📚｜english-questions

[bitter hill]

-cambridge

[eternal cobalt]

Exactly

[boreal ingot]

Okay, it means both, lmao. Look at the two below the main definition

[cloud badge]

Much obliged is like saying 'i was obligated'.

[eternal cobalt]

Somewhat

It's hard to grasp the actual meaning of the phrase until you're using it.

[cloud badge]

Just with more thankfulness, but always in response to someone

[eternal cobalt]

Thanks for taking me on this date much obliged

[cloud badge]

What are you obliged to have done

How can you be obliged if I 'took you on a date'

[boreal ingot]

It can mean both grateful and obligated to

[eternal cobalt]

Because you're grateful

[boreal ingot]

Thank you for all your help. I'm very much obliged.
^ I'm grateful and indebted to you

You are obliged to keep your patients' information private.
^ required, obligated

I don't think it can really mean 'you're welcome'

[eternal cobalt]

It doesn't

[cloud badge]

Who told you that?

[eternal cobalt]

Not at all

[eternal cobalt]

That it means that?

It wasn't really told to me.

I just picked it up along the way.

[cloud badge]

So if you tell me that you're much obliged, you're telling me that i am greatful? No, you have no idea if im greatful

[eternal cobalt]

I meant as in I'm greatful

I posed as if you were to say

It

[boreal ingot]

You don't need to listen to me. Here's what Cambridge dictionary says @cloud badge
It means either grateful or obligated/forced

[eternal cobalt]

Yes exactly

[cloud badge]

If you say 'much obliged' its generally in the past tense, as in 'i felt obligated so don't worry about it' aka 'you are very much obliged to my help' if you say 'im much obliged to you' it means 'i feel obligated to return the favor somehow'

Maybe I'm just more used to hearing it as a response, than as a thanks by way of feeling obligated to return the favor or make it up to the person who helped me.

[eternal cobalt]

How about this word phenomenon.

[boreal ingot]

You're welcome; I felt obliged to help you.
^ This is using the obligated meaning

Thank you so much for helping me! I'm truly obliged.
^ This is using the grateful and indebted meaning.

If you would help me, I'd be much obliged.
^ This is using the grateful and indebted meaning.

[cloud badge]

Yeah exactly, my point is, at least any time I've heard only the two words 'much obliged' as a sentence, it's used as 'you are obliged to me' not i am obliged to you, which is the second and third example.

[boreal ingot]

It can be used in a 'youre welcome' with extra words

But on its own, it's a short version of 'I am much obliged'

[boreal ingot]

Idk anymore tbh

[boreal ingot]

What about it lol

[cloud badge]

The first sentence is the only use of 'much obliged' as a standalone sentence, that i know.

[eternal cobalt]

Laugh out loud or lol is a text you send to show that what was sent is funny

[boreal ingot]

Idk which meaning is more common, to be honest

[bitter hill]

I don't think I've ever seen 'much obliged' used in that first sense

[cloud badge]

'I felt obligated' and 'you are obliged' are the same basically

[bitter hill]

Or seen

[boreal ingot]

I- yes? I didn't ask about that. I asked what about the word phenomenon

[cloud badge]

And much obliged, to me, always implied 'you are obliged to my help'

[boreal ingot]

Wha, no? You are obliged to[x] means you are required to do [x]

[eternal cobalt]

Phenomenon is something that is unexplained

[cloud badge]

Aka i am obligated to help you

[bitter hill]

Maybe it's a regional diff because that's definitely not a thing for me

[cloud badge]

Maybe.

[boreal ingot]

Maybe yea

[eternal cobalt]

Like the new fish found are a phenomenon

[cloud badge]

Where are ya from?

[eternal cobalt]

Me Ireland

[boreal ingot]

Yes, I know. I was asking why you brought it up 😭

[cloud badge]

East coast here usa

[sly pier]

Can someone briefly explain what the debate here is about?

[bitter hill]

Which state?

[eternal cobalt]

I just wanted to know if you knew what it meant

[boreal ingot]

Much obliged's meaning

[eternal cobalt]

understanding the phrase much obliged

[sly pier]

“Thank you/I am grateful to you”

[cloud badge]

Nj/nyc/ive heard it like that often in the south as well

[sly pier]

in my experience

[boreal ingot]

SEE, RED 😭

We've been saying

[boreal ingot]

How about in stuff like 'I felt obliged to help', that means obligated, right?

[bitter hill]

Interesting

I'm VA

[cloud badge]

Thats 'im obliged' though. Much obliged in my experience, as a phrase, implies YOU are obliged to ME

[boreal ingot]

Why would you tell someone THEY are grateful

[bitter hill]

Most online sources list 'much obliged' as a shortened form of 'i am obliged to you', so I can only assume there's some sort of different convention in that nyc area

[sly pier]

“I felt like I should (have) help(ed)”

Yes, obligated. It’s a different thing.

[cloud badge]

Sorry yall, don't mean to make things heated, id love to continue and hear more and share my experience but, its Christmas present time xp hope im not stressing anyone. Im very confidant in my usage tho. Ttyl!

[boreal ingot]

Alrighty, just wanted to be sure. It seems where Red comes from it's used differently, which confused me a bit

[boreal ingot]

Goodbye, have a lovely day

[boreal ingot]

Do you think Nyte would use it that way? Im pretty sure he's from New York (the state)

Idk if you remember him

[bitter hill]

Best to ask him lol

[boreal ingot]

Yeye I will

[boreal ingot]

Well, ig New Yorkers just understand it differently ig. Idk the answer doesn't clear much up

[bitter hill]

Well ig that's +1 to the regional difference 🤣

[boreal ingot]

Lol

[cloud badge]

You are much obliged to me actually means the opposite of you are greatful to me, it means I am greatful to you. If i am obligated to you, you are obliged to me. Its like, you are employed to me vs i am your employer. You are obliged to me, i have obligations towards you. Pretty sure.

[cloud badge]

"Obligations and Obliged
Based on the provided search results, “you are obliged to me” means that I (the speaker) am morally or socially bound to reciprocate or return a favor to you, rather than the other way around. This phrase is often used in expressions such as “much obliged”. “I am obliged to you,” conveys gratitude and a sense of duty to repay kindness."

[spiral lynx]

It means, '' it's my responsibility to care about you as...idk
Or kinda

Right?

[spiral lynx]

Oh

I got the meaning as someone in depth to someone else for their kindness or good deeds and so they areobliged to repay that person for his or her kindness

My brain is messing up i need to sleep

[cloud badge]

Yeah, so if you say it after doing a favor to for someone, and they thanked you, you're telling them that they are your responsibilty, there's no need for thanks, you are yourself thankful.

[severe shoal]

Hello everyone.
I was listning to a music when I heard the sentence "I can t ever keep from falling apart at the seams"
Then i asked myself: does "at the seams "can make sense when used alone
For instance:my car is about to pass away ,it is at the seams

[cloud badge]

This phrase comes from the sewing seams of a piece of clothing, most clothing has many seams, and only breaking or splitting at one, wouldnt really qualify as falling apart. You always have to say what it is doing as well, is the car breaking at its seam? (Where would a seam on a car be, metaphorically). You should say its doing something at the seams, like for example, if the doors, hood, bumper, and a mirror are breaking or falling off, itd be falling apart at the seams. Its losing all structure that makes it what it is. Its not just about something not working anymore.

[severe shoal]

I said it because in french ,when something is about to breack metephoricaly or physicaly, we say "....ne tient plus qu a un fil" (holding on a single seams)

[cloud badge]

Oh, we have a similar phrase, we say 'hanging on by a thread' but i think that happens before it falls apart at the seams. Once that thread breaks, it starts to fall apart.

[severe shoal]

Thank you ,I really apreciate such precision

[cloud badge]

My pleasure c:

[timid gazelle]

Gerund is NOT a verb no matter the context, circumstances or implied meanings.
-Ing forms of verbs can function in two ways - they turn verbs into either nouns (gerunds) or adjectives.
Yes, nouns can be different, they can be countable, abstract, gerunds, compound, collective, plural, proper and so much more, but all of them are nouns.
If they were verbs, then we could do them right? To love is a verb. Well, I can love. To understand is a verb. Well, I can understand. To want is a verb and you can see the pattern. If gerunds were verbs, I could say "I can loving", "I can understanding". But speaking this way demonstrates a heavy grammatical accent. We cannot do the ing-forms, we can only BE them. As well as we can be any other noun or adjective. "I am feeling", "I am trying" (here they are adjectives obviously). I can't say "I am feel" or "I am try" because verbs can never modify verbs, this is one of the most fundamental rules of English. And to say that ing-forms are gramatically verbs is to suggest this fundamental rule does not apply here although it applies in any other situation with no exceptions whatsoever.
What parts of speech can take articles? Only nouns. Well, we can say "that was a dangerous driving", "it was some gambling", "the very understanding of the situation". I cannot say "the very understand" or "quite some speak that was". Only nouns can follow preposition, well ing-forms do so. "After trying so many times", "before working", "I got used to feeling weird". Never can I say "after try so many times".
To sum it up, no matter how we look at them, ing-forms never act as verbs. It would make no sense if they did.

Definitions:
Gerund — 'a verb form which functions as a noun'.
Being — noun: existence.
Acting — noun: the art or occupation of performing fictional roles in plays, films, or television
Wrestling — noun: the sport or activity of grappling with an opponent and trying to throw or hold them down on the ground, typically according to a code of rules

Ing-forms can't be verbs because it makes no sense and totally complicate a very simple system: verbs, nouns and adjectives working together to make sense. If we say the ing-forms are verbs, we say the English rules are deliberate and self-contradictory. 'This thing can be a noun, but sometimes it's a verb, oh and by the way it's an adjective too'. Well, then it's nothing.
What ing-forms are is nouns and adjectives depending on the context, but never verbs because they never work as verbs.

[bitter hill]

Gerunds are verbs, though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund

An -ing form is termed gerund when it behaves as a verb within a clause (so that it may be modified by an adverb or have an object); but the resulting clause as a whole (sometimes consisting of only one word, the gerund itself) functions as a noun within the larger sentence.

