Tom And Jerry

[subtle lotus]

That waesnt an option all this time

[fast zephyr]

oh yeah

[subtle lotus]

I fought the top 2 and above on season 2

[fast zephyr]

season 2 i was 12 i think

[odd wadi]

You think t&j needs buffs?

[subtle lotus]

They waesnt getting caught by that trash move

[fast zephyr]

totally

[subtle lotus]

1000%

[fast zephyr]

not a strong one, but something...

to make combos perhaps

[subtle lotus]

Atleast add combos and kill confirms

[fast zephyr]

and a kill confirm

yup

[odd wadi]

I don't but I did say if it happens a small one at best

[fast zephyr]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/786408928589512745/1297798296001052712/image.png?ex=67363799&is=6734e619&hm=9622d87bb0b5df0eac77554413c337f8c77f999af17d43096e31056ed8537e7c&

this guy is really toxic btw

[subtle lotus]

Bro he's just trash bro

[odd wadi]

😂

[fast zephyr]

i win him everytime i play against him haha

[subtle lotus]

He dont have combos

And kill confirms

Also he got the worst disaster state ig

[odd wadi]

You gotta setup its part of being a mage

[subtle lotus]

And he dies at 70

[odd wadi]

The other mages do the same

[subtle lotus]

And you say he dont need buffs

[subtle lotus]

🤡

Being an mage don't mean you can't have combos

I could say the same about rick

[odd wadi]

You gonna use Joker as your example ?

[fast zephyr]

facts

[subtle lotus]

And rick it's overpowered

[odd wadi]

Rick's not overpowered

Just how he should've been to start

[subtle lotus]

You simply don't know how to use him maybe

[odd wadi]

I don't play Rick but they're not destroying me in mass

[subtle lotus]

Hes atleast s tier

[odd wadi]

Even when I'm Jason

[subtle lotus]

You need to play against an good one

[odd wadi]

Rick is the least of my worries

I've played master ricks

After his buffs I've only played one or two bad ones

[subtle lotus]

I have played top 1 rick

Hes really good

[odd wadi]

Really good, but no OP

[fast zephyr]

rick is good

[subtle lotus]

You can set up and mix up with him

[fast zephyr]

but besides that

[subtle lotus]

As T&J should he

Should be

As an mage

[fast zephyr]

its ok

[odd wadi]

He is that way now

[subtle lotus]

And he can kill super early like 0td you

With polymorph

[odd wadi]

Just don't get morphed?

[fast zephyr]

that is way harder to hit that the racket haha

[odd wadi]

Or don't let him morph

[subtle lotus]

You dont need to hit it

You can just use it on yourself

And abuse of the big hitbox

[fast zephyr]

yeaaaa

i also like that

the big size, is a really good thing in tnj

[subtle lotus]

Also doing the skywalker 0td with him

[fast zephyr]

oh, that perk is busted with rick

id love to use it on tnj

but its kinda useless

only in the corners its op

[subtle lotus]

T&J needs to be like season 3 T&J

At the start of season 3

He got his jump cancel and paddle into jerry shot

Reseting into an ground bounce tech read

[odd wadi]

I think you just need crutch paddle spams

[subtle lotus]

Also you could just set up jerry to do some incredible reads

[subtle lotus]

I think i just need atleast one combo to reset

And one kill confirm

[fast zephyr]

im pretty sure they will eventually re add this

at least one of them

[subtle lotus]

They can add repetitive lockout to paddle

And re add jump branch window

[fast zephyr]

ill be happy with paddle + racket

tbh

[subtle lotus]

Ye

[odd wadi]

Id love this

[subtle lotus]

Whatever

I just need combos and kill confirms

[odd wadi]

I like my trap combos

[fast zephyr]

do you ever win against a top 100?

everytime i do i take a screenshot haha

[odd wadi]

I've only ever fought them when I'm Jason and don't think I beat any of them

Played evo.#16 Wonder woman and stopped playing the game for a few weeks after that

[fast zephyr]

lmfao

i hate playing against bugs bunny top

they know how to use him in every move

[subtle lotus]

Bugs its fine for me

Skill character now

[fast zephyr]

yeah

but before tho

[subtle lotus]

I was an good bugs player last season

Hit masters 3 with him on 2s

[odd wadi]

I've played one of those too. He was a much better version of the high skill ones now.

[subtle lotus]

They should do smth like bugs to T&J

Like you need to reset to hit paddle like before

And after doing paddle into jerry shot you got dodge branch window

So you need to read

To continue doing some saucy stuff

[odd wadi]

Id like if my projectiles didn't take my trap out. Though I could really use them defensively now that I think about it

[subtle lotus]

Or set up for some reads

[fast zephyr]

i only ask for a paddle + racket for combo

and a kill confirm

[subtle lotus]

Il ask for paddle into jerry

[fast zephyr]

with that, tnj is back for me

[subtle lotus]

Paddle into racket its so op

[odd wadi]

I just wait until they're in burnout

[subtle lotus]

You could just confirm with up special

[odd wadi]

Free kill after that

Or use in air rocket to stall in air for dodge reads to get trash can lids

[subtle lotus]

Add paddle into jump up special, down air and n special

[fast zephyr]

isnt that kind like the same?

[subtle lotus]

No bc if you add jerry instead

You can't use up special rocket

[fast zephyr]

yeah, but you can later confirm with many other attacks

and i think that with jerry, you can do infinity loops

[odd wadi]

Yeah

[fast zephyr]

i dont remember that much

[odd wadi]

Void started that

Its likely never coming back

Racket or up special would make more sense

From the jump cancel

[subtle lotus]

You can loop too with racket

Its the same

They just need to add an dodge window after the first jerry or racket

[fast zephyr]

then its the same

hahaha

[subtle lotus]

No bc after doing racket you got the option to confirm with up special rocket

Then up air

[odd wadi]

I'm really okay with how they are currently. I focus on using all of the moves so I'm used to how they work though I'd like the same control pole had in the closed betas and such. It's fairly fixed right now unless you hardcore make it go down or up

[fast zephyr]

yeah

the character is not bad

you just have to learn how to play it

[odd wadi]

They're just not super straight forward.

