Tom And Jerry

[valid star]

Tyty

[ember monolith]

@valid star

[molten loom]

what a crazy character

legit

what a crazy character man

so busted

this is literally becoming morty pre nerfs

crazy how it escaped this patch with nothing but a hey no more loops lol

[drifting pollen]

What u on?

[valid star]

Nah it ain't that good lol

Like, tj has some decent zoning but isn't special unless you use like 110% of your brain

I'm sad that throne room lost its walls 🫡

[trim zealot]

To be fair I spent quite a bit of time in training specifically practicing the combos, so i can’t really say whether or not it was a skill issue. Depends on what combos you’re used to using, if you used simpler combos then yeah, the inputs are weird to get used to. Buffering a down angled Jerry shot or jump into down air can be difficult to learn at first.

[trim zealot]

I used the combo whenever I got the chance as well, but it should feel more balanced now because before, I almost always got the opponent to kill% within that single combo. Now it should take 2 of said combo to do that, more for heavies, which is how I think it should be with the new attack priority system In place.

It should also be mentioned in this discussion, that Tom can use jab to convert into a down angled Jerry shot on most characters, and with jabs being inherently weaker options, the “loop” indirectly got yet another nerf. I’m still fine with all the changes though.

[hidden verge]

THEY DIDNT FIX THE LOOP

[trim zealot]

How so?

I haven’t gotten the opportunity to lab it out yet.

[hidden verge]

So after you do it once

You gotta wait the last frame until hitstun is over

Then the game doesn’t count it as a ground bounce

And you can do it again

And again

So paddle Jerry wait a tiny bit

Do it again

They don’t get the invincibility frames

They made it a lot harder

But it’s possible

[trim zealot]

I don’t know the frame data on it but dodges feel extremely fast. Idk for sure but it’s possible they are frame 1?

I’ll try it out in the lab.

Ok, so perks don’t work in training now. lol.

Can’t equip any.

Seems impossible to me. If you can, would you mind @ me a clip?

Oh. Wow. I also can’t change fighter or view them. This is bad.

[open crypt]

I mean i tried my own "loop" and it kinda works

[trim zealot]

Ok nvm. I just had to restart the game.

I would like to know how people are getting it to work, I’m having trouble doing it myself.

[trim zealot]

Still can’t figure it out. But I know you can at least try and setup a tech chase, or finish the combo with like ~30%

Much weaker than I thought but more damage will come from juggling and projectiles.

[subtle lotus]

Lets go no inf, now we got no braindead T&J mains

[summer rivet]

hooray

[trim zealot]

If they were brain dead, they wouldn’t be able to hit the combo. Besides, up tilt is still our best combo starter for whiff punishing. If anybody got off the character because of a universal change, I’d be very confused.

[subtle lotus]

I wont get off of this character

I played him since day 1

Now in very happy

This its what I wanted some read tech

[trim zealot]

I wasn’t telling you to. I’ve been playing them since release as well.

Just saying that no one is going to quit T&J because of a universal change to all characters in the game.

[subtle lotus]

I guess il try to get the grandmaster rank

I'm alr at masters

But yeah on global im like at top 700

And i need top 100

Damm i need a lot of grind☠️

[trim zealot]

Played some online matches. T&J feel weaker for sure, but still very good to play. I just have to win neutral and abuse advantage more than before.

[thin rain]

Looking for a 2s tnj main that's on master, please dm me, I'm a arya main

[ember monolith]

I agree

[drifting pollen]

I don’t play people my rank and it’s okay sometimes but I lose so much

Rp

[ember monolith]

ground bounce combos aren't entirely dead for T&J

[drifting pollen]

Just asking but where u at with t&j leaderboard wise

[ember monolith]

Just picked him up before the update dropped but I’m plat 4

[drifting pollen]

I’m plat 3 just fought a diamond 4 Harley Quinn top 95 Harley

[ember monolith]

ranks a bit iffy

[cyan whale]

Reaching diamond puts you in the top 100 for most characters. But that’s not that big of a difference. I once had to fight Flacoco who is masters 1 with Finn while I was in platinum 4

[shrewd badge]

https://medal.tv/games/multiversus/clips/iweEZggAnimpCx7v7/d1337sKNzLdD?invite=cr-MSw2djYsMTc4OTI4MDUyLA

WOOOOO

was sweating the last few sets

[subtle lotus]

Congrats you got into masters

I was on masters a long time ago

And seriously i dont want to grind for 1020 rp for getting into the top 100

Damm but i want that grandmaster

[shrewd badge]

what rank are you with tnj

like top 30 tnj?

rn im 57

[subtle lotus]

Im like top 58 or 56

I stop the grind when i get into masters

Should i continue grinding?

[shrewd badge]

up to u

[subtle lotus]

I could get grandmaster if I keep playing non stop i mean

I want to sleep

Tbh

[shrewd badge]

I can probably get Masters I but dont wanna grind that much now lol

[subtle lotus]

Yea grandmaster its not an problem for me

Alr faced some top players before

Even an evo contestant

But yeah i lost at the last stock

[shrewd badge]

I beat DiddyyKingg and TwitchedCrackMVS if that means anything

during the ranked grind

[subtle lotus]

I mean its ok

Nice👍

You khow what il try to get that grandmaster

Shouldnt be that hard

[shrewd badge]

good luck w that

[subtle lotus]

The meta right now i think its pretty balanced

[shrewd badge]

I think so too tbh

now that loops are kinda gone

finn actually needs to approach now

cause he got nerfed a good amount

[cyan whale]

You need to be top 100 global to get into grandmaster rank

[primal tangle]

floor for gm 2's is 4.5k rp

in 1's about 3.8krp

[trim zealot]

So the “loops” became something of a 60/30. If you do up tilt> down air> Jerry shot, you can catch the opponent if they choose 2 of 3 options during the tech chase. If they stay still or dodge towards you, you can catch them with up tilt. If they dodge outwards, they can’t punish you easily with Jerry being in the way. If you hit up tilt, you get a reset.

It’s a 60/30 because there’s a roughly 60% chance of resetting if all you care about is the number of options the opponent has.

[sturdy yarrow]

So what did they do to Cork?

I thought it was gonna be awesome for tech chasing but they've done something with the angle

[trim zealot]

Probably an unlisted “bug fix” if I had to guess.

They still have roughly the same travel distance, just less travel speed.

[patent prawn]

Is T&J still good?

[trim zealot]

The ground bounce change was universal, so we’re still pretty much the same.

I think so.

[subtle lotus]

60/40*

[subtle lotus]

Yeah, people think we are s tier

But I think he is high a tier

[primal tangle]

tnj dropped 3-4% w/r since yesterday

[trim zealot]

Thanks for the correction.

[trim zealot]

Does that mean winrate?

[primal tangle]

yeah.

the cork and loop nerfs getting to the character which is good

[trim zealot]

So 3-4% of us relied on the loops to win.

[primal tangle]

cork got nerfed too, not only loops

[trim zealot]

True, but not by much.

[primal tangle]

for me it's a bigger nerf than the loop

I dont use the loop but I spam a lot of corks

[trim zealot]

I agree, even as someone who used the loop.

[primal tangle]

old corks used to hit them if they jumped later. now they can jump corks anytime they want since they are flying too low

[trim zealot]

I think it just forces us to use them as tools to reflect with tennis racket instead of a Jerry self defense tool.

Which is fine because we have rocket and tennis balls still.

[primal tangle]

still it feels unnecessary nerf

[trim zealot]

I agree, but I’m hoping this additional unlisted nerf makes people complain less about Tom.

