

It's not really a dice roll tbh. You can mitigate it by always being on the highest floor by the time the last couple circles go in. I've never missed a portal since I learned how to properly navigate.

[warm roost]

Not in all locations. Yes for some locations... But this is not true for all

[rose ledge]

Healing potions are your friend. It won't kill you if you have to run for 30s

[warm roost]

Some classes take 15 seconds alone to open the portal... And for locations with no easy fall through it will cause you to die especially if that area wasn't cleared yet

[rose ledge]

No class takes 15 seconds to open a portal to my knowledge. Highest I think is around 10s, and most are about 5. Wiz is like 3, cleric is about the same, rogue is 5~ and the rest are around that. Again, if you know where the circle will end which is pretty easy to see after the first circle closing or two you have more than ample time to plan your escape. Out of the past ~200 caves runs I did, none of them were me dying to missing the portal. I made it out about 80% of the time, the other 20% were PVP/PVE deaths.

[warm roost]

Open a portal on a barb

[rose ledge]

That's literally one class. You said some. And again, plan properly and you won't have that issue.

[granite plinth]

skill issue

[warm roost]

Truth

[rose ledge]

Barb has literally some of the best clear in the game, 2 shots most mobs.

[stuck perch]

Meh, I'd rather just have more time before the circle closes on every map.

[storm pendant]

delete ranger, game is 100x better

[granite plinth]

delete bard for 200% increase

[warm roost]

I mean that works... Or an indicator of what level the last portal will spawn on... But they're is no reason to die because you couldn't literally make it there and open it on time even with your weapon away and running and taking the shortest path

[stuck perch]

Bard is a great addition to the game, the nerfs are messing it up though. They should have come up with cunning counter balances for the strengths of the bard rather than just robbing that strength.

[warm roost]

But I don't see the harm of just implementing what I said so meh... To each their own

[granite plinth]

bard players deffo smell the paper after they wipe

[stuck perch]

I'm not the greatest fan of the circle either. Come up with alternate mechanics and have a random mechanic from the list used in ever match.

[stuck perch]

If all else fails you do have that permanent extraction point in GC.

[warm roost]

If someone didn't take it yeah.. From my understanding it also doesn't always open, unless I'm misinformed

[warm roost]

I think the circle mechanic is just bad when a map is too vertical. It doesn't do it's job which is to create pvp and it doesn't allow people willing to pvp guarantee an extract

[stuck perch]

It's weird. The time at which it opens is random also once I took it when doing GC and stayed to spectate, and after awhile one of the guys I was spectating took it again. I was confused but apparently it's possible.

[stuck perch]

It's job isn't to create pvp, it's to concentrate players, which amongst other things leads to pvp.

[warm roost]

If 3 people are concentrated on 3 different floors it didn't do its job of concentrating people. Think of a map with 100 floors... No matter how tight a 2d circle gets, it doesn't guarantee concentration

The more vertical a map gets the worse a circle mechanic will be

[stuck perch]

Although while we're talking about GC, I think it provides too much loot for the first floor of a stack. They should add a floor before the caves, make it a forest map or canyon map with caves and goblins.

I get your point about verticality. I'm not a fan of it even on the maps that aren't that vertical.

[warm roost]

What do you mean by "first floor of a stack"

[stuck perch]

Have you played the crypts map?

[warm roost]

Yes... But not sure what you mean still

[scarlet creek]

I think he means like first floor in a set of maps, Like crypts and then hell

[stuck perch]

A stack of maps is like the Crypts/inferno stack, originally intended to be Ruins/Crypts/Inferno. A stack of maps are the maps that are linked by the red portals allowing you to go deeper. A supposedly core concept of the game.

[warm roost]

Oh I get it like going down

[stuck perch]

Yeah Goblin caves, especially with the troll boss, feels like it shouldn't be the first map in a stack/set of maps.

[scarlet creek]

I'd love a map before goblin caves where you're in a forest and have to go down into the cave. Goblins are all in the forest.

Maybe make it were everyone can go down if they want and only a few escape portals exist

[warm roost]

Yeah i mean... I guess too much loot on a 1 floor map can be bad but idk I think it's fine for the rate of extraction for ungeared players... For geared players it can be a bit much loot if you get out every time

[stuck perch]

You always want less escape portals on the upper floors and more ways to go down, although I wouldn't let 100% of the players go down. I also think that to make sure all maps are started at the appropriate player density, I think going down should queue you up for another lobby with people who have gone deeper from all lobbies doing your initial map. That way you don't have half of the initial players dying and leaving the 2nd map empty except for you and maybe another.

Although I'll confess that I don't know what the ideal player density would be for GC. When I solo I go solo crypts.

[warm roost]

I feel like for the size of gc 9 is good... 10 didn't feel as good

[stuck perch]

Yeah I preferred the smaller pop size for the crypts too. It also made it interesting to guarantee at least one or more duo or solo in a full crypt lobby.

[warm roost]

Maybe 10 is possible if they spaced spawns out better but the west map spawns you can get pvp with 2 other players before you even pve

[drowsy grotto]

The fact they haven't nerfed blow of corruption to me is wild
That shit is stupid as fuck

[coral yacht]

They should add a special lantern that reveals rogues or people invisible in general (something like that at least)

[spare plaza]

deff needs to be more ports in gob caves. You can be the last person in there and still die to the storm lol

[warm roost]

I don't think it needs more portals... But i suggested last portal spawn on you if your the last person in the game... Since I know how you feel

[spare plaza]

thats a good suggestion too. I jus mean there needs to be some sort of change if you are the last person in the dungeon and its final closing. I got trapped by mobs and a player gaurding the last portal and I died to locust because of it lol.

[warm roost]

Yeah. I mean.. You have to consider there are 4-5 portals that spawn every game and 1 static exit... Too many more portals and it would just be a pve map

Either that change or more time before last closing... But you should have to fight over last portal because well... That's the point at the end... You fight for limited resource... But yeah... Just dying because you can't make it to the portal on time sucks

[leaden agate]

anyone else feel that rouge is overpowered?

[stuck perch]

Rogue is both overpowered and underpowered depending on who plays it.

[spare plaza]

this

[warm roost]

I think it's strong against the most amount of classes...

[leaden agate]

my buddy clipped a vid of a rouge dealing 90% damage in one hit while he was opening a portal. possibly a cheater but was curious as ive been having some pretty insane fights against rouges and they feel like they are just doing alot more damage than usual

[warm roost]

Wizard and rogue seem to be the two classes that can solo in the highest number of situations

[leaden agate]

yes exactly my point..they can run around and dominate most maps

[warm roost]

I think everything has its counter though so

[low charm]

is anybody else experiencing your arrows just disappearing after firing?

[warm roost]

Nah that's just a rogue pickpocketing you mate... Jk

[low charm]

they dont hit any skeletons and until i try and shoot again i cant change weapons

[normal tangle]

make a report button on death for teamers

goblin caves is literal cancer bunch of rouges teaming and jumping people

[sterile zodiac]

UI CHANGE SUGGESTION:

For any and all teammates who have spells, add their spell icons in a spot relevant to their portrait with numbers so that players can see what their team mates have as well as the number of charges so that they can all be on the same page.

The less necessity for players to to have to use their microphone with regards to information they already posses as a team, the better.

[stuck perch]

Careful that might discourage bards from using Chorus of Clarity when they see just how little it actually does.
But to be more serious you should make an official suggestion of that and share the link so we can vote it up.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/

[woeful mountain]

Please upvote this if you agree, I would love ironmace to see it.

[sterile zodiac]

I think I managed to do it. Here it is:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489898/ui-suggestion-player-spells-chargescapacity
@woeful mountain

[woeful mountain]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488020/add-a-1v1-arena

[drowsy grotto]

With rank would be awesome

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision Go vote if you agree!

[stuck perch]

Two shall enter one shall leave.

[drowsy grotto]

Only issue would be balance (since with an arena would be closed quarters)

[unreal crystal]

make a thing where people cant bring in purple gear to normal runs it ruins everyones experience trying to have a fair fight when there is one team that is majorly outwheghing the entire lobby for multiple games

[drowsy grotto]

I really just want them to say yay or nay on armor score because all of the same suggestions appear

[jagged zodiac]

skill issue brother

[unreal crystal]

suuure it is

[vivid warren]

if i could stop getting murdered by 2 cheap goblen shots as a rouge, that would be nice.... a little bit less damage or make sitting stop bleed

[knotty berry]

Fighter sprint should be replaced with Charge - rush forward 10 yards instantly, knocking aside any opponents you contact 3 yards. No damage, just positional and immediate, rather than a sprint. Would be so much fun knocking people off stuff xD

[abstract swallow]

Iirc they've already said they have no plans to implement anything of the sort

[fathom solstice]

REGION LOCK CHINA

[past snow]

I think The Woodsman trader should sell gray lanterns

[visual hazel]

rogue does too much damage with no gear

[oak horizon]

there needs to be an option to enable/disable automatically holding the utility item in the next slot after using an item. i keep pulling out a torch while hiding in a dark corner when bandaging

[mint rain]

PLEASE HOW DO I FIX SERVER ERROR PLEASE TRY AGAIN (2)

[low geyser]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489239/slightly-greater-consequences-for-hitting-shields

[icy panther]

Hey guys, I just died to a rogue, can we remove him from the game?

[somber wind]

I'm trying to figure out a good way to nerf Support classes as a whole without nerfing them directly as It's alot less bard's fault than it is the idea of having more than 1 support class. Thoughts on this?

Buff Priority would be a system to prevent future issues with buff balling. Currently the issues with Bard isn't so much bard's problem and more so a problem with support classes as a whole since if any support class was added it would provide buffs. 

Buff Priority would solve this issue; This is an alternative to limiting the amount of buffs as that is a very awkward and clunky solution that will cause different problems.

While a buff from a support class (and only buffs as this doesn't apply to debuffs and this doesn't apply to non-support class buffs such as skills, perks or potions) is applied to a character and there is another buff on that character with the same effect whichever buff provides a higher bonus will be active and the other buff will darken on your hud not applying it's effect. If a buff provides more than 1 effect and it doesn't match that other buff it will show the buff icon with a slash through it and half the icon being lit and the other half being darkened showing a portion of the buff is active.

An example of this functioning is Accelerando + Beats of Alacrity. Accelerando provides 27 Movement Speed at 3 Stacks and Beats of Alacrity provides 25 so if you have both buffs only Accelerando will provide an effect. This does NOT remove Beats of Alacrity, the moment Accelerando ends if Beats of Alacrity still has duration it will become active.

An example of a half active Buff is if you have Rousing Rhythems and Bless. Rousing Rythems provides +3 to All and Bless +3 to Strength, Agility and Will so if you have both buffs Bless will provides +3 to Strength, Agility and Will and Rousing Rythems wont but Rousing Rythems WOULD provide +3 to all of the other stats not covered by Bless (Now obviously this overlap causes Bless to be worth alot less than Rousing Rhythems but the point of this is to show that it won't cause +6; Currently there isn't much spell overlap on spells that provide multiple effects but that might change in the future).

[icy panther]

Even if this happens it won't exactly stop the comp, just make it slightly worse.
Can't exactly exaggerate how good it is to have heals in the middle of combat that bring you almost to full.

[somber wind]

The idea is to nerf support classes as a whole and all future support classes. Bard does need rebalancing but this would've been a problem with any other support class (including what you're talking about); but as I said Bard does need changes but this is something that needed to exist even if it was a different class.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489940/buff-priority-a-solution-to-issues-with-stacking-support-classes-and-buff-ball

[icy panther]

I would say the main issue is that bard can do literally everything and still be a threat, unlike cleric who can easily be kited to make melee with him less of a threat.
The other thing is that cleric is bound by 12 spell memory and 5 spell slots, while bard can bring 10 actions with no penalty.

[abstract swallow]

buffs being "take highest" instead of flat stacking would be a pretty fantastic change

[somber wind]

It would REALLY help the maximum power that support can provide.

[abstract swallow]

it's been something I've agreed with since the original playtests, where invis+haste had stacking speed boosts that completely broke the game
bard is just a natural evolution of the problem

[somber wind]

Exactly, damn Invis + Haste would've been a better example than Bless and Rousing Rhythems.

[abstract swallow]

your head's in the right place on this one though, it's definitely a step towards healthier buff design

[glacial zephyr]

Next patch

[blazing gyro]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489853/rework-bard-mindfully

I'd ask for a quick read/feedback, for those of you who can be bothered to. Enjoy your night/whatever time it may be for you.

[stuck perch]

Because you asked:
It is concerning that you wish to limit how bard interacts with other classes like wizards. I don't want parties kicking me out because they already have a wizard or kicking me out as a wizard because they found a bard. There is no reason all classes shouldn't be able to get along and combine what they bring to the party. The bard is still being retweaked back and forth and will likely be until the game fully releases. With every new class there will be a handful of odd interactions with bardic abilities unless they nerf the bard to the point of being nothing but a meme, in which case people will be making fun of spoony bards in dark and darker like many other games.

[blazing gyro]

Why would they kick you out? What about this post said don't allow buffs to stack at all? However, in current form there does/should be caps on buffs like action speed/movement speed, until the game is balanced properly.

[stuck perch]

What's the point in taking both a wizard and a bard if their buffs can't stack? Players will prefer one or the other and kick the other one out to make room for a cleric or something else that can stack all of it's buffs and other abilities with the group.

[alpine mesa]

is that normal wiz can chain ligh behind wall ?

[blazing gyro]

I never said they can't stack. I simply suggested a cap, and as you know I am in the court of bard getting a near full/full rework.

[stuck perch]

The bard is great how he is in general if they don't ruin him by making him useless.

[blazing gyro]

If you think bard is great the way they are, then you are living in your own echo chamber. Many vets do not hide from the fact that bard is obviously out of balance right now. I know you love defending anything about the current game state as is that fits your flavor or preference, but this does not mean people cannot talk about alternate options that may be better for the overall health of the game.

[stuck perch]

I'm not talking about balance, I'm talking about general mechanics.

[blazing gyro]

Is the general mechanic of playing a few seconds of out of place notes, into a few seconds of completely tone-deaf to the last song notes, in spammy fashion good mechanics? As the player has to constantly right click just to 'play their music', believe me hardly anyone is enjoying this after a few hours of playtime with a bard in group/or just facing bard comps constantly. If people describe, not me btw, if people describe your class as "annoying" and it is supposed to be an entertainer/musician, then you failed on this aspect of bard and need to redo it.

[stuck perch]

I'm completely fine that they remove red notes progressing the song, or "note skipping" as people call it. It's makes balancing the bard a nightmare and because of it we're losing things that actually matter like the power on our buffs and debuffs.

[somber wind]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489940/buff-priority-a-solution-to-issues-with-stacking-support-classes-and-buff-ball

My suggestion might help with the buff stacking issue

[knotty berry]

WTF I just got one shot... by a barbarian WIELDING A TORCH. Ignite + achiles strike one shots with a TORCH. 100 hp fighter in grays to zero health, he was ignited/invis/hasted so I had no counter play to it. This game is becoming nothing but one shots which is super boring. And before you ask, no I didn't move anywhere with the achiles strike, I legit died on the initial hit.

[blazing gyro]

I +1'd this, but I do think that caps on buffs and reducing tooltips on individual buffs is actually a better option imo. This way you won't have people saying, 'Oh, you're a X class? Well, we already have other X class that does X.' However, it's a good idea vs what we have for sure.

