Joker

[soft raft]

I don't even know what to say cuz that still doesn't show anything about your point of joker not being "as strong"

Cuz I have experience against saiki, 2 sets against him and I can clearly says joker still top 1

But you don't want to show anything, just stats that says that I have a better winrate that u I guess?

[brisk heath]

I literally surpass you in every stat by a 20%-60% including victory, you don't even have 2 v 2 experience excluding one single match this season. Rank doesn't means anything since the whole point of matchmaking is MMR.

[dusky prairie]

How do u lose with Joker i feel like its impossible

[soft raft]

I literally have 200 games less than you and we have almost the same stadistics, that's actually embarrasing

But you don't want to pass your wb user, you don't want to say the top 3 of the meta rn, you only talk

I can show why joker is broken, can you show that he is "not that strong" like you said?

[brisk heath]

You are not giving proof about the joker being broken, all your credibility drops down the momento you give false information about him. Like saying he has a true 0 TD

[waxen mauve]

he sent me a vid of it, i can send it to ya if you want

[brisk heath]

Send it to me.

He probably put the bot in very easy

[soft raft]

I have proof of the best player of the game saying that joker still top 1 and that's why he's not leaving that character, how he won 5 tournaments in a row with him and how the character has multiple routes and kill confirms that goes as low as 30% but you don't believe me cuz it's not my recording?

It's pointless you have 0 proof of what you say while I have a lot of proof that you don't take simply because you don't want to

[brisk heath]

He won those tournaments before joker nerf?

Or after?

[quaint leaf]

Joker is just simply stupidly strong with a ton of tools, and little punish to said moves/techniques

[brisk heath]

You can count that tools with just one hand. What's your point, half of his immediate action movies are situational and one is useless.

[fierce portal]

Woah jokers had action spinoffs?

[fair nymph]

He’s rage baiting bro he doesn’t even wanna show his wb id

[half gyro]

I’m pretty sure everybody except joker mains would rank joke between top 1 and 3

Shaggy would be up there too I assume

[solar geyser]

I use joker when my connection is shotty cause I can still win while lagging with him lol

🗿

[fair nymph]

Real

[fair nymph]

Scum

[waxen mauve]

daniel san got beef with ig and jonkler

thats not the miyagi do way daniel san

[fair nymph]

It very much is cloudy San I must teach u the miyagi do way

[brisk heath]

Btw MVShiroGane main is wonder woman not joker and all the statements of him saying the character is broken is pre patch. Now wonder woman is over the character again.

Now the top 8 players includes none joker.

Wonder Woman
Agent Smith
Batman
Bugs
Rick
Harley
Jason
Iron giant

[fair nymph]

Huh wym top 8 characters

[fair nymph]

Wym what difference between pre patch and this joker he didn’t even get patched😭🙏🏾

[dense radish]

Nahh man fym he got 1 whole jab nerf sheesh 🥶🤯

[fair nymph]

If they would have done the same thing that they did to Ricks jab Joker would still be good

[dusky prairie]

Bro wtf is this tier list

[tropic crown]

joker is good still

DI bad and i can kill you at 40

off a jab

[brisk heath]

Is not a tier list, it's a list the most viable characters in a competitive tournament.

[tropic crown]

joker is viable

[dusky prairie]

Joker is better than they all

[tropic crown]

Af

[dusky prairie]

Joker is super viable

[tropic crown]

he’s the best char

[dusky prairie]

Are u jokiny

Bro this guy

[tropic crown]

Crazy how jason is even on that list i was dead laughing

😂😂

[dusky prairie]

No way this guy isnt ragebaiter

[tropic crown]

Its not even rage bait

it’s comedy

[dusky prairie]

He is better than Banana1

[tropic crown]

😂😂

[brisk heath]

Just because you suck playing Jason doesn't means is a bad character.

[dusky prairie]

He is not bad, just not tournament viable

[brisk heath]

But he still the main of one of the best top 8 players in tournaments and he really is good in good hands. Is like the Jigglypuff of multiversus.

But anyway shaggy is very very overturned.

So the list is only of the best character used by profesional. Doesn't means is a tier list.

Shaggy and Arya aren't there.

Neither gizmo.

[fair nymph]

Than why is Rick up there unless ur talking about 2s

[brisk heath]

Wait, do you really think Rick is only viable in 2 vs 2?

[fair nymph]

Yes are u slow

Has to be ragebait

[brisk heath]

Rick. . . Only viable in 2 v 2? Are you seeing stars or something?

[soft raft]

A single tournament doesn't say anything about the character and btw, it was a small tournament, important people weren't there so you don't see Saiki or FPZ playing with joker, the best of the character

You don't even see the best players there, no tamunokuro, no anthos, no greetaku, that's why you see jason there

Cuz if you see the results of FPZ he is getting constantly top 1 with joker after the nerfs
Saiki doesn't play tournaments rn but he still says joker it's either top 1 or 2

Joker is not as crazy as release but cmon he still strong af, has easy bnb and kill power, he doesn't have a major weakness like other characters

[tropic crown]

saiki only interested in tournaments for a lot of money

[soft raft]

Ur actually right, it's something like the leviathan case, best morty of all time, he didn't wanted to enter any tournament

[fair nymph]

Bro I’m convinced ur rage baiting Rick currently sucks at 1s rn

[tropic crown]

not everyone’s opinion is rage bait

that’s one problem with this community

you guys always think something is rage bait

[wary snow]

he explained why - there's a lot of time commitment involved. Sounds fair enough. Not just training, but also waiting around on the day.

[fair nymph]

When u say stuff like that u are

[short zephyr]

He's referring to a tournament that happened yesterday and the ppl in top 8 played these characters.

It's from into the multiverse.

Just reminding for those who didnt know.

[fair nymph]

Do u have a link to the tournament

[short zephyr]

sure, gimme a sec

[short zephyr]

https://www.start.gg/tournament/into-the-multiverse-9-singles-edition/details

[fair nymph]

Appreciate

I jsut wished it showed the characters they played

[short zephyr]

hang on

[short zephyr]

https://x.com/NSTournamentHub/status/1830807256436285742

[fair nymph]

Appreciate it

[tropic crown]

i knew smith was braindead

the moment i fought one

dudes be eating their teeth talking how

“sMiTh HaS A HIgh skiLL ceiling”

[dusky prairie]

"I knew Smith was braindead the moment i lost to one"

[fair nymph]

Scum

[tropic crown]

first i play good players like hollowhawkins

secondly

when they discovered how to catch ur tech they can just abuse bounce combos

and his uppercut is true into a second one

he can also slide off ledge and shoot you on edge

they figured out how to edge guard with it

[dusky prairie]

Thats smith entire thing, without that he can kill comfirm only at pretty hig %

[tropic crown]

thing is it’s not his only combos

i mean you saw the tournament results

[dusky prairie]

No Twitter is blocked in my country

[tropic crown]

smith got second place

WW was first

[dusky prairie]

Hm i think he is a skilled Smith

Is there a video for the tournament

[tropic crown]

not sure but maybe

no jokers up there surprising

i play joker now and if you di bad you just die

[dusky prairie]

Joker should get 10000 nerfs

Not a single buff

🤤

[tropic crown]

joker balanced tbh

as i play him

i see how balanced he is

[half gyro]

You’re crazy

[dusky prairie]

No he isnt

Stop the cap

[wary snow]

with the joker, I struggle with the special air down. Landing it is fine, but when I watch the top players, they combo it into pogo, then balloon and finally flying crowbar. When I try all this, I can barely make it to pogo. What am I missing if their damage is low? Do they need to be in burnout?

[tropic crown]

Do you want to lab in a custom game

[wary snow]

Really? That's kind of you. Are you on now or prefer later?

I've beaten the occasional platinum opponent but generally lose the set. I'm Gold II ATM and I know the next step requires this combo.