[trim zealot]

With good play it makes less of a difference as well. While I don’t like that this nerf makes the character harder to learn, I do like how it makes reckless Jerry shots more punishable, since he’s more prone to being killed now. But if you play well, and hit most Jerry shots, it’s just as rewarding as it would be with or without the cork nerf.

I just enjoy when the balancing in this game prioritizes whiff punishing. Most platform fighters are very forgiving when it comes to just throwing out moves.

[subtle lotus]

Bro shaggy its so broken

[stoic schooner]

Your struggling with Shaggy?

[ember monolith]

T&J are low A tier, high B tier, for twos anyways

[stoic schooner]

Yea the new Tech mechanic messed some some characters

[ember monolith]

Before the change he could be considered low A tier but the changes makes him struggle with the wrong teamate or match up

[stoic schooner]

Well im a 1v1 TnJ from my experice we have to go back in the lab

[ember monolith]

Yea I don’t play ones, not my cup of tea

[stoic schooner]

All i can say is if you find a good 1v1 TnJ just prepare for a TnJ episode

[ember monolith]

lol, I think for 1s TnJ are lower just because the top tier fighters that I see are vertical characters and Tom’s weight doesn’t help all that either

[stoic schooner]

Tom weight and Dead Jerry the rat weighs him down

[ember monolith]

But that’s from what I see in 1v1:

[ember monolith]

Yea but it’s not like you’re gonna keep Jerry the whole time

[stoic schooner]

Ik but we have to hit the lab to get around the tech mechanic

[ember monolith]

I think the best combo right now is Jerry down shot into Up tilt into side Jab 4x then idk

Kinda hard since Tom struggled with combo before the update

[stoic schooner]

And people complained about it

The untrue loop

Unless your Jason etc

[ember monolith]

It was kinda broken

[stoic schooner]

?

[ember monolith]

The games too slow where even if you could’ve dodge out of it they can still walk up to you with paddle and still hit you with it

[trim zealot]

Honestly you can do the same thing but now it’s a mix up as to how you want to punish your opponent for certain options, you can catch them rolling in or staying still with up tilt. If they roll away your only real option is cork or dash forward then jab. This also means a reset upon another up tilt.

[stoic schooner]

Basically avoiding the Tech mechanic

[trim zealot]

Mostly, just a skill check. If the opponent rolls in or stays still, they’re only hurting themselves.

[stoic schooner]

So do a delayed Jerry shot

[trim zealot]

Roll away is the only correct choice since we either whiff and reset neutral, or hit with cork or jab so no combos.

[trim zealot]

At this point in the mix up you won’t have Jerry with Tom.

[stoic schooner]

So what if i dont have Jerry

[trim zealot]

That’s the thing. You won’t. Not until you can get a reset anyways. And that only happens if the opponent stays still or rolls in.

But i guess you could dash forward into Jerry shot to punish roll out.

Not that you’ll get a combo.

But it’s better damage than cork or jab.

[stoic schooner]

Id use Cork due to prevent Jerry from dying

So i can get him

[trim zealot]

He probably wouldn’t die if you hit the opponent with him.

There might be a brief period where you could dodge it, but I’d need to lab against real people to test.

Since lab AI doesn’t dodge before an attack hits, only after.

TLDR: you can try to “loop” like you used to before, but now the opponent can escape if they roll away from you during a tech chase.

If you go for a straight combo, most you can pull out is like 40%ish.

[stoic schooner]

I was gonna say doe Dair-Jerry Shot-Paddle and Uair work now but no

[midnight wraith]

I know that Banana Guard is supposedly a winning matchup, but I always struggle against them as Tom & Jerry. Any tips on the match up?

[trim zealot]

That would work but you’d need to balance the % beforehand. Too low and the up air won’t lead into Jerry shot, too high and the opponent gets knocked too far up to be hit by Jerry shot. Not to mention you’d need to hit the Jerry shot really low to the ground

[ember monolith]

When I get back from camping I’ll be grinding Tom and Jerry combos

[trim zealot]

Be patient and prioritize punishing side specials from BG. Our down air is perfect for hitting them during side special, don’t use Jerry shot to do the same though, because Jerry will often get one shot by BG. Otherwise dynamite is basically a free neutral win most of the time. BG has no reflectors, armor, etc.

[midnight wraith]

Good to know, thank you :)

[hidden verge]

Gamers

The budget paddle loop also works

With the no jump version

Just paddle straight into Jerry

[dawn iris]

Quick question... anyone else play T&J as a joke game where you just have Tom trying to catch Jerry instead playing the match normally (in both free 4 all + 1v1)?

[hidden verge]

Never

[dawn iris]

aw okay

[drifting pollen]

Someone send me clips on how to do combos

[upper geyser]

I have used it once to kill a shaggy off stage with the frying pan

Black adam:

[hidden verge]

It’s not hard

Just don’t fish for paddle to hard

Most of your combos re paddle tho

[trim zealot]

Back when the loops were working, this version was character dependent. Can you post a clip of it?

[hidden verge]

Oh no it I character dependent

But

It works

Like the loop

Won’t tech

[hidden verge]

Sent it in personal dms

[trim zealot]

Thanks. I’m not sure how this works, but I’m going to test it out more in practice later.

Especially since the tech should be automatic.

[sturdy yarrow]

Not gonna lie Tom's kind of mid this patch

[subtle lotus]

Yeah for me he is kinda mid

Like ok

Not to powerfull

We even got an shadow nerf on corks trajectory

And we dont have an good time with black adam, shaggy and you khow the current trash meta

[sturdy yarrow]

I don't think they realised that the loop was pretty central to his gameplay like he needed it to be competitive and whilst I'm fine with them taking it out they haven't given anything back to help him out so he just gets mulched

[odd wadi]

If you need the loop you're not good at t&j

[cyan whale]

The loop hard carried T&J players who didn’t know how to play the character

Now you need to actually play Multiversus

And I say this with T&J as my third most played character

[primal tangle]

nah. still S tier

[warm sonnet]

I love it when people who rely on loops suffer when they actually have to play the game.

[cyan whale]

I never bothered to practice the loop because I figured it would get removed since PFG wants to get rid of all of them

Understandably so

And you can still get utilt -> Jerry shot -> utilt -> uair anyway

That’s still a decent amount of damage

[trim zealot]

I’m not gonna clown on you like others, but I mostly agree. It’s hard to blame people for relying on an easy 0-kill% combo, when all it took was a single combo starter we used before anyway. Now you just have to learn winning neutral more, instead of winning it once and killing the opponent easily after a single combo.

[cyan whale]

I’m of the opinion that regardless of broken combos/loops, you should try to learn the character to it’s fullest and not rely on said combos

Learning how to play neutral will make you infinitely better at the game than just learning one broken combo and fishing for it

[trim zealot]

It wasn’t hard to land even without fishing. So many people just rush in with aerials.

[cyan whale]

I mean yeah

[trim zealot]

Was hard not to abuse it tbh. I would’ve won most matches without it, but holy it was so much faster.

[cyan whale]

I put my practice towards reading habits and using Jerry shot and dynamite in neutral

But I’ve gone up against T&J players before that literally only tried to spam utilt and dair without using Jerry shot or dynamite once in neutral

[trim zealot]

Unfortunately people think T&J are way more simple than they actually are.

[cyan whale]

And considering how easy it is to whiff punish paddle and dair if you’re patient, the games didn’t end well for them

[cyan whale]

I think a lot of T&J players didn’t play him in beta where you needed to be a neutral god

[trim zealot]

I appreciate the unintentional compliment.

[cyan whale]

You couldn’t loop more than once or twice because attack decay

[trim zealot]

I miss it like that.

[cyan whale]

Same

[trim zealot]

Was such a simple solution.

Worked for everyone and didn’t giga nerf.

