Mirai Guardian - 4.0 Release

[lime ridge]

Can probably hold a couple of 1/8th and delivery boxes like the Vanguard can.

[tardy crater]

yeah but eventually you won't be able to get in the pilot seat with a backpack and armor on it'll be flightsuit only

[quaint kettle]

i think that QI is gonna be great

i hope it flies well enough

[lime ridge]

I hope the QI is great as well, none of the other Interdictor/QDampener ships have caught my eye before this.

[orchid rock]

The only interdictor is the mantis. no other ship can interdict

[lime ridge]

Ships which mount QDMPs or QEDs are classified as Interdictors, the RSI Mantis is the only one capable of Snaring ships out of Quantum, but the rest can stop a ship from engaging Quantum.

This does mean that most Interdictors can't actually Interdict, but hey it's a classification of ship.

And CiG has never been consistent with that.

[buoyant sierra]

Yea little weird

Though it would be weird to make a ship classification for one ship

[lime ridge]

It's CiG, they aren't consistent with most ship classification related stuff, and they don't remember the use cases of their ships when balancing.
But Interdictors are interesting given that there are apparently 3 different Quantum Disruption slots. the Dampener mounted by the Cutlass Blue, Zeus MR, Scorpius Antares, and now the Guardian QI, the Quantum Enforcement that has both Dampening and Snare functionality used by the Mantis, and an unused Snare that can only pull people out.

They generally also mount EMPs, which the QI does not from the look of it.

So we have the Zeus MR and Scorpius Antares with QDamp and EMP
The Guardian QI and Cutlass Blue with QDamp
And the Mantis with QDamp and Snare.
Then there's the Avenger Warlock, Vanguard Sentinel, Hawk, and Sabre Raven which just have EMPs.

I think those are the ships which fill that whole stop the enemy from escaping role that will probably be useful once bounty hunting is in.
QI lacks an EMP so probably not too good for taking people alive.

[crimson current]

how does the mantis do that gameplay wise?

do you just have to hope someone is quantum traveling past you? Ive never flown it so ive never really got how it works

[plush knot]

It's crazy the ships are so similar.

Those differences don't make getting the Base version worthwhile. Unless the prices are quite different.

[orchid rock]

what is #3?

[plush knot]

blank

[limber agate]

It's also very similar to the Vanguard Warden.

[plush knot]

But Guardian has far higher potential stealth capabilities.

I think you can get it down to 6-7km detection distance.

because of cross-section. for emissions it can get down to 3km.

[willow oxide]

we also don't have boost stats which could make a difference with vanguards

[limber agate]

It has almost half the signature, and nearly double the health pool

No nose, so body's the only critical point

[iron blade]

one would think the "glass" would take a ballistic negative. I know the "glass" will be said to be harder than metal.

I look at them as Sentinal and Warden. little more nimble little more squish but rather close.

[orchid rock]

But why don't we make a ship that's completely that glass?

atleast an in-lore prototype

[keen shore]

Do we know what's different between the two variants aside from one having a DQ?

Like less missles or lower sized guns? Etc.

[gaunt ruin]

The base is a bit faster and more manueverable.

[gaunt ruin]

Maybe super glass is more expensive/rare/etc

[river rivet]

As close as these are... if these are final numbers, why get anything other than the QI? (I am probably missing something obvious but I am old, so ... yeah...)

[gaunt ruin]

Unless you are planning on actively using the dampener often, then you just take a hit to manueverability and speed for no upside.

If you dont want to use the qd, then the you will likely get more shots/capacitor too

Since the QI does not have more power

[river rivet]

Maybe I am undervaluing the differences then. i.e. the diff between roll values may be more pronounced than what it looks like on paper

Right (on the power) but when not in use couldn't we just power it off and adjust the weapon power?

[gaunt ruin]

Possibly, but turning it off wont get you back the manueverability

[river rivet]

Wish they would just launch a pre-4.0 sale like they did with the Starlancer, lol

"Coming in 4.0. Secure yours now!"

[modern obsidian]

Imo thats what they wanted iae to be this year but didn't make it

[swift quartz]

Sad to see the Cutty Blue has the Guardian QI beat in every way lol

[buoyant sierra]

not really

[zealous warren]

Guardian does like twice the dps

[buoyant sierra]

was about to say

[swift quartz]

Imagine trying to bounty hunt in a ship that has no cargo, barely any fuel, and poor rotations. There is more to a ship than main gun DPS

[buoyant sierra]

its meant to support and run with other fighters for sure

[zealous warren]

It has the same fuel as all the other heavy fighters, it doesn't have "barely any fuel" It doesn't have any cargo though, no, which I don't give two shits about

[gaunt ruin]

Paper DPS looks better on Guardian but Cutty will be able to apply the damage better.

[zealous warren]

As someone primarily doing player bounty hunting, raw dps is one of the most important stats since you're not trying to be an honorable dogfighter, you're trying to jump someone who has no idea you're there and kill them asap. So I'm digging the high dps on the Guardian, more chance to just gib someone

[buoyant sierra]

exactly

you arent really pirating with it as a solo

[gaunt ruin]

Gameplay wise, I would take the Cutty Blue over the Guardian Qi every time.

[swift quartz]

Yup

[gaunt ruin]

But, factoring looks/feels etc, I can see people going for the Guardian

[limber agate]

If you meant Hydrogen for moving around and dodging/etc. You have to understand that the Cutlass series has twice the fuel consumption:

[swift quartz]

Agree the theme is so much cooler for the Guardian

and nice point Ean. Thats true

Still missing out on so much reason to pick the Guardian QI over the Blue sadly

[limber agate]

With the Guardian being half the Cutlass' mass, it has higher acceleration, meaning it's faster to get to top speed

[zealous warren]

I mean, the Cutlass is "faster" but it's faster by 5 m/s in SCM and 25 m/s in Nav, they're basically the same speed

[swift quartz]

It seems like most people are conceding that the Guardian has to run with a wingman. Its hard to overcome being out turned, and against a turret, and missing cargo for bounty hunter vs the Blue

[limber agate]

I also just realized this, but the Guardian has 0.0006 more SCU/m of fuel scoop than the cutlass

[zealous warren]

I think we'll have to see how the Guardian handles in game, it has the fully gimbled main thrusters in the back, I think the numbers we're seeing for g's might be deceptive when in game (plus the ship isn't actually out yet, values might change)

[limber agate]

We don't have numbers for Gs, except for people using it

Also, it's going to handle better than the cutlass regardless. Period. Higher top speed in rolling/pitching/yawing means nothing if you can't accelerate faster than your opponent.

