Metroid

[winter saddle]

fortunately Ridley taught me how to deal with tiny weak points so I blasted through MP

[wet flint]

PSA: Wave 1 of NSO icons for Metroid Prime Remastered will get swapped out with wave 2 in about 20 hours, so get them while they're hot I guess.

[final horizon]

DARK SAMUS GIVES SAMUS CANCER IN METROID PRIME 3???????

[wet flint]

Yep

Space cancer

[final horizon]

what the hell

[wet flint]

In Prime 3, ||Dark Samus corrupts Samus and a few other bounty hunters with Dark Samus’ own phazon. The same method that Dark Samus uses on the Space Pirates as a whole to corrupt them, allowing Dark Samus to enslave their minds and make them work for her. The corruption grows over time and will either kill them or drive them into insanity, making them Dark Samus’ thralls.||

Prime 3 is pretty dark.

Although Prime 3 does violate the Metroid rule of isolation by having voices talk to Samus.

But that’s just a nitpick

I mean, Prime 2 is kinda messed up too.

Samus sees dead Federation soldiers come back to life as zombies, puppeteered by a transdimensional parasite.

[final horizon]

[wet flint]

On a somewhat different note… contemplating the story, I realize the end of Dread was super satisfying for more reasons than just “it’s fucking awesome.” It comes with significant emotional implications for Samus.

Samus’ story is actually weirdly tragic for a Nintendo character. She’s lost literally everyone she has ever cared for and in some ways her own life was taken from her. The ending moment in Dread ||where she and Raven Beak were dueling and Raven Beak just continues to insinuate that she’s his “daughter,” which… really given the circumstances is incredibly messed up. Her anger at that moment isn’t just about Raven Beak’s manipulations, it’s about everything she went through. Raven Beak was responsible for the massacre of the Thoha tribe, which makes him indirectly responsible for pretty much every event following that starting as far back as Metroid 1/Zero Mission. That anger is her rage for the pain of her lost comrades, Adam (who Raven Beak was impersonating), and unleashing the X upon the galaxy and all the pain and suffering all of that brought to her. It’s no wonder Samus, queen of casually destroying planets, just completely and utterly lost control at that point. Using the Metroid DNA to leech Raven Beak’s life force is a sort of poetic justice.||

[final horizon]

ye

[wet flint]

I realize this is trivially obvious to most, but I tend to be slow to digest things sometimes.

[winter saddle]

"rule of isolation"?

[wet flint]

It’s a game design choice that just about all Metroid games follow and is a key element of how they set up their atmosphere. It’s one that some indie Metroidvanias often miss. But it’s a design detail you’ll see discussed by game designers at GDC talks or on YouTube.

The 2D games have generally dark backgrounds with environments that are made to look (or be) hostile to you, with no allies or NPCs around, and with various hostile creatures just about everywhere. That’s a deliberate choice which is carefully crafted to give a sense of isolation to the player, to make you feel like you’re exploring an unknown world. It’s a pretty important element which helps to give Metroid its specific feel. It’s repeated in Prime 1 to great effect and generally holds in Prime 2.
Adding the Aurora Unit commentary to guide Samus throughout Prime 3 kinda breaks that a bit, though.

The map designs are thus influenced by this sense of isolation that Metroid wants to convey, but it’d probably be better to just demonstrate that than write it in text…

Yeah here we go. This guy has made a series of videos discussing this in-depth for the Metroid series and I think it makes the point rather well.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy445mOFNkd-npXnWEiXDISEvfzmO8yOJ

[wet flint]

Came across this weird Super Metroid mod for Zero Mission.

https://youtu.be/sKcGQCdFMLE

[winter saddle]

Oh! These take five
You could've left that out. :P

wow, I remember that energy tank

and I've played most of these games only 1-2 times each

[winter saddle]

pffff

I wonder if the ZM bugs could always cling that well and they were just never in a long enough hallway to get shinesparked

[pine galleon]

Loving Fusion more and more with each playthrough

Still having a real hard time figuring out how to get between the sectors once I’ve got Screw Attack

[scenic vault]

https://twitter.com/inkopolis/status/1639739088357011460

星空★lone (@inkopolis)

https://t.co/QJEdqqmbdD

Likes

2391

Retweets

705

Twitter · Mar 25, 2023, 9:20 PM

[final horizon]

lol

[runic pasture]

[final horizon]

really cool Samus redesign
https://twitter.com/arvalis/status/1646293552052461568?s=46

RJ Palmer (@arvalis)

I've always wanted to take a stab at doing a Samus redesign.

Likes

33163

Retweets

4699

Twitter · Apr 12, 2023, 11:25 PM

[final horizon]

https://twitter.com/arvalis/status/1647373693390311424?s=46

RJ Palmer (@arvalis)

I can't redesign Samus and not do Ridley as well.

Likes

1438

Retweets

211

Twitter · Apr 15, 2023, 10:57 PM

[final horizon]

https://youtu.be/Q6fceLfjB4s

[final horizon]

https://www.tumblr.com/zhjake/629007141805686784/what-if-fusion-suitbut-make-it-more-giger-y

[wet flint]

Noice

That works very well

[winter saddle]

makes sense, the premise of the Fusion suit is already Giger-adjacent

[final horizon]

downloading Metroid Prime cause im gonna try and finally actually play it

[wet flint]

Remastered, right?

[final horizon]

yee

[wet flint]

[final horizon]

i just got into the mood for Metroid idk

honestly it's a tossup between playing Prime or Fusion for the first time, or replaying Dread

[wet flint]

Well, if you want more horror, Fusion is the way to go

[final horizon]

oh yeah that one is scary ive heard

i really like the Fusion suit a whole lot

[opal anvil]

Last month recently

I FINALLY got to play my first Metroid Prime game via Metroid Prime Remastered on my Switch

And I had SO much fun

I've been so happy to finally play my first Prime game

It's safe to say, I love the Prime games way more than the 2D ones

I even emulate the GC version via PrimeHack to play GC Metroid Prime with PC shooter controls (WASD, Mouse) for the randomizers I do of Prime 1

[wary elk]

Primehack is amazing. The fact that you can toggle Quake style bunny hopping, strafe jumping and missile jumps, totally blows my mind.

[wet flint]

Congrats, I'm jealous that you got to experience Prime 1 for the first time

Wish I could experience that again haha

[final horizon]

gonna play Prime remastered

i never got passed the tutorial lol

[wary elk]

How is your Prime run going?

[final horizon]

https://fixupx.com/hoodedmask/status/1747859729215320325?s=46

[wet flint]

Ooooo very nice

Also, Metroid Prime Remastered is stuttery but is very pretty on Steam Deck OLED.

Stuttery, but playable.

[runic pasture]

Can't wait for prime 4

[whole halo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B9pzvgIL3A @final horizon new liam triforce on metroid 1 and super metroid

[pine current]

Oh there's a whole Metroid channel, that would've been useful to know for when I was playing through Dread
well that makes it easier to ask this question without interrupting the main gaming channel, I'm doing a bit of a thing with a Wii right now and I wanted to kinda do a bit of a custom box art for the Prime Trilogy collection just because I thought the og box art is a bit boring looking, wanted to see if I could get any metroid fans' opinions on which looks cooler

It's a bit nostalgic doing stuff like this I used to do this kind of stuff all the time when I was a young teen lol I used to do my own custom box art for PS2 games

[final horizon]

i think the first looks coolest

[pine current]

Yeah that's a pretty cool one, very action movie poster-like

I thought the Prime 2 cover looked pretty cool too, that's the 4th one, I think the colors on that one really pop and look really nice

[pine current]

I was comparing the first one with the Prime 2 cover and seeing how both looked on the actual TV, dunno why this one just didn't catch my eye as well, then I realized it was super desaturated for some reason, so I bumped up the saturation and I think this looks a lot better now

still tried the MP2 cover just to see what it'd look like and honestly not bad at all either, it has a lot less going on so the red with the white and the black makes all the elements easily readable and pop a bit more

Kinda indecisive because both look pretty cool honestly

[wet flint]

Y CANT METROID CRAWL

[winter saddle]

looks like general is busy with drama so we should revive this for MP4 talk

the game arrived while I was asleep and I just finished work for today so I can finally start playing it

[winter saddle]

I can’t speak to framerate ofc, but this is what it looks like for me right after gameplay starts

a more representative sample

now I’m finally getting into that OMG THIS IS ACTUALLY A REAL GAME hype level

[wet flint]

Yessss same

[wet flint]

Oh wow, a very notable resolution difference

Also, the music in this game is rad

The Vi-O-La theme did NOT need to go that hard, goddamn

I'm starting to feel like this game had a plague of bad trailers.

