Season Zero: Saros Arrives, Leveling Adjustments, and Hunter Balance Megathread

[surreal aspen]

12 teams in trios is still less than what's on live in both squads and duos (40 on live vs 36 next patch), so the player number doesn't matter so much.

[high pollen]

yeah i understand and in that way i agree. Though i try to consider these things with a healthy gamestate in mind cos considering current game state and playerbase level of play ppl run around and splitoff so much to the point its anear free for all at times. But if we had more players for more stable matches its more about the number of teams moving around the map not the amount of players. I think both of them matter in their own way

Which is why i kinda said dont touch both teamsize & max player count of the lobby at once. Cos judging from changes that devs have made so far. They will overlook alot of things/nuances. Like i have pointed out with other shit, even if not for this i still think u can find value in testing them seperetaly and then combining it and evaluate what the differences are

thats to me the kinda shit they can learn alot from, just like with changes to vault, how you gain mana, how potions are consumed/mana, how many levels of highground there are depending on idk certain areas? Figuring out changes/buffs/nerfs etc that have direct impact on the core gameplay/ what closely surrounds it ( example: mobility throughout the map = core part of the game atleast for now and what surrounds it or is indirectly involved in deciding how good/effective ur gonna be? : map & audio pings for example

So this requires 0 dev time on some crazy big swing yet is usefull for the game currently since we already have discovered big swings dont do shit, they can learn from this accurately since they can compare the results in less skewed ways to when we had more players, and better plan out for future

das just me tho end of yap ig

[hard condor]

this would be fun but the amount of bugs would be biblical

[fierce crystal]

My relatively informed take on his ult is that it'd be a very strong ult of the cd was just cut in half and when you shot it, it shot faster than it does rn.

Cus with hudson's ult he csn get some pretty good picks if the Hudson acts fast. Cus Hudson can 100-30 most hunters in those 4 seconds, then his ult can reel them in.

But his ult is near impossible to hit most of the time. And having a 40 second cd on a hunters ability to get good picks is actually insane.

[hard condor]

Like the ability completely cancells itself from opening the glider for a split second

[fierce crystal]

Maybe they meant for us to be perma grounded while the ult is on someone or some bs. So we aren't supposed to be able to glide anyways

[hard condor]

Maybe we should be allowed to glide during the pull and show dominance with the cancell

[fierce crystal]

Show our dominance by turning our ult into kp's hook :)

[sharp olive]

https://tenor.com/view/omni-man-invincible-look-what-they-need-to-mimic-a-fraction-of-our-power-gif-25672186

[fierce crystal]

It's better than kp hook cus it'd be cooler fr

[sharp olive]

i'm all for fun mechanic on Hudson because the character looks pretty boring ngl

[fierce crystal]

He's a pretty 1 dimensional character. But it's pretty fun jist shredding people imo. But he lacks so many tools that he kinda just insta dies when the Hudson makes the smallest mistake.

Huddy prob getting a rework at some point. Idk what they're planning, it would be nice if they kept somewhat of the same power fantasy but I can understand that being difficult

[high pollen]

they could just keep him way he is rn bro. He might simply become more/less strong depending on what kinda champs release and other shit. If champs atm are anywhere on scale of 1-10 in strenght somewhere between idk 3-8 i think its alright from my pov atleast

[fierce crystal]

They could keep him the way he is. But they would still need to buff stuff. Which what they'd need to buff has been said a billion times at this point.

But hudsons current design is very problematic. He's more oppressive than shrike at lower levels. If he is even slightly strong he becomes "broken/op" according to a bunch if people. Then his design is eay too 1 dimensional, and they could for sure do so so much more with him than they are rn.

[sharp olive]

to me main issue with Hudson is not that i can be bad in different meta, i just find him really boring to play / play against. And a lot of player don't play this hunter for this reason.

It's ok to not love every hunter gameplay design, but he feels so off, like he's not from the same game.

[high pollen]

idk i never struggled with any champ besides just learning how to play agianst it and then it was fine to me lol

so i prefer to just u know wait until those changes hit in w/e way or game is better state

u buff him now more ppl play game in 2 months now the buff might suck or make him broken type beat

idk anymore its a mess

[vocal kelp]

I’m on the opposite side, I think I would love for the game to go 15-20 teams, obviously not possible with current playerbase but I would like the storm to actually be more open than closed and having a multitude of teams and things to do around the map

[spice island]

I just love having more players on the map in general more players = more fights = more skill expression and if rank mattered = more rp however I’m sure there’s a point where you have too many teams to the point of resources being too scarce

[high pollen]

ppl wont learn the game ever in this case way too much variables but i do like the idea on its own since maybe ur same and like thought having to go into macro n shit rather than we kill team> do i go a or b now

[vocal kelp]

Apex has 20 teams of 3

[high pollen]

it might might be near impossible to track so many teams n shit right but that would in turn free up ppls mind to focus on macro without the tracking i think a change like that has as many upsides as downsides

[high pollen]

cant compare

even if they willing to change map for it they can barely keep up atm with bugs n stuff like doing patchnites

Idk random thought but.. what if there was 20(random number rlly could be more or less) but on start of game u divide map in 4 sections of 5 teams. The winners go to final section or the rest of the map or some shit like that

[surreal aspen]

@vocal kelp @spice island

If you have too many players in a game then the game becomes too chaotic and takes away skill expression. This is why other competitive genres are either 1v1 (fighting games (including platform fighter singles formats), CCGs, some sports like Tennis, etc.) or two teams (MOBAs, shooters, doubles in platform fighters, etc.).

How much is too much? Our current map is probably too small to support 60 players, but could probably support 45 if they widened the drop widths slightly.

[high pollen]

more chance for noobs to be secluded from veterans + get more gameplay and actually get chance to fight more XD

lowkey meming i wouldnt want that change to be implemented myself xd

[spice island]

thats exactly what I said in my post

[high pollen]

I think thats generally true, but while saying that just try to be wary of not casting a " its iimpossible" to make it not chaotic even with many team. The how why and when matter alot with things like this. I think in game like supervive with THIS many powers + consumables + champs + envoiremental effects etc is not comparable to a shooter br game either

so simply put more teams/players + bigger map likely = cancer

[spice island]

Alright I’m seriously curious as to how the devs view oath right now and I’d love to hear how they feel about him right now

I feel like we have collectively agreed he’s op and not much happens to him

[worldly yarrow]

A good Start would be to fix his bug where everytime he uses shield bash during his shift he gain back important part of his CD on Shift

[spice island]

Oh trust me I plan on bringing this up

[eager matrix]

I don't like that he can attack with shield up :))

Getting beaten in a corner while completely helpless to break his shield is the worst feeling in supervive bar none

[spice island]

It amazes me he can do everything with his shield up

Like he can cook you breakfast 1v4 an entire team parry and slam you into a wall all while his shield is up

[static fractal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1187315677053341788/1353199754917580881/copy_B735AD49-D63C-41E6-BE3A-9B2498A49AB2_1.gif

[spice island]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1353229852504883261

[subtle rapids]

[frigid trout]

No thread tonight? 👀

[hard condor]

:(

[woven steeple]

Ahhhhh.

