[Trony] New Unit Megathread

[snow tapir]

Where

If u got an explanation you're usable

I don't see trony being used

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/968098119717904433/1240587086915178516/2024-05-16_01-47-11.mp4?ex=66471a42&is=6645c8c2&hm=8d80049fdf280486cf6d9663d60509e28728d38df83191a446e8b61e7678a0a4&

Thank you to @oblique notch for the vid

It's over for trony

She ain't making it past the hood

[maiden geyser]

why can't we pull ark ranger

she hot

[tall kite]

U didnt skip

[maiden geyser]

just go to settings and activate windows smh my head

[tall kite]

Trya gatekeep

[maiden geyser]

he didn't pull tho if he did he wouldn't be asking for pvp volunteers

[snow tapir]

I haven't even updated the game yet

[snow tapir]

Nah it's truly over for trony

[kind kettle]

what do you expect from those PVP test

[snow tapir]

Didn't even dent

[snow tapir]

Idk, some miracle

[kind kettle]

she can't even pop the distributed dmg on her own

[snow tapir]

She finna go into D tier

[maiden geyser]

nah

[kind kettle]

nah

[maiden geyser]

make a new tier for her

Trony

[kind kettle]

go to Exia tier

[snow tapir]

Okie

[kind kettle]

so many testing to verify a mech for shit unit

[maiden geyser]

[clever lance]

I'll drop a 10 if I get her she is trash

[sterile tapir]

you gonna watch GENG BLG ?

[kind kettle]

I dropped 50

[snow tapir]

Gonna be easier for Future now

[kind kettle]

for ADE AND MILK

[clever lance]

sh didn't come

she will be meta trust

[maiden geyser]

in your dreams

where crow in meta too

[kind kettle]

I will squeeze a lot of Milk from that maid

[hard sable]

Ok

[kind kettle]

to make up that 50 pulls

[hard sable]

Trony or 2b

Who is better in p5 ele shield?

[clever lance]

I pulled leona and tove in fist multi

and they are trash

[kind kettle]

watching. Peak performance for now, why not

better than the shit team yesterday

[sterile tapir]

ye

[clever lance]

and it took me 200+ and spark for tia and dwife and they are meta

[kind kettle]

top plays AD, AD plays sup and sup plays top

[clever lance]

my rng decides the meta

[kind kettle]

peak meta

[sharp prawn]

I can sense

the commvotes gonna say "Skip, pull if you like feet".

[woeful gulch]

What's the veredict guys?

[kind kettle]

[woeful gulch]

Bout Trony?

[sharp prawn]

I hope you're not using mobile to see how awful checking pins are.

[woeful gulch]

I see thx

[kind kettle]

I check the pin on mobile

once

so confusing

peak design

[kind kettle]

yeah

it's in SETTING

magic

who the fuck thinks

oh better put it in SETTING

also has any1 watched Sky video?

17 mins, no recap, I can't

[clever lance]

yep, thats my sky

[sharp prawn]

switching UI placements and make it worse (or slightly worse)
"I did my job"
"I work as UI/UX Designer for Discord"

[clever lance]

and thats usually eddited make it shorter

[sharp prawn]

[clever lance]

more like they need to make a change

its not a matter of good or bad

they have to

[kind kettle]

sound like Dehaka

[clever lance]

sky is booking trony on stream,

[sharp prawn]

Here's a content creator idea potential

[kind kettle]

change is gud

[sharp prawn]

https://youtu.be/i3k93G1LZys?si=gM37Va1csEnIZ74s

explain nikkes like this everytime a new nikke dropped.

easy watchtime.

[sterile tapir]

DEHAKA

[sharp prawn]

is this a fucking Roshan

[kind kettle]

also, sky cut from stream. Hard to edit video that fast

[vapid gull]

too many

[maiden geyser]

Great now you make me wanna play StarCraft again

[kind kettle]

then play

I love playing campaign

not pvp tho, they roast me alive

[maiden geyser]

already finished campaign 4 times

Too memorable now

[kind kettle]

3 times here

[clever lance]

[kind kettle]

was kinda yike when they put Sarah as peak protagonist but it's fine

[clever lance]

sky just upgraded trony burst and the damage stayed same

[kind kettle]

her dmg is in S1

[maiden geyser]

Yea they did her well

[kind kettle]

yeah, imagine they put every male chars into stupid, arrogant

oh wait that's Marvel

[maiden geyser]

They can fuck off

mcu got so boring damn

[sterile tapir]

let's play coop

[kind kettle]

[novel iron]

Trony tier F, Feet tier

[hard sable]

I wanna be trony's foot

[sterile tapir]

[white sedge]

give me one reason that i shouldnt skip troony

[clever lance]

feet

[white sedge]

got it

so skip it is

[clever lance]

yep

[oblique notch]

you must forgot ALOT

[patent fern]

must pull

[kind kettle]

75% dmg of auto Alice

wow that's shit

[clever lance]

thats almost like prebuff rh

and some ppl said she is better alice back then too

that means trony is better alice

must pull

[hard sable]

75% of no reload Alice auto

damn

Must skip

[plucky silo]

Because off-SR banner

Bait by visual design, so saving period for smart people

[hard sable]

Imagine if everything is meta

[plucky silo]

Although, for devil's advocate

She's probably still worthwhile for people who skipped/weren't there for NieR

[snow tapir]

Don't upgrade trony burst

[plucky silo]

Though no reason to invest until wind raid

[snow tapir]

Hmm

[clever lance]

why

[snow tapir]

@kind kettle have u tried running trony calculations at 10/10/1

[neat sage]

So Trony's best possible support would be tons of charge speed up?

[snow tapir]

Lower cap

Faster to hit

[kind kettle]

huh

low cap = s1

not burst

[snow tapir]

Cap increases with final ATK

Right?

