testing-grounds

[snow tusk]

So am glad they are running this again

[honest wind]

with this, PFG can get more reviews or impressions
now i can test it full of 2s mode

[mighty shore]

SHIELDS ARE BACK?

[pallid inlet]

Shields back for testing

[honest wind]

i think most players don't know about this yet

including me

[toxic snow]

Did they make any tweaks or is it just the same as last time? I didn’t notice any differences

[snow tusk]

I think it’s the same

Probably to gather more data?

[quartz oracle]

We need the short hop testing badly and binds for grab/shield

[onyx dagger]

While I enjoy seeing shields, I don't think they're necessary for MVS gameplay currently. There's already a passivity meta from what I've seen in ranked so far, so adding shields would be the nail in the coffin for rewarding good movement. And it was the fast paced movement the game was so well known for during the beta.

Not sure if this will help anything but just wanted to do my part in this awesome experiment.

[icy vale]

I still don't trust PFG to sucessfully impliment them

And who's to say they won't buff mages to compensate for the nerf that shields are meant to be for them?

It's just another thing that they'll have to balance when they already are struggling to balance the cast as is

[deep wren]

Please PFG if you just allow all characters to have one of their moves able to break armor and add some more frames to the dodge/perry so that it's actually useful against projectiles, then you don't *need * to add a whole new shield mechanic (and shield breakers) to balance armor and projectiles! Maybe try that in the testing grounds sometime!

[toxic snow]

One issue that I’m seeing is that fundamentally a lot of charters are not designed with shields in mind so it throws of the balance wildly.

Throwing shield in this late in development would likely be a huge step back balance wise

[toxic snow]

Couldn’t agree more. Shields make standing still rewarding which i don’t think feels very Multiverursus’ie. if anything the tests highlight that a slight adjustment in Parry and armored moves might be in order to preserve movement but also give slightly better defensive options

[elder island]

Totally agree, but I think we reap what we sow… people hate on the momentum and cry for shields constantly… so they’re changing the game for those people… we get what we get, and as a community we are primarily negative about the game, so what do we expect. The only real complaints I’ve ever had about this game were the u.i. and how many currencies there were (aside from general balancing that should continuously happen regardless and maybe some of the hitboxes)

[copper tree]

So what does everyone think of shields? 🤔

[still tartan]

Jack BLOCK IS BROKEN BLOXK THEN ATTACK nerf

Keep his block just like that

[onyx dagger]

Shields have been cool but aren't ready yet. The game is currently in a bait and punish meta, if shields were to be added as is, movement would have to be buffed as well to balance it out. There is the option of making it a perk but it should probably be nerfed a little so that it wouldn't just overshadow all the other perks.

Thanks for checking in on us as always!

[tough void]

Loving the shields for 2v2s. it's been making me play more and is actually an exciting addition 'cuz characters with the better jab don't win all the time. Instead, it feels tactical.

I'm not forced to dodge aerial neutral-attacks or multi-hit moves, I have a better approach to large projectiles, etc. everything has been feeling fluid even when I lose

So, the only down-side to having shields has been that I can't change the direction of my attack as soon as I come out of shield because the game makes me dodge. other than that I think it should become apart of the core gameplay

[toxic snow]

Sometimes Shields feel good. Like when shaggy is slamming side special or something.

On the other hand, they seem very strong at ledge. You can kinda just stand there and shield without much risk of being challenged form below

Also it also make slower heavy hitters like Jason feel really strong. Without shield you need enough time to close the gap and attack. Spacing was about more important.

With shields you can rush in, shield and it’s a lot easier to bully smaller characters.

Finally I’d say a lot of charters moves sets don’t feel balanced with shields in mind. Batman Grapple for instance become very easily punishable.

Overall, can work but it would call for a lot of changes IMO

[sweet pendant]

why didn't they give an announcement that testing grounds are back?

[icy vale]

I genuinely don't think shields will fix the problems people are having because it will be used both ways and only slow down the pace of a game further. And they just feel clunky without a dedicated button for them.

And especially with the track record we have of balance patching decisions, if they do end up being added. I feel we're only going to be further from a balanced game than before. And the road to get there will be made longer.

I think it'd be better if parries were buffed to reflect projectiles by default rather than having it be exclusive to a perk. And PFG continued trying to bring the top tiers down in line with the rest of the cast through meaningful nerfs instead of slaps on the wrist. (Looking at you Shaggy) As well as continuing to fix hitboxes

[vapid lion]

So my second impressions on shields
Shields themselves: Not much has changed here. I think the Shield itself is smaller than last time to fit characters better, and if that's the case then good adjustment. I still overall like the shield itself, my only nitpick being that I feel like to parry should be just dropping the shield at the right time instead of down and dodging. Would feel a bit smoother maybe.
Things to note though are that sometimes shields didn't pop up. I have no idea why and it became more consistent as I played matches.
Burn affects and the projectile burn Perk seem to work on shields, which really shouldn't be the case. I don't remember if it actually did damage, but the effect did pop up.
I don't mind the shield dodge meter connection generally, I actually found myself losing shield due to dodging more before it despite how generous shield drain is, which is good to stop it from being abused, but I really think it should be separate from dodge meter still. Have the shield indicator be it cracking or shrinking like other games would be a better choice imo. Could especially help projectile characters not be as invalidated as i've heard some people say. Though I did not run into too many projectile characters, so I can't really say if I personally think it's that bad for them or not with the matches I got in.

Shield breakers: I still really don't like shield breakers. They don't feel fun to use and are so inconsistent across the board when they are literally meant to serve 1 purpose, break shields. Characters like Jack and Morty can just use it as a kill move since it's their 3rd jab, I used it more as an out of shield combo starter as Beetlejuice rather than against shields because it felt more effective being an out of shield starter, and some like Nubia's just seem flat out useless. I'm pretty sure the endlag on them varies too which just really doesn't make sense to me. the shield breakers don't feel right just put over moves that weren't meant to have the property at all. And I know this may change to be unique moves but I still just don't find the core of it that fun of a counter option at all.

I still wish this would be dropped to go for a universal grab and throw system instead. it would feel more intuitive than the shield break attack and open up more combo/kill options for characters imo.
I understand it would take more time because you have to figure out 4 unique throw attacks for everybody and which grabs should be standard or long range. But I feel like it would just be a lot better than shield break attacks as the counter, since it opens extra options while still being a direct counter.

[twin maple]

Shields is alright

Imo

Not the greatest tho

[violet elk]

Appreciate all the feedback coming in from the second round of gameplay for shields. This time through comments are targeting exactly what we were looking for regarding a few interactions and those will be addressed in next Shield updates. We've also seen the requests to try it out in more than just the queue

[thin jungle]

jason grabs aren’t fair in this game mode

same thing with ppg

[foggy wing]

Regarding shield breaks I think there are some ways to redesign the general mechanic to be more useful. But I will suggest one in particular that can be pretty good for all characters.

For one the shield break input should be set to its own one button input. Similar to how grabs are in smash bros. This way doing the input is more intuitive for actual gameplay.

Next make it so that this new shield break button mimic what an attack would do but for a new shield break effect. For example you could do a shield break dair using the shield break button or a fully charged neutral shield break which would drain more dodge meter upon breaking shield. However for further balancing you can’t do shield break specials or add shield break to a projectile.

Lastly for balancing this shield break buff there would be a significant multiplier to whiff lag upon doing shield break moves with jabs getting a slightly higher mult for being safe. And whiffing shield break moves could drain meter as well.

These additions to shield breaking could also solve the shield camping at ledge strat. Or at least make it more bearable to some degree with the ability to do aerial shield breaks.