[tropic crown]

right now

[wary snow]

ok, loading up the game, will dm

[fierce portal]

Putting joker outside of top 8 is crazy work

[fair nymph]

Hes ragebaiting

[fierce portal]

Homeless man callin another homeless man broke

[brisk heath]

But it's literally the official results of a tournament.

[fierce portal]

One tournament?

[brisk heath]

An important tournament. The winner was the same person that literally incentivated many people to hate the joker pre nerfs. The so called "always win as joker" but his main is wonder woman.

[fierce portal]

Okay?

Tournament results almost never dictate character strength

[brisk heath]

No, because it was the contra argument about a discussion about that player.

[fierce portal]

Okay

[brisk heath]

That message was from a previous discussion.

[fierce portal]

Hes still like

The most well known joker rep

[pulsar crystal]

As a smash player this

Anyway

[fierce portal]

Brother as a blazblue fan

[pulsar crystal]

Fair

[fierce portal]

Where the NA scene has maybe one rep of the top 5

But yeah like

Shiros gone through characters

Happens

[pulsar crystal]

Main thing is a player can be good and still call for character nerfs

Even if they beat that character

[fierce portal]

Using reps an tournament results r like

Snoreeeee

It didnt matter when leffen picked up happy chaos to prove he was broken

Because hes still leffen

[pulsar crystal]

Also btw there is only one Steve rep in the top 10 players for SSBU

Miya plays him but doesn’t main him

[fierce portal]

Well like

[pulsar crystal]

Steve is still the best character in the game tho

But he doesn’t have the reps aside from 1

[fierce portal]

You cant fit ults top tiers into a top 15 😭

[pulsar crystal]

Fair

[fierce portal]

Or a top 20 😭

[pulsar crystal]

But either way Steve has been said to be broken and everyone agrees the best character in the game

That’s the difference

Steve is beatable and still absurdly good but everyone wants him toned down

[fierce portal]

But yeah im not reading any of the incoherent blabber you people spew at each other here so, whoevers using whatever to prove whatever like kill em with hammers idk

[fierce portal]

Removed

[pulsar crystal]

?

[fierce portal]

Want him removed

[pulsar crystal]

Yep

[fierce portal]

Steve is beatable but hes unhealthy

[pulsar crystal]

Because they made a kit so profoundly broken with the ideas of Platform fighterers

[fierce portal]

Unlike launch joker who was unbeatable and unhealthy lole but like

[pulsar crystal]

What made him unbeatable?

[fierce portal]

I think launch joker highlighted everything wrong with the game on launch

Everything he did was safe

[pulsar crystal]

Carry over from beta

[fierce portal]

The risk/reward on him was skewed to the point where it coulda just been "reward"

[pulsar crystal]

From what I’ve heard he was finished for beta but never released

[fierce portal]

Big icky buttons

Having everything that you could ask for which he still has but like

[pulsar crystal]

Which is why he feels like a beta character compared to Jason or BG

[fierce portal]

With things like side b as it was, being able to clip you, take about 20-30 by itself while also being unpunishable

Wasnt interactive, wasnt enjoyable

[pulsar crystal]

Yep

[fierce portal]

It was like

[pulsar crystal]

He wasn’t poorly designed, he was designed well for a different game system

[fierce portal]

Snake eye incarnated into a fighting game

[pulsar crystal]

Thats the issue

[fierce portal]

A lotta characters had similar issues but like

Holy lord

How they let that slide

[pulsar crystal]

Were any of them from before launch?

Like non beta

[fierce portal]

I think another example of like

Overlooked, overtuned moves would be morty wall

[pulsar crystal]

Ah dirt

How I loathe thee

[fierce portal]

BAs air down b was also pretty bad from what i remember

Not as bad as like

Eaugh

[pulsar crystal]

Fair

But notice thar these are all beta characters, they just messed up hard when porting over some characters

More like most

[fierce portal]

That would not change my verdict

Joker was a step above

[pulsar crystal]

Fair

Cards to me is a problem

[fierce portal]

I think cards on their own are whatever

[pulsar crystal]

Fair

[fierce portal]

I think shuffling them increasing the odds of a wild

Is stupid

[pulsar crystal]

Rng is dumb

I feel like Jokers combo game is just insane

Especially since he ain’t fragile

[fierce portal]

Yeah his weight is really odd

It is not necessary for him to be as heavy as WW

[pulsar crystal]

Thing is Arya and Finn are really light and super combo heavy which makes sense

[fierce portal]

Its more that all round characters, which is what joker is, kinda, are never above average for weight/health

And if so its not by much

He has a buncha strong tools, kills early fairly well and struggles at dying

Probably the one change i would make to him in the current stage of the game

Maybe change the balloon grab as well in some way but they made the same decision for BA

Which, as much as i disagree with the design philosophy behind characters who are frail, with everything the game asks for in a character

Wouldnt be terrible when the weights are so absurd

[soft raft]

Saiki is doing a tier list rn and guess what 2 characters are at 1v1 god tier? yeah, Joker and Shaggy

[tropic crown]

shaggy is dumb and always has been

once you are around

80 health a jab combo can kill you

[fair nymph]

Scum

[waxen mauve]

Day three of no jokers in ranked

[tropic crown]

lol wait until i get to diamond

i just don’t have the time 😭

[waxen mauve]

vro im like, three wins away from master

the second i get there im droping the game

[tropic crown]

😂

[barren plover]

scum

[waxen mauve]

scum

[green turret]

man i can't wait for proper joker nerfs

[fierce portal]

Cant wait for the lebron nerfs brother

[green turret]

same

[fierce portal]

Aye

[fair nymph]

Scum

[fair nymph]

Scum

[paper topaz]

Scum

[waxen mauve]

mucs

[main jasper]

Scum

[dusky prairie]

I dont like people that play this character

[fair nymph]

No one does

[earnest jasper]

Scum

[waxen mauve]

Evil jonkler cart

[fair nymph]

This guy gets it

[thin spire]

Why

Do you spam acid when you start losing

[fair nymph]

Nice rate bait

[barren plover]

this character is literally cheating

why is there no whiff to baton

i’ve been winning every game since i started playing him

that card cooldown is practically non existent and you can run the whole game just spamming card

[fair nymph]

Yah pretty much

But they’ll jsut buff Wonder Woman and nerf garnet or something

Scum

[thin spire]

Why are all jokers cowards

[fair nymph]

Bc they have no life and no gf

It’s a sad life tbh

[novel temple]

💀

[fair nymph]

Scum

[winged moat]

why does the Jonkler laugh to his own jokes? is he stupid?

[waxen mauve]

officer balls

[barren plover]

too much battery acid

yeah but don’t tell him his jokes aren’t funny he will kill your family and make sure you laugh at it

[dense radish]

So does every joker main just have like the same 1 brain cell

Like ur all connected to one massive server room programmed to do the same thing

[dusky prairie]

Lol

[dull trout]

Scum

[barren plover]

Scum

it’s funny how no one talks in here because the character is so easy to use

[chrome crag]

nerf this guy, dair and upair shouldn’t true combo smh

[dense radish]

are u guys ready to get zero nerfs and come into the season as possibly the strongest character still 😍🙏

[brisk heath]

You guys are so delusional wanting joker nerfs. Just get good, even pfg knows better that he is In a very good position right now.

He receive a lot of nerf in whiff.

Which was the thing that I was saying could be healthy executed for joker.

.

I was correct.

Man I'm proud of myself for predicting joker nerfs.

[fair nymph]

Ah yes very scum and top tier abuser favorite line

“Get good”

Enjoy the nerf scum

[brisk heath]

You will still complain somehow even after the correct changes.

Still wonder why he still classified as a heavy character.