So when trony gets atk buffs

It's troll

[clever lance]

does the cap matter

[snow tapir]

You hit the cap less

[clever lance]

it pops either way

[kind kettle]

300 dmg per hit, cap 900
vs
600 dmg per hit, cap 1800

what's the diff

[snow tapir]

It's different cuz defence comes into consideration no?
You're not hitting 600

It's 600 - def

[kind kettle]

[sterile tapir]

just snapshot before bursting

[snow tapir]

So it can increase shot count by 1 at least

[clever lance]

it pops if you don't hit the cap after 5 seconds

does it matte if you hit cap either way

[noble dome]

Isn't higher attack better vs def?

[snow tapir]

Ohh

[kind kettle]

I swear

[snow tapir]

[kind kettle]

you can think of her S1

as free 50% dmg up

[plucky silo]

Is skill scaling info on nikke.gg yet? 👀

[kind kettle]

it's just that strong

[plucky silo]

Failed to roll her

[kind kettle]

problem is

her own dmg

[sterile tapir]

no, Jay probs still asleep

[kind kettle]

her kit is insane, her own dmg isn't

[snow tapir]

Danieru does it, not j

[kind kettle]

check Nikke.win for per lv

[snow tapir]

Smh n3x

[plucky silo]

Yeah sniper rifle problems

Oh, .win has it? Awesome

[sterile tapir]

ah wait we have analysis

[kind kettle]

if Trony was MG

Modernia would kneel

[neat sage]

Have people tested Trony without the meta supports?

[kind kettle]

it explains how broken her kit is

[neat sage]

She doesn't scale off attack damage up or enemy dmg taken up, it's pointless to run her with those when you could run the pilgrims

[snow tapir]

Tf is this

[sterile tapir]

wait wtf is this

i just looked at it too

[snow tapir]

This is an R nikkes kit

[snow tapir]

If you constantly reach max nuke

Her damage becomes good? Or no

[snow tapir]

Within 5s

[kind kettle]

I did simulate that. It's shit

[sterile tapir]

dotgg doesn't have Trony yet either

[sterile tapir]

yeah just use nikke.win or something

[snow tapir]

Damn

So it's genuinely over trony?

Even in PvP?

[kind kettle]

yes

[snow tapir]

That 5s nuke seems like it should do smthng

But it doesn't

[kind kettle]

optimistically, you don't want to reach cap

[sterile tapir]

in league terms:
GG go next

[snow tapir]

Why

[kind kettle]

it means there's no overflow dmg

let's say, she always hits 4 shots within 5s right?

[snow tapir]

But you get less nukes off during Fb

[snow tapir]

https://vxtwitter.com/Nonkichi_55/status/1791032050738470922

Unless you do this, yeah

[kind kettle]

50% of that dmg is converted into S1

so you basically have 50% more dmg

if you overflow that S1

it's no longer 50%

but 40%

30% can be

[snow tapir]

This guy got 3 nukes off in fb

Could've been 4

Maybe

[neat sage]

Does she need to full charge to accumulate damage, or no?

[kind kettle]

only first shot

[neat sage]

Oh, that's smart

[sterile tapir]

damage share where

[kind kettle]

just think like this

[neat sage]

So she needs to manual just like Alice to get her max damage

[kind kettle]

no matter how many hits you do

if your last hit is just enough to reach the cap

then there's no overflow right?

[snow tapir]

Yeah

[neat sage]

But you will cap multiple times per burst

[kind kettle]

and the S1 dmg is exactly 50% of your dmg

[neat sage]

How could you possibly avoid it?

[kind kettle]

so, 50% dmg increased

[snow tapir]

Except during burst you can proc it 3 times
And it's 112% of your damage

[kind kettle]

fast tap is something else, I'm elaborating her S1 in meaning

[neat sage]

That's fair, but if she doesn't need to full charge after the first shot, then fast tap is intended

[kind kettle]

if you want to play her S1 optimitically, then yes, fast tap during her own burst is required

[snow tapir]

Fast tap still means 50% damage increase

Lol

Except during her own burst

[kind kettle]

during her own burst, it's 112% dmg increased

[neat sage]

Were the people from before using her like this, I wonder

[kind kettle]

it's actually not 50% and 112%

a little lower due to first shot wasted

to apply the debuff

[snow tapir]

So if A is damage during burst:

A×6×2.12

And if B is damage during other burst:

B×6×1.5

And then the rest is a small DPS increase

[neat sage]

So she doesn't scale well from any support...

[subtle fern]

Wow, lose 20% of effective dps

[neat sage]

That's a shame

[snow tapir]

Wait but, no?

That 50% damage increase is converted into 1500% nuke? No?

[kind kettle]

the cap exists, that's why I said perfectly, you want your dmg is just right at cap

[subtle fern]

First shot (apply debuff)
Next 5 shot (stack debuff)
Stack trigger
Repeat

[kind kettle]

so it's exactly 50%

[subtle fern]

[snow tapir]

Oh

I get it now

This is stupid

Kindof

It should be good on paper?? Why isn't it good

×2.12 damage multiplier to base damage during burst
×1.5 damage multiplier to base damage for the rest of the stage

The answer is her base damage is so shit that the multipliers don't save her

[sterile tapir]

at least she shows feet for free

[neat sage]

But, is her damage shit

Have people actually tested her damage without Crown, JKs or bunnies, with fast tap on burst?

