💬│palia-discussions

[pallid igloo]

Megalith, this is a super valid concern that we are keeping in mind 🙂
The blog post will share more about our philosophy, and we took very seriously how we spoke about this choice.

If you have any questions about our approach, please share them here:
https://forms.gle/WgfqfRRPRvmA1Zv36

[opal sphinx]

But They literally only said cosmetics x,D

[wicked dew]

Are they still sending them

[spice scaffold]

ah ok, thanks i didnt know if a date was released yet

[atomic pine]

hi amelia im not being able to log into the game, i already submitted a ticket

[ebon shoal]

I don’t want this game to be like fortnite in term of cosmetics. I remember that people would roast deault skins

[patent dust]

invites stopped yesterday

[little basalt]

@pallid igloo I was really hoping to get into Alpha testing, is that closed?

[hybrid widget]

Hi Amelia!

I would love if you could comment on how vast the cosmetic monetisation will be?
E.G. will it be completely player based (outfits etc) or will this also span into other things such as items, buildings, furnishing of the buildings, etc?

[stray prism]

When I saw "Palia will be free to play" I got MEGA nervous but after reading the explanation on the site I feel a bit better about it!! Really hoping the team works together here to create something fair and inviting 🙏

[chilly crater]

I wanna buy all the pretty outfits

[spice haven]

stop typing so dang fast

[atomic pine]

I think the emails stopped today because i got my invite 38 minutes ago

[pallid igloo]

I'm afraid so teach, but we are having a lot more tests in 2022!

[wheat heron]

Already filled it out. I'm VERY interested to hear the answer to this. Because while I understand the decision, it seems like you're actively taking things away from what are likely to be your most avid supporters by doing this

[scarlet patrol]

a realistic monetization here is not cosmetics, but the size of your house/farm plot. Free is probably the minimum plot that requires hundreds of hours to grind for currency to upgrade to a medium-sized plot. If you really want to play the game and not be hampered by cramped building space, shell out $20 for a large plot.

[patent dust]

alpha testing invites are all done, they finished yesterday around 5pm PST

[sly mirage]

it says it will be clothing and costume focused, but they will evaluate other spaces later. i think they recognize that purchasable home items may be an issue

[opaque flare]

read the post

[night matrix]

I'm just curious about the representation of turtles within the world. Can I have a turtle as a pet?

[little basalt]

Thank you! I cannot wait!

[wheat tundra]

Hopefully they won't go the "Archeage" way of just putting stuff behind an energy system where you have either wait or pay to have more energy.

[sturdy ingot]

dunno if it's too early to say, but will we be able to mix and match clothing pieces (like shirts, pants etc) or will there only be premade outfit sets?

also thank you for your time!

[subtle forge]

OMG I want a onesie IRL… please someone make these!!! 😬

[crimson gazelle]

I hope so too

[frosty steppe]

That aristocrat outfit is straight 🔥

[patent dust]

they havnt stated any specific pets, but pets are in the plans :)

[celest maple]

Done. My request is VERY important, I expect you to understand.

[atomic pine]

How do you get the role for the alpha channels?

[wheat heron]

I get that. But show me a F2P game that doesn't have the best looking cosmetics gated behind a credit card. Because I've honestly never seen one. The almighty dollar wins out everytime, and it's never more obvious in F2P games.

[sly mirage]

see #📃│server-directory

[patent minnow]

It seems like free makes sense for this sort of game, especially since it's a bit more of a social game too. I'd gladly buy some cosmetic things to support it.

[pallid igloo]

From the blog:

"With Palia, we’ll only be monetizing cosmetic content. At first, this will focus on character clothing and costumes, but we’ll evaluate more spaces as time goes on. "

For further elaboration, please post a question in our Q&A form!
https://forms.gle/WgfqfRRPRvmA1Zv36

[patent dust]

customization will be extensive, and nothing will be 'gender locked' :) they wont go into too much detail on all the customization quite yet

[tired zenith]

hype

[proven cypress]

who am iiiiii

[pallid igloo]

You will be able mix and match your outfits 🙂

[pallid igloo]

Interesting you say that...

[sturdy ingot]

thats so epic, thank you for the answer!! 💛

[patent minnow]

Yay, same sex relationships too I hope! (I heard there's NPC relationships).

[night matrix]

I just need turtles implemented into my overall game experience in whatever format that may exist.

[foggy imp]

do we have a date on when the Alpha will start?

[strange fern]

[subtle forge]

Oh you tease me!!

[sharp obsidian]

Do you require them to have the skills of a ninja?

[patent dust]

yes, same sex relationships are a thing :)

[hybrid widget]

Already has, email invites were sent - if you haven't received you'll have to be on the look out for more testing throughout this year.

[foggy imp]

that's a given, of course.

[granite surge]

will we be able to dye outfits?

[timid prism]

WOW, Pilia is free to PLAY. So happy

[pallid igloo]

We haven't spoken about dying outfits yet, but we do want you to be able to coordinate your favorite aesthetics 😉

[atomic pine]

@pallid igloo How do I get access to the alpha discord channels? I tried following the link in the email but it just says messages failed to load

[night matrix]

If this was possible, this would be incredible. TMNT is definitely my forever love.

[pallid igloo]

I will DM you!

[atomic pine]

awesome thank you

[foggy imp]

oh so the server is live right now.

[patent dust]

check the link in #📢│palia-news to contact someone about getting you role!

[opal sphinx]

aw, i wish i had finally gotten an invite :c

[wispy jay]

hmm free

[signal dagger]

Will cosmetics be locked behind a paywall or will some also become accessible through gameplay, I'd like to see some unique endgame gear (didn't mean to reply to this message sorry)

[wispy jay]

im sure they wil have alot of cosmetics gear

[wintry wasp]

Now I do wonder if this is able to be answered or not... But will there be completely wild and out of theme outfits or will it stick to logically in the game's themes?

[buoyant heath]

I'm not sure what would be considered an endgame here

[earnest pumice]

Still not on alpha, even though i'm here since the beginning :(
welp

[wispy jay]

most likly both

[celest maple]

Is there more invites going out for the alpha?

[sudden shoal]

That's pretty much my one and only concern as well, yea

[lyric ocean]

A part of me is sad I wasnt picked up too, but hopefully better luck next play test!

[solid elbow]

same

[dense burrow]

I am SO UNHAPPY with this decision, in a game championing inclusivity and escapism into a safe place, we are now going to feel poor, underclass citizens for not having real money in the real life. I can pay a sub for a service, but i can't justify myself buying ingame items. In a game where combat isn't a gameplay loop so numbers don't matter, cosmetics are the focus... this will be pay to "win" the cosmetic advancement.

[languid anchor]

it always starts with "cosmetics first" then evolves into micro transactions to craft items, and to expand inventory space etc

[buoyant heath]

Length of time on the Discord wasn't a factor in selection. (as far as we know)

[remote latch]

I’ll hook out the quote later but they tried a stamina and energy system and didn’t like it so got rid of it

[earnest pumice]

always the alpha testers saying things like that lol

[final herald]

wooo f2p!

[opal sphinx]

hopefully, i absolutely cannot wait to finally get an invite someday

[wintry warren]

🆓

[languid anchor]

if u can pay for one thing but cant justify paying for another, that sounds like ayou problem

[celest maple]

NVM

[wheat tundra]

Good.

[wheat heron]

"Free"

[sudden shoal]

Well in a game like Warframe cosmetics are the endgame even though that was never really intended (and in that game you can get most cosmetics through gameplay, as well as paying for it), and I could see that being the case for this game as well

[opal sphinx]

^

[patent dust]

lets keep it civil

[wintry wasp]

FF14's true endgame is cosmetics. lol

[sudden shoal]

oh yeah I've heard of that too lol

[wheat heron]

And you get them by playing hte game.

[patent minnow]

Same for Elder Scrolls Online, basically

[robust bluff]

So probably dumb question, I signed up a really long time ago when limited testing was first announced, is there a way to figure out which email I used?

[crimson gazelle]

Cosmetics are also locked behind a currency market (you can earn currency but you must trade with people that bought this currency)

[wheat heron]

Sure there's a small and limited cash shop, but no one has ever said the best looking things in FF14 are from the cash shop.

[signal dagger]

I think if clothes will provide stat bonuses paid cosmetics will be visually applied with no additional stat bonuses

[wintry wasp]

stares at his list of cash shop cosmetics ... Yes. Playing the game...

[rocky kiln]

do we have a release date ? or just alpha rn?

[real tartan]

NOT that its important, but will there be boobie scalers?

[viral roost]

Hey guys, it’s looking like I missed some kind of big announcement - will anyone update me please?

[sudden shoal]

And I'm okay with that personally, I don't care if some rich dude got all my stuff instantly by paying money, so long as I'm able to get it by playing it

[scarlet patrol]

in a game about cosmetics and collectables, whether that's personal cosmetics or house cosmetics, you can guarantee all the cool stuff is going to be behind a paywall. Grind for 100 hours or pay $5?

[pallid igloo]

I will say that having been at the studio now for a while, I am continuously impressed with the values and ethics that all our developers are committed to. I firmly believe that we have a good checks and balances system, and our investment in player happiness is a top priority.

[rocky kiln]

LMAO

[half nacelle]

Free to play with another game, meh

[elfin goblet]

Actually having the same issue here. Can't access the alpha channels and the email links take me to unloadable pages.

[crimson gazelle]

Game is free to play

[lethal valve]

Did you actually read the blog by the team?

[hidden nexus]

Thought Palia was gonna b free

[worthy rose]

this is very important

[fathom cairn]

yknow, i hope so cause I want butt slider too

[vapid field]

Is there any body streaming the game right now !?

[patent dust]

no release date, only in alpha currently

[wheat heron]

Palia is free to play. The best cosmetics will be gated behind a credit card.

[rocky kiln]

thank you

[untold hollow]

GG good luck! Hope it works out 🙂

[hidden nexus]

LOL typical

[crisp rampart]

True end game is inventory management imo 😅

[pulsar siren]

Are cosmetics gonna be time limited items or will all available items be there at all times? So no time pressure to purchase anything hence eliminating FOMO about missing an item

[sudden shoal]

did not expect that question for this game but I'm not complaining

[worthy rose]

that's literally just speculation lol

[wintry wasp]

It also doesn't help that people keep buying me outfits for some reason. Apparently I'm a dress-up femboy bunny!

[pallid igloo]

For anyone who is upset about Palia being free: It is completely valid to feel this way. We at the studio are aware of the ways that it can feel bad - and it is on us to earn your trust.

[wheat heron]

? of what?

[lethal valve]

They just announced it's free to play, and I wanted to say I'm over the moon to hear that. I have 7 kids, buying games for our family to enjoy together is difficult!!

[tribal bone]

Hmm

[sudden shoal]

We don't know that. Don't spread misinformation please

[dense burrow]

@languid anchor right, it is starting... the divide between p2w and f2p... i would pay a sub for all the content, i am sure all the content would be way too much for a sub price...

[real tartan]

I know I know, I just want to make my character look alike as much as possible

[crimson gazelle]

Yes, that still doesn't reassure me, especially with ''we’ll evaluate more spaces as time goes on''

[lethal valve]

this gives us something to spend time together in, and I appreciate that so much!

[lucid nexus]

How to become a beta tester

[hidden nexus]

Typical free game that is probably gonna launch big

[viral roost]

I feel like we always expected it to be free to play with optional cosmetic purchases OR a small cost with nothing, with mobile development being emphasised I assumed the foremost, however it is a shame

[wheat heron]

I'm legitimately asking for even one example of a single free to play game where that isn't the case. I don't think that's an unfair question.

[patent dust]

you can sign up at palia.com!

[celest maple]

Imagine having to apologize for making something free xd Idek what to say

[opal sphinx]

do they ever send out more invites or are they over now?

[rocky kiln]

^

[ashen comet]

Well there goes my interest for the game.. A game with a strong focus on customization and cosmetics.. With cosmetics in-game purchases :/

[real tartan]

But if any dev sees this, feel free to get back to me. I am very patient.

[somber geyser]

I can't wait to play this! Any idea on when it'll be available???

[peak junco]

I would prefer if it's subscription because this is a social game. Cosmetics are literally p2w for this kind of game. Unfortunately based on general awareness of this game I don't think there will be a large enough following of people willing to actually pay for it for subscription to be viable :(

[rocky kiln]

complains about being free but will also complain for having to pay so weird

[wheat heron]

I'm in this discord because I want hte game to be good and I want to see it succeed. I'm not in here to bad mouth the game. But F2P seems good until you see all of the cool looking stuff you can't get because you're already living paycheck to paycheck

[rocky kiln]

i don't like subscriptions like WOW such a waste

[vapid field]

Is it going yo be available on Steam ?

[lethal valve]

it would prevent a significant number of people from getting to play

[patent dust]

no specific date for release just yet, but they estimate in around 2 years or so

[untold hollow]

Can't make everyone happy sadly.

[sudden shoal]

Warframe, technically. You get someone else to pay for it instead, which I'm okay with

[pallid igloo]

The latest updates from Palia:

-- All invites for Alpha have been sent. They would be from [e-mail]. Please check your spam and promotions folders!

-- We have announced Palia will be free, with cosmetics-only purchases. Read the whole blog here: https://palia.com/palia-business-model/

[muted ether]

Dear S6,
I admire your courage and your promise of transparency. You mention several topics of importance to the current video game market, such as exploitative monetisation and developer working conditions, in a way that shows you understand the core issue and have the intention of avoiding these problems.
I wish it were ten years earlier and I could have been wholeheartedly excited for that announcement. But as things stand, Palia sounds too good to be true. I'll keep watching what you do, but I've been burned too often to hold out hope.
Those are strong words you put out, and I would love nothing more than for you to stand by them.

