#"Armory is good and will bring more people to the game"

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

tight oriole
#

31h 20 mins

#

Armory

#

Will post updates when I get 100%/100%

hushed bough
#

And then another 31 hours to do it again next season

tight oriole
#

Yes

#

Better than 2000 hours it took me to get 170 champs in League

#

Lemme tell ya

#

And if I take a break for 3 months

#

I don't have to grind

#

If I take 3 month break in League

#

I still have to grind

#

Do catch up grind

onyx locust
strange forum
#

why are we back to comparing characters to items

hushed bough
#

You don't need to own every character in League to be competitive, I think you need like 10 to queue ranked?

tight oriole
onyx locust
#

you can one-trick in League I don't even know what this guy is talking about 😭

strange forum
#

even if they are the same you dont need every champion in the game

hushed bough
#

And most players play a small pool like 1-5 characters

tight oriole
#

If I drove a car and get a new one means I can't drive

#

Or what

strange forum
#

are you clocking random in every lobby with fill as your roll?

onyx locust
#

lemme tell ya

tight oriole
#

I agree with you on this

#

But we can't have that

#

And that's what you refuse to understand

#

Not in a F2P model

hushed bough
tight oriole
#

We can but then characters are gonna cost Prisma

strange forum
#

give me that please

tight oriole
#

I said it 10 times now

onyx locust
#

what is this guy saying 💔 this has been the same system since open beta 😭

tight oriole
#

But this system isn't as bad as people wanna make it think

tight oriole
#

Idk what the crying is about then

onyx locust
#

we aren't suddenly gonna get prisma buyable hunters

tight oriole
#

HAHA

#

Like what

hushed bough
#

Can we just all unite and say "hey devs, use a conventional character system instead of armory" and then maybe they'll do it?

tight oriole
#

I'll have full armory in <100h less

#

And do it every season

#

while you perma cry

#

I don't get the conversation we're having then

#

Really

#

Why are we even having it

#

You don't like it, I don't like it

#

I prefer your way

#

Or the way you agree with

#

What are we arguing over

#

I'm saying it's not that bad, you're just still crying

#

And my past experience with League etc and other games I mentioned

#

Prove and are fact that it isn't as bad as you're making it out to be

#

Elephant tears

hushed bough
#

No idea, it seems like you're agreeing it's bad and then we say "ok so let's campaign for a change" and then you say, "what? it's not even that bad"

tight oriole
#

No I'm down for change

#

But people want

#

EVERYTHING FREE

#

AND UNLOCKED

#

It's not happening

onyx locust
#

yeah like before

tight oriole
#

We all know that

#

It's either gonna be unlocking characters or items ingame

stable bobcat
tight oriole
#

or some other tedious thing for us F2P players

stable bobcat
#

the game needs a purpose to play, specially if it has no players

tight oriole
#

That don't wanna spend money on their game

#

They need to sustain it

onyx locust
# tight oriole And my past experience with League etc and other games I mentioned

yeah because you make 0 sense

you compare items to playable characters in a different game and in that said different game you only need 10~15 characters at most to be able to play ranked competitively and it takes you less than a week or so to get to that amount. The only thing holding you back is the level 30 requirement

You keep talking about League and it's not even the same system 😭

You say we're gonna get a horrible F2P system with Hunters able to be bought with Prisma when that has never happened and has always kept the same system since open beta. Where did this assumption even come from

tight oriole
#

You only need 2-3 in Vive as well

#

It never happened, but Armory happened

#

So if you want armory gone

#

Prisma for Hunters it is

#

Cuz you're not getting it all for free, on a plate

#

You're not a paying customer

onyx locust
#

that's not even bad 💔

tight oriole
#

I agree, it's not

#

I want that too

#

So can we stop

stable bobcat
#

idk, ok armory is bad, you change it, what do you place for players to have a reason to play daily and come back

onyx locust
#

bros all over the place

stable bobcat
#

what system would you include to prevent players from leaving

tight oriole
#

If you can get all hunters in 50h and have everything unlocked

#

How do people stay

onyx locust
#

I don't know I'm not paid enough for that. You don't have to be a chef to know the food is bad

stable bobcat
#

but you are on a 3 stars restaurant expecting a 5 stars quality

tight oriole
#

^

#

+1

onyx locust
#

then make it better?

#

we all want a better game

stable bobcat
#

its not about the game is bad

#

its about the game is small, population is small and development team is small

#

the big ones, can afford to not have retention systems

tight oriole
#

40k peak

#

5-10k average daily

#

Good luck

strange forum
#

40k peak was in december

onyx locust
#

just because the team is small doesn't mean they're immune to criticisms like this, stop looking through rose tinted glasses and ask why the community feels this way

tight oriole
stable bobcat
#

league of legends can afford to give champions for free, your friends play league, your classmates play league your brother plays league, you will get in the loop of ranked games or aram spam in the night without even realizing it.

But supervive? Cmon you need to beg your friends to play the game, the game needs to keep players somehow, or ppl will see 1k online, say: meh, its a dead game, and go log in on the next hype and populated game

tight oriole
#

Valve

#

Crazy

stable bobcat
#

fortnite on its early seasons didnt gave ANY SHIT for free, why? because they didnt need to, when they started losing a bit of momentum, its when they started giving free cosmetics.

When companies have a popular product they can do what they want with it

onyx locust
#

this whole argument doesn't make sense

stable bobcat
tight oriole
#

Free with a grind

#

Let's not forget

#

The grind is the armory you're crying about in Vive right now

stable bobcat
#

HoN was killed by league, dota was a mod, dota 2 was made by multi-billion company, starcraft 2 was buy to play until it became free on 201X

onyx locust
#

getting characters is not the same as gambling for items

tight oriole
#

Characters = Items

onyx locust
#

💀

tight oriole
#

Same shit, unlockables

stable bobcat
#

like, the isue is, you need to give a purpose to play

tight oriole
#

I can't play in Masters elo League without all top laners

#

You can't play competitive Vive without all armory

#

It is what it is

#

Stop pretending it's not the same thing

onyx locust
stable bobcat
hushed bough
tight oriole
strange forum
#

bro i got to masters on kaisa ezreal trist and mf

tight oriole
onyx locust
#

this guy has to be ragebaiting honestly respect if it's a hustle

tight oriole
#

Same way you can go Vive

#

And play without whole amrory

#

But you're handicapped

#

And unless you post your Masters account right now in chat

#

I don't wanna have this League argument

stable bobcat
# hushed bough Yes you can

you can have an horryfing experience playing camille into volibear because you are otp, yes you can play to not lose the game, same with vive items, his comparison is not that bad

strange forum
#

even if you are only playing one role if not that many champs

#

regardless champs are not items

onyx locust
#

Sykii it's not that bad because it fits your narrative

I would've been fine with any other comparison but his doesn't make sense

tight oriole
strange forum
#

turtleking676 #NA1

coral swift
#

Onetricks climb to challenger.

#

I am confused by this argument.

onyx locust
stable bobcat
tight oriole
#

Same build

#

It's what one tricks are in League

stable bobcat
#

you can get rank 1 legend without max armory too

#

its not a good argument

#

that onetricks reach challenger

#

imho

onyx locust
tight oriole
coral swift
#

However, many challenger players in League will tell you that the best way to climb is in fact to onetrick.

#

I am not convinced this is true of Supervive's items, because most of their effects are passive.

tight oriole
#

It's the same for supervive

#

Play 1 character

#

1 build

coral swift
#

Excluding certain active relics.

tight oriole
#

With smallest alterations

#

And call it

hushed bough
# stable bobcat you can have an horryfing experience playing camille into volibear because you a...

