A game worthy of 10,000 hours...

[arctic schooner]

1996

1997

1998

1999

[pine solstice]

lmao

[halcyon wagon]

Holy shit that made me so mad Wen it happened lol "i am full hp i can take 1 shot if i fail to dodge" shrike => sike i can 100->0 now

[keen creek]

[vague rock]

New name for this discussion, a discussion worthy of 10,000 messages. Let's make it happen lmao

[clever raft]

Lol

[keen creek]

[livid hinge]

real

[keen creek]

So, starting the topic on UI

There's like two main things; Map UI and HUD
For hud I think it was a lot better this patch than last patch, but being able to have your abilities in the middle should be an option. In general customization of HUD/UI would be incredibly nice, as this is somewhat preference at the end of the day.

The 'over-your-character' UI got changed for some reason; I think it was by far the best UI in the entire game, with all the information easy to see.. EXCEPT that how much HP a person has, if it's 800 or 500, is impossible to see. (This is still an issue)
Now it's a little less clear, and someone's level especially is harder to see. (and i really want to be able to see that quickly)

Map: I think my biggest issue is that it doesn't follow you, and that it's incredibly gray and dull still. It just feels so wrong to load into a game of supervive, with the now extremely cool and vibrant loading screen.. and then the map opening as drop phase begins - gray and dull. That just feels the opposite of the entire concept of the game...

[fickle knoll]

You guys still talking. I managed to sleep in this time. Respect for that

[livid hinge]

I feel like I like the new HUD besides the fact that I think the abilities should be the middle of the screen. I wasn't around (actively) for the HUD you mentioned, any chance you have an example? I'm curious what you mean

Also I completely agree on the map issues. The map should follow you, at least as an option, and the map screen is just too dull and bland.

I also feel the map is a bit unreadable when zoomed out, due to a lot of the iconography looking funny.

[clever raft]

@keen creek, what time is it for you lol

[fiery flower]

I know you didn’t ask me, but it’s 3 AM

[keen creek]

9 am

[fiery flower]

And doing some math I’m pretty sure he’s like six hours ahead of me

[keen creek]

It's a new day c:

[clever raft]

Omg Goaked

Lol

[fiery flower]

Like I’m a college student now that hasn’t started college so I’m Vibing for three more days

[clever raft]

This makes so much sense now, thank you hahah

[keen creek]

Just this

vs this (finding image)

[livid hinge]

same

[clever raft]

Enjoy - I love this

[livid hinge]

3am is prime supervive discussion hours

[fiery flower]

Going for video game design one day I will be your coworker and still have the sleep schedule anyways good night

[livid hinge]

Oooo I see

[keen creek]

The level especially is really hard to see quickly

In this new version

[livid hinge]

yeah I do agree, I liked the older one a bit more

mostly the level is hard to recognize now

[keen creek]

Levels/items are split as well, so you have to look opposite sides of the ho bar

[livid hinge]

ye

[clever raft]

Mm, Powers were always on the right. You mean specifically Equipment levels, yeah?

[keen creek]

I really do think the biggest issue is just the healthbar not being very clear on how much health that actually is

[keen creek]

Yea, the lil equipment level colours

you know what % roughly but if you don't know how much health that actually is

It can be kind of hard to judge the damage you have to deal

[steady wave]

oh jeez safelocked you're still up?

[keen creek]

A 50% health fulltank may have more health than a 100% health bunny

[clever raft]

The secret is that typically we’re all up working on the game heh

[livid hinge]

I like how League handles their health bars, small pip for 100 HP, big pip for 1000

[steady wave]

i think how much hp 1 bar segment gives has always been mentally confusing for a lot of players

(i blame league of legends)

[livid hinge]

In Supervive or League?

[steady wave]

supervive

[livid hinge]

Me too, I'd be interested to see a similar consistent segment system brought over

if it's not there already, I can't tell

[tender holly]

I can attest. I look at someones health bar and think "big health chonker" or "little health chonker"

[livid hinge]

That's so real

[tender holly]

I see oath and i KNOW hes a big health chonker, but how much is that health? not very clear imo

[livid hinge]

If it is there already in Supervive, I feel it's not very clear/defined

[clever raft]

For the screenshot you posted, was it mainly the outlines of the ticks not being as clear? Or other elements?

[proper stag]

Wait but isn't it like 1 AM for you over there safelock?

And you guys still at it ?

[clever raft]

Hehe

[livid hinge]

TC mandated bedtime arc soon

[steady wave]

4am joshua morrison idle->online jumpscare

[clever raft]

JMo needs more sleep than me

That man works hard

(Don’t tell him I said that)

[livid hinge]

I respect the hustle but I hope it's not a personal crunch situation, you guys need good sleep too

[steady wave]

i think everything on nameplates is so hard to see w/ the current game, too

[ocean leaf]

Jusy woke up... hot dayum y'all still goin strong

[steady wave]

as of last month i started using nvidia settings to adjust colors

[lavish dove]

This health bar is better for some reasons, its easier to read in general, it feels like it has a simplistic charm that feels good for a pc game. and its not bloated.

The new one is bad because it spends so much time on trying to be athsteticly pleasing rather then being as functional as possible. its on a huge slant compared to the older ones slightly slant. the mana and armor bars are SO THIN. Its bloated (powers take up so much space and offset the hp bar. Souls also do the same thing but on the left) the old little effects you would get when getting a biome soul is gone entirely! It just feels like the game is losing charm in favor of simplistic design that is focused on being athestetic. personally i am way more likely to play a game if it looks fun, this new hp bad makes the game feel unpolished in a bad way. the old one felt simplistic in a good way, readable and still found a way to have charm

[clever raft]

I’m in bed, but this chat still poppin!

Lol

[ocean leaf]

[steady wave]

yeah i truthfully detest the slanted everything bar paradigm. the older one was just more effective

i couldn't stand it in omega strikers either

[livid hinge]

I respect that (no nitro but imagine :TCBug: here)

[livid hinge]

I kind of agree that perhaps it's too heavily stylized

[lavish dove]

I enjoy talking about supervive and winding down for the night. Taking some time to relax

[steady wave]

a really common occurrence in this game is that you actually have to look at hp bars to identify characters as things happen on the map and are getting chaotic

[lavish dove]

this playtest just felt really really bloated imo

[steady wave]

when nameplates look like how they did last test they lose so much gameplay visibility and in turn are no longer really functioning as an effective tool

[clever raft]

Can you tell more about this? Mainly because there’s been some discussion earlier primarily around what’s been cut.

[ocean leaf]

Before I head to work, wanted to say one quick thing about the hud before I head off. I personally loved this last hud, thought it was perfect, and wouldn't need any changes, but I see that there are a lot of people that do, specifically with the skill placement. I think that the Hud will always be a point of contention as long as it is restricted, I think the option to move the abilities somewhere, or choose their location is going to be a must have to make everyone (or most sane people who dont want deranged HUDS) happy with what they have

[steady wave]

I feel like most of the HUD changes trend towards this though. I think it's all strictly less effective for actually playing the game. it's really surprising to me, too - you have literal fortnite professionals (who are very used to the style present in the new UI paradigm) that absolutely cannot stand it

[livid hinge]

I'd be down for moving skills elsewhere as an option

[lavish dove]

this will be a long reply, gimme some time to cook

[clever raft]

Have a good one!

[clever raft]

For sure. No rush.