[brisk compass]

For one the shield break input should be set to its own one button input. Similar to how grabs are in smash bros. This way doing the input is more intuitive for actual gameplay.
i wouldn't be a fan of this personally, my controller is already out of buttons just because i had to bind so much extra stuff like neutral attack, neutral special etc

[mighty shore]

The shields are good against spammers

But i dont see people using it in competitive

And thats actually a good thing

So far i been only using it against people who just spams the same move

But i dont see it very useful in competitive

Its very situational

And thats good

[mighty shore]

Nuh uh

Neither of those are unfair

They are grabs

Duh

[thin jungle]

it is as there aren’t that many out of shield options that beats the grab

[mighty shore]

Ur not supposed to shield against a jason

[thin jungle]

the axe is hard to punish and mainly when you’re fighting anyone with a grab there isn’t a point in using shields

[mighty shore]

Thats why i said they are situational

[thin jungle]

this game wasn’t made for shields

characters were made without a thought of them

[mighty shore]

Shield is made for punishing predictable moves

For example

[thin jungle]

jason’s jab is too fast too even beat it out of shield

[mighty shore]

If you know a jason is about to jumpscare you with nair

You can shield and punish him

[mighty shore]

Why would you even block jab

Same thing happens with harley

Superman

EVERYONE

Literally everyone

[thin jungle]

jabs aren’t supposed to be fast

i don’t really want to argue about this in here i’m just saying the grabs aren’t fair with shields

[mighty shore]

Why in the world would you block a jab in the first place

[thin jungle]

it stops their approach especially a huge ass disjoint like jason’s

[mighty shore]

If you cant punish jasons jab that means you can punish literally nobody

Jason jabs isnt fast compared to the others

[thin jungle]

i’m mainly talking about during shielding i can’t out of shield punish

and there is grab finisher to it

[mighty shore]

You can shield and doge away

But again

[thin jungle]

lol

[mighty shore]

Theres no need to block jab

With no one

Thats straight up stupid

Shield is made for stuff like nair

Jack side special is another example

Bugs nair

Ww nair

Shaggys specials

who blocks

JAB?

Nobody

[thin jungle]

you can’t even punish bugs nair 😭

[mighty shore]

Thats useless in the first place

[thin jungle]

okay thank you for your condescending input

i’ll stop shielding jabs

[mighty shore]

I havent tried

But i think you can punish WW

[thin jungle]

it has armor break so not really

[mighty shore]

Armor breakers dont break shield

[thin jungle]

with shaggy it’s a different thing he seems more manageable

[thin jungle]

multi hit armor break can get your meter down fast

[mighty shore]

Literally the only way to counter it

Is grabs

Or shield + atttack

[thin jungle]

i think you should play the shield mode a lil more

[mighty shore]

I tried shielding a ww nair the first time shields came out and it doesnt drain your bar completely

[thin jungle]

dude i’m saying that the armor break helps her get you in burnout not that it breaks it

[mighty shore]

You cant test shields when you cant play with friends

[thin jungle]

with your logic that shields should only be used on nairs it doesn’t apply to ww

who can easily drain your meter and follow up from her nair

[mighty shore]

I didnt say only nair

You can block anything besides jab

[thin jungle]

.

[mighty shore]

Yeah

Nair

Jack side b

[mighty shore]

Any shaggy attack

Like side special

Marvin?

You know what i mean

Blocking jab will never work

Shields are meant to be situational

And thats why you aint seeing shields in tourneys or stuff like that

After getting added

You can also shield dash attacks

Like harley for example

Idk how much it drains

But it doesnt break the shield

[foggy wing]

Because it’s just testing and it isn’t added lol

[mighty shore]

I mean

Even having them

They wont be used in tourneys

They are too situationals

[foggy wing]

Bruh wdym? Of course they will be used. You can free punish almost any move as of now

[mighty shore]

If you read the next move ofc

I dont think they will be used that match

Depends on the matchup

[foggy wing]

They will be used interchangeably with dodge so pretty often

Especially when ledge guarding

[mighty shore]

So far i only been using it against spammers

Works a lot with mages

And spammers in general

Specially if you are jason

[foggy wing]

I use it all the time to bait options or against undodgeable attacks

And mages it works really well against

Like Tom and Jerry for example gets absolutely screwed because of them

[mighty shore]

They should leave shields the whole season until they finally get officially added

[foggy wing]

Like just leave testing grounds up or add them as they are rn?

[mighty shore]

They didnt even said it was limited time the 1st time

[mighty shore]

Leave testing groundw

And not remove it

[foggy wing]

ah ok

[mighty shore]

Until shields get officially added

They didnt even said it was limited

And only 1 day is absurd

I expected to be a week

[foggy wing]

I’m pretty sure it was technically Less than a day lol. Like 20 or so hours

which is even more absurd

[glossy lily]

There was a new test? What did they change?

[mighty shore]

I think some attacks drain more dodge bar than beforr

[glossy lily]

I see thanks

[fickle egret]

@lilac leaf will there be testing ground features available to activate in custom games in the future?

[lilac leaf]

Stay tuned

[sinful river]

Also can Testing Ground be available for Training mode?

[mighty shore]

Testing grounds are already gone?

[foggy wing]

lol they never learn

[crimson shore]

Love the shield idea wish they'd give us more info on how long they are staying or going etc

[honest wind]

we'll probably get round 3, but not sure of it
because we dunno when they gonna decide that they'll add it into the game or not with all these reviews and impressions

[foggy wing]

Thing is that it is really good against top tiers who have all these crazy unpunishable moves. Then again they could just improve dodge and make these kinds of moves actually punishable.

In any case they should make this feel more intuitive and actually take some of this feedback because if they keep doing tiny revamps then they won’t go anywhere the whole point of testing grounds imo is to experiment so they should go take some crazy routes with how they do things.

It’s particularly why balance hasn’t changed the meta. Cause they aren’t willing to do anything crazy, interesting, or experimental and just make small adjustments for the sake of “balance”

[crimson shore]

I feel like they don't give us enough information about things like it's nice they're doing testing from the community but at least let us know like when it'll be here and for how long

[honest wind]

if they're planning to add it in day 1 S4
they have to decide it to be added or not asap (today for example) --> then they have to update it into the game with around 10 days left

while w8 for shield, i think we need to play it with fast fall and short hopping without it if it not happens in next season

they really need to improve this "communication" between players and devs

[icy vale]

I find it funny that the testing ground is for "Possible new additions" to the game and how AJAX and Nakat have been talking it sounds like PFG were going to commit to it from the jump regardless of what people said

Like at least be upfront with these things so we can focus our feedback and not waste our time and breath telling y'all it's not a good idea

I've been falling out of the game from the lack of good character balance and lately it's been made more irritating because shields seem like a bandaid fix to that that I don't see solving the problem

I'll see where this game lands on season 4. But shields aren't gonna do it for me if Shaggy and Smith maintain the type of state that they are in

[foggy wing]

Yeah even teching felt like a bandaid fix and the lack of roll distance caused some really easy tech chases on other characters.

I think shields could work if they made the right adjustments. Granted they could just balance the problematic moves along with improving dodges to dodge multihits and punish insanely active moves.

I think I’ve ranted about this numerous times on how their method of balancing with small incremental adjustments doesn’t work in an already unbalanced game. It works in games like rivals 2 and smash bros because those games are more balanced and better constructed. The game in its current state is practically unfinished so I think taking the more extravagant, crazy, experimental approach to balancing and focusing it on the right characters (mainly low tiers and nerfing top tiers) could have more impact and then at least even if the game isn’t balanced you could see some interesting meta shifts. Then make more changes to eventually level out the balance

[icy vale]

Legitimately, gut the top tiers and revert the nerfs accordingly

[icy vale]

Hard agree with this

[snow tusk]

This will always be the constant reminder I will use to nerf Shaggy knockback. This feels so unfair

[zinc sable]

he charged this for a solid 3 seconds and u did not dodge

[icy vale]

For me, bro needs either more start up on his jab and dash or more wiff frames so you can actualy punish him

and I mean 10 frames at a minimum

[snow tusk]

That’s not the point. He killed at 40. Not even Jason can do that

[icy vale]

Shaggy moves and attacks way too fast for how much he can do

[snow tusk]

Reduce his knockback

If he is gonna be easy to use, then make sure he isn’t an easy win

[icy vale]

I just want him to be punishable

right now he can just throw things out and not worry about getting caught out for it

[snow tusk]

I want him to not be too rewarding

[icy vale]

which is also fair

[snow tusk]

Mhm

Reduce his knockback a lot

That’s what I ask

Please

[zinc sable]

this is the only time that attack has done anything like this in history this is a one time case

[snow tusk]

Bruh

[icy vale]

tell me you don't fight a decent shaggy without telling me you don't fight a decent shaggy

or that you're a shaggy main downplaying your character

either way. Shields won't fix the balancing problem

[zinc sable]

remove falcon punch bro that is too darn op

[icy vale]

it'll be a bad bandaid fix that'd make balancing even harder

[zinc sable]

remove dk neutral b wdym it has knockback

[peak comet]

he charged that longer than a falcon punch of course it will kill early

[indigo geode]

nadz is indeed a shaggy player

but I have also never seen up tilt kill that early

[civic yacht]

yikes im def not a fan of the current block everything method. This game is different because it does not have shields....

