theorycrafting

[mortal trellis]

wait i just realized

is this the same ember dps lisara

oh it is lmao

[ashen hare]

for Last Rite which is btr?

4203 atk with LYNX and 4016 without

shes level 80/90 with 80/90 signature weapon with 6/9, 7/9, 3/4 rn

is there like a calculator spreadsheet somewhere i can use

[chilly raft]

build depend alot in your team

[ashen hare]

what would i need to consider?

[chilly raft]

what is your team combo route

the element damage is more universal

[ashen hare]

whether i have attack buffs?

[chilly raft]

i think i will pick build 2

unless you spam ul all the time

you dont really need that 12%

[ashen hare]

0 buffs the one without lynx slab does around 16% more dmg

i assume if i get P4 the one with lynx slab would be better for better ult uptime

[chilly raft]

hm

still set 2

her Potential upgrade buff ul

but unless you have it

[jagged tiger]

Same

Would pick build 2

But i use the armour that boost ultimate dmg

[chilly raft]

If you min maxing damage
try not to split the buff

[ancient drift]

Can someone try to figure out, why the LR combo skill on this run has so much more dmg then the other run.

On the 455K CS - I’m using the 25% dmg buff, still it shouldn’t give me all that dmg, I’ve tested a lot and it always gave me around 5% total dmg…

On the 298K CS Run, I’ve tested multiple skill and timing orders, just posting this one ‘cause there’s all buffs active.

This happened before, same thing a few days ago, I can’t reproduce though… I thought maybe the UI is glitched and the word Crit is not appearing… Idk

Both CS Dmg

As u can see, same buffs active, besides de food buff on the 455k run

[cinder oxide]

@ancient drift Theres 8 buffs on the left and 9 on the right not sure what it is but there was smth there

[ancient drift]

Food buff

But I tried this same run with the food buff and is not even close to this..

[cinder oxide]

It could be that Gil ult didnt apply in time. Cos I assume her ring starts as a proj and it pauses in the air when u ult. Idk not an expert just throwing at the wall

[ancient drift]

The ult is not the problem, same dmg as always

The problem here is the Combo Skill dmg

[potent hornet]

incorrect, on the boss you have the same buffs not on the character tho

[ancient drift]

Like I said, is the food 25% buff

I’ve tried this run changing the CS’s timming, with and without buffs… Even replicating exactly the same rotation (even the flaws - I’ve missed one animation cancel)…

It probably was a crit dmg, the UI is just not showing… Idk

[hasty grail]

Not the first time lr combo damage being inconsistent was talked about here. I think the conclusion was that she's just bugged?

You can probably find some of the past convos about it, i didnt keep up fully

[ancient drift]

Probably… tested this for hours, but if its a glitch, we need to be able to replicate somehow..

Last time I was a bit weaker, and it gave me 400k - no crit. without food buff… I’ll see if I can find the footage.. I think I’ve deleted…

[frozen tide]

rite is kind of just a buggy char

her bs is also buggy

let alone cs

[ancient drift]

Found it

Screenshot

Video

No food buff on this one..

There’s probably a way to exploit this somehow…

[craggy pond]

i spent 3+ hours the other day working on this and found nothing, we just know that her combo dmg is bugged in some weird ways rn

wasn't able to tell what was the trigger for the glitch nor what actually happened since I can't even replicate the exact number with number crunching alone

[ancient drift]

Idk maybe the time stop of the Xaihi ult together with everything… at the same time… I’ll keep looking into it..

This happens using perlica instead of Gilb as well @craggy pond ?

[craggy pond]

the one i investigated was with gilb

he was hitting 530k with combo no buff

which is physically impossible

[ancient drift]

What if the word Crit is glitched? The numbers match with a crit?

[craggy pond]

i double checked it with someone with perlica as well, but only once

and my calculation was right

so there's nothing wrong with my inputs

[craggy pond]

it's not that either

if it's a crit then you can easily compute the non crit

and it doesn't match the supposed non crit number

[ancient drift]

Crazy

So maybe is Gilb CS the factor… idk

[craggy pond]

the case i investigated was even more bizarre

he was hitting 530k no food no crit, then after food AND crit he hit 420k

same rotation

[ancient drift]

His rotation was similar to mine?

[hasty grail]

Dont think gilb is a factor, seen it happening with perlica instead too

[craggy pond]

you can take a look

#theorycrafting message

the one thing i noticed is it only happened with her combo skill

her ult was fine

[unreal light]

Do you happen to record your runs?

[craggy pond]

i suspect it has something to do with the display itself and not the actual calculation

[ancient drift]

Ok, I was doing something similar to him before, but going behind the boss is so much more easier

[hasty grail]

A viewer from some stream said lr combo was actually multi hits that don't show all the numbers or if it crit properly but idk if they spouting nonsense

[ancient drift]

Always, just posted above…

[craggy pond]

it is a 2 hit but normally they're displayed separately

i was wondering that myself

that what if they squashed the first hit together with the 2nd

[hasty grail]

They said the crit only shows if the small hit crits but doesnt tell you if the big hit crits

[fading fog]

what does shatter damage depend on? AI, character level and atk?

[craggy pond]

atk & arts intensity

it's just a regular dmg multiplier like every other arts reaction

[craggy pond]

i tested it with the small hit critting as well, it's still not quite there

[oak vigil]

I am actually cursed, there is no other way, not 1 but 2 bosses I am having this keep on happening

[craggy pond]

and if the big hit crits then it's too much

wait hold tf on I think i found it?

it'd be super weird if this is true though

[ancient drift]

tell us

[craggy pond]

so her slash dmg consists of the base slash dmg which is 160% and bonus dmg of 240% for each stack

if we only take the 240% portion of the slash

and have it crit

while the 160% doesn't even though it's the same slash

then i got to that exact number

[hasty grail]

So that slash is pretty much 2 hits in one

And the display for it is messed up

[craggy pond]

it doesn't even show crit as well

and that's probably because only a portion of it critted

and not the entire thing

[hasty grail]

That might be what they were referring to, if base slash hit crits it shows crit but if the bonus damage crits it doesnt show crit

[craggy pond]

this still doesn't explain for why his dmg was so low after food & crit but i least i think we solved one of the more confusing ones

[fading fog]

stanza over delivery on gilb in this team right?

[ancient drift]

My no crit CS usually hits like this..

