Tom And Jerry

[open crypt]

still the same

superman

still the same

morty

still the same

pfg is a very competent developer...

[raven onyx]

Plus they made Bugs hella sluggish on the ground

[sharp plaza]

You don't know how to read if you think Morty is the same

[raven onyx]

Morty players lack braincells anyway

[dusty nova]

Real

[sharp plaza]

You play TnJ you shouldn't even complain cuz it's a free matchup lol

[dusty nova]

A good bugs can destroy tnjs dawg

Ion know about the current patch bugs tho

[sharp plaza]

We are talking about TnJ Morty

It was a good matchup for TnJ, now that Morty doesn't have weakened is just free

[dusty nova]

I just checked bugs got nothin

In this patch

[raven onyx]

I dont anymore

[dusty nova]

I cc

[subtle lotus]

Is not an free mu

T&J dont win an single character

Now

Hes just f tier

Don't use him

[dusty nova]

I can't help it he's my boi

I need a mvs pfp of tom sitting on the train tracks all depressed

[sharp plaza]

HAHHAHA

Good joke man

[subtle lotus]

I'm not joking

It seems like you didn't used him

[dusty nova]

Tnj beats iorn giant cuz of his projectiles 🤝

[subtle lotus]

Anti projectile

He doesn't won IG

In any sense

Your not facing an good ig

Maybe we could win velma

And thats it

[dusty nova]

Good iorn giants are still cooked I'm aware

[subtle lotus]

No

Ain't no way your saying that

Your atleast gold for saying that comment

[dusty nova]

Maybe you misunderstood 💀

[subtle lotus]

An IG won't lose in any sense to an T&J

[sharp plaza]

You act like TnJ is the worst character while Jake exists

[subtle lotus]

They are at the same tier atleast

[dusty nova]

Good iorn giants can just pull outn Random super armor and kill younear blast zone at 0

[sharp plaza]

Play Jake then TnJ, you are going to stop downplaying your char

[subtle lotus]

Yes

Also they can negate the projectiles with up b spams

[sharp plaza]

Nah good IGs doesn't care about projectiles anymore

Up b and that's it

[subtle lotus]

Alr played him

[dusty nova]

Bro thought I Siad iorn gian was bad

[subtle lotus]

But they got to be at the same tier

[subtle lotus]

You said T&J wins IG

Ain't no way

Burst combos

[dusty nova]

Yeah you gatta spam hella

[sharp plaza]

Downplaying TnJ that hard shouldn't be legal bro

[subtle lotus]

He can kill you into 70 percent or less

[dusty nova]

It's no fun

[subtle lotus]

No, you cant do anything

[dusty nova]

I'm aware dog he's fat

Gatta get him over 200 to kill

[sharp plaza]

Like I agree TnJ is not top tier or high tier anymore but he's not the worst in the game, he has the best projectile in the game and that actually helps him way more than Jake having absolutly nothing

[subtle lotus]

Jake can outplay him

If he just kills jerry

[sharp plaza]

Any char can do that

[subtle lotus]

He lit becames the worst character

Theres no way an character would lose to T&J if they kill Jerry

The character its just gone

Atleast i got into masters 2

And top 20 T&J

Il wait till this character its fairly balanced

They can't kill him

Like they just did

[sharp plaza]

You really are lying bro, like no offense but every single patch you say the same thing, even if TnJ had a 0-70 you should say he's mid tier, gsmvoid mentality

[subtle lotus]

Bro

An character with the worst disadvantage can't be that good

Its simple

Its universal for every fighting game

Also bc he's so light his disadvantage it's even worst

[dusty nova]

Got a funny tnj clip earlier #clips

[subtle lotus]

That clip its dodgeable and non true

But well atleast you got the kill

T&J its just the result of people complains on an non understand character

Nobody khew how to counter him

Nobody khew how to counter their combos

[dusty nova]

I'm aware

[subtle lotus]

And now that the character its finally dead

They are satisfy

And now we got to take the piss

Bc of the horrendous casual player base on this game

[dusty nova]

I knew there was yapping about tnj but I never thought they'd remove the jump cancel

[raven onyx]

Keep spittin

[raven onyx]

They cant deal with cat and mouse...

[subtle lotus]

And the devs are lazy asf

And they cant balance the character without killing him

They lit just remove everything from him

And thought we would be happy

[raven onyx]

Didnt they give a slap on the wrist for the Top Tiers

[subtle lotus]

Besides that everyone its super happy and saying they are really satisfied with all of this changes

Khowing that they buffed some top tiers and good characters also did minimum changes for the top 5's keeping them atleast at s tier

[subtle lotus]

No

They are atleast s tier

[dusty nova]

I'm aware it not a actual combo it was more less the fact I knew everything he was ganna do by game experience and i cooked him from 20 to 110 and killed him in 15 seconds 🤝 The juking and experience is what keeps me alive

[subtle lotus]

Meanwhile T&J an B tier was nerfed again for having an feature that a lot of characters had

[dusty nova]

Yeah

[subtle lotus]

Tech bounce resets and reads, and the top tiers got some that are even better

Also agent smith received no changes

[dusty nova]

Ion think we loose to nebula

[subtle lotus]

Like seriously

[subtle lotus]

Nubia?

He feels horrific

[dusty nova]

Yesss

From what i hear she's slower then bylith in smash

Witch is a statement to be heard

[trim zealot]

She reminds me of Marth. I’ve been labbing with her and she’s got some solid stuff. Mainly jab > neutral special > up angle side special > Nair or up air.

She can start a variation of of side b too.

Or just start it with neutral special.

[subtle lotus]

She feels so wacky and slow

[trim zealot]

I think that’s to balance out the disjoint on some of her moves.

I’m tempted to unlock her. I like the tipper perk.

It’s crazy she costs less gleamium than an epic skin.

But everything costs too much.

[dusty nova]

Taz players don't even combo no more it's just spin

[hollow flax]

Cause spin OP

[trim zealot]

I’ve found the best option against Taz side special is Jerry shot. Since Jerry only gets hit once, he doesn’t die, and knocks Taz out of his special.

Follow up with a tennis ball into side air or up air for extra damage.

[hollow flax]

Yeah without Jerry I just use rocket or drop dynamite

[dusty nova]

The agent smith air jabing me one time and killing Me middle stage after combo him into the blast zone and jerry rocket him at 120
and he doesn't die

Ah yes

Perfectly Balanced as all things should be

[trim zealot]

Agent smith is pretty overtuned right now.

