Season Zero: Carbine arrives, Void & Joule Buffs, & more!

[nocturne glacier]

WAIT I'M NOT DELUSIONAL

it doesn't work on level 3 shift or R

but it works on level 1 shift and R

[sudden dock]

i havent read all the patch notes / watched all the talks forgive me

[nocturne glacier]

gonna stop flooding this chat with cursed glacial comet

[knotty gorge]

I just think the item system could be more fleshed out in general so there is build diversity. Maybe a bruiser type of items (3rd category) to enable different play styles. Because right now it feels like there is only one correct choice and it's double gamba for BIS on almost all characters

[nocturne glacier]

gotta write up a better bug report

[modern willow]

Will share the Jin notes with the team. Think we're glad Jin's slowed down some, but I do like some of the callouts here.

Also this system is bugged and sometimes locks you out of mechanics even when leveled up (max level) but I haven't been able to replicate it outside of custom games.
Can you share more here? Can take a look at it.

[molten ore]

Oh I wanted to share that last week I had a game where I dropped for masamune and then high rolled a warp into soulstealer. I had double red items at level 5.

It wasn't really fair for other people in the lobby.

This is my petition for the soulstealer warp to be treated like any other item and scale it's base stats with item levels

[knotty gorge]

Yes. When I play sometimes the announcer is saying things like "you can stagger camps!" Stuff like that. And in 2 cases during scrims I was forced to play without item evolution and only one power. I have no idea how to replicate it at all. It seems like something is telling the server my acc is not leveled up when it is. No idea what causes it really. But it has happened more than once to me 😭.

[nocturne glacier]

I personally think that's fine

mostly because RNG in a BR is good

but i wouldn't cry for its removal

(tbh I think Supervive lost a lot of its RNG flavor and that kinda makes me sad)

[sudden dock]

i dont know if it was a bug but random mobs dropping powers was funny to see in clips

[pastel gate]

dont say this too loud. The discord will form an angry mob

[sudden dock]

a couple weeks ago

[nocturne glacier]

tom kick exotic GA

[sudden dock]

i really like this patch all things considered, coming back to the game right when it came out

[nocturne glacier]

i'll say it louder for the people in the back

I liked the RNG

[sudden dock]

carbine is cool

[nocturne glacier]

[pastel gate]

https://tenor.com/view/gritito-gif-17274376822241272426

[nocturne glacier]

carbine is awesome

[full crypt]

#1367999327405871194 message I think a lot of people would appreciate open communication on this from TCG now considering the game is dipping below 1000 players and you've announced no new content until 1.0, the game should at least feel good for the players playing it now and it straight up doesn't at this point.

[pastel gate]

ya I think a certain level of rng is required for the game to be fun over a long period of playing

[nocturne glacier]

I feel Supervive lost quite a lot of "on-the-fly" theorycrafting outside of like, vaults and supply drops, and that made me sad

like in other BRs ala Apex or Fortnite, you get excited to see a gun you've been looking for or whatever

maybe some of your favorite attachments

i feel like in supervive i just buy the powers I want and buy the gear that's BiS

different games for sure

but it's something I think is really cool in BRs

[sonic smelt]

Is there ever going to be a rework or adjustment to knockbacks? It's been a pretty big issue with how inconsistent most of them are. Specifically talking about ghost, bishop, carbine, saros. Their knockbacks only apply a impulse/force which causes situations where people can dash as the knockback hits and mitigate it completely. Myth doesn't have this issue as her actually stuns people so I was wondering if other hunters could get this treatment as well? Sorry I know this isn't related to current discussion but wanted to post

[full crypt]

(respectfully, of course)

[molten ore]

Idk man I lucked into literally one shotting people day 1. That doesn't seem healthy to me. It completely bypasses the flow of scaling

[modern willow]

Yeah, this being a takeaway of the item is understandable (even with Anic's callouts.)

[nocturne glacier]

day 1 I think it's like +30AP +1% omnivamp as the stat difference no?

I could be misremembering

assuming no kills of course

like at the end of day 1 you probably have 2 blues

if not better

that being said it is 1 less item to upgrade

[mossy ermine]

What are the thoughts on carbine power level at the moment ?

[modern willow]

I'm realizing something about Glacial Comet...

[nocturne glacier]

yo?

[modern willow]

I had a real - spot the difference - moment. Thanks for describing everything, lol.

[sonic smelt]

To some extent I think it's kinda bs but at the same time it's kinda okay. But how often are you gonna get both those items in a game day one? It's pretty rare

[nocturne glacier]

lmfao, in what way? 👀

hi major

[sturdy coyote]

So, I had a really awesome 1v3 most wanted play last week, and it was so hype, and awesome that I had to stop playing for the night cause my heart was beating for a bit. The issue I am having is that those moments, don't seem to happen as much, and I realized that was a bit Too special and not as common as it should be.

Are there any plans to push more toward the BR style of the game with objectives and things to play around and having to think about third parties more, or will the game keep pushing toward more TDM Style. Cause I love the combat, but the moments dont really just come from the combat, but what is happening around the combat.

Also Happy Leif Erikson day @modern willow :P

[hazy forge]

AHHHH IM LATE TIME TO PLAY CATCH BUT HI EVERYONE AND HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESS

[modern willow]

We've made a call, but haven't announced.

[nocturne glacier]

oooh boy

[sturdy coyote]

But also, Man, Carbine is so fucking sick

[nocturne glacier]

Carbine is awesome

[sonic smelt]

Carbine is cool

[sudden dock]

his abyss fighting is better than i thought i just fought him and his bullets linger longer than i would have assumed

[hazy forge]

Im very intrigued to see the direction with items in general. I remember when I asked about it 3 weeks ago there wasn't much yall could reveal because cooking on it. Im really excited see how Hunter's will interact with whatever yall are cooking

[nocturne glacier]

[modern willow]

Sick. Glad you're liking him and the patch.

[sturdy coyote]

Sorry to come in swinging with a message like that lol

[hazy forge]

Naw you good homie, I think we were just touching on items a bit but you bring up a good topic as well with the BR focus/more randomization as well

[nocturne glacier]

I would love more BR elements, like more things to fight over

I think the vaults are okay with that, the hatchlings are good, but like supply drops are seldom used for that purpose, and I find a LOT of gear is simply purchased

[sturdy coyote]

Oh yea, I have some stuff to talk about with items as well, lol

Specifically certain variants being overshadowed by others IE BGH and the other quickblades

[mossy ermine]

He seems way to overtuned tho

[obtuse mural]

Hi @modern willow! I’ve been working on a detailed concept for a new hunter (including concept art and abilities, everything is almost done)
Would you be open to considering community-submitted ideas like this for the game’s future development? Or are you few hunters ahead for the future of the game?

[potent rapids]

there has been 2 concept hunter events

so im sure something like that will happen again

[hazy forge]

I know people usually submit that type of stuff under #🎨│fan-art alongside there being concept hunter events

[potent rapids]

maybe @mental haven can organize again

[fervent parrot]

jmo isn't on the discord and bidbood doesn't work at TC anymore, and the rest of TC staff are too busy rly

jess and maybe bchang are the only two who could probably host it but its rare for them to be around at good times for it at the same time

[modern willow]

This is probably as open as it gets outside of Fireside. There's players here who've been on the other side of this argument, noting that feels bad too because the games can feel too one-sided. Just want to call out that [the existing players should be happy] is complicated.

[fervent parrot]

i liked this clip btw

i would love to see more cool br moments too

it captured some magic of the game imo

[potent rapids]

rip

[modern willow]

Something I do appreciate about Fortnite that probably just makes this easier to feel is just - the weapon pool is big, so you feel that variety and desire to adapt more. We've kept to a specific pool for a while.

[fervent parrot]

supervive has a large weapon pool too o:

[sturdy coyote]

Here is the whole clip unedited btw

[hazy forge]

I don't remember where I saw this, but it was fire

[fervent parrot]

why would you post it when instead everyone can follow you on www.twitter.com/major_pleasure

[modern willow]

I have one more question I can probably answer - realizing I'm out of time for today. Reading...

[knotty gorge]

Well. Before squads removal it was Solo/Duo queue only which most people agreed was fine and a lot better than previous full stacking. But the change to fully solo queue is taxing at times. People making smurfs has also ballooned to get around this solo queue frustration. So it's hard to tell. I'm all for any decision y'all make to make the game more retentive for players though

[fervent parrot]

i'd love to hear an answer to major's question

[modern willow]

We're going to keep fixing our top bugs list, so I wouldn't be surprised if we hit these along the way.

[nocturne glacier]

I think it's this + the different rarities and the CONSTANTLY rotating pool. Weapons change, leave and get added all the time and fundamentally feel different

and I think that's really cool

[modern willow]

Looking a little strong, but we noted what his likely balance levers are before launch. Have an idea of what we'd adjust already.

[nocturne glacier]

I guess this is also what you mean by "kept to the same pool for a while" too but you get what I mean

[modern willow]

Sort of. Hard to explain without just sharing the 1.0 plan. But also, Happy Leif Erikson Day.

[modern willow]

We're already a few Hunters ahead! Thank you, though. Always happy when players get excited and make fan creations, though, for sure.

[nocturne glacier]

every time I hear anything about 1.0 I'm just

[hazy forge]

I'm very excited to see

[modern willow]

Yeah, agree with Anion on timing. Truthfully the team's time is probably best spent on focusing on the game.

[sonic smelt]

1.0 is gonna be spectacular

[modern willow]

More work to do, but we're enjoying it.

Alright, going to pause here for today - gotta jet.

[nocturne glacier]

Thanks for the talk Jess! Always a great time

[fervent parrot]

bye jess! have a good rest of your birthday!

[hazy forge]

Thank you for your time Jess! Greatly appreciate you and teh team with everything yall do

[nocturne glacier]

and a good rest of your Leif Erikson day!

https://tenor.com/view/vikings-minnesota-minnesota-vikings-skol-mnvikings-gif-26337415

[sonic smelt]

Thanks Jess

[mossy ermine]

I feel like making it so the auto reload takes way longer would make his power level more fair

also adjusting how his right click works to make it so you can react to it / counter it would be nice

Also in general he seems to have way to much damage especially in early game. Im getting almost 100 to 0 even tho he is just using autos

On top of that he also has 2 dashs that are in kinda low cd, that makes him hard to punish, especially for melee caracters

[potent rapids]

his only dmg source is his LMB so makes sense

defo needs a little nerf but not much

[hearty slate]

wasn't checking in earlier but Oatmeal told me about this revelation while we were playtesting the other game and holy fuck

[hearty slate]

also kinda related I guess >.>

[prisma bane]

please dont remove this just makes it more consistent including myth rmb on the list

its the only counterplay to the overwhelming amount of cc in this game

[noble harness]

is there any word on Saros fixes because this guy has been out for like 3 months and his primary damage skill (rmb) is still bugged to the point where you can not use the skill 3-4 times in 1 fight. His portal is still insanely inconsistent still and seeing Eva get mega hotfixed into being playable while Saros has only been nerfed despite very low pick and win rate is frustrating.

[hoary swift]

Damn I slept through it. My sleep schedule is so bad bro

[hoary swift]

Since talk already happened this likely won't be seen but ima put it here.

The wind ring nerf took out a lot of fun from wind ring abyss fights, and made them pretty dole and they never happen anymore. And it feels like the game is favoring faster hunters cus ever since the wind ring nerf slower hunters have struggled to get away and make any meaningful rotations. Like the wind ring nerf was such a huge indirect nerf to Hudson, it'd just so sad. Ik it's been here for a while but I still dislike it and want the old wind rings back.
https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1369821298510925855

This woukd help with clarity imo
https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1370331334232375398

[quaint cedar]

@modern willow are you guys aware of the bugs with carbines dash? primarily that the cooldown timers are bugged/not accurate AND HE DOESNT GET DASH RESET ON KILL.