[frozen tide]

Stanza is better unless you need the ult gain to hit a breakpoint

[craggy pond]

@chilly bison we figured out what happened with lr combo now

so that also explains for why some of the crits are so damn low

[spice flame]

I gotta ask something here, What attribute that affect the Ultimate Damage for Laevatain?
I think i build her wrong - somehow

[craggy pond]

because only the 160% base portion critted

but not the bigger 240% * 4

[chilly bison]

then that quite bs or bug

[ancient drift]

makes sense

[chilly bison]

but then

still doesn't make sense

if it crit from base

[craggy pond]

if it crits from the bonus then it doesn't show crit

only when it crits from base

that's why it was so confusing

[chilly bison]

then shouldn't the base crit

also scale of with the 4 stack

[craggy pond]

it's treated as 2 separate hits

even though it's the same slash

the base portion and the bonus

your 530k runs happened because the bonus critted and the base didn't

and thus it didn't show crit and the number was absurdly high for a "non crit"

[frozen tide]

Huh

Interesting

[chilly bison]

so you saying it 2 separate hit but combine + together ?

make sense

lol

[craggy pond]

yes

i knew it has something to do with the inconsistency in the way this game displays dmg

[chilly bison]

that 520k does fit when it actually crit

it weird

why they seprate it into diffirent caculate

[ancient drift]

Makes sense that’s why my CS crit is so low here

[peak void]

are physical dmg bonus and ult dmg bonus in the same bracket

[frozen tide]

Yes

All dmg bonus and dmg dealt bonus are same bracket

[peak void]

weird but ok

[frozen tide]

[unreal light]

It feels like some core debuff had disappeared seconds before you pop up that crit

[frozen tide]

I dint make the game

[ancient drift]

I tried on other runs as well, is not it… Kji figured out

[unreal light]

What happened?

[peak void]

u sho7udl tell them to uhhhhhhh

[unreal light]

To unmake the game

https://tenor.com/view/fjall-arknights-arknights-enfield-endfield-slothlo-gif-2983260977386070254

[peak void]

true

i still dk what gloves to use on endmin

[unreal light]

If you have m3 ulti and <p5 gv, use ult damage

[frozen tide]

https://tenor.com/view/arknights-endfield-arknights-meme-arknights-wtf-endfield-wtf-gif-1386848441340081198

[unreal light]

If you don’t, use aethertech

[peak void]

is it abt the arts intensity having diminishing returns on higher gv pot

[unreal light]

Higher gv pot gives you more phys on passive

And that dilutes ult dmg bonus

[peak void]

actually it gives both now that i looked again

[unreal light]

Yeah

And also crush is free, you don’t need to crown anything to deal damage

[frozen tide]

Miner t2 gloves

🔥

[peak void]

i dont need to crown skill?

i was almost gonna do that

[unreal light]

Yeah

It’s damage is separate from crush

[peak void]

cs is tempting though

[lost void]

Hello, is Xaihi mandatory for both Cryo team?

[frozen tide]

Yes

Absolutely

[unreal light]

Yeah she’s cool

[peak void]

literally

[unreal light]

No one can replace her

[frozen tide]

She is the best cryo unit over last rite

[lost void]

How about in Alesh Estelle?

[frozen tide]

Xaihi is the cryo carry

[lost void]

Cryo has most versatile team now right? They got 3 possible route?

[frozen tide]

Not rly

[peak void]

wait wait

[lost void]

Or is it physical?

[peak void]

so

[frozen tide]

It's shatter for eco or lr

[unreal light]

I’ve done a small spreadsheet on that matter, which shows the difference between ult and arts gloves

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NFENqA35ys5D-qgaC8WLD8JtRC1Km8SDstcR4gFzXxY/edit?usp=drivesdk

[peak void]

arts int + phys dmg on bs

then ult dmg on ult

[frozen tide]

For high investment only real cryo comp is lr

[peak void]

so like you kinda keep the same lvl of phys dmg% for both

[lost void]

So LR is way better than Yvonne?

[frozen tide]

Most variation in comp might still be cryo ig

Since the fillers can be changed

[frozen tide]

Yeah

[chilly bison]

impress how you able to find that way

[lost void]

Hmm how many team variation for phys?

[craggy pond]

it's thanks to @hasty grail

he mentioned sth about small hit critting

[frozen tide]

Uhhh mostly just da pan or endmin

Chen pog lifeng are stays

Ember can be used if you struggle a lot with living

[chilly bison]

small hit criting ?

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-huh-m4rtin-huh-huh-meme-what-cat-gif-5834484041415217257

[craggy pond]

i did experiment with the first ice crystal hit critting but i would have never thought the actual slash is 2 hits combined

[unreal light]

There also are some catchers and stuff

Ardelias Gilbertas

[chilly bison]

I mean, I wouldnt though to, since no ficking game even I see before combine them as 1 single final damge

[frozen tide]

Gilb is just for grouping

Ard is subpar

[unreal light]

True

[frozen tide]

Shatter is mostly for low investment

[unreal light]

But they are still the variations

[frozen tide]

/progression

[unreal light]

Ban shatter

All my homies run pog main dps

[frozen tide]

They should make shatter scale a lil more with intensity

[chilly bison]

well guess I can report this to ticket then

guess they also bugging out why by now

[craggy pond]

it might be intended by them to divide the slash into 2 but that sounds wrong as hell

[chilly bison]

well it literally sound wrong

because it pretty misleading

when no one consider a one single damage is the result combine of 2 diffirent source together

[weak meteor]

just a heads up to people that know about the damage document, i have updated everything and the old document is outdated with better info and better explanation and better wording and better everything

its still the same link

[signal sundial]

is there an optimal time to use coolant gel

or is it when you get sick of clicking and your irl sanity is 0

[peak void]

yes at 7/8 for the first 2 stats

aka the last upg

[signal sundial]

what about the last one

[peak void]

last is 2nd best

[signal sundial]

ah

[peak void]

would rather farm gels there

[signal sundial]

ooo

[peak void]

7/8 is just ass

[signal sundial]

you make a good point

so 7-9 i just gel

[peak void]

oh i mean 8/9

i thought max was 8

8/9 > 3/4 > 7/9

[warm orchid]

im testing a nature team and i found really good synergy, my rotation goes with xaihi skill, flourite skill, xaihi combo, freeze, gil combo, shatter and then repeat, ardelia can also help with suscept, though the vul stacks are just there and since im underlevelled i have no idea what the actual damage will be on full builds but, wdyall think?

[drifting quest]

Do you want the harsh truth or what

[frozen tide]

God bless goat

[weak meteor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/703110102764355684/1407588486181031978/image0.gif

[frozen tide]

😭

[outer ermine]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1052547707350290503/1240108747053994015/ezgif-1-b9d46a23dc.gif

[frozen tide]

Im getting touched

[drifting quest]

Vulnerability refers to all in-game effects that describe “increased damage taken by the target” without being labeled as “Fragile.”

one can dream for fixes

susceptibility also uses vulnerability

1.8 “Susceptibility”
Vulnerability = 1 + Σ Vulnerability Effect
Vulnerability Effect refers to

would be nice if these areas (stagger section included, probably one or two more) got cleaned up too

[signal sundial]

yay i beat survive the gas

totally because i got better and not because bnnuygirl and sheepgirl has essences on theiur weapons

[frozen tide]

Nice

[summer flower]

So what's with those two slashes?

[signal sundial]

haha funnny number

[wet crest]

Wedge or navigator on Yvonne

[summer flower]

Pat pat pat

"Who is good boy"

[weak meteor]

this is from old doc i believe

[drifting quest]

you know

[summer flower]

Vs "Stupid dog! You made me look bad!"

