#Competitive stats of the day.

2438 messages · Page 3 of 3 (latest)

ocean drum
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How fun was it without wu/tetra? Maybe sucked for you cus you like wu, but was prob nice for everyone else.

brisk rune
woven swift
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more than 20% of the cast unplayble

narrow osprey
high saddle
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Is it only EU at the moment?

hushed vortex
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its literally on website cuh

hushed vortex
high saddle
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Ah ok

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Cool

hushed vortex
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If I get contacted to add NA to it then we'll see but I doubt I'd do it for free considering it took a while and I'm not really part of NA community.

soft mulch
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elluna gos brrrrrrr

devout flower
hushed vortex
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Yea maybe that'll hopefully change with future patches

tiny cosmos
ocean drum
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Balance no exist rn istg

woven swift
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probs never will if their approach to balance is what it has been so far

ocean drum
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They focusing on low elo so much higher elo is just a shit show. If they continue to focus on lower elo this much balance will never exist.

soft mulch
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it usually gos from wukong / tetra to oath / kp and then last 2 games Elluna is pretty BIS

ocean drum
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I don't like how bans are needed honestly. Overall I'm against bans unless the meta is dominated by legit just 3 characters so much to where the others just are not playable, so yea like rn.

candid warren
ocean drum
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Afaik na is just doing wu ban perma and no other bans.

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Na is legit never getting a lobby tho

high saddle
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I get lobbies

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I don't do scrims but I don't have bad queue timez

ocean drum
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I meant specifically scrim lobbies.

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We barely get more than 3 real submissions these days

high saddle
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Fair

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Where do you see those

ocean drum
minor mason
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However, I was forced to play carbine and wukong is so much more fun 😭

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I really hope this week's patch will decrease wukong popularity so I can play my boy for longer then 2 games

minor mason
minor mason
minor mason
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And you have 3 options
1.Do nothing and let scrims slowly dke
2.ban wukong and fk the wukong players (it was tried)
3.or make it more fair and introduce a ban system, that way no one is cucked

minor mason
hushed vortex
soft mulch
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not everyones gonna refresh the website

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speaking of the website

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should prob get a mod to pin it

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@ornate niche hi sry for the ping, any pinners?

ornate niche
hushed vortex
ocean drum
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I legit feel like this might be one of the strongest states oath has been in in a while.
He truly will always be op.

minor mason
ocean drum
woven swift
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like Braum from league

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either that or it should just straight up not block stuff like kp hook, melee abilities etc

vagrant tiger
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main thing if u wanna nerf oath is to make it so his shield has no collision

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so you can walk past it

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imo

ocean drum
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That would make him feel less bad to play against cus getting wall trapped by oath shield feels so bad. Then parry could make it so you cannot walk through it to avoid some dumb scenarios.

I don't think that would be enough tbh but would be a good place to start

woven swift
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is why we have such a shit meta with 0 cds

vagrant tiger
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i dont even understand what u mean

ocean drum
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Cdr is more broken than ever rn, would assume that is what they mean.

woven swift
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maybe something about oath has to be aids

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has been freelo and braindead for far too long

soft mulch
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im not gonna lie this entire patch almost is on point

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they said this was targetted in large parts to high elo and i think they hit the mark

ocean drum
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Kind of sad they didn't fix hudson's wires tho ngl. But whatever at this point

cyan thicket
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might just be me who's bad, but do the dunking changes particularly do a lot? if damage is calculated before the missing health calc, don't you just die from dunking abilties in most scenarios regardless, the primary scenario i see this working is you managed to stomp the rest of the team to such a point you are all 100% health

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i could also just be blowing it over completely, just not a huge fan of that one line, "damage is applied before missing health calc"

woven swift
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Kingpin with 3* sotss probably still has enough damage to insta dunk squishies

cyan thicket
woven swift
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Yup

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No real changes

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If anything the whole situation is now worse and it's unclear whether you get dunked or not

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And platforms are more expensive

weak flax
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@soft mulch are ppl playing saros in EU? if so, u know what relics they run?

