#[Scarlet: Black Shadow] New Unit Megathread

1 messages · Page 16 of 1

stone isle
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he is a bit shy but he says he can

keen pebble
stone isle
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wow I did not expect you to put so much effor into thisKEKhands

jade field
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Yeah that's enough proof

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that it didnt round down to a full %

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Thank you maygipray

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@rustic rivet here you go

open sundial
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So the horror story of the game rounding down distinct OL effects before adding them up turned out to be false?

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Prepare the pitchforks

warm dune
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BALDSENIX

open sundial
rapid kettle
keen pebble
eternal aspen
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I previously stated this was incorrect, and it is as it's not correct for all cases.
However, the rounding outlined here is technically correct for specifically the case of weapons that take 1 second to charge. Any other charge time and it is not correct, and that's because 1% of 1 second is 10ms, which is the precision that charge speed buffs have.

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Alice is a 1.5 second charge, so this will not be accurate for her

rustic rivet
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And SBS is 3ms?

eternal aspen
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precision for charge speed rounding is 10 ms

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all charge speed buffs round to the nearest 10 ms

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10 ms is 1% of 1000 ms, aka 1 second, which is why just rounding to the nearest percentage point is accurate for 1 second charge weapons

rustic rivet
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Oooooo

eternal aspen
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for SBS, since her base charge speed is only 300 ms, a 10 ms precision on cs means that cs buffs only have a 3 and 1/3 percentage precision

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so you would round to the nearest multiple of 3 and 1/3

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but that's clunky to think about naturally, so it's best to just keep it to 10 ms precision and do the math manually

jade prawn
sturdy lion
quaint crest
open sundial
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The unseen blade is the deadliest

stone isle
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when the enemies don't even know they have been cutheh

minor fox
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so is this alone enough to score 18 hits during burst?

image.png
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with alice

jade prawn
open sundial
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ShiftUp apparently changed the calcuations of %s when adding max ammos in OLs. Is this conclusion for SBS frame breakpoints still accurate?

eternal aspen
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gonna need a receipt on ammo calculations changing

open sundial
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What comfort is there when almost everybody autos their BS Scarlet? Because they’re busy manualing Alice. Right?

So what are the real charge speed breakpoints? I read elsewhere here that Kira says it’s 4.5% each? As in for hits 18, 19, 20, it has to be a total of 13.5% charge speed from OLs?

jade prawn
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It's normal again

open sundial
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Normal meaning?

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The one where each ammo % is calculated and rounded separately?

jade prawn
open sundial
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I see, okay

jade prawn
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I'm not sure what Kira math is since I don't know the idea behind it is

eternal aspen
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I purposefully sacked my 3x T14 lines to verify the math used to calculate the frame breakpoints I list

jade prawn
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As I've said before, and as you can assume from altros text above

You can reach 19 shots for example at like 8% charge speed, but to guarantee that 19th shot you need more charge speed

eternal aspen
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downgraded to 1x T12, 1x T13, 1x T14, which resulted in me pushing past a frame breakpoint and charging faster than 3xT14

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the frame breakpoints I provided are accurate to the combat engine

jade prawn
open sundial
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Yeah. I asked only because I thought the logic behind summing of %s had been changed by ShiftUp

jade prawn
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SBS basically solved now thanks to altros

open sundial
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To think it was a bug they already reverted back from sadge

eternal aspen
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it was more of a collaborative effort to solve it, though I'm uncertain if the guy I worked with is in here

jade prawn
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Thanks to both of you then MaryThanks

eternal aspen
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I had actually found the rounding points a year ago, but I didn't think SU was dumb enough to have 2 stupid rounding points at the same time, so I was never able to get the math to work out

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he was the one that found out it was both kekwtf

mint ruin
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Does someone here have comparison of onslaught and bastion? For sbs?

rapid kettle
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yes

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depend on who's with her

dark hawk
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Without Alice mana, how much charge speed she needs to hit 18 times per burst?

