Joker

[brisk heath]

At this point I wish he could talk about joker

[paper topaz]

Im happy my main got a fair share of nerfs 😅

That animation/hitbox was really something that needed to be changed, props to developers 🙌

[eager fossil]

Exactly.

[quiet flicker]

you want a legit reason to hate joker? the completely random pure chance super fast homing projectile that kills people super early so you die because of luck 🤷

[brisk heath]

1. All characters have at least a super fast move that kills you a low percentage, and doesn't needs rng.

2. It doesn't kill that early. It needs at least 80 HP even for Tom and Jerry.

3. By any chance did you played tom and Jerry recently?

Because is just won against one using that card move.

[brazen stone]

is it truly random with percentage chances or it has some guarantee system behind it, does anyone know?

[brisk heath]

It has a 10% chance. Meaning it comes each 1 of 10 cards.

[brazen stone]

i think that's not how chances works

i mean like in a real match

[brisk heath]

It. . . Actually works that way. . . Is teoritical math.

[quiet flicker]

all characters have a super fast kill move,none of them are really fast homing projectiles that make you die because of luck ^^

oh you lost a stock sorry bro the joker got lucky yikes

[brisk heath]

Sorry that the mage character has a win condition in a projectile.

[quiet flicker]

yeah sorry you actually need to die because you were unlucky 🤓

make it not homing than

make it take skill perhaps 🤷

[brisk heath]

Is already skill based when you are in a real match, you have to make a prediction. This game is about prediction.

[brazen stone]

there's a chance you won't get it on 11th card if you're unlucky.
the 10 percent chance rolls each card throw
unless there's a guarantee syslem it's not always atleast 1 in every 10 card

[quiet flicker]

bro your just saying that because your biased lmao you seem to really hate tj a lot,imagine if tj could just kill you at any moment by the press of a button if you were above 80%

yeah what a fair and fun wincon

[brisk heath]

You know what is odds theory right? Doesn't have to be take seriously.

I just said that it was a 1 in 10 chance, doesn't mean. It has to be exactly 1 each 10.

That just theory. In practice you probably will get 2 wild card in the first 10, but not wildcard in the next 10.

That's how odds work.

[brazen stone]

my previous question was is there a guarantee system. you saying "it comes each 1 of 10 cards" makes me thinks you mean that

[brisk heath]

Sorry for the confusion but not. The only thing you can do is that each 3 rounds of the 3 cards you can predict and wish the 10 one is a wild card.

[brazen stone]

by guarantee system i mean like GnW Judge in smash melee/ult

[brisk heath]

The odds are increased each time a wild card doesn't appear.

[brazen stone]

oh wait, each card, right? not each card throw? since it has 3 card throw variant and the last one has 3 cards being thrown or something?

[brisk heath]

I don't hate tom and Jerry, I just said I won against one recently with a wild card and my expectations was you probably came to complain to this channel about that. It was a assumption.

[brisk heath]

Tom and Jerry can do literally that with the same odds like joker. I'm sure you will find perfect situations where TnJ can kill you with his fishrod, with a pan spike or with both tash caps into the top of the blast zone.

Even more with the new wall fatigue

And even at lower percentages.

Just try to expect always a wildcard and stay from edges

[quiet flicker]

im not saying tj is balanced i hate that guy but more than one op character can exist yknow 🤷

idec about anything else joker has all that is fine bro why make the early kill tool homing fast projectile luck based 😭

[brisk heath]

This game have always luck based situation even tho the character doesn't have visualized odd numbers like a percentage. There will always be situations where luck will be applied over than skill.

And that is not something bad.

That makes matches interesting.

[quiet flicker]

having luck based stuff is fine Only in moderation, luck should never go as far as to determine something as important as a whole stock

[brisk heath]

Like I'm sure many bugs bunny got very lucky with a perfect rocket coming from the sky into a spike or stripes dynamite detonating in the perfect frame in the middle of s combo.

[brisk heath]

Welcome to multiversus.

[brisk heath]

Well I'm sure matchmaking is not something you are interested. Why my match has to be determined because my mm Is to high and for pure bad luck I have to play with a 10 top player which I'm not completely prepared and is using a character that perfectly counters mine.

Game changing Luck is instantly applied even without the match starting.

This game have odds everywhere. You like it or not. Not because of an exact number, but because of the many possible scenarios which you can have advantage or not. That's how games work.

[quiet flicker]

i mean yeah,every character experiances luck in matchmaking,im talking joker gameplay. you win a stock because of luck and nothing else. no matter how thats spun that is a bad thing. just because matchmaking is bad or some character has something they can do if they are lucky doesnt make it okay. its never fun to loose because your opponent got lucky and never satisfying to win because of a random luck,so its an objectively bad thing that should be changed. atleast with the other examples you have like ''stipe dynamite'' and ''perfect rocket'' you have to actually time things like timing the dynamite or timing and making sure you can get your opponent below the rocket. on joker you litteraly just touch a button and get a ringout. idk how thats ever ok.

[brisk heath]

That's contradictory since is simple to always expecta a wild card, you will never played near top of the blast zone against a joker. That just foolish.

[paper topaz]

W joker nerf

I’m so happy my main got nerfed now nobody has to complain about us being meta 😅

[fierce portal]

Swimming in the barely any nerfs

[paper topaz]

Joker hitbox nerf 😔

[fierce portal]

Boowomp

[paper topaz]

Well technically it should be a bugfix

I think joker is now balanced

[fierce portal]

Yeah and still

Ridiculous

[brazen stone]

joker voice missing on my side. the voice doesn't come out unless he wins

[solar geyser]

I'm glad joker didn't get gutted

[waxen mauve]

Yall still meta

[final eagle]

I finally got the Batman that laughs

[mental kernel]

Do you guys also confuse the prestige joker skin and SJ's battle pass skin in game? i cant be the only one. they are both a dark blur, that looks nothing like the OG

[brisk heath]

Remember joker is a heavy character, joker is a heavy character, joker is a heavy character, joker is a heavy character. This is so cool and I love it.

[dusky prairie]

How was joker not nerfed last patch thats crazy

His jab didnt change at all

[dusky prairie]

Delet this message

He has insane combo game

Insane projectiles

Great aproach tools

Great dmg build up

[broken rampart]

Wasn’t it literally nerfed to be smaller? It also on a previous patch was nerfed to have more whiff lag and start up

[charred tiger]

I thought this character would be meta this patch so I'm trying him because I'm desperate for Masters butttt... Neutral feels terrible. Sure you can kill with balloon at 40 and the down special combo is easy, but he feels worse than a lot of the gimmick chars in masters rn like Steven

[dusky prairie]

Bro dont lie to urself

It might be skill issue

Joker still busted

[dusky prairie]

Still the best in the game lol?

[charred tiger]

I don't even think he could be top 5

[fierce portal]

Lol

[dusky prairie]

Thats just downplaying

[charred tiger]

Maybe Steven is just a bad matchup? 😂

[dusky prairie]

I think so

[charred tiger]

I'm getting better but it still was faster to get out of bronze with Rick than joker lol

[dull trout]

I hate this character so much

Oh my god

He has a insane projectile, insane ladder combos, a easy anti air that's literally impossible to counter

He has everything

How was he not nerfed

[broken rampart]

he's literally been nerfed every single patch, and every mechanic change in the game has been trageted to nerf him

[eager fossil]

Why die from luck when you can die from the Jokah Baby

[waxen mauve]

is there anyone here who would use anything besides the "jab+jab+ down+down special+up" combo?

yup, as i thought

[dense radish]

Lmfao

U guys are so lucky

Its actually laughable that they didn't touch this character

If u main joker ur my opp

Which is ironic since I was one of the first ppl to ask for Joker in mvs

But hes so strong

I cant handle it

[solar geyser]

I main everyone

🗿

[solar geyser]

His jab got nerfed by the way

The hitbox is noticeably smaller

[dense radish]

Yeah so he got tickled

Barely a nerf

[solar geyser]

its one of his strongest moves

[dense radish]

Clearly still top tier

[solar geyser]

oh yeah of course

[dense radish]

This stupid combo bro

This

[waxen mauve]

everytime

like theres nothing else joker players do

only this combo

just nerf the down special and we re all good

[dusky prairie]

Oh no poor Joker

He doesnt have a 80 dmg combo anymore

Only 50 dmg true combo

And a 0 to death

🥺🥺

Ohh no poor joker

Pls buff him

[quiet flicker]

i wish they actually nerfed joker and made his ground downb do something lmao

his entire kit is so good except that one attack that does nothing

[sullen geode]

Alot of the people that complain about joker can’t use him to the extent that they are complaining about.