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seems like rn with resonating idol working on dash, saros can be playable again

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or at least playable after wukong is banned after X amount of games, if doing that format lol

brisk rune
soft mulch
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@nocturne leaf played him here

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@weak flax With the tier2 relics now available in scrims, i dont think anyone has a fixed build for him yet

weak flax
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ah ok. i was hoping theres someone in EU i could learn from

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i do wanna try him after wukong gets banned, with tier 2 idol build + something else

deft talon
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so dunno about this one

hushed vortex
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(#ad)

hushed vortex
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also the new hunter is added to it aswell

brisk rune
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@weak flax sprocaine playing saros on scrims

weak flax
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i was gonna do saros + oath today in scrims but oath got banned, so didnt do it

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instead we did hudson myth zeph and it felt super OP

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with the idol build on huddy

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the idol item prob needs to be reworked

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i wont be surprised if EU starts seeing the huddy too

ocean drum
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I'd doubt eu will use him. They have some serious hudson doubters.

weak flax
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well u dont use huddy cuz u think huddy is good. u use him cuz u think idol is the most broken thing rn and he happens to maybe be the best idol abuser rn

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maybe EU will have someone that thinks like that

ocean drum
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Other than joule hudson is probably best idol abuser(imo)

gleaming sierra
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I haven't seen anyone play hudson in high elo/scrims so I have no concept of how he performs tbh

ocean drum
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It's actually kind if stupid honestly

gleaming sierra
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I think I saw one hudson today where I thought "yo that guy's dash is off CD like almonst instantly, what's he running?"

weak flax
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i dont have my pov since i didnt scrim today but here is a small tidbit that happened today that i thought was hilarious

ocean drum
weak flax
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"hudson dashed in, hes trolling! nvm i forgot his dash is 1s"

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basically can perma dash and perma wire is the build

gleaming sierra
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my goat ty for the link

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also not seeing much myth, what are they running on her in NA?

weak flax
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we're not rly playing myth either

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was just trying her with the hudson, but they pair nicely

ocean drum
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Idk if na even has a true "meta" rn honestly. Other than prob wu

weak flax
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having huddy teamate that perma puts down wires for her lets her play her game

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besides this one instance i dont think we rly play myth either

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Yeah only meta rn is wukong OP lol

astral cradle
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Delete idol

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It's so op on so many hunters

weak flax
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We have system where we ban top 3 most played champs after 3 games. Before the bans, its just Wukong meta, hes basically a must pick and every comp builds around him

ocean drum
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Hudson + wukong is a pretty nice comp, but at the same time wu kinda counters hudson. So hard to run him well he's in the game

gleaming sierra
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the idol + hudson build looks good

weak flax
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i found the spectator pov

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huddy can just hold down lmb and keep on dashing at ppl, like i do here

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also the dash is actually 0s cd if u short dash into someone

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with sunweaver can hold lmb and just spam press shift as fast as u can when ur next to someone

ocean drum
weak flax
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in pubs thats very strong but in scrims playing neutral game with good spacing and wire placement better ofc

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and if u ever get dove, then can do shift spam

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we won this game but i didnt play perfect ofc, or maybe i dont even play well idk, i havent touched hudson in 6 months before that game

ocean drum
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A hunter weak to dive not really weak to dive anymore.

Cool item 👍

weak flax
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but kinda goes to show how OP the build is

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a ~1s dash very powerful

ocean drum
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A simple lonely hudson player analyzing for no reason cus bored

woven swift
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Wait does idol interact with hudson rmb?

weak flax
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ya i do need to start vod reviewing, if this shit stays in the game i gotta get good at the huddy lol

woven swift
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Or does he get to use 3 abilities for free

weak flax
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rmb doesnt interact

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so u can rmb for free anytime and not break stacks

woven swift
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So as long as he doesn't ult he's free to spam dashes, wires and rmb

weak flax
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yes

woven swift
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Sounds balanced

ocean drum
ocean drum
ocean drum
astral cradle
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You have 2 weeks

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Everyone is abusing that stupid relic

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There are too many dashes with no cooldown in this game

weak flax
gleaming sierra
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yo this version of hudson actually does look really fun

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good shout kenneth

ocean drum
ocean drum
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I don't know how many people have necessarily realized this yet.

Hudson + wukong is likely the meta rn. With how good idol is on hudson wu slam becomes a for sure death 99% if the time. Only not being one when enemy has a void or zeph; but who rf plays void in comp and the zeph will likely not be on top of the persin slammed.

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I didn't think hudson would be meta i thought he'd just be a strong character.