[cerulean cliff]

I never minded him

Obvs the MU is worse because lol balancing

[subtle lotus]

We alr khow that

[subtle lotus]

I would pray to get the agent smith treatment

Now we are like banana guard on season 1

After inf complains

It waesnt banana guard fault

People were horrendous fighting him

And thats the reason why e are gutted

[dusty nova]

Hot take aria still stupid

undogable air walker combo 3 Times from low percent ooo boi

Skilled character

Why they nerfing tom Bruh this is bs

[cerulean cliff]

In#clips is legit how I think you play this character now, it's lame but it's all we got

[open crypt]

You have jerry dinamyte rocket and mouse trap foe that

Also generally the taz combos goes more for read punish and tech chase

[subtle lotus]

Tazz its what T&J was on season 3

Then everyone complained about T&J and let the others get the same stuff

While we got nothing

😕

T&J its an dead characted

Go main smth else

Also the game speed ain't good for the recent changes

Also the changes were horrible and unbalanced

Giving jab an really high punish window

[raven onyx]

I want to actually talk to devs why do they do this

[subtle lotus]

On an slow motion platform figther it's the worst decision wver

Ever

The game feels lame

[trim zealot]

I’m going that route myself soon. Tomorrow, when Nubia is unlockable for fighter currency, I’m probably going to start using her until they buff T&J again.

[subtle lotus]

They are lit doing an speedrun about how fast the game could die

[raven onyx]

They also shadow nerfed Bugs

[subtle lotus]

They are doing the worst things ever to an fighting games

[trim zealot]

This was probably just a “nuclear option” to make sure we don’t discover any new loops.

Still not justified though.

[subtle lotus]

Ofc is not justified

The character got nothing

Also is not an loop

[raven onyx]

I want to smash my head against a wall bc of this stupid decisions

[subtle lotus]

Lit Stripe, Agent Smith, Reindog, Superman can do the exact same thing like T&J

They just hate T&J there's no reason on removing his only combo and kill confirm in gake

Game

Also paddle last hit its horrendous if you are like about of 100% you can di to avoid up air and side air

[trim zealot]

I know. I think people were just fed up with loops from previous patches, and when they found out we could catch their predictable tech rolls, they cried for more nerfs.

[subtle lotus]

So you got to kill at 180 percent with down tilt

[subtle lotus]

Pfg can just make the rolls manual and thats it

[subtle lotus]

Lame game balance

And lame character

Lit our only options to kill are at 150 and 180

[trim zealot]

I agree, if it were like in smash where you can lay on the ground until you want to roll or get-up.

[subtle lotus]

People said betlejuice was d tier bc of his lack of kill power

T&J never had kill power

[open crypt]

Yeah

[subtle lotus]

And even after the recent patch

They are still complaining and saying that we are s tier

[open crypt]

Im a taz main, tnj was my second
And i have jason and harley as pocket

[subtle lotus]

This community its an joke

This is what happens when you listen to your casual community, balancing an game

[trim zealot]

I haven’t seen anyone say that since loops were removed. That’s crazy.

[subtle lotus]

All the other fighting games

Got experienced players and experienced devs

That are atleast top 100 on an fighting game

They khow how the games in general works

And they can identify what is skill issue or if it is an character issue

That's the reason why this game its so trash

Go play rivals 2

And thats all

[raven onyx]

I dont even own a PC

[trim zealot]

If anyone here has played rivals 2, how is it? I’ve played 1.

[subtle lotus]

When the game releases on ps5 or ps4

Or in consoles in general

[open crypt]

They always complain about taz since the beggining

[subtle lotus]

Like in 23 October

[hollow flax]

Now the TJs know how the lebron mains feel. Sadge

or even the Jake mains and the Velma mains or whatever

eventually the whole cast gonna be neglected and then deleted when they shut it down

[trim cave]

Is it me or is tnj nerfed or something, the input feels delayed for me

Ive been noticing that since i have played tnj for quite some time even in beta when i first got him

My hammer isnt consistant so ik somethings up

[open crypt]

yeah
shadow nerf

[open crypt]

no?
as a taz main i can say
tnj suffered worse than lebron
far from worse

maaaaaybe a bit jake
but he can still do some stuff

but lebron?
never
he just got some slaps in the hand, while tnj were executed

[sharp plaza]

No, they nerfed him when he was already the second worst character in the game, velma was the worst by far

And TnJ still better than Jake btw, the downplay of y'all is insane

[open crypt]

lebron second worst?
if you consider thrown ball to the ground and able to grab them again and use them again while able to attack the player and getting a ball and using that ball being the second worst?

then i guess iron giant with his method is low tier

[sharp plaza]

I'm talking about the past, when they nerfed lebron he was the second worst character in all the game, he is alr right now lol

Jake now it's the worst character and lemme tell you, even more than TnJ

People here like to exaggerate they nerfed TnJ when he was high tier (even hardcorefox being the best Tom and Jerry said he was mid high tier) but they all said "They nerfed him when he was bottom 5" lmao

[open crypt]

i mean the first nerfed

even tho it put him a bit down

he was still able

now without jerry and the jumps

he doesn't have any combo game

[subtle lotus]

They nerfed him when he was high mid tier or low and then he became bottom 5

Maybe he could be high b tier

If you camp and zone

[trim zealot]

Maybe in 2s. In 1s T&J have been gutted. Also, why do you think more people saying we’ve been nerfed too much means we haven’t? I’ve never downplayed how good T&J is in my entire time playing this game. These last 2 patches are the only times I’ve ever considered T&J to be below A tier. It’s one thing to remove loops, it’s another to remove most of a characters true combos.

Imagine if Arya lost the ability to ladder combo at all. She would immediately drop from A-S tier to probably C tier, since most of her combos are ladders.

Or Batman losing the ability to cancel jab. Nerfs like these would only remove combos. Mind you, T&J only got a single buff, to racket, across the course of these last 3 or 4 patches.

As soon as Nubia is available for fighter currency, I’m going to stop playing T&J for the first time ever. Until they get buffed, me and many others will or have stopped playing Tom.

[raven onyx]

And they gave a slap on the wrist for the Top Tiers

[trim zealot]

And buffed Harley.

This patch was very questionable.