I was on a plane, and now I’m here at JMo’s place with a few others.

Lol.

I’ll take a look at everyone’s comments! But I’ll likely be able to spend more time really tomorrow.

[hard condor]

🫡

Ive been making another fat hudson post detailing as much as I can

[subtle rapids]

sounds good!

[hard condor]

Its about as big as hudson himself

[unkempt fossil]

Where J-Mo, he doesn't DM me anymore :L

Tell him I miss him D:

[distant tangle]

i also miss JMO :c

Barry has no one to play with anymore

[unkempt fossil]

Return of Barry?

[frigid trout]

My #1 Question that I hope you can answer: Confirm/Deny Eva has an auto aiming LMB? Similar to Moira or Scarlet Witch

bc the teaser showed art of what definitely looked like her draining someone directly, no projectile

[fierce crystal]

Hudsons wires are super weird, and I wish they were more punishing. You can basically jump over his wires, then a lot of the time they take so long to deploy that even though I placed them before someone ulted onto me, they'd take ao long to deploy that the person would jist ult straight through my wires.
Then they dont really do much dmg to any hunter. Only does 250 when kp directly dashes into them, whoch is nothing. And basically every hunter can jist ignore them, the only hunter who can't ignore them is joule, but pretty sure she has a bug that let's her just go through hudsons wires.

1 thing I'd really like is max hp scaling dmg. So that his wires don't just delete an elluna that dashes into them, cus the damage would be about the same percentage of hp as if an path dashed into them.

Basically, I just wish his wires were more punishing and you couldn't just ignore them.

[subtle rapids]

it's funny, i'm pretty sure jumping over them does the same damage as walking through them

unless you're on high ground

I won't argue that Hudson wires aren't very good but I will say I don't know if the answer is to make them do more damage, because they're mostly a deterrent, like "if i try to engage my engage will be halted and I'm going to get beamed by hudson LMB before I can reach anyone" and Hudson LMB will probably kill someone the 2 seconds they're in that wire anyways

[fierce crystal]

Just so you know, it doesn't kill most hunters in those 2 seconds they're in the wires. Only the reqlly squishy hunters.

Like a kp can literally dash into the wires then walk out like it's nothing then even when I start sparing him the second he dashes into them barely even half his health is gone. Then he can stun me which on Hudson it is literally impossible to dodge the stun without using your dash. Which is awesome cus then you're literally a sitting duck for 12 fucking seconds.

[subtle rapids]

KP would be the exception to this rule, yes, because he traditionally builds a helm/his passive gives HP

If you're playing someone like Felix or Brall, it's "I can't interact with this character until the wires are cleared or I find a flank angle" which is how it should act

well, probably the healthiest version of wires, anyway

also if you did half of KP's health for the time he was in the wire, is that not a valid punishment?

[fierce crystal]

No cus like he can just stun me then kill me. He gets to kill me, while I don't get to kill him. Meaning the "punishment" isn't equal between the 2 hunters.

[subtle rapids]

then use dash to dodge it and then all KP can do is spam LMB or R to kill you because he blew dashes to get on hudson in the first place

he used all of his options at that point

he dumped more of his kit than you did, so he wins that advancement

[fierce crystal]

Something else, please please please revert hudsons dash cd. There was literally no reason to increase it, it ended up being a pretty significant nerf that he really didn't need. And the 25% dash reset is not a good trade off for the increase in cd.

[fierce crystal]

I'm pretty sure I said why "just dash to dodge it" isn't a valid reason why it's fine.

[subtle rapids]

12 second sitting duck just like KP with no dash/slam?

KP should be a hudson counter anyways

hook and whatnot

backshot damage

that kinda thing

[fierce crystal]

Also hudsons dash is actually too slow to dodge kp slam a lot of the time. Like you have to dash directly when the kp starts slamming to actually dodge otherwise the kp can use his dashes to basically for sure hit the stun on you.

Then kp has his hook which is actually so annoying to dodge on Hudson. Cus you have to be 2 times as far away from his hook as it'd seem.

[subtle rapids]

if a KP is in your wires, you can safely assume he is going to dash+Q

so be ready

[fierce crystal]

Yea um, 2 dashes? He has 2 dashes. And if a kp doves in and misses everything then they should kind of just die at that point.

[subtle rapids]

one dash is pretty small and he's likely blowing both to reach you in the first place, assuming you spaced decently

unless you're putting wires directly on top of yourself

[subtle rapids]

and he does

[fierce crystal]

Bro you literally have to put wires directly on top of yourself as hudson. Due to deploy time they will literally have no impact if you don't.

[fierce crystal]

that's literally what I was saying. That he does and he should.

[subtle rapids]

wires should not be a reactionary measure, they should be a preventative measure before an engage is made, putting them closer to hudson yes, putting them directly on top, no (if melees can hit you while standing in wire, what's the point?) gotta put it between divers and hudson, enough to where they can't reach you but hudson can. There's definitely a point where Hudson wins that matchup, assuming he dodges hook and saves dash for slam, but yes KP does counter him in a lot of ways

i don't want this to become an argument in a general megathread so i'll leave my thoughts on the subject at that

[fierce crystal]

Dude I am not asking for them to be reactionary. But they take so long to deploy it isn't uncommon for me to literally place my wires before a bishop even ults then she still gets through them. And that is just not fine.

As i have said many many times. His wires take so long to deploy ita like the game wants you to know the future to place them where you need.

Also a kp can actually defend himself. A hudson can't defend himself if someone comes out of nowhere. You used your dash to dodge a force dodge, now you have literally no way of defending yourself. Wires, yea right, like that'll work. They will just get destroyed instantly then unless you literally aren't going to move from that location(which in a br you almost for sure are) then they just don't really matter much.

[woven steeple]

I will. We’re getting brunch today.

He’s doing a lot at once, so heads-down.

[woven steeple]

Also..Barry?

[distant tangle]

you should play with barry sometime jess!

i heard JMO liked playing with barry

[woven steeple]

Talked to Design about when we’d want to look at Hudson. I mentioned you’ve been sharing notes - might want your greatest hits to send together.

[woven steeple]

I have to bring this up this morning.

[woven steeple]

Can’t confirm/deny - but if you’re part of the Creator Early Access, you can find out. 🙂

[restive estuary]

@woven steeple I mentioned this in my feedback post for the trios test, where I think the pve/objective side of the game could use some help. As much as I love the PVP (and i do really love it) Almost every game I play these days just feels like a huge multi team area game where everyone ignores objectives and throws themselves at the other teams until 1 is left standing. After a while of this, it starts to making everything feel super samey. My question is, is this something your guys are thinking about and are there plans to make objectives/the map in general more enticing and interesting beyond "hey theres a team over there, lets go kill them" ?

