"Armory is good and will bring more people to the game"

[lucid flame]

I have no issue with the game not being solely for comp players anymore

You didnt read what I typed

And that makes me sad

[latent sun]

• a game can be attractive for competitive and casual players

[lucid flame]

If I want to play brall I obv wont exfil with healing boots

But if I want to play elluna or Eva I will

[lucid flame]

That was the whole idea behind my suggestion for the armory

Try to find a system that appeases both playerbases

[tawny swallow]

Sorry maybe I misunderstood

[lucid flame]

I dont understand the point of this

Under my system ur rewarded for playing diff builds

Bc if u win with them you get copies

Since u need like 3 to get to a new level

You would need to experiment with diff builds

If you DONT get to keep what you won with why would I ever want to not play my main builds

[tawny swallow]

Why do I need to lvl up items which is not meta?

[lucid flame]

Bc you want to

Casuals will always do what's fun

Not what's meta

Thats what competitive players will try to do

Sometimes they overlap

[tawny swallow]

I mean, you're talking about creative casuals

[lucid flame]

But if you look at like supervive stats

Theres at least 3 diff takes on what's meta on characters at all times

Go to op.gg

Theres like 12 permutations of winning armory builds

There is a demand even if you are a competitive player to level up different items

[tawny swallow]

I think that you have wrong reasons why that happened. When people can't lvl up items that they want they can't run meta build

But if it was like in League or Dota there would be only 1 meta build

[lucid flame]

If you cant level up the items i want thats an armory issue

I personally think with a little tweak you should with playtime be able to make the build you want to play

I dont really care if people run meta builds

The point is not to stop them but to create a system where you are rewarded for experimenting with different builds

Rly simple at its core

If when I win I get a copy of the build I used (or I get to choose one from the build) I am incentives to experiment with different builds so I can get to at least 2 stars with a variety of items

[tawny swallow]

The main reward for every ranked player always gonna be win

[misty creek]

I thought the armory was supposed to be this game changing thing that reimagines how we play the game, but really it’s just buy from a different shop in the first 5 mins of the game and never interact with it again until the next game

It would have been a lot more cooler if they made items upgradable, so you actual have to consider spikes at different times, it also allows more diverse builds thought out the entire game rather than just deciding right at the beginning

[tawny swallow]

Fully agree with you, gameplay loop is pretty flat at the moment

[lucid flame]

And the point isnt to replace that

But to give an incentive to experiment

[tawny swallow]

Your suggestion is to progress armory unlocks faster through playing not the best optimal build, right?

I don't see how that would work, it doesn't really change or fix anything from the current Armory

[viscid mural]

I would have even taken stronger effects with a more gradual per game economy over the current implementation. To only reach full build by the endgame but every item purchase drastically bumps up your power could have been interesting imo. Rn Suoervive is missing the progression of strength that OB had, even if OB's strength progression was super gradual.

[tawny swallow]

Thats what 1.0 should've focus on xD

[misty creek]

I think it’s a lot more interesting to budget your power and future power rather than just get 5k gold and buy everything you want.

[tawny swallow]

This ^^^^^^

[misty creek]

I also agree that early game during OB was a lot more interesting since fighting before shopping felt like a decent right with power shards

[lucid flame]

It fixes a couple core issues with the current version of the game

[tawny swallow]

And this 5k gold you spend on your Armory items which can be stronger or weaker by definition

[lucid flame]

1. Is that it encourages experimentation and not running the same build every game

2. Is that it placates a core playerbase that does not wish to engage with the rng the system has created

[tawny swallow]

I don't what to engage not only with the rng but also grind to be stronger

[lucid flame]

I dont know what this says

[tawny swallow]

Current Armory forces you to roll and grind items, both is bad

[quick karma]

Yea

Finally something we agree on

Armory is trash, takes the progression out of each BR round and places it on play time and RNG instead

[cunning ruin]

I'm honestly surprised they didn't do this. It seems like the obvious thing to do. And I do thjnk it would've been 100x bettwr than this

[tawny swallow]

We were probably always agree on this haha
Just different thoughts on how to fix it. Some people suggest to remove prisma and capsules entirely, some want to find middle ground

[lucid flame]