[raven onyx]

I couldn't even escape the combos Harley got this patch

[hollow flax]

Bruh it was a general comparison lol. TJ and bron are both bad hence the comparison was made

[hollow flax]

From transition from beta to release Lebron went from a strong high tier to a bottom tier similar to TJ here

[trim cave]

Ok so it qas input dely lag or something cuz its normal now

[trim cave]

Was*

[scenic mica]

After the onslaught of nerfs to tnj I picked up Rick and he's pretty fun

Though I do kinda want to go back to Tom and Jerry I loved playing them so much and want to give them a chance again despite not being as good

[subtle lotus]

Hes just d tier, alr tried him

Just dont use him

Even camping is not good

Just wait till they change the character or make an rework

[scenic mica]

Really? I saw a cool kill confirm on 70 that didn't seem impossible iad Jerry shot into iad up special jump air dodge up air

I'm sure getting that 70 isn't the most fun though

[subtle lotus]

Iad jerry shot into up special

Its lit impossible to perform on an normal game

Maybe racket if you play passive

And wait them to approach

Then racket into up special

But even with that he ain't that good

[dusty nova]

Made a funny tnj edit #clips

[coarse drift]

Tom and Jerry d tier is ridiculous

Jerry shot by itself will not let them be that low

I don’t play 1s but there’s no way it’s that bad

[odd wadi]

Agreed

[vapid dew]

I think of Tom and Jerry as a character that resembles finding some infinite combo, but they can still use specials, which makes them somewhat overpowered.

[hollow flax]

They don’t have an infinte combo wdym?

[lost violet]

They barely have a combo now

[coarse drift]

Air downwards Jerry shot into up tilt sair is still a good combo they have

This character more so relies on being as obnoxious with Jerry as possible
And beating people over the head with Dair,up tilt and racket and some occasional zoning to stall for Jerry to come back when the cooldowns almost up

[raven onyx]

Well Jerry is Toms lifeline

[hollow flax]

It’s not so much they don’t have good combos. They have decent combos and strings with some reading involved. But the fact he doesn’t have any reliable kill confirms kinda ruins him imo.

Like paddle into up special rocket was so good

[coarse drift]

I’m a little too used to fighting without him cause I’m always going for snipes

But he’s actually still not that bad without him but your still losing your best move so it sorta sucks

[coarse drift]

Having to do tricks and gimmicks for almost every kill does kinda suck but he does have a kill confirms with raw dair into up air

[hollow flax]

It’s not always reliable though is the thing

[coarse drift]

It’s just one of the many ways this character kills

You gotta get real creative and Jerry’s will have to be sacrificed for an opponents stock

I personally find it fun to come up with different ways to kill based on how my opponents is playing to take their stock

[sturdy yarrow]

Anyone else having horrendous input lag ?

[hollow flax]

More like one of the few ways he kills

[dusty nova]

alr pal

[sturdy yarrow]

Game is dogwater

[dusty nova]

Honestly I thought that maybe it was just me but tom feels slow in places like painfully

On this patch at least

[trim zealot]

Going all in on T&J being dead these last couple patches I see. Glad I’m not the only one pointing it out with my profile.

[dusty nova]

Yeahh

[trim zealot]

This is the only time PFG have convinced me to move off T&J ever. I’ve moved to playing Nubia until T&J get any more buffs, but any nerfs/buffs T&J do get, I will lab out still.

[dusty nova]

Yeah It was fine when they took out the ability to combo mallet with paddle and added end lag to moves but that one patch bro

From balanced to bad

[cyan whale]

Man I just hit the absolutely insane bait on a Batman where I reflected his batbomb batterang and baited him into killing himself off the top

But my capture software didn’t work

[dusty nova]

Oof

[trim zealot]

I’ve done that before as well. It’s funny how even when reflected, it homes in towards Batman.

Most don’t know how to react.

[cyan whale]

He got hit and decided to chase me into the top blast zone and died for it lol

[trim zealot]

Smartest Batman main.

[cyan whale]

God that would’ve been such a good clip to have

[coarse drift]

Alright I gotta go really test out Tom and Jerry in 2s tomorrow because this input lag feels like it comes and goes for some reason

What tier would yall put this character in

[dusty nova]

In 2s he's higher but I think he's a d teir in one's

[coarse drift]

I gotta stop being lazy and go play ones

I need to see for myself

[hollow flax]

In 1s about low tier. Not complete garbage like Jake or Velma but definitely not decent I would say. In 2s I’d say he is mid tier. Really strong against some specific mu but very weak against others

[coarse drift]

1s I can’t say my MMR is too low to give a real opinion in that mode

In 2s I disagree I’d say he’s still high tier Jerry is such a valuable tool that I think a lot of teams really like having it
but the matchups can be really painful

especially if your teammate decided that you’ll have to get all the kills on your own

In other words they should totally give back the jump cancel we won’t do anything nefarious with it

[hollow flax]

Yeah that’s why I put him mid tier. The mu’s, good and bad, kinda even out

[cyan whale]

Going off of win rate in ranked according to tracker.gg, T&J is top tier in 2v2 and mid tier in 1v1

I personally don’t play 2v2 often because I don’t have a dedicated partner

So I can’t really comment on that

[hollow flax]

WR means nothing. It could even consider casual modes

[cyan whale]

But he feels somewhere around upper mid tier in 1v1 to me

[cyan whale]

They don’t. Those are separated

They didn’t used to be

So like I get where the sentiment is coming from

[hollow flax]

Does it cover various ranks in ranked mode?

[cyan whale]

No, it’s just general ranked 1v1 and 2v2 win rate

[hollow flax]

Ok then

[cyan whale]

So like obviously there is likely a difference between playing T&J in gold vs master

[hollow flax]

I mean most players are lower ranked so I don’t think it matters that much

[cyan whale]

I’ve been playing T&J more as I promised I would and while there are certain things about him that are bad, I don’t think he’s a bad character

He just has a handful of matchups that hard counter him

[hollow flax]

Yeah I don’t think he is particularly bad he just isn’t great

[cyan whale]

Like Finn just wins because of his side special

The Garnet buffs have also made that matchup way more difficult than I thought it should be

With projectile shield on her person at 3 stacks of rhythm and the fact that rhythm in general is just a full projectile shield

And the buff to clap just kills at ludicrously low percents especially considering T&J’s weight

But outside of like Finn, Garnet, Morty, and the usual cast of top tiers, T&J does fine against the rest of the cast

[hollow flax]

Oh yes with exception to half the cast he is good

[subtle lotus]

Fine if you dont play against an s tier character

Every character got his own way to deal with T&J

His not an problem anymore

Every character got an way to one shot jerry

[cyan whale]

He is for IG and Jason

[hollow flax]

Tbf those characters struggle against almost everyone

[sharp plaza]

Nah, Jason is pretty good rn and he doesn't have as bad matchups as before, it's just TnJ being TnJ

And also, Morty, he still has a bad matchup against TnJ

[hidden verge]

New loop found boys

Isn’t affected by tech

[hollow flax]

I don’t believe you. What is loop?

