Extended Defensive Strucutres

[drifting stirrup]

I didn't see anyone else make a post on this so i thought i might.

Currently in game,there is only one dedicated defensive structure,that being a measle 12.7mm Pillbox.This does offer some variation in gameplay as it often requires a good degree of munitions,or dedicated bunker busting munitions to take them down.This structure is mainly capable of engaging ground targets,given its limited elevation it doesn't pose much of a risk for aircraft.Even if for most occasions,fixed emplacements are always inferior to mobile ones,i wanted to highlight a few different possibilities that future structures could have if the devs entretained the idea of adding them in.Their roles in battle would vary slightly,so i've decided to divide them into three categories:

Anti-Ground:
This takes the shape of pillboxes,bunkers,artillery emplacements and even ground based cruise missile sites.Their aim would be to deter,deny and/or slow down the advancements of enemies,with perhaps some offensive capabilities too,for the cruise missiles.
Anti-Air:
These mainly range from Radar sites,Launch sites for SAM munitions,Anti Air Artillery,and CIWS.These could both serve as central pillars to a team's air defense,or small stopgaps that would aid in plugging easily exploitable routes (As in flak sites for low flying aircraft that lob nukes late game,Reinforced Radar sites around which much of the intel of a team would be provided,and so on.)
Anti-Ship:
These easily fall under either Coastal Artillery,or Ground Launched Anti Ship missiles.The former would often only work to cover straits and critical passages were enemy ships,often landing ships or small vessels would try to cross,and the latter more meant as a way for pressure to be exerted against unprotected vessels.This latter one would probably have to wait until there's a bit more variety in terms of naval Units.
As always,let me know if i missed anything that you think is needed too!

[hasty stirrup]

the pill box as was a every old asset set piece that was added in mostly as visual / map greeble.

that said, they could be expanded on some what as long as they stay away from Ace combat levels of silly

[drifting stirrup]

I doubt we'd get to the level of defensive megastructures that Ace combat has emplyed more than once.

[harsh acorn]

We already have radar sites, but it might be nice to have some little emplacements with an ATGM launcher or MANPADS, maybe placed as part of road outposts or something.

[last anchor]

Hardened radar site
Static artillery site / bunker
Pillbox with AT gun
Pillbox with AT missile
Heavy naval artillery
They've been all requested, some may get into the game at some point 😉

[naive trench]

pragmatic question: how do you harden a radar site?

you could have an aperture for the radar but that would still be a giant hole you could land something in ala death star exhaust port

[last anchor]

I would say : phased array antenna.
The building can be a large structure made of concrete, with the sides covered with thousands of small antenna elements in an array.
These do not require a large opening in the concrete structure, only a cable entry on each face for power to and signal from the array.

A few lynchpin hits would only scratch the concrete and if we assume they remove only a few elements, the radar will remain operational.
You'll need an auger to take down the whole building in a single blow, or multiple smaller hits to disable the arrays.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phased_array

[solar blaze]

That's rather interesting, actually.

I'd honestly like to see some towed defensive units, like the M167
We don't really have a proper 'minigun AA' yet so it'd be pretty snazzy
Could have it sitting stationary in relatively remote areas, or towed by recon trucks if that's ever added

Maybe make a 'hardened' version by concreting it down and storing more ammo underneath

[last anchor]

Indeed, there could be more 'semi static' AA defences, such as towed M167 or ZSU23, acting similar to the current Strato R9 launchers.
This is a different discussion, but these will also need a towing mechanism, so that ground vehicles such as HLT Tractor / Flatbed could move them around the map...

[solar blaze]

Convoys dragging around AA to rebuild bombed out areas as they advance
Maybe have pre-select areas they stop and deploy stuff on enroute, like in the midfield valley

[regal harbor]

How about autocannons firing airburst (flak let’s be honest) shells?
Edit: Had a feeling that was already in

[harsh acorn]

That's literally Anvil

[karmic dune]

BOFORS guns? S60 for example

[vague maple]

The stratolances is really just a S300/Patriot analogue

[torpid reef]

Baghdad Desert Storm bombing experience. Wont do much but at least would be cool to look at

[torpid reef]

Waay too short ranged compared compared to them, actually. It is closer to Buk and Hawk.

[vague maple]

Eh fair

[torpid reef]

And even in 2070s longer ranged SAMs would still be viable, just with ARH. You could still see stealth aircraft with some clever data processing, multiple spaced out radars and right wavelength

[vague maple]

ARH is still expensive

[olive pawn]

this would be really cool would make for much more extensive base building options and make bases feel way more filled out

[hasty stirrup]

jokes on you, i WANT stonehenge

[hasty stirrup]

this is AESA

[last anchor]

Indeed :
"AESA's main use is in radar, and these are known as active phased array radar (APAR)"
What's particularly interesting is that it is supposed to be much harder to jam : "Jamming is likewise much more difficult against an AESA."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_electronically_scanned_array

[hasty stirrup]

with a proper datalink you can have the receiver aircraft in a different position, much closer than the transmitter aircraft/ship.

so the F-35 can have its radar off, with a passive listening datalink via satelite to an AWACS plane 400 miles from the front, and see its target like it has its own radar on.

and the target doesn't even know its being tracked.

the crux of the AEGIS radar system

[last anchor]

To be honest, this is more or less what we have currently in game : a Cricket without a radar or direct LOS with a unit can see it marked on its minimap and select it as a target, as long as another unit can detect the said unit with a radar or optical sensor.
Same applies for a Revoker flying high with its radar off...

