[Scarlet: Black Shadow] New Unit Megathread

[minor fox]

[signal flume]

so utsu was right about scarlet black shadow working in campaign and yall cooked him for nothing

[rapid kettle]

utwho

it was us Prydwen

and even momo agreed

[valid flume]

must be a masochist to force sbs on campaign

[jade prawn]

If you play at lower deficits, she becomes = redhood at some point

The point at which she 2 taps every rapture on the screen

[jade prawn]

At lower deficits shes good tho, and since n.gg don't have difference between early and hard it's fair imo

But not equal to bunnies and Alice

[rapid kettle]

or A2

[grim iron]

I wish my A2 rolls went better

had to mileage her

[rapid kettle]

as long as you have her

[valid flume]

just her performance in wall stages is not anjoyable

she can clear other stages fine, but it doesnt really say much

in the fight at 15-18

in boss fight she basically afk

and during the first burst

i have to find the right pattern

rh spam into the bus

then cursor tia at 2/6 ammo to 3 flying snipers

and hit the first elite

if i dont follow this pattern

100% someone will die

i repeat that shiet alot and its suffering

doable yes

but, there are easier options

and for sbs

interact with delay mech

she sometime trigger 9th slash

[grim iron]

yeah like og scarlet is much better there then SBS

[valid flume]

into the rapture i want to keep alive, like chill girl

[valid flume]

sbs burst to clear wave before clear boss. in some map the wage stops spawning, or the boss doesnt hurt bad, this could work, but most wall stage doesnt go soft

2nd one is sbs burst but focus on boss to rush it down, but then usually in wall stages, i believe there are lots of raptures, and they are annoying, like in this one, and sometime too much of them = useless sbs

the focusing boss is more effective and its much prefer cuz "kill before being killed"

usually carried out by

SW-Modernia (boss 100% participate in the rush)

Scarlet-Modernia (safe- strong gun)

SBS - Mod/Xlud = this combo seems cant rush , both risky and low damage

no comment on alice

||i do think alice-sbs combo could be fcking strong cuz alice buff sbs but idfk||

[rustic rivet]

Focus boss is kill before being killed

Oh I misread

[rapid kettle]

230F

practically the same

[jade prawn]

Maxwell is a support b3

Laplace as a main b3 is doing as much as her

[rapid kettle]

support B3 compared to meta dps

but having a RL feels so great against 229F

I had a stress clearing that shit

[obsidian elm]

nobody says sbs doesn't work in campaign tho

S/S+ is still good rating

[open sundial]

Accept nothing but the best

[rapid kettle]

but when Prydwen rated her that, "people are mad"

Life is tough, get a helmet then

[blissful willow]

lmao how TF is Evil Scarlet only S rank

on Prydwen

She's a late game pushing monster

[blissful willow]

that definitely does not still justify only an S rank, especially when maxwell is SS but has less overall points

[valid flume]

oh ye 100%

[blissful willow]

I'm around the same place you are in 15 hard and haven't run into anything massive

[valid flume]

but i have no idea about maxwell

15=30

[blissful willow]

She struggles when you get overwhelmed by like 500000 mobs, but the RH/SBS combo works crazy good

[valid flume]

15-18

and some sub stage should be massive

[blissful willow]

I can see SS, but S is just too low

[jade prawn]

If someone clears
15-24

with SBS

[blissful willow]

she tears through shit

[valid flume]

let me do it

[blissful willow]

I think she only has one "S" rank anyway

[valid flume]

she strong

but her limit

[jade prawn]

with lower deficit than if someone would clear it with liter centi alice max priv

[valid flume]

is crucial

in campaign

[jade prawn]

i think im hard stuck, need heavy rng

[blissful willow]

tbh late game tierlists are a meme anyway so idk why i'm bitching

Epinel was an MVP last solo raid

combined with w.mica

[jade prawn]

i hope u are

kidding

[blissful willow]

nope

[jade prawn]

[blissful willow]

I know it sounds very kinsenix

[jade prawn]

he is not kidding

[blissful willow]

but w.mica and epinel worked crazy good lmao

she has sick core damage and w.mica keeps her buff stacked

[jade prawn]

it sounds kisenix cuz its exactly what he said

[blissful willow]

hahahaha

I mean, for once he was right

it was a good cook

I came to this conclusion independently bc I don't hang out in the SR channel

[jade prawn]

man i hope you get to learn this game better soon

[blissful willow]

me too, I always enjoy learning more about the game

She did good for me though, I did pretty well

considering I'm missing key units like novel and SW

1.12% but I only played on day 1/2, liter on the wrong team, and I did the fight "honest" instead of advanced discord tech strats like skipping circles to juice more

[jade prawn]

for context for why i said this, 0 players used Epinel in world top 50

1 player used this in world top 300

idk what your definition of MVP is

but sure

[blissful willow]

She came in clutch for my team 5

she a real one

[valid flume]

the brainpower at lower collection comes clutch

[jade prawn]

I kid you not product 12 had same pickrate as epinel in world top 300

[valid flume]

getting creative

[blissful willow]

lmao that's epic

Yeah I really enjoyed playing with units that I had with extremely low investment

I mean to be fair, the world top 300 is straight up ultrawhales for the vast majority

they actually can pick product 12

then you have a few ultrasweats who play this game like a job and maybe do low-med spend

and some token F2P gods

[jade prawn]

again, that is why epinel worked for that 1

guy in world top 300

[blissful willow]

All in all, Epinel came in very handy and really pulled her weight

if I had harran I would have used her

I just needed a nice clean sweeper

[jade prawn]

again, a usable unit is not equal to meta

just cuz she can be used, doesnt mean she is the best for it

case in point: SBS in high deficit campaign

[gloomy fog]

I had product 12 in my team haha

[valid flume]

i respectfully give up @jade prawn

[valid flume]

retweet

[jade prawn]

you can rng it if u wanna sit for 4 hours with rh mod

[dark hawk]

SBS is A for me

In campaign +50% deficit

Sorry but, the fuck was all that stuff about epinel

[summer iron]

epinel with 0.3% pick rate on solo raid

[rigid gale]

Why look at the pick rate of SSR units like it matters

65% of SSRs are mislabeled SR units lmao

[valid flume]

@jade prawn if only i have 10s more

best way to cleave wave with sbs is just let the ai do it

and reduce the amount of raptures as many as possible so sbs can hit harder

[rustic rivet]

Maxwell is much better lmao

Shes just SW

But better if she can get the atk buff

SW doesnt give atk buff

So its a trade-trade

Mwdwell is more versatile

She can just stay there for the atk buff without bursting

I oneshot a boss with Tia + RH + Naga + Maxwell + Mod

Very satisfying

U need to make sure one thing tho

Maxwell must have highest ATK*

SBS gives nothing

Even Scarlet OG is better

Because she has 100% uptime on atk buff

Has constant damage

Can wipe mobs clearly

Endgame is only:
RH, Alice, Mod, OG Scar, Max, SW, and sometimes SBS against Iron (or XLud against Fire). Maybe SAnis is usable against Water.