[woven steeple]

Question - do you find yourself ignoring objectives?

I mostly ask because I find most things contested in my games, but still interested.

[restive estuary]

if im playing solo, I do because my team is off rushing the the nearest enemy team. If I have my friends with me, I can get us to do them.

[woven steeple]

Got it.

There’s an underlying thing there around - how much of that dynamic would change if we changed the PVE encounter?

There’s a coordination tax that I think you’re pointing out, for example.

[hard condor]

Its around 10k characters long at this point. Going over issues me and other hudsons players have, what we like currently. And why we think certain things should change. Also multiple rework ideas and detailing the upsides and downsides of them. It might take me some time to get it all together tho

When I post it id also try and get converation started to get a broader perspective since we are biased as hudson mains

[woven steeple]

I will always say shorter is better, especially if themes are repeating themselves.

[restive estuary]

I feel like most people REALLY like pvp, so i dont even think buffing objectives would change much, but I think it would be nice to give other avenues towards getting stronger. In theory, that is what objectives do, but in practice alot of the time, objectives just feel like a bait to waste your time.

[woven steeple]

But appreciate it. Will take it all, just want to say it helps to deliver the main points so it’s faster to action on.

[sharp olive]

Hey ! @woven steeple i made my first hunter concept yesterday. And since i'm not an old SV veteran (only since september 2024) idk if a lot of ppl already made a ton of hunter concept and if some of them were useful. Even if it's not the case, i'm having fun doing it anyway.

Have you already created all of the hunter for the official release ? Is there something useful we can do as players except giving feedback on game ?

Speaking of feedback, i'm worried for the state of the game because of a lot of unfixed gamebreaking bug. I'm fully aware that SV is still in beta, but the Oath bug abuse, Touch of life exploit, Jin kit being so bugged, KP still phasing through people after his hook, etc. It's making the game less enjoyable each day because how unfair/unfun it feels.

My hopes are high for Trios and still trust TC for your hardwork. I'm hyped to see what changes are coming in the future

[hard condor]

Will have a condenced tldr at the begining on it of course but will also have the explanations for why we think certains ways.

[woven steeple]

Right, I do think it’s not really a matter of power.

[woven steeple]

But tell me more about what feels like a waste of time.

And presumably it’s not that you find it a waste of time, but that you’re having trouble convincing the team you’re soloing into that it’s not a waste of time.

[sharp olive]

Also, Coldfang is gonna be turbo broken for trios

[restive estuary]

Its a bit of both, depending on the objective. Like if its exp soul, it feels pretty worth to take for me, but if its a random vault day 2 or something, i really feel like we are falling behind the team that is wipes squads. But even with some of the good souls, i will see them sitting untaken for a whole day(mainly in ranked, which might have to do with players needing to run people down to gain rp). I guess what im envisioning as a better version of supervive, is objectives being the catalyst for drawing teams together and getting them to fight it out for the big reward. My main reason for bringing this up is, I cant really see people sticking with sv for 10k hours if games are these endless pvp fests. Its very fun in the beginning, but that fun only last so long when each game blends into the next.

[woven steeple]

I get a pretty wide range of bugs at different severities (the truth of all live service games.) Will say there’s some this group doesn’t call out that we focus on, and ones that hit more players more that we prioritize first. But I’ll take footage on some of these - I saw the Oath one for example, but not the others.

[distant tangle]

There used to be hunter design events - there were 2 of them and people would pitch a 5 minute presentation of a hunter idea to Bidbood and JMO and got some feedback on it
The devs said they enjoyed it and it was helpful at times!

[restive estuary]

and to be clear, im not saying the game needs to nerf pvp. I think the pvp is amazing. I just think pvp having more meaning/purpose would make games feel more interesting over a long timespan.

[woven steeple]

Is your take then that most people in your games undervalue Souls?

[sharp olive]

For example, for Jin i wanted to give him a try yesterday. The result is that in 3 games, i got stunlock and couldn't use any abilites 2 times. Even as 900h+ player, this just don't want to make me play this hunter again. And that's sad

[restive estuary]

I would say yes, outside of teleport soul, and maybe exp soul.

[lost dune]

Honestly even with a premade, we literally do not care about souls outside of Nightstalker, XP, and sometimes Teleport.
Everything else is "guess we'll take it since we're nearby" or "maybe we get kills on people trying to take it".

The few times I'm not with a full premade, this holds particularly true.

[sharp olive]

And for the other bug abuses, to prevent any more harm (other players abusing it), i can send you in DM what's the issue

[woven steeple]

Always preferred - thanks Khyzaro.

The quality of repro goes a long way, too. Lemur figured out likely reasons he was running into the flashing bug and that was the first time we were able to pinpoint the why and fix it.

Was just last week, I think. So yeah, will take any and all details like that, too.

[woven steeple]

This is actually an example of one that doesn’t have a clear repro.

It might be related to network latency is the closest we’ve gotten to.

[woven steeple]

Roger. Want to test something then. Let’s say every Soul is turned off except those two, and those two are the only ones that spawn every game. Do you think you would still run into issues convincing your team to do them if you weren’t premade?

[sharp olive]

considering it's the only hunter i ever had this issue, i would think it's his Q1 and Q2 states that are the issues.

considering he can Q1 and glide to keep his Q2 in the air, getting stun might override the basic mechanic and replace it by the "use an ability, glide mid animation, it cancel the ability". This result by not be able to use any ability because the game still think you're stunned. The only way i found to fix this issue, is to Q1 again in the abyss, reseting his "character stun/not stunned state". i'm no gamedev but that's what i suppose it happen.

[hard condor]

I have few major bugs rn on hudson. Ult doesnt give kill credit to hudson. So ult elims dont sometimes count and boss executes are credited to the last team that hit the boss. Ult also cancells instantly from glider

[restive estuary]

Possibly, but i think the convincing would be much easier with those two.

[royal lark]

I strongly agree. I got really frustrated that we didn't hear anything about macro changes in the fireside chat which I expressed here https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1354892939809001632

[woven steeple]

I think as long as you can continuously replicate the bug with steps, no worries on trying to theorize the game logic.

[royal lark]

Game feels to me like 1) fights for rp 2) for powers 3) for the zone. And sometimes ye you fight for souls but getting them doesn't feel really big
Saying this all as mostly soloQ player

[woven steeple]

Got it. Think that helps.

[restive estuary]

with objectives, I guess im more thinking about is, lets say i have a team of me, and 2 noob friends, and its getting close to end game, and i know the enemy team is TLD. obviously there are going to win a straight fight, but it would be nice to have some other thing i could have my team do that might give us a bit more of an advantage. I think outside of adding some insane buff, the better pvpers will always have the advantage, but something to give you hope to win the underdog fight would be good.

[restive estuary]

Thanks or listening. Love the game and hyped for arc 2. Those are jsut my longer term concerns.