[half gyro]

That means nothing

[quiet flicker]

as someone with the ''played joker'' stamp of approval i am here to say that joker is overpowered

[sullen geode]

I play everyone and I feel joker is not the best in game. You can get away with being ok with some characters you go in with joker just throwing cards and your SS your not getting far

[quiet flicker]

not joker having a 10% chance to win a stock when the enemy is aboe 70-80 damage

[sullen geode]

So the perk that’s what makes him unfair to play….?? He is a stronger character in the game. But if you don’t know what your doing with him you get punished and usually loose

I’m just struck like his speeds been decreased 3 times on his ground combo, they took 10% of his dodge distance, his poke everyone complains about now is even mooore punishable. Imo people won’t be happy till he’s F tier

[quiet flicker]

if you dont know how to play him you loose buddy you have a 10% chance to throw out a ''stock win'' card wdym 😭

[sullen geode]

One I’m not your buddy. And I do not talk to people that talk down to people. Please keep your narrow mind away from mine.

[quiet flicker]

bro is a true intellectual fr we are talking about video game balancing ease up lmao

[sullen geode]

I just really really really don’t understand. I didn’t play the beta. I’m honestly biased and really everyone seems to hate me as soon as they find out I play Joker.

[quiet flicker]

people who make fun of players of certain characters are mostly joking your good,its just frustrations about a character being unbalanced

[sullen geode]

I really have bounced around and tried other characters and after playing them I go back to joker and it’s actually hard to use him like I’ve literally lost my identity in the game at the moment. I’m sorry for getting rude

[fierce portal]

Isnt the joker channel a weird place to be talking about superman

[sullen geode]

Nah it’s me my bad attitude killed the thread 😞

[stray notch]

Still S tier

[stray notch]

Best character in the game even?

[dusky prairie]

Yes he actually is

The best in the game rn

[brisk heath]

People are so blind hatred against Joker that still thinks he is top 1.

At most he is between top 10. But top 1?

That shall be a joke.

There are only 5 jokers between the top 100.

Shaggy, Arya, Iron Giant, Finn and black Adam are more consistent in between the top players.

Even more than joker.

[brisk heath]

No.

That shall be the ones I mentioned early.

[stray notch]

Joker is top 2 and he’s not 2

[quiet flicker]

nah joker is actually crazy tought,not even the combos no other character can just play the worse they can and win because of a 10% chance

[brisk heath]

Nope, sorry to make you delusional but actually the top 5 characters right now are in this order. Arya, Gizmo, IG, Shaggy and Taz.

[quiet flicker]

ig and taz on top 5 is crazy lol

[brisk heath]

Believe or not, there are more Taz and IG in top 100 than jokers.

[quiet flicker]

ranked doesnt actually mean anything though,you loose at most 10 rp and gain 20 for each match till atleast diamond,i grinded my main to plat 1 in like a day than stopped playing ranked cuz i dont like best of 3 lol

what actually matters is competitive tourneys and such but even than thats still meh

[brisk heath]

That is kinda contradictory since that also applies in tournament like you say. And there are more shaggy, and we know that shaggy is better than joker in everything rather than projectiles.

[dull tendon]

i notice there's no compendium pinned of jokers best combos. why is that?

[brisk heath]

And worst part is that joker is not even in the top 5, black Adam and finn are still pretty strong.

I will declare something in this channel. People just blindly hate the joker because he was broken once, and still want to complain because they lose against him.

[sullen geode]

^🙏

[quiet flicker]

i mean he never got nerfed though lol

[brisk heath]

You are joking right? Because that is the funniest thing I heard all day.

[quiet flicker]

they didnt nerf anything that actually impacted gameplay

[brisk heath]

Exactly, because it is not needed. Tell me for once, that is objectively above the character standard to be cosnsidered strong?

That isn't the wild card, I understand that's your only argument which is just never expect the rng to fail.

[quiet flicker]

the 40 dmg combo off the extremely safe and disjointed jab than is a kill comfirm on 80+ dmg and can easily turn into a 0td with like one dodge read

for one ^

theres also talks of a true 0td on joker but i never actually seen it in game so 🤷

[fierce portal]

For joker*

[quiet flicker]

🤓

[fierce portal]

Nah dont even bother with this lil fella

[brisk heath]

1. Joker doesn't have a combo that deals more than 40%. No longer at least since the auto tech is applied.
   And omg, how horrible a character have the capability of combing you in a FIGHTING GAME.

2. Joker not longer has a 0 to death. Your 0 DI practice and dodge timing shouldn't be a reason for a character to be nerfed. In that case every character should be nerfed. You are just living regretful to the past in previous patches.

3. First of all, joker jab doesn't kill at 80+ that's a total lie. But you forget characters that have jabs that kill confirme at 40, or even Lower. But you are pointing the only character that causes problems because you don't have the enough aptitude to actually get better.

[fierce portal]

He still can do more than 40

[quiet flicker]

wdym joker doesnt have a 40 dmg combo you can go in training and do it rn 😭

[fierce portal]

But its like

DI mix

Its whatever

People HATE the idea of DI mixups apparently

[quiet flicker]

its true on both dı away and in,jab jab dodge dair downb uair

[brisk heath]

Ok, show me a video, I want to see. Also applies the "Dodge after hitstun" or I will not believe you.

[quiet flicker]

bet,gime a few im playing something else rn lmao

[fierce portal]

Thats not even the full string!!!!

[brisk heath]

Pok pok pok pok.

Pok

[fierce portal]

Oh my lord!!!!

[quiet flicker]

😭 enlighten me

[fierce portal]

You can get a 50/50 off down b

DI out = side b

If they DI in off side b

You get up air, that will usually kill off the top and its all the other guys fault

DI in = up b shenanigans

Thats like, 50+ damage and it kills pretty early

Up air is the lazy option!!!

And its a mixup

You dont wanna DI in but occasionally its the right option to do so because they expect you to DI out

[brisk heath]

You can combo with a card and apply flammable doc.

With the heart card.

[fierce portal]

And if they catch you with it, you got called out

Its whatever, it happens

[brisk heath]

That makes over 40+ but in a real match scenario is not completely true if enemy DI correctly.

[fierce portal]

Black adam can literally kill you at like 20 off 2 very low risk reads

[brisk heath]

Yeah.

[fierce portal]

Im not even a downplayer!!!

Hes like, in line with all the other strong characters

And that will always be the case hes just a fundamentally strong character

I dont get caught out by a joker unless theyre simply a stronger player

[brisk heath]

Okay so Joker. Full combo with a jab have startup can deal truly 39 damage. 42 with snowball effect. 47 with flammable doc. But the full setup takes a heart attack between the damage. Which is considered a mild setup, and a setup of that class can't be considered completely true in a real match.

If we don't consider DI and actually the enemy skill of course.

So with a DI bot in the hardest difficulty, the REAL, max damage joker can do from a jab is 28 damage.

Cool that means that the joker's true combo potential is the average between all characters.

[fierce portal]

Its like 38 damage with the normal DI

[brisk heath]

39* The build is Wild Card, That's flammable doc, last stand and pugilist.

[quiet flicker]

posted on combos

[brisk heath]

That's the standardized joker build.

[fierce portal]

This isnt off a card starter

[brisk heath]

Dude that's handicapped. That's not a 0 to death like you say, and is not applied to a real match, you opponent has to be 'really' bad to die to a combo like that.

[quiet flicker]

bro wdym its a true combo both DI and out 😭 its not a 0td its a 10td 😭

[fierce portal]

Thats not DI out is it

[sullen geode]

It’s hopeless with him he’ll always hate joker

[fierce portal]

Thats barely out

[quiet flicker]

it is,look at the first frame on taz clip

[sullen geode]

And honestly, to say the nerfs did nothing really does show me how small your thought processes about all this

[fierce portal]

No i think i'll be looking at the clip mate

It is flat out read based

[quiet flicker]

ok lmao ill make another one showing extensively the dodge away

[fierce portal]

Its bayo

I do not care

[quiet flicker]

💀 what

[fierce portal]

I think i have invested enough time to know what is and is not the case

[quiet flicker]

''x thing doesnt happen'' ''i have video proof of it happening'' ''İ do not care''

actual smartest joker main

[fierce portal]

Ergo

Genuinely dont bother

[quiet flicker]

yeah than you do agree that is stupid and op

[fierce portal]

Then*

Joker is*

[quiet flicker]

erm! actually that is a gramatically correct sentence even though i didnt say ''Joker is''

[fierce portal]

Your argument is joker is broken

Top 1 in all platform fighter

This is about joker

[brisk heath]

^

[quiet flicker]

nope i was talking about the combo when i said ''That is'' you gota work on your nerd game

[fierce portal]

You gotta start working on yours 😭

[quiet flicker]

like your at the right place with the nerd stuff you just read that incorrectly im sure youll get it next time

[fierce portal]

Maybe at a spelling bee

You're*

[quiet flicker]

yeah nvm your clearly better

[fierce portal]

Damn not you too

[sullen geode]

F I give up

[fierce portal]

But yh like, characters still fine

Id be happy leaving him as is

[sullen geode]

I’m like xtra jumpy on this channel I played joker on release didn’t play the beta and have played him through the changes and he is a lot different

[fierce portal]

I picked him up for like two weeks and am once again looking around

But i did invest a fair bit into him

As i do with all characters i pilot

Swear people believe theyre playing against launch joker

[sullen geode]

After play him I played other characters many to level ten and up. And on returning to joker I find him
Harder to use than most

[fierce portal]

I dont think i relate

Again like, very fundies driven

And he rewards fundies heavy

[sullen geode]

It’s a me thing there I don’t gravitate toward the mage fighting style but joker is genuinely one of my favorite characters

[brisk heath]

People just want to find a excuse to hate the joker, they don't actually improve, they just blindly hear the commentary of a random streamer and repeat like parrots what they hear.