[winter saddle]

good thing I don't watch trailers

[winter saddle]

"Did you just scan me?"

[wet flint]

I did not expect that line

[winter saddle]

not-Flaahgra defeated

[wet flint]

Accurate

[winter saddle]

suddenly I feel like I’m playing Venineth

[winter saddle]

bike get

okay, there is one unexpected downside to playing this in Japanese

compare:

Online
Offline
to:
オンライン
オフライン

and these words come up constantly in scans

[winter saddle]

the only thing Samus fears: a boss wearing an anti-scan jamming device

[winter saddle]

damn, Xelios was a good boss, I had to lock in to win that first-try

[wet flint]

You’ve gotten ahead of me

Haven’t played it today yet

[winter saddle]

well in that case

area names generally aren't spoilers, right? I can say "I finished Fury Green" no problem?

[wet flint]

Yeah that’s fine with me

And boss names too, tbh. I probably will just drop out of the channel until I can catch up

[winter saddle]

it finally occurred to me to check load times

now that the game's opened up and I have access to transitions to/from the hub area, which so far have been the only truly noticeable "loading times", a quick back-and-forth test on my Switch (1) was 32s and 42s

[wet flint]

Daaaamn that was fantastic

That was a fun one

[winter saddle]

oh hi

after that I did a smidge of hub area and stopped at the first save room in a new/third area

[wet flint]

I found the Akira slide

[final horizon]

hell yeah

is it law that if you have a bike in something you have to have the Akira slide at some point /j

[wet flint]

Huh, that's quite a long wait

Those transitions are also obvious on Switch 2, but they're about 10-15-ish seconds

I'll get around to timing it more closely

[wet flint]

Phew, ice zone boss very nearly got me. That one was a little tricky.

[winter saddle]

ah, I'm still on underground level 2

I should get back to that, I finished updating all my PRs now

[wet flint]

I feel like the mode of transportation between Fury Green and Sol Valley could stand to be a smidge more elegant.

[final horizon]

how is Prime 4 ?

[winter saddle]

so far, the parts that are similar to past Primes are as good as any other Prime

I'm not really sold on the hub area and bike stuff yet but it might be that I'm still too early to judge them

finally got a "dartwing" scan

[wet flint]

Wasn’t just me, then. Tricky buggers to scan.

[wet flint]

Agreed

[winter saddle]

generator's on

the size of those turbines was giving me Dead Space vibes

[wet flint]

Was starting to get worried that this game was going to be a linear trek the whole way through. Now the path forward's getting a bit muddied.

[winter saddle]

oh cool

this lab is a textbook example of how to make a long backtrack perfectly engaging

[wet flint]

Yep yep

I enjoyed the lab

Despite the long switchback

Right now I'm not sure exactly where I need to go

[winter saddle]

feels weird to be at 63% scans and 22% items

dude

that thing just swatted my missile out of the air with its bare... appendage

that's illegal

[wet flint]

It was unimpressed with your missiles

The psy-bots will do that too sometimes

[winter saddle]

huh, had no trouble with this boss

[wet flint]

Fair enough in one of the cycles I just kinda messed up and it got my health into the red

[winter saddle]

I did notice sometimes when it did the spinning charge, it would bounce off the walls and then go directly at me, which seemed impossible to dodge, but then it stopped doing that and bouncing directly back like you'd expect

also it had a laser sweep that it only used exactly once?

so luck could be a real factor there

still, it's a bullfight boss, once you know the attacks you're just waiting for it to let you do damage

[wet flint]

Used it just once for me too

I got caught up in one of its rolling attacks

If the video game awards had a category for “the most unique door designs in one game,” Prime 4 would win it

[winter saddle]

...the game is telling me I missed something in the ice zone???

[wet flint]

Wait really?

[winter saddle]

actually I think I know what Mackenzie's talking about

[wet flint]

Should’ve picked up the blue glowy thing at the zone entrance

[winter saddle]

yeah that

I saw it but didn't see a way to interact with it

but now I've remembered some of the side rooms around there

that's on me

ok now I have it

I probably got every single ammo expansion item that's reachable on first visit yet missed the big progression item somehow

[wet flint]

Also I just found a minor bug

Met a new enemy, attacked it as expected, and it eventually just… stopped. It didn’t die, it just went into an idle standing animation with its head tracking Samus. And it took unlimited damage.

[winter saddle]

oh right

[wet flint]

Decided to ignore it, and it eventually recovered and started running around again. And then died on one basic beam hit.

[winter saddle]

I forgot to mention when I got to the ||teleporting psybot fight in volt forge||, eventually it just stood still on one of the boxes letting me shoot it, neither attacking me nor opening it to let out more enemies, and then when it was dead the box finally opened, so pretty sure that was a bug

[wet flint]

Oh yeah, I think I ran into that one too

Also one of the random maintenance tanks did something similar when it was bouncing around from a missile hit and landed right at a 90 degree corner at the floor and wall. Just kept spinning there for a while.

[wet flint]

First meeting of a NPC, early on: ||https://bsky.app/profile/vinesauceclips.bsky.social/post/3m7dqdgf7mq2c||

Vinesauce Clips Bot (@vinesauceclips.bsky.social)

Voices Pulped

▶ Play video

Bluesky · Dec 6, 2025, 7:28 PM

[pine current]

It's really funny, but if you turn speech down and turn off subtitles, that scene works way better (for me), and I'd assume the following gameplay section is probably a hell of a lot more bearable

[winter saddle]

I never had a problem with this guy...

[wet flint]

The voice acting is alright

I was a little annoyed by him at first, but he grew on me

I also appreciate that they are kinda tossed into their own little corner of the game so they don't interfere with the actual experience

The NPCs are a bit heavy-handed, but overall IMO they're not too bad

Also, Prime 4 is definitely longer than the previous games

[final horizon]

is the bike cool ? ive heard mixed things

[wet flint]

I actually really like the bike

It works, surprisingly

[winter saddle]

the bike itself is cool

[wet flint]

But my one complaint: The Vi-O-La theme should not be locked behind an amiibo. Because that music vastly improves the vibe

[winter saddle]

my main complaints with the bike and the NPCs is they're not really doing that much?

which of course could still change later

so I haven't talked about it much and probably won't until I'm near completion

[wet flint]

Prime 4 is longer than the previous entries

[final horizon]

interesting

[wet flint]

I'm at 7:33, 74% scans, 45% items, and I think I'm about 3/4 through the story

But I still have a bunch of stuff to find

The world is also quite big

While also managing to remain interesting

[wet flint]

But yeah, I turn on the music from the amiibo unlock every time I get on the bike in the desert since that just greatly improves the experience. Also it's just really damn good. It did not need to go that hard. XD

[wet flint]

Yeah I'm still waiting to see what else happens with them

I suspect they're building up to something

[winter saddle]

is the one piece of music the only thing I'm missing?

[wet flint]

The amiibos do a few things, entirely optional and not really necessary. But I'd argue the music is helpful for the vibe/experience in the desert.

Samus Amiibo unlock: You get 1 energy tank worth of extra health for a period of time, once per day. It'll also instantly heal you to max health at the same time.
Sylux amiibo: It'll play a random voice line from him.
Vi-O-La amiibo: You can unlock skins for Vi-O-La and it unlocks the music "radio" while riding it in the desert. You can choose between a few tracks.

I like that the unlocks are so minor, at least.

[final horizon]

yeah that's usually how amiibo are

i enjoy collecting them more than actually using them

[winter saddle]

I didn't even know amiibo had in-game effects until I saw a TotK speedrun discussing the category splits around amiibo usage

[final horizon]

Smash Bros still has the coolest use of amiibo imo

[wet flint]

They pretty much always do

Oh now I know what the scout bots do

Well if anything we learn a lot more about the Federation in this game

[winter saddle]

I need to catch up

(currently in Flare Pool's energy extraction area)

[wet flint]

Well “a lot” may be overselling it

[wet flint]

Hot damn, I'm a bit worried that hard mode will be a real slog

[winter saddle]

[winter saddle]

lol, when Ezra calls Armstrong "kid" in the English voices, the JP subtitles say "ojou-chan"

[wet flint]

Bruh where'd you get those last three?

