theorycrafting

[daring dove]

They call that game balance, it's intended

@outer ermine Do you find LR always clears faster than Yvonne btw if you aren't doing precast nonsense.

I'm still not sure who I should priority getting P5 weapon on first.

That said I'm still in two minds if just to pull Tangtang out of Cryo teams at this point an try build her with Rossi or other upcoming characters.

[outer ermine]

depends really, but we usually just play around stage/boss mechanics
rhod wait for 200sp b4 engaging
dorito has lots of delays so isnt an issue
marble .
ruan takes a long ass time so doesnt matter
b&a 3 stack
rock multiple hitbox so ez 4 stack

yvonne is easier tho

[smoky quarry]

heck, i forgot there's limit to comps

[outer ermine]

pilot skill issue makes a diff

literally minmaxing

[edgy crater]

back to crit fishing

[outer ermine]

I GOTIT

oops

[edgy crater]

grats

[outer ermine]

1.1m holy

and on a really fuckin good run

pls be below 16.4 i havent been checking the times on these runs cuz didnt wanna lose my edge

[smoky quarry]

26th march I'll cap both on xiranite and cuprium components, so I'll have to stop producing them. I wanted to keep it running till 31, but forgot that depot limit exists

And I'm too lazy to transfer ts

[outer ermine]

omg it didnt oneshot

[smoky quarry]

that's like enough to fully artifice 20 pieces of gear

or 5 sets

and same amount for cuprium

[outer ermine]

16.733 cs hit, 16.833 kill

how tf did i 16.3

[tight haven]

what assumptions are you making here

if youre assuming optimal conditions then this is true but its important to note that optimal conditions arent what every player has access to

[smoky quarry]

that's not assumption. that's statement

[tight haven]

no i mean, what rotational/investment assumptions

[smoky quarry]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yQRxspG8WwPv487LlaGVxQK03VFQ44EYCLHBA8Pyq5I/edit?gid=1094366487#gid=1094366487

[tight haven]

oh youre using that doc

[chilly bolt]

well this is the assumption

[gritty olive]

sorry guys ive been inactive here

[tight haven]

its still important to note the assumptions you make because saying one thing is STRICTLY better than the other makes it sound like its a necessary improvement akin to LR's sig

[smoky quarry]

It kinda is. GM is better on every metric, even P5 RA barely outclasses it

[tight haven]

glorious doesnt provide a truly meaningful increase over sundering to the point of touting it as something you ought to go for if you already have sundering p5

just important to note

[drifting quest]

P5 RA can range from a significant upgrade to marginally ahead to marginally behind to a significant downgrade

assumptions matter

[tight haven]

yeah people say "its better/worse" too much then people actually use rascent without playing properly into it and get surprised when it isnt actually much better than sundering

you should tell people how youre using things not just that you ought to use things

[daring dove]

GM is going to perform better for the vast majority of players, rapid may win specifically for those who have mastered the rotations & are going for stagger 1 shot kills.

That's my general takeway.

[smoky quarry]

it's not like you can viberot on physical team

[drifting quest]

speedrunning wise rascent is the only one that isnt conditional stacking

so its a significantly better option for those where chen doesnt get to stack

[distant python]

Too much minmaximg

I just use boxcutter

[smoky quarry]

4/3/4 on Pogr/Lifeng/Chen/Endmin is standard

Do you guys also hold the finished FS using dashes?

[distant python]

Oh also I use ember soo all timelines on the sheet are immediately scuffed because I don't have 3 vulnerable stacks from lifeng ult

[dreamy cave]

does tangtang have a problem with ult recharge? like using her on umbral, or long fights that has phases (tria)

if not, should i just swap the armor with bone t2?

[smoky quarry]

bro traded million dollars for cancer 😭

[distant python]

I like ember

[chilly bolt]

personally i rarely need to use more than 1 ult

[daring dove]

Too bad she's mine.

[gaunt mason]

i put a shitton of extra info on the doc for this reason

but no one ends up looking at it anyway

[tight haven]

yeah thats how it goes

[gaunt mason]

even went through the pain of pasting 12 different crit distributions

i think a total of two people have looked at it

[distant python]

You think people read more than 1 sentence

Just give me the best thing now

[gaunt mason]

i'd hope so

[distant python]

No nuance

[gaunt mason]

but they take the first weapon comparison they see and run with it forever

[chilly bolt]

that's me

[distant python]

I'm just too lazy and broke to worry about minmaximg that much

[gaunt mason]

smh

[distant python]

If your weapons and masteries aren't maxed is there even a reason to worry about optimal weapon

Your build is bricked anyway

[fresh trench]

thats it guys,i will continue again on monday cause im out of things to improve

[gaunt mason]

doesn't matter if you don't care about minmax

i just think sundering is really ugly

[distant python]

Fair, I think it's more accurate though

Chen would have a silly weapon

[gaunt mason]

it doesn't match her other sword 😔

[distant python]

Yes, the silly creature mismatched her swords

[tight haven]

glorious does at least look like her other sword kinda

and rascent just looks nice

its funny that glorious doesnt seem to look different at max pot though

[outer ermine]

huh

problem is im rolling for crit and complete no slowmo on lr

and i dont know why she sometimes comes out slowed and not

[honest hill]

Whel behaviour smh

[timber harness]

Lets save ffxiv posts for when the game saves itself from massive decline due to bad team decisions ruining an entire expansion

Anyways, how's the community feeling about physical in comparison to other teams since we're about a month in now

Performance is one thing but just the complexity/fun factor is what im interested in. Other teams feel bland to me

[quaint matrix]

are they fixing stutters with new driver?

[fossil pendant]

7.5 ulti saves the game

[timber harness]

Too many things wrong with the game and its direction for that alone.

I mean, theyre so out of touch they dont know how to properly give reward incentives for content.

We need to go back to the rng stat gear days. At least that was SOMETHING

[fossil pendant]

tbh

if the fights they make maintain this current quality and they don't manage to shove job gameplay even further into the dirt

i'm fine just raid logging every week

but I play way less than I used to already

I used to sit in pf looking for things to do every day, now I need to be convinced to open the game

[icy remnant]

I’m getting way too deep into sunk cost fallacy for etching

I spent 50 essences trying to get +5

I just want to get it over with and save the coolant for the next step

[outer ermine]

[smoky quarry]

Nothing-to-do-field

[bronze plume]

welcome to a gacha game

[smoky quarry]

Gachas would be so much better if they were designed like grindfest games. Like the ones with actually engaging grinding and variable gameplay

[outer ermine]

16.38ish is fastest theoritical time but the dmg needed gets higher the faster it is since tt has less time to hit

[smoky quarry]

Way better than 15 minutes of playtime daily

[bronze plume]

gacha games would be so much better if they wernt gacha games as well

but like

[outer ermine]

oh well

[bronze plume]

thats just how they work but people still play and spend tf on them so

[smoky quarry]

collecting characters can be kinda interesting, I just hate casinos

and asia is obsessed with them

[bronze plume]

thats kinda

a big main point of gachas so

[smoky quarry]

some games just ought to be ruined by terrible financial strategies

[fading ether]

Btw if its ardelia it should be lamb not beef right?