[fierce portal]

Superman core

Devil jin core

Oh no cus what if it actually ends up being devil jin again

A lot of people just struggle adapting their mindset to suit fighting games idk

[brisk heath]

In real matches they just don't want to actually learn to play against him, they just want him nerfed for no reason. For me the joker is perfect in the right now in his position. He is not between the most broken characters right now he is just a decent character and that's good.

There is nothing wrong with a character being good.

[fierce portal]

I dont think theres necessarily many broken characters atm

Just a bunch of very strong ones

And thats great

Its not launch day

[quiet flicker]

bro has a 10 percent kill comfirm and yall just ignoring it 😭 like i get ignoring it but dont act like thats ok or doesnt exist 😭

[brisk heath]

Just because your character sucks, doesn't mean joker needs to be nerfed to its level. It means instead of nerfing, buff the weak points of those characters that flaw against him.

That's more healthy.

[fierce portal]

Yh

[sullen geode]

Said before you can’t just jump in there throwing cards, up attacks,, you won’t get far you’ll get punished

[brisk heath]

But no one has that mentality. People just want a character to be nerfed for the sake of being nerfed.

[fierce portal]

Hes just like

Lucina-esque with a projectile rn

[brisk heath]

So true.

Joker jab is perfectly fine right now.

And his other abilities too.

This patch we got a nerf to joker and 2 indirects nerfs. Which are tech and jab.

[fierce portal]

They shot his one fun route 😭

[brisk heath]

Man, I just discovered a 52 damage combo against heavy character with joker and they added the stupid tech mechanic.

Although imagine putting it in practice.

[fierce portal]

Double pogo was so fun

[brisk heath]

Right?

[fierce portal]

A lot of routes were fun like

Stripes stuff

[brisk heath]

I wish instead of nerfing joker, now that he is pretty much balanced. They actually buff his down special because that thing SUCKS in 1 vs 1

[fierce portal]

But it was cool to see funny clown man fly about the place with an unnecessary combo that still like

Killed early

[brisk heath]

Yeah.

[fierce portal]

Some characters gotta have moveset filler

[brisk heath]

That's true. But I love the burn stack that applies and the randomness mechanic. My only suggestion for this is that the jack box was bigger, and applied more hitstun in its vertical knockback. Or alternative was a jab kill confirm, and both the canon and the jack where faster and reduce it's whiff on miss.

OR MAYBE.

Better.

The jack box hitbox got really long. Extending it's neck. And the cannon was a confetti gravity projectile.

[fierce portal]

Idk i just think itll stay a dud

[dusky prairie]

Is that ur actual only argument

[dusky prairie]

Oh Jab range nerf

Ok? What did really change

[sullen geode]

I’m not reading the patch notes for you

[sudden dagger]

buddy he just said what was in the patch notes

[dusky prairie]

Ok bcs i have seen them

[dusky prairie]

Yeah lol

[quiet flicker]

nah this channel is like an actual echo chamber for people trying to convince themselves joker isnt op lol

not actually worth arguing in

[dusky prairie]

Fr

[sudden dagger]

hey I play joker but at least I can admit he’s op and needs more nerfs

[quiet flicker]

showed them a clip of joker killing at 10 dmg off a jab and bros response was ''i aint watching that'' i died

[sudden dagger]

I don’t wanna see your arguments at all

I win

[quiet flicker]

^ real

[stray notch]

Joker top 1 easily

[brisk heath]

Did you really read everything I said before that? You just use a statement I said out of context and respond with an "is that your only argument."?

[brisk heath]

Or, this channel is about people coming to say they have skill problems and blame the character that was broken only in releases.

[quiet flicker]

go to combos,scroll up,see me killing dodge after hitstun bot on 10 dmg

you asked for me to show you joker bs combos and i did and you just ignored them lmao

like how can you see that and defend it seriously

[brisk heath]

1.You are using handicaps.
2. That's not how si interactions work.
3.Your case are hypotheticals, you can not apply that type of combos in a real match.

[quiet flicker]

wdym handicap? yeah he starts with 10 damage but what does that have to do with the combo. and joker combos actually happen in game all the time and theres no reason for them not to work like they did in the lab,as i have tested them with both DI in and out. 🤷

like start an actual game and do jab jab dair downb upspec upair rn,youll be suprised lol

[brisk heath]

So you are dropping your own argument mentioning that the scenario to it is too specific and also depends of the map and the opponent skill.

[brisk heath]

And do you actually spect to do it in the momento 0?

[quiet flicker]

bro wdym no 😭 im telling you it litteraly DOESNT depend on the enemies skill,it covers for both DI in and out and its true meaning theres no dodge gap,meaning theres no inputs that would save you from that

the map doesnt also matter,thats true no matther wich map 🤷

[brisk heath]

That's not true.

If is true send me a clip in a non bot match.

And tell me how many matches taked you.

[quiet flicker]

''true'' means no dodge gaps in the combo,the bot is set on dodge immedietly when theres a dodge gap. actual games dont matter because its the exact same as lab. im not going to go play joker and spam jab till i get a combo lmao

[brisk heath]

True means that di doesn't applies, that your opponent is not a moron that doesn't have timing, and works the 100% of times.

[quiet flicker]

yeah DI doesnt apply i tested it with both DI in and out lmao

[brisk heath]

A bot can't DI, they will always move to the origin location which is the start zone. That means that those combos are always sketched to work only in those circumstances.

In a real match it will never work like that. And obviously you didn't do that combo at the first time.

[quiet flicker]

they can,if you set the bot on ''dodge AWAY after hitstun'' it means they will DI away

[brisk heath]

By that same logic characters that can also 0 to death are in the same state like joker.

[brisk heath]

THATS NOT DI, THATS CALLED DODGING. DI states for Directional Input.

[quiet flicker]

yeah bro ik 😭 it also makes the DI away

go ask litteraly anybody else,this is common knowledge

[brisk heath]

But you are lying, you are stating that the bot makes natural DI which means that the bot will try to avoid the damage. Which is not true, the but after receiving knockback will try to restart it's position to the origin location which makes possible that combo since you know always the movement of the bot. In a real match you have to rely in predictions which is why that combo can be true.

[quiet flicker]

bro im saying dodge away makes them so they DONT try to recover 😭 bro just doesnt listen to me im done

[brisk heath]

If you are so determined to demonstrate that combo can work in a real match, do it. Show me against an opponent that is not a bot.

[dusky prairie]

I didnt even read the message but why u trying to lie to urself or smth abt joker

He is S tier

Thats fact

[brisk heath]

That's a lie, you guys are so blinded for hatred that keep being sour of release joker that ignore any significant nerf they did to the character an pointing to say it's broken without consider that is actually your skill that is broken.

Stop guilting a character for you atrocious abilities and incapability to actually learn the game. And point the character that are competitive menace. Look the leaderboard and see how the player with higher win rate, an none of them includes the joker.

[dusky prairie]

Funny enough even top players like void, bhads and etc think Joker is S tier

Actually

I have actual arguments abt joker being s tier

U should stop downplaying him so much

[brisk heath]

Oh sure, you don't have self criticism. Like a parrot you just yap what the streamer says 2 month ago. But not actually experience the competitive environment in bone and flesh to actually do a personal criticism to a topic you don't even have experienced into it.

[quiet flicker]

this has to be ragebait

[dusky prairie]

Im just saying they have the same opinion as me

What makes you think that Joker is not S tier?

Let me guess

Bcs u main him

😂

[brisk heath]

I main Velma and Marvin what the heck you are even talking about, I defend the joker because objectively interested in the character competitive and personally I test every character to give an standard and profesional opinion instead of a streamer decide my ideas.