[snow tusk]

Pretty sure it’s being added cause it solves a lot of issues

It does take out some of the uniqueness from the game, but sometimes you need basic mechanics like shields in the first place

Shields will solve projectile issues and dodge vulnerability

[civic yacht]

solve projectiles?

[snow tusk]

From the shields explanation video

Also based on projectile weight, the shield will get damaged based on that, light basically doing nothing and heavy doing a large amount

[civic yacht]

lol this is just coping? hahaha whatever hopefully they don't ruin the game. (Not a mage player btw)

[unique plover]

Being different is not being good

[snow tusk]

You can try and be unique and make a cake from wacky ingredients, but sometimes the basics like eggs and flour are needed to prevent a bad desert

[civic yacht]

Not everyone is gonna like your dish.

[unique plover]

Exactly

But some will like it more

[snow tusk]

It’s better to have a basic cake with some bad reactions then to have a unique cake with lots of bad reactions

[civic yacht]

shame on those reactions ❤️

[unique plover]

Even the people that don't want shields hate the game rn

[tough void]

people don't know that Shaggy's aerial down-special is a grab and it completely screws Iron Giant lol

[viral sequoia]

I think the people that don't want blocking in the game, because they want abuse the fact they can just hit you for free in a game with out shields and we just leave it at that.

🫵😎

The handsome smith has spoken.

[mighty shore]

agree

[plucky pumice]

agree

[honest wind]

the breathtaking smith

[dense glen]

Why didn't they think of this during the beta?

[viral sequoia]

My fault, I realized the typo just now. 💀

[foggy wing]

True the only characters that don’t benefit are the top tiers. Except for morty I guess cause he has big hammer as shield break

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/minecraft-movie-minecraft-jack-black-minecraft-movie-jack-black-steve-minecraft-gif-5795357484262132490

[shut birch]

Parrying, something that takes skill for the same effect, is already in the game. Get good instead of wanting the easiest thing handed to you, is what I say

[icy vale]

I'm a garnet main

[viral sequoia]

what that suppose to mean

[icy vale]

there is no abusing anything with that character. Unlike smith and Shaggy, she has to put in some thought and work to get results

and I would like shields come after they finish the list of bug fixes and balance their cast first

in short, your blanket statement is incorrect

[quartz oracle]

Nice try steven main

You already have shield

Also parrying is very mid

[shut birch]

When one of the tanks, who is one of the weakest characters, has a shield to compensate for being so weak

[viral sequoia]

i was asleep my fault, also anyone can abuse the fact someone can't block, does not matter what character you play. Also garnet sleeper strong. zzzz

don't use my profile as an excuse, I already know smith is really strong now. prob should mention that too before you come back whinin.

😎

[unique plover]

Anyone know what the startup on shield was?

[upper plank]

Can we change lebron's shield animation to his neutral dodge animation? The time out t is iconic

[brave meadow]

Still waiting to get those Shields

[viral sequoia]

same

[viral sequoia]

SHIELD TIME.

[mellow crow]

I felt like there wasn't a ton of tiem to test shields. was that just me?

[viral sequoia]

thats because we only get thursday my dude.

it is what it is.

i wanted it to be a weekend thing, but the problem is.

we got wacky weekend event modes.

And to be fair. wacky weekends is not really a bad thing.

[honest wind]

we got testing ground round 3 today

[cedar anvil]

Have they actually made any noticeable changes with shields or are they just the same and this is more of a weekly recurring playlist?

[honest wind]

just played couple matches
i think 2 fast 2 block can't break shield in this round

[cedar anvil]

Did they still not address the issue with most moves being death on shield because of dodge attack out of shield?

[quartz oracle]

Did anything change?

[icy vale]

One thing I wish they'd change is dodging out of shield when you block an attack

I could probably get used to this but that irritates me to no end

I'm trying to jab, not dodge

[honest wind]

i think testing ground round 4 or next week will be more interesting
because next season, we'll get fast fall and short hop

[upper plank]

I hope we get character specific tests

[viral sequoia]

its probably good against shields be cause you have less end lag maybe? I've been currious about it being good to make dash attacks be more safe on shields.

the combos I've been getting out of shield have be really nice

you can straight up punish shield hits with aerials out of shield well.

[honest wind]

i need to get use to shield break more often and also use the shield more properly

start with basic thing and mastery them as possible

[viral sequoia]

it really feels weird for sure.

I wish I could input it faster.

maybe just not use to it yet

when we get the drop for it, I'm going to mess around with it in training.

[honest wind]

from keyboard, i changed it into shift + click left mouse
feel a bit easier than default one

[viral sequoia]

Maybe we will be able to make a custom input for it on controller when they release shields officially.

[dense glen]

Steven Universe shield function. Any opinions?

[honest wind]

shield from Steven himself or new shield?

[dense glen]

Both

Steven apparently has 2

[tough void]

working as intended. sometimes it comes in clutch for Steven themselves when there are platforms. I've been enjoying shields on almost every character

[molten crown]

Shield is fun especially vs spammer but the design is very ugly and need polish

[molten crown]

People camping ledge with shield is .... well you know..

[frosty pewter]

just wait till Jason or Jack grabs them while they do it

[molten crown]

[rare axle]

I honestly really like how shields feel right now. The only issues I have with them is that the shield breaking attacks are horribly unbalanced and some on hit effects like batmans batbomb shouldnt get applied when shielding it.

[runic trench]

Really happy that shields are back

[dense parrot]

shields are trashhhh

literally serves no purpose
anything you do with a shield you can do by dodging/parrying
and it makes doding/parrying on the ground feel super clunky
to "fix" shields, you're gonna add grabs
dont just turn mvs into smash

[icy vale]

Honestly I kinda have been playing the game normally and both sides forget shields even exist

and I think how clunky they feel has to do with it

I mean yeah it's nice to have a button when I'm on the ground to deal with nair spam, but I don't see it actually solving anything

especially since I can't shield out of a tech to stop myself from getting looped

[dense parrot]

if shielding doesnt solve a real issue, then it shouldnt be added
adds bloat to the game and overcomplicates it

if you think players are too aggro, fix movement
not defensive options

parrying is a perfect concept, just feels awkward to do in mvs

[turbid moon]

I wish yall would let us have testing grounds for more than a day

or at leased put a timer on it so we see when it ends

[viral sequoia]

It solves issues against projectiles, and allows people to be more patient.

And solves dodge spaming in a way. Like why would I dodge when I can just wait and block.

It's amazing.

😳

[viral sequoia]

Im guilty of this. 🙋‍♂️

It solves the issues of annoying hit boxes that hit through ledge.

While on stage atleast.

Also I think parrying is more safe to go for with shields.

In a way, it buffs parrying.

[nimble drift]

Shields are fine, nothing felt particularly worse.

Marvin's Rocket should break shields though and the meter taken by hits should take damage into account.