[swift quartz]

Sadly I think the Guardian will be popular for its looks and CIG wont fix the stats for it because of its popularity

[gaunt ruin]

The Blue has a cargo grid and prisoner pods. It can also apply damage far more easily than a Guardian Qi. If you optimize loadouts on both and imagine both are using CF repeaters, their output is not that far apart (Qi like 50% more). But the Blue is much MUCH more nimble. I am happy with this. I do not think the Guardian is gonna get a post release nerf like other CIG releases. I will pick one up for sure (the base) and they may buff it eventually.

[limber agate]

Also, they just added back in cargo weight/etc. penalties to acceleration, so if your cutlass has cargo in it, it's going to be handling even slower.

[swift quartz]

I do not even like the argument that you should use the Guardian for groups instead because a Mantis is better there too. The Guardian needs a more clearly defined reason to pick it besides looks

[zealous warren]

47;38 / 39;38 / 135;130 for Cutlass;Guardian is "much MUCH much" more nimble?

[gaunt ruin]

When compared to the QI ya.

[limber agate]

1. I usually do small bounties, if I do them at all. But I need the Quantum Fuel Tanks to go across a system.
2. I don't PvP. I run or die if I encounter a hostile player. Period.
3. I don't do Bunker Raids/Missions. (Even if I do, I usually don't bother looting. Since I have better ways to get legal money.)
4. I don't do illegal missions and don't pirate.
5. I won't be interdicting/dampening. So I'd choose the base Guardian between the two.

[zealous warren]

47;35 / 39;35 / 135/120 for Cutlass;Guardian QI, that's like 12% for yaw and roll and 34% for pitch

[gaunt ruin]

Massive difference man

[limber agate]

The Guardian will be able to get to those speeds faster due to higher acceleration.

[gaunt ruin]

Qi will lose the rate fight every time against small targets and even against the Cutty.

Against unskilled pilots, it may be ok.

[zealous warren]

It's not enough of a difference to allow a Cutless to stay behind a Guardian though, and Guardian has double the dps of the Cutlass

It's a pretty even fight

[gaunt ruin]

You are overstating. The Qi is power starved. Difference in DPS is like 50% maybe once you kit them both out properly. And the Cutty will get on target far better.

[zealous warren]

The Cutlass is massively power starved too

[swift quartz]

Its like if you do not do PvP, do not want loot even if you PvE, and want to look cool making as little money as possible. Pickup the Guardian QI

Sad to see man, this ship deserves better

[gaunt ruin]

Ya, not as much as the Qi. The base Guardian is low on power. The Qi even more so.

[modern obsidian]

When did that update come in? I was under the impression all ships are still tuned to have flight profiles assuming full load till they can hook up cargo weight

[gaunt ruin]

I think even now, the Cutty Blue has the edge. When blades come it and it can leverage its turret solo, even more so. They may eventually buff the Guardian tho. As it stands, I like it and will get it (the base) but its not great.

[modern obsidian]

I'm assuming that's only then case while the QED is powered

[zealous warren]

For being like half the mass of the Cutlass and the Vanguards, it doesn't make sense to me that it's equal or less maneuverable than them, especially as Mirai

[modern obsidian]

The intent after engineering is in is that all ships are power starved and that we are creating power profiles to switch between during play to push the power where needed

[swift quartz]

yup lol

[limber agate]

I guess I was two tired, and read it as the thrusters checking ship weight
#sc-patch-notes message

[gaunt ruin]

Ya, they may buff it but don't bank on it. Just go in expecting mediocrity and you will not be disappointed.

[modern obsidian]

Damn. You got me excited. Haha

[limber agate]

regardless, the Guardian doesn't have cargo nor stowage The Cutlass does.

[zealous warren]

It does have stowage, has an armor locker and gun locker

[swift quartz]

yeah not the storage that matters man lol

[limber agate]

I meant actual item stowage. But sure, you think what you want.

[gaunt ruin]

The real benefit of the Guardian is it looks cool and has a chef's kiss interior for LARPing. This is why I am getting it.

[zealous warren]

That's literally the only storage I care abouty

Go play Tonka Trucks out there with your cargo, I'm gonna go kill people ; )

[modern obsidian]

No stowage is probably just an implementation oversight. My understanding is that every single ship will have stowage available

They probably just missed an interaction point in the ship or something

[gaunt ruin]

No stowage until they get back from vacation in February... crazy

[modern obsidian]

They only have a 2 week shutdown fyi

[gaunt ruin]

Then two weeks of "meetings"

[modern obsidian]

It's only ISCs that skip till Feb

[limber agate]

Wtf. Why is the Sabre a better fighter than the San'tok.

[gaunt ruin]

Santok is alien. Its meant to suck.

[zealous warren]

Sir, this is a Wendy's

[modern obsidian]

Cig has been saying since before Santok even dropped that it and then fury had fake profiles till the new flight model is in and that eventually they would move really well. I've given up and it's my Santok that's upgrading to guardian

[limber agate]

Sorry, I was comparing the Guardian to the San'tok, then notice the sabre is the San'tok's competitor.

[gaunt ruin]

Sabre can also likely spank the Guardian, btw

[zealous warren]

Sabre can't spank anything unless it sits there and lets it do it

Same can't be said of the Guardian

[gaunt ruin]

Naw, bro. Sabre is really good now.

