suggestion-discussion

[obtuse lichen]

Or adding regret feature to rollback changes (for price ofc)

Well personally for me having goals thats what keeps me playing in the game
when game becomes repetitive and you already did everything that you can and tested everything i usually drop the game until further update
unless im playing competitively
Grind might force to spend more time in the game

Dark and darker one that i actually play for pvp because it's really fun and something new for me idk if i gonna get the same feeling about pvp after more than 500 hours

That's what concerning me rn

This whole class based combat system is really good when it's not only bound to your equipment and what lvl you are actually

skill matters

Idk what madman is going to have fun killing the skellies for 1000 time

I actually like to see some randomized mob spawns when they add more creatures to the game

pve is only fun when you fight multiple different monsters at the same time

[glacial sphinx]

Well clearly the current way the game is set up hooked you, thats why I say changing that formula of progression might mess things up for others starting the game.

For things like steam retention is the most important for the first 2 hours, since that is the refund period, so you want them to immediately have fun in those first 2 hours and that's where the early perk choices can matter.

Of course I also agree that the game needs to stay fun for longer even than it does now. So far we have had playtests lasting up to about two weeks and it'll need to remain enjoyable longer than that. But you do that with more levels, different bosses and enemies etc. If you put a lot of character power behind a grind then you end up with less skill based gameplay, or an environment that is really punishing to new players.

[obtuse lichen]

@glacial sphinx im not against adding new mobs and different bosses i like how pvpve aspect is implemented
and i actually like to see more maps

but adding purely pve based maps idk if that a good idea

And im actually looking forward to see 4 man teams

[glacial sphinx]

I dont think they should, it'll mess up the economy if theres any rewards.

[obtuse lichen]

That's what my argument was before with these 2 guys

[glacial sphinx]

The only way I could see a PVE only map working, is if its a rare reward from the normal PVP maps or something.

[obtuse lichen]

I told them exactly the same thing

Making 5 floored maps is not a good way to go at all

[glacial sphinx]

yeah think its not the best either, since you will be either full by then or the earlier maps are pointless for you

[obtuse lichen]

It will require full loot system overhaul

[glacial sphinx]

But the way I was thinking it maybe could work is if say you killed a B3 boss and 5% of the time it drops a treasure map, and then you take that with you and leave. And then you can queue up for the treasure map once, and get some hard PVE.

[obtuse lichen]

My suggestion is to make events sometimes

[glacial sphinx]

so its essentially a PVP map reward still. But yeah dnno maybe the game needs the threat of PVP in general to be at its best.

yeah events is not too much different from that, assuming you mean that its like a zone you can queue for occasionally only

[obtuse lichen]

and mb add some random modifiers for matches

[glacial sphinx]

theres a lot of stuff they can do, and I think they know that since the map where you queue for stuff lends itself to these ideas perfectly

[summer drift]

Same. It gets boring when you know what enemies will spawn and where. Different enemy layouts for every map may be worth considering if it doesn't take too much work

With multiple map layouts and 4 or more enemy layouts it would be almost impossible to memorize them all

[rigid prawn]

Full loot system overhaul is more then likely coming. Backpacks and weight still need to be added. This will allow you to potentially carry more loot so making bigger / more maps won’t be as big of a deal. The devs have said they want to make as many maps as possible, and they also have plans for a dragon boss fight, which could require teamwork/ multiple teams to fight. Creating a “Raid” that’s a Pve equivalent to high roller thats 5 floors or something like it would be a welcome addition to the game imo.

They’ve left a lot of room open on the map for additional locations to be added. If done well the game would benefit from the variety. Orc themed map when?

[summer drift]

That sounds sick

I imagine orcs are gonna be so strong you're gonna want some decent gear just to face them

As a bard the difference between bringing in the starting rapier and a 7 gp falchion from the shop is night and day, so this game's gonna get real interesting once the economy gets more fleshed out and pve has more variety

A weight/armor system may be a pretty cool way to offset faster classes stealing everything while running around naked

[rigid prawn]

Something needs to be done about naked meta for sure

[obtuse lichen]

I think they should remove movement speed penalties from cloth clothing

Its not worth having -5 movement speed for gray +15 armor adventurer tunic

Some clothing is actually useless unless in has an insane stat rolls

[rigid prawn]

I agree. Clothes don’t slow you down irl, they shouldn’t in DAD

[fierce relic]

it would be good idea if they delete rogue. but making them even faster ???

[obtuse lichen]

wdym them making everyone faster

More people will actually start using cloth clothes instead of instantly dropping them on the ground

[rigid prawn]

It would raise the base ms a bit but it would affect all classes. They could always tune down base ms to compensate as well

[fierce relic]

that would nerf plate armor

[obtuse lichen]

how?

[rigid prawn]

They could adjust the values on plate as welll.

[fierce relic]

increse the speed gap

[obtuse lichen]

how?

people will run naked otherwise

also it's so easy to stack armor i had more than 60% reduction on the cleric most of the matches

armor wasn't really in the good spot last playtest

[fierce relic]

i mean it would increase the diference in ms between plate armor fighter/ clerics vs everyone else. there for it would be a nerf to plate

[obtuse lichen]

well armor was really strong last playtest

[rigid prawn]

If they did nothing else but change defaults ms values on cloth then yes, but that would be little short sighted of the devs if you and I are able to see that at a glance no?

[obtuse lichen]

It needs to have a different counterplay not just magic or pen

[summer drift]

Increasing the speed for all classes will just make the naked meta people go even more naked

[obtuse lichen]

No one was using cloth armor unless it had decent rolls

[summer drift]

Or they were new to the game

[rigid prawn]

The key is to do it to only off set the changes to cloth armors ms reduction being removed. It would prevent people from stripping their clothes if they give stats with 0 ms debuff.

[obtuse lichen]

I think decreasing movement speed penalty by 5 on clothing and armor all across the board will be the great idea

[real trellis]

Just massively decrease defense if you aren't wearing at least one piece of armor that has a movespeed penalty on it

Like -50 def

That should calm down the naked meta

[obtuse lichen]

That way you dont increase the gap between cloth and armor and at the same time you encourage the players to not drop gray white clothing

[summer drift]

Taking extra damage from not wearing clothes makes a lot of sense, just like helmets saving you from crossbow skeletons

[fierce relic]

Mby better magic resist on all cloth gear. So it would be worth to wear

[summer drift]

That's like when people shoot ballistic gelatin with cloth on top. Even a thin layer of cloth helps big time with reducing penetration and cutting force

It's useful against blades and poking too

[obtuse lichen]

that will do the trick as well

[summer drift]

I doubt naked rogues will care much about magic resist

[obtuse lichen]

but i still stand with #suggestion-discussion message

[summer drift]

They'll care more if it's about making it the difference between dying in 1 hit to a barb or 2

If you don't nerf the movement penalty you can still get a marginal advantage from going naked, but you know you're gonna get killed in 1 hit if you're not a master of dodging. Though this then encourages rogues taking off their clothes while running away

[obtuse lichen]

@summer drift did you read what i typed

this way makes pointless to be naked

[fierce relic]

I don't mind ppl dropping starter kit to be naked. But anything that would increase geared rogues ms scares me

[patent mauve]

I'd be okay with like 15% debuff duration for each piece of core armor you're not wearing; Head, Chest(Barbarian perk negates naked chest debuff), Legs. +45% debuff duration for all three being naked would mean you take more poison/ ignite damage. Better yet, you're slowed for longer upon receiving damage. So it negates the bonus move speed the moment you actually engage in melee combat.

[obtuse lichen]

you will be faster with plate armor as well so in negates the gap

[fierce relic]

I love the slow gameplay

[obtuse lichen]

ok

[patent mauve]

This would mean a naked rogue, has an increased debuff duration of about 85% meaning a 2 second slow would slow a naked rogue by almost 4 seconds.

Very crippling

[obtuse lichen]

then suffer from rogue

[patent mauve]

Even a clerics bind spell would be almost 1.5 seconds of immobilization for a naked rogue

A naked rogue would more likely lose to a grey rogue in a duel due to increased poison/ rupture damage duration, ect.

[summer drift]

Yeah. Tbh your idea works too.

I'm honestly afraid of rogues becoming even faster, since no movement penalty means they'll be as fast as naked and now they'll have much better armor 😂

I'd rather give people insane extra damage taken for being naked

[obtuse lichen]

and plate armor has more mobility

[summer drift]

Yeah, but is that really a good thing? 🤔

[patent mauve]

The naked rogues already take 42.9% increased slow duration.

[obtuse lichen]

idk since it will increase ms all across the board but im good with it

[patent mauve]

Just gotta land that one hit.

[obtuse lichen]

also you can always shoot with the ranged weapons or magic

[summer drift]

People are now complaining on Starsiege because they added the ability to sprint. I feel like there's some merit to slower gameplay with pvp. But I guess we'll never know for sure.

It definitely makes things more chaotic with ping/lag/latency to be able to go faster

[obtuse lichen]

Idk what % being 15 ms faster will make

but by looking at the naked people its not that fast

[patent mauve]

With DJ seemingly on a cooldown, I think the naked rogue meta is gonna die down a bit. 15ms is about 5% speed from the 300 base

[obtuse lichen]

So basically it will increase ms speed by 5% for anyone i dont think every is going to be really mad about it

[summer drift]

Fair. It's a minor advantage. I think another big problem is also low rarity armor giving very little damage reduction. IIRC in PT4 armor used to be better and they made it so that only the highest tier armor makes it op

[fierce relic]

Makes it harder to hit shots and throwables if everyone's ms is increased.

[obtuse lichen]

not that hard

[patent mauve]

I'd much rather there be more negatives associated with not wearing the starter gear over bonuses.

[obtuse lichen]

i wish i had some footage

the problem is that strafing has no inertia and basically adad feels broken and janky even with armor

as well as crouch that has almost no animations and you can spam it

[fierce relic]

Then might as well increase projectile and weapon swing speed to make up for it

[obtuse lichen]

that's why every ranged fight is kinda random

[summer drift]

Damn those are some good points. Strafing inertia and slower crouch animation would improve gameplay

[obtuse lichen]

mb weight system will do the trick who knows

[summer drift]

I don't like seeing high tier gameplay where people peek around a corner and spam left and right like they're playing Smash Bros Melee

[fierce relic]

Naked low gear rogues and wizards are just a nuisance why increase gameplay speed to fix it?

[summer drift]

Well, maybe take 5ms from rogues movement speed by default lol

[obtuse lichen]

my point was to increase cloth clothing usefulness at first but you kept insisting that rogue is broken and you dont like fast gameplay

Personally i never had problems with a rogues

[patent mauve]

I'd rather naked players in general receive higher debuff duration, it isn't inherently a raw damage taken increase. Instead you're slowed for longer while being naked and take more tick rate damage like burn and poison.

[obtuse lichen]

people will still instantly drop cloth armor when they see something like gambeson or plate

[fierce relic]

I just hate rogues. I'm kinda biased.

[patent mauve]

It always makes sense in the fact that you'd be burned more for being naked than wearing clothes and more poison/rupture bleeding for not having anything covering you.

[patent mauve]

You act like they can't whip out the crossbow, or simple realize the naked man probably isn't worth chasing.

[obtuse lichen]

By dropping i mean that no one is going to use cloth armor over leather or plate

not undressing

[patent mauve]

Nah if I take 45% more debuff duration for being naked, I'm gonna keep my grey gear on.

Most people are looking for other stats over armor rating early on anyway, the scaling of defense is really higher later on.

