#suggestion-discussion

1 messages · Page 112 of 1

timber shore
#

Give it time dude. I understand trading right now is inconvenient but it's kind of a function of the playtest. When the game goes open access/live you will have streamer and discord communities where people post pictures of w/e god tier items they found and WTS - i'm sure of it. If you've got gold burning a hold in your pocket it will be easy to find a trading discord and buy something really nice with it.

atomic mountain
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10 minutes?! Dog you need to get like 10 pieces for a full set. Next playtest, we can race and see who get a full set faster, but 10 mins aint gonna be first place

wintry wind
#

I wonder how the talent trees will be.

wanton lintel
timber shore
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The problem with a listing-style AH is it kind of invalidates the space restrictions the Devs built into the player bank. That's why i imagine they wont make an AH. It's clear the Devs WANT players to struggle with inventory management. Inventory management is supposed to be a problem that you need to solve.

atomic mountain
cobalt obsidian
#

if you're looking for specific stats it can take a long time.

wanton lintel
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When I trade looking for blues, I'm aiming 100-200g for one good attribute and moving on. I'm not waiting for the perfect piece of gear with 3/3 perfect attributes and underpriced.

atomic mountain
cobalt obsidian
wanton lintel
atomic mountain
cobalt obsidian
wanton lintel
timber shore
atomic mountain
#

I'm not looking for crazy purples either. I usually just look for greens with ANY useful stat for my class because green gear ended up being the best bang for the buck because ppl overpriced higher rarities like the active stats didn't matter at all.

wanton lintel
atomic mountain
#

You put on good greens, you can easily wreck someone in trash purples given you have just slightly more skill

white cliff
#

You don’t need gear to wreck people honestly. Purples is where it becomes an issue for sure but until then you can basically risk nothing.

atomic mountain
timber shore
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What if Ironmace made two versions, one game with a fully fledged AH, and another with no AH, no trading, all loot is self-found but can be looted from dead players? Because this is what i see happening if they put in an AH. If trading becomes too easy/problematic the community will splinter with people calling for a no-trade server

wintry wind
#

Splitting the player base is a silly move

wanton lintel
atomic mountain
white cliff
cobalt obsidian
amber solstice
#

The devs implemented and like the current old time system for it's player interaction, not for any balancing reasons. Making gear harder because of a trade system that artificially limits your ability to obtain items to scrolling through text and click faster is bad. It's actually curbing the prices of things down, and rewarding the people that play Board and Boreder rather than entering a dungeon. Making things more expensive, which is what auctions will do, because players will drive up the prices to the fair market value, means more time spent in dungeons without that gear, rather than sitting there trying to outclick, not to pay a cheaper amount, but just to be the first one that the person accepted the trade of. Why should the ONLY part of the game that takes an arbitrarily significant amount of time be buying items better greens when everything else is so amazingly streamlined to maximize playtime.

The current system isn't even good at player interaction, is easily abusable and has already turned to cheese strats. It's a real possibility everyone just starts using automated scripts to offer trade instantly to each new line of text unless that becomes bannable. At the very least it needs more people to be able to interact with the seller at the same time. All the people saying pro-auctioners want cheap items when it's actually the anti-auctioners that want it just without being able to admit it. Pro-auctioners want to be able to pay the fair price for the item they want and get back into the dungeon. Thinking that everyone will just enter the dungeon instead of fully gearing up because of how bad the system is, is a bad take. It just gives the people that do a big advantage over the people that don't. And it incentivizes you to get every possible advantage to make sure you don't lose the good gear that you have. The wealth you accumulate from the dungeon matters less then the amount of time you are willing to spend in trade chat. That's just bad gameplay.

atomic mountain
white cliff
wanton lintel
# amber solstice The devs implemented and like the current old time system for it's player intera...

Allow me to make a hasty generalization: You're just a powergamer and like optimizing your character to the maximum and don't care about the trading system so long as you get the maximally powerful gear per your gold. You don't like the in-built inconvenience of having to trade and would rather just dump in gold, vend yourself some power gear, and go stomp people.

@atomic mountain I think you prioritize convenience more than more traditional/classic players.

timber shore
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i mean imagine if there's no trade system. yeah you could still trade by dropping items in game but you'll need to risk extracting safely, and if there's no trade chat it would be extremely annoying to look for items lol

white cliff
wintry wind
#

Wildy Handoffs

amber solstice
white cliff
atomic mountain
wanton lintel
white cliff
junior hawk
# wanton lintel Allow me to make a hasty generalization: You're just a powergamer and like optim...

Idk, Dolan has a point though.
There were multiple times where our party had to pause our dives in the dungeon just to sell the stuff that didn't fit inside the Stash.
I believe a system were you can put you item for sell would hasten play time and convenience.
That sounds more important that traditional trading.
But I also agree that trading with others in real time brings a certain charm and connection to the community.

atomic mountain
glacial sphinx
timber shore
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In fact, many times.. a good item will take up less stash space than the gold it's worth. So as i said previously, an AH only invalidates a system the Devs built into the game by design. The limited inventory is meant to be.. limited!

atomic mountain
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Market considerations were not at all part of the thought process behind trade chat (based on what they've said)

junior hawk
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Right...I forgot about that option.
You defiantly right about this, I even seen what you are saying in several MMO's where they post stuff for extra inventory.

white cliff
atomic mountain
timber shore
pliant reef
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Having infinite space AH would also allow lower rarity items to stay in the market instead of being replaced by higher value and higher rarity gear, which would also help solve the issue of newer/poorer players being unable to purchase new gear via trade because 100g doesn't go as long of a way anymore.

wintry wind
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I would like to see an improved filter and a way to mark items in Stash as "for sale" so they appear when filtered. Then folks can send offers to be reviewed later. It's not instant, it still has room for bartering, but you can mark an item then start delving again.

Much rather sift through a pile of offers between raids.

white cliff
atomic mountain
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Emotional connection is the devs main concern when they talk about player interaction. I don't see alot of great emotional connections being had in trade chat. I see it in the dungeon, with your party, and between other players.

glacial sphinx
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You will have 0 emotional connection to your gear if you can instantly buy and replace any piece with the exact same piece.

junior hawk
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I think the best solution is a improvement on the new sorting system on the trade chat that can target you stuff.
Spirit brings a big concern about AH with inventory.
The best way to make a AH then should be to lock one item in you stash and only be able to price it depending on how much space it takes.
Like a Rapier takes 3 inventory space, then you can only put it on action for 150G.
Maybe you can also add the posting fee on the price.
That AH system will get rid of few low value items while on the trade chat only the big value items are that go over thousands of gold.
This will solve the concern of Spirit and I believe it would be a welcome change.
What do you guys think?

atomic mountain
timber shore
wintry wind
glacial sphinx
pliant reef
# white cliff That’s not necessarily a good thing, I don’t want to be sifting through trash fo...

I am confused by what you just said. What is not necessarily a good thing? Having lower rarity gear stay in the market? That is a good thing because if all lower rarity gear goes away because it is replaced by higher rarity gear and there isn't enough space for the cheaper stuff, then poor and new players will be unable to interact with the market.

Your example just shows that people will price things foolishly high. That already happens in the market, at least with an AH you can sort for what you're looking for. And generally speaking people will post things at roughly correct market value way more often than they do now. I'm just really confused because I don't understand why you are using that example and also don't understand what point you're trying to make.

timber shore
# wintry wind I would like to see an improved filter and a way to mark items in Stash as "for ...

The way i thought about it is they could give players the option to 'unlock a merchant'. You pay 5000g or something and that allows you to list items for sale in your bank, and as long as players are online they can visit your 'shop' and buy from you while you're playing a game. But i'm worried about bots scraping data and building 3rd party sites which aggregate it, and i also think it wouldn't actually save time because you would be sifting through tons of stuff. So the only way it's functionally useful is if it is searchable/filterable - in which case it's an auction house

junior hawk
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The only time that I felt bad losing a gear is when I lost my cinder, the unique halberd.
But otherwise, epics and legendries weren't worth much emotional attention from me.

wintry wind
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I got emotional when I saw someone swing at Otto

atomic mountain
white cliff
amber solstice
# wanton lintel Your view simply strikes me as centered on getting good gear fast irrespective o...

My view strikes you incorrectly, as usual. My view is centered on maximizing dungeon time, which is something you personally attest to. It's kind of humorous that we both want the same thing, you just want what you think benefits your playstyle the most. I've literally never bought anything beside candy and ore. I've tried to buy nice things and been unable to even having 10k+ gold and 1k+ candy. I'm not the min maxer you wish I was. I craft with ore and gamble every item just to get rid of the gold I have no room for. I'd love no trade, solo self found, or zero to hero game modes. I give away most of the gear I find to friends. Every single part of this game is so devoid of useless downtime except when buying nicer items. If I'm willing to pay 10x asking price, if I'm not the fastest clicker, I lose. I have to keep waiting until I win Click Games 2023. The inventory restraints really solidify this. If my entire inventory is full of gold/candy, and I can't turn it into an item I want that I can afford in a reasonable amount of time, going into the dungeon is a lot less appealing. I solved this personally by just making and leveling another character because I love the gameplay and would happily start over with no perks to not have to worry about it. But that shouldn't be an intended game design.

There already is botting. There already is cheating. There will be with any and every system created unless each person has their own personal developer sitting on their lap monitoring them. The current system incentivizes clicking faster. You do that by not inspecting the item, just getting into the trade window and inspecting it there. It's toxic and only going to get worse. It's very easy to see how that will be abusable. You provide no evidence why or how one system is more abusable then the next. Auction houses being instantly bought by bots, where's their gold coming from? Or just allow for live auctions.

atomic mountain
timber shore
# atomic mountain That seems like another reasonable option

i'm jsut not really sure if that would be an improvement... like it would be more convenient for the seller, but not necessarily for the buyer. but idk it could be interesting. i used toplay FFXI (old MMO) and to avoid a trade tax from the AH, everyone with anything really valuable to sell would AFK their character outside of town. You could buy and sell items from inventory

glacial sphinx
# atomic mountain If you lose enough games you won't have the gold to replace lost gear anyways, I...

Hard to explain it I guess. You'd need to see the system you suggest in action to understand why it sucks so much. It was in Diablo 3 and it was so terrible they to remove it from the game to try salvage it. This game is about looting dungeons and getting out to make your fortune. If you make trading via AH a thing, it will not be that anymore, because the fastest way to make money will be playing the AH.

atomic mountain
timber shore
pliant reef
# amber solstice My view strikes you incorrectly, as usual. My view is centered on maximizing dun...

This is 100% accurate. I've had the same experience. And when I try to sell items I get instantly traded and about half the time the person doesn't even know what I was offering, it's really annoying.

I would much rather play the game more instead of deleting items or spending time trying to sell or buy items. I've had it before where I spent 10 minutes trying to find 1 small upgrade, and wasn't able to, I eventually quit trying because I didn't want to keep my party waiting. Same story with selling items sometimes. Not to mention if I have an item for multiple classes it takes so much longer to sell stuff.

It's just a poorly designed annoyance.

atomic mountain
# glacial sphinx Hard to explain it I guess. You'd need to see the system you suggest in action t...

The fastest way to make money is ALREADY trade chat. But that doesn't change the game into a market centric game. You can go watch a bunch of D&D videos and only very few will even mention that you can make money by trading. The market is not the focus of the game and likely never will be. Nobody is going to say D&D is the best game out RN because of trading, with or without an AH. The core gameplay is what shines, and adding a more robust and active trading system will not change that in the least.

pliant reef
glacial sphinx
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Nah it's correct and exactly what happened in D3.

quick blade
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lol my dog came over and nosed the enter key halfway through my auction house suggestion, now I have to wait six hours to finish it since there is no way to edit it.

glacial sphinx
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I mean your claim is completely without argument or logic and contradicts all evidence so why make an effort dismissing it further. Nah suffices.

timber shore
pliant reef
glacial sphinx
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Do you dispute point 1 or 2?

quick blade
atomic mountain
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Yeah but not every class can do troll runs, and you still have to make it out alive. It's fraught with much much more risk compared to just flipping items for a profit. Nobody is getting 1 shot in the trade chat my G lol

glacial sphinx
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You failed to read the suggestion properly. I specifically described what kind of AH I was talking about (WoW/ D3 style) to avoid misunderstandings. The very reason I defined what I meant with AH is because there are multiple interpretations possible when speaking about an AH and I wanted people thinking about the suggestion and the possible downsides of such systems to be on the same page. But you skipped over that I guess and pretend I can't come up with mitigating factors when I even mentioned those were possible in the suggestion itself.

atomic mountain
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You didn't say anything positive about an auction house that wasn't already true about trade chat. You basically just said "I don't want one cus I think there's no positive aspect they offer at all". I guess we should let Jeff Bezos and Ebay know how unhealthy their websites are for us all.

glacial sphinx
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Thought the upsides were obvious enough they didn't need to be repeated.

white cliff
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In a discussion about the validity of an AH, it’s probably best to include the pros, especially when others can’t find any.

timber shore
white cliff
glacial sphinx
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Instant convenient access to whatever you want, no trade time. Its very obvious but okay there it is. Now consider the less obvious downsides, the way it changes the game. The way it shifts the balance of what is the optimal way to gain funds.

