#The female character are not just oversexualised, they are straight up poorly designed

1 messages · Page 5 of 1

rotund crystal
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also just not going to bother interacting with ragebaiting mistersixtyfour this guy spazzed out and told ppl to kill themselves over an ugly karate rat character so anything this guy says should be viewed as probably wrong lol

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btw visually void looks like a fuckin ALIEN lol

untold fox
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I mean the fact there is witch has been broadly used for any wise woman with herbal knowledge or suspected of magic, the most attention being harmful ones, but many antiquity communities had "white witches" you would consult for helpful magic or cures. Now the idea of witches and Catholicism is definitely interesting because historically the church prosecuted witch accusers (for belief in magic beyond divine miracles) rather than accused witches. Eventually that turned around as witch paranoia swept Europe on the grassroots level and one of the crazy occult popes did the whole hammer of witches, and in Christian parts of the world it came to be seen as from pacts with the devil (much as how in other parts malign witches or black magic are seen as having roots with evil spirits or dark powers). So while the church certainly oversaw a lot of witch hysteria in certain parts of medieval and Renaissance times (though the most famous American examples were by protestant pilgrims), it's a somewhat larger arc of communities often conflating women of particular knowledge or isolated social positions with evil happenings (out of superstition or mere opportunism), and that filtering through whatever prevailing cosmology they had, usually aligning them with evil forces.

heavy magnet
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“but many antiquity communities had ‘white witches’ you would consult for helpful magic or cures.”

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Is that where the term “white mage” comes from?

untold fox
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Kinda just similar terms. A frequent term for benevolent vs. Malevolent magic is white vs. Black magic. You also hear stuff like right vs left handed magic.

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Language just really liked white (as in light, day, etc) vs black (as in darkness, night, death)

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So like, kura is pulling from a tradition, both Christian and preChristian or nonchristian of communities blaming women as malefactors consorting with dark powers, and in the anglosphere the most ready version of that context is the Christian "consort of the devil" iteration. I think it also true that such a term was applied to other traditions of folk herbalists or practitioners of older religions (like vodou, druidism, or whatever else), or even powerful spirits or gods in their own right (see baba yaga) usually as a means of conflating or misinterpreting such things. So like, while kura might be trying to say Eva is witchy as a female equivalent of warlock dark pact stuff, it's also true we could trace the term witch to those herbalists and folk healers, which is likely part of the inspiration for terming the alchemical and seemingly purely scientific mercury as a witch.

rotund crystal
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not talking about eva at all

untold fox
rotund crystal
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and im pulling from general understanding. if u ask a common ppl they will just say a witch is generally dark magic and more evil aligned. its most common trope. that usually applies to stories too bc those ppl are also common ppl that are making the story and understand that ppl believe witches are evil etc.

rotund crystal
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then fenrir is saying witches and wizards are same thing or they dont mean anything

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witch i think is a silly take but what can u do in this thread lol

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🧙‍♀️

untold fox
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I think the idea of a witch as evil aligned in the modern connotation is more mixed. The term has been used as the femme equivalent of wizards (Harry Potter) or we see them in a similar academic context (little witch academia) or they get aligned with magical shoujo (something that leaks a bit into mercury) or as a feminist reclamation of vilified feminine powers (down to reclaiming classic fictional evil witches like maleficent or wicked, which often align them with prechristian or academic contexts). Some people might think of Halloween witches first still, but that's certainly not the only association or even the most common one these days.

untold fox
rotund crystal
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elemental spells are prob most common magic spells across fiction. fireball ice storm etc.

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it doesnt need to eliminate his wizard aspects, it just means he is way more warlock leaning than wizard leaning.

untold fox
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I don't think him being themed into a single spell overrides that particularly, and I think his other aspects feed that, but I think we just have different reads on factors that speak wizard vs. warlock. Which is ultimately fine. It's not like this is an empirical thing that has an objectively right answer.

rotund crystal
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its a lot more than a single spell. its the character designs w the hands floating, voicelines, abilities, all of it.

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its just easier to explain why that one spell screams warlock more than wizard but that doesnt mean the rest doesnt either and shouldnt be ignored.

raven frost
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I mean thats just not true though

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Like that matches maybe older fantasy but in most newer incarnations that I engage with the idea that a witch is an evil dark mage serving some god is outdated

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They are just women who do magic

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Now some of them could be allied with Gods or something but thats not a consensus. The same with wizards using "normal" spells which i didnt see where u defined btw.

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If its just fireball and ice whatever I would argue what a wizard does has changed in more modern incarnations to be much more abstract than like dnd 3e fireball

raven frost
heavy magnet
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Careful, kura’s probably going to cycle back to the same argument again. rocketW

rotund crystal
# raven frost My take is that what is a wizard or a witch or a warlock fluctuates depending on...

they arent really outdated if they are the reason those terms exist. they arent made up words that u apply ur own feel to. even universes that use them still have the basic lore of a witch/wizard for those terms. they vary depending on the universe, usually taking stuff in that universe and applying it to those to make it more unique, but they are all pretty similar since those terms imply something.

raven frost
rotund crystal
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u might think we shouldnt be using "outdated tropes" to define them, but regardless of what u think, they still use these outdated tropes and u are just saying u think they shouldnt. i dont really agree or disagree with ur point since idc if they do or dont, just saying that they do because these words carry weight. u cant really just take a word and say it doesnt really matter and ppl should use whatever they want for it. so samurais now just walk around shield bashing ppl and not using swords lol.

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yea the similarity is there. the difference is why there are different terms.

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there is a reason why fighters exist. but there is a reason why a boxer and a muay thai fighter exist. they are both fighters, both using different fighting skills. same w magic. magic exists, using it differently, for different reasons, or gaining it from different things makes characters different.

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shouldnt just say the terms are outdated and every boxer can be a muay thai expert in games bc they all using fighting. same w magic lol.

raven frost
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A witch a warlock a sorcerer a magus a wizard these are all much closer to fantasy than they are reality

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So when you say void is more of a warlock than a wizard you base that off of the fantasy definitions of what is a wizard and a warlock which is not the same as saying brall is a samurai for example because samurai were REAL

rotund crystal
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hear me out

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u say in ur 2nd msg that they are closer to fantasy, then in ur 3rd u say i base something off of a fantasy definition.

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should i base it off of reality definition? like what are we saying here.

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im taking most accounts of what ppl view witches or wizards as and applying it to someone that fits the theme by using magic.

raven frost
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I brought that up because tou were using a false equivalency of samurai and boxers and muay thai

rotund crystal
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yea but what should we base the terms off of? just make them up?

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the terms exist because there is a belief behind them generally.

raven frost
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My option is that those types of terms exist in the context of their own universe and fluctuate depending on that universe. I would say void is a wizard or a warlock hes just a guy who uses magic.

rotund crystal
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he is or isnt a wizard or warlock?

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ur saying hes both just uses magic? or none apply and he just uses magic?

raven frost
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Holy shit what a typo

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Ive got to stop playing hades while typing

rotund crystal
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happens lol

raven frost
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I meant to say *wouldn't

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None of those really apply until we know more about supervives world

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I guess hes a sorcerer

rotund crystal
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that can be true but since we dont know anyhting abt the stuff we can apply our guesses based on general magic knowledge.

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i think sorc/warlock apply to him a lot more than a wizard

raven frost
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A wizard is such a nebulous term though

topaz hawk
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Gang we know history. We are talking about a fictional setting like DND or any fantasy RPG. We aren't still prosecuting people as witches in the modern day. Seems like a bit of a virtue signal. Not gon hold you

raven frost
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You sound dumb

topaz hawk
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You wouldn't know what a wizard was if they cast fireball at your face

topaz hawk
raven frost
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Hey so heres the problem

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There was nothing to really engage with in your last statement because it was stupid

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And theres nothing to engage with what you just posted bc I dont get the... reference or something?

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Idk what it is

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Im trying to watch something here so don't ping me again plox

topaz hawk
desert helm
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Putting Jin in a wizard hat does not in any way make him a wizard. It’s more then visual design man it’s also about fire balls @heavy magnet

raven frost
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Ur fuckin with me watching blue eyed samurai rn and u dont appear to have an argument or anything to say rly so bye

raven frost
topaz hawk
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What makes a wizard is the magic they use and the source of their power. You don't see wizards harnessing the power of eldrich beings ever.

raven frost
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Why isnt it a warlock thing

topaz hawk
desert helm
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@raven frost You are sounding kinda wizard phobic rn I’m ngl

raven frost
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I just ask the real questions the mainstream media wont

topaz hawk
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I know you work for fox news but i cant prove it

raven frost
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Fireball could be an anyone spell

desert helm
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Reported

raven frost
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I play magus in pathfinder 2e

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I have fireball

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Does that make me a wizard?

topaz hawk
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This guy doesnt get it

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Fireball doesnt make you a wizard but all wizards have fireball

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Do you need a venn diagram?

desert helm
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It’s not just about the fire ball you are missing the point, void isn’t a wizard is the point, he’s not even a battle mage, he’s a controller whom uses dark arcane magic, that’s not a wizard that’s more like an evil warlock

raven frost
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Can wizards not use dark arcane arts?

topaz hawk
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Thats a warlock thing

desert helm
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They can if they study it but not exclusively

raven frost
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Why not

desert helm
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A guy who only bakes cakes isn’t a chef

raven frost
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Why is that

desert helm
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Well he would be a cake baker

raven frost
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What makes a baker not a cook

desert helm
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Or a wizard who only uses fire that’s a pyro mancer

topaz hawk
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Dont you have a show to watch?

desert helm
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Not a “WIZARD”

topaz hawk
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I mean I'll keep goin

raven frost
topaz hawk
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A pyromancer is a kind of wizard no?

raven frost
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Why the separation

desert helm
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The separation is crucial because wizards draw from a variety of magics, they get to choose what they use, it’s the feelings of mastery over elements and knowledge, void strictly uses dark arcane magic that’s not a feeling of mastery, the guy has to be point blank range to get an ult off, in what world does a wizard stand 2 feet away from the target? Also wizards are men and void im pretty sure is a strong African woman

raven frost
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I gotta respect this kind of trolling

topaz hawk
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Mods this guy is dog whistling

raven frost
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🤝

topaz hawk
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Im being fr

raven frost
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First half had me going

topaz hawk
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No trolling. Your take is dog water at best

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Ill stand on it

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Im passionate about wizards

desert helm
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We all are my brother

topaz hawk
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I think its important to have a distinction between different magic users and there is no actual """wizard"""""character in supervive that really feels like a wizard

heavy magnet
topaz hawk
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And mentioning the history of witches doesnt really apply to a fantasy setting and it seems like it was just a fun fact you wanted to bring up

raven frost
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Actually for the sake of it

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I will actually respond to the top half bc the bottom is obv troll

raven frost
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And what does range have to do with mastery

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Is Ryze not a wizard because hes much more close ranged?