[snow tapir]

Only way to test her rn is in crown+privaty

Cuz of ammo problems

[sterile tapir]

if her damage is mid with the best buffers ingame

it's SHIT without them

[neat sage]

It's less shit

[snow tapir]

Idk why but seeing this makes me feel like she should be better

[neat sage]

Because she can't scale with the best buffers like the others, so she only becomes better the less good supports there are

[snow tapir]

Why isn't she better

Kinda pissing me off

[neat sage]

She does need reload speed up, though, that much is true

Crown is better with other DPS, Privaty can be used there but won't reach 100% even with cube

[sterile tapir]

run her with doro privaty

[kind kettle]

it's not about dmg per shot

she shoots very hard

it's about fire rate

[snow tapir]

But fire rate can be increased with spam

[kind kettle]

I said, each bullet of Trony, averagely, has 50% more dmg than Alice

problem is, to maintain that 50% more dmg

you have to shoot 4x times slower

[neat sage]

She does shoot at Alice's speed after the first charge shot, which is something at least

[kind kettle]

nah

[neat sage]

Because you're supposed to spam shot

[snow tapir]

If I shoot 4 shots per second of 100% charge

I'm shooting ×2 her base charge damage

[kind kettle]

it's different, because Alice is 350% x 4 x 69.04% x her final ATK x abcxyz

per sec

for Trony, it's 250% x 69.04% x her final ATK x abcxyz + a bunch of spam shot x 69.04% x her final ATK x abcxyz + 1536%

over I don't know

[neat sage]

I know their atk scalings are different, but the rate at which they shoot during burst is not that different

[kind kettle]

2s?

[neat sage]

Outside of Trony having to full charge to apply the debuff

[kind kettle]

well you can only pick one

[hard sable]

alice use final atk in her formula?

[kind kettle]

either your dmg per bullet

[hard sable]

[kind kettle]

or your fire rate

[snow tapir]

Fym

[kind kettle]

now facundo, she uses middle ATK

[snow tapir]

Every nikke uses final atk

[kind kettle]

[snow tapir]

In some part of their damage

[neat sage]

I am assuming Trony applies the full 110-something atk to her accumulated damage with every shot, regardless of how charged it is

[hard sable]

[neat sage]

Which is what that video above seemed to imply

[kind kettle]

let's say you need 8 shot spam

to fill her S1

so 2s

[neat sage]

Which is to say, she is effectively setting her charge speed to 0 like Alice because she wants to accumulate damage, not deal damage with her shots

[kind kettle]

so she can trigger 1536% dmg over 3.2s

[snow tapir]

Assuming it takes 1.3s to full charge, and 2.7s to get to max cap. 1.3+2.7 = 4s

So 8 shots of Alice Vs one cycle of trony

[neat sage]

Now consider a boss without core, which cuts down Alice's shot damage but not Trony's accumulated damage

[snow tapir]

Alice is
3.5 x 8 x .6904 x 1.5512 = 29.986 of final ATK

[kind kettle]

total dmg will be

• 1536% + 1380.8% (8 shot) + 431.5% (first shot) = 3348.3%
  vs
• 3.2 x 4 * 350% x 69.04% x 2.5 (full burst + core) = 7732.48%

see?

she's always 50% of Alice

[neat sage]

What about without core?

[kind kettle]

then Trony will never reach cap

[neat sage]

Does hitting core influence her accumulated damage somehow?

[kind kettle]

and we go back to 50% dmg increased

nope

it helps you reach cap faster

[fair saffron]

What is this mythical promised cap again?

[kind kettle]

you can think of her S1 like this

• Increased your dmg by 50%, conditionally. If the dmg is over a cap, stop at cap

not like Crown, increases your dmg by 44%, unconditionally

[neat sage]

I don't understand

Core is irrelevant to her accumulated damage or its cap

[kind kettle]

cap is 15

dmg is 1

so 15 hits

with core

dmg is 2

how many hits does it take to reach 15?

8

[neat sage]

I still don't understand

[snow tapir]

for Trony, it's
(2.5 × .6904 × 2.0137 ) + 15.36 = 18.84

[plucky silo]

Corw hits deal double damage (ish)

[neat sage]

Accumulated damage is the same regardless of what she hits

[plucky silo]

More damage = hit cap faster

[noble dome]

Core lets you increase damage she deals/accumulates without increasing her cap so you reach her cap faster

[snow tapir]

Alice is
3.5 x 8 x .6904 x 1.5512 = 29.986 of final ATK

for Trony, it's
(2.5 × .6904 × 2.0137 ) + 15.36 = 18.84 of final ATK

Yeah trony will never reach that peak

[plucky silo]

Strong element and cores are vital for Trony

[kind kettle]

not really

do you want cap with Crown buff?

[snow tapir]

Nothing can save trony

[neat sage]

But her damage accumulation is the same whether or not she hits core, isn't it?

[fair saffron]

If you core +7 her, she might reach that peak

[neat sage]

It just scales off her atk stat, not damage dealt

[plucky silo]

Not owning 2B/A2 can

[plucky silo]

The cap is based on ATK

[snow tapir]

Wait, Alice is actually more

This is peak damage comparison over 3s, so Alice should be ×1.5 more

[plucky silo]

The accumulation is based on damage

[kind kettle]

yep

it's not 8 but 12

[neat sage]

Oh yeah, I read it wrong

Apologies

[snow tapir]

So Trony peak isn't even 50% of Alice peak

Lol

[kind kettle]

I just look randomly

but on my sheet, it's 47%

[maiden geyser]

Trony stonks can’t go lower

[kind kettle]

as I said, Alice burst is just that insane

[neat sage]

But Trony and Alice damage was the same when people were initially testing their damage

[kind kettle]

auto?

because on auto, kinda same

[neat sage]

I don't think all the screenshots from before were from auto

I do think people there weren't spamming with Trony, though

[snow tapir]

Alice is
3.5 x 12 x .6904 x 1.5512 = 44.97 of final ATK

for Trony, it's
(2.5 × .6904 × 2.0137 ) + 15.36 = 18.84 of final ATK

Trony is 42% if alice

[snow tapir]

What is auto fire rate for Alice?

[kind kettle]

there are more stuff that tampers with that number

[snow tapir]

1.6?

