lunar flax
Probably slot her into bunny team, assuming SR is something like
1: JK
2: Crown
3: last bullet
4: bunny
By the time you reach bunnies you're likely out of better DPS against a fire weak boss / Blanc's burst should be enough to let her trigger S1 off burst
hallow citrus
winter moon
But Trony is a SR
lunar flax
You reckon even in fire weak she wouldn't make team 4/5?
I don't think she's worth the investment for anyone but megawhales just for team 4/5 on the occasional SR, but figured she'd at least reach that
winter moon
If only we got more resources building Trony for Fire Weak bosses only wouldn't be that insane...
But still, I'm still waiting for a competitive whale testing Trony properly.
Do we know if Sky made a manual test with Trony? Everytime I check his live, it's always on full auto.
solar cedar
because trony is full auto
if her s2 doesn’t require 5 full charged shots, she can be minmaxed by manualling
but nope
winter moon
S2 is a trap. If you can't charge her S1 full enough, getting a x1.5 on it in meaningless.
But if you spam shots, you build her S1 way more.
Do you prefer dealing 25% x 1.5 in Full Auto or 50% in Manual ?
Keep in mind that even in manual her S2 will activate at some point, since her stack doesn't expire. Sure it will not be a 100% uptime, but it's better than nothing.
Also, playing in full auto will cause way too much damage overflow, like when her S1 is at ~90%, doing a full charge is a big DPS loss.
But when you manual her, since you deal fast small damages, you can avoid a lot of overflow.
Really, you have 0 reason to play her in Auto.
kind kettle
no, S1 is a trap
your mind is trapped in thinking you have to pop that cap no matter what
winter moon
Well, just put Crown + Naga in your team
kind kettle
if you want to pop the cap, just answer this question
winter moon
I don't really understand what you are trying to say, it's possible to reach the 100% during Burst even in Trial, so... 
kind kettle
you don't want to reach that cap
the cap limits your dmg
you want the cap as high as possible and never reach it, or have just enough dmg to fill it
lunar flax
Wait does it explode without reaching cap?
kind kettle
yes
lunar flax
I don't have her so haven't been able to test
kind kettle
it always explodes
winter moon
But you can't do anything about it, beside trying to overflow the less damage as possible
winter moon
S2 doesn't increase the cap, it increases the damage, only S1 (and various ATK% buff) increase the cap
winter moon
Mmh, well, it's wording very poorly then. Does that mean that Elegg buff have the same effect ?
kind kettle
should be
they are coded the same
someone looks into json file
should be exact same coding
winter moon
Anyway, playing a bit with the Trial version I get this: 1st is Auto, 2nd is Manual. And the result are pretty consistent.
But it's just the trial version with no OL + lvl 200, so that's why I want to see someone doing the same with a fully build Trony with OL and such.
next arrow
@winter moondo you want fire weak or ele neutral?
I'm pretty sure trony will lose on ele neutral
winter moon
Well Fire Weak, even in my wildest Dream I know Trony have no chance outside of Element Advantage.
next arrow
@winter moonWell, it directly mirrors your second pic
3 ele vs a lud with actually similar investment level
winter moon
And can you show the result in full auto too ?
next arrow
I'm not surprised because with 100% exposed core lud can actually beat some of the highest dps
winter moon
Yeah in the Shooting Range MG are pretty busted
next arrow
MG is busted in general, even more with the presence of crown
no windups forever
and I ain't gonna show full auto because there's just no point 
winter moon
I just want to see the DPS gap between Full Auto and Manual
next arrow
fine fine
I'm pretty sure the gap is like between auto alice and manual (no macro) alice
winter moon
It was the whole point of my discussion with T-Rix, he was saying Trony is a Auto unit because of the S2.
next arrow
you're talking to a guy who is a spreadsheet muncher with no actual Trony to play with
a good spreadsheet muncher mind you, but still
next arrow
@winter moondoesn't actually lose that much
so yes she's auto viable
the overall dps lost is because of auto-bursting missing out some precious milisecs
winter moon
You see, that's what I find strange. Why my trial version got a +35% DMG increase, when in your case it's a +13% increase.