But when thinking about comps, he likely is meta.

soft mulch
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yesterday

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Mercury Ghost into Bishop Oath ban

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Peak irony that were trying to practice for madmagicals mercury tournament on saturday and mercury is banned in scrims

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if ur wondering what the state of EU organization is

fathom idol
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Ty for the stats

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Always nice to check it out

soft mulch
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but i cant help but notice that per usual this accomplished nothing and hudson ended up dying at the end of it

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aslong as teams run kingpin he will always be bad imo

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still, i see the potential, but dont think anyone on EU will touch him

ocean drum
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Eu hates hudson fr. I do legit think he can be meta when paired with wukong.

Literal for sure kill ability on 4s cd or so (the wu slam then hudson wires)

ocean drum
soft mulch
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I do see the vision

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Ive ran allot of characters that require me to give my team a powerpoint presentation on how to play with me and hudson seems like another one of those

ocean drum
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My main idea is just easy picks with a wukong. Seems stupid op just thinking about it but gotta see it in practice.
( @weak flax run this shit bro I need data)

soft mulch
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EU loves comfort picks so i doubt anyone will really get into it, the risk to reward ratio seems too sketchy

ocean drum
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Yea especially cus it's likely gone in a couple weeks. So unless someone really enjoys the new hudson build they likely won't even try

weak flax
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technically prob any of us can run hudson but we wanna practice specific comps

nocturne leaf
soft mulch
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i said what i said

nocturne leaf
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If you could have 5 days to practice for a tournament that you can win money in or 2 days to practice for a tournament you could win money and and 2 days to practice for one you can't you are an idiot if you choose the ladder

soft mulch
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people only played mercury because theyre practicing for saturday

ocean drum
soft mulch
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this character is weak af

nocturne leaf
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They played it because it was new and hasn't been played in scrims too

soft mulch
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so it griefs both realistic practice and practice for the "for-fun" tournament

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magical said there might be a prizepool, is that where the tournament in ur eyes suddenly becomes "serious" ?

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u have a bit of bias here since ur hosting a tournament soon

nocturne leaf
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So that's on the people that pick it, you can complain but imo you look dumb if you complain about scrims being focused on a tournament with a prizepool over one without one

soft mulch
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its just u know there are no inhouses

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u know ranked has restrictions

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and u then ban peoples practice character

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thats literally TERRIBLE

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its like banning eva on release xddd

nocturne leaf
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The bans are based on pickrate which is the format wcyd

soft mulch
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yea but i saw atleast 10 people mention what i did yesterday

nocturne leaf
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I'm not gonna tell people don't pick the new character that would be stupid

soft mulch
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symeri aswell

nocturne leaf
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Idk what you did yesterday

soft mulch
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"why tf is mercury banned when people only play it for magical tournament practice"

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@nocturne leaf we can always learn from our mistakes and make a announcement that mercury cant get banned tonight, thoughts?

nocturne leaf
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No that's dumb xd

gleaming sierra
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you have a hudson believer in me

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i'm convinced

weak flax
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im gonna make a vid on it

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wait for my vid :3

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resonating idol + sunweaver on KP also super strong for ranked / solo queue

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prob good for scrims too

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stack it on dash and hook, and just spam those 2

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if u do land hook, then u can dunk after

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dunk breaks stacks but its very ez to get it back to 10 with it enhancing hook

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and in skirmish fights u just play it like old amplifier KP when it was broken

gleaming sierra
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legit funner than zeph

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I'm switching to hudson

weak flax
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huh?

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cmon ur the last zeph, u cant switch

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jk idk how many other zephs there are, in NA theres like none that run him in scrims except my team

ocean drum
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He fun now but that ain't gonna last

ocean drum
# weak flax im gonna make a vid on it

Is it sunweaver in comp? Cus in ranked at least it's felt way better to go vive and just survive, seems to be the main consensus in the hudson channel as well.

weak flax
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dont need vive to survive, ur dash is already at a 2s ish cd

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just play well and position well

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Feel like u will miss out on kills if u go vive over sunweaver

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i dont think its an exaggeration to say that sunweaver can almost double his dps during the shift spam sequences, while also providing decent healing too

ocean drum
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Maybe, sunweaver still 1 star for me and it gets stupid better at later levels.

Just sometimes I feel like i would not have survived without vive infuser.

weak flax
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the real answer is that it depends on ur teammates and the lobby quality. In a high elo lobby and u have noob teammates, go vive infusor. In general with vive infusor it gets way easier to make it to top 2 in ranked. But in a lower elo lobby where you are the best player, you can still consistently make it to top 2 with Sunweaver while also netting urself more kills, and bigger snowball that lets u have higher chance of winning

ocean drum
weak flax
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this has been my experience in general playing ranked and the strategy that I use when trying to climb

ocean drum
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I feel like the 3 options are:
Vive infuser, rampager, and sunweaver.
Depends are star level I'd say. And whether you wanna dmg focus or survivability focus.