[fair nymph]

Yah wtv u say scum

[soft raft]

He still in the top 3 lil bro lol

Crazy good since release + the second best character talking about tournament results lol

[brisk heath]

You came from the future after the patch is released?

[brisk heath]

Using season 1 stats. Bruh.

Obviously he was nuts right then.

[soft raft]

That was a little slap, nothing important

[brisk heath]

We are talking about his recent performance.

[soft raft]

It's all time stats, if you see the top 10 it's full of Broken characters and it's not weird that joker is the second one? Lol

[brisk heath]

And how this changes will really impact a little bit on him.

[soft raft]

https://x.com/DavisMVStv/status/1835896311910105280?t=N7MBEU4x3HaL3cEhz5-2Bg&s=19

Look at this and tell me he is balanced just like the characters in top 10

Idc about him on 2's if that's what you play but he haven't receive any big nerfs, he still a monster in 1's

[brisk heath]

The first thing that let me know you don't have real recent data is using at a "all time". And the second thing is that you are using a terrible tier list from less known player.

[soft raft]

? That's davis, he is well known, even more than u what are u even talking about

[brisk heath]

Did you came from the future?

After season 3?

[soft raft]

He is like the data god of mvs you can ask him about how knockback is calculated AFTER dmg and he replies

[soft raft]

Do you came from the future to say he is balanced?

[brisk heath]

Because update is no even released yet.

[soft raft]

Cuz he is NOT balanced rn

[brisk heath]

I predicted perfectly joker nerfs. I can know that his performance would be fine. Bronce players will complain less.

[brisk heath]

So you don't have self criteria and advocate to your streamer of choice for relying your own opinions on him. I see.

Well.

This conversation was.

Interesting not productive.

It is almost midnight and I have to rest.

[soft raft]

Whatever, if you want to say that say it lol

I look for the data and proof, not just yapping like u, joker downplayer

[brisk heath]

I don't even main joker but ok. Whatever. If people still have issues with him even tho I nailed in every nerf that would be healthy for him. The problem is from the players, not the character itself.

He has the longest whiff in all his abilities. Like I said.

He no longer has his "0 to death" since they removed his aerial control.

And, his frame data startup was extended in his side special.

All was correctly nailed. Except one thing I have to admit.

They still don't change him from the heavy class.

I don't know why, but I can't care less.

Is not even a problem in the first place.

Haters gonna hate.

Down players gonna down play.

[barren plover]

no nerf on the card cooldown is diabolical

[deft raft]

Nerf camp players with a 70 damage combo🗣💥💥💥

[brisk heath]

"Let's nerf something unecessary that is not even the problem in the first place."

[barren plover]

the speed in which it comes is an issue as no projectile is that fast that does that much damage

[brisk heath]

That was debated. Devs will never reduce the card speed since it would do the contrary effect in the joker.

[barren plover]

i’m talking about cooldown not the speed of the card

[brisk heath]

Yeah, that was what I meant.

Projectiles in this game never will have their speed nerf.

It will make absolutely the contrary effect to a nerf.

[barren plover]

how come

[brisk heath]

Projectiles need to disappear quickly since for various reasons. If you have a screen full of slow projectiles the zoning capabilities would increase. Joker could set up a slow card while pressuring you. That's why marving projectiles are so strong. And they nerfed their duration because the screen, overwhelming your opponent. That's why people think Tom and Jerry and Marving are exhaustive opponents. This was a discussion already clarify by devs, cards will never have speed changes.

[brisk heath]

Oh Cooldown.

[barren plover]

once again i’m talking about cooldown

there’s 3 seconds before you get a new card and the perk doesn’t make it any better

[brisk heath]

No that, that would absolutely kill the purpose of the card cycle mechanic. Cards are not even that strong, for being a mage joker just have 1 decent projectile.

[brisk heath]

I'm sure tom and Jerry has a 0 Cooldown, heavy projectiles that is faster, deals a lot of damage and builds strong setups.

[barren plover]

yeah tom and jerry is also an issue but I think joker suffers from misclassification than anything

he should’ve been an assassin

[brisk heath]

Like, I don't even know what the complaint is of his projectile. Joker problem is no that he is a strong mage. The problem is that he is miss classify. As one.

His cards are a very good tool, not a broken one and they never receive nerfs. Just buffs for this reason.

[barren plover]

i believe that card rewards jokers from running away

[brisk heath]

No since people have to learn that Joker the more plays projectiles far the player, the more will activate the "stop camping" and oh boy, joke is absolutely nothing without dodge cancel.

I don't know what you have problems, you are a main garnet. You are literally one of the best counter for him. You can even use his cards against him. No better feeling like reflecting a wild card to him.

[barren plover]

everyone believes dance is a good counter to mages until you actually use it

it has a horrible start up compared to any of the reflector moves

and that hasn’t been buffed

[brisk heath]

Well I play garnet too. It's funny to make jokers day insufferable triggering the "stop" camping

[barren plover]

#clips message

[brisk heath]

Well I see the issue, but in that case garnet should be buffed. Not jonkler nerfed.

[primal hazel]

Sucks that they nerfed joker I liked playing him

Anyone know when the maintenance will be done?

[brisk heath]

Right now

[brisk heath]

Yeah but bronze players couldn't stop complaining.

They rely their self opinions in streamers than rather on them self.

[primal hazel]

Too bad there’s so many nerds idk if he’ll be that playable anymore

Also thanks for the heads up😀

[brisk heath]

I know your pain, people instead of improving and taking accountability of their errors against a character. They blame the game instead and rely on mass opinion.

Joker was a character that was in a very good position.

But they nerfed him not because he was strong. The nerfs only pointed to be easier to be punished. Exactly as I predicted.

So people with extremely bad dodge timing and poor di skill can braindead against him.

This game balance changes just point to casual players. They should buff the under performance character instead of removing things of characters that are in the top. (Unless it is objectively broken.)

Although I like the new changes on jonkler, he will still be good in professional hands. But if bronze players go against that specific professional player. They will complain and cry about him because they are cleaning the floor with their faces and be completely stomped by a single good player.

[dense radish]

yeah truly sucks

im so sad

im prob gonna cry and wallow in my tears for the rest of the week

[brisk heath]

The rank 1 was a tom and Jerry player.

Just to know.

[brisk heath]

You don't need to be like that. People can vent their emotions and say their opinions in this channels. Just because you hate a character you don't need to lead to something personal being sarcastic. The guy was totally respectful.

I think the question should be for you since I was just objectively informing about the joker situation. No defending anyone.

I was impartial with my take.

[brisk heath]

If you where trying to be sarcastic with an over exaggerated false statement. The sarcasm lose power.

Just to say.

The worst part is that I'm not even over complimenting or praising joker. Not even defending it.

I'm being objective and impartial with the character

And yes, the rank 1 is a tom and Jerry.

Not a joker.

The joker was not even between the top 20 players last season. Only 5 players got to grandmaster with him.

Oh and additional, I hate the statements of the "Best joker player." I would never praise or defend him. He doesn't even main joker and put the whole community against him. Is like the guy that says that Jason is stupidly broken. I think it's name was veriflied.

[soft raft]

Now joker player are switching and defending PPG

[brisk heath]

Good I'm not a jonkler player. Although now I'm interested in the character.

[novel temple]

the jerker still op?

[brisk heath]

Nah, he is not the bronze monster from release. They removed his followups.

[novel temple]

hurray

[brisk heath]

Side special does not combo with anything anymore

[novel temple]

so no jab jab side special?

[brisk heath]

No

They removed his followups with every special except down air special.

[novel temple]

oh you meant air

[brisk heath]

Is the only one that can enter in a combo

[novel temple]

damn

[brisk heath]

Startup increased in 5 frames.