[limber agate]

To be fair, the Sabre is like, almost twice as fast as the Guardian in maneuvering

[modern obsidian]

Guardian is heavy. Santok and sabre are medium. Neither should be compared to guardian

[gaunt ruin]

Sabre:

[modern obsidian]

Compare within its own weight class

[zealous warren]

If we're talking small, medium, heavy, Sabre would be small

[gaunt ruin]

That are pretty close in size, I think

[modern obsidian]

It's light, medium and heavy. The fighter rolls. Sabre is medium

[gaunt ruin]

I think the Sabre is actually a tad bigger than the Guardian

Maybe not quite as tall tho

[zealous warren]

I guess technically both Sabre and Guardian are S2

[limber agate]

If you put laser cannons on all of the vanguard's pilot weapons, it has nearly 100 more DPS than the Guardian 200 more alpha

[zealous warren]

Cutlass is S3, same with Vanguard

Which really drives home, why the hell is the Guardian less manuverable

[modern obsidian]

Physical size has little to do with combat/flight profiles. It's about it's role categorisation and adjusted from there

[limber agate]

And like I keep saying, the Guardian can achieve top speed faster.

[zealous warren]

The Vanguard's bespoke guns are terrible, they only have 1300 m/s projectile speed

[limber agate]

Oh, I was using an M7A for that main cannon on the Vanguard. Should've set it to an Omnisky so it matches the other ones >_>

[gaunt ruin]

I think the way they categorize stuff seems slightly off sometimes. We shall see though. Heavy fighters are meant to shine in N vs N engagements. Medium fighters are meant to be flexible. But when we get to some ships than straddle the edges of categories (like the Sabre and the Guardian), it can get murky.

[limber agate]

Setting it to Omnisky drops the Vanguard's DPS down to cutlass levels. So the Guardian's still got the DPS.

[zealous warren]

Are there any other ships that are heavy fighters but only S2? Ares are S3

[gaunt ruin]

How big is the Hurricane?

[limber agate]

Ares won't be going against a cutlass / guardian

Hurricane needs a co-pilot to be effective

[gaunt ruin]

imagine blades...

[zealous warren]

You're right, Hurricane is S2 and heavy fighter

[swift quartz]

The Hurricane, the zoom and boom ship that is out classed by no one.

Except the Scorpius that has more agility and firepower

[limber agate]

If you manage to rope someone into being your hurricane turret buddy, you can achieve higher or as high DPS as the guardian. With the added bonus you have a turret.

[zealous warren]

I mean, if you're comparing turret dps, you have to then compare it to 2 Guardians

Which has always been the issue with turrets, you're always better off with just another ship

[gaunt ruin]

Actually, the Hurricane is one ship where the turret is actually good.

And pilot dps isnt too shabby

[swift quartz]

If you've been a fan of the Hurricane, you know how long its been outclassed by the Scorpius. If Guardian fans dont make an outcry for more role defining stats then it will stay like this for just as long

[gaunt ruin]

The difference between those two is a little over blown. Hurricane is a good boat.

[modern obsidian]

People who say Scorpius is outclassing it are usually focusing on one or two of the performance metrics only

It has its own advantage/tradeoffs

[rough matrix]

Let me guess, you use that for pve?

[plush knot]

One problem... Hurricane is old and ugly.

[rough matrix]

"boom and zoom" joust and disengage. That tactic doesn't really work unless you have people holding your pocket

[gaunt ruin]

I prefer how it looks over the Scorpius, tbh

[tardy crater]

I sense nerf incoming for QI lol

[tardy crater]

is that from SPviewer? it shows acceleration that's an important stat I need to know

plz tell me where you found that lol

[heavy whale]

i think thats from the wiki

[tardy crater]

hmm interesting

I wonder if that's regulary updated

[gaunt ruin]

SPVIewer agrees

[tardy crater]

but that doesn't show 0 to scm

uhm it does show boost speed

[gaunt ruin]

Wiki is fairly well updated

[tardy crater]

this just shows max speeds righht? not the accell on spviewer

IDK what they mean by G forces

[gaunt ruin]

Those seem greyed out at present

But, like I said, Wiki seems updated fairly often

[tardy crater]

ah gotcha

[craggy surge]

The sabre is presently one of the best PvP ships because it can abuse super low emissions to cause constant target loss and be practically immune to missile lock.

If you know how to sit at the right range, you will be very hard to hit in a sabre.

[gaunt ruin]

Cool, thats how stealth should work

[craggy surge]

Yeah, it is a decent skill ceiling too because the sabre pilot has to be smart about their range and not try to fight up close.

[tardy crater]

I do think the faster ships with higher forward G forces are an indication they accelerate faster

[orchid rock]

Ship name: MIRAI Guardian
Focus: Long Range Fighter
Description: Taking the adage that the best defense is a good offense, Mirai engineers have brought their expertise in performance and maneuverability to the Guardian long range fighter. Fly circles around your opponents with the Mirai Guardian while establishing your space superiority.

Ship name: MIRAI Guardian QI
Focus: Interdiction
Description: It’s not too surprising that hostiles may run when confronted with a powerful opponent, but thanks to its quantum dampening capabilities, the Mirai Guardian QI ensures that your enemies won’t be able to fight another day. Taking the best features of the base Guardian, the engineers at Mirai have made the QI variant the ideal complement to any protective forces.

[heavy whale]

new qi discription?

[buoyant sierra]

That’s just the descriptions off erkul

[quaint kettle]

star wars squadrons ahh 😭😭

[quaint kettle]

can it fit in an idris or polaris? may be too wide for liberator, you could argue the guardian and cutlass are meant to be flown on the exterior at all times but you don’t need to use them at all times so it’s a waste of logistics which will be very important, everything is going to be super expensive and you can’t have your drake ship breaking every 5 minutes over some basic wear and tear. at least the guardian can land in something if the pilot needs to repair, the cutlass will have to be waited or left behind by the fleet as the pilot cannot fly and repair at the same time

[limber agate]

The Zeus MkII is the largest ship the Idris can have, and it's barely able to fit, mainly due to width. The Guardian is about 2 meters taller, so it might be a problem of height instead.

