pvp-arena

[humble frost]

I got Tmoron and Scarlet now, who to replace?

[fathom rock]

You can't give them higher for their general use case, I can't seperate that tl, I gotta deal what I'm given man...

[tropic summit]

well for scarlet i've bad news... for le moron i've good news

[hollow lagoon]

liter better for wipes, but worse for indoms/stalls, wipes are less threatening

[fathom rock]

Scarlet prolly not used
Moran can use anywhere with fast team where she burst

[humble frost]

i built scarelet for nothing?

[tropic summit]

for attack teams she's fine

here you go

[hollow lagoon]

use her strategically, use her for defense and get punished

[fathom rock]

Yeah yeah but can't slot her higher there and running rrh b1 + Ada is crazy demanding

[tropic summit]

sacc scarlet or scar-rosa can still do something

[tropic summit]

SWHA mitigates RRH slotting a lot

[humble frost]

who to put quantum on? I have only 4 slots

[swift mango]

She is fine is same team with Rosa. Or Indom. Or if you know your opponent don't have label built.

[tropic summit]

jackal and centi only, rest don't need

[fathom rock]

Great my ear isn't working

[hollow lagoon]

in general sense still more threatening than liter, if we talk non situationally, peopel have stronger rapi than liter and cp counts for things as per @tropic summit says

[tropic summit]

what have you done

[vapid dagger]

I wonder how they utilized Minecraft in the context of engineering

[swift mango]

Don't worry you won't need your ear to make tl

[tropic summit]

probably something with red stone, with that thing people built some weird complex stuff

[fathom rock]

It does but not as threatening as A to push up there unless make an entire tier for rrh which is crazy who else would join her

[tropic summit]

yeah the whel would know best

[tropic summit]

not to make your life harder, but RRH is actually moran hard counter

she can 1shot her assuming no invulnerability

[hollow lagoon]

the hint is liter dont belong on that tier

[fathom rock]

You think I don't know that? I do it all the time

[tropic summit]

[vapid dagger]

Yeah, that’s the only thing I could think of. The constructive part couldn’t really work due to the lack of gravity for most blocks

[tropic summit]

retro i care about your health, drop that TL

just pass it over to some other MA that you can sacrifice

wait i know a pvp MA in this chat

Starts with R and ends with Osy

~~sometimes ~~i see him workin'

[fathom rock]

This isnt even MA job
Passing the depression onto another is crazy too

[tropic summit]

[fathom rock]

You wanna lower the entire tl to make room for rrh 1?

[glad meteor]

Yanadayneko, Rapunzel he comes with many names

[hollow lagoon]

you can put rrh b1 in B if u slot liter there, other wise by consider xmica, who offers debuff cancel, burst gen, attack buff, should not be in the same tier as a unit that only provides a 5 sec buff

[glad meteor]

Tier list doesnt need to be perfect. Just make it noob friendly

[tropic summit]

5s buff is enough situationa- oh nvm we don't talk about that

[hollow lagoon]

[glad meteor]

If people want to mald pvp. Then thats upto them to learn units

[fathom rock]

That 5s buff is big for nukes tho
The point is to grant general idea of who to pvp invest no more no less it's not that deep....

[tropic summit]

look at this filth pve g0on @hollow lagoon

spoken like a true pve go0n

[glad meteor]

[hollow lagoon]

when u see nuke, its just bay/noah/indom it, its not threatening anymore

[fathom rock]

I have suggested making a seperate guide on pvp to resolve the team build matter since current one is more outdated than my grand grandparent

[tropic summit]

nice typo x2

[glad meteor]

Brings lib to cut bay

[tropic summit]

https://klipy.com/gifs/skofqq-9

[fathom rock]

But then again I need to be done with this first
Oh the misery

[tropic summit]

[glad meteor]

Emma propaganda

[fathom rock]

If I take down liter 1 tier she beats every other b1 down there but pascal and neon

[tropic summit]

all because those silly pvp go0ns don't wanna agree with half assed tierlist, just like this guy @swift mango

[glad meteor]

🎧

[swift mango]

I mean who gonna make that guide?

[tropic summit]

you

[fathom rock]

Will be me at this rate

[swift mango]

https://tenor.com/view/anko-points-tamako-market-anko-tamako-market-anime-tamako-market-anko-point-pointing-gif-21888693

[glad meteor]

Blood and rail are sisters

[tropic summit]

reject pvp, return to pve

return to the light side of the force

[hollow lagoon]

@fathom rock u might as well have multiple layered pvp tierlists
first u rank the tier of comp archtypes
SSS Indom Stall
SS SLow
S Nuke
A Pad
then have a tier list of units for each comp archtype
then you can be less misinforming

[tropic summit]

you'll never find someone gemming for pve, but you sure as hell will find rats, gemmers, snipers, whels and the most toxic of the toxic in pvp

[glad meteor]

They gem for pve in banner

[fathom rock]

I will go ahead and get scar to ss and probably call cudo on the TL
It'll still do it's job will keep mental health and get to see how to manage the important stuff unless some good preposition arises here

[tropic summit]

too complicated, scrap all of that, make it simple:

who do i want for attack teams? there's then 15-25 units situationally
who do i want for defense teams? even less, maybe 10-15 units can remain core on defense

[hollow lagoon]

that be nice too

[tropic summit]

sh*t that's true

[fathom rock]

No no the TL is not about to consider pad
Can you elaborate on rest tho

[hollow lagoon]

just do it Zant's way its easier

def/off

[tropic summit]

ye but tracer approach aint too bad, archetype can be gud approach

[fathom rock]

Yeah I wonder totally like the ss and sss tier aren't all the core units for all 3 situations just need to make a team of em

[hollow lagoon]

why dont ask ai how to make comprehensive tierlist for nikke pvp

[fathom rock]

Bc it'll still do worse than this

[hollow lagoon]

as long as you finish before SU drops a unit that invalid vesti like folkwand treasure -90% fire damage taken for 5 seconds on entering battle

[tropic summit]

start simple, let's start with the pvp core

core: (used in both deficit and non deficit, attack and defense)
noah, biscuit, jackal, trina, rumani, emilia, vestiTU, SWHA, helmT, laplaceT, liberalio, cindy, nayuta, moran, noise, blanc

situational:
RRH, crown, ein, anchorIM, rapunzel, soda, rosanna, RH, siren, scarlet (the list can go on depending on how far we wanna go)

start with this tierlist

[fathom rock]

I don't get it bro

[hollow lagoon]

or maybe its best u dont finish so u dont have to start again

[swift mango]

you should listen to my sister

[hollow lagoon]

your sister is hot cant focuse

[fathom rock]

... If I raise the meta line to SS doesn't it fulfill exactly that minus rapunzel

[tropic summit]

ye but that's the juicy part, you don't need anything below S realistically

fix the SS and SSS, the rest will come way easier

[swift mango]

rapunzel doesn't exist

[tropic summit]

pvp core is all people want

they wanna know what to build that lasts and is used EVERYWHERE

[fathom rock]

Situational/replacement below, take rapunzel down to S, raise meta line to SS, get scar down to SS

[tropic summit]

they wanna have stuff that can help on deficit

and stuff that holds on def

[hollow lagoon]

@fathom rock if i'mma be honest just use current tierlist progress and include centi treasure description and situationals inside centi's reviews and you are good tbh, why work so hard on this when it changes every couple unit release

[tropic summit]

the secret is keep the tierlist simple and direct

[fathom rock]

Bc I don't wanna do this every couple unit releases

[tropic summit]

what do i wanna use on attack?
what do i wanna use on def?
what do i wanna have for CA?

[fathom rock]

Should still make Team-building page for that purpose but have the TL be tl
I think that's all?

