suggestion-discussion

[abstract swallow]

honestly there's no point to any sort of gear limited game modes unless it's something, like, the first week of wipes or some kind of time-limited event

[vivid warren]

A Hardcore game with a Softcore class
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488695/a-hardcore-game-with-a-softcore-class

[junior timber]

Just saying, with how frequent these servers just getting ddos’d, put in a gear insurance system like Tarkov has. Pay some gold to make some poor fucking squire grab your gear

[abstract swallow]

The game really doesn't need wealthy players recycling even more gear

[cerulean pollen]

SUGGESTION LIST FOR WARDENS TO PASS ON TO DEVS

**#1 **- Increase AI / NPC difficulty. Most enemies are too easy, and there's very little reason to ever work together with strangers outside of your group in 99% of scenarios as the dungeon is not nearly threatening enough and lowers emergent social gameplay.

**#2 **- Shuffle the spawn locations of loot, monster, trap, shrine buffs, chests, etc. Most players more than week old have figured out where to go for the good stuff, and what to avoid.
It's important to keep the chaos of the dungeon high, and predictability low.

**#3 **- Dramatically lower the drop rate of good gear. The time needed for good players to start their high-roller loot cycle is very short, even on fresh wipes.

Having less good gear means a more even playing field for skill expression, and increases new-player longevity as they have a chance to learn the game better.

**#4 **- Flesh out existing classes more. Having new classes added is fun and all, and we're all enjoying them, but many of the core classes are still lacking severely in spells, and/or perk options.

**An example: Wizard barely has 2 rows of perks while Rogue has 4+ rows. Fleshing out existing classes makes adding classes in the future easier as the previous ones have a more clearly established role, and makes balancing easier.
**
WARDENS PLEASE SEND FEEDBACK TO GOD KING GRAYSUN

[hallow saffron]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com

Honestly this is probably the better spot for you to field these suggestion. this channel is really just for discussion

[small furnace]

should def remove achilles strike on throwing axes, if rupture was op on throwing knife then sure as hell getting 1-tapped while running away by a throwing axe is OP af

[elfin vigil]

Wdym no point ? For players that come in after 1 month or players that chained lost games it might be interesting

[rigid pier]

they took rupture off throwing knives?

[ivory quartz]

Because gear is the core aspect of this and anyother full loot pvp game. Fighting people with gear disparities is a central part of this game

[small furnace]

Unless I'm mistaken I thought they did yeah

[hallow saffron]

dont think it got removed. weakpoint still procs on throwing knives too

[reef cosmos]

so the ppl who are not being able to login are doing what?

[small furnace]

Well, achilles strike is still way more broken than those other two.

[rancid hinge]

heres my suggestion stop letting this shit happen: https://youtu.be/HL7SmfgDiBg <- they are literally in discord teaming its that coordinated LOL

[icy panther]

Hey guys, I just died to warlocks curse of pain. Can we nerf that? I shouldn't be dying.

[rancid hinge]

Barb is completely balanced when you go against a ranger or wizard so unless they plan to remove both those classes from the game they literally can't nerf barb lol

[elfin vigil]

Yes but why not make a mode with less risk less reward for beginners or bad player ? Ur not gonna loose gear from that mode you could even argue ur gonna gain gear in normal mode because there won’t be as much nakeds so more interesting and higher stake fights

[small furnace]

I don't want them to nerf barb, give him something to compensate but achilles on a throwing axe is fundamentally broken.

[rancid hinge]

being allowed to eat insta potions for 25 hp and instantly shoot 3 arrows with bows that can kill you in 2 hits isn't tho? or going against 5 fireballs and zaps that do more than half your HP at once with a character that is fundamentally faster than rogue because of haste invis LOL

just think about it, like a rogue can also destroy a barb weakpoint poison ambush you have the barb 1 hp and run away and then do it again like its at a pretty balanced point they just need to rework the ranged classes a bit and lower their overall damages

[small furnace]

barking up the wrong tree, barb needs buffs I think they're underpowered. I just don't want achilles strike on a throwing axe in the game.

[rancid hinge]

I do so long as rogue has rupture on throwing knives and wizards and rangers have ranged abilities so should the other classes its there to give them a fighting chance against longbow ranger and zap wizard lol

[small furnace]

Rangers are a ranged class, barb is not. 1-tapping someone as a non-ranged class with a ranged option seems kinda broken to me.

[rancid hinge]

I mean all they have to do is make it to where all ranged classes like ranger and wizard take more damage from throwable items overall like 20% more from knives and axes and then make the other classes take like -20% from throwables and boom their game is balanced lol

[icy panther]

The axe is fine.
The torches are not.

[haughty helm]

rapier is overall busted, i shouldnt be able to die to a gray rouge rapier with plus 11+ magical healing while being healed by a potion and power of sacrifice plus power of pain. rouge class + rapier = free kills (cause i fought 6 people before i died and won every fight so how can a default rouge kill me while being healed that much)

[rancid hinge]

sounds like a skill issue if you ask me, you coulda just 1 shot the rogue LOL

[rancid hinge]

also thank you for pointing out the other thing that needs nerfed Warlocks magical healing is extremely busted its like better than a clerics healing LOL

[icy panther]

I gotta agree with @rancid hinge, that's a major skill issue, he simply kited you correctly.

[rancid hinge]

overall the game is truly at a pretty balanced point I think that bard could use a few nerfs for example when you use his weakness he actually weakens the invisible rogues which imo is busted also probably not intended and I think that all the ranged classes should take more damage from throwables and all the other classes should take less I did mention 20% more for ranged classes and -20% for non ranged classes which imo seems quite reasonable and then obviously rogues double jump height should be reverted but the weakpoint or ambush should be nerfed closer to 40% on both, warlock needs a nerf on its magical healing definately lower that and I can say that Barb itself could use a buff but the achiles heel and the Horseman axe could use a nerf or a rework entirely

also I have to say rangers need a heavy nerf as well their rations should be like 15 or 20 since a lesser heal for a cleric is 15 and rangers just spawn as a free kit its super busted and their damage as soon as you get a longbow is absolutely astonishing like maybe nerf longbow itself or lower the headshot perk to maybe like 5% headshot buff

and again IP hardware ban these kind of players please: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL7SmfgDiBg

#NoMoreTeamersInSoloDungeons

[elfin vigil]

Killing people with torches is the funniest thing ever

[elfin vigil]

Why wouldn’t the rogue be weakened ? Invisible doesn’t involve they didn’t hear the music

[icy panther]

Yeah I appreciate bard as an anti-rogue, I think that's fine.

[hallow saffron]

you can actually report this. if you check #📢community-announcements they are against teaming like these guys seem to have done.

[somber wind]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489109/constitution-barbarian-rebalance

Hmm I might've malformed that first sentence in trying to make it fit into the character limit. I think I get my point across still though.

[hallow saffron]

hell no keep spiders weak sauce those things are disgusting enough without having high health pools

I am aware of that spider, it can spawn or a rez shrine. its disgusting and should be burned with fire >:C

[errant sigil]

Was just about to post this! Swapping the damage stats of recurve and long bow and dropping recurve based on those stats. Lowering survival even more but reducing its move speed. To -25 which matches hatchet speed.

[hallow saffron]

youre ASSUMING I thought that. I was thinking there were more then just that one spider, like a much bigger one.

[errant sigil]

This will never pass barbarian is one noted and only a concern in 3’s. The class is heavily gear based and I’ve rarely if ever had my health to 200+ without using rage and shouts at the same time. I play two handed barb and you lose all stat advantages because you’re naked to deal with the massive move speed debuff. The problem is the barbarian chest piece needs to be adjusted accordingly. It’s got 62+ armor is green and only -15 to speed. It’s the equivalent of a dark plate chest with -15 less mvmnt the fact that we can run with a one hander and full plate is broken.

[somber wind]

It's a concern in 3s and 1s. That said I can agree on the chest armor.

[errant sigil]

It’s only a concern in goblin cave because there is no gear score or gear color required item rarity for normals. If you could find blue loot in the normals but not be able to walk in with them it would balance everything.

The gear dif is way to high between naked and blues. It’s night and day a massive difference.

[somber wind]

That's true (that said I don't think gear score is the solution tbh; I think it's a bandaid and would feel really really bad).

[hallow saffron]

Ima be real, I personally dont really have an issue when I run into green/blue barbs in GC. Its the blue fighters and rogues that I have issues with. then againima cleric and just smite and judgement my foes so

[grave veldt]

Only if it is preplanned and they are queueing together to get into each others games and you'll need proof they are

Just so that you know

[small furnace]

Man is it just me or are people teaming in GC way more now? Especially clerics man, I'm getting rushed down by 3 man teams in GC with cleric buffs on them.

Think it would be a good idea to make it so cleric can't buff others in GC. Teaming is fine in some circumstances if it's not coordinated but I think being able to give buffs and heals to others is kinda meh.

[grave veldt]

Interesting idea actually not allowing casting to others, in solos atleast

[hallow saffron]

yeah the video he linked it seemed preplanned, you can only hear the one barbarian talk and then a second barb and a bard all in sync start chasing and try to kill him without talking once in game. I coulda worded it better meant "they are against teaming in the way these guys seem to have done"

[small furnace]

Yeah 100%, being able to cast on enemies is good in teams because it means clerics have to aim their buffs and not accidentally hit an enemy. In GC though being able to buff enemies is basically just there to get in the way.

[hallow saffron]

already cant cast holy light on enemy players. would be a good change for solos.

[small furnace]

I'm not sure if what's happening to me is pre-planned, cause I see people without VOIP often buffing barbs/fighters as they rush into me. Maybe they just have a crouch agreement, but idk it's a bit of a stretch to have coordinated buffs and rush in moments with just crouching.

[grave veldt]

It is pretty difficult to prove that it is preplanned simply from VoIP unless they admit it or you catch them repeatedly doing it really, main reason the Devs are considering it going forward. Yeah haha that's fair I totally get what you mean, we just get alot of reports without any proof or just assuming all teaming is bannable so just wanted to make sure everyone here knew

[grave veldt]

Yeah admittedly.. it would stop alot of cleric team ups because clerics basically a pocket healer, encourages teaming a little I think and I'm a cleric main so

But I'd be fine with that in solos personally

[small furnace]

Ohhh just noticed you're a staff member ahahah, good to see someone in the trenches in here. You gonna put in a good word for our suggestions

[grave veldt]

Haha I wish I could what I can do is upvote suggestions I like that are made here though https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/

[hallow saffron]

yerp ive been basically preaching that pre-meditated teaming was something devs are wathcing for, for a while now. The announcement just solidified it in my mind. When I first watched his video I thought the barbarian had said "we didnt take any loot. we just wanted the kill" but misheard it.
As a cleric main as well, being able to shield an enemy player should still be a thing imho, but divine strike and bless shouldnt be castable on enemies. Way too many times ive used a protection spell as a bait on an enemy to lull them into a false sense of security before bonking them... cause they killed like 5 people.

[grave veldt]

Yeah as much as I love teaming in trios because it's usually with strangers or someone else who's whole team is dead too lol, love the interactions, in solos it can get rough, and premeditated teaming as a whole is just sad to see

[small furnace]

Pre planned teaming is rough, and hard to deal w/ also hard because idk how much they want to restrict any sort of meta gaming. Like theoretically you could also have people queue together and then one of them instantly kills themselves to give the other a ghost advantage.

It's tough to prove though, even if you know they're on the same friends list, like I know the other day I was just playing on my own and my friend sent me a discord message saying he could 'smell me' showing a screenshot of me killing some dudes in his lobby. I didn't see him, but we somehow ended up in the same lobby without trying, so they could totally argue that too.

[grave veldt]

Nothing like pocket healing a stranger solo in trios when your teams dead on a desperate mission to just get out xD

[hallow saffron]

yeah 100%. I love being adopted as a cleric in threes lol. I need to start doing it again now that voip is back.

Though theres nothing like being adopted by a team just to get your guys rezzed at a shrine when you have requiem and bathing in the blood of your adopted party. mhm mhm

[grave veldt]

Yeah I'm sure in future repeat offenders getting into the same games as their friends repeatedly will get picked up on for solos

[grave veldt]

I sometimes let my friends rush in and die then laugh and tell the enemies 'i don't know those people' then heal their barb (because barb always angry swinging at anything that moves haha)

If I get him on my side I might be ok

[hallow saffron]

[small furnace]

Halftime, switching sides.

[grave veldt]

I have "the friends that want to extract" then "the friends who are cannon fodder and don't care if they wait till I'm out" lol

[hallow saffron]

I have those friends too 😄

[grave veldt]

I'm passive and chatty, my friends are shouty and often dead lol

[small furnace]

Usually when I'm playing 3s me and my boys want to go to hell, so if we find like a stray cleric or bard or someone looking extra poor as a naked we will let them come with us and make sure we find them an extract so they can get out.

[grave veldt]

All they get is a "what did you learn"

[hallow saffron]

I also have the "Lets stay for another fight even though we have full invs and three portals right here. Whyd you leave?!?" friends. like.. im out of spells -_-

[grave veldt]

In playtests I got 12 people into hell lol 9 extracted

[small furnace]

My absolute best impromptu teaming experience was opening the door to the room with like 20 death skulls in it, and finding 3 rangers sitting on the torches in that room. Immediately pelted with arrows and left on 1 health before they go: "Wait, are you friendly?" LIKE MAN I MIGHT'VE BEEN YOU DON'T KNOW THAT BEFORE YOU TURNED ME INTO A PORCUPINE...

Had some fun with that squad for awhile, 3 rangers is pretty satanic but they were chill and it's not like I had any other option, that or die

The fear struck into my heart by 3 rangers all using tripleshot at the same time will never be matched by anything else

[grave veldt]

#dnd-content message

The first link I posted lol that was my experience xD

But it was playtests people are more relaxed haha

[grave veldt]

3 rogues double jumping on the new map outdoors during last playtests was so fun xD

Clear every door with ease

[small furnace]

that is the most people I've ever seen jammed into a tiny room without resulting in slaughter that I've ever seen

[hallow saffron]

bruh do you remember not telling if boarded doors were open or not and just having to walk into them for a few seconds to find out

[grave veldt]

I'll tell you a secret... you know the guy who said "give me your mask" lol that's my friend the one I usually let die... he snuck back in there as we where leaving and killed that lonely rogue

Even after I said leave him alone

[hallow saffron]

I see why you leave him for dead now.

[grave veldt]

Yes lol things didn't break properly visually xD

[grave veldt]

💯

[small furnace]

Karmic justice

[grave veldt]

He's a good kid but he angry and wants everything dead I'm amazed he didn't start stabbing when all of us where in there lol

Probably because he knew he was going back for the rogue

[worn lava]

make it so geared people and non geared people are saperated nobody can play without some group stopping everyone in they track its unfair do something quick otherwise people will just stop playing quick

[outer brook]

Suggestion: Remove all +3all attributes items from the game. Nothing stands a chance against +3 all attributes set. Broken and UNFAIR

[short heath]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

[worn lava]

5 games prob now and every game 1 team geared like usual running through the whole lobby everytime

[wide lagoon]

they messed up when they made HR GC free + having greens and blues spawn +3 all

[slow hearth]

cringe

[short heath]

Yes, such a very productive and meaningful added piece of information you've given.

How bout literally anyone provide an actual argument as to why they think things like this other than "I want to be able to pubstomp full gray teams all day long".

[ivory quartz]

I wouldn't mind segmenting certain lvls of gear power to highroller for example, but skill lvl or gear based matchmaking will only split the playerbase and incerase queue times

[small furnace]

Add a downvote option to suggestions so the suggestion board more realistically reflects what the playerbase wants.

Also prune old suggestions "Unlock all classes from the start" is still there despite that being a confirmed feature now.

Oh I found one for it https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/473584/add-a-downvote-option

[slow hearth]

It's beyond the point of saying anything else bcause you guys don't listen. A big part of the game is variation. Run into geared players? Can you outplay them based on your environment/position? Do you have to run? If you can beat them well you just scored big. Naked squad in front of you? Befriend them? Drop them loot? Annihilate them? Maybe they betray you, maybe you make a new friend. Having a matchmaking algorithm would completely kill the charm of the game. The entire point of extraction-based games is the unpredictability of each match. If you don't enjoy that then you're playing the wrong game.

The majority of people who play these types of games play it due to these factors. If you take that away from them the game is going to fall off hard imo

[wide lagoon]

idk why drum projectile is faster than throwing knifes and throwing axes

[slow hearth]

because it's funny 😂

[worn lava]

id rather have a few extra min of waiting or even seconds a nice lobby everyone has a chance to move upward where people can use skill to win not gear to win

[worn lava]

the map and circle make it sometimes impossible to run you just die

[grave veldt]

Correct

Its early access alot of percentages will change along the way I'm sure haha, but for now the only reason I can think of is because it's very very funny to see lol

And because if was a newer character that needed testing, gives people incentive to try it

[valid furnace]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/485587/bring-old-tavern-back-as-the-starting-area Got another petition for you guys, it's about the starting area before the match starts. Bringing Old Tavern back

[ember rampart]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489175/throwable-that-removes-buffs-wisp-in-a-bottle - Upvote if you care.

[gray talon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489185/rework-hunter-traps-not-beneath-lootable-corpses

would like some opinions on this matter!! especially big trouble in ruins map

[real trellis]

Speaking of counters to the buffball meta: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489186/buff-curse-of-weakness-by-making-it-pause-any-ongoing-buffs

[shell fjord]

id suggest a revert on female cleric face, she looked a lot better before this last update

[strong grotto]

I am noticing, that shield slam is kind of bugged. It isn't consistently connecting with a target, even when it is literally in front of me. Also, shields supposed to be an object that prevents strikes and missiles to follow through them, but when you use the shield slam it appears they aren't blocking anything, like they somehow become object with no "meat".
Is it only me or the skill is actually bugged? Can someone check it, because there is no way I can do it consistently in the game, considering, that when it doesn't connect or doesn't block anything, I, usually, die.