[sudden dagger]

yea no it’s not worth having this channel followed any more

it’s just constant arguing and fighting

[pulsar crystal]

Not wrong

A character so simple leads to not much meta game discussion

[sudden dagger]

it’s either fighting or the channel is completely dead

[pulsar crystal]

Yep

[sudden dagger]

once in a blue moon actually discussion about how to play the character

[pulsar crystal]

Discussion about the character actually happened?

I did not know this

[sudden dagger]

like 2 months ago

[pulsar crystal]

Anomaly

[sudden dagger]

only in season 1 I’m pretty sure actually

[brisk heath]

The only time joker was objectively broken.

[sudden dagger]

yea no I’m out

[main jasper]

Why so serious?

[sullen geode]

character still annoying

[brisk heath]

Every character is annoying if you don't have the patience for playing a FIGHTING game.

[brisk heath]

They should make an Injustice joker artwork icon.

[main jasper]

I'd buy that lmao

[stuck bobcat]

I didn't think he got touched much but I played a good few games with joker and got slapped around. I feel so much whiffs now and everything is punishable by what I do. What's everyone else feeling

[sullen geode]

facts

[sullen geode]

Joker is now a shadow of his former self

[brisk heath]

^

[brisk heath]

Yeah, people overkilled him.

The whiff punish where correct but removing side b follow up now is terrible.

You should'nt remove a character combo unless is a loop

Down b into side b wasn't a loop.

If the follow up works good keep it.

[pulsar crystal]

Even if y’all don’t agree hes really good, I will say he doesn’t need buffs, hes fine as is (coming from y’alls stand point)

[sullen geode]

Did they needed to nerf his up attack more…. like plenty of characters have an OP up attack

[pulsar crystal]

He feels balanced at least from fighting a mediocre Joker

[barren plover]

i feel like y’all didn’t even try to play him a little more

the up attack is still similar to what it was

“ooo man i can’t spam my up attack, he’s so bad”

a gutted character would be jake

[sullen geode]

You make bad assumptions. I use joker to the point where I actually notice every little thing… like that with a few characters sorry.

[barren plover]

dude got joker sixth sense

[sullen geode]

You don’t notice when they change characters… or do you only play one?

If everyone maybe played him and learned the match up. He’s not for me in the top 5 of hard characters to play against. Like he punishable

[barren plover]

he just has advantage states in the air and can always throw card

i barely see any jokers for the reason that no one cares for a character unless they are broken, so i can’t really learn the match up

[sullen geode]

I do beyond agree the cool down is ridiculously fast

His jab is slow on whiff so joker players don’t do it a ton they just come in with a pogo or a down special and jump all over the screen with the cards just an boaring way to play imo

[barren plover]

this one kept pogo approaching once he misses retreats and then cards

any bit of distance he air side specials

he lands the pogo he then farts and up attack and balloon

i can’t punish his card it’s too fast and comes too quick

[sullen geode]

There’s a few right now joker, PPG, Finn the can get you to the top quick AF

[dusky prairie]

Good 😋

Still needs more nerfs

[sullen geode]

So you can’t be joker either?

[dusky prairie]

Why so serious

[sullen geode]

Why you think he needs more nerfs 🧐

Joker just simply isn’t a balancing issue in this game he was keyword was

[pulsar crystal]

Just to jot this down, depending on the map Joker can still do the stupid ladder stuff

I wanted to believe they balanced him but still doesn’t feel like they did because he can do his dumb comboes and has a stupid amount of cards

[brisk heath]

They removed joker followups.

[pulsar crystal]

Seems like they work to me, my di might not be the best but still

[brisk heath]

I forgot to specify with side b

[pulsar crystal]

Not completely I don’t think

[brisk heath]

Try it

[pulsar crystal]

Not a chance

Not a Joker player, neither am I good with comboes

[brisk heath]

Oh okay, understandable.

[brisk heath]

Joker is in my opinion right now mid B

[wooden forum]

I do wish Mark Hamill would play him again or Troy Baker.

[sterile radish]

Any reason why jokers auto combo has a ridiculously negative gap after his first swing?

[broken rampart]

i think thats a little high honestly. He simply has no kill anymore unless you get a lucky baloon combo

my thought tho, i am number 5 overall with joker and I legit lose matches because its impossible to hit them and kill them. Both down air and side be being worse hurts the most. Basically no defense play anymore, so you can try to spam fart bomb but with up air changes it's not gonna do anything. I really just legit think they ruined this character

[brisk heath]

Wasn't 'fatr bomb' a granade?

[brisk heath]

Sadly no one will admit this since people just hate joker because they don't want to take accountability.

[broken rampart]

Haha I think it’s technically laughing gas or something but I like to call it fart bomb

[broken rampart]

I agree, but it’s cause of the potential of cheese. He can get a kill at 80 if he gets the balloon combo, but if not your living till like 150-160 consistently

I’m picking up Batman just cause I played him in the beta a lot and I might be a little bit of a meta hopper this patch

No?

What are you killing with them

Literally no 😭

They don’t die till like 150 now unless they are gizmo

[brisk heath]

I believe in crowbar not killing at 150 in some tanks since nerfing 100 knockback from a move it heavily implies that that ability will kill a little more late, like 15 extra percentage. By the other hand killing with balloon is weird.

[broken rampart]

Literally doesn’t with good DI

I have trust me

Also try different stages

That’s not killing on croms, Dexter’s, batcave until 130 plus

[brisk heath]

117*, I made the calcs in average maps length and also depends of the stage.

Let me try

Okay is not jab jab, is jab crowbar. It's very precise.

It's better not take the risk

So shaggy uppercut kills even early, against a Jason.

I'm testin

And

[broken rampart]

Also his jab is bad. Not as quick and unwhifable as it used to be , as well as not as big

So risk is going for jab one honestly imo

[brisk heath]

Okay I made a lot of tests and maths. Shaggy can kill Jason at 107 with a jab jab uppercut.

[broken rampart]

What

His jab is horrible

Okay maybe it’s your rank it’s performing but if I jab in diamond and master I get killed for it

It’s a horrible move

[brisk heath]

Superman jab jab kills Jason at 113

[broken rampart]

Ik I don’t

Are you an M1 joker??

[brisk heath]

Joker jab jab until kills Jason a 120

I'm making

Tests

[broken rampart]

Yea I used to when it was busted, I don’t use it except hard whiff reads and even then it still is a horrible move

You don’t even play joker and your making these claims 😭

You go to any saki stream and he says to stop using jab, it’s why you lose matchups

Dude

[brisk heath]

Morty neutral, side special up tilt kills Jason in 92

[broken rampart]

Just cause other characters have bad jabs doesn’t mean that jokers isn’t horrible to

Also Harley’s jab is good, it’s the uptilt finisher that’s now worse

And jokers is really bad to

[broken rampart]

92???

That’s insane

[brisk heath]

92, a kill confirm

[broken rampart]

Idk if they’ve changed it since i had played her last but I remember it being a decent , maybe middle of the road jab, if not slightly better

I’m not lying dude

Have you played him this patch

I legit am losing cause my opponents live past 150 consistently

Because it’s so hard for him now to get a good hit since side b and dair are worse

Dude again this comes from jab which I just said is horrible

Okay we aren’t agree his jab is horrible, however you can agree that ever top joker player says his jab is bad right?

[brisk heath]

Here are my kill confirms testing results in every character against Jason, one of the heavier characters in the game, all are true kill confirms if the first hit connects:

-Joker 120
-Superman 113
-Shaggy 107
-Black Adam 100
-Morty 92
-Bugs bunny 89
-Finn 65
-Harley Quinn 83
-Arya Stark 71

[broken rampart]

So even tho you think it’s okay, it’s not a good move per pro and top players

So don’t count jab as a consistent kill, cause again I find that move incredibly hard to actually hit what else is he killing with

[broken rampart]

Is this jab jab uptitl

Okay yea Finn at 65 is insane 😭😭😭 maybe I just spam jab against him and make it work 😭😭😭

Oh wait those are there kills not joker on them my bad mis read

[brisk heath]

Finn can get from 65 to 95 in a true combo. From there you can get the kill confirmed with the backpack. In average Finn would have between 700 1600 which just enough for killing.

