The Iron Giant

[rich vigil]

Assuming they don't make him shaggy sized

[frigid reef]

what I'm saying is IG would be worse off 'cuz they would not change the end lag or whiff. right now all he has is holding neutral-air so when u make him smaller, he could lose neutral-air > down-air techs or neutral-special > neutral-air > side-air. Iron Giant would need a complete rework it can't be just a random change

[vestal birch]

"Rework him after that"

[abstract python]

If they couldn’t get his current kit right after 2 years of having it then I doubt they can get a theoretical 2nd kit right after reducing his size

[frigid reef]

I would love if they released at least one more giant character. then they can do whatever they want with IG

[shy shore]

Giant rlly does need another colossal size character in the roster, it'd help with balancing because atm he's in his own bubble that's difficult to approach because of it being one character. Having 2 means they could atleast try set a benchmark for him and what the archetype is trying to achieve, cuz atm balancing him like a heavy isn't working out

[mint python]

i wish they made

grab work

[deep idol]

marceline is gonna have a giant version, similar to rage mode but she turns huge into a bat

[shy shore]

ye ive seen

[frigid reef]

is there any news for when Sturdy Dodger will return, did Nakat say anything about it?

[frigid reef]

they nerfed us again. that's crazy

[sick atlas]

still no nair revert in patch notes, we are actually cooked

[abstract python]

the nerf is small but still

why we getting cooked

[frigid reef]

iz big nerf. it stopped people from dying at low % to a full charged stomp

[abstract python]

nah u js angle the ball directly down at ledge now

and if theyre too low then u just cannonball dair

is not too bad

[frigid reef]

kinda true I guess

[abstract python]

it begs the question as to why nerf that specifically

did nakat get hit by orb into full charged nair > sair offstage and die at 20

[frigid reef]

weird people on the balance team

hopefully there's a shadow buff

[sour geyser]

Salutations fellow Iron Giants

[regal hound]

All of the giants are dead

😦

[rich vigil]

We all mostly just use the discord

[frigid reef]

which direction should I DI Harley Quinn's side-air? she can spam them nonstop

[abstract python]

Up away near the closest blast zone

[wary fox]

Harley is my nemesis rn

[mint python]

the sair sair sair sair sair sair sair sair combo goes hard

[frigid reef]

unironically, yeah lol

I ko'd a Harley Quinn player at 20% then they come back and side-air me from 0 to 120%

kinda wild I have to know the DI vs. every other character and all of their combo strings

just to be a good Iron Giant

[rich vigil]

You should know how to properly DI combos regardless of who you play

[sick atlas]

most combos are inescapable when done to IG due to his size, some DI is helpful for sure, but really what makes a good IG great, is knowing when to take punishment or when to use bolts

bolts is starting to become more needs to anti-cheese and less about winning a neutral trade, just depends on the situation

[wary fox]

Youre gonna suffer in disadvantage anyway so the biggest diff you can make is to kill off 1-2 interactions

By knowing the options for both and predicting them ofc

[frigid reef]

i dont wanna play IG no more 😭 Tony hates him, he gets whacked every patch

[rich vigil]

The other tanks get nothing but love but we always get shafted

[uncut bronze]

every other tank needs to get the same treatment, they all play like bruisers that never die

[warm canyon]

seems like he would be simple to fix. take away the bolt cheese and just give him armor

[abstract python]

Would make him even worse what

From bottom 3 to bottom 1

Unless ur talking about beta bolts armor

[rich vigil]

I wouldn't mind beta bolts tbh

It'd make scraps feel more meaningful

[abstract python]

they removed it cuz you usually got a free grab off and it put the opponent in big disadvantage but it barely matters when the current bolts is a combo tool that combo starts during hitstun use anyway and can also kill at 0 with the right confirm

current one is better but id prefer the old version

[rich vigil]

You could use the old one to recover too

[abstract python]

Yeah the old one was better defensively which I liked

[sick atlas]

Ig needs some love midseason

[sick atlas]

THEY NERFED HIM. AGAIN.

Ground Side Attack 2

• Fixed an issue where Iron Giant could use this attack and his Air/Ground Up Special at the same time

I dont even know what to say, he lost his biggest tool

[abstract python]

Lmao hes bottom 1 now

Delegated to camping ledge with afterburners and shields

[sick atlas]

he was already contender for bottom 1, I knew this 3 patches ago, they hate this character dude

[proven orbit]

Does anyone here stream with IG? So hard to find his gameplay

[sick atlas]

notice how the messages in this channel are days apart usually? Thats because most players dropped the character due to the serious over-nerfing starting 4 patches ago

finding gameplay on this character is very difficult

[proven orbit]

Now I’m noticing since you mentioned it That’s disappointing I really enjoyed IG even though I felt the difference from those patches(nerfs) but haven’t played the game in over a month unfortunately

So at least been wanting to watch someone who plays with him you know

[sick atlas]

any high level IG gameplay wouldnt be relevant mostly starting today, due to his upspecial jab nerf, not to discourage you. I have some footage with me fighting the #1 finn on leaderboard for a few sets which I won, but like I said, its not relevant honestly

that was half of his neutral for side K0 set ups, which is gone now

[abstract python]

Idk if bobo still streams

But check him

If not then idk

[proven orbit]

Thank you! Is that bobo, on twitch?

[sick atlas]

bobo does not stream lately

[trim crown]

I wish I didn't start liking IG as soon as he was getting gutted on a constant basis

[rich vigil]

Those few weeks where we were uncontested top 1 were beautiful

[sick atlas]

every WW nerf that comes she gets a buff the same time, I dont have fun playing the character anymore

its downhill and I feel like we have hit the bottom now

[mint python]

igs options after shield suck lmao

even though it looks like it utilt doesnt pick most people off your feet its rough

[stone geode]

Good

[rich vigil]

Noob

[stone geode]

actually i play all the time 🤓

[valid imp]

I just want to ask how do iron giant mains feel about playing a broken character

[rich vigil]

You're joking right

Calling iron giant a broken character

[valid imp]

lol yeah and no

[proven orbit]

Lonelydripp- you here? Lol

[rich vigil]

I hope you're not even remotely serious about it being broken

There is nothing redeeming about this character

Anything he can do, others can do better

[mint python]

GAMER! i am here to inform you that this individual was just crying about taz in his channel aswell! dont fall to the ragebait comrade!