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Not every single wizard ever has to be 600 meters away calling down lightning

topaz hawk
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Looks like a wizard to me

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Uses a tome to cast spells

topaz hawk
desert helm
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@raven frost Well ryze is technically a wizard but only because there isn’t a classification for his magic, mana magic? Where void is clearly using evil arcane magic with an even deeper specialization on strong black dimensional rifts. Wizards can be evil but the moment they specialize or get corrupted by it they are no longer a wizard as they arnt capable of displaying mastery. As far as the archetype anyway, speaking on games, wizards are usually channeling ranged casters with big aoe damage and are very squishy. She also doesn’t look like a wizard at all, she has giant ebony hands not a staff?

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I get it tho you feel a little silly seeing how wrong you are but I’ve been studying this sort of stuff since I was an apprentice, I remember the first time I was incredibly wrong about something so I tried to virtue signal my way out of it.

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Hold this healing spell for me ik you need it

rotund crystal
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do i need to go on any more on this topic or does it make sense why that take is just bad.

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yea ofc void could MAYBE use fireballs and we just dont know cuz he doesnt like to, but why even bring that up at all? u are just rambling about shit that is not in the game at all and acting like it matters lol.

topaz hawk
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Super based take. I don't understand how people can connect the dots

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I mean when someone says a character is witchy you have a clear picture of that in your mind the same way something is wizardly.

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People constantly lump mages, wizards, and warlocks together like they’re the same thing, when in reality they’re wildly different archetypes, each with their own flavor, philosophy, and brand of power.

Let’s get this straight:

A mage is raw intellect and control. They don’t just cast magic — they understand it. Mages are scholars of the arcane, engineers of reality. Their power comes from study, precision, and willpower. They dissect the laws of magic the way a scientist dissects atoms.

A wizard, on the other hand, is the classic practitioner — steeped in tradition, spellbooks, and ritual. Wizards channel power through learned forms, relying on structure and formula. They’re the architects of magic’s rules, often obsessed with perfecting their craft within a framework of incantations and glyphs.

And then there’s the warlock — chaotic, dangerous, and absolutely intoxicating. Warlocks don’t study or recite; they bargain. They make pacts with beings older than time to wield forbidden magic that mortals were never meant to touch. Their power isn’t learned — it’s granted, and it always comes with a cost.

So yeah, call them all “spellcasters” if you want, but that’s like calling a poet, a lawyer, and a cult leader all “people who use words.” Technically true, but you’re missing the entire point.

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Oh, don’t get me started on witches. People keep throwing the word around like it’s interchangeable with mage or wizard, but it’s really not. Witches are a completely different breed of magic user.
They don’t pull power from theory or contracts. They draw it from the world itself. Witches don’t study magic, they live it. Their magic comes from instinct, ritual, and connection. not formulas or bargains. A mage writes equations, a wizard memorizes incantations, but a witch knows which herbs to burn and which words to whisper because the air tells them.

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so yeah there is definitely a difference in what kinds of magic users there are

desert helm
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@rotund crystal Ur actualy too based and too true for this chat my fellow Wizard, ur casting high tier magic and there coming back lacking wizard 101. Legitimately concerning how much wizard hate this community has. Let a wizard catch a vibe tf are we talking about? @raven frost ur getting aura siphoned its incredible. Where did ur aura go? Kura stole it… Kura has it all…. Ur legit auraless now, unbelievable blunder. Stand on business, you lack the tomes to discuss such intricacies Murc and that’s ok, get ur gear up, go grind goblins.

raven frost
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Fuck you man I was at thr origin episode

desert helm
rotund crystal
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send this guy back to the dungeon. u need to learn more.

desert helm
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@rotund crystal holding all ur aura as we speak, waiting.

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For @raven frost

rotund crystal
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this dude a squire

desert helm
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On god brother

topaz hawk
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doesnt even know how to give a well educated take

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or even respond to real criticism

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just caling someone dumb

raven frost
topaz hawk
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Someone who bakes cakes isnt a chef they are a baker

rotund crystal
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"im a fighter."
"oh really what do u train?"
"fighting." ass message

desert helm
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No no by all means that would make you a meat glazer perhaps a meat gazer not a chef

topaz hawk
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@raven frost completly ignoring all the valid points and just calling someone dumb. Then claiming that they are just being trolled when it's just a straight refusal to acknowledge reality on it's own terms

desert helm
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Beside the point really tho, void isn’t capable of cooking anything else, that’s just the facts ur living in a delusional world

rotund crystal
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buddy said how do we know void doesnt know how to shoot fireballs and he just doesnt like to 🤣

topaz hawk
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I mean I'm keeping it a buck with you and I'm giving a real opinions here and you just ignore it because it clashes with your own internal schema

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which is fine man some people cant be honest with themselves. Take some time for some self reflection here

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I get it dude sometimes it's hard to admit when you're wrong. No one likes to look stupid, but thats just a part of learning

raven frost
# rotund crystal u can apply this to EVERYTHING IN EVERY MEDIA. it is not a smart take. woah this...

I personally think all of those examples are stupid. We call pro archers pros because they are adept woth a bow and arrow not because they only use bows ans arrows for example. This logic cant be applied to wizards because the term wizard is nebulous. Its not literly person who can use spells so I dont see how any of the examples you broughg up accurately attack the point. What im saying is not that its impossible that void is a warlock and he has to be a wizard and everhone else is wrong and stupid. It's just to say that a definition like the one proposed does not work in this context because we dont actually know the extent of voids magical abilities and the nature of them.

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But I see im in the presence of FAKE WIZARDCELLS who dont want to open their minds to new perspectives

topaz hawk
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youre stupid

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im not going to engage with you

rotund crystal
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if u think those examples are stupid u are calling ur own examples stupid bro.

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is that not clear to u lol

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those examples are what u are doing.

topaz hawk
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no dude this person is delulu

raven frost
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So I (Chad Sorcpilled free thinker) am going to exit

raven frost
rotund crystal
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yea i would too after getting owned by real wizards

raven frost
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I cba

topaz hawk
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i bet you hang around conservative furry discord servers

rotund crystal
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take ur larping self to ur little dinky archer channel

raven frost
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Im misty stepping out of here

topaz hawk
heavy magnet
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Well, I see I’ve got some people I need to add to a blocklist.

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For anyone interested, here’s how it looks so far.

IMG_1860.png
topaz hawk
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Soft as baby shit my boi

timid shell
topaz hawk
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These guys are wizard phobic and play roblox dress up games

timid shell
desert helm
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@topaz hawk I like that he put you down twice

topaz hawk
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Bro needs his echo chamber

desert helm
topaz hawk
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Yeah dude lmao

timid shell
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why is gnome there tho

desert helm
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Bro Legit can’t handle that a group of young wizards want representation in there game

topaz hawk
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Thats keemstar

timid shell
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yea i know

desert helm
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We don’t like his tactics but the wizard gnome pact goes way back

topaz hawk
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Guarantee bro jerks it Zoe from league of legends and says its ok because she is in lore thousands of years old

timid shell
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makes sense ty for clarifying

topaz hawk
desert helm
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But yeah no as I was saying before a bunch of Wizardphobes tried to stunt our movement, they should add a wizard to the game. There are a million ways to do it, and we as wizard kind feel underrepresented by void or any other so called “Wizard” in the game. If ur def of a wizard is void? you dead ass lack gamer cred and you need to go back to fundamental nerd lore, I’d recommend checking out Lord of the Rings idk if you’ve ever heard of it but. It’s like even if you were delusional enough to count void as a Wizard why stand so strongly in the way of a force asking for another wizard? Can a game only have one wizard? The only conclusion one could draw is that you must be Wizardphobic and I pray you can put aside ur hateful ways and maybe even see yourself being friends with a wizard someday. Standing as a blockade to a movement simply asking for representation in a game is wildly bigoted and I see now why the game is dead. Maybe if y’all added a wizard instead of worrying about the size of the wizards ass you’d have a player base.

late marlin
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I am asking to be included in this block list

hollow crane
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ghost is a battlemage btw

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i know im late to the whole wizard discussion

hollow crane
hallow coral
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why is this thread not locked yet bro 😭

hollow crane
storm belfry
hallow coral
flat grove
keen lark
flat grove
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some people just have no motion fr fr

green cliff
# flat grove Rather have all of it in one thread than there being 20 threads

just remove any topics like this, it brings no actual discussion to the table and both sides take it to the extreme every time to the point of bringing up religion/politics where this community isn't a part of or need to be a part of

I agree with you on how much this topic has been discussed to the point of being spammed and every single time this discussion gets thrown around it goes popular because people thrive off on trolling instead of having an actual discussion about things like these

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it's just a toxic conversation overall where there's no middleground

flat grove
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Thats not up to me to decide

green cliff
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fair, but if you could bring it up to the other mods also for a collective decision that'd be great

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every time this conversation comes around there's really nothing good that comes out of it

hollow crane
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wow

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misogynist alert

green cliff
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Exhibit A:

untold fox
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nuts is just being a troll here.

hollow crane
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sorry i just care about women

keen lark
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this is a horrible day for the people in this thread

hollow crane
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OH

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LOL

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they gonna start drawin triangles on her

keen lark
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guys

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this character is so poorly designed

flat grove
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this actually mad me laugh fml

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go on with the peak shit ure doing @keen lark

topaz hawk
rotund crystal
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they are still gonna get mad

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u are not understanding the complaint

keen lark
heavy magnet
weak coral
untold fox
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what's the comparison point?

weak coral
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I just think they look similar

untold fox
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Sure. I'd put her in the main cluster, but with some definition. Very safely unexagerrated, using the big horns, boots, and scythe to project her character recogniton.

swift pewter
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I hate the new character design, it doesn't look bad on its own but its just a continuation of the thing I hate the most about this game : objectification of women. HAVING to see their boobs for them to be entered into the roster. This sucks.

untold fox
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It's a rather conspicuously convenient in between. Not skeletal enough to detract from curves (so not wraithlike or ghostly), nor powerful enough to step away from the snatched waist and slender limbs (so not really imposing for a frontliner swinging a giant weapon at your head). Her knight armor is absent around thighs and torso (and the undersuit has tears to expose her abdomen and chest), her helmet does not block her flowing hair. While the idea of mixing the cyber with the ghostly is very cool, and there are elements of the design that do articulate that convergence well, we do fall into the same old pattern of samey body design that detours from telling us about the character to make sure it's safely attractive in the same way.