[obtuse lichen]

i just want to divide armor between light medium and heavy
To make cloth armor actually useful

[patent mauve]

That makes sense, cloth armor does slow more than it should for the stats provided.

[inner thorn]

well i try using some "heavy" build for rogue. you become very bad fighter with white gear wearing something which cost a lot

just no way this class will benefit from extra protection

[obtuse lichen]

light - small armor rating, no ms penalty
medium - medium armor rating, mild ms penalty
heavy - high armor rating, moderate-high ms penalty

why even buys white gear from the traders?

[inner thorn]

well noob survive 1/15 times and try to make something from his gold

also white heal potions and bandages still heal

[obtuse lichen]

i only buy gray gear or just go straight up for auction

[inner thorn]

auction is level locked

[patent mauve]

I buy the white leather gloves/pants for knowledge and will

[obtuse lichen]

well white potions and bandages worth money but armor and weapons are not

[patent mauve]

And shadowmasks for rogue for all stat

[inner thorn]

well noobs will find out eventually and stop buy them

[patent mauve]

I buy the white/grey Warmauls because they go bonk

[obtuse lichen]

Gray gear gives stats as well the only reason is to buy white gear is that you dont have a gray in the trader inventory and simply lazy to go for auction

[patent mauve]

I mean I buy the grey/white gear whatevers available but I never buy the gear for defense purposes.

[hard topaz]

what do you think: charm spell for bard to increase engagement potential for team support or solo. Concentrated cast (you have to keep actively casting for best effects) that would gradually charm the victim more until full walking speed toward user without any control. Idk rest of balances

[inner thorn]

explain "victim"

[obtuse lichen]

any counterplay to it?

[hard topaz]

It’s a projectile spell prolly (hearts or smth) and whoever gets hit is a victim

[inner thorn]

ok then it just disable any player

[obtuse lichen]

yeah you disable the player and they fight 2v2 lol

[hard topaz]

Concentrated cast means that bard would be unusable during casting duration

[inner thorn]

or 2/0

[obtuse lichen]

sounds unfair af tbh

[inner thorn]

ok a solo attack group. shoud group be completely safe or they shoud at least suffer health?

[hard topaz]

Advantage lies in charming best geared or the most countering member of other team/ position advantage

[obtuse lichen]

Do you know that some people actually play solo or duo sometimes?

[patent mauve]

How long of a charm are we talking here?

[hard topaz]

What’s a solo attack group

[inner thorn]

1 player attack your group of 3 players

[obtuse lichen]

facepalm

[hard topaz]

Idk you balance it for me

[inner thorn]

your skill make this player instantly loose

[hard topaz]

If bard tries charm and misses it’s an instant 2v1. Free kill basically

[obtuse lichen]

I think maybe reworking the music that makes player unable to attack to be solo target actually will be good
but making a spell that disables opponent completely and for a long time is 2 op

[hard topaz]

It’s supposed to be a risk reward spell for the bard to make that class interesting and add more skill ceiling with micro(aiming) and macro(choosing what player and when and setting up plays for teammates)

[obtuse lichen]

@hard topaz tell me how to miss with it since you can facehug and cast it

or cast it in a narrow path

[hard topaz]

Prolly a small projectile like a wind thing representing a seductive whisper or hearts

[obtuse lichen]

❓ god these ideas today are getting worse and worse

[inner thorn]

i can undestand he idea of bard being at least something in pvp but this is just too op

[obtuse lichen]

I think maybe reworking the music that makes player unable to attack to be solo target actually will be good

[hard topaz]

Also facehugging half of the characters in this game results in an instant kill for the melee character

[obtuse lichen]

nah its too op to disable a player completely

[fierce relic]

bard shuldnt get debuff from beer. (no perks needed)

[inner thorn]

free beer from start

[hard topaz]

Dude it’s gradual. My proposition is that it slowly influences player movement until full charm disable

[obtuse lichen]

still no

[lone crescent]

He can even start with a beer, it fits the class

[fierce relic]

yeah. drunk bard seems lore friendly and bard needs some help...

[lone crescent]

That's actually a good way to make bard strong in combat

[inner thorn]

how many 18 str will help him?

[fierce relic]

rapier ?

[inner thorn]

no, i mean beer give you a buff to str

[patent mauve]

Instead of making your screen hard to see, only make the bards music harder to play while drunk.

[hard topaz]

Also your idea with the music is really similar @obtuse lichen. Concentrated cast bc you have to play music and the player can’t attack. Only small difference is that I’m proposing that victims walk to user slowly is Al

[fierce relic]

well i dont expect bard to pvp with lute in hand only. str buff would be nice for melee

[lone crescent]

36 hp, 18 physical power and 18% physical power bonus

[hard topaz]

Also for the people saying it’s too op: I thought that too initially when I was thinking about it. Then I thought about all the abilities/weapons in the game that 1/2 shot

[inner thorn]

hp dont regen automatically, and will be deleted after buff so no hp

how many 18% is then in damage

[hard topaz]

I just wanna make bard viable with some high skill opportunities

[lone crescent]

You are supposed to drink before fighting
From how temporary hp works is actually a defense buff

[inner thorn]

its under development, not all abilities shoud be so broken

[obtuse lichen]

@hard topaz making someone forced to walk into you is 2 op

[lone crescent]

Your normal damage +18 flat + 18%

[hard topaz]

That’s understanvle for one or two weapons/abilities but there are way more that fit my description

[hard topaz]

Bard can’t do anything while casting it either that’s what I’m tryna say w concentrated casting

[lone crescent]

Diminishing return after 50 strength, I doubt Bard could have more then 50 STR consistently so the buff is huge

[inner thorn]

so imagine we have bard with shortsword (20 dmg). he will deal 41,6 after buff?

[obtuse lichen]

@hard topaz do you undestand that it's going to break the balance 2 much for people that play solo or duo plus you can just run naked on the bard and cast this spell any teamfight to be useful

[hard topaz]

I’m really just tryna make bard fun I think it would be cool to have a balanced charm. Also whoever proposed beeer, I like that too. Could drop for Allies as well like scuffed health pots

[hard topaz]

If you play solo/ duo you are just putting yourself at a disadvantage. You are making the game unfair for yourself

[inner thorn]

also we forgot, there are solo dungeons

[summer drift]

I love the idea of drunk bard lol

[hard topaz]

Bard is a support. Its like cleric in solo

[summer drift]

Give him basic spellcasting with an empty hand also. Minor spells like zap or minor heal

[obtuse lichen]

player is doing pve bard sneaks in cast charm and player dies from monsters

[inner thorn]

he already have strong heal, just broken (stronger then cleric)

[hard topaz]

Also what is your point charm would be worse in solo bc you both are disabled during casting duration and at the end when you are both in meleee bard will almost never win

[obtuse lichen]

new rogue basically

[summer drift]

Actually it only heals damage that you can recover while resting. A minor heal spell would let the bard fully recover his team more often

[hard topaz]

Player is doing pve. Any player ever walks in w surprise advantage and kills with any ability

[obtuse lichen]

not always but your spell 100%

[summer drift]

Bards should be able to cast minor spells imo

[lone crescent]

Take a grey short sword and a basic gear bard.

Without beer 15 base dmg + 15 flat for base damage + 5% (of the base 15 dmg) = 30,75

With beer 15 + 33 + 23% = 51,45

[obtuse lichen]

mb

[summer drift]

Make it so they don't even have to equip a staff or book, just unarmed. It would be sick

[inner thorn]

shoud be pretty strong with good gear then, not bad

[olive kettle]

that's not how physical power works its not additional

[hard topaz]

Wtf any spell any weapon kills if you are in range and in position that’s how it works

[lone crescent]

What do you mean, it's a percentage of your base damage that is 15, 23% of 15 is 3.45

15 + 33 + 3.45 = 51.45

[knotty tulip]

Bard is completely fair considering how fast most classes can kill him

[olive kettle]

weapon damage does not increase from beer

[hard topaz]

That’s what I’m saying! He was no tools and I want to play him in ea bc he has potential as a diff support

[lone crescent]

It takes the base strength?

[summer drift]

That just means he sucks

[hard topaz]

Yes! So add more stuff!

[knotty tulip]

nah hes great, don't nerf him

[lone crescent]

In this case the base DMG is still 15 if we take the str with no beer

[hard topaz]

Charm effect can also scale down w wisdom stat

[summer drift]

Give him magic and I'll be happy

We could use a third spellcaster that's not a warlock. The bard could fit the spellsword stereotype super well

[hard topaz]

My other idea is more scuffed and I don’t like it as much as charm: minor illusion. Idk how to implement it well tho

[summer drift]

Summon fake monsters that disappear when hit?

That would be pretty cool considering he's supposed to be the master at pve

[hard topaz]

Yeah but idk if it would fit bard theme well

[lone crescent]

From my understanding physical power works on overall damage while physical power bonus works on weapon damage

[summer drift]

You know bard has problems when your best tactic is to pretend you're a different class lol

I used to wear leather hats and attack with survival bows so people would think I'm a ranger and run away at long range. Always avoid playing your lute if you're solo

[olive kettle]

the difference in damage using 18 str beer (that doesnt exist) is 18% of weapon damage which would be 2.7 damage on a shitsword

[summer drift]

So beer doesn't make you punch harder?

[olive kettle]

it does but not by much as fists do 15 damage as well

[lone crescent]

Yes but you need to add the 5% physical power bonus given by the base 15 str of the bard to the total which is 0.75 dmg

[patent mauve]

15 str is the baseline for 0% bonus.

[fierce relic]

i dont think bard should be able to deal dmg with music. only buffs and debuffs

[patent mauve]

Give the Bard a disruptive spell that mimics the effects of beer on all players in range.

[rigid prawn]

Amazing idea I love it

[lone crescent]

Ok so 15 + 18 + 18% =35,7

[patent mauve]

Where are you getting 18 flat from?

[lone crescent]

If the base dmg is 15 the buff is huge

[olive kettle]

my bruh if str was additional damage naked barb could hit 100 damage headshot with horsemans axe

[lone crescent]

18 str from beer gives 18 flat physical power and 18% bonus

[patent mauve]

That's not how str works, physical power is physical power, 100 physical power is 60% bonus damage, 33 strength is only 18% bonus damage, making fists deal almost 18 damage a hit.

[lone crescent]

@olive kettle barbarian with grey battle axe starts with 70,2 dmag per hit

[lone crescent]

Physical power is flat, physical power bonus is % and strength gives both

[olive kettle]

"physical power" as given by strenght is only used to convert to physical power bonus, it is not "additional physical power"

[patent mauve]

No, physical power bonus is raw strength 1 to 1 with physical power, physical power is an affix that can roll to increases physical power bonus 1 to 1. It's not flat damage.

[summer drift]

Brooo

Holy blight, I love it. Honestly if you change a few of the spell names they would still fit the bard.

I think it would be cool to have a smaller spell selection, like 3 spells you can cast instead of 5, or less uses

[patent mauve]

I think you mean physical damage, which is separate from physical power bonus.

[lone crescent]

The wiki says phys power is flat on weapon damage while physical power bonus is %

Every point of strength give 1 physical power and 1% physical power bonus

[patent mauve]

The wiki says it clearly that strength = physical power, 15 physical power is 0% increase in damage, 100 physical power is 60% bonus damage, no where does it say flat damage.

