General Thread

[warm quiver]

I just realised you could have a multiple choice mission if you can have objectives run simultaneously

that would take so much work to flesh out but it could be a thing

"pick one of these three targets [...] Okay, you're going for that one?"
[ends the two other target objectives]
"strike it and move on to the follow-ups"

[warm quiver]

Will AI aircraft attempt to reach waypoint objectives for their own team?

even though said waypoints can only be triggered by players

[dense pebble]

hm

dunno

[warm quiver]

the answer is no

damn, that makes it harder for me

[topaz locust]

They go to the closest objective unless valid targets exist

[last sable]

it would be great if you could set a threshold for using any weapon not just nukes

[gritty willow]

this will be possible later on when we add extra objective/outcomes, there's plans to add one that will add/remove weapon restrictions

[red grail]

that would be great

[untold plover]

Do you need factories creating aircraft in order for the AI to spawn aircraft at friendly runways?

[warm quiver]

Yeah, that or give them a starting inventory

[warm quiver]

Surely there's a better way of adding units to a target/spawn list

I've gotta be missing something this is too tedious

[red grail]

If I give units to a faction inventory, how fast will the AI deploy them : all at once, or one every x seconds ?

[warm quiver]

they spawn as soon as a spawn is available

[red grail]

Ok good to know, thanks

[humble compass]

I be having an issue where vehicles are ordered to go to an objective, but instead they initially clump up for no reason until the objective activating their order is completed, where they make a beeline for the ocean to die. I have no idea why its happening.

[hardy linden]

the objective is probably past the ocean and there arent any roads leading there

[humble compass]

I'm telling them to go to Highway Strip 2, and it used to work, before they suddenly started the clumping behaviour

[tacit prawn]

is there anyway to make the AI skill so bad that they just fire and miss the entire time? I'm trying to make an ambient ground battle during a mission

[hardy linden]

put it at 0 skill, their turrets will rotate very slowly and they wont track targets well

cannot do more than that

any slight maneuvering should be enough to not take any damage

[tacit prawn]

is there a reason why I cannot give a unique name to the preplaced buildings? I'm trying to make a destroy obj on airfield infrastructure but I can't seem to do it unless its a building I put down.

[tacit prawn]

this works , cheers!

[warm quiver]

Pre-placed buildings straight up can't be modified for now

So you'll need to put down new buildings, or units next to the target buildings

[patent fern]

could use some opinions in #1140959119923236876 if anyone is passing by - trying to bring the mission back to life

[brittle sorrel]

i'm looking for a few missions in which have a lot of ground vehicles on both teams, and a lot of ai aircraft
pvp or pve, both are fine

i just find that vanilla escalation is really easy/empty

[brittle sorrel]

sure! ill test it in a day or two when im not busy

[patent fern]

true

[patent fern]

nah i dont need anything tested atm was just needing some opinions for something

no big

[young sparrow]

Hi there. I'm looking to modify the escalation game mode to allow the helicopter to be available from the start. So far the only option I've found is increasing the rank the players start with. Is there some way to lower the rank requirement for each vehicle?

[final pulsar]

Not currently

[humble compass]

it is unfortunately not possible to alter the rank for aircraft

[young sparrow]

Cool, thanks for the info. Hopefully that gets added soon.

[warm quiver]

Gonna host my custom mission c:
#1185479562092617738 message

okay apparently its broken ffs

apparently AI behaviour is different in singleplayer vs multiplayer

[warm quiver]

Okay I think I have it in an acceptable state now

[warm quiver]

this is so cool people are ignoring the obj

[warm quiver]

Simultaneous objectives work, right? I should be able to set up a main objective with some side ones to do on the way?

[topaz locust]

multiple objectives and branching/interdependent objectives are possible

[warm quiver]

Veeeery nice.

[warm quiver]

Running another test of my custom mission, here's hoping it doesn't break like last time lmao

[warm quiver]

Even though simultaneous objectives are a thing, then don't display as such

if its a "destroy units" obj

because it'll take up all 3 active markers

[final pulsar]

any more than 3 markers fills the hud up too much to be useful

some people like really long objective text for their objectives......

[warm quiver]

I just wish it would pick 3 different things to display instead of the same obj

[final pulsar]

it really depends if the objective is detected or not

undetected objectives show the general area until they are spotted (why they look stacked)

stock escalation does this as well with final objectives unless they are spotted first

[warm quiver]

the fact they stack at all in that state is kinda annoying though

[warm quiver]

1.0 of my mission is out
https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1185479562092617738

[topaz locust]

I jumped through some hoops to make the objectives display as they do - usually the requirements for destroying stuff is kept invisible while another objective provides the markers.

(Specifically in the two newest missions)

I haven't touched the others yet

I'll look at how they're displayed and see what can be done

[warm quiver]

With how my mission is set up, two "destroy units" objectives end up running at the same time, one showing up later and overriding the first objective's markers

Once that (and its follow up obj) is completed, the markers go back to the first objective, so it's not totally scuffed or anything

[clever star]

how do i set up an airbase to spawn at? just staring out by making a simple freeflight mission

[obtuse wadi]

place a ground vehicle with a faction at the airbase, it'll capture it

[clever star]

ta

[final pulsar]

Is there a way to have a placed unit respawn without placing duplicates of them in the editor? I tried starting the spawn objective again and the timer counted down, but nothing spawned when it finished. The units spawned correctly the first time.

[topaz locust]

objectives can only be started once, but outcomes can be used multiple times

so you can use the same spawn vehicle outcome from different objectives

[dense pebble]

If anyone needs any large scale or high part builds for a custom mission, I'll be open to help / build what ya need

I really gotta find simmering to cure my boredom

[hardy linden]

make stonehedge from ace combat 4 and 7

[dense pebble]

I'm going to kill you

You got a mission planned around it though?

[hardy linden]

I will make what we planned to make some time ago if you make it

[dense pebble]

Sounds like a deal

(We might have to make 2 separate versions btw)

(Solo and multiplayer)

[hardy linden]

nahhh

[dense pebble]

If we want decent quality builds, it's going to force the game into solo only mode

(Full mp break)

Anyways

Eepy time for me

[hardy linden]

you can always downsize it a bit ig

[final pulsar]

Are there any plans to change this? Its very difficult to make a fully dynamic mission if I have to set a new objective every time a base changes hands.

Bases that change hands more than once aren't targetable, sometimes you can use use the center of the map and spam the lock button but that doesn't always work especially of more than one base has flip flopped

[final pulsar]

I dont think that would be an issue with what I want to do, as new assets would be spawned when a base is taken.(So you wouldnt have to target any original assets after the first time) But without being able to repeat objectives I dont think its possible to make a proper dynamic CTI mission.

[hardy linden]

in theory you can, but with a limited amount of captures

[final pulsar]

Yeah, but it would be a flow chart marathon with so many edge cases you would have to be insane to try lol. especially because I wanted to use various waypoints to allow players choose what reinforcements/sam sites/etc to set up based on the state of the map

[final pulsar]

The hard coded spawnable bases would have this issue.

[final pulsar]

but if the objective is for assets that are spawned in couldnt you just spawn a ground vehicle there and it will change hands? No need for the original assets to be targeted at all.

[hardy linden]

vehicles dont change sides

only preset buildings do

[final pulsar]

yeah..use the vehicle to flip thew base

It would still function, but there is a bug where spawn point building targeting data gets stuck at 0,0,0

[final pulsar]

if that only affects built in assets then that deosnt effect what I want to do...I tink

Sends the ai in the middle of the ocean

ah. Will the ai ignore waypoints when this occurs?

I know the planes really don't follow them, ground units generally do unless a player give them a direction

[final pulsar]

Then I can use waypoints to get around that bug(maybe). Still doesnt help with the objective issue though. Maybe I could just use multiple objectives that respawn smaller amounts of assets to represent a loss of IC or something. Thank you for your insight.

[hardy linden]

using waypoints isnt too good

very painful, doesnt work on depot spawned units

use it as a last resort

[final pulsar]

tbh if I move forward with this Im looking at making over 30 objectives. Whats a little more pain when your already eating a sandwich made of pain? lol

[hardy linden]

setting waypoints far away is the most painful thing, after trying to rotate things in the 4 axis rotation thing

[final pulsar]

Can you rotate assets? I was only able to figure out how to move them. For waypoints I just make sure my camera is where I want it

[hardy linden]

yes

kinda funny you havent noticed thats a thing

click on a unit and look in top right

[final pulsar]

Just cant find where to click lol, Im not unfamiliar with mission editors

[hardy linden]

play around with the buttons

[final pulsar]

oh I thought it would be on the object with the movement functions

[topaz locust]

My intention is that escalation essentially becomes a CTI gamemode and that this is supported by the editor

In ye olde linear objective system, I made a quasi-CTI where each team advances their frontline around the map clockwise. I used some json tools to cut down the workload for the extra objectives.