#

Well you can't talk about an auction house if you don't have a shared concept of what it is. Which is why I referenced a very common system.

timber shore
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There's a lot of logistical issues too that most people aren't solving for. The Devs want bank space to be limited, and gold to be cumbersome. If you can list items for sale on a virtual AH, does it remove the item from inventory? If so that invalidates the games current design philosophy. Then what about gold? Many items have a gold value more than the space the item takes up in the bank. So can you only sell an item if you have the space for the gold? If you don't have space, do you lose the gold? This is a slippery slope towards players asking for infinite gold space.

#

Sorry, i don't think i understand what you're saying. Are you saying trading defeats the "limited space"? How?

pliant reef
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No, we have value by proxy, which is just annoying. Value by proxy makes the space limited by gold not an issue.

rocky field
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I don’t get why people are obsessed with the market being abuseable, this occurs in literally every game with trade. Yes, you can make a few k gold an hour. It’s also boring af and not something the majority of people would subject themselves to. Not to mention how it’s roughly equivalent to how much you would make in high roller with a good team or farming troll, which are both much more engaging. Even in games where you can make significantly more from crafting/trading than actual gameplay like poe, it’s not a problem because people would rather play the actual game.

atomic mountain
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8/10 of the ppl against an AH just want to be contrarians that have ptsd from previous games or are aftraid of change. They don't usually offer a more amenable solution they think would alleviate the problems ppl have with trade chat being extremely time inefficient.

I've been willing to admit they make good points, and I've gone even as far as to say 'well if trade chat is made good enough we won't even want one'. Yet none of the contrarians can stomach admitting that a well thought out AH system would be a reasonable addition to alleviate the problems that NOT having one is creating for a large number of players. Adding an AH and/or improving trade chat further is probably the most repeated suggestion other than "release the game now, I wanna play"

I keep hearing "well bots and market considerations".
I say, ok, good point and proceed to propose solutions to combat those problems and they jump to "well other games didn't do it right".
Then we explain that D&D is it's own unique game unlike anything we've ever had, and then they jump to "well it's intended to be painful, so just go in naked". It just never ends lmao.

#

If all you want to do is fear monger and be a contrarian through and through, you're not going to help the players that want to improve trading find a solution that satisfies as many ppl as possible

pliant reef
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AH just takes a ton of the annoying aspects of "gameplay" out of the game so we can play the fun parts more. It's actually just QoL at this point because gold is just transferred into high value items like candy or high value rings so it doesn't take up as much space. This whole limited space idea only causes there to be less low level gear making it harder for newer players to trade, and makes the game more annoying.

atomic mountain
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I'm not even mad or frustrated, I'm exhausted with how cyclical it is lmao

Even if gear is made easier to obtain it doesn't change the fact that it'll be just as easy to lose

glacial sphinx
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This isn't a game where you should be able to make money or get gear without risk. The effort and risk involved in trying to get treasure and gear is fundamental to its weight and value. In the cases where trading already allows this that's a bad thing, and an AH would exacerbate the issues to the extreme. You would need to add extreme trade fees or otherwise make it very unappealing

#

Then remove trade altogether, it is a better solution than adding an AH which would make it more trade heavy.

rocky field
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^ yes you have a few “hideout/trade warriors” This will always be a small minority of players unless the game itself is terrible (in which case you wouldn’t have ppl abusing trade anyways)

atomic mountain
timber shore
pliant reef
# glacial sphinx This isn't a game where you should be able to make money or get gear without ris...

I highly disagree that an AH would make this worse. An AH would regulate prices and make arbitrage less likely. It's also a moot point because we already have the possibility for arbitrage and nearly everyone plays the gameplay loop as intended, and not just playing the market to make money, so even if the possibility of arbitrage increases with an AH we aren't going to suddenly have everyone doing it. Every game has people amassing wealth, but few people like doing that.

rocky field
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Imo, since the devs do want player interaction, a market listing would work pretty well for dnd. The current trade system is the most primitive chat trade system, it’s not hard to improve on without going straight to an auction house.

atomic mountain
timber shore
atomic mountain
dreamy iris
#

aside fine tuning a couple things maybe adding a filter option for specific stats youre looking for in an item. idk what else is wrong with the current trading system. an AH will suck

rose sandal
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I took one look at the trading system and thought "I never want to use this in its current state"

pliant reef
rocky field
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Yeah, there is hardly interaction in trade anyways as much as they want to have player interaction, you can’t even say ty in the current system.

timber shore
pliant reef
#

The closest we get is in the dungeon itself and messing around with Otto. If they want more player interaction then they should remove the time sink that trading takes so we can be in the dungeon more where most of the best interactions happen.

How many videos have you seen of great player interactions in trade chat vs in the dungeon on VOIP? Just food for thought

dreamy iris
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from my experience with games involving AH systems the main reason is people want a trading system where they can go into it and be outta there in seconds and back into game lobbies

atomic mountain
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The devs care so much more about the emotional connection you get from being IN the dungeon. Anything they implement to increase this as a % total of how your time is spent will be a net positive in player interaction even with minimal loss in trading arbitrage

amber solstice
dreamy iris
#

people dont wanna sit for hours spamming their keyboard tryna sell niche stat items. I totally get where the argument comes from if anyone played a game like RS2 before G.E existed they know what im talking about lol

rocky field
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You never have actual interaction with trade, because players want to play the game (where you can focus on interaction because it’s the actual game). They want to get trade done quick so they can play the game

atomic mountain
rose sandal
timber shore
pliant reef
# timber shore Look i understand the frustration, but again... it's only a clicking minigame fo...

This is not true. We have had people in this chat, and I've had the same experience, of not being able to spend my money without spending 10+ minutes trying to get a trade.

An AH would standardize the prices, and the unlimited space would allow for more and lower value items to exist in the market at once. Unless you are suggesting that gear would be so scarce that the AH would be nearly empty at all times, then what you're saying cannot be true.

abstract swallow
# amber solstice Maybe each successful extract gives you 1 trade token. Use wisely. I'd be all ...

This is the closest alternative to "You get X Market Board slots, each one can only be used once every Y hours (including time listed)" I've seen, but I feel like it'd just lead to just slapping an item in after every extraction.
Any sort of unlimited/fully automated trade system is destined to absolutely rip this game's already unhealthy economy to shreds, but there needs to be something to allow people to passively sell less popular items but at a very throttled rate.

atomic mountain
rocky field
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Match making is not a good idea, goes against the base charm of extraction looters. As for universal block? Tf does this mean. We’ve asked for improved blocking and a way to stagger with block, which have both been highly upvoted.

glacial sphinx
dreamy iris
#

the other thing for me is wondering if putting work into an AH system is a priority rn to begin with

timber shore
# dreamy iris people dont wanna sit for hours spamming their keyboard tryna sell niche stat it...

The problem is you think your "niche stat item" is worth 500g, it's just not - lol. Yeah maybe it's good for a very niche build and maybe you can sell it for 500g to the right player but it's going to take you time to find that player. That's called opportunity cost. Is it worth your time to get a couple hundred gold more for an item, or are you better off playing the game? I get it though, you want to have your cake and eat it too. That's what an AH would do...

pliant reef
dreamy iris
rocky field
timber shore
# dreamy iris sorry ill change the wording. any item in general you have to put x amount of ti...

The problem is, if you have an AH and you give everyone the ability to list their "niche stat item" for sale... guess what happens to the supply of niche stat items? It goes wayyy up. And the price of those items will reach fair market value in accordance with demand, which is way below the asking price you wanted to begin with. So, it's not like an AH will let you sell niche items for more money xD

rose sandal
rocky field
pliant reef
timber shore
rose sandal
amber solstice
timber shore
white cliff
rose sandal
timber shore
atomic mountain
white cliff
amber solstice
#

Tarkov is the penultimate example of what having a good core idea and no competition looks like. Lead dev doing anything he wants with absolutely no consequences. Just deal with it.

pliant reef
rocky field
#

There is a big difference. It goes from trade chat (current system) to market listing to auction house. An auction house requires no player interaction, it’s basically players as a shop. A market board, ie warframe and poe, adds an extra layer inbetween. You can list items but you have to message them to buy them, thus you can still barter and have player interaction. It also acts as a natural barrier for instant trade, faster than chat spam but slower than an auction house. It is just the midpoint between AH and Trade chat. Now imo, an auction house is still superior, there is still little interaction with a market place but if devs really want interaction, it has more than trade chat spam and auction house.

timber shore
glacial sphinx
#

Both you and Cosmo should look up what penultimate means

wanton lintel
#

it's a cool word though

white cliff
#

It’s an ultimate pen no? 🖊️

Named unique?

rose sandal
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You could argue that they are using the word in the sense that it is the last in a series of quality because no other game could possibly be better, so it is the final form, or something.

amber solstice
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I have 5k hours in tarkov and haven't been able to play it since the first DnDer playtest I played.

dreamy iris
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how would yall want the AH to function? what kinda filter options do you want, how specific do you want it to be? do yall want stat filters as well?

wanton lintel
timber shore
# pliant reef They did, they have 100g after a successful extraction, and now cannot interact ...

Yes it is... if the game devs designed the game to be played a specific way. Just because you want to play it differently than they want you to, is not a good argument either lol. It's *THEIR *game, not yours. Anyway, you shouldn't be heading to AH after your literal first extract. You're supposed to store your extra gold in the bank and find items from the dungeon. Only when you have a lot of gold are you supposed to go the AH.

rose sandal
amber solstice
#

Last but one is second last.

nocturne gust
#

Last but one means last excluding one more

atomic mountain
#

Pen Pineapple Apple Pen

rocky field
#

This more similar to an auction house, a market place adds an extra layer. The item is listed, you now have to message the trader to buy the item. No instant trade. Again, I prefer instant trade as interaction in trade is non existent to me in any form of trade and instant trade is significantly faster than the rest, but they’ve mentioned they want interaction

rose sandal
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I have never used the phrase "last but one", but I accept this, with some indignation. Thanks everyone.

wanton lintel
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i think modern politics is less divisive than AH vs trade chat debates

amber solstice
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I'd really love for Ironmace to do polls when you log in.

rocky field
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I have never heard of a “central market” this seems to be a bdo special, but if you wanted to apply it, as it’s instant trade, it would be an auction house. A market place is similiar to an irl market place, you have to message the trader and ask to buy the item. Instant trade is the big divider

pliant reef
# timber shore Yes it is... if the game devs designed the game to be played a specific way. Jus...

I have no idea where you're getting this from. The current fastest way to progress in the game is to use the market as soon as you have a tiny bit of money because, especially while there is still room in people's stashes near the beginning of a playtest, decent greens and blues give huge power spikes with only a little bit of money. I'm saying it shouldn't be up to us to determine how new players ought to play the game. I'm saying that a new player will have less option with the current market once we are a month or more into the playtest because the limited storage space will cause less lower value items to be in the market.

cursive kayak
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They should make the trading channels separate by armor and weapons it's annoying that armor is being separated by different trade channels

amber solstice
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I was using it as Tarkov is shit and DnDer is BIS. lol

white cliff
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No it means my pen is in its ultimate form.

atomic mountain
rocky field
atomic mountain
white cliff
abstract swallow
# dreamy iris how would yall want the AH to function? what kinda filter options do you want, h...

I'd run a Market Board system like a lot of old MMOs used to have.
You get X slots to sell singular items, exclusively for gold. Sales are taxed with a %.
Posting an item to the Market Board removes it from your stash and locks it there for (8~24 Hours); if the item sells the slot remains locked for the duration.

The game simply can't tolerate an instant or high-volume trading system without completely changing the gear economy to match. Stashwiping seems to be intended as a real threat, and prices are heavily throttled by the limited space and trading throughput.

rocky field
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Central market that bdo has would be even faster than an auction house yeah, it would be like max bidding in an auction house every time to instant buy the item. But yeah, I definitely do not see that happening even though it is the fastest form of trade.

dreamy iris
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i mean isnt that what an auction house is? auctions is where you buy goods for the highest bid right?

atomic mountain
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What's wrong with bidding ? We already have that in a way with the way in which ppl try and sell items in trade chat

#

If they post 100g and get spammed, they repost it for 200g and so on. The only difference is it being hosted actively by the player or passively by the house for a set time

rocky field
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If we want to rank them off speed, it would prob be trade chat —> market place —> auction house —> market board (instant trade but limited) —> central market (instant trade but I think not rly limited?). As a player, a central market system would naturally be the fastest. But also, don’t think of an auction house as an irl auction house, you can buy items pretty quickly, compared to an irl auction house where you get into like hour long bid wars.

#

Market place is basically market board without instant trade. Would you prefer this over auction house.

dreamy iris
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no people want to be in and out

white cliff
rocky field
#

Ye, we’ll pretty much always prioritize speed. People recommend auction house because it still has some limitations. Game devs are hesitant to add unlimited instant trade like the central market youre talking about, its very rare. Auction house is usually the limit most go to, with devs that prioritize “interaction” going with a market place, and a trade chat is rarely seen, it’s just a prototype / unfinished system.

dreamy iris
#

speed and efficiency is the meta guys

dawn raptor
abstract swallow
# white cliff Another based and limited storage pilled believer, welcome to the club.