[fast zephyr]

its difficult to kill yeah...

but not imposible tho

[odd wadi]

I typically go for jab combo to down tilt for kill

Or Jerry shot to fishing pole mixup and hope they get baited

[fast zephyr]

its one of the 3 ways to "kill confirm"

the other ones could be paddle + rocket jerry

or paddle + down special

[odd wadi]

Or that jab combo into down tilt to the trap. I've also gotten good at timing Jerry shot when they're knocked away to hit them right before dodge or right after they dodge

[odd wadi]

This one is funny

[subtle lotus]

They aren't that good

They have horrible mus

And your ignoring the fact that if you lose jerry

You likely lose the stock

[odd wadi]

I hardly lose him but that's why I focus on using everything so I don't feel crippled when he dies

[fast zephyr]

i usually lose jerry, but that is kinda whatever actually

i must say

[subtle lotus]

My mmr its too high so i always play with pro players

[odd wadi]

Try to force burnout so I can do that one lovely combo I like that only works in burnout

[fast zephyr]

since i played agains characters that are inmune to jerry

[subtle lotus]

And as an pro players winning against the character its super easy

[fast zephyr]

like finn

[subtle lotus]

Yep

[odd wadi]

Yes

[subtle lotus]

Is not like whatever

[fast zephyr]

i have learned to play without jerry

[subtle lotus]

You lose half of your good moves

And you got almost nothing on disadvantage

That's why it's the worst one

[odd wadi]

You still have forward air, paddle and racket

And the rocket

[fast zephyr]

paddle and racket especially

[odd wadi]

It won't kill but can give up air

[fast zephyr]

even down air can lead to a combo

sometimes...

[odd wadi]

Down air to trap 😂😂

[fast zephyr]

yeahh hahaha

[odd wadi]

Was one of the funniest kills

[subtle lotus]

Paddle its horrible

[fast zephyr]

whaaaat

[subtle lotus]

What would you do with it

[subtle lotus]

I dont think you know how to di both follow ups

[fast zephyr]

paddle + neutral air

readable racket

[subtle lotus]

I think your ignoring the fact that the move has like 20 frames of whiff

[subtle lotus]

Not true

[fast zephyr]

paddle+ down special

[fast zephyr]

wdym

i always do that hahaha

[odd wadi]

Its not though they made it a combo tool

[subtle lotus]

Paddle into racket is not true on anyway

[odd wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009538859417215147/1295955855656620062/Coolest_tj_kill_yet.mp4?ex=67361b31&is=6734c9b1&hm=fe08ec912bfe07ed65bf45c78b4e423f36bd6ce0fef7cef707f1d143b14436ff&

[subtle lotus]

They eliminated that

[odd wadi]

Those 2 clips I love

[fast zephyr]

i mean like using paddle

[odd wadi]

No they didn't. It bounces

[fast zephyr]

and read a racket

its not that hard

[odd wadi]

Yeah you can control it in air too.

I fly across the stage for that racket hit

[subtle lotus]

Ain't that good the whiff frames on paddle are way to much

[fast zephyr]

LMAOOOO

HAHAHAHA

that was a good one

[subtle lotus]

And if your opponent has like 105% they can di side air and up air

[odd wadi]

Thank you

[fast zephyr]

how do u record the game

[odd wadi]

GeForce Experience i have the bit rate almost maxed for quality

[fast zephyr]

the paddle must be used reading the opponent

[odd wadi]

Ultra wide gamer

[fast zephyr]

otherwise is trash i must say

[fast zephyr]

damn

[subtle lotus]

That's what im talking about

[fast zephyr]

nice pc i guess

[subtle lotus]

You first need an read to hit paddle

Like an 50/50 or smth

Then when you hit it

[fast zephyr]

i mean

[subtle lotus]

You have 4 options and all of them are unconsistent

[fast zephyr]

have you ever fail to a paddle read?

[odd wadi]

You gotta use it and learn

[subtle lotus]

No

[odd wadi]

You just refuse to use it

[subtle lotus]

No

[fast zephyr]

and?

paddle read are hard to whiff haha

its more like a 90% to hit

and a 10% to fail

the only way you can dodge a paddle read is to up dodge

[odd wadi]

Even when I think they're gonna dodge behind i just float backwards a bit and let it go

[fast zephyr]

but most of the players do not dodge up

[odd wadi]

I never use it grounded

Almost never.

[subtle lotus]

I dont stop using paddke

Bc atleast its easy to get an read from it

And its some cheap dmg

[odd wadi]

This is your problem. It's all you know so nothing else works.

[subtle lotus]

But then i can't follow up

Its really unconsistent

[odd wadi]

Forward air?

[subtle lotus]

Is not all Ik

I got masters 1 bc I found an new way to set up projectiles

[odd wadi]

If they DI properly at high percent it won't hit but it hits if they dont

[subtle lotus]

That's what i was saying

Paddle its easy to punsih

Ain't that good

And also don't give you any compensations after hitting it

I found an good set up for him

And thats all

That's how i got masters 1

And il make an new one

[fast zephyr]

i thought that before

[odd wadi]

I don't have the problem often but if you're that high in ranked you should've found answers for yourself by now

[fast zephyr]

but now that not that true at all

[subtle lotus]

For me its true

I fight a lot of good people

And paddle its just not viable

[fast zephyr]

ive been playing against top tnj, and they almost never get punished

[subtle lotus]

Set up projectiles and look for reads it's good

[odd wadi]

We will see mid season what mid-season patch does.