[bronze plume]

Ardelia and my name being Beef are not related

[valid zealot]

Beef is the name.

Beefyeggroll?

[fading ether]

Oh

[outer ermine]

actually brutal, +.283 for a sliver is crazy

[hollow swan]

is it worth building Perli for crit if im on-fielding her with oblivion?

[inland quarry]

Bonecrusher armor is only used on tangtang for main dps right?

[drifting quest]

depends on the team

[drifting quest]

depends with BK armour and in what team and in what rot

[inland quarry]

Why would it be rot dependent?

[hollow swan]

i kind of want to build around her as the main dps

[bronze plume]

do you think we only finna get rossi number when banner drops?

[drifting quest]

different rots have different uge reqs and hence different chest pieces as the most common uge piece

[drifting quest]

probably yes

[bronze plume]

man

[drifting quest]

everything second half seems to be absent

since i believe a second half event has no data

[bronze plume]

wonder why they are doing it like that

and if the main reason is to avoid dataminers

[drifting quest]

||The special survival training held on April 9th does not contain reward data, so will it be added when Rossi data comes in?||

[bronze plume]

no mining allowed

[inland quarry]

The main dps setups I've seen still use uge armor

[drifting quest]

anti datamine it seems

[drifting quest]

hence different rot

[hollow swan]

maybe like Perli, Gilb, Arc, Antal or swap Arc out for Ardelia

[drifting quest]

if the team has no subdps > crit can perform better but it isnt hugely better
if the team has a subdps > it can get iffier and pulser can win out in more cases

[inland quarry]

Regardless, do any subdps use bonecrusher armor?

[echo cove]

Tt?

[inland quarry]

They should all use bonecrusher kit over lynx slab due to subdps no?

Yes this is for tangtang

[echo cove]

Oh

[honest hill]

I use it on tt

[echo cove]

U mean chest

[drifting quest]

there are 2 BK armours that see use

which one do you mean

[echo cove]

I think he meant bonekrusha chest piece

Unless am tripping too

[drifting quest]

there are 2 chest pieces

that see use

[honest hill]

One is red

[inland quarry]

I'm asking about any

[drifting quest]

Heavy Armor and Heavy Armor T2

[inland quarry]

I want to know if any bonecrusher will be useful on subdps

[drifting quest]

the former is used to maintain 3p bonekrusha with a different slot off piece

[honest hill]

I use it on tt so

[drifting quest]

the latter is used in longer rots or for main dps

[honest hill]

It is useful

[drifting quest]

other builds will off piece the chest piece

[honest hill]

I like doing one rot rhodagn clears

[inland quarry]

So you run 4p bonecrusher?

[honest hill]

Yeah

[drifting quest]

4p is worse than 3p builds

[safe sand]

is there a point to upgrading xaihi weapon?

[honest hill]

I could change glove to mi glove but meh

[drifting quest]

pretty universally

[drifting quest]

depends on weapon

[honest hill]

I know but I don't wanna artifice even more

[drifting quest]

i mean for clear purposes

it doesnt matter

[honest hill]

idk what's the % difference between mi gloves and bk gloves

[safe sand]

using chivalric so id assume not given +will+maxhp

[smoky quarry]

Chinese gamedev company trying to make normal game (it would have to cost 60 dollars and it can't have microtransactions in it)

[honest hill]

tbf u don't need the healing

but that comes down to skill

[icy remnant]

Better is subjective
If we count Better as in the quantitative number of people that enjoyed it that’s false
A lot less people will even give a chance for premium paid games even if they are cheap
A simple example is Ex Astris, a relatively cheap premium game made by Gryphline that profited a whopping -1.7m despite being “good”

[bronze plume]

https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4-gif-5143688443782660001

[icy remnant]

Consumers have shown that they actively prefer to spend on gacha games and in game transactions rather than buy games

Words matter less than objective financial statements

[smoky quarry]

Mass consumer likes to consume shit

preferably in huge masses

sad reality

[icy remnant]

We always claim it’s shit and we consume it nonetheless
Speaking with your wallet is how companies find out what works and what doesn’t

And normal premium games simply don’t work especially on mobile

[honest hill]

True

tho a lot of western games suck

[smoky quarry]

So much potential wasted in the mud

[outer ermine]

@summer flicker ur turn

[honest hill]

single player games are the bets rn

best

[honest hill]

wow what a whel

[smoky quarry]

Asian gaming companies just can't cook for some reason, with sole exceptions like Capcom

[honest hill]

what capcom games have been good recently

[icy remnant]

I recommend to try out Slay The Spire 2 although it’s still in early access
But yea in no way games like these are ever worth making as devs over just a simple game with micro transactions

[smoky quarry]

Re9 requiem is insane?

[honest hill]

okay yeah that's fair

They do good w RE but suck w MH I mean look at wilds

older MH was better

[icy remnant]

Aren’t Hoyo
Yostar
Hypergryph all Asian

[smoky quarry]

that's the point I was making?

[icy remnant]

Isn’t there that Wukong game that was super popular

[honest hill]

yes black myth wukong peak

[icy remnant]

You’re claiming they can’t cook?