[scarlet ore]

I think they are aware

[molten ore]

Dash reset on kill fix is next patch iirc

[sharp fractal]

yea crazy joule bug making her not get dash reset on kill either

[molten ore]

[scarlet ore]

[sudden dock]

[sonic smelt]

[crimson elk]

like beebo since last patch

[potent rapids]

pretty sure they said its getting fixed in one of the next patches

the dash reset thing

[covert marten]

while we're at it can we let shiv have two dash charges as her lvl 4 pretty please 🤩🤩🤩

[scarlet ore]

Can we give that to hudson as well

And make his rmb range a little longer too

[hoary swift]

I would way rather they make hudson's wires actually work and an actual threat

[molten ore]

I'm cool with trading some of her burst for more consistent output

Very not fun playing against Lord Vader's shiv that one shots you while being unhittable dash spamming.

[covert marten]

NOPERS 600 dmg with one m1 is why i play shiv

was joke lol

[molten ore]

Lmao gotchu

[covert marten]

damn

ive been 6pek mind controlled

wait

i mind controlled myself

[mossy ermine]

i beg

nerf carbine

[noble harness]

You spelled Jin wrong lil bro

[scarlet edge]

ok, are we talking about eva ridiculous damage/healing for a very low skill need ? I'am fine with the character healing a lot, it's in her design etc, but like the damage is just completly stupid, and you don't need any skill to make the character work, the difference between good and bad eva is ult and grad, but that's not the problem with the champion. Some character can't just kill eva in a 1V1, not enough damage

[hoary swift]

Imo they gotta nerf brall(remove his knockback, I will spam this >:), myth, oath, carbine, ghost, and eva. Quite a few outliers this patch for me.

[brisk rain]

that knockback I've been saying ever since it got readded to him

has never been a nerf

it's such a stupid broken ability that no other hunters have. Beebo has to charge up his knockback, Oath has to charge his knockback, but for some reason Brall gets to have that

[hoary swift]

I honestly don't think it's that broken just unfun to play against.

[nocturne glacier]

TBF Oath and Beebo's can wallstun, I get why they have to charge theirs

That being said, Brall's knockback is a nerf, in the sense of "it puts distance between you and Brall". But it's far more frustrating when you have cases like "I'm getting LMB'd out of my own Beebo Boombox", or "I'm getting LMB'd into Eva ult wall" or "I'm getting LMB edge guarded then RMB'd for dunk", or just how his LMB knockback fucks with momentum so it often messes up your dashes if you try to use them

this kind of interaction feels incredibly lame

I don't think it's that crazy but it is incredibly frustrating when these happen and you remember "this was supposed to be a nerf"

Also I'm still sad about Felix RMB getting its knockback removed for the exact same reason when it just made his kit even more binary and one-dimensional, yet Brall gets his back over a "nerf"

And Felix's RMB knockback came into play way less than Brall LMB knockback, making it the significantly less egregious contributor to the netcode bug that caused their removal in the first place

[brisk rain]

To this day I still disagree on how it's a nerf. They gave another mechanic that has utility to an already overloaded unit and called it a nerf. His LMB itself has six functions, like his kit is already beyond overloaded he should not have a utility

• damage
• mana regain
• bonus damage when hit in the center
• long ranged attack
• charge up passive
• knockback

I don't think there's another Hunter in the game that has this much function in their kit and this is just his LMB

So what was the apparent goal for Brall knockback?

• Reduce the pressure on Brall
• Reduce the guaranteed LMBs
• Weaken LMBrall
• Allows the enemy to have more ways to escape Brall (goodluck anyway he has 5 dashes)

What knockback does

• Cancel dashes
• Keep hitting people to the abyss
• Insane flexibility
• Allows easier hotspot hits on RMB

Felix's knockback on his RMB still removed btw because it was "too much" for his kit

[nocturne glacier]

It's fair to disagree it's a nerf, constantly knocking back a target from you is generally counterintuitive to his gameplay, but it pretty much only feels like a nerf in a vacuum, when you don't consider everything else he can do with that. The knockback means so much in other ways that kinda just takes away the point of bringing it back

[brisk rain]

I just really hate how stupidly buggy it is especially when dealing with dashes

[nocturne glacier]

mhm

It's super lame

[brisk rain]

and how it has been in the game for so damn long

you literally can't escape him, they keep nerfing mobility on all hunters and Brall is just unaffected just due to his overloaded af kit

nerf wind rings, nerf mobility, nerf dash gliding, but it doesn't matter when this guy has five dashes

[quaint cedar]

this might be the most crazy take ever

the character would be sooo strong instantly

[mental haven]

jesus christ

please no

[hoary swift]

I really cannot wait till this Wednesday when they either don't nerf brall or nerf him so slightly it doesn't even effect him. Cus they basically don't touch the hunter that actively makes the game unfun unless you're playing that hunter in another hunter that is op that they refuse to touch.

[mental haven]

If carbine isnt nerfed

[full crypt]

oath buffs inc

[brisk rain]

I hope not... Oath has been always the go-to for any type of content and he has never been bad. He was literally dominating the patch where his shield was bugged and L3 upgrade wasn't working

[nocturne glacier]

fun fact

glacial comet's also refunding 10 mana on proc

i just found this out

[scarlet ore]

Will there be a talk today or no?

I have a few things to say

[nocturne glacier]

should be at like 6PM ET, haven't heard anything otherwise

[hoary swift]

This is related to hudson's rework and how it seems like the devs want armor to be his whole thing yet most of his kit doesn't even have anything to do with armor. Like they could do so many unique things with armor being hudson's main thing, yet it feels like they are not doing anything interesting with the armor concept.

[trim sail]

Unless something changed in the past few patches, Beebo uncharged LMB actually has a really small amount of knockback, like Brall LMB. Most people don't notice it because most people don't use Beebo LMB unless they're charging it, and it's not a problem anyways because the hitbox is so thin that there's counterplay to get away from it.

[hoary swift]

I have actually noticed that, its just its so small it doesn't really matter. Brall's knockback isnt like a tiny knockback, its so much that he can trap you against a wall and its not fun to fight, at all.

[hoary swift]

so, is there talk?

[nocturne glacier]

seems so

in like 20ish mins

[hoary swift]

ima just say this early, and for the 500th time.

remove brall's knockback pretty pls, i don't like getting spammed lmb and just being unable to play the game. and that's even more true with how over tuned all of brall's numbers are, unfun hunter to fight and is ruining the game for me.

[modern willow]

Happy Friday.

[molten ore]

hiya Jess

[hoary swift]

hi 👋 gonna be mainly talking about huddy rework cus that happened this week

[molten ore]

how ya been?

[modern willow]

Good. In playtest right now, but stopping by.

[molten ore]

playtest 👀

hype

[nocturne glacier]

hello jello

[modern willow]

Yeah, enjoying it.

Hey!

Happy to hear Hudson thoughts, for sure.

[molten ore]

I have a super giga important question

[nocturne glacier]

Glad to hear the playtest is going good

[molten ore]

where is

[modern willow]

Lol, I did share it with the team. They were stoked. Not sure - I can ask how it's going.

[molten ore]

lmao I'm mostly jokin around

[nocturne glacier]

wait is this a safeleaked

🤨

[molten ore]

glad to hear the team was stoked about

[nocturne glacier]

become one with

I do have something I want to talk about today actually

Wrote it down earlier

[modern willow]

Sure, hit me.

[nocturne glacier]

Hudson mains would love to say their piece too so will try not to take too much time

[scarlet ore]

I have a few chosen words But I can wait :)

[sturdy coyote]

I have a very important question Jess

What is "hehe"??????

[nocturne glacier]

^^^^

[modern willow]

hehe

[nocturne glacier]

THIS TOO

JESS

😭

[sturdy coyote]

Also happy leif Erikson day

[nocturne glacier]

my actual question was:

What's the current thoughts/ideology on the accessibility and consistency of acquiring and keeping Powers? I've been wondering about it because we play a Battle Royale, but I feel like a lot of powers are just purchasable off-rip

And you don't lose most of them on death

[hoary swift]

giant msg of thoughts, got turned into a txt.

bullet points from an AI if you don't wanna read long msg:
Positive Aspect:

• Hudson’s reworked wires are considered "perfect."

Complaints/Issues:
Passive Healing Removal:

• Loss of on-hit heal and heal on knock passive makes Hudson overly vulnerable.
• Omnivamp builds are insufficient to compensate, reducing survivability drastically.

Primary Fire Weakness:

• LMB (basic attack) feels ineffective.
• RMB (alternate fire) now acts like a debuff with minimal utility, making both primary attacks feel underwhelming.

Dash Mechanics:

• Delay between input and execution makes dash unreliable for damage or combos.
• Reduced turn rate during RMB makes targeting post-dash difficult.
• Dash no longer kills green jellies, adding frustration.

Wires Cooldown Suggestion:

• Request for -2s cooldown reduction per level (excluding level 4) to improve utility.

Ultimate Nerfs:

• Removal of healing from ult eliminates its role as a survivability tool.
• 15% HP threshold for execution feels too strict; 20% suggested.

AP Scaling Issues:

• Dash lacks AP scaling entirely.
• Wires, RMB, and LMB have very low AP scaling, limiting build flexibility.

Overall Sentiment:

• Hudson’s rework has made him feel unplayable compared to his previous version.
• Urges developers to address these issues promptly to restore viability and fun factor.

bunch of huddy thoughts

[modern willow]

I'll share this with our Huddy designer! Thanks for the write-up.

[sturdy coyote]

Is the sentiment from EVERYONE that he is weaker because of this change?

[scarlet ore]

I have some more

[sturdy coyote]

I havent seen a lot of stuff

But the new ult is 1000% cooler

[hoary swift]

few people think he's fine but most think he got a lot lot worse/weaker

[nocturne glacier]

I don't play Hudson so this is purely from a fighting standpoint, I think he's weaker from the change but I think the kit is overall healthier and cooler

[molten ore]

I'll actually also chime in on the huddy rework. For some clarification I am not a hudson player but I popped on for a few games to get some perspective.

• I think the barbed wire changes are lit.
• The dash is bugged and takes a second after button press to actually impulse him.
• Ult feels good to use as huddy, really bad to be on the receiving end of though.
  I'm torn on the new rmb. On one hand I love that hudson has agency between his choices of being a stationary turret or not. Both "forms" definitely have their place. But the part that I'm torn on is just how high his rmb scales down his turn speed and trhe speed at which it scales. I feel like I have to be in a very situational well... situation to hold rmb for more than a couple seconds now.

I love that that introduces a choice instead of the binary on/off old rmb was. But I feel like it's a little mis-tuned at present. I often felt like I was getting griiefed by my own kit slowing me down just a little too fast.

oopa was not done. will edit my last line

[scarlet ore]

Im gonna text wall sorry

Going to go through his kit part by part (what I like/dislike) and a summary after.

Passive changes a positive for the removal of back side dmg and more armor focus. But loosing heals really hurts survivability

Lmb change mostly W.
Lmb being stronger is nice, might still need a little extra.
I like the "Stand still for accuracy" note.

Rmb changes I like the direction of the changes personally. So mixed W from me. Others aren't sure but might be from it just being so different.
Lockout doesn't feel too bad if not even good.
I like the concept of risk/reward but more reward for holding it is needed.
removing heals hurts but understand why its gone and like it that way.

Shift changes kind of L.
There is a weird stutter/delay to casting it that feels very clunky.
The dmg and knockback and them scaling with spin is a nice idea but never comes into play. High risk basically no reward
The cd refund on impact is fun to have as a bonus thing.
Mini dash is too slow and short to ever matter. you always use the long dash since the times you'd warrant the small one big one is just better. Using it for knockback comes into play once in a blue moon and it doing any good after that is even rarer.