rapid kettle
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a lot

dark hawk
open sundial
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Just wait for BS Scarlet and Alice to become Over-Spec Alice: Scarlet Samurai

halcyon silo
sturdy lion
mint ruin
eternal aspen
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This is the essentially the physical limit for SBS performance, her highest potential output is in 30 fps instead of 60 fps, 24 shots
But in practice this is currently practical as it requires Yuni over Crown/Maids, which isn't a worth it trade off (in my case I need Maxwell as well since I'm not going to level Yuni's skill, but Yuni S1 at 9 removes the need for Maxwell)

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this combination results in single-frame charging at 30 fps, it won't be single frame charging in 60 fps, but single frame in 60 fps caps out at 23 shots

vagrant delta
eternal aspen
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it doesn't specifically require optimal CS spreads to reach this but would require further compromises on the team

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it's more just a proof of what the absolute limit is, right now there's no reason to chase specifically this, we'd need another CS buffer that doesn't heavily compromise the team

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right now the absolute limit without compromising team composition is 21 shots in burst at 60 fps and 22 shots in burst at 30 fps

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but that requires manual play, auto actually does slightly worse at 20 shots in 60 fps and 21 shots in 30 fps if you force it to precharge but then auto from there

vagrant delta
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thanks for the info

hidden geode
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any cs changes due to min firing rounds?

sturdy lion
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Shift Up be like: You just did tons of complicated math? Let's make a setting to change it! poppo

eternal aspen
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have not tested for longer charge times, at the very least it has not impacted how many frames it takes my SBS to charge

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I am also not entirely convinced that the MFRA setting is working properly

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MGs at 30 fps with the setting on are shooting at around 54 rounds per second, instead of 60

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and SMGs have increased from 20 rounds per second to just under 24 rounds per second

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bullet time (the effect you get with aimable bursts) reduces the flow of time to 1/8, in bullet time at 30 fps, the effective rounds per second for MGs drops even further from 54 to 49

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but at 60 fps in bullet time, the effective rounds per second increases from 60 to 66

wooden turret
eternal aspen
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after adjusting for the slow down from bullet time, yes MGs shoot 10% more bullets in 60 fps

wooden turret
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Damn

eternal aspen
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there's no way to actually use that fact in practice

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since it's not worth it to just stay in bullet time as that implies you aren't entering full burst

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but the fact it goes to more bullets in 60 fps and less in 30 fps implies that something is not working properly

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my current suspicion is that the MFRA setting is only working on 4 out of every 5 frames

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but I haven't found a set of numbers that lines up exactly with what I see in reality so not confirmed yet

sturdy lion
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I have union mates who have had dramatic increases in damage turning that setting on, so it's definitely working somewhat delul

eternal aspen
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working 4 out of 5 frames leads to it working properly for AR and SMG at 30 fps and still results in an increase in bullets per second for MG as well

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but MGs should be shooting at 60 rounds per second with the setting on, instead they are shooting at 54, which is why we consistently see tests showing that MFRA at 30 fps still does about 10% less than native 60 fps for MG heavy comps

white python
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definitely still a vast improvement tho

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glad that I can do shit on my phone without it being an absolute brick since it cant consistently hold 60 fps

open sundial
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So I need to find again how BScarlet will proc the AoE distributed dmg

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Off highest def, off lowest def, or off closest to cursor/aim, etc

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I know that it can be taunted

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Alright, found it in pins. Thanks!

jade prawn
jade prawn
heavy iris
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Hey so, I heard SBS for a accidental buff? What is it exactly?

grim iron
jade prawn
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Is it fixed

open sundial
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Fixed, it is

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I didn’t personally confirm, but from what I saw others unreliably posted it appears the fix screwed over the agility of all the mentioned units (BScarlet, Raven, A2)

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If they’re attacking and you try to order cover, they continue the attack

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Finish, then cover

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So goodbye to snap cover if true

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Did not affect regular snipers and launchers like Alice though