[celest maple]

Precisely because its a social game that being free is better. Free = more accessible = more social interactions. P2W? Seriously, just play the game and enjoy the journey. If you really like a cosmetic you can buy it

[wintry wasp]

And you people need to remember... S6 isn't run by a massive corporation where the decisions about the game are made by some useless CEO who can barely even use a computer. So we SHOULD look at this F2P as a chance to see it done right.

[warm wraith]

No fomo and no random boxes is huge though in the MMO space!

[median thicket]

F2P with micro transactions is the future. Get used to it

[pallid igloo]

We hope to continue feeling too good to be true for many years to come

[wintry wasp]

Plus as long as there's a way to gift cash shop items, just find yourself a sugar partner :p

[severe sphinx]

test test do i have the alpha role

[bold mirage]

Have all of the Alpha keys been sent already or are they still rolling out?

[rocky kiln]

some people can't pay for games or wanna waste money on games when they have other expenses to deal with so this is good

[half nacelle]

Yes

[real tartan]

How do we sign up for future testing?

[patent dust]

you do!

[celest maple]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news :/

[undone sand]

.

[lyric ocean]

I do not mind free to play, it depends on how it will be approached at the end of the day. It is too early to make a judgement on how it will work. Having not even got to try the game myself.

[tranquil mist]

Good luck and have fun to all those that got invites, seems i'l have to wait which is ok i guess.

[patent minnow]

But what do you really have invested in it? Hopefully not much until you can play it and try it for yourself.

[autumn zenith]

Are you sure they been sent?, don't seem to have my email yet 😉 😭

[rocky kiln]

and people that can pay or wanna pay can help keep the game alive

[untold hollow]

Agreed! It's a win win really

[odd needle]

Plenty of free to play games that have had success of cosmetic only stores. :) It's a safe way to do it.

[pallid igloo]

They have all been sent 🙂

[sand canyon]

was hoping for alpha for my birthday, no dice 😦 oh well, gotta wait longer!

[teal burrow]

Hay plz keep the game free I’ve been waiting forever for this news

[warm wraith]

I think my email might have been missed too haha T_T

[viral roost]

I feel like the best business model for Palia going forwards would be a battlepass sort of system alongside a couple of optional cosmetics too, this would have to be accompanied by seemingly endless amounts of customisable items attainable through gameplay though

[rough crest]

oh

[bold mirage]

aww Maybe next time

[rocky kiln]

valorant and league of legends is free + cosmetic and it works why can't this game ?

[buoyant heath]

That's what I enjoyed about Warframe

[warm wraith]

Get 40 kills in the Palia battle royale mode to unlock the next gift! 😄

[true kite]

If Palia will be free does anyone know if they intend to limit interaction in zones so we can reduce trolling, as every F2P mmo I've played has had a slew of racism/pedophiles/etc openly show their whole butthole in game

[native iron]

F2P with cosmetics is fine and glad there's no loot boxes at least, but I feel there should be a reward for those who accomplish achievements or log in daily to receive credits to use in the store.

[viral roost]

More like cut down 200 trees

[warm wraith]

hahaha fair enough

[half nacelle]

Agree

[rocky kiln]

#codes

[buoyant heath]

Oof, I really don't like battlepasses. There's no winning in this scenario, everyone has a setup they like the best.

[proven cypress]

re: "p2w" concerns

Being that Palia, I thought, was supposed to be chill, is there... something you'd "win" at?

Or is "p2w" short for pay 2 wear?

[peak junco]

The two most popular MMOs in the US are subscription based. It's been show it won't stop that many

[celest maple]

As long as not all customizations are locked behind microtransactions its really not a big deal. To be able to work for something and have fun is good. If you want more than can pay for it.

[pallid igloo]

We have a lot of great social devs on our team, and will be talking more directly about this in the future. You can expect similar communications like what were received today 🙂

[rough crest]

how do I join alpha

[weary adder]

is anyone streaming palia

[warm wraith]

You have to be invited

[buoyant heath]

This allows the most people to play and doesn't put any boundaries in the gameplay

[rocky kiln]

sign up

[worthy rose]

I am going to win talking to people and you can't stop me

[scarlet patrol]

It's not a question of whether f2p is good or bad, it's that the game is being developed for money. The game is going to be structured to make you want to get out your credit card. you'll end up paying more than you would for a sub, for a game that isn't as fun to play because the gameplay is no longer the focus. History has shown time and again that this is how every f2p game goes.

[rough crest]

i signed up like months ago but idk how to check if i got it

[wintry wasp]

Fair thing to point out, but Riot also runs on the idea of impulse shopping since they do non-stop extreme limited time skins for high costs. The blog post says none of that crap here.

[warm wraith]

Can't stream there is an NDA

[rocky kiln]

they email you i think

[celest maple]

True, kinda like runescape. They have F2P worlds and members world. Members can alternate between the two of course. But its subscription based so kinda hard to do that with cosmetics I guess

[true kite]

Great thank you for the reply :) I have concerns with F2P as every MMO I've played that went that route went...not the best direction. Thanks again.

[patent dust]

alpha invites are already done, so you cannot gain access at this time :/ but if you signup at palia.com, you could get into future testing phases!

[pallid igloo]

Alpha is under NDA 🙂

[rocky kiln]

that's true

[weary adder]

oh okat

[fading urchin]

:<

[iron vine]

Alpha gang we out here

[rough crest]

if i got a code in the email what adress wwould it be sent by?

[peak junco]

The people of the game is the journey and building up your house/neighborhood. If the neighboring town or your neighbors themselves can just buy their way to the same thing as you it cheapens the experience

[rocky kiln]

i wonder if my pc can run this game

[patent dust]

[e-mail]

[fading urchin]

Literally just saw this cause of a friend's RT, dang

[viral roost]

My worry with Palia being free to play is that the best cosmetics will be behind paywall, there will be an abundance of very good cosmetics attainable through gameplay but over time the free ones, even those considered rare, will become commonplace and the paid ones will be the only ones with any real exclusivity, unless the gameplay has depths of gameplay similar to the likes of WoW where the top cosmetics are still a flex because they’re so hard to get

[brittle adder]

Wait so is paying the only way to get cosmetics like clothes? "Ultimately, we believe that by separating these systems, we can ensure that we’re always designing what’s best for gameplay while selling products that are worth purchasing for what they are." I'm not sure if this means that all cosmetics are microtransations or if only some of them are

[wheat heron]

Every MMO in existence has cosmetics as the ultimate goal. Palia has always marketed itself as an MMO where the primary focus was gathering and building your own stuff. Gating the best cosmetics behind a cash shop is the very definition of pay 2 win. Like... that's literally what it means.

[peak junco]

If the goal of the game is aquirable with money it's p2w

[rough crest]

oh I didn't get in

[pulsar siren]

Are cosmetics gonna be time limited items or will all available items be there at all times?

[vapid field]

.

[brave thorn]

Amelia, may I send you a DM for responding later (which is non-Alpha/non-Palia related but important for your attention)?

[celest maple]

Well you worked hard in game for it and they worked hard irl for it. I dont see the problem xd In the end people need to get paid. I doubt its gonna be as simple as paying to buy the biggest house, best furnisher, I assume its more reskins?

[real tartan]

If I can have a pug as a pet I will be set

[pallid igloo]

As the community lead for Palia, I am also personally invested in this 🤣

[raw kite]

Announcement of free to play has reduced my excitement for it. Shame. :(

[hidden glacier]

Are they releasing it on steam?

[sudden shoal]

Personally I don't like the idea of "splitting" the fanbase like that, sounds kinda weird

[fickle phoenix]

FREE-NINETY-NINE Let’s GOOOOOO

[rough crest]

beta access when? :pausechamp:

[burnt grail]

Free??? Maaaan, what a surprise!

[peak junco]

Then you don't see a problem with p2w, you don't disagree it is p2w which is entirely separate

[iron vine]

does anyone know how I can get access to the alpha channels?

[eager quiver]

helo again frens

[lethal valve]

Solidarity, fellow CM ❤️

[pallid igloo]

This is a super valid concern, Sa - it's something we talk a lot about as a studio as we craft our plans 🙂

[sudden shoal]

99% sure it's only gonna be some of them

[scarlet scroll]

@iron vine when you register your Alpha Account / Key you have to put oyur Discord ID in Registration

[lethal valve]

You're doing amazing work!

[patent dust]

unknown at this time :/ but it shouldnt be too far off based on the current and previous testing phases!

[iron vine]

gotcha ty @scarlet scroll

[fickle phoenix]

also I feel like people are really quick to call this p2w. most free to play games in todays day and age are very accessible without the need for p2w mechanics. this is a new decade my dudes

[wintry jolt]

Just saw the annoucment and read the blog... I want the chapaa onesie for my irl toddler 😹

[remote latch]

Hiya Mez

[celest maple]

"P2W", if you're taking this game so competitively then I dont know what to say. Theres no "winning", just do your stuff and enjoy.

[warm wraith]

The game is moving pretty quickly tbh! Beta will be in Q3 by this rate 😄

[worthy rose]

the good part about p2w is that people who are scraping by or are in a rough time can play the game as much as they want. I feel like that's the entire purpose behind an escapist community game like palia is supposed to be?

[rough crest]

yaY

[craggy imp]

I am not against free to play, but it does cause me to get skeptical. I don't think it is unreasonable for a good game to demand a price for admission. When a game goes free to play it often makes me wonder if the devs don't feel it is worth the price of admission...

[azure sierra]

When will it be out to play?

[rough crest]

how do I sign up for beta? @pallid igloo

[lethal valve]

or, they want to include everyone 🙂

[tacit flame]

Same

[crimson gazelle]

Until I see the game and how it + the shop operate, I will stay unsure. I hope this game is an exception from all the free to play games that are hungry for whales. I think everyone that is concerned has the right to think that way, because the gaming market is full of disappointments. Still, fingers crossed this game will be an exception. 🤞

[eager quiver]

how do you pay to win at chilling with Chappa?

[sudden shoal]

Personally I think WoW is a bit of a bad example, because yeah there are certain things that serve as a status symbol as a professional neckbeard, but that game's free mounts look generally worse than the ones in the store, which I really dislike

[digital snow]

I think it's rare that f2p games are p2w, but I believe Palia can be one of those games where it'll be successful at not being p2w and more community focused MMO.

[viral roost]

I’m sure whatever the outcome, the execution will be great, the devs are experienced and will take notendop what works and doesn’t in other communities, they wouldn’t make a bad decision, it wouldn’t make sense, we just need to have faith and see what happens 🙂

[warm wraith]

Free to play also attracts a way bigger audience as there is no entry bar. Giving the game an even bigger oppertunity to grow

[true kite]

This would allow people who want to support the game the ability to pay for it while also allowing people wo just wanna play F2P the ability to do so. I'd rather be able to play with friends I trust privately if we're going F2P because of my personal experience in F2P games, but it does = population would be reduced in zones if they went that route. I'd personally prefer it. Others wouldn't. 🤔

[patent dust]

i ask that people give it a chance before jumping ship. Give the devs a chance to earn the trust of the community

[fading tiger]

How would this even constitute being p2w? Unless they put stats on it, it's just cosmetic. Only thing you might win is a fashion contest

[rocky kiln]

i just hope my pc can run this game

[lethal valve]

You can't pay to win, in a game without competition

[pallid igloo]

Submit your email on palia.com !

[undone rover]

I mean how does one "win" at palia lol

[warm wraith]

buy more friends 😄

[digital snow]

I believe Lost Art is similar to Blade & Soul atm where everyone is in honeymoon phase right now, but Korean MMOs have not been successful at making P2W.

[rigid silo]

Hi, as soon as I saw the game I fell in love and I registered to have the opportunity to participate in the alpha of the game, is it normal that I have not received any email regarding the news or if I have at least registered? Looking for the word "Palia" in my mail I found nothing.

[jagged saddle]

I just tapped in to see the GAME GON BE FREE??

[lethal valve]

are you going to out-nice your nextdoor neighbor? 😛

[real tartan]

I don't get why everyone is scared. Is it cause you're worried the game will flop? So far Alpha testing, Frequent Updates, and an Active community with known devs seems pretty promising. All I can say is don't get your hopes up and nothing will disappoint you

[viral roost]

I don’t entirely disagree, I was just trying to share the idea of ‘rare’ free mounts such as the Lucid Nightmare or the likes

[tacit flame]

I really do not like the monetization of cosmetics route theyre going for, i much rather grind 10 hours than pay $2 for a look. Especially when they always emphasized “be you and whatever you want” which isn’t achievable when all nice cosmetics are locked behind real money

[raw kite]

Agree with this take 100%

[sudden shoal]

Yeah, you're right about that

[digital snow]

Exactly my point. lol I don't think Palia's gameplay is made for that. lol

[hoary fulcrum]

Hello everyone 🙂 What was the ping for?

[eager quiver]

its free. id be more than happy to give it every chance. one of my first MMOs that got me into the genre was a free P2W game called Gates of Andaron (4story)

[void scroll]

well do anybody know if theres going to be a cap on the leveling of life skills

[jagged saddle]

Palia gonna be free

[peak junco]

I'm still going to try because I like the base direction of the game. I'm just hoping it doesn't go the route of literally every single other mtx MMO where it's more efficient for me to spend a day of my paycheck then a week ingame

[celest maple]

from what I understand about Palia and what I think this game is going to be I honestly don't think there's any reason to be concerned with the lack of payment needed to play. It seems like most of the payments will be focused on clothing, and just general accessories, like maybe furniture packs ect

[hoary fulcrum]

Wow!