Currently, this could be done again but using the new system you start all the first capture objectives at once.

I want to introduce a system for making capture points that will complement the current objective system and work with the HQ system to move reinforcements around, so that doing this via the editor is not insane

[final pulsar]

Thats great to hear. Cant wait to see what you come up with.

[red grail]

Please, also provide units waypoints (instead of faction wide), for both air and ground units

[echo thistle]

Question to mission makers or devs. What does Min and Max Sortie size affect in faction settings?

[dense pebble]

Ok so

If you land at base after killing stuff, you get extra points

It's called a sortie bonus

[echo thistle]

Yeah, that one I know, but I'm asking about this one

It should theoretically affect amount of spawned units in a group, but I would like to know precisely

[obtuse wadi]

that is actually a deprecated feature at the moment, so it won't do anything. When we improve the way each HQ handles AI spawning, it will control the threshold for launching groups of planes

[echo thistle]

Cheers, for the response! This will be very nice to have. Also, is there a way to prevent bots from acting before at least one player joins faction? Cause sometimes I would rather wait for people to join in a public hosted game than launch straightaway (if a mission relies on a certain amount of players).

Having a way to start the scenario from wait screen would be nice to have

[obtuse wadi]

you could use a position trigger to begin the mission

a hidden trigger that covers the map should only trigger once a player joins in an aircraft

[echo thistle]

Makes sense, will try it out. Thanks for the tip

Also, as a dev myself, I would like to compliment the network system you've implemented. Experienced 0 issues in multiplayer so far, never had a desync or any sort of bug despite objects moving at pretty nasty velocities. Really impressive work 💪

[obtuse wadi]

that's mostly thanks to @gritty willow , he's done a great job of improving the network stability 🙂

[echo thistle]

Absolute legend

Keep up the good work guys, your project is very promising

Really enjoying it so far

Also, love the default Unity UI buttons, made me chuckle

[hardy linden]

planning to make an escalation ish mission with essentially a warmup that wont have much impact on the round so that you can start once some people join without them leaving due to boredom, you can probably designing something like that

if you want any tips on how to do that you can ping me

[echo thistle]

Cheers! I'll keep it in mind. I'm all set for now though, solution provided by @obtuse wadi was more than sufficient. All I needed was just so AI won't do much to the objectives before players join

And since it's coop and players start at the disadvantage, It could lead to potential destruction of friendly assets before players even join

Depends on how long you have to wait tho, wouldn't affect an actual premade group. But sometimes you have to wait a fair bit for a public game to fill in

[hardy linden]

indeed

something like a bunch of filler enemies at the start, before any big airbases are unlocked may be a good way to keep players waiting

cause not everyone will want to wait for people

[echo thistle]

Fair point

[hardy linden]

wish there was a way to change a point gain multiplier via objective outcomes now

youd be able to make it so no/very little points are awarded during the warmup

[echo thistle]

Additional ways of actually completing the said objectives would be nice as well

Cause so far it's just destroying units and entering a trigger

[hardy linden]

doing a diffrent objective can finish one too

tho what else could it be?

[echo thistle]

Having trigger count % of enemy to friendly ratio would make much more sense for capturing something

[hardy linden]

ig

a destroy % of enemies objective would be useful too

[echo thistle]

Just destroying a specific unit is pretty barebones

[hardy linden]

true

[echo thistle]

But again, it's too early to judge for that, game is still in development and devs are competent

Pretty sure they have the ideas

In default escalation, you can destroy 1 unit on the airfield and auto complete it

If you know which one it is, it becomes trivial

It can be countered by adding additional targets that need to be destroyed I think

[hardy linden]

yeah, thats the most obvious fix

maybe the only simple one

[candid abyss]

is there a way to disable AI spawning?

[obtuse wadi]

if the faction doesn't have any aircraft in its inventory or factories producing those aircraft, it won't spawn AI aircraft

[candid abyss]

does that also prevent players from spawning?

[obtuse wadi]

no, the only way to prevent players from spawning is to add aircraft to the restrictions list

[candid abyss]

alright, thanks

[warm quiver]

Or you can set it so players can't join that team

[quick elm]

Anyone know what the "CrashAircraft" objective is supposed to be? theres a lives counter so i assumed it triggers when you and/ or your buddies die a certain number of times. but I cant trigger it in testing.
photo for context:

[hardy linden]

its unused right now

[warm quiver]

It doesn't do anything, refer to #1131013817011294249 message for details on all the mission editor objective and outcome types

[quick elm]

Thanks

[last sable]

One neat feature would be to be able to edit/move world objects like preplaced hangars and such

[clever flame]

Wtf

2169 comments?

[dense pebble]

Yeah?

This is the map makers central

[terse goblet]

this place is how to use mission editor and other things 101

[clever flame]

Ok

[north moon]

can you capture enemy airbases?

or set that up?

also - how to rotate?

[final pulsar]

yes

send a ground unit

rather place it down with team faction in editor

there is a rotate button top right screen

[north moon]

I mean once the game has started-

[final pulsar]

send a ground unit

once you clear out theirs

[north moon]

you can give them commands?! Man I wish this had a wiki already hahaha

[final pulsar]

there is an unoffial one

[strange arrow]

is there a way i can delete map objects? or assign them to one of the teams?

[warm quiver]

not map objects no, but they're capturable by default so just plonk a ground unit next to one and it'll capture the base

[hardy linden]

@dense pebble what do you think about creating an O.P.A.N. - OverPowered Aerial Nexus?

[dense pebble]

Hehehehe @soft heart

[soft heart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/983414272065421354/984056558294007818/caption.gif

[dense pebble]

I hate that I have done this

[warm quiver]

funy

[dense pebble]

I want an l3/33 base

[dense pebble]

Also-

I new version of the nexus will be made sometime in the next few months

[hardy linden]

roblox, eh?

[patent fern]

this keeps crashing my discord

[terse goblet]

mine's fine

why would it

[soft heart]

weird

i run my discord mainly on my browser

[dense pebble]

I run mine off the old mobile

[dense pebble]

It's that roblox tank game, asu-57 chassis with a massive gun being mounted on it :)

[patent fern]

same

[dense pebble]

Android?

[patent fern]

yes

[last sable]

When an ai runs out of ordonnance, it rtb right?

[hardy linden]

yes

[last sable]

Great

[final pulsar]

yeah, but it has to be completely empty, including guns

[last sable]

Nocs made me want to finish my Olympics of N.O.

[patent fern]

gave me a motivation to work on RTWR 6 for the first time in months

still workshopping a new name for that

[obtuse wadi]

@patent fern Just pushed a small update that should fix vehicle depot priority

[patent fern]

i'll check it when i get the chance

[patent fern]

it appears to be fixed, that and putting a tiny construction delay between each ground vehicle means now 99% of them spawn in the right spot

thank you

so i heard you were supposed to be able to mess with the road editor yourself in the mission editor now, but i'm not sure how to work it

was hoping to fix the issue of there being no roadmapping on this road

its not a huge deal if it has to remain missing, but was kind of hopeful

[true falcon]

looks like a race circuit

[obtuse wadi]

yeah, good variety of corners there

[candid abyss]

how do i get a convoy to follow roads? first image is editor, second image is game

[candid abyss]

nevermind, that area just isn't mapped

[patent fern]

you can create your own roadmapping in the mission editor

if you go to the road viewer, go to mission paths, find a starting node and shift-click, you should then be able to see a line stretching to your cursor, you can then click to place mini-nodes along the road that will cause vehicles to follow it when in the area, and then hit spacebar to end the road wherever you need it

[candid abyss]

that works, but now they aren't really staying together

it mostly sorts itself out but the back few vehicles have trouble

spreading them out only helped a bit

[dusky raven]

Heya, y'all got any tips for someone who wants to try making a custom mission for some friends and I to play together?

[dense pebble]

Don't put down to much AA in one spot

Especially spaag

[molten orbit]

Hey fellows, I have an extremely dummy question. How does one install those custom missions?