[lone crescent]

Barb starts with 70,2 dmg, he does 105,3 with headshot, in fact a basic gear barb is able to 2 shot a 200hp mob

[olive kettle]

You don't know the horsemans axe is

[lone crescent]

The wiki makes difference between physical power, which is flat and physical power bonus which is %, strength affects both

https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Stats

[patent mauve]

The barbarian starts with 15% bonus physical damage. Flat physical power is still on a scale, it's not flat damage it's flat physical power. I'm reading it right now. No where does it state a flat damage modifier.

[lone crescent]

Then how he is able to 2 shot a 200hp mob?

[patent mauve]

What mob are you talking about?

[lone crescent]

Goblins and skeleton footman, both have 200hp

[patent mauve]

Its 144 and 167

[lone crescent]

Wiki says 200

[patent mauve]

I'm reading the wiki right now, you're reading move speed

[lone crescent]

Lol? I'm reading the wiki too

https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Skeleton_Footman

[patent mauve]

I'm on the monster tab where is shows all hps for all mobs and variants.

[lone crescent]

There's clearly something wrong with the wiki, the tab have different numbers

[obtuse lichen]

im a sturgeon

[placid canopy]

The non individual monster page is more likely to be accurate

[patent mauve]

That seems like it's not an updated section where your at, doesn't show nightmare hp either.
But skeletons take 10% bonus physical damage. On top of the barbarian dealing(33axe+5axe perk) 38x1.15(barb phys) = 43.7 x1.5(headshot) =65.55x1.10(skeleton physcal damage modifer) = 72.10
That's how you two shot skeletons and goblins.

With base barbarian gear

[placid canopy]

Also the 5 from perk isn't multiplied by the physical power. It's additional phys despite the perk wording not weapon damage

[patent mauve]

Right, so it's about 70 a headshot on skeletons and goblins.

[placid canopy]

Yeah 70.87

[lone crescent]

Base battle axe have 35 dmg

[patent mauve]

Take in the bonus axe perk for 5% or the savage perk and you're easily 2-3 shotting most mobs

[patent mauve]

So the math checks out, it's not flat damage is multiple factors adding up to 70+ damage a headshot.

Physical power is not flat damage

[placid canopy]

Physical power should follow the graph on strength for the wiki. If it says physical power % it should be a flat addition to the total %
Base barb at 30 str should be 1.15% multiplier. If you have savage, this would bring it to 1.25 total

[patent mauve]

Honestly this game has such a great formula for power scaling imo

[lone crescent]

That's still wrong, if strength adds both physical power and physical power bonus and if physical power gets converted to bonus shouldn't the multiplier be 45%?

[patent mauve]

The baseline is 15 strength, so 15 strength is 0 bonus. 50 strength is 35%

[placid canopy]

Strength only adds physical power number at 1:1. You need to look at the graph to see how much % you get out of it

1 strength = 1 physical power, but that means literally nothing without context on what you get out of the physical power

[lone crescent]

I am looking at the graph, physical power starts from 0 while phys power bonus starts from -80%

[patent mauve]

Yes and no class starts at 0 strength/physical power.

[lone crescent]

Ah ok I got it, strength gives physical power and physical power gives physical power bonus

[placid canopy]

Yes

[patent mauve]

Yes

[lone crescent]

15 physical power is 0% bonus then

[placid canopy]

Correct

[lone crescent]

All this cause I can't access to the subreddit for some reasons and wiki doesn't explain the difference very good

[placid canopy]

So a base barb at 30 str gets 15% bonus. If they take the no body perk, they get 10% bonus added for a total of 25%

[lone crescent]

Wait, does this mean a bard with a grey short sword deals only 15?

[placid canopy]

Bards weren't exactly known for dealing dmg lol

[lone crescent]

This means a starting beer to bard will still be trash af

[patent mauve]

Yeah not much of a bonus from beer alone, unless you have extra weapon damage.

[lone crescent]

Endgame beer instead could be a huge buff to bard if he doesn't get drunk

I mean geared beer bard

[placid canopy]

Bards were already updated on the wiki to be the new stats too. They had less str last test

[lone crescent]

Just stacking beer over protection pot is huge for defence

[patent mauve]

They took a weird hit to their resourcefulness, im definitely gonna try to make a speed bard build.

[lone crescent]

The problem is that resourcefulness does nothing in combat other then opening doors

I guess meta for bard will be full agility

You still gonna do low damage even if you try maxing it, better attack fast

[patent mauve]

Bard is definitely a meme class more suited as a hybrid support with tranquility and speed buffs.

Give Bard a song that boosts the teams debuff resistance. Make Bard more useful for bossfights, he can't even chaos the lich's minions.

[hard topaz]

I wish bard was better 😔😭

[obtuse lichen]

dw he will be

but without charm

[hard topaz]

whatever as long as he has interesting abilities and he’s viable

maybe could have he different spellcasting items unique to bard in the form of instruments like a flute or smth

[rigid prawn]

Charm could be implemented in a way that isn’t broken, like making it more useful to pve than pvp with a shorter duration against players.

What we should really be scared of is a monk class with the ability to chain stun just by hitting things lol

[lone crescent]

I think now that lute is not gear anymore bard will choose instrument based on the sheet music he selected

This ofc means that using multiple buffs from multiple instruments will be slow and hard in combat but they could make like lute utility, flute attack buff, lyre defense buff, or something like that

[summer drift]

Just give him spellcasting

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-dumb-duh-gif-13669009

[lone crescent]

The problem with bard is that he got infinite music and that's the reason why they can't be strong as wizard or cleric buffs

If they make a good job with variety you could have a bard that buffs the team, can go melee with rapier or falchion and can support the team with bow.
Rapier mastery for example is a good perk, in melee he should be a little more powerful then a rogue

[placid canopy]

Everyone wants longsword on bard and ranger cuz they get it in 5th edition dnd, but where's my rogue longsword? They also get it

[patent mauve]

Bouta be like Oprah with the longsword

[rugged eagle]

Double jump + longsword?

[placid canopy]

Imagine how fast you can shank a fool with a longsword on rogue lol

[lone crescent]

Imagine if they make attack music that deals dmg

[rugged eagle]

They might actually

[lone crescent]

Flying longsword

[patent mauve]

You go to charge the rogue with your longsword in hand, he whips out his own longsword and spams parry, you both spam parry for 5 seconds and go your separate ways.

[lone crescent]

Some area denial music and an attack one similar to zap but with shorter range and longer casting

[patent mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/jam-music-band-guitar-scott-pilgrim-gif-14280009

[summer drift]

That's good in theory, but the bard still is terrible in pvp. The rogue will out damage him by a lot if using decent gear and offensive skills

[patent mauve]

Two teams with bards meet in broken bridge room/zombie jail room

[placid canopy]

Just add locust swarm to a bard song around him

[lone crescent]

https://gfycat.com/uk/barrenobesebandicoot

[placid canopy]

Call it death metal

[summer drift]

The only real way to play bard effectively is to have a trio of bards constantly playing peace song

[patent mauve]

When the rogue ran from sdf during the goblin video xD oh no baby what is you doin?

[placid canopy]

Paid actor

[lone crescent]

He could be played instead of rogue to get access to buffs, rogue has 0 team utility

[placid canopy]

To be fair so does fighter and ranger

[patent mauve]

Let the rogue poison weapon apply to all teammates in the area like jokester.

[honest knot]

rogue can see traps, that's great team utility. + being able to forward scout w/ creep is massive for the information advantage.

[lone crescent]

I guess they are all devs playing bad on purpose

[lone crescent]

Rogue can see trap with a perk, no need when you memorized them all

[summer drift]

Rogue stabs hard and wins fights. You don't need utility when you carry

[placid canopy]

Trap perk

[summer drift]

Rogue is just busted and they're gonna keep making it stronger

[lone crescent]

You could still play bard and rogue togheter

[patent mauve]

Trap perk would be cool if they let you re-enable traps after disabling them.

[tawny python]

i dont think thats accurate then u need 4 headshot with a longbow to kill a goblin . iremember 3 shoot would a goblin

[placid canopy]

The individual monster and weapon pages are not correct. The page with all of them should be

[honest knot]

It's for players. In HR good rangers saturate the map with traps and it can turn those situations completely on their head.

it is harder to justify taking with the introduction of double jump. we'll see how hard they nerfed it next patch but i suspect it has a pretty brutal cooldown now.

[fierce relic]

rogue was fine in pt4, bit underwhelming but ok and fun to play. then they add crossbow, +1all stats headpiece, jokster, buff rapier base dmg, and f-ing double jump. few of those things would be ok. but this was overkill

taking rapier away or making them use a perk slot to use one could help a little. the range is too good on rapier for rogue who supposed be dagger master but meta is rapier. they already have crossbow and throwing daggers for range. remove rapture from crossbow and throwing daggers and i would be cool with double jump

❤️ @dawn grotto

[patent mauve]

I want a unique pair of boots that give doublejump on a cooldown.
Then rogue can have triple jump.

[summer drift]

Tbf we don't even know if there's a cooldown on double jump. The rogue on the video hardly did anything.

[placid canopy]

If it's still a perk, cooldown would be really awkward to play with

[compact barn]

We need a longsword fighter emoji. Can we submit emojis to anyone on this discord y'all know?

[rugged eagle]

Where's my halberd emote?

[lone crescent]

@honest knot to see the trap highlighted you still need to be close enough to actually see it without the perk, it is useful yes but for experienced players is a waste of slot

[honest knot]

I don't agree , many times has that trap detection perk saved me from sneaky traps placed by camping rangers. This was more frequent in the past p2 and p3 as p4 i just saw a lot less of them but i still hold to it's use case.

The detection radius is enough to see them clearly through doors / rooms and can alert you to camping teams as well as allow you to navigate them in complete darkness ( something that ranger camping in the room is not expecting you to do at all ).

They also can't hide them inside of corpses or other sneaky ways to get you with them. Is this an offensive perk for someone looking to go and slay every one in the lobby? No, will it help you stay alive in certain situations if that's your only goal? Yes.

[reef spindle]

oh, didn't even think about it
but being able to see all traps in the darkness seems huge for sneaky rogue build

[honest knot]

you would be correct and with creep you can find your self in some fantastic situations to ambush people when they really didn't expect someone to sneak around a placed trap that 99% of other players hit

[reef spindle]

is disarming traps long and loud?

[honest knot]

you don't need to disarm them, you can see them. They work for you if you can also know where they are. but no it's no loud at all, sometimes a skill check will promp that can be hard but otherwise it's fine.

[reef spindle]

asking as some for some traps you need to jump over them and jumping is loud

well, landing is

[honest knot]

i mean you can disarm those static map traps but i was more referencing the player placed traps as the main reason to take the perk. Yes it's loud when you disarm them, makes a clicking sound around you.

[lone crescent]

I mean they hear you disarm the trap, it isn't sneaky at all

If this stealth strategy work is only cause the ranger or his team are not paying attention

[honest knot]

the disarming is irrelavant to the point i was making, it was only a question i was answering that someone asked.

