suggestion-discussion

[hazy wagon]

and without tons of features added

[umbral valve]

If they are in all grey items their damage and survivability should be trash compared to a player in higher tier gear. The lesser player should have to work harder in a fight to win, not win when trading blow for blow.

[short mulch]

playtest 3 was the best for sure.

[trail forge]

This game's charm was derived from its janky simplicity and slow paced. It is sort of losing that plot in this and the last playtest @hazy wagon

[short mulch]

well...in the end tomarrow is the last day of the test if they are keeping it on scedule

[hazy wagon]

People have lost sight of the original play style...literally anything could kill you regardless of gear

[trail forge]

Lesser to should mean skill not gear if we're talking about a genuinely competitive pvp game. Maybe this game doesn't want to have to be that, but it is an issue when combat devolves to who one shots who first

[lavish palm]

They might be trying to understand exactly how to do it. Seeing as they have to make like multiple MASSIVE trees for some characters with lots of options. As well as having to determine which perks should be base and which ones should be higher or lower in the trees. That sort of thing.

[uneven lodge]

which classes can go blow for blow and win against better geared players?

[hazy wagon]

rogue

[short mulch]

ahh thats completely fair. there is quite a bit to it

[uneven lodge]

blow for blow?

[sterile lily]

how can rog go blow for blow and win

[trail forge]

Yeah with the new hit and run mobility and rupture/bleed on melee and now ranged, my money is on rogue. Not blow for blow - the point is they don't get hit

[lavish palm]

Yo btw this is random af, but just noticed your pfp. Fire

[sterile lily]

he can 4sure go blow and dont get hit against max geared players, but not blow for blow

[umbral valve]

Example a fighter getting better plate armor, increasing their armor and physical damage reduction. Put a grey starter barbarian against it and the barbarian should lose.

[short mulch]

hah thanks. i just realized yours as well, heck yea

[hazy wagon]

this isn't the nepoleonic war, people don't stand in orderly lines and stand still while being attacked

[trail forge]

Yeah that's how the game works. I'm lost as to the point you're making

[sterile lily]

the question was blow for blow, answer was for that one specific quesiton

[uneven lodge]

wouldnt that be an outplay?

[umbral valve]

Lost the point that geared out characters should outclass naked players if they are paying attention to each other.

[trail forge]

Yes, but given they are the only class with a kit complete enough right out the gate to even make it possible you can probably argue they are over tuned if the premise of this game's balancing is gear should make you king: every class should be worthless without it

[hazy wagon]

that question is irrelevant to actual gameplay

[sterile lily]

wtf

[hazy wagon]

blow for blow...with skills, without skills, with or without spells?

[trail forge]

I wasn't saying they don't, I'm saying gear scales way too much and it's why nothing feels balanced and we keep getting weird changes like wizard's starting stats getting dumpstered because they don't know how to handle them once they get geared

[hazy wagon]

Because an ungeared drunk cleric with bless and holy weapon can mess up a geared player of any class

[lavish palm]

If they're balancing around rng gear stats then yes, that's a massive problem. The characters should be good on their own, and the gear should be addons. Not necessary and gamechanging.

You can still have IMPACTFUL gear, but not something that is so good it almost changes the character.

[hazy wagon]

but that's like saying batman can beat any superhero with enough prep time

[sterile lily]

my guy asks straight up question if two zug zugs come at each other and they hit each other, what class in this crazy scenario has a chance to win against better geared player and u are straight up gaslightin me into thinkin I were wrong for answering that rogue cannot do that, crazy life we live

[trail forge]

I'm not a dev, but I can't imagine how hard it is to balance the current system. There's way too many different stats and the spread across the different tiers is too small for any fine tuning.

[hazy wagon]

no, I'm asking you to give actual meaningful feedback. Are you saying standing still with no skills or abilities, or using all tools at their disposal?

I can't think of a single time I've dueled in the way you're suggesting, over 4 play tests

[sterile lily]

cool, but that wasnt the question he asked, am i right or am I wrong yes or no scenario

[hazy wagon]

if you're going blow for blow and dueling, that's a skill issue

[sterile lily]

that wasn't the point of the question he asked

[hazy wagon]

the question was a hypothetical that ignores the way the game is played

[proud tinsel]

im just to nice for this game

Love these people who kill me just to die from poison, was that fun for you?? No then stop doing it lol

[hazy wagon]

I mean half the fun of solo rogue is just to ruin other peoples runs

[proud tinsel]

Yeah i cant do that

[short mulch]

ugh how aggrivating. i have thing i was trying to post about how rogue is way to op but can't post it because it "contains content that is blocked" no links or anything

[proud tinsel]

Ruining someone elses day just makes you a bad person, if you get kicks from that you need therapy

[umbral valve]

If two Fighters started swinging at each other and one was in the starter kit and the other one was in Green and Blue gear, it should take the starter Fighter more swings to kill the litter Fighter. If it takes the starter fighter the same amount of swings to kill the geared guy, that’s a balance issue. And I think only giving the kitted fighter only 1 extra hit worth of HP isn’t enough-I’d say 2 or 3 extra hits would be fair compared to the players’ items.

[eager creek]

nah, items are way too oppresive imo. its just a gear race

[sterile lily]

if the green blues can negate 60+dmg, then it's pretty imbalanced imo.

[umbral valve]

Idk 2 extra hits then not 3

[heavy sentinel]

i think cleric has insane 1v1 potential if given a second of prep even in starter gear

between the shields and bless and the smite ability you can 2 tap anything but a barb usually

[sterile lily]

2 hs hits startin gear lvl 1 is 49dmg

[short mulch]

short version. rogue has double jump with no cool down and back flip. has rupture. can put that on throwing knives and hand crossbow. poison that stacks to 5 per tick. perk that ignores 15% armor. perk that gives 30% more damage backstabs. they are fastest class and any move speed bonus makes them a nightmare. especally speed fountian. even with small health pool a rogue could easily obliterate especally in goblin area. not to mention gear bonuses. rogue too op

[livid basalt]

yeah i think double jump feels gaaamebreaky

[short mulch]

not even including if you switch back flip with invis ability and have the 50% bonus from coming out of invis

[livid basalt]

even if it was like a vault with an animation thatd fix it i think

[trail forge]

Fought a rogue in b2 library and he jumped on the bookcase onto the railing and it was like "this isn't even the same game"

[proud tinsel]

have you played one? Rangers are still better imo

[livid basalt]

theres no reason to not play rogue after youre high enough level you have the best movement, ranged options, and stealth

[lofty temple]

add 50% more time in all games.

[heavy sentinel]

had a rogue in the goblin caves the other day just double jumping up and down entire floors in the area with all the walkways and stuff, he'd double jump to the top then throw poison knives then when id get up there hed just jump down and if i go down he goes back up

[past dome]

but lets not forget a grey longsword basically oneshots you, lord have mercy you even get hit in the foot by a buffed barb

[short mulch]

have been all day. been doing way better then with any other class.

[livid basalt]

and like rip ranger lmao, 1 trap, arrows disappear in the spiders like oooof

[ruby galleon]

just walk away...

[heavy sentinel]

dude i did then he cahses throwing knives at me

[short mulch]

even faught a ranger and he couden't do anything. he died without hitting me lol

[ruby galleon]

if he chased you into another area then he couldnt abuse the double jump right?

[livid basalt]

yeah its tough i dropped ranger for rogue and icant go back, the 6 hp aint worth it lmao

[rocky copper]

!!URGENT!!
How do i give my dead hamster CPR? (Long story short, i threw him at the wall)

[heavy sentinel]

couldnt get to another area cause hed follow and poke from a range anythime i tried to leave

[livid basalt]

i was a lvl 20 ranger 1trick last playtest too q.q

[lofty temple]

reduce poison damage of goblin by 50%.. wtf its the hardest make, hr map its impossible to die in pve. cave 1 hit -60% hp

[heavy sentinel]

actually the easiest attack to dodgge in the game lol

[polar pasture]

why the block doesnt work in the game?

[short mulch]

same. also was a level 20 fighter and a level 20 barb. think maybe level 20 cleric but don't remember. i don't have a single level 20 anymore because of this mess

[umbral valve]

They already reduced the poison damage last playtest. Just don’t get hit.

[fading imp]

rapier needs a parry imo

[heavy sentinel]

extremely directional block if any part of their weapon goes over the top of the shield it can still hit, like a big barb axe can still catch the top of your head over your shield if you dont "fully" block it

[short mulch]

heck i used to be able to go around as a barb with nothing but my fists and still win most fights for craps and giggles. can't even do that anymore...

i don't even see solo players in crypt anymore. if there is its a rogue lol

[lavish palm]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh use the revive spell on cleric

[rocky copper]

This isn’t a time for tomfoolery, he id dying

[polar pasture]

still think that the block is complete bad even aiming at the correct angle you still get hit by players and mobs

[lavish palm]

Okay fine. Use the revive spell, THEN use sanctuary. He'll be back to full health in no time!

[lavish palm]

Yeah I've never really had it work, lmao. And when it DOES work, they can just hit you IMMEDIATELY afterwards so like tf is the point?

[short mulch]

you do. you have to keep backing away but even then a ax skeleton can lunge and still hit you

[hazy wagon]

the speed nerf is so massive. First thing I do on cleric is drop the shield

[pale bloom]

Without it there'd be no point to loot and attaining better gear. They simply need to force a gearscore system to force higher geared people into High Roller once at a certain point

[proud tinsel]

Rogue is so overrated its like laughable. All of you crying about how its op need to go play it

[polar pasture]

i was testing even with the pavise alot of the time you still get hit by arrows etc

[proud tinsel]

Escaping on ranger/cleric/barb/fighter is still 10x easier I have not played wiz or bard so no comment on them

[pale bloom]

It's so overrated that every match is clogged full of naked Rogues

[short mulch]

again. played it all day. have ripped through people easily. its op.

[proud tinsel]

yeah and they are always naked for a reason lol

[sterile lily]

[proud tinsel]

the 1 you see with gear is the one that should scare ya the rest are dying to pve

[pale bloom]

Rogue is absurd with no gear on, double jump, rupture. You more or less have speed hack with little to no penalty because you can zoom in and out of slow swinging weapons. Get in trouble? You just jump up a rock and away to safety.

[short mulch]

^

[lavish palm]

I hate rouges omf. I hate how they're the "solo sweat lord" character. They're so unbearably boring. Idc if they're op or not, they're just obnoxious running around doing everything 9 times faster than me and running faster than I could even hope to keep up with.

[wicked zenith]

rooms have way to many enemies you cant clear them fast enough as duo or solo and when zone pressures you its lost

[proud tinsel]

ok go play it, you will see how wrong you are

[lofty temple]

but 1 time hit on 15 game is enough for lose gear of 1k

[trail forge]

I think they should remove movement penalties from the starting gear. It's beyond silly that running around naked is an undeniable advantage.

If they have to retool movement penalties on other gear fine, but immediately ditching your clothes on a fresh run is bad design

[rocky copper]

No.

[pale bloom]

I'm watching somebody I know play now and laugh at what you're saying. They said they are playing with no clothes for a reason and it's too easy to play. I don't have to play something to see how absurd it actually is.

They are jumping as high as they can, watching everywhere they can and jumping down like batman to assassinate before jumping back up and out of dodge

[trail forge]

Another bad taste joke I see

[rocky copper]

💀👖

[short mulch]

i even play with cloths on and still can easily rip through everyone lol. rogue is silly easy and im a shit rogue player. i rather be loud n proud break down a door barb.

[proud tinsel]

ok i guess this play test im just a god tier ranger and cleric and i suck at rogue its not that rangers are better at everything

[lofty temple]

i know

[polar pasture]

rogue archer and mage are op, but the problem is that the "tank" classes like fighter and cleric cant block almost nothing is a gamble to block

[short mulch]

is mage even op anymore? they pretty much nerfed his crap into the ground.

[wicked zenith]

the black skele moves way tooooo fast

[pale bloom]

LOL Pass whatever you're smoking. Ranger is almost as bad as Bard is. Slow knocking arrows with no mobility perks/abilities like Rogue make that a laughable statement

[proud tinsel]

I just count it by my bank at 20 my clerics bank is full of epics, my rangers bank is full of epics my rogue is 17 and has 7 g

[short mulch]

ok that i disagree with. i can go in as a ranger and do pretty dang well until i come across a rogue

[glacial zephyr]

How's rogue more dangerious then, say, fighter? Or ranger?

[short mulch]

or...a three stack god teir players. then there is no hope lol

[regal lotus]

new account
says ranger is bad in dark and darker, almost as bad as bard
ignored lmao

[proud tinsel]

all im killing on my rogue is other rogues

[glacial zephyr]

People just get ambushed and go "lmao OP", while after the initial burst you have nothing. No damage, no tankiness, no range

[pale bloom]

In Goblin cave, sure. You aren't doing that and getting that in Ruins or Crypts. You most definitely aren't 1v3 or eve 2 in those maps

[glacial zephyr]

In an open fight rogue loses to everything but bard
(Given that opponents are equally geared and not braindead)

[hearty quest]

rougue losses to bard to

[keen grove]

Did they increase the darkness in Howling Crypts? It just feels almost annoyingly dark this play test. I get using the darkness tactically but it just feels too dark right now.

[short mulch]

high speed. mobility perk and mobility ability. do silly amounts of damage with rupture,poison and backstab perks. any gear increse makes them nearly a god. not to mention if they kept the sneak the 50% flat bonus when out of sneak

[regal lotus]

I mean you are doing it all the time in ruins as ranger. Get high ground, see team a mile away, make it rain.