[vivid coral]

-Gambling statistics: Possibility to change a chosen statistic of an object for a random statistic at gold cost, each roll costs more gold. It would give more role to the merchants, more utility to the gold and the possibility to trade with more valuable items. Motive: to give an example..and I am a cleric xD...As there is a possibility that you get ''spell capacity'' in a barbarian axe, and this is useless for him...give him the possibility to try to change the statistic for gold and let luck have the last word (like in diablo, for example).

You will only be able to change a chosen statistic by a random one and it will cost more and more expensive.

Vote if u like ---> ''Change of items stats'' is the title of the post on the official page
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487234/change-of-items-stats

[raw fractal]

perhaps an equipment rating (ER) on non highroller games

i.e. more valuable gear, more ER, if you have too much ER, then you can't join normal

[blazing gyro]

People will find a way to get around it. They will mix/max the ER, the gear's potential with said ER, and make sure they walk a fine line... and any ER overage on the person they want the strongest? They would bring gear in for them, to raise them above the ER.

@raw fractal In short, griefers gonna' grief and scared to take real fights pvpers are gonna' stay scared. They are avoiding HR lobbies for a reason.

[raw fractal]

thats always going to but it doesnt mean you can't limit or mitigate it

[blazing gyro]

However, I do think it's a pretty safe suggestion to just say 'you can't bring any single legendary item into normals'. That's a fair and reasonable start imo.

[raw fractal]

thats like saying "ay driving head on into traffic is pretty bad, no way around it, lets move on"

[bleak dagger]

yeah please more of those "please remove gear from the game" suggestions

[blazing gyro]

The larger issue than gear rn is class balancing. I have been with and against groups in solid comps that have absolutely dumpstered these kinds of overgeared sqauds.

As I said earlier, removing people's ability to bring blue/purple gear would remove the thrill of killing these players and making out HUGE at the end of the lobby (this is a huge adrenaline rush and appeal within a dungeon looter BR.) That said, gear power discrepancy obviously needs tweaks, as do classes/buffs/etc.

[stuck perch]

You can mitigate it by reducing the rarity of the loot they can get in a given map while also making it really expensive to go back to their normal haunt if they go back to the starting area. Here's a suggestion that explains it better.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment544273

[blazing gyro]

It's kind of difficult to have this discussion when the devs mindlessly decided to not wipe when they reinstated HR entry fee, after them not having one. There is a plethora of +3 all att gear in the game, there is an overage of very cheap blue quality gear, purples of high quality can be bought for 200-300... this is very little effort to full blue/purp.

[raw fractal]

its essentially the same thing but what I'm saying means you can do something like run a purple weapon but then next to no armour

[grave stirrup]

can we please get spells back to full after warmup?

[stuck perch]

They're doing weird things to collect data. That data is worth to them as much as player suggestions and voting on features.

[grave stirrup]

would like to test spell damage without having to rest/meditate at game start

[bleak dagger]

There is no warmup. Why are you wasting your spells in the lobby?

[raw fractal]

you'd still do it the same way but just using numbers to calculate based off of gear rarity

[grave stirrup]

theres literally no downside to doing this lol, warmup should have infinite spells

[blazing gyro]

I highly doubt that leaving +3 all att gear in the game provides them any real hard data, when it is no longer available. It just creates a power gap, especially when it comes to leaderboards and such (this season's rankings are completely invalidated and worthless by not wiping before it). Not to say other data isn't valuable, but they were not considerate of the health of the game/player retention when they decided to proceed in the current meta without a wipe. Having meta comps with easy, easy access to near max gearing is a nightmare for the noobs I'm certain.

[stuck perch]

They need to worry about laying good foundations for the game they can build on. Sacrificing that for early player retention who will likely not be staying due to the hardcore nature of the game will only cause them headaches later on.

[plush orchid]

All leagues are invalid in terms of integrity. Streamers racing for #1 while getting full kits and consumables from their viewers

[blazing gyro]

Well sure, but at a certain gear cap this is somewhat not a thing anymore. At a certain point in HR teams, everyone is near max geared and with way too much gold. That said, the access to having +3 all att gear handed to you from viewers is an issue.

[sharp otter]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489999/free-high-roller-entrance-after-successful-game

Suggestion: No-fee HR entrance after successful game. Let me know what you think

[surreal pewter]

Genuine question about Starting Kits:
Wouldn't be good to have different starting kits to choose from? The game could let you "unlock" new starting kits at different levels (5-10-15-20) which could also open to "subclasses".

Like a ranger with longbow but no sword nor traps, or a ranger with survival bow and 3 traps.. things like that that shouldn't change much in term of raw power but add a little variety to the game.
Posted it here:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490005/multiple-starting-kits-to-add-variety-subclasses

[timber viper]

I like this

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490015/create-a-1-special-lobby-on-normals

Make a really odd possibility to get into a HR-like game (Red-Black enemies) in a normal lobby so it gets harder to play but with better items (better loot)

Would this be to much? Good/Bad things about it?

[granite plinth]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489361/non-high-roller-queues

[glossy rain]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490021/classify-player-buffs-and-kill-overlapping-buff-power-for-balance

Suggestion: Classify buffs and remove/reduce the overlapping effect. Increase balance and diversity in comps

[ripe turtle]

you know what we guys need? an ingame "therapist" who hears our concerns and misfortunes all the time and at the end of the session, we get a gold pouch. (50g) 🙂

[blazing gyro]

Reposting for visibility and feedback. There is quite a bit of added elaboration/context in the comments.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489853/rework-bard-mindfully

[tulip hill]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, though from what I can gather the underline idea isn't bad
Things like speed buffs are definitely problematic when stacked together
It wouldn't be that hard to implement either
they would simply need to calculate the character's speed when accounting for each speed buff they have individually and set their speed to which ever buff gives the biggest result

[glacial moon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488333/dark-and-darker-as-i-imagine

[glossy rain]

One should consider which buffs they want applied on them, not take every single buff available. If you get a cleric shield, you lose the bard Mr/armor buff….or the shield is 50% effective and the bard buff gains drop 50%

[ripe turtle]

I understand the spamming of songs feels kinda nonsense. But at the same time if IM is gonna just nerf and restricting the instrument playing, then the whole class gonna feel underwhelmed, especially solo. In certain groups like Wizard, Ranger and Bard, the Bards are just giving all the buff the other two classes need to overpower basically everybody. I would say let IM figure out something that is good balance for everybody whenever you play a Bard. Pay in mind that this is STILL Early Access and we barely have seen what DaD has to offer. This game is going one of the...if not the BEST video game of all time.

[surreal pewter]

thank you!

[ripe turtle]

Yes! Why not! Let players choose from different loadouts that are junk quality items (default gear quality) that suits their playstyles. For instance, Fighters could get two swords without a shield or a longsword with a crossbow.

[tulip hill]

that seems unintuitive and needlessly complicated
I think the idea could work for any buffs that actually do the same things but I see no reason why what is effectively a blue pot (Cleric's Protection spell) should override an armor buff
because if thats the case, would they also be incompatible with Fighter's Taunt since it gives a flat 10% PDR? What about Barbarian's War Cry, an ability that effectively reduces incoming damage by 25% after all other calculations? Wizard's Arcane Shield effect is extremely similar to cleric's Protection spell too
would using these abilities get rid of the other buffs?

that's not even going into perks that also grant similar buffs, would they be excluded since they are largly passive with little control over when they are in effect?

[blazing gyro]

The thing is, I'm not saying they must nerf and restrict the ability to play the instrument. I am suggesting a rework in the music played, how the music functions with groups, potentially caps on certain group buffs like action speed/movement speed, and so on. I do not think bard would be underwhelming at all after changes to how the musician aspect/buffing plays, it would just not be grossly overpowered in metacomps and also just... poorly executed in terms of taste when it comes to a musician.

[glossy rain]

Specifically references player on player buffs, not self casts. The idea is quite simple. Do you want every game to revolve around 2 supports and 1 hyper carry.
Is that play style fun to play against, and
Can you balance a support class in isolation when two supporting classes essentially stack cumulatively.
Can you balance accelerando alone when there are times people have wizard haste and invis also.
Can you balance a fighter when they huge defensives from a bard and cleric.
In the second example, how can you balance that same fighter who is playing cleric bard, against one who is playing with Ranger wizard. You can’t really.
Bards got hammered with back to back nerfs, but how much of a bards oppressive kit is really the one bard, and not what the bard + wiz/cleric does to the carry

Every class should be a snowball right? You loot and you level up. A support forgoes some individual power for wider team power.
That slower snowball effect on one support, giving it to a carry/frontline etc. that is somewhat ‘balance-able’.
Issue I see in DaD currently, is that the two supports make the ramping effect of trade offs way too good. You are not losing enough compared to how much you are giving when combined.

If you look at another game. Wow used to allow every buff/consumable under the sun. Some classes/combos are able to break past what is achievable to other classes when you have an unchecked power creep. Buffs can’t just overwhelming stack without it being oppressive, in my opinion.

[blazing gyro]

Well thought out questions and post.

[tulip hill]

I'm confused as to what you are suggesting then
How do we determine what buffs are allowed together and what buffs aren't? or would that just be decided arbitrarily by the dev team?

[glossy rain]

Offensive, defensive and utility.
Bards armor and MR - defensive.
Clerics shield and heals - defensive
Ignite - offensive
Cleric stat buff (bless?) - offensive
Invis and haste - utility
Accelerando - utility
Bards spell recovery - utility

If I have accelerando on and I cast invis, lose accelerando. Pick and choose your buffs, don’t just apply them all blindly without any thought.

[granite plinth]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489361/non-high-roller-queues

[tulip hill]

alright, I think I understand now, thank you for laying it out like that; this is much clearer
I'mma think on this and get back to you in a little bit :)

[bleak sundial]

they REALLY need to come up with a way to separate the sweats/streamers/no-lifers and otherwise jerks from the casual people that play games to have fun. idk how but player numbers will continue to drop otherwise. I've been dedicated to this game since day 1 but honeslty im ready to give up. Ironmace, this isn't FUN anymore. (Highroller is a good concept but it's broken, not working as intended..)

[tulip hill]

okay, I'm still seeing a possible problem here going back to it being unintuitive
so with the examples you gave here, there are a few things that need to be considered
First off, you have Cleric's heal on here and I'd hardly call it a buff as its an instant effect more akin to a bandage or surgical kit, though it is still a very powerful effect so I can see why you put it on here
Secondly, Cleric's Bless gives bonuses to Strength, Agility, and Will. While these stats do allow you to hit harder and faster, they also provide extra health, speed, and magic resistance. Its more of a general all around buff than a specifically offensive one (though another spell you might have mixed it with, Divine Strike, is strictly offensive as that provides Base Physical Damage)
Third, Haste provides both movement speed and action speed. Action speed determines a character's attack speed, so one could argue that Haste is in fact an offensive spell
Lastly, though not on this list, Rousing Rhythms' all stat up could be considered to be any of these categories

I just think trying to fit some of these effects into neat boxes is not practical, especially considering we are almost guaranteed to get more buffs down the line which may end up blurring the lines even more

that would be neat actually! makes them more useful than just to yeet at people
one thing I want them to add to oil lanterns is the ability to have them be active while on the ground
let you set up some directional light rather than just leaving a torch near where you want the light

[granite moon]

I personally dont understand the appeal of gear based matching at all, I feel like it ruins the whole point of having gear

[sage nova]

I'll take getting stomped by epics than having skill-based matchmaking. sbmm is garbage

[tulip hill]

the way I view gear is for specialisation
problem currently is most classes only care about a couple stats but even still you can get stuff like melee wizard vs nuke wizard or poison rogue vs 1 shot rogue
that's one of the reasons I love the concept behind Fighter's Slayer perk

[granite moon]

Theres a difference between sbmm and gearbased mm

[granite moon]

I still feel like gear is "worse" when you cant use it to "be better"

[tulip hill]

🤷 kinda just comes down to taste at that point
I've never been a "big numbers make me " kind of gamer so that idea never really appealed to me
I'd much rather do something interesting than what is optimal
unless I'm playing something like factorio, than I care a lot of efficiency but that's kinda a different realm of motivation

[granite moon]

Its not reaaly about big numbers, its more about surviving then dungeon

[tulip hill]

well hypothetically if everyone was wearing roughly equal gear than surviving the dungeon would be fair, but I see what you are saying

[solid solar]

Please allow us to turn of the automatic rotating of utility items, its honestly a dumb feature no one asked for

[glossy rain]

It’s really not any more or less intuitive to the current damage calculation which is far from intuitive.
Put the classification on the spell itself, make it super duper clear what type your buff falls under and have three fixed position buffs at the bottom so you know what ones of each of you have.
You’re getting into the very nutty gritty details of which spell is what category issue, which I mean is fair but it’s not the point.
Look at it this way. If we had 4v4 lobbies, Wizard cleric and bard would be almost essential. Add in 5 man lobbies and if Druid comes in with buffs akin to cleric/bard levels of power, it will be 4 supports and 1 carry.
You cannot possibly balance utility classes that can stack buffs without any drawback. The inherent nature of sharing buffs, means that the downside of individual power becomes redundant when enough buffs are shared.
It’s a balancing problem.
I would love to see the relative success rates of trios that run 1 bard with no cleric wiz, compared to those comps that do. Or the effective rate or bards/clerics on ruins now, where you don’t get to enjoy double support carry. I don’t see much cleric bards cleaning lobbies and it’s more damage threats. That tells me that bard and cleric are actually weak in that sense, and are being arbitrarily balanced around the issue of double or triple supports.

[swift anvil]

Release skill tree and make it so you don’t get access to every perk and skill only the ones you grind for and make it capped

[timber viper]

Go to Options > Last option > Turn off

[swift anvil]

Would make interesting builds. And make people have to grind to figure out the the meta

[tulip hill]

I'm not against you when you say stacking buffs is too powerful, that's why I'm more concerned with the actual how we should solve the issue
the system you are suggesting is just not a very elegant solution
even just labelling each buff would end up being arbitrary for some of them and I have yet to even touch on the fact that one buff removing another buff even when they don't do the same thing adds an extra layer of grief potential, accidental or otherwise
imagine dying because the bard took away your speed by playing Chorale of Clarity

[timber viper]

imagine dying because the bard took away your speed by playing Chorale of Clarity
And it was for the wizard not for u

[tulip hill]

ofc ofc, forgot that detail

[timber viper]

Would make 3j really hard as bard as your team would need to separate a lot if u want to have different buffs

[glossy rain]

Same issue with imagine that bard swipes your head off with a falchion. That’s more grief than doing a different buff but you have no issue with that? I don’t see your concerns if I am honest. Why would a buff need to be 1:1 exact same effect. Shield and Armor/MR is too good. Haste and drums, again too good.
Take omen of clarity off the list I said, it was just a quick list

[timber viper]

The problem would be that the whole team needs to stop for the bard to put usefull buffs then

1. Put a buff for the fighter
2. Put a buff for the wizard
3. Put your own buff

Meanwhile, u cant be close to each other, and some of the buffs lasts 8 seconds

There are rooms where u cant play

[tulip hill]

correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think DR applies to shields
also as I suggested earlier for buffs that apply the same stat bonuses I think the game should just use the larger of the two at any given point so the speed from drum songs and the speed for haste would not stack

[solid solar]

pretty sure that is not the same thing im talking about

[glossy rain]

Might be worth reading the initial post. Clear issue on bard buffs is the overlap of defensive with cleric and the overlap with speed/invis with wizard.
Those are way too oppressive combinations.
Very fair point that you could have an issue with bards playing some other songs in and out of range. The suggestion was initially just that some of these buffs should not stack or only be 50% effective when two are applied

[timber viper]

I already did, and I know it's a problem right now, I just dont like the solution, there are already softcaps for some attributes, they could create softcaps for buffs so if you mix bard + wizard speed they are not useless but they are weaker than now

[glossy rain]

Yeah yeah weaker for sure. Overlapping either remove does that but also said diminish returns the buffs so you can still run together and get some benefit still

[timber viper]

Oh yeah mb, ik about you are talking now, yeah it could be an option

[late vigil]

Add a gear score please!!! Make a max gs for normal dungeon and Get rid of high roller cost and set a minimum required gs to enter, boom game fixed, high risk high reward... too hard for anyone starting to compete against geared teams slaughtering everyone in normal dungeon.