This critique (as applied to other designs) isn't new, and the fact it held true here probably isn't surprising, but this is a fairly good example of a design that doesn't feel like it lives up to its potential because it's restricted to a narrow scope of what female character design is allowed to be. That's not to say there wasn't real talent and passion that went into the design frpm the devs, nor that other people can't enjoy it or aren't allowed to enjoy it. But it's the sort of thing that induced an immediate eye roll and groan from my wife, and to me feels a missed opportunity in certain ways.

flat grove
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like theyre not even overly big or exposed

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unless u think they specifically made her wear something made out of cloth to tone her breasts instead of for the ragged look, but if you wanna assume that, i dont think i wanna talk to you about this tbh

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because atp you probs see that shit in everything

vocal crest
flat grove
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i explained what i took out of it wdym

vocal crest
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Cool 👍

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How old are you?

green cliff
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might be quicker to just explain what you personally took out of that statement rather than just attack a person

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different people have different perspectives and that kind of aggressive taunting/questioning isn't empowering any sides of the argument

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what are you even expecting for someone to answer that question

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either way this whole conversation from like 10 threads ago with 1k+ messages each... yeah idk why this is still being discussed when it isn't even about the game, more or less just people's preferences about character designs and now we just have this toxic environment of both sides taking it to the extreme

flat grove
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No i genuienly think its that stupid tbh, i feel like most people that push for this debate that hard are just completely delulu.

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everyone is free to draw their own line, but trying to say that the intent in that design or part of the intent is objectifying women is just crazy imo

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or sexualizing them

green cliff
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we've got trolls in this thread, we've got people bumping threads from literal months ago including this discussing anything about female hunters,

seriously what's the goal here

flat grove
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If you ask me i feel like people just come here to vent every time a new female character gets released

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its like the most schizphrenic debate xD, like where do we draw the line if this character is an issue to you too? Do you just not want them to make things that look like women?
Theres also a few people that ask for the entire bodyshape thing but completely forget that the topdown perspective just makes it hard to convey height basically completely taking out one dimension while going for the other dimensions will just make it hard to make them look female to begin with, larger bodytypes are just alot more commonly used for male, often tank, designs, which we basically arent even getting, because of a ton of other issues.
I seriously dont get why there arent a ton of "make more fantasy stuff" or "make more monster characters" instead

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Like think female dwarve in armor, think some lovecraftian horror thirsting for revenge that conveys her feminine identity with voicelines and maybe abilitys hinting towards it

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that shit would be cooler than most of the characters we have right now regardless.

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But i think they hope to appeal to people more by just staying human since its proven to be easier to identify with a human being as a human being

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I personally think that those dont get people interested tho, id rather fight in an arena, even if i want to be the human hero guy, that has a ton of fucked up kinda creative monsters and fantasy creatures that look like they can hurt me

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But i bet atp people would complain that they made them female to begin with too. You just cant win with these people.

rapid patio
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Not skeletal enough to detract from curves (so not wraithlike or ghostly), nor powerful enough to step away from the snatched waist and slender limbs (so not really imposing for a frontliner swinging a giant weapon at your head)

I don't really care about the topic but just wanted to say that you have to keep in mind some countries (especially in Asia) don't allow for skull/ghostly shapes in media. (which is why some LoL characters Thresh or Hecarim have different character model in said servers).

flat grove
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Wait that was a law thing? I always thought that it was just something socially unacceptable

vocal crest
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So... you think what I said constitutes an attack?

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I agree that this discussion is pointless. What PWYFF said on it MONTHS ago should have been the end. However, there are two or three people that genuinely want to discuss the issue, a few trolls whose only goal is to attempt to trigger those who are trying to discuss a legitimate and real concern, and many poorly informed individuals loudly stating their views without a modicum of research, introspection, or empathy. As such, the two or three people keep attempting to gently educate and explain to correct ignorance which creates ample opportunity for the trolls to attempt to get the emotional response they want because it's funny to bait people.

#

Should you stifle the entire conversation just because of ignorance and trolls?

green cliff
#

never said it was an attack but it was an aggressive method of questioning wherein the question itself is irrelevant to the discussion where it can only lead to something else outside of the discussion itself

green cliff
#

there is a noble cause in all of this but after checking out this thread and those other threads and just seeing how people react to this

#

there is in no way this is healthy for anyone to partake in nor is it even helpful to the game nor its community

#

everything important has been said at this point, no reason to keep kicking a dead horse

vocal crest
#

This isn't politics or religion or any comparable topic. It is a discussion on the comparative design standards between the characters and how the choices made are perceived and interpreted. There are people coming in to the conversation and rather than engage with the topic, they find it funny to attempt to bait those engaged in it.

#

Also- understanding what someone brings to the conversation is an ideal way to enter it. If someone has less experience and less exposure than you would want to approach them differently than someone who has had exposure and disagrees.

green cliff
#

This whole discussion has been beaten to death and it's definitely leaning to politics/religion #1422985554059985076 message

vocal crest
#

For some, it might be. But I think if you read the way in which the two to three people who are genuinely attempting to discuss the issue and how it pertains to Supervive are clearly not discussing it with a religious or political slant.

green cliff
#

there was a whole political discourse about this topic around September in this very same thread as well, it's quite well spoken from both sides but it definitely leaned into it
#1407460293281583124 message
#1407460293281583124 message
#1407460293281583124 message

vocal crest
#

I struggle to understand how these messages can be construed as being delivered from a political leaning. This feels like normal art criticism and discussion. Which is slightly off topic, but still pertains to how characters designs are perceived. What about those responses do you find political?

green cliff
#

It's a discussion about how art can be viewed as political due to people's perspectives. Which in this case and topic is how Supervive portrays female characters

It's the logic that makes regimes declare halls of art 'degenerate' for being the wrong style or wrong form or wrong politics

flat grove
#

And if you want a one sided discussion you shouldnt have that on a public discord

#

But atp why even try having a discussion at all lol

vocal crest
#

Acknowledging that art can be perceived with a political slant is not the same as making the discussion about politics.

flat grove
#

And?

#

whats the issue with that, people use different means to discuss and argue about things. Everything is something that can be looked at from a political perspective and politics play a huge role in how societal standards are formed?

#

like what are u even trying to argue? Do you just want everyone to go by ur own rules of discussion?

vocal crest
# flat grove go on with the peak shit ure doing <@542099244270616600>

Neryll, with respect, you might want to actually do some moderating of the discussion to ensure it doesn't become toxic. Rather than encourage those who enter the conversation with the clear and express intent to troll or bait. That would make for a much healthier discussion that doesn't devolve into insult hurling, strawmen arguments, and gotcha attempts.

flat grove
#

he made a joke, if thats toxic to you, i think youre the issue tbh.

#

I agreed with it because i also think just going off of shape is kinda dumb because of the same reasons i stated here earlier

#

if you read my messages ud know

vocal crest
#

Understood. Thank you for your candid thoughts and feedback. I clearly understand that further discussion is pointless. I hope you have an excellent day

flat grove
#

theres other disruptive behaviour ive taken action against before, but generally, if you cant handle ur points being ridiculed by others, you should just not engage with public discussion

#

i dont wanna be the guy to judge what kinda joke flys and what doesnt.

vocal crest
#

What's the joke in the above image you found funny? Can you explain it to me?

flat grove
# vocal crest Understood. Thank you for your candid thoughts and feedback. I clearly understan...

You should generally just not engage in discussion just to try and villainize someone you dont like if you want them to agree with u. Like all you did so far is to just pull out random messages you looked up from me, which tbf, is just inherently bad faith to begin with, laid them out like they have to be toxic without even doing any of ur own thinking towards it just for me to tell you afterwards how i meant the messages multiple times for you to just jump to the next message u can attack

#

this isnt the first time either like

#

How stupid do you think i am

flat grove
#

or the other thread that is about female character design broadly

vocal crest
#

So the joke is that the poster found the person's argument so poor they decided to mock it?

flat grove
flat grove
vocal crest
#

Do you think mockery is part of a healthy discussion?

flat grove
#

I dont think its something anyone is innocent of tbh

#

and i feel like even if we started moderating it more heavily it wouldnt really change the nature of these kind of discussions being so polarizing

#

Itd be the same shit without the jokes

#

I dont think anything can fix that public discussions like these without everyone being on the same page with a few things at least, like basic stuff, nothing will ever go in a productive way, its just something you cant change. People just want to get their own points across without really going into the discussions wanting to change their minds about a topic

#

i think the only way to solve that is to remove these threads completely personally

#

they havent been good points of feedback to begin with for ages now.

#

kinda based

#

lets take it to dms tho, i think its been in here enough for now

vocal crest
#

Despite your lack of a direct answer, I can interpret you acknowledge that mockery is not contributing to a healthy discussion.

Your reasons for not moderating it feel pretty poorly thought out and not well reasoned.

The argument for removing threads in which people have a higher likelihood to troll will not reduce the threads that people troll, but rather provide a clear and decisive way for people to end threads they disagree with. By trolling.

Again, it is on the moderators, not the participants in the discussion, to ensure that discussion is healthy. You may think it futile to moderate, but we have confirmation that simply watching (or directly encouraging) those who intend to derail conversations doesn't work. Maybe a different approach is warranted?

