[Soda: Twinkling Bunny] New Unit Megathread

[opal lantern]

Quite average. Not meta.

Ever since release.

PvP wise.

She hasn't really gone up or down.

Rosanna did skyrocket into meta after her tech was discovered.

The tech was proposed by me like when she was released but everyone shut it down except Emi.

[misty estuary]

@sweet panther is this true, is Rosanna good now

[opal lantern]

Now CN reintroduced it.

[misty estuary]

as for Nero, p sure your description counts as the kitchen burning down

[opal lantern]

That's not innovative.

That's well tuned.

2B is innovative.

Damage scales based on Max HP is unique.

[misty estuary]

I don't agree

[opal lantern]

Well it is subjective but I heavily disagree with the tier list for Nero's and Rosanna's placement. While I do believe Rosanna's perfect design wasnt intentional by SU, it was still too early for her age.

[misty estuary]

Like to me, "Innovative" doesn't mean "Oh it just does something new no one has seen before"

[opal lantern]

Quiry was intentionally made garbage too.

The heal copium is idk

She is intentionally made garbage but has some uses

[opal lantern]

To me innovative means discovering something no one expects

[misty estuary]

"Innovative" means that they came up with a creative combination of skills that allow the character to be effective in new scenarios that were previously necessary and more that were thus unheard of, with bonus points for the ability to micro

[opal lantern]

Innovative by performance not by design then.

[misty estuary]

Design and performance go hand in hand

[opal lantern]

Crown has terrible skill design

Not the worst but far from good

[misty estuary]

Hard disagree

[opal lantern]

Bland

Subjective

I have disliked Crown since release

Even now

[cold sluice]

[misty estuary]

I think the durability/taunt package she offers is very enjoyable

and much less boring than just "I heal up constantly while bursting" which it easily could have been, along with an option to run a healer but not a requirement

they didn't choose a boring route with her durability package, and they gave her a controllable taunt that isn't permanent which is bonus points in my book

[opal lantern]

Yes by performance not creative design

Smh

[misty estuary]

I said like 3 times

already

what my definition of innovative is

[opal lantern]

Thats what I said

[opal lantern]

Your description is literally performance biased, like how A works or B works in a team or helps the team or how the taunt is controllable is a big bonus.

And I am more creativity/design biased.

These don't go hand in hand.

These are separate things.

[misty estuary]

#1244976866516008990 message
#1244976866516008990 message

^

No

They go hand in hand

[opal lantern]

No they dont

[misty estuary]

because you can make the most creative kit in the world

but if the values are 1

then it doesn't do crap

It's just garbage

[opal lantern]

Thats why they dont go hand in hand

[misty estuary]

That's why they DO go hand in hand

[opal lantern]

Again

[stoic tartan]

[opal lantern]

You are misunderstanding

[stoic tartan]

Im scared

[opal lantern]

You are evaluating the kit synergy but not the creativity/artistic design overall.

You are not getting it.

[misty estuary]

From my perspective, you're not taking in the spirit of what I'm trying to communicate, you're just arguing over what you want my intentions to mean

[opal lantern]

Most of your assessment is performance based.

Creativity ≠ kit synergy

[misty estuary]

You are not getting it

[opal lantern]

No we just have different viewpoints

But thats fine

I am aware you are a more logical person than I am

[misty estuary]

You are purposely trying to apply your definition of the words "artistic design"/"creativity" to a definition of "Innovative" that I already established when I made the list

[opal lantern]

Thats why I said we have different viewpoints

But then again I did say based on your definition

Nero and Rosanna are misplaced

[stoic tartan]

So whats everyones thoughts on b soda

[opal lantern]

Innovative is an overused word with multiple meanings that serve no purpose tbh

So is creative

[misty estuary]

You can have a different opinion, that's fine, but what I have a problem with is when you say that I don't get it and I'm "not evaluating creativity/artistic design", that's trying to invalidate my definitions of what I think those terms mean

Instead of doing that you could just debate with me on how much we agree on whether 2B fits those terms or not

[next plank]

Okay, I just got here to ask:

• As of today, is she worth pulling for?

[misty estuary]

and see whether or not we have common ground there

[north moon]

Based on the pinned comment, yes lol.

[cold sluice]

[next plank]

[next plank]

I'd skip

she requires sg team

which i don't have

[next plank]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1016228345823907880.gif?size=48&quality=lossless&name=kekwwa

[north moon]

It's funny because I JUST skill resetted the shotgun team lol

I still have the books, I am not a heretic

I am just waiting for proof

[next plank]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1132376868948033566.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=KEKpat

yu have other teams

[opal lantern]

Cus innovative can mean from:

• Whether the item introduces a finely thought out solution or addition that integrates well into the current ecosystem.
• Whether the item introduces an unexpected idea.

You evaluate based on (1). I evaluate based on (2).

[next plank]

still no doro?

[next plank]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/927593143371694131.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=Thumbsup

[opal lantern]

It can mean either in the real world.

[next plank]

yup

[opal lantern]

An innovative product can be a random ass product that no one expects or a product that solves some unsolved problem.

[next plank]

https://media.discordapp.net/stickers/1033484495447412797.png?size=160&name=True

[opal lantern]

And thats why I said we have different viewpoints.

I wouldnt complain about 2B placement based on your definition.

But in my definition, 2B is higher than Crown, while Crown is far down.

[next plank]

for me, each character is shit as hell
that's why i use Nihilister because it doesn't matter in the end

[misty estuary]

Yes, I responded to you already (#1244976866516008990 message) that both are important, but that the two go hand in hand because if you judge based on the 2nd point Viper is technically "innovative" despite clearly being a terrible unit; this is not a suitable definition. Using the world of painting as a metaphor, I consider the "result" to be metaphorically "painting technique" while what you designate as "creativity" to be "subject matter/composition".

[next plank]

I can't believe you two argue about what "innovative" means

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1199025538023563375.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=face_palm

[opal lantern]

Viper is in no way innovative.

[misty estuary]

The criteria for how I judge a unit is that ultimately, my highest tier which is simply called innovative has the spirit of making a significant impact on the meta, gameplay, and experience of the character.

[opal lantern]

Which means result & performance.

While I judge by the process.

[fresh fulcrum]

u r a true giga chad

[misty estuary]

Viper is "innovative" because she has "mechanics and goals that one had seen to that point". She was the first unit to activate something based on target with the vague intention of providing a "big buff", an unseen before target manipulation buff, and the ability to manually select the target of her burst effect- the point is that by the standards you're giving, this is "innovative", but the actual implementation of these ideas was trash so the character ends up as garbage.

[opal lantern]

Innovative is unexpected not unseen.

One more thing.

[misty estuary]

Viper cancelling Chatterbox missiles is similarly "unexpected"

[opal lantern]

That is surely a bug that became a feature.

[next plank]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/907325452929101927.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=chadgamer

[opal lantern]

Your evaluation for innovation is heavily impacted by result & performance and integration. My evaluation for innovation are two separate factors combined between design creativity and their suitability/appropriateness/capability in the ecosystem.

