A game worthy of 10,000 hours...

[river plaza]

i think the patch we played yesterday people are being a bit harsh with since these tests are always super experiemental, like when they added backpedal

and when they added the extra range on shots when crouching

[fringe musk]

I think a lot of things have been added that I liked, but there has been a lot of things that I didnt.

[junior aurora]

the pensato signature thing?

[ocean leaf]

This is extremely important to remember

[fringe musk]

I was always a supporter of powers 3.0 even with how much everyone hated it, its still the most fun ive had during a supervive playtest

[river plaza]

the real petition we need is for them to nerf every characther that JMO makes

[fringe musk]

It was just incredibly unbalanced

[smoky minnow]

Myth needs a buff i thought

[river plaza]

apart from myth

[fringe musk]

I think its the same case with the current items they are just very unbalanced which leads to people not liking the system

[river plaza]

and myth is OP as fuck on last patch

imo

like for me the last 3 playtests were ruined by Brall then Oath and Oath

those heros were so unbalanced it felt depressing to paly

[small ingot]

oath go br

[river plaza]

but the actual game outside of that felt just as good as before

[severe surge]

I will say, I am not one that tends to think on the negative side of things when we go patch to patch dependant on what is being tested. This test though was one of the first times in forever I wish it just got reverted and instead TC double down on focusing on the equipment finalization, I think the drop mechanic is just another quirky thing that should be left to its vices. The abyss spiking I can't really speak on because I don't know how it felt different tbh, but others do. The ADS thing is just crazy to add into the game imo, but it is something that was somewhat neat I'd like to see it again eventually. The new equipment was sick, but the BIG problem I had with it, was it just replaced the OP stuff from the test before, like Mindblade gets replaced with Rampage, but the items in general just feel like uhhhhhhhh so back and forth. Honestly I'd rather TC double down and go hard on the items and make them really sick and meaningful then just do stat sticks v3.0, but 🤷. Lastly just to kinda add onto it, personally I think the core of the game is great, but like Pensato said if you slowly reduce the depth of the game to cater to new players and you remove the reason behind TC (10,000 hour games).

Bounce back TC find your footing, PREPARE THIS GAME FOR BETA LIKE I KNOW YOU CAN!!!!!!!!

I am also so sorry for the grammatical errors I really don't feel like proofreading since I just typed how I would say it in voice LOL.

This will probably be the last time I ever type in discussion LMAO, but who knows I usually avoid this channel LOL!!!

I promise I am not bashing you wonderful developers I don't personally know how directly hard you are working, but If I imagine it and times it by 10 then wait 10 years and multiply it again, I'd probably get there!

[smoky minnow]

how many "!" in wedel message someone go

[unique zephyr]

But then he'd be striking 😂

[river plaza]

i need to know

whats mikes name on discord?

[fringe musk]

I know this is like legit probably the 10th time I have typed this and I read safelocked's response about it, but removing the powers that dont give instant gratification and actually had unique situations where they were good is really bad even if its just temporarily, getting a weird combo that somehow worked like green thumb brush boar was really fun but for some reason we had to get rid of brush boar???

I just think a lot of powers that got removed were just removed because they dont give insta value so they were picked up less by the average playe

[river plaza]

i dont think they've gotten rid of the powers tho

they are just cycling them?

diodnt they say that?

[fringe musk]

I mean they are temporarily shelving them

Which is still bad

Its the reason I personally have found the game less fun

[river plaza]

i mean they are cycling in new powers for playtests which i think is fine?

[fringe musk]

No

[river plaza]

still in testing phase

[steady wave]

tbf backpedal sucked in the past and it sucked that time too LOL

[fringe musk]

In the last couple playtests they havent added a power in like 4-5 tests unless its replacing one that is basically the same

[river plaza]

yea but they insta reverted it is my point

[fringe musk]

and they have removed like atleast 5-10

[river plaza]

they added a bunch of powers no?

[fringe musk]

No?

[honest mountain]

#1288552952478568508 message

[river plaza]

like all the full HP stuff

[honest mountain]

this is what jess said at the start

[fringe musk]

I am aware

[honest mountain]

yea just bringing it back up incase ppl werent here

[ocean leaf]

I really like the Delicate stuff

[river plaza]

bring back missle

missile

[fringe musk]

I litearlly said I have read her response but I think shelving them even if its temporary is bad, right now every game I see the same 8-10 powers on every team, its so boring

[ocean leaf]

YES

PLEASE

[steady wave]

rereading this stresses me out. the ui is basically nonfunctional LOL

[fringe musk]

I remember playing against a kp like 6-7 games in a row

and every single game he managed to get an invis cloak

[clever raft]

Not against us, heh.

[river plaza]

yea i mean i get this part for sure

[clever raft]

Ok, let's talk about TTK.

I wrote all the notes down for the last topic.

[vocal canopy]

and it begins

[fringe musk]

That shouldnt happen imo, I think you shouldnt be able to "guarantee" powers in a way

[fringe musk]

uh oh

[hexed parrot]

I guess am not sleeping tonight. gg

[orchid hedge]

i don't think thats necessarily a problem of them shelving majority of powers, but more that players will always tend to pick the most optimal powers and eventually everyone just kinda follows along

[clever raft]

How do you feel about TTK? Specifically - what's driving your perception of TTK?

[river plaza]

TTK feels way too fast, ever since the addition of the new items it felt too fast and this patch it got even faster

[fringe musk]

When the power pool is generally lower you have an easier time finding the power u want every game

[pine solstice]

@keen creek get the clip, you know the one.

[tender holly]

TTK felt very odd this patch. You could get one shot which I don’t think that is ever the intention for this game.

[river plaza]

Items that give bonus AP like mindblade ruin alot of the balance of TTK and 1 shot combos since you can't balance eveyrthing around having another 30-50 AP

[vocal canopy]

Health regeneration would be a cool stat to add for tank items to help getting less insta bursted dwn

[river plaza]

imo ideally the item system should be based around utilty items rather than just raw damage/stat stick items

[lavish dove]

tf how?

[honest mountain]

TTK is just too fast because of how the items work

[fringe musk]

I think TTK is in a really weird spot where squishies die way too quick and tanks die way too slow

[river plaza]

because if you have stat sticks then everyone is just gonna take them instead of utility

[fringe musk]

I can litearlly oneshot someone off a RJ punch

[ionic elm]

IMO TTK should probably scoot higher than lower, one way or another. Getting outright instagibbed isn't fun, outright instagibbing people feels boring, and borderline instant TTK probably requires healing to be equally strong for it to actually be relevant in combat.

[steady wave]

yeah it's the two extremes. people die either instantly or they are a true raid boss

[stone gulch]

This is a video one of my friends showed me but this is one of many instances I'm sure players had this last patch where people would just get 1 shot.

Clip by @ocean leaf tmk, dont know where my friend got it.

edit: Deleted original video since user has double edged sword which doubles damage, don't want to skew productive conversation based on that

[lavish dove]

Shiv blasting half my HP sucked

[pine solstice]

Furthermore, if the TTK is built around people having items like Mindblade, then it prevents people from building things other than Mindblade (as an example), or they will seriously lack damage

[river plaza]

this is just becuas eof the weapon that makes u take double damage

[steep dagger]

ttk in patch before this one was too slow, but this one feels 2 fast

[river plaza]

im pretty sure

[lavish dove]

This ^

[tender holly]

TTK and items play hand in hand here so it’s hard to discuss it without addressing items imo

[ocean leaf]

It's from the KP channel, and looking at it more, the guy had the double damage item

[river plaza]

exactly hence why items giving more AP than others is fundmentally toxic design

[ocean leaf]

I was not doing that much damage throughout that game

[stone gulch]

Ah okay, I will unsend that clip then since it is skewed to tell a certain narrative that won't be productive to changes

[pine solstice]

(I have been saying this for so long now...)

[wintry sluice]

My only real thought on TTK is I think the game is pretty bad when TTK is too high, and I think its pretty crazy for full tank build characters to also kill squishies quickly

[orchid hedge]

but it would be the same with more, eventually you'll see more of the same with few exception where people breaks the ''meta'' - We kinda have the same problem in other games, league being one - you have 200+ champions, yet we almost see the same champions every single game - with few exception when riot decides they wanna buff someone.

Even if you had for example 80+ different and original power, how many of them will just end up becoming extremely situational/niche and others the most popular option?

[river plaza]

also i dont think tanks die too slowly, only oath

[lavish dove]

I think the reason on why TTK feels so so bad is because the item evolutions are not done properly.

[river plaza]

but thats because he is overtuned rather than to do with the TTK

[lavish dove]

the system is fine, just like. evolutions cant just give more stats.

[river plaza]

i've never struggled to kill like full tank KP or felix

[honest mountain]

TTK was fine before new items, i think the items just made everything die too quick

[fringe musk]

You couldnt guarantee powers in the same way you can now, they have added a lot of biome powers and such that it feels way too easy to get "BiS" powers every single game

[fringe musk]

Greed + tank item would like to speak with u

[hollow gulch]

I think ttk is largely fine. It feels like there are a lot of hard to dodge or impossible to dodge abilities that set up or are one shot combos and it feels really bad.

[smoky minnow]

Think of like a number line - TTK is too high up ok it and also too low on it imo but not in the middle where we want it to be

[river plaza]

yea i'd still kill fast

[fringe musk]

I think you shouldnt die from ONE ability, unless its like kp hook or smth

[vocal canopy]

⬆️

[fringe musk]

yeah cause ur champ does %maxhp dmg

[river plaza]

never felt that greed + tank was too tanky

[fringe musk]

so does mine

[hexed parrot]

TTK i feel balance heavily around equipment. I think the equipment are lacking in creative upgrades. There are too many stat sticks. I do want to have fun. But personally i enjoy winning and min maxing. And the current equipment pushes you towards the stats sticks over the creative ones, if you wanna win. We need more "power like" upgrades rather than going for stats

[fringe musk]

which is why they are op

[river plaza]

even when i play myth its the same

[orchid hedge]

play shiv vs full tank felix xD

[river plaza]

i think tank items/ tank hunters are balanced badly tbf

[ocean leaf]

There are certain character Cought Oath and Zeph Cough ruin the TTK feeling, like my big engages are impactful because they either just block all the damage, or heal everything I did back up in a second

[pine solstice]

Basically: The current items polarize ttk to typically be too fast. But, if you have a high toughness and you go tank items, you can have the time-to-kill-you be very slow.

