Season Zero: Carbine arrives, Void & Joule Buffs, & more!

[soft current]

-oc15 24/05/2025

to be fair, ive seen some double quickblade voids

[sudden dock]

double vamp Hudson was the old meme pub build

[reef pilot]

oh yeah i did that too

[sudden dock]

double vamp is done by some shivs in pubs too

[soft current]

doesnt change the fact that double tech is the superior build for many hunters and mainly abused in high ranks by bishops / myths

[scarlet ore]

I had a cooked double blade hudson build where you had 2s dash cd

[reef pilot]

yeah exactly much easier to make a strong techblade when you can only have one imo

[full crypt]

double tech blade myth rain of arrows spam :^)

[sudden dock]

it's underrated on Felix too, 2 ults in a fight isn't uncommon

[soft current]

https://tenor.com/view/tales-of-phantasia-rain-of-arrows-arrow-rain-bombardment-arrows-gif-24144239

this is actuall POV

[sudden dock]

I hope this doesn't somehow manifest into having separate haste stats for every ability

[soft current]

its looping the arrowrain like it does ingame

:)!

[scarlet ore]

I would love passive haste

[full crypt]

its not a bug its a feature

you're supposed to be able to wall off a choke forever

[soft current]

What if they nerf all of myths CDs by 15% and give her passive 15% CDR?

then any CDR she builds with tech becomes less impactful

assuming it stacks diminishingly

[sudden dock]

it does

[soft current]

its kinda what they did with brall aswell no?

on his passive with the dash haste

[hazy forge]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESS! Always the goat for doing this 🐐

Even if these stopped, you will forever hold that title 😎

[full crypt]

happy birthday jess!

[soft current]

this is said once a week

[scarlet ore]

Safe to say she is goated.

[soft current]

i cant tell anymore whats real birthday wishes and what isnt

[hazy forge]

Easy all star status

[hazy forge]

It is real every time... wdym?

[scarlet ore]

Could safely say the title is... locked

[hazy forge]

Some would even say SAFELY locked in...

[scarlet ore]

Good news I caught the pesky fly

[hazy forge]

W

[scarlet ore]

Ripped its wings off and water boarded it

[hazy forge]

Got any good intel? Maybe it knows something about 1.0

[scarlet ore]

It just keeps saying "bzzzzzzt bzt bzzzt"

[hazy forge]

It speaks in code

[scarlet ore]

The fly has spoken. Hudson buffs coming.

[hazy forge]

Hehe

[scarlet ore]

Anyways its 4 am. Gn everyone

I wish there where more hudson emotes

[hazy forge]

NIGHTY NIGHT MX. HUDSON GAMING

[hearty slate]

you didn't hear this from me but I strongly suspect they will be quite busy when 1.0 drops on something else

[molten ore]

You are correct I didn't hear it from you

...I read it from you...

hehe

[solemn idol]

I wonder what That Could Be...

[molten ore]

when is 1.0 again? I forgor 💀

[nocturne glacier]

sometime this summer

not confirmed of an actual date

[molten ore]

ahh gotcha gotcha

[hearty slate]

well I mean... CN release lines up perfectly with the end of the battle pass

[molten ore]

lmao yeah that would check out haha

[solemn idol]

https://tenor.com/view/capri-savage-gif-16447139331513437270

[ionic glacier]

+1 on this. Not biased opinion at all btw

[tame spoke]

another inconsistency with Elluna is matchups - any character (brall) that can insta deathbox are going to be very unfair against elluna

[hoary swift]

One good thing about Hudson's rework i wanna mention is the exhaust feature. It may seem weird to like such a big debuff but I think its great forcing hudson players to actually think about whether to use rmb or not rather than making it his whole thing.

The only problem I have with it is imo the exhaust last too long when you are fully winded up. Being fully winded up feels like a complete debuff rn, the range it gives is basically pointless and you do the same amount of damage being winded up no matter how winded up you are(like fully winded up does the same amount of dmg is when huddy first winds up)

Also please let huddy use powers while using lmb 🙏 i beg if you

[jade jay]

The only one I don’t see is double mana. The rest I’ve seen plenty.

[nocturne glacier]

Felix goes double vamp right now

[soft current]

this sounds so much worse than what double tech gives for bishop / myth tho, my original statement remains the same

• felix without helmet is griefing in my eyes

[nocturne glacier]

was more commenting on the statement of "i have only seen double tech being ran", not that myth/bishop going double tech is a good thing

[nocturne glacier]

and yeah you'd assume so but vamp basically makes up for any realistically lost hp and lets you actually kill people

[soft current]

yea no, ty for ur input, i personally havnt seen any double vamp felix but i can see that being a build some might try

[nocturne glacier]

it's what most people in #felix are building at least

[soft current]

i think if there was direct data, double tech pickrate is atleast 3x higher than all of the other double-blades combined

[nocturne glacier]

some are dabbling in tech blade but helms are seldom built besides like, perseverance if your team does enough damage

yea

idk how much higher but it's definitely THE most built double blade

[soft current]

felix best playstyle in coordinated environment is def helmet and just being annoying in enemys faces

ok back to the point: lets nerf double tech

[nocturne glacier]

if your comp can make up for the damage yeah

but yeah with double tech it is 100% the most picked

especially with bishop

[soft current]

increase myth and bishops cooldowns by 20%, give their passive 20% CDR

then any tech item built will be less effective cus it stacks diminishingly

theres ur answer @nocturne glacier

not even 1 vamp item

and ironically double tech per usual

xddd

[cunning terrace]

actually that would buff them

would put their base cds at 1,2 * 0,8 = 0,96 (96%) of what they are rn.

And if a tech blade gives 25%, too lazy to check actual number then it goes from

1 * 0,75 = 0,75 (75% of initial cd)
to
1,2 * 0,8 * 0,75 = 0,72 (72% of initial cd)

[soft current]

uhhhh

there we go the 2 best felix players both go double tech

[nocturne glacier]

1. why are we bringing this back up
2. yes this build is more picked in comp environments when your comp is built for actually dealing damage and felix doesn't have to

[soft current]

well making the example that double vamp is best in bot-lobbies is also just silly

[nocturne glacier]

uhhh huh

[soft current]

and i asked him for ranked

this is not related to comp

the whole era the game is currently going through is all preparation for 1.0

the original statement was: double tech has got to go

and i couldnt agree more

[nocturne glacier]

what they build is what they build, it certainly isn't the divine scripture but the current talk in #felix is more about double vamp or double tech

[soft current]

if this game on 1.0 gets 20k+ players and there is actuall high rank gameplay in high ranks, everyone will notice how broken double tech is

[soft current]

well, double tech is still better

[nocturne glacier]

• i'm him on felix

[soft current]

the average person runs like 18 miles an hour

now u got usain bolt giving u tips on how to run faster

but ur stuck on wanting to run 18 miles an hour

just build double tech bro its so much better

[nocturne glacier]

uh huh

[soft current]

idk why u people always brush aside everything with "oh but thats in comp, doesnt count"

like yea bro... the place where people actually are good at the game?

the state the game would be in if it was active?

[nocturne glacier]

where it's a different metagame because coordinated play is actually a possibility, yes

[soft current]

thats the state the game needs to be in for 1.0 tho

if not the users are just gonna go down-down-down again

none of my friends play ranked anymore

its not about the soloque restriction its about getting perma paired with gold or lower on ur team and on enemy teams

so TLDR: felixs best build is def not double vamp, it might be in bot-farming lobbies, but if thats what ur measuring it by then ur entire opinion is invalid

now this person backed u up actually but hes also not the greatest

[nocturne glacier]

i don't get why you're so adamant on this when all I said was "felix chat is talking between double vamp or double tech" and said nothing about the state of double tech, I did not deny its power, especially on other hunters

you went to the lengths of attempting to bully out other opinions by saying "well this guy says it's meta so it has to be and everything else is bad" while throwing shade at anyone who disagrees when I did nothing but state what currently several people are building in a ranked environment

i do not understand your hostility here

[prisma bane]

the funny part about this is that with felix passive he gains more value from double quick than double tech

[soft current]

i think its just about having as little as possible downtime on shield

[prisma bane]

since u get your cd back from igniting people anyways and now u actually get to glue on them

[soft current]

thats his only real spell anyway

[prisma bane]

yeah but if u are igniting there is no downtime on q

[soft current]

interesting

[prisma bane]

thats why on arena i prefer to go vamp quick instead of tech

[soft current]

hots later? 🧐

gotta continue the winstreak

[prisma bane]

im down

got get master before season ends

[nocturne glacier]

whatcha running with that anyways, I've been running turbo booster if I'm building a quickblade

well

in arena

[prisma bane]

in arena turbo booster last stand

in br bgh since the ap is broken

[nocturne glacier]

bgh yea

in br

[prisma bane]

if they only made bgh viable in arena

[nocturne glacier]

yea it's nonexistent if you're in arena

[prisma bane]

like make it so u stack with kills instead of boss kills

like 6 kills u get full stack

[nocturne glacier]

something like that yea

[prisma bane]

same with power user

im sure there is a way to make it work there

[nocturne glacier]

gonna move to #felix rq to continue this

[prisma bane]

maybe make it so u have to maintain the basecamp for a set time for it to stack

[solemn idol]

I love running big game hunter and power user in arena

[sudden dock]

not shocked

[safe pumice]

Or just go back to old cd system and remove double items xd

[soft current]

safelocked stated the devteam thinks double tech is fine

which is why i suggested that

idk if arcanes math checks out with the diminished stacking, im p sure it makes tech items worse

[cunning terrace]

it does check out. the "diminished return" on stacking cdr items is kind of an illusion. The actual total cdr number looks smaller, but the value is actually the same Having additive cdr (25+25 = 50) wouldn't make the value the same, it would cause "increasing return" on stacking cdr

it depends on whether you're thinking in terms of "seconds" or in terms of "relative ability casts"

[soft current]

well then idk

straight up nerf myth arrow CDR by 3-4 seconds

nerf bishop rmb by 3 sec CD but if u self-cast it reduces it by 3

[cunning terrace]

i was ingame so didnt have time to type the rest: It's like saying that techblade is higher value on Kingpin RMB with 13 seconds cd than Myth E with 9 seconds cd. It's kinda true but kinda false

[slender harness]

we still do? I thought double vamp got dumped when they've butchered last stand

[nocturne glacier]

overdrive is still good

but yeah it's not as good as it was

overdrive is only good if you have a few vamp sources tho

so like blood stone or a second vamp item

[slender harness]

like, my face when it was the patch day and i still haven't read patchnotes but went for a felix play

and I've faced the sad reality of getting half healing i should

[nocturne glacier]

real

[slender harness]

but oh well, @undone sierra condemned me for 100 games as void and it seems that my brain can't switch to any other hunter now

when someone steals void from me I keep trying to teleport or hit people through walls

[crimson elk]

https://tenor.com/view/are-you-sure-about-that-gif-17735709754501735355

[hoary swift]

The only problem with double items to me is how its literally impossible to find it out without someone telling you.

