Jason

[tropic eagle]

.. maintenance at 6 PM for me.

[tulip plaza]

damn

[minor radish]

ask us later mayhaps

[halcyon badger]

Sucks no patch notes

[queen juniper]

Nah they fr need to give us the notes tonight if they going into maintenance in the morning

No way they are still tinkering and things aren’t finalized to publish

[flint tide]

Is there any information on hitboxes and hurtboxes i can view somewhere

Like jasons hitboxes

[tulip plaza]

I really hope this next patch revitalizes the game a little
at least get us back to like, 10,000 players a day
not only does it hurt to see the steam numbers be at best 6,000, it also means more chances to get paired with sweats pfft

[unique pewter]

Is it true it has a larger population on consoles tho? I remember hearing someone say steam was the minority percentage of usage out of the two but I don’t know if that’s accurate

[tulip plaza]

hard to say, I just know I play on steam and they have numbers I can look at so thats usually what I go on

[flint tide]

I doubt it will

No ranked mode

I’m not optimistic about the games future to be honest

But i’m a somewhat pessimistic person anyway

If we’re lucky it’ll fix everything and people will come back who knows

[tulip plaza]

I'm sure we'll at least get a small boost from a new character drop

[flint tide]

I think the way the game launched kind of lost some goodwill and people have very reasonably not been wanting to give it a second chance after that

Probably

I do hope the game stabilisies but

No ranked?

[scenic lagoon]

I mean

[flint tide]

Come on now

[scenic lagoon]

this was the second chance

[scenic lagoon]

If ranked dropped and the servers were the way they were

People would've been pissed regardless

[tulip plaza]

or with the balance

[flint tide]

Thats not what i mean

[halcyon badger]

I’m surprised how hyped agent smith is lol never knew people loved him this much

[flint tide]

I mean at this point

I do kind of understand where they’re coming from in regards to wanting the game balanced beforehand

[scenic lagoon]

They aint doing it mid season

[flint tide]

But it feels a little

Eh

[unique pewter]

I think it’s just anything from the matrix… it kinda defined a lot of peoples adolescence so oldheads are gonna be super jazzed about it

[flint tide]

Wish we got neo

I’d be more interested in neo

[scenic lagoon]

I think it was kinda just because more villains

[unique pewter]

I mean personally I’d be more interested in trinity but we’ll never get her

[tulip plaza]

I'm sure neo will come
they just wanted a cool bad guy first
I mean they have the rights to use matrix so neo is only a matter of time I'd say

[flint tide]

Need scorpion or sub zero

[scenic lagoon]

Banana Guard

[unique pewter]

Not because she’s niche just because I doubt they’ll do more than two matrix characters but ya never know

[tulip plaza]

I remember all those rumors surrounded mortal kombat in mvs
one of the co creators at the pfg office, and then the other co creator retweeting mvs stuff hyping the launch

maybe it'll happen

[flint tide]

https://youtu.be/I39LZhNV2eE?si=54GU6FdVQNUAfCSm

Bro what

Since when was this possible

I need to learn to do this asap bruh

Actually next patch might break these with the way it changes combo scaling

Damn i coulda been doing like 60% combos this whole time

[tulip plaza]

quick, lab out pfft

[flint tide]

Pretty sure the hitstun decay changes are gonna make those obsolete but my god

If it doesn’t i’m gonna learn how to do that loool

Thats nuts

[tulip plaza]

who knows, maybe the update will make these combos work even better lol

[flint tide]

@scenic lagoon @idle wolf

Look at this bro 😭

What is that 😭

[scenic lagoon]

Think it heavily depends on di

I've never seen a Jason at high level do any of that

Oh wait, there are none 💀

[minor radish]

Would love to see a high level jason

[scenic lagoon]

All of the things I see in the comments is just talking about how none of it is true

[flint tide]

im gonna test it and pray its true 🙏

even if it is a thing it sprobably gonna get removed

thanks to the combo changes

fun experiment though

[scenic lagoon]

Yes

[flint tide]

oh it was apparently patched out a while ago loool

apologies for wasting your time

would've been funny though

[idle wolf]

Wait look where

[idle wolf]

Oh bro I’ve seen those idk how true/viable those are I have yet to try them

[idle wolf]

Oh wow maybe that’s why they didn’t work LMAO

[west cloak]

I don’t think a lot of those work anymore with the universal changes to jab loops

[halcyon badger]

Crazy combos though

That dair was smacking lol

[flint tide]

yeah mb i though tthat was a legit thing

patch notes

dropping rn in discord

wow no arya nerfs

that matchup probably still sucks then

yo more harley nerfs lets go

bro what

why did they nerf the recovery on nair loool

[tulip plaza]

NOOOOOO THE SLEEPING BAAAAG

[flint tide]

ok so

neutral axe 2 frames faster

jab 1 1 frame faster

nair 2 frames faster i think

but the recovery nerf...

hmm

that down air change actually seems really good

having a hitbox on what is essentially his entire body seems like it'd make it way more consistent

[queen juniper]

The rage to moonwalk taunt and charged up smash tech goes so hard

[flint tide]

not a big fan of nair recovery nerf

that was like

one of the main things i liked about that move

the fact it had low recovery

[idle wolf]

Why did they do that to nair

[devout burrow]

dair down special is a real loop

but it is a pain in the ass to space

and comboing into dair is really hard

[flint tide]

3 frames reduced startup on nair does sound good so we’ll see if its worth it or not

[idle wolf]

Someone explain on whiff branch window

[flint tide]

Recovery frames

[idle wolf]

End lag

[flint tide]

Idk why they use “branch” instead of cancel

[idle wolf]

5 extra frames of end lag on Nair wtf

[flint tide]

But its the amount of time before you can do another action

Why did they buff taz

Wtf

[idle wolf]

At least they nerfed 30 damage neutral air

[devout burrow]

nair getting a recovery nerf is really funny

I mean like

these changes of 1-2 frames are going to make a giant different

I imagine

[flint tide]

Maybe?

