#Alpha Legion 2.0 - Theorycrafting

2616 messages · Page 3 of 3 (latest)

hushed cliff
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I’m going with 1x10 in a Spartan to plonk on a far away objective I think

spiral pond
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Looks like it's the cold one skin from the dark elf Corsair kit

finite moat
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I'd save the 100 pt tact squad for far objectives

chrome frost
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The cape is from the AoS dark elf pirates

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round wagon
left herald
chrome frost
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I thought they looked really cool.

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I used the Fleet master cape for my Exodus

idle falcon
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3man laser destroyer rapier and a 10man lascannon team infiltrating going to do work against a Spartan and Kratos or am I just screwed? That’s the heaviest weapons I have. 😭

left herald
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Lascannons do big work

idle falcon
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Phew! I’ll update with a debrief after I get splatter across the table though!

left herald
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Hydra Dominatus brother!

jolly helm
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The "new" plastic Rhino Deimos is

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A pain

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In the Alpharius

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To build...

past latch
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really? i was hoping they are easier to build then the FW hybrid kit

left herald
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I'm limiting myself to one tank - a Sicaran Venator - to avoid raging too often

oblique lotus
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With the tactical troops do you get cc weapons or bayonets?

left herald
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Not unless you buy them

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But despoilers are the melee versions and come with ccw

oblique lotus
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I'm asking if it's worth it to spend the points

left herald
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Chain bayonets - maybe.

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If you want melee get despoilers

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if you want range get tacs

green roost
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Honestly, at only 2 pts I feel like Chain Bayonets are a steal

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Same profile as Chainswords (other than being two handed)

oblique lotus
left herald
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Did the Pale Spear have Fleshbane in HH1?

muted bobcat
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Armourbane, instant death in hh1

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Never used allies before but wanted to check if this idea is correct:
Start with a 2000pt Primary detachment Alpha Legion and Praetor with Loyalist Mobius configuration

ally detachment with another legion’s delegatus with jump pack and 2 assault squads.

Now my question is:

  1. I still get to use a Rite of War for my primary detachment (say Headhunter Leviathal).
  2. Can I also use a Rite (angels wrath) to deepstrike my ally jump pack squads turn 1?
left herald
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I believe that's right - as long as none of the RoW have conflicting limitations

rigid topaz
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If Alpharius gives himself Infiltrate does that confer to his command squad, or does he need to give it to them separately?

left herald
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rules for IC indicate you join a squad during deployment, and he gives out his special rule before deployment. So you'd need to give it to them too

rigid topaz
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I'm thinking he might not need to because the Retinue rule says "The Retinue squad... is considered part of the same unit as [Alpharius]"

left herald
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actually yeah I can see that

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but I think will need an FAQ

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cos it says the retinue 'must be deployed with' the character, but it also says infiltrating ICs can't join non-infiltrating units in deployment

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but if they're considered part of the same unit...

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lets ask in the rules chat

left herald
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Seems like retinue gets it if daddy Alpha gets it

left herald
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in which case do I then take Deathwing Companion as my stolen unit?

rigid topaz
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No, because you don't have a model with Master of the Legion and LA (Dark Angels)

left herald
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(DA) would be replaced with (AL)

jolly helm
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What's the question ?

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You don't replace Legiones X with AL for any rule inside a stolen unit

left herald
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I don't see why it shouldn't count

jolly helm
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Because you are just replacing the X for AL in the Legiones Astartes of the unit. Not from its specific rules

left herald
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It just says it replaces the LA(X) special rule with the LA(AL) special rule

jolly helm
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In the unit list of rules. Not inside rules that are listed.

left herald
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the retinue rule uses the LA(X) special rule in its wording

left herald
jolly helm
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What you miss is that we are talking if the unit possess a version of the Legiones Astartes Special Rules.

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For the Special Retinue Special Rule, the unit also possess it, except nothing in RoT says you replace all occurancies of Legiones Astartes Special rules in every rules of the unit.

left herald
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'However, all the models in the selected unit exchange their original LA rule for the LA special rule'

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It doesn't specify that it only applies to the one instance in the list

jolly helm
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Yes. Their original LA rules in the listed special rules they possess.

Not inside of special rules.

left herald
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You're attributing additional meaning where none is specified

jolly helm
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You are just making them from Legiones Astartes (Blood Angel) to Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) for exemple.

jolly helm
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You are just switching a Legiones Astartes Special Rules for Another.

left herald
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Yes

jolly helm
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Nothing is said about touching Legiones Astartes special interaction inside of special rules specific to the unit.

left herald
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And in the (retinue unit under consideration) it uses the Legion Astatres (X) special rule

jolly helm
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If you have :

Legiones Astartes (X)
Special Retinue rule
Set of other special rules

You are just changing the Legiones Astartes (X).

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Ok, do what you want.

left herald
jolly helm
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Wording is simple, you are not touching the rules inside of special rules

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Just changing Legiones Astartes "meta rule" to another.

left herald
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Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing lol

jolly helm
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No, you are entering inside special rules to change Legiones Astartes in those

left herald
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Nowhere does it say 'only in this specific part of the units profile'

jolly helm
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Which is not what it is.

left herald
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It's the same unit lol

spiral pond
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Traditionally in 1.0, the ruling was applied as Raeven's interpretation. Toss the new wording on the pile of "confusingly-worded Alpha Legion 2.0 rules."

chrome frost
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Follow-up Question: What Retinue would be good to bring with Alpharius if someone were to?

hushed cliff
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Raw, raeven has it right. You change the units LA rule, you don’t change the units special rules. It could be clearer though.

muted bobcat
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As it is written I’d agree with Moon. The old rewards had a line that states to the effect that all legione astartes special rules become legiones astartes (alpha legion) where relevant, and not the parent legion.

