Wukong dunking over abyss from out of vision might be the coolest mechanic I've ever witnessed in a

[swift furnace]

So we suspend logic

[pseudo slate]

Got to think of it like

Let’s say brall hits chain and dashes to apply anti heal, if you invul the dash you should avoid the anti heal yes

But if you don’t react why should you be able to cleanse it like that

[swift furnace]

Because it's an invulnerability

[pseudo slate]

Invulnerability not dispel

Not cleanse

Different things

[swift furnace]

you are not vulnerable to anything, aka no negative status effect can affect you

Otherwise, you cannot remotely make the case that you should be able to parry something with an invulnerability

[pseudo slate]

I would say they should definitely be ticking down e.g 5 sec anti heal 2sec invul, you are then anti healed for 3seconds afterwards

[swift furnace]

Why does immunity work in two different ways?

1. you use invulnerability after someone anti heals you or puts a DOT on you - after you immunity, you remember to catch fire, or remember that you can't be healed, despite being completely immune to everything
2. you can be completely immune to everything if it doesn't hit you before you are immune to it

This is cognitive dissonance
You can't hold the idea that immunity functions as an immunity in one case and not the other.

At least in WoW - immunity is clarified

[pseudo slate]

Yes and in wow it isn’t invulnerability

Divine shield is divine shield

[swift furnace]

which is why I said this earlier

[sterile bone]

This is basically my line of thinking as well.

[swift furnace]

But the anti-heal is applied by his chain

[pseudo slate]

Personally I think of it from a more game design perspective

[rigid sigil]

That's thinking in terms of realism. In terms of game language it's fairly commonplace to use the word "invulnerability" to describe a specific instance of not being able to take damage. Typically debuffs or effects are paused during these periods but persist after the period of invulnerability wears off.

I truly get where you're coming from with this but when people have been conditioned to expect one thing for so long it's not so easy to make it function differently.

[pseudo slate]

Brall slash after chain applies anti

Pretty sure brall chain and cleanses are or were bugged

[rigid sigil]

Maybe we just call it "Parry" and move on with our lives lol

[swift furnace]

the chain itself has always granted anti-heal

[pseudo slate]

Yeh

Or let it cleanse

[swift furnace]

I'm not thinking of it from realism though. I gave an example in which invulnerability functions as I said in a different game

[pseudo slate]

And tripple the cool-down of uppercutless

Since a cleanse on 10 second cd is pretty insane

[swift furnace]

this is a terrible take

it will never be picked

[pseudo slate]

Ok

So mini brall ult and bishop punch that cleanses anti and all other effects on 10 second cd is balanced?

[swift furnace]

well it doesn't cleanse antiheal and all other effects

12sec-15 sec max is balanced

[pseudo slate]

Yes and I’m saying if it did you have to increase the cool-down

As it is now I don’t really have a problem with it

Tbh tho with the state of items like grabby 3 etc maybe not 😂

[swift furnace]

"mini" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here - it's nowhere close to as good as bishop punch or brall ult

[pseudo slate]

Ofc not but the point I was trying to make is uppercutlass does a lot of different things

On of which is invul

But if it did even more you would have to increase the cd

[swift furnace]

would you have to increase the CD of celeste ult and brall ulti in that same vein?

also oath shield parry

[pseudo slate]

Celeste ult probably not brall ult probably

[swift furnace]

how? it does more now

[rigid sigil]

Celeste ult has been needing a buff for a while haha

Brall ult has always been some type of bs

So this would push it over the line I think

[pseudo slate]

As I said brall ult probably it’s what like a 25-30second cd that resets? So having the access to use it as a cleanse would probably need a cd increase however Celeste ult is a much longer cool-down and if you are using Celeste ult to cleanse you can’t use it to do Celeste ult things

Celeste uses ult to cleanse? Not even close to as scary to fight against her team

[swift furnace]

You're loading your argument

[pseudo slate]

Explain ?

You don’t want to take other factors in to account?

[swift furnace]

Not at all, nuance is important, however look at the two examples you're giving:

1. Brall using his ultimate to cleanse something is scary because you're saying his window of opportunity is 25-30 seconds and "he can reset his ultimate" (the only way for him to reset it is for him to kill someone with it, or wipe an entire squad, but everyone gets their cds back if they wipe a squad)
   versus
2. Celeste using her ultimate to cleanse something isn't scary because the window of opportunity is 60s before she can ult again, "she can't do celeste ult things"

Right, neither can brall.
Italics are where you're loading your arguments
I'm sure neither player is wanting to utilize their ultimate defensively unless they absolutely need to.
Neither of these characters are offline because their ultimate is though.

I can create idealized scenarios where Celeste cleanses herself with her ultimate, doesn't die to a dot, is able to dash out and pop crown and her team wins because of that - but that doesn't do anything for the conversation because I'm just loading a scenario

This is about consistency

if you're saying "invulnerabilities do more across the board, so we have to change stuff across the board" be consistent with it

[pseudo slate]

So me taking into account that brall ultimate resets when using rmb to kill someone’s and saying that Celeste ult is a high impact long cooldown spell is loading the argument?