Surprise, joker is no the center of the universe.

[broken rampart]

Not usually, fart bomb is much more reward for less risk. I’m telling you if you try to punish with jab it’s not gonna work out

Obviously it’s not like a 100% never use jab, for sure is jab can be used to punish

But why when I could fart bomb and try to get a better more consistent kill combo

[brisk heath]

Even for punishing is too slow and have a ton of whiff for a jab. The only reason it was used is because it's vacuum effect. Which was removed and the attack doesn't even last that long.

Ok

Banana guard 95

That's lower than joker

And his jab is better

He kills confirms better than joker with terrain bounce hitstun

[broken rampart]

That’s what I’m saying - what do I used? Cause it’s not jab cause someone like Arya or Finn is just gonna punish you instead

Yea I tried Rick, insane combo routes and I was getting sauced by them now. I used to play Morty

Yea fair bad example with those two haha, even smith punish jab insanely well

Oh it was horrible in beta; haven’t played him that much in release cause joker was my most wanted character and I just glued to him haha

[broken rampart]

Why does it say all their messages were deleted ?

[pulsar crystal]

What was the guys name?

[broken rampart]

Literally ” // “

[pulsar crystal]

Might have been an alt of a guy named Puni, dude who was trying to instigate in both PPG section and Smith section

[broken rampart]

Based and excellent use of time

[drowsy prawn]

Hey, newbie here. Does the Joker's cards cycle in a fixed order or is it random? Also how long is cooldown between card throws?

I don't quite understand the character's playstyle but it seems like he used to have a vertical combo ladder. Up air and up atk both seem pretty good. Down special seems very slow and not safe in neutral

[brisk heath]

Sure. I would help. So the cards cycle works like this:

-Diamond: Sticky slow bomb
-Heart: Boomerang
-Spears: Flurry of knifes

You can crouch for changing the order of the cards for having equiped the one that you need in the moment.

They will always appear in that order.

With the perk Joker's wild you will throw randomly. 1/10 heavy projectile. This card has the following projectiles:

-Armor break
-Aoe explosion
-9.5 Damage
-Chaser properties

Joker is a miss clases mage that doesn't have setups, and have good ladder combing. Most of his tools are useless like his Doen special in the ground or side special or neutral special. So they are no need of the character untile they are buffed

[brisk heath]

All ladder combo rely in two important things. Down neutral on the air, and down special in the airl

First you do the neutral then the special now you can follow it with any attack excepto side special.

Try it by youserlf

[drowsy prawn]

Down neutral, as in the pogo stick? It doesn't bring the joker down at all... so you have to fast fall first?

[brisk heath]

Pogo stick yes.

Fast fall or you can jab cancel, jump and do pogo.

The jab hitstun is enough time for you start the combo.

[drowsy prawn]

Regardless of the card thrown?

Also, how do you actually bank charge on the down tilt (teeth)?
Edit: nvm solved dodge will do it, though dodge rolling is better than spot dodging in place

Also, it feels like the joker suffers from blind spots in his moves, with limited ability to attack diagonally aside from the cards (limited horizontal range on up air)

[brisk heath]

I mentioned that many joker abilities are indeed and useless

There is no use for teeth unless you want to save the charge for neutral special in the air.

Most joker abilities are unpractical.

[dusky prairie]

Actual downplaying

Like really lol

U guys are just not used to your character being top 1 anymore

He still good

Still hig tier

He just doesnt have too many insane stuff anymore

[broken rampart]

Yea you haven’t played this character at all high level then

You probably just lost to one and are mad now

Jk haha i am down playing for sure but I think he’s worse in terms of fun to

Def not high tier tho

[drowsy prawn]

Can't be the best when a third of his moveset is too situational or completely useless

[brisk heath]

^

[brisk heath]

"He just doesn't have too much insane stuff anymore"

The only balance changes were giving more whiff to their abilities. That single thing talks a lot about the skill issue of many players punishing the joker. He still does the exact damage. People just want everything easier.

A patch ago before this changes people still complained a lot about him. Now joker only have more whiff and people inmediately shut their yap. Since now they doesn't need to give the small effort of actually punishing him since everything is more accesible to do it without the requiering of good timing.

That, is not healthy. It just slowly incentivate too a gameplay in which the loser is the one that approaches.

And not the one that is camping.

The funny thing is that they actually buffed crowbar. But people didn't noticed it. They just saw the word "nerf" and they thought the joker became weaker. Which is ironic since he is the exact same a patch enough, just easier for casual players that doesn't even represent anything of the so called competitive.

Jonkler

[azure axle]

What's the best joker combo that works today? Dm me please

[brisk heath]

PFG killed the only 2 joker mains.

[fair nymph]

Good

[brisk heath]

Sad

[earnest jasper]

old joker was a menace

too much of a menace

[brisk heath]

Release joker was a menace, last patch joker wasn't

The only changes where whiff punishment which talks about of the player base skill issue.

[main jasper]

Alright time to play joker

Now that no one plays him

[willow solstice]

they’re still out there terrorizing ppl. its just a few of them left

[brisk heath]

Terrorizing people?BWHAHAHAHA

No.

How hurt you have to be to still think the joker is a top tier.

[willow solstice]

no where did i say top tier and terrorizing as in the character in general not his kit but BWAHAHAHAH away sis

[brisk heath]

Sure, Sure. My bad.¯_(ツ)_/¯.

[brisk heath]

JOKER BUFFS

HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY

Darng this buff are awesome, instant cannon

Cannon can now be combo during jab

Joker mains, rise again

RISE

[elfin acorn]

nobody plays joker

one person celebrating is crazy

[balmy jolt]

womp womp

[open jasper]

I still maining joker just cuz is a fun character

[stark edge]

I wanted to wait to play Joker so I don't get called Carried

[brisk heath]

You are not carried, people is just delusional

[willow solstice]

joker and carried? if anything it took mental strength to play joker before this buff

[broken rampart]

Seeing it pretty consistent combo is nice! Kills shaggy on training room at 110, bet stages like scoobys it’ll be a nice thing to have!

[brisk heath]

Yeah, and for accumlating damage is beautiful

the burn stack is a fun mechanic

Altough i hate the balloon changes, i was okay with the knockback nerf but it lets your to vulnerable

[scenic stag]

okay so it is a change i thought i was tripping

[brisk heath]

Yeah, he can't do anything else until he drops de Balloon by itself

[scenic stag]

and it gets me caught up so much ngl i'd rather a revert at times lol

cause a knockback nerf i understand but this ehhh ion know

[brisk heath]

This was unnecessary and mostly killed the ability.

[scenic stag]

it did tbh i still use it but i avoid it if possible now

[brisk heath]

Yeah, is terrible

[brisk heath]

Dude I'm loving joker buffs

His specials are too fun

[acoustic atlas]

I get that they were trying lessen Joker's laddering ability with the balloon, but I think they should at least let you instantly interact with it if they don't want you jump/dodge canceling out it anymore. Feel seemingly punishable on hit sometimes.

[brisk heath]

So true, balloon now is probably his worst ability which is ironic

[inner wigeon]

You feel so slow and vulnerable when you pop a ballon in top screen now.. they really destroy it

If you miss the hit gg you r losing your stock

But in the other hand, flower is perfect combo starter and down special feel reeeeally consistent now

[brisk heath]

I don't feel it so consistent

[broken rampart]

The only time I’ve been using it is after a air down special hit at kill percent but it’s still risky if it misses or they di correctly

[vale tapir]

They nerfed the joker

With the reductions to The Joker’s jab focused gameplay, the playstyle became one dimensional and very defensive.These changes hope to improve his approach game, and introduce new combo routes while also reducing out some of his laddering power.

