Shaggy

[dusk geyser]

Yeah Morty is a good contender. The ones that know how to use grenades mid combo string mess me up.

Dirt is hard to beat if a Morty has a finer tune controlling it. The whiff lag nerf on it helped a bit, but not by much

I'm excited for Jack. I have a feeling he'll have a longer range on his katana hitboxes than Finn.

If PFG is doing the power creep thing like they did with Joker, his range is going to be absurd. Like Sephiroth length

[glad marten]

It made it too hard for noobs to play when they got hit so they had to remove it to make sure the noobs had more fun getting killed at 2% by the side b none of them can ever dodge

Why did they even do that? Did they just wanna make a handful of moves in his kit bad?

[fervent gust]

im pre patch pilled where had all those weirdo jab combos

[glad marten]

I'm not that was no better than now

[waxen pine]

Nah this was peak

[glad marten]

I love unhealthy game design where characters kill at 40%

[frozen geyser]

It’s fine if all characters equally kill at 40%

[fervent gust]

I cant imagine making a fighting game man theres way to many things to consdier

I like the game in its current state, I feel ones is more reasonable now

[dusk geyser]

guys guys
FrossTea said that Shaggy is worse than Garnet 🙌

Alright PFG, time for buffs

[waxen pine]

😐

Ain’t no way

[glad marten]

I mean I guess he is mostly just a noob killer and it takes a pretty good Shaggy to do well at high level

But still

Worse than GARNET??

Is that guy insane?

[dusk geyser]

idk man he is fighting ppl at the highest level rn

[glad marten]

Idc what he's doing he's a crazy man

[frozen geyser]

What matchups does Garnet even win?

Velma lol

[dusk geyser]

theez ones

#1245143274260402222 message

[frozen geyser]

Garnet being considered better than Shaggy is crazy

Not even I think Shaggy is that bad

[glad marten]

I've definitely had more trouble against Garnet players than Shaggy as of late

I've only been playing like Jason and Reindog though (I LOVE being looped infinitely by everything ever as Jason it's like Iron Giant but worse)

[dusk geyser]

I feel like some of her kit overlaps Shaggy. She basically has the same Jab > up special kill confirm (clap when her spark is on cooldown)

and she has good poke with rocket punch and stage control with marker

grounded neutral attack is also just a better Shaggy punch since it also gives armor and has a bigger hitbox.

[tranquil perch]

how do you get the shark week hat on shaggy??

the one where he puts on his sunglasses

[glad marten]

Buy it

[tranquil perch]

can't even buy it

it doesn't show up at all

[frozen geyser]

If you didn’t get it from the shark week daily login, then you have to go to the fighter tab, go to Shaggy, select the variant and purchase it that way

[tranquil perch]

heres the thing

the variant ISNT there

it doesn't exist at all

[glad marten]

Skill issue

[frozen geyser]

Oh then idk PFG make a functioning shop challenge failed

[tranquil perch]

lmfao

[willow beacon]

Bro good to see that the charged fist attack kills bruisers at 40💀
Absolutely reasonable if they were to nerf that

[frozen geyser]

If you’re walking into a fully charged neutral attack from Shaggy, you kinda deserve to die at 40 lmao

[dusty walrus]

True

[mortal axle]

mmmm yes, shaggy winstreak

ended as a 12 winstreak
pretty nice

[willow beacon]

Yeah, but feels especially good when you catch someone off guard with it

[dusk geyser]

after achieving my impressive 23% win rate with Bugs Bunny I've decided to crawl back to Shaggy 😎

Smells like home
and sandwiches

[waxen pine]

Nah you should play stripe

[dusk geyser]

ngl his combos look spicy
but there's this one Stripe main I fought in beta that still shows up in my matches from time-to-time.

We would fight for like 12+ matches in beta. Going pretty even against each other.

I feel like if I picked Stripe now I'd be conceding our rivalry 😔

[frozen geyser]

I’ve been playing T&J more recently

He’s fun but some matchups are just really bad

But the ones he wins he destroys

[dusk geyser]

yooo jack

ive saved up all my prestige for him if needed : )

[glad marten]

He will not have any prestige skins 😔

He will be the battlepass character and his tier 70 skin will be that battle damaged skin in the trailer and he also has those really bad ranked skins

[tranquil perch]

hmm im curious

does shaggy's shirt rip emote work on his shark week skin?

[glad marten]

It should but I think it just doesn't work period rn

[tranquil perch]

awh damn

[uneven acorn]

what happened to the old character channels?

[frozen geyser]

Unless Shaggy gets some sort of rework to have better combos and less kill power for Season 2, idk I might not really play him much

The Hangry Man over-nerf, the loss of utilt combo extensions, the loss of jabs into aerials, etc just make Shaggy feel lame to play

[willow beacon]

Oi Hoagie, the devs done nerfed my Shag and took me bloody combos

[frozen geyser]

Yeah basically. Like I get he had a few really cheesy confirms, but they gutted his combo game in the process of removing them

[cunning rock]

Best perks for shaggy?

[mild fjord]

Please tell me Shirt Rip will be fixed at the start of Season 2..

[frozen geyser]

5%, snowball, last stand, pugilist

[uneven acorn]

hes getting another nerf me thinks

[frozen geyser]

Nerf kill power. Buff combo ability

Please

[glad marten]

Honestly with Samurai Jack dropping soon I wont even touch Shaggy even if they rework him (maybe for old times sake 🤔) but I just know Jack is gonna be fire

[uneven acorn]

shaggy got a 0td on jason

[waxen pine]

Samurai Jack looks so fun to play and absolutely miserable to play against

[unique crag]

Shaggy so easy to play

[frozen geyser]

It’s gonna be Finn 2.0

Aka another sword character that beats Shaggy

[dusk geyser]

going to main jack and not looking back

Bye Shaggy bye Bugs

Toy Story I don't want to play with you anymore meme

[frozen geyser]

Btw does anyone know how many wins you need for 5 stars on the badge?

[dusty walrus]

This

[uneven acorn]

2.5k

y'all whining for no reason when u can just play passive asl and only go for jab jab up special

[dusty walrus]

It’s not about how good he is

It’s that it’s not a fun way to play

[uneven acorn]

(like the shaggy i went against earlier)

[dusty walrus]

They removed the fun part of the character (combos) and kept his broken kill power on specials

[frozen geyser]

Dude Shaggy barely has combos anymore

[uneven acorn]

also i typed this while my opponent was in the bubble (im playing IG)

[dusty walrus]

I get why they did that, but beginner characters don’t have to be literal white bread

Unless you go for insane dodge/DI reads, your advantage state is just jab 1,2 -> up tilt -> up air or jab 1,2 -> dtilt -> dash attack

Then jab 1,2 -> up b at kill percent

[uneven acorn]

anyone wanna spar and get shaggy diffed

[dusty walrus]

Like there’s nothing interesting about this character anymore

[frozen geyser]

This

[dusty walrus]

Unfortunately I can’t hop on rn

[uneven acorn]

some other time! :>

[glad marten]

The swordie experience honestly

He looks like he'll just be like Cloud honestly

[waxen pine]

I actually never really minded cloud in smash, and I played a character who lost to him -2, so maybe I’ll enjoy samurai Jack more than I think

[frozen geyser]

Which character?

[glad marten]

I never played a whole lot of smash since I just don't own Nintendos stinky consoles but wasn't Cloud considered like top 10? Super busted type thing?

[frozen geyser]

I personally think a lot of people overrate cloud

The Luminosity tier list currently has Cloud at 13th

I’d personally put him closer to 20th

[waxen pine]

I play Yoshi, have since ultimate dropped

Idk, I think with what Spargo has done with cloud shows he’s got enough potential to be around where he’s placed

[frozen geyser]

My old college roommate played Yoshi

[frozen geyser]

I think Spargo is just good

[waxen pine]

Very sorry to hear that

How good was your old roommate?