If you own like 3 good top laners you're fine, and each of those champions has their own unique build diversity. None of them are necessarily inherently weaker aside from dev balancing and counter matchups but competitive players know this and play accordingly. Super vives system means no matter what character you're playing, you will be at a disadvantage until you have all items fully upgraded, which takes a long time, and will reset every season. If the system is made to retain new players, it simply won't. If it's made to keep dedicated players play time up, it also won't, they'll go play something where they can instantly queue competitive without having to do an arbitrary grind first

coral swift
#

The problem with that is that with a onetrick in League, you can adapt your playstyle to do certain things.

#

In Supervive, you cannot adapt your playstyle efficiently without the items for it.

onyx locust
tight oriole
#

You deserve it

coral swift
#

If I want to go full tank Kingpin, but all I have is an Isochron's and a dream, where will I get my Essence Reaver, my Titanic Bond/Greenwood Grasp, et cetera?

tight oriole
#

It's same shit, different package

coral swift
#

Ah, but you can make a decision in League.

#

You cannot do so with Supervive.

tight oriole
#

You can also decide what you're gonna play in Vive to a degree

coral swift
#

To a degree is the problem.

tight oriole
#

You can say, okay, I got items for supports and tanks

#

Or supports and DPS

#

That's what I queue and pick only

strange forum
#

but as a new player why they want to be told only play these roles even if they dont want to

coral swift
#

The fact you cannot make an informed decision about what to do with your Prisma is a much greater crime than the fact you have to make decisions with it at all.

tight oriole
#

And really I would agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that 30h in I can already play every role

strange forum
#

they would quicker stop playing the game

tight oriole
#

But that's the dopamine aspect they're hitting

#

The addiction

coral swift
#

They are certainly trying.

tight oriole
#

The forge change was good

#

1k for all, good

#

Same price everything

coral swift
#

On that, we agree.

stable bobcat
#

this loop what causes is

#

once you get your grabby 2 stars

#

you will want to try to play it with everything

#

when you get x legendary or purple 3 stars

#

you will want to try the most broken build with it

#

just for the sake of testing it

#

atleast its what its doing with me

#

I was an shrike otp on the openbeta

#

I am trying every hunter now

#

and since the armory is progressive, I do it while I unlock the items

#

for me in that sense is a good system

tight oriole
#

I was on Shrike for the first 15h of my gameplay

#

Now I'm on Wukong only

#

And I don't wanna change

stable bobcat
#

like I think they can keep improving

tight oriole
#

By the time I realized where to look up items and winrates on hunters, I already had half of what I needed

stable bobcat
#

for example yday I had a discussion with a guy, and he was saying that as a casual he would like to unlock all the armory in 30h

coral swift
#

We are all speaking from a competitive player's perspective, however.

stable bobcat
#

and I think thats fine, bur for that, you need to hard limit the prisma acquisition of the grinders, so the system last more for them too

stable bobcat
#

game doesnt have population

coral swift
#

No, no, we are.

#

I am stating that we are speculating.

stable bobcat
#

a game without a decent population will never be competitive

coral swift
#

Debatable.

#

(Fighting games.)

stable bobcat
#

well

coral swift
#

But your point is largely correct.

stable bobcat
#

fighting games

#

with 10k players

#

you can get

#

5000 simultaneous matches

tight oriole
#

^

#

That's also very true

coral swift
#

Fighting games don't have 10k players.

tight oriole
#

They don't

#

But if they had 10

#

They'd be viable

stable bobcat
#

sf6 has like 30k no? or 40k

#

for a fighting game that is probably enough ye

#

supervive needs like 100k minumum to be viable

#

idk how they will reach it

onyx locust
#

went to go get some food for a bit and conversation is about fighting games in a topic about armory

stable bobcat
#

but atleast they need 100k or 50k

tight oriole
#

I'd say 50k

#

50k to stay healthy

#

Good skill ranges

#

Noobies and pros

hushed bough
#

Competitive is too loose a term, if you mean games that have competition, dnf duel has tournaments regularly and it's player base doesn't appear on steam community hub

stable bobcat
#

until they dont have yeah, 30k 50k players you cant really care about competitive, theorycraft doesnt give a fuck about competitive most probably right now

#

they need players to survive

onyx locust
hushed bough
#

^

stable bobcat
#

if game doesnt somehow grow from this, if they try another 1.0 situation you guys should be happy

onyx locust
#

I love this game and love 1.0. Armory is my only problem. Update is a solid 9/10 without armory

stable bobcat
#

like I think they still have budget for trying another 1.0 thing with re-launch, but I would not be surprised if the game doesnt succeed here it closes

#

i wish it does grow

hushed bough
onyx locust
#

I did my best to rope in my friends as much as possible but they just yawed away from the gacha system

stable bobcat
#

but that is why they care so much about retention, if pop goes under 5k peak again game is donezo

#

its sad, hard, but true.

onyx locust
#

#ripsquads

stable bobcat
#

yeah I was not a fan of squads thing

#

but squads died because duos was the biggest mistake this game had

#

or atleast top 3y

onyx locust
#

they confirmed that squads will most likely never return and just focusing on trios

#

all the hope that I had was gone

tight oriole
#

What are squads

#

4?

onyx locust
#

yeah

stable bobcat
#

squads will only return if this game reaches 300k ccu daily

tight oriole
#

Would be too hectic honestly

#

Already is

#

Once you get 9 people on a screen

onyx locust
#

I really thought trios was temporary considering they did zero balancing for it on release

#

but it's permanent now

stable bobcat
tight oriole
#

Turtling perma or what

#

And who gets a pick

#

Goes in

#

Or what

stable bobcat
#

end high mmr circles were just hard engages with oath/kp

onyx locust
#

Oath was too strong, Zeph was too

stable bobcat
#

8 teams alive in last circle

onyx locust
#

Oath's AOE was just too much

tight oriole
#

Oath is incredibly unintuitive to play

onyx locust
#

he is

#

plays like shit but once you learn him he's one of the most broken hunters in the game

tight oriole
#

Tried him for 5 games

#

Went back to Wukong

stable bobcat
#

I would be happy if oath gets deleted from the game, but I guess that is a good reason why it exists

hushed bough
#

Team size 3 seems fine. Apex did it to much success

stable bobcat
#

I wish apex had solos

#

like

#

ranked

#

not a random 4fun mode

onyx locust
#

I wish Apex was actually successful

#

game has been dead since FF7 rebirth shenanigans

hushed bough
stable bobcat
#

I mean if apex it dead supervive is on the grave

stable bobcat
hushed bough
stable bobcat
#

apex is a popular title they could've done well with solos

onyx locust
#

at least Supervive is getting sponsorships, I haven't seen a single Apex video on any of my social medias, ads or whatnot in a long time

tight oriole
#

They kinda have to get sponsors

#

They're a new game

stable bobcat
#

EA is not interested on spending money on apex

#

EA's new BR baby is battlefield

strange forum
#

i mean I feel like everyone who would play apex has already tried it

#

not much need to advertise it more after all this time

stable bobcat
#

the industry just needs new live service f2p games..