[lavish dove]

add butterfly cyberknife

[river plaza]

but thats for another day

[smoky minnow]

Venomous video moment

[rare zenith]

it doesent feel good

[fringe musk]

Idk I think I shouldnt be able to legit oneshot a squishy from one rj punch into a wall

[river plaza]

yea

[orchid hedge]

i wanna end myself so bad in game every time 💀

[fringe musk]

While they are full cc'd the entire time

[river plaza]

same with storm E shouldnt 1 shot

[fringe musk]

I just think 1 ability shouldnt mean death unless its the extremes like KP hook or some ultimates

[hollow gulch]

Taking 570 from shatter feels too much for how you play against it

[wintry sluice]

its also super fun when an rj punches me (alive as a hunter) and it kills me, and also 1shots my wisp in the same punch

[clever raft]

Alright, swapping from work to this channel again - scrolling..

[river plaza]

issue is when you increase the damage by 10-15% all of a sudden things that arent 1 shots become 1 shots

E.G joule combo and Bishop combo

and when they are true 1 shots

its super problematic

and you need to rebalance them all together

[fringe musk]

Yeah I mean this is just a weird interaction where she kills u in the punch and it still counts the wisp as u

Probably easily fixable

[orchid hedge]

the difference is like you said, it make sens that KP would OS you if he lands a hook, cause you should be rewarded for landing the skill shot

[wintry sluice]

Idk its been a bug for like a year now lol

[fringe musk]

I dont think its a bug

I think its intended

just feels shit

[wintry sluice]

oh fr?

[fringe musk]

Yeah

[orchid hedge]

but Felix you just go In press E and you do good damage + anti heal + you get a shield and really tanky

[clever raft]

Can you give me a few examples of where it felt too fast?

[river plaza]

I don't have any videos, but landing a fully charged myth shot was hitting for like 600, joule full E combo was 1 shotting whereas before it would leave them on 10%

[tranquil oar]

I was playing ghost with 2 damage items and I got hit by a shrike bird and an LMB and died at 100% hp yesterday (no shrike passive was on me, it was first shot)

[smoky minnow]

Shirke --> anti heal lvl 3 and then lmb someone

[clever raft]

Oh, I see a Storm one - but yeah, bundling would be great.

[orchid hedge]

you are basically just stat checking your opponent -

[river plaza]

i watched shrike apply mark on a 90% target with the E

and kill from 90% HP

[lavish dove]

I will say this safelocked, if you guys removed focus due to the new UAV changes, please add it back in. it was the most interesting item last patch because it was on vampblade which most hunters dislike but the function was really good and team orientated. it broke my heart to see it removed. same thing with blade of the third eye, it had a good function even if it was semi weak.

[fringe musk]

These are experimental lvl 3 upgrades tho right

[river plaza]

Bishop ult into push combo is 1 shot

[inner briar]

Saw this somewhere

[fringe musk]

I mean u have double dmg item

[tranquil oar]

he has double dmg item

[fringe musk]

It doesnt count

[soft fiber]

The double damage item is an issue

[tranquil oar]

but ye

[inner briar]

But that was new item no?

[fringe musk]

No

Its an exotic

that makes u deal double and take double

[river plaza]

double damage item wont make it live tho i dont think

no way

[pine solstice]

Even without the double damage item though...

[vernal vortex]

same with blade of third eye

[fringe musk]

No cause the same thing happens to him

[stone gulch]

I think what is important to talk about is IN GENERAL TTK, double edged sword 1 shotting someone i dont think is the issue we are trying to talk about

[fringe musk]

since he also takes double dmg

[clever raft]

For this, you mentioned some of this might be attributable to Equipment. Is there specific Equipment you're thinking about with the scenarios you listed?

[fringe musk]

Mindblade

[river plaza]

i'd say almost always its Mindblade

[fringe musk]

It gives way too much AP for what it does

by itself

[river plaza]

also interweaver and whatever the vamp blade one is aswell

[wintry sluice]

swiftblade

[river plaza]

adds another 200-300 damage in a combo

[ocean leaf]

I think Stat check items are really skewing the capability of TTK

[pine solstice]

mindblade, greed, interweaver, rampage, swiftblade, big game hunter, helm of gigantism

[hollow gulch]

It's not mindblade, it is the concept of mindblade. If mindblade is removed it will be replaced by the next item that gives the most damage.

[fringe musk]

I think AP numbers just went up by a ton and therefore damage went up

[soft fiber]

Just getting more raw power as an item upgrade is boring (stuff like mindblade or gigantism)

[lavish dove]

Interweaver, swiftblade, helm of gigantasism, rampage, mindblade. off the top of my head.

[wintry sluice]

just wanna add though if these items aren't adding damage idk why I am picking these items in the current system, they aren't bringing any joy outside of "my damage number is higher" rn

[river plaza]

Basically my mentaillity is that any item that gives more damage than others is always gonna be picked by 90% of the cast

so BGH is the same

[orchid hedge]

which make sens

[river plaza]

even tho less OP

[steady wave]

yeah quirky fun effects are mostly reduced to "does it make me do more damage"

[river plaza]

its design is still lame

[pine solstice]

I'm gonna cry, I've been saying this since the last veteran test

[fringe musk]

I think if they were all like effects instead of dmg

It would be way better

[hollow gulch]

Yep

[river plaza]

i think the idea of having a quest that you need to stack is really cool, its just that giving the reward be AP is a problem

[unique zephyr]

Yeah the "special effects" would always be more interesting if they are fundamentally not damage related

[pine solstice]

I feel so vindicated right now

[lavish dove]

Hear me out, big game hunter had good design, the reward just needs to be like. it drops a red power. that would go HARD

[river plaza]

yea for sure

[orchid hedge]

So you would remove flat damage stats for more interesting passive or active effect ?

[fringe musk]

I know that takes a lot of effort but I think if u are gonna have one that gives extra ap or dmg as its passive

[pine solstice]

YES, god yes

[hollow gulch]

I think damage is fine, but you have to play very particularly for it.

[wintry sluice]

I'm not sure I agree personally

[fringe musk]

it will always be picked

[honest mountain]

this

[river plaza]

like the tech blade vault hacking item is really fucking cool because the reward for finishing the quest isnt just +20 AP

[fringe musk]

by litearlly everyone

[river plaza]

yea

[steady wave]

i think this is just more of the same problem

[valid torrent]

i used to play a game and created 2 metas in that games pvp. this game does not have any strategic depth in its "build making" at all for these weapon upgrades to exist. it will always be take what is the most OP stat boost. if u want weapon upgrades u should be looking at unique things instead of a stat boost. for example not saying it should be this way, but the current crouch sonar pinging could be a weapon upgrade. not a stat stick anymore, a difference in playstyle.

[rare zenith]

it would feel way more additive to the experince. It would provide another layer of depth too.

[fringe musk]

Problem with effects is that it then becomes a question of readability

[steady wave]

yeah, greed was more interesting than all of the stat items combined

[smoky minnow]

I liked enchant orbs if anyone remembers those

[clever raft]

Fwiw - I'll take these kinds of callouts too if it's coloring your perception of TTK. That's okay.

[fringe musk]

should an item be able to affect a fight without ur enemy knowing what u have

[stone gulch]

Plays into idea as well about how items should alter specific playstyles, not just be x = y but maybe you can chase a little easier (bloodscent) and stuff like that

[lavish dove]

I think its way different. its effectively the same as fighting a team and getting a pvp key however you get it by contesting objectives. you also dont get to choose the power

[hollow gulch]

Right now it's just a math test. Do you know which items give you the biggest stick with which to wack your opponents? If so, get to wacking.

[steady wave]

it's the same issue as greed

[river plaza]

^^

[lavish dove]

Can you expand on that?

[steady wave]

when we play in most lobbies people are barely contesting bosses and objectives

[river plaza]

why would i pick a ultity item when i can pick mindblade + interweaver and my storm combo deals 500 extra damage

[steady wave]

(top whatever rank lobbies)

[pine solstice]

Its the same issue with the items now: You don't know your opponent has a fully stacked greed/mindblade so you don't know that you will just get stat-checked

[lavish dove]

I see...

[steady wave]

similarly, how people running around farmingforever aren't actually punished

[ocean leaf]

I know it is a lot to ask, and is something very big to change in the game, but I personally do not think that any of the items passives should give AP or in combat damage (To players)

[fringe musk]

Yeah but if an affect affects the way their character works in a major way it becomes very unreadable

[clever raft]

Would folks here mainly attribute the TTK pain to Equipment, generally?

[stone gulch]

I feel we should try to stick on TTK instead of items, I feel that will be a seperate conversation alter (although I understand items inheirently play a part in the conversation about TTK)

[fringe musk]

more than it currently is

[fringe musk]

Yes

[river plaza]

i think so yea

[tender holly]

Yes

[honest mountain]

yes

[lavish dove]

I think poll might be smart for this one

[fringe musk]

Increased AP lead to higher ttk

[pine solstice]

yeah, for the most part

[river plaza]

either that or the changes to items having more flat AP than just LMB and ability amp

[hollow gulch]

I think some of the problematic ttk is related to hunter kits. Joule / bishop / Firefox

[stone gulch]

It seems that is what a majority of people are saying, im noticing that as well

[steady wave]

the items exaggerate outliers much more as well

[fiery flower]

Yeah

[fringe musk]

Almost like %maxhp dmg causes problems

gg

[steady wave]

so a lot more skewed outcomes for winners/losers out of the effects

[vague rock]

I think the double dmg power is a problem, BUT generally I think the biggest item is overtuned items. Evolutiosn of equipment is fun and I like the feature and hope it can stay, They just need to be tuned down.

