Horus heresy 3.0 rule book leak

[desert girder]

There is a bounty out for content creators to turn in leekers.

[balmy creek]

I'm going on my holibobs this Saturday, I was gently stressing of hoe to preorder as I'll be rat arse by the time the preorder opens up. But now I don't have to

[tulip garden]

got to use imager here no direct posts

[polar wadi]

A few pages of the loyalist liber dropped. Not looking good chief

[daring yacht]

Don’t know what that is

[wraith pasture]

I'd be happy with the forge lord, mortificator, praevain being condensed down into one profile with like... an upgrade tree that turns it into any of the three

[rose chasm]

Now Sigs has rules to match his model

[tidal harness]

Turn in 5 leakers and you get a Freeeee legion fellblade 😜

[night barn]

Losing the Delegatus is tough. My favorite HQ for ZM

[celest lintel]

The best of the alpha legions spy’s could or could not potentially find a whole imgur that hypothetically has all the loyal rules

[daring yacht]

No Other fist rules have been posted

[digital igloo]

Perhaps will return, there? That's where he origininated. lol

[barren elbow]

Can someone leak me some iron hands

[rose chasm]

You won the legion rules

Stayed the same

[desert girder]

Being an alpha legion content creator must feel so cool right now

[short tiger]

Raven Guard would beg to differ in terms of "winning"

[kindred ledge]

IH and RG, the black armor marines

[barren elbow]

Is that good?

[rose chasm]

Losing sauce and getting op rules is whatever overall

[ashen pendant]

It's consistent at least.

[tidal harness]

Can’t wait to see how they’ve butchered my boys

[desert girder]

The only time being forgotten by GW actually was a good thing

[fathom hemlock]

shame about the forge lord unless that got shifted to legacies

[night barn]

Good call

[kindred ledge]

"Do you have evidence for your claim, and am I with or against you?"

[barren elbow]

What about immortals rules

[teal basalt]

He might have been folded into the praevian

[digital igloo]

Truly, the first time their rules have at least applied to most of their units. lol

[tidal harness]

“I leaked it, now prove it”

Mic Drop

[balmy creek]

Apparently death guard are shit?

[onyx condor]

Depending on if he gets a machinator array.

[rose chasm]

Better since they are more unique now with having volkites

Since generic breachers lost the option

[lilac wasp]

5+ from what we know

[acoustic gale]

yes, but what about their rules?

[short tiger]

Did you miss the "from what we know" part

[barren elbow]

Unless they lost volkites

[balmy creek]

Right listen here you little yellow blob

[digital igloo]

Do we know that? The Breacher kit isn't even out.

[lilac wasp]

No more volkites, we need you to buy disintegrators now

[nocturne oasis]

via leaker they lost the option

[barren elbow]

Immortals aren't like breachers entirely

[opal walrus]

Any leaks on the sons of Horus?

[tidal harness]

Fuckin hell they really are pushing disintegrators this edition

[worn hound]

Just a personal project

[digital igloo]

Ah, honestly, that was kind of a weird addition in the 2.0 libers.

[summer bloom]

the leaker said breachers don't have volkites anymore 😦 i sad

[barren elbow]

Separate kit and thry expendable

Yea tonnes of disintegrators i really want a veteran assault squad now though lol

[tidal harness]

Feels like every data sheet mentions disintegration by name

[thorny jacinth]

"The rarest and most secretest of weapon, even the Emperor hates them... buy them now for ALL units"

[celest lintel]

There is an imgur Easter egg hunt
Go forth loyal sons
Like Vulcans kids looking for his relics

[daring yacht]

What was leakers handle so we can search for all
Comments

[barren elbow]

https://imgur.com/a/8oqENvc

[tidal harness]

My veterans are fucked now tbh, made em all with chainswords, a single plasma and heavy bolter then rest boltguns,

Ergo rules don’t work anymore

[summer bloom]

now we're just waiting for traitor book to fall off a truck hehe

[digital igloo]

Possibly will now work as a command squad?

[wraith plank]

speaking of which, it looks like the majority of units in liber book are either ones with plastic models, or specialized legion units with resin

[kindred ledge]

Careful what you wish for

[wraith pasture]

I was hoping the Legion veteran assault squad was gonna finally be the unit that would allow you to take sword and board but it looks like they're stuck with jetpacks

[opaque verge]

my locals are having a release day pizza party i kinda want to avoid NL spoilers now till then so we cann all be disappointed together XD

[lilac wasp]

This Imgur makes me hate Raven Guard. WHY SHOULD THEY GET ALL OF THIS

[digital igloo]

Have you counted? RG, IW, Salamanders, and EC units are all-resin.

[kindred ledge]

(PLS GW, you already screwed over my Mongols, leave my Alpha Legion alone)

[nocturne oasis]

dont make me scroll the front page of imgur, please

[wraith plank]

the only one that's a total loss with buyable model seem to be the destroyer squads?

[crystal granite]

Unfortunately, pepperoni has been dropped from the menu but may be eventually available in the legacy menu.