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The way the current rule is written, it looks like it could be argued both ways. The last paragraph says you exchange the original LA(X) special rule for the LA(AL) special rule. It does not say change the text of relevant rules in the unit. Like the old writing

timid hamlet
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The fact that companions specifically call out being a retinue to Dark Angels feels relevant, I don't believe other retinue abilities call out the legion.

left herald
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Some of them do

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Others call out specific primarchs

spiral pond
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Suzies call it out.

left herald
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Firedrake too

knotty tusk
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What’s everyone’s thoughts on banestrike bolters?

chrome frost
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Personally, I like them. Yeah, they're a little short ranged, but the fact that most of the army infiltrates means you're getting your shots off. And they will kill infantry of all flavors, so i think that power is worth the 6 inches closer you have to be

left herald
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yeah me gusta

jolly helm
spiral pond
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More like four, I think

jolly helm
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You have to be 6 inches closer.

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Oh yeah I see what you mean.

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We are thinking the opposite way. For you it is like a 4 inches closer.

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Compared to your opponent.

spiral pond
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haha I sent that and was thinking "...right? am I an idiot?" and then you came back and it's like "oh no, I am"

jolly helm
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Typical Alpha Legion style.

spiral pond
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gettin everybody, even ourselves

jolly helm
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Moreover, I think they are an awesome dish out. I see more and more people complaining about deep strike, as well as dreads, but we will pay sooner than later the 5-10pts for the "If your opponent deep strike, you have a free shot at him"

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You don't want to drop near a unit of Banestrike Veterans or Headhunters I think...

crisp idol
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Right I see the issue being described; basically, rules as written if it specifies a legiones astartes rule, like say in a legion reaction, you definitely can't do it

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But if your replacing the special rule of a legion specific unit, it changes to alpha legion, nothing else does?

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I guess the argument is if 'relevant' is beyond the special rule or not

jolly helm
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Well, if we can have another legion Retinue Squad it's something else to take into account

crisp idol
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I think this is another "submit a request to the FAQ email and wait"

green roost
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Is it worth taking Assault Sqauds for Alpha Legion?
I like them but I'm not sure if the extra movement is necessary with all the infiltrate and scout shennanigans

finite moat
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since I don't have a better rite than Pride atm I'm taking lernies as line troops 🤪

green roost
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Stick em in the backfield with some Conversion beams and they will do work

jolly helm
jolly helm
left herald
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(them being the Lerneans)

finite moat
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yeah it should be possible as they included the clause any other termie pattern armour

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in any case I am happy to use more lernies

jolly helm
# left herald Why not just take them as line troops?

Cost vs Usefulness.

Sorry but Lerneans are vastly over priced for the purpose to have them in mass.

Pride army "most optimized" should be 2 Generic Termies + RoT unit (preferably Line one such as Suzerain), then only adding Lernies, then filling with stuff, whatever you want.

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And you only move Lernies into troops 1 slot at a time to "open" Elite slot (I mean, moving 1 squad of Lernies in Troops to have a Contemptor Talon is a very good idea)

left herald
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He already said he's taking them, so may as well take them as Troop vs Elite

jolly helm
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Pride of the Legion Alpha Army (2500pts)

HQ :

Praetor

  • Master Crafted Parangon Blade
  • Warlord Trait : Hydran Excursor
  • Rite of War : Pride of the Legion

5 Tartaros Legion Command Squad

  • 1 Chainfists
  • 4 Thunder Hammers
  • 5 Volkite Chargers
    DT : Land Raider Proteus

Elite :

10 Invictarus Suzerain
-10 Marteaux Tonnerres
DT : Land Raider Proteus

5 Lernaeans Terminators

  • 1 Conversion Beamer

1 Contemptor Dreadnought

  • Gravis Lascannon
  • In-built Graviton Gun

Apothecarion Detachement

  • 1 Apothecary

Troops :

5 Legion Terminator Cataphractii

  • 1 Reaper Autocanon

5 Legion Terminator Cataphractii

  • 1 Reaper Autocanon

5 Lernaeans Terminators

  • 1 Conversion Beamer

That's how I would tailor a Pride List.

At low point it does not change a lot of stuff but if you fill in the Terminator in Troops, you can't move Lernies into troops.

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Almost what should be done is to fill in troops generic termies before even adding Lernies.

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They don't bring enough to value the 75+ points.

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It's 6 lines, could be even more...

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6 generic termies with Reaper + 10 Suzerains Hammer in LR + Command squad and Praetor in LR is 2475pts. Can find 45 for an Apothecary in the Suzerains.

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And it's 8 lines...