[keen creek]

they dont represent the actual health clearly

How much is a tick?

I don't know.

And I shouldnt have to do math

[livid hinge]

I also feel the "slant" in the health bar feels confusing mixed with the ticks as well

I like the slant but I feel it's too exaggerated

[tender holly]

For me the lines aren’t easy to read and feel too thin. It all kind of blurs together into a colorful mess

[livid hinge]

Yeah absolutely that too

[clever raft]

Hmm, yeah - I was going to say; both old and new versions are slanted. Helpful to hear that maybe it’s too slanted?

[livid hinge]

Yeah perhaps too much, I think it looks more visually appealing for sure, but perhaps to a fault. Maybe there's a happy middle ground?

[clever raft]

Did you feel this way with the old health bar too?

[lavish dove]

I am not on my computer otherwise i would share screen shots but here goes, there are 3 hp bars on my screen and realisticly ill only use 1 ever. the bottom left one is the biggest and was only helpful to see what my max hp number was in practice tool, otherwise it was just a annoyance. details like your LMB next to your portrait is a very nice touch and actually kinda cute. but its in like the most useless place i am not looking while firing so it just serves to take up space for 0 reason. the xp bar is MASSIVE for 0 reason, it could just be a little circle or a thin bar at the bottom, the ability icons are so small and again in the corner of my screen, it legit strains my eyes a little bit to look allll the way bottom left. ergonomically looking straight down is easier on the eyes. I wouldnt mind it being in the bottom left if the icons wernt so small? is there a way to increase there size? The passive buffs on the left are a good step in the right direction but they are currently bigger then they need to be, just make them little boxes like how almost any other moba does it. its sleek, clean, and easy to check. maybe make it so hovering over it shows a bar if its really wanted to be in there imo. I am going to send this as these are my main comments on the UI but i have more on why this playtest felt bloated. ill send in a separate message. oh also the map felt worse, but im sure the fact that you had to zoom in to see icons was a bug so ima let you guys cook. I actually like the dark map, i just think it should be a toggelable setting.

[fickle knoll]

The hp bar itself is slightly smaller then the old one so that might have something to do with it. Imo the hp bar is the most valuable info in this game so it kinda has to be readable as possible at a glance

[keen creek]

Yes

Not a new issue

Just a general health bar issue

[clever raft]

Right - I think that’s always helpful to note too.

[ocean leaf]

(at gas station not driving) but biggest issue with the game right now is that Riff isn't in it

[clever raft]

Who is

Riff. LOL

[ocean leaf]

He was my custom hunter from the presentation lol

[clever raft]

Oh shit

[ocean leaf]

art credit Cherry

[livid hinge]

I think we just turn Major into a Supervive character, lock em up

[clever raft]

Hahahah

[steady wave]

yeah it's also rough bc the correct way to use the HUD rn is a bit scuffed LOL

[tender holly]

I’ll hide the key

[clever raft]

Major is the platonic ideal of a Hunter

[ocean leaf]

Will send you the video of his kit when I get to work

[ocean leaf]

Nooo dont turn my into a marketable plushie supervive hunter

[steady wave]

i have never felt so strongly about like...needing my monitor far far back

[lavish dove]

Next the new drop changes are cool in theory bad in execution. its small things, like stationary drop ships should not be able to go through the edge of the map, there where times where like everyone had to drop at the bottom left of the map. the cone should always shoot through the middle of the map, the one with 4 different dropships should be closer to the center because rn it feels like you have to drop at the edge. In general it felt like it was added to introduce more variance but like, last patch drops where actually perfect. entirely IMO these new changes just feel unnecessary and most importantly Not as a fun as the normal dropship experience. however i note there are likely people who disagree. i have one more part

[livid hinge]

I wanna comment on the new drops: I felt like strategy was removed from a lot of them as well. The shrinking path one was kinda cool but the stationary drop and the full map drop felt like a "well now what" situation. I feel timing is important with drops

[steady wave]

we talked about it briefly post test - drops seemed net ok bc they felt like they actually hit the goalposts of what they were meant to do, which isn't something that happens often

but it's really hard to tell if it's good or not yet - not enough time playing it (for us at least)

[livid hinge]

I don't mind new kinds of drops, I just think a couple of the angles were a miss. I'm a fan of moving drops, the stationary ones feel pretty rough.

[clever raft]

Gotcha - bloated as in - you’ve felt for a while that the HUD character resources are redundant with what’s shown on the character itself. It’s been updated over time, but that overall feeling.

[lavish dove]

Last part, the sonar change is likely getting cut. not much to comment there, unneeded mechanic that wasn’t fun at all and devalued UAVs which is a good objective. Finally map icons. I see you guys are cooking. but some of these icons are harder to see and felt worse. i couldn’t find uavs on the map to save my life the new icon felt bad. the new announcer didnt feel good, unsure why it got changed it just made the experience feel like its trying to push a athetetic it doesnt match. same with the basecamps, old ones where charming, the new ones feel out of place and soulless. My biggest issue with this playtest is that it felt like most of the changes where redundant which is fine, but there are so many issues in the game that are being neglected in order to focus on other side ideas so close to beta.

[steady wave]

i think visually the game has been losing more charm every test. the bonfires were a really significant example of it

[lavish dove]

In this last playtest there was just a lot of redundancy and elements where too big or too small with little thought, i have heard from multiple people that the game was so much harder to read.

[steady wave]

i also think it's ok for things to be...a little simple? or not like cool or trendy or w/e ; like in deadlock you fight over a literal pot

[sand meadow]

yeah, a lot of the new visual changes(ui/vfx) feel like its a lot more of "trying to be cool and sleek" instead of "actually doing their job in a clear concise way"

[steady wave]

yeah, it's really losing identity. the game feels like it's standing out less and less in attempts to stand out more

• trading out efficacy for intended purposes

[clever raft]

Mm - the game’s presented the same resources in the HUD. There were times where we showed even more and cut back - so mainly wanted to know why the HUD this playtest in particular felt more redundant. Sounds like some of the sizing might be impacting the read?

[lavish dove]

I went 3 levels without upgrading this playtest, its normally a issue for me but not for 3 levels!!! also the new item system was just bad. it doesnt feel like it meets the goals of versatility, i am even more encouraged to build the same thing every game, why even try to go dps kp for a game if i will always select hybrid or tank. theres no opportunity to experiment without inting.

[keen creek]

I want to add that the new "effects happening to you" is perfect imo

[lavish dove]

Ill point out the biggest offenders, if anyone has a sceenshot that will be helpful otherwise its chill

[keen creek]

Good size looks nice, displays duration nicely.

[latent sluice]

good morning guys. no way this is still ongoing. i respect it

[keen creek]

Safelocked is a 🐐

that sounds really bad if you don't know internet slang xD

[clever raft]

Lol, you’re good

[livid hinge]

I feel like the lack of encouragement to build new things is mostly because of how the items are balanced in general. So many items are just flat out objectively better than the alternatives, like they're being overshadowed.

Bloodscent was a big highlight item for me on what a cool item could be, but I never felt I should build it because Rampage existed, and I don't need to chase anyone if they're just dead.

The "passive that gives stat" items I feel just cast a big shadow over items that feel cool in their gameplay opportunities and mechanics

[clever raft]

I will always take examples! If you need a screenshot, I can grab one later today too.

[lavish dove]

1. the item ammo gauge is at the bottom left and in general is pretty useless. especially when its down at like the last place my eyes will be during a fight.