[obsidian elm]

yeah, modernia doesn't need to burst to deal optimal dmg, all her burst does is make her bullets affect everything in the reticule, which is nice for emergency cleanup, but not necessary to use

though it ends up being used anyway if running with JKs nowadays

also, SAnis is tough

even with liter alone, unfortunately, with no other source of ammo down when she bursts, SAnis ends up with 2 ammo, even at lvl 9/10 burst skill

same can happen with noir, who gives ammo up

so if you want to use S.Anis on a water map, no liter, no bnnuy twins

on water maps where my current hard mode team struggles

i switch to Liter, Marciana, SAnis, Scarlet/RH and Privaty

and it works more often than not

[limpid ridge]

For everyone that have stronger noir than SBS

[dark hawk]

My noir sucks, so I'm fine

[rapid kettle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1108346931819851806/1194479452495814728/d0266d8683b6e2e7c8f7896cf8072c3686aff7334cfd6d1550f1661649ab3a0c-ezgif.com-speed.gif?ex=65b080ad&is=659e0bad&hm=8530e7e3bc0d259a555073ee428d6e4cd0fd8d9d6dacf556b6caaa575b605b78&

[open sundial]

Looks like Overclock can be used to separate the big tiers from the posers

[obsidian elm]

lol yeah

the changes can make it so cancer

those effects that fix burst I/II buffs to 40s and it can't be lowered by cd reduction

not sure if this applies to dorothy's last bullet cd time reduction, since it doesn't actually reduce the cd, just lower the time directly.

not willing to check it out either, gotta sleep soon

even if it did work, tho, doro at power deficits

[open sundial]

Applied to Red Hood’s cooldown reset. So most likely yes.

[obsidian elm]

oh, good catch.

[white python]

theres no cp penalty

[obsidian elm]

oh, really? that definitely explains why at 400k cp, it feels like my dmg is 'higher', well, discounting the rapture stats i gave (maxed out armor and hp parameters)

i'm at 23 ratio, knowing that, i reckon i could go higher

i'll bother another time

man, the overclock reward, already a good addition

[lethal sky]

Welcome back

[white python]

got back into nikke again for the anni

[lethal sky]

[rigid gale]

Ever think one day we'll get a genuinely good crit buffer

[jade prawn]

Like

Leona?

[rigid gale]

I was thinking of years down the line. Something amin to liter actually but just crit

Like deadass nearly guaranteed crit

With crit damage

[jade prawn]

Volume mast does that for 30s

Volume Leona is pretty good crit buffs imo

it's a huge jump in crit rate

[rigid gale]

I mean thats why i said like liter cause she does other things besides the buffs that make her good everywhere

[jade prawn]

50%+ crit rate with 50%+ crit damage

I think that's pretty good

[jade prawn]

Yeah I get you

[jade prawn]

But u didn't make that clear here

[rigid gale]

Not to mention youre talking about pairing two units together for an overall nice comp of buffs

What i meant was basically support power creep lol

An all in one for crit

For build diversity

Yeah it was vague lol. But thats basically what i meant

[gloomy fog]

I don’t have noir, so I guess I’m fine…

[jade prawn]

Hmm, maybe down the line we get someone but I don't expect anything soon

[lethal sky]

why tho why

[rigid gale]

Idk yappin

[obsidian elm]

first, make crit dmg significant in the formula

[valid flume]

yes please

[rigid gale]

naaah bro just make a crit buffer that buffs crit to a very high percentage and any crit that overcaps buffs both atk and crit damage

eeeeaaaasy dude

[obsidian elm]

[jade prawn]

Sorta like how Tia Naga buff core dmg

Core was even more diluted than crits, it's 200% alrdy

[obsidian elm]

that's true, but... at the same time, naga gives ~120% bonus core dmg when under the effect of shield (at max skill lvls, ofc), which is just ????

which amounts to more than 50% dmg increase. no crit dmg buff effectively even comes close to that, sadly.

[rapid kettle]

yep

Naga's buff is insanely impactful

[valid flume]

[open sundial]

So indecisive

But one thing I’ll say

[valid flume]

this stage changed my mind

[open sundial]

BS Scarlet should be standing above Harran

Between clearing waves and being bad at killing boss

Or being great at killing boss and being decent to good at clearing waves depending on the type of waves

The latter is clearly superior, so Harran lost to BS Scarlet

[valid flume]

no

they are at the right place

on prydwen tier according to their criteria

[open sundial]

Ah okay

[valid flume]

its just these tierlist

never explicitly states their criterias

[valid flume]

the standpoint for her to be SS here, is when the wave become mini-waves

its when drunken scarlet falls off a bit

and sbs will shine here

at this point sbs = a2+ scarlet +drake + dorothy

[rapid kettle]

Drake?

She raps?

[valid flume]

her passive nuke yes

no lmao

[rapid kettle]

Nikke in the ark smh

[valid flume]

21-14 wave

i didnt get to record the sbs

so basically the waves split into mini here

just right amount for sbs

and scarlet falls off due to lack dps and multiple elites that mod cant take care off

but subjectively, this is still a 30% decifit

Trying to focus boss (usually would do on OG scarlet), but with SBS, heavy wave = no buenoe, so trying to apply OG scarlet playstyle here not working (could play better here but iykyk )

But, im just letting AI takes over, let the team kill small raptures as many as possible => increase sbs damage as the wave subsides => working

also apply for this case, if i focused the 2 elites here as og scarlet playstyle, i would die to the small sniping raptures, so i kill off the 3 other sniping raptures (eliminate imminent threat + give better sbs distribute damage to clutch the wave in time)

[jade prawn]

I think sbs actually hit 2-3 mobs with her 50 radius here

cuz they were so close togethere

that was too fast of a mob clear for anyone

mixed with s2's actual AoE

[shy vigil]

dayumn this is bananas

on modernia

not really whale , probably the only gacha game in a while I havent spent a cent lol

[edgy hazel]

dumbass rh/sbs team against a defense battle. 40% cp deficit btw

couldn't use alice since she has 6k worse cp than rh

[rapid kettle]

that's a stall stage right?

6 bullwhip on stall phase

you can kill 2 of them at max then cover pray

[edgy hazel]

that stage is 15-12a-2. in 15-12a-1 there's a bunch of suicide bombers so sbs had some time to wipe

in 15-12a-2 i used og scarlet. she is better than sbs

[edgy hazel]

ah no. i think you mean this stage? i haven't beaten it yet. waiting till my team is tanky enough to face those nasty seahorse

[rapid kettle]

bullwhip

the ultimate nightmare

I swear normal stage they weren't that bad

[edgy hazel]

fr

[obsidian elm]

using nu scarlet vs Fingers in UR feels like cheating, lol

it never gets to eat its minions that way

actually, i don't even know what that does

[vague crown]

It gets tentacles if it eats the raptures

[open sundial]

It gains fingers per Rapture absorbed, and QTEs become more resilient to being cleared by you. Basically it’s supposed to be a losing proposition if you let it happen

[obsidian elm]

ahh, okay.

yeah, SBS made it a non-issue, because the minions die without even having to directly hit them

i know i would've been better off saving nu-scarlet for the following modernia

[open sundial]

He’s one of the easiest bosses ever, unless you’re so behind that you can’t kill it fast enough or kill the to-be-consumed Raptures

[obsidian elm]

but it was gonna be my last run of the day anyway

[open sundial]

He increases the number of Raptures each attempt

So like I think I saw 8? In the farthest I got (in other content, not UR)

[obsidian elm]

i did like 800m dmg and killed it ez

note to self, bring A2 for it next time, lol

to save SBS

[thorny mirage]

Use

She literally best unit to counter rapture spawn in Harvester and Finger

[obsidian elm]

yeah, can confirm for harvester

my typical last bullet team + scarlet did the 2nd most dmg to harvester with a lot less hassle

[rustic rivet]

Ans how nuch is most

Lol

[obsidian elm]

530m

580m was my ludmilla+ vesti team

ofc that's with liter, who i had to save for modernia today to finish UR

[valid flume]

@vestal kettle

[vestal kettle]

tks

1s left

[valid flume]

clutch

[fast yoke]

wtf scar

[tired ice]

Stupid question why are they setup like that the placement order I mean.

[jade prawn]

Whatever is comfortable for u works if you are manually bursting

[potent stag]

I assume its to spam 1-2-2 faster

[brisk whale]

so you will start with red hood

don't have to switch to spam shots for burst gauge

[tired ice]

I’m on mobile so auto

I have my team setup like this but is it the best way to have it ?