Idk

The big one is the hitbox changes

Is there a way to view hitboxes?

[devout burrow]

no

[tulip plaza]

not officially but I remember someone found a way
just know some hitboxes just did NOT work
like, the jabs and up air, the hitboxes didn't cover the machete fully

[wide shale]

i'll compare hitboxes after the patch frame by frame probably

[halcyon badger]

I thought there was a way?

[wide shale]

yeah there's a way on pc

[halcyon badger]

I seen someone post them a week ago

[queen juniper]

Low key Jason brothers, I may need to dabble in some Jake after the patch

[halcyon badger]

Go for it he’s viable now

[queen juniper]

Fr tho some solid buffs

[flint tide]

Jason buffs look interesting need to see how he feels

Not sure what to think about that nair change

[halcyon badger]

A hell lot better

[wide shale]

nair change? wait are the notes out?

[flint tide]

I hope the hitbox changes are good

Yes look in patch notes

Nair got buffed and nerfed

5 extra recovery frames

[halcyon badger]

Bag still useless

[flint tide]

Bag still useless

[halcyon badger]

@wide shale yeah #patch-notes

Kinda hard to read on mobile

[queen juniper]

And the one gimmick bag had with Marvin is getting patched smh

[tulip plaza]

it was so funny too
they could have had the bubble pop like, super fast if the sleeping bag was in it, but noooooo

[flint tide]

Hmm

Batman divekick nerf looks nice

I wonder if jason can anti air it consistently now?

[scenic lagoon]

Bag useless

[flint tide]

Makes that matchup even better

[scenic lagoon]

I do have to say

Will Jason apply the incapacitated effect when he grabs someone?

Because it's not mentioned in the notes

[flint tide]

Doubt it and if it does its irrelevant

[scenic lagoon]

And for every other grab character it does

[scenic lagoon]

Really not

[flint tide]

Jasons grab isnt like

A grab in the same way as the others

[scenic lagoon]

Up special grounded is a grab

[flint tide]

Oh right

[scenic lagoon]

It defines some MU's

[flint tide]

Thought you just meant the air grab

[halcyon badger]

I love up special I’m addicted to up special

[tulip plaza]

I really hope up special grounded into air neutral special will still work cus it was always so fun to land

[scenic lagoon]

And nair is now faster but less safe

But god, accurate Jason jab is going to be insane

[halcyon badger]

finally no more clipping into people and missing

[flint tide]

Hmm

Yeah if jason’s up special applys incapacitate resistance that would be kinda bad

Probably not a big deal

Just a slightly minor annoyance

But again its not the same type of grab

As like jake’s bite

[tulip plaza]

when they talked about the resistance they did mention specifically ones you can mash out of
like jakes bite

[flint tide]

Yeah

[tulip plaza]

so this would apply to sleeping bag

[scenic lagoon]

Yea but the bots in higher difficulty rifts sure love dodging out of it 💀

[flint tide]

Yeah

[timber cedar]

bag nerf

[tulip plaza]

as if it needed more nerfs ;w;

[scenic lagoon]

Too good man

It bags all over the place

[tulip plaza]

but grabs like superman and jason don't have a mash meter

[scenic lagoon]

When you get bagged, you lose

[timber cedar]

alright now there’s literally no reason to use bag

like at all

[scenic lagoon]

Bots in rift do not care

[tulip plaza]

well thats different

[scenic lagoon]

They will just escape

[timber cedar]

their built different

[scenic lagoon]

And it even says escape

[timber cedar]

literally

it’s listed the experienced difficulty

[scenic lagoon]

I know

[flint tide]

I guess we can try it in training

[scenic lagoon]

But I still hate it

[flint tide]

The main matchup looping upspecial comes into play in is iron giant

[scenic lagoon]

True

[flint tide]

So its literally only relevant vs him

[scenic lagoon]

But he doesn't exist anymore

He's gone

Good riddance

[flint tide]

Is he

I didn’t look at his changes

[scenic lagoon]

I hope the nerfs will delete him

[flint tide]

Weird character

[scenic lagoon]

He doesn't have loops anymore so throw him in F tier

[timber cedar]

he’s basically back at beta state now

[flint tide]

Ive never really minded fighting iron giant

[timber cedar]

so like he’s a high c tier character

[flint tide]

He is ridiculously hard to kill but outside of that

Idk you can kinda abuse him a lot

[scenic lagoon]

Fight someone like Onlinewithbobo or Makmat

[timber cedar]

being hard to kill is the only thing going for him rn

[flint tide]

Nah i fought a pretty good one who kicked my ass

[scenic lagoon]

After patch yes

[flint tide]

He’s strong but like

I’d rather fight him than any of the other top tiers

[scenic lagoon]

Idk

Getting naired 4 times into up air kill

Is pretty dumb

But the other top tiers are equally as aggrovating

So glad they're getting nerfed

[timber cedar]

joker is still gonna be good

[scenic lagoon]

Duh

Just not dummy broken anymore

[flint tide]

Yeah but not broken

I gotta see these machete hitbox changes man

They better be insane

[scenic lagoon]

And wild card is gonna get nerfed even more

[timber cedar]

thank god chaining side specials is dead

it was so braindead

[scenic lagoon]

Thank god the tod is dead

Goodbye jab dair double dspecial up air airwalker jab up tilt

You will not be missed

[timber cedar]

airwalker is despicable

[scenic lagoon]

Truly

[timber cedar]

how did it avoid any nerfs this patch

[scenic lagoon]

Arya's gonna be a problem

[scenic lagoon]

Better question, how did Last stand avoid nerfs

[timber cedar]

Arya’s probably s-tier now

[gray gale]

Air walker is in a funny spot cuz like

[timber cedar]

even better question, why was the projectile shield perk the only perk that got nerfed

[gray gale]

The only characters that get juice out of it are ones who don't need it in the combo department

It's a rich get richer perk

[scenic lagoon]

Jason got it for the funny up b kill at 0

[flint tide]