[celest maple]

Yeah I feel same way to some extent. Of course doesnt have to be based on paying. RS has worlds that the higher your level the more access to different worlds you have. But yeah splitting player base is meh, for a large game it wouldnt be that bad though,

[wheat heron]

Ah well, I guess there's just no answers to be had in here. Where's my "hater" flag so I can just be known as that guy? Every MMO player ever knows free to play means "we're not confident enough in our product to charge people money for it, so we'll fund it by gating the best stuff behind a credit card". The fact that that's not addressed directly in the blogpost speaks volumes. Not to mention not responding to anyone in here about those concerns and the blind yesmen. RIP my excitement for Palia. =/ Here's hoping I'm wrong for the first time ever about a f2p game

[worthy rose]

buying the game or paying a monthly sub is also not achievable for a lot of people. There is no absolute correct answer

[real tartan]

No one has invested money into the game yet right? So not really much to be afraid of when there's steady content announcements

[viral roost]

We definitely shouldn’t jump to any conclusions, I’m sure it’ll be fine when it comes out, they’ve obviously designed the monetisation around the finished game - of which we as consumers don’t know much about

[crimson gazelle]

We have concerns because almost every single f2p game has horrendous monetizations/walls. We are just concerned. We wouldn't join the server if we were just hating.

[peak junco]

I wouldn't mind as much for Palia if cosmetics weren't the entire point of the game

[true kite]

A lot of the MMOs that went F2P tend to lose their player base very quickly as F2P attracts people who join and download the game exclusively to troll and be abusive to players. A mini paywall such as a sub or even a buy-to-play puts a damper on ppl who don't wanna waste 10-15 bucks to be a butthole

[patent dust]

theres no newsletter that we know of yet, or a confirmation that you signed up for anything. due to not wanting to be listed as spam by the email providers, they couldnt do this quite yet. if you havnt received any emails, unfortunately you were not selected for this round of testing

[kindred quest]

can palia cost money so i can biy it

[real tartan]

But a lot of MMO's arent slice of life MMO's right?

[quasi stone]

I would be fine with having supporter packs I suppose, like I give them $20 and they give me some cool skins or whatever. I do feel like the game being free is a bit sketch because I don't wanna have to spend money on things like furniture, I'd rather just buy the game once and play and then get neat skins if the mood strikes. I like how gulld wars does it

[tacit flame]

True but like honestly, i so much more wish for the game to just cost money in order to have free cosmetics

[digital snow]

Very disappointed by Lost Ark being UE3. You can tell that it'll have its shortcomings in a few years as Blade & Soul. Long initial load time and micro stutters, etc. Also the fact that UE3 can mainly support 2 cores at best when 4+ cores are the standard today.

[real tartan]

I feel like due to it being distinctly slice of life | rp etc. It's not going to bring those issues

[rocky kiln]

is there pc specs for this game yet?

[burnt grail]

Honestly with how much transparent they've been until now I don't understand the worrying. Paying for cosmetic has always been very good for games, it's paying for obtainable item which created an advantage, and you can't do it here, so it's cool everybody!

[rigid silo]

Thanks for the reply

[celest maple]

I have never seen a harvest moon animal crossing type MMO before tbh so I'm excited for this one personally

[quick sigil]

No, but look at sites like Gaia Online and how ridiculous monetization got for cosmetic items there. I appreciate the lack of lootboxes but...hmn.

[viral roost]

It’s to my understanding that the centrepiece of Palia isn’t cosmetics, but the sense of community, if you want good gameplay but brilliant social experiences, this seems to be the spot

[rocky kiln]

is free realms gonna come back

[real tartan]

@rocky kiln Maybe :(

[real shore]

someone is making it yes

[rocky kiln]

yay!

[real tartan]

@quick sigil Okay yeah thats a fair point. I think a battle pass system might help this game too

[jagged saddle]

My guess that there is gonna be a good chunk of premium content for monetization, if anyone plays Sea of thieves, think pirate emporium, or like battle passes, just don't go overboard S6

[patent dust]

they havnt released anything official, but the requirements are quite low. Buscobear (one of the devs) has stated that they can run multiple clients at once on a sub-par pc

[sturdy ingot]

my opinion on it i think is that f2p with cosmetic mtx can be done right, but it needs a lot of care and consideration. to mention an example, there’s a game called Sky: Children of the Light that i would argue does f2p MTX really well, with most ingame cosmetic items being earnable through gameplay, and some being locked behind season passes (however you still need to work for them). if you want cosmetic MTX, then in my opinion the biggest thing you’ll wanna focus on is not creating a divide between the players who pay and those who don’t - Sky does this by making every cosmetic need a similar amount of work, whether it’s locked behind the season pass or not. that way, the cosmetics that are free don’t become overused or stale (because some of them actually take longer to unlock than the paid ones, which makes them more exclusive, but still free). thats just my onion though

[worthy rose]

I mean this is a new studio making a new genre of game for a new audience. We're all hoping that the boat is as good as it sounds

[quasi stone]

I'm just concerned all the good stuff will be locked behind microtransactions is all

[rocky kiln]

thank you

[whole geode]

Evening all.

[spiral ice]

Yeah I'm glad at the transparency, but I'm not too excited to see it's free. I'd rather pay upfront, and perhaps for expansions...but free makes me uneasy.

[jagged saddle]

true, I've seen games fall because of that

[inner scaffold]

it will heavily depend on how much they will try to advertise paid content. there's a sweetspot where it becomes so annoying that you want to quit. obviously different spot for each person. but overall I think that continuous cashflow through micro transactions is a much more sustainable way to ensure this game gets love and attention from the devs even after some years. and I hate subscription-based model so yeah I welcome F2P

[jagged saddle]

starwars battlefront cough

[mint steppe]

Paila is free?!

[brittle adder]

Honestly I feel the opposite. Stirring up a calm community is all the more enticing to people looking for attention like that.

[patent dust]

yes!

[astral urchin]

I can't wait to play this game. So hyped for it. Just please don't make it pay to win. All cosmetic stuffs payment accepted on my end.

[celest maple]

Yeah if this was a combat game and they were selling items that can give you advantage thats P2W. But this game is slice of life, at least from my perspective. Of course it can still be done poorly if a lot of the cosmetics are locked behind MTX and only obtainable through that but its so early I dont think this outrage is called for.

[hallow rock]

Y’all would be shocked by just how much money social players will pay for cosmetics. I’m on a server where some people pay hundreds of dollars a month for furniture and unique items. Minimum is 20 a month. Purely social and deco community

[mint steppe]

Omg! Yea!

[sudden shoal]

I will say that due to it being a community-based MMO, that might make it more of a magnet for trolls to create accounts just to harass people. So far this seems to be the only really substantial issue from all this, imo

[inner scaffold]

star wars battlefront had gameplay elements pretty much locked behind microtransactions. that's way different

[keen blade]

@viral roost I agree!!!

[sly chasm]

Why does it have to be p2w if it is just cosmetic? Factor what you'd be willing to pay for admission and a sub and set that as your own personal budget for cash shop. Maybe that means you get fancy outfits or maybe just what you earn in game. Neither is winning or losing :-) no one is disadvantaged or prevented from having fun with this which is nice.

[mint steppe]

I’ll pay for cosmetics! I don’t care!

[undone rover]

Nice pfp🤨

[digital snow]

Genshin's F2P kinda sucks where you're limited by what you can do daily with resin which is energy. Also the Gacha system sucks. I feel like the gacha should be optional if you want a character ahead of time and you would still be able to get all characters for free eventually as you progress through the story.

[azure cape]

I just hope the cosmetics through f2p content hold up comparably to cosmetics people bought with money.

[celest maple]

Lol dude, I worked on a small game with couple hundred players and some players would shell out thousands for cosmetics. A month.

[wintry wasp]

I do kind of hope I can get some really silly and wild outfits between in game effort and the shop, honestly. It just amuses me how much negative energy is coming at Palia right now when I didn't see much/any of that about New World's cash shop... Or Lost Ark...

[jagged saddle]

Luckily since we don't need to worry about pvp and loosing loot and such, trolls won't have as much of an impact as others

[crimson gazelle]

Just a reminder to not overhype the game guys/gals! The best experience is when you have no expectations.

[fiery gale]

I feel like you can't really judge the mtx system until we're able to actually see it. If it were too much of a problem upon release, I'm sure the devs here would hear us, listen to us, and do their best to make it consumer friendly.

[celest maple]

This!!!

[mystic gale]

I love that Tamala is now a permanent 🤔 emoji

[molten turtle]

Honestly, I'm excited for it to be free, as long as it isn't full of items exclusive to a time period, such as a battle pass.

[wheat heron]

Pay to win just means that you get an advantage over people who don't pay money. Unlike most MMOs, Palia is marketing itself to revolve almost exclusively around cosmetics. So, by definition, gating the best cosmetics behind a pay well... is pay to win.

[void scroll]

i think that genshins gactha is actually done great and it works great with the game

[real tartan]

Did they confirm player marriage btw?

[patent dust]

thats jel :p

[inner scaffold]

yeah quit genshin because of that. I wanna play this character and my only way is to spend an unknown amount of money to wish for it until I unlock. no thanks

[jagged saddle]

absolutely, just take it day by day. can't rush anything though

[digital snow]

Look at FFXIV, people shell out thousands for Fantasias (which is a potion that allows you to change your character's appearance.)

[jolly wasp]

Really? I thought the entire point of the game was farming, foraging, adventuring, crafting, decorating your house, building relationships with the NPCs, etc.

[buoyant heath]

Is there any way we could make the game more free?

[wintry wasp]

New World's shop was HORRIBLE because you could just buy end game cosmetics at level 1. And it was all stuff you could get ingame if I recall right...

[patent dust]

not yet, but its something that may happen in the future! there will be romance tho!

[topaz knot]

It really feels like nobody read the blog...

[worthy rose]

I feel called out

[sly chasm]

But we don't know they are the best or not. Just different options.

[timid summit]

Base game for FFXIV and Destiny 2 are free

[odd needle]

Of course not, lol

[real tartan]

I will create my own romance

[celest maple]

Because they didnt lol

[wintry wasp]

I haven't spent THAT much... yet

[inner scaffold]

I can't fucking read

[sudden shoal]

So true, this pretty much screws over everyone involved: The game, the devs, the players. It's just a bad time in general to place too many expectations

[frank hollow]

if free how will they monetize it??

[undone rover]

Cosmetics

[inner scaffold]

this guy neither

[hollow musk]

i'm just here looking for my Palia wife

[wheat heron]

Come on now. Don't let your excitement for the game blind you THAT much.

[mint steppe]

so excited! Can’t wait to play.

[patent dust]

careful what you say in here

[topaz knot]

Tl;Dr only clothes will be stuff you buy.
Everything else you earn

[tepid terrace]

I think it's mostly because they're made by Amazon, people expected it more I guess?

[wintry wasp]

Read the blog post linked in #📢│palia-news ! It does help answer a lot.

[fringe ether]

I echo a lot of the sentiments here. F2P can be good it done right, but it’s hard to get right, so many have gotten it wrong. I am just hoping for the best.

[faint dawn]

As far as I can remember... People never read the FAQs

[buoyant heath]

I will call you back in

[digital snow]

Except a lot of players like me quit because of it. Especially since you already have to pull a character multiple times so they could've at least giving us 1 for free. The resin system also prevents people from playing their game more which is counter productive because now you're limiting the players on how much they can play.

[little silo]

Event is on Elden Ring launch day. Don't make me choose...

[undone rover]

I'm fairly sure cosmetics are not the main point of the game

[wintry wasp]

Lost Ark is only being hosted/Published by Amazon. It's made overseas and a 4 year old game with new game day 1 problems lol how?

[fringe ether]

Agree that the genshin limits are what has made me stay away from it.

[stone tulip]

I see alpha has officially started, nice!

[craggy bobcat]

PALIA FREE LETS GOOOOOO

[mint steppe]

Let’s be fair here. They have to make money to support the game. It’s a business.

[topaz knot]

I get not reading the faqs all the time but a blog post that literally explains 90% of the questions I'm seeing is sad lol

[void scroll]

yerh the timegating with the resin is truly bad but i just feel like genshin is just ligthly gatch cus of how fast you actually aquare most of the charecters

[digital snow]

xD It's true, but FFXIV is also a great game because I like the fact that characters are not class/job locked and can play all of them on one character. Hope Palia follows that too. Alts get tiring when main quests have to be repeated because you want to try out a different class like in WoW.

[celest maple]

whoa! its FREE?? oh thats a load off my mind! grins wide

[sudden shoal]

What I can predict is that, if the game launches with a very friendly monetization system, it'll only be able to sustain itself if it starts with a passionate playerbase that'll be able to keep the game afloat until it becomes really famous. So many MMOs have failed due to having a bad launch, and only few were able to recover

[iron vine]

For the alpha, do I login using my email? it doesn't seem to be working'

[fringe ether]

I wish I got in! 😭 but am excited for the progress!

[patent dust]

i HIGHLY encourage people with concerns to read the blog post thats pinned here and in #📢│palia-news

[celest maple]

Dont say that here, youll be lynched xd

[true prairie]

FFXIV also did not have a free trial to being with, and you cannot play the whole game on the free trial. There were already a ton of paying players.

[wheat heron]

The FAQ at the bottom of Palia.com seems to suggest pretty heavily that it is. "A massive-multiplayer community sim game." The comparisons have almost exclusively revolved around Animal Crossing and Harvest Moon... Where the ultimate end-goal is pretty much exclusively cosmetic.

[timber spindle]

Will there be in game currency as well?

[frank hollow]

people be like alpha code where >.>

[stone tulip]

Same here, but no point in getting upset when we have confirmation the game is actively being played in real time

[scarlet patrol]

The blog post says cosmetic clothing is only the beginning of what they are going to monetize. Let's not be naive about this. A large open-world community game requires servers, upkeep costs, staff they have to keep paying, not to mention recouping development costs and funding future expansions. this game will be heavily monetized. Maybe not at first, but eventually its going to be a swamp of mtx. either that, or its going to die out and vanish.