Do you think there haven't been good feedback discussions recently because of the propensity with which discussions devolve into insult hurling, strawmen arguments, and gotcha attempts? PWYFF was right that people are far more performative in their discussions due to the expectation they are being read by devs, but this too can easily be quelled with properly setting expectations.

#

As primarily a spectator, it feels pretty frustrating to see discussions derailed by those who seek not to contribute, but to troll. Rewarding their trolling by closing threads feels not a punishment, but a reward.

heavy magnet
#

But I do think Nyx is a step in the right direction, even if she’s not completely different.

untold fox
flat grove
crimson notch
#

I love how when any non-mod has an unpopular opinion they just get laughed at, and when it's a mod, they get called out for abusing power even if they don't make any threats to ban people or anything xD

untold fox
#

I mean that mod constantly saying they just may use their mod powers to shut things down if one side of a debate keeps being annoying to them doesn't seem like it's good for the tone of a debate.

crimson notch
#

didn't they literally say they don't want to lock the thread, multiple times?

untold fox
#

They keep saying they're mighty tempted to, and the context makes where they are promising to moderate as an outside observer and moderator and where they are an active participant with clear opinions often blurry.

#

And surely that has an effect on how some people might feel empowered or even encouraged to push the envelope, while others might feel iced out from even talking.

flat grove
untold fox
#

but surely you see how the constant promise that you just might be convinced that you should shut down this topic, combined with the fact that you are not neutral in the topic, might affect how the topic works?

flat grove
#

if we have discussion channels i dont want to be the one to decide which topics go and which dont, unless someone is abusing it obviously.

#

Keep the rest on topic from now on if you want to talk more about this just take it to dms

untold fox
#

noted. Said my piece about how the subject applies to the new hunters so far, may have developing thoughts as we see her in action more.

fair quest
#

Remember people

#

You can just

#

Silence this and not see it!

#

If you dont like tomato soup, dont go to the soup store to complain!

heavy magnet
flat grove
hollow crane
#

imagine the new champ

#

but

#

wearing merc's shirt

rotund crystal
#

if we are gonna cry about moderating i think 99% of the ppl who are trying to push this “point” would be banned or locked from this channel. making fun of silly shapes is not comparable to calling ppl sexual freaks who just masturbate to game characters or telling ppl to kill themselves lol.

untold fox
#

Where are you getting that as 99% of people kura?

flat grove
#

Yea thats a wild number lmao

rotund crystal
#

everyone except u so far feels like lmao

#

either way i think whining about a mod finding a picture funny is weird. its not like the guy is doing anything bad.

vocal crest
#

If you cannot understand how mocking someone is disruptive and harmful to thoughtful and inclusive discussions I am not certain that I am going to be able to explain why exactly it's worth pointing out

uneven frigate
#

the people angry about it dont even play the game anymore

rotund crystal
#

there was 0 thoughtful and inclusive discussion going on based around shapes. the original post is far from what everyone is pushing in this thread.

#

the reason why i dislike this thread is because of the original post. i dont fully disagree with having more varying female designs like a big monster etc. but basing it off shapes, and not even accurately, is a really weak point that no one really continued. this post hasnt been about the shape idea for a long time so making a simple joke of it with 1 picture is not a big deal.

uneven frigate
#

a game is a simple: make something fun that people enjoy and the rest comes

#

anything that strays from that objective is from people who dont know what they are doing or what they want

rotund crystal
#

not really. ppl have opinions on art design thats fine lol.

#

its not like focusing on art design means devs shouldnt focus on game balance.

#

i dont think the convo abt female design (imo should be every character design but apparently 3 big dudes means the male cast is insanely diverse lol) is a bad convo, i just think some of the points are actual garbage points like this original post and some of the ppl are freakazoids w too much passion for no reason lol

uneven frigate
#

either they are trolling, wants the game to fail or has no interest in the game at all

rotund crystal
#

i dont think anyone said needs to be fulfilled or the game is evil lol.

uneven frigate
#

"there is not enough shapes"

#

"not enough diversity"

#

"enough diversity of smth, needs more diversity of another"

untold fox
# rotund crystal i dont think the convo abt female design (imo should be every character design b...

I do think male designs have some convergence with about half the male cast, but between the more big exaggerated guys, weird shaped ones like void, gremlins like beebo, etc. There is markedly better variety. And it's useful to compare to show that more variety is possible and useful to expressing character.

As for this one setting the wrong tone, that's something my partner was just talking about. Presuming nerryl doesn't trap us in this version, maybe talk of character design for those who enjoy such things would benefit from being under different parameters.

rotund crystal
uneven frigate
#

cmon bruh

#

you are smarter than this

rotund crystal
#

?

#

are u not reading the msgs or something

#

saying they think the game needs more variety is not calling for a change to be fulfilled or the game is evil, its saying their opinion on it. there is no other convo going on here other than that because that is what u said and that is what i replied to lol.

vocal crest
#

We are clown reacting now 💀

vocal crest
# flat grove How stupid do you think i am

I often find that when one feels the necessity to ask this question the answer is almost always going to be the one they are not wanting to hear.

This is an example of mockery. Do you understand how it might prevent us from having productive dialogue?

uneven frigate
rotund crystal
#

none of that matters?

#

lol

#

im saying what u said is not happening u are just yapping.

#

this is a thread where ppl are talking about their opinions on character design whatever u are seeing is some other thread or ur imagination

uneven frigate
hollow crane
uneven frigate
#

ohhh i just noticed something

#

kura, you were one of those who were necroing this thread

#

makes sense now

rotund crystal
#

nope i wasnt lol

#

u are just a pure yapper u are talking about random stuff

#

someone giving their opinion against a thread isnt "necroing" a thread just because u disagree.

rotund crystal
# uneven frigate

do u think this means anything? it is someones opinion. u can disagree with it, i do, but that doesnt mean anyone that has an opinion on art style shouldnt be taken serious because u think the game comes first. both can be a talking point.

uneven frigate
#

what would be the purpose of that talking point

#

the dude does not even play the game

#

what would anyone accomplish by developing the topic further

#

which is how this thread started

rotund crystal
#

the purpose is to have their opinion heard by devs its not really a hard concept to grasp lol? if a character is op and ppl are making threads about them being op they are either just venting or trying to have the character nerfed. ppl make these types of threads to vent or to have their opinion heard so they can change the design. there isnt anything really wrong with that.

#

the main issue i have is when ppl ignore things or make up shapes etc. but having an opinion on art style isnt a wrong thing and i think u shouldnt think the game needs changes to make the game better so no one should focus on their art style opinion. both can coexist lol.

#

but my main point is ur saying ppl are focusin on this while the game is in a state u dont like. that doesnt matter, both can be talked about. and i dont see anyone saying this game is evil bc of the art etc. thats all im saying lol.

uneven frigate
#

and lets say the devs "heard" the opinion, mission accomplished, what now?

#

dioubt the thread with more activity than the game itself has not been read at all

#

one of many

#

which the others got closed/deleted

rotund crystal
uneven frigate
#

eh?

rotund crystal
uneven frigate
#

well i am talking too

rotund crystal
#

ur "talking" is telling everyone to not talk about their opinions because the game doesnt need it?

#

if u scroll up and read the msg of urs that i replied to, im just against that logic.

uneven frigate
#

its my opinion

#

why u dont want me to talk about my opinion

rotund crystal
#

u saying anyone that joins a convo abt this is unreasonable is some larp

#

ah so when u said either ppl are trolling or wants the game to fail, u were tlkaing about urself trolling

#

o7

uneven frigate
#

lmao

#

i didnt join the convo

#

so it cant be me

rotund crystal
#

🤣

uneven frigate
#

literally not mentioned about female character design at all

#

just the people who engage about it

rotund crystal
#

yea just u are now trolling after having no reasonable response

uneven frigate
#

response to what

rotund crystal
#

maybe ur initial msg was true just not 100%. most ppl are trolling or unreasonable.

hollow crane
#

ive never done either of those things

flat grove
flat grove
# uneven frigate the people angry about it dont even play the game anymore

I get this sentiment but i think its fine to keep these discussions going because i think this argument isnt even something stupid to be had overall, theres some examples that make sense even for me, but since its a polarizing topic there will be people with extreme opinions on both sides (as in one side acting like that intent doesnt exist at all or thinks that its completely fine to sexualize women and dumb down ur designs for it and the other side acting like the designers are sexstarved dumbasses that have no clue what theyre doing and only try to make everything sexy)

#

and i think its unavoidable to have polarizing topics in an open discussion on a public discord

hollow crane
#

take mercury's shoes off the skin

#

if im gonna pay money for it thats the least they can do

uneven frigate
flat grove
#

Its about the games characters

hollow crane
#

devs wont (and probly shouldnt) listen to 100% of the people that are here in the disc

#

and nothing of value is ever really said

#

this thread is pointless i agree but its just as pointless as 99% of the other posts

#

like

#

when wukong was broken

#

there were 20 threads

#

we all knew he was broken they were all wastes of energy

#

shit was going to change eventually whether it got posted or not

#

and same with this thread

#

they should keep making hot girls

#

and they will

#

even tho this thread exists

uneven frigate
# flat grove Its about the games characters

There can be a discussion in the Supervive discord about if Shrike would be a good underwear model, and while hilarious at first it has a limited scope and purpose, prolonging that as pair of nuts said it has already been said, is pointless to keep it going, it does not contribute to the game at all, the devs are aware some players feel this way.