Your question was “would you have to increase the CD of celeste ult and brall ulti in that same vein?”

I simply replied with reasons for why I would increase one and not the other

[swift furnace]

If he manages to knock someone with RMB sure, he has the ability to reset it.
It's loaded because you're painting scenarios where one person has the idealized version of executing reset, reset, reset - but you didn't do the same for the other character?

Where was the "if celeste wipes squad after squad, she can reset her ultimate"

[pseudo slate]

So getting one kill = wiping a squad?

[swift furnace]

If they're last?

Do you see how fruitless the scenario cherry pick is

[pseudo slate]

So if they’re last the ult resets yes

Doesn’t change the fact that brall ult 100000000% resets more often that Celeste ult

[swift furnace]

That's fine, it doesn't explain why if invulnerability was changed to make it fully immune to status affects why celeste wouldn't get hit with some type of nerf since "immunity now does more"

[pseudo slate]

I’ll rephrase then , brall ult would have to be nerfed harder than Celeste ult

And uppercutlas more than both

[swift furnace]

Nerfing uppercutlass past 12-15 seconds means it just won't get picked

[pseudo slate]

Imo it’s a very specific item anyway, it should be picked ina similar way to bungee

Now how far it would need to be nerfed I don’t know, I just threw out a number

[swift furnace]

Stasis is on a 30 second CD, and if you take damage whilst in stasis you can reduce the CD a further 15 seconds

[pseudo slate]

Status has many down sides

Can’t move

Can’t use over abyss

[swift furnace]

you can use it over abyss

[pseudo slate]

From what I’ve seen you just fall no?

Could be wrong

[swift furnace]

you do fall, but you can press it again to get out of it

you have celeste ult iframe that's cancleable

[pseudo slate]

And it’s on what 15second cd at lowest you said?

[swift furnace]

yeah

shorter if you have the relic accelerator perk

[pseudo slate]

Applies too all relics so better to not take that into account imo

[swift furnace]

well no, that's not how a 9% calculation works

9% of 10 is lower than 9% of 30

you benefit more from the perk if you have higher cooldowns

[pseudo slate]

Does said 9% calculation apply to the 15 seconds from the passive?

[swift furnace]

no it applies to the full 30

which is better

[pseudo slate]

So the minimum cool-down of status is 12.3 seconds

[swift furnace]

sure

minimum for cutlass is 9.1

[pseudo slate]

Yeh

All status does is give you invul

What does uppercutlas do

[swift furnace]

for how long though

2.5 seconds

[pseudo slate]

2.5 seconds sure yeh Thats a lot longer

However

What does uppercutlas do

Stun

10% increase dmg

And you can use it quicker than you can cancel status

Statis*

[swift furnace]

that's not true

you're locked into stasis for as long as you are uppercutlass before you can cancel it

wait that's not even accurate

you can almost instantly cancel it

I just did it

also stasis gives an aoe knockback

so you have omnidirectional self peel

[pseudo slate]

Not to big of a difference but you can dash while using cutlas but not status

[swift furnace]

dashes get cancelled by the punch you do with cutlass

[pseudo slate]

Take zeph dash

You can charge it while in cutlas

[swift furnace]

sure, true

use cases are small

[pseudo slate]

Not saying Thats a big thing

But if you going on about comparing items it matters abit

Also 10% dmg increase?

Thats Jins rmb max

But for longer

[swift furnace]

jin also has access to cutlass

[pseudo slate]

Not my point

[swift furnace]

sword of the seven suns is 10% more dmg on that as a relic, permanently

[pseudo slate]

My point being a lvl 4 spell is alloyed that power

Alloted*

[swift furnace]

how do you feel about sword of the seven suns then?

thats double jin rmb 4

[pseudo slate]

lol broken as fuck

Same for a lot of items

A lot of the 3* items are way to strong imo

Take diadem for example

Why am I as a crysta player allowed to ult every 1 1/2 spell rotations

Or grabby 3

Why can void become brall levels of mobile

[swift furnace]

I mean it's conditional

but sure

grabby 3 is too much

[pseudo slate]

Conditional yes

But multiple characters can abuse a lot of the 3* items

[swift furnace]

i agree

[pseudo slate]

Anyway it’s 5am and I gotta sleep, my opinion is invul shouldn’t cleanse and they should make that clear in the description if it does cleanse some cds should be increased

Also fuck wukong

[swift furnace]

Fair, I think if people think immunity means you can't have something applied to you during immunity, it doesn't make any sense to say that invul shouldn't cleanse, because if you recognize it's a state of invulnerability, you shouldn't re-enter into a weakened state.