[swift mango]

are you sure rapunzel weaker than noise

[tropic summit]

you won't, pvp core units have mostly remained the exact same, scarlet, cindy and s.anis maybe suffered, rest is practically still used

[tropic summit]

way more situational than noise

i wouldn't put them on the same field for attack/def

[swift mango]

[tropic summit]

simply becasue attacker can downright skip rapunzel

[swift mango]

rapu has higher high

[tropic summit]

put a sniper team, rapunzel will never stun

noise? she'll still work

[hollow lagoon]

yeah but its situational

[gritty ridge]

Wow hime you look different

[fathom rock]

I'll visualize that somehow

[tropic summit]

time changes people

[glad meteor]

Comparing tanking unit vs niche stun, heal + res, diff uses

[tropic summit]

one day you're a male, the next day you're a f2p

[gritty ridge]

Yeah its crazy, zant is red now

[hollow lagoon]

@tropic summit we need a taunt unit that stun opponent team when killed

[swift mango]

just take it into account when build team. rapunzel can make a team around herself. Noise can't

[tropic summit]

i need a hot sister like @swift mango does

[swift mango]

[hollow lagoon]

just steal @swift mango 's sister

[tropic summit]

[glad meteor]

What is g0oing on

[tropic summit]

blood's sister

[swift mango]

steal the one below you and above me. she's all yours.

[tropic summit]

honest opinion to help you, start small, start from the pvp core

noone gives a damn where you rank a liter or a RRH, but they sure as hell wanna know why they need to invest in a moranT

[hollow lagoon]

@glad meteor

[tropic summit]

damn i need to make dinner tho

[hollow lagoon]

[tropic summit]

we got too invested into half assed tierlists i forgot

gonna make some pasta, nice and easy

[carmine pond]

Is this old or like, what

I keep hearing Jackal is a must

For arena

[tropic summit]

yes it's a must

• core unit for indom
• core unit for pseudo stalls
• core unit for burst gen
• core unit for deficit
• core unit for defense

[carmine pond]

So with helm she'd be on burst gen?

[swift mango]

upgrade wise

her s2 doesn't help much.
her s1 help dmg a little.
her s3 help very specific units dmg.

[tropic summit]

her role is activating feed mechanic, giving burst gen, reducing dmg via damage sharing

then you've situational other usages, like indom

[carmine pond]

So like, a better Anis

[tropic summit]

way better, anis is exclusively a burst gen battery, jackal is all the above

[glad meteor]

https://tenor.com/view/scared-terrified-aaa-horror-horrified-gif-17943660798774918087

[tropic summit]

indom enabled via jackal links

this showcases burst gen, indom and links

[carmine pond]

So her skills don't matter that much? Just burst?

[glad meteor]

Jackal blanc vestiTU biscuit helmt

[swift mango]

none of her skill upgrade matters much

[glad meteor]

Vesti can beother dps I guess, as long as decent and lower hp than helmt

[tropic summit]

jackal blanc vestiTU biscuit helmT

[glad meteor]

[lone sequoia]

just helm snipe...

[tropic summit]

@swift mango don't me, your sister is hot

[quiet fiber]

Thanks that worked

[tropic summit]

great minds think alike

@swift mango me again one more time and i rail your sister

[carmine pond]

I have her at 4/4/4, where should I have her for arena?

[tropic summit]

[swift mango]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-selflove-selfcest-boys-love-selfcest-nation-gif-8746667730509746170

[tropic summit]

[tropic summit]

that's fine as is, as long as you're not gapped

didn't i make that team earlier for you already

[swift mango]

stealing kara credit

[fathom rock]

[hollow lagoon]

@gritty ridge 's waifu in shambles

[fathom rock]

LapT looks questionable af there with this format thoughts?

My mental health not gonna recover from this

[swift mango]

she give centi/rumani ish burst gen and high dmg.

[tropic summit]

@swift mango did you see how wide sugar is

[fathom rock]

Okay nvm yea I should just sleep soon

[tropic summit]

sleep well my man, deserve the best dreams, good night

[fathom rock]

I do not associate with wide sugar and I do not cause them, nor do I encourage this behavior

[hollow lagoon]

maybe when he wakes up i'm zant and zant is rail

[tropic summit]

he doesn't know what horrors await him tomorrow

[fathom rock]

Ba I'm still awake some more

[hollow lagoon]

oh noes u gonna spread the birus

[fathom rock]

I already semi lost my hearing what if I wake up ded, so?

[tropic summit]

look at how bad it got to @swift mango

the man barely standing

[hollow lagoon]

[tropic summit]

i'd rather you wake up alive

i need moral and actual help for when i'll face zizx on doable range, which is in a 3 months at least

[fathom rock]

You know..... you never know...

[hollow lagoon]

spamm anchor very fast, try to burst 4 when nuke happwns

[fathom rock]

Anchor? Anchor so last gen vs ziz

[tropic summit]

doesn't help cuz i'm not a whel like hippo

[hollow lagoon]

and then matter of memorize patterns

[fathom rock]

MoranT solo tanks ziz

[tropic summit]

actually hippo will be at zizx himself soon

[fathom rock]

You just needed the lvls

[tropic summit]

can you believe it, ppl who started months later than us @fathom rock and are passing us

[fathom rock]

We f2p should stand our ground
I should also stand my ground and finish this goddamn tl

[tropic summit]

https://klipy.com/gifs/sakuta-azusagawa-mai-sakurajima-6

[high stream]

What the hell am I looking at

[tropic summit]

don't look, avert your eyes

[fathom rock]

A pvp tl open for discussion?

[tropic summit]

it's in beta, like CA

[hollow lagoon]

in case of moran, i have no advise since i didnt use

[tropic summit]

[high stream]

Ohh, I see.
I'm not pvp skilled enough to partake. But I'll go out on a limb and say MoranT is probably SSS now.

[hollow lagoon]

prob crown rapi moran helmT mmast/xbrid

[tropic summit]

except that i do pepega dmg with that

[fathom rock]

You can partake if you want I don't mind just present something
Moran and MoranT both deserve sss

[hollow lagoon]

how

[tropic summit]

ye tell the game

[hollow lagoon]

i had a 3 ele 2 atk rapi and i passed it 581

with anchor

[tropic summit]

MF your CP at 581 is the same as a f2p at 611

[fathom rock]

I miss the good ol days
It was chapter 2,enjoying silly Anis joke and not worrying about meta

[hollow lagoon]

then i would pass it even faster because my f2p friend at 607 is higher than me at 581

[high stream]

I get a lot of help from Railtracer to maintain my top 10 ranking. But in terms of instinct.. I do feel that Scarlet fell off with TVesti and SWHA releasing. Just a lot less Scarlet teams as well. Rosanna SSS surprises me a bit, I pretty much never see her used .. maybe I should give her more attention. Blanc SSS feels right, cause she kinda enables some of the best teams right now, so at least by extention .. she became SSS through SWHA and TVesti release. But then again, I don't know how much Noah and Biscuit actually surpass Blanc in utility and counter capacity.

[tropic summit]

imagine how many ppl will be free once this game EoS

ppl will suddenly discover there are games that respect their time and money more

we might even achieve world peace

[fathom rock]

But all what you're saying is on point, except Rosanna is mainly attacker/ca and most don't even build her so you not seeing her is also normal

[fathom rock]

Sadly the world ain't this simple

[carmine pond]

Yes and they're doing very good rn, I'm 5-1 ty

[fathom rock]

@tropic summit part of me wants to ask in rps but another part of me knows I'll get roasted to hell then kicked

[tropic summit]

RPS?

[fathom rock]

One of our mutual servers

[high stream]

I wonder if that's because .. for SP Arena, she simply does't make the cut for the 3 best teams one can come up with. Be it defense or offense .. but maybe she always is in CA teams? I feel that SP Arena and CA Arena kinda being their own eco-systems makes such tierlists difficult. CA technically uses slightly weaker teams by extention than you'd see in SP Arena, cause SP requires 15 Nikke, CA requires 25. This makes SP teams more quality over quantity, while CA demands you to weaken certain teams by a bit to make your Team 4 and 5 a lot stronger.

[tropic summit]

oooh that one, i think you should

you could get extra good input from some lads there

there's nothing wrong asking, especially from you

you've good intentions

[carmine pond]

Almost 20k deficit btw, bro cooked

[fathom rock]

Yeah it's rough to make it one tier-list and I really wanna seperate it but can't

[carmine pond]

ig 20k isn't a lot later on but this was only 75k vs. 92k

[fathom rock]

Reset time yay....

[high stream]

You could separate it a bit by assuming a Nikke that is SS makes the best in slot cut for Team 4 and 5 in CA, but not for Team 1 - 3 in SP, unless its a direct counter?

