#suggestion-discussion

1 messages · Page 12 of 1

wary shell
#

No 🙂

median thunder
#

he saw my trap

#

drat

rancid pond
#

you also can hit multiple mobs at once

wraith zenith
#

The bat skulls looking more and more like health pots everyday

median thunder
#

I would lump bat skulls as spiders

#

not dragonflys though

#

shudders

#

fuck dragonflys

#

floating signs that say take 25 damage

celest mango
wary shell
#

Nah, all non respawning mobs trigger the effect

#

Bat skulls are easy to handle, provided they are lending themselves positionally to you

rancid pond
#

@celest mango whats wrong with rangers multishot, you can ez avoid it

wary shell
#

But there in lies the fly in the soup

median thunder
#

Rangers shotgun blast deals full damage with every arrow

#

I've nuked full health barbs with it by facehugging

#

and killed them in on button press

#

it also refills quiver

rancid pond
#

idk why people walk in straight lines to approach rangers lol

median thunder
#

so you can use it reload cancel

#

oh he didn't straight line

#

I ran around a corner stopped and waited for him to come charging around

rancid pond
#

at least not a problem with shields, barbs could have problem tho

median thunder
#

since what ranger in his right mind corner humps to get closer

wraith zenith
#

I think the arrow is fine

wary shell
#

Imagine barb with a shield

wraith zenith
#

it should just not refill the quiver

median thunder
#

Chad Ranger mentality - I run both triple shot and multi shot - because both can be used as reload cancels or insane dps on a whim

#

I'm basically playing old ranger

#

since I can near constantly spam without actually reloading

#

I find playing ranger really really boring thankfully

rancid pond
#

Im more impressed by rangers that set up bear traps and lure you in using map knowledge

median thunder
#

Yeah... I still don't know how to feel about rangers getting traps and campfires as base kit

#

and fighter not being able to place them with mastery

#

and mastery getting a nerf that applies to all weapons rather then just bows

rancid pond
#

im using bow with fighter just to cheese wraiths

wraith zenith
#

^^^

cerulean pecan
#

Is there a looking-for-party channel?

median thunder
#

fighting wraith as melee fighter isn't that bad - you just want to bait the charge attack over and over and block your left side

celest mango
#

I am talking from experienced pvp-er perspective. I understand that my threads will ignite a lot of hate amidst rangers but I believe ranger is the only heavily unbalanced class in the game. If it wasn't so, there wouldn't have been increased amount of 3-ranger squads lategame both this and last playtest.

wraith zenith
#

where are the stats

median thunder
#

we had player stats as graphs last playtest

#

just can't find them now

rancid pond
wraith zenith
#

they break the door

rancid pond
#

if they attack tho

signal lance
median thunder
#

<@&988703997378584596> Do you guys know where last playtests player stats are at? The graph and pie chart ones that broke down class distribution

wraith zenith
#

introduce the chase mechanic

#

and I think its over and done with

#

tbh

rancid pond
#

so while wraith coming just close door

#

and it will just stand there

median thunder
#

They updated monster AI to prevent body blocking them

#

I wouldn't be surprised if they made a random attack check

#

just to smash doors

rancid pond
#

probably will be like that

median thunder
#

you previously could have your bud piss off a mob - then just block it in a doorway yourself and it would never hit you to get to him

rancid pond
#

wouldnt be surprised if they also start throwing axes if they cant reach you, like the room with windows

gentle blade
median thunder
#

@gentle blade Thanks mate! Just wanted the old ones for a class comparison breakdown

#

Ah theres my numbers

#

Considering barb was at a whopping 12% playrate last playtest

#

and last playtest had boring wizard

#

Barb is liable to be in last place

#

by a large margin

split vessel
#

I saw quite a few barbs during my playthrough as a wizard after watching streamer playing solo wizard

#

I also saw streamers playing barb solos

median thunder
#

personal perception versus mass number perception - I had more then a few games where there wasn't a single barb in the game at all - but I saw 4+ fighters or rangers

glacial bridge
#

12% is a fine pickrate when an even split would be 16%

split vessel
#

12% would be considerably under-represented...

rancid pond
#

could do 1 fighter vs 3 rangers, if its like 1 fighter vs 3 fighters, then prob either run or try seperate them ( which doubtful)

median thunder
#

its fine pickrate until I mention that fighter and rogue where at 24 percent or so

#

and ranger at 20%

split vessel
#

So one thing I noticed is that my first play on wizard I felt like I couldn't do things the way I wanted to

rancid pond
#

2 barbs and 1 cleric tho, : ))

gray vessel
#

tbh its shocking that the worst pickrate was 12% when the average is 16%. That clearly means its perfectly balanced and a longer playtest will yield different results. It would be extremely foolish if the dev team decided to significantly buff the barbarian over a 25% difference in player pcikrate

split vessel
#

Until I watched best wizards playing the class and I returned to it as my personal favorite

median thunder
#

worst was wizard for that data set - at 9%

split vessel
#

But just walking into a game with wizard and a staff feels really really bad compared to the starting kit of other classes, until you learn how to play the class

median thunder
#

but this is last tests data set

#

so its liable that wizard is going to jump up

#

after the spell tweaks

glacial bridge
#

to be fair, wizard should have the lowest pick rate. it should also be the highest skillcap and strongest at full gear

median thunder
#

cleric too

gray vessel
#

Valorant - A game where they have had years working on the very carful balance of their heros doesn't have near as good of a pickrate for the lowest chosen characters lol.

median thunder
#

whats funny about that statement is that wizard is the least gear dependent character in the game

#

aside from potentially rogue

split vessel
#

wizard is highly gear dependent for pvp IMO

rancid pond
#

you can ez dodge wizard, but those who utilize speed across runs and shoots and try to dry out your skill/perks, rly dangerous ones

median thunder
#

Considering I spent an entire playtest day playing naked punch rogue - and naked staff only wizard

split vessel
#

if you want to roll 5 good spells you did need to find at least 1 knowledge with sage perk but yea not super gear dependent to do stuff in normal lobby

median thunder
#

Best spell setup requires only 12 spell memory mate

#

Fireball, Missile, haste, Zap, Ignite

#

only thing your lacking is invis

#

which is good

split vessel
#

no shot bruv zap haste invis fireball missile best setup

#

after ignite fix* anyway

median thunder
#

Ignite scales of the users will for more damage

split vessel
#

wizard melee range = dead wizard

median thunder
#

you use it for mob clearing mate

split vessel
#

you don't need ignite to clear mobs lol

median thunder
#

saves your more important spells for killing players

steep summit
median thunder
#

ignite makes it way faster

split vessel
#

so what you do is, you let other players clear the mobs, and then you kill them lol

median thunder
#

forehead wizard does not have patience

#

forehead wizard sometimes use fireball to open doors to go faster

split vessel
#

fivehead wizard clears a room faster than forehead wizard with 1 magic missiles and a zap and meditates his spells back

rancid pond
#

imagine if rogues could bypass shields

median thunder
#

forehead wizard big scary when I cast fireball in .1 seconds

#

literally a tf2 soldier comes sprinting in - rockets you - and leaves

steep summit
split vessel
#

I did want to try ignite crossbow but I never got around to it during the playtest

median thunder
#

meditate is for those with plans of longevity

split vessel
#

I thought about dropping meditate for campfires too

median thunder
#

I have plans of glory!

#

plus double chain lightning on my other setup is WAY too funny

steep summit
rancid pond
#

cant wait for 3 wizard group doing teabags

median thunder
#

either running by mobs if the room is big enough

split vessel
#

3 wizard group fire balling each other xd

median thunder
#

or murdering what I absolutely had to with ignite staff

#

wizards ability to nascar spawns is only limited by interaction speed

#

rogue is so fast that only like one room is a death sentence on spawn

split vessel
#

if you stack big agility you can interact faster

median thunder
#

naked

split vessel
#

all attributes and agility

median thunder
#

can't stack stats if I strip for speed

split vessel
#

haste

#

you stack all attributes and you're faster than stripped

median thunder
#

those are for killing people carl

split vessel
#

and you can look like a noob!