[hidden verge]

Gotta gate keep

Or they gon nerf em

[hollow flax]

Then I don’t believe you lol

[cyan whale]

I’ve just been going for the mid percent dair nair tech chase with decent success

But recently I’ve been torn on whether to use 5% or triple dynamite

Because like triple dynamite pretty much guarantees a free recovery

But single dynamite has so many other use cases including helping escape juggles

And having extra dynamite in general is helpful a lot of times, especially for stalling when Jerry dies

But Tom’s recovery is so trash that triple dynamite is still worth it for stopping people from just killing you

[raven onyx]

Were already dead anyway

[cerulean cliff]

Its worse for disadvantage because you only get one stick of it

I stopped using it entirely once it was nerfed from beta

Also are the Halloween skins out yet

I've been rivals pilled all week

[cyan whale]

I liked Rivals 1 better and don’t really have an interest in Rivals 2

[cerulean cliff]

Its cool

And I am pondering how Clairen was allowed to exist in a game without shields lmao

[cyan whale]

Because movement

Which is the same reason why a character like Finn can exist

[coarse drift]

I’ve been a hater on triple dynamite since full release the nerf makes it kinda bad

[cyan whale]

How was it nerfed?

[subtle lotus]

IG solos T&J and jason maybe could lose

[cyan whale]

Wait what? Are you saying IG beats T&J?

[subtle lotus]

IG its an cheese machine theres no way an IG lose to an T&J

[subtle lotus]

Ofc he does

Up b negates every projectile

[cyan whale]

No he does not lmao

[subtle lotus]

He can one shot jerry really easy

Also burst combos into an early kill at 40

[cyan whale]

IG uses up special and you just hit him with dair

[subtle lotus]

That makes no sense

Its an active hitbox

Dont be silly

I fought the top 1 IG

Lonely dripp

[cyan whale]

You can literally hit his hand

[subtle lotus]

Theres no way you win against an good IG

[subtle lotus]

You cant

His holding his car

[cyan whale]

Ok congrats you just got skill diffed

[subtle lotus]

I didnt

You dont have the character atleast at diamond

I'm at masters 1 with him

And i play always against some top players

Ik my character

He dont win

[cyan whale]

Yeah because I haven’t played him this season as much as you

[subtle lotus]

You need to fight against an good ig

That's all

You need experience to talk about it

If you didn't play the game enough

That's on you

[cyan whale]

Alright next time I run into Elektrokills or Hobo or Lonely Dripp I’ll let you know

[subtle lotus]

Ok

You will get 3-0

Atleast i left him on the last stock

Its an really hard mu

You die at 30

And can't use jerry shot

Or any projectile bc of the perk

And up b

Also can go against up b

Got priority and wins bc got better frame data

[cyan whale]

Literally every IG player has said that T&J is a bad matchup but what do they know

[subtle lotus]

Before our nerfs

[cerulean cliff]

In beta, triple bounced along the ground the same way default dynamite does. Now the range is shorter and it fails if you dont racket it after spawn

[subtle lotus]

Those are prepatch IG complains

[cyan whale]

I think you’re overrating how much the nerfs affected T&J

[subtle lotus]

Ain't overrating

[cyan whale]

Like don’t get me wrong, they definitely hurt

[subtle lotus]

The character has no combos now

[cerulean cliff]

Not to mention now they can be reflected when they couldnt before

[cyan whale]

But you’re acting like T&J is low tier now and he’s just not

[subtle lotus]

He lit is

Atleast on 1s

[cyan whale]

Oh really? I actually forgot that it worked like that in beta ngl

[cerulean cliff]

Thats how long ago it was lol

[subtle lotus]

The character ain't crazy or good

[cyan whale]

Nah he’s mid tier

[subtle lotus]

How an character

With no combos

And no kill power

[cyan whale]

The only low tiers are Jake and Velma

[subtle lotus]

Could be mid tier?

[cerulean cliff]

TnJ today in 1s is playable but not solo viable

[subtle lotus]

Jake atleast can kill at 100

Ain't that bad

And he got his combos

[cerulean cliff]

Velma I'm convinced still isnt a character

[subtle lotus]

And some robbery

[cyan whale]

With uair and that’s it lmao

[subtle lotus]

Velma yeah it's better

[cyan whale]

Jake has even less kill power

[subtle lotus]

Ypu can't combo paddle into up air

You can di

Also you can di paddle into side air

He got lit no combos

Your only way to kill its if your at 150 or 180

[cyan whale]

I’m talking about Jake uair

[subtle lotus]

Depending on the character

[cyan whale]

Jake’s only kill move is uair

[subtle lotus]

Up tikt

Up tilt

Kills at 100

[cyan whale]

Only kills with sweetspot

[subtle lotus]

Atleast he can cheese

[cyan whale]

Sair doesn’t even kill at 150

[subtle lotus]

We kill at 150 or 180

[cyan whale]

Bite got nerfed and doesn’t either

Dair basically never kills and got destroyed because auto tech

[subtle lotus]

I'm talking about T&J

[cyan whale]

Horse doesn’t kill until like 170

[subtle lotus]

Jake is at an bad state tho

T&J with those characters are low tiers

T&J needs an rework

[cyan whale]

T&J just needs some consistency fixes

Like his jab being really inconsistent

[subtle lotus]

T&J need combos

And kill power

And thats all

[cyan whale]

He kinda doesn’t need combos ngl

[subtle lotus]

Also giving him an better disadvantage

[subtle lotus]

He lit needs combos, an hard character with no character its lame

[cyan whale]

Like his custom projectile 2-3 hit combos end up dealing like 30-40 and flammable always gives him extra damage

[subtle lotus]

Its like saying rick don't need combos bc its an zoner

[cyan whale]

Rick is barely a zoner

He has laser and half the cast can stand under it

[subtle lotus]

Its really hard to perform tons of dmg with him

You really need to be good with projectile usage

With no combos and kill confirms

That's lit the only way to use him

Hes lame

[cyan whale]

T&J has some kill confirms but they’re just really inconsistent

[subtle lotus]

His disadvantage and weight make him even worse

[cyan whale]

Which is the issue

Like jab 1,2,3 -> dtilt

[subtle lotus]

Jab 3 dtilt its diable

[cyan whale]