[viral sequoia]

I can see marvins rocket breaking shields, considering how slow it moves. even though I would hate it. LOL

[dense glen]

Agent Smith, Superman, Jake, Taz

[dense glen]

I feel like Shields take a bit too long to drain through Dodge Meter

[dense parrot]

To beat projectiles you parry
To be more patient you.... parry...
Theres nothing shielding solves that the game doesnt alr have answers for
Parrying rewards good players and punishes bad/predictable engage options
What does shielding do, exactly?

[viral sequoia]

parry does nothing

I parry it and then they runn up and hit me

💀

tell me again

about this parry feature that gets me hit for using it.

[nimble drift]

Probably bait but.....

Your average player doesn't sit and study the timing of every attack so they can party(*lol meant parry) consistently.

Even then with variables like internet connections it's not a reasonable answer.

[viral sequoia]

idc if it is bait

this guy sounds dumb

my fault

that was rude

[frosty pewter]

I forgot about them honestly

[cedar anvil]

That’s more of an issue with the current parry system being garbage and unrewarding

The parry window is only 3 frames and attacks must connect with your character’s hurtbox meaning that the parry dodge animation can actively cause your character’s parry timing to change AND on top of all of that, parrying a projectile puts you into an uninterruptible 13 frame animation which makes parrying projectiles put you at a disadvantage

Before they add shields, I’d rather them fix the current systems in the game because shields seem like a bandaid fix on a much larger issue with offense and defense

Imo they should start by fixing parry to make it actually worth going for, adding hand/limb intangibility to underperforming moves or ones prone to getting easily clipped, reduce the overall kill power of characters, especially the top 5, make all projectile hitboxes reactivate after like 1-2 seconds of being dodged, adjust auto tech so that it isn’t nearly as easy to reaction tech chase to death (either give a few more invincibility frames or increase the distance of tech roll), and tone down the overall strength of some of the more egregiously powerful characters and buff some of the weaker ones in meaningful ways (aka not something like just 1 frame changes which functionally do nothing for the move)

Then when the current systems are in a good place, evaluate and see if the game still needs shields

[dense parrot]

should we really be making the game easier? msvs isnt exactly difficult
theres a lot of mechanics to learn and movesets, but universal mechanics in this game are very simple
why should we muddy up the control scheme to add a feature that doesnt add to the gameplay in anyway?

[dense parrot]

^
i 100% agree with this
parrying as a concept is perfect
but in mvs it blows

fix parrying, fix movement, and suddenly the game is fixed
we dont need to add this shielding mechanic just because its in smash
not like smash is a great example of a "good and competitive" platform fighter anyway

[nimble drift]

Yes the free to play game should be easier, casuals are the life blood of ftp games. They should be able to play at a basic level.

[dense parrot]

the game is already hella simple to play at a basic level
wdym?

if bad players are losing to good players, shielding doesnt fix that issue
bad players should lose to them

[icy vale]

shields just feel like a bandaid over a bullet wound to try and get out of the work to fix the bullet wound

and will likely hurt more than it will help

[dense parrot]

its 100% a band-aid solution
and to fix the problem that shields will create, they'll make another band aid solution
games with shields tend to have grabs to break shields

[nimble drift]

The game feels the same.

[dense parrot]

because it turns out that adding a defensive option that requires no skill muddies up the game

[dense parrot]

then theres no reason to add it?

adding a mechanic that either does

1. nothing
   or 2. something bad
   is a bad idea

[icy vale]

I'm not looking forward to a smith spamming gun a foot from the ledge and also be able to shield if I manage to get back on the stage

[nimble drift]

As opposed to just running and spamming projectiles

[dense parrot]

some characters are just bad on or around the ledge
thats how matchups work
as arya i practically never try to fight on the ledge, just a bad idea all around for me

[icy vale]

yes actually. Because I can at least try to navigate through those

[dense parrot]

this is an issue that is solved by fixing the problems with the current mechanics
not adding a band-aid solution and ignoring those

AKA movement being really awkward, momentum based, and slow
and parries just being all around wack

[nimble drift]

Blocking helps with projectile spam

[dense parrot]

moving in MVS feels like trudging through water

[dense parrot]

is this the only solution?
do we have to add a new mechanic while the ones that we currently have are definitely flawed in execution?

[icy vale]

blocking forever looking for a window will lead your shield to eventually break and then you're back to square 1

[viral sequoia]

shields are gona help me vibe more in this game I don't know what yall talking bout.

Shiii......

😎

[icy vale]

shields don't do anything if you can't get in

[viral sequoia]

shields do plently to help you get in easier

you have less lag for blocking an attack then dodging an attack

[nimble drift]

Dodge only isn't viable with the type of moveset we have in the game especially not in duos were the stage can be filled with bs.

[viral sequoia]

makes things a world of more vibechamp

[dense parrot]

the stages are too small for duos
they increased the character size globally since beta

made it worse

but again, that can be fixed without a new mechanic

[viral sequoia]

lets meele users be allowed to vibe on the other side of the map with out being forced to jump all the time.

[nimble drift]

You shouldn't be able to turtle indefinitely either

[viral sequoia]

you act like thats a bad thing

[dense parrot]

respectfully, balancing around "vibes" is stupid

[viral sequoia]

I think being allowed to breath and just hold block instead of worrying about timing your dodges all the time takes stress off the game, and I think thats a fine Idea. and landing attacks out of shield feels really good in the testing ground I got nothing but positives about it.

[dense parrot]

why should you be able to turtle at all?

is that not boring? and it de-incentivizes proactive gameplay?

[viral sequoia]

its not boring because their shield will run out evantually

making them forced to go in if they turtle too much.

[dense parrot]

ah yes, the classic "just wait"
that seems fun to play and watch

i love downtime in my fast paced fighting game

[icy vale]

cousin to 'run away'

it's a fighting game, not tag

[viral sequoia]

' -' the down time isnt there if your approaching them.

[dense parrot]

at least running requires timing

[nimble drift]

Blocking gives you another option of approach, I'm most of the matches I played it was used to get in.

[icy vale]

approaching while standing still, makes sense

[viral sequoia]

running does not required timing if you got characters that just cover the whole map with a hit box.

now if you mean dodging sure.

but blocking requires timing

[dense parrot]

you cant run effectively without dodging
if someone is genuinely just walking away and u cant hit them, im sorry but you're terrible

[nimble drift]

Don't play dim walk and block is a common approach option in fighting games

[viral sequoia]

but it also does not require timing

and dodging can both require timing and no timing at all tbh

[nimble drift]

You also have doge dash in too

[dense parrot]

common doesnt mean good
and it doesnt mean every game has to have it

if we just added every common mechanic and removed all the odd ones, every game would be smash
and god i hope that doesnth appen

[viral sequoia]

thats what I was going to say but I assumed he knew that already

[icy vale]

also what's stopping the person throwing projectiles from dodging away on your shield?

[viral sequoia]

walking up and blocking to approach feels awesome

[nimble drift]

Stages aren't infinite

[icy vale]

you can dodge through someone and run to the other side

people already do that

[nimble drift]

That's punishable usually

[icy vale]

or better yet, they can block your hit, punish you, and then proceed to walk to the other side

this mechanic will work both ways since both players can use it

[nimble drift]

Oh no options in a fighting game the horror

[icy vale]

illusion of options rather

it's the same thing with a different look

doesn't fix what they were added for in the first place

or do anything else

[viral sequoia]

you can read them dodging behine your shield I do it all the time

were forced to read dodging in this game because there is nothing else to read

[nimble drift]

No mechanic is supposed to just give you the game, there needs to be a back and forth.

Block isn't the be all and end all solution to everything.

[viral sequoia]

like whats the harm in hadding more defensive options to this game

[icy vale]

And now you'll be forced to read a shield or a dodge

[viral sequoia]

sounds like a good thing to me

atleast you won't get punished for reading a shield, like you get punished for reading a dodge.

[dense parrot]

why do we want to slow down gameplay, like it isnt already slow enough?

[icy vale]

contrarians smh

pretty sure the beta didn't need shields as well

[viral sequoia]

were adding an option to let players go in a chase more properly instead of being forced to waste all of your meter just for chasing a projectile user

projectile users benefit from us aproaching because we have to use our meter most of the time

[nimble drift]

As opposed to reading an attack and dodge, to getting punished for it because your opponent have reach or can recover faster than the dodge it self.