[misty estuary]

Having the ability to remove yourself as a target is similarly "unexpected"- I definitely don't believe anyone at the time would have expected that

[opal lantern]

In which case, Crown scores high in suitability in my definition.

But it scores low on design creativity.

Which is why I don't consider her innovative

And it is also why I dont say design and suitability go hand in hand.

Because it is just a different evaluation method.

[misty estuary]

And I said that I have the same definition

The very point I'm making here is that you're not agreeing with my definition of creativity

What I think is consider creative is different from what you think is creative, it's like arguing between the value of practical and abstract art

[opal lantern]

Thats what I said

We have different viewpoints

[next plank]

https://tenor.com/view/yapping-yapping-level-today-catastrophic-yapanese-gif-13513208407930173397

[opal lantern]

Not that ure wrong

Except for Nero & Rosanna in my opinion based on your definition

[misty estuary]

I already said idk about rosanna

as for Nero I think per my definition, I think your description made it sound like she belongs there

[opal lantern]

Nero is pvp unit

You do more pve so are you sure ure not biased?

[misty estuary]

PvP unit that doesn't do a job well or correctly

[opal lantern]

What

Bro

Nero is

[misty estuary]

That's what you described to me

[opal lantern]

So good in pvp

[rose mango]

Yeah, Rosanna we just didn't cook hard enough lol
Deluded by the hate she got in PvE lol

They actually cooked so hard with rosanna

[misty estuary]

Alright what's the tech

[rose mango]

Rosanna is actually tier 1, up there with SAnis, I would disagree with crown tho but the rest is fine ig

[rose mango]

Sacrifice

I can share videos, I mean

It's just so insane

[misty estuary]

I mean like obviously it's going to be that

I'm asking more specifically than that ofc

[opal lantern]

Nero is one of the best non-meta PvP units right now because she has indeed worked since release as a staller with Rapunzel. She can be used to counter certain meta teams. Her usage was higher back then due to now having more AoEs.

[rose mango]

https://youtu.be/mQ20A9ZxPOM?si=7q8E3fZrOXQLPmtH

Just take a look at how she uses rosanna

She's the best JP PvPer we know

[opal lantern]

Fuck you Snake

[wispy sierra]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1038708366630977566/1047768821747941376/20221201_022935.gif

[gleaming creek]

please send me a C7 rapunzel to make me believe you

[opal lantern]

I already proposed Sacririce strat since Emi was active.

[rose mango]

It's back to back unbeatable teams

[opal lantern]

Yall just too dumb

Idc

[rose mango]

Yeah yeah sure..

[opal lantern]

Its always CN and JP that innovate

[rose mango]

Agreed tbh

[opal lantern]

The EN team is so slow like a rock

Unchanging

Unswerving

Uninnovative

Uncreative

[misty estuary]

I have no idea what I'm supposed to take away from this

[opal lantern]

If Emily was here

PvP would have been a better place

Bro is one of the most creative theorycrafters with random ideas

Emily's exit made PvP no more development

[misty estuary]

I am heavily PvE biased yes

[rose mango]

Lemme tldr it for you

Rosanna kit assumed by en: jackal link remover

Rosanna kit now after tons of theorycrafting:

• Sacrifice to make faster teams
• nukes highest atk
• fastest nuke that can actually kill
• Emilia being meta makes Rosanna more meta

Yeah, we checked
It's a legit strat

[opal lantern]

I can send you my dm with emily talking about sacrifice

[rose mango]

Idc about DM, it's proof of concept or nothing

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's the best who is known publicly

[rose mango]

Lol

[rose mango]

I don't really know how to properly explain it rn lmfao cuz I'm a bit sleepy rn but

Essentially Rosanna is a nuker + buff cleanser + insane burst gen

All of which are kindof vital to how pvp works

[rose mango]

Like, nukes and burst gen are basically what PvP revolves around

And she can do that very very nicely

[opal lantern]

Emily's P2 sac is a legit strat but can only be doable if the other units can make up the CP difference to avoid penalty.

[rose mango]

The way to achieve the burst gen and effective nuking ability is where the innovation comes in

[opal lantern]

Unfortunately, since Emi left, we are not gonna see that.

[misty estuary]

Okay so let me rephrase this to make sure I understand what this means:

• Sacrifice 1 unit to remove a target for the enemy to burst gen with and proc Rosanna's ATK up.
• After winning the burst gen war, activate Rosanna's burst to nuke 2 enemies fast and hard, at least one of which will probably be the enemy's DPS carry, before they can apply any counterplay like invuln from Noah/Blanc or extra durability such as healing from Noise.
• Due to concealment and relatively high multipliers, the nuke is lethal and cannot be withstood by ordinary effects like Jackal (which might also be dispelled?).
• Specifically against Emilia, Emilia is too slow when charging to have counterplay against Rosanna (?)

[rose mango]

The tldr of the innovation is sacrifice

[opal lantern]

P2 sac strat by Emi.

Is by leaving a weak unit to reduce enemy RL burst gen.

But it needs high CP to compensate.

Which is only doable by whales.

[rose mango]

Yeah that's exactly right

• Jackal's link is dispelled
• cannot be blocked by noah
• Emilia isn't slow, the problem with her is that Emilia is water, do elemental diff deletes her even without atk up. You just need to make a fast team

[opal lantern]

In practice, on equal grounds, you have 100% CP on each.

Swapping one unit for P2 sac strat can cost less than 14% CP.

Or if you already start at an advantage,

[rose mango]

Gear manipulation maybe you can do it

[opal lantern]

Assuming 120:100 CP ratio

Doing P2 sac strat is possible.

[misty estuary]

e.dmg on rosanna, yeah that's p funny

[opal lantern]

Emi is returning with CA anyways.

He told me.

[rose mango]

Electric is so stacked

That anything water is basically asking to be murdered

[misty estuary]

okay so next question tho

[rose mango]

For pvp

[misty estuary]

is this strategy viable on even CP

[opal lantern]

Yes.

[misty estuary]

and what do you think about the strategy at the time of release

was it viable then too

[rose mango]

Yeah, this is one even CP, the one showed on Mishiro San's video

[misty estuary]

if you had to guess

[rose mango]

Yep, indeed it was

All the units required were still there

We just didn't have the balls nor the brains

[misty estuary]

k, then I'm bumping her up

[misty estuary]

now tell me about nero

[opal lantern]

Not as good as it is right now because units are squishier back then. Chances of Rosanna killing herself increases greatly.

[rose mango]

The team is

Scarlet flex xAnne Rosanna centi

[opal lantern]

Keripo did say that.

His tier list is made for high syncs.

So no, Rosanna isnt this good on release.

For most people

Except whales

Technically the chars were all there already

But Rosanna was a failure at that time to solve the problem because it was too early.

Not that she is poorly designed.

