suggestion-discussion

[lone crescent]

Still no sentence but hey the game got removed from Steam so they are 100% guilty lol

[kindred warren]

Heard it here first folks. These guys even know the truth, but refuse to realize that this. Is literally thievery

[somber wind]

Reminder that games have been pulled from steam before due to legal disputes then put back on.

[lone crescent]

You use Steam removal as proof for the theft, I hope you are trolling

[somber wind]

If you've paid attention to the court case and read the court documents as well Pinged, you'd know that Nexon is currently losing the case and has started to commit perjury by omission.

[lone crescent]

Also Ironmace sued back Nexon in Korea, Nexon is so fishy that is impossible to believe them for me

[somber wind]

They've been arguing that the employment contracts for the people at Ironmace from back when they were at Nexon are valid but in the next document ALSO to say they are invalid. Since they want it to be valid for a specific part of their contract but not for anything else LUL

Nexon has also been document bloating by referencing other cases excessively and restating points multiple times. Nexon's documents put forward is 35 pages, Ironmaces is 8. The 8 that Ironmace did dismantled basically the entire 35 pages as well.

[lone crescent]

P3 wasn't even an extraction game, how did they stole the idea? Lol

[somber wind]

Even if it was they don't own the extraction genre or the medieval concept. If you look at Dark and Darker and Tarkov next to eachother they're VERY similar games with alot of adaptions of Dungeons and Dragons.

[lone crescent]

Oh no you have a torch and Wizards use staff (real Nexon's argument)

[somber wind]

100%

[lone crescent]

@kindred warren show us your arguments and the proofs supporting your claim

[somber wind]

Ight I'm pretty sure we're too far off the topic of this chat channel lol for abit too long because of the troll so to re-rail: Wutchu think about Carry Weight being gone? I personally am very for it.@lone crescent

[soft finch]

Wdym gone it wasn't implemented

[somber wind]

So in the stats and on the UI near gold it was always there; it's gone. Which means it's been fully scrapped or it's been hidden.

[soft finch]

Sure, but it never actually did anything was just placeholder text

[somber wind]

Of course but the longer they kept it, the more the intent to add it was there.

[lone crescent]

I think that's a good thing

I guess we could confirm backpacks are coming cause they removed weight but they kept the inventory extension

[soft finch]

I would have been interested to see how it was implemented but it would probably end up causing portal ambushes

[somber wind]

I think backpacks are easily balanced by having additional bags lower movement speed and main bag replacements either increasing or decreasing movement speed based on size

So bags smaller than default would make you move faster if you replace your main bag with them.

Default bag wouldnt increase or decrease movement speed as to maintain what we have now.

[dense sand]

it's not that easy, movement speed is a huge advantage in this game, and as different classes have different movement speeds it will indeed cause deeper balancing issues

[abstract swallow]

yeah, more static penalties on gear is just gonna make things worse
there's a reason they've got a nice segmented weight bar (presumably) for normalized speeds based on carry weight usage

[lone crescent]

Or maybe no bag for normal inventory space and 2 tier of bags (cause the HUD has 2 set of additional tiles) that makes you slower and goes into cape slot

The only thing I'm sure about is that a full bag can't be looted

Or maybe you could loot it if you have empty space in cape slot, this way they could let players throw their bags before fighting

[formal dagger]

Guys how do you think, would it be nice if there was something like a lobby tavern, where you could sit with randoms, drink ale and make fun? I mean, we have a Gathering hall (or how do you spell it) , but now it's just a chat for Lfg and nothing more, so i think something like this would be cool.

[somber wind]

Thoughts on scaling weight? Items themselves DON'T have weight, it instead it treats each filled slot as an amount of movement speed reduction but ONLY if you're filling slots that are more than the default amount of slots? So if you filled the current inventory it'd do nothing and if you had a bigger bag, if you only filled the size of the current bag it'd still do nothing.

[abstract swallow]

it's doable but doesn't fix any of the lacking areas of the current inventory and inventory system (gp-per-tile heavily skewing extracted loot, treasure often being functionally worthless, static -MS gear penalties, etc) that just using implementing Max Weight and scaling overencumbrance penalties would

[somber wind]

Idk I really really dislike a weight system personally. I like having static numbers so it's easer to build around.

[abstract swallow]

we already have a weight system of static penalties, and the prototype tile system alone won't translate well to bags and equipslots unless they're just gonna make resoursefulness classes straight up better at carrying loot out than everyone else
which as a Ranger main I'm fine with, but I'm not supposed to say that part out loud

[agile heath]

Should add loot bags that only carry treasure and gold/silver, auto loots those things into it and when dropped the whole bag drops for the next player to pick up, takes 4 slots in a square

Can have higher space based on rarity but not some ridiculous increase maybe an 8 slot variance between grey and purple.
Would prevent them from being some huge variable in how much loot someone could carry out in addition to them only being used for treasure/currency

[rich iron]

With food soon coming to DaD with the next playtest possibly, They should add a fullness bar or icon from games such as project zomboid or don't starve together. And with this fullness bar they should implement some system that stops the player just spam eating 10 pieces of bread giving a minor debuff like engorgement causing slower atk speed/casting time/movement speed. I feel as this addition would give the eating system a little balance and give DaD a little realism but i would have to hear thoughts on it 👍

[lone crescent]

I don't want any realism in the game and I think devs agree with me

[rich iron]

i just mean a small bit of realism keeps the game fresh is all but i agree i wanna keep the game still fantasylike and not fully realistic ofc

[lone crescent]

Realism is the opposite of fun for me, it works only in survival games
Usually when the devs adds realism to their games It fails, only a little niche likes it

[rich iron]

not everyone can have the same opinion but if you disagree that's alright just wanna hear from everyone about the feature

[obtuse lichen]

Hunger system in 12.5 minutes rounds lmao

[glacial sphinx]

Don't really think the suggestion makes the game much more fun, the thing being punished doesnt really seem interesting enough that I want to pay attention to it while delving. And I think realism isn't needed anywhere where it doesn't serve the gameplay

[obtuse lichen]

It's not tarkov with 40+ minutes per 1 raid

Food will probably be added as an alternative healing and that's it

keep the hunger system away please

[glacial sphinx]

The game doesn't really need many more systems to "manage". The strong point is the simple premise, go through dungeons with players and pve in it and collect loot. That system works and I don't think we need to focus peoples attention on other stuff than listening for enemies and looking around for loot and good engagements.

[rich iron]

Well It'd be a interesting feature it doesn't have to be a minor debuff. And we'd have to see how food works when they release it in next playtest

[obtuse lichen]

I don't wanna waste my time or money at unecessary hunger system

[obtuse lichen]

I wanna fight loot fight loot and not eat fight loot rest fight loot eat

[glacial sphinx]

I would guess that food is going to give recoverable HP (via rest).

[rich iron]

atleast from what i've seen in videos you can just rapidly eat food it wouldn't make sense to just eat 5 pieces of bread then you just have full health

[obtuse lichen]

probably

[glacial sphinx]

So if thats true maybe it takes away your concerns also, since you still need to rest

[rich iron]

boys we are going to have have to wait until playtest to really get a full answer though so i can really say is

[obtuse lichen]

Maybe it's going to buff healing speed while resting

Without a campfire or something like that because last pt new resting mechanic was taking a while to get some recoverable health back

[lone crescent]

This, maybe you eat while resting

[obtuse lichen]

Yes you eat and heal faster

Also get spells and skills faster

Or maybe get some buffs with high quality food like ale gives strength

[fathom bolt]

Eat maggot bread

[lone crescent]

I mean maybe you could eat while resting without campfire

[olive kettle]

Soggy cold food enjoyer
My group is bringing an entire roast

[obtuse lichen]

On g

[abstract swallow]

resting buffs outside of/enhanced by campfires sounds great to me, fits in with the game's emphasis on 'endurance adventuring' and supply management
much better than a hunger/thirst bar, the game doesn't need slowing down that much

[lone crescent]

Campfire is fast enough, food should make you recover the resting HP only

Instead of resting for 3 minutes you rest for 30 seconds with food or something like that

[formal wadi]

This is something I've been thinking about for a while and would be a pretty cool way to add food.

Maybe you can purchase "meal kits" that you can cook on a fire as well like in the video.

[runic hollow]

How can I make a suggestion inside the suggestion channel? Or is it closed since the game is not up?

[gray skiff]

They announced that food was coming? Did they show it in a video or something? the animations at the beginning of the new video are very likely just cosmetics though. Just like you had the cosmetic in playtest 4 to roast food on the fire

[rich iron]

it's been shown many times in playtests trailers

[gray skiff]

I mean I only saw some mouldy bread as a misc non intractable item. can you link a video with a timestamp?

[rich iron]

yeah give me a second 👍

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTjXz_VCxog&t=232s 5:05 mouldy bread item

[rich iron]

and i should've just said it was shown twice in the warlock reveal video then the updated ruins video

[gray skiff]

Tbh I dont think this means food items are coming. to me it just looks like more random junk items to sell like the skulls in the newest video. Could be wrong

[rich iron]

it's shown again in ruins video of mouldy food it's the rarity type that determines the food quality and both the food items in the videos were common items

[gray skiff]

All loot items have rarities though. If it was usable item it should have some text explaining its effect. if the effect will get added later I just think its strange they would already add it before giving it a use.

[amber rain]

how do you make a suggestion

[gray skiff]

Cant right now. Just post what you have in mind here

[peak ermine]

One thing that really bothers me is that while players only take 3-4 hits to die to a skeleton, a lot of human sized mobs, and in hell especially mobs start becoming health sponges that regular players cant deal with

[amber rain]

Based on the content in the Warlock video it seems like a very melee focused class with some debuff and DoTs it can throw that seem very underwhelming aswell also seem hard to imagine competing well against the other classes in the game currently, just as Bard did on release as a support role against cleric. I think Warlock should instead be reimagined as a caster class instead of a mix between both melee and caster. I think focusing on an approach closer to the class in DnD 5e would be a better approach, focusing around Eldritch blast as its main form of damage and utility but customizable by a selection of skills available to the player (Push enemies, pull enemies, deal +dmg per stat mod, increased range, etc). Not only do I think this makes warlock more viable inside the array of classes in the game as a viable option but I also think it could allow for a lot of cutomization and builds from the player side based on playstyle that could work very well. This also allows the devs to apply some already implemented features in the warlock class to the the skill tree to be applied on Eldritch Blast itself, aswell as adding new ones based on listed above. I personally think this path of the class would be a much better option for it coming into the game and would breathe enough uniqueness to make it different from the rest of the classes while holding its own instead of sitting in-between melee and caster.

(This post is obviously all made based off information shown in the video and not off any gameplay)

[prisma sonnet]

yo has anyone suggested a monk class to the devs?

[terse cove]

I suggested letting uus play buut no response

[peak ermine]

wow incredible. i wonder why

[somber wind]

It's planned

[prisma sonnet]

WOOOO LETS GOO W DEVS

[somber wind]

Stats on the stat sheet should turn Yellow if they are at the cap.

[lone crescent]

@rich iron I don't think mouldy bread could be considered food

@amber rain we know nothing about the Warlock, how you can say he is weak lol

[keen dove]

What kind of curses have people recommend before?

I'd wanna have curses that are fun to work around. Some dump stuff that's generally a gimic instead of just stats debuffs. While the number crunch is fun, I think variety is important.

[glacial sphinx]

Think heal stop is commonly suggested, sounds decent to me if its about 3 seconds duration or something. For more gimmicky things I guess they could do some vision distorting stuff, maybe reducing light levels or causing you to see allies as monsters.

[lone crescent]

The one "allies as monsters" could make funny content, but has 0 competitive value

[placid canopy]

If all players look the same it could hold value. Can't distinguish allies from enemies or focus a specific key target

[coral merlin]

“The magic bestowed on a warlock ranges from minor but lasting alterations to the warlock’s being (such as the ability to see in darkness or to read any language) to access to powerful spells. Unlike bookish wizards, warlocks supplement their magic with some facility at hand-to-hand combat. They are comfortable in light armor and know how to use simple weapons.”( warlock has always been melee/caster for TOO LONG shitty devs have made them full caster because they just don’t make melee focused combat ( first person especially) I AM SO GLAD iron mace is doing them justice, I fully support the LONGSWORD LOCK and believe you are stretching VERY far by assuming they won’t fit into the gameplay from watching a 9 minute video. It will fit perfectly, I promise. ALSO they will probably have casting related perks that allow for a more casting focused build 🙂

[split ore]

A place could be in hell (like a Shrine of Soul bound, Shrine of Alchemy or Greed ) where you can store item/s if you pay money or get a depuff (like downgrading the item by 1 grade or 2 (if you die while having depuff) if the higher the rarity the item the more it cost and it does not need to be money could be something of equivalent value (ex a blue axe = 150 gold jewels equal to buying from trader if you want to save a item) the depuff could increase damage intake if you die with the item or do not make it out with the item while having depuff it loses 2 rarity if you make it out with the depuff while having the item you can remove the depuff with a trader service

[lone crescent]

The game doesn't need more ways to save loot other then extracting

[split ore]

you keep the item in your invintory and it is 1 item max per shrine and 1 insurance per dive

[coral merlin]

This is meant to be a hardcore game, the second they start adding SAVES that goes away

[split ore]

is tarkov a hardcore game

also it has its downsides you could lose money it could not be worth it and it is a 1 time use players can take the item too

[coral merlin]

Irrelevant

[fathom bolt]

this isnt tarkov lol

[coral merlin]

Might as well add a hearthstone where you can just TP out of the dungeon one time use but hey it’s really expensive… SHM

[split ore]

a item is diffrent then a players life

[coral merlin]

Well this shrine idea would make that true, as it stands your items are only as good as long as your alive.. meaning they are one and the same.

[split ore]

can i talk to you while party 0 chat while i play val

[coral merlin]

I’m working rn and can only text sry but I’ll be off in about 6 hrs and I’m down 🙂

[split ore]

cool

[split ore]

i take that back i did not read over what you said

[coral merlin]

It just seems like a lot of extra coding to add what is basically a prison pocket slot in your inventory. I get that there’s more steps and downsides, but it just goes against the spirit of the game, I don’t think there was even one time when I lost something short of a legendary that even mattered in the slightest.

The idea of oh a blue axe let me find a shrine to store that and loose 150g just seems redundant

[split ore]

if it was only avaliable in hell then would that make it better also the axe was a example

[coral merlin]

Not really cause typically is only yours and maybe another squad in hell, you really only die to the boss, getting screwed by zone or dying to mobs. If your in hell already your pretty safe to escape.

If you think your going to die ( why you would use the shrine ) it doesn’t make sense to clear a room to use it

[split ore]

it was more so your team excaped it was just you and you had good stuff

[coral merlin]

So like if you got screwed and had an item you wanted but are going to die?

[split ore]

if it was just me im am probablie going to die

[coral merlin]

Sounds like you just need to get better my friend, and I don’t mean that in a rude way. Being alone in hell is extremely lucrative and safe.

[split ore]

im a cleric main and always zone ends in boss room

[coral merlin]

Although that might be different with those berserker and such :p

[coral merlin]

Oh brother you need to try other classes, the game plays a lot different to each class

[split ore]

always a team player if not enough portals i run with the teamate who would have not made it also i sometimes play ranger

[coral merlin]

You should play with other team players too then, just say hey can you make room for this blue for me (if they are getting out and your dying there shouldn’t be an issue lol)

[split ore]

im the one who opens the portals

[coral merlin]

Group mental synergy is really important

[split ore]

and i use resurrections handy when 2 people remain on team 1 died and circle is closing

[split ore]

we got off topic so fast

[coral merlin]

I mean it sounds like you got screwed over by the people you play with so much that you want the devs to add an item saving feature… I may be wrong but I think your should just find other people to play with, that won’t force you to be a heal bot:)

[split ore]

na i think it is more cool and more shrines would be cool

[coral merlin]

I agree with more shrines being cool, I disagree with this particular one tho, good chatting with ya 🙂

[split ore]

ween i said this in the discord we got off topic and just started talking about curse ideas

[lone crescent]

@split ore we can do as much speculation as we want but devs said no assurance cause losing loot is more fun

[tulip sandal]

Yo guys wat you think about Voodoo class, man with dagger and voodoo doll. Thanks to doll you can mark somebody and deal more dmg to him by attacks. You would use spells as voodoo but only on person you marked, spells like blind somebody in some way, maybe some little dmg, slow somebody Something like dat. The best thing probably would be dat his all spells r aimless, they r always go for marked man cuz they r curses. He will be strictly debuffer, assasin behind tank back, ye i know there is warlock but voodoo lad i think is pretty Interesting idea

[split ore]

class idk skill mabye

[lone crescent]

Like Sciaman from Diablo? That's cool. Auto aim spells seems op though

[tulip sandal]

Idk sciaman from diablo sorry, ye auto aim maybe is kinda op, but still mainly debuff spells and maybe range of 15 meter or less you can have mark on somebody

[lone crescent]

In Diablo he summons zombies, make frogs rain, and torments enemies with spirits

[tulip sandal]

Interesting, but i was thinking about classic blind voodoo doll than somebody will have eye problems

[feral gull]

Would be great if there was a keybind to pickup all throwables in the vicinity like a 2meter radius - arrows/throwing knives/throwing axes

[dense sand]

naw its better that you gotta take the time and look at it

[quiet stone]

More realistic, like gathering supplies and pulling out your arrows

[high cloak]

Not sure if anyone has suggested this but I think it would be a cool if there was a dungeon with more levels that rewards tenacious parties that are well prepared.
The first few levels are lite on enemies and loot and easier to navigate while the bottom ones have a lot of treasure and harder monsters. The further down you go the bigger the risk you're taking.
With the maps I played the 2 level system is fun but most people queue for the first level and leave. Imagine being on a the 3rd level and running into another party, the stakes would be even higher since it's not as easy to get there. It would also would be cool to prepare with more campfires and potions and risk going deeper and deeper for better rewards. Kind of fulfills that adventurer party gearing up and setting off on a longer adventure.