[eager creek]

yea they did, im not a fan either

[hazy wagon]

man, crafted gear really needs to be limited to high roller

[short mulch]

also rupture can be used on hand crossbow and throwing knives

[glacial zephyr]

Rupture is only 20 damage, and as a DOT. It's trash

[pale bloom]

With as slow as bow knocks I now know you're making a meme out of it considering all the cover both ruins and crypt has lol

[glacial zephyr]

Weakpoint gives more damage anyday with any gear

[short mulch]

by itself yes. combined with poison and the perk that ignores 15% armor the numbers ramp up to silly

[regal lotus]

lol. Get good noob. Ranger is strong

[fading imp]

dots in general too strong due to scaling

[short mulch]

especally if its a non grey weapon

[glacial zephyr]

Why ignore 15% of something that realistically doesn't work, too? Just in case you meet that one overgeared fighter?

[hazy wagon]

or, you know, enemies

[fading imp]

Common misconception that armor pen is only good on tanky targets. It makes squishier even squishier. WoW had same issue back when armor pen was a thing.

[glacial zephyr]

10% dagger damage is better then.
And IDK sure my opening hit with blue dagger and nothing else is around 70 and that's good, but after that - nothing.

I don't count double jump here since it's stupid, OP and will be removed

[fading imp]

someone with 20% DR losing 15% of it is more lethal than a tank losing 15% and they have 65%

[glacial zephyr]

That's actually the other way around

[glad current]

Suggestion: More communication.

[short mulch]

because -15% armor reduct plus 30% back damage plus 20 damage from rupt plus however many damage from poison plus any mobility perks, abilitys etc. it adds up really quickly. even if you switch out back flip with weak point it just makes it even worse with a whopping 50% extra damage and also destroying the opponents armor by 50% for 5 seconds

[lavish palm]

Are you saying because it's not a flat 15% reduction and it's actually 15% OF the DR that gets taken off?

I'm legitimately asking btw, idk how it's coded.

[ripe latch]

YOU KIDS still hoping the game will work LOL\

[quaint basin]

jars and fences are bugged - some players can walk right through them and for others theyre not destroyed yet

[glacial zephyr]

@short mulch no one will let you hit their backs, unless it's an opening hit but yeah, the initial burst AKA almost everything you've mentioned, is really good, the problem is after that rogue is quite useless

[pale bloom]

Strong at what exactly? It's frankly kind of a joke class at the moment. Fighters AR is gonna allow them to push you in corridors and take minimal damage before they get to you. 1 hatchet from a Barb and you're slowed down moving (if he gets it off obv) but you'll still die in two hits, one if it's a head hit. And that's with gear. Movement is so janky that with ammo limitations now, you dont' wanna waste your shots. And if you do, you have to slow reload, even though your inventory is acting like a quiver so you shouldnt' hav eto reload any shots to begin with. A Ranger is supposed to be a nimble shooter, yet for some reason Rogue gets a double jump into obscure areas for no reason. Made worse by how hard Rogue hits with Rupture along with poison and the ability to just pop up, demolish your health then stealth or bunny hop to safety. No, it isn't in a good spot. Oh yeah, lets point out also that traps are easily just jumped over. Even in cramped doorways. ANd take no time for somebody to disarm even if they see it. It should take a class other than ranger twice as long to disarm since they aren't "Proficient" in using traps.

[granite plinth]

Hello guys i have a suggestion

Add keep inventory option!

[elfin wadi]

Add a easy dungeon cus i suck and the only time i got items i lost them because i died and i dont know why i lost them because i didnt leave

[regal lotus]

LMAO

[olive ridge]

Isn't that just the normal dungeon?

[lofty temple]

bank share between all character

[elfin wadi]

no like easier cuz i suck horribly

[hearty quest]

go bard then

[eager creek]

what cope, so all the rangers that are top of killers outlaw are just built diff?

[olive ridge]

You will get better mate, run gobbo caves if you don't have a team

[elfin wadi]

i tried that but i just can't kill the goblins (I killed two but lost the items cuz i died)

[hearty quest]

what class are you playing??

[olive ridge]

Fighter I guess?

[short mulch]

that is true but even minus the backstab bonus, the sheer movement speed and any kind of bonuses can just send rogue into sillyness. say for example a rogue pulled off what i said. barb is done for. fighting might have a chance if he can either block or duel wield. rangers if they catch the rogue at a distance have a chance but if they are up close tis too late. bard can't get a song off and no one can run because rogue will be right there. if you know attack patterns then its just game over

[pale bloom]

They are with groups first off. And they are picking off kills from hits. Those aren't solo experiences and if you think they are put the copium down

[elfin wadi]

i've tried bard barbarian fighter rouge and someone else

[short mulch]

this also is just a hypethetical 1 on 1. not even a team of them

[elfin wadi]

they should make it to were even if you die you get to keep some of the items

[hearty quest]

how do you fight then? if your playing carefully and take your time you can dogg the goblins

[glacial zephyr]

That's the point. If rogue is not the one starting the fight - he gets oneshot by a barb, twoshot if he's using 1h axe. For example. Same with, say, ranger. Pretty much every class must start the fight on it's terms.

But there is one more thing which makes rogues good - if rogue is overgeared - he becomes very strong, simply because of scailing mechanics, but barely anyone runs those kits

[elfin wadi]

i try to move back but the goblins catch up

[hearty quest]

i vdont know what to say then because if you bait an attch walk back out of range then attcak, and repeat you shouldnt get hit 90% of the time

[umbral valve]

High roller Goblin Caves with leaderboards and a 2nd floor.

[elfin wadi]

thing is when i try to walk out while still facing them im not fast enough

[flint viper]

If you want your game to work, force close with task manager and reopen, will eventually work if you keep doing it

[hearty quest]

then block with a shield as a fighter?

[elfin wadi]

i tried that but when i did that i couldn't swing my sword

while shielding

[hearty quest]

you swing after each attack, in no case can you just swing, swing, swing, you have to follow the flow of combat and swing, swing, block, swing swing block, or swing, walk back, swing swing, walk back

[elfin wadi]

ok ill try that

[short mulch]

true. tho ive had many instances of having the fight start on not my terms as a rogue and completely just dodged everything. even getting hit by a barb first somehow not dieing and proceeded to body him. ranger shoots arrows i side step them and kill them. only one who destroys me as a rogue is another rogue. his attack speed pretty much just out damages anyone attacking. only time i can safely say i died to another class was a fighter and honestly im not even sure how considering i was stabbing the crap out of them with rupture, poison and weak point

[hearty quest]

never fought a good bard

[covert barn]

Give bards a buckler for the swashbuckler vibe

[short mulch]

well i haven't really seen a bard in goblin caves...or honestly much at all now that i think about it. if you ment barb probs not. they mostly have the base ax and its so easy to dodge with how slow he swings it

[lusty gazelle]

Can you make the Recovery key work?

[trail forge]

😂 first place bard is some jackwagon with like 9 kills who is trying to tell people he can maintain 100% song up time going toe to toe in melee combat

[hearty quest]

yeah, its unfurtanate it takes a bit to get used to and its unfinished, as well as mostly the bnards playing are p[laying as team buffers, but theres good playability solo if you turn off torches and mess with other people with youur songs lmao

[umbral valve]

Maybe he runs away and plays

[hearty quest]

lmao thats hilarious

[formal lake]

People use bard wrong I think. Go to middle of dungeon and use bosses to kill your enemies while you solo

[trail forge]

That's not staying in melee combat and the run speed penalty is too great @umbral valve he's just some dude who funneled gold for purple weapons to an alt and got carried and managed to steal a few kills

[trail forge]

Bosses aren't effected by Chaos charming

[elfin wadi]

I say we add a knight

[hearty quest]

even that i think is wrong since the songs dont work on bosses, if you play a little slow and turn off lights you can do pretty good and if you see other players, buff a little then rush in and you can get kills on any class decently easy

[granite plinth]

Please add in lobby FPS Limiter

[trail forge]

The problem with bard is everyone wants to talk a big game because the class is so poorly optimized that no one is in a position to be the jaygruffuh or whatever streamer neckbeard of the class

[elfin wadi]

wait a minute do you have to beat the dungeon to keep the loot?

[hazy wagon]

you can change it in the settings, even in game

[trail forge]

No one who has played the game for a day isn't going to hear that coming

[onyx lotus]

you have to escape through a portal, yes

[granite plinth]

It doesnt have a lobby specific FPS option

[elfin wadi]

ok thanks

[hearty quest]

the point is for them to hear you coming, the speed buff along with the damge perk to rapiers, and buff damage perk on songs, as well as a decent rapier gives pretty good dps and if you play in the dark you can doge easy

[trail forge]

D4RKKO and D4RKKER good luck in there buddy

[hazy wagon]

sounds like a rogue with extra steps

[elfin wadi]

I'll try

[trail forge]

Alright dude, you live your best life.

[hearty quest]

i guess bascically but i only play like that for pvp, i think while its a bit worse damage than rogue i enjoy the versatality the other songs have like the discord one for clearing mobs, as well as the magic blocking ability for easy wizard kills

[elfin sand]

so, effective ways to defeat a rouge with rapier ? as a fighter, even with sprint, they just walk out of weapon range

[trail forge]

It's a rogue with virtually no steps haha that's the real problem. They rat fine and are great at pve, but all these An Heroes pretending like they go full Rambo on bard to great effect aren't telling the truth or are facing exceedingly new/bad players.

Like I said, "1st place" bard had like 9 kills a couple hours ago from being carried

[hearty quest]

play bard and use the speed spell

[covert barn]

I feel like bard should get jokester

[elfin sand]

not gonna play a different class. i cant change class in middle of a fight

[hearty quest]

how are you mesuring "1ST" place, im confused

[trail forge]

It's fine. What he was really saying was "aggressively out gear them and hooe they are new" because thats the only way what he is suggesting works

[trail forge]

Top kills in HR Brother. With all due respect this is what I'm talking about: almost everyone claiming to represent the class is a case study in the Dunning Kruger effect

[regal tartan]

hey, someone can help me? i try to download the game but when i open he says to download the latest version of nvidia graphics but i already have this.. the name of error is: known issues with graphics driver

[hearty quest]

not at all i was just trying to recruit more bards, and also ive faught and won against similarly skilled players with base gear and won

[elfin sand]

one hand crossbow bolt with their passives put me at 40% hp

[trail forge]

Idk what to tell you. Go get world first in HR it's still probably low double digit killing blows

[hearty quest]

damn, then i dont care because im only talking about solo normal or goblin, i dont care aboput the geared runs

[trail forge]

The point is the class is really rough right now. Pretending like it's a skill issue on everyone else's part isn't going to help, and it sure isn't how rogues got all these crazy buffs

[hearty quest]

im not saying its a skill issue at all iw as just talking about how ive had success with the cllass

i would also like to add that i dont see anyway bard could be viable at high level yet because its clearly unfinished and you cant even get higher rarity lutes

[trail forge]

Context is key. You've had success in solo vs. the lowest common denominator. Any class can have succes running head first and swinging for the fences if they do it enough times against new and ungeared players

[wooden scaffold]

anyone think final circle kills to quick?

[trail forge]

This would be the point, yes. That's really all that matters if we're talking about the worst class in the game

[hearty quest]

sure if anyone who plays normal is "lowest common denomiter"

[trail forge]

Solo is lowest common denominator: its the mode that is going to have all skill levels where HR is not

[surreal trout]

a well placed trap is a guaranteed kill for a ranger though. they have plenty of agency in fights and can run from most classes if necessary

[junior owl]

NERF CROSSBOW SKELETONS

[hearty quest]

sure???, but thats you guessing that ive fought terrible playuers and ignoring anything ive said about playstyle while also only talking about high tiered gameplay

[untold jay]

merchants needs buffing, id rather spend 500 gold on goblin merchant every reset than trade with the goblins in trade chat

[trail forge]

It's why I'm pointing out that the strategy you are using isn't great

[hybrid jungle]

let the bard heal his team all the way, just make it slow

[tribal jewel]

How do I add a suggestion? I would suggest they not put taunts on the T key and not give you teh ability to unbind it so Whenever I try to use an ability I bound tot he T key it just tires to taunt

[umbral valve]

Have you seen the naked starter players in high rollers? Noobs.

[trail forge]

You have to be level 15 and spend 100g that's a different type of noob

[hearty quest]

to say "Any class can have succes running head first and swinging for the fences if they do it enough times against new and ungeared players" completley ignores everything ive said describing my playstyle, and assumes im fighting stupid people with no equipment, witch if youve ever played normal dungeon isnt true most of the time

[hybrid jungle]

let the bard heal his team all the way, just make it slow. That would make him a viable alternative to the cleric who can heal his team infinitely. Right now cleric is basically necessary in order to have a good comp. No-one else is necessary. Thats dumb, dont nerf cleric, buff bard

[hearty quest]

yeah, i think if you could take a perk that gives half the normal health recap as actual health would be good

[trail forge]

Bards already heal slow and they won't outheal the 70-100 dps upper levels can achieve in gear. They 100% should be able to heal the full health bar given clerics can now restore spells at will without camp fires

[hazy wagon]

personally I think it should only be blunt weapons

[hybrid jungle]

I think if bard could top off his team before a fight he would be much more viable. Plus with his weapons and agility he is much more useful in a fight damage wise. Cleric mostly buffs and heals during fights, bard could buff and heal before a fight and take a much more active role in killing

[hazy wagon]

just hit them with your lute like a real bard

[hearty quest]

yeah thats how i normally play in fights with the speed buff at the start as well allows teamates to catch the whiley rogues

[trail forge]

Real lutes are paper thin and will puncture if you look at them wrong. Just being my contrarian self of course

[fading imp]

Knockback ability with lute could be good utility

Also need way more time to develop the class. Needs more stuff in general and as an enabler class it will depend on how they allow them to build for different situations/roles/comps and stuff

More instruments could be good but it's hard to know. They don't have enough songs to be able to tell if they need different playing speeds or powers.

[umbral valve]

High roller Goblin Caves with 2nd floor and leaderboard.