Just too early for her timeline.

[misty estuary]

I mean sync diff between lower syncs is bigger back then, skill mats are more scarce, and most investments are pve focused

plus T9M gear scarcity

etc.

[opal lantern]

And now we have Soda

A PvE and PvP unit

[rose mango]

Nero is not terrible
She's alright

Better than whatever they tried with viper at least lol

I'd put Nero more in line with undertuned

She has the spirit, she works absolutely fine, but she just can't reach the meta

She does everything you'd want her to, but she needs to do more

• taunt works fine
• damage reduction works fine
• can manage to get max stacks in a 3rl team of Rapunzel+biscuit, not all that bad in retrospect

It's just that you want her to do more..

[misty estuary]

regardless since Rosanna didn't get buffs but just ended up aging like fine wine I'll consider that "secretly genius"

so she gets to be at the top

[rose mango]

She got better over time with the release of more healers and damage reduction pairs such as Moran

But since we got better units as well, she's still the same tier as before

Comparitively

[opal lantern]

Soda:

• Clip SG
• Wipe
• Crit DMG on initial.
• Longer full burst in PvP.
• Loses some damage against Rosanna.

[misty estuary]

She's be in the same tier as Makima then which seems pretty fair?

[rose mango]

Yeah I guess
She fits pretty well there
Makima when released was kinda broken in PvP tho so, idk how to feel about that

This is a rabbit hole at this point

Cuz we had no defence against sg or alice other than makima

[misty estuary]

then relative to where the devs wanted her, do you think makima should be raised to the confused tier?

[rose mango]

And I'm pretty sure biscuit was after makima

[rose mango]

Yes

[misty estuary]

k

actually

I kinda wanna raise Emilia

to well balanced

[rose mango]

It's funny how it works, cuz she was actually pretty goated and then dropped dead within 6 months

Fastest meta drop imo is makima

[foggy anchor]

In 7 mins?

[misty estuary]

Okay where do I move quiry

[rose mango]

Probably down a tier

As some wise men say

She trash

[misty estuary]

k

[rose mango]

No innovation no nothing

She's just an RL that heals

[misty estuary]

next, x.anne/jackal

[rose mango]

She's just
Bad

[rose mango]

To this day I feel like jackal S1 bugged but keripo confirmed from Devs it isn't

Like, she's not innovative

But she's definitely like, overtuned

She single handedly dictates what weapon types are allowed

[misty estuary]

I left her in confused tier because I'm pretty sure they had no idea

what they were doing with her

[rose mango]

I agree
But she was fucking broken bro

Still is

Without jackal you probably can't PvP

[misty estuary]

being clip RL, damage up on hit, and tethering makes it look like she was designed to be OP in PvP, but then you read her burst and realizes it doesn't even do anything with the vast majority of skills and start the question why she was designed this way

[rose mango]

I didn't have jackal for 1 year into the game

[misty estuary]

so I'm p sure she belongs in confused tier

[rose mango]

Sure, I mean
I still don't know why she works like that

She just does

[misty estuary]

that's the prime example of confused tier

you don't know what the devs were thinking

they probably didn't either

therefore, confused tier

where jackal landed was random relative to their expectations

alright X.Anne

last one p sure

well, that and bay

[foggy anchor]

Where is BAlice's kit? It's been 12 hours

[rose mango]

Bay: undertuned
Biscuit: could be considered overtuned
xAnne is fine there

SMary? I mean? Ok I guess
Id say she's pretty well balanced overall

Like, how else do you make a pure healer

[misty estuary]

also reminder that there's the "can't do their own job" tier right below undertuned

[foggy anchor]

XAnne is undertuned, 60s cd is killing her

[rose mango]

Yeah, you don't need that 60s in pvp

She's a PvP unit

[foggy anchor]

Make it at least 40s without revival

[misty estuary]

Biscuit is not overtuned tier imo

they had no idea what they were cooking there

def confused tier bc of that imo

[rose mango]

Bay does her job perfectly fine
She blocks AoE and tanks damage for the team, dies before everyone else as well

[misty estuary]

k

[rose mango]

She just... Needs to do more
Like please, do more

[misty estuary]

the reason I put biscuit in confused tier is bc I'm p sure

the devs had absolutely no idea

what the fuck they were doing

with this character

[rose mango]

She came right after makima, who was also a blocker

Biscuit fixed PvP
SAnis ruined everything

And then came A2 and Emilia and whatever idek now

[sweet panther]

I think all the units pre half ani devs had no idea wtf they were doing

[misty estuary]

like never in their wildest dreams did they imagine that biscuit would be an infinite gamer chair spam healer/cover repairer in a team full of supports as well as a PvP fixer

Like when they made Biscuit I'm p sure their idea was just to put a little bit of everything into her kit

and it somehow stubbled into working out

that's why I feel like she's confused tier

[rose mango]

Worked out a bit too well

Tbh her burst was useless until SAnis came into existence

So there's that as well

So you're right

[misty estuary]

yeah that's my point

her S1 values and burst effect don't like up

with what she was used for

and then where she ended up was a lot different

from what they were expecting, if they were expecting anything that all

And bc they pulled that whole m-word ban fiasco you know her interactions with s anis was def not well thought out beforehand

And cover rebuild was a mechanic that was slapped on with no real thought just because it sounded good

[rose mango]

Just a lil bit of everything

[misty estuary]

alright here you go

revised list

rosanna secret genius tier main change

otherwise some kinda whatever movements

[rose mango]

Damn that last tier is especially bad

[stoic tartan]

rei cute tho

[torn thunder]

Inb4 Eve is Galaxy Brain

[misty estuary]

alright here's the real reason why I wanted to make this list

I removed all the units before summer 2/nier collab

look at where all the units place

[rose mango]

xD

[torn thunder]

pascal is nier, and anchor is summer 2

[misty estuary]

okay fair but those 2 don't really matter

since they're in intentionally garbage tier

I could delete that tier to begin with

[rose mango]

Somewhere down the line shiftup learned what the meta buffs were in their game

[torn thunder]

Inb4 we get damage exponents

[rose mango]

Cuz if you see here
Only blanc noir and Dorothy are actual buffers

The rest are just phonies

No good DPS either

Other than mod

First 8 months were just bad

[misty estuary]

yeah exactly

helm, the first unit released, was def an accident

stumbled her way into being decently balanced over time

many of the units that are rated higher here are just because of PvP!!!!!

[rose mango]

I am still like, 100% sure they don't know anything about pvp

[torn thunder]

Rosanna?