The armory thing seems to be about items and if thats true then this doesnt even matter in the end.

[scarlet ore]

Been having the same issue.
A little frustrating when I try to track cd's and suddenly they just have them up again

Even when accounting for 1 tech blade

[hoary swift]

I just always assume its as small as possible. Like I assume jin's dunk is on a 3 second cd at all times just in case he is running double tech.

[shadow salmon]

idk if this affects anyone that much except for me but i wish that when you picked random it would autosave the skin you last used. right now it always gives you default skin when you pick random :c

when u let the timer run out on your pick, it delays randomizing your character so you cant steal ur teammates picks

and when you are late pick then it will only pick your character when ur in the loading screen

so u ahve no time to pick skin

[sudden dock]

i always do this, i feel like it should behave this way when u lock

i enjoy seeing "random" in the loading screen but lack of skins is annoying yeah

[shadow salmon]

or even if it randomized which skin/chroma it picked along with the character that would be ok too ^.^

[pastel gate]

A skin/glider randomizer option would be very kewl

[hoary swift]

The least they could've done is reduce hudson dash cd :(

I am sad at these basically non existent buffs.

[pastel gate]

My guess is they are going to keep Hudson on the weakers side at least until after 1.0. Dont wan't all the new players getting huddied like begining of OB.

[hoary swift]

If thats true then its dumb. The rework doesnt even accomplish anything like that. He'll always be a problem for lower/new players unless they completely change his kit.

Keeping him in his current state simply makes him near unplayable against literally any decent player. And it feels so so bad.

[scarlet ore]

Similar thing will probably happen with Eva

[hoary swift]

Eva deserves it tbh. She doesnt need to make her and her teammates fucking immortal just by existing. Kind of forcing you to run anti heal or be at her mercy. Its super binary and I think its bad.

[hazy forge]

I think in general with 1.0 on horizons and whatever big changes they are planning, they are probably just going focus on other reworks/# tweeks while hopefully hammering down on bugs to make the best experience possible for new players and vets. Maybe they will buff Hudson again maybe not,

Depending on how 1.0 is, it may not even matter because of how big the potential changes will be

[hoary swift]

It seems like we're for the most part stuck with the same balancing it seems. Just based off of what pwyff said today. Idk if thats right but thats just something I took out of his msgs.

[trim sail]

Do remember that changes that seem small in paper can have a bigger impact than players realize. It's entirely possible that Hudson is fine after this round of changes no matter how unlikely it may seem.

[scarlet ore]

Really depends on how strong the "Push" on shift is.

If it allows him to dash into enemy and force them into Lmb/rmb line of fire just cus the push impulse is that strong its maybe good.

Nope it doesnt and is very inconsistent.

[hoary swift]

Pretty sure it'll just go the way hudson dashes and nothing else changed. This also means he could pull people into wires with dash but actually hitting that is way harder than you'd think(cus before you could time a dash ram and push someone in the opposite direction you dashed but still dashing back creating good distance, and with this change it'd now pull or should)

[scarlet ore]

Its weird.

It kinda pushes in the direction of the dash but inconsistently.

Had someone go the opposite direction once????

And cant really utilize barrel spin push either cus well

[hoary swift]

The knockbakc on dash is very useless, it kinda always has been. The small amount of dmg it does is more impactful than the knockback

[hoary swift]

His dash still won't kill green jellies so his main escape tech is gonna be weird. Doubt anyone even cares or thinks it matters but it matters a decent amount

[scarlet ore]

Fun fact. the reason it was added was so hudson would have a way to proc Mob vulnerability without Q... And then it was turned into a feature???

[hoary swift]

Well the dmg on his dash is now only useful for mob staggers. Cusbthe rework made dashing into someone's face an actual death sentence even tho they tried to make it a more essential part of his kit

[prisma bane]

does using powers still cancel his lmb?

[hoary swift]

He can't even use them while lmbing unless that was changed and not documented.

I have died too many times to it

[scarlet ore]

Kind of

[prisma bane]

ok

was thinking of trying felix build on him but i guess its better not to

[hoary swift]

I got a single request for a hudson buff currently. Decrease the cd on his wires. With that he could honestly be kinda decent, idk about strong but he probably wouldnt be too bad.

There is still the issue how his wires dont really hold choke points too well but it feels like you guys dont want them to be for that.

His ult being a survival ult woukd be nice but I doubt yall want it to be like that. But with the dash delay gone hudson isnt really that helpless anymore.

[hoary swift]

Funnily enough this was right. Hudson might honestly be bettwr than jin now, making hudson no longer the weakest hunter in the game :D

I still think he could use some more buffs but nothing massive.

[scarlet ore]

Carbines q Moggs Hudson q in almost every way

https://tenor.com/view/mog-mogged-snowman-gif-5368055129249858152

[hoary swift]

I want 2 things for hudson(the main things I wanted I mean): for you to be able to do a shorter dash with his dash, sometimes the short dash is still just too long.
And for his wires to get massively buffed. His wires are simply really bad rn. Not useless, just kinda shit.

[hoary swift]

Im back with double items. They feel like they just shouldn't be in the game. How short your dash/abilities can getting with double tech and double quick feels kinda dumb. Like basically every character can have close to no cd on their abilities or dash. The main issue is how the game wasnt balanced around double items, so the fact they exist kinda just destroyed the balance.

Also, remove brall's knockback and give him compensation merfs pretty pls
https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1377400009804349501

[prisma bane]

they are not gonna get addressed rn i believe

armory is probably gonna do something to balance that so we will have to w8

[hoary swift]

Yea that's what im assuming too. It just feels really bad rn. Just had a myth legit use her rmb 3 times within the span of 1 rez beacon. That just feels so stupid.

Im praying the game is more balanced at 1.0. Cus this kinda shit is what'll push people away from the game.

[prisma bane]

if they wanted to do something rn i think reducing the cdr cap u gain from double tech from 43% to 35 would be a good start for now

would have to actually see the numbers but I think thats a way to balance it

[hoary swift]

Thag could be pretty good. I kinda wish they'd cap every stat from double items at 35%. Could actually make it not feel as dumb

[prisma bane]

its actually 43% without good rolls

its 52% if u get a good roll which is more than double tech + cdr runes

rng is fun

[hoary swift]

I love just being op as fuck just cus i got lucky. It's great.

[prisma bane]

like tech trailblazer alone gives 36%

[hoary swift]

That's... a little high

[prisma bane]

u can get up to 59% with runes

im going to see if i can get more with 2 good rolls

[hoary swift]

Gl on that. Will prob take a while

[prisma bane]

yeah its taking some time

67% is the max i got so far

brall with trailblazer and double cdr runes

[pastel gate]

Dosent seem worth bringing up since they keep hinting that armory/1.0 is changing that.

[prisma bane]

69% now with tech greed

if we go for the values alone i would get 100% cdr from this with 66% from items, 14% from runes and 20% from brall's passive

[pastel gate]

I think alot of our current complaints are just complaining about an "old build" of the game. I would rather the devs put all their effort into 1.0

[prisma bane]

we are basically playing an old build but I wonder how hard would it be to do some number changes to break the stale meta we have had for a while now until we wait for 1.0

[pastel gate]

It would be nice, but my conern is always about taking dev time/energy away from more important things.

[prisma bane]

yeah thats why i wonder how hard would it be

[pastel gate]

from pwyffs post it sounds like everyone is working insanely hard on 1.0.

[prisma bane]

because if u are not gonna shut down the servers until 1.0 at least make it fun to keep playing the game

[scarlet ore]

Next patch just randomly gut Oath and buff Jin and Elluna to be top tier

Fishing rod now oneshots

[prisma bane]

and dont say anything on patch notes as per usual so oath mains randomly get fucked

[scarlet ore]

Theyve had it too good for far too long

Give them the hudson treatement

[prisma bane]

ok so gut one dash from myth and add the delay for oath

that should make things even

[prisma bane]

finally got it

with items alone u can get 60%

that makes rain of arrows go down to 3,7s cd

with the runes u get 65% with 3,2s cd

stacked brall goes to 72%

with 8.5s on his ult

2,8s on chain with lvl 4 and 0,7 on rmb

[sudden dock]

they nerfed elluna this last patch to some peoples surprise

mine for sure

well, or the tooltip was just fixed to reflect how it already was

idk which

[modern willow]

Happy Friday.

Reading!

[prisma bane]

oh hey Jess

Happy birthday

[cunning terrace]

happy birthday jess <3

[modern willow]

💀

Thank you.

That skull is huge.

RE: Items, yeah.

[prisma bane]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1377400009804349501 gonna leave this here since Tom forgot to mention this when talking about Brall

[cunning terrace]

can i wish for some myth bug fixes for my birthday

[modern willow]

We have all the Hunters scheduled out. When's your birthday?

[cunning terrace]

in 2 months 💀 want to give my gift early? :3

[modern willow]

Lol. Going to focus on Saros and Elluna first.

It's possible.

[cunning terrace]

i just want to interact with the healing plants

[modern willow]

The ones you shoot, yeah?

[cunning terrace]

yeah

myth in her shift gets knocked back by the "healing pulse" instead of healed by it

[molten ore]

lmao what? thet's weird

[scarlet ore]

I was wondering why I was staying up late... My body remebered but the mind didnt

[modern willow]

We're testing something with knockbacks in general.

[cunning terrace]

the knowers use it to escape from me

[prisma bane]

gg cant dash away from bishop punch anymore

[modern willow]

Lol.

[scarlet ore]

Maybe Hudson dash knockback can actually do something 😭

[prisma bane]

maybe gragas angle?

[molten ore]

I was chatting with some fellow vivers last night and we ended up saying something that we hadn't thought of before: The hunters seems to be designed to be fun to play, but none of them are really fun/engaging to play against.

I was kinda curious what everyone here thinks of that statement, or if you guys at TC have received similar feedback before.

[prisma bane]

impregnator huddy would be funny to watch

[scarlet ore]

it is a build that "works" pretty easily

[prisma bane]

well double quick and pray for the high roll

[modern willow]

We're still watching Hudson. Thinking about buffs, but want to see how today looks too.