[digital igloo]

'cause they kept being given dysfunctional legion rules, in 1.0 and 2.0?

[tulip garden]

you can do it

[kindred ledge]

No bike characters (and possible not even in White Scars)

[digital igloo]

Is that the stupid secret menu where you order a fish filet on a Big Mac and call it Surf and Turf?

[tidal harness]

Honestly these leaks have just put me off a lot more

[wraith pasture]

OK where are people getting these additional leaks from

[ancient robin]

sorry lads, please don't post book screenshots

[wraith plank]

probably 4chan

[acoustic gale]

love how the WS spear doesn't have an initiative bonus

[nocturne oasis]

poasted to 4chn

[polar wadi]

The chan

[ancient robin]

if ya must take it to dms or imgur

[wraith pasture]

Could you pm me a 4chan link please I do not engage the chan

[kindred ledge]

What this guy said

[tulip garden]

would also love a pm

[onyx condor]

Yeah. The core rules may have been something outside of the bloated mess. But holy shit the liber really killed my interest.

[wraith plank]

just go to /tg/ then search horus heresy, it's the first thread

[polar wadi]

Bing. you're looking for /hhg/ specifically

[teal basalt]

Maybe I’ll wake up to proof these were all ai generated rage bait and the liber is actually peak

[tidal harness]

Yeah its making me give up tbh

[wintry delta]

Same can i have the link?

[polar wadi]

God that would be so funny

[tranquil epoch]

I agree with the link requests

[short tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/dreams-vec50-gif-21829847

[digital igloo]

@coarse birch please put on an Imgur?

[polar wadi]

Literally just go to 4chan, navigate to /tg/ and Ctrl+F "/HHG/"

[jovial otter]

As someone said before, this is just so kinda sad? The core rules up until this had some good and some bad but I could vibe with what they had showed off.

Now this comes in and flips the table x(

[kindred ledge]

Alpha Legion count as 2+ further away only during volley attacks allegedly, Oof

[teal basalt]

That has to be a meme

[surreal hornet]

I dont believe it given theres been no indication heretic legions leaked

[lilac wasp]

Ah yes, the legión famed for charging

[balmy creek]

Lol hope none of you have ray gun seekers cuz on the sgt can have one now

[wraith plank]

ah, would would make sense that dominator from IW are gone as well

[kindred ledge]

I hope it is. If isn't, GW screwed both my factions

[onyx condor]

Honestly. Imagine if the outrage is big enough GW actually has to make emergency changes.

[polar wadi]

Yeah it's wild. Like, i wasn't sold on the core rules but i could take them as an alternative to 2.0, but these leaks man. As mentioned, never underestimate GW's ability to ruin an opportunity.

[teal basalt]

It won’t be, it never is

[kindred ledge]

Oh nvm, it was a comedic question, Jesus I almost had a heart-attack

[jovial otter]

If you mean combi-disi, that one was at least seeker sgt and character only even before

[primal wadi]

Anybody know what the Legion Auxiliary Detachments are at the top of the table of contents?

[onyx condor]

My breacher unit is flat out ilelgal now because they all have volkites.

[polar wadi]

It saved DW in 40k. 🤷‍♂️

[formal pivot]

@celest lintel mine too

[teal basalt]

If we are lucky, 4.0 won’t remove more, that’s as far as we can be optimistic

[ancient robin]

i think the closest thing to that is the votann codex release, and they did change that a bunch

[trim seal]

to answer your question from eailer yes you can have jump packs on centurions preators and optae

[wraith plank]

I'm guessing breacher with volkite will be some kind of command squad upgrade

[onyx condor]

Barely. Like it would have to be serious outrage to get GW to recall and delay both libers.

[polar wadi]

Votann and saving Deathwatch from Imperial Agents hell

[jovial otter]

Won't happen. GW will ride out the wave and bank on new players who have no reason to be angry because they didn't lose anything.

[last bone]

Maybe we'll get legacies volkite breachers?

[digital igloo]

And also, it seems, the Moritat MUST have a jump pack.

[ancient robin]

but that wasn't the book that was change it was just a massive PDF anr FAQ

[polar wadi]

Just like they did with the 10th ed firstborn squattings

[trim seal]

thats whatever imo the only models ever for it were jumppack

[onyx condor]

Or do emergency faq. But yeah. Part of the problem with being an established fan means you're going to get fucked.

[wraith plank]

well, the new edition is not only there to please us old folks, it's gw's hope to attract newbies as well

[celest lintel]

Yep

[teal basalt]

I was wondering how common retinues were going to be, I wasn’t expecting they’d be a literal haven

[nocturne oasis]

it takes over a year to just print and localise a book like that, its not getting recalled

[thorny jacinth]

Black Templar fans sending GW emails for years made them do s big refresh...and then 10th took away all the options for their really cool kits

[onyx condor]

Hence why I said or a faq.

[wraith plank]

guess gw thinks less option is good for the newbs

[teal basalt]

We are long long long past what an FAQ can fix

[trim seal]

2.0 is scuffed 100%

[onyx condor]

I've had to block someone who literally argues that less option is good.