It doesn't make sense, the gap is too wide, especially since Fast Charge should be more advantaged with max ammo than Full Charge.
next arrow
goes to show that trial screen results are bad things to base discoveries on
because some gals are just too investment hungry
hard sable
So she is like 25-30% of manual Alice no macro....
winter moon
Damn if only I could build my Trony
Damn you Shift Up and your resources retention
next arrow
@winter moonanother thing, if the boss has no core and is fire weak
with this setup (ignore anis) you'll pop one mark with 4-5 snapshots in burst
tested on altesen guild
winter moon
Well, it's kinda expected that she needs a Core to target too.
Sadly, until some miracle unit is release to complete the "Cumulative Damage Skill" mechanics, we need the perfect situation.
next arrow
eh I pulled her just because I like her. 3% is easy enough that once you have good ele coverage
you can do whatever you want
winter moon
I'm trying to reach 200 at least tho. I'm on global where people are less competitive, so why not take advantage.
cyan dock
Mmh, well, it's wording very poorly then. Does that mean that Elegg buff have th...
Yes
winter moon
I still don't understand why it works that way but it is what it is I guess.
leaden latch
cuz shift up decided so 
next tundra
I created a QoL feedback for Trony, upvote if you like the suggestions. #1241154039345840138 message
It’ll pretty much make her even stronger for heavy investing commanders
If we’re having to bend over backwards to perfectly leverage a mechanic to the utmost, I have to suspect that it’s a very flawed mechanic
patent echo
Doomed unit, just move on
solar cedar
requires way too many investment to be “good”
plucky silo
Sadly they have no incentive to buff units that aren't featured during Solo Raid
next tundra
Is she too doomed to be used in missilis tower?
Laplace is simply generally better in Missilis Tower since you encounter all sorts of problems in both wave stage and boss stages
Laplace > Trony (bossing) = Kilo (waves) basically
limpid spear
Laplace is simply generally better in Missilis Tower since you encounter all sor...
I was thinking of replacing drake... is that worse?
next tundra
Laplace should lose to Trony vs most bosses though, but Laplace evens it out by doing good in both things
limpid spear
next tundra
I was thinking of replacing drake... is that worse?
If Drake was one of your two main bursters, Trony should deliver significantly better results in bossing if you can put up with her mechanics
limpid spear
I was running tiga liter laplace drake
And drake just meant I had to wait 40 seconds to do good damage again
Because shotguns 
I guess that answers my question, ty
next tundra
Eh it’s still a tough call
But if you’ve ever had issues finishing off distant enemies, replacing Drake with Trony would help a lot
The problem is you do face fights at two different extremes, some will be distant enemies, others will be close up enemies. Drake’s still pretty decent with the close up ones
Gravedigger fight, I think people would say use Drake over Trony
patent echo
Im fairly confident drake’s teamwide buff is still a net positive compared to using trony
mighty walrus
maxwell better at that honestly
winter moon
Even Trony is aware
weak needle
How's Trony so far
kind kettle
weak needle
Can't tell if she's worth investing in or not cuz my goofy teams look like this
kind kettle
having her is the only first step
putting skill books is the major step
OL and fish for good options is the last step
I spent 60 pulls to pull her too, but for collection because there's no way I'm gonna invest in her
sterile tapir
hard sable
willow field
round apex
Do they give you something for that? I thought it was just for show.
next tundra
Do they give you something for that? I thought it was just for show.
A trifling amount of core dust, and a point toward your gold, silver, or bronze frames if you weren’t beaten to them by a crowd
Have to hit the milestones listed in there though, not just any random number
solar cedar
the higher your score, the longer your penis
plucky silo
Do they give you something for that? I thought it was just for show.
