q-and-a

[proven oak]

Items alone are pointless for sure, but with enough skill it can save your life

[stone otter]

I think players need to learn to not be attached to the loot. as in to say, they need to be willing to lose it all and still be comfortable. wanting to keep stuff on death comes from being too afraid of losing everything and gaining nothing, but that same fear is what drives players to get better and maintains the suspensful nature of the game, which I believe is a core aspect that shouldn't be fucked with

[proven oak]

yeah

When you don't care about losing your stuff anymore you can surprisingly do better

I noticed that in the tournament held by cross

Somehow just caring about kills and not loot or losing stuff improved me & my team's gameplay

[stone otter]

aye. in a way thats its own skill barrier, is learning to accept the game for what it is

[proven oak]

ye

But in a way i think giving the possibility for new players to get a better gear early on would accelerate overcoming that skill barrier

Otherwise that can be limited to consumables but it'd make no sense to buy them anymore since there is a lot of them in the dungeons

[stone otter]

I DO think that there should be some sort of progression to allow players to change up their weapon types for starting equipment

ie starting with just a staff as wizard SUCKS, lemme earn the ability to at least have a shitty dagger instead

[proven oak]

This might be possible if they implement quests

[stone otter]

clerics get staff, mace, AND shield

[proven oak]

e.g doing 5 kills with a dagger as a wiz allow you to pick dagger as a starting item

OR they could give us a special stash full of starting weapons for each class

[stone otter]

either or, yeah

[crimson swan]

I did say it could cost gold to buy, I do agree. I want to encourage people who are not doing well to keep trying so they learn. If they get something, even just a single gold band, it's something. They will try again and hopefully find a blue portal. Other side is those who are doing well trying to not lose that rare key. Cause even in a group of 3 fully decked out, 3 well placed fireballs/chain lighting will end you rite away. All your other gear is lost, but you can try again for that door/chest. IDK its up to the DEVs to choose but 1-4 slots would be nice at the end of the day is my thought.

[keen dew]

Wizards are kind of too much for me as a solo player as well though, mfs just be beaming me and I die in less than a minute

I guess they aren't that much for classes with magic resistances but I uh was playing a cleric

[crimson swan]

Fully Kitted Wizard is just scary.

[keen dew]

clerics are scary when they're beefed up

[stone otter]

but its like.. this game is exploding in popularity, not losing players. I don't think player retention is a problem, so trying to fix something like that is fixing something thats not broken

[crimson swan]

Agreed, had a cleric beat me to death with the fists, twice in one round.

[keen dew]

downing good ale, decent melee weapons that add up to your strength, they could have the stats of a base barbarian

and a bless added ontop of their stats would make them better than a base barbarian

too bad I get beamed before I even get the chance for melee fight preparations

[crimson swan]

Fair, then its not for the new players, aka the gold cost. Its for the vets who just dont want to lose a rare key. Could even be part of the quest system.

[kind imp]

gotta be aware of your surroundings and know when to buff up

[keen dew]

nah, I definitely do, most players just know to target the cleric first and foremost

healers and buffers are a priority in a battlefield

[kind imp]

you always kill the cleric first, if no cleric kill the squishiest ones first

and dont melee rush into a range attacker

if youre fighting a decent tank cleric youre just goin to be hitting the shield tho or possibly walk into a 2 handed hammer so its hard to say

[crimson swan]

On another note, when using lockpicks: I understand if they 100% (or like 50-80% break when playing a rogue) break when you click outside of the zone in the minigame. However, should they not break if you don't click at all? Or should they always break even when you don't try to hit the zone?

[slow violet]

I getcha, I think everyone should voice their thoughts. Devs can take it if good and make an a good game even better. Some people just get lost in thinking their idea is the game changer and everyone else should shut up. No, definitely voice out thoughts and just be open to people responding with their two cents if it is good or bad idea at the same time. I like the heart to care about new players.

[stone otter]

lockpick minigame is defo too punishing as is. can barely even attempt to learn it because it happens so fast and then breaks.

[trail widget]

I'll argue wizard has a better starter kit because he starts with a potion. Cleric only needs 3 weapons because you can't cast without a staff and mage have damaging spells too so clerics need a melee weapon but it's awful at 26 dmg. also buckler is like half a shield

honestly mage is better naked for movement speed anyway

[stone otter]

yeah but staff is 19 damage and slow as hell. if you arent with a group but you're a solo wizard just starting off, you dont have time to meditate after every room, and otherwise it takes as much time to kill one skeleton as a fighter takes to clear a whole room

[trail widget]

true, the only class better at pve is ranger

[stone otter]

all im saying is give the wizard a shitty grey dagger so he can shank stuff faster

[trail widget]

im sure it's possible in the future maybe

[stone otter]

yeah I agree

[runic iron]

When is the next playtest again? February?

[stone otter]

yep

[runic iron]

Nice, do we have an exact day or should we just keep an eye out?

[craggy sleet]

Will there be different offers when u sell something to different merchants ? I mean now you just sell what u get at Armorer, Collector and Alchemist if im right

[pearl hearth]

Supposedly, if the loading menu tool tips are any hint

[craggy sleet]

Yeah i saw something like that thats why im asking would be nice

[scenic copper]

They said likely during Steam's Nextfest event which runs from 6th to 13th February

[runic iron]

Nice, thank you very much

[harsh pilot]

Today its Februray? i need play this drug XD

[orchid hound]

hey guys. what are y'all playing in the meantime to scratch the d&d itch? i'm really fond of the extraction genre but i'd prefer something that isn't a shooter (which most of them are). i also enjoyed the focus on dungeon exploration and (especially) the constant search for chests/color-coded loot

[trim gust]

I feel like it should, but i had like 3 chances to test it. Never paid attention as i didnt run ambush 2 of those times.

[pearl hearth]

I typically ask my DM to set up a day to play for my d&d itch. My playgroup is pretty flexible

[stone otter]

im not trying to troll but honestly skyrim has alot of similar vibes

[covert delta]

I've bought a bunch of dungeon crawlers on Steam, Aeon of Sands, Legend of Grimrock 2, Lunacid, they're more puzzly, secrets en exploration based than actual D&D roleplaying.
Have you played the Baldur's Gate series?

[storm nova]

How much damage does ignite give

[torpid spade]

maybe an item to "teleport any item in your inventory back to your stash" that you have use in dungeon

that way, you can still lose that item if you die early, or you can use it to port something back to stash if cornered or fml i'll die

[glossy peak]

Anyone know for sure what magical interaction speed does?

is that related to how fast u use the shrines?

[stone otter]

not implimented yet

[snow condor]

Ignite gives a flat 5 bonus to attacks, although I didn't end up testing if +magical damage gear improves this. It also adds a short burn effect which can be increased with the fire mastery perk

[storm nova]

If you get a good dagger you can literally 4 shot people as a wizard with ignite

[glossy peak]

how are you sure it's not implemented? @stone otter

[snow condor]

Hopefully next playtest we get access to the tavern for longer than a few seconds so we can test these things lol

[stone otter]

#❓faq message

scroll down for more mechanics and stats. I didnt see magical interaction speed listed tho, but even in-game some stats listed flat out stated some of their functions arent implemented yet

[glossy peak]

ah i see, thanks for the response

[stone otter]

👌

[glossy peak]

i was guessing, if it is implemented, that magical interaction speed affects things like the shrines and portals

wasnt 100% sure tho

since im pretty sure regular action speed affects everything else like chests/corpses etc

[glossy peak]

Another question, anyone know the difference between Action speed and Regular Interaction Speed?

[cerulean seal]

Will this game come out sooner then its stated? I honeslty think most people want the game now, and I am one of them, I was deadass addicted to it.

[terse harbor]

Action speed governs attack speed, how fast you stow/swap weapons, using pots/bandages, campfire setup. Interaction Speed (Regular), is for everything you interact with in the dungeon, doors, chest, torches, etc.

[glossy peak]

thanks for reply @terse harbor also may i ask where you acquired this information? just from gameplay or has a developer actually stated this somewhere?

[terse harbor]

from unofficial data gathered by the gods https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_YNh5ava9fOXLA9kzthtaK7yHTuKSlef/view

[digital holly]

bro.. open the server plz...

[glossy peak]

@terse harbor I didn't know about this, it answers a lot of my questions. Thank you for the replies!

[terse harbor]

it's outdated now, especially for weapons and gear stats, but the basics like how attributes work and game mechanics should be the same, glad i could help

[cerulean seal]

is it possible that you guys open the servers sooner?

[prime venture]

according to the developer answer, not possible

you can wait at february for the next playtest though

[cerulean seal]

mannnn

there deadass is no other good games rn

and no games even come close to dark and darker when it comes to it being so different

and its fun nonstop

I deadass never got bored of it

[storm nova]

same brotha

[cursive hamlet]

fr we all feelin the same typo pain

[storm nova]

i'm having withdrawal i cant take it anymore

[cursive hamlet]

im not

ur not 10 bear w it

[storm nova]

[velvet shoal]

fortnite

[boreal copper]

JAJAJAJAJAJAAJAA

[velvet shoal]

sorry i meant albion online

[boreal copper]

c;;

[plucky lynx]

as a ranger can you light your arrows using the braziers and wall torches I forgot to try that out ?

[terse harbor]

no

[tepid junco]

Why's the voice chat "The Tavern" locked?