[tropic summit]

realistically speaking, a single TL, that doesn't account all situations, is going to be so inaccurate and will have to be so half assed that it makes it way too unreliable

you gotta split it down at least to the sides (attacker and defender)

a split tierlist furthermore for CA, because CA has its own win ratios and rules

that's when you'll actually have a chance to build a tierlist that can be referenced

anything that doesn't account the above, will not be accounting for most situations

a liberalio on attack is worth SSS

a liberalio on defense is worth an A at best

[high stream]

Hmm, that makes sense as well.
But if you had to build 3 defense teams .. would Liberalio make the cut?
I feel .. u could argue that any Nikke that makes the cut for the THREE BEST POSSIBLE Defense teams .. could be SSS or near SSS?

[tropic summit]

you're not too far off

SP arena defense is VERY picky

any unit that somehow finds a spot in a stable defense team, is very likely high in ranking

[high stream]

Yeah and even there .. u simply cannot build an unbeatable defense.
What you do is build the most unbeatable defense .. and the reason you maintain is either because you outscale CP .. or your 'would be opponent' lacks direct counters

[tropic summit]

absolutely right

[high stream]

You're basically doing as much as you can and then depend on your competitors pull luck and spending habits

even OL line luck to a degree

[magic dust]

Any alternative for Emilia?

[high stream]

Something u could actually implement even in the Prydwen Tierlist would be sorting Nikke not just by SSS to F
But also sort them from left to right.

You could make very blurry lines a lot clearer that way

Or statements like .. "Yes, Jackal, Moran and Rosanna are the 3 best B1s in PvP in the game. But MoranT and Jackal are just VASTLY stronger than Rosanna"

[slate falcon]

Who should get it for PvP?

[high stream]

And the solution then would be .. Rosanna is first from left to right in SS B1

[tropic summit]

for nayuta team you only need a flex p5 that contributes high burst gen to retain team to 2RL, ideally the flex also has splash

realistically in that flex spot only emilia and laplaceT can fit

SWHA and vestiTU can fill, but it means your other teams will be lacking

[fathom rock]

If I get a chance what would be the most efficient way to go about this just splitting ca and spa

[gaunt pulsar]

either noah or jackal, leaning more towards jackal, but she can survive more without a doll than noah due to dmg share, being without a doll just kills her indom potential, you cannot make it as she gonna be lower hp than your sr-15 dps

[high stream]

#pvp-arena message ?

[magic dust]

Huuum what if I swap vesti in comp 2 with Libe?

[fathom rock]

This is very significantly hard and applying it only to one of the tls is something

[high stream]

Hmm .. I see.

[fathom rock]

Like sure it'll work splendid on the higher tiers but the lower we go...

It also prevents 2 nikkes from having similiar preformance

[high stream]

True, I didn't consider that

It would probably easier to split this amongst the best of the best

But the density the lower u go gets really high.. around S and A.. you have dozens of Nikke sharing a tier

[tropic summit]

you can but it makes that team far less threatening

rather use a clip SG and get nayuta team down to 2.5RL

nayuta trina/centi helmT RH drakeT/bsoda/noir

centi/trina will need quantum

example:

loses threat but retains purpose to try and force an indom or a noah

further weak although to siren (as opponent won't need to consider if you've 11CS% team or not)

[slate falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/nazuna-nanakusa-call-of-the-night-anime-yofukashi-no-uta-vampire-gif-104830462672130404

[gaunt pulsar]

you sure you want to spend it on them? there like vestiTU, cindy that need it more

[slate falcon]

Nah they have the purple doll

On scale of 1-10 how good Is LaplaceT in PVP?

[tidal lichen]

hero/10

[tropic summit]

clip RL burst gen tier, but also contributes to damage, has pressure p2 and is iron code

[gaunt pulsar]

ah, good then
if you have biscuit you dont need doll on noah because you can run them together for safer approach, so giving doll to her not gonna give you a huge benefit especially because it's not purple and doesn't provide damage reduction%
same deal with jackal, you can run her without a doll for a while but it kills possibility of doing indom setups with blanc
so for both of them it's just going to be general cp increase and nothing more

[tropic summit]

i'd say between 7 and 9

[fathom rock]

I'm gonna speedrun depression at this rate

[tidal lichen]

not good.

[tropic summit]

https://klipy.com/gifs/kanna-kamui-pat

[slate falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/doro-thinking-gif-13015072109773951737

I don have a biscuit, but I like idom teams so I’ll give it to jackal

[tropic summit]

reread my tips, start simple, start from pvp core units, then go down from there

[fathom rock]

I might get the opportunity to split stuff
Seems to me this is final still if no splitting

[slate falcon]

I have a spear purple doll incase I get Scar BS is LaplaceT worth it?

[tidal lichen]

ada

[tropic summit]

ok let's go slowly from the top

jackal SSS
ros shifting between SSS to SS
moran shifting between SSS and SS
biscuit SSS
noah SSS
blanc SSS
helmT SSS
emilia arguable SS and SSS (the invest needs for the CS% is no joke, delayed nuke is not as effective)
SWHA SSS
vestiTU SSS

This one wraps up SSS

[fathom rock]

Just use doll selector if need, lapT worth it for pvp

[tropic summit]

moving on to SS, we need a reason for them to be less than SSS

[fathom rock]

Invest tag to emilia can be sealed deal
Ros and moran depend what ends uo below them tbh

[slate falcon]

I see

Ty for help yall

[tropic summit]

noise SS? i could understand as long as she's not weaker than other units
rapunzel SS? very arguable, i'd down rank this
rumani SS? yeah, core part, but not as important as SSS units
trina SS? as above (more usage than centi tho)
centi SS? as above
nayuta SS? ... arguable but she's between S and SSS
bay SS? this is very arguable, but since we lack other options than noah and she combos well with biscuit, while providing anti nuke to some, SS or S is ok
cindy SS? this is extremely arguable, but let's leave her there due to the usage on burst and defender unit, decoy also adds value situationally
laplaceT SS? arguable, maybe S? but clip RL and splash + iron, can get to SS
liberalio SS? this unit is so side dependant and so situational... the only way to excuse it is her downright OP power in attack teams
scarlet SS? no, in 2026 this just can't exist... rank to S due to how powercrept she got and situational she became

now we get to the fun times, the S rank and the A rank

something NEEDS to be tell why a unit is S and a unit is A

there is noway, for example, that siren can stay A and soline can stay A

siren is at the very least S if not SS rank due to her unique interactions

[fathom rock]

There is space to maneuver stuff down in S and A, scarlet can go down maybe rapu too but it'll depend what ends up there too, and I think the power diff keeps ross and moran higher end

[tropic summit]

siren literally changed positioning alone

she can't be A

siren is easy to move up, because she powercreeps noone

[fathom rock]

Yea

[tropic summit]

she adds a feature, a whole new reasoning to teams

she's a standalone monster

S or SS, easily, but we can get there later

we've RH, label, nero, anis, mihara, xmaiden, ada... these ones are easy

RH is A or S situationally, but she won't climb to SS

she can be A if we only assume her as B1, but she needs to be S if assumed as B1 B2 B3, simply because she can, in fact, solo teams

she's a DPS SR, meaning she can hit p5, which adds value

the fact she's B2-B3 aswell helps on deficit

we need to look at her whole kit

in my eyes, all the above, makes her at least S, not A

deficit of 30-35%? lib + RH, no way around, easy wipe

need sniper DPS for p5 and you already used up lib/SWHA? RH can do

moving on recapping:

siren S or SS
RH S
anis A
nero A
midhara S
xmaiden A or S
ada S

we've:

nero, anis, mihara, xmaiden, ada... these ones are easy

anis is A rank, she can't be S or SS, due to stats but also her needing to be strictly p4

plus she's realistically a cheap alternative, but not a unit to seek

[fathom rock]