We know the Idris can hold 7.5 meter tall ships, since the hornet is half a meter taller than the Zeus Mk II

[heavy whale]

guardian fits, there was a reddit post

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1hggcaz/mirai_guardian_and_guardian_qi_will_fit_in_the/

[quaint kettle]

it fits

[limber agate]

Oh neat, it has like 2-4 meters of clearance

[quaint kettle]

it’s smaller than the nomad

in every way just barely

[halcyon agate]

The deck of an Idris is about 25m wide, 10m high, 200m long

[limber agate]

Weird. The Zeus Mk II is 34.3 meters wide (26.3 meters folded)

[quaint kettle]

Nomad is a tight fit in 890j hangar at 27x19x10, and the Guardian is 24.3x16.3x9.1

[quaint kettle]

yea i doubt it fits

how’s someone got that in there

[limber agate]

It does. completely. In fact, irisviel I believe did it

[halcyon agate]

My metrics are off then, that was purely from memory

[limber agate]

Probably 27 meters wide then, if you count those struts

[halcyon agate]

Yeah, Zeus is 26.3m without the tips

[quaint kettle]

still need at least 2 crew for that MR and it’s a big hunky target, could just run a QI

unless you need an emp

[limber agate]

The problem is, the Guardian's big damage comes from running a 1000 m/s cannon.

[quaint kettle]

can you not just swap it out

[limber agate]

You can, but the damage gets sliced in half for 1400 m/s. EG: Omnisky

[quaint kettle]

at least it’s not got the MR treatment where you can’t get all guns on target

[quaint kettle]

it’s pretty slow

not what i’d use a qi for tho, but i’d be better off getting a mantis tbh it probably fits in polaris still

if flying a 1 man ship with a larger ship and fighters

and it has snare

[limber agate]

M7a: (1000 m/s) (100 RPM)

1 844 Alpha

Lightstrike V (1656 m/s) (250 RPM)

497 Alpha

Omnisky XV (1288 m/s) (150 RPM)

984 Alpha

Each one has 15 ammo

[heavy whale]

how are cfs?

[limber agate]

2x CF-557 Galdereen (1800 m/s) (750 RPM) (75 Ammo)

196 Alpha```

[heavy whale]

Thanks

[limber agate]

The alpha's the most important part. Keep in mind, this is assuming you hit every shot.

Cannons are going to be better for the Guardian, since it's going to move slower than a light/medium fighter.

[heavy whale]

true

[limber agate]

Might as well not get the Guardian then.

[swift quartz]

Yup

CIG can design a niche every ship can be good at within its own class. Both Guardians don't have unique defining characteristics. And they move as slow as molasses to make meaningful changes

[swift quartz]

Less useful than Cutty blue that has higher turn rates + cargo for bounty hunting. Or mantis which is better in groups

[swift quartz]

I'm curious if anyone disagrees with these niches the heavy fighters should fill
Guardian(s): Solo interceptor tuned king Hurricane: Duo interceptor tuned + turret Scorpius(s): Duo firepower / EMP king F8C Lightning: Solo firepower king Vanguards: Missile boats / EMP + turret Ares Star Fighters: Bigger ship hunters

[modern obsidian]

Only qi is an interceptor

Standard is a long range heavy fighter

[craggy surge]

The guardian is going to be a generalist heavy because of the interior. It won't be best at any combat. The Qi is a good long range support ship for PvP orgs that will need to focus more on evading and survival while maintaining QED

[lime ridge]

I feel like the F8 should be the best tuned for anti-fighter duty. It was designed for the Vanduul front where they have swarms of light and medium fighters.
If they can find a way to reduce its effectiveness against larger ships while boosting its speed and manueverability once armour and the like are in that would be great.

Also the Scorpius Antares is theoretically the Interceptor of the Duo heavy fighters.

But your second player has one button so we don't really count it.

[craggy surge]

Also from Yogi:
That aside and looking a bit forward the full potential of the Ares is gated behind the armor & penetration tech. Once we enable that, the advantage of the Ares carrying those large S7s will become a bit more clear
Might make the S5s also more prevalent in large ship combat.

[swift quartz]

Except that the Cutty Blue has actual scu for storage inside + prisoner pods + a turret + is better at combat with higher turn rates. The guardian needs SOMETHING is my point here that most people do not get

[craggy surge]

Cutty Blue is intended to be crewed and may lose the pilot controlled QED at some point (Antares style). I wouldn't compare multi-station ships to the guardian long term

[lime ridge]

Ideally I'd hope the Guardian, Khartual, Santokyai, and Fury get a more circular thrust profile to represent the rotary thrusters they mount and letting them move better omnidirectionally. (Maybe with lower max forward thrust or poor ability to slow down as a trade off?)

To make them stand out more

[swift quartz]

I guess I have to mention again that the Mantis will be better for group PvP. There is no place for the Guardian as is

[swift quartz]

I would agree with this, however wiggle combat is very controversial. It is an idea though

[craggy surge]

Mantis is very weak defensively, but you will want to duplicate QED in group battles. Relying on a single ship that is easily focus fired will fail as a strategy

[swift quartz]

Mantis has the highest SCM + turn rates + accelerations, it will survive the best out of any other options. Speed is life, slow is death

[lime ridge]

Eh, the Mantis is more capable specifically in the interdiction role but with the number of players I operate with I think the QI's extra firepower is more manpower efficient for mid sized groups.

Double Size 5s with ballistics will probably be more useful in a capship fight in the future as well.

[swift quartz]

The ships you want is the Ares

[lime ridge]

Ares doesn't have an interior or QDampener though

(Speculatively with what we've heard about larger size weapons being better against bigger ships) In a smaller group, QI is a dampener ship that has the weapons that can contribute in larger ship fights, has a suit locker so you can have a suit for ground combat or boarding actions, and a weapons rack.
I think the Vanguard lacks a suit locker, so you'd need to store lighter armours in a 1/8th crate or the interior storage, which isn't as convenient and presumably takes longer to put on than having your loadout ready.

Amenities wise it feels better for a solo combat player who is engaging in a mix of on-foot and space combat. Someone who might play with a group for a while but also wants to detach from the fleet and adventure alone for a while

[craggy surge]

Vanguards will probably get a suit locker after an interior update.