[junior owl]

NERF MOB DAMAGE, SHOULD NOT BE 1/2 HP ON LITERALLY ANY CLASS FROM 1 HIT

[fallow arrow]

This game needs those quests, something to work towards more than loot and escape

[trail forge]

I agree with most of what you said, but more instruments seems like a waste of allocated resources at best, a crippling inventory tax at worst

[fading imp]

the quests will likely be loot and escape as well

[bold stratus]

WE NEED TO FIX THE PREIST!! literally did half my hp twice with a already good ability while at a rang instantly and can heal his teamate??? he was still good before this but this is just unfun to play with when you try to fight and randomly more then half your hp is gone

[hybrid jungle]

Dont nerft Cleric, buff Bard

[fallow arrow]

I like idea of randomizer lobbies where you get a random class and spells / perks

[wraith geode]

i think you should be able to collapse the Tavern Table voice calls seperate from the General text chat

[bold stratus]

have you seen howmuch damage he can do now? with just the press off q from a range?

[trail forge]

It's always done a ton of damage, the sound effect is just a lot more aggressive

[bold stratus]

its just annoying when it seems like its just a instant ranged attack that dose so much

[trail forge]

You can "dodge" it by turning and running away its pretty short range and clerics have to stand still to channel it. If you move out of range it still eats the cool down and you take no damage

[bold stratus]

the channel time was buffed so now its hard to even see when there doing it

[hearty quest]

because move fast always easy, actualy play the game before you keep saying stfff that dosent work or make sense

[trail forge]

It's always been a fast channel but if a cleric is going to do it they are going to be spamming it on you and standing still until you're in range for it to activate. Bait it just like any other attack

[elfin sand]

it doesnt go on cooldown when it fails to land. thats the problem

[bold stratus]

in a group fight it literally can insta kill the whole team

[trail forge]

I did it literally twice today. I'm sorry I have actual advice to offer lol

[trail forge]

I'm pretty sure that it still does, but if you are positive it doesn't you should do a bug report because it's always worked that way

[hearty quest]

as shown by both mesagges above yours your wrong, and your advice on bard playstyle was its bad unless your high geared

[elfin sand]

we're talking about judgement right? nah it doesnt go on cooldown

[trail forge]

Damn wth does this sentence even mean?

[pale plinth]

I really believe that bologna sandwiches being added to the game will be integral to it's future success.

[trail forge]

Judgement, yeah. I'll have to test it because I'm pretty sure it did when I was playing yesterday. If it doesn't then it's broken atm. It's always been "dodgeable"

[elfin sand]

nah, how do u think u find the hidden rouges? spam the key at corners until it casts

[hearty quest]

iit means that your "advice" had false information showing how you havent played, and that your other "advice" on the bard playstyle was useless to anyone and didnt reflect how games actualy go, further showing your lack of game experience for someone trying to tell others how the game works

[elfin sand]

i've purposefully stopped casting it, cos it was on friendly, not on cooldown .. EVER. it only goes on cooldown when it does damage to a target

[limber hollow]

Remove crossbow skeleton from the game

[trail forge]

No I'm not talking about pressing Q and it eating the cool down. I'm saying if the spell gets far along enough in the cast time and the target moves out of range it will still try to cast the spell and fail but eat the CD

[elfin sand]

fails to cast and no cooldown

[trail forge]

I have no idea what you're on about but party on dude

[lavish forge]

Please extend the play test

[limber hollow]

remove all the fuking mobs aiming 100% for the head

[calm scaffold]

increasing resourcefulness for cleric... it's painful right now

[trail forge]

I dont think that's right. Especially not in the context of you fishing for rogues with it, which idk how that would work since you have to stand still to use it

[hearty quest]

what??? i was talking about bard earlier and you started saying how its useless and anyone who says the ykill people with the class solo are liars

[trail forge]

Anyway, to whoever was struggling with judgment if you want actual advice: it's hard to bait but it's 100% doable just watch for them to stop moving and when their hands clasp in prayer rotate 180 degrees and run

[open haven]

why is every room 10x darker than last play test?

[charred zenith]

Because it was dark now it's darker

[umbral valve]

The dark grows darker

[hearty quest]

also after i countered all your points you left mid argument like your doing now

[trail forge]

The Dark grows Darker...

[elfin sand]

and it'll still be off cooldown when you go to approach them again

[trail forge]

Whelp even if this is correct, which I don't think it is, you just A) dodged judgement B) got a head start on kiting the slowest class in the game

[bold stratus]

this makes the fight boring and lets say your in teamm fight. great you can just bait a whole team back and get rushed. or lets say your in each others face. BOOM THERE GOES HALF OF THE WHOLE TEAMS HP BY STANDING STILL. it is just boring to play against and you get nothing to lose by doing it cause there FORCED TO RUN AWAY

[hot sundial]

Nah, if the target goes out of range before the cast is finished Judgement fails and goes on cool down, had it happen a bunch of times.

[rocky copper]

Facts

[trail forge]

This guy knows what's up

[hearty quest]

lmao, but the entire point of the "advice" about judgment was that you can bait the cooldown

[trail forge]

Someone else just confirmed I'm right. I've played this class every play test. You can be mad at legitimate advice I'm not gonna tell you how to live your life

[bold stratus]

Eaither way it’s just a win win situation for the perosn using judgment. There eaither 1)Forced to run away and lose a whole encounter or b) lose half your Hp and if your in a team fight seeing a pope clasp his hands behind two other people fighting , being forced to turn around which gets you killed or stay in the fight while will get you killed is just broken. It’s a win win situation on a already amazing cherecter

[trail forge]

They took down the suggestion channel. This place is just a Dunning-Krugger riddled cesspit with the occasional bits of actual advice on how to deal with what people thinks needs to be nerfed

[hearty quest]

you have not given a single piece of legitamite advice, and theres no actual confirmation on the judgment thing, now two people think the cooldown can be baited, and two dont, but even then what about the bard "advice" you were giving, you kinda just left the convcersation as soon as i countered a few points?????

[trail forge]

Exhibit A

[queen quail]

i suggest we revert rangers to last play test

[bold stratus]

Esither way fighting it is really annoying especially in team fights. It can be just playing and baiting around a cleric behind two other people. It just sucks to fight

[trail forge]

P R E A C H

[hearty quest]

???

[hot sundial]

No, I'm specifically telling you I've seen a message pop up several times while playing cleric at the end of a judgement cast, "target is out of range" the spell does not fire and goes on cool down. The range is pretty tight too, so once people figure it out, it will be an issue

[delicate lichen]

They should add a closet/ armor mannequin so you can cycle between two kits with the click of a button.

[trail forge]

Yeah its always been like this 100% baitable and blows the CD

[hearty quest]

sure?? like i said now theres you and bard main saying it does and me and whoever else was hear earlier saying it dosent, but that isnt even the main point, im just trying to get an answer from bard main because he left the bard conversation we were having earlier after i contered his point

[trail forge]

Idk what your point even is but Hammer and I are right so either use that information or don't

[delicate oasis]

WTB KUMA'S FANG WTB KUMA'S FANG WTB KUMA'S FANG WTB KUMA'S FANG WTB KUMA'S FANG WTB KUMA'S FANG WTB KUMA'S FANG WTB KUMA'S FANG WTB KUMA'S FANG WTB KUMA'S FANG

[trail forge]

How much?

[hearty quest]

Ok?? sure, but what about the bard thing, whyed you just leave after i countered you saying that the only way i get kills solo is running in and swinging randomley, and then getting mad at me for countering your points by saying "I'm just trying to give advice"

[trail forge]

I mean that was your advice was just blasting speed song to telegraph yourself running in solo and I pointed out that's only going to work against new and under geared players. It's also a bad representation of the current health of the class. Idk what else to say. Sorry that isn't a strat that's going to work in competitive levels of play?

[hearty quest]

what do you mean?? i was talking about a solo playstyle using rougue tactics and then using the songs to buff yourself, and confuse your enemies at the same time before taking advantage of perks, and the song buff to get kills on enemies

[sterile lily]

Bard is weak, needs adjustments to be viable, even in best case scenerio he is just fine. Not great. Many classes are great at some things, bard is mediocre at most of the stuff he can do. Plz gib him some lovem

[trail forge]

I can't really wrap my head around what most of this means or if its even the same game. But you give it as advice to new bards if you that's the life you wanna lead bro

[hearty quest]

also for the health of the class i was also saying its unfinished and needs a buff as well as also saying it isnt very viable in high level at the moment due to the unfinished nature

[trail forge]

Bard in about 90%+ of combat boils down to "do you know how to play a melee dps without an ability kit" because performing songs is usually not worth the risk versus competent players when you aren't being hard carried by other people

[opal totem]

Devs please release as is and charge $100/month to weed out the poor's and nerds. We will properly test and give feedback

[trail forge]

Lmfao

[opal totem]

I'm serious

[trail forge]

I believe you it just made me laugh

[hearty quest]

the speed buff is pretty decent and if you only want a buff class you should go cleric, and i believe bard is supposed to be a midway between cleric and rogue allowing for less buffinmg skills bbut more damgae/ mobilityu

[trail forge]

Damn that's crazy 😎

[hearty quest]

plus your "kit" ios the speed buff

[trail forge]

Cool man start a vlog or YouTube channel with your tips you got this brother

[fleet lily]

Okay so heres my game suggestions.

Halfling - smaller player model. Can only use daggers and short swords. Do less damage like maybe 75% damage bc they smaller. They are slower depending on weight. Can only wear cloth/leather because "armor is not smithed at half size"

They have "2 bags" the normal unseen bag and then the travellers pack. The pack can be dropped to lose weight and move faster. Bag can also be thrown at people to do damage based on how heavy.

Maybe even add some "halfling holes" that only they can get loot in because of size.

They loot faster. Maybe they can see approximate price on loot?? Maybe they are so efficient at looting all the 2x2 trinkets can be "stuffed into a 1x1 spot"?? Thoughts?

[trail forge]

They can never make a character model with a different hit box - especially a shorter one - that's way too large an advantage

[sterile lily]

Seen some crazy playes with disarm and some pushes into mages with the silence, but that was his best case scenario and even in these it felt like other classes could deal with situation differently, but prolly less risky as well. I think that even givin him half like 50% song buff woldn't make him meta. Cuz the kit is just weird. Prolly would work very decent with the 50% buff in like wizard rogue bard comps, but his class identity is just not there. As u said,(if i can quote it atleast semi-right): I also feel like he is just a rapier user without dmg/utility perks or skills.

[trail forge]

Terrance actually talked about this in an interview where he got "in trouble" for saying they would consider it because SBF was like "bro how are we going to do that and keep it balanced?"

[hearty quest]

again i would liklle to mention that the class is clearly unfinished and any conversdation has to based off that

[sterile lily]

We can only comment on a stuff that's already in game. If it's not, we can only speculate about the outcome.

[trail forge]

Yeah I agree with the sentiment for sure. The class needs more survivability and ideally something skill based to make it more competent in melee combat. I'd love to see a perry system or a buckler and less movement penalty when performing

[fleet lily]

Is it really an advantage though if they deal less damage. Less damage resist. And less health?

[trail forge]

Youre essentially talking about being permanently crouched with no movement penalty. Vertically is a huge part of dodging in this game

But like this isn't really my opinion this is from the devs. It's a good interview from before play test 4 I think

[hearty quest]

I think with the way the class system emphasizes the disadvantages and advantages classes offer and its interaction in game a race with size as a advantage or disadvantage along with corresponding advantages/ disadvantages it would work well and coul create amazing gameplay. Also for small characters the ymove slower because they have shorter legs??

[fleet lily]

But what im saying is - they will be below adequate in every other aspect of pvp combat. "Vertical Evasiveness" is not out of the question.

[ember prism]

I'm late to party. Judgament can be baited. When someone leaves the range when the cleric is using the skill it will enter CD.

[sterile lily]

I also thought about the idea of different character models, but I just don't think addin more stuff to balance out(almost never happens with the models) is just wrong. (Also the hitboxes registration goes big off, lets be real, hit reg isnt even great atm, imagine if we had different models xD)

[fleet lily]

Yeah so my thoughts are they move slower simply because of gait. But also because they cannot handle the sheer weight of the loot.

[timber reef]

https://tenor.com/view/ccc-ccc7-mordhau-patchie-7ccc7-gif-18399840

[elfin wadi]

Extend

[trail forge]

My man

[hearty quest]

and further it would be interesting to see rogue use the rogue advantages to cancel disadvantages, or doubling down with cleric and the nstacking the buffs with the size advantage

[fleet lily]

I was considering the halfling a class instead of a race. A loot goblin basically. To accumulate loot and potentially be a staple in those greedy parties that we all have been a part of

[trail forge]

😂

[ember prism]

It's like the most basic thing about the spell but man. I don't judge I just answer. Btw I don't encourage going YOLO as a bard with movement speed song. You will probably get obliterated by another class if you have the same gear rarity.

You can use your songs when you got some free uptime. But the damage increase they bring are easily ignored. You would do more damage with a bow hitting some arrows.

[trail forge]

I'd like to introduce you to bard

[rigid mulch]

solo bards should be able to ride a skateboard

[trail forge]

Man you just do not miss: you are correct again

[trail forge]

[hearty quest]

thats pretty interesting as well, but i would love to see both halfling and giant races that come with unique advantages or disadvantages that can stack with class mechanics to create unique builds, like an invisible giant that does massive backstab dmage bewcause it has strength with rogue ablities, but lacking manueverability

[mild lion]

Would love to see one more melee perk for the ranger, spear ranger feels great and its on brand fantasy wise

[vital raft]

HUUUGE problem with how little of portals there is on the goblin dungeon, yet any other map now has a buffed amount and its a for sure to find one

[ember prism]

Yeah I wish they could go full forward with a rugby ball with a giant speaker blasting barby girl from aqua and charming every mob on the dungeon. I don't know if it would fit the character identity, tho.