Wires mostly W.
One less charge hurts but the dmg is now nice and the faster deploy feels good.
Loosing the dmg from pushing enemies OUT of the wires was a bad change.

Ult mixed
New yank is nice and it feels better to use BUT loosing the self heal hurts really REALLY bad.
Long range you can really bully enemies and they have to actually respect the ult.
Close range though it sometimes lets enemies dash behind Hudson because the momentum stacks and that is basically instant death for Hudson.
Its also bugged and doesn't give kill credit to Hudson a lot of the time so you don't get global knock heal. And cant secure bosses reliably since kill credit goes to the last person who did dmg not Hudson.

[sturdy coyote]

I think a lot of tuia makes jim a farm more interesting character from a theotetical standpoint, not just "me gun man"

[modern willow]

Glad kit's feeling cooler. Noted on the power callouts.

[scarlet ore]

Hudsons mini rework made him noticeably weaker but I feel the changes are a step in the right direction. But they are still a step and a few more are needed. General reception seems to follow along those lines. People like the direction for the most part but some parts of the rework need work still.
Major gripe with the rework is that is generally agreed upon is that it didn't solve his largest issue and made it even more apparent. Hudson does not have the luxury of confirming his dmg like EVERYONE else in the game. Think how every hunter in the game tends to have ways to confirm their dmg with either a combo, aoe, fast projectiles/reliable high dmg Lmb and etc, often they have more then one like carbine with dashes, slows, range, stuns, zoning tools, knockbacks and combos. Hudson's tools to "Confirm dmg/pin down" enemies are super unreliable to hit and when hitting they aren't effective. The new tools added don't help much besides ult in long range. Dash knockback just doesn't. Wire dmg is nice but can never utilize its on purpose. Hudson also still lacks ways to engage/threaten enemies, he doesn't have nearly as many options as other characters making him to feel helpless in most situations.

Previous version had mostly same issues but was held together by the ridiculous self healing capabilities (the glue). I think removal of heals from Passive and RMB where warranted and good since they promoted unhealthy gameplay BUT Ult heal was crucial for Hudson to clutch fights and didnt feel too unfair. Without the healing buffering Hudsons lack of options it has made his flaws very apparent. An immobile character like hudson needs survival tools of some kind. He takes a lot of damage while fighting so he needs a way to regen it built in.

Improvement/change/fix suggestions me and other hudson players have been coming up with. Its all pretty minor stuff except for one change but its the most important one.

GIVE hudson a knockback that ISNT the one attached to shift. PLEASE the shift knockback feels so bad to use. The cd refund is fine the little dmg is funny and so is the knockback but give him Another one so he can actually control his enemies and confirm dmg. Close range knockback of some kind with a wall stun attached to it.
A cone is fine, projectile is fine, aoe circle is fine. As long as its an on demand low range knockback with wall stun. Every Hudson player wants it. It synergizes with his kit perfectly. And fixes the biggest issue Hudson players have about him. Even non Hudson players agree. Ive asked around a lot. I am on my hands and knees praying.

Easiest implementation would be to attach it to RMB Exhaust when either letting go of rmb or pressing Rmb again during the Exhaust sequence. Make it scale with spin up. Give it a cd or something so it cant be spammed.

It would give Hudson agency, play making potential, reliability.
downside is that it would make people who dont know how to play into hudson cry. But they already cry about shrike.

-For lmb remove the Dmg fall off on it since its so short range and doesn't really need it anymore.

-Rmb could really use more reward for holding.
-Rmb lockout minimum could be lower. Some people find it really bad but might be an issue with rmb just feeling unrewarding.
-Maybe allow Lmb to fire while rmb cools or just make the recovery faster on lower spin up.

-make Shift count as "Standing still" for Lmb/Rmb accuracy during Shift.
-PLEASE REMOVE the small stutter/delay on casting Shift THIS IS A MUST
-Mini dash should be faster.
-Increase the shift minimum dmg back to 100 so it kills the floating squids and Hudson can get dash resets with them.

-Bring back Q dealing dmg to enemies who get pushed/pulled out of wires.
-Make Wires count as walls for interactions with wall stun abilities.

-Bring back Ult healing Hudson. Maybe not allies but atleast healing him. He really needs the sustain to clutch fights. THIS is a must as well. Hudson players loved the ult being a clutch tool.
-Maybe make ult reset on successful deathbox (50% reduction on just wisp) Compensate with the weaker jank or slow on it.
-Make the jank not stack with momentum/dashes, enemies can dash towards Hudson during the yank and get behind him instantly.
-Increase the minimum Jank distance, they dont need to be that close.

[hoary swift]

i do think ult heal needs to be brought back. there were so many situations the heal saved your ass and with it gone and nothing to take it's place for those situations he just dies sometimes without anything he can do.

[modern willow]

We'll also check today - typically try to wait for a day or two of games to come in as an additional input.

[scarlet ore]

Important note

I am on my hands and knees praying

[modern willow]

Hahah. Appreciate your breakdown, too.

I'll pull it all into one note since these are a bit long - think you guys are calling out a few similar notes.

[sturdy coyote]

Oh jess, do you have an answer for my DM

[modern willow]

Oh, ugh - I thought I responded to that.

My bad.

One sec.

[scarlet ore]

Ive been taking others opinions into account and tried to get ideas from them. similarities coming from that.

[sturdy coyote]

Lmao

All good

[scarlet ore]

Seen other hudson players being VERY desperate and Genuinely angry at some of the changes

Like removal of ult heal and the Dash delay/stutter

[nocturne glacier]

Also to expand on this: I think I've felt like the "work-with-what-you-find" gameplay of a BR has felt missing as of late and I think the consistency of Powers has contributed a lot to that

• the fact that almost all powers are soulbound feels less exciting to me, like losing powers isn't really that much of a problem anymore because it mostly doesn't happen (and also makes you never swap powers mid-game once you have whatever's OP on you because you seldom lose it)

[scarlet ore]

All my thoughts are in the text walls would very much appreciate it being read with thought.

[prisma bane]

think i need to bring this back since my friend is always talking about this

[hoary swift]

i do feel really sad for my main to feel a little useless now. i'm not even close to being that good on other hunters, but i just can't play hudson anymore it feels like. seems like yall are trying so i just gotta wait, but it really sucks.

[modern willow]

I think we always hoped players would engage in consistent make-do by making them less reliable. In practice, we've seen a smaller % of players really engaging with the Powers layer. Increasing reliability was meant to address some of that, and it helps for sure. Would trade some amount of that for players to engage in the combinatorics more, though.

[nocturne glacier]

I see, makes sense

[scarlet ore]

I might stem from the fact powers dont feel as powerful as equipment and raw combat stats.

Why would I spend gold on some little utility when I can just pick higher stats and beat the enemy to death with stat leads.

[nocturne glacier]

I would LOVE if there was more encouragement in the "combinatorics" department for sure, to maybe not pick the same Powers every game and really start engaging with different tools and systems

[molten ore]

I personally didn't start using powers outside of passive ones at all until I started playing in scrims/tournaments. They always felt gimmicky to me and hyper-situational.

[scarlet ore]

I see someone with lower tier armor and lower tier equipment it doesnt matter they have a little bit of utility. I have the bigger stick and can beat them to death with it.

[nocturne glacier]

Actually this makes a good segway into something a bit more anecdotal about Powers

well @molten ore I think nailed it

I find most people I play with don't really engage with the active powers often

Typically this is friends

[molten ore]

Idk if I'm indicative of the average player experience in that regard, but my friends and I never used any powers playing casually outside of like airblast or maybe bungee. Definitely didn't help that we weren't knowledeable enough to even consider getting red powers

[scarlet ore]

Most noticable on hudson who relies on stats. I would go for gold armor 3 tiers equipments ahead over red powers. No cap. I do better with the stats

[nocturne glacier]

Like I have a friend who plays KP and is like "why would I use sand wall, every time I do it feels useless" or they wonder the point of some stuff like Iron Fist

I think it's hard to appreciate the value of Powers often

Especially combos

[modern willow]

Yeah, this is pretty common.

[nocturne glacier]

They really like Mana Battery and Stealth Cloak (because, well, KP) but don't interact with much else

[scarlet ore]

They would probably feel better if they where actually needed to get a lead.
If everyone is on roughly the same level strength wise (stats wise). The tiny leads you get from powers feel way better.

Think of apex legends. Having good items for heals and such gives you way higher chances of winning if you use them.

Fortnite same

[nocturne glacier]

I'd say I have a similar problem, I'd say I'm pretty well versed in Powers usage but I tend to find myself constantly buying Delicate Barrier if I'm on the north half of the map, and 2 Blood Stones if I'm on the south part of the map because it's just so damn consistent + BiS on the character I play

That's a me problem for sure

[solemn idol]

really thinking with shifting power from Hudson's passive by removing the heal from passive and making the note on the patch to build omnivamp to get sustain I magine what would it be if he could run a Tank omnivamp item like if it was a Helmet to have a tank option for this with Omnivamp

[nocturne glacier]

I think the consistency of Powers does water down the playing field into "this and this = OP on this hunter so just go buy it" to some extent

[scarlet ore]

I feel they should be quite random.

[hoary swift]

hudson still heals less with omnivamp and no passive versus just passive heal on hit, it's funny how this is true.

[solemn idol]

wow so what if there were Two items that could give omnivamp for heal I wonder which one the second would be.....

[nocturne glacier]

I kinda feel the same yeah, but as Jess said, players don't seem to interact with the system when it's totally random

[scarlet ore]

I dont think they interact with it BECAUSE its not the best way to gain power.

Best way to gain power imo is armors + equipment.

[nocturne glacier]

I think that depends more per-hunter

[scarlet ore]

It is very prelevant on hudson. I take high tier equipment and armor over every power except maybe 3.

I need the stats to function.

[molten ore]

If I had to put a finger on why it was like that in my specific case it was likely due to the process of learning a new roster's worth of characters and abilities occupying my entire mind. I was too focused on piloting my hunter properly to even give powers a second thought. To this day I get so lost in the sauce of my mechanics that I forget to pop even op powers during scrims.

[nocturne glacier]

For Felix, I find myself buying Powers even before getting both of my weapons to blues

Blood Stone/DB is way too OP on him

[molten ore]

I imagine summoner spells have a similar issue in league. They did with me at least

[nocturne glacier]

I can see a similar argument made with KP

Where Stealth Cloak/Mana Battery is just insane on him

[scarlet ore]

I wonder why stat powers are good on stat check.

[nocturne glacier]

My point is more that powers do have more weight than equipment on some hunters

stat checky or not

[scarlet ore]

Some but I feel it should be for everyone.

Everyone I feel should care more about the utility then they do about raw stats.

[nocturne glacier]

Yeah I do wish that was more the case nonetheless

[soft current]

@modern willow for future patches it would be great to mention ALL changes such as that leaving lobby now pulls everyone out of it, out of muscle memory this has happend three times so far, the latest just today: https://fxtwitter.com/ZodagTV/status/1923482159345520781 🤣

Zodag (@ZodagTV)

ahemm.. How to destroy the entire scrim lobby in 1 second @TomKick #supervive

**🔁 1 ❤️ 25 👁️ 329 **

▶ Play video

FxTwitter · May 16, 2025, 8:54 PM

[prisma bane]

#1368056668729901076 message gonna leave this here

some feedback on felix and what would be nice to see on him

[scarlet ore]

Minor oopsi

[nocturne glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/oopsy-daisy-oops-innocent-case-cleared-gif-27001615

[sturdy coyote]

I think a big-ish issue with powers for newer players is that some of the more common ones you get dont immediately have known power, its more learned through time, and it makes them feel not as good to start

[nocturne glacier]

I like this take a lot

The power from Powers is a bit harder to understand for new players I feel

[scarlet ore]

Also the game teaches you to just upgrade equipment first and rush those first

[nocturne glacier]

this too

[scarlet ore]

And get armor

[modern willow]

Grabbing this one. Thanks for the link.