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(Yes, I think 10 hammer Suzerains is too much point into one squad for 2500. Going down to 6 and you could have another line :D)

left herald
rigid topaz
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Any suggestions for Saboteur upgrades? I used to run him with just BP+CCW when his sabotage was the draw, but that's not cutting it now he actually has to do things

hushed cliff
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I think either Combi melta-into-tank suicide dude or twin lightning claws charge-into-backfield artillery dude is what I’m thinking

odd geode
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Is the conversion Beamer on Larnaean terminators worth it with its new profile and point cost if the intended use for them is sitting on objectives and staying there ?

left herald
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I'm of a mind to say 'sure, I'll take it' just in case it there's one turn where you've got a target at decent range and it pays for itself

spiral pond
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I'd just magnetize it and try it out, see how it feels

zenith gorge
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lot of stuff to read through here, is there a good rundown of the best way to build the AoD box for AL? completely new to the legion

solemn dragon
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2x 10 tactical and the rest as you like, support squads (heavy or special weapons), maybe seekers or recon marines if you want to go that way

zenith gorge
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yeah, i'm thinking i'll build 2x10 tacs, 5x missiles, 5x heavy bolters, 5x meltas, 5x flamers, and that'll give me some variety

solemn dragon
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the good thing with AL is your trait is useful for every type of unit in most situations, if you pay a little attention

spiral pond
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You could paint 5-10 up as Headhunters, too, just give em a more tacticool paint scheme

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Would highly recommend at least 5 sniper recon marines

zenith gorge
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oh yeah, headhunters are a good idea

zenith gorge
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Follow-up question, now that I realize I can easily convert my beakies to headhunters by 3d printing some dragon scale pauldrons -- how man HHs is too many? Haha

chrome frost
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I'm running 40, so I'm the wrong person to ask 😂

zenith gorge
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lol

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i figure sense they can be troops OR fast attack, that's basically saying "run a bunch"

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(with the RoW)

chrome frost
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Yeah, I'm running 2 ten man's as Troops and 2 ten man's as Fast.
My one heavy support is a Leviathan Talon with 2 dreads.

My elites are two 5 man Lernaeans with Volkite Culverins, and 10 Suzerain (RoT)

spiral pond
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I plan on sticking to ten until I have a better grip on how much Line I'll want in my lists. I figure that I can always drop a Line unit and fold in more killing power later.

chrome frost
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I still want to run a ten man because that's a lot to deal with. But then I played a mission with objectives against a Dark angels player with Pride of the Legion and 6 squads of Line Terminators. I realized I needed more than two line.

spiral pond
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Damn, how'd he get six? Two Compulsory, could get another from a Herald I guess.

chrome frost
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Pride of the legion makes regular Termies Troops and Line. The Force Org allows 6 troops

spiral pond
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I believe that it's only the models in a Compulsory troops slot that get Line.

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Force Org has the two Compulsory slots and four non-Compulsory slots.

chrome frost
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huh... I'm no longer sure. We may have flubbed that.

spiral pond
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lol you got alpharius'd

chrome frost
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I'm going to use that from now on

spiral pond
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The books haven't even been in our hands for two weeks, everybody's messing stuff up haha

chrome frost
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fair lol

zenith gorge
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1x Praetor w/ MC paragon blade
1x Armillus Dynat
2x Cataphractii Squads (sgt w/ LCs, squad with bolters, 1x flamer)
1x Contemptor w/ lascannon and fist with melta
2x Support Squads, 1 with meltas, 1 with flamers
4x five man HH kill teams
1x Heavy Support Squad with missiles
1x Kratos with autocannon
a Rhino in there somewhere

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just need to kitbash a Dynat, but I think that's how I'll do my AoD box

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that's around 2500 points

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(headhunter leviathal)

solemn dragon
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You have no line units, which means no scoring objectives

zenith gorge
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aren't HH squads scoring with the headhunter rite of war?

twin finch
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Nope

zenith gorge
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Doh

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Back to the drawing board

twin finch
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Recon Squads are line

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And the Recon Company RoW makes them noprmal troops

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*normal

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And their kinda like HHs =p

zenith gorge
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Haha I'll just run normal troops instead of supports

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Or put my HHs in fast attack slots and regular troops in troop slots

solemn dragon
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I think support squads > HHs for beginners trying to kick off a new collection

crisp idol
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a volkite heavy support will do so much heavy lifting

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or lascannons

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headhunters are great but they are specialised like DasEi02 says

oblique lotus
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I am doing my first game on Wednesday, rough idea what I am looking for a 1k game

glad zinc
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Any ideas for AL ZM lists? Which unit would you steal?

I was thinking about Pride with Veterans as troops, then stealing something like Rampagers, Firedrakes or Invictarii.

solemn dragon
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AL are super strong in ZM, just keep your distance and get the counter charge on the opponent. For RoT it depends, take something to complement your list

hushed cliff
glad zinc
hushed cliff
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I think they’d excel in tight corridors. They’re relatively tough, they have solid anti-armour and anti infantry, and can take decent close combat weapons

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Might be a bit cheesy tho

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Another cheesy pick is grave wardens. It’s probably worth asking your opponent what kind of game they want, and choose according to that.

left herald
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The DA plasma flamers

oblique lotus
finite moat
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access required

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otherwise another tactic squad with chain bayos is about 120

oblique lotus
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Access updated but chain bayo doesnt feel very fluffy they are loud and not sneaky

lethal owl
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Legion centurion 60
Plasma pistol 10
Champion 35
Paragon blade 0
Legion apothecarion detachment 45
+1 apothecary 45
Artificer armor x1 10
Legion tactical squad 100
+10 troops 100
Artificer armor 10
Nuncio vox 10
Vexilla 10
Chain bayonet 40
Legion tactical squad 100
Spartan 350
Flare shield 50
Hull lascannon 25

Centurion, one of the apothecaries, and the big tactical squad all go in the spartan to punch stuff in the face while the 10 man unit stays on a back field objective with the apothecary with artificer armor.