[prisma bane]

u can get up to 45% dash haste

[cunning terrace]

disagree. only a couple feel actively unfun to play against imo. most notably Lightning McJin. Played 2 games earlier today where final 2 was my team and a solo no-fill jin. Gameplan was just to chill for 2 minutes until zone was small enough to kill him :p

[nocturne glacier]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1152317349614080051/1375700535717396510/supervive-nuggets-sauce-speed.gif

that time of the week

[scarlet ore]

but he doesnt stun and the dash has a minimum duration so sadly no impregnator hudson. (he is mine back off 😡 )

[cunning terrace]

just to clarify, i'm not calling jin strong. just unfun to meet

[molten ore]

No worries I get you.

[modern willow]

Yeah, it comes up. Individual Hunters come up, simliar to Arcane's note vs. it being a roster thing.

[prisma bane]

that a lot of this but i think it depends on what u usually play

[modern willow]

Different people have their one, usually.

[cunning terrace]

Most of the hunters on the roster I have a fun time fighting

[hoary swift]

since i'm gonna be busy during talk today, i'm just gonna put this here. it's a google doc that stats what i both like and don't like/ wish were thing on hudson
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lEEP0GvQESmhE4yowXp7bnJ3Zrjqak_SFdsx-EEEd9E/edit?usp=sharing
I mainly want hudson's wires to be buffed more so than everything. his wires don't feel like they do a whole lot especially with how fast they die. you guys said you made them bigger so they hold off choke points better, but they die so fast they just can't hold choke points.

[modern willow]

For some it's Brall. Others it's Jin. (For me, it's actually Felix.)

[cunning terrace]

Brall makes my list too

[modern willow]

I actually like fighting against Oath.

[cunning terrace]

mostly because of lmb knockback

[scarlet ore]

I love playing as Hudson and feeling like I cant do anything unless they mess up first.

Only respectable matchup on Hudson is another Hudson. Lock eyes and shoot

[prisma bane]

unreal

[scarlet ore]

Respect the stat check

[cunning terrace]

I don't mind oath either actually. I would like a meta-shakeup. but the hunter itself is fun to fight; i'm just sick of fighting him and only him for months

[prisma bane]

felix is probably one of the easiest to deal with of all the roster

[molten ore]

during our chat we ended up kinda agreeing that a lot of hunters have an uninteresting win condition or gameplay patterns that leads to fun using it, but a draining of engagement to be on the receiving end of it.

Some big culprits we had were Shiv with her ult one shots, Brall/Jin with infinite mobility, Beebo with uncontestable zoning, etc.

I'm unsure what could even be done with this information but I wanted to share it either way.

[modern willow]

Jin's never really bothered me. Escaping isn't a big deal if I know the team's down.

[scarlet ore]

Jin never bothered me anyways

https://tenor.com/view/elsa-gif-15774578919562803714

That was a bad joke I feel ill now

[modern willow]

Lol

[prisma bane]

jin escaping is a big deal if u are after points

[scarlet ore]

Im fine with Jin if his dashes didnt all reset after killing someone.
It was kinda cool when his only "reset" was his Q and Rmb cus it felt more "Skillful" when he actually popped off.
Now he just never kills anyone and if he does good luck catching him with the double dashes

[modern willow]

I usually feel like we can catch them eventually if they're down one. But yeah, each their own.

[prisma bane]

i mean if its last one alive sure

[trim sail]

I don't think it's completely true across all hunters, but something I noticed is that a few hunters have extremely polarizing tools that some hunters cannot play against.

The two biggest cases are characters with massive movement diffs (Brall, Jin, Shiv, etc. vs characters like Shrike or Hudson) and characters with low structure damage against hunters with high utility/damage structure (mainly Oath shield and Beebo bomb and your hunter's ability to kill them, although Beebo might not be much of an issue now after it's been nerfed (I haven't played in a while)).

Historically, it's felt like movement is everything and Supervive doesn't allow your character be good if you don't have good movement, and for the sake of future design space I think that needs to change in the long term.

[nocturne glacier]

question, if you guys are testing stuff with knockbacks is it impulses in general? mostly just curious for the scope

[sturdy coyote]

Happy Leif Erikson day Jess!

[nocturne glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-leif-erikson-day-gif-9320426

[scarlet ore]

Im gonna take a step further and say I can think of a lot of characters where 1 or two abilities are just absolute agony to fight. While the rest of the kit is pretty fine.

Or the power budget is just all in that one thing they do

[modern willow]

It's to subtly help playing against repeat boops. I'll probably let patchnotes share the full context when we're ready.

[prisma bane]

eva's orbs, felix' Q, Ghost nade currently, bishop RMB and the list goes on

[cunning terrace]

speaking of what we just talked about, i just lost a game to getting booped by the healing pulse as myth (the bug), and then get rubberbanded to death by brall lmb

[nocturne glacier]

hmm very interesting

[scarlet ore]

Hudson Rmb and now ult kinda. Shiv ult Carbine lmb, Brall Lmb, Jin dash, Joule ult

[pastel gate]

@modern willow Was wondering what you guys are thinking about the whole ally recall thing. I played a game earlier where me and another high rated player split up and kept teleporting to each other whenever we ran into a team. It felt pretty op, almost like having a teleport soul. I remember you saying before that it felt like players were able to get to every part of the map to easily, but this change where you can teleport to any ally feels like it gives a team insane ability to be everywhere. Do you guys like the new ally recall, or do you think its a little too strong?

[hoary swift]

Ima comment specifically on this, I find it dumb how when you see a jon over the abyss the literal optimal play is to just stare at him. Cus of the jin is any good he will almost always just win. Like i domt think having a hunter that just makes it so you csnt even interact with a core mechanic is good

[solemn idol]

I'd love to read the patch notes if they involve the re-implementation of Vampiric Helmet in the game

[scarlet ore]

I have insider information. They adding it

https://tenor.com/view/hacker-pc-meme-matrix-codes-gif-11310648121341593764

[sturdy coyote]

Bug if they do, what purpose will agentmo444 serve if not to ask for it to be added

[solemn idol]

If it was added right now but it had no evolution paths I'd still take it, Just saying!!!!!!!!!!

[nocturne glacier]

true and real

[scarlet ore]

Its just an 0.1% roll chance for the evo item to be a helmet with 1% vamp

[prisma bane]

no more rng pls

[modern willow]

The CC's meant to help slow down recall to Ally teleports, but it's still feeling oppressive, heard.

[prisma bane]

i had enough of 1% beebos for one day

[modern willow]

We've talked about the option of whether it should just be nearest Ally instead of giving optionality. But wanted to try this out and see since you might be playing with a friend, for example.

[solemn idol]

My true purpose would be to be with her again that's all

[pastel gate]

its certainly very convenient, but i do worry thats it can be abused, even with the silence/slow

[prisma bane]

maybe it could have a cd so something similar to WoW hearthstone

[nocturne glacier]

my friends and I love dropping dawn caps and using the anywhere but here from that biome, while the other two recall to the anywhere but here user

worlds fastest rotate

[scarlet ore]

Cant recall on ally in combat?

[cunning terrace]

the recall optionality feels very strong in scrims too. Before you "always" needed the majority to go where you wanted to go for rotations. Now you can send one guy to get the rotation while you're finishing up an area

Personally I'd like for it to go to "nearest ally" or "basecamp"

[modern willow]

Yeah, we tested a CD version. Seemed fine - not opposed to it.

[knotty gorge]

dont remove the cc or else you will see instant tp engages that are unreactable

[nocturne glacier]

This is where I'm at

[modern willow]

Kk. Yeah, that was where we were leaning originally if we were going to pull back.

[cunning terrace]

yeah the silence on ally tp is very good

[knotty gorge]

Without the silence you can have a brall deposit a felix on top of people for free

[cunning terrace]

[modern willow]

No plans to - clarifying in case someone gave that impression.

[prisma bane]

can u guys reduce the cc duration in arena tho?

sometimes someone takes a whille to start moving and just recalls to end up being cced for 5s

[modern willow]

Curious how people feel about that.

[prisma bane]

also the silence locking you from loot train is kinda bad

[nocturne glacier]

I think arena being like 2.5-3s would make sense, it's a lot more combat-heavy where that actually matters but you still should get some CC from that so no weird combat drops

[cunning terrace]

in an arena tournament we ran zeph bishop kp, because the zeph bishop interaction sends her very far very fast; and then the kp was recalling to bishop for surprise hook. To me, those plays in arena are cool and I wouldn't mind the silence to not exist in arena. But I dont play a lot of arena personally

[prisma bane]

i dont like it that much because just makes some strong char more power

but it requires good coordination and is reactable so it could be fine

[modern willow]

Yeah, let me note this one.

[prisma bane]

while we are at it can felix get some health buffs?

he has the same toughness and base hp and hp scaling as elluna

which is kinda weird for the Frontline Pyromaniac he is supposed to be

[jade jay]

He has HP scaling in other ways through his Q

[scarlet ore]

I have a suggestion. To spice up the meta for a bit before release make fishing rod deal 800dmg
Give Oath Hudsons Shift delay so they suffer.
Make Jin have 6k hp if he goes helmets.
Let elluna ult enemies and make anti heal amplify healing
All of this and more. On a random tuesday

See how fast the players adapt to a curve ball

[pastel gate]

https://tenor.com/view/wildcard-gif-7250539

[hoary swift]

hell yea, i'm down

[scarlet ore]

Any interesting topics anyone want to bring up

[nocturne glacier]

Frog Hunter When

[scarlet ore]

What would frog hunter do hop and lick for sure but what else

Also didnt Khyzaros have a concept for that

[nocturne glacier]

Maybe, can't recall

[scarlet ore]

I want an "immobile" melee character

[prisma bane]

ok bring udyr to the game

[modern willow]

Alright, back from playtest.

[scarlet ore]

TRUE! (you have no idea how much I love Udyr)

Copy paste him one to one into vive and Im maining him

[prisma bane]

same

my most played champion

even more after the rework

[scarlet ore]

Same. Only skin I ever bought was Spirit Guard Udyr

[prisma bane]

i won that from a friend

[nocturne glacier]

welcome back! hope the playtest was good

[modern willow]

The next megathread would be terrifying.

[prisma bane]

cant play udyr without the skin

[nocturne glacier]

the next megathread would be the best of our lives

[scarlet ore]

Udyr was the goofiest guy. Just a dude in a bear costume slapping people

[modern willow]

Was fun! Got third playing a new Hunter.