For example, consider the sentence "Eating this cake is easy." Here, the gerund is the verb eating, which takes an object this cake. The entire clause eating this cake is then used as a noun, which in this case serves as the subject of the larger sentence.

From cgel

[cloud badge]

But eating is not a verb, eat is a verb.

[bitter hill]

Eating is a verb in the example from Wikipedia. The larger gerund phrase that it is a part of [Eating this cake] functions like a noun. I assume that's where the confusion stems from

[cloud badge]

Gerunds start as verbs, but they're turned into not verbs when becoming a gerund i think..

[timid gazelle]

Yes, ing-forms resemble verbs very clearly in this case. But only in this one. This is the case.
"Eating fast is prohibited".
Yes, I can't say "A dinner fast is prohibited".
And we can think of many more examples where ing-forms have some qualities of a verb, but again, it happens only in one situation - in the situation of making "it" out of a sentence.
I hate [eating fast] = I hate it
[Waking up at 5 a.m. before work] kills me = it kills me

I mean yes, we can look into it and think how close gerunds are to verbs in such cases, but what we're doing then is looking into a single peace of a picture without acknowledging it as a whole. And the whole is the fact that these sentences are always nouns.

In other words what gerunds do here is say 'hey, pay attention to the fact that this sentence is only a part of a bigger one - only a subject or an object of a complete sentence (either way a noun)'

[flat rune]

What is the difference between shed and pour ?

[boreal ingot]

For what you said about verbs not being able to modify other verbs, that's entirely incorrect.

... verbs can never modify verbs, this is one of the most fundamental rules of English.
^ Auxiliary verbs often modify verbs to add meaning.

You may look.
^ 'may' modifies 'look'
She may have tried to do something.
^ 'may' and 'have' both modify 'tried'

'be' when used to form the continuous aspect is not a copular verb, but rather an auxiliary verb. When used to form the continuous aspect, it requires that the verb it modifies be in its -ing form, just like 'have' requires the verb it modifies to be a past participle.

You can't say 'I can loving' not because 'loving' isn't a verb, but because 'can' requires the verb that follows it to be an infinitive.

They also are not always adjectives (or, more precisely, adjectival) in constructions like 'am feeling'. To explain, consider what 'Jane is entertaining' means (an example I got from a StackExchange post that explains why the present continuous isn't a copular verb with a predicative present participle acting adjectivally). It can be interpreted in two ways. 1., generally, Jane has the quality of being fun and amusing (this is when you understand 'entertaining' to be a present participle acting adjectivally and being linked to teh subject by the copula 'be'), or 2., Jane, at this moment, is in the process of entertaining some individual/s (this is when you interpret it as a verb, or a present participle that's being modified by the auxiliary verb 'be' to create the continuous aspect).

When you interpret 'to be' there as a copula, then you recognise 'entertaining' as acting adjectivally and thus you also recognise it can't have a noun complement, like most adjectives can't. I.e., you can't say 'Jane is entertaining people' without the meaning changing from 1., Jane is generally a fun amusing person, to 2., Jane is in the process of entertaining people.

This all exemplifies the existence of a distinction between a present participle acting adjectivally after 'be' and a present participle combining with the auxiliary be to form the continuous aspect. Further evidence would be that when it's acting as verbally, you can't modify 'entertaining' with an adverb like 'more' to make it comparative.

Jane is more entertaining
Jane is more entertaining people

I've already explained why gerunds are verbal forms in the message you replied to.

[cloud badge]

Shed comes off of something, usually in small parts, and usually repetitively. Like a snake sheds its skin. Pour is something falling or coming out of something, often pretty fast. Like, it is pouring rain (water is falling fast out from the clouds) or milk is pouring out of a pitcher. Some extra furry dogs may shed so much that its almost like their fur is pouring off of their body, but, usually pouring only refers to things tasty are acting like a liquid.

[hoary lichen]

pour is a liquid function of flowing fast which can also mean moving in a large number
shed is a solid function of taking off something

[flat rune]

pour is for water etc

[hoary lichen]

not necessarily

thats just where its derived from

if ur talking about moving water into a cup

youd say you pour the water into the cup

because it flows into the cup

while i could also say i shed my coat

aka i took the coat off

pour links closer to flowing and shed is more of a singular action

[cloud badge]

You actuality can say 'jane is entertaining people'and mean that she is a fun person. But that's using the phrase 'good people' or 'x people'. She's good people can mean she's a good person to have have as company. But that's kind of unrelated i think. But also, verbal forms are not verbs. If they were verbs, the term verbal form would not exist. They're not verbs, they're verb-using ways to make non verbs.

[boreal ingot]

oh, gerundial noun is a much better name for them than verbal noun (which is what I used to call those). This is really good to know. These two screenshots really clear up a lot, thank you for sending them 💜
I don't get the final note about gerunds v. particples, but I'll try to reread it later and see what I understand. If you could explain it that would also be appreciated

[boreal ingot]

I always forget 'good people' is a thing lol. I have only ever seen it being talked about (as in, in English questions, or mentioned, as you have), but never in actual use

[bitter hill]

A gerund phrase functioning as a noun at the phrase or sentence level does not mean the gerund is necessarily a noun at the word level, per cgel. Going by your explanation and example, I think you're trying to say that they're (basically) nouns at the sentence level, which nobody is arguing against. I'm referring to the internal behavior and classification of the gerund itself at the word level.

The 'Gerunds in English' section in the Wikipedia page I linked goes over this, in addition to the screenshots from cgel. At the word level, gerunds can be classified as verbs. You're referring to its function at the sentence level. Even grammarly follows this line of thinking:

A gerund (pronounced JER-und) is a verb that’s acting as a noun. By that, we mean that the verb—the word that describes the action that’s happening, like “biking,” “thinking,” “running,” or “speaking”—becomes a thing, a concept that can now be the sentence’s subject, direct object, indirect object, or the object of a preposition.

It doesn’t stop being a verb, but the role it plays in a sentence shifts from describing the action to being a focal point.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/66/whats-the-difference-between-a-gerund-and-a-participle
And consider this comment under the top reply in this post:

Gerunds are traditionally analysed as being able to function as constituents the same way as nouns, but taking mostly verbal arguments themselves. So they are "externally" nouns, "internally" verbs. And there are always edge cases, as Nohat says. But the criterion "a gerund phrase can be replaced with a noun" is in most cases fairly clear and satisfactory.

Depending on your source, they do make the distinction/clarification. And if we do look into it as a singular piece of a picture within a gerund phrase, it is in this internal structure that we can classify gerunds as verbs. I want to emphasize we are referring to different things.

[boreal ingot]

ngl I woke up and found we're out of coffee, so I can feel a headache coming up I'm tired of arguing since the moment I woke up lmao

[warm rampart]

geebos law states the opposite

[cloud badge]

Ive had somebody tell me 'yknow, [red], youre good people' once, its rare but people do use it xD

[hoary lichen]

paladins states the opposite

[warm rampart]

no way you play paladins

[hoary lichen]

in 2018 i bought the all champion pack when i used to play on my switch

i havnet played since

but they added cross progression

[warm rampart]

that was the game I played on my PS4 because I didn't have ps online to play overwatch

[hoary lichen]

so im absolutely cranking it

i just installed it in like 10m

[warm rampart]

blud

[hoary lichen]

blud

[warm rampart]

that's so MUSTARDDDDDDD coded

[cloud badge]

Hav some tea maybee, cure headache n peaceful vibes c:

[boreal ingot]

I would have a moment of severe confusion if anyone ever told me that lmao

[boreal ingot]

Ye I'll do that :3

[crisp elm]

Hellow everyone! I have 1 question!

I was playing a old action video game, and this hero of the game, say "stay down!" I use the google translator for my languague... (portuguese) but... i don't understand it... 😬

What is the meaning of this speech?

[hoary lichen]

its when they defeat someone "stay down" is like the same as "take that", its an exclamation

it doesnt REALLY have a literal meaning, unless they are physically on the floor

metaphorically theyve been knocked down and the hero is telling them to stay down to rub it in

[crisp elm]

The hero in game, say this... during combat...

[hoary lichen]

yes

theres not much else i can say

its an exclamation

[crisp elm]

Aaa

I understood!

Thanks man!

[hoary lichen]

👍

[tidal lily]

Are stay down and stay put the same ?

[hoary lichen]

not in this context

stay is usually more passive

and would be here

[boreal ingot]

I had seen the dancing lady from afar, then I witnessed you approaching her with ill-intent.

Should that comma be a semicolon?

Should the 'then' have a comma after?

[nimble sundial]

maybe you could put a comma after "witnessed you"

[boreal ingot]

but 'you approaching her with ill-intent' is like, connected

why should I split it

[cloud badge]

If anything it should be after then or her, after you sounds unnatural.

[nimble sundial]

ok i see

[nimble sundial]

depends how you want it to sound

tone-wise

[cloud badge]

As for the first comma, no it should stay a comma.

[boreal ingot]

but there isn't a conjunction

Could you explain to me why a semicolon would be incorrect

[nimble sundial]

i think it could work actually

[cloud badge]

If you removed the then, a semicolon would be ok, but as is, its perfect. An extra comma after her would add some drama and emphasis to the ill intent but it's not needed.

[nimble sundial]

^

[boreal ingot]

I see I see, thank you both

[nimble sundial]

ofc brody

[boreal ingot]

I have never heard 'brody' before

what does it mean, if I may ask

[nimble sundial]

its slang

i think specifically northeastern reigon USA

(or at least thats where i live)

[nimble sundial]

just means bro

[boreal ingot]

I see

thanks for explaining

[verbal heron]

Is it a combination of brother and buddy?

[nimble sundial]

it could be, not gonna lie 😂

[verbal heron]

lol, newly made words like this are decipherable through context tho

[nimble sundial]

they are

[verbal heron]

Provided that such words created by linguists or authors

[nimble sundial]

yes, brody

[nimble sundial]

words such as brody, or others?