#

don't take off your wizard hat and frock

next wagon
median thunder
#

nah - nothing beats the menace of a naked red skeleton bhoping after you istant casting fireballs

next wagon
median thunder
#

Slate gets an upvote - I'd love detailed breakdown on spell damage

rancid pond
#

watch leeches/skeleton rangers actually following you rather just stand in corner and shoot wall

median thunder
#

No - I still think rogue is more then a little busted

#

considering just how effective stripping naked and mike tyson running with him is

twin thorn
median thunder
#

I like that 12% pickrate got cherry picked as the lowest - when its both wrong and I've stated multiple times its previous playtest data

#

9% for wizard is correct for lowest

#

@gray vessel

twin thorn
#

I think wizard is very playable, its just that the learning curve is higher and so its a bit less popular when you only have 1 week to play.

median thunder
#

Again - Old playtest data - as in back in october/novemeber data

#

with new changes to wizard having more stuff I see him likely having a 14% ish pickrate

#

but barb is liable to tank hard in playrate

#

considering his counter magic perk isn't substantial enough to really let him eat fireballs

twin thorn
#

why?

median thunder
#

Wizard got new toys

#

as did cleric

#

therefore people are liable to try them out and pump up there play rate

white cliff
#

Cleric is the best class.

median thunder
#

ranger also got tweaked so people are liable to have played him quite a bit to come to grips with quivers

#

Barb received nothing and was already in bottom three for playrate

#

Fighter also got soft nerfed due to weapon mastery getting a damage penalty - but I doubt his numbers will dip much

white cliff
#

Do you mind posting a quick list of the pick rates? Or even just a numbered list. Internets still out and I can’t click external links, still interested though.

median thunder
#

fourth graph has playrate across all games

#

as the left pie chart

white cliff
#

Wonderful, that’s actually super helpful to look at.

gray vessel
median thunder
#

I agree with your point chad - just not the data you chose to back it

gray vessel
#

fair enough

median thunder
#

I don't know if I agree with 9% pickrate being ok with 16% being the even pickrate

#

since you'd be at half pickrate at that point

#

but wizard got buffed allready

#

so its unlikely to be that bad this data set

gray vessel
#

yeah, I am also very excited for the skill tree and how it might shake things up

white cliff
#

I’m surprised that cleric isn’t the least played.

median thunder
#

I do have some ideas about how to balance rogue

#

people like there healing crutch

#

thats not me ragging on cleric to be clear

#

(though I don't like cleric)

white cliff
#

When end game comes down to spacing and stat checking, instant health and stat buffs are the difference maker.

gray vessel
#

Me and my brother were duo in high roller and we went against this super buffed fighter with wizard and cleric spamming buffs on him, we hit him like 18 times before he died LOL

median thunder
#

I'm wondering how people would feel about halving rogues PVP damage (so a literal damage penalty to players) but giving him a bunch more stats and crowd control to compensate

(and I do mean things like actual decent slows, blinds and forced drunk vision)

#

and I mean purely agility and resource for stats

#

so he's even faster to compensate for lack of lethaltity

#

(Weapon poison and rupture not dealing player damage level of damage tweaks)

twin thorn
#

i do think in high rollers the rogue was a bit too common

white cliff
#

I honestly had a pretty balanced experience, didn’t really feel like we where being oppressed by any class. Say for 3x ranger on wheel tower.

median thunder
#

its more so because geared rogue 2 shots geared fighter

#

which is a bit dumb

twin thorn
#

rogue is only thing that felt a bit opressive to me.

white cliff
median thunder
#

hell rogue is the only class I can consistently drop naked and get at least two kills on

#

wizard is reliant on good room RNG

white cliff
#

But we where running wizard before a lot of people which bursts both rogue and ranger.

twin thorn
#

in normals its fine cuz most rogues had no gear or clue what to do, but a skilled rogue was strong

white cliff
#

You think so?

#

In response to the rng comment.

#

I don’t really like looking at normal data to be frank.

median thunder
#

I don't consider high roller data relevant to common game experience

#

shrugs

#

High roller is nothing but ultra sweats and mobs with x4 hp

white cliff
#

We have a fundamental disagreement I suppose.

median thunder
#

and basing balance data too much on the "pro scene" often times leads to alieanting your noobs too much

#

thus your game stops growing

#

and then dies

white cliff
#

Extraction based games like these have always had less mass appeal, take tarcov or hunt showdown, then shove 30k people on top of that who all die to PvE elements.

#

Sure I understand that there needs to be a healthy balance.

median thunder
#

I also think that balancing classes on what they do in purple and blue kits is unrealistic to what the classes do on there own

white cliff
#

But a game like league or valorant solely focuses around pro play.

#

Which trickles down into the base game.

#

And then metas per rank start to form.

median thunder
#

balancing base class against base class should be the starting point

#

because gear is easier to tweak then an entire classes kit

white cliff
#

But I think rogue becomes oppressive with gear creep.

#

Not because it’s a strong base class.

median thunder
#

Fighter - Fighter can get 60% dr easily - but I've seen as high as... I think 77%?

twin thorn
#

i think its entirely possible to make a class balanced in both normal and high rollers. For example i don't think anyone thinks fighter is too oppressive or too weak, in both play styles.

median thunder
#

@white cliff I wish I had foootage of me playing naked punch rogue - running into a three man and punching 2 out of 3 of them out consistently

muted crag
#

All points of the spectrum must be taken into consideration, and its bot even a matter of gear vs juiced, its "what if this guy stacks the hell out of this one stat?"

white cliff
#

Yeah but, this is our fundamental difference again. You’re punching into people who haven’t played an extraction based game in their life.

#

They’re used to fortnite and overwatch.

median thunder
#

No... I punched out a blue and purple team once

#

killed there ranger and cleric

#

small data set on that one

#

but I've done it fully naked

#

and I pulled that off purely due to high movespeed and high base damage + the fighters unwillingness to hit his own team to get me off them

white cliff
#

I’m not saying you’re lying certainly, but it just sounds like an outlier event.

median thunder
#

rogues fists with backstab do around 32 damage a headshot

#

around 20ish for just chest punching

white cliff
#

You being naked and coming into punching range against competent players would land you in 1TKO headshot range.

median thunder
#

couple with rupture and weapon poison

#

and you blender pretty hard

#

plus the fact you have NO movespeed penalty on a class with a base like 30 agility

#

you go fast enough you can dart and dash on arming sword with the right timing

#

literally duck in and out between strikes of a one handed weapon

white cliff
#

Can’t say I saw any naked rogues this playtest, nor does it sound like a solid example on why a class is over powered.

median thunder
#

Kind of sad about that to be honest - I taught quite a few people the joys of playing naked rogue

twin thorn
#

i personally sometimes got rid of starting pants, felt like the armor wasn't worth the speed penalty

median thunder
#

differing perspective to explain the issue with naked rogue doing that

#

If I sprint by and clap your fighter in the back of the head with rupture up?