Ground Dash Attack
~ Hitpause reduced
Air/Ground Neutral Attack

• Hitbox added to The Joker’s hand while he throws a card
• Now moves The Joker forward
  NEW Neutral Attack (On Cooldown)
• The Joker can now use this attack on cooldown to swipe his hand without throwing a card
  Ground Side Attack 1
• Forward movement increased
  Ground Side Attack 2
• Forward movement increased
  ~ Knockback angle made more horizontal
  Ground Up Attack
• Forward movement increased
  – On-whiff cancel window delayed 10 frames
  Ground Down Attack
• Hitbox added to The Joker’s hand when the teeth are thrown
• Now moves The Joker forward
• Teeth projectile spawn advanced 2 frames
• Teeth projectile now better combos into subsequent hits
  Air Side Attack
• Start-up window before charge reduced 4 frames
  Grounded Side Special
  ~ Now moves The Joker backwards when rocket projectile is launched
• Knockback increased to 2150 from 1800
  Grounded Down Special
• Jack in the Box hitbox size increased
• Cannon fire start-up window reduced 12 frames
  Air Down Special
  – Start-up window increased 2 frames
  – Knockback influence multiplier increased to 1.2 from 1.0
  Air Neutral Special:
  ~ Knockback angle made more downwards
  Air Up Special:
  – Uncharged knockback reduced to 1600 from 1750
  – On-hit and On-whiff cancel windows delayed until after The Joker releases the balloon
  “Joker’s Wild” Perk
  – Card knockback scaling reduced to 19 from 21

[brisk heath]

Yeah, we all know that

[wispy fulcrum]

I was playing ranked without knowing this. The air special stuff is NASTY, so much delay.

What a bs patch for my main...

[south stream]

@brisk heath is that your in game name? Do you play ranked?

[brisk heath]

What is the need of that?

Just asking

[brisk heath]

Sorry the late response, i was in exams but yeah, there is no use of up special, is actual terrible

[wispy fulcrum]

Neither as a finisher... it's just a dead move now...

[scenic stag]

dead ain't even a word for it tbh

[willow solstice]

that name need to die

[scenic stag]

move

[wispy fulcrum]

How we can use it? Maybe in a 1 vs 1, but not in a 2 vs 2 anymore

[scenic stag]

yup jokers not worth playing for now till we get over the learning curve so hes mostly a 1s player now

[wispy fulcrum]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[scenic stag]

yeah sadly enough

[brisk heath]

People were so hurt by the joker that objectively when they went overboard with the nerf they were able to see the other side of the coin.

[willow solstice]

is that not what you’re supposed to do if any character you main have an important move nerfed?

[brisk heath]

I don't understand your premise, you support the balloon nerf or you are against it. Sorry for not understanding.

[willow solstice]

against it ofc.

[brisk heath]

Oh good so we are in the same page.

[willow solstice]

lol

[brisk heath]

I was just joking about how people wanted dead nerf joker, now that he is trash people regret that.

[willow solstice]

well i wouldn’t say he’s completely useless yet. airwalker in place until they do something with the balloon. its no time lost learning to use airwalker because once they buff him back or better you have now mastered airwalker to be in those spots that your balloon missed.

[brisk heath]

There is not enough hitstun for aiwalking joker

[south stream]

@brisk heath

Just asking, you post a bit

Wondered if I’d know the name

[brisk heath]

In reddit?

[south stream]

In here

[crude olive]

How easy is Joker to play? I got him as part of a $5 deal thing to get the battle pass but i haven’t given him much of a shot

My assumption is that he’s been nerfed in some way since last season or patch

[brisk heath]

He is not that easy as people thinks, there a many properties in his abilities. Making combos with him is plain muscular memory

[scenic stag]

hes fun but dont expect much unless your willing to learn him like T-TsukiKnight said hes not that easy but he aint hard either just weird with his new nerf/buff

[brisk heath]

This is correct.

And he is fun too

[viral saffron]

Oh he has a new taunt now?

Shouldn't this taunt have been added like 5 months ago

Alongside the Harleen Quinzel skin lol

[barren plover]

what’s the taunt?

[viral saffron]

I think it's called Playing the Fool

[devout fiber]

I'm the Joker babyyyy

[brisk heath]

Joker need buffs

Ngl

[willow solstice]

no you just need to play him better

[brisk heath]

What does that have to do with what I said?

[willow solstice]

joker is fine. mans definitely doesn’t need any buffs he struggles against like the least amount of characters

if its his balloon that youre calling for then its understandable but nothing else is needed fr. mans is still a character that deserves his respect.

[brisk heath]

He for sure still need some small tweaks like making his Jackbox reliable or his balloon good again thats all, just because a character is "doing fine" doesn't means they cant receive some changes every full moon

[willow solstice]

so its the balloon you want. understandable since it was his movement. the jackbox is reliable its something to be timed. it seems as if youre calling for it to be faster which would ultimately just break joker considering how far back it pushes. do you use his rocket/fart?

i think anything more than what you’re requesting will bring meta hoppers to joker and atp its just a bunch of idiots running around with a crowbar to death

[brisk heath]

Your a overextending a simple statement, joker just needs some tweaks, I'm not saying "buff his entire kit".

That's that and this is this dude.

Balloon sucks, and Jackbox doesn't have a place in his kit, that's all.

[willow solstice]

balloon is cheeks rn agreed but jack can fit depending on how you play him. truly theres some space where it can be added

[brisk heath]

Are your seriously glazing the objectively worst ability in the game?

Let me guess, you think is a reliable and consistent kill confirm?

[willow solstice]

huh? i just casually stated it can still fit alongside agreeing that balloon needs to be brought back and you consider it glazing?

[brisk heath]

Jackbox

[willow solstice]

why does everyone in this server think like a kid💀💀

[brisk heath]

Im talking about jackbox

[willow solstice]

so its glazing to say the move is decent?💀

this is clearly about to start an argument so we can end it here. mfs cannot comprehend a casual convo bruh

[brisk heath]

Let me ask you some questions before hand.

Jackbox is consistent enough for being used on stacking damage for how slow and predictable it is so is worth use over other abilities?

Jackbox startup speed make it; can be used before/after hitstun as a followup?

Jackbox is a good kill confirm for using it over any other high knockback ability joker has?

And most important, can jackbox be used after a jab? The most important tool of joker for combo starting?

If the answer to every question is no, the output statement is: Yes, it could have some tweaks for making reliable and not powecreeped by the rest of his kit.

[willow solstice]

Why are you using it in a sense for you to get caught tho ? Like yeah the startup is slow but ofc you gonna get hit we can see you clearly wanna use it? You’re calling it useless/ out of place when you’re using it in the most obvious moment

[brisk heath]

No, i dont see any situation where jackbox can be used over any other good attack in joker kit

[willow solstice]

and to use jack over canon is actually insane. just because you personally don’t use it doesn’t mean its out of place to others again its just a timed matter of using it. jokers kit is dam near all about timing unless its a move that involves his crowbar. you cannot rush into ppl with joker unless you legitimately have a combo even then he has one that forces tech

[willow solstice]

again, its YOUR play style. it doesnt make you trash and it doesn’t make the move useless it just doesn’t fit you

[brisk heath]

No, up tilt power creep jackbox, simple as that, there is no use of using jackbox over an ability work exactly the same is 100% better.

[earnest jasper]

jokers fine rn

[willow solstice]

jackbox isn’t a move to be used frequently , its moreso of a panic button to get someone off of you. why are you trying to implement something that doesn’t fit you personally?

again, you may be one of the best mf jokers around here and cant use jackbox for the life of you but someone else may genuinely find it helpful or hell they may even know some wonky ass way to use it.

