Buck and Doe

[hard fulcrum]

I don’t think they’d give dominant roar to an epic. At most it would be Roar.

[surreal owl]

they would be added as potent yet manageable threats in the context of epic tourneys

DR is Rexy's signature move, there's no way Buck and Doe are getting DR

[warm needle]

They gave enfeebling impact to an epic so dominant roar isn't out of the question

[hard fulcrum]

DR is Rexy’s signature move

[surreal owl]

again, the enfeebling moves are the new gimmick theyre pushing onto the new rig to hype us up about insects

even rexy's hybrid didnt get DR

[warm needle]

I think they're going to give us dread for the insects instead

[surreal owl]

wdym by dread?

[warm needle]

Even if they're not broken once they get hybrids it will be just like beta and compsoraptor

[warm needle]

People aren't going to like having to deal with them

[hard fulcrum]

Insects are a new gimmick to the game. If they prove to overpowered then nerf the current insect rig

[surreal owl]

yes no one likes new OP flocks, hence why we should add more large creatures like Buck and Doe

[hard fulcrum]

Who says they have to end up like Compso? Literally no one

[surreal owl]

side note, but Ludia said thered be less flocks in Q4 and yet here we are with a new rig dedicated to flocks and bugs 😂

[hard fulcrum]

The less flock creatures the better. The bigger creatures are manageable.

[hard fulcrum]

Then in the next update they’ll add in more flock insects

[surreal owl]

yeah i assume they prob will

not sure if we'll get Buck and Doe before the end of the year like we wanted since theres only one update left in Q4

but next year is Jurassic Park's 30th anniversary so they could come then

[hard fulcrum]

Would be a crime to not do anything park related in Park’s anniversary year

[surreal owl]

that being said 2022 is The Lost World's 25th anniversary, what better year to get Buck and Doe....

@mental wolf can the team make it happen? maybe? 😅

[hard fulcrum]

The JP pteranodon, tiger striped, and quilled raptors could also be a fun anniversary addition.

[balmy sky]

Or the big one

[winged glade]

The opinion isn’t that park creatures will be broken, it’s that movie creatures will be broken

[hushed peak]

One as a skin of T-Rex and another one as the gen 2. Then you can have the whole group of movie rexes without having to make more slightly different rexes with likely broken kits.

[balmy sky]

Buck is truly the most dangerous trex. He is one of the few civilian killing creatures and known for the San Diego incident that lead to Jurassic World and fallen kingdom by that logic which lead to dominion. Buck is not a deus ex machina like rexy or a one dimensional plot point or monster like beta or spinosaurus. He is also one of 3 canonical dinosaur parents

He deserves to be added and by default so do doe and junior

[warm needle]

Yet more proof of why I stand so firmly against movie dinos

Literally any dinosaur in the franchise could kill someone, just because one showed up in a movie and did it doesn't mean it's some special ultra version that needs to be a legendary destroying everything in it's path

[hard fulcrum]

The only T. rex skin we need is Rexy from the dominion prologue.

[hard fulcrum]

No one said they had to be legendaries. No one said they have to be broken

[warm needle]

There are so many people out there who think they should be, ludia included

[hard fulcrum]

When did Ludia ever say they’d make Buck or doe a legendary?

Source?

[versed gazelle]

The last time they made a movie Rex it was legendary and broken

You just have to look at past creatures to see there is a pattern

[hard fulcrum]

That is nowhere close to a guarantee they will be legendary.

They added in blue and beta and giga, and the other World animals and none of them are broken or legendaries.

[versed gazelle]

They got broken hybrids though

so really there will be a broken creature regardless

[hard fulcrum]

Indo and Indorex are the only movie Dinos besides Rexy legendary or higher rarity. They’re not broken.

Giganax isn’t really broken. Neither is indo gen2.

[warm needle]

Giganyx and Indo gen 2 were both very broken

If you ever played the game pre 2.0 you'd know indo gen 2 was pretty much high tyrant, giganyx also had that title immediately after it's buff

Don't forget indom and indoraptor both had their spotlight and are old, so they don't make money and therefore won't get any attention

I think every movie dino but the cameos and the atroci squad had their time

[versed gazelle]

Giganyx isn't really broken, neither is Indo G2 😂

just like every hybrid they start broken and are then powercrept

[surreal owl]

the unique scorpion is looking dangerously broken, but doesn't include a movie component

at this point its become a pattern for Ludia to release a new creature, make it extremely powerful and then nerf or powercreep it

the argument isn't even that relevant to Buck and Doe since it happens to all creatures, just look at Pteranokyrie

if the issue really is imbalance in the game then what we actually need would be a complete overhaul of the entire roster, redesigning the kits and stats of old creatures to accommodate the new moves/mechanics that were introduced recently

[warm needle]

I agree, with the amount of people who ask for rexy buffs or deny that it's a problem they would all want buck and doe to be the same and Ludia would gladly do it and make a profit over listening to anyone asking for a balanced version

[surreal owl]

nonhybrid legendaries are a statistical rarity, we've only seen two in game and ParaLux was because of novelty and Rexy because she's quite literally the most famous dinosaur in both fiction and real life

Buck and Doe would be added as epics, no higher, it just wouldn't make sense otherwise

[warm needle]

I never said they had to be legendary for people to ask to make them broken

The idea of a balanced addition of buck and doe is at least a decent idea and something I wouldn't have too big of a problem but keep in mind that Ludia will be the ones making them and they're unlikely to accept your input over the masses of rexy fans who would love 2 almost clones of it on their teams

When they want to make a profit off something they make it broken or give it a hybrid that's broken and they did both of these things to rexy so they would surely follow the same business model for what is essentially the same thing and then we have to deal with a pair of clones ruining epic tournaments more than pulmono or megalotops ever could

[hard fulcrum]

then you know they can be nerfed, problem solved

[warm needle]

So if ludia added a dino that killed everything and had no counters at all but nerfed it in 5 updates it's totally acceptable?

[warm needle]

That was before jamcity, they don't nerf anymore, only add to the heap to bury the current problems

[hard fulcrum]

this is literally how ludia works, well technically jam

[warm needle]

It wasn't always

[hard fulcrum]

how many people are asking for more rexy clones? is this really a thing?

[hard fulcrum]

blame jam

[warm needle]

I'm saying people want rexy and other movie creatures like buck and doe to be overpowered and Ludia probably will not put in the effort to make them meaningfully different from rexy, aside from not having dominant roar maybe

[hard fulcrum]

asking for movie creatures is good, asking for them to be broken is stupid, even more stupid asking for them to be skillset clones

[warm needle]

A lot of people do want them to be broken and Ludia will be more than happy to listen

I'd say the better idea is to wait to add buck and doe when this game gets a handle on its current balancing problems, if it ever does

[warm needle]

That doesn't make it good

It's about the worst kind of game design you can have

[hard fulcrum]

the chances that they fix their balancing problems is 1 in 1M

[hard fulcrum]

if there is enough push to balance the game maybe we can get ludia to do it

[warm needle]

No we can't. The only way to make them balance the game is hope they decide they need to do it to make more money

[vital helm]

There has been enough push, and Ludia threw it in the trash. Countless forum threads and even a Gamepress article all got completely ignored by them. This game is slowly dying and nothing is going to help it.

[hard fulcrum]

The only way o do it then I guess is convince them not balancing isn’t profitable and balancing is profitable

[warm needle]

Jamcity doesn't seem to understand they would likely get more money from this game long term than they would from running it into the ground and chasing away its entire player base except for a few whales who will eventually get bored of fighting eachother

[hard fulcrum]

Whales?

[hushed peak]

*The only movie related thing.
Like seriously, do you want more lazy design + overpower creatures.
It would be the equivalent of adding two more velociraptors.

[hushed peak]

The old indo gen 2 had almost no counters. But ofc the current isn’t broken and is actually very balanced.

[hushed peak]

As far as I’m aware Ludia hasn’t done a meaningful nerf in a while.
Instead they introduce even more broken dinos every update.

[warm needle]

It's what people at the top who spend hundreds-thousands of dollars a month on the game are called

[hard fulcrum]

Two more velociraptors doesn’t sound like the end of the world lol

[hard fulcrum]

Park was far from lazy designed lmao

Park had designs made to look like real animals. World not so much, not to mention over use of cgi and fewer anamatronics.

[hard fulcrum]

Why are people that spend hundreds on a game called Whales?

[warm needle]

In terms of adding park dinos to the game, it's way easier than a new species

All you do is take an existing model, recolor it, and you're done

[hard fulcrum]

You could also do that to get around 30+ new creatures to. Just take an existing model and add or remove features from it and change the colors.
Or re-use old rigs that got changed.

[warm needle]

At least new dinos require a model change

[hard fulcrum]

How do you expect them to make the JP3 pteranodon? It doesn’t have a model that would fit the current pteranodon rig.

[hard fulcrum]

Elaborate?

[warm needle]

You can't copy paste a velo model and call it an Austroraptor

[hard fulcrum]

Well no technically. Park creatures are different enough anatomically to the World ones that you can’t just re-color a model. You could use the same rig but you’d have to change the model to be Park accurate.

[hard fulcrum]

Didn’t they do that for deinonychus and utahraptor, and dakotaraptor? They’re all same velociraptor rig and model but just modified a bit with different feather distribution.