[rose mango]

Like the bugs present rn in PvP are so insane

That we've taken them as normal now

[misty estuary]

I mean tbh even Rosanna's placement here

is like

somewhat cope in the sense that

we're just giving them the benefit of the doubt that their kit worked out

it's like just believable enough but tbh I'm not confident

[torn thunder]

is crown innovative due to all the attack damage buffs and consistent shield uptime?

the extra property on her MG goes mostly unnoticed

[misty estuary]

no she's innovative by how she has limited but controllable team and personal durability/taunt and offers a buff suite with requirements that allow for diverse team composition

as opposed to restrictive or obvious team composition

[rose mango]

If you really think about itz she's innovative

If you just look at the surface, she's confused but she's got the spirit

Rosanna is.. unique

[misty estuary]

I think the description is simple

[rose mango]

It's definitely not smart design

It's not overtuned

[misty estuary]

Rosanna is the biggest example of accidental genius

[rose mango]

It's either
Confused but got the spirit
Or
Innovative

[torn thunder]

if you included launch nikkes, where would Liter go?

[rose mango]

Need to make an accident tier

[misty estuary]

overtuned

[fierce lake]

today is the dawn of the final day folks
we'll see if the sg team is still cope

[misty estuary]

alright where would accident tier go

maybe right above confused

and below overtuned

[rose mango]

Yeah

[torn thunder]

meme Idea: auto snipers suck at burst gen
solution: make a sr that shoots 5 shots per charge shot

[rose mango]

Add Rosanna there

And biscuit

[misty estuary]

too true

[rose mango]

Rosanna biscuit jackal helm

[foggy anchor]

Still no Alice's kit

If they didn't released it. I'll make one

[misty estuary]

new thingy

[rose mango]

xD
This is sad

[misty estuary]

yeah I made this to reflect on how

unit releases were turbo shit

leading up to summer 2

[rose mango]

Ever since SAnis banner we have had very good units

Like, every other banner either was or turned out to be meta at some point or some game mode

Hell, even kilo did

Only trony was absolutely trash

[copper cairn]

Will Tove be enough for Bunny Soda to keep all her stacks?

[rose mango]

Yes

[copper cairn]

[old sentinel]

ShiftUp took Isabel, then cooked the opposite direction of her kit, and that became Bunny Soda's kit

[misty estuary]

lowkey kinda true ngl

[rose mango]

We still in like the bunny era for PvP

[copper cairn]

oh wait will BunnySoda be potentially usable in pvp?

[misty estuary]

tbh PC Era could be reworded to: "Classic Era"

Classic Era: The first meta that isn't defined by bugs or platform limitations

[rose mango]

This is a great summary

[old sentinel]

Reroll Era
Emulator Era
PC Era
Macro Era
Ban Era
Bunnies Era

In the end, rabbits reign!

[fierce lake]

wait, what does DKW have anything to do with sanis?

[misty estuary]

"indirectly unlocks"

[rose mango]

Liter gives ammo buffs

Volume gives no buffs

DWife gives buffs without ammo buffs

Hence usable with SAnis

[fierce lake]

yeah I see

[rose mango]

[misty estuary]

uh not exactly

better phrasing is this way:

• Before DKW: Liter/Vol locked to Bunnies/JKs, options for fielding S.Anis become limited to Dorothy or a shit team.
• After DKW: Volume is freed, opening up new B2 and S.Anis options

[rose mango]

I see

[misty estuary]

basically if you just conceptually think about team comps, Volume being free opens a lot of comps that were viable pre-JKs back into viability

aka, JKs released -> comp viability plummeted

DKW released -> comp viability partially restored

[rose mango]

Still no novel in fallout, damn

[misty estuary]

Novel might be falling out soon

I wrote this all up before the current kit releases

If Novel ever falls out it'd be in the current era

which is hard to say for certain rn

bc a fallout would suppose near complete usuability compared to other options

[fierce lake]

at least novel doesn't need OLs so you can recoup investment from resets

[torn thunder]

so is the prediction for Bsoda/ Balice like in Fads section, depending on what Balice brings?

[misty wind]

What is that essay on her kit man 💀

https://tenor.com/view/funny-cant-see-cant-read-meme-ken-jeong-gif-16673476

By the looks of it she's not looking good

Is that the consensus?

[torn thunder]

hey it's nothing compared the the Gala Alex kit description that Dragaila LOST had to do
and there are even parts that aren't explained such as the custom standard attack chain she had

[misty wind]

Who omegalul

[misty estuary]

@rose mango rough launch units only list

[torn thunder]

https://dragalialost.wiki/w/Gala_Alex

[warped kite]

my take is
must pull if you have Tove invested/have lots of mats
wishlist otherwise

I’m most likely getting her through wishlist before I have enough mats for that team

[rose mango]

Snowwhite was a nuke tho, was she an accident? Idk

Like, clearly they wanted her to hit a big ass nuke

[misty estuary]

def an accident, I was thinking long and hard about it

and I came to the conclusion

that based on how SW works

they had no fucking clue how the fuck her skills and her burst were supposed to synergize

it's just so jank

[torn thunder]

wasn't there the bug where SW could charge another shot after her first one?

[rose mango]

Harran at release was good
Id say she was in the spirit tier

[misty estuary]

nah

Harran at release was good

because of charge bug

def can't give props for that

that's a moment

if I've ever seen one

like a, "I tested the game guys, Harran is good!"

kind of moment

[old sentinel]

The bugs

[misty estuary]

like they definitely did not envision the way SW would play if you contextually analyze her kit imo

[torn thunder]

@misty estuary so is Bsoda the breakout and BAlice a fad?

[old sentinel]

When my Modernia took Nihilister breath to the face because she was trapped in reloading

[torn thunder]

@misty estuary also you forgot xmica as a fad

[misty estuary]

like her burst takes 5s to charge, her S1 lasts 5s, the best buff in the game is 5s long, there's only 3 CDR units, and her crit buff only activates if she's in full burst when she's charging... there's no way that the devs sat there and were like, "Yeah I think the players are gonna pair SW with Miranda and time her burst to Yulha's S2 activation"

[misty estuary]

xmica wasn't meta enough to be a fad

[misty estuary]

weird question to ask considering idk what B.Alice's kit is

[torn thunder]

anyway should 2B be a fallout by now?

since Trony exists?

[misty estuary]

trony isn't even better than 2B

if anything she's worse

as for whether she's fallen out, idk yet

roughly same situation as novel

[torn thunder]

huh
I'm scared Eve will start a new era where some Abnormal units become permanent

forcing whales to spend for Abnormal recycling mats

[misty estuary]

recyling mats aren't a big deal

[torn thunder]

that, and the Inteception EX and champions arena arriving

[misty estuary]

you need to diff someone by over 100 consoles for it to mean anything significant

[torn thunder]

you mean 5000 mats
ie 50 mats per level

[misty estuary]

no

well

yes

but I mean 100 levels

of the console

tl;dr that's a lot

and very hard to get

[torn thunder]

[rose mango]

All of this just probably shows that

Shiftup definitely didn't know their game then

And it was around half anniv where they finally understood it

Like, for sure at one point they must've realised that 5% atk down isn't cutting it

[misty estuary]

I mean I think Dorothy being in confused tier shows it def took some time after half anni

[sweet panther]

they sent spies to theroy craft channels and went "ah thats how its screwed"