Arya still nonsense

I expect that matchup is still gonna suck but a bit less

[gray gale]

Arya was always crazy

[scenic lagoon]

True

[gray gale]

But people just don't play her

[scenic lagoon]

But people complained cause up b up air wasn't 1000% consistent

[gray gale]

I would honestly make it so you can't fastfall with her side special when it's on-cooldown

[scenic lagoon]

They could get it 99.99% of the time

[gray gale]

You know, the spin move

[flint tide]

Finn tods nerfed

[scenic lagoon]

And complain about the one miss

[flint tide]

Matchup probably still sucks

I think finn is like designed to be anti jason rather than just being an insanely broken top tier

Like no matter what i think that matchup is always gonna suck

[scenic lagoon]

Yes

[flint tide]

We’ll see

[scenic lagoon]

Finn is a nerd

[flint tide]

Everythings up in the air

Gonna be fun

I wonder if uair combos more consistently now?

[gray gale]

I dunno, if the hitbox changes to the attacks are good enough, we might cook

[west cloak]

Hitbox and frame data buffs let’s go

[flint tide]

Like jab 2 utilt and uair is a true combo on people nw

[flint tide]

Not really

[gray gale]

Yes really

[flint tide]

The only changes apply to his machete attacks

It’d beef up his sair a fair bit

[west cloak]

The patch isn’t live yet

[flint tide]

But sair is trash vs finn becwuse of speed

[gray gale]

The whole point of Jason's design is to space your attacks perfectly to deal with startup

[west cloak]

I thought they said it’s live tomorrow

[gray gale]

And before he just, couldn't space

[flint tide]

Yeah and finn doesn’t really let you do that

[gray gale]

That's a finn thing

[flint tide]

Yeah im talking about finn

[gray gale]

Unrelated to Jason

[flint tide]

Im talking about the finn and jason matchup

Specifically

Not about jason as a whole

[gray gale]

And I'm talking about matchups globally

[flint tide]

I mean yeah you’re right but we’re on different pages lol

The finn matchup is probably still gonna suck is what im saying

[elder vector]

Hey so funny thing i realized rifts wise

cpus escape grabs after a specific amount of time

but they don't have enough time to react to jason's jab

so you can just

jab jab jab a lot lmao

now I don't mind if they patch this out because pve mode but if you want to cheese some fights the answer is there

#clips message

Also for patch changes very glad the machete hitboxes are fixed

neutral attack being slightly more active is very nice

[flint tide]

Its not more active it starts up faster

I think thats better than being more active to be honest

[timber narwhal]

Jason buffed, you love to see it

finally has faster attacks

[flint tide]

I hope speeding his jab up by 1 frame will do something

I’m not familiar with platform fighter frame data and to me it seems a little meh

Could be wrong though

[idle wolf]

They coulda did 2 frames

[flint tide]

The neutral axe change looks nice

I’m most excited by the hitbox buffs and down air buffs

Giving down air a hitbox on his head basically makes it a fullbody attack which will make it a lot more consistent

I gotta test these buffs man

[tacit pivot]

So what is the change?

[flint tide]

2 frame startup increase

*decrease

[tacit pivot]

Interesting so is now faster?

[flint tide]

Yes

[tacit pivot]

Sweet

Sleepy bag got any buff?

[flint tide]

No

[tacit pivot]

Sad

I love that ability

At least he is now faster and his axe is faster

Ngl im happy with it

I hope they bring more perks in th future i wonder which ability could be buffed through them.

[high matrix]

Hello everyone, I wonder what you think of Jason?, he is literally currently the worst character in the game, literally no special can face shaggy's attacks if 2 players attack each other at the same time, making him a PUNCHING BAG, plus his ability to have more resistance is very easy to break, what is the joke of this character? Will the patch fix any of this?}

Literally what's the point of this? what's the point of playing with Jason, if there's Superman who is much faster and more resistant? in addition to having a better hitbox

I'd like some game developer to explain if he'll do more than just fix the character's hitboxes, as he's pretty bad.

[halcyon badger]

Can’t play him the way way you play supes

More of a play slow or take advantage of reads

Plus he’s getting fixed Tmr so he won’t be juggle food as much

[river delta]

Nair and dair buffs seem really nice. Hopefully on top of the general hitbox fixes that should make him feel better at least

[high matrix]

It is not useful to play slow if you have to play against a pro player who plays with fast and high-damage characters. There must be a balance

[tulip plaza]

damn, I got a couple fun jason clips but xbox game bar didn't record em
but I did my classic galaxy combo of axe grab into air grab, then following them off stage and getting another air grab so they had no hope of surviving
it was pretty epic

[timber narwhal]

to play Jason

its less abuse armor for heavy hit

and more bait enemies into heavy hits

you need to use more brains than with supes

jasons problem rn is that he is slow

this is being fixed in the new patch

it will be easier to punish and bait people now

[fickle ledge]

Supes up-tilt doesn't kill at 80.

[high matrix]

We'll see, in any case he could use armor in one of his special hits, since most of his attacks are vunerable

[timber narwhal]

theres no "we'll see"

i just told you how to play jason

you dont play him like supes

[idle wolf]

Looool

[halcyon badger]

You play him brain dead like supes you’re getting 3 stocked

#general message

Is this bait

[thorn wing]

I’d rather die flying into someone from 2 miles away than live playing neutral

[flint tide]

Jason’s fine

He’s not good but he’s not unplayable and the new patch (hopefully) addresses some of his main issues

But frankly the biggest issue with him isn’t even him its the fact other characters are broken as hell

The buffs coupled with the nerfs to the top tiers are basically all he should need (provided the hitbox changes aren’t useless)

[median geyser]

They didn't buff the sleeping bag?