[mint python]

is there any way at all to avoid tj upairing you 20 times in a row? i litteraly couldnt get out lmao

[rich vigil]

About Taz?? 😭

[valid imp]

It’s cause I play with Garnet. Smaller characters can turn big body characters to combo food and you can’t deny that

[mint python]

not taking the bait

[abstract python]

No I think he’s js genuinely stupid Ive seen him complain about a lot of nonsense in this server

[valid imp]

I’m not a fisher so there’s no bait to take lol

[valid imp]

Whoa calm down fog horn everyone is able to have an opinion and debate it

[tame sparrow]

Someone hasn't faced pre made iron giant cheese teams in high elo ranked

[rich vigil]

Iron Giant in 2s is playing a 1.5 v 2

[tame sparrow]

I mean sure if your iron giant doesn't know how to play the game and get value out of his over abundance of defensive options and long lockout multi hits

[rich vigil]

Iron Giant is "good" in 2s if your opponent has dropped the controller and is unable to pick it back up

Iron Giant's multihits aren't even good

People fall out of nair and up special all the time

And he doesn't have an "over abundance" of defensive options lol

He has bolts

[tame sparrow]

I think you're forgeting the fact the its 2s, and the irongiants teammate can just rack of dmg in those multi hits

[rich vigil]

Yeah or the opponents could just jump ig

[tame sparrow]

By that I mean half his moves are armored

[rich vigil]

Are you fr right now

Did you just say half of iron giants moves are armored

I'm done

[tame sparrow]

I mean it's pointless to try argue my case, you're not on the receiving end of it

[rich vigil]

@abstract python I cant do ts

This jankass community

[abstract python]

Look at any top player’s tier list and they have IG bottom 5 minimum if people are still gassing this lobotomized tin can in his current state then theres no point in engaging in conversation

[tame sparrow]

Just because something is balanced or bad in the upper echelon of play doesnt mean is it immune to scrutiny

[abstract python]

Your argument was “high elo ranked” and hes dog in high elo🐶

[tame sparrow]

This character is travesty of game design

[tame sparrow]

Pre mades

Using cheese

Not some solo freak going off in the ranked ladder

[abstract python]

❓nvm im gonna follow my original sentiment u got that

[tame sparrow]

Well I tried again to give my case but, pointless

[rich vigil]

Go actually play iron giant and report back

See if you have the opinion

Because I promise you, you wont

[sick atlas]

IG is a noob stomper if you are vaguely confident in playing him, so its understandable that people who dont understand the game at a high level complain (for example this guy talking about his broken multihits which frequently drop and his moves that have armour, aka 1 that is never used)

but if you understand how to capitalize on his poor disadvantage state he is toast

feast or famine character in his current design, you either cheese them at 20% or get 0-120d each stock, rarely in between

also important to point out that talking about IG is very different from 2s to 1s, he is better in 2s, he is bottom tier in 1s

the issue is that the game nerfs around 2s often, so IG has been completely ruined in 1s due to the constant unrelenting nerfs (of which the last 5 or 6 have been overkill)

[mint python]

they shoulda just stopped when we got the longass burst cd

prety much limited to one per stock lmao

[rich vigil]

I really miss nair to up air

[mint python]

i really miss iad after jab

[shy shore]

I miss old dtilt

Where it sent straight up

[sick atlas]

I miss old nair, being able to fall with nair, and up special jab cancel, all the stuff that made him good

[mint python]

they should just give fastfall nair back and put his weight back up

lower burst cd or lower weight

you could just touch buttons and combo ig to 100

[sick atlas]

IG is not getting buffed, they hate the character. WW, Arya, Rick, Batman, Harley, can all sit unchanged top 5 for 3 seasons, dont matter. If they do get nerfed, they get compensation buffs in the same patch so the players dont feel so bad, its embarassing decision making.

tough reality to face but if you like this character, you are only setting yourself up for dissapointment

they failed the players on this one

[mint python]

yeah its crazy how much they overcompensated on nerfing ig compared to everyone else lol

launch ig traumatized people now they cant buff him

[sick atlas]

exactly right. The main reason I dont spend a dime on this game is because I have lost complete faith in the developers to treat characters fairly after the last 6 months, there is CLEAR bias among the devs and its so bad, that the game is struggling

IG doesnt need to be top 1, 5, or 10, but the constant punishment in the last while has made me jaded (obviously)

every patch we need to learn to play with yet another tool gone, not to mention he isnt that great with shields, his out of shield options are HORRIBLE compared to the rest of the cast

[mint python]

they dont even bugfix him lol you still do just randomly burst when neutral dodging

[sick atlas]

bug fixes they give him are only if they are nerfs LOL.

currently,

If you use bolts while touching the ground- you cannot jump for nearly 2 seconds. If this is done while landing, you can jump immediately
As of this patch people are falling out of jab 1
If you grab someone who is shielding, they pop out of the grab every time (completely broken)
up special is completely inconsistent

list goes on but who would listen

[tame sparrow]

So you agree with me completely and affectively restating all the points I'm trying to make but don't trust my skill level in this game to make competent game design points?

[mint python]

also how if you transform back into your normal form from rage you just get stuck mid air even if your doing something like down b

[sick atlas]

I am not discrediting your opinion, I'm just mentioning that IG in 1s, is a horrible character when you hit masters+ - pro level play. in 2s, maybe its a different story.

[mint python]

they should just make all the transformation animations cancellable honsetly just the fact that you gota play that long animation to transform and back makes it not worth it

[sick atlas]

not only that, Rage mode feels WORSE than regular mode now, absolutely terrible design

[tame sparrow]

I'm what I think diamond 3 now, and the only issues I had with ig was in 2s going against pre mades, when I had ig as teammate Ik that game was effectively lost because the amount more effort I had to put in than my teammate basically made it a guaranteed loss

His cheese potential is too high

[sick atlas]

I dont think I am understanding you, I am saying IG is a bad character but you are saying the same?

yes IG has high cheese potential, without it, hed with ZERO games. He is the most exaggerated version of combo food I have ever seen in a plat fighter. Without early kills he will win 0 games, ever

it is the only way to stay competitive

[tame sparrow]

So we're on the same page?