#

thats your second wind gone

#

I did 50% of your hp in damage

white cliff
#

Like I said I think the gear creep is the issue not the class.

median thunder
#

in a single hit and run

#

with my fists

#

on the fastest class in the game

white cliff
#

It’s not the fighter you should be worried about, it’s the wizard I just buffed who’s point blank with magic missiles lol.

median thunder
#

I'm literally so fast naked that you can't sprint buff to catch me with your own fists out

white cliff
#

I don’t need to be able to catch you if I can kill you when you come into range.

gray vessel
#

wizard haste is faster than rogue no doubt

median thunder
#

Can't ignite magic missiles anymore chief

And a hasted fighter will catch me unless I have even a single door

white cliff
#

You, keep in mind are completely gear-less.

glacial bridge
#

i play naked as Wizard/Ranger/Cleric but I wear full gear on my Rogue

median thunder
#

yep - did it for an entire day this playtest - juking mobs is no problem given rogues speed if thats what your about to imply - hell I can be even meaner and drag in a train of mobs into you then invis to swap aggro

white cliff
median thunder
#

I'd be kind of confused if they removed ignite working with magical missiles

#

but not divine strike

winged silo
#

hello why i can't play anymore on steam???

white cliff
#

We ran fighter wizard cleric or 2x cler wizard the entire playtest.

white cliff
winged silo
#

😮

#

There is no way to play?

white cliff
#

February 6th-13th.

glacial bridge
#

ended like 33 hours ago. gotta wait until Feb 6th

winged silo
#

thanks

median thunder
#

Triple wizard is the funnest comp

#

and to those I can't instantly sell on that

#

let me rephrase

#

15

#

fireballs

white cliff
#

Can’t say I tried any other class this play test.

median thunder
#

played everything to 20 - and more then a little past that... except ranger - I played ranger to 20 then was bored to tears

white cliff
#

I did a full class level last play test but wanted to see how high I could climb with just cleric.

median thunder
#

Also counterpoint to your previous arguement J - your having to reach into two other classes toolkits to counter my naked ass boi

#

if that isn't telling of a problem

#

I don't know what is

white cliff
#

But you don’t really gain anything from it, besides being incredible easy to kill. I don’t see the problem, haven’t ran into it.

#

I think the problem is the insane amount of dps with end game gear that’s pretty easy to get.

#

Rogue gear requirement is low.

median thunder
#

I say wizzy is lower

#

Spellbook + shoes

#

your done

white cliff
#

I don’t disagree, but we’re talking about rogue.

oblique wharf
#

I think making Rogue faster is not a good idea. It's already incredibly frustrating to play against a Rogue with map awareness.

#

Giving him more utility to compensate for a damage nerf doesn't sound bad, though. Pocket sand, caltrops, being able to set up trapped dummy items, rocks/noise makers to draw NPCs into enemy groups, etc

median thunder
#

Finally found a clip that sums up why Ranger keeps getting nerfed over and over perfectly - Fully kitted Fighter getting 80% of his hp drained in a single button press by a white longbow

solar smelt
#

Right in your little fucking head I bet

oblique wharf
#

I mean if you're just standing around waiting to get headshot by a class that has aperk that essentially undoes your helmets dmg reduction, you probably deserve that 80%.

bitter stratus
#

I feel like we're assuming a lot about this scenario without seeing whatever clip is being talked about. Generally speaking, people arent standing around and letting someone shoot them in their head.

median thunder
#

Actually no lmao - only reason fighter didn't die was due to DR and two arrows hitting arms

void breach
#

I hadn't had a lot of experience killing anyone as a ranger, but i think some people are just mad because they can't play ranger and get killed by them instead?

oblique wharf
#

Agreed.

void breach
#

I've had a ranger kill me dozens of times, but playing on the other side did make it obvious that it's not a baseless "OP" class.

oblique wharf
#

The second you're in melee ranger is toast

median thunder
#

The issue with Ranger isn't his damage - its the fact that he not only has felling axe damage on a ranged weapon - he has mobility and traps too

void breach
#

Hitting an arrow shot isn't that easy. And Reloading (even if offset by smartly using your skills), Is also a difficulty

median thunder
#

Run Triple Shot and Shotgun

void breach
#

The reduced melee damage doesn't make it much easier, and the fact that there is the Rouge and Wizard to counter him is Pain

median thunder
#

both refill quiver and do full damage

#

congrats your playing quiverless ranger again

oblique wharf
#

They don't 'refill' quiver, they don't consume ammo

#

There's a difference

void breach
#

Umm

#

Potato is right

median thunder
#

They do indeed refill quiver

#

you can cancel the ability after use

void breach
#

When you use a skill, it maxes out your quiver, and then uses your arrows

median thunder
#

and it refills it to full quiver on use

void breach
#

You can use any skill at 0 arrows in quiver, refills your quiver, and then reduces it by the amount of shots the skill consumes

#

hence, you can use the triple shot at 0 arrows, to shoot 3 arrows in quick succession and have 3 more arrows.

median thunder
#

Or you can use it as a reload cancel to continue normal slow spam

void breach
#

Hadn't tried shotgun, but it felt like it was pretty likely it'd do the same

median thunder
#

and when you have both skills and rotate back and forth with them you essentially never have to reload quiver

oblique wharf
#

I could have sworn I didn't have ammo consumptionon use, but I usually wasn't using it at 0 ammo

void breach
#

In any case. I think ranger is good, but not Over powered. A ranger doesn't have much way to stop someone rushing them - as long as they aren't running straight, and keep watch of grates a ranger can get free potshots from

#

And I know the map is Straight corridors

median thunder
#

Hit X - Run away - close door

void breach
#

but you have plenty of space to move left and right

median thunder
#

your the second fastest class

#

and you don't wear much slowdown gear

void breach
#

And Other classes have ranged abilities. And you don't NEED to chase a ranger at all, either.

oblique wharf
#

-40 MS on bows means not having an option to run unless you wanna be defenseless.

void breach
#

Well, Not "Abilities" per say, but ways to do ranged

oblique wharf
#

There's bind, smite, other traps

#

NPCs you aggro

void breach
#

Slow on wizard

oblique wharf
#

And ice

median thunder
#

LMAO

void breach
#

And that's ignoring wizard doing mad aoe

median thunder
#

mans mentioning the worst spell in the game

#

ice bolt is literally slower then fireball

oblique wharf
#

But if you don't wanna nuke your 2 barbs going into a ranger

#

you just ice bolt

void breach
#

The fact that Potato thinks a projectile being slow is a disadvantage, makes me think he never did enjoy playing a wizard.

#

A fast and slow projectile has their own positives and negatives

finite tide
#

Should keep adventurer system as it’s really good however skele skins need to be remove entirely imo

median thunder
#

Oh I love wizzy - I just enjoy zap for killing rangers far more

#

hitscan

void breach
#

fast means responsive and accurate.

median thunder
#

mostly fast cast time

#

40 damage and can headshot

void breach
#

Slow means something that makes your opponent have to watch out for it for longer

#

While you cast Other spells behind it.

median thunder
#

so you can consistently 2 to 3 shot rangers with it

oblique wharf
#

Zap is good because it does damage, no one is using Ice Bolt for dps

void breach
#

In any case. Ranger is good.

#

I'd consider letting other classes use the Bear trap too, though

bitter stratus
#

icebolt is all about the slow, though the damage isnt bad.

void breach
#

Slower set-up time is plenty of a tradeoff for their ability to use it at all

#

in the 12 hours i had to play the game, i've never come across someone using a trap against me.

#

But they are a massive boon to solo-play Ranger against parties.

oblique wharf
#

Considering traps can self trigger and friendly fire

void breach
#

Yes? and?

oblique wharf
#

They're as much a worry for you as your enemy

#

You mess up and don't dodge it you're also dead

void breach
#

That's on you and your allies. Not on the Traps themselves, in my opinion

#

If you aren't good with them, just don't use them

#

But don't forbid others from exploiting the tool

oblique wharf
#

Never said they were bad, I'm saying that's why you didn't see them

void breach
#

being able to set up a trap when i'm pressured by a team of three players as a solo ranger, to run away while they bother around the door, is a great thing for me

oblique wharf
#

Once you're pushed from literally any enemy is too much for most players, I guarantee you. That's all I was saying.

void breach
#

And the roughly higher movement speed lets me manouver and aggro monsters on my way out to make it harder to chase me down

#

I like the ability to disengage from fights

median thunder
#

you'd love surv bow then Bor

#

basically no movespeed penalty

void breach
#

Having that ability as a solo player, makes being a solo player not only more viable, but more comfort.

median thunder
#

and any random hit you get with it gives you hitslow

void breach
#

I actually prefer the recurve, tbh

solar smelt
#

Skill issues all around

void breach
#

I don't mind the movement speed reduction

#

If you let the opponent get into melee in the first place, it means you played it wrong

#

Although. . . Rouges

#

They just come out from nowhere, and they don't even play for keeps

oblique wharf
#

That's the point of playing one, though.

median thunder
#

I'd recommend Barb more for new players though - so long as they equip the fear ability and respect monster swings he's easy to bank up cash and xp on

void breach
#

They just pop in on me and my bud, stab me till i swing around to kill them, and then i die with them.