[scenic lagoon]

Because he's more fun

[median geyser]

& horror icon

[scenic lagoon]

Pop culture music icon

[median geyser]

Teenage Frankenstein

[scenic lagoon]

Michael Jason

[median geyser]

Show off some cool moonwalks

[scenic lagoon]

I should make more clips of it

But I have the one

#clips message

[median geyser]

I see it

[scenic lagoon]

The fact it's an actual option is funny af

Cause some people will react to the animation change thinking it's an attack

And just jump into your loving arms

[median geyser]

Yeah

Make them panicking

[flint tide]

played more vs morty and you really do just need to use monstrous sidestep vs him

cant imagine playing vs him without it

worst case scenario even if you don't get to hit him for using dirt you're gonna start forcing him to respect it as well as burn dodge meter

well worst case scenario is he hits you out of it but to do that he has to not be using it in the first place

or you have to be like mad slow on the teleport

[honest yoke]

yeah after you mentioned it i'm definitely gonna start running it against morty to beat dirt

[flint tide]

Yeah i probably would’ve hated him way more if i hadn’t been using it the whole time

I get where you’re coming from

[honest yoke]

i'm probably gonna try using it more in general now with the mindset of using it as a counter and see how i feel about it overall because when i've used it in the past i wasn't really thinking of it that way

[flint tide]

Yeah you don’t just throw it out as like a pure mobility option

It is great after you’ve conditioned people to respect some of your normals and try responding to them though

As well as to deal with projectiles like dirt or harley’s gun

Even black adam stuff

I might try 5% sidestep and see how i feel about it as well

Its probably better in some matchups

[honest yoke]

it definitely makes his recovery a lot better

i think thats the biggest advantage of default sidestep

[flint tide]

Maybe yeah

I think monstrous has good applications on recovery as well you just can’t throw it out as a baseline

Being so fr when i say its unbelievably goated during ledge fights

[honest yoke]

the actual 5% damage and defense increase is more impactful that you'd think too

[flint tide]

Tub wanna run some games

[honest yoke]

sure give me a few minutes though

[flint tide]

Alright ping me when you’re down

[honest yoke]

@flint tide alright i'm ready

[flint tide]

aight one sec lemme finish a match rq

[scenic lagoon]

He's better than me tub

[honest yoke]

yeah no problem

[scenic lagoon]

Don't get cooked too quickly

[honest yoke]

i'll do my best

whenever you're ready tell me your ign and i'll invite

[flint tide]

alright invite me

noktron is my ign

im not better than him lol

[scenic lagoon]

You are

[flint tide]

you see why i love this perk

[honest yoke]

i do

[flint tide]

gonna call it there

ggs

[honest yoke]

ggs

[flint tide]

you're really strong

super aggressive

had to shift how i played to deal with it

[honest yoke]

so are you

i need to be less aggressive honestly

[flint tide]

it kinda caught me off guard

i'm usually a pretty passive player who reacts and waits for things to play out

but then you just jumpscare me with air down special

monstrous sidestep goated 💯 🔥

[scenic lagoon]

So who won

[honest yoke]

yeah i'm definitely gonna try that out now

[flint tide]

you gotta be like

conservative with it

[honest yoke]

i took the first 2 games then noktron took 7 straight

[scenic lagoon]

Makes sense

Moment you addapt to a Jason's playstyle

It's over

Unless you're constantly changing it up and then neutral is just there

[flint tide]

clover plays most similarly to me

so fighting him is extremely weird

[scenic lagoon]

I beat tub 5-1

So like you, pretty equal

And then I was a bit of a cheeky guy switching to Garnet, a character with enough buggy advantages over Jason that it's just not fair

[flint tide]

i gotta go spend time actually learning how to play lebron at some point

funny guy

[honest yoke]

yeah its annoying that grabs just dont work against garnet most of the time

[flint tide]

need to play another character for annoying matchups

well

i dont need to

but it'll be fun

anyway

buffs soon

funt imes

[honest yoke]

check out my man chrisxtophers on youtube he's an amazing lebron and he has a very in depth guide on him

[scenic lagoon]

True true

[flint tide]

i've vaguely clicked on his streams a few times

i ran into him in ranked one time

i mean

not ranked

online

ngl i have no clue how to fight lebron

[honest yoke]

i beat him 10-6 in a ft10 yesterday 🙂

[flint tide]

literally nobody plays him

oh nice

[honest yoke]

i have so much lebron experience solely because of chris

[flint tide]

yeah i just

killed a few lebrons early in the games lifecycle

then never met him

ever again

nobody plays him

[honest yoke]

its such a weird matchup because lebron and jason abuse each other's weaknesses super hard

stocks can go so fast

[flint tide]

monstrous sidestep him bro!!!

(i have no idea if it will work on lebron)

matchups gonna change tomorrow anyway

today i mean

so who knows

[gray gale]

Right now he's easily not the worst character, that is Velma. We'll see post-patch.
Jason has his strengths, but they mostly shine when you learn to space your attacks perfectly to whiff punish. Jason can take stocks FAST and last easily until 200 damage, he has his strengths over other characters, his weaknesses are just ones everyone can exploit

[flint tide]

jason's not great but he's not as bad as people say he is

you can cook with him fr

[gray gale]

I mean

When you can kill most characters at ridiculous damage numbers like 40

[median geyser]

I'd say he's the worst Tank but not worst character

[gray gale]

He's bound to cook you a few times

[median geyser]

The problem is you need to really hit them

Most of his attacks can be easily whiffed

Like the uair special

[flint tide]

i am kind of interested

if the bed fixes are gonna make bed into uair consistent

because it only really works consistently on bigger characters

if it works on the entire cast consistently, awesome

[gray gale]

Already is for the most part

[flint tide]

oh and machete hitbox changes too

well

no

it requires like specific spacing and sometimes just doesn't work a lot on smaller characters

[honest yoke]

why have two youtubers made videos of their sets against me and called me the number 1 jason i never asked for this

[gray gale]

The change with bed is that it vacuums into second hit anyways, I doubt it'll change the up air link

[gray gale]

You are burdened with responsibility

[honest yoke]

one of them was a morty who 5-0'd me 😭

[flint tide]

lol what

that was you

[gray gale]

You're like

[flint tide]

i saw those videos in my recommended actually

[gray gale]

Deku with OFA

Carry on our will, Tub

[flint tide]

its ok tubs you can monstrous sidestep the morty now

all is good in the world

nirvana achieved

[honest yoke]

gonna need him to remake the video while i have monstrous sidestep equipped

[gray gale]

What's with this? Did I miss a patch note with the perk or sum?