[granite gull]

I was thinking exactly this

[drifting stirrup]

I mean closest we might ever get would be something like a beefed up iron dome

[granite gull]

Just talk to @abstract furnace they make some interesting fortifications with the current offerings, specifically the beach defence bunkers

[abstract furnace]

#1131013817011294249 message

[chrome belfry]

How about a containerized C2 & electronic intelligence system? Able to detect, triangulate, and jam emissions across the electromagnetic spectrum. Also able to relay friendly comms; the powerful communications systems allowing you to locally burn through enemy jamming to issue commands to drones and other nearby units.

It would be considered a defensive structure due to the home turf advantage it gives, especially for secluded or encircled locations. It's pretty cumbersome and expensive, so you're not exactly going to send it on the offensive.

It could also be a requirement for capturing airfields (and a target to disrupt them). Though I'm not as sure about this.

I wouldn't expect it to have any kind of hard-kill active protection systems, but it could have soft-kill systems, like a short range dazzler laser for use against optical guided ordinance (which could also be its own unit). In addition to more omnidirectional passive protection systems.

[regal harbor]

Medusa laser bunker

[hasty stirrup]

honestly, if the stratolances only worked off of a truck+a c2+a generator, in batteries of like 4? that would be more realistic

[mighty minnow]

Real

[regal harbor]

YES

[regal harbor]

Hey if warships can have railguns why not bunkers or mobile ones on trucks

(The truck ones would need a bunch of support equipment like generator trucks and stuff to work)

And armored vehicles equipped with lasers are in the prototype stages right now

[mighty minnow]

lmao what have I started

[last anchor]

Not fond of mega structures, I don't think they fit with the game's scope and background...

[regal harbor]

anyway all I was thinking of is a little pillbox with a laser on the roof to shoot down missiles over an area

jam it with a medusa and hit it with pab-80s or something

[hasty stirrup]

yes, BUT, rule of cool.

[drifting stirrup]

In general military terms,yes they wouldn't make sense....BUT

A lot of those COULD be feasible,if scaled down sligthly,and focused at targets equally expensive to the investment that they would pose.

Ergo a massive laser tower COULD work as an air defense megastructure,albeit its range would probably be incredibly neutered (maybe 20-30km effective range,after which it'd start to drop off?it'd hinge on how big it actually would be)
Then again,I'm not a supporter of them anyways,so yeah booo

[last anchor]

Can't blame you, I completely get the cool factor !
We might get some large naval / land based laser, maybe some cool larger structures, we'll see what the devs are up to 😉

[full quest]

based

[granite gull]

https://tenor.com/view/finger-quotes-drevil-austin-powers-gif-4977116026647296917

[regal harbor]

laser air defense:
https://tenor.com/view/lasers-rave-festival-gif-5271135

[deft harbor]

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1270589194389028996

[mighty minnow]

bump

[drifting stirrup]

Now that the new map is in the works,the idea of fortified coastal defenses for PALA strongholds could be a pretty fun addition

[mighty minnow]

Faction-specific artillery systems would lowkey go so hard. Maybe one side gets MLRS/Rocket Artillery and the other side gets gun-based traditional artillery. I'll leave yall to decide who gets what.

Alternatively, both sides could have the option to have both kinds of artillery for more mission-making variety.

Gun-based artillery, being an older, yet reliable and cost-effective artillery solution could be given to the BDF, to align with their reasoning.

[drifting stirrup]

PALA has the possibility of having a mix of the old and new, much like Taiwan perhaps it has deterred enemies from specific strategic locations through the use of hardened even if outdated defensive structures, though now that they posess such wealth they could also employ a variety of cutting edge systems ( think a mix of things like artillery systems like Pz2000 and ATACMS with stuff like Black dragon and other dated systems that still hold some weight today.

The BDF on the other hand has been able of refining their doctrine for much longer, so its possible they could hold domain over a particular set of weaponry systems. Are they focused around high performance missiles?(Iskanders,Kalibr, SM-64 Navaho, ASLAMs...) maybe they're a superior firepower enthusiast? (Mix of Artillery systems focused around delivering a lot of hurt very quickly and cheaply,Both MLRS like Smerch, Grads or LARS, and Self propelled artillery like 2S1s, Paladin's and so on

[drifting stirrup]

Thing is that Artillery is the comparatively cheaper option when compared to MLRS, but the BDF seems to be the more offensive oriented faction. If this is the case then a case can be made that they would favour rocket systems over conventional artillery, since they can better saturate areas in a shorter period of time.

They'd still employ both types of system, but we could see a focus in more advanced/ better systems when looking at their rocket artillery when compared to their regular gun carriers (which could still have a role, perhaps in a counter battery/ defensive support)

[mighty minnow]

So long as whatever comes of this fits well with the current doctrines and spending habits of both countries, i'll be happy

[drifting stirrup]

I can't really try to conjure up possible systems either side would employ since we don't really have enough lore set in stone regarding the two factions. Best i can do is give some pointers at what would be nice to consider when they do add said systems

[drowsy mason]

The issue with coastal artillery is that it is artillery, and can fire at everything. Including tanks or other AFVs. And is probably a pretty mean flak gun as well.
The other kind of coatal artillery is an AShM battery which, guess what is a cruise missile and can target the ground.

[olive pawn]

just haw a group of soldiers running around with laser pens pointing them at the pore chicane pilots