[unique zephyr]

They're correlated in the sense that one effects the other but it's fundamentally tuning.

That can always be tweaked.

It's the general design of item special effects having damage will always lead to "where best damage? Take best damage."

[honest mountain]

oh

[pine solstice]

It would theoretically be easier to control TTK if all items gave the same amount of AP for their type.

[hollow gulch]

Damn. Tough poll

[fringe musk]

hmm

[honest mountain]

i tried to do the poll and didnt work, im just bad

[stone gulch]

Polls are a much nice touch

[fringe musk]

I wonder what everyone will vote

[opaque imp]

i think the double damage thing was an item, but probably just a funny test for short playtest. i cant imagine it sticking around

[frank jacinth]

I miss those too, I speak for a lot of us when I say I'll end stream for post-playtest discussions especially in our current state~

[clever raft]

Haha, yep.

[smoky minnow]

Someone ping me when we talk about powers pls ❤️

[steady wave]

@smoky minnow wait we can pin msgs

the power...

[unique zephyr]

That poll misses the point tbh. TTK is just a proverbial coefficient. It's item design specifically.

[smoky minnow]

Yur

[river plaza]

ability upgrade play a part aswell

but items are the main issue

[clever raft]

Yesss. I'm honored.

[hollow gulch]

I'm not going to vote cause I think it's too hard to pick

[steady wave]

i hope they remove arena

[clever raft]

Very reasonable.

[lavish dove]

I just love talking about supervive. ill talk about it all day if im let.

[unique zephyr]

The common denominator is that item special effects shouldn't be damage related because it inevitably results in one just always being the best choice.

[fringe musk]

I remember when safelocked called me out as an eu person and I was like "wait they know who i am"

goated times

[hollow gulch]

Amen to removing arena

[vague rock]

It was a power, at least for what I was told and it made you deal 2x dmg and take 2x dmg, and yes I hope it goes away forever lmao

[inner briar]

Item equipment is a good concept, but adding the damage just gets rid of all the uniqueness that the equipment aims to bring. Items like most slows, or more Movementspeed did sound like they were fun, but there is no reason to take them if you can just kill quickly. Equipment should jsut give passive regarding CDs, cc, and movement

[steady wave]

i hope they remove gunner too

[fringe musk]

Was an equipment

[hollow gulch]

I've been praying for Hudson to be deleted

[fiery flower]

I joined those whenever I see people there they were always a blast, especially sharing clips

[wintry sluice]

I agree with this I think its all 3

[pine solstice]

I'll say it again: If AP was more consistent (i.e. no bonus AP or damage from item passives), then it would theoretically be easier to reign TTK in to a specific degree through balancing. But with items how they are, TTK is either too slow or too fast

[lavish dove]

This and also, items are already stat sticks, we dont need evolutions to just do more of it.

[ionic elm]

Equipment kinda just exacerbates any problems with the base kits tbh

[valid torrent]

i really dislike this stat rn lol

[hushed salmon]

curious...

[vague rock]

Was it the new feytech chainsaw? or soemthing

[river plaza]

@clever raft https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1117571328652869643/1288636848909844560/vlc-record-2024-09-26-01h02m04s-2024-09-25_00-01-05.mkv-.mp4?ex=66f5e816&is=66f49696&hm=c35314c2c91254dc7f088eae8a15f7d3e8ea400e5ad73bc0d980d282a549c66d&

this is an example

[fringe musk]

Yeah it had the same texture

[vague rock]

Oh I see

[tranquil oar]

LMFAO

[river plaza]

like thats just a straight 1 shot

no red item

[honest mountain]

i swear shrike is bad

[stone gulch]

Shiv overextended guys, it happens 🤓

[river plaza]

not vunerlable

[unique zephyr]

Special effects should be cool utility quirks and what not. Everything that isn't damage related but can still give you a skill expressive advtange in some scenario.

[rare zenith]

not even full build yet

[lavish dove]

I think that double edged sword item needs to be cut... idk

[orchid hedge]

BRO CHIPSA WHY ARE YOU DOING MY BOY KISSY DIRTY LIKE THAT HAHAHAHA

[river plaza]

hahaha

[fringe musk]

WHAT

DID I JUST SEE

[vernal vortex]

i wouldnt say the post test chats would ruin streams i think it would improve and put the game in a good light having devs actively talk to people

[river plaza]

hahahaha

[orchid hedge]

Press F for my Shiv player

[river plaza]

this is what i mean tho

stacked BGH and stacked mindblade

it complelety breaks the game

things that shouldnt 1 shot now 1 shot

[bright lance]

Context is she has no armor and I marked her with level 3 Bird Scout

[river plaza]

and then you have to full rebalance

the goat is here

🐐

[clever raft]

Reading...

[stone gulch]

Tbf with items, did yall feel any significant change when upgrading an item from like blue ->purple and stuff like that after green->blue? I know on techblade it literally gave 1% cdr and +10AP

[fringe musk]

does bgh stack on biome bosses?

[river plaza]

yea

[lavish dove]

I like overdrive, i also like the idea of a item that gives you a speed buff after drinking vive, it would be a fun combo! drinking a hypervive gives you a ton of overshield and speed. you could play characters like void with more mobile teams easier... idk i thought this idea is cookage

[river plaza]

3stacks per biome

9 per soul

[vocal canopy]

Can u read this

[fringe musk]

What is max

stacks

[steady wave]

i don't really enjoy having dev chats streamed

[river plaza]

15 i think

15 is when it procs

im assuming his BGH is stacked here

otherwise GG

[fringe musk]

has to be

he has nearly 400 ap

[steady wave]

post test chats are a safe space to talk about the game. i don't really want it broadcast

[drifting sun]

Yeah the double edge item is a bit strong too

[river plaza]

360AP is what you get with stacked mindblade and normal items

[lavish dove]

just shouldnt be in the game

[fringe musk]

Did any of u guys get the other faytech item

[unique zephyr]

Give me stealth effects, give me faster glider, faster movement, faster vault cracks, faster revive channels, all these are basic examples of good item upgrade effects

[fringe musk]

"Endless reaper"

[fickle knoll]

I managed to get to 400 once with double mana rune.

[fringe musk]

Where it reset ur cds

[drifting sun]

Well I did get two shot by a mob, so it is a double edge….

[fringe musk]

on knock

[lavish dove]

what it do

[stone gulch]

Tbf with items, did yall feel any significant change when upgrading an item from like blue ->purple and stuff like that after green->blue? I know on techblade it literally gave 1% cdr and +10AP

[crisp fossil]

I liked TTK yesterday, it felt really good. It's just Joule and Stalker who are bullshit, mainly stalker 1 shotting me. It's absolutely ridiculous lol joule has too many dashes

[fringe musk]

Reset ur cds on knock

[pine solstice]

When Items give AP or Damage, they become required to optimize. It not only messes with TTK, but it also messes with one of the goals for the evolving item system (Build flexibility), as well as messing with the skill expression in situational itemization/creative buildcrafting, it cuts away from some of the core concepts of the game too: that every character is viable. If a character can't abuse the best stat sticks, then they aren't nearly as viable.

[fringe musk]

except ult

[lavish dove]

I... dont like the idea of a shiv dashing at me and 1 shotting me. the downside isnt enough imo

its just a frusterating item, maybe give their hp bar a effect when they have it

[pine solstice]

nah, just ban it. Respectfully, just ban it.

[lavish dove]

^

[rare zenith]

^

[river plaza]

also i'd like to say alot of people complain about greed, but i think greed is one of the coolest items in the game and i dont think its OP at all. It only felt OP because of the combo with mindblade

[lavish dove]

make it so we can get it in arena maybe lmao

[river plaza]

i hope you dont gut this item too much

[lavish dove]

or put it in practice tool for fun

[pine solstice]

If Greed's reward wasn't stats, I would agree. It is a cool quest to fill

[fickle knoll]

Yup

[orchid hedge]

Agreed

[smoky minnow]

if practice tool could also have everything.. that would be cool... :(

[river plaza]

i think its one of the few items i think giving stats is fine

[pine solstice]

But stats isn't the right reward: It will either be OP or useless.

[river plaza]

aslong as the stats dont go above having 2 damage items

[dusk rune]

💯 its just op cause numbers

[pine solstice]

They could be really creative with it.

[fringe musk]

I mean rn

I think its in a good state

[river plaza]

investing 15k into 1 players item means it should have better numbers

[vernal vortex]

i think if everyone is aware of it its fine

[river plaza]

it just shouldnt give AP from the mana compentent with mindblade

but again this comes back to mindblade being OP

[steady wave]

i can be aware of it and not like it

or want to participate

[rare zenith]

I want to see more quests like that crack vaults, visit different basecamps, drink 10 supervive ect ect

[fringe musk]

I agree

[river plaza]

and if you ever played mindblade + masamune last patch you know what i mean

[fringe musk]

I think if dev chats happen

they shouldnt be shared to everyone

type shit

[river plaza]

if you ever got that combo you turned into jesus christ with a mecha suit

[stone gulch]

Cool quests like that is def fire

[vernal vortex]

could have different chats, one thats not broadcast and one that is if its possible

[fringe musk]

I was thanos with a turbo fister punch

it was actually crazy

[river plaza]

i remember fighitng a brall with that combo

was really playable

[lavish dove]

I like this

[dusk rune]

why not?

[fringe musk]

I mean they shouldnt be streamed at least

[lavish dove]

I wished power user WORKED this playtest, it looked fun.

[dusk rune]

why not?

[lavish dove]

I wanted my 50s nuke cooldown!