[valid flume]

I would have it like that or rh at p4

Better for auto burst fr

[minor fox]

damn bruh

🐳

[obsidian elm]

wdf

max SBS and RH

and at least MLB on the rest

[edgy hazel]

15-27 hard cleared using sbs/ludmilla. several waves of high damaging stun mobs + one shots and 2 laser elites

was a weird stage with more waves but in "lesser" density, sbs feels really good

also Snake spotted

[jade prawn]

Sbs lud??

Why??

It was so much easier with mod

And I have 4 atk on sbs

[jade prawn]

Nooo

U beat me

[edgy hazel]

slipped my brain at that moment, but true that. i just wanna try out sbs. she's so funny to use

[jade prawn]

I don't even use her

She's full auto everytime

[edgy hazel]

lol

[jade prawn]

I initially struggled a lot with clearing the mobs tbh

[vague crown]

I use her since she's my best carry unit that carried me all the way to ch 14 hard boss

[jade prawn]

Cuz my mod is ass

And my sbs wasn't killing shit

Then I just put mod and xLud together to core down those fuckers

[jade prawn]

What sync tho

Wait ch14

Ch14 is sbs heaven

Wind weak

[vague crown]

Now at lv 295

Yeah it helped a lot for me since her OL head piece has ele dmg and atk up slots

Once I beat the ch 14 boss, I'll probably then work on Xlud more

[edgy hazel]

yeah. though xlud is not really a campaign unit. you will struggle a bit more than chapter 14

[jade prawn]

Nah ch16 is real shit

I'm using sbs rn but I don't think I can anymore

Need to get on the chair soon

[edgy hazel]

oh no

that's bad news

i just beat the chapter 15 boss

[jade prawn]

Remember to cheese that dumbass base defence

And then get stuck at 16-14 or 16-18

[edgy hazel]

thanks. will cheese and get stuck again

[open sundial]

For some reason this made me think that if a commander renamed himself to Smol Wall, he wouldn’t get stuck

[edgy hazel]

im camping here till next month. these piercing mfs play so cheap, i keep getting one shotted

[rapid kettle]

Just use whitelet

[edgy hazel]

doesn't work sadly. this time the elites and the boss have to be shot down asap. drunklet does not have enough single target power

btw. if there are "few" mobs but they scatter around that mod can't cover them all fast enough, sbs is actually a good option. like this stage 16-11. 264k/438k clear, second lowest in global

[rapid kettle]

244k

Defo alice bug

It is not a legit run

Look at the scar team

[tranquil portal]

speaking like a true Alice bug abuser

[rapid kettle]

[edgy hazel]

he is not a bug abuser. that gigachad is an actual insane campaign pusher with a potentially god alice and some skills. proof for stage 16-14 as he appeared in 1-month leaderboard. he's always been gapping everyone's campaign by 20k for as long as i remember

[rapid kettle]

I see

he's just very good at aiming then

like GavinY

something I can't, never can

[edgy hazel]

absolutely

i can't either

these guys are on a league of their own

[rapid kettle]

imagine aiming fast tap those small bullwhip

that's like Shroud in CS:GO

one tap headshot

me pleb requires aim bot to do that

[crude drift]

I use Simple Burst to aim still

[edgy hazel]

i can't simple burst

feels weird and wastes time when i keep resetting in solo raid

also i've just found out this channel. he has crazy low cp clears just like that nalaniko guy but without using alice https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOXOS6GYi8NP9JX7B_Z8kNQ

[rigid gale]

we get privaty thread when skills got dropped right

[rapid kettle]

doubt

his 18-3

Tia spam RL so consistently

[potent stag]

and using salt on high deficit aint helping you either

[edgy hazel]

his aim is jittery when spamming though. the aim would have been clean if you have IT

[edgy hazel]

not that bad. my deficit is like 38-39% and she wipes not half bad. my sbs is mlb and has 1 atk line only

at least on the stages with fewer mobs but more waves

[rapid kettle]

this is another indicator

m will mess up with your hold

he still had to shoot the last squid later so it can't be stalling on purpose

[edgy hazel]

but why during the rh burst? isn't that kind of dumb?

[rapid kettle]

try to use m word

anyway

[edgy hazel]

fix that shit

no m

it was likely he couldn't see the squids when using rh burst

[rapid kettle]

he used m before the burst but if the mouse is in the state "mouse button down" then game is still treating it as you are pressing mouse

then you click yourself

it messes with the input

I experience this a lot with my gaming chair

[edgy hazel]

lmao

[rapid kettle]

but it also comes in handy that you don't even need to press mouse if you time it well

game now thinks you are pressing mouse

so you can let your finger rest a bit

[edgy hazel]

hmm

[edgy hazel]

@rapid kettle i rechecked other stages to see how he spammed shots. looks fine to me

if anything i recognised that he has great control on tia and even count the taunt duration on tia because he can. check 17-33. this guy is a bit

beast

[jade prawn]

Yes

[rapid kettle]

sr for the late reply. Hm I watched a bunch videos, seem like Macro for me. Or may be he's just very good at tapping

[edgy hazel]

tbh i don't care about m or not man. this topic is a pain

i could never go higher than 39-40% cp deficit like this guy anyway

[warm dune]

how was this tested

are there further decimal points

[jade prawn]

Gatrix made a charge speed to shots formula

Ask him

@rapid kettle

[warm dune]

planning next wind weak SR get to work

[open sundial]

Time to bust out that massive Epinel we’ve been secretly building up

[tranquil portal]

ScarletBS can just One burst Over the SI Modernia

[silk solstice]

This guy predicts future

[civic verge]

Trony?

[jade prawn]

Crown

[civic verge]

Oh

[steel abyss]

Hi guys, what overload should i get for black shadow?

I got atk%, whats for the other 2?

[steel abyss]

Element and atk only? Oh its possible to get same effect on 1 gear?

[grim iron]

no only 1 per OL gear

[steel abyss]

Im f2p, element seems overkill no?
It wont have effect on the element weakness

[grim iron]

so maximum of 4x of a stat if you fully OL

[steel abyss]

Like charge/ammo seems more universal

[grim iron]

you legit don't need more than 1x ammo or even 2x if you decide to run her outside of bunny duos

she'll never run out of ammo

what's 4x max ammo gonna do for her?

again go look at pins

it already has all the breakdowns

[steel abyss]

4 ele, 4 atk? How to understand this lol

So each gear, have atk and element(body, head, arm, legs) ?

[grim iron]

yes

[steel abyss]

The other stats is whatever?

[grim iron]

again read the pin it fully says how much charge speed is required

[steel abyss]

Cos 1 gear can have 3 effects right

[grim iron]

and 1x max ammo being the minimum

[grim iron]

yes

[steel abyss]

OL gear:
Must need
4 ele
4 atk
Total 4.59% value of charge speed gives 1 more ammo during burst
1 ammo

If u get more CS rolls, a total of ~13% will give 1 more ammo during burst.

Charge speed 13% total, and 1 ammo?
I get that 2 effect, or choose?

[warm dune]

u want 4x ele, 4x att, 3x c. speed, 1x max ammo

where max ammo is 40.17%+

and c. speed totals are the breakpoints on prydwen

[grim iron]

what austin said basically

the goal is pretty much to have a minimum of 4.9 CS to get the 18 shots fired (with Alice's S1 level 10) and that's also why 1x max ammo is required along with S2 level 7 on SBS

you can get more charge speed as the breakdowns are also pinned for more shots to be squeezed in during full burst

but not as mandatory since the goal is 18 shots to go through 6 full rotations of SBS's S1 procs

[open sundial]

If you still feel overwhelmed, this is all optimizations… even if you somehow got 4 ammo, 4 atk, 4 ele, it’s still a strong SBS

Austin going to kidnap you for secrets if you come back with 116% elemental damage though

[warm dune]

realisticlaly the only mandatory is 1x max ammo

everything else is just a dps increase

1x max ammo just need to have or else u get comp limitations

[steel abyss]

I see thanks, i understand now

[steel abyss]

Ah okay

[steel abyss]

If i OL, element
Does it mean the effect only took place when i fight with elemental weakness?
If not weakness is it reduce or none at all?

