suggestion-discussion

[foggy moth]

Yeah, I definitely agree, I did suggest that.

[small tendon]

smdh haters the lot of you

[atomic depot]

can we add an "extra backpack storage" perk to either cleric or wizard. i play them both as support. and its annoying to have to pick up your teams loot if they die,

[trail drift]

tell ur team to git gud

[atomic depot]

and then trying to keep all your stuff. there are times where i have to empty my whole backpack jst to grab there stuff lol

[small oxide]

IN THE FUTURE: DURABILITY SYSTEM SO PEOPLE DON'T STACK UNIQUE GEAR AND PUBSTOMP IN NORMAL LOBBIES

[hollow sentinel]

it's on the way

[vernal siren]

Hi i have just been scammed for 600 gold in the trader is there anyway to find out which player did it to me?????

[tropic anchor]

Not really sure how to fix or what to suggest frankly but I'm frustrated with some collision. I definitely know some of it is my own positioning and map awareness. I'd be interested to see if anything gets changed in terms of unit collision (normally post hit--e.g. dead by daylight).

[onyx cradle]

For the solo/group queue suggestions. I think Hunt: Showdown did it fairly nicely. If you are solo or duo you'll only face other solo and duos unless you opt in to also face trios. And if you are in a trio you'll face other trios and duo/solos that have opted to face trios. It helps a lot.

Another thing on the starting gear. I think there should be a 'starting gear vendor' that lets you buy trash tier of any weapon so you can start with whatever you want to use, instead of being forced to use only x weapon or pay.

[daring raven]

literally i loses some items in a row cause im playing solo and doing vs to a party of 2-3 ppl, its so unfair, they just chases you and you have 0 chances to survive.
Another edit: till this change im not gonna play solo anymore.. sadge cause i was having so much fun with the game, i'll just wait to my friends and play in a party till this changes.

[verbal swift]

After you left a raid, you can rejoin a "spectate" for when your teammates go low

[narrow oriole]

There's actually quite a few number of advantages to solo-play that aren't present in a team. The main one being stealth. Being a single person guarantees that you are in 100% control of how quiet you are when fighting monsters. Sure, a party might be able to clear a room faster if they coordinate 100% but not much faster than a skilled solo player.

However, this also depends on the class you choose to play solo.

Rangers, Clerics, Fighters and Rogues are the best solo classes because they have a lot of self-sufficient abilities that make room-clearing quick while being able to effectively take on multiple people.

As a rogue: You can easily set up ambushes and bum rush one person to kill them(if you're good), then smoke bomb to guarantee an escape.

[jaunty shoal]

HERE'S A WONDERFUL IDEA!!!!! Keep the make the playtest constant! Add patch updates as you may! Star Citizen is doing it! EFT is in BETA still!! People absolutely love this game. Release what you have as OPEN ALPHA and introduce things as you go along! Everyone would absolutely love this.

[tender palm]

Wonderful idea, small problem though, the smoke bomb is pretty useless and all of the other abilities are better.

[daring raven]

im not sure 100% about this. Cause you cant expect ALL people be good as solo players. Even with these ideas, its obviously the advantage with a good party well comunicated against a solo player. Put the situation, both sides are good, one player is solo and the other ones are a party, who will wins? Obviously the party. The map is so close, and you're limited, by opening the doors etc... The situations could be different but from my pov, when you've got a closed map, you are very limited and more if you have to do actions likely open doors, skills, recharge (in the pov of a ranger) There're a ton of situations of what can happen in the game, but you cant base everything just in a few advantage, when the other side will have always more advantages than you.

[rigid vortex]

Smoke bomb is pretty handy if used right.

[knotty kindle]

Add proximity chat, with voice distance the same as base foot step distance

[humble marlin]

I feel like the best way to balance barbs is to give them the ability to hold their swing

[shrewd lantern]

@daring raven well only mages can make cool outplays vs trio now days and if u are rogue or other melee u are dead 99% time i think we need more cool skills on melee classes so u can do outplays and make fun combat

[fierce hemlock]

All melee characters should be able to "hold" their attacks. It's an integral part of real weapons combat.
Same with shields. They weren't used separately to the weapon, they were used together as 1.

[daring raven]

Tbh just separate solo from parties and thats all

[torn crescent]

Let Barbarians have a perk so they can dual wield a 1H axe and a torch. This would give them more utility as they feel lacking relative to other classes in that category, it also seems to make sense in terms of lore.

[daring raven]

I would like to see separated queues form solo or parties then the classes can get 2 playstyles. maybe its too much work for them but it could be so cool the balance and the difference between solo and parties queue.

[hollow sentinel]

honestly the game would be way too easy with solo/duo + duo/trio queues, having teammates can be a massive crutch and losing one teammate but being forced into the same pool as all the veteran solo players? nutty

[lilac barn]

Let me buy a gold sack that holds 1k gold and make zones slower especially in hell

[lilac vale]

Devs made it pretty clear that they weren't interested in doing a solo queue and while at first I thought that was a shame, after playing most of the playtest solo I now strongly agree with them. Yes going 1v3 head-on you are likely to die but when you're playing solo, you aren't playing the same game. You do have several game-winning advantages such as making far less noise, being easier to hide, easier to lead and manipulate mobs and also you can take advantage of the confidence that the 3 player teams will have to find the perfect moment to strike. + the obvious things like friendly fire making a 3v1 not quite triple the advantage compared to the one. Certain classes such as rogue, ranger and wizard are better for soloing though clearly, but I have seen a barbarian go through the whole dungeon with no care and wipe out any team that faced them. Also all the loot is yours no need to share. Solo queue would just be hiding simulator and will probably mess with the value of trading items.

[median lance]

you forgot about mages, top1 solo class with Invisibility skill that allows to move

[undone jay]

I wish crossbows and spears were always available in the shops

It's fun to play with those two weapons and be a "survivalist" ranger

[wicked tree]

Wizard is the number 1 solo class that ive seen

[granite plinth]

i have a solution to the stash problem that everyone ik has, dont give us 20 pages of storage off rip but instead make our stash upgradeable (pay 500 for the next page of storage, 1000 for the next, and 2000 for the next) that way we arent keeping all of the good loot we get but instead making us use good loot to go secure more BAG and then use that bag to be able to store more BAG!

[undone jay]

BAG-

[median lance]

Tarkov always have containers, chests would work fine here too xD

[narrow oriole]

While the sentiment of a party being equally skilled to a seasoned solo player is a fair idea, logically a fully(discord) voiced party ends up with problems in strategy. They can't just chase every solo player who ambushes someone because that'd leave them open to other teams/solos. That's where the solo player has to turn the game's AI into their teammate(s). Sometimes it's with invis potions, other times it's a well timed ambush to help the skeleton mage take on a team of 3 people. Point being: I'm saying solo play is totally viable and the people complaining about it just don't realize how going solo changes your priorities.

[unreal flame]

People aren't a fan of my suggestion, which I'm curious as to why, seeing as 2H are unwieldy and that maul having an unforgiving moveset and lack of defense why would people be so averse to having it be able to cast, it could have drawbacks too such as inaccuracies as the crystal sword, but then again I could give a proper argument rather than blindly suggest

[granite plinth]

and to add on to that, if people get tired of being "bullied" as a solo because there are limitations to one's capability and can only be increased by the quality of player and gear. they (such as my self) should have found a group of solid players to play with and start to gain experience in team play and developing a strategic mind set 💯

[undone jay]

Honestly would be cool to see the Paladin Class be able to cast with a warhammer

[unreal flame]

I'd suggest the class but isn't cleric and paladin one Imin the same in a DND perspective, it's a subsection of the class were you can progress to become said archetype

[undone jay]

Not at all whatsoever

Clerics are their own class

Paladins are their own class

[wicked tree]

paladins are holy martials with limited spell slots that they can convert into smites while cleric are Holy casters that have a large and flexible spell list

[unreal flame]

Well that's good to know I suppose it'd be better to suggest I just said the casting being easier to implement I'd imagine than an entire class also cute ff character would draw despite not being too much of a fan of the more regal looking of armor being too much for me

[undone jay]

What @wicked tree said, Clerics are full casters that have lots of spells with limited martial options, their power comes from them serving a god

Paladins are full martial characters with limited spells, their power comes from being devoted to a cause rather than a god

And yeah, my FF main always wears big, heavy armor

[wicked tree]

there we go added my first suggestion for fighters to have a light crossbow in there second weapon set by default to allow them a better toolkit for dealing with the dungeon as an allrounder and a limited counter to ranged classes

[wicked tree]

seems people dont like that idea lol

[carmine radish]

Yall dont like my cantrip idea either

Which I genuinely don't understand, rangers have infinite ammo, a decently high damage rate and 2 different skills that let you fire really fast, but a wizard having cantrips like they do in D&D is a bad idea? I'd agree if rangers didnt have infinite ammo but bruh

[granite plinth]

I mistyped my suggestion oops

[wicked tree]

Ranged weapons shouldnt have infinite ammo which i think is going to change

[carmine radish]

but if it doesnt, why shouldnt the wizard have at least 1 cantrip that does low damage and has to be precise to hit and also has infinite uses or enough uses to reasonably last you the whole time if you're using it a decent amount in conjunction with other spells?

[undone jay]

Because Dungeons and Dragons, and Dark and Darker, work in fundamentally different ways

(is the short answer)

[urban river]

Thats what meditation is for,

[carmine radish]

Meditation has refilled 2 slots at most for a 1 memory point costs spell whenever i use it

not worth, especially with it taking a decent bit to meditate

My problem with meditate and wizards ultimately comes down to the speed of the game

I have a very limited amount of time, with the circle and portals spawning randomly and having to spend time physically searching for them, meditation seems like a waste of time when it takes several seconds to do so with only refilling 1-3 slots on all my basic spells and 1-2 slots on bigger spells, having to do this every other fight or so forces me to decide to EITHER loot OR meditate for more slots

If rangers are nerfed and the circle is done away with i'd agree that meditation is just fine, but at the speed at which the matches play out and with rangers having unlimited ammo at will, all the time, it does not make sense to me

[tender palm]

But all of the other abilities are better in almost every situation.

[grizzled socket]

I wish they slightly increased the range of chain lightning. It is so hard to get a cast off in time before your teammates get too close and it makes fireball so much stronger of a pick despite both being expensive spells.

[rigid vortex]

Word. I get that. If you're solo, you're going to prioritize stealth over damage when a rouge. I thought that was the context. Damage over smokes when in a group though.

[carmine radish]

I'd be good with it even if it were a single meter, but I wouldnt say further than like 2-3 meters, because electricity doesnt travel thru air very far

[tender palm]

Does the smoke hide you when you're hiding inside of it? From what I read it only slows, and hide is the stealth, personally, when solo I use hide and rupture / the other dmg one I forget the name, and when group either the same or both damages, there is no game where I ever use smoke bomb, but that's just me.

[grizzled socket]

It just seems like fireball is always a better choice than chain lightning no matter what at this stage of the game which is a shame because I think chain lightning is a really cool spell. Just wish there was a reason the bring it sometimes over fireball.

[topaz blade]

i suggest releasing the game now i love it

[carmine radish]

I think rather than extending the range of chain lightning to hit things across rooms, they should just add a lightning bolt spell that travels much further but only hits 1 target

But they should increase the chain lightning range a bit because yeah fireball is just better in a lot of instances

[rigid vortex]

I usually don't use smoke bombs in any other game either. I just find it useful in this one. It's pretty dense, It doesn't stealth you though. Popping it when getting shot by a ranger or mage is handy. I do stealth inside the smoke sometimes and kill whoever ventures in.

[tender palm]

Hmmm ok, it seems like it could be useful, but in a really specific situation, whereas the other abilities are potentially more useful in a lot more situations and just in general.

[red wyvern]

Alpha should be online till after the hollidays, alot of ppl woudl be happy with that

[carmine radish]

I think so too, it's been gaining traction, I think it would be smart to leave it up at least until jan 1st

Though it could be straining on budget, which is why they might not do it (but idk their situation)

[iron galleon]

Honestly i dont know if its a bug or not, but instant death after 3 ticks from the swarm in high roller is beyond stupid. Looking at the clip too, i died before the swarm even hit me, which is pretty weird...
I was literally player models away from the swarm.

[carmine radish]

this tab is about discussing suggestions FROM the suggestion tab which already has that

[carmine fjord]

I have made a big suggestion for this game here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2078890/discussions/0/6580353067881104909/

[carmine radish]

I like @sonic wolf suggestion, I also think they should make portals spawn at even higher densities towards the middle, that way the circle doesnt NEED to exist, but it's function is still present

[fierce hemlock]

@undone token the discord is apparently not very keen on making shields anything like their realistic equivalents.

[undone token]

I must admit that my opinion has somewhat modified. I do not think that this suggestion would really fit the tone of the game.

[fierce hemlock]

Realistic shields would be great. At the moment shields are worse than useless, they are a burden. Movement speed is the true winner.

[carmine radish]

Also I suggested this a little bit ago but im interested as to why people seem to not like the idea of a bloodhunter class being added to the game

[umbral pasture]

People have to stop suggesting 5 different things in 1 post. How are you supposed to vote on that lol

[carmine radish]

ima make this a suggestion

[opaque shore]

i wonder why people dislike a pve only server / area

[undone jay]

That, I don't know.

I'd love a PvE only mode, genuinely

I think people dislike the suggestion not because they'd HATE TO SEE IT but because they themselves would not want to play it

Which ye know, isn't the best kinda mindset.

Let people have their options, if you don't want them, da's fine

[carmine radish]

I think it would be cool, but I think it shouldnt be added until theres more enemy variety

[opaque shore]

if the PvE only character didnt tie whatsoever to the PvPvE server, then i can see it being fair. it would be so good for casual play and players could even play this game like a multiplayer roguelike

[carmine radish]

Some of my friends are turned off by the game being an extraction looter, but with a PvE "roguelike" mode, I think it would attract even more players

[edgy ravine]

Maybe have a separate mode for PVE for people who aren’t so adept at suddenly taking on other groups or going 1v3’s? Gives them time to find this steep learning curve and even possibly, if the player count is in the server, trade some goodies with the others

[wicked tree]

Hell a simple training mode would be nice

[carmine radish]

fax

@thorny minnow so why dont you like that idea

[thorny minnow]

If you need a PVE roguelike, you can go for a PVE roguelike game.
I think you need an offline practice mode like Tarkov, but you shouldn't be able to farm items there.

[carmine radish]

No one is saying you should be able to progress in the main mode thru the pve mode tho so idk what the problem is

Also extraction looters are already very similar to roguelikes so idk what you mean there either

Edit: Also the argument "Dont like it? Play something else" isnt a reason why a suggestion is bad, so idk why you included that in the first place

[little python]

https://discordapp.com/channels/988365908009447485/1048759403819577486/1055122157832777729 just play mordhau at that point

[opaque shore]

If items in PvE are stored somewhere else entirely from PvPvE, then you can't really complain, no trading between PvE and PvPvE and they'll not intertwine at ALL. Therefore It's 100% Fair

[carmine radish]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

I half agree, nerf rangers, the fact that they get infinite ammo is stupid asf. I dont have any complaints against rogues tho, but a lantern of revealing that reveals invisible enemies would be neat as a ultra rare item

EDIT:

v HONESTLY TRU

[wicked tree]

honestly the hand held lantern should do that anyway

[full cliff]

How are rangers going to pve at all if you nerf them via ammo though? Default bow needs to land 6 headshots to kill a skeleton

[wicked tree]

would be a interesting counter to rogues stealth and wizard invis but you have to hold it in your hand maybe have to find or buy fuel for it

[carmine radish]

give them a melee

[thorny minnow]

It will disperse users.
There is no problem if the game has a large number of users even if it is operated for a long time.
But at present, no one knows the future of this game.
And what many users currently expect from this game
The current Dark and Darker.
It is important to focus on completing the current game rather than devoting manpower elsewhere.

[carmine radish]

yeah, or maybe the default light doesnt reveal, but you can charge it and release to increase the luminosity, which reveals, but at the cost of like 1/3rd your oil or something

[full cliff]

I don't even think limiting their ammo would even actually nerf them it would just make them avoid pve. The real issue is mostly that the other classes have awful starting gear compared to ranger

[opaque shore]

I think it's a lil broken that the ranger starts with campfire, since they can stack in stash

it's basically a full party wide heal If you stack 3-4

[carmine radish]

If this were the case then wizards would avoid PvE since they have limited spell slots, but they dont avoid PvE

EDit:

They can, with a 40 second cooldown on an ability that takes several seconds to charge and only regains 4-6 slots max across the board, they are very limited in what they can do if they start expending slots

[full cliff]

Wizards can recharge their spells though.

[carmine radish]

Also clerics suffer the same issue, except they cant regain spell slots without a campfire, yet they dont avoid PvE

ALSO if you give ranger a melee, why would they avoid PvE? they just wouldnt use their bow, OR they would use it on bigger targets to soften them up similar to wizard or Cleric

[undone jay]

Goodness me, I really want elite spiders gone

[fierce hemlock]

Y'all are wrong. Don't nerf rangers. Just buff melee weapons.

[carmine radish]

Melee weapons being bad is a separate issue

[fierce hemlock]

1 fix can resolve many issues.

[long raft]

I dont mind them...but fucking remove the body blocking. So many times some little spider fuck has ended my run cause its in a doorway

[carmine radish]

Unlimited ammo and free STACKABLE campfires is not an issue that can be solved by buffing other weapons

[undone jay]

Precisely this

I just got spawned into that big room with the statue in the middle, two ramps on either side where mummies spawn in the corners and spiders come running out of a doorway where there's an undead mage

Needless to say, I ran

Get stuck between two elite spiders at a doorway and just die because I actually c a n n o t m o v e

[fierce hemlock]

Unlimited ammo isn't an issue if you buff other weapons.

[carmine radish]

Buffing a sword's damage by 5-15 points does not correlate to rangers having unlimited ammo with an relatively infinite distance weapon

EDIT:
Buffing a sword's attack speed by 5-15% does not correlate to rangers having unlimited ammo with an relatively infinite distance weapon

This also goes against the tone of the game and the central game design

[fierce hemlock]

No. Buff attack speed. not damage.
except daggers. they don't need it
and if shields had durability and realistic function. Rangers would be balanced.

[rain comet]

Buff arrows remove infinite

[thorny minnow]

In the last alpha, I really liked the Ranger, which had no limit on the number of bullets.
So, in this alpha, there is a limit on the number of ammunition.
Do you want to go back to the previous alpha again?
I'm against going back to the previous alpha.

[long raft]

ITT people getting popped by lvl 20 rangers in full gear, vs their naked char suicide run

[carmine radish]

Unlimited ammunition is bad when your weapon has infinite distance and when your class has 2-3 separate abilities to rapidfire your weapon

buffing melee weapons would not change this fact, making a melee weapon hit harder or faster does not change the fact that a ranger has unlimited ammo at infinite distance with multiple ways of popping shots at incredible speed and getting massive damage

Edit:

MOST PLAYERS ARE BAD LMAO WDYM

[craggy dragon]

dodging arrows is easy against most players

[long raft]

Man I love when I get to use 3 abilities unlike every other class.

[carmine radish]

When did i say they can have them at the same time?

man I love when people argue against things I didnt ever say

[craggy gate]

I think a PVE mode where you don't get anything above green items is a fine idea. Also no availability of ruby ore, for example. Make PvP have the actual loot / progression.

EDIT: To expand upon this, this would offer a way for players to gain a little bit of gear before entering the more challenging PVP lobby, and give newer players the chance to gain a little progress before being thrown into the gauntlet. You'd do a PvE run to get a little bit of sub-par gear, and then go straight to the PVP lobby with the gear you got. I don't think this would split the playerbase very much, as repeated PvE runs wouldn't give anything.

[thorny minnow]

Where is the archer who doesn't take the risk of being evaded by an opponent.
Do you want the arrow to have the same speed as the bullet?
You just have to go play a shooting game.

[fierce hemlock]

Rangers having infinite ammunition isn't an issue. Never has been. They only get 6 shots before a frustratingly long (like a couple seconds at most) reload which all classes can easily and quickly abuse to make the fight close quarters and the bow useless. Dodging those 6 arrows before you can close is INCREDIBLY easy.

Where rangers are difficult is in team play or attacking from out of sight. Then either they have body blockers, in which case in an even scenario either you do to, or you have a ranger of your own, or they headshot you from behind and the ammunition total doesn't matter anyway.

[undone jay]

Isn't it funny though how their quickshot ability that has massive damage potential ALSO restocks their ammo and foregoes the reload animation? :^)

[carmine radish]

Fr

[long raft]

Ranger have 5-7 arrows dependent on bow type. Reload animation is -always- a full reload, even if only 1 is shot. Abilities reload arrows true, but 5shot takes 5 immediately, trip takes 3. None of you know what the fuck youre on about lmao

[fierce hemlock]

Which again, the ammunition isn't the problem. Rangers are just a symptom.
The problem is shields not being realistic and useful.

[craggy gate]

shield is extremely useful, if you crouch with it it's almost impossible for me to land my shots as ranger, but nobody's smart enough to crouch while being shot at for some reason

[thorny minnow]

I agree that you should only reload for the number of arrows used.