[subtle lotus]

But not consistent as the character is

[fast zephyr]

you can get punished if you charge the attack

like too much

[subtle lotus]

Its really easy to punish them

[odd wadi]

Only time I get punished for it

[fast zephyr]

but like 1 second its allright to do a read

[fast zephyr]

nuh uh

[subtle lotus]

You can punish easy if he whiffs

Or charge

[fast zephyr]

1 second charge its more than enough

charge 2 seconds and youll get punished

[subtle lotus]

I alr know how to use my character

I'm talking about whiff paddle

Its easy to punish

If you fail an read

[odd wadi]

It doesn't sound like it if I'm being honest.

[subtle lotus]

Paddle on whiff its easy to punish

[odd wadi]

I don't expect you to know everything but you just kinda deny anything we say

[subtle lotus]

I lit fought all the top 10 on the game

And won

With T&J

I dont need an guide

[fast zephyr]

as i said, i fail 1 read out of 100 i do

[subtle lotus]

Ik everything bc I was they guy who lapped the paddle loop on season 2

And share it here

[fast zephyr]

its the way you use the paddle imo

[odd wadi]

That doesn't mean much nobody is perfect. Being top player doesn't mean you can't lose

[subtle lotus]

I'm talking about the guy facing T&J

Is not to hard to punish him

Its really easy

[fast zephyr]

mmm

[subtle lotus]

Being top player mean that your good, if you win an top player that means that your on his same lv or superior

Bruh

[fast zephyr]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/786408928589512745/1305235761393831946/image.png?ex=67363f87&is=6734ee07&hm=e4dafa2c913f14cd0d36d284c133dcd1d6908c6fad7ec00e434dd659d7e1e794&

[odd wadi]

You could also get lucky they could have a bad day, could be a bad matchup for them many factors in it

[fast zephyr]

@subtle lotus

[subtle lotus]

Yes

That's good

[fast zephyr]

one of the last top ive win

[subtle lotus]

I fought top 1 arya

[odd wadi]

I was gold Jason and beat a masters. My Jason isn't anything to brag about. It happens.

[subtle lotus]

Since that day i hated arya with my heart

[odd wadi]

Last season not this season

[subtle lotus]

Masters is not an rank to say your an pro player

If you grind enough it's easy to get into masters

You need to focus on the global top 50

[odd wadi]

Its really not that easy

[subtle lotus]

It was for me

[odd wadi]

You need the knowledge and skill and regardless of it. That was a whole 2 metal ranks

[subtle lotus]

Well I alr got the knowledge from other platform figthers

So it waesnt an problem for me

[fast zephyr]

wich ones

i like fight games

[subtle lotus]

Brawhakka and a lil bit of smash ultimate

[fast zephyr]

brawlhalla is soo good man

i was rayman main

[subtle lotus]

But i play traditional and anime fighters the most

[subtle lotus]

I was an tryhard scythe main

[fast zephyr]

damn

[odd wadi]

👀Rayman

[fast zephyr]

yup

[subtle lotus]

I always use the hardest stuff on fighting games

I saw an video when they said T&J was the hardest character ig

At the game launch

So thats why i main him

[fast zephyr]

not because some say tnj is difficult to use really means it

[subtle lotus]

But yeah i only play fighting games on genetal

[fast zephyr]

i think you must see who is difficult to play

[subtle lotus]

Idk i waesnt an mvs player on that moment

[odd wadi]

Velma is the hardest to use

[subtle lotus]

I'm talking about s1

Day 1

[fast zephyr]

FR

HAHHAHAA

[subtle lotus]

That was the first video i saw

So i start playing T&J and i liked him

And more bc of his set ups

[odd wadi]

Yeah after Beta she's been hard to use.

[subtle lotus]

And reads

In fgcs I always pick the 50/50, set up and read character

Its the best one

[odd wadi]

I like T&J so I play them but I've never played puppet characters prior. If not for them I'd be a Bugs bunny player

[subtle lotus]

I was an tryhard scythe main bc got no true combos

All reading and 50/50

So skillfull

Oh yeah

[fast zephyr]

ive played brawlhalla, mkx, mk11, smash bros, but the brawl one

it was from the wii

the recent one, is kinda different

[subtle lotus]

I played an ton of fgcs

[fast zephyr]

i dont really like it that much

[subtle lotus]

I think il go play rivals 2

And try an more competitive game

Platform figthers

Like meele

[odd wadi]

SF, Smash bros, MK, Nicktoon brawl??, KoF, GGS, GBFV

Melee is an L

Game so old

[subtle lotus]

Bro thats wild

Meele its an pick game

[odd wadi]

Its not balanced or competitive like they claim. Competitive would be having more than just Marth fox Jigglypuff and Roy be played

[subtle lotus]

Competitive

Quick

The movement

And all on that game

Its really skillfull

[odd wadi]

That doesn't make it competitive it's just got super sweaty players that can't move on. That game came out like 2004

Its such a broken mess but they love it.

[subtle lotus]

Well maybe rivals 2

[odd wadi]

Brawhalla and Rivals are better examples of comp platform fighters

[fast zephyr]

what is rivals?

[odd wadi]

Rivals of Aether but it's only on PC

[fast zephyr]

ohh

[odd wadi]

Platform fighter for competitive furries

[fast zephyr]

never heard of it

but it looks cool

[odd wadi]

Its been out probably close to a decade. People were saying it'd kill this game

Just point and laugh

It is good though

[fast zephyr]

looks like it

didnt we were talking about tnj?

lmao

[odd wadi]

I'm cool with it 😂 I typically am against most of the people here

They want buffs and I don't think much if anything is needed for the character. So I just read most of the time now

I talk more with my Jason brothers

[fast zephyr]

i agree with you

its totally fine now

perhaps is difficult to use

but thats why i use it most of the time hahaha

[odd wadi]

I don't want the character to be OP. I don't wanna get gutted because people over hate. I just got lucky I didn't rely on paddle stuff a ton when we got nerfed.