[trail forge]

Yeah if they want bows to be a chore they really should

[rigid mulch]

they had wheels and boards back in medeival times, its possible

[valid ferry]

Does crossbow mastery increase the reload speed of the windlass?

[trail forge]

Is this a B plot in one of the Bill and Tedd movies?

[fleet lily]

I would consider bard a true support. The halfling idea i proposed would be a support but not really generate any buffs for the party. Just gainz

[ember prism]

If the windlass is the comically slow crossbow. Yeah it does.

[trail forge]

Bard as it is isn't truly anything

[rigid mulch]

okay scratch the skateboard but bard should have a song that puts out all the lights in x radius

[ember prism]

It's a true mess. Lol.

[fleet lily]

Yeah my bad idk what else to call something that gives buffs, debuffs, and CC with mild/moderate dps and squishy.

[ember prism]

Bard should have a song that generates an illusion where all the mobs are disguised as red crossbow skeletons. It's just a visual effect tho, the mobs would move and disable their illusion after they interact with you or you interact with them.

[sterile lily]

That's straight up evil.

[trail forge]

I mean, it's sort of like calling barbarian support because it has shouts, but we don't because barbarian actually has survivability and A tier dps.

You just call bard support because it's bad

[rigid mulch]

i like this, and/or makes fake, hologram enemies

[trail forge]

Same with wizard. Haste and invis are both S tier

[hazy wagon]

bard also required skill checks for some weird reason, which seems like a straight nerf

[ember prism]

I'm a bard player. I've gathered all the resentment and hate of the meta players these last days and I reforged them onto the most gruesome song 🥰🥰🤪🤪

[trail forge]

I support you and your endeavors

[sterile lily]

I support you and your endeavors

[fleet lily]

I call it support because it is what it is. It has endless buffs and debuffs while mid dps and like 0 tank.

[sterile lily]

^ Rogue is a support, he has lockpicking 😭

[ember prism]

Not gonna lie, as a bard If I didn't have those checks I would have fallen asleep like third times on a row on my morning runs.

I could agree about disabling the skill checks of the songs if they add some family guy footage just below the song charging bar. I've to entertain my brain on some way or another.

[fleet lily]

I would very much argue that rogue can be played as an "environmental support" disables and reveals traps. Quick interaction. No lockpicks. Vision obstruction

[trail forge]

This is a really good point. Yes, it's fun to play Discount Guitar Hero (I give them credit for making it so you can actually perfectly execute songs just by listening) but it's wild the only "spells" with a skill check are the weakest for the most hectic game play: pvp

[rigid mulch]

i want to play my bard using my old rockband guitar controller

[ember prism]

I honestly don't know why we cannot disarm the traps we've already spot. I'm so tired of crouching when there's some nasty spike trap on the wall.

[jovial copper]

nerf cleric ty

[sterile lily]

My msg should never had sarcastic tone, Im completly aware of his abilities as this type of support, if ppl wish to play it, go ahead, it's just that he is just better played as other role, or roles.

[trail forge]

People don't want to hear this but bard is traditionally, in all previous media this game is drawing inspiration from, a rogue/caster hybrid. They can always disarm traps and pick locks and should be allowed to in this game as well.

What Naruto rogue main is taking those abilities anyway

[shut crane]

The peace song should be a cone shaped AoE

[rigid mulch]

and it should make players in cone drop weapons on floor

[sterile lily]

Evil

[fleet lily]

Exactly. Thats why bard is a true support. There is just simply no other niche he fits. At all really.

[sterile lily]

Yup, unforchunately.🕊

[ember prism]

I'm a RO enjoyer. For me bard should be playing 85% of the time I don't know what to think about its state now. Music is cool and failing the guitar hero minigame yields funny noises so I'm fine with the class. I'm a simple man.

[shut crane]

@rigid mulch that sounds OP maybe like makes them put whatever weapons their holding away

[trail forge]

It honestly should be taken out of the game for something more universally useful. It seems like the devs think its way more powerful than it is because wizards are the most played class (lol) and they are power houses in starter kits (lmao) and can abuse bard duos for peacemaking

[rigid mulch]

true it would be too easy to steal, in backpack would be pretty powerful already

[ember prism]

Peace songs usage is detrimental. You are action-locked and your foes can just use their utility or chug some potions. The niche where the song is actually good for you is a non realistic case.

[sterile lily]

Just give wizards spellbook starter item so they dont have to spend 11g for them to be like x times stronger than with a staff xd

[trail forge]

Unionically the buff it needs considering too how they keep dumpstering wizard starting stats because they don't know how to balance its gear scaling

[sterile lily]

There goes the gear scaling issue again, or gear in general being an issue.

[ember prism]

I guess you could peace song and let someone open a door, open a portal. I don't know. Bard class is just a mess with 4 spell songs and 5 perks. I hope they can continue developing the game so we will be able to see how the class evolves.

[rigid mulch]

agreed it feels like just a shell rn

[trail forge]

Exactly, but I have a really strong suspicion they thought it was going to be some massive game changer and were afraid to let bard do anything else of consequence because of it. Like think about how tranquility healing is hard capped but this is test they also started off with clerics being able to have a free campfire with no CD on demand?

[alpine crown]

Suggestion: Add slot filter in trade.

[ember prism]

Being completely honest I think they rushed the bard as a gift for the community. It needs a lot of work. I don't like the rest mechanic on the cleric, bard were supposed to counter the cleric need in a party and that buff is just a straight buff to the cleric players.

[rigid mulch]

gotta start somewhere i guess... i'm surprised there aren't a few more bard tricks available tho, even if they're mostly fluff and niche usage

[trail forge]

Youre right. I really hope they just make it so bards can heal to full, because tranquility is never going to have the same aggressive heal throughput as a cleric spamming shields and heals. This is my cleric in a whatever 2v3 from last play test. A bard isn't pulling this off, even without the tranquility hard cap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63M2h1L01vQ

[ember prism]

Plus the songs don't really fit the role they're supposed to fill on the party. The two CC song are counter intuitive. The another two are just a mess.

Why should I use the speed song when my partners will leave me behind because I've such an huge speed penalty while playing?

And I would like to talk about the perks or the songs but this is not bard channel sadly.

[shut crane]

@ember prism let's make it a bard channel 😏

[rigid mulch]

yeah speed buff needs extra self-buff effect

[trail forge]

This man bards

[trail forge]

They need to make it so if you clutch the first 2-3 notes it pops instantly, to begin with

[ember prism]

That's amazing. I've also cheated some fights with sanctuary, cleric healing output is just amazing. You can bring a lot of utility when you're not on a good position to frontline.

Best bard can do when you got free uptime? Yeah you could spam tranquility and accelerando to boost your party members... Your best move? Just taking some bow crossbow and hitting that arrows, lmao.

[shut crane]

@rigid mulch wouldn't this incentives players to get debuffs items?

[ember prism]

What do you mean wire, Im not following you.

[rigid mulch]

not sure i follow, maybe, pls elaborate

[shut crane]

It was mentioned that using the speed song is good until you realize there's a song playing speed tax. Could this speed tax be softened or solved with debuff reduction items?

[umbral valve]

High roller goblin caves with 2nd floor and leaderboard.

[ember prism]

Bard is on a pretty weird position because most of the songs durartion wheter it's a buff or a debuff are limited to the song time. So there's not a lot of stats that really beneffits bards.

[trail forge]

Yeah they are going to bave to get creative to make bard a viable support replacement for cleric or wizard. It's interesting to point out the devs had said before wizard is a support class and that a more caster dps class is likely in the future. You can glean from that that haste, invis, Ignite and slow are all weak(?) Enough for then to still do insane damage with other spells.

Idk how they square that with bard without them doing wizard dps or substantially better support

[ember prism]

It's a % debuff built onto the song mechanic. It's not technically a debuff.

[shut crane]

Oh lame

[gray ridge]

double jump is super lame and breaks the map to me

[rigid mulch]

i imagine they will have other instruments eventually, maybe some that reduce this movement debuff at cost of range or duration etc.

[ember prism]

You better don't test the ruins, then. Rogues are everywhere!

[shut crane]

I was lucky enough to get 3 items with buff duration so I was zooming lmao

[bold stratus]

but it makes the map so much more fun to play with and makes the rouge more dynamic. PLUS THE MAP IS BROKEN EVEN WITHOUT DOUBLE JUMP LOL

[timber pebble]

ruins is like a rogue playground, you literally can't kill them either in there

[river sentinel]

I feel like some changes need to happen to the magic staff, spell book, and crystal ball, it feels like crystal ball is useless and people all around just prefer the spellbook

[strong needle]

I decided to try and do a mining session with a new fighter and the conversion rates are terrible and the mining time leaves you open to other player ganks especially given the noise it makes. This is a miner (pun intended) portion of the game, but can we get a better ore conversion rate for bar/dyes or a shorter mining timer if not both :p

[tulip galleon]

yeah the added movement options for rogue gives the class so much more depth devs just need time to balance it and maps around it

[hidden goblet]

You never met a wizard with a rondel and ignite?

[umbral valve]

I ignore the new map for 1 reason: rogues climbing terrain with double jump

[ember prism]

With the new hand crossbows!! 🥰🥰

[timber pebble]

there was one on a tall pillar just sniping people with handbows, it was hella annoying

[shut crane]

The only pro with the crystal ball is that you can hold a knife with it

[ember prism]

Haste ignite melt build can be actually ok

[fleet heron]

i belive that the "cheak your loadount" mesage should be turned off untill you have ended a run/ have something non default in your setup

[lofty temple]

poison OP in cave we dont need to do ANY miss uU losing gear 500g in 2hit. in others map hr or not we can tank 10 hit with any prob

[unreal cloak]

FREE GOLDEN KEY GIVEAWAY Follow @unreal cloak On twitch and Youtube for 2 Free Entries to win the GOLDEN Key\ Ends in 30 Minutes

[timber pebble]

bad argument, it's a mobility that no other class has make it frustrating to play again

[trail forge]

Rogue does too much true damage with zero gear for how mobile it is. Zero risk, all reward

[somber wind]

I cant believe the double jump thing hasn't been quashed yet It is NOT a mechanic issue it IS a map issue. The map is not balanced for it yet, sectioning off areas and designing areas ment to be for Rogues only but also not having them be insanely overpowered by giving access to the entire map is the way that it needs to be done.

If the map was literally a 3x3 of rooms like a hash # then you should only have access to walking across 2-3 walls on the hash at any time and not the entire thing.

[timber pebble]

they can literally do insane kiting what is this copium

[bold stratus]

but so many classes counter rouge. Its really not hard to one hit them if you push them as any class you can almost one hit them as cleric , fight , barb , wizzards zap can even do a shit tone

[bold stratus]

thats the whole point of the class is to learn kiting and to get small jabs off and get the poisn dammage or bleed. THATS WHAT MAKES THE CLASS FUN LOL plus rouge needs this to also kite out just normal npcs. If you hit a rouge once there already almost half hp.

[remote pawn]

why is everyone so against more skill-based mechanics in melee combat? all the suggestions that recommend changes to make combat more interesting have gotten absolutely shit on

[bold stratus]

IKR ilove the new rouge double jump. PERSONALLY i think more mobility should be added or other classes to!! i think the new mobility is just a learnign curve. PEOPLE THINK ITS BROKEN but have they even tried to use it? I know fighting it can be irrating but if you play the class you know one hit and your bassically done

[bold stratus]

so dose wizzard lol. Theres not many rouge or wizzard items so they more powerful with base stats. While fighter has alot of things they can equip and add and be better. This goes for cleric or barb to (less bard , bard needs a buff) or even hunter! Even the new class is amazingly powerful with no gear

[rocky stream]

Too many bugs this playtest >.<

[trail forge]

Man this is too egregious to even take the time to respond to.

[timber pebble]

guess you're a wizard teleport spell supporter? or double standards

[worldly elk]

Fighter Charge?

[austere obsidian]

Make mob health lower overall. As a fast circle and tanky mobs don't mix.

[timber pebble]

these "make game easier" suggestions always get clowned on

[trail forge]

Game is fun because movement is slow. It's going to devolve into just a subpar apex/fortnite lol

[austere obsidian]

The mobs aren't hard. Making them take 3 headshots to kill instead of 5 would just make map flow better in my opinion.

[peak rock]

I don't mind the double jump just the map itself. Maybe have the top of the map also accesible and add more ranged options to other classes. Unless i bring more throwing weapons I usually have to ignore them lmao

[willow thunder]

But then how do I kite 20 mummies at you

[rare juniper]

please add lantern to merchant

[turbid epoch]

this playtest feels much worse than the last one. class imbalance feels much worse, rogues being the worst of it all (a rogue should not be able to trade blows with two fighters in plate gear and win, literally one hit to one). the class diversity is also gone, i havent seen more than one or two wizards and i've been playing since the first hour of the test. overall I just haven't enjoyed this playtest whereas the ones previous were one of my favorite games in a decade. whatever they did here did NOT work for me and my friends.

[bold stratus]

What are yoy talking about lol . Rouge is so squishy if you were to trade hits one on one any class would win

[slim nacelle]

Movement speed buff for bard or at least a buff to the speed buff song making it 36 seconds over 6 seconds so the buff actually helps

[raven jetty]

I'm not sure where to put suggestions, but here seems most relevant: the game really REALLY needs a separate dungeon for new characters and players. It feels really terrible to go into a dungeon on a barbarian and get 1shot by every single player in the chest because they have a bunch of purples on.