#

Because poison vs stabby stab

split vessel
#

bear traps definitely the most cringe part of ranger imo, had one camper who put traps all over the final zone

median thunder
#

Did that last playtest when tower room was in rotation

#

funniest thing ever

split vessel
#

its giga dumb that there is no counter play to it

median thunder
#

2 story tower in the center of a pit room with four bridges for access to final zone

split vessel
#

other than avoiding the trap

median thunder
#

8+ traps on every bridge

#

and this was no quiver full longbow damage ranger days

void breach
#

I understand what rouges are about, and it's fine for them to be strong. But come on. At least do it to Kill me smartly. Not Suicide into me just to make me and my friend's time worse ;_;

oblique wharf
#

I agree you should be able to chuck torches and whatnot to trigger them

split vessel
#

anyone know if traps can be destroyed, like by a fire ball or something?

void breach
#

I mean, Trap's purpose is to be annoying. But more ways to disarm them would be nice. Except - Torch vs trap feels a bit TOO cheap.

cosmic vigil
#

if they make the mage light spell reveal stealth it will balance alot

oblique wharf
void breach
#

I would disagree

split vessel
#

torch on trap but torch destroyed

median thunder
#

Naked Punch Rogue Disagrees

split vessel
#

and start with 1 torch not 3

solar smelt
#

You should be able to swing and hit them like in mordhau, but I don’t think you can atm

median thunder
#

I spent an entire day doing that

void breach
#

You don't rush a 3-man as a solo rouge, seeing 2 wizards with fully charged fireballs.

#

Not unless you have a deathwish

median thunder
#

where my only goal was to spawnrush and punch as many people possible

void breach
#

and it happened so many times.

median thunder
#

Tasty wizards is what I see tehre

#

and likely friendly fire

oblique wharf
#

What's the point at that rate

void breach
#

Being an asshole

#

i imagine

median thunder
#

^

oblique wharf
#

No extract and no xp cause cap is easy to hit

median thunder
#

hes not wrong

#

but the real reason was to get Rogue tweaked

#

because I did that with fists

solar smelt
#

Naked brewmaster cleric is the most satisfying gameplay

median thunder
#

and consistently would pick 2 out of 3 people in a 3 man

void breach
#

I personally like Clerics and Rangers.

#

Hadn't had time to play fighter, barba and Rouge myself

median thunder
#

barbs fun

#

Fighter is just worse ranger but with DR

oblique wharf
#

If clerics had more weapon options I'd consider them my favorite.

void breach
#

But Wizard feels a little clunky. Somehow, the staff range on melee seems too low, and the damage on spells feels unclear.

solar smelt
#

Flanged mace is s tier

oblique wharf
#

Small bonk stick or big bonk stick isn't great feeling IMO

median thunder
#

The issue your feeling with spell damage is that AI have very high health pools

#

compared to players

solar smelt
#

Warmaul needs an overhead attack though

void breach
#

melee combat feels a bit unresponsive, but i think it may be just the problem of having little to no ability to practice and get familiar with it

median thunder
#

so wizard spells feel terrible against AI aside from ignite and missile

void breach
#

Also. No real way to block arrows to the head or stabs agaisnt your toes.

jolly trellis
#

I think groups could be 4-5 players

oblique wharf
#

I would never use Wizard spells on AI unless absolutely necessary

void breach
#

No matter how high you aim your Heather shield, The arrow always gonna hit your face. . .

oblique wharf
#

You can AOE an entire room with Cleric for free

solar smelt
median thunder
#

Wizard has meditate

#

your trading clear speed for a bit of downtime

#

honestly if your willing to full send spam wizard has the fastest clear time of any room

#

its just the downtime afterwards that sucks

oblique wharf
#

Buff your allies damage if you wanna do that. If you wanna clear as wiz effectively you have to AOE, meaning no melee can interact.

median thunder
#

but you have friends to loot the smoking corpses while you enjoy your pipe

void breach
#

Oh, Wraiths. I love cleric because i hate wraiths and champions

median thunder
#

Magic Missile is wizards best PVE spell and has no AOE?

solar smelt
#

Clear times are a joke when cleaving is so easy, with a white spear and some simple pathing you can clear rooms in a few hits

void breach
#

4 Holy Lights + prayer + couple swings to drop one as a cleric

inland pelican
void breach
#

That goes up to like. 500+Something damage.

oblique wharf
#

The issue with MM is that it doesn't have AOE for clearing. You can kill 1 dude at a time with it

#

May as well have a barb 2 headshot whatever you're hitting

void breach
#

And Unless you want to risk trying to melee out with them, With all your loot, and little to no practice in actually blocking in the game. . .

#

well

#

oof

#

gotta dish out those spell/miracle slots if you want a safe fight with a champion or wraith

oblique wharf
#

The effeciency with clearing wizard is the AOE.

void breach
#

That's why i wish for some training room so you can practice the basic game mechanics

#

Like blocking, or side-stepping attacks

median thunder
#

Aleph... you know that base skeletons have around 150+ hp right?

void breach
#

It took me 10 hours of gameplay to realize you can side-step the wraith's lunge

median thunder
#

So a direct hit with a fireball takes 2 to 3 of them to kill one skeleton

#

so what AOE are you refering too?

#

because the splash on ball is a whopping 20 damage

void breach
#

I'm not sure you're correct Potato, but maybe i'm just misremembering

oblique wharf
#

Wiz fireball + cleric smite kills pretty much everything in floor 1

void breach
#

I'm certain that at least archers have 100 or less hp. since holy light one-pops them

oblique wharf
#

Not smite, sorry

#

Retribution or w.e

median thunder
#

Archers are squishier sure - but it still takes 2 direct fireballs

void breach
#

honestly, cleric prayer is best for clearing rooms fast, imo

oblique wharf
#

Seriously the long coffin rooms with like 8 skeles

void breach
#

and it's on a cooldown low enough you might even use it twice in a room

#

And it works on Skeles, Wraiths, and Spiders

#

When i realized it worked on spiders, life gained new meaning

oblique wharf
#

Jusr have a rogue aggro and clear in 2 seconds with AOE

loud matrix
oblique wharf
#

VS spending 5 spell slots of MAgic Missile

median thunder
#

You can allready parry with longsword if your good enough

#

and longsword allready has some pretty decent base damage to back it up on its double swing riposte

#

its mostly that what you see isn't what you get with blocking/parrying in this game - longswords actual parry area is basically only the latter half of the blade

loud matrix
#

Ah, good to know.

median thunder
#

hell you can even parry arrows with longsword

#

did that once last playtest

solar smelt
#

I wish a class other than fighter could use longsword

loud matrix
#

That's a bit silly kek.

tribal cradle
#

You can block fireballs with the longsword

median thunder
#

you can do it with spear and bardiche too

#

they both have blocks

#

I.... didn't think about that oc

inland pelican
#

Pally should use longsword if/when it comes out

median thunder
#

but it would proc the effect out away from your body...

tribal cradle
#

You still take splash and DOT but you block the 30 base direct hit damage

#

and it triggers riposte

#

so kinda funny

median thunder
#

Thats Funny as shit

oblique wharf
median thunder
#

I think a few of the classes currently have multiple other classes incorporated into there kits - Rogue having assassin for instance, Cleric having smite

oblique wharf
#

Would feel a little silly to have two nearly identical holy caster fighters

inland pelican
#

Mostly aleph lol

oblique wharf
#

Unless they split Cleric into 2 and turned it into a dedicated casting class

loud matrix
inland pelican
#

Cleric and paladin have always been nearly identical kit-wise, one is tank spot-support, the other is support-spot tank

oblique wharf
#

Buffs, heals, and NPC clear speed where Pally could have auras and PVP focused damage and plate armor

loud matrix
#

No, the difference between Pally and Cleric has traditionally been one is a fighter with a bit of healing, the other a 9th level caster with a bit of fighting.