[long raft]

No, you shouldn't. Thats part of the balance.

[undone jay]

Man, honestly? Genuinely, scroll back to yesterday night's conversation. This has all been talked about already.

Rangers are overloaded, they have too much shit.

People talk a lot about the infinite arrows, ranged advantage, campfire, rations

But you don't see people talking about the enhanced hearing

Or the footstep tracker

Or the 3 traits to improve their damage

Or the 2 traits to improve their action/movement speed

(Edit: Don't forget traps, though fairly minor and able to be played around, still very strong in the right hands)

Do explain why you'd put a laughing smile emoji on a message that is objectively true, "theevol29"

[fierce hemlock]

that has never been the experience for my shots. a crouching shield is actually easier to shoot. but also a crouching shield is now a sitting duck for melee.

[craggy gate]

yeah ranger certainly doesn't need a buff. The only thing I think needs to be 'buffed' or at least re-balanced is crossbows, because crossbows are completely fucking useless atm.

[carmine radish]

As someone who plays ranger a lot, having infinite ammo does make the difference, being able to quickly and reliably pelt enemies with the only down time being a reload, im easily always 10-20 meters away from the person im pelting, there is no scenario in the whole world where they could break that distance in 2 seconds and stop me from pelting them, and it has yet to happen

[long raft]

Most rooms aren't even 10 meters long...you are a clown.

[fierce hemlock]

there is SOOO much cover in this game closing that distance in 2 seconds is easier than breathing. Just hold W.

[carmine radish]

I guess door ways into other rooms arent real, I also didnt know I was playing in a game with ONLY hallways 2 feet wide with doors being every 10ft or so

I also didnt know the giant loot rooms easily spanning 20 meters across arent real

@fierce hemlock yet it NEVER HAPPENS, if im in a corner or in another room pelting someone from a doorway, the person rushing me still has to close several meters as i finish the reload animation and begin pelting them again

[undone jay]

There is actually no point to this conversation anymore, you're disagreeing on principle now because you got off on the wrong foot with one person, and so you automatically think "oh this person's a clown"

Edit: See, the reactions : ')

[long raft]

There's no point in the conversation because he's talking out of his ass lmao. Wizard who's getting clapped so pretends he's a ranger main and then spouts nonsense with no real knowledge of the class mechanics.

[undone jay]

Do explain why you think so, genuinely go in depth about why you think MarssJ is talking out of his ass?

Put some effort into disagreeing with him, yeh?

[craggy gate]

one well placed wizard fireball ends any ranger, also rogue or wizard invisibility ends a ranger, also it's extremely easy to shield-block arrows and fighter sprint closes the distance in 2 seconds

[carmine radish]

"You have a role in the server because of your main, BET YOU NEVER PLAY ANY OTHER CLASS HUH?"

What are you talking about

not to mention my ranger and fighter are both higher level than my wizard 🤭

[thorny minnow]

Did you know that this applies to other professions as well?

[long raft]

I already have, I explained he was wrong about fundamental mechanics, his 10-20 meter range is utter tripe. He claims the only down time is reload which is just false LMAO oh and that arrows have 'infinite' distance.

[undone jay]

10-20 meters is most definitely not nonsense, if you like we can go into a VC and we can test this together?

It's funny how making a genuine offer to show how you're wrong makes you laugh

Arrows do not have "infinite" distance by a long shot, but the range is pretty long, especially taking dropoff into account.

[long raft]

he said he's consistently 10-20 meters from enemies when most rooms are boxes with pillars and obstacles. Check @development for map size, there's VERY few rooms of that size. He's talking shite, as are you.

@carmine radish Maybe explain yourself better and you won't come off as an ignorant whiner with 0 knowledge.

[carmine radish]

Bro thinks 10-20 meters WIDE is the only dimension im talking about

Bro thinks that infinite distance in the context of a dungeon crawler game must mean it will literally go for ad infinitum and not that it can cover any distance within the confines of the game (It cannot mean that)

EDIT: YES, most teamfights i engage in are in the large rooms, not to mention doorways exist and you can be in a different room while shooting, crazy i know

Edit 2: i dont need to explain myself "better" when the context is already laid out because we are talking about the same fucking game

[undone jay]

Let's hop into VC, come on, let's go c:

Fact of the matter is:

Eveyone here thinks they're correct and most people do not give a shit about other people's opinions.

You come in here, spouting your opinion, and shitting on other people's viewpoints, because you disagree on principle, believing yourself to be correct

[long raft]

Why would I hop in VC with you ? The matter is being discussed right now, you want to test it go play a ranger. The MAJORITY of all rooms is smaller than 10 meters wide or length, or has pillars, tombstones and other obstacles. You're just fundamentally wrong lmao

[craggy gate]

marrs has completely ignored all of the ways i've listed that are extremely easy to counter ranger, and there's only a handful of situations that meet his criteria, he's cherry-picking and literally using niche instances as examples as if that's 95% of the gameplay as ranger, this debate is pointless.

edit: I have a level 20 ranger and I regularly win/extract solos but you have to play extremely carefully, I still get clapped regularly when I make dumb mistakes because that's how ranger works

as soon as a player gets within range of you it's 100% over, if you fight in any closed space you're fucked, if a wizard has time to charge a fireball you're fucked, etc etc

[carmine radish]

Because my argument isnt with you, I never disagreed so i wont voice a disagreement

Also if it's niche then why is it 90% of my teamfights when i or a teammate are playing as a ranger or when im playing against a ranger, this has been my experience throughout the whole of this playtest

I also extract solos at least semi-frequently with a ranger (actually is the class i get the most solo extracts on) and they are so unbelievably easy to play compared to other classes, maybe ranger is just the class i should main- idk, but I continually find ways to put myself at max distance from anyone i fight so it's never that hard unless i specifically stop fighting and take time to open doors/run away

Also with the wizard point, fireballs are relatively slow projectiles so they're pretty easy to dodge, the only time i died to a fireball was when i was opening a door and it blasted me thru the door i was opening, any other time i just hop out of the way and reposition, and then i pelt them again

[late raptor]

Nerf rangers because I hate bow cucks

[carmine radish]

This is honestly the only valid conclusion to this discussion

[thorny minnow]

Rangers with good aiming skills will hit their opponents well, whether they are far or close.
If you frequently allow opponents from far away to approach you
You should doubt your aiming skills or the condition of your equipment.
In addition, if a ranger with good skills happens to have an opponent come close to them somehow during battle,
It uses ingenious fighting methods such as luring opponents and setting traps that close doors.

[carmine radish]

yeah, like I feel like if they're assuming that people getting in close is a MASSIVE problem when you have traps and can just pelt them from a different room are self reporting that they dont know how to play the game tbh

[late raptor]

Rangers don't have skill they have a bow, I like killing them because it's like a loot pinata since they start with a campfire kit

[carmine radish]

bow cucks try not to hoard meds challenge

[cold isle]

Guys fuck all this wizard ranger rogue bullshit, how about barbarian interaction speed being 2-3x slower than every other class

[late raptor]

You're not supposed to interact as barbarian, they are stupid and don't understand doors and chests, just hit them with an axe until they break

[carmine radish]

what pisses me off about that is my friend and i were both barbarians wailing on a door for like 2 minute straight, nothing, then later that same game i watched another barbarian break a door in 1 hit i was so mad

[cold isle]

I love taking smash and breaking everything, but when it comes to clutch escape portal moments it’s pretty much impossible

[craggy gate]

traps take fucking 10 seconds to place and you can't do it in the middle of a fight, are you fucking high???

this dude's just trolling at this point ignore him tbh

edit: even with trap expert you'd still have to STAND STILL in the middle of a fight for 3 seconds, which is a guaranteed death, this isn't debatable

[undone jay]

Trap Expert perk, takes 3 seconds.

Edit: So? You run away, juke around, place traps by closed doors, it's not that hard to understand, like come on

[thorny minnow]

So the developers gave the barbarian the ability to break doors and chests.

[late raptor]

My lunch break is over my final suggestion is that clerics should do 10x damage to rangers because God hates bow cucks.

[spice pawn]

Barb w/ Smash + Felling axe (w/ optional Savage Roar fear debuff) is the fastest PvE monster cheese in the game right now -- if you don't whiff on your axe attacks, he actually accesses destructible chests / objects and "opens" doorways the fastest out of all classes, including rogues

[mossy widget]

Im sure this has been said a million times but I wish gold stacked higher

[carmine radish]

Who is saying mid fight? You know rangers have a perk to hear people further away right? It's called fight preparation, try it sometime, i've also had rangers do this to me mid fight for the first time a couple days ago when i was playing a fighter, worst mistake of my life turning a corner with confidence

Edit:

I never said traps was a ranger being OP but there yall go again attacking things i didnt ever say

Also idk man i feel like if theres a pitch black spot where the trap is they're gonna have a hard time seeing it when they're actively running with a weapon in their hand and not a torch

[craggy gate]

if people don't notice traps that's their fault as players it's not ranger being
OP lmfao

[undone jay]

It's not RANGER IS OP 'CUZ TRAPS

It's that traps are one part of Ranger's kit, which contributes to them having a lot of tools they can use, which other classes, who do not have traps, can not

Is that not true, to you?

Edit: And do you think just putting the clown emoji on every single message Mars and I send somehow makes you seem like the more mature, grown up, reasonable person?

We can circumvent the slowmode, we can edit our messages, we can have conversations and talk about what you and I disagree with, you know?

[carmine radish]

I've seen people in political debate servers with more argumentative tact and etiquette than these people

[craggy gate]

you're now encouraging rule-breaking, congratulations

[carmine radish]

You have literally been doing this

[near rose]

Both rangers and wizards desperately need a nerf but i don't see it happening soon. The devs don't seem all that great at balancing classes so far. Whats even worse is that there are talks of buffing the ranger giving him spells which is just crazy assuming hes not nerfed in other ways before that.

[fierce hemlock]

Ranger is good. Other classes and gear needs a buff.

[carmine radish]

I think giving ranger spells make sense for a D&D context, but either martial classes should get buffs to compensate, or rangers should have certain tools removed, or both

I personally agree with doing both

[near rose]

I mean if rangers do get spells trap should probably be limited by rangers spells rather than by items

[copper dagger]

rangers are actually really underpowerer, LONGBOWS with triple arrow is what makes rangers so fucked. ranger is getting so many nerfs, but none fixing the true problem at hand, nowadays they cant live any encounter at all, unless you have a bow with atleast 30/40 damage

i AM playing ranger in most games, this game just wack

[craggy gate]

this, it just sounds like y'all don't know how to fight against ranger lol

[carmine radish]

Or yall dont know how to play ranger, ranger is so easy to stay alive with idk what yall are on about

[near rose]

If you genuinely think ranger is in a balanced place as a ranger main you are playing ranger very very wrong.

[thorny minnow]

Those who say the Ranger is weak
It is clear that he lacks the ability to aim.

[carmine radish]

^ For real, yall are self reporting that you dont know how to click heads with ur mouse it's actually insane

Edit:
One mistake means death, as for all classes
Your level doesnt matter, your mechanical skill is clearly lacking
The fact that you keep bringing up that you're level 20 tells me that your numerical progression is how you define your skill

[craggy gate]

again, level 20 ranger here, I regularly win solos, but one mistake means death, so you regularly die too. you need to play extremely carefully & safe as a ranger. it is NOT hard to counter ranger, at all.

Edit: to clarify, a lot of the time I win fights is because the enemy clearly does not know how to fight a ranger and could very easily win. as soon as they rush me properly it's basically over.

[opaque arrow]

Ranger is fine in team play, but extremely hard to play solo. I think the nerf to hunting traps was not needed tbh.

[normal lava]

But that's the same with all classes solo, being extremely careful and can potentially die regularly.

[granite plinth]

Has anyone tried dual wield Barb? The sluggish speed plus slow swing is making 2H feel very difficult to play

[craggy gate]

it's the same exact situation in team play, if I'm in a bad position for one second or if they have a rogue that just runs past my teammate to rush me, it's over. ranger is extremely easy to deal with.

[thorny minnow]

There are many people around me who are good at killing opponents with rangers.
They all have good aiming skills.
People who play characters that require aiming skills need to improve their aiming skills.

[wooden wigeon]

@tulip basin Why would you downvote fixing an exploit?

[carmine radish]

It's pretty easy to kill any rogues since they have low armor with both quickshot and that one multidirectional perk i forgot what it's called

[normal lava]

Welcome to low hp/low armor classes. Only ones who get past this are fighter, barbarian, cleric.

[craggy gate]

yes that's the point, ranger has high damage but they're very easily counter-able and can die in just a couple hits, so they're pretty well balanced lol

[void magnet]

these magic stats on literally every single item imaginable on universe is getting out of hand

[carmine radish]

THATS WHAT IM SAYING
OH MY GOD

edit: this wasnt directed at you @craggy gate

[tulip basin]

Why do you post a bug report on a Suggestion channel

[normal lava]

Still impossible to push a doorway or corridor against one, until they add the mustard gas to wizard spell-list.

[craggy gate]

no you've been arguing that ranger needs to be nerfed and is too strong this entire time, and i'm saying they aren't lol

[undone jay]

Even as a Full Plate Fighter you can at times get instagimped by a rogue or ranger, it's kinda nuts

[carmine radish]

I had full plate armor with full health and got 2 shot by a ranger it was crazy

[wooden wigeon]

So people can know about it and upvote it to bring it to attention to the devs even more, not downvote it

[near rose]

Also if you're a shield wearing class even if you block the arrow with your shield you often are still taking damage despite it showing the arrow on your shield

[craggy gate]

case and point about ranger, one rogue just stealthed up to me and insta-gibbed me, nothing I could do about it, had no idea he was coming

[undone jay]

But that's the experience of like, anyone that is not prepared for a rogue though

[thorny minnow]

The same goes for other characters.
To be unaware that a rogue is coming, to be ambushed, and to die without a chance to counterattack.

[near rose]

Rogue is one of your few counters just because rogues answer you doesn't mean ranger isn't on a unhealthily strong state

[carmine radish]

Rogues CAN counter ranger, but ranger counters everything else when played correctly, and if you are playing correctly, especially as a solo player, then rogues shouldnt be countering you at all

[undone jay]

I will say I disagree with this specifically

Rogues can surprise anyone, no matter how prepared you are, if one sees you coming and decides to camp you, and you happen to walk into that ambush, there's nothing you can do about it

[craggy gate]

ranger has MANY counters just like every class

@carmine radish yeah because when a rogue stealths up to you 20 seconds into the game I can definitely see that coming by 'playing correctly'

absolute clown, christ

[near rose]

Name 5 counters if they have many

[craggy gate]

cleric shield rush, fighter sprint + regen, wizard fireballs (forces you to move, fucks up your time to aim), rogue stealth ambush, any actually good plate/shield user

[carmine radish]

If fireballs fuck up your aim, it's time to hit the aimlabs my brother

edit:

@void magnet YES, everytime I get plate armor or a sword with extra magic stats on it i cry

[void magnet]

anyone else thinks there is way too many magic stats on items

[craggy gate]

alright champ let's go VC and you can sharescreen yourself standing still & aiming while a wizard throws a fireball at you that leaves a 2 meter burning AOE, should be fun to watch

[near rose]

Shields usually aren't even blocking arrows correctly most of the time and even if they are due to ungodly luck you'll have better move speed than the cleric l. Plate and shield users same thing you have better move speed than them theres no reason they should catch up to you without a wizards haste. You can counter rogue ambush with your traps by playing more passively before an engagement

[carmine radish]

Weren't yall like mortally opposed to VC earlier?
Why should I go in now? Just cuz ur bad and want an ego boost? Go hit aimlabs, you can get better lil bro

Edit:
Honestly tho, I may be saying it like a dick, but aim trainers really do help, I play Valorant and Overwatch a lot and aim trainers help there, and they help here too

[craggy gate]

once again I have no problem with aim or landing headshots, that makes 0 difference vs the fireball i'm talking about, you're just pulling out red herrings for like the millionth time here, you're an absolute troll

[crude quarry]

"I have to move to dodge fireball AoE" = "Counter to ranger". Can't compute, explain.

[near rose]

Cancel your shot with f press x to gain movespeed dodge the fireball you also have better movespeed than most as a ranger

[carmine radish]

didnt even think of this tbh I just brute force it

[craggy gate]

having to move to get out of the way of a fireball means you have to stop aiming, which means the enemy has more than enough time to gain distance on you and murder you

@near rose i am well aware, which means putting away your weapon while the enemy gets a better position on you, what are you people not understanding here lmfao

[crude quarry]

I agree with what you say, but to call someone shooting you back a "counter" is a bit much in my personal humble opinion.

[rocky shell]

Why do people so love this BR Circle mechanic? I created suggestion and immediatly got more downvotes than last 3 suggestions. Also found similar suggestion with a lot of downvotes too. Why does people so in love with rushing and abandoning loot and fights? 😦

[sudden minnow]

How come people like the battle-royale circle so much? Every time I see someone suggest getting rid of it or starting it later in the match it gets downvoted real bad.

It kind of stifles the crawling aspect of the game since you’re already up against players, mobs, and the dungeon itself. More often that not you end up skipping rooms full of loot and fights to get to the next door and escape the darkness. And often enough, getting to the center yields no portals out and you die in it any way.

I see people claim that some players would just hide on the outskirts of the dungeon and wait for everyone else to escape and pick up the scraps, to which I think “why do you care?” It doesn’t seem it affect any one else’s experience much and if you want to fight players so bad, can’t you just go look for them if you know right where they’re hiding?

[knotty olive]

@weary egret why down vote, wanna explain?

[random tapir]

Give weapons and armor lineage from its dead player transferring to the next. Like the weapons and armor have history you could see how many people have used it.

[craggy gate]

the BR zone doesn't make you abandon fights, it adds a sense of urgency and pushes you into fights, and ensures that rounds don't last for 30+ mins

[crude quarry]

This was mentioned during QnA with devs. Apparently they like the pressure that circle creates. Theyr tried it without it and it didn't feel right.

Portal distribution could use a lot of work for sure though

[weary egret]

@knotty olive I feel like it is a unrealistic ask so early in development.

[rocky shell]

it pushes people to hop in portal instead of big fight in the end. Why fight if you can just close the door, activate portal and jump? Enemies won't be able to get you fast enough

[craggy gate]

because fighting means that you get the loot other people have been gathering all game???? i regularly choose to fight instead of hopping in portals and see people do the same all the time lol. This is a core mechanic of the game, changing it would change the game as a whole.

[knotty olive]

i don't think. It makes the game so trio oriented, while i would say atleast 10% of all people play only solo. So they will feel it unfair to die to a trio, while you try to kill one melee guy, while a ranger shoots at you and wizard is healing the melee guy. Super unfair if you ask me

[carmine radish]

I hate the circle but I cant think of an alternative that would keep people from tarkov ratting the whole game

[random tapir]

Pikz — Today at 10:14 AM
Give weapons and armor lineage from its dead player transferring to the next. Like the weapons and armor have history you could see how many people have used it.

[rocky shell]

Fight in the end means half of your party will be squashed by zone because of time limit and bad distribution of portals

[craggy gate]

yes....that's the risk you run, that's the point. do you stay to fight for loot and risk it all, or get out with what you have? that's the game mechanic. You're describing the point of the game.

@knotty olive i regularly win solos, either don't engage with teams or get better

[weary egret]

yeah but the game is meant to be played in 3's. Now your suggesting they create lobbies for 1vs1, 2vs2. So you expect them to balance that while also focusing on finishing their actual game. That's unrealistic. I would rather the devs focus on their vision first.

[carmine radish]

also if you want a 1v1/2v2/3v3 mode specifically for fights just play mordhau or chivalry 2

[knotty olive]

@craggy gate You win solos as a solo or as a duo or a trio? Or you win as a solo duos and trios? I'm not best at the game but still, game makes me want to leave, since it is so trio oriented.

@weary egret Then why not make playing trios only option? If you are a solo or a duo, add another player via matchmaking to your team. I suppose that could work

[craggy gate]

I win solo, as a solo.

[thorny minnow]

If a mod that can reduce the risk of solo play is created, it causes problems with the market economy in the game. If a mod that can reduce the risk is created, it causes problems with the market economy in the game.

[knotty olive]

well i didn't say that the 1v1 was an issue, the issue was 1v2 or 1v3, since you can't kill all three easily. One guy fighting you straight on, one is ranging and one is healing. Impossible to win.

[craggy gate]

I win 1v3's. Not every time, but sometimes. The solution? Don't fucking fight a team of 3 dudes. Leave. You're doing it to yourself if you can't handle it.

[weary egret]

matchmaking is a great suggestion. Don't get me wrong I would love solo que. but at the moment its a lot to ask. I would imagine they would need to create a new map or make the current maps smaller. They would also need to balance the loot for solo que as well.

[carmine radish]

avoid fights then, go rogue, naked and run away

[topaz blade]

if there is no zone the game loses the sense of urgency and danger. the only hard npcs are the mini bosses like wraith and that viking skeleton. so by having the zone the chances of encountering other players is greater then by not having it. also u can get a feel as to where other people are

[rocky shell]

And loot will be lost for everyone. It just don't effective from PoV of leveling and gaining results. You die - you get less exp. You die - you lost loot. You fight in the end, kill several players, but didn't get to the portal in time - you die. It's not even gambling, because you lose everything when you win fight or lose fight either way. If you fight with bunch of inexperienced players - you can squash them, loot and evacuate, but with normal players or good players that won't work at all.