[viral sequoia]

like what

why do I get punished for playing the game versus a player standing on the other side of the map throwing meatballs at me.

:l

[icy vale]

that's ironic coming from a smith main

[dense parrot]

that doesnt make shielding good
its the same point ive been making
we fix our currently bad mechanics, not add another terrible one

[icy vale]

view must be great from that glass house of yours

[dense parrot]

thats what makes shield a band-aid solution

it ignores the real problem

[viral sequoia]

bro gave up and stated the main. sigh... what will i ever do, its not like I played the character since he came out. what will I ever do... wooopdee doo..

[nimble drift]

Sometimes people can genuinely have a different opinion.

[viral sequoia]

its not a band-aid solution if they keep adjusting the game.

its almost like live-service games were ment to be updated

[icy vale]

maybe stop trying to repeat the same point that's been given counterpoints making yours mute and maybe I'll have something to discuss

you keep bringing up the same thing like we'll forget what we've been over already

we've been talking in circles for the past half hour

[viral sequoia]

im not repeating the same point, I'm giving you valid feedback to the same point you are giving me.

💀

I think your just mad at this point

maybe go take a breather.

its not that deep

its not like you have to agree shields are a good thing for the game

[icy vale]

"Shields help vs projectiles"
"But you can't do that forever"
"That's good"
"Then what does that fix if you can't get in?"
"It helps vs projectiles"

[viral sequoia]

people are aloud to have opinions

[nimble drift]

Honestly most people I've seen complain about shields main characters that are rewarded by the weak defensive options....

[icy vale]

and here's the "you're mad" card

[viral sequoia]

what does that fix if you can't get it in, we said walking up and blocking is what lets you get in. you forgot it and changed what we said to your advantage.

[viral sequoia]

don't act like you pulled the but you main this card. get outta here.

[nimble drift]

It's not contradictory.

[icy vale]

I said they can just dodge to the other side and run away again

[viral sequoia]

you are just as bad, so I gave you something bad back at you.

[viral sequoia]

and I gave you valid feedback and said thats were reading in a fighter comes in.

now we are looping

because you didnt realize what we said in the first place

[icy vale]

we were before

[viral sequoia]

we never wereee in the begining whattt... 😭

[dense parrot]

its redundant

[viral sequoia]

someone has to be paying attention to this.

[icy vale]

But I'm not interested in continuing to humor you so I'll leave you to make an echochamber

[viral sequoia]

alright bye bye

👍

[nimble drift]

You can already run away. Shields don't create that problem. It's disingenuous to try to tack on an existing problem like it's brand new.

[viral sequoia]

the point being stated here is. We can do this Versus but they can do this.

[icy vale]

my point was it doesn't help it either

[viral sequoia]

its almost like one option has an alternative option like rock paper scissors

thats how these games work

adding shields is a quality of life change if anything for this game.

[dense parrot]

shielding doesnt solve anything
thats the definition of a redundant addition

it muddies up the controls, and gameplay
slows it down

and in the meantime, the actual problems are unsolved

more problems are made and nothing is fixed

what is even the point of adding shields? i dont understand that

dont say "vibes"

[viral sequoia]

so you wana us too keep surffering using a useless parry option that I've parryed time and time again just to get smacked for parrying a projectile. I mean this is what it sounds like dude. its not what your saying but man.

[dense parrot]

no
i want to FIX parrying and movement

and not add shields

[nimble drift]

It does being able to block makes running less efficient.

You can't just swoop in or spam for free.

[dense parrot]

parrying is bad, i agree
lets fix it

[nimble drift]

Cool that's not mutually exclusive

[dense parrot]

it doesnt have to be
but that solves the issue that shielding supposedly "solves"
which, again, it doesnt

and if the problem is fixed, why add shielding?

[viral sequoia]

man, It really sounds like you just don't want shields even though its a good thing. considering all games of this type have of thing called blocking.

[dense parrot]

for fun? because "we can" ?

[dense parrot]

no, the only platform fighter with blocking is smash and RoA2
and roa2 is a smash rip anyway

[nimble drift]

Who do you main?

[dense parrot]

does it matter?

arya

[viral sequoia]

you realize were a laughing stock because people know we have to suffer in a game with projectiles with no blocking right.

[dense parrot]

do i care if other people dont like our community?

i played brawlhalla for years

im use dto it

[viral sequoia]

I care, considering I want people to like our game.

🤷‍♂️

[viral sequoia]

bringing in who do you main is a bad look my dude.

[dense parrot]

then make a good game with data gathered from the game itself
stop trying to copy other games
thats such a poor way to design anything
"they did it, so we should too"
if you want to add or remove or change anything, think about it in the context of your own game, not another game entirely

[nimble drift]

Ayra OIC

Dodge is very useful against her I'm sure

Well she's not Finn at least

[viral sequoia]

I mean if this guy mained T&J I would be talking man !@#$ but uhh, thank god they don't.

[dense parrot]

you can literally dodge out of her knife combo

[viral sequoia]

not always

shes my sub

I love playing arya

[dense parrot]

arya is fun, thats why i play her
a lot of this game feels like an oversimplified mess

adding shielding makes that worse

jack shaggy ppg are some of the biggest offenders of this

[viral sequoia]

arya feels like a character with valid combos. and valid hitboxes compared to the rest of the cast.

[dense parrot]

exactly why i play her

[viral sequoia]

BUT

as an arya main

you should love shield being added

it will be so easy to land jabs maaan

I was doing it the follow ups are so satisfying

[dense parrot]

and i dont
because shielding as a mechanic is bad
im not saying i do or dont want shields for my own personal benefit

thats stupid

[viral sequoia]

up special out of shield feels so safe

[dense parrot]

i think shields make the game, as a whole

1. neutral
   or 2. worse

it doesnt make it better

[viral sequoia]

but we won't have to run left and right anymore and people will give us less sht.

D:

arya is so tiny so and her jab is tiny so we have to wait

[dense parrot]

projectile spam and over-aggression
to solve these issues, we fix parrying and movement
so, once those issues are gone, what is the point of shielding?

if we choose to solve the problem with shielding instead of fixing the core mechanics, the original issues remain
so, even if we solved something, we've ignored other problems
is that not a band aid solution?

[viral sequoia]

the good thing is that we are tiny

[nimble drift]

How would it be worse other than some egotistical need fo this game to be "hardcore"

[dense parrot]

arya is the lightest character in the game
idk if id say thats a good thing
but its not bad ig

[dense parrot]

slows down gameplay
Muddies the controls
ignores other more crucial problems

[viral sequoia]

look man I wanted them to do that, I use to be like you, I used to say keep out shields to keep the uniqe part of the game.

[dense parrot]

since this guy really wants to speak from the pov of an arya player, it invalidates our knife
which is already hard to land

[dense parrot]

i dont care if its unique
it needs to have a purpose

[viral sequoia]

but I gotta say they are not able to do it, so might as well add shields at this point.

[dense parrot]

you're making a lot of assumptions about how im thinking
i dont care about my main and i dont care about being unique or not unique
i want it to be good

[viral sequoia]

im not making asumptions based on your main

[dense parrot]

i just mean to say that theres no reason to even mention arya in this conversation besides as a one off example
arya is not the entire game

[viral sequoia]

I brought it up because I like that you main arya

:T

[dense parrot]

thats chill

[viral sequoia]

yes

[nimble drift]

1.The matches I had were pretty fast.