[warm needle]

They all have actual physical differences though

Mostly head shape

[hard fulcrum]

Same model probably? Just modified in some places?

[warm needle]

Also this applies to the JP3 raptors and nothing else really

[hard fulcrum]

How different are the 3 raptors from any of the other raptors?

[warm needle]

They have a slightly different head shape

[hard fulcrum]

Iirc the game has 10 or so rigs that it just re-uses and each creature is just a modified model of an existing model

[warm needle]

Well obviously they reuse a base model for every creature

They only need to add or change specific details

[hard fulcrum]

From what I can see, the only thing they change with the base model is feathering, head shape, coloring, ornaments and that’s about it.

[warm needle]

For raptors maybe

Some other dinos have more variations that need to be made but most are usually something like that

[hard fulcrum]

Both allosaurus use the same model just modified differently.
All the tyrannosaurs use the same rig and model but modified.

[warm needle]

Yes

[hard fulcrum]

How they’d add in the Park pteranodon is beyond me though. Because it’s radically different from the existing pterosaur models.

But anything park related would be a modified model to an existing creature.

[warm needle]

How so?

All it's got is a big crest and I believe teeth for some odd reason

[hard fulcrum]

It had long bird like grasping legs

Huge hands and wrist separate from the wing, straight beak with teeth.

[warm needle]

Yeah it doesn't look so different

[hard fulcrum]

The head shape is also different. Besides the noticeable difference in their legs and wrists/hands.

[warm needle]

I don't really see the big difference

[hard fulcrum]

Look at the head shape, the hands, and the legs

They are distinct from each other.

The hands on world are smaller proportionally, the legs are less defined,
and the heads on world have a slight up curve to them while park is completely straight with a larger head relative to the body with a huge crest

[warm needle]

I feel like ludia would just use the different head shape and call it a day

[hard fulcrum]

The head is bigger relative to the body though

[hard fulcrum]

I look at way too many skeletals so slight differences are easier for me to spot

[hushed peak]

Still has tons of shrinkwrapping but that’s besides the point.
Why add two pointless Rexes when you could have something more interesting, like ceratosaurus and its mysterious relatives, except abelisaurids, which are already in JWA.

[balmy sky]

….

[hushed peak]

Two new velociraptors sounds like wasted potential.

[hushed peak]

I’m not saying JP had lazy designs even though some are questionable, but adding reskins in JWA and making them new creatures isn’t exactly creative.

[warm needle]

The skins would also give attention to many creatures that have fallen behind rather than add new broken ones, especially if a buff accompanied the release of the skin

Who even remembers things like pteranodon or rex gen 1 outside of any hybrids they have which only really applies to Trex now

Also Ludia has only given skins to legendary-apex while all the nonhybrids haven't gotten any attention with skins and adding movie skins would help start the trend so we can see more unique designs for neglected creatures

[surreal owl]

Per Ludia’s convention, canonical creatures aren’t skins but separate entities. If they wanted to do skins with the movie variants they would have very well made a generic Atrociraptor and have four skins for each of the Atrocis. They didn’t and I don’t see anyone complaining about that

[warm needle]

I would prefer having atrociraptor and 4 skins, it's not like I want all the world creatures in the game as separate entities and hate the park ones, I just don't think they will add anything of value if they don't negatively contribute to the game

[surreal owl]

im not saying that I want Buck and Doe added in a particularly 'valuable' or meta-defining way, there's been tons of creatures that have been added and both them and their hybrids have limited relevancy even in their own rarity tournaments, but even these creatures have a limited fanbase of people who are more than happy to level/boost them because they like their design, the same is the case with Buck and Doe, many people want to interact/level/play with Buck and Doe just because they like their design and not because they want something to dominate the meta

[warm needle]

The problem is being movie creatures with abnormally large fanbases in comparison to other creatures that people level due to a personal preference there would be more outcry if they weren't good and Ludia would definitely exploit them, a lot of people who would want buck and doe are the same people who wanted rexy and think it's balanced or even underpowered

A lot more players would be upset and ask for a buff if the JP3 raptor wasn't strong than if they added austroraptor and it was just as good as the other raptors

[surreal owl]

just because you really like a creature and think its design is amazing doesn't mean you would want it to be some extremely powerful being that can 3-0 teams, i think most players understand that such is bad for the game's overall playability

case in point, Blue is really mid compared to other epic cunnings and a lot of people love Blue and i've even raided with a 30/30 blue before, but the discord/forums (back in the day) weren't swamped with 'let's buff Blue' threads

[warm needle]

There are plenty who think this should be the case with rexy and they'll want the same for new movie creatures and the only reason blue isn't overpowered or has a broken is due to her age, blue and indo gen 2 had their time and probably never will again

[surreal owl]

i think after the IndoG2 fiasco people have had the opposite reaction really.. yeah theres a limited portion of people who want some insane buff on Rexy or Compyraptor, but the vast majority of the playerbase is asking for a slight rebalance without gutting them completely

im sure when people realise how broken pulmono is, there will be threads asking for its rebalance as well

[warm needle]

It's just not going to happen with how bad Ludia is at balancing this game recently, everything is just becoming progressively stronger over time with no sign of stopping and at this point anything new will be either super powerful or not useable, for example compare pyroraptor gen 2 and pulmonoscorpius

By spring time pulmono will be on the fringes of the epic meta if it's even viable by then

[surreal owl]

there's also middle ground like the Atrocis, OviG2, QuetzG2, Moros that were cool and brought something new to the game... i was grinding the epic tourney earlier and having them in some teams freshened up the playing experience compared to the familiar faces

[surreal owl]

thats the thing tho, the lower rarities have much more stable metas over time compared to the upper rarities, two years ago i was able to grind up pretty high with an epic team that had staples like Ankylodicirus, Thyla, Dimo, etc. and today those creatures are still on my team

[warm needle]

Not anymore since all they add each update is 2-4 epics and maybe a rare if we're lucky

Thyla is also probably going to be outcompeted by pulmono once people get it

The only thing pulmono does worse against than thyla is diplod

[surreal owl]

part of pulmono's problem stems from it being a flock, in particular a fierce flock which never should have existed because absorb, by nature, was intended as a cunning trait

the point im getting to is that Buck and Doe won't be flock creatures and with so many flock options in epic atm (compy, teryx, pulmono) they won't be a problem

[warm needle]

I think other class flocks are fine and can even help counter all the cunning ones, pulmono's real problem is the counter and enfeebling impact

[surreal owl]

thats true, enfeebling definitely needs a delay and it shouldn't do a ton of things in a move

[warm needle]

Something doesn't have to be a flock to be broken and they will almost certainly have a group attack and dot resistance which will annihilate pulmono and compy/teryx would be more debatable

If compy is getting hit with 2700+ damage before it can act it will definitely lose while teryx will probably need to have 2 flock members left at the end of turn 1 to survive

[surreal owl]

ofc not, but historically in lower rarities the most powerful creatures to dominate the meta have been flocks (teryx, compy when it was released, compyG2, etc)

[surreal owl]

there's no way Buck and Doe are gonna be faster than Compy, rexes base speed is always 102-106 tops

[warm needle]

Compy gen 2 doesn't really dominate rare, suchot,doed,dread, even purrolyth and alberto do well against it

[warm needle]

They'll probably have priority or speed increase, even if they don't have an existing one they will definitely be given some variant of roar

[surreal owl]

morty's roar has no speed increase and the attack buff comes after the damage, there's no way an epic creatures move is gonna be equal to or better than its apex counterpart's

even if Buck and Doe are given some roar variant (which seems super unlikely given that none of the other epic/rare tyrannosaurs have one), it'd prob be defense shattering priority group attack, no buff

a simple hop and mock, evasive stance, camo or ID would take care of it

[warm needle]

All the other epic and rare tyrannosaurs are from the first few updates of the game and Ludia can't be bothered to buff them, and epics better than apexes is nothing new

[warm needle]

Still comes down to predictions, just like with rexy

This is roughly how I imagine Ludia would make these two if they were added in the next several updates

[surreal owl]

in fact a great analogy for Buck and Doe would be Giga since its 1) released recently 2) epic rarity 3) exclusive 4) movie creature 5) massive fanbase... aside from the health stat which is a bit excessive, id say Giga is a pretty nice option for epic tourneys

cool concepts, but encouraging roar is kind of a clone of DR (should lose the speedup) and decimating hunger and the counter are a bit excessive on Buck

[warm needle]

Giga is still top of the meta without hybrids and its niche as the only 100% scorpion killer will make it meta in hybrid as teryx and tops are pushed down

[surreal owl]

none of its moves cleanse, its a solid tank buster but gets walled by cunnings

[warm needle]

It's strike cleanses

[surreal owl]

Buck and Doe would likely also be giga alternatives whilst getting walled by cunnings

[surreal owl]

after the hit, which makes distraction super effective against it

its so slow you can speed tie it with rexG1 and smash it

[warm needle]

Don't forget that without hybrids being allowed your only cunning is compy or maybe anuro if you really need a second one and it isn't one shot by buck and doe

[surreal owl]

lystro and cunnings that can stack distraction like monolopho would prob also do fairly well

wooly with that 1.5k swap in could easily finish once buck and doe are whittled down enough

[warm needle]

Giga does however happen to have 8 possible options that it can swap to, all of which destroy cunnings

Not to mention aside from compy and anuro, most epic cunnings suck

[hard fulcrum]

Skins won’t give the Park creatures the attention they deserve actually.