[spice ether]

exclusive

[cold tundra]

The tavern is closed mate

[elder cosmos]

Where I can install Dark and Darker?

[past birch]

When you have your shield on your secondary slot and not equipped, if i shoot you from the back, shouldn't the shield block it?

Bc it displays the shield on your back

[past birch]

on your pc of prefference

[elder cosmos]

From a site or from stream?

[past birch]

is this a joke?

Steam

[elder cosmos]

Unfortunately no because I can't install it

[desert mulch]

because the playtest is over 💀

pretty sure you can only wishlist it as of now

[elder cosmos]

And when I can install it?

[summer flare]

February

[elder cosmos]

Oerfect

Perfect*

[trail grotto]

the game is unplayable now right?

[heavy oxide]

is dark and darker planning on following a wipe system similar to tarkov or a league system similar to path of exile in the future(I know its currently wipes like tarkov)? Leagues would at least give players a chance to play high attribute rare gear that moves to a standard or base server at the end of the newest league, and leagues would give the opportunity to play fresh servers with new features.

[terse harbor]

i think they mentioned they intend to do wipes

don't quote me on that though

[prisma kiln]

They said they want to do seasonal wipes

you can quote me on that

[heavy oxide]

yes but season wipes and leagues are very similar, I'm mainly asking if they plan on housing a non wiped server that migrates gear at the end of a wipe

[minor iris]

deadass i deadass dead ass ass dead donkey

[limber flame]

in some games if you get magic pen, even if the magic resist is 0 the pen goes into negative dmg, is that how it works in this game? or in its current state is magic pen useless unless the target has resist?

[dense lotus]

Is February another alpha test or will it be early access

[limber flame]

another test is what they said

[crimson swan]

Are there any plans to have some kind of counterspell ability/spell for wizards/other classes? It would make wizard duels alot more tense and fun.

[deft agate]

Feb is early access

[simple socket]

What does the B stand for in B2 and B3?

[warm oar]

headcannon: basement

[wise vessel]

How much Hp do the monster have? Is there a chart I can go look at?

[crude lantern]

unknown at the moment

[grand tundra]

Feb will be test and after that should be EA

[unborn wigeon]

Playtest should just be left open

[crude lantern]

no it shouldnt

we played for a week

and we consumed all the content

[unborn wigeon]

not long enough

lol

[crude lantern]

aside from doing a boss and getting some awesome gear

[grand tundra]

The one month apart playtest, like no development got done. The two month apart playtest, tons of new stuff.

[crude lantern]

this is pretty much all the game has to offer

[grand tundra]

If they leave it open, nothing will get done

[crude lantern]

@grand tundra i think they spent that 1 month expanding their offices etc

makes sense if they saw success and got investors

they need to expand

[grand tundra]

They also have investors expecting a deadline

They’ve been fully funded since the beginning, supposedly

They did admit to relaxing during that one month though because they were happy with the success

[crude lantern]

that's a good thing

i dont want them to crunch

[grand tundra]

Yeah

For how much people complain about bugs, there are surprisingly few that matter

[crude lantern]

true

i did find issues, but not major bugs

[compact linden]

6 other classes. Thats why there was 6 greyed out boxs

[crimson swan]

I don’t think you responded to the rite person.

[compact linden]

i thought you meant are there going to be any other classes hehe, sorry

[minor loom]

gear on your back and or secondary slot weapons do not give you any gear or protect you from any damage, from what ive seen this play test.

[past birch]

yeah but dont you think it should protect your back since its ON YOUR BACK?

[minor loom]

ideally yes, but then how would you manage players using a "stat stick" as a secondary. i believe as of this play test the pavicespelling is hard was the only shield that seemed to block anything on a players back.

[ripe plume]

I wonder if there's plans to make skeletons immune to bleed and resistances in general

[hexed bronze]

Is there a way to play DaD right now?

[primal shore]

Close your eyes really tight: imagination

[terse harbor]

pavise doesn't block anything while on your back

[timid egret]

i was wondering the same thing, i see some people playing it

actually i think the servers might be up

[hexed bronze]

Id love if the servers were up till the next patch and so on but I can also imagine that it would be too much work while also working on the game

[severe lodge]

Servers are not up people are using old gameplay to keep people interested in watching them or to show off their skills

[blissful sinew]

But but but i need my game back 🙂

[timid egret]

ooooh alright got it

[prisma kiln]

A lot of those issues seem to be entirely UE5 related. Engine hasn't finished releasing yet.

[real olive]

How can I become an early access tester

[runic warren]

Step 1 is waiting for a playtest to start lol. Next one is Feb. 6th

[real olive]

It’s too long I can’t wait 😭😭

[lusty matrix]

I hope I'll be able to get in

[runic warren]

Literally anyone can get in. Just smack "Request Access" when it starts and boom, you're in lol

[real olive]

Feb 6th and then how long can we expect to play it for

[runic warren]

A week, maybe? I'm not sure if it was specified

[lusty matrix]

ok good :) I just didnt know if they would do that again

[terse harbor]

next playtest is during the steam next fest so from 6th-13th

[cloud notch]

They are wrong theres another way here is the simple 7 step process:

||1. Learn game development
2. Learn Korean
3. Get enough on your portfolio and resume to be considered for a game dev position
4. Move to south korea
5. Apply for a job at ironmace
6. Get the job at ironmace
7. You are now an early access tester and developer congratz||

Its quite simple

[real olive]

Your mean

[cloud notch]

You're*

[proven oak]

Minor spelling mistake 🗿

[cloud notch]

[tough shale]

Stats like 1% interaction speed confuse me. Is there actually a benefit to this stat or is it there so that some gear is more desirable than others

[valid ingot]

i guess this and other unuseful stats needs some tweaks (assuming 1% interaction speed is what it says, like increase to 5 or 10%)

[proven oak]

flat boosts are much better than % boosts here

All attributes is the graal of stat boosts

[valid ingot]

i think the % need some adjustments, or leave it what it is like a shitty buff

[fringe mist]

i am sure this is asked alot but I noted people are playing the game is there anywhere to jump in on it?

[proven oak]

They could also definitely remove the % stat boosts

No one is playing the game

The guys in VC are showing twitch replays

[valid ingot]

is there a wiki page to see all the item effects?

idk what is physical healing for example

[proven oak]

Physical healing is healing due to physical items

So potions for ex

[valid ingot]

hmm, and those true damage modifiers ?

[brisk sapphire]

Bandages for sure.

True damage skips all resistances.

[valid ingot]

if it says +1 true magic damage it applies to each tick of magic missile?

[terse harbor]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_YNh5ava9fOXLA9kzthtaK7yHTuKSlef/view outdated for the last playtest, but mechanics will be the same

[valid ingot]

ty

[burnt badger]

Would the game be better if my cat was added into the game, his name is seven

[dire umbra]

its q and a so if it is a question then answer is: "no"

[solar timber]

I'm in the sweating, vomiting and diarrhea state of withdrawal from not getting any D&D play. I physically cannot keep going much longer. I need to play D&D.

[normal apex]

https://tenor.com/view/soviet-cat-sovicat-soviet-ussr-cat-gif-21826197

fr fr

[wispy parcel]

how did bonus magic damage work for passive poison on rogues anyways?

[willow crystal]

maaaaaaan i need to play more of this game cant the def jsut let the play test be online untill he releses the game XD

[valid ingot]

any plans to increase stats based on leveling up? like a fixed amount or free distribution?

[valid ingot]

great infos there, ty, just read it all

[timber palm]

I just found out about this game via a youtube clip then northernlion, I need to know is there a way to get into the alpha? Be it patreon or something?

[tepid monolith]

nope gotta wait for the next playtest feb 6th

[slow violet]

🤫

[serene frost]

I wonder if their are going to be cursed items

[burnt badger]

The playtests are free and public but they are at set times for short periods of time. The next is for Feb 6th. #❓faq for more info.

[kind imp]

can you use the torch or lantern with an offhand weapon?

[burnt badger]

No. Anything that goes in the slots of 3/4 are one-handed operations

[trim gust]

Only yime % buffs are good is on barbarian. And its % dmg boost. As barb already has high dmg. On any other character. No. Ill take flat over % unless its both on 1 peice.

[valid ingot]

would only make some sense if stats increased in some way with the character level, otherwise, only barb is the winner with this

[trim gust]

We also noticed that it says 1-5% but in reality it was like a 10-20% boost. But that was only noted on a friends fighter. Could have been the weapon. Or something. But cant really see stats from in main menu the same as in game.

[proven sable]

why are there so many vc"s

[sick shadow]

he doesnt know

[solid venture]

Will Solo/Duo/Squads be an option in the future?

[rich smelt]

any plans for proximity chat?

[ripe path]

Does anyone know how to request permission to test play the alpha game?

[trail orchid]

ask

[spiral thicket]

to who and where? On here?

[proven oak]

kidnap a dev and asks them

[spiral thicket]

done

[glossy peak]

Does debuff duration bonus only affect debuffs inflicted on other players? Surely it doesn't make debuffs on you last longer

[wind swan]

I think if u can't request it on steam it's probably just a long wait till release day

[wet mantle]

Debuff duration bonus makes debuffs on you last shorter, as per mouse over description

[glossy peak]

oh i see, thank you

[past birch]

if there will be cursed items, can there be holy blessed items?