[misty estuary]

like my personal opinion

[rose mango]

Dorothy shows that they know cdr is good
And that being a 40s is not good

[misty estuary]

is that they overestimated how good part damage up was as a buff

[sweet panther]

honestly i think part damage up was amazing

[misty estuary]

and overestimated how good the brand damage would be

[torn thunder]

and it took way longer for collabs to be halfway decent

[sweet panther]

at the time our union raid parts werent paper and SR raid parts were basically unbreakable

mw/blacksmith

then it died in a hole when they updated UR + sr now parts always break

[torn thunder]

Next up: Stellar Blade collab is either innovative or blatantly overtuned

[sweet panther]

so they basically patched doro's dmg buff out of existance

[misty estuary]

I mean as I said, I think they were confused by how the effectiveness of part damage up should play out, and on top of this

they hard bound her to normal priv

[torn thunder]

and kicked admi out

[misty estuary]

not really kicked admi out at that point

[sweet panther]

admi died with ammo overloads tbh

[misty estuary]

and they probably didn't imagine the type of micro you'd have to do to finish the fight with an extra burst on dorothy

the delay on burst is also clearly too long, and the way it snaps to bosses is awk af

and I think they overestimated how much damage dorothy herself would be contributing

overall I rate it confused

so yeah, not convinced they knew what they were doing with dorothy

[sweet panther]

it really makes me wonder if they knew what they were doing with MW and distributed dmg on those adds tbh

cuz i surely didnt know until 2b/xlud and we could test more in pvp

[torn thunder]

will you rate the 4 favorite item nikkes?

I think Frima will be clueless

[misty estuary]

they aren't out yet, so can't comment

need actual numbers

sometimes design is good but numbers are low

and the end up undertuned

sometimes deigns is good/okay but numbers are REALLY low

and they end up in can't do job tier

sometimes I have a stroke and misspell everything

[sweet panther]

Have we had anything where it sucked but the numbers were abnormaly high yet

[misty estuary]

and blanc was def overtuned as shit for when she was released

[sweet panther]

Alice?

[misty estuary]

Alice is happy little accident tier

[torn thunder]

wait where's neve? Happy little accident?

[sweet panther]

Alice I think is an abnormally high # unit

[misty estuary]

yulha ofc

[sweet panther]

True

That s1

[misty estuary]

yulha kit is complete dogwater design but randomly it has 90% ATK for 5s

and we happen to have exactly 1 unit that can take advantage of that

[sweet panther]

That just happened to line up with sw crit buff hit

[misty estuary]

most units that have bad design but abnormally high numbers end up bad anyway

like rupee, exia

[fierce lake]

I don't even know if they intend yulha to work with sw
since they are both launch units

[misty estuary]

that's the point

they def didn't

reason is because they had no understanding of burst cycles, burst gen, and gamer chair spam

[torn thunder]

poli maybe

but def not yulha

[misty estuary]

like coming up with SW/Yulha requires you to first conceptualize how fast reburst should occur, and based on their initial designs and the fact that this game began as mobile only, you can tell their imagination was not broad enough

to think of the Miranda-Dolla-SW-Yulha synergy

[gleaming creek]

no no no

they were simply not thinking about ass with the SW/YH combo

1. no ass view
2. complex understanding

[torn thunder]

@misty estuary could Diesel just end up as a meme if her buffs aren't good enough?

[gleaming creek]

they stated themselves that its suppose to be a chill one-handed game with booty design

why make such a team complex and non eye appealing?

[misty estuary]

she already is

[sweet panther]

Isn't that true for all of them

[misty estuary]

[sweet panther]

They're all struggling and would continue to suck if treasures suck

[fierce lake]

Treasure is the one new feauture that I don't want abandoned like rehab

[tight grove]

Rehab sound better tbh

[misty estuary]

can't wait for the SW treasure that has the following effect:

S1 Duration 5s -> 8s, ATK up value increased.
Activates upon entering full burst: +40% charge speed

surely.

[gleaming creek]

rehab is just collection purpose

OH WAO SIN ARMPI- meh... she can only live 0.83s than Xrupee
LOOK AT QUENCY'S MASSIVE T- meh.... so much better B2 support
HUG ME GUIL- meh... wack selfish SG

[misty estuary]

or maybe the base Scarlet treasure that adds:

S2 crit dmg up by like 10x, also gives Attack Damage up now.

[gleaming creek]

nikke goes like this: first new concept kit is a flop so that the next is a bit better than 3rd gen and so on is massive improvement

[misty estuary]

actually now that I think about it, early pilgrims getting treaures would be good. Means you can always exchange them for 200 gold tickets and dupe them up with 200 silvers

[torn thunder]

didn't noah always have one

[misty estuary]

we don't talk about noah

[foggy anchor]

SNeon

[misty estuary]

that's a case where the numbers were abnormally low

the burst that is.

abysmally low

[torn thunder]

is emilia already falling out?

rem might be fine

[gleaming creek]

dead since collab announced

[misty estuary]

emilia was never pve meta bruh

[gleaming creek]

rem was the golden egg

[sweet panther]

The burst is a meme even with the extra buff she gets if u level 2 skills

[misty estuary]

can't wait for the new dorothy treasure

once she gains control of the ark's power source, the doro harmony cube, she'll be unstoppable

[cold sluice]

[foggy anchor]

Inside this cube is Pinne's ashes

She deals emotional damage to enemies

[cold sluice]

LMAO

[misty estuary]

considered as true damage, ignores defense and can be buffed by frima (ignore that frima is a B1)

[indigo shale]

her stackable passive that affects her skills

[stoic tartan]

What does stackable mean

[indigo shale]

idk the thing that pringles do

[dire finch]

depend on balice kit right?

[foggy anchor]

Even with Tove only, hypothetically she's at least S tier, highest SS tier

[tepid token]

Just a reminder that Alice Banner will debut when Soda Banner is still running, so you guys should wait until Alice drops to decide how to spend resources.
For whales, just go all out lol

[foggy anchor]

I cum

[tepid token]

Why do I have a feeling Alice Alt kits would be mediocre... maybe because summer event come after bunny event

so Summer banner will at least good

unless ShiftUp decide to drops 3 metas

[foggy anchor]

It'll be niche rather than mediocre

[sturdy canopy]

Alice gonna be bonker

[tepid token]

I'm not a fan of Soda new design, but her kits are so good, I will consider to pull...

[heavy flint]

Alice just needs 1 thing to be meta-defining, and that's not having a stack increase effect that activates based on 2% like tove does

If she doesn't, then absolutely everyone on her SG team that being tove Leona privM and BSoda will benefit from it and it will make the SG team actually/finally competitive

[tepid token]

Soda will be in MPriv comp, right? for raids

Schoolgirls and bunnies already carry too many B3 xD

[heavy flint]

If B.Alice does something similar to this but isn't tied directly to a code or a weapon type, she is meta

[fierce lake]

soda has no duration on her stacks

so if Alice works with Soda (she definitely will)

she'll have stack increase in her kit

[heavy flint]

We will have to wait and see if they limit it to the weapon used

If not, Tove's S1 works on stacks, Leona's S1 works on stacks. PrivM's S2 works on stacks. The entire kit of BSoda works on stacks

[tepid token]

Soda is stacks alright, ehehehe.