Then again, TCG need to clarify what they mean by invulnerability because as i said before this topic is mute without what they decide

good chat

[pseudo slate]

Yeh I understand your opinion on it, it’s just a difference in how we interpret invulnerability (reason why they should clarify on the text)

Let’s hope they actually read some of this 😂

[jade lagoon]

YEP YEP YEP YEP YEP (esp cuz it gets abused by people waiting outside and lining up shots, which feels even worse when a healer cant heal you or when an enemy firefox can simply pre-tag you even tho you are in a giant invuln iceblock......)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

aaaa i will kiss yall, yes yes yes

[sterile bone]

Waiting for the day iframs/invulnerabilities don't clense hudson ult. It'd be a dream.

I remember when I used to think it was a bug, I'm like 90% sure it's intended now

[swift furnace]

I agree with this for an immunity (to damage) but unfortunately an iframe covers everything and I think it should behave this way

[sterile bone]

I find it to be dumb when I ult a wukong then he presses ult fucking after. I'll never find it not dumb tbh. If he used it to not even get hit sure, nj. But he used it fucking after he was hit, and it's so infuriating

[swift furnace]

guess you have to play a different win con

no huddy ult on wukong unless he ults first

[sterile bone]

Wukong just makes my ult literally useless. Can't even try to use my ult when he's there. Not even just on him, on his teammates too. Cus rmb just says "no ult for you" and hudsin does not dodge that especially since he has to use dash to actually get the kill noe since they fucling nerfed the yank

[tawdry lion]

Yeah ultimg wukong is just never going to be an option.

[swift furnace]

Ye I just tested it in practice and that deffo feels bad, but if other parts of his kit were strong he might be able to contend with wukong

I think invulnerabilities should function as a cure-all

If there was another class of immune then I would say that should just block damage and then negative effects like root/dots/status effects should persist

So Hudson ult could persist through an immunity but not an invulnerability

[sterile bone]

It's hard cus his ult is his main kill tool. He has other ways but versus good players they just aren't too good.

[swift furnace]

Not sure what Hudson is lacking since I don't play him but I hear you

Wukong is generally pretty bad character design imo, way too slippery

[sterile bone]

He needs better way to lock people down and some better mobility that he could actually use. And honestly he might need a little more dmg to his rmb, which dmg buffs to him are always scary, his dmg is just pretty bad rn.

[swift furnace]

Would he be better with another dash given back?

[sterile bone]

Another dash will just be toxic on him no matter what imo. And it wouldn't even add to the stuff that makes hudson fun to me.
I'm strongly against giving him another dash.

[swift furnace]

Fair

I know it's not his class fantasy but the relic shift spam was the most fun I've had in this game, it was so profoundly silly

[sterile bone]

It was pretty fun. It just took away from his kit overall. If hudson is gonna be good I don't want him to be good like that lol

[swift furnace]

Mobile disruptor hudson

Rip

Gone but not forgotten

[sterile bone]

It was fun while it lasted ig.

I am pretty hopeful for some hudson buffs and I'm reallt praying they don't just give him random number buffs. It's very wasy to overtune his numbers

[jade lagoon]

i wish it gave back wires that should land but fell into the abyss and/or make wires extend over the abyss (ie; when part of it is on land, idt it should be air-placeable since that would make abyss feel even worse).

[cosmic yew]

@chilly parrot Design choice question: Is there a specific reason that mercurys dash requires backwards targetting?

[chilly parrot]

I don't know the answer to that

[cosmic yew]

As a player i think she would feel much better if it didnt work this way and worked like other dashes with the WASD input

theres many situations where i need to react quickly and end up somewhere i dont want to be because of reverse input, if dash used normal WASD directional input it would feel much more healthy and you could land lmbs during it aswell

just something i wanted to mention, not sure if others feel this way aswell

on shrike it fits her kit because of the lmb downtime and projectile it shoots, but with mercury its felt awkward

[lethal vault]

It kinda makes sense with targeting the impulse on enemies and the LMB movement tech combo with it

[cosmic yew]

yea but u can still do this with WASD input

your mouse can be in the same place and the dash will work like every other dash in the game

imo

it changes nothing if its switched to WASD except quality of life

[lethal vault]

Maybe I'm not understanding what the WASD input behavior is with it

[chilly parrot]

I see what you mean, you want it to use WASD input for the direction first, then use cursor position if you aren't using WASD, but right now it just uses cursor only

[cosmic yew]

right now if you press dash, it always gos to the opposite direction of your cursor, i would like it to work the same way other dashes do and utilize the WASD direction instead of cursor, the blast could still be sent in the cursor direction and the mobility can still be used

[cosmic yew]

correct, i love her btw very fun to play

the dash part of her kit just feels very awkward

[chilly parrot]

you know, honestly I don't think we've ever considered that for reversed dashes. I'll ask the design folks what they think

[cosmic yew]

cool, ty!