[drifting quest]

thats a good point

[weak meteor]

i renamed it as fragility as it doesnt really have an offcial ingame name and to separate the confusion between that and vulnerable the effect

[drifting quest]

i clicked on the link to the new one but it sent me back to the old one

fixed now

[craggy pond]

yeah the old one was pretty confusing

because there were like 3 separate mentions of vulnerability

and none of the refers to the actual vulnerable in game

[drifting quest]

there's still a few errors on new one though

[weak meteor]

yeah i was kinda rushing thorhg it so i could do some calculations myself for my own convenience but i got confused myself sometimes

[weak meteor]

where

[drifting quest]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19Nk6BEH-FLYpZ6nKVAhAOeYiSBjnf6a0HTNYFbNJ0Ss/edit?tab=t.xeacn84zq953#heading=h.41tn452qvomd
assuming this is the right link

[craggy pond]

personally i just call it dmg taken%

to make it extremely clear

[weak meteor]

yea it is

[craggy pond]

it's cuz us assigning names to these effects actually make it more confusing since they don't actually exist

[weak meteor]

thats true actually

[craggy pond]

the first time i saw fragile i had to scour the entire game to find where that's mentioned

[drifting quest]

1.8 Susceptibility still calls it Vulnerability Effect which while someone like you or I understand the average user will get confused from

1.9 Fragile is just overall confusing for the same purpose. Since it's distinct from 'Fragile' but is listed as Fragility
Though 'Fragile' itself doesn't actually exist in kit yet so maybe it's fine

there was one more i saw

let me find it

Defense section is like fine but there's probably better ways to showcase it than how it's set out, including the negative def modifier (impossible currently so again maybe fine to skip for simplicity)

1.14 Link section 'Combo Damage Boost stacks non-linearly' can be confused with link buffing combo skills

they're all nitpicks or whatnot but like they're the things people tend to complain about 14 times a day

[craggy pond]

also is this part a mistake? Or are you just putting it there for now

because if i read this as a newbie i would confuse this with dmg taken% for sure

[weak meteor]

susceptibility is an official ingame term so it shouldnt be confusing

[craggy pond]

no i mean like the "refers to..." part

because if i'm not wrong they're just explicitly labeled as "... susceptibility"

[drifting quest]

if you click on susceptibility in game it explains it in that way

[weak meteor]

i could give an example

[craggy pond]

so it's just the exact same description as dmg taken%

[drifting quest]

ill grab one in a second i need to test something else for someone

description yes because they work in the same way

but they're distinct non additive bonuses

[weak meteor]

i dont think its too confusing tbh

[weak meteor]

given the example below readers can tell by looking at the listed operator's skills to see susceptibility

[weak meteor]

also ive removed everyhting that isnt in the game atm and ill just update it when it gets added

like the negative defense effect

[drifting quest]

yeah probably easier

[craggy pond]

well ig that part makes sense, i just thought people could mistake increased dmg taken for susceptibility since both sections mentioned it

[drifting quest]

might be nice to have a second doc for said stuff for those interested but for 95+% of people it nice to not be confused

[craggy pond]

it's basically the same as vulnerability in the old doc with multiple sections referencing it

like technically it's right but it can be pretty mind tripping

unless you already know how it works

[weak meteor]

i hope everythings correct and rightly labelled because gonna move on to reactions which is gona hurt me to test

[frozen tide]

Huh

Didn't know yukiaim has a disc

I have one of their mousepads

Ik its odm

But i like the design so idc

[summer flower]

So defense thing is taken from datamining?

Which do we even know if it'll be used? Cause it might be just legacy code from previous game in this engine

[drifting quest]

are you asking if we know if defense modifier in general exists?

or if the negative defense formula in particular

[outer ermine]

when crit fishing isnt enough rng, mf dodge

[daring dove]

P5 Last Rite, what's her best gear set?

Mines nearly at the point where I need to start thinking about crafting her gear.

[drifting quest]

@weak meteor
Plus the whole mention of Xaixi over Xaihi
"Combo skill Stress Testing improved: Hitting an enemy with Cryo Infliction or Solidification also causes the enemy to take Cryo DMG Dealt +10% for 5s. This effect cannot stack."

[lost void]

There's actually too many terms 🙂

[drifting quest]

should just be 3p tidefall still, but just combo damage % chest over aethertech or ult damage chest

Bonekrusha Poncho

[frozen tide]

Bonekrusha helps with speedkill bps

[weak meteor]

fragility is DMG taken% works the same as endmin realspace stasis talent

[drifting quest]

Endmin talent says damage taken

xaihi's says damage dealt

Enemies with attached Originium Crystals suffer Physical DMG Taken +20%.

[frozen tide]

"taking combo dmg dealt"

The "taking"

Can potentially mean smth here

[next plinth]

isn't laevatains EBS during ult supposed to pause ult timer? mine doesnt seem to pause

[frozen tide]

No clue if it actually does just a guess

[drifting quest]

pretty easy to check if we want to be thorough i guess

idt my xaihi has the talent unlocked even

if anyone has like a deto xaihi

[edgy crater]

what?

[frozen tide]

I do

I can hop on in like an hour mayb

[drifting quest]

yeah no rush

[peak void]

rush.

[edgy crater]

testing for what shuo?

[frozen tide]

Dm me an easy way to test if you don't mind

[drifting quest]

xaihi talent

[frozen tide]

Brain no workey rn

[drifting quest]

xaihi talent says
"Combo skill Stress Testing improved: Hitting an enemy with Cryo Infliction or Solidification also causes the enemy to take Cryo DMG Dealt +10% for 5s. This effect cannot stack."

wording hence is confusing since it has both take (damage taken) and deatl (damage dealt) which are separate buff brackets

fixing the damage doc is a nitpick but it helps to know in general for calcing and dilution

[daring dove]

So basically this then?

Maybe chest is wrong.

[drifting quest]

Yeah swap chest for bonekrusha poncho

[daring dove]

Seems kinda crazy to swap & low so many main / sub stats for Combo damage bonus over ult.

But I'm guessing someone has done the calcs.

[frozen tide]

Frontiers is fine but poncho should work out better for bps with him having p5 p5

[daring dove]

My weapon is still P2 RN, but will be P5 before long. Still working on her in the background for now.

[drifting quest]

56.5% stat atk% + less valuable damage%
vs
60.1% stat atk% + more valuable damage%

aethertech being 71.5% stat atk% + situationally valuable or useless damage%

[daring dove]

My bad, I thought she was STR / INT she's STR / Will.

That makes more sense now.

[drifting quest]

this is for p3+
the damage% value flips at p2 or lower

aethertech doesnt change

[frozen tide]

I don't actually know the dmg ratio between ult and cs in 3 3

My guess is that it'd depend on how much first 3 is buffed

[weak meteor]

it does the exact same thing its just worded differently

[drifting quest]

is there testing done

[weak meteor]

yes

[drifting quest]

not saying it isnt but it's guoba who i forwarded the message from

so i assume they tested too

[safe nymph]

is last right better as a solo dps or dual dps with yvonne

[drifting quest]

solo

[safe nymph]

i’m thinking about building up either my phys or last right teams so i have potentially two teams for if they decide to add that type of content

[daring dove]

Last Rite team is stronger rn, but I'd guy that PHY is likely to recieve more characters in the future to buff it. Since it's a whole archtype in of itself.