[tepid token]

My f2p friend only have 5k gems left after many meta banners 😭
Well he have money to spend, but doesn't want to bruh

[opal lantern]

Jackal is def not happy little accident.

[fierce lake]

convince him that spending will give him more tits and ass

[misty estuary]

Think snake and I agree that she goes there bc the devs clearly were confused when they slapped that burst onto her and underestimated how polarizing clip RL would be

[stoic tartan]

baldsenix

[heavy flint]

Yes

[glacial axle]

[misty estuary]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOt-N4Ra4AEotdo.jpg

Witness the power of the commander shopping and sleeping

[keen crown]

A bit late but I was one of the arena Rosanna enjoyers back then when Rosanna was released coz no one else cared to build her, got my peers surprised that they even started build their Rosanna too just to make it even with me

Me back then the moment Rosanna was released, went all in OL and all skills, well except skill 1 which was left at 7

[opal lantern]

They will surely post treasure skillset

[zinc rover]

surely ):

[keen crown]

Well I didn't know being jackal linked makes her stealth not cancelleable back then

[glacial axle]

🤝

[torn thunder]

@misty estuary I have a meme idea for putting Abnormal in Standard Recruit: What if Abnormal could be used as a wildcard for any of the manufacturers in the wishlist?
Example: Suppose you wanted some 2B spare bodies. You can wishlist her in any of Elysion, Missilis, or Tetra, but only once of any of the 15 slots

[misty estuary]

I mean the simplest solution is to offer generic abnormal spare bodies for silver mileage

[torn thunder]

True, but it fails to cover the edge case where someone could get stuck with a high proportion of t9 and abnormal t9 for a while

And generic abnormal spare bodies are useless to players without abnormal nikkes in the first place

[misty estuary]

that's a separate consideration man

abnormal gear is saturated with or without a spare body system for abnormal characters

[lucid nest]

[misty estuary]

that's why they are adding a recombinator for this

[lucid nest]

why are you all talking about collab contents like it's free

[torn thunder]

Well correct me if I'm wrong, aren't Abnormal effectively half as unlikely to get a as a pilgrim once you average across all banners?

[torn thunder]

Not too sure how frequently those recombinators will be given out

[misty estuary]

main point is that gear and spare bodies aren't related

for the abnormal archetype

average number of unit releases is also not a good way to understand demand

abnormal units are just, "either you were there and pulled for them or you didn't"

[upper atlas]

prob not a lot, cuz they want to sell it.

[misty estuary]

pilgrims are just low probability units that are in the pool all the time

[torn thunder]

Then what would you tell a new player to do during those abnormal banners? Whale to get max core, or more realistically skip?

[misty estuary]

long story short, that's not a question with a specific answer because you can't really generalize advice like that

[lucid nest]

the deal with collab contents are always limited. Once it's over, it's over

[misty estuary]

not only is the power of the unit in flux but the answer depends on whether that player is a spender

[torn thunder]

Anywhere is between will kneecap your progression, with maybe the exception of mlb

[misty estuary]

and even more in flux is whether they want to just get someone else's account secondhand

so you can't generalize that kind of advice

[lucid nest]

well the gears are something else tho, that's why they use Abnormal Gears and not Nier's gear

[misty estuary]

in the end you can max core something if you spend the money, it's just about whether the player wants to or not

[lucid nest]

only game's admin can add collab contents directly into your account without being noticed

[misty estuary]

and about whether the units power level justifies any practical use for doing so

so again long story short, there's no general advice there

[torn thunder]

Yeah, it's very dependent on way too many factors

[misty estuary]

it depends on the character, the player's priorities like waifu vs meta, disposable income they're willing to spend, long term goals, etc.

so it can't be answered generically

[torn thunder]

Heck, they might even leave at the end of the event

Which is something SU is probably trying to avoid

[chrome aspen]

fancy name for Soda's stacks count

[fluid stag]

200%

[pure grove]

lol why Aang for Viper?

[tepid token]

theoretically, you want Soda to always have 30 chips minimum, she shoots 3 times during a burst to get 1 chip, so you want her to gain back 9 chips per burst, two bursts mean 18 chips gain back while 17 chips decrease.
so 21 ammo spent during burst, hence 21 should be her ideal ammo cap

Soda gain chips in any burst, while the chip decrease only when she Burst herself

Also Soda might need to manually reload before she enters the burst, so you can make sure she has all the ammo.

[opal lantern]

No u cant so that

U need to control PrivM and reload PrivM

Lol

Cannot manual Soda

Unless u solo her

[tepid token]

Soda has 9 ammo by default, so you want 135% Ammo OL.

[opal lantern]

Yeah we know that

SG's optimum is 2x max ammo

But that is without Tove

[fierce lake]

gonna make a risky bet: soda's best team won't have Mpriv at all

[tepid token]

Yup

[opal lantern]

But Tove also grants max ammo

So it cancels out

[opal lantern]

Cannot

PrivM shines most with Soda

[tepid token]

So the ideal team for BSoda is Leona/Tove?

[opal lantern]

Remember how Modernia is used with PrivM

AS A FUCKING SUPPORT UNIT

Soda does that better now

Well no hitrate buff but 15s full burst all the time

[tepid token]

Finally, my Tove and Leona lv 7 on all skills are not waste

also MPriv as well

[opal lantern]

Noir getting shafted from my special arena soon

[zealous peak]

ALICE TEASER OUT ON KR

kit soon

[fierce lake]

AAARRRRRGGGGH

[sturdy canopy]

Certified leaker

[winged quail]

BSoda kit after BAlice kit is out

[stoic tartan]

wait

how does b. soda maintain stacks

if b. alice doesnt stack irons

[wraith trench]

So is she still a must pull?

[stoic tartan]

hmm

i guess if we have perma tove s2 up

[analog ruin]

Every three shots during her burst

[stoic tartan]

b. soda might fire qucik enuf

yeah but idk if it stacks enuf

someone do the math

[hidden sand]

Maybe now we can make tier for long battle and short battle lmao

[charred swan]

alice will keeps stack on sg units

oh wait

she is out

[analog ruin]

I believe it was BSoda needs to make 51 shots across two bursts to make sure she stays above 30.

[winged quail]

She stack Tove

[stoic tartan]

i know

[foggy anchor]

She gives ammo and reload, giving BSoda chance to shots more when burst

[stoic tartan]

im worried about b. soda stacks

[winged quail]

To maintain the 43% atk spd boost

[foggy anchor]

And then burst gauge fills more

[stoic tartan]

yall just rereading kit to me

[foggy anchor]

Soda can enter burst again

[stoic tartan]

@opal lantern wake up

[analog ruin]

Make sure the bursts are as long as possible (i.e. Never use Isabel), fire very fast, don't have Soda run out of ammo and if need be, don't let her do a full reload: time it when the burst is over.