[frozen geyser]

Like how MKLeo was literally the only Byleth with results and people thought Byleth was high tier

[frozen geyser]

We were all mid level players

Except my one roommate who’s a high level player and is currently in the top 500 with solo Bowser Jr.

But the rest of us were like 2-2’ers

I’ve basically dropped Ult and have become more like a 1-2’er and said roommate is now capable of semi consistently placing top 8 at our local

Ult just got so bland because there’s no tech, frame data is literally everything, and the meta is all zoners

And Fox

[waxen pine]

I used to play a lot at my college and when I was home but I haven’t been playing much recently

Lot of annoying mfers played smash where I am

[frozen geyser]

Same

We’ve got one of the largest scenes with a decent number of top players in the area

And there’s a decent bunch of annoying people who talk sh for no reason

[waxen pine]

I played around St. Louis, so I ran into AK, Henry Luma, Colorondo8 and Tim Prater a lot

[frozen geyser]

But my friend group are the ones who are actually decent people

[waxen pine]

Yeah, by now I go out to tournaments every now and then but mostly play with other friends

[frozen geyser]

I’ve gone back to Brawl where there’s way more tech and mind games are way more prevalent

[waxen pine]

Brawlhalla? Or smash bros brawl

[frozen geyser]

Smash Brawl

[waxen pine]

Damn

We almost play the exact same plat fighters

[frozen geyser]

Crazy

Wait do you play Smash Brawl?

[waxen pine]

Nah I meant brawlhalla

Haven’t played smash brawl in a minute

[frozen geyser]

The meta is progressing which is nice

MK is no longer the undisputed top 1 and ICs are now seen as equal or potentially better

Sheik, Fox, Toon Link, ZSS, Peach, and Falcon are having their meta games pushed

[waxen pine]

That’s good to hear

I only played brawl casually but even then we all knew MK was the best no question

So it’s nice to see things are changing

[frozen geyser]

Yeah and there’s finally a major tournament coming up with MK/ICs banned

I can’t attend because money, but it’ll definitely be interesting to watch

Most of the MK/ICs banned tournaments have been pretty small

And we’re finally starting to add new counterpick stages that were previously banned due to MK with the clause that MK cannot counterpick to any of those stages

It’s just a win win for everyone and adds more unique stages without changing how MK players play (assuming he’s still legal)

[uneven acorn]

shaggy players are so miserable

[frozen geyser]

The amount of people who throw around “top x” with whatever character is insane

Most of them are just bsing

[glad marten]

Most people who claim to be good at fighting games are garbage

Statistically speaking, in a ranked setting, most players will average silver-gold tier (in some games it's platinum because of a super lenient ranked system) and continue bragging about being top 10 players

[uneven acorn]

they literally called me an r word for beating them with ig

[frozen geyser]

I’m definitely looking to try and get at least one of the skins for getting gold or higher

[frozen geyser]

Tbf IG is absolute cancer, but the matchup is even so he’s just worse if he’s losing

[uneven acorn]

also yes ig is the worst

[glad marten]

I doubt gold will be hard to get tbh
The ranked system seems like it almost has a pity system for bronze and silver

If the ranked system is as lenient as the beta was, I bet most people will have master

[frozen geyser]

I’d hope master would be a bit harder than that

[uneven acorn]

should we all agree to never use shaggy again after samurai jack releases

[frozen geyser]

Ok but what if they actually make interesting changes to Shaggy?

[glad marten]

They won't unfortunately

Their goal is to remove "the skill gap" from the game

Which means NO Shaggy combos because he's meant to be PISS EASY for noobs

[frozen geyser]

Then I’ll just be cancerous and farm people with IG

Or play an interesting character like T&J

[uneven acorn]

one of us one of us

ig has a true 0td 😭

[frozen geyser]

A few characters still do

On light characters, big Rick has jab 1,2 -> utilt -> uair and that kills at zero

[uneven acorn]

difference is IG doesnt need anything but a jab on the edge to get the 0td

[frozen geyser]

Superman has jab 1,2,3 -> dtilt -> nair -> sair and that kills at zero at ledge

[uneven acorn]

also his fighter mode if you get stuck in the bubble youre dead at zero at edge

[frozen geyser]

Oh yeah I’m aware

Rage mode is insanely broken

Finn can also zero to death off of jab

Jab 1,2 -> utilt -> nair -> sair 1 -> up special

[uneven acorn]

but thats random

im like 100% sure ig is still gonna be broken after nerfs

like accidentally adding another loop or 0td

[frozen geyser]

He’s always going to be

[uneven acorn]

hoping its enough to speedrun ranked

[frozen geyser]

Everyone sucks vs IG

You’ll be fine

I’m just hoping they separate ranked by character

[uneven acorn]

not really

you got morty tom and rick

[frozen geyser]

I’m really hoping for Morty nerfs

He’s easily top 3

[dusty walrus]

In Smash 4 he was #2, and many people think he’s top 10 in Ult

[uneven acorn]

yeppp

everything he does can be true too

[dusty walrus]

Morty so annoying bro

[frozen geyser]

Why does dirt put on TWO stacks of weaken

And combo into uair which always procs flammable

[dusty walrus]

Morty up air is just Zelda up air but on a good character

[frozen geyser]

True

[uneven acorn]

WHY ANY AT ALL

like remove weakened 😭 🙏

[frozen geyser]

Yeah. Weakened is the most OP effect

I was playing T&J earlier and dirt uair killed at 70

That’s just not ok for a move that literally covers every option

And blocks almost all projectiles

[dusty walrus]

Dumbest effect in the game

[glad marten]

"What if players could increase their damage and knockback by 25% by just landing one attack 3 times?"
-PFG balance team

[frozen geyser]

25% more damage and knockback with 5 stacks of weaken is insanely OP

Remember back in beta when Batman batterang perk did 5 stacks of weaken?

Personally, I think weaken should just deal more damage and not more knockback

25% more damage is already really good when you consider it stacks with the 7% from snowball and 10% from pugilist

[jovial prairie]

I really like new shaggy, I just find fun playing him and relying a lot on reads, it feels sooo good to hit people with up tilt

He's not broken but he's fun

[uneven acorn]

yesss like who thought that was a good idea ???

[uneven acorn]

uptilt reads?

[jovial prairie]

Yeah so many people just dodge right or left after jab jab uptilt
and you can catch them with that

Obvs good players don't do that but you still can read a lot of dodges and I really love that

[uneven acorn]

ah but so many shaggys do that

very repetitive

[jovial prairie]

I mean it's the optimal way since he doesn't have the 60% - death combo, he is just like that

And I'm also not the kind of player that wants to do something new and clip things

It just feels good to play him like that

[uneven acorn]

fairs

he still kinda has the jab jab dtilt loop

you can do it without dodging or with but it depends on reading it

[dusty walrus]

I’ll still play Shaggy because I like mashing buttons

He just needs a lil more sauce

[uneven acorn]

switch to ig and watch all your problems disappear

[frozen geyser]

Maybe against IG but certainly not against anyone else

[uneven acorn]

nah works on jason lebron and shaggy so far

it works on everyone unless they di up i think

also down tilt after jab 2 is true on everyone but IG 💀

[frozen geyser]

Yeah at literally zero. If you’re at like 30 then it’s not lmao

Dtilt 2 is so useless

[uneven acorn]

im pretty sure i still dodged out of dtilt at like 140 damage

[frozen geyser]

Oh wait you said just dtilt

[dusty walrus]

How does Shaggy do against LeBron?