[smoky quarry]

extremely mid souls-like targeted at chinese culture

[tight haven]

ive always said that i think a lot of gacha games are fun but its a moral imperative to shit on gacha as a medium

[honest hill]

Wukong was really good tho

it's nowhere close to mid it's peak

[smoky quarry]

i don't know, monkey gaming made no impression on me

[honest hill]

Maybe ur just more in Dark Souls

[icy remnant]

We can try to shit on it all we want but it’s the only financially responsible way to bring about expensively produced premium games that cater to the mobile audience

[honest hill]

[icy remnant]

You try to create it any other way and you will dig yourself a multi million loss hole in the ground

[honest hill]

Wuchang, Black Myth, First Beserker, Lies of P are like the recent ones

That were good for me

[smoky quarry]

Nobody would shit on gachas if they weren't inherently built to milk money out of people

[tight haven]

sure, i still think its the duty of every self-respecting person to just clown on gachas and gacha gamers all the time

[icy remnant]

That’s the entire point
Money talks

Nobody buys premium games

People just pirate it or don’t even give them a chance

[tight haven]

is it

problematic

to call you broke

if youre pirating literally every game you play

idk i think its funny to take that as a given in the same conversation where freemium live-service games are being held up as the only economical way to make a game in big 26

[icy remnant]

I talked about it in Reddit and it’s always super divided even if I end up getting support
People genuinely don’t care about stealing fair work until AI steals their art and threatens their livelihood

[tight haven]

okay well like

[icy remnant]

It’s only when it affects them when they care

[tight haven]

respectfully

why would you go to fucking reddit,

[icy remnant]

Meh it’s just a way to gather opinions
Discord is also another social medium

[tight haven]

okay no im being glib but i do think that every gaming sub is just infested with AI shills

its self-selecting especially in the capital-AAA games subs

[icy remnant]

It’s just not very possible or financially responsible anymore to create high quality passionate games without adding microtransactions esp on mobile

[tight haven]

maybe

[icy remnant]

People spoke with their wallets this is what we got

[smoky quarry]

Personally, I don't give a shit about IP until someone starts to claim ownership of it, which happens like... never?

[tight haven]

📡

[smoky quarry]

I'm glad that people who could never afford projects of passion now can do it

imagine how many good ideas were buried under the rubble

And people are so hateful about it, that they go out of their way and witchhunt these creators

Their position is baseless. The only thing they're interested in is arguments that support their sick worldview, even if they're fundamentally flawed.

[tiny crag]

Indies are still good

[tight haven]

bro who are you subtexting

statements coming off a bit intense and vague for this convo

[icy remnant]

I just found it funny he kept ranting after we stopped typing

[tight haven]

no idea what point they were even making there

[outer ermine]

omg

maybe

16.666 hit so 1 frame

how is it so slow bruh

[tight haven]

maybe it actually is the hitstop like lin said

just having weird ass interactions with ult anims

[outer ermine]

yea think its mirage hitstop rn, gotta check later

im beat bruh

[tight haven]

this game was not built for speedrunning

🤸‍♂️

lr times actually being bricked because of her bs would be hilarious though

[honest hill]

Is this P5P5 LR on strikers acc

[tight haven]

no

thats their own

[honest hill]

but Hifumi is not a whel

I think

[tight haven]

their account has like

four maxed/p5 6* on it

[honest hill]

wtf

No wonder

[tight haven]

[young spade]

Congratulations!!

[outer ermine]

fake

[tight haven]

still a lower AL than me though theyre a fake whale

[outer ermine]

i only refresh like 2-4 times cuz i only farm essence lol

https://streamable.com/on44w9

[honest hill]

We found ur whel acc

[tight haven]

okay yeah it does LOOK like the mirage is at fault there

[outer ermine]

its supposed to be a good run cuz it felt like lr bas after ult was fast

[tight haven]

are you just trying to beat a pb

[outer ermine]

yvonne

[tight haven]

or beating another players time

[outer ermine]

lol

[tight haven]

oh

[outer ermine]

16.45

[tight haven]

is that the yvonne record without waiting out ult

[outer ermine]

yeah

[tight haven]

goddamn that looks so rough

that was like a 16.8?

oh 16.68

[outer ermine]

yea .683

hit was .666 so it was okay

[tight haven]

wheres the yvonne run youre beating

[outer ermine]

i was actually surprised that 900k crit killed lol

[tight haven]

curious if she has any possible timesave

[outer ermine]

since 1.1m earlier i was still missing but i m3ed basics, fed xai +15 stats

https://www.vxbilibili.com/video/BV13vPkzPEY5

it was on 5th so prolly

i havent scanned it enuf to see tho

i have a 16.3 cs hit from earlier that i need to check, fhats the only way

[tight haven]

did it not kill bcs you didnt crit?

[outer ermine]

crit but not enuf dmg b4 it so +something

[tight haven]

hopefully you replicate it then 🙏

and yvonne doesnt beat lr again LOL

[outer ermine]

^

[tight haven]

LOLLLLLL

[bronze plume]

why have yall got the new leaf thing smh

[tight haven]

paid 100000 stock bills for it

[outer ermine]

i wish i didnt get it lol i need my beta2 back

[tight haven]

can you take it off

lmao

[bronze plume]

stock bills?

[tight haven]

ok

you can

nice

[outer ermine]

oh wtf?

[tight haven]

just shop removerole

in #bot-spam

[bronze plume]

tf you mean you brought it

[tight haven]

[bronze plume]

how do i know how much stock bills i have gang

[outer ermine]

.

[drifting quest]

what

[bronze plume]

i have

143k stock bills apparently

[tight haven]

woah

thats almost enough for two artificing catalysts

[bronze plume]

W

[chilly bolt]

Wow mr influence

[normal tangle]

do we know when next stanza day is

is there a tool for that

[chilly bolt]

Tmr trust

[dusk isle]

Whats in todays shop

[chilly bolt]

Can't check im on bed

[outer ermine]

whip out the phone

[hollow magnet]

question is yinglung set chen an actual thing or like could i just use the radar and swordmancer gauntlets to still utilize stagger efficiency

[dusk isle]

I might be wrong but i think next stanza is 10 days from now

[normal tangle]

where is that info from

[dusk isle]

Notes on my pc, i dont have access to it rn tho

[dusk isle]

So i just checked some msg i sent my friend

4 days ago i said it was 2 weeks later

[hollow magnet]

oh more or less the same that's all i needed to know

is this the team build sheet?

[outer ermine]

nah

[edgy crater]

u still crit fishing tang2 bs?

[quartz horizon]

what da team

[outer ermine]

im out of ginseng

crits on tt bs was ight

[quartz horizon]

aren't u killing the man too quickly

no merciful death

[outer ermine]

https://tenor.com/view/panto-pt-ajitani-hifumi-hifumi-blue-archive-gif-16817230695535296570

he deserves it

[quartz horizon]

guess u really do love and hate them huh

[outer ermine]

i dont think i can replciate this run actually

16.2 was lowest cs hit

[wild rose]

What about next Thermite Cutter?