I think her bgen more than makes up for it compared to what goes down there

[tropic summit]

nero... this one is situational as hell

but her kit is unique... she's a pseudo scarlet on steroids if stacked properly and in the right team in the right situation

she belongs to A or to S, but not enough for S anymore imo

midhara... this one has unique kit too, but also situational, way less than nero is tho

she can fit many teams as sacc unit, works great on slow teams and can be used in def and attack

she's S

xmaiden... she has value in indom team as backup B3, can contribute burst gen, is defender, can be used as main B3 to nuke links as pseudo helmT

she's between A and S

ada? this unit is overlooked greatly, but she's one of the few offburst B3, gives lifesteal and massive dmg, she can't be only rank A

[fathom rock]

Ada buffer + lifesteal is good for the other dpses and she can also be main b3 to counter biscuit, low bgen tho, think S is good

[tropic summit]

exactly

you see the picture already, that can't be A

there, we solved SSS, SS and S

now for B and A, this can get fun

we've

there's an important distinction to make straight away here

soda, soline, anchorIM, drakeT, bsoda cannot belong to A rank like this

either some units move down, or they move up

i think it's easier for some to simply move up, due to the uniqueness of their kits

soline and soda go up to S

later, i'm helping retro

drakeT is direct counter to noah
bsoda is direct counter to elec code units, especially noise

these 2 need to go up, or others need to go down

SG team in general is a threat any team needs to consider

[fathom rock]

But the situation for those to line up is not common maybe move down is better

[tropic summit]

they also have self good burst gen, while feeding

they're units that fit between A and S situationally

you'll have to make a choice here

does it matter that they can counter and punish teams?

is it a unique kit that deserves S?

if the answer is no, that's an A for both

[fathom rock]

Just sg, sg and sg power
Absolutely matter they can punish monkey on atk/def

And they can slot as a psuedo replacement

In a lot of teams

[tropic summit]

recapping so far:

soline and soda S
all clip SGs, A or S
makima B or A
xanne B or A
mana B or A
anchorIM A or S
reiT A
ein A
SBS B
emma B
grave B

makima is not an A, noway she can stay A

[fathom rock]

All she does is indom right, is useful for blocking a side on deficit

[tropic summit]

grave, emma, anchorIM, xanne, ein, sbs, mana... these units don't feel like they belong to A, maybe situationally, but not in the general realistic sense

1. availability (xanne and mana especially)
2. who gonna invest in some of them with other options available?

[tropic summit]

availability tho, who's gonna have her if they missed her earlier on?

that's imo a thing that should be considered for rankings too

[fathom rock]

No one, but we got a tag for that

[tropic summit]

alrighty

assuming availability is no issue, she can stay A rank due to unique kit of being unkillable, albet feed + piss poor gen

the good thing is that it's easy to differentiate her from similar units, like moran or nayuta, cuz her kit contributes nothing

imo makima is between B and A

now xanne and mana... these 2 ignoring availability and ppl who can afford investing in them

they fell off in meta, mana is easy to deal with... xanne has way better options than her nowdays

these units are also between B and A

[fathom rock]

Xanne replacement is just rapunzel as revive and she is a strong buffer still
Mana.... Can't defend her

[tropic summit]

arguably could stick xanne in A, but mana is really hanging to A barely

moving on, we've the odd one, anchorIM, this unit value is actually underlooked

[leaden canyon]

if you can get rapunzel stun online its nasty

[tropic summit]

anchorIM gives atk%, but more importantly, extra instant HP

this doubles as an alternative to bay in noise + anchorIM teams

also combos with moran and some other specific teams

imo anchorIM is definitely A but leaning S due to that

i'll put A or S for now

[glad meteor]

MAkiMA 🫃

[tropic summit]

finally we got grave, emma, sbs, ein, reiT

ein and reit are fairly easy

[glad meteor]

Anchor + helm gibs heals too

[tropic summit]

both serve sort of same similar purpose, with ein having added DPS post burst, reiT having better nuke with single buff

i think it's safe to stick them in A, less than S situationally, but can lean to S

if anything definitely not B

SBS on the other hand is harder to defend... she was the alternative option for DPS indom... but we got so many options now, realistically she's used maybe as flex non feeding unit

i'd put her in B

she's not on same level as ein and reiT

[glad meteor]

cp pad

[tropic summit]

ye 'bout that at best

[fathom rock]

Sbs DD proc can actually cause misindom if no jackal but not worth a tier diff

[tropic summit]

agreed

moving on we've grave emma

my question is... why emma is even A? the taunting upon entering? that's situational as hell

[glad meteor]

Besti being fire kinda f’s all of wind dps up. Whole link can just die beceause one of them is wind

[tropic summit]

emma is arguably between B and A

[fathom rock]

Because Emma eunhwa vestiTU can work and when it does its crazy

[tropic summit]

ye but then it requires all 3

let's talk about the unit itself

[glad meteor]

Absolute is S

[tropic summit]

what does she do? taunt? that's about it

put her in B unless she's comboed with absolute, too situational

[fathom rock]

Hwr solo preformance not worth, her main deal is tactical comp here

[tropic summit]

yep

we need to look at the unit itself, not the teams

[fathom rock]

She does have the tag for it

[glad meteor]

Rail has emma propaganda title but not positive

[tropic summit]

lastly, we've grave

[glad meteor]

[tropic summit]

grave is a B2 with somewat OK burst gen, but feeds and a weaker buff

how is she A? what explains this?

[fathom rock]

Grave uhh shouldn't be here she does nothing till she bursts and feeds

Nothing does

[tropic summit]

i think we can agree she can fall to B for now

that's it, we've covered A aswell

recapping so far:

noise SS
rapunzel SS
rumani SS
trina SS
centi SS
nayuta SS
bay SS
cindy SS
laplaceT SS
liberalio SS
scarlet SS

siren S or SS
RH S
anis A
nero A
midhara S
xmaiden A or S
ada S

soline and soda S
all clip SGs, A or S
makima B or A
xanne B or A
mana B or A
anchorIM A or S
reiT A
ein A
SBS B
emma B
grave B

this looks way better already

[fathom rock]

That leaves no b2s in S tier tho

[tropic summit]

we can get to that

blanc and all clip RL do not serve the same purpose

blanc should be higher due to her unique and today only available indom enabler

blanc is SSS arguable

[glad meteor]

We saying ada is s

[fathom rock]

Blanc is sss no questions that's not it

[glad meteor]

Not many good off burst buffers

[tropic summit]

rumani trina and centi are not doing the same thing either... arguably rumani is the only clip RL that can enable B1 in slow teams

rumani can arguably be SSS

what about the other SS options B2

bay, trina, centi

i don't feel these should fall to S

arguably bay and trina offer more than centi

but clip RL is so important that SS still fits

[fathom rock]

They do offer more but no way to properly seperate them atleast not yet

[tropic summit]

agreed

[glad meteor]

Bay kinda needs a note that her team may need cs, her buff takes longer to activate compared to noah or blanc

[tropic summit]

i wouldn't touch B2, as is looks fine

meanwhile we for sure need to separate B and C

[fathom rock]

Cs tag

[tropic summit]

as kara mentioned ada only S is arguable

let's see if there's any unit less "useful" in SS than her to actually let her deserve SS

noise
rapunzel
rumani
trina
centi
bay
cindy
laplaceT
liberalio
scarlet

she's competing with these

arguably scarlet needs to take the L here

but for the sake of her relevance still in scar-ros and on attack teams, SS could still fit

her indom option can counter SWHA and vestiTU indoms

i wouldn't let her fall from SS only cuz of the above

[fathom rock]

Not like scar is completely dead yes

[tropic summit]

ada on the other hand, can she do more than scarlet? than lib? than lappy?

situationally, yes

her indom option can solo wipe
her buffing is relevant
her kit is unique

[fathom rock]

But that's what the situational tiers are for
She remain S

[tropic summit]

so we can say she sort of fits RH same positioning

can be used as standalone or as buffer

potentially better standalone than RH, but still between S and won't reach SS

ada is S

which leaves... B and C ranks

let's take a look what horror we've to deal with

[fathom rock]

Worst 2 ranks

[glad meteor]

Name a better off burst buffer than ada

[fathom rock]

There isn't but there also isn't that massive demand for them

[tropic summit]

downranked to B we have:

SBS B
emma B
grave B
mana B or A
xanne B or A
makima B or A

arguably all buffers deserve at least B

[glad meteor]

[vapid dagger]

What is this?