I'm missing the last four of those

[winter saddle]

uh

did I pull ahead of you or did you go somewhere else after ice zone

[wet flint]

Are they all in Ice Belt?

I have the last teleporter key and I'm now apparently meant to explore Sol Valley. And gather the mech parts.

[winter saddle]

those last 3 logs were all from Flare Pool

[wet flint]

Oh huh

[winter saddle]

I'm releasing the clamps now

[wet flint]

Ah, I'm well ahead of you, then

[winter saddle]

part of the reason for the is that I have no idea whether the missing one is from ice or fire zone (but also probably doesn't matter until I can revisit with upgrades anyway)

yeah clearly I won't have to worry about pulling ahead

I've got so many things pulling my attention away from Metroid

[wet flint]

I think I'm finished with Ice Belt.

As far as I can tell I should have all the items from there and shouldn't need to visit it again

So unless that one scan is burined in there somewhere somehow... but I kinda doubt it since I cleaned it up

[winter saddle]

huh, first death to the fire boss

I think I just wasn't paying enough attention

there we go

I like the ending of that fight

[wet flint]

Yeee that was fun

[winter saddle]

ah, now I see what you mean

[winter saddle]

decided to do a Volt Forge "cleanup" pass

oh look a chip

[wet flint]

In Volt Forge?

[winter saddle]

||yes... does that mean you're not entirely ahead of me after all?||

[wet flint]

Oh I guess that's ||the electric shot||?

[winter saddle]

probably yeah

[wet flint]

Yeah, I have that

[winter saddle]

ok cool

[wet flint]

Oh, huh, found out what progressing in green crystals will do. It's worth doing.

[winter saddle]

ah, ||I got the first of those while stopping by Fury Green before this Volt Forge pass||

oh no, I finally discovered a problem with the Switch itself

D-pad left won't detect light taps, only hard presses

ORBS

[final horizon]

whoa this game is pretty

[winter saddle]

and these are the potato graphics

[wet flint]

I have just 11 scans left to find

Yep, it’s a pretty game sometimes

[winter saddle]

I suspect it would be even prettier if the hub area was a little more varied

[wet flint]

Uh, was there a scout bot somewhere in Volt Forge?

[winter saddle]

I feel like there was

I don't have whatever makes them relevant yet, and I haven't been map marking them

[wet flint]

Oh, found it

Bottom of tower 2

[winter saddle]

Flare Pool revisit, unlocked all the electric locks but no major progress

in low-speed bike areas I feel like boost ball is faster than sticking to the bike, but I might be imagining that

[wet flint]

Fury Green, Ice Belt, and Volt Forge all done.

[wet flint]

Yeah I’m not sure about that

I can’t decide either

[winter saddle]

thank you MacKenzie, I had noticed Ice Belt was the only zone I hadn't revisited yet

question: how do you use map markers?

oh this new guy is already the most useful NPC

if this was Pokémon Snap this would be some kind of high score

[wet flint]

What do you mean? The button controls are there, press Y on the map

[winter saddle]

ah no I meant like which markers are you using for which things if any

playstyle question not controls

[wet flint]

I’ve only used them once so far, and it was to mark Green Crystal formations that I couldn’t break open yet

[winter saddle]

interesting

[wet flint]

Oh thank god, there is a scout bot for Sol Valley

[winter saddle]

in all the modern metroidvanias I play, I've gotten in the habit of placing map markers anywhere I see an item I can't pick up yet, or a place to use an ability I don't have yet, or for some other reason the room is clearly not "done" yet and will need a revisit

(I think there was one game where I also used a marker for "fight I can't win yet")

[wet flint]

I’ve trusted my memory for pickups to backtrack to, but honestly I mostly just kinda forgot that the marker system existed until I could start activating the scout bots

I use markers in BotW/TotK a bunch though, which is odd

[winter saddle]

yeah it's definitely an "advanced" feature per se, I know I've overlooked it in a couple games before I started noticing it and remembering to use it in all the games that do have it

[wet flint]

I did find a lore I couldn’t reach and I just spent a bunch of time finding it again

Wish I had marked that one

[winter saddle]

however I did not mark scout bots, since I did not think I'd need to re-find each individual one until your comments today

anyway that’s why my ice belt map looks like this atm

and that's all my Ice Belt map markers clear

I have enough green crystals for another upgrade so I'm gonna do that and then head for the new area

[winter saddle]

||why is everyone suddenly so interested in the mines? ||

[wet flint]

Achieved the green crystal reward

[wet flint]

I noticed that too
“Have you heard of this place? This place seems suspicious. We’re going to go meet you at this place. You should consider going to this place.”

[wet flint]

Ah-ha, neat

[wet flint]

I’m missing 4 scans

[wet flint]

Did you ever find this one? (EDIT: Just found it)

…huh. I have three items in Flare Pool that I can’t access?

Three left

[wet flint]

Phew, and that’s the last energy tank

[wet flint]

Oh that’s 100% items

And all but two scans, which I’m assuming are for the final stretch

[winter saddle]

fren-shaped

[winter saddle]

oh, I figured out the scout bot thing

[winter saddle]

ha, they got me, I actually thought ||they were gonna let me have the power bomb and finish off the boss with it||

[wet flint]

that was great

[wet flint]

Credits

100% scans and items

[wet flint]

Ending: ||Uh, I guess Metroid Prime 5??? That ending did not go in any of the directions I was expecting. Opening it up to Prime 5 is genuinely surprising to me, I kinda expected Nintendo to just… kill Prime after this.||

[winter saddle]

back from Zootopia 2

got the last Mines item

12:29, 65% items, 88% scans

[wet flint]

That Lamorn scan that you were missing earlier is in ||Flare Pool, Entry Bay||

[winter saddle]

I'm thinking Flare Pool next since that's the only area where I still have multiple map markers, and now I believe all of the upgrades to get them

but first, clearing a little more of the north side of the valley

||throwing a power bomb|| feels a little too powerful

[wet flint]

Also, ending: ||Sylux just might have the cooler suit||

[winter saddle]

Flare Pool's on hold, Shai-hulud just ate an item with my name on it

metroids want me, worms fear me

a tense standoff

[wet flint]

Happens all the time at that save station

[winter saddle]

now that I'm looking for these scouts I cannot find them

[winter saddle]

thanks

I've found like half a dozen items I didn't even have map markers for, but still no scout

[wet flint]

Which ones?

[winter saddle]

uh

there was the area blocked by super missile

there was some spider ball stuff I did have marked

the cylindrical room you had to climb up while tons of psybots attacked had grapple points I forgot to mark

the boss arena has two revisit items

I probably forgot a few already

[wet flint]

It has three

[winter saddle]

well good thing I haven't left yet

found the third

[wet flint]

Energy tank, missile expansion, shot expansion. Energy tank is fun ||and also yields a one-off enemy scan||. The other two are just sitting on the lava next to some debris facing outwards.