[dusky prairie]

Pretty sure you do main Joker

Stop trying to hide it

And u also didnt answear my question

[brisk heath]

Bruh, I don't even have him at level 15. My mains are other mages, I'm just interested in him because I got the Batman who laughs skin and to really have my opinion about how controversial is this character.

[brisk heath]

Compared to other character that are actually competitive material, joker is not near of being that good after the changes. Arya Keeps striding within the top 100, IG and gizmo will always be competitive monster. Shaggy is shaggy, Finn didn't feel any nerf. And wonder woman, Taz and black Adam still exists.

[dusky prairie]

Joker nerf was a jab range nerf

And it wasnt that big

And thats it

Even Velma got more nerfs than Joker lol

[brisk heath]

No? Joker receive indirect nerf from auto tech and attack priority. He is the second character with more nerfs around the patches.

[brisk heath]

What are you talking about?Velma go a rework.

Have you read patch notes?

[dusky prairie]

Everyone did dum dum

[dusky prairie]

She still got nerfs

Doesnt change the fact she did

[brisk heath]

Yes and is more than enough, what you will complain? That your poor di skills permit the joker to easy combo in you? How harsh, a character in a fighting games uses his kit with precision to accumulate damage in you.

[brisk heath]

You don't understand what is a rework right?

[dusky prairie]

Not really, insane combo game, great dmg, great aproach tools, great projectiles

[brisk heath]

Of course you don't, you don't have self criticism. You just repeat what this other dude say and just repeat it like a damaged recorder.

[dusky prairie]

man i give up i think u just play stupid geez

There is not way

Are we playing the same gams

[dusky prairie]

I Just said it was my opinion lol

You are

Ragebait theres no way

[sudden dagger]

what the hell happened here

[dusky prairie]

Bro there better be a hotfix patch or smth

And they nerf Joker

Badly

Like, on everything

[quiet flicker]

id say nerf his combos but it might just be a finn moment where his kit is just so goofy it might be impossible

without just making the moves so bad they dont chain at all

[green turret]

i literally just fought the rank 7 on the world and he plays joker

he plays like he got some issues brainwise

like legit one combo out of jab

and that's it for the entire set

[brisk heath]

How horrible,the character in a fighting game has combos.

You guys are yelling: "I am bad at the game. But instead of taking accountability and improve my skills. I will blame this character instead."

[half gyro]

Bro is defending joker

Laugh at this user

[brisk heath]

Bro is hating joker, how original.

[half gyro]

I’m not hating

I’m making fun of you

[brisk heath]

And I'm not defending him.

This channel is the example of : "I like waffles" and some moron say."So do you hate pancakes" no I just said I like waffles that is a completely different statement.

[quiet flicker]

unreal

[brisk heath]

I'm being completely objective and impartial when I say the character is good but not that good to be criticized like that. You are blaming the character instead of taking accountability in what you are doing wrong. The complains against him are the same yap over and over again, instead of actually pointing what is wrong with the character. You use arguments that are also applied in the real competitive characters. But you just hate the joker because he is the joker baby.

[quiet flicker]

😭

[waxen mauve]

then imma come forward and address his problem. the jab+jab+ down air+ air down special + up attack (or whatever you want, any other move hits at that point) has to be nerfed. heres my suggestion, nerf the down special and the exploding card, a homing projectile that kills at 100 (except tom or marv's rocket ) doesnt make any sense. and ground up too, make it atleast kill at 120 or sum not at 100.

[fierce portal]

I think down specials fine lol

With how explosive the game wants to be i think like

Jus give some other characters an equivalent tool

[quiet flicker]

just buff everyone else instead of nerfing joker fr

[brisk heath]

Now you are thinking something I like.

[fierce portal]

No like, genuinely, the power ceiling is the best its been in a hot minute

[brisk heath]

That the worst balance suggestion I ever heard. An the worst part of it is that you are not even using exact numbers, you just want it to be nerfed for the sake of being nerfed. . . And in another thing, you are suggestion something that is already implemented.

1. The wild card doesn't guaranteed a kill at 100, it all depends of the character weight and position. A light character can't die in 100 for a wild card if they are not stupid enough to be in a bad position to receiving it.
   And if depends of rng to guaranteed a kill 100 while other characters can kill you at lower percentage with a 100% chance, that means the ability works perfectly fine.

2. Down special if a perfectly fine ability, has whiff, doesn have repeat movement lockout, and it makes vertical knockback. It doesn't even sum damage. If your problem to address is that it makes into a combo then you want to reduce the skill ceiling of joker. Which is completely contradictory to the problem you wan to address.

3. You have to be joking right? In which world a character doesn't kill with his up attacks at percentage of 100. This is a normal feature with every character, you are saying that an ability is broken addressing of what is a meant to do . As I repeat, all depends of the character weight. And obviously that ability will not will be a kill confirme unless your enemy is a dum.

[fierce portal]

Im not praying for a miracle in order to whiff punish anything now

[waxen mauve]

dude now youre just defending the character, ok if you wanna cheese an opponent then do it

[brisk heath]

I'm being completely objective with the character. And I can present better "deserved" nerfs to him. I just saying I like waffles, and you are saying that it means I hate pancakes. Both are completely opposite statements and just because I'm being impartial of what is true you say I defending the character.

[waxen mauve]

sorry didnt read the whole thing

[fierce portal]

Jus sayin words

Nevermind

[waxen mauve]

i usually die at 105 or something with the wild card with jack

[fierce portal]

100/110 is like

[brisk heath]

All depends of position, and ironically jack is very light for being a bruiser.

[fierce portal]

The average time its killing

[brisk heath]

I understand your issue.

[fierce portal]

If not its almost killing

[waxen mauve]

down special shouldnt send you to the top, a ground bounce would be more reasonable to deal with

[fierce portal]

Lol

[waxen mauve]

jack doesnt kill with any attacks at 100

[brisk heath]

It should. Why it will be it's gimmick then? Just damage. Why have it if doesn't give you the opportunity of combing.

[brisk heath]

No, it kills at lesser percentages.

All depends of positioning.

[waxen mauve]

well you can make it a kill confirm by simply using it after two jabs

[brisk heath]

And that your opponent is REALLY bad.

[waxen mauve]

dude you need a vid or something?

[fierce portal]

Funnily enough jacks kill power is ALSO position based!

[brisk heath]

Just try to avoid being jabbed probably? If you are punished for being reckless after the many joker jabs nerfs, the problem is that you actually have to predict it.

[fierce portal]

Unless its focus up b around mid height hes not really killing like that

[brisk heath]

Punish the joker, don't go against him. His jab has a lot of whiff and you have priority over him.

Joker jab doesnt have priority, he can't grab you with any attacks.

[waxen mauve]

that means this whole argument doesnt make any sense cause we're critisizing jonkler vs jack and not jonkler vs character of choice, so i guess we need more ppl to actually get somewhere

my bad

[brisk heath]

I address your problems but the issue of the joker is not his frame data. His problems is more deep for that. Joker is a character that hards punishes bad position and that is ok of the character. People just need to address that better.

Joker problem was never frame data. Is deep into the game mechanics itself.

[waxen mauve]

i only have one question, do you think joker is as op as everyone says? if yes show me your suggestions of nerfs if youre ok with doing so. if not, then why everyones complaining?

[fierce portal]

Kid named launch side b:

[quiet flicker]

demented channel

[fierce portal]

People are still complaining about the things they nerfed on superman

[brisk heath]

I will say he is a very good character. But not between the top 5.

[fierce portal]

A lot of people are just odd

[brisk heath]

I said frame data not hitbox data lol.

But you have a good point.

[fierce portal]

Mmm no

[waxen mauve]

that was a yes/no question😕

[fierce portal]

That side b was so safe

[brisk heath]

He is not that op as many people says but he is a very good character, he probably deservers to be whiff punished more.

The nerfs I recommend are increasing whiff in many of his abilities.

Specifically side b.

Is okay that the ability works as a way to approach.

And the repeat lock out has to be forbidden.

But if the joker misses.

He has to be hard punished.

If the joker has the right to punish hard, he needs the right to be harder punished.

[fierce portal]

Ehhhh

[brisk heath]

I just don't want to kill the character, the reason joker deals so much damage is because flammable doc is a thing not because the character itself.

[fierce portal]

For god sake that is absolutely not the problem 😭

[brisk heath]

He deserves his ladder combos, just not be a guaranteed 0 to death.

[brisk heath]

So what's is the problem?

Joker frame data works absolutely fine, his damage input in combos is high, but justified that are not completely true and depends of enemy not being a dum dum.

His jab is now completely balanced since it's hitboxes is reduced and not longer has priority.