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Would probably help if you mentioned what to go based on star, cus some items just get so so much bettwr with higher stars. Like sunweaver is probably best at 3 star(i didn't even know it gave health until now) but I don't got that so for me it just isn't

weak flax
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Right. Ig im talking specifically about 3stars. But at 2stars I would consider Sunweaver the best option by far

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At 3stars its between Vive Infusor and Sunweaver

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3 Star Vive Infusor is extremely overtuned

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lastly I would say the 3 options, I wouldnt go Rampager, but I would consider Ardent Songbow

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Ardent is good backup for when you miss a dash during a dash spam sequence

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Right now thi character in this state, imo, is good enough at surviving that its best to maximize his damage in some form

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with sunweaver, if u get dove by single or even double, u dont need to kite usually, u can just manfight and you outstat

ocean drum
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Ngl I think people overhype songbow on hudson. Not a bad item for him but I really don't think it's as good as people think.

weak flax
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I'll repost the clip I posted earlier and leave i up

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Sunweaver lets u do shit like this and actually win the trade

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this clip is hilarious but this is part of the play pattern

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At level 3 Sunweaver, and I'm lvl 15 there, it means every dash I do is adding an extra 80 + (15 * 4) = 140 damage

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I dash around idk maybe 8 or 9 times

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so around 1000 extra damage (before armor) and maybe like 600ish healing

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Winning the trade like this is super important because this is how you solo carry games and play for big RP wins

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once you kill one, you get extra HP, and dash back

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If I had vive there instead, I think I prob do same play and I get healed a good amount by it, but I wouldnt have proper kill pressure, she prob resets her dash and she gets away, and end result is both me and her are weaker

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maybe she runs into a new team and they get the KS and the RP for it

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In a solo queue env, I think more about solo carrying and how to best do that

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in something like scrims or coordinated env, a lot more builds and strategies are viable cuz u (prob) have a team to rely on lol

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we can take rest of discussion to hudson channel if u want, dont wanna derail this thread, this actually one of my fav threads that i check up on to get feel for competitive meta

ocean drum
astral cradle
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I didn't think about sunweaver

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It makes a lot of sense

gleaming sierra
ocean drum
gleaming sierra
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xd

ocean drum
gleaming sierra
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he feels like the most fun character in the game

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and its not even close

ocean drum
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I'd love for him to get some sort of way to do the dash spam when hitting someone, but ik they'll never do that.

I specify when hitting someone cus he should not have a 2s base dash cd lol

woven swift
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Which was bugged af and gave a refund for dashing through trees/bushes/anything

ocean drum
woven swift
ocean drum
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I've been legit running down warmups the same way lol

minor mason
fossil lance
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welcome back

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impregnator gragas

hushed vortex
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my goat

fossil lance
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gonna have to get that bomba guy

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to play thiss game

soft mulch
woven swift
soft mulch
woven swift
soft mulch
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actually nevermind, the website doesnt have that feature yet

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woops

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first 2 games this comp won

image.png
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but u can check hunter stats on this site in terms of winrate etc

hushed vortex
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yea if you know what teams played you can check any players history and see what hunters were played

soft mulch
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@woven swift you can hit "custom range" and choose todays date, then u can see the winrate

image.png
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we do have the feature nevermind

woven swift
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It shows general pick/winrates it's good enough

soft mulch
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this was today

ocean imp
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the bans are griefing the stats tho

soft mulch
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not really

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if a character is banned it doesnt count towards the pickrate or winrate

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if oath is overpowered and 10 teams run him, he can have 10% winrate max

tiny cosmos
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💔

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can eu lock in plz

ocean imp
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like no one is picking joule until 4 bans and they have no other picks

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and at that point everyone is playing mickey mouse comps

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or someone like crysta only comes out when oath is banned

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so her stats will be higher than they should be in a comp setting

hushed vortex
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also crysta has been picked pre oath bans quite a bit.

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K/D will never really be an ACTUAL stat, because no matter what usually hunters that are played less will have way different stats compared to hunters who are generally played more

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same thing with winrates and Avg. Placement

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and not adding them at all even if they're not being played a lot just seems stupid

ocean imp
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I mean even without the bans the stats are just completely pointless

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whatever characters the top teams play

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will just have the highest stats

hushed vortex
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hm

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if you think about it that's like the entire point ?