2. They felt the same to me, IDK how it effect other control schemes TBF

3. Not inherently.

[viral sequoia]

#clips message

clip I landed with arya today

i think he could of got out

when the auto tech came in

but I saw it and just kept going

[dense parrot]

the few times ive played with shields, no one even used them
the only time i shielded was when i pressed it on accident because i wanted to parry

to ground parry you have to dodge towards the ground
which is just weird

[viral sequoia]

yeah it is weird

ill give you that

but it feels safer to parry in a wayyyy

idk

its friggin weird dude lol

they need to adjust it

[dense parrot]

we should lean into punishing predictable approach options and allowing people the ability to move around things like projectiles or spammy hitboxes
shielding doesnt punish predictable approach, it just punishes approach
and thats bad

[viral sequoia]

I like blocking to get under platforms by holding down

goota admit though

[dense parrot]

we should reward proactive gameplay

[viral sequoia]

because I don't like how platforms work in this game

[dense parrot]

pushing an advantage and trying to play the game

[dense parrot]

platforms in this game blow

[viral sequoia]

ye

[dense parrot]

but thats the thing
there are a LOT of issues with the game presently that we need to fix before we even consider adding a new mechanic

new mechanics come later

[viral sequoia]

dexters lab platforms only feel good with aryas upspecial dair combo

but other then that I hate dexters lab

[dense parrot]

by adding new mechanics we lower the priority on the other issues, as well
because shielding will not be implemented perfectly, im sure of that
nothing ever is

[nimble drift]

Should just be timing based. but it's not too hard to remember. But they definitely should just opt for perfect timing.

[viral sequoia]

ill be perfectly honnest I still want shields really really bad. but if they made parrying make more sense and easier to do, I'd be all for it.

[nimble drift]

No. They're literally making movement and mechanical changes rn.

[viral sequoia]

like are they adding walking and dashing?

I heard something about that

would be pretty cool Ig

[dense parrot]

i pray they add walking
dashing and dash attacks rn are so bad

removes control from the user

[nimble drift]

We'll find out monday

[viral sequoia]

I hate the way they feel

[dense parrot]

makes combos and gameplay just awkward

[viral sequoia]

fair enough

[dense parrot]

id rather lose the ability to do dash attacks as a whole because at least itd be consistent and i could play around it

[viral sequoia]

yeah, I do like the dash attack proc sometimes though

[dense parrot]

yeah, while shields arent even in the game
imagine when shields go out to everyone and suddenly they're at the forefront of the game
shielding would be a core mechanic, it has to be
its available to every character
they cant ignore it if it has problems

[nimble drift]

I actually agree with this, also that issue of needing the stick to perfectly recenter to recognize a double tap.

[dense parrot]

im a kb player, trying to combo with jabs and getting dash attack instead just feels bad

what game has shields but doesnt have grabs?

fighting game specifically

universal shields, not a character by character basis

[viral sequoia]

I mean yeah it adds more they have to adjust to the game. but being perfectly honnests they should of made shield breaks all have the same spd. and all etheir let you combo off it, or not. for all characters.

like agent smiths shield break is insane.

[tough void]

shields are great. I don't like the inherit advantage a character gets just by a map being short (Midnight Showing, The City of Townsville, Batcave, etc) and it especially showcases how bad the game is currently when u add in boosted jabs. I should not be rewarded 24/7 for being half-stage as Jack and hitting an opponent on the otherside. I like how shields provide a way to be aggressive and defensive, characters with fast frame data become punishable too. it's not mindless aggression and makes MVS feel as it should be

[nimble drift]

It could lose the bar faster but I like it so far.

[viral sequoia]

I agree with the making the game not mindless part.

[dense parrot]

this sounds like a problem of stages being too small (they created this problem when they re-released the game and made every character larger)

and from my pov, shielding makes the game more mindless

if you lose to someone spamming a move, you're spamming a mistake
so to speak

[viral sequoia]

but I also agree with orginalname saying making parrying a more viable option then just adding shields

both are good

idk what to think anymore

[nimble drift]

They literally added a shield break attack for that purpose, also several characters already have grabs.

[dense parrot]

if jack is just mashing and you cant punish it, you're making a mistake

[dense parrot]

yes, because some characters have super armor
and some characters have grabs
this is a character by character basis, and its matchup based
thats cool and interesting and incentivizes the player to learn how to play the game

[viral sequoia]

jacks dodge jab is really stupid won't lie on that. aryas dodge jab feels like dog water compared to other characters

I thought it would feel good.

[nimble drift]

They should do both imo. I don't think those things are opposed to each other

[dense parrot]

but universal shields vs universal grabs is what im asking
i only mention it because it seems like every game that adds shields has to create a band-aid solution for shielding, AKA grabs
and suddenly the game just becomes RPS with every interaction

[viral sequoia]

thats a fair opinion to tbh

[dense parrot]

no, but doing one (fixing parries) invalidates the other (adding shields) without creating more problems
doing the opposite does the same thing but without the "without creating more problems" bit

as in, theres no reason to add shields if we fix the other mechanics
cause the problem that shields would supposedly solve is just gone

[viral sequoia]

I mean its not like adding shields is not going to be difficult for them I would not care if they didnt add it yet in sesaon 4.

[dense parrot]

"gone" is an exaggeration ofc

[viral sequoia]

if they need more time to fix it take the time just give us something the fixes major issues with the current game

[nimble drift]

No not the armor break it a specific move out of block that breaks a blocking opponent.

[viral sequoia]

whatever they did for season 4 I hope its good.

[dense parrot]

are we talking about something in the testing chamber or something in the game presently

[viral sequoia]

shield break?

shield break is when you're holding block and press atacking while in shield to get a guard break option

it should just be a quick tap the stuns them allowing you to follow up an additional attack but with lockout so you can't spam it. and! on top of that give it on whiff so its not spamy.

[dense parrot]

the way i see it
we should focus on fixing what we have
and if we feel satisfied with the current mechanics, but we still have problems that need solving, then we add new things
new mechanics should only be added for 2 main reasons imo, with some exceptions

1. we are satisfied with the current game, but need to fix some problems that would be difficult to fix given our current mechanics (this is a type of game design that is based on problem solving. works very well, but can become drab over a long period of time)
2. we want to add new content for our players because we feel like the game is getting stale/we want to revamp how the game is played (this is the solution for problem #1)

presently, i dont think the game is at the point where we need to do #2
typically thatll happen after at least a year or 2, or if the game is just straight up dying and losing money

[viral sequoia]

fair enough

the new characters are some pretty good new content because they are characters alot of people wanted for awhile. but revamping the current defense options making it feel more smooth sounds like a wonderful idea.

[dense parrot]

thats my personal take on how a game developer should handle new mechanics
there are lots of philosophies for game development and such, and i think there is nothing wrong with just trying new stuff to make a game interesting
but its important to remember that just because something is new doesnt mean that its good
and just because this new thing solves some of our issues, that doesnt mean that its the best way to go about solving said problems

[viral sequoia]

that is if they do it. lmfao

[dense parrot]

thats kind of the big part
idk if they'll get to the point where they're fixing those core mechanics
but it seems like they're on the right track so far

just a bit slow to do some of those things

[viral sequoia]

yeah I liked how the end of season 3 turned out

the begining was a nightmare

but it got cleaned up

hitboxes need to be adjusted on all characters big time still

[dense parrot]

yeah
the game just needs some time to get itself together with what it currently has
imo the release was rushed, so they couldnt fix everything that they wanted to before it came out
but rn they're doing much better

i borderline quit up until more recently

[viral sequoia]

when i was playing against a friend and I went for a whiff punish on ppg and I watched my down air go through the character its so confusing, like I thought the whole character is a hurtbox but somtimes with certain attacks its like the other characters are not even there.

and jasons charge swing is another good example

why the bleep is his butt a hit box

for his overhead swing

💀

i'll try to punish that and get sent into the after life

[dense parrot]

ppg hitbox is omega cringe
needs fixing bad

[viral sequoia]

yeah, I never knew how bad it was I was like holy crap.

I don't blame characters where the hitboxes match the visuals.

but there are so many characters that have attacks that hit the air around them.

[dense parrot]

some of that is lag, tbf
but most of it isnt lol

[viral sequoia]

smith is included though I'm pretty sure most people complain about the wrong things like his jab hit box.

his neutral special hitbox and side special hit box is a problem

from what I seen the visuals make sense on his jab. maybe his jab could have more endlag or something

whatever

I'm go sleep now you have a good one dude.