#

(not marvel rivals chinese knock off quality )

tight oriole
#

Never tried Rivals

stable bobcat
#

supervive is the freshest thing to release in.. 8 years almost

tight oriole
#

Yeah, Supervive is great fun

stable bobcat
#

since fortnite / pubg / apex we are empty of titles

#

the ones that get launched either fail

onyx locust
#

there is Asurajang and I think it's better than Supervive but yeah game is so dead it's painful 💀

stable bobcat
#

or are bad

#

yeah I mean

#

an AAA f2p esports title

#

that is not made by valve

#

because deadlock will have the same issues as dota 2 for the general playerbase

#

it might get away with it because its valve

tight oriole
#

Deadlock is insanely hard personally once you get to a decent MMR

#

Way too stressful to be fun

#

At least high intensity moments in Supervive leave you with joy if you win

#

Here it's just a sigh of relief until the next clencher

#

I win a blue vs gold armor, I'm balling, screaming on VC

#

Picking that shit up

#

MMMMMMMMMMM\

#

Find next team

stable bobcat
#

artstyle also wont allow for having cool cosmetics

#

something that supervive actually does

tight oriole
#

I'm 50/50 on Vive cosmetics

#

Some are banger, others are meh

#

Some can be unlocked with the VP

#

Some only with cash

stable bobcat
#

yeah but you can have banger cosmetics

tight oriole
#

Which is a bit of a

#

But it is what it is

stable bobcat
#

are there any dota 2 banger skin?

tight oriole
#

I get it

#

Dota 2 has BANGER skins

stable bobcat
#

like dota2 skins are just kekw

tight oriole
#

But they can be very expensive

#

And you can mix and match, I used to do so

#

Grab a hand off of one skin set and put it on another because it fits better

#

Transmog like in WoW basically

stable bobcat
#

yeah but compared to a legendary league skin

#

idk

tight oriole
#

Looks better

#

Trust

stable bobcat
#

I only like cs2 skins

#

because you can resell them

#

they are just cool, and expensive due to scarcity

#

but valorant skins are cooler

#

for me is the same in deadlock

#

you will be able to have cool skins

tight oriole
#

I will DM you the set I used to rock

stable bobcat
#

but supervive highest tier skins might be better

stable bobcat
#

I mean ye it looks somewhat cool

#

but idk not appealing for me haha

quick karma
stable bobcat
#

yeah, duos was very bad, very very very bad

tight oriole
stable bobcat
#

squads sometimes had too much

#

trios feels decent

tight oriole
#

Whole spell has different effect just like League skins

coral swift
#

As a 1 player, I was eating good with recent Arcanas.

tight oriole
#

I’m waiting for more Supervive skins

#

Then I might spend a few

stable bobcat
#

yeah I guess I cant be objetive about it, dota 2 artstyle never appealed for me so, I wont say they are bad

stable bobcat
#

atleast in terms of particles

#

the fire has a very nice texture

#

and sadly for me because I love shrike, dark order skin is kinda meh

#

particles are decent model is meh

tight oriole
#

Nah nah

#

Underworld Kingpin

#

In the Luxe edition

stable bobcat
#

for that I prefer oni , maybe too otaku for some

midnight token
#

This isn't a system that's being adjusted 5 years in the game's lifespan

#

It literally came out a week and a half ago

#

It's going to have issues

quick karma
#

yeah they didn't even bother beta testing it just went "fk it push this utterly unblanced pos live"

hushed bough
#

^

lucid flame
#

I do agreethhat the new changes make the armory much better

#

I like them a lot

#

But there's still a fundamental problem with me not being able to just play what I want

#

I cant run ghost because I didnt unlock bloodlust boots yet

#

That shouldn't be something that happens in a game

cunning ruin
#

You can still run him you just gotta play a different build.

I am not trying to excuse that it is an issue with the armory i an also not the biggest fan of. But it is wrong to say "I cannot play ghost cus i don't have these specific boots" or smth along those lines for any other character.

vernal raven
#

yall acting like the loot box is p2w

#

this randomess imo is bis but after a week or 2 most REAL players will have their build

#

and like any other game, if u dont put in the time, u dont get the cheese

#

do yall go complain on cods disc bout tyou having to unlock and upgrade guns as u play

slender girder
#

yeah go play league and beat a full build adc when you only have long swords

vernal raven
#

spend less time complaini on discx and more time playing

#

u might get somewhere

#

i really like the armorry

image.png
slender girder
#

spend less time doing the sucky sucky 3000 and more time thinking

#

The armory is beyond dogshit

#

legend players spent a week trio qing normals and roflstomping new players to get everything unlocked

#

and now they are running around with tier 2 and 3 epic and legendaries roflstomping ranked

vernal raven
#

the only flaw of armorry system is tghat they listened to u fools and lowered all the prices to be samer price.. legge same price as a green, gtfo

slender girder
#

are you ragebaiting or just incredibly dense

vernal raven
#

what. having to work for said item in said game is ragebaiting?

hushed oasis
#

This will cripple the game

vernal raven
#

bye

slender girder
#

aight notes taken

vernal raven
#

i bet you also was a 1999 doomer and a 2012 too

cunning ruin
#

Just wanted to point this out, but if this happens it is a mm issue not the armory issue. Cus mm is supposed to make it so the armory for most players in the lobbie is at about the same level.

vernal raven
#

yea mm is kinda broken, id admit that

#

im trying to ranbk up in a gold lobby and i have 2 bronze opn my team

slender girder
cunning ruin
cunning ruin
# slender girder that's a blatant lie

But it isn't that's the thing. I can't even say something you guys said isn't really true cus then you guys just say it's wrong and don't give any reasons why it is wrong.

vernal raven
slender girder
cunning ruin
#

There's like 2 things... you may dislike more but that's more so just you not liking the game so idk why you even play it or talk in here

slender girder
#

The game already has trouble balancing around mmr, it can't afford to balance games around armory as well

vernal raven
#

you and the developers have a diffderent vieww of what they want they game to be

cunning ruin
hushed oasis
#

Nah that game sucked, fix armory and everything will be fine, just put all the items in the game. Makes 0 sense to have progression based, this isn't a MMORPG

#

I don't think this game will die

slender girder
#

The game's already bleeding about 1000 peak players a day

lucid flame
slender girder
#

the armory is a band aid on top of hundreds of other band aids strategically placed all around the wound

#

none on top

lucid flame
#

Be useless to my team?

hushed oasis
lucid flame
#

Greif others for no reason?

cunning ruin
slender girder
cunning ruin
#

If i can run hudson no vamp i guarantee you can run ghost no vamp

viscid mural
slender girder
#

There's bugs and complaints ever since the start of open beta that haven't even been looked at

hushed oasis
#

Idk looks like a to be determined type chart

Screenshot_20250802-114622_Brave_1.jpg
cunning ruin
#

You cannot judge now yet people are. It's kinda crazy honestly

vernal raven
#

look at EVERY new game, it declines after launch until it gets its basew

lucid flame
#

Hes a vamp character

vernal raven
#

new world survived with only like 2-3k players a day

slender girder
lucid flame
#

Hes meant to be ran with vamp items

hushed oasis
viscid mural
#

New hunter drops every 2 weeks for the next 3 hunters will keep people interested enough to have it installed that ling and hop on at least once per patch.

It's within that 1.5 month window that TC needs to address the major concerns and issues. That to me is what makes or breaks the game.

vernal raven
#

im of to PLAY this SHT game

viscid mural
#

Also steady content drops overall will be huge. OB dropped off so hard because of the MASSIVE gaps between patches and content early on. They just left the game to die in Hudson/Brall meta for too long

cunning ruin
# lucid flame I mean thats the point

Yea, but my point is he doesn't need vamp. Pretty sure most don't even run him with vsmp items. No character really "needs" stats.
It does suck when you can't run atuff you think your character would like but I do also like unlocking stuff and then itterating based on what I got. Even tho that is smth people often do complain about. It's fair to not like it but I do.

cunning ruin
viscid mural
#

Is she a problem at more average elos?