Considering dropping a few dudes out of the big unit to give the other one a few upgrades but not sure.
Not sure which warlord trait to give the warlord tbh so any suggestions would be welcomed

solemn dragon
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Headhunter for the remaining 130 points

lethal owl
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My math shows this list as 1k on the nose?

oblique lotus
solemn dragon
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or alternatively get some AT, if you opponent brings rhinos (or a spartan) you have no way to bring them down

vague jasper
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Hey all, I'm sure this has been asked to death already, but is there a general consensus on restrictions for CoH?

Is it 3 different units from any number of Legions? 3 different units from one legion? Or 3 of the same unit from the same legion?

solemn dragon
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u should ask you opponent and imo it should at least be 3 different units from the same legion if not 3 units from any legion

oblique lotus
solemn dragon
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Anti-Tank

oblique lotus
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Maybe upgrade the headhunters with combi metas?

solemn dragon
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could help, but kinda lowers their damage output, because you lose out on banestrike shells

oblique lotus
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A support team of melts is that under 130?

muted bobcat
jolly helm
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I found a way to save Lernies.

Letting them being a Retinue, and if so, getting their WS back to 5.

solemn dragon
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They have line which makes them good enough as is

jolly helm
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Well, not for that price but yeah

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People want to play them cause they are cool.

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But be honest, they are just bad.

solemn dragon
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Is there any other termi unit with line, 3 wound on the Sergeant, Iwnd 5+, and +1 to hit

jolly helm
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Well, there is termi with IWND 5+ and WS 5 and a 3+ invul.

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And rerolling every 1 to hit.

muted bobcat
jolly helm
muted bobcat
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Thats what i thought. It looked like the discussion said only line troops in compulsory slots can score.

jolly helm
solemn dragon
jolly helm
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Lernies are on the lower end of the spectrum.

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Well, Headhunters as well so...

solemn dragon
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If we want the op unit we can allways use them, so it is acceptable to have mediocre AL specific units

jolly helm
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Well, no.

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Fact is, Lernies were op in V1 draft beta test.

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And they got hard nerf.

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But price did not follow.

chrome frost
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What are people's thoughts on Levi Dreads with Drill and Grav

green roost
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Grav is ok

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Drill is great!

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Dreads are Great!

chrome frost
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so would the melta lance be a better option?

green roost
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Leviathan Dreads like to get up close, so I would say yes

chrome frost
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Good enough for me. thanks

green roost
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no problem : ]

earnest eagle
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How would you guys equip a recon squad

jolly helm
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Depends

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Suicide Melta Squad on a Spartan/Big tank

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Objective Keeper long range with Némésis bolter.

green roost
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Thinking I might replace my Tartoros Command Squad with some Justaerin Termies

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Can I take them as Retinue in Alpha Legion?

spiral pond
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Jury is out. My interpretation is no, because I don't think the mechanics of RoT reach in to special rules.

That said, I asked my usual gaming bud if I could do it and he said sure, so check with your usual play group.

green roost
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Thank you!

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Looking into them more, I'm not sure how much better they are than just a standard retinue squad

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Their fancy axes are nice, but I'm looking for Warlord and Primarch hunters

round wagon
green roost
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Yeah!!!

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I've been looking for those to kitbash Headhunters

round wagon
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Everyone has, lol

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these look way cooler too IMO

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for a whopping $0.53

green roost
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Decided to google "Aleph Null" and now I'm being forced to learn about number theory

left herald
round wagon
green roost
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Ok, I understand what it means
now I'm trying to figure out what it has to do with Alpharius

chrome frost
round wagon
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No problemo! I decided to go with WE, but glad I found these for the Alpha Legion players in here, haha

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looks like they'll work one handed too which is pretty neat

green roost
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Space Marines always appreciate being able to work one handed

clear bluff
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What's a good generic RoW to go with a vehicle heavy list? (4 rhinos, spartan, proteus and eventually a glaive)?

green roost
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The Armoured Spearhead RoW is good if you have Predators, Sicarians, and Land Raiders

muted bobcat
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Im sad… cant take fury of the ancients with Alpharius. Their rules force you to use a different warlord for each lol

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There goes my idea for an easy to pack list of 9 dreadnoughts, alpharius and 10 terminators lol

river stag
green roost
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Fury of the Ancients is cool on paper, but kind of impractical
If you use all theElite and Heavy Slots you can already bring 15 Dreads any more than that seems insane

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Having ObSec Contemptors is nice though

rigid sage
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made a list and looking for criticism 🙂

green roost
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Thinking it might be fun to field Alpharius with an Iron Circle Maniple

jolly helm
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Same issue.

Praevian/Forge Lord tax.

rigid sage
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how good is alpharius for us? im really liking his toolbox aspect

lost sapphire
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Hes just not a beatstick solo like some are, but hes more interesting for what be brings imo

spiral pond
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It's a shame that he's on the higher end, points-wise. I feel that the designers remembered tooled-up Preferred Enemy (You) lists and simultaneously a) increased his points cost and b) toned down that rule.

rigid sage
jolly helm
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You can't really calculate anything about him.

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He brings so much for the army. Like 10 times more than any other primarchs.