[hard fulcrum]

Yes they are separate entities. Ludia if they are separate entities they end up their own creature. Look at World Game and Evolution.

[hard fulcrum]

Preferring movie dino to be skins isn’t going to happen because if you look at Ludia it is very consistent that movie creatures are never skins.

[hard fulcrum]

I honestly do not see the majority of the player base being opposed to more movie creatures. The people who don’t seem to be a vocal minority online.

Let’s not forget that World wouldn’t even exist without Park. World should respect where it came from.

[hard fulcrum]

There are balanced ways to make them. I don’t think they’d get dominant roar. But roar could work maybe?

[hard fulcrum]

Have you thought about making them dual class?

One cunning fierce the other resilient fierce. That way they don’t end up being too similar in skill set.

I could see counter vulnerability working if it doesn’t have to high an attack stat and a 2-3 turn cooldown on its fierce move.

[hard fulcrum]

More common and rare additions to the game would be nice.

[hard fulcrum]

How big was pulmono? Because they could always do what Jurassic does and oversize them so it’s not a flock anymore.

Moros should not have been a flock. They should have used the correct size rather than the juvenile size from dominion.

[hard fulcrum]

Everyone older than 10

[hard fulcrum]

Feathered Velociraptor skin that’s accurate I want

[hard fulcrum]

World arguably has more shrink wrapping than Park

Because during Park time shrink wrapping was the norm. At World time we knew better but world shrink wrapped anyway.

[hard fulcrum]

Accurate Deinochirus and Spinosaurus skins would be nice.

[warm needle]

This isn't how I would make them, this is how I think Ludia would do it and they have never made a large theropod dual class and giving them cunning or resilient moves would only make them more unkillable for other epics

[hard fulcrum]

Then you limit their fierce moves to 1 move with a cooldown and delay

[warm needle]

I don't mean the movie versions of them, I was talking about the ones in the game that are terrible and have no good hybrids

[hard fulcrum]

Oh tbh their hybrids aren’t that good either. Pteranodon or the raptor squad.

[warm needle]

Then you would have a bulky, very high damage resilient that also has a shattering rampage that allows it to kill all the other resilients while at the same time dealing with cunnings

[hard fulcrum]

Charlie and Blue’s hybrids kind of suck.

Delta is only useful for Allod and Echo for IndoT

[hard fulcrum]

So how could make a balanced dual type epic rex?

[warm needle]

All the raptor squad hybrids used to be good, indo gen 2 was top of the meta, gamma and indom gen 2 were good before and I'm pretty sure alloraptor was useful at one point

[hard fulcrum]

Charlie or his hybrid need a new hybrid or something to make them not suck. Because right now Charlie and his hybrid are kind of useless.

[hard fulcrum]

Gamma?

[warm needle]

Charlie's hybrid with erlikosaurus gen 2

[vital helm]

I have

[warm needle]

For starters don't give it over 1600 damage at most, it depends on which class it will be aside from fierce

[hard fulcrum]

Is 1300 damage reasonable for a dual class epic Tex?

[warm needle]

To us yes, but not to ludia

[hard fulcrum]

Would 1200-1300 work better if it’s half cunning or half resilient

[warm needle]

Really depends on moveset

[hard fulcrum]

How much so?

[warm needle]

Like does it have any ferocious boosts, rampages, devour, a counter, etc

[vital helm]

Attack buffs, healing, priority, and speed are the main concerns. Even if a chomper has consistent rampages they can still be dealt with simply by using a faster creature that can lower its output effectively.

It's also hard to RK with them without taking damage in the process

[warm needle]

I still think it's unreasonable to wish for a balanced dual class when Ludia would make them pure fierce and would only use another class to make them able to counter anything they couldn't as pure fierces

[hard fulcrum]

RK?

[vital helm]

Revenge kill

[vital helm]

If you want a pure fierce epic chomper we already have Giga, Allo G2, Rex, and Acro. If Buck and Doe do make their way into the game they should at least add something new.

[hard fulcrum]

World favoritism

They’ll probably add in all the park creatures next year because it’s Park’s anniversary year.

They might not be adding Cerato corytho or mammenchi and the other park pop culture icons until Park’s 30th anniversary.

I just learned the Atrociraptor weren’t even named in film cannon. So they shouldn’t have been 4 atroci because 3 of them look alike. Ghost could be atroci and the generic red ones could be atroci gen2

I want an Atrociraptor skin with feathers now

[warm needle]

Idk how many times we've told you we don't like character dinos from either series

[hushed peak]

At the time of JP the dinosaurs looked like giant iguanas with lips, a far cry from the malnourished, more bird-like dinosaurs of JP.

[hard fulcrum]

I don’t think you’ve seen an iguana if you think all the JP designs look like bipedal iguanas lol

JP was ahead of its time because it broke away from bipedal tail dragging swap iguanas. It was at the time the most accurate dino thing.
Minus the velociraptor, and pteranodon. Which looked nothing like their real life fossils.

[hard fulcrum]

You mean CC?

[warm needle]

I mean JP and JW

[hard fulcrum]

I assumed you meant CC because to me film/trilogy and series are different things.

[warm needle]

Adding character dinos from either has a pretty high chance of doing no good at all and pretty much encourages broken cash grabs

[hard fulcrum]

We’re the raptor squad broken when they were first introduced?

[warm needle]

No because that was old ludia

The raptor squad was all the way back in 1.1-1.3 or something

[hard fulcrum]

How many years ago was that?

[warm needle]

This is 2.19, and now that Jamcity is here we won't have that kind of scenario ever again

[hushed peak]

I said when they made JP, most paleoart consisted of iguana looking dinosaurs. Not that JP’s dinosaurs looked like iguanas.
Point is they look like they’re starving, which could work for the first film since they were in a zoo, but past then they shouldn’t have been as shrinkwrapped.

[warm needle]

About 4 and a half

[hard fulcrum]

When did Jam takeover? 1-2 years ago?

[warm needle]

May of 2021 so about a year and a half

[hard fulcrum]

Is there a way to pressure a good gaming company to Buy Ludia so it can be balanced again?

[warm needle]

Unless you got a couple hundred thousand people willing to support you, no

Plus Jamcity would have to be the ones who agree to sell ludia so maybe more

[hard fulcrum]

Imo 3 of the atrociraptors and 2 of the raptor squad just look identical. Far cry from when they made effort to differentiate members of the same species.

[warm needle]

The raptor squad are essentially the same situation

[hard fulcrum]

The raptor and atroci squad are all re-colors of each other.

[warm needle]

You could not find any model differences in the 5 og velos

[hard fulcrum]

Wish they had more distunguaishing extra features.

[warm needle]

Yeah that's one reason we don't like them, they're lazy recolors that make Jamcity thousands of dollars despite being so low effort

[hard fulcrum]

The Park ones had some differences in their head and body shape between the films.

[hushed peak]

Tbh they could’ve been skins for the raptor squad instead of separate entities.

[hard fulcrum]

Imagine of Jam made the raptor and atroci squad become changed to a 4 flock

[warm needle]

Now that would be complete insanity

We don't need flocks of 4

[hushed peak]

This looks like something they would do

[hard fulcrum]

I mean who’s saying they wouldn’t.

[warm needle]

They can't do it now that they're already in the game

[hard fulcrum]

Who says they can’t?

Just make 3 new dromaeosaurs to replace Charlie echo and delta, and turn the raptor squad into a flock. Make 3 new dromaeosaurs to replace panther tiger and red and turn the atroci into a flock

[hushed peak]

They can remove creatures. When ankylodicurus was first introduced they accidentally removed ankylocodon.

[warm needle]

That kind of change is probably impossible to code and destroys multiple hybrids by making 4 creatures into one

They can remove creatures but it would be unethical

If someone spent money on a dino, ludia deletes it, they literally robbed them

[hard fulcrum]

How is removing a creature from a game unethical?

[warm needle]

Depending on the dino you're essentially stealing thousands of dollars

Maybe tens of thousands if they did it to Rexy

[warm needle]

Think of all the people who spend money and boosts and allod,indot,indo and indom gen 2 and more, they just lost all of that and their team members

[vital helm]

Imagine Echo getting deleted and someone with their lvl 28 Indotaurus either has the creature deleted or it's impossible to fuse for it.

[hard fulcrum]

They replace Charlie echo and delta with 3 new dromaeosaurs so their hybrids don’t disappear.

[warm needle]

So just rename them

[warm needle]

I think rexy cost about 3000$ to max

And I guess remodel them

Ok yeah taking that route seems fair, just change the creature into a new one over deleting it's code and adding a new one

[hard fulcrum]

They’d need feathers and a different body and head shape

[warm needle]

Then that would affect their hybrids, but in my opinion a feathered alloraptor would look interesting

[vital helm]

A few hybrids may need some model changes along with it, Alloraptor is just a JW raptor with more lizard and crocodilian features.

[hard fulcrum]

Feathered Alloraptor would be dope

Feathered skins for all the velociraptor and Atrociraptor when

[hushed peak]

I wonder if they could at least make a skin for alloraptor with feathers.

[hard fulcrum]

Accurate Spino and Chirus skins when?