[warm dune]

if enemy has no elemental weakness to that unit that unit's ele % lines do nothing

[steel abyss]

I see, got it

[open sundial]

Elemental Damage is both the strongest and the weakest OL effect at the same time.

Strongest because it usually just outright increases your damage by this much when this unit attacks enemies of the counter element. Fire Nikke > Wind enemies while having 100% elemental damage? Does double damage (to be exact, 110% more damage)

But any other element enemies, this effect doesn’t activate

However, usually, if the character is inherently strong, they’re still good at fighting the non-counter-element enemies

My Winter Ludmilla has no ATK effects, just max ammo and elemental damage

Not because I wanted it that way, it’s just my damned luck

69% elemental damage…

She still slaughters Tetra tower

In SBS’s case, it’s Iron enemies she’s strong against (Wind > Iron)

[steel abyss]

Double dmg huh, wow better than atk dmg then

[open sundial]

You can get up to around max 29% elemental damage on very good rolls for it

It’s max 14% atk on the other hand

And atk bumps aren’t quite the same as just multiplying damage, but they interact… if you had +100% more atk, then +100% more elemental damage, then attacked an element weak foe… hehehehehehehe

[vague crown]

Same. My Xlud only has 3 max ammo, 2 crit rate and 1 crit dmg, and only 1 atk up slot

[steel abyss]

I can see the ultimate late game OL should be elemental then, higher % and doubles
But like u said, early game might suffer a bit? Like for first unit OL

[vague crown]

Big copium moment

[open sundial]

Yep, if you don’t care about element counter play, and you won’t need to for like 24 chapters

As in chapters 1 to chapter 24 of the game

Though there’s still Solo Raid

After around chapter 26

There are some annoying enemies immune to wrong elements, and they suicide bomb you

[warm dune]

you should always be playing for ele lines on DPS units

[open sundial]

And some bosses are particularly hard, like Ultra, but Red Hood eats it

[warm dune]

eventually u will beat campaign by just waiting for core dust

[steel abyss]

I see, thank you all for the help 🙏

[jade prawn]

https://vxtwitter.com/sei_melt/status/1853641146951778572?s=46&t=Dv-Fvp3UDPDfdZXmYB-LWA

Can someone tell what he's saying

[grim iron]

Is there a difference in attack speed depending on the costume? In the end, I don't really understand ( ¨̮ )

It was a little slow on my smartphone and I couldn't really tell, but it was clear on my PC. It was the same. Maybe it's easier or harder to do it manually, but it's basically automatic so I don't know (´・ω・)

[rapid kettle]

the hip shaking on skin is wider than original?

[jade prawn]

It seems the skin is faster?

[grim iron]

the first post is smartphone

their 2nd post/reply is on pc

it's the same there but she be swinging those hips more

[jade prawn]

He's saying that on pc the difference is a bit clearer

In that the skin Is faster

[grim iron]

no it's the same in this one

https://x.com/sei_melt/status/1853743755712725287

sei(・ω・) 機械音痴 (@sei_melt) on X

スマホだと若干重かったりでよくわからんかったけど、PCならはっきりわかる。同じだった。　手動でやりやすいやりにくいってのはあるのかもだけど基本オートだからわからん(´・ω・)

Twitter · Nov 5, 2024, 10:18 AM

[rapid kettle]

oh it's seems 0.5 hit faster toward the end

on phone

probably fps issue

[grim iron]

pretty sure it's FPS yeah

[minor fox]

skin has higher fps?

p2w

[wooden turret]

https://arca.live/b/nikketgv/120237146

KR bros cooking new scarlet analysis on arca

[grim iron]

[open sundial]

Can someone confirm if this is accurate?

Distributed damage AoE will split target's dmg suffered to others onscreen and also ignore hit count mechanics.

Stuff that would take only 1 dmg will take full distributed damage portion instead. So if 3 targets, and distributing 9k dmg to them, even if they're hit count targets, they all take 3k dmg.

The problem is if she hit something for 1 dmg, it'll instead distribute 1 dmg to the 3 targets.

Accurate?

[sturdy lion]

That's how it works from my understanding, at least

[rustic rivet]

No.

Iirc it depends on the target with the HIGHEST DEF.

I dont remember

Wait

The highest DEF among all mobs included in that distributed damage

If a unit has Maximum DEF

(not hitcount)

Everyone takes 1 damage

If a unit has hitcount shield

I honestly have never tried

Maybe @rapid kettle knows

[sturdy lion]

vs Material H, Dorothy couldn't hit mobs because boss shield required element. Even tho mobs were vulnerable, boss invuln protected them from distributed damage

Meanwhile, SBS made quick work of them

Meanwhile, Dorothy is able to wipe mobs vs Mother Whale despite core-buffed mob defence due to Mother Whale taking damage (assuming shield is disabled)

[rapid kettle]

pretty complicated

sometimes Doro ignores Glass shield and deals dmg

sometimes she doesn't

[open sundial]

Time to factor butterfly wing flaps into Nikke dps calculations

You can do it!

[rapid kettle]

I will look into this if I meet a Glass stage again

hey wait

may be I can deal damage to MC using Dorothy

[ebon jolt]

is she a must pull

[rapid kettle]

no mate

you won't pull her

[hybrid dome]

I guess this one line charge speed enough for her? 11% not really necessary, right?

[grim iron]

yes

[sturdy lion]

11% is just if you want to perfect SBS

Generally not worthwhile to push that far

[jade prawn]

18% or nothing

[hybrid dome]

That charge speed thing i assume when paired with Alice, right?

[sturdy lion]

Yup. It's very rare that SBS will not be paired with Alice (the only time that usually happens is fire-weak raids)

[hybrid dome]

Born together as Meta

[daring sierra]

Black Shadow can't dealing when Glasses on field
Rapture HP decreased 0 or 1.

what is the 'standard' for 'distributed damage'?
who's there know Black Shadow Skill 1 mechanism?

I curious.
3 times single target attack. The target is lowest DEF (explained from part of [Skill 1 - 3 times attacked.])
6 times area attack near lowest DEF enemy (not explained. Just I guess.)
9 times area attack all enemy (explained from part of [Skill 1 - 9 times attacked.])

if As explained above.
Skill 1 attack lowest DEF enemy when I attacked 3 times.
(This attack not distributed damage.)
Skill 1 attack near lowest DEF enemies when I attacked 6 times.
(imo, This attack distributed damage from lowest DEF enemy)
(ps:I confirmed attacked near same target from union shooting range.)
Skill 1 attack all enemies when I attacked 9 times.
(This attack have problem, Why do not distribute from I attacked enemy?)

is It just unkinded explain?

imo, If all distributed damage from lowest DEF enemy, should explain which enemy the distributed damage is calculated based.

It causes confusion.
For example, I thought 6 times should be calculated based on the lowest DEF enemy and 9 times would be calculated based on the target that was directly attacked.

(This screenshot is not mine. I cleared this stage a long time ago. lol)

[jade prawn]

Explanation is simple

Glasses has the lowest DEF out of any mob on screen

the Glasses shield has self damage reduction, not self DEF buff

hence, it can neutralise SBS

[daring sierra]

nah, I know that.
I mean, 9 times attack causes confusion.