[earnest meadow]

i swear i dont encounter geared teams as often as people who complain about it. are you guys just running head first into every group of footsteps?

[fallow horizon]

Please add report button in trading post. So many spammers

[forest pine]

Whatever your doing just stop it’s gonna be wrong anyway thank you❤️

[copper raft]

What if Buffs were half as effective if used on a player other then themselves. So if a bard uses his song to increase his movespeed he would get the full effect but his team would only get Half of its effect. For example bard would get 25 and teammates would get 12.5 and for wizard they would get the full length of their invis and if used on an ally(or enemy) its duration is cut in half(similar situation with Haste)
I think it would shake up the current situation in the meta.

[forest pine]

What if they just refunded the game and released it when it was ready

[timber viper]

it would kill the entire "support" idea I think

Thought about adding a perk so they get the whole buff but... That wouldnt solve anything at all cause wizards + barbs would take it

[jaunty vector]

how tf is barb and ranger still untouched

[ripe bluff]

remove bard

[jaunty vector]

this is honestly a solid idea

[forest pine]

Bc they can’t think properly

[gilded ember]

What about doing an auction house with biger fees so you can put your items and dont need to stay hours on the trade xD

[tulip hill]

from what I've seen there's about an average of 1 group of really geared people in a given lobby
but since that's an average more often than not its a couple groups of geared people every other lobby
some might say that's worse because you get 1 good game in, have yourself a few bits of gear, then end up with a lobby where if you don't get out in the first couple portals you end up stuck in a very small space with like 6 people who each can team wipe you

[earnest meadow]

okay so don’t wait till the end of the game where geared players who specifically want to pvp are hiding? like am i crazy for suggesting players don’t risk their whole inventory for a few more pieces of loot?

[hushed sentinel]

Gear fear if it was a person

If you dont let greed take over u aint playing right

[earnest meadow]

brother i die so much i couldn’t have gear fear if i wanted it, im specifically suggesting this to people who complain they sue to heated teams when they specifically go to situations with geared teams

[surreal pewter]

What do you guys think about this?
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490005/multiple-starting-kits-to-add-variety-subclasses

[tulip hill]

if we assume there are 6 geared people who don't mind staying, 3 in your group (including yourself) there are 9 other people thinking the same thing and only a handful of early portals

[hushed sentinel]

They are just ass let them cry

[earnest meadow]

okay so play the pvp aspect of the game and fight for the early portal lmao??

[hushed sentinel]

Also i suggest tht devs addres the server fucking error (2) would be nice

[earnest meadow]

tbh i kinda like that some situations feel unwinnable in this game bc when i do win its so much better than knowing the outcome from the start

[tulip hill]

ah yes, because I know exactly where they happened to spawned and am able to get there before someone uses it
look man, I'm not saying anything about the people you are attempting to call out, I'm just pointing out you have an unreasonable expectation with what the correct play is

[copper raft]

It wouldn't kill the idea it would truly just be "Support" your still getting healed and shielded but now your not running as fast or invisible as long

[hushed sentinel]

Juest get good jeez mr casual

[stoic hull]

This is so stupid u bought it in beta test so they can get it ready and balance stuff out

[earnest meadow]

yea thats fair, it can be frustrating sometimes to fight geared people who belong in highroller gl on your games

[tulip hill]

hold up
you have an amazing name and pfp, I can't even complain about you hitting me with a get good

[hushed sentinel]

I mean bruh most people complain about shit you get over as you actually get good. Weee i die so much to whatever bullshit like just learn to not die

[ripe bluff]

why not remove bard to vastly improve the quality of the game?

[hushed sentinel]

Real tho i hate that class

[earnest meadow]

yea i feel like bard is too good ion a group and dogshit in a solo somethings wrong with that class

[tulip hill]

bard is salvageable, just a question of how long its going to take for them to be in a healthy spot

[hushed sentinel]

Hes decent solo if u get the buffs in time his dmg is nuts

[blazing gyro]

I think bard should exist in the game. It makes sense that bard/monk/druid/etc all come into the fold as the game develops.. this current iteration of bard is bluntly put and with no disrespect meant towards the CEO/anyone in particular, an absolute disgrace and deterioration of the game vs what it was prior before bard.

[ripe bluff]

my fav part of the game is facing a bard/barb/wiz trio and getting ran down by a barb thats haste/invis along with all 1 billion of the stackable bard buffs

[hushed sentinel]

And getting one shotted by a throwing axe with achilles

[ripe bluff]

lmao yes cant forget that

[hushed sentinel]

But then again just learn to avoid them lol unless you cant gg then

[blazing gyro]

The next barb you face has 60 throwing axes in his inventory pov

[tulip hill]

does Achilles still get boosted by axe specialisation or did they patch that out?

[jaunty vector]

doesnt matter achilles is broken regardless

[tulip hill]

what about it would you say is too much?

[short fiber]

There needs to be another stash slot purchasable with the blue stone currency, yes it enables gold sellers more, but they're going to do it regardless. If in future they are to then focus a little on punishing gold sellers, maybe work on detecting it, there would be literally no issue with another stash page. Maybe even make it purchasable with money or blue stones, that way revenue could be made for server upkeep as well. Wipe the game every 3-4 weeks, everyones happy.

[blazing gyro]

Posting for visibility/feedback/discussion. Any criticism/input is welcome.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489853/rework-bard-mindfully

Apparently I am unable to post this link multiple times over the course of hours in general chat and this channel is hardly ever enabled by most users, so honestly Idk how I am supposed to get the proper visibility/discussion started about this topic. The 'remove bard' thread doesn't really facilitate great discussion atm and I'd rather see a more level starting point when discussing how bard can be adjusted/reworked/etc.

[jaunty vector]

is this a troll? the fact barb does over 50% hp with every hit and achillies roots you(unless you wanna die) its a sit still and die please skill. no decent counterplay thats not luck

[blazing gyro]

In the melee competitive community they have a phrase for overtuned moves/the game in general. "Don't get hit." This is the only real counterplay atm to achilles, unless your build is good enough to stand up and outmelee the barb or if you are a parry master (this is the outplay for a lot of things that people never mention at all, because it takes high skill/game knowledge to do).

[subtle bridge]

I kill barbs easy on my Cleric, I also can kite them on mage, and bard, and archer.

[jaunty vector]

same with ranger, sit at range and die please, both need nerfs atm. rouges brutal but balanced i understand peoples complaints but its their set. and dont get hit is great until a barb blue double axe achillies you and you are literally dead

regardless of class both of them smoke most classes in a solo

[jaunty vector]

good for you bro

[autumn breach]

My suggestion is finish warlock 🙂

[jaunty vector]

i second this lol

[glossy rain]

this man for president

[blazing gyro]

Druid will be done by the time warlock is finished xD

[jaunty vector]

i also second this lol

[blazing gyro]

Adding new classes and all this is great/more than welcome, but tbh this game is wildly whack vs former game state. At least until bard gets some major looks/passes over.

[jaunty vector]

yeah the balance is worse than ever and thats after 4 balance patches

[blazing gyro]

Tbf, it was going to be very difficult to add bard into the game when there is already support abilities from wiz/cleric existing. Bard was released wildly overtuned and mechanically... yikes.. It feels/sounds/plays.. just bad. Though it's great for carry metacomp gameplay if you like easy mode W's. Definitely been on both sides of the latter.

[jaunty vector]

a guy said earlier make bards effects apply at 50% to teammates, actually could fix it. maybe some tuning but that would be the general rule. barb, bard, ranger all need looked into, rangers triple shot can kill anyone, bard is a

[winged mortar]

Are there any game mechanics that could be added to discourage juicers from sitting at the end and camping portals out?

[jaunty vector]

op buff bot and barb is just dumb with achillies. balance patch needs to come soon

[blazing gyro]

Something like this is at least a starting point of discussion that is somewhat realistic, but tbh I think bard as a whole has to be reworked. Approaching balance from the class mechanics/overall conceptual execution as is... would be... like bard is not well designed enough currently to warrant that.

[glossy rain]

love that guy

[subtle summit]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/479719/barbarian-perksskills-need-rework#comment547956
Your daily reminder that just one updoot a day can feed a local barbarian

[tulip hill]

no need to take a hostile tone, different people call attention to different aspects of a given topic
as for addressing your concerns, as it is now, those without a way to block a barbarian's attacks are pretty much dead if they land a hit regardless of if they are using Achilles because of the on hit slow, and those with a way to block should especially seek to block a swing enhanced by Achilles
where the ability gets its most value is when its paired with a throwing axe, the flat damage bonus, slow, and pseudo-DoT make getting hit by such an attack a death sentence for most
while it is totally possible to dodge such an attack, I do feel that the ability is far too applicable in most situations to have such an effective impact on barbarian's weakest area
Realistically, any one of the 3 effects of the ability could be removed wholly and it would still be a very effective tool
so, now that I've made my stance more apparent, would you like to discuss what would be the best way to change the ability rather than just stating it broken?

[subtle summit]

Achilles actually isn't the problem. It's the axe perks that apply to achilles that make it so busted.

[jaunty vector]

i agree, bard needs another avenue, utility or something but the buffs are better than cleric and in theory cleric is what they are basing buff classes off. bard needs some sorta rework, bows need dmg reduced but armor pen increased and barbs achillies needs removed or totally changed. my opinions but yeah

[subtle summit]

Try barb without axe perks and achilles, it does 20 base damage with a grey and then 5 per step (for 2 secs thats at most 15-20 damage)
Axe perks like axe specialization and executioner do apply to francheesies

[tulip hill]

oh so it does still apply? I asked that earlier and didn't get a clear answer

[jaunty vector]

nah, nearly 50% dmg 1 hit the rest with achilles without perks or gear lol you obviously aint experienced it or are wrong tbh

[subtle summit]

My suggestion is asking that barb isn't a linear meta playstyle.
Zenix all I play is barb, I don't use axe perks and rarely do I get a so called one tap achilles strike that everyone speaks of.

[glossy rain]

buffing armor pen to deal with fighters starts to have the added effect of making hunters obliterate Warlocks/rogues/barbs etc.
Armor pen should be novel, a build choice inside gear like +weapon damage. Given for free to deal with fighters is only feeding any other frontline without omega phy reduction to the blender

[blazing gyro]

I honestly would just be happy not hearing 3 quick bars of spammy sub-par music be considered what a master musician buffing their allies is capable of. Nobody wants to hear a bunch of tone-deaf musical equivalents to a high school band kid playing a bunch of different instruments. Longer pieces and multiple buffs associated with them, that are both balanced and musically inclined enough to befit a bard's capability as an elusive swordsman/master of music. Currently, I could find a guy off the side of the street that would make bard absolute meme material. Bard as is, as a whole.. balance and just what it has added to the atmosphere of the game.. is a massive deterioration.

[tulip hill]

based on your roles in the server, would it be safe to assume you play mostly Ranger and Rogue?
those classes are rather squishy, rogues especially are punished by the ability since they have very low Will, making debuffs last much longer

[subtle summit]

If you jump against achilles as well it procs all the damage achilles is allowed as well - up to 25 damage for the steps basically. I don't agree with this either. I don't think it should apply to every weapon either, just throwing axes. That'd bring about a bit of balance. Make the other perks and skills more usable and you'd see achilles strike less.
Hence my suggestion
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/479719/barbarian-perksskills-need-rework#comment547956

Not to mention, achilles strike has been nerfed twice since PT3. If it gets nerfed further, that pushes people to run reckless attack which is basically a situational use with huge downsides.
You'd kill the barbs that are already hardly playing the class as is lol

[tulip hill]

if they made it explicitly for throwing axes, I would suggest toning the ability down and making it a perk instead

[blazing gyro]

Barb is quite heavily played in the higher end of meta rn. Barb/bard/wiz and Fighter/bard/wiz, as well as rogue or ranger variations... are definitely top meta rn.

[jaunty vector]

i second this suggestion, actually some thought behind it and to zest i play warloc, bard, cleric. thats old roles. doesnt change achillies can literally kill most classess in grey/white in 1 hit. but nah i dont play those classes anymore.

[icy gate]

add gemstones to weapons for more atritbiutes

[subtle summit]

Making it a perk is an option

[jaunty vector]

but even if i did achillies is still one of the most broke perks next to triple shot

[subtle summit]

Buff ball comp is a meta but when you consider theres better skills and perks for fighter to use, especially with good gear, fighter wins out as long as they play well imo. It just depends. I don't agree with the current metas either, makes high end pvp in 3s really boring.
Like oh boy here we go buff ball vs buff ball who will win? lmao

[blazing gyro]

Ye, the 3's state is the worst it has been, but that is mostly due to the introduction of a conceptually inadequate bard that was just.. done poorly as I've said enough times on here. If the team with the fighter knows how to position, then I agree that the fighter comp should win.

[rocky fox]

As someone who struggles to see color like everyone else, making blue items and purple items with more contrast would be helpful. They look the same to me.

[jaunty vector]

the games balance is totally shot tbh, hoping for a big balance patch

[blazing gyro]

My personal favorite comp to play is rogue/wiz/fighter. It's not meta, but it is pure outplay potential comp. I would much rather see more of that, than people mindlessly metahopping to bard carry comps.

[subtle summit]

I wonder if they're holding off making more changes to skills and perks since they're trying to implement training
If that's the case numbers will get bigger... would be interesting to see how it changes.

[jaunty vector]

i hope so

[blazing gyro]

Ye, the game will shake up a lot when they introduce those skill trees and such. So who knows.

[tulip hill]

Two Ambush Shadowrunner rogues and a bard spamming song of shadows :)

[jaunty vector]

rangers been unchanged for too long, 4 balance patches and one of the highest dps's in the game has been left to run riots in the lobbies lol

[blazing gyro]

That's just toxic xD

[subtle summit]

IMO from a dev perspective they might be doing that because they can't see how busted training will be while changing/balancing skills and perks... I mean they could but it would be difficult to read from a data perspective.

it's hilarious there's streamers out there running grey wizard kits and getting top 3 on the leaderboard for gobbo lol

[blazing gyro]

I feel like I should just change my discord name to 'IHonestlyHateBardsInCurrentFormAndItsAMajorYikesFromMe', so that I never have to say things in regards to how I feel about how bard is impacting "potential data" or whatever discussion is at hand.

Posting for visibility/feedback/discussion. Any criticism/input is welcome.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489853/rework-bard-mindfully
xD

[subtle summit]

i mean i get what you're saying but lets play a game - If they did a big balancing patch to reduce some of the meta builds, add some variety in other places, etc. and added training? They'd have to sit on that patch for like a week to see how the changes shaked things up. It's like when they added +3 all temporarily and increased loot drops- they wanted to see what data that would bring so they can adjust accordingly and everyone hated fighting against that lol.

[worthy carbon]

Please allow me to swap out the bard music files so i can have through the fire and flames and wonderwall playing in the dungeon, you can paypal me whenever you implement this

[blazing gyro]

^I'm so down for this

[blazing gyro]

Perfect performance on through the fire and flames=+10 all stats for 2 minutes.

isn't lock broken in noob bracket but a meme at highest level?