[nocturne glacier]

YOOO nice! hype

[scarlet ore]

Play Hudson

[modern willow]

Played Hudson a bunch last week. I'll probably run him again next.

[prisma bane]

the old sandal udyr with the lol poly feet was fun as well

[cunning terrace]

hire me so i can join the playtests? :3 i promise i'd def be a useful employee

[scarlet ore]

You dont have to hire me i live in the trash can

[knotty gorge]

is there a way to see about adjusting Jins resource gain? How he feels now is that you have to overcompensate for the HP nerf with movement and it leads to a lot of situations mid fight where you cant do anything. A buff to the regen on hit or anything would be nice, it just feels really bad to pilot Jin with how he is right now. He feels (to me) that he is an inferior Brall and only as good as the opponents are bad.

[scarlet ore]

Hey its like hudson

[modern willow]

Yeah, worthwhile callout.

[scarlet ore]

My absolute favorite clip of Udyr is the one "pro play Outplay" from that one weird month where Udyr was pick/ban 😭.

Bear man runs into lane. Slaps enemy. Stands there for 3 seconds and then runs off

[hoary swift]

Yo safelocked, buff hudson's wires pretty pls. I shall repeat this until it happens :3

[scarlet ore]

https://youtu.be/EWttE6zsT_A?si=-0aBwPC8y47tFvVi

[modern willow]

I'll take the note on the Jin mid-fight callout and the Hudson wires.

[scarlet ore]

Btw is it intended that the wires dont stop knockbacks?

People go through them sometimes

And other times they stop like they hit a wall

[modern willow]

Yeah, think I've seen that too. I'll ask the Hudson designer along with the other Hudson callouts.

[nocturne glacier]

something I'd be more interested in is a grace period for the Q reset

feels pretty bad when we kill someone but someone else last hit, so now I have to back off because I can't frontline without shield

something like "if Felix directly damaged this enemy in the last 0.25s" (not counting ignite maybe)

gotten me killed several times

[cunning terrace]

ye felix doesn't do much burst damage. he kills you over time. chances are, in a teamfight, your teammates will get the kill. at least that's my impression as a non-felix player

a "felix damaged withing last X time" makes much more sense

[scarlet ore]

I feel overtime dmg just kinda bad when burst is king

[nocturne glacier]

it isn't the teammates fault, you just can't ask your team to stop doing damage realistically but it does mean life or death for him

[cunning terrace]

alternatively "felix damaged with non-burn dmg within X time" or "Died while burning" could also work

last one is probably most thematically correct

[hoary swift]

Had an oath dash theough my wires once and ult me. Sure he took 500 dmg, but thats just a slight tickle to oath with his 6000 health or whatever. Doesn't feel good to die like that.

There's also this thing where you vsn go up 1 ground level and just go over the wires, that also feels bad.

[cunning terrace]

but seems like it would buff him a lot? but better to make him feel good and then tune numbers

[modern willow]

Oh yeah, this breakdown's helpful.

[nocturne glacier]

I like the former mostly

[hoary swift]

Also @modern willow I wanna make sure you're aware of how there is a full dash bug on hudson rn where it'll continue dashing after you let go. It has lost me countless fights

[modern willow]

Noted this one too.

[scarlet ore]

Gonna say. Imagine if literally everyone complained about their mains as much as hudson mains.

[hoary swift]

Also um, carbine still op. Idk why yall ignored his lmb dmg when that was what his problem was

[modern willow]

There's also this thing where you vsn go up 1 ground level and just go over the wires, that also feels bad.
Mm, not sure what you mean. Can you explain it in a different way, or have a clip?

[cunning terrace]

you know the celeste bug that sometimes creates a long-dash when you want to do a short-dash? same thing

[modern willow]

Oh, yes.

[scarlet ore]

I like how I can tell Out Dated's frustration slowly bubbling over.

[modern willow]

Thank you.

[cunning terrace]

also i think i replied to the wrong thing i just saw you replied to outdated

[nocturne glacier]

LMAO

[cunning terrace]

im playing supervive okay 😭

[prisma bane]

i would also like that

if the target dies while ignited he gets the q reset

but it still feels weird to me him having the same hp as elluna

[modern willow]

You're good.

I assumed you were responding to Hudson Gaming's callout.

[prisma bane]

ok this shit is funny

[scarlet ore]

Hudson Gaming

[prisma bane]

just runs in slaps gnar in the face and watch him die

average udyr gameplay

[scarlet ore]

Had me howling like a Hyena

[hoary swift]

I don't really got a clip of it but for example say i was an enemy bishop here. i would be able to ult over the enemy hudson's wires just cus i was 1 level above them. or like you can dash over them too as like celeste or something. i get not having it so they reach as high as possible, but like that feels a little low.

[cunning terrace]

you can place the wires in practice, change hunter and change team, and then record

[modern willow]

Oh, I see. You want the collision box to be taller.

[scarlet ore]

It does feel bad when a bishop just decides to jump over it

[modern willow]

Or at least, tall enough to block one level of high ground.

[scarlet ore]

If it stays the way it is then it should probably punish "collisions" more

[hoary swift]

Tried didnt really work

[hoary swift]

Yea, not like super high but at the vwry least so they can't just dash over them by going up a ground level

[mossy ermine]

Is their a jin mini rework planned soon ?

[modern willow]

Not right now. Don't want to force it.

[soft current]

@modern willow just wanted to give a heads up, mortar was bugged during a tournament yesterday to show this:
This has created some assumptions about possible features being added in the future that i assume the devs dont want leaked so it might be good to fix that 😅 #safeleaked

everyone currently has access to these placeholder items in custom games

[modern willow]

Never heard of them. (Thanks.)

[mossy ermine]

Can we talk about it or keep it a secret ?

[soft current]

i deleted my message, just wanted to let u know about it. Could i receive some elluna buffs as a reward? 🤔 👍

[modern willow]

Lol.

I can't stop you from talking about it - went Live. But I promise I won't have much to say about it until 1.0.

[soft current]

Dont worry, those who know about it arent sharing haha, if its what i assume it is, i already love the concept 👍

[scarlet ore]

If its the direction I think its going I feel its the right call.

Assuming its taking Hp/Ap stats out of equipment upgrades to make balancing easier on the stat front.

Or is it going to be called Hp/Dmg stats in the future

[mossy ermine]

ur asking for to much info

[scarlet ore]

Im just guessing

No need to answer them

Knowers know

[modern willow]

I appreciate it.

[pastel gate]

any plans for playtests soon?

[scarlet ore]

Id guess its going to be called Hp/Damage stats cus its just simpler the intuit. Also ive been playing too much BapBap and there its Hp/Damage

[mossy ermine]

I would love to be able to participate in playtest, how do we get acces ?

[scarlet ore]

Super secret button combination in client

[soft current]

hes fishing for jin buffs 😭

[pastel gate]

arent we all

[soft current]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[modern willow]

Hahah.

One of our designers is taking a look at Jin after I forwarded some of the callouts here.

[scarlet ore]

https://tenor.com/view/grug-the-croods-grandma-here-right-here-gif-12839999736777834919

This is what it probably feels like for safelocked

"Give jin buffs"

[modern willow]

Dying.

[mossy ermine]

🤯 no way

[pastel gate]

hes getting another nerf

[mossy ermine]

jin usefull in hight elo confirmed ???

[cunning terrace]

hope they keep in mind the frustrations that can be caused by a "hehe i escape everything" character in a soloq environment designed around finishing teams

[mossy ermine]

😭

[mossy ermine]

I agree, this is not what i want either

[modern willow]

Yeah. Was a factor in why he got nerfed in the first place.

[mossy ermine]

Let them cook it's fine

[cunning terrace]

yep you're a good jin but i hate meeting you in soloq for that reason. our endgames earlier today were not interactive xD

me just waiting for 2 mins until you don't have enough space to run

[pastel gate]

Jins problem is when he interacts with other hunters, he dies

[mossy ermine]

I mean that one game i was on final showdown in magebog, you could of killed me rly earlier but you guys played for zone, even tho it was not moving

But in a way you are right, i cannot hold space at all so i just have to run

[cunning terrace]

its just no point if we chase you, you have a chance. if we dont interact, you cannot win

[mossy ermine]

Indeed 😦

[pastel gate]

idk I caught height today as joule, its not impossible to catch jin with his lmb mana thing

[mossy ermine]

Jin does not have a single 1v1 good matchup

Sounds crazy as a assassin that wants to isolate targets

[pastel gate]

his roll isnt assassin, its kill stealer

[hoary swift]

kill finisher is what i've always thought of jin as. but ghost also just outperforms jin in that role

[modern willow]

Looking at balance today and Monday in more detail. Thanks for the notes, all.

[prisma bane]

if only we got points for individual kills not elims

[fervent parrot]

Do you have any nice weekend plans?

[mossy ermine]

Do you think the ranked system right now is ready for 1.0 or will there be changes on it ?

[modern willow]

Looking like..fixing my car. SUPERVIVE. Dimension 20 at Hollywood Bowl. Finishing reading The House of the Dead.

[scarlet ore]

I hope you also plan to rest and eat well

[fervent parrot]

woah! I hope you have a great time watching dimension 20, thats really cool to go see!

[modern willow]

Excited since the weather's great.

[fervent parrot]

are you going with anyone?

[modern willow]

Yeah, we're going in a group. We've all played a few D&D campaigns together before, mostly homebrew.

[fervent parrot]

thats so exciting c:

[modern willow]

I have a list of bugfixes that we're looking at. The match quality with Trios, Split Ranked, prioritizing placement, scaling kill points looks better than before. Open to more suggestions.

[hoary swift]

Maybe give a higher bonus for stuff like 1v3s or cool plays like that. Just an idea

[cunning terrace]

i think the ranked system itself is fine rn (despite wanting to play with friends ). The issue is just the lobby quality; but that's playerbase issue

[scarlet ore]

Ive been wondering this thing what would happen if ranked points where just given out for winning. And no other variation to it?

Placement = points

[modern willow]

Yess. How about you?

[scarlet ore]

Wouldnt good players just climb from being consistent.

[mossy ermine]

In my humble opinion, the bonus points before master should not be a thing, i feel like they should not be usefull if the match making is already good (on 1.0 release there will be way more players to balance it out)

[fervent parrot]

I'm off to visit a friend i've not seen in a long time this weekend - she got cats and they're really really cute!!

[mossy ermine]

And i do agree that not being able to play with friends is frustrating

[hoary swift]

One of the biggest issue i see with the ranked system is how they handle gm+. Because of how gm+ is handled it encourages them to just run around and kill the whole lobby for just 15 points. I would love if higher ranked lobbies were similar to scrims in a way but I dont think the rank system will ever allow that even with more players.