[lilac wasp]

But everyone told me it will be fixed with legacies!

[kindred ledge]

Not understanding that a good bit of people ran from 40k BECAUSE of that

[formal pivot]

If Palatine blades loose jump packs again...

[wraith plank]

palatine blade is definitely loosing jump pack

[digital igloo]

FAQ? No. But Palatine Aquilae style legacy patches? For sure.

[lilac wasp]

Someone in my local discord told me to stop complaining and just buy new models

[teal basalt]

But they can’t do that for printed books

[kindred ledge]

I also expect Sun Killers to be in the Legacies thing

[jovial otter]

40k and AoS were already sacrificed on the altar of simplification. Why do this here too? 30k was a safety net for many who came here because it isn't boxlocked and stripped down

[wanton kiln]

NGL, I would rather have an edition with less shit (options) - AT LAUNCH - if that means they've got the core of it fucking nailed down.

As long as we then saw those options return over time, I think that'd probably be okay. I do want to see how the core of the edition actually works in gameplay.

[wraith plank]

right now it seems liber books only offers units with either plastic models, or resin that are still available for purchase, destroyers seem to be an exception

[onyx condor]

Makes me wonder if the real tourists are the ones who WANT all games to be gutted down with no options "for the new players".

[digital igloo]

That happened in 2.0. lol They had to bring it back as a new unit in the PDF.

[onyx condor]

I'm honestly putting more trust in panoptica 3.0 at this point.

[trim seal]

Yeah walrus ill second that

[lime ingot]

Why did the remove my illiastus cannons as hss

[lilac wasp]

At least those guys play the game

[dire gale]

Im pretty sure some leaks said it was just gonna start like this with options added back as they made actual weapon sprues for them

[carmine echo]

Can someone send me the PDF/imgur link, can only find rules for SW and RG

[wraith plank]

part of me speculates destroyers are going to come out with the refreshed mkiv

[trim seal]

new rules for core give people more options for event running anyways

[onyx condor]

At least with AoS it kind of works. 40k though? It really feels the pain.

[digital igloo]

They can do just what they did in 2.0 and release deleted options as new units in a PDF.

[kindred ledge]

It's more of a GW doing a "oh that be what our focus groups of 40k want" 40k players don't tend to migrate from 40k unless they don't like the game anymore.

[wintry delta]

Wait librarian and other consuls are locked out of termi armor now?

[nocturne oasis]

thats basically all we have in screenshots

[daring yacht]

Did the terminator praetors get posted here yet

[fathom hemlock]

Not really down for rebuying existing rules.
Hopefully the legacies pdf is big.

[wanton kiln]

I will also say that, yes, pano conversations will be happening in the background to try figure out what we're doing into 3.0. Don't expect us to have stuff out on launch (lol) but we are making plans slowly.

[wraith pasture]

Wait who was out there taking a moritat that didn't have one.

This is like taking the moritat but giving them a power weapon right?

Like yeah it's nice you can do it but why?

[polar wadi]

I.E. me

[rose chasm]

Can you dm pls

[carmine echo]

ah okay thx

[surreal snow]

That’s all we have images for apart from a few things on /tg/

[wraith plank]

along with random journal tactica #2413213

[golden hazel]

I'll save judgement untill after I've played at least 5 games

[kindred ledge]

That seems likely ye

[jovial otter]

Zone mortalis, perhaps?

[fathom hemlock]

Pretty sure RG and SW are the only legion leaks

[onyx condor]

If I ever start a company. Anybody trying to cater to focus groups in my company is immediately getting fired.

[carmine echo]

Anyone know anything more on Blood Angels?

[kindred ledge]

Yeah this, but some of these are some very bitter pills to swallow

[wanton kiln]

sensible take

[digital igloo]

I mean, I guess if you put one in a IH Moritat in a Spartan with Immortals?

[lethal wadi]

Looks like assault squads can take chain axes now, thats very cool

[wraith pasture]

Sigismund leaked and Dawn breakers partial unit entry leaked as well

[fathom hemlock]

Beyond the contents page, no.

[wraith plank]

so far I'm still very excited trying out the new core rule, it seems really solid, less options definitely sucks though, but it's not like I have a lot of them in the first place

[sick nimbus]

They're half of em ye

[kindred ledge]

Focus groups only work on general consumer products, such as food. Not complex tabletop and boardgames

[teal basalt]

That “as long as” is doing COLOSSAL lifting though

[digital igloo]

Or with other Legion specific Destroyer units, like Interremptors?

[golden hazel]

Also we have to remember that the rules for 2.0 arent going anywhere

[surreal snow]

+1 s on the charge, dawn breakers only have spears but sgt gets perdition weapon, angel tears no longer get assault cannons

[wintry delta]

Waiiit veteran with sniper is gone ?????

[lilac wasp]

Mortises come with jump packs

[worn hound]

Can you pass the link along to other 4chan illiterates plz 🥺🤲

[onyx condor]

Yeah, when have focus groups ever contributed anything good to complex things?