[dusk isle]

[wild rose]

Oh I see. Someone told me that the one week I wasn't playing, Thermite Cutter was in the shop. Seems they were lying

[dusk isle]

I dont remember getting thermite in weekly arsenal

[wild rose]

o7

[drifting quest]

thermite hasnt shown up yet

also wont show up during 1.1

for whatever reason they reran 3 different weapons this patch

rather than any of the 5? 6? that havent yet shown up

||Thermite, WNN, Sundered, JET, Wedge, Chiv||

all yet to have a weekly rotation, earliest 1.2

Oblivion, ||Clannibal and Valiant|| have had or will have a rerun in 1.1

[quasi quarry]

|| WNN || 😭

hope that thing never does rotate in the shop

[wispy shuttle]

Are these selections related to the weapon selector boxes we got?

[drifting quest]

what selections

if you mean does the weekly rotation relate to them

no

[wispy shuttle]

Ok

[shut cobalt]

why is tangtang maindps not included in the pinned guide? it seems like a good team

[kindred sorrel]

Because it’s worse than both LR and Yvonne teams presumably

[shut cobalt]

i c, how does it compare to phys then? dmg wise

phys is the same rating as yvonne there so i dont think its much different?

is it worth it trying to go for this? (10k arsenal tickets)
pinned guide says its mandatory but maygi's calcs says its 13% difference from the 3rd best so idk who to trust
asked in #help but idk if thats accurate so im asking here instead
one person answered there "hell no" but im asking here since this is technically the number crunching channel but i had a non number question, so idk where to ask

[drifting quest]

maygi calcs are team damage, which is skewed with the introduction of tangtang. Sig is a pretty notable increase but is not required to clear at all. its also ridiculously expensive unless you are a whale

but no one can make the choice for you

[shut cobalt]

so its not worth it at all i assume, especially with that cost

i thought it was the same with tangtang since he didnt say anything else on the tangtang part, before tangtang he said "don't bother if you don't have sig" and on tangtang nothing

[shut cobalt]

im asking precisely to help me decide, sorry if i wasnt clear

[shut cobalt]

should i just select exemplar from this and call it a day? i dont have sundered prince and the 5* weapon is way too behind

[drifting quest]

Again no one can make the choice for oyu

its up to you what you are willing to spend or not spend

[shut cobalt]

im asking whats best to do since idk

[drifting quest]

no one can tell you what is best to do

its preference

we can give you the numbers you have to make the choice

[shut cobalt]

got it, guess ill just skip the sig then, but i assume i should atleast get exemplar? or is the 5* weapon completely fine too numberwise?

[drifting quest]

depending on the gear and rot impacts 5* performance

i havent seen math on it in the new tt rot

[shut cobalt]

i c, one more thing that i dont get
how is exemplar only 11% lower? the 3rd passive is basically useless, or am i missing smth here?

[drifting quest]

stat stick

• team damage

with a subdps

[shut cobalt]

ahh, got it, and uh one more thing that just came up as i was looking on the pinned guide
is gilberta or perlica last slot better?

[drifting quest]

purely preference

[shut cobalt]

what are the pros of each of them then? gilberta aoe and perlica what idk what perlica does?

[summer flicker]

[drifting quest]

the one you are more comfortable playing is the one that performs better

[shut cobalt]

got it, thanks! thats all

[summer flicker]

perlica has higher dmg but required investing into perlica

gilb can judt be a buff bot

[drifting quest]

they have different gearing and rots too

for lr and tt

there's a discussion to be had about consistency post first burst

and full vs 0 energy

but i really cba to get into that rn

[twilit quail]

lr tt dispute is minor compared to yvonne tt

cause it's mathematically best to just play TT as upsized alesh for yvonne

but people dont like the thought of that

and have an emotional response

so they get angry and argue

it's pretty funny really

[quasi quarry]

upsized alesh?

[twilit quail]

3x xiranite

application + buff bot

[quasi quarry]

o

[twilit quail]

cause in the stream they used the ult to let yvonne shoot at cced enemy right

but then we got our hands on the multipliers on live server

and we realised that it was best for dmg to just make her exactly that, upsized alesh

that is not even necessarily ebtter than alesh sometimes

[quasi quarry]

I should look more into the cryo teams, they're the least I know about cause I don't have any of the ops

[twilit quail]

people just dont like

the thought of desyncing the ult

and some will go like

"it's a waste of the ult's mechanics to use it this way"

which, well, is understandable from a certain perspective right

but the unit really is not very compatible with yvonne

[lyric latch]

will you add Tangtang main dps to the sheet @twilit quail ?

[twilit quail]

probably not

return on investment is not good

without dupes on two of the limiteds in the team

it's not unplayable or anything but I dont think it is worth my effort

that's all

[lyric latch]

ic

[drifting quest]

wait its mathematically better to not dip into talent 2

how

[twilit quail]

do you mean the dmg or what

it's not like we dont do the dive

when we are using her this way

[drifting quest]

oh

the way you worded it implied

no dive

[twilit quail]

trying to give tt damage the same buffs as the other dmg dealing unit(yvonne) extends the rotation by an unhealthy amount

because of gil presence

and so we end up with the current situation

it's why Ive just put off

making the graphic for yvonne

Im genuinely hoping that someone can come up with better gear + rotation

that just beats the ass of both sides in that argument

and then I can be lazy and not have to do a writeup

[quasi quarry]

people can be too caught up with "intended" use cases at times honestly, unless it's something wildly out of the game designer's scope, if an option is available I don't get why shun it

[drifting quest]

i can give it a look

[twilit quail]

like I said, right

[drifting quest]

maybe

[twilit quail]

mostly emotional reaction from people

[drifting quest]

does gilb even matter

like if you just drop her entirely it smooths alignment and you dont even really lose much stack wise, buff losses hurt but they arent make or break and should be made up for by buff uptime

[twilit quail]

of course it matters what

ok so

it's immensely difficult to get TT damage into gil buffs because of nature stack

and your only sources of ice application

are tangtang and xai cs

even with p1 cd reduction and m3 on tt cs

there is basically no equilibrium that is possible to hit

that balances timeline length

number of stacks applied

SP use, ult gain, and buff coverage

gil sig can almost save it but not quite

[drifting quest]

arent the perlica rots similar length

1 + 4 stack

and then you can put tangtang skills during the electrification and its easier to align buffs due to stanza and electrification lasting longer

like yeah its less burst window damage than gilb

[twilit quail]

yvonne dropping gil

[drifting quest]

but in theory it should be somewhat made up for

i mean what is gilb offering that you cannot compensate for

inf stack is covered by tt now

buffing is less but easier to work with

unless im missing something blatant here

[warped sorrel]

Etching Essence the last 1-2 slot upgrade for each stat, gear artificing, skill mastery
Which give the most dmg gain

[cinder oxide]

Just giving some input from smth I was taught for Yvonne TT Xaihi Gil

I didn’t make this just to clarify I was just taught to use it

[pure spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/exusiai-dizzy-arknights-exusiai-alter-anime-dizzy-gif-3860794534216240233

banger song

[frozen tide]

Tt with yvonne is net increase compared to yvonne comp without tt right

[manic mountain]

How is this calculated into Perlica's critical rate chance? I have Perlica at 25%crit rate, will it be 25%+30% = 55% ?