This could had been about characters in the game but the discussion is off topic from supervive at this point. Unless it doesnt matter anymore since 99% of the discord does not play thos game anymore

flat grove
#

what the fuck is even that comparison

#

lmfao

#

One discussion is argueing wether is something is sexualized, the other is blatant sexism

uneven frigate
#

Why is it sexism?

flat grove
#

If you need me to answer that to you id rather not engage further in this tbh

#

its just a waste of time

uneven frigate
#

Alright then

hollow crane
#

the discord isnt a place for cold hard facts and game changing decisions

#

its a place for the silver players to hang out

#

not trying to be a dick, since i hang out here too (im not silver)

#

but thats what official discords for games are for

#

its for people to come say oh i like elluna

#

or shrike is hot put her in underwear

#

or lol what if kingpin was a vampire

#

all dumb examples but you get what im saying

#

they have a focus group and a form to fill out for pbe access

#

and the people in those groups are the only feedback the company should be listening to tbh

#

i dont think getting worked up because ppl are talking about champ design is worth it

#

even if u dont agree with their opinions. at least the thread is active

green cliff
#

they actually do listen to a lot of the discussions that happen around here|

TC isn't perfect, they're slow, completely ignoring stuff, but a lot of actual discussions around here does impact balancing of the game even if you only look at the 20%~ of stuff that doesn't ever get addressed like Hudson

hollow crane
#

Nah

green cliff
hollow crane
#

As evidence by all the complaints they made on launch

green cliff
#

either way only listening to the top 0.5% of the community the "high elo" isn't healthy for the game either

hollow crane
hollow crane
green cliff
#

the amount of threads here that actually somehow gets implemented is more than you'd think

there is some truth to what you're saying but the voice of the community is more impactful than you're trying to portray

#

this whole thing as well warranted a personal statement from Pwyff

#

this conversation I agree shouldn't be here (albeit for a different reason due to toxicity and how far both sides take it) but it's still a discussion worth bringing up because many people want to bring it up one reason or another and something that TC definitely knows

#

it's already had impact

hollow crane
#

I bring it up a lot but thats just ironically cause its funny

#

Cause I can't imagine caring about it as much as other ppl

#

And u r right ab that

inland apex
#

What's the TLDR of this

#

I made the mistake of clicking on it and it sent me to the latest comment

untold fox
#

it's an old thing that was articulating dissatisfaction with female hero variety trying to use predominant shape language. How applicable it is has been of some debate, but most of the chatter is a mixture of the larger conversation about female character design - whether it could use more variety or not (with several variations of both sides of that), and then lots of commentary on how much commentary it gets.

inland apex
#

So, chill with the gooner bait

#

Understandable

#

I know that's an insanely huge blanket of the discussion

#

It's just funny to call it that

untold fox
#

No, but that's solid as a blithe summation.

hallow coral
#

most of the point of the PBE/Vive Council is to give mostly balancing feedback

#

which I think people with most hours in the game can give best

#

other than that when it comes to design etc. they do a lot of things on their own

indigo verge
#

it’s like they tried to pretend it’s not objectification but still couldn’t help themselves

indigo verge
inland apex
#

I need to goon tho

#

Can't if characters get concord'd

#

However, the mercury outfit was great until the weird underboob window.
Not practical for a lady who goes flying across the land

broken wharf
#

Probably is a required thing in alchemy

flat grove
#

Its not that they listen more to one specific groups they just are trying a bunch of stuff to increase numbers mainly

flat grove
indigo verge
#

it’s like hearing a photographer talk about the composition of an image, and going “looks like a dude standing in a field to me, i think youre exaggerating”

#

like maybe you just aren’t looking at things critically enough to engage with the topic at hand

flat grove
#

So if i look at it and think its insignificant enough in that regard to not see an issue with their intent i automatically lack a critical eye

indigo verge
#

i think if you somehow manage to entirely overlook a shameless example of the problem being discussed then yeah you lack a critical eye

flat grove
#

Oh yeah because i dont think its an issue because of how it looks with the entire design im overlooking a shameless example

#

Maybe i just disagree with u?

indigo verge
#

you literally verbatim told me you “didnt notice it” so don’t pretend like you saw it and you just didn’t think it was an issue

#

you stated yourself that you overlooked it

flat grove
#

Yes i didnt notice it as something people would have an issue with not that i didnt notice its there

#

Couldve worded that better

indigo verge
#

it’s a discussion about sexualisation of female character designs and shameless cleavage where it makes no sense for it to be didn’t register in your head as relevant to the perspective in which you were viewing the design

#

that signifies you indeed do not have a critical eye in this regard

#

they gave her a full bodysuit and then put a rip in it specifically to give her cleavage. this is as shameless as it gets

#

how you could not see this as a clear example of the issue being discussed is beyond me

#

it’s like people complaining that your restaurant has no healthy menu options, and so you create a salad, but then you put a piece of chocolate on it

flat grove
#

My main focus on using that critical eye of mine was wether her overall ragged look matches with thr clothing and bodytype and imo its aight. I think the legs being that bulky will probs add alot to how its gonna look from topdown and im obsiously still waiting for animations and the rest.
The only thing i wouldve even thought about would be mentioned here is that shes supposedly a bruiser but still is rather slim which is unusual but they added alot to the overall model for me to think it could still look bulky enough ingame to fit the general look of that role throughout media

indigo verge
#

and then your ass looks at it and goes “well it’s just some chocolate, what’s the problem? the rest still is healthy isn’t it?”

#

if anything the fact that they get so close to creating a character design that finally feels like they’re deviating from their norm and then STILL can’t help themselves to give her shameless cleavage is a perfect example of the problem

flat grove
indigo verge
#

then why is the rip specifically on her fucking cleavage

#

instead of literally anywhere else

#

how else do you justify that design decision

#

aside from sex appeal

broken wharf
#

Let me try finding an Image...

#

Ok I found it

indigo verge
#

the funniest part is also the entire rest of the chest area is completely rip-free

#

like come ON

flat grove
#

Theres multiple rips on her clothing not just there i think its at least as plausible that they just went through multiple iterations of it and just went with it because it looked the most fitting for the ragged look, id personally still prefer armor but i like this look too

flat grove
broken wharf
#

Hmmmm

#

Ok Ill find it let me log in

indigo verge
#

it doesn’t even look like a fucking rip it’s perfectly round

flat grove
#

Thanks

indigo verge
#

it just looks like part of the clothing

#

they didn’t even do a good job at trying to pass it off as a rip

flat grove
#

Thats why i did

indigo verge
#

i’m just saying they’re so shameless in their execution that it barely even passes as a rip

#

or i’m too charitable in assuming that it’s even a rip at all and it’s genuinely a keyhole in her clothing

#

but let’s be charitable and assume they at least tried to play it off

#

it’s like the equivalent of having a male character with rips in their clothes to give them a rugged appearance, and then having a perfectly round rip in their pants exactly on their crotch with the outline of their dick showing through it

#

wouldn’t you agree that’d be pretty fucking shameless

broken wharf
#

I think theres other too let me see

flat grove
#

Thats actually alot more sick than i thought itd look

indigo verge
#

really? i assumed i was looking at a beta version

#

genuinely thought it was unfinished

#

but that’s besides the point

flat grove
#

Yeah same here thats why im surprised

#

This looks armored

broken wharf
flat grove
#

Man if this id what we get on release we eating gooooood

#

The perspective kinda makes her shoulderplates boots and horns stick out alot more

#

Thanks for sharing these

tiny hemlock
#

What the hell am I looking at

#

Lmfao this thread is a containment zone

crimson notch
#

that would be if she had a breast out, not just the middle

broken wharf
#

I mean thats how it would be like if it was the inverse no

indigo verge
heavy magnet
crimson notch
#

I'm not saying it's not a sex appeal based precedent, but it is

heavy magnet
#

Because that's not working out for Overwatch, is it?

indigo verge
crimson notch
#

that's how appropriate and inappropriate things are detemined, no?

indigo verge
#

also yea ofc there’s a precedent. but the illustration is to show how silly the precedent actually is when you put it into perspective and shift the gender

crimson notch
#

true

#

100% agree

indigo verge
#

the problem is exactly that the precedent is there, and the call is for this precedent to be meaningfully questioned and challenged

heavy magnet
inland apex
heavy magnet
#

But anyways, I still think Nyx is a step in the right direction.

#

Even with the exposed skin she's got on her design, it's pretty clear she's meant to be a more tanky hero than what we've been getting.

rotund crystal
# indigo verge i still think its so funny when people say shapes are a weak basis for character...

buddy its not shapetheory that is the weak basis, it is YOUR take on it. u literally posted wrong shapes for some of the characters, focused on only one part of the body to sum up the whole characters shape, and ignored every other shape in that characters design. there is a reason this post has near 100 poop emojis, there is a reason why everyone that wants female character change are not focusing on the weak shapes u drew even tho they want change. its because this post is trash. even the ppl that this post would help push their point do not focus on this posts point, they focus on the characters overall design outside of just the shape of their ribcage lmfao.

weak coral
#

I think this presents the core disconnect at play in this discussion that makes it such a slog to interact with

It feels like a motte and bailey

It’s plain to see areas where TC uses ‘goonerbait’ to try and sell the game, namely in Mercury, the Devil Shiv skin, Eva, the Swimsuit event, etc

And I completely understand the argument that these things are rooted in a misogynistic foundation in our culture

But some of these comparisons and statements in support of that wider idea are a little fringe. I don’t understand how one could compare a chest keyhole to someone showing off their pubic area? This isn’t considered the same thing. What is acceptable or not acceptable to wear is entirely socially defined. How can that be the appeal to tradition fallacy?

All designs made in any game are informed by a wider societal tradition underlying the way people dress. It’s not fallacious to have art that reflects that. If a member of another society that views breasts less sexually and thighs more sexually drew a person in no shirt and long pants, would you tell them, “might as well draw them with all shirt and no pants, otherwise it’s a shameless appeal to tradition”

This kind of reaction for this character is disproportionate, she has a slight bit of cleavage and her shoulder exposed, this isn’t some “shameful” way to dress that you would only see in a “sex object”

This is just how fully fledged grown adults dress in real life all the time, this is no where near as bad as Mercury.

rotund crystal
#

i mean ngl i feel like if u are viewing someone as not shameful and not a sex object, that implies u are viewing others as shameful or a sex object no? u comparing her to mercury means u view mercury like that lol.

weak coral
#

My mistake you’re right

#

Not my intention

rotund crystal
#

feels like a majority of the ppl that are against the female body or character designs are the ones focused on goonerbait stuff or focused on sexualizing the characters body and design. im sure there are some that actually just are goonerfreaks but i just see a cool character while others are like holy boobs are showing sexual character remove this and that focus is part of the problem that they push onto other ppl. like blaming one "side" for boobs, while perma focusing on the female body of a character is a bit weird to me lol.

#

man dont bring that guy up lol. he has proven himself to be a weird fella just leave him out of the convo no point interacting.