Or share, in case I wuld find a way to make one

[patent fern]

you download the posted mission file and put it into your game's missions folder

which is in appdata\locallow\shockfront\nuclearoption

[dreamy peak]

you can open this folder in the game as well, >missions >open user folder

[hardy linden]

I can see I probably should've boosted the how to download custom missions post more

[celest forge]

Does pathfinding for vehicles work in the upper part of the map? I have vehicle depots right before the bridge between the two Boscoli airfields. Every time a vehicle spawns, they just chill and stack at the depot.

[hardy linden]

yeah thats not a lack of road nodes issue, it's caused by a lack of objectives they could pathfind to

[celest forge]

intriguing

[hardy linden]

so you need to give them a destroy units/reach units/reach waypoints objective

[celest forge]

which they have. which is why im confused

[hardy linden]

yeah sometimes that may happen, i guess

did you start the objective?

that may be the issue

also they need to see the units (have them on DL) to be able to pathfind to them

if it's a destroy units objective

[celest forge]

What do ya mean by have them on DL. My first objective for the game is them reaching a waypoint to capture one of the bases. They should see the point to capture but i suppose i can stick some recon trucks down or something along the lines of it

[dreamy peak]

On DL(Datalink) means that the enemy unit is visible on the map for that faction

you can do this by placing a cricket with no weapons next to the objective units for example

[topaz locust]

Press F2 and make sure the objective is active. Objectives need to be started via an Outcome. Fire the first Outcome from the pre-existing "Mission Start" objective.

[quick elm]

wait, the unit has to be in DL even if the objective isnt hidden? i just kinda assumed if the target is marked by objective the AI kinda knows what to do.

[dreamy peak]

nope, it just does that

if you have factories for your ground units they will accumulate in a large orb on the map view

[quick elm]

Not sure this is the right place to post but here goes:

I have an asymmetrical PvP mission (escalation style, basically lots of cheap planes for PALA vs a much smaller balanced team for BDF) and im not sure how to keep things semi-balanced while also giving players a reason to join PALA. Originally I had locked off the revoker and darkreach but I decided to unlock those since it resulted in everyone joining BDF. But now PALA is definitely going to be OP in PvP and needs to be scaled back a bit. Any ideas and feedback is appreciated but here's a few ideas I'm considering (this is for PALA only):

• Restricting the darkreach, since its most expensive and not as popular as revoker.
• Restricting cruise missiles if the darkreach stays in
• Restricting all nuclear weapons

As a side note, I kinda wish there was per faction rank options, or even different nuclear thresholds for each team, but I'm sure it wont make a big difference in the upcoming updates. It would be so much easier to balance this particular map out though.

[dense pebble]

leave everything open and let people enjoy

[quick elm]

honestly probably the easiest way lol

[terse goblet]

no matter what i'm always joining pala

[dense pebble]

Unless the team is un-even and a side is losing

Than we chose to fight against the winning side

[terse goblet]

yeah

[topaz locust]

If you need to push the fight in a particular direction, have some AI spawns triggered by the destruction of something. Ie: PALA takes out any of a collection of units triggers more BDF planes to pop in.

[warm quiver]

Consider restricting or opening up more directions of attack per team, by giving them less or more airfields, or by building up defences along certain lanes

Also sometimes the more capable team can be put through an early grind (be it points or whittling down defenses) to keep them at bay while the less-capable team builds up enough momentum to fully confront them

I've been thinking about making a major-vs-minor-power asymmetric style pvp mission, and lots of redundancy and fallbacks are a must for a minor power

Side note, it would be cool if there was a way to punish players for hitting (specified) neutral targets..
encourage precision/add difficulty to attacking an otherwise lightly defended area

[quick elm]

Thats kinda what i did. I gave PALA both highway strips and naval/ south. I figured it was a good way to take advantage of the volume of aircraft and make up for not initially having more expensive options. Honestly this mission plays out more like a co-op mission but i thought it'd be cool to have players on the enemy team too.

Also i might do some event triggers for another mission ala Squeegy's idea.

[topaz locust]

@cloud sparrow Place a vehicle on an airbase to capture it for that team. Assigning ownership explicitly is not a feature yet.

[red grail]

I really hope the most important part is "not a feature yet"...

[hardy linden]

I dont think that would be too useful

you can always place some unarmed unit to make it change ownership

[red grail]

Well, you can't edit or refer to Map object in objectives

That's a pain and if it becomes a feature, a lot of missions will be easier/ possible

[tardy sparrow]

anyone knows how to deliver bombs properly even from distance?

[patent fern]

this isnt the best place to ask vs #general, but

if you lock a target you get a CCRP hud with direction and a time cue to drop, lock on and fly to target until you get within 5-10 seconds on that timer (can do more but risks missing) and drop and it should virtually always hit, unless you dropped super awkwardly

[tardy sparrow]

yeah okay but how i have to aim with the bar?

the aim bar with one arrow at the bottom of the bar and the other arrow at the top of the bar

[hardy linden]

ignore the arrows

just drop at 5-1

if its below 0 its too late

[patent fern]

dont, just fly toward the target and watch the time cue

[tardy sparrow]

okay 5-1 what?

[tardy sparrow]

alright

[hardy linden]

5-1 on the timer

[tardy sparrow]

okay thx

[gray yew]

I'm currently trying to create a mission where neutral radar stations can be captured by chicanes, aiming to give them more purpose. I'm using waypoints to spawn AI near them. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a workaround for AI units to ignore waypoints.

[topaz locust]

vehicles with "Hold position" will ignore objectives, but would then need their own waypoint set up on the vehicle. AI aircraft will only follow objectives until there is any target on datalink that they can engage successfully with the weapons they have.

there isn't a way to make vehicles from depots ignore objectives yet

or have certain objectives be ignored

[gray yew]

Thanks for the info!

[warm quiver]

I wish there was a distance-measuring tool

or HLT Radar/Tanker/Munitions trucks projected a radius when selected

[topaz locust]

I stuck that on a list to do at some point when I found myself cheating by using the unity editor

[hardy linden]

all ground units could have radiuses of the ranges of all their weapons

[molten orbit]

@warm quiver your Co-op SP is a total treat, thank you for making it

Can't wait for the update to try Medusa on those insane AA nests

[warm quiver]

Thank you for joining!
Oh also if you have any specific feedback, let me know

[warm quiver]

hey cool the editor doesn't limit placed aircraft alt at 1000m anymore

I also can't turn my camera around

[final pulsar]

reset your controls

[warm quiver]

aw man

[warm quiver]

did already-placed custom roads get removed with this update

it seems like it

[full cloak]

no they got merged with the pre-placed roads

[brave veldt]

Why did you remove my mission thread "Simple WWII-like"? :(
I didn't have backup of that mission

[terse goblet]

uhm

mate

https://ptb.discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1172804256307347507

[brave veldt]

Oh, Discord didn't find it when I've tried

Thank you

[terse goblet]

np

[topaz locust]

A guide for factories: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3182588110

[final pulsar]

is there some tutorials for making a custom mission ?

[warm quiver]

Gotta make a mission with few radar AA assets and scattered SPAAGs so people can unleash hell with the new bombs

Bonus points if there's dense industrial complexes and/or vehicle assembly areas

[jade dawn]

what part of the vehicle depot needs to be above ground?

any part or is there a specific thing

[topaz locust]

the entrance to the garage & the painted area infront of it

[dreamy peak]

this part, probably

[hardy linden]

I like how they just materialize on this marked spot

[jade dawn]

3 questions
do purely AI factions need missions still? will they just go and attack whatever or do the missions give them some kind of priority

Does equipping enemies from the editor override weapon restrictions?

is there a way to disable bases that i dont want to be active?
i.e. if i dont want to use the western side of the map

[dense pebble]

Last one is a no last time I checked

[patent fern]

-they need an objective to function at all, but they don't zerg an objective, they'll attack anything in sight, but without an objective they just eject out
-yes it does
-no, you unfortunately cannot, i wish you could but its a sad no

[topaz locust]

they need either enemies on datalink which they can engage with the weapons they have, or an objective, or they RTB. If there is no base to return to, then they eject.

by default the bases have no ownership, so they'll only receive a team if a vehicle comes to and captures them

(there is no way to prevent them being able to do this currently)

but they dont seek to capture themselves - they need a waypoint or objective that takes them through the airbase to capture it

[full cloak]

tried making an armored train at SBGA

[dreamy peak]

not to be insulting but if i had to guess a train would be the last thing to come to mind

[full cloak]

keyword tried

well, gameplay wise it'll work, trust

[dreamy peak]

https://tenor.com/view/ahtf-gif-5633413

[last sable]

To his behalf it's really hard

[full cloak]

I made some changes

well, with a giant mission objective marker that says "DESTROY ARMORED TRAIN" over it it should be fine

[celest forge]

Has anyone experimented much with the Add Roads feature that was added?