[obtuse lichen]

#stoproguehate

[fierce relic]

exterminate those filthy cockroaches

[obtuse lichen]

no you

[fierce relic]

[obtuse lichen]

git dug

[twin ibex]

Just browisng the chanels

[summer drift]

Suggestion (For the 5th time or so): Give bard Spell Memory with an empty secondary hand :D

[warped coral]

what would second hand be used for? also i think(emphasis on think) the bard can find or buy like music sheets to learn new songs in future playtests

[summer drift]

I'm saying he shouldn't have to carry a book to cast spells, let him do it with a free right click (secondary hand). Essentially means he can only punch with the left (main) hand if he has Spell Memory equipped

[rancid pebble]

that might be for the other casters

[lone crescent]

Well they removed lute as gear and made it a skill

[summer drift]

I don't care about that lol

It was only a minor inconvenience to me to have to manually unequip my bow to equip the lute. Sure it's gonna be a lot easier now, and the skills the bard had available were pure hot garbage anyway

But I'd love to see skills that actually matter myself

[obtuse lichen]

@lone crescent i think lute will be as physical item and an ability at the same time
So you can choose if you want to have it as an ability or as an item

Because we had different abilities on the bard and makes no sense how you are going to play with them because they were only usable with a lute
and sacrificing note memory for 1 ability is kinda strange

or they will make 2 different builds with non lute abilities and lute idk honestly

[lone crescent]

Honestly we have 0 info, he have an ability on Q and everyone is saying that's the lute but I doubt it, 2 skills to play is bs

Also we don't have any indicator to know which button he press when equipping lute

And when he equips it it says he equipped weapon in slot 2, which means the hud probably didn't got updated

[summer drift]

I just want the bard to not suck tbh

Normally bards are supposed to be jack of all trades, so getting magic seems like the way to go to me

Bard fitting the role of spellblade would be epic even if he's not "good" at PvP. Right now all he does is mess up music

[lone crescent]

I don't think they could find a fitting instrument for off hand, unless it is some percussion or armonica

[solar falcon]

Everyone who can cast should get one spell memory for free on a new hotkey and having a second uses the skill slot.

[summer drift]

I like the concept behind that idea

[lone crescent]

Then they need to nerf all the spells or they need to nerf all the perks to keep the balance

[obtuse lichen]

exactly

[summer drift]

Not really. Spells are supposed to be a part of the class. Having them as a skill just means you can't have other skills.

That's like saying setting traps as a ranger should be a skill

[lone crescent]

Having one more skills plus spells is broken af, spell memory 1, spell memory 2 and meditation? Please...

[solar falcon]

Khanohn and devil man just love to sit in suggestions and beef with people that want to change anything about the game

[summer drift]

Reminder that we can get spells back by resting now

[lone crescent]

I have nothing better to do man

[summer drift]

I think changes to the game can be a great thing as long as we all pitch in our thoughts and the devs don't just do things just to please

[obtuse lichen]

Wizard and cleric are already strong the problem is that they are hard to play

[lone crescent]

Sure, it can work but it isn't a thing they can just add, it breaks all the balance at the core of the class

[summer drift]

"Wizard is strong"

[lone crescent]

He is unless you play with staff

[obtuse lichen]

Yes it is i played on the wizard every pt all you need on the wizard is hands(skill) and book instead of a staff

[summer drift]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/240196923644968960/1104272263668314172/v7iir4xfb8o.gif

He's strong with high tier gear so you can get good damage bonuses on your spells, but every class is op with strong gear

[obtuse lichen]

Remember we are stonewalling

[summer drift]

Wizard also suffers from naked meta. Shameful shameful

[solar falcon]

Hey that’s why I’m always here

[lone crescent]

A basic gear Wizard can deal 20 with zap + burn and 30 with a fireball, soooo bad

[summer drift]

Where are you pulling those numbers from?

[obtuse lichen]

He is stronger than every other class in proper hands and has really high skill ceiling

[lone crescent]

You just need a white spellbook, even grey and he's good

[obtuse lichen]

Also every melee class sucks against wizard only ranger can counter him properly or another wizard

[lone crescent]

They are the basic damage of the spells without modifiers bruh, check the stats before saying he's underpowered

[obtuse lichen]

Yeah and what?

[summer drift]

I don't think I'm qualified to argue this, but you should definitely take this debate to the #wizard channel

[lone crescent]

Magic missile basic damage is 12x10=120

[summer drift]

They scored pretty low compared to other classes in the playtest stats

[lone crescent]

One cast of magic missile could kill every base gear classes minus barbarian

[obtuse lichen]

Yes but its because wizards are harder to play

If you are going to take really good wizard players then this class is definitely stronger than every other

[lone crescent]

Yeah cause magic resistance is almost nonexistent in this game

[glacial sphinx]

no one gets hit by MM at anything beyond point blank range though, realistically a good player on a barb will shit on an undergeared wiz with a few franciscas

[obtuse lichen]

mm prevent people from pushing you

And imo not every class should have the same entry threshold

[lone crescent]

You mean you could hit 100% of your franciscas?

[glacial sphinx]

well I think rogue and wizard should have the weakest start

[obtuse lichen]

They are

[glacial sphinx]

because they have the most potential to be annoying if too many people play them and they're op at every level. I think rogue currently has too strong a start with dj

[obtuse lichen]

But wizard is a lot harder to play than a rouge that why a lot of the people just drop wizard and think this class is bad

[lone crescent]

The strongest start I think is Fighter, then maybe Ranger and Barbarian are equal

[glacial sphinx]

mm for me i'd say ranger/barb is the easiest start

[obtuse lichen]

In my list the strongest classes are cleric-ranger-wizard but they all require a lot of the skill

[lone crescent]

Barbarian is maybe the worst, i'm not counting troll Bard obv

[obtuse lichen]

Barb is just unga bunga

[glacial sphinx]

how is barb start the worst? smash is insanely good for quick looting and getting out and its baseline pretty easy to kill people. plus you have easy decent damage with axe spec

[obtuse lichen]

Barb is really easy to start and play overall

Doesn't requires a lot of the brain activity XD

It's really fun to play on the barb especially if you want to chill or go full caveman mode

[lone crescent]

I mean geared Barb is the worst, as start he's good

[obtuse lichen]

Nah he is always good thats true that he gets less value from the gear but still can compete easily with other classes even if his gear worse

[lone crescent]

Yes but Fighter is better cause he's faster and Cleric Wizard Ranger are meta

[obtuse lichen]

He can be even better to than a fighter if you play really agressive comp with wizard cleric and barb

Speed not always wins

[lone crescent]

I want to try so bad an agility build on barb, it could work cause he doesn't rely much on gear for damage

[obtuse lichen]

Also if i remember correctly barb had the most kills in almost every playtest plus top 1 kills leaderboards

[summer drift]

Idk, having a high skill ceiling doesn't make a class good to me. Imo it should be more about which one wins more games, not which one has the best overall player

[obtuse lichen]

But i like high skill ceiling classes

[summer drift]

I didn't say it was a bad thing, I'm saying your class can suck regardless of having a high skill ceiling

[obtuse lichen]

Actually i dont mind if you buff wizard for me

[glacial sphinx]

wiz at high level wasnt especially more rewarding than any other class was despite being harder to play, it was just decent with very good gear. Probably ranger and rogue were just straightup better at every gear level

[summer drift]

💯

That's what I'm saying

[obtuse lichen]

idk wizard felt really strong for me

[summer drift]

Aren't you a rogue main?

[obtuse lichen]

what

[glacial sphinx]

wiz with decent gear felt good to me, not insane. Rogue felt like legit easymode last PT, Cleric felt really strong as always same with barb. Ranger is just always really strong and I dont feel arrows nerfed it at all

[obtuse lichen]

cleric wizard mostly but overall i play on every class

[summer drift]

Neat

[obtuse lichen]

Actually I dont play ranger usually because it feels like an easy mode for me

[summer drift]

I wanna try and get good with the ranger sometime. I love setting traps. I'm just bad with range

[obtuse lichen]

Just relax when you are playing on the ranger and try to predict enemies movement especially when shooting really far
also 1 sudden shot always matters you can easily kill a player with an ambush on the ranger

People usually shit their pants when they suddenly start to get shot while fighting with someone else or doing pve

[lone crescent]

A difficult to play character shouldn't be stronger by default and viceversa

[obtuse lichen]

yes

but ranged in the game where most of the people are melee is always stronger and you cant argue with that

[abstract swallow]

Ranged weapons that keep full 2h hitstun.

[obtuse lichen]

Actually some classes can be stronger if they require more skill

[lone crescent]

That's why Ranger and Wizard are hard to balance and that's why double jump is even harder

[obtuse lichen]

Just think about it as dota 2 characters

all of them are different and have different potential in various situations but some of them require more skill and can be more versatile because of that

Also every class has a counterplay

[olive kettle]

remove headshot multiplier from ranged attacks

[abstract swallow]

remove headshot multiplier

[obtuse lichen]

remove head

make squares instead of the bodies so it will be even for everyone XD

[lone crescent]

Or Killjoy in Valorant that can carry games staying afk behind a wall with three and area denial and she is in meta

[obtuse lichen]

oh no not this femboy game XD

[obtuse lichen]

good idea for wizard btw XD

[lone crescent]

They added backpack in the game

There are more inventory slots slots in sdf's video

[rigid prawn]

Back slots were a dead give away! Hopefully weight rework is soon!

[lone crescent]

No I don't mean back slots, they added more inventory slot, not gear

They are darken out cause he doesn't have any backpack equipped but they are there

Here, there are 2 inventory extension https://imgur.com/a/lkO1goe

[olive kettle]

That was already in game

[spice sigil]

instant cast might not be the best but dam its the most fun I have had in the game

no one uses it so no is ready for it... Many players don't even know it's a thing!!! So they try to rush you and then met WAZACKS CHHHAAIINNN LLIGGHHTTINNNGGGG.

THANKFULLY. Its not as good as meditate so you should not need to worry about it {:.

[rigid prawn]

Dont share our secrets brother, they must not know!

[spice sigil]

o they know, they know because I have been useing it on them ahhahaha

[wanton loom]

D&D should partner with OTKs new publishing company

[spice sigil]

what is that

[wanton loom]

otk is making a games publishing company, they fund games development and marketing.

OTK is a content org on twitch, there are streamers in in the org that already played and liked D&D

[summer drift]

👌 I loved being able to recharge spells by resting to use abilities like these

[solar falcon]

dark and darker or dungeons and dragons, we use DaD around here

very thoughtful reply glad you're a common face in the suggestion discussion channel

[wanton loom]

No really, I'm glad you are

[merry stratus]

Hello all I was thinking about a thing. What do you think to put a kind of an ilvl on items and doing a matchmaking based on the ilvl ?

Like from Ilvl x to x people play against each other's then when you reach like I don't know 200 Ilvl you match with people between 200 and 400

[obtuse lichen]

Whats the point of the highroller dungeon then

I dont think this game should have matchmaking based on the gear or character lvl

Maybe some harder maps with different entry fees

This type of the games are meant to be unfair sometimes that why it keeps people playing in it
Tarkov is an example

Also people that are really under leveled or over leveled will have higher que times

[merry stratus]

Yes you right

[obtuse lichen]

The only matchmaking i can accept is trusted and untrusted lobbies for new accounts to prevent cheaters from buying new account and ruin the game for players that play fairly and regularly like the cycle did

[bleak junco]

will suggestion chat be ever back

[obtuse lichen]

nobody knows

[bleak junco]

I wanna make the most disliked suggestion

[coral merlin]

100%

[obtuse lichen]

make it here

[bleak junco]

adjustable character height 💀

[obtuse lichen]

Gnome

[summer drift]

lol

Gnomes would be op if they had the same stats. Imagine oddjob from 007, it'd be like trying to hit spiders

But it would be funny to have to crouch to hit someone

[olive kettle]

fairies

[summer drift]

Oh god no. They'd be like rogues but so much worse.