[celest maple]

i just wish there was a way for us to get started....cant wait for the official launch

[sudden shoal]

Funny you mention that, at the start people were like "Nooo!!! I wanna buy the game! Take my money!"
Needless to say it was an interesting reaction not even the devs may have expected

[reef wyvern]

for what genshin does, its a very good f2p tho. theres much worse which makes u pay for anything. genshin rlly only wants that from u if u want a character badly. and even then, u can get that without spending money.

[vast steppe]

I'll just throw my thoughts in the void.

• Lots of f2p games with cosmetic purchasable items have been wildly successful monetarily. This is a great model.
• Don't confuse f2p with p2w. Cosmetic items won't change your gameplay.
• There will be trolls in the game no matter what. Paying 10-15$ doesn't stop people from being turds.

[inner scaffold]

I paid an ungodly amount of monthly subs to WoW without playing it and I always felt bad for not playing even though I pay. I hated that. Genuinely think that I would've played more often if it wasn't for that subscription even though I had one. It's weird but having this nagging feeling in my mind when I didn't play "hey, you paid this month again, you should play" made me not wanna play

[true prairie]

I'm sure they have it all figured out, but it seems hard to fund an MMO and continued development on only cosmetics. They'll have to sell a metric load of cosmetics

[patent dust]

there is an in-game economy, but they havnt gone into detail about it just yet

[undone rover]

The blog literally says that they will not make you pay for core gameplay stuff

[cursive lark]

@vast steppe "- Lots of f2p games with cosmetic purchasable items have been wildly successful monetarily. This is a great model." Please name one good example, just curious

[celest maple]

I think the main issue is that a flat fee wont be able to support the game long term and subscription fee wont be as accessible to everyone. Free + mtx for cosmetics is a sweet spot

[sudden shoal]

You're certainly right about the last point, but I do feel like having it be free makes it wayyy easier for that kinda thing to happen, you know?

[void scroll]

exatly

[little silo]

Wait and see. ./end thread

[mint steppe]

hides I’ll pay money for cosmetics.

[astral vale]

Good luck to all, hope many are lucky with Alpha invites 🙂

[timber spindle]

Ah ok. Any plans to do like an in game auction house?

[inner scaffold]

Animal Crossing Pocket Camp comes to mind

[timid summit]

On a similar note, Naraka Bladepoint lost a lot of its tester player base when they announced they were not going to be free then charged players for every bit of extra content (skins, weapons, levels, characters, expansions).

Just because Palia is starting free doesn’t mean it can’t charge for the same things. But “free” will keep/increase its player base.

[vast steppe]

Here's 2. League of Legends. Valorant. 😄

[cursive lark]

isn't AC b2p?

[rocky kiln]

im a loser for spending hundreds on those games

[wintry wasp]

Speak for yourself! Cosmetics totally change how I play MMOs! :p

[topaz knot]

Isn't fortnight f2p and does heavy stuff with cosmetics?

[remote latch]

This is the only dev comment back in June 21 in response to a similar question - #❓│old-team-answers-pre-alpha message

[opaque creek]

Free is good. Can't wait

[sudden shoal]

Path of Exile, Lost Ark (at least in Korea for a couple years), League (hey it's "successful" isn't it?), TF2

[patent dust]

that is also unknown at this time. they did state they have a unique was of trade between players, but also have not fully revealed this. being only in alpha, a lot of things can change, and a lot of different methods are being tested

[signal dagger]

entirely f2p excluding save the world mode

[buoyant heath]

I'd like to welcome all the people who are posting here for the first time today

[inner scaffold]

Animal Crossing Pocket Camp is the mobile game which is free. you can buy cosmetics there.

[little silo]

Lol

[fiery gale]

It seems people are more upset about the game having paid cosmetics than the game being free itself. I personally would much rather play a free MMO and be able to buy $10 cosmetics when I want to, as opposed to spending $11 a month every month like I currently do for OldSchool RuneScape.

[timber spindle]

Oh ok thank you

[cursive lark]

These are wildly competitive games with milions of players daily

[raw quest]

I think it will largely be dependent on pricing

[frank hollow]

dadjoke i have a good one for you

[digital snow]

Lost Ark started development in 2011, so I already consider that a 11 yr old game from a developer's pov. They could've taken the roadmap and swapped over to UE4 in 2014. The game released in Korea in 2018. While in development, it is much cheaper taking 3 years off and swapping over the next 5 years to UE4 before release. Now, if they're to swap over to UE4, it'll be even more costly for them. Long term, I don't see Lost Ark being as successful. I've already experienced the hypeness with Blade & Soul. It's not a day one problem. Even Koreans that have been playing the game way before will talk about the game's shortcomings. It's the limitations of UE3 and poor optimization.

[stone tulip]

I'm absolutely one of those people, hello

[cursive lark]

Name one MMORPG that can carry it's weight on cosmetics only

[fringe ether]

Yupyup. I’m not upset, just eager hahah we’ll get in eventually. 🤗

[celest maple]

Agreed, its a social game and subscription fee makes it a lot less accessible. Btw theres a way to get membership on rs for quite cheap

[stone tulip]

Indeed👍
Patience

[frank hollow]

I accidentally got ketchup in my eye. Now I have Heinzsight.

[buoyant heath]

Welcome!

[patent dust]

absolutely amazing lol

[smoky sequoia]

Chat is exploding rn 0.o

[inner scaffold]

I don't know that many MMOs to begin with. What's the model of Guild Wars 2 though? have a friend who constantly asks me to play

[undone rover]

Honestly I don't really plan on buying much but I do want that chapaa onesie they showed in the blog

[jolly wasp]

Except cosmetics are barely a thing in Harvest Moon, and the only element that Palia shares with Animal Crossing is being able to decorate a house which won't be part of the monetization.

[cursive lark]

GW2 is B2P (or at least was for the most time)

[wheat heron]

Hey, I'm glad I don't have to pay for the crafting bench I do all my crafting on. But it does suck that my crafting bench and clothes will only look kinda cool. Whereas that dude with the $5k limit on his Amex gets the mansion and the shiny cool clothes and didn't have to go gather the stuff to do it.

[celest maple]

You buy base game and buy dlcs for flat fee. Btw gw2 is quite nice

[stone tulip]

(Just in case, I was joking👍)

[inner scaffold]

oh okay

[patent dust]

gw2 is f2p (minus expansions) and has a shop for cosmetic and quality of life objects, but nothing too strong

[sudden shoal]

I haven't even heard of any MMOs that even tried that to begin with. So we have no idea whether it'll succeed or not
Though a lot of MMOs do get most of their money from buying comsetics, so I don't see how having only the most profitable thing to monetize would be a bad thing

[vagrant solstice]

I just wonder how they're paying everyone foe the word they've already done for the game...

[remote latch]

Sandre

[signal dagger]

you cannot buy stuff acheivable through gameplay, read the blog

[celest maple]

Trust me, when it launches, all the cosmetic purchases will fund

[cursive lark]

This is not true, there was wildstar after going f2p, it was cosmetics only, we know how it ended

[buoyant heath]

I'm welcoming you anyways

[stone tulip]

Ello🖐

[fringe ether]

Ok, forgive the noob questions what is “mtx”?

[inner scaffold]

Microtransactions

[vagrant solstice]

Yeah trusting someone who named themselves to hacker sounds reasonable 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[undone rover]

It says you can't buy items to build with in the blog also

[cursive lark]

the player base at the start of f2p was enormous

[buoyant heath]

They had a massive capital investment a while back.

[true prairie]

They probably have some kind of investors or seed money. They've said their paying their developers a fair wage, so there has to be some kind of seed fund. Developers in cali arn't cheap

[stone tulip]

Nice, welcome to you too

[fringe ether]

Oooh

[wheat heron]

I didn't say or imply that they would. I said their stuff will look better then anything acquirable in-game. Just like GW2, Genshin, Lost Ark, and every other F2P game in existence.

[raw quest]

I think this sort of monetization is prob the best path for Palia but it'd feel a bit weird that you might not be able to earn any cosmetics for free, even games like Path of Exile or TF2 you get free stuff that you earn

[sudden shoal]

That game was just a mess in general, it was made to be the "antithesis" of WoW. When you make a game like that entirely based on another without being original on your own, that's doomed to fail no matter what you try imo

[stable walrus]

who here likes roleplaying

[true prairie]

https://techcrunch.com/2021/07/01/singularity-6-raises-30m-to-fund-upcoming-fantasy-community-simulation-mmo/ yup there you go

[dire smelt]

hm..as much as i like the F2P idea and some games, i think i will pass on another F2P game. In the End, all got more expensive then the Monthly paid ones, and , imho and experience, most will suffer from F2P in terms of quality.

[topaz knot]

Unless they change what they posted in the blog. Pretty sure they said only clothes. Just clothes would be purchasable. Meaning skinned benches and pretty chandeliers are only earnable

[stone tulip]

Me but I've never done it 😎👉👉

[tawdry flame]

For what it's worth, Path of Exile is F2P and it's one of the most developed and loved ARPGs of all time.

[iron vine]

So how do I get access to the alpha channels again? Do I have to sign in to the game first or something?

[celest maple]

dont knw what u mean

[long shard]

No Alpha code for me 🥲

[raw kite]

I would be less suspicious if the game launched with a 10/20/30 real world money cost along with paid cosmetics. Very very very few "free" games end up costing less than traditional box price and or monthly sub.

[sharp obsidian]

If I recall correctly Wildstar was a competitive MMO? Something about Palia feels different.

[patent dust]

all invited for alpha have already finished, so you cant get in this round :/ but if you sign up at palia.com you can get into future testing phases!

[wheat heron]

They said only clothes at first, and more in the future. I don't think it's a big leap to think premium furniture and housing cosmetics are far behind when that's a huge part of the primary game loop.

[sudden shoal]

You gotta get invited to the alpha I believe, which you can sign up for a chance for it in their website

[grand spade]

wildstar "without being original on your own" what? xD It has unique art style, world creation, humour, combat system and great raids

[smoky sequoia]

As both a game dev and a gamer, here's my take: we haven't seen it yet and it's all about the design. There are ways to design good microtransactions and f2p gameplay. I've played better f2p games than paid games in a lot of instances. They're doing good by us by being upfront and transparent about it.

[raw quest]

This is true but you also still look a certain way with certain gear

[iron vine]

@patent dust I'm already IN the alpha test I received my email.

[remote latch]

They had a big influx of investors last year - this link has links to the report about it #💬│palia-discussions message

[patent dust]

oh! i recommend DMing a dev, or going to the link in #📢│palia-news to get your role

[vagrant solstice]

Thanks, that's an effton of money :o but I like that thr game will be free to play, just as long as everyone is getting their money and rich ppl can buy the outfits so all is well xD

[true prairie]

So they've had to prove to investors that they have some way of making money

[sudden shoal]

What I meant is mostly on its mechanics, and how it wanted to be the exact opposite of WoW in that regard, especially in things like PvP which was... Something.

[raw quest]

We can hope and believe it'll be good, yes and them being this transparent is a good sign

[true prairie]

Its really not if you think about it. Developer cost is extremley high, and running servers for an MMO is expensive.

[jolly wasp]

I don't understand why some people say they can't afford to buy ingame cosmetics but could apparently afford a monthly sub. Just use the money you would have spent on the sub to buy your favorite outfits...

[void scroll]

well do anybody know if theres going to be a cap on the leveling of life skills ???

[wintry wasp]

WildStar was already on the way out the door when they were doing that... The game was just mistake after mistake after a decent launch state.

[remote latch]

I personally don’t know 🙂

[dry tide]

,👀

[sudden shoal]

I don't think anyone's saying they can't afford cosmetics, just that they'd rather pay for a sub

[celest maple]

I think they meant how are they gonna make profit during launch, enough to recoup for their losses (by that I mean the money they need to pay back the investors)

[cursive lark]

That much is true, but in the end the biggest selling point of wildstar after a lot of people left was housing, they tried to monetize it as much as they could, but wasn't enough, although it might have been due to small number of players already

[teal locust]

I don't know why, but the f2p announcement is making me look at it in a different way.

[fringe ether]

I’m hoping they’ll implement a surprise way to earn real money - like in Sea of Thieves, their in game currency that is equivalent to real money is “Ancient Coins.” Every once in awhile for players, extremely rarely, an ancient skelly will pop out of the ground and you have mere moments to kill it and be awarded some of those coins, that you can turn around and buy cosmetics with. It’s very rare and the payout is only like $1-3 but eventually after a few months and with some luck running into them, you’ll have enough to buy 1 cosmetic. It’s a nice and fun system.

[true prairie]

The thing about investors is that you don't give the investors just their money back. The investors get more than they put into it, thats the point of investing in it. Nobody would invest in the game if they didnt have a solid monetization model.

[wheat heron]

This. I'd rather just pay $10/month then play a F2P game with a bunch of gambling adjacent loot boxes and/or cash shop

[vagrant solstice]

Not everyone would sub to a game either lol. I borrow games from the library 🤷‍♀️ also I'm a well educated sociologist so I'm well aware of different socioeconomic situations, clearly unlike you

[stone tulip]

Ello

[jolly wasp]

Okay but why? Why would it be better to have to spend $15 every month over being able to choose to spend the $15 clothes? That way if you don't like anything they put up in the shop that month you don't even have to spend a dime.

[delicate viper]

All they need to do to recoup profit at the start is similar to lost ark tbh. Pay for a cool skin and x days head start and everyone will buy it

[raw quest]

Well
You see
That money you use for a sub can in a lot of games only go for like 1 cosmetic set
So get 1 set per month or everything as long as you pay every month is probably the line of thought

[remote latch]

Maybe next time 🙂 🤞

[celest maple]

Well yeah obviously :p my point is I think their question was how are they going to make money and not really where its coming from. Which most people underestimate the power of mtx for cosmetics

[sudden shoal]

Okay please read the blog post. They've even repeated it here a couple of times that they're not having any lootboxes or any of the sort
I can understand preferring a different payment method but yeah

[patent dust]

as long as it doesnt translate to actually reviecing a check of a deposit into irl, this could be ok. otherwise, it could lead to real world trading

[stable walrus]

hi everyone, my name is hambold hammerson hamboney iii, i’m a 22 trillion year old alien from a very distant planet.