Also, I'd suggest to add some training area aside of lobby, where we can try out the skills and weapons, fight the mobs.

[shell fjord]

PLEASE REVERT FEMALE CLERIC FACE I BEG YOU

[vivid warren]

A Hardcore game with a Softcore class
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488695/a-hardcore-game-with-a-softcore-class

[ember rampart]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489175/throwable-that-removes-buffs-wisp-in-a-bottle - Add a counter to the buff-ball meta.

[vast heath]

Item level.

So people don't farm normal lobbies in purple gear

[winged mortar]

Instead make no items too great they upset the balance

[stuck perch]

We already have a counter although most people don't know about it or use it. They do need more ways to remove buffs though.
if you're wondering which counter I'm talking of, it's a little used spell on the cleric called "Cleanse" it removes all buffs and debuffs from the target.

[stuck perch]

Just let us move corpses.

[wide lagoon]

let us store emotes settings with account and not character

[stuck perch]

Yeah the best quality of gear we should get until we have a different map stack is blue. Decked in all blue is still a pretty big advantage compared to starter sets, we should leave it at that.

[low geyser]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489239/slightly-greater-consequences-for-hitting-shields

[low geyser]

Unfortunalty the length of suggestions is a bit limiting for me to get into great detail, though I think differing durations for heavy or light weapons hitting a shield would also need to be implemented, otherwise it'd be too great a consequence for say rogues because their small daggers would more often than not hit the shield

Plus mechanically it would just make sense that the recoil of a larger weapon is more debilitating than a smaller one

[stuck perch]

Rogues need to get around the shield, not just spam attacks in the hopes that enough hit.

[subtle finch]

Posted some suggestions about removing speed boosts which break the game, and purple/oranges stomping normal lobbies

[vivid warren]

A Hardcore game with a Softcore class
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488695/a-hardcore-game-with-a-softcore-class we discussing about how easy barbarian in solo cave right now have a look and maybe give your opinion

[stuck perch]

The devs have already stated that they will not be balancing classes in regards to solo or duo queues.

[elfin vigil]

Lmao

[low geyser]

Honestly though barbs with horseman's axes were mainly what I had in mind with the shield debuff suggestion, it's just not fun getting rushed down by someone with little armor (meaning more move speed) but so much health and damage that they can kill you with their faster, lighter axe before you have any chance to reposition or counter. Every other weapon I can accept, because they're big and hit hard but also slow, so you can kind of react and hit between swings with enough skill, or at least have a decent fight.

[stuck perch]

Give Barbarians access to round shields and I'm cool with that. I just want to be a viking.

[sly kayak]

Reward Players that reported cheater, that resulted in a ban
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489251/reward-players-for-reporting-hackers

[atomic whale]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488622/fix-mobs-aggro
** Fix Mobs aggro*

[gentle rapids]

Let us use bandages while resting

[jovial swan]

I'ma be real, Rangers shouldn't be able to hold hunting traps. They should be forced to buy them all the time.

[gentle rapids]

Just remove the class

[atomic whale]

not sure if they can buy asset for that animation xD

[gentle rapids]

Wdym? Just use the exiting one… while sitting

[wild ledge]

in unreal engine you can apply the animations as an additive.. otherwise youd need seperate animations for every movement locomotion for every item use /weapon swing.. they can easily apply it to waste up only while sitting with the lower half of the torso on the model

[elfin harness]

So, I hear what you're saying, and I agree that the unpredictability is, to a degree, part of the appeal.

I think what the main complaint is there is no separation between casual, and more extreme players. There is a massive range of people that play games, with varying levels of skill. That is why matchmaking exists in any game in the first place. Not to remove any competition, but to make it more fair.

The best suggestion I've seen is a low roller mode, trash/grays only, but all drops limited to greens, maybe blues, occasionally. Then you wouldn't need matchmaking in regular mode. If you want the greater rewards, you risk running into a super kitted team. If you just want to get some basic white/green gear Without having to worry about getting steamroller, then go into low roller.

[jovial swan]

Judgement is such a skill-less ability.

Even if you try to do the only thing to counter it, it's not even effective because of the server issues in this game.

They need to remove that ability entirely or rework it to only affect mobs. I hate getting my health chunked by some no-skill pansy who thinks he is good because he pressed a single button with zero interaction.

[wild ledge]

judgement gives you enough time to move out of its radius if you catch him casting it right away. cant really claim DDoS and network latency issues as a reason the skill needs a rework.. the same could be said with the bards shreak ability.. if the server is being ddosed you can legit play that song and get it to go off 2-3 times at once and 1hit people through doors/walls... it woulnt' be possible to do that if servers were stable.

[jovial swan]

Brother, you press a button, wait 0.5 seconds and it casts. You know what else does that and was horrible for its game? Dead Hard for DbD.

[wild ledge]

its 0.75 seconds.. and than it applies on the next tick update from the server.. so it actually takes 1 full second to go off... its only a 5m range.. literally just sidestep.. only ppl that it hits are ppl that are mid-swing when its cast.. at which point the cleric is prob dead if not punished for using that ability instead of blocking.. or just sidestep out of it.. only ppl that get hit are those that backpeddle not realizing you move at 50% speed.

[rocky pebble]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488842/treasure-chest-item-to-increase-stash-space

[queen sparrow]

make it so u can 1v1 otther players in a arena or 3v3 otthers smth like that

[cold thicket]

Let us purchase another tab of inventory for something like 5-10k gold. (Gold sinks are always nice)

[foggy grotto]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489289/storing-arrows <- if you're tired of picking up arrows you cant store

[outer radish]

Suggestion in general/ for Barbarian; Give Barbarian a perk that lets him rest quicker because he has so much health it takes 5 minutes to rest up every time or just make resting faster it is so tedious to rest in this game

[foggy grotto]

read the pinned message

[supple crater]

FIX THE FUCKING RANDOMLY AUTO ATTACKING LOOP

[supple crater]

Just give them instant full hp ikr and +50 movement speed it's tedious to run after people

[scarlet creek]

Sidestepping doesn't matter as you don't need to keep your crosshair on target after starting the judgement. If you are within 5 meters it will hit.

[wild ledge]

i was commenting on the target sidestepping vs backpeddling (like 99% of the playerbase does).. to get out of the 5m radius.

[scarlet creek]

Yeah, you lose about 30% speed while backing up, but you can still get out of the radius if you're fast enough.

[outer radish]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489298/make-resting-better

[scarlet creek]

Really, I think they should make the potion chugger perk actually good. Like -50% duration and +50% health

So instead of 35 seconds on a grey potion it would be 17.5 and instead of 15 hp you get 22.5

On a green potion it would be 22.5 health in 10 seconds, which would be 2.25 hp every second, wait no, that's a blue potion. On green it would be 12.5 seconds you get 22.5

Right now, it's just not worth it to run. They should buff some perks and skills to be actually useful and add more to classes who don't have many and fix perks that don't work correctly.

[novel wing]

Bard brings too much utility. Giving them only one music sheet makes them have to really think about what they need to bring in.

[atomic whale]

I already have seen 2 other games with same assets xD
@wild ledge

[bleak oracle]

too many zombies on the map. too many.

[indigo summit]

according to the dark and darker wiki, Longbows make your character stagger for -35% move speed for 1.5s on hit. fair? or what

[bleak oracle]

i think that is because of longer drawback time

[low meadow]

how long does rouges invis last for?

[granite plinth]

deffo more than 2 seconds, but not as many as 100

[ruby carbon]

i love you all, its been fun. ggs dungeon babes. if theres a bunch of updates to group finding and loot system and trading, ill return. the amount of time i spend not playing the game isnt fun anymore.

[granite plinth]

@ruby carbon skill issue

[ruby carbon]

its just labor for no reason, all of this should be a couple clicks, not sitting here in chat channels spamming all day

[granite plinth]

yeah the trading system is actual cancer

merchants should pay more for blue and purple gear

[faint wind]

they wont because they want to force player trading which makes sense but they should change it to a flea market style of trading

[rugged heath]

When are we getting different languages? I would love to be able to play with my friends in mexico without needing to translate everything lol

[mild hill]

pls make arrows 1 gold per 2 arrows

[delicate mica]

Please add some kind of matchmaking, gear score would work

Make leaderboards based off of something that doesnt require crazy grinding. Maybe like best 10 games or something like that

[soft acorn]

pls make arrows 20g per 10 arrows and bolts 30g per 10

[gentle rapids]

Arrow prices already make no fucking sense, in dnd it’s 10 for 1 gold DaD charges a gold a piece

[crimson nova]

whole point of a leaderboard is to grind? in literally every game?

[frosty agate]

Fix Lobby rigging based on classes going in.

[delicate mica]

That makes no sense lol I don't think the whole point of a leaderboard is to grind. It should be to show the best players, not just the ones that can play 24/7

[crimson nova]

what? the point of a leaderboard is to legit climb it and to stay on top maintaining your spot by getting more kills etc, actively getting more kills, more bosskills, and more escapes than others. It works like that in EVERY game that has a competitive leaderboard. in what world does ''play 10 games'' and a leaderboard based of such a small sample size make any sense?

[glad lotus]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489340/gathering

[delicate mica]

I didnt say play 10 games. I said it could be an average of your best 10 games. So those that can play a lot have more of an opportunity to get a better average score and those that cant play a ton have a shot of getting up. My main point is it would be nice if there was a way that people who cant play a bunch could stand a chance of ranking is all.

[outer radish]

Here is a glitch that I found, all you guys gotta do is make the second wall solid on both sides and its fixed so they can't see all of jungle gym; that's what I would do. <@&1019888848773328936> https://clipchamp.com/watch/ZVHxP1nJIbz

[glacial sphinx]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489343/make-one-of-the-two-skeleton-skins-armor-rating-and-magic-armor-rating

[low meadow]

lower rouge HP to 60

[blazing gyro]

Daily reminder to dumpster bard into oblivion and/or completely rework them. Most poorly implemented class, over-valued tooltips/durations on buffs/debuffs, extremely immersion breaking fruity and frilly music pieces picked by someone who did not take it seriously, and I could go on. Please change this. I swear the next wiz and bard handholding some frontliner as I hear shriek for the 50,000th time.. What a joke bard has made out of group play.

[vernal lotus]

How do you call a sound frilly?

[blazing gyro]

Choose the fruitiest pieces of the bard collection and play them on loop.. don't take them off loop... Take the former example... I want you to listen to Shriek 50 times in a row inside a dark and gritty fantasy maze.. and tell me that does not meet the criteria of frilly. It's like whoever designed bard didn't take it seriously at all. Bards are known for being goofy and having the flair of charisma/etc/etc.... but this version of the bard is a meme. By far the worst addition to this game in its current state.

[late dome]

Bro is scared of music💀

[cerulean pollen]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489353/critical-game-suggestions

thoughts?

[quaint sierra]

Make wizard skeleton not able to shoot fireballs through walls

[blazing gyro]

I kill bards first, anyways. I'm talking about this game actually caring about itself. The bard was made by somebody who didn't care enough. It's obvious from top down. The class has the most overtuned buff/debuff/duration kit making this barb/bard/wiz meta pretty solidified, due to buff stacking being so potent when they are uncapped afaik. Then you have the music itself, short spammable BADLY made music. There are like 1-2 acceptable pieces, but if we are playing music.. just actually have them play a song and not just a couple bars.. Just have them radiate a certain buff with the music playing passively after it's played or something.. but have the person who actually does the music be talented.

[low meadow]

lower rouge health to 60!

[late dome]

The music sounds fine you honestly just seem like you're reaching for random stuff to complain about.
"Make the music sound better" is an ass suggestion, and the buffs on bard arent even game breaking

[low meadow]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489364/lower-rouges-hp-to-60 Upvote pls

[atomic whale]

terrible title

[brisk storm]

unsure if this has come up, why can't fighters wear rubysilver caps? why are they limited to ranger and rogue. i understand fighters have access to the plate helmets, but what aboutt he slayer players they cant have the top of the line leather helms?

[stuck perch]

The bard was inspired from the CEO's days playing Everquest. Some tuning could have been made, but nerfing the shit out of it wasn't going to make it better.

[blazing gyro]

I think a rework is in order, at the very least. The whole spammable notion of 1-2 bars of... sound? Is probably not the way to go about it for one, but more-so the durations/tooltips were not considered wisely at all when implementing bard. It just has to be reeled back and reworked.

[blazing gyro]

If you don't think the buffstack+movement speed+debuffs with the tooltips and durations are balanced, then I would not insert yourself in this discussion. The devs know just as well as anyone that bard needs major tweaks. I never said, make "make the music better" was the point of my suggestion.. It's understanding what bard is doing to the game, along with classes like wiz and so forth. It is not balanced at all... and frankly, the environment of Dark and Darker was x100000 better before bard in current state. I am not the only one of this thought.

[stuck perch]

The spirit behind each song makes sense, the execution not always. The songs that are too strong need additional complexity added into playing them as opposed to just nerfing their power to the point where they become an after thought. This would make the bard into a more complex class with songs worth using if you can manage the complexity.
Also skipping notes as a mechanic should be removed, it throws the rest of the songs off balance.

[vernal lotus]

I just don’t understand how the music is frilly I can understand it being annoying hearing the same ballad over and over but what equates something to being frilly

[stuck perch]

But your mentality is reductive. You argument can be applied to every class in Dark and Darker, to the point where removing them all would leave us with the fighter as the generic class and nothing else.

[bright temple]

you guys think there should be a separate duos map made, and keep ruins trio?

[stuck perch]

What is specifically wrong with the tooltips aside from the song not matching the tool tip like a bunch of other spells and perks.

[blazing gyro]

? Not at all. It is about what is reasonable given the overall buffs within the game, whether there are caps or not, what else sources things like EHP/debuffs/etc. You have to take overall game state into account, instead of saying "that means throw everything out the window". What a terrible take honestly.

@vernal lotus I'm amused at this point by your focus on my use of the word and I'm sticking to it lol

[stuck perch]

Yes, Ruins belongs in the ruins>crypts>inferno map stack.

[bright temple]

[blazing gyro]

I will offer an example of musicians done well. Not saying this would be the way to implement it into the game, but take a look at Mount and Blade: Napoleonic Wars for instance... they played full duration songs, there were mechanics to allow the song to play while fighting, and so on. It was tastefully executed and added a ton of charm to the game. Short, spammable, lesser than quality 2-3 bars of "music" does not justify bard or how far it breaks the immersion of the game in current form.

That, on top of how unbalanced the tooltips/durations/etc are on key buffs that impact group-wide.. I think I don't need to point out which tooltips, because of how many times they've been stated this discord by others. Look at harmony, look at allegro, continue looking. These are ridiculous values in any game.

[stuck perch]

I am taking the over all game state into account. Did you take the possibility of dispelling the bard's buffs into account?

[blazing gyro]

I'd be fine with dispells and all the counterplays.. All that discussion is fine, once the class is in an acceptable state. There's not enough dispell sourcing or w/e... I mean tbh the best counter to a bard is a rogue just deleting them, but besides the point.. The class has to be redone.. not just tweaked or rebalanced.. the class has to be given a second pass.

Meanwhile, one of my duos is 60x chain wiping HR lobbies with a barb/bard/wiz comp and have several characters stashed full of cloaks/etc. You think that comp would do so if bard was in an acceptable state?

[crystal jungle]

What happened to the rusty key room?

[stuck perch]

Fine then instead of Harmony giving 50 armor, give 10% PDR and 10% MR, which amounts to roughly the same thing without putting the values on a curve. Would that be better?

[blazing gyro]

Honestly a needless question, since you pretty much stalemated your own question... but harmony probably just needs a duration nerf, but could also just be layered into another song to add a long song providing multiple buffs. I have no idea how they need to rework bard, but the way they implemented it now needs a full rework.. not just tweaking some spells and so forth.. they need to completely pass over the class again.

I will leave it to the devs to respect their own game. I can't tell you the exact way to rework bard, but in current form it is a joke.

[stuck perch]

Why give any of the songs a duration nerf? Do you know how ridiculously small 10% is? Look at 10% on a pie chart. It was only broken when stacked on to already tanky classes and even then that won't break the 85% reduction cap.

[blazing gyro]

You are looking at a single song and hyper-focusing on it. You are missing the point of the entire kit+the way the class plays being the issue.

Bard is not in a good or proper state. The devs know it. I know it. Others have said it. I will hope the devs respect their game. I'm going to go solo ruins for now.

[stuck perch]

You're dodging my point, I mentioned that song because you brought it up. I'd be happy to move on to other songs or aspects of bard.

[blazing gyro]

before I dip I'll just say this

[stuck perch]

The bard isn't in a proper state because there's a lack of reward for playing the songs through and not skipping notes, on top of a lack of complexity for a lot of the songs which then creates a lack of justification for his more powerful abilities. So they then get nerfed into uselessness.

Also there's not a single class I haven't heard players call OP or in a bad state. Of which people complain no more about bard.

[blazing gyro]

Go read allegro and accelerando. Note that the buffs stacks up to 3 times. Account for wiz buffs existing in the game at the same time. Note that harmony can be played and forgotten about. Note that rousing rhythms has a nearly riskless duration before engage. Note the debuff on shriek. I could go further into infinite spell regen and free spammable bandages, but that is not the larger issue. And to top all of it off, the music is short and spammed... Spammed, the same 2-3 bars of less than quality music. The entire thing is out of whack and it's obvious.