[lime ridge]

I don't think they have space for one without a significant rework, let alone the two needed for both crew members

Which is fine to me, let the Vanguard crew be limited to light and mediums while also having prep time to deploy while the Guardian solo pilot can quickswap and drop down the elevator ready to rumble

[gaunt ruin]

They can make it fit in the Vanguard pretty easily, I'm sure

[craggy surge]

I think they might find room for one on either side of the ramp in the vanguard. Its pretty much baked into a standard interior design going forward.

[gaunt ruin]

All this is whatever. Just for playing Sci Fi Barbie Dreamhouse for the next few years.

[lime ridge]

Yeah that's a possibility.

[rose linden]

man this channel has been busy

[plush knot]

it's potentially a great ship

[rose linden]

I want to like the ship a lot. but if it isn't a "dogfighter" I don't know that I'd actually need one

right now my only combat ship is the Defender

[plush knot]

it's a heavy fighter...

[rose linden]

Sure, but that doesnt really say much

[plush knot]

it says, expect it to perform very close to Vanguard and Ares.

[zealous warren]

Oh god, definitely don't expect it to perform like the Ares, Ares is in its own class of trash ship currently

[south valve]

I love flying the ares personally

used it to help take out an idris during the recent event and loved it

[modern obsidian]

That literally describes both it's role and base flight/combat profile

[plush knot]

supposedly Guardian is either imminent, or news about it is...

[modern obsidian]

It's releasing with 4.0 live preview today

[plush knot]

I wonder if it will go on sale before, or if the sale goes live at the same time as the preview.

[modern obsidian]

It's a straight to flyable. So not before

[plush knot]

hopefully they are adding extra nodes to the sales/my hangar servers...

[modern obsidian]

Even CIG leaking stuff now

[limber agate]

Well, several weeks ago, a CIG dev here in #star-citizen "leaked" the teams were focused on DRAKE and MISC. So we know Ironclad was being worked on before Crewe told us at IAE.

They didn't specifically say the Ironclad, but it was basically a given considering all the other DRAKE Ships were basically in need of gold pass or were the Kraken.

And we all know the Kraken isn't coming anytime soon.

[orchid rock]

the drake-like boba/jango fett ship?

[limber agate]

This was technically before Citcon's reveal too

Two months go by pretty fast.

[modern obsidian]

Yeah. Also, we did already know before then that the Kraken woudl not be make before the ironclad because they planed to use it's styleguide and assets in the Kraken

[orchid rock]

cracken?

[iron blade]

krakin

[plush knot]

I'll rage if Kraken hits before my beloved...

[buoyant sierra]

Not really a leak

[modern obsidian]

I know. I'm just memeing

[grizzled frigate]

I wonder what it looks like with all its "wings" shot off...

I envisioned this

[south valve]

how is this thread not popping off

its released!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/20325-Mirai-Guardian

[plush knot]

it's no longer classified as a leak?

[limber agate]

A bunch of the threads should be locked and/or deleted, but I don't think the mods will do it.

[wintry scarab]

How do we feel about the ship?

[hollow dock]

has anyone found out if the Qi has a different interior from the base model?

[swift quartz]

Looks cool but that's it

[wind cipher]

Mate, "Looks cool" is literally one of the major reasons you should be buying any ship at this point in SC IMHO 😄

[soft salmon]

Ngl the trailer was bad ass and kind of cyberpunky

Definitely getting myself one

[willow oxide]

Yeah marketing is really good at cig xD

[lime ridge]

I think it's a good ship for a solo operator doing primarily merc and bounty missions.

Thing has double weapon racks, double personal storage, and a suit locker all in a very compact frame that fits into small hangars.

[remote robin]

only problem is its slow ass turning

[swift quartz]

it sacrificed performance for a longer range QT drive

[remote robin]

yeah, and i still cant get my QED to work at all, no mater what ive tried it will not power up

[open vector]

so what is the better option out of the two

do you lose anything going with the qi

[lime ridge]

Mobility

[remote robin]

they both have the same stats

[open vector]

anyone notice a difference in mobility?

[remote robin]

no

they have the same armaments' other than the QIs QED

[lime ridge]

Haven't tried the non-QI but the standard has 3° per second better yaw and pitch according to Erkul and SP Viewer, and a couple meters higher top speed.

It's minimal tuning changes

[willow oxide]

Power when using QD. Which mean less firepower or shield regen or thrusters.
Also QI is slower. Still waiting on boost stats to have full info tho

[open vector]

tyty

[rose linden]

so just waking up... how we feeling about the ship?

[halcyon agate]

It's literally perfect

[rose linden]

it's unfortunate it doesn't have any storage for LOOTS

[halcyon agate]

[rose linden]

are you just throwing shit in random places iris....

[halcyon agate]

maybe :p

[rose linden]

so what's the difference between the versions

mobile website is shit and I'm about to be driving

I guess what I'm really asking is... is this the dogfighting ship that I want finally 😂

let's make a reaction poll on if I should buy it while I'm at work 😂

[mental radish]

I always buy ships in work, you earn them while spending them

[rose linden]

honestly the only thing j really needed confirmed to buy the ship is that it's actually reasonably good at dogfighting

especially if it's against smaller ships

[mental radish]

I guess you can't buy or rent it ingame?

I agree that website doesn't tell you much differences about variants

[willow oxide]

it is said in Q&A. It's tuning and weapon makes it better for bigger targets but if you manage to aim and touch it'll make big damages to smaller ones

[rose linden]

so it has the Ares problem, but not to the same degree? or is it just as bad?

unfortunately without flying it myself I'm not sure I'll be able to get much feel

but the Ares I absolutely can't use for dogfighting

[open vector]

it has internal storage on the wing fin thing

and looks like inside but it don't open o.o

[willow oxide]

I'd say not that bad because it's supposed to be more nimble but yeah I wouldn't use it for a dogfight except between heavies

[rose linden]

see I feel like that isn't really what I need a ship for. medium fighter might really be what I need

I just feel like the Defender isn't quite enough punch

[lime ridge]

It has a fair amount of internal storage and weapon racks for FPS storage.