2. you can see your own hp bar at 3 different places, the bottom left one and the left side team ones are useless and just add more visual clutter. which is a very bad thing. the game becomes harder to read which is very very bad imo. btw dont cut the team healthbars just dont show your own portrait only your other 3 teammates

3. as you said sizing, things are not sized in accordance to how important they are. instead athestetics are favoured which feels bad.

Also to be clear. i am not trying to be a hater, i love this game and i know you guys are trying your best im just trying to honest so my feedback isnt held back.

[lavish dove]

here wait lemme try something brb

[clever raft]

Aw, I got such positive feedback on the ammo gauge from someone else hahah

For 2 - I would have been down to cut your own bar on the left. We’ve tried that before - I think I remember people in this group not liking it 😰

Iirc - it was about being able to evaluate your team’s overall state. But yeah, I understand what you mean.

[livid hinge]

I'm of the opinion your health bar shouldn't be there as well, fwiw

[sand meadow]

from vapero stream. tried to find one without a camera

if this is what u were looking for

[keen creek]

I think specifically for myth its really informative for new players

It displays what her timings are

It visually looks nice but its pretty much impossible using in a fight

[lavish dove]

I appreciate this. i can mark up this too if wanted

not my sceenshot but here it is sorry its marked so poorly i was using my phone and a finger

probably poorly communicated in this lmao

[steady wave]

i think most of the UI is not useful in a fight anymore

[clever raft]

An OG Ghost player was sharing they liked it with me - but I can see this too

[steady wave]

it* is so hard to make sense of anything in the moment atm

and the longer i spend with it the more i am aware of the limitations and how painfully more difficult it is to play with

[lavish dove]

I think it is really really cute and a very athestetic touch, its just a tad big. i understand that its hard to please everyone. its just not functionally very helpful imo

[sand meadow]

i have a question safelocked, is there a particular reason mana costs were hidden from the ui? or was it just an oopsie

[lavish dove]

Interesting… i mean it being on the left i didnt have a issue with until the bottom left one was introduced, so its probably fine. there just doesnt need to be 3 on my screen.

[steady wave]

it takes longer to physically look at things around the HUD, it takes longer to process, there is less useful information readily available, and there is a lot more that's just distracting or minimally relevant to gameplay (while taking up a lot of valuable space)

[clever raft]

The scale’s out of wack and not representative definitely for anyone who still has 3D rendered portraits. These are way bigger than intended lol - the new portraits you’re starting to see will be more reflective

[steady wave]

i think fights resolve even worse vertically than before, too. you usually don't really fight someone DIRECTLY south or north - and fading the UI was totally fine in those scenarios (south for HUD). in the current game, fighting south just feels like a liability entirely now. before it was that specific central segment (Which was resolved when HUD faded out, to reiterate)

ok gn thank you for your time safelocked

[lavish dove]

The ui is really cute as a viewer, like looking at screnshots i find myself doubting my takes but. when playing it felt so cluttered and generic. the new character art is cute just really big, the ammo gauge is cute just big, powers are on the left now which is a W

[livid hinge]

also @keen creek I did the math with a screenshot of my own, it looks to be 300HP per tick on your HP bar?

300 feels a bit.. arbitrary though

[steady wave]

250 iirc

[lavish dove]

I hope this isnt taken in a way that invalidates my takes. I am 100% sure my issues with the ui where not just growing pains. it was cluttered and def felt bad. the new hp bar however is just completely cooked, i honestly hope it just gets reverted.

[clever raft]

Haha, all good. It’s why we talk through each piece. Which parts feel generic to you?

[livid hinge]

Here's the screenshot I used, if it helps show where I'm getting that

I have nearly exactly 6 ticks at 1841HP

[keen creek]

Yea i think it's like 303/333 ish

It's just like, when am I doing that math mid fight

[livid hinge]

I agree

I was mostly just doing it because I was curious myself

[tender holly]

Happens to be a pic featuring wisp miragent 💀

[livid hinge]

owned

[keen creek]

Speaking of health, toughness as a stat is somewhat confusing and not really explained

[lavish dove]

maybe generic is the wrong word… the ui more feels like its doing too much. the hp bar is the biggest issue. i think it makes the whole ui like wayyy worse, the hp bar at the bottom left prob should be cut imo, the xp bar at the bottom left already bushes up the massive character art which takes up more of the screen, I LOVE where the passive is placed btw dont change that please, ammo gauge is fine just big, icons are so small its like they are trying to hide. basecamps are a massive step in the wrong direction.

[livid hinge]

I actually didn't even notice until you said that LMAO

[clever raft]

Also, no worries. I understand the scale issues, and if your issues with the health bar overlaps with what Fate talked about, I have the context I need there too now.

[ocean leaf]

To harp on the ammo thing, I think it looks great, certain characters get more impact out of it, but right now, there isn't a character that REALLY uses it, I could see there being someone in the future.

[lavish dove]

I feel like im talking in circles a bit, my bad i feel like im trying to summarize over and over. its probably devaluing the conversation a bit.

[clever raft]

Do people here generally find the health bar in your HUD frustrating? It’s been there for a while - curious if others have felt this way for a while.

[sand meadow]

im just gunna put this here for the ui discussion.

this was july 2023.

what do u feel about the ui @lavish dove

i like the bot 1/2, item icons were too big (we didnt have ui scaling yet)

minimap is in a little bit of a bad spot (cant see top left of ur map, circular map lets u see a peek of it, soul icons are too big)

i feel like when i see this one vs the old one despite things being awkwardly sized i see more stuff.

just curious what ppl think about a pretty old version of the ui

[clever raft]

No, you’re good!

[sand meadow]

the bot left health bar isnt useful if it doesnt show the exact hp number in a really easy way to see i think. i can see my health bar where my cursor is centered on my char as im looking there 99% of the time.

the usefulness of ui healthbar is extra bits of info in downtime if im trying to minmax stuff.

[keen creek]

The main thing I like on this is the ultimate being in the middle and bigger than everything else

[lavish dove]

I see a lot of people who played a lot longer then me praise this one. i personally feel a bit bad on it. i dont like where gold is placed, though maybe its the old art thats throwing me off as a bit of a newbie? i agree general placement IS better but we need a kind of amalgam of this and current

[tender holly]

I wouldn’t say I find it frustrating, but it seems unnecessary/repetitive.

[steady wave]

i came back to say this ui was one of the best of all time (with some glaring elements that were not great)

[lavish dove]

honestly in a ideal world FFXIV ui customization would be like, top tier. make it so the current ui is default and then let us customize. it would fit in the sandbox nature of the game too! idk how hard it would be to implement but IMO it would mean a lot to me. i love it when games let me make my version of the game feel like its MY version of the game.

[sand meadow]

yea gold is rly bad for sure, i forgot to even look for it.

i like how this ui was really compact, it tells me exact numbers in places if i need to see them, and while slightly inconvenient some placements let u end up seeing way more.

it has some really bad placements but some really good ones and general sizing i think is perfect for how much space something should take (except top left, thats a complete mess)

[tender holly]

What I like about this hud is that instead of another bar of health it just give numbers. It’s also smaller and simple. It gives info without taking up a chunk of the screen.

[clever raft]

Gotcha. Is it important to you, that like zzkknn mentioned, to know the exact health number on the bottom left?