[proven oak]

Yeah, the beer

[elder goblet]

Does all items and stuff wipe from playtest to playtest?

[prime venture]

yes

[wind wolf]

Is a warlock seperate rrom a wizard? I see both on dnd but ive never played it

Dungeons and dragon*

[ember gate]

warlocks are dark spellcasters that make pacts with eldritch creatures for their magic

they're basically wizards but more weird

[wind wolf]

They would be seperate from the wizard then? Two diff classes

[ember gate]

In dungeons and dragons, yes

I could see something like an alternate spell memory on the wizard in this game though

[wind wolf]

Shoot so we have 3 then.. sorcecer, warlock, wizard

[ember gate]

Like, you equip a particular spell memory feature to have a different set of spells to pick from

I imagine a "dark magic" spell memory could be cool, then we can throw in necromancy and curses and stuff

I think there's a space for what D&D 5e

warlock is like

With something similar to Eldritch Blast: A relatively weak damage dealing spell with unlimited uses, closer to a weapon than a spell

But on the other hand, I'm not sure how it could be made really unique

Right now, the game's classes are actually really well designed and encapsulate a lot of what you'd want to play

Although I think we're missing the "dark magic" vibe, and bards will definitely be a fantastic addition

Imagine thunderwave!

A wave of pure sound that shoves people back

I can see why Bard is taking a while to make, though. It's important to get it right.

Will we have Druid in the next playtest, though?

[thick egret]

highly doubtfull they are prolly gonna fully fleshout wizard before adding other mage like classes

[ember gate]

To be fair, I think Druid's gonna be more like the shapeshifter class without too much spells

But yes, flesh out Wizard first. Rebalance some of his spells while we're at it (ignite is egregious)

[winged girder]

Not zap? When geared I was one tapping all classes but barb with it

And a couple fighters

[primal canopy]

Zap is slept on.

[ember gate]

Oh yeah forgot about Zap

[winged girder]

Ignite is hated because it was such a common tool used by wizards. But if you listen you can hear them coming and play against it

[ember gate]

shit's busted

U guys are right ignite's prolly fine, though it's incredibly strong with good equipment on a dagger build

Light orb is just kinda sad tho

[primal canopy]

You can hear all the spells, people complain because they feel like wizard is a better rogue.

[winged girder]

It does need a tweak but idk how you would do it. Cus I did some nastiness also with ignited dagger + ball

[primal canopy]

And it’s interesting because rogue was dominating before.

[ember gate]

I think the main issue is that Wizard took Rogue's job

[primal canopy]

We started running wizard as a counter to ranger and rogue.

[wind wolf]

Reading some of the wizard spells, seems pretty legit.

Spell: Animate Object
With this spell, a player can animate up to 10 objects. Each object, depending on their size, has HP, AC, Str, Dex and an attack

[ember gate]

It's also ridiculous how well modifiers stack in late game on Wizard spells like Zap, Ignite, Magic Missile

[winged girder]

All modifiers are to strong personally

[ember gate]

Like I think that's the main issue, the damage boost modifiers are just too strong

[winged girder]

One shots should be achievable but not until insane gear

[primal canopy]

No I know, I was replying to the hearing spells is a counter point.

I pocketed a top wizard basically the entire play test lol.

[winged girder]

I meant you can hear their footprints when Invis. With how knowledge could stack I was basically instant casting. No. Amount of hearing it will stop it hitting you if your in the wrong place

[primal canopy]

That’s based.

[winged girder]

I think haste is more of an issue. No other class can get that movement speed bonus 5 times in under a minute haha

[ember gate]

I think they should just make all the spells have one less use before running out, right now it feels like you have a bottomless barrel of magic

[primal canopy]

We also might see a meta shift when a second support role is introduced.

[ember gate]

With invis it's almost a teleport with how well it lets you reposition

[winged girder]

Invis alone doesn't do that

Invis and haste does

[ember gate]

They should remove the speed boost on invis, and make it lose duration quicker when you move

[primal canopy]

Let’s assume there’s six pairs of footsteps too, really hard to track the invis wizard who’s going to one shot someone.

We played for a forced 3v2 every time.

[ember gate]

So like, if you stand still, it lasts the longest it possibly can, but if you zoom around, it's gone super quick

That should be how invis works imo

[primal canopy]

I really want to see PT3 data.

[ember gate]

Same

[blissful mortar]

does anyone know what impact power means?

[primal canopy]

Wizard was the least played class last patch.

[ember gate]

4 seconds is ages

[primal canopy]

Or, play test.

I mean.

[winged girder]

I mean it's 4 seconds. It's only dangerous when they have haste cus of the ground they can make. Your not getting very far as a wizard without haste in Invis. If you let a wizard get behind you with Invis no haste. I'd say that's a team issue not a spell issue

[ember gate]

Wouldn't be surprised if that was still the same tbh. Wizard is a challenge, even if it is kinda OP

Without moving.

That's the key

[primal canopy]

It’s hard to track an invis wizard with six pairs of feet walking around.

Prot pots are noise canceling headphones too.

[ember gate]

The problem isn't that they can spend 4 seconds camping a door

[winged girder]

This is also very true. I either came across good wizards or horrendously bad. There was never a. Middle tier haha

[ember gate]

The problem is that they can invis in front of you and pop up behind you

[silver mist]

just gotta listen to their little feetsies

[ember gate]

Easy against a solo wiz, harder against a team

Especially when they're hasted and bunny hoppin

[winged girder]

Still their footsteps are much quicker than any other class when theyve hasted . But I can see some people having g hard time with it. Sometimes when I would Invis in they just completely disregarded me haha

[ember gate]

I think most people assume you invis out, not invis in

To be fair, there's vids of solo Clerics rocking 3v1 lol

[wind wolf]

Best way to counter a wizard is running away on site

[ember gate]

Underrated advice

Cover is really helpful, and Wizard kinda needs you to charge towards them so they can flank around you

[winged girder]

I played a lot of wizard and barely used MM in pvp unless I was solo because I always had melee in my team. Had a couple awkward team kills where my magic missiles were just doing circles in the air and my friend went to loot and they just deleted him

[blissful mortar]

sometimes i feel like wizards do 0 damage, others i feel like you cant counter fireball spam other than running

[ember gate]

Against a good wizard you should just back up and hide behind a door, there's no way they can sneak up on you then

[blissful mortar]

its weird

[tacit tiger]

Newcomer here o/
just double checking that I understand correctly from my searching that there's no current way to get into the game yet, and the next opportunity won't be until February? ><

[winged girder]

Feb 6th correct

[blissful mortar]

the alpha test ended

[ember gate]

Yes.

[tacit tiger]

Thanks all :)

[ember gate]

Stick it out though, it'll be worth it

[tacit tiger]

I'll put it on my calendar :p

[ember gate]

Same

[tacit tiger]

Is there any registration link/tool somewhere so I can put my name on the list now, or is that not going to open until then too?

[blissful mortar]

anyone know what "ncreases impact power of attacks +1 to better defeat blocks/parries." means?

[winged girder]

The scaling goes wild past a certain point. My fireball could one tap a fighter with 130hp with a direct hit.

[ember gate]

There's no list if the other playtests are any indication

You can just get the game on Steam, no fuss

[ember gate]

Even base fireball does insane damage on a direct hit

but it is kinda slow so that makes sense to me imo

[winged girder]

Depending on your shield. Idk if u played any melee or what. But sometimes hitting someone blocking would force them into a mini stun/left open state. I believe physical power makes it so it takes less hits before they hit the stun threshold

[blissful mortar]

its kind of a non issue against any class that isnt rogue

[wind wolf]

Wizard is going to be one of 5he most interesting classes

[blissful mortar]

the fact that is aoe and has good dps feels kinda too much

[ember gate]

I don't know, the more I think about it, the more I think we should reserve judgement until everyone gets more familiar with the game. We may feel like we know everything now, but maybe there's some easy counterplay to Wizard we're all missing because we just haven't spent long enough with the game.

[wind wolf]

They bringing in paladins, druids, bard also maybe

[blissful mortar]

weird, i played mostly barb and never felt someone getting stunned, wish i got to play more

[ember gate]

Bard is confirmed 100%, but not in this playtest

[timid summit]

when next playtest

[tacit tiger]

I noticed in the #1026916693806686208 channel that wizard had the least reactions of the classes. I kinda expected it to be near the top before I had checked. Is it just a newer class compared to the others, or is it actually just less common?

[blissful mortar]

how do you guys feel about dual weilding? tried it with barb and it felt like ass

[wind wolf]

How does that one work.. i see he could still abilities or something

Why do people want to play bard?

[ember gate]

It's less common. Wizard is a really challenging class, even if it's interesting.

[ember gate]

FACE

THE MUSIC

dubstep

[tacit tiger]

ahh, fair fair, I saw the description about it being a sort of slower / more-tactical option, definitely piqued my interest at least ^^,

[blissful mortar]

i expected barb to be top 1 and he is the least played LOL

no one likes being slow af i guess

[ember gate]

Yeah, Ranger is the most popular, which checks out

[wind wolf]

Kinda ment it as, it has so much potential.. they can do so much with it, dnd already as the spells its just adapting them ingame

[winged girder]

Stuns probably not the right word. But they would have their shield knocked back for a second. I noticed it on ranger a few times would allow me to get a free arming sword hit.