While gear is definitely a key part of the game, there NEEDS to be a way for naked players to get gear without the only thing keeping them alive being the random chance you don't run into someone with gear. The game is supposed to be partially about skill, yet there's nothing skillful about a naked rogue with 2 purple rings, 2 purple daggers, and a purple necklace charging at you from around a corner and hitting you once in the chest. Same with a fighter in full blues and purples sprint-spelling around a corner and, again, hitting you once in the chest and killing you. The further into the playtest we get, the worse this problem will get. This applies even more to the game at release.

Tarkov handles this issue by letting players go in as scavs, if a no-armor dungeon isn't an option, maybe a "mercenary" system could solve the same goal?

[gleaming kestrel]

Buff bard, give them different instruments with stronger songs

[fierce cradle]

well that would be the problem, you cant trade hits with any rogue with 1/8 brain. Hold W and win. Parkour ruins wait for a team, pretty simple. "iTs A sKiLl iSsUe"

[bold stratus]

Run them down or use anything to counter

[raven jetty]

you literally can't run down a rogue, they have too much move speed. The only classes that can are wizards, fighters or other rogues, other classes just die

[trail forge]

Don't listen DogDef, dude will die on the hill that rogue is perfectly balanced and everyone else is the problem

[rapid furnace]

They should add dismemberment to player models.

[fierce cradle]

ya its clearly a blatant issue, devs can see that. Rogue pop compared to other classes in each lobby gives that away, just by each lobby is at least half rogues. Everyone knows it at this point... "I mean I just like rogue play style of 5 hits in 0.5 sec with insane run speed & double jump, its not a cheese to get where no other classes can"

[rapid furnace]

hey at least you can overcharge dumb rogues in trade chat for equipment

[peak rock]

what do you think of giving other classes more options to deal with them instead of nerfing them

[trail forge]

Kids want it to be a ninja, not a rogue. They should release the stats on which skills get taken. I bet not a single one of them are taking actual "rogue" talents like it's all Naruto mobility and dps

[trail forge]

I think this game's uniquely slow movement and combat is what made play test 3 the most fun. It's going in the wrong direction atm

[peak rock]

So far ive been having a good time with throwing weapons against them but lately either id have to fill half my inventory with them or stick to ignoring any rogues

[lavish palm]

Which is ESPECIALLY telling because they have the most bloated kit in the game like omf. They have SO MANY PERKS AND SKILLS! Let someone else get some attention for once like wtf.

[trail forge]

Give bards picklock and disarm trap. Anyone who disagrees doesn't understand what a bard is in this context

[lavish palm]

I am disagreeing cuz I don't understand what a bard is in this context :]

[peak rock]

I feel like rogue can be an exception without taking away from that. Being fast makes sense for them but being constantly in range of a safe space seems kind of much

[trail forge]

You've never done anything wrong and I love you

[gray ridge]

100% agreed

[fierce cradle]

I'm really not sure what you'd do. Double jump is an obvious issue, what are you going to do, give every class double jump and then still die in half a second bc you cant move on top of a ruin?

[lavish palm]

They added double jump AND roll TO THE SAME CLASS IN A SINGLE PATCH! Like omf! LET OTHER CHARACTERS HAVE FUN SHIT!!

[gray ridge]

other alpha felt like an hardcore game, this time it feels like a wanna be fortnite with kids bhopping everywhere lol

[peak rock]

More ranged options for classes or things like reliable slows. Ranger seems kind of weak this playtest and I feel like they could be the bane of ruin hopping rogues if bufed correctly

[trail forge]

That's the future we have to look forward to

[jovial copper]

nerf cleric

[sweet tendon]

Remove spiders and wall spikes, they are stupid

[lavish palm]

Weeping. I like the idea of movement capabilities, and make some things more noob friendly, but holy moly I don't want this to be a fast paced murder fest like every other game.

[lavish palm]

Just look at the wall, lol. I promise after awhile you start noticing where they spawn and just crouch preemptively.

[lavish palm]

Also

[peak rock]

Or maybe nerf their damage so you have more chances to 1shot them when they get close and dissuade too many attempt for a kill on you. force them to be methodical about it

[fierce cradle]

ya id start with a damage nerf, make double jump a skill, not a perk if they want to keep it around. Attack speed is fine, its a rogue theyre supposed to be fast attacking, but atm fast attacks = 2 shot feeling in .5 sec imo

[fierce cradle]

Right that's how a rogue should work. Not a faster version of barb with speed and stealth lol

[peak rock]

Damage nerf seems like a smart place to start. If it's still ridiculous then a CD on double jump? turning it into a skill makes sense too forcing them to drop Stealth or the bleed skill

[barren basin]

remove crossbow archers, or nerf dmg-- jesus christ

[feral flint]

we should be able to find dog treats in the dungeon and then feed them to otto if we extract. just sayin if the dog is gonna let me pet him he should atleast get a treat ngl.

[barren basin]

pretty much have to skip rooms

[pine ermine]

Hey.

So a quick thought for some new weapons to give some movement shenanigan options to classes that don't typically get them.

Nets, like gladiatorial nets. It would be an offhand equipped weapon that would be thrown. It could render the target immobile and unable to attack for a short period, like 2-3 seconds.

Bolas. Could be equipped like throwing knives and fransican axes, but only as a single stack. They could slow enemy movement for a short period, like 3-5 seconds.

Hopefully this sounds cool!

[peak rock]

I'd say have them start battle with an unloaded bow so you hear thema and actually have time to react

[inland forge]

remove double jump please its so unfun to play against

[robust sequoia]

Could give rogues fall damage so they have to be intelligent with how they get down from the top of the map

[fierce cradle]

Yea there's a couple different ways of doing it. But I'm thinking damage nerfs are going to be so hard to balance, with all the numerous stats/bonuses in the game, it'll be balancing nightmare. imo condense down stats/bonus to maybe like 6-7 instead of 18-22 or w/e

[peak rock]

Hopefully next playtest won't be torrented so they can hotfix easily and test things like this more often.

[cunning tendon]

give the bard a hurdy gurdy

[crimson ermine]

Traps are shown on you're minimap

[violet rampart]

give bard bongos

[crimson ermine]

And bolas

[untold egret]

Idk how to add suggestions, but I suggest you make a pop up to tell and don't let people in the trade hall unless they have at least 15 gold

[fierce cradle]

ya no fault to them, that's why they have play test's and under the circumstances with pending lawsuits, not a bad test

[lavish palm]

Random idea I'm about to pull straight outta my bum-

Song for bard to make debuffs either cleanse or go away faster? Maybe more like it gives you a status effect that does that instead? That way you don't need to constantly spam that song, lol.

[clear plinth]

I say we petition to have the rogue removed

[empty heart]

yeah really not gonna touch another playtest, horrendous, losing gear worth in the hundreds, to thousands, client works 40% of the time at best, alpha or not, this is super rough for people to be testing, think yall really need to put some more work in, new team, better team, more funding, idk, but yall are slipping HARD with this last disgrace, not even close to a ready product, because its not even ready to play test. and for those alpha simps that chalk it up to "ITS N ALPHA WHAT DO U EXPECT" thats right, it is an alpha, meaning people should be playing it and giving feedback, cant give feedback to a game that doesnt work. later ironmace, GGs

[clear plinth]

I have been emotionally abused by the Rogue class. My life will never be the same after the trauma that I have experienced, and I fear that I may suffer from PTSD as a result.

[lavish palm]

Okay well put your rant somewhere where it'll be read, lol. Seriously why do people keep putting these in here? This is suggestions. Go say it general where more will see it. Or in bugs!

Mean :[

[empty heart]

sorry, so the douche bag knows who i am talking to, get aids, and rot

[lavish palm]

I felt it was pretty obvious who you were talking to, lol

[peak rock]

This is probably why most games don't have public alpha tests. not many players are used to a game in the alpha state and just complain

[robust sequoia]

Wizard Weapon Balance

Buff wizard crystal ball to have -15 move speed at least, so that its comparable to spellbook solo (-10 ms), but still has the ability add knife to ultimately be slower than staff dual wielding. That way crystal ball could be used as a side grade to book.

[sweet tendon]

Ur mom's icon blocks the entire map

[clear plinth]

It is important for Dark and Darker to consider the inclusion of transgender characters to create a more welcoming and inclusive environment for all players.

[severe turtle]

Be nice to have keybinds for each utility slot in the future

[lavish palm]

How... would that work with gender change option?

[sweet tendon]

We just make special versions

[umbral valve]

<@&988703997378584596>

[vivid warren]

option to remove this bad looking crosshair for hunter or all classes i already can play without plz its so simple and no effort to do it @dawn grotto

[eager crescent]

i dont think it matters as you can just be what you identify as

[vivid warren]

i'd quit if this happens lol

[idle crypt]

Wizard is unplayable

[eager crescent]

same its not that deep

[eager crescent]

id also argue this ruins the aspect of the character u make is final so just make it the way u want

[umbral valve]

High roller Goblin Caves with leaderboard and consider a 2nd floor.

[vivid warren]

when game released please decrease xp given by mobs but the elite ones is good ( i already done leveling 2-3 levels per game

[lavish palm]

Thanks! I couldn't @ them, lol.

[vivid warren]

Can 1 of the head team confirm that all suggestions is read or will be read, so cause i willing to put alot of effort to give fast and honest feedbacks + good suggestion from pvp pov mostly

[lavish palm]

I highly doubt they read all this, lol.

[uncut trout]

Right so since High Roller doesnt have that many players, matches tend to only have like 3 or 5 players in it, so it wont fill up to 18 most of the time, causing a 3 minutes wait, i suggest High Roller lobby time should be reduced to like 1 minutes so we wont have to wait as long

[brave heron]

So, how do I submit a suggestion? 😦 I have two

[vivid warren]

please let me know

[inland bloom]

they need to add some invis barriers to the ruins maps because rogues can double jump ontop of the whole map with mini crossbows

[vivid warren]

are you sure of this man, cause me and my mates tried to go as 2 wizards 1 bard and we never lost a pvp fight since then

mage is goodly in both pve and pvp, plus im not trying to be toxic at all but have you thought of some skill issues you have?

[static gazelle]

Judgment needs to take longer to cast, the amount of damage that does vs how fast it can be used, they can turn a fight that they are losing by pressing one button

[gilded plume]

getting one tapped by a skeleton crossbowman feels pretty bad.

[vivid warren]

super dubber easy to dodge both bow and crossbow skellies

[static gazelle]

Cross bow yes, I have had Bow skellies hit me when facing away from me, (aka I was on their back)

[quick glacier]

But so fun to play with

[vivid warren]

what i usually do when crossy aim at me. after something like 0.5 sec he shot in that time i crouch and look down, 100% guaranteed the bolt will go above ur head

[hollow sparrow]

when playtest over

[gilded plume]

Whether you are able to dodge or see it coming doesn't change the fact, getting one tapped by an npc feels bad any way you cut it.

[patent pond]

it would be nice to see rogues get some love outside of double jump, considering they have some of the most useless skills in the entire game

[vivid warren]

its a hardcore game in the end my friend. You can run barbar or fighter to prevent this one shot

[patent pond]

"its a hardcore game, which is why anything but barb and fighter arent viable because everything else gets 1 tapped" what an awful take.

[vivid warren]

wdym weakside destroys tanks and stealth already has no sound

[patent pond]

stealth has sound, leaves a silhoutte, and limits you to 10 steps, and thats only with a perk and skill combo my guy

[vivid warren]

its not same as stealth pots

[patent pond]

the only difference between hide and invis pots is that it works with the stealth perk to give you 10 steps

[gilded plume]

can you name any other basic npc (not bosses obvs) that can one tap ANY class?

[patent pond]

no npc should be able to 1 shot any class

[vivid warren]

btw i thought of double jump, either they add a rechargeable cd on that passive like for example you can have 3 double jumps at start and when ever you start your first D-jump the cd starts to recharge you get me ?

[patent pond]

the problem with nerfing double jump is that its literally the ONLY thing rogues have going for them atm. and its not even that effective in combat because you also cant hit the enemy while double jumping

[vivid warren]

i struggle runing after a rouge as a melee

he can run 4-5 times further than when i chase other class

[patent pond]

you should try running after a wizard, they can literally do the same thing rogues can but better

[vivid warren]

so far i think barbar is most balanced class

you easy punish him if he missed a swing

[patent pond]

nah, fighter is pretty balanced. barbs can still 1 tap fairly easily

[inland bloom]

The only thing making the rogues double jump balanced is that there is a roof. Go to the ruins map and there are rogues everywhere shooting you from the top of the walls till you are low enough to assassins' creed jump on you.

[ashen oak]

^

[patent pond]

yeah, but that could be fixed by them just making the ruins map not so easily parkourable

[ashen oak]

by adding invis barriers

[patent pond]

or just adjusting the layout to prevent it

[inland bloom]

^ yeah im trying to talk about it more cuz i died to spec and i see 4 rats ontop the wall

[ashen oak]

adjusting the layout is pretty plausible

but i think barrier would be better

[barren pollen]

not sure if it's been suggested but I think it would be pretty nice to choose your default loadout gear, specifically the weapons, chest and pants, obviously using the weakest version of the type

[patent pond]

well if you see 4 of anything banding together to kill you, youre dead.

[inland bloom]

oh no they were not banding together thats just how much its happening on the ruins map

[patent pond]

i know, im saying if 4 people are choosing to target you, rogues or not, youre dead. if it was just 1 you would be fine

[ashen oak]

^

[patent pond]

im saying i think it would be really bad if they nerfed double jump, because if they do rogues will be the worst class again

they can prevent people parkouring all over the map without nerfing the ability itself

[inland bloom]

never said nerf jump, I suggested to add barriers on the ruins map.

[patent pond]

i didnt mean that you were, but a majority of the community is asking for it to be nerfed

[thorny verge]

can they add sex???!?!?!!?!?!?!?!

[hollow root]

Add Back step?