💀

[dense parrot]

u 2 man, goodnight

[wanton vector]

So from what I saw on the stream, shields are still going to be very strong

Why is parry not being improved

Its borderline useless now I'd argue

[foggy wing]

Because

[honest wind]

shield won't be official yet in main queue
it'll still in testing ground, but new thing is we can test it in custom match, lab and local mode iirc

[wanton vector]

I am aware

[honest wind]

just in case

[wanton vector]

And this is slowly being put into the main game

Give it S5 for it to be official

Can't imagine all this work for it not to be

Question is, do tournaments run it with or without shields

Two entirely different metas

[honest wind]

we need more data, hopefully what we gather will be useful for pfg to implement this shield to be more balance and work properly

[honest wind]

i doubt it, without shield for now

[wanton vector]

Who knows?

If there's a time to put it to the test, I'd reckon it be now

[honest wind]

they may try it, but we saw Morty's shield break still same, i'm afraid ppl will take that as an advantage in tourney with shield

that's why i doubt it

[wanton vector]

I dont know if his is particularly strong

But seeing how breaking shields still doesnt drain the victim's dodge meter, it cant be all bad

[tender token]

I see that they changed hits on shield to have a whiff branch window rather than an on hit window. I don't think this is a good idea because shields shouldn't give you as much reward as whiff punishing. And the large amount of end lag on moves makes nearly everything unsafe on shield. I'm sure we'll get a better understanding as we see it in testing grounds but this is something that might be an issue. Also I really hope they change the visual from a shield bubble to something more unique to the game

[wanton vector]

I noticed that too

There's no penalty to just flickering shields

[dense glen]

They gotta make a Shield activation penalty

[dense parrot]

Praying shield doesnt get added
And instead we buff parrying/movement options

God, afk defense as a universal mechanic is lame

[silver girder]

I don't really know what chat this fits in
But I ain't ever heard of no Betelgeuse

[coral nexus]

That's how his name is actually spelled

[dense glen]

It's spelled like the recently deceased Red Giant star.

[turbid moon]

anyone wanna test with me, I gotta try new shields with this build

[tidal oyster]

anyone want to run some customs

[tidal oyster]

im down if u stil are

[turbid moon]

bet

I'm still down

[tidal oyster]

CosmicNut thats my ign

[turbid moon]

alright

[turbid moon]

let me know when your ready for an invite

[cloud trout]

Does anyone know why Raven's third signature perk doesn't appear?

[upper plank]

It's bugged, they're working on a hotfix for it

[tidal oyster]

anyone want to run some customs with shields.

[echo briar]

shields suck i hope this never gets permanently added

[raven hamlet]

Shielding doesn't even get used... People exclusively use dodge and parry still.

[echo briar]

i think a lot of people don't know it's there lol

[nimble drift]

Shields are fine, but Multiversus still have an issue of needing the stick to be perfectly centered to recognize neutral inputs though. So stoping mid run to block isn't consistent

[tender token]

So shields definitely make the game feel better but they really need to polish some things

Pressing neutral dodge and holding forward and back shouldn't force a dodge.
Every move is unsafe on shield which makes parrying pointless, I really don't like every move being whiff branch timing for hits on shield
Shield animations and vfx need work
Sometimes shield breakers just won't break shield

[echo briar]

just use the dedicated neutral inputs, it's way better tbh

curious what people like more about shields vs dodging and parrying ?

[nimble drift]

No that's the wrong way to look at it. Block doesn't remove those options, it adds to them.

It makes punishing easier because your not a mile away because you dodged a move (and stuck in place for a while if you don't get a perfect dodge.)

[honest wind]

I rather have all of them, more defensive options

[dense glen]

They fixed Steven Universe

[foggy wing]

I like it as lebron since Lebron is so slow to punish out of a dodge normally so faster characters can just do attacks without being punished. Shielding allows me to punish that

[upper plank]

Too bad he doesn't have that many good oos options

[foggy wing]

I’d rather hit them then not

[viral sequoia]

i Missed this weeks testing grounds

how did it feel this week did they change anything?

[dense glen]

Steven's shield used Dodge Meter instead of a separate ammo cooldown.

[tender token]

It was good but still needs work

Pretty much everything is unsafe on shield so shield interactions are kinda one dimensional, not many mixups. There is no point in parrying when shielding gives the same reward for less risk.

They should change the hit on shield whiff branch timing back to on hit branch timing. It also kept the game speed fast because shield interactions didn't feel so slow. So yeah they should either change it back or fix it someway else.

[viral sequoia]

💀

[viral sequoia]

Gotcha

I guess it going to take some time then.

[violet elk]

https://x.com/Player1stGames/status/1857558239162020215

Player First Games (@Player1stGames) on X

Hey MVPs,

Head on over to our survey to let us know what you think of the updates to Shields with the Season 4 changes! You can continue to test them in Custom Games, Training Mode, and Thursdays in the Testing Grounds queue! #MultiVersus

https://t.co/lGcaPeRp1O

Twitter · Nov 15, 2024, 10:56 PM

[tidal oyster]

anyone want to run some customs with shields

[sly rain]

How do I get the testing grounds?!

[tender token]

It's only on Thursdays

Unfortunately

[vagrant linden]

There are a few bugs to it I feel like

Like it takes quite a bit to fully get rid of the shield

And when you reuse it, it goes back to being full.

U can shield for a long time as well and nothing would happen to u.

I think there should be an option in settings for those who don’t wanna play with shields to turn em off.

[dense glen]

The Solution: Make shields weaker.

[wide tartan]

This really wouldn't work for a online "competitive" mode, they might have events or modes without shields occasionally though.

[wide tartan]

Also i dont think any of these are bugs, shield is tied to your dodge meter and in this game once you hit burnout you have to wait untill the entire bar refills. This means the only way to get shield back is to either wait or hit the enemy to recharge it. The amount of shield is a little large, i feel like it could be reduced somewhat or made so that damage to a shield removes more of your dodge meter

[vivid musk]

hit shield + attack its gon blow your mind

[upper plank]

[raven hamlet]

I'd love to give an honest opinion about shields, the problem though is that 80% of players don't implement them.

More like 90% actually

[vivid musk]

use em in customs

[icy vale]

I mean for me they don't do anything to fix the problems I have with the game

people still run away, smith, shaggy, and steven are still stupid to deal with. And a bugs bunny player had even less reason to engage cause they could just shield my close in options

they can add it if they really want to waste their time on it. I just see myself tapping out in that time because the actual problems won't be fixed

[calm pebble]

Shields are such a good addition to the game that I’m trying to not let myself play with them too much right now, because I feel like they’re spoiling the other modes for me. I can’t wait for them to just be in the whole game.

No Smash bias here. Lack of shield was actually one of the main reasons I got curious enough to try out MVS in the first place. I genuinely thought I was going to hate shields. Turns out they’re great lmao.

[icy vale]

I'm happy for you. I just won't be here for it

[viral sequoia]

I missed the testing grounds again

augaughaugh

how was it yesterday

[honest wind]

you can check on bhands tourney
this tourney allow players to use the shield

[viral sequoia]

Aiight

[viral sequoia]

Looks great

A plus

[viral sequoia]

Man, shields made it look like people were actually having fun in the bhand torny

😔

[calm pebble]

Ohh, thanks for the reminder that this happened! I’ve been wanting to see how top players are adapting to shields.

[viral sequoia]

😎

[honest wind]

i think we need to see a big 2s tourney with shield

[wide tartan]

does anyone else hate that to parry you have to shield and down input? like i get there trying to seperate themselves from smash but it feels really weird that you cant actually parry with shield

[calm pebble]

Maybe I’m biased because my background is in trad fighters, but I like it. It makes the parry attempt feel more deliberate than a Just Defend.