[nocturne glacier]

Also I still stand by this post (even if it's super opinionated into what I think an ideal Felix rework would look like!)

[modern willow]

Will read this in a sec. Thanks for the bump.

[nocturne glacier]

I'd edit some of it because I think I could've worded it better but uhhh

#1011370431879594024 is locked now, so.. we let it ride

[sturdy coyote]

Like, I miss tracking missile cause it was IMMEDIATELY known what power it was good for and the knowledge check was just how well you used it

[nocturne glacier]

i remember winning a game off a friends homing missile

good times

[modern willow]

Which ones are you thinking of? (I agree, by the way.)

[scarlet ore]

been wondering for a while now that the current equipment and armor system might be a source of hidden frustration with the game. Creates so much variation in what amounts of hp people have, dmg break points. Threat assessment is harder. Cant tell what equipment they have or passives.
Shoehorns characters into spesific builds cus there is the Bis
the 4th option being a slot machine makes things worse.
And on top its really damn unintuitive.
To gain strenght you must jump through hoops to get stat upgrades.
Shops are mainly used to just upgrade equipment and not buy utility like potions or powers since you never tend to have the money for those. You spent it on mandatory equipment upgrades.
And its the simplest way to gain power besides leveling.

[molten ore]

Hudson Gaming was it you the other day talking about a theoretical system where your stats lie in level upgrades and items would provide straight up utility?

It was a really interesting thread and I can't remember where I saw it

[fervent parrot]

i feel like the problem with powers is a lot of them have forever been kinda worthless, a lot of the power combos that made them more interesting got nerfed to unplayability, and theres no reason to engage with powers you don't want if you can drop to reliably get powers from mobs or from shops

I think its ok if you want to treat powers more like a loadout but I think this is taking a different ideology to a BR and treating the mechanic like a moba mechanic instead, which I think is not great because I feel its obvious to most ppl that the supervive powers are not well suited moba mechanics either

[scarlet ore]

Was me most likely but dont remember where

Might have been here

But I stand by what I belive. Leads in vive should never be numerical. Instead purely utility focused.
Newer players dont have to engange with the system if they refuse to but getting beat because the enemy used a zoning tool like zone grenade feels like you got outplayed. more then just "They had higher armor and equipment tiers so more stats"

[nocturne glacier]

I think a lot of powers could be significantly more interesting/useful yeah, like I think of Green Thumb or Forestwalking as good examples of kinda worthless Powers that really don't get interaction much

But yeah the second thing you said was mostly my point outside of that

It feels more like a moba mechanic of "I buy this, this and this for my optimal meta build" and less experimentation

[scarlet ore]

If you want numerical leads they should be very small and slightly affect breakpoints.
Think of Apex legends or fortnite.
Having better guns matters a little because the higher tier gun probably hits a dmg breakpoint. And kills ever so slightly faster.
But a gold gun and an grey gun do the same thing. It might only come to 1-3 bullet difference

[soft current]

i like the current power-level and "usability" of powers

[nocturne glacier]

Which is not helped by a lot of powers being just kinda bad

[soft current]

armor shredder being the way too strong exception

feels like everything i pickup has a use

[nocturne glacier]

A lot of Powers are really good, FWIW

Even some of the lower tier ones

[soft current]

and i find myself wondering atleast 3-4 times a game "should i ditch this for that..." opposed to having the "best-in-slot" always the same

[jade jay]

The differences in Apex matter a lot more than your making them out to here

[soft current]

do i keep the eplat for late? do i go money-trees throwing axe? oh theres a abyssal fang on the ground, what do i ditch now.... etc. I like the state powers are in.

some new ones for 1.0 would be cool, loved the christmas update with the seasonal theme

[nocturne glacier]

I think that's also dependant on Hunter

[jade jay]

The progression curve is just such that you don't generally encounter significant power differences

[nocturne glacier]

Like on Felix by default one of my Power slots are going to be taken up by Delicate Barrier or Blood Stone in damn near every game

[fervent parrot]

I think this is a weird example to give bc the answers are pretty obvious what you should take and why here lol

[nocturne glacier]

Sometimes both

[soft current]

but they arent....

[fervent parrot]

interesting ...

[soft current]

this was a literal scenario in todays scrim game and i kept eplat + moneytrees

and we won it 🙂

whoever got that fang off the ground, enjoy the gift

so many powers whether green or exotic have many uses and skill expression

[fervent parrot]

is there a vod of the scrim? that sounds like an interesting match

[soft current]

synthDNB on twitch

our EU caster symeri

[nocturne glacier]

oh while we're on the subject of powers

i'm bringing up my most useful feedback thread

[soft current]

now that i think of it, this happend in a inhouse game not scrims

[nocturne glacier]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1359821908119523420

i'm real

[soft current]

u can prob find vods of that aswell tho

[scarlet ore]

Maybe so. Havent played them too much in the end.

Better gun wins cus it deals dmg more reliably. Missed shots arent as punishing when they hit harder.

[modern willow]

this was a literal scenario in todays scrim game and i kept eplat + moneytrees
and we won it 🙂
Nice.

[nocturne glacier]

Jess when is the patch that Little Cook can make a one-time-use nuke

[modern willow]

Yeah, I would say..I think there's pretty strong Powers that are unquestionably good on certain Hunters. So it's hard to say that Equipment is definitely more valuable because they have stats on them.

[modern willow]

I see this a lot.

[modern willow]

🙂

[nocturne glacier]

IM JOKING

[soft current]

Im curious about the approach to armor, it feels like it gets shredded too fast, has the team ever spoken about this? I personally would find it cool if repairing costed slightly more but in return armor has some more durability. Especially with armor shredder, 1 single ability and your legendary armor is at 0%

[prisma bane]

nuke receiving the replicator treatment and becoming a consumable would actually be interesting to see

since the cd is so long

[molten ore]

more frequent nukes but theey're one time use would be really interesting actually. I kinda like the idea

[covert marten]

nuke consumable would go hard

[scarlet ore]

I would like more consumables in general

[covert marten]

make it purchaseable from shop for like around 8k or 9k

[nocturne glacier]

I wanted to say actually, EMP grenade p cool

[scarlet ore]

But dont really get to buy them since money goes to equipment and armor repairs

[covert marten]

emp grenade is really cool, its just that consumables arent widely used i feel like

[nocturne glacier]

yeah I wish there were more consumables

(and little cook can cook them)

[soft current]

Another example of powers / consumables having multiple uses, i love the basecamp mechanic it comes with (disabling enemy basecamp) with the addition of this item and the scan grenade buffs a while ago i actually have to put thought into what i want to keep now instead of just going 3x jumppad 🤣

[covert marten]

only one i see consistently used other than healing is jump pad

but its just cuz jump pad is a frog jump that you can buy

[nocturne glacier]

bungee jump pad Felix ult is my lifeblood

I don't care if it's bad it's FUNNY

[covert marten]

what does that even do

[nocturne glacier]

a thing of beauty

[covert marten]

can u just tell me

[prisma bane]

sends u flying super fast in the sky

[covert marten]

ohh

[prisma bane]

think celest with health packs

[nocturne glacier]

i was getting a video of it to show you

[covert marten]

that sounds really fun lol

[covert marten]

carbine can do it too

[nocturne glacier]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1253843079719288922/1328976219902967909/SUPERVIVE_2025-01-15_01-35-31.mp4?ex=6828d74e&is=682785ce&hm=b6b4776ad44c3d432ab4977ce96eef213226b020f33bcbcc910d9c86da178b3a&

i had a video of it

[covert marten]

that character so phreaked...

[prisma bane]

felix can do that too

[nocturne glacier]

@covert marten for some reason felix R goes forward through bungee

same with beebo R

it increases the velocity

so you just roleplay a comet

go to like 16s i clipped it bad LMFAO

[covert marten]

HOLY

thats awesome

[nocturne glacier]

god this was before i took the name of joaquin felix

i took up the crown..

[prisma bane]

this is cool but the forbidden tech is even funnier

[molten ore]

felix space program

[covert marten]

seems so useless in game tho :(

[nocturne glacier]

which one, mantle boost?

[nocturne glacier]

really good escape tool

[prisma bane]

yeah

[nocturne glacier]

btw i'm so glad the bungee felix R wasn't removed

[covert marten]

o ic

[nocturne glacier]

i was like "this is so gonna get removed when they find out"

[covert marten]

who was the og?

[nocturne glacier]

nobody tbh

it was always me.

😔

[prisma bane]

felix has some weird interactions with momentum not gonna lie

[covert marten]

o

[prisma bane]

both his R and Q can do some silly stuff

[nocturne glacier]

when the clip of me doing the bungee tech popped up in the fireside chat with jess saying "reducing the more chaotic yeets" i feared for the safety of the silly tech

but it seems to be here to stay, for now

bless

[scarlet ore]

Have yall seen what happens to hudson Shift during knockbacks

[nocturne glacier]

oh yeah

similar story

[prisma bane]

it barely sees use in games so i can see why its still in the game

[nocturne glacier]

0 friction and just launches you

[scarlet ore]

https://tenor.com/view/blasting-off-countdown-crypto-ignition-launchpad-gif-13491991027374380983

Pov got hit by Oath

[soft current]

hudson + bungee = racecar

[sturdy coyote]

I think a big one for me, and I know it isnt really an "Early power" but its fairly common, is Med kit, I love the power, its tech, and all its uses, but when people first see it, they just think "Oh, its a heal"

[nocturne glacier]

you can also ditch the jump pad

and use it as a chase tool

[prisma bane]

felix Q does the same for some reason instead of pulling

[scarlet ore]

I wish hudsons dash scaled with Ap so he could go for the "Railgun hudson" build

[nocturne glacier]

https://youtu.be/n4XewrTV88Q?si=oE-eKCD5Z3LmsDQy&t=268 like this from an ancient playtest

[scarlet ore]

Angrybirds build

[prisma bane]

imagine being oneshot by the flying fat man

[nocturne glacier]

god

[scarlet ore]

https://tenor.com/view/dd-gif-25061909

[nocturne glacier]

that happened to me once to spike me

actual fucking jumpscare

[prisma bane]

instead of ap scaling some momentum scaling to make it even sillier

[scarlet ore]

Ive actually done that once. It was a weird interaction in the closed tests where once I flew into a jin from 4 windrigngs and he just dissapeared

[nocturne glacier]

i had it happen to me in the wind rings between magebog and wraiths row

genuine jumpscare

[scarlet ore]

Saw 4 ,300 dmg pops appear

[nocturne glacier]

i've gotten used to the new wind rings but my god

do i miss the yeets

[sturdy coyote]

I dont think it's bad that power have interesting tech, or combo's but a lot, especially the more common ones, feel overly weak, and dont impact your fights as much

[nocturne glacier]

i blew my group's fuckin mind when i mentioned it grants an extra jump

after like 6-7 months of playing

they didn't know

[sturdy coyote]

I dont think that's a bad thing, like thats cool knowledge

But EVERY power does that

[nocturne glacier]

yeye more just saying it for the sake of dialogue and like, definitely the first interaction with it is "it's just a heal"

so it gets disregarded quickly

[sturdy coyote]

Ah, I getcha

[nocturne glacier]

[pastel gate]

I thought there was a mention of a livestream last week. Is that still happening?

this right here

[modern willow]

We were going to do it, but I was busy the week prior and Tom's busy this week.