[odd wadi]

I think that's what it is.

They're not used to having to use the full kit because they've decided x y and z moves are trash or super niche

Trap is the weakest move but it's so fun and good when you learn to force it.

[fast zephyr]

fr

[subtle lotus]

Bro the character its fine and kills lit at 150 and 180

And got lit no combos

Bro lit no character got those features even velma

[fast zephyr]

i mean

i know it kills most of the time at 130 or 150

but is easy to deal that damage

[subtle lotus]

He dont kill at 130

Its 150 and 180

[odd wadi]

Not mine

[fast zephyr]

paddle + down special does

im pretty sure of it

[subtle lotus]

Good di exist

[fast zephyr]

what is di

[subtle lotus]

Down special has no knocback

Wait you use mouse trap?

[odd wadi]

Well yeah but that's why it's taking you long to kill and you're not using the moves that kill fast

[subtle lotus]

That's stupid

You can dodge mousetrap

[fast zephyr]

oh nvm

[odd wadi]

Mixup

[fast zephyr]

i mean

neutral special

[subtle lotus]

Paddle don't combo into n special

And jerry kills at 200

[fast zephyr]

it does

[subtle lotus]

That got eliminated

[fast zephyr]

thats is one of the 3 ways to kill

[subtle lotus]

You lit don't play the game

Paddle don't combos n special

And second

N special only kills at ledge

And if you fail you got free disadvantage

[fast zephyr]

i might be wrong sorry

neutral special

is the

[subtle lotus]

And dair it's just better

N special its jerry shot

[fast zephyr]

lmao

sorry

i meant the attack

[subtle lotus]

Also paddle into up special

[fast zephyr]

that chases jerry

[subtle lotus]

Its diabke

[odd wadi]

You meant racket?

[subtle lotus]

Diable

[subtle lotus]

Diable

[odd wadi]

Or the down attack or down tilt

[fast zephyr]

im not that good with attack names

[subtle lotus]

Kills at 180 and 150

With good di

Considering the stages and character

Also position that's the average

Also having no combos and having the worst disadvantage

And being so light lit dying at 50 like normak

Normal

[fast zephyr]

i wanna play against you guys haha

[subtle lotus]

And people still says he dont need buffs

[odd wadi]

Don't know what to tell ya fam. If you're lucky you'll get a buff for paddle or something but I seriously doubt it.

[subtle lotus]

Bro play the game for the sake of god

[odd wadi]

Would be fun i leave work in an hr and a half

[subtle lotus]

Play T&J against one pls one good player

[fast zephyr]

dm me later!

[subtle lotus]

And you'll see truly hell

Hell

All of the weaknesses that I mention will shine like the sun on an real match

[fast zephyr]

i just send you my match against a top 20 arya

2-0 tho

[odd wadi]

I generally have an easy time on T&J. Jason is when I'm struggling or not having as much fun

[subtle lotus]

Bro what season was that match?

[fast zephyr]

last season

you can see the tnj skin halloween

[subtle lotus]

So it doesnt count

Play this

This is season

[fast zephyr]

what is the difference?

[subtle lotus]

And you'll see what im talking about

[fast zephyr]

he didnt get buffed

or nerfed

[subtle lotus]

The meta and his position on it

Is not the same

Oh no no no

Hes bottom tier now

[fast zephyr]

oh

[subtle lotus]

Lit bc of this

[fast zephyr]

i just checked

and im top 4 haha

[subtle lotus]

All character needed an change to adapt to the update

[fast zephyr]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/786408928589512745/1306366570846490686/image.png?ex=6736682d&is=673516ad&hm=08f78eb86a385266a4c9ae2efd22c98a566af32422b2acf9d5e41b996079c300&

[subtle lotus]

Idc i lit speedrun to plat in 1 match

Il get masters in 1 hour

[odd wadi]

Mad crazy

[subtle lotus]

Oh your top 4 with plat 2?

Oh it would be easy

I got into plat in 1 game

[fast zephyr]

its because of the rank reset

i havent even played that much haha

i win 2 games i think

[subtle lotus]

I win 1 game

[fast zephyr]

nice

[subtle lotus]

One more and im top 1 bruh

This is so sick

Hahahahh

[odd wadi]

I'm at 12 games this season

[subtle lotus]

But yeah winning with him its still really difficult

You just need to play against an pro player even if they know are bronce

@fast zephyr You need to check T&J current state and you'll see this character needs some drastic changes

Play more and get clapped more😭

I didnt got clapped bc i played like 3 games

I won 1 with T&J

Win 1 with Bugs

And 1 with Agent smith

[odd wadi]

43.4% win rate for T&J players as a whole is crazy 😂😂😂

Too used to paddle and the followups from that I guess. Given we had it basically forever it makes sense everyone freaked out about it being removed

That win rate fell off a cliff though

[fast zephyr]

i am

[odd wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/454072304331390989/1306368372597854218/Screenshot_20241113_152101_Chrome.jpg?ex=673669db&is=6735185b&hm=bb34be3883cb7400b460bf71a11ac6c044acb0ccc0997ce4697b2544a0e92dc0&

I think that is what he meant and why he feels so strongly about needing a buff and being F tier

Think it's just being glued to the old playstyle. Though I'm a very reactionary person so I don't play the same way vs everyone

[odd wadi]

^

[fast zephyr]

wow

i never see that before

[odd wadi]

Right??? That T&J win rate really dropped

[fast zephyr]

yeah

jesus

[odd wadi]

It was between like 50%-55% before I think

In ranked 2v2 it's 53%

Every other modes it's like 43-45%

Ranked and unranked.