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I really think he is point accurate.

spiral pond
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Sure he brings a really high skill ceiling, but a low skill floor too. I feel like a lot of folks are going to try him out, not optimize their deployment/usr timings well, and feel like "I paid 465 points for that?" while they see their buddy with Russ tearing through their lines.

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but if ya give him more juice, that's only going to buff the beardy deep-striking leviathan talon list, so. I dunno where to go from there.

green roost
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Pretty pleased with my list right now, though I will probably tweak it later

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Got tons of Infiltrate From Dynat and some Headhunters

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I can put a Tartatos Command Squad, 2 Tac Squads, 2 Headhunter Squads, and 3 characters in the middle of the board

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And they all get the shrouded Rule from The Headhunter Leviathal

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Then I have a Contemptor for anti tank
5 Sky Hunters to get in the backfield
A Leviathan
10 Siege Termies
And 5 Lernaens

jolly helm
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Even with a Russ tearing machine in front.

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Even base 175pts dreads are like a pain in the ar$e to deal with.

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6 base dreads + 3 base leviathan and you are at 1860pts.

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And Alpharius does not even need to be your Warlord to give infiltrate

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So you can even play Fury of the Ancient with him.

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1 Dread Warlord + 2x3 dreads base + 3 levi base + Alpharius it's 2530pts "base".

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If you play 3000pts it's a big number of point left to personnalize the dread, giving Alpharius a "mandatory" 10 tacticals body guard and maybe on or 2 more dreads.

green roost
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Fury of the Ancients requires a Dread to be your Warlord I believe

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And I'm pretty sure a Primarch always has to be the Warlord if you bring them

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So you can't do both

jolly helm
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Not sure about the second part, lemme check

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Oh yes, Primarch sub type

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Sad af

green roost
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Nah its good
Fury of the Ancients is OP as it is

jolly helm
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I laugh hard about that, because if you listen each person, they all think something is OP and the new meta.

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Nemesis bolter spam

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Dreadnoughts FotA spam

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Armour spam IH

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The "only" issue with FotA is the missing line that appear on Pride of the Legion.

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"Only compulsory troop choice gain line"

spiral pond
# jolly helm Nobody will love having 6 dreads + 3 Leviathan in the face turn 1 I THINK

That's what I'm saying though. If ya have a big collection and can fill a list with the good things for alpharius to buff, then he's well worth the points. If you're in a playgroup where a lot of folks are coming in with the Big Box, a Primarch, and maybe a unique unit, he's going to drastically underperform compared to the cheaper, simpler Primarchs. Force multipliers are only good if you bring stuff to multiply. (I'm just making conversation though, not trying to come out on top of anything lol)

jolly helm
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No no, not taking it this way, you are 100% right

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Alpharius isn't a good "Primarch" as in "Primarch killing machine"

spiral pond
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Never was, as we saw on pluto and eskrandor lol

jolly helm
#

I still think primarchs are no healthy for the game for most people. Like they are too much "the way to go" for too much people imo

green roost
#

Alphy is the tiniest Primarch
The other Primarchs will bully him

#

That's why you gotta give him some Iron Circle

jolly helm
#

Just bring me a 3500 lists with one Praetor only composed of 120 marines.

jolly helm
green roost
#

Boooooo

jolly helm
#

Moreover Alpharius cannot join them.

#

Because of Automata sub type.

green roost
#

Boooooooooooooooooo

#

Suzerains with Thunder Hammers then

#

Bonk Angron in the face

jolly helm
#

Suzerains or Firedrakes, yep.

#

I'm leaning toward Firedrakes but they aren't line, which is a very good point.

#

Just what the fuck did GW thought giving Line to Suzerains...

rare sentinel
#

Everything about Suzerains makes me go wtf

green roost
#

They're the Ultramarines
They have to be a little overpowered

upbeat bear
#

Finally found the channel - for the Headhunter Kill Team, do you guys use the MK IV marine box?
I'm looking for the correct box to not cut up the armor too much

crisp idol
#

yep, they use the MkIVs

jolly helm
#

I'm not using anything for my Headhunters, especially not the Forge World kit.

crisp idol
#

well that's a shame, I love that kit

rare sentinel
#

Got mine in MkIV

jolly helm
green roost
#

Planning to use some Mk6 with printed helmets and Pauldrons

jolly helm
#

A whole squad of 10 with TH, Land raider and Apothecary is like 705pts.

upbeat bear
#

Cheers!

jolly helm
#

Hydran Excursor Praetor in it.

#

"Sorry, i'm hitting you on 3+"

spiral pond
rare sentinel
green roost
#

And they'll fold your laundry for you

rare sentinel
#

It almost feels dirty using them as our Treason units xD

jolly helm
#

Honestly, I would never play against someone bringing more than one unit of those.

muted bobcat
muted bobcat
muted bobcat
rare sentinel
#

I like it

rare sentinel
#

What's a good loadout for a Saboteur? Combi-Melta?

upbeat bear
#

Wait - MK IV marines are out of stock everywhere and being repackaged in 20 man squads for new HH?

spiral pond
#

Other way around, they were already repackaged and have since sold out

upbeat bear
#

Well

#

No Headhunters for me then

spiral pond
#

nah, just get creative with your knife and clippers

upbeat bear
#

nope

#

I'll just wait for re-release

#

I want a clean look

spiral pond
#

up to you lol, I think the bitz look classier on mkVI

upbeat bear
#

I bashed a lot with my Indomitus set (was my first experience with WH) and quite a lot turned out....not so good.
I'm doing better now, but I'm working with expensive FW plastic, I don't want to ruin that.