median thunder
#

just give paladin a very compressed spell list

#

and limited access to fighter weapons

oblique wharf
#

I wouldn't even give Paladins 'spells' like Wiz and Cleric have.

median thunder
#

Hell - make him like fighter in that he needs weapon mastery for fighter weapons

oblique wharf
#

I would give it Q and E as specific casts and focus on auras/temp effects triggered via combat.

inland pelican
#

So q and e that would do auras, smite and "lay on hands"

median thunder
#

Man wants a hammerdin

oblique wharf
#

I think auras would remain as the perks, q and e would be legit spell casts

#

Giving eveyrone +5 armor or w/e doesn't sound crazy OP for that kind of thing

median thunder
#

Q for victory strike (Al la big damage single target attack buff) E for touch attack lay on hands (25 Hp to self with no target - 45 second cooldown)

loud matrix
#

Considering the Barb has a Health buff for everyone around him, I'd say the same design should be applied for Paladin auras.

tribal cradle
#

Doesn't fighter already have victory strike?

oblique wharf
#

Could give goal oriented combat passives to keep gameplay fun

#

Like blocking a certain amount of damage triggers a small dot heal

median thunder
#

I'm saying copy victory strike as paladins smite

#

maybe with more damage against undead or something

#

but no healing component and a lower cooldown because of it

#

and give Paladin a source of sustainable but point blank only party and self healing

#

so he can't compete with the incombat healing of a cleric

#

but still has something to bring the to the table for a comp

#

hell - give paladin an aura heal even - 25 hp over 5 seconds at 5 hp per second in 5 meters

#

25 hp isn't that much hp for classes that are liable to be actually getting hit

inland pelican
#

That regen would negate half a hit

#

Not complaining at all just observing

median thunder
#

50hp a hit is a bit low....

#

considering just a base longsword is like 39ish damage

#

plus the 50% headshot multi

solar smelt
#

It would scale with gear obviously

median thunder
#

since most weapons are quite easy to land headshots with

solar smelt
#

Does ranger ration scale with physical healing?

inland pelican
#

True but I was thinking of mob hit lol

median thunder
#

your getting hit for 50hp by a mob?

#

what the hell is hitting you?

#

I get clapped for like 30ish on my chestless barb

#

by most things

inland pelican
#

Eh less then 50 some swings, more on others, basic skeleton boy

#

You sure it's just 30 on barb? Hp is kinda nuts on them lol

median thunder
#

if it was 50 a swing a rogue would get two shot by skeleton footmans

#

but I consistently recall being able to eat 3 swings on my rogue

#

rogues at like 76ish hp

#

people usually argue with me that I like my healing/vampirism mechanics to be too big

#

never that it doesn't do enough

#

I don't run ration so I don't remember its exact numbers but I think ranger ration is 25 hp a pop - and this pally heal would be essentially a ration for your entire team every minute or so

inland pelican
#

I wasn't arguing lol I think a necro shield should be a buff that gives a shield based off dmg dealt and they should have a buff called vampirism strike that heals based off dmg done

#

Vampiric**

wraith zenith
#

what is it with this guy and vamping as a mechanic

#

I left for 2 hours and came back to the same convo

median thunder
#

No I only mentioned it in passing

wraith zenith
#

oh

#

my b

inland pelican
#

XD

median thunder
#

Current discussion is how to make Pally work as a class

#

People seem to have reached the consensus of wanting some sort of smiting aura based class rather then something that needs casting

#

which sounds fun

vale hound
#

Pally? Is that supposed to be Paladin? So like a mix of cleric and fighter, tanky melee support

finite tide
#

We’re along way from pally

vale hound
#

What about an archeologist with a bullwhip, a fedora and higher chances for great treasure?

oblique wharf
#

We were just talking about paladin lol

#

Long way like 15 mins ago?

vale hound
#

@spiral pollen I've heard the bard class is already beeing worked on.

solar smelt
spiral pollen
#

nice

oblique wharf
vale hound
#

What about a Tourist class, that starts with some gold, an expensive camera and a credit card to open locked doors!

solar smelt
#

I like the idea of a perk that turns cleric into a paladin rather than a separate class

torn violet
#

What exactly is difference between Cleric and Paladin?

dreamy iris
#

Witch doctor inspired by diablo adding blowpipes as another weapon allowing also other classes like fighters with perk and either rogue or ranger using blowpipe. one of witch doctors perks could be poisoned dart tips like rogue poison wep perk. class would specialize more in curses/MC type abilities. short MC on undead n such

vale hound
#

@torn violet The paladin makes themselves worthy of a god's blessings while a cleric is deemed worthy by their god. It's a subtle but important difference. A cleric might not know why they are chosen and are rarely given a singular purpose. Rather, they exist as vessels for their gods to manifest their power and will

dreamy iris
#

I don’t see the point in Paladin simply that cleric is literally 1 or 2 abilities away from being able to build a solid pally with what is given to you

torn violet
vale hound
#

just what i found from dungeons & dragons.

dreamy iris
#

I’d hope that clerics can equip spellbooks in shield slot at some point

vale hound
#

@torn violet What i understand is that
A paladin is a paragon of his god, a godly warrior with high combat abilities. He draws power from his pure faith.
A cleric is a highly religious preacher. He draws power from his understanding of his deity and his ideals. Thats why intelligence is more important for him. He is more a spellcaster than the paladin

torn violet
#

from what I'm reading the cleric in dark and darker could be played as Cleric or Paladin

vale hound
#

thats why i think, there is no way for another paladin class...

torn violet
#

just depends on the player gear

dreamy iris
#

Cleric is literally 1 spell away from being capable of building a strong Paladin spec

#

buffs itself/has a bubble/healing spells/can wear mail armour and use mace/shield 2 handed maces/single target smite and dmg to undead abilities. I’m surprised it’s not already called a Paladin tbh

torn violet
#

do you think dev should split him into 2 classes (deny him some of the current loot and spells)?

dreamy iris
#

if they do that they would have to trim clerics ability of 2hand mace use, probably remove shield use and add spell book in that slot instead. Give cleric more healing to friendly/dmg to unfriendly spells

torn violet
#

that might be great. I hope they test much more stuff next playtest because it might be the last playetst before the early access

vale hound
#

what do you think of my suggestion, i think its interesting for cleric to use less shiel and more/faster spells

dreamy iris
#

if they went in the direction of specifically adding Paladin as it’s own thing I think that would be interesting to see

vale hound
#

He would probably have a skill like the ranger heal, but for team mates too

dreamy iris
#

how do you feel about casters using melee weapons as a primary when fighting pve? if we wanted cleric to berevamped as a more caster type and this goes for wizards too I think more abilities that don’t take charges need to be added. Or what do you think about the addition of wands with a mid range cast attack (kinda like throwing wands in wow) if you wanna keep wizards/clerics using single weps lower the AP of those classes

vale hound
#

I feel that casters, who are designed to use spells commonly have to use melee weapons only when it's strategically better like when you are engaged in close combat or in narrow spaces. That means spells should have advantages over melee. But i don't know how you could do that.

calm orbit
#

#cleark#1429 he is so child and moron 😄 everytime he is responding "skill issue" 😄

trail python
#

@latent flower the first zone we play in is actually the second zone

And in the qna they stated the first sone will turn into the second zone and the 3rd zone will actually be the second zone in final release

fluid cedar
latent flower
#

Oh, so what will actual first zone be like then? I missed the previous play tests @trail python

fluid cedar
#

clear case of skill issue

calm orbit
#

grow up little man

trail python
fluid cedar
trail python
#

The game is gonna be really difficult on full release

#

Which is more of a good thing

latent flower
#

My solo Barbarian wiping squads and killing 8+ people per run didn't think it was so tough anyway @trail python

calm orbit
trail python
fluid cedar
calm orbit
#

yeah skill issue when i used this skill to wiped all teams

fluid cedar
#

good for you

latent flower
#

@trail python I stuck to normals and played solo with a lot of different classes, only did a few solo Rogue HR runs

trail python
loud matrix
# vale hound just what i found from dungeons & dragons.