[drifting quest]

depends on context

[daring dove]

So pick whatever you have better investment in I'd say.

[drifting quest]

lr has the potential to speedrun faster but physical is far more consistent over time

[safe nymph]

is liefang a must have in phys or is a team like pog endmin chen and panda fine

[drifting quest]

required no, really really good yes
without him you are not running both endmin and panda though

[drifting quest]

hold off on artificing for a bit if you (hopefully) havent yet

[summer flower]

Pog endmin chen... I think ember Would work better than panda

Like i don't think you need more than one crush in team

[daring dove]

Yeah I'm not starting that yet, still need to work on her skills & finish a tiny few upgrades on Laevatain before I start artificing LR.

[drifting quest]

i didnt do any lr tc before so i was just following the trend but might be that gear changes

looking at it right now

current trend was based on CN players but like

im trying to follow their logic and it's not really generic

since its speedrun gaming

[daring dove]

Yeah I mean to some extent I am looking to build LR as a speed run nuker. I have my P5 Laevetain as a consistent damage dealer. But I haven't commited to anything just yet.

[summer flower]

Generic info is, if you not worried about operator dying and its DPS, if you don't have ability/resources to artifice, you get stat gear + attack % gear

Purple gear

[drifting quest]

i should specify current rhodagn speedruns

so its not necessarily future proofed well

[summer flower]

Speed run gaming ain't same as regular

[safe nymph]

but liefang over ember i imagine

[summer flower]

Dunno

I heard issues with lifeng

Didnt use lifeng yet

And attack cancel on ember is quite juicy

[drifting quest]

??????????

[heady pine]

lifeng issue is

he's too good

my GOAT

[summer flower]

3.5 or 3.3 sec to get to finisher attack

[drifting quest]

i must ask what issues you have heard with lifeng

that outweigh the

[summer flower]

Slow skills

[drifting quest]

tons of things he provides

[summer flower]

And i didnt use him so i dunno

Don't have it, dunno if its better, heard issue, ember can 3.3/3.5 sec for 25 stagger

That's quite nuts

(without counting gear or sundered)

[daring dove]

Yeah to some extent beyond my Laevatain team, I'm not sure where to go. I also have the makings of a very strong PHY team with Lifing & Ember both being P4, an Pog P2 on my account. Problem is I'm so resource constrained rn that I don't think I'll be touching PHY team until the middle of next month if I'm lucky.

[drifting quest]

optimal phys really does not want ember fwiw

to both of you

[summer flower]

Okay, and what's optimal phys these days?

[drifting quest]

lifeng chen pog endmin

[summer flower]

I remember when optimal team had panda instead of endmin

[crude crag]

so can last rite

[drifting quest]

new rotations optimized

dapan is really close tbf

[summer flower]

Nice

[drifting quest]

endmin just has a higher ceiling with minmaxxed rotation and highest investment

[daring dove]

Heard Ember has some nice techs with Sundered Prince, also offers nice sustain. I'm thinking in a whale comp she might make the cut but still a bit TBC on that one.

[summer flower]

Yea, no... It was completly sure to be panda best, like don't invest in endming

Then it went to panda a bit better,

[next plinth]

believe endmin will pull ahead even further in the future with more free potentials

[summer flower]

Then this

Too much shift

[drifting quest]

its giga skill ceiling to be a decent amount worse

[next plinth]

they are about equal to p5 panda at p2 right?

[drifting quest]

the more whaled it is the worse ember gets

since lifeng pots, pog p4 are so good

[summer flower]

Techs? You rememeber them? Maybe you know something i didnt Heard yet

[drifting quest]

depends, pretty easy to get do nothing pots, or get pots so late both get ousted

[heady pine]

both of them are prob benched by then but yea

[summer flower]

I Heard panda was even without potentials better than endming

[heady pine]

the f

[summer flower]

But yea it was soo much shift

Too much to be comfortable when nothing new came out

And its not like something creazy was discovered

[next plinth]

surely they wont abandon our mc like all the other gacha games

[daring dove]

Basically just dash / animation cancels that make her the best stagger enabler in the game. Since she has some long strings in her attack combo's.

[dire fractal]

this mf lied, p4 minimum required

blood and sweat and tears spent for the Ultimate Weaponry trimmed, i can finally rest

[drifting quest]

lowest invest (e.g. story) > endmin
low - mid invest (e.g. early endgame) > dapan, especially with potentials
higher invest > roughly even
highest invest > endmin

[summer flower]

Endmin is currently considered better at high investment than panda

P2 endmin > p5 panda

[next plinth]

yeah, thats what i remember. so investing in panda seems like a bad idea as endmin will get more free potentials in the future

[daring dove]

Panda's a meme character always has been.

[summer flower]

It went from "why you even building endmin if you have panda "

To endmin better

[safe nymph]

i’m assuming endmin is main dps since they have crush

[summer flower]

Meanwhile comparision is done on p2 and p5

[drifting quest]

again its

highest levels of investment

masteries, essence, artificing

plus a new rotation no one had been doing

[summer flower]

Vunl vunl vunl vunl crush?

[modest thorn]

whats the bottom right silver one?

[drifting quest]

4/3/4

breach crush crush

[next plinth]

is it the one in ianas sheet?

[drifting quest]

obviously there will have been people doing it

[frozen tide]

gets a bit confusing cause weapons unlike chars start p1 from first copy

[drifting quest]

when i say no one im referring to wider community

[next plinth]

was there any other end game content available in the beta?

[summer flower]

My point it was avaible from start, every piece of puzzle

[daring dove]

I'm thinking this is where Ember will finally get good, Sundered Prince. CR + ATK set. Artificing I reckon she'll be spamming 60k normals. But the level of investment is one practically nobody has reached yet.

[ocean hawk]

can I keep sticking with dapan if i touch no masteries ?

[summer flower]

And it changed do much

Without new piece of puzzle

[next plinth]

iirc that rotation used ults in the first part, which doesnt seem viable for umbral monument

[summer flower]

Without anything major discovered

[drifting quest]

i can tell you it is not good relative to the better physical teams
it will be good enough if you want to use ember (phys can 3op anyway)
use what you want

[frozen tide]

dont believe the sheet ever said endmin is useless

[outer ermine]

do we have any footage of gil buffing lr cs yet, i know yz was fishing for it like a week ago but never got the timing iirc

[heady pine]

sure but hopefully you have p5

[frozen tide]

always had endmin listed as a viable option for high invest

[summer flower]

And even now, comparision where its said its on max investment, is measuring on different potential level

[frozen tide]

tho it favored panda more

in former editions

[ocean hawk]

well, Soon (tm)

[summer flower]

Ambigious wording

I have no idea of knowing if meaning was as its claimed now

Or it was adjusted post fact

[frozen tide]

i dont remember the sheet word for word

[summer flower]

Unclear wording makes it such situation

[daring dove]

I don't think anyone's really done the investment properly yet to say for sure. Or done the calcs either, but I could be wrong.