[olive kettle]

I wanna be a flying little menace

[spice sigil]

same

[obtuse lichen]

@compact barn soon tm

[ebon valve]

an idea for the solo andies. give them a gamemode (sorry) that allows 3 - 5 player co-op with items that have enhanced benifits that drop for pve content but dumbed down stats for pvp. players can solo this but it is very hard. teaching solos how to take on pvp in a lighter sense. could implament scrapped map designs or room designs for a classical dungeon crawler approach. while being able to take that same gear into pvp with a toned down set of stats more focus possibly from defense to offense.

[bleak junco]

quadruple jump rogue

[compact barn]

o7

[obtuse lichen]

Add random queue like in hunt showdown but with class filters and everyone is happy
Also make normal voice chat everyone will be even more happy

[marble iron]

They should add a 1v1 arena mode that you pay to enter and if you win you take the other person's entry fee and items

[obtuse lichen]

controversive idea

[lone crescent]

A direct 1v1 will be the most unbalanced and unfair thing

Ranger and Wizard could win almost every match

[marble iron]

Could. I beat most rangers I meet in 1v1's but I also only played solo 3's on the last pt

[olive kettle]

cleric would win against ranger and wizard

[obtuse lichen]

cleric will be like mica vista astalavista

[solar falcon]

The only change I want to see to matchmaking is class balancing for solo players so we don’t end up with a lobby entirely full of rogues again

[obtuse lichen]

My idea is that you can select for what classes you want to search

[solar falcon]

We just don’t allow a lobby to be more than 1/3rd a single class

[obtuse lichen]

and then see your teammates and decide if you wanna play with them or not
like in hunt showdown

So you dont end up with naked trolls or simply griefers

[solar falcon]

That’s just gathering hall

[obtuse lichen]

But with one button and the system searches for you so you dont have to go into the chat and fish

Look how random matching works in the hunt showdown

@solar falcon

[solar falcon]

I was playing hunt last night. I like the current system better pick out people and send invites not constantly rerolling randos in and hoping they’re ok

[obtuse lichen]

But you still can decide if you want to play with them or not

It's always better to have an option to find another party instead of locking players with certain ones especially if people can easily grief you in dark and darker

[summer drift]

[solar falcon]

What are you talking about with gathering hall you invite people you pick to your lobby where you can talk with them and kick them out you the only difference is not waiting on a matchmaking system to find someone for you

[obtuse lichen]

Kinda misunderstood you probably but i was talking about adding fill option with a class filters instead of the gathering hall

[solar falcon]

That would require a search for group option where you just kind of wait

[ripe hornet]

so basically a role queue like from overwatch or league of legends

[obtuse lichen]

Yep

[obtuse lichen]

IMO waiting is better than actively fishing for party in the gathering hall

You just press 1 button and chill for like 20 seconds depends on the time of the day and a region prime time

[ripe hornet]

One of the major downsides to that system would be that people could queue up as support/cleric but just go pure dmg build or just refuse to heal anyone as they are all randoms. Balancing random queue will always be nearly impossible. Th eoption for random queue may not hurt tho, just to give some solo players an easier step to play with people vs a lfg on discord

[obtuse lichen]

and then you report them for griefing

[ripe hornet]

what ive learned from playing years of league and ow is that playing badly/ a different playstyle isnt reportable

[obtuse lichen]

They still get the same matchmaking but people will see that their nicknames are red and probably try to avoid queuing with them

[ripe hornet]

in ow you have people who just go pure dps as healers and they never get punished because support says its "a different playstyle that the player enjoys" same with league

[patent mauve]

I'd prefer not to wait 10 minutes to get a rogue game in xD

[obtuse lichen]

wdym

[ripe hornet]

and i also have a feeling it will suffer the same aspect as WoW dungeons/raids do. That everyone is queing dps and you have to wait 10+ minutes to find a healer/support or tank

[obtuse lichen]

Idk i have a lot of the friends that play on the cleric

[patent mauve]

Joke about queue times like with league and wow

[ripe hornet]

Yeah i mean im a cleric main but i wouldnt want to queue and play with random dps who are running around like apes every match, thats why a lot of people don't like playing supports in games

[obtuse lichen]

What was the stats about classes popularity last playtest?

[ripe hornet]

cleric was 5th most played class

[obtuse lichen]

That's why my suggestion is to make a normal party vc so everybody can communicate or at least take a role as a ''leader''

[ripe hornet]

cleric was just above bard and wizard, every other class was vastly played more

[obtuse lichen]

I dont like how you can't use private chat in the hunt with randoms

[ripe hornet]

But in a lot of games people don't use vc, Thats extremely common in ow, even if you are trying to comm as a healer the dps either will ignore you, leave the chat when you say something they dont like, or just not even communicate and stay silent

[obtuse lichen]

Even if they dont in my experience if you play really well and talk to your teammates they are listening to you

[ripe hornet]

ive had the opposite experience as a masters/gm player in ow 1 and 2

[obtuse lichen]

Because it's a toxic game in these ranks

[ripe hornet]

thats literally every rank in any game, league, ow, r6s, cs, etc

[obtuse lichen]

League and dota isn't that bad if you know how to talk with the people instead of instantly trying to insult each other

[ripe hornet]

league players mental are some of the lowest ive seen in any game tbh, you ask them to play safe nicely after theyve tower dived and inted 3 times in a row and they spam chat then actually run it down

[obtuse lichen]

And then get banned

[ripe hornet]

they can soft int as well to get around the ban system, just keep fighing or playing out of position and excuse it as "bad at game"

but back to your one point its similar to how Tarkov has a system to pick up random players before a raid, but nobody uses that because they dont want to trust randoms and dont want to possibly risk their gear on a random teamates skills

[obtuse lichen]

Idk in hunt it somehow works

And no one complains + your teammates usually dont have a roadmen attitude
The only problem i have with it that they dont have a private vc

[ripe hornet]

gear in hunt is also vastly different tho, you get free kits after every match and can easily buy whatever kit you want. Vs tarkov/ DaD its harder to get the exact items you want

[obtuse lichen]

But it worth a try anyways than having people crying about how this game has no fill feature

[harsh vale]

pspsppsppsppsps

[obtuse lichen]

hello

[ripe hornet]

i suppose. I just think the game being based on Dungeons and Dragons wants to stay true to that "party" feeling of a group of adventurers diving into the dungeon vs solo players just being forced together. Idk tho

[harsh vale]

what are we discussing scholars

[obtuse lichen]

Well adventurers can have different relations

And you can disable fill feature if you want to go solo or duo with a friend

[ripe hornet]

true

[rigid prawn]

Only problem with a role based queue is it requires and established meta to work. League has had the same roles for 15 years, there are classes setup for specific roles. Although you could argue that the same can be said of DAD (Bard and Cleric being fairly obvious support classes) the game doesn’t require you to play those roles to win. 3 rogues can mess up a team real bad if played right. Cleric can run an off tank bruiser build. Rogue can also play support with detect traps, smoke bombs, caltrops, lock pick etc.

Adding more queues on top of the existing ones will also split the playerbase up making finding games harder overall. If they are already planning on making as many maps as they can it’s going to get hard enough as it is. High roller already has long wait times compared to normals.

[pure pollen]

wait till gobbo cave gets hr, you'll have 9 person crypt hr lobbies

[obtuse lichen]

lol

[hexed kite]

Not sure if said yet but It would be fun to be able to drag body's around. I can only imagine what people would do hiding them

[warm spoke]

fighter is best class has perk to use all weapons and weight reduction

[lone crescent]

It could be broken moving the body then looting it

[hexed kite]

Body must be lootless no iffs ands or buts can hid things in chest and even make them close to think no one's opened it I've done it and watched peoples reaction to empty chest too

Sorry meaning all loot has to be removed

I have emptied a rim and then literally sat in the corner and acted like the resident evil four vendor asking people whether they buy him just for jokes only to let them kill me and argue over the loot

Oh to save from loot players if a body is emptied it could be locked so no inv could be access just a button reaction to move

[lone crescent]

You still need to throw all his loot on the ground and people will notice something is off even more then finding a body

Also you could "steal" an enemy body to prevent the enemy time from ressing him

[spice sigil]

if your talking about clerics in dark and darker thats none sense. Clerics can do just fine dmg. And they should be able to play however they want. if you want heals bring potions or make friends with a cleric. THE AGE OF HEAL BOTS IS OVERRR

[spice sigil]

truth. In this type of game players need the freedom to make their own choice for better or for worse. If you want heals get them your self. You can buy potions,bandages you can chose to rest or hell even play cleric your self. Their dmg is fine and they have heals. you can also find shrines. You dont need a suport in this game its just nice to have.

[hexed kite]

You make a good point

[ripe hornet]

you didn't read what we were talking about clearly

[spice sigil]

my b

I dont this game needs that kind of match making

[granite plinth]

Can i make one suggestion ? pirate class would be cool

[graceful frost]

Also ppl can just team kill

[bleak dagger]

ban him please

[granite plinth]

??

[bleak dagger]

was just a joke

[granite plinth]

xd,so you think pirate is good suggestion of class ?

[bleak dagger]

no

[granite plinth]

y'arr butgen

[bleak dagger]

ban him

[compact barn]

y'arr ban him

[obtuse lichen]

i was talking about random party finder not matchmaking in actual match

[spice sigil]

O HELL YEAH that sounds rad as hell

[compact barn]

I'll get behind the pirate thing if they come with sabers! We still don't have a saber in the game! Blasphemous! Not even a blonde haired one like come on

[solar falcon]

A nice Calvary Sabre or maybe a large arabian scimitar with some fancy swishy animations

[granite plinth]

saber and a pistol, gee golly and a parrot or monkey pet

[spice sigil]

pistol as a Q ability? if you get hit with fire damage you have a chance to blow up hahahah

[granite plinth]

nah, bomb keg also pistol is off hand weapon 😉

[spice sigil]

can break door

[granite plinth]

and can side step like rogue roll but on sides

also he can parry too like good o'l fifhty go'be gone

[lone crescent]

Kinda cringe joke lol

They could add a scimitar for bard maybe

[compact barn]

Lies and slander! I did shake my head at myself though...lol

I do think both sabers and scimitars have a place in the game so I'm excited to see what other weapons they add in over time. The viking sword was pretty hype until I realized it was unbelievably bad

[spice sigil]

me too

[arctic lagoon]

why is it only downward slashes

[spice sigil]

but I LOVE the viking sword

[arctic lagoon]

its cool, just why downward slashes

[spice sigil]

so you can chop up rouges

[compact barn]

At the very least it could have a different attack on the final attack of the chain like the falchion goes from horizontal horizontal to the vertical diagonal attack.

[arctic lagoon]

a down down sideway slash?

[spice sigil]

it would be cool if you could two hand smaller weapons if you have nothing in the other hand

it could give it a different move set and if you could switch you could do cool mix ups!!!

[compact barn]

Anything besides chop chop. Horseman's axe and hatchet are both already chop chop lol. Viking sword deserves some type of more unique pattern than the two chops.

[spice sigil]

some vo when swinging would be cool

like a big scream not a actual voice line a big barbaric YAWP

[arctic lagoon]

could add a bit more nuance to listening on fights

[lone crescent]

Maybe they don't want to give any thrust to Barbarian

[spice sigil]

you could tell attacks from vo like how you can tell what operator was shooting in rainbow six

[lone crescent]

The only voice line in the game atmbis "uuuuuhhhhhh" and "uuuuooooooohhh" from barb shots lol

Maybe they plan on adding more voices

[spice sigil]

I have zero clue what they are gonna do. I am hype no matter what. I do hope they take their time

[uncut trout]

“NOOoOoOoOoOoOoOo”
When Ghost King dies

[solar falcon]

you forgot mica vista julien

[lone crescent]

The lich summoning skeletons too

[tranquil elbow]

The lich yelling at you to get off his lawn too!