Also I like a lot of systems in the game, it's really fun to play and learn but one thing I hate is the vendors. I think that system sucks in Tarkov and it's just as annoying and ugly here. Money bags should hold way more coin and silver coins seem really useless.

[patent mauve]

I'm pretty sure the first day of the playtest 5 had a 3 tier dungeon.

[high cloak]

👀 I think I missed that one

[fringe forge]

The ruins were t1, the current t1 was t2 but had upgraded mobs, most being red or black on that level and then standard hell in t3 but it had no normal mobs, all red and black

But everyone was sick of playing ruins for 5 minutes only to get to the next level where the real fun starts but then there would be no action on that level due to people dying during the ruins stage

[somber wind]

* Equipable items can be found Cursed.
* Items that are Cursed show that they are Cursed in the inventory by having a red outline (Cursed items on the ground also have a red outline and produce a small amount of red light).
* Cursed Items have an additional modifier called a curse that is separate from the rest of the modifiers similar to how unique item's special modifier is represented.
* A Cursed Item's curse is not revealed until you extract with the item (this doesn't disable their effect, you just don't get to know what it is).
* A Cursed Item's curse is active even if not equipped as long as it's in your inventory.
* Cursed Items rolled modifiers minimum and maximum roll is increased by 25% of the Max rounded up to the nearest whole number (Example: Weapon Damage's minimum roll is +1 and Maximum is +3 so with this it's Minimum Roll would be +2 and Maximum +4. This is because 25% of +3 is 0.75 then if rounded up would make it 1, this is then added to the Minimum and Maximum Roll).

Example Curses:
-Upon pickup or start of Adventure, Item is equipped. Cannot be unequipped during an Adventure.
-Interactable objects will occasionally sound like they're being interacted with (Ex: Doors making the sound of them opening or a Chest sounding like it's been opened).
-If you are on a floor that can have Red Portals, all Portals look and function like Red Portals for you.
-Skill cooldown durations are increased by 10 seconds.
-Found loot has a 10% chance to downgrade it's rarity by 1 stage upon pickup.
-Your footstep sounds are 50% louder for enemy players.
-You cannot see teammate health or if they're alive or dead.
-You have a 1 in 12 chance to fail at interacting with an object (Meaning you can attempt to close a door and when the progress bar is finished it just doesn't happen and makes a failure noise).
-You cannot use Shrines.
-This item cannot be traded to another player at the Market Place.
-Receive half healing. Stomach grumbles at random.
-You take an additional 10% damage when hit in the head.
-Movement Speed is Capped at X%.
-Traps deal an additional 100% damage to you.
-The Swarm deals an additional 200% damage to you.
-Using a hotbar item binds you while it's being used.
-All potion liquid coloring is grey (So Health, Shield, Clarity potions are only distinguishable by hovering over them in your inventory; you cannot tell what is what on a player's belt).
-You have an outline to hostile players (meaning people can see the outline of your character in pitch black darkness).

Tried to come up with a fully fleshed out idea for how Cursed items could work. Thoughts?

[viral hawk]

i could see some of these working i love some of the negative curse ideas you have

[somber wind]

Thanks! I tried to make the curses things you couldn't just get more stats to fix and had to actually deal with while also being unique.

Some of them for sure can still be mitigated somewhat like the additional self headshot damage, trap damage, swarm damage and half healing but I think they would still be impactful since mitigating them wouldn't be done directly.

[glacial sphinx]

Not sure if the "not revealed until extracting" part will be meaningful when you are actively undergoing those effects. Some of them I guess you wouldn't immediately know but others you would. I think it could be enough to not be able to drop them after pickup and just see the effect. Overall the idea can be cool.

In terms of actual effects I think the ones that cause you to make more noise etc are interesting. I'm not too fond of the reduced arrows or +10 seconds CD one, those seem a bit too specificly annoying for some while doing nothing to others. Red portal one is very cool, soul destruction is cool. Heal reduction is okay. Loot downgrade imo is too harsh. Swarm and trap one I'm not too fond of either, although I like the swarm one more than the trap one in terms of theme/feel. I'd just make it +100% though.

[somber wind]

So I felt like the "fun" of them was you figuring out how the curse works and adapting to it but potentially not fully understanding it until you have it revealed; especially for the first time.

The reduced arrows one I do agree might be abit too much even with +25% to modifiers. CD one I think depends, 10 might be too much but 5 felt like it'd be too little. Loot downgrade I don't think is all that harsh and if anything abit forgiving since there is no direct downside to how you actually fight making the weapon just better than it's non-cursed alternative. I don't think anyone would be fond of the Swarm or Trap one but those can be decently mitigated by either just not entering the swarm or being more careful respectively; again like the loot downgrade they'd be some of the most forgiving.

The point of the curses is to genuinely be something that modifies your playstyle, if traps become excessively deadly you will treat them as such. Same for the swarm. I think the trap damage bonus going down to +100% would be fine but I think the way that swarm damage ticks maybe +200% would be ideal.

[glacial sphinx]

The issue I have with the arrows one is that 1. it mostly makes playing more annoying rather than changing how you play. 2. It doesn't feel like it makes sense thematically. 3. It only affects arrow users. For the CD increase the issue is that 1. It only affects CD skill users, not 2x memory casters for example. And 2. A flat CD increase disproportionately affects short CDs. So if anything I'd make that percentage based.

Loot downgrade means you pick up a cursed item and suddenly all your legendary and epic lich loot becomes epic or rare instead. That feels a bit annoying to have to deal with if your group really wanted to do Lich. I can understand wanting to change playstyle, but I don't know if I think the traps one does it. You already dont want to get hit by traps, so maybe you take extra care but I'm not sure it changes much, and thematically for a curse to do that it feels a bit specific and gamey compared to something more general like "take 15% more damage".

I do like the overal suggestion though. Could add more effects like 1. Marked: Monsters are especially drawn toward attacking you. 2. Bloodthirsty: You slowly start to take damage when you haven't killed for a while. 3. Restless: When you rest there is a chance to spawn a wraith " (with an hidden internal CD on the effect). Stuff like that fits the theme of a curse I think

[faint onyx]

Hell forged X bars: A large furnace i the shape of a demons head spawns into the Hell level. Placing ore or combinations of ores allow inside and turning the furnace on allows you to smelt Hell forged X bars. These empowered bars can be used to craft powerful items.

[somber wind]

Arrows one I agree with you on. CD I see your point. The loot downgrade is only for loot picked up; so from a chest similar to how the loot upgrade works on bar and the loot downgrade is only a 10% chance.

For marked I feel like that can be actually useful so I'd rather that effect be on a Named Pavise tbh. It'd be amazing for tanking for your group. Bloodthirsty I feel like would affect playstyle but might be too frantic. Restless I feel like might be abit too generic and would probably be farmed and also be a benefit unless the wraith always has no loot.

[glacial sphinx]

Well you gotta keep in mind you don't know what you'll get when you pick it up, so it might be the fighter picking up the Marked one or it might be the cleric or a wizard. Or it could be the heal reduction one and then maybe you don't want it on the fighter.

Besides that I don't think its necessarily bad that a curse can in some cases be exploited to your benefit. That's interesting gameplay. Farming the wraith one could be problematic which is why it has to be fairly random and I added the internal CD.

[somber wind]

Yeah of course but at the end of the day, when the item is identified it's now apart of making builds and will be sold on the market. My worry is that this would introduce what is functionally named items to Common rarity.

Although it's interesting gameplay I don't think anyone wants Cursed Items to become mandatory for certain playstyles. Named items already will be providing this late game but having an additional layer if Named items can be Cursed would genuinely be annoying, it's one of the reasons that Anointments in Borderlands 3 and rolled Sockets in Path of Exile make people so angry.

[glacial sphinx]

Yeah that's a fair point, not sure if you even want cursed items to be tradeable. Maybe they can be self use only or maybe they can be purified removing benefit and negative. Otherwise I think they end up mandatory anyway when their specific negative effect can be mostly ignored by one class.

Soul destroyed on death would be "mandatory" for anyone playing solo. Extra loud footsteps would probably be fine on any full plate wearer. Movespeed capped at X is fine for anyone under that movespeed. Potion one is okay for colourblind people (kidding, I know this isn't how it works). Etc

[somber wind]

So the problem with them not being tradable would mean that the market would start to die the deeper into the season it got instead of it growing due to named items and attempting to get perfect rolls since there wouldn't be much to obtain other than cursed gear by that point.

Soul destroyed on death being mandatory is for sure something I was thinking about and I would argue it shouldn't exist; I have made these ideas at 2am. Extra loud footsteps would be good on plate yeah, I feel like 50% louder though would pierce a few walls and pull quite alot of players. Move speed being capped is fairly strong in that move speed is absolutely everything at this point, it's better than Armor rating for all but Fighter and late game Cleric but even then it's still exceptionally important.

Movement speed is why Wizard strips down. Armor Rating past 60 AR isn't worth it for any class that cant at minimum exceed 180 AR. It's genuinely better to run Boots, Gloves and if your class has inherent stat head pieces a helmet and not put on pants or a chest piece.

[glacial sphinx]

I got a feeling the gear inflation thing will not be too crazy. Most players aren't that hardcore and will not have insane gear even near the end of a season 2-3 months in. By design like 60% of the players entering a lobby will not be able to exit it alive. So the game always deletes a ton of gear.

I don't question movespeed being very important I just said if its capped to a number then anyone below that number already is unaffected. I guess if the number is low enough that won't be anyone though, so then it would always be a negative yeah.

[somber wind]

Actually here, this is how AR works to get some more info on that:
https://i.imgur.com/zoayyie.png

[glacial sphinx]

Yeah I know how AR works

[somber wind]

Alright. That said, the goal really would be to keep cursed items having outright downsides that aren't mitigatable for the most part so it's more of a build decision. Side-grading and such.

[glacial sphinx]

Fair enough, yeah dont think going into specifics is even that important, IM can figure those out. As an idea i think its interesting

[harsh depot]

I often play with bards and the problem is the din they make with their instruments I think that music that replaces the sound of the player's footsteps we hear those of monsters would be good enough to fool the enemy

[flint flint]

if they didnt think about something like this, they should have a hideout type thing similar to other extraction-looter games, where you upgrade it for benefits etc

[rugged eagle]

Nah I wish it was 3 tier once you went down from ruins there was no red portal in crypts

[patent mauve]

I'm pretty sure it was 3 tier, but only for the first day. They added crypts back as its own map the next day after people complained.

[rugged eagle]

I played on the first day and got down to crypts solo multiple times and didn't see a single down portal so I'm pretty sure it wasn't 3 tier

Unless I got incredibly unlucky and missed every down portal

[harsh depot]

[patent mauve]

https://youtu.be/eDzw1FfsR7A
6* hours into the video they go B2 and then B3

It was the first day so most people weren't trying to risk it all in the crypts and didn't know it was 3 tiers so they left at the first sign of portals. It's another reason why they swapped it back after day 1.

[olive kettle]

it was highroller only tho

[patent mauve]

Legit forgot about it being HR only

[rugged eagle]

Oh you meant how highroller would take you straight to B2 then you could go down to B3?

I thought you meant from B1 to B2 and then to B3 as three tier

[patent mauve]

High roller ruins had 3 tiers, normal had 2

[olive kettle]

there was only one highroller option which took you to 2nd tier, ruins wasnt high roller

[spare grotto]

Would have been cool if dmg was rolled like a classic tabletop rpg. Every battle is a gamble

[olive kettle]

weapon damage and stat modifiers are already varied and there are sourspots on weapons plus 0.5-1.5x modifiers for location hit so it functionally is a gamble

[soft finch]

No, God no

[quiet stone]

There should be a channel for holding the line.

[strong cedar]

So true, can’t even talk in general, got to go somewhere else

[quiet stone]

I don’t mind it, but some people complain about it. Also it would be cool to have a whole channel to see how long the chain could go, and seeing everyone’s unique line holding styles

[graceful frost]

No

[abstract swallow]

actually this has potential, I'll hear you out

[scarlet snow]

Duo Q would be amazing, it grows tiring only to play with a best friend and your third is a useless bot generated by chatGPT. In a game where you loose everything it just seems like a blatent disadvantage to even play with just one friend.

[lethal owl]

Gotta go ahead and agree with this one 👍

[abstract swallow]

I'd like it if there were some incentive for queueing under strength, I loved the variety of groups you'd get pre-GC in crypts

[glacial sphinx]

You can just queue as 2 into crypts already. And they shouldn't add duo queue where you exclusively fight duos because you'll lose the nice mix of group makeups in crypts even more.

[somber wind]

I feel like the game as it intends to be right now should be Seasonal with wipes but it should do what PoE does where when a Seasonal is over your character instead of being deleted gets moved to a Permanent server that never wipes. Most would only play Seasonal but for those who want a Permanent server or feel disheartened by losing their gear at the end of a wipe would have access to this; this would also be good for the Permanent server (Seasonal characters moving to Permanent) as it would allow new players access to the Permanent server without getting destroyed by the pre-established player base on said server as they would have built their character in the Seasonal free from the hyper endgame geared players in the Permanant server.

[inner thorn]

Players achieve very gamechanging gear for very short time in last run

In another words, you need to wipe it every week to remain at least some feel of newbie friendly server

[lethal bison]

Imagine if at the end of a season, the game records your characters stats such as K/D Ratio, Total Gold in Stash and other things and adds that to a User Profile headed under that class which people/friends could view or compare stats to yours

[somber wind]

We already know that loot rate is going to be significantly slower and seasonal wipes. The loot rate was only fast because the tests were short, this has been confirmed. This is why Loot Prestige Rate is being added to the game and Luck potions.

[inner thorn]

Then amount of hight geared players will decrease naturally by players dying, thus deleting part of gear from existence after no one pick them up and returning them to ungeared class.

So no need for wipes

[somber wind]

We already know wipes are happening, I'm not suggesting wipes. I'm suggesting permanent servers as an option and for seasonal characters to become permanent server characters when the season ends.

[abstract swallow]

I think that could be something that's good for the game, but there's no way they could get away with implementing it before release
managing a legacy league would be a lot of overhead, especially for managing changes to content that would otherwise be wiped

[placid canopy]

Nobody plays hc perm league in poe and that's the equivalent league to a perm league here. It would only ever be juiced players in max legacy gear playing

Probably end up just being a storage league to show off neat things you saved on top of encouraging people not to bring in cool stuff at the end of wipes

[soft finch]

How to Immediately divide the player base further and cause empty lobbies

[lusty tendon]

I think an interesting suggestion would be shoving. I think it should work on npcs but idk about actual people. Like if a skeleton shoved you up into a wall and you couldn’t get out, you could shove him out of the way to run to safety.

[olive kettle]

too strong for current map design and AI

[lone crescent]

Well that's the only consistent way to die to PvE after you learned the patterns

[somber wind]

"Further" when we had 90k people online on the torrent only test and 140k+ online before it.

[lusty tendon]

true

[soft finch]

Sure? Not relevant.

[ripe turtle]

What do you think if Warlock is able to dual wield melee weapons?

[placid canopy]

Not really a reason to ever dual wield. It makes you so slow and you should probably only be attacking with 1 weapon anyway

It's not good mid-lategame, but fighters can get away with it cuz they can hold an offhand dagger that only has -10ms and they have perk support

[lone crescent]

You could hold a Falchion with a Crystal Ball with melee modifiers and there you go

[placid canopy]

That also works if you wanna take the movespeed penalty. Balls are heavy lol

[olive kettle]

but it's not a weapon, you should be able to yeet it

[abstract swallow]

a shove and blockshove would be nice but sujak is right that it would let you Jester on the AI

[coral merlin]

In the newest hell video, right at the end when he’s jumping around the hell hounds he doesn’t get stuck mid air… instead it seems like the momentum allows him to skirt around them. There’s a chance the collision is “fixed” and will feel a lot better 🙂

[somber wind]

We absolutely need to beable to see which Hotbar item is next like we did on the old hud. It's such a big problem not being able to.

[grim moth]

Just wondering if you guys are working on the aimbot that the crossbow skeletons had lol

[opaque heart]

Does anyone know how you submit a suggestion?

[compact barn]

I second the yeet the crystal ball idea

[quaint hemlock]

Not sure how to make a suggestion, but I'll post this here instead and see what you guys think.