We made a date for next week.

[pastel gate]

gotcha

[nocturne glacier]

🫡

[modern willow]

Totally. Makes sense.

[prisma bane]

can we expect a longer talk since there is 2 patches to cover?

[modern willow]

We usually do an hour and some change, which we find to be pretty long already for most people. Lol.

But if we go a bit long, I think that works for me next week.

[nocturne glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/gato-anotado-noted-noted-gato-noted-cat-gif-15232071836705052766

[pastel gate]

Will we ever learn the secrets of "hehe" ?

[nocturne glacier]

that's what i've been sayin

[modern willow]

Maybe!

[nocturne glacier]

i think

i just had a heart attack with that reply jess

LMFAO

[modern willow]

Sorry, I didn't mean that. LOL

[nocturne glacier]

nono i know

thought it was funny

[modern willow]

Silly tech is still love.

[nocturne glacier]

YEEAAHHHHH

sticker material right here

[sturdy coyote]

WHAT DOES IT MEAN???

[nocturne glacier]

THE PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW

WE THE PEOPLE

I think

we should hyper-analyze the time and date of this tweet

and make up conspiracies

[modern willow]

I wonder...

In any case.

Thanks for the Hudson responses. We'll take the time to read them and I'll have a conversation with our Hudson designer next week on it.

[pastel gate]

any playtest opportunities coming soon?

[modern willow]

Discussing timing of what makes sense.

[sturdy coyote]

the fact that it is all lower case makes me think that its something specific

[sturdy coyote]

The weekend of the 7th is definitely a terrible time to do it, I know that much

[nocturne glacier]

major's onto something

[modern willow]

Lol, why?

[sturdy coyote]

I will be in Charlotte looking at apartments

[modern willow]

Nice. Are you excited?

[sturdy coyote]

To get out of the meth capitol of the US dayton Ohio?

Yupp

[nocturne glacier]

oh god

dayton 😔

i come from cincinnati, my times in dayton were uhhh

not pleasant

[sturdy coyote]

Also no more looking at the disgusting Skyline chili

[nocturne glacier]

WHAT

NAH

THIS IS SLANDER

do you at least support chili spaghetti in general

[sturdy coyote]

If it were good, sure

[nocturne glacier]

hmm.. 😔

also i find it amazing this is the second time i've been involved in a food-related chat in a supervive server today

[sturdy coyote]

Oh yea

[nocturne glacier]

i just had chili spaghetti tonight, cincinnati got me

[modern willow]

Chili spaghetti?

[nocturne glacier]

okay so

it sounds insane

[modern willow]

Lol

Honestly, I'm kind of down.

[sturdy coyote]

But remember, Skyline chili is fast food, so canned chili and watter spaghetti

Also jess there is a good convo in the creator cord in general lol

[modern willow]

Nice. I have to jet for a team meet, but will check it out this weekend.

[nocturne glacier]

Cincinnati has their own style chili that gets put over spaghetti noodles, with cheese and onions on top. you can also substitute this for any chili you're comfortable with, definitely done this before. it's amazing, I will die on this hill

mmm

it's unique for sure

like cincinnati chili uses light amounts of cocoa and no beans, it's more the consistency of a pasta sauce

[nocturne glacier]

see ya around! thanks for the chat

[modern willow]

Ohhh.

I'm in.

[nocturne glacier]

hell yeah

[sturdy coyote]

@modern willow How about Smoked ribs with spicy penut butter sauce?

[nocturne glacier]

man now I'm thinking about my first time in Dayton

[scarlet ore]

You are welcome. I am always happy to discuss all things Hubby

[nocturne glacier]

throwback to the ambulance driver doing a scratch off on their wheel at 60mph

pass them, they start catching up and now they're texting and driving

[sturdy coyote]

My first week in Dayton I saw both a steriotypical pimp and a white truck in a chickfila dirvethrough with a "I love Crack whores" sticker

[nocturne glacier]

yeah that sounds like dayton

worst place in ohio

[normal palm]

why'd they remove ally/enemy glider fuel indicators btw? can we get it as a UI setting?

[hoary swift]

Random suggestion for hudson: since yall wanna emphasize on his dash shift combo make it so whole dashing he insta places wires up to half range. So he can actually do the combo without it being massively predictable.

Idk of this'll be seen by the huddy designer, but i think this could be interesting and a good buff to him.

And his dash should be faster so he can even hit it, and have more turn rate,and shorter cd. Then it'd be nice if his turn rate with rmb was increased when he is dashing so he can actually focus someone while dashing.

Bunch if huddy buf ideas

Oh and prob 50% cd reduction on hit depending on how easy it is to hit when its faster and can actually turn. I think it should also do enough base dmg to kill a jellyfish, prob just me tho.

His emb exhaust feels a little clunky to play with as well, hopefully this is fixed at someploint.

And idk why to get shorter cd you have to literally tap dash. Why csnt it just be like celeste dash...

And pls pls fix the huddy dash delay, its stupid annoying.

[hoary swift]

another random idea for hudson: make his dash cd gradually get lower as he winds up more. Like max wind up could bring it down to like 5 secs with no dash haste, ofc give it lowest, but the purpose of this is how the entire game is kinda related to dodging stuff, yet hudson just cannot dodge stuff anymore.

Would also make actually qinding up feel more worth, since it feels kinda pointless to wind up a lot. Cus you just do it when you're about to kill someone to do it faster, and its almost never to max. In short, hudson lacks defenses rn.

[hoary swift]

Man I really tried to switch over to other mains when huddy got his rework but I didnt cus i like hudson's play style that much. Really hoping for some massive huddy buffs.

[modern willow]

Happy Friday. Will read a little earlier than usual just to get ahead..

[sturdy coyote]

Happy leif Erikson day Jess!

Please dont send me to the farm with twin a

[modern willow]

I would never.

Unless...

[sturdy coyote]

0____o

[scarlet ore]

Hellow

[hoary swift]

Jess quick question before I talk about some other stuff i wanna bring up:
Is the dash delay on hudson gonna be gone next patch?

[scarlet ore]

It really sucks to have. Vouching for that.

Also curious on how Hudsons looking on the statistics front.

[solemn idol]

Are we seeing the implementation of the Vampiric Helmet in 1.0

[hoary swift]

Also one other thing I want to bring up with hudson, hudson's turn rate is so slow he can't reliably lock onto a target when he dashes unless he dash back in a straght line. I think maybe having it so his turn rate is increased while he is dashing could be a good change for this.

[scarlet ore]

Im not to biggest fan of increasing his turn rate too much. (thought would be very nice for a lvl4 shift upgrade wink wink)
Since then we are back at the problem where he just wants to dash around and shoot. Becoming very stat checky

I like rmb limitations, it kinda just needs better reward for holding that high spin.

It could be reduced a bit but its risky

[hoary swift]

Then I do strongly believe his rmb heal on hit needs to be brought back. It mainly existed before because hudson was a very slow hunter and kinda just a sitting duck sometimes. But now in his rework he is even more of a sitting duck. So taking away his main way to survive really hurts.

Then his ult no longer healing takes away basically his entire carry potential. Since previously his main carry potential was from his ult healing him almost to full. Even with the other changes to his ult i dont find giving up the healing to be worth for these changes. I woukd legit take his old ult over this ult only because his old ult healed him on reel in.
Like before there wasnt much reward for hitting his ultz now there isnt much reward for reeling in. I was hoping there would be reward for both to make it feel more satisfying to both hit and get the reel in. But rn it doesnt feel nearly as satisfying to get a kill with his ukt as it did before.

Also his wires need a buff as well imo

[hoary swift]

That's why I said when dashing. I agree his base turn rate shouldn't be increased much if at all. But not being able to focus someone while turning with your dash feels really bad.

[hoary swift]

I agree. Winding up past half range is literally almost never worth.

[scarlet ore]

I personally hard disagree with RMB healing coming back. It was removed for a very good reason. Took up way too much of the power budget. Not allowing for other tools or interesting gameplay. And made for an unhealthy gameplay loop.
Ult healing coming back in some form I do agree would be a good thing.

[hoary swift]

I feel like it kind of forces hudson onto a specific playstyle without the rmb healing. And now he basically needs a healer otherwise he just has to pray. And it feels so bad in solo que. When half the time your healers don't really do much, and thats assuming you even get a healer on your team.

[molten ore]

Oh perfect slow day at work so I can chat soon.

[scarlet ore]

I think the feeling comes from the fact hudson doesnt have a reliable way to protect him self. He gives off Kog maw vibes rn. "Protect me or I die instantly. If you do I shred enemy team" type of character.
I doubt they want hudson to have a built in healer.
I would preffer hudson be self sufficient and capable without the need for hand holding.

the "Protect me or Loose" type of characters work well enough in mobas but im not sure how well they fit into a BR game.

[modern willow]

If you're talking about the Dash stutter issue, it's fixed with this next patch, yeah.

[hoary swift]

The type of character hudson is simply doesnt for well in the game. He rn has no real defense and before that defense him talking about was his rmb healing him. Unless they completely change hudson's kit imo it should come back to allow hudson to actually survive and not be forced into a specific build. Cus rn it feels like he is being forced into the double vamp build, even with a healer on his team that feels like the case he just then has more wiggle room

[hoary swift]

Yay :D

Also srry about so much hudson talk rn

[modern willow]

Lol, you're good! I sent over everything you guys shared last time. We have a few changes in this next patch, so it helped.

[hoary swift]

One thing that seems like hudson kind of needs is an actual reliable knockback in his kit. Idk if we said this last time or not.

Its just his dash is pretty unreliable and even if you do hit it you're kind of just stuck after. Cus like, no dash, so no escape.

[scarlet ore]

I agree he needs a defensive tool (like basically every character that shares the slow heavy machine gun archetype with him. seriously look it up)
Dont think healing is the solve.
Alternate defensive tools would be very fitting for hudson.
Easiest to implement being a reliable knockback that isnt attached to the dash.

[modern willow]

You did.

[scarlet ore]

Oh hey we share a braincell

Can I inquire if its been tested on hudson? Id like to hear about version you guys tested. If its not too much to ask of course.

[modern willow]

What does 'it' refer to? You mean, more types of defensive tools?

Or you mean the next patch's changes?

(Yes to the second, haha.)

[scarlet ore]

Reliable knockback that ISNT attached to the shift.

Or just isnt related to Ramming into enemies.

It really feels it doesnt fit Hudsons playstyle at all

Its funny but feels bad to try and utilize.

Asking around I havent really found a person who enjoys using that part of his kit.

[prisma bane]

hey Jess, would love to hear your thoughts on the current ttk and amount of cc on the game

[modern willow]

Not for this last iteration. There were different Hudson kits we had with varying versions of CC and knockback (not on Dash,) but it's been a while now.

[scarlet ore]

And ive been asking around a decent bit.

[modern willow]

There's changes to make the Dash one more reliable first. But there's other changes that are based on your guys' feedback (since that wasn't the only note)

[scarlet ore]

Also sorry if I am kinda "Forcing" this view of mine.

In my mind it would just "Fit" hudson. And would be in line with other characters of similar type to hudson (heavy machine gun wielding characters)

They almost always have those kinds of defensive tools from knockbacks to shields.

So hudson not having it feels a little off to me.

[hoary swift]

I used it previously on his old version. But his turn rate and ms are now too bad to get up in someone's face like that. Now it'd be a death sentence.

[scarlet ore]

Im wondering if you used it because you wanted to or cus it was basically the only option

[hoary swift]

I found it to be his best way of finishing kills. Like previously people would get away on like 200 hp a lot of the time, and the ram normally did around that amount of damage. So I kind of just got used to telling how low someone was and when they were around that 200 ish hp mark id ram them if I got the opportunity.