Frames
trail dragon
tldr slightly better than 2b vs bosses with core if you manual her, she needs a ton of mats, don't pull her unless she's your wife
kind kettle
or pull her but don't spend resource on her for collection
if you spend your resource, don't cry about it later on
clever lance
time to judge ppl for their preferences
flat ridge
so I should pull for her if I dont have 2B? 
fair saffron
you could just not pull her
clever lance
so I should pull for her if I dont have 2B? <:THONK:442446969886081034>
I would use off burst nihil instead of her for a fire sr 
snow tapir
so I should pull for her if I dont have 2B? <:THONK:442446969886081034>
I would say one copy is good
If u don't have 2b
But she'll be powercreeped pretty easily
hard sable
I would say one copy is good
solar cedar
it wasn’t looking good when I calculated that she needs 18 full charged (9 with core hits) shots off burst to fill s1
18 full charged shots in 5 s lmao
fair saffron
just slow down time, ez
trail dragon
to start accumulating damage for another s1 proc as fast as possible, more s1 procs = more damage
your end goal with trony if you actually invest in her, is to pop her s1 with 1 shot, which it's doable with good supports + good OL + burst + core damage
her needing all that is why you shouldn't pull for her unless you like the character
next arrow
actually your goal is to not pop marks too much
as you waste long full charges to apply marks
solar cedar
can’t have both sadly. unless you say fuck it to her s2 and just spam shots after applying s1
trail dragon
trony's damage relies in accumulating as much damage as possible,if you are popping her s1 early, it means you will trigger her s1 more times
I'm not arguing if the cap should be lower or higher, you should aim to pop it because it will translate in more damage overall
sure, there will be damage overflow and more charged shots, but the damage will be higher
hallow citrus
useless character ignore
kind kettle
if I tell you Crown burst has 9999999% ATK as cap
do you try to pop that cap "for as many instance of burst as possible"?
hard sable
hybrid flume
A query, if shift up would release a unit that increase elemental damage dealt (damage as strong element? Or are they not the same?) for fire units like by 100% or more, would it help Trony to have more damage over 2B/A2?
hybrid flume
Yeah, but it would maybe help trony maybe hit cap in just one full charge after applying the buff or something? Or even if she is not bursting if that elemental atk buffet is 20s cd?
hard sable
You mean generic elemental dmg? Or specific like Sanis for example
hard sable
well that makes Alice and modernia a little stronger
Idk man but if they drop an B1 with ele dmg you pair that unit with alice
hybrid flume
well that makes Alice and modernia a little stronger
Thats why I only picked A2 and 2B coz Trony won't beat any of those two
hard sable
Not best friends because only works against fire weak codes
hybrid flume
Yup, just a specialty case if fighting wind codes
hard sable
But if they drop B1 CDR "generic elemental DMG"
Pffffff
gosh save us
P1 is that unit and crown
hybrid flume
neat sage
When I see "Trony sucks" but then her boss (solo) tiering is placed alongside Neve/Power/Laplace/Maiden/Drake/smol white
I doubt any proper DPS tests were done for this placement
clever lance
you hope so but no, ppl really tried cope on drake and lapplace
you know its bad when they are on the same tier
neat sage
I still don't know if there is a normal pool B3 that does as much damage as her, ever since launch Nikkes like Alice and Maxwell
Have there been any that compare?
clever lance
what damage
neat sage
Trony's DPS
clever lance
exactly thats what I'm asking
neat sage
The one that was calculated here before, but not pinned
lapis umbra
I still don't know if there is a normal pool B3 that does as much damage as her,...
maid privaty?
neat sage
I guess maid Privaty could be one
lapis umbra
to be fair how many of the new normal pools are dps?