And has a 10 frame whiff

[fierce portal]

Being able to confirm off one card with flammable is like

Actually just whatever

[brisk heath]

Is the the third Jab with the longer whiff, just below black Adam and iron giant.

[fierce portal]

Like i get hitting side b like that

Cus i think its a pretty big tool and it can be funky to punish

But like, the 3 extra damage off flammable is inconsequential when the damage hes doing is strong without it and either way is killing off two good interactions

Like im of the belief that they can jus keep their eyes off him for a bit cus like

[brisk heath]

I see you have a good point in all you are saying, something I always I like to address is that shaggy is better than joker in every way except of projectiles. He is dominant in that ambience and all his stupid damage output is from triggering that's flammable doc.

[fierce portal]

Hes not extortionatly strong, aside from his combo game

[brisk heath]

^

You are actually right.

[fierce portal]

But like, his combo game is the last thing they should touch if theyre taking him in the direction they seem to be

[brisk heath]

You nailed it correctly.

[fierce portal]

Since conveniently black adam and (formerly) iron giant can also kill you off one wee lil mistake

So like

Theyre investing in a high reward character while finetuning his tools to make sure hes not entirely low risk

[brisk heath]

That's why I'm trying to say, people just need to avoid those little mistakes and is justified that a character can hard punish you if you commit that mistake.

You clearly know very good this character

[fierce portal]

Dont try and shine my shoes dawg

But yh like, i think changing the odd thing would be great but jokers not awfully criminal anymore

[brisk heath]

I'm just appreciating someone to understand the character while being respectful and objetive and just try to justify their skill issue saying he is broke and nothing else.

[brisk heath]

He is so far far away of being the monster he was on relase

[fierce portal]

Mm

I trust pfgs vision with joker tbf

If thats what theyre wanting

Its what i said after his first nerfs its what i will say now, jokers always gonna be strong itll only be a case of how much effort the game expects

If anyone hangs around the greener grass i think hes like belial, even if arcsys understand they shouldnt be buffing him and tweak him a lil bit hes always gonna have the tools to be ridiculously good

Hes always gonna reward you as long as you have a great foundation

I remember in the first wave of nerfs i had some scrubby jokers whine about the nerfs in DMs like

Get a grip hes always gonna be fine 😭

[dusky prairie]

Joker should not be able to go up/down with side air special, its already a great and unpunishable aproach tool and i dont see why it should do that

---

He can have his combo game but at least make it not possible to get 53 dmg out of one combo

---

Nerf jokers projectiles speed

They are away too fast

And wildcard should not be the way it is

Ok its not always coming

But still

Its too fast

And u mostly not expecting it

It follows you and kills pretty ealry

Down air attack should have a hitbox nerf or smth

Its away too fast and good

And gives joker an entire combo

Thats all i would change on him

He has tools for everything

Campy and agressive ones

[brisk heath]

You really never played with the joker right?

[dusky prairie]

Ima just ignore u

U just too ignorant

Abt ur main

[brisk heath]

You are the ignorant, your suppose nerfs are actually buffs. By reducing the projectiles speed you increase his zoning setups.

By reducing the hitbox of the down normal which is not even a problem in the first place, you are increasing his sweet spot that makes the ability gives you vertical movement. To do it more precise.

There is no combo that deals more than 53 damage even with flammable. So is just your imagination

And lastly you don't suggest any real change to the wild card more that complain and say "shouldn't work that way" so I will asume you want it to be buffed or rework. Nor nerfed.

Oh and I forget the first thing you say. That would kill the ability. You are not suggesting a healthy change, you just so bad a telegraphing an attack that instead of taking accountability and improve your skills you just don't want it to have an emphatize skill ceiling.

An the worst part, your only argument against my personal is insult me and say he is my main. Which is also a lie.

[quiet flicker]

boo womp

[dusky prairie]

Not reading ur downplaying 😂🙏

[quiet flicker]

so real

[brisk heath]

Yeah, I know you are the toxic ragebaiter type the moment I understand your only complains about joker demonstrate pure skill issues instead of real nerfs joker needs. And that you don't know anything about the character to know one of his problems is that joker is a heavy character.

I know everybody will stop complaining when joker weight is reduced and he is easier to kill.

And he becomes a glass canon.

Just reduce his weight, thats all

He is perfectly fine, let him be at least some patches.

[dusky prairie]

Nah he is getting nerfed pretty sure

[brisk heath]

They will not nerf a character just because some randoms players that are pretty bad at the game doesn't learn how to appropriate counter him.

[quiet flicker]

i dont think he will tbh they really dont want to nerf him for some reason

but i mean they also didnt touch finn for a while so maybe 🤷

[brisk heath]

Probably because he objectively doesn't need it yet?

The only joker nerf that is consider right is his weight, other than that are just people complaining.

[quiet flicker]

bro i showed you 40 dmg joker combo and him killing true at 10 dmg yesterday and you just said ''bots cant DI away'' and when i told you they could and to ask litteraly anybody else you just didnt listen to me i aint arguing with you anymore 😭

[brisk heath]

That's not true.

I wanted you to confirme me is that combo worked 100% of matches.

[fierce portal]

Awfully false

[sudden dagger]

two words. Samurai Jack.

[fierce portal]

One, superman

[brisk heath]

You got me there.

[brazen stone]

So i switched to Beetlejuice after maining Joker for a while. Dude feels ass. Surprisingly hard to find kill, unless maybe i haven't found the route yet

[daring pumice]

nah hes ass

you need to rlly outplay your opponent to get success with him

[dense radish]

Combos that are basically ladders to the top void

Bam ringout

Woahhh joker so good so much skill

Big brain hurr rdurrrr

[brisk heath]

Okay, try to make that in a real match 100% of time to confirm is true.

From 0 to death, show me is a consistent and viable option each match you play.

[dense radish]

Its not a 0td

But

All these loser joker mains constantly use it

And it kills at moderately highish percentages

Not high

Even

Thats why its stupid asf

Cause its string

Strong

Skqhshahfhwhzxyhsksfj

[fierce portal]

Me when im in grand finals and my opponent drops the controller everytime they get hit:

[dusky prairie]

Joker killed me at 60

2 times in a row

[quiet flicker]

joker moment!!! your lucky it didnt happen at 10 dmg

[dusky prairie]

It happened again

Now at 20

[fierce portal]

Smoked

[brisk heath]

Did you controller disconnects each time joker starts a combo on you?

[dusky prairie]

Believe me when i say i did smash the dodge thing

He has a 0 to death

And u cant dodge

And why do you only talk on the Joker channel

And defend him everytime

If u arent a Joker main

[dense radish]

Ermm yeah so Joker isnt broken u just suck ☝️🤓

[fierce portal]

No hes pretty good

You also just suck

[dusky prairie]

Bruh he is the best character in the game rn

He has tools for everything

When ur argument are stuff like

Skill issue

Just Di

And stuff

U basically saying u have 0 arguments

[fierce portal]

You are complaining solely about his combo game

And you do not know how to deal with his combo game

Boo

Womp

[dusky prairie]

Im ok with him having a combo game

Not a 0 to death

Neither a 50 dmg combo

[fierce portal]

Yeah me too

Especially since ion walk into his loving embrace

[brisk heath]

Is not about spam dashing, is about DI and good timing.

[dusky prairie]

"Just DI"

[fair nymph]

Scum

[dense radish]

Lmaoo

Watch if u go the finn channel and say this they all start losing their minds

So funny

[quiet flicker]

joker mains on their way to argue that the character just has ''good combo game 🤪 ''(showed video proof of 40 dmg true combo killing at 10 and ignored)

[winged anvil]

Real

[brisk heath]

You literally did it against a dummy with handicap. A combo isn't true unless it works 100% of matches and that you didn't give prove.

[quiet flicker]

bro you do know the lab simulates the game right 😭 so matches are the exact same as the actual game,and that the lab works the exact same as the game,and that lab is the game and simulates the game so what works in the lab is real 😭 and wdym handicap,handicap means the damage the bot starts with. i started it at 10 dmg

[fair nymph]

Scum

[brisk heath]

Do it in a real match consitently

Do it.

[quiet flicker]

🤓

[fierce portal]

Man hes got you there

[quiet flicker]

he really got me fr (denying the lab works)

[fierce portal]

Im not talking to you though thats wild

[quiet flicker]

damn thats friendly fire my bad

😭

[dusky prairie]

That guy is just bait

He problably only talks on the Joker channel

[brisk heath]

The lab doesn't simulate a game, it only simulate a possible but no insistent outcome

[dusky prairie]

Who do u main

[brisk heath]

As start why you choose the map with the lowest blast zone? Have you really apply consistently that combo in every match? Did you made it at your first true or that's why you handicapped? Or the enemies automatically will di to the same direction after the start of the combo in to the origin point?