Think most people aren't understanding how to play them outside of 2s then

[fast zephyr]

i just play against a batman

kill him one and surrender lmao

[odd wadi]

I hate batman so much but that's Jason speaking

[fast zephyr]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/786408928589512745/1306370525052014662/image.png?ex=67366bdc&is=67351a5c&hm=377c9df522a0a4daa6d6cc0760a1850981b3cc8a0f8e59274f54c43ab77b5d6a&

poor guy

[odd wadi]

As T&J they're generally just a play thing

[odd wadi]

You hurt him 😂

[fast zephyr]

fr

[odd wadi]

#clips message

That's my favorite combo and it's (almost) guaranteed during burnout. That one he just messed up trying to dodge cancel and hit me

[fast zephyr]

wow

crazy combo

[odd wadi]

Its so fun 😂 (when you can get it)

One more 🙏

[odd wadi]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009538859417215147/1279537060096512021/samurai_jack_L.mp4?ex=67365c3f&is=67350abf&hm=76762ca9d80c533b44a62e31b29b415279008cfec995345618acdc9ff1dede98&

[fast zephyr]

i watched the entire video

poor samurai jack

the way he ends the game at the end lmaoo

[odd wadi]

This was when I really hated him too I was confused why he did it but made my ranked day easier

You ever get people with that off cooldown trap?

If they rush you while.low.you can go into paddle

Its lovely. They give me toast or give me clap emoji or GGS when I do stuff with trap and it makes me happy 😂

I've earned their respect

[fast zephyr]

me too

its like it impress them haha

i used to use trap with skywalker

the trap falls and gets the enemy

is so fun

[odd wadi]

No way 😂

I never would've thought

[fast zephyr]

yeaah

its way too funny

since its a never used thing

enemies never expect that move

[odd wadi]

So it falls to the floor like normal, then it triggers right away or it lands on them?

[fast zephyr]

mmm

i remember watching a video about it

lemme search

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWD-eHhTY88

@odd wadi

this guy really knew how to play tnj

hope he comes back soon

[odd wadi]

That was beautiful

[fast zephyr]

right?

[odd wadi]

I loved the one on Harley and the almost perfect shaggy clip

[fast zephyr]

yeahh

[odd wadi]

That Steven one was 🥰

[fast zephyr]

that shaggy one shouldve totally hit

[odd wadi]

The game didn't wanna ruin the Shaggy player's life like that.

He'd have never been the same after that

[fast zephyr]

fr haha

i would have uninstalled after that

[odd wadi]

Gonna have to try out the air walker trap

[fast zephyr]

its kinda hard tho

fun, but hard haha

[odd wadi]

I love going for it anyway. I risk my rank for it idc 😂

Not like I'm gonna be a millionaire for hitting the highest ranks anyway

[coral turtle]

bruhh when are we getting that cowboy skin

[odd wadi]

Big facts

[dusty nova]

That's be a good one I want tom with the yellow tux and hat it's a classic

[coral turtle]

we need a classic tj skin

with the old designs and that old tv filter on them

easy legendary skin

[dusty nova]

I mean orange and green with a yellow hat tux as a tom skin 🤝

[dusty nova]

#clips this skin would be gold

[fast zephyr]

We need a legendary skin, with silvester and tweety

As tom and jerry

[dusty nova]

I honestly wanted the pirate tnj skin to have a skin animation at start of match or The paddle tom has to be like a sword instead like how wonderwoman has a chainsaw sword fr part a skin

[cyan whale]

What about Jerry’s cousin?

[sturdy yarrow]

It's so shite that everyone whined about Tom and Jerry's tech chase loop but Harley has the exact same thing off of her most broken button and it's all fine

[fast zephyr]

yeahh

not only harley tho

https://x.com/i/status/1856737823287586931

arya too

[cyan whale]

A lot of characters have brain dead easy tech chases

The tech roll change is exactly what I asked for, so finally you have to commit to covering only 2 of the 3 options instead of just easily covering all 3

[odd wadi]

I don't like it as it is tbh.

Feels like they'll never make it a good system for bigger characters

[cyan whale]

Oh yeah larger characters are still screwed

But that really only applies to IG, Jason, and Garnet

[odd wadi]

I am Jason

There we go

[subtle lotus]

Lit agent smith, Stripe and harley exist

Also batman can abuse of that mechanic

Better than T&J

T&J was nerfed bc he was the most difficult character to understand and punish

Like you really need to know how to play the game to counter him

[hollow flax]

He was nerfed cause he had a “loop” people complained about wdym?

[hollow flax]

Not really it’s more just a knowledge check type of character with understanding how Jerry works and that you have to kill him.

[subtle lotus]

Then when they nerf that

They continue trash talking even more

And they nerfed him like 3 more times after removing loops

Now his trash

I'm sick of it alr

[hollow flax]

I think the second time was people complaining about another “loop” with some characters after the jump branch removal.

[subtle lotus]

Then they remove more stuff and shadow nerf corks

Also giving no compensations btw

[hollow flax]

they shadow nerfed corks?

[subtle lotus]

He lit kills at 150 and 180

And all of his combos were killed

Also he has 0 kill confirms

Lit the only character with properties

Along side of having the worst disadvantage

And dying at 60

But pfg just wants t&j dead

That's all

[hollow flax]

Ok him having no kill confirms was cause they removed jump branch to get rid of that “loop”. They don’t really know that the character lost kill confirms. Just like they don’t know how bad jake is rn

that is a problem though. It seems their team is so small that they end up just neglecting a ton of characters. Or at least some

[raven onyx]

Midseason give us more kill power plzzzzz

[cyan whale]

His only guaranteed kill confirm now is dair to uair

T&J is just a few key buffs from being a high tier. All they need to do is give him consistent kill confirms

Jab 1,2,3 -> dtilt should be a 100% consistent kill confirm and it just isn’t

Paddle -> uair should also be a 100% consistent kill confirm and it isn’t

They could even adjust the launch angle on Jerry shot so that Jerry shot -> Jerry racket more consistently combos across more ranges and angles

Then Jerry shot -> Jerry racket -> uair could also be a consistent kill confirm

For the record, I think the current kill power of T&J is fine. He doesn’t need more kill power. Giving him consistent kill confirms would be enough. But the kill power of like half the cast needs to be weaker. There’s no reason why anyone except Jason should be killing at under 80% without an edgeguard

[coarse drift]

This speed makes them feel great honestly

Just need a better kill confirm only real bad thing I’m noticing

[odd wadi]

Agreed

[hidden verge]

New TnJ loop?