[cyan whale]

Yeah idk why they went from attack decay to a more Smash stale moves type system

[trim zealot]

I’ve noticed a trend since full release, of simplifying the game for new players a lot more.

Instead of capitalizing on the massive beta player base.

[cyan whale]

Yeah I’m worried that the game will lose its sauce

[trim zealot]

It’s been slowly draining.

[cyan whale]

Because people seem to just cry nerf

[trim zealot]

That’s been the case though, even in beta, if not especially. Remember pre nerf taz?

Easy to punish side B, but everyone complained instead of adapting to the move.

[cyan whale]

I feel like PFG doesn’t exactly know where the end goal is and they’re just trying to take player feedback into account but the majority of player feedback is “x is too OP please nerf”

I know VoiD made a video about this after the Stripe gun cancel removal saying the same thing that people complaining will remove all the cool stuff in the game

[trim zealot]

I was about to mention that.

[cyan whale]

And he felt like he couldn’t share tech because people would complain and it would get removed

Which I wholeheartedly feel

[trim zealot]

There’s a lot of generally bad stigma around MVS as a whole.

[cyan whale]

I’ve literally gatekept some tech for that sole reason

[cyan whale]

Yeah it’s pretty rough

The game is still fun tho

But I’m hoping it doesn’t become boring and stale if all the sauce is removed

[trim zealot]

I have more faith in PFG than that, but I somewhat agree. If something is to the point that more casual players won’t learn to beat something. I will gate keep to an extent.

Like loops before were well-known already, but also just touch of death. So you could counter it, but I kinda knew a lot of people wouldn’t try.

[cyan whale]

All I ask for is better combo games across the board with lower kill power

With the exception of like Iron Giant and Jason who are clearly designed to be big hit characters

[trim zealot]

IG feels especially unbalanced rn. In singles he’s easily S-almost S tier, but in doubles he’s like an F tier throw pick.

[cyan whale]

They keep nerfing the cooldown of burst and like that’s not the issue

Burst can stay 30 seconds idk why it was nerfed to 45

But where IG is actually broken is rage mode which tournaments like Midnight Multiversus have addressed by limiting IG rage mode to once per game

[trim zealot]

I haven’t had the pleasure, or displeasure of playing against many rage IGs.

They actively choose not to use it most of the time lol.

[cyan whale]

If you get hit by the big green ball, you get ToD comboed

[trim zealot]

I have had that happen a few times.

Steven’s bubble on drugs.

[cyan whale]

Not to mention dtilt spam with the shockwave is literally just Shaggy rage down special but spammable

And iirc he has access to burst again on activation but I could be wrong on that

[trim zealot]

I have no idea why they gave him the ability to cancel that move.

They had to have foreseen the infinite(s) and spam of the move.

[cyan whale]

Rage IG dtilt at ledge is unpunishable

You just need to ledge camp until rage mode ends

[trim zealot]

I wish I had some ideas for a good way to better balance IG, since I love the character, but I don’t know what could be done with his size already making him difficult to make good in 1s and 2s.

I guess that’s for the IG channel to figure out.

[sturdy yarrow]

Well all of you feel free to share your tech and combos with me because I'm struggling out here without the loop

[subtle lotus]

For me in 1s it's like a tier

Like low A tier, high B tier

But in 2s he's S tier

[primal tangle]

Idk about you but I see streamers fight him on high level and still complain about how strong we are in 1's.

surely we got loop and cork nerfs this patch, but everyone else got harder nerfs. we are still over them. just adapt your tnj playstyle to no loops or short loops and you'll be back on the S tier run

[subtle lotus]

His disadvantage stage it's trash man

We are garbage of they kill jerry

We got nerf in corks

And we struggle to kill

[trim zealot]

That doesn’t make a character good or bad, just more forgiving. On the casual side, it could make a difference, but when you have a character like T&J who have amazing neutral, you can avoid disadvantage more often than other characters.

[subtle lotus]

People just don't like the fact that we have to many options

[subtle lotus]

Ik bro

But you khow how much we suffer on bad mus

If the player khows the counterplay, it shouldn't be an problem

Well I'm going to play bye

[trim zealot]

I dont think our “bad” matchups are as bad as other characters’. Our neutral is very effective almost regardless of the type of opponent we face. Disjoints, reflectors, and armor are decent counters to projectiles, but when you have so many projectiles at the same time, and the ability to camp out armor, you can still clap most of T&Js “bad” matchups.

That and unlike many other projectiles, 2 or 3 of ours can lead into combos, small combos, but combos.

I’m not arguing for a specific Tier rn btw. Just don’t think these are valid points to claim that T&J are more mid tier than before, especially since the ground bounce change affects everyone who had combos involving them.

I personally think you could say A or S tiers. But B tier, definitely not.

[subtle lotus]

You cant clap black adam and shaggy that much

[subtle lotus]

I play grand masters🥲

[subtle lotus]

With my bad mus

[primal tangle]

you cant win hard matchups without outplaying them in general.

both of these two are hard to face for us even in 2's

[subtle lotus]

Yea

🥲

I'm not complaining about the rank

I usually fight them

Its the character

[primal tangle]

I didn't mention the rank.

just saying they give tnj hard time in both queues by design

not just in 1's.

[subtle lotus]

Ik its ok

[trim zealot]

I kinda forgot black Adam existed. He is definitely harder than any other character because of the bubble though. Shaggy just punishes you for leaving Jerry hanging by one shotting them.

[cyan whale]

As someone who’s played both sides of the matchup, Shaggy definitely loses, but with the new tech change, the matchup is closer to even but still slightly T&J favored imo

[subtle lotus]

Tbh no, i have played some grand masters, shaggys lit impossible they abuse his nair, and easy confirms

[cyan whale]

If you DI up after getting hit by Shaggy nair, he gets no follow up

At low percents

You’ll be too high for jab to connect and his utilt is too slow

Shaggy is definitely easier to play for sure, but T&J slightly wins the matchup because of how bad Shaggy is against projectiles

[subtle lotus]

His not that bad

[cyan whale]

What counter does he have?

Rage kick and that’s it

[subtle lotus]

Shaggy its an hell matchup, bc of his ability to destroy jerry

He got a lot of moves to kill jerry

[cyan whale]

Don’t be greedy with Jerry

[subtle lotus]

Ik, im at masters with T&J

[cyan whale]

Or just camp with aerials and dynamite until you get Jerry back

I’m also masters with Shaggy

[subtle lotus]

But its just hard when your playing high lv shaggys

Even when they have his insane combos that can kill you of one read

They jab jab reverse up tilt

Then up air, up special

Wait you to dodge

Then sair

Or kick

[cyan whale]

Uair into up special isn’t true

You can dodge

[subtle lotus]

Idk maybe it's up tilt reverse

[cyan whale]

The classic dodge read combo is jab jab reverse utilt up special into dodge read with kick

[subtle lotus]

It connects

[subtle lotus]

That's the one

[cyan whale]

If you jump instead of dodge, you’ll avoid kick entirely

[subtle lotus]

and the sair?

[cyan whale]

And with the top blast zone grace area being larger, you won’t have to worry about dying

[subtle lotus]

But if you jump they can up air

[cyan whale]

After aerial up special, Shaggy has nothing guaranteed

[subtle lotus]

Man idk to much about the mu

[cyan whale]

He needs to hard call out an option

[subtle lotus]

I just play passive to shaggy players

[cyan whale]

That’s the best way to beat him

And then go in when he runs out of resources

[subtle lotus]

Ok thx

[cyan whale]

No problem

The other thing to note is that you can make it harder for Shaggy to land the up special after reverse utilt if you DI towards Shaggy

If you try to DI away, you get sent straight up because he reverses it

But if you DI towards Shaggy, he will need to dodge jump to connect up special which means he burns more resources

Since you’ll end up behind him

[primal tangle]

no shaggy wins the matchup.