[quartz horizon]

ya the ult crit chance will be around 55

[white helm]

Best food for Yvonne showcase?

[white helm]

Is this P0?

@cinder oxide

[cinder oxide]

Think so have to ask the guy

[white helm]

Oh I thought it was u

[chilly bolt]

Why not redeemer hands

[shut cobalt]

how much ult gain do the ones other than gilberta need?

[odd wren]

As per lappland when its just .5% dps increase

Im focusing on artificing the ult damage kits first

And maybe try getting redeemer later on

[odd wren]

Also might not make one since i already did this, so i think im good?

But yeah still need to full artifice the kits

[edgy elk]

guy here

[edgy elk]

not p0, p4 (but p3-tier damage since that 10sp from p4 wasnt used for anything)
i went foodless tho. yvonne p0 ginseng > yvonne p3 foodless

btw- if i had p1 tangtang i could probably fit another tt bs at :22. but rn if i did that i wouldn't have sp for yvonne's last battleskill

[lyric rain]

Any recommendations for lr gear

[quartz horizon]

its to personal preference and play style u have with her

all skill dmg like u have rn is a good one. so is ult DMG, combo DMG, etc

[outer ermine]

@edgy crater omg i forgor i had chiv

why is my dumbass using det when theres 2 sep burst

lol ijust fuckin wooke up

maybe grind for 16.2?

its less abt not dealing dmg anymore and more on me now

[jagged stump]

my p0 thermite fell off by a bit🥀

p5 obj 491 int archlight

[outer ermine]

im free

yea im not gonna bother thats hella good enuf

[inland quarry]

How does yinglung compare to swordmaster for chen in chen/endmin/yifeng/pog team? In particular while using sundering steel

[edgy crater]

how bout starry?

[outer ermine]

ard has it

[edgy crater]

oh yeah no swap

or w8, 2 starry?

[stone thunder]

Hnag?

Hnaf?

[edgy crater]

what?

[stone thunder]

ThereMs joycat too

[stone thunder]

We’re ID dudes

[edgy crater]

[rapid heron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0axBbHnehQ incase anyone interesting in some theorycrafting for Rossi team

[chilly bolt]

[rapid heron]

SHieldguard stocks STONK

[terse valley]

waiter! waiter! more feelcrafting please!!

[rapid heron]

sad for all Pogless Endmin

[chilly bolt]

We should start feelscrafting her gear too

My bet is yinglung ult maxing

[terse valley]

cuprium MI gears

[chilly bolt]

Mi set stonks

[rapid heron]

Nothing wrong with a bit of theory crafting so people can prepare characters for the team they want to play if needed. Yes we dont know exact number for her SKill Modifier but we know basicly most of her mechanics. SO if you know the game you sitll can choose which Operator will work best with her kit and who will not.

and why would you not use MI set on ROssie when her weapon passive, her talents her ult all benefit from it?

[chilly bolt]

Probably

Either mi security or yinglung

[steel summit]

what gear does chen want to be using?

[chilly bolt]

Swordmancer or yinglung depends if you want more stagger or more dmg

Check the docs pins for details

[odd wren]

Depends on weapon tbf

If you have max pot memory on her she's better using yinlung

[steel summit]

p4 memory, close enough lol. should she be the controlled operator with yinlung?

[odd wren]

Controlled is personal preference

Its up to you

[steel summit]

ty

[daring dove]

Tangtang was much better than predicted prior to her release, Rossi might perform much better or much worse than predicted. Also skill modifiers are the most important aspect of her kit & will determine if shes usable or not.

Pointless to thoery craft beyond potential teammates rn.

[wispy shuttle]

teammates + rotations tbf

then fill in the numbers and her performance will reveal itself

[pure spoke]

Mi fu when

[quick tangle]

[wispy shuttle]

I'm looking at the LR+TT rotation that iana added and the recommended UGE for TT is 45.6%. However if I run the math on that (3c6s, 120sp refund -> 30 + 4.8*6.5 = 61.2 energy -> 90/61.2 = 1.471) i get to 47.1%. Where does the 1.5% difference come from?

[twilit quail]

I plugged in the wrong number lol

teehee!

45.6% is for different comp's specific dupe situation and I got them mixed

[wispy shuttle]

ok cool

[sly vessel]

do those narrative events like laev expire after their charterered hh banner end?

[wispy shuttle]

they do expire, you can check the event timeline given by hg

dunno about tangtang and rossi actually, since I don't see theirs on the calandar

[soft tendon]

They just disappear off the event page

You can still do them if you meet mission requirements

[honest hill]

P1 rite

[smoky quarry]

TangTang event is basically part of the main story, so she isn't getting separate one

Rossi's event in on the calendar

[honest hill]

are you pulling her?

[smoky quarry]

No, I wanna see the birb

[honest hill]

birb?

[honest hill]

maybe she will show up next patch

[smoky quarry]

I believe she'll be electro sub-dps, cause that kinda makes sense

[honest hill]

so she'll replace perli

and zhuang will replace avy

[smoky quarry]

Doubt it

[honest hill]

vanguard?

replace akekuri

[smoky quarry]

I'll just run them together

Two birds on the team

I don't think she is caster, looks like sword user. So might be vanguard indeed

[outer ermine]

[honest hill]

u will P5P5

[outer ermine]

if electric

[honest hill]

what a whel

[smoky quarry]

Mi Fu will probably be striker/caster based on combustion damage. Devs added strength-based hotworks part that are useless for wulfgard, since they buff arts intensity

[honest hill]

we don't know who's coming 1.2

[smoky quarry]

Li Zhiyang is either cryo or electro looking at her color palette. Can't be main dps, since she doesn't looks important enough. Can't be cryo cause we had tt already

By my sheer speculation and past observations I can say that she doesn't looks like gun or arts user (polearm and gs out of the picture), must be a sword

[smoky quarry]

We can do what we always did, speculate and theorize

[honest hill]

[smoky quarry]

Definitely not fangyi though. All event legendaries we currently have were personally invited into endfield by endministrator, and wuling story isnt gonna finish next patch unless they pickup the pace

[honest hill]

maybe she is 1.3/4

[smoky quarry]

that's what I thought

[dry kindle]

smh iana spreading misinformation

[smoky quarry]

I'll be very glad if akekuri gets replaced on electro-team actually

girl barely does anything

[fresh trench]

akekuri slander in #theorycrafting 😭

[rapid heron]

yes and that what i did

[drifting quest]

pre tc has been

half worthless half not

at least in tangtangs case

a lot changed from pre tc to live but teams ended up somewhat as expected

but rossi's different for teams

any number of her like 5-10 teams could work / be good / etc

[rapid heron]

it depend on what you looking for

top dps yes maybe half works

but depend on players roster what units they have at least they can still play rossi with similar idea but just less dmg

[ashen scroll]

T2 are growth chamber main with butt dragon

[rapid heron]

huh?