Unfortunately the warlock as it stands appears really weak. They must wear cloth, no shield, no mobility or CC/slows of any kind and the damage on their spells is extremely low. I don't see any situation where equally skilled and geared warlocks can take on any other class fairly. They will be run down by rogues, fighters and barbarians, while being unable to escape from rangers, clerics or wizards who pelt them with more damage from ranged than the warlock can output.

That being said, I feel like the warlock mechanics are a good start. Using health as a resource can really set them apart, but they just need more spell and skills to level out their weaknesses. Misty step as a medium-short CD escape could lead to plenty of interesting outplays while letting your DoTs tick a target down.

My biggest ask would be a spammable (or extremely short CD) ranged magic option like eldritch blast. The damage rotation of putting up debuffs and spamming eldritch blast is an iconic warlock class fantasy. This would let the warlock be a more DPS, and less bursty, ranged magic option compared to the Wizard.

The "hexblade" could also work, but they would need a lot of survivability options for being in melee range with fighters, rogues and barbarians who can just run them down. Armor of agathys is a really iconic DnD warlock spell that would give a temporary HP shield after killing a unit. This would pair nicely with the passive regen the warlock is gaining from the damage over time siphoning it has. Shield could also work well here, allowing the warlock to have short duration, high damage resistance to balance out its squishy cloth armor.

[lone crescent]

@quaint hemlock here we go again...
Discussing about Warlock is pointless, we know nothing about the class

[quaint hemlock]

there are plenty of videos that have pulled enough relevent info from the video reveal by IM

[lone crescent]

Yes and? You think Warlock will have only 3 spells?

[quaint hemlock]

do you think we aren't allowed to talk about something in development? what about bard that was half finished in last PT? are we not allowed to talk about that either?

[lone crescent]

Of course you are allowed to talk, but you shouldn't cause you don't have all information about the class

I said the same about Bard in the last months, everyone were complaining about bad buffs and bad damage, now he got more STR and the new buffs looks insane

[cerulean fossil]

I want this sound in a game in one or other way https://youtube.com/shorts/iGaO9SBnFWE?feature=share

[quaint hemlock]

well you are certainly entitled to that opinion, but giving feedback at all stages of development is important in my opinion. Ofc I understand there isn't all the information, we probably don't have all the information that will in all of the other classes by release either. The burden is on us, the testers and observers, to give feedback where possible.

[lone crescent]

I agree to this

What I'm saying is that we should talk only about things we know, we know 3 spells, the weapons he can use, 1 perk and 1 skill. These are the things we should discuss, and they are not nearly enough to know if the class is strong or not or to know how good he could perform in a fight

It's like taking a Wizard with just Zap, Magic Missiles and Light Orb and based only on these information asking for a buff

[stuck perch]

Should spell descriptions contain the base duration, total duration (before target effects) or both?

[olive kettle]

base

[stuck perch]

Why not both? Something like 4secs (6.34secs) would work no?

[olive kettle]

not neccesarry

[hollow stone]

I’m sure this has been brought up at one point or another, but I know looting and inventory management can be a bit tedious. I was thinking at the least for your own inventory in game there should be an auto sort function.

Essentially it moves all your inventory to one side and stacks it neatly so you have the most open available units of inventory space. It would save players “tetris time” and in battle situations this could be crucial.

The only argument against it I see is that inventory management plays into the hardcore aspect of the game but that seems like an odd reason not to have it

[lone crescent]

The only change that is needed for me is the priority from left>>>right to left up>>>left down@hollow stone

[quaint hemlock]

I would be down for auto sort if it wasn't instant, but took a certain amount of time doing each item individually

[hollow stone]

An auto sort based on resourcefulness could be interesting. Also based on the amount of items sorted. Probably needs to be as fast or faster than sorting manually though

[ruby topaz]

how do you post a suggestion?

<@&1048757675934089300> help

[quiet stone]

Add an “argument about law” or “debate” channel for the people who keep arguing or debating law and other things… please, there is too much in general, and off topic isn’t the place for it either.

[abstract swallow]

Sorry, until the game is back online all channels will remain PvP Enabled. -The Management

[gray skiff]

cant rn

[solar falcon]

good to see you're still camping it up here

[lone crescent]

?

[solar falcon]

you're always in this channel man

[lone crescent]

Yeah, I need copium

[ripe turtle]

How's our logo, ladies and gentlemen?

[real trellis]

Wrong channel champ

[ripe turtle]

Is it?

[real trellis]

If you're talking about the r/place logo there's #rplace-discussion ? or did you mean something else

[ripe turtle]

Just joking. I accidentally placed the comment here.

[grave veldt]

Haha it happens

[ripe turtle]

https://www.tolkiendrim.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Echelle-des-personnages.jpg in tolkien universe, dwarves aren't that short.

[mild hill]

!suggest having a treat in the shop that you can get once every however long so you can give otto a treat in the pregame lobby. If not given to him when game starts the treat destroys and thats that if you gave it to him nothing happens you just giving otto a treat. (dont matter the shape or you could use the community for inspiration could be a church with 9 on it who knows})

[foggy galleon]

anyone got news on a release

[somber wind]

Straight up I still disagree to this day that Bard was bad before. Everyone was just bad at bard.

Permanant Melee Pacify with a Wizard or Cleric was an insane tech that was absolutely unfair. (You would do this with 2 bards and 1 Wizard/Cleric)

Ideally you'd go for Wizard due to mediation being available as they would be your main damage dealer.

With infinite pacify for alot of rooms you'd also just beable to loot it without fighting any NPCs as well. Any rooms you couldn't you'd just turn all the enemies on eachother and keep that on permanently.

If you needed to deal with a Wizard/Cleric on another team, just distance your Wizard abit and have the bards close in for a Dissonance to silence them.

For all of this you needed a coordinated team and for everyone to do call outs in the discord however so it was very high effort.

[proven summit]

!suggest A potential separate/primary seasonal wipe mechanic.

[somber wind]

@proven summit Suggestions are turned off until next test. That said, I agree with you lol

[proven summit]

Ah mb, fair

[somber wind]

I'll just copy this from bard chat since I was just talking about it:

The best solution for people feeling lost after a wipe is how PoE does seasonals. Seasonals and Wipes are really no different from each other at all. There would be a permanent server and a seasonal server, the seasonal server works as it does now with wipes but any character created on seasonal becomes a permanent character when the season is over. This is good for multiple reasons, for people who just want to play they can go to permanent and ones who want to build without dealing with endgame players or just like the roguelike run feeling of seasonals themselves go for seasonal and when a season is over you now have a head start in the permanent by not having base gear. It's the best of both worlds.

[proven summit]

Yeah I played a lot of Diablo3 and it made coming back to the game very enjoyable.

Primary non-wiped gamemode was unplayable for me (super nerds grinding max gear) but seasons were great fun.

Keen to see what ironmace do regardless, clearly they’re for the people which is a good start

[somber wind]

Of course and that's why characters migrating from Seasonal to Permanent actually helps Permanent be less hard to pierce into.

[proven summit]

Agree completely

[somber wind]

Also there's lots of players who care far too much about their loot stash that will become disillusioned with seasonal and stop playing without a permanent.

That said I think just like for PoE it's 2 completely different mindsets but catering to both without changing anything about how the game actually plays is ideal.

The player base is for sure large enough for it as well, in the torrent tests we had 90k+ players; before when it was on steam it was nearly double that because of how accessible it was.

[abstract swallow]

Pacify Gaming was a meme and you know it, your 15-STR-havin' plate-lackin (rear end) was going to get absolutely trounced the moment you ran into anyone smart enough to hold an input for the pacify reset or that had a ranged weapon.
It's purely a pubstomping gimmick, but at least it's a funny one.

[somber wind]

There was no reset if you had 2 bards, you timed in discord yours going down and the other going up so you always had roughly 1.5 seconds of overlap of the songs

[lone crescent]

@somber wind Bard was bad before yeah, no one questions that.

My point is that we didn't had all the information about the class cause it was incomplete, we can't talk about balance without knowing how strong the full class is

Before it was Bard, now is Warlock, next what? Monk? Druid?
People will see a 10 minutes video with 2 skills or play the class while incomplete and still asks for buffs

[somber wind]

No of course and I know it wasn't complete; I was more saying it was actually decently playable and people were being too hard on it especially while it was unfinished.

[lone crescent]

Like his healing is op in my opinion
And the speed boost too, the others are meh.
Chaotic discord is good for low geared runs while peace thing is a meme (it should block spells too imho)

[harsh depot]

I suggest that there is a more detailed recap of his game when I finish the game

[somber wind]

Chaotic Discord is decently good on Goblin Caves, Peace is for sure a meme but with double bard it can be more than a meme.

[lone crescent]

Peace is broken, it should block all offensive and defensive action (shields and spells too)

It could be useful to stop a ranger from attacking while you get close or to escape a bad situation

But mostly for the memes

[glacial dragon]

can you make the storage account wide for alts ?

[woeful pewter]

Nah would rather unlock more stash space at a certain level/gold spent and allow trading between your own characters

[ripe turtle]

i don't like the idea of trading your items to your own other characters. i've always praised "earn your keep" mentality. every character should have their own progress, items, gold and levels. still you could trade with your friends.

[somber wind]

It's working as intended, why would they have a skill to silence just magic if it wasn't ment to be split up?

[somber wind]

I feel like it'd be fine to trade to your own characters but there should be a "Courier" fee. So instead of 15 gold, it costs 30 gold to trade items over to your other character (Normally already costs 30 gold split over 2 players). You could avoid the 15 gold extra fee by using another player but they might steal the item.

[dense sand]

you end up paying the price you're talkign about if you are trading to a friend or a 2nd account

[somber wind]

I mention that, you're paying both sides.

[ripe turtle]

it's easy to use that method to have your lvl1 character with full epics ready to nuke everybody. that to me is just ruins the gameplay.

[somber wind]

It's easy to do that now.

[dense sand]

level 1 character still doesnt have their perks, and wait until the character progression system is in

[somber wind]

Don't forget that when you cant trade you can still drop items and when you can trade you can trade your friends Maelstrom.

[ripe turtle]

still you have the advantage over other instead of earning your gear, easy way out without any challenge. that's just other way of "p2w"

[dense sand]

except no one is paying lol

[somber wind]

LUL how is that pay to win???

[ripe turtle]

and the whole trading is just semi useless cause you just have your own characters to do business.

[somber wind]

Ight buying named gear on the market is pay to win, heard it here first boys LUL

[dense sand]

its literally using your own time from one character to earn stuff for another weaker character lol

[ripe turtle]

i put it on quotes. still easy way out, undermines the whole leveling process and overall experience if you just transfer your items to another character.

[somber wind]

As long as you can trade you can give items to your own characters and as long as players can drop items your friends can carry you before access to trading.

[dense sand]

no it doesn't, you are trading it to a gimped character lol. its a nonissue and once the character progression system is in its gonna be even less of an issue

[somber wind]

If anything being able to move gear over is important because creating a new character mid-season is being at a severe disadvantage.

[dense sand]

twinking a new character in this game if anything is more risky than beneficial, the richer you are obviously the less risky it is

[somber wind]

You honestly couldn't twink at all since that would require other players to be at a low level like you and most people you'd face if you made a new character mid season would be leveled.

[dense sand]

yep you are just risking good items on an incomplete character

[noble thicket]

any news 😦

[dense sand]

no

[somber wind]

I was thinking about how Double Jump isn't really a problem on any map except Ruins and I realized that if we nerf classes due to new maps we'll be hurting them on other maps and we'll continue to do this and instead of having characters be OP on certain maps we'll have characters be UP on all maps they weren't OP in before. So I came up with a suggestion on how to fix Ruins without nerfing Double Jump (and these design philosophies should be taken into account for the future for all outside maps):

• Walls should have a few points where there are stairs going up to this, this will make the walls not Rogue only but still make Rogue have the advantage of accessing them from places other classes cant.
• Walls should also have some sections that have platforms that aren't completely crumbled with enemies on them, this could be placed strategically by Ironmace to make the best sections of the walls be something you have to fight for.
• To disconnect the walls from eachother so getting onto the walls doesn't just give you access to the entire map there could be the occasional broken wall or a tower you cant enter or climb at the 4 wall connection points. It shouldn't be all of them but the idea is to isolate walls from eachother so you can only cover quadrants of the map instead of the entire map.
• Gargoyles are commonly known for being high up and on castles. So my suggestion would be for the exceptionally high up areas some of them would have a sleeping Gargoyle perched that wakes up if someone gets too close or shoots at it. This would mean that unless someone was climbing exceptionally high there wouldn't be any Gargoyles active.

[dusky sigil]

i like gargoyles

[compact barn]

Or we can yoink double jump right outta the game and then all the maps will be fine forever

[somber wind]

The problem is nerfing a character for the fault of a map; if this becomes practice then classes will be nerfed every time we get a map and cause classes to be underpowered on certain maps. Your mindset is shortsighted. Designing the map with the classes in mind is better than nerfing classes every time a map is added.

[tropic crescent]

its an issue on more than ruins its just ESPECIALLY bad on ruins

[somber wind]

It's not an issue outside of ruins, If you think it is you're just bad. I don't play rogue as a note.

[graceful frost]

its not an issue just in ruins

goblin caves has some stupid stuff with it too and just in general has way too much air mobility. as a ranger even with very good aim it is extremely hard borderline impossible to hit a rogue double jumping and strafing. if u dont trust my aim spudhunter has said the exact same thing

[fervent falcon]

This - it's the same suggestion I fielded a long while back too. Anyone can trade with themselves if they have a friend, multi-box or fan club so they might as well legitimise it.

[fervent falcon]

It's easy to do that now. You can do the same thing with your lvl20 characters that already have epics, with or without trading.

[glacial sphinx]

You're wrong on this man, and I think calling people bad for disagreeing with you is not good for discussion. Double Jump is extremely good in all forms of PVP, far more than a single perk slot justifies, and it trivializes almost all PVE cause of how easy it is to avoid swings with it. Don't think there has ever been a perk more impactful on a classes' representation in statistics either. Saying Double Jump is fine as a perk is basically saying that 4 perks of roughly similar strength could exist, and the class equipping all of them would be balanced. That is an obvious falsehood.

[tropic crescent]

HAHA no its an issue on all maps cause everywhere they have places they can double jump to not to mention double jump itself gave them more mobility they didnt need.

[somber wind]

I really didn't feel like it was busted and I didn't have much trouble dealing with double jump rogues. The only time I felt issue with it was on Ruins. That said if Double Jump requires a nerf then fine but I still think my points on changing the map are valid to hurt sniping from high up with the hand crossbow (I still think rogues should beable to get up there).

It does look like from the backend code though that double jump wont just be for Rogue and will be available to everyone via a named boots.

[glacial sphinx]

Well Ruins for sure had by far the most obvious application and examples. And you could quickly see the shift in what classes played ruins. Maybe try it a bit next playtest and see how different fighting any PVE is when you have it. It just reduces the threat of any monster to 0. And youll see how you end up just spamming it constantly in PVP as well since its so easy to juke swings and avoid projectiles with it. If it's going to be on named boots thats absolutely fine to me, since that'll be exclusive and something you risk when you bring it.

[somber wind]

I do think that a part of that is for sure people wanting to try it out and less because it was the most ideal but FOR SURE it would increase Rogues on that map no matter what. I just think the amount it increased was in part due to it being both interesting and new. Most NPCs aren't a threat in general but that after getting some skill at the game, double jump does lower the ceiling for sure so tuning it a little might be ideal but for PVP i'm fairly used to stuff like this having played TF2 and I don't think it's particularly overtuned in that situation.

Rogue is just scout in my mind now tbh. I don't mind it though. There's just some situations it can provide that need to be nerfed.

Double jump length might be the nerf that would fix it tbh. That said I still think the map changes are required.

[glacial sphinx]

Well I think power did play a major role in it, because the Bard also came out and people wanted to try that but I sure didn't see the place flooded with bards. As to the "mobs aren't a threat anyway argument" somewhat get it but you also can see from the statistics that people die to mobs all the time, and if someone suggested "reduce mob damage by 25%" players would likely disagree. Yet essentially double jump does that or more. It is far safer to approach wraith or skeleton champ as a melee with double jump.

Another issue is the combination with the hand crossbow. It essentially sets a minimum requirement on classes like fighters and barbs to have plenty of throwables or a ranged weapon or its a 100% loss since they're harder to catch upto than a ranger and actually do more damage per shot applying their skills to hand crossbow shots. It also means you can engage wizards from range now and actually be at an advantage since everything they can cast is an easily dodged projectile. In essence its just this baseline huge advantage/game changing thing that never really goes away but does require others to gear in a specific way.

[somber wind]

As I said it does come with skill and the double jump does raise the skill floor for it. I do mention the hand crossbow. I think Rogues in general need a nerf of some kind due to the hand crossbow being overtuned. Something I think should exist is damage falloff as I like Dark and Darker for not being sniped half map like in Tarkov but in Ruins you really really can be (albeit it's much harder to but it shouldn't be as scary as it is eitherway).

Note that when I say half map I really do mean it, I've seen vids of people headshoting people from 3 rooms away on ruins with the hand crossbow.

[glacial sphinx]

Yeah think there's multiple angles to approach it, but it does need some adjusting.