[warped birch]

I don't know if this is known but is there adjustments coming for this ? The HUD gets pretty cluttered on some setups. Or some things I wish could just be disabled (quest progress popups).

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1355172182376054814

[woven steeple]

I think more specifically, the note Timo has is:

• Experiencing low Soul take rate in games (I don’t experience this, but easy for us to check)
• Hard to convince my teammates to take certain Souls that aren’t perceived as worthwhile (likely combat) power - would consider more combat-oriented Soul rewards given that
  (adding assumptions to tie it together)

[woven steeple]

For sure.

[woven steeple]

I will say - I think if TLD is in a lobby, it’s also likely if the Souls are worthy enough, they likely beat you to it.

[restive estuary]

ya in reality, we lost before the drop lol

[woven steeple]

Yeah - and I mainly say that to say designing for high skill variance in a competitive game can lead to other issues.

If there’s a decent chance that the lower skill team can win because they got a Soul, it can feel terrible for the better skill team.

[royal lark]

I feel a bit different. I don't really think that souls matters that much.
Best way to get rp is to fight nonstop (I always think how nidhogg just running around as Brall and fight people). Yeah, when you play really high elo lobby or scrims they matter, but else not really. At least I feel that way

[woven steeple]

I like the thought around it, just want to be careful.

[royal lark]

But why better skill team wants to win through mechanics not also macro/objs side?

[restive estuary]

ya the tld thing was hyperbole, just substitute tld for "team i know is stronger at pvp than mine". I actually want the better pvpers to be favored, it would just also be nice to have other options if im in that underdog situation.

[woven steeple]

I can take the specific note you have in this thread around Quest and Most Wanted UI.

[lost dune]

wouldn't macro fall under mechanics tho?
unless you mean specifically micro mechanics?

[royal lark]

Mechanics to me is only micro

[lost dune]

fighting is more reliable to win, probably.
wiping a team means they're dead gone and aren't coming back.
getting a soul means you just have an advantage in a fight which is all nice and good but if you can wipe a team in the time it takes you to get a soul it might be more efficient to just pvp.

[warped birch]

Thanks! I'd upload a screenshot but I'm away from my PC now.

[restive estuary]

ya I think this is the conclusion most exsperienced players come to.

[lost dune]

especially in squads, souls take a long time

and shit like damage soul is just not worth my time if I'm in a position to be fighting and beating other teams

esp. since they're probably out beating other teams in the meantime if they're not contesting my team at the soul, meaning they're getting a patently tangible power boost (i.e. stats, powers, armor evolutions) while i'm maybe getting a buff that provides a situational advantage if i'm able to get the soul uncontested

[warped birch]

Souls should drop 4 blue armors or something. If it is supposed to be a power increase it should be worth the effort. Green armor when the soul spawns is almost always negligable unless you are homeless

[hard condor]

You know its a poverty run when you get hyped for green armor

[lost dune]

and you're probably not getting soul for free if you're on a poverty run so you might evolve past green armor in the fighting

[woven steeple]

They can (and I usually see them do,) but there’s also usually a breaking point of when winning macro leads to rewards that feel like too much of a checkmate.

[royal lark]

Imo better objectives side of the game would also improve soloQ, to help people know what should/can they go for (not just running around randomly to fight literally anyone, which also makes life harder for noobs, coz they don't do it so fast). I'm not asking to make "kill to win objective", more options is great, but I'm not really big fan of current macro aspects of the game

[lost dune]

better side objectives would be nice tbh
atvl damage soul not being nothingburger would be great

[woven steeple]

My main callout was - if the reward needs to be so strong that you have to be able to close the gap against a team like TLD, that probably is too high a checkmate.

But I get that was an exaggerated example now.

[restive estuary]

there could maybe be a souls buff that you get in addition to the specific soul ability

[lost dune]

tbh non-soul side objectives are kinda whack ATM since sometimes there's junk like kaiju scale or heart from early bosses but then other times there's blink or rewind or replicator and those 2 categories are so incomparable

[royal lark]

I agree with that, I'm not game dev I don't know what's the best update would be. Just saying how I feel

Have you guys ever thought about giving rp for some map objectives? Just curious

[woven steeple]

If you can when you’re able, can you tag me? Will be faster to share the example with the team.

[woven steeple]

Figure this Discord would destroy me for this…

[royal lark]

Fair

[lost dune]

imo objectives should be worthwhile enough that people contest you for them and you get can get RP by wiping them

obv easier said than done

[sharp olive]

Give me the Bungee arena biome already

[royal lark]

So the main point of my frustration is how current playstyle even in ranked is just random fights for rp > everything else

[restive estuary]

I kinda think making placing 1st always give you rp would help with some of these issues

[royal lark]

Feels to me like arams in lol ranked

[restive estuary]

or URF ya lol

[woven steeple]

I need to check win rates for these again, too. I remember there was a point where Damage and Shrapnel were doing well, but I’m sure it’s also changed over time.

[royal lark]

Yes lol

[lost dune]

damage soul just kinda feels useless

[woven steeple]

What I fear is that they’re actually good, but not appreciable.

Yeah.

[lost dune]

also mathematically it's not inspiring

the tooltip lists 60 damage per second for 2 seconds

[restive estuary]

ya I was thinking about this too. Has resurgence completely brainrotted us all?

[lost dune]

assuming the tooltip is correct, 60/s for 2s is abysmal damage from a numerical standpoint

[distant tangle]

you should change damage soul 100%

I hate that it breaks ghost walk

[sharp olive]

since day one of resurgence, i always said that the idea was mid but good if it was only in pubs and not rankeds

[distant tangle]

and bricks myth

[royal lark]

Probably, for some reason people really like to fight for the wind drake in league which don't really gives big buff, but in supervive it's not so inspiring for people

[woven steeple]

Yeah, agree with this.

[distant tangle]

You have to very actively play round a team getting damage soul when you play myth its really annoying and warps the game but only for your character

and getting damage soul feels great not really bc it buffs your damage a lot but because you don't have to worry about someone else having it

[lost dune]

but because you don't have to worry about someone else having it
biggest reason i take most souls tbh

shrapnel is conceptually nice but, at least in duos, fights usually don't go long enough for it to be relevant and i suspect that will not change significantly in trios

[woven steeple]

Sometimes players just need an obvious visual.

[sharp olive]

Just a little funny QoL, make the storm turn red when the Gnarled heart is placed (like it shows in the minimap)

[woven steeple]

I had a similar idea for the storm changing color as it closed so you could communicate the damage ramp. (And the drama.)

[lost dune]

make day 1 storm invisible because day 1 storm is fake and will not hurt you

[sharp olive]

i want the violons music for the last fight, gimme chills

[woven steeple]

A cool summer breeze Day 1.

[sharp olive]

not invisible but, it don't rain day one for example

[lost dune]

speaking of day 1 storm, though, on an actual note.
why does it do virtually nothing?