[frozen geyser]

Lebron kinda sucks so Shaggy probably wins. But Lebron still has some sauce

[dusk geyser]

y'all see the reddit post this morning showing a clip of lebron's ball going underneath rick's legs?

rick was just walking forward and the ball went underneath lol

[delicate latch]

Skill issue

[dusk geyser]

thats my name don't wear it out

i can't wait to ditch this character for Jack

[uneven acorn]

ditch him today for IG

[dusk geyser]

Jack appeals to my inner mall ninja weeabo dreams

[dusk geyser]

ooooooOoooo that Jack gameplay

the long ranged slice move gonna be fun

[glad marten]

IG is for stinky losers

[uneven acorn]

i agree but im exception

[frozen geyser]

Samurai Jack definitely looks like a losing matchup for Shaggy based on the gameplay

It’s gonna be Finn 2.0

[waxen pine]

Dude samurai Jack is gonna be one of the best characters in the game

My hard read is #2 under iron giant

[frozen geyser]

It’s definitely a possibility, but I don’t think any of his moves have armor break besides the grab

So he’s probably gonna lose to WW

but he easily looks like he’s gonna be top 5 minimum

[dusk geyser]

Very excited to play him. Good-bye Shaggy, we've had a few good years together

Also super excited to be finally interested in a character that has a good a range as Finn 😮‍💨

[glad marten]

It's just the new character experience really

They're almost always either top 5 or bottom 5

[waxen pine]

Nah agent smith was pretty balanced

[glad marten]

"almost always"

[waxen pine]

Fair enough but I was typing that before you sent the second message, didn’t see it mb

[dusk geyser]

15 minutes fellas

[waxen pine]

When the patch notes dropping

[glad marten]

I'd guess like 50 minutes (after maintenance is probably finished) no?

[waxen pine]

Shouldn’t take that long but maintenance only started like 3 minutes ago according to their Twitter

[glad marten]

Don't MVS maintenance times usually go between an hour and 2 hours?

[frozen geyser]

The page is up apparently but it doesn’t have character changes

Only that Jason and Smith can be bought for 6000 fighter currency and Joker now costs only 3000 fighter currency

[waxen pine]

They made Jason expensive bro what lmao

[frozen geyser]

Which is really dumb. I’m sure WB is responsible for enforcing this 2x currency requirement

[waxen pine]

You can’t even say pay to win Jason’s the worst character in the game who is buying that

[dusk geyser]

whoa... ranked with no balance changes is crazy

[waxen pine]

I doubt that’s all there is

[frozen geyser]

There’s probably gonna be and they just haven’t added it yet

[waxen pine]

Or at least, they fumbled hard if that’s all

[frozen geyser]

I mean certain characters still need nerfs and others desperately need more buffs

[dusk geyser]

someone lab out Shaggy and see if he's better or worse once we come back online lol

[waxen pine]

I was talking to a friend, this new update actually seems like PFG knocked it out of the park but I’m worried the patch notes are going to ruin that for me

[frozen geyser]

I just want them to ensure every character has sauce

Without being too overtuned

Shaggy has been left sauceless

[waxen pine]

I don’t think he’s supposed to tbh, which sucks to say but I think that’s the design philosophy they’re going with

[frozen geyser]

I get he’s supposed to be the Mario of Multiversus but like cmon man Mario is a high tier in Smash with hardly any unwinnable matchups

Shaggy has practically no combo game compared to other combo centric characters, no range, and no way to deal with projectiles

I’m not asking for beta level combos but give us something man

[waxen pine]

They should give him jab loops back again

[frozen geyser]

The issue with that is you then allow jab into IAD nair loops

I propose a revert to the utilt change and allow dtilt 1 to be cancelled slightly earlier on hit

Patch notes are here

https://multiversus.com/en/news/2-0-season-2-patch-notes

Forced BO3 for ranked thank god PFG listened

No more one-and-done

You get a penalty for leaving

Wait wait they added Melee ground to air momentum conservation

That could be huge

Max weaken is now 3 instead of 5

Also huge

[merry kiln]

really? that's something

[frozen geyser]

Shaggy got no changes

[merry kiln]

be grateful they haven't nerfed him

[waxen pine]

Real, stripe got dropped to bottom tier this patch

[frozen geyser]

They said they wanted to nerf Morty dirt but they only gave it a range limitation

Bro just remove the weaken stacks it gives because a single dirt -> uair kills at like 80

[merry kiln]

morty got buffed lol

[frozen geyser]

Yeah

Like he’s already top 3 imo and now he’s gonna stay there

[glad marten]

Nope! There is a bug so ranked will have no rematching!

Every match is FORCED one-and-done 😭

[frozen geyser]

Bruh

[frozen geyser]

Oh god no more gun cancels and a cooldown on dynamite? That’s rough he didn’t need changes

[waxen pine]

No more gunshot jab combos, no more reverse gun up air or sair confirms, Stripe’s entire neutral is going to be sitting and waiting for cooldowns to end

His aerials are all too slow to keep up with most of the cast in scramble situations so approaching in an opponents threat range usually means you’re losing neutral

[glad marten]

https://x.com/Player1stGames/status/1815781438857384116 In case you think I'm trolling, ranked matches will be forced one-and-done for some time

[frozen geyser]

Bruh

[frozen geyser]

Yeah that’s rough. Hopefully they revert that next patch

[waxen pine]

They won’t

I’m just waiting for them to ruin another character in the next patch

Both of the characters they completely gutted started with S, maybe Shaggy is next

[frozen geyser]

They removed WW lasso cooldown

And just made it easier to whiff punish

I’d rather them have done the same to Stripe

If anything

But he was fine before

If dynamite was such an issue, just give it more whiff lag or increase the self damage or something

Don’t force him to camp for cooldowns

[dusk geyser]

No Finn nerfs either.
Sorry fellas I'm joining the disjointed hitbox team as Jack.
I'll be thinking of y'all whenever I put Finns in their place

[glad marten]

It's basically a requirement to play top tiers atp

[frozen geyser]

Unfortunately

[willow beacon]

Bro shaggy left untouched...

[merry kiln]

who would y’all say is top tier this patch?

[frozen geyser]

Morty and Finn for sure

[merry kiln]

finn got buffed?

[frozen geyser]

No

[dusk geyser]

Unchanged

[frozen geyser]

But everyone else got nerfed and he was unchanged

[dusk geyser]

It's the season of the swordfighters

[merry kiln]

I don’t think he’s top tier

[frozen geyser]

My immediate guesses are that Morty, Finn, Jack, Batman, WW, Arya, and Bugs are gonna be the best characters now

[glad marten]

He's top tier

He has a 0td

Biggest hitboxes in the game

Nothing but disjoints

Fast

[frozen geyser]

The hitstun changes to IG are probably actually take him out of top 5

But he could still be a top tier

Hard to say

[merry kiln]

how do you guarantee nair after up tilt with finn?

I always do it wrong

[glad marten]

Please let Jack be so OP he wins off one hit I want free ranked

[dusk geyser]

this is a huge free space of text lol

[frozen geyser]

Jab 1,2 -> utilt -> sair 1 -> nair -> sair 1 -> up b

[merry kiln]

jump after the up tilt or?

[dusk geyser]

Same. I want that Master skin lmao

[frozen geyser]

You don’t need to jump at all iirc because utilt and nair give you a boost

[dusk geyser]

Jack got 4 ranked skin

four skin

[merry kiln]

I like the banner

I also love the ringout at the end of the battle pass

[frozen geyser]

But at mid percents, uncharged utilt -> jump nair -> sair 1 -> up b I believe works and kills

[merry kiln]

it should be much easier to grind the battlepass with the 50 xp thing

[frozen geyser]

You can also mix up at literally any point with side b

[merry kiln]

wait is that like completely true?

[frozen geyser]

Pretty sure sair 1 confirms into everything yeah

[merry kiln]

I recently figured out down special into nair is true most of the times as well

[frozen geyser]

Otherwise take it out and the combo is basically unchanged

[frozen geyser]

Haven’t tried it, but you can probably do utilt -> down b -> nair -> up b

And I wouldn’t be surprised if that kills too

[merry kiln]

down b after up tilt being true would be insane

I might have to pick up finn again

I played him a lot in the beta

but I’m kinda stuck with trying to fish for jabs now

couldn’t get any follow ups other than the old beta zero to death

[frozen geyser]

Might need to dodge upwards and down b

[dusk geyser]

I wonder if the momentum changes will help Shaggy approach with knee?