It's a cool design philosophy, I hope they stick with it.
A lot of people aren't used to running into these kinds of limitations in their games, and it shows, but I still think there's a lot of room for a secondary trading system that'll help move less popular or meta items (anyone that's tried to sell Wizard gear knows how well that goes).

tame pewter
#

for the single sword that allows you to parry suggestion they should use a bastards sword

rocky field
#

Yea, I naturally prefer it as well, instant trade with some limitations.

timber shore
# dreamy iris no people want to be in and out

And you can be in trade chat if you pay a fair price. For example, when i was selling my rings i listed some +2 agi blue rings in trade chat for 600g and got no requests after 30s-1m. Then i listed them for 550g, again no trades. But as soon as i listed them at 500g, i got spammed with multiple trades instantly. If you were willing to pay 550-600g for my agi ring when i first listed, you could have bought them uncontested. What do you think will happen on an AH? The exact same thing. Any rings priced at 500g or less will sell instantly. You can spam refresh waiting for underpriced rings to buy, or you can pay 550-600g for a ring now. Nothing changes. It's all supply and demand. But AHs are inherently easier to game, price fix, bot etc.

dreamy iris
#

lil side topic, i posted a suggestion on +all attributes stat getting nerfed. opinions?

timber shore
dawn raptor
#

gear should have the potential to be very strong. strong gear should be more rare. but we already know that will be the case.

abstract swallow
pliant reef
#

I'm okay with the market board too, my only concern now is with proxies being the way trades happen because trade windows being the size they are and gold stacks being the size they are. I still don't like the idea of high value trades using some proxy instead of gold for the trade to be made.

rocky field
dawn raptor
#

rarity (usually) gives you an extra stat roll. that's significant

abstract swallow
#

This is what really got my goat about gear last playtest
By the end of things our squad had a Fighter running a gold chestpiece and longsword while our Rogue was still in a bunch of greens and blues with +Damage and +All on them like it was a Fursuit for his Murdersona.

dawn raptor
#

Yes the roll failed. But the likelyhood of there being ways to re-roll affixes is very high. If you find an epic quality of a very good item type, you will probably be able to pay a significant amount to roll again.

atomic mountain
#

I could get behind a market board option Skele_ThumbsUp

rocky field
#

Limiting mods on less rare items would be a start and also the amount of useless mods you can get. Exactly astro, rarer items should be consistently better and it’s not happening because you have item equip speed, magic interaction speed, knowledge spell memory and % spell memory on a physical weapon. So many useless mods available that makes a good rare better than most blues.

timber shore
#

Why should rarity be inherently more valuable than it already is? Technically it already gives you higher base armor and weapon damage (which is valuable), but the enchantments are random. Higher rarity gives you more chances at rolling good enchants. It also gives you more enchants which raises the potential ceiling of an items power. What improvement are you suggesting?

dawn raptor
#

You guys need to play the basics to understand how this itemization is going to unfold

rocky field
#

Trim out the completely useless mods, rarity will naturally improve

timber shore
#

The value is in the enchantments, not the rarity. This is always how it is in these RNG-based games.

atomic mountain
dawn raptor
rocky field
timber shore
dawn raptor
atomic mountain
#

I like the rng of active stat roll possibilities, but I don't see eliminating trash gear from the pool to be a contentious issue fraught with problems lol

rocky field
#

Trimming out useless mods doesn’t mean you’ll only get + all stats movement speed etc. higher chance to yes, but you can balance this out by lowering mod rolls on lower tier items or removing powerful mods from low tier items. Knowledge shouldn’t be able to roll on an item that has zero use for it, magical interaction speed is fine to some extent since its at least useable

dawn raptor
#

Some of you would just rather trade item rarity (color) with affix roll rarity. but having both just creates the potential for godly items being exceedingly rare. also makes looting more addicting.

timber shore
#

if you look at 100 green/blue items and compare them to 100blue/purple items then on average, higher rarity items will be consistently better. what you're asking for is every item of a higher rarity to always be better than lower rarity items. okay, fine. then you know what they'll do to balance that? they'll decrease how common the higher rarity items are lol.

amber solstice
#

It makes items better more often, and then it also makes the next tier that much more likely to be better then the previous. So each tier below you are using is a bigger disadvantage if you are unable to get to the next tier.

pliant reef
#

I also suggest making it so that suffix ranges are better on higher quality items. For example a green weapon could have 1-3 + dmg, a blue 2-4, an epic 3-5, a legendary 4-5, a unique 5. As an example.

dense sand
timber shore
#

"trim out the bad mods", y'all are literally asking for power creep lol. the good mods are balanced by the bad mods. if you get rid of the bad mods they'll make the good mods less common

atomic mountain
rocky field
dense sand
abstract swallow
#

there, slapped in the Market Board suggestion so you all can get your dopamine slapping that thumbs-up button

pliant reef
#

I think that items of higher quality shouldn't always be better than lower quality, but rn it is too common that a lower quality is better than a higher quality. Things like a green leggings with +5 dmg often is better than an epic or even a legendary at times. I'd just like the range to be a bit more consistent within each rarity, but for some overlap to exist.

rocky field
amber solstice
#

It would probably be better if each mod had some sort of tangible benefit for each class, however small for less feels bad. Rather than elminating bad ones from certain pools.

dawn raptor
timber shore
# rocky field I said trim out the useless mods. Does spell capacity on a long sword do anythin...

the useless mods make the better mods more rare. they don't want items to only be able to roll good useful mods. they want epics with 3 useable stats to be rare. that increases their value. what you're suggesting would have the effect of increasing the overall power level of all items, which raises the floor and actually makes all items comparatively less powerful. if they increase the power level of items they will need to balance that by taking it away somewhere else

rocky field
timber shore
amber solstice
#

We also don't know if any weapon or piece of gear won't be used by another class or build in the future.

atomic mountain
rocky field
# timber shore that still raises the power level lol

Yes it increases it slightly. Do you think adding smth the equivalent of % item equip speed will raise power level to the point that it’s a problem. There’s not a massive difference between a + knowledge longsword and a % magical interaction speed longsword. One just feels dumb to be able to roll as it does literally nothing.

abstract swallow
#

Cool, feel free to throw your own concept into the ring
I promise I won't sue for copyright

amber solstice
#

Longsword Larry, Paladin and spell enjoyer will want those mods in the year 2024.

atomic mountain
#

I understood what @abstract swallow was explaining because I first read it here in this channel, but some might downvote it simply because they don't grasp all the concepts proposed

rocky field
#

A simple market board suggestion (instant trade listings with limitations) would have been better.

timber shore
rocky field
amber solstice
atomic mountain
#

For sure. I'm not saying you didn't understand it, I'm just pointing out others might DV it because they don't.

abstract swallow
timber shore
abstract swallow
atomic mountain
rocky field
dreamy iris
#

I definitely think itemization and the way rolls work needs to be worked on. I don’t necessarily believe majority of existing stats need to be removed. I like the RNG aspect of potentially winning roll lottery n rolling god tier stats on a neck/sword whatever. I do think trash rolled items deserve a higher purpose then selling off to npc vendors for measly gold pieces. If items like that are gonna exist then their should be a further discussion on additional systems like a salvage system where items can be torn down to materials which then can be used in crafting systems. I enjoyed the Diablo 3 salvage system personally

timber shore
amber solstice
#

Basically anything beside having a dungeon is still open to being balanced, adjusted, and replaced.

rocky field
pliant reef
#

I'll post it, let's draft it together.

Market Board System

A Market Board is a listing where you can browse by individual item type and directly purchase items from other players' market boards.

A Market Board let's you sell singular items exclusively for gold.

There should be a limited number of trades you can make in a certain period of time. Maybe by having a number of slots that stay locked even after the item is sold, or a maximum number of trades per day.

While the item is posted on your trade board it would be removed from your stash, but be locked there for the duration of the trade.

Anything to add or remove or change?

mental lance
#

I like trade as it currently is. Forces social interaction.

timber shore
atomic mountain
rocky field
pliant reef
atomic mountain
dreamy iris
#

@mental lance are you a classic Andy

timber shore
mental lance
#

Yes. Also shit affixes are good for gear imo. Makes good gear with good rolls even rarer.

rocky field
# pliant reef Edited

Btw, consider adding auction house and ask people to react with thinking so we can check for if people prefer auction house at the same time.

pliant reef
#

I would rather keep it to one suggestion, and then the AH suggestion and this suggestion can be compared later

dreamy iris
mental lance
# dreamy iris Your goggles gave it away

Yee I play 19 twinks.
Also market board, one item at a time is so miserable. Takes me like 1 minute to sell loot after a match right now. Would take forever if I could only list one at a time.

rocky field
# timber shore Do you understand that the purpose of some of these stats is simply to make the ...

How many times do I have to say this shit. +1 energy shield +1 life +10 armour are useless stats but they do something even if they’re marginal. Yes they are to make items weaker. But have you noticed that block speed (shit tier mod) can only roll on shields and not bow where the mod is literally useless. As long as it does smth at all, it’s fine. They vehemently avoid mods that do absolutely nothing and instead fill up the mod pool with trash mods that do barely anything. Do u understand? Same with diablo 3 and warframe filler mods > useless mods

amber solstice
#

They can remove them and then just have higher chances of no mod. They could even add negative mods to make good gear even harder to find. Bad loot is a tool to extend gameplay. Otherwise just design all your own gear to perfection and have no reason to loot anything.

mental lance
#

Negative rolls are something I would like added. Maybe have unidentified items that have a possibility to roll negative if you don’t identify them. Auto identify as soon as you exit the match.

leaden tide
# atomic mountain Green items became the best bang for the buck, unless you caught a good deal on ...

my suggestion should fix that but I guess the bot bugged
#1048762118255673428

"The gear gap will always exist (as it should, otherwise gear is irrelevant and looting / gold becomes entirely irrelevant outside of buying healing consumables) however, the gear stats needs a change so that it would increase the importance of higher rarity gear instead of the current system we currently have. (I could literally be in full green gear and still have a better set and better stats than a full legendary player since stat rolls are in theory the same) it could be as small as for example:

Weapon damage caps at 5 IIRC

Grey / White gear = Cap at 2
Green = cap at 3
Blue = Cap at 4
Purple = cap at 5

Either that or just doing like
Grey/white/green cap at 3
Blue/Purple = cap at 4
Legendary/Unique = cap 5

Or perhaps severely decrease the odds of getting high rolls in lower tier gear and increasing it slightly in higher tier gear.
So in theory, you could still have a very good green set that could be better than a full purple but it would be much more unlikely/harder and definitely no where near as common as it is now."

rocky field
#

Negative item rolls as a general item mechanic doesn’t feel great. Applying them to some specific rare items would be interesting. Ie an item that has a negative and a positive mod

quick blade
timber shore
# rocky field How many times do I have to say this shit. +1 energy shield +1 life +10 armour a...

Sounds like you're just OCD about the presentation. Or you don't understand that maybe they don't want to give you 3 useful stats on every epic you find because that would be imbalanced and introduce too much power creep. As a result they would have to rebalance the rarity of epics and make them much more rare. Or, they would have to make it so epic items can also roll 0, 1, 2 or 3 stats with 3 stat epics being the rarest. What you're asking for would require an entire rebalancing of loot.

pliant reef
#

Okay, I posted the market board idea to the suggests channel

rocky field
atomic mountain
timber shore
mental lance
#

How about reduced aggro range as a filler stat.

dreamy iris
#

maybe increasing items of purple/gold rarity having better chances of rolling atleast decent stats. if you want a high grade item based on rarity you should be guaranteed stats that atleast make it usable. getting 3 chances to roll a single stat on a purple is not that solution imo

amber solstice
#

It's literal layers of doing the same thing. Rarity, number of good mods, mod intensity, number of items available in a dungeon. I'm not saying they should. I'm saying that it's intentional to extend gameplay. They could do it in worse ways that feel worse. But dead mods on certain items might not be dead in the future with new classes or builds, or could be made useful. Equip speed being useless, as you suggest, is wrong. It can make the difference of you being able to swap your weapon or upgrade to someone else's gear that you killed and make the difference between you living or dying.

timber shore
#

i don't see any original solutions from the big brain guy

rocky field
dreamy iris
timber shore
#

bro that is literally the definition of power creep

mental lance
#

I managed to get pretty insane gear in one week so I think more filler stats need to be added to slow it down

timber shore
#

avoid power creep by making items more powerful Skele_ThumbsUp

mental lance
#

What if good gear required a higher level to equip. Like cant equip purples until level 20. Legendaries at 30. Uniques at 40. Or something like that.

abstract swallow
#

it's always a little funny to see people arguing about gear balance from step 1, it's like watching monkeys evolve in realtime

amber solstice
#

I say let me wield Fulgor with each limb and always have all shrines active. That's the balance I want. /s
Gotta make sure there are no bad mods on the Fulgors of course though.

atomic mountain
#

I like the notion of making changes that would help ensure a purple helmet is almost guaranteed to be better than a green, but I don't think the answer is to remove the rng of trash mods altogether. Would be kinda stale

graceful frost
#

@leaden tide your suggestion didn’t go through but that’s a great idea tbh

mental lance
#

I like the idea of whoever suggested letting higher rarity = higher possible roll. So blue could roll +2 all max and purple could roll +3 all max.

white cliff
#

Does anyone remember what the date for EA was? I’m spacing.

amber solstice
mental lance
#

Higher rarity = higher durability?

timber shore
#

90% of the time a blue weapon will have higher damage than a green weapon. the other 10% it might have equal damage (if the green high rools base dmg and the blue low rolls base dmg) given that a green can rool a maximum of 1 mod, and a blue a maximum of 2 mods, ON AVERAGE a a blue item will be better than a green item. maybe 10% of the time, a green weapon that high rolls base dmg AND also high rolls a good mod like +weapon damage, could be better than a blue weapon that low rolls wpn dmg and also rolls two mediocre stats

sonic saffron
#

dura isnt a thing...?

rough gorge
mental lance
pliant reef
amber solstice
timber shore
#

You actually just don't understand statistics and averages. 90% of the time, blue weapons will be strictly better than green weapons - which is exactly what you're requesting. Bleu weapons have 2 rolls at good mods vs just 1 AND higher base dmg. So over a large sample size they will be better.

dreamy iris
#

I wonder if theirs a stat that’s picked up the % of used/sought after vs unused/bad items. If I present 100 randomized items in front of you how many of those would be worth enough to sell in a traders market atm

graceful frost
graceful frost
# timber shore You actually just don't understand statistics and averages. 90% of the time, blu...