[stuck perch]

Accelerando stacking 3 times stacks up to 27 points of speed, a fine cuirass provides a -35 speed. Even with swift that's more than what Accelerando provides. WTF is OP with that?

[somber wind]

The spamming makes you the loudest thing in the dungeon, that IS a downside. Infinite Spell Regen is the fault of SP having no scaling and being 1:1 (Well not 100% it's Knowledge - 6) so +2 SP/tick is actually +14 SP/tick at base cleric which is not acceptable.

[stuck perch]

Being the loudest thing both makes your victims run away and draws your predators in or lets them prep ambushes.

[blazing gyro]

I'm fine with the bard being loud and so on.. but if we have to spam music... can we have songs? Like real songs that make you enjoy bard, even while not playing bard? I'm not talking about bard's risk involvement for playing music here.

[somber wind]

I think that Chorale of Clarity could easily be nerfed if they set it's attribute scaling to 0% and increased it's base from +2 back to +8 like it was before. That said they should just fix SP scaling since it's actually a problem at the high end ANYWAY (for anyone who knows how SP works which oddly isn't many).

[somber wind]

I'mma be honest I kinda like what we have when it comes to the songs but I wouldn't mind them being a little more technical sounding.

[blazing gyro]

The fact that you asked that tells me you're not thinking about the rest of the game. Did you remember wiz exists? Even fighter sprint exists.. Let's account for people who are not getting buffed now.. Let's put them up against a fully buffed barb with wiz/bard buffs. Do you think this is balanced at this point or do you think the uncapped potential in these buffs is fine?

[small furnace]

Gotta be real, bards are not all that much louder than clerics with their buffs. Doesn't feel like much of a downside, the 'WHOOOOSH' of cleric buffs is pretty dang loud and you can tell where it's coming from just as easily as bard buffs.

[stuck perch]

The songs need to be simple enough that players can recognize which one is being played and also short enough that a bard does more than just play a single song throughout.

[somber wind]

The difference is that frequency at which a bard must buff to maintain buffs where Cleric isn't always doing it. You almost always know where a Bard is compared to a Cleric.

[stuck perch]

They are, but the bard's song is loud for longer which lets players figure out where they are instead of just knowing one is nearby.

[blazing gyro]

I hope you get a bard in a group soon that just spams Shriek in between buffs for the entire game. I hope you have to endure this for 100 lobbies, then come tell me I love bard music.

[small furnace]

Well yeah but I'm just saying it's not much of a downside, if someone buffs up because they want to engage me I will hear them coming and run away regardless of whether bard or cleric.

@stuck perch Nah I disagree with that, I've always been able to tell where clerics are through their buffs. Audio queues in this game have been really good.

[somber wind]

Unless they're buffing up to just maintain buffs and don't know you're there which most bards do since being pre-buffed all the time is actually pretty useful for being ambushed.

It also basically deafens you to footsteps while you're playing a song.

[stuck perch]

I'd love it if one would do that, unless he has crazy scaling shriek is a dps loss compared to poking me with a rapier or falchion.

[blazing gyro]

You're right actually. Bard is the best class in this game and there is nothing OP or out of balance about it. The musicianship of bard is of such a quality that I expect to hear the full set of music played at my local operahouse within the month. I cannot actually imagine a single thing wrong with bard. Kudos to you, man.

[small furnace]

I do think Bard is probably going to end up on the chopping block if their balancing plans are to balance on the highest end of the game. Bard is good in 3s for normal people, and duos, but on the highest end of the game pentabuffing bards are an absolute menace and the strongest class in the game by far.

[stuck perch]

I'm not saying that the class is balanced on a pin. But instead of nerfing the raw power of the spells, they need to add downsides and complexity before a player can bring the full power of a song to bear.

[small furnace]

Just saying, maybe adding a buff-limit would be a good idea. Currently a bard can apply 5+ buffs to himself and then apply shriek of weakness to you which unless you're WAY more geared than that bard you are pretty much always going to lose and you can't run since he's much faster than you. (Assuming the bard is skilled enough to do all of this of course)

Would also help combat the buff-ball meta in higher tier play.

[blazing gyro]

I mean, the issue of having so many upsides and unlimited songs is part of the overall issue too. The EHP/movement speed/buffs/debuffs.. it's all way too much in metastack comps rn.

[somber wind]

Buff limits are genuinely the worst thing any game can do outright, it requires there to be a system for replacing buffs which means it either needs to replace oldest buff (which is horribly annoying to setup right) or have Buff "slots". This isn't the solution.

[stuck perch]

Adding a buff limit would just make the less meta buffs drop off and punish players who are want to play more than one class that provides buffs.

[blazing gyro]

I have just started only soloing/duoing mainly (unless with friends late night goofing around), because I got tired of feeling carried by comps.

[small furnace]

I'm open to other ideas but the buff-ball meta is kinda cancer, and you guys have said you don't want bard buffs to be weaker so yeah idk.

[blazing gyro]

A good bard IS that good. If they know when to fight and when to play, your group will very likely be the strongest in every lobby until you run into RMT/no-life central.

[stuck perch]

The answer to the buff ball, is dispel mechanics (right now we only have cleanse and most people don't use it that way) and better CC options of which we have few.

[somber wind]

I also agree, the problem is in the interaction between support classes. This is what needs to be looked at. I do not think that Bard is a problem in of itself, it is a product of the interaction between support classes specifically that makes it a problem. This was fixed quite alot with the original Cleric X Barbarian issue, early on they were WAY too good together but it was mostly fixed now (Barbarian still has some issues but that's not the topic and it's less Clerics fault now). The interaction needs to change.

[blazing gyro]

First thing is first, put movement speed caps on buffs. That is such an easy thing to do and easily adjusted.

Action speed and its sourcing also needs to be looked at.

[somber wind]

This will happen every time we get a support class and we have 2 more coming. Well kinda 1 and a half support classes (Artificer and Druid).

[stuck perch]

Or provide better movement speed slows and other CC that counters movement speed.

[small furnace]

I am assuming the classes that would get dispel mechanics are the same classes that are currently benefitting from this meta, maybe warlock too. I don't think pushing more meta mechanics onto the classes that are already the meta is the best idea.

@somber wind I understand the devs don't plan to balance off of solos but I do think bard is a problem in itself even if it's a rarity because of how difficult consistently pentabuffing is. The fact is a pentabuffed bard can outrun any class even a sprinting warrior and they have more survivability and damage than most classes (aside from maybe a geared fighter with really high PDR) I don't really think this should be doable, even if it does take a lot of skill. Speaking as someone who's been run down by one of these bards before.

[blazing gyro]

Please stop trying to keep the status quo and only thinking about group play... you have 3 mans 3v1ing essentially naked bambi solos with way overstacked buffs. You can't expect every player to have a kit to counterplay buffball alone.

[small furnace]

Devs have said that they plan to balance around 3s, whining about it isn't going to change anything. That's just currently the reality we live in.

[somber wind]

I get that it can seem unfair, I do think the HIGH END of Bard should be lowered similar to the high end of Wizard. Nerfing the class overall is not the solution just like nerfing Wizard overall is not the solution which is why they stepped away from the flat 50% reduction to attribute scaling earlier. It needs to be looked at on a per feature basis.

[blazing gyro]

And this I'm fine with, if they want to go that direction.. but the 3's need heavy balancing if that is the case.

Caps have to be implemented, durations and tooltips adjusted, and go from there... Hopefully do a full rework on bard.

[somber wind]

Bard does not need a full rework. There is integral issues with some of the things it interacts with that need reworking due to not having much interaction before the class.

[blazing gyro]

Yes, bard is amazing and the class as a design concept was executed masterfully. Dw I have already acknowledged this.

[small furnace]

I mean I guess in that case they could lower some buff durations to make pentabuffing impossible? Maybe enough so that they can only keep 3 active on themselves at once?

Cause really if a bard manages to keep his 5 buffs up at once you are basically not going to win unless you get him in a hunting trap or the dude makes an absolutely insane mistake. The counterplay to someone doing this shouldn't be: "Hope they make a mistake"

[somber wind]

An example is SP being 1:1 scaling which NOTHING should be like that.

[somber wind]

I think one of simple solutions would be to introduce dispels, have spell interuption (which would also affect songs), maybe make songs fail if you get hit by melee or a projectile.

[blazing gyro]

Aye, I've stated overall sourcing needs to be adjusted/looked at and not only bard. I will say though, that the second we introduce aoe dispells. Barb is a terrible class suddenly in 3v3.

[somber wind]

AoE Dispels should not exist. Single target dispels should and if anything it should be a skill or a buff for on hit.

[small furnace]

Both of you have said that but I really don't think dispels are the way to go. I already feel reliant on bards and clerics, anytime I wanna play ranger, fighter, rogue, or barb. I am assuming these classes would not have access to dispels and thus would have no way to deal with pentabuffing bards.

[blazing gyro]

But they do exist in the world the game is based on. Also, I am with Kira in believing that dispells are not the way to go here. Caps and adjustments are, overall sourcing, etc.

[somber wind]

I'm fine without dispels, how about the other solutions I mentioned?

[blazing gyro]

Not enough.

[somber wind]

In addition btw Dispels could be alot weaker than you're thinking like 1 cast removes 1 buff.

[small furnace]

I don't think that works, due to the duration they can pentabuff in another room before they come in, not having any risk of getting hit.

[somber wind]

Yes a prepared player should be stronger than an unprepared player. It's the rebuffing mid combat i'm thinking of.

[blazing gyro]

I'll admit I have bias against bard, because I can't stand the music except for a few pieces. It's just so so bad. But, I do think my overall reasoning has sense to it and I've said really all I can say without digging into specifics.. and at that point you'd want to know what the devs are thinking.

[small furnace]

If a bard pentabuffs and you KNOW he is pentabuffing and are prepared for him, you are still going to lose unless you somehow stop him from pentabuffing, but stopping him requires hitting him and if you KNOW he is in the room adjacent to you then you can't stop him from maintaining his pentabuffing before he gets it off due to how fast noteskipping works.

[somber wind]

How about this, because this can stop pentabuffing in short term and give more time for players to get to them. What if we had exhaustion, each song played produces exhaustion which naturally degenerates; you can get off a certain amount of songs before hitting max exhaustion. The goal of a bard would be to never fully fill it. When you get exhausted you cannot play music for let's say 20 seconds (could also degenerate faster if resting).

[small furnace]

That could be a good mechanic yeah, if they had some kind of invisible resource meter that they want to avoid filling up, could also work the other way around. They have a song-stamina meter that naturally regenerates over time and if they exhaust it they can't play anymore. Would give time for people to counterplay and make distance between a pentabuffed bard, try not to get caught before his buffs run out and he can't re-apply them.

[somber wind]

Thoughts on SP regen increasing the speed of losing exhaustion so things like Clarity potions would help Bard? It would also signal when they're exhausted more.

[small furnace]

Clarity potion should probably not help them, as it is designed specifically for spells. I'm going off the behavior of fighter's second wind here, since it regens from campfires but not clarity.

[somber wind]

Does it not, I was under the impression it does and just doesn't provide enough SP since it's a Tier 8 Spell?

[stuck perch]

Any class can get dispel mechanics although I don't think every class should have it. But wizard, cleric and warlock are obvious choices. Barbarian, Fighter and ranger could as well. There's even a justification for rogue to have one. They could even give us a utility item with dispeling mechanics.

[small furnace]

I'd have to test it but I do not think clarity regens fighter second wind, no. Only campfires.

[small furnace]

If they added a utility item that dispels like a dueling charm that you can purchase for like 15g or something one-time-use, I'd be 100% okay with that. If that's what access to a dispel constitutes then I am A-OK with it. I just don't want it being limited to magic classes which seems like the most likely scenario.

[somber wind]

Just checked, it does; it just doesn't provide anywhere near enough as it would require 48 seconds of Clarity Potion's buff to provide 1 Second Wind. So 6 Green Clarity Potions back to back.

[small furnace]

It does? Then yeah I'd probably be fine with it.

[stuck perch]

Barbarian has an anti-magic theme already, let him have a magic breaking blow as a skill. Fighter's break through should apply to all debuffs and CC on him not just slows.

[somber wind]

I honestly wouldn't be against Barbarian getting a Perk that would remove 1 buff on hit.

[small furnace]

As 'skills' makes it kinda hard, cause the skill economy for each class kinda sucks rn. Most classes have a 'necessary' skill and one or two choices of a skill that is also necessary. A perk on the other hand seems doable.

[stuck perch]

For the anti-magic item, I see it as a potion you can drink on a left-click to purge yourself or you could throw it with a right-click to purge the target hit from all buffs and debuffs.

[spare grotto]

Please remove Bard silence. This is so dumb

[somber wind]

I actually was thinking about buffs in general the other day @small furnace @stuck perch Thoughts on these being rollable modifiers/enchantments?

• Nullify <Debuff> X%; When the specifically rolled debuff is applied to you there is an X% chance to have it immediately fall off. Rolls 1-2%. Example: "Nullify Frostbite 1%" would provide a 1% chance upon Frostbite being applied to you for the debuff to immediately end.
• Replicate <Buff> X%; When taking damage from an opponent, you have an X% chance to gain a duplicate of their buffs (including how much time is left on the buff). Rolls 1-3%. Example: "Replicate Achillies Strike 3%" would provide a 3% chance upon taking damage gain the Achillies Strike buff if the enemy had it when they hit you.

[stuck perch]

If you have to choose between a skill like Achilles strike to keep rogues, rangers and wizards from kiting you, or an anti magic strike to counter buff balls, it's up to you to decide on what's more important.

[small furnace]

I generally think rng mechanics don't have a good place in this game given it's hardcore nature. For looting it's fine, but combat I don't think that's a good idea.

[stuck perch]

Where would you find that? On gear?

[somber wind]

To get those modifiers to good numbers you need specifically rolled gear on each.

@stuck perch Yes like +Weapon Damage or +All Stats.

[stuck perch]

I'd rather avoid mechanics of the sort on items asides from uniques and even then I don't think it's flavourful enough to be on a unique.

[somber wind]

I was trying to avoid them being heavily flavorful, it's a part of a list of generic modifiers I would hope to see.

[stuck perch]

Which of the two and why?

[small furnace]

I disagree entirely, if they add a third skill maybe, but the fact that most classes only get to choose 1 skill right now because the other is necessary to even play the class at most levels just means the skill economy in terms of resources is not good.

[stuck perch]

Then it's too random if the % is low, not to mention situational as it depends on your target having the buff/debuff. And too annoying if the % is high.

[somber wind]

Well the idea would be I'm balancing around what if someone had it rolled on every item they're wearing. It would be possible with it to reach 33% for Replicate for example.

[small furnace]

I'll say it again I do not feel this game's combat should host elements of randomness such as crits or % chance to x/y/z.

[earnest meadow]

agree

[somber wind]

Thoughts on this then, this is kind of off the topic but on the topic of modifiers;

• Retrieve <Thrown Weapon> X%; This provides a chance to NOT use up an item. Rolls a random Thrown Weapon and Rolls 1-2%. Example: If you have "Retrieve Explosive Bottle 1%" you have a 1% chance upon throwing an Explosive Bottle to keep it instead of it being used up.

[small furnace]

Those are still elements of randomness, I do not feel those have a place in this game.

[somber wind]

Yeah I mentioned it because it was random

[stuck perch]

That a class has skills that viewed as necessary to even play is an indication that that ability is not balanced compared to other choices. I'd understand if an ability is just popular but that it's required is quite the problem. That said, in my experience "required to play" is something that tends to matter only to players addicted to following a meta for a given game.

[somber wind]

^

[gilded silo]

a cleric has to be about the same distance to give buff as a bard and has a limited amount sooo...

[somber wind]

Self buffing and that's also not true, Cleric can buff across a room so it has more combat utility.

[small furnace]

I agree the abilities are not balanced, my perspective is that they will not be balanced moving forward, because I don't think the dev team has announced any plans to rework every classes ability's. That's why my perspective takes into account that abilities are not balanced and currently most classes have a 'required' ability.

[untold linden]

Is the gear diff issue EVER going to be addressed? Getting sick of rubysilver/cobalt full purple gear trios in normal lobbies when im not even lvl 15

[stuck perch]

I try to move around to different skills on each class and only very few classes do I feel requires a given ability or rather requires an ability because the others aren't that great.

[gilded silo]

plz tell me how a cleric can give buffs through walls

[spare grotto]

Song of Silence is a 6 sec silence that can be played with just 4 notes with no cd. It completely counters the use of 3 classes in the game.

[stuck perch]

This is my answer to that
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment544273

[somber wind]

plz tell me how bard can support with buffs in a wide open area in ruins

[somber wind]

They've specifically said before that they aren't focusing on balance too heavily CURRENTLY but they've just started from what it looks like focusing on balancing so we'll likely see some changes.

[lusty crystal]

Nerf horsemans speed or Achilles its way too strong for how cheap it is

[gilded silo]

by staying the same distance that a cleric can give buffs?? your point kinda proves how bards should be nerfed

[somber wind]

You mean the distance that you are actually in combat in? Because Cleric doesn't need to enter combat on ruins and can far support. I would know, I've done it. I play both classes.

[small furnace]

If they start buffing all the underused skills on classes then I will agree with you, but as it stands I don't think they're going to do that.

Ranger being able to quickly shoot as many arrows as they want is really cool, but the buff doesn't last long enough for them to get off more than 3 shots... meanwhile triple shot just exists so it's like... yeah.

Abilities like this, if they start buffing them then I will agree with you.

@somber wind I understand but I'm a very pragmatic and practical individual. I try not to look at things from a 'best case scenario' outlook and rather instead look at it from a 'it is what it is' point of view. IF they make it so classes can actually choose their abilities and have meaningful choices then I will agree for sure.