[teal locust]

If you're a well educated sociologist, maybe think twice before making an appeal to authority and almost shitting on someone else?

[jolly wasp]

If a F2P model filters out blatantly rude and condescending people like you from playing the game then I'm all for it

[delicate tusk]

Didn't get into alpha :(

[remote latch]

Hi welcome to Palia

[wheat heron]

So I guess my addendum to what I posted in the google doc would be "Can you address why we shouldn't assume the game going free to play from launch doesn't translate to 'We have no confidence that our game will sell whatsoever and are desparately trying to get every possible person in the door and hope and pray we catch a few whales to finance ourselves for the rest of the year.'?"

[lethal valve]

I was on the Sea of Thieves community team for 3 1/2 years, you can't "cash out" and there is no person to person trading at all

[wintry wasp]

Here's kind of the "long story short" on the F2P announcement. No matter what pay model they went with, a bunch of you would be upset over it. Maybe even some of the same people who are just never happy with things like this. We should really just wait and give them a chance to show us that F2P with cosmetic shop CAN be player friendly!

[cursive lark]

I totally understand the devs decision, Palia will be so much different than other MMOs (at least from what I understood), my only concern is it will not be able to bring enough profit for the company to develop it further. This is my only concern here

[fringe ether]

it’s in game currency, but it’s the one you usually have to buy with real money

[sudden shoal]

Because people want to feel accomplished in completing things in the game, which may get ruined whenever the same cosmetic you spent 40 hours to get, someone else got it immediately by paying 40 bucks
Personally I don't mind it, but I can see why people would be abrasive about it

[toxic kraken]

[lost tiger]

OH!!!! i know my next question for the next batch for ask the devs 😄

[true prairie]

So there's 120,000 people in this discord. Lets say every person in this discord loves the game, plays it a ton, and buys a $20 cosmetic every 3 months. Thats 9.6 million/yr, my uneducated hunch says thats not enough money to sustain development + an MMO.

I'm also just talking out of my ass, but numbers don't really check out.

[remote latch]

Matrix reference 🙂

[lost tiger]

this discord blew up like a nuke now

[frank hollow]

are test codes going out soon?

[lost tiger]

the test codes e-mails are over. ended yesterday

[jolly wasp]

Read the blog post.

[sudden shoal]

That really is my main concern as well, as I said before a lot of MMOs flop due to having a bad launch and not be able to keep itself afloat with how expensive they are to make, but I have faith this method will be able to work if they pull it off correctly

[frank hollow]

feels bad

[fringe ether]

Oh my gosh, Hiii! Yes, I recognize your name, haha, fancy running into you here. Ty for all you did for the SoT community then. ☺️

[patent dust]

alpha invites finished yesterday, so f you didnt get an email, unfortunaly you were not chosen for this round of testing

[sudden shoal]

I did, what's your point?

[remote latch]

The pinned post explains all emails for this test phase are sent out

[wintry wasp]

The long version of the "red pill" thing is to "see the truth" in terms of the Matrix. It's also a allegory for coming out as trans and such. Sadly, the wrong people have stolen it for the wrong reasons. 😦

[celest maple]

Yeah thats what I meant by underestimating. I worked on a very small scale game, consecutive 500 players online. We had players dropping thousands a month. Making around 10k a week. Im sure Palia can manage to do better

[lethal valve]

It was an amazing job!! I miss my team there desperately, but I moved on to get away from contracting 🙂

[toxic kraken]

Just got my email a few hours ago

[raw quest]

I mean yeah, personally I'd rather buy it outright and unlock everything but monetization like this helps keep the game going longer

[true prairie]

Man I hope you're right, I just don't see it.

[cursive lark]

Nothing would make me happier, it would show the entire industry that it is a plausible business model.

[azure sequoia]

the games graphics looks like fortnite 😭

[sick thistle]

my biggest concern about this model is "if you can’t buy the things you earn, it also means you won’t be able to earn the things you can buy". I'm a poor lady. I can't afford to pay real money for games most of the time but I am able to put in some extra time via gameplay to obtain things. this sort of philosophy is a massive financial barrier to people like me.

[cursive lark]

It's just I have not seen an MMORPG yet, that was able to be profitable on cosmetics only.

[teal burrow]

I’m probably not even gonna play the mmo why would I wanna play with people that whine about pricing

[hoary parcel]

FOR FREE?!

[wintry wasp]

Pretty much. We live in late-stage capitalism. Money needs to move or bad things happen.

[native galleon]

Be sure to fill out the form with that feedback 👍

[celest maple]

Of course its not 100% foolproof. It can flop. Take a look at fortnite though. F2P but you dont think theyre making mad bank off cosmetics?

[remote latch]

Play the game because it is the game you want to play 🙂

[lethal valve]

So you've never heard of Sea of Thieves then? With literally zero vertical progression?

[true ibex]

It's a different, no less viable model to me. But from what I've seen first and secondhand, microtransactions tempt people to spend more monthly than a subscription tends to cost, and they still usually don't get everything. That's the reason I'd prefer an upfront cost or subscription model, so that during times I do play, I have access to everything, but there's not really a right answer.

[true prairie]

Fornite was also put out by a multi-billion dollar company

[fringe ether]

Totally get it. My hubs is trying to move away from contracting as well. Hope your latest adventures have been just as epic.

[wintry wasp]

That's every game these days. No matter the pay model, people are going to riot.

[wheat heron]

And was primarily used as a funnel to get peopel into the EGS.

[cursive lark]

@lethal valve And when was it ever F2P?

[azure sequoia]

it's like £30 😭

[celest maple]

True but precisely because of that, you think theyre going to take a loss? If theyre still constantly working on fortnite, its damn well because its making them money. Obviously I dont think Palia will be on the same scale, but it can work and probably will (if done right)

[hoary parcel]

I mean i hope they know what they're doing being a free game and all people will flood in.

[jolly wasp]

It literally says in the blog post that you won't be able to buy things that can earned through gameplay. There will be no situation where some guy paid $40 for something you earned through 40 hours of playing.

[true prairie]

Yes, to funnel people into EGS

[wheat heron]

Fortnite paid for itself by being a gateway drug to the EGS as a whole. They paired it with huge exclusives and steep discoutns to keep people

[little silo]

Lol troll banned in seconds flat!
Gj mods!

[magic mist]

oh man that banhammer went down fast

[wintry wasp]

EGS still hasn't gotten a penny from my wallet. lol

[celest maple]

Idk, fortnite was in development for quite a while before EGS made any waves. Even now I suspect EGS isnt at the level of scale to be making more profit than Fortnite itself

[frank hollow]

i think i spent like 80 bucks on LoL. Still worth it sunk a ton of time into that game

[jolly wasp]

But then in your case you wouldn't be able to play Palia at all if it were a subscription model/

[wintry wasp]

Another troll down. lol

[frank hollow]

Bubba was probably our best president

[true prairie]

Fortnite also wasn't always going to be F2P, and the Battle Royale wasnt even the focus at first. IMO they just got super lucky that Battle Royales were blowing up at the time and capitalized on it.

[hexed wharf]

OwO

[smoky sequoia]

I think I might come back in a couple days when things have settled down...

[little silo]

Don't feed the trolls, kids

[raw kite]

It's actually great to see good moderation. 😉 cheers (modlove)

[sudden shoal]

I don't believe they said that specifically. It's mostly about how it will all be cosmetic and there won't be a way to get a mechanic advantage over someone else like that, which is great
Also if that were the case that would be even worse, because then there'd be cosmetics that you can only get by buying them, which I really don't like at all personally. I don't mean that you should be able to buy everything with money, I mean you should be able to earn everything through effort

[sudden shoal]

good call lol

[remote moss]

I just hope the things we earn are of the same quality as the things we buy. I mean of course paid stuff will be creative, pretty and all, but I hope "earned stuff" won't all be excessively grey and boring

[native patrol]

I am honestly concerned about Palia going to the F2P model, however if it is managed well and purely cosmetic and no p2w as it states in the document then that will be fine. The major concern I have about it is how will they be price set, will it be easy to calculate without having the predatory way that I have seen most purchasing systems to be.

[light mortar]

Oh no. Game is free. Damn.

[lost tiger]

i hope you can buy "limited time holiday" cosmetics even AFTER the holiday has passed 😄

[long shard]

My worry is "you won't be forced to buy loot boxes" does not equal "there are no loot boxes"

[raw quest]

I'm mostly concerned wether you can only get cosmetics like clothes by buying them

[fringe ether]

Ok, at the risk of sounding like a boomer, what’s “EGS”? Ty in advance

[celest maple]

Nope they definitely said that specifically. If it can be earned in game, you cant buy it. BUT that being said, opposite is also true. If it can be bought, it cant be earned ingame. They kept the two separate. So if you earned this super cool chair, impossible for some other dude to come along and buy it (according to their post)

[jolly wasp]

They do say that specifically. You didn't read it properly.

[hoary fulcrum]

Yeah I'm not a fan of free games because the financial incentive has to come from somewhere. I.E. microtransactions.

[sudden shoal]

Again that's not what I meant with that, my last sentence in that message is what I was talking about

[wheat heron]

Depending on how you read "– Palia will not monetize things you earn through gameplay", This sounds like a bad thing, to be completely honest. The things on that store will be exclusive to it and can't be earned in-game.

[raw kite]

Epic game store

[buoyant heath]

Egon Spengler. He's one of the Ghostbusters.

[weary karma]

Only reason I never bought the Fortnite: Save The World was due to them stating it'd go F2P once fully released but instead they put out the Battle Royal mode as f2p and pretty much forgot all about Save The World.

[sudden shoal]

I didn't mean that everything will be able to be bought, I mean that everyhing that can be bought would also be able to be earned through playing the game

[little silo]

And that's fair. But it does serve their founding principle of making the game as accessible as possible.

[teal burrow]

Y’all pay full price dlc but y’all are whineig about a free game

[vapid lotus]

I wonder if buying cosmetics will only purely be obtainable by real money, or will there be some sort “cosmetics coins” where f2p can earn coins (slowly tho like idk 5 coins if you complete one of daily challenges) bit like Sea of thieves where the ancient coins can be obtained by killing ancient skeleton but not fast enough to get all the cosmetics in the game. I think this way is very beneficial since you can’t really tell if that player have spent real money on cosmetics or not.

[celest maple]

I know what you mean, it sucks but cant have everything you want. Imagine spending hours and hours enjoying a game that a large group of people put in thousands of work hour to do. For free?

[true prairie]

yeah they capitalized on the genre going nuclear and fortnite running on basically every platform (and easy to run on PC), plus being free, really helped propel it to the top

[raw quest]

I mean yeah, if you could earn the things that you could buy wouldn't the reverse also be true?

[buoyant heath]

I purchased three (3)!!! founders packs for Save the World and put a ton of time into making suggestions for UI and gameplay improvements

[wintry wasp]

See, my take on lootboxes is odd I guess. I personally would be ok with them if they did something like SWTOR. Cheaper lootboxes with a change to get a wide range of items from the cash shop. Good use of the free tokens the game gives me over time. lol

[cursive lark]

BTW, you guys are great in S6, that you try to make the most fair buisness model, I hope it will turn out to be a huge success and all my concerns were unfounded. Wish you all the best, and I hope we will have a great game to play for years to come ❤️

[sudden shoal]

Yup. Again I do actually prefer this method. I'm just justifying why other people would want to pay for a sub instead

[jagged hornet]

test

[raw kite]

They are totally separate. Blog post states earned things can't be bought and bought things can't be earned.

[hoary fulcrum]

My worry is that, if it's not done with extreme care, it could hurt the player experience. See WOW and store mounts. The sense of accomplishment for grinding is completely overshadowed by higher quality skins you pay for.

[wheat heron]

And that video showing their approach to monetization looks to me like they're saying "People who don't pay money will be in the basic grey outfit you see in the beginning. The people who do pay money will look awesome like these other people in the other colored/textured outfits."

[long shard]

Honestly if there are loot boxes in any way, shape or form, I won't be playing.

[muted ether]

I understand that, but everybody hated "grind for 40 hours to play Darth Vader".

[celest maple]

Ah yeah sub is fine if you have money but like I said earlier makes the game a lot less accessible. B2P = bad for long term development, subscription = bad for accessibility (which is quite important for a social game)

[little silo]

Am a WoW vet, I relate.

[sick thistle]

yeah this is my other big concern! Someone a little earlier in this chat mirrored my sentiments on the subject; Palia is poised as a cozy game focused on building and customization. cosmetics are the gameplay - if they keep all the cool stuff locked behind a paywall then it effectively is pay to win.

[wise osprey]

hey, hi! the announcements has summoned me once more

[whole geode]

Sub is cheaper on consumer in long run. For the cost of a pizza one night, less than a night out on the town, you get 30d of entertainment.

[hoary fulcrum]

I'm not. I just watch some bald guy talk to a camera.

[patent dust]

they did say in the blogpost there's no lootboxes to buy

[raw kite]

No worries there. No loot boxes or revolving shops

[little silo]

Baldmangold is wise.

[sudden shoal]

But yeah this would still allow the 40-hour/40-dollar example to occur, just not in a scale as I may have made it seem (and it's still better than not be able to earn the 40-dollar cosmetic at all)

[remote latch]

Hi kandy

[raw quest]

My experience of lootboxes is love/hate because it mostly comes from Heroes of the Storm and Overwatch, I love that you could just earn them but I'd hate that they were mostly filled with sprays, portraits and voice lines that you'd almost never use

[celest maple]

er ok what is a "loot box" i mean i get the loot....and random chests concept but loot boxes....???