[verbal heron]

Others

[nimble sundial]

yea pretty much

[verbal heron]

because brody is not a term to be found in the dictionary

[nimble sundial]

yea it wont

its slang

but i think brain rot was recently going to be added?

[bitter hill]

I think it's technically a comma splice here because the proper usage should be 'and then', but people use 'then' as a conjunction quite often

[verbal heron]

I even remember that once I heard broski

[nimble sundial]

so that implies a word just needs widespread adoption to be for the dictionary

[nimble sundial]

yea i hear that lol

[verbal heron]

To Oxford?

[nimble sundial]

yes?

[verbal heron]

Has it the same meaning as "brother" does ?

[nimble sundial]

i dont remember fully

[nimble sundial]

broski?

[verbal heron]

yea

[nimble sundial]

yea

[boreal ingot]

Oh, I see. Is 'then' a conjunctive adverb? I hear those are typically preceeded by a semicolon buit also serve to transition the sentence

And would that mean it should have a comma after it? As 'however' and other conjunctive adverbs would?

[verbal heron]

I remember reading a newspaper where they stated that the word "rizz" was being added to OALD last year

[nimble sundial]

😭😭

[verbal heron]

lol

[nimble sundial]

i forgot about that haha

[bitter hill]

Yeah

[nimble sundial]

@verbal heron how good is your rizz on a scale of ?/10

[verbal heron]

0

tbh

wbu?

[nimble sundial]

oh

i see

[nimble sundial]

uhh

id say 6/10

[verbal heron]

How is 'Nick' a female name?

[verbal heron]

That's impressive

[boreal ingot]

Yes to both?

[nimble sundial]

oh no, ignore that 😭

[nimble sundial]

im flattered lmao

[verbal heron]

I never heard of any female with that name

[nimble sundial]

and you still haven't, im a dude lol

the pronouns are a joke

[boreal ingot]

So it should be this?

I had seen the dancing lady from afar; then, I witnessed you approaching her with ill-intent.
Got it

Btw would a comma before 'with' be incorrect? I don't really know why one would be there

[verbal heron]

Still one can't be sure of oneself unless the person whose gender is unknown, otherwise it's a matter of guess

[nimble sundial]

what

[verbal heron]

I used a word wrongly 💀

[nimble sundial]

i noticed 😭

[verbal heron]

I don't remember the word I was looking for, it somewhat started with the letter 's'

But replaceable with conjecture

[nimble sundial]

its a synonym for conjecture?

[verbal heron]

What? Surplice?

[nimble sundial]

is it supposition?

[verbal heron]

it wasn't the letter I remember to have seen used somewhere else

[bitter hill]

It wouldn't be incorrect. It just depends on whether you want it to be restrictive or nonrestrictive. A comma after her would imply that the manner of approaching (with ill-intent) is supplemental

[nimble sundial]

ok

thats the only word i found that started with 's'

that i know

[boreal ingot]

Oh that makes a lot of sense, thank you!

[verbal heron]

Ah, don't worry, I will find it myself

[nimble sundial]

very well

[verbal heron]

I think I found that in either Oliver Twist or Pride and Prejudice

[cloud badge]

My sister calls her best friend nick occasionally, her name is Nicole and she usually goes by nikki, but sometimes they shorten it even more to make it one syllable. Very common around where i live :p

[verbal heron]

Yet that's not a name given by her parents

I mean she was named Nicole

[cloud badge]

Yeah its her nickname

Ha literally

[verbal heron]

Yea

A nickname may be a contempt name as well

[cloud badge]

People can put their nicknames in their discord profiles

A contempt name? Never heard of that

I understand the concept i think but that's not 'a thing' as far as i know

[verbal heron]

Yes you are right

[cloud badge]

:p

[verbal heron]

Even I haven't heard of it tbh

[cloud badge]

Lolol

[verbal heron]

But nickname can have two meanings

[cloud badge]

What, is that like a name you call someone you don't like cuz you don't respect them enough to is their intended name?

[nimble sundial]

"man"

[verbal heron]

1. A name which is shorted from the original or replaced with another name
2. A name used to mock at someone specifically

[nimble sundial]

😂

[cloud badge]

Huh?

[verbal heron]

I think that may not be a very known concept there

[cloud badge]

Yeah i know it's not, i was wondering if that's what you were thinking when you wrote it tho

[nimble sundial]

if you don't like someone you just brush them off with like "yeah, man 😐 "

in response to them talking to you

[verbal heron]

Based upon someone's nature or physical appeareance, some persons are named in countrysides

Especially if they differ from the rest, or display eccentric behaviour

[cloud badge]

Ah, true, yeah that would fit i think. Or like 'jabroni' or 'bruh'

[nimble sundial]

😭

not jabroni

thats funny lol

[verbal heron]

'Jabroni'?

[cloud badge]

Lol its funny but still implying youre speaking to a fool xD

So, light hearted contempt haha

[cloud badge]

It means like, dummy, silly, goof ball, etc

[verbal heron]

and they are called by that name their whole life

[cloud badge]

Are you saying that's a type of nickname?

[verbal heron]

Oh I see

[nimble sundial]

i didnt know it had an actual meaning

[boreal ingot]

'bud'

[verbal heron]

yea, but more like a mockery

[nimble sundial]

i dont hear people say it tho

[cloud badge]

Yeah im from the philly area, its not uncommon here

[verbal heron]

I think 'bud' is common for 'buddy'

[boreal ingot]

yea

and both are often used as 'contempt names'

let's make that a thing lol: 'contempt name'

[nimble sundial]

that makes so much sense now

[cloud badge]

Yeah, more bud than buddy but both are used both ways

[cloud badge]

xD

[verbal heron]

Really? But 'buddy' is also used in a broader sense these days

[verbal heron]

In this server? lol

[boreal ingot]

Yea, like when someone is being dumb you can say, for example,

Sure thing, buddy. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[nimble sundial]

hahahah

[boreal ingot]

'bud' is more common like that, but 'buddy' is often used that way too

[cloud badge]

yess haha it makes sense, i like the concept haha

[boreal ingot]

'fam' can be used that way as well

You looking for trouble, fam?

'mate'

[nimble sundial]

thats def more british

[boreal ingot]

basically anything lol

[verbal heron]

But now a days people use it without any pride too

[boreal ingot]

'nowadays' is one word!

Idk what you mean by pride though? Buddy has never implied pride to me

Maybe I am mistaken

[cloud badge]

'im not you fam, buddy.' 'i aint ur buddy, pal' 'i aint your pal, kid' 'i aint a kid, bud' etcetc

[nimble sundial]

im not your brah, brah

like in zoolander

[boreal ingot]

I find this more funny than I should 😭

funnier* so funny I forgot how to speak

[cloud badge]

xD

[cloud badge]

funnier and more funny are both perfectly acceptable c:

[verbal heron]

Sometimes it is written as now-a-days too

[cloud badge]

just dont say funner and youre good

[boreal ingot]

Idk, it feels off to use 'more funny' in place of 'funnier'. Like it doesn't sound natural to me, but I'm not sure if it's a mistake per se. I doubt it is

[cloud badge]

yeah or just now a days

[verbal heron]

If you are mocking others, it means you are displaying a sense of superciliousness

[cloud badge]

thats ok, its totally up to you, just know that theyre both 100% correct

[cloud badge]

thats so silly...

[verbal heron]

Both of them feel alright, but 'funniest' would sound awkward

[cloud badge]

super silly, you might even say...

xp

[verbal heron]

Nah

[nimble sundial]

insert silly cat with tongue out

[cloud badge]

lolol u get it

[boreal ingot]

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/commonly-confused-words/nowadays-or-now-days/

seems it's only ever 'nowadays' acording to grammarly, but 'now-a-days' doesn't look bad to me :p It's defo never 'now a days' though

[cloud badge]

ok i should go now im too amaretto and wined up for this now hahaha bye bye for now ppls ^-^

[boreal ingot]

meant to reply to this ^

[verbal heron]

ok

[boreal ingot]

ye not making fun of you or anything, just giving a small correction

[boreal ingot]

lmao that's a word apparently

[boreal ingot]

[nimble sundial]

thank you

[verbal heron]

Alright, no worries, and I am sorry for the curt response

[nimble sundial]

thats the exact cat too

[verbal heron]

what?

[boreal ingot]

superciliousness, I just found the word funny

[verbal heron]

why

[boreal ingot]

Yea it's alright

[boreal ingot]

do you all choose the emoji from the emoji list or write a colon and the first few letters then choose from the pop-up list?

[nimble sundial]

i press windows + .

and then type in the emoji

[boreal ingot]

that's was... unexpected lmao

[nimble sundial]

yea its really fast

[boreal ingot]

🔥🔥🔥

oh damn it is fast

wow

but no server emoji 😔

[hoary lichen]

\😈

[nimble sundial]

yea its windows only

[boreal ingot]

why are you evil

[hoary lichen]

\👿

[nimble sundial]

🙈😈

[boreal ingot]

stop being evil you all

[hoary lichen]

\🐒

[boreal ingot]

emoji of a curious entity

[hoary lichen]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1196642066378268745/1316493498249253096/attachment.gif

\😹

[boreal ingot]

:smiling_cat:

we need one

I demand a smiling cat

[hoary lichen]

\😺

[verbal heron]

Search for it

[hoary lichen]

😺

[verbal heron]

That's a blunt smile

[hoary lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-cat-brush-silly-gif-22229371

[boreal ingot]

😸

oh it looks awful

[verbal heron]

niw this is too sharp

[verbal heron]

Yea

[verbal heron]

Is it a giant rat?

😃

I think we need a grinning a cat

[acoustic geyser]

Are "will" and "be going to" interchangeable when we use to talk about something is 100% certain in the future?

[bitter hill]

Yeah

The train will depart at 11

[boreal ingot]

Here you can talk about different languages, or create your conlangs
This comma is incorrect, right?