[vernal lotus]

It’s just when I think of frill it’s a physical adjective like when someone describes a dress I can think of a frilly dress but frilly music? I just idk I can’t picture it I don’t know what that would sound like

[somber wind]

No and I agree with you, I'm just noting that they intend to change things and it wasn't until recently that they have started doing actual balance passes. It looks like they're doing them on a per class basis and not all at once however which is making them a little lopsided. That said I do not believe they will buff everything up and instead nerf everything down based on what they've shown before.

[gilded silo]

if clerics would get the wizard treatment (getting a skill to gain spells faster) than maybe just maybe they'd be "in balance" compared to the bards support in teams.

[somber wind]

Just get more SP, SP is completely broken right now; I never run out of spells on Cleric since I focus SP. You don't even need a bard for that.

[stuck perch]

It also has a ridiculously short range and requires you to be in range at the exact time it ends. I'd rather see it changed so it's a channeled song (the tooltip says it's supposed to self-silence anyways) and remove the ability to shorten it by note skipping. Also remove the ability to have silence prevent the use of skills that don't depend on sound or casting.

[small furnace]

I certainly hope they buff up the underused abilities. Some of these abilities look REALLY cool to use if only they were just a little bit better.

As for balancing per class yes it's incredibly difficult, because depending on how much you play, which classes you play, and what level you play at you're going to think different things are OP.

New players tend to think that fighter and ranger are OP because phys damage reduction, damage, and range are all difficult to play at on a base level.

People who play more squishy backlining classes think that rogue is OP because they can burst you down if they catch you off-guard from behind.

People who play at the top level of the game think that Wizard and Bard are OP because magic resist is in short supply, and they don't have the gear to build against it.

So it's tough for them to take everybody's opinions in and filter them to get what they want.

[gray belfry]

Someone mighta said something like this. but what about reverse portals? that summon The Demon warrior. maybe 3 black ones

[stuck perch]

I'd also increase the range of all lute spells, but that's just me.

[vernal lotus]

I mean the training/leveling system is still being developed I think it’s kinda hard to balance things until all power scaling content is out in the open for testing. I think we just have to live with imbalances while the game is still early access like this

[somber wind]

• SP Recharge Cost = 100 * Tier (For example, Zap is a Tier 1 spell, and as such costs 100 SP to restore each cast. Fireball is a Tier 5 and costs 500 SP per cast.)
• SP Recharge per tick (SP/tick) = Base Recharge + Spell Capacity (Spell Capacity is Knowledge - 6)
• Sitting Recovers base 8 SP per tick which increased by base Cleric Knowledge is 20 SP per tick.

If you focus Knowledge and Spell Capacity rolls you can easily get to Meditation's SP since it's just 34.

There is 3 modifiers for Spell Capacity:

• Spell Capacity Add
• Spell Capacity Bonus
• Knowledge

it is very easy to stack.

[stuck perch]

They should listen to everyone's opinions, but they can't just take all our opinions and cram it into the game. Some of those opinions contradict each other and something like this just results in a game that has no core concept holding it together.

[small furnace]

That's true, but some things DO need to balanced asap because they're so ridiculous to play against with no counterplay... like bard's din of darkness... thank god that got nerfed. Taking 20 magic damage from the next room over without even seeing my enemy was god awful.

[glad lotus]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489340/gathering

[stuck perch]

I've never had any issues with Din of darkness. I hear someone cast it, I move away from the sound and I usually make it out alright. The parts where I had team mates die to it, is when they hide behind the door thinking the bard will move on or enter the room after he's done the song. No he won't, he can hear it hit something so he's just going to keep casting it until he doesn't anymore.

I can say the same thing about hearing a warlock cast hellfire and think that if we don't move he's just going to miss with it. It's silly.

[small furnace]

The edge cases were the problem. For instance the worm room in ruins, if you are down there fighting the room and a din of darkness bard with +10 magic damage comes across you, you are basically instantly dead. It would tick for 15 each time by the time you realize what's going on it's too late you die to something you don't see.

The devs agree because they nerfed the scaling of that spell as well. Even if it only happened once in a blue moon, dying to something you can't see so quickly was just not acceptable.

[stuck perch]

You have more than just your sight to inform you in game. You shouldn't require a visual queue for everything. That said, I think nerfing +flat damage to Din of darkness is fine. It should be treated like other dots for scaling, maybe a bit less to account for it's aoe affect.

Din of darkness is one of the reasons why I'd like song of silence to have a longer range. I find it would counter Din quite well.

[small furnace]

I mean it happened, they gutted it. Thank god they did: from 10%/30%/50% to 6%/9%/12%.

They knew it was a problem because there simply was not enough counterplay for a bard creating a AoE pulse aura that would kill people in 5-6 hits.

[dense sand]

tbh they need to replace one of the dmg aoe spells with a single target direct damage spell like Vicious Mockey or something

[stuck perch]

I know they did, but they shouldn't gut it down that much. I'd much rather see counter play options added than just nerfing something because it's strong.

[stuck perch]

That's what shrill was supposed to be but it ended up being another AoE, not that I mind.

[dense sand]

too stronk to have 2 aoe dmgs imo, super cheese with good movespeed/naked you can cause crazy issues with no gear

[stuck perch]

Nerfing something because it doesn't have enough counter play is not the right answer. The right answer is to add counter play.

[dense sand]

replace one with a DD song and it would be more balanced

[granite plinth]

Problem is not only that it’s strong, it’s stupid

[small furnace]

Maybe in the future, but my current attitude is influenced by how the devs work right now. I'm not gonna be a blind optimist n all.

[stuck perch]

Aside from it's strength, why is it stupid? And if you say it's because it can hit through walls, I'll say get over it. All of bard's spells hit through walls. It's part of what makes the class unique and solves the problem of people turtling up in a room.

[dense sand]

yeah, there are better simpler solutions to balance something that strong in the kit and thats to tweak it and make it in line with other classes

[stuck perch]

Or if the ability is fun, bring the other classes up to it's level instead of nerfing everything into the mud.

[dense sand]

none of the damage dealing songs are skill shots they are braindead AOE with great up time

[mortal swallow]

game needs wipe with all stat nerf, rediculous gear gap

[dense sand]

doesnt need to be nerfed into the mud, just needs to be changed to a strong single target DD song

[small furnace]

I think that they should just make it so pre-existing gear with overtuned stats reverts to the highest possible when they nerf it... Example: All +3s should've become +1s after the nerf.

[dense sand]

changing doesn't mean gutting everything into uselessness

[granite plinth]

An undodgable spell hitting througth walls must indeed be weak in damages

[dense sand]

agreed lol pretty crazy

[granite plinth]

Not to mention it crushes any rogues sneaking gameplay

[blazing gyro]

See. You all scare me that you all want to rework bard AS IS. The fact people aren't talking about altering/reworking the class and we are focused on keeping the entire concept... is very disheartening to say the least. If the class stays as is and is only tweaked, then it's a terrible addition to the game. The game WAS better before bard.

[small furnace]

I don't see an issue with bard as a class concept, assuming the concept is: "They have generally weaker heals and buffs than cleric, but they get unlimited uses so that makes up for it." Currently though I don't feel like that's the case, hence why they need adjustments.

[granite plinth]

I agree that the bard could be a really interesting class in the game ! The actual version is completely braindead and that’s such a waste

[blazing gyro]

If you are boiling down to that being the concept, then of course the concept is fine. I mean how the bard was executed was EXTREMELY POORLY DONE. They need to pass over it again.

[dense sand]

you can tweak things to make it work, idk why everyone thinks of all changes as extreme or not extreme enough, the class doesn't need to be completely redone lol just change how some of the songs function and make it more skill based instead of braindead AOE spam

[stuck perch]

Undodgeable? Just walk out of it's range. If the bard is hitting you through the wall, he can't chase you through walls.

[blazing gyro]

Unless somebody is clinically insane.. You will admit that the atmosphere and the way the game played before bard was for sure better. Sure, there have been necessary adjustments and so on that improved the game during that time, but bard has degraded it.

[dense sand]

if hes underneath you or if you arent a rogue or fighter on sprint, the bard can always hit you and outrun you with minimal gear investment

[small furnace]

Ghost you're missing the point. A LARGE portion of the combat gameplay of this game is holding an angle until you can get a good fight. You can't hold that angle if a bard is sitting on the other side of a wall patting his drum gently doing so much damage to you. You have to give up that angle and then the rest of his party can rush you, din of darkness doing as much damage as it did made it impossible for you to hold any angle and you just had to permanently flee.

[granite plinth]

I meant it’s an AEO, sometimes you can run out of range, but if not it hits 100% of the time where pretty much every abilities can be missed/dodged. And ofc it hits upstairs and downstairs

[dense sand]

if you look at the bards kit in totality, and cant see objectively that its too strong for not requiring any skill shots/aiming and is just aoe+right clicking, idk what to tell you, even top bards admit its overtuned

[stuck perch]

You assume you've got no choice but to run down a straight corridor with the bard being underneath you in a matching corridor. You never see places like that in the maps, each floor is different than the one above or below it.

[small furnace]

Bard is the second hardest class in the game to play effectively, what are you on about? I admit they are certainly overtuned as is but you shouldn't just say they required no skill.

[granite plinth]

I suggest making this game good

[blazing gyro]

The way I would rework bard is to add multiple buffs to certain songs.. have them played and essentially become a refreshable passive, based on the song they last chose to play.. This would not only make bard more bearable/less spammy with the same 2-4 bars of music, but it would likely offer a lot of toning down on pentabuffing/etc. I would also make bard more of a battle bard than a pure musician, which is already possible sure... but make the class play more fluidly and less jank/unnecessary spam. It is gutting to the atmosphere of the game to have some bard SPAMMING shreik in the middle of a dark fantasy maze with bodies piled on top of eachother. It is SO fruity and lame.

[errant sigil]

yeah id prefer them to just lower all stats across the board. Legendaries should have 5% increased in leverage with a cool ability that creates unique game play. But gear in games like these should never have a 50%+100% leap in dif

[granite plinth]

Just take out speed buff and aoe damage. Or buff aoe damage but with a cool down

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree!

[granite plinth]

Just give certain songs cool downs like in everquest so they can’t be spammed. Fixed

[small furnace]

Why is the bot telling you not to spam @somber wind

[dense sand]

little skill, no gear required to outplay and cheese players

[somber wind]

Because of the dude from earlier talking about Cleric spell regen not being enough I decided to look at what the ABSOLUTE maximum would be for SP regen on Cleric: https://pastebin.com/HDh6nn9w

Had to put it on pastebin since it hates numbers lol

[dense sand]

nice

[granite plinth]

@dense sand you’re an idiot. It’s a high skill class but the songs need to be changed

[stuck perch]

The idea of turtling is bad if you don't have ways to break it like the bard. I'm not saying turtling should never be a thing, but there are times when the situation is not going to improve with you sitting there. You either need to push or back up and take a different route.

[blazing gyro]

Bard requires knowing the mechanics of the class and essentially you can just macro it if you really wanted to. I wouldn't say that requires as much skill as a fighter 1v3ing in open field.

[errant sigil]

still pushing this amazing concept keep it up bro!

[granite plinth]

What a nice idea !

[dense sand]

you can turtle with bard, many teams do it v well idk wtf you are saying, have you not been playing this EA?

[blazing gyro]

+1'd

[granite plinth]

@dense sand confirmed skill issue boi

[stuck perch]

Honestly I'd see this problem fix itself if we had flat magical damage reduction as a stat.

[small furnace]

Din of darkness spam through walls did not require much skill just high gear yes, but they already nerfed that to the point where it's manageable. The CURRENT problem with bard which is the ability to pentabuff and become the strongest class in the game is NOT something that requires little skill, it requires a hell of a lot to consistently keep those buffs up. It's still a problem yes but to say it requires 'little skill' to play bard is definitely a misunderstanding of the situation.

[unique locust]

thank you sir! mods gave me a warning for posting the link in general so make sure to go spread the word

[dense sand]

lol naw I win I got a bard in my crew 😉

[errant sigil]

this is all over taken by macros and scripts which alot of these 3's players are using all the time as they are constantly casting them at the end of their cycl

[stuck perch]

And if he or his buff totem gets hit with cleans, he's underpowered until he can get those buffs back up and properly timed you can kill him or his buff totem during that window.

[granite plinth]

So you admit you’ve never played a bard but call it low skill okay

[small furnace]

That is literally cheating, macros and scripts are not allowed and if people are using them then yeah ofc it's low-skill but it's also bannable.

[blazing gyro]

bard is arthritis level mundane repitition gaming tbh.

[dense sand]

just calling apples apples bb bois if you can't admit bards doing too much of everything a little too well, idk what to tell you ❤️

[granite plinth]

So the spell becomes useless ? Why not just rework it so ?

[blazing gyro]

like who wants to constantly be clicking right mouse button to play a song. That alone was just... like why? There's so much about bard that is needless or overtuned or just poorly implemented.

[stuck perch]

No, if a player has so much +flat magic damage reduction, then they're lacking in other stuff. You can't have a counter to everything on every class. Sometimes you just got to take your loss.

[granite plinth]

True, and it’s better if skill is needed

The weaken song should be pve only and the silence song should be removed. That’ll help the ttk murder ball get nerfed

[stuck perch]

But you can't just require skill. or the game just won't be balanced until every class is bland.

[granite plinth]

You can add in input to play song to avoid this problem

[vernal lotus]

Make bard voip required with rock band vocal mechanics

[stuck perch]

The silence song is not part of the murderball comp and if anything it can actually counter said murder ball. Weaken is fine on it's own, people just need to learn how to dodge and block rather than face tank everything.

[granite plinth]

@stuck perch weaken sing is literally a 2 second cast when you can ignore the first note

[stuck perch]

Actually the weaken song helps counter other hard comps immensely.

[stuck perch]

Then remove the ability to ignore the first note. I've always said that note skipping was dumb and causes more problems than anything it provides.

[granite plinth]

Weaken makes everyone 1 to 2 shot regardless of gear. The more stats the bard has the more it debuffs

[stuck perch]

None of the bard's stats affect the debuff song.

[granite plinth]

If note cancelling was skilled, (with à perfect timing) it could be really cool mechanic I believe !

[stuck perch]

Then you're lowering the cast time of all of the bard songs by at least 1s if not more. This causes massive problems to balance and more of the bard's power budget has to go towards justifying the possibility of bards doing so.

[granite plinth]

The only thing they can do is nerf the overall buffs of the songs or lower the buff durations

[granite plinth]

To me, if bard songs were harder to play, it wouldn’t be a problem that the effect were strong, if for example the note line were changing everytime or so, I think the problem here is the ultra easy brainless spam of all his spells

[granite plinth]

If they made it difficult like that then only prebuff before engaging and then it’s just a melee fight

[granite plinth]

Isn’t this the case ? But with really easy spammable songs ?

I personally spam weaken and silence when in fights because most trips run a cleric a bard or wizard or a mix of all 3

I rarely melee in a trio fight, it’s about spamming and making sure those two songs are constantly landing to shut the other team down. If it’s 3 rangers we just don’t engage because that’s cancer

[granite plinth]

It wouldn’t change your gameplan, it would just be less easy to put out, I think it makes sense, because actualy there is no way to distinguish a good bard from a bad bard

[violet sail]

i mean there is, like with any class but the skill floor is just wide asf

[placid summit]

nerf rogue

[upper hearth]

They should match the animation speed of viking axe to the viking sword and decrease the viking swords damage

[violet sail]

decrease viking axe's dmg but give armor pen %

[upper hearth]

Good point, the damage increase didn't mean anything cause it was still almost 1.5 times slower in swing

[wintry fog]

fix the NPC's for gods sake lmao

[arctic cove]

spectator voip https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489432/spectator-voip

[leaden grail]

THEY SHOULD HAVE A 1-4 PVE GAMEMODE EVEN IF ITS LOW GREADE STUFF UPVOTE IF YOU AGREE

[blazing gyro]

Do not nerf rogue. It is the only reason I am enjoying solo play and making support players hate their lives. ty

And rangers need the reality check. Let's be real.

[wide lagoon]

lol cant even get close with fist to buffed bard with shortbow nice balancing. thats it im quitting this game

[stuck perch]

There's plenty of ways to make it harder like adding different notes (the notes going up or down) or needing to recast and maintain the song several times before you reach it's max efficiency. Even requiring that the song be channeled (examples of channeled songs are Din of Darkness, Chaotic Discord, Song of Peace) counts as additional complexity. Not every song needs the same complexity mechanic but having a nice spread helps especially for songs that are more powerful.

[rapid tendon]

barbarian damage is literally too high.... makes no sense that they can 2 shot people with a grean weapon while having the most health too

[stuck perch]

They also have the least amount of speed, making them the easiest to hit, CC, to block and dodge. They also have very low PDR compared to other non-squishy characters.

[rapid tendon]

Cleric is definitely way slower than barbarian

and they easily become the most busted class in 3 mans with a bard

[fast lily]

Make it so magic staves can be used to parry. Parry is one of the coolest mechanics and seeing it on more weapons would be fun, especially on a magic weapon that's more niche than others and fits that 'slow' catagory of weapon you'd see parrying on.

[drowsy grotto]

I feel like people who complain about ranger are the same people who care more about loot then survivability, if rangers are primarily effective long-range then wouldn't you just avoid that situation? (idk)

[rapid tendon]

I think its just because of how oppressive rangers can be in some modules

plus i think ranger players tend to fuck with people the most because they can do it from range with safety. such as if youre mining in the goblin caves and theres a ranger in the rafters getting free shots at you while you try to snake your way up to them

[drowsy grotto]

I guess but still, there isn't really a map where you're forced to fight against rangers minus the 3v3 map.
Like dead-ends and such.