[sturdy coyote]

@modern willow is the practice range something we can expect some form of update for in the future #BringBackTheGauntlet

[scarlet ore]

Glad to hear.

[hoary swift]

If you guys are deciding to just try and make his dash one more reliable he needs a way to get it back sooner. The 25% cd reduction on hit doesn't feel like its nearly enough.

Also a quick thing I wanna mention about bishop's punch, it stunning on hit feels weird. I an saying literally nothing on it's walla stun. Just the fact it gives you a small micro stun when she hits it on you, it feels pretty stupid to get an ult canceled like that and I swear it wasnt like thay before as well.

And hudson level 4s imo need some work. Dash level 4 feels super underwhelming, his rmb level 4 feels like it does nothing even of its likely the best but thats mainly cus its just stat increases, and its kinda weird how you guys choose to make his main defense weaker until it's level 4. His wires are so weak rn you dont even wanna run wire level 4, but locking a charge behind a levek 4 is imo pretty bad.

[scarlet ore]

I feel the reason they dont feel like they do enough is because you cant reliably push enemies into them.

Coming back around to the "reliable knockback tool" argument

Oops

[modern willow]

My personal feeling's that it's been a little low. Necessarily so in some ways since it's easy for it to become noodle fights, and this lets healing be generous too. But we're looking at it right now.

(Sorry, in playtest right now.)

[modern willow]

Hahah, we're looking at it. Also, wait - what do you mean by Gauntlet?

[scarlet ore]

I have a very low priority call out relating to hud elements

Tiny things thats been bothering me

[modern willow]

Sure, hit me.

[scarlet ore]

Mana bar doesnt have "lines" hard to tell how much mana they actually have since you only see the bar.

[prisma bane]

np

[prisma bane]

its the opposite in my opinion

there is too much cc and with such a low ttk being stunned for 1s is gg back to lobby almost every time which can be very frustrating at times

[scarlet ore]

Like a 35% of the blue mana bar could mean cant full combo but it could also mean they have like 130+ mana if they have mana blade/mindblade.

This also applies to stat numbers like dash haste/ability haste, omni AND stuff like equipment passives. Really unintuitive to try and figure these out.

Only indicator you get are the 2 small colored boxes

[modern willow]

Wait, I'm confused. I was saying TTK feels low, and it's reading like you also think it's low?

Is there a reason you're saying we're saying opposite things?

[sturdy coyote]

The time trial

[modern willow]

Ahhh, yes.

[prisma bane]

i might have misunderstood u

[scarlet ore]

I assume its very low prior and probably in the know but I feel this small bit of Quality of life that could really help newer players intuit mechanics.
@modern willow

[prisma bane]

what im saying is that people die too fast and thats aggravated by a high amount of cc in the game

[scarlet ore]

I like how TTK is a word that always gets people confused.

[prisma bane]

with basically every hunter having a form of cc

[prisma bane]

fucks my brain everytime

[scarlet ore]

Same

[prisma bane]

yeah huddy and felix were not allowed in the party which is very weird for a frontliner and a controller i must say

[scarlet ore]

High = slow
Low = fast

[sonic smelt]

Is there any date for when the Joule rework is coming out?

[molten ore]

omg I forgot to type anything lol

here goes

[prisma bane]

given how hudson got his so quickly would guess in 1 or 2 patches after the one on Wednesday

[hoary swift]

Also on hudson its weird how you only get the small dash cd when you tap dash, if you even hold it its full cd. It feels weird

[molten ore]

I and a few other players I've talked to have large concerns about Eva being a giga-noobstomp hunter and having a similar effect to what Hudson had at OB launch.

My anecdotal experience is that everyone I started playing vive with quit because of Hudson meta and never looked back, I fear for the same thing to happen again with Eva.

Even scrim/tournament players have a hard time dealing with her because of how strong her healing is. I cannot imagine not only being a new player, but happening to be on a comp that doesn't have the only lengthy enough antiheals in the game to deal with her (Brall/Felix). She's a giga statstick right now and it worries me

[scarlet ore]

(again anti healing brought up. I love that mechanic )

[fervent parrot]

When you say TTK feels too low, what do you feel makes it feel too low?
I remember TC has done a lot of changes like making base HP stronger, and ofc adding the extra tier of armour, etc. because TTK has felt too low in the past. Do you think its still something like just "hp is too low"? Or do you think its something different - like maybe dashes being too easy to burn through, or there not being enough defensive powers, or ally peel isn't strong enough, or maybe not enough in-combat healing? or something like that?

[scarlet ore]

I have a suspicion the way armor and equipment work rn might be causing some of it.
Equipment leveling causing a LOT of stat variation and armor breaking results in an implosion. (armor level also contributes to effective hp values)

Gonna say in arena it doesnt feel as bad as in BR.

[modern willow]

Yeah, admittedly I feel bad every time I use TTK for that reason. Lol.

[modern willow]

What part of her kit's feeling the most noob-stompy right now?

[shadow salmon]

• carbine not getting dash reset is bug right? if this is getting fixed he will definitely need some compensation nerfs since hes so strong without dash resets right now
• with new armor change in arena, shrike cant kill 6 characters with 2 autos in arena anymore 😿 (eva elluna void celeste saros crysta) feels very bad
• kingpin cant hook bosses anymore (souls/nightbosses/day1boss). that is bug and will be fixed soon right?

[scarlet ore]

Rmb

[molten ore]

The orbs 100%. They're crazy tanky, I can't think of a hunter other than saros and maybe myth that can kill them if she's healing them (spoiler alert she is always healing them)

The damage buffs made it so most of her matchups she can just walk into people with orbs and you can't do anything about it in most cases.

[shadow salmon]

orbs take so long to kill

[nocturne glacier]

OH I FORGOT THE CHAT WAS TODAY

I'M HERE AND PRESENT 🫡

[molten ore]

I think the orbs need the Beebo bomb treatment in terms of hp. If you don't have destructive damage you're SoL rn

[scarlet ore]

Eva gameplay is so funny to look at. she just shoves the orb into someones face and kills them slowly

[sonic smelt]

And some hunters can't kill the orbs in easily as well

[shadow salmon]

i dont think the orbs are affected by destructive damage

but shrike bird bomb does like 10 trillion destructive damage and it doesnt do that much damage to eva orbs

[molten ore]

Are they not? I could've sworn Saros rmb does more damage to it than other similarly damaging abilities. Could be placebo from the antiheal ig

[shadow salmon]

dunno

shrike bird bomb does like 3k destructive damage

and it does like half of the orbs hp

[molten ore]

oh speaking of antiheal! I would like a visual indicator that the orbs have been antihealed. It is very unclear right now.

[scarlet ore]

https://tenor.com/view/matrix-angry-gun-firing-gif-15986910

This is what it feels like to try and shoot down Eva orbs as hudson

[modern willow]

Yeah, I like this callout.

[molten ore]

maybe make the healthbar purple. While we're at it why not add it to every hunter too :)))))))

jokes but also not jokes

lol

[scarlet ore]

I am to this day genuinely sceptical if antiheal is needed for the game to function.

[hazy forge]

Im a big lurker here today probably, excited see what topics we go over :D

[scarlet ore]

Coming from other games. And discussing with friends about the topic they are genuinely baffeled at the prospect of common widespread 100% antiheal.

[reef pilot]

not that every character needs to be a 400 apm sweat machine but it is very frustrating getting walked down by an eva just LMBing an orb, hitting her with a full combo, and having her still win the interaction just holding LMB on her orb. i think her numbers being tuned down may change the dynamic significantly but it currently feels like the eva doesnt have to consider very much at all and its everyone elses job to outplay her by a wide margin

[hazy forge]

It sucks that she is just a stat checker nowadays, def coulda had so much to do with her orbs ;-;

[nocturne glacier]

I remember @hazy forge was really excited for Eva but bummed when her gameplay was just LMB'ing orb on enemy and praying it did enough damage/healed enough to kill the enemy first

[reef pilot]

stat checker is a pretty appropriate description, as joule it is near impossible to kill an eva without her making a big mistake. she will heal my full combo back in literally 3 seconds

[scarlet ore]

Reminds me of Pre rework hudson but instead of a line its an AOE orb

[nocturne glacier]

There isn't a whole lot that you can do to change the output of Eva's orbs I feel, they're just "I do this much damage/heal this much health" and nothing Eva does changes that output

Her LMB does more damage to orbed targets but like, really not enough to think about to my understanding

[hazy forge]

I def dont wanna hijack convo into Eva because ik we have talked about it extensively i feel in previous threads, but her playing around MOVING orbs instead of just throwing them at people (if that makes sense) and reward positioning more would've been the vision I wish they went with

[scarlet ore]

Ive talked with Eva players and Ive heard a common sentiment.

Take power away from the orb and put it towards Lmb and Shift.

And to make orb more interesting.
Maybe it could be a dmg/heal amplification zone instead of a dmg/heal zone.
Would make it way more dynamic. and Allow her LMB to shine

Imagine "throwing" the orb at an enemy to amplify the dmg they take when they get cc'd

Would work as a zoning tool still I think

And lmb has a mana cost so it having high healing would be more fine since resource costs.

[hazy forge]

Stuff like this alongside rewarding Eva constantly moving orb while positioning herself def the direction I've voiced before for her

[scarlet ore]

Thought it would be cool way to support besides just heal botting

[hazy forge]

Oh 100%. Her current iteration has made me put no more time into her just because I've never been a fan of that type of playstyle in games in general. I think her kit is so cool and so many things they can do with it still

[nocturne glacier]

reminds me of another statcheck hunter

[molten ore]

I wanted to also share, and this is definitely more of a me thing so take it with a grain of salt, eva's lmb is designed in an unhealthy way.

Having a point and click undodge-able auto-target ability makes playing against eva feel unrewarding. Against every single other hunter in the game (excluding Brall and Jin for obvious reasons) when push comes to shove and you're both out of spells to cast you can style on people with wasd. Those are some of the most tense and nailbiting ways to end fights and with eva she just always wins those interactions because she doesn't need to aim.

[hazy forge]

I dont even think a rework for her is good, just readjusting the power of where her kit is and adding some utility/cc/amplification and we chilling

[hazy forge]

There we go again, classic Felix main making everything about himself (/j)

[scarlet ore]

Smh felix main (Hudson mains definately dont do the same )

[nocturne glacier]

[molten ore]

Hudson mains coming to the friday talk with all their hudson takes

[scarlet ore]

I see where you are coming from have you considered this. "Beam go pzzzzt"

[nocturne glacier]

nah hudson players just got a rework they need this

[hazy forge]

This week/previous week I get it and im vibing with it

[nocturne glacier]

now's a good time to talk about it

[molten ore]

I have considered it. It deeply saddens me ;-;

[hazy forge]

This is like THE best time for it

[molten ore]

oh yeah dw lol I'm just poking fun. Love the passion of the hudson players

[scarlet ore]

Your sadness delights me. Tear up more 😈

[nocturne glacier]

when felix rework comes i will be dropping several paragraphs just the same

[molten ore]

Oh also the tether range is absurd and seems to have no limit on the height axis. The other day I got spiked after taking a double tornado because an eva latched on to me before I got the height. That seems... wrong.

no other hunter can do that with an auto attack iirc

[scarlet ore]

Hoping they hit the fox on the head (nail on the head lmao) first time around on Felix. Hubby rework feels like it missed by an inch.