[frozen geyser]

It’ll help approach with nair for sure

[merry kiln]

wait what did they change?

[dusk geyser]

can someone eli5 what the momentum changes actually mean?

The purpose seems to be allowing people to approach defensive fighters, but doesn't it also work allowing defensive fighters like Morty to get away better?

[dusk geyser]

allows you to maintain momentum in the air after a jump

[frozen geyser]

You now conserve grounded momentum after a jump

[merry kiln]

ooh so slightly like the beta?

[frozen geyser]

Yeah

[merry kiln]

because in the beginning of this version it felt like doing anything off stage was a death wish compared to the beta

[frozen geyser]

And they stated your speed won’t be limited by your max air speed

[merry kiln]

obviously I got used to it but it was still bad

[frozen geyser]

But they said this only happens for a grounded jump and not an aerial jump

So no beta level dodge jump out of disadvantage

[dusk geyser]

doing jab1 locks you into the ground right? Like I can't for instance dash jab cancel and maintain that momentum by jumping afterwards?

[frozen geyser]

Well, there’s a 15f lockout for dodging after jab

[dusk geyser]

damn 😔

[frozen geyser]

So I don’t think that’ll be useful

[dusk geyser]

was hoping for more tech lol

[frozen geyser]

That was done to remove dodge jab loops

[dusk geyser]

ooooh yeah

[frozen geyser]

And there’s also a 15f lockout for jumping after jab too

To remove jab nair loops

[dusk geyser]

sadge

well, guess we'll have to see how the slight speed increase works for the whole cast

I feel like it just makes defensive fighters more defensive?

[frozen geyser]

I’d rather them have just added a lockout for jab into nair than jab into jump or dodge

But like oh well

[merry kiln]

what do you mean?

[dusk geyser]

I was hoping to carry the quick momentum from the dodge jab cancel into a jump. But Hoagie reminded me that you get a 15f lockout after doing jab or dodge

[merry kiln]

only after jab 2

[dusk geyser]

oh? 🧐

[frozen geyser]

I mean, why would you not just dodge jump then?

Dodge jab jump is just extra steps for likely a lot less momentum

[dusk geyser]

To let me escape if I miss my jab 😂

[frozen geyser]

Oh lol

[merry kiln]

servers up y'all

are characters smaller or is it just me?

[frozen geyser]

I mean, if you whiff a jab there’s no chance window

You can only cancel on hit which is intentional

Just don’t whiff

[dusk geyser]

so it I can cancel on hit, makes me wonder if I can dodge jab into nair with the changes to movement 🧐

bros im trying to cook but all I know to make is ramen

[orchid wave]

No shaggy buffs

[merry kiln]

y'all I think IG is still up there 😭

[dusk geyser]

how do the air changes feel?

[merry kiln]

very benefitial for IG

I haven't tried shaggy yet

I'm already getting dodged in ranked

[frozen geyser]

Probably but only time will tell

[hybrid mural]

how are neither of shaggy's martial arts skins considered sports attire? 😭

[merry kiln]

shaggy feels slightly better

[mild fjord]

the buff is shirt rip is back

[merry kiln]

anyone on pc feeling a few performance issues?

[dusty walrus]

Haven’t played the new patch yet

[supple trench]

Zoinks!

[merry kiln]

someone help me my rank is going from bronze 2 to 4 to 3 to 2 to 3 to 1 ????

[supple trench]

Be good

[dusk geyser]

sounds like first day ranked bugs lol

[merry kiln]

I'm on an 80% win rate it looks fine for everyone else?

[dusk geyser]

submit the bug w/screenshots to pfg. They might take ranked down if this is a common thing

[merry kiln]

where?

I'M IN SILVER 5 NOW??

what is this

[dusk geyser]

could probably do bug reporting or their twitter

[frozen geyser]

I’m wondering if your rank changes based on the general population

[merry kiln]

uh no I don't think so

but it got fixed after I got to silver

#6 shaggy !!!

[frozen geyser]

I can’t wait to see the huge influx of people claiming to be the #1 of x character after playing like 3 games of ranked

Promptly ignore anyone claiming to be the best of x character without actual tournament results

[dusk geyser]

i dropped so much, I'm probably like bottom 5000

[merry kiln]

you can check in your characters

[dusty walrus]

Not to brag, but I’m the #1 Shaggy in my household

[dusk geyser]

i will once I'm home : )

gonna also get right to playing Jack in ranked lol

[merry kiln]

oh you mean rank? it's only for ranked mode

[frozen geyser]

Ok yeah the Morty dirt nerf did literally nothing

He’s easily still top 3

So all he really got was buffs

[mortal axle]

so cool

[frozen geyser]

Dude people are already diamond rank lmao

Joker might not be top 3 anymore

The nerfs actually hurt his combo game

[bleak roost]

these patch notes are fkn ridiculous

also currently watching bhands and somehow shaggy can loop samurai jack with jab jab dtilt for a bit

[frozen geyser]

Alright, got to silver rank which is good enough for now. I’ll grind more ranked later

[bleak roost]

fire

[frozen geyser]

Jack is big

[bleak roost]

also isn't ranked broken rn?

you cant rematch

[frozen geyser]

It’s not forced BO3

[frozen geyser]

Yeah

[bleak roost]

aint no way that's intentional

i'll check it out in a min tho

[merry kiln]

how???

[frozen geyser]

It’s not. They sent a tweet or something about it

They had to disable rematches for some reason

[frozen geyser]

Probably just never stopped playing since ranked dropped

[bleak roost]

hm

[mortal axle]

they said it'll be fixed in a hotfix, as its intended to be a best of three

[bleak roost]

binging a broken ranked is crazy

[frozen geyser]

Yeah forced BO3 is really good

[bleak roost]

yeah

[frozen geyser]

I don’t get why other fighting games like Tekken can’t follow suit

A lot of people one-and-done in ranked to try and abuse gimmicks to cheese their way to a higher rank than their actual skill level

Jake might actually be a real character now

His nair buff is actually pretty huge

Nair -> uair 1,2 will straight up kill like 2/3 of the way to the top blast zone

[dusk geyser]

jack fun af

[glad marten]

Fr

He's got some crazy kill moves too

His combo game feels a bit lackluster but maybe I just haven't found his combos yet

[dusk geyser]

i think i saw someone clip a true, have to incorporate grab into it tho

the only basic combo I found was jab 1, 2, utilt

damn I was 1 person away from being the #666th

#clips message

[dusty walrus]

Their grass has been left untouched

[frozen geyser]

That’s a funny way to put that. Imma steal that line

[glad marten]

Is ranked even about skill?

You gain like 20+ RP when you win and lose like 2 when you lose

As long as you're winning 10% of your matches, you have a positive gain

[merry kiln]

I was just thinking about that

it’s like beta mmr at the end of the game

[glad marten]

I mean I'm still in silver so ig I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe it gets better around gold/platinum

[frozen geyser]

They said you don’t really have a penalty until gold iirc

[merry kiln]

no the most I lost was 2 and I’m in platinum 3 I think

stopped playing like 4 hours ago

[glad marten]

Oh man

So ranked really is just about who no lifes it hardest?