[chilly adder]

day 3 of requesting a trade channel on discordddddddd for the best class in the game: trader c:

[fast lily]

You can't avoid long range situations, and rangers have great melee options, too.

[rapid tendon]

false bottom left corner of goblin cave high rollers is an absolute nightmare to vs rangers in

[drowsy grotto]

Break line of sight?

[fast lily]

That's like saying 'just kill them' or 'just avoid PvPers'.

You can but it's normally not, like, possible to do so meaningfully.

[drowsy grotto]

I mean kinda, just kill them probably means just try to force short-range situations by running away and camping corners or getting into a better area for circle which forces them to push you and there isn't any harm is avoiding pvp.

[stuck perch]

I wish people would understand that. There's no harm in avoiding a fight you can't take.

[drowsy grotto]

Yeah I just looked at a map, doesn't sound fun.

But still 1/1,000 different possible scenarios isn't the worst thing in the world.

[stuck perch]

Then don't go there or at least get out before you get cornered there by a ranger.

[drowsy grotto]

Eh, it's one of the most consistant mining spots + if you spawn in the middle door they can rush you from the two outer ones.

[stuck perch]

I mean by all means take advantage of it, but don't complain when you know it's a shitty spot to defend against a particular class when that class pushes you there.

[granite plinth]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489361/non-high-roller-queues

[late star]

Fix Bard Songs please. it cant be that a bard can do damage to you 1 floor below or above you not even seeing you. Is the most OP shit ever. Also he can spam it? and counts as MAGIC DAMAGE

[rapid tendon]

Yeah this game really needs a magic defense potion of some kind. maybe make them a bit more rare. But doesnt seem to make sense for there to be a potion for physical damage and not magical damage, when magic defense is already harder to come by

[granite plinth]

Just give resists on gear like Diablo. But have it work so you can pick between dark fire ice or lightning to resist

It’s a dead game anyways so who cares

[orchid kestrel]

please remove the LFG channels in discord. They break the in game gathering hall which no one uses, and that is forcing everyone into this discord LFG and its pointless. People who dont know sit in the game halls and get nowhere. This is not fun, its broken.

Either remove LFG channels in discord, or remove the gathering hall in game. I prefer removing discord as i am being forced into an external app instead of the game,

[turbid hamlet]

Skill issue

[orchid kestrel]

this reply is a small brain issue

[turbid hamlet]

Yeah just had to pretend I was you when I typed it, discord just works way better because you have to use voice chat anyhow generally lmao

[orchid kestrel]

skill issue

[turbid hamlet]

True

[orchid kestrel]

i also miss working voice in game. please fix 😄

[turbid hamlet]

It works ???

[orchid kestrel]

not for everyone. For some teams, one persons mic controls everyone else and all the others ar unable to be heard

[vivid warren]

we need balanced lobbies, i dont like going in naked vs 50 pot barbs

[granite plinth]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489361/non-high-roller-queues It's driving the player base down.

[young basalt]

whens the cleric nerf coming its insane to dump arrows in to people and the cleric heal them faster than you can damage

[eternal nebula]

What if we nerf barbs speed a little and have a nice big nerf to the damage as well as removing the speed buff from rage. But also what if we replaced archers triple shot with a bit slowed down double shot along with increasing the speed penalty while also decreasing the damage of longbow. But what if we also nerfed the damage scaling of higher tier daggers and changed rogues invisibility time to only 20 seconds. But what if we also did a nice heavy damage nerf on blow of corruption while also making it so you have to have a magic casting item out before using it and switching to your main weapon. But what if we also nerfed clerics self healing and nerf all buffs implied onto themselves while also removing or hard nerfing that one damage dealing blind spell. I think that's about it

Idk what to do about wizard the only huge problem with it seems to be fireball

[vivid warren]

and spawn room bottom right on goblin caves.... bruh, a shaman and a slinger goblen is a bit much i think... rougs with that spawn suckkkkkk lol

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree

[lament sequoia]

Here my suggestion put cooldowns on bard or set amount of songs to play ? Like hello the class is a load of crap.. play music to get buffs.... okay that makes sense

[sacred basin]

Recommendation: Add a perk for Ranger that allows them to silently place traps

[knotty berry]

fix the fighter fast block mechanic already. currently when we block SOMETIMES our next action is 50% faster, but often times it's just the block and not the attack pressed immediately after. Either make it always the block or the weapon swing. It's one of the best perks sometimes and other times the worst.

[vernal ice]

My thoughts is one song from each instrument gives a buff at a time so you don't have 15 buffs going, and they actually have to pick and choose a bit more than just play long buffs then spam short buffs. Then run at people with a busted falcion. Thoughts?

[dense thunder]

Day 1 one of asking the devs for gnome and halfling races

[haughty helm]

its not really outkited but still i was being healed 3-4 different ways and still took so much dps at a time while being fully geared form a gray rouge but like still nothing i can do about it now

[arctic vault]

Small suggestion, add damage numbers in game like when you hit the dummy, or stats when you die that show how much damage you dealt + taken

[sleek carbon]

Gray crystal sword as starting weaponf or warlock. He is the magic melee combination and should be represented by such.

[knotty berry]

I think these damage numbers would help a lot with confirming whether head shots really are always head shots

[ancient sequoia]

Rebalance Achilles strike. Should be a once or twice per raid perk. No way it's fair. Barb lands one Francisca axe or one axe and what? Walk, you die. Freeze, they headshot you with the ten perks that make headshot axe damage +300% dmg. If you counter with a shield they hit your toe and you still take the effect. If you counter with distance they hold you against the zone and it's impossible to push without guaranteed death. 60% of my pvp deaths are Achilles strike, and 90% of my pvp deaths against barbs are Achilles strike. Rebalance

[small furnace]

Doubt people will go for that since this is supposed to be hardcore. A death recap showing how much damage you took and from what would be good though. Gives us a better idea and a chance to learn from our deaths.

[orchid patrol]

FACTS. And any decent Rogue can just kite you and do poke damage till you die while you can never even swing a two handed weapon fast enough to hit them.

[icy panther]

2 things I gotta ask now

1. What weapon were you using?
2. If it's not being out-kited, does that mean you managed to hit him?

[icy panther]

Or just piss more people off. Double-edged sword.

[small furnace]

I mean if it pisses you off then at least you know what to be pissed off about. Like if someone sees their death recap says they took 100 damage from 2 flanged mace headshots then they might know they need to bob their head next time to avoid getting 2 tapped.

[rapid tendon]

This game really needs to monitor other people giving streamers free items/gear. That should straight up be against game rules

Easy to topple lobbies and the leaderboard when they are getting stuff for free from other players

[icy panther]

Yeah, but my problem as it stands right now is that people die to literally anything then cry foul, a death recap at this point will just further the bitching about things when people don't even understand how half the shit works in the first place.
I'm not saying no death recap, to be clear, just wait for everyone to settle down first.
@rapid tendon Agreed, no freebies for being 'famous'

[small furnace]

I mean sure, but it's kind of a weak argument to say: "People will get upset at what they see, so we should gatekeep the information from them so they don't get upset."

[calm prairie]

people will whine about dumb shit whether you give them proper info or not

[icy panther]

But that's not the argument, the argument is that "people don't understand whats going on already, giving them more information they won't know what to do with will just exacerbate it"

[small furnace]

Yes, I was being uncharitable but you just rephrased what I said. I think that's a very weak argument.

[knotty berry]

we absolutely should know our damage numbers, it would help immensely

[calm prairie]

i have to do math to figure out my achilles strike dmg bc the dummy doesnt move

[icy panther]

yeah this one is fair, a lot of shit is hidden completely for no reason, a death recap shouldn't be the first bit of information for stuff like this, but it'll help.

[tough granite]

add duo crypt

[small furnace]

I suggested a death recap because it's less intrusive than damage numbers which I feel might be a bit meta for a hardcore game like this.

[arctic vault]

Exactly what I was thinking! I’m ok with no damage numbers but a summary of your life would be cool, maybe even later an implementation of potential accolades where you can earn titles based on how much you walk or how much damage you’ve dealt to monsters etc

[icy panther]

In this case I mean more akin to things like how half the spells in the game don't tell you their damage, or how traps don't tell you the damage they deal either.

[haughty helm]

i was using spellbook longsword.

also he was js full running it down on me while i had fists out but i was getting healed by PoS CoP and a heal pot at the same time

[icy panther]

By any chance did he have backstab

[haughty helm]

all blue to purple range of gear against a gray rouge.

also no he was running stealth pickpocket lockpick and the quieter perk

[icy panther]

Last question I can ask is how long it took him to kill you, maybe Agony ran out so torture mastery wasn't giving anything?

[haughty helm]

nah i had just started it so it wouldnt've run out. but i would say the fight went on for like 4-5 seconds cause i only got 1 longsword hit in after pulling it out

[icy panther]

Yeah I got no answer to it then, you should be outhealing a grey rapier with +11 Mhealing and 2 dots

That's what, 24 HP/s? No way a rogue without the right perks can deal that much damage with just the rapier poke while running after you.

[neon zodiac]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489496/ruins-player-count

[stuck perch]

If the problem is that everyone is dealing too much damage, wouldn't it be simpler to just increase the base health people have?

[eternal nebula]

Could work. they'de have to increase pve damage though

[solemn needle]

A good suggestion:
Take action agains players that get together BEFORE the match and clean the lobby on goblin caves. I just saw how a purple geared barbarian helped a naked rogue and they killed the entire lobby. I reported them both but as always no actions will be taken

[stuck perch]

That's an easier fix than tweaking the damages for classes forever and getting everyon pissed individually.

[eternal nebula]

Yeah well getting people pissed doesn't really matter since people on this game get pissed over everything

[stuck perch]

How do you know they didn't meet in the dungeon and decide to take the rest of the map on?

[stuck perch]

True. But nerfing everything isn't the answer either. Yet that's all people call for.

[solemn needle]

the feed

[solemn needle]

The feed was player1 killed X Player2 killed Y

[eternal nebula]

Unrelated note I just had a goblin start walking tilted 45 degrees backward

[icy panther]

Anything that kills me needs a nerf.

[eternal nebula]

He was chasing me on the back of his feet

[stuck perch]

Maybe, they met 30s in and decided to take everyone else on. If that's the case, it's completely legal.

[tall mist]

Fr tho why is there no restrictions on gear in low roller. I can’t imagine a casual player getting into this game after getting wiped by purples constantly shit is insane (assuming they even get past the pve aspects of the game)

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree

[stuck perch]

The game is marketed as a hardcore game. I've got ideas to reduce the frequency of that sort of thing but it's shouldn't just be removed.

[outer brook]

Revert the Stealth breaking on contact! It is impossible to pickpocket now!

[tall mist]

I think you should be able to bring a certain amount of gear in. 1-2 blues or 3-4 greens or potentially a gear rating system. It is insanely unfun to go against purples in normal mode every game (as a non casual player)
They could even add a new crypts queue called low roller with reduced chances of high tier loot, with the trade off that it has the restriction. Just to give people a way to level with less chance of getting stomped

[stuck perch]

The problem is it happening every game, not that it happens occasionally.

[abstract swallow]

Gear caps just give bad people (me) the ability to targeted farm new/basic players

[tall mist]

How so

[solemn needle]

totally geared barbarian and a naked rogue? doubt

[stuck perch]

Because we'd know exactly how much gear to bring to hit the bracket where everyone else is just fodder yet we have the advantage of gear + skill which while not good, they're definitely better than people who are just starting.

[abstract swallow]

If you make rules on gear, the pub stompers just abuse those rules (against lobbies full of weak players, with 0 risk of meeting more geared players)
Limit it to greens? Enjoy being in an all damage stacked wizard/ranger's montage video
Limit it to shop whites? Congratulations, now every class with flat damage cooldowns can onetap the entire lobby and it's impossible to burst through healing.

[stuck perch]

With everything being random I have to contend with a larger range of players.

[icy panther]

Warlock limited to white/gray would be fucking awful, genuinely the best killing machine in that case.

[abstract swallow]

I hope you like lobbies purely made of warlock/warlock/bard just blitzing straight at you and dropping bardiche BoCs at +28% action speed and +6 Will/+3 Strength
Because that's what all these noobs keep begging for

[tall mist]

I see what you guys are saying, but I think personally I would assume new players would rather lose to pub stompers that are going in just to farm them (for again very reduced loot) in a skill diff than a gear diff. Like dying because the ranger hit all 6 shots it took to kill you because he’s good versus dying in one triple shot because his bow is good

[stuck perch]

Maybe reducing the currently available pool of gear to blue and below until a more challenging mapstack can be released with better rewards, followed by reducing the number of players per map so we're not stumbling over each other. 5x5 maps should be 16 players and 3x3 maps should be 8 players as they were originall intended to.

[icy panther]

Don't even need that much, a white staff will oneshot to the head with boc almost every class in the game

[abstract swallow]

Yeah, no argument that gear scaling and stat stacking needs work
But you gotta fix the problem at its source, gearcaps are just a bad band aid

[granite plinth]

rangers just need to have their slow removed, or atleast you have to ACTUALLY shoot them in the leg or foot for the slow to actually proc, it’s almost like there’s a perk for that

[short heath]

At least someone knows what skill vs gear diff is. Jesus christ, this guy gets it in less than a day and you two are 3 weeks into this debate not realizing how wrong you are yet @stuck perch @abstract swallow

[tall mist]

I’m not new I’m just venting because I’ve been getting gear diffed

[turbid hamlet]

Then swap class, you can kill groups w keying easily that out gear you

So many overconfident w keys are easy to abuse in 3’s

[stuck perch]

As frustrating as it can be there are videos out there of people in bad gear beating people fully geared. So while difficult it's not impossible.

[tall mist]

Bro have you played in your region with low player count (like middle of the night)

[stuck perch]

Yeah I did so frequently over the last couple weeks.

[tall mist]

Losing to bard cleric fighter is pissing me off because that’s all i see and they always have a full blue-purple kit

[turbid hamlet]

Depends what you play

[stuck perch]

What do you play that has trouble vs those two?

[tall mist]

I play mostly ranger in teams but I’ve played most of the classes

[turbid hamlet]

Well you do well against that

[stuck perch]

Do you take the ranger skill that pierces armor?

[tall mist]

No tf

[turbid hamlet]

You just camp a door way and poke them consistently, what other classes do you play with

[stuck perch]

If you're having trouble vs PDR, then that's an option added for counter play against them.

[turbid hamlet]

I was playing wizard, double ranger from level 1 and it was a breeze, killed a few geared groups just due to sheer w key confidence they had.

[tall mist]

That leads me to my next point tho. I’ve talked with friends about it and they similar things like play to your strengths and evade the too geared guys. But the problem is the storm. Why is there a battle royale mechanic in an extraction loot game? Why not have evacs like tarkov or hunt and then drop in matchmaking with regening loot

[turbid hamlet]

You don’t avoid them, you bait them to you

You’re playing ranger, if they have no long range poke or it’s not something hard to deal with like barb/wizard, you should be easily able to take down a higher geared group

[tall mist]

Okay so the circle closes and you have to move they have the the middle and their holding your blues with their reds open what do I do

[signal vapor]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486901/revert-automatically-grabbing-next-utility-slot please

[stuck perch]

The regening loot is kinda weird but I also don't like the shroud mechanic. But it can't be removed without adding some way to help players find the portals. No one wants to clear the entire dungeon looking for portals.

[turbid hamlet]

That’s just bad play by you guys at that point, I’ve never had that issue - sounds like you’re just ratting

[tall mist]

The extracts would be marked on the map/eventually learned by players and would be a either portals or a zone that you stand in with a timer till extract

[turbid hamlet]

Think you just need to start playing on the map more if that consistently happens imo

[stuck perch]

The problem with static extraction locations is that players will camp them. The random ones is pretty much left up to chance.

[tall mist]

I would rather have someone camp at a static then camp my portal in the middle of a battle royale storm100 percent and assuming there’s multiple you just go to the other one

[stuck perch]

Even when that someone is a team of geared up players just waiting for you to bring them your loot?

[tall mist]

Yeah because there’s no fucking storm forcing me into them I can run away I can outplay I can close doors and route better

[stuck perch]

But it's your only extraction point. You can wait but eventually you'll have to contest them.

[tall mist]

You’re assuming there’s one?

[turbid hamlet]

Sounds boring as fuck if there was set extractions

[stuck perch]

I'd rather the random spawns, however someone had an idea awhile back where you'd find clues towards the portals with scrolls and other trinkets you'd find. Kinda like sea of thieves treasure (his words, I never played SoT)

[turbid hamlet]

The games pvp focused, the storm is fine (maybe closes a little too fast) it’s just a skill issue

[tall mist]

It’s how a lot of extraction/looters work

[stuck perch]

I'd come up with different mechanics rather than just the storm and have each map pick a random one.

[icy panther]

I think introducing a few static extractions wouldn't be bad, as long as blues stay

[turbid hamlet]

It works for tarkov cos there’s loot hotspots

[tall mist]

There’s loot hotspots in this?

[icy panther]

Theres loot hotspots in DaD too, lol.

[turbid hamlet]

There’s stuff to contest, that doesn’t exist in dnd really without some rooms being a little bit better

Nah no where near the same level as tarkov, not even close

[icy panther]

Tarkov - "This room has a bunch of valuable spawns, it's a hotspot"
DaD - "This room has a bunch of treasure spawns, it's not hotspot"

[tall mist]

Wraith rooms champ rooms golden chests?