I cant remember who, but after the patch I remember watching fox rage hard about his loss vs a top shaggy player

shaggy has all the tools to kill jerry, his kick goes throw slingshot unless you hit his body not legs

[cyan whale]

I definitely need to see how the matchup is now after the patch, but before T&J solidly won especially because for some reason Shaggy had a harder time escaping the loop

[primal tangle]

yeah prepatch maybe shaggy loses because of loop, but now it's 100% shaggy's favorite if both playersa re same skills

[cyan whale]

I’ll have to see for myself, but Shaggy is still really bad against projectiles so idk

Marvin is Shaggy’s worst matchup

[primal tangle]

dont know about marvin. but a good shaggy def wins a good tnj

[subtle lotus]

That's what im saying

😭

I played an grand master shaggy, and now we dont have tools prepatch to deal with that demon

[trim zealot]

Just don’t shoot Jerry in a way where he’s liable to be killed.

Having Jerry on you is a lingering threat as is because you can combo off a disjoint.

If you want to “shoot” at shaggy from far use single dynamite.

Otherwise he’s forced to approach you unless he wants to pointlessly play dodgeball with sandwiches.

[drifting pollen]

Steely he

Gg

[drifting pollen]

I hate water tower and I got it twice in the same ranked match

[primal tangle]

my playstyle relies on slingshots, though I am a 2's player

[minor aspen]

tnj needs its jab fixes people drop out of the jab2 or 3 , also it is the worst jab in the game, I would suggest that tnj cant break their mouse trap with their own projectiles

[hidden verge]

I just noticed

TnJ had a stupidly hard time against Harley

TnJ is really good at controlling ground

But he can’t do nun against a quinn who gun sair spams

[subtle lotus]

Tbh his worst mu got to be shaggy and adam

[odd wadi]

More dynamite

Against Black Adam though good luck. Just go for more physical hits is what I do

[unkempt sinew]

Shaggy's free lol

He struggles against projectiles

Adam though is irritating

[open crypt]

I do read punish

I do paddle, then fry pan and wait for the dodge and repeat

95% in my matches works

[pallid ridge]

Question

How does one punish paddle consistently

[unkempt sinew]

Dodge the first hit. After that Tom is stuck in the rest of the animation

Or throw a projectile

[subtle lotus]

Damm that comment really make me laugh, I think you didn't faced an good shaggy, I'm talking about master and grand master one, it's really bad for him

[unkempt sinew]

What can Shaggy do that you can't answer as T&J?

[subtle lotus]

Kill you at practically 0 percent, and camp at the air, we don't have that good moves at the air to catch opponents, that's why we struggle with black adam, also they look for his nair in the air that its an huge hitbox

[subtle lotus]

Paddle doesn't win the interaction with nair

Its super fast, active and big

But if it was prepatch T&J we could, do it even better

We are talking about shaggy its top 2 of the game

[worldly stone]

Can I send to someone my TJ gameplay?

To judge if I play good?

With it?

[latent thicket]

Sure

[trim zealot]

Use grounded moves, ideally ones with disjoint. We can’t cancel paddle if none of the attack hits. All we can do at that point is walk left and right, and hope we don’t get punished for using it.

I assume you play shaggy, so your best options to punish paddle would probably be side special and sandwich. Don’t listen to Gogeta about your neutral air, I wouldn’t chance it on the trade, or gamble on getting comboed. We don’t do nearly as much damage as when we had a loop, sure, but we can still combo off of up tilt for considerable damage.

A good T&J player will probably still find ways to land paddle though. Just remember that once we start charging, if none of the attack hits you, we are stuck in a super long animation with the only hit boxes being directly above us.

[worldly stone]

K

Hang on

[cunning basin]

What do you guys think T&J's best partners are?

[primal tangle]

IG & WW

[sturdy yarrow]

Tom + Bugs is mind of nutty

[primal tangle]

it's one of the worst comps

[full glen]

I think Tom’s best partner is Jerry

And Jerry’s best partner is Tom

[trim zealot]

Another T&J for doubles, on paper looks fantastic. In practice it’s not that great because of the average skill level of random T&Js online, no shade to anybody in here. I’ve encountered many who just try to box the opponent, but when I do find someone who uses ranged attacks, it generally consists of fishing rod and cork mashing. If they used projectiles more intelligently, it would be an obnoxious team comp.

But also bugs bunny, and WW is always a safe pick for 2s.

[ember monolith]

anyone who could take the front for Tom to play his projectiles

[primal tangle]

nah. bugs is one of the worst ones

his tunnel makes it very risky for us to toss jerry around

[dusty nova]

I can speak from experience from playing tom and jerry they can be a cheesy spam character especially if you dont D I tho I prefer to mix and cross my melee attacks with my projectiles creating and using new combos rather then playing lame and boring it's more fun

Tho playing fun instead of lame tends to get you killed at 20 by a agent smiths dash attack or a jacks side b on the edge of the stage🤝

[wicked sphinx]

does tom fishing rod has an active hurtbox?

[primal tangle]

no. only when the tip of it is up in the air and when you're pulling it back

[wicked sphinx]

Oh, i think when i play with beetlejuice i use the grounded up b (the kick) on the reel, and tom just yeeted to the top blastzone out of nowhere. He's on high percent i think.

[ember monolith]

The more I play Tom the more dumb stuff I go for

[plush spire]

What do i do against this fricken guy

[cyan whale]

Kill Jerry

[plush spire]

Seems like a lost cause

Hes too beefy

[keen swan]

Petition to stop letting the little rat defend himself

[plush spire]

I think its either that or he needs to die quicker

[ember monolith]

you guys are struggling with Jerry?

[rare bolt]

just find a move that kills him quick, im pretty sure almost every character has a move that one shots him

[odd wadi]

one or two hits

think they're stuggling with the players that pick him up immediately after using him (usually myself)

Focusing on Jerry is only really a good idea if the player using slingshot a lot or anything that actually needs Jerry to function

if not i'd not worry about it since Tom is good on his own

[subtle lotus]

All characters can one shot jerry with an armored move of his kit or with the dash attack perk

[subtle lotus]

The key to win, T&J it's first of all killing jerry, if your character don't have an armor break move jsut equip the dash attack perk

[odd wadi]

Characters I hate fighting against as T&J : Gizmo, Black Adam (#1), Batman. Tbh that might be it. Hate Superman in general. That's probably it. Maybe Stripe but it's pretty mild frustration at best.

[ember monolith]

funnily enough I love going against Black Adams

[odd wadi]

For why you like using Adam?

[ember monolith]

I meant going against

[odd wadi]

That's what I typed but autocorrect got me

[ember monolith]

oh lol

[odd wadi]

You're on trial though I need answers. Why do you like fighting him

[ember monolith]

but most black adams I go against as Bugs and Tom and Jerry, I have an easy time with them despite them being a counter

but then again I do play 2s

[odd wadi]

Can't stand Black Adam nor Superman.

I only play 1s now

[ember monolith]

ohhhh

I cant play ones

Im too bad at it

[odd wadi]

Playing 2s I don't think they're as bad but they're bs

[ember monolith]

yea some comps are cancer

[odd wadi]

It's all I play now is ranked 1s.