[willow solstice]

move tin can😭

[brisk heath]

My panic button would be simple dodge or use neutraul special or uptil, which are objectively better options, jackbox hitbox doesnt even covers your body, simple as that

[willow solstice]

again, thats.your.play.style

i cannot stress it enough

as aggressive as joker can be jackbox is useful for someone but you so yeah its simple as that

[brisk heath]

Simple as that? Okay lets say my playstyle is spamming side special with shaggy, would be reliable in higher skill matches?

[scenic stag]

Can I ask you a question what would you replace the jackbox with?

@brisk heath

[willow solstice]

bruh theres no correlation in shaggy and joker lmao. you cannot call for a move to be replaced because you dont use it which further more makes me ask why is it such a problem to you if you dont even use it/like it

[willow solstice]

^

ive never seen a joker complain about it so im curious as hell atp

[earnest jasper]

hes still low A tier rn

you just gotta play campy asf

[willow solstice]

MOVE

im bout to kick you back in the cabinet

[earnest jasper]

i used to play joker bruh

😭

when he was top 1 ofc

:3

[scenic stag]

not really you can be as aggressive as you want now 😂 (just don’t use balloon)

[willow solstice]

not even. legend made joker a beast rn

[brisk heath]

Jackbox can be unique in its own way without being power creeped by better attack options, joker is a mage, but he is more a bruiser than a mage, jackbox would work incredible good as a setup trap instead of inmediate use.

Same as meeseeks, jackbox could be placed in the floor as a trap and will only activate when dectecting a player in hitstun, obviously this version will have cooldown, WAY less damage and knockback, but it would be a cool setup trap for overextending combo

[willow solstice]

aggressive as hell

[earnest jasper]

optimally

i mean

[willow solstice]

mmcht SWEAT

[brisk heath]

The reason why many abilities are powercreeped is because work exactly the same as other abilities in the kit, jackbox in this situation is a way more worse version of up tilt

[earnest jasper]

i still remember the air walker stuff

[willow solstice]

its making its way back 🫣

[scenic stag]

just lettin ya know airwalker joker is back

[willow solstice]

i can agree with you as making jack a trap. it’ll ultimately become more useful at that point.

[brisk heath]

Yeah, thank you. . .

But still I can keep understanding why you are trying to defend Jackbox, objectively no matter your playstyle is an ability that is not even situation, but it shouldnt be used in any situation.

Is a far worse up tilt:

Up Tilt:
-11 Damage
-More Knockback
-Bigger hitbox
-Covers all your body
-Has less endlag and faster startup
-Is a follow-up
-A very good kill confirm

Jackbox:
-4.5 damage
-Less Knockback
-Smaller hitbox
-Doesn't covers anything of your body
-Has a slow startup and a stupid amount of endlag
-Isn't a follow-up
-It sucks at a kill confirm and isn't consistent.

Yeah everyone has a playstyle, but your personal playstyle doesn't always mean is the correct one.

If you like to spam and it somehow works. Good, but after that good players will absolutely demolish you for taking the risk.

[willow solstice]

demolish? the move isn’t something you get stuck in for days. granted you can’t escape it as fast but the statement you’ve given just now kinda seems like a scenario where you’d be using it if someone was running towards you instead of above you which we both know isn’t the proper way to use it. it wont cost you much of a risk though imo at the point of you missing it , it falls into the play of “what’s my backup move if this misses and this person is near me”

[scenic stag]

I can see where you’re coming from but jackbox is just as fast as the cannons from since the buff they gave him so while it might not be the most optimal move to use it isn’t a unreliable move that you’re perceiving it to be it’s just a matter of do you know how or when to use that said move, so in this case play style does play a part. I think personally joker is fine now all he really needs is a balloon change with an added nerf with how strong his crowbar is.

[brisk heath]

Jackbox isn't fast as the cannon, they only buffed cannon, not jackbox

Jackbox is the same since release

[brisk heath]

No dude, using Jackbox in that hypothetical situation is just a death sentence, they are a lot of better tools in that moment than taking the risk of that, you will just be hard punish.

Something simple as just jumping is a way more better option that doing that

[brisk heath]

Well they increased it's hitbox a 5% but is like. . . A bandaid in a internal bleeding

[scenic stag]

interesting cause I don’t notice the difference between them since I use both the same amount for combos

[brisk heath]

Jackbox doesn't follow up with jab, you can try it by yourself in training mode.

Cannon follows with jab.

[scenic stag]

I have that’s why I said it works for me I don’t notice the difference since I use both in combos

[brisk heath]

Jackbox doesn't have a true combo.

If you meant prediction combo why don't use up tilt? Is the exact same but busted.

[celest needle]

Is there any good way to approach as joker or do you have to wait for them to come to you?

[brisk heath]

Card

[drowsy prawn]

How long is card cool down? I never really know and since it's a useless input on cool down I hesitate to use it.

(I really wish frame data was made available for characters and moves)

[scenic stag]

tbh just go into training throw a card and see how long it takes to come back also it’s not useless 😅 it just depends on how you use them, I use them a lot for snipping people out of the air after smacking them out of the map pre firing my card

[brisk heath]

5 seconds

[brisk heath]

Joker buffs

Nice

Now he is a hot wheels car.

[stark edge]

Huh?

I don't get that

Is it cause he's faster?

[brisk heath]

Yes

[brisk heath]

Joker dead.

[neon nova]

joker mains i need your advice
this joker keeps spitting purple water at me over and over again what am i supposed to do

[ripe juniper]

Ha ha, get squirted bozo

(idk, dodge and punish...?)

[steep storm]

Are you fr?

Outta curiousity btw

[brisk heath]

He died many times in comics and animation, I'm sure he definitely is dead this time.

Nah, he is doing fine.

[steep storm]

[brisk heath]

Just he is not the monster other characters are being right now.

He is Mid, neither good neither bad.

[steep storm]

I haven't played since s1 so i wouldn't know

[steep storm]

That's good to know

[brisk heath]

Oh you didn't? Well, at one point joker was no broken, but good, people kept complaining and were too hurt for the first impression even tho joker couldn't do anything extremely strong.

They nerfed again him without buffing the weakest aspects, but they noticed how stupid that was and the next patch the buffed everything that is bad with the character.

[steep storm]

Well hopefully joker's out of the complainer's sights now

[viral saffron]

Is the Joker Jig taunt intended to be the stair dance

[brisk heath]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[brisk heath]

He is out of sight, a little bit,. . . Unluckily

When joker was nerfed people that lose against him keep using he being "broken" as an excuse, they heard once that joker is "broken" or "top tier" and every match they lose against a good player they camed to complain.

Don't get me wrong, he was strong on some aspects like any other character, WW, Batman, Steven. But people got all their hate specifically on him.

[dusky prairie]

Hes on the top 10

Hes deff more good than bad

[brisk heath]

Season 2 calls, they want their opinion back.

[dusky prairie]

Man look

I know u really like to downplay Joker and stufd

But this is not only my opinion

Its from people on the pro mvs discord

So idk

[brisk heath]

I think is collectives hysteria opinion, joker isnt an actual monster compared to other characters that were over buffed this patch. He is strong? Sure, he is a good character. But we should point the elephant in the room right now.

[dusky prairie]

I agree

Balancing rn is pretty bad

A lot of character are away too strong

Like Agent Smith

Who's jab has no whiff, insane range and leads to 30 dmg combos

[brisk heath]

Totally agreed, Agent Smith wasn't the monster he is right now on release, people never overlook on him at start, so not one cares about him right now demolishing people in meta.

[willow solstice]

He’s definitely top 10. Even without his bug he’s up there

[barren plover]

is there a joker bug?