[warm needle]

They probably won't do that, especially for the movie ones

[hard fulcrum]

Feathered Alloraptor skin make it happen Ludia

[warm needle]

That would require and entire remodel and new animations

[hushed peak]

Spino would probably need a new model because of the proportions.

[hard fulcrum]

Deinochirus also has weird anatomy

[hushed peak]

Yeah, they should’ve used the spinosaurus base model for it. It would’ve looked more like the real animal.

[hard fulcrum]

Spino base model for deinochirus? That would look better.. but still off. Could Ludia change Chirus to look like Spino? How reasonable is that?

Would also affect Dilorach but would be an interesting change

[hard fulcrum]

Ludia’s How to Train your Dragon game also functions like Alive, but infinitely way worse. Every single minute difference in a dragon’s design it’s a different collectible dragon. Some dragons even have multiple creatures because “they’re different ages” or “it has an accessory”. So you have so you have 4 versions of not the same species, but 4 versions of the exact same individual.

At least with Alive the gen2 and named creatures are justified by looking different (for the most part, the raptor and atrci squads are just re-colors). Rather than being the exact same creature just at a different life stage or same creature with with an accessory.

In the Luida Rise of Berk httyd game you have, I’m not joking, 50 of the same species of dragon as collectible creatures.
6 velociraptor would be infinitely more tolerable than having 30-40 velociraptors.
But I don’t want to give Ludía any ideas on having 20 T. rex in the game so…

Could you imagine if Ludia’s Alive took a page from Ludia’s HtTyD game and gave us 30-60 collectible creatures of the same species.
Each individual velociraptor from the OG film would be their own creature, then each individual velociraptor from the Lost Wolrd would be their own creature, then every velociraptor from the 3rd film would be their own creature.
That would be Alive running on the HttyD Rise of Berk game mechanics.

[warm needle]

That sounds like one of the worst ideas they could ever do, we would probably be able to add every known dromaeosaurid in place of all those velociraptors

[hard fulcrum]

I don’t know why but the thought just suddenly crossed my mind upon seeing both games are made by Ludia

[hard fulcrum]

Let’s hope Alive doesn’t take a page from Rise of Berk because 40 velociraptor or 20 T. rex would be complete overkill.

[warm needle]

I think 10 velos and 6 rexes is probably overkill as well

[hard fulcrum]

Having the exact same individual being treated as 4 creatures should never happen in Alive

[warm needle]

They wouldn't do that, the only ones I could see that being done to is the raptor squad and a baby blue is literally what beta is

[hard fulcrum]

You never know they might do it eventually

[hard fulcrum]

Imagine them adding in baby Bumpy and baby Angel and rebel as their own creatures. Then adding in their adult versions as well

Worse adding baby Rexy as it’s own creature

[warm needle]

I think they will add an adult spinoceratops but rebel and angle being their own things is not impossible

[hard fulcrum]

Spinoceratops i think could be made from Spino gen2 and Sinoceratops

[warm needle]

Also baby bumpy could be added if they actually decided to make multiple versions of the same individual

[hard fulcrum]

Maybe we should stop giving ludia ideas on adding in baby versions of existing creatures as their own thing 😂

[warm needle]

They don't really listen to these threads anyway, the way I see it this channel is mostly for debate among the community

[hard fulcrum]

Why have a suggestions chat if they don’t listen anyway?

I would not want baby Rexy, or baby blue, or baby bumpy added to the game.

[warm needle]

Beta : am i a joke to you?

The mods respond to a few but I seriously doubt Ludia actually ever considers any of the suggestions posted on this server, it's been here since August but we haven't seen anything from this server in 2.18 and 2.19

[hard fulcrum]

No I meant Alive having both baby blue and beta in the game as individual creatures.

[warm needle]

ah

[hard fulcrum]

We’d have 9 velociraptor if they gave us baby versions of the raptor squad. No way anyone wants baby Rexy either.

[warm needle]

We'd also have 9 if they added every movie variant

[hard fulcrum]

No we’d only have 7

[versed gazelle]

They should add more hybrid variety like a common turtle or a common snake

[warm needle]

We never see baby rexy unlike bumpy and the raptors so they probably wouldn't add it

[hard fulcrum]

Whatever the common one is based on? Plus the raptor squad, plus the 2 sequel films.

The game needs more commons and rares in general

[warm needle]

You have the male and female from JP3, the one from the original park and the tiger raptor

[hard fulcrum]

Isn’t the common in alive the model from the original park?

[warm needle]

It's just a monotone beige color while the original park one is a darker brown with a light underbelly

[hard fulcrum]

Then you make the male the base model and the female a skin.Or make the female the base model and the male a skin.
That way it’s only 1 new raptor and not 2. Either that or make it a flock but that’s unlikely and prolly worse.

[hard fulcrum]

Maybe they could re model the alive one to look like the OG park raptors so there’s no need for a new raptor to look like the OG park, or make the OG park model a skin on the common raptor?
Still want feathered velociraptor skin that gives it wings, a tail fan, and the correct head shape…

Can a creature have 2 skins? That way the common raptor can be feathered or the OG park raptor.

Or just re model the common raptor to be the OG park raptor.

[warm needle]

They could add a realistic raptor as a flock with the correct size as well

[hard fulcrum]

This is a great idea. And fitting because the real one really was small.

So make an accurate velociraptor or accurate generic velociraptorine as a flock, then have the OG park raptor as a skin on the common raptor. Or re model the common one to look like Park.
That leaves the Lost World and 3 ones as potential new species. Like they could take the Lost World and JP3 raptors and call them a different dromaeosaur species.

The L W or JP3 raptors could work for Dromaeosaurus and Archeobelator if you use them as is, or slap wing and tail feathers on them.

For some reason Mee6 thinks writing L W as one word is obscene content.

[warm needle]

I think this would be good, also counters coel but isn't too strong against resilients

[hard fulcrum]

Why only 2 attacks? Could it work as a crepuscular rare?

Velociraptor was adapted for low light conditions so being nocturnal or crepuscular would fit it well.

We have a common velociraptor, so I’m just curious why this one is also common.

[warm needle]

It could spawn at dawn and dusk, but I think we really need more commons and we already have velociraptors in every rarity, the only one without more than one velociraptor is common

[hard fulcrum]

True dromaeosaurs also seem to be fairly common fossils

[hard fulcrum]

Why only 2 attacks and no cunning move?

[hard fulcrum]

What do you think a balanced Buck and Doe could look like? If they were mix class epic.

[warm needle]

It's a common so it can only have 2 moves and devious strike might be too powerful so I could give it cunning strike instead

[hard fulcrum]

Do all commons only have 2 moves?

[warm needle]

Yes, that's the main difference between them and the epics and rares

[hushed peak]

I thought of something, wouldn’t the baby rex be a decent addition to the game? I mean its proportions are different from the adults and we know Ludia can make base models smaller like with Beta.

[warm needle]

That will just open the door for any other babies, we'd get baby bumpy, raptors, and all the other babies in the movies that would probably end up being flocks

I hope we don't end up seeing the day when baby dinosaurs are killing uniques like indoraptor or pterovexus

[hard fulcrum]

^this

@hushed peak adding in 1 baby creature means adding in baby creatures for 30 creatures. Why add baby rex when they could add qhianzhao or other basal tyrannosaurs.

[warm needle]

The same goes for junior from the lost world

[hard fulcrum]

Repeated addition of Baby flock creatures would be the end of the game.

[hard fulcrum]

Though they already added in Beta

So they technically already have baby versions in the game.

[warm needle]

They might keep adding them especially if they decide to add spinoceratops and the 2 babies from the show

[warm needle]

Also this is the exact logic behind one of the reasons not to add buck and doe over unique animals

[hushed peak]

I meant the one from the lost world.
Besides the same logic can be applied to Buck and Doe, there could be more interesting creatures than another Tyrannosaurus rex. But if there has to be one more, I’d prefer it to be junior over the adults.

[hard fulcrum]

I mean ludia is prolly going to add in grim chaos and limbo as their own thing anyway.
Not to mention add in Spinoceratops along with Angel and Rebel

Wrong chat

[hard fulcrum]

No it’s different actually. Because adding in 2 more adults is different form adding in 30 babies.

Could see Junior be more interesting addition than his parents due to different anatomy and skill set.

[warm needle]

Adding 2 more adults also allows a lot of reskins to be added, if you're against every baby being added then why do you want every adult?

[hard fulcrum]

Besides modeling in Junior means modeling in the anatomy of a juvenile T. rex, which would mean possibly adding in basal 15 tyrannosaurs.

[warm needle]

You just said junior would lead to 30 other babies being added which is a bad idea

[warm needle]

Those could easily be small theropod rig

[hard fulcrum]

That was before I realized that a juvenile T. rex has different proportions. Which rigging and modeling that could mean adding in a lot of more basal tyrannosaurs.

[hard fulcrum]

The small theropod rig doesn’t work for a juvenile T. rex though.

You can’t take a Dilo or Mono rig and say it’s a juvenile T. rex.

The raja and caro rigs would also work horribly for a juvenile T. rex.

[hard fulcrum]

A juvenile Rex would end up being its own rig and model, which would mean the potential for new creatures.
Junior definitely would have the most potential if added to the game because making a young Rex opens the gates to other tyrannosaurs.

[hard fulcrum]

I’m against baby versions of existing creatures being added, not Park creatures.