[terse valley]

what

[drifting quest]

I mean yeah this is tc

Its all minmax

Anything clears so there's no point considering that as a margin

[summer flicker]

ggs m12

[drifting quest]

whale didnt m12 day 1

fake

[terse valley]

all maxed out
is eating powder
🥀

[edgy crater]

p5 brigand?

[summer flicker]

nah, im broke

[edgy crater]

fake whale

[pure spoke]

real gamers use Rapid ascent on Tang tang

[outer ermine]

gotta do that cutscene skip a bit faster

[fresh trench]

i can edit it out,when you doing this for more than 20 times,i dont have that reaction time 😭

so i left it there for now

listen im too lazy aight

[outer ermine]

just skip spamming esc+lmb and pull down a bit to right

[fresh trench]

i have to do this everytime i got new record to see the time 😭

[outer ermine]

feel like it was 2m45s the last time i saw it

or 25

i forgor

[fresh trench]

it was 3:30 at first i watch someone else use slab on ardelia (not solo) so i try it in improve to around 2:45 then 2:40 when i fully upgrade her gear skill damage then 2:35 and then 2:30 and 2:26 and now this

one or two artificing sound little but it actually huge on her

[outer ermine]

is that p5p5 btw

whel

[fresh trench]

p4p1

[outer ermine]

oh can go faster but noice

[fresh trench]

if i get one of this more p

and then im done

[fresh trench]

waiting for tommorow for artificing material rn

so ardelia artificing is huge cause she scale like this
her dolly rush increase 28%,corrosion 12%?,weapon buff 12% or 24% when ult,her hotset 50% so only like one or two more artificing is a huge improvement on her

[outer ermine]

2m20s soon

[fresh trench]

it actually is 2m:19 if i skip cutscene so it is infact already sub 2m:20

[chilly bolt]

Mr dolly stronk

[fresh trench]

i actually think i can solo marble and riyuan with p5p5,but at that point why

[icy remnant]

Okay I can p5 Umbral torch now

:>

So many people shat on this weapon when it can reach ~90% of Sig without using Arsenal tickets

[drifting quest]

90% team performance in idealised conditions*

[icy remnant]

Is it a very hard scenario?

[drifting quest]

not especially but requires ardelia

[icy remnant]

Well I'm using Ardelia

[drifting quest]

and then needs to be compared against ardelia comp for sig

whereas there are better teams without ardelia

there was a lot of

doomposting

[icy remnant]

On?

[drifting quest]

but also 90% gap is omitting relevant information

[icy remnant]

Right

[drifting quest]

doomposting about the drop from sig to torch

[icy remnant]

How much better is the non Ardelia comp

[smoky quarry]

It's not slander if it is true

[drifting quest]

'all she does is these useful things'

[icy remnant]

She's a 4 star, all that alone is kinda cracked

[smoky quarry]

the point is, only 1/3 of her kit is useful

and I'd say it's mildly good, just enough to not swap her out for arclight

[icy remnant]

Doesn't it say alot if it's more useful than 90% of the cast

[drifting quest]

define 1/3 of her kit

[smoky quarry]

didn't I listed all effects of her ult?

[icy remnant]

Anyways how much better is non Ardelia comps for Laev

[drifting quest]

yes but im curious if you are genuinely suggesting a unit is only good if their skill, combo and ult are all good

[cobalt basin]

crazy how this is still sidestepped because people are feelscrafting or smth

[smoky quarry]

Antal is strictly better at boss fight

[icy remnant]

I use Antal together with Ardelia

Why is it either or

[smoky quarry]

Her battle skill is not needed even on laeva team if your rotation is refined, you can get 4 stacks just with wulfgard

Her combo is nothingburger and almost never procs for me (on heat and electro team)

[icy remnant]

Lol

[drifting quest]

so you are in fact genuinely suggesting a unit needs skill combo and ult to all be good individually

so like 90% of the roster is bad

got it

[smoky quarry]

Except, there are units like that?

[cobalt basin]

brother perlica is used in teams where only her combo skill is relevant, i don't know what you're arguing for

[icy remnant]

It's hard to win an argument against a genius but it's impossible to win an argument against an idiot

[drifting quest]

poetic

[smoky quarry]

Her ult still does a lot of damage regardless. On electro team her dmg share is higher than avywenna

[icy remnant]

So I guess we don't have the numbers?

[drifting quest]

depends on rot, enemy fought, skill level of the player

no strict numbers

[cobalt basin]

and how much does that translates to the team I actually mentioned?

[smoky quarry]

I like being dismissed by deragoratory comments cause someone doesn't wants to listen what I say

not a ragebait at all

[icy remnant]

Then it just sounds to me that it's just the Ardelia comp

I know the wulfgard antal Akekuri comp exists but

[smoky quarry]

I wasn't really talking about perlica on lava team though?