Oh thats what you mean

Yeah I agree

The way I see it the way out is to try to make it so if you dont want to roll you can just grind harder

Roll and grind can still be an option

[tawny swallow]

But your system also has grind to get stronger later which is not ok with me

[lucid flame]

Thats just how the armory works im afraid

Unless you do a complete rework which tbh i wouldn't want TC to do rn

[tawny swallow]

We can find a few examples where meta progression doesn't make you stronger, tho all of these games are single player

[quick karma]

unironically armory would be better suited to an MMO/RPG/some kind of long grind story experience. This was marketed as a moba br and they completely shattered that with this launch

[tawny swallow]

We have more than 3k messages on this post, believe me those things were said countless times

[cunning ruin]

Unironically a supervive story mode would go hard.

Has nothing to do with the topic of this thread 🙂

[tawny swallow]

They gonna add this in the sequel

[quick karma]

honestly I'd be down for a no-items version of the game like smash bros melee tournament style no items, 3 lives, final destination/battlefield lol

This game is basically a platform fighter but they took out 90% of the game and made it grindy + it's just all ledge guarding/smashing now

[muted wagon]

In my dream world Supervive has modded community game-modes

[lofty gate]

Do i understand this correct they are making you grind to get the build that you want and can play with items and that is in a gambling session? And then next season u got to restart it again?

damn i really loved to just hope in a not be handicap from the start.

i mean the first time unlocking some of the stuff might be fun but not trying to go for 8 more of the same time while gambling and then getting it reset

[viscid mural]

I think (pure conjecture) the idea is that each season is an entirely new set of items, which offsets some of that bad feeling a bit for me. I'd personally be excited to unlock an entirely new set of items if the current system was altered a bit to at least let me get everything at 1* before giving me dupes

[quick karma]

There should never be duplicates/prisma from capsules

That's such a scum mechanic that doesn't respect your time lol

[cunning ruin]

Sinc this post is about the armory ima just share https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1403915429751033987

Just throwing around an idea I thought of and really like.

[bitter merlin]

One squid in 340 capsules, most of them white. So my only hopes were the daily shop, which the past few days for me have looked a lot like today... uhmmm

Im a void main, but noo, let force void to ADAPT.. huh, hard against shivs that move faster than my stun/ult and I have no dash to dodge her anything... Besides that, fun times are still being had..

[slender girder]

average daily shop

[quick karma]

dupes and shop being stuff already maxed feels illegal lol

[lofty gate]

even seeing this mean it has to been grinding ur ass off 😄

[slender girder]

Can we discuss how it's not only the armory that is pure cancer?

The current meta has boiled down to buy relics and camp relic shops

[tawny swallow]

By the "meta" you mean gameplay loop?

[slender girder]

By meta i mean meta

there's absolutely nothing to do in the map after farming to 6/7

and teams HAVE to go to a relic shop

camping one ensures that someone will come to you eventually and that there's going to be at least one team that is significantly weaker

This leads to everyone avoiding fighting and the end game being 7+ teams alive into the last few zones guranteeing a clown fiesta of a game

[tawny swallow]

I think that balance and meta issues can't really be solved until gameplay loop and Armory are solved

[visual cloud]

Relic shops are an important point of interest to funnel teams into fights, otherwise with the current map size, there would be not enough pvp and the game play loop would feel way more boring and dead. As long as there are not enough other point of interests, you cant really change it. And fighting for the control of the POIs is way more interesting than just having fights for the sake of it

[slender girder]

The only solution to the armory is to remove it

[slender girder]

Relic shops achieve the exact opposite. Everyone is avoiding relic shops as soon as you see they are being occupied

[tawny swallow]

Everytime I play my POIs goes in this order: shop -> relics shop -> UAV

I'm not the best player, but I feel like it's the most common situation

[slender girder]

No one is going to fight a team that has relics when they have no relics

[tawny swallow]

And uav is just to find a fight for the sake of fight honestly

[slender girder]

and as I mentioned before the end result is 7+ teams every game till the map is too small to fit them all hence a clown fiesta ensues

[blazing mason]

people like having more teams in end game

[slender girder]

Who is people

No one likes clown fiestas and third parties

[blazing mason]

Right sorry for not backing this up with examples, but if you ask any person commenting on the Wukong dunking over abyss thread, you're likely to find them to enjoy that kind of game more than hot dropping, win the drop, stomping in day 1 and having 3 teams by day 2.