We have plenty of gen 2 creatures and only 1 pteranodon in game. Having a gen 2 pteranodon modeled after Park would fit because plenty of other creatures have gen 2s

Baryonyx never needed a gen 2 anyway. Because we don’t have anything that looks like it in World.

And I have zero idea where the current gen 2 Rex design came form

[hard fulcrum]

None of these rigs would work for a juvenile T. rex

Because a juvenile T. rex had different anatomy.

[paper valve]

they can do what they did with beta and just size them down lmao

[hard fulcrum]

Except juvenile Rex don’t look like miniature versions of the adults

[paper valve]

well beta doesn’t really look like the other ones either. she looks like an actual cartoon.

yet with flocks (noticibly the compies) they gave them the same animations, just sped up

[hard fulcrum]

Somehow I thought Junior had a different head shape. No he doesn’t the film makers apparently had no idea what otogeny was

[hard fulcrum]

Wait beta looks like a cartoon character?

[hushed peak]

Wait it has the same head shape? I thought it had at least a shorter skull.

[hard fulcrum]

What are you talking about?

[hushed peak]

The head shape of Junior.
From what I remember it had a blunt snout for some reason and large eyes, kinda like a puppy.

[hard fulcrum]

I just looked up images of Junior. The film makers apparently didn’t know juvenile Rex had more elongate snouts, longer legs, and slender bodies. Because his head makes him look like a pug.

Okay turns out we didn’t have good fossils of juvenile T. rex during Lost World production.

[paper valve]

i haven’t actually looked at beta in forever. her icon makes her look a lot like a cartoon lmao.

still, she looks a bit… “chunkier” compared to the other raptors. i don’t see how it’d be an issue to just copy the animations or “size them down” for junior

[hard fulcrum]

I mean to be accurate to Lost World they would have to butcher a juvenile T. rex so badly that it makes them look like pugs.

Was hoping they’d make Junior actually look like a juvenile Rex instead of a shinrken down T. rex crossed with a pug.

[paper valve]

he does look a little funny LOL

jurassic park was never really accurate with their dinosaurs anyways

[hushed peak]

Well it was accurate for the time.

[hard fulcrum]

Actually Jurassic Park was accurate for the time it came out.

[paper valve]

but wasn’t the dilophosaurus debunked before the movie came out?

[hard fulcrum]

The only things not accurate were the stuff in the third film.

[hard fulcrum]

No that wasn’t until after. We revised dilo long after the trilogy finished

[paper valve]

ahhh i see. i thought that was debunked but they still added it for fear factor

[hard fulcrum]

Dilo was accurate for the time, just smaller than it should be, and it had a frill. Other than that it was accurate.

The frill was actually speculation and not debunked till after. The size was justified as it being not fully grown.

[hard fulcrum]

So everything in the original Jurassic park was accurate for the time the film came out. The only inaccuracies being creatures being too large or too small. Because it was actually Deinonychus but they called it velociraptor because “it sounds cooler”.

Lost World was also accurate for the time except for its pteranodon at the end, our knowledge of young T. rex wasn’t really good then. Then came P3 and while it gets most things right for the most part the spino was exaggerated, and the pteranodon was butchered to look “scarier”.

But seriously Junior looks like a shrunken adult T. rex from JP, crossed with a pug.
It would be infinitely better if they added Junior with the anatomy of an actual juvenile T. rex.

I’m sorry Junior but you look so ugly.

[hushed peak]

I wouldn’t say an exact downsize of tyrannosaurus. Its arms and legs look proportionally longer than the ones of its parents.
Well mostly the arms.

[hard fulcrum]

He’s so ugly

His parents at least are pleasing to look at

That’s it petition to stop alive from adding in things that look as ugly as Junior unless they fix the design first
/for legal reasons this is a joke

[hard fulcrum]

Not going to lie. Beta looks kind of ugly

[hushed peak]

At least the shot isn’t when it’s crying.
But dinosaurs with precocial and anatomically different juveniles could be interesting.

[hard fulcrum]

The shot?

[hushed peak]

I mean there’s a scene where it’s crying and looks horrendous.

[hard fulcrum]

I mean both crocodilians and birds take care of their young. We also have a good amount of evidence that dinosaurs did take care of their young and their young had different anatomy to their adults.

Oh gosh now I’m scared to see a screen cap of crying beta? Or are you talking about Junior?

[hushed peak]

I’m talking about Junior.

[hard fulcrum]

We have evidence that tyrannosaurs most likely lived in groups of different ages, meaning possible parental care. Or they were just social creatures.

[hushed peak]

I know, what I meant is some dinosaurs would have been more like geese, being able to walk almost as soon as they’re out of the shell. But some dinosaurs may have stayed longer in the nest like a lot of flying birds.

[hard fulcrum]

Dromaeosaurs are so closely related to birds they possibly had young that acted like them?

[warm needle]

I meant other basal tyrannosaurs like guanlong and dilong

[hushed peak]

Most likely would be microraptor and other possibly flying dromeosaur had babies like flying birds.

[warm needle]

Pretty sure procerato is an early tyrannosaur and it has the small theropod animation

[hushed peak]

Well in JWTG guanlong has the same rig as dilophosaurus.

[warm needle]

I kind of like the unique gen 2s that have their own coloring made by Ludia since it gives the feeling of these animals starting to adapt and change to fit the modern world which can be adied by their descriptions like irrtator's which states that the gen 2 is adapted for grasslands

[hard fulcrum]

What?

[warm needle]

While the gen 2 creatures can be used as a way to get movie creatures in the game I think Ludia's original ones are still good as long as there aren't too many of them

[hard fulcrum]

Wait there’s 2 irritator?

[hard fulcrum]

I mean allosaurus having a gen 2 made sense. The big rock and dominion one. The Baryonyx literally had no reason for a gen2 outside of the CC Baryonyx.

[warm needle]

There are 19 gen 2s that aren't movie skins for a species

[warm needle]

You could say the same about compy,dime,diploc,dilo,haast,anky,stygi and all the others

[hard fulcrum]

We have that many gen 2s?

Which creatures have gen 2 that aren’t a movie skin?

[hard fulcrum]

Aren’t the gen 2 comsugnathjs the ones form Lost World? The epic one is the gen 2 one right?

[warm needle]

Rare is gen 2

[hard fulcrum]

I have no idea what majority of theses abbreviations are.

Which are the 19 gen2 not movie based?

[warm needle]

Titanoboa, purrusaurus, triceratops, rex, dimetrodon, diplocaulus, irritator, monolophosaurus, dilophosaurus, erlikosaurus, koolasuchus, ankylosaurus, baryonyx, dracorex, stygimoloch, haast eagle, compsognathus, spinosaurus, and the 3 hybrids from the franchise

[hard fulcrum]

Half of those creatures never appeared in World… are the gen 2 supposed to represent them diversifying?

[warm needle]

They probably are, I assume in that context the rarity of a creature implies what its wild populations are like

[hard fulcrum]

Dracorex also isn’t even a valid species. But Stygimoloch might be

[hard fulcrum]

Oh that’s sounds like a cool world building aspect

[warm needle]

They have troodon as well, at least they won't be adding nanotyrannus

[hard fulcrum]

If alive is supposed to represent the world of Jurassic… how many Jurassic franchise animals are they going to add? When they ever get around to that.

[hard fulcrum]

I would not at all be surprised if they don’t know nanotyrannus isn’t a thing and add it to the game.
Also Troodontid is valid but not Troodon

[warm needle]

I think they have every on screen species in the game already aside from corytho, mamenchi and cerato

[hard fulcrum]

Northosaurus

[warm needle]

What movie was that in?

Or did you mean nothosaurus?

[hard fulcrum]

Auto correct

What if they changed the gen 2 Baryonyx model into the CC one?

Just change the name on the gen2 Bary and it’s one of the Bary trio form CC

[hard fulcrum]

That’s one species they haven’t added. Is CC getting another season? Because that would mean more creatures to add. Also the CC smilodon doesn’t look like the one in Alive.

[warm needle]

I don't think there will be another season after they pretty much ended it in 5

[hard fulcrum]

They still need mammenci, notho, cerato, and crytho

Then that’s all of the on screen Jurassic creatures.

Then they add in the other park models. Like park pteranodon as gen2.

Then you fuse gen 2 pteranodon with something? to get a hybrid form World game with a pterosaur component.

[warm needle]

I think they really should be skins, the movie variants can be added as skins while new species can't and I would rather get a new skins for an underappreciated epic and nyctosaurus or barbaridactylus than a second pteranodon

[hard fulcrum]

I want Alive to add in more creatures form the World Game. It has a lot more creatures. Plus a lot of cool looking hybrids.

[hard fulcrum]

Pteranodon doesn’t have a gen 2, plus like you said there’s 19 creature that have skins that aren’t from a movie

[warm needle]

We need more amphibians and the world game has plenty of them

[hard fulcrum]

Add in park creatures while adding in creatures from World Game. Kill two birds at once make everyone happy.

Speaking of World game also needs mammenci it lacks it.

[hard fulcrum]

True alive needs more amphibians. But what I meant is World Game has more species than Alive. So they could add in the species from World to Alive so we have more species in the Alive roster.

[warm needle]

It's kind of interesting that plenty of JWA creatures have been imported there but no JWTG creatures have been added to this game

[hard fulcrum]

The alive models came before they added them to World?