[toxic helm]

Hello everyone,

Is there a good reason why Carbine's second upgrade of his shift only gives -0,5s cooldown reduction instead of 1s like the first upgrade? Generally speaking regarding his shift, the upgrades don't feel like they exist. Barely existing. It would be nice if the developers could take a look at his shift and tweak some things. Especially the Ground Dash. I believe the Ground Dash should not have the same cooldown as the big air Jetpack Dash, even considering it gets reduced by 1s for every LMB hit, which is his passive.

Personal suggestion: I believe reducing the flat cooldown of the ground dash would improve his map mobility a bit too much. I would say increasing his passive LMB hit cooldown refund would be more beneficial, especially rewarding the better Carbine players where I believe where he struggles the most (No statistical data to back up on this one, just gut feelings). So, 1s >>> 2s Ground Dash cooldown refund per LMB hit. As a Carbine Enjoyer I would like to utilize his jetpack a bit more often in fights which is a main aspect of his design and his battle fantasy. And obviously, at least from my perspective, the second upgrade should give at least the same amount of cooldown reduction as the first one.

Overall I feel like Carbine needs some attention now, especially his Ground Dash and Q (It doesn't feel impactful enough given the high cooldown it has)

I hope for some love for Carbine in the next few patches 🤞

[crystal stirrup]

as a beebo player it make me laugh "most precise" is a bit much

[graceful vine]

This would be super helpful for people. Any time someone switches to Shrike or Mercury they invariably dash INTO The enemy team instead of away because it seems to completely ignore their WASD/Cursor settings and only ever go opposite of aim so they'll turn to dash away and immediately fling themselves backwards into the enemy lol

[brittle vapor]

I feel like changing this throws off the ability.. they are an impulse tied to the weapon. If they were aimable with WASD it would throw me off as it wouldn't make sense.. you should to aim the gun to have it throw you. the opposite direction

[toxic helm]

Yea sounds a bit too formal for a discord message, just wanted to convey the sad state of Carbine especially his Ground Dash. Many Carbine players would love to see some buffs for him.

[cosmic yew]

Many such cases for many spells unfortunately

i remember back in december we had a thread in every hunter chat where we got to speak about which lvl 4 (then lvl 3) upgrades feel bad, im curious what happend to that

i think myth lvl 4 shift has like a 1% pickrate if even

would be such a cool patch if characters receive some new lvl 4s

[jade lagoon]

i wish they talked with otp/mains more and asked for our input, weekend-ly chat/input that delivers something on monday

[graceful vine]

whole community wishes they'd engage more and be a little more agile with balance updates

[toxic helm]

Yea completely agreed, worst example of lvl 4 is probably Saros Q (Nova Orb), normal Q hit on enemies hits his passive which gives him huge mana regeneration (fills up the whole mana bar over like 2s) BUT BUT the Orb IV upgrade does it instantly which has ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE in every single scenario imagineable. Some IV abilities are really really badly thought-out, unfortunately.

If you have 0 mana and hit a Q, by the time you charged your RMB to full and need mana to shoot it, you would have double the amount of mana needed for the shot. And his RMB is the only ability that consumes mana. Just pointing out for people who havent played saros yet

[rigid sigil]

I would imagine it's in part to make the laser less oppressive. Being able to dash forward with it would be disgustingly strong

wait nvm I just read the rest of the convo if I'm understanding correctly you're not asking to dash forward, but to be able to use wasd to dictate the dash direction over the cursor

[cosmic yew]

Last 2-3 patches have been great, im not gonna complain

only problematic thing to me are the que restrictions rn

[cosmic yew]

you know what, this is honestly a good call

but they could keep it specifically for ult that u can only dash backwards

i just reallllllyyyyy want WASD (not reversed) dash on mercury :((

she would be my fav character to play

[cosmic yew]

correct

[rigid sigil]

I think there's definitely a world where we can wasd the main dash and just have a clamp on the aim for wasd dash during ult

best of both worlds

[cosmic yew]

that would be perfection 🥺

[jade lagoon]

yes 100%

[rigid sigil]

I'm being genuine when I say this: The update game from TC since 1.0 dropped has been a significant step up from open beta. Though not perfect by any measure you guys are getting more right than you are wrong and are directly addressing the biggest pain points piece by piece

The game has been improving very quickly and I'm excited to see how next patch shakes things up further.

[graceful vine]

Once the Barony or gunfire reborn DLC drops I'll probably drop this game for a couple months / until the next season

See how they handle that mess

[wary stirrup]

What mess?

[cosmic yew]

Only thing i can think of is the que restriction dilemma 🤷‍♂️

[wary stirrup]

Exactly

[cosmic yew]

We do have ALLOT of veterans quitting currently, which is bad

[wary stirrup]

Like, that, and the arena problem

[cosmic yew]

but the game itself is on a very good path outside of that

[wary stirrup]

But that's whatever

[cosmic yew]

yea arena is....

contract killer perk is a perk thats for sure

hope everyone gets same money per round in the future

it weirdly feels like counter-strike rn

"guys play eco round we buy relics next" lmfao

[cosmic shell]

We still have the abyss, skysharks, armory, poor balance

[wary stirrup]

Tbh, none of those 4 are game ending

There goes Paqt, not understanding how stuff works

[sterile bone]

Poor balancing I'd say is. But the other stuff i would agree with you

[granite bear]

Same problem on arena occured year ago and was hotfixed in matter of hours

just saying to make it fair..