[long shard]

I only saw "you won't be forced to buy" loot boxes, which is not the same thing

[chilly crater]

Heya guys!

[sudden shoal]

-well that's a mechanic advantage, cosmetic stuff is different

[sudden shoal]

Yeah, I definitely agree

[muted ether]

Semantics. To many social players, cosmetics are mechanics.

[round meteor]

If you received the alfa? You can Stream it?

[wheat heron]

No

[weary karma]

Hopefully they put in at least a few those.

[remote latch]

No, nda

[sullen bison]

I definitely understand both sides of this honestly. But overall, for Palia specifically, I feel like it's being approached as in real life. In real life you can't pay to be higher skill but you can work at it (like in Palia), but for cosmetic things like clothes in real life you have options to make your own, or buy some (which have varying degrees of cost...and hopefully Palia will have different price points too)

[raw quest]

Yeah, a bit like what I'm thinking/is concerned about, like I wanna be able to earn my cool cosmetics as well

[celest maple]

Cant stream, cant share informaton, cant share pictures. Its a secret between you, staff, and other alpha players

[sudden shoal]

Good point, but I say it's still a lot more acceptable to have cosmetic purchases than mechanical ones, hence why it's probably a minority that hates this monetization here

[round meteor]

Okay! I mean i dont have the alpha, just to know if ill find streams or not

[stray prism]

It's just a chest you pay for to recieve a collection of random in game items. Rather than choosing the items to buy directly yourself. It's essentially a little gamble to see what you get.

[long shard]

Every game that has loot boxes says they're optional, but they aren't. You can't opt out of basic game design, designed around them

[wintry wasp]

You pretty much got scammed... That sucks. 😦

[celest maple]

oh

[celest maple]

so you will have to pay for those

[merry lion]

Gz to beta testers

[patent dust]

no beta yet, only alpha

[remote latch]

The devs do give us regular updates so you never know what they’ll provide this year 🙂

[little silo]

I've not seen it mentioned that loot boxes are confirmed, this is still speculation, yes?

[stray prism]

I got founders pack too and sunk so many hours in with my friends only for that part of the game to get totally abandoned once battle royale blew up 😭

[wheat tundra]

Just got scammed after giving 70$ to Titanreach.

The dude spent 2 years of dev to end up saying " yeah nah, I gonna do NFTs and crypto"

[jolly wasp]

Yes it's speculation. They were kind of vague about loot boxes.

[patent dust]

they havnt specifically stated there will be

[buoyant heath]

So, I suppose that depends on your view - my two friends and I played A LOT of save the world before Battle Royale mode came out

[cursive lark]

I never understood that. I mean it makes sense if you can buy the same cosmetics that you get from f.e. best dungeon or something, but if they are distinct and you can see whether the cosmetic was bought or you got it through your 3-monthly grind there should be no problem. Especially if there was put the same amount of effort to make these cosmetics.

[buoyant heath]

I heard about this recently - I'm sorry that game failed

[wintry wasp]

It's more that STW was literally just scrapped silently. I think there was/is actually a bait and switch lawsuit against them.

[long shard]

The fact they're being vague about loot boxes is suspect, tbh. If there aren't any, just say that

[buoyant heath]

Read the post in game announcements

[wise osprey]

hey, good to see you! Hope you're doing well! How do you feel about the new... news? lmao

[celest maple]

Yall scared whoa away

[patent dust]

its doesnt technically say there wll be, just that you wont be forced to buy any

[jolly wasp]

I suppose it's possible that by "you won't be forced to buy loot boxes" they meant "loot boxes will be in the game but they can't be purchased with real money."

[remote latch]

I haven’t read the blog yet but I’m here for the game 🙂

[raw kite]

Oh... I just re-read the blog post: "The key takeaway is that you won’t be forced to buy loot boxes" So that basically a guarantee of loot boxes then?

[little silo]

I reddit, it does not specifically say lootboxes. Just mentions a cosmetic transaction which could mean a variety of other things.

[wintry wasp]

Also Hi Dadjoke! I've been MIA a while. lol

[sudden shoal]

A lot of people see cosmetics as an easy way to flaunt an achievement to other players and show how much more dedicated you are than them (Which is an absolutely valid thing to want imo), like earning a cool looking mount through completing a huge grind
Personally I'd only get it for my own self-satisfaction (though being able to brag would be nice too), but yeah

[kindred sable]

helllooo

[long shard]

Exactly

[past terrace]

Wow. Was not expecting a monetization announcement so soon! That’s huge

[pure sedge]

@dense plover @wanton cobalt not sure if either of you are the appropriate party to mention it to, but the check-name endpoint for the accounts api is currently 500-ing, appears to be preventing registration of accounts. {"code":500,"message":"INTERNAL_SERVER_ERROR","details":["None"]}

[raw quest]

"You won’t need to buy loot boxes or get content through a rotating store"

[remote latch]

Hi caako

[kindred sable]

hi xrystal

[short notch]

Omg Im so excited for this game!

[long shard]

Or they're saying they're optional without that exact phrasing

[cursive lark]

But you will still have it, it's not like you will be able to buy the same mount from cash shop, since nothing achieved in game will ever be in cash shop.

[patent dust]

theres a link in #📢│palia-news to submt things like this :)

[remote latch]

Hi Danni

[arctic onyx]

Being free-to-play makes a lot of sense, the game is a peaceful game, they will most likely sell skins in the cash shop.

[little silo]

That can be interpreted a number of ways, sure. All im getting at is that it is not a confirmation of loot boxes, so why argue about loot boxes at all?

[modern patio]

Freeeeeee! My favorite bingo square

[teal burrow]

Don’t get to exited the way I’m seeing people complain they will make sure the developers make it a sub or money

[remote latch]

Hi Fayne

[past terrace]

👋

[misty ruin]

Welp, this game will finally be free to play with a cash shop supporting it. Sadly this means I'm immediately out. Good luck to the Palia team.

[raw quest]

Very! Will probably become my go-to game and I haven't really had one since before Cataclysm came to wow

[cunning adder]

Hello!

[little silo]

Hi youtube!

[sudden shoal]

Well... In that case we'd have a WoW problem where it only makes sense that they make the coolest looking things be reserved for the cash shop, while the free stuff doesn't look nearly as cool, even if it's earned through hard work

[whole geode]

Yikes

[patent dust]

its cosmetic only things, so it wont affect gameplay

[jolly wasp]

This is possible but it would be a weird way to say it. Of course you won't be forced to buy loot boxes, but you won't be FORCED to buy cosmetics either so why even phrase it that way?

[sudden shoal]

It's a really tricky situation in general so I can definitely see why it took them this long to come to the decision (in fact I'm also surprised they announced it already)

[long shard]

Cosmetics are gameplay

[thin oar]

Personally I think F2P with cosmetic only transactions is the best business model I’d like to support. From my limited knowledge on business models, if they made the game not F2P and you have to just pay maybe $40, they may eventually hit a cap where not many people are purchasing the game anymore. Then they are forced to pump out DLCs to keep afloat and nobody wants half assed DLCs. I think with the model they chose, free DLC expansions and updates is very plausible and more realistic rather than the alternative. I don’t mind paying $10-$20 for cosmetics to support a dev team for a game that is free to play and no p2w. I don’t know why people are upset about this? I’m sure there will be cosmetics that you can earn but having pretty cosmetics that are store bought only also incentives players to purchase them, I see nothing wrong with that

[whole geode]

NDA m8

[wintry wasp]

I still fail to see the hate for cosmetic lootboxes, honestly. When gameplay content is there, yeah no good. But when it's cometic only (and like I said, like SWTOR even.), it's really not that bad.

[modern patio]

No no yikes they’re fine to have that opinion. I’m still interested since it’s a casual game so I don’t feel too bad about a cash shop.

[cursive lark]

I disagree in a sense that you can make equal effort to create costumes for specific achievements in-game and the paid ones. The only difference is you might have PREFERRED the paid one rather than the one you achieved.

[raw quest]

Idunno man, derailing? Some may see it as a confirmation for them having it but using it more like an option tho

[signal dagger]

they won't affect gameplay, only roleplay

[little silo]

Because they don't want to people to later say "we were promised a free game with zero MTX" when clearly there will be some form of MTX

[teal hinge]

Fuck.

[reef locust]

I 1000% agree I was typing out a message just like this

[muted ether]

There are people who play games to represent themselves, and invest a lot of time into making their avatar look just so. They have a vision of what their character should look like, and they'll gather up the items required to make them look that way, wherever those items may come from. If it requires crafting, they'll craft. If it requires PvP, they'll PvP.
To that kind of player, putting cosmetics behind a paywall is the same as to another player who really wants to use that one assault rifle that's only available via the store. You have an idea of what you want your game experience to be like, and you are unable to have it unless you pay real money for it.

[tacit flame]

Cosmetics are gameplay for some of us, especially when we hate looking the same way constantly but are stuck with bland cosmetics unless we pay

[past terrace]

How I interpreted the post was that it sounds like they’re aware that people care about cosmetic representation of earning things in game and there will be options to do both (earn and pay) that will be totally separate. I’ll reserve my judgment until I see it in action but that sounds promising

[long shard]

That's part of the game. Thus, gameplay

[dense burrow]

This is a sad sad day for palia. I had so many hopes... game is not done and already announced p2w, in a cosmetics game, the store is the meta...

[signal dagger]

good point

[patent dust]

with how extensive customizaiton is, dont think that would be a problem

[marble hedge]

Why are you out? Free games are bad?

[remote latch]

This link should help you if you have an alpha invite but having issues completing the process - #📢│palia-news message

[sudden shoal]

They can... But that would be putting a lot of faith in the devs
Not to mistrust the devs, they're really the most genuine and communicative dev team I've seen for a game, but you never know what'll happen in the future

[little silo]

This is not a p2w announcement, the game has no "win" conditions to speak of.

[whole geode]

You'll need to contact staff via DM.

[wintry wasp]

Probably because of how many other free games have "toxic" cash shops.

[tacit flame]

I mean, we don’t know especially if you cant get certain outfits because theyre locked behind a paywall(and its always the good ones too)

[topaz path]

having to only pay for mogging is a super happy solution IMO

[cursive lark]

I actually believe that is their strategy, but we will see soon.

[marble hedge]

So don't buy cosmetics?

[modern patio]

Yeah I don’t see anything to win in Palia. It’s made to be fairly casual

[buoyant heath]

It's wonderful to see you again.

[teal hinge]

Okay. Thank you.

[steep sundial]

cosmetics is the whole point of the game for some people

[teal burrow]

How is it p2w if this game is based on outfits not pvp?

[glad acorn]

Agreed. I will just sit back and watch what happens. I was so looking forward to this game. Such a shame.

[thin oar]

So are you wanting the game to be completely free then? Lol

[modern patio]

That’s why I’m not concerned or even surprised.

[long shard]

Have fun in a gray jumpsuit I guess

[signal dagger]

I don't see Palia implementing lootboxes without contradicting their statement about monetization, what if you roll the same cosmetic twice, what happens to that?

[versed zealot]

They gotta support themselves somehow.

[jolly wasp]

For a lot of people, the game IS cosmetics. Thankfully I'm not one of them, I just wanna farm.

[sharp loom]

F2p bigggg

[remote latch]

This link may help you as well #📢│palia-news message

[modern patio]

Honestly, free for a casual game is ideal. In my opinion

[dense burrow]

@marble hedge I will prolly not even play it. 😢

[marble hedge]

Ok, now seriously... WoW has purchasable cosmestics, that doesn't mean all the cosmetics must be purchased.

[topaz path]

there are many options that won't be grey jumpsuits.. Even just in the trailers you can see that

[tacit flame]

No, i’d honestly much rather i pay a full fee for a game instead of constantly getting my wallet out because of clothes i like and constantly want to switch out which can rack up over time depending on how they price these clothes

[versed zealot]

cosmetics isn't pay to win lol

[arctic onyx]

pay to win??? there is no pvp, there is no actual dungeons or raids, what exactly do you win in palia?

[raw kite]

I think they are referring to "winning" in a cosmetic focused game, then p2w would be buying cosmetics.

[stray prism]

My experience with cosmetics cash shops has been with Sea of Thieves, and while that game dif also have an upfront cost, I was SUPER happy with the further monetization. The point of the game was to customize your ship/avatar but not being disadvantaged via p2w tactics made it fun to play n didn't feel predatory at all to pay for the cosmetics.

As long as the team is being truthful on what they're doing, I'm hoping it all works out

[dense burrow]

@marble hedge I played wow from the beta. i stopped a short while after when they introduced ingame shop

[raw quest]

Personally the best model I've known is Deep Rock Galactic's
It's relatively cheap, a lot of free stuff to unlock through gameplay and paid cosmetic dlcs that adds a themed skin for everything, I honestly love the devs so much that I've bought them all even though I may not even use them, they also sell the soundtrack for some additional support

[modern patio]

Not to excuse those practices but unfortunately I don’t think cash shops are ever off the table anymore

[reef locust]

Having a sub fee isn’t accessible for a lot of people though, this is a way their game can reach a wider audience

[jolly wasp]

A one-time payment would doom this game, and any MMO.

[sudden shoal]

For a game that may be based on said cosmetics, that's debatable, even if I do agree with you

[whole geode]

Change your thinking. Don't have a pizza one night a month. You'll be able to then afford an item or two from the shop.

[misty ruin]

I've been through enough GW2 to know this will be true but will slowly but surely rot and decay with time and turn into loot boxes and not-so-cosmetic items.

[little silo]

I go to designer fashion shows to win at life.

[wintry wasp]

The most minor of all cash shops I've ever seen was your turnoff? To each their own I guess.

[raw quest]

Pain

[cursive lark]

I understand the logic, I just simply can't stand by it. I have no idea how many people there are with such approach to the game. It might turn out there are more in this game.