[jaunty vector]

we need balance thats not 1 class at a time once a month, and nah loke warloc is nuts with mgc dmg and magic heal as a frontline

[blazing gyro]

I hardly ever see good players on warlock, so I honestly can't say.

[atomic yacht]

bruh that woykd be hilarious hearing someone play rock or metal in the dungeons

[jaunty vector]

you should check it out, not easy but its absolutely screwed

[blazing gyro]

literally anything would be better than whatever "music" is in the game currently for the "master musician" that is bard.

[atomic yacht]

we need more content and updates in general.

game is getting stale without updates

[jaunty vector]

we need balance not content

[atomic yacht]

why not both?

[jaunty vector]

but i agree itd be fun, yeah i was about to say. i dont mind both but im interested in balance the game is a shitshow

[subtle summit]

Warlock needs fixing lol some of the skills and perks dont even work

[atomic yacht]

its not like a patch has to be only balance or only content

but at this point i just want something

[blazing gyro]

both are needed. Group sizes need to be raised, map sizes need to increase, new weapons/armor added, but group sizes increasing in current balance state with bard/wiz would be an absolute nightmare of balance (especially while introducing new classes and skill trees).

[atomic yacht]

just delete haste from the game ngl or make it not castable on allies

[blazing gyro]

I would usually say that's reasonable, but this game is based pretty hard on DnD potential. And a wiz would not be limited to self-casting, because they are a wizard and the most powerful class in the DnD universe.

[atomic yacht]

im a wizard main and despise how we're forced to take haste and invis always

i still dont take haste heehee

[jaunty vector]

wiz aint supposed to be a buffer its supposed to be dps not both

[atomic yacht]

balance > lore

[blazing gyro]

? I said they would not be limited to only self-casting. A wizard literally is able to learn an entire spellbook and use it to max potential in DnD. And while I agree balance>lore in a game like this, you can consider other avenues. There are movement speed/action speed caps that can be explored, tooltip values and duration reductions, and so forth. You don't have to entirely remove the support mechanic from wiz and hardstuck certain classes as support. The ability to build the way you want is one of the coolest things about the potential of this game.

It's not my lore perspective. The devs are running with it.

[atomic yacht]

invis is the only well designed buff spell on wiz ngl

[blazing gyro]

I am speaking of why those things exist in the game in the first place. The devs essentially copy/pasted what a wizard is capable of when it comes to those spells, in a sense.

[atomic yacht]

well designed

dagorb wizard is terrible and ignite haste makes buffball way too strong

[stray wasp]

Femboy twink player models for cleric/bard players

[blazing gyro]

This is what you think wiz should be. The devs, and what they are basing their development/reference of classes on... thinks wiz is much more than just a damage dealer, because a wizard literally has the ability to wield magic. It's more of a matter of, if they are going that direction, what is reasonable balance if it is in the game?

[atomic yacht]

what are you even saying

do you speak english

bard buffed by wiz?

i said invis is balanced

haste and ignite are too strong.

whatever I need to go to class

[blazing gyro]

It's not your idea of the class

No, it's what the devs are basing their development of the classes on. They are using source material and inserting their own flavor along the way. If you can't accept that, then take it up with the devs.. but I guarantee you they aren't straying from their game vision, because you think a master of magic should only be able to deal damage with said magic.

"I was just saying wiz shouldn't buff at all literally. not the idea of the class imo"
ending discussion here and going RL for now

No, I meant I am going to focus on my rl for a few hours and pretend I'm not a degen addicted to this game for a few hours.

And, go ahead and provide me the facts from the source material the devs are using that says wizard is only able to deal damage with magic. Where's your facts at dude. That's not a question btw. I'm out. peace

Why are you still pinging me?

If you were actually down to discuss, then you wouldn't have so much edge and salt in every reply that is not in agreement with yours. I legit have never actually played a game of DnD, but the woman I love is a DM. I know some about it, but not nearly as much as people familiar with it. I am just saying, I'm not the one standing up for the devs or whatever... I am just telling you that is where they are coming from. Just because you think a wizard shouldn't buff allies as a master of magic and bard should magically be able to do so or cleric or paladin or w/e.. doesn't mean you're right. Stop insulting people for no reason, because you have a lack of mental stability.

[glacial sphinx]

wiz buffs are fine, just shouldnt be unlimited cause of bards songs and probably buffs of the same type shouldnt stack

[glossy rain]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490021/classify-player-buffs-and-kill-overlapping-buff-power-for-balance

[granite plinth]

Hey guys I just had an idea to balance the bard !
Just as the ranger must reload his bow, the bard should then take care of his instruments after X spells with this instrument : with the lutte and the lyre, it would change the strings, for the drum : change the skin. He would like this have some down time like the ranger, and it would feels pretty realistic. In addition, he won't be able to spam one instrument spells
What do you guys think ??

[blazing gyro]

that what you say in the mirror or is that what women tell you? lmao

[glossy rain]

Have you played bard? They have enough micro to worry about than adding this ontop imo. Class is the most active all dungeon

[granite plinth]

I did a lot, with a little training, you can use spells even without watchin at the music bar, it's super easy. I strongly disagree with the "most active" part

[blazing gyro]

Says the guy who said I was blocked 3 messages ago, because I'm a loser apparently. but here you are defending yourself like a true edgelord. Continue saying w/e you want about me. You are low IQ and reaching.

[glossy rain]

Zenix and Loke, can you two just go PM eachother. Nobody cares

[granite plinth]

That's true

[obtuse hedge]

force people into highroller after level 15. seeing full purple clean up squads isnt fun for anybody

[atomic yacht]

would hr be free, then?

[obtuse hedge]

of course. i think free highroller is a great idea

[atomic yacht]

would a level 20 and level 1 in a party be forced to go hr?

[obtuse hedge]

yes, to add to the idea. you can avoid highroller if your highest gear you have on is a green

[atomic yacht]

devs already said no gear queues

[obtuse hedge]

it would solve the common complaint though

[atomic yacht]

avoid well geared players

[obtuse hedge]

how do you avoid someone sniping accross the map 1 shotting

[atomic yacht]

dont go into dark rooms because a ranger is in there

be careful in cleared rooms

[obtuse hedge]

so what about when they are running at mach 3 and you got no idea. wheres the fun especially for new players.

[atomic yacht]

also i can oneshot with a green bow on squoshies

[blazing gyro]

There is something called "pvp strafing" or however you want to call it. If you're looting something or covering a lot of open ground without los, then use your WASD while doing so.. never give yourself up as a still target if you're able to is the general idea. los=line of sight.

[atomic yacht]

a fighter can run at mach 3 ungeared

in fact its easier to run at mach 3 ungeared

[obtuse hedge]

you know what your right, lemme tell the two people who want to play different classes to run naked fighter to solve our issue

[atomic yacht]

i play basekit wiz just fine in gobs

[obtuse hedge]

congrats

[atomic yacht]

ive killed blue/purple gear that get cocky and overestimate themselves

[obtuse hedge]

look, idgaf if you wanna flex. i just wanna address the issue of full tems in purples running down new players. its not fun. the people im with dont like it. and they hated the idea of naked fighters.

[atomic yacht]

are you encountering full gears every single game?

[blazing gyro]

I understand you are mad and can't keep my name out of your mouth, but it's w/e to me. Plenty of people like you in this world. However, I doubt you'll be here long after slinging racist words around carelessly in a public discord. Not really the play, dude. Good luck further in your life. You will need it.

[obtuse hedge]

8 out of 10 games

[atomic yacht]

jeez lol

trios?

[obtuse hedge]

duos and trios sadly
goblin cave is prob best bet but we are a group of THREE

[atomic yacht]

hmm yea i dont play trios because thats all buffball sweats

i only do duos/solos so i cant speak on the trios experience

[blazing gyro]

k?

Go read up and look at what you say after you actual blank.. It’s short for “**”, which was originally a racist term for people from East Asia, and then became an even more offensive term for people with Down’s Syndrome, due to their distinctive facial features. Yeah, I'm sure you're very well read and educated on what words you throw around.

Stop continuing this discussion lmfao. Like what is wrong with you? How are you this mad because I said the devs are using wiz as a basis of their class development XD. This is a suggestion-discussion discord channel. Relax and maybe learn to breathe before you think XD

Enjoy your ban dude

[low meadow]

theres always something good going on in the suggestion channel lol

[blazing gyro]

k

[rich cypress]

What even was the racist word he said?

[vivid finch]

Hello guys! I wanted to ask you (the users) what do you think about dark and darker having a twitch drop system and giving out free "cosmetics" to people who only watches streamers that are partnered by DaD ?

[obtuse hedge]

might be too early for that idea

[blazing gyro]

Cosmetics should just be added into the game and not a forced avenue to give twitch streamers views. They already removed the former female elf cosmetic, while adding in the new one. Idk why they didn't just leave an either/or option, but ye.. I do not think tying twitch drops to cosmetics is a remotely good idea.

[vivid finch]

Yes too early but I didn't say it should be added now, although I can never see this have in anyway a negative outcome!

[blazing gyro]

Maybe down the line it would be something you can get, but I always think having uniques tied to forced twitch viewership is just bad. If anything, have it something you an either buy with the blue portal currency/red or something that can be obtained through viewership. That's a more reasonable middleground imo.

[vivid finch]

You're overthinking it too much! I shouldn't have typed in "Cosmetics" I was thinking something more smaller since the game its brand new and barely has anything in the shop.. I was thinking for starters maybe some redstones to buy some emotes as a gesture of appreciation for those who work really hard live streaming and enjoying the game!

[blazing gyro]

The idea itself isn't terrible, but the way it is done by most other games has a 'you can only get this by watching twitch streamers' avenue.. which is just mind-numbing. But sure, redstones or something like that would be cool and give regular/non-regular viewers a reason to keep stream open or w/e.

[young sluice]

We don’t have enough space in stash almost 50% is gold 20% is pots and the rest is armor there should be ways to store more space maybe a chest in stash cant be found in game that hold all your coin pouches and maybe something that can hold potions in stash too or even armor or weapons it would make the game alot enjoyable for people that play the game religiously

[honest ridge]

just learn the spawns of other players and play around that. play around the exterior of the map - learn how to take red portal most lobbies people do not go down! its a free escape for your team if you learn how to deal with the AI downstairs

[vivid finch]

Not all games! I don't know if you ever played sea of thieves but there are some cosmetics that were time limited in the shop in-game and brought it back in twitch drops like a 2 years later

[stuck perch]

How quiet are you guys when you play? What do you do when you hear other people nearby?

[honest ridge]

he prolly W keys w/ his team from his spawn to center circle and wonders why he runs into teams

[blazing gyro]

I have not ever played sea of thieves, but I did watch some friends stream it back in the day. Good to know that everyone hasn't done it in entirely poor practice, but at this point I'm curious.. when they enabled the twitch drops 2 years later, did they allow them to be purchased for a limited time as well or was it only twitch?

[vital violet]

can someone help me for server error. . No one from admins is helping. They still haven't responded to my ticket. I haven't been able to play the game for about 2 weeks. Waiting your helps guys.

[stuck perch]

Yeah there are a lot of players like that, or they smash every pot on the way, running and jumping around in plate boots using loud spells like bard songs and fireball.

[rich cypress]

I think the community would be ok with it as long as the cosmetics weren't godly like entire skins and stuff like the ones you have the buy in the store

[glacial sphinx]

did you try verify the files with scan and repair?

[blazing gyro]

As long as it is not forcing people into FOMO viewership, then it's in good taste and mutually beneficial imo. The issue is that it usually is pseudo-forced FOMO viewership.

People should have the either/or option is my point, but to @vivid finch 's example that option would be present.

[vital violet]

I couldn't login to blacksmith launcher so how can i scan and repair ?

[glacial sphinx]

Ah, maybe reinstall it?

[vivid finch]

Okay so there were some cosmetics that were time limted (this was when twitch drop wasn't a thing yet) in a game event like for example halloween! and like a year or two when they added twitch drops they gave people another chance to get the cosmetics cause they removed it from the in-game shop cause it was time limited

[blazing gyro]

I suppose it's okay-ish, but I do think that could've been approached with a 'hey you missed out, so you can either get it in-game by doing X or you can view a partnered streamer'. I feel like that is healthier and more considerate of the playerbase, but ye... it's nice they did that at least.

[vivid finch]

YES exactly that's what I'm trying to say

[blazing gyro]

Then sure, that'd be something mutually beneficial for everyone involved.

[vital violet]

i already tryed dns - vpn - reinstall bla bla

[rich cypress]

Add twitch cosmetics when there isn't much cosmetics even in the game yet would be a weird move if they did it

[vivid finch]

but in the future of course when they add more content into the game and yk just things you can redeem by a twitch drop so that way you help the streamer + help the game populate + viewers gets gifts so at the end everyone wins!

[vivid finch]

yeah that's what I'm saying they should do this like later on when they add more stuff into the game cause rn its kinda pointless, unless they add something new but only for twitch drops but that would be like the opposite of what I tried to say

[blazing gyro]

Before I actually finally dip for RL nonsense, I will repost this one more time and wish you all luck getting dumpstered in the dungeons/or doing the dumpstering.

Posting for visibility/feedback/discussion. Any criticism/input is welcome.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489853/rework-bard-mindfully

[wooden seal]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487511/after-match-damage-report

[cedar kettle]

Interested to see people's takes on this, I feel like it would be a nice addition but a nightmare to implement
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490124/gear-level-queue-restrictions-for-normal-dungeons

[frosty agate]

Hear me out.
Nerf Barbarian's Achilles Strike. Warlock's Corrupt Blow.

[naive walrus]

Is magic power basically useless compared to additional magic dmg???

[pliant rapids]

I was actually wondering if we will see a “low rollers” queue. I would bet it’s not easy to implement though. A few days into the wipe you just have that chad group full clearing in almost every dungeon. Gotta rat around and avoid them to get out. It’s part of the game play loop now. I guess it’s invest in becoming said chads or continuously die.

[naive walrus]

Blow of Corruption is perfectly fine. Warlock needs that big dmg to compete as a midrange character. If you notice a warlock enable BOC then you just disengage for the 12 seconds it is active then attack....

Achilles should work just like BOC and have a duration. I agree it needs a tweak and I think it having a duration would be good so that you can counter play it. I would also make it not affect throwable sinces throwing axes are just stupid rn

[lusty iron]

They should add a function to get up from the table in main lobby. Having the room be a physical area you could use for testing kits and weapons. Potentially having a customizable "room/house"

[wooden seal]

Try to ban me from messaging now bot https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487511/after-match-damage-report

[atomic whale]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490162/fix-missing-sounts-of-steps-and-doors

I was sitting under doors and had no sound of iteractoin

[low meadow]

make healing and bandages reset every 15 minutes

[wooden seal]

lol

[neat lava]

Move duos to crypts. Ruins is still a half baked map by comparison

[wild hollow]

Yes please i am so sick of ruins and we wanna mine and do hell :(

[fiery ore]

for real, mages should only be able to use haste and invis on themselves

[hoary notch]

bad take

[neat lava]

Tell me why.

[fallen patrol]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490172/separate-health-from-strength

[hoary notch]

The change that Ruins needed was to make it a duos map. Crypts is a larger map by comparison and the entire game has been designed around that map and 3 man parties. It would quite literally throw off a huge balance they got going.

[icy panther]

Just died to rogue when I had 5% hp left and approached a dark corner, can we nerf this class?