[fringe musk]

Just in the sense that people shouldnt have to hold themselves back because of a stream and not state their real opinions

type shit

[dusk rune]

thats a people issue not a stream issue no?

[clever raft]

Which Vamp item were you referring to?

[river plaza]

swiftblade

[lavish dove]

switft

[crisp fossil]

People saying greed wasn't op don't understand how strong it was and how easy it was to upgrade

[hushed salmon]

I really don't think items are the problem. this is from like 2 months ago

[river plaza]

the damage after auto effect was really op on certain hunters

[river plaza]

it wasnt OP it was mindblade making it OP

[lavish dove]

Soul drain leaked 👀 good change to the item

[river plaza]

if you play greed without mindblade the item is bang average

[hushed salmon]

no armor kp

[smoky minnow]

thats a stream issue for sure

well

i guess its a stream issue because people are terrible lol

[vocal canopy]

Poor overdrive

[smoky minnow]

so maybe ur right

[steady wave]

i think it's a stream issue

[wet robin]

I mean you can't expect people to talk before 100+ people. And those who might do it give a different opinion because there are people watching and they want to appeal to them

[river plaza]

also soul drain is different than when we played right?

[fringe musk]

Yeah exactly

[river plaza]

200 HP per second when stomping seems really good?

[ionic elm]

yes. it appears to have replaced Executioner, which simply "healed while executing" and executing gave 1 extra power shard.

[river plaza]

yea its the same concept but just better right

[soft fiber]

Finally a second option on the vamp lol

[ionic elm]

Soul Drain does not give an extra power shard on execution finish, so not quite.

[steady wave]

EXECUTIONER WAS COOL THOUGH

farm up your friends

[lavish dove]

kinda snowbally though

[river plaza]

i didnt realise it did that

oh yea

i did

im dumb

[steady wave]

oh yeah none of the items were any good

but this was at least one of the fun ones

[ionic elm]

Agreed. I took it on Void with the express goal of just swapping wisps out and executing them mid-fight to just farm power shards. Was actually worthwhile despite being an omnivamp item on Void.

[pine solstice]

Executioner is not okay. Snowballing already exists through farming people for shards and gettings stats from the item levels, but doubling down on that is bad, just bad.

[lavish dove]

Just kill swiftblade and add focus back plz

[smoky minnow]

chipsa admitted to being dumb guys screenshot quick

[river plaza]

gg

[steady wave]

to be clear - everything i liked the most is still unacceptable at best imo. i don't think any items pull their weight in the system

[fickle knoll]

350 ap in the clip. The items combo gives like 360 ap now

[river plaza]

disagree, having an item that benifits snowballing is good

same as an item like greed that rewards playing like tom kick is also good

[hushed salmon]

and? I did like 100 less damage to a kp. dude gets 1 shot all the same.

[lavish dove]

Greed should be axed and never come back.

[dusk rune]

snowballing should be allowed shouldn't be a killed playstyle

[smoky minnow]

@hexed parrot any words on this

[fickle knoll]

Shrike op

[river plaza]

tom kick is my goat

[steady wave]

tom kick is my goat

[rare zenith]

Swift blade is an item I think hits the mark of having meaningful utility. While focus should come back not at the cost of swiftblade

[smoky minnow]

tom kick is my goat

[rare zenith]

tom kick is my goat

[lavish dove]

I would be fine with swift blade if the extra 80 damage was cut.

[fringe musk]

my goat chipsa

[severe surge]

tom kick is my goat

[steady wave]

tomothy kick, the goat of the people. let's stop it there

[fringe musk]

call out the cheeseburgers

wp

[hexed parrot]

I already know I live rent free in his head

[severe surge]

ok my last post in discussion fr fr

[lavish dove]

tom kick is my goat

[smoky minnow]

bro's been lurking so hard

but the love for tom kick is too big

[clever raft]

I might have missed which ones you thought felt off. Which ones were those for you?

[river plaza]

ur next to Ryan Lemur in my head

[sudden kindle]

tom kick is my goat

[fringe musk]

where is hotbiscuit

[hushed salmon]

Main problem is that the item outcomes are the same. IMO most of it is just in people's heads. I think it's 3 fold. People used to tank patch so less HP. People used to old damage numbers so more damage now. and even slightly higher damage on some characters especially through the multi hit 10+ ap item.

[clever raft]

Man, I wish I had the receipt for this. Let me know if you find a video.

[sudden kindle]

Just saying I dont see this apparent elephant in the room lol. Games improved a lot in recent tests and the new item system is the best addition in the time I've played from when EU tests started. So much more depth and variety

[river plaza]

same as the clip i linked i assume

if u have no armour vs stacked shrike she can 1 shot you

[sudden kindle]

and most recent changes are starting to improve on some of the balance of more redundent blue items

[clever raft]

Oh, I must have missed it. Scrolling..

[ionic elm]

#1288552952478568508 message

[river plaza]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1117571328652869643/1288636848909844560/vlc-record-2024-09-26-01h02m04s-2024-09-25_00-01-05.mkv-.mp4?ex=66f5e816&is=66f49696&hm=c35314c2c91254dc7f088eae8a15f7d3e8ea400e5ad73bc0d980d282a549c66d&

[clever raft]

Bless.

[rare zenith]

on the surface you have options but if your optimizing you have 1 build thats why we want it changed

[steep dagger]

kp dropped me to 10%hp with slam and 1 auto as flex at lvl 2. felt bad

[tranquil oar]

upon looking back i beleive he had double dmg item

[fringe musk]

I look at this

and I try to rationalize it

in my head

and it just doesnt compute

[river plaza]

he has the spanish buff

[hushed salmon]

mythi. she has always done this

[river plaza]

she has never done this

[smoky minnow]

Tom keeps killing me

[river plaza]

ever

[fringe musk]

Not with 1 shot

from full hp

[tranquil oar]

yeah here it is @clever raft now that I look at it I'm 90% she had double dmg item so its mainly an item issue!

https://www.twitch.tv/stevenator546/clip/GracefulBadBaconPartyTime-PoHGR5E8Pn7mIKan

[river plaza]

never a true 100-0

[smoky minnow]

no she usually needs 2

[fringe musk]

Legit she clicked LMB once

[smoky minnow]

yur

[fringe musk]

She shot twice in this clip tho

I know she did

[smoky minnow]

that's not 100 to 0 though

[fringe musk]

In the hotbiscuit clip

its 1 shot

One singular shot

[sudden kindle]

still a lot of room for improvement but I dont think 1 optimal build would be true for all characters. Some have very varied item choices which could argueably be best

[clever raft]

Gotcha - yeah, this was the original clip I was looking for. Perfect.

[river plaza]

she has double damage item

cuz you arent marked

cuz RMb doesnt apply mark

[hushed salmon]

It's not items if you're complaining that she shot once. She was marked because of the new passive thing.

I am doing 1400 damage, which is literally like 100 off 1 shotting most squishies

I don't think any of you realized how much damage these characters have always done.

[lavish dove]

This item needs to be cut

[fringe musk]

I mean in the end tho that is shrike thing

[river plaza]

yea but 100 damage off vs killing is a HUGE difference

[hushed salmon]

it really isnt

[stone gulch]

All these clips help with, if nothing else, getting back to team and allow them to see stuff like this consistently happening

[river plaza]

like i cant explain how big of a difference that is

[fringe musk]

In the past rj hasnt one shot off a punch

[river plaza]

for shrike

if they are 1 hp

or 40% hp

its the same

its a massive difference

[tender holly]

At the end of the day, I’m sure single optimal builds will be a thing for every hunter, but going away from that optimal build right now is practically throwing the game.

[river plaza]

between 100hp and full

dead*

[stone gulch]

^

[hushed salmon]

Shrikes maximum HP in that clip. current patch level is 1463. in the old clip I did 1398 at level 6. do you believ I woudn't have 1 shot as squishy at my same level

I also completely disagree that in a 4v4 game with tons of poke, 100 damage is not that much of a difference

[river plaza]

ur damage doesnt increase with level tho right?

or am i tripping?

i swear it doesnt

[hushed salmon]

my hp does... at level 6 my hp would be lower.

[stone gulch]

Most the time in games if something can like GENUINELY 1 shot, it wont feel good for enemy player. I think of stuff like Veigar from league wehre they changed his ultimate for this exact reason. You HAVE to land at least 2 things for it unless you just are INSANELY ABNORMALLY fed

[river plaza]

i dont understand tho

the shiv in the clip is level 9

but regardless

the difference between 1hp and dead

is the biggest difference in HP in the game by far

if freeze is 1hp she can ult

oath can shield

u can rewind

etc etc

[hushed salmon]

I'm saying. in the old patch. in the clip I posted. I would 1 shot someone too if they had a zeph literally heal them to full mid fight.

[vague rock]

My biggest issue with them is some of the mechanics for some of them.
Mind blade -> Farm mobs for a lot more dmg (stat stick)
Greed -> Just get alchemist boots or go to cold fang and you have infinite gold and more stats (stat stick)
Grace -> Why would I take a movespeed at Full HP rather than a movespeed all the time for killing multiple bosses? (useless buff on grace)
Triple combo -> Feels like its too op for some characters that rely on that triple combo anyways (KP and Stalker mainly) and some characers it legit cannot work on at all like Celeste would have to hit her ult and then a slow aoe then autos because her wall can't help proc it or her shift
Gigantiscism -> Feels like you pretty much always get this as pure tank because it just basically makes them tanky and still be able to do dmg so why woudl they ever go hybrid and loose the hp for the same amount of dmg?
Alchemist boots -> along with what I said earlier, I think infinite gold is just not a good idea.
Climbing Boots -> I do not like giving hunters passives onto items to make everyone do it (makes myth feel worse)
Then another problem with some of the items is they are too specific to some heros (which might not be the worst thing) but like Interweiver on shrike feels useless to me because hitting 1 lmb for a .5 second CDR when its already hard enough to hit the shots your abilities might be up by then anyways.