neat sage
Many
Almost all B3s are 40s and meant to be DPS
Not like B3 supports do anything significant compared to DPS
plucky silo
Her damage is similar to Laplace/Drake/Smol White though
Only reason those DPS units feel like wet noodles for most people is because they don't actually invest in them
I'd be shocked if Trony could outdps Drake vs UR Alteisen
Drake could almost match Alice in that fight due to phase 2 being so long 
kind kettle
just think of Trony as normal SR with built in 50% dmg up
she's weaker than Exia with 84% ATK up tho
kind spindle
Give our smol introvert a break
She is bad but at least she is brave enough to figh bosses
though she won't survive it
maiden geyser
What Trony needs are socks and shoes, then she’ll outdps Alice
That’ll be Trony gacha skin
snow tapir
When I see "Trony sucks" but then her boss (solo) tiering is placed alongside Ne...
Trony sucks and her rating is with other characters that suck?
neat sage
As if she doesn't outdamage all those others in most boss scenarios
winter moon
And then, a boss without an exposed core for the whole fight appeared
snow tapir
As if she doesn't outdamage all those others in most boss scenarios
Ultimately her use will be the same as lapchan, drake, or such
next tundra
As if she doesn't outdamage all those others in most boss scenarios
Basically, unit grading is relative to available units
If Scarlet and the company didn’t exist - Red Hood, Alice, Modernia, Scarlet: Black Shadow, and so on
Trony’s unit grade would jump up
She beats Laplace at bossing for example
(Unless boss caters to Laplace kit)
But because those other units are available…
Trony gets suppressed down because we just can’t own all Nikkes and max all of these Nikkes. Normally.
As well as limited battle slots
oblique notch
she doesn't get surpressed down because the other exists she gets to be good because they exists
if she was a release day nikke without the tough competition her kit would be worse
hallow citrus
As if she doesn't outdamage all those others in most boss scenarios
this tier is the tier where u bring them solely if u need to break an ele qte, otherwise its negative dmg
kind kettle
hallow citrus
time to check out @snow tapir 's tier list
kind kettle
if we removed all the SS => SSS
Then I could arrange a better dmg chart for you
hallow citrus
havent looked in a while
mystic bloom
next tundra
I have to concur, it’s probably time for another tiering sweep
Noise was pretty good but nowadays I never touch her unless Solo Raid in particular
Also, why is Rem still SS?
👀
solar cedar
the only correct tier lists are three tiers:
-meta permanent place
-waifu only no meta
-use this when you don’t have anyone better
next tundra
If there’s a way to work in roles, it’d help too
SSS tier Crown, Naga, fine.. but they do very different things
Tank/OffenseBuff for Crown, Heal/OffenseBuff for Naga
kind kettle
use whatever above meta lines
below meta lines, we sugar coat your waifu
so simple
nowadays, people using SBS with Crown and said, damn, my SBS clearing god speed
I wonder where they were before Crown tho
ruby void
Rapunzel should move up no? I see her go with Crown most of the time since she's the only one who reliably keeps crown's skill 2 atk damage buff (not counting naga)
hard sable
Rapu...
She revives cuz we need perma heal crown
And Naga is busy with Tia in SR/UR
next arrow
I use peppa with her
lost blaze
same boat using pepper + dolla since rapunzeless 
uneven oriole
My favorite offmeta dps
hallow citrus
tall kite
Rapunzel meta
She should climb a tier in boss raid now with crown
Lets probably be real, she will likely be on everywhere crown go
Oops my bad, this is midny megathread. Sorry
hallow citrus
it bothers me when
people draw conclusions on units
solely off the most immediate prior SR
imagine they make a boss
"can only be damaged by soldier OW"
"omg soldier OW belongs in SSS tier did u see her usage last SR"
novel is still superior to all those units in A
clever lance
just get lucky
modest pelican
Only reason those DPS units feel like wet noodles for most people is because the...