[frozen tide]

but i remember taking it as that endmin is about equal at high invest with flawless cycling

[drifting quest]

calcs have been done to what degree was required

[summer flower]

"advantages" was equaled to "better" and "not far off" was claimed as not indication of being small amount worse

[drifting quest]

do you want me to go backsearch messages where i said the exact things

[amber vapor]

Average daily tc semantics argument

[summer flower]

Yea

[drifting quest]

it pmo

[summer flower]

Semantics

[drifting quest]

needlessly obtuse arguments

squabbles and shit

the second i find another active tc discord im jumping ship

[modest thorn]

this is what theorycrafting was made for

[safe nymph]

bro i’m just wondering at complete max investment on lae what gear does what cause i have both her lynx kits and hot work kits maxed but no idea which i should be running

[summer flower]

Okay, so what part of those pointers you disagree with?

[drifting quest]

and i know a bunch of others plan to too

[summer flower]

Like do you think advantages = better

[drifting quest]

depends on cotent and your preference

[frozen tide]

advantages mean certain things are better

[ocean hawk]

to make life easier, just view all theorycrafting the same as all other meta sites........

[amber vapor]

As shuo said it's content and preferential

[summer flower]

Do you think "not far off" is completly neutral?

[frozen tide]

how much that advantage translates to overall performance is a bit ambiguous

[summer flower]

But doesnt imply overall it Has to be better

[frozen tide]

which i think is fine since he wasnt too sure at that point

[summer flower]

Yes my point

Ambigious

Like i had read it way as if it was written to be accurate

[safe nymph]

they feel similar ish it’s just one feels like the ult basics are weaker with much higher skill burst but the others out basics are much higher with less skill burst so i guess i’ll keep swapping between the two

[amber vapor]

I never saw anyone outright state that Panda is objectively better than Endmin fwiw

[summer flower]

Week or 3 weeks ago

Old news by now

Quite

[amber vapor]

Yeah that's my point

[frozen tide]

guides try to provide the best supported steps to take with compiled knowledge of what has been calculated and tested amongst the community

[crude crag]

pity the panda is gender locked as a dude

[summer flower]

Okay, section with content that was my contention was deprecated

Good

[amber vapor]

Gotta have one gacha that actually has a decent M:F ratio tbf

[summer flower]

Also i think i was doing naturally like 3/4/3 or something like that for rotation

[daring dove]

Is it just me or does the sanity to T-Credit conversion seem like a bit of a rip-off rn 80 sanity for 34k T-Cred?

[noble tapir]

I think Endmin's current ceiling is higher than panda, and endmin's future ceiling is likely a significant amount higher because endmin dupes have been impactful so far and he/she gets 3 more down the road

[noble tapir]

Oh it's attrocious

[frozen tide]

i only run 1 team so i just never run out of creds

always out of other stuff much before t creds

😭

[noble tapir]

I juiced my Laev and now I'm building physical. Physical is fucking expensive man

[daring dove]

Endmin is going to end up the strongest character we currently have that goes without saying. Maybe only Ardelia or GIlberta will be close. The problem I have though with this logic is it could be 2 more years before he gets another potential for all we know.

Game could be completely different then.

An Endmin could be great compared to the current roster but bad compared to the characters of the time.

[drifting quest]

this seems

how do we word it

bold

quite bold

[woeful plume]

the strongest character and his p3 is just 8 agility

[noble tapir]

Sure, but that's why I also said I think Endmin's current ceiling is also higher than pan, not just future endmin

[drifting quest]

p3 being just stats, p4 being ult cost down

2 nothingburger pots

[modest thorn]

im gonna go out on a limb and say catcher is better than endmin

[heady pine]

p5 - turn all physical dmg into aether dmg

first aether dps

mask off endmin

[summer flower]

Okay, and what's expected amount of pulls to get panda p5

[modest thorn]

uh thats a very hard question

[summer flower]

Yea... Do you expect average player to have panda p5?

[warm galleon]

I have all 5star p5 except Xaihi at p3

[woeful plume]

5 to 500

[summer flower]

Expected

Mean amount of pulls to happen

[woeful plume]

my panda highkey almost p5

[daring dove]

I got every single 5* operator P5 before I got P5 Panda, so in my case it was hundreds of pulls.

[summer flower]

I don't have lifeng

[frozen tide]

is 500 even guaranteed

[summer flower]

Ohh wait panda is 5*?

[crude crag]

i would be glad if there is a fat waifu panda to sit on me

[noble tapir]

I have wulf perlica and snowshine p5, rest are various

[woeful plume]

no at that point i just hope you get it

[frozen tide]

lmao fair

[woeful plume]

its crazy that this game doesnt have 5* rateups

[daring dove]

Yeah Panda isn't supposed to be that rare, it's all just luck.

[frozen tide]

i have every p5 5 star except avy and wulf

[crude crag]

were there female panda in arknights?

[daring dove]

For me I had P5 Laevatain before P5 Panda.

[frozen tide]

thank the lord i use neither

[frozen tide]

yes!

they were mostly human tho

with panda features

as opposed to

da pan

[crude crag]

r they fat?

[frozen tide]

who is just a big ahh panda

[summer flower]

guaranteed p2 vs pull to get p5

[frozen tide]

shes "fat" in some ways

[crude crag]

that is a panda?

[summer flower]

is that fair comparision?

[crude crag]

where is all the fur?

[summer flower]

female so less furry

[frozen tide]

😭

[crude crag]

not for some games

[frozen tide]

get him away from the zoo

put a restraining order in

1000 miles away from any animals

at all time

[summer flower]

but what if they work there already

[daring dove]

Da Pan is a gag character, kinda like Chen but on turned up to 11 I don't like him personally but I hate most male characters in this game.

[frozen tide]

do you happen to hate most male chars in every gacha

[daring dove]

Maybe

[summer flower]

f2p so far maybe gonna go dolphin if i have left over funds when paycheck comes

panda at p2

[frozen tide]

perhaps...

nvm

i fw male endmin

[summer flower]

yea right, definetly i should been ignoring endmin and building panda

[safe nymph]

wall of text on the physical page

[frozen tide]

seems like a chill kind dude

while being very much capable

i cant stand crybaby chars that get carried

[frozen tide]

that is correct

[daring dove]

I do have a theory about Catcher though, he's kinda like Shadow in "The Eminence in Shadow". Tried his best to look plain & unimportant when really he's the guy you meet when you need to disappear.

[summer flower]

i dont think they are called like that in game

ohh man, i can manipulate combo que?

that's pretty decent knowledge i can reverse order

[daring dove]

This is BiS folr her right?

Since I'mma start building my Last Rite team soon, need to make sure everyone has their optimal weapons.

[crude crag]

depends, for cyro team or any team?