[sturdy lion]

The lowest DEF unit has no relevance to the ninth hit

[open sundial]

I think he’s talking about what unit is used as the standard when calculating the distributed damage’s total amount prior to actually redistributing it

Like if it used an invincible unit, and it took 0 damage, then it’s 0 dmg redistributed to every target for 9nth hit

But what is it that decides that part, why not the other non-invincible units?

Perhaps he’s thinking it’s always using the lowest DEF unit on all procs

For example, all enemies in range? The lowest DEF among them is used as the standard

All enemies on screen? Then the lowest DEF one as well

[sturdy lion]

Which it doesn't

If any unit has a special damage reduction/immunity, the distributed damage is inhibited by it

Glasses reduces the hit to 1 damage

Not just the part that's supposed to hit it, but the entire pool of damage

[supple flame]

Any unit on the entire screen?

[daring sierra]

Yes, maybe, 9 times standard from lowest DEF enemy.
I mean. that's weird or unkind explain.

[open sundial]

So if 1 unit out of affected 10 has reduce dmg to 1, the distributed damage proc will be 1 for all 10?

And there’s no way to hope for it to be not the case, even if the unit transferred the dmg reduction to another random unit hit by the AoE, it’ll still happen and be always 1 dmg to all 10?

Hmm in PvP does that mean even if position 5 was the only one with 90% dmg reduction and BS scarlet was beating up position 1, the distributed AOEs will be only 10% dmg on entire enemy team?

[sturdy lion]

That's how I understand it to work, at least

Also, once again, lowest DEF enemy only applies to the third hit

It's irrelevant for ninth hit

[rustic rivet]

Distributed damage (6th and 9th hits) always use the DEF of the mob/Nikke with the highest DEF in the pool of units attacked.

If you try this on Mother Whale you will know.

Mother Whale gains DEF for every mob alive.

[daring sierra]

Gain DEF?
isn't ATK?

[rustic rivet]

Both, I think.

[open sundial]

The truth is vicious

[daring sierra]

Then, is lowest DEF enemy Glasses on this case?

[rustic rivet]

Glasses is special.

They just take 1 damage no matter what.

They have Damage Taken down (older glasses) and absolute 1 damage taken only (newer glasses).

I still dk about the Ch33-34 volleyballs didnt pay enough attention.

For example, if the Mother Whale shield is broken (by clearing all mobs ASAP before the next wave spawns), Dorothy can kill all mobs because Dorothy uses the boss's DEF, which is the highest due to self buff, to deal damage to all mobs. Meanwhile, if the Mother Whale shield is up, which means zero damage taken, then Dorothy cannot kill any mobs.

Theoretically SBS 9th slash should be able to kill them all too but I havent tested that.

Remember its the highest DEF among the units calculated inside the pool (targets inflicted).

I havent tested this in arena too sadly since no one uses 2B anymore here and most people do taunt + biscuit. Taunt doesnt absorb all distributed damage but rather changes the highest DEF target to the taunter's DEF.

[supple flame]

SBS + Alice: If SBS has 133% max ammo, does she still need bastion?

[minor fox]

might as well, she'd never have to reload

resil probably means she'd have to reload some time

[supple flame]

7 ammo after starting at 26

[minor fox]

with resil?

yea you good with resil i guess. should be bursting real soon

[eternal aspen]

SBS's distributed damage has target selection
Once it has picked a target to use for damage evaluation, it will not change until that target dies or SBS gets taunted (this is why Noah can taunt and sack her damage in PvP with Biscuit)
When a new target needs to be selected, it works like this:
If there are multiple enemies alive, choose the enemy with the lowest DEF as the target
If there are no enemies alive, the first enemy that spawns will be designated as the target

Glasses is often the first in a wave to spawn, this tends to lead to it being chosen as the target, but this is not always the case
Glasses also has less DEF than normal mobs, leading to the target often shifting to it when the current target dies

[jade prawn]

Just to confirm there's no typo

Highest HP, not Highest Def?

[eternal aspen]

should be HP unless it changed from my initial tests back when SBS first released
Found to be incorrect, it is lowest DEF

[jade prawn]

I never tested this tbh, so thank you.

I assumed the targeting would be based on the lowest DEF since that's the only targeting mentioned in S1
Regardless, what you said should definitely be true, I've felt this target lock happen in campaign stages a lot, and got especially confused once when I checked nikke.gg to compare Def values on a stage and found out glasses is not the lowest DEF. When they didn't match up I just didn't probe further cuz couldn't be bothered

[daring sierra]

Oh,

[daring sierra]

You mean, S1 6, 9 times is standard to enemy the highest HP?
and glasses have a barrier and cannot be damaged.
cause glasses highest HP in almost situations,
then, S1 6 times, 9 times distributed standard to glasses.
That's reason cannot damage the enemy.

Did I understand correctly?

And the highest HP target do not change if target was not died or taunted.

[eternal aspen]

Yes, if Glasses is on the field, it will tend to be picked as a target due to having the most HP
Alternatively, if there are no enemies on the field, Glasses tends to be the first to spawn in the next wave, which also makes it the target

And yes, until Glasses dies, the target on it won't change

and since SBS can't do more than 1 damage to it, no damage gets distributed while its shield is still up

[daring sierra]

Thx :)

[eternal aspen]

this target selection behavior is actually same as skill (her burst is manually targetted, obviously)

they likely just recycled the code from her skill for it

[daring sierra]

I understand completely.

[jade prawn]

Dyk if we can delay the target from being glasses if we do not shoot until more enemies spawn

[eternal aspen]

you cannot

[jade prawn]

Damn

[eternal aspen]

once the target is chosen

[daring sierra]

if I use Doro burst on void,

The target is randomly?

[eternal aspen]

the target either has to die, or SBS has to get taunted

[eternal aspen]

it will just miss, and you don't get her burst's brand damage

[eternal aspen]

oh, I see, you mean by not procing

[jade prawn]

No like
Assuming we finished a wave

Next wave first drop is glasses, but we had covered all units before glasses came, and waited for more units to drop (such as the stage boss)

Can we finesse the targetting on the stage boss that way?

[eternal aspen]

no, the targeting is set regardless of whether she is actively shooting

[daring sierra]

You mean, can not stack damage?

[jade prawn]

Damn

[eternal aspen]

yea, her brand will miss, so you can't accumulate damage on it to distribute

[daring sierra]

oh shit

[halcyon silo]

unless pve is different from pvp iirc pvp concluded it was lowest defense

#1177116972593463316 message
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1177116972593463316/1195463778687533146/Unknown_2024.01.12-19.55.mp4?ex=677a4227&is=6778f0a7&hm=208e15fc3e1eaca8525b0ddd82d04130ccd418144a80896b4b3e0976a1562fcc&
#1177116972593463316 message
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1177116972593463316/1194734403893600347/Unknown_2024.01.10-20.02.mp4?ex=677a3dde&is=6778ec5e&hm=9d26646527358ee9e74dd479f563a8d2304de0966a4266b352393aa3549f1761&
#1177116972593463316 message
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1177116972593463316/1195463778687533146/Unknown_2024.01.12-19.55.mp4?ex=677a4227&is=6778f0a7&hm=208e15fc3e1eaca8525b0ddd82d04130ccd418144a80896b4b3e0976a1562fcc&

[halcyon silo]

so the alternative might be true

video 1, sakura targeted p2 all hits, video 2 sakura targets p5 all hits, video 3 folkwang lowest defense targeted all 3 hits

[warm dune]

how exact is this

what if i get 19.97% charge speed

[jade prawn]

You shoot a tad bit faster, over 3 minutes maybe a few extra ammo but during the 10s FB maybe not

The more cs you have the more consistently you shoot 20 hits during FB, otherwise if you're slightly lower you sometimes hit sometimes don't