[river plaza]

idk i've played with biscuit for literally 1.5 years

ive never seen him 1 shot someone till this patch

and it happened in 1h

[hushed salmon]

probably because in order to get passive, he needs to hit 2x. and in it's been very rare outside of last patch for zeph to top people up every fight

[sudden kindle]

depends, Elluna for example has a huge amount of item preference involved since there is a lot of merit for both tank items to improve wisp play or just double blade for better heals/damage. For characters that are simply there to deal damage then the item choice tends to become a lot more one dimensional

[hushed salmon]

the damage is, in reality, VERY similar to how it's always been

[river plaza]

its similar

but about 10% higher

but that 10% is a big deal for certain chars

wiht joule its the difference between 1 shotting and leaving on 200hp

same with bishop

thats why it feels so bad

ur getting OS by things you wouldnt otherwise

[hushed salmon]

I think this has always been an issue. in terms of being deleted

[steady wave]

yeah i think outliers that pushed past the margin were less common

[river plaza]

i mean i agree TTK felt too fast last full patch

[steady wave]

the breakpoint for this is really attainable now

[river plaza]

but this patch cranked it up to 10

[river plaza]

yea this is a good way to put it

[steady wave]

there was always a border of like "my char can just ruin the game for whoever i touch now"

[tender holly]

I know the goal TC has with these items is to allow for versatility in play style for all hunters, and that simply isn’t happening. The stat-sticking is far superior for many hunters.

[river plaza]

playing joule yesterday felt super unfun for my oppojentes

[steady wave]

it is now reproducible every game 100% time on everyone in the lobby

[river plaza]

i land an E from anywhere an i know i have a 100% chance to kill them

[steady wave]

yeah storm yesterday was just like

[stone gulch]

Elluna is very unqiue in sense you can do stuff like damage elluna, both tank items, heal etc right but even then I feel more times then not there is a "meta". And having a meta will happen no matter waht the status is and I will say in the 6 hour play test we had with new items, I couldn't find a groove for zeph I really liked outside of Grace+Bubble Blade. But Protectors are a whole other ball game though and it seems a lot of DPS/Tank are going Mindblade.

I think items where in general you can go diff playstyles isn't there across the board

[river plaza]

rather than knowing i have to hit them a few times after for them to die

[steady wave]

every combo you land

is like -1 person for the player base

[river plaza]

yea

once ur 6 its just

with mindblade stacked

its GG

[hushed salmon]

this happens like every other patch on different characters. This patch just felt that way because bishop,joule,shrike are all buffed. and I acknowledge a 10% damage increase is also on top of their kit buffs

[river plaza]

joule wasnt buffed tho right?

[tender holly]

Your joule was terrifying btw

[hushed salmon]

her attack speed is def higher now. I think...

[river plaza]

oh yea ur right

but the 1shot combo is the same

i guess she is psuedo buffed cuz mindblade works on her now

[steady wave]

yeah it's also more reliable rn

bc you hitslow more

[hushed salmon]

yeah but as you said, an extra 100 damage every like .3 seconds swings things. on top of the 10% damage buff

[river plaza]

yea agreed

[hushed salmon]

it's more than just items. is my biggest thought

[river plaza]

i can see that

but the items are the biggest reason why it feels so bad imo

[sudden kindle]

that just comes to a problem with item designs in particular if certain stat sticks are far above the rest. The system itself is great, just needs refining and some of the new replacements in this patch have been a step in the right direction

[river plaza]

some level 3 upgrades are super problematic

[steady wave]

i could not disagree more w/ anything about the item system but i think some things are kinda fun (i think i can think of like 30 things i dislike and maybe 2 i am okay with)

[stone gulch]

HARD agree with this, 100000%

But there are still steps that need to be done

[sudden kindle]

there is a world where the choices are close enough for there to be meaningful decision making for all characters, hopefully it can get to that point

[lavish dove]

^

[hushed salmon]

I'd say it's like 50-50 in my mind rn. but yeah I agree.

[tender holly]

Oh yea I love the evolution system, it’s just that the evolution options aren’t fitting the fantasy that TC wants them to.

[steady wave]

i'm not sure if this is real. the optimization problem is not that difficult to solve in a live service game

[river plaza]

some hunters have pretty balanced level 3 upgrades and item upgrades imo

but ur right its very hard to do

[lavish dove]

KPs upgrades feel good rn.

[stone gulch]

really liked waht they did to KP upgrades

[clever raft]

Appreciate the clip. Just listing a couple sources here - assuming Apotheosis, Ability 3 Shrike Mark.

[fringe musk]

BGH aswell

[hollow gulch]

I think there are some problematic items and some problematic hunters and a LOT of overlap

[tender holly]

Celeste upgrades are so boring ;-; just CDR and damage basically

[lavish dove]

they have damage soul too. unsure if it matters though since its a DOT

[river plaza]

yea

and i think? stacked big game hunter

biscuit is saying itsgrace

[bright lance]

that's grace

[river plaza]

so

just mindblade upgrade

[bright lance]

on another note

[river plaza]

and shiv has no armour

[lavish dove]

the shiv could have had the double dmg item

[river plaza]

she didnt

she had full orange

no red items

[bright lance]

nerf mana cloak massively

[clever raft]

I thought it was Grace in that video too.

[river plaza]

real

[river plaza]

yea im just a blind idiot gg

[clever raft]

Haha, all good.

[river plaza]

mana cloak should just work like etheral smoke

and its fine

idk why it has super invis when it has no cooldown

[honest mountain]

specially paired with mindblade

u can stay invis forever

[river plaza]

yea

it breaks the game on heroes like KP

[bright lance]

no cooldown, almost infinite duration, can't be revealed out of it and you pressure a whole team with a perma ? on top

[honest mountain]

i ran wings and cloak most of the test on bishop, way too strong

u can fly while invis too

[river plaza]

you know if biscuit is typing about something its a problem

thats all im saying

[rare zenith]

i saw void walk up and invisibly black hole with stealth cloak at least 3-4 times in one game. It couldnt have been fun for the enemy team.

[fickle knoll]

Void jumpscare⁴

[dusk rune]

yuck, taking the whole hp bar with 1 shot how greedy

[tender holly]

Save some for the rest of us chip 😭

[river plaza]

wasnt me killing it was biscuit

[tender holly]

[smoky minnow]

Stop hyping Chipsa he gets carried by hot biscuit

[river plaza]

fake news

[smoky minnow]

@bright lance

[bright lance]

agree

[fringe musk]

gg imagine getting carried by spanish man

[lavish dove]

Kk i have been going for 7 hours now, ima take a break. someone ping me when the next topic starts. if that doesnt happen thats okay

[smoky minnow]

I just need a ping for powers lol

[river plaza]

@smoky minnow

[smoky minnow]

Ur so funny

I'm rolling

[clever raft]

Take a break!

Maybe I should have enforced breaks...

[stone gulch]

LOL

[vague rock]

1 Hour break time starts now XD

[smoky minnow]

Nope we need to talk about powers (well ok maybe Jess can like take a breather....)

[fringe musk]

While the chat is slowing down a little bit I wanna say real quick

[hexed parrot]

Can we take an 8 hour break so I can sleep?

[clever raft]

Hahah, I'm good to go for another 30!

[fringe musk]

I think currently UAV's are way too strong

[smoky minnow]

I hope u all know I'm joking about no breaks 💀

[clever raft]

Lol

[vague rock]

I am very sad about some powers loosing specific tech, 2 way tp felt so fun to me but now that some stuff (revives and heart) is rooted, I no longer like the item

[fringe musk]

I think they give way too much info for what they are and how easily accessible they are

[smoky minnow]

Jess what's the developer opinion on powers right now?

[smoky minnow]

Bro I said powers

[clever raft]

Well, to close out TTK...I think there's I might want to ask here, but I think at least I have a good sense of the Equipment pain points and some of the Hunter ones.

I'll bring the topic back up in a bit, but thanks for the callouts and especially receipts.

[smoky minnow]

[rare zenith]

[sudden kindle]

[smoky minnow]

Another W for safelocked

[river plaza]

joule buffs when?

[smoky minnow]

Quiet you

[vernal vortex]

never

[vague rock]

[stone gulch]

If there is one last thing to leave on equipment for that I wanted to state, it just is adding more passives that slightly change how someone plays. Like the executioner item encourages focusing on doing stuff like that, Bloodscent which encourages chasing, I find items like that that make slight adjustments to your playstyle compared to add stats=win a lot more enjoyable : D

[sudden kindle]

[smoky minnow]

Nothing Chipsa tells you about joule is something you should listen to

[wet robin]

Honestly with the new sonar crouch mechanic they were kinda not needed. I also don‘t like the new icon on the map. If I would know where they are I would find them quickly

[fickle knoll]

Do not trust him. He is a man who sits a top of a throne of lies

[fringe musk]

Sonar is also bad

The game has info overload right now

You shouldnt be able to get as much info as you are able to in this game right now

Off 2 uavs midway through the game

[wet robin]

Yea basically eliminates all stealth gameplay

[river plaza]

UAV is fine i think

[smoky minnow]

Sonar is counterintuitive in that it ruins ur short range ads :<

@lavish dove

[river plaza]

otherwise the game becomes a Tom kick-fest

[fringe musk]

I think it shouldnt scan entire map

[river plaza]

and no one wants that

[fringe musk]

Also shouldnt scan vaults imo

[smoky minnow]

Tom kick is my goat

[pine solstice]

Sonar is terrible. I think macro play is one of the deepest parts of the game, dumbing it down is just...