[flint tide]

no he jsut never used the perk

until i told him why its good

[median geyser]

Nice we've another Monstrous Sidestep believer

[honest yoke]

i need to make it true now

[flint tide]

monstrous sidestep ledge fight sair into wallbounce instant kill my beloved

[gray gale]

Why?

[flint tide]

it has so many applications

you can use it to counteract projectiles

[gray gale]

?

[flint tide]

as a recovery tool to screw with people trying to knock you offstage and counter them

[honest yoke]

the main reason you use it against morty is to teleport behind them when they use dirt

[flint tide]

and it also is safe against most attacks thrown in neutral

let's say i'm fighting black adam

right

if he does his annoying air blasts to keep zoning me

i can teleport behind him and kill him

[gray gale]

I mean... you can probably just walk up to them

Endlag nerf was BIG

[flint tide]

at the same time if he decides to dash attack at me

i'll teleport behind him and be safe

[honest yoke]

talking about before patch here

[flint tide]

in some cases, even a punish

if the spacing is right like im near the ledge or something

its just a very versatile ability that lets you punish people for stuff they do

its strongest application imo is when you're on the ledge

it genuinely makes fighting jason on the ledge like

actually terrifying

[honest yoke]

yeah it does

it was so much harder to edgeguard you because of that

[flint tide]

lol

[gray gale]

Rq

Monstrous sidestep allows you to act out of side special faster than without it

Right?

[flint tide]

idk

[gray gale]

Bruh

[flint tide]

ive literally never used regular sidestep

i don't think so?

you can cancel an attack from the teleport in both variants

so unless monstrous speeds that cancel up

which im pretty positive it doesn't

then no there shouldn't be a difference

[honest yoke]

it definitely doesnt feel any different

[flint tide]

no difference then

[gray gale]

I thought the selling point was that you could buffer an attack out of mosntrous sidestep, but not default

[flint tide]

the selling point is it teleports you behind them

insanely useful

[gray gale]

I'm going to teleport you to malaysia

[flint tide]

always wanted to go there

kuantan would be nice

[honest yoke]

after the patch hits i'm entering my training arc

i wanna place in a tournament and i think it'll actually be possible for jason after his hitboxes are fixed

[flint tide]

the main issue is just how many matchups he struggles with

with the nerfs to the top tiers

as well as his buffs

totally

i see arya and finn still being real problems but everyone else...maybe fair game...?

[honest yoke]

i honestly think jason is gonna be winning against bugs after the patch

[flint tide]

there are some kinda rough but totally doable matchups that are probably gonna stay like that as well

[honest yoke]

with bugs not being able to nair loop anymore

[flint tide]

maybe

i can see that

harley matchup should be a little less suffocating

now that she can't just infinitely juggle you forever

and some of her aerials have more recovery

[honest yoke]

i'm curious how the joker MU will be

i'm sure still losing

[flint tide]

either fine or like bad but not that bad

[honest yoke]

but it could be close to even at least

[flint tide]

it also really does depent on how relevant jason's changes are

[honest yoke]

yeah

how generous they were with the hitbox changes will matter a lot

and we dont really know if more combo routes are gonna open up

there probably will be but can't really say for sure yet

i'm hoping jab 1 down air becomes a consistent option

[flint tide]

oh right

i need to do that thing you did

i didn't even know you could do like jab 2 dtilt into jabs

[honest yoke]

its very situational

[flint tide]

jab 1 dair?

is that a thing

[honest yoke]

it is a thing but doesnt work until high percents

unless you jab them midair then it works at any percent

[flint tide]

lol what

wait thats insane

[honest yoke]

or rage jab

[flint tide]

i use jab as an anti air against ww

[honest yoke]

also if you hit them from too far away it can be hard to get the dair to connect

oh also rage jab 1 dair is true at basically all percents

[flint tide]

thats nuts wtf

[honest yoke]

this one only works against mid-heavyweights at very low percents like basically 0

[flint tide]

oh my god

jab 1 into dair is insane

yo

[honest yoke]

but since they're in the air after down tilt when you land the second jab 1 after it true combos into down air

[flint tide]

with rage thats legit 42% on my perk setup

would do even more if i used 5%

loool

okay thats actually nuts

what % does it work without rage?

[tropic eagle]

Wym jab 1 into dair? There isn't time to jump after just one jab.

[honest yoke]

depends on the character but on shaggy i think its like 70ish

[honest yoke]

there is

[scenic lagoon]

Just be faster

I guess

[honest yoke]

it just doesnt work all of the time you need higher percent or a certain setup for it to be true

[scenic lagoon]

I just go for very simple and consistent stuff

Or dodge reads

[flint tide]

uh

im not sure if this actually works or not

training mode dodge on hitstun is

SUPER buggy

if you jab shaggy without rage, he will dodge after hitstun

but in rage, he doesn't

i can't tell if thats true or not

[scenic lagoon]

Nah

It's because rage gives extra damage

[honest yoke]

before the patch that removed jab dodge loops jason could jab 1 dodge jab 1 down air at any percent

[scenic lagoon]

Aka, also extra hitstun

[flint tide]

bro what

hold up nvm apparently i can do it on shaggy just as a true combo

from like 5%

[honest yoke]

put it on dodge neutral instead of dodge after hitstun

[flint tide]

without rage

alright

[honest yoke]

then it just always dodges

[flint tide]

yeah dude jab 1 into dair works on shaggy

without rage

at like 0

[scenic lagoon]

Won't next update

[honest yoke]

oh true

[scenic lagoon]

Cause the parry changes

[honest yoke]

that sucks so bad

[scenic lagoon]