[fallen patrol]

How do we feel about most classes gaining a way to self heal in and out of combat? Was thinking like barbarians gaining 1% health back for kills on mob (minus spiders), increasing the healing rate of resting by resourcefulness, giving rogues and rangers some sustain? I hate how games basically require a cleric or a crap ton of pots

[icy panther]

IM specifically said they want you punished for failing to PvE correctly, I don't think it'll happen.

[unique locust]

yeah ruins is ass, I'm not a fan of their maps in general tbh they all feel flat and lifeless

[abstract swallow]

All of the maps are pretty bad, and the fact that we STILL don't have the superior blue crypts back is a travesty

It was such a huge improvement, it just needed like 5 minutes of polish

[neat lava]

I agree that Ruins is in a better place as a duo map than it was as a trios map. However, all of the tiles are too open, too dark, and there are not enough health shrines spread throughout the map to incentivize purposeful map tile exploration.

[fallen patrol]

I feel like the problem in the end is post-pvp fights where you basically have to sit down for 5 whole minutes or just have a cleric.

[late dome]

Thats what campfires are for

[abstract swallow]

This is why God gave you medical supplies

[icy panther]

Even with a cleric you still have to sit there for 5+ minutes to recharge spells, just bring meds or fire because prep is a big part of the game.

[hoary notch]

ain't no way you just said "too dark" in a game called Dark and Darker.

[unique locust]

i just want some actual terrain not just a flat map with a ramp here and there

[polar storm]

A skill for warlock, when hell fire is in motion, cast the spell to reduce damage and will no longer phase through walls, but will speed up the projectile mid flight.

[stuck perch]

What was superior about the blue crypts? That post processing effect was horrible.

[granite plinth]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489361/non-high-roller-queues

[abstract swallow]

the spider web like design placing 2-3 teams into connected branches leading into a dense core
it was a solid application of the Colliseum map's design

[stuck perch]

Ah, I never got to experience it that much the wait and the post processing effect turned me off at the time.

[late dome]

Add luck as a possible attribute for gear

[stuck perch]

Remove luck as a stat and mechanic

[late dome]

Nah thats lame as hell

[rare sparrow]

i am here to argue and not provide any helpful feedback

[hoary notch]

hey guys, Rogues, am I right?

[rare sparrow]

yes

[late dome]

Not NEARLY as BAD and UNBALANCED as barb!! ! I just got one shotted in all greys!!! Nerf them already!! !

[icy panther]

Everyone, I have an announcement to make in regards to things I want removed from the game:
||Anything that kills me||

[vivid coral]

-Gambling statistics: Possibility to change a chosen statistic of an object for a random statistic at gold cost, each roll costs more gold. It would give more role to the merchants, more utility to the gold and the possibility to trade with more valuable items. Motive: to give an example..and I am a cleric xD...As there is a possibility that you get ''spell capacity'' in a barbarian axe, and this is useless for him...give him the possibility to try to change the statistic for gold and let luck have the last word (like in diablo, for example).

You will only be able to change a chosen statistic by a random one and it will cost more and more expensive.

Vote if u like ---> ''Change of items stats'' is the title of the post on the official page
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487234/change-of-items-stats

[abstract swallow]

is this "Anything that kills me (normal)" or "Anything that kills me (in an intentionally unbalanced 1v1 duels for-fun gamemode)"

[ruby hound]

Fix Barbarians being buffed out of their minds by the two supports in the game currently and get the Chinese out of everyones servers and put them in their own or your games dead.

Literally hitting for 150 damage per swing with 200hp are you fucking kidding me with this shit

[sick mantle]

Nerf unkillable warlocks rocking anywhere above +10 Magical Healing gear and give the base lifesteal a tiny increase to balance out the curve.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490203/warlock-lifesteal-scaling-balance-changes
Same thing you did to Wizards but healing-wise for Warlocks.

[icy panther]

Anything that kills me (I should never lose)

[abstract swallow]

thank you for clarifying, I'll let you get back to making your hourly reddit thread about another class

[wind wasp]

new character currency gained from extracting, used to buy gear
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489054/new-character-currency-from-extracting-used-to-buy-gear

[dense sand]

Green is to low, leave the dungeon the same but highest you can enter normals with is blues

[abstract swallow]

blues is a good balance but you can 100% clear a lobby with a full blue squad almost completely uncontested
in fact aside from purple weapons, I'd say it's the color that is complainted about most often when people ask for gearcap

[stuck perch]

says suggestion not found.

[wind wasp]

😕 when I click the link it works
@abstract swallow regular crypts seems designed for whites/greens to provide a modest challenge while blue weapon/armor puts you in god mode

[abstract swallow]

yeah, crypts is awkward because it's clearly meant to have elite monsters in it due to how dense and loot-heavy it is
the "floor 2" version we had during PT5 was a huge improvement, whereas the goblin caves and ruins having just white monsters worked much better

[soft acorn]

The hitbox for curse of pain is so terribly bugged. Its 1000x easier to cast a zap as wizard then curse of pain while curse of pain cost you health. Unless people are cheating that hard. Just got ~10th information that player that i've reported was permamently banned. Only since start of early access

[rare sparrow]

geared wizards cast spells too quickly imo

[soft acorn]

Ironmace statement about warlock: Here take the class that we've worked on, we don't care about your feedback. But pay us 35$ and enjoy the game

[fierce bear]

the class literally says in development relax

[soft acorn]

it doesn't mean that it doesn't need some balances, changes just numbers not additional skills or perks. They added 2 perks which you can take but they have NO usage in the game.

[torpid perch]

Make gear restriction for free lobbies. Do not allow full blue/purple teams killing whole noob lobbies. They are destroying experience for casuals/new players. Plus they are all liars not respecting the crouch.

[rare sparrow]

unfortunately u just gotta accept that some classes are inherently not as developed as others. sad truth is that most class additions are probably gonna either be too weak or too strong at first

[soft acorn]

In my opinion it would be too easy to farm gold on low geared lobby so gear score idea shouldn't be implemented - its my opinion.

you can take Wizard with only spellbook for 11gp and wipe full blue-purple geared fighter

[fierce bear]

also how many days has this even been in early access, cut them some slack they're listening to feedback, slowly, but surely. Early access is what it is and if you expect more effort before ne*on is finished harassing them, then contact the devs otherwise be patient and keep giving feedback constructively.

[median agate]

100%

[fierce bear]

agreed

[torpid perch]

Sure, if you are skilled wizard. Previous statistics says otherwise. Wiz outplays other classes at high skills level. On noob level it doesnt do as good as other classes. Check the play tests stats.

[fast lily]

I formally suggested a thing, but I'm pretty sure it's just a rehash on commonly accepted stuff: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490224/reworking-bard

[soft acorn]

from the other hand its unfair when you have 1-2 perks and you encounter full geared man with capes, purple items +3 all stats. 4 perks etc.

I was playing as Wizard today as 6 lvl with 2 perks and encountered Bard, who wiped whole lobby as his buffs on goblin's cave are massive. 326 movement speed with rapier and full gear. one shotting everyone

[torpid perch]

Yea but there is no way in restricting player skill level. Elo or other ranking thing would do more harm than good.

[rare sparrow]

i have suggested before something like gear score. be warned. you will get lots of flak because people don't consider more than one possibility for implementing a gear score. if gear score is implemented, it should only prevent highly geared players / 3 stacks from being placed into a lobby with someone whos in their first raid or potentially just has a base kit

[versed belfry]

People are just going to be bringing in green gear with +1all atts on everything if you make blue/purple gear restriction lobbies, the best idea I've heard so far is making a map where you're only allowed grey/whites since wizards/other classes can still have a spellbook but no one has much of an advantage over others

[torpid perch]

That also good idea. You know guys im not a dev to know how to implement things. I only see a problem that is frustrating me and possible bring harm to community. If you are interested in discusion on official forum heres a link https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490230/gear-restriction-on-free-lobbies

[rare sparrow]

other side is that, at least if you make this possible, worst you can fight is a team with green gear and one buff (+1 all) . instead of purple gear and jewelry with 4 buffs each. you are honestly risking way too much bringing a set of green +1 all atts into that kind of lobby if it did exist. gear differential between all green and all white is way smaller than all green and all purple

i'd like to add i'm not advocating for strict gear score or especially SBMM lobbies, but there does need to be some sort of separation between people in end-game gear and first-time players.

[fast lily]

If Gearscore is implemented it's just going to cause people to gear with the exact limit of gear required to participate in the lobby. They're still going to wipe the floor with the lobby. They need to make it so the power level a default kit/lowly geared player is still threatening to a fully kitted player. The fully kitted player should have the definite edge, but the default kit player should have the opportunity to outplay.

The problem is being fully kitting in the lower lobby is not risky enough, and going into higher lobbies with fully kitted 3 stacks running you down is just giving away loot. Gear is a bit too strong, and the current Bard/Cleric comps exacerbate the issue.

Like, why be a fully kitted Wizard and go into a highroller to get 1 tapped by a ranger headshot?

[rare sparrow]

my point though is who cares because there's always going to be juicers who destroy non-juicers. i'm not sure this is avoidable. at least as the game stands, id much rather have someone be able to queue into the normal dungeons with maximum of full purple set rather than having the potential for a 3 stack to queue with legendary gear and a unique weapon into that same dungeon. that should not be possible. fully kitted (at least all purple) players should rarely if ever die to an unkitted player (base kit). they shouldn't really even have the opportunity to imo

[small furnace]

I think gear should have better base stats based on it's rarity other than PDR.

Simply because as it stands, a gear being high rarity doesn't necessarily make it worth anything.

A fine cuirass if it's purple will go for a high amount even if it has bad stats because fighters care about PDR, but for instance a purple forest hood that has like spell slots, spell casting speed, and magical power will go for absolutely nothing because rangers don't care about PDR. The change I'm suggesting is that maybe a purple forest hood has 2 or 3 agi instead of just the 1 agi of a basic forest hood, makes it better even with absolutely terrible rolls.

[rare sparrow]

i agree to an extent for sure. its weird how it is possible to find a blue item with 0 buffs that is only like 5 AR better than a white or gray item. which really means it is about the same because 5 AR might as well be 0

[small furnace]

Yeah, for some items it wouldn't change anything like the basic padded tunic since the old stats it has are armor and magic res, but stats that provide base stats like STR AGI or even the +1 all for the shadow mask could definitely be slightly scale-able, even if it's just 2 max.

[rare sparrow]

yeah it would be interesting to see how that gets balanced. as a rogue, i only ever use the shadow mask because the base +1 all is just too good. if that ever became +2 all that would be ridiculous. but at least it would mean that if you get a purp/leg shadow mask, then it is good by default (which it probably should be considering the rarity alone)

[rigid prawn]

I think keeping base values static and making higher tier gear based purely on its rolls will help bridge the gear gap that currently exists. Maybe increase AR with stuff like rubysilver since it can be explained away as a stronger metal than steel but wearing a blue cloth shirt shouldn't give you any increase in AR over a grey, its a cloth shirt.

[ripe bluff]

remove bard

[small furnace]

I don't think so, there's too many garbage rolls in this game that are possible the pool is super diluted because of the fact you can roll non-class rolls on items that are specific to a class. Spell slots, spell casting and magical power are huge offenders for this.

[rigid prawn]

Thats just a design decision. Trash gear makes the BISs gear hit that much harder when rolled.

[rare sparrow]

i like this perspective too. but surely higher rarity armors should have some sort of benefit even if it is minimal. there are certainly some swords that are sharper, faster, better etc. than others even though it may not be by much. i will always agree with bridging the gear disparity gap but gear disparity should still exist and be a separating factor in fights to an extent

[small furnace]

I understand, but what I'm saying is at the very LEAST if you get a purple with garbage rolls it should feel better than a white/grey, that currently isn't the case with a lot of the gear types that exist. Sure for plate armor fighters are set, but an increased AR ratio just doesn't mean anything to most other classes.

[pastel basalt]

i agree remove bard.

[charred merlin]

Achilles strike
Something needs to be done about this skill, You can outplay as much as you want but one mistake and getting hit by this skill with Francheska or horseman axes kills you instantly. I suggest that powerful skills like that should have a time limit to hit a target like a warlock strike

[rare sparrow]

also i do enjoy the fact that u can get leg gear with bad buffs and then all the sudden its basically trash

[rigid prawn]

There has to be a reason though, like higher grade armor(mithril, adamantine) that cant be found in commons similar to how we don't have grey capes (which i think should be changed lol)

[zenith falcon]

what about adding an ilvl to normal dungeon because purple bastards full geared will kill the game?

[pastel basalt]

my 100% item equip speed set goes crazy/

[small furnace]

Yeah, like if I roll a purple forest hood that has spell slots, spell casting speed, magical power and knowledge I think that at LEAST it should feel slightly better than a grey forest hood. Currently they're identical. Like maybe +2 agi instead of +1 agi.

[rare sparrow]

i just think there's an argument that some cloaks, swords, etc are just made better than others. you can say that comes in the form of the buffs but i think a leg sword should do a bit more dmg than a non-leg one despite the difference in buffs. not that much, but given a leg sword with awful buffs, and gray sword, leg should have an edge

[abstract swallow]

it should affect item swap speed, so my funny railgun Ranger build can be even more esoteric

[rigid prawn]

Once again a design decision. The devs have made weapons progressively more lethal while reducing armor scaling with hard caps PDR and such. I think they want bard/rogues/wizards etc to be squishy even if your in pure legendary. The skill of thoise classes come from keeping yourself out of harms way, they dont want AR tank wizards face tanking fireballs and stuff like that. Just imo of course

[rigid prawn]

I agree with plate scaling, like rusty armour has weak spots etc. but a cloth shirt with a hole in it protects you no more than a cloth shirt without a hole in it

[rare sparrow]

as a rogue if wizards ever become tanky ill be at IM HQ the minute of the change

[abstract swallow]

I don't know why cloth items don't have static AR and scaling MR

[small furnace]

You're missing the point. I am fine with them being squishy, I just said if they don't get any bonus from PDR then their armor pieces should give other things at higher tiers.

Like +2 agi for a purple warden's outfit for instance. They would still be squishy, just some extra base stats for getting a higher rarity item.

[rare sparrow]

agree, you could also say the cloth armor just generally fits better and/or is made of higher quality or tighter knit fabric. while that really doesn't do much, it may qualify for +3 AR or a miniscule speed boost. or maybe it has higher magic resistance but not much more AR due to the nature of it being cloth and awful against any melee weapon

[rigid prawn]

scaling mr makes more sense since you can look at the gear as "enchanted", would help curb geared wiz from its dominator status as well. We honestly just need more mechanics like scrolls and more spells like counter spell etc to flush out the systems

[rare sparrow]

wizards will always be in a weird place i think. they suck at low levels / low skill floor but can do way too many things too fast when geared. can't even notice the wiz is preparing a fireball before they cast it since they can load it so fast with high knowledge

[abstract swallow]

yeah, more spells that interact with buffs/magic would be nice
and scrolls are a must, they need to come soon
too many classes are reliant on magic to not give them access to it

[rigid prawn]

I would prefer if that was dependent on rolls, like you can find a nice fitting "unenchanted" white forest hood with +2 agil instead of +1, Look at greens and above as enchanted gear with the additional rolls being those enchantments

[small furnace]

Man your logic is just so weird. It's like you're advocating on some kind of weird fantasy realism sense.

[rigid prawn]

were playing the same game right?

[abstract swallow]

verisimilitude is a worthwhile goal

[rare sparrow]

in that case then yeah i think we'd need more than just gray and white qualities then.

[small furnace]

Yeah which is why I'm super confused. This game aint realistic at all, it's a bit hardcore but not even remotely realistic.