Having 2 halves of the torsos help a lot with that

spiral pond
#

Oh yeah, the modern kits make it much easier to have realistic poses out of the box

chrome frost
#

Ive already posted this, but this is my MKVI with Headhunter bits. turned out pretty well. all you really have to do is cut the torso off

unknown.png
#

and I only used Sprue Cutters and a round file

upbeat bear
#

Alphari-SUS

I can't Huerus

chrome frost
#

Since I'm here, What does the Light unit subtype do? I dont have my books on me at the moment

upbeat bear
#

oh well, I just saw

There's no left hands on the MKVI, they are on the weapons

#

No way this'll happen

#

nope

muted bobcat
#

Off with their hands! 🤣

spiral pond
#

Pick up some hands holding daggers off ebay and go for the tacticool 'holding knife under gun' look

chrome frost
#

Thats also what I had to do... forgot that lol

upbeat bear
#

Scraping hands off and using them on another gun is the forbidden kitbash for me

#

I'll just wait for the MKIV and share the box with a friend.
Much less hassle

#

Thanks for your input tho :)

upbeat bear
jolly helm
#

To help some here

#

HeadHunters Mk VI no Fw kit proof of concept.

chrome frost
#

where'd you get that combi-bolter?

jolly helm
#

You can add whatever you want. Primaris com system, primaris White Scars heads trophy, deathwatch grenade torso stuff.

spiral pond
#

(but for real - converting and kitbashing is a highly rewarding part of the hobby, and I would highly recommend folks pick up a cheap spare set of tacs and just cut em up and repose em. the first one will look like trash but by the time ya get to the tenth they'll start looking kinda cool, and it's a great hobby skill to have in the toolbox)

jolly helm
#

Big bonus is that if you magnetize you can play almost any combi weapon available.

spiral pond
#

Or just use some brass rod, if the diameter is chunky enough

jolly helm
#

Aswell.

#

You'll just need "melee" arms.

#

And a good chunck of cutting and gluing.

spiral pond
#

Which are pretty easy to get, since it's p much the same pattern as the arms that come in the sternguard kit. deathwatch arms also work.

jolly helm
#

Right one, not left.

#

But definitely

spiral pond
#

Left works fine after filling in the words, but that's probably a Level Two kitbash

upbeat bear
#

I do kitbash and I believe you all!

But there's some stuff I ain't gonna touch.
I'm happy I at least magnetise my AT weapons

jolly helm
#

For the Multi Melta you can use Devastator without a doubt.

#

For the dagger i'm using MkIV "melee weapons"

spiral pond
#

that's not a powah daggah, this is a powah daggah

jolly helm
#

But if you have money, Splintered Fangs multiple small daggers and vials of poison will do the trick for sure.

jolly helm
muted bobcat
#

Dunno about how the scale would look, but u can cut off the hand/knife parts at least. Might even come separate

undone eagle
#

The arms on those do have the knives attached, but yeah you can just cut the hands off

jolly helm
#

Second HH

#

Pretty easy to convert and it does not cost an aweful lot of money

chrome frost
#

unfortunately, tartaros are sold out everywhere i look

#

probably going to use the cataphract Combis

jolly helm
#

Shame you got 10 Cataphractii in the AoD box.

#

:p

chrome frost
#

Do they just become bits though? What can I do with them after i steal their combis

jolly helm
#

Dual PC ?

#

Doing as I did

#

Like this

#

Using Volkite Charger of the special weapons kit to make either Lerneans or Command Squad with Volkite

#

Nothing is an issue when you have a big enough bitz box :p

chrome frost
#

oh... so unlike the box Contemptor, the Cataphracts are actually multi-build

#

For context, I was building the conteptor when halfway through i found out i could not go Melta and Chain fist because those arent in the box.

spiral pond
#

You can still go chainfist, folks have been using chain-bayonets as the fingers for them for years now

chrome frost
muted bobcat
#

Like Raeven says, “Nothing is an issue if you have a big enough bitz box”

#

My first multimeltas where a frankenstein of bolters and the pintle mounted vehicle multimeltas.

chrome frost
#

yeah... im needning multimeltas for my HHs and don't really know where to A. find any or B. Kitbash from

jolly helm
spiral pond
#

nowadays, my multimelta suggestion would just be wait a month or so for the other heavy weapon pack to come out

#

they'll be cheap as hell online cause everyone will be buying the lascannons and volkites

jolly helm
#

Wait a month is good. If you need 1 you have a multi Melta on any vehicle sprue. As in "The Spartan"

#

Or Kratos.

#

Or Rhino... :P

muted bobcat
#

Lol

spiral pond
#

yeah, folks will be like "please, xxth legion, take our multimeltas"

muted bobcat
jolly helm
#

Waiiiiit a minute.

umbral summit
#

Are Mor Deythan worth a damn in Coils of the Hydra?

left herald
#

eh

#

just take HH

umbral summit
#

Aye. Since I already play Ultramarines I’m suzerain sick. Torn between Dawnbreakers and Dark Furies as some kind of mobile hammer unit. Suggestions?

left herald
#

I'm a huge fan of all the Dark Angels units

#

Iron Warriors Iron Circle if you want a squad he can join which keeps his T high

umbral summit
#

Run mega terminator list with Lernaean terminators and Cenobium

left herald
#

Space Wolves have a cool Terminator unit

#

and ofc Firedrakes

chrome frost
#

Are running combi meltas worth it in HH squads? Since, as i understand it, you lose the banestrike

left herald
#

Yeah I wouldn't take combis

#

But I would take the Multimelta

chrome frost
#

thanks

jolly helm
#

Question : power claw Headhunters sergent, it's a bad idea right.