[somber wind]

The thing is I think that double jumping really doesn't need to be removed, something needs to change but I feel like it's for the most part fine. I prefer nerfing around the character if possible as to not make it a habit to nerf characters due to new maps but I also don't know if Rogue's double jump is fine or not in the first place. I think the double jump recovery and distance might be the places to hit but I don't think it needs to be hit super hard and for the crossbow damage fall off and ammo might be the places to hit.

[glacial sphinx]

I do understand the kind of batman fantasy being nice though, where a rogue can sit on his perch and observe things. I kinda did the same playing rogue a decent bit last PT, but I also felt the wins were too free.

[somber wind]

Another question is this, if a class is in their element like in an outside environment for rogue or corridors for barbarian should they be better there or shouldn't they?

[glacial sphinx]

I do think Double Jump should be adjusted a bit, because otherwise you have to balance the entire class around having it, which also sucks a bit for an optional perk that some might not want to play with. I think it could have a number of charges maybe that recharge every 12 seconds or something. Or it could be less combat based, slowing you down after the double jump.

[somber wind]

Oh 100% with you on the optional part; anything mandatory from a balance standpoint is always bad.

[glacial sphinx]

In my view a rogue fighting a barbarian (or any class really) head on (as in spotting eachother across the hallway and starting a fight) should be at a disadvantage. He should be at an advantage either by having a better position before the fight starts, or by getting some hits in before the barb is ready. Since he has the choice to engage or not cause of mobility and ambush advantage via stealth.

[somber wind]

A mechanic that could be added to balance stronger perks as a side note could be "Legendary Perks"; I had this idea a little while back where some perks would have a gold border. You can only have 1 gold border perk active at a time.

[somber wind]

Well I was more saying that rogue is good on ruins because of it being rogue; so should rogue be nerfed to accomidate the map or viseversa or should it just be good on that map because it's a rogue and that kind of situation is apart of it's class identity's ideal enviornment.

Rogues/Assassins prefer a situation like the ruins map so wouldn't that be the best place for them and thefore be a buff in itself to the class being on that map? That was mostly what I was saying.

[glacial sphinx]

Right thats an interesting question I guess, I would say you will always have circumstances where a class excels, but I think the degree that was the case for Rogues in the last PT was unhealthy for the game. People will very often choose the path of least resistance to get their loot and you don't want maps separated into "the rogue playground", the "wizard playground" and the "barb playground" lets say.

It would be better for each map to have some varied areas that were better or worse for you, so you can still exploit your class mechanics but not feel more inclined to queue up to a map tailored to you.

[somber wind]

I would agree with you on that as well, it's very much a tightrope walk and it has to be figured out how far a class should excel in a given environment. That said I do think something that would help some variety eitherway is maybe some named items can only be gotten from certain bosses as this would no matter what break up some of that clumping of classes as a fail safe.

[glacial sphinx]

It could maybe, and I like the idea of certain drops being limited to certain bosses. But they would still need a decent spread of items to attract all classes and there is trading of course.

Like you could have last PT's ruins drop a named spellbook but you'd probably just see a bunch of rogues selling spellbooks.

[somber wind]

I think there should be a global named item pool that is pulled from by all bosses but also their own individual pool which would have atleast 1 thing for each class as well as some generic items.

[late dome]

We need a woodcutting skilltree, and cuttable trees in the ruins.
Which could lead into firemaking and cooking of course.

[ripe turtle]

professions could be a nice addition to the game.

[lone crescent]

I don't know if too much crafting is good for the game, you could go in to cut trees and could suddenly die to PvP losing all materials.
If you do a normal run and take some time to cut some trees then you kill someone you will drop your wood for their gear anyway

[late dome]

Its like mining rubysilver, but just for better campfire kits. If you can craft them in the dungeon with a high enough resourcefulness it could be pretty cool

Maybe arrows

[lone crescent]

@glacial sphinx they already nerfed double jump on Ruins, as showed in official gameplay on YouTube were the Rogue can't climb.
We don't have enough information right now, but a fix for combat could be nerfing the direction change with the second jump and force player to keep their momentum mid air

[lone crescent]

Isn't it the same thing as finding a campfire or arrows to pick up?

[late dome]

It would be more reliable than finding it randomly, and there is already a woodsman merchant that would be able to sell axes. And I, personally, would dump some low tier treasure for a chance to craft a green campfire kit or better

Get rich being the campfire guy on the market

[late dome]

You shouldn't be able to craft it mid-run actually. But if they do add crafting to the woodsman it would be easy to scale to higher campfire tiers, just turn in more wood at once.
Imagine being able to turn in 100 logs for a legendary campfire kit

[ripe turtle]

What I would like to see is the ingame stat description like what does stat increase. For example, Rogues have two ways in getting regular interaction speed (Ranger too? Need confirmation). With agility and resourcefulness.

[lone crescent]

All that effort for a campfire doesn't seem very worthy

[late dome]

It's worth it for penny pinchers, and people that like mining would probably get the same amount of serotonin from choppin.

And that was just an example for the highest end fire, normal ones would obviously be way easier to get. Gives the option of making a handful of medium campfires or one mega campfire to flex on your poor teammates.

And if theres woodsman quests later a legendary campfire kit would be a good goal I think

[dense sand]

there is, its just not a popup tooltip yet

[ripe turtle]

it shows every detail? can't remember.

[placid canopy]

Interaction speed is just calculated from 40% of your agility and 60% of your res. That's for everyone

[somber wind]

I would love more non-combat activities like woodcutting, Ik it's a meme but I love the idea.

[ripe turtle]

i see.

[somber wind]

Please please please diversify the stats on items that have exactly the same stats as other items like the Leather Chausses, Chapel De Fer, etc.

[dense sand]

theres a little guide button you can click used to be called Fopdoodles and it explained the stats and other stuff

[ripe turtle]

oooh it does! holy smokes! i forgot about the guide too! i really need to play this game again!

[pure pollen]

would be interesting, since it would give people reasons to visit other maps

[calm jetty]

https://tenor.com/view/ageofempires-14-start-the-game-already-aoe2germany-aoe2de-gif-26557349

[ruby topaz]

I 100% agree. As a non rouge player, I can say from an opposing point of view, the double jump has been WAY overblown and I think gives the class a vital edge in which it usually lacks one. I've played all classes but wizard and bard a lot, and have felt rouge to be exceptionally weak in almost all areas. Making the map less prone to abuse is a better solution to gutting an already bad class.

[somber wind]

For sure rogue isn't a bad class but it's skill floor is exceptionally high, that said I do agree it's insanely overblown. It's just people feeling upset about their experience from Ruins and it painting the way they look at it on other maps. Jumping from torch to torch in the Crypt isn't overpowered, it's just unique. Having more escape routes? It's a rogue, it should have that.

[ruby topaz]

very well said

rouge's edge certainly isnt up front. Stealth only goes so far and is only so effective in a game like dark and darker, so that lack of strength needs to be supplemented with mobility

[somber wind]

I would say the only thing currently overtuned with it is the hand crossbow + it's abilties being used together with a lack of damage fall off allowing you to headshot someone from 3 rooms away on ruins.

If anything is getting damage fall off the hand crossbow should be it.

[ruby topaz]

yeah if any class is to have range its the ranger. Hand crossbow should be a ranged option for the rouge but still force them to play within that mid range where they are still vunerable and have to rely on their mobility, unlike ranger who just uses their range.

[worn notch]

game out?

[wicked delta]

can u play it? No? Then the game isn't out dude....

[graceful frost]

It also has a low bullet drop and really fast reload for being a hand crossbow. I expected the reload to be longer and bullet drop to be more

[stuck perch]

People just have to learn to check above them. We shot a rogue to bits last session when we saw him perching.

[somber wind]

I was honestly expecting the wheel reload but the bullet drop needs to be stronger and we SHOULD have damage fall off after the distance of I'd say 1.5 modules (Dependent on the map, this is so you can shoot from 1 room into another room if the door is open or from high up in 1 module to another module but never anything like what we've seen where people are shooting people from 3 modules away).

[graceful frost]

Exactly

[agile inlet]

Suggestion - magic catalyst rebalance

Wizard Staff - slow casting speed but longer cast range
Spellbook - faster casting speed but shorter cast range and a tiny bit less magic damage
crystal ball - average casting speed but a tiny bit longer cast range and a tiny bit more magic damage.

[pure pollen]

while i agree, the double jump has been way overblown in and of itself, it was exacerbated by them also recieving one of the best ranged options in the game, and the ruins map was basically designed for them, all in the same patch

[abstract swallow]

double jump was absolutely not overblown
the ability to desync your hitbox by just jumping in place alone was gamebreaking

[pure pollen]

which made the package itself seem far more brain tumor, than any of the individual things by themselves would have. double jump is a cool and very flavourful mechanic for one of the worst straight up manfighting classes, giving them a clear evasion over defence playstyle. but when everyone is trying out the new map, with like 30% of the playable squaremeterage of the map being inaccessible to all other classes, being accessable exclusively by a newly rangeified rogue, who doesnt have to go through weapon swapping animations to be dangerous at melee or range, it is quite understandable why so many people saw the one key aspect making the whole problem as bad as it was

[pure pollen]

that seems less like a problem with the concept of a double jump itself than just mechanical flaws to be fleshed out

badger i dont want to be that guy but its 5 am and i have work in 7 hours i need to go to sleep but you have good takes often so please god damn spill it out already

[abstract swallow]

conceptually it was fine, it just needed much better implementation and design
double jump just needs some simple restrictions that people have suggested a million times, like not being able to be used in slowdown and a simple cooldown
as it stood in PT5 it wasn't just a chance to escape or prepare for a fight, it was an unlimited, exclusive mobility tool the eliminated any and all positioning requirements or counterplay for Rogue that ALSO doubled as an incredibly strong combat trick
even without the handbow and ignoring the Ruins walls being their kingdom, it still let Rogue ambush off of walls and props, train mobs into people at 0 risk, and escape almost any situation through one-way mobility regardless of the misplays that lead up to a retreat

basically, it was cool and fun and I hope to see it further refined
but the moment people started using it for anything but 'haha run around the map' hijinx it turned Low Roller into 19-Rogue lobbies that limbstuffed you with their legs after ambushing you from the ceiling

[pure pollen]

oh yeah no it for sure had issues, but my point was people asking to DELETE it, is really putting a cool thing down for just not being balanced, rather than seeign it as a redeemable and really cool mechanic

[abstract swallow]

oh yeah it's 100% redeemable, especially if other classes get some more mobility
something something wizard flight something something game needs a basic climbing system (ladders are not your friend)

[pure pollen]

i feel like it really shouldnt be a movement option, but really closer to a fighter sprint

not as harshly held back, but clearly something you do with intent, rather than just because you can

[abstract swallow]

that would be an appropriate power level for it in terms of cooldown
honestly just the ability to move in ANY direction so quickly without using a skill slot is insane and lets you survive in so many situations you shouldn't (or at least couldn't as any other class)
hanging air time against wizard spells and arrows or forcing a limb hit without suffering any slowdown while you're in the air is crazy strong

[pure pollen]

well, i mean

it is THE class for evasion, i dont mind them having the single best movement options in the game, for the same reasons why fighters are the tankiest and why barbs do the most single hit damage

[abstract swallow]

yeah it's not so much about being able to do the above once, it's about being able to do it against almost EVERY instance of combat

[pure pollen]

but it is kind of ridiculous for now, since rogues just get it, while everyone else has to get peak gear for their "thing"

i just really really dont agree with rogues being able to have their skills function the same at range as with melee, that just screams terrible design

[tawdry pine]

A tackle charge for barbarian, a levitation for wizard, a dodge roll for fighter, a climbable/crossable rope for ranger. So many options to give classes mobility in a direct theme

[pure pollen]

either the skills are too weak nd dont reward enough for going melee, or its far too strong to be offered at 100% power at rangr

[pure pollen]

mind you, not every class needs or should have good movement

[abstract swallow]

they should 100% not get the damage bonus for WPA and Ambush on ranged weapons/outside a certain radius (also handbow had way too much mobility)
being able to apply debuffs at range gives them an offensive utility role in teams they were desperately missing

[abstract swallow]

every class should have a niche for exploration and mobility can be a part of that, but otherwise I agree
the game could use some good old fashioned stat checks in places to open alternate routes/disable obstacles

[pure pollen]

also like, levitation smells like giga pay to lose

every class has a pretty good option to just snipe the slowfloating wiz from thr sky, well, except clerics

[tawdry pine]

Im saying mobility for specific playstyles of given classes (Ranger getting a climbable rope to place down for party vertical mobility utility, Wizard being able to cast levitation on themselves and/or party members for horizontal mobility, or Fighter to dodge roll away when hes in a sticky situation, or Barbarians using a tackle to close a gap but it doesnt have much manueverability.

[placid canopy]

Dodgeroll in full plate 🤔

[tawdry pine]

Fatroll my b

[pure pollen]

i mean, rangers dont seem mobile enough for rangers, and some kind of movement beyond just a +ms steroid would be cool for wizards, but i think fighters and barbs dont really need a good engage, since their conflict is getting to melee, and their payoff is, well, getting to melee

so something that just mitigates the primary struggle of a class seems kind of, eugh

[abstract swallow]

speed potions got cut from the game for a reason

[pure pollen]

well, first of all they would be better items than health potions, and second of all, one of the classes would be perennially broken with them, they would be an absolute balance nightmare

[abstract swallow]

right on the money
I do like the baja blast that got added in PT5 though, definitely a good step in making all classes more involved with itemization/consumables

[pure pollen]

if you make them +ms, fast classes are op with them, if you make them +%ms, fast classes would be op with them, if you make them a -weight, middleweight classes would be op with them, and if you make them -% weight, plate fighters would just smoke lobbies alone

[pure pollen]

oh, you said for A reason, i read it for SOME reason

[abstract swallow]

you still got an A- for effort despite misreading the assignment 👍🏻

[placid canopy]

Technically flat ms benefits slower people more

[pure pollen]

i doubt that in practise

sure, it might give them more speed in comparison, but going from fast to really fast is generally better than going from slow to kind of slow

break points and all that

[placid canopy]

I guess I can see that

[pure pollen]

an analogue would be something like armor value to pdr and speed value to attacks evaded with speed

[placid canopy]

I don't really want them to add a bunch of dif potions though. Drinking 10 potions before every fight sounds miserable

Also go to sleep lmao

[pure pollen]

yeeeah, more effects could be tied to trinkets, i know i should lol

but like forreal though how would you feel about gems having like magic find% or something non-stat effects like interaction speed or movement speed

so they wouldnt offer stats, but the underbranches of what stats do, so they could be more powerful and offer more interesting builds than +all

so that not every piece of gear in the game has to necessarily be to forward your combat prowess

[placid canopy]

Hard to say in early stages of the game, but idt we need more gear rn

Also idl magic find, but devs seem to want it since we have the bard perk and magic find potion

[pure pollen]

whats the problem with magic find. rich get richer?

[placid canopy]

That and it often forces you to be weaker for a chance to find better stuff. Also it prob slows you down since you probably want 1 person on your team to be the one who loots everything if they're stacking the magic find

[pure pollen]

right

so it just clunkyfies everything because it not only encourages but almost forces min-maxing loot since you're just self-griefing if the magic find guy doesnt loot everything

[placid canopy]

Yeah basically

[pure pollen]

how about identification

i havent played any games with the mechanic but i know what it is, so idk how it feels to play with

[placid canopy]

Entirely depends how they implement it and for what types of gear need it

In something like path of exile you just click it with an ID scroll (they drop everywhere so you're never out) and it instantly does it to equip

[pure pollen]

thats sounds like a completely redundant mechanic that does nothing but adds clicks

[placid canopy]

It is lmao
Also if it takes 30 seconds to be able to put on or figure out what mods are on it sounds terrible

But we do have loot filters and filters can pick out the good stuff if everything dropped IDed which they don't want

[pure pollen]

i got plenty more if you're down to headcannon this stuff

[placid canopy]

Stalling your sleep lol. Ask me tomorrow

[pure pollen]

fine 😂 ill hit the hay now

[fathom sage]

does the cleric have anything they can throw

If not could holy water be a suitable item does damage to undead or demonic creatures but perhaps could heal your teamates quicker than a spell but less healing and over time maybe

and enemies if you are not careful

[olive kettle]

he can throw oil lamps and bottles

[glacial sphinx]

and drums it seems

[ripe turtle]

guys! we need a tavern brawl!

[median owl]

What do you think guys about staff having bonus magic damage same as orb or book its kinda useless to have in general, either that or casters start with book or orb

[lone crescent]

drums lol

[glacial sphinx]

It should yeah, but I would make it +% percent magic power per rarity tier rather than a flat amount, to make them good at different things. Staff should be useful so casters have options as well, starting with a book is a bandaid fix. So for example starting staff would always have +5% magic power, grey staff +10%, white 15% etc.

[median owl]

yeah that that would be good, for example starting with the worst gray book and now by finding a staff it actually can be a good thing depending on rarity so u can choose book for more movement and a bit damage or staff for more damage and less movement

[ripe turtle]

How's this? Let all classes play the music instruments BUT they do not do any buffs or anything combat related. Instead, you find these notes from dungeons that allow you to learn specific music notes to play with specific music instruments.