Except greens are much more common and can get good rolls. Also a blue can be a ton better than a purp or leg much easier and you get a lot more blues than purps. ( @amber solstice we aren’t taking weapons also the more reduced damage is almost nothing on every class. It Fighter. Wiz ranger rogue gear the resistance barely matters and the max your getting is like 20 percent the roles are much better

amber solstice
#

They could add increased durability AND reduced durability loss as two more mods.

timber shore
mystic sequoia
#

I think itemization is perfect as it, I don't see any reason to change it. In some rare cases Greens with top tier enchants (+3 all atributes, +5 wpn dmg) will be better than blues with junk rolls and similarly blues with top tier rolls will be better than purples with bad rolls - and I don't see anything wrong with that. Why is this a problem? If every upgrade in tier was automatically better than the previous it would just devolve into "get better color, equip better color"

sonic saffron
#

i really hope they don't put dura in this game.. ^^ i agree with matsume... didnt really see anything wrong with weapon or armor in terms of stats..

timber shore
pliant reef
mystic sequoia
sonic saffron
#

i would like to see a higher drop rate for greens vs grey/white though..

timber shore
graceful frost
# timber shore yes a really well rolled blue can have better enchants than a poorly rolled purp...

Again not talking about weapons. And it’s not comparing an outlier a blue with either weapon dmg or all attributes will be better than a purple without those 100 percent. The damage reduction is extremely low and more or less useless for classes other than maybe fighter or cleric. Don’t think you can even get 30 percent dr with max ranger or rogue or wiz gear. Also great roll blue with weapon dmg and attributes can be better than a unique. Say the difference in armor for a leather cap is like 10 rating between blue and unique and having plus attributes on that blue is infinitely better then that no role unique. Also purp has 1 more role slot so 50 percent higher chance for good roles, however blue is def more than 50 percent more common than a blue. Also a green is way more common than a purp and with weapon damage attribute or all attributes it is so much better

sonic saffron
#

however blue is def more than 50 percent more common than a blue. lol

leaden tide
pliant reef
# mystic sequoia isn't that just due to greens being much more common than purples though?

Yes, that's correct. The problem is that if 5 greens drop for every purple, let's estimate, idk the numbers, but it's probably even higher than that. Then you have 5 chances at a good prefix with a high suffix. That 1 purple that drops has 3 chances for that same roll. Certainly, the purple can roll multiple good prefixes with good suffixes, and that's what's makes them worth a lot, but that's an outlier, generally speaking, it is far more likely to find a green with a good prefix and good suffix than it is to find a purple with 1 good prefix and good suffix.

sonic saffron
#

id like to see them remove stats from cosmetics...

graceful frost
atomic mountain
#

This channel starting to look like Reading Rainbow

mystic sequoia
atomic mountain
#

I wonder if they'll add names for item rarities. Uncommon, Rare, Epic, etc

pliant reef
# timber shore that's a sample bias

What are you talking about? Remove my anecdote then and just look at the math with the assumption that more than 3x as many greens drop as purples, or more than 2x as many greens as blues. Which is a pretty safe assumption to make.

On average you will find more greens with a useful prefix and a high roll on the suffix,

#

I'm going to write this to the suggestions once I can... in 5 hours:

"
Make Gear Rarity More Important

Have the possible range of suffixes (the +X% for example) have a different floor and ceiling based on rarity.

Let's use leggings that roll + physical damage as an example.
If they are green have the range be +1-3.
Blue range should be +2-4.
Purple range should be +3-5.
Orange range should be +4-5.
And unique should just give +5.

This way a green might still be better than a purple, but the odds are that it will happen a lot less often, because it will be impossible for the green leggings to have +5 phy dmg, and the purple leggings to have +1 phy dmg and two worthless prefixes.

These numbers can be worked around for balance, and applied to every kind of prefix.

Prefixes are still random, the same as always.
"

mystic sequoia
# pliant reef Yes, that's correct. The problem is that if 5 greens drop for every purple, let'...

Yeah, but why is that a problem exactly? The way I see it, in most cases the higher rarity item has more base damage which can be considered as a guaranteed +wpn damage roll on a green weapon, and then it has 1 additional enchant so the odds will always be in favor of a random purple item being better than a random blue item. The problem is players go into trade chat and will only settle for a top tier green item with either all attributes or weapon damage and then they act pikachu surprised when most blue items they see aren't major upgrades 🤷‍♂️

timber shore
mystic sequoia
#

Can you explain why it "sucks"?

atomic mountain
#

I see the value in having more randomization for stat rolls, but I wouldn't mind more consistency as gear grade increases as well. Seeing a green sell for 500g because it has +3 all doesn't bother me, but it does seem a bit out of place

pliant reef
mystic sequoia
#

Yeah, why does that suck? When I get a bad green I just think of it like a white item. I honestly don't have a problem with it. Likewise when I see a bad roll on a blue I just don't pick it up and consider it like I would a white or grey item. Why exactly does it suck to have randomized rolls on items?

pliant reef
#

Here are some numbers.
LOOTTABLE:LION'S HEAD CHEST

Weapons: 36.4622%
3 - Common = 12.7627%
4 - Uncommon = 18.9627%
5 - Rare = 3.6456%
6 - Epic = 1.0912%

Armors: 32.9336%
3 - Common = 11.5276%
4 - Uncommon = 17.1276%
5 - Rare = 3.2928%
6 - Epic = 0.9856%

So we have about 6 times as many greens as blues, and 18 times as many greens as purples.

And this is from a Lion's head chest, the other containers are even more skewed in my favor.

This will cause way more useful greens than useful blues or purples.

sonic saffron
#

also .. how are you getting these numbers.. is it normal only or normal and high roller combined??

stray saffron
#

you defend that with you had bad luck. happens to the best of us

sonic saffron
#

obv the two would have different % rates..

mental lance
#

Lower rarity gear with good rolls means that the gear discrepancy would be lower since that gear is more common. Just makes that really really good legendary/unique rolls that much more rare

mystic sequoia
# pliant reef You are correct, on average a more rare item will be better than a less rare ite...

Drop chance for each rarity is different for each item type (gear vs consumables vs jewelery) AND is different depending on mob type (common vs elite vs nightmare skeletons) AND is different again depending on the container type (skeleton, mummies, reinforced chest, golden chest, boss) - you can look at the drop tables in the wiki for each container and see how the rarity distribution breaks down.

timber shore
stray saffron
#

rarity is based on luck, stats is based on luck. at the same time you could have an extremely good one too. that's RNG for you, nothing should change there

pliant reef
# timber shore that's by design. because of the higher ceiling on items with more mods they nee...

I am not talking about a blue that has 2 good prefixes with both having good suffixes. I am talking about a blue that has a good prefix but low suffix roll and the second prefix being useless being way too common when compared to the number of greens with a good prefix and good suffix, making the green item better. We could technically do the math but in simple terms 6 greens X 1 prefix/suffix combo gives 6 chances at something 1 good roll, and 1 blue (because 1 blue item drops for every 6 greens at a minimum) X 2 prefix/suffix combo gives 2 chances at 1 good roll, and 1 very low chance at 2 good rolls.

mental lance
#

Does throwing something on a trap trigger it? Would be cool if it did. Throw torches on them

sonic saffron
#

^ yes and same if a mob dies on it

stray saffron
#

take gambling, does the odds need to be in your favor? if it were it's not gambling is it?

pliant reef
# timber shore do you know what the drop chances are for the different rarities?

I linked it in my above message.

Here are some numbers.
LOOTTABLE:LION'S HEAD CHEST

Weapons: 36.4622%
3 - Common = 12.7627%
4 - Uncommon = 18.9627%
5 - Rare = 3.6456%
6 - Epic = 1.0912%

Armors: 32.9336%
3 - Common = 11.5276%
4 - Uncommon = 17.1276%
5 - Rare = 3.2928%
6 - Epic = 0.9856%

So we have about 6 times as many greens as blues, and 18 times as many greens as purples.

And this is from a Lion's head chest, the other containers are even more skewed in my favor.

This will cause way more useful greens than useful blues or purples.

mental lance
#

^ which means more friendly to new players.

stray saffron
#

no i'm saying you shouldn't take RNG out of the equation just because the rarity goes up.

the only thing about gear that needs a change is that higher quality needs a slight shift in the modifiers it can get to make them have a better potential than the lower tiered gears

mystic sequoia
#

Sorry but that just doesn't bother me. Maybe it has to do with growing up playing games like diablo where this was a feature. Personally, I like the idea that a Green item can better than a Blue item, or that a Blue can be better than a Purple. It makes me actually look at the item and it's rolls in order to evaluate whether it's an upgrade or not. I prefer that to the alternative being "purple always better than blue, blue always better than green" because at that point you stop actually looking at the items that are a lower rarity than what you currently have on you and it just becomes a lot less engaging. Personal preference I suppose. 🤷‍♂️

atomic mountain
mental lance
#

They should just have a +1 or +5 in the item name to indicate how many rolls it has. Arming Sword +5

stray saffron
timber shore
# pliant reef Here are some numbers. **LOOTTABLE:LION'S HEAD CHEST** Weapons: 36.4622% 3 - C...

18.96/3.64 is closer to 5x not 6x. And as you know blues can roll 2 mods versus just 1, so you're twice as likely to find any specific mod on a blue item than a green. Which means any individual mod is just 2.5 more times common at green than blue. This also assume there different item mod weights applied to different rarities (+attributes might be more common on blues/purples than greens - probably not but we don't know). Anyway blue items have the ability to be much more powerful than greens. How much more powerful is a +3 all attribute, +wpn dmg blue than a +3all attr green? Is it 2x as powerful? 2.5x? 3x? It's hard to say objectively unless you're running everything through a simulator. Anyway at 2.5x it seems fairly balanced to me.

atomic mountain
pliant reef
# mystic sequoia Drop chance for each rarity is different for each item type (gear vs consumables...

I did, I showed you a lion's head chest, which has a pretty good chance for blues and purples in comparison to a lot of other loot tables. Also, a vast majority of people are playing norms instead of HR. I think my numbers prove my point. Way more greens with a good prefix/suffix roll are going to created compared to a blue or a purple with a single good prefix/suffix roll. It's not about the 90% of blues are better than 90% of greens, because they don't drop at the same rate, so we can't take percentages to look at this matter. I would prefer if I see a purple it should likely be better than the last 18 greens I looted, and that just isn't the case, it isn't even close.

rocky field
regal lotus
#

I think there should just be more controlled suffixes, it feels terrible getting a magic dmg purple barb chest or a phys dmg wizard hat, etc

stray saffron
#

they already have an consistent increase cause without modifiers rarity has it's differences. it's just that modifiers play too much of a roll currently making green so much better most of the time. if they tweak those values to slowly go up with min and max that would fix this green over purple issue

glacial sphinx
#

Think its already decent, blue is on average better than green because it has an extra roll and higher base stats, but not always because two bad rolls +better base stats CAN be worse than a single very good roll.

mystic sequoia
#

I mean, you can do that right now in it's current state too. You just have to take one rarity lower into consideration. Again, I don't really see it as a 'problem' just one more thing to consider

timber shore
rocky field
# timber shore And what about in B3?