#

DNI as they say

heavy magnet
#

Because the devs decided to make all these Barbie dolls, they're the ones that decided to make the female cast almost nothing but sex objects.

#

Nyx is a good step towards stopping that, and the fact that a bunch of burner accounts, bad faith trolls, and Discord nobodies sent some random emote doesn't change anything.

rotund crystal
#

unblocks to reply 😂

#

if u like nyx and are against the other girl designs u are a lil kooky imo.

inland apex
#

This is such a massive nothingburger discussion.

hollow crane
#

what if mercury feels empowered by her shirt and what if she a real eater

#

i think thats fine from a lore perspective

flat grove
#

Like you go to sleep and someone draws a dick and posts it and thinks its ok

#

Like the comparison is so fucking dumb

rotund crystal
#

what?!

#

i cant connect the dick drawing to the conversation i have no clue what that means lmfao

flat grove
#

someone thought that something that is publicly worn by women and socially accepted to the point that its worn without any sexual intent by women (because surprise surprise, women dont dress for the sole purpose to be sexy to some boob oogling men) to pants with a dick cutout and had to illustrate it to prove that point

rotund crystal
#

LMFAO

uncut mason
#

I swear this game has no lore, I have to look at dev steams from the narrative designer to get an idea of what the fuck is going on with this game's universe.

#

some in game apex style character bios would be nice at least.

storm belfry
#

Signwave is part of the mentally ill crowd that should just be banned tbh. They bring nothing but negatives to a community.

olive current
#

the fact that the penis outline drawing got deleted shows some massive bias from the "mod" here in what is acceptable sexualization and what is unacceptable sexualization.

clearly sexualization of women is normal and expected, and sexualization of men is weird and off-putting

#

and the fact that trolls are allowed to keep coming back and engaging in here to throw off the conversation

storm belfry
#

Non of the girl characters have exposed genitalia lol.

#

Mentally ill

olive current
#

like what are we doing here

storm belfry
#

Letting the mental illness out

olive current
#

@harsh girder @somber fulcrum is this really acceptable mod behavior

#

meanwhile this random is personally attacking me out of nowhere?

storm belfry
#

This isnt an nsfw server

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They lucky they dodnt get permad

#

Dont expect people to facilitate your mental illnes

olive current
#

please do elaborate on that! :))

heavy magnet
#

Also, Mew is definitely just here to try and derail the convo.

#

Don’t take shots every time they say “mental illness”, you’ll go blind. rocketW

olive current
#

I can see that haha

flat grove
fair quest
flat grove
#

comparing that to a keyhole top is absolutely braindamaged i dont even know how we got here.

#

Im not even having a bias

#

if you wore the shit u drew in public itd take minutes in some places before u got arrested and would face charges

#

it straight up isnt acceptable to be posted here either

#

The delusions some people go through to make their argument is so insane to me

fair quest
#

Uhm, mr mod is clearly biased

#

Beebo is balls out all the time?

#

What the helly?

flat grove
#

true mb

fair quest
#

He even rolls on them

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LMAO I GOT FLAGGED FOR K*NKY

flat grove
#

thanks for reaching out in general tho

hallow coral
#

this entire thread serves 0 purpose

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not to sound like LTG

#

but I feel like after a literal dev responded in here it should've just been closed ?

#

also I feel like when it comes to sexualization this game is like the LEAST problematic game comparative to other "mainstream" games out there.

untold fox
#

As a point of ongoing discussion that multiple people care about in different ways, thread serves its purpose there. This is a discussion thread after all, not a feedback ticket (even if it is meant to provide feedback and response to an element of the game)

flat grove
#

esp with most points being made are just genuienly some of the worst ive ever read regarding sexualization within games

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and ive been around for a really long time

#

its a polarizing topic, people will have shit takes

#

since theres way too many extremes

untold fox
#

as for whether this game is the worst offender of sexualization, obviously not the worst.

Nor is this strictly about sexualization - the point here has been the limited variety in female character designs. Now I think a fair read on why those limitations may be is the notion that female characters have been put more consistently towards conventional beauty standards, and that leads to matters of sex sells, sexualization, objectification, etc., but it's ultimately a perceived priority that is triggering the larger critique.

I think part of why this draws consistent chatter is that its not the worst offender. The dev team is creative and passionate, and we can see that they can produce a variety of unique and memorable character designs. Part of the frequent comparisons between male and female sides of the cast (how persuasive you find that will vary of course) is intended to highlight that the team clearly could do more if they so chose. Because the team clearly can be creative, and because the team feels reasonable and reachable rather than some cynical commercial project is I think why some folks get frustrated by the perceived continual return to limited female designs.

flat grove
#

I think the sole reason why it draws so much chatter is mainly because of how convinced the bad actors on the pro sides are of their takes tbh its basically ragebait xD

untold fox
#

which side is the pro side?

#

just trying to trace the terminology

flat grove
#

Oh typo

#

Character design and the thought that the game is sexualizing its characters

#

Like some takes are just wild

vocal crest
#

Clearly you are not biased at all as you said above...

#

At least you took action and decided where the line was crossed and took moderator action. That's progress!

flat grove
#

Calling out the extremes of both sides of the argument is bias

#

Ok

#

Like i get it youre still upset about me disagreeing with you last time but you dont have to lurk on this channel and try and attack everything I say to get ur gotcha moment 💀

vocal crest
#

It is embarrassing how badly this thread is being moderated and the impact it has on the direction of the conversation. This is not an isolated experience to the thread.

#

I'm trying to do you a favor by pointing that out.

flat grove
# flat grove Character design and the thought that the game is sexualizing its characters

As in the people that are very extremely pro character design and think that all designs cant have any issues and the people that heavily think that all female characters follow some sexual formula. I think most takes around people thinking that designs could do better around designs outside of the sexualisation aspect were pretty chill tho, hard to argue against peoples preferences to begin with shouldve worded that better initially probs had a long day sry

vocal crest
#

If I wanted a gotcha moment it would have been above when you spelled out that mocking people is good and definitely not against the very clear server rules.

broken wharf
flat grove
# vocal crest If I wanted a gotcha moment it would have been above when you spelled out that m...

I havent said its good, just that people will meme and ridicule points in a discussion constantly in a public open discussion especially on a platform like discord which is heavily within internet culture. I never said its good just that its something that will always be around in varying severitys and i dont wan to be the one to rate humor. If thinks get out of hand and insults get thrown around and people start mocking eachother instead of the points that were made i usually time them out and we have been banning people for that too for ages now

#

And again just take it to dms atp

#

Thats the last time i said that

#

I already took it there last time and you didnt even respond you dont want to help me or discuss this you just wanna get me back for whatever bs upset u initially

broken wharf
#

Join the movement #FreeTheBalls

vocal crest
#

I'm not going to DM you feedback about this. I'm going to follow the server rules and give you direct feedback rooted in empathy.

flat grove
#

Cool

vocal crest
#

#📜│rules message

weak coral
#

What in the passive aggression

flat grove
#

Yes i know the rules

broken wharf
weak coral
vocal crest
#

Good, do you think telling people they have mental illnesses or mocking their arguments is rooted in empathy?

broken wharf
#

That's reasonable too

#

You are welcome with us

flat grove
vocal crest
#

I am glad to hear that.

broken wharf
#

No paqt

flat grove
#

Yes, mb i should genuienly just stop responding

#

Such a waste of time

weak coral
#

No mod wants to check here because its a cesspool
I think the thread has reached its time
It should be closed and then allow a new character design thread to come out on Nyx's release

vocal crest
#

🤷‍♂️

#

Same exact thing would happen in that thread too

flat grove
#

Yeah it doesnt really change the fact that the same people will just make the same points

hollow crane
hollow crane
untold fox
#

maybe, but the tenor of the base topic does shift what people new to the topic are generally coming through and assuming it's about.

#

how quickly, aggressively, and consistently it becomes 'the same thread' can be different

indigo verge
#

male equivalent of cleavage

indigo verge
flat grove
#

Whatever bro i genuienly cba argueing about it more than i already did just never post anything like that again 💀

indigo verge
#

you can say that about most other cleavage but keyholes are not worn casually

flat grove
#

I literally was out with a friend earlier this week that wore one. We were eating at an asian and talked about anime

#

Women dont dress for the sole purpose of what dudes think about them lmao

#

Clothing is something people use to express themselves beyond that, i could ask her why she did wear it but knowing her shes just gonna tell me that she thinked it looked cute on something else

#

I dont even think it skirts around social norms or anything theres way more clothing that exposes alot more in that area i dont think this one is as bad as u think it is and i think asking to strictly use clothing that doesnt expose any skin in that area would just not really represent what women wear as much as you think they do

#

Comparing that to a cutout that shows a whole ass shaft instead of stuff like muscleshirts is insane to me

#

Which i wore heavily because i was super proud of my body before i got sick i didnt even care what girls thought about me because i was still not over my ex lol

#

And also watched way too many jojo videos T.T

indigo verge
#

you can wear lingerie too without sexual intent but that doesn't take away that it's a piece of clothing that is made to sexualise

flat grove
#

I dont think a keyhole is inherently sexual, just as much as i dont think a top with a wide space between the shoulders and the breast is, like camis or other stuff. I dont think showing a bit of cleavage is comparable to something that either only covers the breast or nothing at all

#

Those kinda tops are also a ton more common in casual wear, keyholes if at all special, are just because they are alot more rare at least in my experience

#

Its not even a hole between the breast or anything, its above and only hints at what u deem so problematic with that bit of shade. Wether it makes sense for the design is up for everyone but seeing how much her shoulderplates boots and horns stick out in game together with her weapon im kinda glad they didnt pick anything bulky for her top while the keyhhole top adds alot to the overall ragged look imo.