[warm needle]

They added stuff like dilophoboa, megistocurus and spinotasuchus to the game after alive although I can't remember if mammotherium came to alive or world first

[hard fulcrum]

Would love for Alive to add in the creatures from World Game. They don’t have to use the exact models and rigs. But just importing them to Alive would be cool.

Same for Evolution, Operation Genesis, and Primal Ops. Alive could import the models from those games so we have more creatures.

[warm needle]

Actually mammotherium was originally a world hybrid that was added to alive

[hard fulcrum]

Now that I know alive can import stuff from World game, I think it would be a great way to add in new creatures. It would also be more likely for ludia because it’s cheaper to re use models across games. As much as I’d love them to add them in from World after modifying them.

Alive could import in creatures from Evo and Ops to.

[warm needle]

Most of the ops designs were either bad or stolen from JWE

[hard fulcrum]

True Ops ended in a train wreck

If Alive imports in stuff from World and Evolution then they could add in 50+ creatures not currently existing species.

Adding in park creatures while also adding in 50+ creatures not existing in alive yet could be a great way to do that.

That way the park ones don’t stand out and overshadow the other cool creatures that end up being added.

[warm needle]

If Ludia doesn't break them

[hard fulcrum]

I know I would love to see Yutyrannus and Yudon in Alive.

Going to start a thread of all the World and Evolution creatures I want to see in Alive

[hard fulcrum]

I mean I’m hoping Alive won’t break the creatures from World of Evolution.

[hard fulcrum]

You already said that alive has 19 non movie creatures with gen2 variants. Which could have been fulfilled by related species. Add in in the Park Pteranodon could work. An idea would be to re market the Park Pteranodon as Ludodactylus or Geostemburgia

Re marketing the Park pteranodon as Ludodactylus or Geostemburgia could be a brilliant way to add it to the game.

[warm needle]

But it's neither of those things and all the inaccurate things about it will be even worse if it's marketed as a real species

[hard fulcrum]

World and Alive doesn’t even get a lot of its models right for the creature it’s supposed to be.

[warm needle]

Also if the design is really so iconic many people will realize that it's the JP3 pteranodon being called geosternbergia for some reason

[hard fulcrum]

True the Park designs are iconic to people a huge amount of people older than 10.

[warm needle]

Alive is surprisingly accurate for a Jurassic World game at least when it comes to feathering

[hard fulcrum]

Pronation Dominon stuff anyway despite Dominion not pronating anything.

[warm needle]

Then they will notice and be upset when you try to call one of their favorite classics a different species without much of a good reason for not adding an actual ludodactylus or geosternbergia

[hard fulcrum]

It’s not that accurate since a lot of creatures have re-used models.

[hard fulcrum]

Yet they didn’t feather Troodon at all. Despite it being the sister taxon to birds.

[hard fulcrum]

I mean the JP pteranodon has teeth when it’s not supposed to. Ludodactylus looks like pteranodon with teeth.

[warm needle]

I said for a Jurassic World game, not overall, you have to admit they do a better job than JWE does with accuracy

[hard fulcrum]

Oh I hate Evolutions tadpole lizard deinonychus

[warm needle]

They only introduced feathers because dominion did and it would be weird if pyroraptor and therizino didn't have them

[hard fulcrum]

Haven’t played Evolution in years because it wasn’t fun anymore. How is Alive doing better than Evolution now in terms of accurate?

[hard fulcrum]

Oh I’ve seen Evolution’s feathered skins. They are all aweful. The models in Evolution I see from social media posts always look so ugly.

[warm needle]

It's mainly just the feathers, most non movie species that should have feathers do while JWE has never added them until dominion

[hard fulcrum]

Now just make alive un pronate the arms of their models.

[warm needle]

They probably won't rework every bipedal dinosaur animation for a small change that only a tiny fraction of their audience would be excited or care about

[hard fulcrum]

You keep harping to not add in park stuff add in new species. The best way to appease people who want that is to add in the park models and brand them as a different but related species.

That way they can be in the game respected as their own species instead of a paywalled skin no one cares for

[warm needle]

That doesn't make any sense and will only anger both communities, fans of new species will be mad they got an inaccurate movie design for a different species while park fans will be mad one of the movie creatures is being branded as an actual animal when that's not what it was

[hard fulcrum]

Ludo even has a head similar to the P3 pteranodon.

[hard fulcrum]

No it’s the best way to appease both communities actually

No one wants a paywalled pass skin that people won’t care for.

[warm needle]

If they said they were going to add daspletosaurus but it's just the rex from JP3 would you be happy with that?

[hard fulcrum]

Literally I don’t see anyone who cares for skins. I only care for skins because skins to make things accurate.

[hard fulcrum]

It would appease both parties so yes

You get your park creatures and a new species to the game. Appeases both parties.

[warm needle]

No one wants a paywalled reskin that stagnates the meta and gets an even worse hybrid

[hard fulcrum]

Then add in Deinochirus gen 2 and make it accurate using the spino model

Modify the 2 Spino models to be accurate also. Just shrink the hind legs and add a paddle tail because that’s all alive would do honestly.

[warm needle]

At this point it's just cheap way to make a "new" species by recoloring an existing model

[hard fulcrum]

I have no idea what that has to do with addin in park stuff as new species.

[hard fulcrum]

Alive makes new creatures by re coloring existing models already

[warm needle]

They don't do that for new species since they're all different, how could you make antarctopelta and ankylosaurus by recoloring one model?

[warm needle]

It's literally false advertising by saying we'll get one animal when they actually give us a completely different one that might not even look like the species it apparently is

Aside from pteranodon none of the movie creatures resemble any real species well enough to get passed off as any of them

[hard fulcrum]

The Velcoiraptor is literally a featherless Deinonychus

This isn’t something new Jurassic franchise has been doing this for decades. Make something not look right, and call it something else that sounds cooler.

[warm needle]

They already have deinonychus

[hard fulcrum]

Not entirely true. There are enough species that look similar enough that they could reasonably be branded as World’ take on the species

Because we know World didn’t make things look like what they were supposed to.

Just brand them as World’s take on that species and people will belive it

Their Baryonyx doesn’t even look like a Baryonyx.

[warm needle]

JWA doesn't do a world take on everything, if they did we wouldn't have feathers on the dromaeosaurs,ornithominids,or therizinosaurs

[hard fulcrum]

The gallimimus is featherless

Give it a gen 2 with feathers.

[warm needle]

Because it appears in the movies so they used that version

[hard fulcrum]

The oviraptor 1 had wings the gen 2 didn’t.
Theri also lacks wings. Make another with wings.

I do like the idea of Alive adding in a gen 2 of World film creatures but make them accurate.

[warm needle]

The designs are still recognizable, if you added the tiger raptor but called it dromaeosaurus no one would fall for it

[hard fulcrum]

A child might fall for it. But your right a ton of people would get mad at alive online

[winged glade]

You’re forgetting which franchise you’re talking about

[surreal owl]

In celebration of 100 days of asking for Buck and Doe, we'll be hosting a Buck and Doe concept contest! React with the 🦖 emoji to show support for your favourite concepts

[dawn surge]

Here's mine again. They follow the philosophies of "hit 2 hard" and "hard 2 hit".

[warm needle]

Are these concepts supposed to be realistic or based on actual balance

If they're meant to be realistic then these are mine

[vital helm]

I guess it's all opinion based

[versed gazelle]

Why are they so optimized

[versed gazelle]

This buck is the only cool one here

[vital helm]

Because fierce chompers number 12 and 13 add nothing new to the game.

If you want a non-optimized chomper we already have Allo G2, Acro, Rex, Giga, Mortem, Rexy, and the lower rarities.

[versed gazelle]

This really says a lot about society

No way Giga/Mortem/Rexy aren’t optimized though

[vital helm]

Barely

They have like, one extra move that sets them apart

And they're still functionality the same

[versed gazelle]

its the stats and resistances that set them apart

[vital helm]

They're literally just the stats and resistances of the other chompers but better

[warm needle]

Except for the obligatory bleed and rend resistance every new creature needs

[surreal owl]

wdym by optimised?

[warm needle]

Specialized

The only optimization Ludia would give to buck and doe is the highly specialized niche of killing everything in their path

[surreal owl]

So is it preferable to have Buck and Doe optimised or to implement them as generic fierce chompers?