[distant tangle]

what if the storm blew you around a lot so the day 1 storm could just be distruptive rather than doing damage

[lost dune]

doesn't feel right that I can drop coldfang when 50% of coldfang is in the storm, the first circle is smth like Shards, and literally not care that I spend the first 3 minutes in storm clearing coldfang and walking through the storm because 1 damage/tick doesn't matter

[restive estuary]

step into day 1 storm, instantly yeeted halfway across the map

[lost dune]

finally.
reliable void movement tech.

[restive estuary]

free anywhere but here

[woven steeple]

I think once you know you can traverse pretty quickly across the map, you can safely get away with things like this all the time. But a lot of players don’t realize this and it’s part of the learning curve to understand the storm.

The number of people I’ve seen die to the storm Day 1 is..too damn high.

[lost dune]

i'm not even traversing the map quickly and idc about day 1 storm

i just walk halfway across the map through it as void

[woven steeple]

Trust that there are players who freak out and get stuck.

[lost dune]

ill take your word on that

[woven steeple]

And dying before you get any combat reps is rough.

[static fractal]

Some of how it feels to be a waste of time comes with just how powerful pvp is in a pub context, both within game and out of game. The team that wins pvp gets levels past the soft cap, shards, gold, gear, with wipes they get power. They also get rp for their kills. Pve objs often cant compare in this regard especially with how long they take if your whole team isnt doing them together. Souls and power bosses are fine in scrims cuz people really want to contest for them. However at a higher level something thats missing is an end game obj that forces the 3 teams to fight

In late circles theres almost no incentive to start the fight

[woven steeple]

But yeah, I think there’s a deeper point to your experience, which is - it’s pretty easy to get anywhere, from anywhere else.

[static fractal]

And whoever moves first is going tolose

[static fractal]

Would really like to say teams like tld and now mb really do prioritize objs cuz they do really bring a lot of power

Just feels really underwhelming in uncoordinated

Some souls like vive soul and like omni said damage soul are notably worse

Fortnite soul, xp soul, air soul, are all game altering

Which is great

[woven steeple]

I agree. Which is why buffing rewards feels like an incomplete answer. Making them more appreciable feels closer.

[lost dune]

vive soul
vive soul used to feel amazing. it still does in extended fights but i feel like it used to heal more?
it's really good but it just kinda feels bleh now for w/e reason

[sharp olive]

Storm does different things depending in the biome :

• Snowy biome, you're slown down.

• Desert biome, way more wind.

• Electrical/mechanic biome, lighting can randomly strike the ground.

• Swamp biome, more rain, you lose glider fuel faster

• Basic biome (center of the map), nothing change

[restive estuary]

I think things like souls do their job well in games were each team knows their opponents are close to equal skill, and they need every advantage they can get to win.

[royal lark]

If you have ante like 50 you are not allowed to even go for objs, you need to only fight as much as you can

[static fractal]

Yep agree

[distant tangle]

there was talk at one point of weather effects, I think it would have been fun

not the storm but just sometimes it snows

[woven steeple]

Huh. I don’t think it’s changed, but can check.

[lost dune]

even if vive soul itself hasn't, didn't max health get increased across the board at least once sometime in the past forever?

[fierce crystal]

1 small thing about jin is that to me his no missing passive feels non existent. Idk if it's just too small to notice or if it's actually not procing.

Also, please remove bralls lmb knockback, it in the end makes brall stronger(I don't think that was it's goal) and makes him 10 times more annoying to fight. He'll be annoying to fight regardless due to healing and movement but the knockback is something I deeply despise.

[lost dune]

i might just be saying it feels worse because it heals "less" when in reality i just have more health to begin with

[woven steeple]

Folks mentioned that Fortnite and Air Soul might also be undervalued (or possibly just less worthwhile to fight over) here.

[static fractal]

I think it’s partially the incentive to pvp is so high and immediate, and also “fun”

[sharp olive]

give the vive souls a buff for vive brews, like a 2sec regen after you took one ? More usefull in fights ? idk

[lost dune]

i will 100% fight to the death over fortnite soul because playing against it is so indescribably un-fun

[static fractal]

Oh personal gripe with food in general is how long the damage exposure last after you cancel

[sharp olive]

"let me heal real quick, oh a Ghost railgun, i cancel aaand here goes half of my HP"

[restive estuary]

you see the ghost about to lasor you so you stop eating, but still get one shot feelsbadman

[static fractal]

Think fortnite soul is really really good in coordinated where your team knows how to position

That said its not the most fun to play vs

[woven steeple]

Lowering PVP rewards has also been pretty unpopular in this group..

[static fractal]

It is really funny to watch tho

[woven steeple]

But I hear you.

[woven steeple]

Right, for sure.

[static fractal]

I have some late game vods of two teams trying to break through walls together

[fierce crystal]

I feel like a lot of souls will become more valued overall as the players get better. Like once we start to actually have full gm lobbies, of only gms.

[static fractal]

Because they were stuck outside of the third teams zone

[static fractal]

Yea fair

I understand people like pvp a lot

[warped birch]

Fortnite souls worth is determined by the storm effect and location of final circle. It can either be best possible or pointless

[static fractal]

Or the jin flies around the corner and i cancel but die anyways

[static fractal]

As for air soul its heavily abyss and late game circle dependent

In right circumstances it feels op

In other circumstances its not useful at all

[lost dune]

air soul when circle is mostly abyss is just GG

air soul when circle is mostly land is ???? why bother

[static fractal]

Outside of cross country i think fortnite soul is just op

[distant tangle]

yea it only lets you glider cancel your dashes in the middle of combat without getting spiked

[static fractal]

You can literally circle around you perma

[lost dune]

cross country
not really related but w/e
maybe hot take idk but imo cross country storm should be a default feature rather than a storm shift

[static fractal]

No matter where the circle is

[distant tangle]

I think they got rid of using glider to cancel a lot of abilities and save the cooldown though so you can't do much of that anymore with glider soul

[static fractal]

I like cross country a lot

[woven steeple]

Yeah. It has made me wonder if we should pair Soul spawns with circles, but the note’s always been that you’d know where the circle ends in that world.

[static fractal]

I wouldnt be opposed

It does add late game incentive to fight

Cuz youbhave to move past each other

And the positioning decisions are really interesting

[distant tangle]

this is the sorta thing that just adds random misc knowledge checks to the game

[royal lark]

I don't how can anyone find fun playing only for pvp all game without any other goal than to kill. It's starting to look like multiplayer speedrun

[lost dune]

cross country inherently prevents the "im going to sit in this bush for 5 minutes until another team forces an enemy team to fly past me so i can spike them and get a free teamwipe" nonsense

[distant tangle]

"if theres a glider soul spawning in the lobby check vaults for e-plat"

[static fractal]

Or jsut show them the soul spawns in champ select

[woven steeple]

Yeah, it’s cursed.