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because that's showing that maybe those hunters specifically are giga outperforming other hunters

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and it's showing you a specific meta that is generally being played in comp

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you can look at it right now and see all the top 5 pickrates is all the meta hunters currently in comp

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that was like the whole point originally, to show devs and whoever is interested what IS actually being played

ocean imp
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but thats not true because there is not enough competition forcing ppl to play meta

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maybe pickrate is fine

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but I mean the other stats

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like avg placement

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or winrate

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no one is going to put saros or elluna top 5 for scrims

hushed vortex
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Yes and that is partially my fault because I didn't add a cut-off since there wasn't really a lot of data to begin with.

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Also this is generally the faults of databases or datasets with little/lacking data.

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over time it will build up and set itself to a normal amount

ocean imp
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even when you have more data

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saros will still be high wr because sprocaine will play him

hushed vortex
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if he keeps him at 10-15% wr over 100 games

ocean imp
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or maybe myth will be high winrate because blink and yaser will play him

hushed vortex
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then people will see that saros CAN be meta and CAN be played.

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and is actually performign pretty well.

ocean imp
hushed vortex
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same with Elluna, if people see that she actually gets picked and has generally high winrate it will show people that she has actual potential to be played at a high level considering someone is clearly performing well enough on that hunter to boost it's winrate.

ocean imp
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any character can have these meta stats if someone in a top team decides to pick them

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I think there is just a massive skill disparity rn

hushed vortex
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if anyone in a top team can make a hunter that you say "isn't supposed to be meta" actually meta then clearly that hunter has potential to be meta to begin with no ?

ocean imp
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even if SB starting playing hudson they would probably still do well

ocean imp
hushed vortex
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as you said eitherway if there will eventually be a "lesser skill disparity" this website will still showcase the stats.

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I don't really see what you're trying to argue against currently.

shy tapir
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I feel like having the hunter pickrates be based on the team, so I could see that TSM is #1.83 average scrim placement, and then see what their hunter pickrates are to get an idea of what they play to accomplish that.

Feels like that would help a lot with interpreting or parsing the data.

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That would be my first idea at least

hushed vortex
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My main concern with that is literally just that I'd just have to figure out how to even fit that into that space at all.

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The only way I'd see this working would be if I'd make a page purely for that Teams stats basically like a match history but for that team specifically

ocean imp
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but I am saying rn and for the forseeable future they almost have no meaning

hushed vortex
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because fitting the pickrates of the hunters people play inside of that leaderboard, I don't think is possible.

hushed vortex
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I'd say pickrate is still relevant as is the top builds showcasing what people pick on those hunters.

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Aswell as the general match history aswell, that also has a use.

simple dock
shy tapir
hushed vortex
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so basically top picked for each player on that team

shy tapir
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That sounds like it could still be useful to me. Just click last 7 days and see meta w/ most picked compositions, see what teams are playing something different & how well those different things are working.

hushed vortex
soft mulch
soft mulch
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good teams can do good on characters i think are bad!!!

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therefore every stat ever is invalid!

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kappa

ocean drum
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Good teams can do good on any character as long as they are good at macro? What, no way.

soft mulch
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in battle royale games with multiple different teams its impossible to judge how good characters are doing

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if a good team that plays niche characters does well, those characters will show up as OP

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low pickrate = nobody to grief the characters stats

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its why elluna is so high, my team won like 4 games with her

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and nobody else plays her really except synoyd, who also won games on her

tiny cosmos
shy tapir
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If you have good data there's probably a lot you can do, the main issue is we just don't have good data

hushed vortex
# shy tapir If you have good data there's probably a lot you can do, the main issue is we ju...

Yep I've thought about this too, it's very hard to determine what actually IS really good and what isn't, considering the meta is changing pretty quickly, especially considering that the sample size that we have for EU is insanely low. In a timespan of 2 weeks between patches we only have at MOST 8 scrim blocks we can gather data from and even that doesn't necessarily happen considering scrim signups aren't looking to good recently. That's a very low sample size, HOWEVER it still does give an insight into meta and what hunters are generally preferred in a competitive environment, aswell as what relics are clearly overperforming over others.

soft mulch
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Ill write up a reddit post to promote this scrims website i think, there are so many people who dont even know about the scrims side of the game and this could peak some more interest and signups

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I wonder how many unknown players have grinded to master / grandmaster and quit cus of restrictions, without even knowing that they can signup to custom lobbies

soft mulch
soft mulch
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EU prizepool tournament live now!