[final pulsar]

as they try to move to evade, rolls and dies...

[full cloak]

yeah I fixed that

it kinda works

ish

[final pulsar]

so a hand full lynchpins cause it not to roll over?

[full cloak]

eh, needs more testing but I basically built a scaffolding for them

it'll go down to a nuke or a few 500kgs but good enough for me, it's just meant to give SBGA some artillery overwatch

[final pulsar]

depends on how tough the platforms are

[full cloak]

they're just pillboxes it won't take much to knock them over

it's not like artillery trains are modern equipment expected to last

even the bridge is destructible

https://youtu.be/qQs3XY-8v8I?si=LQ6ILQH2hUnASxxK&t=249

kind of what I'm trying to go for

[violet garnet]

how do i make the "Capture Airbase" mission appear after "Capture Airstrip" has been completed? Capture Airbase (South_Location is the specific name of the mission) doesn't appear in the outcomes tab

[violet garnet]

thanks a lot

[full cloak]

has anyone had any success with reusing SpawnUnit outcomes

[full cloak]

or is it just that if some of the units in the outcome are still alive the game doesn't bother to check the rest

[patent fern]

your did it

[dense pebble]

Where is the smooth corner

[full cloak]

trying to keep the entity count down for framerate

[dense pebble]

Weak.

Use more entities

Honestly platforms don't cause much lag

It's AI you wanna keep an eye on

[topaz locust]

the most costly thing is still a plane

[violet garnet]

I don't really remember, is there a way to make an airbase (for example Desert Airbase from Escalation), which doesn't have big hangars to spawn Darkreaches, actually have those big hangars? Because just placing the building down doesn't do anything..

[patent fern]

no

[violet garnet]

Sadge

[violet garnet]

so i also can't make city airbase conquerable, for example

[final pulsar]

You can already?

[violet garnet]

mashallah

[final pulsar]

Level it, send ground units, capture it, buildings come back on the capture

[violet garnet]

ah based, thanks a lot

[tacit prawn]

This maybe a bit nerdy but is there a list of which ground vehicles belong to which faction? Looking at the thumbnails of some of the missions, it looks like all the AFV 8 variants are part of the BDF and all the Linebreaker variants are part of PALA.

Is the Autosentry SPAAG a PALA vehicle since it has a digital camo scheme kinda similar to the Linebreakers and the Anvil FGA is the BDF equivalent? Initially I thought that every faction had access to everything since the aircraft types are shared between the two factions.

Trying to come up with the lore for my mission.

[patent fern]

do you mean literally or appearance wise

if you mean literally then yes every faction has access to everything

[violet garnet]

i think he meant appearence-wise

well in my case i use the desert-camo ones for PALA and the green-colored ones for BDF because they complement the planes' liveries (green for bdf and desert for pala)

[patent fern]

i should but i use linebreaker sams on both sides just because they have more shots than afv8s

[violet garnet]

fair

[patent fern]

if you were to stick to proper appearances only you couldnt put any boltstrikes on bdf side because they all have pala markings, anyways

[tacit prawn]

I give the BDF bases Stratolance launchers to compensate.

[final pulsar]

they kinda suck at long range and really close up

[violet garnet]

so i have re-created the objectives from scratch but for some reason no plane is spawning on the enemy side, apart form the ones at the beginning

is there something i forgot? (map is ecalation pala coop but edited)

(sending screenshots now)

[full cloak]

Objective -> Outcomes -> SpawnUnit

[jade dawn]

hey whats the capture point for the naval airbase?
i know capture objectives are waypoints but i mean the actual point units have to reach to capture an airbase

[full cloak]

its a large area not a point

whichever side has more ground units, chicanes, or corvettes inside the area will have ownership

I think for Naval specifically its a relatively large area around the island to allow for corvettes to capture the island

[violet garnet]

Wait why would I want to put SpawnUnit everywhere? Doesn't that do like a 1-time immediate spawn?

[full cloak]

oh I misread I think

well I'm not sure what you're trying to go for

if you want natural spawns for the enemy you gotta have factories making planes and airfields

if you mean objective-based spawns then you gotta use SpawnUnit

[patent fern]

^

[violet garnet]

yeah i have the map filled with factories

except no one spawns. I think it has to do with those "push" missions the Base Game Escalation has

[full cloak]

the push missions are just trails of breadcrumbs for ground units to follow

they should have nothing to do with spawns

[warm quiver]

• are the factories set to produce specific units?
• are there accessible vehicle depots?
• is there a "destroy targets" objective (or any, for that matter) for the units to path towards?

Oh extra one

• is the objective set to be triggered by "mission start"?

Objectives need to be triggered to become active, only then will AI act upon it

[topaz locust]

You appear to have somehow gotten rid of Mission Start, which serves as an entry point for the objectives system

adding a new "Mission Start" assigned to no faction with an outcome that starts your first objective(s) should be enough to fix it

[violet garnet]

thanks so much, wish i had realized this before having gone mad and re-created the entire map from scratch. Oh well haha

[violet garnet]

ywah it was this one that was missing... F

[last sable]

how can i get those planes to not eject ?

they are neutral has i do not want them to move

[last sable]

@patent fern you have experience with that ?

[patent fern]

not really, i don't believe you can make a neutral plane remain stationary, and truthfully i dont have an understanding of how neutral planes even behave

@full cloak would you have any idea?

[full cloak]

I've only ever managed to get helicopters to stay in place and that's by pinning their rotors to a ceiling lol

[full cloak]

most likely since they're in an airbase they're trying to eject as they consider themselves landed

plus they have no reason to go in the air since they have no mission objectives

[last sable]

i see maybe thx then i wont have those

[last sable]

yeah that s why i thought they would just stay there

[full cloak]

unfortunately if there's no enemies and no objectives planes will rtb, land, and eject to despawn themselves

[patent fern]

^

[full cloak]

so static aircraft aren't a thing

[last sable]

sad

[patent fern]

i figured these rules applied to neutrals but i honestly haven't seen enough usage of neutral planes to understand wtf they do in a live combat scenario

[full cloak]

though it would be cool to have a static toggle for aircraft like ships and ground vics

[patent fern]

i've seen a neutral plane one time, in one of brassy's missions, used merely as a setpiece

only reason i thought he'd know something about it

[last sable]

it would look cool yes

[full cloak]

said setpiece was for dropping off stunt actors at a movie shoot at which point a neutral Cricket yeets itself off a ramp and crashes

okay if there's one map I actually do need to remake for the new system its Desert Compass

[patent fern]

i can confirm

the driving time attack mission was fun

didn't get enough attention for there to be competition over who could get the better time or not

shame, would have been fun

[full cloak]

technically you could cheese it by flying under radar the whole time

[patent fern]

honestly come to think of it

[full cloak]

I wonder if I should add some hostile Medusas in the sky to drop the radar floor

[patent fern]

with gear wheels having less grip now, and wheelbrake effectiveness nerfed

that mission would be a bit harder now

lol

[full cloak]

oh shit you're right damn

[patent fern]

require video proof for your time to count

[full cloak]

I mean if you flew under 30m the entire way you kinda deserve the time

because the checkpoints are still 5m across

[patent fern]

shh no cheesing

🧀

[full cloak]

I do have some experience with forcing things to stay still

but it was by pinning Chicanes to the bottom of Gambit Gale's flying battleship

[patent fern]

i forgot you hogtied chicanes to hold them in place

[full cloak]

so that it would have belly guns

if it weren't for the fact that ships capsize I could do the same with shards now

the other way to make chicanes stay still is to snap their tail rotor

but then they don't make very effective gunners

[last sable]

wich mission is it ?

[patent fern]

i need to make a mission that's like 50 darkreaches slamming into the ground in an area of shards and just seeing how much carnage ensues

[full cloak]

Operation Gambit Gale, which is unfortunately deprecated now

[patent fern]

just for the instagram reel

[patent fern]

OH BTW

i redownloaded your missions and did them a couple weeks ago with a friend who missed the playtest days

they were still pretty fun

[full cloak]

oh do they actually work still

[patent fern]

blockade breakers is obviously too OP now, but the others?