[daring dove]

Line below answered that

[crude crag]

nope, not BiS for her

[summer flower]

i saw monaihe and i was like nice, then i remebered that its secondary stat that matters

[daring dove]

Why because she's unlikely to trigger healing?

[edgy crater]

u dont need to care bout her healing

[summer flower]

stanza for nature would slap

[edgy crater]

shess medic/supporter n better focus on supporter side

[summer flower]

INT +attack% for non ice

[crude crag]

nope, barely heal much

worse than ardelia tbh

[edgy crater]

dats why i said focus on supporter side bruh

[crude crag]

she is more of a dmg buffer

[summer flower]

isnt ardelia best medic?

[edgy crater]

by ingame definition, shes count as medic for dat hp treatment tag

[crude crag]

inefficient, need to run to dolly to get healed

[summer flower]

okay, who is best medic then?

[frozen tide]

best medic might unironically be ember

[summer flower]

i dont think that's true

[crude crag]

snowshine if u r playing cyro team

[summer flower]

i have seen heal amounts

[frozen tide]

shield prevents dmg

[daring dove]

I'm asking why it's not a better buff than Stanza still it provides more ATK.

[summer flower]

i didnt update snowshine, but you might be correct

[crude crag]

yes heal amounts but like i said u need to run to dolly to get healed

[summer flower]

shield aint heal

[frozen tide]

shield makes it so you have to heal less

works in purpose of a medic i feel

[crude crag]

who said anything about shield, snowshine has combo heal

[summer flower]

ember shield i assume

[summer flower]

yea combo heal is so nice

[crude crag]

ya ember heals as well but u need to get hit first

[summer flower]

yea, but amounts are so low compared to ardelia

[crude crag]

ya, u do not need to run to dolly to get healed

[edgy crater]

oh, bout dat, yeah nah, deto better for her as 2nd attribute bonus

[crude crag]

ya but like i said u need to RUN TO DOLLY TO GET HEALED

[summer flower]

ember amounts compared to ardelia

[edgy crater]

im sure the cd like 40ish something

[crude crag]

im not gonna run to dolly to get healed when i use my last rite for final strike combo btw

[summer flower]

when talking in heals recived i think ardelia might be strongest

[frozen tide]

stacking susc is also in your favor for rite

[summer flower]

in raw HP recovered

[frozen tide]

since her talent makes her multiply it

[crude crag]

imagine delaying 3 sec combo just for a heal lol

[summer flower]

imagine not taking into account time to heal

[modest thorn]

are dolly's that hard to touch?

[summer flower]

you lose basic attacks

[summer flower]

if you ranged them maybe?

for melee they easy

[modest thorn]

i thought last rite was still really close

[crude crag]

snowshine not only can heal, she can negate arts infliction....and 90% dmg reduction from protection....and parry

[frozen tide]

to touch all 3 you usually have to make compromises

[edgy crater]

yeah, snowshine combos cd is 24s, not gonna call her good medic for sure

[frozen tide]

close to who

[modest thorn]

to the boss

[summer flower]

i'm talking healing, not survivability

[crude crag]

tbh u barely need her 24s heal if u use her for parry

[crude crag]

still heals more and efficient

[edgy crater]

p2 ardel solve dat issue

[crude crag]

i do not need to run around to get dolly for heals if i have snowshine

[summer flower]

does she? dunno, she has cap on healing done

[crude crag]

i just press E 1 time to get healed, also the heals has regen

[summer flower]

for ardelia you can just pump sp into more healing

[crude crag]

yea whatever, u do u, u like to run around for heals be my guest lol

[edgy crater]

u can spam ardel ulti

[outer ermine]

huh ig that works as low skill option

[crude crag]

ardel ulti can heal?

[modest thorn]

its a very good heal

[summer flower]

isnt that high investment gear required

[summer flower]

yes, same as BS

[noble tapir]

ardel ulti drops many sheep

[modest thorn]

i don't think it is for the breakpoints

[daring dove]

Maxed out Ardelia full heals entire team every burst.

Can't get much stronger than that.

[summer flower]

yea

[crude crag]

still have to run around to touch dolly to get healed >.>

[edgy crater]

not really

[modest thorn]

i mean tbf as long as ur not against rhodagn you're gonna be running around into the dollys

[edgy crater]

when eyja ulti, ur entire party will at least got 1 dollies lol

[modest thorn]

even still i think rhodagn moves a lil

[crude crag]

nah, i still feel snowshine is much better medic

[modest thorn]

and you can dash to dodge into a dolly

👍

[summer flower]

this

[modest thorn]

at least i don't think you play lr without dodging?

[crude crag]

i aint running around like a dog to get healed, i rather stand there and get my dog to heal me

[modest thorn]

i dont play her so idk if she just stands still

[summer flower]

worse than ardelia, meanwhile ardealia best at healing there is

[daring dove]

P2/P3 make it so you get more Dollys an just by touching them with the controller character you're healing the entire team. It's not a big ask to be honest.

[edgy crater]

u clearly never try ardel ulti

[crude crag]

if u guys like to run around, be my guest, everyone has their own playstyle, im not gonna judge

[edgy crater]

even if u stand still, her ulti will heal ur entire team

[summer flower]

you playing ranged operator?

[crude crag]

i tried, unimpressed

[crude crag]

me?

[summer flower]

yes

you

[edgy crater]

snowshine more unimpressive lol

[outer ermine]

there is an arclight in my screen peaking almost 37s on b&a w lr

[crude crag]

ya im using last rite

[tight haven]

just dont get hit pepela

[summer flower]

THAT EXPLAINS IT

[modest thorn]

damn

[summer flower]

why you didnt told that before

[crude crag]

explains what

[modest thorn]

i think they did

[summer flower]

MAN I WAS EVEN WRITING THAT FOR RANGED ITS FAR

[crude crag]

oh

tbh if i get yvonne i would still use snowshine as medic

[summer flower]

yvonne is ice

[edgy crater]

24s medic vs 1 rotation ulti

[crude crag]

no, yvonne is cyro

[summer flower]

cryo is ice

[edgy crater]

[crude crag]

cyro

[modest thorn]

💀

[crude crag]

yea, i see no ice in it

[summer flower]

Frost is a layer of ice on a solid surface

[crude crag]

u get ice when u freeze water

[summer flower]

from google

[crude crag]

that is alot of difference

[modest thorn]

i've checked in on tc twice now and theres been two semantics debates

[summer flower]

ITS BOTH ICE

[crude crag]

no, its cyro

ice is frozen water

[summer flower]

Cryo- is from the Ancient Greek κρύος (krúos, “ice, icy cold, chill, frost”). Uses of the prefix Cryo- include:

[crude crag]

yea they never mention ice

[crude crag]

still cyro

[summer flower]

and what it means then?