[elder heart]

this but only bard gets to do buffs

[ripe turtle]

buff, debuffs, gameplay stuff like opening doors, lighting areas etc. Let all classes play instruments for meme purposes, but you gotta find music notes from random places, otherwise you play like mordhau players without mods or other software.

[glacial sphinx]

Right and also flat damage affects multihitting spells more, whereas % increase would be better for single large hits.

[faint onyx]

Wizard spells - Blinding cloud: Projectile like fireball, impact creates a small cloud that intensely blurs the vision of anyone who walks into it, direct hit is a full blind. Ember caltrops: Short range, scatter hot coals on the ground that damage. Anyone who walks on them. Seal: Door becomes unbreakable and unopenable for x seconds. Blink: teleport a short distance. Tether: Shackle two entities together with arcane chains, can be cast on self, friendly and enemy players and mobs, requires two casts and two direct hits.

More wizard spells - Spirit projection: project your spirit to safely scout ahead, spirit passes through doors. Your physical body can still be damaged while scouting with your spirit.

[pure pollen]

the first two are just lifted off rogue no?

[abstract swallow]

Let's split the baby and make them Arcane Trickster archetype defaults that Wizard can learn

[latent inlet]

Hello, I have an idea that I'd like to share with you all here! With the addition of the "warlock" class in the upcoming updates, an idea came to my mind. It would be amazing to have an NPC that buys souls (the souls we can extract from the bodies of defeated characters within the matches). This would add an exciting dynamic for PvP enthusiasts to roam around the dungeons hunting other players. Along with this idea of giving new use to souls, the possibility of imbuing souls into weapons or armor to enhance their stats or effects seems like a very positive addition, of course, with some limitations. For instance, allowing players to add a total of 5 or 10 souls, and perhaps even having specific weapons called "containers" for this purpose. That's it! Thank you for your attention.

[pure pollen]

honestly you could just do this and give my sword a "souls claimed" counter with no in game use other than the guy who finds it seeing how many lights it has extinguished

[tropic crescent]

this is a very simple thing but very fun i agree

[ripe turtle]

ispect the sword and you see this glowing effect showing how many lives the sword has claimed in roman numbers.

[fringe sequoia]

Omg I love that so much. Imagine getting a grey sword that has 20 kills off a guy. I would want to use it just to keep it going. Ohh cool idea make it so that if a weapon gets enough kills it could go up a tier. Like 5 kills from grey to white ten more for white to green. 20 to go to blue. Make it so that it is in no way overpowered. But I would absolutely use a weapon that’s close to upgrading.

[gray skiff]

I like the idea, but personally would prefer if it wasnt with gray swords and stuff. Like its a magical effect and in my eyes gray swords arent supposed to be magical. maybe just special swords from purple rarity and up that will get a special perk when they get enough kills. Like a bloodmagic sword. could be necromancer exclusive and give other classes something else

[lone crescent]

No, people will go in Goblin caves with BIS and destroy everyone to buff a grey item

[fringe sequoia]

What is BIS?

[lone crescent]

Best in slot

People will flood goblin caves with legendary and uniquebgearbto level up grey weapons stomping low geared players

Even just normal Crypt/Ruins would be the same, it just kills the game

[fringe sequoia]

Why is that a problem if they have best in slot there is no reason not to run a purple. It’s something people could do. There just wouldn’t be much reason too. As it should require more and more kills per tier. 50 kills to become purple and maybe 100 to turn legendary. That is not easily done. And if they are good enough to have best in slot they could simply go to hell and get those items far more easily. I totally see a few people doing that. But no more than the people that already run goblin caves with best in slot.

[glacial sphinx]

There's already plenty of incentive to kill players, its not needed and just adds one more mandatory loot item to every kill. Shouldn't give geared players more reason to stomp newbies either

[fringe sequoia]

Yea I tend to be on the geared end of the spectrum so maybe my perspective is a bit off. As I can kill geared players while in base grey 💩. But I still think some kind of mechanic for that would be good. As I always found it annoying to have someone attack me. I kill them but it costs me health that I now need to heal. And they literally didn’t have a single piece of loot on them. Makes it real frustrating when match after match I have team’s challenge me and get wiped and I get nothing for it. Having some kind of bonus for kills or being able to loot souls of fully dead teams. Would be a great way to make it so that when a greyed out player charges me Its not only a negative where I’m worse off once I win the fight.

[lone crescent]

@fringe sequoia i am strongly against the level up weapons cause it incentivize player to abuse low geared players and it's useless both from low and high geared.

I am strongly against rewards from killing players for the same reason

People will go in normal lobbies justvto farm soul hearts and if everyone starts doing it nornal lobbies could become exactly like high roller

[faint onyx]

Similar, Blinding cloud would be see through for those not in it, and much smaller. Ember caltrops yes but only smaller and a dot fire effect instead of physical. They would also be very visible.

[deft valley]

I want an open world mmo version

[fringe sequoia]

Fair enough points. I just feel that there should be some sort of reward for making a kill. As ungeared players bum rush constantly. And they die fast but usually get a hit or two in before being slaughtered. So while I agree that if you attached some exclusive system to making kills or souls it would make normal lobbies rougher. I’m just saying that there should be something there to offset the annoying bum rushes. I would be fine if it was just a quarter health heal from each soul. That would be enough that I wouldn’t be annoyed every time I cut down a fresher team that literally has not picked up a single trinket 10 min into the match. The amount of matches where I have died after cutting down 2 or 3 teams due to no one having any meds and each of them whittling down my hp. Is enough for it to be a problem. This may be a top 10% issue but I still think it is something that needs to be addressed.

[hidden sedge]

Kind of just think that's part of it, though. It's a gauntlet, and losing HP to ungeared players is a reasonable scenario.

[patent mauve]

There's no real downside to rolling normal lobbies while geared. If we could upgrade weapons with kills, make it HR exclusive. This also makes chasing rats in HR have some value besides a few pieces of treasure.

[placid canopy]

It'd come down to risk vs return really

When they nerf loot in ea it'll be much less of a return to go into gob caves with juiced gear and still keep the same high risk

[latent inlet]

ertainly, one way to make it harder for the system to be abused is to have to carry the souls with you in slots within the inventory, so that the NPC can then infuse them into the weapon.

What is the value of spending 4 slots to carry them, and how many kills can we make per game for it to be 'rewarding'?

[lone crescent]

I think killing players should givev0 reward besides loot

Even quests that require to kill other players could potentially break the game and make it impossibile to play with bad gear

All quests should be PvE and loot focus

The game shouldn't encourage players to pick high end gear and stomping other players in PvP

[placid canopy]

You get xp for player kills but that prob doesn't matter once max level

[late dome]

There's no better treasure than seeing the killfeed fill up with your name, I think thats enough encouragement for pvp as well. I do think that daily quests where you kill x amount of players or x amount of a certain class would be fine

[placid canopy]

Dailies

[lone crescent]

No, it encorages player to go into Ruins or Goblin Caves with purple just for quests

[late dome]

Im gonna be doing that anyways 😈😈😈

[placid canopy]

99% of players play low roller map anyway. I don't think anything would change

[late dome]

Bro doesn't want his free daily 100 coins smh

[lone crescent]

Daily quests seems a 💩 system honestly

[late dome]

Gives you something to do, and it'll help low level and poor players get some extra rewards and xp

[lone crescent]

Quests will be reset with wipes anyway

[late dome]

I don't really see how wipes would matter for daily quests

[lone crescent]

And if you have multiple characters i guess everyone has their own

[lone crescent]

Daily quests are just boring on the long run

[late dome]

Yeah thats why you usually just ignore them once you get enough gear, but for low level players with low extraction rates it could really help them get started if they are struggling

Unless the dailies scale with level, but that would start to get too broken if done poorly

[lone crescent]

Vendor's quests with increasing difficulty are the way

[late dome]

I agree with vendor quests but there could just be both, and the dailies don't always have to be pvp based. They could just be things youd be doing passively, like "extract with 40 pieces of treasure" or "mine 10 rubysilver ore"
Stuff that anyone is probaby going to be doing anyway

Id love a quest that makes you buy everything in the gob merchants inventory at once too, that would be funny

[pure pollen]

this is the strangest take i have seen in a minute

considering this is a pvpve game, with most of the actual content of the game being about hitting other people harder than they hit you

[late dome]

[pure pollen]

i mean i understand the whole problem about new olayer experience and such, but the game is dog eat dog

i mean honestly i genuinely wouldnt mind like the first 5 levels to be an opt-in safe queue, with other low level people aswell

just to give people a hang of what the hell is even going on, because i started playing tarkov 3 days ago and i still dont know anything about anything

[late dome]

BOO NO SAFE QUEUES!!!

[pure pollen]

x) i doubt you or me or anybody is going miss that level 3 barbarians gray battleaxe

[late dome]

Catch me making 20 characters to stay in the low level lobbies then😈😈

[pure pollen]

i mean, thats literally a good thing aswell, no false sense of everyone being bad

i mean also people would just speed level through while stompig shitters anyway so its a self defeating problem

[late dome]

Ill never get tired of stomping shitters😈 Im sure there will be many people doing the same thing, but yeah it wouldn't really be that big of a problem. I just don't wanna kill someone and NOT ruin their day smh

[pure pollen]

tbh best thing to do to mentally f with people, is kill them, and not even check their gear

just kill them for the sake of killing them, so when they watch post-death cam, they see it wasnt even for gold or riches, you just were at the place at the wrong time, terminated like a house spider with no second thought put into it

[patent mauve]

Make them naked and then drop all the gear*

[late dome]

Thats how my whole team played the last day of the playtest, just wiping lobbies and extracting asap to find more shitters. It really was just better than looting

[fringe sequoia]

dude i feel like you got this point that is kills shouldn't be rewarded in your craw and aren't trying to consider anything else. channel is called discussion not argue my opinion. there's got to be a balance between the current state with low gear players being at best a nuisance that i have to scrape off my fancy red shoes. or making no gear players so valuable to kill that it is all everyone is doing. the people who are going to roll noob lobbies with maxed gear will do it either way.

[late dome]

But get this right. What if there was a unique hand crossbow that was a flintlock pistol🤔

[fringe sequoia]

too much work for not enough pay off

[late dome]

But itll look cool

[fringe sequoia]

if they were going to do that it would be a whole new weapon type maybe when they do artificer. they mentioned they were like 4 characters away though

[late dome]

Alright you got me there, artificers should have guns

[fringe sequoia]

that was my thought. although i could see rouges using them too. i just dont think they will bother till artificer if they were going to

[late dome]

I mean the hand crossbow can be used by fighters, bards, rangers, and rogues. I was just thinking it would be a reskin with slightly higher damage and armor piercing

But very very rare at the same time

[fringe sequoia]

yea but like do you not want it to make the loud boom. do you not want it to have the flintlock animations. do you not want it to create a poof of smoke out of the end of your gun. this game is big on the little things which in my opinion is what makes it good. nothing in dark and darker is new or original. its just so well done and feels so good to play and see and hear that its amazing. and getting all of those little things right takes time and effort. I personally dont want them spending that time and effort on a super rare weapon im only going to see in youtube clips.

[neat mantle]

Bring the blue dungeon back

[late dome]

That's fair just tossing out da suggestions, personally I thought the crank animation and arrow knock could have been modified to be pulling the hammer back and dropping a ball into the chamber but this is definitely something that should be added way later if at all

[fringe sequoia]

fantastic idea. and i would love to see it in the future as well but that is not how animations work. turning a crank and pulling back a flintlock would be made completely sperate. same with dropping a ball into the chamber.

[late dome]

Modifying animations is annoying but possible in blender, especiallyif you have a copy of the origina animation, but im not gonna pretend like I know what programs iromace is using to make their stuff lmfao
A man can dream of guns in his hack and slash melee fighter.

[broken flume]

They should add mud wizard

[shrewd wind]

For the warlock they should add skills or spells that are catered to the subclasses for instance burning hands for the fiend or some physic damage for the great old one. the same goes for the the other classes.

[compact barn]

Blue crypts best crypts

[somber wind]

@compact barn Blue crypts messed me up so bad LUL I had to not play during that time. I have a neurological disorder (that is more common than you'd think) that makes it so intense blue light makes me dizzy.

I was so happy when they changed it back since it ment I could play, I wouldn't mind if blue crypts existed but with a graphical option to revert it or a colorblind option that shifts it from blue to something else.

[abstract swallow]

Blue Crypts was the domain of champions
If you could survive the AI on that floor you could do anything

[somber wind]

(The neurological disorder btw, 40% of the US has some form of it but only 8% has it as bad as I do (26,799,560 people in the US is 8%))

[somber wind]

I really wish I could've experienced that TBH that kinda sounds both awesome and horrifying lol

[somber wind]

Was the look quality better, and for that matter was the loot quality in the inferno even better because it was the 3rd floor?

[abstract swallow]

It LOOKED a lot better, especially before the lighting got wrecked
In terms of loot it was fine, it only existed before the loot nerfs got rolled back but I reliably pulled blue weapons out of it.
Definitely not as lucrative as just ratting HR.

[smoky yoke]

i liked the alternative crypts because of the many red skeletons

[abstract swallow]

I liked fighting in Blue!Crypts... after I got out of spawn.
Fighting multiple red skeletons in a spawn room was absolutely miserable every. single. time.
And that's if your squad didn't get wiped by them before they loaded in (big corner, 4-square, that one non-closet chapel spawn)

[graceful frost]

Yeah

A few of the spawns were stupid asf. 4 square was an awful spawn filled with spear skeletons and most of the time you got insta killed by a diff team

[abstract swallow]

also the red crossbow skeletons being able to aggro from rooms adjacent to small library/cage and shoot you through the door-window even before you got to the door was not cool

[graceful frost]

Yeah

And you spawned in the little corner where I have had my friend get locked in behind a skeleton

[lone crescent]

I'm considering the impact it could have on normal lobbies, i'm not trying to state the truth cause i said so, i told you my reasons and you could agree or not

[pure pollen]

how would you even do this, like even if it was a skin

guns are pretty fukkin loud, and the advantage of arrow and bolt weapons is that they are relatively silent, not giving away your specific position instantly, which would either result in a pay2lose skin or a gun skin that makes like no noise when it Launches a projectile with explosions

[glacial sphinx]

Don't like guns in fantasy personally, nor monks but I guess thats more controversial

[boreal forge]

So I wrote a whole idea about a new class, The Alchemist and sdf responded and said it sounded good :D

It's this thing here, and I had images aswell paired to it, displaying the scraping tool, a top down mortar & pestle and the alchemical sign for the 4 different elements
||an Alchemist, He'd be a robed and have a monocle.

They has a scraping/gathering tool where they hits different stuff on the map as a bar that fills up 4 different kinds of elements
As those fill up they can go into a meditating stance where they can whip out some tools and in a minigame (similar to the bard songs) have it increase the potions effectiveness and if the minigame fails it is worse or has a debuff to make it not overpowered it'd have to be a lot harder to do perfectly.

The Minigame could be like a circular top down with a mortar and pestle

They would have the ability to be able to throw any given potion on the ground to spread it's small AoE. Say: if your barbarian is running into the fray and needs healing you can throw that health pot at his feet, or if they needs to escape you'd be able to throw a speed pot. The main damage dealing trick for him would be to use poison potions or explosive brews.

Potions ranging from speed, strength, slowness, weakness, gunpowder bomb(costly and effective), smokebomb,

Some of these potions can not be sold or paid for and can only be made by the Alchemist: like the Strength, Speed and Weakness pot

When using the gathering tool you have a 4 coloured bars that get filled up depending on where you hit/gather with your tool which can range from hitting wooden surfaces, stone, places with fire or soil(for water)

Their perks would be support oriented to make buffs around potions last longer as a passive AoE and possible perks that further their gathering effectiveness better. Further making them better at potion brewing.

They'd use weapons like: Crossbows, Short swords, daggers and Staff.||

Now if Sdf likes it what do you guys think >:)
(I wasn't alone in brainstorming all of this, a whole vc was with me)

It'd be the only class that can administer potions to other players and himself in an instant and be the only one to be able to throw potions. (but ofc can miss and hit the wrong target)

[somber wind]

I like it alot! You could actually tie all of this into a pre-existing class from other media that doesn't see enough use. There is a class called a "Perfumer" which would allow you to give it some weapons that are unique to it being Incense Burners (Chain held censers), Explosive Perfumes (which are juse Airated Potions) and more. I actually brought up a perfumer class before, lemme find it and see if you like some of the ideas in it.

Here ya go: #d-and-d-suggestions message

[boreal forge]

looks alright, I sent this whole thing to sdf so I think it got le stamp of personal approval :p

"sdf — Yesterday at 8:23 PM
Cool idea.
I think it would be a fun class just imagining it 🙂"

me and the boys 2 days ago were just like going off on how fun it'd be to use as teamplaying class

and even as solo with trying to make potions, smokebombs and the lot to try and do light escapism and survive etc

[boreal forge]

reminds me also a bit of the elden ring perfumers tbh

[gray skiff]

Sounds cool. Just not sure about the whole selling to other classes part. Dont think that has a place in this type of game tbh. Unless all classes get something along the lines to fill the economy unbalance. I feel like best would be for the alchemist to just have a wheel like other casters with the special potions he makes. Regular all class potions can then be put in regular slots and still be thrown as well.