Oh cool

[winter saddle]

I think I mistook that for a normal energy orb during the chase

[wet flint]

For the scout bots:
Sol Valley: ||Eventually engineer guy will tell you, but it's off on an island off the cliff right next to Volt Forge's entrance, outside the entrance structure||
Volt Forge: ||At the bottom of tower 2 in the power generator room||
Great Mines: ||At the bottom of the mine just outside the elevator shaft||
Ice Belt: ||in the big snowfield at the zone's entrance, near the debris pile as you enter the zone||
Flare Pool: ||As you enter the Lava Lake Bridge at the zone/facility entrance, it'll be on the right far corner across the lava lake, facility-side||
Fury Green: ||I mean, it gives this to you. Room is Ancient Path, towards Arboreal Temple||

Could also just use this guide here: https://www.nintendolife.com/guides/metroid-prime-4-beyond-all-scout-bot-locations

[winter saddle]

...I absolutely checked there

[wet flint]

Flare Pool location

[winter saddle]

I was just going back there

ok I have no idea how I found an expansion five feet to the left of this and did not see it while having the scan visor up basically the whole time to highlight it

[wet flint]

Stealth bot

[winter saddle]

hm

there's a few angles where the bollards completely hide it

somehow I still have 3 items to find

[wet flint]

"Somehow... the unacquired items have returned"

I'm so glad they have the scout bots in this one because I would not have been able to locate everything without them

[winter saddle]

oh yeah some feature like this is basically mandatory for a metroidvania now

I doubt I ever 100%ed a Prime without a walkthrough

(the 2D ones that mark each item room, maybe, though they still tended to have unmarked secret passages)

[winter saddle]

swapping directly between bike and morph ball is oddly satisfying

speaking of, I just leaped off the bike to power bomb a big rock in the hub area

and didn't realize I was interrupting this guy's chill harmonica music until it was already done

[wet flint]

One of those days when you’re just camping, vibing with nature, and suddenly someone shows up with a mini-nuke because of a weird looking rock nearby-

[winter saddle]

finally got the last sliver of crystals needed for the 3rd upgrade, now I can combine that with the trip to cash in the upgrade that guy gave me

||Acquired teleportation patch! Only works on Galactic Federation golem parts.||

yeah, I had a feeling the 3rd crystal thing might be ||a tool to find more crystals ||

usually I prefer combining that with a "real" reward but I'm definitely glad it exists at all

[winter saddle]

I think the only creature and machine scans I'm missing are in the hub area... probably some of those bike-only enemies

Fury Green scout found

[pine current]

So how is this game so far because one of the streamers I watch who was playing it decided to not stream the game anymore and I already came across a video of someone who, I assume by the comments, would otherwise be super hyped for this game apparently doesn't recommend it and didn't have a good time with it

I can't quite tell if this is a scenario where the game is actually not good or just people being strongly opinionated

[winter saddle]

in most of the ways that matter, it's very similar to previous Primes

anyone who sincerely enjoyed Primes 1-3 will at least have fun with 4; there are plenty of things one might dislike, especially by the high standards this series has set, but nothing that would plausibly ruin the overall experience

I think the worst opinion one could plausibly have is that most of what's in this game is stuff other Primes did as good or better. That's not my opinion, but even if that ends up being yours, that doesn't make 4 bad.

[pine current]

I could bring up some of the points I heard this guy talk about just for the sake of conversation but since I haven't played the game, or any Prime game for that matter I don't know if it'd be completely fair

[winter saddle]

I'm also trying to avoid giving "my thoughts" until I've fully completed the game myself, since some of this depends on what they do with the endgame

but I'm happy to take specific questions that can reasonably be answered (I've done nearly all of the content besides endgame at this point)

[pine current]

well I guess I could ask some questions about what I actually saw from the roughly 4-5 ish hours or so

really the only things that I disliked from that whole thing was just that mackenzie character who I felt was like almost a borderline parody of the usual 'guide NPC' and the desert looking like a bit of a waste of time

didn't get super far in though, basically ended after getting the bike but I actually liked what I saw of it which is the weird part, I kind of thought people would just universally like this across the board but I guess maybe there's some lore context or gameplay context from previous Prime games I'm not getting because I didn't play the others

[winter saddle]

weeeeeell

to be brutally honest

[pine current]

It's not like it's a garbage game but I am surprised to hear that it's a bit mixed is all

I expected it to be a mass success

[winter saddle]

Primes 1-3 came out in 2002, 4, and 7

4 is coming out now in 2025, that's an 18-year gap

and the vast majority of 4 is very similar to Primes 1-3, far more so than any other game; even several of the differences between 4 and other Primes boil down to combining elements from 1, 2 and 3

so, the sharply negative reactions you're alluding to come off to me as "fake fan nostalgia", or whatever you want to call it when people think they really like a game but they've forgotten what it's actually like so they suddenly act disgusted when presented with a perfectly solid follow-up to it

and less harshly, there's also just the fact that it is the 4th in a series of very similar games; general audience reactions are often harsher than we'd like on a "more of the same" sequel

so moving on from that point

the MacKenzie thing is whatever, any character trait/archetype is gonna have people who find it super obnoxious, I don't have a problem with this guy, also none of these NPCs are a large enough presence in the game for it to really matter if you don't jive with one of them

now to stop playing apologetics for a bit

The desert is kinda pointless at first. There's plenty to do there, but almost none of it can be done when the map first opens up, and I do think that's a weird misstep. But after you get more of the main upgrades and you can do stuff in the hub desert, it quickly becomes totally fine.

another weird problem is that you're forced to revisit the desert more often than I think you should be; none of the non-hub zones have direct connections between them like in Prime 2 or Fusion or whatever, which does feel like they overestimated how much there is to do there compared to how often you'll be moving between regular zones

but in the grand scheme of things those are both minor problems, especially if you've been told of them in advance; the combat and platforming and puzzles and abilities and regular level design and general progression is all just as engaging as it's always been

right I completely forgot what I was doing

that's all the items in Fury Green

but I want to try and find these missing lore tablets before leaving

[pine current]

Strange, maybe it's just the fact that it's been in development for so long the usual thing happened where people got an idea of what it was going to be that wasn't met

[wet flint]

This. As someone unhealthily obsessed with Metroid Prime, gameplay-wise it’s definitely a solid Prime game.

Having already beaten it, ||my issue is that it could use more horror and the story was more of stage setup than anything else, which makes it feel a bit hollow in that regard. I get the feeling that something is missing from it. I’m not sure what, but it’s possible something was cut. Overall as a Prime fan, I give it a 7/10||

[winter saddle]

should I avoid clicking that?

[wet flint]

||points deducted for the story being a little scattered, I couldn’t tell what it was really about. What’s the core story? Samus and co getting home? Probably that. The Lamorn, somehow? But it seems like the Lamorn are already gone and Samus was too late to save them. Sylux? He’s just… here too. We didn’t learn much of anything about him. But we did get a good start on his story, should this get sequels.||

Avoid clicking until you finish it, yeah

[pine current]

So if you finished the game I do have one criticism I remember from that video I watched I wanna ask about

[wet flint]

Yeah I’ve finished it. I just need to unlock a couple more gallery items

[pine current]

|| the guy complained pretty hard about those green crystals the game makes you pick up especially because apparently by the end you need to pick up all of them before progressing and he really disliked that, especially since he hated the desert and found it completely pointless and boring as it was, was it a problem for you too or did you naturally manage to pick them all up as you went through ? ||

[wet flint]

||The green crystals are a grindy collect-a-thon, yes, but I quickly gathered them and finished that work in parallel with the rest of the progression. There’s a point where I eventually got around to exploring the whole desert for item pickups and filling out the map late in the game, specifically after getting power bomb, and that’s when I spent time getting enough crystals. Power bomb makes it a lot faster. I finished the green crystals before I finished the item pickups.||

||its grindy and it maybe could be more elegant, but it worked out for me. I think it’s tuned for late game with power bomb and that isn’t necessarily made clear to the player||

[pine current]

Okay

I think yeah, it sounds like people might be a bit opinionated on this game

By that I mean, there are things to dislike about it, but the people so far I've seen really not vibing with the game seem to feel really strongly about things I would probably go ''oh, that sucks'' at and move on

[wet flint]

||I can definitely see people being opinionated about it, yeah. And I can see why. There are some valid points to be had. It is perhaps the worst Prime game in some respects. But outright recommending against it, I don’t agree with.||

||It has several good ideas and a lot of those ideas are executed very well. But some others aren’t done so well.||

[wet flint]

Yeah this is how I feel about it

[winter saddle]

same, there's been bits I didn't like but I had no issues moving on from them

[wet flint]

||NPCs may have been too heavy-handed and the guidance may have been heavy-handed. Useful for new players, but annoying for veterans. My one actual complaint is that the music for the motorcycle in the desert definitely should just be there by default and not locked behind an amiibo, because it makes the desert segment so much more enjoyable than the ambient music. The Vi-O-La track is so fun and it sets a great vibe.||

||Also I was hoping for more horror and more about Sylux’s story… but I guess they’ve set up the sequel. Which I was not expecting.||

||There IS a horror segment, but it’s just not as good as the previous games||

[pine current]

that was another thing I heard the guy from the video talk about and being really disappointed by, but since I have no context for that character or what they represent or even what game they showed up in previously I can't say much about it

[winter saddle]

that is an interesting statement considering I've yet to see a single non-Samus returning character

[pine current]

well I saw that character we're talking about and I only saw like 4-5 hours into the game so you definitely saw them too