[icy remnant]

Its really hard to see it coming ahead

[drifting quest]

you're welcome to your own opinions on the topic and some people may start arguments on it

i dont personally see any merit in trying to convince you otherwise when you seem convinced

[icy remnant]

I hope MiFu is a way better heat applicator than wulfgard

Maybe apply combustion

[smoky quarry]

90% of the roster do impact with 2/3 of their kit, idk what are you talking about

[drifting quest]

As I said

[icy remnant]

Still holding on the copium that the Str arts intensity hotwork set is for her

[drifting quest]

No merit

[smoky quarry]

Just say you're not willing to argue.

be real about that

[drifting quest]

Did I not say that

These things are never productive

People will not change their minds

[smoky quarry]

There's difference between "I don't wanna" and "I see no merit". You want to say first, but end up saying latter

[icy remnant]

I don't know what the lore ban tag is but I can see why you got it

[cobalt basin]

I assumed you meant this and by mentioning Perlica, I'm saying there's units that are good with just 1-2 useful kit, e.g. Perlica on cryo, or Gilberta being a literal ult bot and most teams doesn't even use her BS for corrossion if that's not what you meant then I misread it somewhere and that'd be my bad

[smoky quarry]

Yep, perlica on lava team is not the best choice, as said by iana, "10% team dps loss", but playable

she still does decent damage with her ult, but I'd just get antal for electroheat-support

[cobalt basin]

i meant to reply to this welp

[smoky quarry]

As for general picks, I prefer antal in lava team, cause he is more useful in overworld for me. Team buffs are more stable and have better downtime than enemy debuffs usually

and his debuff + amp usually yields more than ardelia for solo-target, on top of having better sp economy

Granted, I don't know about p5p5 ardelia

[smoky quarry]

Akekuri has no objective use for her combat skill, which is quite rare on the roster. I end up using it only if I commit mistake in the rotation

I don't strictly hate her, she still has more value than arclight

but I want something better

[drifting quest]

Akekuri skill is used in Laev rotations

[fierce nest]

do u guys have theorycrafted the most probable rossi team

[drifting quest]

No we have no rossi numbers

[fierce nest]

yeah but im just asking for a team. not the best but a team that just works.

[potent hornet]

rossi, tangtang, LR, Xaihi

that will work

[fierce nest]

how does it work tho

[potent hornet]

TangTang, LR, Xaihi carry and Rossi has fun doing whatever

[fierce nest]

i think i worded it bad.

[smoky quarry]

wf bs + wulf cs + wulf ult + laeva cs + wulf cs + laeva fs + laeva bs + laeva ult

by the time laeva ult is finished, wulf should have his cs and ult ready again

that is rotation for charge set though. Am I wrong somewhere?

[fierce nest]

which team is the best fit for rossi

[drifting quest]

Ake bs is just a better wulf bs

[potent hornet]

and someone said

[smoky quarry]

for AoE, sure

[potent hornet]

we don't know because we don't have numbers

but that wasn't good enough

theoretically you can slap her anywere right now and she will do fine

A: the game isn't hard

B: we don't have numbers so its all imagination atm

[fierce nest]

yea thats fine to me

[potent hornet]

so my team of rossi, tangtang, LR, and Xaihi works because even without rossi numbers the team will do fine with the 3 we do know of

[lyric latch]

impossible to know what will be Rossi's best team but if you want any usable team just look at the ones they showed in the Dev_Log. they are probably not going to be the best but they will give you an ideia.

[fierce nest]

oh, i forgot about the dev log

lmao

yeah

[fierce nest]

thanks i see it now

[potent hornet]

hell even with the numbers right before patch went live people were dooming TangTang

[drifting quest]

In sgt too

[potent hornet]

it took actually playing her to realize that she was crazy

[smoky quarry]

didn't we had a conclusion of 10% team dps increase that still stands?

with her signature

there's 30% team dps increase for LR team that is theoretically possible with perfect rotation

[fierce nest]

i was asking how she fits with the current roster. like chen lift > endmin crush, they fit right? that kind of thing, but i saw the dev log and they showcased with rossi, wulf, endmin and akekuri

[smoky quarry]

wulf and ake create stacks, rossi converts, endmin consumes

[potent hornet]

she won't slot perfectly into any of the existing teams without needing to replace something else since she requires inflictions and vuln

[fierce nest]

yeah, i literally forgot the dev log so, thats my bad

[fierce nest]

gotchu

[smoky quarry]

I think her actual team will look like:

Endmin/Panda - Rossi - Heat applicator - Flex support

[drifting quest]

The issue with rossi is
if you make her team a crush team you lose the benefit of pog and lifeng buffs which guts the damage considerably, while also stacking slower over time than mono phys does and also losing chen dps

rossi has split damage types so she benefits less from mono phys buffs so her dps will be lower than aforementioned chen

if you try retain lifeng pog crusher she stacks miserably

if you want to try make her an arts burst dps you are gated based on her ult cost, combo cd, proccing combo consistently, etc

any hybrid teams just perform worse than going full on either direction

[fierce nest]

yeah, i can see why people need numbers since shes hybrid

[drifting quest]

theoretically, of course

her numbers could massively change things but we do not know what they are

[summer flicker]

could be the best dps till now with ultra number

clueless

[drifting quest]

3k multiplier ult

90 cost

[smoky quarry]

it's speculated that yinglung ult damage gear is actually made for her

[potent hornet]

for yvonne team yes i think so, LR is a special case because of the amount of cryo suscept that you can add with a 4stack combo skill that can ultra boost TangTang early ult

[smoky quarry]

the one that chen (+20%dps) uses atm

[terse raptor]

i think rossi is agi/int, seeing the new mi gears

[smoky quarry]

doesn't looks smart to me

[terse raptor]

[edgy crater]

agi artzy

[potent hornet]

we at least have the bp weapon

that will fuel a crit ult fishing build

[halcyon zenith]

if i want to artifice strength secondary stat on gloves, do we know whether theres any difference on whether i use redeemer hands or any main stat strength gloves?
both say good match but idk whether theres a difference

[smoky quarry]

Xaihi reaches max amp on 400 int?

[potent hornet]

should be any main stat str

[halcyon zenith]

alr thx, still dont have that many cuprium parts and if i can save some wuling bills ill be happy

[honest hill]

nope

[edgy crater]

1200

[honest hill]

yeah

1200

[chilly bolt]

just need higher stat for good match, it doesnt matter which

[halcyon zenith]

perfect thx

[smoky quarry]

there's none

[smoky quarry]

she has 60% maximum amp

?

[chilly bolt]

75%

[smoky quarry]

i thought it is 36% including base amp

[chilly bolt]

60 from ult and 15 from bs

[edgy crater]

technically 66% if we count p5 effect

[chilly bolt]

oh and p5 too

[smoky quarry]

can't call antal fraud, but still

[edgy crater]

u forgot p1 effect

[chilly bolt]

what's p1

[edgy crater]

+5 on bs amp iirc

[smoky quarry]

they robbed us of electro/heat support

[edgy crater]

so her max amp total should be close to 86

[smoky quarry]

[icy remnant]

Antals numbers are so good how can you say robbed

[chilly bolt]

holy 88% amp

[icy remnant]

Antal is Lowlights OC btw

[edgy crater]

nah 86

[icy remnant]

He straight up imported him into the game cus of favouritism

[chilly bolt]

oh true

[edgy crater]

privilege

[chilly bolt]

holy 86% amp

[smoky quarry]

22% amp is good, but 50-60% amp?