[turbid hamlet]

Dad is consistent across the board generally, besides like the skull bat room

[stuck perch]

those and health shrine rooms

[turbid hamlet]

I mean if you think that’s a hotspot for loot - sure, it’s generally complete garbage but ye

[icy panther]

And the two identical rooms with the Z pattern floor spikes, guaranteed to get 1-3 lions heads

[turbid hamlet]

There’s no incentive to move across the map for any room or contest it like in tarkov for example - there’s so much loot spread out

[stuck perch]

It's better than wasting your time looking through tiny chests that litter the dungeon.

[turbid hamlet]

If you don’t have a luck bard, all chests are garbage

[stuck perch]

The luck mechanic should be removed.

[icy panther]

Ore room in crypt is highly desireable, so is the twin coffin rooms for all the coffin spawns

Library and treasury room in caves, well area in ruins

[turbid hamlet]

Maybe you guys are lucky, there hasn’t been more than a handful of rememberable loot in any chests for me in 3s

[stuck perch]

The center of the maze has some good chests but it's rarely contested. I'm about the only guy that goes there.

[turbid hamlet]

There’s just no incentive to push for any specific room besides the skull bat room imo

[stuck perch]

"skull bat room"?

[icy panther]

Pyramid iirc

[turbid hamlet]

Wtv the pyramid room is, that one is consistently strong in HR and standard

[stuck perch]

Ah, the Pyramid, that one is nice but annoying to clear with some classes.

[turbid hamlet]

Just round all the mobs together and lightning strike

[icy panther]

Its because of the amount of chests, which is why the twin coffin rooms are also good.

[turbid hamlet]

No it’s cause of the bats, the chests are mid

[stuck perch]

Twin coffin room?

[icy panther]

Dont know a better name for it, shitloads of coffins with around 5 skeletons each, connected through a tunnel you break wooden planks for.
It's usually connected to that large atrium/theatre room in the south or the giant ore room in cardinal southwest

Coffins genuinely give me better loot than chests 7 times out of 10

Let me get a picture
Can't get a picture in the channel

[tall mist]

I know what you’re talking about dunno what to call it either

[blazing gyro]

Tbh, a reasonable suggestion is to limit any legendary item to high roller only. Asking for purple/blue/green/etc gear brackets would be ill-advised.

[icy panther]

It's the most reasonable suggestion imo, keep purple on boss kill only as well.

[blazing gyro]

One of the best parts about this game is going into a lobby with nothing but a few hp pots, a white rapier, and a grey regal.. then coming out with some dude's purple full set of gear that misplayed his hand. That thrill would be entirely lost in broken up gear brackets and would take a major element out of the game. Gear still does need balancing obviously, but speaking towards rarity alone here.

[icy panther]

Yeah really, it's genuinely an immense feeling of euphoria when that happens. Did it twice yesterday and still riding that high.

[zealous thorn]

Quarterstaff doesnt have a place. Allow rangers to use it via spear perk and rename the perk to fit.

[blazing gyro]

I saw some barb lobby clear an entire lobby today with a blue quarterstaff.

[zealous thorn]

Yea but its rare that a barb would use that weapon. A quarterstaff fits the ranger

[blazing gyro]

A quarterstaff fits the monk, which is not among us yet. Even the Druid.

[stuck perch]

They should also remove red ore from all but the 3rd map of a stack and blue ore from all but the 2nd map of a stack.

put ruins back in the crypt/inferno stack, and give goblin caves a F1 map

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree!!

[stuck perch]

A longword fits the ranger better.

[zealous thorn]

I mean yea that too.

[stuck perch]

I'm kinda sad I can't Aragon my way through the dungeon.

[zealous thorn]

Just go fighter and pretend your a ranger

[stuck perch]

But I'm not going to get the cool hood and the traps.

[zealous thorn]

Aragorn dont set no traps and he wears a hood like once in the inn scene lol

[stuck perch]

There's that decoy stuff in the inn. But I just love traps in general, I hope we get more options for traps, in particular chambered traps.

[zealous thorn]

Give me drow race and make rangers good with dual wielding. I wanna nerd out drizzt style

[stuck perch]

I don't know if the drow race has been copyrighted...

[zealous thorn]

Dark elf then. Those are like in every fantasy game. Cant copyright nord mythos

How would they add a dwarf without making them OP cuz they short

[stuck perch]

Just make them short and wide, what you gain with a lower height you lose with being a wider target.

[fiery garnet]

Can we modify warlock spells so magic / spellcasting warlock is viable? At the moment it isn't really. It's either hybrid or melee warlock.

[stuck perch]

I'd be happy with more spells for warlock. I don't want to wait 3 months and get 20 spells all at once.
Let him get content updates as they make them.

[zealous thorn]

Would a 15 strength ranger do the same amount of melee damage as a 15 fighter? It says rangers are weak at melee

[stuck perch]

Rangers are weak at melee because of low strength and they also don't have access to a lot of high damage melee weapons like the falchion. The spear is their best one but you need a perk for it.

[vivid coral]

-Gambling statistics: Possibility to change a chosen statistic of an object for a random statistic at gold cost, each roll costs more gold. It would give more role to the merchants, more utility to the gold and the possibility to trade with more valuable items. Motive: to give an example..and I am a cleric xD...As there is a possibility that you get ''spell capacity'' in a barbarian axe, and this is useless for him...give him the possibility to try to change the statistic for gold and let luck have the last word (like in diablo, for example).

You will only be able to change a chosen statistic by a random one and it will cost more and more expensive.

Vote if u like ---> ''Change of items stats'' is the title of the post on the official page
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487234/change-of-items-stats

[elfin vigil]

I like the idea but you shouldn’t be able to choose the specific line. And price should change depending on rarity

It’s good to recover bad items and make them decent but we don’t need a tool to minmax légendaires and uniques tbh 😁

[elfin vigil]

I don’t 100% agree but worth a try maybe it’s gonna be good

[vivid coral]

Of course there may be details to improve and so on hehe thanks

[celest basalt]

Discord channel for selling shit ingame thank you! makes things easier if u actually have juice stuff

[solemn needle]

Goblin caves is a wild place. I just witness a warlock killing the troll and a rogue was guarding the door. When the warlock ended killing the rogue looted the body and the treasure (with the help of the warlock).... I reported both for cheating

[vivid warren]

all barbs are sweats, its rough

[terse dawn]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489524/making-gear-worthwhile

I'm curious on what people think

[solemn needle]

rogue meta is invis and try to spam stilleto..

[vivid warren]

TAKE POTS AWAY FROM BARBS!

[ripe bluff]

remove bard

[terse dawn]

Heh?

[vivid warren]

barbs in goblen caves with 7 health potions is stupid, i think they should rely in shrines and clerics for magic healing

[kindred osprey]

Personally i belive they should cap healing items like potions and bandages to 3 max no mater the quality going in, sure you can find more but that would hurt the back pack pharmacy

[terse dawn]

Barbs have 140 hp pots only heal 15. They literally would never heal to full from low hp if it was limited

[kindred osprey]

that is why there is 2 classes that can heal, you can rest, would make combat more deadly and make every combat encounter actually mean things.

[terse dawn]

It would make ratting a major concern. A game I play rn Albion Online has a rat problem. People will often third party and kill instead of fight because healing is harder in fights unless your a few specific builds

[polar oxide]

Nerf trade system. Add a limit of exchange / day.

[terse dawn]

Terrible. U almost never find gear you can use

[polar oxide]

Why terrible ? Better fight in dungeon, more fight in dungeon, a little harder to have a good Gear so better experience and life longer of wipe

But we need a bigger Stash i think for that ^^

[terse dawn]

If you were able to find gear that works for you it wouldn't be bad. But as a wizard I don't wanna see bad gear or no gear for 3 games in a row till I manage to get a small upgrade

[polar oxide]

trade system broke the equilibre of the game and economy. It's too easy to have a gear. Just farm gold and extract and buy a good gear. Find a good item in dungeon is useless

yes but a limit of exchange is not bad. You can buy a gear but you can't spam all the day

[cerulean pollen]

dont get hit my guy. barb dominates melee combat, use spacing to avoid rangers

[kindred osprey]

I understand that third partying thing however, that comes with the territory of a battle royal. having healing at least semi limited would cause players to stop going in with max gear into standard lobby's with little to no chance of losing it to people with standard starter gear. The fact that people can come in with half there backpack full of heals is a bit too much.

[terse dawn]

If you managed to not get hit as a slow barb heals were never an issue for u

[kindred osprey]

all monsters except for the bosses in hell are 100% avoidable in dmg with every class sadly.

its the players that bring difficulty into the game

[vagrant compass]

two step process

[terse dawn]

I often wipe lobbies Hr sometimes and Normal almost every time. And we try to boss everytime

[kindred osprey]

then you are not the problem, however the fact that people can have half to more than half of three inventory full of healing supply's is a bit much. Having a cap of what you can bring in, would fix it. Would make people play more cautiously and less run in and just heal after. but that is my suggestion.

[terse dawn]

Tbh we don't need heals.... I think earlier I had 8 pots and after 3 games had 6 or 7... cleric just heals to much

[kindred osprey]

If healing was not a issues the devs where still looking into they wouldn't have changed healing. they have even stated that they wanted to make combat more punishing.

and that is the point of a cleric sadly, same with bard. and they even wanted have stated they were thinking of giving heals to rangers or a way for rangers to heal, druid if they are following standard D&D logic will also have some healing options.

the game was based around a 3 man party. You can run in with 3 fighters and do alright, however a good party composition will always get you farther.

[terse dawn]

Cleric with healing gear is ridiculous. I think they just need more anti heal options

Wizard with a cauterize perk that reduces healing on fire DMG. Poison arrow rouge or ranger that antiheals

[kindred osprey]

I am fine if they would remove the ability to regenerate healing spells with standard rest. make it campfire only, So if we really wanted to make fighting more dificult, have it limited healing items brining in, and no longer regenerate spells with standard rest. only with campfires.

[terse dawn]

Actually I really like the rouge poison antiheals idea and mage perk. Mage is 40% similar to melt. And rouge is 7% per stack of poison up to 35%

[kindred osprey]

closer to the alpha 2.

[mortal saddle]

state of gathering hall is ridiculous. 10 bots spam per 1 real message, you right click the bots and for some reason in the halls you cant block em. the exact same bots spamming for days of not weeks not getting banned

https://ibb.co/cJCmdfn

[lament sequoia]

what are the new balances coming ?

[spark sonnet]

nerf achilles, its not even a suggestion at this point lol, fisticuffs barb needs to be put down

[nimble solstice]

remove bard, just a suggestion:)

[lament sequoia]

I agree with that

[odd halo]

Remove achilles strike and hunting trap.

[small oak]

Does anyone know what the RED part of lockpicking actually does? i have a feeling it sometimes doesnt use up the lockpick (but not always) but is there any info on the actual benefits?

[abstract swallow]

Bards having the ability to stack movement and action speed in teams, a dedicated nuke button, and the best defensive buff in the game on top of having crazy good clear speed on their own, is one of the few balance issues I think actually needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

[glad lotus]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489340/gathering

[wooden token]

Why does wizard lower my fps so much
we need to reduce visual effect to make everyone feel smooth

[abstract swallow]

more stash space wouldn't solve anything
It'd just make people hoard even more gear and make prices even more absurd

[glacial sphinx]

Dont like P2W stuff. Better to sell cosmetics

[cerulean pollen]

Yo can we get some new wizard spells added? and perks? lets talk about that, thats my suggestion

[elfin vigil]

Yup this would be badly seen by community. Which makes sense because having advantage by paying is a stupid mechanic and you should really reflect on your way of thinking about game mechanics while you’re at it 😉

Definitely a nice idea tbh when I started I assumed lt was in the game already got sad when J realized it wasn’t

[elfin vigil]

Instant activation(opening) especially good on classes where you need to succeed 2 skill check to open a chest.

[elfin vigil]

This is legit the only spell that allows viable gameplay of barb in solo , you can’t do anything without it. As an opponent you just need to dodge 1 throwable and he’s kitable for 20+ seconds btw

By the way I feel like one big issue right now is gear modifier of flat damage add : make it so that they are either less strong , or harder to get ( for example +1 damage max on green and blue items , +2 for purple +3 for legendary +4 for uniques.) and maybe truly damage only on purple and +

[spark sonnet]

not a naked barb who just runs at you with fists

[glacial sphinx]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489569/remove-added-damage-from-anything-except-weapons-and-jewelry

[white storm]

WIPE SOON PLZ its not fun runing normal dungens on new charachter and getting oneshooted by a rouge with full purple gear

[amber rivet]

Spoiler: he will one shot you with grey too

[small oak]

spoiler : skill issue

[white storm]

spoiler: havent touched grass in a long time

[ivory quartz]

Higher quality items already have more affixes, we don't need them to have better roles too.

[small oak]

spoiler : you can have a healthy lifestyle and be good at games 😉

[white storm]

spoiler: Your not him

[real trellis]

Interesting suggestion discussion going on in here really making some salient points

[torn jolt]

We need an option to see our team mates better in close contant. Names vanishes up in the air etc. Maybe just highlighted edges of team mates.

[zealous fog]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488680/remove-instadeath-last-circle

[vivid warren]

A Hardcore game with a Softcore class
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488695/a-hardcore-game-with-a-softcore-class we discussing about how easy barbarian in solo cave right now have a look and maybe give your opinion

[inner marsh]

This isn’t fully baked but it’s an idea to solve the class and meta crisis it seems like dark and darker is going through

Currently players choose their class before entering the dungeon and this dictates the weapons/skills they can use. This can lead to what I consider to be easy metas.

We can’t avoid metas. It’s what humans do. We will find it. But what we can do is control how easy it is to find that meta and currently it’s at the character select screen

What if the trade and merchants were removed from the game and classes were instead dictated by the weapons you find in the dungeon. What’s this mean?

Instead of entering the dungeon as a rogue right off the rip, you enter as a base character and have to find a dagger weapon. Finding a dagger unlocks the rogue class for you, but switch to another weapon you find like say a spell book and now you can cast spells like a wizard

This makes it to where you can use literally anything you find at a tradeoff.

Also finding the meta now is more luck based (did you find the right weapons) vs people coming right into the lobby with the meta

An immediate issue with this though is how to balance base characters competing with those that have found a weapon/class and the solution is what I hear often currently. Base ppl should only ever be in lobbies with other base ppl.

This damn near sounds like a new game though 😂

[elfin vigil]

What class do you play ?

[elfin vigil]

Why not ? You think it’s normal to have purple that are worse than greens sometimes ?

More affixes is more chance to have what you need but it doesn’t make sense think about it : green gloves with +2 weapon damage or legendaries with +4% item equip speed ?

At least following my suggestion getting green items would be less strong.

You will get 10x times more greens than purples , so on average the green gear you loot is gonna be better than the purple you loot.

[haughty crag]

In my opinion the high roller queue's should be gear capped because it is too easy for a naked rogue to just quickly farm up like 200g and solo rush HR with grey gear.

[elfin vigil]

Said and said again they won’t balance around solo gameplay.

Plus to be fair barb are really kiteable. Only if they hit you with Achilles then you’re dead you got one thing to dodge

[elfin vigil]

Tf are u saying lol, low gear was never the issue in HR the issue is bringing more geared player in hr

[haughty crag]

you see the problem is it is too easy to skip the progression phase

[hushed sentinel]

i suggest to fix server error (2)

[elfin vigil]

this is a rogue problem but this is why the class is liked it gives it identity being able to reliably play like a rat and escape

[pale bloom]

So I guess im not the only one getting 2 shotted by ranged Barbs then 🙂

[ripe bluff]

REMOVE BARD

[primal spindle]

finish warlock class please

[solemn girder]

Agreed

[void scarab]

I know its been said before and it is listed a few times on the forums, But I hope the devs consider a training ground to practice different skills/Gear combos.

[elfin vigil]

Dodge it

[lusty crystal]

Make fighters heal to 35% and rogues ambush/weak point to 35%

[quiet gorge]

Any way to find out how many players are playing the game?

[lusty crystal]

When you join it says the player count then you can manually count the deaths

[quiet gorge]

Oh right in game?

[vital violet]

I haven't been able to log in and play the game for days. I can understand the difficulties Iron Mace is experiencing, but it saddens me that no solutions can be found to the problems experienced after thousands of sales and revenues. I wish I had purchased the game after it was released on Steam or a more reliable platform. Anyway Can someone who can help me fix the ''server error'' contact me via dm?

[somber yew]

please make all +3 gear that can no longer be obtained to +1. tired of running into no geared teams 5 games in a row and then just running into a team with all +3 gear and can't compete.

[viral saffron]

Rework bard please. Trios are dying because of how toxic bard is. Double haste buff. shriek and din of darkness being able to do damage across rooms or even floors is insane!! Also bard can open all chest surrounding him, even the one that need lock pick. Can have 10 spells without the need of spell capacity. Buff the entire party with one spell, does both magical and physical damage. And can use the strongest one hand weapon (falchion). And is the fastest class. With a virtually 100% buff uptime. Trios in normal already have less people playing taking the full 3 minutes for the game to start and not even at full capacity. What the hell is going on?
Devs DO something!!

[slender solstice]

Just like the magic users have to rest to recover spells, the bard should have to "tune" his instruments in order to keep playing music. Its pretty insane that he can spam anything he wants however much he needs.

[stuck perch]

Stop complaining about the minor thing bard does. It's like complaining that Ranger has a bow. Bard could be tuned but it's not by nerfing things that you'll make the class better. Add more complexity to the class to make playing it harder and justify the power the abilities bring to the class.

[viral saffron]

Yeah that would be one angle of “fixing it”. Both wizard and cleric can fight for so long but bard just keeps going brother! This is a concert! And I’m star!