[fickle knoll]

Vaults a gree on

[vague rock]

I put in my feedback fourm that I think UAV beacons are useless now and and Kaiju is less usefull because you can just tell where a team is, but not where they are at, thats why kaiju eye is still a bit ok to me

I think ADS sonar needs to leave tho lmao

[river plaza]

yea i can get behind this

but scanning hte whole map with UAV is fine

[fickle knoll]

My 6 hours sleep dept are cagchinh up. My spelling is one

[river plaza]

becasue you know when someone is on the UAV

[fringe musk]

Um I really dont think so

[river plaza]

and you know at what UAV it is

[stone gulch]

OH also that stats past blue upgrade felt not very impactful. 1% CDR and +10AP on tech blade upgrades for ex I don't think incentivized anyone to trying to upgrade their items. They just felt like they were thrown on their

[lavish dove]

In order to contribute to sonar ima copy and paste this.

IMO, the reason the wall sonar was bad is because when holding space in coordinated play. the optimal way to use sonar is to have 2 people looking around to figure out where people are, and 2 people legit doing nothing sonaring a choke, this way you know if anyone is ever getting behind and past you, being one of the 2 that is doing nothing besides holding crouch because if you do anything else its soft inting is simply not fun.

Okay im gonna go on my break again

[river plaza]

it alllows you to hunt people

[fringe musk]

I mean im just thinking about apex how they recently changed their version of UAV's to scan in a circle around it instead of the whole map

because being able to see everyone

[smoky minnow]

Maybe I'll get to harass Jess about powers another day... I'll bring Steve with me too....

[fringe musk]

is just too much info to have

[wet robin]

What’s the exact reason for it ? I kinda like it since you can map like route of useful vaults to your next objective

[river plaza]

yea but info is 10x more valuable in apex

than supervive

cuz its FPS

[fringe musk]

Yeah for sure especially considering zones are predetermined in that game

[fringe musk]

For the exact reason you just said, you shouldnt be able to know which vaults are worth ur time because u scanned 1 uav in the game

[fickle knoll]

What if uav had smaller radius but was more accurate?

[river plaza]

also another minor thing idk if people agree with

but i find it super hard to tell how many teams dropped with you on this patch

[fringe musk]

Yeah I think this would be good

[fickle knoll]

Ye

[river plaza]

becasue all the circles are red its hard to tell if its like 2 teams or 3 teams with people splitting off

[fringe musk]

Yeah I found it hard to tell how many people were in the drop pod

Because they can stay with like the drop lead

[river plaza]

its super frustrating when u think theres only 1 team with you and then theres actually 4

[fringe musk]

and they all pop out the same pod

[river plaza]

yea exactly

[fringe musk]

or they all split

[sudden kindle]

I think global player detection is fine but yeah seeing all vaults is a bit much tbf

[river plaza]

they need to make seperate icons for invidual pods and team pods

[clever raft]

Yep! Makes sense. There are players who enjoy how appreciable stats are. But the takeaway here of - hey, the stat passives overwhelm the more wrinkly playstyle choices makes sense.

[honest mountain]

one thing they changed in apex, it only scouts X amount of meters around where the UAV is placed, instead of the entire map like it used to

that was a good change

[river plaza]

this might be off topic

but safelocked

whats mikes name on discord

the guy who did the old VA

i need to know

[fickle knoll]

Animal icons maybe

[river plaza]

and does he have a fiver page

[pine solstice]

This is all I've wanted to get across for my feedback from the last patch. I'm glad it has been heard. Thank you.

I don't mean to undercut the other points still on the docket, but I really appreciate you listening to our points about the items.

[lavish dove]

if someone can ping me if / when we talk about the new drop ship varations ty! if not idm either way <3

[clever raft]

@silk storm !

[river plaza]

thank you so much

[stone gulch]

Even with the new executioner item idk how I feel about it because all it does is "stand on x, get hp added to your health (which is a stat)" but at least it forces you to play the game diff compared to before where you may just let the wisp go away to chase someone in a fight or not even executing due to the risk of it. So steps in right direction regardless : D

[clever raft]

Alright, let's talk Powers and then I gotta go.

[stone gulch]

Not to mention taking damage while standing on a enemy wisp may force someone off, it adds these factors to a game taht I find so fascinating to try and figure out or learn when to take the risk or not

[clever raft]

I'll be back tomorrow though. 🙂

[stone gulch]

@smoky minnow

[fringe musk]

finally my topic

gg

[tender holly]

@smoky minnow

[fringe musk]

i get to talk

gg

[honest mountain]

wings and abyss speciallist gotta change

[vocal canopy]

brushboar back pls?

[smoky minnow]

WHA

IM HERE

@tranquil oar

[river plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/let-me-talk-footballer-mad-talking-rage-gif-17725212

[ionic elm]

The boars must take an L

[fringe musk]

https://tenor.com/view/yapping-yap-domain-expansion-gif-11735723647164857119

[bright lance]

remove or heavily nerf mana cloak

[vocal canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-nuh-uh-meow-sniff-incorrect-gif-11442321997337963097

[smoky minnow]

Powers need to be more dynamic

I think powers have been more static recently, and I don't know why. Amazing powers like rescue grenade, brush boar, and tree spy (and throwing axe i gotchu mythi) have been removed - but we still have stuff like rally, touch of mana, and anything that just doesn't contribute to creativity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgNQxSXqiFc

This is a good video

[fickle knoll]

I miss my owls

[smoky minnow]

For what the potential of dynamic powers looks like

And I want more like that

[fringe musk]

@stoic forum

[smoky minnow]

Also a lot of the powers are simply not graded correctly

[vocal canopy]

I want BrushBoar ................

[smoky minnow]

Like why is rally blue

Why is Abyss specialist blue

[river plaza]

this guy

Ryan

[smoky minnow]

rally is awful and abyss specialist is broken

[river plaza]

i heard his name echos in the street

[smoky minnow]

chipsa are you ok you seem to suffer from an odd amount of tom kick and ryan lemur ptsd

[honest mountain]

bring back the fun powers, throwing axe, tree spy, remote laser, rescue grenade.
nerf abyss speciallist and hover wings

[river plaza]

they are just my goats

[smoky minnow]

odd

[fickle knoll]

Wacky powers are so fun. I really loved throwing out owls. Make it so throwing the owl on someone makes every owl in the area attack them. The owls rise up

[smoky minnow]

btw

this entire stevenator post

#1282837455883603969 message

I agree with basically everything

[vocal canopy]

did you read it?

[smoky minnow]

Yes

I read all of it

[lavish dove]

I commented on this earlier in this thread.

Hover wings is good because its cool on Celeste
Grappling hook on void is really cool.
Delicate mana battery + stealth cloak is cool.
two way TP no longer tping rez beacons is a massive L but otherwise the power is pog as fuck.
Money trees + bishop, pog.
Blink + kp slam, pog.

Versatile powers that combo with other characters, items, or powers are the best and should be looked at as the gold standard

[smoky minnow]

I usually dont

But steve was very smart about his opinions so

[vocal canopy]

Insanity must be So correct then ....... I agree

[tranquil oar]

I think one unfortunate consequence of shrinking the power pool to where it is right now is that you're never forced to be creative and really lean into the sandbox-y nature of the game. The combination of there not being many powers in the first place, certain powers being guarenteed in certain vaults (e.g Grappling Hook in Shards of Fate), and being able to see which vaults are worth it using UAV creates a situation where you're able to force the same powers every single game going into the midgame.

With how the game has been in the past few playtests, I've rarely if ever felt forced to used a "bad" or subpar power in a creative way in order to find an advantage. Powers like Group TP are my absolute favorites because they lean more into the type of creativity that powers can create as opposed to being like Summoner Spells or additional Stat Sticks (though both can exist of course).

Basically, I think there's a wealth of powers available to the point where you can get whatever you want every single game, and there's never enough scarcity to force that creativity. So most players just don't end up meaningfully interacting with the system.

[smoky minnow]

The best parts about this game are nidhogg getting creative with grappling hook to do funny void things, lemur going celeste bungee ult, idk about puppy abyss gliding forever with hover wings but thas was pretty funny

nidhogg had a game where he had like 200 res beacons

that was peak

he had an island of res beacons

like i want more of that

[fringe musk]

Im gonna wait for the question

[fickle knoll]

So you are saying add tree spy back

[fringe musk]

before I write my essay

[smoky minnow]

( ik that's not a powers thing its just a thing)

[fringe musk]

type shit

[smoky minnow]

mythi writes???

[clever raft]

Hahah, thanks Mythi.

[vocal canopy]

BrushBoars ...

[fringe musk]

https://tenor.com/view/nauts-scrims-awesomenauts-gif-24642261

[fickle knoll]

Like imagine how funny spawning a field of trees with an army of owls. Could roleplay as wizard from wizars beer ad with his army of little owls

[crimson quiver]

Me writing a script about powers as we discuss which powers are about to get removed

[rare zenith]

delicate mana battery and stealth cloak is an unfun way to guarantee otherwise harder to hit CC abilities land and of course with CC high probability of a kill. While on some characters it adds really good depth on others I think its used to turn a fight into a less skill based contest instead pushing for jumping someone unaware.

[crimson quiver]

[fickle knoll]

Vivebrew made be me and my army of little owls

[sudden kindle]

get me in

[sand meadow]

Brushboar to me is the #1 kind of power this game wants and it's really sad to me that it got removed.

It's competitively strong, it's silly and dumb(you summon a boar, it makes a funny noise and stuns someone), it makes you interact with the map locations and it synergizes with other powers to make other ones worth picking up.

I would pick up ghillie suit so I could find brush boars later on. Now I never pick up that power

[smoky minnow]

Also vaults can be heavily unbalanced way too many times and i know that's part of hte game but i think there needs to be a controlled randomness

[crimson quiver]

Alr bring back brush boar. I am putting it in the script

[fickle knoll]

Agreed. Boars and owls in every vault

[crimson quiver]

✅

[vocal canopy]

Yes ...