[boreal forge]

No uh I think it should say that he can't sell the potions he makes?

Like duh, ofc it'd be wacky to do that

[gray skiff]

Ah I see. I kinda gathered from you saying "some can not be sold, like ....." that you envisioned some others to be sellable

[boreal forge]

I mean making quality potions actually worth selling is meant to be hard af. and it's only the shield and health pot you can do that with

all the other pots can't be sold

[lone crescent]

A special way to recharge the potions can be cool but i don't think adding stuff on map just for the alchemist/perfumer make sense.

He could have bottles as ammo and use them for crafting/casting

I'd like to have an artificier class with a pistol as main weapon, short shotgun in off hand and rifle for range, big dps but low reload speed.

He could use rapiers and daggers as meleee (rondel for right and castillon for left)

[late dome]

I'd want the gun to be as LOUD as possible, I don't care about people soundwhoring, Id just shoot them in the face if they ended up trying to track the sound

[abstract swallow]

I would play a wizard+rogue duo just to blow out the eardrums of people with cranked up headsets and a T*rkov audio mixer

[ripe turtle]

Give SDF his own emote. Graysun and Luci got one.

[fathom bolt]

real

[somber wind]

Elden ring is one of the few games that have had perfumers in recent memory but if you're saying its Elden Ring specific it's not in the same way that wizards arent Dark and Darker specific.

[graceful frost]

True. We ❤️ sdf

[boreal forge]

nah bro, it'd literally just be that he hits stuff with diff textures, and surfaces. that gives him le elements

[rare barn]

They should add a more expensive but higher risk reward gambling option

[normal lava]

Ehhh, easiest way to do it would just be his spells are potions that get recharged at campfires / resting. Not as inventive sure, but it'd be a hassle otherwise. I do fully support a gun artificier class tho.

[lone crescent]

For Artificier the skills could be grenedes,traps and various tools

[normal lava]

Ye.

[fringe sequoia]

Found the .1% player

[ripe turtle]

What do you guys think of Rogue poisons being consumables rather than skills? Instead of activating your skill, you use your poisons from your utility belt. Could be variety of poisons: movement/action slow poison, DoT poison, silence poison, drunk effect poison etc. Could have 1 poison active a time and will be consumed by the initial hit. And the damage is static, but bypasses all damage reductions and resistances.

[lone crescent]

Seems OP in combination with Weakpoint and any other skill.
Poisonbis so strong thatbit needs to take a skill slot to be balanced, they could add minor poisons like slow and stuff as item, but i dtill prefer some kind of radiant menu on skill and cooldown

[meager jasper]

To devil's advocate, what if you can't equip them without a perk?

[ripe turtle]

yes it is definitely overpowered in combination with skills. I was thinking more old school stuff by removing these DoTs from skill menu and place with consumable poisons. weakpoint skill in this case is the real problem, but what if there was skills that require certain situations to activate, that is not straightforward but calculated?

[lone crescent]

Just imagining Weakpoint + Rupture + Hide is inasnly op, i don't know if there is a way to balance poisons as item without reworking the class

The best way could be a radial menu were you can equip your poisons and use them with cooldown (on the skill not on single poisons).
Rupture could be one of them or they nedd to be strong/useful enough to justify removing Rupture or Weakpoint

[ripe turtle]

hmm it's either reworking the class or maybe have poisons for different effects that are not unbalanced.

[lone crescent]

The problem is that if they make them as items they need to be bad or mid, while if they make them as skills they could be powerful

[abstract swallow]

make poisons an item, and let rogues craft brown-quality versions while resting like ranger should be able to fletch arrows
apply poisons through a simple animation affected by interaction/utility speed that gives X stacks of apply-on-hit (or on-shoot for ranged weapons) that vary depending on the size of the weapon (so daggers get extra value but 2h frontliners can't cheese even more damage stacking effectively) that expire after Y duration (affected by utility effectiveness)

[ripe turtle]

how do you increase utility effectiveness? with a stat or something else?

[abstract swallow]

unimplemented Resourcefulness substat

[ripe turtle]

better utility belt?

[placid canopy]

Barb has potion effectiveness so easily done

[abstract swallow]

maybe, resourcefulness is also supposed to give more equipslots too

[ripe turtle]

as long as there's no balancing issues, sky's the limit. we shall see.

[bleak burrow]

Wish I could suggest this, but it would be cool if disease could be added in such as the common cold, where you’ll occasionally cough and give out your location

[lone crescent]

@abstract swallow isn't Rogue strong enough as dps? That feels like a buff while more potions should just give alternative gameplay

I'm just convinced poison as item can exist only if they remove Rupture and Weakpoint and make them poison items

[tropic crescent]

adding poisons is fine but it should be more utility. like antiheal etc. just giving more dmg is boring and unnecessary

[lone crescent]

When suggesting potion you can't just ignore the almost oneshot potential Rogue's have already, adding more dps is just not healty for the game

[somber wind]

To allow named items to be less negatively impactful on the game, I thought of a solution that lowers their distance from orange rarity:

• Named Items currently have their base 6 modifiers then their Named Modifier. The change would be making the Named Modifier take up an existing Modifier Slot.
• Keep Unnamed Unique rarity items with their base 6 modifiers so you have the choice between unnamed and named gear with the trade being 1 mod slot.

[abstract swallow]

rogue has butt (oh wow we can use that word again) for DPS, his big ticket items are all burst (ambush, WPA, backstab, etc)
and in terms of removing their skill variants, I think the perk & skill system itself is incredibly bad period, and a normal system of hotkeys and passive would be much better anyways

[placid canopy]

I think rogue with rondel is actually the highest raw dpm output when using back attack. Felling axe resets prob beats it without back attack though

But dpm rarely matters outside of bossing. Burst is mostly all that matters for pvp

Alt attack war maul barb might be close but idk what the rest timer is after the combo

[dapper crescent]

Not sure how to post suggestions in the other channel so I'll do it here:

1. I hope the Warlock is able to wield most primary daggers simply because I want them to have the option of a more spellcaster-esque identity, rather than "fighters with spells".

2. The longsword should be made into a versatile weapon, where you can one-hand it if you place an item in your secondary slot. It would function similarly to the Falchion, where it's a slower one hander, but in this case it'd have reach to make up for it.

It'd be nice and open up possibilities of swapping secondary weapon/item depending on the need. For example, swapping out the shield with a torch but still being able to fight using your main weapon, if someone appears.

Could also unequip the secondary item to doublegrip the longsword. It'd be nice to be able to swap to a shield without having to swap your main item, and still carry a bow in your second weapon slot.

[tropic crescent]

how are they negatively impactful on the game? theyre the best and rarest gear they should be much better than everything else

[somber wind]

They are leagues better than the tier right below it due to have 2 additional modifiers instead of just 1. Pull it back to the correct progression of just 1 additional modifier and keeping the ability to get non-named of the same rarity would allow for more build variety instead of them being hard required and instead them being a choice (a good choice but that 1 extra modifier instead of the named mod if rolled well enough could make a non-named item on par but still having the same rarity therefore not devaluing named items either).

This is purely to expand endgame build variety, having it be 2 modifiers instead of 1 and getting rid of non-named uniques will hurt build variety instead of expanding it.

[tropic crescent]

and even with what youre saying theyd STILL be better and theres nothing wrong with them being better lol theres always a bis piece of gear for games like this

[somber wind]

Certain ones for sure would but it would make the gap smaller so players could have the gap of skill and gear be closer. Getting a perfect rolled named item would likely be rarer than a perfect rolled non-named unique item. It'd make the build building better.

[tropic crescent]

why should the gap be smaller though? theyre incredibly rare they SHOULD be that much better

[somber wind]

The named mods still will keep them extremely powerful, unnamed unique items would be still equally rare

[tropic crescent]

yes but thats the point. currently named weapons are even more rare than normal uniques so why shouldnt they be better

[somber wind]

It's not that they're more rare, you cant get non-named uniques if there is a named version. They're replacing the non-named uniques.

[tropic crescent]

yeah I know and whats the issue with that

[somber wind]

I'm saying we should have both the named and non-named and so the non-named have the ability to compete named shouldn't basically be 1 rarity higher in function they should have the same amount of modifiers.

[gray skiff]

Would prefer if the current named items stay the way they are and they just make a named item tier that bridges the gap between current unnamed and named. My suggestion would be just having one attribute be garanteed with a high set value. Like for example a rondel dagger with 10% armor pen as default. So this tier would have 5 modifiers and an extra modifier that is just a set high value that has good synergy with the weapon. I feel like this would be a decent gap to fill the difference since I do feel that the way named items currently are is fine. Theyre supposed to be op and I really dont think that one modifier will change that. So in my opinion the more fun solution is adding a bridge rather than nerfing something

[late dome]

You are not funny and you never will be

[river dew]

Rofl

[somber glade]

Hey, I would like to know about your opinion on fighting mechanics. After playing and watching skilled players on yt I am afraid that actual weapon swinging could become very exploitable and turn the fighting into some weird spinning, quirky movement, tournament of glitched animations or just deeply unrealistic experience like something we can sometimes see in Mordhau or M&B. In my opinion there should be added some system that would set some limits that in mid and late stage of weapon swing you should be able to move your camera only a few degrees and your sensitivity should be dropping exponentially with time to be reset after hitting an object or a player. Maybe camera movement should be smoothed adding some inertia to the weapons. Thank you in advance for your thoughts on that.

[olive kettle]

true

[lone crescent]

For me it is not necessary, in a game like Mordhau you could bait parries and hide what kind of swing your are making and from what direction you are attacking while in DaD most weapons have 1 attack pattern, some 2,bhe could start spinning but you already know where and when the attack will reach you making spinnin almost useless

[olive kettle]

almost useless? preventing a headshot reduces damage massivelly, and high mobility rogues can even turn 180 degrees and walk away mid swing

[abstract swallow]

a turn/drag cap of some kind really does need to be implemented
the movement penalty for attacks also needs to be shifted to a proper lunge/swing, especially if they want to keep PvE oriented around never being hit

otherwise I'm really not looking forwards to John Fighter's optimal DPS being spinning like a league of legends character

[somber wind]

The gear does need to be nerfed eitherway though, I expect it to when they go for main balance passes. Cinder for example hitting 280 is probably not acceptable. Same for people having 95% damage reduction.

[glacial sphinx]

I think the most extreme turn rate stuff should be stopped yeah, otherwise it will be macro'd eventually. I do kinda like dodging arrows and swings etc by looking up/down and crouching etc though.

[lone crescent]

There are some mobs that require the 180 spin mid swing to be cleared with 0 damage with a Barbarian

If you limit the spinning even a random goblin or skeleton becomes hard for barbarian to deal with

[abstract swallow]

yeah, if and when they put a limit on the spin2win they'll have to tune up the way attack slowdown works

(also slowdown should take the HIGHER of your strafe/backpedal penalty and animation slowdown, not BOTH)

[lone crescent]

They still trade dps with dodging

[olive kettle]

Good
They have fear anyway

[graceful frost]

Barb zweihander beyblade

[compact barn]

Turn cap doesn’t even need to be significant to be impactful either. It would change a lot about combat interactions in a good way I would think

[graceful frost]

and it would also make double jump a bit less stupid in pvp. no stab instant 180 and dj away.

[lone crescent]

They just need to nerf air control and deny changing momentum with the second jump

[turbid light]

b... bu. but its so fun

[lone crescent]

@turbid light if you play Rogue

[turbid light]

i was born a rat

[tight meadow]

stamina

[somber wind]

I really hope people who keep suggesting matchmaking to have gear parity so people can only fight people of similar gear doesn't persuade Ironmace to actually do something about the matchmaking. It being random allows the game to actually be fun; You can be low gear and still kill someone if skilled enough, it's how I get gear initially early on.

[dawn adder]

Game free & cool skins = More players and More money = a good chance becoming mainstream game = more players & even more money.

[glacial sphinx]

better to have an upfront cost to make bans for botting etc more punishing

[somber wind]

Game free = Exponentially more bots, gold sellers and cheaters.

If the goal is purely money then not banning bots for the first month of them existing is ideal

[dawn adder]

That's people only Argument but i think being main stream game and the company making way more money to deal with anti cheat is hetter

[somber wind]

The problem is designer cheats almost never get caught and the game being free means that when they do get caught after a long period they just make a new account instead of having to buy the game again.

[glacial sphinx]

also its not true that a game cant be mainstream with an upfront cost

[somber wind]

Exactly

That said, I'mma copy paste something I said before about how banning should work

[dawn adder]

Yup that is true af but i feel like the game costing would still have cheaters because once they start making profit off selling gold they will have the money to throw ok more accounts

[somber wind]

Make it so cheaters get Shadow Banned instead of Banned so they are only matched up with only other cheaters and the trading post for them is only with other cheaters. Not notifying the player they've been shadow banned of course as well. This will provide 4 situations:

• The player never notices they're Shadow Banned and will continue to play like normal and complain about how there's too many cheaters.
• The player notices and creates a new account and buys the game again after being Shadow Banned for a little while (which is no different than a normal ban except it might keep them off of the game longer).
• The player notices and enjoys being allowed to play even if they're cheating and even though they're only fighting other cheaters. An example of this is Counter Strike Global Offensive's Hack Vs Hack servers being as popular as they are acting as a sort of containment for those players.
• The player notices and because they don't want to have to buy the game again on a new account they never play again.

In 3 of these situations we have players who are cheaters that never return to the main servers and don't negatively affect the game (and with them being allowed to play, any kind of cosmetic microtransaction how ever they end up existing would still be buyable by them so they would fund the servers as well). In contrast to the 3 success situations there's only 1 success situation for normal bans being the person decides to never come back because they'd have to spend money to buy the game again on a new account. The only upside to this situation is that cheaters will buy the game again funding it but this income is still possible with Shadow Banning although it'll just be less often but Shadow banning will be healthier for the game and will only hurt the amount from this specific source of income but not remove it.

[dawn adder]

Yes but the problem of them making money of it still remains and other idiots buying gold of them

[somber wind]

it would still have cheaters, there's no doubt but it adds a layer of payment required.

So for the people who BUY cheats and don't use them for selling gold they will stay banned. With shadow banning people selling gold can sell gold to the cheaters.

[dawn adder]

Ye tbh i just love playing mainstream games and this game has a good chance of becoming one but only free because you needs young teens and kids playing it

[somber wind]

As long as the game is cheap enough it's fine, in addition the game should have F2P weekends every month which will make people want to buy it.

[dawn adder]

Damn that's a way better idea

F2P weekends are smart since it's a extraction game they buy it so they don't lose all their things every week

[somber wind]

Can also do what some games do where you can get the game free using Twitch Prime every few months. This has shown to cause a botting issue if done too frequently but if done Bi-Seasonally it should be fine (Bi-Seasonal as in every other Season, not every half season).

[dawn adder]

🫡🫡🥹☝️☝️☝️

[somber wind]

Shadow Bans, Monthly F2P Weekends and Bi-Seasonal Free Game via Twitch Prime would be fairly ideal. For the actual price point I'd say $30 would be good for full release.

@dawn adder Don't forget btw, Tarkov got away with 2 and a half years of $120 Early Access. If a game is good enough, the players will come.

The landscape of course has changed with it not being the only extraction game so $30 is realistic mixed with it also being a reasonable price point for drawing players in where it still feels "cheap" but actually really isn't. This is only because people are expecting games to be $60 or more now.

[grim fiber]

Yeah it seems a great idea, but what if they just ban them?
They will buy another copy of the game and get banned again, isn't that better?

[dawn adder]

I like tarkov but I'd never pay so much money for a pixel game to waste time on😭 so my friend bought it for me and the cheaters ruined the shut out of it so at the end happy i never bought that garbage

[somber wind]

It's better for profit in the short term but not the long term. Short term they will keep buying the game (maybe, some will quit) but seeing bots around and cheaters will hurt the game for the players hurting long term (hence the issue with Tarkov right this moment). However with Shadow Banning because we WILL have cosmetic microtransactions (this is confirmed) the cheaters who are shadow banned will still end up buying the microtransactions and since they'll never be barred from the game even if they figure out they're shadow banned they might just decide to keep playing on the cheater/bots only servers and still pump money into Ironmaces wallets via the microtransactions.

In the long term allowing the cheaters their own space separated from normal players will actually provide more money. Some players will learn they are shadow banned and go and buy the game again, some will learn and never play again, some will never realize and complain about cheaters (lol) and some will realize and not care or enjoy the idea of hack vs hack (This is something popular in CS:GO).