[rigid prawn]

I mean its high fantasy, its realitic to high fantasy reality yeah

[small furnace]

I just think it's weird to advocate for things from a 'lets keep it realistic' sense. When the game already makes so many compromises for the sake of balance. This game isn't really advertised as a realistic fantasy simulator, it's a battle royale/extract fantasy combat hybrid.

[fast lily]

It's unironically closer to the antics of a tabletop game then any realistic simulator.

Rogues can double jump for corns sake.

[rigid prawn]

Its advertised as a unforgiving hardcore dungeon crawler, i dont think thinking a cloth shirt shouldn't take hits like plate is trying to make the game too realistic myself, i think thats just good balancing lol. Can you point out your issue specifically with what im saying?

[fast lily]

Also rn it's currently dungeon sprint-er than a dungeon crawler for decently geared folks.

[small furnace]

I mean you passed over what I said several times which is that higher rarities of the same item for items that give base stats, should give more base stats.

Example: Base forest hood gives +1 agi
Blue could give +2 agi instead.

That way even if the rolls are garbage you always feel good about getting that item. Currently a fighter always gets to feel get every time he finds a blue fine cuirass even if it's rolls are garbage the PDR is higher so they're happy. The PDR is a little bit higher for a forest hood sure but a ranger doesn't care about that, so a blue forest hood with bad rolls is the same as a grey forest hood.

[rigid prawn]

Nope! I responded to that notion in this conversation, just to dswizzle instead, made my point of view fairly clear! Maybe you missed it? #suggestion-discussion message

[small furnace]

Yeah, but as I said I kind of take issue with that being a non-answer because I don't think it's productive to respond in terms of 'what is realistic in this fantasy world' as opposed to what would be good balance.

[stuck perch]

Here's a completely out there idea that would probably not work, add a Dungeon master slot. give him rewards based on how well the players he kills are geared.

[rigid prawn]

im trying to make rationalisations for the mechanic existing by grounding it in the world. Its the same reason why they call the guy who shoots fireballs a wizard. I dont understand the issue with using that as a justification for mechanics existing in a sspecific form, if anything it reinforces the existance of the mechaninc. Weird take

[fast lily]

Just let them take control of the skeles? That'd be hilarious. It doesn't need to be a DM, just make it a necromancer who can 'charm' undead and manually control them.

Evil classes that modify the dungeon. Almost Dead by Daylight-esque gameplay at that point.

[small furnace]

Right, and I'm trying to suggest a balance change as currently Fighter has a much higher viable gear pool than other classes. I just don't see it as productive to nitpick on balance changes in terms of 'does this ground itself in a fantasy world' because this game does not strike me as something where people are going to split hairs over what stat appears on an item because their immersion might be broken by the fact that stats appearing on high rarity items doesn't seem grounded to them.

[signal cargo]

what are the ports for dad servers? a lot of people including myself are experiencing stutters and rubberbanding and i thing portforwarding would fix it

[rigid prawn]

What perspective are you approaching this from though? Should a man in full plate not take more hits than a bard in cloth "Armour"?

Something to realise is that the game is balanced around 3 man teams. The addition of a solo mode was a community request, it should never be used as a point of balance since there's a "matchup" system in this game, like fighter having -MR scaling in plate makes wizard strong against them, wizards having slowdowns built into the casting systems and a low health pool make them prime time for rangers/rogues, clerics healing and buffing spells make them natural support characters etc.

Fighters having the niche as a "PDR tank" helps him fill his role as a frontline for his team.

[novel crag]

New Skills:
Howl of Terror - > The warlock screams, ripping the buffs off enemies players within a 7m radius. For each buff removed, the enemy takes 3 magic damage (or roots for 1/2/3s for 1/2/3+ buffs removed)

Direct counter to buff ball meta. Instead of nerfing, make teams regret bringing that bullshit

[granite plinth]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489361/non-high-roller-queues

[plush haven]

make the skeleton race count as undead and take damage from undead spells and attacks

[rigid prawn]

AOE feels a little strong for a total dispel, I would be ok with it being a debuff that only effects buffed players with more buffs equalling more damage though

[novel crag]

all bard buffs are AOE?

[rigid prawn]

He also has to play multiple songs for a whole minute to achieve that, you cant have 1 button press undo all of that lol

[small furnace]

Why do you keep coming back to that? Did you miss the countless times I said it's good for fighter to have that? I just want other classes to have their own benefits to higher tier gear that is baked-in as well.

Scale up base stats such as +Agi or +Str on other items as per rarity, similar to how fighter gets more PDR for higher rarity. Like I said if that manages to break someone's immersion then I'm sorry I guess? I just think it would be more balanced for other classes to be able to feel a baseline good feeling about finding higher tier rarities for thier gear too.

To reiterate because you keep circling back to this:

• I am not suggesting fighter should not have higher PDR for higher rarities.
• I am not suggesting that other classes should have higher PDR for higher rarities.

[novel crag]

Not every team will have a warlock, the ability its literally only useful for bard giga buff stackers (cancerous) or maybe like wizz haste+invis

[slate magnet]

yea but these buffs last for almost 2 minutes.. and also why does their AOE go thru walls

[novel crag]

as a warlock too, you are taking that spell over another strong pick like blow of corruption

[stuck perch]

Well the idea would be someone who's not there for loot. He'd gain some other resource that's independent from the normal adventurer loot and treasure rewards. And it wouldn't just be controling the skeles, but setting and upgrading traps, changing around and upgrading the monsters.

[raven sundial]

There should be a queue to automatically find a team. Also, there should be a server where you can only take heals & default gear without being pub stomped with people that have OP gear on.

[fast lily]

Sure but Bard also needs a nerf. This feels like a suggestion that is warped around Bard being op.

[rigid prawn]

(I deleted my comment by accident sorry @small furnace )

I understand your point, i misunderstood your reasoning for attacking me grounding the mechanics in a way that people can relate (it obviously didn't work lol).

In a nutshell, I think adding rolls to base modifiers should be separate in a "quality" tier system while color tier should be looked at as "enchanted" gear (roled stats) since white and below have 0 chance to roll additionals. I agree with finding higher tier base gear kind of how you can kind a +1 stat on a green pendant and on another identical one its +2

[small furnace]

Which do you want me to respond to, I read all of it but you deleted and edited so idk what you want

[novel crag]

Yea but its hard to nerf bard (like buff limit or nerfing the songs more) without it becoming an unplayed class. I think its best to keep it strong but introduce hard counters that bring other classes into the meta. i detailed more Warlock changes here: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490249/new-warlock-spellsskillsperks-to-counter-the-current-meta#comment548492 that could shake up the meta. Values obviously are spitballed but take a look and lmk what u think

[fast lily]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490224/reworking-bard

I think reworking the class around these would fix most of the problems with it. It's so strong right now it's effectively making 2 people run around with all strines + some change.

[novel crag]

lmc

Yea point 1 is a for sure good idea. you could still stack 5 buffs with 2, which imo is way too many and bard just doesnt really have a place meleeing when other classes do it way better

I think giving some more offensive songs could help too

[small furnace]

Removing spell memory 2 unironically seems like a great way to fix bard. Having to choose only 5 of their amazing songs would really make them feel more balanced and less like a 'master of all trades'

[fast lily]

I think 2b is better than 2a but it is a full rework while 2a basically forces Bards to drop Din/Shriek and be a buffbot or take damage songs and I think that decision would prevent 5 buff Bard from being a thing.

Point 1, imo, is a must.

[somber wind]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489940/buff-priority-a-solution-to-issues-with-stacking-support-classes-and-buff-ball

I feel like this solve the issue more without harming the class.

[novel crag]

still too many buffs tho

[somber wind]

The buffs wouldn't stack in a negative way though

[fast lily]

Remove song memory 2 -> keep everything at the same power level and force bards to balance their kit so they're not completely defenseless (drop buffs for damage).
Make songs single target and have songs work more like Wizard/Cleric spellcasts -> One person becomes super strong like Haste Invis from a Wizard but that makes the party still far weaker that now where 3 people aren't getting all the buffs.

[rich veldt]

"Now, after using a utility item, you will automatically grab the utility item in the next slot." REVERT THIS. its so bad

[rigid prawn]

I fixed my comment, and my first comment in this convo was addressing what you initially wrote, tried to link it in my comment and deleted the whole thing in the process lol

#suggestion-discussion message
(i did it!)

[icy panther]

Buff diversity is the problem, not so much the superstacking of one hyperfocused area of stats.
The change offers almost nothing when you realize the 3 most common buffs you get with cleric are not invalidated by any of bards buff, save for the bless/stat song overlap.
Harmonic shield is DR and MR while protect is a straight up damage absorb, divine strike is used over bards songs because bard doesnt directly buff your damage outside of warsong, which I don't see many people use.
The main problem with bard is that songs that should take 6 seconds to play are taking 4 and still at full power, meanwhile shriek can be played in under 2 seconds at full power and completely flip a fight.

[small furnace]

I don't understand why you want them to be rolls though. Why can't they have a stat that is dependant on rarity similar to how fighters have PDR that scales with higher tiers?

The realism argument is flimsy because we can just say that a higher tier forest hood is made with higher quality fabric and thus it allows you to move more eloquently (+2 agi instead of +1) there's not even anything unrealistic about it from that perspective.

[rigid prawn]

Cause adding more rolls expands the looting system and makes gear more of a choice, do i take the +1 agil base hood that has 3 god rolls on it or the +3 agil hood that has 2 god rolls and a trash roll? More gear diversity is a good thing and we will inevitably get that as more classes / gear get added to the game.

[icy panther]

Don't rings already roll their inherent stats? Some green rings are +1 while others are +2

[rigid prawn]

@small furnace Its not about realism, i dont know why you think thats a hill im dying on, although to high fantasy standards this game has realistic standards like gear weighing you down more and headshot delaing more damage. Its common sense lol

[small furnace]

They do, yeah, the suggestion I'm making is that there should be higher base stats on equipment based on their rarity.

Fighters get more armor for a higher tier fine cuirass, so a ranger should get more agi for a higher tier forest hood, rogue +str with a rogue hood.

[icy panther]

I'd be open to that as long as it follows ring logic where it just expands the range but guarantees the stat, sure.

[small furnace]

I mean yeah that's fine too, ring logic at least on average the higher tiers are better. I just think that higher tier gear should on-average be better, but that isn't necessarily the case with a lot of existing gear right now.

[steel pulsar]

We have a solo And a trio map. What’s next a duo map plz!!!

[icy panther]

Only downside i can see is that it'll definitely further gear disparity

[small furnace]

A little bit, yeah, but we could cap it off at 3 and say that greens have a chance for +2. Since greens aren't all that uncommon for casual players to get I think that would make it a pretty small disparity.

[soft acorn]

dear IRONMACE please read description of achilles and google what "ankle" is. Barbarians are aiming for head oneshotting everyone with possibly ESP HACK. Either change description or fix hitbox for leg for that skill. Thanks

[rigid prawn]

Definitely more skill based! Would be similar to the rangers crippling shot.

[ruby basin]

This is not relevant! The class sucks and can't do any damage! If you make me hit someone's ankles I can't kill them!!!!

[low geyser]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489239/slightly-greater-consequences-for-hitting-shields

[stray wasp]

Remove braindead bard from the game

[modern mulch]

BRO me and my trio died the past 3 rounds to one team in lr just running golds, diff team every time
what is this shit?>

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision Go vote if you agree!

[grave coral]

They don't want to die on hr that's what

[modern mulch]

its so shit

they had gold and purple gear what are we supposed to do

[worn condor]

you should not be able to queue into a normal fucking dungeon with all purples/legendaries on lmfao. like who is gonna kill you

[small furnace]

Going to HR with full gear kinda sucks.

Mobs hit harder, no feed, less escape portals. Overall your chances of survival are slim, and people don't wanna risk the gear they spent hours and hours getting.

If you go into normal there's usually one extra geared team, you have a good chance of beating them, and even if you don't there's plenty of escapes. +You can go to inferno for better loot and fight the boss for amazing loot.

For most people HR just doesn't justify the risk, you spend all that time getting that gear just to have a pretty high chance to immediately lose it? Unless you're one of the big streamer stacks or high tier pro players, just doesn't seem worth to normal players.

That's my outlook anyway, and why when my team manages to get a set we go into norms, usually aiming for inferno or boss fight if possible.

[grave coral]

That's why they do it.

[worn condor]

imo you shouldn't be able to bring any purples into normals period

[modern mulch]

ok but pvp is shit when they dont even have to play smart, hold w two tap everyone. thats what theyre doing every lobby hunting everyone down

[small furnace]

I can't speak to other teams but when we see naked people we usually ignore. We just shoot straight for the boss and if we see someone with a cape we run them down. If a naked attacks us ofc we'll steamroll them but yeah killing ungeared players isn't as fun, it's usually much more fun to help them extract while we go to inferno.

[grave coral]

People would just run god tier green then. +3 stats on green items are cheap.

[small furnace]

Speaking from a strictly pragmatic point of view, we get more mountains of loot with less risk by going normal crypts than HR. If we went HR we'd have a much higher chance of dying and we'd have to pay for the privilege to lose our gear.

[modern mulch]

all 3 of the op teams actively chased us down

i get its fun for them but we only have time to playt after work, we get blues AT best sometimes

[grave coral]

farm wraith/skeleton warrior. ignore pvp until you get decently kitted.

[small furnace]

Yeah I have been on the receiving end of this many times, I'm guilty of doing it a few times as well but we usually don't do that cause it's just not as fun.

I work a full time career myself, you can get lots of loot if you're good at the game even if you don't have much time.

[modern mulch]

how tho if we r getting hunted? like we fight a wraith then get ran down by full purples

[small furnace]

Just run away? You can run away with decent success, and yeah sometimes you have to leave behind the good loot if someone catches you in the act. A good amount of the time you are not going to get caught though.

If you find yourself unable to get away I think you just need to learn to run away better then, taking off your pants/shirt while running and putting away your weapon is something that you can do that a person with a full inv of gear may find more difficult to do.

[modern mulch]

they are wizard hasted half the time plus bard even w fists out on ranger i cant run

[small furnace]

You have the runners advantage though. You aggro all the mobs behind you and close doors and they have to deal with the mobs/closed doors.

I'm saying this with experience, I am usually the ungeared player as opposed to the person roaming around with gear. I only rarely get the chance to play with good gear.

[inland mulch]

ehhhhh everyone is paying to win now! cant go in without gear anymore PLEASE WIPE!!!!

[crystal valley]

Would rather see player exp/levels dictate only trading channel/other channel access and the same for map options like HR and other future content.
All 4 character perk slots should be available at level 1

[soft acorn]

One day I would love to see how devs are playing the game on live stream

[strange fiber]

Rangers arrows should not slow like melee attacks, also why is the default recurve destroying me? nerfs when

[manic prairie]

Make class tier sets to give incentive to wearing class specific gear (bardic attire, wizard hat, occultist, etc)

[soft acorn]

btw you can forget that devs listen to any of our suggestion. I Sent a video where I stucked on map. Did screenshots + video which I sent to support. After 3 weeks the video is unpublic and has 0 views 🙂

[vivid warren]

A Hardcore game with a Softcore class
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488695/a-hardcore-game-with-a-softcore-class we discussing about how easy barbarian to play

[blazing gyro]

We do know they listen, as much of the feedback has been player-driven... for better and worse.. For instance, the very ill-advised addition of duo queues which would have very likely never been introduced were there an upvote/downvote system in place on the suggestions board.

And before I crash from RL exhaustion.. I will repost this once more and sleep at 6pm like an addict going through withdrawals.