#

I mean it brings nothing and claw isn't Breaching.

earnest eagle
#

How do power daggers work do they give me an extra attack

jolly helm
#

But that styyyyyyyle...

jolly helm
#

Then you have your answer.

earnest eagle
#

No

jolly helm
#

Well, if they are not Specialist weapon, they are like any regular weapons

#

And thus give you +1 attack if wieilded... Wielded... Weil... Fack...

#

With another weapon.

#

As in bolt pistol.

#

5 HH indeed dish out 21 attacks on charge.

#

Which is... Big.

#

10 combi bolters shots then charge what remains

#

Mayyyybe even terminators can be killed.

chrome frost
jolly helm
#

3 ?

#

Wait HH don't have bolt pistols ??

chrome frost
#

they do. but they only have 1 attack base

#

1+ charge+Pistol = 3

jolly helm
#

Oh.

#

The more i check about them the worse they become.

chrome frost
#

Yeah... you'd think they'd at least have 2 attacks base. but GW doesnt like Headhunters apparently

jolly helm
#

Mor Deythan are vastly superiour

#

2 attacks, 2 wounds.

#

Headhunters are crap

#

Like, none of the AL special units are remotly good.

#

C- at most. Well at least I'll have an awesome Squad converted. Maybe veterans. Too bad they can't take Banestrike combi.

chrome frost
jolly helm
#

Only bolter :/

#

Not combi bolters.

earnest eagle
#

So are power daggers worth taking if I can already give my Sargent's melee weapons

chrome frost
jolly helm
#

I gave it to all my tactical sarg.

#

4 attack Initiative 5 on charge stat wise kill the opposite sarg before he can strike most of the time.

chrome frost
jolly helm
#

Can't wound a dread with a dagger though

chrome frost
#

powersfist

jolly helm
#

Dagger + PF ?

chrome frost
#

yes

#

i cant read or type today

#

i'd recommend a powerfist and power dagger on all your sgts so they can handle anything that gets thrown at them

earnest eagle
#

So does the charge give me an extra attack or does the dagger because if he already has a powerfist what does the dagger do

jolly helm
earnest eagle
#

Can vehicles shoot in combat

umbral summit
chrome frost
#

the powerfist is unwieldy, so if you choose to fight with it, your go at inititive 1. however, the powerfist is really good at hurting dreadnoughts which have become rather popular

jolly helm
earnest eagle
#

I did but I couldn't find anything

umbral summit
jolly helm
#

They can EXPLODE !!

#

Kaboom

umbral summit
#

tfw there are too many choices for rewards of treachery and I don’t just want to run suzies

jolly helm
#

Firedrakes are cool. Better Lernies in the Idea.

#

Dark Fury are very awesome.

#

If you don't play Mobius Configuration (which you should not as it is unfun as heck), you Can play Gal Vorbak.

chrome frost
#

i like the idea of gal Vorbak, but theyre just too expensive

umbral summit
#

Dark furies do sound super fun. If I’m not running coils, is a 10 man squad ideal?

jolly helm
#

And as some people like it here, if you feel bastardy, tax yourself of a Praevian and steal Perturabo his Circle.

#

Or be a man of culture and steal Osiron Dreadnought or a squad of Sekhmet.

#

Dark Fury do sound cool.

umbral summit
#

Also VII is a stupid number, and I don’t respect it

IMG_2119.jpg
chrome frost
#

what are the dark fury

jolly helm
#

I like the Idea of Palatin Blades because of 2+ save but they can't Jump pack anymore :'(

jolly helm
umbral summit
jolly helm
#

They are pretty descent honestly.

umbral summit
#

BS5 for some unknown reason

chrome frost
#

ooh... neat

jolly helm
#

In a more jump pack oriented AL army they would do Wonder.

umbral summit
#

Unless quartermaster is drunk

jolly helm
#

I think it is.

#

Lemee check

#

WS 5 for deathdeler

#

Chosen I mean

umbral summit
#

Chooser of the Slain is WS5

#

15pt upgrade available to two more boys

jolly helm
#

So 3 Chooser ?

#

Yeah I think it is worth.

umbral summit
#

305pts for big swingin hog unit

#

Choosers have uh….. 5A on the charge

dense plover
#

Trying to figure what bayonets to use.

umbral summit
dense plover
#

Bet

umbral summit
#

Shred is so friggin good on line infantry

dense plover
#

Yea and I dont see the vexilla and vox draw either

#

But I’m also a noob

umbral summit
#

Glue em on the unit and try a few games with em

#

Nuncio vox is tasty if you run barrage weapons

#

Vexilla is a good all rounder gear if you have the points

dense plover
#

I’ll probably build them and then just buy another box of mk vi

clear bluff
#

Are Word Bearers decent enough for Rewards of Treachery? I just like their style

muted bobcat
#

Their gal vorbak is

clear bluff
#

That's my fave so that's great

plain warren
#

Should I go 3 or 4 chainfists on tyrant siege termies 🤔

jolly helm
#

Why would you even go with Chainfists on them ?