[lime ridge]

Have you considered the Reliant Tana?

[rose linden]

not really, no. the only fighter I've really considered is the Scorpius.

is there any reason to have the Qi if you don't intend to need the interdiction?

[lime ridge]

Not really

[rose linden]

I mean... this might be reason enough

it looks so much better 🤣

So the QI gets 8 S3 missiles and the base has 16 S3 missiles? Is there much difference in the flight profile?

[shadow forge]

Yeah im going for the QI

Could care less about the regular. I have enough fighters

Its a tie interceptor. So im going to treat it like one

[rose linden]

I don't know that I ever use the quantum feature

since I don't really expect to be big into pvp

maybe bounty hunting without capture?

[thick mica]

Qi gets 8 Size 3. Base gets 16 Size 2. But you can swap the missile racks out and have as many as 32 Size 1's or 4 Size 4's.

On both

[shadow forge]

Id rather have size 3s

[wintry scarab]

So literally the same ship but for ten more you get QED

[shadow forge]

https://tenor.com/view/schitts-creek-thats-correct-yes-nod-nodding-gif-10083239

[cosmic ravine]

any thoughts on this paint?

[shadow forge]

https://tenor.com/view/reasonsimbroke-larry-david-hbo-hbo-max-meh-gif-24169087

[thick mica]

Yep. Though to play it safe I bought the base then a CCU to the QI. You know, should they decide to nerf the QI lol

[shadow forge]

https://tenor.com/view/anxiety-celebration-now-gif-13719136

[thick mica]

Let's all be honest. There's a 50/50 chance they decide the QI needs to have a difference other than just the QD. Only makes sense so they can sell more right?

[shadow forge]

Doubt. They made minor differences and trade offs that will likely be adjusted slightly in tuning as overall ship handling and tuning changes come over game iterations

[modern obsidian]

It has several disadvantages to offset it already

[thick mica]

Fundamentally though it's the same ship. Turn off the QD and the base's only real advantage is a 10% boost in turn rates

[shadow forge]

I have zero intention of using this exclusively as a fighter. Its main advantage is the QI and i suspect that will give it a unique game loop

For people who dont own large fleets, the regular suffices as a fighter

[rose linden]

I like it but not as much as the default Qi

[rose linden]

such as?

[rose linden]

is 10% enough to actually really notice?

[willow oxide]

a bit slower and less maneuverable (slighly) and QD use lot of power which conclude in a loss of either firepower/shield regen/thruster

[modern obsidian]

Lower turn rate, which means less time on target, and 3 less power to buff other components due to the qed

[rose linden]

oh, I didnt think about how you would need to lose power for the QD

Interesting

[thick mica]

The QI is the better buy at the moment because it's only $10 more for essentially the same ship but with an added feature. The reason I bought the base the the CCU to the QI is so I always have the base with LTI "should" cig nerf the QI

[river rivet]

Base + a CCU to the QI to hold onto seems a smart play.

[rose linden]

I guess I wouldnt need the Qi right now

so could fly the base and then upgrade later to the Qi if I wanted

[modern obsidian]

Disagree. As a mostly solo player the QED version is just worse stats for no gain

Interdiction ships are made to work as a group with other ships

[thick mica]

Right, but you can always just disable the QD in the mfd's

[modern obsidian]

You still have worse agility

Heavy fighter's are already slow to turn. Being even worse turn rate can be significant in a 1v1

[plush knot]

Concierge best as always.

[willow oxide]

it's not a 1vs1 ship either. It's meant to attack bigger targets and you rarely attack them alone anyway

[thick mica]

Is a 10% decrease really that big of a deal? I have both at the moment as I have Imperator for a month and can do a real world test this evening

[modern obsidian]

I am a solo player. I use a heavy alone

Which is why the fighter version is the better choice for me.

[willow oxide]

tbh you'll be dominated by any fighter smaller than you in 1vs1. especially with only S5 guns. Not the ship I would pick as a solo player for dogfight. And bigger targets wont fall easily to a single guardian either

[modern obsidian]

I know how heavy fighter's work. This isn't the first one I've used

[rose linden]

This is the main reason I am torn on getting one

but I am kinda meh on most of the smaller fighters

and I really like this one

[willow oxide]

it will do the job for pve mostly. but for pvp I wouldn't pick that imo

also it doesn't have to be meta

[modern obsidian]

Yeah it doesn't strike me as a PvP ship

[rose linden]

See I don't really expect to do PvP dogfighting intentionally

[modern obsidian]

I have F7A and F8C for PvP anyway

[rose linden]

atleast not solo

[modern obsidian]

This is my ert ship

[willow oxide]

if you really like it then try it and then take it

[cosmic ravine]

the way this is anyway pick base version and if you dont feel just upgrade to qi

[willow oxide]

I had enough store cred to take one. I'll try it later and see what it's worth. but if I take it it'll mostly be for design and interior xD

I'm mostly waiting to see if I like it more than sentinel actually

[rose linden]

Sadly I don't have store credit lying around unless I melt all my unused CCus

but then I don't have those if I need them

[willow oxide]

you can ask for someone to let you try it ingame too

[modern obsidian]

The guardian is way nicer than I expected with the interior and the external cargo/weapon racks and stuff

And being able to enter cockpit from exterior or internally like the titan

[plush knot]

Did everyone find the button for the front entrance?

oh... yep.

[modern obsidian]

Yeah it's nice

[thick mica]

Right? Like I saw the leaks of the interior but in no way expected the front entrance/exit or the front weapon storage

[modern obsidian]

And between the two sets of stowage that's 1k scu

Before you even count the weapon racks

[plush knot]

i cant find an internal button, had to use the dumb rotary menu which I hate.

[modern obsidian]

It's the draw under the bed

Took me a while to find too

[thick mica]

A 1scu box does infact fit through the elevator too

[plush knot]

yeah, or 2 scu vertically.

[modern obsidian]

Oh nice! I hadn't tested yet

Can you get around it easy enough?

[plush knot]

not really.

when i tried to take the elevator down with box...