So from "points of the game", which are "looting, leveling, escaping and fighting" (do you remember there is no tab in leaderboards with KILLED A LOT BUT DIED BECAUSE OF ZONE?) only 1 works in this case. So in result you don't wanna risk anything, because it's not good gambling, it's casino, with no winners except for casino. And casino in this case is dungeon, that will be erased in the end.

[craggy gate]

agreed that zone should stay but you clearly haven't been to level 3 yet lol

@rocky shell you're complaining that you're not good enough to get out with loot so you're blaming the core game mechanics, you're not making any decent point. It's your decision if you choose to stay & fight to loot and possibly die or get out with what you have. If you stay and fight and die, that was your mistake.

[knotty olive]

Sometimes you can't avoid fighting 1v2 and 1v3. Then you are just fucked

@carmine radish The fix isn't to play only one class, since there is many others to play. I think the game shouldn't gate keep you to play certain way sinc you play as a solo.

[topaz blade]

oh yeah i was talking about lvl 1 i totally forgot about the other levels. thats a hell hole XD

[carmine radish]

Then get better or dont play solo, those are the only two available solutions, they shouldnt have to rework the game or add specific modes because certain players cant perform, the whole point is to get better

[craggy gate]

this is literally what i've been saying to you about ranger though but anyway I agree with what you said here

[topaz blade]

it would be nice to have solo, duo and trio ques. a solo could still encounter a a trio i just want a way to join other people without having to spam invite

[craggy gate]

a matchmaking option to get put into teams with randoms would be plenty for this, which I agree should be implemented to some extent, but not separate solo/duo/trio queues or gamemodes, splitting the playerbase is no bueno

[carmine radish]

A class not being balanced isnt a skill issue, whereas being a bad soloQer is a skill issue but okay

[topaz blade]

yes i agree. no solo on solo or duo on duo gamemode, i want a way to join other randoms instead of spending 5 mins inviting people only for 1 to always keep leaving

[reef narwhal]

I want to add to my suggestion that a less clutter alternative like pressing a hotkey on an item, and then dragging on the stash would be a nice option as well to designate the fields.

[craggy gate]

people dying to ranger because they don't know how to fight ranger is a skill issue, not a balancing issue

edit: case and point some dipshit fighter just ran up to me without blocking a single time and got pelted to death, completely his own fault

[faint vine]

I have seen a couple of suggestions about getting rid of or even just slowing down the circle, and it typically has more down votes than up votes. Any body want to help me out by explaining why they think having the circle is the best iteration of this game?

[carmine radish]

No, ranger having free campfires and having like 9 or 12 traps with unlimited ammo and can do damage and nearly any range with the only negative being low armor is a balancing issue

Being a bad player and dying to a ranger because you're bad is different from being a good player and dying to a bad ranger because their kit is fucked

[craggy gate]

when campfire can be bought for what, 5 gold? a free campfire makes literally no difference whatsoever, everybody can go buy one for practically nothing. you start with THREE traps and they're the lowest tier, and also it's extremely easy to avoid traps if players aren't bad.

[spice pawn]

Excuse me, sir- you forgot the 3 biscuits. Also, spears in tight hallways for big lulz

[wise kelp]

Makes the game more thrilling to play

[sudden minnow]

For who

[faint vine]

Can you elaborate more on that?

[undone jay]

Certainly not necessarily for me

I don't know what else you'd do, but I don't NECESSARILY hate OR like the circle

[carmine radish]

oh I see the problem, you've never met anyone that hoards that shit and purposefully dies repeatedly to hoard stuff like that for free

[craggy gate]

you can't die and hoard your own shit what

[topaz blade]

i dont think ranger is as unbalanced as people make it out to be, hes just annoying AF to fight. if u rush him you are dead, either by a barrage of arrows or a barrage of arrows while trapped LOL the only way to fight a ranger is to avoid him or sneak up on him

[spice pawn]

Or bait him, really- he shines a lot less when he has to come to you

[oblique haven]

only thing that makes ranger busted is the traps, everything else has a counter

[carmine radish]

I see you dont know that you get default loot when you die

[undone jay]

1. Die
2. Put the stuff you get into your stash, the starting equipment the game just GIVES you
3. Do it again

[craggy gate]

ah you mean like that, still when you can just buy campfires it makes no difference at all lol, you start with the lowest tier campfire and you're just wasting time doing that

[undone jay]

Honestly? Call me a rat, but I like playing with more than 3 traps. I like surviving until the end and being able to trap a whole hallway in endgame and making people fight me on my terms and not theirs

Though I just buy the traps because they're 3 gold a piece xD

[granite cobalt]

Is this where I complain about rangers while I play a skeleton wizard with no shirt on?

[wise kelp]

If there was no circle, you would probably just powerfarm every single thing in the Map, making games lasting way to long. I wouldnt' want to play that game.
Circle may be frustating to deal with some Time to time, and i'm not saying it's perfecly designed rn, but it's also a way to put pressure on you and that's what makes it fun, you gotta push forward constantly and taking risks, that's what makes it thrilling

[oblique haven]

this is why traps need either removed or heavily nerfed. promotes playing like a loser too much

[carmine radish]

It's not just that they start with campfire and traps, it's that they do ON TOP of infinite ammo ON TOP of being able to damage at any range ON TOP of having 3 different abilities to fire faster, one of which gives you free ammo ON TOP of those arrows doing massive damage with a grey longbow, etc.

You're taking one part and saying "Oh see it's just this, this isnt unbalanced" without recognizing that these are all different parts of a whole

if it was JUST the traps or JUST the campfires, there'd be no issue, but it's EVERYTHING IN THEIR KIT working TOGETHER that makes them unbalanced, and no one is saying they're the bane of the whole game either, we're just saying they could do with some changes to make it fairer

[craggy gate]

the zone is a core mechanic of the game and would ruin every other aspect of the game carefully curated around it, the zone isn't getting removed, if you don't like the core game mechanic this probably isn't the game for you

[hot reef]

Rangers are not as broken as you think

[faint vine]

But isn't that what the exits are for? You still have to make it to an exit portal. Also people are going to go into a match with different game plans. So pvp players are going to hunt down players and pve players will try to avoid them while farming mobs. You would also still have a clock so you can't just stay in the dungeons forever.

[craggy gate]

campfire & traps isn't even a factor because you can buy them is what i'm saying, it's an entirely moot point to even include that as 'their kit' for your argument, and as i've already described, there's a dozen ways to easily counter ranger if you're just not dumb as a brick when fighting a ranger, it's a skill issue not balance issue

[oblique haven]

honestly tho, rangers just should not start with traps and they should cost more. that way the losers can still be losers but it cost more.

[carmine radish]

You CAN buy them, but you can also spend like 5 minutes, get 9 traps, 3 campfires and then spend the money you didnt spend on a longbow and some armor

[topaz blade]

i agree that ranger shouldnt have both a campfire and a healing ability that has like 3 uses, while poor barbarian gets no health potion

[undone jay]

Who's really the loser xD

The guy who comes up with a good way to use his traps, to catch people in them and bait them into them

Or the guy who doesn't throw a torch before/after entering a door?

🤡

[craggy gate]

also barbarian weapons do more damage than longbows by a wide margin, and they have faster attack speed

[faint vine]

I like the game and am fine with the circle I just think that it forces a specific kind of gameplay rather than encouraging different approaches to the game.

[oblique haven]

a better way to balance that would be to give other classes a self healing skill or some starter healing utility

[idle vigil]

Remove ranger healing replace it with a better skill

[topaz blade]

i think all the classes have that except barbarian

[crude quarry]

As of now, people already either focus on PvP or PvE. What alternative gameplan would be created if the circle was removed?

[sudden minnow]

“Circle good because I don’t want to look for other players when the game can just push us toward each other” seems to be the consensus

[carmine radish]

Yes, Im fine with ranger being strong, but I would also like other classes being just as strong with their sustainability, maybe in different ways than the ranger, but still

[granite plinth]

Literally only ranger players want ranger to be strong (its op atm)

[faint vine]

Pve players are pretty forced to do pve. It's pretty rare to get to an exit without being forced along a path where you run into other players

[craggy gate]

fighter has a 50% health self regen and cleric can self-heal, but you don't want every class to have everything. in my opinion cleric is the most busted class atm

@granite plinth no it's not get gud at fighting rangers

[crude quarry]

A ha! So what you're saying is "I want the circle gone to avoid PvP as much as possible" This is mainly a PvP game though.

P.S

Experinces may vary, but as a player with over 50 solo matches under my belt, I many times went without seeing a single other player. Can you imagine how scarce the encounters would become if there was 0 reason to gather smaller and smaller areas?

[oblique haven]

no i 100% want every class to have self healing, just not instant. ranger healing ability should take a good bit longer for sure. only cleric should have instant healing

[spice pawn]

Admittedly, going up against a cleric + 2 aggressive melee guys who both have stacked cleric shield + protection potion does make for a tough time

[faint vine]

I'm just saying it doesn't have to be a mainly pvp game. Also again I like pvp. I would just like the option to decide what I want to do game to game.

[topaz blade]

i think it would be cool to have a pve mode but then everyone would always have the best gear so i think thats why it wouldnt work

[craggy gate]

THIS IS A PVP GAME. THAT'S THE POINT. YOU'RE COMPLAINING A PVP GAME IS PVP.

[undone jay]

Ranger is most definitely overloaded, this has been discussed for like, hours upon hours upon hours xD

[crude quarry]

This is the Developer's Dream and Vision. They WANT it to be a mainly a PvP game. Let's respect that.

[oblique haven]

ranger is mostly balanced right now. wizard and rogue are the 2 that stand out for pvp. look at the top kill leaderboard for example.

[idle vigil]

Ranger isnt balanced when you even consider bosses the game isnt just pvp

[spice pawn]

There's also barely any PvE content. The "hack" to spice up what amounts to less than 25% of an indie demo (if PvE only) is to sprinkle PvP on top. Then it's more like [PvE] x [PvP] = lots of game

[craggy gate]

cleric has a refreshing AOE ability that does 100 damage to all undead around him, several heals, a resurrect, can wear plate, AND uses a shield. and ranger is more overloaded????

[crude quarry]

Wizard is a sucha PITA to get started with, especially as a solo 😂 How do you "OP" wizards do it? Honest question, how do you get a wizard from 0 to OP?

[undone jay]

Did I ever say that ANYTHING OTHER THAN RANGER WAS NOT OVERLOADED????

DO NOT PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH I AM SIMPLY SAYING RANGER IS OVERLOADED FOR GOD'S SAKE

[sudden minnow]

I don’t get how no circle means no pvp? Can’t you just go look for the players you think are trying to avoid you if you want to fight them so bad?

[topaz blade]

to be fair, once you get to lvl 2 is basically pve 90% of the time is just and ur team there

[oblique haven]

bosses are another argument entirely but pvp is what actually effects everyone. so that should be the focus. @crude quarry buy a ball and dagger from merchants and make sure you can use the spells, ignite, haste, and invis. you will not lose in pvp if you play it right

[spice pawn]

the magic of adding PvP to this formula is that the devs don't have to brute force script a bunch of scenes like Half-Life 1 to make it feel like there's a lot of content. Just the looming threat of other players will "script itself". Plenty to do

[crude quarry]

It means WAY WAY less PvP. Like, hilariously less. Not PvP "gone". Just less... To the point of Hide and Seek simulator.

[idle vigil]

Most of this game is PvE not pvp the gameplay is all about loot acquisition to gain advantages over players

[craggy gate]

if every class is overloaded then no class is overloaded lol

[quaint yarrow]

There are many ways to encourage people to funnel to the center without a circle hard-enforcing it. Better loot near center, more exits near center, XP buff for killing mobs near center, etc. It'd be a good experiment for a testing phase IF that's what they wanted. They can also simply tune the circle.

[spice pawn]

I like how the circle eliminates extended "camper-strike" plays in all areas outside of the likely final circle

[oblique haven]

sounds more like you expect too much too fast in a play test. i can get 8-10 kills some raids. pvp needs balanced before pve boss fights

[sudden minnow]

Don’t the exits only spawn in the center anyway? They have to go there eventually. Go get em if you want em so bad lol.

[topaz blade]

i feel that if they remove the circle there will be teams of rangers camping all the time and more ambushes in general

[carmine radish]

Honestly, this would be like complaining about an online game being online only like wtf

[crude quarry]

But you just said that PvE is only there as a means to get better gear for... PvP 😂

[thorny minnow]

Even if there is no circle system, you can increase the chance of getting good items only in certain places on the map.
That way, people will meet and battle each other on their way there.
Tarkov adopts this approach.

[ocean sorrel]

What does it mean when my suggestion turns green. Does it mean that its a lot of upvotes or that the devs plan on implementing it

[faint vine]

I feel like so far this is the only Strong point that has been made for the circle.

[spice pawn]

I hope future map sets are also notably distinct in terms of game mechanics. New World had a ton of "map", but the game might as well have been in a single white rectangular room that just spawned resource nodes and the occasional dungeon boss

[idle vigil]

Yea its called an end goal

[crude quarry]

More like it's called means to an end. Therefore PvE is not the focus. All the patches so far are ALL About PvP balance and general bug fixes. Priorities.

[carmine radish]

True, have the good loot and portals spawn close to the center while having a time limit, which would encourage players to go closer and be in closer proximity, but it would also just let people who are fine just getting the bare minimum get their bare minimum

But idk how that would work out, they could always try, but I think circle will always be the most cost-effective solution to the problem

[stone dome]

Man I just hope they add some depth and complexity to melee combat with blocking/parrying. Even using a shield feels super jank and basic currently. Melee fights almost always devolve into mindlessly hacking away at each other.

[crude quarry]

If portal distribution is greatly improved, circle doesn't have sudden death attached to it, I think everyone would be happier.

[oblique haven]

the circle fits this game really well. only thing i would change is to make sure there is 3 blue portals that spawn in the last zone.

[edgy kayak]

A shared stash would be nice. Sometimes I find good gear and I would love to pass it off to a different class

[spice pawn]

BRO. What if tavern waiting room lobby was not only filled with destructibles, but when destroyed, players could get raw materials. Then I can build a Minecraft base while waiting for game start

[carmine radish]

True, to be honest I would just prefer it if this game was a 2d platformer with hollow knight combat and smash bros pvp

[undone jay]

I might actually like this a lot.

It's reminiscent of oldschool ARPGs

[spice pawn]

I wouldn't mind if someone took the Dark & Darker formula and applied it to a Diablo 2-type game

[stone dome]

How I feel about chivalry 2 but in a warhammer universe 😛

[idle vigil]

But the progression is so much more important than you say the easier to gain a gear advantage the worse the pvp looks for it

[carmine radish]

thats just the path of exile pvp mode kinda dk never played the mode 🫡

[crude quarry]

I'm not sure what you mean by that

[carmine radish]

@vast knot you downvoting my amazing suggestion is not very positive of you🤬

[stone dome]

This is a far too generalized statement that doesn't really say anything of substance or hold up under scrutiny. A plethora of battle royal games prove your statement invalid. They could absolutely increase the item drops making it easier to attain gear without being 'easier to gain a gear advantage over other players'.

[vast knot]

If it was just a spell recommendation I could get behind it 😛

[faint vine]

What games prove his statement invalid?

[dawn elbow]

maybe its been said but in playtest 3 maybe wizards are a lil to strong at the momment

[stone dome]

"invalid" wasn't the correct word. I should have said 'irrelevant'.

[faint vine]

Still do you have any examples to back up your claim?

[stone dome]

any major BR

[idle vigil]

It isnt a BR its an extraction game the aim is for loot per raid not just to kill players

[sudden minnow]

I still don’t get why the sweats can’t just go looking for players if they want to

[stone dome]

many do

[sweet wedge]

Suggestion: Make so explosion and fire damage doesn't go through walls. I.E.: I just died to a skeleton mage cuz it threw a fire ball into the wall and the explosion and/or fire damaged me on the other side of that wall. Additionaly, it would be nice if skeleton mages couldn't lock you from the other side of a wall

[wispy shard]

#1048762118255673428

[sick dawn]

Please buff starting gear. Half the time I can't fight anyone or live long enough to find something decent. And mobs take too long to kill.

[sudden minnow]

The focus is pvp you shouldn’t even be fighting mobs my dude

[hard belfry]

Probably been said before but i'm new, post dungeon stat screen that shows how much damage you output, how many headshots etc.

[undone jay]

nerf haste? x)

[grand tangle]

Funny enough the devs said the focus wasn't even meant to be pvp . Which is kinda weird since this is just DND tarkov

[wispy shard]

pve is an important part of the game

[oblique haven]

haste is barely even the problem, the problem is that ignite and invis can go with it. not sure why wizard should have invis at all tbh. literally just a better rogue

[undone jay]

Nah, I'm just salty as FUCK that I had no chance whatsoever when I was quietly killing some skeletons and suddenly a hasted barbarian runs at me, front-facing, and by the time I turn around to run away, I'm dead

[oblique haven]

yeah i get that

[grand tangle]

You should have honestly have heard those wet meaty slaps a mile away , the hasted barbarian is like regular ranger speed . But it definitely feels bad to get ganked while you're trying to pve

[undone jay]

The funny thing is that I have Kinesthesia? I should have heard them arrive? But I didn't x)

Oh and hasted barbarian is most definitely not regular ranger speed xD that man took some speed before coming to run at me, swear to god

[oblique haven]

especially if they run with no weapon in hand, love sending my boy in with ignite, haste, and invis. makes barb hella scary

[undone jay]

Not that any of that is needed, 1 swing from Barbarian to the Ranger's head is a oneshot anyway rite

I myself had purple pants, blue chest, green gloves and boots, green head

All leather

[grand tangle]

Might have been minor exaggeration but swapping from barbarian and fighter to watch my friends stream their rogue or ranger . And it's like they are freebasing cocaine right into their limbs for everything

[oblique haven]

not a geared ranger, maybe starter kit, i played ranger day 1 of playtest and didnt get one shot once. since then ive played wizard tho

[craggy gate]

yeah i've noticed that kinesthesia either isn't working at all (bugged) or is just barely an increase and therefore super useless

edit: the perk is enhanced hearing* not kinesthesia

[undone jay]

right, yes

[faint vine]

Most major BR's don't let you bring in your own gear...

[signal spear]

longer time in dungean or to not be monsters in every sinlge room it's too little time to fight and go in zone+enemy players lurking around+ you need to loot something (my opinion at least)

[wispy shard]

The game is most definitely a playtest considering how much the game feel changes in between playtests, and the amount of bugs. Also if the scale of the dungeons is like this in final release I would be sorely disappointed. I think most people enjoy the vibe/mechanics of the game but it can definitely be so much more. We don't want to see another marauders type release.

[oblique haven]

id rather longer time on final zone specifically.

[scarlet sedge]

Man I wouldn't want every map to be this way because I really like the PvP but it'd be cool if there were some maps big enough you don't always run into other players for a while

[worldly fox]

Just a suggestion, even though personally I would prefer a solo queue, but perhaps they could just do this which eases the pressure a bit.
#d-and-d-suggestions message

[wispy shard]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[carmine fjord]

rangers die to all category of players I see no point in the nerf. It dies to rogues, it dies to beserkers, warriors, it dies to clerics and sometimes it dies to wizards

[hallow anvil]

@livid fulcrum dont rush the game, good games are made from uninterrupted time. They barely make any progress on new features during playtests, as they're focusing on squashing bugs, to open the game up in its current state would really hold them back from development

[oblique haven]

sometimes wizards? wizards are every classes best counter right now. there is literally no counter for wizard right now

[wispy shard]

Shields are a big problem for rangers as well as being near mandatory for melee. Just bring shields if you hate rangers

[carmine fjord]

I hope they will take a look at my post: https://steamcommunity.com/app/2078890/discussions/0/6580353067881104909/ . I have spent a lot of time creating it. I can expand it more

[dusk olive]

@karmic moth barb's whole idea is he is a tanky, high dps, yet venerable
a shield negates the whole idea

[hallow anvil]

@forest olive hard disagree on giving meditate more spells back, its already really strong if youre using your spells wisely, as a wizard myself i constantly have full spells as i meditate every room, giving more spells back would break the game entirely. Maybe giving 2 or 3 more ticks back would make sense if they increased the cooldown to 120 seconds

[oblique haven]

agreed, wizard needs hard nerfed still. def not buffed

[karmic moth]

Hear me out. They already have low armor options, and the 2 handed weapons are so laughably bad that the best option is running up on people with a hatchet or Horsemen axe. DWing axes is also pointless since they don't attack any faster than just one-handing an axe. Hence, it makes no sense for them to not have anything in that hand. Plus barbs have always been able to use shields in D&D etc.

[hallow anvil]

Meditate is the only nerf i see needed for wizards, otherwise theyre still level with other classes. But meditate on 45 seconds just makes them infinate spellslingers... Coffeelocks, if you will.