[bitter hill]

The comma is unnecessary but that doesn't necessarily make it incorrect

[boreal ingot]

How is it correct? It seems to me to be seperating the preposition from its object

[bitter hill]

Some writers add a comma in compound predicates for clarity

[boreal ingot]

Right, I see

And the missing comma after 'here', what of it?

[bitter hill]

https://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp
3c for example

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30516/should-i-use-a-comma-before-and-or-or
Tragicomic's comment under top reply

[bitter hill]

That's up to preference

[boreal ingot]

I see I see, though this sentence doesn't seem like it would be ambigious without the comma, no?

I mean, in such sentences I'd just include the subject again to eliminate ambiguity, but it's good to know this is also an option

[boreal ingot]

By the way, after a bit of Googling, I have learnt that 'what of it' is considered rude. Did my sentence read as rude?

[bitter hill]

Not ambiguous but commas represent pauses in speech, so if you wanted to add a pause there for some certain effect, that's an option too

[boreal ingot]

I see, that makes sense

thank you

[bitter hill]

I didn't even process that tbh, I just read up to 'here' lol

[boreal ingot]

oh lol, well, do you have any comment about it now

[bitter hill]

Yeah I'd say that'd come across as rude to people you're not familiar with

[boreal ingot]

maybe I entierly misused it? I meant it more literally than 'So?? What of it?? That doesn't matter'

[bitter hill]

Or actually

It doesn't really read as rude to me the way it's used here, but my perspective could be biased because I already know your intention

[boreal ingot]

I see, maybe I'll ask other abt it

But this isn't the same usage as 'So what? What of it?' right? It feels somehow different but I don't know why

[bitter hill]

Hmm, yeah I'd say you're using it in a different sense

Kind of like...

And the missing comma after 'here', what [to make] of it?

[boreal ingot]

Alrighty, many thanks for all your help :>

[brave quiver]

I better say “what are u going to do during the holidays?” or “What will you be doing during the holidays?”? What tense should I use

and what will be the difference

[hoary lichen]

it’s more common in american english

very less so in british

we are inherently taught that a conjunction takes the place of punctuation when it can support it at times

[proven tendon]

Hello everybody..!!

[flat rune]

what is the difference between bestow, give and, grant ?

[acoustic geyser]

I don't know how conditional clauses work

Can anyone help?

[modest nimbus]

help :d

[flat rune]

Can someone tell me the difference between maybe and might?

[compact elbow]

difference between "to succeed in" and "to succeed at"? By searching up on the internet, I came around that "succeed at" is usually followed by a verb in -ing form, whereas "succeed in" can be followed by either a verb or a noun. Is it right?

[compact elbow]

Since he asked for additional time to finish the project but yet he's got to finish it tonight, that means his request got rejected. Basically replace "did" with "rejected".

[languid citrus]

Maybe I will go to the party after all, as I understand that Mary will be there. I might even get to dance with her.

[hoary lichen]

it is right

succeed at is more towards activities

succeed in is much more general

which is why you can still say “succeed at something”, something just takes the placeholder of the activity

[boreal ingot]

rejected

did -> rejected

[boreal ingot]

Is

here that being the pharmacy
correct?

[bitter hill]

What's the context

[boreal ingot]

comment between round brackets

specifically, this is about a language exrecise

[bitter hill]

'That' referring to [x]?

[boreal ingot]

yea

maybe 'here' should have been at the end?

I guess I'd liek to know if it's gramamtical and how it could be made better

[bitter hill]

It might be better to use 'x' instead of 'that' and maybe something like 'in this instance' or 'in this case' instead of 'here'

(x being the pharmacy in this instance)

[boreal ingot]

That does sound better yea

Im guessing it's not ungrammatical but just extremely stilted? What I had, I mean

[bitter hill]

I think so

But either way, it expresses the intended meaning well enough

[boreal ingot]

got it

thank you lots

[boreal ingot]

There I stayed for some time at a private hotel in the Strand, leading a comfortless, meaningless existence, and spending [such money as I had], considerably more freely than I [ought].

1. What does 'such money as I had' mean exactly?
2. Is it correct to say 'ought' like that? I had had the understanding that 'ought' must be followed by 'to'?Or in this case, it should be 'ought to have', I believe

[gaunt mango]

"such money as i had" is older english. it basically means "the small money that i had" (small because the word such indicates it's a small amount)

"ought" is again, older or archaic. It's correct because of that but in modern day english, yeah you always typically follow ought with to

"I stayed for some time at a private hotel in Strand, leading a comfortless, meaningless existence, and spending the small amount of money that i have, considerably more freely than i ought to"

(I'm not sure what Strand is, if it's a city then there is no "the" prepositioning it)

[boreal ingot]

it's a street in London according to google

but yeah, thanks

[gaunt mango]

ah i see

on the strand

or more formally on strand st

[boreal ingot]

Well, this is from a book. I didn't really choose the wording

[gaunt mango]

yeah i can tell

it's just an older piece of text

[gaunt mango]

wild

[boreal ingot]

I just find it very odd that they ellipsed the words 'to have'

rarely have I seen 'ought' not followed by 'to'

[gaunt mango]

sorry, ellipsed?

ellipsies like the oval or ellipsies like three dots "..."

[boreal ingot]

would you say it mean 'money like what I had' instead of 'small amount of money'? I feel it's the 'such' of comparision, perhaps? As in 'such words are not to be said in this house'

[boreal ingot]

oh, it's this as well. And it can be a verb, to ellipse

[gaunt mango]

looking back now, "the little money i had" or "what little money i had" works best

[gaunt mango]

oh i see

ellipsis

[boreal ingot]

example would be

You have abysmal punctuation, and I, spelling.

where 'have' and 'abysmal' are ellipsed from the second clause

[gaunt mango]

my google just shows me this so i was so confused

even when looking up ellipsis^

i think 'omitted' is a friendlier word to say

[boreal ingot]

well, yea, look at wiktionary. For some reason google doesn't show the verb to ellipse, but it does show the noun ellipsis

[boreal ingot]

Elided? Would that work?

I use elide for sounds, and ellipse for parts of a sentence, normally

[gaunt mango]

from googles def, elided doesn't really work for words

[boreal ingot]

I suppose omit is more general

[gaunt mango]

im saying omitted is just a little more friendly because a lot of english speakers who don't regularly study words don't use ellipsed and would think it's an ellipses or ellipsis

like you saw it caught me off guard too, but to be fair i don't study a lot of words in my freetime, only a little

[boreal ingot]

Isn't 'ellipses' just the plural of 'ellipsis'

but yeah that makes sense

I guess it's not the most common of words

[gaunt mango]

oh oops i didn't even realize i typed that lol

[boreal ingot]

so it absloutly doesn't mean 'money like what I had', right?

Sorry we got quite sidetrackled with the 'ellipsed' thing 😅

I just know 'such' can mean 'like'

[gaunt mango]

if you mean where the author is talking about money they had, then yeah the text is referring to that

in the text it seems that the author was describing how he had a little money, and he spent more than he probably should

[boreal ingot]

Yea that is what they were saying I believe, but normally 'such' expresses how 'big' something is, not how small

So I don't see how that meaning works there

but if I were to say

With money like what I had, I was spending way more than i should have
that would make sense I think

[gaunt mango]

it's mostly just context

[boreal ingot]

That's why I'm guessing such meant 'like'

[gaunt mango]

such doesn't have to mean big or small because such doesn't mean big or small in the first place

when the author says "more money than i ought" they are saying they spent more money that they really should have, so that gives the reader the hint that "such" means a little

"such great wealth you have acquired"

(large wealth)

"such money that i had"

(out of context, but in context it means small amount of money) [idk i can't think of any good full context examples srz]

[boreal ingot]

I see thank you lots

Sorry for the onslaught of questions lol

[gaunt mango]

no its fine that's what this channel is for anyways

plus i learn stuff to

ellipsed

and elided too i don't hear that one

[boreal ingot]

Oh elided is more of a phonology word I believe

[gaunt mango]

although it's used about the same as ellipsed

(according to google ngram viewer)

[boreal ingot]

So yea,I wouldn't expect those not interested in phonology to really know it

[boreal ingot]

I see

[acoustic geyser]

What does less direct mean

[boreal ingot]

not going straight to the point

saying something in a roundabout way

[acoustic geyser]

So whats different?
I would imagine/think/advise/etc,...
I imagine/think/advise/etc,....

[boreal ingot]

usually when you say something directly (honestly and without going around the point) it can be seen as a bit rude, so people often add these extra words to soften what they mean. Saying something in the past tense makes it less straight to the point, and as a result less perceivedly rude

[boreal ingot]

just has a more polite contemplative tone when you add 'would'

same thing with 'should, though that is quite uncommon these days

[boreal ingot]

"No. Heaven knows what the objects of his studies are. But here we are, and you must form your own impressions about him."

'the objects of his studies', does this mean the purpose? I believe I've heard 'object' can mean 'objective'

"How are you?" he said cordially, gripping my hand with a strength for which I should hardly have given him credit. "You have been in Afghanistan, I perceive."

What does the part in bold italics mean?

I believe he's saying the grip was weak? Like, 'I could hardly compliment the strength he used in that hand shake' (cuz it was so little)

is this correct?

looking further into it, it seems to mean 'which I didn't expect of him'

Could someone give other examples where 'give credit for' means this?

[vivid bridge]

Should I say: here is it
Or
Here it is
To piont to something

And what is the best method to learn vocabulary without forgetting them? and how to think in english?

[crimson vortex]

"Here it is" is correct

We place a verb before a subject (noun or pronoun) mainly when dealing with questions

[crimson vortex]

But "here it is" is not the case

[crimson vortex]

For me personally, the best way to memorize words was writing them in a simple text file with translation in my native language. For time to time, I would open the file and revise the vocabulary.

[crimson vortex]

"How to think in english" is a matter of one's proficiency in English. In my view, thinking in a foreign language is a result of a tremendous amount of regular practice in all fields (speaking, listening, writing) and deep knowledge in this subject

[compact elbow]

what's the difference between boundless and unbounded?
"Many natural remedies are beneficial to patients but often doctors are unaware of the "unbounded" possibilities offered by alternative medicines". I wrote boundless but it was wrong.