Sometimes it just completely whiffs and it shouldn’t

[subtle lotus]

Also kills at 180

[subtle lotus]

Its just diable

[cyan whale]

No it kills at like 130-140

[subtle lotus]

Nope

That kills at 180

[cyan whale]

And this is what I mean by buff jab consistency

[subtle lotus]

Alr test it

Jab 3 into jerry shot

[cyan whale]

Dude I literally killed at like 130 yesterday

[subtle lotus]

Could be an good change

[subtle lotus]

Maybe bc you were figthing an light character

Or your opponent di'ed wrong

If you just di upwards it kills at 180

Or 150

[cyan whale]

You’re only gonna live to 180 if you’re hitting it across the entire stage

DI up can kill you earlier actually

[subtle lotus]

Near the blast zone

[cyan whale]

And you’ll die off the top

[subtle lotus]

Like at 140

And thats still horrible

The character its lame and trash

Our combos are trasy

Trash

[cyan whale]

There’s only like 3 major changes that T&J needs to be good

[subtle lotus]

Our only good tool its jerry shot

But all characters got an way to one shot him

[subtle lotus]

Combos, disadvantage and kill power

Also an speed buff

[sharp plaza]

Gogeta always downplaying his character lol

[cyan whale]

1. Jab needs to be more consistent and not as easy to DI out of
2. The final hit of paddle needs to have less knockback and more hitstun allowing for more reliable follow ups
3. Dair needs to have an earlier cancel window
4. Sair needs to be faster on startup

So I guess 4 things but still

[subtle lotus]

Ain't downplaying

If you dont play the character

Dont talk

[cyan whale]

With those changes, T&J is high tier

[sharp plaza]

You don't play ig and you say that ig wins the matchup lol, good one but that doesn't work

[subtle lotus]

Bro he cant be high tier with his disadvantage state

[subtle lotus]

I dont play him, but I have play the best ig in the world

So that's why i say it

[sharp plaza]

And you lost?

[subtle lotus]

Ofc i did bc he wins the mu

Killing at 40

And negating projectiles

So its lit an good mu for you?

[cyan whale]

He doesn’t want to admit he got skill diffed and matchup checked

[subtle lotus]

Also comboing the burst

To get early kills

[subtle lotus]

You can play an good ig if you want

With T&J

[sharp plaza]

I won against lonely and mets and I can say that IG have a bad matchup against anyone who can camp and has a really good projectile

And TnJ has the best projectile in all the game lol

[subtle lotus]

And check ig by yoursekf

[sharp plaza]

You just got skill diff bruh

[cyan whale]

I will when I eventually run into one

[subtle lotus]

He dont

You cant lit up b

That negates every projectile

Also using the shield perk

[subtle lotus]

Ok prove it by yourself then

[sharp plaza]

You don't need to camp all day and he can't just up b everytime since it's punishable while it ends

[subtle lotus]

And having an true kill confirm with burst

[sharp plaza]

I know about IG more than you lil bro, I actually won against lonely multiple times and against mets with my main nerfed lol

[subtle lotus]

He can just jab and up b

And im dead

[sharp plaza]

I also play IG

[subtle lotus]

Ok

So your an masters 1 or gm IG?

[sharp plaza]

But you don't want to accept that TnJ has good matchups since you don't win anything

[subtle lotus]

I won the top 10 IG

3-0

Consecutively

[sharp plaza]

I'm pretty sure at this point your mind downplays so much that you don't even find anything good from TnJ

[subtle lotus]

Hes good with the correct counterplay

You can just abuse the light weight

[sharp plaza]

Ok tell me a good matchup TnJ has

[subtle lotus]

Also down special into nair

[subtle lotus]

Jake, Velma

Jason

Morty

Rick

Reindog

Marvin

Samurai Jack

Also i feel Ppg

Its an good one

Always win against PPG

And thats all

[hollow flax]

An inconsistent kill confirm isn’t a kill confirm lol

[hollow flax]

Bruh you didn’t mention lebron? TJ wins that MU easily

[subtle lotus]

Oh yeah

Maybe an good lebron could win easily

He got his robbery

[dusty nova]

A fellow tnj clicking salt after getting carried by a shaggy is crazy

Goober tnj

[raven onyx]

We dont accept toxic ones

[dusty nova]

🤝

[raven onyx]

I just hope TnJ get buffed

People are still putting them in S Tier still

[dusty nova]

Witch is just dumb

[raven onyx]

Im questioning how hard is it to punish one move

For them

[subtle lotus]

Jerry shot its lit dodge then one shot jerru

Jerry

Or approach tom

His at disadvantage and he got no more options than to chase jerry to get him back

Tom is running to the direction your rushing

So you could get an full punish if he dont dodge

And if he does you can read and punish him

Also if he dont want to pick jerry back

You can one shot jerry

[hollow flax]

They don’t like paddle cause it anti air, multihit, long ass active hitbox, they be Sitting in hitstun for a bit after getting hit

[lost violet]

Back from part of the Multiversus training grounds thing

They added shielding. Strong maybe on whether or not it actually helps Tom and Jerry

[cyan whale]

I haven’t tried it, but it probably hurts T&J considering he has no grabs and only one armor break

[coarse drift]

Shielding hurts Tom and Jerry a lot since a lot of strong options are from the air

Unless a sequence is found to drain so much shield you would rather get hit

[cerulean cliff]

Oh is it in the game now

Yeah that's a net nerf to TnJ

[raven onyx]

Ami even suprised

Now

[cerulean cliff]

Also love how the video shows a paddle punish into Jerry Nikita like that means anything

[raven onyx]

Is that gonna be a pity buff or summat

[cerulean cliff]

No its the only "combo" he has left

[raven onyx]

Lemme guess its untrue

[cerulean cliff]

Matter of fact if paddle is shielded, Tom probably dies

[raven onyx]

No he explodes

[cerulean cliff]

Wait you can manually parry out of shield

That's actually really stupid

Zoners really cant play the game anymore lmao

[raven onyx]

Any zoner is done for now

[cerulean cliff]

This is such toxic design

And I don't mean just cuz it nerfs TnJ

Sheilds this strong in a game without grabbing is so bad

[raven onyx]

The funny this is they last so long

Now its Shieldversus

[cerulean cliff]

Dash jab out of shield means spacing literally does not matter

[fathom wadi]

Oh my god they added SHEILDS

THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS GAME WAS THAT THEY DIDNT HAVE THOSE

[hollow flax]

Yep now game is completely ground based. No reason to use an air move unless it a grab

[sturdy yarrow]

Yeah with the addition of shields Tom is completely cooked

Batman and Shaggy spamming invincible uppercuts out of shield

[cyan whale]

I main Shaggy and I think shields are probably a bad idea

The whole idea of using movement to avoid attacks is completely lost with shields

And it will absolutely destroy zoners like T&J and Marvin

[hollow flax]

Yeah I mean if zoners could apply good shield pressure it’d probably be fine, but here it seems that there is no thing as shield pressure

There isn’t even an visual indicator for to know if your hitting their shield

[subtle lotus]

If they add the shield

Atleast revert the paddle changes

And add smth like an grab for T&J bc there's no way to get someone out of shield with this character

Lit if they add shielding to the game

And they don't revert T&J changes on paddle

He will be negative f tier

[hollow flax]

Nah

Trust me

I’m a dev

I know what I am doing

I think

[subtle lotus]

Your an dev?