[glad meteor]

We can’t always rhb1

[tropic summit]

liter, xanne, grave, bada, miranda, crown, mari, brid, poli(T) fit in B just fine

[leaden canyon]

they working on a tier list

[tropic summit]

let's get to RRH

does RRH deserve more than B? absolutely yes

[vapid dagger]

What type of tierlist?

[leaden canyon]

pvp

[tropic summit]

does RRH provide more than current A rank? situationally yes

[fathom rock]

She can be accommodated after the siren soline got space in S

It's fine

[tropic summit]

RRH can solo wipe, direct counter multiple elements, can solo indom, is easier to enable via SWHA and more burst options, can be behind noah biscuit for DPS B3, hits whole team

RRH easily gets to S

additionally, flex B1 buffer situationally with offburst DPS

[glad meteor]

Ade maid cant even make C tier ?

[tropic summit]

we getting to that

liter B
xanne B
grave B
bAde B
miranda B
crown B
mari B
brid B
poliT B
RRH S

now what do we've

pepper needs to be promoted to clip SG tier, A rank

also enabler B1, so there's a bit of value too

maiden arguably is a pseudo alternative nuker, still clip SG, A rank

normal drake can also be A rank

maidP im surprised she's B rank

[fathom rock]

This naturally moves other clips to s

[tropic summit]

she's still lethal on double buff, deserves to be behind ein/reiT

[glad meteor]

Not clip

[tropic summit]

no, no reason to

[tropic summit]

double buff lethal nuker is not B rank

[fathom rock]

DrakeT and bsoda as in

[glad meteor]

Even scar trina isnt enough to kill sometimes. Mpriv doesnt stand chance

[tropic summit]

scarlet used to be double buff nuker

until trina happened

pepper, maiden, drake A
pmaid A
s.anis A

[fathom rock]

It's awkward to get 2 buffer + mpriv + bgen to actually happen
Like extremely so

[glad meteor]

Double buff mpriv is 2.5rl at best

[tropic summit]

don't forget burst options got insanely better

you can still decide to punish pmaid but then you gotta punish reit and ein

[wild hemlock]

Pepper treasure in 2 years will be huge for pvp

[tropic summit]

also this is 2.1RL

but too situational ofc

[fathom rock]

This is a dead privaty rhb3 indom

[tropic summit]

depends what's on the other side

if they lack lethal for p1, she can

let's go with the general assumption and usage

[fathom rock]

Too situational

[glad meteor]

Too many eggs in one basket. Time to make an omelette

[tropic summit]

ye i can see your point

if we go with the point of view of:

ein and reiT don't need either double buffer or have added DPS post burst

[unique wagon]

Situational is B.

[tropic summit]

then pmaid falls off of at least 1 tier

[unique wagon]

A is situational but also not situational.

[fathom rock]

Is why she B

[tropic summit]

since she can lethal nuke, unlike others, should she retain A?

[unique wagon]

S is situational but stronger.

[tropic summit]

or even better, privT does the same but better than pmaid

[unique wagon]

SS is meta.
SSS is must have/build or has high values.

[tropic summit]

assuming privT is at least A rank

arguably S due to added stun value and needing only 1 buff

[fathom rock]

PrivT is supposed to be SS for her stun + nuke + buff

[tropic summit]

then pmaid is not S for sure, at best A or leaning to B

[tropic summit]

ye this is reasonable

privT is between S and SS for sure

maybe less contribution than ada but we getting there

based on what we shared, i'd say pmaid does not afterall make it to A

pmaid is B

[glad meteor]

I doubt she nukes with one buff

[tropic summit]

recap so far:

pepper, maiden, drake A
pmaid A
s.anis A
pmaid B

[glad meteor]

People said scar trina would always overkill. I don’t trust math people anymore

[unique wagon]

S = Situational/non-situational units that, if you don't have, may lock you out of beating certain comps.
A = Situational/non-situational units that, if you don't have, you're still probably fine.
B = Situational only.

[fathom rock]

All this clip clipping

[tropic summit]

now let's look at other B and Cs

we've left

milk
ludmilla
emma
zwei
neon
pascal
sora
tia
arcana
curst
Delta-alt
naga
diesel
rosanna-alt
folk
mmast

[unique wagon]

Situational only = only reasonable on Attack.

[tropic summit]

these units are barely hanging for their dear life in B

i think we need to separate useful units from ultra cope units

that will differentiate them from B and C

[fathom rock]

Zwei C, accommodation for ZweiT B crit buff + niche pierce

[unique wagon]

C = Best alternatives (not used but can be used if you know what you're doing).

D = Useless.
E = More useless than D.

[tropic summit]

let's start with useful units

2b
a2
pascal
neon
naga
ros-alt
alice
raven
power
MW
diesel alt
harran
sakuraS
kilo

2B is flex nuker, defender unit, this one can lean to A

[swift mango]

pmaid is S and ReiT is A? This tier list is trash.

[fathom rock]

Her DD hold her back tho
One time DD nuke ez to block with biscu

[tropic summit]

privT is S read... we said pmaid is B

[swift mango]

https://tenor.com/view/disappointment-immeasurable-day-ruined-my-disappointment-is-immeasurable-and-my-day-is-ruined-gif-25049040

[tropic summit]

also you can contest it after we're done

we still sorting the horrors of B and C ranks

[tight finch]

Surely we gambling on R for this?

[unique wagon]

2B is not going A when there is Rosanna

[swift mango]

If ReiT or A isn't at least equal or ideally 1 higher tier than shit pmaid, I would change my suffix to "Prydwen is trash"

[glad meteor]

[unique wagon]

Also who tf puts PMaid higher than ReiA or ReiT?

You have reading skill issue.

[tropic summit]

2B leaning A
a2 staying B
pascal staying B, even as clip RL, his rarity and availability holds him back
neon staying B, even as clip SG, her rarity holds her back
naga can be A situationally... but realistically B
ros-alt this is a very pseudo debuffer, B
alice situationally higher due to high power output and SR pressure, she could lean A
raven can stay B
power is pseudo nuker... but lethality is mid, B
MW pseudo offburst buffer, very slow nuke but doesn't wipe, could fall C
diesel alt can stay B
harran same as pmaid, easy B
sakuraS, used to be ok in scarlet for added DoT pressure, but doesn't offer much, B
kilo pseudo nuker, hard to make her lethal, less than pmaid, B

[unique wagon]

Noticeably.

[tropic summit]

we talked about this earlier, i think we all agreed she's less than A and at best B, due to burst gen + needing 2 buffers

[unique wagon]

I don't want A to have units that are cheesable on Defense.

[tropic summit]

@fathom rock let's sort these next, lemme know

[glad meteor]

a-s

[tropic summit]

considering we moved ein and reiT up, privT inevitably needs to be at least S

[unique wagon]

That's why RRH is B because she's only useful on Attack.

[tropic summit]

look at her kit as a whole

[glad meteor]

I do not like privT at all tbh

[tropic summit]

also i thought you didn't consider sides

[unique wagon]

At A tiers, it has to be good in one way or another on Defense.

[tropic summit]

she's good on defense, nayuta 2RL has RH as core

[unique wagon]

I said it considered BOTH sides.

[tropic summit]

ye both sides she's good

[swift mango]

scarlet

[glad meteor]

Low gen, weak nuke, b2 is always faster than b3

[unique wagon]

And I said RRH not RH. You should sleep.

[tropic summit]

why so angery?

[unique wagon]

You are mixing units up twice already.

[tropic summit]

we talked about RRH earlier

[tight finch]

Can't you cheese anything on def tho

[tropic summit]

you sure you're not the one who needs to read?

[unique wagon]

I never said you didn't discuss RRH?

[tropic summit]

@unique wagon

[unique wagon]

Are you, by chance, assuming?

[tropic summit]

stop being angery because @fathom rock is doing a better job in collecting feedback

let him continue please.

[unique wagon]

I said RRH is B as an example to why A2 cannot be higher than B.

[tropic summit]

that's the truth

[unique wagon]

And you assumed I said it cus you said she's A?