Made a Black Adam mad yesterday

Was great

[ember monolith]

these include Velma/Iron Giant, WonderWoman/Steven, Samurai jack/Shaggy

[odd wadi]

Can't stand fighting him. Started spamming jabs because he runs too damn much

[ember monolith]

lol good for you

[odd wadi]

Then he clap emoted and jumped off stage

[ember monolith]

yea the clap move seems to annoy people

[odd wadi]

Samurai Jack has ensured I'll never play 2s alone

[odd wadi]

It hits everywhere and the fly into his punches

[ember monolith]

yea

One change to make 2s more fair is team attack IMO though

[misty bluff]

I love Thomas and Jerald

[odd wadi]

Me too

[odd wadi]

That's the other reason I don't play 2s as much

Can't stand when they decide to jump one person

Because it's easy

With Jason I can usually come back from it but with Samurai Jack existing now I'm hardly ever going to be playing 2s

That one game where I had Samurai Jack and a Shaggy vs me and whomever else was life changing

In a bad way

[ember monolith]

As much as Tom’s strength comes from sitting in the back sending projectiles it does feel bad just being able to send projectiles without consequence

[odd wadi]

I play them aggressively but in 2s I might sit back more

[ember monolith]

Yea

And other comps too are strong for the sole reason team attack isn’t a thing I.E Iron Giant/Velma, Tom/Wonder Woman or Steven,

Just a lot comps that broken

[odd wadi]

WW with anybody felt broken especially Steven

[ember monolith]

WonderWoman although not being the best anymore is still very much in the top tier IMO

[odd wadi]

Who do you think is best? Feel like most just repeat what they hear and lose to which is Joker and WW but I don't think either of them is OP. I think Wonder Woman is an A tier character and Joker is maybe an S but S doesn't mean OP.

Personally I think Black Adam is an S with a lean into the OP category. If Fly and clap get nerfed I think he'd be balanced.

Superman A but I can't stand fighting him when I'm Jason. Think his grab hitbox on fly needs work.

I get grabbed when trying to hit him out of it from above or above and behind a fair bit if I don't legit hit from behind but they spam it because it catches jumps too but I can't run because it goes so far, can't jump it if I'm Jason it just has a lot of problems when using Jason.

T&J I just dynamite so it's only busted if you have no projectiles

[ember monolith]

My S tier for 2s is as follows, Wonder Woman, Gizmo, Steven, Iron Giant, Morty, and maybe Arya

[odd wadi]

I can understand those. I've heard IG is a knowledge check character so he's the only one I wouldn't really agree on but they usually beat me too since I haven't learned how to not get cheesed

But his win rate is like 47% with Jake while everyone else is at least 50%

[ember monolith]

To me he's the perfect character for characters that sit in the back

He makes Velma a good character in 2s

[odd wadi]

wanna show ya'll what I mean by T&J Being a super creative character and not just a paddle bot

[simple hamlet]

i wish there were more of those T&J's rather than just doing a loop or spamming down attack that has a hugeeeeeee hitbox :(

[ember monolith]

I like using Toms specials in conjuction with Jerry like throwing a rocket at him, launching myself with Jerry rocket and tennis balls which for some funny reason you can hit more than twice

and I love it that you could reflect opposing toms projectiles

[shrewd badge]

How do you beat stripe

Like I literally don’t know what to do in that MU

???

[simple hamlet]

Makes sense because you play bugs and TnJ lol, also have you tried Rick? I think you might like him idk tho

He has a weird moveset (also ima go for a bit to sleep)

[ember monolith]

I can't play Rick

his moveset is confusing

I probably could, but I'm fine with Tom and Bugs, plus if I wanted to branch out, it'd be Shaggy and Wonder Woman

[odd wadi]

#clips message

[broken abyss]

I'm kinda shocked how sluggish they're without speed perk 😵

[sacred urchin]

#clips message

funny

[odd wadi]

She was probably screaming more than laughing 😂

[hidden verge]

There not that sluggish there not finn level speed but it’s fine I still think collateral damage is a very valid perk to use still

[trim zealot]

While I do think it partially shows how you can creatively play T&J. That clip in particularly was a bad play that just happened to work because Joker waited for a second and then jumped. Most opponents I face in similar situations immediately chase me from the ground. A better option in that situation would’ve been dynamite, since our up air would cover an aerial approach, and the dynamite would allow you to recover if it hit.

[odd wadi]

I've just been spamming fishing pole a lot lately unless you meant the rocket clip?

Wait you said joker so yeah fishing pole isnt super effective there and dynamite is the answer but I don't use it each time. Most expect dynamite so I mix it up with pole. That one I just also got lucky he didn't expect it and thought I'd dodge in

If you ask me though that's where the beauty of doing not optimal stuff comes in though

Just depends who you're fighting.

[untold jasper]

hear me out

jerry throw paddle jerry throw paddle

!!!

[odd wadi]

who has hurt you today

[trim zealot]

That was patched out with the second last update.

And it’s not all we can do.

The bad players relied on it, the good players abused it when they happened to hit a stray paddle.

Besides, if you got stomped by us while we had loops, you’re still going to get stomped by us without them.

[raven onyx]

Tbh it had to be removed Jason,IG,Superman etc couldnt get out much

[trim zealot]

I think the change happened mostly because the attack decay system just hasn’t really worked since the beta.

It stopped all infinites without hard nerfing any characters into the dirt.

[raven onyx]

We need attack decay back 100%

The amount of spam in unhealthy

Ik thats ironic bc we are TnJ players

[untold jasper]

Apparently attack decay still exists

We just don’t get notified when it’s active

[trim zealot]

We “spam” projectiles because we are a projectile character, it’s what we do. It doesn’t have to be categorized as spam if it’s intended and varied in the projectiles we use.

[untold jasper]

No it’s spam

[raven onyx]

Nah its non existant

Or ami delusinal

[untold jasper]

There is attack decay

[trim zealot]

It barely exists. It still is in the game but pretty much has no effect on hitstun anymore.

For whatever reason.

[untold jasper]

Yes

Old attack decay was better

Not perfect but better

[raven onyx]

Hella nerfed

[untold jasper]

It nerfed projectile spam, taz tornado, loops, ladders and dair spam offstage

[raven onyx]

And people HAD TO THINK.

[trim zealot]

“Spam” for me is hard to categorize. If something continuously works against your opponent, can you really blame them for repeatedly using said move?

Don’t blame the players at least.

[raven onyx]

Tbh its on you for getting hit by the same move

Yea its confusing

[trim zealot]

I’m the Tom player, I’m not complaining about “spam” at all.

[raven onyx]

I was like that but i numbed it down bc i got used to it in the end

[trim zealot]

The Tom and Jerry players’ pilgrimage.

I only started playing this character because I like Tom and Jerry, stuck around because the move set is cool, and Tom is the most fun projectile character I’ve ever played in any platform fighter.

[raven onyx]

TnJ are my childhood thats why i wanna pick them up again but im in a character crisis rn

[trim zealot]

Return to us.

That’s my vote.

[raven onyx]

I want to play Bugs bc i played him alot in the beta got almost 2k wins with him

But i wanna play TnJ

[trim zealot]

Just play whoever you have the most fun with.

Not gonna tell you you’re wrong for choosing one or the other.

And anyone who does is rude.

[raven onyx]

Some people would in this community

Toxic

So idk wanna do

[trim zealot]

That’s in every fighting game community, don’t listen to them.

[raven onyx]

Yea u right

[trim zealot]

You’re the only person who knows which character is the right one to play.

Or maybe multiple characters.

[raven onyx]

I only play Bugs and TnJ

But im gonna get berated for picking those characters

[trim zealot]

People hop into this channel just to complain all the time, I’ve gotten used to it.

I just enjoy the character.

[untold jasper]

People hop into every channel to complain

[raven onyx]

Yea bc they call for nerfs well they lost fair

[untold jasper]

Because that’s what these character specific channels are for

[trim zealot]

The main point of them should be to learn matchups, counterplay, character tips, etc.

[untold jasper]

Yes

[trim zealot]

It was in beta.