[kind kettle]

but kinda there

2.7

27 hits over 10s if you can afford enough ammo

[neat sage]

I'm not following the math there because I don't know what each number means

[snow tapir]

30.36 / 18.84

[snow tapir]

Skyjlv uses 16

[kind kettle]

dafuq 16

[snow tapir]

1.6 over 10s

[kind kettle]

did he play at 30 fps

or have very shitty amount of ammo?

[snow tapir]

He just uses 16 cuz of ammo

[kind kettle]

anyway, her fire rate is 2.7

her ammo is not my business

[hard sable]

Because SU specifications about final atk and just atk (specially in burst)at the end is the same shit, maybe important in hard campaign I guess

[neat sage]

Is there an eli5 version of what these numbers mean?

[snow tapir]

If we use sky rate
Then peak trony with manual beats Alice

[snow tapir]

Alice is
3.5 x 12 x .6904 x 1.5512 = 44.97 of final ATK
350% charge damage × 12 shots in 3seconds × 69.04% weapon multiplier × 55.12% atk during burst
Assumption: 100% charge speed

for Trony, it's
(2.5 × .6904 × 2.0137 ) + 15.36 = 18.84 of final ATK
(250% charge shot × 69.04% multiplier × 101.37% ATK buff) + 1536% nuke

I see the mistake I made

I forgot to add math for trony normal shots

[neat sage]

Indeed

[snow tapir]

Which should be 15.36/1.5 ideally?

[neat sage]

I don't know how to calculate uncharged shots honestly

[snow tapir]

Or no

[snow tapir]

@kind kettle how to add this

It should be +10.24?

[kind kettle]

what

[snow tapir]

Trony normal shots to reach 1536%

It should be 15.36/1.5?

[kind kettle]

why 1.5

[snow tapir]

Wait yeah it's smthng else

[kind kettle]

it's out burst or other burst?

[snow tapir]

In trony burst

[unique haven]

[kind kettle]

out burst
1536%/(69.04% x 103%)

oh in trony burst

[unique haven]

alright modernia gamer i will skip the barely disguised fetish nikke

[kind kettle]

1536%/(69.04% x 112.83% x 201.37% x 250% x 2.5)

without core, change 2.5 => 1.5

every 2 shots, cap's reached

[snow tapir]

+6.527

So +7 shots

[kind kettle]

so 1536% every 3 shots

[snow tapir]

Doable

?

[snow tapir]

If we add core here

[kind kettle]

oh I put full charge

[snow tapir]

We also add core in alice

[kind kettle]

for tap shot, change 250% => 103%

[snow tapir]

Yeah, 7 shots

6.3 shots = 7 shots

Doable in 1.7 seconds I think

So 3s cycle is good measure

[kind kettle]

I just don't understand why you are so obsessed with that cap

[snow tapir]

Alice without buffers is:
3.5 x 12 x .6904 x 1.5512 = 44.97 of final ATK

Trony without buffers is:
(2.5 × .6904 × 2.0137 ) + (7×1.03×.6904×2.0137) + 15.36 = 28.89 of final ATK

So trony is 64.2% of Alice

[snow tapir]

Because that's the max damage cycle

Over 3s

That's the max trony should be able to dish out

[kind kettle]

so if I tell you Crown burst has 999999999% ATK cap

[neat sage]

So Trony wants even more atk to spend less time on full charged shots

[kind kettle]

will you try reaching it too?

[snow tapir]

Wdym
Reaching the cap would still be the same, no?

[kind kettle]

only when it's exactly the cap

if first shot is 49%

you are guaranteed to waste S1 dmg

[unborn atlas]

Wasting B1 atk buff on all your units just for 1 sub par unit to do what its supposed to do

[neat sage]

Actually, I just thought of something

From what T-Rix said, for Trony, full charge is 2.5 damage and tap shot is 1.03

That means her DPS from shots is higher with tap shots, so she wants to full charge as little as possible

To get more tap shots before she needs to reapply the buff, she just needs to fight a boss without core

Her damage goes down, Alice's damage also goes down, but hers goes down less since she spends more time on tap shots

[snow tapir]

You can do 5 tap shots in 1.3s
Only 1 full charge shot in 1.3s

So 515% Vs 250% damage

[neat sage]

Does my logic make sense

Actually, it probably doesn't since she wants to apply the distributed damage as many times as possible, since it's more damage than her tap shots

[snow tapir]

Yeah that's the obvious logic that we're going for

1 full charge shot + 7 tap shots = 1 full cycle

Of nuke

[neat sage]

Yeah, I was thinking how it would change if boss had no core

[snow tapir]

That's 3s cycle

[neat sage]

It would be 1 full charge + 14 tap shots, which is more DPS from shots, but less distributed damage per second

[snow tapir]

If you have no core, it's 7 shots
If u have core, it's 4 shots

Per cycle

So cycle shortens down to 2.5s every nuke

[neat sage]

Oh, nevermind

[snow tapir]

But as gatrix has said, you don't want to overflow that damage since that wastes damage

[plucky silo]

Wow, just playing her is a pain

[snow tapir]

Wastes that ×1.5 or ×2.12 multiplier

And that's what I've been thinking about right now

[neat sage]

I like manual shooting with Alice the most, which is the only reason I'm tempted to pull Trony

But I'm trying to think what works well with her

[plucky silo]

Oh interesting, the 50% ratio has no scaling

If the plan is to quick shot, I assume that means S2 is useless after all?

[kind kettle]

yeah

[next arrow]

no, you still need to full charge to apply the mark

[kind kettle]

and S2 only increases the cap so it's okay

[plucky silo]

I mean quick shots once S1 is procced

[kind kettle]

assuming you are trying for the cap

[plucky silo]

Firing similar to how Laplace was done back in the day

Charge then stream of quicks

[neat sage]

Actually, does S2 apply after 5 cycles, since you have to full charge once per cycle?