[sick atlas]

I really don't know lol, do you think IG is too strong?

[tame sparrow]

I think he's unplayable in ones, unplayable as a solo in 2s, and irritating in 2s as a pre made

He's just like a shining beacon of showing all this games design flaws

[sick atlas]

yes, he is extremely flawed, and unfortunately, will be left to die from PFG

[tame sparrow]

I think his kit is unsalavagable, it didn't function in this game from the beginning

[sick atlas]

Yes, a rework is sounding necessary, unfortunately, it may be too much work to do. So its easier to leave him in the garbage can

[tame sparrow]

Maybe my irration from his was less from me losing to him and more so my teammates just not knowing what to do and feeding him

But ig that could be said of all my teammates no matter the character

[sick atlas]

I'd say so, and that is not a commentary on you, but team games in general. Solo Qing in anything and being let down by your teammates is always really unfortunate feeling

thats why I like to plays 1s and cry about him being bottom tier anyway

[tame sparrow]

Even playing shaggy the literal best 1s character the game, the game just not built for 1s and it shows, it just feels bad and sluggish to play

[valid imp]

Yeah bro iron giant needs a nerf lol

Bro iron giant has 0tDeaths definitely needs a nerf smh

[valid imp]

Apparently you haven’t seen what Irong Giant can really do. Let me show you #clips message

[valid imp]

#clips message

I just know that no one in here should ever say that IG is terrible or bottom tier in 1’s cause this shows that he is not‼️‼️‼️ #clips message

[sinful dust]

Ngl you played the matchup horribly and let yourself get cheesed

And you played against a top player and he absolutely skill diffed you

[abstract python]

played against a top 3 giant and sold mad kill confirms and its somehow giants fault

also Garnet wins that matchup lmao

"Giant has 0TDs" and its js u letting go of the controller and getting read in disadvantage

gets a shield break and goes for air up special instead of js killing with jab1 ground up special but its giant's fault that he's still not dead

like bro 🐶 💔

damn near every top player has him bottom 5 at the highest because he's a gloried knowledge check and camp victim in his current state

but yeah dude he has "0TDs" either bait or mother had a drinking problem during her pregnancy

[rich vigil]

You played horribly

If you're losing to iron giant as garnet, it's because there's a skill gap

Garnet beat IG before she got buffed and before he got nerfed

Go actually play iron giant and tell me he's still good

[valid imp]

Yall really re delusional in this chat lol but I get it. Actually agreeing with me would mean that you had to admit that he isn’t as bad as yall claim he is lol. Which means it would downplay the “skill” it takes to play with him. Cause If he was so bad then why are yall playing with him?

[abstract python]

Because he's unique to the rest of the cast and we find him fun??

smile politely yall

[valid imp]

With all due respect i believe everyone in here can agree that this game is far from balanced in any form especially with how they keep changing, adding, nerfing, and buffing things. To say things are a skill based issue isn’t the accurate statement to place upon how characters are played or the abilities the character has when not all the characters moves and kit operate on the same frames or mechanics. With some characters having advantages and some have disadvantages. All I’m saying is that iron giant is a bad character and all the top players that place him low base it mainly off the way they can handle him. Cause if iron giant was such a bad character then it wouldn’t be any players that have him in master or grandmaster at that.

[abstract python]

people had season 3 jake in top 10 GM what are we talking about

[sick atlas]

I’m sorry brother but watching that clip and you using it at “proof” is awful. You did the thing you never do vs giant (on a giant favoured map) 3 times and died. Half the cast does what just happened to you but from mid stage

I’m well aware of what he can do, I play the character exclusively and I’ve beaten top players on him. But these are rare instances against good players.

You can grab any characters good game and post it in clips, trying to tell everyone how they are insane top tier material.

It’s consistency and options that matter, things IG does not have

[rich vigil]

Come back when you've tried out iron giant for yourself

Then I will consider taking your opinion seriously

[sick atlas]

id love to see anyone still complaining about him get master on him

[mint python]

if your struggling against ig combos i reccomend attacking out of hitstun instead of trying to dodge

most of the time if someone tries to dodge after hitstun you can just chain nairs on them especially out of stage

[mint python]

i also wonder why people complain about ig surviving on high dmg like hes not a gigantic target that you get to rack up damage on for free

[sinful dust]

He’s literally the easiest character to whiff punish in the entire game on top of being by far the easiest character to juggle

Does IG have any winning matchups anymore?

Or are they all even or losing?

[mint python]

idk tbh

velma is actually way better now because you can actually aproach her with shields

[wary fox]

taz batman finn jack arya (maybe) bugs WW (my opinion)

[sinful dust]

I thought all of those (except Jack) were losing? How does IG win?

[mint python]

ww matchup is diabolical imo

if she just darts in and out of your range with shield 😩

with her armored moves

[wary fox]

like i said its my opinion but i think if you're better you win

either you are better or you have more knowledge

[sick atlas]

Superman is an impossible matchup

theres no counterplay to his neutral strategy

doesnt help that he has no endlag on his moveset, and has multiple command grabs

[valid imp]

#clips message

[sick atlas]

IG does not win the garnet matchup, maybe only when you are playing them Typhoon lol

[valid imp]

Yeah that was the best tip I could use. It’s still incredibly hard to beat IG but I at least got one stock on the #4 GM iron giant player so I’m making progress

[mint python]

any char that can aproach you with armor like jason or with a grab like superman are just really rough

[valid imp]

So how does IG not win when I showed you clip of me getting completely trashed by an IG with Garnet??? Like cmon now you can’t be that deep in delusion and denial

[mint python]

not to mention that you can do litteraly nothing against armor spam of superman lol

[valid imp]

#clips message this is all imma send you. Cause apparently IG is a cery capable and strong character to be able to kill at 40 off stage….i get you may have denial cause you’re not that good with IG but this clip is proof of how dangerous IG is

[sick atlas]