In classic D&D (anything before 4E), Paladin and Cleric are vastly different classes that fulfill different roles. The inverse of what you said is true:
You cannot choose to become a Paladin. In fact, you cannot take levels in Paladin if you multiclass. Paladin is unique in having that restriction.
The reason is because Paladin is someone chosen by their God, while a Cleric is someone who chose to serve their God.
Both are vessels doing their God's bidding.

In gameplay, the two serve vastly different roles. Paladin is primarily a fighter with 4th level magic, some additional protection and other neat features while a Cleric isn't that great a fighter, but has access to 9th level magic without being as helpless without their spells as a Wizard or Sorcerer would be.
For reference: At 20th level, Paladin gets +20 to weapon attack rolls, while Cleric gets +15 and Wizard +10.

calm orbit
#

no, it wasnt good for me but bad for game. your little brain cant understand it

fluid cedar
#

get better

calm orbit
#

troll alert

latent flower
#

@trail python I was learning the game, and by the end solo normal felt balanced or easy at times. It would've been effortless in a 3man. But what you were saying is that there's another level missing? That there's supposed to be an easier one added?

#

Or harder, I didn't understand

ruby sphinx
#

I'm so confused, why do people not want a more team oriented extraction? I didn't think people would want the "every man for himself" style of extract we have now

trail python
loud matrix
latent flower
#

Ye, so there's meant to be another red portal to take from level 2 to level 3? @trail python

#

@ruby sphinx A lot of blues spawn next to each other, so squads need to secure them. Group escape portals were in last playtest I think

vale hound
#

@loud matrix Yes, thats what i heard, i mixed that up lol, i actually never played D&D but i really want to play it. But i have some knowledge from reading half of the forgotten realms wiki and by playing games that have d&d content

latent flower
#

There's a bit of a gameplay direction where they want the possibility of a solo snatching a group's single blue portal and messing up their extract and potentially dooming 1 player @ruby sphinx

trail python
latent flower
#

I don't actually know what bell is @trail python one of the boss rooms in the first level currently?

trail python
#

It takes you to a red dungeon with fire dogs and stuff

ruby sphinx
#

Ah, I missed the last playtest. That's a fair reason to not do group portals. I just noticed a whole lot of groups of two portals and a third being relatively far away. Maybe just bad luck

latent flower
#

Oh hell, not bell

trail python
#

Sorry lol

latent flower
#

@ruby sphinx I've seen a lot of people just run to a blue in 3mans, I assume they're random groups from Discord that cared more about the loot than the party

torn locust
#

@wind tusk you dont realise this is a hardcore game.

trail python
vale hound
#

In my first run with my friends, we got to the hell level, just because we didn't know that there are blue portals to leave completely XD

trail python
#

Usually person with most loot or best gear gets the first one and the other 2 try and secure 2 more

ruby sphinx
#

Yeah thats a situation I've gotten into a lot. Have somebody take the good stuff for next run and get them a portal. Then the other two hope to come across a couple

trail python
#

^ yup

#

You can always buy stuff for each other too

latent flower
#

Yeah but it looked like they were just abandoning the group with little cohesion

ruby sphinx
#

I've had a couple where we pre opened a portal in case we lose a fight and I strafe into it lol

wind tusk
trail python
#

@torn locust honestly that’d make pvp more fun

trail python
#

Solo

#

I mean mage and ranger do it with 1 skill

ruby sphinx
trail python
#

Literally ran with a friend who used one quick shot to kill 3 people with one arrow each

trail python
#

Lightning bolt oneshots players almost everytime

#

And fireball 2 shots the entire group

torn locust
latent flower
#

Solo is challenging but not impossible. I do think there needs to be a little more incentive for playing solo tho as 3manning just makes the game ez

trail python
#

Other games give you a loot bonus

#

So this one should just increase how much what you bring out is worth solo

spice pawn
winged girder
#

the bonus loot for running solo is you get the loot your teammates would be picking up

trail python
#

And that’s one of thier good systems

latent flower
#

You can't have a loot bonus since you could kinda team up with your friends in Discord but not in-game party and still all get more loot

trail python
#

And you can get banned for that

vale hound
#

I have noticed people don't like bear traps. So why not a ranger perk, that when you die, you place a bear trap immediatly where you are. Just because people will hate it!

winged girder
#

devs have already said game is tuned towards non solo play

trail python
latent flower
#

I like traps, I stepped into 50% of my own

loud matrix
gray vessel
#

@simple bluff What's to stop duos from just tk'ing you and taking your gear

simple bluff
#

i dont go with gear

#

lol

#

only felling axe

#

like true chad

spice pawn
#

The semi-unpredictable body blocking that happens when you're hovering over the spider mummy collision mesh (which is apparently a gigantic cylinder 2-3 times their visible in-game height) is what seemed to really piss people off

clear fox
#

-STOP ALL CHEESE
-MAKE WRAITHS FLY LIKE DEATHSKULLS
-GIVE CHAMPIONS AND CENTAUR A LEAPING ATTACK
-GIVE SKELETONS THROWING AXES
-MAKE ZOMBIES PROJECTILE PUKE
-ALLOW SPIDERS TO CLIMB ON WALLS
-INCREASE SPEED AND AGRO RANGE OF HELLHOUNDS. LET THEM JUMP HIGH AND FAR.

trail python
trail python
#

They mentioned cheese will be impossible after the ai tweaks

white cliff
latent flower
#

@clear fox Sounds like something you'd put in suggestions, I like stopping the cheese, flying Wraiths and the spiders climbing stuff

#

@spice pawn Spiders worst enemy

vale hound
#

@trail python but that perk would be fun. Because the trap will be inside your corpse and players getting stuck in that cannot free themselfes because the corpse is in the way and they are trapped forever! I'm evil

gray vessel
white cliff
#

Sliders are the worst enemy? 😂

spice pawn
#

Add the butcher from Diablo 1. Direct rip. No fear of* IP theft.

When butcher kills players, he'll take the corpse and hang it on a hook in his chamber. That way, when you stumble into him later in the round, you get to admire all his work

latent flower
#

Spiders were the worst for me, skelly archers a close second

loud matrix
trail python
ruby sphinx
#

Spiders have the power of jank hitboxes

latent flower
#

Yes

trail python
#

@torn locust I think getting betrayed by your teammates is an actual gameplay mechanic that’s intended

simple bluff
spice pawn
#

jumping over spiders triggers series of hover/bouncing as the player character bounces against the spider hitbox over and over. it's a tad unpredictable, and a lot of the times you get stuck mid-air bouncing repeatedly (which is strangely similar to a CC rooting ability), and we all know CC rooting outright robs players of agency

torn locust
#

but like my friend said he got teamkilled by his teammate as soon as they started.

#

not just left behind or anything like that

trail python
trail python
gray vessel
#

might as well just duo

simple bluff
#

thats the whole point

latent flower
#

Random 3mans with VOIP is gonna be great

simple bluff
#

they can get trashed by a 3 people team too

#

their choice

spice pawn
#

I hope they take into account that the pool of players that even bother to peruse the suggestions thread is a subset of a subset of a subset of total players (not a random draw, meaning unlikely to be representative of total player population opinions).