[brisk heath]

Marvin and Velma. Occasionally I play stripe and Jason.

[quiet flicker]

word salad with a side of ranch !!!! i explained to you how lab works like 3 times now i aint doing it again

[brisk heath]

But I don't think who I main should be an argument.

[brisk heath]

I say, apply it consistently in a real match.

Not lab, I don't care about that. Even worst when you put the perfect circumstances for that combo tu be "true"

[dusky prairie]

And why do u downplay Joker so much

[quiet flicker]

that doesnt matter bucko<!!!!!!! the lab simulates a real match!!!!!

and bots can indeed DI away!!!!! ask litteraly anybody else !!!!! bowowwowowowow

[fair nymph]

My daily scum

[half gyro]

This Turk guy is brain dead

The bots in training mode can only di/dodge in one direction at a time like away

In a real game, opponents can change their Di direction anytime, fastfall or jump

And in a real game, you hit your combos starters on moving target, which means that moves don’t always setup you up for combos perfectly

And you also have to take into considering that character size and speed make some combos escapable

[main jasper]

Hello guys I'm working on a YouTube video and basically I'm trying to figure as each community what you think is the best and worst skin is for your character

[quiet flicker]

😩 my brain died

[fierce portal]

Ta

[half gyro]

What

[short zephyr]

Hello. Now that im finally master 1 on marvin, I decided to reward myself by playing the jonkler.

S'been fun so far, of course, since he's so strong. But do you guys have any tips on things I should do or avoid?

[fair nymph]

Stop playing joker

[short zephyr]

Nope

[fierce portal]

What are you usually doing rn

[short zephyr]

Hmm... I think I tend to use air side b moreso than the other moves. I make sure to throw cards as often as possible, within the right range.

I try to get em off guard sometimes with eitheir jab, dair or air down b.

Oh yeah, I make sure to use upair when theyre right above me.

And if they seem passive, I shuffle my cards for a bit.

I do know the early combo off of jab.

I do get punished plenty times for being prolly too agressive with side b sometimes

At rare times, I surprise spike them with IAD dair.

[fierce portal]

Yeah theres not particularly a reason to overextend on joker

Side b is good as a ledge trapping tool

Both of them

[short zephyr]

I see

[short zephyr]

Yeah, I tend to be a tad too agressive, I'm not a very patient player, but I still try

[fierce portal]

You get a choice of playing reactive or proactive

I prefer proactive cus it lets me catch people guaranteed if im right

[short zephyr]

Since I main marvin, im prolly better suited for proactive.

[fierce portal]

Dash attack is a brilliant option in neutral cus it low profiles + its got a nice hitbox on it

[short zephyr]

Oh yea, I did use dash very few times too. It's so strong.

[fierce portal]

And its also very active

[short zephyr]

Ye

[fierce portal]

But yh as long as youre catching peoples DI well you sound like youre well off

[short zephyr]

I think I can do that, but it's still a wip for me, but I'm slowly improving.

But thanks for the few headsup!

[brisk heath]

All turk argument drops when the nearest thing you can simulate to a real human is putting the bot dodge away after hitstun, and out the bot in max difficulty. That combo will never be real.

[fair nymph]

Scum

[short zephyr]

Is that your pokemon name?

[fair nymph]

😭😭

[main jasper]

Yall are the only group that didn't respond at all damn 💀

[sudden dagger]

this channel has been a warzone for the past week

[main jasper]

I see

I asked every community about what their best and worst skin for their character is

For a YouTube video I'm doing

[sudden dagger]

bwl is the easy best pick and for the worst is probably matrix for just being really “eh” on joker

[main jasper]

And best?

I imagine its the batman who laughs skin

[sudden dagger]

yea

[fair nymph]

Scum

[short zephyr]

Bless you!

[fair nymph]

🙏🏾

[short zephyr]

I thought that was a sneeze

[dusky prairie]

Nerf

[brisk heath]

Joker didn't receive any nerf to his weigh yet.

Cool.

[drifting prism]

Nerf joker

[brisk heath]

Actually pfg nerfed the joker right now because you said it.

[fair nymph]

Scum

[short zephyr]

Gotta stop talking to yourself like that... it's unhealthy!

[fair nymph]

Nah I’m talking to all joker mains🗣️

[short zephyr]

Ah... so that's what it's all about! Is there something wrong with them being joker mains?

[fair nymph]

Yes there’s a lot of things

[short zephyr]

Such as?

[pulsar crystal]

refuses to elaborate

[paper topaz]

👀

[sullen geode]

Dude literally comes in here every few days to insult the actual people that play joker. Not joker. People. he’s just a sad person ig. has to do that to get thru his life

[short zephyr]

I know

[final eagle]

The joker glaze is crazy😭

Just admit he is top 5

[sullen geode]

He is top 5 on most and mineBut everyone has like idk shell shock from him from release. So everyone wants him to be the next Jake

[brisk heath]

The funny part is that he doesn't even give a counter argument with evidence that what I'm saying is false.

I'm not glazing joker, I just hate when they hate him for false reasons.

I like to be objectively with the character and understand the frustration of players.

But I will be firm to say that joker needs a little bit of time before get into premature conclusions to let the character adapt into the competitive.

Although I will say, I don't like joker being a heavy character.

[sullen geode]

Just gets to me I play everyone and joker the most cuz of the looney rifts last season. PvP it doesn’t bother me one bit to play against him as other characters. Yeah imo weight need changed numerous places

[brisk heath]

Me neither, I don't hate playing against a joker, and I'm a Velma player, he supposedly is a very bad matchup for me.

[sullen geode]

I will say any IG has a reason to complain joker just spits him out

[brisk heath]

The character I absolutely have a stressful time and barely can actuallly have fun are wonder woman, and black Adam. Those character don't want to make me have fun. Demands a lot more of caution and skill during a match when fight against them.

[brisk heath]

I play a lot of iron giant and don't have any problem with him, that's probably because I actually have a build for specifically counter him and other mages. Joker players when I play IG accumulate a lot of damage quickly against me but their kill confirm cames so late that I already removed 2 stocks from them while having over 200 damage.

It's very odd killing a joker with IG while they are above 100 damage. Normally is between 80 and 60, with a lot of luck and enemy brain rotten, make a 0 to death with a little bit of prediction.

Joker for being a heavy character doesn't stands the iron giant 10k miles per our truck hits.

[pulsar crystal]

Just give the character some endlag man

[sullen geode]

Deff deff agree. Jokers a brain dead character he is way easier to work around then a lot of others

[brisk heath]

That's called "on whiff" here. But it's a very delicated topic.

And need more analysis than just "because yes"

[pulsar crystal]

My issue is huge hitboxes, high damage, absurd projectiles, and just a generally absurd tool kit

[brisk heath]

That ruined Velma in the first place.

[brisk heath]

Joker hitbox aren that big, at least not longer. But nerfing their size will have the contrary effect to a nerf. Since now combos will have their sweet spot more precise, and lead into some 0 to death or extended combo so no. . . That was an already talk topic.

And joker is not the type of character of having many tools, he has a lot of full filler abilities that barely interact which other.

But I understand your frustration with the character.

[pulsar crystal]

Honestly I don’t hate the character as much as others, hes definitely a top tier just mainly character with weird tools

His movement to me is insane

[brisk heath]

Yeah, you are completely right. Her down special(ground), forward special(ground), and neutral special (ground) are tools that are completely unuse by a professional joker player.

[sullen geode]

He’s not Morty fast but he’s fast…

[brisk heath]

Maybe you are right, but is more about of games mechanic and movement control than the character itselft. Although he has a windup so he cant use a lot of the dodge cancel system.

[pulsar crystal]

I’m talking about stuff like baton that propels him forward, the ballon that blows him upward, whatever he throws downward that bonks him up a bit, etc etc

He feels like a bruiser to me

[brisk heath]

I don't find anything wrong in the up special, probably a little bit hard to predict his forward like you say but still is very punishable.

And now that you mention it, he is kinda bruiser actually.

Like I say his abilities and tools barely interact which each other, joker is no the setup character than a mage normally do.

He just have 2 projectiles abilities. And one REALLY is horrible.

And the other one is power creep but not actually op.

[pulsar crystal]

I’ve heard cards are absurd but don’t know that much about them

[brisk heath]

Don't suggest them to be slower, that would give more zoning to him. I'm sure cards are absolutely fine, people tend to complain most about the wild card but that is just bad positioning punishment. Is not true that it kills at 100, all depends of the character. There are many situations where most bruiser doesn't even die by a wild card at 130.

Except samurai jack, coincidentally are the player that tend to complain more about him.

He is the lightest bruiser after all.

Let's give joker more time, eventually people will start adapting to him and learn how to counter him appropriately. With the time will understand more the character and give him his adjustment.