I'm not trying to dog you, honestly, but just because you lose a single game does not mean the matchup goes one way or the other, it requires a sample size. You didnt play it well. Youll get better and start mopping them I am sure

[valid imp]

Sounds like you have a skill gap if you’re glazing garnet that hard lol. Cause how can a clip show me getting 0tDeath by an IG be a skill issue? You can’t do anything in a 0tDeath which is why it is called that like cmon now lol

[sick atlas]

Understand the terminology, 0tD is not guaranteed, but you fell for it, its a matchup knowledge issue. When you start learning the tricks to stop IGs from doing this to you it will be cake

One of these tricks, like mentioned, is to attack out of hitstun when he is attempting to carry you into the blast zone

as a Garnet, maximizing your combo potential is key

[mint python]

^ ig combos in general rely a lot on you panic dodging and reading that

[valid imp]

Yeah I got into my first ranked match today against the same IG player that trashed me in the clip I posted in here and thanks to the advice from @mint python i managed to get at least one stock in each match instead of getting 3-0 so im improving. I just don’t play against a lot of IG players so im not familiar with the match up

[sick atlas]

See that is improvement, and if its against a top IG player, you arent doing too bad, I am sure most of us in this chat are more than happy to give you tips on getting the matchup down, if you can take stocks it means you have the base skill required to get the win, just a practice and knowledge thing now

[valid imp]

I appreciate you saying that and you’re right I just have to get more match up knowledge. I just made statements out of frustration due to how things happened. Some tips would be great although i understand people don’t really like to share tips on their characters weaknesses and how they can be beat but i get it cause it’s part of the game. I’ll keep working on it

I’m sorry to everyone in this chat that i might’ve rubbed the wrong way. I made comments and statements out of frustration due to getting cooked horribly by a really good IG player. So please forgive me‼️ IG is a good character in this game along with others so I’ll work on getting better. Can’t promise I wont talk more stuff but I’ll try to do it on a healthier way lol

[sick atlas]

No need to apologize at all, you are pretty level headed. MVS is a frustrating game to lose in honestly, and we all get cooked eventually. Some days I can beat GM players on their main characters, other days I lose to a platinum WW, it just happens in fighters

[valid imp]

Even if I didn’t have to I still felt like I should’ve because as you said we all get cooked at some point in this game even the top ranked players. So you said some facts for sure. This game is pretty fun in its own way.

[mint python]

oh the marcy mu is terrible

[sick atlas]

unfortunately, there are not many matchups that are "good" for IG, either near neutral or losing

[mint python]

i mean marcys just exceptionally bad

like you cannot go near her and she kills you at 100 with a single unavoidable move bad

[sick atlas]

Yes true, welcome to playing IG against most chars lol

[rich vigil]

Gonna be real I think the best we got in terms of matchups is even

[lime apex]

Is it? Maybe I'm just against bad marcy's, but I haven't had issues myself

Unless you mean 2's, I pretty exclusively play 1's

[abstract python]

Marcy in 1s is still awful lmao

Any good marcy will js infinite giant off any stray hit

[sick atlas]

Marcy overtuned, as expected

[rich vigil]

What I didn't expect is how long it's taking them to fix Marceline

I thought there would for sure be a hotfix for the infinite

[sinful dust]

I’m pretty sure they went on Christmas break

I wouldn’t expect a fix until after the new year

But I’ve taken a back seat and am waiting for the game to get into a playable state

[mint python]

the fact that she just gets to sair or nair ig forever untill they cant read tech is so silly

[sinful dust]

Not even that

Jab to double guitar strum to dodge jab and continue the loop

It works forever with zero ground bounces because you can dodge turn around jab

[mint python]

lol havent had that happen to me yet

thank god

[sick atlas]

To be fair that isnt an IG problem, its an entire cast problem. Character that cost $9.99 is released as disgustingly broken and is forgotten about due to the price.

I have an idea, we get someone on the inside at PFG to release Iron Giant 2 with a huge skin bundle and we can make him playable again

[rich vigil]

I'll volunteer

I'll start as a janitor at player first games

And then when no one is looking

I'll update iron giant to be giga broken again

[copper pasture]

Any IG wanna run rank 2s?

[sick atlas]

sorry buddy at least for myself I hink 2s are boring

I am curious for the rest of you, if you could make 2 buffs to giant, and thats all he gets for 6 months to make him playable again, what would you do?

[rich vigil]

Make nair send up and make down dilt send down

[sick atlas]

I find that interesting, I think nair sending down is better now, Id choose to let us fall during nair again.

[wary fox]

Nair sending up enables nair to up air, nair to up special which kills at 0

Nair sends up, and allow fast fall there it is character is top 5

[rich vigil]

Nair to up air was just really satisfying to hit, that's all I want

[mint python]

iad after jab and give old weight back

ez

[sick atlas]

Nair to up air was really sick actually, good point, so many free kills

[wary fox]

Parry into nair up air 🥵

[mint python]

nvm forget iad give shockwave on rage stomp and old weight back

[sick atlas]

forget shockwave, give us 3s CD bolts back on rage

[mint python]

oh theres so much

yeah true though

the cd is better

[rich vigil]

I do miss the shockwave

I wish they would change it where a fully charged stomp gives the shock wave but anything below that doesn't

[mint python]

they shoulda just stuck with one thing

i think adding the shockwave back now with how much nerfed rage is overall would be balanced and better

they didnt have to hit ig with that double whammy no burst no shock

so now its just litteraly crippling yourself to do it in 1v1 and you do it for the burst in 2s

[sick atlas]

Double Whammy? IG has been 38 whammyd

[frigid reef]

dead game. I'ma go play Marvel Rivals

[sick atlas]

Unforuntately, player numbers are dropping still, the content creation scene is also becoming more dead

[rich vigil]

Why did he feel the need to announce that

[sick atlas]

who me?

he mentioned its a dead game, and he is right, its dying a fast death because the people behind it dont have a clue what they are doing

I'm probably being a bit too harsh but quality is an issue, like play testing marcy before release, did they forget? its problems like these

[rich vigil]

No I meant imawoofus

Like why didn't he just leave

[mint python]

nah playtesters for this game are actualy trash

its crazy how every new character released is either complete garbage or gamebreakingly op

[wary fox]

we are the playtesters this is an alpha dw

[mint python]

fr need to jsut keep posting marceline and ppg 0tds untill they decide to balance

[spare sandal]

Any specific way yall play IG in 2v2s?