Wut

Just revert the paddle changes and thats all

He won't be that good bc of shielding

But yeah

If they add an command grab on T&J and put it as an perk

@hollow flax

[hollow flax]

Nah paddle combos were busted

Well specifically the loop

But still

[subtle lotus]

He didnt got an loop

Since he was nerf with tech bounce

They need to bring it back

Paddle into jerry shot

If they will implement shielding

Paddle would be useless

Also you can block paddle on whiff and punish, it's lit like 20 frames to punish

[hollow flax]

You can still do it with a read

[subtle lotus]

And jerry shot its shieldable

[hollow flax]

Just more scuffed

[subtle lotus]

But you can't get any follow up

Paddle its useless

Is not fair

Just bring back paddle into jump jerry shot

And jump racket

Also can't cancel paddle on whiff

That's all

[hollow flax]

Join the ever growing low tier club buddy

Or mid tier or whatever

[subtle lotus]

Bro

The character won't be good if they do those changes

But atleast he won't be useless

With shielding T&J would be useless

[hollow flax]

You dont control the game. You don’t have the power.

You can’t influence the almighty devs

[subtle lotus]

I do

I'm masters 1

[subtle lotus]

I did for an short time

But it lasted 3 secs

People started complaining

And they nerf him again

Its impossible to complain about him right noa

[hollow flax]

Then it seems you don’t have the power.

[subtle lotus]

Now

He needs to get back his paddle combos

[hollow flax]

If you had the power of the shaggy mains you’d be top tier forever

[subtle lotus]

And thats all

[subtle lotus]

He won't have any power like the shaggy mains

Remember you can punish paddle and jerry shot

Any T&J movd

Also remember his horrible disadvantage state

And weight

If they don't bring back paddle combos he would be f tier

Atleast you could get an convertion of paddle

If you hit it

As an punish fakeout

[cyan whale]

I still don’t understand why you want to bring back paddle loops to compensate for T&J’s flaws when they can just mitigate his flaws more by other means

They can make him heavier, make his jump higher, increase the knockback on his kill moves, and make the last hit of paddle consistently combo without introducing loops

[hollow flax]

Cause he was good with them that’s why

[cyan whale]

There are other ways to make T&J good without making him toxic

[lost violet]

Like taking away his combo game. That did wonders

[cyan whale]

They have the ability to make paddle a consistent combo tool without introducing loops

But PFG just didn’t do that so idk

[slender matrix]

I like how the TnJ can be good and fun without combos

[keen swan]

PFG probably meant T&J to be the traditional projectile character (mage)

[hidden verge]

He has combos

But no true ones

[cyan whale]

He has some shorter true combos like paddle to uair at low percents, Jerry shot to Jerry racket to uair with the right Jerry angle, dair to nair tech chase at mid and high percents, and cheese trap to any aerial if you’re close enough

Grounded racket can also combo into paddle because it forces a ground bounce

[hollow flax]

None of those are that good

[cyan whale]

I never said they were

I just said that they’re true

They’re all pretty situational unfortunately

Actually, the dair nair tech chase is actually legitimately really good

I’ve literally gotten 60 to death combos from dair nair tech chase over and over again and ending with uair

But it’s definitely way more difficult than the old paddle Jerry shot tech chase

[raven onyx]

Please PFG give us a Buff plz

[cerulean cliff]

If anyone is playing the shields testing ground lemme know how it goes

I have little faith

[cyan whale]

If shields are actually added, T&J is cooked

[cerulean cliff]

They're trying the mode today

If permanent then the game itself suffers so much

[raven onyx]

Their letting us test it if we want it in or not

[cyan whale]

I personally am against shields

We don’t need to copy Smash for everything and slowly become more of a Smash clone

We just need some fine tuning to a lot of characters to make them feel better to play

Doesn’t necessarily have to be buffs

Just QoL changes and consistency improvements

Nerf overall kill power so that it doesn’t feel like you’re just getting cheesed

Killing really early should be exclusive to specifically designed comeback mechanics or specific characters as their archetype

Like Jason

Or any character’s rage mechanic like also Jason, Shaggy, Jack, IG, etc

But like the comeback mechanic shouldn’t be something that kills so early that it feels unfair

And weaken absolutely needs a nerf

It doesn’t feel good to get hit by Batman who applies weaken really easily and then you die to jab at 80

Or Shaggy who does the same thing with rage specials

[dawn iris]

Tom's skin on the future rift event page is a Batman one... right?

[cerulean cliff]

I assume its for Halloween because that's a rift too

[raven onyx]

Im torn rn i want the Bugs skin or the TnJ skin

[dawn iris]

I'm just hoping I can just grind out enough for the TnJ without having to do the rift since i'm far behind due to the hurricane stuff

[fathom wadi]

Who's ready for TnJ to get nerfed again

[sturdy yarrow]

Nothing for TnJ characters cooked his shield breaker is his worst attack

[cerulean cliff]

How's it lookin fellas

[trim zealot]

Are they really going to add shields? I don’t think that’s a good idea given that here’s no grabs other than command grabs, and you can only break shields by expending an opponent’s dodge meter.

It seems like it’ll be a really broken option to me.

I don’t mind it in smash and rivals of aether because shields have their own durability, everyone has grabs, and the games were designed with the mechanic in mind.

[raven onyx]

They said we wanted us to test it first

[trim zealot]

Good.

I don’t think it’s a good idea, given this game has gone up til now with just dodges and parries.

They would have to change a bunch of moves to balance the addition of shields, and even then it’ll be really strong.