[static fractal]

Sitting in bushes barely happen these days its more just getting harassed by myth until one team fucks up

Or gets sick of it

[woven steeple]

Same.

[lost dune]

i still get spiked by fuckers that AFK in bush for who-knows-how-long in mid-late game and there's no reason for them to be anywhere else because there's nothing happening on the map and it's so impressively uninteractive

but also that gets into aerial/abyss/spiking gameplay territory which i should probably avoid getting into

[static fractal]

Speaking of i feel like myth is the most oppressive mid late game hunter in the game

[woven steeple]

Alright - I do have to jet because I’m actually spending time with teammates here in Washington.

[distant tangle]

cya

[static fractal]

While also being an incredibly strong fighter in early game

Peace peace

[woven steeple]

But I’ll keep reading the notes here and summarize for the team later.

[royal lark]

I see a lot of people saying that players who rat is the bad ones, imo it really all comes from non-importance of the objects

[static fractal]

Myth rain is simply better than the kits of many controllers. Her ult is probably one of the best in the game. Pretty high damage, self peel in 2 ways(3 adding ult)

[lost dune]

alternatively cross-country storm becomes default and rat plays become impossible

[static fractal]

Shes has been one of the best hunters forever

Alongside oath

[lost dune]

i love getting out-controlled by one ability from a DPS

that's my favorite part of void

[restive estuary]

shes the ranged brall

[fierce crystal]

Pretty sure myth out-controlls all controllers

[static fractal]

Beebo despite all his buffs

[distant tangle]

thats only really because people play controllers horribly lol

and don't really know what they're meant to do

[static fractal]

Still is not as strong as her rain

[fierce crystal]

Honestly I wish beebo bomb didn't just latch onto me. If I play a hunter with a long ass cd dash and already used it I'm kinda just fucked. Since he can blow it up before i can destroy it.

Then I can't do anything to stop him from rezing his team with his bomb ad a melee hunter and it's so frustrating.

[static fractal]

Rather beebo bomb as a control tool in most circumstances

This beebo guy is busted enough

Especially if theres any abyss to rotate through

If cross country ever becomes the norm

Beebo becomes genuinely one of the best hunters

[surreal aspen]

I think that stronger objectives would do a lot to encourage PvP. If objectives are stronger, then it provides points where teams will naturally congregate for fights, making PvP a lot more organic.

It may also have the side effect of making the level caps not necessary because no matter what you're practically guaranteed to fall behind if you powerfarm, which is what the level caps currently do.

[static fractal]

Yea either late game more objs to make incentive, maybe all of the final abyssal spawn or new bosses

Make bubba check bushes too

In that instance

[static fractal]

This part is big cuz a lot of the fights rn feel like they are over nothing

When its over camps, base camps, vaults, various bosses, it feels like good pvp

In ranked it feels like i just run at teams with players i know are weaker than me and just elim them

Which is what happens in most open group tourneys too

[sharp olive]

Can we do something about getting our kills stolen when you dunk people ? Considering how strong the dash reset and heal is (and sometimes vital), it shouldn't be so easy to steal it. It's even worst when it's for a MW crown.

[fierce crystal]

They gotta fix this with huddy ult. It makes it so you can't steal souls with his ult which is so sad.

[restive estuary]

Agree. Some people think its a zero sum game between pvp and objectives, but better objectives really enhances the pvp.

[subtle rapids]

Aww I missed the talk, unfortunate

[subtle rapids]

yeah this has felt like ranked

you just run at people and throw away your life for team elims

100% echo this sentiment

[frigid trout]

Quick thoughts on this patch: Jin is once again frustrating due to mobility. Can't be caught or escaped, have had multiple multiple situations where Jin picking up a crown is pretty much guaranteed rez bc there's no way to catch up to him.

Myth Rain of Arrows does too much damage currently.

If Jin gets his mobility back can Zeph have a little bit of his bhop efficiency back? Pretty please? 🥺 Just a little bit not the whole thing 😂

And I have some thoughts on the density of objectives especially past early game but I might just DM you those as they're more in depth

[fierce crystal]

Please note this is my opinion.

This will prob not get read due to talk being over.

Some hunters genuinely are not fun to fight at all. 8 hunters, I straight up despise playing against since it just isn't fun fighting them(thats fucking half the cast). Due to those hunters feeling borderline op if not actually being completely op.

Myth has near infinite poke then it feels like I'm literally not allowed to engage on her at all or i just die, on Hudson she just destroys my wires in seconds and applies mass amount of anti heal, on Jin she completely out ranges me then well destroying my health bar. Then her ult is insanly strong and half the time I just cannot dodge it at all.

Oath I feel like is self explanatory. He has 2 health bars. Is able to easily stun me. Has the shortest dash cd rn. Then has some of the highest damage in the fucking game.

Shiv ult is just way too strong rn. Then her base empowered dmg, which I used to think was fine, is kinda just too high. 200 dmg at base then a dmg stacking passive, that's just great. Then she can srun on trees for some reason, which imo is just so dumb. Then her ult just shreds my hp in a massive aoe area.

To make this shorter ill just say the rest in short.
Brall, too many tools for every situation with the most annoying knockback in the game.

Beebo, bomb sticking to me is so annoying. The amount of dmg it does is honestly stupid. And too much utility. And close to no sound on ult.

Saros, has infinite poke, mana is literally a non issue on him, cus ofc it is. And he has no aim lazer rn.

Void stun lacks clarity. Stun feels like it stuns way too long at close range. Stun feels like it has too short of a cd. Basically just his stun is my issue.

Ghost, how much he can spam his rmb feels so stupid to play into. Then his dash is on a pretty damn short cd. His lazer has no aim lazer at times and barely yaw restricts him.

Long ass msg.

[unique cedar]

I think this is a very unique problem with SUPERVIVE showing you the entire lobby and usernames on game start

I feel like Apex would never implement smth like that and Fortnite while showing you names doesn't show you which team is which

and even then they have a streamer mode problem where nobody plays without it streamer or not

[restive estuary]

Might be worth it in ranked to have names turned off

[high pollen]

The hunter thing will always exist wether u like it or not my man. imagine if cast is 50 champs

Look at league and how many champs are hated but u ask 100 ppl and ur very likely to get very diff answers

[fierce crystal]

I really shouldn't hate playing against half the cast... yet I do. And that is kinda a problem imo.

[high pollen]

Prob cos alotta abilities are similar to eachother n dont have much identity thats added to a champ

[pine fable]

I mean it's a subjective thing. There is really only like 3 hunters i find annoying and like one and a half that I find problematic (Oath/Jin). It comes down to playstyle/hunter because hunters having counters/ways to play against is natural and just how video games work.

For example, I play a lot of Beebo right so against good players/teams that just 1 shot my bomb the moment I throw it out, I now need to be smarter about where I throw my bomb. Sure, it can be frusrating if that keeps on happening but then that is more on me for positioning then the enemy player/hunter being annoying

[fierce crystal]

It is subjective in the end. But I find so so many hunters super annoying to fight just in general. Not even just cus they counter me. And all of those hunters I'll probably find to be even more annoying in trios.