[winter saddle]

then one of us is confused and I will ignore it until I'm at the end

a large orb casually rolls through base camp
MacKenzie: "Catch you later"

why does this make me feel weirdly self-conscious about not walking like a normal human

[wet flint]

The bit where they expressed a little bit of jealousy for Samus’ morph ball was pretty funny

[winter saddle]

indeed

[wet flint]

Kinda great that this technology continues to be mysterious and rare

Space Pirates: “We tried to replicate it and only managed to crush all the test volunteers”

[winter saddle]

might still be the most memorable scan logs in the series

it's arguably funnier in retrospect now that we've seen the Ing and Metroid Prime itself copy the morph ball with seemingly no special difficulty

[wet flint]

Heh indeed

And the various other hunters in Metroid Prime Hunters having their own versions of the technology

[winter saddle]

anyway, now that #1032716748887179434 has died down a bit

I did find those missing scans and believe Fury Green is actually completely done now

I'm thinking quick cleanups next, that being ||all the mech parts I found before I had the teleporters|| and Volt Forge since it has only one map marker and the scout left that I know of

speaking of actual flaws with the game

NPC: "use this next time you find a mcguffin"
walks outside
NPC Radio: "have you used the thing on the mcguffin yet?"

[wet flint]

Yeah it does that a bit too much

[winter saddle]

it's such a weird problem to have in 2025 in a series that normally doesn't even have NPCs talking to you outside of cutscenes

[wet flint]

Indeed

[winter saddle]

the elemental beam/missile combo attacks seem much better balanced compared to Prime 2

in that I'm actually using them

[winter saddle]

yep, missed bike-only machines, still looking for the creatures...

[winter saddle]

wtf

this random box had an expansion in it

I was just shooting those to get health back

haven't found the Volt Forge scout yet but I did find two shot tanks I didn't even know about on the way

never mind here it is

right next to the spider ball track which is the one map marker I did still have here

and there's another tank in an ordinary looking box

[winter saddle]

HOW

well that's Volt Forge fully cleared

[winter saddle]

finally found one, in retrospect of course I missed it because it's not a hostile

[wet flint]

Some story ending thoughts: ||Prime 4 is quite tragic; Samus worked so hard to save everyone, but she couldn’t save anyone. Not the Lamorn and not the troopers. Everyone who looked to her for salvation was Beyond her ability to help. She learns their stories and then must let them go. That must weigh heavily on her.||

[winter saddle]

found Ice Belt scout

[wet flint]

Ending: ||Oh dammit. This is a story about grief and mourning. This is Majora’s Mask again. Took me long enough.||

Ending: ||Alright, wow. Prime 4 is more symbolic than I realized. Metroid games usually aren’t and they told a different kind of story here. That gets it another point, 8/10||

[winter saddle]

Ice Belt clear, ~16h, 92% items, 97% scans

||oh, MacKenzie just tells you where the Sol Valley scout is? I wonder if doing the last "shrine"(???) is what triggered that||

Ok I’m out of ideas to double-check, any hint on this last creature scan?

[wet flint]

Oh give me one second

[wet flint]

This is a one-off from the plant boss fight that you missed, Carvex’s Pollen Sac

[winter saddle]

ugh

[winter saddle]

hm, is Tokabi the only one with missable scenes like this? whenever I try talking to the others at base outside of scripted sequences they only have generic context-free barks (and ofc MacKenzie's hints)

[wet flint]

Yes

[winter saddle]

all right, I think I’m as ready for endgame as it’s possible to get ||assuming these two scans are indeed endgame enemies||

...actually lemme try one more time ||to get that last item marker on the valley map which I think is Takobi failing to move campsite when I needed him to, maybe running in and out of Fury Green will fix that||

yep that did it

100%

[wet flint]

Started hard mode

[winter saddle]

technically first try, but with... I wanna say 40 energy left? definitely less than half a tank

[winter saddle]

oh... I had no idea he was in ||Hunters||

[wet flint]

It was tough

[winter saddle]

tbf it was hard for any of them to be memorable with the format that game had

[wet flint]

Yeahhhhhh. ||Sylux’s whole story and identity has been building up since 2006. He’s also in Prime 3’s secret ending. The series director has been saying he knows who he is for a long time.||

[winter saddle]

||which makes it really ironic that one of the problems here is giving me no reason to care about the villain ||

[wet flint]

||He’s also in the secret ending in Federation Force, where he’s seen stealing the Metroids from a Federation facility, which then leads directly to Prime 4.||

[final horizon]

||wait is the villain not Ridley||

IVE ONLY PLAYED ONE METROID GAME GIVE ME A BREAK 😭

[wet flint]

||Yeah, this is the first time he actually gains the spotlight. And it seems like Samus vs. Sylux is the arc for Prime 4 and… seemingly Prime 5 too?? The sequel hook is undeniable. I was expecting to find out who this guy is, but we kinda didn’t learn toooo much||

[winter saddle]

stupid perma-missable scan

[wet flint]

Yeahhhh

[winter saddle]

they even have a boss lore room that lets you get the boss scans after defeating them, which is an improvement over past Primes, but it doesn't do the missable-boss-parts scans

[wet flint]

Oof :<

Damn, that means you don't get to see the final ending that finally made me put the pieces together and figure out what this game is actually about.

[winter saddle]

I don't know why devs lock that kind of content behind perma-missable stuff

welp, time to google all the endings

[wet flint]

Here is the secret ending for Prime 4: ||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUa_2cz5dVE||

This is two cinematics put together

Interestingly, the Samus amiibo will unlock the secret endings regardless of your completion rate

Guess now I have to wait for someone to rip the soundtrack…

I’d be interested to know your thoughts on it now that you’ve finished it

[winter saddle]

tbh I think you nailed it before with ^this take. What you say later ||about grief and being beyond saving|| is probably what they were going for, but way too many things are missing and/or pulling in other directions for that to be a description of the story as actually told in the game we got.

Fortunately, unlike Other M, it’s pretty easy to just dismiss the story as “not what I play Metroid for”, so IMO it’s about the same result as the barebones story of past Primes.

[wet flint]

Agreed. I feel like something important was cut which is why it feels disjointed.

I give them points for actually having something interesting they were shooting for. But it’s definitely unfortunate that the final execution of the idea is so thin.

Separating out the story, as a Prime game it’s pretty good though IMO. Desert segment’s oddity aside.

[winter saddle]

still bizarre that this is apparently a multi-game saga, and I completely failed to even recognize that, despite having played and 100%d nearly all of the series, some of it twice, and remembering most of it fairly well, so I should’ve been the ideal target audience for whatever they were trying to do

[wet flint]

Maybe they were erring on the side of caution and didn’t want to put too much in there, for fear of overburdening the Prime game? If so, they might’ve been over-cautious.

[winter saddle]

right, but then they should’ve narrowed the focus to fit in the allotted time

“thin” was a great word for it

but that’s enough on the endings for now

I’d like to write up an excessively detailed breakdown of what I think was better, worse and about the same compared to past Primes, but that’ll have to be tomorrow because it’s already way past my bedtime

[winter saddle]

Okay, COMPLETE thoughts on Metroid Prime 4 after 100%ing it. Massive wall of text incoming. I might trigger the spam filter.

Let's start with the best. I have only positive things to say about the (on foot) combat and abilities. In fact, IMO literally all of this is as good or better than past Primes.

• The default beam, missiles, super missles, and morph ball (including "spring ball") are basically the same as usual, which is fine of course. And as always, some new abilities are basically just keys for specific locks so they're fine but not much to talk about.
• Some familiar abilities have a new twist which makes them feel meaningfully different to past Primes: ||bombs and power bombs can now be thrown at faraway bomb slots and destructibles, the spider ball now has "tethers" to fling yourself with in addition to bomb and boost jumps, and the grapple beam now has "wall cling" grapple points in addition to swinging and yanking.||
• Easily my favorite new ability is the "control beam". It's basically a ||charge shot that you manually steer in slow motion after firing||, which gets a lot of great combat and puzzle use throughout the game and feels unlike anything in past Primes.
• This time there's only one "psychic" visor for seeing/activating invisible stuff, which is probably for the best after multiple games of thermal/x-ray/etc. Interestingly, this merges seamlessly with your scan visor, so instead of needing a 4-way visor selection, you only need one button to toggle between combat mode and scan/psychic visor, which I think is a significant improvement.
• How they handled beam types is IMO the most interesting choice. Like Prime 2, non-default beams consume ammo, and your default beam is never obsolete. Unlike Prime 2, all non-default beams share the same ammo pool: you have "shot" ammo and missile ammo to spend in combat. Finally, instead of a missile button, you have a secondary weapon button, and missiles become one of four secondary weapon choices alongside the three "shot"/non-default beam types. For me this system ended up being the best weapon balance of any Prime: unlike 1-3 I found myself regularly switching between all of my weapons, and even using charge combos.