[stuck perch]

Bard spells take longer and last longer than Wizard's and Cleric's. Lean in on that instead of forcing blandness amongst the classes.

[viral saffron]

You are biased as f. Prolly a bard main. That won’t recognize that bard is broken in trios. Can buff better than cleric with no downtime. Does more damage, and is faster. Also can diminish rogues to nothing because he can make them pop out of stealth. Open all chests surrounding him. Stack two buffs of haste. Have 10 spells with no need of spell capacity being able to stack will or wtv stat they want. Trios is already dying in my region where it takes the full 3 minutes for the match to start with not even full players in. Also you say that his spells take longer but all his buffs duration is 2 minutes beside the 3+ stats.

[stuck perch]

Maybe I recognize that the bards have counterplay in trios because I've mained them for awhile, especially before their nerfs and know how to counter them or a buff ball that has one.

[stuck ruin]

They need to change the way the songs work to being random button presses. Even though people won’t admit it there are lots soft cheater bards out their that have macros for the songs.

[viral saffron]

I don’t think you are right. Just pay attention to the “meta” and will realize that bard is OP and makes the game feel dull.

[stuck ruin]

Make it more skill based on the music end

[stuck perch]

You only need to pay attention to the meta enough to take a spell that counters them if you feel like you need to counter them that much.

That the only one that has a viable counter against them is Cleric is a problem but that's a different issue.

[cursive kayak]

this is why we need duo high roll everyone in trios has two supports and it's aids to play against. in duo the comps arent broken

[stuck perch]

Just give us proper CC, and the duo support meta gets a hard slap.

[viral saffron]

Tell me how do you counter them when you are one floor above or below and can’t reach them and they keep spamming shriek? I think you might be just a newbie looking to argue? Maybe not getting that much attention today? Huh!!?

[cursive kayak]

honestly they should just make it so u can only have 1 support character per team cuz it's just stupid

[stuck perch]

There's very few places in the dungeon where the floor below or above you follows your corridor exactly. This makes it impossible for them to chase you even if they knew where you are. Just get away when you start hearing the shriek tune. Bards can hear their damaging songs hit something so they're not going to stop playing it if you're there.

[viral saffron]

Good counter just running away how amusing. Good one! Also do you realize you are the only one “defending” bards? Tried to come out as I’m the best player and just you gotta do as I do to counter them! And you then campe up with this bullshit of just having to run away? Please.. every other person here while we discuss are saying the exact same thing bard is broken. Is ok to sometimes realize that one is wrong nothing to be shamed about.

[slender solstice]

Suggestion to add a Bard rest/spell recovery system into the game https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489655/bard-instrument-tuning-spell-recovery

[cursive kayak]

that shit is stupid there shouldnt be a skill that lets u do free dmg with no risk

[viral saffron]

Across several layers of thick walls or floors yeah totally not broken.

[cursive kayak]

yeah absolute no skill needed idk why they wanna keep adding more classes when the game was fine the way it was

[stuck perch]

There's several downsides to the spell if you can't figure out how to avoid it it's a skill issue.

[viral saffron]

MKe it so hard can only give 3 buffs at the time. And only be able to cast shriek or din just once every 2 minutes. Also make him unable to have all 10 songs without needing gear for it. How come wizard and cleric need knowledge/spell capacity and can only cast at most 5 charges of the same spell but bard not only can use as many spells they want but also spam them? Is beyond ridiculous

[viral saffron]

So run away and now skill issue are your arguments? Is this a boy with who I’m talking now? Because your intellectual capacity to actually think and develop an idea and argument for it is lacking.

[stuck perch]

Sorry I forgot that the limits of your tactical understanding is press W and hold L-click.

[viral saffron]

Again press W, skill issue. You are just an npc with automated response. Good luck I suppose. Because you will need it.

[cursive kayak]

he's troling

[stuck ruin]

Lol he’s trolling ? Why add more content the game was fine XD

[stuck perch]

Avoiding unnecessary damage by retreating isn't a stupid tactic. You can then reposition in a way where you can punish the bard and if he keeps using Shrill when you're meleeing him, he won't have enough dps to burst you down.

[crystal prism]

I mean this would make sense but his move speed and interaction speed buffs make this hard

[stuck perch]

It's like those guys that turtle behind a door when they hear a bard casting Din a darkness, try to tank it all thinking the bard won't just keep doing it until they're all dead.

[crystal prism]

only thing broken with bard is move speed atm if they nerf/remove it would put him in a good spot

[stuck perch]

I'm not saying it's supposed to be easy. But various classes have skills that either let you catch him or slow him down. Shrill is also very weak damage per cast so if you're hitting him, you're winning that exchange. If you want to fix shrill, remove the mechanic where getting a red note moves the song along.

[stiff token]

Fix the god damn animations on bard songs + haste on wizard and capes literally brings ppl down to 20 fps

[crystal prism]

sounds like a computer issue

[stiff token]

yeah 100% when a guy with a 3080 notices it too

[crystal prism]

Sounds like someone build their pc and did not optimize it

[stiff token]

🤓

[hushed sentinel]

This is not a bad idea at all
How to fix Dark and Darker in 5 steps:

1. Fix the srver error (2) bug
2. Fix the srver error (2) bug
3. Fix the srver error (2) bug
4. Fix the srver error (2) bug
5. Let me play the game
   fixed some of the stupid ideas

[silent tide]

they need to get rid of "your eyes begin to close" Let me struggle and try and escape and panic, its a bad game mechanic that serves no purpose

[hushed sentinel]

you are literally dying

[silent tide]

so let my health tick down then

[vernal lotus]

I think that’s there so people don’t go into raid completely stacked with healing to loot the whole dungeon

[silent tide]

impossible you can barley see and even with a bard or cleric you still tick down

[muted nova]

what if we made every armor only effective against certain attacks

[stuck perch]

Like only magic attacks or you mean have some attacks deal true damage?

[muted nova]

like cloth leather more effective vs magic, blunt and magic beats plate. Not true damage but maybe do more damage.

[carmine forge]

Can everyone agree that bard should be limited just like everyone else that can buff. I mean they can indefinitely have buffs on their whole team. Who thought that was a good idea. On top of that now if you have a bard wizard doesnt need to meditate because you can once again indefinitely have buffs on your whole team. Why is every other caster/buffer limited but the bard has no restrictions. Don't nerf anything bard has simply make that class like the others alike. I understand he/she is playing an instrument but that doesnt change the fact that it is broken to have buffs/debuffs/etc. without any drawback. The bard has not one restriction when it comes to that field. It is a simple nerf that will balance out that class. Right now not having a bard on your team puts your own team at a disadvantage. That alone is a problem in itself.

[muted nova]

then buffs would have to be better and longer

[crystal prism]

once we agree to remove all bows from game other then survival bow and only rangers are allowed to use

[carmine forge]

I will support that. The ones that can last 120 seconds should stay and the ones that last I think it is 6 seconds should be cranked to 20-30 seconds.

[carmine forge]

The main problem with the bow is the damage scaling compared to the safety at which you can deal it.

You can have a junk tier long bow that does 40 dmg which in turn will kill all the classes except for barb and fighter with triple shot and even those classes would be 1 by the end of it.

then if you have spreadshot you just barrel stuff anyone who rushes you and right there you outputted 200+ dmg

[muted nova]

bows are just too good. The damage type is projectile, and only one class can have armor that's better vs that

[silent tide]

honestly clerics just need to be buffed so they can actually use all their spells to counter a bard rush. Earthquake being so far out of reach doesn't make sense when every other class starts out with all their spells

[stuck perch]

Cleric only needs 1 spell to counter a bard rush. That said I think Cleric's bless should be made into a 120s base duration.

[muted nova]

yeah

[dreamy edge]

create a channel to upload the evidence(a clip) of team before game on goblin cave... couse doesnt exist that report option.

[silent tide]

yeah it may be one spell but you can actually jump over it kek

[stray wasp]

Remove femboy twink bard/cleric

[silent tide]

smite cleric is giga chad

[languid spoke]

sleeper OP on barb

[muted nova]

used be waker op, old play test was like 10 movespeed

[stuck perch]

I'm not talking about Earthquake, you have a fully buffed barbarian or fighter running head on towards your team after being buffed for 10 to 15s, then you cleanse all his buffs away and smack the basic player before his team can reapply buffs.

Cleanse is also like a level 2 spell. It's much more accessible than earthquake.

[silent tide]

ok now what about the rogue and bard which are still juiced, it may buy like 2 seconds but i wouldn't say that's a direct counter, a direct counter would be locking down a hallway or separating their team

[stuck perch]

Nothing prevents you from hitting those guys with a cleanse as well but you can like you said zone them out away from their team.

Typically the comp that people have been complaining about is 2 supports and one supported main character

[silent tide]

honestly they need to give a class spell steal to break up the bard/cleric meta

[stuck perch]

Make a dispel potion that can either be drunk to cleanse oneself or thrown at someone else to cleanse them.

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree!!

[blazing gyro]

I think the defile would need to be an instant full value with the poison or you might as well just use thrust for burst.

[blazing gyro]

Can you imagine.. more bard songs than bards... it would be the most immersion breaking garbage of all-time. Yes, I hate bards in their current state.

[olive oasis]

Remove Achilles strike damage and make it slow the Barb one shots are getting dumb

[blazing gyro]

Somebody brought up the point of introducing an exhaustion system or cooldown per song. I still think the proper way to approach bard is to rework them nearly entirely.

[stuck perch]

They're not going to rework the bard extensively. He's based on the CEO's time as a bard in everquest.

[blazing gyro]

Which means that the CEO would care that his version of the bard was good enough for him and people playing his game. It is not currently.

I fully expect bard to have some serious looks at it. The devs have shown they want the game to be of quality. Bard is not currently.

[empty valve]

-bard/cleric nerf (or cap buffs so you cant mega buff one player)
-increase projectile reduction across all armor to keep ranger in check
-buff/rework warlock (clas is overall boring/lacking
-rogue ambush shouldnt work after being revealed
-spell attributes on healing/buffs should be 50% or 75%
-increase cooldown on triple shot (from a ranger main)

[blazing gyro]

Just because he based it off his time in EQ and is heavily basing it off of that/D&D... is all the more reason to take the class seriously. Right now, bard is a meme of what bard should be.

[stuck perch]

While they could always improve the bard, the bard as he was at EA with all the OP stuff was fine. Most of his mechanics were a blast to play, he just needed to lose the red notes making his songs progress faster and some additional complexity to some of his songs. Possibly a buff in range to some of his less popular songs and he'd be great.

Not that I disagree with nerfing the scaling of Din of Darkness.

[blazing gyro]

The last thing bard is getting rn is a buff to its songs. It was already made clear that bard is going to be focused on with adjustments and I expect wiz support functions are going to be on the chopping block with it.

I would expect caps on buff stacking will be introduced around the same time.

[stuck perch]

Ah so I get it you just want all support mechanics removed from classes. Not going to happen, a sizable fanbase of this game actually enjoy playing support oriented classes.

[blazing gyro]

lmfao. No, I never said that. I said support functions are going to be reeled in... as the power discrepancy right now is way too high for a fully buffed player vs a unbuffed player.

[torn jolt]

Set bards tunes bit lower level, ears are bleeding in whole team when you play hours and hours

[blazing gyro]

I refuse to play with bards for this reason and I always target bards first in groupfights.. just shut them UP xD

[stuck perch]

How about a fully buffed player vs 3 other players? because if you're fully buffing a player with 2 supports, that's what it is, a 3v3.

[solar falcon]

for the love of all that is good and holy remove Achilles strike from the fucking barbarian. I am so tired of being instantly killed by a single throwing axe. it is the absolute scummiest thing in this fucking game

[blazing gyro]

You only argue as if you are right from the start of each discussion. You act like this game is the epitome of balance with bard and the conceptual masterpiece of execution is an integrity you will die defending. Just talk to somebody else man.

[blazing gyro]

The fact that I've heard so many people in-game and outside of game say something similar to this just shows how badly bard needs a rework. Imagine a musical class actually ear-grating people non-stop... You think the CEO wanted that? Hell no. Bard is supposed to be a charismatic talented silver-tongued devil. Not some spammy few note wonder that is a JOKE. There's no way the CEO wants that to be the image of his creation. A meme.

[stuck perch]

The idea that a fully buffed player should barely anything more than an unbuffed player is proposing that spending your time buffing is a waste and you should just contribute directly to the fight instead of wasting your time.

I've already mentioned that I don't think the game was balanced, but you're arguing to push it into the gutter just because you don't like support mechanics. Well I'd rather see more support mechanics than less, and support mechanics that make it worth using instead of just rushing in and smacking people.

[blazing gyro]

Once again, I never said this. You just talk in your own direction and continue to do so. Never said the unbuffed vs buffed player should be "barely anything more".. however, it's very obvious that the gap needs to lessen.

aka, introduce caps.

[stuck perch]

And I quote: "I said support functions are going to be reeled in... as the power discrepancy right now is way too high for a fully buffed player vs a unbuffed player." You're arguing that 2 players pouring their time and power into a 3 player shouldn't be much more powerful than a single player on the other team. Yeah I was exactly right as to what you're arguing for.

[blazing gyro]

No, you weren't.. because you reach so far with my words. You quote something, then instantly manipulate the words of someone as if that's what they said. Give it a rest.

"Barely anything" and "shouldn't be much more powerful" was never used.. I said, reel it in some... aka balance it mindfully like human beings. I trust the devs to do so. I would not trust you.

[stuck perch]

You do realize the use of the quotation marks above to delineated where your words stopped and mine started right?

[olive oasis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489701/movementbarbranger-changes my suggested movement/Barb/ranger changes

[silent tide]

spell steal would mean you steal all the buffs off a player not cast more songs

[stuck perch]

If you think the bard is overpowered in this state, you're going to cry about what ever the bard does until the devs rework him to be some joke about bards in D&D. Which they won't.

[blazing gyro]

This would be quite interesting, but buffs would still have to be reeled in along with that mechanic being introduced.

[glacial sphinx]

Bard buffs are 100% too powerful atm, in particular movespeed and spell restore. Remove the movespeed one and half the tick frequency on spell restore.

Also add a dispell magic spell that purges a targets buffs on hit

[olive oasis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489701/movementbarbranger-changes

[blazing gyro]

See, that's where your input goes completely out the window to anybody with some sense. I don't mean to insult you, but you are talking like bard is NOT overpowered in this state. So many good players in this game understand how good bard is right now.. why do you think everyone is hand-holding their bard across HR dungeons and absolutely dumpstering normal crypts lobbies/etc? Coincidence? lol. Gaming became more about "meta" than anything over recent years.. why do you think you hear non-stop trash music in the dungeon rn? Because bard is a musical masterpiece? No, because it's obviously OP... even the devs stated they understand bard needs adjustments the last time they nerfed it.

[hallow saffron]

and the 30 second +3 all buffs lasting for 120 seconds instead....
Cleric cleanse does this

[scenic abyss]

please make the auto utility swap after usage an option rather than now default swap when it was default back to hands

[silent tide]

they dont need to nerf bard, just buff other support classes

[glacial sphinx]

no, other support stuff is strong enough as it is, possibly too strong as well

[hallow saffron]

bard IS op. they are over performing hard and make every class they interact with over perfom. a bard in your party is easily 1k gold worth of stats that your team doesnt have to worry about plus can debuff enemies.

[blazing gyro]

wiz and bard buffs are both too strong when paired rn. buffing support kits is not the play atm.

[stuck perch]

Move speed needs more complexity so that using it to it's full effect is harder not just nerfing it until people stop using it. Spell restore has been nerfed to where it's useless on it's own and requires the recipients to be resting to have any decent effect. Even then it barely increases the speed at which it restores spells. You need to keep it up for over a minute in order to get 1 lesser heal back.

[olive oasis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489701/movementbarbranger-changes

[glacial sphinx]

No you get a lot of recovery because of your spell capacity. Thats why the ticks have to be less frequent

[silent tide]

just remove move speed from bard and GG. Everyone knows move speed is S tier right now

10.66% movespeed for a group is too strong

[hallow saffron]

and attack speed! dont forget that aspect

[jovial swan]

I'm going to post a weapon patch concept here and I want to see your thoughts.

[muted nova]

that's fine

[hallow saffron]

thats. fine? have you seen a falchion swinging as faster a rangers rapier

[olive oasis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489701/movementbarbranger-changes

[muted nova]

I mean its just one bard with the buff. Not that bad

[granite plinth]

the game was better before the bard in general. the whole character is unbalanced shit

[muted nova]

it really is, every team has one

[silent tide]

id say remove charismatic performance that upgrades good performances into perfect and remove party speed and they would be pretty balanced with a high skill cap

[granite plinth]

the walking health pot too, you should have to sit down to recieve the benefit

[silent tide]

its not a health pot its a bandage

[granite plinth]

makes sitting resting slightly faster, not a walking unlimited bandage

[ornate fog]

@dawn grotto @keen onyx your awesome game really need a simple but efficient Auction House to improve item trading and selling in idle mode without losing time in trades; please consider it!

[silent tide]

NO thats the last thing we want is 3rd party manipulated auction house

[granite plinth]

there is no we, youre speaking for yourself here

[silent tide]

just because you are lazy to learn the value of items and to sell them doesnt mean we need to destroy the games economy

[ornate fog]

Acution Houses are present in every good MMORPG and they arent manipulated, there are rules just like in private trades

[granite plinth]

auction house is actual cancer. nothing to do with being lazy

[silent tide]

you obviously know nothing about the wow gold trade

[ornate fog]

but there are people who cant lose 15-30 mins waiting for an offer

[granite plinth]

@ornate fog ignore this dude, psykos trying to jump on a high horse and belittle everyone. you made a valid point

[silent tide]

then lower the price....its not the correct value basic economics

[ornate fog]

if WoW has a bad management on AH it doesn't mean every game has it... Take for example FFXI or FFXIV and many other games where AH is the core of economy.