[abstract osprey]

maybe a similar difference between limitless and loose/untied?

judging only the words alone, not sure in this context

I think if you write boundless sounds more like the benefits of natural remedies are infinite, and it's not true, there is a limit

unbounded sounds more like it's referring to the unknown effects, those outside the boundaries/group of the known effects

[boreal ingot]

that's the subject tho ?

Also, the subject was already mentioned, and it doesn't seem to me that 'object' is referring to that

I see, thanks

so it's like

I hardly would have given any credit to the idea of him having such strenght

that makes sense

thank you again

[boreal ingot]

here's another sentence from the same book where 'object' is used oddly

I believe in both cases it means objective

but I need someone to confirm/deny it :p

[abstract osprey]

I googled it a bit and it only made it a bit more puzzling xD

in the first one, based on a quick research, I would say in this context the subject of study would be a disease or mutation, the subjects people or zombies haha, and the object of study is the effect of a drug or something like that, that is being observed and studied

and I would even go a bit further and say the objective is not the object, the objective/goal is what they want to do with the information acquired on this whole experiment, do they want to suppress something? are they trying to enhance something? are they trying to reproduce it?

the second sentence:

personA ambushes personB to do something (objective/goal) to observe the effects (object of study) of whatever happened to personB

the meaning in this second one is a bit more blurred to me, but that would be my guess

[abstract osprey]

I would love some confirmation (or correction) as well hehe

[boreal ingot]

I don't understabd the distinction your stating is present between object and objective

i just wanna know if 'object' means 'goal' in the two screenshots I sent

[cloud badge]

Object here means point or reason. An objective is a plan. The object of an objective is to attain a goal. So, object can be used as 'reason' or 'point'. And the subject is the one who acts upon the object.

[boreal ingot]

Objective doesn't mean plan afaik, it means goal

I was really just asking if that meaning is shared by 'object'

The two sentences Ive shown suggest that

But I am not sure

Here are the sentences

[cloud badge]

Well yeah i mean, you kind of need a plan to have a goal.

Ok I'll look at the sentences

[boreal ingot]

not really? Your goal is [x] and your plan to get that goal is [y], they're seperate things

[abstract osprey]

isn't plan just a series of goals?

or steps

[cloud badge]

Ok sure, that is besides the point i made though.

[boreal ingot]

what is your point

objective isnt plan, object is reason? ''The object of an objective is to attain a goal' I have no idea what any of this means

[cloud badge]

Object in both of those sentences mean 'reason' or 'point'. Not goal, that's the difference between object and objective.

The point of a going after a goal is to achieve it.

[boreal ingot]

I mean you can replace object with objective there and it seems to work

[cloud badge]

Aka the object of an objective is to succeed

No you can't

[boreal ingot]

Merriam Webster has a thing

they seem pretty much the same, dk

[cloud badge]

The objective is to attain the oil fields, but the reason why they sieze the oil fields is the object. It's a little different.

But hard to explain

[abstract osprey]

hmm, then I leaned to much on the academic meaning of object maybe influenced by the context being some kind of experiment?

I think I bounced between reason and means and made a confusion, something like that

[cloud badge]

i think you were on the right track though

[cloud badge]

Especially here. The objective was to do the thing and study the effects, the object was to learn from the results.

And that's very close to what you said, at least i think, if i understood it correctly

[boreal ingot]

I still don't get it

[cloud badge]

Hm well, what is a goal to you. Like your definition of goal.

[boreal ingot]

idk, smth I want to attain or reach

that requires some amount of work

[cloud badge]

Ok, so, the objective is the effort and everything. The object is the reason behind it.

The objective is the thing you want to get and the object is the reason you want to get it.

[stuck wraith]

No, the objective is the purpose, or goal, or motivation. The reason behind the effort

For example, if I have a job interview the objective is impressing the interviewer and getting the job

[boreal ingot]

Idk anymore :p

[stuck wraith]

Yeah I'm not great with other languages, but English I can do

[boreal ingot]

Are all these fine?

The object of my learning English is to be able to communicate with others
The objective of my learning English is to be able to communicate with others

My object in learning English is to communicate with others
My objective in learning English is to communicate with others

My object is to communicate with others
My objective is is to communicate with others

[stuck wraith]

No, only objective.

[boreal ingot]

Object can mean objective though, can't it?

Here are two examples from a book Im reading

[stuck wraith]

Personally I would dispute the second one, and in the first it's not synonymous with objective

The objective of your studies is not the thing you are studying, it is to become educated

[cloud badge]

The objective is impressing the interviewer but the object is obtaining the job.

[stuck wraith]

I would disagree with the second part. The objective is obtaining the job, the object of studying for the interview is the interview

[boreal ingot]

But there 'object' doesn't mean 'what you're studying' does it?

it means why he's doing studies

[cloud badge]

No that would be the subject

[boreal ingot]

yea

or the subjects

well the subject would be the topic and the subjects would be the studied people/other particpents

[stuck wraith]

In that image? Yes it does. They question if the object of his studies is medicine

[boreal ingot]

Idk Im understanding it as 'god knows why he does his studies'

[stuck wraith]

Well, I won't argue with you

[cloud badge]

I don't know if the etymology will help but it was interesting to me

[boreal ingot]

I can see there's a difference between 'Object' and 'Objective' cuz

My object is to build a camp
doesn't work but
My objective is to build a camp
does. But in other sentences they're interchangable
My object/objective in coming here is to build a camp

[stuck wraith]

I think it does (love Kyuss btw), an object is a thing placed in front of you. An objective relates to the things in front of you

[cloud badge]

Hm IDK, id say the objective is the building of the camp and the object is the reason why you want to have the camp.

[cloud badge]

ooh kyuss fan :o awesome ^-^ fav album?

[boreal ingot]

I have no idea what this distinction is but I hate it

[cloud badge]

Yeah 😅 very hard for me to explain sorry

[abstract osprey]

we have to observe one thing...

context

the first one is literally an experiment isn't it?

object can have a different meaning in this case

and maybe the writer wasn't very clear

heavens knows what the objects of his studies are. But here we are, and you must form your own impressions about him.

objects there meaning the things he is doing / dealing with doesn't sound out of context

when you have that:

"The subject of study is the topic that is being investigated, while the object of study is the specific thing that is being observed or analyzed.

For example, in a study of the effects of climate change on plant growth, the subject of study would be climate change, while the object of study would be plant growth.

In another example, in a study of the behavior of rats in mazes, the subject of study would be the behavior of rats, while the object of study would be the mazes.

The subject of study is the broader concept, while the object of study is the specific thing that is being investigated within the context of the subject of study.

Subject of study - The topic that is being investigated.

Object of study - The specific thing that is being observed or analyzed within the context of the subject of study.

Follow me for more"

[stuck wraith]

Had to go and check. It's Blues

[cloud badge]

^-^ awesome.

[acoustic geyser]

I wonder what's the difference between
As a commander of the Royal Navy
As a commander of Royal Navy

[cloud badge]

The is a definite article and it indicates that the noun (Royal Navy) is unique and is already known about or has been mentioned. There's only some cases where there would be no article, like, if in the second sentence, Royal Navy was the name of someone or somewhere.

[bitter hill]

https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/nouns-proper.php

Some types of proper nouns use the definite article and some don't. I think military forces fall under the type where you include the definite article. Your second example only makes sense if Royal Navy is the name of some group or organization that does not refer the military force

[verbal heron]

@boreal ingot I've found in the dictionary that ‘object’ can also refer to something a person studies

In that case, ‘heaven knows what the objects of his studies are’ makes sense.

[orchid echo]

Hi

What do you say in this situation: for example: your are gonna go out with your friend so arrange up , you take bath, change clothes etc. what is the verb for this

[verbal heron]

get the things ready?

[keen mantle]

27.How about .......... on a boat trip
A) taking
B) being taken
C) to take
D) be taking

[orchid echo]

@verbal heron isn't there like a phrasal verb your guys use, im thinking i forgot what it was

[abstract osprey]

getting ready?

[keen mantle]

Get going, Dress up, Change into, Look forward to, Fix up, Head out, and Hang out?

[trail slate]

What's the difference between bauble and ornament??

[boreal ingot]

I'm almost certain they meant purpose of/overall reason for his studies. The surrounding content strongly suggests that, since they were talking about how he's very odd and no one really knows why he does what he does when he isn't even a medical student or a proper chemist

If you'd like more context, this is from A Study in Scarlet part 1 chapter 1

[boreal ingot]

B :p

[acoustic geyser]

Get this man

[acoustic geyser]

Is Army counted as an organisation?

[warm rampart]

@hoary lichen 🤤

[hoary lichen]

i nearly dmed you about the ping

before reading it

"here we go!"

[warm rampart]

LOL

[boreal ingot]

What's the English Helper role

[hoary lichen]

people can ping me for help

but that never happens

so its there for show

[boreal ingot]

Oh lol

I see

[hoary lichen]

@warm rampart Wht is the diffrence betweeen "your" and "you're"? I no what they mean but I can't spell them rite! Is it like, "to" and "too"?

Is there a way to lern english fast? I'm tring to lern it but I'm not very good at it.

[warm rampart]

dont worry kindred spirit

you'll find your way

i should be an english helper

[hoary lichen]

the guy wh ogave it to me left

youre on your own

[warm rampart]

bring him back

the chat needs more yappers

the english hub is not the same without him

[hoary lichen]

youre sounding an awful lot like jimmy

[warm rampart]

that was the INTENTION

[boreal ingot]

make the accusative specially marked again
Have I used 'specially' properly?

Context, I was complaining about how the accusative case and the genitive case are both marked by the suffix '-n' in Finnish but they're both called the genitive for some reason? (Don't ask me, I don't get it), then someone explained that the accusative suffix used to be '-m' but then a sound change happened that made it '-n'. So I responded with the sentence above.