[ember gate]

Considering how many Rangers I saw in my games

[winged girder]

Ranger Is most popular due to how it trivialises Pve.

[blissful mortar]

ive been shitting on rangers so bad tho, they need so much preparation for any fight, hardly see him being most played

[ember gate]

Ranger is also just a really good all-rounder. Great damage, great range ofc, good self-sustain, easiest PvE of any class, and probably appeals to the traditional FPS crowd

[tacit tiger]

Not gonna insult barb in d&d because it is a cool class, but I knew a lot of players in my groups felt averse picking something that at least initially appeared during first character creations to just be the least... "new/unique" of the many options.

I wonder if it's just lower in popularity because of a similar thing steering more players away from trying it first at least.

[blissful mortar]

maybe barb is just a hard counter to ranger

[wind wolf]

What spells does he have?

[winged girder]

Barbs fastest looter/door opener in game.

[ember gate]

Barb is a good one because of Rage and Smash letting you close the distance

[blissful mortar]

smash barb meta

[wind wolf]

Bard

Bard spells

[ember gate]

Mostly utility, buff spells, a little bit of healing

[winged girder]

Favourite thing was let the barb smash the door people are behind and launch a fireball a second after. Caught a few teams Unawares with that one

[ember gate]

I imagine Bard in this game will be almost entirely focused on buffs, like in Dungeons and Dragons

[blissful mortar]

bard is probably going to be the least solo focused class in the game

[winged girder]

I feel like bards gonna have sick healing and buffs but gonna be squishy like a wizard

[ember gate]

And being horny of course >:)

[blissful mortar]

just maybe combat buffs, some minor aoe heals, maybe a slow

and then they wack you with a lute

[ember gate]

I could see them having more weapon options than Wizard

And having much more resourcefulness and agility

[blissful mortar]

SMASH BARDS

break doors with your danm lute

[winged girder]

Wizard had options but they were all shit unless spellbook + crystal ball/roundel.

Crossbow was good memes shooting fire bolts from a legendary xbow tho

[tacit tiger]

I do appreciate games finding ways to make "supports" not feel totally bad when solo. Like making self-buff builds viable for solo play.

[winged girder]

One tapped a few rangers as wizz with it. I'm sure they questioned the game many times haha

[blissful mortar]

smite judgement cleric was cool to play, but i fellt like i was always missing some heal spell

but i guess he is not even a support by then

[winged girder]

I like the aoe spell on cleric. Was very nice and hit through walls which made it very nice at clearing awkward rooms

[blissful mortar]

i wish we get like 2 or 3 more perks per class, some feel unreal and others feel worthless

[tacit tiger]

Do most AoEs hit through walls, or is that primarily a cleric thing?

[winged girder]

All aoes hit walls. Only the cleric one goes through

But cleric one doesn't damage players only pve

[wind wolf]

Wizard with cantrips means they can attack from range eithout using spells?

[tacit tiger]

ahh, that's an interesting class feature

[blissful mortar]

also, having to manually stop moving to cast spells felt really bad, they should auto stop to cast if you are hitting your q/e

[tacit tiger]

In normal dungeons and dragons at least, yes. Cantrips are weaker types of spells which you can use an unlimited number of times at no cost. Idk about Dark and Darker though, never played it still :p

[blissful mortar]

maybe a single target less damage fireball

[winged girder]

Ah there isnt such a thing. If you want range attacks without spells in wizard you need a crossbow

[blissful mortar]

so you can compete with rangers at range

but wizrd already has a ton of tools so idk

they might be too full of solutions

[tacit tiger]

Cantrips were the least "Damage per second" but the most "Damage per resource", while other spells were very much worth casting since poking with cantrips wasn't going to be anywhere near what a skilled marksman could return to you in ranged dps.

My favorite part about cantrips isn't the damaging ones, it's the utility ones. Like being able to purify water, or food, or clean an item, or put a small patch on some damaged equipment. Lighting a campfire with no tools, or being able to create a "flashlight" for caving. There was a lot of them, and all spell casters would only be able to pick a couple, so each had different utilities they could offer.

[fair cape]

the game truly has nothing that can be compared to it

so you will have to try it in february

[blissful mortar]

ye, been playing mordhau and for honor for the medieval theme mainly

but they are EXTREMELY fast paced games, enought to be another whole world

[blissful mortar]

there aint much on the way of utility that matters on dark yet, maybe cast light but thats it

[ember gate]

Dark and Darker manages to be the most unique game by borrowing so many elements

[blissful mortar]

i could play solasta too, but its also very different

[ember gate]

Like, they've explicitly said that they're ripping off this or that feature from this or that game but it works so well because they have great taste

CS:GO movement with Mordhau melee mechanics? Brilliant, 10/10

[blissful mortar]

open door spell would be great

[tacit tiger]

I know it's early alpha so I don't expect much, but it sounds amazing even without any of that. ^^,
was more so just explaining the idea of cantrips for someone who hadn't heard of them yet, rather than saying it should be in the game

...though one of my favorite parts about game magic systems is the ways in which magic can be used to interact with non-combat problems.

[ember gate]

or a spell to mine shit, that takes forever

[blissful mortar]

another tool to not depend on agility

i literally play smash barb because i cant stand interacting with anything other than playing rogue

[ember gate]

the thing is, Dark and Darker is a combat game, period. If you're not fighting, you're actively avoiding fighting. Dungeons and Dragons has a lot more variety.

[tacit tiger]

Like, I was never really a WoW player, but the idea that it was just unique to one or two classes to be able to open up portals across the world for other players. Or to be able to create food/water/potions. Just always sounded cool to me that they found ways to give spells which acted as tools that the players could find their own ways to utilize.

[ember gate]

Which makes sense since tabletop roleplaying gams is the most free a game can be

[tacit tiger]

yeah, that's fair.

[ember gate]

Being able to make portals to traverse the map would be SO COOL tho

[tacit tiger]

I do think opening up creative ways to navigate the world can be a way to allow people to track and engage fights just as much as it can be a way for people to avoid them

[ember gate]

Like WoW style Warlock could be perfect for this game if done right

[blissful mortar]

wizards could totally get different spells but balancing for pvp is going to be hard

[ember gate]

It should be hard to pull off though. Like, you need to put down an exit portal and an entry portal

[blissful mortar]

like if you gave them bound armor they would replace fighters

they already have invis and are invading rogues role on the game

[fair cape]

Fighters drawback is you really need armor

[ember gate]

What's ironic is this is basically what Dungeons and Dragons Wizard does lmao

[ember gate]

Not really. You mostly just need good weapons and support

[blissful mortar]

hahaha, its time to staph

fighter is weird, a good blocker is imposible to deal with

[fair cape]

with armor and a proper shield rather then buckler you are definitely 200pct more tanky

[blissful mortar]

but when i played it i died every time

[fair cape]

people underestimate blocking with a shield

[ember gate]

Like, I know Fighter's description says that they're equipment reliant but they're really not if you don't play them exclusively as a shield bot

[fair cape]

especially if you have counter attak

if im naked i cannot kill 2 barbs+fighter

[ember gate]

And even then, their base equipment is pretty nice

[blissful mortar]

playing barb against shield is straight horrible

slow attacks and you get stuned for a sec, cant follow up

[ember gate]

Like, naked Fighter is useless, but base equipment is definitely usable

And even better is if you can get some decent weaponry (just like, a white crossbow and a longsword if you're good)

[wind wolf]

Wish spell

[blissful mortar]

also, the fighter can use anything he finds, so he needs less looting to be usefull

[wind wolf]

Yall know that one?

[blissful mortar]

thats definetly annoying, playing barb everything you see is marked red

[ember gate]

If he has weapon master, which is a big if now that it's nerfed

But even without it he has a ton of weapon variety

[winged girder]

Best class I did fresh on was a basic geared rogue. With rupture weak point and poisoned daggers at level 1. You could delete people even with shitty grey item. Soon as I got a green dagger I was melting

[blissful mortar]

hardly even, he can use basically any melee apart from rogues or barb extremely small selection if im not mistaken

[ember gate]

True, though he lacks in ranged options

Generally you pick weapon master to grab a longbow or a windlass

[blissful mortar]

yeah, of course

but he isnt the only one withtout range anyways

[ember gate]

But yeah, Fighter is really solid

[winged girder]

Fighter should use a xbow. My friend who mained fighter once was geared could chest one tap wizards rogues and rangers. And take a beating to boot

[ember gate]

Agreed, Xbow is really good

[blissful mortar]

i feel like any weapon should be able to have a small parry frame with a long as cooldown

[ember gate]

Just basic xbow is a fantastic weapon

[ember gate]

Devs have said they don't wanna do that, which makes sense imo. How the hell do you parry with a hatchet?

[tacit tiger]

There's a plethora of not-directly combat abilities which can be useful for pvp still.

Like clairvoyance/divination for being able to get a sense of direction towards enemies, or an idea of what kind of items/stats/abilities an enemy has, or being able to detect hidden foes, all of these are combat-adjacent things which can allow players to use magic in creative ways that aren't just "I want to do damage to that person/area"

Or creation magic for making weapons/tools on the fly based on what your scenario demands. Need a long spear for your barb to be able to poke someone at range? or a bow for your cleric so he can join your archer on an impromptu ambush he hadn't been equipped for... or a replacement dagger for the rogue who broke/lost his last one. All of them would be weaker variants than what could ideally be carried, but the flexibility opens up a lot of neat options for planning.