[worldly fox]

Wow people really want to stomp on solo's just because it's easier. Made a suggestion to add team members when searching for a game and option to go in solo without adding team members when playing as a solo, and it has downvotes.. like what is happening 😂

[oblique haven]

not even close. a good wizard has no counter and most kills i get are just cheese at this point. no reason for wizard to have invis at all. let alone paired with ignite and haste

[wispy shard]

i dont think barbs need shields. its that shields are too good at negating double handed weapons and also ranged ones. Dual wield should be slightly faster tho.

[karmic moth]

Yeah, I'm positioning that right now Barbs are extremely punished by FIghters, Rangers, and their best option is left handing a single hatchet, or main-handing a Horsemen axe. If they wanted to leave shields out of the kit, then they need to make Barb DWing a thing. Cause right now your signature thing is getting shot to death while enemies casually walk away from you.

[hallow anvil]

D&d isnt their main inspiration for the game,
Two things.
You gain the benefits of the perks for your offhand weapons even on your main hand weapon
Shields just arent what they want for barbarians, the ability to sponge that much damage and block would be far too powerful

@worldly fox the reason people are downvoting that is the other randoms will just kill you for your loot... Tarkov style.

@oblique haven you miss out on good damage spells when you take those, but i see your point. Fact is, ive solod plenty of wizards as a fighter and ive been stomped by a fighter with a shield, because the shield blocks 100% of the damage. Wizards are not even top of the tier list. Being able to play them well doesnt mean the skill requirement trade off makes them op. Playing wizard is harder than playing a fighter, full stop. The reason youre probably having so much ease as wizard, is because you have access to all your spells whenever you need.

[wispy shard]

yeah i have not found barbs to be a challenging opponent yet, but that is because i usually play with a fighter who can just lock them in melee while having a shield. If shields had some kind of stamina attached to them or a chance to break/drop then it could still work. I think giving barb a shield might make him too similar to fighter, but I also think that barbarians item choice is too limited as is, finding barbarian loot is quite rare.

[karmic moth]

They deliberately called it DaD my man. Also, the damage bonus is applied, but they attack at the same speed, so DWing actually just slows you down as a barb, it's mathematically worse.

[oblique haven]

wrong again. ball and dagger are easy to get, with that you can always start with ignite, haste, and invis with starter knowledge. when you use those you can wipe teams before they can react and if you fuck up you haste and invis again and boom your gone. if you play wizard and dont see the problem then you either arent using it to its highest potential or skill issue

[worldly fox]

@hallow anvil To be honest, they already have the normal find a group by manually doing it yourself.. so if that was really a problem there won't be any random party feature apart from playing with friends. Why not just automate the system?

[wispy shard]

honestly in a group of 2 i dont want a random. They could grief and since I cant/wont talk to them, they will probably do dumb things/ attract attention which would honestly be worse than just sticking it out as a duo.

[karmic moth]

Yeah, I definitely don't think giving them a shield would change them too much (though it gives you more options), since all it does is give them an answer to the ranged spam, and they still lack the armor to survive a good player (Rogue/Ranger) blindsiding them anyway. An armored up Barb still takes a ton of damage and a shield would be an answer for a team that didn't want their tank to be a fighter/cleric.

[lilac vale]

A barbarian with a shield is no barbarian.

[granite plinth]

Thoughts on being able to take a non allys heart to resurrect? I meet a lot of friendlies that i wish i can resurrect on the altar.

[worldly fox]

You don't have to find a group, you can just tick the box that says "find other team members". Having the option isn't a bad thing, at least then I have the option. Automate the system as well so it's easier to just dive into a game.

[dusk olive]

mf, 2H weapons are good you need skill

[karmic moth]

Trust, that's not the issue. 2h weapons are great at ambushing people, but most players can just calmly walk away from you, while their team guts you.

[granite plinth]

I have no brain

[hallow anvil]

Terrence LITTERALLY said in an interview it wasnt their main inspiration.

Dwing is a tradeoff for damage, you see it in rogues too!

@oblique haven while ball and dagger are easy to get (never said it wasnt) the primary issue with wizards power is their infinite access to spells, notice that you only have a few uses of your specified combo of spells before you cant do it anymore. Promary difference between last playtest and this playtest are two things
Last playtest,
Could only meditate once
Wizards were incredibly useless

This playtest
Can meditate infinitely, on a 45 second cooldown
Wizards are strong

@worldly fox
The difference on doing it in lfgs, is you usually mic up with these people, making it harder to kill you for your loot without the guilt, once voip is implemented, your automation idea is a fantastic addition

[worldly fox]

My point still stands though, there is already a way to group up with random people in the game, because you can search for players via class on the players list. Why not just automate this system that already exists?

[wispy shard]

As a ranger barbarians with shields would be a big nerf. A barb can one shot you and a player that is ok with a shield can almost completely negate a ranger. I think nerfing shields is a good way to rebalance this. I also find retreating enemies to not be as big of a deal because rooms are pretty small and most movement attracts a bunch of mobs towards you. Usually I find myself against campers more than runners and again shields make camping a lot easier.

[oblique haven]

brother, you start with 5 each of the spells im talking about. thats 2-3 full teams you can wipe easily. also the point is there is no counter to it at all.

[hallow anvil]

The point is, most people arent getting their kills the way you are, congratulations on finding a build that works for you, but its not the most common tactic available. Most are dying to a wizard casting 5 fireballs in 12 seconds, then 4-5 minutes later having them all back. Proud of you for finding a strategy that works well for you! But dont assume because youre better than everyone else, that youre the majority of players.

Also @grand tangle love the name, its the name of my bladesinging barbarian in a d&d campaing im playing

[oblique haven]

no, i didnt find shit. i watched a streamer abuse this combo so i tried it and ive used it ever since. if this stays the same then a meta will form around it because of twitch streamers. a combo should not exist that has no counter play to it. free kills are not a good thing

[karmic moth]

Main inspiration does not equal not inspired at all. The suggestions thread is called D and D suggestions.

@wispy shard Rangers are kinda overtuned, and I think Barbs only ever one-shot people with really good gear. Usually I 2 shot Rangers or Rogues with Rage and a 2h, or 3 shot with the Horsemen axe which they can't outrun, and has a better TTK... While Rangers can kill me with one use of a skill.

I don't know how I feel about a shield nerf, since they're not that annoying in melee, I just bop around them, but that's anecdotal. So the general experience might be different. I see their main power in opposing rangers/fighters with bows. Also, in a game where camping is the strongest strat, being the all in guy is very weak, speed being the most important factor.

[grand tangle]

The movement speed penalty on two handed weapons is ridiculous, aside from the bardiche most of the weapons aren't that much heavier than the 1 handed options in real life. The long swing animations making people casually walk away from you mid swing because you also move like youre wading through cold oatmeal is ...I dunno just whack ?

@hallow anvil thanks I use it for basically everything I can

[hallow anvil]

Nobody said they're free kills. Just that it's a more complex tactic that clearly youre quite good at, but its not what most wizard kills are being attributed to.

@karmic moth never said it wasnt an inspiration, just that it wasnt the main inspiration. I.e just because its in d&d doesnt mean it goes in DaD

[oblique haven]

when it has no counter to it then yes it 100% is free kills. also its not a hard combo to learn when i could do it almost right away.

[hallow anvil]

@oblique haven as i said, congrats on being better than everyone else then, your skill is not the indicator that something needs a nerf, most common attributed deaths are what indicates a nerf is needed. Its analytics man, i respect that youre one of the top wizards out here, probably on a leaderboard somewhere idk, but fact is, most wizards arent playing this way.

[oblique haven]

but they will over time. i was able to use this strat right away with no practice. watched a streamer do it once and boom i could do it. Its not that im simply better. its that its easy to do and has no counter which is a problem

[karmic moth]

Yeah, it's insane, it's honestly just the slow while swinging, combined with the long animation that is uber punishing. Rangers in full gear with a Longbow can straight up treat you like a skeleton mob lol.

@hallow anvil Yeah, and I'm not trying to say it must be added, I just think it adds another option to the game. You cannot design a game around negative decision making space. Shields are only considered super OP because the dominance of ranger/rogue (Not saying they don't need a nerf). The two classes most impacted by them.

[wispy shard]

I do agree that rangers are strong but I don’t think making them worse vs barbarians would help. Rangers are kind of the jack of all trades right now with a pretty high health pool, good damage output and interact speed. Then again they are useless in melee so I think a small move speed nerf would be better.

[hallow anvil]

Your tactic is stealth and ignite. A counter is fireball, knocks you back and hits you regardless of location,

For the last time, im proud of you bud, you did good being the best wizard out there. But for the love of god your skill isnt indicative of what needs to change.

@karmic moth mm good point, wizards spell damage is blocked by them too, i think the aspect theyre going for is the classic "i sponge damage" barbarian, less the "im an impenetrable wall" barb, yknow? I personally think barbarians need some sort of sustainability, like a heal ability, or a bandage starter, even increasing the range of the damage reduction shout might work, but i just dont think a shield is the right fix

[oblique haven]

thats not a counter when they dont know im there. stop acting like im the best buddy. everything should have a counter and i promise this doesnt

[grand tangle]

Not even just rangers and wizards, rogues can see a barbarian start a two handed swing . Go in stab twice and walk out of range before swing completes . Very little counter play option .

There honestly isn't any real rationale for the barbarian to be slow and then give them weapons to further slow them

The fact that some mobs can swing through your recovery if your spacing isn't 100% on point is frustrating. And if we get to the skeleton champion and centaur boss ? Forget about it.

[karmic moth]

I don't think Barbs getting shields is the silver bullet against Rangers at all. Since you're not meaningfully changing anything about class representation in the game. People will still play Fighter/Cleric for other reasons. Barb would still be much weaker against Rangers than either of the other two classes due to no built in defense like armor, or spell shields.

@hallow anvil Oh 100% they want to do health sponge, and shields 100% aren't the only possible answer. I just think the archtype of big HP/slow doesn't work. You need one or the other. Consider that barbs only have 30 more HP than fighters base. So they're really not getting a lot of extra tank out there.

[hallow anvil]

Jesus christ, its like playing chess with a pidgeon, I'm done trying to have a civil discussion with you.

@grand tangle barbarians have a rage shout that increases speed. This is good for their recovery, i think they have what they need in terms of speed, but it feels like it lasts too short. Could be just me though 🤷🏽

@karmic moth they have a speed shout that works well, but i feel like it needs an extra second, mine always runs out right before a big swing
And 30 damage is kind of big, thats an extra hit from most weapons. Sometimes 2

@carmine current thanks! I feel the struggle when half my vault is full of coin pouched lol. Im not sure about making it 500 gold, seems like a lot.

[carmine current]

i like the suggestion idea from #d-and-d-suggestions message
to add a safe or vault to store money in. I think it would be interesting to have that safe be able to take up like 9 slots or so, then be able to put about 20 spaces worth of gold or bags only in it. The devs could even make a safe like that a big money sink where it costs about 500 gold, and on top of that you would still need to buy the 5 gold bags to maximize the space.

[wispy shard]

I’ve never found spell shields or armour to be a problem but in fighting fighters and clerics it’s the shields that make them much harder to fight. Spell shields do not even absorb one arrow and most of the time I’m trying to weaken enemies that are in melee or pick off wizards.

[grand tangle]

Honestly barbarian doesn't need a defensive option to tank up. They need a mobility option .

Because the hp difference between fighters and barbarians disappears when you take the damage mitigation the fighter has access to .

@hallow anvil the rage shout has very low duration , which you need to close the gap ,and it might be an issue with weapon swapping being clunky , but the optimal play is to put weapon away . Shout with fists out to try and close gap and then switch to weapon and attack , problem is that you're also slowed down further during swing animation (it in curse a massive movement penalty) so anybody that is walking away from you will just walk away

[oblique haven]

you just dont have a valid argument dude. saying im the best is not an argument. even if what you said is a counter, its a lucky one. not to mention that would mean only wizards can counter wizards and that just proves my point more.

[karmic moth]

Oh, don't get me started on Rage, it's definitely their best ability; but that's a problem. It's an auto-pick every time because speed is the best stat in the game. It definitely expires too quickly, or doesn't give enough speed, or maybe it needs to interact with the swing speed slow-down somehow. I'm not sure.

@wispy shard Consider that the only thing your archer struggles against is shields though. If you're easily able to avoid all melee threats and the only answer is a plank they need to use to intercept your attack, that's pretty telling. In every game when you're on the offence you have more options than when you're on defense. Shields also don't auto-block, I've been killed a ton with leg shots on my fighter. Not saying shields are the only solution though, reducing archer damage, ammo, more mobility for other classes, are all options. I jsut think shield for barbs is the most elegant, and creates the most player choice/skill expression.

@grand tangle 30 hp is a lot sometimes. Because of the low armor, and the massive difference in weapon damage/quality. I've been 2 shot by most classes, except Rogue, who still have really low TTK but they stab like 4 times. Additional movespeed, or reduced movespeed reduction are 100% possible solutions.

[craggy gate]

ranger struggles against wizard, shields, and clerics. there's a dozen ways to counter ranger, this discussion has already happened like 6 times

also if you crouch while blocking it's almost impossible to hit your legs, learn to crouch while blocking ranger shots

[oblique haven]

agreed, only thing ranger needs a nerf on is utility. no reason for them to start with 3 traps and be able to buy them for so cheap

[karmic moth]

This isn't so much a Nerf Rangers, as it was Barbs need help conversation. If you're being forced to crouchwalk in a teamfight you're probably losing. Assuming it's not like 3 Rangers (which definitely happens).

[wispy shard]

shields and clerics are good counters to ranger. Ive never struggled against a wizard I actually think ranger beats wizard because of higher projectile speeds. Ive very rarely seen people run away from a barbarian because its very easy to get cornered in this game. I think all ranger really needs is slightly lower move speed compared to barbarian.

[oblique haven]

yeah fuck 3 ranger teams LOL but my friend mains barb and has no problem vs rangers. bait their kill and then push. if that feels hard then try getting a teammate to play wizard to give you haste buff

[grand tangle]

@karmic moth sadly because heals aren't % based raw hp is one of the worse options to have as a defensive measure (except true x damage) because effective HP with armor is higher it also means the heals they receive are functionally better .

[craggy gate]

yes barbarian could use a speed buff, but wizards beat ranger with a well-placed fireball, for some reason a lot of wizards just decide to stand still and magic missle & get headshotted instantly

[hallow anvil]

@grand tangle yeah for both of you i 100% agree, rage needs longer duration. Its not a huge buff as that also increases incoming damage for a longer duration

[wispy shard]

fireballs aoe is definitely too large for the spell cost yeah, but i usually manage to catch wizards off guard. It is probably a lot harder with a recurve or survival bow because burst damage is what stops me from dying to wizards because if they can get more than one spell off its usually game over

[hallow anvil]

This, its litterally the whole concept of bear totem barn

Just good math

[spice pawn]

Yeah, the absolute hit point healing is why Barb HP pool advantage is largely just a momentary advantage (right at the start of a fight) -- otherwise you need more healing items to "stock back up" on his class's advantage, which again will only be an upside for the start of a fight

[ripe wing]

Bruh, this is game is just unplayable solo

[craggy gate]

i win solos all the time

[karmic moth]

I've topped out at 7 kills in a lobby as a solo barb (the 8th victim and I died to swarm at the final circle lol), I know how to ambush barb; but that doesn't mean they aren't too weak on average.

@grand tangle Totally agree, flat HP on it's own is kinda bad. It needs to be paired with meaningful resistance.

@wispy shard Cornering only really happens if the ranger makes a mistake though. The primary strategy of the "counters" to ranger rely on the Ranger still messing up (since cleric is more of a camping strategy) and if you're making people shield they're not doing anything and are vulnerable to your allies, that's still not a decision made by the enemy, that's a decision being forced on the Ranger. Too many people close doors behind themselves lol. Not saying Rangers are invincible, and Barbs are babies though, they're still viable, just very weak relatively speaking in most encounters, it's called Impact, how much Impact can a spec or class generate in different situations determines it's power.

[grand tangle]

Also wanted to ask here . But is the HP shout bugged ? I tried using it a lot and I never felt it did anything skeletons seemed to always do same percentage of my hp bar when theoretically the shout should have absorbed a full swing every time .

I've since thrown it in the literal garbage and swapped to only rage and fear shout because the pve utility + dmg debuff is too huge to pass up, and the speed is just necessary

[spice pawn]

just unlearn the press 'W' + LMB chad-the-game playstyle and channel your inner rat bastard. always excessive caution. you'll begin to win more often (aggressive retreat is often the right call)

[hallow anvil]

Yeah, seems like the only way for them to maintain hp during a fight is the weakness shout, then chugging two different rarity potions

[ancient lily]

https://youtu.be/7qKq7svsLWM

[wispy shard]

you dont always need to make a mistake to close on a ranger if you think about your positioning. Don't pick fights with rangers in large open areas, go around them, block them off or camp them. Or if you really want to fight head on, move in a zigzag and put their allies inbetween you and them.

[hallow anvil]

Man i love the book

@grand tangle i think it might be not working as intended, adding the 25 hitpoints to your lower end, making you still take the full damage if that makes sense.

[vocal kelp]

"Suggestion from Nubslayer#7665
revert the amount of portal to normal" what is normal?

[ripe wing]

How's he healing during the 2nd fight?

[karmic moth]

It gives you whole hit-points, not temp HP. So you lose the HP after seven seconds. You can 100% die when it expires (if you're at or under 25% hp) so I never take it.

@wispy shard Not always, but most of the time the Ranger has to mess up first. Even zig-zagging, or using enemies as shields doesn't mitigate really good ranger play. As far as Barb power goes, they have insane impact in an ambush. Because offence > defense, you reduce your enemies decision making space to as close to 0 as possible, and wipe them while they're confused.

[hallow anvil]

He chugged two different rarities of potions, the same potions effects dont stack, but if theyre two different raritiesz theyre considered two different types of potions, and will apply both effects i.e chugging a white and grey potion effectively recover 50 hp

@karmic moth feels like they meant to give temp hit points, maybe its not working as intended. Should be acting like a shield, not a bandaid to a gunshot wound

[karmic moth]

I think you're right, it's probably meant to be Temp Hp; because as it stands it buys you maybe a hit, and you can still die if you win the fight? The potion thing is wild lol.

[hallow anvil]

Right? I also feel thats unintended, as its super abuseable. If you get a green potion you can buy a grey and a white and turn yourself into kirito from SAO, and it kind of just breaks a whole ass encounter

[wispy shard]

Yeah, rangers that are extremely good wont hit their own teammates and can land hits on erratically moving enemies a lot of the time, but extremely good barbs will be able to ambush a ranger a lot more easily. Theyre just different playstyles and skill sets.

[fresh jetty]

Why would you downvote to make the stash accountwide if you can trade stuff anyway. Its just more convenient.

[karmic moth]

I think the point I'm trying to isolate, is that Rangers have more situations where their offence is safe, guaranteed, and impactful. In order to do anything to a Ranger you're already asking the melee goons to creep around, or adapt, where the ranger does nothing different, they aren't forced to make any decisions but to shoot normally and wander around. That's not even a bad thing, there exists the concept of the first order optimal strategy. It's good to have more generous play-styles in games. Full stop. The only problem is that in competitive games like this, those strategies get used by high-skill players, that's what creates the issues. It's the design concept that created the stealth archer in Skyrim.

@hallow anvil No shot it stays in lol. Not enough of the playerbase will adapt it, so it would be overbearingly powerful for a small group of players.

[wispy shard]

But rangers have to constantly make sure they arent being ambushed. Being in melee range is insta death. So yeah rangers do have to position. Melee characters have the upper hand in an ambush/cqc, ranged characters have the upper hand in a defence.

[craggy gate]

it is, again, incredibly easy to counter a ranger, a cleric rush wins 90% of the time

[karmic moth]

Any ranger with the triple shot still in their pocket is a huge CQC threat. I don't think Rangers are nearly as handicapped in melee as you think, especially with spears as an extremely strong option.

[wispy shard]

i havent tried spear yet and it probably is good but its also really easy to bait a ranger into dropping their triple shot or missing. Jiggle peeking is a huge counter to ranger especially in late stages of the game where the area is very small.

[hallow anvil]

Yeah i feel it was an oversight, the effect of chugging a new potion should be
If Potion status 1, 2, 3, 4 = true "buff is already applied" Then Potion status 1, 2, 3, 4 = false "remove buff" Potion status 3 = true "add new potion buff" Else Potion status 3 = true End

[karmic moth]

You're still asking the Ranger to make a mistake by not properly being stealthy. Or by exhausting all of their offence early. I basically never get ambushed playing solo because I creep around like a Rat lol.

[wispy shard]

but all combat relies on mistakes really. Whiff punishing, dodging, ambushes of all sorts. If you dont make the mistake of fighting a ranger in their comfortable range then you will win more against them. Its also really hard to be "stealthy" as a ranger as part of a group.

[hallow anvil]

But its probably closer currently to

If Potion status 3 = true "buff is already applied Then Potion status 3 = false "remove buff" Potion status 3 = true "add new potion buff" Else Potion status3= true End

But seperated in 4 lines for each if the rarities

[karmic moth]

I mean, you're not really providing any reasons for me to take your word. Cause yeah, the side that makes less mistakes will on average win, that's exactly why having a class that has more situations where they don't have the chance to make mistakes is a balance issue. Having more impact in more encounters will increase your chance to win. Offence forces defense to make mistakes, so having more universally potent offence will force the other team to make more mistakes.