[stoic tartan]

[analog ruin]

Except with BAlice and Tove, you don't have to. Alice reloads Soda when the burst ends. Tove keeps her topped up during burst.

[charred swan]

so the tove balice leona mpriv boda will be team 6-7 ? or do they have better odds

[fierce lake]

For any smucks that have all five exodia parts, they are t3-t4

alice fixes everything wrong with the current sg team

[charred swan]

I have other pieces but pulling on this before summer seems

[forest stirrup]

How does bsoda look in terms of maintaining stack with balice kit out? balice gives ammo buff to bsoda but does not directly help with stacks.

[analog ruin]

It was worth refusing to reset Tove and Leona!

[stoic tartan]

if someone does math on b. soda's stack maintenance

this is prob team 3-4 yeah

[charred swan]

what we have now

jk bunnies crown sw and cope right

sw is also a cope in her own way

so its 4-5 I guess

depending on boss 3

[fierce lake]

Ok so a question. What if I can just skip Soda and plop Sanis into the exodia instead?
tove/balice/leona/mpriv/sanis

Yes I know it's heresy.

[zealous peak]

don't

sAnis wants LESS ammo while Tove and bAlice provide MORE ammo

[analog ruin]

Tove is counter to what SAnis wants

[haughty harbor]

wasnt back then peopel try Sanis with tove and see the damage more less the same?

[fierce lake]

Yep

That was why I asked.

Because Tove's buff is just THAT good

unless balice shits on her even more with her own ammo buff

[fluid stag]

entering in thread, reading sanis in max ammo team

See ya

[livid plinth]

Im about to run rupee and balice just to fulfill the stacks

[visual niche]

man how much crit rate is Shotgun team can have fully

[misty estuary]

Trivial with tove

-3-4 per re:soda cycle without Tove

so either way maintenance is trivial if you start with 50, which is the Lv10 value (possibly lower at not Lv10)

[rose mango]

So just burst 2nd with soda right?

To minimize any stacks lost

More uptime

Tove at 100% uptime is quite realistic now

B.Alice Tove Leona M.Priv B.Soda

This is your new SG team, especially targets iron weak and electric weak bosses (elements of mPriv and soda)

[opal lantern]

U want me to count how many stacks she gets

30 FB * 1.5*1.42%

[misty estuary]

p sure you burst Soda first because her burst looks like it does more damage

well

[opal lantern]

30s FB * 1.5 * 1.42% / 3 = 21.3 coins

[misty estuary]

prob barely matters if I think about it

[rose mango]

What's the atk speed with 100% uptime of tove S1 of an SG?

[misty estuary]

cause like you basically just get

10s of time to screw around with

[rose mango]

It's straight up a 42% atk speed buff?

Damn

[opal lantern]

Simplified

I dont bother calculating

How many chips Soda can get in 2 rotations without reloading:

30s FB * 1.5 * 1.42% / 3 = ±21.3 coins

She loses 17 coins per 2 rotations. Without Tove:

30 * 1.5 / 3 = 15 coins

Remember, this is all assuming no reload.

[misty estuary]

realistically I don't think the difference is that much regardless of who you burst first

[rose mango]

Aria is a water code unit that needs stacking

I wonder if you can run full 4 ammo aria and just let bsoda stack her up

Oh you can't

[opal lantern]

Aria has no stack

[rose mango]

Cuz aria is 40s

[misty estuary]

but in an ideal case case it sounds better to do soda 2nd

[rose mango]

And Alice is b0

[rose mango]

Oh fuck it's just last bullet 💀
Nvm

It's julia who stacks the crit buffs nvm

[misty estuary]

yeah Aria is the one who's just trash

[opal lantern]

SOME MATHS FOR THE NON-MATHER

How many chips Soda can get in 2 rotations without reloading and with Tove at 100% uptime:

30s FB * 1.5 * 1.42% / 3 = ±21.3 coins

Without Tove:

30 * 1.5 / 3 = 15 coins

She loses 17 coins per 2 rotations, and you need a minimum of 30 coins when she uses her Burst Skill for the final time.

Soda's uptime:uptime+downtime ratio, assuming you fully reload each time since you will pilot PrivM more, is 4.22:6.58, which equals to 64%. This means, disregarding all Max Ammo buffs and OL, with Tove at 100% uptime, she only accrues ±13.6 coins per 2 rotations. Without Tove, it will be ±9.6 coins.

You will be bursting with her a total of 5 times in a battle, so this means the loss must be LESS than -5 coins per 2 rotations. This is not -4 because you collect coins AFTER 5th FB, not before. This means you must collect at least ±12 coins per 2 rotations on average!

So, here are the takeaways:

• She is just NOT optimal without Tove because you need her attack speed to even reach ±12 coins per 2 rotations. You can still reach ±12 coins with enough Max Ammo.
• Without OL, she still works with Tove because Tove and BAlice gives Ammo buffs, etc. But it is quite tight, so not ideal. You also lose DPS on uptime:downtime efficiency.
• You NEED Max Ammo on her!
• Allies' buffs are also considered Max Ammo. Tove gives 66.7% at max stacks, and BAlice gives 40% if fully leveled.
• Bastion 1.427x.
• For minmaxing DPS, you want to regain all 17 chips per 2 rotations. This is only achievable with Tove & Max Ammo buffs. Faster accumulation also means more uptime for CRIT DMG buff.

Some extra numbers:

• 0% Max Ammo = 64% uptime
• 50% = 72.8% uptime
• 100% = 78% uptime
• 150% = 81.7% uptime — breakpoint for no Tove/breakpoint for 17 chips with Tove.
• 200% = 84.3% uptime
• 250% = 86.2% uptime

These numbers are just approximation.

Conclusion:

• 1x Max Ammo minimum. Recommended 2x.

@rose mango @zealous peak pin

[rose mango]

Too detailed, must be correct ig

[opal lantern]

Wait.

Hmm...

[zealous peak]

too many words

i trust snake

[opal lantern]

It's worse.

No.

On last final Full Burst, chips dont matter.

It's not 4 coins per 2 rots anymore.

It's 5.