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Most likely last EU tournament for a while, all the big teams playing!

native zephyr
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here to check historical elluna winrates because someone was trying to gaslight me saying she has been OP and a competitive mainstay "since november 2024"
"in every region" im not even taking the argument back to him or calling him out i just had to check for my sanity
pre 1.0 pickrates
0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6.7%, 0, 0, 0, 6.2%, 8.3%, 0, 0, 1.4%, 5.6%, 0, 0,

serene hazel
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Yeah she was banned all the time so broken that's why 0

native zephyr
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so these are the +Δ characters according to eu stats

image.png
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every other character is -Δ

narrow belfry
narrow belfry
native zephyr
narrow belfry
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for sure

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theres someone in a thread right now talking about how weak and bad elluna feels to play

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lol

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both ends of the spectrum

native zephyr
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you had to trade off a lot more damage and healing to build health and now u dont

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but yeah i wasnt surprised to see 1.0 made her pickrate jump

soft mulch
tiny cosmos
vagrant tiger
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she was playable in quads pre open beta

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but that was such a long time ago

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and even then

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not even that strong just playable

foggy lagoon
narrow crag
fathom idol
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She’s back from her vacation

hollow badge
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Myth

ocean drum
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Myth op again :(

soft mulch
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had a good run fellas much love to everyone that was part of this community

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we gave it our best but 1.0 was beyond saving unfortunately

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shoutout to meap for the bots and websites and all the talented casters and players in the scene, played multiple games competitively but none have provided more nostalgic moments than supervive, goodbye bittersweet game

thorny lava
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Oh yeah i only really talked about the people that ran events, but big thanks to the shouters and also huge thanks to meap for actually making the entire comp environment easier to track

soft mulch
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figured its appropriate to type my appreciation and goodbyes in here since every other channel in this server is flooded with "HAHA game is dead league better" individuals

ocean drum
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Feels like some people were just waiting for the game to die. Idk why they're even here

thorny lava
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i mean a ton of them are people that used to be passionate about the game and ended up being ignored and fucked over by the changes

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theyre mad because the devs stopped making a game they supported from day 1 and made a game for noone instead

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I understand their frustration

ocean drum
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Ik like 2 of those people ._.
If I haven't seen most of them idk how deep in the community you expect the devs to look

white chasm
soft mulch
ocean drum
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I swear literally everyone i spoke to knew it was gonna die and thought it was. Just was hoping it might not. I was in the same boat, I saw this shit coming many months ago, doesn't mean I'm not still gonna be hoping it turns around.

soft mulch
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during 1.0 launch i was lucky enough to get into a small chat with some devs and they upheld everything they spoke about (Systems rework, Comp scene support etc.)

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the only thing they never got around to is the final marketing push

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they deemed it not profitable i guess

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but after that talk i always thought we would get 1 last wave of sponsorships, especially since i was asked which streamers i would recommend targetting

hollow badge
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I knew it was over from open beta drop and was just coping for a few months. By 1.0 release I guessed EOS was coming soon. Thought they would close the game sooner tbh.
Also thought theyd have the decency to actually allow community hosted stuff

soft mulch
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their goal was to get the game in a state where the core community loves it, but after seeing the PBE negativity and the fact that most people played their tournaments but didnt touch the game at all outside of them, they prob decided to shut it down since marketing wont save it atp

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supervive is my favorite game but i just cant recommend it to anyone because i dont play any of the official modes and was lucky to transition into the custom games scene, which i played daily

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there was a near 0% chance to get new players onboard ever cus they would get stomped in customs and quit, or realize ranked is boring and quit aswell xd

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closest we got to successful onboarding was @exotic kelp tier2 events, shoutout to him

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if those happend MUCH earlier i think we couldve possibly seen a different outcome for this game, im most disappointed about the fact that until the very end, the competitive scene was never supported and was upheld by individuals only

thorny lava
soft mulch
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for anyone reading this, dont forget that tonight the FINAL supervive tournament takes place, if ur interested in watching make sure to show some love to our goated casters and organizers!

white chasm
white chasm
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the game before 1.0

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EA killed everyones interested so barely anyone come to look around for release caus they knew what they were getting

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gonna miss the supervive engine though, gonna miss playing shiv and joule there's no other game with that experience