#

I was under the impression dunks were more of a problem there

#

Also Shrike lol

#

The mega filter

cunning ruin
viscid mural
#

Yes

#

But not at low elo

#

At low elo she's a monster

#

Because no one has learned how to play around her yet

cunning ruin
#

She's ight. Not bad not op. She can work even at higher elos but there are 109% bettwr options

viscid mural
#

We have a couple Shrike players in NA that can pop tf off even on the current patch

onyx locust
#

Hudson is so dead it's not even funny

viscid mural
#

But we're not under the illusion she's strong lol

cunning ruin
# viscid mural Is she a problem at more average elos?

Seems like less of a problem, but i do still see her being a problem there. I don't have actual data so kinda just what it seems like to me. But even then she woukd push anyone who reaches higher elos off of the game once they encounter the shivs

cunning ruin
cunning ruin
onyx locust
#

they reworked him into the subway slammer but it's not really what he needed

#

what made Hudson fun at least to me is his stationary turret gameplay

cunning ruin
#

His rework i honestly liked. It added a surprising amount of skill expression once they fixed the main issues the first latch after it.

viscid mural
#

Man can we not spam this

cunning ruin
#

Yo can this be considered spam?

viscid mural
#

My dudes

onyx locust
#

that's not needed

viscid mural
#

Let's not

cunning ruin
#

Um ima just <@&1169318934902739024>

viscid mural
#

<@&1169318934902739024> ok

onyx locust
#

bruh

cunning ruin
#

Literally just stop opening it. We were literally having an actual conversation then yall decided "we have to spam this for no fucking reason"

viscid mural
#

Jesus man. This is more than being angry at the game. This is a more personal issue that I hope you get a chance to work on.

umbral magnet
#

Cringe

onyx locust
#

wha

viscid mural
#

Hi Nerryl

onyx locust
#

oh I thought Nerryl was replying to that LMAO

#

hello

lucid flame
umbral magnet
lucid flame
#

I want to play the character how he is designed

cunning ruin
lucid flame
#

I cannot under this system

#

Its frustrating to not be able to do what I want with the character when that was supposed to be the whole purpose of thr armory

viscid mural
#

We talking about huddy? Or which hunter?

cunning ruin
lucid flame
#

Idk what everyone else was on about i saw modhelp pings and ignore it

cunning ruin
viscid mural
#

Wait ghost is super good this patch

#

He gets outhsined by Brall/Shiv but overall he uses the new items REALLY well

cunning ruin
#

When has he not been good let's be real

lucid flame
#

I dont even care rly care about bis

#

I would play vamp even if it was shit bur thats just me

viscid mural
lucid flame
#

I like drain tanks in mobas

cunning ruin
viscid mural
#

So you want to play ghost with vamp?

cunning ruin
opaque basalt
#

Muted for an hour

#

Stop spamming and using modhelp

#

Go touch grass

viscid mural
#

Ty king

viscid mural
#

Unless I'm turbo misunderstanding

lucid flame
#

Im in ranked hold on

#

God run is happening

#

4th place i swear a trained monkey could pilot shrike better than people in shitlow

lucid flame
#

Moreso that I want to engage with the fantasy that ghost promises

viscid mural
#

What do you personally see that fantasy as?

lucid flame
#

His whole kit is about draining tanking and vamping

#

As a battle mage

#

Thats what I want to engage with

#

But under this item system im gated from doing that

viscid mural
#

It's funny that you say that actually because his kit was never designed with that in mind. His old passive was to reset his dash on knock, but then when everyone got that for free in a patch they changed his passive to omnivamp foe hitting abilities as a concession

lucid flame
#

Oh I know

#

I was a big rework ghost guy in beta

#

I did not enjoy his previous kit at all

viscid mural
#

I still personally think the vamp doesn't fit on his kit thematically or gameplay wise. He's a kiter through and through and that's what I personally love about him

lucid flame
#

The way the reworked it so cool to me

viscid mural
#

He Schmooves in combat

lucid flame
#

Exactly what I would want

lucid flame
#

Which was my biggest complaint in previous tests

viscid mural
#

Did you play much eva pre 1.0?

#

She would've been right up your alley

#

Super draintanky

lucid flame
#

Wish I did now that you told me that

#

Im a big drain tank guy in league too love mord and Swain

#

But what im saying is that this is intresting to me

#

I want to play this

#

But I cant

cunning ruin
#

One of the things I originally fell in love with hudson was cus he was kinda drain tank. He had insane survivability while he just drained people's health. The rework took some time to get used to, but in the end I liked it more. Cus after learning the rework it felt like I could do substantially more.

With how much less vamp is in the game it's hard for him to be a drain tank now. I still built him like a drain tank even after the rework but now there just isn't enough vamp in the game.

wicked dagger
#

<@&1169318934902739024> I believe you missed the insult between the spam waves.

umbral magnet
#

Literally timed out

#

OH NVM

willow hinge
umbral magnet
#

xD

blazing sentinel
#

holy pings today, it is a saturday so kids off school

umbral magnet
#

I shouldve checked the message first hahahaha

#

Ty @wicked dagger

wicked dagger
umbral magnet
#

Ill allow it

#

use ur macro

#

i deserved it

#

xD

wicked dagger
#

It's not a macro tho, I do it by hand

umbral magnet
#

💀

viscid mural
#

Handmade flame

wicked dagger
umbral magnet
#

Bro has the superpower of summoning the entire circus on demand

#

All might could never

vernal raven
#

maybe iu got shadow banned fopr talkin poo about their game?

#
  1. ur bad
  2. stay mad
  3. Seethe more
hushed bough
#

This just makes the "armory bad" argument look stupid

#

As someone who thinks armory is bad

vernal raven
#

im a trash player and ive been able to egt this far

image.png
#

mainly because i p[lay the game instead of whine on discord

blazing sentinel
#

guess u didnt learn from the timeout earlier

vernal raven
blazing sentinel
#

nah he got timed out till now

#

and he just did the same thing

vernal raven
#

oh ok

#

rofl

muted wagon
vernal raven
#

its a minority that thinks like yall. ur just the loudest

hushed bough
#

based on what?

vernal raven
#

umm liike every teamate i had playing and my friends, all of them either love amory or dont care

hushed bough
#

everyone I've played with hates it

#

that's not enough evidence to found your argument imo

#

though if you personally like it I'm not saying you're wrong

#

I'm just presenting my oppinion

vernal raven
#

ok and?

viscid mural
#

Anecdotal evidence (including generally most things said in the discord as it's more or less an echo-chamber of certain things) does not make for good data on if a system is working well or not for the masses

#

TC has better data themselves, they'll adjust accordingly

vernal raven
#

dont like the game go play something else. this is the game until further noticew, ur opinion is invalid but for the time being,

#

go.. be hapopy

viscid mural
#

I promise everyone here they will make the best decision they can think of with the data they have. No developer wants their game to die and their job along with it

vernal raven
#

#frewilly

blazing sentinel
#

lets not attack each other 🙂

viscid mural
#

And to be real for a sec:

Arguing in a discord forum does nothing but make both parties angry. It's genuinely a waste of time

#

If it's not a productive conversation what's the point?

vernal raven
#

justy tired of this disc being filled with nobodies saying games ganna die

hushed bough
# vernal raven ok and?