[rancid sleet]

target one guy and dodge and NS if they both get on your butt

down special, side special, neutral air

jab to neutral

up special and up air if they’re stunned by the ledge

but if those two players you fight have half a brain you may be done

it’s just luck at that point

[midnight vapor]

is IG good in 2v2s ranked or unranked? I just can't do anything as him with me constantly getting hit due to my huge hitbox or getting double teamed

[rich vigil]

IG is not good

Period

[midnight vapor]

damn, cause I was checking the sight for Global Fighter stats and they said he was S tier

[rich vigil]

Yeah, fighter stats are really misleading. It causes characters with less players to appear better and vice versa. The only iron giant players left are one that are pretty damn good at the game because at this point, you have to be to succeed with iron giant

[mint python]

^^ velma was tracked as god tier for the longest time (still is i think) because theres like 5 just very dedicated players

[midnight vapor]

Oh great, can’t trust those stats anymore haha

[mint python]

did yall know igs grab just doesnt work anymore

if you grab someone and start to jab them out of it theyll just pop out of it when the duration ends anyways

even if you already started jabbing

[rich vigil]

Ain't no way

Why 😭

What did they touch on him to do that

[mint python]

seems like a bug

happened twice in a single game and led me to loose a ranked set though lmao

[midnight vapor]

I wanna get the IG Winter Wonderland skin but idk cause playing as him is so painful

[mint python]

climbing ranked on ig is rng

just playing hoping for someone that doesnt know how to loop you to show up

[mint python]

you cant even up b rocket anymore

you just become invincible to it aslong as the attack is going on and when it ends you immedietly get hit

[sick atlas]

A patch where Iron giant wasnt randomly nerfed

we made it fellas

[pure tiger]

Iron balance

[rich vigil]

Wait till the next major update I'm sure they'll do it again

[mint python]

i think ragemode sideb is bugged aswell lol

people keep randomyl dropping out of it

had someone run into it and just get out in a second

[sick atlas]

Well… it’s been an honour gentleman.

[pure tiger]

Su...per...man...

[mint python]

i wonder

do we get a buff before its all over

let us have one good season to send it off

[rich vigil]

Ofc not

[slim drift]

@stark dragon

[sick atlas]

HOLY CHANGES BATMAN

[trim crown]

IRON GIANT IS A TAD SMALLER?!

[sick atlas]

• Now allows fast fall during attack start-up

WE ARE BACK BABY

[trim crown]

A TAD LIGHTER?! A TAD FASTER?!

Hell yeah

[sick atlas]

dude holy these notes

[sick atlas]

so he feels much nicer to play, but the reduced knockback has eliminated most of this combo game.

some time in the lab is needed to see what can be done, but he feels nice

[abstract python]

hes cheeks now ngl

zero offense

[sick atlas]

it depends, IAD is back as well off jab (these were purposeful nerfs they are calling bug fixes which is odd)

its going to take some labbing to figure out how to kill again, bolts was unchanged

[abstract python]

iad dont mean much if we cant get anything off uncharged nair ima keep it a buck

his combo game kinda dont exist nomore

[sick atlas]

yeah that is a problem, uncharged nair has ruined his kill routes

[abstract python]

ruined his combo game period ngl

cant even do nair into jab for punishing

[sick atlas]

if you charge nair even a little bit does it increase the knockback?

hmmm so far he feels nice to play yeah but his combo game is fried, at least right now he feels even weaker, really unfortunate

he isnt as oppressive but his new speed is good

his grab armour is REALLY good

sadly his cheese is completely gone

[sick atlas]

Mmm honestly, character feels pretty ruined, no punish game whatsoever sadly, that really sucks

you get punished for hitting someone with nair, the hitstun is almost non-existent

[sick atlas]

yeah he is done unless something new is found

[abstract python]

afterburners has no limit anymore btw #clips message

time to get back to camping

[cunning glen]

Still don't know why he doesn't get armor outside the grab.

[sick atlas]

Afterburner stuff is cool, but no combos just leave him buried

[sick atlas]

Not for nothing, here is a few things that have been helping me (Im still getting my ass kicked but I beat a Grandmaster smith in ranked just now)

• If they DI up when you jab jump nair them, up air kill is back in business, kills early and is very good.
• IG armour grab is much better due to early armour, and can be used to surprise characters with strong approach tools
• A large majority of the player base dodges up or away from your non-charge nair now due to it not comboing, after seeing this from your opponent the first time, read accordingly, like jabbing, then jump-dodge charge nairing. The charged nair will allow you to combo off it
• Up special is now more important than ever to try and get edge guard kills with
• Afterburners are good
• Downtilt has been reverted to a few patches ago, if you are jabbing a character at the edge of the stage above 100, jab into down tilt kills many of the cast, or sets them up for a down special edgeguard

[rich vigil]

I haven't tried di up yet but at like mid percents you can combo reverse nair into up special

[cold trout]

Yah you don't really have a lot of choices with the big guy anymore. The jab into dtilt feelts good at ledge like 400 said but other than that the lack of combo options really kills it especially when tons of other characters got a lot added to them in terms of combo ability. As for that combo of jab jump nair upair, havent been able to pull that off yet, the knockback feels too horizontal even when I set a bot to DI up.

I still win games, IG still has the ability to fight so hes not like season 1 jason but his combos are so lacking that it feels terrible to play him.