Summary:
Weapons: 17.507%
2 - Poor = 9.3744%
3 - Common = 5.1842%
4 - Uncommon = 2.5914%
5 - Rare = 0.3402%
6 - Epic = 0.0168%
Armors: 41.8474%
2 - Poor = 22.0968%
3 - Common = 12.5902%
4 - Uncommon = 6.2934%
5 - Rare = 0.8262%
6 - Epic = 0.0408%

#

Blues don’t have to be much better, slightly better odds would be nice. A few x difference is massive when you take trade into play.

mystic sequoia
#

and here is Golden Chest High Roller

Summary:

Weapons: 45.5202%
    3 - Common = 2.5872%
    4 - Uncommon = 18.0774%
    5 - Rare = 15.8169%
    6 - Epic = 6.7782%
    7 - Legendary = 2.2605%
Armors: 40.0026%
    3 - Common = 2.2736%
    4 - Uncommon = 15.8862%
    5 - Rare = 13.8997%
    6 - Epic = 5.9566%
    7 - Legendary = 1.9865%
Jewelry: 11.709%
    4 - Uncommon = 4.9302%
    5 - Rare = 4.3137%
    6 - Epic = 1.8486%
    7 - Legendary = 0.6165%
Other: 2.7588%
    3 - Common = 0.1568%
    4 - Uncommon = 1.0956%
    5 - Rare = 0.9586%
    6 - Epic = 0.4108%
    7 - Legendary = 0.137%
Nothing: 0.0185%
pliant reef
stray saffron
#

i don't see your point cause it does go up like you say.
the modifiers are the issue at the moment, i just don't want it to become a thing where it's Oh a blue, always better than my green type of thing

atomic mountain
#

Nobody wants spell casting speed on a longsword or a measly +1% dmg reduction buff on an Epic, and I think that's the core of the pro argument for modifying stat rolls

timber shore
rocky field
mystic sequoia
stray saffron
rocky field
atomic mountain
glacial sphinx
#

What exactly is the point of listing droprates, I don't think just because something has a 50% lower droprate it should be 2x stronger.

timber shore
stray saffron
#

but that's already how it is, without the modifiers you take blue over green. it's the differences in modifiers where you could go "oh this green is actually better to keep"

rocky field
mental lance
#

What yall think about potions/bandages stacking to 5 instead of 3?

mystic sequoia
#

A Blue of the same base type IS better than a green of the same base type 90% of the time if not more. The problem is you are rocking greens with top percentile rolls like +3 attributes or +5 wpn dmg then comparing it to the average blue. And yes, as Misery points out, because greens are so much more common than blues it's easier to find a top tier green than an above average blue.

pliant reef
# mystic sequoia and here is Golden Chest High Roller Summary: Weapons: 45.5202% 3 ...

Most people run normals, not high roller. Most of the greens and blues dropped are from norms. Sure HR will move the number up a little, but barely. Look at the mobs in HR like elites and nightmare instead since we kill and loot way more of them then lion's head chests.

Elite skele footman - 2.3x
4 - Uncommon = 18.0208%
5 - Rare = 7.5872%

Nightmare skele footman - 1.8x
4 - Uncommon = 24.0504%
5 - Rare = 13.2912%

We are still getting like 6-10 times more greens than blues dropping if we consider that most drops are from norms.

atomic mountain
glacial sphinx
#

@pliant reef whats your argument with listing droprates?

timber shore
mystic sequoia
rocky field
#

Point we’re making with drop rates is that a massive # of greens are better than blues, which is exacerbated by the market place which I’m pretty sure you’ve experienced if you played the game

stray saffron
#

yeah that's why tweak the modifier so that the minimum of green is lower than the minimum of blue same as the maximum but not to a degree that blue is that much better than green so green is always worse. let RNG do it's thing there

rocky field
#

We’ve never said that blues need to be better than greens, just not have the disparity be so low that you frequently use greens instead.

glacial sphinx
pliant reef
# glacial sphinx <@165222002544738305> whats your argument with listing droprates?

I don't like how common it is for a green to be better than a blue or purple. I don't mind that it happens sometimes, but it happens way too often. My proposal is to have the suffix ranges be dependent on the rarity of the item, while prefixes remain random as is.

Let's use leggings that roll + physical damage as an example.
If they are green have the range be +1-3.
Blue range should be +2-4.
Purple range should be +3-5.
Orange range should be +4-5.
And unique should just give +5.

mystic sequoia
atomic mountain
#

Especially when you consider that sure they can have two rolls vs one, but they can also have lower or higher rolls of the same stat

timber shore
mystic sequoia
#

Assuming the odds for each enchant are the same regardless of rarity, then yes, in most cases the average blue will be better than the average green because not only does it get an additional enchant but it also gets an increase in base damage or stats which can be looked as an additional enchant

pliant reef
rocky field
pliant reef
timber shore
# pliant reef I don't like how common it is for a green to be better than a blue or purple. I ...

To be fair, i don't hate your idea. You're basically asking for a tier system the way PoE has it, where item rolls are gated by item level. I'm just going to point out the fact that this would probably decrease player power level on average in Normal modes and would actually widen the imbalance between players that spend more time in High Roller or delving into B3. The result is the weaker players will be weaker and the stronger players will be stronger.

atomic mountain
pliant reef
glacial sphinx
atomic mountain
mystic sequoia
# pliant reef I'm not arguing about drop rates. I'm arguing that due to how the math works out...

You are right. Now imagine that more players start playing high roller or entering B3 and as a result those players stop bringing greens out of the dungeon and instead start bringing only blues and some purples out too. All of a sudden the entire dynamic changes simply based on how much of the player base is going deeper or into harder game mods - which they will eventually do once the game is released and they have enough experience under their belts to survive those higher game modes. Which is why we should be careful making decisions based on these playtests.

pliant reef
timber shore
#

it's possible that the current drops and rarities are balanced for the future difficulty increase

wanton lintel
#

this reminds me of that episode of spongebob, right

where spongebob throws a party

and he plans out how everyone should have fun to the minute

and nobody is having fun

and for one reason or another he gets locked out of his house and stops controlling the party

and everyone starts having more fun

because less controls were implemented by the sponge overlord that was trying to command people to have fun by controlling and restricting them

(@ tiered matchmaking / gear score / similar ideas)

mystic sequoia
#

let's be honest with ourselves, if the game was out already none of us would be having this discussion and we would instead be playing the game

wanton lintel
#

in this analogy, ironmace locked everyone outside of their house of fun

stray saffron
atomic mountain
mystic sequoia
#

you can catch me in the high rollers B3 with my white recurve how bout dat

wanton lintel
#

survival bow take it or leave it

half orbit
#

Going into high roller with any gear whatsoever is for degenerates

timber shore
wanton lintel
#

starter survival bow and all armor is +resourcefulness

white cliff
pliant reef
timber shore
#

what do y'all think if they let rogues use survival bows? 🤔

stray saffron
junior hawk
atomic mountain
mystic sequoia
#

I would be okay with giving rogues either the hand crossbow or the survival bow but I know a lot of players would be against that

pliant reef
junior hawk
#

I mainly worry if the arrows will apply poison or not.

mystic sequoia
stray saffron
#

i just don't think a rogue needs any form of consistent ranged like a ranger or fighter does, they're meant for a stealthy stabby class

junior hawk
#

Yeah, that would be a nightmare

timber shore
atomic mountain
#

They've already teased a slingshot or sling type of weapon. I'd imagine that would be an all class type of utility weapon though with limited uses like throwables

mystic sequoia
#

I think a blowgun shooting poisoned tipped darts would be hilarious though

timber shore
stray saffron
pliant reef
# timber shore also, be mindful of what happens when they introduce B1. If B1 drops are mostly ...

That sounds like a balance issue. My change would make greens less powerful, and blue and purple progressively more powerful. There are certainly some balance consideration, but the balance is not in a good place and it's pretty early to tell how things will go.

I'm just talking about how bad it feels that there I have 3 greens in my inventory with 1 good roll, and so many blues and epics I find can't match up, so I'm wearing mostly greens. Same thing with how the market looks.

junior hawk
#

How about some sort of Repeater Crossbow?

rocky field
mystic sequoia
#

Blowguns and Blowdarts, cmon

white cliff
#

Not every class needs a ranged option?

timber shore
#

maybe they'll give bard access to survival bow? did they say what weapons bard will use?

wanton lintel
#

every class has ranged btw. If you haven't stopped to consider it yet, every class does, in fact, have ranged weapons.

Judgement*

atomic mountain
tranquil dagger
#

blowguns and throwing stars

stray saffron
rocky field
white cliff
stray saffron
wanton lintel
#

I want to see a full consumable build. Explosive bottles, throwing knives, blue pots, white pots, oil lantern (throwable now), and more

Judgement is pretty strong, especially at low levels though

atomic mountain
#

Judgement also can't really be used in lieu of a throwable for chasing down (or peaking+poking) a target more than 10ft away.

junior hawk
#

Just use bind and Judgement. Works quite well

rocky field
atomic mountain
stray saffron
rocky field
#

They don’t do much against shit like a minotaur

atomic mountain
stray saffron
wanton lintel
#

I wish more clerics used bind, but tbh it's weak in comparison to the alternatives. I think the devs overestimated how much people would value the CC

junior hawk
rocky field
glacial sphinx
junior hawk
#

I kinda want the devs to put more charges on bind.
What I always do when someone is rushing me, is to:
Bind, Judgement and then Bind again.
It saves you from the rushing fighters and barbs

atomic mountain
rocky field
stray saffron
atomic mountain
#

I wonder if it'd be too broken to make spell capacity increase your available options on a spell memory wheel from 5 to 6 or more

rocky field
junior hawk
#

I run it because I experienced that 3 buffs are kinda too much. Takes a while till you cast all those

stray saffron
rocky field
stray saffron
atomic mountain
rocky field
stray saffron
junior hawk
#

I would recomment it as it's a safetly net against rushing barbs and fighters, keeps them at bay for quite a bit for you to distance yourself a bit more and waste few seconds of their movespeed buffs.
I personally found no room for sanctuary and resurrection... 2 heals and 2 buffs with bind to maximize PvP.

wanton lintel
glacial sphinx
#

think another .25 or so and bind is pretty good, maybe 0.5 for slow

timber shore
#

y'know i just thought of another reason i don't like the idea of an AH with searchable mods... if you play PoE you're probably familiar with PoB.. what if someone creates a DaD PoB and suddenly you can simulate the exact stat allocation/item build/BiS item list. If you can do that then an AH kind of enables that behavior.

wanton lintel
rocky field
glacial sphinx
#

Don't like giving melee more range capabilities. Already have issues with barbs spamming franciscas like crazy. I think if there are pve issues they should be solved by making rogues better at it via their melee

rocky field
timber shore
wanton lintel
quick blade
junior hawk
#

Those rogues were poking our back side and now you guys want to give them the ability to poke us from afar?
The main problem with giving them a bow, is the actual existence of Rupture.
A survival bow is fast and it would totally work with Rupture.
Heck, even the Debuff would work from range.

stray saffron
# rocky field Yes, so give smth rogue for rogue to do. Rogue cant easily backstab when a tank ...

i disagree. let's take the troll for example. Best class was ranger hands down because they had the most access to the head, then comes rogue because of their dot damage, then barb and fighter and down the line cleric and mage. that's because that one was designed to be solo.

for the tank issue that's a aggro issue which is currently bad because how people can body block minibosses using it. a rogue does not need a range primary as they can apply weakpoint and rupture from long range that way same as how throwing knifes does. if you give a rogue a bow they just become a ranger

rocky field
#

Pvp balance can be addressed but currently rogue is shit in pve.

timber shore
rocky field
junior hawk
#

They didn't do it by fighter, why should they do it on rogue?
I mean, they could do that, but at this point why give them such a poking stick?

stray saffron
junior hawk
#

Btw, out of curiosity as I never bothered to do the troll boss.
Can a wizard kill the troll?

rocky field
stray saffron
junior hawk
#

I am guessing they are using rondel to do it?

stray saffron
rocky field
stray saffron
stray saffron
rocky field
stray saffron
junior hawk
#

I think tanking in general isn't suppose to happen in the first place as in taking hits.
More like taking the aggro of mobs.

abstract swallow
#

"Tanking" isn't really a thing in PvP, space control and trading hits is.

rocky field
stray saffron
rocky field
junior hawk
#

I don't find rogue that bad in PvE as he is fast and can dodge hits easier while also can get closer to mobs.
Though they might be the only class that shouldn't be able to kill a centaur without any cheese.

stray saffron
rocky field
#

You’ve already said barb is equivalent to a rogue in dmg lol. Except rogue is squishier in a pve situation. Are we moving to if fighter needs taunt now?

abstract swallow
safe silo
#

rogue players require skill and kiting expertise. barb players have craniosynostosis

rocky field
stray saffron
rocky field
hoary shard
#

@safe silo ur suggestion sucks balls

stray saffron
# rocky field Yes, so you agree that they should fix 180ing off the tank.

yeah and the way to do that would be to give the tank a higher aggro range or increase more every time they hit. it's like WoW deathknights where if they're unholy don't get much aggro unless their damage exceeds compared to the tank but in blood get more aggro from their attacks.

in DaD all there is for aggro is a taunt that's unused as it doesn't do anything for pvp

rocky field
#

Imo, they should have some turning radius and not have mobs insta 180 on you, higher aggro on hit passive could work as well or give rogue lower passive aggro when attacking. All will naturally make rogue much more useful in pve

stray saffron
hoary shard
stray saffron
hoary shard
stray saffron
stray saffron
safe silo
hoary shard
rocky field
stray saffron
#

guys both stay respectful atleast, there's always a block option or can ignore them. if they get out of control contact a warden.

@rocky field yeah i'm happy they are, like the pavise cheese is just horrible to look at, same with the elevation issues with a wraith. but yeah blocking isn't cheese, but when it's pure body blocking that's something different

brittle swift
#

why is editing set at 6h? in suggestions

rocky field
#

Yea, troll is still kinda cheese but they responded to ppl crouching very quickly by making him overhand more so now it takes a bit more skill. I have confidence that they can work out all the cheese.