Yea for them

[flint tide]

why is training mode so whack

[honest yoke]

i noticed that recently actually but i wasnt sure if thats real or not because you definitely needed it to be an anti air in the first couple patches for it to be true

[flint tide]

LOOOOL

so

because of the bed bug

you can get

a 58% true combo on superman

glad thats gone next patch

but that is really funny

[honest yoke]

yeah you can use bed bug to reset jab its so funny

and there are actually consistent setups into it

[flint tide]

dude what

this is actually insane

he can do this?

this like

[scenic lagoon]

I don't use stuff like that

[flint tide]

fundamentally changes how his jab works

[scenic lagoon]

Because it's always gonna get patched

[flint tide]

well

i mean no it doesn't its just

insane reward

off a jab

[honest yoke]

you can also land with dair and combo into jab again

[scenic lagoon]

I mean

The bed stuff is getting removed

(that's copium tho)

Every platform fighter dev says "We fixed the vacuum effect to work perfectly" and then it still doesn't

[honest yoke]

i dont think jab dair loops are a thing though because of DI

[scenic lagoon]

The curse of multihits binds every platform fighter

[flint tide]

is jab dair jab jab side special legit?

[honest yoke]

yeah thats real

at high enough percent jab dair jab stops working because dair puts them too high

so it might not be very practical to kill with

[harsh sorrel]

Jason is getting real hurtboxes!

[flint tide]

thats fine

because dair should combo into uspecial then right

[honest yoke]

yeah

[flint tide]

oh hell yeah

[harsh sorrel]

Jab1-dair- up special?

[flint tide]

dude i need to start doing that

i think it's range specific

i tried it in matches vs a shaggy player and at the like tip of my machete i was having trouble with it

[flint tide]

ya

[harsh sorrel]

That sounds specific as to how you hit the jab

[flint tide]

tub cooked up some dark evil combo material forged in the ninth realm of janallparaa

[harsh sorrel]

But i'd wanna try it

[flint tide]

need to start doing this

[honest yoke]

it used to be so consistent

[flint tide]

might be even better after patch too

damn...

if this is like

really consistent post patch thats nuts

legit 42% off a jab

prob like 47% if you have the 5% increase

[honest yoke]

we are getting a frame less of startup on dair i believe

[flint tide]

yeah but

hitbox changes too

so its more consistent in that regard as well

god damn

[honest yoke]

i am scared that jab dair loops are gonna become a thing and then its not gonna exist at all after

[flint tide]

nah because

the new combo decay system will prevent stuff like that existin

good combos are allowed to exist in the game from what i understand just

ideally not crazy loops

[honest yoke]

before jason got nerfed i hit a 97 damage combo on superman

ended in up special but it didn't kill 😦

[flint tide]

before he what

[honest yoke]

he got nerfed

[flint tide]

when

[honest yoke]

same time he got buffed

[flint tide]

true...

good riddance

give me working bed over specific 97 combos anyday 😭

[honest yoke]

fr

[flint tide]

the amount of times i legit murder someone with bed

and then they just glitch out

and then smack me off stage

[gray gale]

Dude

Agent Smith looks metal asf

I might pick him up

[timber cedar]

I think the patch notes said their gonna reduce the amount of rifts needed to unlock him

thank god

[gray gale]

no

they're reducing the amount of rifts to unlock the matrix outfits of the other characters

but Agent Smith is still the same

[tulip plaza]

well either way I like that cus I really want that matrix agent smith

I just like having as many skins as possible

[timber cedar]

oh

damn

[languid harbor]

Same. Hope he's good too. He looks good and cool

[tiny cave]

how much

i beated 13 rifts so far

[timber cedar]

it’s only for the skins

and not sure yet

[tiny cave]

i finally unlocked jason X

[languid harbor]

Wooo

Im so close too.

Im on the velma jason pfp

In time for the jason buffs

[tiny cave]

when is the patch coming out?

i think it was today

[knotty sage]

9am pdt

[languid harbor]

God i feel so bad. I bullyd a jason in 1v1 as marvin

He had uber skin

[idle wolf]

Unpopular Opinon: Jason vs. Marvin matchup is even

[mental oar]

INSANE

[flint tide]

Idk much about marvin

Nobody plays him and the few good players of him i’ve ran into steamroll me because idk how he works

[mental oar]

From what I've gone against he's really good at juggling but most characters can do that to Jason

[idle wolf]

Your teleport dodges 85% of his projectiles

[west cloak]

Dude Marvin is debatably Jason’s worst matchup lmao

[flint tide]

No he isn’t

[idle wolf]

Far from worst

[west cloak]

Who is worse?

[idle wolf]

Taz, Finn, Superman exist

[flint tide]

Even when i was getting steamrolled by him i could tell it wasn’t close to that bad

Joker taz and finn

[west cloak]

Taz I can see

[flint tide]

Are all contenders for his worst matchups

[west cloak]

And Finn

[flint tide]

Arya as well

[west cloak]

Definitely not Superman tho

[flint tide]

Superman is bad but not as bad as those ones

[idle wolf]

I can show you why Superman steam rolls Jason

[flint tide]

Yeah fighting superman sucks

[idle wolf]

You can't dodge through Superman nair

[flint tide]

It just sucks slightly less than fighting finn or arya

At least you get cool combos on superman

[idle wolf]

Yea Superman you can at least fight back

[scenic lagoon]

I have a MU chart, if anyone wants to see my opinion, I can send it in dm, just dm me

[west cloak]

Jason loses to like basically every character except Velma in 1v1

[flint tide]

Even more unpopular opinion

Jason beats iron giant

[west cloak]

That’s such a hard cap

[idle wolf]

Lol I don't play tooooo many IGs

Jason beats Bugs Bunny tho

[flint tide]

Nah i got reasoning for it

[west cloak]

IG is insane

[idle wolf]

Send chart

[west cloak]

IG is debatably top 5

[flint tide]

Jason’s kit is highkey perfect for stopping so much of ig’s nonsense

Uspecial covers so much space

[idle wolf]

IG top 1

[flint tide]

Because of ig’s extended hurtbox you can legit grab him from like halfway across the map

[west cloak]

In tournament yeah

[flint tide]

Also he has terrible options for dealing with rage

Legit rage is amazing vs ig

[west cloak]

But for the general public, it’s more like top 5 imo

[flint tide]

All of his multihits are slow and predictable

And his grab sucks

I legit believe ig is jasons one good matchup

Post patch i think he’ll destroy him even more

[west cloak]

You haven’t played against a top IG

[flint tide]

I’ve played some pretty good igs

[west cloak]

You’ll quickly change your mind

[idle wolf]

Yo is a guy named Tubs in here?