[wintry sluice]

I fully understand with powers that the idea is "We'll remove more complicated powers for now, and keep the pool of powers smaller, more learnable, and more obvious for newer players"
I remember when I first dug into BR, I felt like 3/4 of the powers had no use, I didn't get it - but this I think was almost the opposite of a problem.
Each time I played against someone, and I saw how they hit a fat brush boar and win a fight off it, I'm like "holy hell I thought this power sucked but this guy went crazy with it"
I start thinking green thumb is bad, up until I pick up berry eater and realise how insane this combination is
Scuba gear felt pointless until I got wavemaker
Tree powers felt bad, until I went "hmm other powers are better than I thought, let me give these a try" and then I find that tree prison and money tree grenade are super fun
Powers feeling kinda bad at first, but having a lot of very impactful discovery was always part of the magic of this game, and the weirder the interaction the better! I think its really cool how crazy and silly and game-winning powers have been, with really only red powers patch going too far in that regard IMO (But others even still enjoyed red powers patch)
They've been a perfect example of this game being a silly sandbox party game, but somehow still finding competitive elements within that, and it was great
Over time though, tree prison gets gutted, wavemaker becomes sand wall & gets a long delay on it, group tp gets very nerfed, bloodstone got shadowrealmed about 9 months ago and never recovered, many more interactions between powers and characters and terrain just seem to not happen ever anymore

I also wanna draw attention to the airblast situation - I'm still extremely confused how a couple patches ago airblast just got removed as "we thought no one liked it" and there had to be a push to get it back. I feel like the same thing is having to happen with brush boar and idk how the expectations of what we find fun are so off

[rare zenith]

Little cook needs to stay in the game

[honest mountain]

Make power colors actually mean something, make vaults more balanced by having X amount of each rarity

[vocal canopy]

When they removed BrushBoar it was like 911 to me.

[lavish dove]

both delicate mana battery and stealth cloak are way op. but the combo is cool to get, its like collecting the infinity stones but there are only 2

[stone gulch]

^ I really do like little cook

[lavish dove]

little cook best power

[vocal canopy]

I grieve them, I miss them ... I really do ....

[tender holly]

I think keeping the power pool limited will limit creativity. Having a large pool of powers that can vary the powers seen from game to game allows for more varying outcomes and fun moments.

[vocal canopy]

#BringBrushBoarsBack

[rare zenith]

I want to see more interactions between powers like this, but I think this combination and stealth cloak in general needs to be seriously looked at.

[lavish dove]

you didnt just compare brushboar being removed to 9/11... /j

[smoky minnow]

(it's a meme)

[vocal canopy]

Notice the To Me

[lavish dove]

(I know I thought it was funny)

[rare zenith]

911 the american emergency number

[clever raft]

Thinking about the feedback here, I think there's some tension around a large group of players who find it hard to wrap their heads around Powers, and the player who's tried a lot of the different Powers and are pretty familiar with the sandbox and want the sandbox to be really vibrant.

I need to think a bit more about my Powers questions because this actually gets into a deeper philosophical question.

[vocal canopy]

Yes. Because they were the Emergency to my heart. My soul.

[fickle knoll]

Its uncomperable. Brushboar removal was way too tragic of an evem

[clever raft]

In the meantime, I think what was actually really helpful was to hear which Powers this group loved the most.

[smoky minnow]

I think the players who find it hard to talk about powers... are we talking about people from creator and journalist test?

[fringe musk]

ok so i can write my essay

[smoky minnow]

Because I think those groups got run down by vet groups

[fringe musk]

?

[smoky minnow]

heavy

[clever raft]

It comes up every playtest.

[smoky minnow]

I think a balance of simple powers and sandbox powers would be perfect

I miss rescue grenade

I know a lot of ppl want brush board

[river plaza]

i feel like talking about powers is the same as talking about hunter balance, yes its an issue but its way too broad of a topic to cover in a discussion thread

[clever raft]

What ratio would feel good to you?

[tender holly]

For me, having to learn about powers and having something new to learn in general is what makes learning a game fun. It keeps me on my toes knowing that there’s still more to find out.

[fickle knoll]

1.5 simple powers to 1 sandbox

[stoic forum]

give me back thorn shield

[vocal canopy]

They all do. Me especially ...

[stone gulch]

What is the question regarding powers? Like what role they serve in Supervive?

In some cases I wonder if powers are trying to be like items on Super Smash Brothers/Mario Kart, Runes from League, or Summoner Spells from League.

What does a power look like in Supervive to yall?

[honest mountain]

ill be with major and vouch for tree spy

[smoky minnow]

im thinking wait my brain is slow howld

[vocal canopy]

🌳

[wintry sluice]

I just think there is a value in the friction and frustration of not understanding powers to a newer player.
I think it would be important to learn from people giving this feedback if this is a reason they don't want to play the game, or just an obscurity they don't understand?
I think its totally ok for newer players to feel like powers are silly mostly worthless things, until they start remembering to actually press them in and outside of fights and start finding how impactful some of them can be

I think its important to remember that you cannot have a sense of discovery, without first having a sense of obscurity

[honest mountain]

rescue grenade is my favorite one thats gone, unless it is part of a hunter kit, which in that case gimme the hunter soon

[fickle knoll]

Comparing them to smash bros items is honestly a good one

[clever raft]

The question for me is currently - what Powers do you miss? But I would be happy to get thoughts on these questions too.

[smoky minnow]

I think at least half of the powers need to be creative at the bungee rope level

[smoky minnow]

RESCUE GRENADE PLEASE

THAT WAS PEAK

[honest mountain]

rescue grenade for sure

[smoky minnow]

you step on that thing and you get LAUNCHED

beautiful

[ionic elm]

Will echo rescue grenade.
Tree Spy was also quite nice.

[rare zenith]

rescue grenade

[vocal canopy]

You already know ........

[smoky minnow]

so much potential for any movement powers

[ocean leaf]

I think powers for me, right now, are a bit too small and limiting, I cannot remember exactly which test, but there were moments in the past where I felt that the powers thay I would pick would actively change how I would approach a battle, or give me a brand new tool to fight with. At this moment the ammount of powers that let me do tht is a bit too small. I understand not every power can be game changing, but there currently aren't enought that let me change how I play.... unless its tree costume... tree costume is peak.

[smoky minnow]

i think it would also be great to get more powers like emergency platform

i love how nuke kills bonfires and disables res beacons

[ocean leaf]

Last time I saw you use it you killed me on Kobayashi heart

[smoky minnow]

hahaha

[ocean leaf]

<3

[smoky minnow]

I also really liked how you could straight up tp heart and kobayashi's

is that no longer a thing??

[lavish dove]

Airblast, Blink, Brush Boar, Hover wings, Abyss specialist (but this power needs a cooldown like hollyy), 2 way, ambrush, grappling hook, health packs, rescue gernade, wisp magnetizer is new but very fun, GA, red GA, Rewind, Nuke, Emergancy platform, Little cook, Kaijyuu eye, Bungee shot

Off the top of my head

[smoky minnow]

i thought that was amazing

[rare zenith]

that was a good interaction

[crimson quiver]

it took me at least 4-5 months to learn all the powers, so I understand where you are coming from

[vague rock]

I think static powers and dynamic powers are good, Having ones that that are simple to use is fine, but having ones that have lots of features is fun too. Little Cook is a perfect example of a static power, He cooks random items and lets you brew your beans, That is it. 2 Way TP is a perfect example of a dynamic power that was a Huge play maker being able to drastically change the map by moving the heart, a boss, the town heart 1 time OR use it multiple times for little revives or steal bases. I think players should be rewarded for testing out power combos that can allow cool plays, and just having powers that can do cool plays by themselves. Powers are mostly RNG with some being able to get consistently, or if you path enough to places can get them consistantly every game using the beacons to see which vault they are in and maybe take down that team that took the powers.

[wet robin]

This also leans into what this post has been about in the first place. Removing the different power options that interact with multiple systems as zzkknn stated / increasing the amount of stat stick powers like touch of „x“ will just remove a great amount of depth from the game. I love seeing interesting plays being created from different powers since it feels more unique than the 10th RJ hoverwings double shift combo. Flat out removing powers that might give an idea of a different playstyle just lead to every one running the same stuff

[ocean leaf]

I specifically made my first video going over every power, because I know it was confusing

[smoky minnow]

ok im done

[stone gulch]

Because items in Smash Bros aren't even on in pro play but they can expand creativity with combos/set ups and ARE used in combo tournaments.

Items in Mario Kart you use at specific times to get ahead of your oppenents and how you race around the track.

Runes in league TRY to increase a certain way you want to do something.

Summoner spells in league are a way to expand your current player but not change how you play the game if that makes sense.

These are all questions that I feel Power in general is trying to fulfill but the question is, what should it look like in Supervive.

I have always treated them as summoner spells, just things that add to my gameplay but they aren't going to change how I build on Zeph or stuff like that.

[smoky minnow]

my only other opinions are on communication (in everything) and simplifying things

[crimson quiver]

which is big btw. Not all players care enough to watch youtube though

sadly

[tender holly]

The more variety we have, the more options there are to play the game differently imo.

[ocean leaf]

I do like the "touch of x" powers they bring a new dynamic... people just honestly suck at playing around their teammates and realizing "now is the time to touch my friends" they just didn't think about it, I have won a lot of fights by timing touch of life or touch of speed

[fickle knoll]

Im going to drop my little hot take that I think consumable items could also use some work.

[ocean leaf]

Sadge, it's also my most viewed video even though it's the one I put the least effort in lol

[rare zenith]

I agree whole heartedly

[tranquil oar]

This exact thing is why I was actually a really big advocate for the beginner storm shift. I think its a good band-aid solution to temper the complexity of certain systems for new players until they're ready to take the training wheels off

[river plaza]

i think OC said it earlier but they need to balance powers based on the rarity, right now the rarity means almost nothing. That was the stronger powers are rarer so it creates less situations where people hit exodia powers every game

[vague rock]

This is the best way to explain that, perfect choice of words XD

[fickle knoll]

I just do a loud ass kiss sound every time I heal with touch of life

[crimson quiver]

^^^

[ocean leaf]

Anyway, major bed time, don't kill each other, be respectful of the devs, safelocked and all that Jazz, and I will see alll you lovely people (and paz ) tomorrow

[smoky minnow]

its still a bandaid tho

[ocean leaf]

[smoky minnow]

but not my area of knowledge so

[fickle knoll]

Our coms once where literally just panicked "COME HERE ILL KISS YOU!"