It’s so you make more thoughtful suggestions @brittle swift

brittle swift
#

okey but i want edit, like im testing it

rancid pebble
#

You can edit them

stray saffron
rancid pebble
#

Fighting ai in video games naturally leads to algorithmic attack patterns, calling anything cheese is kind of silly

rocky field
brittle swift
stray saffron
rocky field
eager sableBOT
#

suggester_x This command has been disabled on this server

stray saffron
#

just going to have to wait to edit your suggestion, that's why it's important to formulate it well and can use this channel to get some feedback on your idea before you post it

smoky yoke
stray saffron
#

can't even from the make-suggestion section?

hoary shard
#

you can edit a suggestion in make-suggestion with the command they present

neat horizon
#

man i hope they fix the future playetests and remove the 'naked meta'

smoky yoke
#

the command has been disabled

#

feel free to try

stray saffron
#

aaah that's good to know, now got to be more careful with how you present the suggestion

smoky yoke
#

because people were trolling with suggestions
baiting people for thumbs up and then editing the suggestion completely to something else

like don't add p2w stuff
almost all people voting positively

then they edit

add p2w stuff
while keeping the positive thumbs up

atomic mountain
stray saffron
#

oh yeah that makes sense

neat horizon
#

being naked is meta and its a problem since in a looting game like this you should be rewarded for finding good gear including armor but speed is even more important so they just drop everything

mental lance
#

don't hold the next play test during Coachella weekends please
This suggestion is kinda trueee

hushed dragon
#

I have a suggestion:

Sort items within shop by rarity and/or attributes.

atomic mountain
#

Being naked is not the meta of dark and darker. having good gear is. but starter gear is objectively not as good as being naked for certain classes. doesn’t mean it’s a whole game design issue just means that certain people value move speed over others because thats more valuable to the effective playstyle of the class. (When grays offer very little protection and come with a lot of slowdown)

hushed dragon
mental lance
#

ye. early access might overlap with EDC vegas tho

neat horizon
stray saffron
atomic mountain
#

If you’re just gonna link a video instead of explaining your position I could easily link the video I’m watching right now on Apollo and show you how because of his gear he’s able to nuke a three man with one magic missile spell

neat horizon
graceful frost
atomic mountain
#

And I actually commented on the video you linked and proposed possible solutions to the supposed problem

main bear
#

The naked meta is silly why would having armor make you worse off kinda defeats the point

rocky field
#

I think what he’s trying to say is that gear relies on enchantments not armour values. Which is true for everything except arguably plated gear. There’s little point in wearing grey/white/green(shit stats) leggings.

mental lance
#

You're way faster with good armor equipped anyway

atomic mountain
#

Yeah sure it’s silly but it’s also fine lol it’s not a plague to the game or offensive

atomic mountain
mental lance
#

I played rogue so maybe its different

rocky field
neat horizon
atomic mountain
#

So what silly is good silly is funny silly is variety

rocky field
#

You could take -5 move speed off gear, naked is still better vs white, but you don’t need nearly as good stats

stray saffron
#

well there's funny silly and there's zoomies. you need to give them a reason to put on gear

neat horizon
#

I'd maybe accept the naked meta if this game was a battle royale but its a dang looting game where you earn strong gear

gray vessel
#

@neat horizon Why does it effect you so much? People start with a natural -10% PDR, so if they take their gear off you literally do bonus damage to them. They are SO EASY to kill.

rocky field
#

They are incredibly easy to kill with white gear on anyways

stray saffron
#

don't think it's a problem of them being easier to kill, it's more the issue when they have gear they oneshot while they just zoom around naked

neat horizon
atomic mountain
neat horizon
atomic mountain
neat horizon
gray vessel
rocky field
#

With a fighter you do want to use white plated gear because you can actually get significant pdr so you chose a bad example, and you have swift as well

#

For every other class, including cleric plates, you don’t get enough to warrant wearing them

atomic mountain
harsh belfry
#

Ive been catching up on the susggestions list and i see a few talking about better targetting for heals. I don't know about the rest of you but I like that the enemy healer can wiff there spell if i put them in a panic.

gray vessel
atomic mountain
#

Yeah being able to lock on to people with your support character just takes all the skill expression out of being a good support.

Communicate with your team land your spells, Don’t look For an external solution to a problem that is internal

rocky field
stray saffron
#

gear has 3 issues, too much damage scaling, too much speed difference and not enough value to defence. do i think a fighter with high armor needs a speed disadvantage? yes, but at the same time the damage shouldn't be enough to one or two shot said fighters while the other classes strip their speed debuff cause now you force the fighter to do the same.

junior hawk
harsh belfry
harsh belfry
atomic mountain
#

The hit boxes on terrain are superb, not sarcasm

harsh belfry
stray saffron
#

i do agree with corpses shouldn't be able to be targeted but other than that i didn't have any issues when healing with a cleric due to hitboxes

gray vessel
#

its pretty noticeable on bow users sometimes when your arrow gets caught in nothing and it floating above the terrain lol. Otherwise I never really noticed it

junior hawk
#

Mhm... somewhat. But there is other stuff too. Like I said, what you mention effects the standing torches and other stuff that is in front of you.
But there are other cases were you front is clear, but the terrain somewhat screwed you over and refuse to cast the spell on others, casting to yourself in turn.
Had it happened to me more that once and is extremely annoying.
I am not totally sure what is causing this, but it's a real problem.

harsh belfry
rocky field
atomic mountain
#

It’s always a range or a targeting issue with the player

pallid lichen
atomic mountain
#

Casting a spell doesn’t immediately hit scan when you let go of right click there is a bit of an animation time there too so it just takes practice and getting used to it

stray saffron
rough gorge
#

honestly I would have it while you are charging a buff or heal , fires like normal but for self buff allow us to just right click to apply it, and just the release like normal to fire as usual

harsh belfry
stray saffron
pallid lichen
junior hawk
#

It's kinda hard to explain as I don't know the specifics of the bug, but it really is there.
Once on the mummy room, at one of the paths, my barb wanted to break a door and I wanted to buff him, but I was standing on some rumble to the corner of the path and had clear vision in front. Despite that, the buff went towards me.

stray saffron
junior hawk
#

I mean... the path is pretty narrow and he wanted to break a door. I doubt that he was zig zacking while swinging his axe.
If it didn't happened more that once, I would had dubbed it as just me being bad. But it happend more that once in the play test, enough to be noticeable
But it was in such a situation that the protection should definitely had hit the barb

rocky field
gray vessel
#

I think once they fix the fact that agility wasn't giving move speed it should be all good. That way gear can have +flat movespeed, +% movespeed, +agility, and +all stats. All to counterbalance the -speed of it

neat horizon
#

the downvotes are pouring in xd. what else could I expect from this community

atomic mountain
neat horizon
rocky field
atomic mountain
neat horizon
gray vessel
# neat horizon the downvotes are pouring in xd. what else could I expect from this community

I think the main problem is that your suggestion is saying 'This is how it WILL be if you upvote.' Rather than just being a suggestion that allows the developers to make their game. I.e. "- no there wouldn't be such a thing as overheating so don't worry about being too warm."... Plus the fact that this isn't a discord full of people who want realism pve adventure. Many people are worried about keeping the pvp balanced.

atomic mountain
#

The whole point of this channel specifically is to discuss suggestions people have thought of but I have yet to chop up with other players who might bring up good points that the original author didn’t think about

That way you can add in or remove certain parts of the original idea so that it’s more logical and has more appeal to a wide variety of players

neat horizon
#

im listening

rocky field
#

You don’t need to add much, the more ideas you add, the more consistent it needs to be, if one part is disliked, then it’ll be disliked

stray saffron
#

instead of a things to stop the naked meta you could make it a suggestion for a new map type, where you fight in a snowy area or something like that. just throwing a temperature mechanic itself into it doesn't make a lot of sense.

atomic mountain
tribal sand
#

Arrows from rangers drop off too fast. Change my mind.

stray saffron
gray vessel
#

Plus we want the devs to focus on the best suggestions. A temperature mechanic is a lot of work for the devs that could postpone the final product. All for very little benefit of realism and "anti-naked-meta".

neat horizon
tribal sand
#

Drop makes sense but I should be able to shoot more than 20 feet without it dropping at all...

amber solstice
stray saffron
gray vessel
quick blade
neat horizon
#

when I was playing ranger I had ni problem with falloff and had a bigger problem with timing them so I can hit a moving enemy so as you can see even someone as bad as me with ranger likes falloff lmao

stray saffron
#

btw monty there's some thing that don't make sense in your temperature suggestion. B3 you'd have to strip down cause too warm and the circle being colder while it's technicly bugs swarming and slowly devouring you and further slows you down while you have to go through it sometimes?

amber solstice
#

I remember first playing a ranger, shooting at people and the arrow only going half the distance to them, and hating it. But played way more and it just becomes natural.

neat horizon
stray saffron
tribal sand
#

I liked the way it was the playtest before this last one. Felt more natural

#

I'm used to drop...arrows in rust drop..the drop in this game just feels like too much gravity lol

stray saffron
neat horizon
tribal sand
#

They are kinda...you have to reload mid fight already pretty often.

stray saffron
rocky field
#

Limited arrows nerfs pve mainly not pvp,

tribal sand
#

If they shot like they used to and your quiver held 10 but you had to collect arrows Id be fine with it.

misty barn
#

mmmmm

neat horizon
tranquil dagger
#

Does getting hit by an enemy fireball remove cold from you?

rocky field
#

Or you could decrease move speed decrease on armor by 5 instead of adding a shittily applied heat system

stray saffron
neat horizon
# stray saffron well yeah but adding it as a detergent for the naked zoomies meta i mean isn't a...

pretty much it? they will be as slow or even slower than if you wore armor so its not a good idea unless you're stacked on campfires. basically how it would work is not wearing clothes or being near campfires slowly applies 'freeze' stacks (similar to ghost king stacks) and each stack decreases your movement and interaction speed and wearing clothes/resting near campfires gets rid of these stack and prevents you from gaining more stacks. Although you're right that being frozen shouldn't take you're hp I still think it should bring an even greater disadvantage than if you just wore clothes. Or if that seems too complicated maybe it would be applied to a singular map like 'Ice caves' or smth where you need to pay attention to your 'freeze' stacks.

peak ermine
#

I really hope they put more effort into the PvE because right now, the games just a PvP game

neat horizon
#

leave poor cleric alone he's just doing what he's told

echo tinsel
#

I thought about it, but I don't think it would be balanced to give it exclusively to rogues.

peak ermine
#

having played the game, along with everyone else, the PvE is non-existent. They're just nuisances.

neat horizon
stray saffron
#

i think any form of healing blocking is bad as healing is really just a cleric thing. sure you think it's cancer when your opponent is being healed but doesn't that also just mean you're angry you don't have a cleric of your own?

i also agree that the game already is more pvp than pve, the only real pve is on B3 because there's no players left to kill most of the time

neat horizon
#

because it is? its the only class that heals?

stray saffron
#

that's the whole point of teamwork, clerics aren't needed and clerics can be taken out. have one and you have healing.

same can be said "a group picked us off from long range cause we don't have rangers or wizards"

granite plinth
#

Saw some people not like the idea of rangers having to craft arrows, as this limits them a lot with the reload mechanic already. Curious on what people think if the reload mechanic was ditched entirely and replaced with making arrows.

I’m just confused on what reloading even does in a realistic sense. Never heard of a archer irl reloading.

neat horizon
#

cleric is the only support class in the game and his job is to buff and heal his teammates. its like saying ranger/wizard is op because he's a requirement cause he can deal damage from distance

echo tinsel
#

Potions would probably have an AoE radius, thus making it highly likely to hit teammates. I don't think it's sometimes ppl would want. Direct teammate hits with poison would still give them this effect, but it wouldn't be so random

stray saffron
#

then no to all your points cause you can kill the cleric. simply preventing healing is a dumb mechanic

proud tinsel
#

bows are easy to nerf just limit ammo and make it take space in inventory just like thrown weapons

stray saffron
#

you know how you can prevent the cleric from healing too? run infront of the cleric and you get the heal. if a barbarian is blocking the doorway then don't fight in a doorway

granite plinth
neat horizon
#

everything in this game has a counter. I don't believe that you cant run away from a barb just like that. and then ambush them and kill the cleric

#

well limiting cleric's healing would be kind of broken since you would negate his whole purpose

proud tinsel
#

I'm sure classes will come along that do healing debuffs

stray saffron
inner moth
#

Not really, currently there's almost a complete absence of standard pve element: quests. Right now the PvE is more of a PVP-enhancing mechanic than it's own style of play. DnD is almost completely PVP at this point.

neat horizon
proud tinsel
#

Barbs and rogues have to buy or loot throwing weapons and deal with inventory issues

stray saffron
inner moth
#

The only "fact" is this: Having NPC's in your game =/= PvE

proud tinsel
#

true you could give them a quiver slot which is what it sounded like they were working on

neat horizon
granite plinth
stray saffron
inner moth
#

"quickly" fletching arrows, lol

neat horizon
granite plinth
#

That’s all I was meaning to say with that. Appolgizes should have been more clear earlier. Also yah ! I suppose you could look at reloading that way. But it’s too fast in that sense. I think Monty has the right idea.