Posting for visibility/feedback/discussion. Any criticism/input is welcome.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489853/rework-bard-mindfully

[empty valve]

Duo queues are great, its the map lmao. The map was poorly designed

[low meadow]

do they have certain days when they update or is it just whenever?

[blazing gyro]

If we really feel the need to break up the game into 1v1s 2v2s 3v3s and so on, tbh.. if people are of the mind to complain enough to force max solo/duo in a lobby... then they could just queue into a max 3 party lobby (hopefully 4+ soon) and accept they need to get good. Instead of fracturing an already lesser population of players from launch into more individual game modes. As a result of duo queues, ruins became much more gear heavy. This would have happened regardless. And respectfully, Goblin caves is by far a worse map than ruins. I love soloing ruins, especially when I could fight 1v3 and not be forced to fight max 1-2 players from a team, because some people think fighting more than 2 players as 2 players is "unfair".

In short, if people wanted to play as 2 people.. there was already a duo option for crypts and ruins. You just queue as 2 and play with the fact that you might face teams of 3's, other duos, solos.. You know, dynamic gameplay that adds an extra element of thrill.

The last thing we should be doing this early on in launch is fracturing the playerbase into segmented single/duo/trios, when HR modes exist already fracturing pop.

[empty valve]

No one is wanting forced max duos/solos. People didnt want to continue running into fully kitted meta 3 men, they wanted a more casual experience. Of course the core issue is balancing kitted players against non kitted, but they went with the duo approach.
Overall adding duos only helped, as it created a more casual mode for players who didnt want to get a third, or force themselves into an unfun situation.

[blazing gyro]

And if there was a downvote system, I guarantee you that the supposed "support" for this implementation of duo queues would have been heavily contested.. even by duo players.

[empty valve]

Forcing players into a competitive situation fractures them more than adding a duo mode, as it makes players uninterested. Many new people drop the game before getting invested -- see how OW, tf2, etc all handle comp/casual

Also, the game has more than enough players right now to handle the duo/trio fracture

[blazing gyro]

You would think this would be the case, but at least on both USW and USE. Ruins became much more gear stacked and less noob friendly (forcing a competitive situation ironically, which you are speaking against). People avoid ruins more than they did before duo queues, not because of the map.. but because of limitations and probably the way the meta has shifted as well/player count did drop too.

I would however, like to see the stats on player counts/activity/etc on ruins before and after the duo change.

[empty valve]

Id say the player drop is due to outside issues, other than duo maps. The gear stacking is entierely a MAP issue, as the map itself is very easy. No down portal, very few enemies spawn, etc. Once you become the kitted player, theres nothing to stop you besides other kitted players. This is contrast to crypts, as there are many more enemies, more mini bosses, and big rooms with LOTS of enemies

Id say thats why goblin caves suck too, as there are too many basic enemies for fresher players to handle. But once you get very good gear, those basic enemies become lackluster -- along with other poor map design flaws

[blazing gyro]

I think the overall design of ruins is rather fine, minus the cockatrice. Whoever came up with that and balanced it should actually be ashamed. I am pvp minded, so a more open pvp-focused map like ruins was honestly a huge plus to me. I spend more solo/duo time in ruins than I do in crypts, even before the duo change.

The gear stacking though.. was not in the same presence before the duo change.. so you can't just blame the map alone here.

[ivory torrent]

Suggestion - make block list 'CHARACTER WIDE' so we don't have to re-block all the same gold sellers 🙏

[empty valve]

Oh I 100% agree on the cockatrice, but I think theres only 1 spawn on the corner of the map lol. But do keep in mind, other players prefer PVE over PVP, so we have to find a way to balance it, I think crypts did it really well, but doing solo crypts is rough due to the amount of spawns

[empty valve]

Also gear stacking has always been an issue, its an issue in EVERY map to be honest. Kitted solos in goblin caves, etc. It's unfun to newer players -- before and after duo change

[blazing gyro]

I play fighter/rogue/wiz, so I probably don't really consider the amount of spawns in crypts to be anything. all 3 classes can easily kite or just move on as needed. But, I do see where you're getting at with that. That said, "other players" having preference for pvp or pve is sort of.. Like the game is simply a PvPvE game. People trying to minimize risk by forcing that they can only face other duos, so they won't be in unfair situation.. is an issue with the balancing of 3's (and mostly bard currently) vs we needed to force duo queues to be a thing. I am fairly certain the duo queues polls would have had thousands of downvotes were downvotes allowed, then that change would have not been an easy one for the devs to make.

[crystal valley]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490301/all-4-perk-slots-avialable-at-level-1

[lilac silo]

get very good at hiding

[empty valve]

I dont really think theyd have that many downvotes, MANY people were asking for duos since the start of the first launch. The concept vs execution is a different subject, i dont think they did it correctly but thats why its experimental right now

[empty valve]

I dont think we're gonna change either of our minds, to be fair

[blazing gyro]

I only know this. The person who was loudest in advocating/responsible for the poll of duo queues was spamming their poll in every channel off cooldown for days if not over a week+. This wildly skewed how that poll was voted on.

[granite plinth]

duos good

3 man sweat lords with bard cleric fighter can ligma

[blazing gyro]

Sure, but just nerf bard and support buff stacking, then 2v3 fights are more manageable even for the lower skilled players with less game knowledge than someone who sweats.

[granite plinth]

yeah i do agree, if bard was nerfed into the ground, then going up against 3 mans might be doable. like in the early playtests, it was fun.

Bard has single handidly ruined the game

[blazing gyro]

Excuse me, don't nerf bard. Rework bard entirely, as my suggestion poll suggests xD

Just nerfing bard is not enough. The class needs a full passover and rework to actually warrant being in the game. Bard should exist, just not in its current form. I do agree that compared to the game state prior to bard release, that bard has ruined group play and just the overall atmosphere of the game.

[granite plinth]

nah nuke bard, fatman his ass. send him back to lumbridge, sit him on the naughty step, take his chocolate. slap him a little and steal his lute

i do believe they will make the necissary adjustments though, theyve done well with everything so far. just takes time

[blazing gyro]

Most of my fights, whether I'm solo/duo/trio.. now consist of the same strategy... Kill the bard and shut him up, so that the atrocity of design/balance is removed from the fight. And also, nobody wants to hear that music for the Nth time. Just kill it with fire.

[granite plinth]

just remove bard imo, straight up. like hes done nothing but bring the game down.

That is an unlikely outcome though.

So a total rework will suffice.

Would love to see the back of that character though.

early playtests were peak dark and darker. theyve added too much to the pot and jumbled it up

bards should
-not be able to use bows or crossbows
-not be a walking unlimited bandage
-not be able to cast more than 1 spell at a time
-have limited uses on their instruments
-choke on a chicken bone

[blazing gyro]

I agree about the peak, but tbh if the devs are running with the Dungeons and Dragons theme as they have stated they will do... then bard/druid/monk/paladin/necromancer/sorcerer are all still in the fold to be added. Bard just has to be taken seriously in the rework, even though it's been stated that the CEO was overseeing development of bard and based it off his days in EQ. It's been made more than apparent by many voices in the community that bard is poorly executed in concept/design and is a balance nightmare. Here's to hoping they do that rework sooner than later, because the game will bleed players with the metahop bard carry fad becoming more&more known and abused. That group that only managed to extract 3 times over a 7 hour playthrough that suddenly managed 7 straight extracts after they had a bard join comp or one of them learned to play bard properly... are not high skill.. they are just metahopping and abusing game balance issues.. Noobs are facing this more and more often. They uninstall.

[granite plinth]

agreed

ive got 3 friends whove all lost interest

unkillable, meta gamers are not what makes people want to learn the game

[blazing gyro]

Well, most of these bard groups are pretty low skill tbh and position very poorly/often leave their bards as free picks. But groups that do not leave their bard vulnerable may still be killable, but when you consider that rmters are becoming more and more prevalent.. gear discrepancy is still very high.. certain class skills are still obviously overtuned.. and buffs with overvalued tooltips/durations are being layered.. It just makes it an extremely unhealthy environment for a player trying to learn and enjoy the game. Bard absolutely dumpstered much of the ability for new players to learn on the fly properly. I mean, I have too many hours in this game and if I see a bard/barb/wiz comp.. I am going the other direction if I'm solo most times. I shouldn't be thinking, this fight will be unplayable if they are competent enough.. because of the way bard interacts with this group and wiz stacking buffs on top.

Anyways, I'm going to go crash. gg's though

[granite plinth]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489361/non-high-roller-queues

[lusty iron]

something needs done about gold buying/selling spammers in trade chat. the block feature isn't working anymore and they are rampant on the trade chat. only way I've found to combat them as an individual is to spam them with trade requests. as one person I can't do much.

[granite plinth]

ggs loke, night mate

[sleek timber]

remove wizard invisibility spell for teamates

[upper hearth]

Add more skill based counters similar to longsword to each class. Reposte and lunge for Rogue, crush an attack for barb, insta zap with wizard ect

[graceful yew]

Cap movespeed at 100%. There is no reason Rogues should get to run at 102% speed WITH WEAPON AND ARMOR OUT

[lofty cobalt]

Just an idea for a long sword perk on Warlock:
After a successful parry of a weapon, be able to do a quick slash from the side into their gut, in turn doing damage normal to an average swing while also adding a weakness effect like the curse Warlock has for 8sec or so.
Just thought having the ability to use a long sword (and that landing a parry is no different than a block currently) with a perk like this it could add some fun to a full fighter warlock.

[ripe haven]

I've been fighting them like that for three weeks. You're not alone.

[lusty iron]

@ripe haven real line holder shctuffs right there

[ripe haven]

They're not bots, that's the ridiculous part. It seems to me they're human beings who are boxing multiple accounts, multiple windows. Hang in there, and report them using #1056520745330675763 with a screenshot link.

[grizzled surge]

i can't tell if this is bait lol

[lusty iron]

yeah the really sad part is they are probably in a financially broken nation and that's how they make money. crazy honestly

[prime roost]

anyone else think wizards should have a few more waepon option

[stuck perch]

I think wizards should have more spell options.

[unique wadi]

I vote, we make it so rapier's can parry against one another

[prime roost]

That too tbh since it is a wizard, though when i look at the options a wizard has for weapons its pretty horrendous imo

what ive been thinking a lot is weapons should be used by all classes but there should be something like a proficiency level set to make it so fighters are good at their weapons like swords, barbarians with axes etc

[stuck perch]

Depends. A lot of the time I recognize what my opponents are playing based on what weapons they're using. Barbarians should get mastery perks with more weapon types than just axes.

[unique wadi]

like swords and mauls?

[stuck perch]

And polearms

[brazen rose]

when is the training feature coming out?

[stuck perch]

I'd go with Axe, Blade, Blunt Mastery for now. Maybe add in polearm mastery to help bardiche users.

[violet sail]

warlock should be able to use a kriss dagger change my mind

[low meadow]

change the trade cost to a percentage of the trade. greens cost 50g if your lucky you can pull 100g out of gob caves no point in buying gear

[arctic lagoon]

exactly

[lofty cobalt]

It ain't bait lamo, just was using long sword and found it annoying that after a parry I wasn't even positive on a hit

Added stuff is for the funny

[amber abyss]

Goblin Mage SHOT SHOULD NOT FOLLOW YOU!

[rose orbit]

Add a lvl to a solo map so only below lvl 10 can go in and after ya cant go in. Sucks vs fully geared lvl 20 at lvl 2

[violet sail]

so at lvl 10 i magically gainf riends?

[mighty nexus]

can we get toggle sprint? its only in every game ever made

[rose orbit]

No ya just get a chance to lvl up

after 10 ya get a chance at least, before 10 It feels painful to play vs purple 20's

even with no gear on the 4 perks vs like 1 perk makes it, unfun.

[somber wind]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489940/buff-priority-a-solution-to-issues-with-stacking-support-classes-and-buff-ball

[violet sail]

ok so you want matchmaking? its stupid to limit a solo mode after lvl 10

[empty trail]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490312/tap-click-to-auto-shoot-spells-after-cast
I think this is the most important QoL change I'd like to see for casters. If you guys hate having to perfectly time letting go of a cast right when it finishes please upvote this.

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision Go vote if you agree!

[floral lava]

PVE only characters for you and your friends to be able to boss

[jagged flicker]

This perk trades safety for a faster rest. Curling up, snoring loudly, and losing eyesight.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/479678/barbarian-perk-big-nap

[rose orbit]

I said before 10... You can't read. I never said limit it after...

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486846/add-classic-elf-girl-to-the-store They SIGNIFICANTLY changed the elf girl cosmetic. I miss the Classic Look. We PAID for the classic look. I miss the old faces, they should make them available.

[amber abyss]

Fix footsteps. I never hear enemies till theyre next to me

[simple raft]

we need a globar lvl and rewards that dont reset

[simple raft]

like skins and badges

[spring hound]

bro nerf achilles strike that shit should NOT be able to 1 tap rogues like its impossible to fight if u get hit by a single francesca axe with achilles, ive been 1 tapped so many times. even if i dont move i take 60~ hp and cant go anywhere and just get him by another

[rapid tendon]

@spring hound yeah i dont agree that throwables should be able to carry effects like achiles strike and rupture etc. especially achieles strike... like now you cant run and the barbarian 1-2 taps you with a green horseman axe while youre in full blues or purples? okay lol

[crystal valley]

why worry about levels at all? just give level 1 characters all perk slots right away and have levels only factor into HR access

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490301/all-4-perk-slots-avialable-at-level-1

[cedar wadi]

Remove tax from trading.

[grizzled surge]

you should probably know that longsword has riposte on parry, and its just a better version of what you are pitching

[ivory quartz]

Just a bad matchup, don't try and fight barb as Rogue, unless you are stacked.

[ivory quartz]

One of best suggestions I've seen.

[jagged flicker]

Aw thank u. I was resting as barb and I was like, I HAVE 90 HP LEFT TO GO STILL AGH

[spring hound]

and if im forced to?

[ivory quartz]

then you played rogue incorrectly

[spring hound]

im not a rat rogue.. also i was fully kitted, got hit by a single axe AND STOOD STILL and my health dropped from 100 to 30 instantly

[ivory quartz]

Then why didnt you just kill him, if you were fully kitted, you certainly should have been able too. Unless you wasted cooldowns.

[spring hound]

i got hit by a single axe.. and got dropped to 30..

[ivory quartz]

Then should have dodged it, you certainly have the movespeed on rogue to do so, more so than anyother class. Honestly I cant imagine what situation you got in to allow for that to happen, should have been camping a corner and backstabbed him for 100 damage before he even noticed you, if you were fully kitted.

[spring hound]

youre stupid. im not argueing a brickwall

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision Go vote if you agree!

[vernal lotus]

i know you are but what am I? gottem DAB DAB

[neat mantle]

It's more punishing to lose hours spent assembling a kit in Trade Market than it is to lose said kit.
This fact alone shows trade market needs changed. I don't dread losing my gear, I dread the return to the Market.

[spring hound]

your right i shouldve been jacking off in the corner to my little pony.. sorry not my interest...

[ivory quartz]

As I said not playing rogue right, I think a different class might be more up your alley.

[spring hound]

i think your wrong

[spring hound]

are you on the rogue leaderboards? i did NOT think so.

just because a rogue isnt "supposed" to fight a barb doesnt mean its never going to happen, and it DOES because barbs bring them SPECIFICALLY TO 1 TAP ROGUES...