People were generally more civil.

[untold jasper]

Yes

The community sucks

[raven onyx]

Not acting like children

[untold jasper]

I mean

Children play this game

What did you expect

😂

[raven onyx]

Yea i should seen that💀

[trim zealot]

Children who know how to act civil, and ask for tips on how to beat us instead of just complaining.

I hoped anyway.

[raven onyx]

Chance_805 cries about anything the game (dont know if its bait

Hes a MVS Streamer

[sturdy yarrow]

Finn main not worth listening too

[trim zealot]

It’s possible if it’s on stream, it might be rage bait.

Never heard of them, so idk.

[raven onyx]

Hes on twitch

[odd wadi]

Yeah

I don't think it works the same with the knockback

[ember monolith]

not only him but this guy Veriflied complains about Morty being weak

[open crypt]

How do you fight finn
Hes so braindead that is just press buttons and win

[ember monolith]

the best strat from my experiences is to rush him

[obsidian lantern]

Finn doesn't have any projectiles

[ember monolith]

my fault 💀

[shrewd badge]

Does Tom just lose against morty

Like how do you win that MU

Maybe I just suck? But I feel like morty can just run away and spam his neutral options really well

Like should I be in the air more as Tom or stay grounded

Like idk

Jesus Christ

[shrewd badge]

Anyone plz

[shrewd badge]

K I guess no one knows the Mu

[raven onyx]

You can reflect the grenades

[trim zealot]

Same answer as to most characters in my experience. Manage projectiles and use dynamite for neutral. Also just like Miku said, use racket to reflect grenades where applicable, just remember that morty can blow them up if you give him enough time to react, so wait for the grenades to come into racket range, then reflect them.

Just don’t be surprised if Morty ends up defaulting to walling you out with up airs or dirt ring. Most Mortys play like that, and I imagine more will when they see that they are against a Tom and Jerry. That’s why I recommend using projectiles against him mostly.

[wicked sphinx]

does this character has voicelines?

[trim zealot]

If you count the William Hanna screams when we die or use the hurt toe taunt, then yes.

[slender matrix]

Tom scream when he “self explode” with a rocket too

[odd wadi]

Trying to figure out how I can use that for assault

[hidden verge]

You can’t really do that

[odd wadi]

You won't stop my madness

Gotta go practice how to consistently get knocked away by it first

Then think of some scenarios to try it in

Call me a madman now but in a week I'll be posting a clip of me doing it

[trim zealot]

If you aim Jerry one direction (left or right), then the opposite, followed by a stationary cancel of any kind (including a dodge), you should be able to consistently be knocked either way by Jerry. Not a good idea in most real matches but maybe you’ll find a niche way to use it, good luck.

[trim zealot]

Nevermind, I just realized I got confused.

[odd wadi]

Thank you

Oh 👀

[trim zealot]

You can launch yourself up in either direction but not straight sideways. Not very fast anyway. Up is fast though.

You aim Jerry up then cancel into a jump I think, I forgot. It’s been ages since I’ve labbed it out.

Either way, good luck. If you find anything useful, please let us know.

[odd wadi]

Unless they did it just to be goofy it'll definitely have some use somewhere especially with catching people off guard

[open crypt]

finn is so

but so braindead

[warm sonnet]

You lot remain a natural threat to Morties. I respect that.

[raven onyx]

Their scared of a tennis racket

[warm sonnet]

Tennis reflects their entire arsenal.

[raven onyx]

Even the Dirt?

[warm sonnet]

No, but Jerry survived it anyway.

Jerry also beats most projectiles.

[raven onyx]

Tom and Jerry players are holding the lines for others

[unkempt sinew]

My ranked climb keeps hitting a wall with Harley man

She feels really safe in the air and trying to punish her charged boxing glove gun thing often results in her catching me with side air.

[ember monolith]

It's because she's top tier for ones, not broken like IG or Gizmo, but she's def up there

[subtle lotus]

Bro gizmo its not broken and ig it's an punching bag for T&J

But im talking in 1s context

Idk about 2s

Harley in 1s its top tier

But ig and gizmo in 1s are like a tier

[ember monolith]

Gizmo shreds Toms projectiles and without Jerry you're gonna get tossed in the air

[subtle lotus]

Oh yeah

You cant lose jerry

If you lose jerry yeah your cooked

But you can abuse gizmo with your set ups and projectiles

[ember monolith]

Idk gizmo has ridiculous combo game and knock back with his up and side special

[subtle lotus]

They nerf him

[subtle lotus]

It waesnt ridiculous since the beggining it was easy to di

That was like an noob trap

And they nerf it anyway

Man this people have skill issue

[ember monolith]

Nerfs don’t insinuate a balanced characters all the time

[subtle lotus]

For me its balanced

His not that good

Pretty easy for me

Just use jerry shot

[worn garden]

cant believe number 1 gm is a tnj player

who plays like a plat

[ember monolith]

Ranks don’t essentially mean skill just more so grind especially in Ranked, that’s why tournaments are a better measurement of skill

[worn garden]

i completely agree, but... number 1 gm????

[ember monolith]

You gotta consider majority of the season had a broken rank system too

[sharp plaza]

Actually, he got number 1 when tom had the loop, that's why he is so high, he really got crazy and started playing at least 200 games per day (not joking, it's totally real) while abusing that

And it was so hard to beat him bcuz one single hit of up tilt and you were stuck in a 0-70 loop

Now that he doesn't have it he is losing his mind

[worn garden]

WELL DESERVED

[ember monolith]

that too, shows how one broken loop can turn someone into "the best player"

also loving trying to find new TnJ setups

[storm smelt]

Is TNJ a good team comp with Harley?

Like anything specific

[ripe crest]

Am I the only one that feels Tom and Jerry feels off ? 😮‍💨

[sturdy yarrow]

No he feels kind of lifeless at the moment like there's some crazy combos but they are very DI dependent

[dusty nova]

I just be using black atoms projectile bubble against him every time he pulled it out i knocked him out and placed a cheese trap inside and then just guard it comboing while damaging bro with his own projectile protection till it disappears🤝

[worn garden]

if you mean the ones with the bj skin in ranked, yes they all play pretty consistent and lifeless. if you mean any other tnj, no, theyre completely fine

[worn garden]

theyre genuinely a cult at this point

[warm sonnet]

Oh boy. I sure do love people suffering from their inability to learn.

[broken abyss]

Still Waiting for Butch and Tuffy variant. 🥺

And Cowboy Tom

[untold jasper]

@rain briar 10 bucks if you approach me

welp you still got cooked

[summer rivet]

same here, we need more skins

AND EMOTES

[obsidian lantern]

We could have musketeer, zoot suit, and pianist/conductor variants

It would be funny if they named the pianist/conductor skin "Maestro T&J" and have Maestro Bugs accuse them of plagiarism (as a reference to the contending between "Rhapsody Rabbit" and "Cat Concerto" for nomination in the 1947 Oscars)

[hidden verge]

I just noticed

Characters with good nairs tend to have a good matchup against us cat and mouse’s

We don’t have good air combos

So anyone with good air combos

We get slammed by

Black Adam

Bugs

Finn

[latent thicket]

Well 2 of those characters also have projectile shields in their base kits

And bugs can zone decently well

[ember monolith]

Funnily enough those match ups I don't struggle with at all

[worn garden]

no tnjs in ranked today, thanks for not showing up guys

[raven onyx]

We have lives bruh💀

[ember monolith]

games feeling stale rn

[worn garden]

im glad to hear that

[odd wadi]

Playing other things

[worn garden]

lets keep it that way

[odd wadi]

😂 you've probably not got much of a chance to play me anyway if you're top 150 I'm like top 500 for t&j

[worn garden]

atleast you dont play with lifeless startegies, as you said before

[odd wadi]

I can't I talk so much trash about people that do play like bots. Even when it's not working the same playstyle and strategies.