I'm almost certain it's not supposed to be 'especially', but I'm not sure if my use of 'specially' is correct.

[flat rune]

https://youtu.be/zUC9wmU0zIM?si=98z_2coM2eUNKNBr

[boreal ingot]

uh, this is more of a #🗃｜resources thing

[bitter hill]

Maybe 'distinctly' or 'uniquely' would be more fitting

[boreal ingot]

yea I did think of 'distinctly', but I'm more wondering why 'specially' wouldn't work

I mean
special marking for the accusative case -> the accusative case is specially marked

Idk if that makes sense

[bitter hill]

So basically it's like 'make the accusative case marked in a special manner or special way again', but this makes it more ambiguous and possibly subjective depending on which definition you understand it as

It technically could work but it seems like an unconventional use of it

[boreal ingot]

How is it ambiguous if I may ask

[bitter hill]

It's too late to properly think so I'll answer after I wake up

[boreal ingot]

alrighty

[acoustic geyser]

Hello

Is informal English mostly contraction as gonna, aint,etc...?

[boreal ingot]

Informal English isn't just about contractions. People tend to bend grammar, use slang, not properly punctuate, etc., but, yes, contractions are more informal than formal

Although there are some old-fashioned or slightly formal contractions, such as 'needn't', 'mustn't', 'mightn't', and even 'I've' when used for possession! (e.g., 'I've a lot of things to do')

[abstract osprey]

it's more in how you address people, right? kind of... your tone towards them

I don't know if tone... but... the way, you know?

[boreal ingot]

Well the tone of a formal text does quite contrast with that of an informal one, if that's what you mean

It would be considered inappropriate, I believe, to speak informally in a more formal context, and likewise, you might be seen in a bad light if you speak formally in an informal context

Stupid social stuff

It's a difference in register. Surely your native language has such a distinction

[abstract osprey]

yeah, it's that after I typed I realised that you can answer to someone in a more kind tone or in a more firm tone in both, informal and formal way

in other words, you can raise or lower your tone in both, a formal and informal conversation

[boreal ingot]

by tone do you mean like.. how your voice sounds?

Or how harsh you are?

Or if youre being informal or formal

I meanI don't think you can speak informally formally I don't see how that last one would work

Ye I have been confused

[abstract osprey]

my bad 😆 let me explain

the tone you are addressing someone doesn't dictate if the conversation is formal or informal

maybe you are addressing an issue with your superior and you are a bit annoyed, and the person says something like "I don't like you speaking to me in that tone of voice", it's still a formal conversation

it's not really related to formal or informal, I made a confusion there

[boreal ingot]

Ye I see

Yeah I would imagine you can be stern, annoyed, demanding, etc. in any register

[abstract osprey]

yeah

[edgy nova]

my bad let me explain
[12:06 PM]
the tone you are addressing someone doesn't dictate if the conversation is formal or informal
[12:11 PM]
maybe you are addressing an issue with your superior and you are a bit annoyed, and the person says something like "I don't like you speaking to me in that tone of voice", it's still a formal conversation
[12:12 PM]
it's not really related to formal or informal, I made a confusion there

[boreal ingot]

?

[compact elbow]

has anyone ever delved into international phonetic alphabet for pronunciation? Is it worth it?

[boreal ingot]

Sort of worth it yea

Im not very well-versed but I can sort of read it

when ppl represent the differences between American and British pronuncitation pronuncitation phonetecly that can be confusing but it's a good way to know the differences

[verbal heron]

They call them “pompous” 💀

[boreal ingot]

I found it helpful, especially when trying to say words from langs I don't speak. While not perfect, having IPA can be a good way to approximate the pronuncitation

It's also really useful when talking about how words are said

like, you don't have to use this type of writing: '"mai-nyoot" not "min et"'

you can be more exact

But I don't know if it's veerryyy useful, I'd say there are better things to learn

[verbal heron]

Idk how but it really does help a lot with recognizing words during a conversation

[boreal ingot]

yea?

[verbal heron]

It may be helpful to learn the pronunciation of words of other languages provided that the sounds of the letters can be represented with IPA

[verbal heron]

If someone uses formal words in each informal context, then they are sometimes referred to as “pompous” 💀

[boreal ingot]

wdym provided? There's symbols for every sound that is used in any language afaik

[boreal ingot]

yea

I don't get what you're trying to tell me 😭

Am I being taught the word pompous? Is that the goal :p

[cloud badge]

i think they mean that it might be good to learn the sounds of other languages letters because the ipa has many sounds that are not common or well represented in english or the english alphabet. and for the other thing, theyre advising you to not use too formal of words when speaking informally, because if you do use too many formal words, poeple might think you feel like you are better/smarter than other poeple.

[boreal ingot]

I mean, you don't have to learn the whole IPA, learn the symbols that are relevant to you

the orthography of languages can be quite irregular and inconsistent, and the ipa is much more uniform, so I'd say if you're truly only interested in how the language is pronounced, use IPA over the lang's own spelling

[verbal heron]

Yes but IPA cannot represent a letter like “স” (from a different language)

[boreal ingot]

But yeah, I like to look at IPA-letter charts, though, those can be useful when you're trying to get familiar with a language's letters tho, But even then, the aforementioned irregularity is going to be a factor

[boreal ingot]

it can represent how it sounds tho

The IPA isn't for the words it's for the sounds, afaik

[verbal heron]

Yes, by wording how they should be pronounced

[boreal ingot]

The IPA is just a tool for linguists to use when discussing the pronunciation of different languages. Cuz using the Latin alphabet or each language's script would be inaccurate or inefficient respectively. I don't think it really has to do with words at all

I'm a bit confused what your point is tbh 😅

[cloud badge]

By 'wording' they meant 'representing through speech' i believe. You can say that when you don't mean actual words.

[boreal ingot]

Idk what the disagreement is about lmao I just like the IPA cuz I don't have to learn a whole orthography to pronounce one word in another language

[cloud badge]

And i think their point is just that, leaning other languages letters helps as well as learning the ipa symbols haha

[boreal ingot]

yea if you're actually learning the language ofc learn the writing system it uses :p The ipa is useful for giving you exactly what sounds to make that's it

[cloud badge]

And i believe your the only one sensing a disagreement cuz i don't really see one from their side tbh xp but correct me if im wrong @verbal heron

[cloud badge]

They're saying that learning sounds of other languages you don't speak can help too because not every sound is represented in the ipa

[boreal ingot]

ipa* not api, but like, I'm pretty sure any sound used in human languages is represented in the IPA, and if you want to be more exact, there are many many diacritics to adjust the position/manner of a sound

[cloud badge]

Sheesh, my phone autocurrected, lordy lord. Im too used to talking about computer stuff i guess.

[boreal ingot]

it's just an alphabet that acts as the standard way of representing sounds for linguistis, so ofc, they have a way to represent all, or at least almost all, sounds that are used in languages

[boreal ingot]

ye autocorrect suckss

[cloud badge]

You're being pedantic, what they said wasn't wrong, it was just in addition to what you said. I think this should be dropped.

But yes looking at all the ways of representing sounds and letters can be helpful to people. No system covers everything.

[verbal heron]

Now you have pushed me to confusion lmao

[boreal ingot]

ngl I'm not sure what they meant. Ofc learning the language's way of writing stuff is useful, like, I never spoke against that, but I think they meant that the IPA can't represent all sounds, which I just said isn't true

we are basically arguing over what someone else said tho, so I think the only way to solve it is if Vampire clarified what they meant lol

[cloud badge]

The ipa does not represent that letter vampire shared, and several others that i know of

So learning from a language instead is helpful in those cases

Simple as that

[boreal ingot]

I mean, do you know what sound that letter makes? becuase looking it up it seems to be the 'sh' sounds and the 'o' sound in some langs, while it's 's' and 'a' in other langs

[verbal heron]

What I meant to say was that when you are learning a new language having different script from the scripts you have seen, then IPA can help you understand the sound of the words if the language supports IPA or the source has shown the phonetic sounds of tge words of the particular language you are inclined to learn. @cloud badge @boreal ingot

[cloud badge]

Ah i slightly misunderstood, but still, there are a few sounds not properly represented in there, i watched a YouTube video about them, maybe i can find it, it was really interesting.

[boreal ingot]

Oh yeah that's all true. It's unlikely that the IPA doesn't support the lang, but it's more likely you won't find IPA transcriptions of the words in the lang. It can be useful for learning the letters if there are good resources for sure

[boreal ingot]

Do send it if you find it, that sounds intriguing

[verbal heron]

Schwa is one of the most useful symbols imo

[abstract osprey]

I just stick to the good old basics you find in every language course/book/etc: vowel pronunciation, consonant pronunciation, the combination of vowel and consonant, etc... and then pick the pronunciation details on the fly, with practice, as I listen

translators also have the Listen button

and sometimes shows this as well, like -> resource -> ˈrēˌsôrs (this is what you are talking about, right?)

if not enough there are always platforms like Forvo

[verbal heron]

Rather than always looking for the pronunciation, one may find it beneficial learning the IPA. Standard dictionaries always represent words with IPA.

[abstract osprey]

indeed

[cloud badge]

Alright so unfortunately I'm not 100% sure which video it was mentioned in but i know it was one from this channel, i just don't have time to go through them all sorry but they're all pretty interesting, at least to me

(And yes I've seen them all lmao )

[verbal heron]

And bilingual dictionaries often represent the pronunciation of words incorrectly, even though they know that they can't but help represent that with the script of that particular language, more like transliteration.