[next arrow]

you'll need to find a good tempo for that full charge+snapshots dance

[neat sage]

Or do they have to be consecutive

[snow tapir]

So essentially what you're saying is that the 7th shot I do, will always be a waste if it hits cap

So it's better to increase the cap so much that it becomes impossible to hit in 5s

[kind kettle]

yep

or just enough to fill the cap

[snow tapir]

So stack ATK buffs

[kind kettle]

like exactly 100%

[plucky silo]

So with sky not dealing any more damage after upgrading burst; is that some sort of bug or did he skill issue?

or is the kit just that bad?

[snow tapir]

Oh that was obvious, he just wasn't realising why it was happening

It's because he was never hitting the cap anyways, so upgrading burst was minor DPS increase

[plucky silo]

I feel like going from 59.9% ATK to 101% is a pretty big increase tho

or was the rest of his team comp also stacking ATK?

[snow tapir]

If you're not hitting the cap, that ATK buff increases the cap, and since you're not increasing the cap, you're doing same damage

[plucky silo]

[neat sage]

Perhaps the atk buff from burst was diluted in atk buffs

[plucky silo]

Increasing ATK should mean more damage

Pretty sure Scarlet deals more damage when she stacks S1

[neat sage]

What is the atk buff at level 1?

[plucky silo]

59.9%

[neat sage]

I mean, a 40% addition to that

Diluted in buffs from Liter and Crown, for example, dunno what the team was

[plucky silo]

Yeah, I haven't seen the gameplay, so I don't know what team was used

If Liter/Crown was used, then yeah, that makes sense

so burst is low priority then?

[opal forum]

is trony worse than crow

[neat sage]

If that person didn't hit the cap once during Trony's entire burst, they were definitely using her wrong

[plucky silo]

Depends

Better damage than Crow

[neat sage]

She hits cap 3-4 times per burst from what I saw

[plucky silo]

Probably was letting her only full charge

which is bad

[neat sage]

Very possible, her damage goes way up with tap shots

Did anyone test if full charge shots for S2 have to be consecutive, though?

[plucky silo]

I can test that now if not

[snow tapir]

59.9 -> what value is lvl10?

[plucky silo]

101%

[snow tapir]

101.37

[neat sage]

I don't think people have tested it, I'd appreciate if you did

[plucky silo]

Doesn't have to be consecutive

[snow tapir]

×1.59 scaling

[neat sage]

Ah, interesting

[snow tapir]

Damn, the scaling is shit

[neat sage]

So she does benefit from S2 even with tap shots

[plucky silo]

So yeah, she'd be getting the S2 every five S1 procs

[neat sage]

10s is a good duration for the buff

She can slap like 4 explosions on the boss in that duration

[plucky silo]

Yup

The damage ratio increase scaling is bad, too

37.12% to 62.83%

[snow tapir]

Regardless, full auto means sky was using less optimal trony

[plucky silo]

7 is 54.26%

[snow tapir]

He can only do 3 shots in 5 seconds, sometimes 4

[neat sage]

I didn't think I would say this, but I might pull for her right now

[plucky silo]

7 → 10 is only 8% increase

87.55% on the ATK buff

[kind kettle]

new confirmation

[snow tapir]

U used Elegg?

[kind kettle]

no need

just shoot 3 full charge

[snow tapir]

Oh, just went into full burst

[kind kettle]

1 full charge to apply S1

tap tap tap

then 1 final full charge

[snow tapir]

Yeah, Kos alrdy tested this xd

Back with Elegg and doro

Its distributed damage thing

[fair saffron]

so much research to find out how shit she is

[kind kettle]

this KR dude is wise

[neat sage]

Then again, this seems to be way better than... every single other normal banner Nikke aside from Alice herself, for damage

[kind kettle]

well she's B3

she's supposed to deal good dmg

[neat sage]

And so are the other B3s, and they're much worse

[plucky silo]

That's a weird assumption

[neat sage]

I don't even remember who's supposed to deal good damage in normal pool aside from Alice and... Guillotine, at low HP

[neat sage]

Maxwell, I guess

[plucky silo]

[neat sage]

Good burst damage and support at the same time

[kind kettle]

there's good

there's great

and there's meta

[neat sage]

Okay I have her

Time to have fun

I honestly thought she would be worse than what she is

[kind spindle]

She is good, not meta

[snow tapir]

5 shots of 130% basically waste no damage

[neat sage]

She'll make it into SR often enough

I think

[plucky silo]

She'll definitely become an SR unit for those without NieR units

[kind kettle]

well I add her 50%/112% dmg up unconditionally

still shit

[kind spindle]

Compare to 2B?

[plucky silo]

(unless we get better Fire before next Wind raid)

[kind kettle]

no point in finding out the good rhythm

[snow tapir]

Man I tried

Trony is hopeless

Just listen to gatrix

[plucky silo]

[snow tapir]

Fuck this unit

[kind spindle]

A2 xD

[neat sage]

I never got 2B or A2 to work properly, honestly

I like them, but still

[plucky silo]

Still confused. My statement was that she'd be used for people who don't have NieR units

[fair saffron]

finally, you've stopped inhaling the copium

[plucky silo]

Why would one compare them then?