[glad meteor]

https://tenor.com/view/yuji-stare-yuji-itadori-jjk-jujutsu-kaisen-yuji-stare-meme-gif-2566228405341525362

[tropic summit]

we were moving at a good pace till someone joined

[swift mango]

Tbf Privaty T is shit. 40 rocks on her and couldn't get anything good.

[tropic summit]

that's just you

[swift mango]

This is the best I got after 20 rocks

[tropic summit]

the day you get lucky with rocks the world probably about to end

[unique wagon]

True, but B tiers are a detriment, not helping.

[swift mango]

10 2 rocksrolls

[tight finch]

4x ammo lines your good to go

[unique wagon]

Like using Pepper on Defense can be cheesed by Jackal to make them faster.

[leaden canyon]

My nayuta is doing that to me with just trying to get an ele line, I have been temp lock rolling attack third line and the other 2 lines have not rolled ele at all lol

[unique wagon]

B tiers mean unreasonable on Defense because it goes against you.

[tropic summit]

TL is not assuming situations or sides, it's looking at the unit and what it brings

[unique wagon]

A+ means possible use because it still works for you.

[tropic summit]

else you won't see liberalio in SS

[tight finch]

But then jackal in general you can abuse links

[swift mango]

I'm not trying to get 1 specific line. Crit Dmg, AtK, Ele all good. But they just drop hit rate and ammo for the 6th times

[tropic summit]

ironic cuz you were the one that insisted you can't use sides for the TL

[swift mango]

[unique wagon]

TL assumes both sides. I repeated this multiple times.

[fathom rock]

2B harran just a dd nuker that's easy to block by invul and do nothing after

Doesn't kilo need buff and to keep her shield alive for nuke and is mg so no bgen and big feed how is she B

Alice sr pressure is good but all her damage is single target her long charge time also gives her bad bgen, also very high investment but accounted for

Rest pretty much fine

[tropic summit]

yeah sure

[leaden canyon]

thats been happening to me but with crit rolls lol, also I just got black ammo

[tropic summit]

ye sounds about right

[unique wagon]

I said the TL assumed both sides.

[tropic summit]

let's recap then @fathom rock

[unique wagon]

You're the one who wanted separate.

[fathom rock]

Can you believe my best global def still uses rrh bc they dunno how to counter it

[swift mango]

Like I said, it's 1 over 3 lines. Not 1 exacted line I needed.

[hollow lagoon]

you guys are still doing it

[swift mango]

They just give unusable line

[tight finch]

I feel like your going to have an easier time just looking at units use % vs wr % than trying to make individual ratings

[unique wagon]

The TL assumes "knowledgeable".

[tight finch]

esp since list is more for people who dont understand as much

[tropic summit]

2B B
a2 B
pascal B
neon B
naga B
ros-alt B
alice B
raven B
power B
MW B
diesel B
harran B
sakuraS B
kilo B

and these were the "useful" ones, let's look at the ones we discarded and can potentially derank to C

[unique wagon]

RRH can be cheesed by anything.

[fathom rock]

"knowledgeable" means all def comps are falling

[tropic summit]

the ones next:

milk
ludmilla
emma
zwei
neon
pascal
sora
tia
arcana
curst
Delta-alt
naga
diesel
rosanna-alt
folk
mmast

[unique wagon]

She literally only works well against Electric/Wind.

[tropic summit]

ignore kise for the time being, he can contest when we done

else we never finishing

@fathom rock let's look at the units above

[unique wagon]

No, knowledgeable is knowing Label counters Scar, or Lib has delayed nuke, etc.

Knowledgeable =/= experienced/expert

[leaden canyon]

its what, rosanna it, outstall with moran anchor helm, or do rrh indom also but have it be slightly slower?

[unique wagon]

Team archetypes, etc, are expert-level.

People can be knowledgeable and don't use archetypes.

[swift mango]

"knowledge" mean you can't break my def if I'm 20-40 level over you.

[tropic summit]

milk? C
ludmilla? C
emma? B
zwei? C, but we need data from treasure
sora? situational has purpose, B
tia? C, reenter at that
arcana? C
crust? C
delta-alt? C
folk? situational has purpose, budget blanc, B
mmast? C

[tropic summit]

if we check these out, we're done with the B rank range @fathom rock

[tight finch]

Feel like anyone can do that these days with SW tho

Sw pushing credit card defences

[swift mango]

It's because they don't make good def and don't CP pad

[fathom rock]

Her treasure crit rate buffs are good enough for B

OMG Emma tank meta

[tropic summit]

emma used to combo well with jackal and actually gives good sustain... but her usage is so niche she cannot reach A

[leaden canyon]

In my experience SW bursting into deficit doesn't go well, she for sure is awesome as a battery though

[tight finch]

idk i used to use moran +helm/sw and vesti+blanc to push into 40+ sync def

[unique wagon]

To put into perspective, my original TL was the one agreed upon the most here with 9/10 people saying it's ok.

[tropic summit]

we're not killing it entirely, some units were right, some units obviously wrong, especially siren, soline and ada

[unique wagon]

Original TL, not this one.

[tropic summit]

we're almost done then you can compare it

[swift mango]

Only Libby and Vesti be any good. At deficit. Libby is easy to counter. Vesti, half her dmg is true but her dmg is still lower enough for Moran to tank. So just build tanky team against opponent at deficit

[tropic summit]

my god get off your period

[unique wagon]

I wouldn't rate Siren and Soline same as RH.

But sure, I guess.

[tropic summit]

you'd derank RH i guess

[unique wagon]

Both are cheesable.

[leaden canyon]

yeah I just survived vesti ada blanc with stall

[unique wagon]

RH is still an important unit for fighting uphill.

[tropic summit]

look at the units, not the situation

[tropic summit]

ye that's better

[unique wagon]

Winning uphill without RH is pain.

You can win SpA without Soline or Siren.

[fathom rock]

Bro anything below ss is so cheesable and in multiple ways

[tropic summit]

yes and no, situations

[unique wagon]

Which makes both worse than RH.

CA doesn't care because CA uses whatever you have.

[tropic summit]

siren changed the meta for p1 positioning, you can't put her any lower than S because she adds that much threat on all sides

[unique wagon]

Sure. But Soline is A.

[tropic summit]

blanc p1? bye
noah p1 without 11%CS team wide? bye
oh indom B3 p1? again, bye

[unique wagon]

What threat does Soline give?

Rapu gimmick?

[tropic summit]

tell that to the people surviving SG pressure because ol little soline is there

[tropic summit]

sure guranteed stun to deny noah sounds less than S rank eh?

[unique wagon]

Yes, that means she is situational af (and it works in CA cus RNG).

[swift mango]

My def is purposely to best lower CP peeps.

Blanc is 10s. + Rosa empty kill.
Moran+Bay+Biscuit is tanky
Noise+Noah is tanky. Plus Vesti empty kill.

It's not effective against higher peeps but so long as it give lower CP peeps a hard time it works

[glad meteor]

Scar soline rapu on offense kinda makes simple vesti indom pepega in sp def

[tropic summit]

dafuq is situational she just needs to exist

[unique wagon]

Situational means she doesn't have impact most of the time.

[tropic summit]

argue with facts stop being on your period

[tidal lichen]

[unique wagon]

Soline did NOT change the meta.

[tropic summit]

first you argue units cannot be considered situationals and now you're finding any tiny bit to add how situational or side oriented is a unit,

[unique wagon]

Siren did.

Siren forced a positioning move meta.

[tight finch]

In rock paper scissors is rock S teir

[unique wagon]

That has a much bigger impact than "now my team is SG proof".

[tropic summit]

glad we agree on something

[unique wagon]

So Soline is staying A and Siren can go S.

[tropic summit]

soline cannot stay A, she literally enables pseudo moran on ALL your team

look. at. her. kit.

[unique wagon]

I READ HER KIT.

[tropic summit]

WITHOUT YOUR GLASSES ON

[unique wagon]

She doesn't have that much impact outside CA.

[hollow lagoon]

6 seconds of rolling dice if you get to kill or not is pertty good tbh

[tropic summit]

@fathom rock bring me the hammer, violence is required

i'll let him experience soline healing first hand

[swift mango]

Siren is impactful to the meta. Just like Scarlet. Just everyone and their mother know how to counter her.

Soline is less impactful and only CA usage. But she has one job and does it well.