[shy shore]

Jab Neutral attack can kill pretty early now at the ledge cuz it sends out but it's worse overall at killing but Jab Plant makes up for that

I've been doing jab iad sair mostly now, just guarrentees damage and you can catch some people asleep behind the wheel by doing dodge up special to chase them immediately after

[cold trout]

I gues my problem with that is he has clear downsides to playing him and now his combos are entirely dependent on the opponent making mistakes

[sick atlas]

This is what I really dislike, his "advantage" state now is completely dependant on an opponent and reading them HARD for very little reward. Something 99% of characters do not care about due to true combos

with no true combos for IG at all, you have to play out of your mind against competent players to win, rather than having equally strong advantage states

IG is still big, is still combo food, but now he died WAY earlier, and has no combo game to boot. He really did get put in the floor this patch in my opinion

literally give nair knockback to what it was last patch, and I think he is much healthier

the reason this is such a big issue for IG, is because his neutral game is so horrid compared to the rest of the cast in terms of speed, size, and attack whiff frames

[abstract python]

the rest of IG's patch was good then they js smacked nair in the balls with no good compensation

"we gutted his best move and only source of combo game?? dont worry just give dash attack 4 frames of meteor"

🪦

"also make afterburners have no limit and dair hitbox the size of narnia so the only way he can play the game against anybody good is camp in firewall" 💔

[sick atlas]

I enjoy almost every change, even the nerfs, BESIDES the nair knockback nerf. It essentially killed any chance IG had at being playable at a decent level which sucks. no follow up means a weak advantage stage, which is what they said they wanted to improve..

[cold trout]

Yah its like Im experimenting conversions on superman and having a blast mixing in standing eye beam and dash attack as combo extenders, not even mentioning how much better his air game is now. I also see combos on characters like Lola and harley which are these true strings with A LOT of varied options in how they want to end their combos, then i look at ig and its just jab into neutral attack most the time to guarantee effective damage.

and while I just name 3 characters it was most the cast that got these benefits, not ig though. The rest is just stuff I agree with, he already has bad neutral and now even when he wins he can't get much out of it. being so massive you already feel like you are at a disadvantage in a lot of interactions but the payoff was the combos.

I do agree bringing back his nair knockback so he can at least string a combo again is the way to go. yes tech chasing exists but it isn't guaranteed and there are ways out of it. Just like how you could DI away from his nair after jab if he got you far enough with the jab hits. Although maybe someone will something for him I can say in my experience it all feels rough and vs actual people anything new ive tried is easily avoidable compared to before when pressure was scary

[cold trout]

Call me crazy but I wish they gave him a way to combo into his dash attack. That thing has been awful for so long and I only either use it by mistake or as a meme.

[shy shore]

This nair knock back isn't even the issue imo, this new angle is great it's just they removed all it's hitstun unless it's charged
You can combo into jab if you hit the back hit uncharged at very low percent but that's it

[shy shore]

You used to be able to do nair ground bounce dash attack but it wasn't great, technically you can do side special dash attack but it's never worth and can be mashed out kf

[cold trout]

I know they did a game wide hitstun decrease so I doubt they would give back the hitstun but normally what would youe ven want to follow up with there?

[cold trout]

Sounds really weird actually but at least it has some use instead of being a dead move

[shy shore]

if it still had its normal hitstun you could combo it directly into up special or upair

when its charged u can do nair bolts upspecial off the side for an early kill

and if it had any hitstun uncharged we could do jab iad nair jab iad nair to drag across the stage

[sick atlas]

Sorry I was not using the correct terminology this whole time, the new knockback is cool, the lack of hit stun is what makes the move absolutely useless

[sick atlas]

I think precisely this is the reason it does not, but it sadly ruins the rest of the character.

perhaps giving back the hitstun it has but removing IAD is a middleground as we can still jump nair for some followups

[cold trout]

What about lowering the recovery frames on dtilt and making that the loop instead?

[sick atlas]

with techs its not really a loop, I will say though that I have been starting to hit jabs at 100, then d dilting, and because the ground bounce sends them so high up I go into up air for the kill which works decent

or jab into side air, I feel the need to do this because neutral chomp just dosent kill lately

[sick atlas]

its really important that after the jab you dodge into the down tilt, this positions them more centered over top of you usually rather than not dodging, which means they are usually too far away

[sinful dust]

I’m sorry guys. IG is absolute trash and it doesn’t look like PFG wants to make him any better than bottom 1

[sick atlas]

probably true sadly

[cunning glen]

Legit 100% done with him.

[abstract python]

4 months left of the game and they put him in a state of arguably the worst any character has ever been in the history of MvS outside of maybe season 1 full release velma

its cooked

[cold trout]

we may get a balance patch at least

[cunning glen]

They plan on addressing some bugs, that's all I know.

[rich vigil]

I don't understand why they even felt the need to nerf us

We were already doing bad

[sick atlas]

Sadly feel this way as well, I've been trying to cook with him but the brutal truth is that he has been made nearly unplayable for anyone who was proficient with him before, which just sucks. I'm losing to people I feel as though I have no business losing to, and used to never drop a single game against, consistently. I often have dozens of hard reads and never feel rewarded, working incredibly hard for no reward.

I listened to Nakat talk about tank changes, and I dont dislike Nakat or anything, but he was talking about how tanks usually have few combos, but can kill you off of stray hits really early as part of the design / reward of gameplay. I feel like this is not the case at all, not only do we no longer kill early via off stage carried, our stray hits feel insanely weak for a tank. majority of the cast kills early with some moves, our chomp has people living at 130+ frequently. Up tilt need to be literally perfect to kill which is near impossible to land on a good character- etc etc.

No point in going on and on, I just feel like what they say vs what has happened or what has been done isnt the case. All this could be forgiven with nair hit stun

[sinful dust]

All they needed to do was give nair more hitstun and add a lockout for nair -> jab as to not create a loop but still allow for uncharged nair to combo

Then you could do stuff like nair -> dair -> nair -> sair

[sinful dust]

If there’s a 000rico here, I’m sorry I have zero idea how I just fell out of your grab

[shy shore]

#clips message
They really didn't want Giant chomp to kill

[rich vigil]

I cried a little when I saw that

[wary fox]

if they revert nair hitstun it's basically season 2 ig where everyone was complaining

[shy shore]

I'm at peace with nair atp, it's usable

[rich vigil]

Usable is definitely a stretch

I think it's a stretch to say that this character as a whole is usable

[abstract python]

js gimme the groundbounce nair back bro

they have tech getup attacks now

the tech chase nonsense is balanced fr

and if they kept iad you could do jab > iad nair > grab maybe

plzzz

[shy shore]

I mean like I think it's better than jab 3 and dash attack which I think are definitely unusable

Nair can still combo when charged which makes it alright for covering space at ledge + when falling + to cover overshoots

Granted it does none of these amazing but it still does something which can't really be said for jab 3 or dash attack

[cunning glen]

They could've just got rid of his Whirligig attacks (up special/ Nair) and gave him high priority armored attacks.