Iirc this value was very consistent hits, near this CS should still sometimes hit 20 hits

[white python]

to get 20% cs you’d need 4 cs rolls which is

you’d be sacrificing a max ammo roll for that

[eternal aspen]

in this first video, it looks like folkwang is the one getting selected as the one to check distributed damage against, otherwise the opponent's SBS wouldn't have stopped doing damage with her AoEs while Folkwang was invul from Biscuit

a defender definitely wouldn't have had the least defense in that team
actually, given that her first stage effect is procing on folkwang, apparently she does have the lowest def in that team

PvP is also known to have odd behaviors, especially a year ago

it's also entirely possible that my testing is dated as well; when I did testing on how charging works frame-by-frame a year ago, the amount of charge damage you got was based on the square of your charging percentage

so if you were 50% charged, you only got 25% of your charge damage

apparently that was changed at some point in the last year without the devs saying anything, it's linear now

[eternal aspen]

these numbers do not match my emperical testing

I have 3x 5.8% CS lines on my SBS, I am able to get 20 shots in burst

18 shots in burst is also possible with 0 CS lines

the issue is that the amount of shots you get in burst for a given amount of CS is actually a spread for most values

because you have to account for that fact that SBS effectively loses time if she happens to shoot right before full burst as she's going into burst at the very start of her forced delay

meanwhile, if you shoot the frame after you enter burst, you effectively skipped her forced delay and charge time for a shot

[eternal aspen]

Looping back on the targeting for her skill checks though, I don't think it can be the case that it goes by lowest defense in PvE
it looks like glasses will have the same base stats as any other enemy, which is generally consistent with how enemy stats are, usually only bosses will have different stats from the non-boss enemies
if it was going by lowest defense in PvE, we'd either see random or sequential (by spawn order) targeting, but we see that it will consistently end up on Glasses once the targetting changes, if it wasn't already on Glasses

The only thing that sets Glasses apart from the other trash enemies is that it generally won't be taking any damage at all until it's barrier is destroyed, which I believe is what lead me to my conclusion of the targetting being based on highest HP at the time of target selection

although...the HP should be different between trash mobs and elite mobs, the elites definitely have more HP

I'll have to confirm in a live test if Glasses really does have the same defense as the trash mobs, I know that when I did tests just to confirm my damage calculator was correct that I found elites and minions had the same DEF

but perhaps Glasses is unique, don't have time to test that today, will have to be tomorrow evening

[warm dune]

hmm i calculated it and it seems like 18.3167% charge speed is enough for 20

but yeah ur 17.4 prob is enough if u enter burst as b. scar is mid charge

im trying to find if its possible to get a guaranteed 20 shots in a burst with 3 charge speeds

but 3 black lines is only 18.27%

[rapid kettle]

throw charge speed cube in

[daring sierra]

If SBS have 4 MAX Charge Spd, has she can attack 21 times? (include alice 2 charge spd over 8%)

[rustic rivet]

Alice chg spd doesnt affect her buff

[daring sierra]

carrot provide a recharge speed buff based on the caster.

am I understand something wrong?

[sturdy lion]

Calculations about the extra ammo for SBS always assume Alice is present, and Alice is always assumed to have the 7.xx% CS

Without Alice, SBS can't reach 20 shots

19 → 20 shots requires going from 11% to 20% CS, and 4 max CS rolls on SBS only yieds 24%, which shouldn't be enough for a 21st shot

[sturdy lion]

Alice is the caster, so you'd be wanting to try to get her to 4x max charge speed if you're trying to augment that part of the buff

Although you'd be bricking your Alice doing so

[dark hawk]

sadly SU forgot to make SBS dedicated team

Like how Cindy has the strongest comp by far

In her element

SBS best buffer is Alice... Who is fire unit

[minor fox]

himeno is wind sniper that buffs something charge related (i forgor what it is)

[open sundial]

They didn't forget

Always remember that ShiftUp's primary goal isn't to give us a fair game to play

So they literally could care less about broken (failed) or incomplete team comps

Now, maybe EVA collab will finally deliver a full team of wind characters for BS Scarlet to hustle with hehe. But when

[dark hawk]

[warm dune]

its base charge speed

[warm dune]

no

if it took into account OL rolls, it woudl say caster's final

[open sundial]

And if it was actually Final despite the text, I think the recommendations for OLs would change to x4 charge speed on Alice

[warm dune]

also, if by happen chance it was bugged, ppl wud take advantage of it already since should be able to get 0 charge speed b scar then

[warm dune]

yes

11.67% c speed on alice already reduces bscar charge speed by 24%

[sturdy lion]

Oh derp, yeah

[open sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/mcqueen-gif-25874245

[halcyon silo]

maybe theres a sub condition when the defenses are equal to check hp? can probably devise a test in shooting range with forcing a respawn since we can force a kill on 1 target

maybe able to check with mast defense shred as well? (kill picked target after mast shreds defense of another to force retarget then xlud to damage taken up to see if damage boosted)

[daring sierra]

ah, I misunderstand.
that's like caster's ATK. right?

[eternal aspen]

nope, looks like the datamined values are not correct, both are full charged shots from an unbuffed Alice on the same stage, one against an elite Glasses, the other against a normal mob
In that case I agree with the conclusion that for target selection, when multiple enemies are on the field, it goes by lowest DEF

was also hard to find somewhere to live test because I've cleared HM

[halcyon silo]

that is correct, alice's overloads dont affect her s1, its based on the difference in weapon charge time which gives more to SBS

[onyx orchid]

Is it okay that I remove CS line here and replace it with atk. I am currently having 25.7% atk and no other CS line

Don’t ask me why I perma locked on that

[jade prawn]

Lock ele, reroll until like 2 atk/cs

And then fish line 1

ATK is better

[onyx orchid]

Or should I double lock, is it too much

[jade prawn]

Umm
Oh yeah, am I retarded

Lock cs lock ele and fish for atk line 1

[onyx orchid]

Dw, thank you

[open sundial]

On the topic of weird interactions, anyone know if shotgun pellets count as individual hits when striking a hit count shield/enemy?

Nvm, figured it out. Glass Slippers take only one pellet and become immune to the other pellets. Logic follows that the game treats 1 pellet as 1 hit, though it will treat the shooter as having fired only one shot despite multiple pellets in it.

[sturdy lion]

Yup

That's also why Leona's pellet increase doesn't change damage

Damage calculated as one shot then divided by number of pellets, not pellet damage * number of pellets

[wet nexus]

In Sky's sheet it shows this. Which number is the right? Or am I misunderstanding something?

[grim iron]

they're all rough estimates

the reason the numbers varies so much is due to FPS, what % SBS is at when you enter full burst, etc

[wet nexus]

Thanks for the explanation.

[jade prawn]

We have it more correct i believe

[jade prawn]

Hmm oh wait, in theory he is right cuz you may enter full burst with sbs already almost finishing her shot

Allowing for an extra shot

[jade prawn]

Yeah, both are correct, sky gives a range and a final proper value for a guaranteed 19/20/21 shot

Gatrix suggestions are more practical since he tested and recorded them ingame in some way like using yuni or some shit in shooting range

Gatrix calculated like the value where for example math gives the answer 19, and suggested a final value which is a bit higher than that value since he found out otherwise when the 19 shots do hit, the 19th shot does not get the benefits of other full burst buffs and such

[wet nexus]

I'll try getting 20 ammo, then stack cs as much as possible then. Since I think more than that is almost impossible.

[eternal aspen]

Sky's sheet is using my older numbers from paper math, from empirical testing it has been found that the actual breakpoints occur slightly earlier

but how to accurately determine the number of frames it takes to charge a shot given an arbitrary charge time and charge speed continues to elude me, so we don't have more accurately calculated numbers to update them with

[eternal aspen]

From my empirical tests, I've found that 20 shots is possible at 16.23%, which is noticably lower than what my paper math would predict as the breakpoint that becomes possible at

[stone isle]

the % you guys are talking about are ol % + alice right?