I was in here arguing a bunch yesterday so I dont really wanna rehash the same arguments over again so here's tldr:

  1. I do like the game, I want it to be in it's ideal state and thrive
    2.Objectivley, having a system where you need to grind access for items is worse than characters because buying a character gives you instant access to all options for that character, whereas grinding for items drip feeds the content and presents players much less playstyle versatility upfront
  2. The system right now has alot of flaws such as duplicate refunds, new players having harder times against people who already have items further into the season etc.
viscid mural
vernal raven
#

@hushed bough u cared enough to write a paragraph that im not ganna read

hushed bough
#

he dmed me after I finished typing my rply to berate me for responding

#

he's just ragebaiting, I blocked him

viscid mural
#

That's a bit out of my scope

vernal raven
#

lol ur crazy, someone cant accidently message .. i deleted it right away

#

keep playing victim

viscid mural
#

I'm just here to try to reel us in a bit and help people stop spending time talking at brick walls (eachother. I am also guilty of this sometimes)

vernal raven
#

im just tired of blue/pink haird people ruining everything i namerica

#

even my gam,es now

hushed bough
#

true, at this point I've said my peace. devs will do what ever they decide is correct

viscid mural
#

So like at this point we know no one's mind is being changed. Why don't we go do something that makes us individually happy? Life is short, let's make the most of it :)

hushed bough
#

we're all here because we like the game at the end of the day

vernal raven
#

but do you when u spend hours a day bashing it and saying its ganna die

viscid mural
#

I for one am at work so I cannot do something that makes me happy. But I will be viving in a few hours :)

#

What makes y'all happy?

hushed bough
#

I play music irl, I enjoy that alot

#

drums and concertina

vernal raven
#

games that aint ruined by pink/purple/blue haired people

viscid mural
#

Hell yeah dude

#

I'm glad you have games you enjoy!

#

Games are a super engaging art form. I'm glad you have ones that speak to you

vernal raven
#

i come into this disc to talk about cool things in the game and all i see is people talking negative about it,. sometimes people engage with the wrong intentions

viscid mural
#

Definitely happens. Such is the internet unfortunately

#

Where do you see this game going in the future?

#

What's your ideal Supervive?

vernal raven
#

fr, i stoped most socil medias cuz they are filled with ai rage bots

#

with all these doomers, i say give it a year like multiversus

viscid mural
#

Shit just made me feel bad lol

#

Now I'm officially a meme boomer. I hear about them months agter they stop being popular

vernal raven
#

my feeds was taken over by car crashes and people pewpewing eachother

#

shit got stressful

stable bobcat
# vernal raven i come into this disc to talk about cool things in the game and all i see is peo...

kinda agree, TC is in a tough position as if they impose a normal community vibe, a lot of the active talkers have to be timeout and they would be accused of "censorship". Their choice is to let the waters calm themselves, but the discord of the game, atleast now that we are 1.5 weeks after launch, talk should be about the game and criticism should be constructive, if you want to talk about the game is going to die create your own discord and doompost there

vernal raven
#

but theyd have text for the post about selling a car lol

stable bobcat
#

like, atleast now the vibe is better, but during the week of launch this discord was horrible

viscid mural
#

It's definitely calmed down a bit

hushed bough
viscid mural
#

I don't mind people saying their piece. I'd just prefer a little less "Game will die" and more "I don't like this thing and think it's bad"

vernal raven
stable bobcat
viscid mural
hushed bough
#

yeah there's bad actors on both sides

vernal raven
#

frfr

#

hulu took down the best episodes

#

if u see a season disk at a yeard sale get it cuz they the only way we will ever watch tyhe abnned episodes

viscid mural
#

Something I've learned since I joined the discord in September ish last year is that most people on the internet don't know how to converse with eachother without devolving to insults or trying to change someone's mind on something.

vernal raven
#

its not just the internet, this country (usa) has a major communication problem

hushed bough
#

true

viscid mural
#

In reality we're just here to feedback dump and make our case. If people agree they can star react to get the devs eyes on it, if they disagree they can just choose not to engage

vernal raven
#

covid being trapped in ur house did something to society to where i dont think we will ever b "normal" again

#

but this game has a lil communication problems too

#

like, the blash blah arisened i think it say?

#

hold on i asuck at sopoelling

#

nvm it was just a joke but i 4got it

#

ok amorry aside.. i like it but what i didnt liie was how they blind sided us with an almost completely diff game

#

"test oiur beta" make completely diff game

#

maybe they closed tested it

viscid mural
#

That definitely frustrated most everyone.

#

The closed tests were tiny and lasted very little game time

#

So feedback was super limited

vernal raven
#

i kinda l;ike finding items on the ground after obliterating a jar

#

yes im from alpha

#

llike 1 maybe 2 weekends out the mopnth

#

then it was like 6-9 i think in the eveningsd

viscid mural
#

I was only around since nextfest so I only have bits and pieces of what alpha was like

vernal raven
#

yea, they just polisherd it

#

like b4 that the names were very genaric..like rocket girk or gun guy

#

pokemon or any tcg players in chat?

#

well i jusat got my graded (9) back of the prismatic pikachu

hushed bough
#

I know they wanted more players to test it and I understand the reasoning it just sat wrong with me on first impression

vernal raven
#

i think they tested it inm china tbh

viscid mural
hushed bough
#

yeah

vernal raven
#

yeah

viscid mural
#

I love the idea of introducing items 1 at a time for new players to the genre. The items in League were the hardest thing for me to learn when I was new

#

Unfortunately the downside to that is leaving experienced moba players frustrated

vernal raven
#

why i stiopped most mobas

hushed bough
#

yeah, it's always difficult to please everyone, arguably impossible

viscid mural
#

I wonder how the armory could be refined to work a little better for everyone

vernal raven
#

loudest gets heard and the loudest is the most "offended"

viscid mural
#

I mean the prisma gains and shop price hotfix was already a step in the right direction imo

hushed bough
#

personally I wouldnt mind if the items didnt reset seasonally

#

if it was a one time grind and then you're playing the game that would be ok

viscid mural
hushed bough
#

and it would still accomplish the goal of incentivizing new players to keep playing

#

mm I didnt know that

#

I mean the other thing I've been thinking about is there should really be more items available in the game from killing mobs, looting, etc. like every other moba in existance

viscid mural
#

Personally I did find some joy in 1.0 from getting a new item and being excited about what I could build with it. The frustration only set in when I started getting dupes instead of filling out my 1* armory

hushed bough
#

battle royale*

#

sorry

viscid mural
hushed bough
#

to a degree, but it still feels heavily shop weighted, especially artifacts

#

I like eternal return's system where items are plentiful and you can get things very quickly, and the shop just serves as an option in case you really get fucked by rng

#

but that is an entirely different system/game tbf

viscid mural
#

I think they're hesitant to go back to items being dropped because of past experience with new player confusion

hushed bough
#

that's fair, battle royale moba is definitley historically confusing for new players

hushed bough
viscid mural
#

A big chunk of OB development was about centralizing gold and shops as the main system so I'm unsure ifnthey'd backtrack so heavily

#

I could see it going one way personally. I think they're going to implement more bad luck protections and potentially more ways to earn prisma or target specific items you want

#

But of course it's just a big guess

#

It just feels like they've committed so much to this system that they're past the point of no return for major overhauls. Especially with not having the 1.0 launch hype to carry through another resurgence of players

hushed bough
#

I guess, wish they would have tested the waters a little before full committing though

viscid mural
#

One thing's for sure though

#

I want this game to not just survive, but thrive

#

The bones are SO good

hushed bough
#

i think we all agree on that

#

loved it in beta

vernal raven
#

10 perks until 100% discovered

#

We need loudouts

#

i mean... its not wrong i am dodo

image.png
onyx locust
hushed bough
#

he's just ragebaiting

acoustic mica
#

insane rage bait

hushed bough
#

yeah, I mean he came to the thread talking about disliking the armory system and said "stop complaining about the armory system"

#

just no reason to interract with him at all

blazing mason
#

I too preferred the previous system as it was clear that you could get funny builds off p easily

#

With distinct play styles

abstract panther
#

surely these new players had a lot of opportunity of builds and were matched against players of their level.