[lucid flame]

Thats absolutely a game issue not an armory issue

After u go relic shop in an ideal world you start killing each other

But they need more important things for people to gather around

Or more incentive to fight

[bitter merlin]

Another day and another shitty daily shop and tons of white capsules. I think im going to take a break from the game. Obviously not fun since I am against people with grapple 2 or 3 and mine is only 1... fun times Tc.. real fair.

[normal terrace]

no no they respect ur time and ur grind so they will not be doing any balance changes rn to some items :)

[hybrid scroll]

Grapple needs no nerf because it requires aim

[solid hound]

First of all, if you're gonna mention Nidhogg, at least watch his video on his take on the armory. It's nonsense to mention him when he sees virtue in the armory system.

I'm honestly flabbergasted people unironically think you have to (direct quote) " grind 24/7" to get these items. It's been two weeks, measuring by weekly chests, and I already got all of the items, and some of them to level 3, all of them to level 2. I don't play 8 hours a day, I usually complete daily missions and that's it. I claim the free capsules from their X account. I just do stuff in game and get them. I still haven't seen a single argument against the armory that doesn't come from basically PTSD from other games ("gacha bad, riot pls"), and if you feel you need to grind prisma, maybe it's a skill issue.

regardless, even when the armory first came out, I didn't feel any impairment on my gameplay. I still could get grips and relics from many sources, even if I don't have them on my armory. I can steal them, open vaults, they even drop from mobs.

[flint blade]

my boy has 100 crates open and 50% armory score
I have 140 ish crates opened and 85% armor score

he was literally crying about only getting greens the past 3 days

i dont hate the armory system, but if that was me id be tight

[solid hound]

yeah, a lot. I even open capsules one at a time just to see the animation.
It's fun, and it's the first time I feel a connection with the items I get, and don't just get overwhelmed by 100 different items at the same time. I just read them as I unlocked them. Compare it to league, where new players need to spend time reading the items on the shop before buying them. Time they should be spending actually playing the game.

[flint blade]

I disagree. Played arenas and then brs with my other noob friend
dude literally has 0 items in his armory, was malding about doing 0 damage
i have to waste time buying him items

just give everyone rank 1 items imo

[quick karma]

I've got maybe 80% armory score? I do a lot more than dailies and I've got everything unlocked except for a lot of perks and tbh I've got a couple things at lv3 and a few at lv2 but I mostly get prisma from capsules

[flint blade]

not fun being a noob and having no items and then playing in your friends games everyone is kitted out

[quick karma]

Yep

"how do we get new players? How do we keep them" shit on them relentlessly with massive gear gap and tell them to gacha it out until the suffering is bearable

[flint blade]

Agreed, its only bad for NEW NEW players tho

i only have 25 hrs on the game and got every item i need

[quick karma]

Fuck the dude who made armory and his whole villain arc while nidhogg glazed the shit out of him in their "interview" lol

[flint blade]

i dont think its that bad to complain about crazy

[quick karma]

It's mostly beta players who are pissed ig because we had a system that was fair if a bit shallow and needing a few tweaks and they just throw the whole game in the garbage and all the integrity of any given round to force people into the worst kind of gacha.

This isn't arknights lol, this isn't some money laundering mobile game, at least yet

[flint blade]

nahhh at least they arent making the gacha P2W

[quick karma]

-_-

Gacha should only be cosmetics

If you're doing it at all

And even then that's basically gambling

And now you're gambling for the basic shit to even play the game

[flint blade]

I don’t really agree
It’s what makes games like genshin so addicting

[quick karma]

This isn't a tcg I'm not here to open packs and pray I get whatever is OP this season

[flint blade]

Honestly it’s the only reason I’m grinding super so much

I want every good item 3 starred

[quick karma]

Nah this game shit itself and I'm glad people are vocal about the armory one way or another

[flint blade]

And it’s not like you can’t win with 1 star items
In other gacha games you are literally gate kept until you find said items and the % chance is minimal most of the time

At least you can find the item you want and win to extract it

[quick karma]