[wraith plank]

it seem to be incorporated into 'seeker squad'

[wintry delta]

Ok makes sense but damn its weird

[digital igloo]

You must be a 2.0er. The unit entry is much older than the models.

[rose chasm]

Yes

[teal basalt]

In 2.0 they made a seperate profile, but I’m not getting my hopes up we get a seperate profile for consuls with weapons or breachers with volkite, or vets with melee weapons

[onyx condor]

Yeah I don't mind vets losing snipers since Seekers already have that niche.

[formal pivot]

Yes but also no one wants to wait that long to use their armies either.

[open berry]

I thought they said they were going to give us more list building options, not reduce them

[sick nimbus]

1st edition introduced a lot of new things. Second Ed introduced very few new things. 3rd Ed will trickle down what 1st and 2nd Ed made

[digital igloo]

Just run them as Seekers.

[polar wadi]

List building is more flexible, but what goes in the list is less

[thorny jacinth]

They also said 10th wasn't simple

[wanton kiln]

i mean, look at 2.0 - i had to wait months to play mech lol

i coped

most other mech players did too

[opaque verge]

but assault vets do get melee options, they get access to the sergeant weapon list, unless ur talking about tac vets

[wraith plank]

it's not like I've ever consider equipping vets with sniper rifles in the first place, especially when seekers exist

[tulip garden]

I will say I do really like the vet assault marines

[digital igloo]

More list options (detachments more flexible than FoC), but fewer wargear options. 😦

[teal basalt]

I am clearly talking about tac vets

[onyx condor]

Yeah. Honestly depending on how Mech is I might just start an army of them instead of Marines.

[fair coral]

Centurion command squads now, baby

[wintry delta]

So rip:
Scout
Veteran with lot of weapons
Destroyer

We gain:
Assault vet ?

Is that all or i miss some stuff ?

[kindred ledge]

The Vet version of the troops are good ye

[wraith plank]

my only complain is there's no assault vet on foot, that seems like a hindsight, and tactical vets with shield

[lilac wasp]

Ok? The new unit entry for Moritat has jump packs with no ability to get rid of said jump pack

[golden hazel]

It was the waac option because of relentless

[opaque verge]

just wanted to check cause alot of ppl have missed that assault vets get access to the list.

i really don't think they needed to split the vet profile

[open berry]

I like that my Legion identity is now just nothing. Why did they remove night fighting

[delicate mist]

Obligatory fuck pardo

[carmine echo]

we might get these in the legacies PDF so not RIP just yet

[digital igloo]

Spamming them in mid 1.0 was way too common, when they had the Sniper rule on their Boltguns.

[nocturne oasis]

I actually dont think theyre more flexible, haveyou tried listbuilding, its actually pretty restrictive with a lot of forced choices

[wintry delta]

Good for all the rest of the game

[onyx condor]

Vet Breacher would have been a good compromise for losing volkites on regular breachers.

[daring yacht]

Where is the chat before Pardo jumped in

[kindred ledge]

Assault Vets with free Chainaxes will murder

[quiet pier]

"But hey, remember you have routing flamers now" GW

[opaque verge]

its removed from core missions as caleld out in an article, it may exist elsewhere, and we will hopefully get rules to adjust. hold strong Fellow VIIIth

[open berry]

Bad for my enjoyment...

[indigo kiln]

if your legion identity hinged entirely on that you had bigger problems already

[upbeat tide]

@celest lintel have dark angels received any new wargear, like acid rounds? Also, what does stasis do in 3.0?

[digital igloo]

No place for two dead turns in a 4 turn game.

[open berry]

I dont recall Night Lords ever having rules that made me feel happy anyway

[ancient robin]

you would need to scroll up a ton, your best bet is searching that pardo or whatever person on the discord search feature then scrolling up

[wraith pasture]

Technically we also gained the augur command sqaud, the whirl wind and the guy that might be a aircraft specialist or something I can't remember his name

[wintry delta]

"My rule preventing all other army from playing the game is gone"

[kindred ledge]

I would rather see a bit of a power down of Terror Assault and un-fuck the NL special units

[indigo kiln]

Yeah sounds like you may wanna rehitch that wagon

[pale basalt]

are you really a 30k fanatic if you havent already read the whole chat?

[golden hazel]

Tbh people should only be posting requests and leaks in here, there's too much whining getting in the way of what people are actually looking for

[teal basalt]

Night fighting is the RG legion rule now

[open berry]

I remember 1.0 rules that made me want to blow my head off

[lunar rover]

Yea, i loved Eskaton imperative, but i'll not mourn it, it was unfun

[quiet pier]

Imagine inventing a problem and then making up an even worse solution, couldn't be GW

[wraith plank]

regardless if whatever gw is doing now really did bring more newb, Id actually be very fine with as is

[indigo kiln]

Do you LIKE Horus Heresy?

[digital igloo]

Yeah, because complicated challenge mechanics were what the large-scale 3k points game needed. lol

[wintry delta]

Only when he can prevent the opponent from even playing the game and have any actual turn playing the game it seems

[pale basalt]

i think the challenge part is cool

[open berry]

Yeah i do like it ofcourse.