[sudden shoal]

cough cough new world

[tacit flame]

Who knows 🤷 i overall would rather grind for 10 hours to get a cute dress than spend $2 on it

[versed zealot]

based on cosmetics?

[stone tulip]

If they implement lootboxes there wouldn't be much there because Palia is not combat oriented. There's no armor or weapons on top of other cosmetics like mmos usually have

[jolly wasp]

Never heard of it

[short notch]

I mean, the game needs to make money, no?

[thin oar]

I think palia will be like this

[vernal wraith]

Hi

[wise osprey]

With the way things are going when it comes to communication, I would love to see more outlets to talk about this game, like an official subreddit

[misty ruin]

So there is no other business model than free to play with cosmetic sale?

[little silo]

In MY capitalist dystopia?? NEVER

[dense burrow]

what do you play a game for? the game always has an objective? this one is looking good and having a good looking house... if you get that by paying, you already won in your community.

[tacit flame]

It would be nice if they had a kind of system where you can grind instead of pay and pay instead of grind so people arent forced to pay to look nice or not like a “noob”

[buoyant heath]

Can I grind for hours and pay for cute dresses? Is it okay for me to have a choice there?

[cunning adder]

I'm sure there will be outfit choices you can earn by playing, but if you want specific outfits it will be optional purchases. Fine by me. Honestly, I was hoping to see some P2E elements 🤗

[thin oar]

Agreed, as a business they would not be able to survive after everyone who would be their player base got the game. They would have to resort to paid DLCs

[remote latch]

We do have a #game-suggestions channel here - the devs do read through it, so if you have any ideas you think may help them improve their monetary system you could perhaps post there. Maybe it’s an idea they hadn’t considered themselves.

[modern patio]

I’m surprised people reacted so negatively to this. Palia is not supposed to be showboaty or interested in a lot of competition. Free seems like the most casual kind of price.

[raw quest]

I'm not sure, they didn't seem to specifically mention that cosmetics can also be earned, I might just misinterpret it tho ofc

[signal dagger]

Oh sorry, I didn't explain it well, but say you get the same cosmetic from a lootbox more than once, what would end up happening to that cosmetic?

[wise osprey]

I pray that there isnt any genderlocks when it comes to clothing

[sudden shoal]

Yes, this game seems to be very casual-focused, and I can see there not being a lot of tough achievements to get, other than making your house and yourself look pretty (I don't like repeating but Warframe is a great example)
Of course this is all speculation, but I can easily see it

[misty ruin]

Sure, you'll get the classic free to play. Ten million free recolors and all unique appearances in the shop.

[raw kite]

Same here! But it's hard not to feel a little disappointed when standing next to a payer with a nicer dress that they didn't invest the same time into it that you did

[muted ether]

It's hard to know exact numbers because video game developers are notoriously stingy about communicating statistics about their playerbase.
For Palia specifically, we'll just have to see how good the offering of ingame available cosmetics vs. cash shop cosmetics is.

[cursive lark]

From what i understood your house is your representation of achievements in the game - there will be no housing cosmetics in the store... at least for now.

[raw quest]

There's a certain stigma to f2p, a lot burned people

[little silo]

This is confirmed, no gender locks for appearance or cosmetics

[arctic onyx]

i play to have fun

[long shard]

I just saw someone say p2e and that's also a huge nope from me

[buoyant heath]

They have said so far that there won't be.

[wintry wasp]

This makes me happy when they said that a while back! I like my femboy looks in FF14. lol

[long shard]

I play to have fun, not to "earn"

[modern patio]

Uh. Not a dev right?

[little silo]

Now introducing NFT COSMETICS

[raw quest]

Pay to earn? God no

[serene stratus]

Great, informative blog post!

[sharp obsidian]

There is a large amount of speculation around the details of how we will roll out monetization and I ask everyone to be kind to each other in that conversation.

For a second though, I want you to put monetization aside (where there are numerous successful and unsuccessful models) and think about the core thing that we're trying to achieve. A world where everyone can play together - I know a lot of us come from countries where a $60 game, or a $15 subscription are minor allocations of our entire budget, but a lot of people do not have this luxury. That is the thing I am most excited for - that there will be no barrier for anyone to play.

[buoyant heath]

Sorry, I stepped on your reply!

[cunning adder]

I think this is good news. A free game to play, and if you want to support their efforts, buy some cool outfits!

[past terrace]

Frankly I’m taken aback by how different the tone of the chat is today compared to all the months prior to this announcement. Feeling a lot more argumentativeness than usual.

[left yoke]

I have nothing against the purchase-cosmetics, i just hope, really really hope, that there's plenty of different outfit that are actually very pretty in game without having to pay. And also that the cosmetics in shop doesn't cost like 30$, i don't want Palia to be like Black Desert Online or else that force you to look like an homeless unless you buy 50$ outfit on the shop

[misty ruin]

From my understanding, the team behind Palia isn't new to the MMO scene. This means they are fully aware how awful F2P is perceived in the MMO community and still chose to go with it.

[tacit flame]

Yeah, for some of us we want to really look and represent and be whatever we want in Palia, i fear it would turn out like every other kids mmorpg where only the most basic clothes are available for you to buy with ingame currency and everything else is locked behind a sub(in this case it would be real money)

[wise osprey]

oh hype

[steep sundial]

I would instantly just scrape this game from my mind and forget it existed

[misty ruin]

Careful, there are lethal amounts of copium.

[modern patio]

Silver lining, it’s more lively lol

[sharp loom]

free to play is always good news for live service game

[wise osprey]

yea, with the way the blog is worded, they totally get it

[sharp loom]

barrier to entry is v important fopr games like these. especially a pseudo mmo

[modern patio]

I wouldn’t mind a box price to deter bots a bit

[misty ruin]

Yet they go with it. Can hardly be more sus.

[patent dust]

monetization is a big topic for a lot of people. them voiceing their opinions helps the devs overall

[serene stratus]

I honestly feel really good about the models they've proposed so far

[remote latch]

They said back in june that clothing options are one of the interchangeable items #❓│old-team-answers-pre-alpha message

[muted ether]

I'll be throwing you a question about that on ye olde google form. Mind relinking the questionnaire?

[steep sundial]

This can either go well with good stuff to earn and buy, or this could go horribly where all the best stuff you wanna get are paid and all the ingame free stuff to earn is just subpar

[wintry wasp]

Me speculation is that, since there are no evil CEO overlords above S6, you guys CAN give us the shop that both keeps the game alive and expanding, and isn't toxic towards the playerbase! :p

[thin oar]

I want to ask why you feel this way? Isn’t grinding for 10 hours to get cosmetics for personal enjoyment? Why would you care if someone else had a prettier dress because they decided to pay for it?

[wise osprey]

I think my favourtie highlight of the whole thing is that:

if you can’t buy the things you earn, it also means you won’t be able to earn the things you can buy

[dense burrow]

this will create a divide between players, the p2w showing off riches, and the f2p feeling poor in a virtual world

[sudden shoal]

I do genuinely believe a F2P model is perfect for not only a game that's casual-focused, but also an MMO (Which only has the alternative of a sub pretty much)

[misty ruin]

Because this game has insane potential and just got ruined by a business model that is predatory by nature.

[wise osprey]

this separation alone is giving me hop as to where they want to go with things

[past terrace]

Oh brother. Please don’t bring this nonsensical catchphrase here.

[sudden shoal]

None of us have any idea if this will be the case or not though

[deep frigate]

people get very worked up about monetization. I'll just be muting and returning when things calm down.

[versed zealot]

the entire game being about fashion is a reach. There will probably be earnable cosmetics anyways, and some optional to buy. So everyone one has options for if they want to grind and other who want to support the devs and getting a cosmetic for the support. Can't make everyone happy unfortunately, but people feeling upset that other people have an optional cosmetic that they don't because it's in shop is theme being upsetty spaghetti vs. devs making the money back from allthe work they put into a f2p

[raw kite]

It detracts from the in game achievement. "Time is money"

[wintry wasp]

The problem is a "pay once" or monthly sub model will still cause the same thing. Plus we live in a capitalist dystopia. Every game will have a cash shop.

[stone tulip]

They could do something like Toram Online. They have an avatar lootbox system where if you roll a duplicate or one you don't want you can recycle the duplicate or unwanted avatar item for in-game currency or other things you can use later on.

[little silo]

has been made predatory by many, but not by its own nature

[sudden shoal]

They literally just revealed the monetization, I'm sure more details will come eventually, especially in the Q&A

[serene stratus]

There's no "perfect", all encompassing answer here. No matter what approach they choose there will be a group of people that don't like it

[misty ruin]

Which is the same exact bullshit we get served by MMO companies every time they go with a B2P or F2P model and is literally never true.

[dense burrow]

show me a game that doesn't have that divide.

[sudden shoal]

Warframe

[signal dagger]

but that turns into a p2w system

[steady garden]

Idk how I feel about this free business, most f2p games rarely keep my interest

[worthy rose]

that's like saying that having cosmetics unlocked behind achievements in a p2p game causes divides because not everyone has the same amount of time to grind so people with less free time will have less stuff

[dense burrow]

yea i wanted to escape from said capitalist dystopia.

[modern patio]

Final thing I’ll say cuz I gotta go do chores lol: let people say their opinions here and be respectful 👍

[jolly wasp]

There is always a divide between players in any game, though. If it isn't money then it's time. Someone who doesn't have a job and can spend 8 hours a day grinding vs someone who only has time to play for 30 minutes a day.

[wintry wasp]

You can't. It's in every aspect of our lives.

[worthy rose]

the only way to have no divide in players is to have nothing unlockable and let everyone have all of the same stuff at the same time forever

[cursive lark]

And then there will be people with money and 16hrs of time daily.

[little silo]

Fact is, if you can't control your budget in a f2p w/ mtx game, you should re-consider your own personal choices.

[thin oar]

I don’t agree with this view point, in games like wow where there are both paid cosmetics and mostly earned cosmetics, the fame and most desired cosmetics are always the ones grinded for and earned.

[serene stratus]

Yep

[whole geode]

People need to relax - have a little faith in the team. Game is a long way from release and many discussions will be made along the way, regarding costs. Even F2P games have staff to pay. You have the choice though, to pay or not to pay.

[misty ruin]

I've been playing MMOs for 17 years. Not a single F2P/B2P MMO was not a complete scam or predatory as hell. I'd be glad to be proven wrong but let's be realistic just for a moment.

[sudden shoal]

Do keep in mind that a lot of the people not wanting this payment method will be more than happy to pay for a sub instead
They aren't being unreasonable

[worthy rose]

what about runescape lol

[glad acorn]

Hard to have faith when we haven't even seen any progress of the game...

[buoyant heath]

Cat, sorry

[little silo]

Man's not played a lot of f2p games.

[stone tulip]

Depends on what method is used. On Toram Online you have the option to get avatar tickets free or pay for the lootboxes. Not everything has to be automatically pay to win, it depends on what the devs want to do. In Palia's case more information will come later

[misty ruin]

One of the few I haven't tried so can't talk about it. Apparently OSRS is doing really good these days.

[wintry wasp]

I never felt that vibe from Tera. It was predatory in other ways. See: the loli race...

[raw kite]

I respectfully disagree. And my rebuke to the WOW cosmetics reference is simple... /Mount special...

[jolly wasp]

You know it just barely reached Alpha, right?

[steady garden]

Guide wars 2 was good though, and to an extent DCUO was too

[compact burrow]

@ Dev Team

[glad acorn]

this still sounds like bad news to me..

[versed zealot]

but the problem is many also would not pay for a sub. Cosmetics however is optional and a way for the devs to earn money back that is more inclusive for more players to pay

[digital shoal]

Why is it so hard to understand that the company needs to find some kind of steady flow of income to pay for servers and staff?

[sudden shoal]

I agree

[unique juniper]

I really dont have an issue with the free model and cosmetics being monitized.. its not like its being done along side having to buy the game AND pay a sub unlike other games..

[misty ruin]

GW2 forces you to use the cash shop by vicious ways. Trying to gather decent amounts of resources without infinite tools is a road to madness. Same goes for desynth.

[wintry wasp]

Because that's not how people look at game studios, sadly.

[thin oar]

I would not pay for a sub. I work full time and don’t want to feel pressured into playing to get my money’s worth.

[long shard]

That's not the actual issue here, it's how they go about it

[muted ether]

Well ... Then you're in the wrong place. Games need time to be made, which means at some point they're early in development and the developers are not yet ready to talk about them.

[whole geode]

#🌠│official-art - #📮│public-polls - is a good starting place - but the game is entering it's Alpha stage. Still a long way to go.

[lost tiger]

i always forget to scroll down in discord a lot

[past canopy]

does the alpha have an end date?

[lapis lynx]

Ask 60$ for a game = people complain
Make it F2P with paid cosmetics = other people will complain

A company needs to make money, if Palia thinks the model they have chosen is the right one for their company, then I'll support the game by playing it if I like it. If I spend enough time and there's certain items I'd like to pay for, I'll happily do that, that's my choice and not a requirement.

If you do not agree with their business model, then simply don't play the game and move on to something you'd enjoy more ❤️

[glad acorn]

thanks

[dense burrow]

If this was truly in the best for the consumer move, the option to pay a sub and have all the cosmetics would be there.

[sudden shoal]

I think 0 people are disagreeing with that here

[patent dust]

ive never purchased anything in gw2, ive had no issues

[little silo]

"Why can't developers just give us a AAA experience with constant online support and zero monetization for absolutely free? Such greed!"

[grave vine]

i misread that as garden warfare 2 lol

[stone tulip]

Can't please everybody unfortunately

[sudden shoal]

Please don't be disingenuous guys, when has anyone ever said everything should be 100% free?

[buoyant heath]

Since so many of you are new, I'd like remind you that there's the #📃│server-directory channel in case you want to dress up your user name or assign one of the other roles they have available

[arctic onyx]

but free-to-play will make the game accessible to millions, and don't you want MMOs to have large player numbers?