[full cloak]

I was expecting them to all be broken lol

wait really blockade breakers???

[patent fern]

invasion of boscali, dam raid, gambit gale, bridge defense EX? all good

because lynchpins lmfao

[patent fern]

dont forget there's been like seven RSAM and SPAAG buffs since the days of blockade breakers

[full cloak]

ah

[patent fern]

i didnt even bother trying it, i KNOW that shit isn't doable now

lol

but the others i could find from you are still fun to do

[full cloak]

I mean I presume Kia could still just one-tap the cursed IJN battleship with mach 7 bombs

Dam raid I actually pushed out with minimal testing lol

don't even think I properly did a playthrough of it aside from a few test runs of flying into the tunnels

Currently I'm working on a mission inspired by AC4's Whiskey Corridor

but I'm stuck on a few things, namely looping enemy spawns and setting up a 2/3 operation system (i.e. complete 2 out of 3 objectives to advance to the next phase)

I thought I had a good blueprint for the latter but when I tested it on a separate map it didn't work as it should

and it seems like SpawnUnit outcomes don't work as I hoped they would

[patent fern]

dam raid is just, group obliteration catharsis

it works without much testing because its so simple

you just peek the valley and throw a bajillion weapons

oh yeah speaking of that

the one big issue with your missions is they have no escalation threshold

well some might not see that as an issue but for missions where you intended nukes to not be available right off the bat, i mean

[full cloak]

ah yeah

need to set that

might also add some more goodies in when I eventually get around to it

[last sable]

could i get a little more help from you if you have time

[full cloak]

sure

[last sable]

i m trying to solve this, i know its a road checkpoint issue but i cant see the detailed view since .27

nor can i create a new road

kind of worked around it it s fine

[full cloak]

yeah it's best to put depots further away from the roads sometimes

I think the vehicles were trying to path to the closest node which is directly into the wall

[dense pebble]

ask squeegy

hes both a dev, and one of the top map makers

[last sable]

Kk

[topaz locust]

that is the case yes

if you want the depot butted right up against the road, make sure the node closest to where the vehicles spawn from lines up with the driveway

this might be hard to see on straight roads since the non-endpoint nodes are no longer visible

shakes fist at mitch

you'll have to do that at least until the vehicles know not to try to use roads to exit depots

[last sable]

I figured thx but can I still see the sub nodes like before?

[topaz locust]

^

[last sable]

Yeah I was talking about the straight ones but I guess I can't anymore

[full cloak]

okay after a bit of testing

my Ace Combat 6-style Operations system is working*

*currently only supporting up to 3 simultaneous operations of which players need to complete 2 in order to progress

how it works: there are 3 PALA IFVs and 3 BDF HLT trucks on this platform, whenever one of the three operations are completed one HLT truck and one IFV is spawned on different platforms. Finishing any two of the 3 operations is guaranteed to spawn 2 vehicles of opposing sides on the same platform, resulting in the destruction of the truck; all three of the trucks are set to start the next objective when destroyed

[warm quiver]

Oh god, people are starting to build computers in NO

[full cloak]

yeee

I mean I'm sure someone with more computer engineering skills than me can make it work for numbers bigger than 3

[patent fern]

if anyone was going to do this it was you

[full cloak]

yes

[patent fern]

the chosen one

[full cloak]

I figured out a way to adapt two of these into a 3/4 gate, but

in hindsight it's straight up easier to just make a hidden "CompleteObjectives" objective for each unique permutation of the objectives you want done

[molten orbit]

I saw a custom map on the multiplayer once, and it had a massive wall on the Boscali side with whole plethora of AA systems on it. Is this one of the posted ones?

[full cloak]

Is it Mountain Airbase vs Desert Airbase

[full cloak]

if yes then it's probably one of the armored trains in Foxtrot Pass which is a WIP mission that I haven't released yet

[molten orbit]

If only I'd know, I saw it but once

[molten orbit]

It's north from Boscali Airport

So between BDF mountain base and Boscali airbase

[warm quiver]

I need motivation to make a """counter insurgency""" style mission but I got nothing aside from the basic idea

PvE mostly just for fun and a chill time

[last sable]

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1133739473566453901 that?

[warm quiver]

nah

more than that

What I got written down so far is a independent battalion or whatever has decided it doesn't like what its faction says and is gonna do its own thing, much to the horror of both BDF and PALA

basically just go bomb the crap outta those bozos who aren't receiving support from their faction anymore

[crimson canyon]

So I'm meddling with the editor - just to be clear, there's no way right now to assign waypoints to singular units and lets say, make an AI medusa float around with a radome and just provide assistance from a distance?

[hardy linden]

its not possible for aircraft

also medusa AI is garbage and I'd recommend avoiding it

[red grail]

There is no way to assign waypoints for aircraft.
The 'Reach waypoints' in the editor can be completed by the player only and are ignored by the AI, as far as I know.
Medusa AI likes to pick random loadouts and fly towards the enemy. Sometimes, they fly high enough to provide radar and laser coverage, collecting hundreds of points by shooting down the SAMs they attract like a magnet.
Not much use beside that at this stage.

[full cloak]

at one point I found some moderate success by putting a radar station in low earth orbit (~25km up) and they would do loops trying to get to it

but they tend to get into unrecoverable spins

[dreamy peak]

do they jam it at all?

[quick elm]

Hehehe... from personal experience they do go after waypoints but cant complete them. Which is frustrating when tanks go into the sea to try to reach those waypoints. Or they hit one waypoint and decide to sit there

[red grail]

Ground units pick the closest active objective as their next waypoint, which means if you have a "Fly there" objective for the player several miles out in the ocean, they will be attracted there and drown miserably.
I'm lobbying @topaz locust and @obtuse wadi to improve AI and the editor, but I'm sure they're busy with other tasks (like making a new plane and an economy system for the game).

[red grail]

If I did see correctly, I think AI Medusa will try to jam radar buildings and HLT radar trucks, but they will lase anything in their range.

[quick elm]

Yeah. I find an easy fix is just to eventually time out anything that can make the AI go funky. But interesting enough aircraft chase these waypoints too

Source, i got ambushed by a revoker in the corner of the map on my side of the map, where ai never bothers to go normally.

Also, medusa is way too confident with the laser lol

[full cloak]

I know there's a way to get AI to stop responding if they go outside the map boundaties, but I haven't tested it enough to properly abuse it

[hardy linden]

aircraft follow reachwaypoint/unit and destroy unit objectives when there are no enemies around

[rocky gorge]

anyone know how to fix this?

[hardy linden]

move objectives from there

place them where you want your ground units to go

[dreamy peak]

if found in multiplayer an auger/1.5kt could do well

[jade dawn]

dont put move objectives on the runway

the road above is where you want them to be

[topaz locust]

if they're accumulating, it means the objective is still active and hasn't been completed or stopped

if it's a reach waypoints, these can only be completed by players

[hollow path]

Question . . . what does "Priority" under "Player Controlled" mean?

[topaz locust]

subsequent players take control of the aircraft in order of priority

so you can have a multiplayer single life type of setup

[hollow path]

Aha.

[hollow path]

Hmmm. The AI seems a little dumb to do what I'm trying to get it to do for this one mission.

[kindred heron]

is there an idiots guide to mission creation? there is so much that i cant work out how to do

[quick elm]

https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1136004790573346847
#1131013817011294249 message
Might be a bit outdated since the games been updated since then.
Beyond that, I recommend jumping in and getting help on specific things as you go.

[full cloak]

the FAQ one is super super outdated

that one dates back to playtest era mission editor

might as well be a year out of date

[last sable]

Is club south boscali still in service? In .27

[full cloak]

should be, I don't see any reason why not

there's no objectives or anything that would break lol

it's just a disco box and a compass that you can drive around the stage

[last sable]

Oh I see

[quick elm]

Wait wut. is this an april fools thing or did i somehow just manage to not see it for so many hours?

[full cloak]

oh never mind

I guess one of the Chicane updates must have changed the tail rotor physics

[full cloak]

#1156349886392963112 message

hm, this might be troublesome to fix

the AI will still break their tail rotors but they just flop to the ground instead of staying afloat

[quick elm]

Anyone know if the current map will still be available once the new one comes out?
Im planning to port at least some of my missions once it comes out but its gonna take me an eternity and some change lol.