[golden hazel]

Please. Half the people here haven't played a game in over a year

[wraith plank]

as opposed to see who fails that thunderhammer invul, but at least the challenge is limited to commanders

[lilac wasp]

The core rules are great. The libers have rained on many parades

[kindred ledge]

I played 3 months ago☝️
(And got stomped by Word Bearers)

[teal basalt]

The real question of this whole edition is what have we as a player base gained from 3.0?

Because all I’m seeing is the damage characteristics and gambits

[wintry delta]

Also: goodbye 2+ sergents you wont be missed

[digital igloo]

Major internal balance issues and annoying meta, for sure. Lots of the "take this best option" podcasts and the like.

[wraith plank]

flyer rules are cool, and that damnable artificer spam is gone

[open berry]

Im specifically talking about Night Lords legion rules

[pale basalt]

the non human armies have likely gotten army building that isnt complete shit

[lilac wasp]

Reposting

[delicate mist]

I've played about 40 2.0 games I reckon, I imagine that's higher than a good amount of people here

[digital igloo]

Egg men!

[kindred ledge]

Which is actually even more frustrating, because faction rules are far easier to fix than game system problems

[fathom hemlock]

artificer sgts going is good news

[sick nimbus]

All books at launch

[wraith plank]

since artificer spam is gone, wargear options is now a lot more flexible, good for build flexibility which needs to be tackled eventually

[teal basalt]

Brother if this hammer is hitting marines this hard I wouldnt take anything for granted

[pale basalt]

i can already say that if my group goes back to 2.0 i will keep whatever changes they made to our command squads in 3.0

[carmine echo]

Can any one of you negative nellies sum up why the libers are such a catastrophe?

[lilac wasp]

I just hit my 20th game in the last year and boy am I bummed

[opaque verge]

rookie numbers snoozi, but quite a few XD

[nocturne oasis]

honestly the non marine factions look like they get great options

[dire gale]

The real question is how many options have been lost that actually mattered? Like if you take the combat shield away from Praetors and Centurions nothing is actually lost at all

[daring yacht]

These rules are like the flavored sparkling water of 1st and 2nd. They taste like the memory of a strawberry. Absolutely no juice.

[pale basalt]

it cant get worse than hot steaming garbage that was liber imperium

[delicate mist]

I think I probably played about 300 games of 1.0 😂

[digital igloo]

LaCroix grows on you after a while. lol

[opaque verge]

memory of a fucking strawberry that's great XD

[wraith plank]

all the units without purchasable models are gone, except destroyer squads, which can still be purcahsed but are gone regardless

[kindred ledge]

1. Lack of a rounded ruleset for more than one Legion.
2. No bike characters it seems so far (which in particular screws White Scars)
3. Removal of weapon options on units

[quiet pier]

A lot, I just lost 20 breachers that were my core and one of the units I was building my force around

[delicate mist]

Why bummed? Just because of the stuff we have seen?

[digital igloo]

Same with Legion Malcadores. I have 6 in my White Scars. lol

[opaque verge]

now that's some numbers getting up there with me now.

[carmine echo]

so what? we haven't seen the legacy pdf? which is the whole point of a legacy pdf

[wraith plank]

but keep in mind we'll be getting legacy unit pdf on day one, so I'll keep my doomer self in check, for now

[fathom hemlock]

Gone from the main rulebook.

[daring yacht]

The took away Dawnbreaker swords

[lilac wasp]

Yeah the core of my space wolves are stalkers (gone from liber) and then my TH+LC Varagyr (now illegal)

[carmine echo]

I mean they sucked anyway sooo..

[native scarab]

I think I may be quite literally the only person who modeled those.

[wintry delta]

The page count seems to indicate legion have page pf rules

[barren elbow]

In my 2-3 years i think i have done near 150 games

[fathom hemlock]

considering how many units got added in exceptional battles,ngl the book is already huge...

[kindred ledge]

Pf rules? Or do you mean pdf rules?

[delicate mist]

Ah 😦 is there anything that you do think you'll enjoy going forward?maybe try shift your focus to that?

[dire gale]

And we get like 3 more units day one from the journal

[digital igloo]

None of those are in the Libers.

[wintry delta]

Page of rules sorry, the page count have a big gap between armory and the previous pages

[wraith plank]

yeah, still, have to wait till they are released, and I don't see myself buying the tac journals anyway

[sick nimbus]

Journal should've been part of the real rules

[carmine echo]

how many legions have we seen alot of rules for?

the bike characters sure it fucks WS

I can get why some people get mad over volkites not being on breachers but cmon nobody will care if you show up with volkite breachers and play them as bolters

[delicate mist]

No effrit sad

[daring yacht]

How tf do people not remember 1st edition

[digital igloo]

Pages of reprinted art.

[wintry delta]

We seen centurion page ? Cause it could buy update right ?

[nocturne oasis]

what actually kind of bums me out is that if you really leaned into a theme in 2.0, you are definately more likely to have been screwed regarding wargear losses

[kindred ledge]

Hmmm, so you suggest that parts have been taken out?