plain warren
#

You hardly just sit back with them

#

Seems like a waste of power fists

green roost
#

Chainfists or only really worth it if you're going after Vehicles

#

Maybe give them 1

plain warren
#

One on the sergeant probably works 3 attacks

muted bobcat
#

Same, just the sarge to make it even points

#

I hate the random 5 in the end

plain warren
#

It’s also a non specialist weapon so do you get 4 attacks because you technically have a basic close combat weapon on top of that

muted bobcat
#

Unfortunately Nope, tyrants dont have an extra ccw.

plain warren
#

Are all models not considered to have one?

muted bobcat
#

If a model does not have a melee weapon listed on their profile, treat them as having one.

green roost
#

Default CCWs are considered to be replaced by any actual weapon you give them

muted bobcat
#

So if theres no pistols/cc weapons on a profile, then they have the base
S user AP - atk

#

Think the kind of stuff you would use if you dont have a real melee weapon in a fight. E.g. Rifle butts, fists, kicks, headbutts

green roost
#

Stern Glances

plain warren
#

So if you really wanted to you can’t fight at initiative then

muted bobcat
muted bobcat
#

The only instance is if you use the rule where you dont have anything that can wound your target

plain warren
#

I mean you can’t chose to not use your power fist and use your ccw

muted bobcat
#

Ah yeas

#

You cant choose not to use the PF, if thsts your only ccw listed

green roost
#

But then you would be wasting your Power Fist as you can't bormally split attacks between multiple weapons

#

Power Fists/Chain Fists rely on you being tough enoigh to survive being hit first
They also work great against Vehicles

plain warren
#

Yah I see it now I found ccw in the rule book

#

I could have swore I was told before I didn’t have to use a power fist or something

muted bobcat
#

Might be before you were thinking of the PF and Power dagger combo

plain warren
#

For 1 in a 1000 situation where you need to try and ping 1 wound at initiative

#

Nah this was 6th Ed or something

muted bobcat
#

Since dagger was specialist weapon before, you get the +1 attack bonus. And then you can choose to use dagger to atk at Initiative or fist to hit hard

muted bobcat
left herald
#

Nah Mor deythan can go swivel

#

Headhunters are where it's at

#

5pts cheaper base per model, native pDagger, Infiltrate and Precision Shots. Banestrike way better than shotguns. Upgrades mostly cheaper.

#

Fatal strike is nice but really they're too expensive for not a lot of goodness

jolly helm
#

Multi Melta Headhunter/Veteran

#

(tell me Vet can't take multi Melta please)

strong zealot
#

vets can't no

#

well

#

one in 5 can i think?

jolly helm
#

My books are in the shelf and I'm in bed.

#

I'll check tomorrow

jolly helm
#

Well, Veterans Indeed can't take multimelta

#

Thouuuugh the picture used under the entry depicted a multi Melta.

#

Fack me.

umbral summit
#

Into the headhunters he goes

jolly helm
#

Well, I'll have to play a squad of 5 it seems

#

Greaaaaat...

#

With a point balance to Mor Deythan like, they need a buff to 2 wounds and 2 attacks each

umbral summit
#

Thoughts? Using the models easily available to me.

#

Not sure if MSU is the way to go for Headhunters, but there definitely is a discount for going 1x10 as opposed to 2x5

grizzled beacon
#

Anybody got any good recommendations for cool alternative Headhunter helmets?

solemn dragon
lost sapphire
# umbral summit

Land raider proteus is 220 points, not 205 like Quartermaster states. You can adjust that urself luckily. Also I believe the power dagger + fist on sarges is a waste as they cant utilize both for extra attack anymore. Imo pick one or the other

jolly helm
#

2x5 with 2 melta is much better.

lost sapphire
#

Costs more and outside of twice the melta, they die and wont beat a tac squad in combat anymore. Theres definitely an argument for it, I think 10 is a solid choice still

jolly helm
#

I think not.

#

But I don't like Headhunters.

#

If you see them for something else than a suicide squad I think you miss their point.

#

Their point is to target a unit with a character, Apothecary, Centurion, Praetor

#

And just kill it.

#

Then dies.

#

For 165pts you can have 1 Multi Melta and 4 Combi Melta, and you can either one shot a Landraider/Spartans or a "bigger" Character.

#

Praetor with Mastercrafted Parangon Blades are 160pts.

#

You are instant Death.

solemn dragon
#

one thing i don't understand, why whould they give head hunters a multimelter? they aren't an AT unit and a heavy AT weapon for a stealthbased assassin squad is kinda weird

jolly helm
#

They are what they need to be.

#

They can hunt important thing. Sometimes your target is deep inside ceramite.

#

So you need to crack that nut open;

#

But yeah, Headhunters can take Multi Melter.

#

But Veterans can't.

spiral pond
jolly helm
#

Yeah.

#

And they have such a big conversion potential.

#

I mean, I love my POCs of them and will surely play a squad of 5 actually.

solemn dragon
#

in the end it will be used to kill hqs, for that i much rather have something thematic like a desintegrator that is made to kill what ever you aim it at (and maybe even the user)

jolly helm
#

Just, they deserved to be treated like Mor Deythan : 2w, 2a each.

#

Gosh I really thought they had 2 attacks each so 21 attacks of daggers for 5 on charge

#

But no, only 16.