[topaz locust]

According to mitch this is but one territory in a larger war, so I don't imagine the old map is going anywhere

[quick elm]

Sounds nice. Thanks

[patent fern]

i didn't imagine it would

[soft heart]

i would think expanding the current map would be great, not as in more terrain but rather more use of the water inside and around the map. especially once carriers come round, the actual map GUI also should be expanded.

actually i have a hunch that the GUI is just clamped and can be adjusted

[full cloak]

how tf do choppers work in the editor

Feels like anything except spawning them on the ground at 0 speed kills them instantly

[patent fern]

huh

odd

[full cloak]

also if anybody's figured out a reliable way to get them into permanent autorotation right where they spawn lemme know

trying to fix Club SBGA

[patent fern]

didnt you use to have that one down

specifically for that mission

[full cloak]

Club SBGA does it by spawning their tail rotor inside an object while having them fly forwards slightly which, before, would cleanly snap off the tail and put them into an eternal spin

now they just flop to the ground as soon as the rotor snaps off

but I also had issues getting Chicane spawns to work in both Giant Robot Attack!! and Foxtrot Pass

the Chicanes that were spawning on the air cruiser would plummet and crash immediately

[patent fern]

true

[full cloak]

only ones that were working were the ones on mission start and even then sometimes they just nosedive and crash

[patent fern]

chicanes just built different

[full cloak]

my assumption is that some update changed the chicane so that the starting velocity is only forwards and they still have to spin up their rotors and raise gear

which is no good because they're gonna just be dropping like a rock

[full cloak]

anyway my next project is going to be making turning the Medusa into a turret so that I can have EW Air Cruisers (EWACs)

[final pulsar]

because the spin forever was fixed

[full cloak]

yeah I read something like that

I know its not completely impossible though because I still see AI chicanes spinning

[final pulsar]

they have limit, then they give up and let the crash happen

they also get bombed by the AI if they are spining to long

[full cloak]

bleh

[warm quiver]

The AI have been learning from Kia

[final pulsar]

well.... yeah

they mitch teaches them NOCS tricks lol

[warm quiver]

Where's the repeaters we need to destroy to stop this

[terse orchid]

[hollow path]

pondering which section of the map would be best for a "Team Deathmatch" game mode she just thought of.

[jade dawn]

probably something with dense enough terrain for air cover

pvp in flat areas is kinda boring and quick

[hollow path]

Probably Boscali Island itself, then.

[full cloak]

imo North Boscali Airbase to City Airbase is what you're looking for

two full size airbases with a good deal of terrain variety

relatively small area means instant action, but it's not so close that you're immediately under threat on the runway

Flying under the bridge will break most locks and the area over the water is a natural hotspot for dogfights

there's a valley that funnels both sides into a thunderdome-esque arena as well, if players opt for the over land route

[hollow path]

Hmmm. Indeed.

It strikes me that a good way to do it would be to have a high-ish Nuclear threshold, and maybe limited options for ground attack besides that.

Encourages a Dogfight phase to build up the points needed to eliminate the other team's base.

[hardy linden]

gonna be recreating the furball from project wingman?

cool

[full cloak]

Team Deathmatch apparently

idk it kinda sounds like normal Escalation to me

but smaller scale ig

[hardy linden]

that what will end up being either a furball or a steamroll

[hardy linden]

domination v2

and hopefully without the R9s

gotta hate the R9

[full cloak]

hehe funny 40km radar spike

I had a thought once of remaking my tunnel race map but instead of a single tunnel throughout, they lead into a particle accelerator-esque arena

[hardy linden]

like the antimass spectromiter from half life 1?

would be funny to nuke it

[full cloak]

Weapons testing...

[topaz locust]

ha

good effect on target

[full cloak]

it's slightly more terrifying at full speed

[warm quiver]

"never been killed by one of these"

[soft heart]

shard sabot

[dense pebble]

Bro how tf you be getting hit by 3 shards at once

[hardy linden]

stratetic bomber powered shard gun I guess

[soft heart]

the unit ID's of all the darkreaches are "powder"

[warm quiver]

My favourite part of all this is that Brassy just reappeared one day after disappearing off the face of the earth

And immediately starts making this sh*t

What the hell, man

[full cloak]

'twas merely a training arc

well, and a bunch of RL work to be done

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1161558715938381876/1225334231773876264/image.png

this was the initial concept

but friction isn't modelled properly for boats on land

and then crawler and I realized that planes can impart momentum to ships

[full cloak]

#screenshots-and-videos message new weapons system test

[patent fern]

excuse me

[full cloak]

initial concept

didn't work but fortunately what we got instead was even better

[patent fern]

better for who exactly

[full cloak]

humanity

[patent fern]

i'll buy it when i see it

[patent fern]

the prophecy

[full cloak]

after a period of slumber razgriz returns with manmade horrors beyond your comprehension

or something like that

[patent fern]

mfw i'm shown horrors beyond my comprehension

(i can't comprehend them)

[full cloak]

specifically my own humanity because having to set up a rail and then drop shards from space so that they fall just right on the rail would have been very annoying

just having a darkreach with the heaviest possible load smash into them at mach 70 is much better

but yeah Shard Rain seems to work very well at suppressing the airspace for ~a minute or so

I might try implementing this when I get around to Total Annihilation v2.0

give each side a Shard Cannon aimed at Mountain/North Boscali, anyone on either side can blow up a marked neutral HLT tractor to fire a round, 15 min reload and a limit of 3 shard cannon shots

each time it happens five shards rain down on the enemy base and force defenders to hit the deck or die

but requires coordination for effective use

ofc the shard cannon can also be blown up by the opposing side which takes away the ability to shoot

[patent fern]

glad to see your absence truly sent you off the deep end

[full cloak]

are you gonna tell me that seeing hostile corvettes fall from the sky isn't the shock and awe tactic of all time

[patent fern]

you got me there

[warm quiver]

Brassy woke up from their slumber and chose hyperviolence

[full cloak]

the interesting part is that if I do this over water, the shards still leave a wake despite being in low earth orbit

I was a bit worried that they might not capsize when they hit the water and would therefore just become a roaming unit but

seems like shards at mach 2 have no problem bouncing and flipping over when they collide with the surface

a real 300iq play is to fire MMRs at the falling shards and get a hefty amount of kill credit when they roll over

other things to note: shards can work as catapults by putting a vehicle on their aft and spamming a darkreach down on their bow, using a rotated platform as the fulcrum

[warm quiver]

Wait since they're airborne they don't impart the A2A missile inaccuracy debuff do they

[full cloak]

they might

tbh idk

the pre-cursor to the current shard cannon was crawler and I trying to send a stratolance launcher to the moon using the catapult method

which worked but was kinda disappointing

[warm quiver]

I still find it hilarious that the tech I got ryu to find however many months ago is core to this

[full cloak]

which tech

[warm quiver]

Slap-a-shard-with-darkreach tech

[patent fern]

i did what now

oh

flipping a shard by ramming it

yes that was an incredible discovery

squeegy carried on the legacy on april fools

[hollow path]

Hmmmm.

trying to decide the best way to do this "Compass only Domination" map.

How much SPAAGs, Missile defence, and other stuff to include, etc.

[hardy linden]

dont add R9s because they are not fun to fight, unless you limit their FOV to up only

also they kinda screw up dogfighting

[hollow path]

Right now I have it set up where both bases have 3 forward IR SAM batteries of 2 vehicles, with the main base defended by 2 batteries consisting of 2 IR SAMs, 1 Boltstrike, and 1 Anvil. The main defences are deeper into the valley of each base, though, so the Boltstrikes are occluded from the main approach.

[hardy linden]

boltstrikes dont need to be occluded cause their max range it 15km

and Id recommend to give those SAM batteries SPAAGs so they cant be bombed easily

[hollow path]

Oooooh. Good to know.

[quick elm]

I'm gonna "'borrow'" this but with AFV claymores >;-3

[full cloak]

doesn't work well

tried it before shards were a thing

[quick elm]

oh, you mean the ramp or the darkreach ram? or both?
i was more gonna use it for dispensing HLT's across the map chaotically, and at this point Im too curious.

[full cloak]

both

physics for ground vehicles are fundamentally different, ramming doesn't work on them

and the response time is not sufficient for them to target enemies properly when tumbling

granted if you have them merely falling straight down and level maybe they have time to launch a missile or two BUT they will phase through the ground on impact if their speed is too high

I believe the reason why the Shard has its currently unique physics is to facilitate use of its helipad on the back for chicane and particularly daredevil revoker players

but it makes it rammable

[hollow path]

I believe the Shard also has other quirks. Like not dieing if it's beached unless it's REALLY messed up.