[lavish dove]

tmr if i remember i would love to draft up my ideal ui in paint

[cyan trout]

WOW THERE'S A LOT TO UNPACK HERE, THE READ WAS LONG

[clever raft]

Lol

We just jamming

[steady wave]

i think it is extremely important to see the number, right; where else are we getting this info? if we're looking down at this part of our screen, do we expect granularity?

[ocean leaf]

To harp on this more specifically, I think that it is a REALLY nice bit of visual "oh that's cool" that feels really nice in the game, but none of the cast really utilizes it. In the future I could absolutely see it being important to certain characters that are "Ammo Dependant" like if there was a Jhin style character where specific shot's mattered or had different effects, or the character had limited ammo.

[lavish dove]

YOU WENT FROM TOO TO BOTTOM?! IM SO SORRY

[livid hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/the-return-of-the-king-lord-of-the-rings-ro-tk-title-card-gif-22191928

[cyan trout]

I skimmed after some bit, because it was repetitive, but it's talking about UI so I'm here

[ocean leaf]

I think the positioning is ok, but the stuff in the bottom left feels so empty

[cyan trout]

Anic summoned me, and I have my two cents on it

[livid hinge]

😎

[lavish dove]

oh yeah we talked a bit in circles at time, but i think it comes from passion for the game

[tender holly]

I would rather have the exact number and comparison like 20/1500 instead of the same bar in the UI. If I want quick info I look at the UI above my character for a general idea of my health/mana, but if I want more specific numbers I will look down like in league.

[steady wave]

i think generally speaking, the main reason you look down at the lower UI elements is for the kind of clarity that numbers give

cooldowns, mana numbers, etc.

and when it fails this function or actively makes it harder for me to do so, then i'm like...why is this even here

[lavish dove]

Not to point back to this but i would love peoples thoughts on this, do you guys think this would be meaningful to you guys? or would it feel like a waste of time to implement

[steady wave]

like the ammo/gun indicators are cool, but they have no purpose in reality

you'll never be reading that in the moment as you play assault or freeze, or charging as myth, for example

[clever raft]

The specific piece of feedback I got was that the Ghost main found that it was nice to manage their LMB and check the gauge. But I’m with you that it’s lightweight in roster usage right now. I think if we believe it has long-term value and it’s positive for certain Hunters, establishing the UI footprint now is probably good vs. later

[lavish dove]

i mean yes i didnt look down because i could just feel when the long shots would come out, but having a indicator for those 3 long shots on freeze was a VERY nice touch

[tender holly]

I think it looked pretty and was a neat feature, and I wouldn’t be mad if it stayed. I just think it was a little chonky

[clever raft]

I think that’s also why it’s helpful to speak from your personal POV - guessing others’ POV is going to be lossy

[ocean leaf]

I agree, and making it universal like it is wont cause "readability confusion" like certain league characters that have unique systems like that

[clever raft]

Yep, for sure

That happened…a lot

[steady wave]

for me, it's like...if you play this character more than once, and learn the timings/sounds, it's fine; if the game also isn't providing these adequately through vfx/sfx then i think that's a shortcoming. it shouldn't be made up for by making the UI worse.

[sand meadow]

as a diff vet assault player, having ammo at the bot left is really not useful and ima be honest if ur looking bot left to check ur ammo guage ur looking away from important things in combat.

the little ammo thing near the radial worked great if i really needed it, and theres also pretty distinct vfx for u running out of ammo. also ur damage is just way less so it was easy for me to know when i'm out of ammo.

you get used to the muscle memory of it also, holding fire for 0.3 s -> letting go -> ammo full -> full ammo to proc daze at max power

[ocean leaf]

Lol

[clever raft]

Hehe

[steady wave]

yeah my question is like -- if you play ghost and you're not looking at the target you're shooting what exactly are you doing LOL

and if you're a ghost main and you don't know the ammo system then again, what exactly are you doing

[ocean leaf]

I do think that the new bars for empowered shots like Elluna, or KP, or Assault aren't really there for veterans, or anything, they are there for visual clarity, fidelity, to look nice, and for newer players it can help them internalize the timing on the passives better then they would if it werent there.

[steady wave]

it's a cool HUD element that comes up when

• players are brand new
• players aren't actually doing things that require the usage of the indicator
• players are doing things wrong
• the game isn't providing enough scaffolding elsewhere (sound, vfx)

[ocean leaf]

That is correct, but as safelocked said, it was something that someone allready harped on liking, so I do think it is allready proven to be a good thing, at least for some poeple

[keen creek]

Specifically a thing is also just how it's formatted; With the old old format it was very simple to see which key was where based on positioning. Ultimate being bigger also just helped showing it was a special key

[lavish dove]

this feels a bit elitist, its nice for learning and helpful to some.

[keen creek]

This is my recreation of a old drawing that showed it very well

i couldn't find it

[fickle knoll]

Id say having the ammo sit on your cursor would also be nice. You are looking at your cursor a lot so mink ui elements there would help with judging ammo counts and weapon charge

[steady wave]

i don't think so - if a player spends countless hours on a character and "mains" a character, i think i would have that expectation of knowledge

but I think that learning is easy to do without the UI indicator at all times, right?

[sand meadow]

it is on your cursor, or atleast it was when i played him in august. (this is a bug ignore what happens in the clip)

look at the circle that goes down

[lavish dove]

But like, what about the people who dont want to spend countless hours on him? what about casual players. its important to keep those people in mind IMO

[steady wave]

i think a 10000 hour game may be a poor fit

[lavish dove]

Hold on, this is awesome.

[steady wave]

and i think it can be made up for with better sound design or visual cues

[clever raft]

Sometimes, it’s people who have spent countless hours on him too - I think that’s my main callout

[sand meadow]

imo designing your ui to help new players by moving their eyes away from important things (what they are looking at) to look at the bottom left to tell them a basic mechanic about their character is not really ideal.

the radial around the mouse might be bad, maybe there is other vfx that could exists to help them.

[cyan trout]

Okay so on current UI, from looking at it and having experienced several ones before (can't play i have carpal lol)

• The implementation of everything globally is WAY better. Having every info needed on the portrait is great, but...
• The weapon is useless and visual clutter imo, would just be needed and cool looking if there was ammo, but not currently, takes space on the screen for no reason (sorry to be blunt 🙏 )
• Ye still not a fan of the spells being on the side of the screen, as it steers your eyes away from center and obscures what happens from right hand screen and at worst all the top right screen, on a top down game where threat can come at every angle
• Visually it's cute looking and readable color wise, but still not a fan of mana (both visually and in gameplay haha) and how HP increments work. Imo it's just "so hard" to read in a pinch that it's a bother to actually check for said info when it should be precise. Refer to #1281611021546688512 message for my mana take, and to OW for how HP increments are goated and easy to read 👍 (only goes from 25 increments, can't have 491 max hp for instance, makes for even increments)
• HP bars are the best they've ever been (minus mana)
• GOOD CALL ON REMOVING MOST STATS DISPLAY 🎉 . I never gave feedback on that in due time but it's great. I'd compact everything in the bottom right and tuning the size of important things (might do a mockup if interested), but all in all it's getting better and better in that front

For the rest UI wise... Need to think through things a bit more, but really needed to give my takes after Anic sent me a screenshot, sorry for big wall

[ocean leaf]

But does it negatively detract from your experience?