neat horizon
stray saffron
#

i think for it to be an idea arrows don't deal enough damage as you run out you can't even hit with the bow

granite plinth
#

Just curious what people think of bigger magazine, longer reload (like wizard meditation) with no inventory clutter is what I was asking.

inner moth
#

Ranger is supposed to be a one trick pony, either you kill them in one quiver from a distance, or you don't and you die / run

blazing vortex
#

I kinda like it, campfires could slowly refill arrows too

atomic mountain
#

@proud bay . You might wanna avoid putting two suggestions in the same post because some people will like one of them but not the other and you’re mostly just get down voted because most people will not like one or the other.
Like me for example I liked your first idea I thought it was really creative and would be cool but your second idea is a no for me so do Downvote you or upvote you?

stray saffron
#

honestly in the end...just keep the ranger like it is, it works good

neat horizon
granite plinth
#

Using the campfire to fletch more arrows was one I had too! Good idea !

granite plinth
inner moth
#

Arrows sticking out of your body should become part of your hitbox. Would be hilarious to pincushion someone and then they can't get through a door 😄

stray saffron
neat horizon
stray saffron
granite plinth
#

No I simply meant that in ADDITION to the meditation style fletching the campfire could ALSO restore arrows ! :)

gloomy cradle
#

@pallid lichen rip

neat horizon
pallid lichen
#

oh no. i wanted to suggest an aoe push skill for clerics. where he can push all entities away from him. with a 20-second cool down.

stray saffron
gloomy cradle
neat horizon
granite plinth
#

I support Malo’s suggestion seems pretty cool 😅😅

blazing vortex
#

you also can just cancel the ability for multishot and use it as an instant reload, not really a fan of this, but I kinda expect it to be changed

neat horizon
stray saffron
pallid lichen
#

i did. 20 second cooldown. and pushes all entities away. helps him from being bullied by rogues. and usefull in pvp.

neat horizon
stray saffron
neat horizon
gaunt prism
#

Really depends on the vision the developers have for the game. it seems the average discord user wants to push the game to become fantasy tarkov. Yet, the game that everyone has fallen in love with has more in common with 90s shooters like quake, rainbow six, and unreal tournament with a tiny bit of diablo 1 thrown in.

neat horizon
stray saffron
blazing vortex
#

that's kinda the point. rangers shouldn't be able to shoot indefinitely imo
it would be more in line with how the wizard works rn

neat horizon
stray saffron
stray saffron
neat horizon
stray saffron
neat horizon
vapid oxide
#

A guilty pleasure is reading suggestions that start with ‘hear me out before you downvote’ -> read the suggestion -> disagree and downvote -> notice everyone else has downvoted

stray saffron
rocky field
neat horizon
stray saffron
#

titles is what drawn attention after all. if you expect people to downvote it then you're not showing confidence in your idea either

atomic mountain
rocky field
#

Introducing a shittily implemented temperature system just to balance naked people isn’t a good idea, that’s about it. When you have a better solution in reducing movement speed penalty, it’s 1 faster (literally), 2 easier, 3 makes more sense, do I need to go on

neat horizon
atomic mountain
gaunt prism
#

Instead of introducing convoluted systems to balance range vs melee how about we just try removing headshot damage from arrows or just nerfing their total damage overall.

atomic mountain
#

Someone else and made the point that the whole reason a lot of people are resistant to change is because the game is already amazing as f**k and the more drastic changes you put upon the developers to implement the more fragile the state of the game can become

neat horizon
stray saffron
gaunt prism
rocky field
neat horizon
#

but still - the more far fetched the idea the more down votes it gets

gaunt prism
verbal marsh
stray saffron
rocky field
stray saffron
neat horizon
rocky field
#

Eventually I see them adding a snow map where yeah it would be interesting or a volcano map where a premise is that you are at danger of freezing to death / dying to heat. It would ofc come later however.

stray saffron
neat horizon
verbal marsh
rocky field
pallid lichen
#

There are very few suggestions that the game NEEDS to better.

stray saffron
rocky field
#

Imo, it’s a great idea for them to base gameplay off of each individual map, basically can introduce unique gameplay (outside of # of players) for each map

verbal marsh
rocky field
stray saffron
neat horizon
rocky field
granite plinth
#

i did make sure it wasn't a perk too voidy ! just a base thing the ranger would have. Curious as to why you dislike the idea ?

graceful frost
# granite plinth i did make sure it wasn't a perk too voidy ! just a base thing the ranger would ...

having limited arrows is a terrible idea, and really doesn't need to be implemented. Ranger isn't a broken class, and is more or less fine, the only things that need changed are the abilities and them reloading the quiver and quickshots very low cooldown. things like that, not ranger having limited arrows, also arrows are nowhere close to as good as wizard spells so needing to wait to get them back like wizard spells doesn't really make sense

verbal marsh
stray saffron
#

little correction about arrows with rangers, a quiver before reloading them currently has a total of 18 on recurve, 21 survival bow and 15 on longbow and then they need a forced reload...if they shoot all that at you and you're not dead then the ranger just failed so there's no need for a meditation style arrow fletching that would change nothing really.

and if it's a perk then meditation should also be a perk which opens a whole new can of worms

rocky field
# verbal marsh Goblin is essentially the solo map rn, equiv to running twisted treeline instead...

Well, it wouldn’t happen until they add more functions. For ex mining is in a extreme beta, they’ve talked about adding agriculture like plant gathering as well. So it does seem like they’re inching towards a fuller experience. And you have quests for each merchant as well, hell they could design an entire potion brewing mechanic into the game, potential is there, so much they could do that I doubt they’ll just design different map designsz

deep jacinth
#

I hate ranger but even I don't want to screw them over like that. Something like that is just counter intuitive to the gameplay they're not wizard where they have 8 different things they can do or cleric so why would they have mediation from a pure gameplay and balance discussion

atomic mountain
#

I feel like if ranger started with a quiver and someone came up with the idea that we just add a reload mechanic instead people would say the same exact thing to counter the idea that they’re saying about a quiver being bad

graceful frost
#

just doesn't make sense either. there are better ways to change the class, like forcing an actual reload in the first place. maybe having limited arrows of 20 total and 5 per quiver, but that is just too much. your better off tweaking the current skills like quickshot mostly and multishot kinda to force ranger to reload. rangers almost never have to reload cause quickshot gives them ammo back, multishot does, and quickshot cooldown is very low so they can just run and spam it. better off changing those abilities to force ranger to reload instead of limited arrow garbage

pallid lichen
#

wait waits the ranger idea in question?

stray saffron
pallid lichen
#

replacing the need to reload? or working with reload but limited arrows, until meditate?

stray saffron
atomic mountain
#

I got no skin in the game so I’m not gonna say if it’s a great idea or not but saying that it doesn’t make sense is just Cap

gleaming marsh
granite plinth
stray saffron
graceful frost
gleaming marsh
pallid lichen
deep jacinth
#

idk any kind of ammo management mechanic on ranger would just be a straight up mistake besides reloading. Rangers are good sure, but forcing them into a mechanic where they have to refill is not a good idea the arrows aren't like spells they're not as versatile it's just a flat damage attack

granite plinth
#

i suppose my suggestion relies to much on realism and less fun gameplay wise.. i thought this might be a way to balance AND have realism.

elder jolt
graceful frost
deep jacinth
#

idk why we're even talking about this tbh when ranger has like 2 free reloads and we're talking about ammo capacity because they're the same thing

gleaming marsh
deep jacinth
#

If they want a free reload so bad make that into a skill instead of having two skills that reload for free and have their own powerful effect on top of it

graceful frost
verbal marsh
pallid lichen
gleaming marsh
# pallid lichen wait who suggested changing that? because based.

No, don't change the reload system. It works fine. Change the abilities and damage around it so it wouldn't be overpowered by instant reloads.

Making a person reload often is better than allowing someone to shoot a lot more arrows at a time before they have to make arrows.

deep jacinth
#

I understand they're not changing the free reload but if you change ranger into limited arrows that's essentially two different ways to approach the same issue and making them do some kind of mediate bs is just not a good idea. Hell give rangers a weaker ranged option if they are caught in between reloads, not a stronger one.

rocky field
granite plinth
#

why do you think the meditation bs is not a good idea? like what is the reasoning behind that (just curious not upset)

gleaming marsh
dreamy iris
#

Is there people fighting for the idea to complicate and add extra steps to reloading/quivers in general?

pallid lichen
amber solstice
#

If they did limit arrows, having them be retrievable from walls and bodies could work. So you can get them all back at the end of the fight but not just be able to spam them infinitely.

granite plinth
rugged pilot
gleaming marsh
deep jacinth
#

It's too complicated for one just from like a gameplay perspective and using it. I mean they'd be able to get it but it's not really intuitive, it's just better to fit the mold in these types of cases making rangers feel more sluggish because they can do ranged dps in this game would just bring down the game as a whole imo. It's hard to explain why it's such a bad idea in theory but if you had people sitting down and playing with it it would be obvious why

stray saffron
inner ember
#

why are people so obsessed with this ranger arrow mechanic

deep jacinth
#

because they're obsessed with having some realism as a problem solving solution but it just doesn't fit

rugged pilot
#

People think ranger arrows need to be retrievable but don't think Fighters and Barbs should get tired and need to sit down, its madness

atomic mountain
amber solstice
#

Everyone is obsessed with anything that wastes time until April 14th.

granite plinth
gaunt prism
#

Should the pavise be removed from the game?

graceful frost
pallid lichen
rugged pilot
#

If we go into realism like that, then after Fighter sprint he should have to sit down for 10 seconds and rest

dreamy iris
#

any of y’all ever played wow from vanilla till cata prepatch? hunters use to go into shops to purchase arrows before any sort of pve they would go into. if some of y’all want realism so bad add it as a separate item you have to purchase x amount of before every game or buy enough to stash in for long play sessions

inner ember
graceful frost
verbal marsh
deep jacinth
#

just trust the devs if they thought mediation was a good idea for ranger they would have put it in because they already have stuff like that for other class

atomic mountain
#

Bro lol this man proposed a creative idea and y’all shitting all over it and saying that he’s obsessed and exaggerating and conflating the gameplay mechanics to make your points.

He literally said he just thought it was a neat idea not an obsession lol

elder jolt
pallid lichen
rugged pilot
#

If your weapon clanks a wall it does -5 damage for the rest of the dungeon, and it stacks infinitely

rEalIsM

granite plinth
rocky field
dreamy iris
rugged pilot
#

a "creative idea" is not suggested and downvoted 12+ times a week, thats just an idea.

deep jacinth
#

I mean the idea isn't like necessarily a bad idea in terms of creativity but i just think it wouldn't work i'm not trying to shit on it in terms of trying to make anyone who comes up with a creative idea or something

graceful frost
# granite plinth because it adds realism and immersion! and attempts to fix balancing... at least...

thing is it doesn't fix balancing. if anything it makes it worse, the little balancing it could achieve in a perfect world would also be achieved by balancing ranger skills. it more likely however will just make ranger an even worse wizard, and take it from a bit unbalanced, but pretty good place to just bad. ( @pallid lichen maybe keeping the cancel for multishot could be a good idea, otherwise that skill becomes useless. I think the real issue comes with multishot and quickshot not multishot by itself

pallid lichen
#

does anyone actually have agood arguemtn why abilities SHOULD reload you FULL quiver.

stray saffron
elder jolt
atomic mountain
rugged pilot
granite plinth
graceful frost
inner ember
#

Without getting too entrepreneur-like, suggestions in this phase of the game really need to be concise. People writing paragraphs are losing sight of the purpose

verbal marsh
rugged pilot
rugged pilot
pallid lichen
atomic mountain
dreamy iris
#

I def think reload is needed. Otherwise you’d have rangers machine gunning the place

deep jacinth
#

of course

granite plinth
#

yeah of course! :)

stray saffron
inner ember
#

Devs should just write a lore explanation. Bows in dark and darker land never run out of arrows

graceful frost
granite plinth
#

for fun :D

inner ember
graceful frost
rugged pilot
# atomic mountain Strawman argument that’s literally how wizards get their spells back by resting ...

Because if we are on the course of "ReAliSm!" then Fighter and Barb need their "rEalIsM" too, shield must break after blocking attacks, wounds would get infected even if you healed it, lowering max health. Floor traps lower movespeed permanently if they injure you

My point is realism is great, but too much is not fun. Playing ranger with limited arrows would not be fun, being unable to kill somebody because you ran out of Arrows, as the guy that is only good at shooting arrows.. It'd just feel bad, especially when many classes and monsters are capable of tanking many of them or simply healing the damage immediately.

atomic mountain
#

Rangers should be able to dual wield hand crossbows

dreamy iris
#

Realism is great but we’re playing a game with naked wizards running around shooting beams at people

granite plinth
#

lmaoooooo good point

inner ember
#

Realism is a slippery slope and bad reason to make changes. Gameplay and style are better reasons that shouldn't suffer for realism

graceful frost
#

I think survival bow should be able to be dual wielded, allowing a machine gun and both bows get reloaded by quickshot and get the ability. also they should make each have 15 bullets and do even more movement slow. also they should double damage\

rugged pilot
#

rEalisM

let every class use every weapon, even if they are bad with them. That way you can't say "NOOOO rogue shouldn't get crossbow!!! It'd be too OP!"

gaunt prism
#

Like what is even the issue? Is it because bows can cheese too much of pve? Is it that they can clear rooms with almost zero risk compared to melee classes? Is it that they can zone new players off of portals at the end of a match just a little too easily? I have no idea what this 3 hour discussion is actually about at this point.

atomic mountain
amber solstice
#

They should check the data to see the most arrows fired in a single game and change the ranger model to show that many arrows sticking out of their 2nd secret downstairs quiver.

rugged pilot
# atomic mountain Just because somebody says something makes a little more sense to them a.k.a. re...