They should be same tier tbh.

[tropic summit]

so does your sister

[fast nest]

could you just post the current one and fix it later?

[unique wagon]

No, because Siren literally made everyone change positions.

Soline doesn't.

[swift mango]

I'm tier with you talking about yourself.

[unique wagon]

She just... complements the meta and fixes the issues.

[tropic summit]

we were almost there

[glad meteor]

[fast nest]

it looks "almost there" for few weeks

[hollow lagoon]

@unique wagon u dont have to listen to Zant, he won 0 CAs

[tropic summit]

didn't you win some?

[unique wagon]

You mean Railtracerv2?

[hollow lagoon]

but me on the other hand 😄

[fast nest]

holy

[hollow lagoon]

i'm not Zant i'm i?

[tropic summit]

oh i guess i won CA then

[swift mango]

Like I said, it's about their power. Siren is noob killer. And niche.

Soline is niche.

Both are niche at end game.

[glad meteor]

Time to hire the person with the most ca wins here to do tl. And blame them for everything

[hollow lagoon]

scarlet niche la

[unique wagon]

Keripo?

[swift mango]

Not him that jpn guy

[tropic summit]

should be careful on who they pick, they might've never even played pvp because gapping everyone to hell and copypasta to win

[hollow lagoon]

@tropic summit did you tell @unique wagon scarlet can only be used on attack but siren can be used on attack and def?

[unique wagon]

If you don't have them, it's fine, though.

[tropic summit]

please don't make it worse, we almost done with C rank

[hollow lagoon]

imagine raking a unit that can only be used in half of a game mode S+

[unique wagon]

If you don't have RH, any upper hill fights will feel eh.

[glad meteor]

Oh Neko

[swift mango]

Yes, for both

[tropic summit]

meanwhile @fathom rock straight up went to bed

[unique wagon]

So, not owning RH in reality leaves a bigger impact.

[glad meteor]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-gif-1878760417600646737

[unique wagon]

Same as not owning Label.

[fathom rock]

Nah I'm using the info we talked to make a sheet

[tropic summit]

oh noice

[fathom rock]

[hollow lagoon]

not owning RH is sad, she is a really red red head

[tropic summit]

think we covered all the way to C, share the situation so far and we can then take a look for the other "special" units we didn't talk about yet

[unique wagon]

If I were an SpA player who gave no fk about CA, I'd consider having Label more important than RH even.

[swift mango]

Idk about that. I have her but she isn't in my SpA.

She only has 1 glow up recently with 2rl Nayuta. Thanks to SW free helm slot in CA. That's it.

[tropic summit]

@swift mango oi he's talkin' about you

your waifu is mentioned

[glad meteor]

That depends if your dps need buffer to kill.

[swift mango]

Label is indeed more important than RH.

[fast nest]

Then have 2 tier list. SpA CA. someone will make it

[tight finch]

I think investing in label enough to use to block scarlet a waste when you can use so many other methods tho lol

[tropic summit]

good god, what a chad

[unique wagon]

NEKOWORKI?

[glad meteor]

Prob yh

[hollow lagoon]

i was gonna say this but i thought i totured them enough already

[unique wagon]

Time to dm him (and get "who are you").

[tropic summit]

you can't DM ppl who blocked you

[unique wagon]

He blocked me? :(

[tropic summit]

i dunno i'm just guessing i hope not

[fast nest]

or how about placing same figure but having different mark such as SpA CA

[unique wagon]

No, he didn't. You liar.

[tropic summit]

my dear baron, you think we didn't try yet

downright refused

[unique wagon]

Only one guy blocks me here the name is Noir.

[fast nest]

[tropic summit]

surely you haven't done anything to actually deserve that

[swift mango]

Tbf he didn't really change his team often. Dude just used the same teams to win many time because of his high investment pressing on his opponent.

[unique wagon]

Oh, it's silly. I just blamed him for telling me to pull XGuillo.

[tropic summit]

did i even pull xguillo

[unique wagon]

3 from bottom.

[hollow lagoon]

i pulled xguillo

[glad meteor]

Bottom

[tropic summit]

who DIDN'T you pull you MF whel

[glad meteor]

I mileaged i think

[unique wagon]

He should still have some good insights.

Which is more trustworthy than random people probably.

[tropic summit]

[hollow lagoon]

people with good ele rolls needs to go to hell yes

[swift mango]

You should make another wiki because the Prydwen guys won't

[tropic summit]

yeah wouldn't go trusting those random people

[unique wagon]

Are you random people?

[swift mango]

Just ask snake. He made the team for Neko.

[tropic summit]

[unique wagon]

Did Neko win?

Snake basically gave up on PvP.

[hollow lagoon]

[unique wagon]

Right about I think 1 year ago?

[swift mango]

He used the same teams to win 11 CA.

[tropic summit]

i haven't seen snake in forever

[unique wagon]

Is that Snake's teams?

[tropic summit]

he still plays nikke?

[swift mango]

He is

[unique wagon]

He does. Now, he malds UR.

[tropic summit]

oh good

[unique wagon]

For some reason, only UR.

[tropic summit]

hmm so no SR either uh

[unique wagon]

Bro's <30% in Campaign, give bad takes since a few months ago, but is weirdly good with arranging TL.

[tropic summit]

i dunno i still have to recover from this TL trauma im experiencing

[unique wagon]

(He started giving bad takes when he had exams.)

[tropic summit]

yeah university/studying does that

[unique wagon]

He is still very up to date with UR stuff.

[tropic summit]

@swift mango since we waiting on retro, where would you put ReiT and ein

[unique wagon]

Just when it comes to Campaign, PvP, and SR, he's not up to date.

Thus the "bad" takes. Not bad, just old.

[tropic summit]

hmm i see, probably a personal choice

not everyone wants to mald forever i guess

[swift mango]

No comment because Vesti exist and I bias.

[unique wagon]

Very personal choice so he doesn't have to do PvP TL.

[hollow lagoon]

my union leader still tells me to put OL on liter

[tropic summit]

coward

[unique wagon]

Now, @fathom rock handles Campaign cus he's our best malder.

[tropic summit]

escaping from resposabilities

[unique wagon]

And Snake insists on managing Bossing.

[tropic summit]

you saw his ada clear with ultra pause strat?

[swift mango]

Both S in my tier list. Could put ReiT down because Vesti.

[unique wagon]

Now, I give Retro the duty for PvP because I gave up.

No more TL worries for me.

[hollow lagoon]

freedom from burden is good

[tropic summit]

you've a lot of freedom to unburden yourself from

[unique wagon]

I'm now the team organizer smh.

[tropic summit]

then we agree on something

[unique wagon]

My job is:

• Make to-do list.
• Write char reviews (not all of them).
• Give suggestions.
• Tell Snake to do his job.
• Tell Snake to do his job again.
• Tell Snake it's been 1 month.

[tropic summit]

i don't see "taking feet pics" in the list

[unique wagon]

And:

• Unnecessarily argue tier placements with other staffs.

[tropic summit]

[hollow lagoon]

i havent made solo raid teams yet sigh

why i even bother trying i dont have units with 4 ele

[unique wagon]

Bro, we had someone who said Asuka is A tier for Bossing.

[tropic summit]

officer, this man

[unique wagon]

Of course, I argued.

[tropic summit]

is that someone still staff

[unique wagon]

Yes.

[tropic summit]

oh no.

[unique wagon]

Don't worry, I also had my share of bad ratings.

[hollow lagoon]

asuka needs a cored boss and takes a slot in crown team and its fire weak only...

[tropic summit]

well it's human i guess

there were ppl who said to skip emilia

[unique wagon]

And people who said Jill > Ada.

[tropic summit]

gotta always inform yourself first

[tropic summit]

the. what.

[unique wagon]

Gotta trust Prydwen more than Nikk-

[hollow lagoon]

aethetic wise yes

they aint wrong

[tropic summit]

sir we not asking your bed preferences, but thanks for sharing

[hollow lagoon]

[swift mango]

Nah I don't agree with my sister.