[grim fiber]

Oh yeah i see, but i see unrealistic for cheaters to spend money on the game while shadown banned, but yeah it can happen

[lone crescent]

Paid or not it doesn't make any difference for cheaters, remember that Steam has famiky sharing,they could buy one copy and make infinite accounts with the same license

New World had to deactivate family sharing (i guess with a special permission from Steam) to stop bots

[olive kettle]

🤨 getting banned on csgo bans the host account

[lone crescent]

Yeah cause CSGO is made by Valve, a third party has no right to ask that info

And pretending Valve to rewiew every ban to affect the main account too is irrealistic

[glacial sphinx]

dont think its an issue, you can ban all accounts tied to a specific game license probably

[lone crescent]

You can, but not as a third party developer and is impossible for Steam to rewiew every ban on every game

[glacial sphinx]

why wouldnt dark n darker be able to block people from accessing their servers with a specific cd key

[lone crescent]

Cause they don't know the cd key, only Valve knows, you use your Dark and Darker account tied to Steam account

[glacial sphinx]

Dnno if thats true honestly, where did you get that info

[lone crescent]

Dark and Darker just checks if you have the license

[olive kettle]

why are you talking out of your as khanohn

[glacial sphinx]

sounds unlikely because many multiplayer games arent only on steam for example

[lone crescent]

In fact they use different types of account and crossplay beetween them or a third account (like Epic that requires your Epic account to play even from another platform)

You buy the game from Steam, not from Ironmace, only Steam has your data,they have access only to your activity on Dark and Darker

[glacial sphinx]

dnno im reading here on the steampage about how to ban specific keys as a developer

"If you need to ban product keys, that can be done from the Ban or Disable Steam Keys page.

Similar to querying a key, you may only ban a product key that you have the rights to. In the second step of the process, you can pick whether you wish to ban all keys in the batch, or just keys that have not yet been activated.

Please be very careful when banning product keys, as you could be removing access from legitimate customers.

You may ban keys to revoke access from legitimate users (for example, the end of a beta) or to revoke keys that have been stolen or purchased fraudulently. "

And this is just any key I guess, not even related to online where the developer can ban access to their servers. So feel like I need a source for some of those claims

[lone crescent]

I played New World and they were not able to stop bots with family sharing

That makes me think that is not that easy.
That statement isn't very clear btw

[olive kettle]

you couldn't take damage in new world with a minimized window so

[lone crescent]

Also there are even legit players using family sharing, is unfair to ban you cause your friend cheated with your license

[glacial sphinx]

I mean the family sharing issue doesnt have to be related to not being able to close accounts. It could just be an issue for running multiple bots from that account at the same time, making it more efficient

even though they might be closed. But in any case you can also disable family sharing as a developer, which it says here new world did

[lone crescent]

Well no, only one player can log for license

[olive kettle]

no?.........

[glacial sphinx]

I do think its fine yeah to terminate all linked accounts, cause someone cheated with the license. Its on you to take care who you give access to your license to

[lone crescent]

The others need to wait him to close the game

[glacial sphinx]

Anyway I think we've established it can be resolved either way, either by disabling family sharing or just banning the key. I mean there is no way developers would be okay with having no ability to stop people from accessing their game right, it just sounds so unrealistic even at face value

[lone crescent]

In New World i played with family sharing, they removed it and then Amazon gifted me a license to keep playing

[olive kettle]

unfortunate

[glacial sphinx]

one of the search results here is someone asking on an exploit/botting site how to bot multiple accs on new world, and they recommend family sharing and using a virtual machine, but mentioning that if you get sniped so will your main account

maybe they were originally banning NW accounts instead of steam keys, seems weird but yeah I think theres a solution for the issue

[lone crescent]

According to this old reddit post the developers have only a list of keys and don't know who redeemed them
https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/90yl9e/steam_devs_what_do_you_see_when_someone_redeems_a/

[olive kettle]

that's not the use case you are arguing, if servers are using steam auth then they can see which accounts are attempting to auth

[glacial sphinx]

thats probably about single player games yeah, anyway read the steampage about keys, developers can clearly disable specific keys

[lone crescent]

Yes they know the account but they don't know wich key you are using

[olive kettle]

they do

[somber wind]

So this actually happens in CS:GO, banned players still buying skins and crates for use on Hack vs Hack servers.

[somber wind]

Yeah for sure family share does need to be disabled for Dark and Darker.

[grim fiber]

oh then i agree, let them pay and play vs eachother xD

[somber wind]

There's some amount of interest in Hack vs Hack in CS:GO, it's people trying to use better hacks against eachother ignoring if it'd ban them or not so just going fullbore and either using or making more and more absurd hacks. It's interesting to watch.

With Dark and Darker the trade post would also have to be separated so they don't inject wealth into the game and devalue named items unlike CS:GO where it's just cosmetics but it should be fine.

[lone crescent]

They know if and when it got acfivated, they see if it is still active but they don't see the account

[somber wind]

In the end, allowing people to decide to be ok with fighting other hackers/bots and only other hackers/bots gives the ability to still profit off of those players without it negatively affecting the actual game.

[olive kettle]

yes they do if it's using steam auth

[lone crescent]

Maybe, but then they need to manually check milions of keys to find yours to deactivate

[somber wind]

Old MMOs that don't enforce their rules anymore but still have their servers up and still get players who are often botting or hacking shows that it also works (where with this it would just be Shadow Ban servers instead of the main servers). An interesting example of it is Neopets (which, insane that still exists right?) which almost everyone cheats in since they use flash games to produce ingame currency so people will inject code into the flash game to go to the reward screen every microsecond and obviously nothing can be done about that when it's all based in flash lol.

[olive kettle]

you are arguing that there is a little gnome inside of a server that is manually checking each player trying to log in?

[lone crescent]

No, if they ban you they need to find the key you are using with auth, they need to manually find the key in their list and then ban you

This assuming that they really see your key with auth.
I believe it is crypted in some way by Steam

[glacial sphinx]

if its "crypted" so the server cant recognize it, how would it know its a valid key

[olive kettle]

GetPublisherAppOwnership
The JSON response will contain the following fields:
ownersteamid uint64 SteamID for the actual owner. If the app is owned via Family Sharing, ownersteamid will be the actual owner. Otherwise will be the same steamID passed in

[lone crescent]

They use Steam servers for auth, it's Steam that need to confirm you have right to play, there are really 0 reasons to share that info with developers

[glacial sphinx]

aren't we discussing a completely valid reason right now first of all, and second even if it was a derivative key, it could be banned

[olive kettle]

Do you know what an API even is

[lone crescent]

Yes but why Steam should share the key with devs? They don't need to know that information

[olive kettle]

They need that information to know who holds the licence of the game

[lone crescent]

Steam needs it, devs just trust Valve for auth

[glacial sphinx]

to provide access to people who deserve it, and not to those who don't. To be able to moderate their game via bans. Clearly developers need to be able to

[olive kettle]

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/webapi/ISteamUser

[lone crescent]

To ban they just need the account name

[somber wind]

I feel like at this point this is what's needed based on what people are saying plus what I was mentioning:

• Shadow Banning which seperates the players into their own Servers and Trade Servers. They're still allowed to buy Microtransactions.
• Family Sharing will Shadow Ban anyone who uses it from Dark and Darker if one of the accounts is Shadow Banned.
• F2P Weekend once per month every 4th week.
• Every 6 months, Twitch Prime can get you a full copy of the game.
• $30 Price for a reasonable price that would draw people in due to feeling cheap.

It would provide an adequate ban system that will catch people instead of them rebuying it at a decent rate, deal with the family sharing evade, allow people who are unsure to try the game out and inject some players into the game twice a year.

[grim fiber]

anyway f. the cheaters, what's your idea on red stairs? were it good? would you change it a bit?
I felt that it wasn't the best, with fixed position and usually ending up out of circle

[somber wind]

They originally wanted to go F2P but to deal with cheaters it's B2P, the Micro is still there to maintain the game instead of a Membership. So having the ability to get it for free twice a year as well as F2P weekends once per month will provide a nice injection of players and keep it going with minimal veil piercing for cheating. It not being paid for was never an issue, it was the potential cheaters so it being free at some points in the year wouldn't stop it from making a profit via it's Microtransactions which was the original intent in the first place.

[somber wind]

I liked the red stairs personally. That said I feel like ruins is abit too crazy for it to be an entrance to the Crypt as the Crypt very much feels good as a first floor and Ruins feels more punishing than the Crypt. So if ruins would get a lower floor then it shouldn't be the Crypt it should be harder than the crypt. That said I'm not against it remaining a 1 floor map. We don't need every map to have 2 or 3 floors.

[grim fiber]

I like the red stairs concept too, i just don't like how they managed to make it work with zone
the fact that open only on last circle, so normally they would be out of zone
Or people just had to wait in zone for 3/4 mins straight afk rest...

[somber wind]

Keeping the mechanic in the back pocket for another map might be for the best and instead just put a boss room below the Ruins where the stairs would all lead to and just have them be open. Could even be a larger group boss due to the amount of stair cases.

[somber wind]

I think the exit stairs in Goblin Caves feels right, maybe Red stairs using the same mechanic though isn't good. Unsure personally. I'd be fine with them opening a little earlier (the Red stairs).

[grim fiber]

Even if the red stairs are always open, you would need to wait for the previous floor to collapse (like in helL) so it would end up again with people waiting 5/6 mins in the waiting room, and doesnt feel right

I really don't know how to make it smoother, that's why i am asking here, maybe someone had some brillant idea

[glacial sphinx]

stairs downward would be okay if it opened a bit earlier and the final circle always had one near. Think the main issue with opening too early is that you would spend a lot of time in the pre game area of the next level currently. If they intend to migrate you into a new server that wouldnt be an issue, even though I personally dont like the migrate idea for other reasons

[somber wind]

I wouldn't want them to be always open if they are Red Stairs, only if they were an entrance for a boss. I was just thinking if they're red stairs they should open earlier.

[somber wind]

I also dislike the migrating but I'm pretty sure that's the plan right now.

[grim fiber]

Yeah thats my concern, waiting 5 min in the waiting area doesnt feel right, waiting camping the red stairs in zone doesnt feel right either... idk

[somber wind]

Oh no for sure, what I was thinking is the stairs could open when the ring gets within a certain distance of them.

[lone crescent]

I don't like the idea of 3 floor in general, theymake the game too kong and most people will eventually die in first making 2 floors mostly pvp.
I don't like matchmaking on second floor either

Another problem is that first floor isn't worth enough to play for geared players and could feel like a waste of time

[glacial sphinx]

yeah personally think it might be better to have ruins -> crypts, and crypts -> inferno as two separate queues with 2 floors each

[somber wind]

Ehhh I don't like that either, I think we should just have Ruins be it's own map without a 2nd floor similar to Goblin Caves. Crypts -> Inferno is it's own thing.

[glacial sphinx]

like a shorter version of blue crypts with a boss after ruins imo could work

[somber wind]

I'm not against maps have 3 floors but I don't think Crypts should be apart of it.

[lone crescent]

They could make something similar to Crypt, or an alternative version, accessible only from Ruins

[somber wind]

I'm not against that. That said I'd like an accessibility option for Blue Crypts since for people with Neurogical Vertigo (which is affects about 25 million people in the US), intense blue light like that can make them dizzy (I'm one of those people).

[lone crescent]

One of the reason i like this game is that matches are fast paced, i don't want 30+ minutes games

[somber wind]

I couldn't do blue crypts when they were blue without feeling like I needed to throw up.

[somber wind]

Well that's the thing, I think having a variety of map sets where it can be 1 Floor, 2 Floor and 3 Floor (or even more) would be fine. Not every mapset needs to have more than 1 or 2 floors.

[lone crescent]

@somber wind they clearly need some accessibility option for you

[somber wind]

If you're not down for 30+ minute games then you just don't do the 3rd floor/don't do 3 floor maps and take the escape portal. If you want loot exclusive to that mapset everything is tradable so the trading post can get you that for sure.

[lone crescent]

[somber wind]

In one of the tests I wussed out on doing bosses lol but I made enough gold to get unique gear from the trading post.

I think it's funny, I wasn't afraid of high roller and fighting other players but I was afraid of the bosses (just hadn't learned them yet and was holding too much of a grip on my gear).

Ghost king especially scared me.

Oh on the mention from the previous, I like that Goblin Caves is 1 floor; I don't think we need more than 1 floor for it. That said I'm not against a different Solo only map having more floors.

[lone crescent]

@somber wind i have like 30h in total, i'm still afraid of skeletons lol

[somber wind]

Dude they need to nerf the Crossbow Skeletons, they nerfed the Bow Skeletons correctly where they wouldn't always hit you in the head but the Crossbow Skeletons are using that OLD aiming AI LUL

[lone crescent]

They just need some noise before they shoot like archers

[somber wind]

Yeah but they shouldn't always aim for your head and shouldn't be perfect. I remember when the Archers NEVER missed and always aimed for the head before being nerfed.

[glacial sphinx]

predictability can make them easier to deal with in some sense though

For example, if im 10 hp and have a shield and they shoot at a random part of me, its more likely i'll die than if they always shoot at the head, cause I'll know where to block

Personally think they could consider trying the headshot multiplier at 1.25 in general, but that might be a bit of a hot take

[somber glade]

It doesn't have to limit your character hitbox spin, I'm talking about weapon only, like you move your crosshair smoothly, but the weapon follows it with small or bigger delay, on small moves unnoticeable but when you are trying to attack with 180 or even 90 degree swing it will slow that attack down so you will have to hit as intended with move pattern and that would limit watterfalling

[olive kettle]

hotter take: 1x headshot multiplier on ranged attacks

[glacial sphinx]

Thats too spicy for me I think it feels good to have at least some incentive to go for the head. But varying per weapon type could be an option and having the ranged hs multiplier lower than melee could be good. There's already a degree of headshot reduction via helms as well.

[somber wind]

even hotter take: 1x headshot multiplier on NPC ranged attacks

tbh I would prefer it to be how it is, just have the same treatment that the Bow Skeleton had to the Crossbow Skeleton (Make it able to miss and not always aim at the head).

[dawn adder]

I pray double jump for rouge stays

[olive kettle]

as a skill with 15 second cooldown

[glacial sphinx]

3 charges on a 20 second recharge best I can do

[granite plinth]

69 times jump is minimum i require for rogues

[dawn adder]

Keep double jump

[worn cape]

i would love to see like a competitive spectating mode for like the highroller dungeons

[strange idol]

Can they add backwards long jump to game? Ideally it would be base kit, or maybe perk (rogue? fighter? plumber?).

[graceful frost]

I think rogue already kinda has it with the one skill. and it would be aids for pvp. rogues just stabbing once and jumping back away before they could get it. pretty much like doublejump but prolly worse

[stuck ledge]

I feel like the bard class definitely needs a buff. I think that since the bard obviously seems to come from French or Spanish background from his clothes and weapons I think that one skill that could be fairly balanced would be a parry used with the rapier. It could have a small window as the enemy attacks and prevents the opponent from attacking for maybe 1 - 0.75 seconds and has a cooldown of 4-5 seconds. Given as they cant use shields I feel like this would be a fairly balanced change that would give the bard more of a fighting chance than to just rely on teammates.

[placid canopy]

Bard is much different than playtest 5. We saw videos of them a bit in a recent video they put out

[stuck ledge]

Even so, still would be a good addition. Not too overpowered or able to be spammed.

[placid canopy]

Well they get shields now so not really solving anything

[compact barn]

Think bards can also yeet the drum?

[placid canopy]

Probably since it's just an item? Unless the click does something dif for the bard compared to every other class lol

[compact barn]

I really hope they can as well lol

Emergency drum yeet

[strange idol]

How else they get up infinite stairs

[pure pollen]

imagine there's a "jester" perk for bards, which makes thrown instruments bounce upwards and slightly towards you, similar to something like dravens axes, and each concecutive caught instrument increases the damage dealt to that target by 15%

[compact barn]

This would be hilarious lol

[hollow wave]

jokester 2.

[somber wind]

same there is no reason to nerf it, rogues should be slippery; I've talked about how it's a Ruins issue and not a Rogue issue

In combat being able to dodge is something they should be capable of, it is the classes identity.

[compact barn]

Rogue with double jump and hand crossbow is untouchable on any map though. It's legitimately insanely good. Doubly so since they popped both things in at once. Handcrossbow will need nerfed at the very least if they don't nerf double jump, but that's a poor way to do it considering they're not the only class with access to handcrossbow

[somber wind]

Hand Crossbow is a seperate issue that also needs to be solved. It should have damage fall off past 1 rooms distance and have a sharper arc so it's hard to aim it at longer distances (hand crossbows are NOT known for going as far as they're going).

[compact barn]

I agree and that's a good way to balance it I feel. Even if they left the damage as is with it's drop off and just made the arc far more severe it would be a good start to getting it in a good line with other weapons

[somber wind]

I did not have major issue with Rogues when I was playing Fighter (I wasn't doing 95% damage reduction build as a side note) or Wizard (I did have some issues but none that I didn't have before double jump). You have to play around it and that's moving INTO attacks instead of stutter stepping or doing retreating actions like we did before the double jump.

I think people got fed up with it on the ruins and then refused to innovate their playstyle to counter it thinking it was just busted and would get nerfed.