[patent pond]

tumble already exists, and its literally useless

[quartz juniper]

fax

[hollow root]

damn

[patent pond]

yeah, tumble is legitimately less effective than just walking or jumping

[ashen oak]

what about bard suggestions

[patent pond]

bard really just needs more effective solo songs

[calm bay]

portals are pretty common in the ruins should be the base spawn rate in all maps

[patent pond]

fax

[upper sonnet]

Bard just needs more songs that do more. Maybe something they can do solo like how Cleric can go Drunk Monk for solo.

[patent pond]

yeah, basically what i said. their solo effectiveness is just nonexistent

[upper sonnet]

Wizard just needs their stats reverted he was in a fine state in PT4, the Spell Casting speed nerfs were the only thing left he needed to be perfectly balanced

[patent pond]

not even, wizard is the most OP class in the game now that locust swarm got nerfed

[upper sonnet]

lol HR leader board say otherwise

[patent pond]

wizards dont have the best PvE, but they legitimately the best PvP class when you know how to use them

[upper sonnet]

KenKenobi is the only Wizard performing well and even with his kill count Wizards are in Third place, behind Bard and Cleric

[ashen oak]

haste + invis already gamechanging

[patent pond]

literally. they do rogues better than rogues do

[upper sonnet]

If you take Ken off the next best Wizard has like 60 kills which makes Wizard the worse class in the game (besides Bard) by kills.

If they were dominant they'd be #2 in kills like in PT4 or any other previous PT

[patent pond]

leaderboards aren't the only gauge for whats effective? people have been playing rogues like crazy now, but that doesnt mean rogues are the best class

[upper sonnet]

Rogues have the highest kill count next to Barb rn on HR

[ashen oak]

right

[arctic hound]

Rogue & Barb definitely the strongest two classes for this playtest

[upper sonnet]

And what people say for why Wizard needs to be nerfed is because of "High Gear Wizard" being too strong but the HR leaderboards show they're actually weak at top level.

[patent pond]

yeah, rogues are also have one of the highest playrates now, thats a skewed statistic

[upper sonnet]

They also nerfed his scaling already. Knowledge no longer is as strong for Spell Casting speed and all equipment rolls got rebalanced.

[calm bay]

is HR really a proper testament of how a class performs tho?

[trail forge]

Remove movement speed penalty while performing songs

[upper sonnet]

No but if you took all the data for PT3 Wizard was actually 3rd place in that playtest yet people still thought they were the absolute pinnacle of strength

[spare rivet]

Staves should have a low dmg, short range "cantrip" as their primary attack instead of just "whack"

[arctic hound]

Aye but part of the reason rogue is played so much is because it is so strong with this playtest's buffs.

[patent pond]

you say that, but the stack whack is literally as effective as the rogues starting dagger

[ashen oak]

wait so because wizard is no longer top 3 it need to be change?

[upper sonnet]

Rogue went from the worst performing class to one of the strongest classes in the game it's pretty funny

[spare rivet]

the attack speed is not comparable

[patent pond]

rogue isnt even strong with this playtests buff, its just fun?

[trail forge]

Lol

[upper sonnet]

Wizard is not just 'not top 3' they're the weakest class next to Bard by performance

[arctic hound]

I strongly disagree

[patent pond]

everyone talking about how rogues are so strong. have you played rogue?

[calm bay]

next to bard??

[trail forge]

Lol

[upper sonnet]

I mean Bard is such an outlier they shouldn't be counted tbh

[trail forge]

Literally give bard poison and rupture it would still be the weakest class

[patent pond]

bard is awful, but so is rogue. especially when it comes to stealth rogue. hide is actually hot garbage

[upper sonnet]

Wizard is the real weakest class rn. The top scoring Bard on HR has like 11 kills lmfao I don't think they should be counted. They're that bad.

[trail forge]

Absolutely a skill issue brother

[twilit thistle]

Anyone complaining about rogue power right now is low skill broke cope no gear scrub

[patent pond]

people bumping you and it breaking your stealth is not a skill issue, and neither is NPCs still tracking you while youre invis

[trail forge]

So what you're saying is bard is the weakest class

[rugged blade]

Wen release pirate and pirateer?

[upper sonnet]

yeag

[patent pond]

ive played every class (but bard) to lvl 20, rogue is easily the weakest

[trail forge]

That is a wild skill issue

[upper sonnet]

[patent pond]

dying to a rogue at their current power level is the real skill issue

[trail forge]

Anyway gonna play the actual game instead of pretending like rogue is bad bye

[twilit thistle]

You get to 20 in no time even just looting and ratting and not extracting. If you think rogue is bad I wonder what you think is good

[turbid ermine]

Spell denier cleric is good, just need a dedicated buff cleric behind you

[patent pond]

cleric is super strong atm. especially thanks to the rest changes

[patent pond]

cleric and wizard are easily 2 of the strongest classes atm

[twilit thistle]

🤣

[turbid ermine]

Just avoid locust swarm like the plague, spell was nerfed into been pointless

[patent pond]

inb4 "theyre not on the top of the high roller list, so theyre not good"

[patent pond]

it needed the nerf, it was legitimately instakilling people, ive been on both sides of it

[upper sonnet]

On another note though: What's the verdict on how to balance out the extremely high Damage Reduction values people can get? I think lowering the cap to 85% would be a decent start but I think it would be a bit too strong still.

[turbid ermine]

It needed a fat nerf, but they just dropped a rock on it.

[patent pond]

it would be better to just make armor pen more effective. that way its still useful against NPCs, but not too crazy in PvP

[upper sonnet]

I think Locus Swarm would be alright if they gave it 3 uses instead of 1. As is it'd be a decent AoE tool even if the damage is low.

I think the issue is more that even if they made Armor Pen have better rolls it'd just make it so at Late Wipe HR you're just gonna have to stack up Armor Pen stuff instead of just Weapon Damage.

And the issue of low tier players getting met with an impenetrable wall remains. The Tarkov issue.

[patent pond]

nah, youd need to balance it, bc youd be way less effective against unarmored people

[upper sonnet]

I mean that's basically how Tarkov tries to do it. Doesn't work.

I was thinking maybe Headshots could get a special -X% Armor Pen property. Like say it's -20% and the cap is lowered to 85%.

[patent pond]

ive played tarkov and went all the way to kappa case twice. its got a steep difficulty curve, and theres tons of cheaters, but the balance is honestly fine

[lethal ledge]

i feel like overall the game needs less stats, like why do we have additional physical damage, physical damage, true physical damage, strength, all these stats which affect the same thing which is your physical damage output

[twilit thistle]

The armor values are high but the damage that can be reached is also crazy high with the same tier of gear catered towards dmg

[upper sonnet]

Additional is the weirdest thing to me IMO feels completely unnecessary

[patent pond]

very true, a lot of them essentially are the same with different wording

[upper sonnet]

If you don't know Additional is basically added AFTER Weapon Power and Modifiers are calculated. But before Locational and AR.

[lethal ledge]

like thats sooo important of a feture the game needs

[upper sonnet]

So it doesn't benefit from your STR or other abilities. It's pretty much ONLY useful on like low STR classes.

[twilit thistle]

I think if people could see their weapon damage in the stash screen it would help. Right now it’s a bit cryptic

[patent pond]

thats actually a huge problem too. they need to explain the stats better. like Wtf does magical interaction speed do

[lethal ledge]

a bit is an understatement

[upper sonnet]

True is actually somewhat useful since it basically ignores armor.

It's applied after all other Damage calculations. So it's basically Armor Penetrating damage but it doesn't get Locational buffs

[obtuse hamlet]

I’d assume casting speed

[patent pond]

no, casting speed is its own stat

[lethal ledge]

damage and true damage is the only damage traits the game needs, stuff like strength, will and the other rpg stats are fine but need more of an explanation on what they affect

[regal lion]

mabye interacting with shrines?

[upper sonnet]

I feel like the stats are well explained, they say what they modify. The damage parts of STR and Will is Magic/Weapon Power

[lethal ledge]

its for the magic shrines, like shrine of power or the health shrines, again, why does the game need it XD

[obtuse hamlet]

Yea the stats are kinda confusing at times like the person before stated having the stats show while you in stash would help a lot I’ve just been stacking true physical damage and was hitting 117 a hs with my long bow

[patent pond]

its not for the shrine, because rogues use shrines the fastest, and they have -25% magic interaction speed

[upper sonnet]

I remember people thought Magical Interaction Speed was the stat that speed up channeling like Meditate

[lethal ledge]

well now i rly dont know

[upper sonnet]

But no that's spell casting speed still. It's completely redundant, it should just me merged into normal interaction speed.

[patent pond]

the weird thing about magic interaction speed is that physical interaction gives you examples in the description. magic just says "magic objects:

[obtuse hamlet]

Well wouldn’t that be resourcefulness since it’s an action

[exotic swift]

Hi, How can i make a suggestion vor voting?

[grim fiber]

There is a section in #❓faq where every stats is explained

[patent pond]

yeah, but why cant that be in game

[lethal ledge]

maybe its an additional interaction speed for those magic objects, not completely separate to the normal one, portals could be included?

[grim fiber]

Idk, anyway magical interaction should help with the shrines

[upper sonnet]

They had a 'Fopdoodles guide' before that had that tutorial

But they deleted it this playtest for some reason idk why. Maybe they were working on a better tutorial but couldn't finish it. Like Quivers and Warlock

Potentially also it used the old art Nexon is shitting itself over so when they sanitized the game for a theoretical Steam release they didn't have time to redo it. More likely tbh

[obtuse hamlet]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on this pts balance changes

[severe turtle]

It would be cool if the 1.0 release, if there will be one, has dungeons in 5 level increments, with stat increases as you level as well

[upper sonnet]

Bad and Good.

Rogue needs a few tweaks. Ranger needs Quivers. Revert everything about Wizard except the Rest and Spell Casting scaling. Redo Bard. Actually nerf Barb.

[exotic swift]

Anyone know how i can create a suggestion for the d-a-d suggestions channel?

[obtuse hamlet]

Find the double jump highly annoying and barb wasn’t even touched aside from the axe specialist perk but the slow plus damage on it is a bit much

[upper sonnet]

Otherwise it's alright. They should've known better that the Locus Swarm being 1 damage every .1 second was a bad idea after Ignite Dagger being broken as fuck

[patent pond]

are you just like a wizard main?

[obtuse hamlet]

I could see them adding quivers that would take up a hot bar slot maybe they could hold 50 arrows save some space

[upper sonnet]

They already have the Cape slot for a Quiver

[obtuse hamlet]

I’m glad they added more starting arrows tho 10 was way too little and people were saying to just use your arming sword as if it doesn’t take like 20 swings to kill a mob with it

[patent pond]

that would be dumb to make them unable to wear a cape though, like the quiver should be built in

[obtuse hamlet]

I think buying one and having it as a hot bar slot would be better than having it take up the cloak spot

[upper sonnet]

I think it's a decent trade off. Either get Cape for stats or Quiver for more inventory space. You can still do it the old fashion way and Rangers are still doing alright this playtest even with the nerf

Especially when they add Wild Magic Rangers will be juiced as fuck already

[patent pond]

yeah, but no other class has to deal with that lack of inventory space. thats pretty BS to nerf their inventory as well as everything else

[obtuse hamlet]

Yea I think ranger is balanced now at first I hated it because the low amount of arrows but starting off with 30 definitely helps now

Especially since I’ve been using spear mastery and using a long bow stacking true physical dmg and strength so hitting max 117 a hs

[tranquil shore]

think I just called it?

[obtuse hamlet]

Called what?

[tranquil shore]

9 winters instead of 8

[granite plinth]

how do i suggest

[obtuse hamlet]

They’ll probably have suggestions back up after this playtest ends

[placid zinc]

I love the feel of the bard; however, it is obvious that their power level is no where near those of the classes that have been around for the previous play tests. Here are my thoughts on potential tweaks / changes to the current iteration of the bard as well as future ideas. I have leveled two bards to 20. One as a solo in gobo caves and one as a trio.

Hitting 100% notes of a song is detrimental. You only need to hit 50-60% of the notes to have the song succeed. Either juice up the duration 2x for hitting all 100% notes or reduce all songs to just be 3 notes to begin with. It feels weird spamming the last notes and failing on purpose.

While playing notes of a song, your movement speed is reduced by ~30-40%. This makes it hard to react in a battle that you have not anticipated. You have to pre-play the songs similar to pre-potting. I understand you can't have full movement speed while starting up the song, but perhaps a reduction of just 20% would help the flow.

The duration of song buffs should vary. Song twisting is something that I think would do well in this game. For example, if a song exists that increases your projectile resistance and lasts 15 seconds then you can play that song first followed by a song that lasts 8 seconds followed by a song that is a short burst of a few seconds.

We need more instruments. Drums should provide a better bonus to speed style / battle songs while Lute should be better for recovery style songs and a Horn/Brass should be better for defense songs.

Perks / Skills - Clearly need many more.

[inland pelican]

We need a lute variant with axe blades on either side of the fat bit so bards can call it their 'axe'

[placid zinc]

Also consider giving Bards a perk that lets them be more like a Skald with Singing Specialty - This makes it so you do not need to use an instrument to play the songs; however, the effect of the songs would be 50% or something. This would allow more of a battle bard / skald play style. Some songs might not work with this such as the AoE Charm - that can made to require an instrument as well as any other song that you can't just scale it back 50%.

[obtuse hamlet]

Have bard get xp from playing the song that makes mobs attack each other

[inland pelican]

This

[obtuse hamlet]

I’ve never touched bard but I can tell it’s really underwhelming just don’t want it to be overtuned

Also nerf barb shouldn’t have an insane health pool and the ability to one shot people

[placid zinc]

I just run around naked with boots on and my lute.

[inland pelican]

Bard is an almost full support, give us a defense or deception song, let is get exp a LITTLE easier.