[warm needle]

It's better to optimize them but I don't think Ludia would agree with that statement

[versed gazelle]

better to make the chompers with a special niche

AKA removing armor or getting some bleed or a counter attack or a buffing swap in

[warm needle]

I think one of the main problems is the large theropods have nothing special about them, they're just big damage and shattering with no other things to make each one more unique

[shrewd sky]

Like

I want allosaurs to be different from tyrannosaurs

[warm needle]

What does this have to do with allosaurs being different from tyrannosaurs? Do you mean in play style or animation

[shrewd sky]

play style

animation probably as well but more so on play style

[warm needle]

What would you want the allosaurs to do? Maybe semi reliant on bleed and little bit faster and less bulky compared to the other large theropods

[shrewd sky]

Basically yes

it would make sense for them to have some bleed

[surreal owl]

This I can agree with. Although I think it’s less to do with the chompers and more to do with the class system. As it currently stands, fierce (and by that I mean pure fierce, not ABC or Impera that has decel, distract, etc.) have access to the smallest repertoire of abilities compared to other classes. It’s shield break, armour pierce, ferocity, bleed, and only recently devour. Though I can see armour decrease switching things up a bit

[warm needle]

Fierce moves need more effects, they only cleanse vuln and break shields while the other two moves do a lot more in terms of what effects they remove and apply, with fierce having no extra negative effects to put on the target

also I think imperato and acevia are just classification issues, they're clealry fierce resilient and cunning fierce

[warm needle]

Even then ferocity if on a fair share of resilients and even cunnings now that the therizinosaurs are getting attack buffs and devour doesn't seem like it will be given to the under powered fierces it was intended to help

[surreal owl]

Pretty much this, but I’m not sure what other ability could be introduced to fierce strike this far into the game without upsetting the balance of the fierce class as a whole. Someone suggested 15% bleed on fierce strike so it gets cleansed by cunning strike but even then it feels outta place

[surreal owl]

Ferocity does seem to be a multi class ability now, epic pelta has it as a resilient and like you mentioned the cunning theris are getting ferocity now too

[warm needle]

If they do ever add armor increase/decrease then removing armor should definitely be added to fierce strike, I know most fierces pierce armor with all their attacks but it could still work for set ups or swaps

Like if you hit a doed with a crit from alberto you could swap in a dracorex for the kill since the armor is gone

[surreal owl]

Yeah that could definitely be cool, almost forgot that rend and lockdown are technically fierce abilities but w the amount of resistances running around they’re obsolete

[ionic pilot]

please stop adding movie dinosaurs before we even get cerato ludia

same

also we could use some unique tall crocs since they literally do not exist

[warm needle]

They've literally never added one of those in the entire history of the game, all the ones we have now were added in 1.1 so neglected creatures like these deserve more attention than Trex 4 and 5

[ionic pilot]

That's what I'm sayin

[warm needle]

There are so many animations that just get completely neglected, a lot of the older pterosaurs, amphibians, the cat animation only has 5 including hybrids and so many others, we don't need more variants of one species than members of an entire group

Also out of the 19 creatures with the raptor animation 9 of them are from the movies with the obvious addition of panthera making the animation a 50/50 split between movie variants and unique species so adding several more velociraptors as has been suggested would mean the animation has more movie variants than it does original animals

[ionic pilot]

It is, honestly, quite lazy

[surreal owl]

Not sure why we can’t have both Cerato and Buck and Doe…. It’s not like having certain creatures precludes others from joining the roster

[warm needle]

We can have both but it's annoying to have 10 velociraptors when some animations haven't had new additions since the early 1.0 period

Why should we be adding to the already crowded groups with things that could easily be cosmetics for everyone's favorite legendary rexy when there are only 2 non hybrids with the cat animation and tall crocs have been out of luck since forever

[ionic pilot]

Bc we don't really need anymore rexes

[surreal owl]

So hypothetically if more creatures were added to the lesser represented animation sets and then Buck and Doe came along, that’d be fine

If that’s the case then yeah I’d agree w that so the updates stay fresh

[warm needle]

As long as they're balanced it's fine if Ludia addresses the lack of representation for other animals first

[final spire]

I had to do this because this context is gold

You didnt ask but you shall receive!

[warm needle]

I think it's really astonishing that we're almost at the point where there are more movie raptors than any other species of raptor, including the hybrids of the 4 species that aren't from the movies

[surreal owl]

I really hate I told you sos, but yall wanted Cerato and now it’s here before Buck and Doe as a unique that’s prob gonna be game breakingly OP. I’ll admit Buck and Doe, if they ever come to the game, will be OP as well but the potential is there for ANY creature to be OP with how the direction the game is going rn

[warm needle]

I hate to say this but I don't doubt buck and doe will outclass tmetro by far if they ever come

To be fair everyone expected cerato to be an epic or something while buck and doe rampaged through legendary but I guess anything's possible with Jamcity

[hushed peak]

Tbf cerato isn’t a reskin like Buck and Doe.
That said, I think it will have the abelisaurid animations.

[unique basin]

The abelisauroid rig isn’t that op . So Ceratosaurus won’t unless it gets busted moves

[warm needle]

That means nothing, raptors were all pretty awful until atrocod came in as 3rd best and best unique

Same for ceratopsids before spinocera, ankylosaurs and anky lux, hadrosaurs with tenontorex/hadros, pterosaurs with dimodact, kyrie, and alankylo, ect

[unique basin]

Still . There is like only two datamined moves that fit Ceratosaurus and his rig and these aren’t that op

[vital helm]

They literally described in the teaser that nonhybrid uniques were added to be able to compete at the top without needing hybrid fusion.

Also why would they make them balanced if making them OP gives people a reason to pay for them.

[warm needle]

And like I said the overall power of the rest of the rig has nothing to do with how strong Ludia will make a creature

[opaque robin]

At this point since they're really cutting corners by recycling stuff for both jw games, expect the next meta to revolve around imported jwtg bosses like omega

[uncut needle]

If buck or doe got added they would now be exclusive uniques

[warm needle]

I don't think they can add jwtg stuff because they have much worse models, if they did they'd look awful compared to everything else

[opaque robin]

Buck would be an apex or whatever higher rarity they decide to add and is also exclusive instead of raidable/whatever is the equivalent of fusing for it

[warm needle]

I don't think apexes like that are coming but you really never know anymore

[opaque robin]

Someone in my alliance was like "whats the point of leveling uniques to 30 if they can get apexes" then suddenly it became "what's the point of apexes if certain uniques are somewhat another rarity above them"

[opaque robin]

Also i know the datamines aren't really to be taken at face value and should never be shared as news until confirmed by jc but the recent ones ive seen are anything but good

[unique basin]

Some also only make sense if you know the jwtg level 40 models

[unique basin]

Ask them . How are they supposed to get apexes without uniqes

[opaque robin]

Raids

The point is youre forced to either level a unique to 30 for its enhancements or save its dna for a potential apex and possibly get handicapped at pvp, not to mention stuff like exclusives and absurd amount of resources (looking at the wolves who says they wont do it again)

[unique basin]

You still need a unique for raids . The only legendary that can do raids is rexy. And rexy doesn’t stand a chance against ref or haast boss

[opaque robin]

Irritator, thylacon, fmimus, and carry strats exist

The point isnt about how you get them. Its their overall value in the long term and how you manage your resources unless you spend 500$ on the shop every day

Simply why should i invest in uniques if apexes are better, and vice versa which is the case ever since enhancements got added

And this is arena. Legends and epics still have their moments in tourneys aslong as the conditions are right

[lost agate]

JP/JW fanboys not taking Ls for less than a second challenge: IMPOSSIBLE

I joke, but looking at some of the comments under this post, this is upsetting, and it's going to end the game sooner.

[warm needle]

Honestly all the fears about them have been occupied by other creatures, pulmono and blytheae are insane and now there's non hybrid uniques

[lost agate]

Fr

But unfortunately, Ludia's gonna Ludia cause Ludia.

JamCity's also responsible for this mess, so they should get the treatment, too.

And yeah, I don't think adding in movie creatures is gonna fix anything. Especially when nearly every new creature Ludia adds are broken beyond belief

And they're probably not gonna stop there either.

I think they might expand on the gen 3 concept more as well as the idea of regular hybrid uniques, too. Since broken creatures make more money.

And no, for the last and final time, individual creatures (characters) are not gens and don't, can't, and won't count as gens.

Either way, they're just a bad idea overall.

[opaque robin]

If im being honest im in a sarcastic nihilistic position with this entire "game". Ik things will just keep sinking so im just trying to have a bit more fun by expecting the worst since it hurts less that way i guess lol. Im probably gonna quit in a month or so ironically after i get the 5 movie velociraptors to 30

If theyre gonna keep getting more absurd each update then i guess i can have fun getting absurd with my predictions lmao. Doesnt mean i like it but it is what it is. I have better stuff to reserve my frustrations to over some dino slot machine

[lost agate]

True.

[warm needle]

Yeah at this point movie dinos being added is just a disappointment because they're designs are copies of something else

[unique basin]

After all we have 4 playable atrociraptors and 6 playable velociraptors. 2 more playable rexes wouldn’t travel things

[warm needle]

Otherwise they're equally busted, all get equally busted hybrids, and all get sold like there's no tomorrow, movie dino or not

[opaque robin]

They cant even get the accuracy right. Too lazy to make actual rigs for the atrocis. Instead of being stocky theyre skinnier and they have broken wrists instead of accurate clapping position hands. Dont get me started on why giganoto cant properly close its jaws

[warm needle]

I doubt they would have given the named atrociraptors from dominion accurate hands

[opaque robin]

Pretending to listen to a suggestion like fan favorites then adding it behind a paywall without caring about the overall negative experience on the game is extra scummy though

[warm needle]

You can guarantee all the big names like buck, doe, and JP3 spino would be unique while any others are likely to be something else entirely

[opaque robin]

If no one pointed it out they just slapped an allosaurus roar on rexy on release. How do you even mess up simple stuff like that

[warm needle]

It wasn't a mess up, it was probably intentional because that's the default roar for the large theropod rig

[opaque robin]

The other 2 rexes have the standard roar if i remember before rexy was added so why confuse it

[warm needle]

They didn't think people would care enough to complain

[opaque robin]

Or so i remember i really havent turned on the volume for the past 3 years when playing

[opaque robin]

Waiting on when theyll make a higher than apex rarity

[warm needle]

That will collapse the game, you think enhancements are pay to win? Just wait until you need 5k unique dna for one level up and geminideus is running around with 20k health

Although the tmetros with 6k damage should still take care of it

[opaque robin]

Tbh the meta wouldve probably shifted at that point and gemdeus is already high elite lmao

Maybe tmetro too

[warm needle]

It's still the best creature there is

Metro is hanging around because it kills deus and heals so much against anything that can't dodge

[opaque robin]

Give it time and theres probably 15+ new creatures that outclass it like everything else ever

[warm needle]

Probably but for now I don't see draco and cerato dethroning gem

[opaque robin]

Yeah
Unless they add something by surprise lol

[lost agate]

Mythical and Deity

[lost agate]

Well, it's right up their alley.