[full cloak]

Shard "dies" by capsizing and sinking

so if it can't flip over it has to die by structural damage

but iirc there's a simulated flooding thing where as the Shard takes damage it'll list to one side and then that makes it likely to capsize while turning or taking additional impacts

[full cloak]

has anybody experimented with the ReachUnits objective? I presume it works the same as ReachWaypoints but the waypoint can move?

[topaz locust]

Yes - just note that currently as every objective counts as a navigation target, and units will seek the closest navigation target, they can end up trying to reach themslves if on the same team with no explicit waypoints set

Point Blank uses reach unit objectives for landing on the ships

the ships used to go in circles in testing

[full cloak]

I assume it also works like ReachWaypoint wherein it doesn't actually trigger the objective until the distance from the center starts increasing

[hardy linden]

epic

[full cloak]

maybe I should add a muzzle brake

[full cloak]

working name for now is "Moonbreaker" since, well, there is no moon at night implying that there was one before

[terse orchid]

I'd love to nuke that

[soft heart]

My super laser pi-

Literally Stonehenge

[rocky gorge]

see #1131013817011294249 message lol

[full cloak]

crawler was the one who was with me in voice chat for that clip lol

[full cloak]

I wonder, if I spawn opposing shards at the same altitude would they be able to shoot at each other while they fall from low earth orbit

[open mulch]

Haha maybe…

[hollow path]

This is why Brassy is head of BDF R&D

[full cloak]

hm

the projectile turns out to be a bit bigger than the barrel

[last sable]

It's quite beautiful like so

[warm quiver]

it's also not like anyone will pay attention to that

wait it's just like a riflegrenade

[last sable]

IS THAT REALLY WHAT I YHINK IT IS !?!

[hardy linden]

wdym

the priority stuff?

its been there since .27

[last sable]

wow didn't see it how could pass over that

can someone here help me in vc i seem to have forgot how to make my missions work

[hollow path]

I've never been able to get Priority to work.

[last sable]

forgot to make it so when accomplished my objective would trigger the next one

i also forgot in my tree last missions

bruh

[hardy linden]

you just set 1 for player one, 2 for player one, etc

if that doesnt work, then place aircraft in the order that you want them to spawn and give them the same priority

[hollow path]

Has not worked. Priority resets when I click away. And when I try to spawn a buddy in with that on a custom map, it either drops them in a random plane or not at all.

[hardy linden]

weird

it should work

[full cloak]

oh yeah the 20-man lobby update introduced some weird bugs with the mission editor

[candid abyss]

what are the conditions for getting AI aircraft to spawn in games?

the starting supply is full, airbases are on teams and i have factories producing aircraft

but they don't seem to spawn

[topaz locust]

That should be everything. I don't think a lack of an objective should affect whether they can spawn, but when they do spawn its at a location closest to an objective.

[rocky gorge]

any way to prevent this?

(id rather get rid of the 1 compass than the rest of the planes

[terse orchid]

Yeah by turning down the spawn rates

[full cloak]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NhVcLEO_0BM

gotta figure out how to do something like this with my cannon

maybe I should have a shard get fired at lower velocity out the breach-end of the cannon and flip over, as if it were a casing

also, probably going to either delete the darkreach spawn or add a much larger delay to it because by the time they spawn there's already too many aircraft in the air and the cruise missiles cause even more lag

[hardy linden]

this can happen at very low spawnrates too

it happens very often

mitch pls fix

[topaz locust]

since the brakes were changed, the incoming planes overshoot the other ramp and try to reach the service point at that end instead. At the moment this is on us to make ATC better

[hardy linden]

first thing you could do is have AI eject if they are touching the same object for like 10s while moving very slowly or not at all

[full cloak]

shouldn't they be automatically ejecting anyway if they can't reach the end of the taxiway

[hardy linden]

they should but the ground AI is flawed and confusing so I guess noone will know why they dont

[last sable]

is there a way to make an objective to destroy map objects as i don't see a unique name for them ?

[full cloak]

basically no

you can put a vehicle very close or right on top of them to simulate the same effect

in some cases you can use noclip put it inside

[last sable]

thx, knew you be of great help

[north moon]

any tutorial vids or threads for mission editor?

[full cloak]

I wrote an FAQ way back for the playtest era but a lot of things have changed since then

I can answer any questions you have

[north moon]

It’s unfortunate no one has put together a video yet. I’m just having trouble getting it to work -

Can you build additional airfields using the platforms ?

[full cloak]

you can build resupply bases but not spawn points for aircraft

people can land, taxi around, and resupply using munitions trucks and fuel tankers on platforms, but the player-placed hangars, shelters, and revetments won't be able to spawn players nor AI units

[rocky gorge]

speaking of spawn points, ive been thinking:

make a timer objective that spawns an aircraft, then make starting that objective an outcome, creating an inf loop

thoughts?

[last sable]

Infinite loop idk but iirc it's possible with wait seconds objective

[full cloak]

doesn't work anymore

at one point it did in fact work but it was changed in an update and I've been bugging the devs to change it back lol

[rocky gorge]

[molten orbit]

Why do I hear singing in Latin?

[full cloak]

had a thought

planes transfer momentum to ships and ships transfer momentum to vehicles

...previous testing seemed to indicate that planes crashing into vehicles directly have very little impact

[dense pebble]

Planes crashing into locked vehicles have no impact

But if you hit something in a convoy, it will go flying

[full cloak]

the testing was done on a moving vehicle... hm. maybe this is worth a retest then

[dense pebble]

Might be

I've sent MBT,s across SBG with a revoker

Multiple tanks with a single plane

[full cloak]

noted. Might be worth re-evaluating the effectiveness of flying ground vehicles

[last sable]

we need "follow unit" objective to go with the new carrier

like the checkpoint one but for ai

you would have a slider for forward/backward offset and one for left/right offset

[soft heart]

Yeah that could be quite useful

[full cloak]

isn't this just ReachUnit

iirc the AI will attempt to path towards ReachUnit objs as well

[soft heart]

there may be a slight difference, pretty sure ReachUnit will just attempt to hit the carrier depending on the range

not sure about what units will try to reach the carrier as well

[quick elm]

Any tips on how to make maps less resource intensive (for escalation style missions)? I tried limiting the amount of aircraft that spawn in but i do like my share of air to air, at the same time i know a lot of people run this game on steam decks and cheaper hardware and want to keep my missions accessible.

[full cloak]

reduce missile spam as much as possible

do more with less, make AI on AI furballs last longer by spawning them in with only guns

do not spawn more than one cruise missile Darkreach at a time

do not spawn aircraft on runways, spawn them slightly above the ground at cruising speed, angled with their noses slightly upwards

avoid spawning more than half a dozen aircraft at a time if possible, use timer objectives to spread them out over multiple segments

you can also use timer objectives to stagger factories with the same production time, so that the AI don't all come out of hangars at the same time

traffic jams on the ground cause massive lag, large amounts of missiles or rockets can cause moderate lag; minimize both as much as possible

make sure both sides are relatively evenly matched in air power throughout the whole mission, or else AI planes will build up drastically on one side which will slowly become resource intensive

oh, and make sure ground pathing from vehicle depots is clear such that ground units don't get stuck and build up in one location

[quick elm]

I do need to find a way to solve traffic jams on my missions. But i think if i limit the airframes spawned in at a time thatll solve itself. I might try having objectives spawn in as each one is completed (namely factories)

[full cloak]

basically the most resource intensive moments from my experience come when the AI pathing can't compute a clear path to reach their objectives and thus end up constantly recalculating, resulting in lag

this can either be airfield traffic jams (the worst offender), improperly configured roads leading to AI units going offroad and getting stuck (gets very bad if not dealt with), and large numbers of cruise missiles calculating terrain-following waypoints to reach their destination (temporary until they get intercepted or hit their targets)

[quick elm]

Ill have to take a look at my vehicle depots too because they do sometimes get gummed up too

[full cloak]

move the vehicle depots a bit further away from the roads

about like half a depot length from the roadway should be good

[quick elm]

Okay. Well, thanks for the tips.

[full cloak]

best of luck with your mission

[indigo valley]

One thing I still don't understand is the sortie settings. The AI doesn't seem to follow them OR I'm not understanding how they work.