[violet sail]

is he justifying throwing axe+achilles strike lol

[ivory quartz]

I mean the class is rogues hard counter it is the worst matchup for rogues. The way you play it is generally to avoid it, or put adavantages in your corner. It looks like you did neither than complaining because you took a bad fight and lost.

[spring hound]

yeah hes trying to i guess, ^ it doesnt disregard the fact a throwing axe CAN DO 70 FUCKING DAMAGE

[ivory quartz]

Just dodge, not that hard honestly. Achilles strike fist is honestly more of a problem.

[spring hound]

"just dodge" i just dont think you are good at all is the funny part, i dont think your on any leaderboards, killed any bosses. and here you are... quick question what class do you play

[violet sail]

LMAOOOO "just dodge" you can say that for every single thing in the game bro 💀

[spring hound]

sitting your ass in suggestion chat trying to justify one of the most broken features in the game

• its like saying wizards didnt need a nerf...
• or bards wernt op..
  the fact is its still insane damage for FUCKING THROWABLE THAT YOU CAN BUY IN THE SHOP FOR 18 COINS

[ivory quartz]

It says on my profile I main rogue, I rarely get hit by franciscas, its not that hard to avoid them. It even lights up to warn you that you have to dodge it, then after you do they are down a major source of damage.

[spring hound]

"main rogue" are you on any leaderboards?

[ivory quartz]

I never said Wizard and Bard aren't op Wizard and bard are the first and Second Strongest classes respectively.

[violet sail]

rogue isnt the only class in the game, can't dodge much as a cleric and if you get hit you have to stand still to not take dmg , which makes the barb just rush you down

[spring hound]

yeah im just listing other stupid op features, in listing with achilles strike on axes..

[ivory quartz]

Cleric is weak to barb as well, and has much fewer options. At higher lvl play you should win with your superior DR unless they also have reckless strike.

[spring hound]

what class can you fight a barb with achilles strike? ranger? thats the only one... maybe wizard.. only fucking range, and if you want to fight it as a melee you cant.. because it has 70 dmg axes.

[violet sail]

achil literally fixes the only thing barb is bad at which is speed and distance, pair that with his insta move speed skill he can run most people down

and pair that with a wizard and bard and no one can run away

[ivory quartz]

Ranger, Wizard, Fighter, Warlock, Bard. All these classes beat Barb once geared (and I do mean while fighting and equally geared barb). I will admit that Barb beats most everyone in a default kit save Ranger, but we shouldn't balance skills based on their performance on the lowest lvl of play.

[jagged flicker]

It's their only good ranged option.

[ivory quartz]

Buffed up anyone with a wizard and Bard behind them will steamroll. You nerf Barb then fighter will be the new buffball target. Nerf Fighter and Rogue will be the new buffball, then Warlock, then Bard. and now the problem is solved.

[spring hound]

what do you mean "lowest level of play" just make the achilles or for that matter, ANY perk, apply to throwbals.

[ivory quartz]

Exactly it is the only possible gap closer the class has to achilles and throw a francisca.

[spring hound]

you dont have to nerf barb, just nerf all perks. being able to be applied to throwables.

[ivory quartz]

having perks apply to throwables is a fun an interesting mechanic that allows for different types of play and lets certain classes overcome weaknesses. As a rogue player you should appreciate this.

[violet sail]

💀

[spring hound]

nah id rather nerf barb then be able to use throwing knifes with rupture

[subtle summit]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/479719/barbarian-perksskills-need-rework

[zenith oyster]

fix buff meta- dont allow wizards to cast haste and invis on anyone but them selves. Remove Buff shrines all together from the game, this will overall balance the play of the game no more rushing shrines then spawns.

[granite plinth]

@zenith oyster agree with the wizard angle, the shrines are cool though i think. just my opinion

[vernal lotus]

Smells like a whole lotta get good in here

[jagged flicker]

buffs are fine in an rpg

[sturdy sandal]

notification sound for invites?

[ivory quartz]

I think Making Haste and Invis self cast only would be a good change. Wizard keeps getting nerfed every patch, and it is because they have all this extra utility.

[jagged flicker]

u mean MAGIC?

[ivory quartz]

Wiard is a fun class in this game that really lives up to the fantasy, better than probably any other game on the market. But they keep getting nerfed every patch making it really disheartening for wizard players. The reason being that their ability to buff other people takes up so much of the power budget, and leads to problems like the current buffball meta.

[jagged flicker]

I don't think nerfing them more because their buffs, buff people is a good idea.

Some classes have good buff duration on them, so that'd be the place to nerf instead of the class itself if this is the issue.

[ivory quartz]

My issue is that every patch Wizard gets nerfed, and it gets nerfed because it can cast haste and invis on a barbarian. So because wizard can do that, they get their magic missle damage nerfed, they get their attribute bonuses nerfed, they get their cast speed nerfed. And I can't fully disagree because despite the nerfs Wizard is still probably the best class in the game.

[jagged flicker]

Attribute nerfs were from one taps with purple gear.

I don't agree the Beyblade strat was the linchpin in their nerfs.

[ivory quartz]

Well I heard someone sugges changing how buffs work, like making haste and invis not stack by giving priority to one over the other. Or making it so you can only have one not self casted buff at a time, if some overall changes were made that resolved the buffball meta I dont think Wizards would be a prob anymore. I should state I think Bard is a bigger problem with the overall buffball meta than wizard is.

[jagged flicker]

Buff is kinda their whole kit.
Barring survival bow+swords

[ivory quartz]

Thats the other reason why I haven't made any suggestions on how bard should be nerfed. I think Bard is really well designed from a gameplay and theme based standpoint. It is the best interpretation of Bard I have ever seen in a videogame, and I don't want to lose that. But it is obvious that the class is a balance nightmare, and I haven't been able to think of any solutions. So that's why I just dont mention them.

[jagged flicker]

Yeah they really NAIL the core of each fantasy well. It's never NOT satisfying exploding a chest with barbarian.

If I hear casting right by a door I run away. The invis has 5 seconds and the achilles Barb is never too far behind.

[spring hound]

@ivory quartz i decided to go barb, and i ran through lobbies compeltely naked barb. with achillies and guess who i got halfed by in 1 hit.. another barb with an achilles fanchesca

[jagged flicker]

Rogues, fighters, and barbs canprocranged abilities if they land their shot/throw.

[drowsy grotto]

Goblin caves is close to unplayable because of achillies strike, it should be on miss it gets removed instead of on hitting an object.
I keep talking about nerfing the actual ability but I think it'd be better if players had to be punished because they hold onto the ability (and make it so other on-hit effects work similarly such as blow of corruption)

Playing around an ability that isn't stoppable is horrible

[ivory quartz]

So you lost a mirror matchup?

[spring hound]

i got hit by an achilles.. one axe and i lost half my hp AS A BARB... it just proves they do a stupid amount of damage

[ivory quartz]

Don't move after getting hit man, thats the punish. When I play fighter and get hit with the achilles I stand still and take the fight.

[spring hound]

im not your man. sorry im not into dudes. glhf gang, your take is TERRIBLE. it needs a nerf, there is no saying "dodge it"

[lilac silo]

ideally, achilles (and weakpoint and rupture) would fade from the user's hands after some time, the way victory strike and blow of corruption do
right now, you can't "wait out" these skills
the first hit they land on you is guaranteed to be excessively strong, there's little counterplay there.

(of course, achilles having high bonus damage AND slow AND damage-per-step is an issue in its own right, it doesn't need to do all 3 of those things, it could just be one or two)

[ivory quartz]

I would agree to this, It should fade if not used. I even have problems with this on rogue, Icant remove my rupture if I activate and not use it, and am now stuck with a glow around my hands everyone can see.

[icy panther]

Hit a wall

[ivory quartz]

Yeah I would agree to a nerf to achilles strikes current damage formula, Last I looked at it, it was some busted nonsense that applied +wep damage to every step taken, so with Axe specialization the ability does 15 extra damage for free ontop the 5 extra just for landing the hit.

[ivory quartz]

I have tried that but for somereason it doesnt always work.

[icy panther]

Has to be in full swing, cant just tap it when your attack is still offscreen, seems to have a minimum time before it counts.

[ivory quartz]

ahh, well thank you for the advice.

[zealous fog]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488680/remove-instadeath-last-circle

[frail surge]

I am convinced THEY ADDED GEAR BASED MATCH MAKING FOR HR

You still can get geared people if you run greys.
But as soon as you throw on blues and purples your lobbies fill with full kits.

Its so dumb and this mechanic should only be in normals and not HR.

Ik if I run my good gear in HR im going to lost to a kid who plays 90 hours a week.

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision Go vote if you agree!

[spring hound]

i fight geared guys as naked in HR all the time. i am convinced youre wrong

[frail surge]

read the post
If thats too difficult
Then keep to yourself

[ivory quartz]

It's just badluck, they do not have anyform of gearbased matchmaking in this game.

[spring hound]

i mean vise versa, i fight nakeds when i go kitted aswell

[turbid hamlet]

Wrong

[drowsy grotto]

(Clearly you've never fought a player with a felling axe)
or you only run as a lobster in low roller goblin caves

[icy panther]

We need to nerf the only thing that rogue has left; weakpoint + hide. That way rogue can finally be balanced (can't kill me anymore)

[drowsy grotto]

Anyways I think achillies strike should be removed on miss and same with blow of corruption, barely any counter-play against those two skills.

[jolly lagoon]

blow of corruption already get remove when u miss

[icy panther]

The counterplay to boc is wait it out.
The counterplay to achilles is dodge the francisca.

[drowsy grotto]

No, only if you hit a wall? (am i wrong)

[jolly lagoon]

yeah but vs achillies strike he can miss in wall he doesnt remove the spell

[icy panther]

Achilles is gone if you hit wall or miss francisca

[drowsy grotto]

So what you're saying is the counter to a character that has close-medium range magic is to wait it out, you do understand that not only will the goober heal but he will still deal damage. And "dodge the fransica" is dumb since fists and axes exist.

[crystal valley]

cause francisca hits a wall/floor when you miss

[icy panther]

To counter warlock you sit back and wait out boc, then smash his skull in with a rock.
Yes, achilles applied on melee is stupid and I ain't gonna argue that.

[drowsy grotto]

If a warlock has half decent aim then it shouldn't be a problem for them if you're staying out of range.

[icy panther]

Then sit behind a wall

[drowsy grotto]

what if he just chases you with it?
He has half decent speed and longsword jumps can reach pretty easily.

[spare plaza]

fix mob projectile pathing

[lilac silo]

warlock lacks the movespeed for this to be an issue lul
speaking as a warlock main, all someone has to do to render BoC useless is wait it out and use obstacles to block line of sight
you'd think that'd be difficult, but there's a surprising amount of rooms with random pillars/tables/corners that just make this not as threatening as you think it is

[icy panther]

So here's the fun part. Either he's slow as shit with a falchion+ball combo or longsword since thats at minimum 40 movespeed lost. You then say "well he has spells" so the solution is to dodge or get behind cover and continue waiting it out. When you rush a warlock and he's trying to cast shit on you because boc expired, the warlock dies because his spells do jack shit unless you sit in a hellfire.

[drowsy grotto]

I guess you're right, but still achillies should have the "on miss remove" thing

[lilac silo]

the fact that it CAN be waited out is a weakness, but it's a fair weakness
achilles does not have that weakness

achilles does remove if you miss a francisca
none of these buffs are removed if you whiff a swing in the air

[icy panther]

The ONLY burst a warlock realistically will deal to you is boc and it has 2 ways to go away, thats why approaching a warlock isn't an issue unless they have boc ready. And if they do, you sit back and laugh.

[lilac silo]

CoP has the potential to do almost as much damage as Zap if the warlock is stacked like many wizards are
but warlock lacks the movespeed to really be as threatening as wizard is in that situation
(and CoP has less range than Zap lul)

[icy panther]

Base staff + boc with malice can oneshot other classes at base gear, except barb.
It's very funny

[lilac silo]

aye, but that's nakeds versus nakeds

[icy panther]

I think people don't like boc because its burst that pairs with melee so engaging a warlock too early feels like a losing battle. Falchion+ball combo hits hard and parry longsword boc also slaps everyones shit

[quasi sparrow]

Barbarian feed back Suggestion -
Right now meta is axe, specially Horseman because of the movement speed issue.
This is a problem due to barbarians being very linear in how you play.

My suggestions would be:

• to swap potion perk with drunken perk in cleric
• Make a leap attack skill for twohanders only (massive leap but downside is the speed it takes to recover and you are unable to use one handers and throwables)
• make a sword specialisation perk ,
  Now adding on to swords, it would be nice if you could add Colossal swords, hear me out.
  If you don't have the sword perk on, then the colossal sword drags on the ground and makes a ton of noise but also makes a wide attack. but with the perk, you can carry it on your shoulder and do a shoulder/gravity/downwards swing that does the same damage as the wide attack, but once its off your shoulder, its only wide swings. once you arn't attacking after 3 seconds, you automatically put the sword back on your shoulder.

This would substantially make barb more fun and allow a variety of different choices when choosing skills.
Would also stop the horsemans axe meta. which is boring

If you're a Berserk fan, you may understand the want for this build.

[icy panther]

Doesn't really mean boc is too strong, just that people point to it as an issue when it's not.

[ivory quartz]

BOC is an overtuned ability, it is extremely strong and can one tap many people even through armor. But it is all Warlock has at the moment being an unfinished class. Nerfing it without adding more options to the class will just completely remove the viability of what is already one of the weaker classes in the game.

[drowsy grotto]

The issue with it is the fact it's a noob stomper, players with an understanding on how to counter it can fight against it easily (apparantly) and can literally oneshot close to any geared player minus barbs and fighters ig

Personally I just think it's unfun to go against (any counter to an ability being the fact it's timed is stupid, I want actual counter-play)

[lilac silo]

I don't think BoC is an issue at high level, because, well
how is the warlock gonna get in melee range of the wizard who deals 70 damage per zap and has 350 move speed?

[drowsy grotto]

Warlock in general is a noob stomper

[icy panther]

Barbarian himself without achilles is a noobstomper.
Rogue is a noobstomper.
Ranger is a noobstomper.
Hell even cleric solo in gob caves can noobstomp.
Boc at no point is an issue unless you can make it oneshot at equal gear, which is extremely rare and I start having to ask if its even possible, but if it was possible then no one will run it because you can achieve better results with wizard zap that has the same base damage, but its ranged and comes out faster while never having a time expiration.

[lilac silo]

considering there are barbarians with 70% phys and 70% magic resist
BoC is NOT an issue at equal gear
if you had a warlock as geared as those barbarians, BoC wouldn't oneshot the barb

[drowsy grotto]

You say that as if you aren't comparing them to eachother

[icy panther]

No, I am directly comparing them to eachother because they're both 20 magic damage.

[ivory quartz]

BOC is better at higher lvls of play where the ability to multiply its damage and then hit through armor really matters. Its just that Warlock is worthless after it casts it.

[drowsy grotto]

?

[icy panther]

I'm saying I AM comparing them to eachother

[lilac silo]

yeah, but
achilles isn't magic damage
nor is it 20

[icy panther]

I am not comparing achilles
I am comparing zap and boc

[lilac silo]

ah
yeah, in that case zap wins out every time
it can't headshot, but range is one of the most valuable advantages one can have

[icy panther]

Range, speed and the fact you can cast it back to back

[errant sigil]

This sounds awesome! The leap sounds broken af but it needs to prevent you from using anything other than a two hander. Throwing axes too

[quasi sparrow]

exactly man, If you use the leap, you cant use throwable nor one handers

[errant sigil]

Epic

[low geyser]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489239/slightly-greater-consequences-for-hitting-shields