Next up, the biggest talking points, and the most burning questions for anyone who hasn't played it yet: Are the desert/hub area and the bike any good? Well, kinda. There's a lot of fun to be had with them, but they're a mixed bag overall.

• Viola/The bike is consistently fun to drive, even in straight lines across the desert, and getting to use it outside of the hub area is always a highlight. The few bike-only bosses were particularly fun. But the regular bike-only fights are usually just boring. Plus, the bike itself only ever gets one meaningful upgrade, and that only applies in one area. So, perhaps surprisingly, that's already everything I have to say about the bike.
• Unlike past Primes, Prime 4 has a desert hub area ("Sol Valley") between all of the other zones. You're expected to use the bike instead of walking, and it has a different style of map, which does make for a nice shake-up of the usual Prime formula, but it's just not implemented as well as the regular on-foot zones.
• The main problem is simply that it's a big flat square with no interesting navigation, so much of the time you're either aiming at a waypoint and holding accelerate, or driving back and forth like a lawnmower to fill out the map or collect green crystals.
• The second problem is that there are simply too many desert crossings, because a) there are zero direct connections between the other zones, and b) some of the upgrades take the form of "chips" you have to carry back to base to turn into the actual upgrade.
• Fortunately, actually crossing it to get to the zone you want doesn't take that long, and there is a decent amount of stuff to do in the desert itself, and it is common for the mindless holding of accelerate to get interrupted by a genuine distraction you want to investigate. It's just not common enough compared to how much empty space there is and how many times you're expected to cross it.
• In Zelda terms: Sadly it's no BotW/TotK Hyrule; it's more like the Hyrule Field part of Ocarina of Time. Not bad by any stretch, but soooo much room for improvement.

In terms of (non-hub) level design, aesthetics, progression, structure, etc, Prime 4 is almost as good as all of its predecessors. I don't have much to say here, because I'm pretty sure you don't need me to tell you why Metroid Prime 1 is good. Prime 4 is good for all of the same reasons. My few caveats for why I rate it slightly lower are:

• Collecting the green crystals is very dull compared to the other objectives. Fortunately, you should have enough by the end of the game so it's not a serious obstacle, but it's still a weakness.
• At least for me, none of the major areas are quite as memorable and iconic as e.g. Prime 1's Magmoor Caverns/Phendrana Drifts/Phazon Mines/etc or Prime 2's Sanctuary or Prime 3's SkyTown. Prime 4's Chrono Tower should be, but you're only there for a few minutes.

Finally, what feels like the cheap shot: Prime 4 tries harder to tell a story than 1-3 did, but it's a complete mess; I genuinely couldn't tell you what purpose half the cutscenes and characters are meant to fulfill. Fortunately, unlike the disaster of Other M, in Prime 4 it's very easy to just ignore the story problems and focus on how the game plays. And it's not like 1-3 had "good" stories per se, just perfunctory ones that quickly got out of your way.

So that's how I arrive at the conclusion that Prime 4 is a very good game but also the weakest of the 4 Primes. We're looking at a 7-to-9 out of 10, depending on how much the weaker parts bother you, in a series where every past game was a 9 or 10.

[wet flint]

Damn, I'm in the middle of writing my own take on this and you just put down every thought I had about it

[winter saddle]

sometimes you just have to put thoughts into words before your brain will allow you to stop thinking them

I'm freeeeeee

I guess you'll be playing hard mode while I try to get back to one of the 20+ games I bought and didn't start yet because I forgot Prime 4 was coming

[wet flint]

Yeah. I want to also write up basically what you posted here and toss it onto my blog

So I'll probably do that while running through hard mode.

[winter saddle]

I'll laugh so much if hard mode requires you to get every green crystal

[wet flint]

Hahaha

I'm pretty sure those are separate goals. Hard mode is just "finish hard mode"

What's going to suck is that save stations do not refill ammo

Which was fine, that didn't bother me too much. But in the Great Mines I was really burning through that ammo

[winter saddle]

yeah I struggle to see how that would be, uh, fun

[wet flint]

Great Mines is going to suck

[winter saddle]

seems like it'd just be less weapon variety

in a game where one of my strongest positives is "they actually made me use all the weapons"

[wet flint]

Gotta be more strategic

[winter saddle]

but I like burning grievers

[wet flint]

Great Mines was made so much easier with the electric shot and its relay ability

[winter saddle]

(it is "grievers", right? I only see katakana so)

[wet flint]

Yep!

[winter saddle]

||oh fuck I just remembered what that word means in English ||

[wet flint]

Electric shot solved the crowd control problem there... going to have to Git Gud™ for that

YEP

[winter saddle]

somehow I language barrier'd myself out of my native language

[wet flint]

I had the same moment. "Oh goddammit, that took me too long to connect the dots"

It's right in my face the whole time, they're not subtle about it

I kinda blocked myself on it by mindset. Metroid doesn't really do symbolism, so I was just taking everything at face value.

[winter saddle]

granted I'm not sure this quite rises to the level of "symbolism", since it's fairly obvious why the lamoorans(???) chose that term

[wet flint]

True

Lamorn, incidentally

[winter saddle]

btw, if you care, I have now written down my complete thoughts on MP4, fleshing out what I told you the other day: #1033785420938477668 message

[wet flint]

Also I got around to actually checking out reviews.
GameInformer gave it 8.75, IGN gave it 8

[winter saddle]

reasonable

[wet flint]

Yeah. I was worried that reviewers would give it 6 or something, so I avoided them until after I beat it

[winter saddle]

we were fine because they included an easy mode for journalists

[wet flint]

Aww, isopod fren
I like isopod fren
Isopod fren noooooooo!!

[pine current]

Okay I do think some reactions are a little extreme but I can also see why people would react that way when the past Prime games were (apparently) so good

It's totally just people being super bummed that this game that has been long awaited and was in development for so long didn't live up to the expectations

but not only were expectations high, the game itself is also not great, it's a good game, so hardcore fans are probably extra bummed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdyQDAL_WwQ

This was the one video I saw the other day

[wet flint]

It has the problem of having been in the works for long, so people probably had unrealistic expectations

I feel it was quite satisfactory

I wasn’t expecting it to blow me out of the water, so I couldn’t get disappointed that way

Not worth waiting 18 years for, but nothing could ever be worth that long of a wait

[winter saddle]

yeah, dev time is just not a good metric of expectations

lots of games get worse the longer they linger unreleased in dev hell

[pine current]

Okay, yeah, I'm not going crazy, the Prime 1 suit was way bulkier than the Prime 4 suit and they totally slimmed her down

I actually kind of like it, personally, the Dread suits all looked fantastic to me in large part because they're a lot more form-fitting and have more ''''normal'''' proportions

There is a certain charm to how outrageously oversized the Prime or Super Metroid suits are but if they're gonna go with this for any future Metroid games going forward, I'm totally fine with it, it's still imposing and big but looks like an actual person might be inside, as opposed to looking a bit impossible proportion wise

[wet flint]

Yeah, her Prime suit has been optimized without going all in on the Dread look, since this happens a while before then

I like it

I’d also like a comparison to the Prime 2 and Prime 3 Varia suits

Prime 3 sorta slimmed her down a bit too

But not as much

[pine current]

Looks like someone already compared the Prime 2 and 4 suits

Someone else did an edit of Prime 4 suit with Prime 3 proportions

I don't know if this might be a contentious topic with fans, as much of a Metroid fan as I am I'm not tunes in with the fandom or community at all, I kinda like it but I could see some hardcore fans wanting her to keep looking big like in Super or Prime 1

I'm more than fine with it especially lore wise after Fusion it makes sense the suit will be a lot more streamlined and sleek

[wet flint]

Well, there’s some charm to her more tanky appearance. But I’m all for more realistic proportions

Prime 4 still takes place before Fusion, though

• Metroid NES / Zero Mission (Metroid 1)
• Metroid Prime
• Metroid Prime Hunters
• Metroid Prime 2
• Metroid Prime 3
• Federation Force
• Metroid Prime 4
• Metroid II / Samus Returns (Metroid 2)
• Super Metroid (Metroid 3)
• Other M
• Fusion (Metroid 4)
• Dread (Metroid 5)

Can just pound that out since I forever have it memorized

[pine current]

I know, I mean I'm fine with Samus looking like she does in Dread going forward, maybe a little bigger like in Prime 4 since I do get the feeling Dread Samus is a little shorter than she's usually depicted as

I am curious to see if another Metroid game comes out if they're gonna keep the white or go with the classic suit, because I mean... I love the white suit

[wet flint]

Ah, yeah, agreed. Dread Samus is excellent and I sorta expect her to keep that slimmer silhouette in the later timeline. Earlier timeline will probably stay bulkier. Basically “technology advanced some more and so her suit got some miniaturization upgrades” is how I’m interpreting it

Ohh yeah, I’m curious too. They could go in so many directions after the events of Dread.