[modern willow]

They would. Argument against this has been that it can feel really unsatisfying for players who get a lot of kills, but get 0 RP.

[scarlet ore]

I do understand that but would it be worth the trade off

[modern willow]

This is the best. Yes.

[hoary swift]

When i wipe multiple real players teams solo while my teammates are just farming and I go -5 i die inside... it does feel pretty bad

[lucid vigil]

facing Beebo rolling ice zeep 4 times in row

Me : i guess i don't like this game anymore

[scarlet ore]

Builds better habbits since its about winning and not just stomping the lobby. Also must be really frustrating to win a lobby and barely get points cus you didnt stomp the lobby

[mossy ermine]

the ranked system does still have some flaws but we can agree that it's way better than on open beta release

[scarlet ore]

I dont really do ranked but to me biggest reward coming from just winning would make the most sense

[hoary swift]

Beebo, brall, jin, oath, and myth. Are the only hunters who come to mind for it. And only 2 of those hunters are actually super op. So it isnt even about the hunter being strong

[hearty slate]

counterpoint what if you capped RP payout from those kills according to placement? .e.g. you hit a certain quota that's different if you die in 8th than 2nd etc, every kill matters up to the quota and if you wanted more to matter then... survive better I guess?

[hoary swift]

Fax, ob ranked was really bad

[scarlet ore]

Most effective way to climb wouldnt be to just go hyper aggro and try and optimize rp gains by killing everyone. Just placing high consistently is a big show of skill atleast in my eyes

And you probably get better variety cus you dont have to play the "chase everyone down for Rp" characters

But this is coming from a non rank enthusiast

[mossy ermine]

i agree on that one, if the system changes, you will still fight anyway in the end, just later on in the game when the circle is smaller and that there is a lot more teams

basically like scrims

this would probably fit more what im looking for in this game

[hoary swift]

If the lobbies were actually balanced id love to see kill points lowered. But there would still be the issue of how gm+ is set up
Which is why I really do not like how their handling gm+ rn.

[modern willow]

Yeah, this is philosophically similar to what the current system's going for. Will share with our services team.

[sonic smelt]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1362991505756913757

[scarlet ore]

If Im playing hudson to win, Im not chasing Kills and trying to frag out cus hudson cant really do that reliably. What I do is try and survive till end circle slow and steady. If the game favors kills more then the actual Win then I just end up climbing super slow.

[modern willow]

If the game favors kills more then the actual Win
What gives you this impression given the current Ranked ruleset?

[scarlet ore]

I havent played ranked in like months

I was kinda just word vomiting out an example

https://tenor.com/view/ehe-anime-gif-anime-girl-teehee-gif-27178660

[lucid vigil]

In ranked you're not looking for a top 1, you're looking for the most kills

[scarlet ore]

Yeah tell em khyzaros

[modern willow]

Lol..

Okay, so - the system has placement scoring and performance scoring.

[scarlet ore]

I havent checked the ranked ruleset in a bit and just expected it favored kills still and the "current ranked ruleset" wording made it seem like it changed at some point and I wasnt aware of it

Also been seeing this thing where Marvel rivals rolled out the "performance based scoring" for ranked and it evaporated the entire competitive integrity of that game.

[hoary swift]

On hudson specifically you just gotta learn to play for position really well when your whole team is dead. Even if your team is alive. You can't really play for the win cus you get like no rp and it sucks when that's how hudson should be played.

[lucid vigil]

i think it's because of many thing ppl play for kills and for not placement.

The queues are long, and it's easy to die on a hot drop. If you play for placement and safely you're gonna get +10-20 points

If you play for a hotdrop, you get instantly double red day one on the first fight, and snowball the whole lobby. The scaling of the shards destroy completely the mid game of SV, and playing for kills ensure you a top 1 with a total of +50-80 points.

[modern willow]

Placement scoring gives you:
1st: 40
2nd: 30
3rd: 25
4th: 20
5th: 15
6th: 10
7th: 10
8th: 10
9th: 5
10th: 5
11th: 0
12th: 0

In addition, there's performance scoring.

• You only receive credit for kills on teams you outlast.
• Teams that die frequently are worth fewer points.
• Each team's worth 12 RP, which is divided amongst their deaths.
• KIlls that occur later in the match are worth more points than early kills, since these are more strategically important.

And there's more detail in the patch notes, but basically - this was with the Eva patch.

[hoary swift]

I feel like with the only getting kill points if you outlive doesnt matter cus you can just wipe the team.

Unless they have a brall or jin just wipe them

[lucid vigil]

and for the ranked environment, shards are a real issue IMO, you get too much of them, and you can achieve too much snowball.

if i don't hotdrop, the first team i'm facing is one or two levels above me, statcheck me and it's gg

[scarlet ore]

Im quite sure they know about this issue and have a solve for it

[modern willow]

If you can wipe a team, sure. But placement in this world is still weighted the highest is my main point.

[hoary swift]

It does feel pretty bad when a myth just appears and is fucking double red and 3 taps your whole team

[sonic smelt]

In the future could leaderboards be split into the different classes? It's gonna be a lot harder for certain classes to get high lp compared to the others.

[scarlet ore]

I feel like that wouldnt need to be the case if rp was just given for placment and nothing else

[fervent parrot]

I've personally always preferred supervive when there aren't placement points / placement is weighted low, but I remember that across ranks placement points helped newer players or players who were more used to mobas feel more accomplished in their games

[modern willow]

I actually wanted this for other reasons, but it can be weird to classify who counts on the leaderboard (ex. how much of the class do you have to play?) Haven't brought it up in a while, though.

[lucid vigil]

Not really just killing two ppl, gives two shards, and that's already a lot in terms of snowball. not even speaking about rank points

it's also an issue with the redchest for example, you randomly get a red key on kill, you randomly find it near you, and you randomly get the BIS power for you. Another huge snowball factor that's random.

Day one boss giving an exotic is also something that i wish would be changed, giving gold power, not red ones.

TLDR : There's too much snowball, especially in ranked, and the bots are hated by the community because they give too much shards.

[scarlet ore]

But it isnt the only thing being weighed. Characters who have an easy time cleaning up teams just get more rp then others

[modern willow]

Yeah. Got this from a lot of shooter and BR players too. Seems to ultimately be a preference thing.

[fervent parrot]

yep, I imagine the right balance is just about meeting players where your target demographic are

[modern willow]

I have to jet for a dinner now that it's time, but feel free to keep dropping Ranked thoughts. Preference for folks who've spent a lot of time in the system (appreciate theory, just prefer receipts.)

[fervent parrot]

cya!

[sonic smelt]

Yeah it's definitely a bit hard to define what counts and what doesn't. It's be something nice for 1.0 but if it's not possible then I completely understand. Thanks for the response btw

[lucid vigil]

My current issues are (updated) :

• Brall LMB knockback
• Delay on Shrike shift, her ult not making her glide over the abyss.
• Beebo rolling many times in a row the same zeep, and it's beyond awful to play against
• Double tech
• Oath, Myth, Bishop and Carbine in general, way too strong compared with reset of the cast.
• Eva and Saros design, they are both boring to play against.
• The early, mid and late game of SV is blurry because how much snowball there is. Shards and Day one boss are part of the issue.
• Arena, make the circle close earlier (but not the overtime)
• Glider jet and grapple hook being on the same zone of the map. They are both super strong, and shouldn't be that close. (Immotek could get glider jet for example)

i'm yapping a lot, but i also want to say that i really like the tp changes on the latest patch, feels more fluid

and the silences make it balanced

(kinda)

[soft current]

Its worth mentioning allot that double techblade plays a big part in myth and bishops high powerlevel

oh yea i love the recall changes

gave it more utility and took away the oppresive part of it

[soft current]

Im curious, is the devteam aware about the tournament scoring system? I personally think it works very well but ofcourse that would require everyone in the lobby to be of same skilllevel, which is hard to do currently. We basically utilize this points system:

how happy is the devteam with the current ranked scoring system / are there any plans for changes to this on 1.0?

(Important to mention that i think the current ranked system works well, im just asking out of curiosity how the devteam sees it)

[reef pilot]

i think i qualify as someone who has spent a lot of time in the ranked system, so here are my thoughts:

• bots are too predictable/rewarding to land on. Everyone knows that bot teams dont move after picking a drop spot, and they pick weird locations. I have heard "lets land on those bots" from people of EVERY rank. getting brawlers and landing on bots = crazy snowball. it feels cheap and a lot of people feel scummy for doing it and then are punished because others have popped the loot pinata first.

• i think the current RP system is SO SO much better than the old one, and i feel like my RP gains are generally in line with my teams performance (not always.) imo kill points should scale with final placement. 5 kills at second place should be worth more than 5 kills and eleventh.

• at legend, you often get paired with low rank players who just straight up have a different goal in mind for the game. They are trying to cover their -15 RP ante and youre trying to cover -50. This creates friction as they will want to mill about and do things that could actually be considered "Winning Supervive Plays" (i.e. killing souls/farming creeps for one more item upgrade/securing a position for later) while the legend player is OBLIGATED to run towards every sound ping in order to cover their ante. I know this is a symptom of player count and matchmaking and falls under "1.0 should solve this" but maybe some kind of improved solo queue bonus when your teammates are much lower rank would be good.

• players do not understand when it is good to split on drop and when it is not. i have given up on trying to tell my teammates to stop splitting when we only have a few camps available to us. they go and take one of our three available camps on their own and now we are all stuck at level 4 with 1200g and are just worse off. not sure how to solve this but it is an issue right now that i think stems from splitting being so beneficial in the past.

[hoary swift]

probably should lower the cd of hudson's wires... 16 seconds is simply way too high for his main defense. especially considering how fucking easily they die now and the fact they don't even stay up for that long anymore either

[soft current]

amazing summary, ty!

[hoary swift]

i have no clue what got blocked and don't wanna try and figure it out. and the msg isn't even bad, so idk why it'd get blocked.

[jade jay]

My interpretation of why playing for kills feels better than playing for placement, is because a lot of us are in GM with 35-40+ ante's, which roughly matches what you get for winning. So in that case there is no climbing unless we're killing, and if we can't expect to get 1st every game then we need to be getting a lot, and at some point the majority, of our points from kills in order to make funny number go up reliably.