[lavish palm]

Based and bard pilled. Seriously I feel like it takes so long to lvl up

[placid zinc]

New Song ideas:

Single target song that deal direct damage. This should scale based on the number of notes you hit. You can do a quick 1 note of the song for small damage or complete the full melody for large damage.

AoE buff song for AR / Projectiles

AoE buff song for Magic defense

Single target song that removes a debuff. This can be single target if you just hit 1 or 2 notes. If you complete the full melody of 5 or 6 notes than it is an AoE.

AoE song that provides a very large light source

[plucky saffron]

Bard is trash. It needs rework. Only speed song is good for anything. 0 solo potential. It got good perks tho. Few more extra to make him viable solo and songs to make him actually usefull and it's ok. Oh. Also lute in misc slot (belt) It's a weapon slot for some weird reason.

[placid zinc]

I really think if they lean into a Skald / Singing specialty and scale down the songs because you are singing instead of instrument out it can be solo viable.

[obtuse hamlet]

Have bard Rick roll people and make it one shot if they play all 10 notes perfectly

[trail forge]

Lmfao scale down the songs. It's wild how everyone innately thinks bard has to be a garbage class whenever implemented

[placid zinc]

I mean ... scale down the Skald / Singing perk from a full support bard with an instrument out

[plucky saffron]

It needs damage, not singing. You cant kill stacked barb with some dumb no-fight song. Bard have no use right now.

[iron stump]

a perk to allow rogues to trap exit portals. does a little damage or inverse your keys for a couple seconds.

[trail forge]

It isn't even a full support bard in its current state wtf are you talking about?

[placid zinc]

so the perk would be like "You can now sing the songs and dont need an instrument out... but your songs are X% weaker"

[turbid ermine]

Give bard among us song that slowly deals unblockable emotional damage.
💀

[plucky saffron]

Exactly hahah what songs ? 15 speed bosst is full support i guess haha

[obtuse hamlet]

Na it’s already annoying enough having rogues camping exits

[placid zinc]

Clearly they need to tweak the songs and add more -

[trail forge]

This game's player base is 95% mouth breathers

[placid zinc]

Add various instrumens ... if you use a drum with the speed boost song and hit all 5 notes then you run 50% faster.

[obtuse hamlet]

Is mayonnaise an instrument

[trail forge]

Suggestion: revert to play test 3 and sell at full price as soon as Nexon gets slapped down for frivolous lawsuit. Game is moving in a bad direction

[inland pelican]

The health regen song is huge in parties, we won lots of fights in my experience just because I swap between speed and regen, but a defense song or attack speed song would be huge

[plucky saffron]

And then you have cleric with earthquake or just buffs that makes your barb unkillable. @placid zinc how do you kill stacked barbarian with 50% speed boost to 13 dmg rapier?

[placid zinc]

You wouldn't - but you could run away or have your group chase 😛

[trail forge]

Yeah amazing give bard an even bigger inventory space tax than ranger because we need to carry 4 different instruments we need to swap in combat while playing discount guitar hero. Absolutely wild

[plucky saffron]

So what's the use? He just hits you with Francesca in the head and you die from Achiless.

[obtuse hamlet]

The whole buffed barb meta is so aids just hearing an invis speed boosted barb run at you gives me ptsd

[plucky saffron]

It would be usable with instruments*** on actuall misc slots instead of weapons ***

[void cedar]

How do i submit a suggestion?

[void crag]

why nerf the torches? why would a torch take up a weapon slot when the lantern doesn't?

[placid zinc]

What if they scrapped instruments all together and changed the bard to be a singing style which allows them to also wield a weapon?

[trail forge]

So we don't get to hot key consumables and light sources now? No, having different instruments for individual songs is a dumb idea

[obtuse hamlet]

My guess is you could clip a lateen on your belt but I wish they would put the torch back on the belt

[trail forge]

Yeah torch change was God awful I refuse to believe it was done for any reason other than the lawsuit

[void cedar]

I thought lantern is a belt torch and torch is a combat lantern

[obtuse hamlet]

Never used them anyways and what’s the point of having different rarity lanterns like a blue one I got didn’t give off more light or anything then the starting one

[iron stump]

@eager sable help

[eager sable]

Suggester Help • Page 1/2

Module: Suggestions

Commands for submitting and interacting with suggestions

.edit [suggestion id] [new content] - Edits a suggestion
.shortinfo [suggestion id] - Shows information about a suggestion in a concise manner
.suggest [suggestion] - Submits a suggestion

Additional Information

Use .help [command] to view more information about a specific command, including usage examples.
Required arguments are surrounded by [brackets], optional arguments are surrounded by (parenthesis)

Useful Links

Join our Support Server
Documentation
Invite Me
Support Suggester
Privacy Policy

Use the arrow reactions to navigate pages, and the ⏹ reaction to close the embed

[plucky saffron]

That's one of the changes. You also need viable songs to be usefull for the team 😂 You need weapon slots to play solo. If he got proper healing, shielding and maybe some invis shenanigans he wouldnt need potions

[obtuse hamlet]

Just remake bard into a piper that summons rats to attack people

[placid zinc]

Allow perma charm song on a single mob as long as you keep playing the melody 😛

[wanton lichen]

stash should be for all characters

[turbid ermine]

No. Not enough space

[obtuse hamlet]

Akeno better

[plucky saffron]

Make it 10 times bigger and sure

[wanton lichen]

yah ofc

[obtuse hamlet]

Bruh some of y’all shouldn’t be able to suggest things tf was that last suggestion lmao

[void cedar]

What channel does the suggestion bot link to? I dont have access to it

[trail forge]

This guy gets it

[obtuse hamlet]

I think that last guy that got 2k downvotes should just be banned from ever suggesting anything

[iron stump]

@eager sable .suggest [a trait that allows rogues to trap exit portals. a limited number like caltrops. the trap randomizes the players movement key bindings for a second or immoblizes for a second. ]

[void cedar]

Better to suggest garbage than to not suggest a banger addition

[iron stump]

@eager sable help

[eager sable]

Suggester Help • Page 1/2

Module: Suggestions

Commands for submitting and interacting with suggestions

.edit [suggestion id] [new content] - Edits a suggestion
.shortinfo [suggestion id] - Shows information about a suggestion in a concise manner
.suggest [suggestion] - Submits a suggestion

Additional Information

Use .help [command] to view more information about a specific command, including usage examples.
Required arguments are surrounded by [brackets], optional arguments are surrounded by (parenthesis)

Useful Links

Join our Support Server
Documentation
Invite Me
Support Suggester
Privacy Policy

Use the arrow reactions to navigate pages, and the ⏹ reaction to close the embed

[obtuse hamlet]

Most of the time it’s stuff that wouldn’t benefit the game in anyway shape or form and just absurd suggest practical things that benefits everyone

[wanton lichen]

. suggest [ stash should be for all characters and made bigger}

[wanton lichen]

u are a no name not god now go trade on dark and darker

[obtuse hamlet]

???

[lusty wren]

👎

[elfin arch]

trade system should be like escape from tarkov or new world would be fire

[granite plinth]

Ruins shouldn't have the pubg circle. Encourage exploration and punish over extending but everyone who wants to get out should get out

[obtuse hamlet]

This would turn into people just being rats and sitting in one spot

[turbid ermine]

no

[split tundra]

Add ingame shop with legendary loot and battle pass skins.

[granite plinth]

Build the map from the center out, everyone has a set of door that unlocks at 3 or w/e but if they want look they push towards the side of the map, where the segments connect

[obtuse hamlet]

They already said they’re not doing the whole bp system

[granite plinth]

If you want loot it's there if you want to go to crypt earlier you can

[stuck leaf]

What do y'all think would make the bard competitive? I'd like to see a buff to rapier mastery and some budget offense spells. Perhaps a skill that casts the selected song without having your instrument out (excluding channeled songs)

[regal lion]

mabye a aoe slow only on enemys would be nice

[obtuse hamlet]

Don’t think they’d even consider this they’ll more then likely keep the zone

[cold nimbus]

EXTEND THE PLAYTEST

[stuck leaf]

Also like... bards gotta collab better. We need harmonies

[granite plinth]

Yuh it's suggestions I'm saying they should thanks tho

[split tundra]

Casting song without instrument. What a bizzare way to say "sing"

[upper sonnet]

No slow down while playing songs. Buff songs/add less useless ones. Give them more stuff to do as a Solo/Way to hold their own like Cleric so they just don't die immediately if focused down.

[granite plinth]

Crowd control? Pacify is neat but isn't very viable. Give them a flat stun at the end of it for 1 sec

[obtuse hamlet]

They need to make it where he gains xp from making the mobs kill each other

[stuck leaf]

what song is useless? theyre all good

[obtuse hamlet]

Haven’t touched bard but can already tell he’s pretty useless they’ll probably overbuff him to compensate

[hollow root]

he is good for a party of 3

[regal lion]

The speed up and heal arent that bad especially with a running around comp instead of a pvp comp

[stuck leaf]

It's good for speed running

[bleak parrot]

What if rangers had double jump!!…?

[cobalt carbon]

Bard has fun potential. But the class is verrry underdeveloped right now. The lack of skills it has, is just embarrassing compared to the other classes.

[upper sonnet]

Bard with Double Jump ez

[stuck leaf]

The speed up is obvious but the heal spell is aoe and effective when combined with pots

[obtuse hamlet]

As a ranger main no double jump is annoying to go against I can’t imagine getting shot at while a ranger is doing flips

[cobalt carbon]

That's stupid.
Bard should just levitate while playing songs.

[stuck leaf]

tru

[bleak parrot]

Ranger double jump would be so sick

[cobalt carbon]

Double jump is so much fun.
And so broken.

[obtuse hamlet]

Nerf barb and remove double jump or have it be on a 5 second cool down

[cobalt carbon]

Why nerf barb? Nerf what about them?

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[stuck leaf]

I'd hate to see double jump removed. I enjoy things that give identity like that. Rather see buffs to other classes than a nerf most days

[bleak parrot]

The mobs are too strong…

[obtuse hamlet]

Insane health pool and can still do insane damage they can’t be tanks and canons at the same time while having axe specialist that adds +5 to throwing axes and a slow

[stuck leaf]

Ranger with wall climb XD

[plucky saffron]

Make it triple 🤭 It still dies from Windlass headshot so it's balanced

[cobalt carbon]

Geared fighters are also incredibly tanky, and do insane amounts of damage.

[granite plinth]

skill issue all mobs are predictable

[glacial sphinx]

Nah double jump is too broken and doesnt fit in slow paced meticulous combat. if you just keep buffing stuff you'll end up playing DBZ fighters. It needs to be nerfed somehow or removed

[obtuse hamlet]

Not talking about mobs

[bleak parrot]

Double jumps is not op

[analog haven]

get gud

[granite plinth]

barbs play like mobs

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[plucky saffron]

Run around till they die

[stuck leaf]

Hard disagree. It's less powerful the farther down in the dungeon you go just like things that can break doors. Rn rogues can just chill in ruins all day so it's abused

[bleak parrot]

Chill and get no loot….

[granite plinth]

what class has a problem? barb fear, rogue jump, fighter block/spear. archer range, bard alt f4

[obtuse hamlet]

Exactly geared fighters a barb with default gear can still 1-2 shot a rogue or ranger

[stuck leaf]

listen..

[cobalt carbon]

Imo, problem isn't Barbs. Problem is the dual buffing they always get from Wizard + Cleric. Buffs shouldn't stack together as much as they do. Smite and Flaming weapon shouldn't stack together, much like Haste and Protection shouldn't. Or something among those lines. When a Barb (or any class) has 5 buffs on it, and just runs at you? It's impossible to deal with, unless you also have insane buffs on your team.

[bleak parrot]

Server is back up

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[stuck leaf]

get outa here

[plucky saffron]

You can't be serious. You can't hit with default axe. It's just too slow. You need to buy any 10 gold alternative to be op lmao

[granite plinth]

I really don't get this. Solo barb main here, I can't catch up to anyone. If you're caught in a bad spot then you aren't listening, we can't move silentely at all, I don't think I've ever snuck up on anyone

[cobalt carbon]

Barb's roar that gives speed boost makes them able to chase rangers down. Not sure about Rogues, now that they have double-jump.

[plucky saffron]

But it's in the game. If you can't hit double jumping rogue, then it's just your skill issue. There is no amount of double jump that crossbow headshot can't fix

[obtuse hamlet]

It’s not solo barbs that are a problem it’s the buffed ones

[granite plinth]

Play defensive, there should be a class that can rush in, the answer doesn't have to be to nerf them

[obtuse hamlet]

Invis speed boosted triple shielded ignite barbs are stupid broken

[cobalt carbon]

If you're solo, you don't have a Wizard giving you haste lol. But aside from that, use the roar that gives a speed boost. That's your kill window.

[stuck leaf]

Y'all the fighter can literally parry riposte any attack in the game and yall complain about double jump. it's just a skill issue ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[turbid ermine]

Buff yourself

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[granite plinth]

Sorry I should have clarified barb main, I don't play any other classes isnce the 3rd playtest

[plucky saffron]

We already established that you are bad at the game. Your opinion is irrelevant. Just get gud and come back

You can dodge every mob you mentioned with wasd buttons

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[glacial sphinx]

Double jump should be a skill with a fairly long CD, or it should be removed. Its way too strong for a perk, no one will ever pick anything over double jump. Its the best for PVP, its the best for PVE, its the best for sneaking around and completely avoiding combat

[strange stirrup]

Damn man actually complaining about a play test? Like excuse me the entire point of this is to make the game better with experience. ITS A TRIAL OF THE GAME. If you dont like it dont play, just enjoy it. Its a fun game to play.