[fathom cosmos]

the bad thing is it isnt like this. u eco in cs to buy next round, in this game ur just perma behind lol

ppl have full build round 2 or 3 sometimes and u are just tryna get ur gear by the 4th round

[sterile bone]

Maybe just let everyone use 3 stars. Idk i don't play arena anymore

[jade lagoon]

yep :))

have non armory games to balance hunters

and max armory games to balance items, after

ez game fix

[fathom cosmos]

imo it should scale to highest stars of the lobby. so if its noobs then they get like 1 stars across the board or 2 stars.

and everyone shld have same money regardless of kills wins or losses.

and also if they want to keep giving more money each round at least let us start with 1k

[spice chasm]

@chilly parrot Im sorry for @ you again out of context. Is this beebo fast car tech intended? Beebo throws hes bomb and grapples to it and for some reason this generates an insane momentum and it carries over to the car resulting in the fast car tech that was previously removed? The clip below illustrates it (though its not the best clip):
https://www.twitch.tv/aidan_by/clip/SmilingGleamingBearBudBlast-X8srN6Tanr4VPN1s

[chilly parrot]

Not intended

[cosmic yew]

Day 182 of scrims players abusing bugs 🛌

[silk rover]

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-cat-insane-cat-help-my-cat-is-insane-help-my-cat-cat-gif-21688581

[tawdry lion]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-gif-22341545

[keen ferry]

na has asked devs before as well

[sterile bone]

Day 100(?) of beebo having some bs "tech".

[spice chasm]

So I stopped playing the game for weeks because its shit atm and I come back to dunks being not dunks anymore and yet im still getting dunked from full hp?

Can anyone care to explain how the fk this is in the game?
https://medal.tv/games/supervive/clips/kZYQRkN6P_4yuH5wd?invite=cr-MSxMUXMsMzUyMDM2NzE5&v=2

[arctic citrus]

not 100% on this but i'm pretty sure the new dunk check happens AFTER the ability damage, so you got put under the threshold by the slam and then it checked that you were within dunk range and killed you

really awesome cause wukong slam does like 900 damage and tetra slam also does 900 and-

[spice chasm]

Whoever coded that

Im just gonna be quiet i think 👍

[arctic citrus]

understandable have a nice day

[sterile bone]

Every single character other thwn kp csn dunk from full with literally no items(i think jin might actually need some items, I don't remember)

Like the dunk nerfs tbh just made the problem worse. Most still dunk from full, and now eplats are 3x expensive.
Is what it is 😞

[acoustic grove]

Jin without items has the dps of a ranged minion

[sterile bone]

I swear I've seen him do it so idk. But Jin still dunks pretty well and now is better over land. I find it hard to truly call the dunk nwrf a nerf to him even if it probably is.

[spice chasm]

Ah so they made a change to address a problem only to make the problem more problematic 👍

[maiden spindle]

Thats definitely not true. I agree they should lower the threshold to dunk but dunks are objectively less common now.

Id love to see something g closer to 50 percent hp to dunk

If youre getting 1 shot dunked all the time now at full its a skill issue. Hit space or dash

[sterile bone]

I feel like that is only the case cus people go for them less.

Jin is basically only being played by illusion na. And brall i barely ever see go for a dunk. And tetra and wu still do their thing

[maiden spindle]

Its still a strong mechanic if its recoverable. But yes it changes the freeness of it. People go for it less because you dont get the kill when it lands now.

[sterile bone]

It's just not worth risking it not killing for most hunters now. Jin and wu still get out for free if they go for dunks. And the others are really punished if they misjudged the threshold.

Legit the only dunk I think I've personally survived is kp. I don't remember ever surviving others

[maiden spindle]

Im sorry but you are doing something wrong then. I have survived dunks from ever hunter that can dunk

[sterile bone]

I kind of give it legit a few weeks before dunks become a problem again.

[maiden spindle]

I agree it wasn't far enough

[sterile bone]

Legit, 5 or so hours ago i got dunked by a wukong no items as hudson. So... he wasn't even on my screen and there wasn't even a sound until right befire it slammed

[maiden spindle]

Its an easy tweak to make but the change was very much in the right direction. Wu is still a problem with or without his dunks.

[brittle vapor]

wukongs seems much stronger than others

[sterile bone]

That was half that guys health 😨

[maiden spindle]

It looks like he might have been able to recover there. It still requires an input to not die

[brittle vapor]

to be fair in this clip i hit sweet spot 3rd lmb right before

[maiden spindle]

Hard to tell for sure on my phone

[sterile bone]

The stun goes until he dies so no

[brittle vapor]

no way he recovers.. even if he just gets jumpoed by me immediately anyways.. Just wukongs dunk seems so much faster than others

[sterile bone]

I atill do honestly think once people learn the threshold more dunks will be back in full force. Cus all can still dunk from full other than kp.
It's just delaying it imo.