[fluid stag]

Too many words, imma skip

[lucid nest]

[opal lantern]

Ok its better not worse

@lucid nest what is SG optimal hitrate

[rose mango]

90%

[lucid nest]

depend on boss range and core too

[rose mango]

[lucid nest]

90% will allow you to core shot no matter range

but with Bsmith, I'd say 70%

[opal lantern]

Soda is 40%

Oof

OL max 20%

[lucid nest]

OL max is 56%

[opal lantern]

Damn

[lucid nest]

but 11% per line is very good

[opal lantern]

You should get Hit Rate then

After ELE

[rose mango]

Ayo

[lucid nest]

yeah, HR allows her to go full core no matter what boss

[rose mango]

So 10% per piece

Is hot

[lucid nest]

even my Mpriv has 11% each gear

but due to Mpriv constantly changing hr

[rose mango]

Except she scales differently cuz her base hitrate changes

[opal lantern]

MPriv is different cus she just assumes AR hitrate

[rose mango]

Soda will scale like a shartgun

[lucid nest]

it's imposssible to reach core shot

yeah

Soda HR will be much better

damn, everything is better than Mpriv, except not really cuter

[opal lantern]

Hmm just need 3 hitrates

Also

Hitrate cube

[lucid nest]

5%

I think

it's terrible

[rose mango]

Not worth it tbh
Just run basti

[opal lantern]

Wait no Soda is limited to her burst only

Its not ideal

15/40

Low uptime

[lucid nest]

yeah

[opal lantern]

Well unless u wanna hit coreshot only during her burst

Id take crit anyday

[rose mango]

It's better than crit

[lucid nest]

15/35 to be honest

[rose mango]

oh

[opal lantern]

Idk its hard to know

Its hard to tell how hitrate increases %coreshot

You need a lot of data or maths to calculate that

If someone can do that,

We can know if hitrate is better

[lucid nest]

and it varies on boss too

[rose mango]

What if it's GD and core shot only available in 1 out of 3 minutes

Or no core boss

[opal lantern]

Update:

[misty estuary]

bastion cube omega goated

[opal lantern]

Soda has the shitty regular SG Hit Rate.

U want hitrate

No cap

Unless u wanna hit the air

[misty estuary]

there's no universe where it's better to go hit rate cube over bastion cube

[rose mango]

Value too low on cube
Not worth the worry

[opal lantern]

Well that makes Soda sucks

@lucid nest u assume full shot accuracy on ur maths?

[rose mango]

5% is so ass

[lucid nest]

10% core shot

[opal lantern]

Soda reticle is quite big

[rose mango]

Iirc, he does normal 10%

[opal lantern]

No, normal shots

Not core shots

[lucid nest]

ah yeah, normal shot is always 100% accuracy

[rose mango]

You mean all pellets hitting?

[lucid nest]

[opal lantern]

Yeah

Soda has big reticle

Similar playstyle to SAnis

SAnis has big reticle too

[rose mango]

Alice has 250% core shot

Not 200%

Wrong thread

[misty estuary]

M.Priv 30% hit rate with Leona +20% feels good mang

[lucid nest]

how long does it last

0.3s

[opal lantern]

First time reading u say mang

[misty estuary]

the spread is the same

every shot has that bullet spread

[opal lantern]

So how much hitrate does soda need to hit her pellets

[misty estuary]

p good for hitting invidilia's claw at SR range

idk

that's a context question

[opal lantern]

Average

[misty estuary]

really depends on the application

[opal lantern]

Iron counters Lightning right?

Well PVP WIPE BOIS TIME TO FUCK THEM ELECTRICS

[rose mango]

Yeah, no

[misty estuary]

honestly the question really comes down to line priority, it's like cool you can get some more hit rate but also ATK/Ele just makes your damage higher to begin with

[rose mango]

Unless there's 100% ele nothing dying

[opal lantern]

? She gets 60% atk buff

[misty estuary]

and over 1/3 of Soda's damage is just guaranteed anyway from that S2

[rose mango]

Not on her burst

[misty estuary]

so it's like imo, just take what you can get

the usual advice from me

[opal lantern]

Im sure it does apply

[misty estuary]

but as usual ele is p hard to pass up

[rose mango]

It's like
Stage 1 dude
Nah

[opal lantern]

Wat

Stage what

[misty estuary]

The order the skills are listed in

is typically also the order they activate in

[opal lantern]

There was a unit with this order

And their buffs also apply to burst

[lucid nest]

17.11% from Leona + 44% from OL Priv

[misty estuary]

so the damage to all enemies is listed first and in the first stage

[lucid nest]

[opal lantern]

We wont know till we try

[lucid nest]

Expect this spread from Soda I think

damn MPriv and her stupid gun

[misty estuary]

which unit

[opal lantern]

Nvm I misread

[rose mango]

No unit with AoE gets a buff off their own skills that are activated when FB activates

Unless of until it's a follow up extra nuke like 2butt, or maiden

[opal lantern]

I guess she is a pvp battery

How about Alice

[misty estuary]

cause for example I have tested this before, the crit rate applies first

[opal lantern]

Is that potency not affecting the 27%

[misty estuary]

and crit rate is listed first

[misty estuary]

I would guess the 150% applies after the on-burst heal

can test it out

[lucid nest]

wait so you just count 100 scarlet burst

[rose mango]

mPriv is simple proof that the AoE screen wipe is just before full burst starts

[lucid nest]

and estimate the crit chance?

[misty estuary]

I didn't say that part

I said the crit buff

[rose mango]

I think he just paused and checked which buff was shown above

[misty estuary]

no

I literally counted the number of crits

lol

[rose mango]

bruh

[misty estuary]

very noticeable when your crit rate goes from 15% -> ~35%

[lucid nest]

cuz display isn't an indicator

must count the number

[misty estuary]

Like remember I was the one who did the research for FB multiplier and FB buffs

as it interacts with initial damage and additional damage

FB multiplier applies to additional damage attacks other than 2B's, which they later bugfixed AFAIK

It doesn't apply to initial damage, which is generally conditionless damage

I tested all of this during Power's release

which is also how I discovered Soline burst 3x damage bug and Yulha (idr if Maiden was here) burst 2x damage bug

[rose mango]

I think the soline bug is still here right?

[misty estuary]

#1042458757843656774 message

blast from the past

[rose mango]

Ahh yes

The thread before maid thread

[misty estuary]

1. Scarlet's crit rate buff on burst affects the burst itself. (sample size of 27 hits)

3. Isabel's burst's additional damage component(s) benefits from the damage taken debuff applied by it, but the initial damage portion does not (verified with the second stage damage, not enough time to verify the third stage).

[rose mango]

It sort of died after UR2, wonder why

[misty estuary]

2. Yulha's burst's additional component seems to do twice as much damage as is written on the tooltip. To clarify: normally Yulha's burst hits twice at half its tooltip damage (similar to multi-hit bursts like Drake, Privaty), but the additional damage component hits twice at the full tooltip damage, which would imply twice as much tooltip damage total is inflicted. More testing required to confirm.

the classic

additional damage + multi-hit bug

multi-hits meant to be visual accidently become true multipliers on conditional damage applications

now it's just a "feature"

[rose mango]

[misty estuary]

that

was a tilter for me

[tribal salmon]

B Alice is B0.
B Alice, Tove, Leona, B Soda, M priv?

[rose mango]

Yep

Soda maybe can have use out of sg team tbh

But Alice can be skipped

[fluid stag]

balice and boda

[rose mango]

If you don't plan to run sg