[hazy forge]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-arguing-guy-talking-to-wall-talking-brick-wall-gif-18667615

[scarlet ore]

If you check hudson chat its just OutDated doing that

[hazy forge]

LMFAOOOOO

[nocturne glacier]

Oooh I need to drop my novel of tooltips that should probably be updated for 1.0

[scarlet ore]

I feel a tether type lmb can work if it has heavy limitations. And it is a cool fantasy. But I will say it could be a projectile you aim at start. instead of auto tether. Its so jank rn.

[hoary swift]

I am srry about that... but like where else am I bouta put stuff

[scarlet ore]

No flame. We like you dude

Before you Joined I was doing the exact same

[modern willow]

Got it.

[modern willow]

Noted this idea, too. Less loud than the old anti-heal treatments we had.

[molten ore]

I think overall I find Eva's kit just super binary. You either do what she wants you to do or you leave her alone and engage with someone else. I find it boring if anything. People wanna fight and she says "No 🗿 "

[scarlet ore]

Bathe Eva's orbs in Antiheal juice

wait that sounds wrong on a re read

[molten ore]

take away a load of healing and make them perpetual antiheal if you stand in them. Make her a dive punish hunter :)

just spitballin

or let her "fling" them at people outside of her normal drag range for big damage

aggressive zoner

[scarlet ore]

Failed dive punish. Lmb dmg ramping up the longer you stay in her range would also drive the idea in.

(even though it does that now but everyone just plays with the orbs)

[hazy forge]

I could drop my suggestions for Eva again if the council would like, I've already done twice b4 in megathread so I just dont wanna clutter it

[molten ore]

I look at Eva and I think dommy mommy, I play against eva and I think school bully that holds your head underwater.

I don't feel like her kit meshes in gameplay (visually is fine) with her character design

[cunning terrace]

Happy birthday safelocked

[molten ore]

Yes drop your takes! This ain't just the Miles show

[modern willow]

Always appreciate these.

[molten ore]

ITS A BIRTHDAY

HAPPY DAY OF BIRTH

[nocturne glacier]

yeah happy birthday jess!

[nocturne glacier]

I did drop some previously but it was in an old feedback thread that a.) is now closed, and b.) needs updated with more, 1 moment

[hazy forge]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESS

And I'll just make like single sentence idea on changes for Eva, just because I have rehashed a lot of it b4 in greater detail

[nocturne glacier]

Here's some unresolved incorrect tooltips since my last post, some are bumps from that post and some are entirely new:

i've worked on this since last patch so there is a chance some of these got fixed and I just simply didn't notice

oops

updating something in it

[scarlet ore]

Hudson ult lacks mention of the new Janks

[nocturne glacier]

will add it to the list and reupload

[modern willow]

Lol, thanks for the birthday...wishes...

[nocturne glacier]

there we go

oh the brall dash haste one was fixed this patch

just checked

that can be omitted lol

rest of these should still be applicable

[hazy forge]

Eva changes:

-nerf dash cd
-nerf base ms
-remove slow while tethering orb and buff the ms it gibes
(These 3 changes ALONE would make it so she is one of the slower/immobile hunters by default while rewarding good orb movement consistently. In fights you constantly play around orbs.

-nerf orb healing/dmg
-add cc/utility to orb(maybe if allies stand in it they get a damage amp/ms amp while if enemies in it long enough they either are anti/slow/grounded)

-tether enemy buff dmg (due to her fighting ability/mobility getting hit elsewhere, her tether is where she can play into the "1vn" factor that TC prioritizes.)
-make her tether heal allies/damage enemies if they are in between her and someone else (due to her being slower/more immobile in general, this will reward good positioning and at least provide a cool playstyle of trying to play around moving orbs/positioning to maximize tether)

Hopefully that wasn't too long

[nocturne glacier]

i'll bring up more tooltips as I find them but that's what I got right now

[scarlet ore]

I like how these are basically the same things i want for her.

[potent rapids]

why would they make her slower? what

[scarlet ore]

Why not

[hoary swift]

One thing I wanna bring up is ranked. Being forced to be completely solo gm+ feels really bad. The game is simply so much more fun with friends.

I literally tried to keep myself out of gm for as long as possible simply to continue playing with a friend. Like id basically throw game solo no filling with jin. Like I get why yall would do it, it just make it feel like you're punished for reaching gm, and that punishment is your fun being taken away. Having to use an ult to play with friends feels so dumb.

[potent rapids]

she barely has mobility

[hazy forge]

Something they have mentioned before is they like her being slow

[hazy forge]

It comes back with constantly moving orbs and staying in it. You want to be similar speed to b4, constantly move your orb

Let me add buff ms orb gives, I thought i wrote that

Oh wait I did, it is 3rd line

[potent rapids]

the same orb that gets one shotted by anything

[hazy forge]

It would make her SO much harder to play

[hazy forge]

If constantly moving it, harder to hit imo

Rn you just throw it out and damage stick someone

[scarlet ore]

They should let her bash someones head in with the orb

[molten ore]

It just comes down to whether we want the game to be fun for us, or fun for new players. With the current matchmaking and low playerbase 2 gm+ players would just run down the entire lobby and make it no fun for anyone else. Source: Literally me a few times over the past few weeks when I got a player I knew on my team. We just ran everyone down and out-hands'd them

[hazy forge]

Also idk if #'s still same, but with double quick I had a like 3.8 dash timer... I never felt like I wasn't mobile on her but that is anecdotal exp

[nocturne glacier]

true + real

[potent rapids]

literally noone builds quick blade

unless they are trolling

[hazy forge]

Guess im trolling

[nocturne glacier]

hey hey bgh exists

[hazy forge]

I haven't touched her in a minute due to direction she has gone, I find her just so lame of a playstyle

And the suggestions I through out was spit balling, they obvs dont have to do everything and make tweeks along the way. It just would change "throw orb and pray I outlive someone by stat checking" playstyle she has rn that i just find lame

[hoary swift]

This is true. It just feels really bad.

[potent rapids]

i mean jess said shes middle of the pack in tom's stream

[hazy forge]

What are they doing nowadays?

[potent rapids]

rampage power user is most optimal

[hazy forge]

Power user shocks me, rampage makes sense cause you can fully stake it easily

[modern willow]

There's a few things adjusted in internal playtests; feeling better (to me) right now. Weirdly hard to talk through it without going into 1.0 changes.

Think it's more central to Hunters, yeah. Adding more defensive Powers is fine, but probably insufficient (given distribution, usual wind-up requirements for Powers given their sharp outputs, Power preferences.)

[hazy forge]

I mean I never said she was bad or anything, I've just said I find her playstyle lame 😅

[potent rapids]

i mean shes middle of the pack at best, jess said she was middle of pack in toms stream earlier

if they nerf her orbs, i would sugest buffing travel time for wall and ult

maybe transfer dmg to the tether instead

[scarlet ore]

That is what Eva players want yes.

[hazy forge]

That sounds gas, id be hella down

[hazy forge]

I suggested this as well, 100%

[potent rapids]

ii mean u can literally WASD her Q and ult

[nocturne glacier]

I need to put the tom kick interview on in the back while this chat's going on

[potent rapids]

one of the best chats imo

[nocturne glacier]

interesting

[modern willow]

Eva's playrate even at her terrible winrate was high (but yeah, +1 to OC's note.) I do think given that, I'm not super excited to prioritize kit adjustments on her over some of the others, but noted the callouts here, for sure.

[modern willow]

Yeah, this is still the trade.

[molten ore]

👍

[nocturne glacier]

Speaking of hunter kit adjustments, I don't know if you can share much about this but I'd be very curious: What exactly are the goals for the Joule rework? I feel like we've heard a lot about the other 3 but not much about Joule

[molten ore]

fwiw I'm completely okay with the solo q restrictions once the playerbase gets to a point where entire lobbies are master/gm+

I think a lot of the issues we currently have will go away on their own at larger player counts

I think the only thing actually stopping me from queueing ranked is that it's babysitting simulator right now. Which should solve itself as players come

[nocturne glacier]

Miles have you been playing norms?

[molten ore]

nope I've been doing Arena, Ranked Arena, Scrims

[nocturne glacier]

Ahh I see

[molten ore]

I can't stand ranked trios rn lmao

[noble harness]

is there any word on fixing the fairly game breaking bug of saros RMB constantly not working

[shadow salmon]

bump

[modern willow]

Sure - you probably remember some of the discussion around it being hard to nerf Joule without it feeling difficult to play her, game feel-wise. At the same time, a lot of the playing against complaints have been around not being able to respond to her, or her free escape with Ult (and mostly used as an escape.) It's notes like that.

[scarlet ore]

I love Ranked Arena. Genuinely the most fun ive had in the last few months of vive

[modern willow]

Carbine not getting his Dash reset is actually a balance lever. Have talked to his designer to add it to the Dash or Passive tooltip.

[shadow salmon]

👍

[potent rapids]

she said on tom's chat that most of it is getting fixed in QA

same with elluna

[modern willow]

Fixed the Kingpin boss hook bug as of this upcoming patch.

[soft current]

is this a suggestion or confirmed?

[molten ore]

I'm cool with this but I do have my reservations about the dash reset system having exceptions and the clarity issues that can cause.

[noble harness]

big for the program im very tired of losing fights because i cant use my primary damage ability although this bug is so egregious its definitely hotfix worthy and has been in the game since his release...

[modern willow]

It's a suggestion post.

[soft current]

eva is so cool i hope not much is changed except the lvl 4s adjusted

[shadow salmon]

ye this is wat i was thinking

[modern willow]

Yeah, we're talking about it.

[shadow salmon]

it went from a universal system to a balancing lever

[scarlet ore]

Has there been talk about adding more of those "Soft cd resets" on other characters as well and getting rid of the Global one

[modern willow]

For now, at least want it to be reflected.

[hazy forge]

Oh 100% over other's as well I agree. I also feel making her harder would effect her playrate as well. Just some of my thoughts regarding her :))

[nocturne glacier]

Ooooh, very neat I can say I have similar feelings sometimes vs. her so I'm glad to see that's the thought process

[scarlet ore]

Feels the "reset" thing should have just been built into everyones kit in the first place.

[nocturne glacier]

Especially the ult, I think it's really lame it just gets used as a "get out of jail free" card when she messes up

[soft current]

i do think the ult dealing this much wisp damage is a problem

[modern willow]

Yeah, exactly.

[soft current]

if shrike cant do it, carbine shouldnt be able to either

[molten ore]

Oh yeah I was curious as to what you guys think about Carbine's ult resetting on wisps when similar interactions have been removed in the past for being unhealthy.

namely Brall R lol

[soft current]

shrike ult reset on wisps 🤔 🔥

current patch might be my fav since launch btw, very fun, just wanted to mention that

[modern willow]

Maybe the Shrike buff she actually needed.

Nice.

[molten ore]

My opinion is that no ability should reset on killing wisps. It completely bypasses the minigame of protecting/aggressing for wisps. Carbine is a giga Elluna counter for this reason. Him existing practically means she has no passive.

[soft current]

I have some things to say about elluna

[nocturne glacier]

OOOH ALSO I DON'T THINK I GOT TO NOTE THIS LAST TIME

[soft current]

may i ask how shes performing in the eyes of the devteam? @modern willow

*elluna balance wise

[modern willow]

We're looking at Saros and Elluna as part of the first group of Hunters to prioritize additional bugfixes for.

And yeah, what OC said - aware of RMB and portal issues. Not sure how difficult they are yet. We'll find out.

[potent rapids]

[molten ore]

But also on the higher end what this means is that unless you have an Oath who's willing to give his entire shield to protect a wisp, you can't wisp res because Carbine will immediately pop ult to secure the kill because of the crazy value that has.

I myself will burn ult just to secure a wisp because not only will I get an extra shot for "free" but because the ult is on a super short cooldown anyway with double tech. It feels like a strict upgrade to myth's ult.