Although it would be more healthy and reasonable to buff his weak aspects as well

[fair nymph]

Scum

[fair nymph]

Bro what are u even trying to argue that the wild card is bad positioning punishment for out of here and that perks sucks and dying to that is just bad luck

[brisk heath]

Let me guess, you play a light character or probably a vertical movement character like superman or black Adam.

[fair nymph]

Who’s Shazam

I play Rick

[brazen stone]

man playing against joker as BJ feels kinda rough. Joker has similiar tools, but he also got that cards to do chip damage over time

[fair nymph]

And than bro randomly gets a homing kill move

[paper topaz]

Let them be

Joker is even top 3 and bro is saying he’s not top 5

[final eagle]

😭

[brisk heath]

Black Adam, sorry. Although now that I think about it black Adam can be Called Shazam too.

[brisk heath]

Anyway, still is a very very light character.

[fair nymph]

What does light have to do with anything why does bro have an rng move that kills

[dusky prairie]

He is light as Shaggy

Thats not light

Thats mid weight

[brisk heath]

RICK IS NOT A MID WEIGHT HAHA.
And shaggy is not light

Shaggy has a weight value of 2920, exactly the same weight as wonder woman.

And Rick has a weight value of 2147. Making him the third lightest character of the game.

[brisk heath]

That obviously bad positioning and not actually expecting a wild card punished you so hard being a light character.

[fair nymph]

Ok buddy I’m supposed to expect and RNG move that tracks u

[brisk heath]

Is not 100% Homing, the wildcard can be easily evade by just jumping, is also unpredictable for joker so is more common to miss than you would expect.

Is not a guaranteed hit, stripe is okay doing damage with his gun and is 100 consistent. But joker 10 damage projectile not?

[fair nymph]

U can play for stripes not joker

[fair nymph]

Yall will say anything but joker is broke

Broken

[sudden dagger]

wildcards problem rn is that it’s horribly designed like dying because the joker got lucky is always not gonna feel good

doesn’t matter if it’s balanced or not if the perk is badly designed

[fair nymph]

Every joker thinks otherwise

It’s perk based solely on luck

But this guy thinks it’s a skill issue

[sudden dagger]

wild card should be a set amount that way both the joker and the opponent get to at least plan around it

and get rid of the homing

it doesn’t need it

[fair nymph]

Yah joker main thinks that

He’s perfectly balanced

[sudden dagger]

oh god no but I’m not arguing about it

[brisk heath]

Good I don't main Joker, although I never say he is balanced.

[brisk heath]

I don't think wildcard is completely bad designed. And the homing is not a 100% homing. I find it funny to be jumpscared if not playing careful around it. Randomness is a really cool mechanic in a fighting game if you actually apply it.

My suggestion for wild card rework is this one:

-Keeps it's homing property. Reducing it's detection arc in a 15% maximum.
-Reduce it's knockback scaling from 21 to 19-20
-Remove the breaking shield properties.
-Increase it's damage to 15
-No longer throws along other cards.

New Signature perk (Jokers wild):
-Each time Joker plays a card, a counter over him will appear showing the chances of a Joker Card from 0-100%. The card will have a random property that will be notified before being thrown: Includes, Armor Break, Confetti, Ice, static and weakened.

Passive: When Joker crouches and stacks the deck he randomly changes the odd of a wild card.

[sudden dagger]

yea all wildcard needs is a way to see it coming at least

like I’ve had moments playing joker that are just “oh ok guess I win” and it doesn’t feel rewarding at all

[brisk heath]

I find funny jumpscaring the enemy, and when I play against the joker I feel so rewarding of actually make a nice prediction dodge or jump. Feels rewarding.

[sudden dagger]

yea I think the chance bar is the best choice if you don’t wanna drastically change the perk

[fair nymph]

Or jsut get rid of it

[sudden dagger]

still keeps the chance event and gives some prediction

[brisk heath]

Yeah, but I really like my rework idea. Feels fun to play.

[fair nymph]

Why do u want an rng system in the game anyway

[sudden dagger]

tf2 brainrot

[brisk heath]

Omg, I wish I could have control over everything including the opponents I play.

[fair nymph]

Huh

[brisk heath]

Máster oogway says you can't control everything you want on life. Or something like that. I just know monkey instinct when playing shaggy.

[fair nymph]

Yah ur cringe asf

[brisk heath]

That's difference, that's why I'm happy and you not.

[fair nymph]

Bro what

[green turret]

LOL

[void cove]

what are the best perks for joker

i think im pretty decent with joker and his combos

but im not sure about perks

i use
jokers wild
thats flammable
airwalker
armor crush

[fierce portal]

You can replace flammable with snowball depending on preference
Take 100% weakened now, joker doesnt particularly benefit off airwalker anymore
And sub out armour crush for pugilist

[dusky prairie]

Dude wildcard is the worst feature ever made

Oh yeah we got a kill comfirm thats super fast follows you kills early and u cant predict cuz its random

[soft raft]

This character still top 1 and even saiki being the best joker player rn say so btw

[fair nymph]

It’s a skill issue u didn’t prepare for a random killing homing projectile according to the other guy

Scum to btw

[tropic crown]

balanced char

[void cove]

i used to use the bigger baloon thing but idk it didnt do much

so i changed it

[crude olive]

How fun is this character? Haven’t really given mage characters much of a chance but Joker seems pretty cool with the combos he can do along side all his projectiles

[brisk heath]

Very fun to play with and against, people are just complainers.

He is an easy character with a very very high skill ceiling potential.

Although most tools of his kit are useless. G Side special, G down special for example.

[crude olive]

Hmm alright

Been having fun with playing Harley but joker seemed cool too and there’s a $5 deal thing that lets you get both

[brisk heath]

Remember, joker is a heavy character, joker is a heavy character, joker is a heavy character.

[crude olive]

Played against one and he was cooking me with them combos sometimes

[crude olive]

Heavy??????

Bro is not a tank

[brisk heath]

He weighs the same as wonder woman.

He is the fifth heaviest character in the game.

[crude olive]

That’s…

That’s not okay

I could run him with the last stand perk

[brisk heath]

Contrary to popular opinion joker is not that fast, he depends a lot of dodge cancel. In another term, the character is not fast by itself.

[brisk heath]

Jokers wild, That's flammable doc, last stand, pugilist.

That's the optimal build.

[crude olive]

What about signature perks

Man wish I could grind more

[brisk heath]

Jokers wild.

Wild card.

[crude olive]

Oh

Only got like 2000 and like 3 different characters I wanna buy perks for

[brisk heath]

10% of chance of a really good projectile that breaks shield and has a low homing arc.

Which means every 1/10 card you will jumpscare the enemy.

[crude olive]

Oh

That’s evil

But then again

It’s the joker

🃏

[brisk heath]

Although only works as damage low against heavy characters. It only kills bad positioned light character.

[brisk heath]

Is very easy to dodge and miss against good players.

[crude olive]

Ah

But still a solid surprise tool right

Could possibly punish their dodges or something like that

[brisk heath]

Yeah, and your last kill confirm that can rescue your game or screw up your whole match because you don't get that wild card.

[brisk heath]

That's the thing, always try to expect a wild card when a character is bad positioned at top of the blast zone. Can lead you to an easy kill, unless the enemy share some braincells and dodges perfectly and you are screwed up.

There are matches where you can get up to 3-5 wildcards and there are matches where you can neither have it.

Is an double edge perk.

[crude olive]

Let’s go gambling!!!

Reminds me of Luigi’s misfire from smash lol

[brisk heath]

Or game and watch judge. Works exactly as that.

[crude olive]

Basically he has like a 1/8 chance for his side special to be really fast and strong

Ah yeah another good comparison

[brisk heath]

In this case the probabilities are even lower.

[crude olive]

1/10 I guess

10% chance

[brisk heath]

Yes indeed.

Always have a keybind for making neutral attacks so you can spam projectiles and turn on fire on enemies.

[soft raft]

He's not fun to play against that's just a lie

[crude olive]

Yeah my L1 is neutral attack and my R1 is neutral special

Helps me when trying to spam Superman frost breath lol

[brisk heath]

For me is fun because I can get better next time at the game. I learn more playing against joker instead of a mediocre character.

You learn more from failure than success.

[crude olive]

I guess it’s just a perspective thing

He’s tricky to fight against for sure

Some people like the challenge, some people just find it frustrating

For me it’s a bit of both and it depends more on how much I feel like I can actually win

I like being put up against someone who challenges me but doesn’t obliterate me

[brisk heath]

He is, but not a big deal. Joker players are slow and depends a lot of a single tool, when you understand that all joker gameplay depends of that exactly tool you can easily counter it.