We'll have to see but I just don't think it'll last.

[spice chasm]

Because he does too much damage 👍

[astral cobalt]

the dunk did more than 30% of ur hp

so it still dunks

smile

[cosmic yew]

the guys healthbar is basically at 70% and wukong does damage so yea this is obv a full dunk?

dunks still dunk, its just they dont do it from 90-100% hp

idk why people think "dunks are fully removed"

that would be unhealthy for melee characters

wukong is the only problematic dunker rn

maybe uve been 90% -> 0% by tetra but she was most likely fully building around that and sacrificing grappling hook etc for more damage

wukong on the other hand has such insane base mobility that he can just go full dps, slam you from 85-90% hp and ur dead without him losing any value like tetra does from not taking squid

easiest fix is to just tone down wukong rmb damage and the problem kinda solves itself

[sterile bone]

Tetra has literally dunked me from full health with no items. Like I wish I was joking. Saying she was "building around it" is just such a lie.
And i see that happen all the fucking rime on streams to. Wu and tetra both don't really have to build to do full dunks, they just do.

[cosmic yew]

The thing is, im a tetra player and people i dunk that are above 90% hp dont die

so maybe this happend once but most likely that tetra had exotic perks to increase her damage + damage items

[sterile bone]

If it's literally happening within the first 5 minutes of a game and there were no exotic perks nearby that just isn't the case.

I've been dunked by other hunters quite often and even at higher hp thresholds I just die. Regardless of what they were building.

Yes, it's early game because that's the only time you'll really see someone no items. What you said is just wrong from what I've experienced and seen countless times.

And the hunter I play is more tanky so you'd expect me to be living more often. But vs wu or tetra I've literally never survived their dunks.

[sterile bone]

It rewlly depends on the dunk tbh.

Like kp can rarely dunk, while wu and tetra are still one shotting often, since eplats cost more they technically got stronger.Jin can also very easily build to one shot but needs to do decent dmg if he doesn't build for it(I think dagger + charge stab is enough dmg) but he can also fight over land more reliably so it feels like he didn't get weaker or stronger, his mobility is also a good amount lower which imo would be the main reason his dunk isn't much of a problem anymore. Brall has a hard time dunking cus over abyss he can't do good dmg overall with his knockback, but he still does brall things.

I wouldn't say it necessarily made it worse but I wouldn't say it helped much either tbh.
I despise tetra and wukong so fucking much rn, and they were least effected by this change :(

[turbid saddle]

Remove dunking until coming up with a non-toxic solution (aka not oneshoting literally 100% hp targets) to the whole abyssfight-melee-spike-topic. Those half baked solutions just making everything worse.

[tawdry lion]

every hunter needs to have a sweetspot guaranteed dunk to play for

but the sweetspot is really small

[cosmic yew]

no they arent

wtf is up with the community lately

this dunking change was very good for the game, now as a followup wukong dunk damage needs to be tuned down so it actually affects him

and KP not getting a guaranteed kill off of hook -> dunk is healthy

u can still insta tap their glider with 1 charged lmb straight after

[stoic lark]

No lol
Hitboxes are already small and some attacks are massive

This wouldnt add skill, this is luck

Unless you mean the abilities need to have a sweetspot
In which case... ehh?
I dont think every hero needs a 100% dunk

Being melee is a genuine downside, and the melee characters in this game have been given a LOT of compensation to make up for that, maybe too much
I dont think every melee character needs a dunk with 20 dashes

Generally "everyone should have X" doesnt sit well with me

[stoic lark]

This i agree with tho
I didnt play beta, so i cant talk abt that, but the updates seem genuinely good
Instakills are not healthy, and a lot of the time it doesnt even feel skilled imo
As a player i personally prefer longer TTK with drawn out fights and constant decision making
Nerfing these instakills over abyss feels good to me, i dont find it fun or skillfull when i accidentally tap my glider on the wrong millisecond and instadie for it/lose 90% of my glider fuel

[cosmic yew]

https://www.twitch.tv/synthdnb/clip/CredulousCulturedDugongLitty-rbnlt1W2hryOiMmm

@sterile bone

[distant idol]

ill see if i can find clips but ive definitely been dunked from like 95% hp by wu which i dont think was their intended goal with this change. i think dunks are annoying but i dont really care either way. my main concern is making the optics around being dunked more intuitive for new players. Telling me theres an hp threshold of 70% for being dunked but its actually 95% is frustrating

i think since patch i have been "not-dunked" 1-2 times which does not seem like the goal they set out to achieve

[cosmic yew]

wukong is def the most concerning, if he itemizes correctly he can still full slam u