If you find the item and win with it it's not unlocked for you idk why you think that

That'd be cool though

[flint blade]

Really oh I’m mistaken i don’t know where I heard that

They should really add that

[quick karma]

Yea it's pure gacha baby

You're gate kept until you find stuff for your characters

[flint blade]

Unfortunate

[quick karma]

Good luck playing Ghost or Elluna without dash engine or going against anyone with a lv2+ idol and/or songbow with grey grips lol

[flint blade]

Either win or land magebog I guess 😂 and pray

My love for crysta is definitely gate kept by not having the items needed for her

This one item 3 starred literally makes her ult refresh off one cycle of abilities

Just never gonna find it 9 more times

So I agree and disagree
It has positives and negatives

[solid hound]

brother the "massive gear gap" is barely a passive
Gorger Talons give the same omnivamp as the grey omnivamp gloves
I can agree that it feels unfair not having grey relics, for example. But we all started playing with 0 items on the armory, and if it was such a big deal, we wouldn't be having this discussion because everyone would feel like they can't play the game. All these items do is change your playstyle.
People seem to think these items define your character like they define your champion in League, when it's not true.

The only situation I can see that having a leveled up grip is an advantage is at mirror match ups, when one Shrike outranges the other, and even still, that's only a factor if you assume both players are scripting and play at max range and space each other perfectly, which never happens to new players, which is the demographic that seem to be the concern here. And if those new players match up against those ungodly players they're gonna get fcked over either way even without items

[solid hound]

oh no, I had to play 2 games to get a new grip

that's the other thing, exaggerating the amount of time it takes you to get them it's not a real argument either. I say "I already got them all" and they reply "uhm ACTUALLY I got them too" as if that doesn't prove my point, the system is barely out and everyone complaining already got them all

[viscid mural]

One of the players I know's hunter couldn't function in 1.0 without a specific grip that he was unlucky enough not to get for a week.

I personally did the Legend grind and have dropped significant amount of free time into the game and do not have 10 perks, some of which are very strong

It also took me 2 weeks to get the 1 relic I wanted to run on my hunter

[flint blade]

some hunters are literally different hunters with 2-3 star items
shiv is dog without items
crysta is dog without items

joule is always dog

i literally cannot play crysta and carry because i dont have diadem leveled

[viscid mural]

Nevermind being severely behind the curve based on dupe luck and overtuned effects at 2/3*

I was at a severe disadvantage in ranked for the first week and a half because I simply low rolled on dupes and couldn't get the t2+ effects that would make my hunter more viable

Also because I chose not to farm unranked like certain folks

[flint blade]

saying items dont define a character being good is 100% not true

[knotty scroll]

I would not even be mad about the armory if it wasn´t for the fact that at some point youi get 75%+ white capsules

[flint blade]

most good characters are only good cause items

[viscid mural]

I'm there rn. Most of my capsules at this point just give me prisma back and I have like 4 items total at 3*

It seems like the capsules are weighted to give you dupes of finished items rn (pure conjecture)

[solid hound]

don't you think that hyper-focusing in what you want to get and judging a game system based on a specific case is not really a good metric
and we already know that balancing games around ranked is never healthy either

[solid hound]

don't they give you 600 back, so you basically just roll again

[knotty scroll]

problem is at some point you have more finished items than unfinished (cause of perks, boots, grips) if it was only relics it might even be okay-ish

[solid hound]

and if you had some prisma before, get another one for free

[knotty scroll]

but with all the items it´s tooooo much

[viscid mural]

Depends on item rarity. More ofren than not it's 225 or lower.

[knotty scroll]

nah 225 for greeen duipes

[slender girder]

most common is 225 or 100

[flint blade]

so next season armory resets?

i might cry if that happens

[solid hound]

that is odd, I always get 600 from capsules I purchase, and 100 if it's from a redemption code

[viscid mural]

Luck diff 🤷‍♂️

[solid hound]

okay now that's something we can all agree it sucks ass

[flint blade]

thats kinda trash

[solid hound]

idk where you read that tho, I hope it's not from the devs

[flint blade]

i heard that somewhere in this discord

not from a dev

[viscid mural]

If I were the only one this happened to I would feel a little less confident in my judgements, but I've seen it happening everywhere. Players I know, people on reddit, people on discord, etc. It seems to be a very common experience right now to be locked out of items you need for your hunter to function.