I'd rather lose trying to use everything the character has than win playing like every other tom and jerry player

Take a lot of L's upfront playing that way but once I get good at it have fun 😂. Been that way with Smash bros playing greninja and had to retrain how I played him to deal with projectile spammers but it was worth it

[worn garden]

🫡

[odd wadi]

I have a question for my fellow mains. There's one combo in particular that tom can do without Jerry. Do you know how to make it true or is it true and i'm just too slow?#clips message

[slender matrix]

It’s not true because the garnet tried to dodge

[odd wadi]

i need it to be true so badly. Gonna keep trying it at diff percents but when in burnout its basically true

[ember monolith]

If you cancel paddle after the third hit you can combo it into up rocket up air

the only way to get out is to DI

and you need jerry too

[odd wadi]

Gotcha thank you

[worn garden]

another day without any tnjs, im starting to love you guys

[odd wadi]

You're welcome even though you'll probably never face me 😂

[worn garden]

Ah man, funny how youre the only one I would never mind facing lol

[odd wadi]

Because I don't wanna spam? 😂

[worn garden]

Yup

[odd wadi]

You'd probably have me pissed off before I make you mad. I love Jack but I hate fighting him. That jab increases my internal meter by like 80% each time I get hit by it

[raven onyx]

More rare tbh

[raven onyx]

I just smash my controller when he gets that focus thing

[hidden verge]

Dude we have an amazing matchup against Jack

You just drop dynamite without hitting it for free combo strings

[odd wadi]

I truly don't mind big hitboxes. I don't like bs ones. Why does his jab hit me when I'm jumping over his head?? Side special spam is manageable for me usually but the jab

[odd wadi]

No that I know its actually really funny

[raven onyx]

That attack when he slices that robot beetle thing that is a vacuum

[odd wadi]

Keep in mind I play Jason just as much as I play tom though so it still hurts

[odd wadi]

I just hang off edge for that one

I've only been hit by it maybe 3 times since he's released and each time except one it was just because I challenged it with forward air

The other time I just got hit

[raven onyx]

Wall fatigue messes me up and they do dair so

[ember monolith]

Finally got an emulator working been playing a lot of Wii games, also I play a lot of 2s instead of 1s

[peak beacon]

Does anyones jabs just whiffs for no reason?

[keen agate]

Why do Tom and Jerry spam the paddle when they start losing. Like I don’t do that and I just want to know why

[odd wadi]

If I don't like how they play AND they're beating me I do that until I can think of what I need to change up or just to annoy them in hopes that it makes em slip up out of rage

It's generally only.gonna happen to BA and Superman players

Maybe Jack

[peak beacon]

I do it when my opponent is getting on my nerves

[ember monolith]

it's a low skill move that works

[raven onyx]

Just Reached Plat with TnJ im happy

[odd wadi]

Welcome

[worn garden]

ahh yes , the "i know why ,but, why?" stage fighting against tnj

[hidden verge]

Rookie not master toast

Smh

[peak beacon]

Does anyone else jabs be whiffing when doin the four hit?

[raven onyx]

Yea it can whiff sometimes

[open crypt]

im master tom yipee

[odd wadi]

goodness

Congrats though

[open crypt]

im for now
master I taz
Master V tnj
Diamon V jason
gold I harley

[odd wadi]

PLAT 3 TNJ
PLAT 3 JASON
Bronze Morty
Bronze Velma
😂

don't remember what bugs is but prob bronze too

[open crypt]

i have other like in bronze or plat, but meh, maybe my braindeads i could leave them in gold

[hollow flax]

What setups and or combos do y’all use? Besides the loop that I guess isn’t a loop anymore.

[drifting pier]

Scum

[rose agate]

has tnj been nerfed since multiversus relaunched?\

[keen swan]

Yes lol

They got rid of loop

And likely nerfed other stuff

Idk what specifically off the top of my head

But dudes always been a super lame playstyle to fight so you don’t really notice the nerfs

[rose agate]

dang he was my main i mean i noticed them

[keen swan]

Yeah that goes for most characters

The mains notice the nerfs the most

T&J has just never been a fun character to fight

[rose agate]

thanks tho something seemed off abt him

[warm sonnet]

Tom and Jerry are fun. Sometimes I laugh hysterically with how I die to them.

[open crypt]

Scum guy, you're here too?!

[drifting pier]

Yes I’ve been asked to expand my territory

I’m a man of the ppl 😭🙏🏾

[dark lance]

run and shoot jerry

run and shoot jerry

run and shoot jerry

excellent gameplay

[drifting pier]

Every t&j main swears that move isn’t good

It’s jsut a win neutral button

Scum

[warm sonnet]

Jerry wins against every projectile.

Also he can't freeze.

[raven onyx]

Are yall thinking TnJ are gonna get Buffs or nerfs

[subtle lotus]

Nothing

He is ok right now

People only complain bc they are bad

They are talking about jerry shot a lot, but if you dodge it, then camp in the air, jerry can't self defense

Corks don't hit you in the air

Also he can get one shot with an armored move

And if your character don't have an armored move, you can just equip the dash attack armor perk

[warm sonnet]

There is no Dash Attack Armor perk. Only a Dash Attack Armor Break perk.

[subtle lotus]

Yes

That what im talking about

You just need one dash attack to kill jerry

[warm sonnet]

Instructions Unclear. It takes 3 Plumbus hits for Jerry to die.

[subtle lotus]

Oh you play morty

[warm sonnet]

...yes

[subtle lotus]

Idk about morty

But most of the cast can just one shot jerry with one armored move

Or use the dash attack perk

That would work anywayz

Anyways

[warm sonnet]

Snake laser comes to a halt when it hits Jerry btw.

And Jerry survives.

The Cat and Mouse are funny

[subtle lotus]

Yep, Jerry surpass almost every projectile

They need to fix that tbh

And the paddle hitbox

[ember monolith]

Jerry shot? it's the best projectile in the game

[drifting pier]

Yah ik

[drifting pier]

Wym he’s good and I’m probably 100% better than u😭🙏🏾

[subtle lotus]

I'm 100% sure that your trash for that comment

I'm master rank with T&J

[drifting pier]

What’s ur rank?

[drifting pier]

I’m grand master with Rick😭🙏🏾

[subtle lotus]

I dont like rick tbh

Like figthing against him

[ember monolith]

Damn bro's him, what's your ign?

[subtle lotus]

Its spammy

[drifting pier]

The last 2 times that I played against the 1 player in the world I beat him … its was hardcore fox btw😭🙏🏾

[subtle lotus]

I cant play that often, so im not at an higher rank, i need to work

[drifting pier]

Diddyyking

I haven’t played in like 2 weeks

[subtle lotus]

Bro i was saying the T&J weaknesses

Hes not that good

[drifting pier]

But peaked at top 20 tho

[ember monolith]

#52!?!?!?!? Bros grind is on locks

[subtle lotus]

That guy its an loop spammer

[subtle lotus]

Hes not

I dont think so

Hes not that crazy

[drifting pier]

No I peaked at top 20

[subtle lotus]

He got the worst disadvantage at the game bro

You just need to time that jerry shot

And your done

[drifting pier]

Yah he has weaknesses but there minimal in my opinion paddle shot is jsut so good

[subtle lotus]

But its kinda tricky

[subtle lotus]

They'arent minimal

That's why he's b tier

He got an bunch of s tier stuff

But he just ruin it, when he lose jerry

He become bottom tier

Till the cooldown ends

[drifting pier]

Jerry mechanics is super good

And he also has other good moves

[subtle lotus]