[fast zephyr]

not yet

[hidden verge]

I sleep

[subtle lotus]

They killed every combo aspect from him

Theres nothing here

[subtle lotus]

Bro he kills at 150 and 180

[hidden verge]

I know

I’m just coping

[hidden verge]

I agree

Our best kill confirm

Is like

Paddle into down tilt

[subtle lotus]

That kills at 180 and 150 depending on stage, di and character

Lit the most unconsistent kill move in an platform fighter

[subtle lotus]

You lit don't play platform fighter that's just yapping

[odd wadi]

T&J is fine homie.

[raven onyx]

If you call killing like 150 fine you need your brain checked

[odd wadi]

I don't know how you're killing at 150 or higher I think y'all were just carried and without the carried stuff y'all don't know how to play the character.

[raven onyx]

TnJ are lightweight
Many characters can nullify their projectiles
Weak Kill Power

[odd wadi]

I don't like that second part but it's not a big problem to me. Finn is really the only one I have issue with on that. The other 2 things don't bother me. I don't really feel the weak kill power. Admittedly I don't pay too much attention to their damage once they hit 100 because I know they're dying anyway.

My kill move is typically trap, fishing pole, trash can lids, down tilt, racket and forward air so I don't see how or why y'all say low kill power. Edit: Jerry rocket as well. Frying pan too

Especially the other guy taking about 180

That seems like exclusively an IG kill number

[odd wadi]

💯

[cyan whale]

I like how any time you show up to disagree with me, you always try to pit me as some rookie who’s brand new to platform fighters as if I haven’t been playing competitive Smash for over 10 years

[odd wadi]

He does that to everybody that disagrees dont worry about it

[cyan whale]

I know

[odd wadi]

If it's not his platform fighter xp, it's because he's always fighting topp 100 players and anyone less than that isn't as good so can't tell him otherwise

He knows the character to the fullest

But also thinks everything that isn't paddle isn't a good move

[subtle lotus]

You dont know how to play the character

[odd wadi]

Says the one whining that the character is F tier 😂😂😂

[subtle lotus]

You lit only can kill on 80 to 100

Then you can di every follow up or kill confirm

So its useless

That's why most of the time you need to stack 150 or 180 for an 1 hit kill confirm

[subtle lotus]

Ofc he is

Ignoring the fact of his unconsistent and weak kill power

Your forgetting about he has no combos

He has the worst disadvantage in the game

25 frames of whiff on uncharged paddle

20 frames of whiff on dash attack

Worst disadvantage in the game

3rd lightest character in the game, lit dying at 70

[odd wadi]

Yeah that defensive dynamite is soooo useless

[subtle lotus]

And then?

What you have that isn't dynamite

Nothing

[odd wadi]

Jerry beating 90% of the roster moves is bad defensively too huh

[subtle lotus]

And dynamite is not that good

[odd wadi]

You're just not good fam 👀

[subtle lotus]

Jerry dont beat any roster your out dated

Every character can quick one shot jerry

While they are in the air

Also they added an new perk

That give you 2 seconds of armor after parrying an projectile

[odd wadi]

Who is really out here parrying Jerry??

[subtle lotus]

Jerry isn't an problem

[odd wadi]

Nobody even uses parry

[subtle lotus]

You can one shot him so easily

Jerry was an problem till they gave an tool to almost every character to one shot him

In 2 seconds

You cant spam jerry now

You need to camp

[odd wadi]

If you're losing Jerry you're missplaying a lot

[subtle lotus]

I dont

Bc I dont throw him to the enemy

Now every character can just one shot him so quick in the air

And corks are useless while your in the air

So it doesnt matter

[odd wadi]

Because you were losing him a lot. There's no reason for you to stop doing something that was working

[subtle lotus]

I didnt bc im not playing him

Ik my character weaknesses

I lit reach masters 1 with him last season

And winned some pro players

I'm telling you that he's trash

People are just bad at this game bc they are casuals

So they start whining

Then when its about banana guard or harley queen

[odd wadi]

None of that means anything when you're whining the character is bad because they lost one combo tools and a loop.

[subtle lotus]

An top tier or smth like that

[subtle lotus]

They lost every combo tool

[odd wadi]

Not at all true it's just the one you know.

[subtle lotus]

Nope

They nerfed up tilt into jab

Reset

Even if they make paddle useless making it not canceling

[cyan whale]

You mean they removed the loop

And all forms of it

[odd wadi]

^

[subtle lotus]

No

Jab resets

[cyan whale]

Paddle to jab

Paddle to Jerry shot

[subtle lotus]

He didnt got anything

[subtle lotus]

Paddle to jab

[odd wadi]

He didn't need to get anything they've got other combos

[subtle lotus]

Nope

Jab 1 into d tilt

[cyan whale]

Racking up damage with T&J isn’t the issue. The issue is simply that his kill confirms are inconsistent and DI dependent

[subtle lotus]

That's the only true combo they have, then all of them are unconsistent

[cyan whale]

If they were consistent, T&J would be a high tier

[subtle lotus]

And thats why he's bad

Theres no unconsistent character in this game

And having an character with this unconsistency

And lack of kill power bc the di power on this game

Makes him really bad

With his other weaknesses

[odd wadi]

This sounds like a being used to having cheesy gameplay problem

[subtle lotus]

Like every character here just kills at 105

[cyan whale]

He’s still mid tier

[subtle lotus]

Nope

[subtle lotus]

Nah bro, he's F

[cyan whale]

You’re F tier

[subtle lotus]

Even velma has better ways to confirm

And combo

[cyan whale]

For complaining so much

[subtle lotus]

Tell me why velma it's f tier

And T&J dont

Why?