Or illusion magic to set up ambushes with fake treasure, or a fake locked door which players may waste time trying to open, or a fake NPC to either scare them away from an area if it's powerful or lure them in as weaker bait.

and for game balance I understand that not all of these should/would be directly added to wizard as is
||I think ideally a system where wizards have to focus on one "school/type" of magic, at least primarily, similar to how d&d works, might be a way to technically have all of these available to one class, while still requiring each player/character to pick a speciality. Sort of like sub-classes where you either get buffs to spells of your sub-type, or nerfs to spells of other types. Effectively a similar balancing mechanism to how colors work in MTG, where two good options can coexist and "theoretically" be puttable into the same deck, but realistically the costs for both would make the deck very bad overall if done so.||

[ember gate]

Or a boook?

[winged girder]

Even on ranger I used to run longbow then xbow for memes. But is it a meme when it was actually effective

[blissful mortar]

makes sense, but also the bardiche can fully block but the 2 hand axes cant

[winged girder]

"boys the ranger needs to reload push him" for them to turn the corner to eat a xbow headshot haha

[ember gate]

yes, double xbow is the best though

or like, havng a windlass on you

[blissful mortar]

even tho i think ranger aint too strong, beartraps are insane

[ember gate]

windlass is hilarious when you can surprise people

[blissful mortar]

you are out of luck if you step on one

[winged girder]

Is windlass the one with the MEGA long reload time

[tacit tiger]

is this like dual wielding two bows at once, or having two loaded bows with one equipped and switching to the other instead of reloading? :o

[ember gate]

Oh definitely. I'd love to have clairvoyance

[ember gate]

Basically

You can't dual wield tho

[tacit tiger]

Oh, ahah.
Was just wondering because both options are viable in Dungeons and Dragons xD

[ember gate]

You can skip reloading by switching weapons, however, which is surprisingly effective, especially when you have multishot for close engagements

[blissful mortar]

you need to fill your quiver (balance so you dont endlessly spam) but each bow has its own quiver

[ember gate]

well akshually

[hoary lichen]

barbarian with no gear is broken

[ember gate]

you can't dual wield crossbows because of the ammunishion property

snort

[blissful mortar]

i wouldnt say broken, he is solid

[hoary lichen]

u can 1v3 easily

[blissful mortar]

if you 1vs3 them they fucked up

[ember gate]

against dumbasses, yeah

[hoary lichen]

u os everyone and u have 150 hp

[tacit tiger]

not sure about 5e, I don't play it as much, I know you can in pathfinder though.
:p

ahaha

[blissful mortar]

slowest, loudest, most avoidable class

the only way to rush a kill is the felling axe

[ember gate]

to be fair, it's faster than Cleric with rage

[hoary lichen]

it's not the slowest when u have gear

[ember gate]

then you're not naked, are you?

[blissful mortar]

you literally said naked

LOL

base axe is ass too

[ember gate]

but yeah, barbarian with a good felling axe and rings can definitely clean house

[hoary lichen]

yes but i tought u were saying generally it's the slowest

[blissful mortar]

barb geard with felling is cheesy as shit

[ember gate]

felling axe is overall just ridiculous

[hoary lichen]

i dont love felling actually

[blissful mortar]

i feel like it should have 1 handed range

[ember gate]

the range is short on it but it deletes things

[hoary lichen]

did ur guys tried 2 one handed axe build

[blissful mortar]

but animations already suck when chasing

[blissful mortar]

felt horrible

[ember gate]

dual-wielding on any class except Rogue feels terrible

[blissful mortar]

dps is overall weaker than burst, so you need marginally more dps to compete

attacks on dual should be individual from one another, if 1 gets blocked, all get stoped

[ember gate]

Felling axe > dual-wielding any day of the week, does more attacks anyway

[winged girder]

Duel wield on rogue with the 6 hit animation was so borked

[hoary lichen]

idk i tried with good gear and it felt rly nice

[blissful mortar]

also, felling has like a 0.8 windup and horsemen has 0.7

barb is also super strong and noobstompy

not saying its bad, it just feels worse

tried braking stuf with horsemen?

hahah good luck

[ember gate]

barb is a great pubstomper and great at clearing rooms, I remember seeing a barb strat win the christmas tournament

[hoary lichen]

but when u have 2 axes

[winged girder]

I tried barb for 10 games and I just didn't like the mspeed penalty on the swings. Felt like I could be cheesed a lot in melee v melee. But again I didn't play it a lot to learn the nuances of barb play

[hoary lichen]

do u stack the stats ?

like true damage and stuff

[blissful mortar]

u stack the slow, and any stats form greens+

so you are slower with both, whites are worthless

also the secondary axe is worthless

(in comparison to horsemen)

[ember gate]

In the Christmas tournament, the goal was to queue into games and get as many kills as possible as a team. The winning composition was Wizard, Cleric, Barbarian. I watched it and the whole game was literally Wizard using Haste on the Barb and watching him run shit over

[static fractal]

Barbarian is really good

[hoary lichen]

i had a problem with felling axe too

[static fractal]

Even without felling axe

[blissful mortar]

barb needs to commit, you dont have basically any of the choices other classes have, but you get the strongest hard engage

[hoary lichen]

if you're against a rogue

[ember gate]

Barbarian is really good once you can close the distance and get hits in, but he's easy to counter

Especially if he doesn't get buffs

[blissful mortar]

the bardiche is literally insane

[ember gate]

Most classes are a lot like that, where you can outplay them, but if you don't, you're getting rolled

[blissful mortar]

it basically feels any whole the barb has

[hoary lichen]

rogue can litteraly dodge every attacks against double handed weapon

[ember gate]

barb can fill my holes

[blissful mortar]

mine cant, she female

[hoary lichen]

u attack he wait the animation then attack u

[ember gate]

mommy?

sorry

[tacit tiger]

I'm curious, one of the things I've found in most other pvp games like this is that whichever player is faster/more-mobile has the "fight selection" option of just noping out if it would be a fight they'd lose. Effectively making a death just a mistake in not judging the outcome well enough to decide to run. Is there any in game system for helping slower classes force a fight against someone who knows their best option is to just run away?

[blissful mortar]

you have to play with that in mind, im also learing that in mordhau

[ember gate]

The circle helps

And the way extraction works with the portals

[hoary lichen]

but in mordhau

u can accell attacks

[ember gate]

But overall, it's still the same problem, speed is king in Dark and Darker, like every video game ever

[blissful mortar]

agility rigs how fast you interact with doors, rogue and ranger are the fastest, but warrior has haste, wizzard has haste and fireballs(explodes door), barb cant take smash to chop doors

cleric is really bad at chasing but he is a support and also has the only slow on the game

[ember gate]

Fighter doesn't have haste

[hoary lichen]

smash is shit

[ember gate]

Sprint doesn't help interaction speed

[hoary lichen]

you should never take smash

[blissful mortar]

you really arent playing barb right are you

[hoary lichen]

i'm

[ember gate]

And smash is really good, until you go into the deeper levels

[hoary lichen]

but compared to others perks

smash is funny

[ember gate]

In the deeper levels, smash literally can't break anything

[hoary lichen]

but not good

[tacit tiger]

Ahh that makes sense. Though I was still hoping to hear some attempt at a solution to the "speed is king" point. Like some slower classes getting CC options to help slow their opponent down, or options to outright blockade an escape route, or just tether an opponent to a limited space during a duel.

[ember gate]

But in the higher levels, smash is great for closing the distance and quickly traversing the map

[blissful mortar]

smash is not made to rush inferno, but there will be 2 whole levels with wood doors on realease

[hoary lichen]

problem is

[blissful mortar]

yeah but people cant close doors if you are melee, that what i meant by that

[hoary lichen]

if you're in group

[ember gate]

The other perks can be nice, though, but you can usually squeeze Smash in

[tacit tiger]

What's the max group/party size?

[blissful mortar]

i rush 3 damage + smash

[ember gate]

If you're in a group you can still smash doors faster than any class can open them, assuming it's wood

[blissful mortar]

you can rush whole teams even withtout 100 mr

[hoary lichen]

yeah

but 100 mr

[blissful mortar]

3

[hoary lichen]

is broken

[blissful mortar]

not really, its 30%

its solid

great even

[ember gate]

I easily murder barbarians who have 100 mr as Wizard

[blissful mortar]

but not op

[hoary lichen]

bro if you dont have this 100 mr

against a good wizard

u insta die

[ember gate]

with good gear, you can even one-shot them with fireball

[blissful mortar]

the only perk i wish i could spare for smash is the heal on kill

[hoary lichen]

it's not even close

wizard is broken

[ember gate]

u insta die regardless tbh

[blissful mortar]

dying to wizards?, felling to the face

10 flat damage +5% damage 2 handed, +strenght naked chest

[ember gate]

barbarian versus wizard, wizard wins 9/10 unless you get the jump on him or you have a Cleric to buff you

You can throw axes to poke at him too, but those are really hard to hit

[blissful mortar]

that why burst is better than dps, you get the jump they dont cast anything

[hoary lichen]

yeah

but if you're solo

[blissful mortar]

you need to ambush them, for sure

[hoary lichen]

just avoid wizards and rangers

[blissful mortar]

if you have smash you can run indefinetly

search for a better situation

[ember gate]

best advice right here, just farm the rogues

[winged girder]

Rangers wizards work so well against melee cus they can dictate the pace of engagement 75% of the time/ delete people In a small time frame from distance

[blissful mortar]

you seem to not count how much time you loose interacting with doors as barb

it takes like 5 seconds each

if not more

[hoary lichen]

yes but i put more value on stats

[ember gate]

and that's your preference.