[raven onyx]

Im torn on it rn

[trim cave]

The mechanic of shields will ruin the game cuz everything was based around dodges instead of blocking and characters like jason are the only ones to counter this shielding effect compared to super smash bros since every character there has a shield and grab mechanic + this literally has the least punishment since players can go defensive or run away to avoid burn out, in general its a dumb mechanic to have unless u add grabbing mechanics to every character

I just dont see it as a good viable option to add in, dodges and parries were good already but shields?

Nope, last thing we want is iron giant being absolutely busted or worse

[raven onyx]

They did say we wanted the players to test it out to see if they gonna added or not

[trim cave]

Yeah and im hoping that it doesnt

[raven onyx]

It hurts characters more than helps them

[trim cave]

It hurts almost every character thats mage (except for a few)

[raven onyx]

They just keep bullying mages for whatever reason

[trim cave]

And it turns tanks into busted goofy ah characters that land combos more than assassins could ever do

And just to note, super man freeze breath while it freezes projectiles it cant freeze jerry so its a no brainer to shoot jerry to super man

And iron giant has a large hit box and those guys have insane combos that their only weakness is a simple ranged attack

[trim zealot]

Probably people having trouble dealing with projectile characters who were designed to be able to box too. That just got T&J nerfed into the ground, and even Gizmo is no longer the character he once was.

[raven onyx]

Plus TnJ are heavily hurt from this they cant really do anything

[raven onyx]

So people cant deal with projectiles how hard is that.

[trim cave]

Most of the reason i play tnj cuz it reminds me of another character drom ssbu and thats steve from minecraft

From*

[trim zealot]

It wasn’t very hard at all, especially in this game, but people coming in from other games probably didn’t bother to enter with a fresh mindset.

[trim cave]

Shaggies:

[raven onyx]

Ik it isnt hard to deal with projectiles

[trim zealot]

You have to re-evaluate how you play everything in this game to improve, instead of playing this like it’s brawlhalla or smash ultimate.

[trim zealot]

I just meant that I agree with you.

[raven onyx]

My fault

[trim cave]

Brawlhalla is technically garbage and im supeised it alive

Its*

And i played for a good bit

[raven onyx]

It doesnt have buggy things as much as MVS

[trim cave]

It was like really too bland compared to ssbu or multiversus

Hell rivals of ather is better than it

[trim zealot]

It’s free to play, high skill ceiling, and gathered a large audience over time. It also has regular cross overs and updates as a live service, so it’s pretty much a similar formula to what MVS tried to do in beta, but before it was cool.

[raven onyx]

Plus their passionate appeasing to the Casual and Competitive parts

[trim zealot]

For sure. I just got 2 and it’s a blast.

[raven onyx]

I dont have a PC so it hurts me

[trim zealot]

Sorry. It will come to console eventually, just not very soon. Supposed to be late 2025.

[raven onyx]

Ughhhhh mann

[trim cave]

Theres like 1-2 cross overs that basically added a character to the game, the rest is just complete reskins, and as for its mechanics, it dont have much and each fighter is just 2 weapons which has their own certain moves but its not in a good concept enough to be individually constructive

While sure its does release a more heavy combo dopamine, its too bland to play most of the time

[trim zealot]

I agree, but the formula worked/works. The game is still successful enough to keep supporting itself.

[trim cave]

Thats true and i dont understand how either

Especially with the crossovers

Since for that crap to even happen is 2 sided deal

U know how many companies this had to be delt with

Ubisoft, nickelodeon, microsoft, etc

[trim zealot]

I’m sure those licenses don’t come cheap either.

[trim cave]

Exactly

Even rayman too since hes a playable character

Multiversus had a shot and got in, its their job to keep it strong enough for the community and listen to them

If not then it dies

We dont talk about nickelodeon brawl stars

[trim zealot]

MVS will probably lose some steam since Rivals just launched, sadly. I don’t think it’s too late to save the game though.

[trim cave]

Tnj is one of my favorites even during beta and i grown to learn the character and mastered it enough to bend out of it but if u do 2v2 with him you are bound to have jerry at the brink of death almost always due to your team mate not grabbing jerry

Especially with long range stuff that u use a cork for self defense

[raven onyx]

S4 is our last stand for Buffs

[trim cave]

1v1's tnj are very good at

U have 5 different projectiles that can be used for almost any situation

[raven onyx]

Many characters can beat TnJ

[trim cave]

List em

I bet almost all of them are passable

Gizmo is a hard counter tho

But thats mostly what i think can beat tnj comming from experience with at least around 600 wins

Other than that theres some mechanic that one can do unless u tactically get out of the terrible spot u are in

For most characters like shaggy or banana guard are usually in a arc or u can use the fishing rod tactic or if its shaggy u can do the dash attack as its under its hitbox to avoid the damage

[raven onyx]

Supes,Joker,WW,Steven,IG,Finn,Marvin,Garnet

Bugs with his rocket

(Only if if tom doesnt shoot Jerry at the rocket

[trim cave]

Ww isnt too hard, garnet fist is reflectable, fin if u stop spamming jerry every once in a while, marvin projectiles can still be reflected but turned against him depending on how u play, joker is literally easy af if u dont do long distance jerry, iron giant cant deal with the fishing rod, idk who supes is can u unshorten him, and steven is a rather complicated one but this relies more on relying to not use jerry alot more and instead focus on using ur massive racket hitbox or else if hes abusing his funny air nuetral attack

Im not joking when i say ww isnt too hard just dont go agressive and use the dynamite shotgun perk when they go for their shield buff

Or when they do their anti projectile shield thats where the shotgun comes into play, punishing them

While doing it on the ground is a bad idea it isnt the same for the air

[subtle lotus]

He won't be toxic, he will atleast have an combo

[trim cave]

One dynamite is gonna be over her head

[subtle lotus]

If they add shields

T&J would be useless

Or only way to counter shields it's by doing fakeouts with paddle

And even if we hit it we get no compensations

[trim cave]

Almost all would be useless

[subtle lotus]

Bc there's no combo with it

[subtle lotus]

Yes

[trim cave]

The only canidate would be the joker

[subtle lotus]

This character will be f tier

If they don't make any change to him

He needs some adjustments

For this update

[trim cave]

So would rick, marvin, reindog, velma, and gizmo

Morty doesnt count since hes more balanced on both sides and is rather complicated to put into since i never really got a huge understanding out of him

[subtle lotus]

Mage are in danger

In general

More T&J than others

Bc he got to be the worst of all

Bc of his disadvantage state

And weight

Also with no combos

And no kill power

[trim cave]

Yeah mostly tnj, bugs is also out of the question since 2/3 of his projectiles are heavy ones