[cyan whale]

Have you even tried playing Velma?

[subtle lotus]

Bc Tom and Jerry its the most hated character in the game

[odd wadi]

If you're lucky they'll buff him off of the terrible win rates but I don't see it being a buff that'll benefit you

[subtle lotus]

Nobody wants to aceppts that he waesnt that good

[odd wadi]

Was very good*

[subtle lotus]

I want an buff that benefit the reads and 50/50's

That's all i have been wanting from him

Like an bugs bunny like change for him

[cyan whale]

The problem was that he was an S tier before when he had a brain dead easy infinite and when they removed it, they didn’t compensate

[subtle lotus]

Bugs got every tool to make some insane dodge reading sequences and mix ups

[odd wadi]

Racket into bounce into Jerry shot with a cork read is a 50/50 read you could get already

[subtle lotus]

Yeees

The paddle loop was carrying the percentage

Comboing into an kill confirm

[cyan whale]

Like I can recognize that T&J isn’t a high or top tier

[subtle lotus]

He couldn't confirm before

[cyan whale]

But he’s not the worst character in the game

[subtle lotus]

I'm not saying his the worst

But he could be one of the worst

Like your ignoring the fact

That having an really light character and having those struggling issues with killing

[odd wadi]

You've said they were multiple times

[subtle lotus]

With led T&J on situations like the opponent has 180 and you can die at 70

[cyan whale]

Yeah if you’re playing against Jason or IG

[subtle lotus]

F tier is not like the worst of the worst

[subtle lotus]

No

[cyan whale]

Dude there aren’t many tiers to this game

[subtle lotus]

If your playing like most of the cast

Its really easy to die with him

[odd wadi]

The character does so much already and giving them super consistent combos on top of it will have them dominating the game as they were for so lomg

[subtle lotus]

He doesn't does so much

The projectiles can be just dodged and thats all

I just want dodge reading tools

And atleast one kill confirm that worka

[cyan whale]

There’s like 6-7 S tiers, half the cast is A tier, a handful of B tiers (including T&J), and then there’s Velma, Marvin, etc

[odd wadi]

And people won't use the other moves and they still don't after the nerf. It's just Jerry shot spam for most of them

[subtle lotus]

Works

[odd wadi]

Those good Marvin's are wild though

[cyan whale]

Like yes objectively speaking, T&J is in the lower half of the cast

[subtle lotus]

Tell me

Who's the worst character in the game for you

@cyan whale @odd wadi

[cyan whale]

It’s still Velma

[subtle lotus]

Why?

[odd wadi]

Velma and Marvin

[subtle lotus]

I want you to tell me everything

And i can do some comparisons

[odd wadi]

Velma has tons of end lag and almost no combos compared to beta and closed Alpha

Just hard to use and not worth the effort

[subtle lotus]

I'm talking about right now

[odd wadi]

Would've said Jason a few weeks ago but I needed to change how I played him

[subtle lotus]

Jason it's super good now

[cyan whale]

She has the weakest kill power in the game with her confirms not even killing light characters at 130, she practically has no combos, her projectiles don’t work properly, she has the slowest frame data in the game (even slower than Jason and IG), she has no tools to get the opponent off of her in close range, and there are several characters that hard counter her projectile centric gameplan

[subtle lotus]

Saying jason it's the worst it's really crazy

[subtle lotus]

She don't have the weakest kill power

[odd wadi]

Play him then and come back to tell me how it goes

[subtle lotus]

She can lit confirm with jab jab down special down special then up air

[cyan whale]

And that doesn’t kill until 140 and doesn’t work on DI away

[subtle lotus]

It works

Dodge jump down special

Bruh

Confirms on jason at 80%

🤡

[cyan whale]

That’s Jason

[odd wadi]

😂😂😂

[cyan whale]

Everything works on him

[odd wadi]

Everything works on Jason

[subtle lotus]

T&J kills at 150 light characters

[cyan whale]

Paddle to uair with T&J is 100% consistent on Jason regardless of DI

[subtle lotus]

I did it with Jason bc he was an heavy weight

[cyan whale]

Because he sticks his arms out

[subtle lotus]

Is not consistent if the enemy reaches 100%

Also you can start di'ing up air till your at 75%

But you will get hit by side air

If your at 100%

You can di up air and side air

[cyan whale]

I’ve literally landed paddle to uair on Jason at 100 and killed

On DI away

[subtle lotus]

Bc they didn't di correctly

Is not di away

[cyan whale]

DI away on paddle is the correct DI

[subtle lotus]

No

You can follow the di with paddle remember

To avoid up air you need to di upwards then s di sidewards

To avoid both hits

[cyan whale]

I’m saying that paddle to uair works on Jason at 100 regardless of his DI. DI up makes connecting uair even easier

[subtle lotus]

First you s di away, after the paddle releases di upwards then change direction sidewards

[subtle lotus]

You need to do an sequence of di

[subtle lotus]

This right here

[cyan whale]

Yea and Jason still gets hit by uair

He’s too big

[odd wadi]

I can confirm I get hit by everything

[subtle lotus]

Maybe he could di it if don't work on 100, on 110 will work 100%

[cyan whale]

DI away, you hit his hand. DI up, you hit his feet

[subtle lotus]

Every character can di up air and side air depending on weight and hitbox

Its around 100-110

[subtle lotus]

I'm not talking about di away and up

[subtle lotus]

This.