[boreal ingot]

Oh Dr. Geoff, I love his videos

[verbal heron]

However time it takes, you will learn those properly but you know it will prolong the process. If you spend a handsome amount of time in learning the sounds, when will you start enhancing your vocabulary! You might get bored by then

[boreal ingot]

I mean, the closest you get to not having a proper symbol is voiceless nasals, some voiceless trills, and dental stops, but those can be represented with diacritics, just not a dedicated symbol. The IPA can pretty well represent phonemically distinct sounds in any given language afaik if you use diacritics. Phonetically though is a different matter, you have to use whatever symbol best approximates the sound and add diacritics to make it more accurate. I think it's a pretty inclusive system though

I'm no expert on it but I've never had any trouble representing sounds with it

Any trouble I have had has been becuase of my lack of proper understanding of the system and the position of my tongue and not having the ear to pick out the sound rather than a fault of the system itself

[boreal ingot]

I don't think learning the IPA should be one's first priority when learning a language, but if one should happen to have a pre-existing understanding of it, then it would help decently

But yeah, you shouldn't get stuck on the sounds anyway

They aren't the main thing

[verbal heron]

This message was for the person who asked whether learning IPA would be worth it lmao

[boreal ingot]

Maybe? Could you link to it

[verbal heron]

We are not getting the point of each other, so we better leave this topic herei

[boreal ingot]

ye lol

[abstract osprey]

I'd say nothing tops having experiences as close as possible to real scenarios, the rest are just tools to help you

so, to me, time spent learning IPA vs time spent actually talking to someone? the latter for sure

[cloud badge]

Its probably those cases mostly that learning the sound from the language could be helpful. Thas all i was sayin, sometimes ipa is easier, sometimes foreign words are easier understanding niche regional specific accent sounds and what not.

[boreal ingot]

ENGLISH QUESTION (lesss stop debating like Vampire siadd)

https://youtu.be/L0q2DpQGktM?si=XT08UF_d9WQbywav&t=149

You see, this redstone dust is parallel with the lever, so it powers this piston first.

Is this really parallel? I don't see how that's parallel, they're on the same line, not on two lines that never cross? :p

[verbal heron]

They are indeed quite useful if the user knows how to use it, however, “schwa” is one of the most useful symbols

as it frequently appears

[abstract osprey]

I don't doubt it

[boreal ingot]

Oh, I really don't think that's what was meant from the overall context, but ngl I got tired of debating that :p

[cloud badge]

Its parallel in the Y plane. Not the lever itself, but the thing holding the lever. They go in the same direction but dont overlap

[boreal ingot]

ohh that helps a lot lmao, thank you

I remember the discussion was about two things, 1. object and objective aren't the same, 2. in the sentence I provided, what does object mean?
I said I think it means objective. But since we couldn't come to an agreement as to the difference between object an objective, let me rephrase:

I think that in that sentence it means 'purposes of, reasons for, that which makes him motivated to do' his studies

Is this accurate?

[abstract osprey]

we would really need a wider view of the picture to understand better the context

[cloud badge]

If we break down the roots of the word object and objective, we get thing-throw and thing-throw-in service/relation to. So, object is the thing you throw. Objective is what serves to throw the thing. And the subject is the one throwing the thing. Maybe that helps clarify the differences

[abstract osprey]

like I said.... context changes meanings, like putting words together

object is different than object of study

just like subject is not the same thing as subject of study

I'm not saying who is right, just saying we have to pay attention to that, not just the literal meaning of the words alone

[cloud badge]

But the object of study is the thing youre studying. The object of studyING, though, is to learn.

[abstract osprey]

and the text says 'objects of his studies'

[cloud badge]

Yeah, that's the object of A (or his) study, which would be the thing he is attempting to learn, the reason for his studies

[abstract osprey]

then they are morally judging him because of what he is trying to accomplish with his studies, right?

[boreal ingot]

This is the whole context. I really hope this is enough lol:

A friend was telling doctor Watson about this fellow, Sherlock. He was saying how he's an odd man, very interested in chemestry, and with such a strong want for knowledge it can be scary, and he mentions the fact that even though he uses the hospital's lab, he isn't a medical student (surprisingly). He warns Watson that this Sherlock is very eccentric and a bit much and mentions that in some of his experemints, Sherlock would beat the dead subjects in the dissection room with a stick to tell for how long after death you can still form bruses. Watson remarks how surprising it is that he's not a medical student despite this strong want for knowledge (quote, 'And yet you say he is not a medical student?' unquote), to wich the friend says 'No. Heaven knows what the objects of his studies are. But here we are, and you must form your own impressions about him.'
They then meet up with Sherlock.
Throughout the chapter, Watson keeps describing how curious he is about why this man does what he does:

As the weeks went by, my interest in him and my curiosity as to his aims in life,
gradually deepened and increased.

The reader may set me down as a hopeless busybody, when I confess how much this
man stimulated my curiosity, and how often I endeavoured to break through the
reticence which he showed on all that concerned himself.

[cloud badge]

Yeah, he's saying 'heaven knows what the point of his work is, nobody knows why hes studying all these things'

[boreal ingot]

so is this accurate? ^

I think that in that sentence it means 'purposes of, reasons for, that which makes him motivated to do' his studies

let's forget the word objective

as I don't understand teh distenction between it and object

[abstract osprey]

not wrong then

but now with more context seems like they are just curious

[abstract osprey]

this

[boreal ingot]

So it seems I overall understood it properly :p That's great. There was so much discussion about this lmao

[cloud badge]

It's a confusing and abstract word 😅yeah

[abstract osprey]

@cloud badge so... would it be safe to swap objects for goals? 😆

[cloud badge]

No

[abstract osprey]

lol

[cloud badge]

You don't need a goal to have a reason

[abstract osprey]

intention? then?

[cloud badge]

You could just like studying, with no goal or intention in sight

Like me lolol

[abstract osprey]

hmm....so that's what they are curious about, his goals or intentions why he does what he does

better? xD

[cloud badge]

Yeah, when you add the ive, you're saying 'whatever serves or relates to the object'

[cloud badge]

Yeah exactly, but knowing him, he probably doesn't even have many, hes just toiling cuz he loves it

And it might help him later

[abstract osprey]

@cloud badge it's clear now, thx 🙏 😅

[boreal ingot]

I'll never get it

lmfao

this is complicated

thanks for the explanation

[cloud badge]

I have a question I've been wondering about, in American English people say 'i want to go home' but, aside from home i can't think of any other instances where you can drop the 'to' when going to a place. Does anyone know any other examples of this?

[abstract osprey]

only if you start with the action

let's return home

let's go home

but.... including the I want... complicated

[cloud badge]

I mean other places besides 'home'

Like you can't say 'i want to go theater' 'i went beach' etc

I learned about this in my latin class and my teacher posed us the same question with extra credit for anyone who could give an answer and nobody ever did.

[abstract osprey]

yeah... that reaches the limit of my vocabulary or even grammar 😅

[boreal ingot]

It seems 'home' is an adverb in this sense. I can think of 'thither' and 'where [x] is'

[abstract osprey]

can't you say drop by?

you don't use the to

[verbal heron]

That's not a distinct place tho

[cloud badge]

Exactly

[boreal ingot]

Yea places aren't typically adverbs as far as I know

'thither' is the closest I can think of

[cloud badge]

I think about this every now and then and it irks my mind haha. I guess it's just a special word or something but finding another example would be so cool.

[abstract osprey]

yeah... can't think of anything

[cloud badge]

No worries

[boreal ingot]

ye neither can I, sorry for that

[verbal heron]

'thither' is vague

[boreal ingot]

Yea true

It's not exactly what she wanted, just teh closest I could get to it

[verbal heron]

Did you never ask anyone that question irl?

[cloud badge]

thither is more like 'here' or 'there' no? thats not quite a definitive place, yeah.

[abstract osprey]

maybe because home is not actually a defined place with a defined purpose like a theatre, a school, a club, it's actually an idea... kind of - to return to the point of origin, return to base, something like that

drones have this Return to Home function

and home is wherever they took off

[verbal heron]

Still you shared what you knew

👍

[verbal heron]

Thither is more like "that way"

towards that direction

[boreal ingot]

it's 'to there'
I guess 'upstream' would work? 'I want to go upstream', or 'offstage' 'I want to go offstage'

The latter feels the closest, since it would meant 'to the place offstage', 'upstream' feels different tho

[verbal heron]

Is upstream used as an adverb here?

[boreal ingot]

ye

go upstream

[cloud badge]

true, idk, to me, since those have up and off (like to) its a lil cheaty but it does kind of work, thats the closest ive heard at least, cool c:

[boreal ingot]

actually, just looking at the list of locative adverbs in English that Wiktionary provides, I can spot 'overseas' and 'underground' which function similarly

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_locatives

glad to have somewhat helped anyway

[boreal ingot]

but all of them

have some preposition

in the word

so it is cheaty, as you said

[verbal heron]

I just remember reading in a grammar book that "home" is an adverb and that we do not use "to" with advers.In fact, home is used as a noun, a verb, an adjective, and s an adverb

[boreal ingot]

Oh that makes a lot of sense actually :p

Thank you :>

[verbal heron]

lol

[boreal ingot]

scary smiley

never use it

[cloud badge]

lol those fries are kinda scary too xD

[abstract osprey]

makes sense, when comparing home to other specific places home is on another category and actually have a more abstract meaning

[sage quail]

Home just happens to be an adverb as mentioned before, just in this particular case, it can also be a noun or an adjective. In the case of being an adverb, there's no need to use a preposition like you would for nouns.

The confusion seems to come from comparing an adverb to a noun.

I'm going home. (adverb)
I'm going to his home. (noun)

[abstract osprey]

so, only use preposition if home is a noun then

in a nutshell

it feels like home. (adjective?)

[cloud badge]

so, its basically the same as saying 'I'm homing' or 'I want to be homing' lol (which would be weird for anyhting besides like a pigeon or something haha)? huh thats so weird we dont use that form of the word instead.

[sage quail]

In this sentence, home is a noun.

[abstract osprey]

hmm, it was always confusing to me

[hoary lichen]

in this case it is still a noun on the above sentence

it’s just has an omitted “to”

that’s implied

[hoary lichen]

this is just a simile to relate what they are describing to their home

[boreal ingot]

It can be analysed both ways I believe

[hoary lichen]

if home is a direction then it’s an adverb

if it’s a destination it’s a noun

[boreal ingot]

Adverb would be the more common way it's looked at, but there are those who view it as a prepositionless prepositional phrase

I'm not sure it's an adverb in stuff like 'I'm home'. It sounds more like an adjective, but it is an adverb in like 'Go home' or 'arrive home', etc.