[granite plinth]

Bro have you even seen a nightmare skeleton? Wisps were funny but I can dodge flashes so its fine

[plucky saffron]

Bro please. I was just a fighter chasing down some rogue and he appeared... I wont forget this.. he got zweihander

[granite plinth]

CD is actually a very neat idea

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[heavy lion]

double jump doesnt need a CD

[plucky saffron]

Bro it's not broken. Your ankles are broken. Get gud because all you ve mentioned CAN BE OUTPLAYED

[obtuse hamlet]

It should be put on a 5 second cooldown if not more

[granite plinth]

more

[upper sonnet]

cringe

[limber root]

Guys I may be too good at the game for them to extend the playtest. They may be afraid my character will become sentient and I don't bla.me them

[inland pelican]

I like tumble... but it needs a little help... would have it tumble you in the direction you are moving, maybe have it activate faster

[cobalt carbon]

"Can be outplayed" can be said about nearly anything. The question is, do the devs want to make the game playable by new players? Or just the people that have been playing since Playtest #1?

[neon barn]

When are servers back up?

[upper sonnet]

Just make it so while DJ you have a damage vulnerability while in the air and for like 2 seconds while on the ground ez. Adds more risk and reward to spamming it

[obtuse hamlet]

I don’t mind it in the crypts but ruins has way too many spots for rogues to just sit out of range if you don’t have any long range dps

[regal lion]

mabye invul frames

[wet brook]

nah, the fun doublejumping is comboing them to get an advantage a cd would take all that away BUT
maybe a recharge mechanic with 3 charges you can use up

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[paper mist]

Please just stop asking and use your brain and eyes just a little

[plucky saffron]

It's learning experience. It took me 2 axe skeles to learn the pattern. If you die once from a mech to learn it, it's not a big deal.

[inland pelican]

@regal lion yeah that would work, not super amazing vs players but amazing fix for pve

[obtuse hamlet]

Just kill them before they get a chance to attack

[granite plinth]

three charges is too many, scarcity should be an element. Do you want a passive recharge or actice? if passive then 2, if you recharge them with rest then like 4 or 5 or something

[wet brook]

yea so it fills up again, 15 seconds a charge

[plucky saffron]

Or just dodge them. It's not that complicated really.

[obtuse hamlet]

True I just kill them in 2-3 hits

[plucky saffron]

Up to 3 charges, but make it jump higher so it has impact it needs

[granite plinth]

This is probably the best handle on the double jump. Not sure what the amount of charges/recharges should be but it would stop the spamming

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[turbid ermine]

You lack arguments against his statement, so you result to insults, not a good look

[plucky saffron]

Who asked?

[wet brook]

yea i like that, so you cant just parkour thru the whole map, it is fun tho 😄

[granite plinth]

I want it to be a cool unique mechanic but it's goofy the way it is now

[regal lion]

Yea ive been doing some real goofy stuff recently with rogue

[stuck leaf]

What do y'all think about bard getting 20% better buy/sell prices? XD

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[plucky saffron]

https://tenor.com/view/dies-of-cringe-cringe-gif-20747133

[regal lion]

Dont they got the more loot perk? does anyone know how much it actually effects the loot

[cobalt carbon]

Doesn't bard already effectively have that? In a way, at least. They get more loot with the passive perk they have. More loot = more gold = buy more stuff.

[glacial sphinx]

Its completely stupid in ruins, to the point that you can just sit on some insanely high up wall and always get a blue portal if you want. And then in the normal dungeon it completely trivializes avoiding any PVE mobs swings, including the harder ones like axeman and spearman

[regal lion]

So? 🥹

[stuck leaf]

No clue how the perk effects the loot. I think better haggling would be quite thematic.

[obtuse hamlet]

Rogues in ruins just play Batman and we’re all Gotham thugs they drop on us and beat us to death then take the portal out

[granite plinth]

It's a ruins issue not a rogue issue, seperate parties more and give them options for loot but pvp in ruins should be more scarce. People who want to go to crypt through ruins should be able to

[plucky saffron]

I think it isn't the problem with bard. The problem is that he is totally useless but his speed song.

[regal lion]

The healing aint bad

[glacial sphinx]

No it is a rogue issue when one perk completely limits your map design options. Ruins is completely fine for every other class

[plucky saffron]

Have you seen cleric heals? Bard is useless rn

[stuck leaf]

He's definitely not useless. Cleric is just really strong. I don't think it would take much to push him to viability

[granite plinth]

Higher walls aren't limiting game design

[regal lion]

True cleric is really strong am i though only one getting one shot by judgement?

[cobalt carbon]

I'd like to see the Cleric's heals turned into heal over times. I hate that they go from 5% HP to 85% HP instantly.

[stuck leaf]

He's got usage of the strongest 1h sword and the speed of a rogue

[plucky saffron]

He is good for chest opening and holding the torch. Cleric can 0-100 his team in few sec

[obtuse hamlet]

Everyone can we just agree that if bard smacks you with his lute it should make a sound like someone hitting a bunch of wrong notes

[granite plinth]

oof

[granite plinth]

+1

[stuck leaf]

Some good perks and skills is all he really needs, I think. Plus a few budget offence spells to make him a total all rounder

[wet brook]

Ruins after the patch was kinda meh, i really liked the first version.. feels more like a "story" in a whole.. going deep and deeper... i hope at some point there is the possiblity to go down a couple layers into hell in a single adventure.

[cobalt carbon]

If the bard smacks you with his lute, the game should just auto-uninstall for you.

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[glacial sphinx]

What do you mean? You think it makes sense to completely change the aesthetic and lighting of a map, change the floor layouts just to accommodate this one clearly broken perk? Its mostly just rogues liking the fact that they have something super OP being hesitant against its removal or nerf. The combat is supposed to be slow and meticulous and this breaks that.

[scarlet anchor]

can you please put heath bars under the name of your teammates, also a range indicator on the nameplate for cleric and bard heals and buffs would be fantastic

[regal lion]

I think the way i play rogue with double jump is different then how others play with double jump

[wet brook]

im all ear hehee

[granite plinth]

double jumps out of the conversation

[plucky saffron]

He needs total rework. These skills are way too situational. Movement speed one is good. Also @sour sandal skill issue. Game shouldn't be developed to fit low-skilled people. It gets boring that way and leave no depth to learning curve. Just shh already

[granite plinth]

I just feel like you're trying to do deeper and deeper levels with one lobby and still have people meeting up on b2, ruins should be more of a casual area where you can over extend and force pvp, or pve in a linear path to get basic gear prior to crypt

[regal lion]

Well i mostly just afk in the highest place in crypt then i go to hell and get mega loot just from hopping around in hell

[turbid ermine]

It's normal...it just requires a cooldown up to 10-15. To insult another because you disagree is just childish.

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[smoky stone]

this is my first playtest and within 2 days i learned the pattern of almost all the normal enemies imo and easily deal with even nightmare versions.

[cobalt carbon]

I'll disagree. The game should be designed to fit a wide array of skill levels. If it's only for the hardcore elite, bestest of the bestest, then it's going to die, lol.

[cobalt carbon]

Congrats. Everyone has different skill levels, skill ceilings, and reach those places quicker or slower.

[obtuse hamlet]

They should add arrows or dots something along those lines on the minimap to show your team mates

[granite plinth]

boo less hud work for info

[smoky stone]

although i will say i was actually somewhat tilted in the first 2 hours i played. But i kept going and after having some survives it became fun.

[plucky saffron]

Not hardcore. Ive said that it shouldnt be developed for casuals. It should be easy to learn (which it is, you just need to observe) and hard to master ( which it is if you want to escape consistant). This guy is just bad at the game bitching about 2h skele patterns and double jump being op. They will remove every satisfaction from game with removing actuall mechanics.

[cobalt carbon]

Glad to hear it! The game is pretty fun, but still needs a lot of work, in a lot of ways. It'll be interesting to see where the devs push things towards.

[stuck leaf]

The songs are all powerful... They could certainly use some adjusting but I think you're ignoring the strength of ignoring mobs for rotating and positioning in fights and never having to rest

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[obtuse hamlet]

Any guesses on when early access will release assuming the whole law suit gets dropped or we win

[wet brook]

Im really excitet what this game is about to become if it gets to survive

[stuck leaf]

Bard is also goated for pve

[turbid ermine]

It's absolutely fine for certain abilities to be good or bad depending on the map. It's exactly how dnd, the inspiration for dad, works. How jumping is cancer is beyond me, it's a movement option that requires timing and precision to be useful in combat and comes handy to ambush from unexpected places...the whole thing rogues do

[cobalt carbon]

Double jumping is pretty OP. Name one passive skill you'd rather have, lol. I would take double jump over pretty much anything. PVE becomes a non-threat, you can juke out anyone who doesn't have double jump as well, and you can nearly break the map entirely.

[stuck leaf]

Shouldn't be another playtest. It's planned to go to early access after this one.

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[obtuse hamlet]

I know any guesses on when it’ll drop

[plucky saffron]

Id rather have bard extra loot on rogue or moving on stealth

[cobalt carbon]

Hopefully they get back on Steam, or just make their own launcher for the game. The torrent thing is an awful idea.

[obtuse hamlet]

Think the torrent stuff was more of a last second thing

[stuck leaf]

1-2 months I would gander by their schedule. Obviously take that with a grain of salt

[plucky saffron]

I ve played Dora the Explorer. This is pretty hardcore tbh. The map icon.. bruh

[smoky stone]

Double jump is op, but its a playtest. Im almost certain will be nerfed and get a cooldown.

(Honestly if you ask me it should instead become a skill that has x amount of uses that regens with campfire, so lets say you only had 25 double jumps in total)

[cobalt carbon]

Odd choice about the bard loot thing. Personally, I don't value loot that highly. Moving while stealthed is surprising to me. I'd definitely prefer to double jump. So many shadows you can get into. Remove pots from your belt, and.. Bam. Invis. Sure, you can't move. But you also can't be bumped into on accident, and you can't be hit by melees at all lol. They just have to wait or leave.

[obtuse hamlet]

Did you ever stop swiper heard he’s an insane boss

[plucky saffron]

Yea. I was yelling so hard but he swiped anyway..

[smoky stone]

Would incentivise not spamming it 24/7 and go around the map by normal means.

[wet brook]

Thats also a pretty nice idea!

[glacial sphinx]

30 second CD on a skill that lets you double jump for 5 seconds on activation and it's okay. I just wish they had acted on it a little sooner, before too many people played with it cause there will be some complaints when it inevitably gets nerfed now.

[cobalt carbon]

Yeah, it had to have been. Still, hope they do anything else for the next playtest or early access. The torrent thing was a bad idea imo. Even though it shouldn't matter, it won't look good in their case against Nexon. "IronMace promotes the use of torrenting!"

[stuck leaf]

So back to more interesting things than double jump.. like the bard!

[plucky saffron]

3 charges, 15 sec charge BUT make it jump higher so it's actuall skill

[obtuse hamlet]

Heard there’s an Easter egg where if you give boots enough bananas he rips swipers arms off

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[plucky saffron]

Skill issue, sorry

[obtuse hamlet]

Don’t think they have a real case tbh they’ll probably drag it out and try to bleed iron mace

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[wet brook]

money rules

[cobalt carbon]

I don't think Nexon is in the right, but I think they have enough to make people question IronMace's legitimacy.

[obtuse hamlet]

They 100% aren’t they gave permission for him to run things on his server and never told him to shut it down them being negligent and being sour now that the genre has blown up

[plucky saffron]

You can get good gear easier with this park. Gear is needed on rogue. Also i can't imagine not moving on stealth. It helps too much. Maybe i am just used to it. Double jump is good but not broken tbh. You can make same case about stealth. You pick stealth 9/10 times on rogue.

[spiral hatch]

I think ironmace needs to add a training/test room with dummies to test out perks/skills with your weapons before you enter in a lobby. The only place to test and see how much damage you do with different perks is while waiting in a match.

[trail forge]

You need to be able to duel friends as well

[real trellis]

Cave troll needs adjustment... it's legitimately harder to fight with more than 1 person in the room, but the apparent "intent" is to pick up a group to fight him?

[spiral hatch]

Yes, that would also be awesome

[obtuse hamlet]

Make the tavern interact able while you wait on your party have a table where you can play poker or something similar against other players

[plucky saffron]

Poker or DORA THE EXPLORER. Cool idea tho. Some chekers maybe

[obtuse hamlet]

Dora too hardcore bro

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[granite plinth]

Add a tv too

[plucky saffron]

Yea sure. Some casual "2h axe skele - fobes" could get emotional damage

[obtuse hamlet]

Add Otto treats to the tavern masters inv

[plucky saffron]

Maybe that's too ambitiois but. Make high-roller lobbies 'mutations'. Mobs get extra buffs, effects, skills depending on mutation. It rotates daily/weekly/every run depending on people opinion

[obtuse hamlet]

2h and spear skelly only

[sour sandal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[somber wind]

Bard gear needs stat variance, currently the following all has the same stats across the board:

[Headgear]
Feather Hat
Leather Bonnet
Straw Hat

[Chest Pieces]
Troubadour Outfit
Wanderer Attire

[Legs]
Bardic Pants
Leather Chausses

[trail forge]

Bard gear in general is atrocious.

[balmy vine]

Gotta love how the spear cant be shield blocked or just how buggy shield block is in general lol

[ruby burrow]

dmg reduction needs nerfed on the fighter. shits a joke

[glacial zephyr]

Why only high roller. Normal lobbies as well. Maybe some poe/diablo-like bonuses etc.

[lucid musk]

Hopefully at some point some colorblind settings, especially with item rarity, or symbolism ie: a small diamond symbol per rarity left side of the item name box, with grey having none.

[feral quarry]

Colorblind setting would help my colorblind azz lot

[near mortar]

Suggestion: give bard a spell regen song

[plucky saffron]

Give Bard any reason to exist. They need to rework it completely so it can be viable as support over cleric in certain cases. Also solo playstyle should be implemented

[remote orbit]

What if double jump got changed to a wall jump