[cyan whale]

You said to DI paddle up

[subtle lotus]

Upwards

Side up

If you didn't understand

Then change your direction to di away

[cyan whale]

If you DI the final hit of paddle up, then uair will hit Jason’s feet

I don’t see how you’re not understanding what I’m saying

[subtle lotus]

Let me check

[cyan whale]

Regardless of how you Di the final hit of paddle, you can always land uair on Jason because he’s too big

[subtle lotus]

Nope

I cant

I said it

If jason its at 100

The paddle let's him at 110

So the di its stronger and won't connect the last hit

[odd wadi]

This is crazy

[subtle lotus]

Let me send you an clip

Wait

[cyan whale]

This is some Tod Rodgers level explanation

[odd wadi]

Yeah

[subtle lotus]

The thing is that you need to change di

You need to s di

To get out of the combo

But I dont know if you can do it

You need an real person to s di and change the direction

But he has an really difficult to hit kill confirm

That kills early

But its impossible to hit bc of di and percentage

Racket iad up special jump up air

[odd wadi]

You set the ai to dodge after hitstun and do whatever until you get the result you need

They change di each time

[cerulean cliff]

How do ya'll feel about the Raven MU

It seems her favor to me

[subtle lotus]

Dodge after hitstun change di?

Is not just dodge towards?

[odd wadi]

yeah if not hitting her with a projectile it feels like she'll outstuff

[odd wadi]

the ai never consistently chooses the correct DI so you'll have to do whatever you're trying to multiple times or if its still there turn on the combo counter

[subtle lotus]

Ok

[cerulean cliff]

Legit feels like her bird is just Jerry but better

Improved setplay and she's not losing half her kit if it dies

[raven onyx]

Plus better get off me button

[odd wadi]

that's exactly what it feels like to me too 😂

more annoying with the area control though

but I think jerry just does more

but the bird is a better combo tool

[cerulean cliff]

Jerry definitely hits harder but so much goes wrong when you dont have him

[dusty nova]

Honestly I think toms moves just need buffs like the chees trap killing at over 100 or the fishing pole at before 130 and maybe a down smash kill confirm at over 100 Compete with 90% of the rosters ability to jab kill🤝

[fast zephyr]

tnj is fine fellas

just need 1 more combo and a kill confirm

but besides that, its a very good character

[odd wadi]

fishing pole can kill at 80

minimum

if you let it hit the sour spot you're almost never gonna kill with it and that's on you

sweet spot kills pretty well

good di can make it take a little longer depending on the weight but it kills

[subtle lotus]

Ain't an very good character besides that bro

He still dies at 60 and he has the worst disadvantage in the game

T&J needs more kill confirms and combos

He has 1 consistent combo

And 1 consistent kill confirm at 180

[subtle lotus]

The character ain't that good

I would trade all of his projectiles and rework him

And make him an assassin or smth like that

People can't satisfy with with the fact that he has projectiles

[fast zephyr]

assasin?

a cat and a mouse?

lmao

its fine as a mage

[visual tiger]

I don't see how that's relevant at all

they can be an assassin with a rework

but also like, who even cares that they have little combos and kill late??

their entire kit revolves around stalling lmao

[subtle lotus]

Mah

Nah

Making them an assassin with rush down tools

Would be better

Lit no one has use him like an zoner till they nerfed every combo

They lit deleted every combo from him

He should get reworked

[visual tiger]

I still don't see how people could call him bad

as he is right now

yes, he's undoubtedly one of the lamest, most boring, plain and annoying characters in the game

and you have to play them like you're afraid to even get near anyone else

but he still has the most effective stalling and zoning

[subtle lotus]

Its easy

No character has to kill at 150 and 180

And every character has atleast 6 combos that are consistent

And every character here has atleast one kill confirm at 105%

[visual tiger]

Again, I'm not sure that really matters when you pick TnJ

you're commited to the long haul

[subtle lotus]

And considering the fact that he's so light and dies at 60

[subtle lotus]

Ofc it matters

It matters with every character

Its smth necessary

Why you think they buffed betlejuice on release?

[visual tiger]

less so with the character whose kit is all about "Yeah, you're not getting in"

[subtle lotus]

Betlejuice was bottom tier bc of his kill power

[subtle lotus]

The kit doesn't matter if you miss throw jerry he dies

Every character has an quick one shot for him in the air

And when you lose jerry, your lit the worst character in the game

[visual tiger]

then don't lose Jerry

[subtle lotus]

Its about camping projectiles

And that doesn't give you anything

With this meta every character can safely approach

And counter projectiles

And you have no defensive options

Or rush down options

And no kill confirms

No combos

Die at 60

And lit being the worst character at the game while you wait jerry to spawn again

Hes not good i want an rework bc people will complain

[visual tiger]

The point being, TnJ as a character is designed to never get into that situation to begin with

[subtle lotus]

What are you talking about?

I didnt understand your statement

[visual tiger]

It's like the finn mains complaining about their combos being all about reads, when their kit is now entirely about reading

as TnJ, you should just never lose Jerry

[subtle lotus]

Our kit its about zoning

[visual tiger]

that's what your life is dedicated to

[subtle lotus]

But rick has an zoning kit

And good combos

[visual tiger]

Rick is a combo character, just so happens to have a bunch of projectiles

[subtle lotus]

Lebron its an zoner and he lit destroys you in secs

[visual tiger]

Lebron is not a zoner

[subtle lotus]

Hes lit an mage

[visual tiger]

he sets up 1, MAYBE 2 bouncing balls down

[subtle lotus]

Or let's see

For example joker

And rick

[visual tiger]

they are combo characters

[subtle lotus]

No

They are mage

Mage have combos

[visual tiger]

so?

they are still meant to have several routes and tools at different points to combo together

[subtle lotus]

Any character on an fighting game can't have lit no combos

[visual tiger]

TnJ is simply not built with that purpose

[subtle lotus]

Or bugs bunny