[steady wave]

yeah i think the issue is that it's still a bad answer even in the cases it helps

ultimately it feels like the wrong solution to the problem

[ocean leaf]

The fact that there are people who find it nice, and appreciate it, means that I do not think it should go, if there are people that find it useful, then good, it's working correctly

[steady wave]

just let me turn it off

[lavish dove]

I think we wont agree on this topic. I respect your position and understand it but I think this game will live and die on the casual playerbase, the ammo counter is inherently not adding too much clutter and its not very harmful and useful to casual players. however i do see where you are coming from.

[steady wave]

i play firefox i do not need to know when my flamethrower is flaming i promise

[clever raft]

No need to apologize - this is a great breakdown, too.

[steady wave]

yeah probably - i think the neccessity for an indicator for this is more of a symptom of different design problems, still

[ocean leaf]

I think this is the most important part, not that it's bad, or doesn't provide anything, or is clutter, but that you want the ability to turn it off.

[clever raft]

When you mention HP bars are the best they’ve ever been - which ones are you referring to? We talked a lot about each one, so I’m curious!

[steady wave]

oh no if i were a new player i woudln't want it either

it feels insulting (at a personal level)

[ocean leaf]

But, again, there are people that like it

[lavish dove]

I actually appreciate your take. i find a lot of the time im trapped in echo chambers, its refreshing to hear someone liking the new hp bar! now i can blame you when it stays/j /j /j

[cyan trout]

Meant the hud on top of playable characters. It's sleek, very compact (takes the least screen space), easily readable and gives personality to the game instead of giving "League at home vibes"

[steady wave]

i think we definitely have different preferences - but i don't think "some people like it" is really validity. some people like (insert anything). it's somewhat of a nonstatement

[keen creek]

Also this is unrelated but THIS feedback
https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1285189824092831784

is really important

Social systems are really bad atm

[lavish dove]

mind if If i ask, how do you feel about how souls are displayed now?

[cyan trout]

Show me

(I didn't notice it)

[lavish dove]

ahh dont have a screen shot? it just shows the icon to the left of the bar as if it was another power just on the other side

vs the old partials it would give your level which is felt gave off massive charm points

[ocean leaf]

Exactly, I think I'm more harping on, stating that it is an inherently flawed and negative system to the game, that detracts from the overall experience, while there are statements from players, stating that it has helped them better understand a character, feels very limiting to those perspectives. I think giving the option to remove the weapon on the screen is a good idea, because I could see it being clutter, but I don't think removing it entirely is the solution.

[lavish dove]

ECHOING!!! massive agree i love this form and would love to talk about it at some point

[steady wave]

in my perspective it detracts from the overall experience, holistically. as a new player and a vet i would dislike this. please do not speak for me or draw conclusions from my words that i am not directly stating. it's just my opinion as well - and not representative of anyone else

[cyan trout]

Is this it?

[lavish dove]

yes

[cyan trout]

Because if this is it, it shows players got more, conveys what it can be (with a lil bit of experience), but doesn't look threatening as a soul should be

But I like the look of it, but maybe might need an indicator you're in for danger if you see that

[lavish dove]

just add the particles back!!! they where so charming imo!!!

[cyan trout]

It whispers advantage, when it should scream it

[lavish dove]

i’ll die on this hill

[sand meadow]

i'm going to be honest, those indicators are so small that if they were on a fast moving char they would be incredibly hard to see exactly what they are

it's already hard sometimes to see like a team appearing out of the sky and figuring out what soul buffs they have when its a gigantic blue shield and their health bar is glowing red

[cyan trout]

It also gives off "those are items" and not souls*

But ye, wanted to ask, are my friends and I the only ones troubled by the game having huge increments and HP not increasing by said increments only considering how fast the game can go and how important gathering info in split seconds can be?

[lavish dove]

honestly i would still dislike it but i would settle for those particals back, untilt the design a bit, make the level more readable, remove the hp bar at the bottom left.

[clever raft]

Yeah, I think this is super fair

[cyan trout]

I like HP bar at the bottom left, imo it's important, as long you do a few things : Put your party stats lower, remove yours in that party hud, scale down your own portrait hud, and like that you got the "what's the state of the team" corner space to gather valuable info

[clever raft]

It’s good to get general vibes around Soul readability - we didn’t really touch on it until now, but I think it’s a great callout

[fickle knoll]

Id say the hp bar at the bottom should be like 789/1000 flat hp number bar. Atleast id preffer that

[lavish dove]

is there a reason it has to be a bar though?

[cyan trout]

If you want some feedback on things I might have missed due to being impaired on last few playtests, just ask, I missed on a few things already

[cyan trout]

Wdym?

[clever raft]

We used to have that and I also got conflicting feedback that it wasn’t very readable heh

[ocean leaf]

I personally think that soul empowerments should be visual more on the character, rather then their healthbar. IE if they have damage soul then there could be a little aura of knives at their feet, armor soul are hammers, and so on, but that may be a bit to "loud" visually, so I'm not sure.

[lavish dove]

can it not just be numbers… however seeing safelocked response makes sense

[fickle knoll]

It could be combined like in league. Smaller but have number and the bar there

[sand meadow]

please no. i dont want "ronin starts sweating when he has no dashes". this game is already so messy with visual effects, it needs to be really readable extremely fast.

characters can get griefed by debuffs, cosmetics, other moving particles so easily lol

[wintry sluice]

The biggest issue previously was the text (especially mana!) wasn't readable, not necessarily that it was the wrong shape of element

This was mostly from colour contrast

I'm not against bars though

[lavish dove]

it just feels really bad and redundant to have a bar there. its very meaningful to me. but i understand that if it matters for some people i am willing to compromise on it being smaller. i just dont want it to stay the same

[cyan trout]

I'd wager it's because of huge increments maybe? Human brain has a really hard time processing numbers, and it works in OW because it's 25HP a bar and heroes have like 200 hp give or take it most of the time

[ocean leaf]

I meant only for the soul powers, since there isn't really a place for them on the health bars, but that's mroe what I meant by it being too "Loud" (Too many things happening at once making it impossible to read)

[wintry sluice]

Also this thread is very long so it's hard to know if something has already been brought up but it was incredibly hard to see what powers someone had this patch because of the rarity being a block background colour to the power icon

[cyan trout]

Battlerite also had small increments for small hp, I could easily do maths in an instant to know which one of my opponents I'd one tap with my cds going back on on Jamila

[wintry sluice]

I also couldn't see what upgrade level peoples weapons were?

[ocean leaf]

I think one of the better examples of this was Grace (My beloved) where it has the feet behind you whenever you actually get the passive

[wintry sluice]

This isn't really great and unique visual clarity it happens on every speed buff in the game

[lavish dove]

hasnt been brought up, i kinda disagree but I normally struggle to see powers so take my word with a grain of salt

[sand meadow]

figuring out what enemy is on what team is also so much worse now, like this tiny little slanted line on the left of a health bar is so incredibly important and hidden. i just wish we could see showmatch healthbars in game holy

[ocean leaf]

I.. did not know it happened on everything

[lavish dove]

this was def worse but i feel like its likely due to growing pains

[clever raft]

I got both notes, but I hear ya

[sand meadow]

we could see the game with this kind of team identifier and instead we have

[lavish dove]

OKG YES

[sand meadow]

this

[keen creek]

LOL

I didn't even fucking realise

it's that hard to notice ;-;

[keen creek]

But yes this is needed

It's sometimes hard to tell there's more than one team immidiatly

[steady wave]

yeah this is just truly unreadable

i have been messing w/ nvidia settings more and more lately to make the game more readable

which is something i think i should never have to do

[sand meadow]

to be fair, this is also bad. but hey atleast i can see more than 3 pixels of it.

i would love to just see the health bar though.