[distant idol]

i think in a team game sending you to the bottom of the abyss is still a major benefit and if they're gliding they get dunked spiked anyway like every other character

so personally id prefer damage calcs to happen after instead of before

[cosmic yew]

i kinda like that u can itemize around it

wukong is just obnoxious

but if tetra gos full damage to slam people more reliably, respect

shes missing out on allot of utility

[stoic lark]

Tbh if wuking rmb sweetspot was just a stun and NOT a dunk, i wouldnt mind

Stuns act like semi-dunks anyway

[olive bison]

This takes me like 4 rewatches to even find out what happend don't tell me this is balanced

I thought the ghost spiked me somehow without me using my glider but nope Wukong

[tawdry lion]

https://tenor.com/view/anya-spy-x-family-anya-spy-x-family-gif-25753949

[bleak garden]

a wukong momemnt...

[swift furnace]

Had to watch that back and literally enhance like I'm in NCIS to see wtf happened

[tawdry lion]

I think ur blind and Wu Kong visual indicator should just be neon Greene like this everyone can see that visual sign TO GO run run omg

[proper umbra]

I think I mentioned this in the wukong chat after the dunk changes

He can dunk with lockdown by just keeping you stunned longer

I guess the interaction with the perk was overlooked

I’ve just been building sword of seven suns on him and dunking ppl for kills over the abyss with it

[jade lagoon]

🙂 🥲

[turbid copper]

the thing is it's not that "the threshold isn't 70% it's actually 90%" or whatever, the check whether you get dunked or not happens AFTER the wukong does the initial damage that's supposed to dunk you, so if you're at 95% HP and he does 25% of your HP as damage then you would get dunked.

This is literally how they intended the mechanic to work as they stated this in the patch when they added it.

now whether I think it's a good idea to basically give almost technically "100-0" dunks to only some specific hunters, that's a different thing

[lofty maple]

Only 2 months more for a fix 🤷

[vapid zinc]

Farsight not triggering on saros rmb is inteended

?

[shy hinge]

glad his turn rate got restricted its very helpful

[rigid sigil]

Just some gool 'ol fashioned desync

[keen ferry]

bro died to the sonic boom

[sterile bone]

Nice hotbox bro

[bold halo]

Oh no, is that how it works now? God they didn't change a thing.

[bold halo]

Serious question do these wukong nerfs actually do anything to address wukongs off screen dunks?

[vapid zinc]

for how long is this gonna be disabled

[olive bison]

Forever hopefully

[frigid rapids]

honestly I think the reduced dash speed should
be useful in reducing the range

it’ll still be like

the strongest area denial in the game

but at least you can get out of the area now

wait for the slam, and re-engage

[bold halo]

Hopefully. Overall all nerfs to wukong are good nerfs for the game. But doesn't feel like TC ever address the issue. But I guess off screen dunks are A.O.K with them still

[frigid rapids]

I definitely won’t believe it until I see it, but making wu universally visible when on his pole in combination with the dash change makes me tenuously optimistic !!!

[clear saddle]

I dont think ur gonna get hit by off screen dunks

[bold halo]

"Between perch and slam" i dont like that wording. Sounds like "we gave you a heads up... .5 second of a heads up!"

[arctic citrus]

What was it, 16-33% dash speed decrease when using rmb?

Its not a lot but its not nothing...

Here's to hoping you can actually dodge him by dashing backwards now

[cosmic yew]

@chilly parrot intentional that resonating idol is still disabled?

since it was named in the patchnotes with bugfixes etc i assumed it would be reenabled

[brittle vapor]

NERF WUKONG

[sterile bone]

Where my hudson item 😞

[vapid zinc]

bro how many weeks without fcking resonating idol

its actually crazy

is there a bug with it or smth

?

[chilly parrot]

intentional

probably should've left the bugfixes out of the patchnotes until it was planned to be reenabled, that's my mistake, I'm just excited to post about bugfixes

[cosmic yew]

gotcha, yea that confused me a bit but ty for clarifying

i miss it :((

[vapid zinc]

why is it disabled?

[sterile bone]

D: no hudsin idol

[cosmic yew]

would hudson idol even still work? I think it was only infinite because of chronogauge no?

i miss this item it was so fun on ghost / elluna 🙁

[sterile bone]

He didn't need chrono. It was due to how it applied which let him get a 105% dash reset. Now it should I think only be 97% or so, still a lot but not infinite.

[delicate bronze]

@chilly parrot

was timestaff nerfed or no

there is nothing in patch notes about it

[granite bear]

thats old no

[delicate bronze]

then why they didnt fix that

[stoic lark]

tbh, current patch really cuts out rmb maxing as a good wukong build
from levels 1-3, you get almost nothing out of leveling rmb besides some damage

cd doesnt go down per level, scaling doesnt change, and the base damage increase per level got reduced

i was already not doing rmb max cause i prefer q build(esp after last patch) but now im legjt gonna max rmb last
which does objectively reduce the number of off-screen slams
both because less people will be playing RMB focused builds, and because the rmb cd is now higher

plus the dash nerf when perched and the visibility thing
you cant get hit by an off screen dunk if hes literally on screen

[vapid zinc]

@chilly parrot is timesatff 19% cdr a nerf or a bug??

sry for ping btw

[drifting furnace]

was a nerf 2 weeks ago

or you mean 3* is showing 19%

[vapid zinc]

yes

i mean 3* beign 19%

in game aswell btw

[drifting furnace]

phenomenal even more wukong nerfs

really cool

[jade lagoon]

?