What the voting does gauge, however, is sentiment amongst DnD players who bothered to join the Discord, took the time to read through the suggestions thread (and even then, usually not most of the suggestions), and actually made the conscious decision to vote on individual suggestions. There's a big self-selection bias component going into those up/down counts

gray vessel
latent flower
#

I think for the most part, the devs already know what they want to do with the game, they've already made such a uniquely designed experience

#

AKA they won't listen to the vocal kids that want shared stashes, solo que etc

spice pawn
white cliff
torn violet
#

stepping on spiders should kill them 😂

gray vessel
torn locust
#

the playtest may have been called an Alpha but it was a Beta.

simple bluff
#

when early access will be open ?

gray vessel
torn violet
simple bluff
#

how much is planned it to be ? 20$ ? 40$

#

100$

torn violet
#

I don't think they talked about price

trail python
rough elm
#

Isn't it next years Q4 ? Idk where people are getting this info that it will be released at Q1-Q2 lol ( Didn't see that it will be early access at Q1-Q2 shit we won't need wait for long then (::: )

trail python
#

They are too big to step on

torn locust
#

1: hope its not going to be f2p
2: hope it wont have ingame purchases.

trail python
#

Spiders that big in real life would be extremely hard to kill

torn violet
simple bluff
trail python
white cliff
torn locust
#

nice

latent flower
#

@trail python Real spider mummys wouldn't be THAT hard to kill, let's be honest

trail python
torn violet
trail python
#

Not a joke

torn locust
#

damn

simple bluff
#

in game purchase as in cosmetics right ? lol

trail python
#

Yea

torn locust
trail python
#

Revenue from sales only lasts so long

#

Eventually that money dries up and you can’t update your game anymore

jagged cobalt
trail python
loud matrix
#

@lunar jewel D&D style games never have Haste on the Cleric. Always Wizard.

latent flower
#

I just hope all the massive free playtests don't hurt the game's sales. Like some people might just have played enough during all the free time

trail python
#

Literally the whole idea is trash

torn violet
trail python
latent flower
#

@jagged cobalt It would make the trading pointless as you can just find loot for your other characters first of all

simple bluff
trail python
#

Like hands down

#

Uncontested

simple bluff
#

+1

torn locust
#

there was that one guy in the steam forum that picked up a fight as a Rogue against a Barbarian and complained about losing the 1v1. 🤡

trail python
#

The pvp is what keeps games like this alive

latent flower
#

But Rogue can't lose to Barb

trail python
#

The inteeeactions with players creat a new experience every time you play

trail python
#

If you look at how rogue is designed it’s a tank killer class

#

All thier damage pierces armor

#

Like complestly ignores your armor

#

It’s like that in most games

simple bluff
#

which is weird since a knife cant do shit to a plate armor

trail python
#

Guild wars 2 the biggest counter to guardians (the main tank) is poison/bleed rogue

simple bluff
#

and if it cant to shit how it even poisons lol

trail python
simple bluff
#

yeah thats why plate armor is invented

jagged cobalt
latent flower
#

I'm sad I never really got to test magic dmg Rogue. Additional magic dmg increased poison dmg directly, so with like +20 magic dmg your poisons would be ticking for 21 each stack per second

trail python
loud matrix
#

Arguably, the knife killed more knights than any other weapon.
Fighting someone in plate armour historically is more akin to a wrestling match, though, since that only really works when someone is helpless to defend against it, such as on the ground.
And yes, you CAN break someone's arm while they're wearing plate.

trail python
simple bluff
#

to be honest if all characters have will and knowledge they all can lol

jagged cobalt
trail python
#

The useless buffs on weapons like +1 spell power on an arming sword arnt useless they just arnt added yet. Eventually all classes can use abilities from other classes

trail python
latent flower
#

@jagged cobalt Yes but trading will still be 99.9% about trading with other random people. I also hope the stash never gets expanded (too much) so people can't just hoard hundreds of epic/legendary sets of armor and weapons

trail python
#

Look at the qna

torn locust
#

hardcore does not has to mean extreme difficulty. its often the design choices that makes it hardcore. a shared stash would be the opposite of a hardcore game

trail python
#

All classes will be able to use p much every skill in the game

loud matrix
#

The class descriptions also specifically state as a drawback of the fighter that he can't use spells.

trail python
#

A barb could go invis and haste himself for example

jagged cobalt
trail python
#

Yea

latent flower
#

That's interesting and a little concerning

trail python
#

They are adding things like gems that give you other class skills you equip alongside your regular skills

latent flower
#

Wizard with Barb 15% move speed + 12% haste

#

seems balanced

jagged cobalt
#

Dev qna?

trail python
#

Yes

#

There’s been like 7 of them

#

Tells you everything you could ever want to know about the future of the game

simple bluff
#

i heard there is going to be 13 classes is that correct?

trail python
#

Bard is next

torn locust
#

so many people with suggestions dont realise this is a hardcore game.

trail python
#

Monk was also discussed

#

That’s at least 3 more classes we know are coming

#

Anything more than that I think is a mystery for now

latent flower
#

So what are some of your guys' expectations for the next play test, since it's planned for not even 1.5 months from now?

#

Someone mentioned Druid

torn locust
#

has anyone here fought the Lich in the playtest?

trail python
trail python
torn locust
#

When i saw it i noped the hell outta that room

trail python
#

So 4 more classes at least

latent flower
#

I saw a little in the QnA but nothing concrete

glacial bridge
#

we fought the lich, went through like 5 heals and dipped

trail python
#

There was tons of concrete stuff

glacial bridge
#

didnt kill him

ruby sphinx
#

I got touched by a purple ball and died

trail python
#

New maps, new weapons, new skills, new ai, all being added next pkaytest for sure

white cliff
trail python
#

I mean there’s a reason 90% of the leaderboard kills were ranger

#

And 98% for the ghost king

glacial bridge
trail python
#

Both bosses were intentionally op

white cliff
#

Probably for the best, they’re not like any other enemy.

trail python
#

Ghost king can aoe one shot your entire team in one hit in full orange gear

#

They just arnt worried about game balance rn

white cliff
#

That’s if you fail the dps check.

simple bluff
#

@gray vessel we might need crit chance attribute for that too

trail python
torn locust
white cliff
#

The teleport one shots you? What kind of gear where you trying to do it with.

trail python
#

There’s a reason there were only 13 total ghost king clears after the last wipe

white cliff
latent flower
#

Also, that one loading screen where it shows a group fighting a DRAGON EyesRight

trail python
white cliff
latent flower
#

Dragons should be in every game

simple bluff
#

dnd isnt a dnd without a dragon anyway

white cliff
#

13 seems reasonable.

trail python
#

So…

#

Ghost king might be a bit op

white cliff
#

But does that have to do with difficulty or the chance of it spawning.

trail python
#

It’s a 50% chance

#

There’s only 2 maps

#

So difficulty for sure when you have 50k daily players

torn locust
#

love to play Cleric but if your teammates are a bit clueless then you can do only this much.

gray vessel
simple bluff
#

which might be good and nightmarish

#

for wizard and barb

white cliff
simple bluff
#

they can truly one shot this time

latent flower
#

Now that you mention it, I wonder why Rogue didn't have a crit stat, but then there was backstab and ambush

glacial bridge
#

i hate crit as a stat. we already have headshots

trail python
glacial bridge
#

rather see rogue get more tactics to do his burst damage

trail python
#

But he literally oneshots you in full orange plate

#

Do you know how much armor and health that is

#

And you get one tapped

glacial bridge
#

ide be happy if rogue had a higher than 50% headshot multiplier at the cost of reduced base damage

white cliff
#

Depends on your rolls I suppose.

trail python
#

They literally ignore armor

#

100% of your armor

#

Poison and bleed are not effected by gear

latent flower
#

Poison is by magic resist

gray vessel
stiff jungle
#

as a player who knows nothing about the game i played wizard and found myself useless after i finished my attack spells cause i didnt know how to get my spells back faster

trail python
trail python
simple bluff
#

lol barb literally have 100 magic res perk

white cliff
glacial bridge
#

barb can stack mag res easily

trail python
#

Infact most of the time they have -magic resist

latent flower
#

Barb has passive like 30% magic resist

trail python
stiff jungle
trail python
white cliff
trail python
#

Lightning bolt oneshots barbs with the magic resist perk

glacial bridge
#

you say it doesnt exist. people respond that it does exist. then you say its useless.. smh some people are not worth talking to

stiff jungle
trail python
white cliff
#

It feels like he’s doing a lot of talking at people, not having a conversation.

torn locust
#

Man the Wizard was the first class i tried but had no clue how to play him. figured he is only good in PvP.

trail python
stiff jungle
ancient briar
torn locust
#

yeah but like he can only use spells so often. after those then what?