[modern obsidian]

But to could store it on the ramp and just use the cockpit entrance I guess

[thick mica]

I'm gonna have to remember this

[cosmic ravine]

elevator 1 you 0

[modern obsidian]

If they made that lift a 1scu grid I'd kiss Chris on the mouth

[plush knot]

I know a lot of people are complaining about maneuverability, I think it's excellent... But I've also been flying only Zeus for a couple weeks.

[modern obsidian]

The same people who complain about the maneuverabilty say the standard is shit and only use qi. The less maneuverable one

[river rivet]

Wait, there's a "Direct Entry to cockpit" entrance too? Wow

[plush knot]

button

[river rivet]

(I could have read further before asking heh)

now I still just need to answer the "Melt the Corsair or melt the MSR?" question for myself.

[plush knot]

I'd keep the Corsair, for now.

[tardy crater]

I really hope I find someone that will lend me their Guardian ingame to check out first before I buy

[craggy surge]

Corsair still much more useful than MSR.

[river rivet]

yeah my thinking too. It's still great for long hauls.

[tardy crater]

LOL only 32 euros to upgrade from zoos to guardian?

duuuuude

breeeh

[cosmic ravine]

guessing the qi is on the imperator testing too?

[tardy crater]

Do I lose my manuevering when I lose an arm?

[cosmic ravine]

i did one fighter mission and that enemy craft was moving so fast

[tardy crater]

are you using QI?

because with the regular guardian I have no issues outmaneuvering NPCs

[river rivet]

Is it pointless to switch to some Laser Repeaters like Attritions, for no other reason than the cannons seem slow? (I mean I get there's nice Alpha, but fast pew pew somehow feels better)

[tardy crater]

yeah I wanna do that as well

seriously tho can anyone here conform if QI is a lot slower than guardian?

[cosmic ravine]

it was regular but that npc was moving way too fast like outhoming the missiles

[tardy crater]

and does anyone know if you lose maneuvering if you lose the arms?

[tardy crater]

interesting

[rose linden]

I am just trying to figure out how I get the guardian

[craggy surge]

Attritions are 1000 m/s. M7A are 1000 m/s. They're the same weapon speed. You are better with Attritions because of the higher DPS (lower alpha). If you want to make it easier to hit things, you need to get galdreens (CFs). Then you will have very high m/s projectile velocity. They're also substantially cheaper.

[river rivet]

interesting. I just like the faster guns. (Hey I'm a simple guy...) 🤪

[craggy surge]

The difference between the two is almost non-existent:

[swift quartz]

Slower turning ships (the Guardian) require high speed cannon weapons to compensate for low pip on target time

[craggy surge]

Or... skill

Require is a bit of an overstatement. They don't "require" faster projectile speed if you know how to compensate for being in a slower ship by using back strafe and speedboost braking to turn faster.

[swift quartz]

If you are fighting any target with half a brain, you will get turn rated and die only getting one shot off.

[craggy surge]

Well, the AI have no brains, and if you're taking the guardian to a dogfight in PvP you're gonna lose.

[cosmic ravine]

it didnt help the frame drops but managed to win

[tardy crater]

Great I'm getting the QI then. Not sure how to use the quantum dampner tho dunno if even works

[craggy surge]

If you're not going to be a QED support role for a group PvP exercise, just turn it off. The only time it will be useful is for PvP.

[tardy crater]

So a qed you use on a qt lane you just sit and wait?

And a snare prevents them from leaving

[craggy surge]

No, that is a snare. You cannot snare with a QED. Generally QED is used for going to heavily traveled points of interest and preventing ships from fleeing by forcing them into SCM speeds. You have 4.5k range with the guardian qi, so as long as you're within that distance you can prevent them from running. Since the guardian is heavy fighter slow and not interceptor tuned, you will only really be trapping bigger ships, so good for pirating. However, the cutlass blue is still probably more ideal as it is both faster and more maneuverable.

[tardy crater]

Ohhhh sick! Thats so useful! Idk if the 4.5k range is enough tho

Lmao yes its a piracy ship

[craggy surge]

Because its a heavy fighter with somewhat slower speeds, you wont do so great at holding anything faster at bay, but as it forces SCM speeds for every ship w/in 4.5k range, big haulers and such will definitely be easy to keep inside that range.

[shadow forge]

We won’t be using snare, but the Guardian QI will be able to stop ships from fleeing within range. That may not seem like a big deal, but when quantum boost becomes a thing - it will be

[gaunt ruin]

Yup, Blue seems just better than the Qi to me at the whole QD use thing.

[tardy crater]

Hmm thats amazing, I do worry about the power issues especially because the QED is not a single use it has to remain active to prevent prey from fleeing which leaves little power for weapons to finish the job

[tardy crater]

2xs1 powerplants don't seem a lot for a heavy fighter

[gaunt ruin]

I'm surprised they didn't slap AD5B's on the QI for power reasons.

[tardy crater]

Yeah

[south valve]

hey all maybe someone can help me out here: Ive got the QI, my QED is powered on, assigned to a weapon group, but when i go to that weapon group and engage nothing happens

[craggy surge]

There are reports of sporadic powering on/off issues with the QED.

[thick mica]

How are the power plants in the QI an "upgrade" from the base? 🤣 They both have military grade c power plants with the same specs

[zealous warren]

The weird thing is that the Guardian Q&A said the QI had a better powerplant to account for the QED, and they do have different powerplant brands, yet they both are military grade c with the same power generation

Not that it matters what the base is anyway since you can just upgrade eventually

[zealous warren]

You don't turn QED on with weapon groups, you hold F and click the button on the console

[lime ridge]

Pre-engineering setups, the Reguluses used by the QI have a 4k power output compared to a 3.5k power output on the Overdrives used by the normal Guardian.
So higher EM but boosted power.

Right now that doesn't do anything but in the Engineering test I recall power per second indicators for battery charging.

[thick mica]

Ah, so right now they are equal but when engineering finally comes it will be different?

[modern obsidian]

Yeah seems like that's it. But either way, who cares what the stock Loadout is anyway

When fully upgraded qi has more power contention regardless

[thick mica]

I mean, I kinda do 🤣 That quantum drive slots nicely into my Zeus and Starlancer for a nice upgrade that only requires time waiting for reclaiming.