[delicate bronze]

?

[jade lagoon]

[lethal vault]

The math seems right from how it was explained in the patch notes.

It does seem like it at least doesn’t warrant a 1500g cost anymore though. That’s 1.5K gold and is 1% worse than a grey open beta tech blade if the wiki is correct.

OB didn’t have the flat CDR scalers or as many slots to fill-out with CDR items though, so the peak effective CDR is still significantly higher in 1.0.

[delicate bronze]

so

it doesnt make any sense

item gives you 30%

but because of some weird formula

u get 20% ????

[silk rover]

cuz ability haste isnt the same as CDR

like in league im pretty sure once you get 100 abilty haste you get 50% cdr

now im not sure if the system is the same as leagues but the system league does is for sure the best

[delicate bronze]

then change it to unit stat instead of %?

anyways

rever these changes cuz no one will buy timestaff lmao

[lethal vault]

Could also make it cheaper/demote it to a lower tier as a different kind of option.

[sterile bone]

Crysta still will(probably)🙂 she has crush on timestaff

[lethal vault]

Don’t think so, songbow is almost strictly better now tbh.

[delicate bronze]

true

and im saying this as huge songbow hater on crysta

[sterile bone]

🙁 she has crush on songbow now

[delicate bronze]

when dev will finally respond?

in patch notes it say 20%

but in game its 33%

[lethal vault]

Thought it behaved the same, but I just checked, they actually are functionally different. Combining equal increments of AH in league adds to your cast frequency the same amount every time, whereas in SV combining equal sources of cdr multiplies the frequency by the same amount every time.

So in lol if you had 3 sources of 100AH, aka “50% CDR” items for SV, you would have 3x the base cast frequency. While in SV with 3 50% CDR items you’d have 222 = 8x the base cast frequency.

[vapid zinc]

glider bug happens way more now

like u not beign able to glide

and its starting to pmo

[cosmic agate]

not like kingping wasn't doing it before 1.0 with blinkstone or just a dash

[keen ferry]

me when I ragebait

[delicate bronze]

what

[keen star]

Eva orbs still getting stuck in walls 💔

[delicate bronze]

I will stuck you in wall

https://tenor.com/view/gato-enojado-insano-waza-gif-27541362

[keen ferry]

ability haste not 1:1 with actual ability reduction

ui tells u item effective haste

so u can make informed choice on its actual value

[delicate bronze]

bro before it wasnt like that

[keen ferry]

stacking haste gives diminishing returns

[delicate bronze]

it said 29%

and u got 19%

this patch u getting 19% which is huge difference (literally 1/3 less)

and they didnt listed it anywhere

[keen ferry]

if u only build isochron it's around 29

before they didn't tell u if it was less than 29

if u stacked double haste gloves or smthn

It was prob like 25 or smthn I didn't calc it

but it definitely was diminishing

[delicate bronze]

I thought they nerfed diminishing return

even more

but now even if u equip

staff alone

its 19%

[keen ferry]

hrm

I was mentally referencing the calcs Jay did in crysta chat

[delicate bronze]

so TC doesnt know their own math?

cuz in 1.02

chrono + timestaff was 36% ability haste

now same combo

is 25%

[keen ferry]

in .02

[delicate bronze]

its like 33% difference

and they said "its roughly 20%"

but anyway it doesnt make sense

cuz even in previous patch if u get 1 cdr item

u was getting full value of it

so even with worse base exponent

it shouldnt matter

now for some reason every ability haste item got nerfed

[keen ferry]

I did the math too

isochron was just 29 w old scaling

[delicate bronze]

so its 33% reduction not 20% xddddddddddd

[keen ferry]

dentge I don't want to calc old grips but u might be right

[delicate bronze]

like why koalifier is not here

im so confused about this change

and I want explanation from dev

[sleek path]

Koalifier we want a explanation about this too! https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1410544844375461890

[lethal vault]

The multiplier on cast frequency was always the same though.

So for isochrons at 29% CDR it’s a multiplier of about 1.4 to cast frequency and would always be a 1.4 multiplier to cast frequency no matter how much CDR you already had.

The total CDR number goes down less but the output stays the same. So there’s not really diminishing returns.

If the CDR number went down by the flat amount then you’d have accelerating returns, think what 50% CDR + 50% CDR would look like, having both would literally be infinitely better than having just one.

[delicate bronze]

I guess dev is on vacations

lmaooo