solar smelt
#

Meditate

stiff jungle
#

i would meditate but only get one spell back

trail python
#

Like lightning bolt oneshots players but does nothing to ai meanwhile zap can 2 tap headshot or oneshot most ai but is bad against players

torn locust
#

You can replenish spells?

trail python
#

Magic misfile kills everything in one spell but bad against players

trail python
solar smelt
#

Wizard is pretty lack luster in pve without meditating though but each class does need a weakness

trail python
#

They just sit down and get all spells back

torn locust
#

<-🤡

simple bluff
trail python
stiff jungle
#

WHAAAAAAAT

torn locust
#

to be fair i only gave him one chance and it was in september when i had no clue about the game yet.

trail python
elfin vigil
#

Bro if u say wiz is good in PVE you’re either trolling or never tried wiz

#

This is literally the worst pve class

white cliff
stiff jungle
#

YOURE TELLING ME I DIDNT HAVE TO FIGHT WITH ONE SPELL T_T T_T

trail python
simple bluff
#

at least it has a spectre to break shit

solar smelt
ancient briar
#

I'm maining the Wizard so I know what I say. There's no other class that can take down wraith as fast as he does. And if you really want, you can also use crystal sword with ignite, and suddenly you hit harder than a fighter will

simple bluff
#

while i tried that with my rogue

#

oh god....

glacial bridge
#

meditate gives you % spell recharge. 4 full meditates will restore 5 fireballs, but give you like 15 Zaps

torn locust
#

i like The Cleric cuz he is good in PvE and dont has to be frontline against players haha.

elfin vigil
#

Zap sucks ass to clear mind

white cliff
elfin vigil
#

Mobs

trail python
solar smelt
#

Frontline brewmaster cleric is the only way to play

white cliff
ancient briar
simple bluff
stiff jungle
white cliff
#

Please don’t frontline as cleric lol.

torn locust
stiff jungle
#

by the time you do all those meditates the games already at the finish

torn locust
#

of course im right behind the warrior

trail python
trail python
ancient briar
#

You can easily go in solo wizard, clear rooms solo and fight 3 member squads solo. What you want more from this class if not nerf?

torn locust
#

i never stood behind my ranger or wizard

trail python
#

Clerics that stand in the back are useless, they just get headshot while healing

torn locust
#

as a cleric

white cliff
#

You’re a suedo tank who has a 20 and 35 instant heal and insane buffs, you shouldn’t be letting your team die because you want to front line.

trail python
white cliff
#

Jesus this guy.

glacial bridge
#

positioning is entirely dependent on your team comp and the enemies team comp. experience is knowing how to set up an advantaged place.

many cases Clerics should be in front, many cases they should be way back

trail python
torn locust
#

if i were to make a frontline tier list for the classes. Cleric would be after the Fighter and Barbar.

white cliff
#

I’ve been top 100 both play tests not sure what you’re smoking my guy.

#

😂

trail python
#

Only top 100?

#

Unlucky

jagged cobalt
#

Imagine a dragon boss that requires at least 6 players to defeat. Two teams would have to work together to down it. Or something to that nature.

trail python
#

I’d rather kill the team and leave the boss at that rate fuck helping people

cobalt zinc
#

imagine dragon

jagged cobalt
#

Lol

white cliff
#

Just another player full of bad opinions.

trail python
#

See an opinion insinuates it’s wrong

#

When all I’ve stated are facts

loud matrix
#

I can imagine one reason to backline as a cleric off the top of my head.
Other players will focus you because you're the healer.

stiff jungle
#

i would position my self in the middle of a V so im in the back throwing spells and my mates hold them off then once i wasted my spells then we attack aggressive together, or at least thats what my thought of tactic was but they expected me to fight from behind them and not be able to shoot spells cause theyre in the way

trail python
white cliff
#

You want cleric to frontline and not utilize buffs when 99% of the time that leads to losing fights.

#

End game is spacing and stat checking. Instant heals and buffs make or break fights.

trail python
#

Right… which you can do while fighting

#

If the enemy cleric is fighting and yours isn’t you instantly lose

jagged cobalt
#

You would have to help each other to down the boss then immediately go to pvp

#

Haha

white cliff
#

What the hell are you smoking lmao.

torn locust
#

of course it depends on the situation (for example if rogue is trying to ambush) but thats how i would put the classes frontline wise.
1:Fighter & Barbar
2:Cleric
3:Rogue
4:Ranger
5:Wizard

trail python
white cliff
#

I just provided 3x health bars and my barb/wizard killed everyone while their cleric mindlessly swung.

glacial bridge
#

i love the thought that you must use the same tactics against every situation. this is the dumbest convo possible

trail python
#

And cleric resist the main meta form of rogue damage

trail python
torn locust
trail python
#

Like it takes less than a second to buff your whole team

#

If it takes any longer your doing somthing wrong

glacial bridge
white cliff
#

It takes less than a second to drop three buffs then heal them for incoming damage? Damn what insane spell book did you pick up.

torn locust
white cliff
#

The AOE insane book?

trail python
#

It’s ok to be bad at the game

torn locust
#

im trying to be logically and of course if im wrong then im wrong. and i wont mind at all if someone corrects me

white cliff
#

My guy played norms and watched streams and think he’s DnD Jesus. 😂

trail python
#

Bruh high roller every match

#

It’s the only way to play

#

People who only play for norms are missing out

torn locust
stiff jungle
#

AM I IN THE WRONG??: me and my mates heard a team from a door, my rogue mate was to my left side by the door opening it, my cleric mate was behind me/ to my side on the right, my rogue opens the door and i had prepped a fireball (which is loud) and wait until the door was open to pre fire, my rogue opens the door and immediately gets to the door and starts fighting, i had called for him to back up when he opened the door, so i ended hitting him then he died and i told my cleric to back up and i hit them with another fireball, he pushes for some reason and i accidentally hit im and he died in the process of fighting the team, (i can understand the second time was my fault)

white cliff
#

No shit but you have some absolutely misinformed opinions for playing high roller every game.

jagged cobalt
#

Was high roller really that much better than normal?

stiff jungle
#

sorry if my wording is azz but yeah

white cliff
trail python
#

Nah I just like to win and hate when my cleric does jack shit and stands in the back chanting the entire time
The entire point of that class is to be the center of your team not the back line.
A truly good cleric does what they do while fighting and I refuse to play with any cleric who isn’t skilled enough to do so

jagged cobalt
#

In terms of loot and pvp?

trail python
#

High roller was the end game

white cliff
#

I’m not saying to never fight, but you absolutely miss me along opportunities if you’re trying to swing your mace and frontline every time time.

vestal plinth
#

Here are my suggestions to improve the game:
1- add Ultimate abilities (for example, something like Mercys ressurection from Overwatch)
2- add mythical rarity equipment that everyone has access to upon starting a game, similar to mythical items in League of Legends (this will reduce the power gap between geared and ungeared players)
3- Give solo players a buff, something that will even the odds between solo and party players (for example, a 100% damage and hp increase if you play solo)
Thoughts?

white cliff
#

The game comes down to gear checks and spacing, if I can give me team straight up stats, that wins fights period.

glacial bridge
# stiff jungle sorry if my wording is azz but yeah

mishaps will happen often, one thing to note is that a staff will fire spells from the center and a book will cast from your right side. gotta get on the same wavelength with your friends somehow and you gotta get there through experience and repetition. dont really matter whos fault

stiff jungle
vestal plinth
#

mathematically a 3 player party does 200% more damage than a solo player. this will close the gap.

white cliff
#

Anyways I’m done with arguing with the furry, I’m all set. 👍

glacial bridge
stiff jungle
jagged cobalt
#

300%

stiff jungle
#

only on daggers

#

imagine Skull

trail python
stiff jungle
trail python
#

Yes and if they arnt listening you have to play around that

loud matrix
#

"Get out of the fire."

torn locust
stiff jungle
#

but that is how a wizard should play right ?

trail python
#

Or find better friends

stiff jungle
#

be the middle support ?

trail python
#

Fireball isn’t even the best spell for pvp