[grand tangle]

Honestly I don't even mind the strong classes being strong . As long as it fits class identity . I'd rather the under performers be brought up to par .

Any time you can begin an engagement perfectly and the opponent can choose to just walk away from it and there is nothing you can do about it feels really bad . This is why a lot of my focus has been on the movement speed of the barbarian, if its going to be an all in class , then it needs to be all in

[burnt arch]

If you're giving chase, put away your weapon and take off all your gear so you move faster

[karmic moth]

100% I've not suggested a single nerf for Ranger, it only became Ranger centric conversation because I soft-balled shields as a solution and people are kinda trained on this discord to defend their favorite class.

[meager iron]

Suggestion: @blazing jackalerator (discord) make each class role a different color to better recognize classes for team building
That way we don’t have to click on accounts to see the preferred class

[hallow anvil]

I would love to see barbarians get a little leap ability honestly. Feels like it would be a great addition to get into the fight.

Then again, im also reminiscent of diablo 2 and dnd.
Hence the money safe basically being a horadric cube 🤣

[grand tangle]

Your base movement is slower than most classes innately , and while you are equip your weapon and commence swing animations they will walk away from you .

Most of my solo kills have been from clerics and fighters engaging me because they thought they were going to kill me. Then they whiff and I can use rage to chase for final swing . But anybody chooses to just leave . Very hard pressed to catch up specially if they've left doors open behind them .

Because doors are a mystery to the barbarian filled with immutable complexity

[burnt arch]

Just smash the door down if barb

[karmic moth]

Yeah, more mobility would be a good answer, I was honestly thinking that rather than get slower during swing speed they should get a little mini-dash forward. Probably too strong, but something interacting with their swing positively would help a lot with their already really slow speed.

@grand tangle I always run Smash because I love running through doors that people spend time closing on me.

[hallow anvil]

Wait, is it? I thought everyone had same movement speed, it was just clothing and weapon dependant

@karmic moth yeah a dash forward would be far too strong

[grand tangle]

Perfectly placed bardiche swing clanks off of nothing

*Sad noises ensue

[craggy gate]

nope classes have different speeds

[karmic moth]

Yeah, every piece of gear slows you down, and classes have different speeds, and weapons all apply a move speed reduction when swinging, but on heavy weapons the animation is really long, so you basically move at a snail's pace and people can casually walk away from you.

[hallow anvil]

Doesnt taking damage slow you down? All you should need to do is leap in with a proposed ability, hit then be like jax and go wackwackWACK

[grand tangle]

I believe damage causes a mini stagger but doesn't apply a debuff slow

[karmic moth]

The issue with the 2h Barb axes is the stagger from the hit is shorter than your recovery animation and the second swing animation. It's why the 1 handed axes are actually super good for Barb. I'm pretty sure even poison and fire dots apply the stagger.

[hallow anvil]

Dumb. That should be a perk for barbs.

[sturdy spear]

Not every ranger plays bow 😦
I usually die if there's a rogue nearby

[hallow anvil]

We really need some data to look at for barbs, as they are performing poorly this test.

@sturdy spear if youre not playing mostly bow as a ranger, you should probably be playing fighter

[storm cargo]

Aye what does the green line mean on the side of a suggestion?

[hallow anvil]

Pretty sure it means opinion>15, probably a way for devs to identify which ones to ACTUALLY look at

Confirmed, means opinion is 15 or above

[sturdy spear]

I like crossbows what can you do

[sturdy spear]

I think any windclass crossbow that is blue rarity should one shot in the head since it's very difficult to hit and reloading takes an eon

[hallow anvil]

HARD disagree. Thats way too stronk. Crossbow is meant as a opening shot, then reload later, hence why its usable for wizards

[sturdy spear]

forsenCD my man @burnt arch

[jagged oracle]

#d-and-d-suggestions message Please take a look at this.

[vocal kelp]

"reduce ally collision its aids. and remove %percent stat gain on gear as its useless unless its 5% increase which is RARE ASF KEEP FLAT STAT GAIN REMOVE %PERCENT" Mostly your use of the word aids, "ASF" and caps lock. just bad etiquette. Aside from that, ally collision is important for the game mechanics. Also removing % based scaling instead of making the %'s better is not the way. Even if we agree that the %'s are low. I will say, not all %'s are even and some definitely need to be stronger and/or would be better as a flat stat OR a higher %. Maybe a middle ground would be to have %'s more common on rarer items as they are more impactful for geared players.

[lone valley]

A sound that lets you know your party is ready would be appreciated

[hallow anvil]

Holy crap, suggest that right now in the #1048762118255673428 channel

[spice pawn]

Yeah, readying up should be like when you select a character class in Diablo 2 -- they stand up, do an animation, and you hear sound effects

[hallow anvil]

https://tenor.com/blhOD.gif

[undone jay]

I play Crossbow/Spear Ranger, too xD

With the requisite perks for them, as well as Trap Expert and Enhanced Hearing

[sturdy spear]

I think there should be more skills for crossbow as currently there are NONE lol

[granite plinth]

There is one

[wooden wigeon]

@fathom bolt You do realize that wizard's invis only lasts 4 seconds right? You only get full "mobility" and speed boost for 4 seconds.

[fathom bolt]

You also get full mobility and a speed boost (as opposed to rogue that has to use a perk slot just to be able to slow move/crouch for 10 steps with a 45 second cooldown)

[sturdy spear]

If you are talking about the one that makes projectiles faster
Don't count on it, it's not great at all

[wicked plover]

I still think that longer durations between testing would be good for the game/devs to avoid community hype being lost by the time release comes around.
People love the game now (and want to pay to support the game now) and will probably hold some sentiment when it does come out late next year, but most people want to eat their fill of it and feed off it for a few months or so, and they will probably move on.
Many will still buy the game when it comes out, but in my opinion if a playtest where to be every few months instead it would keep it exciting for a larger majority.
That said, I’m not going to pretend to know the value the devs gain from frequent testing small changed vs. buffered testing big overhauls.

[granite plinth]

No there is one that increases damage and reload

[sturdy spear]

That's not an ability that's a perk 😐

[fathom bolt]

You can just recast it up to 5 times before needing to meditate. If you do that with a decent dagger and ignite you’re basically a rogue on steroids

[hallow anvil]

https://giphy.com/gifs/ctv-jannonctv-jann-arden-99xJCGr5rdUESxnEDu

[wooden wigeon]

@fathom bolt Removing wiz's invis is not the answer, I don't even use it since it uses so much spell cost. If you don't want him to have full mobility then it should be the same duration as stealth with only crouch+walk movement. Also, it takes cast time to even cast invis, like 2 seconds

[undone jay]

What do you mean xD

[granite plinth]

You said skills. So need to define your own wording.

[stuck hill]

Why do people still want the endgame insta-kill? It's an unfun mechanic and is frustrating to die to.

[sturdy spear]

Skill and ability is the same thing
Skill or ability are active buffs
Perks are passive buffs
I was clear

[hallow anvil]

I mean I'm dissapointed in you, i expected better from an anime profile pic.

@sturdy spear @granite plinth chill plz, semantics is worthless, accept a misunderstanding.

@undone jay even worse

[undone jay]

But it aint an anime profile pic, it's my character from FFXIV xD

[granite plinth]

Just looking for clarity. But ye

[vocal kelp]

arguing semantics is the lowest form of discourse.

[grand tangle]

To be fair the game can have longevity as long as they do it right.

The constant streamer play is also dragging huge crowds to what normally would have been a tiny play test .

Can't wait to see what the game looks like on release since they've stated a lot of the models are placeholders at the moment .

[sturdy spear]

I didn't type anything toxic at all just clarified that i was not wrong 👍

[granite plinth]

What's your suggestion for a crossbow ability then? Maybe gain some armor pen?

[hallow anvil]

Thats even WORSE, slap on a longbow, does the same bullshit amount of damage, but you can fire more than once

Not to mention triple shot longbow is 🤌

[sturdy spear]

Oh that would be nice but not for an active buff i think
I think a crossbow active buff that makes your crossbow explosive for one shot would be nice

[undone jay]

o.ô

But uh

Crossbows do standard 50 damage

The normal crossbows, not the big useless ones

[granite plinth]

A poisoned tip would be too much as well I think

[sturdy spear]

It would be very weak unless that poison does a lot of damage
But i like the idea of being able to shoot an explosive arrow

[hallow anvil]

Longbows are pretty close to that, when you account for a SECOND shot, you get massive damage.

@sturdy spear they added this to hunt..
I hate it

[undone jay]

I will grant you that bows have more burst damage, but believe me when I say that Crossbows are fine, they're good

[granite plinth]

One that breaks doors and does a small amount of damage on the other side of the door. That would be cool

[sturdy spear]

Maybe themselves are fine yeah but they need active ranger buffs you can use for

[pseudo fjord]

less mobs

[undone jay]

Totally, I still like the crossbow more than the bows, I'm not even trynna bait you here, I'm being genuine

[desert bloom]

Normally, and I assume it applies here, a "playtest" has a purpose. A general playtest is usually testing all parts of the game, but typically early play tests in Alpha (like this game) have some specific things the devs want to see. So I assume the time between tests is dependent upon how often and what the devs need to see certain things in actual interaction.

My hope is that the devs generally ignore balancing feedback from players at the moment -- who mostly have devolved into a mob of "my class is fine" -- who don't even have knowledge on the direction the game is going to be taking, and instead focus on usability feedback (what are players interacting with, what are they not interacting with) and "fun" feedback (what do players enjoy, what do they not enjoy). And of course, technical issues such as servers, hitboxes, models, game performance, etc. etc.

Yea, though internal testing can be good for finding obvious gamebreaking bugs and obviously anti-fun or broken things. So as long as they use both types effectively it should be fine.

[wicked plover]

Yeah like I said, I’m not going to pretend to know the value of their testing they aim to gain, as I’m sure there is a decent degree of calculated decisions going on. But yeah, my only concern is that myself and others will burnout on the game cycle and small changes won’t cut it to keep me actually desiring to play the game with a similar amount of enthusiasm as I have had for the game.

[desert bloom]

Yea, we'll just have to see where it goes

cant be slower development than tarkov 😆

[robust niche]

Can we get a proper trade system, trade chat is not the 1

[graceful frost]

Trade chat isn’t too bad but yeah I feel like it could be better

[austere thorn]

i think the best xmas prezzie we could get is extended test time for another week or so 🙂

[dense olive]

It should be extented to 25th of december, many people can play only on weekends.

[graceful frost]

When’s the current test end?

[austere thorn]

23rd i belive

[cold dagger]

solo queue?

[somber wind]

@bitter stratus I'm wondering why you're against Permanent servers?

I feel like having the option between playing Seasonal AND Permanent servers would be ideal

[hardy mason]

I think we should be able to refresh our default equipment instead of having to put our good gear in the stash, joining a game and then leaving to have 3 traps again on the ranger for example

[somber wind]

I know for sure that I'm already semi-demotivated to play during the alphas since I know all my work is going to be deleted later. I know that with the main game I'll do a few wipes before not playing anymore unless there is a permanent server. I'd still play the seasonals for sure but having a server with no wipes that I could play when I don't want to have to rebuild entirely would be alot of fun and it'd allow for deeper build testing.

[glad depot]

Interesting thought on wizard, same should be applied to clerics and any other spell caster added to the game in the future. #d-and-d-suggestions message

[leaden marten]

Bard Incoming 🙂

[late roost]

if you're talking about the ignite haste invis, i started doing it yesterday and its very broken, but its not going to get nerfed until a lot of people start doing it probably, still lots of fun though and its for sure better than playing rogue in a team at least.

[oblique haven]

yes i was and yeah its insanely broken. actually crazy how good it is and how easy it is to do

[late roost]

yeah just had to get some gold first so i could buy ball and dagger and was just killing people easily

[oblique haven]

yeah i really do hope the devs catch on sooner than later. something this broken makes pvp very boring

[normal lava]

@solar smelt The problem with cleric getting a crossbow, is that they'd be broken with it. Smite + Divine strike + brewmaster would make them disgusting with ranged weapons. Maybe a ranged spell will be given eventually, but a ranged weapon can't happen. This coming from a cleric main at the moment -- If you want a buff for cleric, it'd be interaction speed.

[solar smelt]

I play cleric too and yeah those two would be broken but clerics could have a slower reload to compensate it

[worn notch]

please do not create solo lobbies. 2 player lobbies min

[frail laurel]

They need to add fill ingame

[lofty yarrow]

Take away classes and allow more freedom for charcter builds

[drowsy grotto]

make bucklers bigger

[lofty yarrow]

Take way classes and allow more freedom for chartcter builds. Allow Base classes to start off with lfor weapns like staff and shit but allow people to build classes based off of int and stength ...ect

[bitter stratus]

Guys, if you have suggestions use #1048762118255673428 so its logged for later. Just throwing them into this chat is pointless as discussion is going to drown them out

[winged pulsar]

@lofty yarrow Troll?

[lofty yarrow]

No a legit one

[rustic cairn]

rogues dont need a buff friend lol

[upper sonnet]

Only thing for Hide I would like is maybe make it so you can't hear their footsteps when moving to give them something over Wizz Invis

[rustic cairn]

I mean... its not hard to gank people even if they "hear" you and we have Creep as a passive that works even not in stealth

[paper light]

Wizards are better rogues currently. There's no way you can say that 5 charges of 5 spells are not significantly better than a 30 second cooldown on Hide

[upper sonnet]

Creep sucks, if you have a decent headset you can still be heard

[rustic cairn]

If you think that killing a wiz as a rogue is hard in any way shape or form you are joking lol they cant even use missiles if you walk into them and the fireball hurts them if you are close so they have to kamikaze you with it if they even could channel before you stab them like 3 times. Your only "disadvantage" is you are melee and they are ranged which can be solved by knowing how to play as a rogue

[proven falcon]

Question. Where will the devs be discussing some of the suggestion, if at all, that got positive votes in majority? Im smooth brain when looking for stuff. Will there be like a town hall where we can listen in?

[paper light]

You're missing the point entirely. The kit of Rogue, as it is now, does not allow the range of outplay potential that both Wizard and Ranger bring since you have access to your kit once every 30 seconds. Compare that to Wizard's spell inventory (able to use both haste/invis for engage or disengage 5 times during one fight) or the fact that you can literally drop 20 traps in the ending circles as Ranger. EDIT: I did a full wipe as solo Rogue, I know how to kill solos and how to fight groups

[late raptor]

God hates rangers

[storm galleon]

Get good

[late raptor]

I am good, I don't use bows. Bowcucks stay seething

[upper sonnet]

The only respectful Ranger is the Spear only Ranger 😤

[rustic cairn]

you are not meant to be able to freely cast - your stealth is a large advantage where they heard people walk into a room and that "30 seconds" that you are complaining about where you take 2 skills to hide and then be able to walk invis is a huge advantage. I have literally taken out 3 people which consisted of a Ranger a Wiz and a Cleric by hiding at an appropriate time... shanking the ranger.. killing the wizard and then fighting the cleric in a 1v1. While its "Kit" may not be a ranger heal or a spell wheel (which should obviously be different considering thats their entire ability to even kill monsters as a wizard) you are in no way not able to pvp because you lack in it. There is just a hard limit on how OP that is which thank god because imagining a No CD rogue hiding with a consumable they can spam whenever while having the ability to run around with no sound to their steps sounds absolutely terrible.

[normal lava]

Even with a slow reload speed, you're still 1 shotting most people on a body hit and tankier classes with a HS. It's too powerful. It's a shotgun at worst. A beyond disgusting sniper at best.

[winged pulsar]

@paper light It's not the fact we have a CD, that is fine, it's the fact that wizards can run while invisi, rogues stealth perk needs to not have a step counter, allowing arogue to reposition during the entire hide duration, albeit at a slow rate/walking etc

[solar smelt]

To run divine strike and a crossbow you would be giving up a melee weapon, you don’t think that’s balanced ?

[rustic cairn]

@winged pulsar Rogues don't need the ability to walk around invis for 30 seconds because they hid around a corner shanked someone and now would like to go invis run away heal and come shank someone again until they pick your whole team apart - Does no one think thats broken? LOL Base this off of someone actually very skilled at pvp and you will not think this is a great idea when you have to be on the receiving end of it. It will go like this -> Rogue hides in dark corner with hidden pockets. Rogue shivs your wiz/ranger. Rogue stealths. 30 Second no footsteps leaves combat. Heals / grabs buffs from statues. Rogue comes back in shivs next char then invis again. Rinse Repeat.

[paper light]

I'm sorry you can't figure out a counter play to stealth like listening with your ears, shutting a door, hitting the rogue in stealth, running more gear than being naked, casting invis, laying traps to guard your back.... oh wait those were all valid options

[rustic cairn]

I bet you money you play a wizard and even as is right now I will find a way to kill you before you can cast invis and run lol

[winged pulsar]

What? lol
They most certainly do, the wizard has 5 charges of instant stealth with running speed on demand, we have a 45 second CD and cant move, it's ass in comparison, there's nothing wrong with taking a perk to allow a rogue to walk while stealthed for more than 10 steps, in all games with rogues they have this, this game just limited them to standing still, which sucks for the class fantasy/gameplay, especially when in the game with wizards, straight up an ignite wizard is a better rogue than a rogue

[rustic cairn]

Take stealth off the wizard if you wanna fix that then dont buff rogues they dont need it - it doesn't make sense. They are not weak in pvp at all remotely... unless you are fighting a full armor fighter toe to toe

[orchid badger]

If youre not kiting armored people to the dickens youre not doing it right

[paper light]

I'd rather see the devs bring classes UP to par with the stronger ones than nerfing down dynamic play styles. Wiz spells give you optionS. That's with an "s" at the end as in more than one. Hide gives you one option.

[winged pulsar]

rogue gets clapped in a 1v1 against a competent player, the advantage they have is purely the stealth, which is severely limited by making them stand still and pray someone walks by, even with all the stealth buffs and your 3 second window to land a hit it does not always work if they have greasy gear or in most cases a pocket healer, in team fights rogue is only good if it comes up behind the team while they are distracted, they don't need to remove invisi from mages, they just need to give rogues stealth perk a buff

[rustic cairn]

its all hallways... what do you mean "Pray they walk by" they will walk by... camp the zone and sit by a door put some lights out. Its rly not complicated at all. Pair with a ranger who has traps even better now you are stuck and getting stabbed.

[idle vigil]

They can simply not go there since they can see there is no lights which is a huge giveaway the only time you can ever force someone is if its in the final area then you have an entire other issue

[paper light]

If that's what you're going to do then you're just as well off doing it with a barb in the shadows. Or a hasted, ignited, invisible Wiz LOL

[rustic cairn]

Wanna know how many people I have got with that? Honestly? People are not all elite pvp pros - Its so easy to kill with a rogue that it hurts that you guys think it isnt lol wait til someone is fighting mobs stealth crouch into the room shiv the shit out of them wow easy... I have literally seen people get squad wiped in 3 mans to skeletons who are you kidding? lol

[winged pulsar]

Yeah, not to mention that rangers literally see your footsteps and can track you down to where you are lol, the other day I got a clip of a buddy and I double rangering and we just tracked a rogue into a room and shot in the spot we figured he was, killing him, hide is good, but not being able to reposition makes you a sitting duck if people have awareness

[paper light]

I'm glad you can kill new naked fresh spawns dying to pve with gusto, that's not really a good measure of class balance is it? EDIT: Also I bet I could have killed them faster with 1 fireball or a quiver of arrows.

[idle vigil]

I expect people to try play the game and not just throw away their lives

[rustic cairn]

I wasn't saying I run around yoinking noobs I was saying you give people too much credit they aren't all gods of pvp but good use of my words ya got me - I did indeed say people die to skeletons in the same sentence

[winged pulsar]

@paper light Exactly, you don't balance characters/game off fresh/noobs, you balance off of geared high level players, and in these scenarios rogue falls short out side of getting a cheeky kill if someones pants are down, I have 50 hours in this playtest and without a doubt ranger/wizard/fighter/cleric seem to be the way when actually try harding

[idle vigil]

Honestly there is a question about people running 2 rangers and a fighter that shit is absurd

[rustic cairn]

If you wanna talk about balance take a bit and think about fighters fully stacked with a bow side arm and a cleric healer then talk about balance again lol

[paper light]

I just want Hide to be on par with how good other class defining skills are. No cooldown (but there are other restrictions) on heals, wiz spells, traps, etc.

[idle vigil]

Id like smoke bomb to be a bit more viable

[winged pulsar]

@paper light I don't want hide to become a limited use option of casts, I think the balancing of a CD is good, I just think that taking a perk like stealth for slow movement should be more impactful, 10 steps is garbage, and compared to a wizards stealth it makes hide worse

[steep basin]

make a vision difference in the different items, like potions and bandages

[paper light]

@winged pulsar why not? you could bring 50 in if you felt like risking the gold the same way you can bring in 50 traps. Make it so you can gather up the ashes from a campfire to get back 5 or so in raid. Replenishing limited use at a campfire is already an accepted mechanic for other classes as is risking gold by bringing in the items. In order to bring Hide in line with other skills, it has to offer restealth in the duration of a fight. Fights generally don't last > 30sec so to modify it with just CD it would have to be pretty short.