[modern obsidian]

3 points of power is pretty significant. Especially when cigs design goal is that almost every ship has some power contention to some meaningful decisions in our gameplay style anyway

[modern obsidian]

Enjoy that while you can. Once insurance fraud is in it won't be that easy. Haha

[thick mica]

Okay so if I disable all the other systems and dump all the power into that massive engine bar, does it actually make a difference?

[thick mica]

Oh, I know.

[modern obsidian]

Yes. I know at minimum that bar impacts boost recharge speed, which is something you want in a slow turning fighter. But idk what else it does since the move away from power triangle. No doubt we'll find out a lot more about that when engineering comes in during a point patch

What power contention does till then is basically placeholder

[thick mica]

Hmm, so I should start disabling guns in NAV mode and put the power towards engines. Would make more sense if it did that automatically, or is it supposed to?

[modern obsidian]

Yep

The power allocation is supposed to remember what you've set moving back and forth from scm to nav, but it seems to forget sometimes atm

The engineering update also let's us create power profiles on the engineering screen which we can quickly swap between from pilot seat

[broken depot]

Is that out

[modern obsidian]

no

it was moved to a point patch

[tardy crater]

that would be very handy for the guardian

[south valve]

figured out the issue. I was simply trying to do it in the hangar where i thought weapons-free extended to QED

the option to Activate didnt show within the hangar

and it never powered on visually there either

[tardy crater]

damn that looks sick

[wintry scarab]

How do yall feel about the ship now that’s it’s been out for a bit

[modern obsidian]

I'm enjoying the base guardian

[craggy surge]

Good generalist combat daily driver. Its a "B" grade combat ship which makes it good enough for most PvE activities and the Qi can be useful (if not the best) at the QED role. I'd say its a great ship if you don't mind the price and wanted a more fighter focused daily driver that you can live out of.

[kindred axle]

"daily driver that you can live out of" this is one of the selling points for me.

[weary fulcrum]

Good daily driver with great offensive capabilities that i can live out of.. Small enough and nimble enough to avoid ai turrets. Big Generalist ship for all things combat side.

although the fat signature aint escaping any missle anytime soon

[floral coral]

Upgrading my defender to a guardian QI was one of the best moves I made lately, the defender is cool don't get me wrong but the guardian is so much more functional

I went with the QI so I have that functionality in my back pocket but will likely leave the dampeneder off most of the time for the extra power elsewhere

[weary fulcrum]

never know when you can be a menace, dampener just exists

good to have

personally can never get it to work

try fiddle with power setting but it never charges xd

[tardy crater]

it really is a long range daily driver with offensive capabilities that can even haul a little cargo altho a ramp would've been more convenient you can still tractor in stuff inside loot components hold SCU crates etc fill the whole interior up and enter from the front lol

really the only thing I don't like is that if you lose one or two arms you lose your thruster maneuvering

[kindred axle]

I got one for credit to fly around a bit love it

[tardy crater]

it just seems a little squish, several times I've had my components destroyed and I was dead in the water

its a bit of a glass canon if you will, I feel that its in a good place but they might even want to increase the SCM speeds a little so it can keep up with its prey more

its a bit weird that it has so many energy bars for engine the engines must be really powerful then

not quite sure what stats increase when you increase power to engines

[orchid rock]

it increases the boost regen

[tardy crater]

ohhh right and thats all I think?

well boost is pretty important in combat for sure

[orchid rock]

yes

[modern obsidian]

Nice. I have an upgrade from base to qi but I haven't applied it yet because there's so little difference between the two that I half expecting a balance update, and as a mostly solo player I don't want to end up stuck with a qi which is only good in a group if it gets a nerf.

I hope nothing changes and I can apply it

[broken depot]

I’m on that same boat of the qi. The difference is so small anyways it’s not a bother to me

[craggy surge]

It isn't all. It also increases the rate you turn while boosting.

And extends the duration of your boost

[lime ridge]

The ease of access of the ship with two entrances/exits, and double weapon racks and internal storage (both on the wing and under the bed) are also huge pluses for it as a daily driver.

[modern obsidian]

Especially useful if you're storing a 1scu box on the ramp. Can just go out the front

[lime ridge]

Could probably bring it for hand mining with the storage you get.

And it's small enough to fit into a good number of caves

[heavy whale]

i like it, bed is good to have to switch servers quickly

[polar steppe]

Been flying my base Guardian for a while, and I like it a lot. Certainly something going on with the ridiculously fragile wings/cockpit. I also would like to see a slight SCM boost, as it currently is less tanky and has less DPS than other vehicles in its class. This is fine, but it should be more maneuverable to make up for that.

I also have a QI upgrade in my hangar. Want to see what changes they make first, as I typically run bounties, and right now I prefer the slight boost in speed from the base version.

[modern obsidian]

Same here. I don't want to apply the QI upgrade then see a round of nerfs that make QI worse for solo compared to base. Waiting before I apply it

[polar steppe]

Also depends on how often bounties will try to escape when they implement that. Maybe the dampener will make up for lack of speed at that point. Gotta wait and see

[modern obsidian]

Maybe. At least for now the QED is more for PvP/group play

[warm folio]

Total Recall: July 1990

[modern obsidian]

You just necro'd a leak post about a release which has been out for 5 months.

Also, it's not a leak

[warm folio]

I don't know what any of that means.

[warm folio]

How is them stealing a ship company name not a leak?

[iron blade]

Movies been out for 35 years, how is it a leak? the game wasnt existing yet. Cant leak whats not leakable.

Also this is a thread for the guardian, not the manufacture nor the movie.

[modern obsidian]

Necro is internet jargon for replying in a very old dead conversation. It's generally frowned upon.

It's not a leak because it's not about the future of this game. It's just a reference you found and in no way is a leak

A leak is when you find out unknown information which was not officially shared, which is about the future of the development

[craggy surge]

Well, what are thoughts on the updated Guardian MFDs in 4.2? I think the position is better, but the styling is garbage.