I know it's not "saucy" but it would've got rid of the ability to smoother people at the boundaries without making IG absolute trash. Grab being his only armored attack is insane to me.

[sinful dust]

His biggest issue is definitely the fact that everything he does is extremely negative on shield. If you shield IG jab, you basically get your biggest punish guaranteed

Even if nair still ground bounced, it’s still awful on shield

And IG has literally no answers to shield camping

[sick atlas]

Shield camping is certainly an issue, land shield attack is also not great due to IGs speed, theres not much he can do. Its even funnier that grabbing an opponent in shield is still bugged and you get punished for it.

The truth is that IGs power last patch (while still being low mid tier or even lower) was his ability to rack up damage or kill early with off screen carries due to his combo game, usually ending with up special, sair, or bolts

now that DI up completely makes nair useless when charges, and nair being completely useless uncharged, means that neither getting his damage or carrying off screen works anymore. The character does nothing, on top of the fact that he dies easy now.

[sinful dust]

He’s still really heavy

Problem is everyone gets like double the combo damage on him specifically compared to literally anyone else

Which offsets his survivability

Not to mention a lot of custom combos only work on IG

[mint python]

yeah igs never really felt ''tanky'', he dies late but gets combod to hell so it really doesnt matter

[cunning glen]

Hell because of the tight boundaries his fat metal ass can die early anyways.

[sick atlas]

I noticed a few funny things that arent really useful

I didnt realize but when you grab you cant up special but you can use/charge downstpecial

also, when bolts can be used in your shield without dropping your shield

which means even when bolts in on CD, the little head knock hitbox can be used 100% safely while in shield

[shy shore]

Yeah, you used to be able to but they changed it cuz we used to just do Grab Up Special and kill at like 8

[sick atlas]

Rico mentioned that AJAX said there is undiscovered IG combos, do we think thats real or just trying to give hope? I have labbed a ton and cannot find anything, IAD any attack or special etc

[sinful dust]

I’ve seen I believe jab to IAD uair being used as a kill confirm more

[sick atlas]

I have as well, Jab IAD up air is good but it does not seem to be "undiscovered combos" worthy from a dev, at least in my mind

[sinful dust]

Oh I agree

The best combo I know of currently is jab IAD dair jab IAD uair

The only thing I could possibly think of maybe working would be jab IAD dair to air down special to tech chase with slight charge nair

Maybe there’s a scenario where air side special into some dodge cancelled something is also true with the small 2f buff, but that move is insanely reactable

[shy shore]

i mean i was hitting air side special up special angled forwards since like season 3

so seeing as how air side special has less end lag i can see that being a thing

guys i found the undiscovered combo, giant landing dair -> grounded down special hit 1

and if they mash airdodge after hit 1 they get an auto parry

🔥

[shy shore]

Got back to multiversus, any IG combos with cancels?

[sick atlas]

no

[rich vigil]

Haha

Iron giant combos

[sick atlas]

every fight is an uphill battle

walk to school up hill both ways type sh

[shy shore]

There’s no way nothing ever happened to Giant. No combos? No buffs? Nothing?

[rich vigil]

He's in his worst state yet. At higher percents you can do jab IAD up air for a kill since the neutral attack doesn't kill well anymore

And you can do jab IAD fair at ledge and try to follow up for a potentially early kill

[shy shore]

He got a lot of changes but none of them rlly made him better and arguably made him worse

Lighter, still heavier than everyone else but lighter none the less
10% smaller but he's still like 2x the size of everyone else
Neutral attack worse at killing overall
Nair combo game completely gutted unless it's fully charged

Aerial Side Special is decent
Jab Dtilt can kill well at ledge where it can spike

Can do Jab IAD again but he has no IAD Nair so it's not as crazy, but Jab IAD Dair Jab IAD upair is a kill confirm now

[cunning glen]

IG's changes seem to have less to do with balance and everything to do with making him less annoying.

He was literally at the absolute bottom of the roster.

I think he should just have sturdy untradable hit boxes, with soft spots where the attack isn't. (Obviously make nair and up special single hit to accommodate that)
Also armor on all falling moves (down special, dash attack, Jab ender)

[sinful dust]

I think it would make more sense to make all of his car related moves have projectile intangibility instead of adding armor to moves

It would add some consistency with his up special doing the same thing

Air side special might also be a good candidate to make projectile invincible like Finn side special or Jason dash attack since it has the same visual effect

As a trade off, make air side special use more fuel

I think that alone would allow him to be the sort of wall he was intended to be, especially for 2v2

Basically the 2v2 version of Finn being the counter to projectile spam

Air down special has the same visual effect and would also be projectile invincible

Which would instantly stop the Marvin matchup from being literally unwinnable

[rich vigil]

Honestly, great ideas

[sick atlas]

Yeah they made changes so that he is less annoying, AKA this novel idea called "losing"

its "annoying" to lose, if thats the case then I am currently annoyed with the entirety of the cast besides IG, I personally feel very annoyed getting combod to 80 and dying at 120 on IG, while simultaneously having no way to rack up damage and virtually no kill options

me personally? I find that slightly annoying

[cunning glen]

IG's kill option was pretty *much nudging out people that overextended.

While I understand that feeling like robbery, all they had to do was use their brain after the first time. Also IG combos are genuinely sluggish, it's almost like watching an elder drive.

That said *this game also have characters that:

• Hits very hard, and is very very safe on everything.

• a ranged grappler that can disengage arial play combat on command. Can approach with a big ass powerful hurt box as well.

• have instant armor lots of health, hits like a truck and can zoop across the screen relatively fast.

• have easy answers to all approach options, a super fast strong launcher, and a RNG homing kill. While also being on the heavier side.

Ect ect ect.... (Get a cookie if you can guess who those characters are)

IG isn't that bad, in comparison. Like maybe if they have an aggressive partner in twos but even then there's worse than IG.