[blissful mortar]

not to worry, barb is overstated as hell already

[winged girder]

• all attribs on all your pieced and you'll open door faster than any rogue even on wizard

[blissful mortar]

we are talking about mostly naked balance tho

geared everything is op

[winged girder]

Ah my bad I'm at work catching only part of the conversation. Apologies

[blissful mortar]

np bro

im awake at 5 am local thinking about this stinky closed game 😫

feels bad

[winged girder]

Yeah it sucks. Games really lose flavour after a dnd playtest

[hoary lichen]

it's fine

[blissful mortar]

yeah i hadnt have so much fun in a long time

[hoary lichen]

you just have

to not die in real life

[ember gate]

100% naked balance? goes like cleric > barbarian > rogue > wizard > ranger > fighter

[blissful mortar]

its going to be a rough one

[ember gate]

actually

[blissful mortar]

disagree

wizzard ranger and rogue are bottom tier for me

[hoary lichen]

i agree for rogue

rogue no gear lvl 1

[winged girder]

Feel like rogue has one. The strongest naked game. Are we playing with max perks naked or level 1 naked

[ember gate]

actually, I think you're right

[hoary lichen]

is so shit

[blissful mortar]

max perk naked

rogue needs like 8 stabs to kill meles and dies on 1 hit

[glacial saffron]

naked rogue has some if not the worst stats its sad

[hoary lichen]

oh if it's max perks it's fine i guess but not solo

[winged girder]

I think rogue is top tier then for naked in pvp. Not for pve

[blissful mortar]

blue daggers are literally the best you can get

[hoary lichen]

ye for pve it's so shit

[blissful mortar]

anything not barb on pve feels horrible tbh

also anything with shield pvp naked gets a plus

[hoary lichen]

i would put barbarian rank 1 no gear max perks anyway

[blissful mortar]

i would go warrior first, being the first encounter and dealing with a 150% effective hp warrior with a white bow can fuck you up

thats not TRUE naked but still

15g for a bow is nothing

but maybe i overvalue blocking because i am a barb main

[hoary lichen]

i think u overvalue blocking

[blissful mortar]

and i undervalue low hp because i oneshot everyone low enouhg

[hoary lichen]

blocking is so shit for me

[winged girder]

Idk man a fighter who knows what angles to block swings properly is incredibly dangerous too

[blissful mortar]

even then, there is no cd to blocking, no downside

also he gets bonus damage for blocking

[winged girder]

And attack speed right

[blissful mortar]

perk*

[glacial saffron]

against a good rogue is just gonna go for feet and jump headshot them

[hoary lichen]

even if he blocks u

u can just run back

and go in again

[blissful mortar]

then you are stuck in neutral

thats not really a good thing

[winged girder]

Why block a rogue when he dies in 2 hits from a falchion :> and falchion has a very forgiving swing arc allowing for some cheesy swing camera hits

[blissful mortar]

its at best decent, at worst a death sentence

[hoary lichen]

i mean u can legit attack

After the block

[wispy parcel]

naked wizard and ranger makes sense since you want to maximize distance

[blissful mortar]

also, aoe attacks get negged by a single block

[hoary lichen]

they should buff blocking

attacks

[wispy parcel]

rogue already has ways of getting into and out of fights with their invis

[glacial saffron]

truee actually. i main rogue and the fighters always block me. might just be they are new and havent had many encounters against rogue. But to be fair with the right blue set of armor rogue can literally 1-2 shot fighters too

[wispy parcel]

and makes it harder to sneak seeing some pale guy unless its a skele

[blissful mortar]

naked rogue is literally a sheet of paper

[winged girder]

Yeah your not wrong either. Dictating how a fight starts is key to winning also.

[blissful mortar]

so many rogues get confident stabbing 5 or 6 times just to get 1 tap

[wispy parcel]

rogue also relies the most on gear because they need that bonus damage gear

[winged girder]

I liked to play rogue as a hit and run bleeder. Worked insanely well until you get a fighter or barb hasted then you can't kite them anymore haha

[hoary lichen]

did ur guys tried max health on rogue

[blissful mortar]

also i havent seen a single rogue use their bleed and poison to their real use, they use it as extra dp

[glacial saffron]

truee xD well against good geared players i dont think ive ever been killed one shot by other nakeds

[blissful mortar]

you can just walk away and let them die most of the time

[hoary lichen]

i had 130 hp on my rogue

[wispy parcel]

not against barb

[hoary lichen]

it was funny

it's like i'm tanking but os everyone

[blissful mortar]

feling axe barb is a cheesy noobstomper against any of the 4 squishy classes

[winged girder]

All classes are noobstompers against bad players haha

[blissful mortar]

cleric judgment is also cheesy as all fucking hell lmao

[glacial saffron]

for sure, but the amount of noobs compared to good players are actually crazy. i figure things are going to be a fair bit different when game gets to early access

[blissful mortar]

some definetly need a lot more work tbf

like a rogue cant onetap someone on naked to naked combat

[glacial saffron]

@winged girder what is troubadour rank for?

[blissful mortar]

rangers usually need beartraps

[winged girder]

Content creater

[glacial saffron]

yeah rogue starter gear is so terrible its crazy

[blissful mortar]

barb (my beloved) just bombrushes you and i you are not prepared be ready to fall swiftly

[ember gate]

I love Fighter overall, though, the variety of weapons is great

[blissful mortar]

fighter seems so damn good

geared or not i think he is top tier

[ember gate]

Even without Weapon Mastery there's so much variety and skill expression

And you almost always find usable gear in the dungeon even if you come in with nothing

[winged girder]

I personally just streamed and don't make videos. I'd say check my vods but I didn't publish any cus of copyright music. ( plus it would just cause cries of ranger/wizard being op haha)

[blissful mortar]

every pekr feels nice, the spells are significant, most weapon variety

[glacial saffron]

for sure i just hope they will make the blocking a bit more responsive. i swear a shit ton of the times it feels and looks like you would block the hit just to get smacked in the head

[glacial saffron]

xD

[ember gate]

Like, I can't remember the last time I didn't find a falchion or a good arming sword/horseman's on a run as Fighter

[blissful mortar]

i think the 1st person pov is badly representing the actual position of the shield, with practice blocking is really hard to penetrate

[ember gate]

and if you find a good polearm or a crossbow? Sheeeesh

[blissful mortar]

like you can usually aim almost at the ceiling and block ANY overhead

[ember gate]

Exactly

[winged girder]

I much preferred this. Playestst progression over the last one. Last playtest was so easy to get purples it didn't feel like they were 'good gear' whereas a full set of good purples this playtest was hard. Work

[blissful mortar]

i once got shot through the small ass window of a door with a crossbow, not fun

[glacial saffron]

100%. for sure with practice you can figure it out but i feel like it doesnt feel great to block atm a bit clunky

[ember gate]

It's 100% working as intended, it's just unintuitive from first person. From the outside it works perfect

[ember gate]

I also love spears for funny things along those lines :)

[blissful mortar]

yeah, the feedback you get is the main issue

[glacial saffron]

100%

they just need to fix the perspective a bit

[blissful mortar]

i legit feel thatif the first person arm was futher away it would represent it perfectly

[winged girder]

Yeah and make red skelly overhand actually hit your shield. I remember tryna block. Looking at the sky and it. Would still juts go. Through my shield haha

Make the sound of a block but I'd still take a fat headshot

[blissful mortar]

now you can block your entire view and your 3rd person head is still exposed

[glacial saffron]

was my exact thought xD

[ember gate]

that's also intended for some things iirc

[blissful mortar]

if it was further you would think "hey, im not blocking my body, im blocking in front, i need to aim acordingly"

[ember gate]

and either way for a red skelly you're better off just dodging out of range

[blissful mortar]

intended, blocks aoe damage but your head got tapped midway

[winged girder]

Yeah I end up just dodging all attacks cus full hp > less hp haha

[blissful mortar]

also, pve hitboxes are really badly represented by animations

you can block an animation directly and it goes through, sometimes it hits you and sometimes it doesnt even hit you

a ghost attack

[winged girder]

Also remove ranger heal personally. It offsets a Lot of costs in meds. Which means u can spend more in grade and get a huge kit much quicker than most classes/groups without a cleric

[ember gate]

blocking players is great, blocking pve is really weird

[blissful mortar]

something i feel is that the +buff duration stuff is ass, like, 0,6 on my 5 second buff, gee thanks game

[winged girder]

Didn't they fix the % rolls towards the end

[blissful mortar]

0,6%""""

[ember gate]

Means a lot with some buffs, can mean an extra tick of second wind or smth

[blissful mortar]

i guess, but speed and damage buff get basically no value

[ember gate]

but like, what does .6% extra cast speed mean, either?