[full cloak]

ah yeah uh

don't use those, basically

they suck, simply put

might even be disabled now

[indigo valley]

I think so. I thought I could reduce the max AI in the air but seems to have no idea

Effect**

[full cloak]

the idea is to prevent AI from spawning alone, but the problem is that when more than one AI is trying to take off at a time they either crash or cause massive amounts of lag trying to path around each other

best to just leave it at default which has the planes spawn as soon as they come out the factory

[indigo valley]

Yeah, I try to start spawned aircraft in the air for that reason

Sounds good

[full cloak]

its a legacy setting from back during the playtest... honestly should probably just be disabled for the time being

[indigo valley]

I've setup my factories to stagger them to hopefully reduce performance issues

I remember back then, I set it to max and so many AI spawned that I had like 3 fps

[full cloak]

yeah I presume they tried to spawn 8 at once and then proceeded to cause an orgy on the taxiway

made worse by the fact that Mitch recently removed front wheel brakes so now they crash into each other upon overshooting their exit

[indigo valley]

Yeah, it took me quite awhile to get my escalation to a good point, it's not perfect, but it's been a long process.

There are a lot of missiles though

[indigo valley]

Actually... Considering it took a team of 10+ randoms 4 hours to beat it, I think it needs changes... That was a slog.

[final pulsar]

using randoms is a better test bed vs coordinated team to test some things.

[indigo valley]

Oh, I agree. It was still a bit of a slog though

Need to fix mid game

Early and late are okay

I think

[terse orchid]

@indigo valley i almost feel like there's no mid game though it's like you try to scrounge up enough for a Compass then try to takedown as much of the radar sources as possible to lessen the work for Medusa operators then it's just a homerun fest til nukes and then well..... gameover....

[patent fern]

there pre-nuke and post-nuke and not much in between

and post nuke usually comes fast

[indigo valley]

No, sorry, I'm actually referring to my own custom, objective based escalation specifically.

Which seems to have a weird mid game

[terse orchid]

Is it due to people racking score up to wait for nukes?

[indigo valley]

No, nukes come early, but even then it's a slog to takeout all of the bases and other constructs

Mostly due to my trying to make a balanced, yet difficult, air defence

This is a co-op escalation btw

Which changes things of course

But I don't know if people love a co-op escalation that takes 3-4 hours

[final pulsar]

the issue is, smoother brain randoms will only take nukes once they are active, so if there are sams that are not thined out sufficiently, game can turn into slog due to this

once econ is live, people will end up going broke with smash the head into wall tactics vs continued AD thinning and then bailing from the match because they get stuck in cricket

more coordinated teams take out sams and factories / depots to stop the ground game.

[indigo valley]

Yeah, you're absolutely right

[dreamy peak]

singleplayer does take 3 without nukes

and i loved it

[indigo valley]

I suppose

I wonder how long it would take SP...

Or if it's even possible 👀

[dreamy peak]

where is the mission file

[indigo valley]

I'm sure it is

[dreamy peak]

i will try

[indigo valley]

Ugh, one sec

[final pulsar]

speed running a map

[indigo valley]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3185702188

That being said, it's a hybrid of escalation and objectives

So it's kind of weird

And it has scripted events

Basically the premise is:

Resist ground invasion - push back and destroy Boscali city airbase - survive counter attack - and then the end game starts

[full cloak]

bit scuffed but... 5" coastal battery?

[hardy linden]

looks nice but I feel like the tanks are gonna clip out of it when the mission starts

[full cloak]

heh

you'd think so, right

[hardy linden]

yeah I have some experience with ground units in buildings

[full cloak]

well, uh. They don't. thanks to the revetment

its a bit finnicky but they'll snap onto the wall if you make sure they're in just the right spot

[full cloak]

to elaborate more, yes vehicles will snap to surfaces below them when stationary, which may cause them to phase in or out of buildings instead of where you want them to be. My design takes this into account and provides a surface under the MBTs tracks for them to snap to while the pillbox protects everything under the turret ring

I will also note that for some reason the walls of the revetment aren't solid on top so for this one I had to put the tanks slightly overhanging the side of the revetment to get them to snap properly

you can blow up the pillboxes to crack the concrete armor and expose the MBT inside

[warm quiver]

corvids using tools to open tree nuts:

[full cloak]

anyway, the final product can blow up corvettes foolish enough to wander within 5km and gives the tanks slightly more protection than they would otherwise, though corvettes still outrange them with the 57mm gun

overall, a good priority bombing target for pilots. highly recommend.

the MBT can also be replaced with a IFV to grant the bunker a ATGM missile launcher

or an aerosentry for some semblance of air defense

[warm quiver]

When we get actual static defences that will be so cool

[full cloak]

next thing to test on the menu

do nukes blow things up under the ground mesh

[dreamy peak]

i would think they dont

if the ground mesh works like the city buildings

[full cloak]

I'm pretty sure I've seen units survive a nuclear blast by being on the other side of a hill

but some distance is involved

[patent fern]

i thought i recalled reading that terrain didn't protect you from a nuke's guaranteed kill radius

[full cloak]

hmm

[patent fern]

i would imagine it does blow up things underground going off of that

but it would just need tested

[indigo valley]

@full cloak I've been meaning to ask, Foxtrot pass is a neat mission but what are these for? Cruise missile nets?

[patent fern]

s h e ld

[full cloak]

they're just cool-looking shields

[patent fern]

[dreamy peak]

spawn shields against IR missiles

[full cloak]

basically yeah

[dreamy peak]

add more

[indigo valley]

Interesting

[full cloak]

there's a cricket that spawns close enough to harass the base before you take off

[indigo valley]

I've only ever joined in progress, so it was a mystery

[full cloak]

also provides cover for the vehicle depot and boltstrikes from random AI lobbing AGM-68s

[patent fern]

me when friendly compass nukes highway strip after it gets captured because the anvils left one enemy vehicle alive there for some reason

[full cloak]

there was a point in time where instead of the Moonbreaker there were three Darkreaches that would spawn with a full cruise missile loadout

[patent fern]

(the shield didnt work)

[full cloak]

but the 40-something cruise missiles would cause an insane amount of lag

[indigo valley]

I learned that the hard way too lol

Which is too bad

I do hope that we eventually get the ability to spawn ordinance

It would make scripted events much easier to make

[full cloak]

basically every enemy base that's intended to be seen in Foxtrot Pass has a large amount of shielding around it

[dreamy peak]

can you script targets for AI?

[full cloak]

so I felt that the player side should have one too

[full cloak]

you can set it as the target of a destroy objective but

results may vary

[dreamy peak]

ah that sucks

[indigo valley]

Yeah, exactly. If you want them to attack something for sure you need to make it the closest object they spawn to

at least in my experience

That's why some of my missions have things spawn in weird places

[indigo valley]

Ground units will always make their way to the closest objective, but aircraft seem to not care quite as much

[full cloak]

anyway I sorta figured out why the enemy AI in F_Pass are flying into the ocean, most likely they're trying to avoid radar pings from the boltstrikes, and later on stratolances

[patent fern]

correct

[indigo valley]

I have seen that too though, like a revoker flew 150km north of the BDF base, so it was well behind it's own lines. And PALA really doesn't have radar coverage in TE

[patent fern]

the same thing happens on my mission

AI just leave because they try to go around

and they just keep going and going

[full cloak]

another reason why we need bigger buffer zone between the coast and the map border

[indigo valley]

agreed

I actually stopped producing Crickets and Compasses, because Revokers are just so much more brave

Seems to happen less anyways

Not sure if that's a thing, or just anecdotal

[full cloak]

revokers kinda do it too

[full cloak]

see the nice thing about the Spirit of Motherwill is

we already have the head-piece in game

it looks like the goddamn refinery structure

[patent fern]

i still have to get clarified where #feedback-and-suggestions message this is coming from

cause it doesn't go down quickly

[full cloak]

eh

[patent fern]

maybe if you have 16 players

[full cloak]

whenever I run it someone eventually just flies in with a nuke and deletes it in one pass

I've done it myself even

[patent fern]

maybe if the AA is all killed beforehand, before then its very nuke resistant

[full cloak]

there's a blind spot or two

[patent fern]

due to the massively open air around it and all the RSAMs

i think the ship does just fine

[full cloak]

hm

well, I'll consider it as I make Bunker Shot

I'm kinda stuck on what to make for the central objective

right side is an oil/enrichment facility again, left side is the air cruiser base

center should be the main push, getting to the road going to City Airbase