[winged pulsar]

@paper light Stealth should be an innate ability, not a consumable, and beyond that factor it would be beyond broken if a rogue could stealth any time they want instantly multiple times in a fight, would 100% be too much damage from always getting ambush procs

a CD is definitely the way
or alternatively if you don't want a CD then do what wow does, make it so that the rogue can ONLY stealth IF they are not in LOS (Line of Sight), that way if the rogue wants a restealth they have to run away and get a moment to do so

either way all I truly want here is to be able to walk around in my hide usages, if they just did that I would not complain about a 45 second CD

[paper light]

What do you mean too much damage. The ranger 3 shot is on an 18 sec cooldown and you can do that with a longbow. A restealth still means you have to avoid getting hit, get in melee range again, find the back of the person, and get ONE boosted swing

[random spade]

Honestly, i'm suprised that the Ranger class isn't talked about more here. Where all classes feel scuffed ( the right kind ) you just throw in a Ranger with a Green or higher Longbow and he becomes a hitscan 1 or 2 shot machine. High Role lobbies have bacame a cuckfest consisting of 50% or more Rangers poking and rotating each other the whole game, instead of the versatile gameplay we all liked in p2. In short, Ranger meta has ruined the higher end of gameplay this playtest.

[dull thorn]

Has there already been a request for character creation? Not sure how complex that is, but it would do heaps for inclusion!

[idle vigil]

It is spoken about but everything in suggestions gets insta downvoted by rangers with no second thought its been spoken about a lot since last playtest

[winged pulsar]

@paper light I'm not arguing that the ranger isn't busted damage wise ( and that's fine I think classes should be lethal) I just think that popping stealth constantly and resetting an ambush proc, with potential purple weapons hitting a single hit of 100 would be too much, rogues would be the only melee then at that point, we have shitty spacing/have to get in close but with that damage it would be like a stealthing bers constantly lol

[idle vigil]

Have you seen the wizards one shotting people with rondels its kind of funny tbh

[winged pulsar]

@idle vigil Yeah, as I have said, wizard is a better rogue right now than rogues, all these reasons are why I think rogue needs to have no walk counter on stealth

[paper light]

Yep, I started today by arguing that Wizards are better Rogues currently. People got wound up.

Comparing purple dagger headshots to purple headshots with a long bow, it's just as bad. Ranger damage is "accepted" at this point since they haven't nerfed it into the ground so even if you could complete 1 restealth/sec it would be no worse than the ranger triple shot.

[idle vigil]

ranger hasnt been balanced for the longest time(it was unfair since the 2nd playtest) in any sort of way from pve to pvp the addition of triple tap last playtest really was stupid

[frosty bay]

Can we really band together on the idea of removing the zone or at least significantly slowing it? A timer is enough. You can concentrate play around extract portals.

[latent radish]

why ppl downvoting arachnophobia mode lmao

[winged pulsar]

because it's a stupid suggestion in a dungeon crawling game with spiders, if you can't handle seeing fake video game spiders this is not a game for you

[rustic cairn]

I have a friend who is actually terrified of spiders irl and he doesn't complain lol

[frosty bay]

I am also terrified of spiders but in game doesnt trigger it. What triggers it is elite spiders that are hard to hit that have an endless spawn. Without a cleric it's madness.

[latent radish]

its not a hard change to make at all and it would help people with arachnophobia

there are no downsides

[paper light]

I have rangerphobia. Can we change their model to saftey cone orange so I can avoid them?

[frosty bay]

Generating new assets for what people would consider an irrational fear is asking a lot for an early alpha game. Whose gonna pay for it? Your wellbeing is your own responsibility. Fears can be overcome. You don't have to just be a victim.

[rustic cairn]

if you make it so fighters cant use regular bows so I dont have to fight 2 full stacked fighters with bows + a ranger - deal @paper light

[winged pulsar]

It's extremely silly for devs to try to accommodate irrational fears of video game creatures which are expected to be within said game, there are people who have irrational fears of just about everything, they don't need to put man power into making modes for that type of stuff, was the same with grounded, blew my mind that they made an arachnophobia mode for that, makes 0 sense, who plays a game about giant bugs and can't handle giant bugs lmao waste of dev time

[sudden willow]

@granite plinth they do work, you just have to aim them, its not hard once you get the hang of it

[frosty bay]

100% this. Stop asking the world to cater to you.

[rustic cairn]

I got hard downvoted but I think fighters having anything but crossbows is silly considering how heavily armored they are lol whats the counter there? three rangers? lol (Inb4fighterdownvotes)

[sudden willow]

im not a fighter lmfao, it just defeats the purpose of the all purpose class that can use a wide variety of weapons, they already get -20% damage for using weapons that they usually dont have access to (if you dont think 20% is very impactful then i will have to assume you failed maths)

[rustic cairn]

you say that like its impactful lol

[paper light]

fighters die fast to haste+invis behind then a single channeled point blank magic missile. Then a reinvis cause I'm a roguezard

[rustic cairn]

so your play is pick wizard - invis and haste yourself get in behind them and channel magic missile? heard lol k

[unreal flame]

@terse pond portal side is static you can tell which side it comes from with the tombstone

[paper light]

I was actually just driving the previous point home. The real answer is that I just shoot them in the face with a longbow

[sudden willow]

im also not a wizard player, fighters are not hard to kill and also if you care to become a bit better with the movement becoming decent at dodging rangers arrows is also not hard.

ur incredibly whiny over something that is obviously just a skill issue.

[loud zinc]

LF1M party 311, can't invite

[rustic cairn]

Skill issue? same could be said for you just never fighting good fighter players rofl?

[sudden willow]

surely its the fact that i have never fought a good fighter and its not that you suck, surely.

im not the one complaining here lil bro

when did i complain, what

[rustic cairn]

I mean you cried about wizards and rangers sooo I think you are good joke though see you in the funny pages Mr ranger player himself lol

[terse pond]

Newer player, but it would still be helpful for those good getaways

[sudden willow]

i never complained and im not a ranger or a fighter at all 😭 i legit only play rogue, why are you saying that i complain when i havent at all 😭

[unreal flame]

I believe it's always the flat side of the tombstone btw

[rustic cairn]

Me saying them having full armor and a bow doesn't mean I have a skill gap problem rofl I am stating they are ridiculously tanky - hit hard - have a speed burst - have a heal and have a bow and dwarf any melee class lol

[idle vigil]

Their full armour gives them fuck all protection in the first place most good fighters dont even run full plate because of how slow it makes you

[sudden willow]

if you dwarf everyone else then u should not be having this issue, use cover, use traps, hit your shots, it legit is not that hard, stop crying PLS.

[paper light]

I think I want to amend my previous statement on the number of ways that Hide has restrictions applied to it. Previously I said 3, but in fact I think it's 6 way restricted: CD, steps, duration, move speed (objectively worse than invis), paying the audio penalty during the cloaking animation (no better than invis/pots), paying the audio penalty while walking (no better than invis)

[rustic cairn]

Why are you assuming I play ranger LMAO ? Im not crying the dude whining about wizards being the op version of a rogue was "crying" lol

[sudden willow]

dude that wasnt me, i dont have a problem with any class , im chilling, IDC what class u play but you clearly have some kind of skillgap cause ur crying here lil bro

[rustic cairn]

K enjoy your chat bravado muting and moving on lol

[vernal basalt]

god this community is full of elitist already

[idle vigil]

Im waiting to see what the devs will do to make melee stronger in pve

[sudden willow]

noooooo he blocked me, fkkkkk...... nooo. 😢

[mellow flax]

I really wish I didn't have to spend 60% of the game running from the circle.

[paper light]

You don't like the 4 red archers in B3 that I don't think you can even get to in melee?

[idle vigil]

Im pretty sure last playtest you were able to i have no clue why they would change that room is a crime ngl

[cyan thorn]

Would love to be able to spend / receive more then 1250g on an item.

[normal lava]

No, cause you just bring one in your inventory. It's really easy to quickswap.

[granite plinth]

Drinking so many pots at a time should give you a debuff

[mortal plank]

The magic shield potion should be an outline on the current character model, not an oval shaped shield, imo

[craggy gate]

there's absolutely nothing worth that much gold

[cyan thorn]

Something is only worth what someone will pay for it. I have had a few instances for it.

[lilac sparrow]

LVL 10 Cleric LFG

[craggy gate]

not at all the right channel champ

[silk lantern]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[granite plinth]

either a dodge with cooldown, or nerfing how good the skeletons are at tracking, those melee skeletons track like crazy and lunge forwards stupidly far, they are the most annoying thing in the game

[cursive stream]

@stoic mist there already is n audio que for lock picking skill check

[stoic mist]

Is there? I've picked so many chests as rogue never noticed it

[eager holly]

for the love of god plz make the player health frames moveable or in the somewhere near the middle so i can actually see my health bro the amount of times i die becuz im not looking at my health like cmon devs do better

[loud holly]

add proximity chattttttttttt

[craggy gate]

bro if you're still dying to melee skeletons....

[cloud forum]

rofl

[granite plinth]

its too inconsistent, I main barb, and no matter how much I side step or backstep, im constantly getting hit

[waxen egret]

I feel like the gold I pick up should automatically go to my stash

[vast tide]

Having to store gold in the first place is stupid imo. Why don't we have a bank 😭

[edgy ravine]

Make it fit

[vast tide]

I have my entire rogue inventory only gold bags, in every single slot. It just punishes players for making money and puts a cap on money specifically for no apparent reason.

[edgy ravine]

Skill issue

[pale mason]

give someone the gift of christmas with an inv full of gold in the dungeon

[prisma lynx]

Out of curiosity what are people's thoughts on the powerfulness of the ranger class?

[faint comet]

wizard fireballs need to have a way longer cooldown or something I get back to back spammed with fireballs cant exactly do anything especially if they have a teammate and you cant rush

[dawn verge]

dodge them until they run out

[bitter stratus]

Dont put yourself in a situation where they have clear line of sight on you. Fireballs hit shit enroute pretty regularly and any kind of LOS blocking works in your favor

[faint comet]

not that easy can only dodge so much in the tight corners of most of the rooms

[winter abyss]

buff wizard

[edgy ravine]

Buff Rangers

[vernal basalt]

buff spiders

[vast tide]

Let's do both and make ranger spiders

[rigid galleon]

the PVE is too easy. Everything should be 3 times stronger.

[crude flame]

Rangers are good, but the way they aim is way different in this game. you have to lead on your shot way more than youd anticipate and it can throw you off, its almost slower than skyrims which I found pretty difficult. However, if you have good aim, everybody without a ranged weapon is gimped against you because its hard to approach someone the way it is now. I feel this game could benefit from a flat movement speed to everyone so far, maybe even have a sort of in-actionable run which is slightly faster. Ranger has his purpose though, and he serves it very, very well.

[keen peak]

can you imagine trying to kill a skeleton with a starter dagger lol, 36 hits for a cracked emerald

[winged pulsar]

@rigid galleon Pve HP values are overtuned, but that is likely due to this being floor 2 and we start with greys

@prisma lynx Ranger is the #1 class in this game

[fierce hemlock]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS82MCyJc/

A beautiful example of the true speed of swords.

[vernal basalt]

ahhh yes the good old flail about and deal zero damage to someone with armor very nice

[fierce hemlock]

Ahh yes, the good old no understanding of swords. Very nice.

Is this better for you?

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS82MUHT6/

[vernal basalt]

those sheetmats arent hard to cut for one second it's a stick in a hole with no dirt around it I could do that with my fucking feet LMAO

[fierce hemlock]

Many say that and many are proven absolutely wrong.

Please post your demonstration whenever you're ready though.

[vernal basalt]

it's -20 out I aint digging a fucking hole and your crappy videos didn't prove me wrong so idk wtf you're smoking but can I have some?

[fierce hemlock]

Prove you wrong, you never made a point.

But I see you have no evidence to support your claim.

"what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

[vernal basalt]

your "evidence" wasn't proof just some idiot flailing about with a sword doing nothing :) I'm gonna go back to the other chat cause it's funny

[fierce hemlock]

Historical fencing instructor = Idiot flailing about with a sword.

Tell me you understand nothing about use of swords without telling me you understand nothing about use of swords.

"revert fighter swift perk buff"

Revert to what?

[edgy ravine]

We here at the council demand your 50 page essay on how weapons must be 100% accurate and how that just swinging a sword at a pole is completely accurate for sword fighting without the pole fighting back. Chop chop

[ember nova]

back to 10% i think

[fierce hemlock]

Ahhhh.

Ew gross, no.

[normal obsidian]

please add bows to Nicholas. unless im super unlucky and havent seen 1 in my 37 hours

[pure maple]

@hot badger you can already kick players, in the main screen where y'all are around the table hit the player list on the bottom right, you'll see it on the left in that menu

[hot badger]

Oh derp, thank you!

[austere vector]

@hot badger Hey you can kick afks from the invite window on left is player list and you can right click

[hot badger]

thanks someone told me 🙂

[hidden rampart]

Allow whispering, add a context menu to players sitting at the table
#d-and-d-suggestions message

[grim nacelle]

Infinite arrox on ranger isn't fair maybe 20 and they start with a mele weapon ?

[fierce hemlock]

Infinite arrow is fine.

[ivory patio]

Cleric attack speed is fine, you just need to get better cleric weapons. The change from your starter 26 to a new 30 damage flail is great. That and spam your spells, you can stack +10 damage, strength and extra undead damage to just mulch the monsters, and in the begining if you are having trouble use the AOE 100 undead damage perk, it's great

[fierce hemlock]

I'm confused by all the skele archer god aim comments. I very rarely get hit by skele archers.

[ocean hearth]

why does the trade chat scroll so fast

[tribal yacht]

too many people posting at once

[ocean hearth]

yea no shit lol, should be rate limited

[edgy kayak]

Please fix enemy mobs auto targeting you with aim bots after going invis. As rogue I have gone invis and moved and still been headshot by archers/mages that just keep targeting me after I invis.

[ivory patio]

for people downvoting my suggestion to make spawn rooms further apart so that a 3 man squad can't start hitting me within the first 30 seconds of the game, why? Apart from you like rolling up on people early?

[edgy kayak]

I don't think it's to big of sn issues. I usually try to leave the starting area quickly and I play solo a lot.

[rustic cairn]

I play solo all the time just dont wait around for them they aren't that close lol

[cinder fern]

I wish we had guilds/crews I think it be awesome if they added that stuff to the game. Maybe even a hall just for guildies to show off their loot

[edgy kayak]

I would love a guild system in the game

[plain hill]

i think that some sort of level or gear gap should be in place so that a level 1 isnt going againts a lvl 20 and getting boddied there should also be like a solo duo and trio mode so its not a solo going againts a trio

[cinder fern]

the levels actually from what i can tell give you nothing as far as stats just more perk slots
as for the modes, again that goes against the concept of "dive into a unforgiving dungeon with friends" the game advertises exclusively

[plain hill]

yeah but i said it because they are prob going to add a lvl check to higher tier weapons making it where you have to be a certain lvl before you equip a weapon atleast thats what im guessing

[cinder fern]

when the game fully launches they will have 3 different levels for the game, anyone with high tier gear will likely be on the hell level where fresh spawns will be on the newbie level

[edgy ravine]

@iron wigeon Use alt while dragging smthn to split

[sharp belfry]

I would suggest releasing the Dark and Darker font to the public for free for content creators, or have they done it already

[agile fern]

@pastel sable why do you think the suggestion about Invis for wiz is a bad idea?

[undone seal]

lol you clearly dont know pvp type people those high tier gear people will all be on lvl 1 ganking people more than on lvl 3

[vital heath]

@safe mist Clerics have a skill to rez at 25% life with no life cost to them they can also heal you and the person rezing you should bring your gear with them so you can put it back on. If you dont have a cleric just bring more meds personally i bring 6 15 health bandages a survival kit and a campfire with me hope this helps

[loud blade]

after getting to roughly level 10+ with all the classes I would like to suggest if possible for any of this a ping system on items etc for teammates, certain skills working as intended ie: aggro skill on fighter is hot garbage. wizard having some sort of change to make it less prone to friendly fire especially with randoms they can't commune with if they don't have friends. shields not blocking some arrows up close, some melee hits not being blocked (pretty sure I was looking at them but guess I can't be 100%). using buff spells on teammates being easier to lock on as it feels like you have to have pinpoint accuracy. and not being able to cast protection on enemies lmao which is hilarious but awful if by accident. I'm loving this game though and would like to see full release turn out

[agile fern]

as a caster main in every game I play, I think the casters should have these consequences for accidentally hitting the wrong target w their spell

[loud blade]

tell that to the cleric I saw try to save his teammate and he cast protection on the demon dog that killed him lol

[agile fern]

lmao
rip cleric & mate; that's my favorite downside to this type of casting

[edgy ravine]

@agile fern Been protected like 3 times by getting in between Clerics and those they try to help in fights. Always big fun

[agile fern]

this is lovely; this is also the reason you need the ability to communicate effortlessly with your teammates (generally voice chat)

[novel lava]

why are the lockpick not buyable?

[edgy ravine]

Lock picks should be buyable but at least it gives more need for Rogues or the trade hub

[trim glen]

will there be a solo, duo and trio que added in future, would be nice to not have to go against a full team as a solo

[granite plinth]

no

[upbeat hollow]

lockpicks should be buyable
you get one most of the time but thats not enough since they break when you don't open the chest

alternativly they should just not make the lockpick break and just reset timer if you failed pick, it still consumes lockpick to open a chest tho

[upper light]

I want to be able to see my teammates on the map.

[final oxide]

Just asking whether someone has suggested random party matching? so instead of sending individual invites
the game just automatically matches you with other people looking to party with randoms

[faint rampart]

can you buy items in bulks? i.e. potions?

[civic reef]

Is there any place to make suggestions for the discord not for the game?

There is a role assignment Chanel on this server but they still use @ everyone for announcements instead of a special role that you choose to join

[boreal pollen]

Could we get it were Wizards can use Kris daggers too

[burnt arch]

I have hope for team chat/team finder/proximity chat

[boreal pollen]

Same

[gritty pollen]

Arrow and Bolts reload Bug, after reloading no ammo. please FIX.

[elfin vigil]

It's not nice , it's part of the game and it makes it so good when you win 1V3 , do you really want to remove that feeling ?

1V3 ing is one of the best feeling in this game , usually you need to outsmart your oponnent , trick them , that's literally the most rewarding part of the game.

[indigo niche]

can we make it so the zone is a red outline or somethign on the screen and doesnt just screw your vision completely? tired of dying stuck on spiders becaue i cant see

[zealous fern]

^ can we get rid of zone entirely? 🤨
.
Tired of Battle royal games seeping into every game genre, feel like a loot extract would be fine without a zone closing in.

[vital mason]

You can see a bit more with torches. It'd be too easy without the dark

[vital mason]

Zone encourages PVP. A lot of people would just play like rats and it'd probably take a lot of the PvP out of the game

[hollow shadow]

why do people vote againt my anti cheese out of range of mobs suggestion. r u mice?

[charred cobalt]

Just because a game adds solo/duo queue doesn't mean you won't have the choice to still queue against trios, if you enjoy losing nearly all of your games be my guest but just accept that other people would like to play the game with fair odds.

[granite plinth]

@granite plinth Bring a 2H, they melt rogues like butter. Longsword if u r a fighter.

more support for crossbows? a lot of the archer skills dont work with crossbows, and only one of the two types let you move while reloading

[granite plinth]

Ok but u can very easily avoid trios so they arent really a problem. Unless u run into them intentionally.

[granite plinth]

I mean yeah true but at the same time its still very strong that you can just run rouge with no armor and just 2 tap most people

[granite plinth]

I'd argue one reason to support duo and solo queue, the game has the playerbase to support those ques, the other day this game had over 15k people on in the community hub

[glass pumice]

I think doing squads and solo is fine you can work some magic with 2 people

[granite plinth]

only ONE ranger skill affects crossbows andthats true shot, the others dont work with crossbows at all, you cant even activate them(aside from your ranger cookies)

[granite plinth]

Yeah but theres not much reason to

[granite plinth]

And adding them to the game doesnt hurt you playing or prevent you from playing, you can just stay into trio queue without an issue cause the game has more than enough players to support all three game modes

[charred cobalt]

There's dozens, you're just unable to accept any of them because you enjoy having a feeling.

[granite plinth]

I wont be able tho because im a solo

then goto solo queue, if you're a solo complaining about solo queue, are you trolling? you'd still be able to triple queue as a solo, same with duo, or since you claim youre a solo, stay in solo queue

[granite plinth]

If im still able queue for trio then what even is the point of the separate queues

To let people who want to be on an even playing field without getting ganked by a bigger team able to play only with other solo players, and it lets people who like the challenge of killing squads alone, lets them be by themselves in trio

[wicked tree]

Well i put up my second suggestion :)

[granite plinth]

But u will be finding trios in solo queue too if ppl can choose whichever they want despite their numbers. Also i dont want to take on trios. Thats probably why ppl keep complaining, coz they keep running into them for some reason. ( I have yet to be able to take on trios, mostly because i avoid them )

[granite plinth]

its very unlikely that people would do that every single round, the game isnt so small that that would happen during peak hours, people would get scrambled, and you could report players for teaming up in solo or duo with teams that are not their own, there are ways to have multiple queues and have it work

[frosty bay]

Please get this more visibility. (Self cast) #d-and-d-suggestions message

[granite plinth]

Well trios love murdering solos so i doubt they will not find a solo queue tempting. N if thats a feature idk why it would be against the rules. And the world doesnt revolve around both of us. So it doesnt really matter if i prefer mixed queue or if u prefer separate queues. It depends on the majority and the devs.