I forgot to mention that

[subtle lotus]

The shield counters any type of projectile

[raven onyx]

Bugs has a few bad Mus but i can agree

[subtle lotus]

Its like black adam shield

[trim cave]

Oh u gotta be ****ing with me

[subtle lotus]

Nope

Ain't joking

[trim cave]

[subtle lotus]

They lit showcased it on the testing grounds video

[trim cave]

MULTIVERSUS OPEN THE DAMN DOOR

[subtle lotus]

Any projectile can't hit you while your shielding

Or any attack

Also if you shield and he fails the attack while your doing it

You get an free punish

So paddle its useless

Also using jerry shot

[raven onyx]

ive figured out if you charge up a move it will do more damage to the shield

[subtle lotus]

Bc you have am instant armor breaker

[subtle lotus]

You can just interrupt the animation

[trim cave]

Heavy projectiles are armor breakers

[raven onyx]

Ik it seems damn obvious

[subtle lotus]

No

[raven onyx]

Yeaaaa

[subtle lotus]

That ain't true

[trim cave]

Armor and heavy projectiles were the shield and grab all along

[subtle lotus]

Also armor breakers

Does anything to shields

[raven onyx]

Nope WW armor can eat that up

[subtle lotus]

Like they showcased on the into the verse

[trim cave]

Thats her shield not the actual shield

[subtle lotus]

You need grabs

Or fakeouts

[trim cave]

The issue with shields and grabs mainly in ssb is the funny grab abuse

[raven onyx]

Grabs are good tho bc u cab use them as combo starters

If your close

[trim cave]

Take king k rool from ultimate, if he grabs u, u are screwed if u are at 100%

[subtle lotus]

We donr have grabs

Or any way to deal with shiekds

Shields

[raven onyx]

Ik we dont captain obvious

[subtle lotus]

The character its dead if they implement shielding

On normal games

And make no changes to T&J

Atleast we could have our combos back

[raven onyx]

The mage playerbase is crumbling

[subtle lotus]

To make any dmg if we do the read

[trim cave]

Heres the list of characters that will have from major issue to minimal by enlisting the classes

[subtle lotus]

Rick players are good with it

[trim cave]

Mages>assasins>brawlers>tanks

Tanks are gonna be the breakers here

Including iron giant mains

[subtle lotus]

Ig mains

Would be really happy

With this

[trim cave]

Dude if this gets added multiversus is gonna be whos the better ig

[subtle lotus]

Fr

[raven onyx]

IronVersus

[trim cave]

His only true counter was mages and by removing the one weakness makes him too op

[subtle lotus]

Mage are killed

[trim cave]

They could nerf him but it will never work cuz he can always combo with air

[subtle lotus]

Specifically T&J and Marvin

[trim cave]

U kill the mages, u remove the only important key component to rock paper scissors

[subtle lotus]

Also T&J its even worse

[raven onyx]

Now its gonna be Paper against Rock

[subtle lotus]

Theres a new way to counter even more paddle

Without giving compensations to him

Or any combo

We got 0 combos

The worst disadvantage in the game

The second lighter character in the game

And also 0 kill confirms

And kill power

This is the definitive bottom tier

And they won't do anything

Bc they hate T&J

[trim cave]

[raven onyx]

Like what did we do?

[trim cave]

Yeah

[subtle lotus]

2 words

Harcorefox

Loops

[trim cave]

I thought that was ricks thing

[raven onyx]

HardcoreFox can actually play the game

[subtle lotus]

Every character had an problem with that

But now is getting completely remove

[trim cave]

Are we talking about the paddle boat jerry combo?

[subtle lotus]

Like the paddle use in generak

So they should revert the changes

Theres no projectile or attack that we could uss

Use

Atleast give paddle the option to combo only into jerry shot jump

To get smth like an fakeout on shield

With paddle

Also give him

[trim cave]

Wait dont tnj mains usually violently move left amd right?

[subtle lotus]

More kill power

Bc its useless

[raven onyx]

I hope we get buffed next patch otherwise im playing Bugs until this game shuts down

[subtle lotus]

Yea

But if you just dodge after shielding

You can get the free punish

[trim cave]

what have i done

[subtle lotus]

Bc he's on whiff

Paddle its the move with the longest frames on whiff

[trim cave]

all i was doing was the intro gag

[subtle lotus]

If an character just shields paddle

You have like 7 seconds to counter it

The benefit on paddle was having it as an combo tool

And now it's basically useless

And now even more with the shield being add in the game

And we have no combos

No kill confirms

No kill power

And no projectiles

[raven onyx]

Like ive seen TnJ cannot kill like 150+

[subtle lotus]

Yes

[trim cave]

No he can and u can do that with a perfectly timed grounded up special or just edge guarding

[subtle lotus]

Grounded up special

Don't combo into anything

You can just di

He cant kill you

[raven onyx]

They ripped out the jump branch aswell

[subtle lotus]

Atleast your at an 150 or 180

Like an kill confirm

That's it true

Its jab 1 into d tilt

At 180

[trim cave]

The rocket mouse is just a kill confirm if u hit it

And thats the neat part

It is a dollar store joker counter

[subtle lotus]

Bro

That kills like at 120

With non good di

[trim cave]

Still under 150

[subtle lotus]

Like with light characters

Kills at 120

And with heavy weights

Like at 150

[trim cave]

If it kills it kills early

[subtle lotus]

I'm talking about an good di

Is not an kill confirm

And it doesn't kill early

120 and 150

Ain't good

[trim cave]

Its the earliest kill out of its entire moveset

[subtle lotus]

That's betlejuice kill power on release

That's why he was bottom tier

[subtle lotus]

Is not the earliest

That's the worst comment I have ever seen

Shaggy killing at 70

And ig killing occasionally at 40

The characters kill confirms are around

90 and 110

[raven onyx]

Make that 40 with weakened

[subtle lotus]

Like the normal kill confirms

[trim cave]

Well what else u got cuz u have the rocket, fishing rod, or the mouse trap

[subtle lotus]

The fishing rod its useless

Your totally vulnerable

And mouse trap kills at 150

The character ain't good

Hes just bottom tier

They lit deleted everything from him

By adding shielding

[trim cave]

yeah i was just pointing something out

[subtle lotus]

Yeah

Theres nothing

[trim cave]

That it kills early

[subtle lotus]

Atleast i reached to masters 1 with T&J

[trim cave]

Jom

Tnj alternate version

[subtle lotus]

Hes just really dead