[steady wave]

nameplates are a huge design challenge though tbf

[sand meadow]

so i dont have to look at my minimap when im getting third partied by two different green teams and see this wonderful mess

to figure out what team we are all fighting

[clever raft]

Are you the mythical footprint VFX enjoyer?

[lavish dove]

I feel like having these as color options is just so fucking cooked
to begin with

[steady wave]

indeed

that is also why i have been messing with nvidia settings

what is the difference between lime green and pea green when i am glancing at the minimap for 200ms

[sand meadow]

visual clarity.

[steady wave]

i can't tell! and neither can my colorblind teammate!

[cyan trout]

@lavish dove but ye essentially a month ago I was working on an UI mockup for things I wanted to see in the UI before carpal stroke, but now most things became real

[lavish dove]

why dont we have a gray team?

[cyan trout]

Scale ain't it, disregard it, and it only features party hud when I had plans for most other things

[keen creek]

Credit to miragent, too funny not to post in this context

[lavish dove]

or a light gray team? would be better then the double greens.

[wintry sluice]

I hate the internet

[keen creek]

[clever raft]

Omg

[lavish dove]

Eeehhhh idk if im into it. i see what you are cooking though

[cyan trout]

HAHA It's missing hp bar for main hero, imagine it's there I forgot to group it xd

[lavish dove]

I personally think the new character art was absolutely pretty (idk how to spell gourgus, dysgraphia moment) and i just want it a bit smaller but let it be big. its good for spectators

[cyan trout]

Ye

OH I FORGOT TO TOUCH UPON SOMETHING

[lavish dove]

LMAO

[clever raft]

Lol, I got the level note. Understood there

[ocean leaf]

I know it's a bit taboo to praise it, but I do think one of the best "This person has this active" in a PVP game is actually Dead Man's Plate in League, the simple red line behind them is clear, visually distinct, and gives a feeling of what they are gaining with the passive.

[wintry sluice]

It's team colour as well

[keen creek]

^ its team colour

[lavish dove]

nono, not the level, the team color being like invisable.

[wintry sluice]

The level matters too TBF

[clever raft]

Oh, I was going to respond to the other screenshot about team color

[cyan trout]

The passive placement is a bit random I'd say. The idea is neat, but ye I'd rather see it along the spell bar more than where it is, it's kinda disruptive as every UI segment should be located where you need to gather linked info (in this instance, your character's kit)
And finally understood the weapon stands for left click, ye no not a fan either even more

[ocean leaf]

I dont see color, everyone in the lobby is just a free kill

[clever raft]

But yeah, I feel like team color has always been tuff; was going to pull latest just to see it all together

[clever raft]

Facts

[ocean leaf]

Did want to ask, did you see the post about the Most wanted crown? And making the ally most wanted crown a differnt color on the mini map so we arent hunting out teammate on accident?

[keen creek]

when you play in korea newbie lobbies as a dev with.. a ton of hours /j

[sand meadow]

its always felt bad that when i watch a showmatch from the showmatch perspective of the game i just played i can tell whatever team is who 10-15x easier compared to my own replays.

like we're playing and we're panicking figuring out who is on what team from our perspectives.

and in showmatch u just see these obviously very different health bars that u cannot miss

[ocean leaf]

(Since it's kind of related)

[clever raft]

Hmm - I don’t think so - can you link me?

[lavish dove]

is there a reason those 2 green colors are so close, its honestly one of the only issues

[tender holly]

I’m always on the hunt, no matter if it’s friend or foe

[ocean leaf]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1286431218216468511

TLDR, having the enemy most wanted the same color as an ally can lead to some confusion

[tender holly]

But yes making it a diff color for allies would be a nice adjustment

[steady wave]

i think a lot of the team colors are too indistinct even when different

borders are a few pixels wide, you have to make sense of it all in seconds. it's a bit easier now with adjustments to my color settings, though

[clever raft]

Grey teams can be rough if you’re coloring the health bar. Typically that can read as a health state (no health, or grey health depending on the game)

[raven dagger]

i just resort to looking at the minimap at all times to check for amount of teams on my screen

[lavish dove]

I can see that being a issue. Understood thank you for the response

[raven dagger]

cus its impossible to do otherwise

[clever raft]

Yeah, same - I think it’s an easy case to bring up to the team; I’m just planning on looking at the full palette

[livid hinge]

true

[keen creek]

me when i void swap ally wisp into the abyss

[cyan trout]

I'm cooking something if you give me a hot minute 🍳

[lavish dove]

IS THAT LITTLE COOK!?

[clever raft]

Gotcha - yep, I don’t think this is contentious

[wet robin]

For me it currently feels like I have to put way to much effort into looking for my CDs / Powers instead of actually foucsing on the fight. Most of the time I just went of feels this playtest. I more than often just though "if I press this button it should be off cooldown" instead of actually checking for it.

Generally I think many people have differences on where they want to have their cooldowns etc. displayed. Adding HUD customization would solve this since everyone can just design it to their own preferences. (Example from FF14) Even if a full customization would be too much effort to implement / keep in check over the years I think having multiple HUD layouts you can switch between would alleviate a lot of frustrations with it.

[ocean leaf]

Safe Color for Ally crown = Blue
Based Answer for Ally Crown = Purple

[lavish dove]

It would take dev time but this would be meaningful to me.

[cyan trout]

Also it would need to be made carefully, as it has quite a few limitations that you can notice especially when you're on the modding side, things that have been discovered and answered some questions

Essentially, in FFXIV IT HAS to have an innate layering, so if TC ever wants to push it, they need to consider a way to adjust which layers hud elements go to or else you end up with some limitations in the setup, with certain elements going on top of others without control over it

[clever raft]

It’s one of the most time-consuming requests you can ask on the UI side by far for sure - the other tricky thing is that very rarely will you see players opting out of defaults, so the high dev cost is really serving a small group

Not to invalidate the feels, just to put it into perspective

[lavish dove]

I see. this does put it into perspective thank you!

I didnt realize it would be so much work.