You are aware that solo queue only lets one person in at a time right? trios wouldnt be allowed to solo queeue, good luck getting into the same game as your friends, you'd get scrambled up, not have the same spawns even if you did get into the same lobby.

[limber bridge]

Yeah. Hence "solo"

[wicked tree]

#d-and-d-suggestions message oil latern in the off hand with a main hand weapon

[frosty bay]

1v3 really isnt that bad if you play it right. Dont over commit

[granite plinth]

Yes but u said i could still join trios as a solo so it should go all ways. Which would not be any different

[wicked tree]

#d-and-d-suggestions message not my suggestion but i want people to be able to see it i love this suggestion about the swarm rather then the ring

[granite plinth]

And as i said before im a solo most of the time. The most ppl i have had in my lobby is two ppl. And my friend rarely really plays. But if u still think im a trio or something, then idk what to tell u

I never considered you a trio player, the whole time I said you are a solo complaining about solo being a thing, you obviously arent the type of player who enjoys going up against a team of three when you're by yourself, you're going around in circles and saying the same things over and over while im arguing why the other game modes would make sense and benefit the game, how does only having trio benefit the game aside form simply making it simpler and condensing the already large player base

[granite plinth]

Not really complaining but if u wanna put it that way then ok. I dont see why i need to because im pretty sure most ppl prefer the state the game is currently in. U r the one that wants a change to the current game, im just trying to say why that would suck. And not everyone likes that idea but u r too self important that u want ppl to agree with u and make ur dream come true.

[granite plinth]

And yet you still refuse to give reasons as to why trio only would benefit the game, and instead are assuming all people fee lthe same as you do, speaking for everyone here

[granite plinth]

No i dont assume anything. I look at suggestions and the majority doesnt want a separate queue. :))

[paper musk]

Overruled. I want a separate queue therefore your logic doesn't check out.

[granite plinth]

U r one person. #1048762118255673428 to change my mind. Go ask if ppl want solos, duos and trios as separate queues.

[paper musk]

You've been a part of this server for 6 days. You don't have enough experience playing to know what you are talking about or be able to contribute meaningful suggestions yet. Go play

[granite plinth]

Well if 50 hours and half inventory full of gold purses isnt enough then idk what is. I dont see how u can correlate the date i joined the discord server and the amount of hours i have played. Mind you not everyone uses discord too so that doesnt really make any sense. Also #1048762118255673428 .

You still failed to give reasons why trio only benefits the game, saying everyonee prefers trio only is assuming everyone thinks like you

Another thing i wanna say is i also have experiences with trios that were quite annoying but those were exceptions and some were my fault. They were completely avoidable mistakes on my part so i cant complain much.

@granite plinth like i said #1048762118255673428 , ppl suggested it before but the majority says no. That too, i have said. Yet u still say im assuming.

More diverse gameplay, you have to deal with solos, duos and trios in different ways. And use your brain to think before you even start engaging any of the three group types. Instead of dull gameplay where its all about rushing in and dying.

[glad orchid]

@signal vine 5 arrows instead of 4 is massive in this game, it could be a game changer, and how armor scales with higher levels of play a fighter with more resistance to projectiles and with 150 hp would be very unfun to play against, fighters are already one of the best classes to play, In my opinion they are in a good spot (and my only level 20 is a fighter so...) and in solo play its the best class for sure, when a cleric is at your side healing you, a ranger would have to reload at least once to kill you if they don't miss any shot, and at that time you would be on top of them already

[wicked tree]

#d-and-d-suggestions message increased player collision hitboxes to prevent glitching behind shield hitboxes

[signal vine]

I agree with what your saying, Fighter was my favorite since the first playtest. My only issue is with ranged players or players who are able to hit and run because the fighter cannot chase unless you get high tier armor with low movement speed penalties & the sprint perk in this playtest. I think it would be fair to have the extra health at the cost of the horrible movement speed. Would certainly make the fighter a better tank than a killer. If we are making it a 2v2 fighter and cleric vs example 2 rangers i believe the rangers would win 80% of the time given rng on location. Rangers also have bear traps that help with being rushed slowly by a fighter.

[grave patio]

can we remove the passive on rouge to take 10 steps and just give it to them I mean mages game a movement buff while being invisible and a rogue needs to do it while crouched? I mean its a given rogues need it out of 4 passives everyone needs to take it or a rogue is useless. considering most people 2 shot rogues even if the rogue is geared to the tits and none of us are going to go invis and sit still or at least make it part of the passive tree that will be put into the game later

[wicked tree]

ill agree that 10 steps should be baseline but the pure damage on the dot they can deal needs to go

[mild oak]

I believe an invis that lets you move around but makes your own footsteps a little louder wouldn't be bad especielly for a rouge that has quieter footsteps so it will just be normal footstep sound when invis

[granite plinth]

Do rogues lose invis if they drink potions?

[hot token]

Agreed. I mainly play as a Cleric with a Barbarian friend of mine, and it feels like the only way you can ever win against a Wizard/Ranger is to pin them against the ring (which to be fair works against all classes), or have a wizard/ranger yourself. They can just kite us for eternity, and they already do an absurd amount of damage with fireball. I mostly avoid ranged players now. They do more damage than me, they have more utility than me, they outdamage my healing, they're faster than me, and can shoot me even further than the range of my healing spells are.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/zsgcai/reduce_the_damage_of_fireball_or_give_us_potions/
This post on the sub right now already shows that a mid range Wizard can literally one shot a mid-range fighter with a prot potion on him. Playing melee feels very frustrating right now unfortunately.

[undone jay]

they don't no

[granite plinth]

Oh wow

[sour otter]

SOOOOOOO i just want to suggest a quality of life thing, can we PLZ get an option to buy or sell multiple items at once I.E. Bandages/potions/silver coins

[wicked tree]

already in the suggestion list

[granite plinth]

Thoughts on armor piercing for crossbows? And tweak the dmg for all the bows to balance them all? Idm if ppl disagree, not a big deal. Also, my reason for that is for interesting differences and historical accuracy. 🥲

[hallow anvil]

I think armor piercing on crossbows could be a great idea, but keep in mind i dont think crossbows were ever intended to be a primary weapon, im pretty sure they were meant as an opening shot, then switching to primary, hence the extreme load times, and the fact that even a wizard can use one.

If they were to apply additional armor piercing, i would expect the damage to drop/stay the same. Wouldn't want to misbalance them, (im all for historical accuracy, but it needs to be done in a way to compliment the game, skeletons and wraiths arent exactly historically accurate either)

However, adjusting the damage on all bows seems like a thing that has to be done, considering even the rotted recurve bow does more damage than most blue survival bows, feels unuseable.

[granite plinth]

Hmm, maybe it can be balanced if its dmg is tweaked along with other bows? Idk. Just an idea. But yeah, kinda hard to balance them.
Also a wizard with a crossbow is a funny image.
Crossbow Gandalf

[lament valve]

#d-and-d-suggestions message I disagree, I think there should be a High Roller Dungeon, this is where the more experienced and higher level players will spend most of their time, allowing newer players to learn in the casual dungeons, and the sweaty people (like myself) will face other sweatys in high roller. It will eventually kill the player base like Mordhau if the casual players don't have an environment to learn

this is suggestion discussion chat

[civic agate]

Crossbows are not meta so it would be fine to give them this buff. as it is impossible to use them for PvE and PvP is only slightly better.

And to respond to the person that said that there are only for opening shot you are wasting a weapon slot or at least six inventory space for an chance to do some extra damage.

[trim basin]

YA LIKE the maze, and spear traps in dungeons? that shit is ass

[granite plinth]

they would need a very slight damage nerf if you gave them armor piercing, that would put them into the one shot headshot range, and although I do genuinely love sniping, I dont think that would be good for this game (also, you can get armor pen on trinkets, which would help crossbows)

[granite plinth]

No its a nightmare. Whats even worse is the room next to it. I keep saying the same thing lol. Feel like an NPC.

[fringe inlet]

I have one question about the aggro in game :

1. you stand with one fighter+pavise in front on a door vs Wraith (no damage, just bodyaggro the wraith/other)
2. your archer/bow just get the aggro on the wraith and hit behind
3. ez kill, wraith on archer's aggro, wraith can't reach the archer

So the question is, is there some reset on the aggro on dev pespective?

[rotund violet]

AuctionHouse/Flea market/Actually good gear from vendors <--- When?

[trim basin]

i made a suggestion to remove the maze and people downvoting it, like wtf i didnt know players actually like that terrible maze design

[civic agate]

most bows can one shot wizard to the head, and rogues barely survive. Which is fine as they are fast little shit that moves out the way most of my projectiles.

The crossbow is ass because there is no way to follow up on a missed attack besides getting another weapon out. and praying that works make use very situational to the point of being useless to have

[sudden raven]

[korea] I think that Item name needs to be written in English/other languages.
it's hard to know the English name of the equipment

[granite plinth]

gonna say skill issue, the reload speed perk on the normal cross bow, not the wind one, makes reload fine from long range, and the normal crossbow lets you move while reloading, I found it very easy to use the normal crossbow long range then swap to another weapon for close range, my only issue is the bigger wind crossbow which as it is right now needs a buff or to be removed

[thick swallow]

why is mage still unnerfed, that invis thing must be changed, its so fucking OP

[safe quarry]

I believe there should be a high roller dungeon but one that is skill based. Like most of the people on the leaderboard would have to seriously tank their standing permanently just to be griefers. Granted some would do that but not all. And base skill off of like the last 15-20 matches so anyone that wants to be on the leaderboards, has to maintain it. I could do high roller but I’m more focused on play testing all aspects, including what kind of damage I receive so I can accurately give good video and commentary of what is and is not working for the devs. Thus I do a lot of solo when my friends are busy.

[civic agate]

The normal bows are just better than all the crossbows right now. There are no skill issues. The normal crossbow well usable, under perform compared to the Bows. I probably play a bit more with them but I remain unconvinced of their effectiveness.

[safe quarry]

#d-and-d-suggestions message Or at least have a guaranteed healing or support item wether it be potions or bandages or a possible campfire. That’s what I actually hope to get out of locked chests but never do.

[calm orbit]

"Monster AI has been made a little bit smarter." i hope its not the end of bugging monsters

[frail plume]

Please keep the game as it is currently, no pay to win aspects are needed, keep everything bought simply as cosmetic, I know I am willing to pay for the game, or pay for the cosmetics as long as it means their is no pay to win weapons or anything. Whales (People who spend absurd money on in game stats and gear) ruin games, no need for the hustle and grind that makes it fun, and people who can't do the same lose the experience as they're just being abused by the whales

[real basin]

Change spiders to Rats will by more climatic

[crisp kernel]

If you are going to add proximity chat please ensure you give us the option to turn it off completely as well please

[earnest swallow]

its ur problem not playing with friends its ur problem having low gear. change it by playing the game and beeing smart . thats survival as all games like rust ark dayz tarkov etc doing.

[simple zenith]

not all people can play with friend's maybe they have other tastes in game's and in rust/ark/tarkov you have a giant map where you can hide or run from people that have bigger gear or party member's while in d&d you have a prety locked up map where if you even lose a single moment to open a door/gate/secret pasage you lost all the advantage you had

[outer raven]

Non-english communities.

[tidal zephyr]

BR circle has no place in this type of game IMO

[earnest swallow]

absolute true , but as doing it like me going in ur local language channels and look there for players 🙂 u can ind new friends who actually paly these game or just join some casual groups 🙂 ofc u can be backstabbed but also find new friends 🙂

[wicked tree]

hold up churp ill link you too a suggestion that had huge traction about that

[wicked tree]

#d-and-d-suggestions message best rework suggestion ive seen

[crystal hare]

1: Optional Proximity Chat
2: Bandages need a Buff
3: Weapon Level Requirements
4: Dungeon Rank should be calculated into matchmaking (definitely wont happen till much closer or post full release tbh)
5: Small Campfire Buff
6: Improved merchants (buy up to 1 stack of an item such as bandages and potions that instantly restock after you buy one)

[earnest swallow]

these is no suggestion channel. its fior discussing it so :
1 is already planned.
2 bandage ares slighty shit and could need a bit more hp restore or cheaper priuce cpompared to drinks
3 nope.
4 nope. wont ever happen maybe an extra ranked mode but in normal dungeon will always face who ever wanna joining
5 for what ? its already strong enough
6 already planed also like task´s questlines etc 🙂

[hallow anvil]

Thats actually an incredible suggestion, probably doable too since the map is made up of building blocks

[crisp kernel]

Its weird because someone suggested that again basically today and got downvoted lol #d-and-d-suggestions message

[hallow anvil]

Mob mentalitys a hell of a drug

[wicked tree]

true but also i feel the first one explained it in a way that was alot easier to mentally imagine it playing out in game thus people are more likely to agree with it

[crisp kernel]

It is crazy like how you can ask the same question and get two different answers. I hope they repoll anything they actually take from the polls through like an official announcement just in case lol

[wicked tree]

dont worry the devs have some way to filter things

[crisp kernel]

Isn't that suggestion regarding barbarian breaking barrels in one hit related to the actual damage of your weapon? I thought battle axe and stuff one hit barrels

[wicked tree]

correct but it is kinda silly you can break chests and doors but not pots and barrels in 1 hit XD

[wise kelp]

I really Hope proximity vocal chat doesn't make it to the game, it would be funny for a while but totally ruin this game's atmosphere

[crisp kernel]

Wait who doesn't break pots in one hit? Even my cleric breaks pots in one hit

[plain hill]

proximity chat would help the game because not only would it make it funner but it would also probably be modified into prox chat AND party chat so you dont have to go into discord

[dire hull]

Or at least make the proximity like 1 m radius or less

[wicked tree]

maybe blunt and slashing damage has different modifers against pots and boxes

[plain hill]

i agree i think prox chat should be a less range like only when you can hear their footsteps or when its like a 5-10meter range so its not you can hear someone from three rooms down and also they should make it like where the prox chat is realistic and it echos throughout the room

[crisp kernel]

I am not against other people having or using it if I am honest, I just really want to make sure I can turn it off completely as I personally hate it and find it detracts from the feel or style of some games like this having some nerd on the other side of a wall shouting "bro, let me be ur fam boi I'm da numba one playa pimp daddy" etc. through it

[wise kelp]

Everybody use a tierce vocal application for party chat but I can understand if we get party fillers, but proximity vocal chat to enemys ? Eh I can't wait to get chased by a Barbarian who just put Hatsune Miku's song on mic

[plain hill]

ok so everyone knows that tarkov is like a twin to dark and darker and everyone knows that prox chat has make tarkov fun you see what im getting at here

[dire hull]

I was thinking full volume at half a meter and then the volume diminishes alot as the space increases like it would in reality. 5meters and you can't hear them

[crisp kernel]

"everyone knows"

[wise kelp]

It goes exactly back to my point anyways, and goofy isn't Always funny

[prime turtle]

아이템 여러개 사는 기능 너무 필요합니다!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[plain hill]

@wise kelp @crisp kernel also you guys do know there is like 30 people who want it compared to like 10 who dont and thats not including the 5000 people who dont go to d-and-d discusions and just because you guys wanna be sweaty and not just have fun for once doesnt mean everyone else has to be sweaty right?

[crisp kernel]

I guess there are only 40 people playing this game in total so we don't need to worry... you also just went and completely ignored what I said. Sure I love watchig a funny stimpy YouTube video for like 5 mins while I take a shit but when I am actually playing I would want the option to turn it off completely so I don't have to listen to children chat bots spewing meme slang at me while I dungeon crawl

[quasi merlin]

How would you argue prox chat isnt good for the game? It creates interesting player driven interactions and emergent gameplay?

[hallow anvil]

So thats not at all how it played out. The reason epic was fined was because the default setting is open mic, all the time. Which is 100% against the privacy act, most game development studios understand this rule, and work towards respecting it. The way these games with open mic typically will run, is the option to opt into public chat, typically, your voice is limited to your party, or is turned off by default. Most game development studios understood that players while not wanting to use their own mic, still wanted to hear other players speaking to them. So they implemented a default push to talk rule where you were automatically opted into the proximity chat, but we're not assumed consent on voice input, meaning players actually had to understand what button to press to talk to others, thus implementing a way to consent before speaking. Fortnite disregarded those rules, and had open mic by default, and opt-in to proximity chat by default. Hence why they got fined

[crisp kernel]

Using the word interesting loosely here

[plain hill]

can you prove that that happened i looked it up and i couldnt find anything about that also im pretty sure there is going to be an option to turn voice chat off and report players for toxicity and bad behavior

[quasi merlin]

community health is an iffy one at best, prox chat isnt all negative. Just because negative interactions can happen, doesn't mean it shouldn't be added at all. You could argue that there shouldn't be a text based chat because negative interactions could occur there as well? I understand if legal reasons come into play, then they have to do what they must.

[plain hill]

simple @hallow anvil explained the whole thing so you kinda pulled that out of your ___ twice now

[hallow anvil]

If you actually read that document and it's entirety, you would understand that The reason they were find was because the open mic was on, miners were only able to be targeted because their mike was open all the time, allowing predators to seek them out and make comments. The privacy act is only violated if you yourself have no option to consent to speaking, if your defaults are set to automatically collect data from your microphone, that's when you violated the privacy act. That's why they got fined, not because other people were talking to the minors, but because they deliberately violated the children's privacy act

Please don't surface skim legal documents.

[opaque shore]

Realistically, how many players do you think will be lost when the game is released and f2p players won't pay for it?

[hallow anvil]

And on the topic of proximity chat being deliberately harmful to games, that is incorrect in nearly all cases except for the epic games one, if proximity chat is implemented properly and following all legal obligations. Then It's proven to bring more players to the game, and builds a sense of community

@snow mulch since you mentioned the game development, and I haven't seen you in any of my previous beta testings, what's your name in the industry and what agency do you work for?

@opaque shore probably a lot, a lot of people are here just to test the game and not play it any further, I've seen a lot of people start getting into paid testing this way. It's kind of a catch. Either you make the game free to play and make very little money, unless you deliberately make micro transactions that a lot of people will even leave for, or you make the game paid and lose a lot of your free to play players who aren't really dedicated to your model of game

[opaque shore]

I myself will definitely buy it, but I really would hate to see the game lose tons of players.

[plain hill]

its to make sure your telling the truth and not just lying completly its also known as an argument also just sayin the fact that your not willing to share is kinda sus my man

[crisp kernel]

What does it matter if 800,000 people play the game if you only need 100,000 for it to be constantly active other than money? Is the goal here really to catch them all or to just make a great game that is appreciated like a masterpiece? Reading IronMace mission statement sort of inspired me to hope they are more interested in a great game than making some drivel to be consumed by the brainless masses

[lament phoenix]

i used an axe that did like 50+ damage and still had to hit twice, i think it's tied to weapon type (big weapons take two hits, medium takes 4-6, small takes 6)

[hallow anvil]

My tag being wizard is probably due to the fact that I'm here to do the same thing you are? Anyone can get one by going to the roll assign lol.

I don't appreciate people saying they work in the industry when they don't, takes a lot of work to get into. It makes it sound like it's super easy. Thus, bringing non-committed members to agencies that are dedicated to commitment.

@snow mulch
At this point, I'm assuming you're just fluffing yourself up to try and back up your arguments, which have both been disproven.

If you would like to discuss this matter further, please private message me. A debate like this is no business in general chats

[plain hill]

bros playing fornite oh and btw if any of you thought i actually cared i just want to say i really dont this is just a really funny situation

[hallow anvil]

No sense pushing Further, if he wants to backup a statements about being a game development tester, then he can reach out to me to identify himself since he seems so hesitant on doing it in a public chat, rightfully so. However @snow mulch if you'd like to engage in civil discussion, how do you feel about the proposed zone changes that we were discussing prior to this?

[dreamy wharf]

all these people wanting DnD to have combat like other games and not a unique experience aren't real fans.
Some issues with hitboxes/hitdetection/collision, improvements on attack readability in combat such as clearer pvp melee swings as npc swings are easier to read, bow projectiles either being slower so easier to dodge or easier to see (arrowheads with brighter glint) , changes to bad terrain design (being caught on torches, spiders launching players 8+ feet players).

Also more destructible terrain in dungeon and more ways of destroying it, creating half cover etc for melee focused characters to have more defence against ranged attacks.

[crisp kernel]

They referenced text chat in that complaint as well and being matchmade with adults

[plain hill]

im 13 bozo also no offence but like all of you are nerds

[hallow anvil]

@opaque shore agreed, it's always sad to see a game loose players because they're not interested in the actual game itself, just the free price tag.