[crude crag]

means its cyro

i feel ardelia is more for nature team, but we lack 6* dps nature operator now

[tight haven]

idk im pretty sure its cryo

[crude crag]

then again its pointless to build a 2nd team now, since content can only be cleared with 1 team

boring game

[safe nymph]

yeah they need to add more feels a bit empty

[modest thorn]

yeah fr the game has been out for so long already why isn't there more content yet

[crude crag]

game gonna die soon if the devs does not buck up

[crude crag]

march should be 1.1, after yvonne banner

[safe nymph]

i get on do dailies then stock stuff then get off

[modest thorn]

did you finish all other content already?

[safe nymph]

yes

[outer ermine]

autoing on range just to creep forward was nice touch ngl i fucking hate that steam wall

[daring dove]

Last Rite is starting to look decent still a long way to go though, I haven't even broken 5K ATK yet.

[modest thorn]

damn how much playtime do you have?

[safe nymph]

no idea i’m
gonna guess like 50 hours?

maybe 100? not totally sure

somewhere in that range

[outer ermine]

https://tenor.com/view/mundo-drmundo-aloisnl-business-mundo-push-gif-2079566710631476790

[modest thorn]

sion better 🥱

[tight haven]

i just hope whatever they add has some replayability to it

i don't mind waiting for 1.1 for more stuff as long as it's fun, though i wish they'd prepared more for launch

[modest thorn]

if they add leaderboards i'll be so happy

[safe nymph]

that would be cool

like time leaderboards for bosses

[modest thorn]

yeah plus it makes whales want to whale more

so its a win win 🔥

[outer ermine]

itll be a, find a pilot w good hands and lots of time contest

[tight haven]

@dire dragon only past pot4 on laev; using 2 redeemer seals only gets better with weapon pots too

[summer flower]

ehh....

[summer flower]

that would be against tos

[tight haven]

someone did rough calcs here

[outer ermine]

bro has not seen bilibili runs

if my friend would just touch this game too

[edgy crater]

is dat for sub 10 run?

[summer flower]

for who it is?

[modest thorn]

damn all im getting is 50% more damage

[outer ermine]

for alot of runs

[edgy crater]

[summer flower]

also, it doesnt show nice picture i think

[outer ermine]

cns just passing around accs so they can do this runs

[elder skiff]

someone asked him in the gacha flex channel

[outer ermine]

got the hands and acc but not enuf time to grind

[modest thorn]

oh wait i misread, im doing 88% more damage

[drifting quest]

@weak meteor
Xaihi Combo is Damage Taken you're right, took a while to confirm it but it's additive with deto unit.
But 1.1 Base Attack section seems to be including Attribute Bonus an extra time
Base Attack = Damage Multiplier × (Attribute Bonus + Attack Power)
Att Bonus shouldn't be here, unless I'm missing something

[safe nymph]

so it seems the slabs are ever so slightly better than the hot work …

but about the same

[summer flower]

i dont think base attack is correct term for that

shouldnt it be base damage?

also what?

[drifting quest]

the section as a whole is a bit off right now

[safe nymph]

and seems like the ultimate gain set is only exclusive to p5 lae

[summer flower]

i dont wanna stuff like vunl keyword used for what's not vunl

[chilly bolt]

Speaking of atk how is stanza atk buff compared to gil sig arts amp?

[rare nimbus]

im about to start artificing gear for Yvonne but before i do i just wanna make sure that there isnt something else I can have inplace of the 4th piece or if having all 4 MI pieces is BiS for her

[summer flower]

ohhh boy....

[drifting quest]

it isnt anymore

[rare nimbus]

oh no...

[summer flower]

i was using past situation as example to what i hope be happening

[elder skiff]

i use my tide chest for my p1 yv*nne so idrk p0 rotations

[summer flower]

people will tell you crit set isnt correct set

i say it makes sense to use it but i dont have yvonne

[modest thorn]

maxed stanza is about equal to p1 delivery

[summer flower]

same people that'll say crit set is bad

will be praising sets with 15% attack on them

crit set stacked has more attack %

[rare nimbus]

but last time i asked about the set I was told its really the only set that suites her for now

[modest thorn]

but if ur running a team with lots of lifts then delivery is always better

[safe nymph]

that’s wild

[summer flower]

O.O at what hour?

[modest thorn]

ok maybe closer to p0 delivery but its close if you have the lift from her combo

[rare nimbus]

this was a few days ago

[summer flower]

i would say select crit pieces that have good attributes

[modest thorn]

i just run stanza cause laevatain's sig bled me dry

[summer flower]

maybe slab as 4th? but dont take my words as truth and dogma, i dont have yvonne yet (slab is main attribute accessory)

wait for other people responses

[foggy birch]

Guys for laevtain, slab or tidefall armor?

[summer flower]

ohhh

[valid zealot]

Tidefall.

[summer flower]

okay, yea you see, they were insulti throwing on yvonne for using that set XD

[modest thorn]

isn't slab a kit?

[summer flower]

kit yea, accessory same thing

[valid zealot]

Hot work + slab or hot work + tide fall.

[daring dove]

Stanza is likely default better than P0 delivery anyway, it's only really when you're going for potentials on delivery that it becomes worth it.

[summer flower]

or is accessory keyword?

[modest thorn]

ye i mean like why are comparing armor to a kit

[chilly bolt]

But like, how good is +%atk in this economy, you want to have more different types of modifier than stacking one type right? And there is less source for +%atk than arts susc so lets say i also run ardelia who also applies arts susc then wouldn't it become a disminishing return to use gil sig

[modest thorn]

i believe its additive

[summer flower]

?

[summer flower]

+% is additive

if purple gear was possible to artifice i would be running purple gear only

[chilly bolt]

Additive with arts susc?

[summer flower]

no, multiplicative with arts suscs

having 10% both is better than 20% one

[chilly bolt]

Yeah then wouldn't it better to have +atk to multiply it

That's what im saying

Im trying to justify skipping gil sig

[elder skiff]

if you have 100% atk and 120% arts susc then 20% atk would be more efficient since they are different multipliers, so stanza r5 might makes gil buff more than delivery r5 but I don’t really trust this since it sounds kinda sus

• you only pull gil sig for the ult gain

[summer flower]

stanza is different element

[bitter cove]

are u implying gil sig has art susc or am i missunderstanding it

[summer flower]

doesnt apply to same

[chilly bolt]

Doesn't it?

[summer flower]

okay, think about it like this

You got X

X works

[bitter cove]

gil sig is arts dmg dealt buff
different than arts susc which is a debuff

[summer flower]

then you can indeed skip Y as long as you wont need X on someone in team with them

[craggy pond]

gil's sig is dmg%

[summer flower]

think how likely you are to need both passives

[craggy pond]

which is an ultra diluted multiplier

[elder skiff]

does it really matter that it doesn’t work in one team but work in like several other teams and work better than most arts units?

[modest thorn]

i will say tho the ult regen on delivery is really nice...