[carmine echo]

I played 1st editiob BA and I do remember them, but that was a long time ago, can't dwell on that

[wraith pasture]

Why are people saying bike characters don't exist anymore

We haven't seen the profiles for these characters yet right

[thorny jacinth]

Not the point. If you built, painted and played those for years with no issue. Why take them away

[digital igloo]

They were teenagers playing 40k or Pokemon at the time. lol

[wraith pecan]

How have you lost 20 breachers?

[wraith plank]

seems like breacher can no longer take all vokite

[nocturne oasis]

people were playing1st ed 4 years ago

[quiet pier]

Because I had 20 volkite breachers, now they're not valid in 3e

[daring yacht]

1st edition was three years ago lol Spears have sucked for 80% of the game

[kindred ledge]

Mor Deythan lost Volkite combi's.
5-ish consuls are gone (Forgelords, Armistos etc)
Destroyers have been deleted

[teal basalt]

So the equation for our response is

“We haven’t seen X”

Where X is: the actual rules > the whole actual rules > the profiles > all the profiles > the legacy profiles > the next arcane journal > the new edition rules that will solve this.

[wraith pasture]

Playing is a strong word.

Most of us were pining for a community that would play heresy regularly

[carmine echo]

yes but some of us have played enough 3rd edition to not carea about 1st ed anymore

[left pond]

Leaker man said centurions only have a hand full of options and bikes weren't one of em

[digital igloo]

Probably plenty of early 20s on the server. Lots in the active local playgroup, who never played black book/1st red/2nd red/red rulebook editions.

[wraith pecan]

Damn, I hadn’t even seen that one - I’d been planning to make a Volkite army with DA Inductii and breachers (like a what if they actually had used Volkite instead of bolters)

[delicate mist]

Tbf mor deythan shouldn't have been giving volkite xD

[wraith plank]

hey, my entire city has zero hh player, have to drive 150km away for any potential hh games which I haven't bother doing in months

[onyx condor]

I think I only ever played 3.

[carmine echo]

Destroyers are probably in the legacy, maybe the consuls are aswell like the nullificator and warmonger and mor deythans always were a sniper squad so eh

[tulip garden]

I feel ya. I mean I played alot of 2.0 though I had to travel alot in my home province which thankfully mean't I got a metric shit ton of games even if my local scene dried up abit though LI did well.

[open berry]

Was 1st edition really 4 years ago? Surely not.

[nocturne oasis]

I have to get on a plane to play a decent game

[digital igloo]

They were better with rending combi-flamers, given it was once per game. lol

[wraith plank]

if whatever gw is going now will be beinging more players in my local store, so be it

[delicate mist]

Yeah true, I just feel that they should have been snipers rather than close assault

[wraith plank]

I'm sure legacy pdfs and future journal tactica will bring older units back

[wintry delta]

I dont see any breacher rule, do they lose weapon option?

[quaint torrent]

Color sections. It's where the art goes.

[carmine echo]

rending combi flamers was only 1st ed

[kindred ledge]

Being in the legacy PDF I would not exactly hate, but they had better not take out weapon options and re-add those in paid for Journals

[digital igloo]

I mean, I think I will be cool with them having 2x Sniper shots that does Critical Hits on 5+.

[silent yoke]

Do not post pictures

[wintry delta]

My b

[wraith pasture]

At least one or two of those pages will probably be a big splash page with the Legion logo and a summary of who they are and probably some lore content and some pictures of their armour and vehicle

[quiet pier]

The leaker has said they lost volkite chargers

[hard pewter]

has anyone completed the easter egg hunt yet?

[delicate mist]

As much as we may dislike the changes, do we think it will make newbies getting into it a bit easier? I would absolutely take a few Ls if it helped build a community, maybe drag some.people away from 40k

[digital igloo]

Volkite Combis was only 2nd edition.

[hard pewter]

personally I've never had much trouble getting people into 30k, the novels did most of the work. With them no longer being released it's hard to say

[carmine echo]

eh just pirate the journals

[pastel slate]

Probably not a hugely noticeable change imo

[wintry delta]

The gap go from 5 pages to 9
So 2 pages art
2 page iconography.
That leave at least 5 page before the armory for most legion

[kindred ledge]

That depends on how much flavour we end up losing. I didn't abandon 40k syndrome to find it again here

[digital igloo]

I mean, it is now less a game of "don't build the unit with the supplied parts"; I guess that makes collecting from the store easier? 30k was always a "source these weird bits" sort of affair.

[wraith pasture]

Ammitara exist in the legacy document and they have been doing just fine

It ain't that bad

[lilac wasp]

Remains to be seen. Maybe more slayers

[delicate mist]

Yeah that's fair, I have a lot of disgruntled 40k players over here I might have an easier time pushing people to 30k

[silent yoke]

@daring yacht you’re free to share your opinions via modmail

[wintry delta]

Sniper vet being gone mean amitara will eat good

[ancient robin]

hmmm i'm not too sure, it still doesn't feel like the wargame i would show to someone new to it all

[dire gale]

Ya thats kind of the thing they want to stop

[wraith pasture]

Ye.