[soft current]

i think regarding the rank system, bonuses should be removed / greatly lowered for ranks gold-diamond

it should feel rewarding to hit ranks such as diamond, right now its just handed out for free

[hoary swift]

Honestly I think bonus should simply get reworked not removed. Or like add more stuff to give bonuses

[soft current]

More bonuses??

[ionic glacier]

but people also ahve really high ante cost becuase of skill diffrence. If you have lobbies, that are evenly skilled, then people wont be able to climb to the current rank amount. So the kill to placement ratio points will be better. And you will find a soft cap where consistency is more important than running down lobbies.
If you change the system now, when the player count is low, then it will inflate the system when the playercount is hopefully bigger. Its a double edge sword, and i would rather have a system prepared for many people rather than fewer people.

[hoary swift]

I mean like when you do good plays. Like bonuses would be perfect to give more rp to someone who for example carried hard or did some 1v3s. Then they could have bonuses for every rank just no "killing higher ranked players" bonuses for gm+ or smth like that.

Or like smth for doing crown plays and stuff. Some people have wanted rp for this. But I do see issues with that benefiting specific hunters, mainly jin and brall.

[onyx kraken]

I’ll actually chip in here and saying that you’re correct to pick up on the balance of lobbies. TOs have the opportunity (should they wish) to hand seed the twelve teams one-by-one.

Matchmaking will always work to set parameters which will undoubtedly leave a wider margin straight off the rip.

But perhaps the most important thing to consider is the purpose of the points. In tournaments, these points are a fixed amount to incentivise placement as much as kills (if not more currently). Teams can evaluate how aggressive they want to be on any given game.

In Ranked, a lot of players crave progression and development of play style. If you rat to high placement, you can easily make Platinum. Start finding kills regularly on top of that and Diamond/Master is achievable. The ante changing makes a huge difference which is why the current BattleHub system wouldn’t work so well.

The ante would be eaten up way too quickly OR would require major adjustment.

[crimson elk]

Bonus perfomance RP is a "meh" feature, it helps nobody, the grinding is really starting at master (change my mind), I understand the incentive and dopamine thingy but actually Bronze to Master is a question of time not a skill thing.

And https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1370722303326949417

I stopped playin' ranked since. A lot of high rank player also stopped because we all want to play with friends, i also know some of good players just jump at start in abyss in no fill to lower their rank and still play with friends.

[hoary swift]

We can't really tell if this is cus of players base tho. Like we can assume it is(like a lot of people do) or assume it isn't(like you seems to be doing). Like if there was more than just 2 different elos(high vs low elo) then it likely wouldnt just be a showcase of time. But we don't know if that is true or not, and we can't until there are more players. The main point would be to not go -10 in gm+ for a 3rd place or smth when you hard carry. bonuses for gm+ is another thing.

[hoary swift]

so one thing i've been wandering for a while is, why does brall need more than one way to reset his ult? and along with that it's pretty easy to miss if he resets his ult with rmb. let him reset his ult on kill, sure who cares. but why does he need another way to reset it? it feels pretty unnecessary.

[hoary swift]

I've also always been wandering if brall truly needs the invulnerability on his ult. I get it's meant to be more of a survival ult but the invulnerability simply makes it super unfun to play against.

[trim sail]

I've been thinking about these two things too. The invincibility makes sense since he's melee and it gives him more choices with how he uses it, but the reset on RMB for his ult I think is too much.

Brall ult is also indicative of a bigger problem IMO where the best use case for a lot of ults is to use them in a way where you can't fail while using them, like using Brall/Celeste ults just for invincibility or using Bishop/Beebo ults to run away.

[molten ore]

I'm in the camp that it's a short enough cooldown and a dtrong enough ability that it should have no resets whatsoever.

[boreal torrent]

Why are we talking about nerfing brall

[mighty copper]

always a hot topic

[sudden dock]

you're right. we should be talking about nerfing oath :p

[knotty gorge]

Brall is not even that good. B tier at best. Inflated only due to solo queue hard prioing who can run the fastest. Nerfing him is pointless without first Nerfing myth oath carbine. Removing his invuln would send him to F tier immediately.

[molten ore]

Probably because no amount of nerfing has made him engaging to play against in the slightest lmao

[hoary swift]

This kind of isn't even wrong. Shiv's ult is meant to be used to get kills and increase her movement. Yet sometimes you just use it for the 2 dashes, doesnt feel right but you can and its pretty good in certain cases.

[hoary swift]

This is not about whether he is strong. Its about how unfun he is to fight. Supposedly if you say literally anything about something infun to fight on a character you're calling them op. But I'm not and you're just assuming.

[hoary swift]

I think the reset on kill with ult is good tbh. Creates some cool moments. And like I think the ult should be used to like get kills, the invulnerability encourages it to sometimes simply be used for the invulnerability and not the kill and reset part.

And then rmb kill resetting is something that encourages kind of the problem im saying even more.

[jade jay]

What do you mean by “can’t fail”?

[trim sail]

In the examples I listed, they have a hitbox, but also utility that doesn't require hitting your opponent, and you're incentivized to use it in a way where you don't have to try and hit your opponent because of how messed up their risk/reward ratio is.

In Bishop's case, it's so hard to land her ult and her builds so damage-focused that she's incentivized to save it as a low-risk escape option instead of an engage tool. Beebo is similar, except his has a shorter cooldown paired with shorter dashes. Brall has gratuitous resets that means he doesn't need to purposefully hit you, and Celeste's ult is entirely useless to try and hit because opponents escape its range too easily unless you use powers to deny opponents its counterplay. Outdated's example of Shiv is also relevant here.

Heck, I'd put Oath and Myth in here too, the former because his ult is so wide it's hard not to hit it and the latter because you get three shots and it's arguably balanced around hitting two of them. Then Ghost constantly uses his ult as a zoning tool against melees that doesn't comnect on people, the list goes on.

[hoary swift]

I feel like this will happen to some extent regardless. Like if they want ults to feel good to hit i feel like this is an issue that will always be the case. They can try to avoid it but idk if they could actually get rid of it

[jade jay]

Those sound like pretty low reward use cases to me though.

[trim sail]

Yes, but their risk/reward ratio is so messed up that some of these low reward use cases are so low risk that they're preferable over taking risks for an inconsistent reward. That's the problem.

[molten ore]

I'd generally agree with this. A lot of ults feel super int to try to use their intended way. I'd much rather have a consistent small reward than an inconsistent large reward. Hence why Ghost ult is just a zoning tool for me. maybe occasionally a combo if i hit a good wall stun.

[hoary swift]

i'm a little frustrated so bare with me.

Playing hudson is honestly one of the most frustrating things ever to me, he's the only character i really like in this game yet playing him drives me insane.

I have no effective way to do anything in a fight and feel more like a spectator in any fight i'm in. I try to control fights with my wires then i find that literally does not matter, at all.
if i get dived at fucking all i have to just pray my team can keep me alive long enough for my to get to a better position. hudson's tools have such long cooldowns for literally no fucking reason. why does a single killing ult need a fucking 50 second cooldown? shiv's, one of the strongest ults in the fucking game, has the same cd and that makes literally no sense.

if someone literally dashes or walks into my wires they should get punished, yet why tf do they just not? half the time they just walk out of them like it's fucking nothing, or they just sit there and delete me, then if i try and use my dash to you know dodge their damage for some reason my fucking turn rate is so slow i can't focus anyone unless i literally dash directly at them or directly away. which if i do them most of the time i'll just die.

i've been trying to find a use for the knockback on dash, and i've found literally non. the only use for it is knocking people into koba heart, which non spun up dash is better for that. and the only use for spun up dash knockback is knocking people out of boombox. very specific uses that never really happen. then the damage on dash is impossible to use without just dieing now. it was possible to use it on old hudson to finish kills but that just isn't a thing anymore.

i still cannot find any effective playstyle that works for hudson. he used to have 2 main playstyles, dive and flank; but both of those have been nuked off of the planet. dive i can get not wanting to be a thing. but flank? hudson just should be one of the best flank hunters, since having a big gunner staring at you while his team is also staring at you and you're getting squished should be a threat, but it just isn't. he just explodes now and does nothing useful with flanks. his wires die so easily using them to trap during a flank is just impossible. since they'll just get destroyed before anyone gets trapped by them.

and hudson's level 4s are... really bad. the dash one is only useful for the 25% extra hover time it gives(for some reason this isn't in the description anymore). then the other 2 feel super underwhelming.

[scarlet ore]

Talk today or nah?

Everyone watching summer game fest?

[nocturne glacier]

i'm watching SGF but will be here

super hyped for the supervive 1.0 release date at SGF!

https://tenor.com/view/made-up-making-things-up-misinformation-spreading-misinformation-lying-gif-5615616319157116451

[modern willow]

Happy Friday. 🙂

[sturdy coyote]

Happy Friday!

Cant stay and I'm like 90% sure You cant answer the question I had lol

[modern willow]

In playtest too.

Hahaha, probably.

[sturdy coyote]

Its what I pinged you about in the creator cord, lol

[modern willow]

Oh, I'll take a look.

[nocturne glacier]

heyo jess! hope the china test has been going well

[scarlet ore]

Hello

[prisma bane]

hello jess

[modern willow]

Got 4th. 🥲

Hey!

[prisma bane]

this clip here https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV17uTuz9ESH/?spm_id_from=333.1387.homepage.video_card.click has something very interesting about joule at around 2.40m

can we expect some news about that next patch?

[modern willow]

Mostly focusing on any issues players run into with the CN playtest, but cautiously optimistic. Real test is going to be how it continues.

Checking clip now.

Yeah, these are mild spoilers, but look forward to next patch. 🙂

[prisma bane]

okay cool

[scarlet ore]

Is there any spesific topic to go over today or is it just random stuff

[modern willow]

No specific topics - happy to just chill. Next patch is incoming.

[nocturne glacier]

next patch hype

[prisma bane]

since thats the case, is there a list of hunters that u guys are taking a look at rn?

with that i mean to make changes and not bugfix or balance changes

[scarlet ore]

I had a large Yapp about hudsons power fantasy and how it doesnt align with his character design and gameplay

[prisma bane]

if i get what you wrote over there is that u want hudson to be less like kog maw and maybe more like urgot

[scarlet ore]

Kind of
More like Heavy from tf2
Big guy with minigun

[sturdy coyote]

Ill take that as a "Yea not answering that <3"

[scarlet ore]

Urgot is an apt comparison as well

[modern willow]

Lol, I haven't read it yet. Our playtest goes from 1-4 on Fridays. I'm a little spotty until then a bit.