I'm sure they enjoyed this game

image.png
hushed bough
#

yeah this is the experience I had in my first arena game

#

very cool

tawny swallow
#

I truly can't understand the logic of the dev who created Armory and why other people on the team agreed with it

safe stump
#

Gamba

#

Does make me happy

craggy vale
#

I mean reforming Armory doesn’t have to remove gamba!!! even if there was like, just a direct way to buy a copy of any item in the game for like 2.5k prisma and the boxes still existed as an option for anyone who wants them

#

that would be sooo much better tbh

tawny swallow
#

Still wont fix most issues this system creates

cunning ruin
#

That'd fix my main ossue with the armory at least. Prob not most people's issues tho

tawny swallow
quick karma
#

This game is a really hard sell to new players

#

"what do you mean this character has items for infinite mana and no CDs but I have to deal with these gray grips and boots"

#

Soon as I bring anyone in it's "wtf is this shit no amount of skill fixes that gap"

muted wagon
#

Because if Supervive has taught us anything, it’s that slamming into roadblocks and having fifteen people appear to tell you it’s a skill issue is the best approach to the new player experience

rotund pollen
#

At the end of the day, if you're better than the enemy team and have better strategy, your forge items will not be the cause of you losing your trades. Maybe in higher elos when the skill gap grows more consistent but seeing people blame that an enemy having a tier 2 or 3 item beating them (in <plat ranks) is a lame justification to getting diff'ed

cunning ruin
# rotund pollen At the end of the day, if you're better than the enemy team and have better stra...

It depends on the items honestly. Been saying it a lot but it is true, some items csn definitely be the cause of you losing while others do nothing important enough to be ones that made you lose.

Grapple t2/t3, guardian angel t3, and upercutlass t3 are some examples of what I mean. Those items become such bs at there higher tiers. While some others just get cool effects that aren't even super strong, but that is good.

undone orchid
rotund pollen
#

Thats why in a separate discussion post I made, I was saying a shared shop QoL would improve this dilemma. Players complain they are at a disadvantage cuz the lack of time into the forge and game but this should inadvertedly make players grind the game without having the excuse that they have worse items (if one person in the party has played the actual game)

#

I want my time into the game to be respected and before the forge, just like many others, I kind of got bored and gameplay grew stale cuz no growth at end of match

undone orchid
#

I mean if I play a competitive game I want to have an even playing field off the rip. If I logged into counterstrike and wasn't allowed to purchase an awp until I logged 100 hours to the game I wouldn't even play the game

#

The only reason I stick with SV is because I'm addicted and it broke my league addiction

rotund pollen
undone orchid
#

I was legend before reset but graduated and got a job. So I am significantly better than most players but for me to be at the top level again item diff is a real thing

#

Being forced to run on sight vs some characters cause they are holding vive Infuser lvl 3 while I don't even have lvl 2 grips is just lame

rotund pollen
#

Ok so they remove forge and go back to the old system? the same system that grew stale and player count dropped FAST :/

undone orchid
#

Legit if I could just allocate Prisma to items I actually wanted the system would be fine

#

But since it's RNG I'm stuck with whatever God decides to give me

rotund pollen
#

despite mixed reviews right now, I still really like the whole forge mechanic but dislike the rng element

#

yeahhh&&

undone orchid
#

Like Halo Reach armor system. Just let us spend it on what we want

#

And accrue the Prisma game by game

cunning ruin
lucid flame
#

U could keep the forge as is and just make the items all 4.5k and purchasable wherever and the daily shop is for discoubts

rotund pollen
#

Hence again as I emphasive, SHARED SHOP BETWEEN HIGHEST ITEM TIERS WILL BE SO GOOD... I am already always dropping my tier 3 longclaw to my shiv premade

lucid flame
#

And keep capsules

#

System would b saved

#

Make it so I can play what I want but have to pay more for it

#

Im willing to make that trade

cunning ruin
rotund pollen
#

r u saying keep current daily and weekly but u can buy specific items at a hugely inflated rate?

lucid flame
#

Thats the og price they used to have

#

Im for lowering it if they want

rotund pollen
#

Still feel like this would make it so that everyone have tier 3 items within a month

#

and TC is trying to keep player count retained

lucid flame
#

If you can blow 4.5k on every copy of last stand and get to tier 3 in a month

#

You deserve it

muted wagon
# rotund pollen Ok so they remove forge and go back to the old system? the same system that grew...

I don’t prefer this talking point. It takes for granted that any change to Supervive is a good one because it makes it more different from the failed game that was Open Beta

It doesn’t make any direct claims about the Armory, it could be applied to anything
“Don’t like Wukong? They had to add him, the alternative is keeping the Hunter roster of Open Beta which lost all its players”
“Don’t like the map update? They had to change it because the alternative is keeping the map of Open Beta which lost all its players”
“Don’t like the new UI? They had to change it because the alternative is keeping the UI of Open Beta which lost all its players”
And it doesn’t address the possibility that the problems that caused Open Beta to fail weren’t fixed in the update

tranquil drift
#

For me the game was not the problem in open beta. Game complexity/Balance/dogshit matchmaking/communication during first few week were the problems

hushed bough
#

New system is bleeding players too

rotund pollen
#

Yeah never said armory was the solution. I personally like it but there are those who hate it. And even without the armory, we still were losing players due to terrible retention rate since at the time there was not much value in playing besides “rank” which didnt mean much for many players who tried climbing, failed, then dipped

#

I was just making the point that many players immediately get frustrated at the game when they lose and blame the forge system setting them back. But just like open beta, players found the game hard to master and ultimately left. I have recruited roughly 10 league of legends friends and all but one quit the game cuz they felt they couldnt improve or it was too hard

hybrid scroll
#

Broken player trust hurts as well. People are bitter at this point and they will have a VERY hard time clawing back players

rotund pollen
#

Tldr: Forge or not, if a player doesn’t find significance in their matches, they won’t stay :/

hybrid scroll
#

Doesnt help they marketed the game as competitive and then kinda did a switch around with the new system breaking competitive integrity

#

EU torneys, scrims and inhouses refuse to start cus comp players refuse to play at a disadvantage

rotund pollen
#

yeah the open beta was a huge push for competitive

hybrid scroll
#

They somehow forgot competitive players will be harsh and blunt when it comes to feedback

rotund pollen
#

And what was the reason for that downfall? The numbers then also dipped drastically and it definitely didnt help that production to the game was not as strong as 1.0 with hunter updates and map changes

gleaming zodiac
#

A good change to how the armory works is if we can buy whatever your team has

#

the buying and dropping perks from teammates is annoying and if you soloq its even harder to communicate if other people have the higher level grips/relics

undone orchid
#

If this system stays that's a necessary qol

high plume
#

Why not, just have the items fully unlocked? In what capacity, in a skill based Battle Royale, does having to "unlock" the items make any sense.

This essentially creates a stopgap, that prevents new players from developing a deeper understanding of the strengths of characters during the critical early intro hours, and regardless of how many people scream "its easy" or "its only 30 hours" or w.e they want to scream, if as a person you have 1 hour a game to day, or even two, its going to take you 50% of the season to have the same capacity as the no lifers that play 4-5 hours a day.

Battle royals are meant to be for quick, fast paced, intense matches you can just jump into, and with enough skill and game knowledge, you can stand on an equal foot against any other players.