[eternal aspen]

The percentages listed in Sky's sheets are the sum of all CS buffs, including OL%, except for Alice's buff

since Alice's buff works out to something like 58.35% CS for SBS

[stone isle]

what buffs other then ol and alice are there?

[eternal aspen]

it's just meant to be a sum, in case someone decided to run maxwell or some other buffer to reach a breakpoint

as an example, 32.99% CS is not achievable with OL lines alone

[sturdy lion]

Mana

[stone isle]

btw, what cube do you guys run? bastion?

[minor fox]

bastion is more reliable yes

but if you run a team like last raid with privaty+crown, resil

[deep musk]

onslaught

[stone isle]

I need to fix her eventually but I just spent 81 rocks to get first line atk on rapi

[wet nexus]

I'll use this then, since I already have 1 black CS. Adding 2 more CS still achievable. Thanks.

[eternal aspen]

not that when I say "possible", I mean you have to force it as it'll basically never happen in auto

you have to be fully charged going into burst and release the frame after bursting

[wet nexus]

Yeah I mean once in occasions maybe i get 20, but 19 already enough for me.

[rustic rivet]

Kira says it's around 4.5 and 13% so

Or Im having memory issues

Maybe it's 11%

[tranquil portal]

this nikke can't stop winning

might be the most important nikke to have on your acc considering she is the carry in your rock farming team

[sturdy lion]

They're getting ready for that popularity poll skin for 3rd anni

[tranquil portal]

lets vote normal scarlet again

[sturdy lion]

unless Cindy steals it

since Scarlet splits the vote

[rustic rivet]

btw we know charge speed OL is rounded

4.51% as long as u dont have another 4.51% gets you 5%

so yeah 4.49% is 4%

same value = add together then round

alone = round immediately

[stone isle]

so if you have 3 different % it rounds them individually before adding them up?

[rustic rivet]

yes sir

[stone isle]

[open sundial]

So four OLs with 2.2% x4 is 8.8% then rounded to 9%?

Oh. Same value. It has to be the exact same number?

2.3%, 2.2%, 2.1%, 2.0% would be sum of 8.6% and normally should be 9% after rounding, but because the % values weren’t the same, they all round first? Which makes it 2% x4 = 8%? What the hell?

[stone isle]

yeah that seems correct

[supple flame]

Does this mean Alice needs two lines of at least 3.75% each?!

[eternal aspen]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zRvMDp1XJrYJo9k037roETKajO1uqZCsO5Bn50WU264/edit?usp=sharing

full disclosure that I have worked with someone else extensively on this for close to a month now

and we still aren't 100% certain it is perfect

but it is the closest we have gotten to accurately predicting how many frames it takes to fully charge given an arbitrary charge speed and charge time

It's currently set based on SBS's parameters

[eternal aspen]

Rounding like this does not align with empirical testing done on Alice
An Alice with level 10 burst and S1 will charge in 1 frame if they have specifically 3.16% and 3.75% CS (adds to 6.91%) from OLs, but not if they have 4.63% and 2.28% (also adds to 6.91%), your rounding would put the sum of both of these buffs at the same amount of charge time reduction, 105 ms (60+45 and 75+30 respectively), which would not explain this behavior.

as best as we can tell, OL buffs of the same tier are added together, as we'd expected going by how max ammo OL lines work

each separate buff is then calculated based on the charge time and rounded to the second decimal point (to the nearest 10ms) before then adding everything together for the final charge time reduction from all buffs

[supple flame]

Why did SU make this so convoluted?

[halcyon silo]

there should be 2 rounds tbh one for the charge speed and another for the next available frame to spawn a projectile/charge tick

[sturdy lion]

Probably by accident

[jade field]

This is probably not true

Can be confirmed if someone have 3.45% + 4.33% lines

That'll round down to 7% and Alice lose instant charge if its true

[jade field]

Or any combination that round to 3+4 but more than 7.2% total

[warm dune]

is baldsenix spreading fake news

@rustic rivet

answer for ur crimes

[rustic rivet]

Someone said it rounds to 0.1%

Another one said it rounds to 1%

Both sides have tests

Im only relaying what ppl say ok

[warm dune]

spreader of fake news

[jade field]

you're relaying fake news

round to 1% will obviously cause error and ppl reporting it everywhere by now

[jade prawn]

I think, or like semi sure the rounding happens after lol, not in the percentage

So like if it's 4.49% charge speed of .3 second charge time
.0135s

Maybe rounds off to .014

@halcyon silo did you share the RedHood tests here

We got it within roundoff range

That time at least

[rustic rivet]

Yeah maybe not the percentage but the numeric

[warm dune]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

actually baldsenix

[jade field]

this is agreeable at least

[jade prawn]

I don't wanna spout bs tho I'm not sure

I remember me and Kos talking about it a long time ago, like around December 23

[halcyon silo]

I don't think they're here, on phone ATM so lazy to look

I think u can prob find it in the other chat still

[halcyon silo]

Charge speed calculating
alice conversion as a ratio: 1.5/1 * 11.67 = 17.505% rh charge speed equiv
38.1(s1 round down) + 0.8(burst extra round up) + 3.16%(overload round down) + 17.505 (alice round up)
38+1+3+18
=60%

Charge damage conversion
60%*2.4(s1 conversion to CD) + 7%(alice) + 9.7%(ol) = 160.7% +250%(base wep) = 410.7% total charge damage

Atk and wep conversion
79617*171.42% = (136479.4614-100def)*51.46% =70180.870843644


Total
70180.87084*1.5(full burst)*410.7%(charge damage)=432349.25480982 
1 dmg difference off likely due to round down during atk rounding(136579.4614 round down)```

when using rh s1 conversion to see charge speed as an actual number

[halcyon silo]

charge speed is generally pretty mysterious to the general community tbh, esp with the ammount of "98,99% cs alice is enough" could have actually been reports

[eternal aspen]

the more I delve into this mystery, the more I question what the devs at SU were smoking

working with someone else, we've worked out how it works with complete accuracy at a stable 60 fps

and it's stupid

[eternal aspen]

SBS frame break points at stable 60 fps are as follows:

All are with Alice or Mana buff at max level

8 frames (18 shots possible):
  no CS
7 frames:
  1x T1~11
6 frames (18 shots guaranteed, 19 shots possible):
  1x T12+
  OR
  2x DISTINCT T1~2
  OR
  2x T3~11
5 frames (19 shots guaranteed):
  2x DISTINCT T12~14
  OR
  2x T15
  OR
  3x DUPLICATE T8+
  OR
  1x T12+ AND [2x DISTINCT T1~2 OR 2x T3~8]
  OR
  2x DUPLICATE T9~T11 AND [1x T1~8 OR 1x T12+]
4 frames (20 shots possible):
  3x DISTINCT T12~15
  OR
  2x T15 AND 1x T12~14

20 shots in burst only becomes possible in the case of 4 frame charging

[minor fox]

https://tenor.com/view/what-do-they-mean-random-numbers-gif-10654449

[open sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/doug-maclean-nhl-hockey-stats-statistics-gif-13408391465163304912

[warm dune]

Please simplify

[minor fox]

at stable 60 fps with mana/alice support, you need 3x distinct T12-T15 cs lines or 2x T15 + 1x T12-14 to do 20 shots

distinct i assume needs to be all different and not just 3x t12 (t12,13,14)

[minor fox]

which frames for 18 shots?