Like imo the hunters I mentioned above have quite a few problems related to them. Luke to me it feels like tc got blinded by the goal of making them able to 1vN and made them too strong.

Then if said hunters take even the smallest hit, their players cry like actual babies. Cua no one wants to admit when their hunter might just maybe be a problem. That part is honestly what I hate most about the community rn. And cus that happens tc will just refuse to nerf said hunter at all.
You can literally look at joule as an example of what I mean for this. She honestly really needed a nerf yet when she got one that ended up making it so actually doing the high burst damage she's known for is hard, the joule players basically cried about it.

[fiery tapir]

So what hunters are fun to play against then?

[fierce crystal]

Technically in a sense no hunters are "fun" to play against, I just don't get really annoyed fighting them. Like jin, has obvious points when he's vulnerable and if I fuck up he kills me as he should. Crysta is in the same boat as jin to me. Same as joule.

[hard condor]

I find kp pretty fun to fight.

Its always pretty clear what he wants to do

[fiery tapir]

So characters should have a predictable (or at least readable) ebb and flow of danger and vulnerability?

[pine fable]

Huh why do you play vive then? You quite literally interact with enemy hunters the majority of the time. so are you just never having fun in the game 😭

I enjoy playing against certain hunters because I can figure out ways to play the match up and progressively get better. Or I know where certain hunters strength are and denying them that is fun. It sounds like to me you just don't like playing against the hunters in the game which sounds like a miserable experience ;-;

[hard condor]

Also might have something to do with who you main

[pine fable]

I mean you will find that in any community, some people like playing busted/op chars in game and when they become more reasonable they get frustrated cause they have to work harder for the same thing they used to have for free.

I find Jin problematic because I think they should make his mobility either similar to what they did to zeph b hop where after doing it a couple of times it isn't as strong OR higher entry to consistenly do (make the window where he gains that mobility smaller so it rewuires more skill)

I get it he is mobile assassin, but when he is literally impossible to chase... I just find that annoying and don't think hunters should have that as an option. If they use skills or an ult to do it, I'm more at peace with it because they either smooved on my ass or used a ideally big cd to where if I do catch up they won't have it for next fight.

Oath... I won't get too much into Oath but being able to heal/res others I find silly when he isn't a protector anymore (I've always said I'd be down if they removed beebo bomb being able to rez others as well, I find that silly too), his shield being spammable alongside stopping ANYTHING from going over/through like Felix ult, Beebo Ult, Bishop ult... all of these can't go through it or even force it down which I find INSANELY strong. The bug some players abuse to be able to have infinite mobility. I feel that is a good amount of complaining for Oath but my point is I find these 1 hunters far more troublesome then all the other's in the game because I just think they are overloaded in either a specific category (Jin mobility) or just overloaded in general (Oath)

[lost dune]

Oath... I won't get too much into Oath but being able to heal/res others I find silly when he isn't a protector
kinda same tbh since being able to heal and rez has, historically, been the only differentiating factor for Protector as a classification

[pine fable]

I felt similar when I played zeph. Some hunters should counter me and I can live with that.

I do think Hudson needs a rework altogether because buff him too much he is pretty much pick and ban with very little counterplay but if you nerf him too hard he just is useless with pointless wires and a sitting duck.

[hard condor]

Pretty common sentiment these days

Im trying to make it happen

[pine fable]

Yee, it big sad and I hope Hudson gets the love he deserves 🙏

[hard condor]

Glory to hudson

[pine fable]

I've always loved his wire concept, would love to have to play around that more and then go into that fantasy

[hard condor]

I play hudsons because I love his concept and this "idea" of him as a controller

even though he currently plays like a weird fat dps

[lost dune]

even during his original pre-alpha test, he was a weird DPS

[hard condor]

They keep focusing too much on the Minigun Imo

[lost dune]

on one hand, maybe

on the other hand, Legion from Titanfall 2 does manage to control by being a minigun on legs

[hard condor]

Legion is so cool

[lost dune]

obvious game differences aside, mind you

[fiery tapir]

You've maybe already posted a rework, but what would you do to embrace his concept an idea?

[hard condor]

Hudson could very much copy legions homework

Legion kinda works because he is so threatening in a close up fight and the close range burst he got. But he also has downtime in reloads and has to manage range modes.

[lost dune]

Hudson feels like what Legion could have been if Legion didn't get to swap between ranges or have to reload

[hard condor]

More focus on his wires and ult and probably introduce a form of knockback/set up in his kit. While reducing hist flat out combat stats and range. Also giving him a "Ammo" by making rmb cost mana when not hitting

I am currently writing a large feedback post with main issues listed out, what I like/dislike, rework ideas, balance suggestions and other miscellaneous stuff

[lost dune]

an ammo mechanic would free up power to go elsewhere, since he could technically be stronger during shorter periods of time

only downside is that it could get too close to the old overheat mechanic he had

[hard condor]

Yeah. Also would prefer if hudson was way more of a close range/mid range controller. Threatening when you are where he wants you to be

[lost dune]

yeah

as-is, he's more trying to control around mid-long, thanks to his actual effective range, which a lot of the cast does already

[hard condor]

That sucked ass and its still touchy with us hudson mains. BUT It does have merit and was just executed poorly

[lost dune]

BUT It does have merit and was just executed poorly
agreed

[hard condor]

I wish I had the Bug cat nodding emote and nitro so I could use it as a reaction here

[lost dune]

idk i think a lot of the problems he's had historically are the result of trying to have an "immobile" controller but refusing to actually commit to an/the identity

[hard condor]

Taking a page out of legions book. Legion is immobile but has decent defense in the form of the shield

[lost dune]

legion can has power shot

and doesn't debuff himself by spinning his weapon up other than moving slower

[hard condor]

Bullet sneeze

Also using shield is commital

[lost dune]

yup

only titan that auto-wins vs. Legion is scorch but that requires scorch getting in legion's face which requires a lot of other things to happen

[hard condor]

Ion is also a counter but its more of a funny staring competition type of interaction

[lost dune]

but tbh titan movement is a lot slower overall

[hard condor]

Also damage is permanent and ttk is slower

[lost dune]

Hudson is, in a sense, the equivalent of playing Legion in a lobby full of Ronin and Northstar.

[hard condor]

Exactly!

[surreal aspen]

IMO Oath should be classified as a protector, mostly because the frontliner category doesn't really mean anything right now. Felix and Oath are closer to the characters on their left and right, respectively, than they are to each other, and Felix doesn't really fit as a frontliner anyways.

[hard condor]

And Oath is like a Monarch who has every chassis upgrade activate at the same time

[lost dune]

Oath has been classified as a protector basically as long as he's existed

[lost dune]

and gets the Frontier Defense upgrades in Attrition

[hard condor]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-helpmann-true-feel-that-thats-true-morgan-freeman-true-gif-15273165990450333551

But yeah actually productive Hudson talk. I thank you greatly.