Keeping the parry tied to neutral dodge ensures that a bad parry attempt has a whiff animation tied to it, so there is some potential consequence for a bad guess. It’s actually kind of interesting (and unique in fighting games) because the “whiff dodge” itself does begin with some invincibility frames, and then becomes vulnerable after, so it’s safer than nothing but still ultimately open for punishment; this means that punishing the “whiff dodge” can require some intentionality on the part of the attacker too. (Of course, sometimes you were just mashing and you get lucky with your timing anyway. That’s fighting games lol.)

It also means you can easily parry directly out of shield. (Note that this is also the safest way to input a parry attempt, because it ensures you’re protected if you input too late. This property is also somewhat unique within fighting games.) Also also also: I swear to god, dude, shielding up and then parrying a breaker is one of the hypest things you can possibly do in the ground game.

I do think that parrying when you’re on a platform feels a bit bizarre, but I’ve written this off as a necessary compromise to have all the other neat stuff that’s going on in this subsystem.

[wide tartan]

Those are actually some great points! I didint even know you could parry while holding shields or even that you could parry a shield breaker. It defitnley does bring some unique quality’s, just wish it felt a little smoother. Maybe parry could be tied to a non movement button so it would work on platforms and other stuff like that?

[honest wind]

My review and feedback about the shield in general since day 1 season 4 until now

From 1s perspective :
After I watched Schwifty tourney that enabled shield. I think almost 100% that we need shield into the game
From 2s perspective :
After I watched Igloo tourney that also enabled shield, shield wasn’t really impactful a lot in 2s. It’s kinda hard to judge probably because players still not getting use to it since 2s is pretty chaotic. But i think I need to see it more in 2s.

I said almost 100% because several things that I concerned are:

1. what’s the final purpose of shield break, (A) is it only for knockback them or (B) also can used as a combo route?
   I asked because after I tried shield break from all chars, Bugs is only the char that has shield break that can ground bounce oppt and used it as combo route (still it’s pretty situational), like this clip :
   #off-topic message
2. Please change Morty’s shield break, I think Morty’s is kinda broken and annoying if ppl spam that move imo

Speaking of shield, i noticed that the community had divided between accept it and refuse it. I understand a bit from their perspective. I'm personally wish that we can find the way that can make the game better in the future for community.

[nimble drift]

Ditto

[mighty shore]

Idk if its fixed

But this happens if you use shields on the air

[icy vale]

They'll just remove air walker

problem solved

Just look at last stand, Raven's signature perk, and Sturdy dodger

[mighty shore]

They lowkey should

Aryas will actually have to play the game

[icy vale]

There's already nothing good in that slot tho is the only thing I can say

outside of 2 fast to block which I use for specific characters as is

At least air walker can let people shake things up and find something exciting

[mighty shore]

Unless u play arya

[icy vale]

For her it's just a combo extender

[mighty shore]

And a 0td

[icy vale]

but at least she takes more brainpower than shaggy or smith

like you actually have to practice her to get good at some of her stuff

but I feel you on that

[mighty shore]

Arya should get up b hitstun nerfed

And thats it

Or more endlag

Or just make up b angle diagonal

Just like they did with black adam

[jade fulcrum]

I see the developers still want Garnet to be a pain in the you know what so that made all her moves safe on shield

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/garfield-garfield-meme-the-garfield-show-memes-funny-memes-gif-13356147204598730868

[upper plank]

What's going on with testing grounds now that shield is standard?

[calm pebble]

Imagine a Thursday queue with no shield 🤣

Hopefully they just keep letting us preview system-wide changes sometime down the line, if/whenever that becomes applicable again…? Like, universal movement tweaks and stuff.

[upper plank]

Yeah

Or new perks

Sig or otherwise

[viral sequoia]

Now that shields are adde

What is going on in the testing grounds

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/bruh-mr-krabs-gif-22711198

[cosmic plank]

Right? It kinda feels like shields were the only reason it was created lol

[cosmic plank]

Stripe ChainShield Tech: with Stripe’s chainsaw, if he hits the ground with it, he usually does a bounce that leaves him vulnerable. However, if you press shield on the EXACT frame that he would normally bounce off the ground, he can go directly into his shield without bouncing.

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/gumball-youre-your-meme-car-gif-22807295

[peak comet]

shields seem borderline useless right now due to how easily the attacker can dodge away after hitting one

i think the attacker should have more hitlag to make spamming riskier

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/fr-ong-gif-24731885

[peak comet]

yeah shields don’t seem very good because of how minus you are when shielding plus the dodge meter drain

for reference, smash shields make the defender plus on almost all attacks, and smash has faster startup on their moves so it’s harder for the attacker to immediately dodge away

smash also has shield health regenerating pretty fast

where mvs needs you to either attack or get hit to regenerate dodge meter

shielding uses up a resource that you might rather use for burst movement

[icy vale]

It's almost like PFG has a track record of implimenting mechanics and game changes poorly

Y'all really thought a controversial mechanic would be any different?

The fact that they made campy and passive players more campy and passive was the last nail in the coffin for me.

Both the Dev team at PFG and the people advocating for shields were naive to think that something like this would help, let alone save the game in such a fragile state that it was in

I'm here for the dumpster fire to see when it finally burns out. I just won't be playing

[vivid musk]

So, are you aware upb, up attack and shieldbreaker are all instant out of shield

And that also, its a reaction check

I guarantee you 99% of moves in this game are unsafe on shield

[peak comet]

not instant, they all have longer startup than smash equivalents

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yh_ZbOPkdU

[vivid musk]

That isnt how frame data works

I’m saying instant as in no shield drop frames

[peak comet]

i am aware

[vivid musk]

What moves specifically could you not punish

[peak comet]

but also that seems to me like a weird way to balance the game, like your viability is based around mostly two moves? (up b and up smash)

[peak comet]

wondy nair comes to mind because she crosses you up

[vivid musk]

Shield isnt the whole game

[vivid musk]

Wondy nair can be spaced to be safe

So, fair

Same way i can space a cloud bair

[peak comet]

feels kinda like throwing dodge meter into the trash

[vivid musk]

Wym

Dodge meter conservation is even more important with shields

[peak comet]

like you are spending dodge meter for every attack you block, when you could use that meter instead for approaching

[vivid musk]

Blocking means you dont get hit by something

Which is very important

You can also run up shield

Approaching while being safe from pokes

[peak comet]

i also wish training mode was able to show me shield safety

like have a bot try to attack when i hit his shield

i can't figure out how to make that work

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/hold-up-let-him-cook-cook-toy-story-woody-gif-27345024

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/jiggy-jolly-get-jiggy-get-jolly-get-jolly-with-it-gif-13651478034157223092

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/christmas-cheer-goku-jolly-present-gif-10077742462783738616

[sonic kayak]

@fringe gale No invite links.

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/pipa-cat-chonky-black-gato-gif-14397642423018926492

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/relax-and-take-notes-jarvis-gif-22626007

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/jesus-ballin-mars-bars-gif-19910027

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/goonicide-icarus-icarusgoons-gif-15743754495342072857

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-19193505

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/epic-embed-fail-ryan-gosling-cereal-embed-failure-laugh-at-this-user-gif-20627924

[nimble drift]

https://tenor.com/view/woo-woo-woo-hoo-woo-hoo-daffy-gif-22124960

[bleak sable]

https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-family-guy-quagmir-joe-swanson-joe-rogan-podcast-gif-21314693

[nimble drift]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-think-thats-right-seth-meyers-late-night-with-seth-meyers-that-doesnt-seem-right-i-think-youre-wrong-gif-20031736

[fresh depot]

https://tenor.com/view/lighting-a-candle-baby-yoda-viralhog-candle-light-gif-17948166

[fervent quail]

[nimble drift]

K

[thorn vector]

<@&882349260409032746> <@&1317821544705294337>

[grim forum]

Ty!

[thorn vector]

🫡

[thorn vector]

<@&882349260409032746> <@&1317821544705294337> Happy Easter enjoy the $50

[idle edge]

what

[vernal flint]

Never forget what they took from us

[tardy prairie]

I wanna test the game

[glad light]

Boooo

[plush geyser]

W skins

[hidden seal]

<@&882349260409032746>