[dawn adder]

Yup couldn't have said it better

[lone crescent]

@somber wind as a Barbarian is almost impossible to kill a Rogue in a 1v1 fight in an open room, the only way a Barbarian could win is with throwing acmxes

[dawn adder]

Not true. If you can't do invisible steps good then your 2 shot Body and 1 shot to head

[placid canopy]

Maybe if the barb is using a war maul... This take is complete opposite of reality otherwise if the rogue is melee

[dawn adder]

Rogues usually have once chance to take out the enemy if they fail they usually die but a experienced Rouge will run away and try again

I watched the most op like 8000 gold kit rouge guy die after winning like 20 rounds straight to one barb because he had a op axe and got lucky with a headshot

[lone crescent]

A Rogue with a Rapier is fast enough to hit you and double jump away, any Barbarian trying to swing a 2h can't catch him

This is true for battle axe, double axe, war maul and felling axe

The only way Barbarian was playable in P5 was with horseman's axe and hatchet

[dawn adder]

Well you have to time stuff that's where skill comes to play

[lone crescent]

That's just false, Rogue can hit you and run out of range faster then your swing animation

If the Barbarian has no franciscas and no map advantage he's dead

[flint cedar]

You just can’t fight barb with hatchet+Achilles strike as a rogue. No way at all

[lone crescent]

I know, i don't like the fact that 2 handed wapons are almost unplayable cause a random rogue with grey gear could kill you in a 1v1.
In P5 twohanders were trash for pvp

[green night]

quintuple jump for the ranger to balance out the rogues new triple jump

[coral merlin]

A rogue with grey gear would have to stab you 10+ times, if that’s happening it’s a skill issue.

[late dome]

[lone crescent]

He can stab you 10 times cause you have no way ti hit him with your main weapon unless he makes a mistake

[coral merlin]

Let me guess felling axe is the only weapon you use? The one with the shortest range right? But ooooouu those one shots :p

Quarterstaff is really good for smushing rogues

I’m gonna be real pal, your playing barbarian your options are… smash. The issue isn’t other classes it’s how limited barbarians are atm.. but should a barb even have more options? Idk maybe for balance sake, lore wise it’s right on the money though.

[lone crescent]

You are just wrong, I played every Barb weapons and 2h are just bad atm

The weapon I played most is horseman's axe cause is the best atm period

[coral merlin]

Have you played any other classes?

[lone crescent]

Yes

I'm not complaining about Barb being bad (cause that's far from truth), I'm just complaining about 2h on Barb being bad

There's no reason to choose double axe or felling over horseman

[coral merlin]

You’ve mostly been complaining about rogue actually, and they are the reason you say 2h is bad..

Double axe is bad I agree, felling is great though and what most barbs run. I don’t think you give quaterstaff and zwei enough credit.

Quarterstaff will absolutely roll a rogue, give er a try 🙂

[lone crescent]

Yes I know, but I need a bunch of throwing axes or a faster weapon in second slot otherwise I'm dead if I challenge a Rogue (or he challenges me)

[coral merlin]

Yea that is the class match up tho, slowest\tankyest vs fastest/squishiest. It is literally either he pokes you to death cause you miss OR you hit him ONCE and he dies

[lone crescent]

Rage is the only other option but the Rogue could just wait 6 seconds and challenge after

[lone crescent]

Yes but you should have a chance to hit him, the difference in speed is too much. I think buffing the movement speed while swinging could be a good fix

[coral merlin]

You get a chance to hit him every time he hits you

[lone crescent]

You don't, he hits you and go out of range faster then your swing animation, that's a fact

[coral merlin]

You need to time your swings better then

[lone crescent]

He hits you during recovery then and is even worse

[late dome]

Yeah you cant act like it's a sure thing that the rogue is going to dodge every single swing, they only need to slip up once and they're toast. Plus there's still throwing axes and other options. Not to mention this is still a team based game and you really should have teammates helping anyway in most scenarios

[coral merlin]

100% barb is a team class, haste, heals, arrows any of these make you super deadly

[coral merlin]

In a 1v1 tho, rogue is your counter. Get better is all I can say at this point

[lone crescent]

He is the only class that have a matchup with almost 0 chance to survive, any other class have better chances against their counters

[coral merlin]

Bro it’s not a 0% chance when I played rogue I got killed by barbs a few times

[lone crescent]

Bard was an exception in PT5, we don't know how strong he will be

[coral merlin]

To be fair it was mosty pickpocketing so I was in squish range lol

[lone crescent]

I watched Repoze videos and I feel bad anytime he fight a Barbarian, he got almost no chance

[coral merlin]

Yea but repoze is a highly skilled rogue main… you can use that freak as a scale

The average rogue isn’t gonna Juke you 100% of the time, they will slip up and that’s how a rogue dies period. You can use the “he will just escape” argument for a rogue vs ANY class… that’s what a rogue does

[lone crescent]

Barbarian could be skilled to, but unless he got throwables the matchup can be considered lost by Barb

[lone crescent]

No cause other classes are faster at moving and attacking or got ranged. Cleric has spells an Judgment

[coral merlin]

Have you ever watched sequisha run solos? He nukes people

Also no, I can escape from every class except another rogue

Maybe a wizard running you down or fighter but usually they run out of steam

[lone crescent]

I'm talking about fighting and dodging, not escaping

[coral merlin]

Ohh

Yea I’m pretty confident I can fight and dodge any class except rogue

[lone crescent]

Any other class could fight and win almost any 1v1, while Barbarian need to accept his death in some situation

[coral merlin]

How does every class win their 1v1s? Also yea barb only good for breaking chests. That’s why I only put 50hrs on it compared to the 100s in every other class ( except ranger)

[pure pollen]

what

try fighter vs wiz, or ranger/wiz vs rogue, or bard vs anyone

they're all super polarized matchups, and the only completely cursed matchup barbs have is a full plate fighter

other than that, barbs have a pretty decent matchup against most other classes

[coral merlin]

I been trying to say this, but I think they got traumatized in ruins or something lol

[lone crescent]

Fighter vs Wizard, Wizards lands 3 spells Fighter dead. Invis + Haste to keep distance.
Ranger and Wizard vs Rogue, Rogue could go invisible, is fast and can dodge and catch them and they're dead if he reach them (and he can). Also Rogue is never forced to engage a fight, he has control on when to start a fight vs anyone.
Bard doesn't count cause it was an incomplete class.

Barbarian vs Rogue, you are too slow to get close, if you get close your swing animation is slow and during the animation your speed drops so much that the Rogue could go out of range and you miss

[pure pollen]

exactly? there are SUPPOSED to be matchups that you are super unfavored to win 1v1

[coral merlin]

Tapped you in

[pure pollen]

x)

[lone crescent]

I know you could use throwables or you could use Quarterstaff and Horseman or Hatchet, my point is Double Axe, Felling and Maul that are no match for a Rogue

[pure pollen]

so what you're saying a slow weapon is bad against a fast class

thats insane

[lone crescent]

Do it on reverse then, Fighter could sprint and catch the Wizard, Ranger needs to hit the Rogue even twice to kill him from range and Wizard needs to land a few spells, they are even matchups, none of those classes counter each other

[pure pollen]

Fighter could sprint and catch a wizard

right

You're telling me, the primary magic dps doesnt counter the primary physical damage tank?

Or that the stealth melee assasin doesnt counter the primary ranged dps

Like what are you actually even saying

[lone crescent]

They are not hard counters, both have good chance to win the fight

[pure pollen]

thats what a counter is

[lone crescent]

That's not the same for 2 handed Barbarian and Rogue, that's a hard counter

[pure pollen]

OBVIOUSLY there shouldnt be 100-0% winrate matchups

[lone crescent]

The fight should be closer, I don't want to stomp Rogues with double axe, I just want a chance

[pure pollen]

XAEFGWGSG GXDDDXD you are actually completely delusional if you thing barb vs rogue is even close to as hard of a counter as wiz vs fighter

[lone crescent]

It is the most one-sided matchup

[pure pollen]

you have to be trolling

[coral merlin]

*traumatized

This is why I love rogue 😂 hopefully warlock is just as fun

[lone crescent]

@coral merlin i didn't even played Ruins, just a few games, I am not traumatized lol

[coral merlin]

I feel like you ONLY played a few games period, sorry

[lone crescent]

I played enough

[pure pollen]

clearly not

[coral merlin]

See if we were in the dungeon, it would be very easy to tell you would either die in 5 seconds or like 15. Unfortunately we can only speculate

[lone crescent]

Literally everyone who played mostly Barbarian could confirm that in PT5 everything compared to horseman and hatchet was bad

[coral merlin]

Your right, everyone that plays mosty barb sounds exactly like you

[lone crescent]

Double axe for example is good only for pve

[late dome]

@thorn sleet can you confirm this

[coral merlin]

Barb smash

[lone crescent]

The only real answer you got is "play Quarterstaff"

[coral merlin]

No no no, play a different class lol

[lone crescent]

This doesn't make sense

[thorn sleet]

Horseman’s axe only way to play. Chop chop chop

[thorn sleet]

Facts, only reason I carried one so I could 1 shot skeletons

[late dome]

Alright it's confirmed, this guy is the #1 barb after all

[coral merlin]

Confirmed

[stuck perch]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
About the above suggestion, just give clerics a holy symbol item. Make it an off-hand item so a cleric can go Holy symbol + mace. I'm imagining a holy symobol looking like ank, or a seal with chains or something.

[ripe turtle]

i agree. holy symbol could be something related to dark and darker universe. as long as there aren't any balancing issues, i'd say why not.

[faint onyx]

Remove the ability to inspect players in the lobby

[dawn adder]

No it adds fear when seeing someone way stronger then you. The only thing that I don't like about it is when people see you have golden key they might camp the door so just make golden key invis

[smoky yoke]

oh yea
usually i see people trying to run in the pre lobby so that people don't get scouted

[faint onyx]

Theres nothing good from it

[olive kettle]

the highest geared player should be displayed in loading screen

[late dome]

Throwable hornet nests

Or even better, throwable bees nests that you can keep in storage to boost the super secret farming mechanics they've been hiding from us all this time

[tropic crescent]

I'd be down. Let them know whats coming for them

or give me like an apex legends style thing where they show the top squad in the lobby from the last game

[dawn adder]

They should glow in the waiting lobby

[late dome]

Anyone that extracts the game beforehand should get a victory crown like in fortnite for the next lobby

[dawn adder]

😂sure sounds good hope they do something like that

[grave veldt]

that's a hard one to picture but I guess if they did they could just have it as a scroll with handwriting on it, because I'm not sure futuristic banners would fit haha

but im pretty sure they already had some names of top 1 players on items didn't they in the tavern/camp?

[tropic crescent]

they have wanted posters and weapons of past top killers. and im not saying it as realistic I just think itd be cool

[grave veldt]

nah I know, but yeah I do like seeing stuff like that in the game based on the current userbase, it's a nice touch

[tropic crescent]

100% being recognized in a game you love to play is one of the best feelings

[soft finch]

Hunt showdown moment

[warm summit]

I would really love Kobolds as a playable race in the game, I know the shorter player model might be a challenge for ballancing, but being able to play as one of those scrungly little lizards would make me and im sure many others very happy

[lone crescent]

What about Dragonoid?

[nimble spoke]

paladin. this is my idea for a character class for dark and darker.

this class would start with a two-handed hammer. it would have a Divine Amulet. I'm not sure how I would want the amulet to work. but I know then they'd have to pull out the amulet to summon Magic and then they have two options of types of spells they can use they can only use one type in a game when they're at main menu they can choose between the two different types the two different type I would recommend is in enchantment magic which would increase the weapons offensive by a small amount but what in also add an elemental damage or i world add a healing magic

on top of that if they were to use the enchantment option the enchantments would only last a certain amount of time or intel you draw a new weapon or thay world intel holster your weapon

[somber wind]

If there's any race I really really want it's Ratfolk

[median owl]

Give wiz his 5 will back, worst class on the charts , this is a demand xD

[abstract swallow]

alright they will give his 5 strength back

[halcyon zodiac]

They should make double jump where you can only double jumpey when you are standing right, left or infront of another player/ teamates,enemy players or 2 Legged Ai. THAT way theres less map exploit potential and still outplay potential, and less double jump D bag SPAM. So more of a shoulder jump maybe since theres talk of making double jump available through enchanted/ legendary BOOTS.

[late dome]

barbarians should be able to throw friendly rogues

[tropic crescent]

why stop at friendly? let em throw any rogues

[late dome]

🤯

[warm summit]

A transmutation spell for wizard that lets you turn items into its value in gold

[spark crest]

If I trade that item would i violate human right?

[ember magnet]

Magic exists, why not just animated posters of “adventures grand success” or some other news article style poster.

[dawn adder]

Give rouge triple jump 🦘 double jump was just not enough

[gray skiff]

Sounds a bit too much like cleric to me. Personally would think its cool if theyll release specifications later on with talents. With which cleric could be a paladin. Gaining buffs for plate armour and hammers etc. Or be a brewmaster, or monk etc etc

[gray skiff]

Honestly just let rogues noclip through the map

[ripe turtle]

Every race have their own voice lines like groans of pain would be nice.

[real trellis]

Make it play a xylophone sound when a skeleton-skin player gets hit

[ripe turtle]

and consecutive hits play "Spooky Scary Skeletons" music.

[dawn adder]

True they are rouges after all

[gray skiff]

I mean there already is a sound for hitting skeletons

[somber wind]

Actually, if we were to get an item that gives double jump. Should it stack and give triple jump if you have the perk or just be redundant?

[dawn adder]

Well I believe it would be unrealistic to the items because till now every item makes sense with the boosts they give you

The only things you can wear unrealistic things are rings but there is magic so it makes sense

[lone crescent]

4 perks plus double jump on boots/ring it isn't a nerf

[rigid prawn]

Don’t forget you could probably wear the ring on any class so you can double jump on your precious barb

[lone crescent]

That seems even more OP

[abstract swallow]

That seems even more FUN

[rigid prawn]

Sounds like it’s leveling the playing field to me

[abstract swallow]

If everyone has DJ with a cool down and that can't be used while slowed, I'll be just as happy as if only rogue has it.

[lone crescent]

Imagine a Barbarian flying on you with double axe to oneshot you

[abstract swallow]

He needs to imagine me and my Wizard and Ranger friend cutting his team down like a methed up AC-130 with Death Grips on blast

[summer drift]

The ring of jumping on D&D does just that. I'd be happier with it being a magic item than a class feature tbh

[somber wind]

I'm personally not against having both, and it'd be fine if it was redundant for the class instead of stacking

[dawn adder]

If there was a double jump ring I would most deff play barbarian double jumping on people

[abstract swallow]

more double jumps, more movement tech
the children yearn for the S4 League

[rigid prawn]

Would be cool to see more movement options like wall climbing, barb could have a unique animation of punching his hands into the wall to get a hold lol

[abstract swallow]

the game does need some kind of mantling/climbing system
those quake 1 ladders are not gonna cut it

[subtle pilot]

Dont know if that is the right place to post it. But i heared the killfeed should be removed kompletely ? I would like to have atleast a grp killfeed where u can just see the kills that u or a grp mate did. Would be ways better than no killfeed at all

[olive kettle]

do you hate talking to the group that much

[abstract swallow]

killfeed should be a spectator-exclusive thing anyways, all it does it mislead noobs and stroke the e-peen of pubstompers

[somber wind]

I like the killfeed since I can count the people left, that said highroller doesn't have it which is also nice; I like both tbh

[lone crescent]

The stairs need to be fixed, even a slow climbing animation is better then the current situation.

Climbing is no for me, I like it as it is

[abstract swallow]

I honestly think a full climbing system might be fine, especially if we get more open/outdoors area
but at the very least being able to pull yourself up ledges and ladders would be nice, especially if they want to do more shit like the inferno jumping puzzles

[late dome]

Grapple hooks

[buoyant sparrow]

I suggest they bring the game back 👍🏿

[rigid prawn]

Seconded

[somber wind]

Came up with some more unique items:

* Eternal (Mace): Inflicts a Debuff that deals 1 Magic Damage per second until you die or get too far from the afflicted player.

* Fate (Shield): Heals all damage taken while blocking over 3 seconds.

* Adaption (Amulet): Transfer 10 of 1 stat to another stat of your choosing upon being equipped. Cannot be unequipped during an Adventure.

* Ghast (Stilleto): Upon killing an enemy, gain Invisibility for 8 seconds (Same buff as from Wizard).

* Chorus (Longsword): Deals an additional 4 Magic Damage per enemy hit within the last 10 seconds.

* Paragon (Double Axe): If you hit an enemy that has higher Strength then you, your Strength is increased to match their strength for the next 10 seconds.

* Plunderer (Leather Bonnet): 8% chance for an additional piece of loot to appear in chests and enemies when searched.

* Windfall (Amulet): Generates 25 Gold every 5 minutes split between as many slots as possible.

[abstract swallow]

make Fate heal all damage taken while blocking over 3s, rename Elegy to Chorus, and make Windfall's effect fill every empty slot in your inventory with 1 unstacked gold coin

[somber wind]

Thoughts on Eternal, I worry it's abit too much. Same for Adaption. I liked your changes though, I applied em :V

[abstract swallow]

Eternal seems exactly like the kind of goofy damage effect the devs would add and I would look forward to kill montages with it
Adaptation being choosable is just dummy thicc damage stacking, instead you should make it +10/-5 status for a short duration depending on what stimulus (getting hit: +AGI, object interaction: +RSC, etc) triggers the buff (max 1? 2?) so it's peak goofball hours

[somber wind]

That sounds hilarious (adapation) and yeah I agree with you about Eternal, I was just unsure if something that you could make stronger like that would be safe for the game lol.