Paddle hitbox needs to be patch

[drifting pier]

Why are we downplaying

[subtle lotus]

I'm not downplaying

That's void opinion

And I think the same

You just need to khow the counterplau

Counterplay

And would be easy

If he spams the jerry shot

If you manage to dodge it

[drifting pier]

Void is also a downplayed lol

[subtle lotus]

You got an W situation

[drifting pier]

That’s his main

[subtle lotus]

You can kill your jerry or try to rush Tom

[subtle lotus]

Bro you need to analyze his weaknesses and compare them with the other characters

None character got an trash disadvantage like him

That's why he's b tier

[drifting pier]

I am

[ember monolith]

void hasn't played much tom from what I seen since the release of Multiversus

[subtle lotus]

Also spamming with him, it's not good bc if you can manage to dodge ones you can get an massive punish

And bc his an light weight, you can get an early kill

[drifting pier]

No u don’t Jerry shot endlag isn’t that bad

[subtle lotus]

If you did, you can say that his not a tier or s tier

[drifting pier]

He’s def a tier

[subtle lotus]

All the characters from that tiers can solo T&J

[subtle lotus]

Maybe at the bottom of a tier

Like the last character in a tier would be fine

Or high b tier

At top 1

[subtle lotus]

Its not about the endlag

[drifting pier]

Nah he’s a solid b tier character

We’re not even talking about frying pan hot boxes too

[drifting pier]

U literally can’t punish Jerry shot lol

[subtle lotus]

Bro you was telling me that my opinion its trash and now your agreeing with me

[subtle lotus]

You can

Bc he leaves Jerry in the ground

If you dodge the jerry shot

You can rush down the Tom

And bc his main task its to get jerry back

He will run at you

And you can get an combo

Or kill jerry while your in the air

So corks can't hit you

[drifting pier]

No u can’t punish it bro

[subtle lotus]

Ofc you can

[drifting pier]

This all sounds good until u play the game

[subtle lotus]

You need to dodge the jerry shot then if the Tom its way to far

[drifting pier]

He can move freely after Jerry shot bruh

[subtle lotus]

You can one shot the jerry by one armored move

[subtle lotus]

Ik, but you will be in front of him

Also he will run for jerry

That's the reason

[drifting pier]

Nah Jerry shot isn’t punishable at all

Bros tryna mis inform ppl

[subtle lotus]

You can do it, but its a lil bit complicated to kill and punish jerry or tom

[drifting pier]

Tennis racket is

[subtle lotus]

They can hit you if your way to close to jerry

[drifting pier]

Ok

Obv

[subtle lotus]

I think you need to target Jerry with armor break moves to one shot

Like batman down tilt

Its really fast

Or

Bc you use rick

Equip the dash attack armor break move

[drifting pier]

Since only one person here has actually beaten harcorefox here consistently I think I’ll be fine

Bros tryna set ppl up for

[subtle lotus]

Harcorefox its not that good tbh

He was an loop abuser

[drifting pier]

Bros tryna tell me how to counter Tom like i didn’t beat the number 1 Tom

[subtle lotus]

I didnt see any skill on his gameplay

[subtle lotus]

So

You khow by yourself

That his not that crazy

His an b tier with s tier stuff

That needs to be patched

[drifting pier]

Tom is a skillless chart lol u should know scum

[subtle lotus]

Like his weird hitboxes

[subtle lotus]

I dont play T&J spamming

I try to do some set ups

And situational combos

[drifting pier]

Sure u do

[subtle lotus]

I dont like to play braindead characters

In all figthing games I always pick the hardest

[drifting pier]

Ur playing Tom and Jerry bri

[subtle lotus]

Hes supossed to be hard

[drifting pier]

He’s not the hardest

[subtle lotus]

But khow he's like an 2 moves characters

I play rick and bugs too

[drifting pier]

Bro go to Walmart and buy a mirror

But u main Tom and bugs isn’t hard

[raven onyx]

Hence the hard diffculty

[subtle lotus]

I saw an video when I started playing the game

And they said T&J was the hardest character

[drifting pier]

And u probably suck with Rick ngl

[subtle lotus]

So that's why I picked him

[subtle lotus]

Bro your an massive trash talker man

Shut up

[raven onyx]

Bro defo plays WW

[drifting pier]

Well that’s why u don’t believe everything on the internet

[subtle lotus]

Idk I just wanted to play smth hard

Then i saw the rick portal combos

And i started doing them

And they didnt feel hard

You need to read di and thats all

Idk what's the hardest character right now

But i like T&J set ups

[drifting pier]

What Tom set ups aren’t talking about

[raven onyx]

The funny thing is TnJ got screwed over by the tech mechanic

[subtle lotus]

I didnt care about that

I was happy

[drifting pier]

I play Rick nice try tho

[subtle lotus]

I was complaining about the spammy mess the character was becoming

[raven onyx]

Yea i tryna find a work around that

[subtle lotus]

I made an balance changes and ajax responded me, I just wanted to get that gutted

[subtle lotus]

So annoying

An 0-100%

[raven onyx]

Id admit the Bugs loops needed to be removed

[subtle lotus]

Yep

I main bugs bc he's like an rush down now

And he requires reads to kill

And its super fun to play him

[raven onyx]

And REQUIRES A BRAIN TO PLAY

[subtle lotus]

T&J its super funny too

[subtle lotus]

The bat its an war crime

But yeah

T&J requires brain but only if you play at the harder way

Not like all the people think it is

[raven onyx]

Yea i can tell thats getting nerfed

[subtle lotus]

Well cya bro

[odd wadi]

Hopefully nothing

[split jackal]

Who thinks that this character is underrated?

[drifting pier]

No one

[warm sonnet]

Some think they're underrated, others think they're overrated. Can't he just be... rated?

[subtle lotus]

B tier, with s tier stuff

That's all

[subtle lotus]

Hitbox adjustments, and patch the ability of jerry surpassing every projectile like nothing

[odd wadi]

I kinda don't wanna lose that since Jerry easy to kill anyway 👀

[subtle lotus]

But that is broken

[odd wadi]

I don't truly know how to feel about it. I've never thought they were op or strong characters until seeing all the complaints here. I thought people just played them because they like t&j like me. When I do fight them they usually are the paddle jerry and spammers but it's not hard to dodge when used outside of a combo. And killing Jerry isn't hard when they're not hounding over him and even if. You knocked tom away and get jerry from above or something quick.

We'll see how the devs felt about it with the balance patch coming with S3. I don't think t&j need or will get any nerfs I think more movement options and quality of life stuff would help people with it but like I said idk 🤷🏽‍♂️

[subtle lotus]

I play him bc i like him since day 1, ik its not that hard to dodge and punish, I was saying that to an guy yesterday

Tom and jerry its super overrated

People its not good enough to learn how to counter them

So they start hating T&J instead

T&J its an b tier now

The only real problem are his hitbox

Ngl they are broken

Also jerry properties, he can go throught every projectile

[subtle lotus]

Well almost every

[odd wadi]

Being honest. I think the hitboxes are probably fine it's just because of how things are animated. Whenever I edit clips I look at times I've gotten questionably hit and the characters usually have those quick moments where they're extended to get that cartoony look and it results in weird hits

[subtle lotus]

They aren't fine

Paddle its an hitbox mess and down air too

[odd wadi]

Like Bunny rocket 😂

[subtle lotus]

That and safe are the only projectiles that he can't go throught, don't be silly you khow that its broken

I'm not saying that his super s tier top 1

His b tier

With broken hitbox

They need to remove the paddle hitbox after whiff

And adjust the pan hitbox

[subtle lotus]

Also the paddle hitbox should be at the top of the paddle, not on the edges