[old elk]

Tbh just make them rexy skins

[lapis mulch]

now you both can shut up in peace

[lost agate]

Nice edit, but sadage

[pallid wagon]

Buck and Doe are much weaker than rexy

They are roughly the same as normal rex

[warm needle]

Isn't rexy the same as a normal rex though?

I don't see a difference, all 3 are old trexes with nothing particularly special about them other than screentime

No Rexy is the protagonist so she's better, duh

Right, I forgot her being the one from the original movie gives her the ability to solo any living thing that opposes her status

[opaque robin]

Rexy is bigger
Doe is smaller and has some minor differences most notably her eyebags are light blue

[warm needle]

I guess the size difference matters but that doesn't exactly make them "much weaker than rexy"

[surreal owl]

Yeah and I’d be fine with them as ordinary creatures that have no effect on the meta, like Draco…

[warm needle]

At this point I would still prefer them as skins but now most of the reasons not to want them in other than diversity are gone, charcharodontosaurs and daspletosaurus are just as likely to be meta ruining uniques as buck and doe

[surreal owl]

So yeah I guess theoretically, they could be much weaker than Rexy. Power levels in game never correlate to real-life or canon anyways

[surreal owl]

I get ur point on diversity but JC had every reason to make Cerato a counterattacker rig and they didn’t, prob because it’s harder to animate. Draco while being a different species could pass as DiloG3…

[warm needle]

Cerato really should have been medium theropod, I think they haven't gotten a new addition since dio only for the best candidate to end up as a shrunken rex rig

[lost agate]

Fr

But Ludia's dumb, so, not surprised

[surreal owl]

Non hybrid uniques still should’ve never been a thing, legendary at most for nonhybrids

[warm needle]

They're an awful idea really

You already had apexes bringing non hybrids into the higher meta, there has to be some point to making hybrids

[surreal owl]

It basically means that apex hybrids made of two nonhybrid creatures are theoretically possible which is just another can of worms

[warm needle]

Having to make a dracov apex sounds absolutely terrible

[surreal owl]

Exclusive Cerato sounds even worse

[warm needle]

I think they'd release it if it ever got a hybrid like they did with rexy, of course I also wouldn't doubt a hybrid being made of a creature you can't even sanctuary grind

[surreal owl]

Yeah once the market incs make enough, there’s no point not to make it wild

In the future I think enhancements will become more accessible too… just like how boosts used to be one tower a week and now there are three

[warm needle]

Enhancements are still way more expensive, maybe adding small amounts to event drops would be good

[surreal owl]

The amount for tourney is laughable. 50 of each kind per day in supply drops would be fine even

Esp since it’s so expensive for T3-5

[warm needle]

How much are they giving for it?

[opaque robin]

I honestly cant stop thinking that cerato was really going to be some other carnivore given the size. Someone told me rexy being rexy was a last minute change and was simply going to be t rex gen 3

[warm needle]

I think it was just a naming thing, would always have had the rexy model

[lost agate]

"Ah yes, cause a Individuals are new dinos so they should counted as gens"

Pretty stupid mindset if you ask me

[opaque robin]

Tbf we never should have character dinos considering how you could easily double the base non hybrid roster with hybrids since character dinos will be clone models no matter what

[lost agate]

Indeed. They should be skins, but fans are gonna complain

You can't win either way

[opaque robin]

If they really werent lazy, they shouldve made a new rig for the atrocis and pyro g2 with a more hunched build and the accurate hands

I like raptors and seeing them being near veloci clones still feels weird

[lost agate]

As well as giving rexy, giga, and theri accurate hands as well

[opaque robin]

And making poor giga close its jaw

[opaque robin]

Would be nice if they werent individualy locked behind 20$ paywalls and arent even accurate to on screen

[lost agate]

Ikr?

[opaque robin]

It looks nice, but why does spinocera's skin look more accurate coloration wise to jp3 spino than the actual rare spino?

[lost agate]

Idek

[opaque robin]

Also spinos and indoms sharing animations didnt age well

[lost agate]

Yeah

Indom looks weird with the spino animation

[opaque robin]

So does dreadnoughtus using apato rig when its clearly supppsed to be an inbetween stance of apato and brachio

Theri looks mostly right until you notice its feathers look like theyre thinning

[lost agate]

Yeah

The many Ls of Ludia

[opaque robin]

Bumpy and beta look actually right for the most part. Even got the asymmetrical horn and chipped claw respectively. But why did they had to do some "creative" liberties on their colorations?

[lost agate]

No clue. Doesn't change much tho

[opaque robin]

Bumpy is noticably brighter for some reason

Raptor squad might be worst in terms of movie accuracy and it really triggers me lol

[surreal owl]

[lost agate]

Since the raptor squad are using the same common velo rig and animation, yeah.

[opaque robin]

The rig and animations are right. Its the minor details and the colors that are off

[lost agate]

True

[opaque robin]

The fact you only get gold when among top 500

[warm needle]

Why do they give a huge amount of silver compared to the others? Makes no sense at all

Also funny how being in first place gets you 1/9 of a tier 1 creature

[opaque robin]

Understanding ludia and jc's logic is akin to mental isolation at this point

[warm needle]

I think that's the fault of dominion actually being worse at feathering than jwa so theri looks naked compared to erlik

[lost agate]

Lmao

JWD keeps on taking Ls!

[opaque robin]

I think its a bit unfair to compare jwa's models to jwe2's, but their therizino model looks the right amount of fluff and muscle compared to theri here

[warm needle]

Although I'm not sure what amount of feathering theri would actually have had, it was pretty large and I think therizinosaurs didn't have the same derived feathers as dromaeosaurs and others

[opaque robin]

Even compared to other therizinosaurs ig theriz just looks malnourished

Even edom looks chunkier without any feathering

[pallid wagon]

No

[warm needle]

How is she not?

[pallid wagon]

Rexy is bigger

[warm needle]

So she's about the biggest a realistic trex could get

[pallid wagon]

There is no sense of adding buck and doe

They are roughly the same as rex

[warm needle]

That chart, despite being extremely blurry, seems to show rexy is only 1 or 2 feet longer than them

[warm needle]

Definitely agree with that

[pallid wagon]

There are a lot of other creatures to add for example Gigantopithecus

[warm needle]

I don't know if they'll ever do primates though

[pallid wagon]

There are no monkeys in this game

😢

[warm needle]

There's definitely more groups that need attention

[opaque robin]

Wrong. Our dead homie needs respect. Add him as a rarity above apex to utterly destroy anything spino related

||this is a joke to trigger a rex and spino fanboy war which is also a joke||

[loud forge]

And don’t make it cost $100,000,000,000

[pallid wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-shia-la-beouf-flame-gif-4445204

[opaque robin]

Y'know it just occured to me. Tyrannomet's green coloration is nearly the same as the jp3 rex. Then even if a spino wasn't the donor, it has a sail...

What is this blasphemy

[uncut needle]

🗿

[warm needle]

Isn't that just a green rexy?

[simple trench]

yep

[warm needle]

What ludia would do

Cerato is literally a modified Rexy model

[uncut needle]

And Dracov is just a unsaturated ref

[warm needle]

It should have been medium theropod really

[opaque robin]

Albertospinos is just spinotahsuchus with a face surgery gone wrong

Kyrie is just an edgier pteraquetzal

[surreal owl]

Buck and Doe, but Ludia accurate...

[warm needle]

No way they wouldn't be unique

[surreal owl]

Rexy is only legendary, it wouldn’t make sense that Buck and Doe are higher rarity than her

[uncut needle]

you know what else doesnt make sense

cerato being a unique with its 10 seconds of screen time

they could even be apexes

[surreal owl]

Ironically nonhybrid apexes are less problematic than nonhybrid uniques, they can be raided and almost all of them except Kyrie are obsolete in the meta

[warm needle]

That's an issue of time for her, rexy isn't unique for the same reason blue isn't legendary

[pallid wagon]

What the.... is that?

That's dumb

Rexy was added because he was bigger than normal rex

There's no point of adding them bc they are roughly the same(±20cm)

[pallid wagon]

Maybe buck is a bit balanced but look at Doe

It has dmg increasing opponent swap and 2,5x attack

[warm needle]

She was added for money lol

[opaque robin]

At this point i'm just gonna wait on how long before they add all the other rexes

[warm needle]

What does size have to do with anything?

That's like the least plausible reason to add rexy

[opaque robin]

They didnt even bother change her size from the allos and carcha