[smoky sorrel]

I killed an ig at from zero to 40 earlier I was genuinely in shock

Out the ceiling as well

[shy shore]

with rick?

[smoky sorrel]

Before the same combo would've just put him by the ceiling not outright kill

[smoky sorrel]

Yeah

[shy shore]

brah that was prolly me hahahahaha

do you use matrix rick

[smoky sorrel]

Oh really? Haha sorry man

Oh no that wasn't me

[shy shore]

oh man that makes it worse

[smoky sorrel]

Whew

Would've felt bad

[shy shore]

theres 2 ricks killing different giants off the top at 40

what happened to the game i love

[smoky sorrel]

My ign in UnderTheBridge45

It's a shame honestly

[shy shore]

ah yea diff yeah then

this was like

KING D4FAULT

or something

[smoky sorrel]

He was weird to fight in 1v1 and kinda alright in 2v2 now he's just not great in either

Prolonged hit stun allows for lots of damage in 2v2 sometimes? But he lost a lot of survivability

I understand the frustration in fighting him but in that same vein making a character close to un playable isn't the correct option

[cold trout]

Maybe I am crazy but if there is some hidden combo that the devs talked about it must be horribly unintuitive if people can't figure it out naturally. I am trying to wonder, combos aside, what they could change/buff that they would be willing to in order to make giant playable. Maybe general knockback buffs on some of his moves to fit that tank design style they talked about?

[sick atlas]

Give uncharged nair back its hitstun, character is still terrible but at least he has a fighting chance, thats all that they would need to do and id be happy, hed still be bottom 5

nair hitting up feels worse than down to me, they can leave it how it is, just give it back its hit stun and we can keep the new weight and loss of tech chases and that would at least leave him in-tact post game going offline

if he is kept how he is now, that would just prove what we already want to believe.

[sick atlas]

Sick new IG bug, when you are up specialing off stage next to a wall and hold into the wall and slightly down, IG jitters, immediately gets wall fatigue, and loses his entire dodge meter

[sick atlas]

Had to nerf giant one last time in the last set of patch notes, that is comedy full circle, GG fellas

[cunning glen]

It was obviously not intended to work like that.

But the perk was actually useful for the first time ever with that bug.

Oh well back to 5%

[sick atlas]

of course, 100%, but even with it bugged it never felt broken to me at all. Sucks he didnt get any love before it was over but it is what it is

[cold trout]

Still stinks that they didnt even try to buff him or nerf some of the OPs. I know its a skeleton crew but IG is legitimately awful and thats how he will be forever now 🤷‍♂️

[cunning glen]

It's really the lack of armor on attacks, he just gets interrupted by all the disjointy characters.

[cold trout]

Its really that he simply has nothing, his main entry points like his nair and jab have clear downsides and long whiff and even when you do hit those you get so much less than other characters/than you used to get as IG

Legitimately I havent versed a single IG that terrifies me since his changes, people with thousands of wins on him feel predictable and I treat them like body bags

[cunning glen]

And he's lighter ....

[rich vigil]

And I guarantee you people still complain about him

[sick atlas]

I'm not happy with how he is now, but at least he had some seasons in the sun I suppose, better than to have been bottom tier the entire time

if you play him like a goofball he is still plenty fun to play, even if he is exceptionally bad against some characters on competent players

[waxen adder]

Could someone tell me what Iron Giant is like now? I stopped playing around Season 2 (the new Season 2), and one of the main reasons was that he kept getting nerfed.

Has anything changed?

[sick atlas]

Loaded question, very different, very bad, not worth picking up id say

if you want to just mess around for fun go ahead though, most of his combos are gone

[mint python]

i think nerfed every single update since launch even though he stopped being problematic long ago lmao

[cunning glen]

All risk no reward 😃

His health doesn't matter because he's so big that he can be carried off early

An I swear that priority system that was supposed to been added don exist

[mint python]

i havent even been playing s5 but i just got on for a bit and bro the aquaman matchup 😭

[cunning glen]

More range and priority than the "giant"....

[cold trout]

He is now officially the worst character in the game. Has been since season 5. His balance was good in season 4 aside from some cheesy stuff he could do but wakeup explosions break tech chasing and they gutted all his combos in a patch that opened up combos for a lot of characters. He feels bad to play now and gains nothing unless the opponent makes mistakes

Any move he makes amounts to no reward because its core is just jab into neutral attack. Easy to whiff punish, anything extra he gets is not contingent on something he earned its contingent on someone making a mistake so he has no real satisfying strings.

[rich vigil]

He's been the worst character for a long time now

Even when he had combos they were more risky and less rewarding than every other character

Now he gets no combos at all yay

All because low level players refused to learn the matchup

[cold trout]

S4 was definitely a low point for him but that low point still put him in mid tier. Because he still actually could do things when he connected with his attacks. S5 made him even worse and despite axing all his combos they didn't buff his knockback on what he can do so even his jab into neutral attack will struggle to ko at times.

[rich vigil]

I think his only good quality is that if he lands an up special off stage it can still kill pretty early

[sick atlas]

In the games dying weeks here I found something funny, not sure if theres any merit to it though.

When you grab someone with Iron Giant, normally you cant jump at all

if you use an emote as you grab for efficiency or at any time while they are stunned in your grab thats a speech bubble emote, for example a heart, GG, or salt emote

Iron Giant can jump again with the character, but seems to release them at the same time

but if you time it correctly it seems you can land a jump nair or a jump upspecial etc

I dont feel like labbing it anymore as the game is closing soon but if anyone cares to mess around with it, not sure if its been found before

[sick atlas]

He has a true 0 to death with charged nair at ledge still

[rich vigil]

You gonna share or

[sick atlas]

I thought this was pretty common knowledge, but I use it multiple times a game if I can hit it

Also, works on virtually all maps but the timing is super tight, based on map and character weight

https://tenor.com/view/iron-giant-irongiant-mvs-multiversus-s5-gif-8299354905943574369

Few really key things happening there in order to make that work

as you start fighting Master/GM tier players, hitting them with the nair like this is hard to do, you need to bait them to dodge via a jab or something etc, all depends on flow of the game