I do agree balancing around ranked is generally a bad idea, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this is something that heavily affects fun factor in unranked as well

[flint blade]

was asking to confirm

[flint blade]

only reason I play wukong is cause i dont have crysta or shiv items leveled

guys i swear im not a wukong main 😱 dont hurt me

[viscid mural]

Originally yes, but the theory was that it'll be an entirely new item set.

Considering the major backlash to the idea we can probably expect things to change or the reset to have more of a reason. Personally if it's a new item set and the armory is a lot more foegiving I don't mind a reset.

[viscid mural]

Dw I abused the shit out of him to climb. Ghost felt so unbearably unfun with Shiv being as broken as she is.

Monke let me anchor my team and keep up with the infinite mobility meta.

[quick karma]

What a ridiculous straw man, ofc the green grips aren't too crazy compared to their grey counter parts

The point is you get a new player in the game and hope we have some infinite growth type shit where there's constantly more new players to match them against when in reality their gonna be put up against leveled armories and people playing at least some build even if it's not optimal and be told from the get go "skill issue of you want to win get good also pray to RNGesus you get any gear relevant to the character you want to play ALSO some items are so broken at higher tiers you basically can't do shit if the player is any good like idol lol"

Items absolutely define what character you pay. Realistically I should be a shiv main with my lv3 infuser and lv2 Weaver

But I did my best to get Ghost going even without dash engine or anything really to make him good I just got lucky and got tier 3 sword at least

But a new player isn't going to know how to make the most of garbage RNG or what relics are essentially built in win conditions

Anyway I better get back to work ig

[visual cloud]

My only question i have: How long do we have to deal with the broken 3 star relics/grips until they get fixed? Majority is catching up and they are available for most of the players now. Cant take fights with 3 star relics serious anymore. Perma (diadem) ulting Christas/Tetras, Perma RMB spamming Wukong, Spiderman Squid, Shiv healing more with Vive Infusor than any healer. And hell knows what joke builds will come up with a fixed Resonating Idol. You could name pretty much almost all Relics.

Fights turning already into the one-shot festival it was before 1.0. I am afraid that we have to deal with this for the rest of the season.

[viscid mural]

Urf shouldn't be the main gamemode call me crazy

[old coyote]

I love how one of the first issues I highlighted with the armory system was how it required a high enough population of players to accommodate a wide enough distribution of players at different states of armory completion...

And here I am (a middle-of-the-road player) facing exclusively armory abusers in my lobbies

And I don't even have enough hours in to run the overtuned builds if I wanted to

There probably isn't even a system to match similar armory levels together, quote me on this

Game balance is in the shitter rn, 2/3 of the roster is unplayable because of this 1.0 untested shipment

And TC is going pretty much radio silent, likely because they adopted a more muted approach

I'm guessing they expected a higher playerbase which wouldn't accommodate more case-by-case dev presence and/or SEA publisher pressure

[hushed bough]

Yeah the radio silent thing is annoying. They did that one interview where they basically said "armory could be good, we're gonna keep changing it to try and fix some of the issues" and they haven't said anything else

Just kind of letting the game bleed players

[old coyote]

You mean that Nidhogg interview? The equivalent of a police precinct investigating themselves and finding no wrongdoing?

[brave perch]

could delete all items double health, game still wouldnt be in a very good place. but the focus appears to be on getting players to play more > game good

[old coyote]

Except the flowchart should be game good > play more

Right now it's obtuse, frustrating, difficult to learn, unbalanced

[slender girder]

Call me crazy but right now I feel like Shiv damage and Wukong mobility are the biggest offenders

Everything else is manageable

Relic stuff is a whole different story

[old coyote]

Nope, these two are outrageously higher offenders

Yeah relics are a problem

Diadem & Idol are massive problems

Sunweaver, Infuser

[bitter merlin]

INCREASE TTK- would help a lot. I thought they had for 1.0, but honestly only feels like KP is more tanky, everyone else still squishy and dies in under a second.