[merry kiln]

top dog for 60 days

[frozen geyser]

Oof

[merry kiln]

I just asked someone in master, they said the most they lost was 15 to 20

[glad marten]

Well at least I'm guaranteed to get the skins ig

Also I think ranked is designed to where if you hit gold, you are permanently in gold no matter what

At least that's what I got out of the notice they placed

[dusk geyser]

WOW dcing during ranked feels bad

[waxen pine]

^^^^^^^

[dusty walrus]

About to hop on the game to play ranked

Yeah Jack seems like he’ll be a tough matchup

He dies early tho

[glad marten]

Everyone dies early to you lmao you play Shaggy

[frozen geyser]

Not as early as Arya or Tom tho

[dusty walrus]

True

[dusty walrus]

That’s the beauty of it all 🙏

[frozen geyser]

But it’s definitely a losing matchup

[glad marten]

Nah Shaggy wins the MU

[dusty walrus]

No

[frozen geyser]

You wish

I don’t think it’s as bad as Finn but it’s close

[dusty walrus]

I just got Jack into Finn lmao

[glad marten]

No way Jack is anywhere near as bad as Finn

Finn has a 0td

Jack barely has a combo

[dusty walrus]

Jack literally just came out, so I can’t fully judge the matchup, but I do think Shaggy loses

Although we’ll have to wait and see how badly he does

[frozen geyser]

People are gonna find stuff and it’s sword vs Shaggy

Dude they gotta fix Finn

Fastest 0-3 of my life

3 zero to deaths off of utilt and I lost

[glad marten]

Balanced character that's clearly just a skill issue you should've just not been hit fr

[frozen geyser]

Of course

[glad marten]

Shaggy definitely counters Jack lmao

Faster jab, MUCH higher kill power, better combos some how, he has everything over Jack

[frozen geyser]

Nice bait

[glad marten]

Not bait, unfortunately

Shaggy is just better than Jack

Jack has larger hitboxes but does that matter if you can just dodge in and jab and you've got a free like 20+ damage?

[dusk geyser]

LOL

that one was funny

[glad marten]

Jacks garbage no matter how you put it 🤷‍♂️

He has healthy kill power (which is useless in a game where the top tiers either win by hitting you at 0% or kill you at 80%)
He has weak combo game (also not helpful, if you didn't notice Shaggy suffering from it at all)
And most of his attacks have insane whiff (unhelpful!!!)

He's easily the worst swordie in the game

Not really fair though when the competition is Finn and Arya

@dusty walrus double embed failure don't go deleting it now 🗣️

[dusty walrus]

😔

It won’t hit the same unfortunately

[dusk geyser]

#clips message

Does this mean I'm top 100 for Jack in my region?

It does!!! :DDD #clips message

[willow beacon]

What's the best gold perk to run on Jack

[bleak roost]

i just got lagswitched i think 😭

[merry kiln]

arya is unfightable using shaggy..

out of my last 10 losses 9 of them were aryas

[merry kiln]

#clips message like bfr???

[willow beacon]

Fourth time's the charm

[frozen geyser]

Jab 2 just whiffing randomly against Arya only adds insult to injury

[delicate latch]

I hope ur character gets destroyed

In a good way

[frozen geyser]

[merry kiln]

what even is the counter play?

[dusk geyser]

to die

I can't believe they released ranked without looking into that bug.
Maybe it's part of a bigger hitbox issue.

First they made the hurtboxes more accurate instead of pill shaped. Then they slowed down the gameplay and changed the sizes of the characters.

With Arya being so small and Shaggy's increase in size they did not account for his Jab 2 whiffing whenever Arya does the animation that whips her head back after getting hit.

In conclusion, they should give Shaggy's jab more range 😎.

Give him some sort of aura that coats his fists while also increasing the jab distance so it doesn't look out of place

#off-topic message

Just like this

[frozen geyser]

Idk because I haven’t found it

Arya does more combo damage, has a better neutral, has a better disadvantage, has reliable kill confirms that never drop, and has more range

The only thing Shaggy has over her is that he’s heavier

[glad marten]

5% I think
Spending focus on grounded down b is pointless and shadow step doesn't seem to do anything even on counter, maybe it's better in 2s though
The not losing focus perk on respawn just spawns you with like 2 hits worth of focus, not worth much

[glad marten]

To not use your jab, unfortunately

Is Shaggy the only one who can't jab Arya?

[frozen geyser]

I think so

Jab 2 is so stubby and I don’t think that’s an issue with anyone else

The only other character I recall whiffing jabs on hit as is T&J where jab 4 will always whiff if you hit jab 1 too close to the opponent

[glad marten]

These devs surely must be aware of some jabs not working as intended

Especially jabs with charged final hits

[frozen geyser]

Don’t worry Joker’s still works fine

[glad marten]

Sometimes my input charges when I dont charge and my 3rd hit wont work

[glad marten]

Oh boy that sure is great! Whatever would Joker do without that 3rd hit that doesn't benefit him?

Jokers jab 1 is way too broken tbh

[frozen geyser]

Thankfully they added another 6 frames of whiff lag

[glad marten]

It's like a blackhole that pulls you into the best ladder and juggle in the game

[dusk geyser]

how y'all feel about Jack's jab? 👀

[glad marten]

Jacks jab is solid but jab 1 has abysmal hitstun and jab 2 barely has hitstun so unlike most characters he's actually not reliant on hitting jab for a combo

I think thats pretty cool tbh

[merry kiln]

but then what can we approach with? everything barely connects

like the nair

and what's our kill confirm?

[glad marten]

Yeah I've always thought Arya was a bad MU for Shaggy

Honestly she's been a bad MU regardless of who I play
Maybe it's just a crazy skill diff but it's actually impossible to hit her

[dusk geyser]

I do like that jab 2 comes out incredibly fast, people are still getting used to it but once you figure that out he's easier to approach.

People now dodge jab 1 and get smacked by the jab 2

and it's super easy to turn around too

I only got to Gold III last night so I'm wondering how people are gonna react at higher levels

[merry kiln]

maybe it's the fact that her down tilt has everything

dodges, dodges without dodge meter

forward, backwards

up

down

[glad marten]

I was hoping you were doing some reversal "haha, baited the baiter!" kinda thing here and ranked DOES get better when you reach gold but it, in fact, does not get better

FREE SAMURAI JACK FORTNITE GALAXY SKIN 🗣️🔥

[glad marten]

Yeah she's really annoying to fight as like anyone

Barely even matters that she's light because you can never land kill moves to begin with

[merry kiln]

what

[dusk geyser]

what do u mean

[glad marten]

I was hoping Jenette was trying to do a little trolling and say ranked doesn't work properly even at later ranks

Jenette was not trolling

Ranked does not work

Ranked is a broken mode based on play time rather than skill

[willow beacon]

Harley's slide shouldn't have the range it has rn imo

[frozen geyser]

You can still connect with jab 2 from dodge jab using the extra sliding momentum to connect it

But you can’t just land a raw jab 1,2 because jab 2 will usually whiff

I think the best guaranteed jab confirm against Arya assuming no dodge jab is jab 1 -> utilt -> uair lmao

And not reverse utilt

It has to be regular utilt because jab 1 doesn’t have enough hitstun to do reverse utilt

[dusk geyser]

oooh yeah makes sense.
Honestly, I'm not even looking for skill based at the moment. I just want that damn master ranked skin and I will abuse Jack in his current state to get it LOL

1 and done matches too :))

[frozen geyser]

Batman’s slide shouldn’t have the same body block property that Harley’s did until they removed it from her

[glad marten]

Jacks not even anything crazy tbh it's just a lack of counterplay knowledge

[frozen geyser]

His side special is legitimately a really good move tho

[dusk geyser]

that with one and done matches, i'm gonna try to get him to masters before people get too used to him and pfg pushes out some nerfs

[glad marten]

Eh it's VERY predictable, isn't a combo move, and isn't a crazy kill move

[frozen geyser]

It covers a lot of space, you can vary the timing, and it’s very disjointed

I’ve tried but I can’t parry on reaction

[glad marten]

It's not disjointed, it hits anyone anywhere along the line

[merry kiln]

in what situation does arya whiff for long and close enough for you to dodge jab

[glad marten]

Parrying on reaction is almost impossible with input delay and such tight timing

[frozen geyser]

Yeah exactly

[dusk geyser]

Is the best way to dodge it just going above the line/distance?