#

I need to play her first ofc

#

But i think im gonna love the design ingame im all for armor and horns that stick out like that

#

To add to ur previous comparison, yes it is definetly comparable to a guy with a muscleshirt but if the guy has a massive ego, looks like someone that is obsessed with muscle or has anything else that hints at him just being super confident in himself id totally get it just like i kinds like the vibe with this character since looking at hee horns and big ass scythe kinda makes me feel that shes gonna be hella confident in herself too

#

Thats also why i really dont get it with mercury on top of it being something youll rarely ever see worn without that kinda intent, it just made 0 sense for her to look like that to begin with imo

indigo verge
#

are you implying that if a character looks like she'd be confident enough to wear an outfit in public then it's fine it's clearly sexualising them?

flat grove
#

Thatd only make sense if i felt like they are being sexualized to begin with. As i said for me keyholes arent more revealing than a cami or any other top revealing as much and those are worn alot more commonly. The reason why i think confidence is making sense is mainly because i think it takes confidence to show any form of how you look that clearly in general alongside probably alot of other reasons that i dont understand on the female side since im just not born one myself, i just hear that often about even camitops but generally anything that isnt super gracefull to ones body. I think that it takes alot less confidence to just wear a hoodie or anything baggy for example since its great at masking alot of how ur body looks

#

Also obv something that isnt worn the most will always require some amount of confidence to be worn to begin with

gentle summit
#

hot is 9/10 times better than ugly its that simple jesus chrust

vocal crest
#

Vuli, can you explain it to me why hot is better? And who is it better for?

gentle summit
vocal crest
#

I don't follow, can you expand?

broken wharf
#

Omg yes i agree i want to know too

gentle summit
#

guys n girls are tonna give more of a shit about their story n what not if character is appealing, character not completely ugly, fat and having 50 identities helpe with that. Doesnt mean u cant have that in the game but understanding that going about it as if making characters look good is completely irrelevant is retrded

vocal crest
#

I'm still not sure I follow.

gentle summit
#

unlucky

indigo verge
#

i dont get it either

heavy magnet
indigo verge
#

can you elaborate

gentle summit
vocal crest
#

It would help me to understand it better if you could provide some examples that help illustrate your point.

indigo verge
gentle summit
#

ahaha

#

concord is just an ez example but not the best one

#

obviously that shit failed vor carious reasons

#

but saying characters werent apart of it is delusional at he same time

#

its not that deep

indigo verge
#

the characters sucked because they had no art direction

#

it really goes no deeper than that

gentle summit
#

ye i agree

gentle summit
gentle summit
vocal crest
#

I'm sort of just struggling to follow your argument. Hot characters are better because people pay more attention to them?

gentle summit
#

just so were clear im not hating on any group of ppl or domething i have no issues with any1 rlly

gentle summit
# vocal crest I'm sort of just struggling to follow your argument. Hot characters are better b...

Well most or in many cases more ppl are likely to is the point. It doesnt mean that u cant have a game go big with for example only ugly or fantast characters, but it means that it can be a drawing point regardless and is one often utilised wether in numbers or quality. League is one of the best examples of a mixed world. With fantasy, sexualisation etc. (im ngl i low little to nothing regarding league champs identities so i cant judge on that part, but i wouldny care for example to disocver my otp isnlesbian r smthng xd)

vocal crest
#

Who determines what is hot or not? Is there a helpful guide / strategy to approach this with?

gentle summit
#

General sense, what are beauty standards for most people thats what hot in the case of this arguement

vocal crest
#

For example, I just looked at dota 2's most popular characters by pick rate and it looks like the top is pudge. I guess since he is so popular he must be hot

gentle summit
#

big bobs can be one but can also be excluded and made up for

#

it doesnt have to check all boxes

#

cn be as simple as normal body pretty eyes n hair

gentle summit
#

its not mandatory or critical

vocal crest
#

Just better?

gentle summit
#

snd pickrate is not rlly accurate way to judge that anyway cos more shit goed into pickrate than a feeling or draw y have to characters no?

gentle summit
# vocal crest Just better?

Let me put it like this. Do u see the nuanced difference in a hot, sneaky, dark assassin vs a unpopular, clumsy, but highgly talented and lethal assassin? U can picture it in a superhero story maybe. Its similar to considering batman & robin. U have to understand what kinds of people are drawn to various things. And attraction is one that can work for the full 100% or less in many many people. So while at the same time that an ugly or we character can be most popular u can have another character that has more appeal in terms of drawing ppl in or how interesting the character is

#

even pudge

#

the character is less of a factor than lux in terms of popularity

#

and if im wrong there i would be turbo shellehocked

#

ask every girl playing lux why they love lux so much and ull get similar answers in every direction. Whereas pudge u prob get more nuanced andwers more easily

#

n both are fine

gentle summit
#

i think im allowed that one since he called me incel

heavy magnet
#

That, and the “you want fat and/or ugly Hunters!” excuse. It’s pretty clear they just want women to look the exact same.

gentle summit
gentle summit
heavy magnet
gentle summit
#

pointless n baseless arguement

heavy magnet
#

“but it Valve game!”

And? If you’re not gonna learn from one of the best video game franchises of all time, then you shouldn’t be making video games.

gentle summit
#

the way u judge is wrong because “theme of game” is why ur not accurate

#

when considering for specific reason overwatch, league and dota u cannot throw in portal with that

#

but whatever

heavy magnet
gentle summit
#

Yea

heavy magnet
#

It’s doing just fine with a female cast that blows SUPERVIVE’s out of the water.

gentle summit
#

deadlock is very well done

#

they likely understand what im trying to say and what ur trying to say

#

and how their games visiok connects to that

#

its a good balance

#

they sre likely to grow and grow over time wether that growth starts sooner or later idk but those devs are talented and well spirited

hollow crane
#

more like dookielock

hollow crane
keen lark
#

I’m gonna hit you guys with a controversial opinion

#

I like attractive women

#

I will now turn off notifications and see how many funny little red numbers I get from this post

vocal crest
#

Yet the first character he played was Brall.. curious...

flat grove
#

Hes fake as fuck

dry forge
# heavy magnet That, and the “you want fat and/or ugly Hunters!” excuse. It’s pretty clear they...

This is smth I honestly have always found dumb with whatever you say. You say they look the same/similar and I literally just do not see that for 99% of the female designs. You can call them bad all you want but calling them all similar just doesn't feel true at all to me. "But they have similar body types" is another thing i find dumb. Like, so what? Wtf is the issue with similar body types?

vocal crest
#

What do you think could be a potential problem with similar body types Vulture?

dry forge
#

Maybe these people are indeed asking for fat women like people have been saying 😃
Idk bro, it genuinely confuses me.

vocal crest
#

Yeah, that's probably it

#

Good point

dry forge
#

I mean, if we wanna use their logic with that a good ampunt of the male designs have bigger shapes. Must be bad design or smth

hot latch
#

tl;dr

We all want to characters to have more meaningful details that express personality diversity

vocal crest
#

True.. where is the twink representation...

#

Hwei my beloved

hot latch
#

Zeph is a child

#

ayo

vocal crest
#

But yeah great points great points the men are too fat agreed

dry forge
hot latch
#

Celeste

#

Hudson

#

Mercury

#

I don't even think that Mercury has a personality tbh

#

I can't tell what she does/like

vocal crest
#

There is a window with which you can look into her personalities

dry forge
# hot latch Mercury

Merc I can actually agree with but hudson celest is just sumb tbh. It's another case of ignoring anything but body type.

#

Merc does indeed feel bland tbh

#

Both kit and character lol

hot latch
#

I don't think that express enough personality to me

dry forge
#

That's fair. Feels like you call her "bland" when you say that lol, which i just can not agree with.

hot latch
#

If they only change the ice spears to a different format that express something from her lore like idk. Her ice spears are like a trident because of her master or anything like that, she would have more personality

vocal crest
#

Yeah would her being FAT make her look like more of an ice mage?

#

🙄

hot latch
#

I'm not talking about gameplay kit tho

dry forge
#

I hewr that a lot but I just don't see it.
(Anyways calls cya)

hot latch
hot latch
# dry forge I hewr that a lot but I just don't see it. (Anyways calls cya)

Sorry to ping but just continuing my argumentation.

I think one of the key things to make something with visual personality is to give atleast one strong personality mark that DIFFERS from other characters from the same Fantasy.

For example:

  • Eva is a Succubus that has a pair of glasses (not saying that a pair of glasses is top tier personality mark, but I can't recall seeing a succubus with glasses, Eva is controversial).
  • Joule is an eletric mage archetype (wow, how authentic) BUT, she likes rock 🤟. I can't recall seeing an eletric mage that have this type of characteristic.
  • Kingpin is well design in overall, very authentic, they mixed a lot of things that just works well.
  • Void gives his personalitty mark by his actual visual and standing pose (The void hands from void is arguable but I've seen void characters with void hands already).
  • Ghost is a soldier with a machinegun (wow peak design), but he differentiates with his long hair and color palette and mage type skills.
  • Saros is arguably well designed imo (but the whatever in his back is, it should be more clear, if it's a SUN don't make it look like a lava lamp)

Then we have like:

  • Hudson that is a juggernaut with a Minigun and Beard (These personality marks are not so authentic right, yes I know about the rocket boots but ingame we can't even see that).
  • Celeste with generic ice spears and a gym costume.
  • Mercury could have a great personality mark with her Gun, but they made underboobs her personality mark (why)
  • Shrike is a sniper that has a sniper and a bird. (I swear I've seen this in any other game but can't say where)
  • Jin is a assassins that clones himself (wow), but his arm is painted in 144p. Just detail it more and we're good

All these small things leads to some generic feeling towards character design in Supervive

tiny yew
#

"You want ugly/fat characters" isn't the strawman people are claiming it to be.

Here are all the things that apparently count and do not count for anything in terms of the design of female characters, and their silhouettes, for the people that want more shape diversity:

  • Proportion sliders < doesn't count, derivative
  • Clothing < doesn't count, no effect on body shape
  • Height < doesn't count, no effect on body shape
  • Horns/secondary non-human traits < doesn't count, no effect on overall body shape
  • Animalistic/Furry < doesn't count, too...marketable???
  • Large weapons < doesn't count, no effect on body shape
  • Fat < 🦗
  • Ugly/Monster < 🦗

It's not a strawman to say some people in this chat want characters who are fat, ugly, or monstrous. It's a process of elimination. Any means of making diverse female characters that isn't fat, ugly, or monstrous, somehow doesn't count.

#

What else is there tbh?