[crisp kernel]

You are really being a great spokesperson for introducting proximity chat that is going to be interesting and fun... lol. If anything you sort of backed up that we should definitely be allowed to turn it off like I said if it is introduced which is what I was suggesting

[plain hill]

ye i dont actually care i was just trying to tilt people off for fun i did it though

[rose sandal]

Thank you. Someone understand. This game is unique in its own way and fun. I mean shit. I went into a Skeletonmage room yesterday. Thought he didn’t spawn, so went for the spiders that were in there. And all of a sudden. The skeleton mage lit a fireball FROM THE PITCH BLACK CORNER and hit me. Caught me off guard. Didn’t hear me complaining ItS ToO DaRk, or They need to make mobs more seeable. Fuck no, I said Shit, I need to use my torch more and check dark spots more.

[crisp kernel]

Priceless! Well done mate...

[hallow anvil]

This one @snow mulch

[wise kelp]

Just gonna ignore that since you're only point is '' EVERYONE EVERYONE'' anyways

[plain hill]

bro that was like 20 minutes ago its gone so deep we got legal stuff and like nerds like @hallow anvil @snow mulch who be crazy like the fact they care this much is really funny tbh XD

[rose sandal]

Lol well Mr. 13yo, glad you just admitted to trolling in the discord. Straight banable offense admitted to lol. <@&988703997378584596>

[plain hill]

there is a diffrence between bannible and da actuall trolling also trolling is defined by da fact that you are doing the worse trolling all i was doing was tilting nerds of like fides and thats kinda it not really trolling but sure i guess if i get banned i get banned not that big of a deal

[rose sandal]

😂 yup… good luck in life kid

[hallow anvil]

I think the b1 map is supposed to be larger with more players. Im not sure about teams of 4 tho

[blazing vapor]

Take an hour to refresh your head and come back with a positive attitude, actively looking to annoy and anger people isn't something we'll tolerate.

[hallow anvil]

Not seeing a link...

[rose sandal]

@plain hill Cumbo, I’m dropping the situation here, wardens got it from here. But what you did, and admitted to, both fall under rules 1 & 2. You harassed them calling them “nerds” (rules number 2, I.E insult)and then admitted to trolling. (Which is presumed under rules 1, do not intentionally try to cause conflict. Which you admitted to #📜rules

[dreamy wharf]

i thought the devs vision is about balance around 3 man teams? Hope they devs stand firm instead of following bigger games.
if they implement voip or another form of communication (more hand gestures/emotes, optional character voicelines at different volumes like cleric whisper or barb shout) then players may have an easier time befriending others instead of directly pvp.
@rose sandal Same many a time. as a rogue being attacked by that one spider while hiding in darkness is a plan changer. hearing a flying bug aggro while hiding is again a fun experience - light a torch or try to out manuever?
@hallow anvil
makes sense. groups of 6 would steamroll dungeons. i guess with voip in session text comms this becomes more likely (or maybe through other clients like steam chat)
@rose sandal befriending in pre lobby. sounds like a fun moment, hopefully there's more events where 2 groups work together to fight bosses.

[hallow anvil]

Yeah I believe they said that if you organically meet someone and team up, it's allowed. If you team up in discord and try and team up on seperate teams in game. It's not allowed

It's like the difference between stopping a mugging, or mugging Someone, then stopping and saying "I saved you"

[rose sandal]

Befriending will always happen. (Maybe fighting along side shouldn’t happen) but I’ve been added to 2 discords now with some nice people because I spam the surrender emote and crouch up and down because I didn’t want to fight (probably due to almost being dead) or because we were on hell’s floor. Portals were in boss room. And the player agro’d the boss, so I opened portals for us.

[twin wadi]

don't post multiple suggestions in one post when the only voting option is "yes" or "no" to all

[hallow anvil]

I disagree with the cleric statements, I had a cleric 1v3 all of us because he kept it buffing protection and healing himself they can be absolute powerhouses if they have a book as their secondary

[agile fern]

People have gotta stop putting multiple unrelated things in one suggestion

[hallow anvil]

Shields block 100% of damage, if you get hit through a shield it means you didn't block it properly, and you'll have to look all the way up or all the way to a side to block and attack, it's directional blocking which is kind of nice. But you really have to notice where you're about to be hit

[rose sandal]

surprisingly enough. me and my teammates were 3v1 against a wizard. the terrain had a big impact. because we were on a catwalk. but he would invs, run the other way, get distance, fire ball, invs, repeat. i think the wizards speeds buff and invs buff is a little underrated

[hallow anvil]

You know they're incredibly powerful, the problem is wizards have a very steep learning curve, you need to be able to manage pretty much everything about your environment to use them to their full extent

[rose sandal]

Side discussion, I NEED to know of others thoughts. the gold coin purse.. increase the limit.. or stay the same. Because I think it should increase

[quartz oasis]

I don't think gold, once in stash, should take any space IMO. Why do I have to buy items to manage the base currency of the game. I'm already selling items to make space and create gold, now I have to buy more items to put the gold back in?
I get it, maybe it's like for immersion, but Idk. Personally, a little annoying to manage. ESPECIALLY without an auto manage button for stash.

[wise kelp]

I was about to type the same, honestly annoying having to Handle your Stash with 90÷ being gold purse

[rose sandal]

I'm use to the managing, due to tarkov training me. So thats not really the issue. The issue sits in, i have 2.7k gold. almost 5 rows of my bottom inv is taken up. then i have 3 full kits. now my inv has 1/4 left for weapons,potions, etc

[quartz oasis]

Yep, so it could be a dedicated stash tab, like @snow mulch is saying, or could have it like in diablo 2, just a simply amount that's stored in text that you can draw from.
I'm guessing regardless of the size of the gold, it might annoy some people more than others.

[hallow anvil]

There's been a suggestion a few times but like a money vault/ money safe sort of idea, basically the concept is it takes up nine total squares and you can deposit full coin prices into it. Probably hold. I don't know 20 to 30 full coin purses, and you can right click to take one out

Everyone here knows I'm fucking obsessed with Diablo 2 so don't get me started, I would love to have a horadric cube or the gold text mentioned above

[sleek terrace]

i like having limited tabs and storage, it promotes trading and actually buying gear and supplies so that encounters with people are more dangerous than a lot of hording and wealth it adds to the difficulty with the monsters as well.

[wise kelp]

As an old school Diablo player, I would rather have that, keep gold as items for dungeon, transfer it and add to your gold total
But it's not even an important point

[quartz oasis]

True, maybe its their way of soft-nerfing gold, you can ONLY have a maximum of (stash inventory slots * 50 gold) at all times per character like @sleek terrace said

[wise kelp]

Even if it stays that way I wouldnt' mind that much
More importantly is those zombie's fog tracking your ass like crazy, if only that was a '' Élite version only'' thing

[sleek terrace]

Exactly having very limited space will help people actually spend it and gear up for darker dungeons. i love going in naked at times but running into more than 1/2 the dungeon with just naked gear when it takes less than 50 gold to even buy all grey items to at least have stats/bonuses on armor or even a bit more damage it gives it a challenge otherwise a geared barb can fold fresh spawns in 1 swing. i was even suggesting a bank ( GOLD ONLY ) that was tied to all characters.

[dreamy wharf]

@snow mulch find a friend and swap items. but yes the player trade system needs changing. many people suggested an auction house with different channels with enforced item types. player trades should still cost but this price could scale depending on size of trading inventory - for every x cells it cost y gp, i'd rather pay 30g for an extra trade tab on screen at once instead of 2 trades.
like irl shipping.
gold pouches should be 2x2 instead of 1x1 to put off gold hoarding, it means players need to do fresh runs more frequently instead of doing loot runs for hours.

[sleek terrace]

@snow mulch the biggest thing between POE and this is that POE you don't lose gear you upgrade. tons of gear are lost in the swarm or to other players or to NPC's. there is a gear sink and gear will always be lost period.

Yeah, i don't think the meta will change too much as the game feels pretty balanced being said (outside cheese). the PvE makes the PvP kinda awkward at times too. it's positioning and timing. and being a rock paper scissors- Melee > range, Range > Mage, Mage > melee

true, i think having a slot to have gold stored between accounts allow for new toons to get gear and merchant gear too atleast to build up gear on that character.
i really like the limited space it pushes my group and myself to actively use gear in runs and been more profitable and had a lot more balanced and challenging fights with other geared players. and if i die, at least the gear will go to another player and be used or will be lost

Edit: and some of the gear already is going for 1k which is 20 slots of gold pouches for maximum 8- so getting 1 set of gear will be easily worth tens of thousands.

[lean terrace]

So I've been reading through this chat from last night. A 13 year old makes a suggestion in this this post, people argue valid points against him. Because he doesn't have an argument back he starts back pedaling saying he doesn't actually care, when he obviously does. And we ban him? Come on guys, don't treat your players this way. I'm also not 13, I'm 40. I suggest we ban for actual trolling and not for saying its trolling when it wasn't. <@&988703997378584596>

[long citrus]

Please bring moderation issues to the DMs of myself or Wolfkyri so we can address the situation and find a resolution 💎⛏ Thank you very kindly!

[lean terrace]

I saw what he put. His suggestion was real. He stated that when he didnt win the arguement. Thats not trolling

[fringe void]

Pls take a look at Rule # 11

[hallow anvil]

They did a really good job but encouraging people to play more than one class. I've actually had a very good time enjoying new classes. Favorites wizard though, so complex and rewarding

Mm, good idea.

I am really excited to see what the training tab has to offer

I would say devs for dark and darker actually do listen, they care a lot about this game, kind of their baby if you will (first one labeled by the studio,)
Ive seen them change a bunch of things over that past few playtests, and theyve done a really good job balancing. Wizard and barb were useless before. Now i feel i see eqch class pretty evenly in games

[autumn anchor]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Holy fuck this suggestion 🤣
How bad do you have to be to suggest this

[hallow anvil]

Best not to attack someone's character over a suggestion.
Its Clear the person is struggling to adjust to this model of gameplay

@snow mulch I'm pretty sure the percentiles apply after the rest of the bonuses, so like after applying a plus five damage, plus five true damage, plus five physical power, I'm pretty sure the plus 5% damage is added afterwards, sure plus five damage is usually better than plus 5% damage, but such as the way with rolls, weapons are good roles. Some weapons are bad roles

[granite plinth]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
Yes. Just take my fking money please.

[grave patio]

what if we put the lockpicking skill and pick pocket skill together and rename it to study hands so at least pick pocket would get a change to shine once in a while

[hallow anvil]

Only upvoted for comedy, im of the side that thinks they can develop a better game without worrying about user experiences during the development process

We can hope for it in the future

@grave patio great suggestion! Throw it in.

[dense osprey]

i was thinking along the lines of obviously the game needs work, but let us keeping playing/testing it. I think its developed enough to be considered in an Alpha phase

[granite plinth]

I get that point of view Var'uun and the arguments for it are valid. I do think that you can have both though. it's on them to strike the balance of how much user experience during their dev process they want to worry about. When you're buying an early access alpha as a consumer you should be mindful of these things as well.

[hallow anvil]

@granite plinth @dense osprey
You're both right, but you have to also think of it from a business perspective. Open it up too long to the public during an alpha phase. Could ruin the public's outlook on the game, People are already rushing to media outlets to report on the state of the game, to leave things open? I don't know. It would really slow down development, especially only 20 or so developers.

The problem is, during these play tests they don't really get a whole lot done in terms of new features, the gather a lot of data on balancing issues and server problems, but that's pretty much as far as it goes. Development on new processes really does take a long time, especially when you're trying to scramble and fix everything that's catching fire.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see you in early access off of this, but I also want to see the game thrive

[dense osprey]

I see that perspective as well... I guess at the end of the day it would come down to what kind of timeline the devs are thinking. Cause if development is going smoothly i feel like they could move to Early Access immediately. and at the end of the day its on the consumer when paying money for an Early Access game in my opinion. And as long as development doesn't take as long as say Star Citizen I feel like it wouldn't have a huge effect on public outlook

[granite plinth]

All fair points. I suppose that the consumer perception on what "Early Access Alpha" means is the real issue. When I am offered the opportunity to play a stable release of an upcoming title still in development I am only as critical as I need to be from the technical standpoint. Looking for bugs, exploits, and giving opinion on balance and QOL features that could improve user gameplay experience. I think the risk comes into play when utilizing the big platforms like Steam where you can potentially get review bombed by knuckle dragging smooth brained 12 year old who don't understand the product they just swiped their parents card for. If there was a way to offer a early access alpha outside of those platforms that would be great because the risk of public scrutiny on a alpha is not going to lighten up anytime soon unless negativity stops being therapeutic for people with social disorders.

[hallow anvil]

@dense osprey
@granite plinth

100% agree, it's all on the consumer to recognize that this is an in development process and complaining with server issues isn't going to fix anything, the only issue with that is that as you said 12-year-old smooth brain knuckle draggers. It's all fun and dandy, but if the majority of the community can't respect the fact that it's an upcoming game and need to be patient for server issues instead of complaining in the forums, that's where we slow development down hugely.

It can also ruin veterans experiences of the game as a whole, removing the sort of fresh feel aspect that I think they're trying to go for by keeping 60% of the content locked. We still haven't even seen the first floor, and I'm pretty sure they're saving that.
I'm a prime example of having the game ruined for me, I played subnautica since it's very first early access release. It was miserable in that state. Every tiny update having to go back and see what progress I could make, only seeing drank bits of open code, subtitles instead of voice lines and placeholder dots where the cure was. Was. Still gave a good review cuz I recognized it was a very good game, I just didn't have a good time with it after release

Please be patient with typos, I'm using voice to text

Same kind of thing happened with Hunt, it used to be a hoard survival sort of game, then changed to an extraction shooter. (I believe the first of its kind? Someone correct me)

[jaunty gulch]

lol everyone thumbs downed your suggestions

[wind cloak]

Everyone who keeps begging for PvE to be easier, just save your breath

[midnight heron]

I'd appreciate to have some good controller support... since it can be played like skyrim tbh... currently it is impossible 😦

[wind cloak]

No

Go become a game designer?

[hallow anvil]

Amything to say other than no? Were looking for feedback here.

[wind cloak]

Alright I'll add it boys

[obtuse lynx]

Я открыл дверь на спавне и меня запиздели 3 хуесоса делать что то будем с этим?

[oak hamlet]

Not sure if this was said before, but matchmaking would be nice, also a solo only and party only modes are needed since there are ppl who enjoy going on solo rides but get ganked by parties of 3.

[bitter stratus]

Это не совсем предложение. Я думаю, вы хотите опубликовать в #q-and-a

[granite plinth]

What do yall think of the idea of rogues having a talent along with stealth that lets them do an interaction in invis though invis drops at the end of whatever interact they chose to do?

[hallow anvil]

Might make pickpocket too broken

[bitter stratus]

Seems rather pointless given it'd end after the interact anyway so thats what, another half second with interact speed for rogues?

Rogue is perfectly 'fine' as is, kitwise.

[granite plinth]

Yea I'm referring to a lockpick, container open, door open interact. I agree its good as is, though it does rinnow seem to feel equivalent to if not a little less cool than wiz invis, while I don't think it should be buffed to high heaven I think the ability to do a single interaction from invis would be interesting for a rogue

[finite yacht]

What do you guys think about "Procedural Dungeons"? I feel it would really add excitement to the game not knowing what was behind the next turn and reduce camping etc.

[hallow anvil]

See im torn. One hand i love the idea, on the other. It kind of reinforces map understanding and adds another layer of skill into the game. Im not sure i would like randomness, both have pros and cons. Id like to see map varients. Not exactly procedural

[finite yacht]

@hallow anvil Knowing the map ahead of time defeats the purpose of the game. The game is a dungeon crawler 1st and a BR 2nd which is very different than most BRs that are BR 1st and environment 2nd.

[autumn anchor]

@urban charm There already is Shift right click

[hallow anvil]

@mellow oar i want the map to STEP ON ME, not get easier.

@finite yacht
Its closer to an extraction shooter than a br style game. The purpose of the game is to delve deep and fight monsters. I get what youre saying on the lore side of things, but youre underestimating just how difficult procesurally generated maps are on this kind of game.

[trail python]

This game is mideival tarkov and it’s amazing

[craggy gate]

@urban charm shift right click already does your suggestion

[prisma lynx]

@urban charm all of that functionality exits between alt shift and control clicking

[urban charm]

i can't seem to get it to work.. i will try again

[finite yacht]

@hallow anvil I think there could be a middle ground with procedural dungeons where it's not all procedural. group a bunch or room types together. Then group hallways, then randomize them. Not true procedural but random enough as a start.

[hallow anvil]

They already somewhat do that, the maps are made up of "building blocks" or so to say, that they move those blocks around to change the layout.
Everyone from last playtest will recognize every room in the current 2 maps. (Dont fight me on carpet table room, they just retextured that and added alcoves) But theyre just in different spots.

[craggy gate]

no the map is the same every time

[trail python]

They are the same everytime they only change when a new play test comes out

[hallow anvil]

Its very much not. There are 2 map varients with this playtest. They change those building blocks after each playtest, but two maps are VERY different from eachother

@trail python yes, i was talking about the map layout in between playtests.

[finite yacht]

Maybe also a web based map creation tool. Have maps contributed by the community.

[trail python]

Ah ok I just started last night but so many people think it’s randomly generated and I’ve played for less than 7 hours and already have both maps memorized

[hallow anvil]

Yeah no, aha, theres two variants, and they switch up those building blocks every playtest

[hazy nimbus]

im sorry. people like trade chat? people want...a 'trading experience'
why the hell does anyone like sifting through literal spam to try and find the one damn piece of gear they want
what the fuck????

[craggy gate]

...yes?

[hallow anvil]

Youve never played diablo 2, or runescape...

If you dont like the overpopulated first chat, go to the second chat

Also @cerulean phoenix 100%, if the zone is coming in, i cant even revive my partner bc as a wizard it takes 3 years

[finite yacht]

Without procedural maps I feel gameplay will get old fast once the newness wears off. People will stop focusing on dungeon crawler gameplay once their inventory is full of top tier items and just focus on PVP. Then its just a regular BR like all the others. Not saying that couldnt still happen with procedural but it would add for more playability.

[hazy nimbus]

No. I never played diablo 2 or runescape, if thats the system they use to trade its absolute garbage.
didnt know yall enjoyed spamming chat, fine

[graceful frost]

An auction house isn’t rlly the solution to that personally I’m fine with the trade chat however I think it would be nice if they let you find items by filters and limited the amount of players in each just don’t see a reason not to have it it really works fine

Tbh an auction house just inflated items you can get really nice deals on items currently but if 2 ppl are tryna get the same item it will just inflate the place for no reason

[prisma lynx]

If auction house exists it makes it too easy to sell gear. It becomes full of the best gear and the game experience becomes go to auction house, buy gear, win/die, repeat instead of having to find the gear or interacting with players to get it. It is so bad for the experience of the game

[hazy nimbus]

I grew up on WoW, not RS or Diablo so it just seems like a no brainer to have an actual AH

[craggy gate]

i grew up on WoW too but I still like this trade system, you're the odd one out here

[finite yacht]

What do you guys think about playing as monsters and adventurers as a team vs team play mode?

[hazy nimbus]

eh, I was never really into dungeon crawlers, DnD is an odd game for me to enjoy

[night lily]

Add friend list pls pls

[craggy gate]

this isn't left 4 dead

[hazy nimbus]

it SOUNDS cool but it detracts from what the game is. Which is a PvPvE dungeon crawler. While DnD has a BR ring, we dont want it to become a full on BR

[prisma lynx]

I think once they add filters to trade chat or more separation. Then you will find it better. It does need some qol features for finding certain people trading certain things. But it is crucial that trading for items and selling items takes effort. Otherwise you get tarkov end game. Auction house - win/die- Auction house. No player interaction needed, everyone has powerful gear

[mellow laurel]

For trading we are unable to split stacks of items.

[native flax]

hey I suggest to hardly nerf longbows and quickshot

[hallow anvil]

Diablo 1 is still the best, prove me wrong

[hazy nimbus]

also I do think some map randomization is gonna be needed in the long run or else its probably gonna lose the dungeon crawling aspect and become a "run here, here, and here then leave" instead of. yknow. crawling through the dungeon?

[hollow valley]

Anyone else find that the triple shot for Rangers is a little frustrating to use some times?

[prisma lynx]

I think most people think it is too strong

[hollow valley]

Oh for sure its ridiculous especially if you have a strong bow but I find myself accidentally shooting my teammates since the shots are automatic rather than on click

[prisma lynx]

It is mostly only strong though as a result that rangers have too much mobility though. Like you said the movement while drawing and with agility and putting away their weapon makes them super hard to catch. Impossible even if they are skilled

Yeah that can be annoying. Being able to hold each shot would be super strong too though

[hollow valley]

It makes playing anything melee feel completely useless like by the time I get to them I have 1hp woohoo. I've only been playing for 3 days and Ranger by far has been my safest pick and my greatest nemesis its like what do you do against them besides just play ranger and hit more headshots

[vernal basalt]

[prisma lynx]

A skilled melee will still kill a non skilled ranger ofc. It's just if it is even then the ranger has pretty much all the cards

[hollow hedge]

You guys like the lockpicking minigame? da fuq

[hollow valley]

Yeah initally my though process was I'll play fighter and just tank the arrows that get past the shield but even with all the AR I had I was still losing like 3/4th of my health before even making it to them