[icy remnant]

Reconvener? Nah we don’t need that
The CEO wants him in so we bring him in

[edgy crater]

my xaihi ulti alone already give 50amp

[smoky quarry]

either xaihi is insane or they robbed us

[icy remnant]

Are you genuinely comparing him to Gilberta

Oh Xaihi

Yea Xaihi is insane

[smoky quarry]

who is talking about gilberta

[edgy crater]

im sure current xaihi already nerf version

[icy remnant]

But yea Antal is a great unit still

[lyric latch]

Xaihi 6* when

[smoky quarry]

Lowlight alter when

[edgy crater]

2 xaihi in a team

[smoky quarry]

Antal the Dimlight

[icy remnant]

I mean Xaihis conditional is a real thing
Antal is so easy to use

And the amount of stacks he can apply is absurd

For heat infliction

[smoky quarry]

he can add 2 stacks for 1 sp

[icy remnant]

Ye

Along with all his support

He’s pretty much Laevs best partner is we only care about ST

Antal is stacks+ buff for 1 SP every 60s

[icy remnant]

Tbh it can be more than 2 stacks

Hm I didn’t realise his cooldown was that high it didn’t feel that high when I played

[smoky quarry]

If you could reach 20s cooldown

even with frontier it's only 20.4

not even talking about the fact that you can't trigger it in perfect timing

[icy remnant]

In theory you should just reapply his amp before it ends

It’s not really just a 2 stack and that’s it situation

It’s more like 2.5 or so

[smoky quarry]

Actually I'm thinking why people slot ardelia for laeva

[icy remnant]

Easy combo skill

Free stacks

[smoky quarry]

Wulf ult

[icy remnant]

Buff w hotworks

[icy remnant]

Is your wulf Ult up every 15s?

[glass birch]

Because you can get ardelia's combo off of any lae final strike

[smoky quarry]

hotwork is triggered only for the one who activated set effect

[glass birch]

Since lae clears the heat infliction

[icy remnant]

Yes

[smoky quarry]

With max ult efficiency? Should be available every rotation

[icy remnant]

But anyways Ardelia genuinely gives Laev a free heat stack every 15s

[smoky quarry]

so does antal, just on 25s

[icy remnant]

Every rotation you mean every 2 skills

Of Laev

[smoky quarry]

ardelia has an issue of combo trigger

[icy remnant]

???

You basic attack w Laev and u take away all the heat stacks

What are you talking about

It triggers legit non stop

[glass birch]

Ardelia's combo trigger is just final strike against a tsrget with no vuln or inflictions

[smoky quarry]

In which order effects are triggered?

[drifting quest]

laev will eat the stacks first

and proc ard combo

[smoky quarry]

makes sense

[icy remnant]

Can you actually just try the units

[smoky quarry]

though it won't work if enemy has combustion

[icy remnant]

Ardelia slander without trying her

[drifting quest]

combustion is a reaction not an infliction

[icy remnant]

If you tested her once in Umbral you’d know this

[drifting quest]

ardelia checks for no vuln or infliction

[icy remnant]

But yea Ardelia combo procs legit every 15s

Non stop

[smoky quarry]

Is this enough of a proof?

I didn't paid a lot of attention to the mechanism, that's true

[icy remnant]

Aight

But yea I don’t think I’ll remove her from my Laev team cus of how comfy she makes it

If I were to remove a unit in the future I hope it’s Wulfgard

A better heat applicator that actually does something

Hope it’s Mifu

[smoky quarry]

does something

3 heat inflictions for 1 SP every rotation and free combustion for combo
???

he has the most impact on the team, if anything

[icy remnant]

Sure but I hope we get a heat applicator that does something else other than exist for stacks

Some buff

[smoky quarry]

so you want a caster, that's almost free and also does crazy sub-dps damage

[icy remnant]

TangTang for fire

[smoky quarry]

you're asking for too much

[icy remnant]

Make the supreme chief wear red

But yea they can very easily afford the power budget just looking at TangTang

Being a caster is not that big of a deal there are units like that

It would be judged based on what else they bring

Like susceptibility

[dawn shard]

id say akekuri is the most likely to get replaced for lae first

[smoky quarry]

and for electro team

[icy remnant]

My team assumption doesn’t use Ake

Laev Wulfgard Antal Ardelia

Looking to replace Wulf

Gimme fire Tang

[dawn shard]

oh for that id also assume antal is the first to be replaced

[icy remnant]

[smoky quarry]

Electro support is not on the list yet

maybe in 1.5-1.8

and that's like 6 months from where we currently are

so not happening soon

[icy remnant]

Antals kit is so much better than Wulf
Literally any fire caster should replace Wulf
But yea they’d need to want to release a fire caster

[smoky quarry]

SO MANY LETTERS

Not reading all'at. How much tangtang stacks for 1 rotation and how much it costs?

[icy remnant]

12s cooldown combo

Apply stack

Use the whirlpool from combo to apply susceptibility on skill

And refund SP

[smoky quarry]

just answer the question, please

[icy remnant]

It depends on the rotation but it’s dirt cheap, I don’t know the concrete numbers
Can go look at the excel sheet

I don’t have her

[smoky quarry]

for 2 whirlpulls you get 2 inflictions

that's 22 seconds worth of cd

1 sp for 2 stacks

[potent hornet]

you need two combo skills from tang tang to reach max stacks when you use the battle skill

[smoky quarry]

i accounted that

11s cooldown

if we measure only stack application, wulf is stronger

that's why I am saying, you ain't getting someone better for stacks

[icy remnant]

What

[smoky quarry]

1 sp, 22cs cooldowm, 2 stacks of cryo

[icy remnant]

You realise she refunds SP right it’s not 1 SP

[drifting quest]

wulf stacks way better than tangtang, he just only stacks and does nothing else

tangtang has personal damage and 2 accessible buff brackets

[smoky quarry]

refund sp is fake sp anyway

[icy remnant]

You use that Sp on Ardelia skill then

It’s not fake sp if u don’t need the ult

[summer flicker]

at least cheap sp

it make rotation smoother

[icy remnant]

W Ardelia skill it’s as good as normal SP in every sense

Unless ur using Stanza

And even then she probably has enough Ult regen anyways cus we stack her gear to Narnia

And combo skills every 15s

[smoky quarry]

that was kinda the point I was making

[drifting quest]

you would be right if that is what you said

[icy remnant]

I don’t see how Wulf stacks better

[icy remnant]

In a 1:1 scenario if we make TangTang fire

Tang applies more stacks for cheaper than Wulf