But I’d kinda like them to keep it, or some derivative of it

If/when they do Metroid 6 though, I absolutely want Mercury Steam to do it

They nailed both Samus Returns and Dread

Basically MercurySteam seems to be perfect for 2D Metroid and Retro Studios for 3D Metroid

[pine current]

I guess there is a bit of a charm that is lost to Samus having that super bulky suit since Super especially to add to that feeling of "ah hah! He's not a boy it's actually a girl!" During the end screen, but I guess since the cat is out of the bag now they probably wanna go for a more sleeker design now, and with aesthetics changing as time goes on and all, we're kind of in a sleek robot era right now

They seem to have even done a sleeker Samus for their M2 remake too

I do wonder about Mercury Steam, quite a number of small controversies happened after Dread that make me wonder if they'll be back
Stuff about the development being chaotic and hellish, a small controversy about devs not getting credited? Stuff like that...

My favourite part about them is they're a Spanish developer, which is an insane win considering most big development studios are either in america or japan, a Spanish developer making the best selling Metroid game? It's awesome

That scream which has probably become an iconic moment of the franchise? Performed by a Spanish VA! and that is pretty cool

[wet flint]

Nintendo games in general have a habit of not crediting everyone in recent years

Nintendo seems to have some rules that exclude certain kinds of contractors or people who weren’t on the teams for a sufficient amount of time

Credits politics has always been a thing in entertainment, but Nintendo’s rules might’ve changed recently to be more strict

[wet flint]

Apparently her Chozo lines were also done pretty much perfectly on the first try, too

[winter saddle]

Samus Returns becomes a weirder subtitle every time they squeeze another game in here

“Metroid II: Samus Never Left So Here She Is Again”

[wet flint]

It turns out that the Metroid Prime 4 data files contain about 30 minutes of unused dialogue that seems to be for the passive background discussions at base camp

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/you-want-me-to-build-rocket-skates-fans-uncover-30-mins-of-cut-metroid-prime-4-dialogue/

[winter saddle]

that... would explain a lot

[chilly zenith]

https://www.tumblr.com/hoshizoralone/781817421488078848/samus-parking-situation

it's me lone

samus parking situation

-# #loneart #samus aran #metroid #id let her flatten my car no prob

Tumblr · Apr 25, 2025, 4:39 PM

[winter saddle]

this probably justifies one of those gunship redesigns

[final horizon]

i love the idea of restaurants in space

[chilly zenith]

Did someone say restaurants in space https://youtu.be/-cd3_AQ80SM?si=caLezMDEGqjNEYTt

[wet flint]

Ooo, new posable Samus figurine. Maybe I’ll preorder it-
$300?!?!

https://www.gamestop.com/collectibles/figures/products/bandai-tamashii-nations-metroid-prime-4-beyond-samus-aran-metroid-prime-chogokin-8.2-in-figure/437467.html

Bruh, definitely not worth that much

[wet flint]

@winter saddle In an interview with Famitsu, Nintendo's Prime 4 team had this to say. Source: https://www.famitsu.com/article/202512/60211

guess the timeline doesn't matter anymore????

[winter saddle]

o... kay

that feels weirder than just saying it's not a concern for you, which I'd kinda be fine with?

it'd hardly be a surprise since Mario and Zelda have never cared much about timelines either

[wet flint]

This was with Google Translate, so...

Samus does eventually get back, so I'm not sure if it doesn't matter anymore

I guess during the game, sure

[winter saddle]

(busy atm, but I can critique translations later if you want, just post a snippet here of the important part, since that whole page is obv too much)

[pine current]

''from now on'' ???

[wet flint]

開発チーム　『スーパーメトロイド』の後で、『メトロイド フュージョン』の前という設定です。ただ、今作でサムスは時空を超えて別次元の世界に飛び込んだので、今後時系列を気にしなくてよくなります。そこは、あえて意識して設定をしています。2Dの『メトロイド』シリーズに影響を与えることなく、自由で『メトロイドプライム』独自な設定を可能にしたかったからです。

Should be the relevant bit

[wet flint]

Doesn't really make sense to me

I assume it's a Google Translate phrasing issue, maybe?

The only thing I know for certain is that it takes place after Super Metroid and before Fusion.

Primes 1-3 and Federation Force take place before Metroid II, which takes place before Super Metroid. Other M happens immediately after Super Metroid, so presumably it's therefore actually between Other M and Fusion? It couldn't fit otherwise. /shrug

[winter saddle]

I can't find any problems with the google translate here

the things you are puzzled about, I am also puzzled about, for reasons unrelated to the language barrier

[pine current]

I don't think it's a language thing it's too specific

it just seems like the general idea they're doing with Zelda where they don't wanna bother with a timeline anymore

[winter saddle]

I wasn't expecting it to be, but since we have the luxury of being able to double-check

[pine current]

but I mean... Zelda can do it but Metroid? Like, I guess but... is it really that much of a limitation to just keep a sense of chronology to the events?

Like.... we're already here, we already made every game be connected without issue, so why start now?

[winter saddle]

tbh I thought they already had all the freedom they wanted by just setting every Prime before Fusion

[pine current]

Because the implication I get from the text without having played Prime 4 is that they're just gonna keep putting Samus in a different dimension for the Prime games forever now because they don't want it to interject with the main series?

Is that not even way more complicated?

[winter saddle]

sure seems like it to me

[wet flint]

I parse it that way too. That would also imply there are now two Samuses.

Or maybe Samus just goes back and forth between the dimensions for... some reason.

Maybe they just misspoke? Because it's just kinda nuts.

And also not sure why you would even bother in the first place.

It's not like Prime is breaking any rules

[pine current]

The only way I can interpret that phrase as some sort of language barrier scenario is if the guy worded his idea really really really badly and he actually meant that you don't have to worry about the timeline placement from the moment Samus steps into the different dimension and all the events of the game play out, but that still doesn't make any sense because those events still happened and they still relatively matter especially since that other bounty hunter guy is in the game so the more I think about it the less sense that makes

if you're that worried about running out of timeline to make games just make it so that the games happen super close to each other it literally doesn't matter that much

[wet flint]

Yeah I can imagine he meant for the duration of the game

[winter saddle]

to me it feels like yet more evidence that there was a vision for this story that goes way beyond (edit: pun not intended) what actually shipped in the game we played

[wet flint]

True

[pine current]

https://youtu.be/r1nKnPICRHQ?si=l_ogtofvtcxP3Fck

I guess if anyone was looking for another video to watch about the game (it's more positive than you'd think at first)

Me personally, the more I hear about this game the more I'm convinced if I was a Metroid Prime fan I would be absolutely livid about this game's existence, kind of the same way I'm currently pretty unhappy with Zelda's direction but because I'm such a big Zelda fan I just bear with it, especially knowing how long this was coming (although apparently even the developers realized that some parts of the game were weak but they already restarted development once so they just literally had to roll with it)

if I ever want to play a Prime game, I'll probably go with the first one

[winter saddle]

and this is why I avoid videos that seem to be relying on negativity to pull people in (even partially)

MA and I are not livid, because we're reasonable people who actually like Prime games and are happy to get another one that's almost as good as 1-3

but yeah you should try Prime 1 first if you've never played a Prime

there's not really any reason to do them out of order, the later ones are often more likely to assume you know the basic moves already, etc

[pine current]

That video is not nearly as negative as any other videos I've seen about the game by the way, so the video is definitely not being overly negative at all, and the guy is actually a big Prime fan so he's much more lax on the game as other people, the part about being livid is just a personal thing

There's no reason to be livid about BOTW and TOTK either, it's just a me thing

[winter saddle]

I guess it's also worth pointing out that, when you're unhappy about something like an RE remake not having fixed camera angles (yes it's still funny ), that's a fundamental change to the basic experience of the majority of the game

while most of MP4's faults are "off to the side", and don't affect you at all when you're playing the "normal" parts that are just like and just as good as MP1-3

[winter saddle]

a good example of this is that Prime 2 adds a whole lot more stuff you can do in morph ball form, including multiple bosses fought partially or wholly as a ball, which... if you've already played all of Prime 1, that sounds like a great way to shake things up (and it is). If you haven't, it might just sound puzzling.