[nocturne glacier]

Something small to say, I've actually spent a lot more time playing solo vive, it's felt really good recently with the balance changes

Stuff like tuning Oath ult down helped a lot

[solemn idol]

I've heard that the Vampiric Helmet is available in the Chinese version of the game is that true

[prisma bane]

i mean he is durable , has a minigun, plays in a solo lane and provides some utility to his team

which are some of your callouts on the post you wrote

[sturdy coyote]

It involved the footage from the Bibi thing, involving a certain ability on a certain hunter

[scarlet ore]

I did enjoy playing Urgot as well. Just Udyr was my beloved

[prisma bane]

i can see why

big hairy dude that runs at people

[scarlet ore]

Bulky high dmg low mobility. Just like how I like em 😋

Waiting on an immobile melee character to come into vive

Just import Udyr into vive

[prisma bane]

i wonder if 1 day we will see a character with no dashes like him and just some way to walk/hover over abyss

he is probably the 4th character in my list of the ones i would love to see in vive

[scarlet ore]

A momentum based character who runs around would be very fun

https://tenor.com/view/im-the-juggernaut-bitch-rage-angry-gif-16084327

https://tenor.com/view/kitty-pryde-xmen-shadowcat-juggernaut-gif-13588119

[prisma bane]

okay make megaboar playable

[scarlet ore]

Most op character

Having more immobile character does mean TC would have to... give them alternative defensive tools from just dashes...

[nocturne glacier]

We're able to talk about the contents of the Chinese playtest here too right? Or we saving that for the uninitiated

[prisma bane]

remove hudson dash and make him like sgt hammer from hots

[scarlet ore]

Kinda imagined Tychus more

[prisma bane]

i mean he is so slow it feels more like hammer where its best to just stop and hit

kiting is a dps loss

[scarlet ore]

It would honestly be preferable to the current way of just playing like a bitch and dashing away at the slightest hint of danger

Loops back around to him not being able to hold his ground due to lack of defensive tools besides the dash.

If I could I would 100% trade out Hudsons dash for an Airblast built in.

[prisma bane]

they could give him a form of fortnite soul since he is always gathering metal scraps to fix his armor

[scarlet ore]

Give the airblast projectile reflect properties and you got a really interesting defensive tool.

[prisma bane]

or make him slowly upgrade his armor overtime idk

[scarlet ore]

Something more to do with his armor would be cool but rn the armor system wouldnt support it Imo

[nocturne glacier]

Yeah I feel like I fight Hudson and my gameplay is just "get on top of him and stay on top of him" because he crumbles at those ranges

and he doesn't have many ways to peel

[scarlet ore]

Direct opposite to literally every other "Minigun" character Ive ever played 😭

[prisma bane]

maybe some landmines would fit both his fantasy and kit while also solving this issue

[scarlet ore]

Sorry for making the chat always about Hudson

🥲

[prisma bane]

its interesting thinking about ways to make a character better tbh

[mighty copper]

Make Joule do more resets and less damage per reset and shes good and not so frustrating to play against

[scarlet ore]

Trust me ive thought about ways to make hudson better

[prisma bane]

shes getting changes next patch

[scarlet ore]

I basically didnt eat yesterday and just sat on my pc for 14 hours thinking and writing stuff down...

[mighty copper]

yay

[modern willow]

You can, though the patches are somewhat desynced, so it might be a little confusing for folks. Only for a few days, though.

[scarlet ore]

I love hudson an unhealthy amount

[nocturne glacier]

I think to some extent that's okay for melees to counter Hudson, but he's very polarizing with it

[prisma bane]

i know but its cool to discuss this kind of thing

[scarlet ore]

Im honestly obsessed with character Kit design

[prisma bane]

i probably could do the same for felix

but he is not in such a bad spot rn

he just doesnt fit his fantasy/role very well

[mighty copper]

one of these days i took an entire morning doing supervive general analysis its on feedback tho

[scarlet ore]

Yeah for sure, melee Should have an edge on hudson.
Similar to Urgot in league.
They do have a range advantage and their job is to keep melees just out of their optimal range.

Thats why Hudson kinda needs a way to keep enemies in his effective range

[nocturne glacier]

Alright cool, I just wanna say THAT LIL WARMUP THING YOU CAN DO IN QUEUE LOOKS REALLY COOL and I'm so hyped for it, I am going to be logging in at the worst times to play that

the lil free-for-all thing

[mighty copper]

I hope they add the option to pratice in the real map tho

[scarlet ore]

I feel a decent chunk of the current roster doesnt either.

[prisma bane]

yeah shrike is an example that comes to mind

[scarlet ore]

Will say IT DOES kinda make sense why. I feel they havent had the most time to really think about the characters. Some feel very "Slap it in and fix later"

[mighty copper]

It's the details

[nocturne glacier]

i don't know if you guys ever plan to do this but if the FFA thing has an "all chat" i'd turn that place into a chat room real quick

constant yapping

[scarlet ore]

Which is completely understandable when making a game.
You probably dont want to make super intricate and in depth character kits when your game can change on a whim.

You want something that serves its purpose well enough until you have the games systems in check. then you can start going ham on Kit design.

[prisma bane]

i agree but still weird how felix is not really a frontliner and shrike isnt truly a sniper

[scarlet ore]

Atleast how id think of it

[mighty copper]

fr

they have to take one fantasy and like do everything around It, Hudson's fantasy is a Minigun? Make everything about him around a Minigun

[prisma bane]

i agree and i think some work on lvl4s could help with that

[scarlet ore]

Maybe a little limited way of thinking but its a good start.

[prisma bane]

like if level 4s dived deeper in one of the roles your character can perform

[mighty copper]

like I said in #1379256389083336785 message

[prisma bane]

hardly disagree with the bring back squads thing

[scarlet ore]

I would love if Hudsons Lvl's switched up how you wish to play.
One for more controlly playstyle with wires and ult
One for more frag out Shift + rmb style

[prisma bane]

but the general idea about abilities having more weight is interesting

[scarlet ore]

IT does make sense for a character based game for the abilities to be impactful...
and for a 3 player teams it comes to surface more Imo

[modern willow]

Yeah, we talked about it. It's fast-paced, so maybe not too much talking time. I'm into it, though.

[nocturne glacier]

It reminds me of my TF2 days in community servers making friends and I think that's really cool

[mighty copper]

they need to add this rlly soon tbh

[lucid vigil]

Hey @modern willow i saw you answered Tom Kick about Shrike and her states and potential buffs/QoL changes in the previous dev talk.

Is it something that's currently discussed in intern ?
Do you need some feedback and ideas for this ?

[mighty copper]

or rework it

or idk, more player-needs-to-make-decisions-game-design pls

[sudden dock]

curious how Celeste is faring being mostly a sustain damage character with Eva being added. I was playing her again recently to realize that her ult has the longest base cooldown in the game (80 seconds) I'm not sure if this is backed up by much but it feels like the swap to trios made her a worse pick.

[prisma bane]

would not have high hopes for it

[modern willow]

There's been a long discussion around it. We've seen the ideas that have come up here for Shrike, so think we're good. If there's new callouts, feel free - but no worries.

[mighty copper]

me neither but its a hot topic tho

[prisma bane]

i know

[mighty copper]

Do we have some updates on Saros fixes?

[prisma bane]

i have been hoping for new level 4s for felix for a while now

they are not bad numbers wise but i would much rather pick something that really changes the way i play like bishop rmb

[lucid vigil]

ok ok, i think my main 3 hope for her are :

• No delay on shift
• Ult makes her glide like Void Shift if above abyss or just not fall down.
• Her bird (Q) gives full circle radius when deployed for 1sec and then it comeback to normal (blocked by walls)

[shadow salmon]

i think bare minimum the vision bird (flying above the terrain) should see on high ground. kinda annoying when you throw it out to scout and its just stuck on lowground and cant see anything (and its pretty impossible to aim it accurately if youre trying to throw it outside your camera reach)

[modern willow]

Eva doesn't look like she's crowding Celeste out, in either presence or power. She looks fairly stable right now. I do think players know how to play against Celeste more effectively at high elo, and that affects how impactful she is by a lot.

Eva is pretty popular generally, it's just not impacting Celeste presence I would say.

[sturdy coyote]

Hard against no delay on shift, but the other 2 are fine ideas

[scarlet ore]

Can I ask how much do you value player perception around characters?

[mighty copper]

If It fits with the data, I think very much

[nocturne glacier]

Some abilities feel very flowchart-y or fire-and-forget with little variance in how you use them and I think that's super unfortunate

[prisma bane]

not really a shrike player but what would you think if they moved from the 2shot passive and focused more on the bonus damage on range side of her?

[shadow salmon]

2 shot is everything 🥰

[nocturne glacier]

Playing a lot of Felix, I really don't like his RMB in its current state, it's either you build him to cosplay Shrike or on every other build your RMB feels like "That Button You Press When The Enemy Is Ignited"

[prisma bane]

hard disagree on that but thats because i dont like one billion damage on one singular ability

[shadow salmon]

😿

[scarlet ore]

I really dislike the dash knockback on hudson.

[prisma bane]

same reason i dont like joule passive and ghost nade

[mighty copper]

Shrike is kinda a problem for new players cause for them its frustrating to play against her

[modern willow]

We look at it every patch. Will say that Discord isn't always representative of what's mentioned in surveys for example, and across regions.

[prisma bane]

can you share the general perception of eva?

[scarlet ore]

Well if the game gets a very big audience then we will see the general sentiment pretty easily

[sudden dock]

I've seen a lot of lower skilled players particularly frustrated with Eva and I worry that with certain characters really struggling to interact / kill her orbs (not as big of a problem in high elo) newer people might get frustrated by her, so I'm curious too

[modern willow]

What player perception also isn't 1-1 with what people say - it's also what they do.

[prisma bane]

its what i would imagine

[scarlet ore]

Imo just having a characters kit be all in on one thing tends to be very volatile. And often boring.

[prisma bane]

for veterans the frustrating part is the heal/damage output on something that doesnt really requires skill

[sudden dock]

my frustration with Eva hasn't been "Eva is strong" but "why did I pick crysta / jin / etc knowing Eva would probably be in this game"

[prisma bane]

the sentiment gets stronger the more you play arena gainst her

[mighty copper]

the frustrating part is to play in arena with no antiheal

[scarlet ore]

To me seeing Healing out pace dmg just gives me a gut feeling of incorrect

Unless its a rare thing

[mighty copper]

and if your comp doesnt have antiheal Eva do 1v3 in trios

[prisma bane]

i agree

thats why some hunters are a balance nightmare at their current iterations

[mighty copper]

Make lvl 4 skills choices a thing onegaishimasu

[scarlet ore]

Good thing they are iterations and arent set in stone 🙃

[prisma bane]

well we are in beta after all

gotta hope things change for the better

[mighty copper]

yep

they gonna do

[prisma bane]

healing and anti heal has been a hot topic for a while now

[mighty copper]

big hopes here since project Loki announcement on youtube

[modern willow]

I get the sense the real request was that you had Eva sentiment to share, haha. But Eva's maintained popularity for a while, even at her weakest. She's been beloved from the start, so would be careful about changing her kit.