[willow solstice]

yup

[barren plover]

what how

[willow solstice]

haha meter doesnt drain when he uses teeth

[barren plover]

whaa

[brisk heath]

No he isn't, he is between top 11 and 20 but not the Top 10.

We have smith, ww, jake, arya, gizmo and many others that are above him

[scenic stag]

jake better then joker?

have we lost it???

[willow solstice]

its crack

[willow solstice]

who else above joker???

[brisk heath]

Yes, Jake right is busted, he is considered to be banned from tournaments. Specifically more from doubles but not far away of singles.

[brisk heath]

Powerpuff, Stripe, Bugs, Harley, Batsy, Steven

How hilarious that Jake one of the worst character since season 1 is tempted to ban list.

[scenic stag]

we can say 2 moves of his are what makes him good but that doesn’t mean he’s better then joker all around

and it’s just 2 spam able moves that do a lot of knock back

[brisk heath]

That's double standards, joker was criticized by just two to three moves that made him busted. The rest was trash on its time, in this case Jake is not just about "two simple moves" he objectively is crushing players.

And is not me, are the proper tournaments that are triggering to ban him, joker was never even tempted to be in the ban list like shaggy or iron giant.

[scenic stag]

cause people play him on ledge with no skill involved spamming flower so ofc no one cares for joker until they lose Ina tournament. That guy fallzei is the main example of a who plays him on ledge and tell others that’s how he is supposed to be played optimally if you don’t your wrong like ofc people see us as nothing more, people will play other characters with disadvantages in a better manner then most jokers ever be willing to do

[brisk heath]

What says that same statement can't be used on Jake? Many players are having a hard time fighting him, he is game breaking in tournaments, and is in the ban list. Of course he is above the joker right now.

Joker is just a mid character right, he isn't between top 10 but he absolutely has a respected place between 11 and 15.

There are better options.

[barren plover]

this happened this patch?

[barren plover]

what tournaments have banned jake?

[brisk heath]

It happened this one with new met changes

[brisk heath]

Right now, as I know most tournaments that have doubles format.

[barren plover]

i guess i have to find the tournaments myself

[open jasper]

they keep nerfing joker?

[brisk heath]

Nope, he is receiving buffs. He is right now a standard character and is receiving small tweaks here and there.

[open jasper]

nice

[ripe juniper]

What's the BnB combo for Joker these days?

[brisk heath]

They removed his combo options and limited them, it's the same as always combo but worst.

[ripe juniper]

A killer joke then

[dusky prairie]

Why do u guys keep beliving Tsuki their oppinions are biased

[willow solstice]

i dont think no joker believes tsuki 😭 just wanted to see their opinion

[narrow latch]

The only ones who do are the ones losing with him

[brisk heath]

I just told my information based on tournament performance, just because a character have low win rate doesn't means is bad, it also can mean that is so good that many players use it and that's why it's win rate can get very low.

Characters like Velma, reindog or lebron James have higher win rate than top tier is because no one use them, and the few that use them are very good.

Agent Smith has the lowest win rate, you can see where this is going.

[wild mulch]

???

🫥

[brisk heath]

Agent Smith has low win rate because he is so broken that everyone is using him, have you read anything of what I said?

[wild mulch]

eh

[viral saffron]

LOL jake

Jake.

J A K E

[serene cypress]

Jake?

For bans?

[viral saffron]

You are ingesting Joker's poisonous gas if you think Jake is worthy of a ban hahahaha

[calm blade]

guys does anybody have any good combos to learn with joker

i just picked him up and idk it feels like i dont have a lotta combos to work with

does anybody have tips to use him

[charred mortar]

If you hold down you can cycle through your cards.

[brisk bronze]

is Joker best to play with d pad for IAD combos?

[scenic stag]

it’s all personal preference tbh

[celest needle]

Jab, jab, down tilt, uptilt seems to work for me but I haven't tested if it's true yet

It works super well if you have a full ha ha meter too

[brisk bronze]

Jab,pogo down air special to up air works too

[brisk bronze]

Does Joker have any air walker combos or set ups?

[broken rampart]

Have a question for yall, is short hop or iad flower more optimal after jab?? been having more success with short hop, you can jab quicker out of it if you fast fall

[narrow latch]

@sullen geode Do you have a life?

[cinder star]

Anyone know if it’s possible to combo dair special into sair special?

[brisk heath]

he was forbidden from doubles meanwhile they look out for his performance, he is not a d tier when we talk about doubles

[viral saffron]

I have to see his performance in doubles with my own eyes to believe that nonsense

Considering all I see is miserable gameplay when I see him being played

[brisk heath]

Because people want you look jake as a bad character, is collective hysteria. We are not longer in season 1, jake even recently won frostiversus alongside raven.

[viral saffron]

lies

[brisk heath]

I'm not lying, check the tournament result by yourself

[ripe juniper]

Jake can never be top tier, he's rubber!

[brisk heath]

My bad, you are right

[brisk bronze]

How's the Finn vs Joker MU, I have trouble approaching with his indefinite sword charging

[crimson marten]

I only just started playing him again since S1 but what i have found that works good on most characteres are... *Jab- dair- air down special- Sair/Up air (This is good low-to mid%) *Jab- Jab- Dash Canceled neutral Special (hand shake) works all precents and can kill *Jab- Jab- Dash cancelled dtilt- Uptilt/ Up Air (Up air better mid-high% *Jab- jab- down special- down special (cannon) is also true now apparently.

[crimson marten]

Difficult... Watch out bc he can low profile our jab if he's very close and then whiff punish you (it sucks). Best thing is work on your movement and keep him guessing what you are going to do. If you try to do typical footsies with him, neutral is in his favor (imo). Don't over commit your combos/ strings he can reverse you pretty easy. So use hit and run tactics. Learn his threat range and stay outside of it. I think he will be easier to manage when/if we get shields.

[serene cypress]

man Joker jab 1 is so sad

Never seen a move whiff point blank before but there it is

[crimson marten]

Yup, sure feels bad, like you have the upper hand and then whiff and are smacked.

[serene cypress]

It has to be studied how bad it is

Like.

Its literally nonfunctional

You just can't hit a character like Finn on what should be very easy out of shield punish

but it can't hit

How do they make a jab that bad on purpose?

[little acorn]

Probably because of Joker's insane jab combos when he first launched, which scared PFG into making it terrible

Smith's jab has also been phasing through people since it got nerfed

[brisk bronze]

Yep

[serene cypress]

Joker has very fun IAD combos when you can hit jab

[serene cypress]

Begging. He just needs hitbox adjustments to be consistent, so he isn't getting both low profiled and high profiled

Simple as

[violet sonnet]

laughing death is so peak

[crimson marten]

I just wish the game starting animation was a bit more interesting. Its just him posing for praises and it loops too quickly. Otherwise it is a very cool skin

[chrome halo]

Whats the shield breaker for joker?

[little acorn]

Jab 3 crowbar

[willow jacinth]

This is still the best character ngl

[broken rampart]

no

[hushed pasture]

This character is so ass against meta

[broken rampart]

Sooooo does this character have any combos anymore??

[broken rampart]

Not really seeing anyone in this chat, not a suprise since joker is kinda bad. But if your looking for combos, jab jab down air (most characters you need to dodge down air) is true. At higher can combo (not true but can't dodge) into fart bomb balloon / up air. Seems to be more consistent to follow up then jab jab down tilt however if you start with flower you can down tilt to not force tech or dair to force tech and try and read. Not really seeing any other combos

[brisk bronze]

Does anyone still play Joker?

[heavy nymph]

😔

[broken rampart]

no XD

[brisk bronze]

just me then:(

[broken rampart]

i mean i am, trying to learn combos but lowkey, this character is soooo bad now

[willow jacinth]

Joker got nerfed so hard even batman laughs at that joke

Joker? More like Joke