[little silo]

Pleanty have implied that any form of monetization ruins the game, so yes.

[lapis lynx]

Nothing in life is free, but a lot of entitled people like to think so...

[wintry wasp]

That's why I said the same people rioting about the F2P would likely complain no matter the model they put out... Plus all models would include a cash shop. That's modern gaming people. We can't avoid cash shops anymore.

[sudden shoal]

And none of those people are here

[teal burrow]

Even in paid games have loot boxes call of duty anyone

[little silo]

Um, are you reading chat?

[stable forum]

I do have some very awful experiences with F2P as an MMO, but y’know maybe this one won’t be bad. I know the dev team isn’t new to the MMO genre so hopefully they can handle it?

[unique juniper]

did anyone actually read the post they made? its extremely reasonable..

[sudden shoal]

"Implied" isn't the best argument imo

[little silo]

Or just kinda skipping through?

[digital shoal]

If they go for a fix price for a game that literally requires monthly server and staff support then the game will literally shutdown in 2-3 years.

[remote latch]

#❓│old-team-answers-alpha too - As elements are being fixed into the game they reveal some information to us about it. We’ve had villager information and some details about cooking late last year. A lot more of that is expected this year now that alpha is starting with more stuff than what was in pre alpha 🙂

[little silo]

Only because they are too slow to follow their own logic to its conclusion.

[compact burrow]

hmm not sure who or how to ping on this but! I am going to state I wish the game wasn't free. Free to play games have a tendency to have design which all but requires shop usage and ends up likely costing more than a subscription for full enjoyment. I would gladly pay a subscription not to have a cash shop and associated design. For bad F2p see secret world, lord of the rings online, and starwars online.

[buoyant heath]

I felt like there was some vague language that I would have liked to be more definitive, but I also get why it isn't, given the stage of development they're in. But other than that, I agree with you.

[sudden shoal]

Btw devs, please feel free to take a break from reading this chat if you want, I can understand if it feels frustrating to have so much discourse about it, especially after how much effort must've been put to coming to this decision

[long shard]

No one has said that, people are just disagreeing on the form it should take

[dense burrow]

I would like either one of two things possible, let me pay a sub to have ALL the game content, or allow me to turn off cosmetic visuals bought on the shop. I don't believe either option will be there, because they will want us to suffer not having it...

[muted ether]

Hey, I feel uncomfortable with F2P with monetised cosmetics because I've seen it done poorly many times.
My dream scheme would be a monthly sub and no additional monetisation.

[dusty root]

Christ, some of yall need to take a chill pill.

They want the game to be available to as many people as possible. Yknow, so whole families can play together without buying the same thing 4 times. Free to play with a cosmetics cash shop makes sense.

Not to mention the fact that it was clearly stated:

With Palia, we’ll only be monetizing cosmetic content. At first, this will focus on character clothing and costumes, but we’ll evaluate more spaces as time goes on.

MEANING ITS ONLY JUST GOTTEN INTO THE FIRST ROUND OF ALPHA. Let them figure stuff out GEEZ. Free to play doesn't mean it's an automatic failure ffs.

[compact burrow]

It doesn't have to be modern game design though - if we all stopped using cash shops they would disappear

[sudden shoal]

then again moderators need to be a thing probably, so uh, maybe have someone else take your place or something?

[buoyant heath]

No need to ping anyone. Members of the dev team do read chat.

[unique juniper]

there was some, but i really think that was only in reference to items that would be a limited time. I'm going to assume they would be holiday items like..christmas cosmetics being holiday only.

[jolly wasp]

Why don't you just use the $120-$180 you'd spend on a yearly sub and use it to buy the cosmetics you want instead?

[misty ruin]

Palia is a cosmetic game. What don't you understand about selling cosmetics in a purely cosmetic game?

[compact burrow]

which is why I don't play call of duty and don't think anyone should.

[remote latch]

And also we have some pinned documents that may answer some of your other questions about the game along with #❓│old-team-answers-alpha and #🌠│official-art which are updated regularly

[little silo]

Which is contrary to the design goal of making it as accessible to everyone as possible, and ends up costing hundreds or thousands of $$

[dense burrow]

because the cosmetics will be way higher priced that. otherwise it won't fund them.

[cursive lark]

But it is definitely like WhoaNonstop said, they wanted to make Palia a community sim, where EVERYONE can relax and play together, which might not have been possible with the game being b2p / p2p . These models would straight up go against their entire policy for this game. I think that making the game f2p with cosmetics is a real dedication from their side rather than making the game b2p/p2p, which definitely would be better (at least for start) judging by how many people got interested in the game after one simple trailer.

[wintry wasp]

Yeah but that won't happen. Even people who claim to hate cash shops often still spend money on them. We've been trained from a young age to spend and consume. We can't win without EVERYTHING changing.

[tacit flame]

I don’t believe it would ruin the game.

But it ruins aspect of it such as “be you or whatever you want”. Especially when social mmorpgs have the mentality to isolate those who “look like noobs”

[jolly wasp]

It's a cosmetic game to some, but probably not to the majority of its players. There's a ton of stuff to do in the game that has nothing to do with having pretty clothes.

[worthy rose]

I mean it is what it is, if they announced that the game would be p2p or subscription based we'd have a whole different crowd in here talking about how they wish they could play the game but they won't be able to afford it. The way I see it, being f2p has the opportunity to be predatory, but it also guarantees the largest audience. As long as S6 holds to their word, which they have so far, there won't be any problems

[sudden shoal]

Again, because they'd want a more stable monetization method that's less likely to fall on predatory practices

[unique juniper]

to me...palia is like..gaiaonline but in mmo form..where it was all cosmetics that you paid money for..which i never had an issue with personally..

[solar current]

Isn’t World of Warcraft a monthly sub-based game? They have no need to make players feel the need of buyong from cosmetic shops, unlike F2P. F2P, no matter how cool and good the free stuff is, they need to find how to attract player to buy from cashshop ultimately. Or they run out of funds, game over?

[compact burrow]

I do not spend money on them shrug it can happen

[long shard]

The whole idea of making it accessible to everyone seems naive to me, tbh. Not everyone has a computer or console. Not everyone speaks English

[remote latch]

I am sure they appreciate your heartfelt comment 🙂

[muted ether]

Which is why I'll throw them a question about location-adjusted pricing. Because whether it's $15 a month for a sub or $15 for a cosmetic; a player in Turkey will be equally hard-pressed to pay.

[sudden shoal]

Well we don't exactly know that, this is all speculation at the end of the day

[dusty root]

A cosmetic game? Oh, I guess all the crops would be cosmetic. Guess all the fishing and cooking is cosmetic. Guess all the crafting is cosmetic. Oh, wait. That's right. IT'S NOT. It's about community, grinding, and enjoying the game.

[raw kite]

Someone brought up an interesting take on a studios decision to go f2p on launch might show that they don't have faith in the product having a box price. It's also a large decision that heavily affects how the game is developed. Instead of developing around game play, it becomes developed around the cash shop as it's the only source of income.

[patent dust]

thats why theyre expanding to other languages and devices, such as mobile

[unique juniper]

wow is a monthly sub, buy the game, buy the expansion pack + they have an aggressive cosmetics shop.

[jolly wasp]

I mean, we do know that. They've spoken plenty about the various activities that will be in Palia.

[patent dust]

theyre trying to allow as many as possible

[whole geode]

It's still your choice. You don't need to pay anything. The game just offers you some things you may want to spend a few £ - $ on.

[little silo]

Sub fees are just a slow bleed that preys on your continued engagement, or God forbid you forget to turn off auto-draft.

[thin oar]

Which would incentivize them to put out more desirable cosmetics which I feel like is a lot easier than pumping out paid DLCs which at some point they will run out of player engagement ideas

[sharp loom]

thats such a bad take, no one will play a bad game so why would they spend on a shop in said bad game

[worthy rose]

the game development is more than fully funded by investors. That's why they aren't taking any donations or running kickstarter like campaigns

[misty ruin]

If the team already has reservations about the success of their game, what are we even doing here?

[compact burrow]

Yes and final fantasy is as well

[sudden shoal]

Yeah, but we haven't seen the game and we don't know how things will actually turn out
A lot of the time players influence the game more than the devs ever could

[compact burrow]

if they run out of story/gameplay ideas it is time to go make another game

[solar current]

Yeah, but they said that wow ingame stuff is more attractive than cashshop stuff. Which I meant that for F2P, they need waaaay better cashshop to actually attract people to buy. Same with FF @compact burrow

[long shard]

I feel like a lot of people are ignoring how some players don't find it as simple as "just don't buy it"

[maiden canopy]

I am sorry WHAT

[thin oar]

I can see that. But ultimately if the gameplay is ass then nobody would want to invest money into cosmetics for a game they don’t like

[jolly wasp]

Are the devs responsible for the players' lack of self-control?

[maiden canopy]

free PALIA

[stable walrus]

what is the point of this chat if people are only arguing about whether or not a game that they have no control over, that isn’t out yet, is free to play at launch, theres hundreds of examples to support either side and its better to just wait and see than arguing in a chat where it’s hard to even read the comment you’re trying to make because 50 others are already making it and another 50 are arguing against it

[past terrace]

If you’ve read anything from S6 ever and truly believe they want any player to suffer just for not buying a cosmetic …. I just don’t even know what to tell you.

[misty ruin]

It's pretty simple actually, we state that we hate F2P model. We don't play the game. They don't get money. They'll eventually realize it was a bad decision and will do differently with their next project.
If everybody does that, predatory F2P will eventually go away.

[molten spruce]

Can you guys do some sort of tiered founders edition? Maybe a title, some collectors edition cosmetic? I wanna support the devs a little extra in that sort of way

[raw kite]

I ask myself this question allot but there are plenty of examples out there (in my opinion of course 😄 )

[solar current]

For me, as long as I have fun, who cares? Use money to support a game you like ”if you can”.

[dusty root]

Nowhere did they say that all cosmetics would be cash shop only. There will more than likely be plenty of good looking stuff attainable for free. Just maybe that super-hard-to-craft luxury coat that is blue would be in the cash shop slightly modified and gold instead.

[lost tiger]

its not about story/gameplay all the time. palia is meant to be a chill game where you spend time with friends grinding together. take minecraft for example. there is nothing new to story / gameplay FOR A LONG TIME and people still play it as a main game.

[wise osprey]

i think that's because they're mostly speaking in a bigger scope than actions themselves are able to do

[unique juniper]

i disagree slightly, the mounts in the cashshop in wow are often nicer than the player obtainable ones.

[versed zealot]

the devs for this came from WoW, they are doing monetization opposite from WoW because so many people can't afford it.

[thin oar]

Which would take years and lots of money to get enough support to make a new game lol. I respectfully agree to disagree with you

[long shard]

This is about more than a "lack of self control" this is about people with mental disorders. Addictive personalities

[patent dust]

discussion is fine, as long as it stays civil and people arent attacking each other

[muted ether]

That's ... Disingenuous when the announcement specifically explains how they'll avoid predatory monetisation. If you want to call them liars, you'll have to prove it.

[dense burrow]

it's the system, we've seen it many times, already they are showing of really cool outfits only available by paying.

[jolly wasp]

Or, the people who hate the F2P model are in the minority and everyone else is too busy having fun with the game to care. We'll just have to wait and see.

[wise osprey]

I feel that this is going to happen the more info we get and that sucks

[sharp loom]

well t hats probably a subjective thats why. but just because the revenue comes from the cash shop doesnt mean they can neglect the product as a whole.

[misty ruin]

That's the beauty of non-released F2P MMOs. The only way to show they will eventually go predatory is to wait and let them demonstrate it themselves.

[maiden canopy]

Lost ark is free to play and great fun, so palia can be too. I don;'t see the issue

[muted ether]

In dubio pro reo.

[steep sundial]

Its basically onto the devs whether or not they screw this up. F2P can work really well, but they have to actively stop themselves from gimping the f2p skins to make more money off the paid ones

[jolly wasp]

Again...why is that the responsibility of the devs?

[sharp loom]

can confirm, playing rn haha

[buoyant heath]

It's an English only chat at the moment

[rocky solstice]

so it's safer to assume a company who is made up of game devs who left big players in the industry to make their own, cozy studio will be predatory?

[sudden shoal]

Imma leave the discourse (for the time being at least)
But as a final note, let's keep in mind we know probably only like 40% about how the monetization will work, and most things that are being talked about here are purely speculative whether they're negative or positive, and rely on how much trust you have for the devs, which sure isn't objective

[compact burrow]

Not at the cost of game design no. Much rather play a well designed game with less players than a poorly designed game with many players. If I wanted that there are many Japanese gatcha games I could be playing

[wheat heron]

Or we're the people who have played free to play games before who touted their cosmetic only cash shops as the god and savior and watched them fail spectacularly and alienate a signifcant portion of their player-base.

[solar current]

I feel like they aren’t like close compared to ”looking like a beggar” vs ”cashshop cosmetics” in for example BDO F2P. The need to buy. As someone else said. I don’t really know 🥲

[little silo]

Furthermore, it can be mitigated by not obfuscating transactions behind random drops or limited time windows or artificial scarcity tactics.

[rocky solstice]

this is all ridiculous pearl clutching, it is strictly more accessible if it is free, the devs are not responsible for anyone's wallet nor their self-control, and Palia is a comfy, cozy game and yall are making this chat very not comfy cozy

[sharp loom]

this is some strawman level arguments, being more accessible doesnt mean game design is neglected lol

[worthy rose]

pearl abyss and singularity 6 are very different studios

[whole geode]

For more information - visit - https://palia.com/palia-business-model/ Remember, the choice is yours. The game is F2P and only you can decide what to do with your money.

[arctic onyx]

yknow those are not mutually exclusive

[maiden canopy]

it also doesn't mean the opposite 😄