[prisma bane]

i kinda would like to see the hots approach to roles but i cant be sure if it would fit supervive

[scarlet ore]

Interesting thing on player percetion ive noticed from games like Helldivers and Monster hunter.
Old players in monster hunter complain the game is boring and too easy. New players say the game is ridiculously hard
Kinda same thing happening in Helldivers 2

[modern willow]

I haven't seen Eva mains feel like they're not being masterful in their feedback about her.

Most of the Eva feedback has been playing against frustrations, which is related but different.

[prisma bane]

there was some of that yeah, but im kinda surprised at her popularity

[scarlet ore]

But when they do actually make the game harder you suddenly have all these people saying the games too hard

[modern willow]

Think the truth is that not everyone will like every Hunter, too. Everyone has different tastes.

[prisma bane]

i would guess its because the easier to pilot a hunter the easier it is to react to it and therefore you need to develop more awareness over what you are doing in the game

[mighty copper]

I'm not so surprised If you know what I mean

[modern willow]

An eternal dilemma.

[prisma bane]

so its not that they think eva is challenging just that it takes skill to be competitive with her

[nocturne glacier]

That's not true, the SUPERVIVE community thinks as a hivemind. We're part of one entity

[prisma bane]

yeah

[sturdy coyote]

When every hunter is different, not everyone will like all of them

[prisma bane]

just got a different idea from the 1st teaser of her and got disappointed with what her kit ended up being

[lucid vigil]

Another thing id like to discuss, is Beebo.

For me Beebo is not OP, it's just the chain cc output he can do that makes him just not fun to play against.
Especially when it's around his RMB, which is most of the time pure RNG.

rolling 2 ice or fire in a row, and you can't play the game. Roll the 1% ? you're most likely dead.

It's was "fine" before Beebo got a change 1 or 2 month ago, now he can spam everything on ur face

[mighty copper]

It would be fire to have like some dev's posts while testing new things like a beebo that spawns his ult like snowball avalanche

[fervent parrot]

YOO did i miss chat

[nocturne glacier]

nope

you're just in time

[sturdy coyote]

Steeel going

[prisma bane]

the ground duration on the iceblock is just insanity

[sturdy coyote]

I'm about to bounce though, getting some fancy ass food

[modern willow]

Nice. Enjoy!

I have 10 minutes too, but because of a meeting.

[fervent parrot]

ms safelocked
Please tell me more about the group finding system china has
I'm very interested 👀

[prisma bane]

felix into beebo is just a nightmare

[sturdy coyote]

Sea food

[fervent parrot]

I've been told that this might be a separate system for cn since they don't have discord tho

[modern willow]

No groupfinding, yeah.

There's other things incoming next patch, though.

[fervent parrot]

👀

[mighty copper]

👀

[lucid vigil]

as much as Shrike on her shift, but Beebo can spam it without limits

[nocturne glacier]

BIG HYPE NEXT PATCH

BIG

hype

[mighty copper]

some spoiler?

[sudden dock]

am I right that in a talk or post on here there was reference to a project to look at lvl 4 abilities broadly, and if so would we expect changes like that to come with 1.0 if they're coming? my favorite soul is XP soul but it's strength / coolness varies a lot depending on what hunter I'm on

[prisma bane]

yeah its so fun to get bonked in the face then he rolls ice cube into 1%

[modern willow]

We've made a few Level 4 changes, but we're focusing on other major aspects for 1.0 because it's going to be more impactful and we want to get it right.

[nocturne glacier]

:o

[solemn idol]

Are we getting Vampiric Helmet on 1.0 I'm asking for a Friend...

[sudden dock]

okay I see ty

[prisma bane]

very interactive

[knotty gorge]

Are we going to be able to duo queue at 1.0?

[fervent parrot]

will there be social system changes for 1.0? O.o

[mighty copper]

Would love to see some changes in the friends list

[solemn idol]

🧛 ⛑️

[prisma bane]

i see you talking so much about it

what were the evolutions for that?

[nocturne glacier]

it was before evolutions

[sturdy coyote]

There were none

It was litterally just Vamp and health

[solemn idol]

It never had for the life of my loved one was cut short

[prisma bane]

thats just sad

[sturdy coyote]

It was back when helms and blades took different spots

[solemn idol]

But I made a list of evolutions for it a long time ago!!!!!!!!!!!

[nocturne glacier]

My cope for next patch is the potential of a grace period on Felix Q reset we briefly talked about last week, and the FFA mode china's test has

[solemn idol]

If they ever needed inspiration to bring her back

🙏

[sturdy coyote]

And there were 5 helms?

[prisma bane]

felix would love to have one of those

[solemn idol]

You forgot to mention its the only weapon combination missing in the game!!!!!!!!!!

Theres 4 blades and only 3 helmets

[sturdy coyote]

You are neglecting Tech visor and mana hat

How could you

[solemn idol]

To be fair vision would never be a real stat

and Mana hat just gave just a lot of mana And that was it.................

[modern willow]

Won't comment on what 1.0 entails generally so that the announce can be exciting. Talking about it here in bite-sized increments probably takes the air out of the launch and not the best way to share the changes.

[solemn idol]

Imagine an equipment that gives you the missing HP + Omnivamp stat combo

like some sort of Vampire Helmet

[nocturne glacier]

1.0 gonna hit us like a Mega Cluster Nuke

[sturdy coyote]

Hey, like we were saying earlier, Leaks are bad

[sturdy coyote]

They are gunna put a gravestone with the helm on it

[solemn idol]

Like if you agree that Vampiric Helmet should be in the launch

[scarlet ore]

Will say when there is almost nothing to go off of i have a hard time being excited

I like knowing roughly what I am looking forward to

[modern willow]

Understand the trade.

[solemn idol]

I am looking forward to this

[mighty copper]

wow

[scarlet ore]

The little leaks I have seen did get me looking forward to it

[solemn idol]

wish it had more pixels

But it was the best I had saved from her.....

[mighty copper]

one leak here and there makes more hype imo

[sturdy coyote]

Leaks are bad

[nocturne glacier]

I think it's better to let them present it in the way they intend to

Don't soften the punch kinda deal

[solemn idol]

we could leak the Vampiric Helmet's inclusion in the patch notes

[scarlet ore]

Gonna bring up monster hunter.
They have a bad habbit of revealing almost everything in trailers. So I skip a few every time to have something to look forward to. Got a few good surprises from Wilds cus of that

Like final boss and a few leading up to it

[mighty copper]

one print of the left pinky of a new Hunter is the ultra hype

[scarlet ore]

Which where the hypest parts of the game

[prisma bane]

can we expect some small infos about it before 1.0? Or some playtest that involves more than just content creators?

[modern willow]

We'll share more before 1.0.

[nocturne glacier]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1152317349614080051/1375700535717396510/supervive-nuggets-sauce-speed.gif

[mighty copper]

big hypes already

[nocturne glacier]

WE WAIT PATIENTLY FOR PEAK

[modern willow]

Alright - with that, have to step out to catch up with the marketing crew.

[solemn idol]

Have fun......

[modern willow]

Thanks for stopping by all.

[nocturne glacier]

Have a good one Jess! Thank you for stopping by!

[modern willow]

Happy Friday!

[mighty copper]

ultra big hype

[mighty copper]

Happy Friday ms safelocked

[solemn idol]

those who Vampire their Helmets...

[scarlet ore]

When the helmet... vamps

[solemn idol]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1347711022856798238/1347735994258165882/vampirichelmet.gif?ex=68443834&is=6842e6b4&hm=563b53b07cb80a2ef7b26c8c7d23a7664ed78cb054dba4574ec3306df9a3db07&=&width=320&height=240

[hoary swift]

This is kind of something I've been asking for for a while.

Max wires for controlling playstyle.
Max rmb for a more damage focused playstyle.
Then maxing dash could be like a dive playstyle.

Rn hudson's level 4s dont really feel impactful to me.

Also I missed talk D:

1 random thing that has been annoying me is how power reliant hudson is. It feels like I have to drop in vwry specific ways or wait until the global shop favors Hudson otherwise I'm just useless that entire game. And it sucks cus im not always the drop leader, and even when I am the drop patch doesnt always go to where I need it to. And sometimes deopping just for hovers or glider jets isnt the best thing I can do. And even with those powers I don't necessarily feel that strong, I just need them to make hudson even slightly good.

Every hunter should at the very least function without powers. But it feels like hudson just doesn't.

[tame spoke]

Safelocked, what is TC's stance on schmoovement currently? It was heavily nerfed but that was from the squads era so wondering if you are continuing this path

[nocturne glacier]

They brought back most of it I think

Except the wind rings

[soft current]

they should add this to EU but everytime you try to open it, it tells you that you can only soloque 🔥

[hoary swift]

so um... when is blink nerf? it was acknowledged months ago but has still not been touched.

[merry tree]

hello what is sgf and when is it? ty

sgf has happened? so is there a 1.0 release date yet

[fervent parrot]

Summer games fest and it was yesterday

Supervive was not at it

[nocturne glacier]

was joking yea

[mossy ermine]

why does jin left click gives no momentum in the air ?

this kills jin as a caracter

[soft current]

LOL

[mossy ermine]

@undone sierra why are we question marking ?

[quaint cedar]

Crazy how Jin is such a shit character and still manages to get nerfed every patch 💀

[modern willow]

Posted in Jin chat - we're looking into this now.

[soft current]

jin op need more nerfs

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-fishing-lake-pond-boat-gif-9638578035609960749

[modern willow]

Wondering if I should make a new thread..

[cunning terrace]

Probably not a bad idea to make a new thread for your birthday yeah

[modern willow]

We'll call it "Happy Birthday Warm-Up".

[cunning terrace]

oh yeah! I could warm up to that idea

[mental haven]

Sounds fancy

Warmups been a great hit :)

[hoary swift]

So we making new one? I can put my simply hudson complaint there instead then

[modern willow]

Yeah, I think I'll make a new one.

[lucid vigil]

[potent rapids]

[modern willow]

New thread up: https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1383221735037341759.