[honest mountain]

yep

[devout rock]

Capture ball, airblast and bungee are probably my 3 favorite powers

[wet robin]

It might be just that. I feel like I just never heard someone call in coms, „quick touch me for HP“. It feels more like a pick up and forget power. When I f.e. use chonker I actively think about my position and potential wall bounces

[ocean leaf]

Saying this one last thing actually I miss Hyperpunch on Bishiop with bungie, please bring that back

[ocean leaf]

Then it's aslo a fault of that person not having coms, it's a fine power, just no one is really trying, I think at one point my last day I was yelling at either Jack or Jang to touch me for like 10s to give me mana lol

Ok

For realsies

Sleep time

[devout rock]

It was kinda weirdge, and the enemies experience of it probably wasn't great, but it was pretty fun to do and interesting.

[tender holly]

Ghillie suit my beloved

[pine solstice]

Good night!

[smoky minnow]

hp touch i have def called out

touch of mana never

touch of speed is just like a "i have no other powers, may as well"

[rare zenith]

Are the touch powers ally only i forget?

[smoky minnow]

ya

would be cool if they weren't

[sand meadow]

brush boar - above
hot!hot!hot! - when it was a damage aoe and not a self nuke that did nothing) was silly but effective on certain characters
bloodstone - when it actually did anything
rescue grenade - the vfx of it sucked
jdash - once it got moved to red its basically a dead power cause it does so little for what it is
tree prison - it used to be a power and rn its just really not
anti ronin field - if this power did what it was supposed to do it could be cool. also it hit ur own team which sucked a lot
timber - it wasnt that good but really funny. it had potential to be good but the numbers weren't good and it took wayy too long to hit for the execution required
cremation - i think this could have been added to a different power(bloodstone?), it was too rare for what it did so was often skipped despite being useful
wave maker - the animation feels really bad. also it not making water means it hurt a lot of synergy with other powers (scuba, water bottle)
mana drain grenade - this power was actually sick. it countered berry eater stuff. u could use it to nuke staggered mobs for like 8k damage and oneshot camps. was a way of generating mana that isnt sitting around afk smoking some mana cloud or touching ur homies
remote laser - this one is just funny
riftwalk - had cool potential, it was just really jank cause u couldnt jump or go over ledges making it only really usable on flat surfaces

a problem also is that a lot of current powers feel really bad because they were made to feel that way. powers got nerfed as a baseline in red powers patch and some never fully recovered. so when ppl stop using them cause they are bad it looks bad for the power.

idk what powers got removed last focus group pt as i wasnt there, but this list is what i miss from sept pt.

[vague rock]

touch of healing, now with the added feature to finally touch your enemies. Make love to your enemies, not war

[rare zenith]

imagine the chases off procing touch of speed off the person youre chasing and now youre both fast

[celest flame]

i want my axe back man

[rare zenith]

Remote laser also had great interactions with things like bosses and vaults 100% a power that is interesting and can be used dynamically

[vague rock]

JDash felt like a power you would get and would change your rotations to getting more vaults but now that its a red power, I really have never taken it cause why would I, idk the use for it anymore except for trying to use it to escape is what I mostly used it for otherwise.

[celest flame]

i was thinking about this today now that deadlock released (many more people got access), do we actually need this? but completely off topic so pls ignore

[devout rock]

Oh the fishing rod before the powers test was cool too, where it got consumables from abyss/water, way more fun to use than the water-bottle in my opinion.

Dashing across the abyss while fishing at the same time was just really satisfying

[sand meadow]

i think it oneshotting vaults was a little dumb - we have robber for that now. it provided a rare unconditional movement ability which some characters desperately needed.

it doesnt interact with momentum well, locks ur animations while doing it. and waaay too rare for it to be used vs its competitor red powers

[devout rock]

Can't ignore you sorry, I think Deadlock lets you bring in more of your skills from other games than Supervive does, at least that's how I felt with my experience in MOBAs and Shooters, and I think that gives me a stronger foundation to build off in that game compared to Supervive.

[celest flame]

dm me i dont wanna flood this place (which is why i said ignore)

[vernal vortex]

yeah i miss mana drain, an actually interactive mana power instead of just mana: cloud/font/passive

[sand meadow]

a ratio of serious powers vs fun ones or gimmick ones shouldn't be from the list of powers as a whole but rather what drops from a vault.

if people look at a vault and go "i dont want to open that" i think something has failed. i can find many games where my team will drop, have no powers, and we will skip 3 vaults in a row before we choose to open one because all of them were so bad.

having some sort of guarantee that you'll get like "one capable combat power" "two funny powers" "two macro powers" or w/e fits balance best would feel a lot better. similar to how like booster packs in card games guarantee you get one high tier card.

[honest mountain]

well said

[vernal vortex]

cant wait to hit the Mythic foil alt art power in the vault

and sell it to an enemy team for like 300$

[fringe musk]

I think powers have become more and more dull ever since powers 3.0, because after powers 3.0 everyone was sick of them so they have since then slowly been getting nerfed (or atleast thats what it feels like to me). Powers right now are all instant value with the exception of a very select few (1-3) they all have an effect when u press them or put them down in a fight that will give u value almost guaranteed, while I think its good that those powers exist I think a majority of the powers should not do this, powers that are an example of not instant value in my eyes are like Brush Boar, Tree Axe, Rescue Nade. There was countless more powers similar to these were they instead were very useful in specific scenarios for example lets say ur having a bad game havent been able to cap a single bonfire but you find a singular tree owl and a pair of money tree nades you now have infinite free vision out of 2 pretty mediocre powers.

I think its also about time we do something about the color of powers cause outside of red the colors seemingly mean nothing and havent ever since I first started playtesting around the start of 2023, this could also be a way to balance the fact that right now you can pretty much guarantee whichever powers you want because of A. the limited pool of powers and B. UAV's. I think its also very confusing for new players as in every other game the colors tend to signify rarity but im pretty sure that isnt the case here. I can remember last full playtest I met the same kingpin who had the same 2 powers every single game because you can essentially guarantee ur powers.

Another one of my favorite powers before even powers 3.0 was the fishing rod, because it had no inherent fight advantage but instead just gave u free consumables and you had to play around them for the power to give any value at all. I also liked one variant during powers 3.0 where you would fish up a endgame boss equivalent if you used it in water I thought that was really interesting

[honest mountain]

also balance powers to their rarity, theres no way abyss specialist is a blue power and something like the one that gives u dmg reduction at full hp is a purple

[fringe musk]

Also P.S add tree axe back pls

it was so fun to use

[fringe musk]

stupid discord wouldnt let me type more

wcyd

ok but I have to go to bed now cause it do be 3 am and I have to wake up in 2 hours

gl with the convo

[sand meadow]

if a vault is actively bad and new players open it they are griefing themselves and dont even realize it. you are told to go to vaults for good stuff, its one of the big early game objectives. you open this vault find 2 runes, tree costume and rally. (tree costume isn't great but its funny)

you made a bunch of dings on the map for everyone to run at you, you spent time not looking for other resources macro wise, and your end result is so nothing. its not fun, not good for macro and doesn't help in combat.

a new player wont know what powers are bad till they use them, and if their first few experiences are with vaults that offer effectively nothing it's going to feel really really bad. "why would i open these"

[vernal vortex]

tom kick and grapple hook. Match made in heaven 💑

i do agree with what has been said that the powers feel like theyre lacking creativity right now. And most of the powers are instant gratification powers that dont really do anything else than one very straightforward thing.

[clever raft]

Lists were great, thanks all.

[pine solstice]

Of course

[stone gulch]

Thank YOU for taking the time

[vague rock]

Glad to give my 2 cents, This is my favorite game and I want it to go in a good direction. Hope it was all helpful into figuring out what needs to be done

[pine solstice]

I think discussion may continue more actively tomorrow, but it is really late and a lot of people have either gone to bed or are winding down for the night.

[stone gulch]

It truly is SO so appreciated

[clever raft]

Was just reading through everyone’s responses too. Have more follow-up thoughts and questions, but yeah - I need to eat dinner and folks are getting ready to sleep too.

Let’s call it for tonight and I’ll come back to more Powers conversation tomorrow.

[honest mountain]

thanks for spending time answering jess, really appreciated

[clever raft]

Appreciate y’all - I actually love hearing the nuance here because sometimes it gets lost when we can’t ask follow-up questions.

[pine solstice]

Kind of crazy that this thread got almost 2k messages in the first day, and there's still more to talk about... Again, thank you for reading, Jess, it has been wonderful to feel heard and have this opportunity to just let our thoughts out.

[stone gulch]

I feel talking about UI, map, and drop locations are some big next things

[fringe musk]

U are my goat

Wp

[stone gulch]

But seriously thank you for actively engaging with us and I hope we were able to have good conversation over it : D

[honest mountain]

werent u going sleep

[vernal vortex]

jess is now in contention of my fav dev

[smoky minnow]

bro

we cant be ranking devs

💀

joe tung is #1 and everyone else is #2 ok

[honest mountain]

can we rank mods instead

[pine solstice]

yup, OC's at the bottom...

[honest mountain]

[vague rock]

Allo has to be my #1 since he is on my team lmao, but all the other mods can be #2 cause you are all great

[pine solstice]

Fate's at the top cause he's my teammate, and uh... everybody else tied for 2nd

[vague rock]

see, we got the same reason for different people lmao

[valid torrent]

fates at the top cuz he plays void