[noble harness]

my goat ty

[nocturne glacier]

The Felix changes this patch were greatly appreciated, it felt like it closes the gap between damage and tank just a tiny bit (tech helm is an option now because you don't run OOM instantly!)

[modern willow]

Elluna for the first time isn't top 2 at all MMRs. Though even when she hasn't been top 1 or 2, Discord/high MMR players have mentioned how weak she feels.

My thought is now just - let's fix the backpack issues first, because I wonder how much of this perception is really because of the inconsistency as opposed to her actual power.

[soft current]

this would be more oppresive imo

[modern willow]

We've also buffed her a bunch over the years because the perception's been so different. But yeah.

[soft current]

I personally think with trios opposed to squads, ellunas whole assasin / resurrect playstyles got gutted, there is less chaos to thrive from in fights and teams tend to focus you when ur going for the wisp resurrect, for her offensive playstyle its also very difficult to find backline pickoffs now that with trios people are more coordinated

she also suffers from having 0 counterplay to characters like Eva and Oath

[hazy forge]

Suggestion

[hazy forge]

:O what makes Eva cool for you?

[soft current]

Her kit design just feels very healthy, it does what its supposed to and hitting Ultimate - pull combos feels immaculate, she fills her stationary healer role perfectly and has clear weaknesses (mobility / range), she provides options in competitive to not run oath and instead run her as protector

[scarlet ore]

Interesting since the majority of people seem to disagree

[soft current]

all of this is nice, she only has the issue that playing certain characters into her is near impossible

[modern willow]

Well..

[soft current]

jin for instance cant do anything to her

but its the same thing with elluna against oath / joule against oath

[modern willow]

I don't think Discord is a great place to make a tally of perception.

[shut pecan]

omg these discussions still happen? That's super cool, thanks for still doing this Jess

[modern willow]

Hey! Yeah, really enjoy them.

[scarlet ore]

Theres a fly harassing me

Help

[modern willow]

And we usually get cool suggestions here too, so it's fun to talk shop.

I believe in you. You can catch it.

[hazy forge]

From fulfilling certain roles I can see your points, I think for me I just see a diff perspective but def appreciate your insight :))

[modern willow]

Just means we need more Hunters. 🙂

Tested a bunch of new kits this morning.

[soft current]

I hosted a form where i got NA and EUs best players (subjective / objective) to vote on Hunter Power-Levels, would the devteam be interested in the results from this? Here is a example image:

[modern willow]

We already ask this question on the survey!

The magnitude of responses matters, so all good. But yeah, we both agree this matters.

[soft current]

this is also a funny one

[potent rapids]

having fun without us 😦

[soft current]

im looking to gather around 50 responses

[modern willow]

Soon soon.

[potent rapids]

[slender harness]

TTK too high?

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-no-angry-steve-carell-michael-scott-gif-5606969

TTK is in much better place than it was months ago and the game feels much less than "oops I've blinked, now I'm dead", so please don't shorten it

[soft current]

shorten?

are there plans to make the TTK faster?

that is the complete opposite of what people want imo

[fervent parrot]

Jess said before they were planning to make ttk longer

[scarlet ore]

The instant panick in the chat

[soft current]

beautiful

[fervent parrot]

I dunno where you read the opposite

[reef pilot]

i think theres always confusion around TTK descriptors lol

[fervent parrot]

TC is planning to remove powers????

[hearty slate]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-no-angry-steve-carell-michael-scott-gif-5606969

[scarlet ore]

Tc is planning removing spiking 😱

[undone sierra]

game saved if so

[shut pecan]

Is there any word on Dash desync bugs getting fixed soon? There was a little while that it felt very rare, but now I'm getting it like every game again.

[fervent parrot]

Myth is getting freeze ult??

[nocturne glacier]

wait i tabbed out tf happened in here LMFAO

[scarlet ore]

I was here and have 0 idea 👍

[fervent parrot]

We're just saying things which aren't true

It's a fun and time honoured past time of this discord server

[slender harness]

Ive been trying to read the same message about 6 times but discord kept scrolling down every time I've blinked, I feel you 😼

[shut pecan]

This is like my only request btw, Shiv's got a lot of bugs but if at least this one gets fixed, I'm happy for now

[reef pilot]

it happens with joule too but generally only near the start of the match

[modern willow]

We've been looking at these for a while. These are harder to fix, admittedly.

[nocturne glacier]

nobody would go on the internet and lie

come on

[fervent parrot]

Definitely not in lokivive

[modern willow]

But yeah, we have movement corrects in a specific bug bucket, and Shiv's at the top.

[shut pecan]

It was explained to me once, and it certainly sounded like it'd require a lot of effort. Glad to hear y'all have been looking at a fix, that's a big relief.

[modern willow]

Never change, Discord.

[shut pecan]

Let's goooooo

[modern willow]

Yeah. Our gameplay engineering lead's focused on these.

[fervent parrot]

Never will, birthday girl

[full crypt]

Safelocked what're your thoughts on double tech blade? do you think it's healthy for the game?

[soft current]

Yo so my friends all hated this idea but are we ever getting a stormshift where the entire map is filled with explosive barrels like at magebog? 🔥

[nocturne glacier]

honestly peak

[modern willow]

Sounds terrifying.

[nocturne glacier]

i am such a fan of new storm shifts btw i really hope we get more with 1.0

[hoary swift]

I heard smth about buffing bishop in tom kicks stream. Pls pls pls do not, ty. Just wanna say this since I really dont want bishop buffed.

[full crypt]

tbh I'd prefer an entire biome filled with the spinning traps that are in team rockets lair

[nocturne glacier]

or post-1.0

[reef pilot]

can we add screamers to that shift please

[shut pecan]

I know you too well. There was no way the real Madly wrote this. Where is the real Madly and what have you done with him?!

[modern willow]

Specifically the ones that insta-knocked you.

Lol

Or the ones that screamed from across the map.

[reef pilot]

I HATE SCREAMERS PLEASE DELETE SCREAMERS AHHHH im a screamer now

[slender harness]

That's something I'd love to see TC stance of.
Double X items because of the rerolls seems very unhealhty for the game.

[modern willow]

Adding a Madly screamer to the game.

[shut pecan]

let's gooooo

[fervent parrot]

Since 1.0 is going to be something you intend new players to check out the game for, and to maybe have old players revisit the game for
What do you hope a new or returning players first experiences are with 1.0?

[sudden dock]

a smiling cat faced pineapple

in screamer form

[soft current]

giant vouch for this btw, buffing her is fine aslong as the rmb is tuned down

[fervent parrot]

(definitely not asking to think about what sorta experience to sell with the wiki lol)

[modern willow]

I think it's..fine. Have seen some busted clips, have seen others have fun with it. Either way, this also gets into 1.0 territory, but heard if you're worried about it.

[slender harness]

Good reminder, is TC consideribg to host wiki on wiki.supervive.com?

[safe pumice]

Buuut... her stats are kinda not very good! :((

[soft current]

i think bishop might have some wonky stats, the top players are wayyyy too oppresive on her, outside of that she does seem very meh

[scarlet ore]

@modern willow sorry for ping but never got an answer to these few (they are a reply chain)

[modern willow]

I don't remember talking about Bishop today.

[fervent parrot]

And for that note - any hint what kinda marketing angle you might be pushing for? I remember there being a big question mark with open beta about what to market the genre as

[soft current]

LOL

[fervent parrot]

No we'll stick with wiki.gg

[reef pilot]

only issue with this imo is that i have played with some pretty high ranked people (plat/diamond) who do not know it exists. if its the most powerful option for a hunter it creates a knowledge gap that i dont think is fair unless it is turned into a proper mechanic

[safe pumice]

Oh btw, have you ever confirmed if being able to shift out of bishop punch is intended or not?

[slender harness]

I hope that instead of going for biggest streamers theyll push for mid level streamers as it seems to provide more of long term player influx than the spike and die influx of top streamers

[soft current]

i really loved the streamer tournament yall did on beta release, but i think it didnt properly showcase supervives gameplay, would be cool to get a mix of supervive content creator + streamer for 1.0 (Tom kick + Caedrel etc) if another tourny is hosted

[modern willow]

Oh, thanks for bumping this note; I missed it.

[scarlet ore]

Here is another one relating to it

[full crypt]

suggestion: when you are jumping off of a rail that you are grinding, you always go towards where your mouse is pointing - this is really counter intuitive for players who play with WASD enhance with cursor- you could be holding S and your mouse is "north" of your character and you'll just get yeeted north

[fervent parrot]

This sorta specifics probably is more for closer to release but I think the tournament itself was right to do only streamers
But I think the "play ranked before the tournament to get points" should instead be playing with community players to learn the game better, which then pays off in the tournament

[candid hull]

REALLLL

[fervent parrot]

The reason for this is because WASD is used to speed up or slow down on the grind rail when holding sidebar

[soft current]

i just think (respectfully) it made supervive look awful.... people were WALKING around the map, no mechanics were used, they would glide and instantly get spiked and die.... entire twitch chats were making fun of the game and everyone was absolutely clueless to how fun supervive actually is and how its supposed to be played.

[modern willow]

My dumb diplomatic answer: I agree that we should either support or it cut it.

[molten ore]

Actually I did want to talk about rails for a second. I am constantly getting sent the wrong way or being stopped dead in my tracks on rails seemingly just because I attached to them weirdly

[modern willow]

One or the other will happen at 1.0.

[shut pecan]

I vote support it, but y'all know how I feel about items: The more build diversity and theorycrafting capabilities, the better.

[soft current]

I think caedrels sponsorship for instance was amazing, their group played and cared to learn about the game, it was awesome to watch and many friends of mine joined supervive based on that

[shut pecan]

Do what y'all want, it isn't exactly critical to my experience

[reef pilot]

i think it is easier to balance a strong techblade around only being able to make one, personally!

[slender harness]

Especially that double items are a "hidden knowledge" that you won't get grasp on until someone tells you how to do it

[molten ore]

Get Los Ratones to play supervive together for 1.0 I am dead serious. Their viewership is insane

[slender harness]

Double vamp, double haste or double movement, so boring

[modern willow]

Hahah, Los Ratones is fun.

[slender harness]

The random rolls are also unhealthy Imo

[shut pecan]

love those guys

I don't stay in touch with League anymore, but I stay in touch with Los Ratones

[modern willow]

Same.

Alright, I do think I have to run. But noted on the Equipment callouts.

[molten ore]

We could even setup a streamer tournament where they have 1 experienced player coaching each team beforehand

[scarlet ore]

I feel the entire equipment system rn is a little un healthy

[molten ore]

or even playing with them

[modern willow]

Feel free to drop additional notes. I need to go help someone with their computer.

[shut pecan]

Thank you for doing this, Jess. Happy Birthday! Have a great afternoon!

[full crypt]

I presume this is because items are getting a rework?

[molten ore]

I'm the same way. I love those guys

[reef pilot]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY I LOVE SUPERVIVE

[soft current]

Another question related to double-items, are any other items being duplicated? I personally have seen ONLY double tech being ran, nobody gos double mana / omni / quickblade, which i think defeats the original purpose of build variety. Myth having 0 downtime on her arrowrain and 15 seconds on Ultimate CD is a big problem.

[sudden dock]

I hope that's what "the armory" entails and isn't entirely a meta game progression thing

[shut pecan]

Solo no-fill is making me lose my mind, but I'm having a lot of fun, thanks for making it a thing

[slender harness]

Did my message not send

[potent rapids]

that should be solved with armory, think jess kinda hinted at it

[slender harness]

Especially with double items not known for most of players, it's hidden knowledge that you can't grasp until someone tells you how to do it

[potent rapids]

dont quote me on it tho

[reef pilot]

i play double quick joule in ranked but tech/quick for comp stuff