[blissful mortar]

maybe we need diferent tags

like restoration being diferent from statbuffs

0.7% of a 5 sec buff could very much be nothing and no one would notice i think LOL

[winged girder]

Problem I saw with the new % rolls. Was magic damage +5% with added magical damage. It was like having 3 items worth of. Damage in one

[blissful mortar]

the percent damage ones are insane

5% two handed damage perk on barb is a must

[winged girder]

Then when you got. A few pieces like that. You went from average to SSS tier rapid

The power creep is a bit much for. Some classes. But I'm not sure. How you'd balance it

[blissful mortar]

overall barb can stack so much naked damage its actually funny

LOL

my friend mains rogue and i straight told him to stay away from any barb

[glacial saffron]

i think it depends on how much damage your weapon has. Rogue for example im pretty sure just gets more damage by getting +5 weapon damage because it has such low stats and hits faster

[blissful mortar]

barb should definetly just get flat increases

[glacial saffron]

yeah barb needs %+

[blissful mortar]

the bardiche 2taps skeletons on white rarity

noo, barb abuses the hell out of them

it gets cheesy really quickly

[slate willow]

Barb with a faster axe is fun against rogues. Rogues are always trying to bait the big dumb Barb into attacking

[winged girder]

+weapon damage was god tier on all melee.

[blissful mortar]

like your 70 damage weapon now 1 taps mages and rogues

[winged girder]

Cus the % scales off your weapon damage. So higher base means higher % scaling = even more busted

[blissful mortar]

barb also has a 10+ flat damage and its nowhere near as op as the 5% one i believe

but of course, 10+ flat on one handed axes, its another story

[winged girder]

Bonus damage is added after not calculated before I believe. Not sure what the tool tip said for barb tho

[blissful mortar]

10 weapon damage on any axe

[winged girder]

It was hard to test when you got 7 seconds in a lobby to get to the dummy

Oh shit that's neat

[blissful mortar]

DAMN i HATED THAT SO MUCH

[dry creek]

Man, i was poppin off with the dual wield barb

[blissful mortar]

let me just stay god dangit

the game was hardcore living the playerbase dream

[glacial saffron]

holy

weapon damage is legit just better than +% damage didnt think so

[slate willow]

It's funny how many, including us and me are all like "man... wish the match wouldn't load so damn fast!"

[blissful mortar]

barb can also stack both of them for free

[glacial saffron]

a barb with 70 weapon damage gets only 3.5 extra damage with +5% extra damage so its -1.5

[winged girder]

For faster weapons weapon damage is for sure best. For 2hs there will probs be a breakpoint where % will give more than flat

[blissful mortar]

and also damage from being naked, and damage from being low hp

cheesy as hell

[glacial saffron]

well you have to get above 100 weapon damage for it to be better

[blissful mortar]

i wanted it, but the felling was so busted lol

blue felling with agility was a carnage

[glacial saffron]

now the calculations might be a bit more tricky when you count perks and abilities in

[blissful mortar]

then i died to traps because im ass

[winged girder]

Not entirely true. You need to factor in armor reduction. Armor pen. Bonus damage. Are you getting buffed by your team

Also headshot. Multiplier would make % damage even more viable for one shots than flat damage. Cus you've got 2 multipliers affecting it then

[blissful mortar]

overall percentage scales better with 2handed and flat with 1handed

[dry creek]

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTrrrrrruuuueeeee.
Dual Wield was very forgiving if you miss an attack tho, high attack speed. Loved it.

[blissful mortar]

then the numbers get it

[winged girder]

Also appreciate the debate guys. Probs one of the few debates I've seen not turn toxic within 5 minutes haha

[glacial saffron]

well armor reduction and armor pen gets added after you hit so its your total damage / by armor reduction so it should be the same calculation. With bonus damage and such that should also buff your weapon damage so i feel that should be the same too

[blissful mortar]

100 flat is obviously better than 10% damage, but thats a different story

[blissful mortar]

fuck rangers

bich ahh class

[winged girder]

Ruh oh

You must be one of the many barbs who died to my shotgun shot instantly haha 😉

[blissful mortar]

funilly enough i neven came across a shot gun

[winged girder]

That things was so busted for people who wanted to face rush you

[blissful mortar]

people get too baited into the attackspeed triple shot

even tho is mega hard to hit

honestly its a whole noobtrap

[winged girder]

I loved the triple shot tbf. Once you've got 100 hours with it. It didn't feel that bad to land

[blissful mortar]

100 hours bru

HAHAHA

lowest skill ceiling

[winged girder]

I've got 200 in total. Probs 150 of them on ranger xad

[blissful mortar]

dang holy shit

i got 18 im tripping for a whole month until february

barely got 2 classes maxed

didnt even play wiz

nor rogue

[winged girder]

Ah yeah. I'm fiending for more and I've played a lot haha

[glacial saffron]

dude im just stoked to fuck some people up and get a ton of highlights xD

[winged girder]

Overall the game is just very enjoyable. I see a lot of complaints about player speed is slow. But I think it's really fitting

[blissful mortar]

also im really blueballed because the last night i was making gold to go balling with my friends

then the servers closed

[glacial saffron]

especially if they add proximity chat ill love that

[glacial saffron]

people think (me encluded before i played) that combat feels slow and boring, while it is super intense and fun

[blissful mortar]

i mean, watching gameplay must be boring as all hell

but this game gets your heart racing

one mistake and you are done

i described it to my friends as "really slow combat that ends really quickly"

[winged girder]

That or crouch jump over some obstacles and leave them boys swinging for dust particles. I've got out some sticky situations with a few well timed crouch jumps

[blissful mortar]

hahahha

i rarely get to do that as low geared barb

its a rough one being this slow

also, i wish the damage numbers from the dummies where in match too

[winged girder]

You can climb the ladder in library to get on top of the bookshelves. The amount of unaware people is mad. I'd love to see a barb up there jump down for the 2h crush to the face. Would make some. Epic clips

[blissful mortar]

its really weird that they coded them in and didnt add it into combat

[glacial saffron]

agree, but some people would way rather have immersion over pvp. i feel like they could do this and just have a toggle for it

[astral seal]

It would give away too much information on how low someone is on hps

[blissful mortar]

people never look up and parkour is insane in this game

[winged girder]

Just add damage number to. Low. Roller and not on high roller

[glacial saffron]

well you kinda know it already when you have played a bit you get a very good feeling of how low they are

[winged girder]

Normal lobbies were 90% pubstomping with a good team

[blissful mortar]

i mean, if you play dnd and never know how much damage you deal, its pretty hard to make decisions

[blissful mortar]

yeah but it was definetly not noob friendly about that, specially since you hardly ever get to actually hit those damn dummies

[glacial saffron]

truee

[blissful mortar]

i swear it took 10 matches to actually realize those spawn points where the same building

[glacial saffron]

well with me on good gear i know i 1-3 hit people so my feeling of how low they are are so close it almost doesnt matter

[blissful mortar]

yeah, but its definetly a bigger issue with rangers, rogues and mages

[glacial saffron]

true that yeah

[blissful mortar]

like 1 cm can barely be seen but it can mean a bodyshot or headshot

what is it then?

a crit for double or a regular?

[winged girder]

Yeah I felt the same on ranger. Wizards would die 1 shot most of the time. Rogues rangers were 1 hit and classed as low sometimes 2. Fighters were 2 and low and barbs it was sometimes all over the place haha

[blissful mortar]

barbs can get up to 200 hp

for a limited time

it can be anywhere from 3 to 5 shots at least

[winged girder]

Barbs and fighters with clerics were the only team I didn't push really haha

[blissful mortar]

maybe more depending on crits

[glacial saffron]

rogue can hit for 220+ damage with one hit xD but that is like with some crazy gear not bis though and its without the armor reduction

[blissful mortar]

yeah but im talking about nakey barb

it has like 149 base plus shout

barb is a really good statchecker, you really need to outplay them

usualy a single beartrap is enough funnily enough

not the smartest of players, just rushing every room

[winged girder]

Rangers should only get 1 trap in their start kit

[blissful mortar]

https://rankedboost.com/dark-and-darker/axe/

horsemen is ass, i stand my case

felling is insanely broken

[winged girder]

I kept seeing rangers in high roller with 10+ traps. To easy to take them off the free kit go into lobby disconnect and another 3 traps

[blissful mortar]

DAMN that is cringe as fuck

they shoudl despawn

cleric can just duplicate grey bandages?

[winged girder]

Any class with stuff like that yes

[glacial saffron]

holy

[blissful mortar]

a 20km radius blocked by traps LO

LOL

[glacial saffron]

cleric spawns with bandages? tha fuck

[blissful mortar]

1 8hp bandage

its pretty trash

[glacial saffron]

whaaat

oh 8 hp thought you said 18

[blissful mortar]

like 10% hhp

[astral seal]

The one part of the game I think they really need to spend a lot of time evaluating is the itemization. Stacking certain bonuses (specifically +flat magic/phys damage) in every slot warps the game too much. I think they need to either at a soft cap/hard cap on the flat damage bonuses or remove them entirely.

An 11 damage magic missile (which is 1 of 10) isn't that dangerous, but you can have a geared Wizard that pushes that up to 56 damage each (only from flat damage increases, it can be even higher with other stats from items) it becomes absolutely insane

[blissful mortar]

one skelly deals like 50% LOL

[winged girder]

It's funny too cus you can do the same with campfires which inherently have a 3 gold value. You could farm some gold buy a longbow before you even delve your first dungeon and absolutely roll

[winged girder]

56 is low. My wizard at peak had a 101 per magic missile Hit

[blissful mortar]

LOL its insane, i always wondered why the axes i threw away didnt despawn to clear inventory but that is actually insane

[blissful mortar]

balance is really of now, but even then the game is extremely enjoyable so it cant be too wrong

[astral seal]

Are you talking about headshot on a dummy I assume?