I was just saying some of those pages are gonna be legion lore stuff.

[digital igloo]

If they exist! I hope they do, I converted but have yet to paint mine.

[kindred ledge]

That's trying to band-aid a problem. Removing main rules (sometimes to the point an army might not even work) to sell them back to you in bitesize chunks is very bad faith treatment of paying customers. The fact that "just pirate it" is the reply means there is a problem to begin witu

[tidal harness]

Yeah the friggin tactics journals take the piss,

[dire gale]

Are any of the units being added something we had before

[wraith plank]

I'll probably buy them if they aren't too expensive, and actually have people playing

[carmine echo]

I agree with you, but if people just pirate it and dont buy it they wont continue doing it

[wraith pasture]

I'm pretty sure they said that the stuff already legacy wouldn't disappear

[tidal harness]

Pay £16.50 for what is essentially an exemplary battle

[kindred ledge]

Remains to be seen, all I said was that I would be very annoyed if they did that

[marble sail]

Yeah nothing in the journals is old so far.. and they are optional

[native scarab]

They did.

[barren elbow]

Any more leaks on IH or just that same Legion rule

[wintry delta]

Absolutely but there is definitely some pages here not in the page index that contain rule (only reason it would vary between legion this much lol)

[wraith plank]

I'm already buying warhammer, that's a terrible enough financial decision in the first place

[fathom hemlock]

I thik there's 3 pages of general rules and armory for each legion. Well maybe except the DA but I haven't seen that, someone joking on 4chan that DA have stubborn but i dont know for sure

[delicate mist]

That's a fair point, I'm just thinking a conversation may go "if you're looking for something a bit more casual and narrative focus you could always give 30k a go?"

[nocturne oasis]

21 euro, 48 pages, softback

[dire gale]

Surprised they aren't following 40K there, anything past your codex gets put out for free

[thorny jacinth]

"Nobody bought the journals, clearly they didn't care about more options"

[marble sail]

We saw the index page its all new so far

[digital igloo]

I mean, I wonder? It isn't as though the secondary market isn't mostly parted out GW kits. They did use to run a bit service, way, way, back when, but recently have been selling a lot of upgrade kits.

[wraith plank]

huh, that's... better than I expected

[balmy creek]

On the plus side my rocket tank is gonna be splatting and pinning

[near hull]

DA trait is that their Ld/Cl/Int/WP can't be modified, apparently

[ancient robin]

honestly at a certain stage i might start recommending non GW games for that

[barren elbow]

What am i gonna do with my seekers

[wintry delta]

Da come first so they dont come aftee the art part

[kindred ledge]

Well, that's something at least.

Still, I hope I don't need to get a journal to make my bike/Land Raiders army even playable

[wraith plank]

seekers are still there?

[thorny jacinth]

Wonder what WB are getting then, that's kind of their schtick

[delicate mist]

Yeah I already do, infinity, trench crusade, moonstone are all great. But I adore the 30k setting.

[barren elbow]

Someone said no sniper vets

[wintry delta]

Yep in apex detachement with the vet

[near hull]

I saw something about +1 combat resolution, but didn't see it directly

[nocturne oasis]

throwing in silver bayonet here, always worth a go

[trim seal]

Nope in the recon section

[solemn oak]

has hereticus leaked? iron warriors specifically.

also, can someone explain to whats WRONG with the libers? I've been at work all day but everyone seems big sad

[daring yacht]

All of the legion traits are floating around a Heresy Hammer adjacent whatsapp or discord

[thorny jacinth]

Woof

[delicate mist]

Never tried that

[balmy creek]

+1 to combat resolution

[digital igloo]

Not that much worse than, say, the version of ZM you had to buy a White Dwarf for.

[ancient robin]

hmm maybe try to get them into some of the smaller fan made rules for smaller game sizes like civil war

[marble sail]

Only loyalist

[wraith plank]

lost all units that aren't in sale in official gw store, except destroyers, which are, but are gone anywya

[wintry delta]

I cant wait to see the index for the hereticus just to see if TS get a 200 page rule section

[kindred ledge]

Did Alpha Legion leak? We had a -2 to distances for volleys fake jumpscare, but

[delicate mist]

Got a link you could pm me?:)

[thorny jacinth]

but...but that's awful

[barren elbow]

Ima have to decide between veterans ir. Command squad god

[wintry delta]

So... just scout ?

[digital igloo]

I did notice that Land Raider Carriers no longer say Proteus. Does that mean we should feel free to use Phobos?

[kindred ledge]

Link? (Dm's if need be)

[fathom hemlock]

Heresy Hammer is private iirc

[marble sail]

Can you summaries them?

[wraith pasture]

You could always talk with your play groups guys and just say "look I really don't wanna have to reconvert all my stuff just to use this unit because they used to have thunder hammers or volkites or whatever and now they don't for some reason. Can I just use the wargear page to buy my gear for this unit and call it fair?"