And Oath caught a few strays. Good day

[fierce crystal]

Oh wow I complain about something in thw game then suddenly I hate the game. What a surprise. Now I hate the game, which is definitely the reason why I still speak here at all.

It's just dumb how you're msg is phrased. And by that I mean, really really dumb.

[eager matrix]

Hey man I get it these convos can get frustrating but let's try to be nice.

This message goes out to everyone really. Can we all just be nice about how we talk to other people?

[fierce crystal]

I'm literally trying. If I wasnt that msg would've been a lot meaner.

[hard condor]

[fierce crystal]

And please understand that I literally said, "this is my opinion". For a reason. Stating that it's simply what I think.

[hard condor]

Doesnt really give a good picture of you if you say "I could have been meaner".

[pine fable]

I was being genuine ;-;. I was saying OP sounds like they don't enjoy the game if they are always fighting against people they find annoying. It was out of genuine curiosity if they find majority of the match ups annoying, where do they find enjoyment in the game then. It was meant literally.

I'll just step away from it, there was no harm/malice in my messages. I will say though, if you state an opinion, I'd be open to that opinion maybe being heard with other opinions. This is under "discussion" posts after all.

[hard condor]

Miss understanding and over reactions happen. Its fine. By text its hard to get feelings/implications across

[pine fable]

I will say at the end of my message I said it seemed like a miserable experience with a sad face... I thought that would make it pretty clear. Tone can be lost over text but I thought it was pretty obvious

[hard condor]

The sad face is used to much some people read it as satire.

[pine fable]

Hmm I guess but idk. Reading the whole message there was nothing that made it seemed like I was poking fun at the individual or anything like that. I was making an observation that if they find a overwhelming majority of match ups annoying, or to quote them "no hunters are "fun" to play against..." that seems like a pretty miserable time so I was hoping to hear a response about how they do enjoy the game but I guess somehow just assuming it was a message out of malice makes more sense then taking it at face value. Lil miffed about it but all good, I'll just walk away from it or if someone wants to take it to dms cause I don't want to clutter this chat with that so be it.

[fierce crystal]

Hm, I'm sorry if I came off a little hostile.

Cus the msg really just seemed mega aggressive for no real reason when I was just stating how I felt about a lot of the cast currently. And I honestly only read the msg I replied to due to how it sounded to the point where what was going through my mind was "why read the other msgs when this one alone sounds toxic".

[fierce crystal]

To be precise, your original msg came off with quite a bit of hostility at face value.

[hard condor]

But we are all friends now

(you better be)

[fierce crystal]

Idk them well

[pine fable]

I don't hold grudges very easily, you are all good. I really am just dropping that convo though. I thought up to that point we had really good discussion and just find it sad/silly it turned into what it did for no reason. I never mentioned you hating the game or anything like that, just that how do you enjoy it then out of curiosity cause like I love League but I don't enjoy it anymore which is why I stopped(amongst other reasons) playing it so I was wondering where your enjoyment of game came from.

[pine fable]

Is there going to be a new megathrad today?

[fierce crystal]

I kinda hope. This one is tainted(my apologies)

Tbh I kinda just wanna complain about brall and jin in a place that isn't just gonna be like "how dare you complain about the hunter I play". And in a place that'll actually be seen by a dev more than likely.

[frigid trout]

Is there a reason? Bc they already confirmed that Brall and Jin are being nerfed.

I'm not sure complaining more is necessary, they're literally already acting on it

[fiery tapir]

Side note: we ever get a VA name for Eva?

[pine fable]

sarah elmaleh for EN

Idk for other's

[fiery tapir]

oh shit, of pyre and hi-fi rush

[fierce crystal]

There isn't really a reason, no. I'm just very frustrated rn and just wanna let out said frustration.

Cus playing versus them is just really annoying rn.

[frigid trout]

That's definitely not what the weekly discussion thread is for lol. Like if there are issues to bring up great. If you're just "I AM UNHAPPY EVEN THO UR FIXING IT RIGHT NOW " like... just choose to not do that.

[fierce crystal]

It'd more be like, "there mobility is dumb and the fact brall stat checks Hudson is insane". That'd kinda just be all I'd say.

[eager matrix]

Brall do kinda feel like a stat-stick hunter to play against ngl

Would be nice if when I hit all of my peel on him it actually mattered and I could kite him (Saros, Ghost, Celeste player)

[woven steeple]

Time for a new thread today. 🙂

[eager matrix]

BET

[hard condor]

Yipee

[woven steeple]

We have a longer playtest on Fridays, so I'll take a little longer today to get it started.

[fierce crystal]

He's not a stat check and is a stat check at the same time. It's insane

[fierce crystal]

We wait

[hard condor]

Technically nearly everyone is stat check. Brall feels stat check because he has so many WAYS to get on you and check your stats.

Its kinda about how they are applied. KP is the strongest stat check in vive history. If he GETS to check you

its about how they do it

If he gets to check you he just pops you with Slam Ult

Feels fairly fair because he has tools to try and get his check off while others (mostly) have tools to try and prevent it

Brall I feel just always has the tools to get his check off

Meanwhile Hudson gets his check off if allowed since he has little tools. SO he is forced to be so stat heavy he WINS if he gets it off. It just doesnt feel intuitive

I think Im making some sense

[sharp olive]

so we chat here or wait for a new post ?

[hard condor]

I think we wait

Im just rambling about game design sorry.

[fierce crystal]

Tbh I think the main problem with brall is his stats.

Like for example, Hudson has high stats due to little tools. Yet brall has high stats and all the tools he'd ever need. But then if they lower his stats too much he can't do much. Bralls kit is honestly designed in a way that is just as problematic as hudson's, just for different reasons.

[hard condor]

Two sides of the same stat check coin

And felix kinda there too but felix is limited by his range and is forced to go in to kill.

[fierce crystal]

Felix is fine due to the fact that if kited he loses, if not noted he wins. He's so simple and has what he needs to do what he does. Felix is honestly the perfect stat check. Then brall and Hudson just have to be put in a spot where their stats checkiness is fine.

[sharp olive]

Hey ! I'm exhausted and got a Headache today @woven steeple so sadly i'm won't take the time to chat even if wouldve love to.

Except my post below, i never had a direct answer from TC for this question : Can we hope for an map editor (even just some ppl) for the arena community to be self sufficient in terms of content and let TC be able to fully work on the BR without letting us arena players behind ?

My overall feedback and request i could send here are in this post. https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1357454452365201438 Sry in advance if i'm being a lil bit salty in this post, i mean no harm as always. thanks

PS : I'm gonna send you next week a full detailed and polished Protector Hunter design if it can give ideas.

[pine fable]

IM LATE AHHH

Take your time and thank you for everything! I may be able be there for it