[tough current]

Hi all! Im new here and I had kind of a big question

I was an adult educator for several years for English students, and I have a friend who's somewhat illiterate. I'm wondering if anyone has any idea where I could find lesson plans geared toward teaching adults English? But, not English as a Second Language, merely improving literacy proficiency.

honestly, i dont even know if this is the right channel lol. If not, I apologize.

[sage quail]

I always double check on principle and there are at least 4 different English dictionaries which consider home an adverb as well, plus two well-known translation sites which also mention its adverbial use. The best way to know what nature a word is to either ask the appropriate wh- question or replace a word with another to check whether it's correct.

https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/eb/qa/The-Grammatical-Difference-Between-Home-and-House This might help understand a bit.

[hoary lichen]

traditional grammar perspective:

“home” is a noun (destination), and the preposition “to” is implied but omitted.
functional grammar perspective:
“home” is an adverb (modifying the verb “am going” by specifying direction).

[hoary lichen]

i recommend AQA GCSE (O Level) and A Level English Language resources

they’re geared for teaching english analysis and proficiency to students aged 14-18 so it can be some help

they’re split 50/50 into reading and writing (the reading is about analyzing specific lingual and structural effects and the writing is about a story, description or non-fictional piece of writing with a provided prompt)

the end goal is the required level of knowledge of english to leave secondary school in england

[sage quail]

If you have any link/source that would give some details to this I'd appreciate it.

[boreal ingot]

while reading around I found this stackExchange answer https://english.stackexchange.com/a/511194/602128

I thought it was useful

[tough current]

That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for! Thank you very much for the information.

[boreal ingot]

idk how credible it is, but it has 10 upvotes lmao

[bitter hill]

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/429853/what-is-the-part-of-speech-of-home-in-the-sentence-go-home

'Home' in this usage is confusingly derived not from the nominative but from the accusative, essentially meaning 'to home' but in OE isoformal with the nominative. This gives rise to a rarity in that he preposition 'to' is never appended even in modern English. // "Is John home yet?" similarly derives from the OE dative form, but though once spelled differently, the word form has been subsumed in Modern English isoformally with the nominative; but 'at home' is probably more common than the prepositionless variant. // Your 'home' is a relict; I stick at 'directional particle'‡.

[hoary lichen]

i don’t have any other than hearsay from a book that costs £80 and my own understanding of the history of english

hence the traditional usage

[boreal ingot]

I thought the dative was for the receiver of an action. The home isn't really receiving the going, how odd that it was in the dative, though I suppose that does explain why no preposition is used with it

[hoary lichen]

If "home" is where "I am going", then "home" is the object of the verb. For it to be an adverb, it would have to modify "going", which it doesn't (with "I am going quickly", "quickly" clearly modifies how the "going" is carried out).

[boreal ingot]

What does isoformal mean tho, looking it up it seems to have to do with chemistry

[boreal ingot]

it's not the object cuz 'go' is not transitive

if it were transitive you could say 'I go the beach' and it would be grammatical

[hoary lichen]

the way i see it home is not a direction but a place synonymous with the place i live in. we say “i am going home” as an exception, since you can write or say "i am going to school" or "i am going to church" which are equally lacking specification

hence why i adopt the traditional view

[boreal ingot]

adverbs can tell you where something happanes, also, locative adverb is a whole category

[hoary lichen]

which is cited in that book i mentioned earlier but can’t link because it’s £80

Quirk, R., Greenbaum, S., Leech, G., & Svartvik, J. (1985). A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language. Longman.

[boreal ingot]

Like hither, thither, offstage, thence, they tell you from/to/at where an action took place

They're adverbs but don't directly affect the manner of the verb

just provide location

'home' is acting like that

[hoary lichen]

how i see:

Grammarians often consider “home” a noun when it refers to a place. In “I’m going home,” “home” could be analyzed as a destination, comparable to “I’m going to the park” or “I’m going to my house.” The implied preposition “to” is omitted, but the sentence structure remains consistent with other uses of nouns as objects of a verb or preposition.

Many English usage guides explain that “home” functions as a noun when it is the destination of motion. (e.g., Quirk et al., A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language).

[boreal ingot]

the elided preposition interpretation would explain 'I am home', since you can have a prepositional phrase there after 'am' but not really an adverb afaik. But then that brings the question of when it can be elided, under what conditions? Does 'I seemed home when she arrived, little did she know, I had snuck out and left a decoy' work? Since that's just an elided 'at' there? What governs when and when not a preposition can be omitted?

[bitter hill]

🤔 I don't think that's what Quirk's cgel says

[iron mason]

guys I need a bit of help, im preparing for my exams(University) im confused between relative clauses and noun clauses, for example, sometimes a noun clause may function as an appositive how is this different to relative clause. also what is the function of a relative clause?

[hoary lichen]

position = noun
direction = adverb

hence the two interpretations

[boreal ingot]

so 'here' is a noun ?

[hoary lichen]

home refers to a tangible location (place of residence), here does not and is treated differently

[boreal ingot]

I don't see hwo 'here' being deictic would make it work any differently from 'home'. They both are used in expressions like 'I am home/here' and 'Come home/here'

[hoary lichen]

home is where i live

here is where

its abstract

[boreal ingot]

here is where I am

hoem is where I live

theyre both relative to the speaker

I was justabou to say it could be argued that home itself is also deictic

which imo renders it functionally identical to 'here' unless I'm overlooking smth

[hoary lichen]

im in a game bear with me

[iron mason]

guys what is the function of relative clause

[bitter hill]

Considering both CGELs as well as online dictionaries classify this particular usage of home as a particle or adverb, I think I'll stick with that

[iron mason]

nvm its a noun modifier

[hoary lichen]

1 of 2 my friend 1 of 2

[bitter hill]

I've been looking through Quirk's and I can't find anything supporting the analysis that home in 'I'm going home' or 'V-home' is a noun. If anything, I only see the opposite. Does the source you quoted provide any specific page numbers?

I just wanna clarify, are you saying that because 'I'm going home' is a reduction of a deeper structure 'I'm going [to my] home', we treat 'home' as a noun either way? If so, I think it's important to make a distinction between its function internally and externally. Plus, most of the usual online dictionaries include both positional and directional interpretations under the adverb form of home. I also checked Cambridge Grammar of English from McCarthy and Carter and it seems to follow this convention.

Edit: I think I found something relevant to your point in a Garner book, but it's more nuanced than you make it out to be

Adverbial objective/noun is a pretty name

[bitter hill]

@boreal ingot

[boreal ingot]

That makes sense, thanks you.

But what about in stuff like 'I am home'?

In this case it's also an elided preposition, no?

Or is that an adjective sense of 'home'?

Because usually I don't think adverbs follow to be

[bitter hill]

Yeah same sense

I am [at] home.

[boreal ingot]

Ye, I see. Thank you :>

Iss funny how this whole thing came from Red asking for words that work like 'home' and don't need a 'to' before them lol

[slow palm]

Don't go too much deep inside grammar bro that's leads you to confusion

[boreal ingot]

That comment isn't really useful to the discussion

We're here to learn

[slow palm]

That's reality u can't escape that

Ur here for learning and fluency

[boreal ingot]

Yeah, so why are you saying not to think about grammar lol. But going deep into it we learn

[slow palm]

Bro i think u didn't understand my point

I'm saying that u should have focus on practice and vocab rather than rules

Therefore, grammatical rules have complexity, and confusion point

[boreal ingot]

Please do not call me 'Bro'. I'd prefer non-masculine terms of address

Anyway, everyone involved in that discussion is obviously already past that stage of learning the very basics and practicing. The discussion is entirely around a grammatical concept. I mean, the other two are natives Thanks for the advice, but this is less about mastering English and more about understanding its rules, as all participants are already fluent to a point where communication isn't an issue

[slow palm]

Ur native too ?

[boreal ingot]

No

[slow palm]

Ok then buddy I didn't know that sry ....

[boreal ingot]

No need to say sorry

[slow palm]

I'm non native so i thought they're might be that's why

[boreal ingot]

I'm nonnative too, but the people with whom I was talking about grammar were natives, yeah

It's just something I do out if a curiosity about how the language works, rather than something that's for the sake of improving my skills

[slow palm]

And I have know what u had taking about... grammatical rules, but and also I have face these grammatical rules complexity but still confused...

So that's becoz I said that statement

[boreal ingot]

It's cool

[slow palm]

Where r u from btw?

[boreal ingot]

I'd rather not give an exact country but I'm Arab

[chrome crest]

hi

[slow palm]

Ohh nice buddy

[slow palm]

Hi

[boreal ingot]

Well, I'll be heading off now

[chrome crest]

whats up guys

[slow palm]

Fine wby ?

[chrome crest]

fine thanks

[dense pulsar]

Hey
Can I both use whom and who in this sentence?

Sami, _______ I play football with, lives round the corner.

Sami, whom I play football with, lives round the corner.

Sami, who I play football with, lives round the corner.

[gaunt mango]

Who is for subjects (he/she/they)
Whom is for objects (him/her/them)

whom is correct here because Sami is the object of the action.

Most native speakers can interpret “who” and will use “who” for simplicity though

[boreal ingot]

Well, Sami isn't the object of the action, they're the object of the preposition 'with' I think

But ye the explanation is good, just thought I'd mention that tho

[crimson vortex]

Hello guys

I have been unable to understand the true meaning of "to proceed" for long time

Can anyone explain to me its different meanings and is it the same as "to continue"

[boreal ingot]

proceed means start

or move forward

So like, you'd use 'continue' when you stopped doing something and are satrting again

and you'd use proceed when you're starting to do something

[crimson vortex]

Okay, but when I sign in on some websites and the registration consists of several steps, then there's always a button "proceed" (suggests moving to the next step). Wouldn't it be more logical to name the button "continue"?