I've found the line isn't exactly accurate if it's a tap and not charge.

He stops just short of the end

[frozen geyser]

I’ve gotten my feet clipped jumping over it

[glad marten]

Yeah but I think his sword will swing far enough to reach the tip of the line

You can definitely go over it but Jack can angle it up and down a considerable bit

[frozen geyser]

Yeah you kinda just have to wait it out

Then you can try and punish with a dodge attack

[glad marten]

If you're high enough he'll never hit you though, I'd either get out of the line or jump up close to him

[frozen geyser]

Dodge jab or dodge jump nair or sair

[dusk geyser]

It has less endlag if you're in the air too, like shaggy kick

[glad marten]

They probably do that because their side bs are like their only efficient recovery moves

[merry kiln]

and no one in the right mind should go for it because the jabs will just end up falling off anyway (I do it)

[frozen geyser]

There is one thing Shaggy does have going for him in the matchup

[dusk geyser]

I find that Jack also has crap ledge recovery.

D special and uair is his only fast enough tools to counter ledge campers because side special is too predictable

[frozen geyser]

I almost don’t wanna say because I don’t want Shaggy neutered any more than he already is

[merry kiln]

there's only 3 of us here

won't hurt

[glad marten]

What is it so I can ask Tony to kill Shaggy

I got him on speed dial fr

[frozen geyser]

The beta jab 1,2 stomp loops work on Jack because in his hurt animation, he extends his foot downwards enough to get hit by jab

He appears to be the only character this works on to my knowledge

[dusk geyser]

this is crazy that hurt animations contribute to if combos can string or fail 😔

just like arya

[glad marten]

Dair can he super safe against ledge campers, he has something somewhat similar to Jokers handshake, just more precise and less effective because Jokers broken and piss easy, and yeah up air is REALLY fast

[frozen geyser]

Jason can’t parry projectiles when facing towards them because his dodge animation has him recoil backwards which perfectly avoids the projectile long enough to miss the parry active frames

[glad marten]

Someone, probably a top Arya, would be crying about "MY HURTBOX LITEWAWWY WASNT THERE!!!" Bs when an attack whiffs because of the hurt animation tbf

[frozen geyser]

As if you’d ever want to parry projectiles tho

[dusk geyser]

More Ls for Jason 😔

[frozen geyser]

Unfortunately

I’ve played like 7 or 8 Jason’s in ranked and only lost to one which was a close game

[dusk geyser]

Ngl I love dair so much and spam the hell out of it. The hitbox is EGREGIOUS

and it comes out so fast

[frozen geyser]

I wish dair actually comboed into literally anything at low percents tho

It’s basically useless until around 40%

[merry kiln]

it works on everyone whenever it feels like working

[frozen geyser]

Idk I’ve had it whiff on even Jason

But it’s 100% consistent on Jack

[dusty walrus]

Ok so I’m not tripping

[dusk geyser]

funny actually, I'm struggling with some Jasons as Jack.
He doesn't really have a kill confirm (from what I've tested/seen so far) so most people are surviving to 150.

That's why I use PTA and Last Stand on him with 5% lol

Fighting Jason without an easy kill confirm is hell. He has so
much knockback and lives for so long so if you mess up once he can turn it around.

all I can do to fight him is try to keep him in the jab 1,2 utilt string until I get focus.

Or wait until he gets to ledge and jab 1,2 utilt. Some stages have easy blast zones on the side

[glad marten]

His dair is really weird to use
I'm used to everyone elses dair that hits below them but his hits 5 feet ahead of him

[frozen geyser]

You need to edgeguard. That’s how I lose the vast majority of my stocks

[dusk geyser]

fr i gotta get better at edging

[frozen geyser]

Read a recovery and go for air down special to spike them

[glad marten]

Yeah Jack relies on edge guarding/early cheese kills with up b > up air

[frozen geyser]

Deceptively long ranged

[dusk geyser]

I've caught a few people with it 5ft below him too

one 5ft behind that might've been lag lol

[glad marten]

Air down b doesn't spike

It looks like it should

But it doesn't

It sends them HORIZONTALLY

[dusk geyser]

Is there a sweetspot? I've had some air downs spike and some go horizontally

if im hit by the tip of it I go straight down

[merry kiln]

you don't have to dodge against jason

[glad marten]

Maybe theres a sweet spot but I dont remember it in the description

[dusk geyser]

typical pfg

[glad marten]

Dair apparently has a sweet spot but even if I hit where it says it is there's no special sound or knockback change

[frozen geyser]

No I mean that jab 1 whiffs after stomp

Without dodge

[dusk geyser]

love how we're talking in Shaggy chat since Jack chat isn't out yet 😔

[frozen geyser]

Oh it isn’t?

I didn’t bother looking lol

[merry kiln]

I'm in masters five, I'm gaining like 4 RP and losing just as much

[waxen pine]

Bro what

The 24 hour grind must go crazy lmao

[merry kiln]

I'm actually on 5 hours

[dusk geyser]

oooooh makes sense.
So if you want to maintain masters it's hell.
But to get to masters so you can unlock the skin should be pretty easy

thats all I want lol

[frozen geyser]

Dude the top 4 people yesterday reached masters rank in like 6 hours

Like geez I wish I had that much free time to just grind ranked first hours

I played for like an hour yesterday and I’m silver 3 I think

But I’ve noticed I’m consistently running into more and more Morty and Finn

I can only imagine why…

[merry kiln]

wait I forgot there was a skin

there goes my season's purpose

[frozen geyser]

What do you mean?

Are you only playing ranked for the skin?

[merry kiln]

no honestly I just wanted to play but I didn't think it would be this fast

I'm not gonna complain

[waxen pine]

Fair enough

Good stuff either way 👍

[dusk geyser]

Yup! Only reason right now. I love Jack and want the skin. Then gonna do some rifts to complete the battlepass

to get his other skin : )

[dusk geyser]

the clouds on it are sick as hell

[merry kiln]

y'all know what's worse than arya as shaggy?

the top 3 aryas

over and over

again

I'm actually gonna jump off everytime I queue into them

[dusk geyser]

Not a hell I want to subject myself to at all

[half current]

Is shaggy good rn

[glad marten]

He's solid

Some of the highest kill power in the game

Very strong jab

I don't like him though he feels lame

[merry kiln]

the game ran out of people to give me now I'm only going against the best players that are all the way across the globe

[dusk geyser]

You are playing on Wednesday afternoon lol

guess it'd be like late evening for people across the globe

[frozen geyser]

He’s ok. Upper half of the cast, but certainly no top tier

[merry kiln]

that's not the issue it was already laggy enough :(

[frozen geyser]

He’s lost a lot of sauce since rerelease

[merry kiln]

like why couldn't they just let me fight people near me

they don't want me to have it easy

[dusk geyser]

pfg hates ya

[frozen geyser]

It’s probably because there’s hardly anyone at your rank yet

It’s day 2

[dusk geyser]

its because you popularized the shaggy reverse utilt combo by posting in clips

[frozen geyser]

I was like #82 at silver 3

[dusty walrus]

Built different fr fr

[dusty walrus]

Reverse up tilt lowkey goes crazy

[frozen geyser]

Honestly they could’ve left in the confirm because the nerf to aerial up b was enough for it no not even kill at 80

Against mid weight characters

[glad marten]

Killing most characters at 80 or lower was NOT okay 😭🙏

[dusk geyser]

fr I saw a comment on this discord saying that someone shouldn't be killed at 100% LOL

[dusk geyser]

the name slaps tbh

[glad marten]

I mean depends on character, map, and position

[merry kiln]

😭

I'm actually gaining 4 and losing 10 now help me

[frozen geyser]

I think they have the wrong game

[merry kiln]

#2 shaggy and #6 in the world

wish I had the energy to keep going this drained the life out of me

can't wait to change my discord nickname

[frozen geyser]

So is it really just top dog but over 56 days?