[silent tide]

and the AH is manipulated by gold farmers and bots....

[orchid zodiac]

Please nerf goblin archers

As a rogue it feels way harder to fight them than even wraith or skeleton champion

they are x10 harder than skeleton archers

[fresh wyvern]

Make the rogue’s invis limited like the ranger’s food rations.

[orchid zodiac]

rogue without invis is literally worse than a damn spider

[jovial swan]

My next post will be quite big, but I think the following changes will be good for the game.

{Weapons}

[Longsword]
Nerf: Riposte damage values are reduced to 130% for both hits.

[Rapier]
Buff: Rapier can now block and parry an attack when not using a shield in the off-hand.
Buff: Parrying with the Rapier increases attack speed by 20% for 2 seconds.

[Viking Sword]
Buff: Changed the attack pattern into two horizontal slashes that have a brief delay before a fast swing.
Buff: Damage value of the second hit is increased to 120%.
Nerf: Removed the third hit of the attack.

[Quarterstaff]
Buff: Movement speed penalty reduced to -20.

[Kris]
Buff: Changed the attack pattern to slash/thrust/twist.
Buff: If the second hit of the Kris misses, the twist will no longer play out when held.
Nerf: Removed the fourth hit of the attack.

[Stiletto]
Nerf: Reduced the final hit damage value to 110%.

[Battle Axe]
Buff: Window between the first and second hit of the primary attack reduced to 1211ms.
Buff: The primary attack's second hit can now seamlessly transition into the secondary attack.

[Hatchet]
Buff: Movement speed penalty reduced to -16.
Buff: Hitbox size increased slightly to grant more hit consistency.

[Horseman's Axe]
Buff: Movement speed penalty reduced to -19.

[Longbow]
Nerf: Weapon damage values universally reduced by -6.

[Recurve Bow]
Nerf: Weapon damage values universally reduced by -4.

[Survival Bow]
Buff: Reload speed reduced to 1.97s.

[Crossbow]
Nerf: Removed the armor penetration ability.

[Crystal Sword]
Buff: Off-hand weapons can now be used in tandem with it.

[Round Shield]
Buff: Barbarians can now use the Round Shield.

[fresh wyvern]

I’m saying give them limited invis. Make them use it wisely.

[uncut scroll]

Just made a suggestion about a new weapon, the main gauche. Give it a vote up if you like it!
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489707/new-weapon-main-gauche

[olive oasis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489701/movementbarbranger-changes

[jovial swan]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489717/golden-key-rework

[untold linden]

Personally I think some changes need to happen:

Bard needs gutted in one way or another, either make their songs limited like spells, or force them to equip far less than 10 songs (like 4 only)

Achilles strike needs gutted or reworked into a slow

Rogue needs rupture to NOT apply with hand crossbow

Ranger longbow needs adjusted (or tripleshot, their burst dps is just too much right now)

Fighter ranged weapons need to be less effective (they shouldn't counter Ranger because they out-ranger the ranger)

Wizard shouldn't be able to haste or invis teammates

Cleric probably needs nerfed, but because there's no alternative healer, nerfs should wait.

Warlock blow of corruption needs to have its headshot multiplier removed (or just finish the class)

Gear needs to be less effective. Gear is far too strong and needs toned back severely. Either this, or make it so stacking certain damage is harder.
Example: +phys power + true physical damage + strength + additional physical damage + armor pen. (My point is there's way too many ways to increase physical damage in this example, make it so there's only one or two ways to increase physical damage instead)

Did I miss anything?

(This is based on my personal experience, feel free to disagree and/or discuss with me about it)

[winged mortar]

Reduce the effectiveness of gear by another 20% across the board.

[stuck perch]

Why not add complexity to the songs so they're not as easy to use at their full effectiveness? Also start the bard off with 1 instrument of his choice, which would solve your every bard has 10 songs problem. Although so would making their skills not suck.
Although I'm curious why you don't want wizard providing any support to his team mates, do you want the wizard to be a blaster only class?

[untold linden]

Definitely an interesting solution. I think it could work but ultimately once a bard gets their 4 instruments (they don't really need the Lute) they are still overpowered

Regarding wizard, it should be a selfish DPS. It's currently funneling more problems into the buff ball meta. Bard wizard buffing a fighter or rogue or barbarian is extremely problematic right now, especially with wizard still being able to dish out significant amounts of dps.

[stuck perch]

Maybe, but that would be a minority of bards who stay alive long enough to acquire all the instruments. Also make the instruments weapons instead of utility items. It would be less convenient for bards but they wouldn't be able to run through their whole gamut of songs without having to open their inventory to switch beyond 2 instruments. You could then advocate for some buffs to lute songs.

[untold linden]

Another very interesting solution. I like this idea too because having extremely limited utility options when playing bard is a bit irritating.

[stuck perch]

The answer to the buff ball problem is dispeling mechanics. Right now we have only a single class capable of doing so and it's with a single target spell.

[untold linden]

True true.

[stuck perch]

Also more viable CC would also help counter the buff ball meta, especially if it's 2 supports buffing a fighter or barbarian. Because all that effort and power gets put on hold while the buffed fighter/barbarian is polymorphed or frozen.

The CC could be balanced with either breaking on damage or making the target invulnerable until it wears off. I'd like to see both options on different classes.

[stuck perch]

Why should wizard be limited to a selfish dps class? I'd much rather play a support oriented wizard that focuses on either buffs or debuffs. Simply because that's the type I've always played in other games if such an option was available.

[untold linden]

Then you should be limited to buffing your team. Wizard has access to both. That's the problem. Once they add class skills and such and having to spec into certain builds. It will be fine.

[empty valve]

Stun/lock ccs arent a good idea with how strong ranger is right now. If they add that kinda cc they would have to immensely nerf ranger
A better cc would be a quick, massive debuff to damage/armor, or something that removes buffs for a short period of time

[stuck perch]

Wizard is kinda lacking in spells and perks right now. But given the option to take support oriented perks as opposed to damage perks should soften the dps of support wizards and the support of dps wizards. Viable debuffs would also help but right now there's no way to itemize for better buffs or debuffs, the buff duration stat only increases buffs cast on you, and the debuff duration stat only reduces the duration of debuffs cast on you. Making a wizard (or any class) choose between items that help it support better, do more damage or be tankier would help encourage players to focus on different playstyles.

[stuck perch]

That depends on how you implement it.

• For example, take a polymorph spell, turns a player into a small but fast rat for 20s that can't attack but gets a speed boost. The spell is broken on taking damage. While CC'd the player can still dodge or run away and if he does get hit it ends, but he's otherwise out of the picture.
• Another example would be a freeze spell that immobilizes the target for 15s, but also makes him immune to damage for the duration +0.5s
  You could allow the rat to run under doors or through metal bars, likewise large fire spells could remove the freeze effect (without doing damage) if you wanted something more flavourful.
  In both these cases there's little point to stun/lock a target as it won't help you kill him or is likely to just let him run away.

[empty valve]

15 seconds is too long though, max 4 seconds. Though i do like the rat idea

[stuck perch]

I'd be willing to change the durations a bit, but they have to be something that lasts long enough that someone on their team would want to consider removing the CC and have the time to do so.

Ideally you have a reasonable duration that can scale with stats on the caster. So if he wants to focus on that sort of thing he has something he can itemize for at the cost of taking less +damage items. Also the duration is reduced by the target's debuff duration so keep in mind that 4s doesn't always mean 4s.

[scarlet creek]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489734/another-ranged-throwing-weapon-the-javelin What do people think about Javelins?

[stuck perch]

Javelins would be great as a thrown weapon.

[scarlet creek]

Maybe have them stack to 5 and be a 1x4 in the inventory. Maybe a consumable slot or it could be a weapon slot maybe.

Maybe a 3 stack would be better for a consumable slot. 5 if it's a weapon slot

[stuck perch]

Have you ever held 5 javelins? I'd stack them up to 2 maybe 3 max although I'd let you use a shield with them. If anything knives and throwing axes should have larger stacks than javelins.

[scarlet creek]

True, Knives and axes should be a stack to at least 3. Javelins could be 2 in consumeable slots.

[stuck perch]

If you let barbarians use round shields, javelins and short spears you could let players play into the SPARTA fantasy.

[scarlet creek]

That would be awesome!

[hardy valley]

MAKE THE TRADE POST INTO AN AUCTION HOUSE PLEASE

[stuck perch]

I kinda like the current trade post setup. It requires effort to sell things. That said, you can make your own AH on a discord community server.

[hardy valley]

@stuck perch clearly u never bought any gear or sold any good gear. it take a long time for both and in the meanwhile u could easily use that time to actually play the game instead of just sitting and waiting doing nothing

[stuck perch]

I do buy and sell gear and I enjoy doing so while patiently doing something else. But that aside, an AH would greatly inflate the prices and throw the economy into disarray.

[granite plinth]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489361/non-high-roller-queues

[hardy valley]

@stuck perch an AH would do the complete opposite, especially if they add a price checker or anything along the lines of it. I understand you buy and sell gear but I am talking about selling and buying GOOD gear like puples and uniques, that takes awhile to do so especially if you don't got all day just sitting and waiting for the trade chat to fly past u trying to snag something good.

[frigid pewter]

why on earth are the devs not prioritizing adding a report function from the gathering hall chat? would make it so easy for them to ban all these gold selling bots.

[stuck perch]

The fact that people don't have all day is creating the pressure to lower their prices if they want to sell their item sooner or later. How would an AH lower the prices since it'll take away that pressure and also motivate players to ask for more as their starting bid?

[olive oasis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/489701/movementbarbranger-changes

[hardy valley]

@stuck perch there is no pressure in selling items at all. An AH would lower the prices by setting reasonable prices and listing the item in seconds while using the remaining time to actually play the game and get more gear/items and not just sit in the trade chat waiting for god knows how long to sell/buy anything.

[devout dome]

Pots should appear on the floor or make a breaking sound after drinking

[stuck perch]

The pressure in selling items comes from people wanting to do something else. If their prices are too high the item just won't sell. The AH would remove that, and you could buy the best item on the list with barely a few moments of looking. If more than one person are competing for the same item it would drive the price up. Right now the trader's post is a buyer's market. You can also ask barter with players which won't happen with an AH. Although like I said, just get into a big DaD discord community and set up an AH there.

[hardy valley]

@stuck perch bro no point of arguing with u bro you know you are wrong and the logic you use is useless os gl and have fun bro with sitting in the trade outpost all day and not playing the game

[stuck perch]

Why would I know that I'm wrong when you haven't refuted or even acknowledged any of my points?

And no, an AH wouldn't set "reasonable prices". someone just comes along and buys all the equivalent stuff to what he has to sell and relists them at a higher cost.

[nova snow]

Holy moly, high effort bad suggestion guy is back

[rapid tendon]

for the love of god nerf barbarians with horsemans axe

[hardy valley]

@stuck perch because I countered all your points, and yeah u just proved my point... the market would still be fine and not inflated bc the guy would learn the prices after and would list it for a better price next time, its called learning the market/prices especially if they add an AH with a PRICE CHECKER he would see how much to list the item for and list it...

[sly vortex]

Crossbow secondary for most classes is dumb. Getting hit for 80% of my HP with green armor as a Fighter, by a Bard at 50m is dumb. Change my mind?

[stuck perch]

You didn't counter any of my points you asserted that I was wrong without providing reasoning. You can already have your AH just not something that would replace the trade channel, it's a hardcore game, not a lets make everything convenient for players game.

[hardy valley]

lmao what bro.. u really are special

[stuck perch]

Go be a nuisance elsewhere.

[hardy valley]

@stuck perch says u bro

[stuck perch]

If you're aware of the user it's not that hard to dodge and and if you manage to dodge or block it, it requires significant time to reload during which you can punish the user or relocate.

[hardy valley]

@stuck perch look at this goof ball thinks he knows everything I gurantee u you are broke and got 0 skill lmao

[stuck perch]

If all you've got is sophistry then there's no point in me responding.

[thorn sleet]

please find the nearest wall and put your head through it. i need you to damage that brain a bit more so you cant type anymore.

[stuck perch]

discord might not be the best venue for posts that long, I'd recommend the official DaD reddit.

[limber elbow]

Should add an increase or decrease in damage depending on the time to pull the bow. If you pull the bow within 5 seconds, it will correct the basic damage of the bow and if it is less, the damage will decrease, but currently the ranger is almost the same class as the SMG gun.

[jovial swan]

It's also not the best venue considering some people enjoy trying to flame. lmao

[stuck perch]

That would be the case no matter where you take it.

[granite plinth]

Game is dead

[nova snow]

My man your suggestions are always mediocre at best and you put in way too much effort. It's like you're trying to bait the flame tbh

[strong cloak]

QWAT IF okay JUST here me out ok I WAS THINKING that maybe we should BUFF barb because BARD is TOO STRONG and if ywe just YOU KNOW, make them BARBS strongs then BARD is weak because its rOCK PAPER SCISSOR and BARB > BARD they use less RESOURCES AND COMPUTER POWER

[orchid zodiac]

Hello,
I think Rogue needs a rework.
right now rogue feels either too good or too bad, both for the rogue player and for the enemies.
When people are crying that rogue is op, its when they get one tapped by one from invis, and getting one tapped is boring.
When people are laughing at how shit rogue is, its when the rogue has no ability to jump on someone and is just a walking melee creep.

As a rogue player, i feel like half the time i am OP and destroying someone in 2seconds, which is fun because of the loot, but tbh the fight was boring as it was just 1-2 tap.
The other half i feel like the worst class when the stealth is on cooldown, alongside with weakpoint.

Rogue relies TOO much on weakpoint/rupture and stealth, basically his insane burst skillset.
When the burst is ready, you can 1 tap someone, after that you become useless for 40seconds.
The stealth is self is garbage spell, much worse than wizard's and its pretty much like invis potion with extra steps, but buffing it will make rogue even more OP right?

The problem relies on the burst.

So here is my general idea how to change rogue:

• Major nerf to the burst skillset, consider removing all together weakpoint and ambush.
• Major buff to the stealth spell, rogue is a stealth char and should have the best stealth spell, better than wizards..
• Add some kind of dashing ability, that can be used to initiate fights or escape.
• Add some kind of passive perk that weakens the enemy with each hit( reducing armor for example )

The idea is that rogue shouldn't in most cases come out of invis and kill you in 2 seconds, the fights will be more interesting and longer for both sides.
rogue will need higher skill to play around enemies poking them, and slowly killing.
It will also grant rogue more escaping mechanisms and initiations.

[quasi grotto]

THIS GUY GETS IT!!!! 👍 ✅ 💯

[late dome]

[strong cloak]

DEV PLEEEASE respond to me PLEEEEASE help PLEASE respond

nerf BARD too STRONG one shots me EVERY TIME

[stuck perch]

Why are you getting one shotted by bards? Can you elaborate? What class do you play?

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree!

[thorn sleet]

YEAH ITS INSANE HOW MANY TIMES IT HAPPENS. NERF BARD ALREADY FFS

[strong cloak]

they can use SO man ySTRONG attacks . I have NEVR been killed by anything more than BARD. This guy dev he can help BEST patch notes

[short heath]

My brother in christ, do you not know what a Rogue is? Utilizing your cooldowns in conjunction with one another to nuke an unsuspecting victim is quite literally the purpose a Rogue serves in any setting with regards to combat prowess.

[stuck perch]

The devs will see whether that's true within the data they collect. If you're the only two who this happens to, it's not going to happen.

[stuck perch]

The only problem is it feels like that's the only way to play rogue atm. That and it's too strong vs armor

[short heath]

That SHOULD be the only way to play a Rogue.

[stuck perch]

There should never be an single playstyle for a given class or that class will get bland quickly.

[short heath]

Ranger shoots arrows literally does nothing else well, nobody complains. Rogue nukes players that don't know they're there and literally does nothing else well, everyone complains.

[stuck perch]

Ranger does spear and traps, as well a handful of other minor things like tracking and better hearing.

[short heath]

Very few people use Spear proficiency, and regardless of that they are ass at melee combat comparative to other classes. Traps are a component they utilize to aid them in literally the only thing they do well, which is pew pewing arrows. Trash arguments all around. Rangers shoot things. Rogues stab things.

[stuck perch]

Ideally ranger should have a dual-wielding and a longsword playstyle but that's wishful thinking.

[rigid prawn]

Just saying, rogue has multiple playstyles if your goals shift from killing people asap. Pickpocket or lock pick thief rogue is a blast and requires very different perk setup

[stuck perch]

Yeah those are fun playstyles too but we shouldn't forget about them and reduce the rogue to only being an assassin.

[rigid prawn]

Seconded, give us our Aragorn and Drizzt rp

[stuck perch]

What do you think is the perk setup for a lock pick rogue?

[arctic lagoon]

ranger melee should def be more of a thing

[rigid prawn]

Lock pick obv, creep, stealth, shadow rush. Basically anything that can help you avoid combat so you can focus on looting. I also learn the ai in the map and try to find the optimal way through rooms where I can avoid ai combat. Makes it so your a ghost in the game and people won’t suspect you being in a room if it’s uncleared. Closing chest is a big one too

Smoke bomb instead of weak point for the gtfo situations

[short heath]

I would say I agree, but there are too many downsides currently to dual wielding that make it not worth running.

[arctic lagoon]

dual wield needs a buff, more melee weapons need to have blocks, maybe ranger if dual wielding can block with both weapons