#

Am I missing something?

untold fox
#

See, it's not a strawman, because I'm saying it's not.

vocal crest
#

What about the strawwomen??

#

and the strawchildren...

tiny yew
indigo verge
# tiny yew What else is there tbh?

it's funny you put ugly and monster as the same. also half of these points you're saying people are making have just never been made. nobody said animalistic/furry characters is bad for example. many people here are literally calling for more animalistic characters and saying elluna is EXACTLY what they want more of. also, its called body SHAPE for a reason. just make them a different SHAPE. elluna is again a good example of this. you don't have to make a character fat for them to not have an hourglass shape. you're also forgetting muscles

#

also yes large weapons and clothing doesn't affect body shape cause they're not part of the body. ain't that hard to understand surely

tiny yew
#

This was ages ago in this thread to be fair

indigo verge
#

i've been around for the entire conversation i literally started the thread

vocal crest
tiny yew
#

You must have missed the part where Mr. 64 was arguing that making a thin woman who's super muscular doesn't count because it's just 'proportion sliders'

indigo verge
tiny yew
#

Still the same hourglass shape so it doesn't count

indigo verge
vocal crest
#

Yeah, vuli was right, nuance

indigo verge
#

what i think he's trying to say is that just adding some muscle tone to a character that is otherwise still the same hourglass shape as everyone else is not enough

#

like with tetra for example

#

actually muscular women tend to have a much more defined core

#

more like Zarya from overwatch for example

untold fox
# tiny yew "You want ugly/fat characters" isn't the strawman people are claiming it to be. ...

Like, maybe I missed someone, but generally people are saying elluna is actually the exception to the extreme concentration of character designs (and tarring a side with things outliers said is a form of strawmanning)

Then weapons, clothing, minor inhumanities like horns, and small proportion are good things to distinguish, but conspicuously exaggeration and body type can never go so far as to disrupt being an idealized, conventionally attractive body for female characters

Like, nyx. You could lean into her deathly aspect by her being super gaunt and lanky, a void style reaper. You could lean into her being physically powerful and imposing with heavy muscles to being this dangerous scythe wielding warrior. You could give her heavy protective armor to be a knight with futuristic cyber and or gothic deathly equipment. Instead we have a version that maintains a slim feminine ideal body type in a torn leotard. That's a conspicuous choice, and one they seem to constantly make with their female characters that they don't with the male cast.

tiny yew
#

Elluna IS the exception. Which is why I was scratching my head when M64 tried to discount her

#

And why Nyx is apparantly a step in the right direction

#

Literally makes no sense

#

Pete, you're at least being consistent

#

M64 is not

indigo verge
#

i think you're probably just ignoring any nuance to his argument

#

which ill admit he is also usually kinda bad at conveying

#

but i'm willing to bet he was probably arguing that JUST having elluna isn't enough for character diversity

#

and that the fact they ONLY have elluna as an exception to their rule makes her just plushie bait, like they needed a marketable mascot rather than actually wanting to have a unique female cast

tiny yew
#

The reason for Elluna being different doesn't matter though

#

It only matters that she is

indigo verge
#

well yeah, but the point is that only having a single character be different isn't really enough

untold fox
# tiny yew Pete, you're at least being consistent

People are people. Definitely gets confusing when someone's idiosyncrasies or opinions make their stance hard to follow. Generally try to keep things anchored to debating the basic ideas and how discussion related to that helps, so we're at least working on a common frame of reference.

indigo verge
#

it's a step in the right direction but it doesn't solve the problem

inland apex
#

Truly, the most problem of all time HYPERkekDog

hot latch
#

I think if all the body type were the same but the characters felt cool enough people wouldnt bother

indigo verge
#

the fact that the male cast IS diverse in shape but the female one isn't is the main problem

inland apex
#

I need ghost oiled up twerking in a banana hamock

hot latch
#

Indeed

indigo verge
#

it's called a discussion thread buddy people discuss things

#

the game has 3000 fundamental problems

#

you're allowed to discuss any of them, you don't have to discuss only the one you care about personally

inland apex
tiny yew
#

I've yet to see a single suggestion of the kind of character the 'more body diversity' camp has for what would be an improvement that wasn't some kind of monster

indigo verge
#

bro you literally made this account to post here, presumably cause you got banned

#

idk why youre trying to get banned again by derailing

#

just give it a rest little guy

tiny yew
#

True for some, not for me. My team won 5th at VIVECAMP

hot latch
hot latch
indigo verge
#

account made yesterday, joined the server on the same day, name is mocking someone else's name in this thread, half of your messages in the server are all in this thread

tiny yew
#

Thanks. Sorry that came off as a brag. It was just supposed to say I'm an active player

indigo verge
#

least conspicuous alt account

hot latch
dry forge
indigo verge
#

@flat grove can you do your thing now please

tiny yew
#

It's been explained why it's still open

#

Per the mods that's literally why it's being spammed

hot latch
#

I don't think they see the discord very often

#

yeah I wouldn't

#

that's why I wouldn't

dry forge
tiny yew
#

Devs don't track threads by whether or not they're at the top of discussion, they use the 'star' emote system

vocal crest
#

i mean i'd play supervive if it had more players.. kinda boring to just farm the paqts of arena queue every game ya feel?

hot latch
vocal crest
#

hopefully they can get more!

indigo verge
#

the star emote system Clueless

tiny yew
#

That's why there's the 'starred for devs' channel

indigo verge
#

they definitely still look at that Clueless

tiny yew
#

They probably don't look that either true

#

But if they looked at anything that's what they'd look at

vocal crest
#

They look at the vive council's messages

hot latch
#

if

flat grove
inland apex
flat grove
#

Dont zeph and jin fall under that ho

hot latch
#

jin yes

#

Zeph is a child

vocal crest
#

No choker = doesn't count

flat grove
#

Oh he knows

#

Hes a real one

hot latch
#

Isn't Hwei heterosexual

inland apex
#

Too many twinks in league

#

Need me buff men

flat grove
#

Wdym bro

#

Braum

heavy magnet
#

<@&1169318934902739024> Can you deal with this definitely not real account?

flat grove
#

Taric panth

heavy magnet
flat grove
#

Sett???

inland apex
#

Sett got a twinkish face

#

HOWEVER BRAUM

#

Can get it

hot latch
#

bro is typing

inland apex
#

Now trhats a man

flat grove
indigo verge
flat grove
#

Oh singwave actually did i was just about to go for the firsr ping i got

#

yessir i got into the channel first, my discord is buggy somtimes and doesnt jump directly to the message when i click on mentions

hot latch
#

how many accounts does paqt created already

#

20?

flat grove
#

so i was scrolling throuhg messages c:

flat grove
hot latch
#

bro must REALLY love supervive

flat grove
#

add a 0

indigo verge
#

i guess every game's community has its own Valien huh

flat grove
#

maybe even another one ngl

#

i stopped counting

#

but hes been creating around 5-10 per day for months

hot latch
#

We do have a South American paqt tho, so I can relate to Nerryl

indigo verge
hot latch
flat grove
#

He thinks that when people joke, they joke with him and not about him

#

which is hilarious atp, noone here thinks ure sane or takes u seriously paqt i know ure reading this

heavy magnet
hot latch
#

Tbh his consistency of creating accounts and joining here is a little impressive. By "impressive" I mean literally the meaning of the word. It's kinda unbelivible

inland apex
#

Hes a hero for that

indigo verge
heavy magnet
#

Because they put all those examples without realizing that exaggerating all of them would make more unique designs.

tiny yew
flat grove
#

that guy is literally taking hours out of his day daily to do this

#

he likely has no social life, nothing that actually gets him going in terms of hobbys and we know hes likely never leaving his house

#

I know you guys think its funny and all but mental illness is super serious these people wake up one day when forced to reflect on themselves and have to fight against all the time theyve lost

#

if they wake up at all

hot latch
tiny yew
#

Can't really do much about that if we don't know that's the case. Some people just hyperfixate

flat grove
#

yeah fs

flat grove
heavy magnet
#

Nyx is what they should have done with Bishop from the start, and it seems like we’re on the right track now.

flat grove
#

those arent even crazy "strawmen" btw, all of these arent hella risky and have been done before with huge popularity by others

tiny yew
#

Nerryl is there any way to stop this thread from being bumped to the top with each post without locking it? I feel like we'd get fewer trolls and complainers that way

flat grove
indigo verge
#

and female diversity in gaming is unfortunately very controversial

flat grove
#

im not kidding

tiny yew
flat grove
#

I like nyx as her own thing alot more, i wouldnt want too many characters like her in the game tho, she has very very distinct things that make her stick out and if there was too many characters like that itd probs just be overstimulating at some point, i like the "lean" approach league and deadlock have with it

tiny yew
#

TO BE CLEAR. I like Nyx

#

I don't understand why you do

heavy magnet
#

And her animations feel way more heavy and brutal than most of the female Hunters.

tiny yew
#

I only saw the teaser I can't comment on that yet

heavy magnet
#

Oh yeah, and she's called a Cybernetic Death Knight.

flat grove
#

I mean yeah but then again for a military design that makes total sense no, they hit the nail on its head with her, the only thing i kinda miss is headgear with bishop

tiny yew
flat grove
flat grove
#

generally the skins redeem the base designs alot imo

hot latch
flat grove
#

oh yeah definetly, i couldnt call her amazing without aknowledging it

tiny yew
inland apex
#

Less skin, I guess

flat grove
#

i think the technology they both use are super different from eachother to begin with, maybe hes confusing that

heavy magnet
#

It's not much, but it's a step in the right direction.

#

Let me guess, this is where you move the goalposts again.

hot latch
#

Something that bothers me in Nyx is that I can't tell if she's a human or if she's like a zombie

tiny yew
#

My complaint is that there were no goalposts to begin with

flat grove
hot latch
#

I see

inland apex
#

Nyx being undead would be pretty cool ngl

hot latch
#

Agreed

flat grove
#

shes a frontliner from what i understand, looking at the vid and her design kinda makes me think shes aatroxish, draintank/bruiser

#

How much of that will actually transfer into the current meta is a different question xD

#

we still have the 100% antiheal mechanic so unlikely shes gonna play around selfheal too much

hot latch
#

These type of characters are usually strong and low elo problematic