TLDR: Having "playtime" be a "skill" is stupid, pointless, and a desperate grab at attention instead of just trusting the FANTASTIC GAME you have developed to do that on its own.

quick karma
#

also get rid of the stupid prisma from capsules just roll valid items that shit is some of the most aggravating stuff I've seen in game so far.

lucid flame
#

That is NOT what the system was designed to do

prisma rampart
#

Why not just copy the equipment system from Lol, dota2, or deadlock? Aren't those games successful?

lucid flame
rotund pollen
#

I understand the flawed points in that not everyone has the patience or time to grind gear (especially with their purposed resets) but the forge was definitely their first attempt at more progression and player retention rates since just like in the 1.0 trailer, they stated that players felt like there wasnt much progress or diversity in gameplay beforehand

#

(Not saying the forge is the perfect solution but it was the first attempt)

muted wagon
rotund pollen
#

What was the tldr for forge then?

#

Their revamped vision for items?

muted wagon
#

I think the main things he brought up were theorycrafting builds and personal expression

rotund pollen
#

I still really like the theorcraft build portion

muted wagon
#

And the feeling of progression was definitely a part of it but the dev says player retention wasn’t the main motivation of this feature

rotund pollen
#

I see

#

Nonetheless, more progression and rewards feels good atleast for me when playing casual. I have grinded lots of norms before touching ranked so I am biased with the fact that I got my lvl 3 grips already

#

Legendary relics tho? I feel like I only have a shot at leveling them from weekly chests which sucks :/

quick karma
quick karma
#

I get prisma like a quarter of my capsules just a total waste of time

onyx locust
midnight token
#

Open shop would drastically improve things

tawny swallow
blazing mason
#

I'd argue most people left because of balance issues and low population.

rotund pollen
#

nice

coral swift
#

Mourning it endlessly with complaints about it being "not enough" are pointless.

tawny swallow
coral swift
#

I actually do think you have said that, but I genuinely do not care to look for it, so in the absence of evidence otherwise I will take your word for it.

#

In any case, I would agree that such a thing would be ideal if you had said so, but we are not working with an ideal world, unfortunately.

tawny swallow
tawny swallow
coral swift
#

Then what are you calling a full measure?

#

And why are they delusional?

#

Those both seem like improvements to the present system to me.

tawny swallow
#

We would have system and "improvements" to this system, which contradict the initial idea

cunning ruin
# blazing mason I'd argue most people left because of balance issues and low population.

I do agree it probably isn't why most people left. But even then i do think the system really needed improvements. I kind of wish they just changed the item system and kept powers the way they were, but this is fine ig. I understand the hate to just how much meta progression there is but I don't mind it personally, just some items simply get too damn strong.

coral swift
craggy vale
# tawny swallow We would have system and "improvements" to this system, which contradict the ini...

to be fair, buying items direct with prisma doesn’t speed up the rate at which you get items, it just allows you more agency in which items you get if you want it. If you’re a new player and don’t know what you’d like you can still gamble like present and not have the decision paralysis, but once that same player realizes that they enjoy playing Eva, for example, they can slow the rate they acquire items further in favor of guaranteeing they get items what will be useful for their favorite character. Genuinely I don’t think that goes against the spirit or purpose of the new system, it just improves QOL

#

unless you specifically think the purpose of the slowdown is to frustrate players with rolled duplicates once they’ve played a while

#

which doesn’t ring true based on the interview we were given

tawny swallow
craggy vale
# tawny swallow If I main 2 hunters - I need like 15% of the whole Armory lol. I'll just buy ite...

but if the established purpose of the armory is to encourage players to sandbox and avoid new players getting mega-overwhelmed that doesn’t actually matter, no? like a new player is going to want to experiment with a bunch of different hunters at the beginning with whatever they have, and also once they have a main they’ll potentially want to experiment with different builds! Especially at higher levels, it can even be correct to build certain items and perks based off of the terrain and hunters left in the final circles. I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you say, and even if it was I don’t think that would be against the spirit of the Armory. What if I want to pick up a new character? What if I want a callsign that’s behind a seasonal mission that requires a certain character or class of item? There are plenty of things in the game what incentive players to want more complete armories

tawny swallow
craggy vale
#

but I still don’t think that direct acquisition is a problem here

tawny swallow
stable bobcat
#

The most interesting build it unlocked for me has been the max Q ghost, and such a thing already existed in open beta, it was just a bit harder to replicate every game

tawny swallow
stable bobcat
#

Armory also made unranked games fun to play for me , as I was testing different builds and items I was unlocking, I didn't really play ranked until 5th/6th day as I was busy enough testing the items first and the different builds

tawny swallow
tawny swallow
stable bobcat
stable bobcat
# tawny swallow Was it armory tho? Probably just the amount of new items, no?

In my case it was armory mainly, I had fun unlocking them from time to time and trying.

With every item unlocked I would probably only try the champs, and refer to whatever webpage that brings me the meta items. With everything unlocked only meta need stop be discover and I am not really progressing anything on unranked games so I would just play ranked straight away after getting the meta build of my hunter

#

Also I'm not really an example of casual player and I don't feel battle passes or hunter mastery as progression at all, I do play games a lot of hours , so I normally just complete those systems without really trying it in any game, not caring about missions or battlepass exp, casuals normally try to complete them as they play less hours in average so they tend to have a tactic for completing it

craggy vale
tawny swallow
stable bobcat
coral swift
tawny swallow
#

Nah, choosing between 3 augments, basically remove "gold matters" update. Make the shops for consumables only

jaunty jewel
#

the players yearn for augments

tawny swallow
lucid flame
#

The game already has incredible build variety though

#

Even if there is a bis slot for every hunter people esp casuals dont typically end up playing for power they play for their fantasy

#

If they want a super long ranged sniper they will play Saros with longclaw for example regardless of whether thats the best for them to play

#

I rly dont think we need to reinvent the wheel

visual cloud
tawny swallow
#

The whole genre designed around rng

tawny swallow
visual cloud
#

The hunter and item desgin is coming from MOBAs and not from BR.

viscid mural
#

Even in a theoretically perfect system where there are multiple viable builds for each hunter, gamers will ALWAYS optimize the shit out of it and find the highest percentile build.

I think the current armory has more than enough variety, we just won't be seeing it at high levels. Inherent randomness in drops can make or break games and personally I don't play any other br because of the randomness they have built in.

tawny swallow
#

Problem is the game isn't 5v5 or something like that. You can't build around enemy comp. So there's 0 brain activity on what to build inside the match

viscid mural
lucid flame
#

What is exactly the goal here anyways

tawny swallow
# viscid mural I'm confused. Aren't you advocating for random drops in game? Or am I super behi...

I'm advocating for making some trade offs with item system.

Current system: If you’ve got all the items you need for your build, you’re just gonna run the same thing every match.
If you’re missing key items, you’re not adapting - you’re just annoyed and blaming RNG.

Even if the impact is small, it feels unfair. And that feeling is enough to ruin games.