[craggy pond]

compared to atk%, atk% is a far more valuable asset

[elder skiff]

• who’s gonna be the nature dps and does their value justify not using stanza

[chilly bolt]

Man i need to know how to tell which is which

[valid zealot]

Which

[modest thorn]

i would assume gilb would fit snugly with other nature units possibly applying lifted

[craggy pond]

one is only susceptibility if it explicitly states so

[chilly bolt]

Like fragile, susceptibility, dmg dealt all that stuff

[summer flower]

stanza on xaihi on nature team would slap

[craggy pond]

it's probably the easiest one to recognize

[valid zealot]

Yeah

[elder skiff]

xaihi can’t apply nature

only amp

[craggy pond]

fragile is just a name we give to dmg taken% technically

it's not an actual term

[valid zealot]

Susc is susc if it is written as "susceptibility"

[craggy pond]

that's why i call it dmg taken% for clarity

[summer flower]

its when ulitmate is cast different element gainst attack %

[drifting quest]

fragile might get dropped too

[valid zealot]

They literally have their own highlights and tooltips ingame

[summer flower]

and amp is cryo /nature

[drifting quest]

because fragile is an actual effect too

[chilly bolt]

Fragile was used in ak so im more familiar with it

[drifting quest]

welcome to theorycrafting

[summer flower]

ohh right

[elder skiff]

you have to use her bs and cs to get her ult which will mess with the nature stacks

[drifting quest]

its something i already mentioned

[valid zealot]

Did iana start working on new dmg calc doc.

[summer flower]

.....

[valid zealot]

[summer flower]

how will it mess with it

[modest thorn]

nature stack + other affliction = boom

[elder skiff]

it eats up all the stacks…

[summer flower]

do we have nature that uses even stacks?

[elder skiff]

every dps depends on the stacks

[summer flower]

i have not seen nature eating stacks of nature for dmg yet

[valid zealot]

Corrosion

Which is def down.

[summer flower]

that's debuf

[chilly bolt]

So, for now there are 2 things susceptibility and dmg amp?

[summer flower]

but it aint crush

[elder skiff]

wasn’t your initial argument assume nature dps since you’re talking about stanza not being able to use on same element for gilberta

[valid zealot]

Yeah, it's nature reaction.

Breach is physical reaction

[elder skiff]

most dps uses stacks so it’s safe to assume nature will be the same

[craggy pond]

wdym, like the types of multipliers? There're way more than that

[valid zealot]

I can list from the top of my head at least 5

[summer flower]

no?

[next helm]

[summer flower]

its about xaihi nature amp with stanza attack %

with int being stat on stanza

[chilly bolt]

i really need to reread the stuff again...

[craggy pond]

if we're counting every multiplier there're like more than 10

[valid zealot]

Also if the doc is correct dmg dealt% and amp% are two separate multipliers.

[craggy pond]

but some are more prevalent

[craggy pond]

they're separate yes

[elder skiff]

no xaihi mentioned prior to the ‘stanza only applies to diff ele’

[valid zealot]

[craggy pond]

amp is explicitly stated as _ amp

[elder skiff]

it was all about gilb

[valid zealot]

Its own keyword for a reason aye.

[summer flower]

it was regarding skipping gilb sig

topic started by different user

i have tried to start topic of xaihi stanza + nature dps before but it didnt start off at all

[bitter cove]

just use det unit instead of stanza on nature comp using gil
trust

[modest thorn]

i just run jiminy 12 or smth

i think thats the number

[summer flower]

xaihi amp looks juicy

also i have xaihi more built

[craggy pond]

the main 2 that cause confusion were dmg% & dmg taken% since i saw some people thinking they're additive

but the rest are straightforward

[bitter cove]

use both
then we have access to corrosion

-res enemy = more dmg

[modest thorn]

bis for gilberta

[craggy pond]

if it's amp then it'll explicitly say amp and same for susceptibility

[summer flower]

both sounds fine

[bitter cove]

flourite for infliction stacking

[elder skiff]

when did this happen

like several days ago?

[daring dove]

There's no way anything but sig is BiS for Gilberta, but only when you chase potentials on it. Otherwise you have tons of options.

Ult gain + upto 61% DMG bonus.

[bitter cove]

let the f2ps cope
they dont have the privilage to get all sig unless unreal amount of luck

[craggy pond]

i mean honestly even then stanza can shine in certain situations

because stanza doesn't serve as a replacement per se

[elder skiff]

arts dmg bonus is in everyone’s kits though so it’s gonna be heavily fluctuated unlike atk%

[craggy pond]

it's an alternative

for a different playstyle

[summer flower]

Almost hour ago

[modest thorn]

my f2p friend got delivery guaranteed p5 and gilberta p5 (f2p btw)

[drifting quest]

even p5 sig can lose to alternatives

[chilly bolt]

Ok honestly i just need a good example of how to tell if something is fragile, since amp and susceptibility are specifically mentioned in game text

Hope i get it right

[craggy pond]

again fragile is currently the term we use to call dmg taken%

[summer flower]

Ohh that was fast

[craggy pond]

take breach, electrification

[daring dove]

Not with the correct assumptions that you hit higher break points an can use ult more.

[craggy pond]

ardelia sig

detonation unit

you name it

[drifting quest]

yes p0 sig beats all alternatives if you require the ult gain, but p5 sig can lose to most alternatives if you do not require the ult gain

[chilly bolt]

Ah so literally dmg amp but is not amplification

[drifting quest]

there is some tech with dps gilb double slab stuff too for sig but thats not the sort of thing i want to comment on because people will miscontrue the build

[summer flower]

Is arts DMG multiplicative with arts related stat?

[modest thorn]

i want to run dps gilb

[craggy pond]

amp is strictly called amp, there're only a few sources of it rn

xaihi, antal

only when it says amp then it goes to the amp multiplier

[valid zealot]

Phys art unit when

[chilly bolt]

Man i want the old ak dmg formula back, this game is too much

[craggy pond]

ider the terms used in ak, only bits & pieces

it's been years

[summer flower]

here armor on rhoagadan is same on every difficulty

[valid zealot]

Sea peeps check daily store please.

[summer flower]

therefore i doubt there is gonna be armor debuf

[chilly bolt]

What's up

[summer flower]

at least not any time soon

[valid zealot]

Nothing I want to know whats in it today

[daring dove]

I'd say P5 Gilberta only serves increase sigs value as well since you start approaching 80% uptime on it passively. But obviously outside of Sig uptime Gilberta's P5 is pretty low value.

[modest thorn]

i heard someone say you can run gilb as a decent dps

[drifting quest]

issue is that a lot of teams just do not care if you have 80% uptime if they only want to buff specific things

[edgy crater]

sundering steel on shop

[summer flower]

so... what happens when nature goes onto cryo affiction?

[drifting quest]

corrosion

[summer flower]

so its not like xaihi messes with corrosion, its just about order of application?

[craggy pond]

the reaction is dictated by the latter infliction and its level is by the former

[valid zealot]

Sundering

[drifting quest]

nature first cryo second would be solidification

[summer flower]

sundering

[drifting quest]

issue is when you want inflictions, not reactions

[edgy crater]

[summer flower]

ohh

thanks

[edgy crater]

dats too tempting lol

[valid zealot]

I burnt my entire sht on mb feels bad man.

[craggy pond]

well it would be an issue if we get a nature infliction consumer