[north inlet]

All my suggestions: good. All your suggestions: bad. I refuse to elaborate.

[obtuse lichen]

mica vista astalavista

@north inlet The most based person

[paper cove]

bestman suggestion:
dunjion charakter caled oil whomst can saev life

thank

[summer drift]

We need that mika vesta julien emote back

[autumn flare]

We need the game back

[rigid prawn]

Gotta wait till Nexon stop being arses, direct your frustrations towards them!

[reef spindle]

I wish they show us anything like a new talent so we can talk about something new

new video was nice tho
wish more of it

[arctic jasper]

There was a giant centepide enemy visible in bottom right of vid for a couple frames while sdf was spectating

[cosmic thistle]

Nah I dont see it. Also you are literally the only one saying this.

[arctic jasper]

bottom left then, its def there, you can search on reddit for the screenshot if you want

[cosmic thistle]

Found it. Thats dope af. And yes its the bottom left not right

[arctic jasper]

SWEET, yeah im pumped

[cosmic thistle]

Since its the suggestion discussion tab, im going to give this one a headstart with a twist from the future.

Why should the giant centipede no longer one shot you?

[arctic jasper]

Lmao, i dont think it should one shot, but instead grab you, pin you to a wall and stop movement and bite you a bunch till you die

[cosmic thistle]

Like real life centipedes. Omg this monster could be terrifying. I really hope its not just some canon fodder weak mob like a mummy spider.

[arctic jasper]

judging from the screenshot it looks taller than a goblin standing up so i dont think it will be a pushover but also not too hard to kill

[coral merlin]

This but maybe it sets up a lil charge, pin, bite for like 2 seconds for 50 damage, so like 3 bite sessions would kill u?

[arctic jasper]

yeah i imagine it as a enemy thats attempting to wear down resources

[coral merlin]

Hell, could just nip at you for a shit ton of poison too 😂

[arctic jasper]

Oh god i forgot about poison, that may be more likely

[patent mauve]

Give Bard a song that extends the duration of buffs while its playing.
Let's the party prebuff and charge together, also gives him access to a form of true healing for his team by extending potion durations by 5-6 seconds over the course of playing it.

Then he isn't just spamming accelerando, can buff speed and then do buff duration extensions.

"Rhythmic Charge"

[coral merlin]

I just saw that the centipede applies a stun when the poison is applied

[arctic jasper]

Uh from where lol is there gameplay?

[coral merlin]

It’s in the monster handbook, just a side note, giant centipede is actually a aforementioned monster

[arctic jasper]

Oh, I doubt that would transfer over

[cosmic thistle]

If we are really pulling info from the monster manual to determine its abilities then technically the stun only applies when the character reaches 0 HP. But instead of dying you are stunned with some mechanic to be implemented to get yourself unstunned (since the constitution stat doesnt exist in DaD).

In other words, the stun was never designed to be used during combat but rather a hurdle after combat.

If this were in the goblin caves it would be funny to see people scream for help while they are pinned on the floor at 0 HP waiting for death.

[coral merlin]

😂😂😂

[cosmic thistle]

Soon..you laugh now but soon this will be you.

[coral merlin]

I adore this feature and I pray to the 9th that it’s implemented

[reef spindle]

Enchantments I would delete from the game:
Magical Damage Bonus
Magical Damage Reduction
Move Speed Bonus
Physical Damage Bonus
Physical Damage Reduction
Max Health Bonus

Damage bonuses aren't balance and we already have balance version of it:
Magical Power
Physical Power
Same with Move Speed bonus and Damage Reduction:
Move Speed
Armor Rating
Magic Registance

[hollow flicker]

I agree the modifiers are oversaturated with nominal redundancy, and also most of the copies have values that are so low as to not be able to impact a build

[reef spindle]

I posted more about it on fighter channel

[graceful frost]

Yeah just delete over half for literally no reason

[placid canopy]

I'm sure they'll tune a lot of stuff still. A lot of the numbers are completely wild in comparison to others and some are just the same as other things with a different name most of the time. The variety is neat in the arpg loot system though (why is there only 1 detrimental stat tho? Should prob be 0 or more than 1)

[reef spindle]

there are 37 enchantments and I want them to delete 6
you have no idea what you are talking about

[meager jasper]

Strange thing to say. Magic power and phys power are completely overlooked.at the moment because they are not particularly impactful. I wouldnt call that the "balanced" option. Watering things down so they arent impactful anymore is not balance.

And you sneak hp bonus in there too for some reason? Hp bonuses are great. Additionally I think they fully intend for there to be enchantment bloat so that they can actually have meaningful randomness in what is a good weapon and what is not.

Its like designing a card game. You have to put bad cards in or all the cards wind up boring.

[reef spindle]

you think magical damage bonus is better than magic power?

[reef spindle]

we already have max health enchantment

[meager jasper]

Absolutely. The prpblem with it at the moment it how it's applied, not that it exists. It's currently the only way to make a wizard viable at the baseline but thats because their spells are very weak to counteract the fact they gain it to every tick. It shouldnt apply to every tick.

[reef spindle]

Than you don't know how it works
Magic power gives much more magical damage bonus

1 magic power is 3% magical damage bonus when magic power > 15 and 2% when magic power > 25

So 2 magic power is better than 3% magical damage bonus

[dense sand]

yeah magical damage bonus is good once your will/magic power is high already

[reef spindle]

you need to have more than 40 magic power for magic power to be equal to 1% magical damage bonus

more than 50 magic power and it's only 0,5% magical damage bonus

[meager jasper]

You... do know there's a flat plus magic damage in the game and you didn't specify which right?

[reef spindle]

because flat plus magic damage is named: "Additional Magical Damage"

idk someone could think of it when I wrote about "Magic power" and "magical damage bonus"

[patent mauve]

So true magic damage > Additional

[reef spindle]

true dmg isn't increased by headshots

[patent mauve]

most spells dont headshot tho

[reef spindle]

fighters can have -magic resist

so more dmg against them

[patent mauve]

Definitely up to preference

[reef spindle]

as for spells that can headshot
I think magic missiles and ice bolts can headshot

fireball too can headshot

[obtuse lichen]

They are =

[graceful frost]

Did you not just list 14… also your choices are kinda bleh

If you remove the actual good attributes armor becomes even more useless then it already is. Ig there is still +all but that’s all

[reef spindle]

I listed 6 to be removed
rest of them I listed to prove those 6 aren't needed as we already have balance version of them

[graceful frost]

K bud

[reef spindle]

can you write again what "actual good attributes armor"?

[graceful frost]

I mean the main reason for higher tier armor as almost every class other than fighter and cleric is for attributes. Main great ones are plus damage, true damage, stuff like that. Also dr is good. Just don’t see a reason to remove those and make armor even worse

Just don’t see a reason to remove more attributes, especially those ones

[reef spindle]

any armor can have "Armor Rating/Magic Resistance" enchantment and "Physical/Magical damage reduction"
"Armor rating/Magic Resistance" is balanced but "Physical/Magical damage reduction" isn't imo

[graceful frost]

Then balance it out? Not just remove it lol

[reef spindle]

let's say you are fighter and you have gear giving you max possible Magic Resistance
15 will is 30 magic resistance
from gear you will get 115 magic resistance
145 magic resistance = 27,9% Magical Damage Reduction

[graceful frost]

Ok? You don’t have to bring up the numbers ik about like 95 percent dr fighters?

Why not just balance it instead of remove it…

[reef spindle]

but if you go for gear with max magical damage reduction enchantment you will get 37% just from it

[graceful frost]

Also stuff like plus damage was balanced out decently in pt5 cause it was much harder or impossible to get like +5 dmg on a green or blue

[graceful frost]

Ok? And that means what? Your solution is just to lazily remove attributes.

[reef spindle]

that means it isn't balance as it simple give you damage reduction no matter how much you already have and are you able to get way more of it by stacking this enchantment than other one

[graceful frost]

Ok? When did I ever disagree with that? WHY NOT, balance it INSTEAD OF REMOVING IT?

[reef spindle]

magic resistance, armor rating, physical power, magic power are balanced as you get less the more you have

[graceful frost]

+damage is balanced since you can only get like +1 +2 on lower tier armor and weapons while it takes high tier to get the max. Yeah it doesn’t get less uselful but not everything needs to give diminishing returns

Just doesn’t make sense to flat out remove when you can balance it instead. However the only real one I see an issue with is damage reductions which everyone has commented on 95 percent dr fighter

[reef spindle]

as it can't be really balanced
for it to be balanced it would always have to give less value than "magic resistance, armor rating, physical power, magic power "

[graceful frost]

Sure bud

I mean just the solution of strait up removing is strange. Especially when the more you remove the easier it is to get more damage or physical power OR plus all attributes which is extremely good. You remove a good bit and even more ppl are running around with +6 physical power +1 all on everything

[reef spindle]

+3 damage you can get only on chest armor, 2 hander, pants and pendant

[reef spindle]

plus all attributes are only one weapons now

[graceful frost]

Literally saw them on armor in pt5…

[reef spindle]

show me any screenshot

[graceful frost]

show me any evidence lol? I don’t screenshot every piece of gear I get

Also why remove plus damage if it’s not on everything anymore… it seems balanced so you decide to just remove it

[reef spindle]

where did I say to remove it?

[graceful frost]

“Enchantments I would delete from the game:
Magical Damage Bonus
Magical Damage Reduction
Move Speed Bonus
Physical Damage Bonus
Physical Damage Reduction
Max Health Bonus”

[reef spindle]

and where is remove "plus damage"?

[graceful frost]

Unless your saying percent in that case be specific

[reef spindle]

Physical/Magical damage bonus is +%

[graceful frost]

Saying physical damage bonus can easily be perceived both ways lmao. It’s a bonus if physical damage, that could be plus 2 or plus 2 percent

There is literally no reason to delete a single one of these lol. And just dr needs balanced

Not a single reason to delete them lol

[reef spindle]

I am saying it just like it is in the game

[graceful frost]

Tf does that even mean

[reef spindle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1068515375915999293/1119710927462350889/obraz.png

[graceful frost]

Is it not just called +3 damage or +3 true damage in the game. Saying plus physical damage and physical damage bonus are very similar

Just saying nothing in physical damage bonus implies your talking about the percent. Yeah obviously was a misunderstanding but anyone else easily could have made the same mistake

Either way doesn’t matter still not a single reason to remove any of them lmaooo

[reef spindle]

Physical Damage Bonus
Additional Physical Damage
True Magical Damage
it's not that hard to learn those

[graceful frost]

Do you not realize how similar those first 2 are? You turn around physical damage bonus you get bonus physical damage which is more or less the exact same as additional physical damage. Nothing in there implies it’s a percent that’s all I’m saying.

Again this does not matter lmao. Was a simple misunderstanding and does not relate to the discussion at hand

Still doesn’t make any sense why you would remove any of them lol.