What investment levels do the testers use for these tier lists?
plucky silo
The tier lists are usually just using paper math 
Testing is only necessary to verify what math isn't apparent at the start
kind kettle
I may provide perfect roll c7
But not guarantee tho
Also, mostly we use math to indicate dmg
Since this game is not moba, your dmg varies only on crit and you suck
Like your snow cant pierce
I miss the part where it is my problem
plucky silo
Yup, and since investing to max in this game takes an absurd amount of resources, it's simply not cost effective to invest in those lower tier DPS
It's not that they don't deal damage. It's more just why invest that much in inferior returns 
Trony could be worthwhile to invest in for people without Alice who joined post-NieR since Fire would be a major weak spot for them
but no point until we actually have another Wind SR show up
surreal oyster
Trony is going to be power crept/overtaken in like 2 weeks probably lmao
it's just a foot fetish picture unit
hallow citrus
Trony is going to be power crept/overtaken in like 2 weeks probably lmao
She was powercrept a year ago
snow tapir
The only nikke trony directly competes for a spot in solo raid is drake
If the boss is close enough, I think drake wins that battle
surreal oyster
Gimme drake every time regardless of range
Checklist:
☑️ More time more cores
☑️ Not a weird degen
☑️ goofball
☑️ Villian
oblique notch
drake might not be a degen but she's def weird
maybe the weirdest of them but the competition is pretty steep
inland delta
Noise is good wdym
May not be widespread
But shes just broken
In one way
But dps is king
hallow citrus
sterile tapir
@kind kettle@snow tapir
sterile tapir
Before
Deals Distributed Damage to all nearby enemies upon reaching the maximum accumulated damage.
After
Deals Distributed Damage to enemies within the attack range when Cumulative Damage Skill explodes.
no matter how much damage you accumulate, it explodes
snow tapir
<@381720888539742230><@390152688605593603>
Can u share skill effect descriptions of Dorothy brand and trony cumulative skill
snow tapir
I don't get it
No real change unless or until you can apply brand to 2 or more people
In which case it is still no change 
Maybe story ratings go from C->B
sterile tapir
Dorothy
golden lichen
Paradise Lost
Cooldown: 20s
■ Affects self. Manifestation: Cooldown of Skill 2 ▼ 18 sec, lasts for 10 sec. Gain Pierce for 10 sec.
■ Affects a designated enemy.
Brand: Accumulates total damage dealt to the designated enemy during the duration, and then deals that accumulated damage to all enemies as Distributed Damage once the duration ends. The maximum accumulated damage is 8900.83% of the caster's final ATK. Lasts for 10 sec.
Trony
T.Rony Bomber
■ Activates when hitting the target with Full Charge. Affects the target if there are no enemies in T.Rony Bomber status. Cumulative Damage Skill for 5 sec.
Function: Accumulates part of damage inflicted by the caster. Upon reaching the maximum accumulated damage, deal damage to enemies before ending.
Effect 1: Maximum Accumulated Damage is 1536% of the caster's final ATK.
Effect 2: Accumulates 50% of damage dealt by self.
Effect 3: Deals distributed damage to all nearby enemies upon reaching the maximum accumulated damage.
This is the new one?
clever lance
I don't see any change on doro
sterile tapir
Trony still says upon reaching max damage, no mention of detonation from time
this part was indeed changed
the change was here
OLD:
Effect 3: Deals distributed damage to all nearby enemies upon reaching the maximum accumulated damage.
NEW:
Effect 3: Deals Distributed Damage to enemies within the attack range when Cumulative Damage Skill explodes.
oblique notch
it's just text anyway but do we know if this is eng only?
or do all regions get a change
sterile tapir
this is weird tho since the function itself has the explosion set to reaching max damage?