[winged girder]

Yeah

But I could kill. My rogue team mate in 2 hits of my magic missile cus of the mad stacked damage I had

[blissful mortar]

its like league of legends, when people where trashcans the balance wasnt as important, as people got better now balance is a fine tuned machine that gets easily broken

[astral seal]

That's because of the damage bonus on headshots, and the extra damage from stats like I mentioned weren't part of the numbers I stated =p .

[blissful mortar]

the game is in a sadly closed alpha afterall

[astral seal]

I agree that balance will come with time but the flat damage bonus is something that sticks out as a major balance issue and I can see why it would have been overlooked by playtesters / devs

[winged girder]

I think it's more like you stated before tho. The added values on gear are so easy to stack into oblivion

[blissful mortar]

flat damage bonus is bonkers, %buffs are crap

its a weird spot

[astral seal]

Until you have a huge population of people playing it is probably difficult to acquire / think of some of the gear sets taht would be op

[blissful mortar]

+atrb is bonkers, equipspeed is crap

even as a concept equipspeed has low numbers, like a purple giving 1% equip is such a sad thing to see

[winged girder]

Yeah I'd say + attribs is probably the most busted stat there is

[glacial saffron]

You could in theory get 10 pieces of gear, weapons (dual wield) and jewelry that gives +%physical +weapon damage, +strength, +all atributes and one shot with a torch i would assume xD

[blissful mortar]

that would be actually funny

one punhc man overhere

[glacial saffron]

xD

[astral seal]

@glacial saffron Well weapon bonuses wouldn't count if you were using a torch =p

[blissful mortar]

i heard you were running your mouth

[winged girder]

Clerics can already one punch people

[glacial saffron]

Then again even one of those pieces would cost 5k+

[glacial saffron]

true

[blissful mortar]

maybe if damage increases were extremely rare they could be balanced with todays numbres

but now you can stack damage on like 4 runs and your 5 is a complete fiesta

[winged girder]

The unique tier gear seemed incredibly shit. Didn't see one good rolled piece.

[blissful mortar]

+5 strenght it is

naisu

[astral seal]

Speaking about flat damage bonuses, you can even double dip by having +magic and + phys damage on the same item and then either have wizard ignite / cleric divine strike and then the damage bonus goes from +45 to + 90 lol

[blissful mortar]

ive only seen people play with the dagger and its the most busted thing

people legit thought they were hacks

[glacial saffron]

well they have said that the current rate of getting stuff is extremely bumped up so people can test the game. i would assume getting a full gear set would take a decent bit and at that point i dont feel the insane nature of it is unwarrented.

[wet mantle]

[winged girder]

Unique weapons are good cus of high base. Still had shit rolls for the ones I saw myself

[thorn dagger]

Would like for the rolls to be curated a bit more per weapon and class.

[blissful mortar]

yeah

definetly feel like rolls should be less broken but more interesting

[winged girder]

I think the roll system is fine. Having them tailored to your class means it's even easier to get to these absurd builds

[glacial saffron]

a good blue is many times better than purple most of the times

[thorn dagger]

Like on god why is Plate allowed to roll for Spell Capacity

[astral seal]

that would be kind of nice, would also be nice for the class specific armor

[thorn dagger]

Also could balance the rolls per weapon too

[glacial saffron]

truee melee classes getting +magical is just sad

[blissful mortar]

like there is no lifesteal? no elemental damage? no holy damage to kill monsters on rolls?

[astral seal]

lifesteal would be op

[blissful mortar]

the buffs from epics and shit just get better stats, its frankly boring

[celest mural]

The more possible modifiers on a weapon the more likely atleast one of them is shit

[glacial saffron]

well they could just have the chance to get purples reduced a bit to counter it

[winged girder]

Didn't they say they might add scrolls/wands that all can use. Magic damage may still be useful

[blissful mortar]

comes down to numbers, 0.5% lifesteal would hardly be broken

[winged girder]

Yeah I hear that. But I didn't see any uniques with 3 good rolls. Just useless stuff. Then I've got a blue leggings +5magucsl power +5% magic damage. There's no incentive to use a unique over that

[thorn dagger]

Theoretically but remember the +magic damage sword only has an effect when you pull it out so it'd not affect scrolls

[blissful mortar]

even then, getting +5hp from lifesteal is not more broken than gettin 5 flat hp from strenght, but is infinitely more fun than a flat stat increase

[thorn dagger]

Also yeah some Unique/Legendary only Modifiers would be awesome

[winged girder]

Didn't I reply to question about plate having magical damage which would affect it cus your wearing it always. You are right with weapons tho

[astral seal]

I just think it's either meaningless or busted, I don't see there being a middle ground. And I don't even think it would so much be a busted thing for PvP, I think it would be more busted because of the "free" healing you would be able to get from mobs. They generally have a lot more hps than players and are just free hits. So if you had life steal the sustain would just be through the roof for people

[celest mural]

Could be fixed by giving unique two guaranteed modifiers

[blissful mortar]

i dont agree it would be meaningless, it adds layers to combat to make it less stat checky

lifesteal has inherent value on "hit without getting hit back" situations

flat hp means you wanna trade blows, like tank barbs

[astral seal]

I said it would be OP or meaningless, there would be no middle group.

[thorn dagger]

Lifesteal would be a lot less busted if it was Lifesteal on Player Kill like that Barbarian skill

Lifesteal on hit seems a bit too crazy

[blissful mortar]

you can do a lot of stuff

non pve lifesteal can easily be programed

[winged girder]

If lifesteal was say 1 hp per hit. I don't think it'd be bad. Also would be nice to heal up some lost hp clearing a room

And make it melee only

[blissful mortar]

pve lifesteal could be fixed by making monsters have diferent hp and armors

[astral seal]

That would make sustain way way too easy for decent players

[blissful mortar]

it would also mean armor pen skills would work on pve

sustain is really easy for decent players

like, you can buy a whole inventory of potions without restrinctions

[astral seal]

Yeah but that takes resources and time doing different things

That are trade offs, compared to free hps from clearing a room

[winged girder]

Decent players shouldnt be taking hits from pve anyways. If you put it like that

[blissful mortar]

also getting a good weapon with lifesteal

[thorn dagger]

But yeah I think the balance should be that Legendary and Higher Grade Gear just has extra abilities that aren't straight stat increases but more like addons.

[blissful mortar]

i wanna see some slows too

[astral seal]

That's exactly what I am saying, players would be able take some hits from PvP and then just easily heal up off a room

[blissful mortar]

bro, i have never seen a good player not recover from 1 hp

they come in strapped

9 potions campfires

[glacial saffron]

i feel like they could add named drops from bosses like a special weapon that only drops from the lich in highroller or something would be sick

[blissful mortar]

it takes like 1 run to get that

[thorn dagger]

I think an important balance is that you can still go against a suped up Legendary 3 man with basic gear and not feel like it's a titanic impossibility

[winged girder]

Personally I don't see a problem. It would mean the less better players arnt always gonna be a shit stick with meds and stuff etc. If it means 10 people in my. Lobby don't die to Pve before I kill them I'm all for it :p

[blissful mortar]

i would rather them having lifesteal with a chance to rob them than them coming in with an inventory of sustain

[astral seal]

And? It takes time and resources to use those things compared to doing what they were already likely going to need to kill anyway

[blissful mortar]

it also takes time to get a good weapon, thats a non argument

[astral seal]

....

[blissful mortar]

it just adds more layers to combat to make it more skillbased

[astral seal]

I am talking about using time during a match

ffs you are dense im done

[thorn dagger]

The issue with Tarkov and Cycle is that like if you miss the wipe you feel like there's no point in playing because you're gonna get your ass destroyed by Gigachads with armor that can absorb 7000 9mm

[blissful mortar]

be done then

[thorn dagger]

Unless you use Mosin but still

[cyan ibex]

Well thats a bit disingenuous I think. Some classes have very good ganking potential, and at times there's very little you can do even with juiced armour and good mechanical skill. If a juiced up ranger triple shot headshots you with a longbow, you are probably going to die, same with if a juiced wizard hits you with Chain lightning +something else. Tho for the most part, yes good players can recover from most situations.

[glacial saffron]

its not like you can have 30 gear sets in you storage like in the cycle so i feel it would be way different in dnd

[blissful mortar]

im not saying they survive every situation,im saying they recover from past situations

like, unless you are barb, all you need is a single camp

[cyan ibex]

oh if that's the case then yes lol, one camp or a few potions is all you really need

or for chad fighters 2nd wind is an easy get out of jail card

[blissful mortar]

and people come into matches with 1 or 2, + potions+ shield+ invis

[thorn dagger]

For now but that's probably gonna change, storage space is gonna be increased and I doubt they'll not add some sort of gold chest item so you don't have to fill half your inventory with gold

[winged girder]

Campfires felt very underwhelming this playtest. I'd much rather just chug a grey white pot and use a bandage

[blissful mortar]

like saying lifesteal would be broken because its safe sustain asumes no one can heal

[blissful mortar]

do you play solo?