[west cloak]

IG is banned in tournaments still because he’s that broken

[flint tide]

I understand how his kit functions well enough to where i can understand the situations he forms

[west cloak]

Yes

[idle wolf]

Why you let that Morty player do you like that man @honest yoke

[flint tide]

Yeah tubs is in here

[idle wolf]

He not even nice bruh

[flint tide]

He forgot to equip monstrous sidestep bro

[idle wolf]

Bro I was so pissed watching that match

Morty dude was just casually chatting while spamming dirt and bombs lmfaoooo

[flint tide]

Yeah sure

[idle wolf]

They need to make it so we can post media in here bro

[flint tide]

Dude you like need monstrous vs morty

[idle wolf]

100% @flint tide

[flint tide]

I legit cannot imagine that mu without monstrous

You just die

[west cloak]

Morty dirt is unironically like a top 5 move in the game or better

It invalidates so many characters

[idle wolf]

Dirt is up there i'm not gonna lie

[flint tide]

Dirt is fantastic

I dunno how other chars deal with it but i assume for ones who can’t its just ggs

[west cloak]

The 10 extra frames of whiff lag is a slap on the wrist

[west cloak]

Correct

[flint tide]

Morty matchup is a lil tough even with monstrous so

Imagine not having a tool to deal with it loool

[mental oar]

Morty's always been a difficult matchup personally, feels like he's perfectly designed for hatred

[flint tide]

Nah morty is tough for sure

Grenades are insane

[idle wolf]

I think the best moves in game
Dirt
Thunder Clap (Black Adam)
Shaggy Up Special
Wonder Woman Side Special (Aerial)
Joker Everything

[flint tide]

Dirt is really strong

[mental oar]

Grenades and the snake thing are awful

Dirt too

[flint tide]

Shaggy up special is good but it’s not a do everything move

[mental oar]

He gets away with so much

[flint tide]

Black adam’s flight is his best move

Black adam’s flight is crazy

[idle wolf]

Flight is nuts I can't lie

[west cloak]

Well, it got pretty heavily nerfed, so don’t expect it to do much anymore lol

[west cloak]

This I agree with

[idle wolf]

Just gave me a video idea

[flint tide]

No it didn’t?

It got nerfed but like

Not that hard

[idle wolf]

Every characters best move

[fickle ledge]

🫡

[west cloak]

Less damage, less knockback, you can DI more horizontally, utilt doesn’t combo into it anymore at any percent

[flint tide]

Shaggys best move is probably just his side special tbh

[west cloak]

☠️

[mental oar]

Whatchu feeling on Jason

[flint tide]

Feels kinda character defining

[idle wolf]

His BEST move probably forward air tbh

[mental oar]

Up special usually takes care of things

[west cloak]

Rage side special is decent as a whiff punish option

[mental oar]

Forward air is good too

[flint tide]

His best move is monstrous

[west cloak]

Shaggy’s real best move is jab

[idle wolf]

Monstrous is good af can't lie

[flint tide]

If monstrous didn’t exist i think jason would be much worse

He just wouldn’t have an option to deal with so much stuff

[idle wolf]

You know there's people who think the perk is useless?

[flint tide]

Yes i am trying to fix that

Tubs sees the light

[idle wolf]

I've been trying to spread the gospel

[west cloak]

It’s not useless, but it does pretty severely hurt his recovery

[mental oar]

Monstrous goes insane man

[flint tide]

No it doesn’t

[idle wolf]

You get a kill confirm at 60%-70% on all the cast

[west cloak]

People don’t know the counterplay

[mental oar]

Monstrous into neutral special my beloved

[idle wolf]

You shouldn't recover with Mist Step that often in general

[flint tide]

To be honest from what i can tell it actually just seems outright better than his normal sidestep for recovery

[west cloak]

Jump off stage backwards and dair

[flint tide]

Because you can punish regular mist step the same way

[mental oar]

Feels so raw catching people mid air and sending them where they belong

[west cloak]

It’s 100% consistent

[flint tide]

I mean yeah if you do nothing but spam it

You’re not supposed to just constantly teleport

[west cloak]

You can do that on reaction

[flint tide]

You mix it in with your other neutral options to catch people off guard and force mistakes

[west cloak]

Like monstrous is better for combos

But it’s so easy to call out if Jason is off stage

[flint tide]

Actually offstage is where is best

[west cloak]

Too big of a trade off imo

[flint tide]

If someone is trying to fight jason on the ledge he can literally murder them with it

If you’re clinging to a wall and someone jumps off to spike you

Tp behind them

Dair

Sair

Whatever you want

[west cloak]

That’s so reactable tho

[flint tide]

How are you reacting to something when you’re trying to hit jason

You’re mid attack

You can’t do two things at once

[west cloak]

I mean, 90% of the playerbase is pretty awful

So it probably works the majority of the time

[flint tide]

If they’re trying to react to the sidestep they’re not able to chase you

This works on good players

This isn’t something you just avoid past a certain skill threshold

[west cloak]

I can see it working once as a mixup

[flint tide]

Mental stack is a real thing

It’s also fast enough as an option to be pretty consistejt

Ask any of the people i’ve played with in here what i do with monstrous

It genuinely has so many uses

[idle wolf]

You can get mixed up easily as a good player by monstrous

[flint tide]

Anti zoning, safe against attacks thrown out at roughly same time, insane option on the ledge

And acts as a neutral option to screw with people after commanding respect with his other attacks

[wheat lotus]

tom and jerry neutral special should be in discussion

[idle wolf]

You can swing too early
Swing the wrong way (happens A LOT)
Trade with my buffered move

[flint tide]

It’s really solid

[devout burrow]

monstrous has the upside of letting you feint your sidestep and go nowhere

but overall it's just meh

[flint tide]

It what

[idle wolf]

You can buffer a jump out of Monstrous as well

[west cloak]

The only thing I can definitely see it being useful for is as a punish for zoners

[flint tide]

Idk how people fight morty without monstrous

[devout burrow]

if you hold back during the sidestep you go nowhere

[idle wolf]

Anyone want to run some games?