[neat sage]

Well, what if people do have the Nier units

[kind spindle]

...I'm skipping because I have both Nier Units

[neat sage]

I have them all, and so what

[plucky silo]

This is her competition for newer players

[neat sage]

I don't even know if A2 was ever popular in SR, I don't remember

[snow tapir]

Alice without buffers is:
3.5 x 12 x .6904 x 1.5512 = 44.97 of final ATK

Trony without buffers is:
(2.5 × .6904 × 2.0137 ) + (5×1.3×.6904×2.0137) + 15.36 = 12.51+15.36 of final ATK = 27.87

Over cycles of 3s of each, during their burst, front is 62% of Alice that has no pierce and 4shots/s macro

[plucky silo]

She was for Whitesmith since she was a feature there

She's popped up here and there since at very low usage

but she's useful in Campaign

[neat sage]

Oh yeah, the first one did have her because it was for her

In campaign idk, I only know pilgrims and Liter

And Naga

[sterile tapir]

Core 6 Crow in synchro

actual bricked account

[fair saffron]

crow apologist

[plucky silo]

Yeah, I'm one dupe away from quitting the game

No, I sync all SSRs without exception

I hate Crow

She just likes me

[neat sage]

I do wish Kilo was at least as good as Trony

[plucky silo]

;poppo:

Kilo is better than Trony for mobbing

[neat sage]

[next arrow]

duh, she has a true screenwipe

[plucky silo]

Just has no anti-boss mechanics

[neat sage]

But bosses...

[maiden geyser]

well if when you c7 her you have to put crow as your profile pic with the shiny turned on. I'm sorry thems the rules

[plucky silo]

Refused

I have Prisma SW

[maiden geyser]

prism crow >> everything else

[plucky silo]

For becoming a pin cushion in Arena, maybe

[maiden geyser]

can confirm, personally hate the guy with crow pfp in arena

.

[snow tapir]

62% of Alice means ~74% of scarlet

[opal forum]

So hard save for summer now?

[maiden geyser]

ye

[plucky silo]

Yeah, just get Trony in wishlist

unless patch notes at end of this event say Wind SR next

(and you don't have 2B)

[snow tapir]

Which takes us back to this again

[opal forum]

I have both

[snow tapir]

It's over now

No more cooking for trony

B/C tier nikke

[neat sage]

I have 2B but so what... need to carry Mast around with her

[plucky silo]

Don't HAVE to

[neat sage]

What else would you use

[opal forum]

Nayhuta this summer?

[kind spindle]

Ah yes, Scarlet become a standard unit of measurement, surpass metric and the other.

[plucky silo]

[neat sage]

What is this team

[plucky silo]

T5 for Wind Bringer

aka the trash comp

Volume/Mast/2B/Helm/Scarlet was overwhelmingly common, but not mandatory

[neat sage]

I do not know what to say about a team with Novel and Sakura

[cyan dock]

damn didn't sky say some shit like she could be equal to mod?

[plucky silo]

In ideal circumstances

[cyan dock]

or is it cus we now know her s1 cant eat atk dmg or dmg taken buffs like doro

is it also like doro, where ele dmg doesnt buff the s1 dmg?

[snow tapir]

Nah he was wrong

[snow tapir]

It won't, yeah

All it does it helps you reach cap faster

[plucky silo]

Maybe equal to Modernia while she's bursting

[snow tapir]

But as gatrix pointed out, you probably never want to reach cap

[maiden geyser]

big copium energy

[fair saffron]

guy was too busy looking at her feet

[winter moon]

Do we have a test with a fully build Trony + manual play?
I feel like she loses way too much damages in auto, and all tests I saw are in full auto...

[next arrow]

I tested with manual vs alice, but people ignored my finds because they are high on doomcope

[oblique notch]

what did you find ?

[astral wadi]

Crow in synchro

[winter moon]

Yeah I saw it and that's why I tested Trony in manual... but with the trial version so it's not worth much xD
Nonetheless, in trial a gain nearly 40% DPS with manual, so I wonder how a fully build Trony managed in a real situation.

[snow tapir]

Where and what

[next arrow]

realistic results instead of spreadsheet alice assuming that she's on gamer chair all the time

from: bubba4619 has:image

on search bar

[snow tapir]

I mean

[oblique notch]

alice on gamer chair is realistic though people use her like that

[next arrow]

well I don't. I don't use any macros at all

[snow tapir]

Alice without buffers, full auto, no Ammo OL:
3.5 x 6 x .6904 x 1.5512 = 21.9 of final ATK

Trony without buffers is:
(2.5 × .6904 × 2.0137 ) + (5×1.3×.6904×2.0137) + 15.36 = 12.51+15.36 of final ATK = 27.87

There u go

Now trony is better

[snow tapir]

Keep in mind that I input peak macro trony as well

And not just macro alice

I was comparing peaks

[snow tapir]

For casuals, I suppose trony better

[next arrow]

yeah, but doesn't matter much to me because I don't use macros

[snow tapir]

Macro is like 4.5 shots/s
4 shots/s is human speed

For example of facundo

If u go the casual way I guess you go:

Alice without buffers, full auto, no ammo trouble:
3.5 x 8 x .6904 x 1.5512 = 29.98 of final ATK

Trony without buffers, full auto, no ammo trouble:
(2.5 × .6904 × 2.0137 ) + (3×2.5×.6904×2.0137) + (3×2.5×.6904×2.0137×1.12) = 25.58 of final ATK

Hmm wait, this should be 5s cycles now

[snow tapir]

Yeah Alice is slightly better still

#1240227443562905661 message

Matches your results

[next arrow]

thanks for verifying

[cyan dock]

from my calculations, a lvl 400 trony should be stronger than lvl 1 Alice.

[hard sable]

Buff

?

[hard sable]

[maiden geyser]

Lmao

Inb4 they get even more convoluted descriptions

[sterile tapir]

Troni

[maiden geyser]

Troni

[hard sable]

Not me, and I reach top 200

But I'm not in 4/s shots

3.4/s I guess?

[hard sable]

[snow tapir]

@leaden latch

[hard sable]

[snow tapir]

They did indeed, straight up have Alzheimer's

[winter moon]

@next arrow Does your Trony have good or trash OL lines?

[hard sable]

someone kill nikke translator pls

[hard sable]

Now she is Troni

[winter moon]

And I'm Horni

[next arrow]

3 ele, 2 charge damage lines, 11% atk, 68% ammo

[winter moon]

Nice Troni

You were testing against the Wind Boss I presume.