The mechanic would not be fun. People ask why, you state why, thats explaining facts and then having an opinion about it.

You can use buzzwords like strawmanning if you like, Its producing counterpoints to the arguement that Ranger in the first place even needs limited arrows, which they don't. The only way that is effective is if the Ranger runs out. Would you like Fighter and Barb to run out of melee attacks and need to drink a stamina potion to attack again?

graceful frost
# gaunt prism Like what is even the issue? Is it because bows can cheese too much of pve? Is i...

its cause many rangers don't need to reload ever, allowing a wall of bullets thats hard to counter. when you know what your doing rangre becomes pretty average and can be delt with a lot of the time, but doesn't change the fact that its a bit too oppresive. Ranger should counter missing and force a reload for missing allowing the opponent to push you. however currently you can use quickshot and or multishot and get free reloads and continue the wall of bullets

granite plinth
pallid lichen
gaunt prism
#

Ok so the problem is quick shot and multishot? Or maybe the reload animation is a little too fast?

atomic mountain
graceful frost
dreamy iris
#

don’t forget duo and 3 stack ranger squads. Even with the reload mechanic that’s 10-15 shots across the room. you might as well line up against the wall for an execution

rugged pilot
gaunt prism
granite plinth
#

@tame pewter oh btw I believe it does do this already ! when i smack i chest sometime i could tell by the sound and my weapons reaction if it was a mimic. But that is with barbs "smash" perk !! I also only play barb so idk if its the same for other classes LMAO

tame pewter
#

ive hit mimic chest b4 and it didnt do anything

graceful frost
pallid lichen
dawn raptor
#

5

atomic mountain
# rugged pilot Wizard just needs a space to sit down and get his spells back. He doesn't have...

And in the dude suggestion he said that you could create more arrows by taking a short rest just like the wizard without it having to take up a skill slot.
But saying that it’s not a good idea just because it’s too realistic and there are other things in the game that aren’t realistic so that’s a good reason why not to put something else in the game that might be a little more realistic isn’t explaining why it wouldn’t be good

amber solstice
#

I'd rather reloading take longer but not reduce movement speed. So there is more time to push and the ranger can reposition rather than be stuck defending because he is slow. And/or what if quick shot and multi shot were just instant fire? No holding, just press it when you need it?

stray saffron
trail current
#

What do you guys think about changing the invisibility spell on wizard so the effect gets removed if you move ? Think it will help fights be a lot more enjoyable and not leave whoever dies to a invis barb running past everything feeling helpless

pallid lichen
gaunt prism
#

REAL DISCUSSION HOUR: Should mobs pick up loss stones and bricks off the floor to throw at ranged players that are cheesing them with pavise/environment exploits???

granite plinth
#

i think devs added so that pavises break after a while of being hit no ?

dawn raptor
#

or just improve pathing, give them more varied attacks that can hit cheese spots

pallid lichen
graceful frost
atomic mountain
dawn raptor
#

thats when you pull out the second bow 🧠

stray saffron
pallid lichen
#

Ok can you guys vote on this idea. (upvote/downvote)
quick shot reloads 3, multishot reloads 5. Survival bow gets at least 10 arrows in the quiver.

graceful frost
atomic mountain
cobalt obsidian
stray saffron
pallid lichen
amber solstice
#

There will always be cheese spots. You could also have their HP reset if their target is inaccessible rather than just sitting there eating headshots. Far easier to implement. Cheese spots at least put you in a very vulnerable position for other players. And it seems like they intend on higher player counts for each level instead of wiping B2 and having an empty B3.

cobalt obsidian
#

and also.. guys in here trying to discuss nerfs for non issues with the ranger. Traps are the real problem.

pallid lichen
stray saffron
atomic mountain
cobalt obsidian
#

Without traps to kite around as a ranger... the class would literally be useless as a solo character at this point. 😄 So bad.

They cant even nerf traps is my point without killing the class atleast in solos.

rugged pilot
trail current
# atomic mountain It’s only 3 seconds, and What a lot of people don’t realize is that even when so...

"its only 3 seconds" sure but when ur hasted and invis'd the you can cover the same distance that would normally take you 6 seconds by the time you realise someone is invis hes already in your backline killing your cleric or ranger in 2 hits and you cant do anything about it , its completely unhealthy for fights , just watch the top 1 barbarian play using this to engage almost every fight , hes a fantastic player but the fact he knows how to play around this combo so well is what makes him rank 1 https://youtu.be/HY8ebTYKWug

cobalt obsidian
dreamy iris
#

idk what lobbies I’ve been apart of lol I play both solo cave, normal and high roller and one thing I’ll say is I don’t see enough rangers using traps. 40+ hours of game play between last 2 tests and I can say I’ve only gotten myself stuck in a trap twice and in total came across hunter traps 2-3 other times

graceful frost
granite plinth
#

honestly i think adding difference variety of traps could be cool ! Snares and such along with just the bear trap

dreamy iris
#

They already exist don’t they?

graceful frost
#

maybe changing them to more of a slowing thing compared to stop in place and need to disarm could work but idk

atomic mountain
rugged pilot
#

You can stop a hasted and invis barbarian that you can't see or hear, okay buddy

granite plinth
atomic mountain
graceful frost
#

yeah im not actually sure how "broken" rangre traps are. I mean they are good but a lot of the time its just people not considering they could be there.

trail current
#

when did i say that like

cobalt obsidian
rugged pilot
#

#1 Barb is also insanely geared and fighting people in starter gear BTW, he's not looking incredibly skilled

atomic mountain
granite plinth
graceful frost
cobalt obsidian
#

The haste + invis should have diminishing returns on allied characters.. Would help to prevent the barb problem.

rugged pilot
# graceful frost yeah

Ranger traps are "broken" in the form that they legitimately glitch and sink inside of objects and cannot be disarmed

dreamy iris
#

yo clerics don’t y’all hate it when you try casting a spell on yourself and you smack a torch on the wall instead

graceful frost
atomic mountain
rugged pilot
#

When you have no points or counters to the debate so you just play a card like "You shoulda just left the room when you saw a Wizard + Barb combo"

amber solstice
#

More top players need to share their lowlights compilations.

dreamy iris
#

I mean in some scenarios you just get rocked with bad RNG. But it’s true you usually do have multiple options on how you wanna play out a pvp situation

pallid lichen
#

They should make invisibility spell have a unique sound. problem solved

gaunt prism
rugged pilot
atomic mountain
trail current
#

but be realistic, i think the ratio between how likely the invis player is to win vs the players theyre fighting is heavily sided towards the invis player , i dont know how hyper aware you are but id like to see you notice an invis player > react appropriately > kill them before they kill at least one of your team .

invis NEEDS a change you cant try and justify it by saying you can "hear them coming" thats bs

rugged pilot
atomic mountain
#

Everybody in this game thinks everything is OP it’s ridiculous. The fact that everybody thinks everybody else is OP means everybody’s balance bro

trail current
rugged pilot
#

Not once have I ever gone "Damn fighter is so OP dude, Barb is so strong... That ranger is busted!!!"

Wizard is very strong and needs more nerfs, he makes every other class OP with his buffs.

dreamy iris
#

I think more people need the “play better win more” mentality

trail current
pallid lichen
#

are barbs OP? and why?

atomic mountain
rugged pilot
gaunt prism
dreamy iris
#

trueeeeeee

rugged pilot
graceful frost
thorn ivy
atomic mountain
#

Everybody keeps putting it on the devs to change the game instead of looking inward Or discussing possible tactics to out play something they feel is a little too strong, it’s weak

trail current
rugged pilot
thorn ivy
#

I play cleric here

amber solstice
#

The overwhelming majority of the playerbase's skill level is so low it's really hard to speak on anything's actual balance. Especially when there are essentially limitless additions to be made in the near future that will require rebalancing. The only thing I truly have an issue with is trade. Everything else is just creative thinking to pass the time.

graceful frost
atomic mountain
dreamy iris
gaunt prism
pallid lichen
trail current
thorn ivy
rugged pilot
onyx lotus
#

@tame pewter the mimic actually is revealed in a way when you hit it. It makes a unique sound on hit that none of the real chests do. Listen for it next time, you'll see what I mean (unless they change it in the next playtest for some reason, but I doubt it)

graceful frost
dreamy iris
amber solstice
pallid lichen
#

what if invis spell had a distinct sound, then you can hear that strategy coming and know not to trust your eyes.

atomic mountain
#

I’m not saying it’s not really strong but I’m not gonna concede that it’s absolutely busted and needs to be changed either

rugged pilot
#

I love being accused of being a ranger main when the four classes I added roles for are not including ranger.

Thats how you know when I say a concept for ranger is not very fun that its not gonna effect me but I still care

trail current
# amber solstice You hit him with your invis barb first.

haha and thats just not healthy thats what im saying it needs a change but im getting nobrainers who are supposedly hyper aware hearing every footstep and mouse click the enemy takes mid fight and reacting accordingly 😂 its just unrealistic

graceful frost
thorn ivy
rugged pilot
atomic mountain
#

If you want to hear some of the absolute top notch content creators and players of this game talk about it go watch this video and listen from 50:00-1:00:00

https://youtu.be/8Gf9n7SC13o

pallid lichen
trail current
thorn ivy
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yeah I've said they need to remove the ability for wizard to use invis/haste on others

graceful frost
# trail current haha and thats just not healthy thats what im saying it needs a change but im ge...

yeah most people arent gonna be so dialed in where the second they hear a wiz spell, wiz buff, cleric buff, barb roar or anything like that they look for an escape root and insta run away. ( @pallid lichen maybe hard to hear is the wrong word, since you can hear it, but maybe more of a better noise queue which is indicative of the spell being used. so instead of a semi quiet normal spell sound some sort of louder or more different/noticable sound, if that makes any sense

dreamy iris
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ugh yeah so the problem with top player opinions is you’re getting opinions from top 1% players. Their views won’t apply to your average gamers which is the vast majority. a lot of their points are good but I wouldn’t say their word is law

amber solstice
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You can hear the buff ball barb building up in the room next door. Most people are way too busy looting and just not paying attention in general. There are plenty of counters to it. But beating one of the best skilled, geared, coordinated, and prepared teams require similar levels of play. They went from not dying in previous playtests to dying fairly regularly. You just dont get to see lowlight reels for when they lose.

atomic mountain
thorn ivy
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cleric wizard barb is something basically anyone can make work

atomic mountain
#

If you’re not paying attention to what the top players are doing then there will always be a gap in your skill level where you think something needs to be changed with the game but really there’s something you need to change in how you play

pallid lichen
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my favorite thing is when a main for a certain character has a nerf idea, and then the main for the charcter died by it thinking its fine. like i heard alot of barb mains thinking they do too much damage but as a rogue that gets one shot by them, i love that. i want to fear barbs.

trail current
# graceful frost yeah most people arent gonna be so dialed in where the second they hear a wiz sp...

a noticeable noise queue would be a good change , literally nobody is going to react appropriately to hearing some footsteps they cant see. My suggestion was changing the invis spell so you cant move while its actice otherwise it will break similar to a potion , compare every other buff in the game and think which buff allows you to turn a fight or engage with an absolute advantage and i guarantee you think of invis

dreamy iris
atomic mountain
amber solstice
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It's funny how no one mentions the abuse of jumping to negate the attack animations swing penalty when that's probably the most offensive thing in high level gameplay.

fossil oasis
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Anyone know why I cant submit a suggestion? I am probably doing the command wrong.

thorn ivy
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I think a healer is always gonna be meta in hardcore games like this but wizard utility is turning the game into 'buff ball our melee and step aside'

dreamy iris
atomic mountain
thorn ivy
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Wizard would still be very viable if they could only self cast buffs. They would just no longer be a must have. Having Cleric/X/Barb or Fighter is still infinitely more interesting than cleric/wiz/barb

atomic mountain
stray saffron
thorn ivy
atomic mountain
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Again I’m not saying it’s not super strong but what I am saying is that if you keep focusing on balance as the core issue for why you’re dying you’ll never be able to adapt to the next new meta because you keep looking externally for the solution to a problem that’s not external

gaunt prism
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if the beta had lasted another week, would the meta still be buff ball fighter? Would rogues have switched to pure poison damage builds or weakpoint builds to counter the damage reduction meta?

graceful frost
stray saffron
proud tinsel
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We know rangers are a balance problem because over 60% of solo boss kills are done by rangers. ADHD is right a good player regardless of what they play is going to kill a weak player.

atomic mountain
trail current
pallid lichen
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heard an idea to make Xbows do innate Armor Pen and less damage, to help ranger counter armored fighter.

dreamy iris
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Okay so I watched the clip Dolan posted

gaunt prism
thorn ivy
graceful frost
trail current
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how can you call something a glass cannon even if theyre literally weaker than wearing gear ?