[reef spindle]

No matter how much Physical Damage Bonus you have enchantment giving you Physical Damage Bonus will always give you the same amount
if you already have 20% Physical Damage Bonus and you get +3% Physical Damage Bonus you will have 23% Physical Damage Bonus
if you already have 50% Physical Damage Bonus and you get +3% Physical Damage Bonus you will have 53% Physical Damage Bonus
if you already have 20% Physical Damage Bonus and you get +3 Physical Power you will have 23% Physical Damage Bonus
if you already have 50% Physical Damage Bonus and you get +3 Physical Power you will have 51,5% Physical Damage Bonus

if you get maximum possible enchantments for Physical Damage Bonus you would get 39%
if you get maximum possible enchantments for Physical Power you would get 23 Physical power = 11,5% Physical Power Bonus if you have already 50% Physical Power Bonus from Physical power

but even if you didn't have 50% physical power bonuis from physical power but let's say you would have around 20 Physical Power you would get 23% Physical power bonus from 23 Physical power

so as you just getting Physical Damage Bonus is way better as 39%>23%
if they made so maximum Physical Damage Bonus from enchantments were also 23% than for 80% players physical power bonus and physical power was the same stat

and those who have the best gear stacking both of them means they are getting ~20% physical power bonus on top of their already high physical power bonus

[cosmic thistle]

One thing you fail to realize is that you can have gear with both stats on it for a more efficient build.

[reef spindle]

stats like physical power is to "reward" those who has few and "punish" those who has a lot
this means keeping the stats at the bay

[cosmic thistle]

The min-maxers would never want these stats taken away. Only cheapskates that cant afford both want this "balancing"

[reef spindle]

yep
and this is my point aswell
why we have stats like physical power which tries to balance your damage when getting physical damage bonus make you get out of the balance mechanic

[cosmic thistle]

If there are stats you dont want because others are better, then just spend your gold elsewhere, this is the intention of the design. Gear only sells so well because the alternatives are garbage that the poor folks can afford.

[cosmic thistle]

I imagine it will make much more sense once all of the different stats actually exist and the features they are tied to are out as well. Even as things are right now I can see clear reasons why someone would want to stack physical power, if you are already maxing out everything else, whats a little more, for flexing as well.
I could say "just remove resourcfullness and make buff agility interaction speed" but thats never going to happen because two thirds of resourcfulness's mechanics are not in the game yet. Such as inventory space inceases.

[reef spindle]

of course I will want the best stats on my gear just like all the players
but I am talking about the balance of the enchantments which bypass the mechanics of keeping from ~100% all your stats

[cosmic thistle]

The answer is simple really. Because this intended barrier you think the devs are trying to create to limit peoples stat increases doesnt exist. They want you to use the stats.

[reef spindle]

of course!
I fully agree for talents which gives you physical damage bonus, Physical Damage Reduction, etc
but talents are exclusive for classes
enchantments aren't
having such enchantments means in long run all the classes with have around the same stats

[summer drift]

It would be less confusing not to use % increases for gear in my opinion

Just give people fixed damage increase / reduction numbers

That way you know you'll be dealing 2 extra hp per hit instead of a vague 2.3%

How do you even know if the % applies to your total damage or only base strength or only base weapon damage or some other bs? There's no way to tell without extensive testing

[reef spindle]

well, all the Attribute Stats are giving you +% to something

STR is giving physical power which is +% physical power bonus
AGI is all about giving +% to action/move/item equip speed

I don't think we could easly have enchantments with clear stats (clear stats = you exactly know how much you will be dealing or receving)

[summer drift]

At least it's a fixed increase to a stat, that's easier to understand

[reef spindle]

even without enchantments to understand your starter class with just talents you have to know a lot about the system

[summer drift]

If it gave you +4% strength that would be confusing as heck. And that's not a good system.

[reef spindle]

oh yes, hope they never do this

for enchantments
we already have such a talent

which is already better than other talent in the same class because of how busted it is

talking about wizard's Sage - Increases knowledge by 10%.
is just better Quick Chant - Increases your spell casting speed by 10%
as knowledge you are getting already gives you +10% spell casting speed and all the other bonuses of knowledge like more spell capacity

[summer drift]

I think we wouldn't suffer much from giving us fixed + numbers rather than percentiles

Sometimes it's confusing to figure out why that +2.3% isn't giving you enough knowledge for another point that you need for a spell as a cleric

It means gear would be more useful, for better or for worse

[reef spindle]

oh yes, we shouln't have +% spell capacity at all

• spell capacity should be also only on magical weapons and cloth wizard/cleric armor

[summer drift]

Tfw you realize +1.8% magical capacity isn't doing crap in your build

[cosmic thistle]

Gotta look at the bigger picture. Other classes may have access to magic in the future, even in current build having magic related stats helps determine its value to different classes. Not every piece of equipment should be valuable.

Telling devs to fully remove uncompleted mechanics that have some much easier fixes isnt helpful.

[placid canopy]

It's also completely fine to have random "junk" mods to dilute the pool of good ones so every piece of gear isn't perfect

[cosmic thistle]

Exactly.

[placid canopy]

It is just a little weird when 2 stats do the same thing on a majority of classes though (physical power bonus vs physical power being exactly the same at 15-50)

[reef spindle]

oh, I never said those are junk
opposite
are too powerful even

[cosmic thistle]

I may be a bit biased because I main cleric and so most stats are useful to me.

[cosmic thistle]

You most definently said you wanted some stats removed before.

[reef spindle]

getting +% physical power bonus, +% physical damage reduction is something they should look at

[reef spindle]

yes, because those stats are like other stats but without the "punishment" system

and sometimes less is more

[cosmic thistle]

People will learn. Its really only punishing noobs. And that wont even matter in the long run because the game mechanics will change with new content.

[reef spindle]

having +% physical damage reduction as enchantment is for me a really bad idea

[cosmic thistle]

+% physical damage reduction is meant to be stacked with good armor to reach the cap. Its not bad at all.

[reef spindle]

I don't think you understand
I am talking about the graph value of stats where the more you have the less you are getting

not skill of players, I am talking about the system we have
the system like in dark souls where adding +1 STR is a lot when having only 10 STR but it is nothing when having 90 STR

[cosmic thistle]

So you have nothing against the stat itself, you just want to graph values to make more sense.

[reef spindle]

also talking about removing those few enchantments, not stats
I am fine with talents giving those stats

[cosmic thistle]

Why would you want them outright removed? Isnt there better ways around it?

I get that you are saying some enchanments are worse than others but what is wrong with that?

If physical power % bonus is a terrible enchantment then when players figure it out and never prioritize that enchantment than that may be exactly the kind of marketplace ironmace wants to create, or they want them all to be equally valuable for different builds and change things. For now saying they should be removed is a bit hasty.

[reef spindle]

as those stats increases your power and defence no matter how much you already have
it is counter intuitive to the system of preventing stacking the same stat to become too powerful to handle for others

[reef spindle]

I am saying physical damage bonus is terrible enchantment because of how powerful it is for already super geared players

[cosmic thistle]

Sounds like a feature. Very intentional. Thats what builds are all about. Of course they want you to take multiple different enchantments if they add so many and make singular ones give diminishing returns.

[cosmic thistle]

The devs have already shown favor to wanting extremely powerful gear to be in players hands.

high gear players needing to find extremely niche enchantments to get even stronger seems like intentional design.

[reef spindle]

why than have all those different armors when you get 73% physical damage reduction no matter the armor you are wearing

[cosmic thistle]

Because this isnt the reality of the game. All armor is useful for something else.

Ive never felt that full plate gave me the same physical damage reduction as leather. Enchantments or not.

This seems less about enchantments and more about nerfing powerful players.

[reef spindle]

more about preventing super extra powerful players

[cosmic thistle]

The average player will never reach the absolute cap for AR and say "This game is unfair, now I need to get damage reduction enchantments to progress further"

And the best players reaching that IS THE INCENTIVE to be the best players. Whats the point in being extremely skilled in a full loot game if the loot never makes you stronger than someone putting on a 100g gearset.

Im very impressed with how the gear scaling works, even if its rather hard to comprehend.

[reef spindle]

I don't understand why are you for enchantments which can give you ~40% resistance to damage no matter what
resistance being for those who has proper armor (so also class) is much better for the health of the game

with armor rating from enchantments alone you can get 23,9% physical damage reduction
seems balanced for me

[cosmic thistle]

We can only wait and see what it becomes in the future. I can garuantee they wont follow the suggestion of "remove best enchants in the game to make it harder to get stronger and impossible to tell the difference between the strongest gear and worst gear"

[cosmic thistle]

Extremely, hard part is getting the gear. Once you have done that, just dont lose it and you should feel the power.

I know you are being sarcastic, but this really doesnt need balancing, its a build. There are counters to it, basic balancing, no need to outright remove the build when so much more can be done instead.

[reef spindle]

and you can see how much the +% physical damage reduction changes if from it alone you can get ~40%
but from armor rating 23,9% and more armor rating won't increases it to crazy number

[cosmic thistle]

Idk. Ive gotten to 68% damage reduction with epics and no enchantments.

Thats a pretty significant change from the base armor you describe.

[reef spindle]

with those enchantments you will see really similar builds on every class
get to 90% damage resistance, get us much speed and damage you can
as again, those enchantments doesn't help people to make different builds but builds which are similar to eachother

[cosmic thistle]

Saying it wont change much from stacking more armor rating past base armor is just false.

[reef spindle]

let's say you got another 125 armor rating, so you have now 250 armor rating = 58.9% damage resistance

[cosmic thistle]

This would only be true if there was only 1 damage type. Getting 95% physical damage reduction can easily be countered with other builds. So in the long run you really shouldn't be seeing only this one build being the only viable one everyone flocks too.

Being DPS as a rogue will also always be a viable build since they can outright ignore most of your armor.

[reef spindle]

it doesn't stop you to get reduction to magic damage

[cosmic thistle]

Both with poison, rupture, or weakpoint.
Different builds other than DR ones can counter DR builds regardless of the damage type. But in most cases people will be 95% in one or the other but not both with even the strongest of gearsets. So a magic damage build can wipe them out.

[reef spindle]

I know it is only for the top of the top players but still

[cosmic thistle]

Also more damage types are already teased to exist in the future so you will partially be getting what you want, making more build diversity.

[reef spindle]

if 2 enchantments can get you 37% to both physical and magical damage reduction I think people will go after them

[cosmic thistle]

Yes, some will, its a build. Everyone will go for many different builds that on their own seem OP but in reality everyone can go for a different build that seems OP. Thats balanced enough for now.

[reef spindle]

I think those new damages will still be magical damage but we will get more talents to improve them, like we have now

[cosmic thistle]

Its not like everyone is trying to be a tank build. Its not even as good as you are making it out to be.

I play as the tanky cleric. I didnt suddenly become invincible when I put the armor on. Half of the other enchantments when stacked to the max still contend with me.

[reef spindle]

how balances are enchantments as again stacking one enchantment is straight better than stacking other?

[placid canopy]

Weakpoint has entered the chat

[reef spindle]

physical damage bonus is worse than physical power
physical damage reduction is better than armor rating
magic power is way batter than magical damage bonus

[cosmic thistle]

True damage, weakpoint, reckless attack, traps (maybe) and tons of other things I cant think of right now can counter you.

[placid canopy]

It's fine to have some stats just be weaker that others tbh. Think about it like a high or low roll in a big range rather than 2 dif stats. Not saying it's balanced, but the idea is fine on its own

[cosmic thistle]

For me personally, I could still die from enough magical damage. I actually lost this kit and it was from getting trapped inbetween ghost king and a skeleton champion when trying to run through the room and my teamate closed the door on me.

The ghost king just get spamming the missile attack until I died.

[reef spindle]

39% magic damage bonus from itself
25 magic power = 45% magic damage bonus
and this is when having already 20 Will

[cosmic thistle]

Lamest way to lose a god set.