[old coyote]

I'd say most passive relics are a problem, in fact

They exacerbate self-sufficiency of character kits

There's no sandbox if it's just "character X op, play it"

Powers are the way you customize your character's playstyle and make interesting builds

[potent tundra]

what would u rather they say "this sucks and we wont change it"?

[hushed bough]

I'd rather they say "this sucks, we're going to revert it"

Spending their time and money trying to salvage this demonstrably disliked system seems foolish. But who knows maybe they'll manage to make it good

It's just a question of how much time can they afford to spend experimenting

[potent tundra]

Its been less than a month, saying they should revert it seems a bit reactionary

[hushed bough]

Arguing semantics about whether the system is good or bad at this point is a dead horse. Some people think it's good, I think it's bad. The facts are the game is losing players

I'm not silly enough to blame that entirely on this system but I will say personally I stopped playing after the first 2 days because of the system singlehandedly

[potent tundra]

wasnt ur initial point about semantics

just not sure why you would have a problem with them saying theyre gonna try to make the game better

[hushed bough]

👍

[old coyote]

Sunk cost fallacy at this point I think

[hushed bough]

ye I've argued this topic enough at this point, people can scroll up through this channel if they actually care about my oppinion

[old coyote]

They spent so much of the investors' money on this version of the game that at this point I'm pretty sure they can't back down

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some breach of contract clause

[onyx locust]

New Patch:
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1283700/view/516343590335546673

Armory came out so far what they did:

• Increased Prisma gain
• removes duplicates from capsules
• removes duplicates from shops
• changes costs from 8000 per item in the shop to 1000
• gave everyone lots of prisma and codes

How many more nerfs are we gonna add to the system until we realize that the problem IS the system?
This is like Brall all over again, instead of reworking Brall when he has the kit to do everything you constantly nerf him. A YEAR STRAIGHT #1400244574513008912 message because numbers were never the problem, his whole kit was

You strip away everything the original armory's system and now it's just a time gate for people to play and interact with items, at this point I'm curious really on what is the point? If this is for onboarding it's questionable since the people that I invited to play this game and refused to play at the single mention of gacha and being greeted by the gacha from the armory coming from someone whose friends are addicted to gacha games and moba

I stopped playing SV during open beta on the last month waiting for 1.0 only to be greeted by such a different game. I'm hella frustrated but idk anymore

aside from the armory complaints from me, the rest of the patch is good. Dunk changes I personally like might be a bit controversial

[quick karma]

I like the dunk changes because now we at least have a chance at engaging when half or all of the map is abyss lol

[safe stump]

Well they're not out yet

next week

but yes

[final sphinx]

I've just reviewed about 800 clips from November 2024 until now. 97% of dunks I did were at full health. I quite rarely dunked someone who was half HP or lower. Most of the dunks were me getting chased over abyss because I was low and the enemies were quite healthy due to winning the previous fight.

So basically dunking is 100% useless with the change

Really bad change imo as health is not something that should affect dunking because this mechanic is the only way of winning a fight against hunters you otherwise don't have the chance to face in a 1v1. Think Jin vs. Felix

I would've been more then fine with glider heat being a factor for dunking. The more glider heat you already have the stronger the dunk. This would allow you to savely cross small gaps of abyss without any danger of being dunked and also take air rings/wind tunnels with minimal risk to dunks while allowing hunters like Jin and Wukong to still thrive in extended abyss fights.

[safe stump]

Good :)

Like honestly

good

[final sphinx]

Rework Jin then

[safe stump]

now you have to play around fighting opponents actually, not just, a kind of cheap one-shot button

[safe stump]

I've heard he's getting numerous buffs to compensate

faster lmb's, antiheal, etc.

not sure how much of it is true but

[final sphinx]

Jin will NEVER EVER be able to kill a Felix or Eva ever again. No matter how big the skill gap between those players is

[safe stump]

idk about that

The dunks still do dunk just less so

And tbf I think a character having to dunk to deal with characters is just silly

It's not very fun at all to play around dunks

[final sphinx]

Any dunk that doesn't kill is useless on a melee character. You cannot follow up on a dunk that puts people low in Abyss and forces them into having to glide. Melee attacks have a height restrictions and cannot hit people who are low in Abyss.