[fickle knoll]

So what are the general thougts on UI so far summed up

[wintry sluice]

Custom ui is obviously the optimal end goal (but probably unrealistic) but I think I would be happy with just having a couple options available (e.g. which corner the map is in, abilities centred or to the side, that kinda stuff)

[clever raft]

Everything else we talked about on the UI side would be less work than making the UI customizable, said another way

[lavish dove]

If possible this would be nice. unsure how hard this would be though

[wet robin]

I'm curious do you guys have looked into this / got feedback off people who would not edit their HUD? I'd say most of the people I play MMOs interact with HUD customization. Honestly this could be a very biased take from me since I interact mostly with players who like to tryhard in those game

[hushed salmon]

smh. default gamers OUT 👉

[cyan trout]

Sweet spot would be fixing most general issues with UI, and then maybe proposing some different layouts down the line that work for different cuts of people

[wet robin]

Yea this would already be plenty enough

[ocean leaf]

I dont think we need a "Drag and drop" HUD system, at least like in the first 2 years, but a "I want this here" would be nice to get eventually

[cyan trout]

But we mmo players go out of our way to eat gpus for breakfast, the logic doesn't really apply for the wide market, which prefers a controlled and fine tuned baseline

[glad merlin]

didn't check latest patch but several times I've just wanted simple hud upscaling and couldn't

[clever raft]

This is from me being on League for a long-ass time, but also from other game companies - same anecdotes

[wet robin]

There is HUD scaling but I think it's on max by default

[wintry sluice]

Really big note on this, the max scaling which is in the game is not really a maximum, let me go to the limit where UI elements are touching

[clever raft]

I’m sure MMOs are a bit of a different beast - feel like you live or die by everything on your 100 hotbars

[wintry sluice]

If someone sets their settings badly for them that's ok, they're settings, but especially for people with more visual impairment it's so important that stuff is just big enough to see

[lavish dove]

Hey! its not 100… its 10

[clever raft]

Hahah

[keen creek]

(thousand)

[cyan trout]

It should just reach a state of cohesive information spaces (after all.. the main goal of a UI is to give out info), fine tuned, and maybe give extra plausible set ups OR give, like League, the ability to place certain UI elements in different corners

I only for 4 on FFXIV, tho I play on controller hehe

[wet robin]

honestly with the amount of hotbars I change with marcos it just might be 100

[lavish dove]

this! accessibility is super important

[lavish dove]

I… fuck your right

[ocean leaf]

Side note (Genuinely dont know) is there a colorblind mode?

[sand meadow]

there is but it doesn't work very well and this game is visually horrible for colourblind people. like almost unreadable in many game & ui elements. and seems to be getting worse and worse every patch

[wet robin]

I think there is ? I saw some clip which had changed color plates

[ocean leaf]

Cool, just didn't know if there was one or not

[keen creek]

Okay, I said this earlier but it probably got lost so, now that we're getting into more general stuff, I will link this thread once again, and I think @wintry sluice can give a great summary of it; social systems need a lot of work
https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1285189824092831784

[proper stag]

Safelocked, please tell us you saw the feedback about social aspects 🙏

[clever raft]

I saw it earlier when you posted this

[ocean leaf]

I think we are still kind of directing the convo toward Colorization, visuals, and HUD, also Safelocked probably needs sleep soon lol, but I do think we should talk about that stuff soon

[proper stag]

Ok confirmed

LOL

[ocean leaf]

Unless she is trucking on through the night lol

[clever raft]

Honestly, a lot of that is on our list hahah

[keen creek]

Understandable

just wanted to be sure

sorry! c:

[clever raft]

Nah all good

[lavish dove]

good to know

[wintry sluice]

what do you mean, my UI space is definitely reasonable

[wet robin]

wait didnt she want to sleep like 8 hours ago? I literally went to sleep and woke up

[ocean leaf]

What's on for movie night?

[wet robin]

average WoW enjoyer

[wintry sluice]

thats in my druid UI not my priest lol

[ocean leaf]

Ah, my bad

[cyan trout]

OH GOD WoW ui is definitely something xd

[clever raft]

It’s really just a matter of building all of it. Services crew is building social, but also the same people building store, progression, scaling infra for higher populations

PC bang integration

They’re real heroes

[lavish dove]

oh btw question, is open beta more important or is release more important. Imo as a consumer i tend to see open beta AS a release, unless its not 24/7 forever

^weird question i know both are important just curious on opinions and thoughts

[clever raft]

I think that’s up to the player!

[lavish dove]

good to know!

[ocean leaf]

I do know I am very weird when it comes to HUD, in that I barely read it, or look at it.... I have a couple thousand hours in league, about 70% of that being on Ekko.. and I dont remember the last time I actively looked at the numbers, cooldowns or scaling on anything he has, I couldn't tell you a single one of him scaling numbers lol. So I'm usually fine with any Hud, unless it gives me information like "How much ammo I have"

[clever raft]

I think of beta as more as a game state, vs. a patch. Hitting a live environment with SUPERVIVE is going to hit snags that we anticipate as devs and community, and ones we totally don’t. Beta gives us some breathing room philosophically I think to get our bearings in a live environment. We memed that League was in beta for years. But it was more like…we were learning what was actually important to the full audience, what the team was good at making.

[wintry sluice]

I look at my HUD often especially when trying out new / less familiar characters
this test I wanted to play zeph, but I don't remember by heart exactly the mana cost of all of my abilities or the actual max mana # that zeph has for each level
I saw my mana bar was low on my nameplate and I wanted to know if I had enough mana to heal + tornado and throw a grenade, or if I had to hold throwing the grenade to keep the mana to cast my other spells.
I looked to the bottom left, and had to stare mid-fight for ~2 seconds just to actually read what the number was for my mana because the element was so small even with max HUD scaling, and then I looked at my ability icons but... the mana costs aren't there anymore? So I had to start hovering over my abilities to read the tooltips and - I died because I couldn't see the fight
the answer was I was about 15 mana off from being able to cast nade in the end, which I finally was able to figure out quickly after i was dead

[wet robin]

I completly agree with this but this isn't given for everyone and I would argue that it's not a good new player experience. I just started to experiment with more character and try out if I like to play when and I just don't have every memorized by heart.

[cyan trout]

The best UI is the one that you "don't actively notice", yet gives you all info needed

[clever raft]

Based on how few people I saw in practice know what tooltips said, I think this is way more common than you give credit for

[ocean leaf]

I dont have jack memorized on Ekko either lol, I should have specified, I just go off feel. I personally go off feel rather then numbers and stats.

[ocean leaf]

Aww man, I'm not unique

Dang it

[clever raft]

Hahaha

[keen creek]

personally i'd rather know the exact numbers

I like knowing i dealt 531 of psychic damage to the enemy

[clever raft]

I just meant you’re not weird! Is…is that also a miss? Lol

[keen creek]

[cyan trout]

I should have been more precise on that "you don't actively notice". UI is there to communicate, in a compact and supposedly ergonomic manner, information back to the user. It's there to second hand info that can be hard to guess (if not impossible), but when the ui gets in the way of getting said information naturally or makes it harder than pure feeling, it's where it starts to break down

[ocean leaf]

LOL

[cyan trout]

It's essentially the issue I have with mana in supervive. Its need and how it's supposed to be displayed do not align with the design philosophy of the game imo

[ocean leaf]

Yea, that's fair

[wet robin]

It because at some point it became a habit / muscle memory but if you can't build up that memory with an actual feedback of seeing the ability coming off cooldown it just takes more time to reach that point. (+ with some changes to the hunter kits this because even harder but that is an alpha problem)

[cyan trout]

Exactly. UI second handed building that muscle memory 👍

[fickle knoll]

I feel like you build the cd memory down in a few hours of playing (Tho I mained udyr in league so I might have a nack for developing muscle memory)

[clever raft]

Can you tell me more about this?

[ocean leaf]

I do think one thing that SV does 100% correct with it's cooldowns in the hotbar is the colorization, when something is on cooldown it has a drastically different colorization then when it is available, which is a HUGE problem with Deadlock IMO, the ability icons in that game are Color outline, and Grey, then when it's on cooldown it's greyscale. y'all's drastic color changes from Grey to the ability colorization is perfect in the game, I havent thought "I though it was off cooldown" once while playing the game.