[tawny python]

i think that should be a soft cap . on most all stat like will . this will remove the stacking of 1 stat for any class .

[tawny python]

any guy with 90 % physical reduction can beat any skill player .

[cosmic thistle]

Not true. With enough skill you will know ways around the armor. There are also a lot of play styles that don’t prioritize killing other people.

Even if it’s physical and magic damage reduction there are still abilities that ignore armor.

[coral merlin]

Armor gaps

[summer drift]

Good video to show the difference in damage from being stabbed with clothes on and not https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZbPY6Nj_ock

You definitely don't want to NOT be wearing any armor/clothes when you get hit

So I think the idea of giving people a lot more increased damage taken for getting hit in a non-covered body part makes sense

[cosmic thistle]

Good visual thinking. The "weakpoint" skill is rather self explanatoryin that sense. Very immersive.

[obtuse lichen]

conclusion is 2 buff armor XD by reducing movement speed penalty from it

Anyways increasing uncovered limbs damage is a good idea as well but people already get
1 or 2 shoted when they go naked unless it's a barb

What are you going to do with a barb without chest armor as well?

[summer drift]

Get chest armor lol. Once you have a few coins it's irrelevant. Basic gear is like 8gp average on shops

[obtuse lichen]

• my idea to decrease movement penalty from every armor piece by 5 is still standing
  It will encourage people use cloth armor and at the same time will make naked meta useless
• it will remove 5 ms difference between naked and medium armor by 5 because the armor that was giving -10 will give -5 only now

[summer drift]

You only need legs, chest and hat to remove the debuff

[obtuse lichen]

Yes and remove idk the name of the perk

[summer drift]

Barb perk for shirtless?

[obtuse lichen]

savage perk that increases damage by 10% when not wearing any chestpiece

[summer drift]

I mean now they would have a reason to buff it more lol it's an even bigger tradeoff

It may balance out the barbarians having too much HP at the start if you can stab then in the gut and kill them faster

Your idea is good too but I'd rather take 5 speed from all characters as a base instead of increasing it. The game being slow is a good thing.

[obtuse lichen]

I don't think ttk was a problem with naked builds
The problem is a movement speed

[summer drift]

Nerf the rogue's speed too while at it

[obtuse lichen]

@summer drift Actually taking away 5 base speed with my change is really good idea if people don't like increasing ms speed

[summer drift]

Yeah

Also the rogue has too much crap as it is. They can detect traps while the ranger can't, they can buff attributes for the party while the bard can't, and to top it all off rogue players get such good perks they don't even use those sometimes

The rogue is BS. It sucks that they can run away so easily from anything dangerous

[obtuse lichen]

Nah i dont think its a big of the problem and it should stay the way it is rn
People are going to adapt and use more ranged or even more interesting strats against rogues and other classes

[summer drift]

You could carry like 10 stacks of throwing knives as a counter measure like I've seen people do

Not exactly fun imo

[obtuse lichen]

Well as i said the other day the game isn't really balanced around 1v1 situations and it's more about a teamplay
and every class pretty much every class has it's counterpick

[summer drift]

Fair enough. Never go in without range

I'd really like to suggest more weighted strafing for the game, not letting people dash dance from side to side so hard

[obtuse lichen]

Rogue was fair in pt4 they just overbuffed him in pt5 by giving jokester and double jump + hand crossbow at the same time
But i personally still never had any problems with them except while was playing on the ruins

I think jokester should be bard perk not rogue

[summer drift]

#remove double jump

It breaks all maps easily

[placid canopy]

They're adding flying eventually. What's that gonna do?

[granite plinth]

They just making people look at all corners of map, basically activating your bebega brain

[obtuse lichen]

lmao

[spice sigil]

I disagree. double jump is really badass and not that hard to deal with. NOW being able to do it endlessly is foolish. a cool-down is an option but not the best one. A charge's system would be very nice. You would have to rest to get your double jumps back.

I like the idea of it only works if you had a surface to jump off, such as a wall or another player.

There are better ways to deal with it than getting rid of it.

The jokester was broken and needed a nerf I think some classes sharing perks would be ok. it makes sense for both rouges and bards to have jokester. and give it a small nerf. focus on bug fixes around it would be nice too.

Another thing is that almost ALL of rouges perks did not work in pt4 almost NONE OF THEM. So he went from trash to being able to help his team. This sudden jump in power was jarring for sure.

[placid canopy]

Wdym they didn't work? Which?

They definitely all worked fine

[rare barn]

@keen onyx I liked the pt. 4 health UI much better, it was sleeker, new one looks nice but its a bit chunky, plus please go back to the green it was so much nicer ❤️

[granite plinth]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/976054524533940234/987667943385104424/Tomorrow_is_June_19.mp4

[obtuse lichen]

bring back green hp bar

[olive kettle]

copyright infringement

[placid canopy]

They could just like... turn it green. Can't copyright a color

[olive kettle]

can copyright an expression of an idea so technically yes ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[obtuse lichen]

aahahah nexon should sue every game that has green hp bars then

[misty grotto]

When are they gonna add mounts

[neat horizon]

guys imagine if light orb was actually useful and you could use it in the storm to temporarily stop taking damage

[patent mauve]

Make magelight stick to players. You wanna chase me? Now youre a christmas tree looking goofy.

[summer drift]

Especially if it sticks to an invisible rogue so your party can nail them

[placid canopy]

I imagine that'll be added in the form of faerie fire eventually

[graceful frost]

That’s a bad idea. Just starts. A zone camping meta with wizard.

[neat horizon]

the zone closes wwawy too fast anyway

[lilac locust]

guys what do you think about combining jewels with other valuables like crowns and etc... like resident evil 4

usable for quests or selling them for more value

[graceful frost]

Yeah the recent change was a bit too much in my opinion but idk

[spice sigil]

In part 4. Ambush was non-functional until pt4 dagger expert did not always function correctly. And jokester was bugged so you could stack it an infinite amount of times

[summer drift]

Interesting idea. Maybe a class could get the jeweler perk for it, or you could do it outside the dungeon for free

[north inlet]

There shall be unique weapons or items that are found in the map, that can only be used during the current level and can not be extracted with. That is all.

[pure pollen]

this would also give a purpose to valuables being tradeable on the market

[summer drift]

True

Could sell cheap gems in bulk for profit, and having to beat the trading fee already makes it hard enough to balance out against selling them right away to merchants

[placid canopy]

I mean I guess I can't comment on dagger expert in tests before this one but you probably just didn't have a high enough damage weapon for it to cause an impact. Ambush worked for me in previous tests just fine. It was even working with invis pots on top of hide. Kinda wild to say "almost NONE OF THEM" worked and also bring up jokester being bugged cuz it still worked fine even if it was bug abusable

[spice sigil]

if you had a good time with rouge before I am glad. Ambush was bugged for the whole pt4 it just flat out did not work

I can try and find some threads to prove it brb

[placid canopy]

I found what you meant. It was bugged the first day and then fixed

[spice sigil]

maybe I was useing it wrong then since it never worked for me

could very well be a skill issue but I cannot remember it working a single time when I tried it in the tavern

[summer drift]

Isn't poison really good if you're using ranged weapons like knives and crossbow bolts?

[placid canopy]

Poison is almost never good. Also poison didn't apply via crossbow

[abstract swallow]

Poison Weapons is broken in the bad way, they really need to un-fuck the damage math for effects and replace debuff duration before Early Access.

[faint onyx]

Ceric spell "Purify" - Cleanse target player of all debuffs (slows, poison, fire) and buffs (ignite, barb shout, etc)

[dusk olive]

why? we already have cleanse, its that but better

[placid canopy]

They'll prob also add dispell magic or something for removing buffs on enemies

[faint onyx]

I like the idea of making it one spell so that it punishes wiffing and casting it on a team mate

Wizard double jump sue me

[dusk olive]

the punishment of whiffing already exists, its called wasting a spell

[lethal rampart]

How do I enter in a suggestion?

[lethal rampart]

ok the enter suggestions to vote on channel is closed probably, but what do you guys think about an idea where each floor of the dungeon has distinct pvp feel? you can modify the escape/down extracts and the circle in order to make each floor have different risks and pvp experience?

[solar falcon]

add crabb

[spice sigil]

I love this idea

[granite plinth]

I hope spell scrolls will be implemented in the EA. Having one-time-use spell as lootable items can provide great potential for strategic variety, making them good trading items.

New utility spells from D&D, such as Arcane Lock, Passwall, Darkness, and Clairvoyance, can be used in creative ways to create diverse situations in PvP. However, they require a significant amount of work for just a single class to use. Spell scrolls can compensate for that by opening opportunities for all classes to use them when they are in desperate need.

[bleak dagger]

I hope they implement EA in EA, as of so far there is none.

[granite plinth]

Wait for them to win the injunctions. No playtest or EA is likely to happen unless Nexon keeps their mouth shut.

[bleak dagger]

that's years to come

[granite plinth]

AFAIK, It takes one or two months rather than years.

[bleak dagger]

that still feels like years to me.

[granite plinth]

[upper sonnet]

I think there's a slight chance they may do a PT before the Injunction

Nexon didn't mention anything about PT5 (probably because them removing all the contested art kind of shoots a hole through their copyright side of the case) so there's nothing stopping them from doing another one to iron out the kinks before EA

Maybe also test out their launcher since I think Steam still won't let them host it even if the Injunction is struck down since Valve wants to cover their ass too much

So likely it will have to be hosted on their own website like how they just bought the Domain for Darkanddarker

doing EA prior to the Injunction being settled is a bit risky especially with the fact that they expedited Nexon's request because of EA being soon.

Sounded like they want to have the hearing first before EA is launched and if they go behind their back for that it's not gonna be good for them in court and they'd probably get a harsher time from the judge

[faint onyx]

They will not do EA before the injunction. It is too risky, it could be seen as showing disregard for the courts and a judge might get pissed off

[upper sonnet]

It depends on case by case, some devs did so and it was fine, but the expedited summons request specifically called out on EA as a factor why they granted the request to Nexon.

[tawny python]

if you deal magic dmg / or you have some ability that that let ignore armor . if you dont its impossible to kill 80% fighter physical reduction if the enemy have 100 health a 45 dmg he will receive 9 dmg u need 10 hits to kill him

[upper sonnet]

So it'd be insanely dumb to launch EA after asking for an extension after they expedited their summons for the sole reason of them wanting to have the hearing before EA was on the table

Still they seemed to have gotten a big influx of money somehow so the server cost concern may not be an issue for a PT

[obtuse lichen]

Yep

[glacial sphinx]

I think its extremely unlikely to expect a playtest out of nowhere without any official pre announcement of a date. It would be bad for testing purposes as well as for marketing since there wouldn't be time to spread the word and get the most people possible playing.

[summer drift]

It already happened once. You can't expect everyone to play if you have to host your own launcher outside of Steam; in fact it may be better that people don't overload the servers. I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility.

[mellow acorn]

they’ve done it before

[glacial sphinx]

When?

[glacial sphinx]

They've never done it without announcing a specific date beforehand.

[summer drift]

Pretty sure Playtest 5 was up in the air when it launched. Nobody was expecting it to launch even though they had confirmed way before that they would try to make it in a certain timeframe. And the reason for it being up in the air was that they couldn't use Steam, just like now.

[glacial sphinx]

That one had a specific date announcement, so it is as I said

[summer drift]

That was before the Steam page went down. They had no obligation to meet the date then and no one was expecting it. The date had been announced a while back