[hollow lagoon]

@tropic summit yes zant i know you are over compensating for rail stealing your sister

[tropic summit]

that's not the name you used last night

[swift mango]

https://tenor.com/view/goddess-of-victory-nikke-doro-meme-knife-gif-13655503135447721047

[unique wagon]

Though, I'm more of a future theorycrafter, while everyone bases on actual data.
Retro seems to be right in the middle, though, so he can mediate.
But my theorycrafting landed me Top 50 in every SR.

[tropic summit]

everyone needs a sister

[glad meteor]

https://tenor.com/view/josh-osuna-baby-jah-gif-23706027

[tropic summit]

wow he's flexing

[hollow lagoon]

nah i'm @umbral belfry i only need Arcana

[glad meteor]

Bizness

[unique wagon]

Of course.

One must flex.

[unique wagon]

But, Retro is a much better gamer than me.

[tropic summit]

i dunno how retro's fingers are still alive

imagine maldin' on deficit on nikke on mobile

[hollow lagoon]

idk, i feel carpel tunnel malding aultria for 7 hours

[swift mango]

You got top 50 every SR on Global? Whale detected.

[glad meteor]

It’s crazy indeed

[tropic summit]

that's just cuz you're 70 years old

[unique wagon]

@fathom rock Where did you go? Your intimate talk with Rail isn't over yet.

[hollow lagoon]

back in me hard 32-32 days i was still playing on mobile

[tropic summit]

don't be jealous now

[unique wagon]

I'm not. I got someone already.

[tropic summit]

i admit i've a preference for retro over you tho

[hollow lagoon]

Rail has been missing for a while now

[fathom rock]

Let me finish

[unique wagon]

[tropic summit]

oh?

kise got married before i knew it

[hollow lagoon]

@tropic summit Zant where's rail?

[tropic summit]

have you looked in a mirror

[swift mango]

First time I know you played nikke. Let alone SR.

[unique wagon]

I cannot respond to this publicly.

[tropic summit]

ha. i actually know but i can't tell either

[swift mango]

[tropic summit]

i shall keep secrets

[swift mango]

I guess he played a community shared whale account.

[unique wagon]

Did someone tell you?

[tropic summit]

no that's just you

[hollow lagoon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1243649696010866791/1311340681314439309/IMG_2587.gif

[swift mango]

That's why he play but also not.

[tropic summit]

nice cindo

[tropic summit]

was this directed to me or blood? if the first, you told me

[fathom rock]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nnqHiLisC2bn2RvuZ5Ut1atfD8QNcEhbpjvrykLincc/edit?usp=drivesdk after some modifying reached this relative to where the others landed
Feels similiar to what we started with ngl

[unique wagon]

In DM?

[tropic summit]

aye

[unique wagon]

I see.

[tropic summit]

bunch of months ago iirc

i respect your privacy tho kise, i won't share

[tropic summit]

oh let's see

[unique wagon]

Teina

[tropic summit]

ah yes Teina, my favourite clip RL

[unique wagon]

This feels wrong to me ngl.

But isn't this just old TL.

[fathom rock]

My vision isn't well it's 12am

[fathom rock]

Dis what I say
It is and it isn't at the same time

[swift mango]

Damn it, finally a line that's usable after 20 rocks.

[tropic summit]

well i'm happy to say, i can actually agree for the most part with this

i added a few comments @fathom rock

[unique wagon]

who

[hollow lagoon]

cent phase1 aint

phase2 and beyond.... wellllll

[fathom rock]

Tactical have partner tag its fine
Centi..... Idk....

[swift mango]

Not that bad.

[unique wagon]

I said do not rate CentiTr till she's fixed duh.

[tropic summit]

honestly i don't see centi being fixed anytime soon

[unique wagon]

She can counter TVesti.

Once fixed.

[fathom rock]

She can also counter my savings
By taking them away

[swift mango]

You can actually use Centi+Cindy to force 2rl. That's useful in CA.

[unique wagon]

And she can counter Emilia.

[tropic summit]

su didn't bother fix poli

they didn't fix viper

[hollow lagoon]

yes so i'm considering phase 2 mine

[tropic summit]

they won't fix centi... will they

[unique wagon]

What the Soda doing in S?

[fathom rock]

Keeping in S feels right to me because that keeps her situational and reflects the disadvantages of actually treasuring her while also showing that isn't not that bad

[unique wagon]

She's only used in 1 comp.

[swift mango]

Idk why people started realizing Cindy decoy extra burst gen can be a plus in CA but not Centi.

Guess people are just stupid.

[unique wagon]

People use Soda randomly on Attack?

[fathom rock]

Rng baiting in that one comp

[hollow lagoon]

[hollow lagoon]

p2 can stun noah so yes?

[fathom rock]

And spa def on my end and it's hell
Rng gonna rng

[unique wagon]

Kek.

[fathom rock]

Very resource intensive to counter or gamba

[unique wagon]

What is Pepper and RRH doing?

[hollow lagoon]

pepp still clipsg gen

[tropic summit]

all clip SG were promoted to A rank

[hollow lagoon]

rrh buffer+dps

[tidal lichen]

i always send rumani nayuta bisc 2x flexes to soda scarlets

[fathom rock]

Pinne still in C

[tropic summit]

RRH we mentioned it earlier

[unique wagon]

Really, a zero burst gen B1.

[tropic summit]

well you know why she's C

[tidal lichen]

saves a lot of resources

[unique wagon]

And better than Liter?

[hollow lagoon]

racism

[tropic summit]

look at her kit as a whole, you know what she does to moran?

[unique wagon]

As B1?

[tropic summit]

you know what she does when indommed?

[unique wagon]

As B1?????????

[tropic summit]

as B1 @fathom rock

[hollow lagoon]

i still use rrh b1 over liter

[tropic summit]

i thought we talked about B3

[fathom rock]

[tropic summit]

@unique wagon he's sleepy, forgive the man

[hollow lagoon]

@tropic summit anyone started after me gonna need big question mark to put OL on liter and use her for pvp

[swift mango]

Soda is actually better on DEF when you feel lucky. Annoying to counter.

[hollow lagoon]

and if anyone OLed liter for whatever reason is cus of outdated tierlists

[swift mango]

Or may just does nothing

[unique wagon]

Now now RRH in B is still a bit projecting no?

[swift mango]

No one care about B tier

[unique wagon]

Apparently someone called RAILTRACER did

[swift mango]

He doesn't either tbf

[fathom rock]

What do you want her to be, C?

[swift mango]

[unique wagon]

Idk ur C is empty af

[fathom rock]

That C gonna have ludmilla and milk

[unique wagon]

Sigh

Milk is more useless than Lud though

[tropic summit]

well if they running liter with lib or scarler it's actually still within reasonable

[tropic summit]

there's noone called railtracer here

[unique wagon]

I assume non treasured Milk

[swift mango]

Ludmilla is actually better than Milk.

[fathom rock]

Can see that, arranging C tier is unironically easy bc d and below is straight garbage

[tropic summit]

B1 RRH fits in B leaning A, compared to other buff only B1s

[unique wagon]

Also why is Pepper A

[tropic summit]

B3 RRH is the one we talked about

[hollow lagoon]

Yeah I do t have infinite resources to OL a non scaling unit Kekw

[unique wagon]

are we saying Pepper > Liter/MirT?

[swift mango]

There is a railtracerv2

[fathom rock]

Clip + heal + used to beat KK and the other guy

[tropic summit]

i know it was a long time ago when you were synchro 160, but everyone used to have liter as main B1 and would be used to combo with nukers

[unique wagon]

Fair ig

[tropic summit]

until they'd find a better B1 option anyhow

[unique wagon]

BUT SAME TIER AS SOLINEFT?

[fathom rock]

I uh can't bring myself to out soline S just fir CA

[swift mango]

Not me. I never OL Liter.

[tropic summit]

yes, she gives burst gen, way more useful in general purposes than a B1 buffer which you may not need if you already have a B2 buffer that ensures lethal, calm your tatas

[swift mango]

[unique wagon]

[swift mango]

[tropic summit]

https://klipy.com/gifs/getout-28

[glad meteor]

Scar rapu soline makes wuick work of vesti indom

[hollow lagoon]

Ur looking at the one guy that rouge b1 u till rapi b1 and then siren b1

[tropic summit]

you've been through hell

[unique wagon]

Just move RH B1 to A