It's very likely they would also want to do the same.

GW ain't holding a gun to your head or gonna break down the door to your LFGS to break your knees for doing that.

The rules are a baseline you can adapt them to suit your play styles and have fun.

I think people just get too caught up in having to religiously follow tabletop rules to the letter when at it's fundamental basics table top gaming was meant to be flexible and adaptive to what you want to do.

[wraith plank]

also wargear options, you can no longer equipped tactical veterans with breacher shield, for example

[balmy creek]

Yeah you gotta buy in tonheresy hammer and pardos whatsapp

[kindred ledge]

Maybe? The Explorator might be gone now that I think about it

[nocturne oasis]

I essentially only play events, this is a no go for me

[digital igloo]

Not really workable for those of us who don't have UK style gaming clubs.

[hard pewter]

And if you want to play in large events?

[wraith plank]

you guys play in large events?

[solemn oak]

There is a DG advanced reaction leak I think

[wraith pasture]

I'm wondering if there's gonna be some major rules oversight again with tsons like last edition

[trim seal]

In recon section

[lilac wasp]

I guess I could build out more Slayers, run my existing stalkers as Vets of some sort but i don’t think the chainswords necessarily translate over

[barren elbow]

I cba for that lol

[kindred ledge]

This will be very tricky ye

[solemn oak]

Okay, to play devils, though. Isn't that what the legacy documents are for?`

[wintry delta]

Tarantula being recon is peak joke tho

[kindred needle]

"what do you MEAN we're not a legal loadout anymore"

[kindred ledge]

Ah, thanks missed that

[tidal harness]

Time to sit down and reconsider my purchase of saturnine.

[carmine echo]

what's the difference of not being in the UK? you can still talk with the people you're going to play?

[balmy creek]

Command squad

[fathom hemlock]

You never know there might be a veteran despoiler squad in the legacies pdf

[quiet pier]

The more you look into it, the more agreements you have to make, this is not sustainable. Imagine new people come into your group and now you have to explain to them why half of your active players are ignoring or breaking some rules or getting equipment they shouldn't have.
How about instead GW puts some thought into a book before releasing it?

[barren elbow]

Huh?

[kindred needle]

no more melee vets without a jump pack

[wintry delta]

Meanwhile there is literally a legacy pdf incoming

[balmy creek]

Command swuaaaad

[wraith pasture]

It's not sustainable to talk to the people you're playing with on a regular basis?

[kindred needle]

they're not fancy enough to be a command squad

[digital igloo]

UKadians don't seem to get that the rest of the world has way fewer GWs, way more independent retailers, and that gaming tends to cluster around there. It isn't quite the same opt-in, pay to join affair you guys have going.

[wraith plank]

yes, but just like people need to see the liber and the legacy pdf now, the freakout must also be NOW

[night barn]

Same

[balmy creek]

Neithers the official command squad kit lmao

[marble sail]

yo how about that tactica rules list that is floating around? can somone do a little control C and Control V on that?

[tulip garden]

lower rank centurion. I forget what upgrade they use to have but I mean can build different lore to work 🙂

[lilac wasp]

At first it was, “we haven’t seen all the rules yet” then it was “but we haven’t seen the libers yet” now it’s “but there’s a legacy pdf”

[fair coral]

I'm pretty sure it's still "we haven't seen all the rules yet" lmao

[tulip garden]

My og command squad use to be just sergeats who got promoted for killing and surviving. Was crazy in 1.0 how many kill sig lol

[digital igloo]

I think it is the "bargaining" stage of grief.

[wraith plank]

I mean, yeah? that's how the legacy pdf works

[carmine echo]

what are you on about hahaha, I live in sweden and if i go to a gaming club and say to my opponent, hey can i use volkites on my breachers if i pay for them, they would most definitely say yeah sure

[lilac wasp]

We’ve seen enough and I am disgusted

[tidal harness]

Step 1: cope
Step 2: cope
Step 3: repeat step 1

[wintry delta]

Also are librarian and other consul still available in termi armor ? The page index seems weird

[quiet pier]

It's not sustainable to keep making compromises over and over, making up new rules instead of bad ones. The more inside agreements you make, the less your group is compatible with outside players that could join you or you could just play at an event or something

[wraith pecan]

Do we know if Moritats are gone?

[dire gale]

I mean people are complaining about missing stuff that isn't being sold, and legacy is where the rules for stuff that isn't being sold lives

[marble sail]

I mean its a little silly for people saying that a unit is entirly gone when we litterly have not seen the legacies pdf... moved and removed aren't the same.

[native scarab]

It’s likely. No listing for jump pack praetor, but that’s still a thing.

[kindred ledge]

Oh, this server is famous for that. I was dissapointed at the GK at first with 6 attacks and only dmg2, but if everyone got got....they might be good.
AP2 on the charge for Keshigs is also good.

However what really worries me is that cavalry cannot hold or score objectives and as such, bike armies (combined with bike characters maybe gone) cannot function on a basic level. That is basic army functionality, which a Liber should guarantee