[merry kiln]

yes until you reach masters

unless they changed it for every rank too

[frozen geyser]

I’ll find out after work

[merry kiln]

it only really felt like ranked at masters

I actually lost more than I gained

[frozen geyser]

Probably because the only people at master rank are also people who no lifed for a day to grind ranked

Aka not any lower skilled players

I’ll need to team up with a competent teammate to grind 2v2 ranked at some point

But I’ll probably grind out gold rank tonight and then maybe platinum tomorrow

[merry kiln]

I admit I really shouldn't have played as much as I did

I feel lightheaded lol

but the thing is I still went against lots of people from any rank really

[frozen geyser]

I’m figuring I’ll go up one tier per day give or take depending on how easy or difficult it is

So far silver has been smooth sailing outside of a few Morty’s and Finn’s

Lot of Jason’s I kinda feel bad for because they just get stomped

[merry kiln]

you should probably consider doing a bit more because when they bring bo3s to it people are speculating the end of each set will give you the same amount of rp

which would be horrible

[frozen geyser]

And obviously everyone is playing Jack

[frozen geyser]

I’m hoping it’s more for a 2-0 but the same as now for a 2-1

[merry kiln]

that's just time wasting

3 games for the same amount you get right now for one?

[frozen geyser]

I mean, it could also just count each match individually but force a BO3

So like say you win and get 20 RP, then lose and lose 5 RP, then win again and get another 20 RP

[merry kiln]

if it's anything like top dog I wouldn't have my hopes up

[frozen geyser]

Yeah I’m really hoping top dog wasn’t a “beta test” of ranked

Top dog is literally just playtime

Maybe things will even out when more people reach higher ranks

[dusk geyser]

First comment on Samurai Jack channel 🗣️

[frozen geyser]

Ok I lied the Joker nerfs did nothing

He still has 0-60 combos

[glad marten]

He has 0td

[frozen geyser]

I don’t doubt it

Also Shaggy definitely loses to Jack

[dusk geyser]

but-but Zypten says that Shaggy can use meter to dodge in jab and get a free 20 damage!

[frozen geyser]

You just have no options off stage and his side b trades with rage kick and kills you at 70

Like not even rage can save you

[dusk geyser]

Shaggy Issue 😔

Make my schizophrenic dreams a reality and give Shaggy some aura on his fists to extend jab range

gimme shaggy gojo!!!
SHOJO!!!!

#off-topic message

[frozen geyser]

Shaggy has a better punish game on Jack sure but the trade off of never being able to get off ledge makes it Jack favored

[dusk geyser]

don't make my two mains fight each other 😩

[frozen geyser]

And Jack easily has the most range of any character

[dusk geyser]

fr, I love that all it takes is 1 dodge and I'm already in Morty Striking distance

[glad marten]

Cope take

[frozen geyser]

Name a character with more range

[dusk geyser]

Jake technically? For melee

[frozen geyser]

The only stubby moves Jack has are jab 1 and up b

[dusk geyser]

Even then, his foot isn't as stubby as Shaggy jab

🗣️ I LOVE BEING ABLE TO HIT PEOPLE !! 🗣️

[dusty walrus]

So true!!!

This option can never be baited out

[frozen geyser]

Actually jab 1 isn’t even stubby. It’s just not a sword

[glad marten]

Finn, Iron Giant, BG, WW, Jake in theory

[dusk geyser]

Not in a billion years.
Never will I ever feel bad about getting my dash punch baited and wasting half my meter >:V

[merry kiln]

hey guys I'm #1 girl gamer

#5 in the world

I'm gonna start advertising it in my name and everywhere I go

also masters 1

[dusk geyser]

gz on masters and jack skin

[merry kiln]

gz?

[frozen geyser]

Finn Jab is the only larger move, IG and Jake don’t have disjoints and you can hit their arms, BG air side b is the only move, and WW lasso is the only move

[glad marten]

All of Finns moves are larger, all of BGs moves are larger, most of WWs moves are larger

[dusk geyser]

means congratulations

2000s ahh internet slang

[frozen geyser]

Try to explain how BG nair is larger

I’ll wait

[glad marten]

Bro went to the lab to find one move with a smaller hitbox than Jacks

[frozen geyser]

Jack’s sair is also larger

[merry kiln]

tyy

[glad marten]

How does Shaggy not win the match up LMAO

You can just infinite Jack into your kill range and then win

[frozen geyser]

Dude stop trolling

[glad marten]

Jack loses to Shaggy dawg

[merry kiln]

I think a good Jack wins

but that might be because it hasn't been long enough

[frozen geyser]

It’s not an infinite lmao

You can do 3 loops and then it stops working

Less if the Jack DI’s out to get to ledge

You’re only saying Jack loses because he’s a day 2 character

People haven’t discovered his combos and kill setups

Not yet

[glad marten]

Jack doesn't have kill setups is the thing

His attacks all have abysmal hitstun

[frozen geyser]

You get ground bounce on a lot of them and then boom combos

Not that hard

If you can’t combo with him it’s a skill issue

Go into the lab and figure stuff out

[glad marten]

Yeah he can't combo lmao

He can land a few strings at low %

[frozen geyser]

You’re clearly not trying

Oh @merry kiln jab 2 also whiffs on Harley

[frozen geyser]

I lied it’s only twice on DI out

[merry kiln]

I've fought at least 30 harleys, it can fall off sometimes but it's not gizmo or arya level

[dusty walrus]

I gotta get on the ranked grind tonight

[frozen geyser]

I had it whiff 3 times in a row

[dusty walrus]

Harley is just cringe imo

(I am bad at the matchup)

[frozen geyser]

Idk if it’s winning or losing for Shaggy. Might be even

It’s certainly better than beta

[dusty walrus]

It feels that way yeah

[dusty walrus]

How bad was it in beta? I never played beta.

[frozen geyser]

One of Shaggy’s worst matchups

[glad marten]

Harley was just broken in the beta tbf

[frozen geyser]

Yeah she had an infinite even with attack decay

[glad marten]

You're delusional

[dusk geyser]

hii zypten

[dusty walrus]

> Provides no arguments to prove his point

[glad marten]

My point is: Jacks side b will lose to Shaggy's rage side b EVERY TIME

Hoagieland is delusional and huffing insane amounts of copium

[dusty walrus]

How often is Shaggy getting rage tho

[deft viper]

it s true ( sadly tested with a match )

[glad marten]

After every stock at least, any time he reaches 100% if he runs that perk

[deft viper]

shaggy's rage gets him armor so u cant do anything

unless u use the shield break perk

[dusty walrus]

Actually I forgot that perk existed lmao

[glad marten]

Neutral B (air) breaks armor

[deft viper]

maybe that could work

[deft viper]

yes

hard to time it against a side b shaggy tho

but if u have rage too u should win it as a jack

[dusty walrus]

I’ll just wait and see how Jack’s meta develops, but I think in most scenarios (where Shaggy would not have rage), it is harder for Shaggy to win neutral than Jack

[glad marten]

Jacks focus specials won't beat Shaggy's enraged specials

[deft viper]

yes

[deft viper]

what about neutral special air and ground?

curious on how they interact

[glad marten]

As long as you land air while he's in startup, it wins

On thr ground it might lose because Shaggy's enraged specials all break armor, for whatever reason

[deft viper]

otherwise it s lost

[dusty walrus]

He needs it !!!

[deft viper]

thought i was drugging myself when i saw this thing happening

[glad marten]

Nuh-uh

Shaggy's enraged specials already deal 30 damage and kill anyone at like 60% they do NOT need armor break

[deft viper]

yea

shaggy is just a glass cannon at this point

or a cleaner

stressed to see characters surviving at 110+? Get shaggy for free right now!

[dusty walrus]

No he needs it because I’m bad at neutral, and I like when the game plays it for me

[deft viper]

with one single move you ll be able to one shot them all pests!