[west cloak]

Like this is a matchup you’d definitely need it in

[flint tide]

Huh

[idle wolf]

You can manipulate Monstrous

If you're above a platform you'll teleport to the platform instead of behind your opponent

If you're about 5 Jason's away you'll TP in place

[devout burrow]

you can also manually change how you teleport without monstrous

by holding up or down

doesn't work grounded tho

[idle wolf]

Yea I don't really like the regular Monstrous you have to work too hard to get where you want to be

[muted spire]

Just pull an all nighter.

[honest yoke]

Wtf was I supposed to do when I didn't have monstrous

He can do whatever he wants he don't even gotta ask permission

That's just the Morty privilege

[idle wolf]

Its all good bro I was just hurt to see a Jason get beat like that

[median geyser]

What nighter

[idle wolf]

JASON TECH: You can chain grab people with aerial neutral special on walls to rack up damage

[west cloak]

Was that not already known?

I’ve done that before myself

[idle wolf]

Probably but odds are someone didn't know. A lot of people don't even use the grab

[muted spire]

All-nighter. Just keep playing pvp through the night. Win or lose.

[west cloak]

I mean, it’s really really slow and Jason has a disjointed hurtbox for some reason

I don’t blame people for never using it

I hardly use it myself

[idle wolf]

Its REALLY good

[idle wolf]

#clips message

[west cloak]

When it lands yeah

[idle wolf]

I land it all the time

On good people

Keep in mind when people are in burnout and when they dodge in

Easy pickings

[languid harbor]

AAA im so close! I got the jason banner

[muted spire]

Don't give up dude

[honest yoke]

I'm kinda disappointed that the one time I lost a set to Chrisxtophers was after he told me it's gonna be a video

[flint tide]

I don’t really get the point of the grab im ngl

[languid harbor]

Ive done both the daily and weekly missions. I really wanna get the skin before the update

[flint tide]

I only really do it if i’m tryna break armour

I’d rather just use sair

[west cloak]

If you catch someone that is in burnout, you should be able to kill them with every character

[idle wolf]

Well that's the point of the grab lol

[muted spire]

You can try PvP.

[honest yoke]

I use it a lot for reads

[idle wolf]

Really not a believer? Sair is good but the grab has more range

[flint tide]

Does it?

[honest yoke]

It gives you more value than sair because you can get follow ups

[west cloak]

Grab is higher risk but higher reward

[languid harbor]

True but thats alot of grind in an hour

[honest yoke]

I use grab into down special a lot

[flint tide]

On stages with walls grab is better

[west cloak]

But it’s also so ungodly slow that it’s not worth using 99% or the time imo

[flint tide]

For sure

[idle wolf]

You can get some crazy gimps with grab

[muted spire]

It's totally worth it. Believe me.

[idle wolf]

Y'all should watch my vid (no self promo) lmfao

[west cloak]

It’s only worth if you can combo into it from like a wall combo or dair stage spike

[idle wolf]

https://youtu.be/1uDqWhrDMZU

[honest yoke]

It doesn't make it not self promo by saying no self promo

[idle wolf]

Way to ruin the illusion @honest yoke

[flint tide]

Bro played jason in the hyperbolic time chamber

[idle wolf]

Nah I'm twice as good as everybody so I get double exp

[flint tide]

True

[idle wolf]

But just peep the grabs

[honest yoke]

His game was on 2x speed just like his video so he got twice as many hours

[idle wolf]

Loool I had to speed it up bro I was getting pissed off

[flint tide]

Fire video

[idle wolf]

It has longer active frames than Sair too

[honest yoke]

Yeah I was just about to say that

[flint tide]

I guess i should try using it more

[idle wolf]

Basically a lingering box that kills you if you dodge into it

[honest yoke]

Which makes it better for catching dodges

[idle wolf]

It extends a little past his arm so you can sometimes grab people of out attacks

[idle wolf]

Its a cool mix up nothing detrimental

[west cloak]

His arm hurtbox actually extends noticeably past his arm

Lemme see if I can find the screenshot

[idle wolf]

it does unfortunately

[devout burrow]

I don't think you should ever use grab

outside of like

[idle wolf]

His whole arm hit/hurt boxes just suck

[honest yoke]

Jason is really good at setting up dodge read situations and grab is one of his best options to take advantage of that

[devout burrow]

hard callouts vs armored players

[flint tide]

Ok im starting to see the vision here

[idle wolf]

I'm open to anything you guys find works well with Jason

I didn't know about Down Special (Aerial) canceling

[devout burrow]

it is really funny

[odd oyster]

Hello

[idle wolf]

Bro and the hit box on the second hit of down special is NUTS omfg

[west cloak]

#clips message

This is his grab hitboxes

[idle wolf]

Sooo trash bruh wtf @west cloak

[flint tide]

how the hell do you view hitboxes

[idle wolf]

There's something in the files you can change

[west cloak]

Editing a specific file on PC

[idle wolf]

You should be able to find out how on reddit

[flint tide]

would maybe be a good idea to get a view of his current hitboxes vs his post patch hitboxes

[west cloak]

I don’t remember exactly how, but you can look it up

[flint tide]

so we can see what actually changed about his machete moves

[west cloak]

Yes