My suggestion: force some variety. Find a way to stop people from using the same builds over and over. I know some players won’t like it, but if every match is a copy-paste of the last one, people will get bored.

viscid mural
#

Every day we approach Paladins' card system

#

Lol

tawny swallow
viscid mural
#

iirc you would build a small deck and got points based on objectives to spend on a card from your deck that would augment your kit. You would build decks around multiple outcomes like a good round, bad round, super eco buy, etc and have to adapt to how your game was going with your buys

#

Super interesting system

#

But super noob unfirendly

#

And definitely ostracised anyone who wasn't into deck building

#

Seems like a system you might enjoy

lucid flame
#

I played that game for a solid 3 months

#

And I did not know that was a system

viscid mural
#

Supervive could definitely do something similar lile maybe you build your shop, stocking items you want to take into the game. Then maybe depending on your gold run you'd have to adapt to several self-determined alternate build paths based on your economy that game

viscid mural
#

Haven't played it since

muted wagon
tawny swallow
#

As I said some people gonna be against it, but they don't understand what they are talking about

quick karma
tawny swallow
#

Drakes in league, side in dota/lol/chess these things make games much more interesting

tawny swallow
tawny swallow
quick karma
#

Yea that's ass

tawny swallow
#

Do you think its better:

Current system: If you’ve got all the items you need for your build, you’re just gonna run the same thing every match.
If you’re missing key items, you’re not adapting - you’re just annoyed and blaming RNG.

lucid flame
#

I kinda just want to play whats fun

#

I can adapt when I dont have items

#

But if I do I worked hard for the fantasy I want to engage with

#

Why would I want to lose that

tawny swallow
tawny swallow
lucid flame
#

But it is fun

#

I enjoy playing how I want

#

Thats the entire point of the system

quick karma
lucid flame
#

To give me freedom to play the build I want

tawny swallow
lucid flame
tawny swallow
#

Adding all this items without prisma and capsules would be what you want

lucid flame
#

No

#

I legit want the exact same system with tweaks to capsules and the option to buy items outright at a marked up price

tawny swallow
lucid flame
#

Oh wait

#

We do that

lucid flame
#

Both at the marked up price and at the discount in the daily and weekly shops

tawny swallow
lucid flame
#

To give a secondary objective to the players

fading sleet
tawny swallow
#

You guys want to have full meta build every single game when you not died early

fading sleet
#

sorry guys cant build infinity edge or attack speed boots on league because your hexchest and key didnt have it

lucid flame
#

If i had my way obv every item would be free like league but the armory is not going anywhere

tawny swallow
lucid flame
#

My method lets u keep the rng and also gives you a way to not engage with rng if you choose not to

#

Like rng? You can do daily shops and capsules

#

Hate it? Grind out for the items

fading sleet
#

like rng? go play a gacha game. competitive games should be c o n s i s t e n t.

lucid flame
#

Armory is not leaving

#

It accomplishes what the devs want it to accomplish

tawny swallow
lucid flame
#

Makes no sense to be anti armory and calling for its removal atp like its def not leaving

lucid flame
tawny swallow
lucid flame
#

Speaking of i think if you win

#

You should get a copy of the items you win with

#

Like if I win with last bite rampage

#

Part of the reward should be a copy of last bite rampage

tawny swallow
lucid flame
#

Obv this will lead to good players abusing the system but TC can handle edge cases the same way they always did

twin spruce
#

I think that if the squad mode with 4 people came back, it would be easier to solve these issues.

fading sleet
#

they cant handle edge cases the game already died once lol

lucid flame
#

Win the game

#

And stack prisma

#

If you want to engage with rng

#

You can still stack prisma and hit capsules and hit daily shops exactly like how you used to

tawny swallow
#

I don't get it, do you understand that I want to keep meta progression?

lucid flame
#

But a big complaint from a core playerbase is that they dont want to engage with rng because its a competitive game

#

Thats a fair point

tawny swallow
lucid flame
#

So I add a way that the game rewards you for skillful play by progressing your armory faster

#

And you get guaranteed copies of gear you want

tawny swallow
lucid flame
#

Thats already how it works

tawny swallow
#

And that's the problem my dude

lucid flame
#

Better armory = better chance at winning = more prisma = unlock armory faster

#

Thats a good feedback loop

#

I don't see why we need to change that

#

Its not a problem that better players get rewarded for being better

tawny swallow
#

My battery is low, gonna comeback later sorry

lucid flame
#

This helps because now if I want bloodlust boots that I havent pulled yet I have to pull up with that to get it

#

Appeases veterans and people who dont want to engage with the RNG and causals who enjoy gambling

tawny swallow
#

I just don't get it honestly

tawny swallow
tawny swallow
#

I'm gonna add this here, so people understand that devs also discussing it

Screenshot_20250809_182831_Discord.jpg Screenshot_20250809_182849_Discord.jpg
quick karma
#

Yikes

#

GL

inner ferry
quick karma
#

A tonne of players would come back if they just reverted to daggers + helmets and made that have more variety. People are always gonna blame RNG and removing even MORE player agency is just not it lmfao

#

"they're gonna blame RNG, now we're gonna punish them just for finally getting the RNG they were looking for and actually using it and enjoying the game more than a couple rounds at a time" lol

tawny swallow
quick karma
#

nah you're suggesting "we prevent players from playing the same builds"

#

god forbid timmy unlocks chrono gloves after seeking them forever gets to play them 1-3 rounds and game is like "Oh you're having fun? would be a shame if.."

tawny swallow
#

Yes, current system already does it before you unlock meta build

#

And it can take a lot of hours

tawny swallow
#

Or bad

#

Everyone can kill 5 camps of NPCs

quick karma
#

Earning it but you're saying lock it out if they use it to force them to play suboptimal. You can't earn something that's locked out.. by definition. wtf lol

#

like if they earned it via prisma, and made the money off mobs in game you're saying it's locked off if they've used it prior

#

Which is just wrong

#

Like you guys are gonna kill the game with that

tawny swallow
quick karma
#

More than it already has been

viscid mural
#

Personally I think structure with builds can be good for the game. But the structure the game has currently doesn't invite the idea of adapting your build to the situation at all. Shops and gold are too few and far between for that.

I think for players to want to adapt builds on the fly there'd need to be some external reason that encourages them to want to.

I think that system being rng would feel bad for most and lead to more "I lost because the game didn't give me what I needed" feelings. It might need to be something more in line with the pacing of the game changing and allowing the breathing room to size up your opponents or goals and adapt accordingly.

For something like that to work the items would need to be much more situational on their own and I don't know how they would go about that in a way that doesn't feel bad. There needs to be some level of balance between build specialization and general use that wouldn't err too far into the field of "I can't do anything I have the wrong build". The armory system is a complex topic to try to solve. I have very few ideas on what could be done that isn't just adding more agency to which items you unlock and when.

#

Just some of my thoughts on more rng systems

tawny swallow
#

Good thoughts

viscid mural
#

Frankly I love the current set of items

#

Bar some overperformers

tawny swallow
#

Even if you don't like my solution, I hope we all can agree on the current problem

quick karma
#

Think of it this way.. when I pitch this game to someone.
A) Okay there's an item grind but wait! It's a BR. Those items are crucial to your ability to play so unlike any other BR you're at a disadvantage - potentially a severe one if they have lv2-3 idol, songbow, squid, various relics tbh

B) Okay you swallow that bullshit pill. But oh wait! You FINALLY unlocked something that lets you even marginally build your character better and get to use it BUT you're now not allowed to use it or purchase it in game.

C) Not only do you play an uphill garbage fight, not only do you have to interact with gacha to build anything worth a damn, not ONLY do you have the same old kill/loot/buy cycle but now your loot pool is personal instead of map-wide/even playing field but NOW IT WIPES lmfao so you finally unlock everything just to get slapped in the face like we're playing Tarkov or some wannabe extraction shooter and you're expected to dedicate your life to this game above any others or just perpetually play at a disadvantage or be unable to build your character at all with poor RNG

tawny swallow
#

Imo they should just add item pools for characters/roles to prevent crazy bad rng where you have to choose between 3 supports items when you're playing Shiv for example

#

And also add pool of starter items for characters/roles

#

Or if we don't like more rng solution, make it more trade offs to how you get items inside the match

lucid flame
#

This game used to be advertised to competitive players

#

It is obv not anymore

#

Therefore the goal is to attract a slightly more casual audience

#

Casual players enjoy gambling

latent sun
#

casuals make games live.

lucid flame
#

^^^