[next arrow]

yes, so alice also gets ele advantage

[snow tapir]

Alice would also have ele adv

[winter moon]

Yeah I know, I just wanted to see if his Trony were in the optimal condition or not.

[hard sable]

As a Alice manual player

Maybe 6-7 months ago when I was bad playing Alice manual

but now I can surpass (if I'm not tired) my own Rh so Trony is an easy skip for me

[winter moon]

I'm just surprise Bubba gains only 36m by playing Trony in manual.
I mean, sure the Trial version is far from the real deal, but I gain 46m by playing the Trial Trony in manual.
I find it weird the gain is lesser in your test

[next arrow]

It's the first day so I haven't found a tempo yet

I literally got the idea of manualing her from someone else

[snow tapir]

Can someone send 1/1/1 values for trony?

Skills

[hard sable]

Imagine pull for trony

Troni*

[kind kettle]

50 tix

For ade and milk

Bye

[cyan dock]

https://nikke.win/en/characters/trony/1

[winter moon]

How did you play her then? On my test, I just full charge, and then spam fast charge until 5s or if the mark explode. And then I full charge again.
The timing changes depending of Full Burst / various Buffs tho, so you should keep track to not waste any shoot.
One of the most challenging unit to manual imo.

[snow tapir]

Just do full auto

Let em both cook

[winter moon]

Full Auto is trash

[snow tapir]

Yeah well if you manual, might as well manual alice

Cuz that's a bigger DPS increase

[winter moon]

I mean, I won't play Alice and Trony on the same team, obviously

[next arrow]

this. You actually don't want to place them together

[snow tapir]

https://vxtwitter.com/Nonkichi_55/status/1791032050738470922

This is how you play trony otherwise

[snow tapir]

Oh also, I just remembered

Alice gives trony charge speed

[next arrow]

I tested with 1 charge + around 2s of snapshots. If I'm in burst, 2-4 snapshots to pop mark, reapply with full charge. Repeat

[leaden latch]

i think u would only do this if trony is ur only sniper(or with RH)

[snow tapir]

So Alice is actually buffing trony

[leaden latch]

since ur also gaining from just spamming ur other sniper/rl

like a maxwell

[next arrow]

THIS is actually how I play her. If you can, pin this. This is how you manual Trony.

[winter moon]

Yeah It's kinda how I play her as well.

Sad he didn't show the result tho

[snow tapir]

Check his twitter maybe he did

[winter moon]

He didn't

[plucky silo]

That's how Laplace used to be played when she was more relevant

[next arrow]

she'll be more relevant really soonish
when they release treasure on eos month

[maiden geyser]

and Laplace gacha skin too

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1059468005911830558/1239810997456343061/1137756425679011890.gif

[winter moon]

Don't worry, in the next Dev Notes they will announce they postpone the Treasure Update for 2 months

[maiden geyser]

They actually don’t even mention champions arena anymore, so they won’t mention treasures anymore too if they’re gonna delay it again

[winter moon]

So that's why they don't want to release another Dev Notes, smart.

[plucky silo]

No gacha skin until July tho

[kind kettle]

Laplace treasure: she ignores 100% penalty

[maiden geyser]

Laplace treasure: she breaks your phone screen

[kind kettle]

hero never yields

so you can't put penalty on her

[hard sable]

Hero final atk of early atk?

[cinder owl]

I. Thought it was a must pull snake

.

[dull basin]

is trony a pull?

[sterile tapir]

no

must skip

[dull basin]

thanks

[hard sable]

Chinese pins

[plucky silo]

Throw in wishlist and/or get spooked while rolling for summer units

[willow field]

[hard sable]

Summer if they are good

[mystic bloom]

Indeed

[willow field]

Then you get core 7 S. Neon

[mystic bloom]

Pretty sure they'll do rerun banners for the previous summer units

[plucky silo]

I'd be fine with that

I'm a collector-type of player, so investing in every unit is the dream

[willow field]

[hard sable]

I'm casual player who likes play the game

reasons why I don't play auto

[oblique notch]

you're saying you're only top 200 because you don't

[hard sable]

I don't doggy?

Well last raid I was lucky because global players are lazy

[oblique notch]

let's see if it's possible for players to become top 200 without trony

[hard sable]

Next SR before summer so idk

Or during summer?

[plucky silo]

Depends on the banner schedule

If next banner is summer, then yeah, SR hits during

If banner after next is summer, they'd have to push SR one week early to include it

[leaden latch]

regarding future SR

the next time we have a fire weak SR we will also have a new fire unit

coincidently ofc SR definately doesnt try to sell their newest units

if we look at storm bringer(last fire weak) weakest links were 2b and drake, 2b acts as psudo tank which helped, drake < trony but will have to see if needed with nikke released during that SR

[kind kettle]

also Fire Dps

[plucky silo]

The best

[kind kettle]

change this number into 50%

and you have SMG Modernia

[winter moon]

Why 50% ? Let's go with 100%

[leaden latch]

did u use her for top rank tho

[kind kettle]

100% = Alice with pierce

[leaden latch]

[kind kettle]

[leaden latch]

isnt ur base stats and gun also weaker than mod?

iirc mod has like 7.x vs 5.x of normal mg

[tidal thorn]

Pilgrim privilege

[leaden latch]

its just mod, crown didnt get that treatment

[hard sable]

Nope, modernia privilege

Rh base DMG=alice

[cyan dock]

Crown's can target invisible enemies tho

[clever lance]

and alice=undercover pilgrim

[hard sable]

And Alice magically reach 45 hits per burst

[leaden latch]

Does this mean crown can target viper and Rosanna in pvp

[hard sable]

[clever lance]

quality gaming chair

[clever lance]

we know the next sr will be ele weak

because summer banner

[hard sable]

Maybe first kraken raid?