[pine current]

Okay I realize I should probably explain what I mean if I'm gonna say something like I would be livid about Prime 4, because it's not so much I would be mad that it sucks so much because it doesn't, every single video I've seen about it and even as far as I personally saw of the game makes it clear to me even if it's not as good as the other Prime games arguably, that still makes it a good game anyways, it's moreso just everything around it
It wouldn't make me livid because the game is hot garbage it would make me livid to know that it's something I would have waited for so long and despite all that it only manages to at best be as good as the games that came before, but they have a bunch of really annoying bad parts sprinkled in that compound and would eventually make me really mad, like just the existence of an open world, is it something you can ignore? Yes absolutely and the other areas are as well designed as any other Prime game, but that would make me constantly think "why isn't the entire game like this?", and the part that would make me livid is knowing that this modern entry isn't even fully up to par with the first game at least when speaking of the overall quality, and especially knowing something like Dread had come out which is excellent!

[winter saddle]

tbf "not even up to par with the first" implies that the older entries are outdated in some at least partially objective way, which is true of many series, but with Metroid Prime, 2 and 3 are just different from 1, and 1 didn't have much of anything to "fix"

it's not like the 2D games where clearly the original NES Metroid is (almost?) no one's first pick these days, but even in 2D somewhere around Super or Fusion or Zero Mission they also stopped "getting better" because it was peak and peak and more peak

(ignoring those weird anomalies like Other M and Federation Force; hell even Metroid Prime Pinball was peak somehow)

[pine current]

When I say that I mean overall quality, I'm including the fact that there's all these annoying things like the open world, the green crystals, the annoying characters, the weird hand holding that makes the overall experience not as good as even the previous games

[winter saddle]

weird hand holding?

(I rarely found the characters annoying but that's gonna be a personal thing)

oh you're probably talking about the hub area giving over-eager reminders of the next main objective, right

[pine current]

I mean the constant radio chatter talking about incredibly obvious details when going through an area or even while wandering the desert

But again that's something that maybe if someone else likes it then that wouldn't make Prime 4 "barely as good as the previous ones", so that's what I mean when I say that

It's all mostly subjective things rather than the game itself being bad, the same way I am super unhappy with TOTK but that game isn't bad

[chilly zenith]

I mean that’s already a big part of most video games

[winter saddle]

it is weird for Metroid admittedly

[chilly zenith]

Skyrim says shit like “Money can be exchanged for goods and services” with a rotatable model of a troll every time you unload and load a new cell

I think it says something that Metroid resisted so many industry conventions, and despite adhering to them now it’s still great

[pine current]

Yeah, exactly, and it being a part of every other game is precisely why it's something that would make me mad because I would expect this series to be the one to not do that (again I say would because since I'm not really a Prime fan I largely don't care that much, but I'm still a Metroid fan)

[pine current]

You could see it that way, but the way I see it is the developers are clearly skilled enough to pull off something better than what they did before but they're being dragged down by all these conventions that are making the game worse

Or, worse I guess if it's something that bothers you, because maybe you actually really like having an NPC remind you to visit other areas you already visited, on a Metroid game

[chilly zenith]

I think the more you iron a shirt, the few wrinkles that remain seem bigger

[winter saddle]

this is related to why I put so much emphasis on how "easy to ignore" certain faults are

Most games are going to have bits I don't like for whatever reason, and there will always be a non-zero element of "try to have fun" responsibility on the player's part. Even if much of the point of being a game is to make fun as likely as possible for a wide range of players, so in a great game "the player's job" is hopefully very small, fun can't be guaranteed and it certainly can't be forced.

[pine current]

That is kind of what I'm trying to explain is that the game itself is not at fault it would be my subjective opinion of the game and me constantly thinking "oh the entire game could've been this" when faced with all the parts I dislike so much, but the part that would make me livid is not the game itself being bad is what I'm trying to explain it would just be everything around it

I'm mostly thinking: what if a Dread sequel came out and it was full of things like this

that would make me mad, and that game would probably still be really good anyways

[winter saddle]

hmm

I guess I'm unsure how to respond to this since it feels like we're waffling between a couple of extremely different points

is this really about how good or not good certain aspects of the new game are in isolation

is this about what are the odds that Nintendo will do better or worse with the next game, or if there will even be a next game

is this about the attitude we have around these things, and whether going out of your way to imagine the worst possible next game is, uh, unhealthy?

those are all very different conversations and you seem to be in a quantum superposition of at least two of them

[pine current]

That's mostly because there's not really a whole lot to respond to and I wasn't expecting the conversation to go in this direction from a simple personal comment but I realize now I didn't explain it at all to be fair
There wasn't really any big point I was trying to make or anything, I just said I'd probably be unhappy with this game if I was a Prime fan just because of all these aspects I think are holding the game back, while at the same time knowing and seeing that there's really good parts in the game and that the devs are more than capable on delivering as good of an experience as before, I said I would be livid because I'm imagining this scenario with other games I play, like for example Zelda, and that would probably make my opinions on it a bit more... passionate

But really it was just a silly exaggerated comment I wasn't expecting to become the point of the conversation at all I just threw it in there and I mostly just wanted to share the video

I've been trying to poorly explain all along these are purely subjective things that maybe other players can fully ignore and only focus on the parts that are good like you and MA did but I wouldn't be able to, which is something purely subjective so discussing I guess kind of doesn't matter that much...

[pine current]

I guess to make the conversation productive at all I could answer you this, because it seems like the devs of Prime 4 knew already that a lot of the parts they were experimenting with for this game were outdated or poorly implemented, but they simply had to go with it because they restarted development once already

So, in the event of a Prime 5 (which, I correctly remember coming across a post discussing, why is it still called Prime anyways? ) then this sequel would probably be more polished which is a good sign overall, that is, unless it repeats the same cycle of putting the franchise to sleep for a decade before making a new game

Which hopefully won't happen

[winter saddle]

Yeah, another of the reasons I have no strong negative feelings about all this is that I currently have zero reason to believe this was a cynical cash grab, an ill-conceived cowing to industry trends, and a portent of further impending doom. I think they sincerely tried, missed the mark in some ways (but still nailed the stuff Prime's usually good at), and will do better next time.

(for a fun contrast, see my very different thoughts on Halo Infinite)

[winter saddle]

oh it's absolutely an Artifact Title, to borrow a TVTropes term

the titular Metroid Prime organism was defeated probably forever maybe in Prime 3

but it's far too well-established as the subtitle for the 3D games so why not

[pine current]

And I mean the Prime: Beyond could also be a "Beyond the Prime" in a way so yeah it kinda ends up working out but, who knows maybe they'll change it

[winter saddle]

tbf, once upon a time it was arguably a spoiler that Prime survived Prime 1

but this is not exactly the deepest of stories so I'm assuming no one will get mad at me for that

[final horizon]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Metroid/s/7UqgbrH4W9

[wet flint]

I need it

[wet flint]

https://shinesparkers.net/features/metroid-prime-4-famitsu-interview/

Shinesparkers translated the whole Famitsu interview

[wet flint]

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/veteran-nintendo-producer-kensuke-tanabe-known-for-metroid-and-paper-mario-reportedly-confirms-retirement/

Tanabe seems to have retired