Because of him I perfectly parry with Velma when he side b

And now know how to hard punish that poor jester.

[brisk heath]

Joker has a incredible answer to projectiles.

The neutral air special. You can charge it an dodge to save the charge.

That acid turns enemies on fire, breaks shield and even heavy projectiles.

Is really good.

[soft raft]

Maybe for you but for most of the people isn't fun, playing against a top 1 character that has a true 0TD is not that fun, if he gets advantage the game is lost for u, most of the times you can't do a comeback unless you cheese him

Also not talking about the RNG of the card perk

[brisk heath]

Joker doesn't have a 0 to death?

Why are you talking about.

[soft raft]

I don't think it's fun to get deleted because the other one had luck

[soft raft]

He literally has against light characters? Lol

[brisk heath]

Okay, show me.

[soft raft]

And against medium it's a 40/60 TD

[soft raft]

Ok lemme search

[brisk heath]

Show me a video made by yourselft.

[crude olive]

Dang that’s a crazy good tool

[brisk heath]

Made by yourself.

[soft raft]

Why from myself? Lol

[brisk heath]

Because that would dorp your whole argument if you don't do it.

[crude olive]

If you can do the touch of death combo your point will have more value

[soft raft]

I can't show a clip of the best joker player doing that? It's any more different?

[brisk heath]

Assuming a character is just broken and easy in every player.

[brisk heath]

^

[brisk heath]

That's literally destroys your point.

You are using gameplay of a top player.

Not the common average player.

[soft raft]

Why? Because most of the players can't do that so he doesn't have one?

[crude olive]

“This character is broken with a easy kill combo” and only 3% of all players can do it

[brisk heath]

^

[soft raft]

Oh wow I never tought of finding joker downplayers when he still top 1

[brisk heath]

Literally there's every top player of any character that has ever do a "0 to death true combo"

[soft raft]

So lemme get it
If a character has a 0TD but most of the players don't do it even when the best player of THAT character says it's posible

He doesn't have one?

[brisk heath]

Joker doesn't have a true 0 to death that doesn't includes your opponent dropping his controller mid combo

[soft raft]

He literally has but you want me to show a clip of myself?

[brisk heath]

Even in that case joker doesn't have it, and in that case you obviously will use old footage when the joker was possible to do. Not consistent and average situations. No, just an specific situation that happen when the sun was in certain angle.

[soft raft]

It's not old footage, it's from a few days and they haven't touch joker last patch

[crude olive]

Tbh I’m kinda curious about what it looks like

Could you share the clip

[soft raft]

Ok I'm sending it to you

[brisk heath]

Sure, here are the rules. Do it consistently in not bot matches. 0 to death, do it in at least 5 matches in a row.

Record it and show me to me.

So I can believe you.

[crude olive]

If it’s a “true” zero to death then should that mean you can land it consistently like a majority of the times you attempt do it?

[brisk heath]

Yes, including factors like player skill, directional Input and hitstun combo before a dodge.

[crude olive]

Even if opponent DIs? Can they dodge out of it in any way?

[brisk heath]

They can dodge actually.

[crude olive]

Game can feel weird with the combo speed but most stuff I string together feels like the opponent can dodge out of it anyway

[soft raft]

Bruh? I am in a tournament or what? lmao, being true doesn't mean you have to fish for that everytime, unless you want to be that type of guy that only fishes for a jab

[brisk heath]

That's literally the definition of true.

[soft raft]

?

That's not the definition of true combo

What rank are you even on to say that?

[brisk heath]

Is consistent, works 100% of times is started, you can absolutely not do any action about it, can be applied in every character excluding factors like their weight or size.

No matter the perks, no matter stats factors.

It will always work 100% in every match and will guarantee a kill.

[brisk heath]

That's the definition of true 0td combo.

Sure, 0td exists in every character, but none of them are 100% true and depends of many factors.

[soft raft]

No? the 0td can change depending of weight or size, just like how characters have true loops on iron giant as an example, being ''true'' doesn't mean it's universal for every character in the game

[brisk heath]

That's literally the definition of true, in that case means that just depends of the character, which is contradictory to your point in which you assume it will be a confirm kill every time.

[soft raft]

Being true also means you can do it on different characters depending on the %, a kill confirm is not true if you can't do it on iron giant? cuz then this game doesn't have any kill confirm

Wait wait lemme ask

Who do you think are in the top 3 best characters on 1's rn?

[brisk heath]

Top 10, not top 3 not even 5. Of more of 25 characters thats a very good spot.

Im not saying the joker is bad, he is no that strong.

[soft raft]

Just answer the question

[brisk heath]

We are talking about 0 td, not about the enemy not knowing to dodge.

[soft raft]

I'm asking you something

Cuz maybe you are someone with 50 hours in the game

That has no experience against a good joker and just says anything being low rank

[brisk heath]

#clips message

Sure mate

[soft raft]

That shows nothing?

What's the rank

I want something that proves that your opinion is as valide as mine without doing a "Do this and this and then I believe you"

[brisk heath]

Dude i dont need to show you nothing, ranks doesnt even determine in the first place your skill. All goes around MMR, the matchmaking can put a grand master with a bronze an the match can have the ocation of being equally fair.

[soft raft]

So I need to show you a clip of me doing something 5 times in a row but you don't need to show anything? Wow that's fair

Just say you have no exp in competitive or ranked

[dusky prairie]

Dont let they lie to you Joker is the best character in the game

He has a true 0 to death

40 dmg combos

Really goos kill comfirms

[brisk heath]

Because that objective and something that doesnt have to be with someones experience.

[dusky prairie]

And wildcard is just stupid

[fair nymph]

Bros skill ceiling is not high

[dusky prairie]

I never played Joker and can do his 40 dmg combo just by trying

[soft raft]

So if a better player than you tells you something it's not true cuz you haven't experience that?

[brisk heath]

A joker never combo me into a 0 death beacause i remember i have a joystick and a dodge button.

[fair nymph]

Don’t listen to him it it’s rage bait

[fair nymph]

What rank are u

[brisk heath]

the quesiton is, what rank are you?

and how many hours you have in the game

[fair nymph]

It’s kind of crazy ppl are saying he’s balanced

[brisk heath]

send me your wb user

[fair nymph]

Ight first tell me what’s urs

[brisk heath]

No no, lets see you first, i insist. if is that easy to show why would you dont show it?

[fair nymph]

Bro won’t tell me his rank

[brisk heath]

The same works for you, send me you wb username. I want to see your history

[fair nymph]

That’s not rank

I’ll tell u my rank

[soft raft]

Send yours, I wanna see it

[fair nymph]

He won’t he’s scared

[brisk heath]

Sorry, i was in a match

[brisk heath]

Why you dont show me yours if you want it?

You probably are a master player

in that case

[soft raft]

Cuz mine is DPRWINTERFALL just like my nickname

What is yours?

Also I don't only play ranked, I also play some tournaments when I can
Wbu? you have a start.gg where I can see you have experience against good players?

[brisk heath]

You have all that and complain about joker?

[soft raft]

You still don't want to say your wb user

[waxen mauve]

bruhv

[brisk heath]

How many hour did you say you have in the game?

[soft raft]

What's your wb user? I said mine

U asking so much for wb user but you don't give yours

[waxen mauve]

how tho

[brisk heath]

Why are you so crazy about rank positioning? It just a title, you will play against any rank anyway. Why dont talk about player ranked stats. We share exactly the same game stats and you say im a low experience?

[waxen mauve]

btw tsuki did you try it on a lighter character?

[brisk heath]

Let me try with gizmo

[waxen mauve]

aint there any lighter character?

[brisk heath]

He is the lighter

[waxen mauve]

try it on arya

[brisk heath]

ah yes

my bad

[soft raft]

Why are you answering a question with more questions? Do you know that's rude?

[soft raft]

Lemme send you the video, from saiki, the one who won 5 tournaments in a row with joker btw

[waxen mauve]

which character did he do it on

[soft raft]

He also has a lot of other videos showcasing 30-TD and more

[brisk heath]

he plays morty

master morty

[soft raft]

Joker

[brisk heath]

but is heavier than arya

[waxen mauve]

nah like who did he 0 to death with jonkler

[soft raft]

Thank you always good to remind that B)

[brisk heath]

I really admire you are persistent to level a single character into master, but i personally prefer to equally experience in bone and flesh with many characters to understand them better. Even if they are not my mains

[soft raft]

Greeted

[soft raft]

So? Whats ur wb user I'm just asking for that lol

I see you have a lot of experience in high level

[waxen mauve]

wait i gotta actually test this wtf

[brisk heath]

I dont like people to judge me by my rank in master and not for my player stats that are the most important so i will dm you the comparison.

[waxen mauve]

welp

its fr

but pretty hard to pull of if you ask me