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Where this matters? Well imagine if you were trying to push the limit on dps and cover at the last instant. Like vs Kraken AoE without Crown shield. Or Ultra shockwave and poison spray without Crown shield if you’ve got Raven

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Minor stuff though, just cover sooner

open sundial
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Confirmed that Raven can no longer cover immediately if she’s releasing a shot

dark hawk
wooden turret
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So they fixed it by introducing another issue lmao

halcyon silo
jade prawn
supple flame
halcyon silo
open sundial
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I don’t think it’s actually an issue, tbh

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Just a slight inconvenience that we won’t notice unless it actually killed somebody

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I didn’t feel this issue while I was playing with Raven vs Providence, but a lot of it was being healed by HelmT burst

quaint crest
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Without helm burst raven get slapped to death

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It hits like 25% hp per slap

minor fox
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just c7, sr15, level 400 recycling with level 15 tempering

split comet
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Are these breakpoints different with Liberalio's buff?

wet nexus
ionic lily
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@jade prawn would you happen to know if its plausible now to get 21 shots, and if so what the breakpoint is

jade prawn
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Or at least

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Not listed in the thread

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Even if it were it's practically impossible

ionic lily
jade prawn
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My understanding

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It is

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Actually impossible

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Altros managed to get 100% charge speed on her

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Iirc

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And she breaks

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At that point

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So she cannot get 21 shots

ionic lily
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so even with 100%?

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damn.

jade prawn
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She's bugged

ionic lily
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funny

jade prawn
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So I think you'd need to keep her lower than that

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And that's 20shots I believe

eternal aspen
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SBS's hard limit is 24 shots in burst, but there is no actually usable team that enables it at present. This requires that you reach single frame charging, which is 0.03s for 30 fps and 0.01s for 60 fps (but if you push to 0s or less charge time then she breaks and stops activating her skill procs)

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my SBS currently gets 22 shots in burst

eternal aspen
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old recording, but even with optimal 3x CS it requires 3 other CS buffers to reach the necessary breakpoint, so it's simply not a feasible team to run. It is easier to count the number of stage 3 procs, there are 8 of them so 8*3=24.

jade prawn
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Ty for sharing!

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@ionic lily

ionic lily
eternal aspen
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you only need Lib and 3x optimal CS spread

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you can get away with a suboptimal 4x CS spread but that likely locks you out of an ammo or attack line, both of which will result in a noticeable performance hit even if you place her with maids for "infinite" ammo because when Shift Up corrected the animation cancel bug they removed the ability for forced delay charging units like SBS to actually get infinite ammo

rustic rivet
eternal aspen
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one that results in an effective charge speed of 20% is the easy way to answer that

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but unfortunately, sky and I haven't found time to make the video that goes deep into how CS works so most people won't know how to calculate their effective charge speed pepekekhands

wintry wraith
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what cs % is needed for 21 shots in fb?

eternal aspen
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that depends, do you want 21 shots to be possible, or do you want 21 shots to be guaranteed?

wintry wraith
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ideally guaranteed, but if that's too expensive I'd settle with possible pepehmmm

eternal aspen
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guaranteed requires the breakpoint I specified above
possible requires optimal 2x spread of CS + any third CS line, which results in an effective CS of 16.666...%

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possible also only has a high rate of 31.03% so assuming true randomness (it's not truly random), you'd only get 21 shots about 1/3 of the time

wintry wraith
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Oof that's a lot of CS, thanks for the info thumbsupanis so the 2x optimal spread is like tier 14 and tier 15 once each?

eternal aspen
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optimal 2x spread is any 2 blue/black lines, you can't have duplicate lines except for black

wintry wraith
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Thanks! I assume it's because of some weird rounding shenanigans

wheat dome
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@eternal aspen hey i was wondering how did you get the 24 shots/10s? the best i can do on paper is 23.25 which gets rounded down to 23 BlancStare

eternal aspen
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for starters

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24 shots in burst is only possible at 30 fps

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at 60 fps, she caps at 23 shots in burst

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those upper bounds are also assuming precharging before burst

wheat dome