KR was changes too
This is what KR twitter redirects you to for changelog: https://game.naver.com/lounge/nikke/board/detail/4107371
snow tapir
Fk kr
There's no change
This was happening so instead of fixing their shit code they just changed wording
sterile tapir
lofty basalt
damn, she's so bad that even SU gave us rest skill point
clever lance
https://discord.com/channels/946719263866101821/1240720451651502182
so she is even worse on campaign
wow
solar cedar
trony is SS tier because she gave us 3 skill resets
cyan dock
I don't see any change on doro
they meant the actual tooltip thing u click on.
all they did was just explain what the distrb dmg buff does
jaunty cove
It was indeed not clear on if we get distributed damage when not being able to reach the damage cap. It was after ppl testing that I know we get it.
kind kettle
yeah
the S1 is indeed distributed dmg
but whether it deals on multiple targets or not
depend on if S1 is filled or not
jaunty cove
But I don't know if this is bad enough for warranting skill resets, not like I am complaining hoarding more 
kind kettle
if it weren't distributed dmg, elegg and Trony S2 wouldn't affect it
I need to reset D, up her skill out of rage
still can't beat Modernia anyway
sterile tapir
yeah they are in mail and active
mystic bloom
That's a little strange. I thought they give the reset chips once every few months
Not complaining, but I do need them anyway to use it on rem
winter moon
They saw all the copium in this thread and took pity and us
kind spindle
So she is still bad but at least with better english description on skills
sterile tapir
yep
oblique notch
400mb download for this ??
ember condor
we need mid and bad units, summer is on the corner with maybe 4 new units if we refer to the last year, will see
next tundra
Well better if she is trash, new limited summer units could be meta
Summer Trony: More Feet
hard sable
dull basin
So now that feet girl is buffed should I pull?
mystic bloom
It says the effect remains the same
Only the text has changed for better understanding
winter moon
Text buff is still a buff
fair saffron
Still skip, but thanks for the skill resets
maiden geyser
We didn’t need better understanding to know she’s shit. But the free resets were great
mystic bloom
Yep, I desperately needed them for Rem since I stopped using her right after crown came out
fair saffron
Rem still useful in SR, lets not be that hasty lol
maiden geyser
It’s so funny. When emi and rem came out the public perception was emi would be benched and rem would see action. Now it’s the reverse 🥹
fair saffron
Too late, I just used 1 on her
Shoulda wait for several more SR lol, she is still a very good support + dps MG unit
definitely could be used in team 4 or 5
hard sable
So now that feet girl is buffed should I pull?
She was trash and now she is understandable tash
shut scroll
Is she truly trash? I got her waiting on 2 LBs for pulling on her banner, and that came with Epinel and Rapunzel(still waiting on RH tho...).
mystic bloom
Shoulda wait for several more SR lol, she is still a very good support + dps MG ...
Yes even though she'll only benefit my SBS
plucky silo
Is she truly trash? I got her waiting on 2 LBs for pulling on her banner, and th...
She's more expensive to build than her payout is is all
A lot of people tend to view units in a black in white sprectrum of usable or unusable, but the reality is that she's mid 
If you are a newer player and don't have NieR units, she'll probably come in some use
For we who have all units at our disposal, she simply has no position to fill
next tundra
Is she truly trash? I got her waiting on 2 LBs for pulling on her banner, and th...
Basically, a put together competent team can usually definitely win when the recommended power is blue (your squad equals or exceeds the recommended power). Trony can work here
Then when you get into red recommended power, stat penalties are applied to your squad and you start to need highly efficient synergies or even more overpowered performance kits… to overcome the penalties and still win
Trony eventually collapses here
Others do much, much better here
Then there are raids, which don’t have this penalty part. Different beast, Trony has a place there, but not as a dps carry. She’s just there to counter elemental immune QTEs. Basically, a mechanic that needs correct element Nikke to interrupt
She can try to dps carry but apparently atm it’s only reaching the level of Scarlet and only when countering element
So, not functionally useless, but most would say save your pickup pulls for something else
oblique notch
don't forget to pull your copy before she's gone
solar cedar
hard sable
maiden geyser
Goodbye Tony. You will not be missed
spice nymph
I just got her is she good?
leaden latch
trashny
boreal echo
Travolta?
solar cedar
Travis Scott
hard sable
I forgot this character's existence
next tundra
Trony buff? 
opaque zodiac