[leaden latch]

yea but w/e its ele weak to will also be the nikkes on banner

[warm bridge]

I dropped 30 pulls on her, we save the rest for summer. Onto the wishlist she goes

[hard sable]

ok i can do 38-39 hits with alice manual

xd

[frosty smelt]

I don't care if she is utter shit

I am still getting her

[warm bridge]

foot man

[frosty smelt]

yes

[warm bridge]

Nothing wrong with it

[hard sable]

almost 40 hits

fuck 27 mins cooking 39 hits

i cant do this the whole 3 mins

so 40 hits is possible but not for 3 mins

[hard sable]

laplace who?

oh i forgot this is trony's thread

[wise edge]

So she's skip got it

[snow tapir]

@next arrow whenever you're free I sent you a dm

[hybrid flume]

I'm more curious how to make 2 units stop shooting while the rest are. Or is that just simply a visual bug for SRs on their ammo? 🤔

[snow tapir]

100% reload speed cuz of crown + priv
Instant reload, ammo never dropped

[hybrid flume]

Mmh, looking again I guess its just a visual bug coz I could see slight flashes on left

[hybrid flume]

Oh.. so it was instant reload mechanic..

So I guess the same happens for RLs too

[hybrid flume]

What is the minimum skill level needed to do this? Or it can be done at just both lvl 1 for their reload skills?

42 and 51 at max, guess reload cube is really needed even at max for 100% 🤔

[snow tapir]

110% reload speed

[hybrid flume]

Oh it needs 10% more than just 100%? Umu umu thanks for the info

Mmh, so it makes Crown and Privaty kinda inseparable with each other with that reload speed buff

[uneven oriole]

Do we think she's good

[wise edge]

No

[silver sail]

is trony good

[wise edge]

No

[rose radish]

good for headpats, not for fight

[silver sail]

someone might say he want to be the boob

[silver sail]

or feet

[modest pelican]

Got the foot girl in 7 singles. What do I do now?

[kind kettle]

put her in sync

move on

[patent fern]

[modest pelican]

Sync…for what? lol

[kind kettle]

I don't know, I put all SSR in sync

just as trophy

[modest pelican]

Oh. I have only 36 slots

[plucky silo]

Manufacturer growth score

[modest pelican]

Yeah…I’m so far behind on all of those lol

[inland delta]

Lik.

[pseudo cradle]

roll mlb, get wallpaper

[next arrow]

@snow tapir Exactly like what you asked for. Keep in mind that this is against fire weak armstrong and their investment levels are clearly not equal. Scarlet's 2ol is on her armor and boots, so she's missing a chunk of atk from helm and gloves. I'm also manualing Trony.

lb0 vs lb0
trony 3ele1ammo11%CD11%ATK vs scarlet 2ammo11%atk
5/9/9 vs 8/6/6

[winter moon]

Do you trigger Trony's S2 when playing manual?

[snow tapir]

you dont get to do 5 full charge shots

thats dps loss for sure

so just let it activate every 5 full charge shots on the fifth proc i guess

[snow tapir]

tbh, not bad

[maiden geyser]

Does this mean trony passes the scarlet test?

[hallow citrus]

no more coping

skip

[snow tapir]

but it does seem like she outdpses scar on fire weak

[proper sky]

If you have 3 ele

[snow tapir]

even if u have 1 ele

[proper sky]

[hallow citrus]

thats like saying laplace is viable on iron weak pierce bosses

[proper sky]

Ez skip

[snow tapir]

except scarlet cant pierce

so she wont be getting extra damage

[hallow citrus]

yea thats the point of what im saying

u can make a character "better" than scarlet by changing the parameters

my liter can do more than scarlet on a boss that can only be damaged by lolis

[snow tapir]

what im trying to say is that
say youre running
doro marci sanis scar priv

if u swap scar out for trony, i think trony will do more damage if theres a core

[hallow citrus]

a unit shud be generally good regardless of ele weakness of boss

those are units u shud pull

[snow tapir]

im just trying to find her use

i think on fire weak she will have use

[hallow citrus]

feet material

thats her niche

doubt she has use on fire weak

if a2 cudnt even find use there

[snow tapir]

she competes with drake, 2b and nihilister for a spot

[hallow citrus]

2b is way better than all units listed lol

[snow tapir]

yeah but drake and nihil were an either/or last time

[hallow citrus]

for ele circles

not for damage

[snow tapir]

so for now, trony makes it to the top 5 teams if ele shield

[snow tapir]

yeah obviously

[hallow citrus]

if u aint running her to do dmg u might as well use no burst drake for attack buff

[proper sky]

Maybe she will be usable on mother whale

[hallow citrus]

and burst someone useable

yeah mother whale is one small niche

fire weak mother whale

thats when trony is prob used

[proper sky]

If distributed damage can counter adds like dorothy do

[snow tapir]

except im saying that

i think she does do damage

[hallow citrus]

[mighty walrus]

she does okay damage but then you gotta consider what we currently have in the roster and it's basically big skip imo

even with fire weak I don't think she's remotely considered with current DPS units

[snow tapir]

yeah thats true but i would consider her A2 tier at least

A2 wasnt used in nihilister even

[mighty walrus]

A2 is mr beast tier idk about that

I used her

[snow tapir]

i guess they used her

[mighty walrus]

I don't remember comps anymore but I think I had her with bunnies

[snow tapir]

everyone just used emil with bunnies

and not A2

this is trash ig

[mighty walrus]

oh wait nope I don't remember comps at all I was thinking of stormbringer I think

[inland delta]

Can someone send me her wallpaper

[inland delta]

No

[inland delta]

For Prydwen guide

😦

[maiden geyser]

Sure

[inland delta]

Yall being sussu

[lunar flax]

Whales will likely use her for team 4/5 in fire weak SR

But for most players, neither worth the gems nor investment mats (skills, equipment)