(That being said, it was hard to read how many charges I had this test, specifically with Shrike RMB)

[cyan trout]

Most of the thoughts are in the feedback thread I referenced earlier, here #1281611021546688512 message

[clever raft]

Yep, heard

[ocean leaf]

[cyan trout]

It's pretty long and I baked that for a long time, so ain't flooding it here xd

[wintry sluice]

I think I disagree
A game like dota does it much better
I struggle to see visually the difference between "on cooldown" vs "out of mana" vs "unlevelled" because they're all grey iirc
out of mana is grey but also just hides the tooltip by putting a dropplet icon over my tooltip which mostly just makes it less clear

[lavish dove]

okay i’m starting to get sleepy

good night everyone thanks for the talks!

[fickle knoll]

I had my 8 hours of sleep while this discussion was still going on

[cyan trout]

No you're not allowed 😦 (good night)

[lavish dove]

nvm im staying /j

[keen creek]

Also isn't it.. 6 am for safelocked?

[ocean leaf]

Yea, I was specifically focusing on the On cooldown thing, and not getting confused if something was on cooldown or not, the mana thing is a bit confusing, and could use a tad bit of a touchup. Also dont know if the "Unleveled" needs to be a different look compared to the others

[wintry sluice]

out of mana is actually a slightly bluer-grey but I think this isn't super visually clear for where it is in the UI

[wet robin]

I really don't like the out of mana Icon, (in order out of mana, CD, not leveled)

[ocean leaf]

How does OOM look in Dota?

But also, I dont think Unleveld needs to be it's own unique visual, cause you should probably know if you leveled something or not

[sand meadow]

dota 2ge

[clever raft]

It’s…2:52AM

[wet robin]

I really like how league handels CDs

[cyan trout]

Sorry 😦

[clever raft]

Hahahah

[clever raft]

Nah, the time got away from me.

[fickle knoll]

I would reccomend sleep. in our sleep we process information.

[cyan trout]

It's nearly midday for me, I joined as I woke up

[fickle knoll]

Its 1 pm here

[ocean leaf]

So... just blue-scale?

instead of Greyscale

[cyan trout]

Anic pinging me on wake up

[keen creek]

Well, still really early

or late?

time is weird

[clever raft]

Alright, I should get some sleep.

[ocean leaf]

Cause if I'm being honest, the water droplet feels WAY better then that, cause I mean, what if the ability icon is Blue

[ocean leaf]

Good night safelocked!

[cyan trout]

"They redid the player HUD again this playtest, come on in we're talking about it"

Good night Safelocked, rest well, and remain based (always been a fan)

[clever raft]

Don’t get into too much trouble here while I’m gone

Lol

[keen creek]

Goodnight~ Thank you for listening and discussing, it's been very nice!

[keen creek]

Don't worry I'll bonk em if they make trouble >:D

[wet robin]

not us we would never

[keen creek]

(lightly)

[clever raft]

[ocean leaf]

Dont say that, now Fate is gunna start a wisp fight club

[keen creek]

LOL

That actually sounds really fun

just tiny little wisps fighting eachother xD

[ocean leaf]

Chair Clears 10/10 matches

[keen creek]

Ehh, but chonky cat

[livid hinge]

You can't bonk me, I'm the favorite bad noodle

I'd win, I'm allowed to start trouble

[lavish dove]

get me in there

[proper stag]

Or we lock this thread until Safelocked come back

[ocean leaf]

That.. may honestly be the best option

[livid hinge]

jokes aside, ye probably lock it

[cyan trout]

I'm good with that

[clever raft]

I have been summoned

I’ll lock it up until…checking cal

6PM PST. I got a dayjob too 🙂

[livid hinge]

[proper stag]

I could have done it too but thank you

[keen creek]

<t:1727398800:t> <- (Automatically converts to your timezone)

[neon fable]

I know this is late, but I preferred this 1000000x more than the new one

Oh just saw thread was locked. 💀

[clever raft]

Hahaha

Busted

[clever raft]

Hi.

[lavish dove]

HI IM HERE!

[pine solstice]

Welcome back everyone

[lavish dove]

I was showering
but now im not

[clever raft]

Lol, take your time. I'm not going anywhere.

[pine solstice]

So... where were we...

[clever raft]

Reviewing some of the topics - let me take a moment to pick the next one off the list.

[pine solstice]

Sounds good. Btw, synoyd asked me to share something he wanted to mentioned about UI, but he's in bed, here it is:

[tender holly]

I ss that and cropped it because I liked it too!

[clever raft]

This goes for things broadly - but in general, I'll always want something more descriptive than the word better.

[tender holly]

It’s very clean and simple and provides more precise information than the current imo. I think I mentioned it yesterday, but I look at the UI above my character for quick general info on my health, mana, shield, etc. and I’m used to looking down for more precise numbers on the rare occasion if necessary.

[lavish dove]

I am not a fan of square minimap but i do like the bottom left portion!

[fading ether]

I do also think abilities in the center of the screen is a big deal for me when it comes to where I naturally look for them as a MMO/MOBA player, bottom left was a lot of extra brainwork for the same result and not much more cleanliness

[pine solstice]

@vernal vortex For you to check out later

[lavish dove]

Mhm! its also a easier eye movement to check

[tender holly]

I will say I’ve never played with the ability layout mimicking keybind order so I can’t say if I’d prefer it or not. I’m very comfortable with the current layout order of the abilities and it’s similar in other games.

[clever raft]

Hmm - I didn't need more HUD feedback since this is reiterating some of the same points from yesterday, I think.

If we want to make sure the points are encapsulated in a summary, what I might do is lock this again, summarize what we covered yesterday, and make a new game state thread.

[lavish dove]

👍

[clever raft]

And start there - so that we're not rehashing the same topics. I want to make sure we're covering ground that this group wanted to talk about that hasn't been discussed yet, if that makes sense.

[fading ether]

also down to just drop the hud idea and give feedback on whichever topic was next on the list, no worries, my bad!

[pine solstice]

I think we're good to move on, just wanted to make sure I sent synoyd's message, cause he asked me to.

[smoky minnow]

HI

[lavish dove]

but we need to get this thread to 10000 messages TWT /j

I do think summerizing here and starting a new thread would make sense

[smoky minnow]

new topics

jess, can i ask why the dev team thinks they need to simplify the game? I think it would help us give feedback if we understood the process

Idr if we talked about this yesterday

[pine solstice]

If people want to discuss the HUD more, I'm sure there's another feedback post, they can discuss there.

[lavish dove]

this would actually be helpful

[tender holly]

Yes! I want to understand the direction being taken from the dev perspective

[clever raft]

Yeah, let me do that. One thing I've been thinking about also is to make megathreads for each playtest, so that we're also resharing the goals of what's gone into each build, and the relevant feedback's attached.

[smoky minnow]

That would be good

[lavish dove]

I was actually hoping this would happen! im glad its being concidered

[clever raft]

This is not a concrete goal that the dev team has - I think this is a misunderstanding.

[smoky minnow]

Ohh ok so what's the goal then

This is what the majority of vets think I believe so

[clever raft]

Hold on, haha. Let me do what I promised at the start of this discussion. Give me ten to summarize some of the highlights of what we covered.

[smoky minnow]

ok

[lavish dove]

def a reallllyy common sentament thrown around

[clever raft]

Otherwise, we're going to branch out to topics we didn't mean to cover. I appreciate ya.

Alright, hold tight.

[smoky minnow]

We let Jess cook rq

[honest mountain]

i can lock for a bit if needed

nvm its locked

im blind