[safe stump]

yea

But hopefully you have teammates who can

^^

Like void stun isn't gaurenteed to kill someone in abyss

but if it gets them super low in abyss they probably still die

because they have to glide to get out of that situation

(or mantle in place which makes them take a ton of dmg)

[final sphinx]

If they fix matchmaking I might. In it's current state I'm quite glad if my teammates know how to buy items

[cunning ruin]

The game has become a lot more team oriented. Which can be looked at as both a good and bad thing. I think it'd be overall a good thing if we had more people for actually good mm. Since you can no longer reliably carry it feels like shit to get bad teammates.

[bitter merlin]

GOOD- HE isnt supposed to.. He is a melee assasin finisher type hunter, He isnt supposed to one shot Felix or even be able to trade with him. He needs his team to wittle the fox down to half hp before you go in and do your thing. Its a team game, stop treating it like 1v1 matchups.

[final sphinx]

That would go against TC's design philosophy however. When they switched from Squads to Trios they decided to focus hunter balance to solo carry potential. They want every hunter to be able to win the game by himself (Which I don't entirely agree with, but that's another topic) if the person playing is skilled enough. That's why hunters like Elluna, Zeph and Oath have received major damage buffs for example.

And this concept is true for every hunter. Exept Jin when these changes go live

Right now you can still solo carry and even win vs. Felix or Eva as a Jin. All you need is Airblast or Bubblegun and you can force them over Abyss with a good setup and some skill to then dunk them.

[hybrid scroll]

Man this mentality hurts so much

I liked the focus on unique strenghts and weaknesses characters had and the teamplay it would enforce

Not to mention it wasnt equal in the first place cus we would have simple and functional kits and then we would have kits with EVERYTHING shoved in

[cunning ruin]

They've kinda gone back on this with 1.0. Most hinter can barely carry or literally just cannot at all. In the past every hunter could, which really helped with aolo que but made the game feel like a solo game rather than a team game. They've changed it ao playing with a team is kinda required now, most hunters struggle to carry. Which makes aolo que feel like ass, but also makes team play feel like it matters a whole lot more. And I feel like the solo que feeling like ass issue wouldn't exist with more players

[sterile iron]

teamplay would matter more if my team was people with actual hands

[hybrid scroll]

Truth!

[safe stump]

[cunning ruin]

Wait, that's what I'm saying :(

[bitter merlin]

Tell that to Joule XD She cant kill anything right now

[bitter merlin]

Also TC's philosophies seem to change a lot throughout the past 4-5 years- First it was a focus on making a competitive, community oriented team based battle royale- which was the main reason I was interested and what it felt like during the steamfest (and Alpha from what Ive heard) - Now its more on solo carry potential, onboarding new players and changing the game every 6 or so months without much testing (doesnt look like its going that well hey? spending time and resources into bots and new ideas rather than proper hunter balance and bugs doesnt seem like its helping with player retention btw) ...
These past 10 or so days have seemed more promising than the past 10 months in terms of communication and listening to the community again, so I still have hope, but yea, not so much in what they say, just what they will do.

[quick karma]

Play Joule in warm up and she's incredible, something changes to BR side though

Yea TC has pretty much shot any faith the long standing player base had in them and doubled down / came with a weird attitude about it

[final sphinx]

My Duo mate I climbed to Legend with was a Joule Main. He didn't have any issues killing everyone.

She's in a kind of weak state right now. But she has no matchup that's straight up unplayable. Oath is the only one that's kind of annoying

[tall lance]

what about tetra

[final sphinx]

The same as any ranged hunter vs. Tetra

Walls are annoying play around them and don't throw all your cooldowns into them

[tall lance]

yeah but i mean the main problem is that she can block joule dash, can be annoying in a lot of situation

[final sphinx]

She can not reactively place the walls. They're too slow and don't have collision yet before joule passes them. She needs to place them before or right when joule gets to 4 stacks. Joule just needs to use her brain and expect it to not waste Shift Cooldown. That's literally how this game works.

Play around your opponents kit

When I want to dunk a Brall as Jin I also have to think of his R. Act as if I want to dunk to bait out the Ultimate and then dunk slightly delayed.

[undone orchid]

Team play with defeaned randoms 🔥