[glad marten]

You know glass cannon means low health high damage, right? Shaggy is not a glass cannon, he's just a regular cannon

[deft viper]

oh yeah u re right

let me rephrase it

he s a living nuke

[frozen geyser]

Dude it’s literally traded every time

[glad marten]

Me when I lie

Shaggy's side b enraged breaks armor and has armor

Jacks focus side b fully charged I think has armor but it doesn't break armor, which means Shaggy's side b wins

[frozen geyser]

Dude I’m speaking from experience

You have no idea what you’re talking about

I don’t know why it trades

All I know is that it does for some reason

[green tinsel]

stop side spamming you mouth breathers

all of the shaggy i ffight do this

you are lowkey carried by your character

RCrusoe if you are here you only won cause of the dumb conection issues

[glad marten]

I'm also speaking from experience???

It never trades

I tried it after seeing you say it does

It doesn't

Jack loses EVERY time

[frozen geyser]

Idk then I got unlucky 5 times in a row

What do you want me to say?

[glad marten]

I want you to say "I, Hoagieland, was a fool to deny the words of our god king Zypten! I will never doubt your teachings again, oh great ruler!"

[merry kiln]

for me I don't have much trouble with harley, but she can be annoying

[frozen geyser]

I, Hoagieland, am asking you to stop trolling

[dusty walrus]

Btw have y’all gotten any good use out of Shaggy’s rage neutral b

[glad marten]

It's great in 2s to quickly rescue your teammate because of its teleportation function and it's okay in 1s as a sort of parry

[merry kiln]

it used to be so good in the beta

but now it’s just a waste of charge

just like the sandwich

[dusty walrus]

Got it

I was tryna mess around with it to see if it could do anything cool, but it’s kind of not worth going for in games

[merry kiln]

in the beta it could combo into dair

now it sends them up

rage down special used to be so useful in the beta

because the armor started the second you started the move, so you could bait them into approaching then dodge cancel into up special and kill at zero

or just the up special alone

unfortunately up special doesn’t connect properly in the air anymore

[frozen geyser]

Yeah. It’s big and has armor (granted it’s slower on startup compared to a dodge), and it has pretty high base knockback and knockback scaling. I’ll use it as a “you dropped your combo near the blastzone” kill move or as a panic option for someone rapidly approaching while I’m just finishing charging rage. I find it less useful in 2v2 because you don’t have armor while traveling towards your teammate unlike in beta

[dusty walrus]

Interesting

[dusk geyser]

getting through ranked is costing my sanity lmao

finally reached plat 4 the other night

[dusk geyser]

The poopy thing about ranked is that matches are based of hidden MMR instead of your actual ranking. So as a bronze you could fight masters if your MMR is good enough 🫠

(Discord timed me out for saying Spitty with an H instead of Poopy. Did not know that was a timeout when you can say crap)

[frozen geyser]

I spent the time in the past 2 days to get to gold 4, but it’s definitely more of a slog than I was expecting

25 RP per win in silver but only 14 RP per win in gold

[dusk geyser]

Hmm, now that you say that I don't think it's standard...

For me it's +17rp/-8rp in plat

[dusk geyser]

i also encountered zypten in ranked the other night and he kicked my butt

have not beaten that man in a single match yet

[frozen geyser]

I haven’t encountered anyone from this server in ranked yet

[frozen geyser]

I wonder what the criteria is for how much you get

Like does it depend on stock difference? Player rank difference? Matchup?

[merry kiln]

I thought stock difference was it because I got more in early ranks for 3-0 or 3-1 but later on I got like 2 rp for 3 stocking and like 15 for a 3-2 game against someone in silver

and it’s definitely not rp or mmr either because I only got like 11 for beating bobo 3 different times

[dusk geyser]

I don't think it depends on stock difference too.
I had an opponent rage quit mid match and went 3-0 on him.
Only got 15rp

[dusty walrus]

Dumb question, but what does MMR stand for

Is it like your win rate?

[dusty walrus]

Come down to Silver and join me 🔥

I gotta play with some of y’all one day

So I can learn how to actually be good at the video game

[merry kiln]

it’s obviously gonna be a bit laggy but we can play

[dusk geyser]

Match Made Ranking

Essentially it takes your WR/DMG/maybe other hidden factors like accuracy of hitting attacks

[merry kiln]

I think I’m the only none na player here

[merry kiln]

it’s matchmaking rating

[dusk geyser]

oops haha back when I was playing league in 2010 the term I learned was match made ranking

[dusty walrus]

Which region are you in?

[delicate latch]

I found an side special spamming Banana Guard on Gold III 😭🙏

[dusty walrus]

I forgot BG even existed ngl

Never see that character anymore

[delicate latch]

I mean there is no reason to play a worse shaggy

[dusty walrus]

True

[merry kiln]

right now asia, I’ll be back in eu in around 2 months or so

but I’ve ran into nearly every top na player for whatever reason

[frozen geyser]

Anyone can easily get gold with enough playtime. You gain like 25 RP per win in bronze and silver and you only lose like 3 RP in silver

You’ll get there. It just takes time

[merry kiln]

that applies to every rank but maybe masters 5 to 1

[frozen geyser]

I mean yeah as long as you can keep a 50% win rate, I’m pretty sure you can get to masters

[deft viper]

if u want we can play together

i am grinding to get atleast diamond

maybe masters

[merry kiln]

I'm gaining 2.. #clips message

[merry kiln]

people are sd'ng twice and askiing me to do the same

what is going on?

[dusty walrus]

Yeah I was playing ranked yesterday and decided to call it a night when I ran into the 2nd Finn and 3rd Arya. I was too tired to keep going after that 😭

[frozen geyser]

I should make a Shaggy matchup chart at some point

I made a tier list of characters for Season 1

But I can certainly say that Arya and Finn are awful matchups for Shaggy

[dusty walrus]

Any character I like fighting = even or winning, and every character I don’t like fighting = losing

[dusty walrus]

Dawg I can never hit Arya

It’s actually so annoying

And then Finn just does Finn things and kills me at 0

[frozen geyser]

Arya just doesn’t get hit by jab 2 for no reason most times and you just don’t get confirms

[frozen geyser]

Dude Hangry Man was the answer to Finn because you could charge free rage whenever he started charging a ground attack. But now Shaggy just loses with no counterplay

[dusty walrus]

Hangry Man nerf makes me sad

[frozen geyser]

A half second charge was a bit ridiculous so like I agree it should’ve been nerfed

[dusty walrus]

Yeah but now it’s basically the same time as without the perk

[frozen geyser]

But like man it only removes like 1 second of charge now and that sucks

It goes from like a 4 second to a 3 second charge

And pulling a sandwich takes an additional like 2-3 seconds

[dusty walrus]

Yeah

Just not worth it anymore

[frozen geyser]

If they made it like 1.5 seconds, then it’d be fine and worth using in some matchups like Finn

[dusty walrus]

Agreed

[frozen geyser]

Even 2 seconds would be fine

[dusk geyser]

The Shaggy vs Finn matchup was the nail in the coffin that made me switch to Jack

[frozen geyser]

I watched the VoiD video he just posted and I totally agree. People keep crying for nerfs and no one is gonna have sauce in this game

And then everyone will quit

[frozen geyser]

Doesn’t help that everyone in ranked plays Morty, Finn, or Jack which all beat Shaggy

[dusk geyser]

PFG just has to not crumble to the casual playerbase.
They're testing the waters with not nerfing Finn since launch lol

[dusk geyser]

Very true. Shaggy needs more sauce

[frozen geyser]

Honestly Finn can keep the zero to deaths if they give him more whiff lag or remove the indefinite charge in his attacks

Maybe instead of indefinite it’s only like 3-4 seconds

[dusk geyser]

Yeah, like what they did with Taz sandwich

[frozen geyser]

Then he can’t just do the Taz utilt strat if just hold it and wait for you to whiff anything