[rustic rivet]

1 cs

Just trust Kira

4.5% per 0.5 full burst shots

Thats the simplification

You start at round 17.5

[eternal aspen]

6 frames for minimum 18 shots in burst

18 shots in burst is possible with 0 CS

[minor fox]

i’m confused how 2x distinct t1-2 matches with 2x t3-11

[eternal aspen]

because these devs are stupid with how they round things

[minor fox]

integers, how do they work

[eternal aspen]

it works like max ammo does

if the lines are of the same tier, then their values are added before rounding

[minor fox]

what’s rounded is the frame per shot right, not the cs

[eternal aspen]

the charge time reduction from CS buffs is what's rounded

this table has the breakpoints

it rounds to 2 decimal places, meaning CS buffs only have 10ms precision

[minor fox]

then what would happen if sbs finishes charging at a time that is not synced to a frame

[eternal aspen]

but if you have 2 OL lines of the same tier, say T1, then they sum before rounding

so T1 by itself is -0.01s charge time

but 2xT1 is 0.00594+0.00594 = 0.01188, which still gets rounded to 0.01s reduction

[minor fox]

cs buffs have 10 ms precision, but 60 fps is 16 ms. there’s still some gap in here.

[eternal aspen]

oh boy, I wish it was

the devs round the time between frames to the nearest millisecond

so the game believes that 17ms have passed each frame

which is why you don't actually get 600 frames (10 seconds) of full burst time at 60 fps

you only get 589 frames of full burst time at 60 fps, which is roughly 9.817 seconds

[minor fox]

we’ve been robbed

of 11 frames!

all this time

over 3 minutes that’s 198 frames!

[eternal aspen]

this rounding to 1ms precision for time per frame carries over to 30 fps as well

at 30 fps you get 304 frames of full burst

so you get 4 extra frames, 30 fps meta

also, all timers in combat work this way

[minor fox]

what a rabbit hole

[eternal aspen]

10 second buffs are not actually lasting 10 seconds in 60 fps

[minor fox]

man they have to overhaul the game engine or something to fix this

[eternal aspen]

I just don't understand why the round it

like, unity has the deltaTime function

you are spending physically more resources by rounding that every frame than just using it straight

[minor fox]

tying actions to frames for a mostly single player game is also stupid. i think source engine e.g. can separate frame from action. (128 ticks for 128 actions per second), independent from frames.

[eternal aspen]

well, it's pretty common for game engines to only tick every frame, outside of physics sims, and even unity has a separate thread for physics sims that can decouple from fps

the real issue is that they just didn't put handling for when more time elapsed in a frame than needed for an action

[rustic rivet]

Deltatime also has its flaws

[eternal aspen]

so that extra time just gets poofed into the ether

yea but here's the thing

based on the testing done

they are still using delta time

they're just also rounding it

[rustic rivet]

Deltatime + lag is a problem

[eternal aspen]

and I confirmed this issue still exists in Nikke

by using software to throw my fps into random disarray

they are still using deltaTime

they are just also then spending resources to round it to the nearest millisecond

instead of using it straight

[rustic rivet]

To avoid lag abuse?

I suppose

Deltatime would work real well with server based games but battles are fully client side iirc

[eternal aspen]

I think SU just has a hard on for rounding, but they don't even do it consistently

if you release a shot that is fully charged, your charge damage is rounded to the second decimal place

if you release shot that is not fully charged, your charge damage is rounded to the fifth decimal place

why?

0 clue

[rustic rivet]

Problem with delta time + lag is if something lets say is supposed to be moving at 5m/s for 1 second, then u lag for 5s, it might jump 25m instead.

[eternal aspen]

still happens in nikke

if I momentarily lag my fps down while charging

I can force my SBS to charge in 1 less frame

[rustic rivet]

True but could be worse

Or its just written by interns

[eternal aspen]

rounding to the nearest millisecond doesn't prevent that abuse at all

it's just a waste of system resources

that leads to things not actually lasting as long as stated

[rustic rivet]

Shit optimization pretty much

I love it when mother whale causes frame ddrops

Ffs its 100% the projectiles doing maths

[rustic rivet]

Subtick?

No one likes subtick

Has weird behavior

Action games multiplayer ones usually are Server Sided and clients use Interpolation.

[eternal aspen]

usually only simulation games that need to do physic sims that make heavy use of subticks

[rustic rivet]

What u see is what u get as definition for subtick is a stupid description

There is always network round trip time

[jade prawn]

This is interesting info

[eternal aspen]

actually, I think I know why they're rounding the time elapsed per frame

I think math is always being done on that time due to how they handle "bullet time", where time slows down for aimable bursts

I think whoever handled that bit of the code decided to have that function round the final "adjusted" elapsed time to the nearest millisecond

and I think that function is just always being applied to elapsed time, regardless of whether you're in bullet time or not, there's just no slow down factor outside of bullet time

[limpid ridge]

i read mana freed alice from sbs

then the maids duo freed crown from alice sbs

so who is sbs premium team now? @_@

[eternal aspen]

for most people, investing in the new water units isn't going to be worth it

if you're hyperfocused on comp play, especially in SR, then pick them up as being able to move Crown could be significant for teambuilding, even if it means putting Alice back in

[sturdy lion]

So Drake, Rupee, and Yan are to blame

[minor fox]

you can’t put mana with the maids since anchor will take mana’s sbs charge buff.
you’re stuck with alice sbs maid pirates + b1 cdr if you wanna funnel into sbs

[quaint crest]

what is even the dps increase from going 18 shots to 19 shots?

on average 500% of final atk?

5.5% increase in dps?

[open sundial]

Eh

Best way is to ignore the procs because if procs were included, you'd need 21 to get the next major proc (assuming it started from 1 on the 1st attack in her own burst, which it wouldn't in many cases)

So I'd say 5.5% increase in basic attack damage. You'd then need to find all of the procs and add them up separately, in three categories. Once each for if you started with 1st proc, 2nd proc, or 3rd proc

A reminder, these are the procs, which come after 3 hits if not in her own burst, 1 hit if is in her own burst:
1st proc: 250.47% of final atk as additional damage.
2nd proc: 500% of final atk as distributed damage.
3rd proc: 750.47% of final atk as distributed damage.

[open sundial]

The mistake here is believing the 1st strike in Full Burst is always the 1st proc. It could be the 3rd proc instead, etc

Also, when she's the one bursting, it depends on the proc BS Scarlet already did when entering her burst.

Example: If she already finished 2nd proc, but still needs 3 more hits, her very 1st hit in her burst will be the 3rd proc

[quaint crest]

uuh that is why on average it is 500%?

if u start with 1st proc shot 19 will also be 1st proc doing 250% extra

start with 2nd shot 19 is 500% extra

and start with 3rd and ur shot nr 19 will also be 3rd doing 750%

so on avg 500%?

proc 1 - proc 2 - proc 3
proc 1 - proc 2 - proc 3
proc 1 - proc 2 - proc 3
proc 1 - proc 2 - proc 3
proc 1 - proc 2 - proc 3
proc 1 - proc 2 - proc 3
proc 1

[quaint crest]

yea also tried this all in cover, sbs aa 6 times

then burst, first hit she does is the 3rd proc

[open sundial]

I don’t know, tbh. The thing is, if every time BS Scarlet bursts, you always wrap up with proc 1, then it’s avg 250%

[quaint crest]

if that is true then a good charge speed line is like much beter than an atk line for OL?

[open sundial]

But also it’s actually just an addition of that damage

Not the actual % gain

[quaint crest]

yea % gain is a pain to calc

[open sundial]

For example if it’s 100% dmg done 10 times, then you added another 100% dmg, it’s a 10% gain

[open sundial]

Idk but I’m one who accidentally got two black ChSpd lines

[stone isle]

I found someone

if its still relevant

[jade field]

Just ask them if their alice can rapid fire

[stone isle]

@keen pebble